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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Evidence for coherent phonons
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 18:05:39 +1000
Organization: Improving
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In reply to  Jones Beene's message of Mon, 31 Mar 2003 14:18:53 -0800:
Hi,
[snip]

>From: "Robin van Spaandonk" 
>
>> http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?file=/nature/journal/v422/n6929/abs/nature01490_fs.html
>> is evidence for short term coherence in optical phonons in Bismuth.
>
>> Just the sort of thing that could lead to CF if we could produce the effect
>> in a D saturated cathode.
>
>
>This is yet another tentative link, or interesting cross-connection in a string of coincidence that may point to some explanation for certain CF mechanics.
>
>Bismuth is a very interesting material that becomes superconducting under high pressures or when alloyed. 

What I found the most interesting about the paper above is that the phenomenon takes place just before melting (phase change).

Regards,

R. van Spaandonk

When you are counting the dead, remember who voted
for the man that made it all possible.

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On Sun, 30 Mar 2003, hamdix wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Scott Little send me this link. See pages at http://www.acapitalist.com/
>
> Apparently a liquid is boiling when subjected to a magnetic field. That all. no more info.

I've found that to avoid wasting time, it's a good idea to apply the rule
"If it's being kept secret, then ignore it."

They don't say that the liquid is being heated.

Maybe it's full of suspended iron powder, and when the magnet is held
near, it starts visibly roiling as the iron is dragged to the side.

PS "Boiling" is defined as the production of gas bubbles.   If there are
no gas bubbles being produced, then he's misusing the term "boiling".



>
> Do you have guesses what it could be?
>
> Maybe it would be better to this guy is the boiling is sustained or not and what are the temperatures.
>
> Regards,
>
> hamdi ucar
>

(((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                            SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                            http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair
Seattle, WA  206-789-0775    unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci

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Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 14:00:39 -0800
From: Jones Beene <jonesb9 pacbell.net>
Subject: Fw: Evidence for coherent phonons
To: vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
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>From Frank Grimer (Forwarded):

>Ed Storms has countered that Electrolytic action, 
>or overpotential, does not produce "any actual pressure" 
>over about 1 atm. but OTOH,  the Italian researcher 
>Celani has gone to great lengths to equate actual 
>pressure with overpotential and states that 1:1 D2 
>gas loading is the indeed the real equivalent of 
>22,000 atm.

>http://www.memex.it/Fusione/Celani.htm

If Celani is right, as I believe him to be, then it 
follows that Beta-atmosphere partial vacua of minus 
22,000 atmospheres (approximately pF 7) exist. 
I believe that it is within these exotic regions, 
shielded from the external Beta-atmosphere
differential pressure of 22,000 atmospheres, 
that cold fusion takes place.

(see Infinite Energy, vol 8, issue 46, pp. 28-33)

>Now consider this: One effect of high pressure is 
>in "closing up" systems, thereby reducing entropy, 
>For example, a pressure of 12,000 atm. reduces the 
>entropy of potassium metal by 30 per cent. Pressure, 
>in many respects,  produces physical effects akin 
>to low temperature (one kilo-atmosphere can be 
>considered for some purposes roughly equivalent 
>to a temperature of 12.19ºK.).

Very interesting. Not just Cold but Absolutely 
Frigid. Perhaps we ought rename it triple F for 
Flipping Frigid Fusion.  ;-)

Frank Grimer

==============================================================

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This was URL posted by Hamdi the other day.
http://www.acapitalist.com/

A test tube or small flask partially filled with water, ethanol, or diethyl ether,
with iron filings on the bottom can be heated to expel the air and quickly corked and
allowed to cool to room temperature will probably boil when a strong magnet is brought
near the iron filings in the container.

Hmmm, a magnetic heat pipe SMOT.   :-)

Magnetocaloric Effect links:

 http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae488.cfm

http://www.ameslab.gov/News/Inquiry/fall97/bigchill.html

http://scidiv.bcc.ctc.edu/wv/08/0008-0013-vapor_pres.html

Magnetic cooling

Several teams in the U.S., China, Spain, the Netherlands, and Canada are working on
magnetic cooling, which could show up in refrigerators and in heating and
air-conditioning applications in about five years' time, according to Karl A.
Gschneidner Jr., senior metallurgist at Ames Laboratory. Gschneidner also is a
professor of materials science and engineering at Iowa State University, which
operates Ames Lab.

In the magnetic cooling process, a strong magnetic field is applied to a refrigerant,
such as gadolinium metal, aligning the spins of its unpaired electrons. This decreases
entropy and causes the refrigerant to warm up. When the magnetic field is removed, the
spins revert to a random orientation and the refrigerant cools back down. The stronger
the field, the greater the temperature change achieved. This behavior is termed the
magnetocaloric effect.

In 1997, Gschneidner and other researchers at Ames and at Milwaukee-based Astronautics
Corp. of America used a working model to demonstrate that magnetic refrigeration can
be commercially viable and competitive with gas-compression cooling technology.

In this early design, spheres of gadolinium metal are packed into a container about
half the height of a soda can. The container moves into a strong magnetic field,
heating up the gadolinium spheres. The heat is transferred to water flowing through
the container, and the water moves on to a hot heat exchanger--which could be cooling
fins on the back of a refrigerator, for example--where it releases this excess heat.

As the container of refrigerant moves out of the strong magnetic field, it cools off.
The cold refrigerant chills water moving through the container. The chilled water
continues on to a cold heat exchanger, where it pulls heat out of the object to be
cooled, such as the interior of a refrigerator. Antifreeze can be added to the water
for cooling temperatures below freezing, or the water can be replaced by helium gas
for extremely cold temperatures.

Regards,

Frederick


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr  1 15:55:57 2003
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Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 18:54:25 -0500
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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell mindspring.com>
Subject: OFF TOPIC 1918 flu pandemic versus SARS
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I am sorry to harp on bad news so often, but I find it a lot more 
interesting than good news, and much more revealing. Also, I live close to 
the CDC and I have a friend there, so I am following this story in some 
detail. Here is some information from the 1918 flu pandemic, from this and 
other sources:

http://www.stanford.edu/group/virus/uda/

The disease bore a striking similarity to SARS. Approximately 20% of the 
world population was infected, and 28% of U.S. population. I think the 
higher rate in the U.S. was caused by higher mobility.

People aged 20 - 40 were most vulnerable, just the opposite of most 
infections, and also similar to SARS.

The mortality rate was 2.5%. SARS is ~4%, but I doubt there is enough data 
to establish this with accuracy.

Worldwide, 20 to 40 million died. The toll was much higher than WWI. The 
population in 1918 was three times smaller than it is now.

The good news -- sort of -- is that a disease with a very high mortality 
rate that strikes quickly soon become extinct, just as the 1918 flu did. 
The victims die or recover completely and become immune before the disease 
can spread. The 1918 strain is probably extinct, but it may survive in 
avian populations. In 1997, in Hong Kong almost all poultry was slaughtered 
because of fear of avian infections that apparently killed two people.

The 1918 pandemic was one of my father's earliest memories.

As I said, a friend of mine is an influenza expert at the CDC, which is a 
mile away from here. I have not spoken with him lately, but he must be run 
ragged. The leading expert at the WHO who identified the disease, Dr. Carlo 
Urbani (46), died of the disease last week.

This sounds like a third-rate thriller, but from various sources and 
conversations, I believe it is not as scary as it looks. At least, not for 
first-world populations. I do not think viral pneumonia can spread through 
first-world populations the way it did in 1918. I was hospitalized with 
viral pneumonia several years ago. There was no cure, and there still is 
none, but powerful anti-viral drugs have been developed and some may be 
effective with SARS. I expect people are frantically testing them at this 
moment. Unfortunately, the head of the CDC, Dr. Julie Gerberding said 
Saturday: "We have no evidence that any specific antiviral, steroid 
treatment or other agents that are targeting this virus have any benefit to 
patients." A specific vaccine for the disease would be much better, safer 
and cheaper than any treatment. Even without a cure, with first-world 
hospitals, severe symptoms can often be treated, and most deaths averted.

Strict quarantine procedures are effective, even for viruses, according to 
most sources. Fifteen years ago, hospitals were lax about quarantines and 
antisepsis. In fact, I suspect I was infected with pneumonia during a 
routine checkup and x-ray in a hospital a week before I got sick, since I 
have not has so much as a bad cold ten years before or since. Fortunately, 
I have heard that standards in most hospitals were tightened up 
considerably since then. People are much more mobile than ever before, so 
the disease might spread rapidly. On the other hand accurate, detailed 
information moves even more quickly than ever. In the first world, and it 
may be possible to keep track of infected people and contain the disease.

However, I am afraid the populations in China and India may not be much 
better off now than they were in 1918, or 1618 for that matter. In Europe 
in 1918 the disease may have been spread by the effects of the war, such as 
malnutrition, filth in the trenches, sewage and so on. It might have a 
similar effect in Iraq.

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr  1 18:09:14 2003
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In a message dated 3/31/03 5:22:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
jonesb9 pacbell.net writes:

<< 
 
 This is yet another tentative link, or interesting cross-connection in a 
string of coincidence that may point to some explanation for certain CF 
mechanics.
 
 Bismuth is a very interesting material that becomes superconducting under 
high pressures or when alloyed. 

  >>....................................................
You are coming around to my way of thinking.  Normally lattice vibrations 
disrupt the Cooper pairs that make conventional superconductivity possible.  
In this type of superconductivity, which I call hyper conductivity, lattice 
vibrations bind the condensation.  The frequency required to bind the 
condensation depends on the dimensions of the condensate.  The 
hyperconductivity occurs at a specific frequency.   The dimensional constant 
is one megahertz-meter.




 <A HREF="http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chaptera.html">Chapter 10</A> 


Frank Znidarsic

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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC 1918 flu pandemic versus SARS
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 13:54:23 +1000
Organization: Improving
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In reply to  Jed Rothwell's message of Tue, 01 Apr 2003 18:54:25 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]
>Strict quarantine procedures are effective, even for viruses, according to 
>most sources. Fifteen years ago, hospitals were lax about quarantines and 
>antisepsis. In fact, I suspect I was infected with pneumonia during a 
>routine checkup and x-ray in a hospital a week before I got sick, since I 
>have not has so much as a bad cold ten years before or since. Fortunately, 
>I have heard that standards in most hospitals were tightened up 
>considerably since then. People are much more mobile than ever before, so 
>the disease might spread rapidly. On the other hand accurate, detailed 
>information moves even more quickly than ever. In the first world, and it 
>may be possible to keep track of infected people and contain the disease.
[snip]
A recent report shows that negative ion generators are very effective at preventing the spread of some diseases in hospitals. Perhaps they will prove equally useful in preventing SARS infections there too.
(See http://www.ergoboy.com/news/negative_ion.php ).




Regards,

R. van Spaandonk

When you are counting the dead, remember who voted
for the man that made it all possible.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr  1 20:06:09 2003
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The link should be:
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chaptera.html
..DonW..

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <FZNIDARSIC aol.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: Evidence for coherent phonons


| In a message dated 3/31/03 5:22:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
| jonesb9 pacbell.net writes:
| 
| << 
|  
|  This is yet another tentative link, or interesting cross-connection in a 
| string of coincidence that may point to some explanation for certain CF 
| mechanics.
|  
|  Bismuth is a very interesting material that becomes superconducting under 
| high pressures or when alloyed. 
| 
|   >>....................................................
| You are coming around to my way of thinking.  Normally lattice vibrations 
| disrupt the Cooper pairs that make conventional superconductivity possible.  
| In this type of superconductivity, which I call hyper conductivity, lattice 
| vibrations bind the condensation.  The frequency required to bind the 
| condensation depends on the dimensions of the condensate.  The 
| hyperconductivity occurs at a specific frequency.   The dimensional constant 
| is one megahertz-meter.
| 
| 
| 
| 
|  <A HREF="http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chaptera.html">Chapter 10</A> 
| 
| 
| Frank Znidarsic
| 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr  2 10:41:00 2003
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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell mindspring.com>
Subject: Ethanol fuel cell
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See:

http://www.wired.com/news/gizmos/0,1452,58119,00.html

Quote:

"You can use any alcohol. You will be able to pour it straight out of the 
bottle and into your battery," said team member Nick Akers, a graduate 
student. "We have run it on various types. It didn't like carbonated beer 
and doesn't seem fond of wine, but any other works fine." 


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Not an overwhelmingly positive article.  The most memorable part was that
researchers fear publicity, since this will attract the attention of
virulently anti-CF disbelievers who can put a stop to any projects.

(((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                            SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                            http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair
Seattle, WA  206-789-0775    unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr  3 02:06:12 2003
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Fellow Vortexians;

First of all there is a matter of the word disproportionation. I 
visited two dictionary websites one of which was the OED site, and 
failed to get and failed to get any definition. OTOH, my spell 
checker isn't flagging it, do any of you people have a definition of 
it?

Genesis World Energy www.genesisworldenergy.org claims to have a 30 
KW and a 100 KW electrical generator that runs on water. If you visit 
the website, page down tothe bottom for the link to get into the 
pictures. Wow! what a collection of links they have. I assumed that 
they are using a BLP reactor at the core of this machine, well, you 
know what happens when you assume. I applied for a distributorship. I 
told them that before we made any financial commitments, we wanted to 
test the machine with a water heater. IMHO, a 100 KW unit would make 
a truck like the one my brother the electrical contractor drives, a 1 
ton Chevy 4X4 with a contractor's box go down the road at 60 MPH, it 
would make it go 0 to 60 real quick too. So far all I've done is talk 
to a robot, so we shall see.

I really appreciate von Spaarondonk's theorizing on hydrino / nuclear 
reactions, and hope to see more.

I have previously posted an article on biological nuclear reactions 
which received little response. There is a company that is marketing 
a line of products one of which is a new soap which heals people. I 
assume that the healing results from the action of a surfactant.  The 
soap is said to kill pathogens and neutralize toxins too. Since this 
hits two of my hot buttons, health, and making money this will be 
continued.


Finally there is the matter of Len Horowitz. He says that the AIDS 
virus was engineered and lots of other things that if I said them 
would result in my being labeled a kook, however since his doctorate 
is in public health,
http://www.tetrahedron.org; http://www.americanreddoublecross.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr  3 06:34:27 2003
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Subject: Re: New Scientist arrives in Seattle
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSU.4.44.0304022309451.29406-100000 eskimo.com>
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The New Scientist finally arrived in Atlanta too. I agree with Bill Beaty 
it is not "overwhelmingly positive." But it is probably the best you can 
hope for from the mass media. Scott Chubb said overall he was pleased with 
it, but the apologetic tone irked him. The author seems to apologize to 
readers for bringing this to his attention. Also, Scott did not like that 
the article was a "swan song" as if CF is dead and nothing can be done to 
revive it.

The article has not triggered many downloads. Yesterday people were 
probably distracted by the war again, and only 488 papers were downloaded. 
I wondered why few readers have downloaded the 2002 Navy report. At the end 
of the article the Navy web site is listed, so I suppose they are 
downloading it directly from there.

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr  3 06:34:39 2003
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thomas malloy wrote:

> Fellow Vortexians;
>
> First of all there is a matter of the word disproportionation. I 
> visited two dictionary websites one of which was the OED site, and 
> failed to get and failed to get any definition. OTOH, my spell checker 
> isn't flagging it, do any of you people have a definition of it? 


http://cancerweb.ncl.ac.uk/cgi-bin/omd?query=disproportionation&action=Search+OMD

disproportionation

<chemistry> The splitting of a chemical compound into two new compounds, 
one more oxidized and one more reduced than the original compound.






From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr  3 09:05:47 2003
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From: Jones Beene <jonesb9 pacbell.net>
Subject: new physical phenomenon
To: vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
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Here is a science news item that is likely to go unnoticed in most =
circles, but...ahem...not in those circles where anything new - =
anything, that is, which also portends the possibility of "free energy," =
is regularly tossed about (i.e. vortex)

http://www.newsroom.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/display.cgi?id=3D548

RIVERSIDE, Calif. -- April 2, 2003 -- In a discovery that is likely to =
impact fields as diverse as atomic physics, chemistry and =
nanotechnology, researchers have identified a new physical phenomenon, =
electrostatic rotation, that, in the absence of friction, leads to spin. =
Because the electric force is one of the fundamental forces of nature, =
this leap forward in understanding may help reveal how the smallest =
building blocks in nature react to form solids, liquids and gases that =
constitute the material world around us. END


OK. That announcement is rather restrained and university-like...=20

Had they chosen instead to hand it over to a certain PR "spin doctor" =
(yours truly) the story might have come out this way...=20

VORTEX News Forum - April 1, 2003 - In a discovery that is likely to =
revolutionize atomic physics and alternative energy, researchers have =
identified a new physical phenomenon that demonstrates for the first =
time PERPETUAL MOTION, and indeed proves that many aspects of "free =
energy" coherence are possible.

It has been shown recently that pure "potential," universally available =
in the form of "aether" (beta aether or ZPE), can induce "kinetic =
energy" - or stated another way that an electrostatic field can produce =
physical spin. For the past half century, free energy researchers have =
sought to find this very asymmetry, the linkage between filed and =
action, that is, between a static potential "field" and dynamic real =
world "action"... but have, until now, come up with little more than =
loss-less transmission of electricity (superconductivity). More recently =
we have found ourselves on the verge of HTSC (high temperature =
superconductivity). All of these findings, taken together, are now =
poised and predicted to open up a whole new realm of free energy =
research, and will be recognized by future historians as the first giant =
step in relegating the so-called Second Law of Thermodynamics, down to a =
much humbler status....

How does that slight revision of the previous announcement grab you...

BTW, don't forget that it is... well... a dated story....

------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C2F9BF.91E0E520
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charset=3Dwindows-1252"><BASE=20
href=3D"file://C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft =
Shared\Stationery\">
<STYLE>BODY {
	BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; MARGIN-TOP: 25px; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; =
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}
</STYLE>

<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Here is a science news item that is likely to go unnoticed in most =
circles,=20
but...ahem...not in those circles where anything new - anything, that =
is, which=20
also portends the possibility of "free energy," is regularly tossed =
about (i.e.=20
vortex)</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><A=20
href=3D"http://www.newsroom.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/display.cgi?id=3D548">http://=
www.newsroom.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/display.cgi?id=3D548</A></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>RIVERSIDE, Calif. -- April 2, 2003 -- In a discovery that is likely =
to=20
impact fields as diverse as atomic physics, chemistry and =
nanotechnology,=20
researchers have identified a new physical phenomenon, electrostatic =
rotation,=20
that, in the absence of friction, leads to spin. Because the electric =
force is=20
one of the fundamental forces of nature, this leap forward in =
understanding may=20
help reveal how the smallest building blocks in nature react to form =
solids,=20
liquids and gases that constitute the material world around us. =
END</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>OK. That announcement is rather restrained and university-like... =
</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Had they chosen instead&nbsp;to hand&nbsp;it over to a certain PR =
"spin=20
doctor" (yours truly) the story might have come out this =
way...&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>VORTEX News Forum - April 1, 2003 - In a discovery that is likely =
to=20
revolutionize atomic physics and alternative energy, researchers have =
identified=20
a new physical phenomenon that demonstrates for the first =
time&nbsp;PERPETUAL=20
MOTION, and indeed proves that many aspects of "free energy" coherence =
are=20
possible.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>It has been shown recently that pure "potential," universally =
available in=20
the form of "aether" (beta aether or ZPE),&nbsp;can induce "kinetic =
energy" - or=20
stated another way that an electrostatic field can produce =
physical&nbsp;spin.=20
For the past half century, free energy researchers have sought to find =
this very=20
asymmetry, the&nbsp;linkage between filed and action, that is, between a =
static=20
potential "field" and dynamic real world "action"... but have, until=20
now,&nbsp;come up with little more than loss-less transmission of =
electricity=20
(superconductivity). More recently we have found ourselves on the verge =
of HTSC=20
(high temperature superconductivity).&nbsp;All of these findings, taken=20
together, are now poised and predicted to open up a whole new realm of =
free=20
energy research, and will be recognized by future historians as the =
first giant=20
step in relegating the so-called Second Law of Thermodynamics, down to a =
much=20
humbler status....</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>How does that slight revision of the previous announcement grab=20
you...</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>BTW, don't forget that it is... well...&nbsp;a dated =
story....</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C2F9BF.91E0E520--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr  3 10:43:44 2003
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From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: new physical phenomenon
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 14:00:12 -0500
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You're spinning faster than Ari Fleisher on a head full of coffee, mein
freund.

I thought this story was an April fool, but on reflection it would seem
that a critical piece missing from his experiment is a current meter
on the thin wires supporting the spheres. I could easily see how
an unequal charge distribution could cause rotation, but not without
current draw from the supply. The swastica electrostatic spinner
is standard issue on student van de graff generators, huh?

 Even under the condition of zero friction, it would
seem that accelerating the balls to "running speed" would store
energy which would again result in current consumption and/or
a reduction in the stored energy. I could imagine in that case that the
balls would accelerate, charge would decrease and the resulting
energy would appear as kinetic, until such a point as the
reduction in charge prevents further acceleration. Showing
a picture of the apparatus in operation would go a long way
towards helping to explain what's going on. Also providing
an actual reference to the journal article would help (grin).
Rather than just "somewhere in Applied Physics Letters..."

If he is not just pulling our collective legs, it is a rather remarkable
observation, but not perpetual motion as such. It still seems
sort of magical.... Why do I feel so dizzy????

K.
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Jones Beene [mailto:jonesb9 pacbell.net]
  Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 12:01 PM
  To: vortex
  Subject: new physical phenomenon


  Here is a science news item that is likely to go unnoticed in most
circles, but...ahem...not in those circles where anything new - anything,
that is, which also portends the possibility of "free energy," is regularly
tossed about (i.e. vortex)

  http://www.newsroom.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/display.cgi?id=548

  RIVERSIDE, Calif. -- April 2, 2003 -- In a discovery that is likely to
impact fields as diverse as atomic physics, chemistry and nanotechnology,
researchers have identified a new physical phenomenon, electrostatic
rotation, that, in the absence of friction, leads to spin. Because the
electric force is one of the fundamental forces of nature, this leap forward
in understanding may help reveal how the smallest building blocks in nature
react to form solids, liquids and gases that constitute the material world
around us. END


  OK. That announcement is rather restrained and university-like...

  Had they chosen instead to hand it over to a certain PR "spin doctor"
(yours truly) the story might have come out this way...

  VORTEX News Forum - April 1, 2003 - In a discovery that is likely to
revolutionize atomic physics and alternative energy, researchers have
identified a new physical phenomenon that demonstrates for the first time
PERPETUAL MOTION, and indeed proves that many aspects of "free energy"
coherence are possible.

  It has been shown recently that pure "potential," universally available in
the form of "aether" (beta aether or ZPE), can induce "kinetic energy" - or
stated another way that an electrostatic field can produce physical spin.
For the past half century, free energy researchers have sought to find this
very asymmetry, the linkage between filed and action, that is, between a
static potential "field" and dynamic real world "action"... but have, until
now, come up with little more than loss-less transmission of electricity
(superconductivity). More recently we have found ourselves on the verge of
HTSC (high temperature superconductivity). All of these findings, taken
together, are now poised and predicted to open up a whole new realm of free
energy research, and will be recognized by future historians as the first
giant step in relegating the so-called Second Law of Thermodynamics, down to
a much humbler status....

  How does that slight revision of the previous announcement grab you...

  BTW, don't forget that it is... well... a dated story....


------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C2F9E9.583D6530
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="Windows-1252"
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<HTML><HEAD>
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Shared\Stationery\">
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D825093418-03042003>You're spinning faster than Ari =
Fleisher on=20
a head full of coffee, mein freund.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D825093418-03042003></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D825093418-03042003>I thought this story was an April =
fool, but=20
on reflection it would seem</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D825093418-03042003>that a critical piece missing from =
his=20
experiment is a current meter</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D825093418-03042003>on the thin wires supporting the =
spheres. I=20
could easily see how</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D825093418-03042003>an unequal charge distribution =
could cause=20
rotation, but not without</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D825093418-03042003>current draw from the supply. The =
swastica=20
electrostatic spinner</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D825093418-03042003>is standard issue on student van =
de graff=20
generators, huh?&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D825093418-03042003></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D825093418-03042003></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D825093418-03042003>&nbsp;Even under the condition of zero =
friction, it=20
would</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D825093418-03042003>seem that accelerating the balls =
to "running=20
speed" would store</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D825093418-03042003>energy which would again result in =
current=20
consumption and/or</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D825093418-03042003>a reduction in the stored energy. =
I could=20
imagine in that case that the</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D825093418-03042003>balls would accelerate, charge =
would=20
decrease and the resulting</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D825093418-03042003>energy would appear as kinetic, =
until such a=20
point as the</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D825093418-03042003>reduction in charge prevents =
further=20
acceleration. Showing</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D825093418-03042003>a picture of the apparatus in =
operation=20
would go a long way</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D825093418-03042003>towards helping to explain what's =
going on.=20
Also providing</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D825093418-03042003>an actual reference to the journal =
article=20
would help (grin).</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D825093418-03042003>Rather than just "somewhere in =
Applied=20
Physics Letters..."</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D825093418-03042003></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D825093418-03042003>If he is not just pulling our =
collective=20
legs, it is a rather remarkable</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D825093418-03042003>observation, but not perpetual =
motion as=20
such. It still seems</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D825093418-03042003>sort of magical.... Why do I feel =
so=20
dizzy????</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D825093418-03042003></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D825093418-03042003>K.</SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Jones Beene=20
  [mailto:jonesb9 pacbell.net]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, April 03, 2003 =
12:01=20
  PM<BR><B>To:</B> vortex<BR><B>Subject:</B> new physical=20
  phenomenon<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
  <DIV>Here is a science news item that is likely to go unnoticed in =
most=20
  circles, but...ahem...not in those circles where anything new - =
anything, that=20
  is, which also portends the possibility of "free energy," is regularly =
tossed=20
  about (i.e. vortex)</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.newsroom.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/display.cgi?id=3D548">http://=
www.newsroom.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/display.cgi?id=3D548</A></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>RIVERSIDE, Calif. -- April 2, 2003 -- In a discovery that is =
likely to=20
  impact fields as diverse as atomic physics, chemistry and =
nanotechnology,=20
  researchers have identified a new physical phenomenon, electrostatic =
rotation,=20
  that, in the absence of friction, leads to spin. Because the electric =
force is=20
  one of the fundamental forces of nature, this leap forward in =
understanding=20
  may help reveal how the smallest building blocks in nature react to =
form=20
  solids, liquids and gases that constitute the material world around =
us.=20
  END</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>OK. That announcement is rather restrained and university-like... =
</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Had they chosen instead&nbsp;to hand&nbsp;it over to a certain PR =
"spin=20
  doctor" (yours truly) the story might have come out this =
way...&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>VORTEX News Forum - April 1, 2003 - In a discovery that is likely =
to=20
  revolutionize atomic physics and alternative energy, researchers have=20
  identified a new physical phenomenon that demonstrates for the first=20
  time&nbsp;PERPETUAL MOTION, and indeed proves that many aspects of =
"free=20
  energy" coherence are possible.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>It has been shown recently that pure "potential," universally =
available=20
  in the form of "aether" (beta aether or ZPE),&nbsp;can induce "kinetic =
energy"=20
  - or stated another way that an electrostatic field can produce=20
  physical&nbsp;spin. For the past half century, free energy researchers =
have=20
  sought to find this very asymmetry, the&nbsp;linkage between filed and =
action,=20
  that is, between a static potential "field" and dynamic real world =
"action"...=20
  but have, until now,&nbsp;come up with little more than loss-less =
transmission=20
  of electricity (superconductivity). More recently we have found =
ourselves on=20
  the verge of HTSC (high temperature superconductivity).&nbsp;All of =
these=20
  findings, taken together, are now poised and predicted to open up a =
whole new=20
  realm of free energy research, and will be recognized by future =
historians as=20
  the first giant step in relegating the so-called Second Law of =
Thermodynamics,=20
  down to a much humbler status....</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>How does that slight revision of the previous announcement grab=20
  you...</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>BTW, don't forget that it is... well...&nbsp;a dated =
story....</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C2F9E9.583D6530--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr  3 10:49:47 2003
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Hello,

http://www.newsroom.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/display.cgi?id=548

This is interesting. It remind me a recent ideas developed
by Frederick and me on the connection of the charge and the current.

---

 UC Riverside researchers' discovery of electrostatic
 spin topples century-old theory. New physical phenomenon
 will likely impact atomic physics, chemistry and nanotechnology
 (April 2, 2003)


 ...researchers have identified a new physical
 phenomenon, electrostatic rotation, that, in the absence of
 friction, leads to spin....
 ... Scientists Anders Wistrom and Armik Khachatourian of
 University of California, Riverside first observed the
 electrostatic rotation in static experiments that consisted of
 three metal spheres suspended by thin metal wires, and
 published their observations in Applied Physics Letters. When
 a DC voltage was applied to the spheres they began to rotate
 until the stiffness of the suspending wires prevented further
 rotation. The observed electrostatic rotation was not expected
 and could not be explained by available theory. 

---

Regards,

hamdi ucar

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr  3 11:01:53 2003
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JNL gained another argument for his lifter, the asymmetric capacitor.

> Jones Beene wrote:
> 
> Here is a science news item that is likely to go unnoticed in most circles, but...ahem...not in those circles where anything new - anything, that is, which also portends the possibility of "free energy," is regularly tossed about (i.e. vortex)
> 
> http://www.newsroom.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/display.cgi?id=548
> 
> RIVERSIDE, Calif. -- April 2, 2003 -- In a discovery that is likely to impact fields as diverse as atomic physics, chemistry and nanotechnology, researchers have identified a new physical phenomenon, electrostatic rotation, that, in the absence of friction, leads to spin. Because the electric force is one of the fundamental forces of nature, this leap forward in understanding may help reveal how the smallest building blocks in nature react to form solids, liquids and gases that constitute the material world around us. END
> 
> 
> OK. That announcement is rather restrained and university-like...
> 
> Had they chosen instead to hand it over to a certain PR "spin doctor" (yours truly) the story might have come out this way...
> 
> VORTEX News Forum - April 1, 2003 - In a discovery that is likely to revolutionize atomic physics and alternative energy, researchers have identified a new physical phenomenon that demonstrates for the first time PERPETUAL MOTION, and indeed proves that many aspects of "free energy" coherence are possible.
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr  3 11:02:00 2003
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Subject: Re: new physical phenomenon
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I can't tell if this is supposed to be a joke or not - actually the 
hallmark of a well crafted spoof (or a dumb reader). Are they 
serious? The description on the web site of an assymetric force from 
uneven charge distribution is essentially the same as the 
Biefeld-Brown force. I assume they're implying that it's 
conservative, but I can't tell that for sure either. Looks like a 
joke, but it's dated April 2nd.

- RM

>Here is a science news item that is likely to go unnoticed in most 
>circles, but...ahem...not in those circles where anything new - 
>anything, that is, which also portends the possibility of "free 
>energy," is regularly tossed about (i.e. vortex)
>
><http://www.newsroom.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/display.cgi?id=548>http://www.ne 
>wsroom.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/display.cgi?id=548
>
>RIVERSIDE, Calif. -- April 2, 2003 -- In a discovery that is likely 
>to impact fields as diverse as atomic physics, chemistry and 
>nanotechnology, researchers have identified a new physical 
>phenomenon, electrostatic rotation, that, in the absence of 
>friction, leads to spin. Because the electric force is one of the 
>fundamental forces of nature, this leap forward in understanding may 
>help reveal how the smallest building blocks in nature react to form 
>solids, liquids and gases that constitute the material world around 
>us. END
>
>
>OK. That announcement is rather restrained and university-like...
>
>Had they chosen instead to hand it over to a certain PR "spin 
>doctor" (yours truly) the story might have come out this way...
>
>VORTEX News Forum - April 1, 2003 - In a discovery that is likely to 
>revolutionize atomic physics and alternative energy, researchers 
>have identified a new physical phenomenon that demonstrates for the 
>first time PERPETUAL MOTION, and indeed proves that many aspects of 
>"free energy" coherence are possible.
>
>It has been shown recently that pure "potential," universally 
>available in the form of "aether" (beta aether or ZPE), can induce 
>"kinetic energy" - or stated another way that an electrostatic field 
>can produce physical spin. For the past half century, free energy 
>researchers have sought to find this very asymmetry, the linkage 
>between filed and action, that is, between a static potential 
>"field" and dynamic real world "action"... but have, until now, come 
>up with little more than loss-less transmission of electricity 
>(superconductivity). More recently we have found ourselves on the 
>verge of HTSC (high temperature superconductivity). All of these 
>findings, taken together, are now poised and predicted to open up a 
>whole new realm of free energy research, and will be recognized by 
>future historians as the first giant step in relegating the 
>so-called Second Law of Thermodynamics, down to a much humbler 
>status....
>
>How does that slight revision of the previous announcement grab you...
>
>BTW, don't forget that it is... well... a dated story....
>

--============_-1162726109==_ma============
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<html><head><style type="text/css"><!--
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { margin-top: 0 ; margin-bottom: 0 }
 --></style><title>Re: new physical phenomenon</title></head><body>
<div>I can't tell if this is supposed to be a joke or not - actually
the hallmark of a well crafted spoof (or a dumb reader). Are they
serious? The description on the web site of an assymetric force from
uneven charge distribution is essentially the same as the
Biefeld-Brown force. I assume they're implying that it's
conservative, but I can't tell that for sure either. Looks like a
joke, but it's dated April 2nd.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>- RM</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Here is a science news item that is
likely to go unnoticed in most circles, but...ahem...not in those
circles where anything new - anything, that is, which also portends
the possibility of &quot;free energy,&quot; is regularly tossed about
(i.e. vortex)</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>&nbsp;</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><a
href="http://www.newsroom.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/display.cgi?id=548"
>http://www.newsroom.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/displ<span
></span>ay.cgi?id=548</a></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>&nbsp;</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>RIVERSIDE, Calif. -- April 2, 2003 -- In
a discovery that is likely to impact fields as diverse as atomic
physics, chemistry and nanotechnology, researchers have identified a
new physical phenomenon, electrostatic rotation, that, in the absence
of friction, leads to spin. Because the electric force is one of the
fundamental forces of nature, this leap forward in understanding may
help reveal how the smallest building blocks in nature react to form
solids, liquids and gases that constitute the material world around
us. END</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>&nbsp;</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>&nbsp;</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>OK. That announcement is rather
restrained and university-like...</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>&nbsp;</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Had they chosen instead&nbsp;to
hand&nbsp;it over to a certain PR &quot;spin doctor&quot; (yours
truly) the story might have come out this way...</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>&nbsp;</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>VORTEX News Forum - April 1, 2003 - In a
discovery that is likely to revolutionize atomic physics and
alternative energy, researchers have identified a new physical
phenomenon that demonstrates for the first time&nbsp;PERPETUAL
MOTION, and indeed proves that many aspects of &quot;free
energy&quot; coherence are possible.</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>&nbsp;</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>It has been shown recently that pure
&quot;potential,&quot; universally available in the form of
&quot;aether&quot; (beta aether or ZPE),&nbsp;can induce
&quot;kinetic energy&quot; - or stated another way that an
electrostatic field can produce physical&nbsp;spin. For the past half
century, free energy researchers have sought to find this very
asymmetry, the&nbsp;linkage between filed and action, that is,
between a static potential &quot;field&quot; and dynamic real world
&quot;action&quot;... but have, until now,&nbsp;come up with little
more than loss-less transmission of electricity (superconductivity).
More recently we have found ourselves on the verge of HTSC (high
temperature superconductivity).&nbsp;All of these findings, taken
together, are now poised and predicted to open up a whole new realm
of free energy research, and will be recognized by future historians
as the first giant step in relegating the so-called Second Law of
Thermodynamics, down to a much humbler status....</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>&nbsp;</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>How does that slight revision of the
previous announcement grab you...</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>&nbsp;</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>BTW, don't forget that it is...
well...&nbsp;a dated story....</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>&nbsp;</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
</body>
</html>
--============_-1162726109==_ma============--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr  3 11:24:50 2003
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Reply-To: <knagel gis.net>
From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: "Vortex" <vortex-l eskimo.com>, <hamdix@verisoft.com.tr>
Subject: RE: new physical phenomenon
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 14:41:48 -0500
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Hey Hamdi.

You may be comparing apples and oranges there. It's possible
to have a conservative system when there is no friction,
with rotation. That may be the loophole that Anders
is taking advantage of. I just sent him a very short email
asking for the journal references, that should give
us a much better idea of the claim than the press
release. Here's hoping he can answer before being flooded
by internet wingnuts (grin).

It strikes me that perhaps the element that is compensating
for the increase in kinetic energy is not the charge
as such, but the distance between the balls? Is
he charging all balls to the same potential? No
doubt the journal articles will enlighten us.

K.

-----Original Message-----
From: hamdix [mailto:hamdix verisoft.com.tr]
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 2:01 PM
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: new physical phenomenon


JNL gained another argument for his lifter, the asymmetric capacitor.

> Jones Beene wrote:
>
> Here is a science news item that is likely to go unnoticed in most
circles, but...ahem...not in those circles where anything new - anything,
that is, which also portends the possibility of "free energy," is regularly
tossed about (i.e. vortex)
>
> http://www.newsroom.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/display.cgi?id=548
>
> RIVERSIDE, Calif. -- April 2, 2003 -- In a discovery that is likely to
impact fields as diverse as atomic physics, chemistry and nanotechnology,
researchers have identified a new physical phenomenon, electrostatic
rotation, that, in the absence of friction, leads to spin. Because the
electric force is one of the fundamental forces of nature, this leap forward
in understanding may help reveal how the smallest building blocks in nature
react to form solids, liquids and gases that constitute the material world
around us. END
>
>
> OK. That announcement is rather restrained and university-like...
>
> Had they chosen instead to hand it over to a certain PR "spin doctor"
(yours truly) the story might have come out this way...
>
> VORTEX News Forum - April 1, 2003 - In a discovery that is likely to
revolutionize atomic physics and alternative energy, researchers have
identified a new physical phenomenon that demonstrates for the first time
PERPETUAL MOTION, and indeed proves that many aspects of "free energy"
coherence are possible.
>


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr  3 11:32:09 2003
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From: ConexTom aol.com
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Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 14:28:23 EST
Subject: Increasing the Efficiency of Solar Cells with Nonlinear Photonic Crystals
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--part1_6.de9a7c6.2bbde557_boundary
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Increasing the Efficiency of Solar Cells with Nonlinear Optical Photonic 
Crystals and Phase Modulators

http://www.phys.uni-sofia.bg/~saltiel/saltiel2000OL.pdf

Higher and lower bandwidth photons, which are out of the range of ordinary 
multi-band solar cells, can be converted into photons which are in the range 
of multiband solar cells, by using an optical phase modulator such as a 
nonlinear photonic crystal, lens, glass spiral vortex photonic wave guide, or 
a prism placed over the solar cell, to collect and convert multiband photonic 
waves with parametric frequency conversion from the higher and lower band 
photons into white light or phase converted photons that the multiband solar 
cells can receive and process into electrical energy to improve the 
efficiency from 20% to 75%.  

Some of the high band photons that are to energetic for normal solar cells 
could also be collected and used as a laser photonic pump to modulate or 
demodulate other photons into the white light band width used by solar cells. 
  A photonic phase modulator and converter as described above could also 
allow infrared and high energy photons to be collected and converted into 
electrical energy at night when there is no visible sun but only starlight, 
and to collect some high energy photons which may pass through walls, inside 
of a house, so that the solar cells can be in the house, and collect energy 
all day long.   Crystal geometry's may also be designed which use nonlinear 
electrical circuits principles to collect static electricity or pure photonic 
electricity by nonlinear parametric cancellation, and monopolar phase 
conversion, to convert the energy into a white light that solar cells can 
receive and use. 

Baron n Volsung, <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com\baron">www.rhfweb.com\baron</A>, Email: tom rhfweb.com
President Thomas D. Clark, tom rhfweb.com, <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com\personal">www.rhfweb.com\personal</A>
New Age Production's Inc., <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com\newage">www.rhfweb.com\newage</A>
Star Haven Community Services, at <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com\sh">www.rhfweb.com\sh</A>
Radiation Health Foundation Trust at <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com">www.rhfweb.com</A>


--part1_6.de9a7c6.2bbde557_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=
=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Increasing the Efficiency of Solar Cells with Nonlinea=
r Optical Photonic Crystals and Phase Modulators<BR>
<BR>
http://www.phys.uni-sofia.bg/~saltiel/saltiel2000OL.pdf<BR>
<BR>
Higher and lower bandwidth photons, which are out of the range of ordinary m=
ulti-band solar cells, can be converted into photons which are in the range=20=
of multiband solar cells, by using an optical phase modulator such as a nonl=
inear photonic crystal, lens, glass spiral vortex photonic wave guide, or a=20=
prism placed over the solar cell, to collect and convert multiband photonic=20=
waves with parametric frequency conversion from the higher and lower band ph=
otons into white light or phase converted photons that the multiband solar c=
ells can receive and process into electrical energy to improve the efficienc=
y from 20% to 75%.&nbsp; <BR>
<BR>
Some of the high band photons that are to energetic for normal solar cells c=
ould also be collected and used as a laser photonic pump to modulate or demo=
dulate other photons into the white light band width used by solar cells.&nb=
sp;&nbsp; A photonic phase modulator and converter as described above could=20=
also allow infrared and high energy photons to be collected and converted in=
to electrical energy at night when there is no visible sun but only starligh=
t, and to collect some high energy photons which may pass through walls, ins=
ide of a house, so that the solar cells can be in the house, and collect ene=
rgy all day long.&nbsp;&nbsp; Crystal geometry's may also be designed which=20=
use nonlinear electrical circuits principles to collect static electricity o=
r pure photonic electricity by nonlinear parametric cancellation, and monopo=
lar phase conversion, to convert the energy into a white light that solar ce=
lls can receive and use. <BR>
<BR>
Baron n Volsung, <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\baron">www.rhfweb.com\baron</A>,=20=
Email: tom rhfweb.com<BR>
President Thomas D. Clark, tom rhfweb.com, <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\persona=
l">www.rhfweb.com\personal</A><BR>
New Age Production's Inc., <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\newage">www.rhfweb.com\=
newage</A><BR>
Star Haven Community Services, at <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\sh">www.rhfweb.c=
om\sh</A><BR>
Radiation Health Foundation Trust at <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com">www.rhfweb.c=
om</A><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_6.de9a7c6.2bbde557_boundary--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr  3 13:08:23 2003
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Hi Keith,

Article obviously dont gave a clear idea about the experiment,
but JNL may dont need it either.

I hope it is a real new phenomenon and the experiment was made
in vacuum without current drift.


Keith Nagel wrote:
> 
> Hey Hamdi.
> 
> You may be comparing apples and oranges there. It's possible
> to have a conservative system when there is no friction,
> with rotation. That may be the loophole that Anders
> is taking advantage of.

It look fishy to me this no friction condition. It may be asserted
to avoid critics on the energy conservation. It  could be message
it is not a practical way to extract energy. 

> I just sent him a very short email
> asking for the journal references, that should give
> us a much better idea of the claim than the press
> release. Here's hoping he can answer before being flooded
> by internet wingnuts (grin).

This would be great.

> 
> It strikes me that perhaps the element that is compensating
> for the increase in kinetic energy is not the charge
> as such, but the distance between the balls? Is
> he charging all balls to the same potential? No
> doubt the journal articles will enlighten us.
> 
> K.

I dont think so. Rather, it would be interesting to make an alternate
experiment where a charged ball or an arrangement of multiple balls are
rotated and see possible change on voltage.

If you recall on a Frederick's thread I speculate that current instead
of charge is fundamental physical entity and charge may be caused by a
rotating current. So if rotation is a part of the charge, may something
like these would happen.  

On the original experiment, it would be very interesting to find the rotation
direction be independent from asymmetry of the balls.

Regards,

hamdix

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr  3 14:16:09 2003
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Changing World Technologies, Inc. has developed a new process to turn 
everything from tires to biomass into oil.  From the May issue of 
Discover Magazine:

"If a 175 man fell into one end, he would come out the other end as 38 
pounds of oil, 7 pounds of gas, and 7 pounds of minerals, as well as 123 
pounds of sterilized water."

Fred should love this if it works!

http://changingworldtech.com/techfr.htm

Terry

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Hi.

>Article obviously dont gave a clear idea about the experiment,
>but JNL may dont need it either.

Indeed. It sort of reminded me of a JLN article, in fact (grin).

>It look fishy to me this no friction condition. It may be asserted
>to avoid critics on the energy conservation. It  could be message
>it is not a practical way to extract energy.

Funny, that part made sense to me. If the article is serious
I doubt the researcher is claiming OU. Jones is just having
some fun with us, in his inimitable style. It's a clever
way to provoke conversation, and as we see it worked.

>This would be great.

No word yet. I suspect he's been deluged.

>I dont think so. Rather, it would be interesting to make an alternate
>experiment where a charged ball or an arrangement of multiple balls are
>rotated and see possible change on voltage.

Good point. As I doubt spinning three balls would produce a
static charge, that would mean either the the device is
non-reciprocal or we're missing something...

>If you recall on a Frederick's thread I speculate that current instead
>of charge is fundamental physical entity and charge may be caused by a
>rotating current. So if rotation is a part of the charge, may something
>like these would happen.

Did you post this on Vortex??? What a bizarre idea, sort of
turns the relativistic notion on it's head.

>On the original experiment, it would be very interesting to find the
rotation
>direction be independent from asymmetry of the balls.

Presumably some slight assymetry would determine rotation direction.

K.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr  3 14:53:42 2003
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I suppose it's pointless of me to bring this up at such a late date, but I observed this very same phenomenon about four years ago.  I'm not a scientist and I don't keep records of my too numerous electrostatic experiments, so I don't really make a claim of priority, nor should I.  Furthermore, I had no idea of a theoretical underpinning. 

I did this experiment with cylinders instead of spheres.  The conductors I used were wet threads instead of wires.  The advantage of using a high resistance conductor like wet thread instead of wire is that there is much less corona leakage.  The cylinders were just empty soda cans hung by the pull tabs.  They spin quite nicely at about 10kV or even less.  The apparatus was charged with a PVC pipe frictional generator.

You may wonder how I came to this arrangement.  It's pretty simple.  I was trying to to construct a larger and much more dramatic version of a gold leaf electroscope using two soda cans.  The problem is that they tend to twirl around each other, tangling up the threads.  So I figured three cans would give the required symmetry to avoid the twirling problem.  I worked, but then the cans would rotate.  I honestly had no idea why this was happening and thought maybe it had to do with interaction with the earth's magnetic field.  Who knew?  I have lots and lots of electrostatic experiments with what I consider to be results contradicting conventional wisdom.  I usually have no success in attracting any interest in these.

I have absolutely no idea whether this action is conservative or not.  It won't be too hard to test, however, given a more slightly more elaborate arrangement.

The announcement by those guys at UC Riverside is very encouraging to me, because if it really does succeed in demonstrating new physical principles, it will show that much remains to be learned without spending billions on such things a superconducting supercolliders.  It might even temper those rapaciously irresponsible inquisitors who hope to squash anyone experimenting in cold fusion.

M.

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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr  3 16:59:47 2003
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Wondering if this relates to the Feynman experiment/demos that show angular momentum appearing on a free-to-spin disk when discharged.

Michael, did the cans only gyrate and not try to spin until you tried the three-can config?

- RM

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Hello vortexians...

If you are looking for the reference for the Anders Wistrom electric
rotation article, I believe it is as shown below.

Applied Physics Letters--April 15, 2002
Volume 80, Issue 15, pp. 2625-2806

INTERDISCIPLINARY AND GENERAL PHYSICS
LA eng
TE Coulomb motor by rotation of spherical conductors via the
   electrostatic force
AU Anders O.Wistrom and Armik V.M.Khachatourian

Dave



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr  3 17:50:17 2003
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Rick Monteverde < rick highsurf.com > wrote:

> Wondering if this relates to the Feynman experiment/demos that show
> angular momentum appearing on a free-to-spin disk when
> discharged.

Very likely.

> Michael, did the cans only gyrate and not try to spin until you
> tried the three-can config?

I haven't messed with this for a while, but remember I was just trying to make an interesting demonstration and was actually annoyed when the threads became twisted.  I'm guessing that the cans were trying to rotate but began to revolve around each other.  If I had thought about it, I should have hung them from separate threads connected by a conductor.  I wasn't looking for any new physical principles, and I'm a little ashamed that I didn't think anything very remarkable was going on.  BTW, the cans were charged negatively. 

Hey, why doesn't somebody else try this?  There must be a total budget of somewhere under a dollar for the whole setup.  I've really got to try this again myself.

M.


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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr  4 01:05:28 2003
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Keith Nagel wrote:
> 

> 
> >I dont think so. Rather, it would be interesting to make an alternate
> >experiment where a charged ball or an arrangement of multiple balls are
> >rotated and see possible change on voltage.
> 
> Good point. As I doubt spinning three balls would produce a
> static charge, that would mean either the the device is
> non-reciprocal or we're missing something...

You are right, need a symmetric field for not produce E.M.

> 
> >If you recall on a Frederick's thread I speculate that current instead
> >of charge is fundamental physical entity and charge may be caused by a
> >rotating current. So if rotation is a part of the charge, may something
> >like these would happen.
> 
> Did you post this on Vortex??? What a bizarre idea, sort of
> turns the relativistic notion on it's head.

Yes, it was left between the lines. On thread "Constant Charge and Gravity-Antigravity"
dated  21 Oct 2002. 


Frederick Sparber wrote:
> 
> The particle model keeps suggesting that the fundamental unit of charge +/- q =  +/-
> 1.602e-19 Coulombs is constant because it is the product of capacitance (C) =
> eo*wavelength and potential (V) due to the electromagnetic energy contained in the
> particle i.e., q = CV.
> This is similar to the velocity (v)*radius (r) = a constant in a vortex where the
> constant goes to infinity as the radius goes to zero.
> 
> By the same token, the energy (E) contained in the inductance (L) = uo*wavelength in a
> particle  = 1/2 LI^2 when the particle is treated as an LC "Tank-Circuit" suggests
> that energy/charge is shuttled back and forth between L and C.
> 
> IOW, the charge (q)  "stored" in L = Current ( I ) times time (t) i.e.., q = I * t.
> 
> All this tends to suggest that charge that Might interact with the gravity field could
> be synthesized by mechanically varying the spacing between the plates of a capacitor
> with an a.c. voltage applied out of phase with the mechanical displacement of the
> plates. ??
>


Then I wrote:

> Frederick Sparber wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > IOW, the charge (q)  "stored" in L = Current ( I ) times time (t) i.e.., q = I * t.
> 
> Naturally, current should have also two types: Current producing negative charges -
> normal current, and the anti-current which produce positive charge.
> 
> Now, e-e+ production and annihilation mechanism can be visualized. Current and 
> anti-current getting closer and bang. Current loops are destroyed and charges. 
> 
> If e-e+ <--> gamma photon exchange is a pure electrical/electromagnetic process, 
> it can be said that electrons are just an electromagnetic form.
> 
> If current is fundamental not the charge, may tunneling and superconductivity be
> explained better. Superconductivity is just allowing macroscopic current forming. 
> Electrons are not circled at all, but the current part of charged particles contribute
> the super current.
> 
> Of course this is not necessary.
> 

It is difficult to visualize the current is fundamental, nor the electric field, nor the magnetism, and charge. Electromagnetism should depend to current in order to exist, therefore Maxwell equations need be rewritten in term of current. Not appears too logical and may not be easy or even possible. I dont know. But still appears me an attractive idea. 

Attractive side, it would be to explain e+e- creation and annihilation as just topologic transformation of the "current" existing in the electromagnetic wave.

And may the superconductivity. Supper currents induced in superconductors dont need electron or other charge carriers. As no additional charge is required for produce super current, it would be perusable to think current elements embedded in charged particles enter in a cooperative mode to induce super currents. The difference between classical thinking and this one is no electron circulation is require to produce current but just current already flowing inside particles enter a cooperative mode.

As  current is fundamental, but probably always need to complete a loop, may the electron tunneling phenomenon is just exhibition of free flow of currents in macroscopic scale.


> 
> >On the original experiment, it would be very interesting to find the
> rotation > >direction be independent from asymmetry of the balls.
> 
> Presumably some slight assymetry would determine rotation direction.
> 
> K.

Regards,

hamdi ucar

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Some typos correction on my previous post
 
...And may the superconductivity. Supper currents.... <-- "super currents"

...it would be perusable to think current elements...  <-- "it would be plasuable to think"


hamdi ucar

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Hear, hear, a salute to Michael for pointing this out.

Also have seen this, in an rig for testing assymetric currents,
 and I attributed it to the earth's magnetic field as well.
 Just shows what cynical assumption does when I get depressed, I suppose.
 I will try your setup, it sounds a lot cleaner than what I had rigged up.

cheers

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Foster [mailto:michael.foster excite.com]
> Sent: Friday, 2003 April 04 05:52
> To: vortex-l eskimo.com
> Subject: Re: new physical phenomenon
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose it's pointless of me to bring this up at such a late 
> date, but I observed this very same phenomenon about four years 
> ago.  I'm not a scientist and I don't keep records of my too 
> numerous electrostatic experiments, so I don't really make a 
> claim of priority, nor should I.  Furthermore, I had no idea of a 
> theoretical underpinning. 
> 
> I did this experiment with cylinders instead of spheres.  The 
> conductors I used were wet threads instead of wires.  The 
> advantage of using a high resistance conductor like wet thread 
> instead of wire is that there is much less corona leakage.  The 
> cylinders were just empty soda cans hung by the pull tabs.  They 
> spin quite nicely at about 10kV or even less.  The apparatus was 
> charged with a PVC pipe frictional generator.
> 
> You may wonder how I came to this arrangement.  It's pretty 
> simple.  I was trying to to construct a larger and much more 
> dramatic version of a gold leaf electroscope using two soda cans. 
>  The problem is that they tend to twirl around each other, 
> tangling up the threads.  So I figured three cans would give the 
> required symmetry to avoid the twirling problem.  I worked, but 
> then the cans would rotate.  I honestly had no idea why this was 
> happening and thought maybe it had to do with interaction with 
> the earth's magnetic field.  Who knew?  I have lots and lots of 
> electrostatic experiments with what I consider to be results 
> contradicting conventional wisdom.  I usually have no success in 
> attracting any interest in these.
> 
> I have absolutely no idea whether this action is conservative or 
> not.  It won't be too hard to test, however, given a more 
> slightly more elaborate arrangement.
> 
> The announcement by those guys at UC Riverside is very 
> encouraging to me, because if it really does succeed in 
> demonstrating new physical principles, it will show that much 
> remains to be learned without spending billions on such things a 
> superconducting supercolliders.  It might even temper those 
> rapaciously irresponsible inquisitors who hope to squash anyone 
> experimenting in cold fusion.
> 
> M.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
> The most personalized portal on the Web!
> 
> 
> 

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Jones Beene wrote:

> Here is a science news item that is likely to go unnoticed
> in most circles, but...ahem...not in those circles where
> anything new - anything, that is, which also portends the
> possibility of "free energy," is regularly tossed about
> (i.e.
> vortex) http://www.newsroom.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/display.cgi?id=548 RIVERSIDE,
> Calif. -- April 2, 2003 -- In a discovery that is likely
> to impact fields as diverse as atomic physics, chemistry
> and nanotechnology, researchers have identified a new
> physical phenomenon, electrostatic rotation, that, in the
> absence of friction, leads to spin. Because the electric
> force is one of the fundamental forces of nature, this
> leap forward in understanding may help reveal how the
> smallest building blocks in nature react to form solids,
> liquids and gases that constitute the material world
> around us. END  OK. That announcement is rather restrained
> and university-like... Had they chosen instead to hand it
> over to a certain PR "spin doctor" (yours truly) the story
> might have come out this way... VORTEX News Forum - April
> 1, 2003 - In a discovery that is likely to revolutionize
> atomic physics and alternative energy, researchers have
> identified a new physical phenomenon that demonstrates for
> the first time PERPETUAL MOTION, and indeed proves that
> many aspects of "free energy" coherence are possible. It
> has been shown recently that pure "potential," universally
> available in the form of "aether" (beta aether or ZPE),
> can induce "kinetic energy" - or stated another way that
> an electrostatic field can produce physical spin. For the
> past half century, free energy researchers have sought to
> find this very asymmetry, the linkage between filed and
> action, that is, between a static potential "field" and
> dynamic real world "action"... but have, until now, come
> up with little more than loss-less transmission of
> electricity (superconductivity). More recently we have
> found ourselves on the verge of HTSC (high temperature
> superconductivity). All of these findings, taken together,
> are now poised and predicted to open up a whole new realm
> of free energy research, and will be recognized by future
> historians as the first giant step in relegating the
> so-called Second Law of Thermodynamics, down to a much
> humbler status....
>
> Jones, the Second Law has no relationship to this issue.
> The Second Law only applies to a closed system where the
> flow of energy in all forms can be observed.  In this
> case, you have an open system into which energy from the
> outside, ie ZPE, is allowed.    Once this additional
> energy is taken into account, the Second Law again becomes
> exact.  This error is so common, yet so important to an
> understanding of thermodynamics, I have to wonder why.
>
> Ed
>
>
>
>   How does that slight revision of the previous
> announcement grab you... BTW, don't forget that it is...
> well... a dated story....

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&nbsp;
<p>Jones Beene wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><style>BODY {
	BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; MARGIN-TOP: 25px; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 25px; COLOR: #000000; BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Arial
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Here
is a science news item that is likely to go unnoticed in most circles,
but...ahem...not in those circles where anything new - anything, that is,
which also portends the possibility of "free energy," is regularly tossed
about (i.e. vortex)&nbsp;<a href="http://www.newsroom.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/display.cgi?id=548">http://www.newsroom.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/display.cgi?id=548</a>&nbsp;RIVERSIDE,
Calif. -- April 2, 2003 -- In a discovery that is likely to impact fields
as diverse as atomic physics, chemistry and nanotechnology, researchers
have identified a new physical phenomenon, electrostatic rotation, that,
in the absence of friction, leads to spin. Because the electric force is
one of the fundamental forces of nature, this leap forward in understanding
may help reveal how the smallest building blocks in nature react to form
solids, liquids and gases that constitute the material world around us.
END&nbsp;&nbsp;OK. That announcement is rather restrained and university-like...&nbsp;Had
they chosen instead to hand it over to a certain PR "spin doctor" (yours
truly) the story might have come out this way...&nbsp;VORTEX News Forum
- April 1, 2003 - In a discovery that is likely to revolutionize atomic
physics and alternative energy, researchers have identified a new physical
phenomenon that demonstrates for the first time PERPETUAL MOTION, and indeed
proves that many aspects of "free energy" coherence are possible.&nbsp;It
has been shown recently that pure "potential," universally available in
the form of "aether" (beta aether or ZPE), can induce "kinetic energy"
- or stated another way that an electrostatic field can produce physical
spin. For the past half century, free energy researchers have sought to
find this very asymmetry, the linkage between filed and action, that is,
between a static potential "field" and dynamic real world "action"... but
have, until now, come up with little more than loss-less transmission of
electricity (superconductivity). More recently we have found ourselves
on the verge of HTSC (high temperature superconductivity). All of these
findings, taken together, are now poised and predicted to open up a whole
new realm of free energy research, and will be recognized by future historians
as the first giant step in relegating the so-called Second Law of Thermodynamics,
down to a much humbler status....
<p><font color="#F00E1B">Jones, the Second Law has no relationship to this
issue.&nbsp; The Second Law only applies to a closed system where the flow
of energy in all forms can be observed.&nbsp; In this case, you have an
open system into which energy from the outside, ie ZPE, is allowed.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Once this additional energy is taken into account, the Second Law again
becomes exact.&nbsp; This error is so common, yet so important to an understanding
of thermodynamics, I have to wonder why.</font><font color="#F00E1B"></font>
<p><font color="#F00E1B">Ed</font>
<br><font color="#F00E1B"></font>&nbsp;
<br><font color="#F00E1B"></font>&nbsp;
<br><font color="#F00E1B"></font>&nbsp;
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;How does that slight revision of the previous announcement
grab you...&nbsp;BTW, don't forget that it is... well... a dated story....&nbsp;</blockquote>

</body>
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A quick check of the Inspec database yields :

<RECORD 1>
Electrostatic interaction force between planar surfaces due to 3-D
distribution of sources of potential (charge)
Khachatourian, A.V.M. (Dept. of Chem. & Environ. Eng.,
California Univ., Riverside, CA, USA); Wistrom, A.O.
Source:Journal of Physical Chemistry B, v102, n14, 2 April 1998, p2483-93
Database: INSPEC

<RECORD 2>
Calibration of the electrostatic force between spheres at constant potential
Wistrom, A.O. (California Univ., Riverside, CA, USA); Khachatourian, A.V.
Source:Measurement Science & Technology, v10, n12, Dec. 1999, p1296-9
Database: INSPEC

<RECORD 3>
Coulomb motor by rotation of spherical conductors via the electrostatic force
Wistrom, A.O. (Dept. of Chem. & Environ. Eng., California Univ., Riverside,
CA, USA); Khachatourian, A.V.M.
Source:Applied Physics Letters, v80, n15, 15 April 2002, p2800-1
Database: INSPEC

<RECORD 4>
Electrostatic rotation of spherical conductors
Khachatourian, A.V.M. (Dept. of Chem. & Environ. Eng., California Univ.,
Riverside, CA, USA); Wistrom, A.O.
Source:Europhysics Letters, v59, n4, 15 Aug. 2002, p521-5
Database: INSPEC


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From: "Doug Marett" <doug.marett sympatico.ca>
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Subject: Re: electric rotation article
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Hi Dave and vortex,

    I checked that reference - that was very useful. The full reference =
with abstract and erratum is below, which can also be found at:
http://ojps.aip.org/getabs/servlet/GetabsServlet?prog=3Dnormal&id=3DAPPLA=
B000080000015002800000001&idtype=3Dcvips&gifs=3Dyes

You can order the article online, but it is $20.
I am surprised that it was already published a year ago!

Doug

Applied Physics Letters -- April 15, 2002 -- Volume 80, Issue 15, pp. =
2800-2801=20

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------

Coulomb motor by rotation of spherical conductors via the electrostatic =
force
  Anders O. Wistrom and Armik V. M. Khachatourian=20
  Department of Chemical and Environmental Engineering, University of =
California, Riverside, California 92521=20

(Received 22 October 2001; accepted 17 February 2002)=20

Three spherical conductors fixed in space and held at constant potential =
produces a rotational force that causes the conductors to rotate about =
their axis. The motor is described by an expression for the moment of =
force given by Coulomb's law complemented by Gauss' law of the electric =
potential. The observed rotation is likely to be general and apply to =
machines of all size scales where the electrostatic force is the =
dominant operative force. This would include systems ranging in size =
from molecular to macroscopic and be useful for devices that require =
rotational motion. =A92002 American Institute of Physics.=20


See Also=20

  a.. Erratum: "Coulomb motor by rotation of spherical conductors via =
the electrostatic force" [Appl. Phys. Lett. 80, 2800 (2002)]
  Anders O. Wistrom et al.
  Appl. Phys. Lett. 81, 4871 (2002)=20


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Dave and vortex,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I checked&nbsp;that =
reference -=20
that was very useful. The full reference with abstract and erratum is =
below,=20
which can also be found at:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://ojps.aip.org/getabs/servlet/GetabsServlet?prog=3Dnormal&am=
p;id=3DAPPLAB000080000015002800000001&amp;idtype=3Dcvips&amp;gifs=3Dyes">=
http://ojps.aip.org/getabs/servlet/GetabsServlet?prog=3Dnormal&amp;id=3DA=
PPLAB000080000015002800000001&amp;idtype=3Dcvips&amp;gifs=3Dyes</A></FONT=
></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You can order the article online, but =
it is=20
$20.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am surprised that it was already =
published a year=20
ago!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Doug</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<H3>Applied Physics Letters -- April 15, 2002 -- Volume 80, Issue 15, =
pp.=20
2800-2801 </H3>
<HR SIZE=3D1>
<!-- Component: abstract -->
<H3>Coulomb motor by rotation of spherical conductors via the =
electrostatic=20
force</H3>
<DL>
  <DD>Anders O. Wistrom and Armik V. M. Khachatourian=20
  <DD><I><FONT size=3D-1>Department of Chemical and Environmental =
Engineering,=20
  University of California, Riverside, California 92521 </FONT></I>
  <DD></DD></DL>
<P>
<P>(Received 22 October 2001; accepted 17 February 2002)=20
<P>Three<SUP> </SUP>spherical conductors fixed in space and held at =
constant=20
potential<SUP> </SUP>produces a rotational force that causes the =
conductors to=20
rotate<SUP> </SUP>about their axis. The motor is described by an =
expression<SUP>=20
</SUP>for the moment of force given by Coulomb's law complemented<SUP> =
</SUP>by=20
Gauss' law of the electric potential. The observed rotation<SUP> =
</SUP>is likely=20
to be general and apply to machines of<SUP> </SUP>all size scales where =
the=20
electrostatic force is the dominant<SUP> </SUP>operative force. This =
would=20
include systems ranging in size from<SUP> </SUP>molecular to macroscopic =
and be=20
useful for devices that require<SUP> </SUP>rotational motion. =A9<I>2002 =
American=20
Institute of Physics.</I> <SUP></SUP></P>
<P><BR>See Also </P>
<UL>
  <LI>Erratum: "Coulomb motor by rotation of spherical conductors via =
the=20
  electrostatic force" [Appl. Phys. Lett. <B>80</B>, 2800 =
(2002)]<BR>Anders O.=20
  Wistrom <I>et al.</I><BR><A=20
  href=3D"http://link.aip.org/link/?APL/81/4871/1">Appl. Phys. Lett. =
<B>81</B>,=20
  4871 (2002)</A> </LI></UL></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Thanks John and Dave.

Unfortunately, I've not heard from the good Doctor.
No doubt his in-box is swimming in nutters, as you
folks across the pond like to say.

Michaels description was very clear, and in fact
I went looking around the apartment for some
cans. No empties to be found, I'm considering
styrofoam balls wrapped in tin foil. Everyone
agree this would be reasonable? I like Michaels
idea about the wet thread, corona will begin
to be a real problem at 10KV. Very clever, Mike.

I have a Glassman 50KV supply which is analog
metered and I can probably see down to .02mA
I have some real sensitive analog meters for
current, but I'm a little afraid to use them
for such an experiment.

I suspect I'm going to see current flow when
those balls start turning, but here's hoping
otherwise.

K.

-----Original Message-----
From: John Winterflood [mailto:jwinter cyllene.uwa.edu.au]
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 11:23 AM
To: Vortex
Subject: Re: new physical phenomenon


A quick check of the Inspec database yields :

<RECORD 1>
Electrostatic interaction force between planar surfaces due to 3-D
distribution of sources of potential (charge)
Khachatourian, A.V.M. (Dept. of Chem. & Environ. Eng.,
California Univ., Riverside, CA, USA); Wistrom, A.O.
Source:Journal of Physical Chemistry B, v102, n14, 2 April 1998, p2483-93
Database: INSPEC

<RECORD 2>
Calibration of the electrostatic force between spheres at constant potential
Wistrom, A.O. (California Univ., Riverside, CA, USA); Khachatourian, A.V.
Source:Measurement Science & Technology, v10, n12, Dec. 1999, p1296-9
Database: INSPEC

<RECORD 3>
Coulomb motor by rotation of spherical conductors via the electrostatic
force
Wistrom, A.O. (Dept. of Chem. & Environ. Eng., California Univ., Riverside,
CA, USA); Khachatourian, A.V.M.
Source:Applied Physics Letters, v80, n15, 15 April 2002, p2800-1
Database: INSPEC

<RECORD 4>
Electrostatic rotation of spherical conductors
Khachatourian, A.V.M. (Dept. of Chem. & Environ. Eng., California Univ.,
Riverside, CA, USA); Wistrom, A.O.
Source:Europhysics Letters, v59, n4, 15 Aug. 2002, p521-5
Database: INSPEC



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Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 09:16:29 -0800
From: Jones Beene <jonesb9 pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: new physical phenomenon
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: Edmund Storms 

Jones, the Second Law has no relationship to this issue.  The Second Law only applies to a closed system where the flow of energy in all forms can be observed.  In this case, you have an open system into which energy from the outside, ie ZPE, is allowed.    Once this additional energy is taken into account, the Second Law again becomes exact.  This error is so common, yet so important to an understanding of thermodynamics, I have to wonder why. 


Hi Ed,

Well this all began as a little light-hearted amusement...in the tradition of April 1...but since you brought it up...

Why would you assume that ZPE necessarily comes from "outside the closed system" ?

ZPE could well be intrinsic to all systmes, and if so, then why can't it be said to be a previously under-appreciated part of the system? 

Jones


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Jones Beene wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Edmund Storms
>
> Jones, the Second Law has no relationship to this issue.  The Second Law only applies to a closed system where the flow of energy in all forms can be observed.  In this case, you have an open system into which energy from the outside, ie ZPE, is allowed.    Once this additional energy is taken into account, the Second Law again becomes exact.  This error is so common, yet so important to an understanding of thermodynamics, I have to wonder why.
>
> Hi Ed,
>
> Well this all began as a little light-hearted amusement...in the tradition of April 1...but since you brought it up...
>
> Why would you assume that ZPE necessarily comes from "outside the closed system" ?
>
> ZPE could well be intrinsic to all systmes, and if so, then why can't it be said to be a previously under-appreciated part of the system?

The Laws of thermodynamics apply only to energy that can be identified and measured.  The concept of a "closed" system refers to a system for which all sources of energy are known, i.e.  closed to any other source of energy.  If an unknown source of energy is operating, the Laws do not apply.  For example, cold fusion produces anomalous energy.  Once this energy is shown to result from nuclear reactions, the Laws can be applied.  Before that fact
was realized, the Laws could not be applied in that case, even though the Laws were still valid for other situations.  A mistake is made when the Laws are assumed to be invalid when anomalous energy is found or the anomalous energy is invalid because it seems to conflict with the Laws.  The correct approach is to say that the Laws do not apply until the source of anomalous energy is found.

Thanks for asking, Jones.

Ed

>
>
> Jones

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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr  4 11:48:16 2003
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Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 15:03:27 -0500
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Hi All,

Just bought the styro balls, and I noticed that
word of this has reached slashdot.org. I feel
sorry for Anders, he's about to receive a sound
slashdotting. UC servers will buckle and collapse under
the strain, I assure you.

Ed's comments are a bit opaque to me. I agree
with what he's saying, but it's naturally assumed
that the system is closed when you invoke the
conservation laws. In the case of this new
motor, I expect to see current flow in a
real physical system with losses. That's the
energy source, the power supply. If not, then
we have a real free energy machine. I'm betting
on the former, but I should know within the
hour. It would still be mysterious if I see
current flow but no ionic wind effect. Towards
that end, as the claim is that this device
does not draw current, would it not follow that I
could coat the balls with plastic and achieve
the same result? I will try both.

K.

-----Original Message-----
From: Edmund Storms [mailto:storms2 ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 12:42 PM
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: new physical phenomenon




Jones Beene wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Edmund Storms
>
> Jones, the Second Law has no relationship to this issue.  The Second Law
only applies to a closed system where the flow of energy in all forms can be
observed.  In this case, you have an open system into which energy from the
outside, ie ZPE, is allowed.    Once this additional energy is taken into
account, the Second Law again becomes exact.  This error is so common, yet
so important to an understanding of thermodynamics, I have to wonder why.
>
> Hi Ed,
>
> Well this all began as a little light-hearted amusement...in the tradition
of April 1...but since you brought it up...
>
> Why would you assume that ZPE necessarily comes from "outside the closed
system" ?
>
> ZPE could well be intrinsic to all systmes, and if so, then why can't it
be said to be a previously under-appreciated part of the system?

The Laws of thermodynamics apply only to energy that can be identified and
measured.  The concept of a "closed" system refers to a system for which all
sources of energy are known, i.e.  closed to any other source of energy.  If
an unknown source of energy is operating, the Laws do not apply.  For
example, cold fusion produces anomalous energy.  Once this energy is shown
to result from nuclear reactions, the Laws can be applied.  Before that fact
was realized, the Laws could not be applied in that case, even though the
Laws were still valid for other situations.  A mistake is made when the Laws
are assumed to be invalid when anomalous energy is found or the anomalous
energy is invalid because it seems to conflict with the Laws.  The correct
approach is to say that the Laws do not apply until the source of anomalous
energy is found.

Thanks for asking, Jones.

Ed

>
>
> Jones

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Subject: Experimental test of Anders Electrostatic motor.
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 16:01:47 -0500
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OK, Here's the story thus far.

3 styrofoam balls, 3" in diameter, Al foil coated.
Hung from 3 separate threads, length 1.5'.
Think of a pawn shop sign, and you have the
right idea for what it looks like.

I had a false start, using sewing thread,
which was too poor a conductor. Switched
to cake box type thread, soaked with water.
Power supply set to produce positive charge.

At 30KV (!!!) achieved ball separation,
as you would expect for an electrometer
type circuit. Much higher than Mikes
claim of 10KV. Did you measure the voltage?
Or are your supporting threads much longer?

As voltage increased, balls spread further
and began to oscillate back and forth, towards
the center. At about 45KV, they began to rotate,
but just barely, back and forth. I cannot
say that I saw the effect, as the system
was VERY sensitive to oscillation at that
point. No preferred direction of rotation
either, just oscillation.

I tried putting a ground underneath the
setup, which stabilized things somewhat
but did not seem to change the results.

Anyone want to make a suggestion whilst
I have my balls hanging (grin).

K.

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In a message dated 4/4/2003 2:06:58 PM Mountain Standard Time, knagel gis.net 
writes:

> Anyone want to make a suggestion whilst
> I have my balls hanging (grin).
> 

Just don't let your 30KV balls get too close to ground  ---------

                                                                           
Ken

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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=
=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 4/4/2003 2:06:58 PM Mountain Standa=
rd Time, knagel gis.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT=
: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Anyone want to make a suggestio=
n whilst<BR>
I have my balls hanging (grin).<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Just don't let your 30KV balls get too close to ground&nbsp; ---------<BR>
<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ken</FONT><=
/HTML>

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K,

> Anyone want to make a suggestion whilst
> I have my balls hanging (grin).

Like Jerry Lee, you got a "Whole Lotta Shakin' " from those "Great Balls of Fire"... But maybe the setup should look more like Stagger Lee and less like Isoscelee...

That is to say, why not try a little asymmetry in the spatial arrangement? 





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Keith Nagel wrote:
> 
> OK, Here's the story thus far.
> 
> 3 styrofoam balls, 3" in diameter, Al foil coated.
> Hung from 3 separate threads, length 1.5'.
> Think of a pawn shop sign, and you have the
> right idea for what it looks like.
> 
I never saw a pawn shop sign and Google search was not so helpful.
Would you describe it more?

Any movement with a single ball setup?

Or all 3 balls on one thread, vertically aligned.

You may also try a  xmas tree decoration ball.

Regards,

hamdi ucar

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OK, nuff jokes, cause let me tell ya,
I get pretty aggressive when my balls are
charged to 50KV...

It SEEMED like it wanted to turn, so I stopped
coding and took a few minutes to return to the
experiment.

This time, I changed the suspension so that
the threads are tied together at the top,
and only a single thread connects to the
alligator clip, about 1" worth. MUCH easier to turn, and
again I cranked up the Glassman right
up to 50KV. By the way, Mike's suggestion
of wet threads is just brilliant, no
corona at all. Having to rewet the
threads is a drag, but it's the RIGHT
way to do this.

The ground crackled a bit, the balls
seperated and began to bob, but no real
rotation other than about a 30degree
back and forth motion. If you do this
yourself, you'll see what I mean about
the thing being sensitive. I tried giving
it a nudge with a long wooden dowel, and
managed to avoid electrocuting myself,
but still nothing.

Not sure what Jones means by assymetry,
I can make a thread longer or shorter
and indeed did so with no noticable
effect.

Hamdi, I've never seen a pawn shop either,
but the symbol looks like a cluster of
three cherries. A single ball will do nothing
but hang there. And it may surprise you
to know that, despite having christian
parents, I have no christmas ornaments (grin).
The only time old scrooge (me) set up a tree,
I used capacitors and inductors to decorate
it. Everyone thought it was groovy. It's
about as far as I dare venture into organized
religion....

K.



-----Original Message-----
From: Jones Beene [mailto:jonesb9 pacbell.net]
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 5:10 PM
To: vortex
Subject: Re: Experimental test of Anders Electrostatic motor.


K,

> Anyone want to make a suggestion whilst
> I have my balls hanging (grin).

Like Jerry Lee, you got a "Whole Lotta Shakin' " from those "Great Balls of
Fire"... But maybe the setup should look more like Stagger Lee and less like
Isoscelee...

That is to say, why not try a little asymmetry in the spatial arrangement?






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Well, nice try Keith.  First, you congratulated the wrong Mike on the wet thread idea.  That would be Mike Faraday, not Mike Foster.  Actually, I think this idea originated with Stephen Gray, the discoverer of electrical conductivity.  However, I think Gray and Faraday are past caring at this time.

Using aluminum foil covered styrofoam balls is probably not optimum for this experiment for two reasons.  One is the lack of mass for stability.  The other is that unless you are highly skilled at covering styrofoam with Al foil, the irregularities on the surface will cause excess corona leakage effects and create unpredictable oscillations of just the sort you describe.

I measured the voltage right at the surface of my soda cans with an electrostatic voltmeter.  Although you didn't say so, I surmise that you are measuring your voltage by the output setting of your power supply, which voltage is unlikely to be maintained all the way through the thread and your probably leaky irregular Al foil.

I am seemingly eccentric in my adhering to the use of my frictional PVC pipe generator, but it produces voltages in excess of 250 kV very easily.  This is quite handy if you are shy of being knocked unconcious again from an electronic power supply, but you would like a voltage high enough to conduct well along even dry thread.  BTW, if you would like a more conductive thread that stays wet indefinitely, you just make a solution of about 50-50 water and glycerine and then add salt to taste (yum).  You soak the thread in this solution.  The salt improves the conductivity and the glycerine is hygroscopic, attracting moisture from the air.  As you can tell, I spend far too much time playing around with this type of thing.

I haven't yet repeated my experiment, but will post my results when I do.

M. 


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K.

"Not sure what Jones means by asymmetry, I can make a thread longer or shorter and indeed did so with no noticable effect."

OK. Here's another pinata swing. 

This applet may be intuitive...or not.
http://www2.biglobe.ne.jp/~norimari/science/JavaApp/e-Quark.html

Use your imagination to transpose this to your setup. If you isolate your three strings at the top so that there is NO non-inductive electrical linkage between the three balls, and connect only one of the balls to the power supply, you should get the basic pulsation that is depicted in this applet.

Note: When the orange ball is dislocated axially (use your mouse) you can get a net circular rotation over time (using the stobe function). Its not exact and it takes a little practice, but it gives a glimmer of how these mechanics may be operating because of the three-part connected asymmetry...

If that doesn't help, I'll have to sneak a peak through the bandana...

Jones


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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: WHAT'S NEW     Friday, 4 Apr 03
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 17:06:27 -0500
From: "What's New" <opa aps.org>
Reply-To: opa aps.org
To: "What's New" <whatsnew lists.apsmsgs.org>

WHAT'S NEW   Robert L. Park   Friday, 4 Apr 03   Washington, DC

1. PRESIDENTIAL SECRECY: WHAT IS IT THEY'RE TRYING TO COVER UP? 
The 1978 Presidential Records Act made records of past presidents
available for Congressional investigations.  The President,
however, was allowed to invoke executive privilege if disclosure
would threaten national security or reveal the deliberative
processes of the executive branch.  You probably thought we'd
progressed beyond the custom of hereditary authority, but in
November 2001, Executive Order 13233, "Further Implementation of
the Presidential Records Act," extended that executive privilege
to a deceased President's descendants.  Warning that Executive
Order 13233 could severely limit investigations of former
Administrations, Rep. Doug Ose (R-CA) has now introduced a bill
to revoke the order.  Just last week, we reported that President
Bush had signed yet another Executive Order that would postpone
automatic declassification of documents from the same era. 

2. EPHEDRA: WELL, NOW THAT YOU BRING UP SCIENTIFIC PROOF...  The
American Heart Association has joined the chorus calling for a
federal ban on ephedra, a herbal stimulant linked serious side
effects including heart attack and stroke (WN 14 Mar 03).  A
spokesman for the powerful ephedrine industry snorted that a ban
would be "irresponsible," since the allegations against ephedra
had not been "proven scientifically."  That's the problem, isn't
it?  Neither has ephedra been proven safe.  As a result of the
1994 Dietary Supplement and Health Education Act (DSHEA), the
herbal market is totally unregulated: herbal products don't have
to be proven safe or effective.  But in the case of ephedra, the
bodies are starting to pile up (WN 14 Mar 03).

3. MISSILE DEFENSE: HOW IS THE "NEW" PATRIOT DOING?  Compared to
what, you might ask?  We could compare it to the old Patriot
Advanced Capability (PAC-2) used in the 1991 Gulf War, but that
sets the bar pretty low. (Maybe one Scud in the whole war.)  As
of Monday, a count by the Center for Defense Information put the
number of Iraqi Ababil-100 missiles launched at 13.  These are
slower and have shorter range than the Scud. Patriot missiles
reportedly intercepted eight, but only a few of the most advanced
version of the Patriot, the PAC-3, have been used. 

4. PRAYER HEALING: WELL WHAT DID YOU EXPECT FROM "PARADE"?  WN
got a lot of mail from people who read "Why Prayer Could Be Good
Medicine." As near as WN could tell, no one on Earth doubts that
sick people who pray may derive some sort of emotional benefit,
perhaps even improving their prognosis.  The only question with
any religious implications is whether intercessory prayer, prayer
offered by others without the knowledge of the patient, helps.
The answer will not be found by reading Parade.  Elsewhere, In
Touch Ministries distributed a pamphlet to troops: "A Christian's
Duty in a Time of War."  It included a helpful scripture from
Romans 13:1 "Every person is to be in subjugation to the
governing authorities.  For there is no authority except from
God..."  This was the basis of the Devine Right of Kings.

THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND and THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY.  
Opinions are the author's and are not necessarily shared by the
University or the American Physical Society, but they should be.
---
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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr  4 17:15:16 2003
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From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: "Vortex" <vortex-l eskimo.com>, <michael.foster@excite.com>
Subject: RE: Experimental test of Anders Electrostatic motor.
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 20:31:32 -0500
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Hi Mike.

I worried about the foil smoothness too, but as there
are no "year 'round" christmas ornament stores
I'm stuck. I just asked the landlord, and he's not got
either can nor ball. He said, "Well go out and buy three
cans" and I said "Sure John, I'll drink 3
cans of beer and play with the 50KV power
supply and the empties". Wheee! ZAPP!

OK, enough whinging then, I score
3 cans from the local bodega. Those
short cans, they're cheaper and
I figure a closer approximation
to a sphere. I drain them (burp), take
my old string, and re-affix to
the new cans. Balance things, wet
up the strings, and fire up the
Glassman. Now the cans are heavy,
as I fear, and it takes about 40KV
to get separation. And they do hiss
a bit, more than the balls
with the foil. Still, things are
pretty steady, only slight bobbing
after a few seconds of running. Pretty
stable in fact. I could dope up the
can tops, and probably get the
ionic currents down further...

And things are rock steady. Not the slightest
hint of rotation. The ball's in
your court folks, I'm not seeing
anything too promising.

I will note, that there is no movement
of the meter, so my ionic currents
are well under control. It's a 1 mA
power supply, so even though I'm measuring
voltage at the supply side I've plenty
of current to sustain the voltage. In
fact, the current meter isn't even
moving, too low to measure ( <20uA ).

If only I could achieve zero friction... (grin).

K.

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Foster [mailto:michael.foster excite.com]
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 5:49 PM
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: RE: Experimental test of Anders Electrostatic motor.



Well, nice try Keith.  First, you congratulated the wrong Mike on the wet
thread idea.  That would be Mike Faraday, not Mike Foster.  Actually, I
think this idea originated with Stephen Gray, the discoverer of electrical
conductivity.  However, I think Gray and Faraday are past caring at this
time.

Using aluminum foil covered styrofoam balls is probably not optimum for this
experiment for two reasons.  One is the lack of mass for stability.  The
other is that unless you are highly skilled at covering styrofoam with Al
foil, the irregularities on the surface will cause excess corona leakage
effects and create unpredictable oscillations of just the sort you describe.

I measured the voltage right at the surface of my soda cans with an
electrostatic voltmeter.  Although you didn't say so, I surmise that you are
measuring your voltage by the output setting of your power supply, which
voltage is unlikely to be maintained all the way through the thread and your
probably leaky irregular Al foil.

I am seemingly eccentric in my adhering to the use of my frictional PVC pipe
generator, but it produces voltages in excess of 250 kV very easily.  This
is quite handy if you are shy of being knocked unconcious again from an
electronic power supply, but you would like a voltage high enough to conduct
well along even dry thread.  BTW, if you would like a more conductive thread
that stays wet indefinitely, you just make a solution of about 50-50 water
and glycerine and then add salt to taste (yum).  You soak the thread in this
solution.  The salt improves the conductivity and the glycerine is
hygroscopic, attracting moisture from the air.  As you can tell, I spend far
too much time playing around with this type of thing.

I haven't yet repeated my experiment, but will post my results when I do.

M.


_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!


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To: Vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: ehhhh, it's just gas jets
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On Thu, 3 Apr 2003, Dave wrote:

> If you are looking for the reference for the Anders Wistrom electric
> rotation article, I believe it is as shown below.
>
> Applied Physics Letters--April 15, 2002
> Volume 80, Issue 15, pp. 2625-2806
>

If it wasn't performed in hard vacuum, then it's almost certainly an
ion-wind effect.

Measure the current being fed to the spheres.  If it's not zero, then the
spheres are emitting charge into the air, and when the surrounding e-field
accelerates this charged wind, a reaction force appears.  A sphere
connected to high voltage will develop a "hotspot" of corona discharge,
and that spot will take in air from the sides and emit charged air
radially.  If the sphere has no tiny imperfections, then the position of
this "hotspot" on the sphere can wander around.  I've noticed this sort of
thing on VandeGraaff generator spheres.  A similar phenomenon is common
with "plasma globe" toys, but in that case the corona discharge is very
visible.   At low voltage the glow discharge does not envelope the entire
sphere, instead it takes the form of a small wandering patch.

Still, an asymmetrical ion-wind effect is interesting.  The LOCATION of
the corona discharge which spews ions is probably determined only feebly
by the charges on neighboring spheres, so any relative wind could move it
around.  If the three spheres move a bit, the location of the air-spewing
discharge would automatically move to a position downwind, and therefore
the reaction force would push the spheres in the direction they were
already moving.  A cool example of symmetry-breaking!  The system would be
unstable in it's unmoving state, and the slightest system noise would send
it spinning in one direction or another.

Put each sphere in its own plastic bag and see if the effect goes away.
Or give them a very thick coat of RTV silicone caulk.


(((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                            SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                            http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair
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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr  4 20:07:04 2003
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Bill Beaty wrote:

> If it wasn't performed in hard vacuum, then it's almost certainly an
> ion-wind effect.
>

I was thinking about that too. But corona motors are really old hat. You
would think that they would have controlled for that. Has anyone got the
actual article and can comment on whether they took ion wind into account?

Doug



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Apr  5 09:12:46 2003
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Subject: Anders paper online
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Hi All.

Wading through the crap of slashdot comments, hunting
for that nugget of gold...

http://homepage.mac.com/awaspaas/rotation.pdf

The Applied Physics Letters article in PDF. Enjoy.

It goes without saying, that the phenomena described
by Mike is quite different than that described in
this paper. I will redo the experiment next week
to fit Anders claims. Of course, I urge Mike
to try and reproduce his results, I'd like to
know where I'm going wrong with my replication.

K.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Apr  5 11:17:56 2003
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Subject: Large anti-gravity file
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:14:35 -0800
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C2FB64.8A857A60
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="Windows-1252"
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If you have a broadband connection and an interest in Russian =
anti-gravity research (esp Podkletnov) there is a large (40 meg) pdf =
file in English at

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/gravity/gravitsapa.pdf

along with assorted other stuff, such as the Russian slant on the =
current situation.

The file took about 45 minutes with DSL to download, so the problem is =
probably a slow server on their end.

I haven't yet found much new in the 1300 page file, except one reference =
to the Russian inventor Ivan Stepanovitch Filimonenko, who is said to =
have preceded P&F by 27 years but may never get the credit he deserves =
if CF does eventually amount to anything...  from other info:
"In 1962 Filimonenko got a Russian patent #717239/38 "Process and System =
for Thermo-emission". Main claim of Filimonenko's process is the =
electrolysis of heavy water. The absorption of deuterium take place in =
hard cathode ( palladium ) and it is the place for fusion reaction. =
There are no neutron emission for this case."

This may be one reason that Utah let the P&F patent lapse - as, if it =
were ever challenged in court... it was apparently lacking in =
originality!

All Filimonenko's works was stopped in 1968. Inventor got 6 years of =
prison to stop his activity against the State-supported nuclear =
programmes.=20

Now there is some real "free energy" suppression, cold war style !

Jones

------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C2FB64.8A857A60
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	charset="Windows-1252"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"><BASE=20
href=3D"file://C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft =
Shared\Stationery\">
<STYLE>BODY {
	BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; MARGIN-TOP: 25px; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 25px; COLOR: #000000; BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial
}
</STYLE>

<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>If you have a broadband connection and an interest in Russian =
anti-gravity=20
research (esp Podkletnov) there is a large (40 meg) pdf file in=20
English&nbsp;at</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><A=20
href=3D"http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/gravity/gravitsapa.pdf">http://=
www.aeronautics.ru/archive/gravity/gravitsapa.pdf</A></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>along with assorted other stuff, such as the Russian slant on the =
current=20
situation.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The file took about 45 minutes with DSL to download, so the problem =
is=20
probably a slow server on their end.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTimesNewRomanPSMT size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTimesNewRomanPSMT size=3D3>I haven't yet found much =
new in the=20
1300 page file, except one reference to the Russian inventor Ivan =
Stepanovitch=20
Filimonenko, who is said to have preceded P&amp;F by 27 years but may =
never get=20
the credit he deserves if CF does eventually amount to anything...&nbsp; =
from=20
other info:</DIV>
<DIV>
<P align=3Dleft>"In 1962 Filimonenko got a Russian patent #717239/38 =
"Process and=20
System for Thermo-emission". Main claim of Filimonenko's process is the=20
electrolysis of heavy water. The absorption of deuterium take place in =
hard=20
cathode ( palladium ) and it is the place for fusion reaction. There are =
no=20
neutron emission for this case."</P>
<P align=3Dleft>This may be one reason that Utah let the P&amp;F patent =
lapse=20
-&nbsp;as,&nbsp;if it were ever challenged in court...&nbsp;it was =
apparently=20
lacking in originality!</P>
<P align=3Dleft>All Filimonenko's works was stopped in 1968. Inventor =
got 6 years=20
of prison to stop his activity against the State-supported nuclear =
programmes.=20
</P>
<P align=3Dleft>Now there is some real "free energy" suppression, cold =
war style=20
!</P>
<P align=3Dleft>Jones</P></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_003D_01C2FB64.8A857A60--

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On Fri, 4 Apr 2003, Doug Marett wrote:

> I was thinking about that too. But corona motors are really old hat. You
> would think that they would have controlled for that. Has anyone got the
> actual article and can comment on whether they took ion wind into account?

If they're young physicists they may have very little knowledge of
real-world electrostatics, and the reaction forces from electric wind
might never occur to them.  Or maybe they believe that a polished sphere
cannot support corona at sphere-voltages below the theoretical
air-breakdown threshold.  In practice a corona is much like a spark: it
just needs a momentary high voltage to start up, and then it can persist
even though the voltage on the electrode is very low.  Or instead of a
momentary high voltage, a drifting dust mote can do it.

I vaguely recall a drawing of a corona-spinner which instead of being a
"swastika" shape with sharp points, it had very thin vertical wires at the
ends of two layers of support arms ("vertical" being parallel to the
rotation axis.)  The thin wires act like sharp edges which spew ions, but
they are "disembodied" edges with no neighboring conductive plane to make
them asymmetrical or to produce a jet of air having a fixed direction.
As I understand it, such a device would drive itself CCW or CW depending
on the direction of any initial spin.  Yet it SEEMS symmetrical, as if it
has no reason to spin at all.  The thin wires would be analogous to the
spheres.

Analogy: a ramjet engine which works just as well forwards as backwards,
but must first be moving fast before it can work at all.


(((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                            SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                            http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair
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On Sat, 5 Apr 2003, Keith Nagel wrote:

> Wading through the crap of slashdot comments, hunting
> for that nugget of gold...
>
> http://homepage.mac.com/awaspaas/rotation.pdf


Thanks!

Aha.  It says "hence the current flow was negligable."   That's very
suspicious.  It sounds like they might be talking themselves into
believing that the current was too small to matter, but without simply
measuring the damn current and SHOWING that it's negligable.

If they did this sucessfully, they'd find that they're doing a Free Energy
demonstration.  A motor drive with only voltage but zero current has zero
power input, and is a perpetual motion machine.

If not, then they've discovered a FE device which taps the ZPE or
something, and therefore spins even though the input power is zero
(voltage without current.)



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billb eskimo.com                            http://amasci.com
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To: Vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Fast-spinning cylinder
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Here's a vaguely similar phenomenon

  JL Naudin: PFT motor
  http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/pftm2.htm

The above "bottle-motor" has no brushes to make it asymmetrical.  It spins
CW or CCW depending on initial manual spin.  It runs at 3000RPM, 30KV,
100uA.



(((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                            SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                            http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair
Seattle, WA  206-789-0775    unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Apr  6 07:01:59 2003
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From: "Nicholas Reiter" <nreiter woh.rr.com>
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Gentlemen,

It has been a while, but this morning I have two topics to hand out:

1.  Another update on apparent modification of radioactive decay by common
baker's yeast has been posted on Dr. Sam Faile's website:
http://www.geocities.com/spfaile/FurtherEvidence.html  Things get more fun
when we add lithium and nano-particle titania.

2.  A non-Vortex friend now living in Hawaii is trying to find a hobbyist or
tech who would be interested in building MOSFET switching and pulsing
circuits for his experimental apparatus that he hopes will produce EM and
gravity anomalies.  The device is a solid state sequenced coil version of
the old counter-rotating magnet coil set scheme.  If anyone is up for
joining Paul on this project, please reply through me off-line at my home
e-mail address nreiter woh.rr.com

Best regards,

NR

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Apr  6 10:51:44 2003
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PFT motor point out the necessity of use of vacuum and very
clean metal surface having high  electrical conductance. Otherwise:

- Very fine dust, smoke or invisible particles in nm size suspended
in air could adhere to metal surface and effectively carry charges.

- Same particles without adhering to surface but being charges at
proximity of the surfaces may cause air circulation and may rotate
the spheres by air friction.

- Grease, ,paint, oxides including Al oxide could be charged.

Faraday cage may also need be used. Currents of all spheres, 
including the ground should be monitored in pA range. It would be
better to electrically isolate the uncharged sphere and ground it 
once just after applying voltage to other spheres.


William Beaty wrote:
> 
> Here's a vaguely similar phenomenon
> 
>   JL Naudin: PFT motor
>   http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/pftm2.htm
> 
> The above "bottle-motor" has no brushes to make it asymmetrical.  It spins
> CW or CCW depending on initial manual spin.  It runs at 3000RPM, 30KV,
> 100uA.
> 

Regards,

hamdi ucar

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--- William Beaty <billb eskimo.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Apr 2003, Keith Nagel wrote:
> 
> > Wading through the crap of slashdot comments,
> hunting
> > for that nugget of gold...
> >
> > http://homepage.mac.com/awaspaas/rotation.pdf
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Aha.  It says "hence the current flow was
> negligable."   That's very
> suspicious.  It sounds like they might be talking
> themselves into
> believing that the current was too small to matter,
> but without simply
> measuring the damn current and SHOWING that it's
> negligable.
> 
> If they did this sucessfully, they'd find that
> they're doing a Free Energy
> demonstration.  A motor drive with only voltage but
> zero current has zero
> power input, and is a perpetual motion machine.
> 
> If not, then they've discovered a FE device which
> taps the ZPE or
> something, and therefore spins even though the input
> power is zero
> (voltage without current.)
(Note: this reply got me to thinking of similar
subjects so I ended up going a little off topic, but
nevertheless it provides some experimental data
regarding the losses involved with converting a AC
voltage potential obtained by resonance into a DC
voltage by full wave rectification. I had often
thought that "lifter designs" might obtain their
needed high voltages by a resonant rise of voltage by
mechanical generators,then to be further rectified by
conventional diode systems; however these results show
a slew of problems that may be involved with using
large inductances in resonance to create voltage rise
by resonance, and then a further rectifcation to
obtain DC at high voltage.)
This (above cited URL)sounds suspiciously like a
priniciple of the Biefeld Brown effect. Since the
voltage was fairly high, an initial charge deposit on
the spheres demands that charge movement occured to
make that charge deposit, and since the source was DC,
the only further charge input to the device would be
that lost through the air as capacitive leakage
reactance. I would suppose that JLN lifter
replications show that when a certain voltage is
reached, the leakage of potential through the air
becomes appreciable enough to measure, and a
"contininual" current input is measurable because of
these comparatively large amounts of charge loss as
leakage reactance. An interesting phenomenon is also
entailed with voltage losses made by the diodes
themselves, in the conversion of AC to DC, when the
voltage souce is that of resonant voltage rise. I once
thought that a rectified high voltage from resonant
voltage sources might be applied for lifter designs.
However the losses in the conversion from AC to DC are
indeed phenomenal, and might be accounted for by the
actual resistance of the diodes in the non conducting
direction. The coil system I use for voltage gain at
60 hz has an estimated Q of around 30. However when
placed with a water/glass barrier between the
potentials, this actually reduces the q factor
according to the "neglible" amount of current flow
that would exist according to the neglible capacitive
reactance that the water/glass barrier provides. A
variac test for the AC shows that ~38 volts will yeild
900 volts AC across the dielectric barrier. Thus the
reduced q factor appears to  about 900/38 = ~23.7.
Now diodes can be placed across this same resonant
voltage source, and the ratios compared. This is
exactly how I prepare colloidal silver water that is
"current limited" by resonance.  Typically I start out
with a short across the potentials that is a measured
current limited to 1.22 ma, to prevent large silver
oxide deposits from developing on the coins. A 14 volt
variac will enable only 114 DC volts to develope
across the coins in air.  This is only a 8.14 voltage
gain factor. Thus the same voltage before
rectification at the same variac setting would be some
330 volts, becoming only 114 volts DC after
rectification. Typically when the coins are then
immersed into distilled water the voltage is then
reduced to ~ 30 volts. After some 8 hours or so this
voltage will have fallen some 6 fold to ~ 5 volts
across the coins. A battery test afterwards shows that
now 4 times the current will exist as compared to the
current that would exist when the same battery source
was used for the initial conductivity test. Thus the
deposit of silver ions into the solution has increased
the water's conductivity, and this is visully observed
as a grey tint into the water.
    An interesting experiment can be made from this
point. It is the reactance in ohms of the coils
themselves that might serve as a reference point. The
coils  used to create voltage rise in 60 hz resonance
have a reactance of 20,000 ohms apiece,and when the
circuit is operated as a tank, these two ohmic values
appear in series as 40,000 ohms. The open circuit
voltage appares to be reduced ~ three fold by
conversion of AC to DC by diodes placed as a full wave
rectification. Therefore we might propose that the
ohmic values of the diodes in reverse conduction, if
this were 3 times the value of the existant reactance
before rectification, this might account for the three
fold reduction in output voltages made with the
conversion of AC to DC. It does not seem unreasonable
to conclude that two diodes in series, that block the
current on one figure 8 side of the portion allowing
for blockage of current would express itself as an
ohmic value of 120,000 ohms. This also may be
comparable the the inital resistance of the distilled
water, thus immering the coins into the water does not
technically present itself as a near infinite
resistance.  Now what could be done from this point to
ascertain if this was the culprit responsible for the
AC to DC voltage drop: that the diode system itself
has an appreciable resistance in the nonconducting
regimen compared to the impedance of the system used
to create the voltage rise, A useful experiment would
then be to try the same procedure with an similarly
formed voltage rise system, that instead has a much
smaller internal impedance, and to then compare the
drops of voltage percentage wise that develope in that
conversion. A similar system has been made using AC
alternator inputs at 480 hz, but that coil system has
ohmic values of only ~12 ohms per side, compared to
the 60 hz resonance system that uses 1000 ohm, 60
henry coils on each side.

Rechecking the 60 hz system I find that the voltage
source that enables 900 volts AC to develope with a 36
volt variac input enables only a 140 volt input to the
diode system, becoming 173 volts DC potential across
the silver coins in open circuit.(Note: this does not
jive at all with the test made at 14 volt variac, and
a seemingly very non linear loss may be involved with
the diode system, rated at 600 volts max) Immersing
the coins into fresh distilled water changes the
conditions from 80 VAC appearing on the outside to 78
volts dc appearing across the coins 40% immersed into
the water. Thus for the open load connections:  the
diode system itself by the theorized ratio of
impedance of the voltage rise system in comparison to
the resistance of the non conducting direction for two
diodes in parallel causes the voltage to drop to 15.5%
of the initial starting voltage.(From data obtained in
the second higher voltage test)

   In contrast the alternator 480 hz resonance system,
having only the impedance of .15 henry at 480 hz on
each branch, compared to the impedance of a 60 henry
coil at 60 hz, means that the comparisons of
resistance losses between the diode system and its
source of voltage rise by resonance are much higher.

    In that testing a 2.4 volt stator phase   480 hz
enables 114 volts to develope between two inversely
phased series resonances, using .15 henry and .75 uf
in series for each branch. The voltage is measured
between the midpoints of each inversely phased series
resonance.  Attaching a full wave 4 diode
rectification system to that resonant potential, using
a very low .005 uf as the capacitive DC ripple filter
shows that the voltage then drops to 100 volts on the
outside of the diode system, becoming some 141.8 volts
DC on the inside of the circuit.  Thus the hypothesis
seems valid, resonant voltage rise would have losses
in comparison to the ratios of internal impedance, and
non conducting resistances of a diode system.

  Even a further test can be made when the high
induction coils themselves are used in conjuction with
the 480 hz alternator frequency. It will be
interesting to see if similar drops in rectified
voltage will occur in that scenario.

Sincerely HDN

=====
Tesla Research Group; Pioneering the Applications of Interphasal Resonances http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/

__________________________________________________
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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Apr  6 20:56:05 2003
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Hi All.

An update on my attempt to replicate.

I returned home to discover an email from Dr. Wistrom, who
kindly furnished me with a set of papers related to the
effect. It's fair to say that the link below,

http://homepage.mac.com/awaspaas/rotation.pdf

provides you with most of the relevant information
if you're attempting to replicate. If people really
want the extra files, contact me directly.

I took down the old setup, which was testing
the Foster electrostatic motor, quite a different
beast from the Wistrom device. As you know, I
was not able to replicate the effect. I'm waiting
for more info from Mike Foster, we'll see what
he suggests.

I restrung two of the cans ( short style beer cans ) with
thin dry thread, and suspended them at the same
height from a lab type tripod with a wooden beam.
The third can was fitted into a plexiglass cylinder
such that the height of all three cans was the
same. Threads and cylinder were about 1' in length.
Inside the cylinder I strung the HV positive electrode,
ground was left lying at the base of the experiment
with no ground plane beneath. The cans were arranged
as shown in the diagram, the space between cans
2 and 3 about .25".

I fired up the glassman HV supply, to about 5KV,
the limit of testing as noted in the paper. No
preferred rotation was noted. Increasing the voltage
tended to cause the #3 can to approach the #2 can,
and start bobbing. I reduced the voltage, steadied
things, and let the apparatus sit for a while. Again,
nothing other than a very slow rotation of perhaps
30 degrees settling to zero. Bear in mind, this
setup is EXTREMELY sensitive to rotation, the
slightest breeze or movement can set the cans
to a slow oscillation of rotation. 

The differences between my experiment and Dr. Wistroms
are as follows.

1) Cans, rather than spheres.
2) Bodies MUCH lighter, his spheres were almost a Kg each.
3) Thread support, rather than wire.

I will keep an eye peeled for spheres to use, it
seems pointless to go back to the foil coated styrofoam
units as his spheres were so heavy. I shall
leave things arranged for a few days if anyone
has good suggestions, and ask Dr. Wistrom for
advice.

K.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Apr  6 22:58:54 2003
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Hi All.

I'm a little tired of playing with my balls (chuckle),
and have a question for you all for my next experiment.

I need a dielectric, with as high a permittivity as
possible, and one which I can either cut or ideally
form into a shape. Electrodes will be stuck into it,
so a plastic or wax or something of that nature would
be great. I could do a ceramic as well, I have a nice
muffle furnace to fire it with. But I need some
advice about the right material to choose. There
must be some commercial material out there that
fits the bill.

Anyone?

K.

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On Mon, 7 Apr 2003, Keith Nagel wrote:

> I need a dielectric, with as high a permittivity as possible, and one
> which I can either cut or ideally form into a shape. Electrodes will be
> stuck into it, so a plastic or wax or something of that nature would be
> great. I could do a ceramic as well, I have a nice muffle furnace to
> fire it with. But I need some advice about the right material to choose.
> There must be some commercial material out there that fits the bill.

Here's an online list:

  http://www.asiinstr.com/dc1.html

I've used polyester casting resin (fiberglass resin, or the stuff used for
clear paperweights.)

That list shows epoxy as being pretty close to polyester, but urethane
casting resin is much higher.  (I've seen 2-component liquid urethane used
for making flexible molds... maybe it makes good capacitors?)  Titanium
oxide or magnesium oxide lists as a large value, so maybe white paint
pigment powder mixed with liquid plastic would give high capacitance (and
try applying the high voltage while the plastic is still wet, since that
would force particles into contact and might greatly increase the
capacitance.)

The list shows that Trinitrotoluene (TNT) is great, if it doesn't explode
when high voltage is applied!  :)


(((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                            SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                            http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair
Seattle, WA  206-789-0775    unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci

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Excellent web detective work, Keith.  And yes, it's completely different from what I did, which I suspect is much more closely related to Naudin's motor.  More about that later.

When I read Wistrom and Kachatourian's paper, I was reminded why I didn't become a scientist.  It spares me from having to read papers like this one from other scientists.  This is pure academic obfuscatory gobbledygook.  Maybe puerile circumlocutory palaver would be closer to the proper description.

This thing is a classic on how to dress up a rudimentary experiment in terms that will pass the referees of a scientific publication such as Applied Physics Letters.  Where the hell did these guys dig up a version of Gauss' law with that many terms in it?

The paper starts off with a sentence that is confusing at best and self-contradictory at worst.  To wit: "In a series of experiments, each comprising three supported metal spheres held at constant potential, we observed a rotation for two spheres with application of voltage to the third sphere, which was held stationary."  Well guys, if they were held at constant potential what happened when you applied voltage to one of them?  Were they still at constant potential?  Or maybe you were talking about mechanical or gravitational potential instead of electrical potential but forgot to tell us.

>From both the description and the illustration it is not entirely clear that two or more of the spheres are not connected electrically, although you can easily guess that they are not.

The most important facts in this experiment are left out.  We are told that these are stainless steel spheres, but we are not told if they are magnetic or non-magnetic stainless steel.  We are told that some of the spheres were coated with graphite or nickel (why?), but we are not told what the substrate was.

We are told that this could be a Coulomb motor but we are never told whether the observed rotation was more than 360 degrees.  In other words could this gadget just be a galvanometer or maybe a torsional electroscope?

They tell us that current flow is "negligible" but don't give us a number.  It also appears from the paper that they are trying to tell us that the reason current flow is negligible is because the apparatus is in a Faraday box, as if one thing causes the other.  If I put my flashlight in a Faraday cage will the current cease to flow and the light go out?  And speaking of current flow, even though at these voltages the metal spheres are unlikely to exhibit corona wind effects given their relatively large diameter, the induced voltage on the two spheres suspended by steel wires is in effect grounded by corona leakage through those wires.  Or is this intentional?  In other words, why weren't the spheres suspended by insulators instead of conductors?

I find it particularly fitting that they invoke the name of Coulomb and "action at a distance" in describing their effect, which they claim has no magnetic effects and no current flow.  Ampère, you may recall, did not discover electromagnetic induction, even though he had actual wire coils sitting on his work bench, because Coulomb had proven mathematically that electricity and magnetism can have no relationship.  There was a brief period in France when you could actually be arrested for suggesting the reality of Faraday's electromagnetic induction, implying that Coulomb was wrong.  This was not too long after the time when you could be arrested for agreeing with Davy's assertion that chlorine is an element, implying that Lavoisier was wrong.

The French, then as now, have a rather inflated opinion of their importance.

Wistrom and Kachatourian are serious scientists, colloid chemists, who may have wandered a bit from their field of study with this little endeavor.  Perhaps they explain themselves more clearly and convincingly in other papers, but I find myself utterly unconvinced of their assertions in this one.  I would certainly feel that they had made their case if they had done some magnetic field measurements with a Hall effect transducer, for example.

M.


P.S.

You can tell the world is upside down when the top rapper is white, the top golfer is black, the French are calling the Americans arrogant, and the Germans won't go to war.


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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr  7 06:13:22 2003
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Two words Keith, barium titanate.  Has a dielectric constant in the thousands.  If you have a muffle furnace, you can either just buy the barium titanate as a powder and fuse it onto a surface, or if this is unavailable you can just make a stoichoimetric mix of barium oxide and titanium dioxide and fuse those together, giving a barium titanate layer from chemical reaction.

If you don't want to mess with high temperatures, you can mix litharge and epoxy.  This is what T.T. Brown used.

M.



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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr  7 07:43:06 2003
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From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: "Vortex" <vortex-l eskimo.com>, <michael.foster@excite.com>
Subject: RE: Question about dielectrics
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Hi Mike,

Yes, I thought about Barium Titanate as well. But I have no
experience working with the material. The end
result will be something like a square plate about
1" per side and perhaps 1/4" thick. Electrodes
will be embedded in the block ( I'm getting sick
of hearing that term embedded... ) hence the
need for something I can mold or form.

I've tried making composite dielectrics using
oxides in wax, this work was done years back
and I remember it being very unsatisfying, in
large part due to the need to load the wax with dielectric
to the degree that binder would be a better
term. In fact, were I to return to this method,
I would consider a powdered plastic that
I could mix with the dielectric, in very
small quantity, and heat to set. Or use a
very thin solution of epoxy, with acetone.
Hmmm, that might work, actually.

I fear spending a lot of time reinventing
the wheel, I'd much rather spend some money
and buy a commercial compound with known
characteristics.

Thanks for the advice.

K.

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Foster [mailto:michael.foster excite.com]
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 9:09 AM
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: RE: Question about dielectrics



Two words Keith, barium titanate.  Has a dielectric constant in the
thousands.  If you have a muffle furnace, you can either just buy the barium
titanate as a powder and fuse it onto a surface, or if this is unavailable
you can just make a stoichoimetric mix of barium oxide and titanium dioxide
and fuse those together, giving a barium titanate layer from chemical
reaction.

If you don't want to mess with high temperatures, you can mix litharge and
epoxy.  This is what T.T. Brown used.

M.



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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr  7 08:02:46 2003
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        "Vortex" <vortex-l eskimo.com>, "William Beaty" <billb@eskimo.com>
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Hi Bill.

Oddly enough, as I mentioned to Mike, I have
experimented with magnesium oxide in wax.
The oxide is a remarkable fine powder, think
baby powder, and packed with air. Vacuum
equipment would have been needed to make
a good solid dielectric from it.

Still, I might try again with acetone/epoxy
solution as a binder. But with a peak
value of 10 it hardly seems worth the
trouble. Rather I would work with one of the
titanates. 

K.


-----Original Message-----
From: William Beaty [mailto:billb eskimo.com]
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 8:13 AM
To: Keith Nagel
Cc: ou-Builders; Vortex
Subject: Re: Question about dielectrics


On Mon, 7 Apr 2003, Keith Nagel wrote:

> I need a dielectric, with as high a permittivity as possible, and one
> which I can either cut or ideally form into a shape. Electrodes will be
> stuck into it, so a plastic or wax or something of that nature would be
> great. I could do a ceramic as well, I have a nice muffle furnace to
> fire it with. But I need some advice about the right material to choose.
> There must be some commercial material out there that fits the bill.

Here's an online list:

  http://www.asiinstr.com/dc1.html

I've used polyester casting resin (fiberglass resin, or the stuff used for
clear paperweights.)

That list shows epoxy as being pretty close to polyester, but urethane
casting resin is much higher.  (I've seen 2-component liquid urethane used
for making flexible molds... maybe it makes good capacitors?)  Titanium
oxide or magnesium oxide lists as a large value, so maybe white paint
pigment powder mixed with liquid plastic would give high capacitance (and
try applying the high voltage while the plastic is still wet, since that
would force particles into contact and might greatly increase the
capacitance.)

The list shows that Trinitrotoluene (TNT) is great, if it doesn't explode
when high voltage is applied!  :)


(((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                            SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                            http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair
Seattle, WA  206-789-0775    unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci


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Reply-To: <bernert erols.com>
From: "Reflection" <bernert erols.com>
To: <bernert erols.com>
Subject: RE: Very interesting!
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 22:48:23 -0400
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Since the invention of liquid fuel injection and the elimination of
carburetors. An easy way to get fast acceleration and extremely high fuel
efficiency would be the use of two sets of injectors. One for liquid (as now
used) and another for injecting fuel vapor. This does away with the little
explosion problem they had with feeding a highly explosive air - fuel vapor
mixture into the cylinders via an intake manifold. Damn, this doesn't
require a lot of "inventing" it should be in use VERY SOON. But I won't hold
my breath waiting for Geo. W. Bush, and his oily friends to get behind this
ecologically and economically attractive initiative and push it! One hope
might be that the Isra-Helli's should love this sort of thing since it would
make the world much less dependent upon Mid-Eastern Oil, and diminish the
influence of the local oil producing nations... almost all of which hate
their Indo-European Khazar Jewish (wanabee Hebrew) Palestinian murdering
asses!
Everyone knows they are the puppeteers pulling the strings of that brain
damaged alcoholic fool in the Whitehouse.
Fred...


  -----Original Message-----
  From: owner-roundtable flinet.com [mailto:owner-roundtable@flinet.com]On
Behalf Of Henry Ayre
  Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 1:18 AM
  To: Roundtable flinet.com
  Subject: Very interesting!





        Now need may overpower greed...

                    March 31, 2003

                    Oil industry suppressed plans for 200-mpg car
                    By Simon de Bruxelles


                    THE original blueprints for a device that could have
revolutionised the motor car have been discovered in the secret compartment
of a tool box.
                    A carburettor that would allow a car to travel 200 miles
on a gallon of fuel caused oil stocks to crash when it was announced by its
Canadian inventor Charles Nelson Pogue in the 1930s.

                    But the carburettor was never produced and,
mysteriously, Pogue went overnight from impoverished inventor to the manager
of a successful factory making oil filters for the motor industry. Ever
since, suspicion has lingered that oil companies and car manufacturers
colluded to bury Pogue’s invention.

                    Now a retired Cornish mechanic has enlisted the help of
the University of Plymouth to rebuild Pogue’s revolutionary carburettor,
known as the Winnipeg, from blueprints he found hidden beneath a sheet of
plywood in the box.

                    The controversial plans once caused panic among oil
companies and rocked the Toronto Stock Exchange when tests carried out on
the carburettor in the 1930s proved that it worked.

                    Patrick Davies, 72, from St Austell, had owned the tool
box for 40 years but only recently decided to clean it out. As well as
drawings of the carburettor, the envelope contained two pages of plans,
three test reports and six pages of notes written by Pogue.

                    They included a report of a test that Pogue had done on
his lawnmower, which showed that he had managed to make the engine run for
seven days on a quart (just under a litre) of petrol.

                    The documents also described how the machine worked by
turning petrol into a vapour before it entered the cylinder chamber,
reducing the amount of fuel needed for combustion.

                    Mr Davies has had the patent number on the plans
authenticated, proving that they are genuine documents.

                    He said: “I couldn’t believe what I saw. I used to be a
motor mechanic and I knew this was something else altogether. I was given
the tool box by a friend after I helped to paint her house in 1964. Her
husband had spent a lot of time in Canada.”

                    The announcement of Pogue’s invention caused enormous
excitement in the American motor industry in 1933, when he drove 200 miles
on one gallon of fuel in a Ford V8. However, the Winnipeg was never
manufactured commercially and after 1936 it disappeared altogether amid
allegations of a political cover-up.

                    Dr Murray Bell, of the University of Plymouth’s
department of mechanical and marine engineering, said he would consider
trying to build a model of the Pogue carburettor.

                    Engineers who have tried in the past to build a
carburettor using Pogue’s theories have found the results less than
satisfactory. Charles Friend, of Canada’s National Research Council, told
Marketplace, a consumer affairs programme: “You can get fantastic mileage if
you’re prepared to de-rate the vehicle to a point where, for example, it
might take you ten minutes to accelerate from 0 to 30 miles an hour.”



         ----




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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4><FONT color=3D#c0c0c0><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN   class=3D=
250542002-07042003>Since the invention of liquid fuel injection and the=20
elimination of&nbsp;carburetors.&nbsp;An easy way to </SPAN></FONT><FONT   f=
ace=3DArial><SPAN class=3D250542002-07042003>get&nbsp;fast acceleration and=20
extremely high fuel efficiency would be the use of two sets of injectors. On=
e=20
for liquid (as now used) and another for injecting fuel vapor. This does awa=
y=20
with the little explosion&nbsp;problem they had with feeding a highly explos=
ive=20
air - fuel vapor mixture into the cylinders via an intake manifold. Damn, th=
is=20
doesn't require a lot of "inventing" it should be in use VERY SOON. But I wo=
n't=20
hold my breath waiting for Geo. W. Bush,&nbsp;and his oily friends to get be=
hind=20
this ecologically&nbsp;and economically attractive initiative&nbsp;and push=20=
it!=20
One hope might be that the Isra-Helli's should love this sort of thing since=
 it=20
would make the world much less dependent upon Mid-Eastern Oil, and diminish=20
the&nbsp;influence of the local&nbsp;oil producing nations... almost all of=20
which hate&nbsp;their Indo-European&nbsp;Khazar Jewish (wanabee Hebrew)=20
Palestinian murdering&nbsp;asses!</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4><FONT color=3D#c0c0c0><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN   class=3D=
250542002-07042003>Everyone knows they are the puppeteers pulling the=20
strings of that&nbsp;brain damaged alcoholic&nbsp;fool in the=20
Whitehouse.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#c0c0c0 size=3D4><SPAN   class=3D250542002-0=
7042003>Fred...</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DTaho=
ma     size=3D2><FONT color=3D#c0c0c0>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:=
</B>=20
  owner-roundtable flinet.com [mailto:owner-roundtable@flinet.com]<B>On Beha=
lf=20
  Of </B>Henry Ayre<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, April 05, 2003 1:18=20
  AM<BR><B>To:</B> Roundtable flinet.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Very=20
  interesting!</FONT><BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
  <DIV>
  <TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 width=3D586 border=3D0>
    <TBODY>
    <TR>
      <TD align=3Dmiddle colSpan=3D3><!-- DART AD 'Top' begin -->
       =20

        <SCRIPT language=3DJavaScript           src=3D"http://ad.uk.doublecl=
ick.net/adj/www.thetimes2.co.uk/britain;pos=3Dtop;sz=3D468x60;ptile=3D1;ord=3D=
1049522924750?">document.write('<A HREF=3D"http://ad.uk.doubleclick.net/jump=
/www.thetimes2.co.uk/britain;abr=3D!ie4;abr=3D!ie5;abr=3D!nn2;abr=3D!nn3;abr=3D=
!nn4;pos=3Dtop;sz=3D468x60;ptile=3D1;ord=3D1049522924750?" target=3D"_blank"=
>');document.write('<IMG SRC=3D"http://ad.uk.doubleclick.net/ad/www.thetimes=
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ght=3D"60"></A>
        <FONT size=3D2></FONT><A           href=3D"http://ad.uk.doubleclick.=
net/click;h=3Dv2|2f76|0|0|%2a|p;5425100;0-0;1;6917814;1-468|60;2601080|25992=
57|1;;%3fhttp://www.timesonline.co.uk/section/0,,1023,00.html"           tar=
get=3D_blank></A><!-- DART AD 'Top' end --></TD></TR>
    <TR>
      <TD colSpan=3D3><IMG alt=3D""           src=3D"http://images.thetimes.=
co.uk/images/TIMESPrintArticleHead.gif"           border=3D0></TD></TR>
    <TR>
      <TD align=3Dmiddle width=3D36><FONT size=3D2></FONT></TD>
      <TD width=3D430><FONT size=3D2></FONT></TD>
      <TD vAlign=3Dtop align=3Dright width=3D120><FONT size=3D2></FONT></TD>=
</TR>
    <TR>
      <TD colSpan=3D3 height=3D25><IMG height=3D25 alt=3D""           src=3D=
"http://images.thetimes.co.uk/images/trans.gif" width=3D1           border=3D=
0><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#ff0000 size=3D6><STRONG>Now=20
        need may overpower greed...</STRONG></FONT></TD></TR>
    <TR>
      <TD width=3D36><IMG height=3D1 alt=3D""           src=3D"http://images=
.thetimes.co.uk/images/trans.gif" width=3D36   border=3D0></TD>
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        <TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 width=3D400 border=3D0 valign=3D=
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                <TR>
                  <TD vAlign=3Dtop><IMG height=3D10 alt=3D""               =20=
       src=3D"http://images.thetimes.co.uk/images/trans.gif" width=3D1     =20=
                 border=3D0> <BR><FONT color=3D#ff0000><SPAN class=3Ddate>Ma=
rch 31,=20
                    2003</SPAN> <BR></FONT><BR><FONT face=3DImpact><FONT   =20=
                   size=3D7><FONT color=3D#00ffff><SPAN class=3Dheadline>Oil=
 industry=20
                    suppressed plans for 200-mpg=20
                    car</SPAN><BR></FONT></FONT></FONT><SPAN class=3Dbyline>=
<FONT                       color=3D#ff0000>By Simon de=20
                Bruxelles</FONT></SPAN></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR>
          <TR>
            <TD height=3D5><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#808000><STRONG><IMG=
                 src=3D"http://127.0.0.1:1025/bug.cgi"> </STRONG></FONT></TD=
></TR>
          <TR>
            <TD>
              <TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 width=3D400 border=3D0>
                <TBODY>
                <TR>
                  <TD vAlign=3Dtop><SPAN class=3Dtextcopy><FONT face=3DVerda=
na                       color=3D#808000><STRONG>THE original blueprints for=
 a device=20
                    that could have revolutionised the motor car have been=20
                    discovered in the secret compartment of a tool box.=20
                    </STRONG></FONT>
                    <P><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#808000><STRONG>A carbur=
ettor=20
                    that would allow a car to travel 200 miles on a gallon o=
f=20
                    fuel caused oil stocks to crash when it was announced by=
 its=20
                    Canadian inventor Charles Nelson Pogue in the 1930s.=20
                    </STRONG></FONT>
                    <P><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#808000><STRONG>But the=20
                    carburettor was never produced and, mysteriously, Pogue=20=
went=20
                    overnight from impoverished inventor to the manager of a=
=20
                    successful factory making oil filters for the motor=20
                    industry. Ever since, suspicion has lingered that oil=20
                    companies and car manufacturers colluded to bury Pogue=92=
s=20
                    invention. </STRONG></FONT>
                    <P><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#808000><STRONG>Now a re=
tired=20
                    Cornish mechanic has enlisted the help of the University=
 of=20
                    Plymouth to rebuild Pogue=92s revolutionary carburettor,=
 known=20
                    as the Winnipeg, from blueprints he found hidden beneath=
 a=20
                    sheet of plywood in the box. </STRONG></FONT>
                    <P><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#808000><STRONG>The=20
                    controversial plans once caused panic among oil companie=
s=20
                    and rocked the Toronto Stock Exchange when tests carried=
 out=20
                    on the carburettor in the 1930s proved that it worked.=20
                    </STRONG></FONT>
                    <P><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#808000><STRONG>Patrick=20=
Davies,=20
                    72, from St Austell, had owned the tool box for 40 years=
 but=20
                    only recently decided to clean it out. As well as drawin=
gs=20
                    of the carburettor, the envelope contained two pages of=20
                    plans, three test reports and six pages of notes written=
 by=20
                    Pogue. </STRONG></FONT>
                    <P><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#808000><STRONG>They inc=
luded a=20
                    report of a test that Pogue had done on his lawnmower, w=
hich=20
                    showed that he had managed to make the engine run for se=
ven=20
                    days on a quart (just under a litre) of petrol.=20
                    </STRONG></FONT>
                    <P><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#808000><STRONG>The docu=
ments=20
                    also described how the machine worked by turning petrol=20=
into=20
                    a vapour before it entered the cylinder chamber, reducin=
g=20
                    the amount of fuel needed for combustion. </STRONG></FON=
T>
                    <P><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#808000><STRONG>Mr Davie=
s has=20
                    had the patent number on the plans authenticated, provin=
g=20
                    that they are genuine documents. </STRONG></FONT>
                    <P><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#808000><STRONG>He said:=
 =93I=20
                    couldn=92t believe what I saw. I used to be a motor mech=
anic=20
                    and I knew this was something else altogether. I was giv=
en=20
                    the tool box by a friend after I helped to paint her hou=
se=20
                    in 1964. Her husband had spent a lot of time in Canada.=94=
=20
                    </STRONG></FONT>
                    <P><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#808000><STRONG>The anno=
uncement=20
                    of Pogue=92s invention caused enormous excitement in the=
=20
                    American motor industry in 1933, when he drove 200 miles=
 on=20
                    one gallon of fuel in a Ford V8. However, the Winnipeg w=
as=20
                    never manufactured commercially and after 1936 it=20
                    disappeared altogether amid allegations of a political=20
                    cover-up. </STRONG></FONT>
                    <P><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#808000><STRONG>Dr Murra=
y Bell,=20
                    of the University of Plymouth=92s department of mechanic=
al and=20
                    marine engineering, said he would consider trying to bui=
ld a=20
                    model of the Pogue carburettor. </STRONG></FONT>
                    <P><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#808000><STRONG>Engineer=
s who=20
                    have tried in the past to build a carburettor using Pogu=
e=92s=20
                    theories have found the results less than satisfactory.=20
                    Charles Friend, of Canada=92s National Research Council,=
 told=20
                    <I>Marketplace</I>, a consumer affairs programme: =93You=
 can=20
                    get fantastic mileage if you=92re prepared to de-rate th=
e=20
                    vehicle to a point where, for example, it might take you=
 ten=20
                    minutes to accelerate from 0 to 30 miles an=20
                    hour.=94</STRONG></FONT>=20
          </P></SPAN></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
        <DIV><SPAN class=3D250542002-07042003><FONT color=3D#0000ff        =20=
  size=3D2>&nbsp;----</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
        <DIV><SPAN     class=3D250542002-07042003>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></TD></=
TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV></FONT>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#ff0000     size=3D4><STRONG></STRONG></=
FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></=
HTML>

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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr  7 10:52:39 2003
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From: "jonesb9" <jonesb9 pacbell.net>
To: "vortex" <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Synergy, beta aether and the wassercar
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 10:47:22 -0700
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Most of us are aware that a typical gasoline IC engine is said by the =
experts to be not very efficient, but "uncommon sense" has told some =
"under-educated" inventors otherwise, that the problem is in the =
antiquated design, which hasn't really changed all that much in the last =
seventy-five years.=20

I suppose the vortex posting just now about the Pogue carburetor is just =
such a case in point. There are literally dozens of these so-called =
suppressed inventions, and curiously many involve the fuel-to-air =
interface.

Thermodynamics is a complicated subject, and like philosophy, most of =
its basic laws are phenomenological, in the sense that they represent =
empirical relations between various observed quantities - where all of =
the variables can seldom be known in advance in new situations. These =
variable include pressure, temperature, density, compressibility, =
solubility, latency and most importantly thermochemical interaction.  =
Consequently, few specialists really understand all of the nuances of =
Carnot efficiency when it comes to applying old results to new concepts. =
Passing an electrical arc through intake air, for instance, can create =
dozens of varieties of short-lived chemical reactions and =
*intermediates* (quasi-stable combinations) that would require a =
supercomputer to quantify.

Thermodynamically, the average new car is less than 18% efficient at =
converting thermal energy from gasoline into mechanical energy. The =
highest claim I have seen for a production engine is 25%. The new Ford =
hydrogen burning engine (Model U)  has a claimed thermal to mechanical =
efficiency of 38 percent at constant RPM. So it is possible that just =
changing fuel can give one a 50% boost. A valid question then becomes, =
"How many other large efficiency boosts are out there, waiting to be =
found?" If there are any at all, what does that tell us about our =
educational system and the hundreds of thousands of engineers who have =
been compelled to go "by the book" for the last hundred years?

How valuable would a technique be that boosted the thermodynamic =
efficiency of a gasoline IC engine from 25% to 60%? Don't chuckle just =
yet...it may not be as impossible as you have been led to believe.=20

If one converts mechanical energy to electrical energy (at 95%) and then =
uses some of that electricity to split hydrogen from water in the normal =
way, then one would still be way, way off from being able to generate =
enough hydrogen to self-sustain the operation of the engine. At the very =
best one would expect that such a setup would require 3-4 times more =
hydrogen then it could produce on its own.

Yet there are claims out there right now of self-powering water engines =
that do just that. And even more claims of being able to boost the =
mileage (i.e. efficiency) of gasoline combustion by hundreds of percent =
using on-site H2 generation.=20

Sure, lets make it abundantly clear that most of these claims are bogus. =
Some are naive. Many are even fraudulently criminal. But, are ALL of the =
claims wrong? Do any of them portend a breakthrough in an efficiency =
enhancing technique?

The following are recent claims, and still none seem credible to me on =
the surface, especially since many of them hint at some kind of =
institutionalized effort at suppressing the technology - OTOH, eye =
witnesses with whom I have communicated, have vouched for the accuracy =
of at least one "wassercar" i.e. water powered engine, so there is both =
lingering doubt and wishful thinking:
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/other_hfsystems.html
http://home.pacific.net.au/~apophis/howitsdone.html
http://www.keelynet.com/energy/waterfuel.htm
an older claim
http://www.hasslberger.com/tecno/hydrogen.html

I would not have even brought this subject up had not a new forum for =
wassercar inventors sprung up - most claims are in increasing mileage of =
IC engines (a V-8 that gets over 100 mpg) using gasoline plus on-board =
self-generated hydrogen.
http://oupower.com/forum/=20

For decades, unproven claims of anomalies in hydrogen production (Like =
Brown's gas or the Meyer cell, Keely, Puharich, etc ) and OU from =
electrolysis, have come and lingered, despite the scoffing of experts - =
only this newer technique (the wassercar) is slightly different in an =
important way - it draws the intake air through the electrolysis cell =
itself...and that might be the one factor that makes all the difference =
from a theoretical POV.=20

Again, none of this is proven, and the recent blip in interest would all =
sound very much like more of the same old nonsense we have been hearing =
for years except the newer inventors above are not seeking funding, =
investment, nor even selling overpriced books, nor anything else except =
shared expertise, and moreover there is, ta da... presented below, the =
beginnings of a theoretical way to explain in principle how this could =
be pulled off (i.e. the water powered engine). But it is not simple.

REACTION 1. If you use enough electrical energy to split off the protons =
from two moles of water, you would expect to get 2 moles of hydrogen and =
one of oxygen, 3 moles in total of reactive gas plus some wasted heat. =
When those two gases later burn, the H2 and O2 molecular bonds subtract =
from the final heat output so there is a double built-in inefficiency =
that gives you just two moles of extremely hot gas to drive a piston.

REACTION 2. If instead you are somehow able to use the same amount of =
electrical energy (plus a little ingenuity) to split off and immediately =
capture single protons from 4 moles of water, leaving all hydroxyl =
radicals intact, then you could get 8 moles of reactive gas from the =
same amount of input energy (it will be explained more fully below). The =
8 moles will have only slightly more real energy content then the 3 =
moles of Reaction1, but in Reaction 2, it might possibly to convert the =
heat energy into gas pressure far more efficiently, with a very tiny =
amount of added hydrocarbon fuel, since the unstable bonding leaves =
little to subtract from, and there are 2.67 more moles present and you =
don't need all that extremely high heat in order to get high enough gas =
pressure to efficiently push a piston. Bottom line, if done correctly, =
about three times the gas pressure per unit of input energy is possible =
when the design is optimized for "gas pressure" rather than heat.

It is gas pressure, not heat energy, that drives a piston in an =
automobile.=20

There is some direct connection between the two, but it is not =
necessarily a linear connection, and varies greatly with thermochemical =
dynamics of each situation. Therefore, this fact bears repeating: It is =
gas pressure, not heat energy, that drives a piston in an automobile. =
You can even do it efficiently with liquid air as a fuel at minus 175 =
degrees f.

All this talk about "moles" can be a little confusing, so consider this =
real world example. At room temperature, nitrous oxide, N2O, is quite =
unreactive. It is therefore widely used as a propellant in aerosol cans =
in place of the CFCs which can damage the ozone layer. When heated =
sufficiently, however, N2O will decompose exothermically to N2 and O2. =
Even so, one would not expect the resulting gas pressure to exceed that =
of equal amount of O2 alone, but it does. Why?

When this reaction occurs in the combustion chamber of an automobile, as =
it does thousands of times every weekend in various car races, 3 moles =
of propellant gas are produced from 2 moles of input gas, providing an =
approximate 50% extra volume gas pressure boost to the piston, even =
before the chemical reaction sets in. It also has another benefit as the =
latent heat of vaporization of the N2O reduces the intake temperature =
allowing more efficient compression. For these reasons, N2O is injected =
into the fuel lines of racing cars to achieve huge boosts of power and =
exceptional acceleration.

Next, consider the uniqueness of hydrogen bonds - which constitute an =
unusual type of interatomic interaction, with energies typically in the =
range of 2=9610 kcal mol=961. These values are intermediate between =
covalent bonds and "weak" interactions, such as Van der Waals forces. =
Van der Waals forces are caused by "beta aether" pressures (aka ZPE) at =
subnanometer scale geometries and can be the equivalent of many =
thousands of atms, and are especially evident in water, giving it an =
extremely high phase-change obstacle to be overcome if using only heat =
to vaporize H2O. These very forces, the beta aether, might possibly be =
harnessed, however, when "refocused" slightly to push free electrons =
around in order to form dozens of *intermediate* reactions between water =
and air (short lived quasi-stable combinations) that are stable just =
long enough to catalyze efficient high gas pressure production in an =
automobile engine.

The small, but significant energy of the hydrogen bond allows its =
formation and disruption under a wide range of temperatures and =
catalytic conditions. For hydrogen bonds in water: H-O-H, the two =
molecular bonds act like little "slinky" springs both attached to one =
hemisphere of the O atom, leaving the other end charged and essentially =
bare. When this elastic polar molecule is placed in an electric field, =
it constantly tries to rotate to align with field lines which are always =
straight, but.... given that one or the other of the two protons will =
always be periodically more tightly bound with the O, then the resultant =
OH will be slightly more rigid, leaving the first H atom freer to =
disattach.=20

There may well be techniques to maximize the production of protons from =
water, while leaving the hydroxyl intact, and those ways would involve =
the concurrent vaporization of a greater quantity of supersaturated =
water vapor than the quantity of protons to be split-off, so that before =
the protons can react to form an H2 molecule, each is able to attach to =
a water molecule to give H3O+, the all-important *hydronium ion* which =
has a short lifetime, along with a *hydrated electron* which has an even =
shorter lifetime, but just long enough perhaps to stay intact until they =
can interact in the engine's combustion chamber. Timing is critical.

Concurrently in this kind of electrolysis cell, the hydroxyl radicals =
which remain are forming short-lived quasi-stable compound ions of their =
own by attachment to N2 or O2 from air being sucked through the cell =
giving unstable ions like N2OH- or HO3- and other oxides of nitrogen =
that provide extremely high oxidation potential, in order to thoroughly =
burn a small amount of added hydrocarbons. In short, the beta aether =
itself, which has been holding the water together in liquid form, =
suddenly shifts its force due to the appearance if entrained air, in =
order to provide a temporary plethora of unstable chemicals. Any "extra =
energy" that is involved may look like it is increased thermodynamic =
efficiency, but in reality it is ZPE utilization.

The above ramblings are a first step in trying to find a hypothetical =
basis for a phenomenon that, admittedly, might not even exist. It may be =
a rationalization and it may even be counter-productive.

Time will tell, but I wouldn't have wasted the time with this posting if =
I thought the prospect for the wassercar was utterly hopeless. But then =
again, If I had read these very words a month ago, my initial reaction =
would have been that its all just more of the same bunko free-energy =
scam of Meyer et al. Maybe it is.

At the very least, I'm keeping an eye on this new wassercar forum, crude =
as it is, and also will be looking to find a cheapo auto engine to play =
around with...

Jones





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<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Most of us&nbsp;are aware that a typical gasoline IC engine is said =
by the=20
experts to be not very efficient, but "uncommon sense" has told some=20
"under-educated" inventors otherwise, that the problem is in the =
antiquated=20
design, which hasn't really changed all&nbsp;that much in the last =
seventy-five=20
years. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I suppose the vortex posting just now about the Pogue carburetor is =
just=20
such a case in point. There are literally dozens of these so-called =
suppressed=20
inventions, and curiously many involve the fuel-to-air interface.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Thermodynamics is a complicated subject, and like philosophy, =
most&nbsp;of=20
its basic laws <FONT face=3DArial>are </FONT><I><FONT=20
size=3D3>phenomenological</I></FONT><FONT size=3D3>, in the sense that =
they=20
represent empirical relations between various observed quantities - =
where all of=20
the variables can seldom be known in advance in new situations. These =
variable=20
include pressure, temperature, density, compressibility, solubility,=20
latency&nbsp;and most importantly thermochemical =
interaction.</FONT>&nbsp;=20
Consequently, few specialists really understand all of the nuances of =
Carnot=20
efficiency when it comes to applying old results to new concepts. =
Passing an=20
electrical arc through intake air, for instance, can create dozens of =
varieties=20
of short-lived chemical reactions and *intermediates* (quasi-stable=20
combinations) that would require a supercomputer to quantify.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Thermodynamically, the&nbsp;average new car is less than 18% =
efficient at=20
converting thermal energy from gasoline into mechanical energy. The =
highest=20
claim I have seen for a production engine is 25%. The new Ford=20
hydrogen&nbsp;burning engine (Model U) &nbsp;has a claimed thermal to =
mechanical=20
efficiency of 38 percent at&nbsp;constant RPM. So it is possible that =
just=20
changing fuel can give one a 50% boost. A valid question then becomes, =
"How many=20
other large efficiency boosts are out there, waiting to be found?" If =
there are=20
any at all, what does that tell us about our educational system and the =
hundreds=20
of thousands of engineers who have been compelled to go "by the book" =
for the=20
last hundred years?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>How valuable would a technique be that boosted =
the&nbsp;thermodynamic=20
efficiency of a gasoline IC engine from 25% to 60%? Don't chuckle just =
yet...it=20
may not be as impossible as you have been led to believe.&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>If one converts mechanical energy to electrical energy (at 95%) and =
then=20
uses&nbsp;some of that electricity to split hydrogen from water in the =
normal=20
way, then&nbsp;one would still be way, way off from being able to =
generate=20
enough hydrogen to self-sustain the operation of the engine. At the very =
best=20
one would expect that such a setup would require 3-4 times more hydrogen =
then it=20
could produce on its own.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Yet there are claims out there right now of self-powering water =
engines=20
that do just that. And even more claims of being able to boost the =
mileage (i.e.=20
efficiency) of gasoline combustion by hundreds of percent using on-site =
H2=20
generation. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Sure, lets make it abundantly clear that&nbsp;most of these claims =
are=20
bogus. Some are naive. Many are even fraudulently criminal. But, =
are&nbsp;ALL of=20
the claims wrong? Do any of them portend a breakthrough in an efficiency =

enhancing technique?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The following are recent claims, and still&nbsp;none seem credible =
to me on=20
the surface, especially since many of them hint at some kind of=20
institutionalized effort at suppressing the technology&nbsp;- OTOH, eye=20
witnesses with whom I have communicated, have vouched for the accuracy =
of at=20
least one "wassercar" i.e. water powered engine, so there is both =
lingering=20
doubt and wishful thinking:</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/other_hfsystems.html">http://www.c=
yberspaceorbit.com/other_hfsystems.html</A></DIV>
<DIV><A=20
href=3D"http://home.pacific.net.au/~apophis/howitsdone.html">http://home.=
pacific.net.au/~apophis/howitsdone.html</A></DIV>
<DIV><A=20
href=3D"http://www.keelynet.com/energy/waterfuel.htm">http://www.keelynet=
.com/energy/waterfuel.htm</A></DIV>
<DIV>an older claim</DIV>
<DIV><A=20
href=3D"http://www.hasslberger.com/tecno/hydrogen.html">http://www.hasslb=
erger.com/tecno/hydrogen.html</A></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I would not have even brought this subject up had not a new forum =
for=20
wassercar inventors sprung up - most claims are&nbsp;in increasing =
mileage of IC=20
engines (a V-8 that gets over 100 mpg) using gasoline plus on-board=20
self-generated hydrogen.
<DIV><A href=3D"http://oupower.com/forum/">http://oupower.com/forum/</A> =

</DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>For&nbsp;decades,&nbsp;unproven claims of anomalies in hydrogen =
production=20
(Like Brown's gas or the Meyer cell, Keely, Puharich, =
etc&nbsp;)&nbsp;and OU=20
from electrolysis, have come and lingered, despite the scoffing of=20
experts&nbsp;- only this newer technique (the wassercar) is slightly =
different=20
in an important way - it draws the intake air through the electrolysis =
cell=20
itself...and that might be&nbsp;the one&nbsp;factor that makes all the=20
difference from a theoretical POV. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Again, none of this is proven, and the recent blip in interest =
would all=20
sound very much like more of the same old nonsense we have been hearing =
for=20
years except the newer inventors above are not seeking funding, =
investment, nor=20
even selling overpriced books, nor anything else except shared =
expertise, and=20
moreover there is, ta da... presented below, the beginnings of a =
theoretical way=20
to explain in principle how this could be pulled off (i.e. the water =
powered=20
engine). But it is not simple.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>REACTION 1. If you use enough electrical energy to split off the =
protons=20
from two moles of water, you would expect to get 2 moles of hydrogen and =
one of=20
oxygen, 3 moles in total of reactive gas plus some wasted heat. When =
those two=20
gases later burn, the H2 and O2 molecular bonds subtract from the final =
heat=20
output so there is a double built-in inefficiency that gives you =
just&nbsp;two=20
moles of extremely hot gas to drive a piston.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>REACTION 2. If instead you are somehow able to use the same amount =
of=20
electrical energy (plus a little ingenuity)&nbsp;to split off and =
immediately=20
capture single protons from 4 moles of water, leaving&nbsp;all hydroxyl =
radicals=20
intact, then you could get 8 moles of reactive gas from the same amount =
of input=20
energy (it will be explained more fully below). The 8 moles will have =
only=20
slightly more real energy content then the 3 moles of Reaction1, but=20
in&nbsp;Reaction 2,&nbsp;it might possibly to convert the heat energy =
into gas=20
pressure far more efficiently, with a very tiny amount of added =
hydrocarbon=20
fuel, since the unstable bonding leaves little to subtract from, and =
there=20
are&nbsp;2.67 more moles present and you don't need all that extremely =
high heat=20
in order to get high enough gas pressure to efficiently push a piston. =
Bottom=20
line, if done correctly, about&nbsp;three times the gas pressure per =
unit of=20
input energy is possible&nbsp;when the design is optimized for "gas =
pressure"=20
rather than heat.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>It is gas pressure, not heat energy, that drives a piston in an =
automobile.=20
</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>There is&nbsp;some direct connection between the two, but it is not =

necessarily a linear connection, and varies greatly with thermochemical =
dynamics=20
of each situation. Therefore, this fact bears repeating: It is gas =
pressure, not=20
heat energy, that drives a piston in an automobile. You can even do it=20
efficiently with liquid air as a fuel at minus 175 degrees f.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>All this&nbsp;talk about "moles" can be&nbsp;a little confusing, so =

consider this real world example. At room temperature, nitrous oxide, =
N2O, is=20
quite unreactive. It is therefore widely used as a propellant in aerosol =
cans in=20
place of the CFCs which can damage the ozone layer. When heated =
sufficiently,=20
however, N2O will decompose exothermically to N2 and O2. Even so, one =
would not=20
expect the resulting gas pressure to exceed that of equal amount of O2 =
alone,=20
but it does. Why?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>When this reaction occurs in the combustion chamber of an =
automobile, as it=20
does thousands of times every weekend in various car races, 3 moles of=20
propellant gas&nbsp;are produced from 2 moles of input gas, providing an =

approximate 50% extra volume gas pressure boost to the piston, even =
before the=20
chemical reaction sets in. It also has another benefit&nbsp;as =
the&nbsp;latent=20
heat of vaporization of the N2O reduces the intake temperature allowing =
more=20
efficient compression. For these reasons, N2O is injected into the fuel =
lines of=20
racing cars to achieve huge boosts of power and exceptional =
acceleration.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Next, consider the uniqueness of hydrogen bonds - which constitute =
an=20
unusual type of interatomic interaction, with energies typically in the =
range of=20
2=9610 kcal mol=961. These values are intermediate between covalent =
bonds and "weak"=20
interactions, such as Van der Waals forces. Van der Waals forces are =
caused by=20
"beta aether" pressures (aka ZPE)&nbsp;at subnanometer scale geometries =
and can=20
be the equivalent of many thousands of atms, and are especially evident =
in=20
water, giving it an extremely high phase-change obstacle to be overcome =
if using=20
only heat to vaporize H2O. These very forces, the beta =
aether,&nbsp;might=20
possibly be harnessed, however,&nbsp;when "refocused" slightly to push =
free=20
electrons around in order to form dozens of *intermediate* reactions =
between=20
water and air (short lived quasi-stable combinations) that are stable =
just long=20
enough to catalyze efficient high gas pressure production in an =
automobile=20
engine.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The small, but significant energy of the hydrogen bond allows its =
formation=20
and disruption under a wide range of temperatures and catalytic =
conditions. For=20
hydrogen bonds in water: H-O-H, the two molecular bonds act like little =
"slinky"=20
springs both attached to one hemisphere of the O atom, leaving the other =
end=20
charged and essentially bare. When this elastic polar molecule is placed =
in=20
an&nbsp;electric field, it constantly tries to rotate to align with =
field lines=20
which are always straight,&nbsp;but.... given that one or the other of =
the=20
two&nbsp;protons will always be periodically more tightly bound with the =
O, then=20
the&nbsp;resultant OH will be slightly more rigid, leaving the first H =
atom=20
freer to disattach. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>There may well be techniques to maximize&nbsp;the production of =
protons=20
from water, while&nbsp;leaving the hydroxyl intact, and those ways would =
involve=20
the concurrent vaporization of a greater quantity of supersaturated =
water vapor=20
than the quantity of protons to be split-off,&nbsp;so that before the =
protons=20
can react to form an H2 molecule,&nbsp;each is able to attach to a water =

molecule to give H3O+, the all-important&nbsp;*hydronium ion* which has =
a short=20
lifetime, along with a *hydrated electron* which has an even shorter =
lifetime,=20
but just long enough perhaps to stay intact until&nbsp;they =
can&nbsp;interact in=20
the engine's combustion chamber. Timing is critical.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Concurrently&nbsp;in this kind of electrolysis cell, the hydroxyl =
radicals=20
which remain are forming short-lived quasi-stable compound ions of their =
own by=20
attachment to N2 or O2 from air being sucked through the cell giving =
unstable=20
ions like N2OH- or HO3- and other oxides of nitrogen that provide =
extremely high=20
oxidation potential, in order&nbsp;to thoroughly burn a small amount of =
added=20
hydrocarbons. In short, the beta aether itself, which has been holding =
the water=20
together in liquid form, suddenly shifts its force due to the appearance =
if=20
entrained air, in order to provide a temporary plethora of unstable =
chemicals.=20
Any "extra energy" that is involved may look like it is increased =
thermodynamic=20
efficiency, but in reality it is ZPE utilization.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The above ramblings are a first step in trying to find a =
hypothetical basis=20
for a phenomenon that, admittedly,&nbsp;might not even exist. It may be =
a=20
rationalization and it may even be counter-productive.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Time will tell, but I wouldn't have wasted the time with this =
posting if I=20
thought the prospect for the wassercar was utterly hopeless. But then =
again, If=20
I had read these very words a month ago, my initial reaction would have =
been=20
that its all just more of the same bunko free-energy scam of Meyer et=20
al.&nbsp;Maybe it is.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>At the very least, I'm keeping an eye on this new wassercar forum, =
crude as=20
it is, and also will be looking to find a cheapo auto engine to play =
around=20
with...</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Jones</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr  7 11:34:01 2003
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Hello Keith, et al.

I've tried various high K powders in wax, but the results weren't very good.  Usually what happens, especially in the case of titanium dioxide (K=150), is that when the powder exceeds a certain percentage, the wax just solidifies and no longer melts or pours easily.

Acetone thinned epoxy sounds like a good idea, which might keep the slurry fluid enough to pour into a mold.  Barium titanate powder is sold commercially and titanium dioxide powder is available as a relatively inexpensive paint pigment.

You don't say whether dielectric hysterisis is important for your purpose.  Barium titanate has a rather high hysterisis, whereas titatanium dioxide's is quite low for such a high K.  Grav cap?

M.

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Hi Mike.

I ordered a pound of the stuff (Barium titanate) for 25$, from a local
supplier. I'm hoping to use a thin epoxy for this material, which
will lower the dielectric constant alot but also linearize the
material and reduce hysteresis. As the firing temp of the
titanate is 1300C I'm not looking forward to baking it,
here's hoping that I can get a K of several 100 from molding
a slurry.

I may write more about the experiment after I do it, but
if it is successful I would have IP considerations...
The device I'm considering is a sensor. And has nothing
to do with grav cap, or hodawanec, or any of that
rubbish (grin). My recent foray into electrostatics
is a real departure for me. I bought the glassman 50KV
supply to use as a cap charger, primarily. It's good
for charging my .7uF 50KV caps. Yes, that's MICRO farad.

K.

PS: Speaking of backwards worlds, in the news today,
the supreme court in a 5-4 decision upheld laws
banning cross burning. A good thing, yes? And the
dissenting opinion, supporting cross burning? Penned
by none other than Clarence Thomas. I suggest that
if you're looking for a rotating free energy machine,
hook up a generator to the grave of Justice Thurgood
Marshall. I suspect he's spun up to 50,000RPM and
holding steady right now...

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Foster [mailto:michael.foster excite.com]
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 2:31 PM
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: RE: Question about dielectrics



Hello Keith, et al.

I've tried various high K powders in wax, but the results weren't very good.
Usually what happens, especially in the case of titanium dioxide (K=150), is
that when the powder exceeds a certain percentage, the wax just solidifies
and no longer melts or pours easily.

Acetone thinned epoxy sounds like a good idea, which might keep the slurry
fluid enough to pour into a mold.  Barium titanate powder is sold
commercially and titanium dioxide powder is available as a relatively
inexpensive paint pigment.

You don't say whether dielectric hysterisis is important for your purpose.
Barium titanate has a rather high hysterisis, whereas titatanium dioxide's
is quite low for such a high K.  Grav cap?

M.

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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr  7 13:01:56 2003
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Boy, this thing begs for some editing.

I like the end of the file, where they republish Nick Cooks
book in total. Copyright laws??? Nyet! If you find
something good, index the page number please.

Some interesting stuff though. Has anyone followed up
on that Roschin and Godin research?

K.
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Jones Beene [mailto:jonesb9 pacbell.net]
  Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 2:15 PM
  To: vortex
  Subject: Large anti-gravity file


  If you have a broadband connection and an interest in Russian anti-gravity
research (esp Podkletnov) there is a large (40 meg) pdf file in English at

  http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/gravity/gravitsapa.pdf

  along with assorted other stuff, such as the Russian slant on the current
situation.

  The file took about 45 minutes with DSL to download, so the problem is
probably a slow server on their end.

  I haven't yet found much new in the 1300 page file, except one reference
to the Russian inventor Ivan Stepanovitch Filimonenko, who is said to have
preceded P&F by 27 years but may never get the credit he deserves if CF does
eventually amount to anything...  from other info:
  "In 1962 Filimonenko got a Russian patent #717239/38 "Process and System
for Thermo-emission". Main claim of Filimonenko's process is the
electrolysis of heavy water. The absorption of deuterium take place in hard
cathode ( palladium ) and it is the place for fusion reaction. There are no
neutron emission for this case."

  This may be one reason that Utah let the P&F patent lapse - as, if it were
ever challenged in court... it was apparently lacking in originality!

  All Filimonenko's works was stopped in 1968. Inventor got 6 years of
prison to stop his activity against the State-supported nuclear programmes.

  Now there is some real "free energy" suppression, cold war style !

  Jones


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1252" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><BASE=20
href=3D"file://C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft =
Shared\Stationery\">
<STYLE>BODY {
	BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; COLOR: =
#000000; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 25px; =
MARGIN-TOP: 25px
}
</STYLE>

<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D700050620-07042003>Boy, this thing begs for some=20
editing.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D700050620-07042003></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D700050620-07042003>I like the end of the file, where =
they=20
republish Nick Cooks</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D700050620-07042003>book in total. Copyright laws??? =
Nyet! If=20
you find</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D700050620-07042003>something good, index the page =
number=20
please.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D700050620-07042003></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D700050620-07042003>Some interesting stuff though. Has =
anyone=20
followed up</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D700050620-07042003>on that Roschin and Godin =
research?=20
</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D700050620-07042003></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D700050620-07042003>K.</SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Jones Beene=20
  [mailto:jonesb9 pacbell.net]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, April 05, 2003 =
2:15=20
  PM<BR><B>To:</B> vortex<BR><B>Subject:</B> Large anti-gravity=20
  file<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
  <DIV>If you have a broadband connection and an interest in Russian=20
  anti-gravity research (esp Podkletnov) there is a large (40 meg) pdf =
file in=20
  English&nbsp;at</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/gravity/gravitsapa.pdf">http://=
www.aeronautics.ru/archive/gravity/gravitsapa.pdf</A></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>along with assorted other stuff, such as the Russian slant on the =
current=20
  situation.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>The file took about 45 minutes with DSL to download, so the =
problem is=20
  probably a slow server on their end.</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DTimesNewRomanPSMT size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DTimesNewRomanPSMT size=3D3>I haven't yet found much =
new in the=20
  1300 page file, except one reference to the Russian inventor Ivan =
Stepanovitch=20
  Filimonenko, who is said to have preceded P&amp;F by 27 years but may =
never=20
  get the credit he deserves if CF does eventually amount to =
anything...&nbsp;=20
  from other info:</DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P align=3Dleft>"In 1962 Filimonenko got a Russian patent #717239/38 =
"Process=20
  and System for Thermo-emission". Main claim of Filimonenko's process =
is the=20
  electrolysis of heavy water. The absorption of deuterium take place in =
hard=20
  cathode ( palladium ) and it is the place for fusion reaction. There =
are no=20
  neutron emission for this case."</P>
  <P align=3Dleft>This may be one reason that Utah let the P&amp;F =
patent lapse=20
  -&nbsp;as,&nbsp;if it were ever challenged in court...&nbsp;it was =
apparently=20
  lacking in originality!</P>
  <P align=3Dleft>All Filimonenko's works was stopped in 1968. Inventor =
got 6=20
  years of prison to stop his activity against the State-supported =
nuclear=20
  programmes. </P>
  <P align=3Dleft>Now there is some real "free energy" suppression, cold =
war style=20
  !</P>
  <P align=3Dleft>Jones</P></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr  7 14:07:06 2003
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William Beaty wrote:

> Here's a vaguely similar phenomenon
> JL Naudin: PFT motor 
> http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/pftm2.htm
> The above "bottle motor" has no brushes to make it asymmetrical.
> It spins CW or CCW depending on initial manual spin.  It runs at 
> 3000RPM, 30KV,100uA.

Speaking of dielectric hysteresis, I think that's what makes this motor run.  What we have here is a Poggendorf-Jefimenko type motor, but without the corona!  Very interesting. Jean-Louis seems to think this is powered by Poynting flow, but that would mean it would work without the dielectric covering of the rotor, which it might, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Rather than depending on Poynting flow for an explanation, think about how simple it is to assert that the insulated rotor cylinder is charged by induction by the two stator electrodes, and of course it remains stationary.  But as soon as the rotor is spun externally, the lag in the induced charge caused by the dielectric hysteresis of the insulating layer causes an attraction to the opposite stator.  And of course, once started this would continue.

Who thought of this arrangement?  Was it Naudin or someone else?

This might also explain why my three soda can electroscope started spinning, if the charges were unequal.  The coating on American aluminum soft drink cans is a cationic initiated UV cured cycloaliphatic epoxide with a fairly high dielectric constant.  I have no idea what sort of coating or printing is used in other countries, although it's probably the same.

M.



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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr  8 00:23:14 2003
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Leon says that according to Mills, the electron gets larger as it's 
orbit decays. Hum, it seems to me that the electron unwinds as it 
looses energy. Does anyone know the relative sizes of the electron to 
the proton?

Leon is quite impressed with Mills' book, he just ordered a bound 
copy of it. He says that every time he rereads it, he gains further 
insights.

One of Leon's books says that there is .015% deuterium, so there 
should be 1 atom of deuterium for every 15,000 protium atoms. I told 
him that as I recall, the ratio is 1 : 7632. Mills has done 
experiments with all of the isotopes of hydrogen. Leon said something 
about making a hydrino out of lithium, I told him that as far as I 
know, the effect is limited to hydrogen. I looked through the index, 
and failed to notice any reference to chemical reactions, are those 
covered in another book?

I read the page on the BLP website about the plasma magneto dynamic 
generator. Does anyone know at what stage of development this machine 
is in?

Leon went on to say that he has heard that electrons occurred in 
electron positron pairs. I told him that while this was the case when 
they arise out of the quantum foam, I doubted that this was normally 
the case, because they would annihilate each other.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr  8 00:23:20 2003
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I deleted the URL, can someone please repost it?

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Thomas,

Sam's research page is at www.geocities.com/spfaile/

Just a simple page, set up and maintained by my son Trevor.

Best,

NR

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "thomas malloy" <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 3:20 AM
Subject: Sam Faile's website


> I deleted the URL, can someone please repost it?
> 
> 

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Sam Faile is amazing! I cannot tell whether his ideas are valid or not, but 
he is full of original and fascinating notions. I am glad that someone has 
organized & presented his work. He used to circulate hand-written mail, 
which was difficult to read.

- Jed


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Subject: Re: Sam Faile's website
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 17:24:15 -0400
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Jed,

I'll pass your comments on to Dr. Faile, I am sure he would be most happy to
hear you have been reading these items.  I have known Sam for about 12
years, and yes, he has an incredibly fertile scientific imagination that
allows him to integrate very diverse concepts and models.  I think that part
of the amazement I have with Sam is that he works with all the diligence of
a fully funded researcher, but does so out of a tiny apartment, on a meager
survival-only income, using only everyday materials available at Radio Shack
or the grocery store.  (Without typewriter and computer as well)  It's an
honor to help him out any way I can.  Yes, he still sends photocopied
mailings, too!

Best,

NR

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jed Rothwell" <JedRothwell mindspring.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 5:05 PM
Subject: Re: Sam Faile's website


> Sam Faile is amazing! I cannot tell whether his ideas are valid or not,
but
> he is full of original and fascinating notions. I am glad that someone has
> organized & presented his work. He used to circulate hand-written mail,
> which was difficult to read.
>
> - Jed
>
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr  8 17:58:47 2003
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Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 17:56:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
To: Michael Foster <michael.foster excite.com>
cc: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: RE: Fast-spinning cylinder
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On Mon, 7 Apr 2003, Michael Foster wrote:

> Speaking of dielectric hysteresis, I think that's what makes this motor
> run.

But there's a DC current component.  That means charges MUST leave the
surface of the stator electrodes and leap to the rotor (or at least leap
into the air and then cause a major "electric wind" effect.


>  What we have here is a Poggendorf-Jefimenko type motor, but
> without the corona!

I wouldn't bet on that.  If you put some plastic between two electrodes,
then if the voltage is high enough you get direct current flowing into the
air via the corona...  and ending up as surface charge on the plastic.  A
spark TRIES to jump between electrodes, but it is dim and fuzzy, and it
deposits charge on the plastic.

ALso, if the rotor was held stationary, then the corona would initially
deposit some charge on the plastic, but then the field surrounding the
plastic would repel any further charges, and the current would go to zero.
Rotating the rotor will expose some fresh uncharged plastic and allow the
process to repeat.  (Once it has made one turn, then OPPOSITE charged
plastic from the other can is brought under each can-electrode, so the
voltage between the plastic and the electrode will be twice as high as
you'd otherwise suspect.)

I'd predict that this is just a Jefimenko sectorless cylindrical razor
blade corona-motor but using pop-cans instead of razor blades.  Crank up
the voltage high enough and even a smooth pop can will spew corona towards
a nearby grounded plate.



(((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                            SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                            http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair
Seattle, WA  206-789-0775    unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr  8 21:59:39 2003
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From: Erikbaard aol.com
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Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 00:52:00 EDT
Subject: Iron Age was delayed by "Not Invented Here."
To: hydrino yahoogroups.com
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Hi All -

I was looking for was rituals, ceremonies, or other activities used to mark 
the return of soldiers to civilian life -- in other words, to paraphrase a 
20th century saying, "How you gonna keep them down on the farm after they've 
seen Babylon?"  It was for a Village Voice article 
(http://villagevoice.com/issues/0315/baard.php), and I didn't succeed.

What I did find seemed like something you folks would enjoy reading.  Please 
don't read too much into this, as far as resistance to new energy ideas, but 
I thought you might enjoy this illustration of the consistency of human 
nature.  

>From "Ancient Mesopotamian Military Organization" by Prof. Stephanie Dalley, 
an Assyriologist at Oxford University's Oriental Institute.   

<<The very slow transition from bronze to iron may have been due to not so 
much to conservatism as to technical and social factors:  bronze working was 
highly developed and successful; moreover bronze workers were esteemed and 
members of the hierarchy of and palaces and temples.  Ironworkers, on the 
other hand, had begun to develop their skills in Anatolia before the Dark Age 
(circa 1150-1000 BC) and entered Mesopotamia as displaced foreign emigrants 
who were virtually tinkers.

It may have been an advantage that the changeover was gradual, for no 
disruption in supply or quality can be discerned; indeed, the new competition 
seems to have stimulated bronze production.>>

Prof. Dalley's work was included in a wonderful multi-volume compendium of 
research papers called "Civilizations of the Ancient Near East" 
(http://www.hendrickson.com/html/product/36074.trade.html?category=all).

Best regards,

Erik

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William Beaty wrote:

> I'd predict that this is just a Jefimenko sectorless cylindrical
> razor blade corona-motor but using pop-cans instead of razor
> blades. Crank up the voltage high enough and even a smooth pop can
> will spew corona towards a nearby grounded plate.

Now that I think about it some more, you're probably right.  30 kV with those soda cans that close to the insulated rotor is bound to result in some corona.  I was kind of hoping that Naudin had come up with something new.  Guess not.

M.



_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr  9 00:41:33 2003
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From: Erikbaard aol.com
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Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 03:38:00 EDT
Subject: Re: Iron Age was delayed by "Not Invented Here."
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Yikes!  I was tired and distracted when I posted.  Err, still am.  What you 
got was slapped together from several texts and, as a result, weirdly 
structured.  Let me re-post:

I was looking to supplement a Village Voice article 
(http://villagevoice.com/issues/0315/baard.php) with examples of ancient 
Assyrian rituals, ceremonies, or other activities that marked the return of 
soldiers to civilian life.  In other words, to paraphrase a 
20th century saying, "How you gonna keep them down on the farm after they've 
seen Babylon?"  

I didn't succeed, but what I did find seemed like something you folks would 
enjoy reading.  Please don't read too much into this, as far as resistance to 
new energy ideas, but I thought you might enjoy this illustration of the 
consistency of human 
nature.  

>From "Ancient Mesopotamian Military Organization" by Prof. Stephanie Dalley, 
an Assyriologist at Oxford University's Oriental Institute.   

<<The very slow transition from bronze to iron may have been due to not so 
much to conservatism as to technical and social factors:  bronze working was 
highly developed and successful; moreover bronze workers were esteemed and 
members of the hierarchy of and palaces and temples.  Ironworkers, on the 
other hand, had begun to develop their skills in Anatolia before the Dark Age 

(circa 1150-1000 BC) and entered Mesopotamia as displaced foreign emigrants 
who were virtually tinkers.

It may have been an advantage that the changeover was gradual, for no 
disruption in supply or quality can be discerned; indeed, the new competition 

seems to have stimulated bronze production.>>

Prof. Dalley's work was included in a wonderful multi-volume compendium of 
research papers called "Civilizations of the Ancient Near East" 
(http://www.hendrickson.com/html/product/36074.trade.html?category=all).

Best regards,

Erik


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr  9 01:10:11 2003
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Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 03:07:29 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: The internal combustion engine
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<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<html><head><style type="text/css"><!--
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { padding-top: 0 ; padding-bottom: 0 }
 --></style><title>The internal combustion engine</title></head><body>
<div>Jones Breene posted</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Most of us&nbsp;are aware that a typical
gasoline IC engine is said by the experts to be not very efficient,
but &quot;uncommon sense&quot; has told some &quot;under-educated&quot;
inventors otherwise, that the problem is in the antiquated design,
which hasn't really changed all&nbsp;that much in the last
seventy-five years.</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>The I C engine is truly not very efficient. My friend Phil, who
has a BS ME purchased a set of plans from a website with a URL of
137MPGcarburator.com, or something like that. I pointed out to him
that IMHO, if he could accomplish such a feat, he'd better get a gas
powered heater because not only would the exhaust be cold, but so
would the coolant. I haven't heard any more about that project.</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Thermodynamics is a complicated subject,
and like philosophy, most&nbsp;of its basic laws<font face="Arial">
are</font><i> phenomenological</i>, in the sense that they represent
empirical relations between</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>As Howard, who used to teach Chem E at the U of M pointed out,
&quot;combustion is a black art.&quot;</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>would require a supercomputer to
quantify.</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>&nbsp;</blockquote>
<div>Thermodynamically, the&nbsp;average new car is less than 18%
efficient at converting thermal energy from gasoline into mechanical
energy. The highest claim I have seen</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>That's what I've heard, however, I think that 18% only happens
when you are going 55 MPH or something.<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>ta da... presented below, the beginnings
of a theoretical way to explain in principle how this could be pulled
off (i.e. the water powered engine). But it is not
simple.</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>&nbsp;</blockquote>
<div>REACTION 1. If you use enough electrical energy to split off the
protons from two moles of water, you would expect to get 2 moles of
hydrogen and one of oxygen, 3</div>
<div><br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>REACTION 2. If instead you are somehow
able to use the same amount of electrical energy (plus a little
ingenuity)&nbsp;to split off and immediately capture single protons
f</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>&nbsp;</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>Reaction 3, you figure out how to disassociate water with sonic
vibrations, al lah Puharitch.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Reaction 4 you get BLP technology to work. Have any of you people
gotten the BLP people to respond?</div>
</body>
</html>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr  9 07:31:42 2003
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From: ConexTom aol.com
Message-ID: <175.18cf5256.2bc587e0 aol.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 10:27:44 EDT
Subject: Re: Increasing the Efficiency of Solar Cells with Nonlinear Photonic Crystals
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In a message dated 4/3/2003 2:32:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
ConexTom aol.com writes:

> Increasing the Efficiency of Solar Cells with Nonlinear Optical Photonic 
> Crystals and Phase Modulators
> 
> http://www.phys.uni-sofia.bg/~saltiel/saltiel2000OL.pdf

Raman Amplification Design in Wavelength Division Miltiplexing Systems posted 
at 
<A HREF="http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/raman/topic02.html?Next.x=42&Next.y=15">http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/raman/topic02.html?Next.x=42&Next.y=15</A> 
can be used to increase the efficiency of solar cells by amplifying the 
visible region of the solar cell with higher bandwidth photons as the 
photonic pump, and which also allows fiber optic circuts to be used as solar 
cells and circuits. 

"<A HREF="http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/raman/topic02.html?Next.x=42&Next.y=15">http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/raman/topic02.html?Next.x=42&Next.y=15</A> 

2. How Can Raman Amplification Be of Help?One of the most recent and 
interesting developments includes the constructive usage of the so-called 
Raman effect in optical fibers. A Raman amplifier uses intrinsic properties 
of silica fibers to obtain signal amplification. This means that transmission 
fibers can be used as a medium for amplification, and hence that the 
intrinsic attenuation of data signals transmitted over the fiber can be 
combated within the fiber. An amplifier working on the basis of this 
principle is commonly known as a distributed Raman amplifier (DRA).The 
physical property behind DRAs is called SRS. This occurs when a sufficiently 
large pump wave is co-launched at a lower wavelength than the signal to be 
amplified. The Raman gain depends strongly on the pump power and the 
frequency offset between pump and signal. Amplification occurs when the pump 
photon gives up its energy to create a new photon at the signal wavelength, 
plus some residual energy, which is absorbed as phonons (vibrational energy) 
as shown in Figure 2.
Figure 2. Energy States during SRS

As there is a wide range of vibrational states above the ground state, a 
broad range of possible transitions are providing gain. This is shown in 
Figure 2 by means of the shaded region. Generally, Raman gain increases 
almost linearly with wavelength offset between signal and pump peaking at 
about 100 nm and then dropping rapidly with increased offset. Figure 3 shows 
a typically measured Raman gain curve. The usable gain bandwidth is about 48 
nm.
Figure 3. Typical Raman Gain Curve versus Wavelength Offset

The position of the gain bandwidth within the wavelength domain can be 
adjusted simply by tuning the pump wavelength. Thus, Raman amplification 
potentially can be achieved in every region of the transmission window of the 
optical transmission fiber. It only depends on the availability of powerful 
pump sources at the required wavelengths. The disadvantage of Raman 
amplification is the need for high pump powers to provide a reasonable 
gain.This opens a new range of possible applications. It is possible, for 
instance, to partially compensate fiber attenuation using the Raman effect 
and, thus, to increase the EDFA spacing. The Raman pump wave can be 
conveniently placed at the EDFA locations. This saves costs as less EDFAs are 
needed on the link, and the number of sites to be maintained is 
reduced.Another application of the Raman effect is given with hybrid 
EDFA/Raman amplifiers characterized by a flat gain over especially large 
bandwidths. Repeaters can be built that compensate the nonflatness of the 
EDFA gain with a more flexible Raman gain. Multiwavelength pumping could be 
used to shape the Raman gain such that it equalizes for the EDFA gain 
shaping.Also, the Raman effect on its own might be used for signal 
amplification in transmission windows that cannot be covered properly by 
EDFAs. Some frequency regions of a wideband WDM signal could be amplified by 
common EDFA structures, while others are amplified using the Raman effect and 
proper pumping. The upgrade of already existing systems by opening another 
transmission window where Raman amplification is applied could be an 
attractive application.
  
        

    
<A HREF="http://www.iec.org/cgi-bin/acrobat.pl?filecode=118">
</A>DOWNLOAD PDF of this tutorial   
    TABLE OF CONTENTS:
<A HREF="http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/raman/index.html">Definition and Overview</A>
<A HREF="http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/raman/topic01.html">1 Traditional Configuration of WDM Systems</A>
<A HREF="http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/raman/topic02.html">2 How Can Raman Amplification Be of Help?</A>
<A HREF="http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/raman/topic03.html">3 Erbium-Doped Fiber versus Raman Amplification</A>
<A HREF="http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/raman/topic04.html">4 Raman Amplification in Wideband WDM Transmission</A>
<A HREF="http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/raman/topic05.html">5 Raman Amplification to Build Bidirectional WDM Systems</A>
<A HREF="http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/raman/topic06.html">6 Raman Amplification and Fiber Nonlinearities</A>
<A HREF="http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/raman/topic07.html">7 Conclusion</A>
<A HREF="http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/raman/selftest.html">Self-Test</A>
<A HREF="http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/raman/answers.html">Correct Answers</A>
<A HREF="http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/raman/glossary.html">Glossary</A>
<A HREF="http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/raman/comment.html">Comment on This Tutorial</A>    "

    
    



Baron Von Volsung, <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com\baron">www.rhfweb.com\baron</A>, Email: tom rhfweb.com
President Thomas D. Clark, tom rhfweb.com, <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com\personal">www.rhfweb.com\personal</A>
New Age Production's Inc., <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com\newage">www.rhfweb.com\newage</A>
Star Haven Community Services, at <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com\sh">www.rhfweb.com\sh</A>
Radiation Health Foundation Trust at <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com">www.rhfweb.com</A>


































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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=
=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 4/3/2003 2:32:07 PM Eastern Standar=
d Time, ConexTom aol.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT=
: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Increasing the Efficiency of So=
lar Cells with Nonlinear Optical Photonic Crystals and Phase Modulators<BR>
<BR>
http://www.phys.uni-sofia.bg/~saltiel/saltiel2000OL.pdf</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Raman Amplification Design in Wavelength Division Miltiplexing Systems poste=
d at <BR>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/raman/topic02.html?Next.x=3D4=
2&Next.y=3D15">http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/raman/topic02.html?Next.x=
=3D42&amp;Next.y=3D15</A> can be used to increase the efficiency of solar ce=
lls by amplifying the visible region of the solar cell with higher bandwidth=
 photons as the photonic pump, and which also allows fiber optic circuts to=20=
be used as solar cells and circuits. <BR>
<BR>
"<A HREF=3D"http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/raman/topic02.html?Next.x=
=3D42&Next.y=3D15">http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/raman/topic02.html?Ne=
xt.x=3D42&amp;Next.y=3D15</A> <BR>
<BR>
2. How Can Raman Amplification Be of Help?One of the most recent and interes=
ting developments includes the constructive usage of the so-called Raman eff=
ect in optical fibers. A Raman amplifier uses intrinsic properties of silica=
 fibers to obtain signal amplification. This means that transmission fibers=20=
can be used as a medium for amplification, and hence that the intrinsic atte=
nuation of data signals transmitted over the fiber can be combated within th=
e fiber. An amplifier working on the basis of this principle is commonly kno=
wn as a distributed Raman amplifier (DRA).The physical property behind DRAs=20=
is called SRS. This occurs when a sufficiently large pump wave is co-launche=
d at a lower wavelength than the signal to be amplified. The Raman gain depe=
nds strongly on the pump power and the frequency offset between pump and sig=
nal. Amplification occurs when the pump photon gives up its energy to create=
 a new photon at the signal wavelength, plus some residual energy, which is=20=
absorbed as phonons (vibrational energy) as shown in <I>Figure 2</I>.<BR>
Figure 2. Energy States during SRS<IMG  SRC=3D"http://www.iec.org/online/tut=
orials/raman/images/figure02.gif" WIDTH=3D"300" HEIGHT=3D"118" BORDER=3D"0">=
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2=
 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BR>
As there is a wide range of vibrational states above the ground state, a bro=
ad range of possible transitions are providing gain. This is shown in <I>Fig=
ure 2</I> by means of the shaded region. Generally, Raman gain increases alm=
ost linearly with wavelength offset between signal and pump peaking at about=
 100 nm and then dropping rapidly with increased offset. <I>Figure 3</I> sho=
ws a typically measured Raman gain curve. The usable gain bandwidth is about=
 48 nm.<BR>
Figure 3. Typical Raman Gain Curve versus Wavelength Offset<IMG  SRC=3D"http=
://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/raman/images/figure03.gif" WIDTH=3D"400" HEI=
GHT=3D"263" BORDER=3D"0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2=
 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BR>
The position of the gain bandwidth within the wavelength domain can be adjus=
ted simply by tuning the pump wavelength. Thus, Raman amplification potentia=
lly can be achieved in every region of the transmission window of the optica=
l transmission fiber. It only depends on the availability of powerful pump s=
ources at the required wavelengths. The disadvantage of Raman amplification=20=
is the need for high pump powers to provide a reasonable gain.This opens a n=
ew range of possible applications. It is possible, for instance, to partiall=
y compensate fiber attenuation using the Raman effect and, thus, to increase=
 the EDFA spacing. The Raman pump wave can be conveniently placed at the EDF=
A locations. This saves costs as less EDFAs are needed on the link, and the=20=
number of sites to be maintained is reduced.Another application of the Raman=
 effect is given with hybrid EDFA/Raman amplifiers characterized by a flat g=
ain over especially large bandwidths. Repeaters can be built that compensate=
 the nonflatness of the EDFA gain with a more flexible Raman gain. Multiwave=
length pumping could be used to shape the Raman gain such that it equalizes=20=
for the EDFA gain shaping.Also, the Raman effect on its own might be used fo=
r signal amplification in transmission windows that cannot be covered proper=
ly by EDFAs. Some frequency regions of a wideband WDM signal could be amplif=
ied by common EDFA structures, while others are amplified using the Raman ef=
fect and proper pumping. The upgrade of already existing systems by opening=20=
another transmission window where Raman amplification is applied could be an=
 attractive application.<BR>
&nbsp; <BR>
<P ALIGN=3DCENTER>        <BR>
<BR>
<P ALIGN=3DLEFT><IMG  SRC=3D"http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/images/tuto=
rial_cd_ad.gif" WIDTH=3D"306" HEIGHT=3D"26" BORDER=3D"0">    <BR>
<IMG  SRC=3D"http://www.iec.org/online/images/pdficon.gif" WIDTH=3D"22" HEIG=
HT=3D"24" BORDER=3D"0"><A HREF=3D"http://www.iec.org/cgi-bin/acrobat.pl?file=
code=3D118">
</A>D</FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZ=
E=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">OWNLOAD PDF of this tut=
orial   <BR>
    TABLE OF CONTENTS:<BR>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/raman/index.html">Definition=20=
and Overview</A><BR>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/raman/topic01.html">1 Traditi=
onal Configuration of WDM Systems</A><BR>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/raman/topic02.html">2 How Can=
 Raman Amplification Be of Help?</A><BR>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/raman/topic03.html">3 Erbium-=
Doped Fiber versus Raman Amplification</A><BR>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/raman/topic04.html">4 Raman A=
mplification in Wideband WDM Transmission</A><BR>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/raman/topic05.html">5 Raman A=
mplification to Build Bidirectional WDM Systems</A><BR>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/raman/topic06.html">6 Raman A=
mplification and Fiber Nonlinearities</A><BR>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/raman/topic07.html">7 Conclus=
ion</A><BR>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/raman/selftest.html">Self-Tes=
t</A><BR>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/raman/answers.html">Correct A=
nswers</A><BR>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/raman/glossary.html">Glossary=
</A><BR>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/raman/comment.html">Comment o=
n This Tutorial</A>    "<BR>
<BR>
    <BR>
    <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Baron Von Volsung, <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\baron">www.rhfweb.com\baron</A>=
, Email: tom rhfweb.com<BR>
President Thomas D. Clark, tom rhfweb.com, <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\persona=
l">www.rhfweb.com\personal</A><BR>
New Age Production's Inc., <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\newage">www.rhfweb.com\=
newage</A><BR>
Star Haven Community Services, at <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\sh">www.rhfweb.c=
om\sh</A><BR>
Radiation Health Foundation Trust at <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com">www.rhfweb.c=
om</A><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</P></P></FONT></HTML>
--part1_175.18cf5256.2bc587e0_boundary--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr  9 12:13:46 2003
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Reply-To: <knagel gis.net>
From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: "ou-Builders" <ou-builders yahoogroups.com>,
        "Vortex" <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Wistrom electrostatic motor update
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 15:27:54 -0400
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Hi All.

Just got an email from Anders Wistrom. I'm not going
to repost it without permission, so here's my summary
of his comments.

He claims the torque falls off as the 4th power of
separation between elements, so the expected torque
is very weak compared to the electrostatic force.
He suggested that the painted cans may be a problem,
but without further explaination. They've not
experimented with cylinders so he can't say for
certain that the effect would be noted with them.
He also said they did experiments with string, but
stripped off single fibres. You will note his wires
are VERY thin as mentioned in the paper, 125um I think.

At this point, I'll wait for further replications to
occur. If the effect is so small, I can see why he's
unable to make reasonable current measurements.
But I should think that I would have been able
to see SOMETHING given how sensitive the system
is to rotation. A farting flea will cause the cans
to start moving...

K.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr  9 12:27:56 2003
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Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 15:26:05 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Commendation for missing the target
In-Reply-To: <3E939D22.7050006 ghiocel.com>
References: <5.2.0.9.2.20030408170820.026a1dc8 pop.mindspring.com>
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Dan Ghiocel wrote:

>While I guess it sounds very impressive and probably "cool" the concrete 
>bomb idea, scientifically speaking,what would be the reasons for such a use?

This is explained in the articles I cited. A concrete bomb causes less 
damage and loss of life in the surroundings. It can easily destroy 
something like a truck, tank or a single building, which may be all the 
pilot wishes to destroy anyway. The larger radius of destruction caused by 
a bomb often serves no purpose.


>  Just a cheap show off to tell the world how great we are  we can afford 
> to "throw rocks to the enemy?"

That's silly. No pilot would risk his life for a PR stunt.

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr  9 12:36:22 2003
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Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 15:34:26 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Commendation for missing . . .
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That message missed its target. It was supposed to be on Vortex BL. I 
suppose Mr. Ghiocel reads both Vortex and Vortex BL.

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr  9 12:54:07 2003
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From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Commendation for missing . . .
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 16:10:10 -0400
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Collateral damage is being assessed.

The Pentagon denies any coalition forces posting in the region.

Ari Fleisher announced that the post was probably
an Iraqi message.

K.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:JedRothwell mindspring.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 3:34 PM
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Commendation for missing . . .


That message missed its target. It was supposed to be on Vortex BL. I 
suppose Mr. Ghiocel reads both Vortex and Vortex BL.

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr  9 13:27:28 2003
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Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 16:18:16 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Commendation for missing . . .
In-Reply-To: <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMAEPKDIAA.knagel gis.net>
References: <5.2.0.9.2.20030409153324.026b4828 pop.mindspring.com>
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Keith Nagel wrote:

>Collateral damage is being assessed.
>
>The Pentagon denies any coalition forces posting in the region.
>
>Ari Fleisher announced that the post was probably an Iraqi message.

And Iraq's minister of information Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf -- the man with 
the most thankless job in modern history -- denies that Internet messages 
exist. He is beginning to lose credibility. "I believe Sahaf exaggerates a 
little, but he needs to do that to reassure his people," said Hazem, a 
25-year-old security guard in Cairo. Abdul-Aziz, a Saudi writer who would 
not give his last name, said: "Sahaf is vulgar but he is a brave liar..." 
[CNN.com]

Meanwhile, President Bush subconsciously sized up Spain for invasion. See: 
http://www.theonion.com/onion3913/bush_sizes_up_spain.html

And now back to our regular programming.

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr  9 13:27:41 2003
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Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 16:25:31 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell mindspring.com>
Subject: LENR-CANR reaches 62,000 downloads
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On Monday and Tuesday, 918 and 1183 files were downloaded from LENR-CANR, 
which is more traffic than normal. This may be a delayed response to the 
New Scientist article. Perhaps people's attention is turning away from the 
war and back to their jobs. (It seems many people download papers during 
office hours, using academic or R&D ISPs.)

The Urchin utility was revised this week, and some data may have been lost. 
The totals do not add up correctly. This happened once or twice before. So 
I am not sure of the exact totals, but the difference is only ~200. Using 
the most conservative tally, just over 62,000 files have been downloaded 
since we shifted to Earthlink.com.

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr  9 14:45:11 2003
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Subject: RE: Wistrom electrostatic motor update
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Keith Nagel wrote:

> Just got an email from Anders Wistrom. I'm not going
> to repost it without permission, so here's my summary
> of his comments.

Thanks for the update, Keith.

> He claims the torque falls off as the 4th power of
> separation between elements, so the expected torque
> is very weak compared to the electrostatic force.
> He suggested that the painted cans may be a problem,
> but without further explaination. They've not
> experimented with cylinders so he can't say for
> certain that the effect would be noted with them.
> He also said they did experiments with string, but
> stripped off single fibres. You will note his wires
> are VERY thin as mentioned in the paper, 125um I think.

Actually, 127ìm is a fairly hefty piece of steel wire. Think guitar string or piano wire. It just sounds thin when denominated in microns.  I'm still waiting with bated breath to hear if they got more than 360 degrees of rotation and if their stainless steel spheres are a magnetic alloy.

Something that might settle a number of questions I have about this would simply be to insert sheets of plastic insulators between the spheres, virtually eliminating the possiblility of current flow without interrupting the electric fields.  Same with the Naudin motor.

> At this point, I'll wait for further replications to
> occur. If the effect is so small, I can see why he's
> unable to make reasonable current measurements.
> But I should think that I would have been able
> to see SOMETHING given how sensitive the system
> is to rotation. A farting flea will cause the cans
> to start moving...

I tried my setup with three cans hanging by wet thread again.  It still spins the cans, but one problem I forgot to mention is that the cans separate and spin on initial charging with my PVC pipe generator, but since this is a fairly leaky system, they bang back together and clatter around when I inevitably stop charging on account of running out of pipe length.  I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and use an electronic power supply to see if I get constant results with a continuous current flow.  The only thing is, I don't think 50kV is enough.  My PVC pipe gives 250kV easily, but it's kind of an impulse charge.  Also, as you point out, this just isn't the same configuration.

M.



_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr  9 15:05:35 2003
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Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 18:04:02 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell mindspring.com>
Subject: OFF TOPIC Cranky scientists in The Onion
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http://www.theonion.com/onion3913/mean_scientists.html

"[Scientists] refuse to allow even the faintest possibility that the 
Martians can't be detected because they're invisible. Or maybe they occupy 
a different dimension," Brooks continued. "There's a world of possibilities 
here. These scientists should depend less on cold, hard data and more on 
their imaginations. They'd probably be a lot less cranky."


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr  9 15:58:44 2003
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Reply-To: <knagel gis.net>
From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: "Vortex" <vortex-l eskimo.com>, <michael.foster@excite.com>
Subject: Foster electrostatic motor update
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 19:15:18 -0400
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Hi.

Mike Foster write:
/////////////////////
I tried my setup with three cans hanging by wet thread again.  It still
spins the cans, but one problem I forgot to mention is that the cans
separate and spin on initial charging with my PVC pipe generator, but since
this is a fairly leaky system, they bang back together and clatter around
when I inevitably stop charging on account of running out of pipe length.  I
guess I'll have to bite the bullet and use an electronic power supply to see
if I get constant results with a continuous current flow.  The only thing
is, I don't think 50kV is enough.  My PVC pipe gives 250kV easily, but it's
kind of an impulse charge.  Also, as you point out, this just isn't the same
configuration.
////////////////////////

Yes, I'd try a constant voltage power supply. I'm sure your
standard size soda cans would take 50KV just to get separation,
it takes at least 40KV before I see the short cans
spread. Bring the voltage up slowly from zero, and the
cans will float.

I also think that if I pulse my Foster Motor experiment,
as you describe, I'd see rotation.

I'd say a 75KV supply would be the right range for your CV supply. But
expect to be disappointed when the cans just float there without
rotation...maybe you can borrow a supply???

BTW, how long are your supporting threads?

K.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr 10 11:00:18 2003
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Thought someone here may have seen this,
 any knowledge about tis sunject would be welcome...


http://www.aw-el.com/weld.htm

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	Many welding rods and flux types use thorium which is radioactive.


On Fri, 11 Apr 2003, xplorer wrote:

> 
> Thought someone here may have seen this,
>  any knowledge about tis sunject would be welcome...
> 
> 
> http://www.aw-el.com/weld.htm
> 

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From: "xplorer" <xplorer indo.net.id>

> Thought someone here may have seen this,
>  any knowledge about tis sunject would be welcome... 
 
> http://www.aw-el.com/weld.htm


Just a guess, but the nature of the rods, which is stated are " from various sources" might be the key. Obviously they are not thoriated or you should get reading of around 300-600 uR/hr, but even if they are listed as tungsten with no thoriation, perhaps long term storage near thoriated rods is significant, but more likely, if the rods were processed by the manufacturer using tooling that had been used for producing thoriated rods, it could have been enough to get that low reading.

The article states"In every case, when the weld is placed by the tube's alpha window, the count rate rises from the background 9 to typically 23 uR/hr, and then starts to fall. It reaches a minimum after about 12 hours, and then starts to rise again, tending exponentially towards a limit of about 25 uR/hr. with a *half-life of about 150 hours*

Both the delay and the ~6 day half-life could be important if thorium is not the culprit (but I believe that it is) and some variation of CF is at work. 56Ni has that exact half-life and is a an interesting isotope cosmologically whose parent is usually said to be either Cu, Co or Zn but there is no general agreement and it seems to be more prevalent than it should be, but 56 Co  is the likely parent. About 93% of iron is stable 56Fe but there have been "fringe" reports that it is not as stable in actuality as it is reported to be in the literature. I have proposed an unlikely mechanism for accelerated beta decay of stable metals in the past (in Pd) based upon the appearance of a hydrino (and resulting charge disruption) in the lower orbitals, but its impossible to say it is 56Fe > 56Co > 56Ni  as 56Co is a 77 day species. Most likely it is thorium contamination on the rods.

I have gotten similar readings of 23 uR/hr with a similar instrument (slightly more sensitive) by placing the meter near an open portion of an exhaust duct from a natural gas fired heater. Natural gas, depending on its origin can have a moderate amount of entrained tritium (which is another story in itself, i.e. is it there because of some CF effect?).  I know that the report was not using H2 welding (H2 can be made form natural gas and could retain some tritium, but even industrial grade helium can contain some few ppm of 3H, if using heli-arc but again, the best guess would be tungsten rod had some thorium residue and the active isotopes are of the radon/ xenon decay products.
 
Jones

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	Dear Vo.,

	Looking to contact John Steck.

	If anyone knows of him, please ask him to drop me a line.

				Please and Thanks,

						JH

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See the photo:

  http://www.manwillneverfly.com/images/wright_flyer1.jpg

http://www.manwillneverfly.com/images/Header.jpg


(((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                            SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                            http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair
Seattle, WA  206-789-0775    unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr 10 20:32:28 2003
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Subject: Wright Bros' flyer was just a hoax after all!
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  The Man Will Never Fly Memorial Society
  http://www.manwillneverfly.com/


Our Mission
   Members of the Man Will Never Fly Society are not opposed to flight.
Birds do it, Bees do it, even educated fleas do it, as Cole Porter once
said.  But when you stop to think about it, do you actually believe that a
machine made of tons of metal will fly?  Small wonder that the editor of a
Dayton newspaper said, when informed of the mythical first flight in 1903.
"Man will never fly.  And if he does, he will never come from Dayton."
   The Society's members believe that balloons fly, but we do not believe
in flying machines.  Indeed, members of the Society have proposed a
variety of apparati for movement through the ozone.  One of our members is
even cultivating an enormous jumping bean which, when saddled and heated
by a laser, will propel a human for great distances.
   But let us hear no more of plane moving through the air, unless they
are hurled by carpenters.  Airports and airplanes are for the gullible.
Little do "plane" passengers realize that they are merely boarding
Greyhound buses with wings, and that while aboard these winged buses,
given the illusion of flight when cloud like scenery is moved past their
windows by stagehands in a very expensive theatrical performance.
   We ask you to gather under our banner and combat the myth that man can,
did, or will ever fly, except in his or her imagination.

(Golf caps and tie tacs available)


(((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                            SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                            http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair
Seattle, WA  206-789-0775    unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci


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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C3000F.3FE9C420
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This is the company that bought the Griggs cavitation patent.

On the site, I can find no mention of Griggs or the "real" history of =
the device

http://www.hydrodynamics.com/index.htm

Even the section on heating is very restrained:
http://www.hydrodynamics.com/heating.htm
------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C3000F.3FE9C420
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="Windows-1252"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"><BASE=20
href=3D"file://C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft =
Shared\Stationery\">
<STYLE>BODY {
	BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; MARGIN-TOP: 25px; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 25px; COLOR: #000000; BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial
}
</STYLE>

<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>
<DIV>This is the company that bought the Griggs cavitation patent.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>On the site, I can find no mention of Griggs or the "real" history =
of the=20
device</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><A=20
href=3D"http://www.hydrodynamics.com/index.htm">http://www.hydrodynamics.=
com/index.htm</A></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Even the section on heating is very restrained:</DIV>
<DIV><A=20
href=3D"http://www.hydrodynamics.com/heating.htm">http://www.hydrodynamic=
s.com/heating.htm</A></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C3000F.3FE9C420--

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William Beaty wrote:

(snip)
> Small wonder that the editor of a Dayton newspaper said, when
> informed of the mythical first flight in 1903.

"Man will never fly. And if he does, he will never come from Dayton."
(snip)

Things never really change.  I'll never forget the day after P&F made their cold fusion announcement.  There was an article in the Los Angeles Times quoting some twerp from Caltech who said, "Well, somebody might discover cold fusion, but it sure as hell won't be a chemist."  I knew then and there that the scientific establishment would never give CF a chance.

M.

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: WHAT'S NEW     Friday, 11 Apr 03
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 16:10:12 -0400
From: "What's New" <opa aps.org>
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To: "What's New" <whatsnew lists.apsmsgs.org>

WHAT'S NEW   Robert L. Park   Friday, 11 Apr 03   Washington, DC
               
1. PATRIOT ACT: LIBRARIANS DENOUNCE ASSAULT ON THE RIGHT TO READ. 
The USA PATRIOT Act, passed in haste after 9/11, gives the FBI
authority to examine all library circulation records.  The law
also forbids libraries from informing patrons that their reading
habits are being monitored.  Libraries across the country began
shredding circulation records and posting signs warning patrons
that "anything you read is now subject to secret scrutiny by
federal agents."  The American Library Association urged Congress
to repeal the provision in the Patriot Act dealing with library
records.  Contacted by the Vermont Library Association, Rep.
Bernie Sanders (I-VT) last week introduced the Freedom to Read
Protection Act (H.R. 1157).  So far, there are 70 cosponsors.  

2. 17 YEARS AGO IT WAS THE FBI'S "LIBRARY AWARENESS PROGRAM." 
Unfortunately, the goal of the program was not to improve the
literacy of agents.  WHAT'S NEW stumbled on the story first in
1986 after a trench-coated FBI agent asked a student working at
the University of Maryland Physics Library for the record of all
books checked out to a visiting foreign scientist.  The agent
resembled Inspector Clouseau more than Elliot Ness.  The student
called the science librarian.  Maryland is one of 38 states in
which library records are protected by law, and in the absence of
a court order, the librarian refused.  After the New York Times
picked up the story a year later, the FBI ran checks on 266
people who had been publicly critical to see if they were part of
a Soviet plot to discredit the program.  The full story of the
infamous Library Awareness Program is told by librarian Herb
Foerstel in "Surveillance in the Stacks"(Greenwood Press, 1991).

3. FUSION: SANDIA PULSED-POWER MACHINE PRODUCES FUSION   BRIEFLY.
At the APS meeting in Philadelphia last week, scientists from
Sandia National Laboratory announced that Sandia's Z machine had
created a hot dense plasma that caused deuterium fusion.  Fusion
was confirmed by a burst of neutrons from a BB-sized deuterium
capsule.  The question, as it always is in controlled fusion, is
whether the process can be scaled up.  In the Z machine a huge
pulse of electricity is used to generate X rays, creating a shock
wave in the target deuterium capsule, compressing the deuterium.
This must be done over and over in rapid succession while
extracting the energy.  Well, that's just an engineering problem.

4. ENVIRONMENT: HOUSE VOTES FOR DRILLING IN THE WILDLIFE REFUGE.
The Senate had already narrowly rejected the plan to open the
Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to drilling.  But the Senate will
likely reconsider.  This is a major energy initiative of the Bush
administration, granting big tax breaks to oil and gas companies. 
The House also soundly defeated a proposal to require a 5 percent
reduction in automotive fuel consumption that supporters said
would save more oil than the refuge can produce.

THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND and THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY.  
Opinions are the author's and are not necessarily shared by the
University or the American Physical Society, but they should be.
---
Archives of What's New can be found at http://www.aps.org/WN
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Various theoriticians have postulated about the reactions which may 
drive the Sun. Unfortunately, if that were the force which was 
driving it, there would be lots of neutrinos, which there aren't.

Is that an accurate statement?

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Apr 12 00:25:34 2003
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I think the Standard Model (SM) of particle physics is not good enough. It is totally failing on neutrinos. Without a good theory it may not possible to understand how nuclear reactions precisely occurs.

>From an engineering point of view, it is not possible to understand a proton is made of quarks which are supposed to have higher energy than the proton itself while a proton can be created (from scratch) only by kinetic energy of a collision, energy far less than make a quark.


thomas malloy wrote:
> 
> Various theoriticians have postulated about the reactions which may
> drive the Sun. Unfortunately, if that were the force which was
> driving it, there would be lots of neutrinos, which there aren't.
> 
> Is that an accurate statement?

Regards,

hamdi ucar

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Apr 12 02:34:03 2003
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Subject: Cramp device
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Here's an interesting video clip from a UK inventor:

  http://www.leonardcramp.x5g.com/graphics/tape4.avi
  http://www.leonardcramp.x5g.com/

Unfortunately we have to buy the $50 video to find out if the device in
this footage is actually FE, or is it some sort of weird EM motor (but
with batteries on the rotor for some reason?  and why the pull-start?)


Totally separate topic: isn't $1.00 a low price for large-area 20MHz PIN
photodiodes? http://sales.goldmine-elec.com/prodinfo.asp?prodid=7971
(sounds like a http://usa.hamamatsu.com/hcpdf/parts_S/S1223-01.pdf)  I see
articles about these where they're used as high-energy particle detectors.
BPW33 PN photodiodes in the same catalog, four for $1.00


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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Apr 12 08:48:12 2003
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> Unfortunately we have to buy the $50 video to find out if the device in
> this footage is actually FE, or is it some sort of weird EM motor (but
> with batteries on the rotor for some reason?  and why the pull-start?)

Bill,

If the 8 devices on the rotor (4 on each side) were caps, as opposed to batteries, then maybe this guy has actually converted electrostatic rotation (ala Winstrom) into a usable form...

,,, it looks like it turns at a few hundred RPM but with no extra torque to spare, so perhaps the pull start might be necessary because the device is just robust enough to self-sustain at that rotational velocity but not robust enough to overcome inertia... 

Jones

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Old article (from 2001)     But still!

  http://stilton.tn.utwente.nl/shrimp/shrimpoluminescence.htm
  http://stilton.tn.utwente.nl/shrimp/

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That was listed in GALLERY OF FLUID MOTION.  Worth exploring:

  http://ojps.aip.org/phf/gallery/archives.jsp



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Subject: Murray: Szpak: critique of many reports 3.20.98 4.13.3
   Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 18:08:04 -0700
   From: Rich Murray <rmforall earthlink.net>

March 20, 1998

Dear all,

I am raising many questions about nine papers in Physics Letters A and
J. Electroanalytical Chemistry, one in Fusion Technology, Jan., 1998, 
and a long summary in J. New Energy, fall, 1996, about Pd/D
codeposition, with claims of excess heat, radiation, and tritium
production, by Stanislaw Szpak [szpak nosc.mil, 619-553-9952, PhD, U.
Penn., 1961] and Pamela A. Mosier-Boss [bossp nosc.mil, 919-553-1603,
PhD, Mich. St. U., 1961], and often Roger D. Boss [619-553-1606, 1608,
PhD, Mich. St. U, 1961] and Jerry J. Smith [PhD, U. Calif. Berkeley,
1965, Div. Materials Sciences, U.S. Dept. of Energy, Wash., D.C. 20585],
and others.  Szpak and PAM-B and RDB are at Naval Command, Control and
Ocean Surveillance Center, RDT&E Div., San Diego, Calif. 92152-5000, the
NRaD Old Town campus for SPAWARSYSCEN or SSC [This is my initition into
Petagonial initialization.]

I was excited two weeks ago by two small, fuzzy infrared photos of their
Pd cathode in Mitchell Swartz's Cold Fusion Times, 6(1), Winter, 1998,
cover page on his web site
[http://world.std.com/~mica/cfttime.html#cft61], from their report,
"Thermal and nuclear events associated with Pd and D codepostion," at
the 32nd Intersociety Energy Conversion Engineering Conf. [IECEC],
Honolulu, HI, July 27-Aug. 1, 1997.  I wrote PAM-B for the report, and
she sent me two papers from Physics Letters A, 1966, 210, 382-390,
submitted Nov. 14, 1994, "On the behavior of the cathodically polarized
Pd/D system: search for emanating radiation," and 221, 141-3, submitted
May, 1996, "On the behavior of the cathodically polarized Pd/D system: a
response to Vigier's comments".  The second brief paper has the two
photos that are in Cold Fusion Times, along with a third, and with a
photo of a "graphical representation of temperature distribution" [What
is the temperature scale?], all four photos dated ll/03/94 INFRAMETRICS.
"With further charging, the electrode temperature (measured by a
thermocouple) exceeds that of the electrolyte by a few degrees. However,
when viewed with an infrared camera, the chaotic
appearance/disappearance of hot spots is observed, followed by merging
in larger islands that often exhibit oscillations in size...The most
extreme temperature rise, exceeding the melting point of Pd, was
observed once.  In this case, molten Pd was deposited on the wall of the
electrolytic cell in the form of a thin film, Fig. 1b."  [Was this in
the same cell as the infrared photos?  How much Pd was melted?  How was
molten Pd transferred to the cell walls?  The reference, # 7, was to
unpublished 1993 data-- could this be made available?]

[Description of cell and its operation, size of cathode, horizontal or
vertical alignment, number of infrared photos taken, photos per minute, 
shutter speed,  any calibration with known heat sources, amount of
infrared energy, size of tiny hot spots, any physical traces left at
exact location of hot spots, frequency and replicability of hot spots by
Szpak , any independent replications, why is edge of cathode bright, are
the vertical lines in the hot spot pattern due to the proximity of an
anode wire array, are similar hot spots seen in various electrolytes?]

The longer, older paper, submitted Nov. 14, 1994, just after the
infrared photos were made, has no photos, and describes three cell
designs, with runs of 1 to 5 weeks, with various measurements of the
soft X-ray range 7 to 3000 kev.  Fig. 4 (bottom) shows that in the range
7-40 kev, after 13 days, count-rate/sec rose from a steady base of ~8.00
to ~8.15 by day ~36.  Conclusions: "...X-rays with a broad energy
distribution and with an occasional emergence of recognizable
peaks...low intensity...sporadic and of limited duration..."  

[Success frequency by Szpak, independent replications, evaluation by
outside experts?]

On page 386, a correlation is claimed for a 4% rise in count rate from
~6.26 to ~6.42 count-rate/sec with the Pd/D codeposition for ~50 hours,
"...excess enthalpy production, as inferred from the higher temperature
of the working electrode than that of the electrolyte phase."  Page 388,
"The results presented here represent a condensation of data collected
over the course of two years and include experiments run under a variety
of electrochemical conditions."

Color digital CCD cameras are available for $ 100.  With glass, plastic,
and special mineral lenses, pinhole lenses, or focusing mirrors, they
can be readily adapted to record IR, visible colors, UV, and soft
X-rays, real-time, and able to accumlate low intensity signals, as
demonstrated by their prolific use by amateur astronomers in
computerized telescopes with a great variety of image-processing
software.  A useful black/white image can be stored in 10 Kbytes.  A
megabyte is 100 images, a gigabyte is 100,000 images.  A 200 MHz Pentium
computer with 3.2 GB hard drive can be bought new for $ 1000, including
the monitor.  Thus, it is easy to monitor a cathode continuously for
months in multiple bands, and to increase the speed of recording as soon
as a hot spot appears, while triggering other radiation detectors and a
microphone array for sound signals.  Hot spots can be located precisely,
and their physical and chemical properties studied after the event.  If
the electrolyte is a gell, then reaction products can be kept at the hot
spot-- a universal method for a century and a half in biology
experiments.  The CCD itself can be plated with metals and films for
recording temperature, radiation, and chemical products, and used as a
thin film cathode, recording data with 10 micron resolution.  Hot spots
too small and too infrequent to heat the electrolyte can still be
studied in convincing detail.  Science can indeed be done on poorly
understood, rare, feeble, tiny, subtle, erratic, and irreproducible
events.  But the strategy utilized must match the problem as it is, or
nothing is achievable.  Only a carefully designed ghostcatcher catches
ghosts.

A "Preliminary note," "On the behavior of Pd deposited in the presence
of evolving deuterium," JEC, (1991), 255-260, submitted Nov., 1990,
claims excess heat, tritium, and radiation.  "...film...areas exposed to
the radiative flux and those partially blocked by the Ni screen
electrode...What appears to be a double or triple exposure is most
likely due to slight displacement of the film...12 h of
codeposition...No radiation was observed in the control experiment."
[Type of photographic film, thickness of light-tight and of
solution-impermeable envelopes, radiation absorption of electrolyte, any
control radiation sources used, size of film and of cathode, how
frequent are successful photos, replication by Szpak and independent
labs?]

"...analysis of electrolytes from eight different runs showed the 3He
concentration within the range 230-270 disintegations per min per cm3,
compared to 30 in fresh electrolyte...after 10 to 16 h of
electrolysis...The control experiments [using light water] produced no
tritium."  [replication by Szpak and any independent labs?]

"Fig. 4. Excess enthalpy production", shows an idealized smooth linear
curve, in what seems to be units of 10exp4 J, so that 1.00 input causes
~.25 excess.   "In the course of codeposition...temperature of the
working electrode, T1 was always greater by 2-4 degrees C than that
measured in the electrolyte, T2, Fig. 3...steep temperature rise of the
cathode...upon termination of flow of the cell current. Crude energy
balance determinations were made periodically during each run: an excess
enthalpy production between 10 and 40% was observed.  Control
experiments involving codeposition from light water...temperatures were
equal and no temperature rise was noted upon termination of the current
flow...more accurate estimate...Fig. 4...water bath whose temperature
was kept equal, within 0.3 K, to that of the cell interior...The
production of excess enthalpy required 0.25 X 10exp4 J and occurred
after ca. 20 min of charging."  [Details of calorimetry, replication by
Szpak and independent labs?]

"Deuterium uptake during Pd-D codeposition," JEC, 379 (1994), 121-7,
submitted Sept., 1993, uses "galvanostatic pertubation techniques" to
claim on page 125 that D/Pd ratios as high as 1.02 within 14 seconds are
achieved.  [A remarkable assertion-- any independent measures of the
D/Pd ratio?  In many of his papers, with the rubrics, "cyclic
voltammetry" and "voltammograms," Szpak seems to be claiming that the
active region is a rather thin, complex layer-- this reminds me of
Miley's incredible claims for CETI thin films-- however, Szpak nowhere
mentions searching for transmutation byproducts.]

"On the behavior of the Pd/D system: evidence for tritium production,"
Fusion Technology, (Jan., 1998), 33, 38-51, submitted Nov, 1996, in Fig.
3 shows a nonsignificant rise in tritium concentration in a 2-week run,
from ~ 19 to ~24, while Fig. 4 shows a significant rise from the
baseline of ~18 disintegrations per minute per ml in the electrolyte, to
a peak of 26, with error +- 1.2, in about 3 weeks.  Dieter Britz
commented in his cold fusion bibliography:
http://kemi.aau.dk/~db/fusion/Blabla.html

"Szpak et al tried hard to find tritium. They know that when you
electrolyse D2O containing some tritium (which it always does), you have
tritium enrichment, governed by the socalled separation factor. Using
reasonable values for this, their results were more or less consistent
with such enrichment, although there were some tantalising
(statistically insignificant) indications of tritium production. A
valiant null, you might say, quality work."

[Was this paper rejected by J. Electroanalyical Chemistry?]

Their article in J. New Energy, fall, 1996, pages 54-67, presents the
same data as their other recent papers, and gives a table for Excess
Enthalpy on page 67, discussed on page 57, which again shows a linear
line, indicating ~2800 J excess for 10000 J input, about 28 %, for the
"polarized Pd/D system".

Are Szpak and any other labs continuing to explore Pd/D codeposition?  I
didn't see any listings for ICCF-7.

Rich Murray    Room For All  rmforall att.net
1943  Otowi Road  Santa Fe, NM 87505  505-986-9103
************************************************************************

http://www.lenr-canr.org/  large library of cold fusion papers

http://www.lenr-canr.org/NewScientist.htm

The 29 March 2003 issue of the New Scientist magazine features an
article about cold fusion. See:
http://www.newscientist.com/inprint/ipcontents.jsp

The article is REASONABLE DOUBT. The synopsis: "No sooner had cold
fusion surfaced than it was written off, and the idea of extracting
virtually limitless free energy from water became taboo. So how
come a small band of experienced researchers working for the US Navy
just can't let it drop? Bennett Daviss takes up their strange story"

The LENR-CANR.org library includes several papers by U.S. Navy
researchers. Some are listed below. Please look up the authors in the
Library to see a complete listing, and to review the abstracts before
downloading.

Chubb, S. Theoretical Framework for Anomalous Heat and 4He in Transition
Metal Systems.

Chubb, T. Deuteron Fluxing and the Ion Band State Theory

Miles, M. Calorimetric Principles and Problems in Pd-D2O Electrolysis,
Anomalous Effects in Deuterated Systems, Final Report
Note: several other papers by Miles are available

Mosier-Boss, P. A. Thermal and Nuclear Aspects of the Pd/D2O System, Vol
1 (Long: 3 MB), Vol 2.

>From the Introduction to Vol. 1: "As I write this Foreword, California
is experiencing rolling blackouts due to power shortages. Conventional
engineering, planned ahead, could have prevented these
blackouts, but it has been politically expedient to ignore the
inevitable. We do not know if Cold Fusion will be the answer to future
energy needs, but we do know the existence of Cold Fusion phenomenon
through repeated observations by scientists throughout the world. It is
time that this phenomenon be investigated so that we can reap whatever
benefits accrue from additional scientific understanding. It is time
for government funding organizations to invest in this research."

Dr. Frank E. Gordon
Head, Navigation and Applied Sciences Department
Space and Naval Warfare Systems Center, San Diego

Nagel, D. Fusion Physics and Philosophy. 

Szpak, S. Anomalous Behavior of the Pd/D System. Please note, this is a
large file: 2.5 MB. It contains several papers which are also listed in
the Library separately. To save bandwidth, you may wish to
download either this paper or some of individual papers only, but not
both. 
************************************************************************

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From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com
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Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 07:20:41 EDT
Subject: message for Jed
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
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I heard a speech by rep John Carrie of Calf.  He is much is favor of new 
energy technology.  He stated that "we must invent our way out of the energy 
crisis"

Perhaps Jed should write to him.

Frank Znidarsic

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Apr 13 10:59:41 2003
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Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 11:42:33 -0600
From: Rich Murray <rmforall att.net>
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Subject: diverse evidence for mirror matter-- effects in "cold fusion" nomalies?: 
 Robert Foot & Saibal Mitra: Murray 4.13.3 rmforall
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diverse evidence for mirror matter: effects in "cold fusion" anomalies?:
Robert Foot & Saibal Mitra: Murray 4.13.3 rmforall

April 13 2003   A wide range of evidence already suggests the existence
of "mirror matter", which might be easily found and isolated on the
surface of the Earth.  Its effects may include unexpected variations in
the mass, temperature, heat flow, and radiations in experiments-- just
the kind of seemingly random, rare, inexplicable, irreproducible events
that are searched for in the many different types of Low Energy Nuclear
Reaction and Chemically Assisted Nuclear Reaction experiments since
1989.

http://www.lenr-canr.org/  large library of cold fusion papers

http://www.lenr-canr.org/NewScientist.htm
The 29 March 2003 issue of the New Scientist magazine features an
article about cold fusion. See:
http://www.newscientist.com/inprint/ipcontents.jsp

http://www.chem.au.dk/~db/fusion/ 
Dieter Britz's COLD NUCLEAR FUSION BIBLIOGRAPHY
*******

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2463143.stm

http://www.geocities.com/smitrasmitra/mirror.html

http://www.geocities.com/mirrorplanets/
[Extract]
Falling ice blocks -- what is the cause/causes? 
A mirror matter comet striking the Earth would cause rapid cooling of
the atmosphere. This is because mirror matter would absorb heat from the 
surrounding ordinary atmospheric atoms (this happens because of the 
photon-mirror photon interaction). This heat would be radiated away as 
mirror photons, thereby rapidly cooling the atmosphere. It might lead to
the  formation of clouds and maybe even ice blocks... (see the above
link).  Maybe it could also explain the observations suggesting the
frequent impact of small comets which was suggested by Stephen Heyer. 

Dr Robert Foot
University of Melbourne, Department of Physics
Telephone: 03 83445435 Mobile: 0421 477 445
E-mail: foot physics.unimelb.edu.au 

Dr Ray Volkas
University of Melbourne, Department of Physics
Telephone: 03 8344 5464
Email: raymondv unimelb.edu.au

Saibal Mitra <smitra zonnet.nl>
*******

http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0301229
Astrophysics, abstract
astro-ph/0301229

From: Robert Foot <foot physics.unimelb.edu.au>
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 21:00:51 GMT   (10kb)

http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0301229
Detecting dark matter using centrifuging techniques

Authors: S. Mitra, R. Foot
Comments: About 9 pages
Subj-class: Astrophysics; Space Physics
Journal-ref: Phys.Lett. B558 (2003) 9-14

A new and inexpensive technique for detecting self interacting dark
matter in the form of small grains in bulk matter is proposed. Depending
on the interactions with ordinary matter, dark matter grains in bulk
matter may be isolated by using a centrifuge and using ordinary matter
as a filter. The case of mirror matter interacting with ordinary matter
via photon-mirror photon kinetic mixing provides a concrete example of
this type of dark matter candidate. 

Full-text: PostScript, PDF, or Other formats

References and citations for this submission:
SLAC-SPIRES HEP (refers to , cited by, arXiv reformatted);
CiteBase (autonomous citation navigation and analysis)
*******

http://arxiv.org/abs/hep-ph/0204256
High Energy Physics - Phenomenology, abstract
hep-ph/0204256

From: Robert Foot <foot physics.unimelb.edu.au>
Date (v1): Mon, 22 Apr 2002 11:15:10 GMT   (13kb)
Date (revised v2): Tue, 30 Jul 2002 01:33:57 GMT   (13kb)

Ordinary atom-mirror atom bound states: A new window on the mirror world

Authors: R. Foot, S. Mitra
Comments: about 8 pages, couple of changes
Journal-ref: Phys.Rev. D66 (2002) 061301

Mirror symmetry is a plausible candidate for a fundamental symmetry of
particle interactions which can be exactly conserved if a set of mirror
particles exist. The properties of the mirror particles seem to provide
an excellent candidate to explain the inferred dark matter of the
Universe and might also be responsible for a variety of other puzzles in
particle physics, astrophysics, meteoritics  and planetary science. One
such puzzle -- the orthopositronium lifetime problem -- can be explained
if there is a small kinetic mixing of ordinary and mirror photons. We
show that this kinetic mixing implies the existence of ordinary atom -
mirror atom bound states with interesting terrestrial and astrophysical
implications. We suggest that sensitive mass spectroscopic studies of
ordinary samples containing heavy elements such as lead might reveal the
presence of these bound states, as they would appear as anomalously
heavy elements. In addition to the effects of single mirror atoms,
collective effects from embedded fragments of mirror matter (such as
mirror iron microparticles) are also possible. We speculate that such
mirror matter fragments might explain a mysterious UV photon burst
observed coming from a laser irradiated lead target in a recent
experiment. 

Full-text: PostScript, PDF, or Other formats

References and citations for this submission:
SLAC-SPIRES HEP (refers to , cited by, arXiv reformatted);
CiteBase (autonomous citation navigation and analysis)  
*******

http://www.arxiv.org/abs/hep-ph/0107132
High Energy Physics - Phenomenology, abstract
hep-ph/0107132

From: Robert Foot <foot physics.unimelb.edu.au>
Date (v1): Thu, 12 Jul 2001 00:55:17 GMT   (15kb)
Date (revised v2): Mon, 16 Jul 2001 07:11:11 GMT   (15kb)

The mirror world interpretation of the 1908 Tunguska event and other
more recent events

Author: R. Foot
Comments: 11 pages, Minor changes
Journal-ref: Acta Phys.Polon. B32 (2001) 3133

Mirror matter is predicted to exist if parity (i.e. left-right symmetry)
is a symmetry of nature. Remarkably mirror matter is capable of simply
explaining a large number of contemporary puzzles in astrophysics and
particle physics including: Explanation of the MACHO gravitational
microlensing events, the existence of close-in extrasolar gas giant
planets, apparently `isolated' planets, the solar, atmospheric and LSND
neutrino anomalies, the orthopositronium lifetime anomaly and perhaps
even gamma ray bursts. One fascinating possibility is that our solar
system contains small mirror matter space bodies (asteroid or comet
sized objects), which are too small to be revealed from their
gravitational effects but nevertheless have explosive implications when
they collide with the Earth. We examine the possibility that the 1908
Tunguska explosion in Siberia was the result of the collision of a
mirror matter space body with the Earth. We point out that if the
catastrophic event and many other similar smaller events are
manifestations of the mirror world then these impact sites should be a
good place to start digging for mirror matter. Mirror matter could
potentially be extracted and purified using a centrifuge and have many
useful industrial applications. 
*******

From: Robert Foot (foot physics.unimelb.EDU.AU)
Subject: (astro-ph): Have mirror stars been observed? 
Newsgroups: umich.physics.hep-ph
Date: 1999/02/08 
Title: Have mirror stars been observed?
Author(s): R. Foot

Observations by the MACHO collaboration suggest that a significant
proportion of the galactic halo dark matter is in the form of compact
objects with typical masses $M\sim 0.5M_{\odot}$. One of the current
mysteries is the nature and origin of these objects. We suggest that
these objects are stars composed of mirror matter. This interpretation
provides a plausible explanation for the inferred masses and abundance
of the MACHO events. We also comment on the possibility of inferring the
existence of mirror supernova's by detecting the neutrino burst in
existing underground detectors such as SuperKamiokande.

Paper: astro-ph/9902065
Dated: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 06:45:25 GMT   (6kb)
Comments: about 5 pages long
Report-no: UM-P-99/04
URL: http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/astro-ph/9902065

http://www.arXiv.org/abs/hep-ph/0207175  23 pages  34 references
Does mirror matter exist? 7.14.2 Robert Foot
One of the most fascinating ideas coming from particle physics is the
concept of mirror matter. Mirror matter is a new form of matter which is
predicted to exist if mirror symmetry is respected by  nature. At the
preset time evidence that mirror matter actually exists is in abundance,
coming from a range of observations and experiments in astronomy,
particle physics, meteoritics and planetary science.
*******

http://pcicarus7.ethz.ch/Positron/archive.html  4 pages
Shadow Worlds   Marcus Chown 6.17.0 New Scientist
************************************************************************

Rich Murray, MA    Room For All    rmforall att.net
1943 Otowi Road, Santa Fe, New Mexico 87505 USA  505-986-9103

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/message/984
aspartame review: methanol, formaldehyde, formic acid toxicity: 
Murray 4.13.3 rmforall

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/messages
for 989 posts in a public searchable archive
************************************************************************

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 14 07:22:06 2003
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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell mindspring.com>
Subject: OFF TOPIC Hong Kong doctor pessimistic about SARS
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Most authoritative statements about SARS I have read in recent weeks have 
been relatively upbeat. This may be the first major highly contagious 
disease in history that will be controlled and eliminated without a serious 
epidemic. Relatively minor outbreaks such as Legionnaires disease have been 
contained, but they were not very contagious. However, here is a 
pessimistic statement by an experienced doctor who is treating the disease:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/13/international/asia/13HONG.html

QUOTE:

Having seen the infectiousness of the disease firsthand, Dr. Wu is 
convinced that it will spread worldwide. When a diplomat in Hong Kong sent 
him an e-mail message asking whether he should send his family home to 
Europe, Dr. Wu wrote back that such an effort would be futile.

"There will be a pandemic following the epidemic," Dr. Wu predicted. "So 
there is nowhere to hide."


I have not heard that any expert predicts a catastrophe like the 1918 
influenza pandemic.

It is interesting to see the treatment of this by the press, which has been 
relatively calm and objective. It is quite different from the treatment of 
CF. I suppose that is because there are no vested interests in favor of 
pneumonia, whereas the latest energy bill passed by the House on Friday 
proves that many politically powerful people favor waste, pollution, 
obsolete technology and importing 8.6 million barrels of oil per day.

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 14 07:45:20 2003
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Subject: OFF TOPIC Mainstream view of SARS
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Here are the views of a mainstream, relatively upbeat expert:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12484-2003Apr12.html

The virus DNA was sequenced by 4:00 a.m. Saturday in British Columbia, and 
published on the Internet:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20153-2003Apr14.html

Such rapid dissemination of vital scientific information is unprecedented. 
I hope this contributes to the burgeoning changes in science publishing and 
peer review.

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 15 00:33:53 2003
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Subject: Neutrinos from the Sun
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This URL talks about a neutrino detector that is supposed to detect 
neutrinos that might be produced by a nuclear reaction between C N 
and H, which might be powering the sun. I was right, they aren't sure 
about the reaction that is occuring. It would seem to me that there 
should be energitic emmissions produced by the reaction whose 
frequency would be characteristic of a particular reaction.

http://info.nature.com/cgi-bin24/DM/y/ea10CgvIR0C30zw0AF


The second URL 
http://info.nature.com/cgi-bin24/DM/y/ea10CgvIR0C30z60AA talks about 
a detector buried in the antarctic ice which is supposed to detect 
neutrinos produced by distant stars and black holes. If these 
particles can pass through the earth, how do they know they don't 
come from the Sun?

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thomas malloy wrote:
> 
> Theion/info.nature.com/cgi-bin24/DM/y/ea10CgvIR0C30z60AA talks about
> a detector buried in the antarctic ice which is supposed to detect
> neutrinos produced by distant stars and black holes. If these
> particles can pass through the earth, how do they know they don't
> come from the Sun?

Because, photons emitted from neutrinos collisions are directional and follow neutrino path, ones from the sun direction would be excluded in a analysis.

hamdi ucar

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 15 09:27:17 2003
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Yesterday there were 1,907 papers downloaded at LENR-CANR.org, a new 
record. Grand total papers downloaded is just under 68,000. The exact 
number cannot be determined because the Urchin utility has been 
malfunctioning lately. The error margin is small.

I think this may be the delayed response to the New Scientist article, 
judging by the papers readers have chosen lately.

All this activity has not made any measurable difference in the real world 
that I can detect, but Ed Storms and others tell me there is more friendly 
interest in CF than there has been in some time. Perhaps LENR-CANR has 
contributed to that.

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 15 09:32:33 2003
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Here is an article about the latest research by Shuji Nakamura, "Japan's 
Edison." He wrote a very bitter book about his experiences in Japan, and he 
is now a prof at UCSB.

http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/talbot0503.asp

- Jed


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The frantic R&D described in this article is what we need if CF is ever to 
succeed. As the grad student in the story put it, we need the effect of 
10,000 monkeys pounding on 10,000 typewriters. Nakamura himself agrees, 
even though he himself is prime example of a lone genius working in 
isolation and opposition to the crowd. So far, the only time anything like 
that happened in CF was the more literal case, when 10,000 skeptics sent 
messages to Internet forums. That did not help.

- Jed


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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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The $64 question. Does Naudin get a prize?

http://jlnlabs.online.fr/bingofuel/html/bfr5hpgen.htm
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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 15 12:57:34 2003
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Secrecy News excerpt:

SADDAM AND THE CIA

One of many lacunae in the history of cold war intelligence and
of Iraq in particular is the role of the Central Intelligence
Agency in advancing the career of one Saddam Hussein.

"While many have thought that Saddam first became involved with
U.S. intelligence agencies at the start of the September 1980
Iran-Iraq war, his first contacts with U.S. officials date back
to 1959, when he was part of a CIA-authorized six-man squad
tasked with assassinating then Iraqi Prime Minister Gen. Abd al-
Karim Qasim," reports Richard Sale of United Press
International.  "U.S. intelligence services ... used him as
their instrument for more than 40 years."

See "Saddam key in early CIA plot," April 10:

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID030410-070214-6557r

The CIA would not comment on the matter.


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: BINGO
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Goodness! That is up-to-date information, isn't it? You can't ask for more 
than a video of an experiment run today.

Can someone explain a little more about this "Bingo" fuel gadget? I gather 
it is claimed to be over-unity, and this is the same as "Aquafuel" and 
several other similar claims. See:

http://jlnlabs.online.fr/bingofuel/html/bfr10.htm

There is not much detail here.

It is not clear to me why COH2 is better than plain H2 gas. I suppose it 
can be used more easily with conventional, unmodified internal combustion 
engines. Perhaps COH2 is the only thing they can produce with this arc, but 
H2 would be better for things like fuel cells.

Based on a quick reading of this web page, I do not think Naudin can make 
this arrangement self sustain, even if the excess power from the gas 
generator is as claimed, because small electric generators are very 
inefficient. That is a shame! Still this is impressive.

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 15 14:20:01 2003
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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 17:30:07 -0400
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JLN write:
"Thus, this biomass gasification process has an overunity efficiency of
about 125% to 150%. However, when the entire energetics of the system are
accounted for, including the ultraviolet light radiation, heat loss, etc.,
estimates of 200% to 400% are reasonable. "

What about the consumption of the
carbon rod? Seems like with a genset Jean should be
able to come up with an actual efficiency measurement
pretty easily, although the input power to
the arc might prove difficult. This is an
open loop system as you end up with a
waste product, so I don't see any theoretical
reason why with efficient genset/generator one
couldn't make it self run. How about a
measurement of carbon rod consumption to
output power, Jean? Ahhh, but I'm missing
the point huh? (grin).

K.



-----Original Message-----
From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:JedRothwell mindspring.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 4:05 PM
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
Subject: Re: BINGO


Goodness! That is up-to-date information, isn't it? You can't ask for more
than a video of an experiment run today.

Can someone explain a little more about this "Bingo" fuel gadget? I gather
it is claimed to be over-unity, and this is the same as "Aquafuel" and
several other similar claims. See:

http://jlnlabs.online.fr/bingofuel/html/bfr10.htm

There is not much detail here.

It is not clear to me why COH2 is better than plain H2 gas. I suppose it
can be used more easily with conventional, unmodified internal combustion
engines. Perhaps COH2 is the only thing they can produce with this arc, but
H2 would be better for things like fuel cells.

Based on a quick reading of this web page, I do not think Naudin can make
this arrangement self sustain, even if the excess power from the gas
generator is as claimed, because small electric generators are very
inefficient. That is a shame! Still this is impressive.

- Jed



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 15 14:21:16 2003
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The first thing to notice about Naudin's "Bingo" fuel process is that it's based on a 1898 patent.  No doubt the inventor was looking for another way to produce what was at that time a very common lighting gas, usually produced by various heat and chemical reaction processes involving coal or coke and water.  Just search Google for "coal gas" and "water gas" and you'll see what I mean.  Apparently, before 1940 this gas was much more common than natural gas.  Just remember this gas is highly poisonous as well.  Thousands of people died from carbon monoxide poisoning during the late 19th and early 20th century on account of the use of this very gas for lighting in the home.

Naudin claims overunity for this process.  I think I'll remain a little sceptical about that claim, mainly because he also claims this to be a "biomass" fuel process.  Since when are carbon rods biomass?  Yes, it's true that they could be manufactured from biomass, but the vast majoritiy of carbon products are made from coal or petroleum.  It's a good thing, too.  Remember that the expansion of the Roman empire was mostly about gathering wood for fuel and charcoal for reducing ore to iron.  They pretty much deforested Europe and Britain in the process.

However, having said all that, it's probably true that this process is more efficient than simple electrolysis for producing a flammable fuel for such things as internal combustion engines.  You also have to hand it to Naudin for being such a relentless experimenter.  I admire the way he just goes ahead and does it.

M.

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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 15 14:41:26 2003
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Subject: RE: BINGO
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Keith Nagel wrote:

>What about the consumption of the carbon rod? Seems like with a genset 
>Jean should be able to come up with an actual efficiency measurement 
>pretty easily . . .

I do not think so. The electric power output can be measured with great 
precision, but it is difficult to know how much waste heat the generator is 
producing. In other words, it is difficult to measure Carnot efficiency. If 
the thing is putting out the maximum 5 KW of power, which I doubt, it is 
producing ~33 KW of waste heat, which is too much to measure accurately.

Actually, I expect the only reasonable way to estimate Carnot efficiency is 
to burn a measured amount ordinary gasoline and measure the output power. 
Then you have to assume Aquafuel has the same Carnot efficiency as 
gasoline, which is probably not a safe assumption but it would be a 
starting point, anyway. I described a similar test here on 26 Jan 2000, 
with a new 3 KW generator:


I topped the four gallon tank off just after 10:00 last night, and attached 
two 1500 watt space heaters to it, a full 3000 watt load. It ran until 
around 5:30 this morning, ~7.2 hours.

Gasoline yields 43.8 MJ/kg according to an Internet source; estimates range 
from 42 to 44 MJ.

Four gallons of gasoline weighs 12 kg, yielding 526 MJ.

The motor generates 6 HP of torque, which equals 4.5 kW. The generator 
outputs 3 kW, or exactly two-thirds of the motor power -- a suspiciously 
round number.

7.2 hours of operation at 3 kW = 21.6 kWh = 78 MJ.

So, 15% of the original thermal energy is delivered as electricity. 
Actually, that isn't bad for a small ICE.


- Jed


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From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Keith Nagel <knagel gis.net>, William Beaty <billb@eskimo.com>
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	Dear Keith and Vo.,

	Is there any report of the level of current and voltage required
and the amount of gas or gases this method produces?

	I went to the site but found only:

	"......The BingoFuel Reactor is filled with tap water and uses a
		low AC voltage ( about 30V ~ )  ......" 


						Thanks,

						JH

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 15 15:37:39 2003
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Keith Nagel wrote:

> What about the consumption of the
> carbon rod? Seems like with a genset Jean should be
> able to come up with an actual efficiency measurement
> pretty easily, although the input power to
> the arc might prove difficult. This is an
> open loop system as you end up with a
> waste product, so I don't see any theoretical
> reason why with efficient genset/generator one
> couldn't make it self run. How about a
> measurement of carbon rod consumption to
> output power, Jean? Ahhh, but I'm missing
> the point huh? (grin).

Well, sorta and sorta not.  This process is probably overunity for electrical input, but you can more or less look at the arc as a catalyst.  The main energy source here is the oxidation of the carbon.  This is just a more convenient method of making "water gas" on a small scale.  One of the old 19th century processes for making this gas involved passing steam over red hot carbon.  Once the process was started, the heat of the reaction could be used both to boil the water and keep the carbon hot.

M.



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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 15 15:42:49 2003
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For someone who doesn't think it's possible,
you did a pretty good job of describing how to
do it...

I would only add, that you start with a known
feed rate of gas, and calculate the energy
released by burning that much COH2. Then
drive the generator, and measure actual
output. That's your calibration point.
You could load the genset with different resistive
loads and see how it changes.

15% on gasoline is pretty poor, a self runner
with your genset would have to be pretty
overefficient (is that the right word?).
The gasoline measurement would be interesting
to compare to the COH2 measurement, I wonder
if it's better or worse? Murphy rears his
ugly head.

K.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:JedRothwell mindspring.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 5:39 PM
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
Subject: RE: BINGO


Keith Nagel wrote:

>What about the consumption of the carbon rod? Seems like with a genset
>Jean should be able to come up with an actual efficiency measurement
>pretty easily . . .

I do not think so. The electric power output can be measured with great
precision, but it is difficult to know how much waste heat the generator is
producing. In other words, it is difficult to measure Carnot efficiency. If
the thing is putting out the maximum 5 KW of power, which I doubt, it is
producing ~33 KW of waste heat, which is too much to measure accurately.

Actually, I expect the only reasonable way to estimate Carnot efficiency is
to burn a measured amount ordinary gasoline and measure the output power.
Then you have to assume Aquafuel has the same Carnot efficiency as
gasoline, which is probably not a safe assumption but it would be a
starting point, anyway. I described a similar test here on 26 Jan 2000,
with a new 3 KW generator:


I topped the four gallon tank off just after 10:00 last night, and attached
two 1500 watt space heaters to it, a full 3000 watt load. It ran until
around 5:30 this morning, ~7.2 hours.

Gasoline yields 43.8 MJ/kg according to an Internet source; estimates range
from 42 to 44 MJ.

Four gallons of gasoline weighs 12 kg, yielding 526 MJ.

The motor generates 6 HP of torque, which equals 4.5 kW. The generator
outputs 3 kW, or exactly two-thirds of the motor power -- a suspiciously
round number.

7.2 hours of operation at 3 kW = 21.6 kWh = 78 MJ.

So, 15% of the original thermal energy is delivered as electricity.
Actually, that isn't bad for a small ICE.


- Jed



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 15 17:21:03 2003
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This title in Infinite Energy Magazine Issue 44-p 39 
"Arc-liberated Chemical Energy Exceeds Electrical Input Energy" by Peter Graneau, et al. pretty much says it all, doesn't it? 
The next article in this issue is also interesting.. 

Jones

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 16 07:47:58 2003
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Regarding the test I described to measure the Carnot efficiency, Keith 
Nagel wrote:

>For someone who doesn't think it's possible, you did a pretty good job of 
>describing how to do it...

That depends on how much excess energy the process generates. The method 
can be improved greatly with proper AC power meters, but even so, if the 
excess energy was ~10% this method would be useless. If the excess was 100% 
you could measure it with confidence. I think it is reasonable to assume 
that the Carnot efficiency of gas would be somewhat worse than gasoline and 
not, say, 20% better, because the motor is designed to work with gasoline.

You could improve the test a little by measuring the surface temperature of 
the motor and generator with a pyrometer. If it ran much hotter with gas, 
you know the Carnot efficiency is considerably lower.


>15% on gasoline is pretty poor . . .

Actually, for a small motor converting all the way through to electricity 
it is pretty good. An ordinary automobile is 20% efficient, but that is a 
measure of vehicle propulsion.


>. . . a self runner with your genset would have to be pretty overefficient 
>(is that the right word?).

If the machine ran by itself for five minutes or more it would prove beyond 
question the process creates massive excess energy. You would have to 
jumpstart the process with an external source of electricity (mains 
electricity), or by building up some pressurized gas before the test 
begins. After it runs for some short period of time, depending on the size 
of the pressurized gas reservoir, you would know it is self-sustaining. You 
can test the size of the reservoir easily. Connect the motor to an external 
load, such as a room heater. Run the gas generator from mains electricity 
and the electric generator for 10 minutes. Turn off the power to the gas 
generator and see how long the electric generator continues to run. I 
suppose it would conk out after a few seconds, judging from the photos and 
the size of the equipment. I doubt the container is under significant pressure.

Someone raised the issue of the energy content of the carbon rod. I think 
it is safe to assume it is no better than top grade coal, 40 MJ/kg.

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 16 08:44:06 2003
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Rick Monteverde wrote:

>Rick's rat theory: Got rats? Set a trap, catch one rat. Set another trap, 
>catch another rat. You still got rats. But if you clear their habitat and 
>forage, then the rats disappear. See how the rats are fleeing from where 
>their habitat has been disturbed?

Let me take this analogy literally for a moment and point out that the 
conditions of war always increase the population of rats, flies and other 
vermin. A battle inevitably leaves unburied bodies and body parts, 
uncollected garbage, spoiled food, abandoned crops, collapsed buildings, 
exposed rotting wood and so on, which are ideal for rats. In other words, 
getting back to the analogy, war creates the optimum conditions for hate, 
despair, poverty and future terrorism. War is a breeding ground for more 
war, just as epidemic disease weakens a population and leaves it vulnerable 
to other diseases.

Perhaps I am the man with a hammer who sees all problems as a nail, but I 
believe the only way to clean up the Middle East and insure freedom and 
progress is to make oil obsolete. Oil and mineral wealth are a curse on 
most societies. Nations without natural resources, such as Japan and 
Switzerland, tend to be the happiest nowadays. In the US, places like West 
Virginia and Texas, which depend on mineral wealth, tend to have the most 
poverty and inequality. Mineral wealth concentrates power in the hands of a 
few. If oil became obsolete overnight, the Middle East would be the poorest 
place on earth. When you subtract oil income from the combined GDP of all 
Middle East oil producing nations, I believe the total is less than the GDP 
of Finland. In other words, these countries have absolutely no source of 
wealth except oil, and they are not likely to to develop any sources as 
long as they are held prisoner by oil money.

Just after World War II, during the occupation of Japan some wise person (I 
don't recall who) wrote that there was as yet no victory in no triumph. For 
all Americans knew in 1945 we might have lost the war, or we might have to 
fight it again a generation later, as we did after World War I. The only 
way to find out whether the victory was real or an illusion was to wait 20 
years to see whether Germans and Japanese people were living happily in 
peace and freedom. For all anyone can guess today, Iraq may have a dictator 
as bad as Hussein in a few years. The person the US wants to put in charge, 
Ahmad Chalabi, was convicted of embezzling $70 million from a bank. See:

http://slate.msn.com/id/2081360/

At best Chalabi will ensure that Iraq remains a kleptocracy, if not a 
full-fledged rein-of-terror dictatorship. I presume that is what the U.S. 
oil interests want. They want a docile, friendly dictator who will ensure 
the Iraq people remain impoverished, ignorant and powerless while the U.S. 
and other first world nations continue to strip Iraq of its wealth. If we 
empower them, we may soon have to pay $2 or $3 per gallon of gas, and that 
is unacceptable to most Americans.


>I'm very glad to see someone like Abbas finally caught.

You will be less glad to see him released on a technicality. The U.S. 
signed a treaty granting him amnesty. I do not think any court would 
overrule that.

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 16 09:10:32 2003
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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell mindspring.com>
Subject: World Bank comparison of Middle East to Finland
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Here is the factoid I alluded to in the previous message, in a World Bank 
publication:

http://lnweb18.worldbank.org/mna/mena.nsf/Attachments/PreMDF/$File/JLS+pre+MDF+OPED.pdf

Quotes:

A glance at non-oil exports, a sign of economic competitiveness, reveals 
that the combined exports of MENA [Middle East and North Africa] countries 
stand at approximately 40 billion dollars — less than that of Finland alone 
whose population is fifty times smaller than that of the  MENA region.

. . .

Knowledge-related economic activity remains modest in MENA. The region’s 
R&D effort is about one-fifth or less that of industrialized countries. It 
also scores lowest in the world on the number of web sites and internet 
users, the most basic indicators of integration in the global knowledge 
economy. . .


- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 16 11:54:52 2003
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Reply-To: <knagel gis.net>
From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: BINGO
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 15:11:22 -0400
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Hi Jed.

I think you may be missing the point. The efficiency
of the detector ( in this case, composed of the genset
and load ) can be quite poor, and still produce very
accurate results, if three things are known.

1) energy content of COH2
2) linearity of response
3) ratio of input to output power

In this case, 1 is assumed to be true from other
experiments (CRC anyone?), it's our "primary standard". 2 can
be measured by changing the feed rate of gas,
and checking that output power varies in a proportional
manner. 3 is determined experimentally as I described
in the last post, as did you. 2 is not so important
if you chose a sweet spot and make sure the feed
is always the same.

Just because the detector is inefficient does not
mean you couldn't make a 10% energy measurement.
If such was the case, all of particle physics would
have to be thrown out the window. You know how efficient
the super-K detector is for neutrinos? (grin)

I stress that I'm talking about a measurement method.
As you say, if I wanted to close the loop I'll likely
need a more efficient genset, and there are some
strong limits on just how efficient that can be.
Information on the link posted earlier stated that the engine is
26.7% efficient on gasoline, but he would need
to do the experiment I describe with the COH2
to know the right value for (3).

I think Mike F. has the right idea, the process
he described for making this gas is a lot more direct
and shows what I think is the basic element underlying
the process. But if there is extra magic in
the arc method, the experiment I describe would
nail it down. Of course, Jean has everything he
needs to do it, right now.

By the way, nowhere on the site does it say that
the generator was run with any load... Am I
missing that bit???

I'm not sure what type of carbon rod he's using,
but I have a bunch of 3/8" 1' long rods that
weigh about 38grams each. Using Jed's estimate,
that would provide 1KW additional energy for about 1/2hr
untill the rod is consumed.

K.



-----Original Message-----
From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:JedRothwell mindspring.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 10:45 AM
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
Subject: RE: BINGO


Regarding the test I described to measure the Carnot efficiency, Keith
Nagel wrote:

>For someone who doesn't think it's possible, you did a pretty good job of
>describing how to do it...

That depends on how much excess energy the process generates. The method
can be improved greatly with proper AC power meters, but even so, if the
excess energy was ~10% this method would be useless. If the excess was 100%
you could measure it with confidence. I think it is reasonable to assume
that the Carnot efficiency of gas would be somewhat worse than gasoline and
not, say, 20% better, because the motor is designed to work with gasoline.

You could improve the test a little by measuring the surface temperature of
the motor and generator with a pyrometer. If it ran much hotter with gas,
you know the Carnot efficiency is considerably lower.


>15% on gasoline is pretty poor . . .

Actually, for a small motor converting all the way through to electricity
it is pretty good. An ordinary automobile is 20% efficient, but that is a
measure of vehicle propulsion.


>. . . a self runner with your genset would have to be pretty overefficient
>(is that the right word?).

If the machine ran by itself for five minutes or more it would prove beyond
question the process creates massive excess energy. You would have to
jumpstart the process with an external source of electricity (mains
electricity), or by building up some pressurized gas before the test
begins. After it runs for some short period of time, depending on the size
of the pressurized gas reservoir, you would know it is self-sustaining. You
can test the size of the reservoir easily. Connect the motor to an external
load, such as a room heater. Run the gas generator from mains electricity
and the electric generator for 10 minutes. Turn off the power to the gas
generator and see how long the electric generator continues to run. I
suppose it would conk out after a few seconds, judging from the photos and
the size of the equipment. I doubt the container is under significant
pressure.

Someone raised the issue of the energy content of the carbon rod. I think
it is safe to assume it is no better than top grade coal, 40 MJ/kg.

- Jed



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 16 12:03:11 2003
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Reply-To: <knagel gis.net>
From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: BINGO
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 15:18:55 -0400
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Hi again.

Given that we know the energy content of
the gas, why bother with the genset at
all? Unless there is some special magic
in the ICE process, why not just collect
the gas and compare to input power?

Really simple, has no-one done this yet???
Jones???

K.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:JedRothwell mindspring.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 10:45 AM
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
Subject: RE: BINGO


Regarding the test I described to measure the Carnot efficiency, Keith
Nagel wrote:

>For someone who doesn't think it's possible, you did a pretty good job of
>describing how to do it...

That depends on how much excess energy the process generates. The method
can be improved greatly with proper AC power meters, but even so, if the
excess energy was ~10% this method would be useless. If the excess was 100%
you could measure it with confidence. I think it is reasonable to assume
that the Carnot efficiency of gas would be somewhat worse than gasoline and
not, say, 20% better, because the motor is designed to work with gasoline.

You could improve the test a little by measuring the surface temperature of
the motor and generator with a pyrometer. If it ran much hotter with gas,
you know the Carnot efficiency is considerably lower.


>15% on gasoline is pretty poor . . .

Actually, for a small motor converting all the way through to electricity
it is pretty good. An ordinary automobile is 20% efficient, but that is a
measure of vehicle propulsion.


>. . . a self runner with your genset would have to be pretty overefficient
>(is that the right word?).

If the machine ran by itself for five minutes or more it would prove beyond
question the process creates massive excess energy. You would have to
jumpstart the process with an external source of electricity (mains
electricity), or by building up some pressurized gas before the test
begins. After it runs for some short period of time, depending on the size
of the pressurized gas reservoir, you would know it is self-sustaining. You
can test the size of the reservoir easily. Connect the motor to an external
load, such as a room heater. Run the gas generator from mains electricity
and the electric generator for 10 minutes. Turn off the power to the gas
generator and see how long the electric generator continues to run. I
suppose it would conk out after a few seconds, judging from the photos and
the size of the equipment. I doubt the container is under significant
pressure.

Someone raised the issue of the energy content of the carbon rod. I think
it is safe to assume it is no better than top grade coal, 40 MJ/kg.

- Jed



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 16 12:13:46 2003
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From: "Jones Beene" <jonesb9 pacbell.net>
To: "vortex" <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Arc discharge, Cold fog and Beta aether
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Dr. Peter Graneau of Northeastern University has spent years studying =
arc discharges. His article in "Infinite Energy Magazine", Issue 44, p. =
39 entitled=20
"Arc-liberated Chemical Energy Exceeds Electrical Input Energy" =
describes a system that he has improved on since that time and is trying =
to commercialize in Canada (apparently) - and his work offers an =
explanation of the effect that Naudin has documented in more graphic =
form.=20

But IMHO, Graneau is slightly off-target in pinpointing the actual =
mechanics behind what he suggests is at least 2-to-1 overunity =
condition, and not only that, Naudin could probably get better results =
using a modified electrolysis cell. BTW the carbon, which is sacrificed =
in Naudin's electrodes, appears to provide only about 20% of the =
thermodynamic output of a system that must be 400% or more OU =
thermodynamically, assuming that the welder is using only self-produced =
electricity.

Graneau often injects a high voltage capacitor of around 40 Joules into =
normal rainwater (seems bizarre but there is a reason) which is =
accelerated into what becomes a "cold fog" that provides an extra 30 =
Joules of low-grade heat and a comparable amount of excess kinetic =
energy. Because he is a PhD, many will accept his work as accurate but =
scoff at the long-standing reports that automobile engine can be run on =
water alone - i.e. water fuel with NO carbon. But cold fog is the key to =
those reports, as well.

After further investigation from a previous post last week on this =
subject of water fuel, I am becoming convinced that water fuel is not =
only feasible but is being actually used NOW (mostly oversea) using a =
variety of techniques. Some of the actual excess energy might derive =
from hydrino formation, but it appears that the more immediate source of =
OU is beta aether, the Van-der-Waals-like force that provides molecular =
structure at the nanometer level.  ZPE, or the aether, or the "energy of =
the vacuum," are better known variants of this concept but it is a =
slightly different slant on those kinds of aether-influences and it =
could even be possible that it is the beta aether itself which drives =
hydrino formation, despite what R. Mills believes. The underlying beta =
aether theory is based on years of careful observation put together by =
Frank Grimer (IE issue 46). I won't go into all of the theoretical =
background now, except to say that the implications of how one can =
utilize this force are very different than an approach which focuses =
solely on arc discharge or electrolysis.


In the case of H2O, one must realize that water can be explosive in its =
own right. So-called "flash" steam can be as explosively violent as TNT =
- actually more so in terms of "available" pressure (that which is =
usable after deducting compressibility related factors). Just before =
water goes into a phase change from liquid to solid or gas, it is =
explosive but only under certain narrow conditions. People understand =
that to drive an engine you need explosions and gas expansion, but few =
have ever looked seriously at the water itself as being the real fuel, =
even though it could be supplying as much as 95% of what appears to be =
the excess energy in water fueled engines.

Those converted engines that run on water may already be using but not =
optimizing beta aether effects. For decades, unproven claims of =
anomalies in hydrogen production (Like Brown's gas or the Meyer cell, =
Leach, Puharich, etc ), have come and lingered, despite the scoffing of =
experts - but the newer technique of using the engine's intake vacuum to =
draw air though the electrolysis cell itself deviates from those past =
claims in an important way...which might be pointing to the one =
important factor that makes all the difference from a theoretical =
perspective.


Of course, the initial response will be, how can cold water explode? If =
I hit it, doesn't go bang. True, but if you hit a bag of flour it =
doesn't go bang either - yet flour is an explosive and has destroyed =
quite a few silos over the years. One might say that to be an explosive =
a material has to increase in volume quickly. Water can be utilized to =
do just that when very small spheres of H2O mist are drawn into a vacuum =
which causes the outer layer to flash off - which then acts to compress =
and cool the smaller spheres that remain, and this compression and =
entropy-loss must occur just at the same time that beta-aether forces =
are trying to expand the liquid into solid ice. Something has to give. =
Ice *expands* in volume rather than contracts, and that expansion can =
easily burst a steel pipe - this is one key to understanding how matter =
interacts with beta-aether explosively.=20

During phase change, large amounts of charge separation will occur, =
making the water mist/vapor (fog) concoction extremely conductive =
electrically. No electrolyte is needed for electrolysis.  *Timing is =
Critical* as too much heat too early will keep the phase change from =
occurring at the proper instant. We know that lightning can be observed =
even in snow storms at high altitude and is more often associated with =
hail than with rain. This should tell us something - that there is =
significant natural charge separation during phase change.=20

Just as flour needs to be finely divided to explode because it requires =
a high surface area, water fuel needs to be even more finely divided to =
explode, but NOT yet totally vaporized down to the molecular level. Note =
the important difference between vaporization and misting (fogging). =
It's all about the size of particle, and avoiding phase change until the =
proper time. The beta-aether is strongest at near-nanometer dimensions, =
as Van der Waals force demonstrate, so "the smaller the better" for =
water mist, up to a point, and that point is probably spheres of a few =
thousand to a few hundred thousand molecules. But there is a caveat, =
because once H2O is totally vaporized (as opposed to misted) the =
explosive potential is LOST! It goes without saying that a partial =
vacuum is absolutely necessary to utilize this dynamic balance.


There are several possibilities for water as a fuel, either using some =
added hydrocarbon,  using only water and air, or perhaps only water, NO =
air even. The most promising immediately technique involves using a =
portion of the mist micro-explosions and the inherent charge separation =
capability, along with a low voltage electric field to maximizing the =
production of protons from water, while leaving the hydroxyl radical =
(OH) intact. This short-live mix is compressed in the engine, exploding =
and immediately sublimating the actual ice spheres that have remained, =
to add enormous gas pressure with reduced actual combustion heat. =
Pushing pistons is all about gas pressure, and those traditionalist who =
persist in believing that it is all about heat "cannot see the forest =
for the trees" so to speak.=20

The water fuel technique depends on the concurrent formation of a =
greater quantity of water mist (with a minimum of actual vapor) than the =
quantity of protons to be split-off. The mist formation will create its =
own charge separation, so that electrolysis can occur at a small =
fraction of the normal required voltage. A secondary goal is that before =
protons can react to form an H2 molecule, each is able to attach to a =
water molecule to give H3O+, the all-important *hydronium ion* which has =
a short lifetime, along with a *hydrated electron* which has an even =
shorter lifetime, but just long enough to stay intact until they can =
interact in the engine's combustion chamber. Timing is critical. Low =
initial heat is critical. Partial vacuum is critical.

And I expect the "experts" will be extremely critical of this =
speculation. Especially if they have any ties to the petrochemical =
industry... but Naudin's engine is the just the tip of an emerging =
iceberg... or should I say beta-ice berg...

Jones

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<DIV>
<P>Dr. Peter Graneau of Northeastern University has spent years studying =
arc=20
discharges.&nbsp;His article in "Infinite Energy Magazine", Issue 44, p. =
39=20
entitled&nbsp;<BR>"Arc-liberated Chemical Energy Exceeds Electrical =
Input=20
Energy" describes a system that he has improved on since that time and =
is trying=20
to commercialize in Canada (apparently) - and his work offers an =
explanation of=20
the effect that Naudin has documented in more graphic form. </P>
<P>But IMHO,&nbsp;Graneau is slightly off-target in pinpointing the =
actual=20
mechanics behind what he suggests is at least&nbsp;2-to-1 overunity =
condition,=20
and not only that,&nbsp;Naudin could probably get better results using a =

modified electrolysis cell. BTW the carbon, which is&nbsp;sacrificed in =
Naudin's=20
electrodes, appears to provide only about 20% of the thermodynamic =
output of a=20
system that must be 400% or more OU thermodynamically, assuming that the =
welder=20
is using only self-produced electricity.</P>
<P>Graneau often injects&nbsp;a high voltage capacitor of&nbsp;around=20
40&nbsp;Joules into normal rainwater (seems bizarre but there is a =
reason) which=20
is accelerated into what becomes a "cold fog" that provides an extra 30 =
Joules=20
of low-grade heat and a comparable amount of excess kinetic energy. =
Because he=20
is a PhD, many will accept his work as accurate but scoff at the =
long-standing=20
reports that automobile engine can be run on water alone - i.e. water =
fuel with=20
NO carbon. But cold fog is the key to those reports, as well.</P>
<P>After further investigation from a previous post last week on this =
subject of=20
water fuel, I am becoming convinced that water fuel is not only feasible =
but is=20
being actually&nbsp;used NOW (mostly oversea) using a variety of =
techniques.=20
Some of the actual excess energy might derive from hydrino formation, =
but it=20
appears that the more immediate source of OU is beta aether, the=20
Van-der-Waals-like force that provides molecular structure at the =
nanometer=20
level.&nbsp;&nbsp;ZPE, or the aether, or the "energy of the vacuum," are =
better=20
known variants of this concept but&nbsp;it is&nbsp;a slightly different =
slant on=20
those kinds of aether-influences and it could even be possible that it =
is the=20
beta aether itself which drives hydrino formation, despite what R. Mills =

believes.&nbsp;The underlying beta aether theory&nbsp;is based on years =
of=20
careful observation put together by Frank Grimer (IE issue 46). I won't =
go into=20
all of the theoretical background now, except to say that the =
implications of=20
how one can utilize this force are very different than an approach which =
focuses=20
solely on arc discharge or&nbsp;electrolysis.</P>
<P></P>
<P>In the case of H2O, one must realize that water can be explosive in =
its own=20
right. So-called "flash" steam can be as explosively violent as TNT - =
actually=20
more so in terms of "available" pressure (that which is usable after =
deducting=20
compressibility related factors). Just before water goes into a phase =
change=20
from liquid to solid or gas, it&nbsp;is explosive but only under certain =
narrow=20
conditions. People understand that to drive an engine you need =
explosions and=20
gas expansion, but few have ever looked seriously at the water itself as =
being=20
the real fuel, even though it could be supplying as much as 95% of what =
appears=20
to be the excess energy in water fueled engines.</P>
<P>Those converted engines that run on water may already be using but =
not=20
optimizing beta aether effects. For decades, unproven claims of =
anomalies in=20
hydrogen production (Like Brown's gas or the Meyer cell, Leach, =
Puharich, etc ),=20
have come and lingered, despite the scoffing of experts - but the newer=20
technique of using the engine's intake vacuum to draw air though the=20
electrolysis cell itself deviates from those past claims in an important =

way...which might be pointing to the one important factor that makes all =
the=20
difference from a theoretical perspective.</P>
<P></P>
<P>Of course, the initial response will be, how can cold water explode? =
If I hit=20
it, doesn't go bang. True, but if you hit a bag of flour it doesn't go =
bang=20
either - yet flour is an explosive and has destroyed quite a few silos =
over the=20
years. One might say that to be an explosive a material has to increase =
in=20
volume quickly. Water can be utilized to do just that when very small =
spheres of=20
H2O mist are drawn into a vacuum which causes the outer layer to flash =
off -=20
which then acts to compress and cool the smaller spheres that remain, =
and this=20
compression and entropy-loss must occur just at the same time that =
beta-aether=20
forces are trying to expand the liquid into solid ice. Something has to =
give.=20
Ice *expands* in volume rather than contracts, and that expansion can =
easily=20
burst a steel pipe - this is one key to understanding how&nbsp;matter =
interacts=20
with beta-aether explosively. </P>
<P>During phase change, large amounts of charge separation will occur, =
making=20
the water mist/vapor (fog) concoction extremely conductive electrically. =
No=20
electrolyte is needed for electrolysis. &nbsp;*Timing is Critical* as =
too much=20
heat too early will keep the phase change from occurring at the proper =
instant.=20
We know that lightning can be observed even in snow storms at high =
altitude and=20
is more often associated with hail than with rain. This should tell us =
something=20
- that there is significant natural charge separation during phase =
change. </P>
<P>Just as flour needs to be finely divided to explode because it =
requires a=20
high surface area, water fuel needs to be even more finely divided to =
explode,=20
but NOT yet totally vaporized down to the molecular level. Note the =
important=20
difference between vaporization and misting (fogging). It's all about =
the size=20
of particle, and avoiding phase change until the proper time. The =
beta-aether is=20
strongest at near-nanometer dimensions, as Van der Waals force =
demonstrate, so=20
"the smaller the better" for water mist, up to a point, and that point =
is=20
probably spheres of a few thousand to a few hundred thousand molecules. =
But=20
there is a caveat, because once H2O is totally vaporized (as opposed to =
misted)=20
the explosive potential is LOST! It goes without saying that a partial =
vacuum is=20
absolutely necessary to utilize this dynamic balance.</P>
<P></P>
<P>There are several possibilities for water as a fuel, =
either&nbsp;using some=20
added hydrocarbon,&nbsp; using only water and air,&nbsp;or =
perhaps&nbsp;only=20
water, NO air even. The most promising immediately technique involves =
using a=20
portion of the mist micro-explosions and the inherent charge separation=20
capability, along with a low voltage electric field to maximizing the =
production=20
of protons from water, while leaving the hydroxyl radical (OH) intact. =
This=20
short-live mix is compressed in the engine, exploding and immediately=20
sublimating the actual ice spheres that have remained, to add enormous =
gas=20
pressure with&nbsp;reduced actual combustion heat. Pushing pistons is =
all about=20
gas pressure, and those traditionalist who persist in believing =
that&nbsp;it is=20
all about heat "cannot see the forest for the&nbsp;trees"&nbsp;so to=20
speak.&nbsp;</P>
<P>The water fuel technique depends on the concurrent formation of a =
greater=20
quantity of water mist (with a minimum of actual vapor) than the =
quantity of=20
protons to be split-off. The mist formation will create its own charge=20
separation, so that electrolysis can occur at a small fraction of the =
normal=20
required voltage. A secondary goal is that before protons can react to =
form an=20
H2 molecule, each is able to attach to a water molecule to give H3O+, =
the=20
all-important *hydronium ion* which has a short lifetime, along with a =
*hydrated=20
electron* which has an even shorter lifetime, but just long enough to =
stay=20
intact until they can interact in the engine's combustion chamber. =
Timing is=20
critical. Low initial heat is critical. Partial vacuum is critical.</P>
<P>And I expect the "experts" will be extremely critical of this=20
speculation.&nbsp;Especially if they have any ties to the petrochemical=20
industry...&nbsp;but Naudin's engine is the just the tip of an emerging=20
iceberg... or should I say beta-ice berg...</P>
<P>Jones</P></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C30411.0083D220--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 16 12:32:38 2003
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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Rat analogy
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References: <v04210102bac24a1bb848 [192.168.123.4]>
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I wrote:

>Perhaps I am the man with a hammer who sees all problems as a nail, but I 
>believe the only way to clean up the Middle East and insure freedom and 
>progress is to make oil obsolete.

Meant ENSURE.


>The person the US wants to put in charge, Ahmad Chalabi, was convicted of 
>embezzling $70 million from a bank.

Plus he has apparently stolen like amounts from the U.S. taxpayers. Quoting 
the Slate article:

"According to a State Department report, nearly half of the $4.3 million in 
U.S. dollars doled out to the INC under the Iraq Liberation Act wasn't 
properly accounted for. Ultimately, State cut Chalabi off, and the INC's 
funding was turned over to the Pentagon, where Chalabi has more political 
allies. Chalabi also reportedly ran through $100 million in CIA money."

As for qualifications, Chalabi is close friend of Cheney and Rumsfield, and 
apparently a good friend of the oil industry. His announced policies are: 
1. "Denationalizing" the Iraqi oil industry, and 2. Recognize Israel. #1 
would put the industry back as it was before the 1960s and before OPEC. In 
other words, he would hand over the country to U.S. oil companies, which 
would steal everything not nailed down, the way they used to do. #2 would 
be impossible to implement without a harsh dictatorship. See:

http://www.movingideas.org/article/full_cite/132.html

Rumsfield has denied that the U.S. will try to put Chalabi or anyone else 
into power. He says the decision will be left to the Iraqi people. And if 
you believe that, you will also believe Enron had no influence on Cheney's 
energy policies.


>At best Chalabi will ensure that Iraq remains a kleptocracy, if not a 
>full-fledged rein-of-terror dictatorship. I presume that is what the U.S. 
>oil interests want. They want a docile, friendly dictator who will ensure 
>the Iraq people remain impoverished, ignorant and powerless while the U.S. 
>and other first world nations continue to strip Iraq of its wealth.

This is not only my impression. Knowledgeable observers have reported this:


Foreign-policy "realists" may prefer a pro-American dictator who is more 
interested in security than popular sovereignty. The Iraqi dissident Kanan 
Makiya said as much in the New York Times Magazine in March: "Some people 
in the government are talking democratic change," Makiya told the writer 
George Packer, "and there are other people who think that's all a pile of 
garbage. These others are in the State Department and the C.I.A. today."


- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 16 12:33:26 2003
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	Dear KN,

	Are there any figures which permit us to know the current and
voltage used, over 'n' period of time which results in 'x' volume of gas?

	Until these figures are known it seems as though one cannot know
the electrical energy used to make any given volume of gas or mixture of 
gases.

					

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 16 12:51:06 2003
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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 15:47:38 -0400
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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: BINGO
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Keith Nagel wrote:

>The efficiency of the detector ( in this case, composed of the genset
>and load ) can be quite poor, and still produce very accurate results. . .

I expect efficiency and accuracy would both be poor. I did somewhat similar 
measurements with the Griggs machine, using a very expensive, 
professionally designed test rig. It is very difficult to make accurate 
measurements with large machinery or with power levels over ~10 watts. 
(That is not the same as saying it is difficult to make *convincing* 
measurements.) The input with the Griggs gadget was much easier to measure 
than the enthalpy of gas, being electricity and/or torque. The output was 
also one step back in the chain. It was heat from the mechanical work, not 
electricity from mechanical work. Overall, this was not efficient or 
accurate, although I think it was accurate enough to establish the excess 
with confidence. I doubt it was better than +/- 5%, but the excess was 
sometimes 117% of mechanical input, whereas it should not have been even 
95%, given the heat losses from the machine.


>, if three things are known.
>
>1) energy content of COH2

This may be difficult to establish. I suppose the gas is mixed in with 
hydrogen (H2), oxygen (O2) water vapor and contamination, and the mixture 
changes rapidly and unpredictably. The heat from the arc may decompose the 
water directly (pyrolysis).



>2) linearity of response

Impossible to know without extensive testing.


>3) ratio of input to output power

Since you do not know the Carnot efficiency of the engine when used with 
this gas, you can only approximate this.


>Just because the detector is inefficient does not
>mean you couldn't make a 10% energy measurement.

Yes, but I expect these other factors preclude 10% accuracy. I am only 
speculating, however. Perhaps the error is only 5% . . . or perhaps it is 
20%. It is impossible to judge because Naudin has not published many 
details yet.

- Jed


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Subject: RE: BINGO ----> What are the Watts?
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Hi John.

Not that I am aware. But clearly many people have
been working on this, as Jones seems to have
been "tuning in" to this for the past few weeks
maybe he can point us to some more technical
information? Also seems like the kind of thing
that's right down Fred Sparber's crooked alley (grin).
C'mon Fred, I know you must have already spec'd
out this system....

K.


-----Original Message-----
From: John Schnurer [mailto:herman antioch-college.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 3:32 PM
To: Keith Nagel
Cc: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: RE: BINGO ----> What are the Watts?




	Dear KN,

	Are there any figures which permit us to know the current and
voltage used, over 'n' period of time which results in 'x' volume of gas?

	Until these figures are known it seems as though one cannot know
the electrical energy used to make any given volume of gas or mixture of 
gases.

					


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 16 13:01:21 2003
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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 15:58:34 -0400
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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: BINGO
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Keith Nagel wrote:

>Given that we know the energy content of the gas . . .

As I wrote in the previous message, I doubt we know this with any degree of 
accuracy. It is probably a complex mixture. The gas goes directly from a 
rather primitive looking gas generator into the motor. In a commercial COH2 
generator, I presume they would filter out water vapor and control the 
chemistry of the gas mixture carefully.

Of course if the excess is large enough, none of these issues matter. As I 
said, 100% excess would surely be enough to do a convincing demonstration, 
even with these inaccurate techniques, and even though this is nowhere near 
enough to self-sustain. A few more numbers from Naudin might tell a 
convincing story.

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 16 17:41:53 2003
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Subject: water gas heating value
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I found this value on the net for water gas,
2970 calories per cub. metre.
Gas for this value is composed of

3.3% carbon dioxide
44% carbon monoxide
0.4% methane
48.6% hydrogen
3.7% nitrogen

Now this is really simple, just run
the generator and monitor the power
in, and measure the quantity of gas
produced. If there's some magic
in the arc, it'll be apparent.

K.





From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 16 23:02:12 2003
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From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Re: Arc discharge, Cold fog and Beta aether
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Dr. Peter Graneau of Northeastern University has spent years studying 
arc discharges. His article in "Infinite Energy Magazine", Issue 44, 
p. 39 entitled

I listened to him speak at one of the early INE conferences
>
But IMHO, Graneau is slightly off-target in pinpointing the actual 
mechanics behind what he suggests is at least 2-to-1 overunity 
condition, and not only that, Naudin

As I recall he believes that he is inducing LENR's

>Graneau often injects a high voltage capacitor of around 40 Joules 
>into normal rainwater (seems bizarre but there is a reason) which is 
>accelerated into what becomes a "cold fog" that provides an extra 30 
>Joules of low-grade heat and a

excess energy might derive from hydrino formation, but it appears 
that the more immediate source of OU is beta aether, the 
Van-der-Waals-like force that provides

What is this Beta Aether? How does it differ from the Aether?

on those kinds of aether-influences and it could even be possible 
that it is the beta aether itself which drives hydrino formation, 
despite what R. Mills believes. The underlying beta aether theory is 
based on years of careful observation

You believe that the excess energy is coming from the Aether and not 
hydrino formation?

>seriously at the water itself as being the real fuel, even though it 
>could be supplying as much as 95% of what appears to be the excess 
>energy in water fueled engines.

I've heard reports of WFE for years, but I have never seen one work, have you?

>
>Those converted engines that run on water may already be using but 
>not optimizing beta aether effects. For decades, unproven claims of 
>anomalies in hydrogen

Someone once told me about the run away truck syndrome, it occurs 
when a truck is coming down a mountain during the rain. Suddenly the 
truck starts to accelerate despite the fact that the driver has taken 
his foot off of the gas petal.

>expansion can easily burst a steel pipe - this is one key to 
>understanding how matter interacts with beta-aether explosively.
>
>During phase change, large amounts of charge separation will occur, 
>making the water mist/vapor (fog) concoction extremely conductive 
>electrically. No electrolyte is needed for electrolysis.  *Timing is 
>Critical* as too much heat too early will keep the

In a spark ignited engine you would have the electric spark and with 
rain water there would be all sorts of organic chemicals, then there 
is the gasoline.

Note the important difference between vaporization and misting 
(fogging). It's all

>there is a caveat, because once H2O is totally vaporized (as opposed 
>to misted) the explosive potential is LOST! It goes without saying 
>that a partial vacuum is absolutely necessary to utilize this 
>dynamic balance.

This is why the phenomena doesn't occur in diesels.

>can occur at a small fraction of the normal required voltage. A 
>secondary goal is that before protons can react to form an H2 
>molecule, each is able to attach to a water molecule to give H3O+, 
>the all-important *hydronium ion* which has a short

I would assume that the third H would be associated with the other 
two, as opposed to being bonded to the O

>they have any ties to the petrochemical industry... but Naudin's 
>engine is the just the tip of an emerging iceberg... or should I say 
>beta-ice berg...
>
Any Chem E will tell you that this is impossible.

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This thread makes me recall the technology that is owned by Toupe 
Technology. They were planning on using it as a method for the 
destruction of toxic waste. They said that the process was not over 
unity however.

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http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2003/17apr_zeolite.htm?list43177

"Picture this: Your car's fuel tank is lined with crystallized, porous 
rock and that "rock" weighs 93 pounds. You pull into a hydrogen fueling 
station and the attendant forces 7 pounds of hydrogen into the 
zeolite-lined walls of the tank. This, theoretically, would be the 
hydrogen equivalent to a full tank of gasoline--in both total weight and 
energy content."



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr 17 17:50:14 2003
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From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
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Subject: 2003 Webby awards
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The Webby Awards: the www equivalent of the Oscars, but flakier.

This year some of the nominees are google.com, ebay.com, nasa.gov...

...and amasci.com


!!!



(((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                            SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                            http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair
Seattle, WA  206-789-0775    unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr 17 22:01:25 2003
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Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 15:24:12 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: RE: BINGO
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This process might have some promise if the arc used were fueled by CO2
gas, or at least the gas left over from burning the water gas generated.
There would then be a closed loop chemically speaking.  Then the chemistry
of the problem would be out of the energy balance, and only the net
electric power and net heat would have to be balanced.  Closing the loop
chemically also makes the device far more practical.

It is unlikely that this approach can be made to work because the "excess"
energy probably comes from burning the C through an indirect set of paths
in order to make CO2.  If the C arrives at the start of the process already
"burned" into CO2, then there is no energy source available but free energy
and the electric energy supplied to the arc.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr 18 02:46:40 2003
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From: "Frederick Sparber" <fjsparber earthlink.net>
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Subject: Re: CANR/LENR of Deuterium-Potassium in Sea Water?
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 03:42:45 -0500
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If a Deuteron "donated" it's neutron to Potassium in Supercritical D2O:

D +  K-39 --->  Ca-40 + Proton + 7.0 Mev

http://www.kobelco.co.jp/eneka/p14/sfe04.htm

The anomalous ratio of Sodium to Potassium in Sea Water indicates that this may be
occurring:

Potassium:

http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/K/geol.html

Abundance ppb  by weight ppb       by atoms
 Universe             3000                        100
 Sun                    4000                         100
 Meteorite (carbonaceous) 710000    370000
 Crustal rocks    15000000                7800000
 Sea water         416000                     65800
 Stream              2300                           59
 Human            2000000                    320000

Sodium: http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/Na/geol.html

Abundance ppb by weight ppb           by atoms
 Universe            20000                      1000
 Sun                   40000                       2000
 Meteorite (carbonaceous) 5600000  4800000
 Crustal rocks   23000000                 21000000
 Sea water        11050000                  2970000
 Stream              8000                           350
 Human             1400000                     380000

Fred


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr 18 04:37:26 2003
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I have on hand a 1.0 inch O.D. x 3.0 inch long mild steel pressure vessel with a 1/2
inch female pipe thread on one end and 3/4 inch wrench flats on the bottom. It weighs
350 grams and holds about 10 grams of tap water.

It's up for grabs as a freebie if someone has the intestinal fortitude to fill it with
D2O "spiked" with K2CO3 and run it in an oven at 300 - 360 C , while set up to do
Differential Thermal Analysis (DTA) on it.

Ed?   :-)

Fred

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr 18 06:53:12 2003
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Subject: Re: 2003 Webby awards
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William Beaty wrote:

>The Webby Awards: the www equivalent of the Oscars, but flakier.
>
>This year some of the nominees are google.com, ebay.com, nasa.gov...
>
>...and amasci.com

Bravo! Congratulations!

Does this mean you will be attending a lavish presentation ceremony 
featuring maudlin speeches and young women wearing revealing outfits!?!

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr 18 08:12:03 2003
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Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 11:09:15 -0400
From: "Terry Blanton" <blantont rtpatlanta.com>
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I can't understand how this is supposed to work; but, the photograph is 
bizarre!

http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/379/9675_energy.html

The mention of the YUSMAR toward the end does not lend credibility, IMO.

Terry

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From: "Jones Beene" <jonesb9 pacbell.net>
To: "vortex" <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: More combustion crankiness
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 08:55:37 -0700
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There are a number of reasons why hydrogen is such a good fuel in an =
automotive engine. These reasons point to why water itself, when =
partially split, might return enough energy on combustion to recycle in =
order to split off more hydrogen and thereby self-sustain itself... =
but,... how can water be a fuel? Its already completely "burnt" so to =
speak...or is it?=20

The answer may be NO, but you will have to follow this convoluted =
argument (aka "crank" theory) which builds on two previous postings =
which focused on beta aether.

First, consider hydrogen vs oil-based fuels. Burning hydrogen is so much =
more efficient than burning carbon that - although H2 costs as much as =
50 times more per pound (vs coal   $.02), the energy output per dollar =
for transportation fuel is not too different. Why do you think it is =
such a better transportation fuel than carbon? If you said, "because it =
is lighter and burns hotter" then go to the blackboard and write fifty =
times,  I need to forget everything I learned in school about =
combustion."=20

Too much heat at high pressure, can and is *wasted* all the time in an =
IC engine. One only needs enough heat to insure fairly complete =
combustion and to raise gas pressure in the cylinder to the optimum =
level, which is surprisingly low. Here's an off-beat spin on IC =
thermodynamics, that even if you understand what "critical pressure" is =
all about, may not have registered. =20

In the critical region, gases can become so compressible that they loose =
their ability to transfer their heat energy dynamically to the =
surroundings. And some gases get to that state PDQ. Carbon dioxide, for =
instance, has a critical pressure of only a measly ~1000 psi, over three =
times lower than steam, and it has a molecular weight that is way over =
double steam and a velocity that is tortoise-like in comparison. In =
short, it's probably the worst medium for converting heat from =
combustion into mechanical energy that one could imagine. Its a miracle =
in itself that an IC engine burning hydrocarbon can even get to 25% =
efficiency.

The Ideal Gas Law was first written in 1834 by Emil Clapeyron. Because =
it is a simple linear relationship, and works well at STP, it has misled =
many people to think thermodynamics is a firm and clear-cut science. =
Bunko. Unfortunately, the Gas Law doesn't work in any situation where =
actual combustion takes place. And it takes no account of thermochemical =
interaction, especially of short-lived intermediate species..

A typical IC engine requires a compression ratio of 10-1 to get upto =
85%complete combustion of hydrocarbons (that's about the max, so there =
is usually 15% wasted off the top because of the strong molecular =
bonding of hydrocarbons) but when you burn hydrogen, you can get =
near-complete combustion at far less than the150 psi needed for =
gasoline. The ~1000 psi critical pressure for CO2 is only about 6 times =
higher then the compressed gas in the IC cylinder, so in practice - lets =
say that x-amount of calories from burning carbon will raise the gas =
pressure from 150 to 1000, then adding more is basically a waste. =
Catch-22, if you try to ignite x amount, it often won't even burn, so =
you have to use 3x just to get ignition. Do you see the problem here? =
You have already expended three times more fuel than you needed to raise =
the temperature of the gas to the optimum level, and that extra heat you =
added cannot be returned efficiently because the CO2 has exceeded it =
critical pressure.=20

It's not that grim in practice because as the piston goes down and =
pressure drops, more and more of the formerly wasted heat can be =
returned. But because of these insane requirements, we have been misled =
into thinking that high compression is efficient, when in truth it is =
only efficient  because we had to use carbon in the fuel. It would be =
far more efficient to use a lower compression ratio and a better fuel ! =
HYDROGEN !

The ionization energy of the hydrogen atom is said to be 13.6 eV (in =
practice it can appear to be far less) which could be interpreted to =
mean that a bare proton has an equivalent temperature of 157,700 degrees =
Celsius, and it can be shown that, because of thermodynamic =
peculiarities, a large number of bare protons will form when steam =
reaches 4000 degrees Celsius. If one could keep these protons "bare" for =
long enough you can see that only, say 10% bare protons in steam would =
raise and keep the temperature of the steam far above 4000, but it =
doesn't happen that way, so to get any "free energy" we must do a lot =
more. Problem is, bare protons, aka nascent hydrogen, don't like to stay =
naked for long. But the longer one can keep them that way, the more =
likely they will shed energy or interact with something to effectively =
"keep on burnin".

Remember the rhetorical question/answer at the start, "how can water be =
a fuel? Its already completely "burnt" so to speak...or is it? " It =
might be possible to make hydrogen "burn" more than once - by forcing it =
on to what is really only a "partially burnt" molecule, H2O, to form =
hydronium and then immediately let it transition back to steam via =
combination with a hydroxyl radical you get double the exposure time of =
the bare proton with its equivalent temperature of 157,700 degrees =
Celsius. The hydrogen atom might even then be induced to "shrink" below =
ground state, or any number of secondary excursions, like picking up a =
photon from virtual positronium, quien sabe...the bottom line being that =
some portion of the hydrogen burns again and again.

....And even if you can get this situation to occur only in a small =
fraction of the molecules present, a surprising amount of "free energy" =
might possibly be coaxed out. This doesn't answer the question that =
astute vortexians will be quick to ask "OK, but where is the excess =
energy really coming from?"

More on that later, as I have got to go out and check out a 1979 =
Mercedes diesel engine that can be had for $100. This is maybe the ideal =
kind IC for converting to use in a water-as-fuel experiment... IF that =
is....the possibly "crank theory" (or possibly brilliant theory) that =
has currently seduced the thinking of yours truly is even close to the =
mark...which past experience may indicate to some readers of these =
postings is seldom the case.

But don't forget that 100 years ago, almost all of the most highly =
respected physicists and engineers thought that the prospect of ever =
getting energy out of the atom was nothing more than a crank theory, =
"moonshine" they said... hah, moonshine indeed...

Jones

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<DIV>There are a number of reasons why hydrogen is such a good fuel in =
an=20
automotive engine. These reasons point to why water itself, when =
partially=20
split, might return enough energy on combustion to&nbsp;recycle in =
order&nbsp;to=20
split off more hydrogen and thereby self-sustain itself... but,... how =
can water=20
be a fuel? Its already completely "burnt" so to speak...or is =
it?&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The answer&nbsp;may be&nbsp;NO, but you will have to =
follow&nbsp;this=20
convoluted argument (aka "crank" theory) which builds on two previous =
postings=20
which focused on beta aether.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>First, consider hydrogen vs oil-based fuels. Burning hydrogen is so =
much=20
more efficient than burning carbon that - although&nbsp;H2 costs as much =
as 50=20
times more per pound (vs coal   $.02), the energy output per =
dollar&nbsp;for=20
transportation fuel is not too different. Why do you think it is such a =
better=20
transportation fuel than carbon? If you said, "because it is lighter and =
burns=20
hotter" then go to the blackboard and write fifty times,&nbsp; I need to =
forget=20
everything I learned in school about combustion." </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Too much&nbsp;heat at high pressure, can and is *wasted* all the=20
time&nbsp;in an IC engine.&nbsp;One only needs enough heat to =
insure&nbsp;fairly=20
complete combustion and to raise gas pressure in the cylinder to the =
optimum=20
level, which is surprisingly low. Here's an off-beat&nbsp;spin on IC=20
thermodynamics, that even if you understand what "critical pressure" is =
all=20
about, may not have registered.&nbsp; </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>In the critical region, gases can become so compressible =
that&nbsp;they=20
loose their ability to transfer their heat energy dynamically to the=20
surroundings.&nbsp;And some gases get to that state PDQ. Carbon dioxide, =
for=20
instance,&nbsp;has a critical pressure of only a measly ~1000 psi, over =
three=20
times lower than steam, and it has a molecular weight that is way over =
double=20
steam and a velocity that is tortoise-like in comparison. In short, it's =

probably the worst medium for converting heat from combustion into =
mechanical=20
energy that one could imagine. Its a miracle in itself that an IC engine =
burning=20
hydrocarbon can even get to 25% efficiency.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The Ideal Gas Law was first written in 1834 by Emil Clapeyron. =
Because it=20
is a simple linear relationship, and works well at STP, it has misled =
many=20
people to think thermodynamics is a firm and clear-cut science.=20
Bunko.&nbsp;Unfortunately,&nbsp;the Gas Law&nbsp;doesn't work in any =
situation=20
where actual combustion takes place. And it takes no account of =
thermochemical=20
interaction, especially of short-lived intermediate species..</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>A typical&nbsp;IC engine requires a compression ratio of 10-1 to =
get upto=20
85%complete combustion of hydrocarbons (that's about the max, so there =
is=20
usually 15% wasted off the top because of the strong molecular bonding =
of=20
hydrocarbons) but when you burn hydrogen, you can get near-complete =
combustion=20
at far less than the150 psi needed for gasoline. The ~1000 psi critical =
pressure=20
for CO2 is only about 6 times higher then the compressed gas in the IC =
cylinder,=20
so in practice -&nbsp;lets say that&nbsp;x-amount of calories&nbsp;from =
burning=20
carbon will raise the gas pressure from 150 to 1000, then adding more is =

basically a waste. Catch-22, if you try to ignite x amount, it often =
won't even=20
burn, so you have to use 3x just to get ignition. Do you see the problem =
here?=20
You have already expended three times more fuel than you needed to raise =
the=20
temperature of the gas to the optimum level, and that extra heat you =
added=20
cannot be returned efficiently&nbsp;because the CO2 has exceeded it =
critical=20
pressure. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>It's not that grim in practice because as the piston goes down and =
pressure=20
drops, more and more of the formerly wasted heat can be returned. But =
because of=20
these insane requirements, we have been misled into thinking that high=20
compression is efficient, when in truth it is only efficient&nbsp; =
because we=20
had to use carbon&nbsp;in the&nbsp;fuel. It would be far more efficient =
to use a=20
lower compression ratio and a better fuel ! HYDROGEN !</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The ionization energy of the hydrogen atom is said to be 13.6 eV =
(in=20
practice it&nbsp;can appear to be&nbsp;far less)&nbsp;which&nbsp;could =
be=20
interpreted to mean that a bare proton has an&nbsp;equivalent =
temperature of=20
157,700 degrees Celsius, and it can be shown that, because of =
thermodynamic=20
peculiarities, a large number of bare protons will form when steam =
reaches 4000=20
degrees Celsius. If one could keep these protons&nbsp;"bare" for long =
enough you=20
can see that only,&nbsp;say 10% bare protons in steam would raise and =
keep the=20
temperature of the steam far above 4000, but it doesn't happen that way, =
so to=20
get any "free energy" we must do a lot&nbsp;more.&nbsp;Problem is, bare =
protons,=20
aka nascent hydrogen,&nbsp;don't like to stay naked for long. But the =
longer one=20
can keep them that way, the more likely they will shed energy or =
interact with=20
something to effectively "keep on burnin".</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Remember the rhetorical question/answer at the start, "how can =
water be a=20
fuel? Its already completely "burnt" so to speak...or is it?&nbsp;" It =
might be=20
possible to make hydrogen "burn" more than once - by forcing it on to =
what is=20
really only a "partially burnt" molecule, H2O, to form hydronium and =
then=20
immediately let it transition back to steam via combination with a =
hydroxyl=20
radical you get double the exposure time of&nbsp;the bare proton with =
its=20
equivalent temperature of 157,700 degrees Celsius. The hydrogen atom =
might even=20
then be induced to&nbsp;"shrink" below ground state, or any number of =
secondary=20
excursions, like picking up a photon from virtual positronium, quien =
sabe...the=20
bottom line being that some portion of the hydrogen burns again and =
again.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>....And even if you can get this situation to occur only in a small =

fraction of the molecules present, a surprising amount of "free energy" =
might=20
possibly be coaxed out. This doesn't answer the question that astute =
vortexians=20
will be quick to ask "OK, but where is the excess energy really coming=20
from?"</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>More on that later, as I have got to go out and check&nbsp;out a =
1979=20
Mercedes diesel engine that can be had for $100. This is maybe the ideal =

kind&nbsp;IC for converting to use in a water-as-fuel=20
experiment...&nbsp;IF&nbsp;that is....the possibly "crank theory" (or =
possibly=20
brilliant theory)&nbsp;that has currently seduced the thinking of yours=20
truly&nbsp;is even close to the mark...which past experience may =
indicate to=20
some readers of these postings is seldom the case.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>But don't forget that 100 years ago, almost all of the most highly=20
respected physicists and engineers thought that the prospect of ever =
getting=20
energy out of the atom was nothing more than&nbsp;a crank theory, =
"moonshine"=20
they said... hah, moonshine indeed...</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Jones</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C30588.47E9C660--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr 18 09:53:01 2003
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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: More combustion crankiness
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Jones Beene wrote:

>First, consider hydrogen vs oil-based fuels. Burning hydrogen is so much 
>more efficient than burning carbon that - although H2 costs as much as 50 
>times more per pound (vs coal   $.02) . . .

Does it? I do not know the price, but I don't think it is that expensive. 
It is made by reformulating natural gas or gasoline, and the process is 
pretty efficient, so I don't see how it could be 50 times more expensive 
than fossil fuels. (Oil is more expensive than coal per MJ, but not that 
much more expensive. I do not recall the numbers.)


>, the energy output per dollar for transportation fuel is not too different.

Not according to the Hydrogen Program Plan, Appendix A. as combustion fuel 
derived from electrolysis, it would be seven or eight times more expensive 
than gasoline I think. This is the only meaningful comparison. There would 
be no point to reformulating gasoline and then burning the hydrogen.

If Beene's o-u energy hypothesis is correct, and there is such thing as 
enhanced burning or burning H2O, that would be a different story. In that 
case a hydrogen ICE might make sense. However if combustion works the way 
conventional textbooks say, a fuel-cell would be more cost-effective. I 
believe that is true even though Beene's other points about critical 
pressure are correct, and hydrogen as combustion fuel does offer some 
advantages.

- Jed


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 . . . only $34.95 at:

http://herobuilders.com/

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Subject: Luciferian thermodynamics
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:51:28 -0400
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Saw this on Erics list.

An organization we should all become more familar with...

http://www.natasinfo.org/

And who better to understand the intricacies of thermodynamics
than old Satan (natas) himself. Wingnuts Rejoice!

K.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr 18 13:55:52 2003
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On Fri, 18 Apr 2003, Jed Rothwell wrote:

> Does this mean you will be attending a lavish presentation ceremony
> featuring maudlin speeches and young women wearing revealing outfits!?!

Apparently the Webbys are "Academy Awards, flaky version."

Expensive clothing, but the speeches are limited to 5 words each.  Watch
famous people being frightened by hired performance artists.

This calls for a megavolt body-charger and permanently on-end hair.  Or
perhaps a blazing white halo.  (benie hat with cluster of white LEDS on
thin black wire spun extremely rapidly.)

Damn, I wish I knew how Tesla accomplished his "flaming human"  effect.
White corona covering his whole body, not just the protruding bits.  I've
heard rumors that it was a self-contained contraption, but maybe it was
something large hidden backstage.



(((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                            SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                            http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair
Seattle, WA  206-789-0775    unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci

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Apparently the Webbys has a "people's choice award" section.  Vote for
amasci.com (or perhaps for the other contender, howstuffworks.com.)

  http://www.webbyawards.com/peoplesvoice/



[Registration with emailed password required to stop ballot-box stuffing.]

(((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                            SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                            http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair
Seattle, WA  206-789-0775    unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr 18 15:28:48 2003
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Keith Nagel wrote:

> And who better to understand the intricacies of thermodynamics
> than old Satan (natas) himself. Wingnuts Rejoice!

I just knew it was the devil who was keeping those perpetual motion machines from working! Now we know.  Newton and Carnot were no doubt his evil minions.

M.

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr 18 16:55:08 2003
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: WHAT'S NEW    Friday, 18 Apr 03
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 15:44:34 -0400
From: "What's New" <opa aps.org>
Reply-To: opa aps.org
To: "What's New" <whatsnew lists.apsmsgs.org>

WHAT'S NEW   Robert L. Park   Friday, 18 Apr 03   Washington, DC

1. POLYGRAPH: DOE DECIDES TO SIMPLY REISSUE ITS OLD POLICY.  The
National Academy of Sciences completed its review of scientific
evidence on the polygraph (WN 15 Dec 00).  The NAS report, "The
Polygraph and Lie Detection" (NAS Press, 2003), found polygraph
tests to be unacceptable for DOE employee security screening
because of the high rate of false positives and susceptibility to
countermeasures.  Congress instructed the Department of Energy to
reevaluate its policies on the use of the polygraph in light of
the NAS report.  DOE carefully reevaluated its policies and
reissued them without change, arguing that a high rate of false
positives must mean the threshold for detecting lies is very low. 
Therefore, the test must also nab a lot of true positives.  Since
that's the goal, the DOE position seems to be that the polygraph
tests are working fine and false positives are just unavoidable
collateral damage.  But there is still a countermeasures problem:
anyone can be trained to fool the polygraph in just five minutes. 
WN therefore recommends replacing the polygraph with a coin toss. 
If a little collateral damage is not a problem, coins will catch
fully half of all spies, a vast improvement over the polygraph,
which has never caught even one.  Moreover, coins are notoriously
difficult to train, making them impervious to countermeasures. 

2. SENSITIVE BUT UNCLASSIFIED: RESTRAINTS ON FLOW OF INFORMATION. 
All governments covet the power to withhold information from the
public, as well as from other governments (WN 21 Mar 03).  The
accepted means is classification, but that obstructs information
sharing within the government, often with serious consequences. 
The solution has been to create a new category of "sensitive but
unclassified" information, aimed at keeping the information from
us.  A new report by Genevieve J. Knezo of the Congressional
Research Service covers the whole area of secrecy: "Sensitive But
Unclassified and Other Federal Security Controls on Scientific
Information: History and Current Controversy," April 2, 2003.

3. LOW-EARTH ORBIT: THE PRISONERS OF SPACE STATION FREEDOM.  Now
that the Iraq War is winding down (WN 21 Mar 03), the media is
beginning to resume coverage of the International Space Station
and the future of NASA after Columbia.  Yuri Koptov, director of
the Russian space agency, warned again that, with the shuttles
grounded, supplies and people could not be ferried to the ISS
unless NASA picked up the tab (WN 14 Mar 03).  With the White
House already at odds with Russia over its opposition to the War,
there was not much chance of that.  But President Putin reassured
the ISS crew that Russia stands by its commitments to the ISS as
long as the shuttles remain grounded. 

4. SUV FUEL ECONOMY: REMEMBER BUSH'S VOLUNTARY PLAN?  In Texas
they say the first liar hasn't got a chance.  Ford started off,
promising to improve fuel economy 25% by 2005.  Shucks, the
others said, we'll do at better'n that.  Yesterday, Ford backed
away.  The others haven't spoken up yet, but they will. 

THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND and THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY.  
Opinions are the author's and are not necessarily shared by the
University or the American Physical Society, but they should be.
---
Archives of What's New can be found at http://www.aps.org/WN
You are currently subscribed to whatsnew as: <aki ix.netcom.com>
To unsubscribe, send a blank e-mail to:
<leave-whatsnew-27231J lists.apsmsgs.org>
To subscribe, send a blank e-mail to: <join-whatsnew lists.apsmsgs.org>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Apr 20 02:13:04 2003
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Subject: By Design
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I just purchased a copy of By Design. It talks about the various 
factors which make life possible. On May 2 there will be a debate 
between an Old Earth Creationist, a Young Earth Creationist, and an 
Evolutionist, which will be moderated by Hugh Hewitt, 
www.hughhewitt.com .  Since the subject of the book is germane to the 
topic, it is my intention to read the book, and then comment on it.

I would like to thank Hamdi for his partial answer to my questions 
about the Sun. I hope that he will continue the thread. During the 
thread on the production of Ag 109? from Pd, there was mention made 
of a characteristic frequency emitted by the decay of the 
radioneuclide. I'm wondering if this is also the case with nuclear 
reactions. It has been postulated that the reaction that powers the 
Sun involves a reaction between carbon, hydrogen and nitrogen. Since 
this reaction can be replicated in an accelerator, we would be able 
to determine the frequency of the photons emitted. We should be able 
to see this in a spectrum of sunlight.

I have this paper which was written by some Russian scientists which 
sets out the Hollow Sun theory, Their argument is based on an 
experiment conducted by the Cosmanauts, in which a spherical 
container of liquid was shaken to induce bubbles. When allowed to sit 
in zero gravity, the liquid migrated ot the outside of the sphere and 
a bubble formed in the center. If any of you are interested, let me 
know and I'll forward this 10 page article. They contend that the Sun 
is not nuclear powered. I don't understand their theory of were the 
energy is coming from, but I assume that it would be the Aether.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Apr 20 02:13:05 2003
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Fred posted;

>If a Deuteron "donated" it's neutron to Potassium in Supercritical D2O:
>
Could this be the result of biotransformations?

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Seen on NewsMax


SPAM REVENGE

"Spam king" Alan Ralsky recently mentioned during an
interview that his new home is located in West Bloomfield,
Mich.  The interview was posted on the Internet and an
anti-spam reader found his Michigan address.  Ralsky soon
found that hundreds of anti-spam advocates had signed him
up to thousands of mailing lists and catalogs.  According
to Ralsky, he now gets hundreds of pounds of junk mail per
day and is unable to find his real mail.

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In a message dated 4/20/2003 1:49:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
thebishop usadatanet.net writes:

> There may also be a way to forego the need to electrify
> the
> >>ship's hull by centrifugally recirculating some of the working fluid
> moving
> >>through the inlet portion of the engine.  

In order to get an airship with an air or gas shell to electrify itself, so 
as to create an antidrag or anti-friction and antigravity energy force field 
around the hull of the ship, in all types of possible atmospheres which may 
have a mixture of a gas and photonic cosmic 4 dimensional energies, you need 
to create a vortex or parametric nonlinear crossing formation in the metal of 
the hull, to allow the metal of the hull to act like a sponge to pull in the 
higher 4 dimensional cosmic, photonic, and gas energies in any atmosphere.  
Once the metal formation, can pull in the gas and cosmic 4 dimensional 
energies from any atmosphere, then the metal in the hull must also redirect 
the 4 dimensional energies, into a antifriction and antigravity force field 
around the ship hull, which is also dependent on the type of atmosphere 
whether gas on a planet or in a vacuum in outer space, and the capacitance 
difference of the atmosphere on a planet or in outer space, which allows the 
ship to resonate at the capacitance difference to levitate in the atmosphere. 
  

The metal alloy and matrix formation of a metal alloy to achieve the above 
goals can be designed on a computer model of a crystal matrix of the metals 
which are combined and made in many different layers of the metal and which 
act as nanotech circuits, and nanotech natural 4 dimensional cross vortexes 
and parametric nonlinear circuits that jam out lower 3D energies to pull in 
4D energies.   Then the metal alloy matrix formations are cast and formed by 
immersing the metals in a microwave image of the computer metal matrix 
models, which forms the nanotech vortexes and circuit grooves in the metal, 
just as Tesla energy plates are made.

The designs of the nanotech vortex and parametric nonlinear crossing matrix 
circuits, collectors, and antigravity and antifriction force field matrix 
circuits, can be designed just like any microchip or transistor, by using 
standard nonlinear electrical circuit designs and models created from 
different types of metals, and geometry's of the metals formed in a vortex or 
in a cross section like a wire crossing itself.   The first outer layer of 
the metal alloy, must be made of a magnetic material or monopolar material 
like mu metal which has a vortex or crossing metal wire in each microcell of 
the metal, to pull in the 4 dimensional gas and photonic cosmic energies.  

Then the next layer of the metal alloy, must be designed as a circuit layer 
in each microcel of the metal, to channel the 4 dimensional energies, like an 
antenna or raman photonic pump and circuit amplifier, to the proper 3D 
electrical frequencies for the atmosphere to create the antifriction and 
antigravity force fields from the 3D static electrical energies.  There must 
also be a sensor and tiny decision circuit in each micocel of the circuit 
layer of the metal, which is able to sense the atmosphere pressures, heat, 
gas and photonic cosmic energies of the local and global environments, to 
determine the ideal frequencies, intensities, and matrix of the 3D static 
electrical force fields to placed around the ship hull.   There can also be a 
tiny circuit and sensor which matches the frequencies of the human mind of 
most humans in each metal alloy cell, which are around 100hz, to allow a 
human operator or computer to change the gross variables in the circuits in 
the metal to stronger or lighter to increase or decreases the force field 
intensities gradually per the biofeedback of the human operators senses and 
mind frequencies. 

In addition to creating an antifriction and antigravity force field in the 
metal alloy, we can also create several additional metal alloy strips or 
layers with tiny nanotech circuits in each metal cell, which creates 
additional force fields around the ship such as a stealth force field which 
simply jams out all visible frequencies of photons with an interferometric 
array pattern matching the frequencies of visible light or the light to be 
jammed.  And we can also create a teleportation force field with a metal 
alloy strip which has a tiny ball matrix with 4 crossing circuits each 90 
degrees apart, to cancel out all of the 3D dimensional energies around the 
ship, with one of the circuits generating the frequencies of the atmosphere 
by using white noise, to allow the ship to teleport in the 4th dimension, 
which is steered to another 4th dimensional place by the human mind or an 
artificial computer image envisioning the location coordinates and 
holographic image in a 4d toroid map of the planet or universe.   An 
antimatter protonic force field to protect the ship from all forms of harmful 
directed energies, can also be placed around the ship with another metal 
alloy layer which is made of metal vortex circuits, that act as cyclotronic 
accelerators to collide protons with antiprotons around the ship in a force 
field pattern. 

The ships hull can be in the form of a rounded toroid, sphere, or a pyramid 
wedge, where each nanotech metal cell of the hull is made up of all of the 
metal alloy layers mentioned above, to create the natural force fields from 
the atmosphere mentioned above controlled by the frequencies of human mind or 
an artificial intelligent computer on the ship.  The ships shown on this list 
usually use a rounded pyramidal wedge formation. 

The ship should also have a double vacuum sealed and atmosphere tight inner 
shell, where the occupants live, which blocks out all heat but not light and 
radio waves and keeps the inner part of the ship's hull at the same 
temperature.  Plants and trees in hydroponic farms can create food and can be 
used in the ship as a biodome, to take in excess CO2 and water, and to create 
the needed oxygen for human respiration.

Baron Von Volsung, <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com\baron">www.rhfweb.com\baron</A>, Email: tom rhfweb.com
President Thomas D. Clark, tom rhfweb.com, <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com\personal">www.rhfweb.com\personal</A>
New Age Production's Inc., <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com\newage">www.rhfweb.com\newage</A>
Star Haven Community Services, at <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com\sh">www.rhfweb.com\sh</A>
Radiation Health Foundation Trust at <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com">www.rhfweb.com</A>


--part1_163.1f30d1c5.2bd468d4_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=
=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 4/20/2003 1:49:48 AM Eastern Daylig=
ht Time, thebishop usadatanet.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT=
: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">There may also be a way to fore=
go the need to electrify<BR>
the<BR>
&gt;&gt;ship's hull by centrifugally recirculating some of the working fluid=
<BR>
moving<BR>
&gt;&gt;through the inlet portion of the engine.&nbsp; </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
In order to get an airship with an air or gas shell to electrify itself, so=20=
as to create an antidrag or anti-friction and antigravity energy force field=
 around the hull of the ship, in all types of possible atmospheres which may=
 have a mixture of a gas and photonic cosmic 4 dimensional energies, you nee=
d to create a vortex or parametric nonlinear crossing formation in the metal=
 of the hull, to allow the metal of the hull to act like a sponge to pull in=
 the higher 4 dimensional cosmic, photonic, and gas energies in any atmosphe=
re.&nbsp; Once the metal formation, can pull in the gas and cosmic 4 dimensi=
onal energies from any atmosphere, then the metal in the hull must also redi=
rect the 4 dimensional energies, into a antifriction and antigravity force f=
ield around the ship hull, which is also dependent on the type of atmosphere=
 whether gas on a planet or in a vacuum in outer space, and the capacitance=20=
difference of the atmosphere on a planet or in outer space, which allows the=
 ship to resonate at the capacitance difference to levitate in the atmospher=
e.&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>
<BR>
The metal alloy and matrix formation of a metal alloy to achieve the above g=
oals can be designed on a computer model of a crystal matrix of the metals w=
hich are combined and made in many different layers of the metal and which a=
ct as nanotech circuits, and nanotech natural 4 dimensional cross vortexes a=
nd parametric nonlinear circuits that jam out lower 3D energies to pull in 4=
D energies.&nbsp;&nbsp; Then the metal alloy matrix formations are cast and=20=
formed by immersing the metals in a microwave image of the computer metal ma=
trix models, which forms the nanotech vortexes and circuit grooves in the me=
tal, just as Tesla energy plates are made.<BR>
<BR>
The designs of the nanotech vortex and parametric nonlinear crossing matrix=20=
circuits, collectors, and antigravity and antifriction force field matrix ci=
rcuits, can be designed just like any microchip or transistor, by using stan=
dard nonlinear electrical circuit designs and models created from different=20=
types of metals, and geometry's of the metals formed in a vortex or in a cro=
ss section like a wire crossing itself.&nbsp;&nbsp; The first outer layer of=
 the metal alloy, must be made of a magnetic material or monopolar material=20=
like mu metal which has a vortex or crossing metal wire in each microcell of=
 the metal, to pull in the 4 dimensional gas and photonic cosmic energies.&n=
bsp; <BR>
<BR>
Then the next layer of the metal alloy, must be designed as a circuit layer=20=
in each microcel of the metal, to channel the 4 dimensional energies, like a=
n antenna or raman photonic pump and circuit amplifier, to the proper 3D ele=
ctrical frequencies for the atmosphere to create the antifriction and antigr=
avity force fields from the 3D static electrical energies.&nbsp; There must=20=
also be a sensor and tiny decision circuit in each micocel of the circuit la=
yer of the metal, which is able to sense the atmosphere pressures, heat, gas=
 and photonic cosmic energies of the local and global environments, to deter=
mine the ideal frequencies, intensities, and matrix of the 3D static electri=
cal force fields to placed around the ship hull.&nbsp;&nbsp; There can also=20=
be a tiny circuit and sensor which matches the frequencies of the human mind=
 of most humans in each metal alloy cell, which are around 100hz, to allow a=
 human operator or computer to change the gross variables in the circuits in=
 the metal to stronger or lighter to increase or decreases the force field i=
ntensities gradually per the biofeedback of the human operators senses and m=
ind frequencies. <BR>
<BR>
In addition to creating an antifriction and antigravity force field in the m=
etal alloy, we can also create several additional metal alloy strips or laye=
rs with tiny nanotech circuits in each metal cell, which creates additional=20=
force fields around the ship such as a stealth force field which simply jams=
 out all visible frequencies of photons with an interferometric array patter=
n matching the frequencies of visible light or the light to be jammed.&nbsp;=
 And we can also create a teleportation force field with a metal alloy strip=
 which has a tiny ball matrix with 4 crossing circuits each 90 degrees apart=
, to cancel out all of the 3D dimensional energies around the ship, with one=
 of the circuits generating the frequencies of the atmosphere by using white=
 noise, to allow the ship to teleport in the 4th dimension, which is steered=
 to another 4th dimensional place by the human mind or an artificial compute=
r image envisioning the location coordinates and holographic image in a 4d t=
oroid map of the planet or universe.&nbsp;&nbsp; An antimatter protonic forc=
e field to protect the ship from all forms of harmful directed energies, can=
 also be placed around the ship with another metal alloy layer which is made=
 of metal vortex circuits, that act as cyclotronic accelerators to collide p=
rotons with antiprotons around the ship in a force field pattern. <BR>
<BR>
The ships hull can be in the form of a rounded toroid, sphere, or a pyramid=20=
wedge, where each nanotech metal cell of the hull is made up of all of the m=
etal alloy layers mentioned above, to create the natural force fields from t=
he atmosphere mentioned above controlled by the frequencies of human mind or=
 an artificial intelligent computer on the ship.&nbsp; The ships shown on th=
is list usually use a rounded pyramidal wedge formation. <BR>
<BR>
The ship should also have a double vacuum sealed and atmosphere tight inner=20=
shell, where the occupants live, which blocks out all heat but not light and=
 radio waves and keeps the inner part of the ship's hull at the same tempera=
ture.&nbsp; Plants and trees in hydroponic farms can create food and can be=20=
used in the ship as a biodome, to take in excess CO2 and water, and to creat=
e the needed oxygen for human respiration.<BR>
<BR>
Baron Von Volsung, <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\baron">www.rhfweb.com\baron</A>=
, Email: tom rhfweb.com<BR>
President Thomas D. Clark, tom rhfweb.com, <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\persona=
l">www.rhfweb.com\personal</A><BR>
New Age Production's Inc., <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\newage">www.rhfweb.com\=
newage</A><BR>
Star Haven Community Services, at <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\sh">www.rhfweb.c=
om\sh</A><BR>
Radiation Health Foundation Trust at <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com">www.rhfweb.c=
om</A><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_163.1f30d1c5.2bd468d4_boundary--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Apr 20 17:27:13 2003
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Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 19:27:17 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Re: VOTE FOR AMASCI.COM
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I visited the website and attempted to vote, but it wouldn't accept 
my email address, what's with that?

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Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 02:02:07 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Re: [plasmajet] Thoughts on the helicoid engine chamber concept
 etc
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>In a message dated 4/20/2003 1:49:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
>thebishop usadatanet.net writes:
>
>>There may also be a way to forego the need to electrify
>>the
>>>>ship's hull by centrifugally recirculating some of the working fluid
>>moving
>>>>through the inlet portion of the engine.
>>
>
>
>In order to get an airship with an air or gas shell to electrify 
>itself, so as to create an antidrag or

>atmospheres which may have a mixture of a gas and photonic cosmic 4 
>dimensional energies, you

You know Baron, this is supposed to be a science discussion group, 
not a bull session for science fiction writers.

>need to create a vortex or parametric nonlinear crossing formation 
>in the metal of the hull, to allow the metal of the hull to act like 
>a sponge to pull in the higher 4 dimensional cosmic, photonic, and 
>gas

You want to do what?

>energies in any atmosphere.  Once the metal formation, can pull in 
>the gas and cosmic 4 dimensional energies from any atmosphere, then 
>the metal in the hull must also redirect the 4 dimensional

The metal is going to pull energy out of the air? How do you propose 
to do that?

>difference of the atmosphere on a planet or in outer space, which 
>allows the ship to resonate at the capacitance difference to 
>levitate in the atmosphere. 

It's going to resonate at what?

>
>
>The metal alloy and matrix formation of a metal alloy to achieve the 
>above goals can be designed on a computer model of a crystal matrix 
>of the metals which are combined and made in many different

Do you have any idea about the chemical composition of these alloys?

>layers of the metal and which act as nanotech circuits, and nanotech 
>natural 4 dimensional cross vortexes and parametric nonlinear 
>circuits that jam out lower 3D energies to pull in 4D energies. 
>Then the metal alloy matrix formations are cast and formed by 
>immersing the metals in a microwave image of

So, your going to inscribe this alloy with these designs which act 
like antenna for these energies?

>the computer metal matrix models, which forms the nanotech vortexes 
>and circuit grooves in the metal, just as Tesla energy plates are 
>made.

Hum, Tesla energy plates, are you referring to those purple plates 
that are supposed to capture takyon energy, are you?

>
>The designs of the nanotech vortex and parametric nonlinear crossing 
>matrix circuits, collectors, and antigravity and antifriction force 
>field matrix circuits, can be designed just like any microchip or

I suppose it would, if you could get it to work.



The first outer layer of the metal alloy, must be made of a magnetic 
material or monopolar material like mu metal which has a vortex or 
crossing metal wire in each microcell of the
>metal, to pull in the 4 dimensional gas and photonic cosmic energies. 

Hum, Mu metal I know about. it blocks magnetic force. This is the 
first time that I've heard it referred to as monopolar.

>
>Then the next layer of the metal alloy, must be designed as a 
>circuit layer in each microcel of the metal, to channel the 4 
>dimensional energies, like an antenna or raman photonic pump and 
>circuit

Hum, nice if you can get it to work?

>mind of most humans in each metal alloy cell, which are around 
>100hz, to allow a human operator or computer to change the gross 
>variables in the circuits in the metal to stronger or lighter to 
>increase or

That would be even better than that think and control the direction 
the airplane goes thing that John Scheuner built.

>light or the light to be jammed.  And we can also create a 
>teleportation force field with a metal alloy strip which has a tiny 
>ball matrix with 4 crossing circuits each 90 degrees apart, to 
>cancel out all of the

Teleportation, eh. sounds like Star Treck.

>location coordinates and holographic image in a 4d toroid map of the 
>planet or universe.   An antimatter protonic force field to protect 
>the ship from all forms of harmful directed energies, can also

Antimatter protonc force field eh? Do you know of a source for this 
material? I suppose I could look in the Yellow Pages it should be 
right after antennas, and right before antique dealers.

>be placed around the ship with another metal alloy layer which is 
>made of metal vortex circuits, that act as cyclotronic accelerators 
>to collide protons with antiprotons around the ship in a force field 
>pattern.

Wow, how do you build one of these cyclotronic accelerators? or does 
this effect just happen when you build a vehicle out of the 
aforementioned alloy and inscribe it properly?

>mind or an artificial intelligent computer on the ship.  The ships 
>shown on this list usually use a rounded pyramidal wedge formation.

Wow, a rounded pyramidal wedge, I wonder what that would look like?

>
>The ship should also have a double vacuum sealed and atmosphere 
>tight inner shell, where the occupants live, which blocks out all 
>heat but not light and radio waves and keeps the inner part of the

That's generally a good idea when you are going into space.

>ship's hull at the same temperature.  Plants and trees in hydroponic 
>farms can create food and can be used in the ship as a biodome, to 
>take in excess CO2 and water, and to create the needed oxygen for 
>human respiration.

I assume you are aware that NASA has been unable to grow plants in 
zero gravity?

I'm I just under educated? I have no clue how to do any of this, does 
anyone else other than the Baron understand how to do this?

Did you write this, Tom. If you did, IMHO, you have a bright future 
in science fiction.
--============_-1161213957==_ma============
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<html><head><style type="text/css"><!--
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { padding-top: 0 ; padding-bottom: 0 }
 --></style><title>Re: [plasmajet] Thoughts on the helicoid engine
chambe</title></head><body>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1">In a message
dated 4/20/2003 1:49:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
thebishop usadatanet.net writes:</font><br>
<font face="Arial" size="-1"></font>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1">There may
also be a way to forego the need to electrify<br>
the<br>
&gt;&gt;ship's hull by centrifugally recirculating some of the working
fluid<br>
moving<br>
&gt;&gt;through the inlet portion of the engine.</font><br>
<font face="Arial" size="-1"></font></blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"><br>
<br>
</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1">In order to
get an airship with an air or gas shell to electrify itself, so as to
create an antidrag or</font></blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1">atmospheres
which may have a mixture of a gas and photonic cosmic 4 dimensional
energies, you</font></blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>You know Baron, this is supposed to be a science discussion
group, not a bull session for science fiction writers.</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1">need to
create a vortex or parametric nonlinear crossing formation in the
metal of the hull, to allow the metal of the hull to act like a sponge
to pull in the higher 4 dimensional cosmic, photonic, and
gas</font></blockquote>
<div><br>
You want to do what?<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1">energies in
any atmosphere.&nbsp; Once the metal formation, can pull in the gas
and cosmic 4 dimensional energies from any atmosphere, then the metal
in the hull must also redirect the 4 dimensional</font></blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>The metal is going to pull energy out of the air? How do you
propose to do that?</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1">difference
of the atmosphere on a planet or in outer space, which allows the ship
to resonate at the capacitance difference to levitate in the
atmosphere.&nbsp;</font></blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>It's going to resonate at what?</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial"
size="-1">&nbsp;</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"><br>
The metal alloy and matrix formation of a metal alloy to achieve the
above goals can be designed on a computer model of a crystal matrix of
the metals which are combined and made in many
different</font></blockquote>
<div><br>
Do you have any idea about the chemical composition of these
alloys?<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1">layers of
the metal and which act as nanotech circuits, and nanotech natural 4
dimensional cross vortexes and parametric nonlinear circuits that jam
out lower 3D energies to pull in 4D energies.&nbsp;&nbsp; Then the
metal alloy matrix formations are cast and formed by immersing the
metals in a microwave image of</font></blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>So, your going to inscribe this alloy with these designs which
act like antenna for these energies?</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1">the computer
metal matrix models, which forms the nanotech vortexes and circuit
grooves in the metal, just as Tesla energy plates are
made.</font></blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>Hum, Tesla energy plates, are you referring to those purple
plates that are supposed to capture takyon energy, are you?</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"><br>
The designs of the nanotech vortex and parametric nonlinear crossing
matrix circuits, collectors, and antigravity and antifriction force
field matrix circuits, can be designed just like any microchip
or</font></blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>I suppose it would, if you could get it to work.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="-1"><br></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="-1"><br></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="-1">The first outer layer of the metal
alloy, must be made of a magnetic material or monopolar material like
mu metal which has a vortex or crossing metal wire in each microcell
of the</font></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1">metal, to
pull in the 4 dimensional gas and photonic cosmic
energies.&nbsp;</font></blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>Hum, Mu metal I know about. it blocks magnetic force. This is the
first time that I've heard it referred to as monopolar.</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial"
size="-1"><br></font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1">Then the
next layer of the metal alloy, must be designed as a circuit layer in
each microcel of the metal, to channel the 4 dimensional energies,
like an antenna or raman photonic pump and circuit</font></blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>Hum, nice if you can get it to work?</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1">mind of most
humans in each metal alloy cell, which are around 100hz, to allow a
human operator or computer to change the gross variables in the
circuits in the metal to stronger or lighter to increase
or</font></blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>That would be even better than that think and control the
direction the airplane goes thing that John Scheuner built.</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1">light or the
light to be jammed.&nbsp; And we can also create a teleportation force
field with a metal alloy strip which has a tiny ball matrix with 4
crossing circuits each 90 degrees apart, to cancel out all of
the</font></blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>Teleportation, eh. sounds like Star Treck.<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1">location
coordinates and holographic image in a 4d toroid map of the planet or
universe.&nbsp;&nbsp; An antimatter protonic force field to protect
the ship from all forms of harmful directed energies, can
also</font></blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>Antimatter protonc force field eh? Do you know of a source for
this material? I suppose I could look in the Yellow Pages it should be
right after antennas, and right before antique dealers.</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1">be placed
around the ship with another metal alloy layer which is made of metal
vortex circuits, that act as cyclotronic accelerators to collide
protons with antiprotons around the ship in a force field
pattern.</font></blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>Wow, how do you build one of these cyclotronic accelerators? or
does this effect just happen when you build a vehicle out of the
aforementioned alloy and inscribe it properly?</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1">mind or an
artificial intelligent computer on the ship.&nbsp; The ships shown on
this list usually use a rounded pyramidal wedge
formation.</font></blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>Wow, a rounded pyramidal wedge, I wonder what that would look
like?</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial"
size="-1"><br></font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1">The ship
should also have a double vacuum sealed and atmosphere tight inner
shell, where the occupants live, which blocks out all heat but not
light and radio waves and keeps the inner part of
the</font></blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>That's generally a good idea when you are going into space.</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1">ship's hull
at the same temperature.&nbsp; Plants and trees in hydroponic farms
can create food and can be used in the ship as a biodome, to take in
excess CO2 and water, and to create the needed oxygen for human
respiration.</font></blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>I assume you are aware that NASA has been unable to grow plants
in zero gravity?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>I'm I just under educated? I have no clue how to do any of this,
does anyone else other than the Baron understand how to do this?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Did you write this, Tom. If you did, IMHO, you have a bright
future in science fiction.</div>
</body>
</html>
--============_-1161213957==_ma============--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 21 07:25:16 2003
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Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 10:23:51 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell mindspring.com>
Subject: Record week at LENR-CANR
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Last week was a new record for LENR-CANR downloads and visits, with 7059 
downloads and 2211 visits. I have not added many new files lately so I do 
not know what has caused this increased traffic. Perhaps it is a delayed 
effect from the New Scientist article.

The grand total is just over 72,000 papers downloaded.

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 21 08:22:48 2003
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Subject: OFF TOPIC Traffic control in London greatly improved
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Smart tolls have greatly reduced traffic in London. See:

The Day the Traffic Disappeared

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/20/magazine/20TRAFFIC.html

QUOTES:

. . . Almost anyone who drove across the line during business hours -- in 
fact, almost anyone who moved or even parked a car on the street within it 
after Feb. 17 -- instantly owed the city of London L5 (about $8) a day for 
every day it happened. If a driver failed to pay, one of more than 700 
vulturelike video cameras perched throughout the zone would capture his 
license plate number and relay it to a computer, leading to a huge fine. . 
. .  Few would be exempt, not even volunteer social workers, teachers, 
foreign diplomats or undercover police officers.

The idea behind his assault on automotive freedom was neither new nor very 
hard to understand. If a finite resource is free, human beings tend to use 
it all up, regardless of the consequences. If it has a cost, they tend to 
use it more rationally . . .

The number of cars entering the cordon zone the day before, the first day 
of the charge, dropped by about 60,000, remarkable even in the context of a 
school holiday. One automobile group estimated that average speeds in 
central London had doubled, nothing less than a miracle in the world of 
road policy. . . .


- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 21 08:59:34 2003
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Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 11:58:41 -0400
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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell mindspring.com>
Subject: SARS statistics not accurate yet
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This article has some important points about SARS statistics:

http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,58552,00.html

Briefly, it is much too early in the epidemic to judge the fatality rate, 
for several reasons. For example, at present there are 3,461 infections and 
170 deaths, but many of the infected people are still sick and may yet die. 
Also there are puzzling differences in the fatality rate in different 
countries.

This is a good example of why one should not jump to conclusions early in a 
scientific study.

It is fascinating to see the mass media reporting and the evolving public 
reaction to SARS. On the whole I think it has been sensible and accurate. I 
wish people had reacted to cold fusion this way.

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 21 10:24:19 2003
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Subject: RE: SARS statistics not accurate yet
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 13:38:57 -0400
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Yep, there's a reason for that...

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101030428-444980,00.html

"Across China's capital last week, officials went to
extraordinary lengths to conceal SARS patients from WHO inspectors. A
doctor at the No. 309 People's Liberation Army Hospital says 46 patients
were pulled out of their beds and moved to a hotel on the hospital grounds
just
before the WHO team got there. At the No. 302 People's Liberation Army
Hospital, where two wards had been filled to capacity, only a handful of the
ailing were on site for the WHO visit."

They've been treating this epidemic in the same
fashion they're treated the aids epidemic. I guess we
now know the whereabouts of Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf,
he's now the Chinese national minister of health.

The "new" government has struck a more reasonable posture
today, rolling some heads and acknowledging the scope
of the problem. But the cows have left the barn, at
least in China.

K.



-----Original Message-----
From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:JedRothwell mindspring.com]
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 11:59 AM
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
Subject: SARS statistics not accurate yet


This article has some important points about SARS statistics:

http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,58552,00.html

Briefly, it is much too early in the epidemic to judge the fatality rate,
for several reasons. For example, at present there are 3,461 infections and
170 deaths, but many of the infected people are still sick and may yet die.
Also there are puzzling differences in the fatality rate in different
countries.

This is a good example of why one should not jump to conclusions early in a
scientific study.

It is fascinating to see the mass media reporting and the evolving public
reaction to SARS. On the whole I think it has been sensible and accurate. I
wish people had reacted to cold fusion this way.

- Jed



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 21 11:45:48 2003
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Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 14:03:15 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: SARS statistics not accurate yet
In-Reply-To: <NDBBLHBMKKFMAIAFAAKMOEGGDJAA.knagel gis.net>
References: <5.2.0.9.2.20030421115221.00aa6860 pop.mindspring.com>
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Keith Nagel wrote:

>Yep, there's a reason for that...
>
>http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101030428-444980,00.html
>
>"Across China's capital last week, officials went to
>extraordinary lengths to conceal SARS patients from WHO inspectors. . . .

That is another story. It is important. It is infuriating! But the Wired 
article I referenced came out before the Chinese revelations. It describes 
inaccuracies caused by other problems, such as bad statistical technique 
and honest mistakes. The main mistake is that people compute the death rate as:

170 dead / 3,461 = 5%

. . . but many of those 3,461 are still sick and may yet die. One months 
from now, you will be able to take:

Number of people dead on April 21 / number who had the disease on April 21 
but fully recovered = death rate

You could do that for the numbers as of March 21, since most people either 
recover or die after a month. But the March 21 sample was too small, and 
the disease was not yet well defined then.

A similar widespread mistake is to take present-day longevity and to make 
conclusions about present-day diets or behavior based upon it. For example, 
the mass media often says that Americans live longer than ever so our diet 
must be healthy. Most people dying today established their diets and food 
habits in the 1920s and thirties, and I do not think they changed them 
much. My mother probably never ate at McDonald's in her life. The older 
cohort I knew did not have "healthy eating habits" by present day 
standards. They ate lots of meat and eggs for example, yet they lived well 
into their 80s. For all we know, present-day children and baby boomer 
adults may drop dead 10 years sooner than today's elderly people -- or they 
may live longer.

We can, of course, draw conclusions about the effects of present-day diets 
on present-day health. For example, people who eat a lot of fast food are 
often obese. It is reasonable to guess they will remain obese and die 
young, but that is not yet an established fact.

Many researchers conclude that Japanese diets are more healthy than 
American ones because Japanese people are thinner and they live longer. 
However Japanese diets changed radically after 1945, and many old Japanese 
people who are dying today ate pre-war diets all their lives. (All of the 
ones I know personally did.) We cannot draw many conclusions about postwar 
and present-day Japanese diets, except to observe that they seem to keep 
present day middle-aged Japanese people thinner than middle-aged Americans. 
I suspect Japanese people are thin mainly because of transportation, not 
food. They walk and ride buses and trains more often than Americans.

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 21 12:19:42 2003
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Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 15:17:01 -0400
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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: SARS statistics . . . oops
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030421135931.02831a00 pop.mindspring.com>
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I wrote:

>The main mistake is that people compute the death rate as:
>
>170 dead / 3,461 = 5%
>
>. . . but many of those 3,461 are still sick and may yet die. One months 
>from now, you will be able to take:
>
>Number of people dead on April 21 / number who had the disease on April 21 
>but fully recovered = death rate

Oops. That's not right either. I meant:

Number of people dead as of April 21 + Number who were sick that day and 
subsequently died / Number who were or had been sick on April 21 = death rate

The revelations from Beijing are awful, but the death rate from the newly 
revealed cases seems to be about the same as for previously known cases, so 
this will have little impact on the death rate estimates. The N. Y. Times 
says: "The new numbers bring the total of confirmed cases on mainland China 
as of Friday to 1,807 -- the highest of any country. Of these, 79 have 
ended in death." That's ~4% dead, including patients who are still sick, 
which is about the same as the world average and the previous Chinese average.

Of course it may be they are hiding lots of other deaths, but such new 
revelations would be yet another story.

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 21 13:48:49 2003
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Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 15:47:04 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Re: By Design
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<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<html><head><style type="text/css"><!--
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { padding-top: 0 ; padding-bottom: 0 }
 --></style><title>Re: By Design</title></head><body>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"><br>
<br>
Here is synopsis article on the Black Whole Sun Theory.</font><br>
<font face="Arial" size="-1"></font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><a
href="http://www.rfsafe.net/ad.htm"><font face="Arial"
size="-1">http://www.rfsafe.net/ad.htm</font></a></blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>I saw a website selling devices to prevent cell phone radiation.
Did you paste in the wrong URL. I sure would appreciate some of you
Vortexians weighing in on this thread, especially somebody who knows
something like Hamdi, Ed Storms, or von Spaarondonk. I want to know
what the evidence there is for nuclear reactions on the Sun.</div>
</body>
</html>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 21 15:35:59 2003
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Subject: Ice-2-ICE, further speculations
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Water-Fuel, the hydrino, Ice-to-ICE, and Rapid Sublimation

Can the rapid sublimation of ice into steam be incorporated into the =
mechanics of a source of free energy extraction - particularly in a =
converted piston engine- or ICE (internal combustion engine) - an engine =
which is optimized, using low pressure electrolysis to capture =
"beta-aether" energy, with only water and an electric field as "fuel"?=20

If so, how does the "hydrino," or below-ground-state hydrogen, become =
involved in the mechanics of this compound process?

First, please have a look at this graphic representation of exploding =
water - an "Ice Bomb" (or do a Google search for "Ice Bomb" if you want =
more details).=20
http://genchem.chem.wisc.edu/demonstrations/Gen_Chem_Pages/10liquidsnsoli=
dpage/ice_bomb.htm

The ice bomb explosion shown here is not particularly violent but it =
does fracture an iron sphere - it is offered as a metaphor for the more =
numerous mini-ice-bombs that result when water vapor, entrained in the =
air intake of an ICE (internal combustion engine) is made to explode. =
Every mole of water (18 grams) can contain as many as 10^18 of these =
mini-bombs that sublimate into gas, expanding to 1000 times their =
previous volume at relatively low temperature, driving the piston of the =
ICE, while at the same time, seemingly circumventing normal =
thermodynamic "laws".=20

After all, how can water itself be used as fuel, if not through some =
very complex mechanism that has previously defied all efforts to either =
explain or to maximize? When electrolyzed at high efficiency, water =
normally could provide about 20% of the hydrogen that would be needed to =
self-sustain the operation of the engine. Where is the other 80% coming =
from?

This speculation assumes that there exists in nature a robust source of =
untapped pressure at the nanoscale level called the beta-aether. The =
Casimir force, and the Van der Waals force and ZPE are other =
better-known names for the phenomenon. See Frank Grimer, "Infinite =
Energy" Issue 46, page 28, which focuses on cold fusion, but  - the same =
ductile failure mechanism of his CF mechanics should to be at work when =
spheres of water ice explode through an imposed rapid phase change.

This speculation also assumes that nascent hydrogen, i.e a bare proton =
just as it is split-off from a water molecule, can under certain =
circumstances be induced to give up far more energy than it does in =
normal combustion, by dropping below the normal ground state, =
transferring a high energy UV photon in the process. The hydrino forming =
process may also be the consequence and end-result of beta-aether =
pressure combined with partial-vacuum electrolysis. This idea goes way =
beyond Randell Mills' CQM theory, but accepts the reality of the =
hydrino, which has enough electron affinity to either form a hydride =
having an ionization energy of about .7 eV, or far more likely, to bond =
to the negative polar end of a water molecule, giving a hydronium =
molecule, H2O-Hy which is closer to a true *molecule,* than an ion, and =
which is stable to .7 eV.=20

The photon emitted is the just the right energy to be immediately =
recaptured, so the process can repeat itself several times, but there =
are enough losses that the mechanism cannot be a self-sustaining chain =
reaction. BUT the beauty of this proposed mechanism is that phase change =
can occur at two different locations in a converted ICE: first in the =
electrolysis chamber and secondly in the combustion chamber itself, =
using the two different phase changes of H2O. In both locations we find =
the two needed ingredients for the anomaly: water phase change and an =
electric field.

As mentioned, once electrolysis begins AT A PARTIAL VACUUM, some few =
hydrinos will be formed. The UV photons emitted are just at the right =
energy to be absorbed by water vapor to split off more protons, to =
repeat the process whenever three nascent protons are juxtaposed. This =
reaction and others goes on in the electrolysis cell, adjacent to the =
intake port. Immediately after intake, in the combustion chamber, when a =
spark or other arc discharge ignites the hydronium + hydrogen peroxide + =
O2 which has previously been created in the electrolysis chamber, then =
more hydrinos and more UV can be created and subsequently absorbed by =
the "mini-ice-bombs," accelerating their expansion at a rate that is in =
keeping with the several thousand RPMs of an ICE (normally, the =
expansion reaction would be too slow).  The end result is that =
beta-aether is the ultimate cause of all the extra energy, both in the =
hydrino formation and in the ice sublimation, though it may appear that =
hydrinos are the proximate cause of any excess energy.

Under certain circumstances, then, this UV radiation from hydrino =
formation is adequate to accelerate the rapid heating of a solid, such =
as finely divided water-ice so that it sublimates very quickly with =
cavitation effects. In the process, pressure is converted into =
mechanical energy by means of a resultant high-ratio expansion of a =
solid into a gas to drive a piston or turbine.

Water is unique in that upon turning from a liquid to a solid, it =
expands rather than contracts. The resultant solid may then be =
immediately self-stressed into "triaxial tension" but not in a planar =
form. In a 3-D sphere of optimum dimensions, probably a few thousand to =
a few hundred thousand molecules, the beta-aether ZPE pressure which =
holds the ice crystal together and gives it strength, is stressed by =
rising external pressure in the combustion chamber and/or by the =
absorption of a UV photon. Something has to give. The end result is a =
large number of concurrent micro- explosions and the creation of several =
thousand p.s.i. to push a piston.

IMPORTANCE OF MOLE-VOLUME AND PHASE CHANGE

A mole is a unit containing Avagadro's number of particles, =
approximately 6 x 10^23. Equal moles of ANY gas at the same temperature =
and pressure contain equal volume of gas - at STP, it is 22.4 liters.  =
For example, at STP, one mole of oxygen takes up the volume of 22.4 =
liters as does one mole of CO2 or one mole of hydrogen, even though the =
molecular weight of the hydrogen is over twenty time less, and the flame =
spread speed is twenty times higher.=20

Of course two moles of any gas at STP take up the volume of 44.8 liters. =
To find the number of moles in another phase, divide the sample mass by =
its molecular mass. For example 36 grams of water is 2 moles of water =
because 36 (sample mass) divided by 18 (molecular weight of water) is 2. =
 So 36 grams of H2O will give you about 45 liters of gas at STP but one =
kg of H2O is equal to about one liter so the expansion ratio is 1000/36 =
* 45 =3D 1250 but in actuality, since steam requires temperature above =
STP the expansion ratio is usually said to be 1000:1.

Now, consider the implications of "Dry Ice Blasting." Dry ice blasting =
is similar to sand blasting, but solid carbon dioxide (CO2) is =
accelerated in a pressurized air stream to impact a surface. One unique =
aspect of using dry ice particles is that the particles sublimate =
(vaporize) upon impact with the surface. The gas expands to eight =
hundred times the volume of the solid in a few milliseconds in what is =
effectively a "micro-explosion" at the point of impact. This is not =
evidence of OU or ZPE coherence.  It is mentioned only because it points =
towards the proven methodology of converting small amounts of heat into =
larger amounts of usable energy - even at extremely low overall =
temperatures. And when you substitute *water-ice* micro-spheres for dry =
ice, you get an expansion ratio that is 25% greater (i.e. 1000:1 rather =
than 800:1, PLUS a much higher critical pressure - over 3 times higher)

Excuse the long-winded discourse, but as you can see, it is both =
complex, overunity, and pretty far out there on the fringe...and though =
this particular explanation is very new  - the numerous claims of auto =
engines running on water are far from new, and in fact, these claims =
have been around for at least fifty years but recently seem to be on the =
rise, so we may be on the cusp of - not just a new meme, but a new =
paradigm in energy conversion.=20

Experimental validation is needed from a top-level lab, of course, but =
keep your eyes on the small inventor.  I believe the garage inventor, =
probably overseas and most likely in Germany, combined with the *power =
of the internet* to disseminate arcane speculation, such as the above, =
will be the key to this fast-approaching paradigm-shift...

...and that will be a story in itself! I just hope some necessary part =
of the puzzle doesn't get lost (because of greed) along the way...

Jones=20

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	charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"><BASE=20
href=3D"file://C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft =
Shared\Stationery\">
<STYLE>BODY {
	BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; MARGIN-TOP: 25px; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; =
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<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Water-Fuel, the hydrino, Ice-to-ICE,&nbsp;and Rapid =
Sublimation<BR><BR>Can=20
the rapid sublimation of ice into steam be incorporated into the =
mechanics of a=20
source of free energy extraction - particularly in a converted piston =
engine- or=20
ICE (internal combustion engine) - an engine which is optimized, using =
low=20
pressure electrolysis&nbsp;to capture "beta-aether"&nbsp;energy, with =
only water=20
and an electric field as "fuel"? </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>If so, how does the "hydrino," or below-ground-state hydrogen, =
become=20
involved in the mechanics of&nbsp;this compound process?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>First,&nbsp;please have a look at this graphic representation of =
exploding=20
water&nbsp;- an "Ice Bomb"&nbsp;(or do a Google search for "Ice Bomb" if =
you=20
want more details). </DIV>
<DIV><A=20
href=3D"http://genchem.chem.wisc.edu/demonstrations/Gen_Chem_Pages/10liqu=
idsnsolidpage/ice_bomb.htm">http://genchem.chem.wisc.edu/demonstrations/G=
en_Chem_Pages/10liquidsnsolidpage/ice_bomb.htm</A><BR><BR>The=20
ice bomb explosion shown here is not particularly violent but it does =
fracture=20
an iron sphere - it is offered as a metaphor for the more numerous=20
mini-ice-bombs that result when water vapor, entrained in the air intake =
of an=20
ICE (internal combustion engine) is made to explode. Every mole of water =
(18=20
grams) can contain as many as 10^18 of these mini-bombs that sublimate =
into gas,=20
expanding to 1000 times their previous volume at relatively low =
temperature,=20
driving the piston of the ICE, while at the same time, seemingly =
circumventing=20
normal thermodynamic "laws". </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>After all, how can water itself be used as fuel, if =
not&nbsp;through some=20
very complex mechanism that has previously defied all efforts to either =
explain=20
or to maximize? When electrolyzed at&nbsp;high efficiency, =
water&nbsp;normally=20
could provide about 20% of the hydrogen that would be needed to =
self-sustain the=20
operation of the engine. Where is the other 80% coming from?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>This speculation assumes that&nbsp;there exists in nature a robust =
source=20
of untapped pressure at the nanoscale level called the =
beta-aether.&nbsp;The=20
Casimir force, and the Van der Waals force and ZPE&nbsp;are other =
better-known=20
names&nbsp;for the phenomenon. See Frank Grimer, "Infinite Energy" Issue =
46,=20
page 28, which focuses on cold fusion, but&nbsp; - the same ductile =
failure=20
mechanism of his CF mechanics should to be at work when spheres of water =
ice=20
explode through an imposed rapid phase change.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>This speculation&nbsp;also assumes that nascent hydrogen, i.e a =
bare proton=20
just as it is split-off from a water molecule, can&nbsp;under certain=20
circumstances be induced to give up far more energy than it does in =
normal=20
combustion, by dropping below the normal ground state, transferring a =
high=20
energy UV photon in the process. The hydrino forming process may also=20
be&nbsp;the consequence and end-result of beta-aether pressure combined =
with=20
partial-vacuum&nbsp;electrolysis. This idea goes way beyond Randell =
Mills' CQM=20
theory, but accepts the reality of the hydrino, which&nbsp;has enough =
electron=20
affinity to either form a hydride having an ionization energy of about =
.7 eV, or=20
far more likely, to bond to the negative polar end of a water molecule, =
giving a=20
hydronium molecule,&nbsp;H2O-Hy&nbsp;which is closer to a&nbsp;true =
*molecule,*=20
than an ion, and which is stable to .7 eV.&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The photon emitted is the just the right energy to&nbsp;be =
immediately=20
recaptured, so the process can repeat itself several times, but there =
are enough=20
losses that the mechanism cannot be a self-sustaining chain reaction. =
BUT the=20
beauty of this proposed mechanism is that phase change can occur at two=20
different locations in a converted ICE: first in the electrolysis =
chamber and=20
secondly in the combustion chamber itself, using the two different phase =
changes=20
of H2O. In both locations we find the two needed ingredients for the =
anomaly:=20
water phase change and an electric field.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>As mentioned, once electrolysis begins AT A PARTIAL VACUUM, some =
few=20
hydrinos will be formed. The UV photons&nbsp;emitted are&nbsp;just at =
the right=20
energy to be absorbed by water vapor to split off more protons, to =
repeat the=20
process&nbsp;whenever three nascent protons are juxtaposed. This =
reaction and=20
others goes on in the electrolysis cell, adjacent to the intake port.=20
Immediately after intake, in the combustion chamber, when a spark or =
other arc=20
discharge ignites the&nbsp;hydronium +&nbsp;hydrogen peroxide + O2 which =
has=20
previously been created in the electrolysis chamber, then more hydrinos =
and more=20
UV can be created and subsequently absorbed&nbsp;by the =
"mini-ice-bombs,"=20
accelerating their expansion at a rate that is in keeping with the =
several=20
thousand RPMs of an ICE (normally, the expansion reaction would be too=20
slow).&nbsp; The end result is that beta-aether is the ultimate cause of =
all the=20
extra energy, both&nbsp;in the hydrino formation and in the ice =
sublimation,=20
though it may appear that hydrinos are the proximate cause of any excess =

energy.</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Under certain circumstances, then, this UV radiation from =
hydrino=20
formation is adequate to accelerate the rapid heating of a solid, such =
as finely=20
divided water-ice so that it sublimates very quickly with cavitation =
effects. In=20
the process, pressure is converted into mechanical energy by means of a=20
resultant high-ratio expansion of a solid into a gas to drive a piston =
or=20
turbine.<BR><BR>Water is unique in that upon turning from a liquid to a =
solid,=20
it expands rather than contracts.&nbsp;The resultant solid may then be=20
immediately self-stressed into "triaxial tension" but not in a planar =
form. In a=20
3-D sphere of optimum dimensions, probably a few thousand to a few =
hundred=20
thousand molecules, the beta-aether ZPE pressure which holds the ice =
crystal=20
together and gives it strength, is stressed by rising external pressure =
in the=20
combustion chamber and/or by the absorption of a UV photon. Something =
has to=20
give. The end result is&nbsp;a large number of concurrent&nbsp;micro- =
explosions=20
and the creation of several thousand&nbsp;p.s.i. to push a piston.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>IMPORTANCE OF MOLE-VOLUME AND PHASE CHANGE</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>A mole is a unit containing Avagadro's number of particles, =
approximately 6=20
x 10^23. Equal moles of ANY gas at the same temperature and pressure =
contain=20
equal&nbsp;volume of gas&nbsp;-&nbsp;at STP, it is 22.4 liters.&nbsp; =
For=20
example, at STP, one mole of oxygen takes up the volume of 22.4 liters =
as does=20
one mole of CO2 or one mole of hydrogen, even though the molecular =
weight of the=20
hydrogen&nbsp;is over twenty time less, and the flame spread speed is =
twenty=20
times higher. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Of course two moles of any gas at STP take up the volume of 44.8 =
liters. To=20
find the number of moles in another phase, divide the sample mass by its =

molecular mass. For example 36 grams of water is 2 moles of water =
because 36=20
(sample mass) divided by 18 (molecular weight of water) is 2.&nbsp; So =
36 grams=20
of H2O will give you about 45 liters of gas at STP but one kg of H2O is =
equal to=20
about one liter so the expansion ratio is 1000/36 * 45 =3D 1250 but in =
actuality,=20
since steam requires temperature above STP the expansion ratio is =
usually said=20
to be 1000:1.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Now, consider the implications of "Dry Ice Blasting." Dry ice =
blasting is=20
similar to sand blasting, but solid carbon dioxide (CO2) is accelerated =
in a=20
pressurized air stream to impact a surface. One unique aspect of using =
dry ice=20
particles is that the particles sublimate (vaporize) upon impact with =
the=20
surface. The gas expands to eight hundred times the volume of the solid =
in a few=20
milliseconds in what is effectively a "micro-explosion" at the point of =
impact.=20
This is not evidence of OU or ZPE coherence.&nbsp; It is mentioned only =
because=20
it points towards&nbsp;the proven methodology of converting small =
amounts of=20
heat into larger amounts of usable energy -&nbsp;even at extremely low =
overall=20
temperatures. And when you substitute *water-ice* micro-spheres for dry =
ice, you=20
get an expansion ratio that is 25% greater (i.e. 1000:1 rather than =
800:1, PLUS=20
a much higher critical pressure - over 3 times higher)</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Excuse the long-winded discourse, but as you can see, it is =
both=20
complex, overunity, and pretty far out there on the fringe...and though =
this=20
particular&nbsp;explanation is very new&nbsp; - the numerous claims of =
auto=20
engines running on water are far from new, and in fact, these claims =
have been=20
around for at least fifty years but recently seem to be on the rise, so =
we may=20
be on the cusp of - not just a new meme, but a new =
paradigm&nbsp;in&nbsp;energy=20
conversion. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Experimental validation is needed&nbsp;from a top-level lab, of =
course, but=20
keep your eyes on the small inventor.&nbsp; I believe the garage =
inventor,=20
probably overseas and most likely in Germany, combined with the *power =
of the=20
internet* to disseminate arcane speculation, such as the =
above,&nbsp;will be the=20
key to this fast-approaching paradigm-shift...</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>...and that will be a story in itself! I just hope some necessary =
part of=20
the puzzle&nbsp;doesn't get lost (because of greed)&nbsp;along the=20
way...</DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Jones </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_019B_01C3081A.E4B45020--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 21 17:28:40 2003
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From: ConexTom aol.com
Message-ID: <1e5.74055b1.2bd5e657 aol.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 20:27:03 EDT
Subject: Re: [plasmajet] Thoughts on the helicoid engine chamber concept etc
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, temalloy@metro.lakes.com
CC: ConexTom aol.com, tom@rhfweb.com
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In a message dated 4/21/2003 3:02:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
temalloy metro.lakes.com writes:

> I'm I just under educated? I have no clue how to do any of this, does anyone 
> else other than the Baron understand how to do this?
>  
> 
> Did you write this, Tom. If you did, IMHO, you have a bright future in 
> science fiction.
> 

I have more details and experiments supporting the above article which was 
just meant as a specification outline, such as specific frequencies and 
schematics needed etc., which I obtained from the plasmajet email web site 
which you can review at <A HREF="mailto:plasmajet smartgroups.com">plasmajet@smartgroups.com</A>, and I assumed that most 
eletrical engineering scientists would understand what I meant, and that I 
would not need to list the details.    Most of the above technologies and 
ideas were invented by Tesla and others, and even published in the New York 
Times of which I have copies of the articles, and which have been repressed 
by the US government, and academia for the past 50 years, to discourage 
modern space flight by the ordinary citizen and small business person.  Most 
science fiction movies such as Star Trek are out of date, and behind present 
technology.  The NSA already has Star Trek like teleportation and beaming 
technologies. 

Baron Von Volsung, <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com\baron">www.rhfweb.com\baron</A>, Email: tom rhfweb.com
President Thomas D. Clark, tom rhfweb.com, <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com\personal">www.rhfweb.com\personal</A>
New Age Production's Inc., <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com\newage">www.rhfweb.com\newage</A>
Star Haven Community Services, at <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com\sh">www.rhfweb.com\sh</A>
Radiation Health Foundation Trust at <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com">www.rhfweb.com</A>


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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=
=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 4/21/2003 3:02:07 AM Eastern Daylig=
ht Time, temalloy metro.lakes.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT=
: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I'm I just under educated? I ha=
ve no clue how to do any of this, does anyone else other than the Baron unde=
rstand how to do this?<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
Did you write this, Tom. If you did, IMHO, you have a bright future in scien=
ce fiction.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
I have more details and experiments supporting the above article which was j=
ust meant as a specification outline, such as specific frequencies and schem=
atics needed etc., which I obtained from the plasmajet email web site which=20=
you can review at <A HREF=3D"mailto:plasmajet smartgroups.com">plasmajet@sma=
rtgroups.com</A>, and I assumed that most eletrical engineering scientists w=
ould understand what I meant, and that I would not need to list the details.=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Most of the above technologies and ideas were invented by=
 Tesla and others, and even published in the New York Times of which I have=20=
copies of the articles, and which have been repressed by the US government,=20=
and academia for the past 50 years, to discourage modern space flight by the=
 ordinary citizen and small business person.&nbsp; Most science fiction movi=
es such as Star Trek are out of date, and behind present technology.&nbsp; T=
he NSA already has Star Trek like teleportation and beaming technologies. <B=
R>
<BR>
Baron Von Volsung, <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\baron">www.rhfweb.com\baron</A>=
, Email: tom rhfweb.com<BR>
President Thomas D. Clark, tom rhfweb.com, <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\persona=
l">www.rhfweb.com\personal</A><BR>
New Age Production's Inc., <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\newage">www.rhfweb.com\=
newage</A><BR>
Star Haven Community Services, at <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\sh">www.rhfweb.c=
om\sh</A><BR>
Radiation Health Foundation Trust at <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com">www.rhfweb.c=
om</A><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 21 18:04:03 2003
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From: ConexTom aol.com
Message-ID: <9b.377858fb.2bd5ee08 aol.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 20:59:52 EDT
Subject: Re: By Design
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, temalloy@metro.lakes.com
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In a message dated 4/21/2003 4:48:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
temalloy metro.lakes.com writes:

> I saw a website selling devices to prevent cell phone radiation. Did you 
> paste in the wrong URL. I sure would appreciate some of you Vortexians 
> weighing in on this thread, especially somebody who knows something like 
> Hamdi, Ed Storms, or von Spaarondonk. I want to know what the evidence 
> there is for nuclear reactions on the Sun.
> 

Sorry the link should have been this one, <A HREF="http://www.cellphonesar.com/black_hole_sun_theory.htm">
http://www.cellphonesar.com/black_hole_sun_theory.htm</A> 
The article was posted as a subarticle at the cell phone radiation web site 
above which can be purchased there, though I do not know why, other than the 
owner of the website may be interested in Sun physics, since he also knows a 
great deal about radiation physics. 

Baron Von Volsung, <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com\baron">www.rhfweb.com\baron</A>, Email: tom rhfweb.com
President Thomas D. Clark, tom rhfweb.com, <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com\personal">www.rhfweb.com\personal</A>
New Age Production's Inc., <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com\newage">www.rhfweb.com\newage</A>
Star Haven Community Services, at <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com\sh">www.rhfweb.com\sh</A>
Radiation Health Foundation Trust at <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com">www.rhfweb.com</A>


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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=
=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 4/21/2003 4:48:54 PM Eastern Daylig=
ht Time, temalloy metro.lakes.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT=
: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I saw a website selling devices=
 to prevent cell phone radiation. Did you paste in the wrong URL. I sure wou=
ld appreciate some of you Vortexians weighing in on this thread, especially=20=
somebody who knows something like Hamdi, Ed Storms, or von Spaarondonk. I wa=
nt to know what the evidence there is for nuclear reactions on the Sun.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Sorry the link should have been this one, <A HREF=3D"http://www.cellphonesar=
.com/black_hole_sun_theory.htm">http://www.cellphonesar.com/black_hole_sun_t=
heory.htm</A> <BR>
The article was posted as a subarticle at the cell phone radiation web site=20=
above which can be purchased there, though I do not know why, other than the=
 owner of the website may be interested in Sun physics, since he also knows=20=
a great deal about radiation physics. <BR>
<BR>
Baron Von Volsung, <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\baron">www.rhfweb.com\baron</A>=
, Email: tom rhfweb.com<BR>
President Thomas D. Clark, tom rhfweb.com, <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\persona=
l">www.rhfweb.com\personal</A><BR>
New Age Production's Inc., <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\newage">www.rhfweb.com\=
newage</A><BR>
Star Haven Community Services, at <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\sh">www.rhfweb.c=
om\sh</A><BR>
Radiation Health Foundation Trust at <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com">www.rhfweb.c=
om</A><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 16:06:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
cc: vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Old Terms ::::::  ||BBGB and HBNB
In-Reply-To: <019e01c30855$91904760$0a016ea8 cpq>
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X-Status: 



	Dear  Vo.,


	I will re-introduce two terms to the vortex and general community.
These terms are intended to separate Vapor-Science and-or Pseudo-Science
from science. 
 
	EPM:
	
        A hypothetical electrical and permanent magnet based "Over Unity"
device is the basis for the use of the two terms.   This will be called an
        EPM system or an Electrical and Permanent Magnet based energy
system. The EPM is a box and these examples of the uses of the terms BBGB
and HBNB are abbreviated extracts of hypothetical information about the
system.  The ideas of these terms will hold true in almost any discussion
of science on vortex.  The examples are used to convey information about
part of this made up system. 

	Term # 1 is a parameter for conveying information:

	BBGB = Blow-By-Grinding-Blow and means description of each event
in, say, a boxing match.  In the context of Vapor Science an example, in
the very simplest terms might be as follows:

	Example:

	BBGB:	The EPM is made with 100 turns of # 30 AWG copper
enamel insulated magnet wire.  The wire is wound in a single layer
solenoidal winding on a non metallic insulating cylindrical hollow core
with an OD of 2 inches and an ID of 1.75 inches.  The core is made from
clear acrylic plastic and is 5 inches long and the winding is centered on
the core.
	
	Not BBGB:  A 100 turn coil is used.


	HBNB = Hard Ball, Nuts and Bolts "Belt and Suspenders" Engineering
		or Real world Applied sciences.
	HBNB:

	The EPM exhibits an inductance of 135 micro Henries and is excited
with the system described in part one.  The output is an AC sine wave with
an RMS voltage of 22 volts and and RMS current of 1.127 milli Amperes. 
These voltage and current figures are expressed when the EPM is loaded
with a 10,000 ohm carbon composition resistor with a 1.2 watt rating and 5
percents accuracy band.  The measured resistance of the specific resistor
employed during making these measures is 10,007 ohms. 

	Not HBNB:

	The EPM of above shows an output of 22 volts.  Since the input is
only 10 volts this is clearly over unity.


	Q:	Do any Vo have other useful terms such as these that may
be used to help describe useful ways to convey information along the lines
ofthe intent of BBGB and HBNB?

	Q:	Are there any objections to the general use of these
			terms?
				

						JH

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 22 13:33:11 2003
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Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 16:30:26 -0400
From: "Terry Blanton" <blantont rtpatlanta.com>
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Are what propel Space Ship One, a likely candidate for the $10M X-prize. 
 Check out Burt Rutan's latest project:

http://www.scaled.com

Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 22 14:02:12 2003
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From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
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Subject: RE: Old Tires and Laughing Gas . . .
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 17:19:05 -0400
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Sounds like it would be a pretty foul bird to
fly behind. Burning tires, huh?

This guy seems more in line with the vort style
of doing things.

http://www.armadilloaerospace.com

Anyone want to help them out finding some hydrogen peroxide?
I don't think the pharmacy type will cut it...

K.

-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Blanton [mailto:blantont rtpatlanta.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 4:30 PM
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Old Tires and Laughing Gas . . .


Are what propel Space Ship One, a likely candidate for the $10M X-prize. 
 Check out Burt Rutan's latest project:

http://www.scaled.com

Terry


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 23 12:08:43 2003
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To: "ou-Builders" <ou-builders yahoogroups.com>,
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Subject: BingoFuel update
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:22:37 -0400
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Hi All.

Perusing the JLN site, I find more info on gas generation
and power input.

http://jlnlabs.online.fr/bingofuel/html/bfr11.htm

Using my previously posted numbers, ( 12.5 kJ/L )
I get 25% efficiency of gas generation. Not bad
really, but perhaps the area to focus on
for any anomaly is the combustion process
itself, as Jones Beene suggests. Is the energy content changed by
combining the gas with air as is done for
the motor? 

K.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 23 12:53:03 2003
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Subject: LENR-CANR download relaxation curve
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Following last week's record  activity, the number of downloads at 
LENR-CANR has fallen. So far this week, 1559 files have been downloaded. I 
have observed a similar pattern three times before, shown in the graph at:

http://lenr-canr.org/Features.htm#Visitors

This bears an uncanny resemblance to Fleischmann's graphs showing the 
effect of a heat pulse on a heavily loaded sample of palladium. I hesitate 
to describe it this way because I fear this message may be trapped by 
antispam programs, but what you see is a gradual buildup of excitation 
followed by relaxation, where in the relaxation phase the curve never falls 
as low as it was before the initial excitation cycle began. During an ICCF, 
J. P. Biberian described these events in the F&P-style boil-off experiments 
replicated at the French AEC. His lecture was the most colorful and amusing 
presentation about physics I have ever heard. The final heat pulse that 
triggers a massive excess heat a boil-off event. He describes this saying, 
in his charming French accented English: ". . . and if there are no ladies 
present in the lecture hall, or if I might apologize in advance to those 
present, permit me to call this the climax of the experiment."

It remains to be seen what event at LENR-CANR may be analogous to the final 
climactic boil-off.

I have not uploaded many new files lately. I feel bad about that. I hope to 
upload three or four about tritium soon.

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 23 14:28:06 2003
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From: "Frederick Sparber" <fjsparber earthlink.net>
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Subject: Re: BINGO vs WWII Vehicle-Mounted Biomass Gasifiers
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Although JLN's use of modern technology is impressive, carbon rods are energy
intensive and electric welders are expensive.

http://www.gengas.nu/byggbes/ix.shtml

http://www.gengas.nu/byggbes/executive_summary.shtml

This report is one in a series of emergency technology assessments sponsored by the
Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). The purpose of this report is to develop
detailed, illustrated instructions for the fabrication, installation, and operation of
a biomass gasifier unit (i.e. a "producer gas" generator, also called a "wood gas"
generator) which is capable of providing emergency fuel for vehicles, such as tractors
and trucks, should normal petroleum sources be severely disrupted for an extended
period of time. These instructions have been prepared as a manual for use by any
mechanic who is reasonably proficient in metal fabrication or engine repair.
Fuel gas, produced by the reduction of coal and peat, was used for heating as early as
1840 in Europe and by 1884 had been adapted to fuel engines in England. Prior to 1940,
gas generator units were a familiar, but not extensively utilized, technology.
However, petroleum shortages during World War II led to widespread gas generator
applications in the transportation industries of Western Europe. (Charcoal burning
taxis, a related application, were still common in Korea as late as 1970.) The United
States, never faced with such prolonged or severe oil shortages, has lagged far behind
Europe and the Orient in familiarity with and application of this technology. However,
a catastrophic event could disrupt the supply of petroleum in this country so severely
that this technology might be critical in meeting the energy needs of some essential
economic activities, such as the production and distribution of food.

In occupied Denmark during World War II, 95% of all mobile farm machinery, tractors,
trucks, stationary engines, and fishing and ferry boats were powered by wood gas
generator units. Even in neutral Sweden, 40% of all motor traffic operated on gas
derived from wood or charcoal. All over Europe, Asia, and Australia, millions of gas
generators were in operation between 1940f and 1946. Because of the wood gasifier's
health risks from toxic fumes, most of such units were abandoned when il again became
available in 1945. Except for the technology of producing alternate fuels, such as
methane or alcohol, the only solution for operating existing internal combustion
engines, when oil and petroleum products are not available, has been these simple,
inexpensive gasifiers units.

Regards,

Frederick






From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 23 17:12:53 2003
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From: "Nicholas Reiter" <nreiter woh.rr.com>
To: "vortex-L" <vortex-L eskimo.com>
Subject: Tunneled aluminum
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 20:09:45 -0400
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Gentlemen,

Here's a query that goes back a few years.  And I tender this matter with
some sheepishness, because darn it - I actually played with this stuff about
8 years ago.

OK, there was a patent by a fellow named Merkel or Merkle that was for a
process by which liquid mercury or gallium was used to tunnel through high
purity Al (>99.99%)  The result was an odd oxidized mass that was supposedly
perforated with parallel nano-channels.  Analagous to a zeolite, I suppose.
There were a bundle of odd claims associated with the process - that the
tunneled aluminum became superconductive, and that when the tunneling
process was underway, a bluish corona would emanate from the upper end of
the aluminum slug being tunneled.

Now I am a sucker for anything involving mercury, nano-channels, and
mysterious blue glows.  When I scored a copy of the patent - which I have
since lost track of - I followed the process and yes, I did make a very
weird looking mass of aluminum.  It looked hyper-corroded and sprouted
peculiar "hair" for several days afterwards.  On the other hand, I never did
witness the blue glow, nor did it ever exhibit any Meissner Effect or
anomalous electrical properties.

Nevertheless, I am lusting for nano-channels these days, and I may play with
this again.  (As well as considering cyclosilicates such as tourmaline and
beryl, as well as zeolites)

Question then is this:  has anyone out there in Vortex land worked with
Merkel's process and encountered any anomalous results or effects?

On a related note:  is anyone aware of any zeolite structures that are have
chiral or helical channels?  I want to gyrate some ions.  Well, it beats
watching TV as a hobby, doesn't it?

Best,

NR

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 23 22:46:51 2003
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Subject: RE: Tunneled aluminum
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 02:04:57 -0400
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That'd be US3993595.

George Merkl also did a series of artificial
life experiments, about which a little can
be gleaned here

http://www.sumeria.net/phys/merkl.html

I've done the experiment described by LeBon and
can confirm it is as he describes, although
I was of the opinion that the resulting white
crystals were some combination of Al and Hg
and not just alumina. I used a spark from
a mercury wetted cathode to an aluminum anode,
to puncture the oxide layer and start
the process. Whiskers of the material grow
for several minutes, although I noted
no blue glow in those experiments. Is the
blue glow burning hydrogen??? I've seen
this sort of thing before on corroding
metals but not easily reproducible.

I never had pure Al rods to try Merkls
experiment. The impure ones produce
a huge mess of crystals, as Nick wrote.
A little mercury goes a long way
here.

K.





 Nicholas Reiter wrote:

> Now I am a sucker for anything involving mercury, nano-channels, and
> mysterious blue glows.  When I scored a copy of the patent - which I have
> since lost track of - I followed the process and yes, I did make a very
> weird looking mass of aluminum.  It looked hyper-corroded and sprouted
> peculiar "hair" for several days afterwards.  On the other hand, I never
did
> witness the blue glow, nor did it ever exhibit any Meissner Effect or
> anomalous electrical properties.
>

Doug Marret wrote:
    I don't know anything about nanochannels, but what you describe reminded
me of an experiment by Gustave LeBon in his book "The Evolution of Matter",
P. 408-414. LeBon was able to change the catalytic properties of aluminum by
shaking strips of it in a small amount of mercury. When the aluminum was
removed, and placed upright in the air (which has at least some humidity),
the strip becomes covered rapidly with white tufts of alumina, the
temperature of the strip rising to 102 deg. C. If the strip is instead
placed into water, it energetically decomposes the liquid and in the process
converts itself into alumina. LeBon was at a loss to explain how minute
amounts of mercury could so drastically alter the chemical properties of
aluminum.

Doug



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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
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Subject: Re: Tunneled aluminum
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:57:01 +1000
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In reply to  Keith Nagel's message of Thu, 24 Apr 2003 02:04:57 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]

>I never had pure Al rods to try Merkls
>experiment. The impure ones produce
>a huge mess of crystals, as Nick wrote.
>A little mercury goes a long way
>here.
The Hg forms an amalgam with the Al metal, which I am guessing is liquid, so the oxide layer can no longer adhere to it as it normally does to Al. Then the Al in the amalgam oxidises, and the mercury goes on to amalgamate with fresh Al.


Regards,

R. van Spaandonk

When you are counting the dead, remember who voted
for the man that made it all possible.

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--- Nicholas Reiter <nreiter woh.rr.com> wrote:
Quite irrevalent reply here, having little to do with
your query. Multilayer Aluminum foil and wax paper set
as a "lossy" dielectric capacity produces "tunnelled
explosions" when in coordination with the resonant
voltage rise of a large inductor, in coordination with
the wax paper /aluminumun foil "home made capacitor"
that exceeds that dielectric voltage rating. These
look like very small "pimples" or miniature volcanoes
on the aluminum foil. Probably simply the case of
excceding the voltage range of a home made capacitor.
HDN

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo
http://search.yahoo.com

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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
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Subject: Re: Neutrinos from the Sun
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 17:18:26 +1000
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In reply to  thomas malloy's message of Tue, 15 Apr 2003 02:33:27 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]

>This URL talks about a neutrino detector that is supposed to detect 
>neutrinos that might be produced by a nuclear reaction between C N 
>and H, which might be powering the sun. I was right, they aren't sure 
>about the reaction that is occuring. It would seem to me that there 
>should be energitic emmissions produced by the reaction whose 
>frequency would be characteristic of a particular reaction.

I presume by frequency that you mean electromagnetic frequency. The problem with this is that these reactions happen in the core of the sun. The EM radiation produced gets completely absorbed and turned into heat on its way from the core to the surface, so we never get to see it in its original form.


Regards,

R. van Spaandonk

When you are counting the dead, remember who voted
for the man that made it all possible.

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From: "Frederick Sparber" <fjsparber earthlink.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: BINGO vs WWII Vehicle-Mounted Biomass Gasifiers
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 06:21:42 -0500
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 Pressure Swing Absorption (PSA) oxygen concentrators allow production of low
pressure, 95% purity O2 from the atmosphere at an energy cost of about 0.75 lb. of
O2/hp-hr.

This technology (used medical oxygen concentrators) allows small-scale gasification of
biomass wastes, or fossil fuels into hydrogen in relatively simple gasifiers.

Charcoal:

1,  2 C (24 LB) + O2 (32 LB.) ---> 2 CO (56 LB.) + heat

2, Commercially available Shift Catalysts allow a simple low temperature-pressure
reaction of CO with water or steam to produce CO2 plus Hydrogen:

2 CO (56 LB.) + 2 H2O (36 LB.) Shift Catalyst ---> 2 CO2 (88 LB.) + 2 H2 (4 LB.)

The 4 LB. of H2 produced has a maximum theoretical yield of  about 88 hp-hr..
Subtracting the 32/0.75 = 44 hp-hr. needed to produce the high purity O2, leaves 44
hp-hr. of
hydrogen to run a fuel cell or ICE.

OTOH, Pelletized/Briquetted pet food, food wastes, leaves-grass,straw, sawdust, and
other organic wastes in an oxygen-blown gasifier, negate the need for making charcoal.

Cellulose or starch pellets/briquettes:

1, C6H10-O5 (162 LB.) + 3 O2 (96 LB.) ---> 6 CO (168 LB.) + 5 H2O (90 LB.) + heat

2, 6 CO + 6 H2O ---> 6 CO2 + 12 H2 (24  LB.)

Giving a potential of 528 hp-hr, minus the 128 hp-hr needed to produce the high purity
O2, leaving 400  hp-hr worth of on-demand hydrogen to concurrently run a genset, car,
or fuel cell.

Regards,

Frederick





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Subject: Re: BINGO vs WWII Vehicle-Mounted Biomass Gasifiers



Fred,

Keep an eye on Naudin's new experiments.

He is switching to tungsten rods and will mix some dissolvable hydrocarbon into the water, such as sugar....

This will allow a better appraisal of the energy balance, and in the case of biomass, would point to a way of dispensing with any fermentation stage...

Even with the use of hydrocarbon +H2O, it appears that some OU is occurring here...eventually he will figure out that even the hydrocarbon is unnecessary  ;-)

Jones


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Subject: Re: BINGO vs WWII Vehicle-Mounted Biomass Gasifiers
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Hi Jones,

You wrote:

> Fred,
>
> Keep an eye on Naudin's new experiments.
>
> He is switching to tungsten rods and will mix some dissolvable hydrocarbon into the
water, such as sugar....

Sounds like Mizuno's water-arc Cold Fusion Experiment Sweetened with Sugar.   :-)

Scott Little ran Mizuno's water-arc experiment:

www.earthtech.org


>
> This will allow a better appraisal of the energy balance, and in the case of
biomass, would point to a way of dispensing with any fermentation stage...

Okay for on-demand fuel gas production, but generating electrical arcs with the photon
loss as local heat, is very inefficient.
>
> Even with the use of hydrocarbon +H2O, it appears that some OU is occurring
here...eventually he will figure out that even the hydrocarbon is unnecessary  ;-)
>
Hydrinos, Jones?

Regards,

Frederick
> Jones
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr 24 08:33:26 2003
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Subject: Re: BINGO vs WWII Vehicle-Mounted Biomass Gasifiers
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From: "Frederick Sparber" <fjsparber earthlink.net>

> ...eventually he will figure out that even the hydrocarbon is unnecessary  ;-)

> Hydrinos, Jones?


Probably, at least in part. I think it is going to be more complex than any single phenomenon. Some possibilities for putative OU in water-fuel:


"beta-aether" (ZPE etc)

Any number of QM low-probability interactions, such as quantum tunneling

Hydrinos...

EVs (the charge cluster phenomena of Ken Shoulders)...

Some other non-hydrino variation of CF phenomena (deuterium stripping)....(there is lots of deuterium in water)

Other "quasi-nuclear" or "supra-chemical" phenomena that has not yet been described...

MOST probably: a range of interactions between several, or all, of the above....


Unfortunately, nobody likes to consider the possibility that numerous highly speculative new mechanisms, none of which are understood or widely accepted, could be at work in the simplest of arcing devices....

"reductionism" probably reached its limits with Quantum Mechanics, and now we have to start to logically rebuilt the complexity we were once so desirous of eliminating...

The only three reductionist principles that seem to be at work in the utilization of water-fuel are firstly, a VACUUM, or partial vacuum, especially a vacuum resulting in PHASE CHANGE, particularly phase-change that is juxtaposed instantaneously against an ELECTRIC FIELD...

Jones




From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr 24 09:17:40 2003
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Subject: Re: BINGO vs WWII Vehicle-Mounted Biomass Gasifiers
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Jones Beene wrote:

>
 > ...eventually he will figure out that even the hydrocarbon is unnecessary  ;-)
>
> Frederick Sparber wrote:
> > Hydrinos, Jones?
>
>
> Probably, at least in part. I think it is going to be more complex than any single
phenomenon. Some possibilities for putative OU in water-fuel:
>
Interesting thought.

I ran a high voltage-low current discharge using a neon sign transformer to the
surface of a water solution of Lithium Hydroxide (Li+, -OH) in a stainless steel
pressure cooker in the mid 70's looking for the H + Li ---> 2 He4 + ~17  Mev reaction,
and got a rapid pressure rise even though the water in the vessel even had a chance to
get warm.In a few seconds the pressure would rise enough to extinguish the discharge,
and after a few minutes the pressure would drop enough for the discharge to re-ignite.

I tried this with Boric Acid (H3BO3) with the same results.

I tried "Drano" Sodium Hydroxide (NaOH) as a " control" and still got the same strange
results.

I passed this exciting news to the CTR group at Los Alamos, since I had no means to
look for Helium, or do the calorimetery. They didn't pay much attention this
"phenomenon" so I shelved it in order to get back to the biomass conversion effort.

The local power company loaned me a 7,200/240 volt pole transformer, which I used with
120 wall socket and ran the discharge to the surface of a mix of feedlot manure and
water in a metal bucket.  Man, what a circuit breaker-throwning gas cloud discharge
that was!  :-)

Over-Unity Biogas or No, it was too dangerous for me to explore. I went back to
Thermochemical (gasifier) research.

Regards,

Frederick

>
> Jones
>


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Well,
 this may not be what you want, but it makes small channels:

 I am still searching for a high - temperature ceramic glue (1100 C+ if you
can help)
  and in this search I found what I though I might use: furnace cement.
 It is sold by the 'caulking' tube size, and is advertised to handle heat.
 I tried to cure it by several methods, always failing in time or rate.

 One of my attempts was to pass 240 vac through it, as it has moisture
  which must be driven out to cure.
 The result was a failure, but I did notice helical channels in what
appeared
   to be hardened molten silica, which separated from the cement towards one
electrode.
  Hope that may be of use...


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nicholas Reiter [mailto:nreiter woh.rr.com]
> Sent: Thursday, 2003 April 24 07:10
> To: vortex-L
> Subject: Tunneled aluminum
>
>
> Gentlemen,
>
> Here's a query that goes back a few years.  And I tender this matter with
> some sheepishness, because darn it - I actually played with this
> stuff about
> 8 years ago.
>
> OK, there was a patent by a fellow named Merkel or Merkle that was for a
> process by which liquid mercury or gallium was used to tunnel through high
> purity Al (>99.99%)  The result was an odd oxidized mass that was
> supposedly
> perforated with parallel nano-channels.  Analagous to a zeolite,
> I suppose.
> There were a bundle of odd claims associated with the process - that the
> tunneled aluminum became superconductive, and that when the tunneling
> process was underway, a bluish corona would emanate from the upper end of
> the aluminum slug being tunneled.
>
> Now I am a sucker for anything involving mercury, nano-channels, and
> mysterious blue glows.  When I scored a copy of the patent - which I have
> since lost track of - I followed the process and yes, I did make a very
> weird looking mass of aluminum.  It looked hyper-corroded and sprouted
> peculiar "hair" for several days afterwards.  On the other hand,
> I never did
> witness the blue glow, nor did it ever exhibit any Meissner Effect or
> anomalous electrical properties.
>
> Nevertheless, I am lusting for nano-channels these days, and I
> may play with
> this again.  (As well as considering cyclosilicates such as tourmaline and
> beryl, as well as zeolites)
>
> Question then is this:  has anyone out there in Vortex land worked with
> Merkel's process and encountered any anomalous results or effects?
>
> On a related note:  is anyone aware of any zeolite structures
> that are have
> chiral or helical channels?  I want to gyrate some ions.  Well, it beats
> watching TV as a hobby, doesn't it?
>
> Best,
>
> NR
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr 24 09:44:30 2003
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Subject: Another EarthTech experiment [was BINGO etc]
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:39:02 -0700
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>From FS:
 
> Sounds like Mizuno's water-arc Cold Fusion Experiment Sweetened with Sugar.   :-)    Scott Little ran Mizuno's water-arc experiment:
 
> www.earthtech.org

If you look at the experiment that Scott did to find EVs
http://www.earthtech.org/experiments/sparkly/report.html

You will see that even Scott begrudgingly admits,

"Thus we can conclude only that this experiment produced less than a few percent excess heat."

But that was JUST on the calorimetry and didn't include the photon emission... IMHO, the experiment was clearly OU when you consider the photons, even though it was not optimized.... or worse  :-[

PLUS 

If he had been able to run this same experiment with a partial vacuum, I'd bet a dollar to a donut hole that he would have found significant heat OU...

Just another in a growing list of "experiments that should be revisited and improved on "...

Jones

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News at
  http://www.physicsweb.org/article/news/7/4/16
Homepage at
  http://www.ias.fr/STAP/Bi_IAS_2003/Bi_eng_index_01.htm

Regards,
hamdi ucar

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr 24 12:54:33 2003
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A better homepage is http://www.ias.fr/STAP/Bi_IAS_2003/bismuth_index_eng.htm where the paper is ready to download.

hamdi ucar

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr 24 15:11:48 2003
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To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Warning: Virus?
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I just got a an email that looks to be completely bogus spam:

FROM: "Microsoft Corporation Public Assistance"
<gasmmhhckn551800 MFLVstAtYa.com>
TO: "MS Customer" goliath.mtaonline.net
SUBJECT: Microsoft Security Pack

Attached was a file called "Q308084.exe".

The email said:

>MS Customer
>
>this is the latest version of security update, the
>"April 2003, Cumulative Patch" update which eliminates all
>known security vulnerabilities affecting Internet Explorer,
>Outlook and Outlook Express as well as five newly discovered
>vulnerabilities. Install now to protect your computer from these
>vulnerabilities, the most serious of which could allow an attacker to
>run executable on your system. This update includes the functionality
>of all previously released patches.
>
>System requirements:
>Win 9x/Me/2000/NT/XP
>
>This update applies to:
>Microsoft Internet Explorer, version 4.01 and later
>Microsoft Outlook, version 8.00 and later
>Microsoft Outlook Express, version 4.01 and later
>
>Recommendation:
>Customers should install the patch at the earliest opportunity.
>
>How to install:
>Run attached file. Click Yes on displayed dialog box.
>
>How to use:
>You don't need to do anything after installing this item.
>
>Microsoft Technical Support is available at
>http://support.microsoft.com/
>
>For security-related information about Microsoft products,
>please visit the Microsoft Security Advisor web site at
>http://www.microsoft.com/security
>
>Contact us at
>http://www.microsoft.com/isapi/goregwiz.asp?target=/contactus/contactus.asp
>
>
>Please do not reply to this message. It was sent from an unmonitored
>e-mail address and we are unable to respond to any replies.
>
>Thank you for using Microsoft products.
>
>With friendly greetings,
>Microsoft Corporation Public Assistance

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr 24 15:39:59 2003
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Message-ID: <3EA86802.4FAB9E8B verisoft.com.tr>
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 01:41:06 +0300
From: hamdix <hamdix verisoft.com.tr>
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To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Warning: Virus?
References: <v01530501bace1047e195 [12.21.209.211]>
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Yes, this should be Internet worm Gibe.

Regards, hamdi ucar 

Horace Heffner wrote:
> 
> I just got a an email that looks to be completely bogus spam:
> 
> FROM: "Microsoft Corporation Public Assistance"
> <gasmmhhckn551800 MFLVstAtYa.com>
> TO: "MS Customer" goliath.mtaonline.net
> SUBJECT: Microsoft Security Pack
> 
> Attached was a file called "Q308084.exe".
> 
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr 24 19:57:28 2003
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From: ConexTom aol.com
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Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:04:10 EDT
Subject: Magnetic Earth & Solar Grid Spherical Resonances to Teleport Ships
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According to the book The Energy Grid, Harmonic 695, The Pulse of the 
Universe by Bruce L. Cathie, 1997, and Antigravity and the World Grid by 
David Childress, 2001, there exists holographic geometric light patterns and 
time and space resonance's in all objects, which allow the speed of time 
which is 6th dimensional to be changed per object size or mass and location 
by changing the gravity which may be 5th dimensional around the object by 
means of 3 dimensional emf changes and the E=mc^2 equations, to allow the 
object to teleport to another location by faster than standard local time 
speed travel.   Geometric holographic light patterns may define the size, 
mass, and shape of the object to define its speed of time signature which is 
unique in the universe for every object at ever time and location in the 
universe throughout all of time.  

Once all of the objects in the universe, in a solar system or on a planet 
have been identified and given a unique time signature per the history of the 
object and predecessor objects and the modeled energy grid map of the 
holographic light geometry's of the universe, it will be possible to uniquely 
map each point in space throughout the whole universe and all of history to 
allow a ship to travel to any unique point in the universe by faster than 
light Teleportation by having the ships force fields change the time and 
gravity of the ship by emf changes to match the unique time signature of that 
point and time of the object or place in the universe. 

Einstein even admitted that he never stated that time was absolute and that 
the speed of time can change and exceed the measured value of time dependent 
on the mass of the object.

The two above books go into the physics of Earths natural light geometry's 
and energy grids to calculate exactly where UFO's land by means 
Teleportation. The harmonics of the Earth grid are calculated based on the 
following data below  (Energy Grid, Bruce, 1997, Pg 7):

Speed of light harmonic: 1439
Anti-speed of light harmonic: 695
Harmonics associated with the Earth's magnetic fields: 2545.5 and 3930
Earth mass harmonic : 1703

Where the grid consists of "areas of 30 minutes of arc oriented approximately 

north-south (006 deg true) and 30 minutes of arc approximately east west (276 
deg true). These areas are further divisible into sixteen smaller areas  7.5 
by 7.5 minutes of arc.(Energy Grid, Bruce, 1997, Pg 7)"

There are a few other good books available at amazon.com on space ship 
Teleportation and antigravity which give details on how to build such 
technologies:

Occult Ether Physics, Tesla's Hidden Space Propulsion System and the 
Conspiracy to Conceal It by William Lyne 2nd edition 2000

Electrogravatics systems, Thomas Valone, 1993

Baron Von Volsung, <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com\baron">www.rhfweb.com\baron</A>, Email: tom rhfweb.com
President Thomas D. Clark, tom rhfweb.com, <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com\personal">www.rhfweb.com\personal</A>
New Age Production's Inc., <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com\newage">www.rhfweb.com\newage</A>
Star Haven Community Services, at <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com\sh">www.rhfweb.com\sh</A>
Radiation Health Foundation Trust at <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com">www.rhfweb.com</A>


--part1_21.2e4de5ac.2bd9f19a_boundary
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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=
=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">According to the book The Energy Grid, Harmonic 695, T=
he Pulse of the Universe by Bruce L. Cathie, 1997, and Antigravity and the W=
orld Grid by David Childress, 2001, there exists holographic geometric light=
 patterns and time and space resonance's in all objects, which allow the spe=
ed of time which is 6th dimensional to be changed per object size or mass an=
d location by changing the gravity which may be 5th dimensional around the o=
bject by means of 3 dimensional emf changes and the E=3Dmc^2 equations, to a=
llow the object to teleport to another location by faster than standard loca=
l time speed travel.&nbsp;&nbsp; Geometric holographic light patterns may de=
fine the size, mass, and shape of the object to define its speed of time sig=
nature which is unique in the universe for every object at ever time and loc=
ation in the universe throughout all of time.&nbsp; <BR>
<BR>
Once all of the objects in the universe, in a solar system or on a planet ha=
ve been identified and given a unique time signature per the history of the=20=
object and predecessor objects and the modeled energy grid map of the hologr=
aphic light geometry's of the universe, it will be possible to uniquely map=20=
each point in space throughout the whole universe and all of history to allo=
w a ship to travel to any unique point in the universe by faster than light=20=
Teleportation by having the ships force fields change the time and gravity o=
f the ship by emf changes to match the unique time signature of that point a=
nd time of the object or place in the universe. <BR>
<BR>
Einstein even admitted that he never stated that time was absolute and that=20=
the speed of time can change and exceed the measured value of time dependent=
 on the mass of the object.<BR>
<BR>
The two above books go into the physics of Earths natural light geometry's a=
nd energy grids to calculate exactly where UFO's land by means Teleportation=
. The harmonics of the Earth grid are calculated based on the following data=
 below&nbsp; (Energy Grid, Bruce, 1997, Pg 7):<BR>
<BR>
Speed of light harmonic: 1439<BR>
Anti-speed of light harmonic: 695<BR>
Harmonics associated with the Earth's magnetic fields: 2545.5 and 3930<BR>
Earth mass harmonic : 1703<BR>
<BR>
Where the grid consists of "areas of 30 minutes of arc oriented approximatel=
y <BR>
north-south (006 deg true) and 30 minutes of arc approximately east west (27=
6 deg true). These areas are further divisible into sixteen smaller areas&nb=
sp; 7.5 by 7.5 minutes of arc.(Energy Grid, Bruce, 1997, Pg 7)"<BR>
<BR>
There are a few other good books available at amazon.com on space ship Telep=
ortation and antigravity which give details on how to build such technologie=
s:<BR>
<BR>
Occult Ether Physics, Tesla's Hidden Space Propulsion System and the Conspir=
acy to Conceal It by William Lyne 2nd edition 2000<BR>
<BR>
Electrogravatics systems, Thomas Valone, 1993<BR>
<BR>
Baron Von Volsung, <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\baron">www.rhfweb.com\baron</A>=
, Email: tom rhfweb.com<BR>
President Thomas D. Clark, tom rhfweb.com, <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\persona=
l">www.rhfweb.com\personal</A><BR>
New Age Production's Inc., <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\newage">www.rhfweb.com\=
newage</A><BR>
Star Haven Community Services, at <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\sh">www.rhfweb.c=
om\sh</A><BR>
Radiation Health Foundation Trust at <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com">www.rhfweb.c=
om</A><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_21.2e4de5ac.2bd9f19a_boundary--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr 25 00:52:42 2003
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References: <000f01c309f5$d243c4c0$5e201f41 woh.rr.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 02:53:08 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Re: Tunneled aluminum
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
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>
>On a related note:  is anyone aware of any zeolite structures that are have
>chiral or helical channels?  I want to gyrate some ions.  Well, it beats
>watching TV as a hobby, doesn't it?

What are you trying to accomplish?

Amen to that, the less TV I watch, the less I want to watch.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr 25 14:13:54 2003
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Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 17:07:55 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell mindspring.com>
Subject: OFF TOPIC More on traffic jams and democracy
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Food for thought:

Democracy and Traffic Jams
Should you be allowed to buy a faster commute?
By Michael Kinsley

http://slate.msn.com/id/2081970

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr 25 15:34:13 2003
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References: <000f01c309f5$d243c4c0$5e201f41 woh.rr.com> <a05111b00bacda9ad2f95@[64.61.197.4]>
Subject: Re: Tunneled aluminum
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Thomas, and all the other vortexians

Thanks one and all for input!  I may have to try some of the foil strip
experiments.

The Merkle technique involved taking a slug of Al, and placing it on a
liquid mercury surface, with the whole arrangement being immersed in a
source of hydrogen ions, such as diluted HCl.  I used 4 to 1 DI water : HCl.
The Hg then tunnels upward (supposedly) through the Al slug, although to me
it looked like it crept across the surface too.  You are supposed to see
fine streams of bubbles arise from the top surface - which I did.

The reason I am looking at nano- channels is to see if any sort of anomalous
gravity or inertial interaction would occur when nano-tunneled structures
are either accelerated in space, or when ions are constrained to flow in the
channels (under pressure or electrical field acceleration)

I am looking at and pondering the cyclo-silicate tunnels in beryl.  I wonder
if anyone has tried accelerating heavy ions into these channels to produce
wild and funky colored gemstones?  Might be a cottage industry there for
lapidary, even if it doesn't produce any vacuum cohering macroscopic forces!

Best,

NR

----- Original Message -----
From: "thomas malloy" <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 3:53 AM
Subject: Re: Tunneled aluminum


> >
> >On a related note:  is anyone aware of any zeolite structures that are
have
> >chiral or helical channels?  I want to gyrate some ions.  Well, it beats
> >watching TV as a hobby, doesn't it?
>
> What are you trying to accomplish?
>
> Amen to that, the less TV I watch, the less I want to watch.
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr 25 15:41:01 2003
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From: ConexTom aol.com
Message-ID: <48.1bcdb064.2bdb12db aol.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 18:38:19 EDT
Subject: Re: [Antigravity] Re: Magnetic Earth & Solar Grid Spherical Resonances to Tel...
To: Antigravity yahoogroups.com, prj@mail.msen.com,
        Roundtable7 yahoogroups.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com,
        plasmajet smartgroups.com
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In a message dated 4/25/2003 12:55:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
andrew_ppp hotmail.com writes:

> What predictions does this lot make that are testable?

The books I read went into details on their own tests, much of which occurred 
in New Zealand, which corresponded the calculated and predicted energy grid 
points of Earth, to match exactly with the locations of UFO sightings. 

I believe constructing a small hollow metal or ceramic ball or torus in the 
shape of the Earth, and then placing a mesh of metal wire grid lines 
perpendicular to each other on the metal ball at every 7.5 minutes of  21,600 
minutes per sphere, where 7.5 is a multiple of 21,600 by 2880 which is twice 
the speed of light, and then connecting the grid lines to a voltmeter, gauss 
meter, and computer, to model the electromagnetic energy changes on the 
sphere at each grid point, may then allow one to calculate and simulate the 
gravatic, magnetic, time and mass changes on the sphere in relation to the 
natural grid line geometry's of the sphere.   All data obtained from 
experiments on the metal sphere, could apply to all spherical objects in the 
universe depending on the size of the sphere, and the properties of the 
atmosphere around and inside of the sphere.   The pressure points and chakra 
points in the human body are calculated based on the electromagnetic energies 
and volt changes of the human body in relation to sacred geometrical 
resonance patterns of the human body, which is similar to the resonance 
patterns of a spherical balloon filled with salt water. 

Principles of spherical resonance's physics should predict the spherical 
resonance patterns of the Earth and any spherical 3D object in the universe, 
which may interact with matter, gravity and time, to test the changes that 
may occur due to changes in electrical magnetic properties of any sphere.   
Once the predicted values for the spherical resonance patterns in relation to 
light, energy, gravity, mass, and time for any spherical 3D object in the 
universe have been calculated, then they can be tested experimentally with 
infrared Hubbell light maps of the universe and a map of the universe can be 
created in the form of  a universe energy grid map in 3D spherical form and 
for each spherical object in the universe.  Also a 4D torus grid map of the 
universe and all major celestial objects can be projected based on spherical 
resonance patterns of 3D and 4D objects. 

Baron Von Volsung, <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com\baron">www.rhfweb.com\baron</A>, Email: tom rhfweb.com
President Thomas D. Clark, tom rhfweb.com, <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com\personal">www.rhfweb.com\personal</A>
New Age Production's Inc., <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com\newage">www.rhfweb.com\newage</A>
Star Haven Community Services, at <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com\sh">www.rhfweb.com\sh</A>
Radiation Health Foundation Trust at <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com">www.rhfweb.com</A>


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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=
=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 4/25/2003 12:55:23 AM Eastern Dayli=
ght Time, andrew_ppp hotmail.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT=
: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">What predictions does this lot=20=
make that are testable?</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
The books I read went into details on their own tests, much of which occurre=
d in New Zealand, which corresponded the calculated and predicted energy gri=
d points of Earth, to match exactly with the locations of UFO sightings. <BR=
>
<BR>
I believe constructing a small hollow metal or ceramic ball or torus in the=20=
shape of the Earth, and then placing a mesh of metal wire grid lines perpend=
icular to each other on the metal ball at every 7.5 minutes of&nbsp; 21,600=20=
minutes per sphere, where 7.5 is a multiple of 21,600 by 2880 which is twice=
 the speed of light, and then connecting the grid lines to a voltmeter, gaus=
s meter, and computer, to model the electromagnetic energy changes on the sp=
here at each grid point, may then allow one to calculate and simulate the gr=
avatic, magnetic, time and mass changes on the sphere in relation to the nat=
ural grid line geometry's of the sphere.&nbsp;&nbsp; All data obtained from=20=
experiments on the metal sphere, could apply to all spherical objects in the=
 universe depending on the size of the sphere, and the properties of the atm=
osphere around and inside of the sphere.&nbsp;&nbsp; The pressure points and=
 chakra points in the human body are calculated based on the electromagnetic=
 energies and volt changes of the human body in relation to sacred geometric=
al resonance patterns of the human body, which is similar to the resonance p=
atterns of a spherical balloon filled with salt water. <BR>
<BR>
Principles of spherical resonance's physics should predict the spherical res=
onance patterns of the Earth and any spherical 3D object in the universe, wh=
ich may interact with matter, gravity and time, to test the changes that may=
 occur due to changes in electrical magnetic properties of any sphere.&nbsp;=
&nbsp; Once the predicted values for the spherical resonance patterns in rel=
ation to light, energy, gravity, mass, and time for any spherical 3D object=20=
in the universe have been calculated, then they can be tested experimentally=
 with infrared Hubbell light maps of the universe and a map of the universe=20=
can be created in the form of&nbsp; a universe energy grid map in 3D spheric=
al form and for each spherical object in the universe.&nbsp; Also a 4D torus=
 grid map of the universe and all major celestial objects can be projected b=
ased on spherical resonance patterns of 3D and 4D objects. <BR>
<BR>
Baron Von Volsung, <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\baron">www.rhfweb.com\baron</A>=
, Email: tom rhfweb.com<BR>
President Thomas D. Clark, tom rhfweb.com, <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\persona=
l">www.rhfweb.com\personal</A><BR>
New Age Production's Inc., <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\newage">www.rhfweb.com\=
newage</A><BR>
Star Haven Community Services, at <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\sh">www.rhfweb.c=
om\sh</A><BR>
Radiation Health Foundation Trust at <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com">www.rhfweb.c=
om</A><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_48.1bcdb064.2bdb12db_boundary--

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From: ConexTom aol.com
Message-ID: <149.fc3d7d5.2bdb1a20 aol.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 19:09:20 EDT
Subject: Re: [Antigravity] Re: Magnetic Earth & Solar Grid Spherical Resonances to Tel...
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: WHAT'S NEW    Friday, 25 Apr 03
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:42:43 -0400
From: "What's New" <opa aps.org>
Reply-To: opa aps.org
To: "What's New" <whatsnew lists.apsmsgs.org>

WHAT'S NEW   Robert L. Park   Friday, 25 Apr 03   Washington, DC

1. ELECTRONIC VOTING: YOU THOUGHT "HANGING CHADS" WERE A PROBLEM!
The Florida fiasco in the 2000 election sent officials across the
country scurrying to modernize voting in their jurisdictions. 
Touch-screen electronic voting machines suddenly became a hot
technology.  They are fast and convenient, but are they reliable,
tamper-proof and free of programing errors?  There is absolutely
no way of knowing!  The machine code is a proprietary secret of
the company that supplies them.  This puts vote counting under
the full control of a private company, with no independent checks
or audits.  Such machines are a serious threat to democracy, yet
few people are even aware that there is a controversy.  Touch-
screen machines that print paper ballots would do, so long as the
voter can check the ballot, which would go in a secure box to be
available for manual counting. Opposition to paperless electronic
voting machines is being organized by David Dill, a computer
science prof at Stanford http://verify.stanford.edu/evote.html. 
He is seeking signatures of technologists, on a statement to warn
the public of this threat to the integrity of the voting process. 

2. FREE ELECTRICITY: THE PAIN IN MAINE IS PLAINLY ON THE WANE. 
Notorious perpetual motion huckster Dennis Lee, barred from doing
business in the State of Washington last year (WN 4 Oct 02), has
now gotten similar treatment on the other side of the country. 
Armed with a report from a physicist familiar with Lee's free
energy scams, the Maine Attorney General filed a Complaint in
Superior Court citing Maine's consumer protection laws.  The
Court enjoined Lee from doing business in Maine and required him
to conspicuously state on his website that his products and
services are not for sale in the State of Maine.  At its meeting
on April 4, the APS Council adopted a Statement on Perpetual
Motion Machines, deploring "attempts to mislead and defraud the
public based on claims of perpetual motion machines or sources of
unlimited useful energy" http://www.aps.org/statements/03.3.htm

3. HOMEOPATHY: JAMES RANDI FLAUNTS HIS PSYCHIC POWERS.  The BBC
program Horizon did a thorough job of debunking homeopathy last
year, with legendary debunker James Randi devising a simple test,
which of course the homeopathists failed miserably.  However, an
Australian psychic saw right through it.  Randi, she explained,
is a secret psychic who used his awesome power to either alter
the test results or the perception of the results.  "Damn!" Randi
replied, "You got me, Marylou." He warned her he would "make your
hair fall out," and if she persisted, "give you a rash all over
your body."  Whew!  You don't want to mess around with psychics. 
Meanwhile, according to the Daily Mail, the UK is dumping more
than a million pounds into research on alternative medicine,
including homeopathy, at the urging of Prince Charles.

4. ISS: O'KEEFE PLEDGES TO RESUME SHUTTLE FLIGHTS ASAP.  The NASA
Administrator promised quick implementation of the Columbia
investigation board's recommendations, since the shuttle is
important to the ISS.  He didn't say why the ISS is important.

THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND and THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY.  
Opinions are the author's and are not necessarily shared by the
University or the American Physical Society, but they should be.
---
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In a message dated 4/25/2003 7:14:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20
andrew_ppp hotmail.com writes:

> If you simply post=20
>=20
> a) an experimental protocol
> b) a conventional explanation of the observations
> c) the expected result of the observations
> d) an explanation of how b) and c) differ in light of a new theory
>=20
> then everyone in the Group could get their arms around what you are=20
> saying.
>=20
> -Andrew
>=20

a) The experimental protocol=20

Build a model of the Earth in the form of a metal or ceramic hollow bubble=20
sphere, in order to determine the resonant frequencies of a hollow bubble=20
sphere which models Earth that may match the frequencies of 4d gravitational=
,=20
time and 3d emf forces in the Earth or in hollow bubble spheres similar to=20
Earth but smaller in proportion, and which may occure at the vortex points o=
n=20
a grid along the multipes of the speed of light based on the equation e=3Dmc=
^2.

The pyramids for instance have resonant light energy frequencies, which=20
create a cross 4d vortex formation at the base of the pyramid in the form of=
=20
white light and which work upward in a Fibonacci spiral until they reach the=
=20
point of the pyramid's top, to allow many different forms of rainbow light=20
energy to resonant between the cross sections of the pyramid, so that certai=
n=20
rooms and locations in the pyramid based on sacred geometrical laws such as=20
the Fibonacci and Golden mean spirals, allow for higher dimensional 4D energ=
y=20
vortexes in the pyramid such as the Kings Chamber, that can heal the body an=
d=20
allow the body to teleport to other places.   =20

The mathematical models of the hollow spheres or bubbles that describe the=20
resonant frequencies of the bubble spheres modeling Earth's crust and the 3d=
=20
electromagnetic and 4d time and gravatic energy force fields around the Eart=
h=20
that meet at the 4d tunnel vortex points based on the equation e=3Dmc^2 are=20=
as=20
follows:

http://odin.math.nau.edu/~jws/dpgraph/Yellm.html

Spherical Harmonics=20

"The Spherical Harmonics, Yl,m(q, j), are functions defined on the sphere.=20
They are used to describe the wave function of the electron in a hydrogen=20
atom, oscillations of a soap bubble, etc. The spherical harmonics describe=20
non-symmetric solutions to problems with spherical symmetry. The Yl,m=E2=80=
=99s are=20
complex valued. The radius of the figure is the magnitude, and the color=20
shows the phase, of Yl,m(q, j FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial). These are=
 the numbers on the unit circle: 1=20
is red, i is purple, -1 is cyan (light blue), and -i is yellow-green. For=20
each value of l, there are 2 l + 1 linearly independent functions Yl,m, wher=
e=20
m =3D -l, -l+1, ... , l-1, l. I have chosen a different set of 2 l + 1=20
functions, as you see below. =C2=A0  =C2=A0   =C2=A0   =20
Y0,0    =C2=A0   =C2=A0   =C2=A0  =20
=C2=A0   =C2=A0   =20
Re(Y1,1)    =20
Y1,0    =20
Y1,1    =C2=A0   =C2=A0  =20
=C2=A0   =20
Re(Y2,2)    =20
Re(Y2,1)    =20
Y2,0    =20
Y2,1    =20
Y2,2    =C2=A0  =20
=20
Re(Y3,3)    =20
Re(Y3,2)    =20
Re(Y3,1)    =20
Y3,0    =20
Y3,1    =20
Y3,2    =20
Y3,3   =20

The following figure is called =E2=80=9Cinside Y2,2=E2=80=9D. My son, <A HRE=
F=3D"http://users.safeaccess.com/swift">Michael</A>, made this by=20
holding down the =E2=80=9CPage Up=E2=80=9D key until the viewpoint gets insi=
de the surface.=20
(He suggests that you set the figure rotating continuously, and move the=20
viewpoint a bit down before zooming in.)=20
=20
Oscillations of a Soap Bubble=20
The volume of the bubble is constant, so Y0,0 is not used. The center of mas=
s=20
of the bubble is constant, so Y1,m is not used. The lowest frequency=20
oscillations of a soap bubble are l =3D 2. The radius of the soap film is r=20=
=3D 1=20
+ e Y2,m (q, j). The oscillations with different m all have the same=20
frequency. The shape of the oscillations with <A HREF=3D"http://odin.math.na=
u.edu/~jws/dpgraph/dpgfiles/Yellm/Y21oscillation.dpg">m =3D 1</A> and <A HRE=
F=3D"http://odin.math.nau.edu/~jws/dpgraph/dpgfiles/Yellm/Y22oscillation.dpg=
">m =3D 2</A> are the same up=20
to a rotation, but the <A HREF=3D"http://odin.math.nau.edu/~jws/dpgraph/dpgf=
iles/Yellm/Y20oscillation.dpg">m =3D 0</A> oscillation is different. Physics=
 and Math=20
notation=20
WARNING: Spherical coordinates are different in physics and mathematics. The=
=20
symbols q and j are switched! The math notation makes r and q the same in=20
cylincrical and spherical coordinates.=20

x2 + y2 + z2 =3D r2 (physics) =3D r2 (math)=20
arccos(z/r) =3D q (physics) =3D j (math)=20
arctan(y/x) + n p =3D j (physics) =3D q (math) "



A mathematical  model of the earth's crust sphere which is about 1000 miles=20
thick with holes at the top and bottom, if you believe that the Earth is a=20
hollow sphere similar to a soap bubble, can be interfaced with the=20
mathematical spherical models of gravity, time, and electromagnetic force=20
field bubbles surrounding Earth, and also within the Earth, so that the 4d=20
spiral vortex grid points defined by 21,600 minutes on a sphere that may=20
cross over in a spiral vortex between the different bubble force fields in=20
and around Earth in the 3rd electromagnetic dimensions and the 4th gravatic=20
and time dimensions may be mapped onto the Earth at vortex grid points every=
=20
7.5 minutes in harmonic ratios of the speed of light, energy and matter from=
=20
the equation e=3Dmc^2.  =20

The mathematical spherical models of all of the forces of energy in terms of=
=20
electromagnetic light, matter, time, and gravity in spherical rotating=20
objects in the solar system, galaxy, and universe, may also be interfaced=20
into a 4 dimensional map with spherical bubble gravity, time, matter, and=20
light grids that intersect at the resonant 4d vortex points that describes=20
Earth's grid map, to describe the resonant tunneling 4 dimensional vortex=20
points between the Earth and other rotating objects in the solar system and=20
universe such as planets, stars, and rotating clusters of stellar formations=
.=20


The logical data obtained from the above mathematical models may be placed=20
onto a computer with a Math Cad program to simulate the model.   The=20
experimental data that may be feed into the above mathematical models may be=
=20
obtained by measuring the 3 dimensional electricalmagnetic forces with a=20
gauss meter and a volt meter, and gravity forces with a gravity gradiometer=20
obtained from the expected vortex grid points on the grid arcs at every 7.5=20
minutes along the miniature ceramic hollow bubble model of the Earth's crust=
,=20
 and from measurements of the real Earth.=20

b) a conventional explanation of the observations

The data observed from the above mathematical models and experimental=20
empirical models should show that the different bubble models of the matter=20
of the hollow Earth or the crust, interfaces in a 4 dimensional vortex with=20
the 3 dimensional electromagnetic force field bubble energies and the=20
gravatic force field bubble energies of the Earth, at the resonant grid=20
points described by minutes on an arc of the Earth every 7.5 minutes along=20
the multiples of the speed of light based on the equation e=3Dmc^2.

c) the expected result of the observations

The results of the experiments should show that the 4d energy vortexes that=20
interface between the different energy dimensions of the Earth modeled as=20
spherical bubbles, from 3 dimensional electromagnetic, and 4 dimensional=20
gravatic, may occur at the resonant grid points on an arc which is divisible=
=20
by the multiples of the speed of light or C^2, which is 7.5 minutes along an=
=20
arc of 21,600 minutes.  The energy vortexes at the grid points, may have a=20
resonant energy signature based on the equation e=3Dmc^2 and mathematical=20
spherical and vortex models of energy, which is unique, and which may tap=20
into other resonant energy signature vortexes on other Earth grid points, an=
d=20
grid points on other planets, and stellar objects throughout the universe by=
=20
means of 4 dimensional vortex energy tunnels between the grid points to allo=
w=20
ships and other objects which match the resonant frequencies of the grid=20
points at both ends of the 4d vortex tunnel to travel throught the 4=20
dimensional vortex at the speed of light or at multiples of the speed of=20
light.=20

d) an explanation of how b) and c) differ in light of a new theory

B and c above may differ from the standard physical model, since it=20
postulates that the Earth crust is a hollow sphere, similar to a bubble,=20
which resonates with the energy bubble spheres of 3rd dimensional=20
electromagnetic energies, and the 4th dimensional gravatic and time energies=
=20
at resonant spherical grid points along the multiples of the speed of light=20
based on the equations e=3Dmc^2, to create 4 dimensional energy vortexes at=20=
the=20
grid points to allow objects such as ships which resonant at the 4=20
dimensional frequencies of the vortex tunnel at both ends to travel between=20
the grid points at the speed of light or faster.   The ships and objects nee=
d=20
to cancel out the 3 dimensional electromagnetic energies of the ship with=20
nonlinear parametric force field technologies which use nonlinear vortex and=
=20
crossing circuits to reach and surround the ship in a force field of 4=20
dimensional vortex energies that match the resonant frequencies of the vorte=
x=20
grid points on Earth  to travel between the grid points at the speed of ligh=
t=20
or faster.  This above model may be similar to Maxwell's hidden 4th=20
dimensional physics, except that it also explains Teleportation based on=20
hollow bubble spherical models of the Earth and celestial objects.


Baron Von Volsung, <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\baron">www.rhfweb.com\baron</A>=
, Email: tom rhfweb.com
President Thomas D. Clark, tom rhfweb.com, <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\persona=
l">www.rhfweb.com\personal</A>
New Age Production's Inc., <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\newage">www.rhfweb.com\=
newage</A>
Star Haven Community Services, at <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\sh">www.rhfweb.c=
om\sh</A>
Radiation Health Foundation Trust at <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com">www.rhfweb.c=
om</A>


--part1_30.3d82557c.2bdb734d_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=
=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 4/25/2003 7:14:54 PM Eastern Daylig=
ht Time, andrew_ppp hotmail.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT=
: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">If you simply post <BR>
<BR>
a) an experimental protocol<BR>
b) a conventional explanation of the observations<BR>
c) the expected result of the observations<BR>
d) an explanation of how b) and c) differ in light of a new theory<BR>
<BR>
then everyone in the Group could get their arms around what you are <BR>
saying.<BR>
<BR>
-Andrew<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
<B>a) The experimental protocol </B><BR>
<BR>
Build a model of the Earth in the form of a metal or ceramic hollow bubble s=
phere, in order to determine the resonant frequencies of a hollow bubble sph=
ere which models Earth that may match the frequencies of 4d gravitational, t=
ime and 3d emf forces in the Earth or in hollow bubble spheres similar to Ea=
rth but smaller in proportion, and which may occure at the vortex points on=20=
a grid along the multipes of the speed of light based on the equation e=3Dmc=
^2.<BR>
<BR>
The pyramids for instance have resonant light energy frequencies, which crea=
te a cross 4d vortex formation at the base of the pyramid in the form of whi=
te light and which work upward in a Fibonacci spiral until they reach the po=
int of the pyramid's top, to allow many different forms of rainbow light ene=
rgy to resonant between the cross sections of the pyramid, so that certain r=
ooms and locations in the pyramid based on sacred geometrical laws such as t=
he Fibonacci and Golden mean spirals, allow for higher dimensional 4D energy=
 vortexes in the pyramid such as the Kings Chamber, that can heal the body a=
nd allow the body to teleport to other places.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>
<BR>
The mathematical models of the hollow spheres or bubbles that describe the r=
esonant frequencies of the bubble spheres modeling Earth's crust and the 3d=20=
electromagnetic and 4d time and gravatic energy force fields around the Eart=
h that meet at the 4d tunnel vortex points based on the equation e=3Dmc^2 ar=
e as follows:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D6=
 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">http://odin.math.nau.edu/~jw=
s/dpgraph/Yellm.html<BR>
<BR>
<P ALIGN=3DCENTER></FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:=
 #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><B>Spheric=
al Harmonics <BR>
<BR>
<P ALIGN=3DLEFT></B>"The Spherical Harmonics, Y<I>l</I>,m(</FONT><FONT  COLO=
R=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SERIF"=20=
FACE=3D"Symbol" LANG=3D"0">q</FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGRO=
UND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">=
, </FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=
=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Symbol" LANG=3D"0">j</FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#00=
0000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=
=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">), are functions defined on the sphere. They are used=20=
to describe the wave function of the electron in a hydrogen atom, oscillatio=
ns of a soap bubble, etc. The spherical harmonics describe non-symmetric sol=
utions to problems with spherical symmetry. The Y<I>l</I>,m=E2=80=99s are co=
mplex valued. The radius of the figure is the magnitude, and the color shows=
 the phase, of Y<I>l</I>,m(</FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROU=
ND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Symbol" LANG=3D"0">q</F=
ONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FA=
MILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">, </FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#00000=
0" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Sym=
bol" LANG=3D"0">j</FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:=20=
#ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">). These ar=
e the numbers on the unit circle: 1 is red, i is purple, -1 is cyan (light b=
lue), and -i is yellow-green. For each value of <I>l</I>, there are 2 <I>l</=
I> + 1 linearly independent functions Y<I>l</I>,m, where m =3D -<I>l</I>, -<=
I>l</I>+1, ... , <I>l</I>-1, <I>l</I>. I have chosen a different set of 2 <I=
>l</I> + 1 functions, as you see below. =C2=A0  =C2=A0   =C2=A0   <IMG  SRC=
=3D"http://odin.math.nau.edu/~jws/dpgraph/images/Yellm/Y00.jpg" WIDTH=3D"96"=
 HEIGHT=3D"72" BORDER=3D"0"> <BR>
Y0,0    =C2=A0   =C2=A0   =C2=A0   <BR>
=C2=A0   =C2=A0   <IMG  SRC=3D"http://odin.math.nau.edu/~jws/dpgraph/images/=
Yellm/ReY11.jpg" WIDTH=3D"96" HEIGHT=3D"72" BORDER=3D"0"> <BR>
Re(Y1,1)    <IMG  SRC=3D"http://odin.math.nau.edu/~jws/dpgraph/images/Yellm/=
Y10.jpg" WIDTH=3D"96" HEIGHT=3D"72" BORDER=3D"0"> <BR>
Y1,0    <IMG  SRC=3D"http://odin.math.nau.edu/~jws/dpgraph/images/Yellm/Y11.=
jpg" WIDTH=3D"96" HEIGHT=3D"72" BORDER=3D"0"> <BR>
Y1,1    =C2=A0   =C2=A0   <BR>
=C2=A0   <IMG  SRC=3D"http://odin.math.nau.edu/~jws/dpgraph/images/Yellm/ReY=
22.jpg" WIDTH=3D"96" HEIGHT=3D"72" BORDER=3D"0"> <BR>
Re(Y2,2)    <IMG  SRC=3D"http://odin.math.nau.edu/~jws/dpgraph/images/Yellm/=
ReY21.jpg" WIDTH=3D"96" HEIGHT=3D"72" BORDER=3D"0"> <BR>
Re(Y2,1)    <IMG  SRC=3D"http://odin.math.nau.edu/~jws/dpgraph/images/Yellm/=
Y20.jpg" WIDTH=3D"96" HEIGHT=3D"72" BORDER=3D"0"> <BR>
Y2,0    <IMG  SRC=3D"http://odin.math.nau.edu/~jws/dpgraph/images/Yellm/Y21.=
jpg" WIDTH=3D"96" HEIGHT=3D"72" BORDER=3D"0"> <BR>
Y2,1    <IMG  SRC=3D"http://odin.math.nau.edu/~jws/dpgraph/images/Yellm/Y22.=
jpg" WIDTH=3D"96" HEIGHT=3D"72" BORDER=3D"0"> <BR>
Y2,2    =C2=A0   <BR>
<IMG  SRC=3D"http://odin.math.nau.edu/~jws/dpgraph/images/Yellm/ReY33.jpg" W=
IDTH=3D"96" HEIGHT=3D"72" BORDER=3D"0"> <BR>
Re(Y3,3)    <IMG  SRC=3D"http://odin.math.nau.edu/~jws/dpgraph/images/Yellm/=
ReY32.jpg" WIDTH=3D"96" HEIGHT=3D"72" BORDER=3D"0"> <BR>
Re(Y3,2)    <IMG  SRC=3D"http://odin.math.nau.edu/~jws/dpgraph/images/Yellm/=
ReY31.jpg" WIDTH=3D"96" HEIGHT=3D"72" BORDER=3D"0"> <BR>
Re(Y3,1)    <IMG  SRC=3D"http://odin.math.nau.edu/~jws/dpgraph/images/Yellm/=
Y30.jpg" WIDTH=3D"96" HEIGHT=3D"72" BORDER=3D"0"> <BR>
Y3,0    <IMG  SRC=3D"http://odin.math.nau.edu/~jws/dpgraph/images/Yellm/Y31.=
jpg" WIDTH=3D"96" HEIGHT=3D"72" BORDER=3D"0"> <BR>
Y3,1    <IMG  SRC=3D"http://odin.math.nau.edu/~jws/dpgraph/images/Yellm/Y32.=
jpg" WIDTH=3D"96" HEIGHT=3D"72" BORDER=3D"0"> <BR>
Y3,2    <IMG  SRC=3D"http://odin.math.nau.edu/~jws/dpgraph/images/Yellm/Y33.=
jpg" WIDTH=3D"96" HEIGHT=3D"72" BORDER=3D"0"> <BR>
Y3,3    <BR>
<BR>
The following figure is called =E2=80=9Cinside Y2,2=E2=80=9D. My son, <A HRE=
F=3D"http://users.safeaccess.com/swift">Michael</A>, made this by holding do=
wn the =E2=80=9CPage Up=E2=80=9D key until the viewpoint gets <I>inside</I>=20=
the surface. (He suggests that you set the figure rotating continuously, and=
 move the viewpoint a bit down before zooming in.) <BR>
<P ALIGN=3DCENTER><IMG  SRC=3D"http://odin.math.nau.edu/~jws/dpgraph/images/=
Yellm/insideY22.gif" WIDTH=3D"505" HEIGHT=3D"340" BORDER=3D"0"> <BR>
<P ALIGN=3DLEFT><B>Oscillations of a Soap Bubble</B> <BR>
The volume of the bubble is constant, so Y0,0 is not used. The center of mas=
s of the bubble is constant, so Y1,m is not used. The lowest frequency oscil=
lations of a soap bubble are <I>l</I> =3D 2. The radius of the soap film is=20=
</FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2=
 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Symbol" LANG=3D"0">r</FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000=
" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"=
Arial" LANG=3D"0"> =3D 1 + </FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROU=
ND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Symbol" LANG=3D"0">e</F=
ONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FA=
MILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> Y2,m (</FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#=
000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=
=3D"Symbol" LANG=3D"0">q</FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-=
COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">, </=
FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 F=
AMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Symbol" LANG=3D"0">j</FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000"=20=
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Ar=
ial" LANG=3D"0">). The oscillations with different m all have the same frequ=
ency. The shape of the oscillations with <A HREF=3D"http://odin.math.nau.edu=
/~jws/dpgraph/dpgfiles/Yellm/Y21oscillation.dpg">m =3D 1</A> and <A HREF=3D"=
http://odin.math.nau.edu/~jws/dpgraph/dpgfiles/Yellm/Y22oscillation.dpg">m=20=
=3D 2</A> are the same up to a rotation, but the <A HREF=3D"http://odin.math=
.nau.edu/~jws/dpgraph/dpgfiles/Yellm/Y20oscillation.dpg">m =3D 0</A> oscilla=
tion is different. <B>Physics and Math notation</B> <BR>
WARNING: Spherical coordinates are different in physics and mathematics. The=
 symbols </FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=
 SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Symbol" LANG=3D"0">q</FONT><FONT  COLOR=
=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERI=
F" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> and </FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"B=
ACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Symbol" LANG=3D"=
0">j</FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=
=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> are switched! The math=20=
notation makes r and </FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COL=
OR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Symbol" LANG=3D"0">q</FONT><F=
ONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=
=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> the same in cylincrical and spheri=
cal coordinates. <BR>
<BR>
<P ALIGN=3DCENTER>x2 + y2 + z2 =3D r2 (physics) =3D </FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#=
000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=
=3D"Symbol" LANG=3D"0">r</FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-=
COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">2 (m=
ath) <BR>
arccos(z/</FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=
 SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Symbol" LANG=3D"0">r</FONT><FONT  COLOR=
=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERI=
F" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">) =3D </FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"=
BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Symbol" LANG=
=3D"0">q</FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20=
SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> (physics) =3D </FON=
T><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMI=
LY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Symbol" LANG=3D"0">j</FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" sty=
le=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial=
" LANG=3D"0"> (math) <BR>
arctan(y/x) + n </FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #=
ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Symbol" LANG=3D"0">p</FONT><FONT =20=
COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SAN=
SSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> =3D </FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=
=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Symbol" LAN=
G=3D"0">j</FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=
 SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> (physics) =3D </FO=
NT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAM=
ILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Symbol" LANG=3D"0">q</FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" st=
yle=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Aria=
l" LANG=3D"0"> (math) "<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<P ALIGN=3DLEFT><BR>
A mathematical&nbsp; model of the earth's crust sphere which is about 1000 m=
iles thick with holes at the top and bottom, if you believe that the Earth i=
s a hollow sphere similar to a soap bubble, can be interfaced with the mathe=
matical spherical models of gravity, time, and electromagnetic force field b=
ubbles surrounding Earth, and also within the Earth, so that the 4d spiral v=
ortex grid points defined by 21,600 minutes on a sphere that may cross over=20=
in a spiral vortex between the different bubble force fields in and around E=
arth in the 3rd electromagnetic dimensions and the 4th gravatic and time dim=
ensions may be mapped onto the Earth at vortex grid points every 7.5 minutes=
 in harmonic ratios of the speed of light, energy and matter from the equati=
on e=3Dmc^2.&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>
<BR>
The mathematical spherical models of all of the forces of energy in terms of=
 electromagnetic light, matter, time, and gravity in spherical rotating obje=
cts in the solar system, galaxy, and universe, may also be interfaced into a=
 4 dimensional map with spherical bubble gravity, time, matter, and light gr=
ids that intersect at the resonant 4d vortex points that describes Earth's g=
rid map, to describe the resonant tunneling 4 dimensional vortex points betw=
een the Earth and other rotating objects in the solar system and universe su=
ch as planets, stars, and rotating clusters of stellar formations. <BR>
<BR>
The logical data obtained from the above mathematical models may be placed o=
nto a computer with a Math Cad program to simulate the model.&nbsp;&nbsp; Th=
e experimental data that may be feed into the above mathematical models may=20=
be obtained by measuring the 3 dimensional electricalmagnetic forces with a=20=
gauss meter and a volt meter, and gravity forces with a gravity gradiometer=20=
obtained from the expected vortex grid points on the grid arcs at every 7.5=20=
minutes along the miniature ceramic hollow bubble model of the Earth's crust=
,&nbsp; and from measurements of the real Earth. </FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000=
000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=
=3D"arial" LANG=3D"0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2=
 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BR>
<B>b) a conventional explanation of the observations</B><BR>
<BR>
The data observed from the above mathematical models and experimental empiri=
cal models should show that the different bubble models of the matter of the=
 hollow Earth or the crust, interfaces in a 4 dimensional vortex with the 3=20=
dimensional electromagnetic force field bubble energies and the gravatic for=
ce field bubble energies of the Earth, at the resonant grid points described=
 by minutes on an arc of the Earth every 7.5 minutes along the multiples of=20=
the speed of light based on the equation e=3Dmc^2.<BR>
<BR>
<B>c) the expected result of the observations</B><BR>
<BR>
The results of the experiments should show that the 4d energy vortexes that=20=
interface between the different energy dimensions of the Earth modeled as sp=
herical bubbles, from 3 dimensional electromagnetic, and 4 dimensional grava=
tic, may occur at the resonant grid points on an arc which is divisible by t=
he multiples of the speed of light or C^2, which is 7.5 minutes along an arc=
 of 21,600 minutes.&nbsp; The energy vortexes at the grid points, may have a=
 resonant energy signature based on the equation e=3Dmc^2 and mathematical s=
pherical and vortex models of energy, which is unique, and which may tap int=
o other resonant energy signature vortexes on other Earth grid points, and g=
rid points on other planets, and stellar objects throughout the universe by=20=
means of 4 dimensional vortex energy tunnels between the grid points to allo=
w ships and other objects which match the resonant frequencies of the grid p=
oints at both ends of the 4d vortex tunnel to travel throught the 4 dimensio=
nal vortex at the speed of light or at multiples of the speed of light. <BR>
<BR>
<B>d) an explanation of how b) and c) differ in light of a new theory</B><BR=
>
<BR>
B and c above may differ from the standard physical model, since it postulat=
es that the Earth crust is a hollow sphere, similar to a bubble, which reson=
ates with the energy bubble spheres of 3rd dimensional electromagnetic energ=
ies, and the 4th dimensional gravatic and time energies at resonant spherica=
l grid points along the multiples of the speed of light based on the equatio=
ns e=3Dmc^2, to create 4 dimensional energy vortexes at the grid points to a=
llow objects such as ships which resonant at the 4 dimensional frequencies o=
f the vortex tunnel at both ends to travel between the grid points at the sp=
eed of light or faster.&nbsp;&nbsp; The ships and objects need to cancel out=
 the 3 dimensional electromagnetic energies of the ship with nonlinear param=
etric force field technologies which use nonlinear vortex and crossing circu=
its to reach and surround the ship in a force field of 4 dimensional vortex=20=
energies that match the resonant frequencies of the vortex grid points on Ea=
rth&nbsp; to travel between the grid points at the speed of light or faster.=
&nbsp; This above model may be similar to Maxwell's hidden 4th dimensional p=
hysics, except that it also explains Teleportation based on hollow bubble sp=
herical models of the Earth and celestial objects.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Baron Von Volsung, <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\baron">www.rhfweb.com\baron</A>=
, Email: tom rhfweb.com<BR>
President Thomas D. Clark, tom rhfweb.com, <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\persona=
l">www.rhfweb.com\personal</A><BR>
New Age Production's Inc., <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\newage">www.rhfweb.com\=
newage</A><BR>
Star Haven Community Services, at <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\sh">www.rhfweb.c=
om\sh</A><BR>
Radiation Health Foundation Trust at <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com">www.rhfweb.c=
om</A><BR>
<BR>
</P></P></P></P></P></P></FONT></HTML>
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Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 12:37:16 +0100 (BST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?millennium?= <unamity yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [QuantumCavorite] Aether-Wave Computer Modelling by Dr. Jay!
To: QuantumCavorite yahoogroups.com
Cc: NPA_Dissidents egroups.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com, greenglow@yahoogroups.com,
        jlnlabs yahoogroups.com, gravitationalAnomalies@yahoogroups.com,
        nanocep yahoogroups.com, newelectrogravity@yahoogroups.com,
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...

Dr. Jay!


thanks for getting back to me!  And looking forward
to your simulation!! [I don't suppose you write
software for the MacIntosh??]

Sorry if you thought I was being simplistic in
my description of the mathematics of nature.!  I
was being complete -- to show nature in a thousand
times more detail than covert physics.  A thousand
times, and more, detail than 'Quantum Physics'!

That is -- there are no 'photons'!

[There are NO photon particles!  No POINT charges!
No points in nature!]

[There are, of couse, quantized energy transfers
in nature.  But no points in motion, or in
existence!!]

the electron is eight times larger in radius
than the proton!  It is a volume, a vortex,
of aenertia, motion, wave action.  But not
'waves' in the sense of points plotting a curve --
instead, a continuum field of experience. A continuum
gradient of electric and magnetic experiences!

Read the "Undiscovered Phyics" if you like!

It is easy to read -- for anyone who reads
English, and has a little bit of physics background.

for that matter, most of it is comprehensible to
people who only have rundimentary English capabilities,
and much of it -- to the people of the world with
no English-language ability.  That is why it is
published as illustrations!

If you look at the proof of metric relativity --
you will find out what 'charge' is, and energy
and mass -- and that they are NOT fundamental
concepts  ...

The math is trivial -- as is ALL math in nature.
I didn't spend thirty years studying this for
nothing.  [Ten years doing nothing else!]

The equation is a sine function.  Easy.

And you know what a helicoid is, a spiral,
which propagates ... as a screw ...

 http://free.freespeech.org/rapture/creation/CREATIONp1.html
 http://free.freespeech.org/rapture/creation/CREATIONp10.html

See too:

  http://free.freespeech.org/rapture/scarlet/REDp70.html
  http://free.freespeech.org/rapture/scarlet/REDp71.html

Or essentially half the pages of the "Undiscovered 
Physics" to see illustrations of helicoids.

We are describing electromagnetic waves, from nature,
not from institutional physics.  Not from institutional
math.  That math does not apply in nature!

As there are no points, no straight lines, etc.
in nature.

Again, if you need an equation to PLOT the printing
of the helicoidal aether waves and lightwaves
(and the EM volumes which are electrons and proton),
or to throw a beam of electrons against the
screen of your computer, it is a sine function,
as described in my previous letter to you.

i.e., just write out equations for the
x, y and z as sinusoidal functions of time  ...

that is, write out the equation for plotting
a circle, in the XY plane, with the point
or plotter moving around the circumference
of the circle as a function of time.

x = sin(t); y = cos(t); [t = time]

if plotted this way, then it appears as a
circle, a one-loop lissajous figure, on the
surface of the computer screen.

change it to x = sin(t), y = 0, z = cos(t)
and you see it as a two dimensional circle
sideways, as a line!

change it to y = a sin(t), z =  b cos(t), and 
x = c t -- and you have the helicoid, propagating
away off the side of your computer screen !!
(or top, if you let y = c t.)

[a, b and c are constants which you can
select to vary the ellipsoidal properties
in both the lateral (electric vector) direction,
and the longitudinal (magnetic vector) direction.]

By switching x and y, you get the helicoid
propagating upward, rather than sideways.  [Later
we can add a constant function of t to x,y or z
in order to veer the helicoid off at different
angles with respect to the viewer.

[as in y = t/d + {a sin(t)}; z =  t/e + {b cos(t)};
and x = t/f +{c t} ... with d, e and f being
additional constants.]

Thanks again for making me review this!!

[I am sure you will see if I made any
mistakes here ...]

It is six years or so since I was looking at how
to plot nature (SIMPLE NATURE) on the computer
screen with algebra!  [Addition, multiplication,
subtraction and addition are the ONLY functions
which take place in nature!!]

Best regards!  And looking forward to your
participation in building our X49 scramjet
engines, and predecessor bench-top rocket
engine, if that interests you.

For Mother Sun, Moon, and Milky Way!



Millennium


http://free.freespeech.org/rapture/proof
http://free.freespeech.org/rapture/amend
http://free.freespeech.org/rapture/proton
http://free.freespeech.org/rapture/electron
http://free.freespeech.org/rapture/FTL
http://free.freespeech.org/rapture/scarlet
http://free.freespeech.org/rapture/creation


...

now in our 22nd day of global fasting
for world peace ...

http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/worldfast

...

satyagraha -- fasting protest ...

Gandhi named this concept of action: "satyagraha"
(combining the Hindu words for "truth"
and "holding firmly.")




..






.


__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus
For a better Internet experience
http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer

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Vortex, Gravity, & Teleportation Mathematics Theory

Teleportation between two points in space-time may be achieved by finding 
higher dimensional energy vortexes which allow an object to travel faster 
than the speed of light and eventually reaching an infinite speed of light by 
increasing the amount of energy available to the object as the object travels 
into an energy vortex.   The equation e=mc^2 can be changed to the equation 
e/m=c^2, so that as the speed of light increases to faster than c, so does 
the amount of energy available to the objects mass.   An energy vortex 
increases the amount of energy available to an objects mass and thereby 
increasing the speed of light of the object as the object moves into the 
energy vortex, by using the Fibonacci spiral describing vortex geometry's, 
which cancels out lower dimensional electrogravatic energies, and allows the 
object to move into higher dimensional energy levels in an energy vortex.
There may be a correspondence which states that each loop of an energy 
vortex, may increase the speed of light and energy of the object in the 
vortex exponentially or by a factor of 2 logarithmically until the speed of 
light reaches infinity. The first entrance ring of a higher dimensional 
energy vortex should be at the speed of light squared or log 2c, and then may 
gradually progress to the speed of light cubed, or log 3c, in the next spiral 
of the vortex, and so on, until the speed of light reaches infinity. 

Assuming energy vortexes as described above can be found on Earth and on 
other celestial objects, we must ask ourselves how to enter an energy vortex 
and how to travel between two energy vortexes on one planet and between 
planets and celestial objects. 

In order to locate any point on any celestial object in the multiverse 
precisely,  we need to describe a geometrical reference frame, which matches 
the orbital rotation of a celestial object around the center of gravity of 
the objects orbit.  An object on a planet orbits around the center of gravity 
of the planet, and a planet orbits around the center of gravity of the sun, 
and the sun orbits around the center of gravity of a cluster of stars, and 
clusters of stars orbit around the center of gravity of a galaxy, and 
galaxies rotate around the center of gravity of a universe, and a universe 
may rotate around the center of gravity of a multiverse in many higher energy 
dimensions and parallel timelines.   

The gravity signature of any object at any specific point in time and place 
in a universe, will uniquely define the objects location in the universe, 
since gravity is dependent on the objects location from the center of mass of 
the sources of gravity in the universe.  We can use the gravity signature of 
any object, and of any energy vortex entrance opening and exit opening to 
define the precise coordinates of Teleportation between two points through an 
energy vortex or wormhole within the universe.   If a ship is to be used to 
teleport  between two points through an energy vortex, then the gravity of 
the ship must change to match the gravity of the entrance of the energy 
vortex, and as the gravity of the ship changes as it travels into the energy 
vortex, so will the speed of light of the ship allowing the ship to reach 
infinite speed, and when the ship is in the energy vortex at a higher energy 
dimensional state, then the ship needs to only change its gravity signature 
to leave the energy vortex and arrive at the exit point of another energy 
vortex, and at a point in the universe which has the desired gravity 
signature of the desired location.

There should be 4 dimensional and higher energy vortexes on each celestial 
object in the universe, linking each celestial object to each other in the 
higher dimensional planes of energy based on the gravatics of the celestial 
objects.  A bipolar energy vortex or wormhole with a specific gravity 
signature for each end of the wormhole vortex between any celestial object 
such as a planet and another celestial object such as the Sun it orbits 
should exist, which should allow a ship to teleport along many vortexes 
between celestial objects to get to any point in the universe.  There can 
also be anti-matter energetic vortex force fields which may jam the safe 
passage of a ship through a vortex or wormhole, so that a test probe should 
be sent through any vortex or wormhole to before the ship, to make sure that 
the passage is safe. 

Baron Von Volsung, <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com\baron">www.rhfweb.com\baron</A>, Email: tom rhfweb.com
President Thomas D. Clark, tom rhfweb.com, <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com\personal">www.rhfweb.com\personal</A>
New Age Production's Inc., <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com\newage">www.rhfweb.com\newage</A>
Star Haven Community Services, at <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com\sh">www.rhfweb.com\sh</A>
Radiation Health Foundation Trust at <A HREF="www.rhfweb.com">www.rhfweb.com</A>


--part1_19d.140892ea.2bdc8869_boundary
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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=
=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Vortex, Gravity, &amp; Teleportation Mathematics Theor=
y<BR>
<BR>
Teleportation between two points in space-time may be achieved by finding hi=
gher dimensional energy vortexes which allow an object to travel faster than=
 the speed of light and eventually reaching an infinite speed of light by in=
creasing the amount of energy available to the object as the object travels=20=
into an energy vortex.&nbsp;&nbsp; The equation e=3Dmc^2 can be changed to t=
he equation e/m=3Dc^2, so that as the speed of light increases to faster tha=
n c, so does the amount of energy available to the objects mass.&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 An energy vortex increases the amount of energy available to an objects mas=
s and thereby increasing the speed of light of the object as the object move=
s into the energy vortex, by using the Fibonacci spiral describing vortex ge=
ometry's, which cancels out lower dimensional electrogravatic energies, and=20=
allows the object to move into higher dimensional energy levels in an energy=
 vortex.<BR>
There may be a correspondence which states that each loop of an energy vorte=
x, may increase the speed of light and energy of the object in the vortex ex=
ponentially or by a factor of 2 logarithmically until the speed of light rea=
ches infinity. The first entrance ring of a higher dimensional energy vortex=
 should be at the speed of light squared or log 2c, and then may gradually p=
rogress to the speed of light cubed, or log 3c, in the next spiral of the vo=
rtex, and so on, until the speed of light reaches infinity. <BR>
<BR>
Assuming energy vortexes as described above can be found on Earth and on oth=
er celestial objects, we must ask ourselves how to enter an energy vortex an=
d how to travel between two energy vortexes on one planet and between planet=
s and celestial objects. <BR>
<BR>
In order to locate any point on any celestial object in the multiverse preci=
sely,&nbsp; we need to describe a geometrical reference frame, which matches=
 the orbital rotation of a celestial object around the center of gravity of=20=
the objects orbit.&nbsp; An object on a planet orbits around the center of g=
ravity of the planet, and a planet orbits around the center of gravity of th=
e sun, and the sun orbits around the center of gravity of a cluster of stars=
, and clusters of stars orbit around the center of gravity of a galaxy, and=20=
galaxies rotate around the center of gravity of a universe, and a universe m=
ay rotate around the center of gravity of a multiverse in many higher energy=
 dimensions and parallel timelines.&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>
<BR>
The gravity signature of any object at any specific point in time and place=20=
in a universe, will uniquely define the objects location in the universe, si=
nce gravity is dependent on the objects location from the center of mass of=20=
the sources of gravity in the universe.&nbsp; We can use the gravity signatu=
re of any object, and of any energy vortex entrance opening and exit opening=
 to define the precise coordinates of Teleportation between two points throu=
gh an energy vortex or wormhole within the universe.&nbsp;&nbsp; If a ship i=
s to be used to teleport&nbsp; between two points through an energy vortex,=20=
then the gravity of the ship must change to match the gravity of the entranc=
e of the energy vortex, and as the gravity of the ship changes as it travels=
 into the energy vortex, so will the speed of light of the ship allowing the=
 ship to reach infinite speed, and when the ship is in the energy vortex at=20=
a higher energy dimensional state, then the ship needs to only change its gr=
avity signature to leave the energy vortex and arrive at the exit point of a=
nother energy vortex, and at a point in the universe which has the desired g=
ravity signature of the desired location.<BR>
<BR>
There should be 4 dimensional and higher energy vortexes on each celestial o=
bject in the universe, linking each celestial object to each other in the hi=
gher dimensional planes of energy based on the gravatics of the celestial ob=
jects.&nbsp; A bipolar energy vortex or wormhole with a specific gravity sig=
nature for each end of the wormhole vortex between any celestial object such=
 as a planet and another celestial object such as the Sun it orbits should e=
xist, which should allow a ship to teleport along many vortexes between cele=
stial objects to get to any point in the universe.&nbsp; There can also be a=
nti-matter energetic vortex force fields which may jam the safe passage of a=
 ship through a vortex or wormhole, so that a test probe should be sent thro=
ugh any vortex or wormhole to before the ship, to make sure that the passage=
 is safe. <BR>
<BR>
Baron Von Volsung, <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\baron">www.rhfweb.com\baron</A>=
, Email: tom rhfweb.com<BR>
President Thomas D. Clark, tom rhfweb.com, <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\persona=
l">www.rhfweb.com\personal</A><BR>
New Age Production's Inc., <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\newage">www.rhfweb.com\=
newage</A><BR>
Star Haven Community Services, at <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com\sh">www.rhfweb.c=
om\sh</A><BR>
Radiation Health Foundation Trust at <A HREF=3D"www.rhfweb.com">www.rhfweb.c=
om</A><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_19d.140892ea.2bdc8869_boundary--

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From: "Jones Beene" <jonesb9 pacbell.net>
To: "vortex" <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Thunderstorm in an teapot
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Some thoughts based upon applying "Kelvin's Thunderstorm" phenomenon =
(i.e. Lord Kelvin's water-drop electrostatic generator from Bill B's =
site) to a water-fueled internal combustion engine, or ICE. =20

As stated on the site, a very simple high-voltage generator can be built =
just from a can of dripping water using no moving parts. Several =
thousand volts can magically appear from induced charge imbalance and =
it's not too hard to create a large imbalance - just an electrostatic =
field (not really static, but low current)

If we applied a variation of the technique to a "capacitor-like" =
container containing an ultrasonic water mister, one would expected that =
a "charged cold fog" would emerge. What would be some of the properties =
of this medium, and is it a true cold plasma ?

Last year, I posted some speculation about the *Hydrated Electron,* =
which could be a possible "back door" to catalyzed water-splitting. Here =
is a reworded version of that idea that attempts to encompass a type of =
"combustion" where the fuel appears to be only water.... But things are =
seldom as simple as they may seem at times...

In 1963, a new kind of *ion* or virtual ion - the hydrated electron - =
was discovered by Argonne chemist Edwin Hort. The hydrated electron may =
be thought of as resulting from the temporary interaction of a negative =
electron with the positive end of a polar water molecule,  but with less =
energy than would be required to form the normal water ions.=20

The lowered energy of ionization is the key factor to keep in mind. The =
theoretical "effective temperature" or ionized water is over 100,000 =
degrees. If virtual ionization is accomplished at far less energy input, =
then converting the ion from "virtual" to "real" is the major impediment =
for coalescing "free energy," but that may happen in a complex fashion.

This kind of temporary ionization is somewhat analogous to the formation =
of hydronium ions by interaction of a positive proton (H+) with the =
negative end of a water molecule. Hydrated electrons may interact with =
H30+ or hydronium ions or with paired water molecules. These reactions =
produce another very important short-lived reactive species, atomic =
hydrogen. Plus, other ions on occasion that may themselves be hydrino =
catalysts.

Hort's discovery  was considered a major breakthrough in 1963 but even =
today the dynamics of this fleeting species are not very well =
appreciated. Hort was doing research on pulsed radiation of water. =
Unexpectedly, his spectrograph indicated a blue absorption band ! and =
perhaps equally unexpectedly thirty years later, a new door to "free =
energy" is beginning to be cracked open. It is likely that this virtual =
ion, the hydrated-electron is a contributing source for hydrino =
formation as well.

Excess electrons, when they can be reluctantly coaxed into liquids, play =
a central role in photochemistry and photoelectrochemistry - and the =
hydrated electron ((e-)aq ) is a ubiquitous transient species in =
irradiated aqueous systems. It has a very short lifetime and that is =
probably why it went undetected for so many years in electrochemistry =
prior to '63 and why even today some electrochemists are not fully =
cognizant of its potential impact.

Dainton, in 1966, proposed a possible way to generate a hydrated =
electron by photoionization. He concluded that the radiation should lie =
in the vacuum UV region, since he expected that something near the =
ionization potential of the water molecule (12.56 eV) should be =
determinative, but later experiments showed an energy balance that is =
surprisingly more favorable.

Sokolow and Stein found that hydrated electrons were formed upon =
irradiation of water at 6.8 eV (184.9 nm) by a mercury lamp. It was =
already known that mercury lamp radiation generates surprising amounts =
of hydrogen. The detected (e-)aq yield is approximately 10% of that for =
hydrogen atom in these experiments, and that is surprising considering =
how short-lived the ion is, and how this transience affects detection - =
plus it is not clear to what extent the hydrated electron might itself =
catalyze the water splitting and thereafter disappear in the process. =
Other experiments have found these electrons at even far lower radiation =
energies.

In 1998 Kazunari Domen at Tokyo Institute of Technology reported that a =
powdered cuprous oxide catalyst could split water at room temperature. =
This reaction can take place at high temps and when driven by light, but =
now he reports that the reaction continues in the dark for hundreds of =
hours. The quicker the container is stirred, the more hydrogen and =
oxygen are produced . Domen believes that the mechanical energy is =
converted to chemical energy without first being converted to thermal =
energy. But it is more likely that something else may be occurring, such =
as friction between the catalyst and the glass container causing a =
triboelectric build-up of charge resulting in numerous hydrated =
electrons that catalyze the reaction.

Ultimately, of course, if some kind of positive OU energy balance is =
ever discovered in water-splitting or water-fuel, the "excess" energy =
will still have to be derived from somewhere, and that "somewhere" is =
likely to be intimately associated with the hydrogen atom, even if =
"beta-aether" and the zero point field are also involved. =20

We know that the overall prospect of capturing the annihilation energy =
of "virtual pairs" is hopeless because their lifetime in our 3-space is =
far too short to be a viable source of free energy, ZPE theories =
notwithstanding. And even for the much longer lived electron-positron =
pair, the prospect of capturing positrons from the vacuum seems =
intractable.=20

But Heisenberg's door may be cracked open just far enough to admit, not =
the positron itself but its "wake". i.e. its 6.8 eV binding energy with =
its virtual electron. This binding energy is but a tiny fraction of the =
positron or electron  mass/energy of ~ .5 MeV, or a GeV if they were to =
actually annihilate in our 3-space, but still it isn't too shabby, more =
than what one gets from hydrogen combustion. The proven Lamb shift could =
be indicative of the ongoing reality of this phenomenon.

If a 6.8 eV binding energy photon turns out to be the most "natural" =
gateway to free energy coherence, it is a consequence of the positrons =
and electron having just enough time to form a fleeting virtual atom, =
positronium (Ps) which is anisotropically disrupted by proximity to =
something locally before fading into someone else's 3-space, leaving a =
"hole" so to speak, a 6.8 eV hole, which not coincidentally is an exact  =
multiple of Mills' 27.2 energy hole. Perhaps Mills is off by a factor of =
4 !

The key to all of this in an operating device (and also its Achilles =
heel) is that ion density will be a critical parameter. Is that why =
water-fuel is associated with piston engines and their ability to create =
an alternating series of vacuum-compression states?

Jones
=20

Forget your perfect offering=20
There is a crack in everything=20
That's how the light gets in

Leonard Cohen




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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"><BASE=20
href=3D"file://C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft =
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<STYLE>BODY {
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<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>
<DIV>Some thoughts based upon applying "Kelvin's Thunderstorm" =
phenomenon (i.e.=20
Lord Kelvin's water-drop electrostatic generator from&nbsp;Bill B's =
site) to a=20
water-fueled internal combustion engine, or ICE.&nbsp; </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>As stated on the site, a very simple high-voltage generator can be =
built=20
just from a can of dripping water using no moving parts. Several =
thousand volts=20
can magically appear&nbsp;from induced charge imbalance and it's not too =
hard to=20
create a large imbalance - just an electrostatic field (not really =
static, but=20
low current)</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>If we applied a variation of the technique to a "capacitor-like" =
container=20
containing an ultrasonic water mister, one would expected that a =
"charged cold=20
fog" would emerge. What would be some of&nbsp;the properties of this =
medium, and=20
is it a true cold plasma ?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Last year, I posted some speculation about the *Hydrated Electron,* =
which=20
could be a possible&nbsp;"back door" to catalyzed water-splitting. Here =
is a=20
reworded version of that idea that attempts to encompass a type of =
"combustion"=20
where the fuel appears to be only water.... But&nbsp;things are =
seldom&nbsp;as=20
simple as&nbsp;they may&nbsp;seem at times...</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>In 1963, a new kind of&nbsp;*ion* or virtual ion - the hydrated =
electron -=20
was discovered by Argonne chemist Edwin Hort. The hydrated electron may =
be=20
thought of as resulting from the temporary interaction of a negative =
electron=20
with the positive end of a polar water molecule,&nbsp; but with less =
energy than=20
would be required to form the normal water ions. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The lowered energy of ionization is&nbsp;the key factor to keep in =
mind.=20
The theoretical "effective temperature" or ionized water is over 100,000 =

degrees. If&nbsp;virtual ionization&nbsp;is accomplished at far less =
energy=20
input, then converting&nbsp;the ion&nbsp;from "virtual" to "real" is the =
major=20
impediment for coalescing "free energy," but that may happen in a =
complex=20
fashion.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>This&nbsp;kind of temporary ionization is&nbsp;somewhat analogous =
to the=20
formation of hydronium ions by interaction of a positive proton (H+) =
with the=20
negative end of a water molecule. Hydrated electrons may interact with =
H30+ or=20
hydronium ions or with paired water molecules. These reactions produce =
another=20
very important&nbsp;short-lived reactive species, atomic hydrogen. Plus, =
other=20
ions on occasion&nbsp;that may themselves be hydrino catalysts.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Hort's discovery &nbsp;was considered a major breakthrough in 1963 =
but even=20
today&nbsp;the dynamics of this fleeting species&nbsp;are not very well=20
appreciated. Hort was doing research on pulsed radiation of water. =
Unexpectedly,=20
his spectrograph indicated a blue absorption band ! and perhaps equally=20
unexpectedly thirty years later, a new door to "free energy" is =
beginning to be=20
cracked open. It is likely that this virtual ion, the hydrated-electron =
is a=20
contributing source for hydrino formation as well.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial>Excess electrons, when they can be =
reluctantly=20
coaxed into liquids, play a central role in photochemistry and=20
photoelectrochemistry - and the hydrated electron ((e-)aq ) is a =
ubiquitous=20
transient species in irradiated aqueous systems. It has a very short =
lifetime=20
and that is probably why it went undetected for so many years in=20
electrochemistry prior to '63 and why even today some electrochemists =
are not=20
fully cognizant of its potential impact.</DIV></FONT>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Dainton, in 1966, proposed a possible way to generate a hydrated =
electron=20
by photoionization. He concluded that the radiation should lie in the =
vacuum UV=20
region, since he expected that something near the ionization potential =
of the=20
water molecule (12.56 eV) should be determinative, but later experiments =
showed=20
an energy balance that is surprisingly more favorable.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Sokolow and Stein found that hydrated electrons were formed upon=20
irradiation of water at 6.8 eV (184.9 nm) by a mercury lamp. It was =
already=20
known that mercury lamp radiation generates surprising amounts =
of&nbsp;hydrogen.=20
The detected (e-)aq yield is approximately 10% of that for hydrogen atom =
in=20
these experiments, and that is surprising considering how short-lived =
the ion=20
is, and how this transience affects detection - plus it is not clear to =
what=20
extent the hydrated electron might itself catalyze the water splitting =
and=20
thereafter disappear in the process. Other experiments have found these=20
electrons at even far lower radiation energies.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>In 1998&nbsp;Kazunari Domen at Tokyo Institute of Technology =
reported that=20
a powdered cuprous oxide catalyst could split water at room temperature. =
This=20
reaction can take place at high temps and when driven by light, but now =
he=20
reports that the reaction continues in the dark for hundreds of hours. =
The=20
quicker the container is stirred, the more hydrogen and oxygen are =
produced .=20
Domen believes that the mechanical energy is converted to chemical =
energy=20
without first being converted to thermal energy. But it is more likely =
that=20
something else may be&nbsp;occurring, such as friction between the =
catalyst and=20
the glass container causing a triboelectric build-up of charge resulting =
in=20
numerous hydrated electrons that catalyze the reaction.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Ultimately, of course, if some kind of positive OU energy balance =
is ever=20
discovered in water-splitting or water-fuel, the "excess" energy will =
still have=20
to be derived from somewhere, and that "somewhere" is likely to be =
intimately=20
associated with the hydrogen atom, even if "beta-aether" and the zero =
point=20
field&nbsp;are also&nbsp;involved.&nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>We know that the overall prospect of capturing the annihilation =
energy of=20
"virtual pairs" is hopeless because their lifetime in our =
3-space&nbsp;is far=20
too short to be a viable source of free energy, ZPE theories=20
notwithstanding.&nbsp;And even for the much longer lived =
electron-positron pair,=20
the prospect of capturing positrons from the vacuum seems intractable. =
</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>But Heisenberg's door may be cracked open just far enough to admit, =
not the=20
positron itself but&nbsp;its "wake". i.e. its 6.8 eV binding energy with =
its=20
virtual electron. This binding energy is but a tiny fraction of the =
positron or=20
electron&nbsp; mass/energy of ~ .5 MeV, or a GeV if they were to =
actually=20
annihilate in our 3-space, but still it isn't too shabby, more than what =
one=20
gets from hydrogen combustion. The proven Lamb shift could be indicative =
of the=20
ongoing reality of this phenomenon.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>If&nbsp;a 6.8&nbsp;eV binding energy photon turns out to be the=20
most&nbsp;"natural" gateway to free energy coherence, it is a =
consequence of the=20
positrons and electron having just enough time to form a fleeting =
virtual atom,=20
positronium (Ps) which is anisotropically disrupted by proximity to =
something=20
locally before fading into someone else's 3-space,&nbsp;leaving a "hole" =
so to=20
speak, a 6.8 eV hole, which&nbsp;not coincidentally is an exact =
&nbsp;multiple=20
of Mills'&nbsp;27.2&nbsp;energy hole. Perhaps Mills is off by a factor =
of 4=20
!</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The key to all of this in an operating device (and also its =
Achilles heel)=20
is that ion density will be a critical&nbsp;parameter. Is that why =
water-fuel is=20
associated with piston engines and their ability to create an =
alternating series=20
of vacuum-compression states?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Jones</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><EM>Forget your perfect offering <BR>There is a crack in everything =

<BR>That's how the light gets in</EM></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Leonard Cohen</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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The Perris Auto Speedway, which bills itself as "America's Premier Dirt Track
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Subject: Re: [Boyd] Radiative Charged Particles & Projects GreenGlow and Nasa BPP
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that is correct, Robert Neil!

Nothing 'proper', obedient, or linear, about nature!!
Yet you say that you did not read the answer,
or 'do not have time' to read the answer!

You ask what is a charged particle, but do not
view the simple, fifteen page proof; proof
of metric relativity, which shows you what
a charged particle is:

   http://freespeech.org/rapture/proof

Shows simply how the helix EM standing wave creates
a net negative appearance on the outside of the
'Lissajoid' -- and a positive condition on the
inside!

So why ask again, if you will not view the answer?

People ask why NASA BPP never went anywhere ... when
they all knew from the beginning why it would never go
anywhere!  [When ZPE and Torsion field people claim
that the aether is ten-to-the-ninetieth-power more
'energetic' than EVERYONE knows!!  Every astronomer,
every physicist, and every astrophysicist!!!]

Let's not be reticent about growing out of ourselves!

Imagine if Project GREENGLOW focused on the ACTUAL
aether!!  The ACTUAL aenertial EM vortex plenum field of
the cosmos!!!  The EM continuum which is ten times as
widespread as mass/energy -- not ten-to-the-90th-power!!!

We are ALL (green-) growing today!

And on our way to Mother Sun!!



Millennium

__________________________


Robert Niel wrote"

"Wait. You just said that there was no such thing as charge.
Now you bring up charged particles? How can particles be
charged if there is no charge? This is not proper."
And what does "metric relativity" have to do with it?





...








..

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus
For a better Internet experience
http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Apr 27 11:09:24 2003
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Jones,

This is in line with my contention that the earth's atmosphere and =
hydrosphere have "ubiquitous" free electrons that are from solar and =
galactic cosmic rays, which are responsible for "Electrostatic" effects.

The Electron Affinity of the water molecule could be quite a bit higher =
than the 0.75 ev of hydrogen and ~ 1.5ev of oxygen.


http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genchem/topicreview/bp/ch7/ie_ea.html#ea
  Near sea level the atmosphere contains about 500 negatively charged =
"small ions" (O2 and H2O) per cm^3.

  This might be why the claimed sparging of air through water, activates =
it for combustion in an ICE. Or why your car runs better on a rainy day. =
 :-)

  Fred=20

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Jones Beene=20
  To: vortex=20
  Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 12:05 PM
  Subject: Thunderstorm in an teapot


  Some thoughts based upon applying "Kelvin's Thunderstorm" phenomenon =
(i.e. Lord Kelvin's water-drop electrostatic generator from Bill B's =
site) to a water-fueled internal combustion engine, or ICE. =20

  As stated on the site, a very simple high-voltage generator can be =
built just from a can of dripping water using no moving parts. Several =
thousand volts can magically appear from induced charge imbalance and =
it's not too hard to create a large imbalance - just an electrostatic =
field (not really static, but low current)

  If we applied a variation of the technique to a "capacitor-like" =
container containing an ultrasonic water mister, one would expected that =
a "charged cold fog" would emerge. What would be some of the properties =
of this medium, and is it a true cold plasma ?

  Last year, I posted some speculation about the *Hydrated Electron,* =
which could be a possible "back door" to catalyzed water-splitting. Here =
is a reworded version of that idea that attempts to encompass a type of =
"combustion" where the fuel appears to be only water.... But things are =
seldom as simple as they may seem at times...

  In 1963, a new kind of *ion* or virtual ion - the hydrated electron - =
was discovered by Argonne chemist Edwin Hort. The hydrated electron may =
be thought of as resulting from the temporary interaction of a negative =
electron with the positive end of a polar water molecule,  but with less =
energy than would be required to form the normal water ions.=20

  The lowered energy of ionization is the key factor to keep in mind. =
The theoretical "effective temperature" or ionized water is over 100,000 =
degrees. If virtual ionization is accomplished at far less energy input, =
then converting the ion from "virtual" to "real" is the major impediment =
for coalescing "free energy," but that may happen in a complex fashion.

  This kind of temporary ionization is somewhat analogous to the =
formation of hydronium ions by interaction of a positive proton (H+) =
with the negative end of a water molecule. Hydrated electrons may =
interact with H30+ or hydronium ions or with paired water molecules. =
These reactions produce another very important short-lived reactive =
species, atomic hydrogen. Plus, other ions on occasion that may =
themselves be hydrino catalysts.

  Hort's discovery  was considered a major breakthrough in 1963 but even =
today the dynamics of this fleeting species are not very well =
appreciated. Hort was doing research on pulsed radiation of water. =
Unexpectedly, his spectrograph indicated a blue absorption band ! and =
perhaps equally unexpectedly thirty years later, a new door to "free =
energy" is beginning to be cracked open. It is likely that this virtual =
ion, the hydrated-electron is a contributing source for hydrino =
formation as well.
  =20
  Excess electrons, when they can be reluctantly coaxed into liquids, =
play a central role in photochemistry and photoelectrochemistry - and =
the hydrated electron ((e-)aq ) is a ubiquitous transient species in =
irradiated aqueous systems. It has a very short lifetime and that is =
probably why it went undetected for so many years in electrochemistry =
prior to '63 and why even today some electrochemists are not fully =
cognizant of its potential impact.

  Dainton, in 1966, proposed a possible way to generate a hydrated =
electron by photoionization. He concluded that the radiation should lie =
in the vacuum UV region, since he expected that something near the =
ionization potential of the water molecule (12.56 eV) should be =
determinative, but later experiments showed an energy balance that is =
surprisingly more favorable.

  Sokolow and Stein found that hydrated electrons were formed upon =
irradiation of water at 6.8 eV (184.9 nm) by a mercury lamp. It was =
already known that mercury lamp radiation generates surprising amounts =
of hydrogen. The detected (e-)aq yield is approximately 10% of that for =
hydrogen atom in these experiments, and that is surprising considering =
how short-lived the ion is, and how this transience affects detection - =
plus it is not clear to what extent the hydrated electron might itself =
catalyze the water splitting and thereafter disappear in the process. =
Other experiments have found these electrons at even far lower radiation =
energies.

  In 1998 Kazunari Domen at Tokyo Institute of Technology reported that =
a powdered cuprous oxide catalyst could split water at room temperature. =
This reaction can take place at high temps and when driven by light, but =
now he reports that the reaction continues in the dark for hundreds of =
hours. The quicker the container is stirred, the more hydrogen and =
oxygen are produced . Domen believes that the mechanical energy is =
converted to chemical energy without first being converted to thermal =
energy. But it is more likely that something else may be occurring, such =
as friction between the catalyst and the glass container causing a =
triboelectric build-up of charge resulting in numerous hydrated =
electrons that catalyze the reaction.

  Ultimately, of course, if some kind of positive OU energy balance is =
ever discovered in water-splitting or water-fuel, the "excess" energy =
will still have to be derived from somewhere, and that "somewhere" is =
likely to be intimately associated with the hydrogen atom, even if =
"beta-aether" and the zero point field are also involved. =20

  We know that the overall prospect of capturing the annihilation energy =
of "virtual pairs" is hopeless because their lifetime in our 3-space is =
far too short to be a viable source of free energy, ZPE theories =
notwithstanding. And even for the much longer lived electron-positron =
pair, the prospect of capturing positrons from the vacuum seems =
intractable.=20

  But Heisenberg's door may be cracked open just far enough to admit, =
not the positron itself but its "wake". i.e. its 6.8 eV binding energy =
with its virtual electron. This binding energy is but a tiny fraction of =
the positron or electron  mass/energy of ~ .5 MeV, or a GeV if they were =
to actually annihilate in our 3-space, but still it isn't too shabby, =
more than what one gets from hydrogen combustion. The proven Lamb shift =
could be indicative of the ongoing reality of this phenomenon.

  If a 6.8 eV binding energy photon turns out to be the most "natural" =
gateway to free energy coherence, it is a consequence of the positrons =
and electron having just enough time to form a fleeting virtual atom, =
positronium (Ps) which is anisotropically disrupted by proximity to =
something locally before fading into someone else's 3-space, leaving a =
"hole" so to speak, a 6.8 eV hole, which not coincidentally is an exact  =
multiple of Mills' 27.2 energy hole. Perhaps Mills is off by a factor of =
4 !

  The key to all of this in an operating device (and also its Achilles =
heel) is that ion density will be a critical parameter. Is that why =
water-fuel is associated with piston engines and their ability to create =
an alternating series of vacuum-compression states?

  Jones


  Forget your perfect offering=20
  There is a crack in everything=20
  That's how the light gets in

  Leonard Cohen





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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Jones,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>This is in line with my contention that the earth's =
atmosphere=20
and hydrosphere have "ubiquitous" free electrons that are from solar and =

galactic cosmic rays, which are responsible for "Electrostatic"=20
effects.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>The Electron Affinity of the water molecule could be =
quite a=20
bit higher than the 0.75 ev of hydrogen and ~ 1.5ev of =
oxygen.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genchem/topicreview/bp/ch7/ie_ea.ht=
ml#ea">http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genchem/topicreview/bp/ch7/ie_ea.htm=
l#ea</A></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT size=3D2>Near sea level the =
atmosphere=20
  contains about 500 negatively charged "small ions" (O2 and H2O) per=20
  cm^3.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">This might be why the claimed sparging =
of air=20
  through water, activates it for combustion in an ICE. Or why your car =
runs=20
  better on a rainy day.&nbsp; :-)</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">Fred </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:jonesb9 pacbell.net" =
title=3Djonesb9 pacbell.net>Jones Beene</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:vortex-l eskimo.com"=20
  title=3Dvortex-l eskimo.com>vortex</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, April 27, 2003 =
12:05=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Thunderstorm in an =
teapot</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV>Some thoughts based upon applying "Kelvin's Thunderstorm" =
phenomenon=20
  (i.e. Lord Kelvin's water-drop electrostatic generator from&nbsp;Bill =
B's=20
  site) to a water-fueled internal combustion engine, or ICE.&nbsp; =
</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>As stated on the site, a very simple high-voltage generator can =
be built=20
  just from a can of dripping water using no moving parts. Several =
thousand=20
  volts can magically appear&nbsp;from induced charge imbalance and it's =
not too=20
  hard to create a large imbalance - just an electrostatic field (not =
really=20
  static, but low current)</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>If we applied a variation of the technique to a "capacitor-like"=20
  container containing an ultrasonic water mister, one would expected =
that a=20
  "charged cold fog" would emerge. What would be some of&nbsp;the =
properties of=20
  this medium, and is it a true cold plasma ?</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Last year, I posted some speculation about the *Hydrated =
Electron,* which=20
  could be a possible&nbsp;"back door" to catalyzed water-splitting. =
Here is a=20
  reworded version of that idea that attempts to encompass a type of=20
  "combustion" where the fuel appears to be only water.... =
But&nbsp;things are=20
  seldom&nbsp;as simple as&nbsp;they may&nbsp;seem at times...</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>In 1963, a new kind of&nbsp;*ion* or virtual ion - the hydrated =
electron=20
  - was discovered by Argonne chemist Edwin Hort. The hydrated electron =
may be=20
  thought of as resulting from the temporary interaction of a negative =
electron=20
  with the positive end of a polar water molecule,&nbsp; but with less =
energy=20
  than would be required to form the normal water ions. </DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>The lowered energy of ionization is&nbsp;the key factor to keep =
in mind.=20
  The theoretical "effective temperature" or ionized water is over =
100,000=20
  degrees. If&nbsp;virtual ionization&nbsp;is accomplished at far less =
energy=20
  input, then converting&nbsp;the ion&nbsp;from "virtual" to "real" is =
the major=20
  impediment for coalescing "free energy," but that may happen in a =
complex=20
  fashion.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>This&nbsp;kind of temporary ionization is&nbsp;somewhat analogous =
to the=20
  formation of hydronium ions by interaction of a positive proton (H+) =
with the=20
  negative end of a water molecule. Hydrated electrons may interact with =
H30+ or=20
  hydronium ions or with paired water molecules. These reactions produce =
another=20
  very important&nbsp;short-lived reactive species, atomic hydrogen. =
Plus, other=20
  ions on occasion&nbsp;that may themselves be hydrino catalysts.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Hort's discovery &nbsp;was considered a major breakthrough in =
1963 but=20
  even today&nbsp;the dynamics of this fleeting species&nbsp;are not =
very well=20
  appreciated. Hort was doing research on pulsed radiation of water.=20
  Unexpectedly, his spectrograph indicated a blue absorption band ! and =
perhaps=20
  equally unexpectedly thirty years later, a new door to "free energy" =
is=20
  beginning to be cracked open. It is likely that this virtual ion, the=20
  hydrated-electron is a contributing source for hydrino formation as=20
well.</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial>Excess electrons, when they can =
be=20
  reluctantly coaxed into liquids, play a central role in photochemistry =
and=20
  photoelectrochemistry - and the hydrated electron ((e-)aq ) is a =
ubiquitous=20
  transient species in irradiated aqueous systems. It has a very short =
lifetime=20
  and that is probably why it went undetected for so many years in=20
  electrochemistry prior to '63 and why even today some electrochemists =
are not=20
  fully cognizant of its potential impact.</DIV></FONT>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Dainton, in 1966, proposed a possible way to generate a hydrated =
electron=20
  by photoionization. He concluded that the radiation should lie in the =
vacuum=20
  UV region, since he expected that something near the ionization =
potential of=20
  the water molecule (12.56 eV) should be determinative, but later =
experiments=20
  showed an energy balance that is surprisingly more favorable.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Sokolow and Stein found that hydrated electrons were formed upon=20
  irradiation of water at 6.8 eV (184.9 nm) by a mercury lamp. It was =
already=20
  known that mercury lamp radiation generates surprising amounts=20
  of&nbsp;hydrogen. The detected (e-)aq yield is approximately 10% of =
that for=20
  hydrogen atom in these experiments, and that is surprising considering =
how=20
  short-lived the ion is, and how this transience affects detection - =
plus it is=20
  not clear to what extent the hydrated electron might itself catalyze =
the water=20
  splitting and thereafter disappear in the process. Other experiments =
have=20
  found these electrons at even far lower radiation energies.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>In 1998&nbsp;Kazunari Domen at Tokyo Institute of Technology =
reported=20
  that a powdered cuprous oxide catalyst could split water at room =
temperature.=20
  This reaction can take place at high temps and when driven by light, =
but now=20
  he reports that the reaction continues in the dark for hundreds of =
hours. The=20
  quicker the container is stirred, the more hydrogen and oxygen are =
produced .=20
  Domen believes that the mechanical energy is converted to chemical =
energy=20
  without first being converted to thermal energy. But it is more likely =
that=20
  something else may be&nbsp;occurring, such as friction between the =
catalyst=20
  and the glass container causing a triboelectric build-up of charge =
resulting=20
  in numerous hydrated electrons that catalyze the reaction.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Ultimately, of course, if some kind of positive OU energy balance =
is ever=20
  discovered in water-splitting or water-fuel, the "excess" energy will =
still=20
  have to be derived from somewhere, and that "somewhere" is likely to =
be=20
  intimately associated with the hydrogen atom, even if "beta-aether" =
and the=20
  zero point field&nbsp;are also&nbsp;involved.&nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>We know that the overall prospect of capturing the annihilation =
energy of=20
  "virtual pairs" is hopeless because their lifetime in our =
3-space&nbsp;is far=20
  too short to be a viable source of free energy, ZPE theories=20
  notwithstanding.&nbsp;And even for the much longer lived =
electron-positron=20
  pair, the prospect of capturing positrons from the vacuum seems =
intractable.=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>But Heisenberg's door may be cracked open just far enough to =
admit, not=20
  the positron itself but&nbsp;its "wake". i.e. its 6.8 eV binding =
energy with=20
  its virtual electron. This binding energy is but a tiny fraction of =
the=20
  positron or electron&nbsp; mass/energy of ~ .5 MeV, or a GeV if they =
were to=20
  actually annihilate in our 3-space, but still it isn't too shabby, =
more than=20
  what one gets from hydrogen combustion. The proven Lamb shift could be =

  indicative of the ongoing reality of this phenomenon.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>If&nbsp;a 6.8&nbsp;eV binding energy photon turns out to be the=20
  most&nbsp;"natural" gateway to free energy coherence, it is a =
consequence of=20
  the positrons and electron having just enough time to form a fleeting =
virtual=20
  atom, positronium (Ps) which is anisotropically disrupted by proximity =
to=20
  something locally before fading into someone else's =
3-space,&nbsp;leaving a=20
  "hole" so to speak, a 6.8 eV hole, which&nbsp;not coincidentally is an =
exact=20
  &nbsp;multiple of Mills'&nbsp;27.2&nbsp;energy hole. Perhaps Mills is =
off by a=20
  factor of 4 !</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>The key to all of this in an operating device (and also its =
Achilles=20
  heel) is that ion density will be a critical&nbsp;parameter. Is that =
why=20
  water-fuel is associated with piston engines and their ability to =
create an=20
  alternating series of vacuum-compression states?</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Jones</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><EM>Forget your perfect offering <BR>There is a crack in =
everything=20
  <BR>That's how the light gets in</EM></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Leonard Cohen</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: "Frederick Sparber"  This is in line with my contention that the earth's atmosphere and hydrosphere have "ubiquitous" free electrons that are from solar and galactic cosmic rays, which are responsible for "Electrostatic" effects....

http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genchem/topicreview/bp/ch7/ie_ea.html#ea
Near sea level the atmosphere contains about 500 negatively charged "small ions" (O2 and H2O) per cm^3.....

Fred,

That also sounds a little like "light lepton" pehnomena? Do you see the "small ions" as fractionaly charged?

BTW, if presume that Kelvin's thunderstorm works the same with either polarity -but  is it a stonger effect if the water droplets given a negative, rather than a positive charge?

JOnes

 

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Subject: OFF TOPIC: A PERSPECTIVE ON GAMBLING IN ALASKA
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I sent this to the Anchorage Daily news.  Have not heard back as to whether
it may be published.  I derived the numbers by writing a random walk
probability calculation program with special attention given to
accumulative error prevention.

A PERSPECTIVE ON GAMBLING IN ALASKA

It is distressing and appalling that serious consideration is now being
given to a state lottery and to permitting gambling machines in Alaska.
Many people oppose such moves based on moral principles, based on fear of
attracting organized crime, or based on a history of negative experiences
with gambling in other localities.  Though these concerns may be valid, the
purpose here is to give consideration to a completely different perspective
on this issue.  That perspective is the issue of the potential deception
associated with gambling, a deception possibly so vile and yet so subtle,
veiled and unchallenged as to be comparable to cigarette advertising in
some prior decades.

The potential deception involved consists of advertising that implies, that
gives the gambler the impression, that he has any reasonable chance of not
losing all his money if he continues gambling, if he never stops gambling
FOREVER at some early point.  By "reasonable" here I mean better than about
one chance in a billion, but you can substitute much smaller chances
without much change in results.  That's right.  A gambler who gambles
indefinitely will lose money with a quantity and a certainty that increases
astoundingly with time.  Many gamblers think it is just their bad luck that
they are continual losers.  They think if they could just get another stake
then they could redeem themselves, that their "bad luck" is overdue to
change.  They don't have a clue how completely false this outlook is, or
that losing all your money is normal luck, the expected.  The ultimate
outcome over time remains certain to an extreme degree, regardless of any
strategy that may be learned or employed, provided the house retains even a
small advantage.  You just don't see advertising for gambling
establishments that gives people even a clue as to exactly how fast they
can expect to lose all their money.  A small advantage applied to repeated
betting adds up over time to an amazingly large advantage for the house, to
very large probabilities of the gambler losing all the money he starts
gambling with, his "purse."

Careful analysis shows that the probability for going broke behaves in a
cruelly deceptive way over even brief time frames.  The probability of
being alive, still betting, stays flat for a while and then falls off a
cliff - so fast in fact that in a startlingly short time the odds for
having any money left at all are less than the odds of winning a major
lottery.

Video poker games often operate at a margin or "take" of 10 percent.  Many
people think that this means they can expect to lose 10 percent of the
money they start with, their "purse", when they go out to gamble.  This is
completely false.  The expected loss is 10 percent of the total amount bet,
which increases with every hour of betting, often at a rate of 100 bets per
hour or more. At 100 bets per hour you can expect to lose a net of 10 bets
per hour.  At $5 a bet you would then expect to lose about $50 per hour.
The house take is typically higher for machines that take small bets
quickly, like slot machines, and less for larger bet machines or games.

In a simple win/lose game, given a house margin of 10 percent, i.e. a house
excess probability of winning of 0.1, you expect the house to win (in
excess of fair odds) 1 in 10 bets on average, so the house should be
expected to take away a 100 bet purse in about 1000 bets.  You should
expect to be able to place about 1000 bets before going broke, loosing all
your 100 bet purse.  However, most people don't realize that even this is
an overestimate of the time you have to gamble, because it only applies to
someone with a larger purse.  If you ACTUALLY have a finite purse of 100
bets, then there is only a 43.701 percent chance of making it to 1000 bets
before going broke.  This is because when you hit bottom you have to quit,
while a guy with a larger purse has a finite though small chance for a
comeback if he crosses the (100 bet loss) line.  In any event, with a large
purse or small, the odds of loosing all you have grow astronomical
amazingly fast with time as you continue betting.

When the house take is only 5 percent, with a purse of 100 bets, you would
expect to have a 50/50 chance of making it to bet 2000, instead of only the
41.42 percent chance you do have.  More significant is the effect of
increasing the bet size, i.e. decreasing the purse size, on surviving a
given number of bets.  With a 10 bet purse, at a 5 percent house take, you
only have about 50.6 percent chance of making it to 100 bets, and only a
28.46 percent chance of making it to bet 200, and about 3.16 chances in
1000 of making it to 2000 bets.  With a 10 bet purse, at a 10 percent house
take, you only have about 32.74 percent chance of making it to 100 bets,
only a 11.29 percent chance of making it to bet 200, about 8.922 chances in
1,000,000 of making it to 2000 bets, and only about 647 chances in a
BILLION of making it to 3300 bets.  This information is much more
significant if converted to hours.  In a typical game there might be 100
bets an hour, so the number of bets above easily translate to approximate
gambling hours by knocking off the last two digits.

It's pretty easy to see why gamblers go broke with great certainty if they
keep gambling.  Also interesting is the way the probabilities tend to
"hook" the gambler.  If you have a 100 bet purse, then at 99 bets you have
a 100 percent probability of still being alive.  At a 5 percent house take,
this number diminishes very slowly at first, to 98 percent at bet 500, 84
percent at bet 700, 57 percent at bet 900.  But then it falls off a cliff,
reaching 1.22 percent at bet 1900, 1.8 in 1000 at bet 2300, 0.6 in
1,000,000 at 4000, and 2.246 chances in a BILLION of being alive at bet
5000, i.e. after 50 hours of play.  It is easy to see, at a 100 bets/hour,
why the gambler with a 100 bet purse of $500, bet at the typical minimum
house bet of $5, can be fleeced in a typical vacation of 3 days or less.
It is also somewhat deceiving that, with a 100 bet purse, even at only a 5
percent take,  there is a 98 percent confidence of being alive at bet 500
and more than 98 percent confidence of being out of the game by bet 1800.
A tricky effect, even with a comfortable 100 bet purse.  At 5 hours nearly
everyone is still plugging away with big hopes, but after 18 hours there is
about no chance of making it that far.  The fleecing by video poker is
similar, but often works much faster due to the typically higher house
take.

It may be quite a job (miracle?) to make all this into a simple pamphlet
that explains in a clear way to the average person what inevitably happens
when one continues to gamble against even the slightest of house odds, and
just how amazingly inevitable it is that ALL will be lost.  However, the
state should have an obligation to properly inform its citizens in some
similar manner if it elects to take revenue from gaming machines or
casinos.  This subject may be suitable for a book, but I think the crucial
information must be made available and understandable to the gambling
public in some very simple fashion.  Perhaps a video or advertising of some
kind would be helpful.  It is going to take a real marketing "grabber" to
get enough gambler interest in the subject to make it possible to
communicate the subtleties.  Though the details are subtle, the outcome and
the degree of certainty is not subtle for the gambler who will not
permanently quit. The expected effects on him, and thus the community, are
dire.

One of the fundamental errors in thinking that gamblers make is to think of
every bet as a "new day", a chance to start over, to change luck, when in
fact this is not true at all.  Oddly, one of the first things taught in
probability theory is the nature of independent vs dependent events.  Most
gamblers think, and are taught to think, of each event, each roll of the
dice, as an independent event.  This is true only in an academic sense when
applied to human gambling, that a specific roll of the dice is an
"independent" event.   The successive rolls of the dice are not independent
if the gambler has a finite purse.  They are all made dependent by the
limits of what the gambler has available to bet.  This limitation changes
the nature of the situation into a random walk with boundaries, and when
there are such boundaries one will eventually always fall off an edge.  If
the house has any advantage at all, it can be expected to take the
gambler's purse given enough time.  At typical house percentages the amount
of time it takes the house to completely fleece a gambler is amazingly
short, and the odds for being fully fleeced grow rapidly and grow
arbitrarily large with gambling time.  Advertising that implies otherwise
is misleading.  Perhaps this insight offers a new means to fight the
apparent injustice, through the same means the cigarette industry was
attacked ... in the courts.  The gambling industry clearly knows the score,
so is its advertising fair?  Is the public properly informed?

Perhaps in Alaska the issue of revenue generation by gambling will
politically boil down to a choice of the lessor of two evils.  Given a
choice between a lottery and gambling machines, the lottery is by far the
most fair and least harmful to the public.  The consistent long term
gambler is more likely to win the lottery than to avoid losing all or the
majority of what he bets long term.  A lottery, due to the long time
between bets, and the fully advertised odds, lacks the deceptive quality
that is inherent in gambling machines and casino games.  The lottery would
be even less harmful to Alaskans for the benefit provided if designed to
attract out of state money.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


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Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 12:08:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Harvey Norris <harvich yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Thunderstorm in an teapot
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>   Excess electrons, when they can be reluctantly
> coaxed into liquids, play a central role in
> photochemistry and photoelectrochemistry - and the
> hydrated electron ((e-)aq ) is a ubiquitous
> transient species in irradiated aqueous systems. It
> has a very short lifetime and that is probably why
> it went undetected for so many years in
> electrochemistry prior to '63 and why even today
> some electrochemists are not fully cognizant of its
> potential impact.
Along with the claims of structured water obtained by
passing water through a funnel, with the cone opening
containing a magnetic field at right angles to the
water flow, I did an experiment last year to "see"
whether water could actually hold a charge. Here are
some "yahoo" jpegs showing this fact. (Yahoo jpegs may
not be accessible to non yahoo members) I used a 100
gallon holding tank used for garden irrigation, and
several 4 by 6 inch SrFe  wafers for the magnetic
field.
DC Voltage Measurement of Water Vortex 
http://f3.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oBqsPuLGSSJ5Ys_W1A9VnhS-PYE4Qi6K9MWEWkabx3dLcukyNXxcHSOK-f1l_-noiWMGgz755ygsyeYp/WAT/Dsc00253.jpg
(I am doubtful whether these jpegs will go through, as
I have not seen these long URL's before)
A voltage of .64 volts is created betweeen the top of
the vortex and the metal bottom release valve.
DC Voltage Measurment Of .58 volts on Filled Tank 
http://f2.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oBqsPqyJGtt5Ys_WX2SSDwZlASH9WmADlu-mLZYJ414tA-697P8EEvy5Oc0xJIHe3LkVaOFqy1HSnv5o/WAT/Dsc00254.jpg
I rechecked this voltage over many days,, and it did
not seem to be lost. Several weeks later it had
decreased to nothing. A much smaller voltage was
present in a different experiment using a ~ 20 gallon
tank and siphon hose through neodymium magnets to
obtain supplies of magnetized drinking water.
Cone and Magnets over Holding Tank 
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oBqsPiETh5d5Ys_W0l6qPBYPs883kySpfcZbj5TLYzU5GI4dlIIo9jZ0tI1wnJPXj7PqyeMBHqf4GHsD/WAT/Dsc00256.jpg
better shows the actual funnel set up. A sort of
centrifugal force is normally present on this funneled
water, as when it leaves the cone opening it spreads
out into a sort of inverse cone or bell shape.

I am questionable about these yahoo jpegs, so if they
are not accessible they can be found in the folder;
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/files/WAT/

HDN


=====
Tesla Research Group; Pioneering the Applications of Interphasal Resonances http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com

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Subject: Re: Thunderstorm in an teapot
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From: "Harvey Norris" 

> A voltage of .64 volts is created betweeen the top of
> the vortex and the metal bottom release valve.

> I rechecked this voltage over many days,, and it did
> not seem to be lost. Several weeks later it had
> decreased to nothing. 

Harvey,

Where did the original water come from?  Was it rainwater?

For a number of reasons, it appears that certain "kinds" of water can retain natural charge (high population of hydrated electrons) for far longer....well-water and rainwater appear good, tap water not good, distilled water terrible...

Jones

If you have this experiment still going, there are a number of variations to it that could be quite revealing. Let me know by private email...



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Subject: Re: Thunderstorm in an teapot
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Jones Beene" <jonesb9 pacbell.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: Thunderstorm in an teapot

Jones Beene wrote:


> From: "Frederick Sparber"  This is in line with my contention that the earth's
atmosphere and hydrosphere have "ubiquitous" free electrons that are from solar and
galactic cosmic rays, which are responsible for "Electrostatic" effects....
>
> http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genchem/topicreview/bp/ch7/ie_ea.html#ea
> Near sea level the atmosphere contains about 500 negatively charged "small ions" (O2
and H2O) per cm^3.....
>
> Fred,
>
> That also sounds a little like "light lepton" phenomena? >Do you see the "small
ions" as fractionally charged?

No, but, to have Electron Affinity the host atom or molecule Must exhibit a slight
Positive Charge over and above the Positive charge responsible for electron
bonding.Conversely those atoms or molecules that have a "Negative" Electron Affinity,
(Helium or N2) must have a slight excess negative charge, hence can attract positive
charge (such as the positive end of a highly polar molecule such as water.

Thus N2 dissolved in water can form an N2 "Hydrate".

OTOH, CO2 when dissolved in water should have both the Carbon and Oxygen exercising
substantial Electron Affinity.


>
> BTW, if presume that Kelvin's thunderstorm works the same with either polarity -but
is it a stronger effect if the water droplets given a negative, rather than a positive
charge?

As I see it, the positive charge one on water droplet is only the shortage of Affinity
Electrons wrt the other droplet.

Fred
>
> Jones
>
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Apr 27 14:33:54 2003
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Horace Heffner wrote:

>Given a
>choice between a lottery and gambling machines, the lottery is by far the
>most fair and least harmful to the public. 
>

Here is Georgia, we call the lottery a "voluntary tax".  Unfortunately, 
those who play (pay), can least afford it.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Apr 27 16:00:46 2003
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Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 12:58:34 -1000
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From: Rick Monteverde <rick highsurf.com>
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: A PERSPECTIVE ON GAMBLING IN ALASKA
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Went to the state fair there in Palmer one year to work at a booth, and lost all my extra nacho money on that stupid rat-hole wheel-of-fortune game.  Just say NO to gambling in Alaska!  ;)

- RM

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Subject: RE: OFF TOPIC: A PERSPECTIVE ON GAMBLING IN ALASKA
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Hi.

Well, how about that, I find myself in complete
agreement with Terry (smile).

The lottery is a tax on the poor. It's worse than
gambling, in that the people who play can least
afford it and the odds of winning are far lower
than the most crooked gambling house.

The major argument against the casino style
gambling is simply that you end up with
organized crime running the business. As most
native americans can sadly tell you.

That either thing is designed to take money
from people is pretty much given, if someone
doesn't realize this it's not because they
haven't been educated but rather that greed
is a powerful instinct and can be capitalized
upon. No advertising campaign will "wise
up the marks" 'cause they don't want to
be wised up to begin with.

If the state carefully controls the gambling
casinos, and isn't itself corrupt (right...)
then go with the casinos. It will result
in a progressive tax. The lottery is the
worst sort of regressive tax. Plus, gamblers
will come from out of state to gamble whereas
no-one will go to play the lottery, so again
you lose out.

Neither approach is a very effective way
to raise revenue for the state, but
I guess the notion of raising taxes to
meet expenses is so anathema to the
American people that they're willing to
endure serious inflation ( itself a regressive
tax ). Hey, there's a reason Freud received
so much static for his concept of the
thanatos, or death wish.

K.


-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Blanton [mailto:blantont rtpatlanta.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 5:30 PM
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: A PERSPECTIVE ON GAMBLING IN ALASKA




Horace Heffner wrote:

>Given a
>choice between a lottery and gambling machines, the lottery is by far the
>most fair and least harmful to the public. 
>

Here is Georgia, we call the lottery a "voluntary tax".  Unfortunately, 
those who play (pay), can least afford it.


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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: A PERSPECTIVE ON GAMBLING IN ALASKA
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At 12:58 PM 4/27/3, Rick Monteverde wrote:
>Went to the state fair there in Palmer one year to work at a booth, and
>lost all my extra nacho money on that stupid rat-hole wheel-of-fortune
>game.  Just say NO to gambling in Alaska!  ;)
>
>- RM


You might be interested to know that I live right accross the Glenn Highway
from the State Fairgounds and walk to the fair.

I have actually bet on that mouse game myself.  I bet one buck a year.  The
game is for a charity.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


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From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
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Subject: RE: OFF TOPIC: A PERSPECTIVE ON GAMBLING IN ALASKA
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Horace writes:
>You, like most, are apparently clueless about the odds of winning at long
>term gambling.  No only are you clueless about the odds of winning, but you
>are also clueless about the odds of losing everything you start with - your
>purse.

Well your claim seems a little extreme. Lets take your hypothetical
situation of a 100 bet purse. If I buy 100 lottery tickets, you
say I have less chance of making 101 tickets worth of money
than 100 bet purse at lets say blackjack???

Or are you saying that, in the long run, if I keep betting
the money day after day, maximizing my exposure in the, shall
we say, marketplace? that I'll end up bust...

>You apparently have no exposure to people who take their food money and
>rent money and go gamble it away a casinos, expecting that someday all
>their bad luck will somehow be balanced by good luck.

Not really. Most of the gamblers I have known have been
rich and idle. The locals in my neighborhood play the
lottery, with their pension funds or whatever, and they're
often poor. Which is why I see the lottery as a regressive tax and the
casinos as a progressive tax.

I am aware of gambling as a habit forming activity, and
such people inevitably end up broke as you say. Of course
such people play the lottery as well.

It's better not to take a moral position on this, and
simply view it as a tax on the citizenry. Rather than present
a mathematical argument for your position, perhaps you
might better look at the demographics of who gambles vs
who buys lottery tickets.

By the way, why does the state feel it needs the extra money
for this new tax?

K.

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--- Jones Beene <jonesb9 pacbell.net> wrote:
> From: "Harvey Norris" 
> 
> > A voltage of .64 volts is created betweeen the top
> of
> > the vortex and the metal bottom release valve.
> 
> > I rechecked this voltage over many days,, and it
> did
> > not seem to be lost. Several weeks later it had
> > decreased to nothing. 
> 
> Harvey,
> 
> Where did the original water come from?  Was it
> rainwater?
City Tap water, at that time of year I was not using
the 100 gallon tank for irrigation much because it was
raining well at that point. This is why I retested the
voltage in the tank numerous times. If you have a pair
of neodymium magnets you can try a miniature version
of same process. Get a plastic bin from Wallmart, fill
it with ordinary water, (I happened to use energized
water from Ellis process, which is an ozonated
variety) Get a siphon hose and plastic pieces to keep
the NIB magnets from crushing the siphone hose.  Place
the magnets across the water flow from the siphon
hose. Siphon into another container and place a
digital volt meter set on DC from the top of each
water surface. I recorded a small DC voltage also in
that case. I routinely magnetize the Ellis process
water in this way, in the next several days when I
make another gallon of so, I will try this again and
report back. I seem to recall that in this miniature
case, perhaps only .05 DC volts would register.
Anyways this is something you might be able to try for
yourself, if you have strong magnets like that.
> For a number of reasons, it appears that certain
> "kinds" of water can retain natural charge (high
> population of hydrated electrons) for far
> longer....well-water and rainwater appear good, tap
> water not good, distilled water terrible...
It is said that merely bubbling ozone through water
does not produce an ozonated water that will last
long, only a half life of some 45 minutes. But the
Ellis process for ozonation is somewhat different, he
produces steam that condenses in its pathway through
an enclosed ozone bulb. He claims that this changes
the bonding angle of the H2O molecule. Other folks
beleieving in structured water, through this
magnetized regimen of passing flowing water through a
magnetic field, make the same claims, that the bonding
angle is changed to a wider angle. The ozone bulb
produces UV light, and it seems possible that this
light spectrum  through condensing steam might
accomplish such an "energized" water molecule. Ellis
site is at 
http://www.johnellis.com/
But Ellis does not reveal the intricasies of his
process at that site, only giving testimonials from
others using the water. My brother happened to
purchase one of his very expensive machines, and like
descriptions at his Ellis site,he has used it in
aquarium water that stays amazingly clean. I know it
sounds like a lot of "hocus pocus", but hey if it
works, what can you say to dispute it? 

A picture of the dismantled machine can be found at my
water folder;
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/files/WAT/ as
the first item
Ozone Bulb Removed From Chamber 
You might not be able to acces the pic if you are not
on Yahoo, where they appear to be changing URL names
for folder jpegs, so let me see if this goes
through... 
http://f3.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/ULWsPtaKCV44HW_qnxWulchd2gGHYFcF-dOhExKxMe6azQb1Him80jkF6cmqBcvbWGNPsk7X0rSKF-60/WAT/Dsc00248.jpg
Now let me try the old version to see if I can access
it through the mailing reading by manually inserting
the last item after the folder name...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/files/WAT/Dsc00248.jpg
 This shows the dismantled Ellis machine where the
ozone bulb gets inserted into the smaller
hemispherical part of the machine. There is a valve
that opens and closes every 30 seconds or so with the
main reservoir..., this mixes the ordinary water with
a new supply to be distilled. Hope you can access the
jpegs... Yahoo is getting really rediculous with their
ads that constantly interupt one, their inaccessible
jpeg offerings, ect... but I guess thats what one gets
with a free service. I wonder if even one out of a
thousand people bothers to read those damn pop up ads,
what a hassle to constantly be deleting them... Hope I
answered some questions here, I dont think that the
quality of water has much to do with whether it can be
magnetised effectively however.
> 
> Jones
> 
> If you have this experiment still going, there are a
> number of variations to it that could be quite
> revealing. Let me know by private email...
Some experiments using colloidal silver water might
proove to become interesting, Ive been making that on
a daily basis. Believe it or not the conductivity of
distillled water with silver electrodes appears to be
altered during a full moon!  There are a lot of
variables there however, including temperature. I had
actually poured into a separate container a freshly
opened DW bottle that tested out at 1.16 ma for coins
almost half submerged, during a full moon, since I
wanted to retest the water from the same container,
thinking the distilled was inferior. DW can contain a
lot of variance, this variety was from Wall mart.  The
next morning at dawn the same sample tested out near 
1 ma, about a 15% difference. This aspect needs to be
retested for error however, so I will observe things
near a full moon every month, to be more positive
about it then one mere instance provides. Sure as hell
sounds pretty "unscientific" to me, that a full moon
could change an actual measurement like that!
HDN
 


=====
Tesla Research Group; Pioneering the Applications of Interphasal Resonances http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Apr 27 23:05:06 2003
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: RE: OFF TOPIC: A PERSPECTIVE ON GAMBLING IN ALASKA
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At 9:33 PM 4/27/3, Keith Nagel wrote:
>Hi.
>
>Well, how about that, I find myself in complete
>agreement with Terry (smile).
>
>The lottery is a tax on the poor. It's worse than
>gambling, in that the people who play can least
>afford it and the odds of winning are far lower
>than the most crooked gambling house.


You, like most, are apparently clueless about the odds of winning at long
term gambling.  No only are you clueless about the odds of winning, but you
are also clueless about the odds of losing everything you start with - your
purse.

When playing video poker at a typical house take of 10 percent the odds for
avoiding losing all you start out with is much less than winning a lottery,
even if you gamble only for a surprisingly short time.  You are
demonstrating the ignorance about gambling that I am saying exists
commonly.  You are proving my point.  The odds of winning a lottery is
better, and the expected return per dollar bet is better than you can get
by repeated long term betting at any gambling house where the take is even
a mere 1 percent, if such a place even exists.  You just don't seem to
understand the nature of the accumulated odds against you that occurs at a
casino.  At least most everyone realizes that the odds are extreme that
they are going to lose everything they bet on a lottery.  Most people do
not realize about casino betting that if they start with a 100 bet purse
that in a mere matter of days of betting that their odds of having any
money left are far less than the odds of winning a statewide lottery.  This
all assumes a prefectly legitimately run business too, no cheating.

When an add suggest that you "come and test your luck" it makes you think
you have some reasonable chance of winning, not less chances than the guy
who buys a lottery ticket.  For the long term gambler luck ultimately has
nothing to do with the outcome, it only has to do with how long it takes
for him to lose whatever amount he starts with.

I am not for a lottery, I am only for a lottery as compared to permitting
gambling machines in the bars and hotels here.  The lottery is
understandable for most peole, the true nature of gambling is not, at least
not without a significant education.  Further, tricky advertising works
against anyone ever getting that education.

You apparently have no exposure to people who take their food money and
rent money and go gamble it away a casinos, expecting that someday all
their bad luck will somehow be balanced by good luck.  They don't realize
that they probably are already having average luck in that they lose all
their betting money in about the right amount of time, and that if they
have good luck they'll simply take a while longer to achieve the total
loss.  The odd thing is that momentary winning does occur, and the money so
obtained is ususally frivolously spent.  However, if momentary winnings are
not spent frivolously, but rather continued to be gambled away, then the
gambler doesn't even get the benefit of a frivolous time.  Most people are
smart enough to realize that money spent on a lottery will likely be lost.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Apr 27 23:25:52 2003
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Confidence intervals for large factors of sigma
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Anyone have the values (or computation means) for alpha (size of standard
distribuion tail) for large values out to 10 or 20 times sigma?  If I
recall correctly, Jed put out a request for such info a while back.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 28 01:52:24 2003
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Once, I witnessed at Las Vegas an Indian man (from India) playing roulette alone, in closed table. I watch him about half hour. (He played certainly more than one hour, I saw) Probably he have more than 100K won on the table and continue to winning steadily. Each time he distribute his bet about $1000-$3000 on various and redundant combinations, and mostly win more than he bet.

Each time, he increase his wealth give $100 of these things to clerk. This looks almost unreal.

This is certainly out of probability calculations.  From my sow experience of guessing game with playing cards, occurred only once, when I was 16 years old, I had a 100% confidence about my guess on a add against 52. Actually I was playing with myself a guessing game in a loudly birthday party. In a moment I gained a feeling that my next guess will be correct. Then I wanted somebody witness it and call a friend take on card from the deck (without showing me its face) that I had shuffled from of her. I made a guess after she take the card. My guess was correct as I expected. My confidence to my guess was so high, I didn't even looked to the card just after telling my guess, Because I "knew" it. Ironically my friend (at most 13 years old) did not impressed from that, thinking it was usual trick. Most importantly this is not of a part repeated tries.

I have no real interest on beyond of physics, but it appears such inexplicable case occurs sometime.



Horace Heffner wrote:
> 
> At 12:58 PM 4/27/3, Rick Monteverde wrote:
> >Went to the state fair there in Palmer one year to work at a booth, and
> >lost all my extra nacho money on that stupid rat-hole wheel-of-fortune
> >game.  Just say NO to gambling in Alaska!  ;)
> >
> >- RM
> 
> You might be interested to know that I live right accross the Glenn Highway
> from the State Fairgounds and walk to the fair.
> 
> I have actually bet on that mouse game myself.  I bet one buck a year.  The
> game is for a charity.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Horace Heffner

Regards,

hamdi ucar

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 28 06:15:27 2003
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: A PERSPECTIVE ON GAMBLING IN ALASKA
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At 11:51 AM 4/28/3, hamdix wrote:
>Once, I witnessed at Las Vegas an Indian man (from India) playing roulette
>alone, in closed table. I watch him about half hour. (He played certainly
>more than one hour, I saw) Probably he have more than 100K won on the
>table and continue to winning steadily. Each time he distribute his bet
>about $1000-$3000 on various and redundant combinations, and mostly win
>more than he bet.
>
>Each time, he increase his wealth give $100 of these things to clerk. This
>looks almost unreal.


The fact that there was a single player at the table is very suspicious.
This may have been a shill operation of some kind, trying to draw in the
unsuspecting.  Roulette wheels are notorious for their ability to be
rigged.  It might also have been a money laundering scheme in progress.
However, there is also a natural explanation (see below).


>
>This is certainly out of probability calculations.  From my sow experience
>of guessing game with playing cards, occurred only once, when I was 16
>years old, I had a 100% confidence about my guess on a add against 52.
>Actually I was playing with myself a guessing game in a loudly birthday
>party. In a moment I gained a feeling that my next guess will be correct.
>Then I wanted somebody witness it and call a friend take on card from the
>deck (without showing me its face) that I had shuffled from of her. I made
>a guess after she take the card. My guess was correct as I expected. My
>confidence to my guess was so high, I didn't even looked to the card just
>after telling my guess, Because I "knew" it. Ironically my friend (at most
>13 years old) did not impressed from that, thinking it was usual trick.
>Most importantly this is not of a part repeated tries.

Yes many strange things happen, but almost never with repeatability.


>
>I have no real interest on beyond of physics, but it appears such
>inexplicable case occurs sometime.


It is of mathematical interest that gambling is a random walk process.  The
state of your purse after a bet is based on the money you have before the
bet and whether you win or lose the current bet.  Random walk processes do
not tend to stay at the mean or "expected" location, but rather the average
distance to the mean is about 0.8 n^0.5 at stage n.  The "runs" to either
side of the mean tend to be fairly long.  Heavy gamblers are intensely
aware of this phenomenon as a "lucky streak".  It is most amazing to me
that a bunch of independent events tend mathematically to create these
lucky streaks which are so much a natural part of any random walk process.

However, lucky streaks do not last long when there is a house advantage,
but unlucky steaks do.  After thousands of bets the mean behavior takes
over with great inevitability.  That is because the standard deviation of
the random walk distribution is about n^0.5, so with time lucky streaks
differ from the mean behavior by lessor and lessor percentages, though the
local deviation grows in an absolute sense.  A winnning streak more and
more begins to mean a temporary "reduction in rate of loss" streak, but
does not make the gambler a winner in the absolute sense.  When there is a
house take the mean purse size drops at a constant rate, but the ratio of
sigma to n decreases, thus giving increased distance, with betting time,
between the mean purse size and the minimum purse size (gone broke point),
as measured in terms of sigmas.  This is what causes an exponential
increase in the odds of losing everything with time when gambling with a
fixed purse.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 28 06:15:46 2003
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Subject: RE: OFF TOPIC: A PERSPECTIVE ON GAMBLING IN ALASKA
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At 1:57 AM 4/28/3, Keith Nagel wrote:
>Horace writes:
>>You, like most, are apparently clueless about the odds of winning at long
>>term gambling.  No only are you clueless about the odds of winning, but you
>>are also clueless about the odds of losing everything you start with - your
>>purse.
>
>Well your claim seems a little extreme. Lets take your hypothetical
>situation of a 100 bet purse. If I buy 100 lottery tickets, you
>say I have less chance of making 101 tickets worth of money
>than 100 bet purse at lets say blackjack???


No. I said, for example, that after about 50 hours of playing at 100 bets
an hour at a mere 5 percent house take you have less than 3 chances in a
BILLION of having any of your money left.  This is less than the chance you
have of winning the typical state lottery big prize, at least in Alaska.
However, on average, you are going to lose that 100 bet purse in less than
10 hours.  Continued gambling takes money from the regular gambler with a
far greater certainty than most any of them realize.


>
>Or are you saying that, in the long run, if I keep betting
>the money day after day, maximizing my exposure in the, shall
>we say, marketplace? that I'll end up bust...


It usually doesn't take day after day.  It might take a few days.  You
might be one of the lucky ones that makes it past 50 hours without going
broke, but your odds of doing so are less than winning a big lottery.



>
>>You apparently have no exposure to people who take their food money and
>>rent money and go gamble it away a casinos, expecting that someday all
>>their bad luck will somehow be balanced by good luck.
>
>Not really. Most of the gamblers I have known have been
>rich and idle.


Casino promotions have targeted the retired in the past, who somewhat fit
that description.  However, I doubt that the retired school teachers etc.
that have been targeted actually feel rich.  I gather this has changed
somewhat recently, with Las Vegas in particular going after family
vacationers with kids etc. and selling entertainment features as much as
the "sin city" concept.


>The locals in my neighborhood play the
>lottery, with their pension funds or whatever, and they're
>often poor. Which is why I see the lottery as a regressive tax and the
>casinos as a progressive tax.
>
>I am aware of gambling as a habit forming activity, and
>such people inevitably end up broke as you say. Of course
>such people play the lottery as well.
>
>It's better not to take a moral position on this, and
>simply view it as a tax on the citizenry.


It is NOT just a tax if it deceptively takes money from the unsuspecting.
I think there may be more than just a point of morality involved.  It may
be an issue for the law.


>Rather than present
>a mathematical argument for your position, perhaps you
>might better look at the demographics of who gambles vs
>who buys lottery tickets.


As proposed in Alaska the people who play video poker will likely be in
bars and hotels.  Lottery tickets can be sold anywhere.

Lottery sales are very honest and straight up about the odds of winning or
losing.

>
>By the way, why does the state feel it needs the extra money
>for this new tax?

Oil revenues are drying up due to the closing of many areas to exploration.
Logging has effectively been killed off too. Voters have said they do not
want an income tax.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: A PERSPECTIVE ON GAMBLING IN ALASKA
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Horace Heffner wrote:

>It is distressing and appalling that serious consideration is now being
>given to a state lottery and to permitting gambling machines in Alaska.

I do not approve of these things either. However if people are going to 
play the lottery it is better to conduct it under state control, and to tax 
it. Gambling machines are reportedly addictive. The only pleasing thing 
about cassinos in the southeast is that many are run by Indian tribes. It 
is poetic justice to see Native Americans ripping off stupid white people. 
Last year one tribe distributed $6,000 per capita to members, according to 
the Atlanta Journal.


>One of the fundamental errors in thinking that gamblers make is to think 
>of every bet as a "new day", a chance to start over, to change luck, when 
>in fact this is not true at all.  Oddly, one of the first things taught in
>probability theory is the nature of independent vs dependent events.  Most 
>gamblers think, and are taught to think, of each event, each roll of the 
>dice, as an independent event.  This is true only in an academic sense 
>when applied to human gambling, that a specific roll of the dice is an 
>"independent" event.   The successive rolls of the dice are not 
>independent if the gambler has a finite purse.

I believe it is just the opposite. The classic "gambler's delusion" is that 
random events are linked and have a pattern. Say a gambler is betting heads 
or tails on the fall of a coin. He bets heads three times in a row but it 
comes up tails three times in a row. He might think, "my luck is bound to 
turn this time. It is sure to come up heads!" Actually, the chance of heads 
on the fourth throw are exactly the same as on any other: 50 - 50. The 
events are not linked, since there is no physical causality or mechanism 
that would carry influence from one event to the next. There is no "memory" 
in an ordinary coin, or a betting machine, or the ping-pong balls used in 
the Georgia lottery. It would be easy to devise a betting machine that 
*does* have a memory, but I believe that would be against the law.

Other objects do have various memory effects. The Mean Time to Failure 
(MTTF) in a machine, for example, is partly random and partly a function of 
wear and tear on parts. After an old fashioned hard disk ran for ~2 years, 
only a fool would bet against a near-term disastrous failure and data loss. 
Many fools did bet against this, and lost jobs, businesses, etc.

Heffner's point is completely correct. When the odds of an event occurring 
are even slightly below unity, making a sufficiently long series of bets on 
that event is certain to be a losing proposition.

There are some forms of gambling that are not purely based on luck, such as 
poker and betting on horses. Knowledge and skill plays a role in these 
activities, and a person can make a living doing them, or even a fortune. I 
once knew a grey-haired lady who looked like Grandma from Central Casting, 
who was a professional poker player at Las Vegas. She "played for the 
house" whatever that means.

- Jed


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<html>
<font size=3>Jeane,<br>
<br>
It was good to spend the evening with you last Friday. We should make an
effort to see each other more often. Before we know it we will be
dottering old codgers too used up to remember what to say.<br>
<br>
I thought I would pass on this commentary by Jones. This is very thought
provoking stuff. I remember from my childhood ( thank God I can still
remember back to those days) hearing my grandfather talk about being out
on the Atlantic in stormy weather and having St Elmo's fire dancing
through the rigging of his schooner. there were times he said when the
light given off from the cold plasma ( his words were ghostly
electricity) was enough to read a book by. This natural phenomena may
well relate to what Jones is referring to. Here you have the extreme
surface agitation of the ocean and high velocity winds generating high
potential electric fields. All interesting stuff. BTW, check out the
lines from Leonard Choen at the bottom of Jones' post. Anyone who is a
Choen fan must not be a half bad character&nbsp; ;-)<br>
<br>
I will keep you up to date with the Monti saga and maybe see you up your
way before too long. try to wangle a free pass to the Hydrogen
Conference. Maybe you could do an article for IE to help defray the cost
of the trip. I'm sure Gene would appreciate having it covered if he is
not going to be there him self.<br>
<br>
regards and love,<br>
<br>
-wilf<br>
=============================<br>
At 10:05 AM 27/04/03 -0700, you wrote: <br>
<font size=3><blockquote type=cite cite>Some thoughts based upon applying
&quot;Kelvin's Thunderstorm&quot; phenomenon (i.e. Lord Kelvin's
water-drop electrostatic generator from Bill B's site) to a water-fueled
internal combustion engine, or ICE.&nbsp; <br>
<br>
As stated on the site, a very simple high-voltage generator can be built
just from a can of dripping water using no moving parts. Several thousand
volts can magically appear from induced charge imbalance and it's not too
hard to create a large imbalance - just an electrostatic field (not
really static, but low current)<br>
<br>
If we applied a variation of the technique to a
&quot;capacitor-like&quot; container containing an ultrasonic water
mister, one would expected that a &quot;charged cold fog&quot; would
emerge. What would be some of the properties of this medium, and is it a
true cold plasma ?<br>
<br>
Last year, I posted some speculation about the *Hydrated Electron,* which
could be a possible &quot;back door&quot; to catalyzed water-splitting.
Here is a reworded version of that idea that attempts to encompass a type
of &quot;combustion&quot; where the fuel appears to be only water.... But
things are seldom as simple as they may seem at times...<br>
<br>
In 1963, a new kind of *ion* or virtual ion - the hydrated electron - was
discovered by Argonne chemist Edwin Hort. The hydrated electron may be
thought of as resulting from the temporary interaction of a negative
electron with the positive end of a polar water molecule,&nbsp; but with
less energy than would be required to form the normal water ions. <br>
<br>
The lowered energy of ionization is the key factor to keep in mind. The
theoretical &quot;effective temperature&quot; or ionized water is over
100,000 degrees. If virtual ionization is accomplished at far less energy
input, then converting the ion from &quot;virtual&quot; to
&quot;real&quot; is the major impediment for coalescing &quot;free
energy,&quot; but that may happen in a complex fashion.<br>
<br>
<font size=3>This kind of temporary ionization is somewhat analogous to
the formation of hydronium ions by interaction of a positive proton (H+)
with the negative end of a water molecule. Hydrated electrons may
interact with H30+ or hydronium ions or with paired water molecules.
These reactions produce another very important short-lived reactive
species, atomic hydrogen. Plus, other ions on occasion that may
themselves be hydrino catalysts.<br>
<br>
Hort's discovery&nbsp; was considered a major breakthrough in 1963 but
even today the dynamics of this fleeting species are not very well
appreciated. Hort was doing research on pulsed radiation of water.
Unexpectedly, his spectrograph indicated a blue absorption band ! and
perhaps equally unexpectedly thirty years later, a new door to &quot;free
energy&quot; is beginning to be cracked open. It is likely that this
virtual ion, the hydrated-electron is a contributing source for hydrino
formation as well.<br>
<br>
</font><font face="arial" size=3>Excess electrons, when they can be
reluctantly coaxed into liquids, play a central role in photochemistry
and photoelectrochemistry - and the hydrated electron ((e-)aq ) is a
ubiquitous transient species in irradiated aqueous systems. It has a very
short lifetime and that is probably why it went undetected for so many
years in electrochemistry prior to '63 and why even today some
electrochemists are not fully cognizant of its potential impact.<br>
</font><br>
<font size=3>Dainton, in 1966, proposed a possible way to generate a
hydrated electron by photoionization. He concluded that the radiation
should lie in the vacuum UV region, since he expected that something near
the ionization potential of the water molecule (12.56 eV) should be
determinative, but later experiments showed an energy balance that is
surprisingly more favorable.<br>
<br>
Sokolow and Stein found that hydrated electrons were formed upon
irradiation of water at 6.8 eV (184.9 nm) by a mercury lamp. It was
already known that mercury lamp radiation generates surprising amounts of
hydrogen. The detected (e-)aq yield is approximately 10% of that for
hydrogen atom in these experiments, and that is surprising considering
how short-lived the ion is, and how this transience affects detection -
plus it is not clear to what extent the hydrated electron might itself
catalyze the water splitting and thereafter disappear in the process.
Other experiments have found these electrons at even far lower radiation
energies.<br>
<br>
In 1998 Kazunari Domen at Tokyo Institute of Technology reported that a
powdered cuprous oxide catalyst could split water at room temperature.
This reaction can take place at high temps and when driven by light, but
now he reports that the reaction continues in the dark for hundreds of
hours. The quicker the container is stirred, the more hydrogen and oxygen
are produced . Domen believes that the mechanical energy is converted to
chemical energy without first being converted to thermal energy. But it
is more likely that something else may be occurring, such as friction
between the catalyst and the glass container causing a triboelectric
build-up of charge resulting in numerous hydrated electrons that catalyze
the reaction.<br>
<br>
<font size=3>Ultimately, of course, if some kind of positive OU energy
balance is ever discovered in water-splitting or water-fuel, the
&quot;excess&quot; energy will still have to be derived from somewhere,
and that &quot;somewhere&quot; is likely to be intimately associated with
the hydrogen atom, even if &quot;beta-aether&quot; and the zero point
field are also involved.&nbsp; <br>
<br>
We know that the overall prospect of capturing the annihilation energy of
&quot;virtual pairs&quot; is hopeless because their lifetime in our
3-space is far too short to be a viable source of free energy, ZPE
theories notwithstanding. And even for the much longer lived
electron-positron pair, the prospect of capturing positrons from the
vacuum seems intractable. <br>
<br>
But Heisenberg's door may be cracked open just far enough to admit, not
the positron itself but its &quot;wake&quot;. i.e. its 6.8 eV binding
energy with its virtual electron. This binding energy is but a tiny
fraction of the positron or electron&nbsp; mass/energy of ~ .5 MeV, or a
GeV if they were to actually annihilate in our 3-space, but still it
isn't too shabby, more than what one gets from hydrogen combustion. The
proven Lamb shift could be indicative of the ongoing reality of this
phenomenon.<br>
<br>
If a 6.8 eV binding energy photon turns out to be the most
&quot;natural&quot; gateway to free energy coherence, it is a consequence
of the positrons and electron having just enough time to form a fleeting
virtual atom, positronium (Ps) which is anisotropically disrupted by
proximity to something locally before fading into someone else's 3-space,
leaving a &quot;hole&quot; so to speak, a 6.8 eV hole, which not
coincidentally is an exact&nbsp; multiple of Mills' 27.2 energy hole.
Perhaps Mills is off by a factor of 4 !<br>
<br>
The key to all of this in an operating device (and also its Achilles
heel) is that ion density will be a critical parameter. Is that why
water-fuel is associated with piston engines and their ability to create
an alternating series of vacuum-compression states?<br>
<br>
Jones<br>
<br>
<br>
<font size=3><i>Forget your perfect offering <br>
There is a crack in everything <br>
That's how the light gets in</i><br>
<br>
<font size=3>Leonard Cohen<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote><br>
</font><br>
</html>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 28 11:17:25 2003
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Jed Rothwell wrote:

> There is no "memory" in an ordinary coin, or a betting machine, or the 
> ping-pong balls used in the Georgia lottery. It would be easy to 
> devise a betting machine that *does* have a memory, but I believe that 
> would be against the law. 


Ackshully, that's not entirely accurate.  One-armed bandits definately 
have a memory and are required by law in certain locales to pay out a 
minimum percentage.

Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 28 12:45:18 2003
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To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: A PERSPECTIVE ON GAMBLING IN ALASKA
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Terry Blanton wrote:

>>There is no "memory" in an ordinary coin, or a betting machine, or the 
>>ping-pong balls used in the Georgia lottery. It would be easy to devise a 
>>betting machine that *does* have a memory, but I believe that would be 
>>against the law.
>
>
>Ackshully, that's not entirely accurate.  One-armed bandits definately 
>have a memory and are required by law in certain locales to pay out a 
>minimum percentage.

Yes, they are required to pay out a minimum percent, but this does not 
require a "memory" -- mechanical or software. The older mechanical ones 
simply had an arrangement of gears that randomly selected a payoff or not, 
more often not. The amount of the payoff could be adjusted by counting out 
different numbers of coins. The software ones pick a random number and pay 
-- or not. The rule is they must have a range of payoff random choices of a 
certain range. I don't know the details, but let us say the random number 
is between 1 and 100. Suppose the rule is that random numbers from 1 to 20 
must pay off. There is no rule saying that if 1 - 20 has not appeared in 
the last 50 random tries, it must be forced, or the range must be increased 
from 1 to 30 instead. Conversely, there is no rule saying that if the last 
random number was 15 (payoff) the next one is not allowed to be 15. Such 
rules could easily be implemented, giving the machine a "memory," but as I 
said, that is against the law as far as I know.

I learned about these machines many years ago, talking to a tech guy when I 
was working on a telephone system at Las Vegas. I do not know the random 
number generating scheme. This web site indicates they use a software 
generated random number (a pseudo-random generator) that is interrupted 
when the user activates the machine:

http://www.slot-machine-games.net/modern_slot_machine.html

Pseudo-random generator can be dicey, but probably this method of using the 
interrupt time makes it completely fair. Most pseudo-random number 
generators I have seen use the same trick with the system clock. They 
"seed" the sequence with something like the last 3 digits of microseconds 
after midnight. The Pascal or C has an "Initialize" or "Seed" command which 
you should run when the program begins, or after a user input. Otherwise 
you get the same sequence every time you run. Actually, that can be 
desirable during debugging.

Given the vagaries of Windows, you hardly need a random number generator. 
Just ask the system clock for the time of day! Or have the program monitor 
how often and how long it takes to swap virtual memory. (A vagary is, "an 
extravagant or erratic notion or action. See synonyms at caprice.")

When you play a game of chance such as blackjack with a deck of cards, and 
you discard without shuffling after each round until you run out of cards, 
the deck does have a memory. High cards that have been dealt previously do 
not appear again. This is not fully random. I have heard that people who 
have a knack for math and can keep track of such things win more often. I 
believe that in most cassinos they shuffle the deck every time to stymie 
such people.

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 28 12:45:42 2003
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: A PERSPECTIVE ON GAMBLING IN ALASKA
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At 12:10 PM 4/28/3, Jed Rothwell wrote:

>I believe it is just the opposite. The classic "gambler's delusion" is that
>random events are linked and have a pattern. Say a gambler is betting heads
>or tails on the fall of a coin. He bets heads three times in a row but it
>comes up tails three times in a row. He might think, "my luck is bound to
>turn this time.


I certainly agree that this also is a delusion, but one only made by the
VERY uneducated.  However, my point is that even gamblers fairly well
educated in probability theory do not understand random walk theory or even
that the process they are involved in is a random walk process, while the
casinos do have a good perspective on their business that is not fully
shared with the customers.  There are subtle effects in random walk
processes that have large long term cumulative effects.  Interestingly, the
gambler's delusion you mention above is supported as reality somewhat by
the tendency of random walk processes to produce lucky streaks.  This does
not mean the probability of the individual events changes in any manner
whatsoever. In fact the individual events must remain independent for the
random walk theory to be valid.   The lucky streaks predicted by random
walk theory are based on the tendancy for the PURSE to remain positive or
negative for long periods in a fair game, one with no house advantage.  The
individual events remain independent.



>It is sure to come up heads!" Actually, the chance of heads
>on the fourth throw are exactly the same as on any other: 50 - 50. The
>events are not linked, since there is no physical causality or mechanism
>that would carry influence from one event to the next. There is no "memory"


Yes, there IS a memory.  The memory conists of the cash balance of the
gambler's purse.  This is what makes the process a random walk process.
What "walks" is the cash balance.  When the gambler is broke he must quit -
or else go get more money, in which case he simply starts a new random walk
from that new balance.  This "bottom line" effect does more than just cut
off a tail of the distribuiton.  It prevents return of many walks from
below the line and thus diminishes contributions to the probabilities of
values above the line at future stages.  BTW, this makes the computation of
the true probabilites very memory intensive and game specific.

Also, in addition to the adjustable payout probabilites of mechanical slot
machines (to which I assume Terry Blanton alludes), video poker/slot/gaming
machines have memory in the form of RAM.  Their payouts are very carefully
managed.  And of course the opportunity for fraud is stupendous.  That
particular gaming industry requires extensive and a very expert form of
policing.   It is shocking the 20 percent house advantages are legal for
these machines, though maybe not optimal for the places that set the take
that high.  That means you can expect to lose a hundred bet purse in less
than 500 bets. Since the machines set so high typically take smaller
amounts, like coins, the 100 bet purse so lost is smaller, maybe only $125.
You should only expect to pay about $25 an hour to play a quarter slot
machine.  This is an insideous effect.  The mom with kids hanging on who is
betting her grocery money in the cheap machine actually gets fleeced by a
bigger house percentage than the bigger bettors.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


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Horace Heffner wrote:

>Also, in addition to the adjustable payout probabilites of mechanical slot
>machines (to which I assume Terry Blanton alludes), video poker/slot/gaming
>machines have memory in the form of RAM.  Their payouts are very carefully
>managed. 
>

Exactly.  My mother is a two-bit slot-a-holic; but, she generally wins. 
 Regulated slot payouts are as high as 98.2%; although, most are in the 
90% range.  Mom spends more time watching than playing and does a fine 
job seeking out machines which are "due".

She says don't play the slots on cruise ships as they have very low 
payouts.  I don't know if any regulation applies once they are beyond 
the 20 miles limit.

Terry

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Jed Rothwell wrote:

> Yes, they are required to pay out a minimum percent, but this does not 
> require a "memory" -- mechanical or software. The older mechanical 
> ones simply had an arrangement of gears that randomly selected a 
> payoff or not, more often not. 


Well, I don't see how they can be verifiable without a memory:

http://www.slots-it.com/slot-machine-payout-percentages/


> Given the vagaries of Windows, you hardly need a random number generator.


Now *that* is funny!


Terry


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 28 13:27:03 2003
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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: A PERSPECTIVE ON GAMBLING IN ALASKA
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Horace Heffner wrote:

>Also, in addition to the adjustable payout probabilites of mechanical slot
>machines (to which I assume Terry Blanton alludes), video 
>poker/slot/gaming machines have memory in the form of RAM.  Their payouts 
>are very carefully managed.  And of course the opportunity for fraud is 
>stupendous.

The RAM does not serve as a "memory" in the sense I meant. That is to say, 
it does not interfere with the random number generator, or tell the machine 
not to pay off on this round because it just paid off recently. (At least, 
the RAM is not supposed to do that! Of course, it could easily be 
programmed to do that.)

The opportunity for corruption may well be stupendous, but it shouldn't be. 
It need not be. I can dream up a small set of regulations that would fix 
the problem. Such as:

1. Manufacturers are required to use some widely used OS such as Linux.

2. They must write in a commonly used high level language.

3. All source code must be posted on the Internet.

4. There should be a simple and foolproof test to examine the EPROM and be 
sure that program is what is running. A throwback to the "RUN / STOP / 
EXAMINE" buttons of yore would do the job.

Incidentally, this same set of rules should apply to voting machines. They 
are much more serious problem than slot machines.

Voting machines scare the pants off of me. I know too much to trust them. 
In the 1970s the New Yorker described Data General minis that were used as 
voting machines connected to modems. That was a dumb idea! I was working 
with that model of mini. It was a marvelous thing. Very reliable & fast. 
But most customers never changed the default programmer access passwords, 
and the New Yorker hinted this was the case with the voting machines. (That 
was normal; most users had no idea there was such an access password.) In 
other words, if you had given me the phone number to the 300 BAUD modem, I 
could have called in, examined or changed any byte in memory, be it program 
or data. There were no modem access logs or anything like that. With only 
64 KB to look through it was wasn't hard to find the register where 
something like a vote tally was stored. It wasn't hard to find anything! 
There was no place to hide and no room for sophisticated programs.

Talking about Security, here is an interesting story, that should give all 
readers Faith & Confidence in the All-knowing Government:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/27/magazine/27LIVES.html

QUOTES:

The whole strange thing began nearly two years ago, when an acquaintance 
e-mailed me, wondering why the Secret Service had contacted him to ask if 
he thought I was a threat to George W. Bush. Me? A pretzel is more of a 
threat to Bush than I am. . . .

Private investigators have been known to intimate that they're *with the 
government*, so I called the Secret Service's Seattle office to report that 
someone might be impersonating one of their agents. No, the officer 
responded, they had wanted to contact me for the past eight months but 
couldn't find me. Weird -- my name and number were in the Seattle phone 
book. I went to their office to find out what was going on. . . .


- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 28 13:42:50 2003
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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: A PERSPECTIVE ON GAMBLING IN ALASKA
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Terry Blanton wrote:

>>Yes, they are required to pay out a minimum percent, but this does not 
>>require a "memory" -- mechanical or software. The older mechanical ones 
>>simply had an arrangement of gears that randomly selected a payoff or 
>>not, more often not.
>
>
>Well, I don't see how they can be verifiable without a memory:

That's a log or register. It is not the kind of controlling "memory" I 
mean. I mean only one thing: a mechanical or software device that affects 
the performance or outcome of the current round of operations based on 
recent previous rounds. As I said, it would be very easy to make this kind 
of device, and for all I they *do* make them! But they are not supposed to.

All slot machines (mechanical or software) must have a random outcome 
generator, and they must also have a transaction register recording inputs 
and outputs. All such machines must record transactions, mainly to keep 
employees from stealing. This was the main reason Ritter and NCR founder 
Patterson invented the cash register, the first modern accounting machine. 
It was the grand-daddy of the slot machine, the Enigma, the Enigma 
code-breaker Bombes, and at least the grand-uncle of the computer. (The 
British Bombes were made in a cash register factory.) To be more exact, the 
computer evolved from a combination of the cash register plus Herman 
Hollerith's census tally machines, and I think the latter were the more 
important contribution.

- Jed


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To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: A PERSPECTIVE ON GAMBLING IN ALASKA
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Terry Blanton wrote:

>Exactly.  My mother is a two-bit slot-a-holic; but, she generally wins. 
>Regulated slot payouts are as high as 98.2%; although, most are in the 90% 
>range.  Mom spends more time watching than playing and does a fine job 
>seeking out machines which are "due".

That's the gambler's delusion! There is no such thing as being "due." Every 
time you run a slot machine, the chances of winning are exactly the same as 
they were in every previous round.

HOWEVER, that is not quite right, because some of the older ones (and 
perhaps the newer ones too?) sometimes disgorged a lot of money at one time 
-- the "jackpot." I suppose if the internal coin holders were not filled 
the jackpot amount might have varied. Maybe it still does? In other words 
if you hit the jackpot twice in a row early in the day perhaps there were 
not enough coins left internally. I know the machines have to be filled 
part way by the cassino employee before the first customer uses them, to 
ensure they will pay off. This is similar to vending machines, which must 
be primed with change so that people can use inexact amounts. (Vending 
machines are more interesting and complicated than they look. When Taylor, 
Dyson et al. designed the nuclear bomb powered rocket ship Orion in 1958, 
they consulted with the Coca-Cola company about how to reliably eject bombs.)

I have never actually used a slot machine, so I could be mistaken. I have 
only studied them and talked to a technician in the course of learning 
about random numbers, secret codes, the Enigma, nuclear bomb powered 
spacecraft, and so on.

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 28 14:16:23 2003
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Subject: RE: OFF TOPIC: A PERSPECTIVE ON GAMBLING IN ALASKA
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 17:32:14 -0400
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Hi Horace.

You know, I must be feeling stupid today, but I'm just
missing the basic thrust of your argument.

Take any gambling game, and reduce it to a probability
of winning. Let's take roulette for example. A simple
bet on a single number is a 1/38 chance of winning.
Now each lottery bet has a 1/20000000 chance of
winning. I have no problem imagining that you will
lose in the long term on either system. But I
suspect that I'll on average take longer to
lose my shirt playing the roulette system as I do playing
the lottery, bet for bet. I can be even more
extreme here and bet on red or black, getting a
1/2 chance of winning per bet. Which system
is going to bust you sooner????

>It is NOT just a tax if it deceptively takes money from the unsuspecting.
>I think there may be more than just a point of morality involved.  It may
>be an issue for the law.

Both the lottery and casino style gambling takes money
from the unsuspecting. So does your 401K, if you have
one... And when the government promotes a system to
take money from people for it's use, that's a tax.
Both casino and lottery both are voluntary, so I
find them similar to a sales tax on some good or service
that not everyone uses. Again, I suggest that the
deciding factor should be WHO is paying the tax.
I don't have the demographic information, so I'm
just relying on anecdotal evidence and experience that
on the whole wealthier people play blackjack at
a casino than play the lottery.

>Lottery sales are very honest and straight up about the odds of winning or
>losing.

Yeah? We have had a lottery here for years, and the commercials
are embarrasing. "All you need is a dollar and a dream" with
lots of happy low to middle income people telling us what
they would do with 1 million dollars. It's pathetic, and it's
targeted directly at the poor and working poor.

>Oil revenues are drying up due to the closing of many areas to exploration.
>Logging has effectively been killed off too. Voters have said they do not
>want an income tax.

Yes, voters want government services but they don't want
to pay for them. And politicians capitalize on this
to soak the poor. The fraud you seek is right there, in
that people voting for this stuff are completely ignorant
of the fact that they will in fact have to pay for it, and
that really it's the top 1% of the population who mostly
benefit from lack of tax increases.

K.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 28 14:19:06 2003
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Jed Rothwell wrote:

> Incidentally, this same set of rules should apply to voting machines. 
> They are much more serious problem than slot machines.
>
> Voting machines scare the pants off of me. I know too much to trust them. 


I absolutely and totally agree!!!  When I voted in the last election on 
those contraptions, I considered a dozen ways that someone could "stuff 
the box".

Today, there are discussions on having the machines generate a hard copy 
so the voter can verify his selection.  And, get this, the verified 
hardcopy would be fed into an optical scanner to crosscheck.  What was 
wrong with the old optical system?  

I smell a rat.

Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 28 14:35:44 2003
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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:34:38 +1200
From: RBR <RBR clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: A PERSPECTIVE ON GAMBLING IN ALASKA
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
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look I'm getting sick of receiving these of topic pork barrel pushing
subjects ,that have no bearing on the subject matter , it diverts the energy
of the group......you could say its his right to post and its mine and also
any ones else right to post what ever they wanted ...where the heck would we
be then . Thankfully its only a small group ...may I suggest they go and
open there own group on what ever .
                             RBR




----- Original Message -----
From: "Jed Rothwell" <JedRothwell mindspring.com>
To: <vortex-L eskimo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 4:10 AM
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: A PERSPECTIVE ON GAMBLING IN ALASKA


> Horace Heffner wrote:
>
> >It is distressing and appalling that serious consideration is now being
> >given to a state lottery and to permitting gambling machines in Alaska.
>
> I do not approve of these things either. However if people are going to
> play the lottery it is better to conduct it under state control, and to
tax
> it. Gambling machines are reportedly addictive. The only pleasing thing
> about cassinos in the southeast is that many are run by Indian tribes. It
> is poetic justice to see Native Americans ripping off stupid white people.
> Last year one tribe distributed $6,000 per capita to members, according to
> the Atlanta Journal.
>
>
> >One of the fundamental errors in thinking that gamblers make is to think
> >of every bet as a "new day", a chance to start over, to change luck, when
> >in fact this is not true at all.  Oddly, one of the first things taught
in
> >probability theory is the nature of independent vs dependent events.
Most
> >gamblers think, and are taught to think, of each event, each roll of the
> >dice, as an independent event.  This is true only in an academic sense
> >when applied to human gambling, that a specific roll of the dice is an
> >"independent" event.   The successive rolls of the dice are not
> >independent if the gambler has a finite purse.
>
> I believe it is just the opposite. The classic "gambler's delusion" is
that
> random events are linked and have a pattern. Say a gambler is betting
heads
> or tails on the fall of a coin. He bets heads three times in a row but it
> comes up tails three times in a row. He might think, "my luck is bound to
> turn this time. It is sure to come up heads!" Actually, the chance of
heads
> on the fourth throw are exactly the same as on any other: 50 - 50. The
> events are not linked, since there is no physical causality or mechanism
> that would carry influence from one event to the next. There is no
"memory"
> in an ordinary coin, or a betting machine, or the ping-pong balls used in
> the Georgia lottery. It would be easy to devise a betting machine that
> *does* have a memory, but I believe that would be against the law.
>
> Other objects do have various memory effects. The Mean Time to Failure
> (MTTF) in a machine, for example, is partly random and partly a function
of
> wear and tear on parts. After an old fashioned hard disk ran for ~2 years,
> only a fool would bet against a near-term disastrous failure and data
loss.
> Many fools did bet against this, and lost jobs, businesses, etc.
>
> Heffner's point is completely correct. When the odds of an event occurring
> are even slightly below unity, making a sufficiently long series of bets
on
> that event is certain to be a losing proposition.
>
> There are some forms of gambling that are not purely based on luck, such
as
> poker and betting on horses. Knowledge and skill plays a role in these
> activities, and a person can make a living doing them, or even a fortune.
I
> once knew a grey-haired lady who looked like Grandma from Central Casting,
> who was a professional poker player at Las Vegas. She "played for the
> house" whatever that means.
>
> - Jed
>
>

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Jed writes:

>Talking about Security, here is an interesting story, that should give all
>readers Faith & Confidence in the All-knowing Government:

>http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/27/magazine/27LIVES.html


I am reminded of the late Dr. Timothy Leary, who was asked
what he thought of G Gordon Liddy spying on him at Millbrook.
Tim smiled, and said "I welcome and encourage surveillance.
I want to show the FBI agents how it is to really live your
life".

K.


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My this day has been a stroll down memory lane. It is appropriate in a way, 
because I spent most of the day waiting for the phone company and Earthlink 
to agree what was the matter with my phone & computer connections. Just now 
the ADSL light came on, the "Test ATM OAM segment ping" and "Test ATM OAM 
end-to-end ping" both PASSED, and I am back in the 21st Century.

Terry Blanton wrote:

>Today, there are discussions on having the machines generate a hard copy 
>so the voter can verify his selection.  And, get this, the verified 
>hardcopy would be fed into an optical scanner to crosscheck.  What was 
>wrong with the old optical system?

How old? A lot was wrong with the old-old ones! I mean punch cards, OCR 
check readers, and everything else prior to the modern bar-code readers. A 
receipt with bar-code would be fine. The code always includes the same data 
in human readable numbers at the bottom, and it is easy to verify that the 
two correspond.

One of my first jobs was at NCR software development, back when gadgets 
like that were still common. I never actually used one but the engineers 
said they were very troublesome, and everyone looked forward to bar code 
and magnetic strip machines that were rapidly replacing them.

Mag-strip cards were invented in Japan to alleviate overcrowding on 
commuter trains. In the 1960s, the rail system reached its peak capacity. 
Things got to the point where "pushers" on station platforms would jam 
people into rail cars. (I think this was mainly to help overcome 
embarrassment rather than actually squeeze people.) Anyway, it turned out 
the biggest bottleneck was buying tickets before boarding, and handing over 
the tickets when you left the station. They invented mag strip tickets that 
work much faster than a human ticket taker. The lines of passengers moving 
through the Wickets went faster, and today Japan's commuter trains are much 
less crowded.

The U.S. Census Bureau has an amazing collection of machines that read 
multi-page forms filled in with pencil. I mean they read hundreds of 
thousands of those forms per hour! The Bureau also had, at one point in the 
1960s, the world's largest collection of antiquated computers still in use. 
One night a false fire alarm triggered. Water sprayed all over this mighty 
mass of machinery, destroying it, much to everyone's relief. I asked my 
mother, "so after that you got the latest stuff?" She said yes, but it did 
not help much, because unfortunately you cannot change out a programmer's 
brains, or trade in old people the way you trade in machines.

That was then. Nowadays old people are innovative, and the young stand in 
the way of progress.

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 28 14:57:24 2003
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From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 18:14:54 -0400
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Hi RBR.

Although I agree that off topic posts can be distracting,
I suggest that the solution is to start a discussion
of your own here which is on topic. We aren't a television
show that lurkers vote on, you're a participant and
should take responsibility. Why not share some experimental
evidence or theory, rather than just post a message once
a month telling us all to shut up and stay on topic,
which you've been doing for the past 4 months? No offense
intended, just friendly advice. Share a little, and
you'll find us happy to contribute to your discussion.
And the subject matter will suddenly become on topic (grin).

K.

-----Original Message-----
From: RBR [mailto:RBR clear.net.nz]
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 5:35 PM
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: A PERSPECTIVE ON GAMBLING IN ALASKA


look I'm getting sick of receiving these of topic pork barrel pushing
subjects ,that have no bearing on the subject matter , it diverts the energy
of the group......you could say its his right to post and its mine and also
any ones else right to post what ever they wanted ...where the heck would we
be then . Thankfully its only a small group ...may I suggest they go and
open there own group on what ever .
                             RBR




----- Original Message -----
From: "Jed Rothwell" <JedRothwell mindspring.com>
To: <vortex-L eskimo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 4:10 AM
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: A PERSPECTIVE ON GAMBLING IN ALASKA


> Horace Heffner wrote:
>
> >It is distressing and appalling that serious consideration is now being
> >given to a state lottery and to permitting gambling machines in Alaska.
>
> I do not approve of these things either. However if people are going to
> play the lottery it is better to conduct it under state control, and to
tax
> it. Gambling machines are reportedly addictive. The only pleasing thing
> about cassinos in the southeast is that many are run by Indian tribes. It
> is poetic justice to see Native Americans ripping off stupid white people.
> Last year one tribe distributed $6,000 per capita to members, according to
> the Atlanta Journal.
>
>
> >One of the fundamental errors in thinking that gamblers make is to think
> >of every bet as a "new day", a chance to start over, to change luck, when
> >in fact this is not true at all.  Oddly, one of the first things taught
in
> >probability theory is the nature of independent vs dependent events.
Most
> >gamblers think, and are taught to think, of each event, each roll of the
> >dice, as an independent event.  This is true only in an academic sense
> >when applied to human gambling, that a specific roll of the dice is an
> >"independent" event.   The successive rolls of the dice are not
> >independent if the gambler has a finite purse.
>
> I believe it is just the opposite. The classic "gambler's delusion" is
that
> random events are linked and have a pattern. Say a gambler is betting
heads
> or tails on the fall of a coin. He bets heads three times in a row but it
> comes up tails three times in a row. He might think, "my luck is bound to
> turn this time. It is sure to come up heads!" Actually, the chance of
heads
> on the fourth throw are exactly the same as on any other: 50 - 50. The
> events are not linked, since there is no physical causality or mechanism
> that would carry influence from one event to the next. There is no
"memory"
> in an ordinary coin, or a betting machine, or the ping-pong balls used in
> the Georgia lottery. It would be easy to devise a betting machine that
> *does* have a memory, but I believe that would be against the law.
>
> Other objects do have various memory effects. The Mean Time to Failure
> (MTTF) in a machine, for example, is partly random and partly a function
of
> wear and tear on parts. After an old fashioned hard disk ran for ~2 years,
> only a fool would bet against a near-term disastrous failure and data
loss.
> Many fools did bet against this, and lost jobs, businesses, etc.
>
> Heffner's point is completely correct. When the odds of an event occurring
> are even slightly below unity, making a sufficiently long series of bets
on
> that event is certain to be a losing proposition.
>
> There are some forms of gambling that are not purely based on luck, such
as
> poker and betting on horses. Knowledge and skill plays a role in these
> activities, and a person can make a living doing them, or even a fortune.
I
> once knew a grey-haired lady who looked like Grandma from Central Casting,
> who was a professional poker player at Las Vegas. She "played for the
> house" whatever that means.
>
> - Jed
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 28 15:10:11 2003
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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell mindspring.com>
Subject: RBR: Please adjust your mailreader to block OFF TOPIC messages
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RBR wrote:

>look I'm getting sick of receiving these of topic pork barrel pushing
>subjects ,that have no bearing on the subject matter , it diverts the 
>energy of the group......

RBR:

Please note the messages have "OFF TOPIC" in capital letters in the subject 
field. This marks idle chit-chat, jokes, and other content that people like 
you may find distracting or uninteresting. Please adjust your mail reader 
to delete anything from Vortex marked OFF TOPIC. Or, sort by title and 
delete the whole batch.

We adapted this protocol some years ago. It is handy.

Inflammatory or highly political messages should be sent to Vortex-BL. We 
could also send this idle chit-chat to Vortex-BL, if the readers here would 
prefer that, but I think it is better to have two ways to sort messages. 
"OFF TOPIC" is reserved for apolitical, somewhat technical info that has 
nothing to do with o-u energy, CF, or weird research, but which still might 
of general interest to the kind of people who perk up when you mention that 
the Coca-Cola company once assisted in a project to build a rocket ship 
powered by nuclear bombs. (Really!)

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 28 18:23:09 2003
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Subject: *******Newly-posted information....
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--============_-1160543497==_ma============
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Newly-posted information at:

http://www.josephnewman.com








"The Theory I propose may ... be called a Theory of the 
Electromagnetic Field because it has to do with the space in the 
neighborhood of the electric or magnetic bodies, AND IT MAY BE CALLED 
A DYNAMICAL THEORY, BECAUSE IT ASSUMES THAT IN THAT SPACE THERE IS 
MATTER IN MOTION, BY WHICH THE OBSERVED ELECTROMAGNETIC PHENOMENA ARE 
PRODUCED."
  
--- JAMES CLERK MAXWELL

--============_-1160543497==_ma============
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"
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<center>

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><bigger><bigger>Newly-posted
information at:


<bold><bigger>http://www.josephnewman.com

</bigger></bold></bigger></bigger></fontfamily></center><fontfamily><param>A=
rial</param><bigger><bigger><bold><bigger>








</bigger></bold></bigger>"The Theory I propose may ... be called a
Theory of the Electromagnetic Field because it has to do with the space
in the neighborhood of the electric or magnetic bodies, AND IT MAY BE
CALLED A DYNAMICAL THEORY, BECAUSE IT ASSUMES THAT IN THAT SPACE THERE
IS <bold>MATTER IN MOTION</bold>, BY WHICH THE OBSERVED ELECTROMAGNETIC
PHENOMENA ARE PRODUCED."  =20

                                                                      =20
                                             --- JAMES CLERK MAXWELL=20
</bigger></fontfamily>

--============_-1160543497==_ma============--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 28 18:38:57 2003
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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 16:39:20 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: A PERSPECTIVE ON GAMBLING IN ALASKA
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At 9:34 AM 4/29/3, RBR wrote:
>look I'm getting sick of receiving these of topic pork barrel pushing
>subjects ,that have no bearing on the subject matter , it diverts the energy
>of the group......you could say its his right to post and its mine and also
>any ones else right to post what ever they wanted ...where the heck would we
>be then . Thankfully its only a small group ...may I suggest they go and
>open there own group on what ever .
>                             RBR
>
>


I've had my say, so I, for one, am happy to drop the subject and am
greatful for having had the chance to discuss it somewhere.  The Anchorage
Daily News has not responded and I doubt they will.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 28 19:24:20 2003
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From: "DonW" <dwiegel attbi.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
References: <v01530501bad387a2833b [12.21.209.147]>
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: A PERSPECTIVE ON GAMBLING IN ALASKA
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 20:24:08 -0600
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I look forward to ALL VORTEX discussions .. even the OFF TOPIC ones
Right or Wrong .. You make me (us) think .. And that's not easy to do.
..DonW..

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Horace Heffner" <hheffner mtaonline.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: A PERSPECTIVE ON GAMBLING IN ALASKA


| At 9:34 AM 4/29/3, RBR wrote:
| >look I'm getting sick of receiving these of topic pork barrel pushing
| >subjects ,that have no bearing on the subject matter , it diverts the energy
| >of the group......you could say its his right to post and its mine and also
| >any ones else right to post what ever they wanted ...where the heck would we
| >be then . Thankfully its only a small group ...may I suggest they go and
| >open there own group on what ever .
| >                             RBR
| >
| >
| 
| 
| I've had my say, so I, for one, am happy to drop the subject and am
| greatful for having had the chance to discuss it somewhere.  The Anchorage
| Daily News has not responded and I doubt they will.
| 
| Regards,
| 
| Horace Heffner          
| 
| 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 29 00:09:47 2003
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: RE: OFF TOPIC: A PERSPECTIVE ON GAMBLING IN ALASKA
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At 5:32 PM 4/28/3, Keith Nagel wrote:
>Hi Horace.
>
>You know, I must be feeling stupid today, but I'm just
>missing the basic thrust of your argument.
>
>Take any gambling game, and reduce it to a probability
>of winning. Let's take roulette for example. A simple
>bet on a single number is a 1/38 chance of winning.
>Now each lottery bet has a 1/20000000 chance of
>winning. I have no problem imagining that you will
>lose in the long term on either system. But I
>suspect that I'll on average take longer to
>lose my shirt playing the roulette system as I do playing
>the lottery, bet for bet. I can be even more
>extreme here and bet on red or black, getting a
>1/2 chance of winning per bet. Which system
>is going to bust you sooner????


Sorry, but this question, which was posted before the off topic complaint,
really deserves a good answer, as it is at the heart of the issue.

To see which is better take a look at the expected win amount over the one
month period of a lottery.  If a gambler has $100 to bet for that time he
will gamble it all away.  His expected win value over the 100 hours or so
of gambling time during the month will be less than a millionth of a cent.
If a roulette wheel has 38 slots then 2 will be without color (house take)
and 18 will be black and 18 red. The house take will be about 5.26 cents
per dollar bet.  The gambler can expect to be broke in less than 1900 bets,
or less thn 19 hours of betting.  He will probably try to obtain even more
money with which to vindicate himself.

The lottery ticket buyer probably will not even spend the full $100 on
tickets (unless there are lots of quick turnaround small pots, which will
in fact act just like casion gambling. My assumption is a single large pot
that can attract out of state money - especially when no winnner shows up
and the expected win becomes positive on a subsequent "let it ride" round.)
But lets assume he does spend the full $100 on the lottery in order to
compare apples to apples.  Lotteries typically take about half the
proceeds.  The $100 provides about a $50 expected win, as opposed to the
less one millionth of a cent for the roulette gambler.

Typically both betters end up broke.  However, the lottery ticket buyer is
more likely to stay on budget, more likely to win, and will definitely be
told the truth about his approximate odds.  If the lottery goes into a let
it ride round, he may even end up with more than fair odds.  Lastly, the
lottery ticket buyer really only needs to buy one ticket a month to keep
his dream alive. The machine gambler has to find a way to keep feeding the
beast to keep his dream alive.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 29 02:16:39 2003
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Subject: Updated Podkletnov/Modanese paper shows laser interacting with gravity 
 impulse
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See http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/physics/0209051

There is an update of the paper below with several additions and the result of laser beam attenuated by gravity impulse.

Regards,
hamdi ucar



From: Giovanni Modanese <giovanni.modanese unibz.it>
Date (v1): Thu, 12 Sep 2002 14:55:34 GMT   (226kb)
Date (revised v2): Sat, 26 Apr 2003 13:35:56 GMT   (199kb)

Investigation of high voltage discharges in low pressure gases through
large ceramic superconducting electrodes

Authors: Evgeny Podkletnov, Giovanni Modanese
Comments: PDF, 18 pages, 5 figures. Final journal version

  A device has been built and tested, in which a ceramic superconducting
  cathode and a copper anode cause electrical discharges in low pressure
  gases, at temperatures between 50 and 70 K. The electrodes are connected to
  a capacitors array charged up to 2000 kV; peak currents are of the order of
  10^4 A. The cathode has the diameter of 10 cm and is fabricated by OCMTG
  technology. In discharges at voltage above 500 kV two new phenomena were
  observed, probably related to each other. First, the discharge does not look
  like a spark, but is a flat, glowing discharge, which originates from the whole
  surface of the superconducting electrode. Furthermore, a radiation pulse is
  emitted at the discharge, which propagates orthogonally to the cathode,
  towards the anode and beyond it, in a collimated beam, apparently without any
  attenuation. The radiation pulse carries an energy of 10^-3 J at least. The
  features and the nature of this radiation have been investigated by several
  means, still it was not possible to identify it; we can only exclude that it is
  electromagnetic radiation or any other radiation with energy-momentum
  relationship E=cp.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 29 05:47:26 2003
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Subject: OFF TOPIC: VOTING MACHINES
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Rebecca Mercuri has studied voting machines for some years. A while back,
she published an article in, technology Review or IEEE Spectrum (don't
remember which) pointing out the various hazards of various approaches. As I
recall her ideal configuration included a touch screen with internal logic
which prevented ambiguous choices like smeared pencil marks, hanging chad,
and the like. It also included a printer which produced a sheet with the
vote on it which the voter could see and approve or reject. The page was
displayed behind a window where nobody could touch it. On approval by the
voter it was deposited in a bin which could be accessed only by voting
officials. Thus there was a paper audit trail as well as an electronic
tally.

I don't know if such machines have been built or how much they would cost.

Mike Carrell

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 29 08:05:32 2003
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Mike Carrell wrote:

>. . . The page was displayed behind a window where nobody could touch it. 
>On approval by the voter it was deposited in a bin which could be accessed 
>only by voting officials. Thus there was a paper audit trail as well as an 
>electronic tally.
>
>I don't know if such machines have been built or how much they would  cost.

Without knowing a thing about it, I would hazard a guess that the cost of 
such machines should be quite reasonable when produced in quantity. They 
are similar in principle to ordinary cash registers, which keep two paper 
registers (one internal and inaccessible). Cash registers at Office Depot 
cost $150 to $400.

Voting machines seem overpriced. This article says they cost up to $7,000 each:

http://www.notablesoftware.com/Press/Lane.html

Compared to computers, data storage with paper is awkward and expensive, 
but for short-term storage after an election or a day at a grocery store, 
paper is still cheap in absolute terms. It is okay for a onetime archive 
that is not likely to be used, such as a receipt or a ticket. As I have 
noted, as media for distributing scientific papers to people all around the 
world, paper is incredibly expensive. The cost of distributing documents 
from LENR-CANR would be ~1000 times higher with paper. As a practical 
matter, few people would bother to ask for documents in that format. People 
download material from LENR-CANR now because it is instantly available. The 
reader can see something when the spirit moves him. It may be that many 
people often download papers and only glance at them instead of reading 
them carefully. Perhaps if they were to order a document, pay for it, and 
wait a week for it to arrive, they would be more inclined to read it carefully.

A few years ago I estimated the cost of scanning old paper documents and 
saving them as images, using PaperPort software. I was shocked to find that 
even then it was cheaper than keeping the documents around on paper, when 
you take into account the rent for space to hold file cabinet and boxes of 
paper. The problem is it is a lot of work to scan paper, even with an 
automatic sheet feeder. Nowadays, hard disk storage cost is approaching 
$1/GB, and computer RAM sells for $80 per gigabyte. Typical papers scanned 
at high resolution take 80 to 800 KB per page, or 1250 pages/GB worst case, 
or $0.0008 per page.

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 29 08:33:37 2003
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From: "Jones Beene" <jonesb9 pacbell.net>
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Subject: Wavecrest Hub Motor
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The environmentally-acceptable electric car of the future will require a =
lot of totally new technology from a lot of different resources. And the =
big US auto companies will probably end-up having to buy into that game =
belatedly, rather than pushing it forward from within... and at =
exorbitant cost, passed on to you the consumer, of course. Many =
far-sighted (and/or greedy) of today's creative thinkers, not to mention =
the always vigilant and petro-poor Japanese, are not to be miffed by =
this predicament and are trying to jump on the "every small improvement" =
band-wagon, before it gets too far down the road.

Of course, producing or storing enough electricity on-board for several =
hundred miles, without any need whatsoever for fossil fuels, is the main =
goal of most idealists ... but it would be a pity if we got to that =
point rather quickly and couldn't put an innovative power plant to use =
effectively because of delays in the mechanical infrastructure.

Not to worry. Besides the Japanese, a new company called Wavecrest =
Laboratories has an innovative electric motor design (not quite =
vaporware) that fits into the wheel itself - with no drive train =
required, and will give an unbelievable 737 lb-ft of torque from  35 kW, =
or so they say. They are very desirous, for whatever reason, of getting =
a lot of free publicity as we speak...(can you spell IPO ?)
http://www.wavecrestlabs.com/technology/adaptive_motor.html

The basic idea for a "hub motor" is not new (Wavecrest wants you to =
believe it is new, but it was tossed around long ago) and unfortunately, =
the motor itself is now only available for bicycles and is made in China =
by competitors... but ah, life is full of compromises. And the fact that =
this company hired Gen. Wesley Clark, ret., is either curiously scary to =
those competitors, or indicative of the new post-war political focus...

Jones


Back-by-popular demand, the PPS (pregnant postscript):

How do you see "The Future" expanding from the current situation?  =
...does it,=20

sound like freedom but smell like death=20
it's something in between, I guess=20
it's closing time=20
=20
With apologies to L.C. and speak of the devil, if your maturation, or =
attempts at such, occurred during the idealistic sixties: flower power =
and all that... you probably wondered about Suzanne... (she takes you =
hand, etc). Thanks to the internet you can wax nostalgic at:
http://www.leonardcohenfiles.com/verdal.html

------=_NextPart_000_0047_01C30E29.5BC9B6A0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"><BASE=20
href=3D"file://C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft =
Shared\Stationery\">
<STYLE>BODY {
	BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; MARGIN-TOP: 25px; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 25px; COLOR: #000000; BACKGROUND-REPEAT: no-repeat; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial
}
</STYLE>

<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>The environmentally-acceptable electric car of the future will =
require a=20
lot of totally new technology from a lot of different resources. And the =
big US=20
auto companies will probably end-up having to buy into&nbsp;that=20
game&nbsp;belatedly, rather than pushing it forward from within... and =
at=20
exorbitant cost, passed on to you the consumer, of course. Many =
far-sighted=20
(and/or greedy)&nbsp;of today's creative thinkers, not to mention the =
always=20
vigilant and petro-poor Japanese,&nbsp;are not to be miffed by this =
predicament=20
and are trying to jump on the "every small improvement" band-wagon, =
before it=20
gets too far down the road.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Of course, producing or storing enough electricity on-board for =
several=20
hundred miles, without any need whatsoever&nbsp;for fossil fuels, is the =
main=20
goal of most idealists ... but it would be a pity if we got to that =
point rather=20
quickly and couldn't put&nbsp;an innovative power plant&nbsp;to use =
effectively=20
because of delays in the mechanical infrastructure.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Not to worry.&nbsp;Besides the Japanese, a&nbsp;new company called=20
Wavecrest Laboratories has an innovative electric motor design (not =
quite=20
vaporware) that fits into the wheel itself - with no drive train =
required, and=20
will give an unbelievable 737 lb-ft of torque from&nbsp; 35 kW, or so =
they say.=20
They are very desirous, for whatever reason, of getting a lot of free =
publicity=20
as we speak...(can you spell IPO ?)</DIV>
<DIV><A=20
href=3D"http://www.wavecrestlabs.com/technology/adaptive_motor.html">http=
://www.wavecrestlabs.com/technology/adaptive_motor.html</A></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The basic idea for a "hub motor" is not new (Wavecrest wants you to =
believe=20
it is new, but it was tossed around long ago) and =
unfortunately,&nbsp;the motor=20
itself is now only available for bicycles and&nbsp;is&nbsp;made in China =
by=20
competitors... but ah, life is full of compromises. And the fact that =
this=20
company hired Gen. Wesley Clark, ret.,&nbsp;is either curiously scary to =
those=20
competitors, or indicative of the new post-war&nbsp;political =
focus...</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Jones</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Back-by-popular demand, the PPS (pregnant postscript):</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>How do you see "The Future"&nbsp;expanding from the current=20
situation?&nbsp; ...does it, </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><EM>sound like freedom but smell like death <BR>it's something in =
between,=20
I guess <BR>it's closing time <BR></EM>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>With apologies to L.C. and speak of the devil, if your maturation, =
or=20
attempts at such,&nbsp;occurred during the idealistic sixties: flower =
power and=20
all that... you probably wondered about Suzanne... (she takes you hand, =
etc).=20
Thanks to the internet you can wax nostalgic at:</DIV>
<DIV><A=20
href=3D"http://www.leonardcohenfiles.com/verdal.html">http://www.leonardc=
ohenfiles.com/verdal.html</A><BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0047_01C30E29.5BC9B6A0--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 29 08:36:32 2003
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Subject: press release from Genesis Tech
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For What Its Worth:

http://www.genesisworldenergy.com/pressroom.htm

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 29 08:53:11 2003
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Subject: RE: Updated Podkletnov/Modanese paper shows laser interacting with gravity impulse
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Hi Hamdi.

Thanks for the update. I'm a little disappointed that
more was not done to measure the propagation velocity.
Commercial shock accelerometers exist with resonant
frequencies up to around 130KHz, which for a 1/4 wave
delay would be about 550 meters at speed C, as we
may expect from recent astrophysical reports on G
wavespeed measurements. Such sensors cost only a
few hundred dollars, and I'm sure with more money
even faster response time units can be had. Two such units
on the ends of an equilateral triangle of coax with a base
of 500 meters, each leg going directly to
the scope, would make an adequate wavespeed measuring
apparatus.

If he's interested in more information on my design,
send him my email address, I'd be happy to help him
with his research.

K.


-----Original Message-----
From: hamdix [mailto:hamdix verisoft.com.tr]
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 5:18 AM
To: vortex
Cc: Giovanni Modanese; Dr. Robert Baker, Jr.; lance watkins; Steve
Reinhold
Subject: Updated Podkletnov/Modanese paper shows laser interacting with
gravity impulse



See http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/physics/0209051

There is an update of the paper below with several additions and the result
of laser beam attenuated by gravity impulse.

Regards,
hamdi ucar



From: Giovanni Modanese <giovanni.modanese unibz.it>
Date (v1): Thu, 12 Sep 2002 14:55:34 GMT   (226kb)
Date (revised v2): Sat, 26 Apr 2003 13:35:56 GMT   (199kb)

Investigation of high voltage discharges in low pressure gases through
large ceramic superconducting electrodes

Authors: Evgeny Podkletnov, Giovanni Modanese
Comments: PDF, 18 pages, 5 figures. Final journal version

  A device has been built and tested, in which a ceramic superconducting
  cathode and a copper anode cause electrical discharges in low pressure
  gases, at temperatures between 50 and 70 K. The electrodes are connected
to
  a capacitors array charged up to 2000 kV; peak currents are of the order
of
  10^4 A. The cathode has the diameter of 10 cm and is fabricated by OCMTG
  technology. In discharges at voltage above 500 kV two new phenomena were
  observed, probably related to each other. First, the discharge does not
look
  like a spark, but is a flat, glowing discharge, which originates from the
whole
  surface of the superconducting electrode. Furthermore, a radiation pulse
is
  emitted at the discharge, which propagates orthogonally to the cathode,
  towards the anode and beyond it, in a collimated beam, apparently without
any
  attenuation. The radiation pulse carries an energy of 10^-3 J at least.
The
  features and the nature of this radiation have been investigated by
several
  means, still it was not possible to identify it; we can only exclude that
it is
  electromagnetic radiation or any other radiation with energy-momentum
  relationship E=cp.


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 29 09:17:01 2003
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Hi guys.

Just a success story of sorts -


After revision of the Blue Diamond to the point where it is operational,
 propeller design was in order.

The design of the propeller was constrained to the size of the ductwork,
 meaning we had to achieve thrust using a prop merely 75 cm in diameter.

After 12 experimental props using conventional designs,
 I found that the propwash was almost always turbulent and radial.

Lacking satisfactory thrust, I began to address the issues:
 1) due to the small area to work with (75 cm dia)
     and the target thrust (1200 N), the prop needed to be multiblade
     to the point where each individual blade would not be overloaded.
    "Solidity" of the prop, exacerbated by multiple blades,
      detracts from efficiency (due to extra drag)
    This put an upper limit on the number of blades - I settled on 8.
 2) As this is all 'home built', I knew that whatever I could get built
     would never be as reliable as a professional 'propeller factory'
     could achieve. This meant I had to forgo variable pitch mechanisms,
     as a failure at high RPM is an explosion - we have already seen enough
of those.
 3) As the target velocity is fairly high (47 m/s), the prop pitch
     necessarily becomes high (24 to 30 degrees).
 4) All props are 'stalled' at velocity 0 with no real air currents.
     As the high pitch of the prop contributes to this,
      the rotational energy is higher than the thrust energy at start.

I built 10 standard propellers, and began to regret postponing the
 exit stator to recover swirl energy (still planned, not yet implemented).
Along with this I noted that conventional design had no mechanism for
 minimizing the 'slinging' of air off the prop ends.

In November, I hatched an idea to sweep the propeller blades forward,
 leaning them into the direction of rotation in order to 'scoop' air
 away from the prop tips.
After a couple of explosive tests with GRP models,
 I made a carbon-glass-epoxy unit which succesfully demonstrated higher
thrust than
  the conventional blade designs. I am now constructing a second unit
 with better balance (the first one ran to 2400 rpm, but loosened the drive
mounts).

Looking over the web, I see only one reference to forward swept prop design,
 this posted in January on AIAA
http://apollo.eng.miami.edu/~cfdlab/aiaa_propeller2003.pdf

It appears I have something of value to someone, but I am not sure
 who would be interested in the design and test notes.

I have never performed a design patent, as I don't really feel patents are
of any use.

Any ideas, anyone ?

You can see pictures at http://www.explorecraft.com/ if anyone's interested.

cheers


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 29 10:59:07 2003
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 gravity impulse
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Hi Keith!

I just figured out that the 10^-7 sec or less rise time of the attenuation and long (57m) of cross section if interaction could be used to set some limits on propagation of the gravity impulse (GI)

Simplest attenuation model is progressive attenuation of laser beam as it travel inside the GI.
I also consider the attenuation may caused by partial reflection of the laser beam from the boundaries of GI cylindrical shape or partial refraction, supposing the GI alter refraction index of the volume it occupy. 

Let take simplest attenuation model. Paper did not mention propagation of the laser is it in the same or the opposite direction to GI, but if they were in opposite direction, the rise time should be 200nS at least even the GI propagation is instantaneous. Therefore we can assume they were in same direction. If the GI and laser propagate at same speed, first photon and subsequent photons attenuated by the GI would be exposed to GI in full path of 57m. Therefore propagation time of laser would not contribute to attenuation rise time. As the rise time is measured 10nS or less, this would set both a lower and upper limit on GI speed, that is lower limit is 57m/100ns=
2c and 57m/300nS = 1/2c. Assuming the GI have also a rise time to gain its full strength, these upper and lower limits would be closer to c.

Direct measurement of GI speed by using this attenuation method require a duplicate setup placed along the GI path with a distance. measurement system time resolution should be better than 10nS, preferably 1nS to get an accurate figure. Duplicating sensors, instruments, and tuning the delays would not be easy. I hope Podkletnov team will find a way to realized.

By the way, Podkletnov team had found a faster and very cheap mechanical transducer. It is a simple iron bar (could be a cast) which partially subjected to the GI. GI creating a stress on the bar and this stress is measured by electrical resistance.

May we should donate him with some gallons of Liquid He for next experiments.

Keith Nagel wrote:
> 
> Hi Hamdi.
> 
> Thanks for the update. I'm a little disappointed that
> more was not done to measure the propagation velocity.
> Commercial shock accelerometers exist with resonant
> frequencies up to around 130KHz, which for a 1/4 wave
> delay would be about 550 meters at speed C, as we
> may expect from recent astrophysical reports on G
> wavespeed measurements. Such sensors cost only a
> few hundred dollars, and I'm sure with more money
> even faster response time units can be had. Two such units
> on the ends of an equilateral triangle of coax with a base
> of 500 meters, each leg going directly to
> the scope, would make an adequate wavespeed measuring
> apparatus.
> 
> If he's interested in more information on my design,
> send him my email address, I'd be happy to help him
> with his research.
> 
> K.
> 

Regards,

hamdi ucar


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 29 11:25:47 2003
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I should do a correction on speed limits calculation of GI. 

"lower limit is 57m/100ns= 2c and 57m/300nS = 1/2c.

be corrected as

"upper limit is 57 m/100 ns ~ 2 c and upper limit is 57 m/300 nS ~ 2/3 c.

hamdi ucar

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 29 11:48:02 2003
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Interesting one - Jones -=20

BUT -

Dont listen to too much Leonard Cohen , you might get depressed and jump =
off a bridge or something!

RGDS

Noel Whitney.
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Jones Beene=20
  To: vortex=20
  Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 4:28 PM
  Subject: Wavecrest Hub Motor


  The environmentally-acceptable electric car of the future will require =
a lot of totally new technology from a lot of different resources. And =
the big US auto companies will probably end-up having to buy into that =
game belatedly, rather than pushing it forward from within... and at =
exorbitant cost, passed on to you the consumer, of course. Many =
far-sighted (and/or greedy) of today's creative thinkers, not to mention =
the always vigilant and petro-poor Japanese, are not to be miffed by =
this predicament and are trying to jump on the "every small improvement" =
band-wagon, before it gets too far down the road.

  Of course, producing or storing enough electricity on-board for =
several hundred miles, without any need whatsoever for fossil fuels, is =
the main goal of most idealists ... but it would be a pity if we got to =
that point rather quickly and couldn't put an innovative power plant to =
use effectively because of delays in the mechanical infrastructure.

  Not to worry. Besides the Japanese, a new company called Wavecrest =
Laboratories has an innovative electric motor design (not quite =
vaporware) that fits into the wheel itself - with no drive train =
required, and will give an unbelievable 737 lb-ft of torque from  35 kW, =
or so they say. They are very desirous, for whatever reason, of getting =
a lot of free publicity as we speak...(can you spell IPO ?)
  http://www.wavecrestlabs.com/technology/adaptive_motor.html

  The basic idea for a "hub motor" is not new (Wavecrest wants you to =
believe it is new, but it was tossed around long ago) and unfortunately, =
the motor itself is now only available for bicycles and is made in China =
by competitors... but ah, life is full of compromises. And the fact that =
this company hired Gen. Wesley Clark, ret., is either curiously scary to =
those competitors, or indicative of the new post-war political focus...

  Jones


  Back-by-popular demand, the PPS (pregnant postscript):

  How do you see "The Future" expanding from the current situation?  =
...does it,=20

  sound like freedom but smell like death=20
  it's something in between, I guess=20
  it's closing time=20
  =20
  With apologies to L.C. and speak of the devil, if your maturation, or =
attempts at such, occurred during the idealistic sixties: flower power =
and all that... you probably wondered about Suzanne... (she takes you =
hand, etc). Thanks to the internet you can wax nostalgic at:
  http://www.leonardcohenfiles.com/verdal.html


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"><BASE=20
href=3D"file://C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft =
Shared\Stationery\">
<STYLE>BODY {
	BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; MARGIN-TOP: 25px; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; =
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<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Interesting</FONT><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;one - Jones - =

</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>BUT -</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Dont listen to too much Leonard Cohen , you might =
get=20
depressed and jump off a bridge or something!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>RGDS</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Noel Whitney.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Djonesb9 pacbell.net =
href=3D"mailto:jonesb9 pacbell.net">Jones Beene</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dvortex-l eskimo.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:vortex-l eskimo.com">vortex</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 29, 2003 =
4:28=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Wavecrest Hub =
Motor</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>The environmentally-acceptable electric car of the future will =
require a=20
  lot of totally new technology from a lot of different resources. And =
the big=20
  US auto companies will probably end-up having to buy into&nbsp;that=20
  game&nbsp;belatedly, rather than pushing it forward from within... and =
at=20
  exorbitant cost, passed on to you the consumer, of course. Many =
far-sighted=20
  (and/or greedy)&nbsp;of today's creative thinkers, not to mention the =
always=20
  vigilant and petro-poor Japanese,&nbsp;are not to be miffed by this=20
  predicament and are trying to jump on the "every small improvement"=20
  band-wagon, before it gets too far down the road.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Of course, producing or storing enough electricity on-board for =
several=20
  hundred miles, without any need whatsoever&nbsp;for fossil fuels, is =
the main=20
  goal of most idealists ... but it would be a pity if we got to that =
point=20
  rather quickly and couldn't put&nbsp;an innovative power plant&nbsp;to =
use=20
  effectively because of delays in the mechanical infrastructure.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Not to worry.&nbsp;Besides the Japanese, a&nbsp;new company =
called=20
  Wavecrest Laboratories has an innovative electric motor design (not =
quite=20
  vaporware) that fits into the wheel itself - with no drive train =
required, and=20
  will give an unbelievable 737 lb-ft of torque from&nbsp; 35 kW, or so =
they=20
  say. They are very desirous, for whatever reason, of getting a lot of =
free=20
  publicity as we speak...(can you spell IPO ?)</DIV>
  <DIV><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.wavecrestlabs.com/technology/adaptive_motor.html">http=
://www.wavecrestlabs.com/technology/adaptive_motor.html</A></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>The basic idea for a "hub motor" is not new (Wavecrest wants you =
to=20
  believe it is new, but it was tossed around long ago) and=20
  unfortunately,&nbsp;the motor itself is now only available for =
bicycles=20
  and&nbsp;is&nbsp;made in China by competitors... but ah, life is full =
of=20
  compromises. And the fact that this company hired Gen. Wesley Clark,=20
  ret.,&nbsp;is either curiously scary to those competitors, or =
indicative of=20
  the new post-war&nbsp;political focus...</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Jones</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Back-by-popular demand, the PPS (pregnant postscript):</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>How do you see "The Future"&nbsp;expanding from the current=20
  situation?&nbsp; ...does it, </DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><EM>sound like freedom but smell like death <BR>it's something in =

  between, I guess <BR>it's closing time <BR></EM>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>With apologies to L.C. and speak of the devil, if your =
maturation, or=20
  attempts at such,&nbsp;occurred during the idealistic sixties: flower =
power=20
  and all that... you probably wondered about Suzanne... (she takes you =
hand,=20
  etc). Thanks to the internet you can wax nostalgic at:</DIV>
  <DIV><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.leonardcohenfiles.com/verdal.html">http://www.leonardc=
ohenfiles.com/verdal.html</A><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C30E88.2AEE3060--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 29 12:14:21 2003
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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:09:39 -0400
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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell mindspring.com>
Subject: Auditing paper trails, calibrating, experiments, elections,
  accounting
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Several messages yesterday touched upon these subjects. They are more 
related that you might think. They should be a key concern in the design of 
a computerized data collection system for any purpose, be it accounting, 
safety, election or an experiment. From my point of view, the Three Mile 
Island accident was mainly caused by that instruments and poor data 
processing techniques. As I said in my essay about TMI I said the accident 
resembled nothing so much as a badly designed calorimetry experiment. The 
people running the plant had no idea what the heat balance was or where the 
energy was going until it was too late, and the core was one-third melted.

A couple of times I assisted accountants from a headquarters office audit 
branch office transactions. There were too many records for them to look at 
in a few days, so they picked 50 or so at random and examined them in 
detail. A computer financial accounting system or vote counting system must 
generate a paper trail to allow audits. A poll watcher would not normally 
count every single ballot by hand to ensure a fair election. She would 
randomly select groups of paper ballots and compare them to the 
computerized record. The two must be linked by serial numbers, date and 
time stamps and so on. The person who designs the paper documents must 
think carefully about what will happen if someone drops a batch of them or 
pours coffee on them accidentally, or deliberately destroys them. In other 
words you must have a robust paper trail. You need this to avoid both 
mistakes and fraud. This same rule of thumb applies to experiments. Ohmori 
and other old-fashioned researchers complain that some computerized 
experiments do not produce enough permanent human readable paper data to 
allow an "audit." A person cannot check every data point of course, but it 
is essential to examine random segments of the data in detail, in real 
time, as a "sanity check." You should be able to compare computer readings 
to readings from a handheld meter. This is not done in order to correct the 
computer 1/10 volts, to make it agree with the handheld meter. Actually, 
the computer data collection system is usually much more accurate and 
reliable than the handheld meter. The purpose is to make sure the computer 
is not off by an order of magnitude, or measuring the wrong voltage 
altogether. It was a handheld meter that finally revealed the nature & 
severity of the TMI accident, hours after the sophisticated computerized 
built in system failed to do that.

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 29 12:19:19 2003
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Reply-To: <knagel gis.net>
From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Cc: <hamdix verisoft.com.tr>
Subject: RE: Updated Podkletnov/Modanese paper shows laser interacting with gravity impulse
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:36:12 -0400
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Hi Hamdi.

You write:
>I also consider the attenuation may caused by
> partial reflection of the laser beam from the
> boundaries of GI cylindrical shape or partial
> refraction, supposing the GI alter refraction
> index of the volume it occupy. 

If such is the case, an even simpler detector would
be a photodiode/laser pair perpendicular to the
GI beam direction. Which is what I gather he's
been heading towards.

Your idea about measuring propagation velocity is
interesting, but somewhat indirect. We know little 
about the properties of the thing being studied,
except the experimental evidence that mass can
be accelerated. Hence my suggestion of the shock
accelerometer. Of course, the iron bar idea
seems pretty good, add to it any magnetostrictive
or electrostrictive element as a sensor. Commercial
strain gauges which are already calibrated could
be used, although mostly this stuff is not spec'd
for such high frequencies as we're considering.

1 ns!!!! It would be great to make a GI measurement
to that precision, I've gotten down to about 100ps
for ordinary E&M wavespeed measurements ( that's about
1 inch of light ). But the need for a mechanical sensor
as a primary measuring instrument really limits us here,
designing one from scratch I'd be thinking SMALL.

K.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 29 14:14:39 2003
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 gravity impulse
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Keith Nagel wrote:
> 
> Hi Hamdi.
> 
> You write:
> >I also consider the attenuation may caused by
> > partial reflection of the laser beam from the
> > boundaries of GI cylindrical shape or partial
> > refraction, supposing the GI alter refraction
> > index of the volume it occupy.
> 
> If such is the case, an even simpler detector would
> be a photodiode/laser pair perpendicular to the
> GI beam direction. Which is what I gather he's
> been heading towards.

But, may very narrow angle is required for reflection
refraction index is slightly different. if 3mm diameter laser beam
is directed to the impulse beam with a angle of 1 degree, spot is
elongated to 172 mm. still a practical sensor setup can be made within
1 meter of space.

> 
> Your idea about measuring propagation velocity is
> interesting, but somewhat indirect.

This idea will not work with partial reflection hypothesis
due to short cross section.

> We know little
> about the properties of the thing being studied,
> except the experimental evidence that mass can
> be accelerated. Hence my suggestion of the shock
> accelerometer. 

There is a serious problem there you omitted. Under the gravity impulse everything is accelerating. You should fix this accelerometer on something which not move or vibrate when the impulse is applied. Actually accelerometer will work in reverse, the inertial free moving part will accelerate under the gravity impulse and it fixed parts should not move. Yes you can fix the accelerometer to a concrete wall, but even the wall would move a bit before mechanical tensions stop it. So accelerometer start measurement after the wall no longer move.  This impose a time resolution limit.
 


> Of course, the iron bar idea
> seems pretty good, add to it any magnetostrictive
> or electrostrictive element as a sensor. Commercial
> strain gauges which are already calibrated could
> be used, although mostly this stuff is not spec'd
> for such high frequencies as we're considering.


> 1 ns!!!! It would be great to make a GI measurement
> to that precision, I've gotten down to about 100ps
> for ordinary E&M wavespeed measurements ( that's about
> 1 inch of light ). But the need for a mechanical sensor
> as a primary measuring instrument really limits us here,
> designing one from scratch I'd be thinking SMALL.

Maybe the iron bar response in 1 us range but look like impossible
to have a ns resolution. Maybe materials(xtals) changing optical properties
under stress quickly would be more convenient. Do you have suggestions?


> 
> K.

hamdix

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 29 14:34:26 2003
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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:28:42 +0100 (BST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?millennium?= <unamity yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Query: Propeller design ... http://www.explorecraft.com/
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xplorer!


that is a BEAUTIFUL 'Scouting Craft' you have there!

do you have photos of it from different angles,
or JPGs of illustrations, sketches of the
aeroshell design!

I think we would like to post your aeroshell
geometry at FireShips -- and link your site.

please see the concepts and 2002 pages under
the SHIPS subsection at:  http://fireships.com !!


millennium twain

http://fireships.com/electric


...




..




.

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus
For a better Internet experience
http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 29 17:55:02 2003
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From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Query: Propeller design 
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:10:26 -0400
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Hi X.

It looks rather a bit like the flying sub from
that old TV show "Voyage to the bottom of the sea".

http://www.vttbots.com/fs1_photos.html
http://www.vttbots.com/flying_sub_links.html

It must have been fun to build.

K.

-----Original Message-----
From: xplorer [mailto:xplorer indo.net.id]
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 12:11 PM
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Query: Propeller design



Hi guys.

Just a success story of sorts -


After revision of the Blue Diamond to the point where it is operational,
 propeller design was in order.

The design of the propeller was constrained to the size of the ductwork,
 meaning we had to achieve thrust using a prop merely 75 cm in diameter.

After 12 experimental props using conventional designs,
 I found that the propwash was almost always turbulent and radial.

Lacking satisfactory thrust, I began to address the issues:
 1) due to the small area to work with (75 cm dia)
     and the target thrust (1200 N), the prop needed to be multiblade
     to the point where each individual blade would not be overloaded.
    "Solidity" of the prop, exacerbated by multiple blades,
      detracts from efficiency (due to extra drag)
    This put an upper limit on the number of blades - I settled on 8.
 2) As this is all 'home built', I knew that whatever I could get built
     would never be as reliable as a professional 'propeller factory'
     could achieve. This meant I had to forgo variable pitch mechanisms,
     as a failure at high RPM is an explosion - we have already seen enough
of those.
 3) As the target velocity is fairly high (47 m/s), the prop pitch
     necessarily becomes high (24 to 30 degrees).
 4) All props are 'stalled' at velocity 0 with no real air currents.
     As the high pitch of the prop contributes to this,
      the rotational energy is higher than the thrust energy at start.

I built 10 standard propellers, and began to regret postponing the
 exit stator to recover swirl energy (still planned, not yet implemented).
Along with this I noted that conventional design had no mechanism for
 minimizing the 'slinging' of air off the prop ends.

In November, I hatched an idea to sweep the propeller blades forward,
 leaning them into the direction of rotation in order to 'scoop' air
 away from the prop tips.
After a couple of explosive tests with GRP models,
 I made a carbon-glass-epoxy unit which succesfully demonstrated higher
thrust than
  the conventional blade designs. I am now constructing a second unit
 with better balance (the first one ran to 2400 rpm, but loosened the drive
mounts).

Looking over the web, I see only one reference to forward swept prop design,
 this posted in January on AIAA
http://apollo.eng.miami.edu/~cfdlab/aiaa_propeller2003.pdf

It appears I have something of value to someone, but I am not sure
 who would be interested in the design and test notes.

I have never performed a design patent, as I don't really feel patents are
of any use.

Any ideas, anyone ?

You can see pictures at http://www.explorecraft.com/ if anyone's interested.

cheers



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Very high torque, 'low speed' motors using a sophisticated variable =
reluctance design -- itself a very old approach -- have been used for =
many years in the Adept robots and in other specialized applications. =
They require specialized drive circuits and semiconductors capable of =
switching high currents through magnets. Putting the motor inside the =
wheel isn't that novel either, for I think that many of the electric =
vehicle designs in the US do something very similar in building =
induction motors into the wheels. In that case, specialized electronic =
design is necessary to make it all feasible.

Mike Carrell
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Jones Beene=20
  To: vortex=20
  Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 11:28 AM
  Subject: Wavecrest Hub Motor


  The environmentally-acceptable electric car of the future will require =
a lot of totally new technology=20
  <snip>
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"><BASE=20
href=3D"file://C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft =
Shared\Stationery\">
<STYLE>BODY {
	BACKGROUND-POSITION: left top; MARGIN-TOP: 25px; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; =
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<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Very high torque, 'low =
speed' motors=20
using a sophisticated variable reluctance design -- itself a very old =
approach=20
-- have been used for many years in the Adept robots and in other =
specialized=20
applications. They require specialized drive circuits and semiconductors =
capable=20
of switching high currents through magnets. Putting the motor inside the =
wheel=20
isn't that novel either, for I think that many of the electric vehicle =
designs=20
in the US do something very similar in building induction motors into =
the=20
wheels. In that case, specialized electronic design is necessary to make =
it all=20
feasible.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D4>Mike Carrell</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Djonesb9 pacbell.net =
href=3D"mailto:jonesb9 pacbell.net">Jones Beene</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dvortex-l eskimo.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:vortex-l eskimo.com">vortex</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 29, 2003 =
11:28=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Wavecrest Hub =
Motor</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>The environmentally-acceptable electric car of the future will =
require a=20
  lot of totally new technology </DIV>
  <DIV>&lt;snip&gt;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 29 18:48:24 2003
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About time. 

PFOS was what 3M used in "ScotchGard" for carpets etc., up until it was
taken off the market in 2001. Du Pont "Stainmaster" carpeting is also suspect

http://64.177.90.157/science/html/pfos_pfoa.html


http://www.ewg.org/reports/pfcworld/part1.php

Fred

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From: "xplorer" <xplorer indo.net.id>
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Gee, took a look at that, and I must admit the thing was probably
 loitering in my subconcious, influencing my design.
 That was definitely a cool concept...


Design is not final yet, I discovered an interesting item about
 airscoops, which I hope to rectify over the next few days;
 As the intake is forward of the center of laterally submerged displacement
  when operated at low velocity, the thing turns into the wind when
  it is idling, or when it has 'lost traction'.
  I have worked out we need to lop of the sides of the scoop to
   move the effective intake back a bit, so that the intake doesn't
   pivot the craft due to wind.
 It acts on a moving field of air much the same manner as a magnet does:
   the intake is low pressure seeking a high pressure source,
    the exhaust produces high pressure seeking regions of low pressure.
 Unnerving, the first time I experienced this.

It has been fun, but an enormous amout of frustration
 as I have had to teach myself (the expensive way) quite a bit
 about things I never studied before such as composites design and
aerodynamics.
 There are people for whom this would have been a simple three-month
exercise,
 but the education has been worth it - I hope.

next move - replace the 75 Kw ICE gasoline power with a 1.2 Mw CF drive.
The basics are already built - and I have just solved one of the two
remaining
 problems holding up that portion of the project.

That's next week, I hope.
After that I will be in the market for a spacesuit.

cheers

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Keith Nagel [mailto:knagel gis.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, 2003 April 30 06:10
> To: vortex-l eskimo.com
> Subject: RE: Query: Propeller design
>
>
> Hi X.
>
> It looks rather a bit like the flying sub from
> that old TV show "Voyage to the bottom of the sea".
>
> http://www.vttbots.com/fs1_photos.html
> http://www.vttbots.com/flying_sub_links.html
>
> It must have been fun to build.
>
> K.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 30 08:31:58 2003
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See:

http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,58678,00.html

I may pull out of SETI home for a while to contribute to this.

- Jed


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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?millennium?= <unamity yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Antigravity] magnetic whorls and antigravity explained ...
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...


re: magnetic whorls ... and gravity

yes!  see the illustrations from metric relativity

 http://freespeech.org/rapture/scarlet
 http://freespeech.org/rapture/proton
 http://freespeech.org/rapture/proof

for example.

aether waves, and lightwaves, propagate as
coils (slow-to-fast expanding radii & wavelength) ...

for the long-lasting EM wave, quantized light,
the magnetic vector is approximately pointed
in the direction of propagation, but slightly
WHIRLING around it ... while the electric
vector is transverse to the diection of
propagation, and whirling around the magnetic
vector.

in the case of the short-lasting EM wave, non-
quantized aether wave, the magnetic vector has
a greater, and increasing, WHORL -- as it
increases its angle away from the propagation
direction of the wave -- and as the wavelength
of the wave rapidly increases, and the intensity
rapidly decreases.

the 'electromagnetic' aether is no longer unseen ...
it is simple to picture and understand ... and
is ten-to-the-90th-power more accurate than
'Stochastical ElectroDynamics' or the bad math
of the 'Torsion Field' physicists.

the cosmos is only as complex as creation ...

integrity, beauty!



millennium

gravity and antigravity are aether waves --
the electromagnetic component being the largest
wavelength of the pressure GROUP wave ...

the aether waves establish nodes ... as in
where the planets sit in the aether waves
of the Solar System ...

the wavelength, spacing, of the nodes is
determined by the density of the media ...

viz. a dirt or asphault road, and the ruts that
develop in it -- the ruts are not determined by the
velocity of the cars driving over it, but by
the density of the dirt or asphault ...

a human on the surface of the earth has the
density of water ... so is pressed down from
the air above ... but pressed up from water
below ... if swimming in the ocean for example ...

no photons, no gravitons ...


...


now in our 26th day of global fasting
for world peace ...

http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/worldfast

...

satyagraha -- fasting protest ...

Gandhi named this concept of action: "satyagraha"
(combining the Hindu words for "truth"
and "holding firmly.")

..




.


__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus
For a better Internet experience
http://www.yahoo.co.uk/btoffer

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 30 11:09:52 2003
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The program download screen is here:

http://www.d2ol.com/the_agent.html

Look on the top right side.

This program is interesting to watch. It simulates fitting simple molecules 
(drugs) into complex targets such as the toxic agents of anthrax or SARS. 
When a drug binds to certain sites, it disables the toxic molecule in 
various ways, such as preventing the large molecule from attaching to or 
penetrating a cell.

It searches for the lowest "final docked energy." That is to say, the 
easiest fit; the most likely outcome from randomly mixing the small and 
large molecules together. The program iterates hundreds of thousands or 
millions of times for each candidate molecule, taking about 10 minutes per 
candidate on a 0.9MHz Pentium III. This is a sort of world-wide brute force 
search for the best candidate molecules.

It is a shame you cannot model CF like this.

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 30 11:42:29 2003
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Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:22:51 -0400
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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell mindspring.com>
Subject: Uploaded 4 tritium papers to LENR-CANR
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I uploaded four papers about tritium from ICCF-2, by Will, Claytor, Lanza 
and Bertalot. Actually, the latter is a non-tritium paper, describing 
experiments at ENEA and Texas A&M that did not find tritium, although one 
produced 57 kilojoules of excess heat. It illustrates the difficulty of 
looking for tritium. The LENR-CANR Library has other, more recent papers by 
Will and Claytor with better results. Readers may be interested to see the 
evolution of their work. Claytor is sending me additional papers.

Total downloads today stand at 79,973. The growth in traffic seems to be 
accelerating since April 1. From October to April the number of downloads 
increased by 3.3 per day. Now it seems to be increasing by 15 to 20 per day.

In other news, yesterday at 5:00 a.m. Atlanta recorded the worst earthquake 
in its history, 4.9 on the Richter scale at the epicenter in Alabama. It 
sure surprised me! The Atlanta Journal headline was, "Georgians are shaken, 
but not stirred by earthquake."

Elsewhere, in Japan it was Green Day on Tuesday. Politicians were green 
feathers in their lapels. I gather this indicates a celebration of nature. 
Citizens everywhere went out and communed with nature. One guy standing 
below a cliff was killed by a falling rock. Another while strolling through 
the woods was bitten on the leg by a bear. His companion whacked the bear 
with a cane and drove it off. Authorities seek the bear for questioning.

The Japanese newspapers report that the Iraqi spokesman & world-class flack 
Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf has surfaced and offered to turn himself in to the 
American authorities, but the Americans told him he isn't important enough 
to bother with.

- Jed


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 30 17:17:58 2003
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Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 03:17:54 +0300
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Hi,

I found an interesting paper titled "Dipole in a gravitational field" by Vesselin Petkov
Physics Department, Concordia University.

alcor.concordia.ca/~vpetkov/papers/dipole.pdf 

Abstract:
This is a draft which contains the calculations of the self-force acting
on a dipole in a gravitational field. The case of a horizontally placed
dipole is considered in the paper ”Propulsion Through Electromagnetic 
Self-Sustained Acceleration” (physics/9906059).

There is a reference to a paper of same author ”Acceleration-dependent electromagnetic
self-interaction eects as a basis for inertia and gravitation” (physics/9909019).


---------------

I recall that Vesselin Petkov was on "ForfeFieldpropulsion..." Yahoo discussion group and he was proved wrong somewhere. Anyway if an accelerated dipole have different properties than one at rest, using a reverse logic it may possible to accelerate a dipole satisfying electrically its accelerated conditions. (Did I said something meaningful? :)

hamdi ucar