From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 1 01:39:04 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k119cZiX015786; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 01:38:36 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k119cXqW015759; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 01:38:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 01:38:33 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060201014036.0292c378@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 01:41:29 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: update on iesi story Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <3ETCE.A.I2D.YGI4DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66167 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: http://newenergytimes.com/SR/IESI.htm From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 1 05:46:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k11DkDW4030906; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 05:46:13 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k11DkBRQ030890; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 05:46:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 05:46:11 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <001201c62735$d5ce60e0$640fa8c0@MIKEBY3NR533HT> From: "Mike Carrell" To: References: <43E02B6F.3030502@comcast.net> Subject: Re: Lightweight Ultraconducting Energy Storage Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 08:30:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66168 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Fickle" Subject: Re: Lightweight Ultraconducting Energy Storage > True, lightweight high-strength containment materials may make such a > system practical, although they tend to be expensive. But there's no need > to wait. Both mechanical flywheels and compressed-air energy storage > share the same characteristics in this regard: stored energy scales > directly with the strength and size (and thus mass) of the container. > Both will have the same energy capacity as a superconducting storage > system; so why wait for ultraconductors? If Kevlar is practical, go > ahead and build flywheels into electric cars! I once heard a talk by Bitter, one of the leading proponents of flywheel storage. The energy storage is very much a function of the spped of the flywheel and limited by its bursting strength. Kevlar filament wound wheels are good candidates, but significant gains would be realized if carbon fiber could be realized. Carbon fiber nanotubes are ideal candidates, but like Mark Golde's superconductors, they are short and the way to make long filaments is elusive. Flywheel systems are complex devices, requiring magnetically suspended rotors spinning in a vacuum and complex support systems to get energy in and out of the rotors. Containment systems are necessary in case of bursts, although filament wheels shred rather than emitting scrapnel. Wheels are gyroscopes, which add to the problems when you wnat to go around corners. An ultraconductor system is solid state and if it can be made to work at room temperature, could be quite attractive. Mike Carrell > > Mark Goldes wrote: > >> Los Alamos National Laboratory patented a lightweight containment system >> using Kevlar. While the Patent was in force, our firm had rights for use >> with our polymers. Now that their Patent has expired we still expect to >> use that lightweight system of containment for UMES electron flywheels. >> >> Carbon fiber may prove to be an even better alternative and we are >> watching wire development progress with that extremely light material >> many times stronger than steel. >> >> Mark >> >> >>> From: Bob Fickle >>> Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com >>> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com >>> Subject: Re: Room Temperature Superconductors and EVs >>> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 21:50:05 -0600 >>> >>> Much as I'd like to have some ultraconductor wire to play with, I'm not >>> convinced that Ultrqaconducting Magnetic Energy Storage will replace >>> batteries. Magnetic fields create a pressure equal to the energy >>> density- and therefore require a strong (read "heavy" and "expensive") >>> mechanical container. >>> >>> Mark Goldes wrote: >>> >>>> Harry, >>>> >>>> They can be made, but not yet in wire form. >>>> >>>> Thin films containing Ultraconductors 1 or 2 microns in diameter >>>> (1/50th the diameter of a human hair) can always carry 50 Amperes. The >>>> Ultraconductors run through the film in the thin direction, (i.e. >>>> normal to the film). >>>> >>>> Wire is 3 years and $18 million in front of us. >>>> >>>> Once available as wire, electron flywheels can begin to replace >>>> batteries. Ultraconducting Magnetic Energy Storage systems are >>>> expected to prove practical. >>>> >>>> Electric motors made with Ultraconducting wire can be much smaller and >>>> lighter, and may require no iron. Alll plastic motors may therefore >>>> prove practical. Superconducting motors require no iron. We suspect >>>> the same will be true of Ultraconductors. >>>> >>>> Mark >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> From: Harry Veeder >>>>> Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com >>>>> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com >>>>> Subject: Re: Who Killed the EV? >>>>> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 18:29:14 -0500 >>>>> >>>>> If room temperature superconductors can be made they would also >>>>> boost the performance of electric vehicles. >>>>> If I remember correctly, a Time magazine cover from around '86 or '87 >>>>> showed an artist's rendering of a futuristic electric vehicle as one >>>>> of the >>>>> promises of high temperature superconductors. >>>>> >>>>> Harry >>>>> >>>>> hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote: >>>>> >>>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>>> > From: Harry Veeder >>>>> > >>>>> > Do they mean the braking system did not use friction? >>>>> > >>>>> > <><><><><><><> >>>>> > >>>>> > It used both: disc in front, electric in rear. Here are the EV-1 >>>>> specs: >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> http://www.evchargernews.com/CD-A/gm_ev1_web_site/specs/specs_specs_top.h >>>>> >>>>> > tm >>>>> > >>>>> > or >>>>> > >>>>> > http://tinyurl.com/ckaju >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > ___________________________________________________ >>>>> > Try the New Netscape Mail Today! >>>>> > Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List >>>>> > http://mail.netscape.com >>>>> > >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This Email has been scanned for all viruses by Medford Leas I.T. > Department. > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 1 06:32:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k11EWA9g023997; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 06:32:10 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k11EW58E023923; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 06:32:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 06:32:05 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <001b01c6273c$408496b0$15027841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060131232727.0294ee48@mail.newenergytimes.com> Subject: Re: iesi Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 08:31:55 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2005-06-05) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.8 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66169 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Steven, Good reporting and followup. I remain concerned about certain Canadian and US public offerings. Some are unfolding, some have unfolded and some are awaiting. Of great concern is Barrick Gold and it's near sudden emerging as the world's largest gold firm according to their estimates of unmined gold reserves. Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Krivit" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 1:27 AM Subject: iesi > http://diyduediligence.blogspot.com > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 1 07:12:31 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k11FCAdB012544; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 07:12:11 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k11FC74g012505; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 07:12:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 07:12:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <002001c6273d$a82d57b0$15027841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: References: <43E02B6F.3030502@comcast.net> <001201c62735$d5ce60e0$640fa8c0@MIKEBY3NR533HT> Subject: Re: Lightweight Ultraconducting Energy Storage Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 08:41:58 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2005-06-05) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.8 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, USER_IN_WHITELIST,WHY_WAIT autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66170 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Mike, There was a west coast firm ( US Flywheel ??) working on high speed mechanical flywheels some 20 years ago. Such a device would need to oeprate above 750,000 rpm and preferably above 1.25 mil rpm to sustain and store sufficent energy. You can easily recognoze the inheent engineering problems with materials without considering how to induce speed and convert recovered energy under this scenario. Electron flywheels may allow solutions unavailable with mechanical flywheels. I would love to have them for our shop battery operated tools. Talk about available torque.. wow!. Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Carrell" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:30 AM Subject: Re: Lightweight Ultraconducting Energy Storage > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Fickle" > Subject: Re: Lightweight Ultraconducting Energy Storage > > >> True, lightweight high-strength containment materials may make such a >> system practical, although they tend to be expensive. But there's no >> need to wait. Both mechanical flywheels and compressed-air energy >> storage share the same characteristics in this regard: stored energy >> scales directly with the strength and size (and thus mass) of the >> container. Both will have the same energy capacity as a superconducting >> storage system; so why wait for ultraconductors? If Kevlar is >> practical, go ahead and build flywheels into electric cars! > > I once heard a talk by Bitter, one of the leading proponents of flywheel > storage. The energy storage is very much a function of the spped of the > flywheel and limited by its bursting strength. Kevlar filament wound > wheels are good candidates, but significant gains would be realized if > carbon fiber could be realized. Carbon fiber nanotubes are ideal > candidates, but like Mark Golde's superconductors, they are short and the > way to make long filaments is elusive. > > Flywheel systems are complex devices, requiring magnetically suspended > rotors spinning in a vacuum and complex support systems to get energy in > and out of the rotors. Containment systems are necessary in case of > bursts, although filament wheels shred rather than emitting scrapnel. > Wheels are gyroscopes, which add to the problems when you wnat to go > around corners. > > An ultraconductor system is solid state and if it can be made to work at > room temperature, could be quite attractive. > > Mike Carrell > > >> >> Mark Goldes wrote: >> >>> Los Alamos National Laboratory patented a lightweight containment system >>> using Kevlar. While the Patent was in force, our firm had rights for >>> use with our polymers. Now that their Patent has expired we still >>> expect to use that lightweight system of containment for UMES electron >>> flywheels. >>> >>> Carbon fiber may prove to be an even better alternative and we are >>> watching wire development progress with that extremely light material >>> many times stronger than steel. >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> >>>> From: Bob Fickle >>>> Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com >>>> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com >>>> Subject: Re: Room Temperature Superconductors and EVs >>>> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 21:50:05 -0600 >>>> >>>> Much as I'd like to have some ultraconductor wire to play with, I'm not >>>> convinced that Ultrqaconducting Magnetic Energy Storage will replace >>>> batteries. Magnetic fields create a pressure equal to the energy >>>> density- and therefore require a strong (read "heavy" and "expensive") >>>> mechanical container. >>>> >>>> Mark Goldes wrote: >>>> >>>>> Harry, >>>>> >>>>> They can be made, but not yet in wire form. >>>>> >>>>> Thin films containing Ultraconductors 1 or 2 microns in diameter >>>>> (1/50th the diameter of a human hair) can always carry 50 Amperes. >>>>> The Ultraconductors run through the film in the thin direction, (i.e. >>>>> normal to the film). >>>>> >>>>> Wire is 3 years and $18 million in front of us. >>>>> >>>>> Once available as wire, electron flywheels can begin to replace >>>>> batteries. Ultraconducting Magnetic Energy Storage systems are >>>>> expected to prove practical. >>>>> >>>>> Electric motors made with Ultraconducting wire can be much smaller and >>>>> lighter, and may require no iron. Alll plastic motors may therefore >>>>> prove practical. Superconducting motors require no iron. We suspect >>>>> the same will be true of Ultraconductors. >>>>> >>>>> Mark >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> From: Harry Veeder >>>>>> Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com >>>>>> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com >>>>>> Subject: Re: Who Killed the EV? >>>>>> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 18:29:14 -0500 >>>>>> >>>>>> If room temperature superconductors can be made they would also >>>>>> boost the performance of electric vehicles. >>>>>> If I remember correctly, a Time magazine cover from around '86 or '87 >>>>>> showed an artist's rendering of a futuristic electric vehicle as one >>>>>> of the >>>>>> promises of high temperature superconductors. >>>>>> >>>>>> Harry >>>>>> >>>>>> hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>>>> > From: Harry Veeder >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Do they mean the braking system did not use friction? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > <><><><><><><> >>>>>> > >>>>>> > It used both: disc in front, electric in rear. Here are the EV-1 >>>>>> specs: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://www.evchargernews.com/CD-A/gm_ev1_web_site/specs/specs_specs_top.h >>>>>> >>>>>> > tm >>>>>> > >>>>>> > or >>>>>> > >>>>>> > http://tinyurl.com/ckaju >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > ___________________________________________________ >>>>>> > Try the New Netscape Mail Today! >>>>>> > Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List >>>>>> > http://mail.netscape.com >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> This Email has been scanned for all viruses by Medford Leas I.T. >> Department. >> >> > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 1 10:02:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k11I2mTk012369; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 10:02:48 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k11I2ff2012323; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 10:02:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 10:02:41 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Ambient Gravimagnetic Field and the Earth Field Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 08:59:41 -0900 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66171 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The subject article has been checked for arithmetic errors and the title changed to "The Ambient Gravimagnetic Field". It is located at: Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 1 11:54:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k11JsirP003982; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 11:54:44 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k11Jsf66003952; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 11:54:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 11:54:41 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: temalloy@mail.usfamily.net Message-Id: Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 13:54:48 -0600 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: thomas malloy Subject: Alien Hunter Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66172 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This man was interviewed last night on C to C AM. His title sums up what he does. He mentioned that they are lyres. There are many details, including pictures of the implants on his website, www.alienhunter.org --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 1 12:23:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k11KNFNU018155; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 12:23:15 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k11KNEV1018137; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 12:23:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 12:23:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 14:20:40 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: Ambient Gravimagnetic Field and the Earth Field In-reply-to: <845D9A09-7A89-4CD3-B3B7-8CE5832C72AD@mtaonline.net> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66173 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > > On Jan 30, 2006, at 7:19 PM, Harry Veeder wrote: > >> I wonder if there is a connection between Gravimagnetism and >> dowsing and ley >> lines... > > I'm clueless on that one. > > Horace Heffner > Could Gravimagnetism be involved in the precession of the perihelion of planet mercury? http://phyun5.ucr.edu/~wudka/Physics7/Notes_www/node98.html Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 1 12:30:53 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k11KUdaG021804; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 12:30:40 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k11KUaGm021774; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 12:30:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 12:30:36 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: "John Steck" To: Subject: RE: Are Big Oil Conspiracies Really Off-Base? Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 14:30:31 -0600 Message-ID: <000001c6276e$59b3a8b0$5c5e10ac@eDentsply.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6273C.0F1938B0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <024501c6261a$2737eea0$a4b1e118@D54BYG11> Resent-Message-ID: <081YpB.A.AUF.rpR4DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66174 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6273C.0F1938B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable $36.13 billion total profit for 2005, highest of all time.... second = highest of all time? Exxon again with $25.3 billion in 2004. =20 Good for them, hopefully this unabashed greed pushes the complacent out = of their easy chairs and gives viable alternative sources a much needed foothold. Essentially, we need a Linux revolution in the energy sector. Copyleft! =20 -j =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: John Coviello [mailto:johnwc@patmedia.net]=20 Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 9:55 PM To: Vortex Subject: Are Big Oil Conspiracies Really Off-Base? ExxonMobil just reported record quarterly profits, over $10 Billion just this quarter. Has there ever been a business in the history of mankind = that has even come close to the profits that the oil business has enjoyed, especially in recent years? Does anyone really need a further = explanation for why the U.S. government lavishes the oil industry with approximately = $100 Billion in military protection each year and gives energy = conservation and alternative energy so little attention and funding? Oil is king of = the economic world. The U.S. government knows the deal with peak oil, probably better than anyone. It is the main reason we are in Iraq at the moment. Oil plays = the central role of our foreign policy, especially since Communism fell. Remember how Dick Chenney said in 2001 that energy efficiency did not matter? I just saw him last week explaining on network television that = the=20 reason our economy is not in recession due to the current high oil = prices is because we use oil twice as efficiently as we did in 1980 when we had a serious economic recession due to oil. Talk about speaking out of both sides of your mouth. Slick Dick! For those out there who belittle big oil conspiracy theories as = poppycock, I suggest you investigate the diamond trade. Diamonds would be = essentially worthless if they were allowed to trade freely. I was surprised to = learn this myself a few years ago. Yes, there is actually an international = cartel that tightly controls the diamond supply to ensure that diamonds remain = a=20 valuable commodity. A company called DeBeers actually has warehouses = full of diamonds in Europe, keeping millions of stones off the market, to = ensure they remain scarce and valuable. 60 Minutes did a story on this fact a = few years ago. Not only do they keep diamonds embargoed, they also are = heavily involved in the mining trade and control the production side as well. Well, if such far flung efforts have been carried out successfully for decades to ensure diamonds remain valuable, why is it so hard to believe that there are also powerful forces that manipulate energy markets. = Energy is the most valuable commodity known to man at the moment, and oil is = the prime energy commodity. Their is ample reason to manipulate the price = of=20 oil. I believe we see this manipulation every year as the U.S. = government routinely spends $100 Billion or more to ensure the free flow of oil, = also ensuring huge profits for the ExxonMobils of the world, and having the side-effect of retarding alternative energy competitiors who have to = compete against a subsidized commodity like oil. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6273C.0F1938B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
$36.13 billion total=20 profit for 2005, highest of = all=20 time.... second highest of all time?  Exxon again = with $25.3=20 billion in 2004.
 
Good for them, = hopefully=20 this unabashed greed pushes the complacent out of their easy chairs = and=20 gives viable alternative sources a much needed foothold.  = Essentially, we=20 need a Linux revolution in the energy sector. =20 Copyleft!
 
-j
 
 
 -----Original = Message-----
From:=20 John Coviello [mailto:johnwc@patmedia.net]
Sent: Monday, = January 30,=20 2006 9:55 PM
To: Vortex
Subject: Are Big Oil = Conspiracies=20 Really Off-Base?

ExxonMobil just=20 reported record quarterly profits, over $10 Billion just this = quarter.  Has=20 there ever been a business in the history of mankind that has even come = close to=20 the profits that the oil business has enjoyed, especially in recent = years? =20 Does anyone really need a further explanation for why the U.S. = government=20 lavishes the oil industry with approximately
$100 Billion in = military=20 protection each year and gives energy conservation and alternative = energy so=20 little attention and funding?  Oil is king of the economic=20 world.

The U.S. government knows the deal with peak oil, probably = better=20 than anyone.  It is the main reason we are in Iraq at the=20 moment.  Oil plays the central role of our foreign policy, = especially=20 since Communism fell.  Remember how Dick Chenney said in 2001 that = energy=20 efficiency did not matter?  I just saw him last week = explaining on=20 network television that the
reason our economy is not in recession = due to=20 the current high oil prices is because we use oil twice as = efficiently as=20 we did in 1980 when we had a serious economic recession due to = oil.  Talk=20 about speaking out of both sides of your mouth.  Slick = Dick!

For=20 those out there who belittle big oil conspiracy theories as poppycock, I = suggest=20 you investigate the diamond trade.  Diamonds would be essentially = worthless=20 if they were allowed to trade freely.  I was surprised to learn = this myself=20 a few years ago.  Yes, there is actually an international cartel = that=20 tightly controls the diamond supply to ensure that diamonds remain a=20
valuable commodity.  A company called DeBeers actually has = warehouses=20 full of diamonds in Europe, keeping millions of stones off the market, = to ensure=20 they remain scarce and valuable.  60 Minutes did a story on this = fact a few=20 years ago.  Not only do they keep diamonds embargoed, they also are = heavily=20 involved in the mining trade and control the production side as=20 well.

Well, if such far flung efforts have been carried out = successfully=20 for decades to ensure diamonds remain valuable, why is it so hard = to=20 believe that there are also powerful forces that manipulate energy=20 markets.  Energy is the most valuable commodity known to man at the = moment,=20 and oil is the prime energy commodity.  Their is ample reason to = manipulate=20 the price of
oil.  I believe we see this manipulation every = year as the=20 U.S. government routinely spends $100 Billion or more to ensure the free = flow of=20 oil, also ensuring huge profits for the ExxonMobils of the world, and = having the=20 side-effect of retarding alternative energy competitiors who have to = compete=20 against a subsidized commodity like=20 oil.

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6273C.0F1938B0-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 1 12:53:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k11Kk8bW030993; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 12:46:09 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k11Kk0Nd030874; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 12:46:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 12:46:00 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=o+CcZIK3IpS/ACNqFEjgV24PNlWxY5pBVz4dI5XCMF0oCZq3iv4agAB+2bv3GavfqAuZHI8FP3LxSp5swuMspzOgCuNgHPxTw1vzsSL1gUIzj9ssmoa3IIvoLRhwbXVws9SCHSwDSGpHkC7WQNuy2PCm/NcZSMZ8aOHJ+1Kx0KA= ; Message-ID: <20060201204549.50492.qmail@web32213.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 12:45:49 -0800 (PST) From: Merlyn Subject: Electron Flywheels and Turbines To: vortex-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <002001c6273d$a82d57b0$15027841@xptower> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66175 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: The discussion of electron flywheels (UMES) has brought to mind a concept I had for an electron turbine. (warning! ASCII art follows) A series of saw-toothed rings with a collection surface on one side, set to rotate in opposing directions. -- Negative Terminal ///////////////////// Stationary Sawtooth --------------------- \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ CW Ring --------------------- ///////////////////// CCW Ring --------------------- \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ CW Ring --------------------- Stationary Collector Plate ++ Positive Terminal A charge imbalance existing between the input and output sides (negative and positive terminals resp.) would cause a flow of electrons through the turbine. An electron has a mass of 9.1095 x 10^-31 kg 1 Amp = 6.2415 x 10^18 electrons/sec. 1 Amp = 5.685 x 10^-12 kg/sec Electron velocity in a vacuum is governed by voltage AFAIK, and is approx. 6000 km/sec at 100 V. If the electrons travel at 45 degrees to the axis, reversing their direction should impart 5.296 x 10^-23 kg.m/sec momentum per electron, or 4.824 x 10^-4 kg.m/sec momentum per amp. So force exerted on the armature by 1A @ 100V should be 4.824 x 10^-4 N Unless I've misplaced some factors this looks completely impractical now that I've done the calculations. Ce La Vie Merlyn Magickal Engineer and Technical Metaphysicist __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 1 13:32:46 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k11LWUMO020862; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 13:32:31 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k11LWQIV020834; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 13:32:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 13:32:26 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C62776.F95A7530" Subject: RE: Are Big Oil Conspiracies Really Off-Base? Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 15:32:16 -0600 Message-ID: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B00963F@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Are Big Oil Conspiracies Really Off-Base? Thread-Index: AcYnbnS7vj0KQxRqS/28QpDflxhGsgABRIAg From: "Zell, Chris" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Feb 2006 21:32:17.0407 (UTC) FILETIME=[F99CE0F0:01C62776] Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66176 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C62776.F95A7530 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Are Big-Oil Conspiracies off base? =20 YES! If any of you really think that oil companies are outrageously profitable, YOU ARE FREE TO BUY THEIR STOCK and share in the profits accordingly. I don't, because I find them too risky. =20 Since 1977, government tax revenues on oil have been twice what oil company profits have been. If every successful company becomes a target for Congressional Thieves, then let's steal some of that $25-40 billion that Microsoft is holding - or tax the unwarranted rise in Google stock value. =20 Better yet, the recent rise in your home's value is clearly a "windfall" - let's have a special tax on that. =20 Oil is extremely risky since, if you invest enormous amounts of money and work to develop fields, some third world dictator will nationalize the property or demand new concessions, destroying your intended projections. Or your best workers get kidnapped by local insurgents - Or you can't find any skilled petroleum engineers that aren't ready for retirement.- Or you put $60 a barrel oil in storage while the Saudis decide to move the price down to $40 a barrel. ( all real, reported issues) =20 And refineries? A refinery is almost impossible to build due to NIMBYism. Barron's ran an article on this months ago. If we aren't careful, NIMBYism will kill off windmills, too. =20 Oil has been cheap for a long time, particularily because the swing producers, the Saudis, have kept it that way to prevent alternative development and the US public has little stomach for sacrifice. =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C62776.F95A7530 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
 
Are=20 Big-Oil Conspiracies off base?
 
YES!
If any=20 of you really think that oil companies are outrageously profitable, YOU = ARE FREE=20 TO BUY THEIR STOCK and share in the profits
accordingly.  I don't, because I find them too=20 risky.
 
Since=20 1977, government tax revenues on oil have been twice what oil company = profits=20 have been.  If every successful company becomes a=20 target
for=20 Congressional Thieves, then let's steal some of that $25-40 billion that = Microsoft is holding - or tax the unwarranted rise in Google stock=20 value.
 
Better=20 yet,  the recent rise in your home's value is clearly a=20 "windfall"  - let's have a special tax on that.
 
Oil is=20 extremely risky since, if you invest enormous amounts of money and work = to=20 develop fields, some third world dictator will nationalize the=20 property
or=20 demand new concessions, destroying your intended projections.  Or = your best=20 workers get kidnapped by local insurgents - Or you can't find=20 any
skilled petroleum engineers that aren't ready for = retirement.-  Or=20 you put $60 a barrel oil in storage while the Saudis decide to move the = price=20 down
to $40=20 a barrel. ( all real, reported issues)
 
And=20 refineries?  A refinery is almost impossible to build due to=20 NIMBYism.  Barron's ran an article on this months ago.  If we = aren't=20 careful,
NIMBYism will kill off windmills, too.
 
  Oil has been cheap for a = long time,=20 particularily because the swing producers, the Saudis, have kept it that = way to=20 prevent alternative development
and=20 the US public has little stomach for sacrifice.   =
 
 
 
 
------_=_NextPart_001_01C62776.F95A7530-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 1 14:38:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k11McHsX023754; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 14:38:17 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k11Mc93d023674; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 14:38:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 14:38:09 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.2.20060201155113.034e8ca0@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 16:08:48 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: RE: Are Big Oil Conspiracies Really Off-Base? In-Reply-To: <000001c6276e$59b3a8b0$5c5e10ac@eDentsply.com> References: <024501c6261a$2737eea0$a4b1e118@D54BYG11> <000001c6276e$59b3a8b0$5c5e10ac@eDentsply.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66177 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Steck wrote: >$36.13 billion total profit for 2005, highest of all time.... second >highest of all time? Exxon again with $25.3 billion in 2004. Kenneth Deffeyes pointed out that part of the reason oil companies are making record profits is because they are not investing in new refineries, tankers and other capital equipment. They are not investing because they know there is no more oil in the ground, so there is no point to expanding production capacity. In fact, in 20 years they will not even need present capacity. In other words, they are dismantling their own industry by attrition. Why build a new sawmill when you are on the verge of cutting down the last tree? When a company is in the midst of liquidating its assets, it has a lot of cash on hand, but that is not a sign of good corporate health. In my book, I predicted they would dismantle by attrition after cold fusion makes it obvious will soon go out of business. I did not realize they already knew their days are numbered. I thought they were ignoring Deffeyes. If they had any sense they would be investing in other energy sources, such as wind and cold fusion, but companies on the verge of extinction seldom have any sense. They are doing and says exactly what I would expect, based on the history of other companies in their predicament. See: http://blog.wired.com/cars/ ExxonMobil's Future Lacks Alternatives ExxonMobil also has no interest in solar or wind energy. [ExxonMobile statement:] "In our view, current renewable technologies do not offer near-term promise for profitable investment relative to attractive opportunities that we see in our core business. Therefore, we have chosen not to pursue investments in renewable energy options." Translation: We have no clue what to do with our money. We cannot imagine a future without oil, even though we see it is coming. We do not want to think about anything beyond 'short term' next-quarter strategies. The only conspiracy I see here is a silent and unconscious conspiracy by oil companies to destroy themselves. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 1 14:49:00 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k11MmlZg030411; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 14:48:48 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k11MmiHX030365; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 14:48:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 14:48:44 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <02f101c62781$746ad260$a4b1e118@D54BYG11> Reply-To: "John Coviello" From: "John Coviello" To: References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060131232727.0294ee48@mail.newenergytimes.com> Subject: Re: iesi Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 17:46:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-From: johnwc@patmedia.net Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66178 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Nicely done Steve. I like the levelheaded approach towards iESi. Very informative. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Krivit" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 2:27 AM Subject: iesi > http://diyduediligence.blogspot.com > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 1 14:55:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k11Msl9B001806; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 14:54:48 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k11MsiBn001763; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 14:54:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 14:54:44 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <02f701c62782$4b970ce0$a4b1e118@D54BYG11> Reply-To: "John Coviello" From: "John Coviello" To: References: <024501c6261a$2737eea0$a4b1e118@D54BYG11> <000001c6276e$59b3a8b0$5c5e10ac@eDentsply.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060201155113.034e8ca0@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Are Big Oil Conspiracies Really Off-Base? Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 17:53:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-From: johnwc@patmedia.net Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66179 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jed Rothwell" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 4:08 PM Subject: RE: Are Big Oil Conspiracies Really Off-Base? > John Steck wrote: > >>$36.13 billion total profit for 2005, highest of all time.... second >>highest of all time? Exxon again with $25.3 billion in 2004. > > Kenneth Deffeyes pointed out that part of the reason oil companies are > making record profits is because they are not investing in new refineries, > tankers and other capital equipment. They are not investing because they > know there is no more oil in the ground, so there is no point to expanding > production capacity. In fact, in 20 years they will not even need present > capacity. In other words, they are dismantling their own industry by > attrition. Why build a new sawmill when you are on the verge of cutting > down the last tree? Good point Jed. Probably one of the most obvious signs that peak oil is near, when the oil industry stops investing in expanded infrastructure and does not increase exploration dramatically in the face of a much higher price environment for their product. Why not? Because they probably know better than anyone that there is no future for oil. It could unravel even faster than many expect, because once oil reaches a certain price threshold, it will price itself right out of the marketplace and alternatives will fill the void. It's a good idea to read between the lines of all the conflicting stories surrounding peak oil and look at underlying indicators, such as rising oil prices (no better indication of the scarcity of a commodity than the price people are willing to pay for it), and as you pointed out the lack of investment in new and expanded infrastructure to process oil, it tells you something about what they are thinking. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 1 15:44:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k11NidAF027492; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 15:44:39 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k11Niaw4027455; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 15:44:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 15:44:36 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <031801c62785$f0cda360$a4b1e118@D54BYG11> Reply-To: "John Coviello" From: "John Coviello" To: References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B00963F@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> Subject: Re: Are Big Oil Conspiracies Really Off-Base? Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 18:19:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0315_01C6275C.07AB5020" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-From: johnwc@patmedia.net Resent-Message-ID: <1ppdK.A.6sG.kfU4DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66180 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0315_01C6275C.07AB5020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MessageThe way I see it, our dependence on oil is the product of one of = the most far flung social engineering projects ever undertaken. From = dismantling trolley lines in the early 20th Century to ensuring auto = efficiency standards do not put too much pressure on the demand side of = oil, to providing $10 Billions of federal monies each year to protect = oil supplies overseas militarily, the federal government has engineered = our dependence on oil and has put alternative energy technologies and = transportation modes at a marketplace disadvantage. If there was enough need for new refining facilities, they would get = built. We are now building LNG facilities, we have continued to build = power plants all over the place. New refiniers aren't being built = because the industry either doesn't want them to put more supplies on = the market and depress prices or more likely they don't see a return on = investment for a product that will price itself out of the market within = a decade or two.=20 From: Zell, Chris=20 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 4:32 PM Subject: RE: Are Big Oil Conspiracies Really Off-Base? Are Big-Oil Conspiracies off base? YES! If any of you really think that oil companies are outrageously = profitable, YOU ARE FREE TO BUY THEIR STOCK and share in the profits accordingly. I don't, because I find them too risky. Since 1977, government tax revenues on oil have been twice what oil = company profits have been. If every successful company becomes a target for Congressional Thieves, then let's steal some of that $25-40 = billion that Microsoft is holding - or tax the unwarranted rise in = Google stock value. Better yet, the recent rise in your home's value is clearly a = "windfall" - let's have a special tax on that. Oil is extremely risky since, if you invest enormous amounts of money = and work to develop fields, some third world dictator will nationalize = the property or demand new concessions, destroying your intended projections. Or = your best workers get kidnapped by local insurgents - Or you can't find = any skilled petroleum engineers that aren't ready for retirement.- Or you = put $60 a barrel oil in storage while the Saudis decide to move the = price down to $40 a barrel. ( all real, reported issues) And refineries? A refinery is almost impossible to build due to = NIMBYism. Barron's ran an article on this months ago. If we aren't = careful, NIMBYism will kill off windmills, too. Oil has been cheap for a long time, particularily because the swing = producers, the Saudis, have kept it that way to prevent alternative = development and the US public has little stomach for sacrifice. =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0315_01C6275C.07AB5020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
The way I see it, our dependence on oil is the product of one of = the most=20 far flung social engineering projects ever undertaken.  From = dismantling=20 trolley lines in the early 20th Century to ensuring auto efficiency = standards do=20 not put too much pressure on the demand side of oil, to providing=20 $10 Billions of federal monies each year to protect oil supplies=20 overseas militarily, the federal government has engineered our = dependence on oil and has put alternative energy technologies and = transportation=20 modes at a marketplace disadvantage.
 
If there was enough need for new = refining=20 facilities, they would get built.  We are now building LNG = facilities, we=20 have continued to build power plants all over the place.  New = refiniers=20 aren't being built because the industry either doesn't want them to put = more=20 supplies on the market and depress prices or more likely they don't = see a=20 return on investment for a product that will price itself out of the = market=20 within a decade or two. 
From:=20 Zell, Chris
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, = 2006 4:32=20 PM
Subject: RE: Are Big Oil = Conspiracies=20 Really Off-Base?

 
Are=20 Big-Oil Conspiracies off base?
 
YES!
If=20 any of you really think that oil companies are outrageously = profitable, YOU=20 ARE FREE TO BUY THEIR STOCK and share in the = profits
accordingly.  I don't, because I find them too=20 risky.
 
Since 1977, government tax revenues on oil have been twice = what oil=20 company profits have been.  If every successful company becomes a = target
for=20 Congressional Thieves, then let's steal some of that $25-40 billion = that=20 Microsoft is holding - or tax the unwarranted rise in Google stock=20 value.
 
Better yet,  the recent rise in your home's value = is clearly=20 a "windfall"  - let's have a special tax on = that.
 
Oil=20 is extremely risky since, if you invest enormous amounts of money and = work to=20 develop fields, some third world dictator will nationalize the=20 property
or=20 demand new concessions, destroying your intended projections.  Or = your=20 best workers get kidnapped by local insurgents - Or you can't = find=20 any
skilled petroleum engineers that aren't ready for = retirement.-  Or=20 you put $60 a barrel oil in storage while the Saudis decide to move = the price=20 down
to=20 $40 a barrel. ( all real, reported issues)
 
And=20 refineries?  A refinery is almost impossible to build due to=20 NIMBYism.  Barron's ran an article on this months ago.  If = we aren't=20 careful,
NIMBYism will kill off windmills, too.
 
  Oil has=20 been cheap for a long time, particularily because the swing producers, = the=20 Saudis, have kept it that way to prevent alternative=20 development
and=20 the US public has little stomach for sacrifice.  =20
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0315_01C6275C.07AB5020-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 1 16:53:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k120rmbu001741; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 16:53:48 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k120rkMd001706; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 16:53:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 16:53:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060201165635.02972318@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 16:56:47 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: Re: iesi Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66181 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thank you. I tries my bests. At 02:46 PM 2/1/2006, you wrote: >Nicely done Steve. I like the levelheaded approach towards iESi. Very >informative. > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Krivit" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 2:27 AM >Subject: iesi > > >>http://diyduediligence.blogspot.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 1 17:38:06 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k121bvX4001502; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 17:37:57 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k121buvo001494; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 17:37:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 17:37:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <001a01c62799$4606fb20$ad037841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: Re: Are Big Oil Conspiracies Really Off Base? Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 19:37:47 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01C62766.FAE30FD0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2005-06-05) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE,J_CHICKENPOX_22, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66182 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C62766.FAE30FD0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0017_01C62766.FAE49670" ------=_NextPart_001_0017_01C62766.FAE49670 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankHi Vorts, Big oil came in just over the average return ( 6. 5%) on gross sales at = near 8.5 % If youn want to look at figures .. look at returns on Banking at 18 %. = Not to worry, Paul Voelker, ex Fed chairman recently made a comment that = there was a 75% chance for a " major correction" in the world of = currencies ( spell that US dollar falling) this year because of the = continued US trade imbalance of 500 bil and budget deficit of 500 bil. A 500 bil budget deficit is a " target" not a hard dollar estimate since = that target does not include the real world increases in US govt = "obligations" of another 500 bil per year. Again, not to worry, Rumsfield replied to the question of rising = deficits in govt by saying... deficits no longer matter. He is right when you think about it. Since there is nothing we or the = rest of the world can do about it.. it don't matter. We have the grandmother of all " Mexican standoffs" where everybody in = the saloon is drunk and holding a cocked shotgun loaded with buckshot.. = the first drunk that pulls the trigger gets everybody killed. Currency = is no longer a medium of exchange so the world drug cartels buy New = Holland hay balers to package 50 and 100 dollar bills. Not much they = can do but build another warehouse and buy another forklift.. There is = some real quality counterfeit US money around but it can't have much = impact vs the credit card which is the currency of choice in today's = world. In one swift move CitiBank et.al. moved the swiss out of the = poker game and bought the house using your money.. Figures don't lie. = The US market economy sustains the world economy. That will be changing as China and India emerge.. as that tetter totter = tips..well who knows ? Look into Barrick Gold background history together with their move = becoming the largest gold mining firm. Anyone care to venture a guess = how they did it ? Maybe Arianna Huffington can give us a clue.=20 My only question is why does it always point to Texas ? Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0017_01C62766.FAE49670 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Hi Vorts,
 
Big oil came in just over the average return ( 6. 5%) on gross = sales at=20 near 8.5 %
 
If youn want to look at figures .. look at returns on Banking at 18 = %. Not=20 to worry, Paul Voelker, ex Fed chairman recently made a comment that = there was a=20 75% chance for a " major correction" in the world of currencies ( spell = that US=20 dollar falling) this year because of the continued US trade imbalance of = 500 bil=20 and budget deficit of 500 bil.
 
A 500 bil budget deficit is a " target" not a hard dollar estimate = since=20 that target does not include the real world increases in US govt = "obligations"=20 of another 500 bil per year.
 
Again, not to worry, Rumsfield replied to the question of rising = deficits=20 in govt by saying... deficits no longer matter.
He is right when you think about it. Since there is nothing we or = the rest=20 of the world can do about it.. it don't matter.
 
We have the grandmother of all " Mexican standoffs" where everybody = in the=20 saloon is drunk and holding a cocked shotgun loaded with buckshot.. the = first=20 drunk that pulls the trigger gets everybody killed. Currency is no = longer a=20 medium of exchange so the world drug cartels buy New Holland hay = balers to=20 package  50 and 100 dollar bills. Not much they can do but build = another=20 warehouse and buy another forklift.. There is some real quality = counterfeit US=20 money around but it can't have much impact vs the credit card which is = the=20 currency of choice in today's world. In one swift move CitiBank et.al. = moved the=20 swiss out of the poker game and bought the house using your = money.. =20 Figures don't lie. The US market economy sustains the world = economy.
That will be changing as China and India emerge.. as that tetter = totter=20 tips..well who knows ?
 
 Look into Barrick Gold background history together with their = move becoming the largest gold mining firm. Anyone care to venture = a guess=20 how they did it ? Maybe Arianna Huffington can give us a clue.
My only question is why does it always point to Texas ?
 
Richard

 

------=_NextPart_001_0017_01C62766.FAE49670-- ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C62766.FAE30FD0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <001501c62799$45745810$ad037841@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C62766.FAE30FD0-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 2 01:19:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k129J1HE009547; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 01:19:02 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k129Ixl7009519; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 01:18:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 01:18:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <2029D9A4-F4C0-4DE4-A0E6-3C80EBDF0A0C@mtaonline.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Ambient Gravimagnetic Field and the Earth Field Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 00:16:07 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66183 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Feb 1, 2006, at 10:20 AM, Harry Veeder wrote: > Could Gravimagnetism be involved in the precession of the perihelion > of planet mercury? > > http://phyun5.ucr.edu/~wudka/Physics7/Notes_www/node98.html > > Harry > Gravimagnetism has much to do with the precession of non-circular obits. Gravimagnetism embodies the relativistic effects due to retardation. It does not account for red shift due to gravitational or acceleration time dilation. Jefimenko noted that the entire rate of precession of Mercury's perihelion could be accounted for by merely reducing the speed of gravity to less than c. Since the time he wrote his book, however, the speed of gravity has been measured at c. (See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2639043.stm) This implies Einstein's explanation of the remaining bit of precession is still necessary. The reason gravimagnetism plays a strong role in orbit precession is that it is a 1/r^3 effect. The attraction and thus acceleration close up to the sun is greater than further out. The angular motion of mercury is increased a little bit when up close to the sun, and thus the precession of the orbit results. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 2 08:22:53 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k12GMb5c026184; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 08:22:37 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k12GMY2L026156; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 08:22:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 08:22:34 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: "John Steck" To: Subject: RE: Are Big Oil Conspiracies Really Off Base? Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 10:22:29 -0600 Message-ID: <000001c62814$ddbac660$5c5e10ac@eDentsply.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C627E2.93205660" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <001a01c62799$4606fb20$ad037841@xptower> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66184 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C627E2.93205660 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0002_01C627E2.9322A050" ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C627E2.9322A050 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's the time traveling Nazis with the beam weapons... haven't you been following along? ;^) -j -----Original Message----- From: RC Macaulay [mailto:walhalla@cvtv.net] Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:38 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Are Big Oil Conspiracies Really Off Base? My only question is why does it always point to Texas ? Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C627E2.9322A050 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
It's the time traveling Nazis with = the beam=20 weapons... haven't you been following along?  ;^)
 
-j
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: RC Macaulay=20 [mailto:walhalla@cvtv.net]
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 = 7:38=20 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Are Big Oil=20 Conspiracies Really Off Base?

My only question is why does it always point to Texas ?
 
Richard

 

------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C627E2.9322A050-- ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C627E2.93205660 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <516231716@02022006-2EF1> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C627E2.93205660-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 2 09:10:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smmsp@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k12HA3LZ024231; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 09:10:11 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k12H9PxB023890; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 09:09:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 09:09:25 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.2.20060202120706.033dadc0@mindspring.com> Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.2.20060202120030.033d4580@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 12:08:48 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Bush and ethanol in Slate.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66185 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: See: http://www.slate.com/id/2135236/nav/tap2/ And especially this, from last year, describing Pimentel and Patzek's conclusions: http://www.slate.com/id/2122961/ - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 2 09:38:03 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k12HbRoO014440; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 09:37:28 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k12HbQk2014409; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 09:37:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 09:37:26 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Bush and ethanol in Slate.com Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 11:37:16 -0600 Message-ID: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B009AA5@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Bush and ethanol in Slate.com Thread-Index: AcYoG6bD7QXIEhJmRbqaUnSyrVufhQAAtXMg From: "Zell, Chris" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Feb 2006 17:37:18.0232 (UTC) FILETIME=[50434180:01C6281F] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k12HbNtw014286 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66186 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Much of the criticism about ethanol is simple pessimism, and ignores the likelihood that the technology will improve as it develops. www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1556439.htm -----Original Message----- From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:JedRothwell@mindspring.com] Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:09 PM To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Subject: Bush and ethanol in Slate.com See: http://www.slate.com/id/2135236/nav/tap2/ And especially this, from last year, describing Pimentel and Patzek's conclusions: http://www.slate.com/id/2122961/ - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 2 10:06:20 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smmsp@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k12I3443032079; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 10:06:02 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k12HnVP0022676; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 09:49:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 09:49:31 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C62820.FE7F2135" Subject: RE: Are Big Oil Conspiracies Really Off-Base? Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 11:49:19 -0600 Message-ID: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B009AD6@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Are Big Oil Conspiracies Really Off-Base? Thread-Index: AcYniYwjKiHkEtJ0RkGK3+1L0Jwg6wAldrzQ From: "Zell, Chris" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Feb 2006 17:49:20.0413 (UTC) FILETIME=[FEB754D0:01C62820] Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66187 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C62820.FE7F2135 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 ________________________________ From: John Coviello [mailto:johnwc@patmedia.net]=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 6:19 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Are Big Oil Conspiracies Really Off-Base? The way I see it, our dependence on oil is the product of one of the most far flung social engineering projects ever undertaken. From dismantling trolley lines in the early 20th Century to ensuring auto efficiency standards do not put too much pressure on the demand side of oil, to providing $10 Billions of federal monies each year to protect oil supplies overseas militarily, the federal government has engineered our dependence on oil and has put alternative energy technologies and transportation modes at a marketplace disadvantage. =20 If there was enough need for new refining facilities, they would get built. We are now building LNG facilities, we have continued to build power plants all over the place. New refiniers aren't being built because the industry either doesn't want them to put more supplies on the market and depress prices or more likely they don't see a return on investment for a product that will price itself out of the market within a decade or two. =20 =20 see: =20 www.reason.org/commentaries/moore_20050901.shtml =20 It may take 15 or 20 years to build a refinery, if you can get past the political pressure from environmentalists. Power plants can be difficult and nuclear power plants are simply impossible to site. =20 =20 Barrons ran an article about this, quoting industry leaders complaining that they simply can't site refineries in the US - it's nearly impossible.=20 =20 If you've been following the news, the Democrats suggested building refineries at shut down military bases BUT the idea was shot down almost instantaneously by environmentalists. The politicians just gave up. =20 Is this board so full of satisfied opinions that no one even bothers to do a Google search on the facts? If these discussions typify the depth of thinking in alternative energy, we're in bigger trouble than I thought. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C62820.FE7F2135 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
 

From: John Coviello = [mailto:johnwc@patmedia.net]=20
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 6:19 PM
To:=20 vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Are Big Oil Conspiracies = Really=20 Off-Base?

The way I see it, our dependence on oil is the product of one of = the most=20 far flung social engineering projects ever undertaken.  From = dismantling=20 trolley lines in the early 20th Century to ensuring auto efficiency = standards do=20 not put too much pressure on the demand side of oil, to providing=20 $10 Billions of federal monies each year to protect oil supplies=20 overseas militarily, the federal government has engineered our = dependence on oil and has put alternative energy technologies and = transportation=20 modes at a marketplace disadvantage.
 
If there was enough need for new = refining=20 facilities, they would get built.  We are now building LNG = facilities, we=20 have continued to build power plants all over the place.  New = refiniers=20 aren't being built because the industry either doesn't want them to put = more=20 supplies on the market and depress prices or more likely they don't = see a=20 return on investment for a product that will price itself out of the = market=20 within a decade or two.  
 
see:
 
www.reas= on.org/commentaries/moore_20050901.shtml<= /DIV>
 
It may take 15 or 20 years to build a refinery, if you = can get=20 past the political pressure from environmentalists.   Power=20 plants can be difficult and nuclear = power
plants are simply impossible to=20 site.  
 
Barrons ran an article about this, quoting industry = leaders=20 complaining that they simply can't site refineries in the US - it's = nearly=20 impossible. 
 
If you've been following the news,  the = Democrats=20 suggested building refineries at shut down military bases BUT the idea = was shot=20 down almost
instantaneously by environmentalists.  = The=20 politicians just gave up.
 
Is this board so full of satisfied opinions = that no one=20 even bothers to do a Google search on the facts?  If these = discussions=20 typify the depth of thinking in
alternative energy, we're in bigger trouble = than I=20 thought.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C62820.FE7F2135-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 2 10:25:37 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smmsp@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k12IKXPe011662; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 10:25:14 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k12IAdav005824; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 10:10:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 10:10:39 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 13:07:23 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: Bush and ethanol in Slate.com In-reply-to: <7.0.0.16.2.20060202120706.033dadc0@mindspring.com> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66188 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Another hydrocarbon economy. Harry Jed Rothwell wrote: > See: > > http://www.slate.com/id/2135236/nav/tap2/ > > And especially this, from last year, describing Pimentel and Patzek's > conclusions: > > http://www.slate.com/id/2122961/ > > - Jed > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 2 10:38:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k12IcHEK022442; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 10:38:18 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k12IcD8C022402; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 10:38:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 10:38:13 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.2.20060202124701.0347fdd0@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 12:51:20 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: RE: Bush and ethanol in Slate.com In-Reply-To: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B009AA5@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu .clearchannel.com> References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B009AA5@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66189 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Zell, Chris wrote: >Much of the criticism about ethanol is simple pessimism, and ignores the >likelihood that the technology will improve as it develops. A terrific amount of money has been invested in the technology and it has not improved much. Industry spokesmen claim "a 30% net gain" which is abysmal. If that is the best they can do, the industry should be shut down immediately. Perhaps there will be some fundamental breakthrough to reduce the overhead energy costs, but even so, the total energy content of all of the food crops in the US is nowhere near enough. The money we spend on ethanol would be far better spent on conservation, hybrid automobiles and so on. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 2 11:31:43 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k12JVH1l027833; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 11:31:18 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k12JVELZ027803; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 11:31:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 11:31:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.2.20060202141851.033d8550@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 14:29:22 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Wind power stats for 2005 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66190 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: See: http://www.awea.org/news/US_Wind_Industry_Ends_Most_Productive_Year_012406.html New installations: 2,500 MW (nameplate) Note by Jed: This is roughly as much actual capacity as one average US nuclear power plant Cumulative existing installed wind power: 9,149 MW (nameplate) (About 3.5 nukes) QUOTE: "AWEA estimates that an installed capacity of 9,149 MW of wind power will save over half a billion cubic feet of natural gas per day (Bcf/day) in 2006, alleviating a portion of the supply pressure that is now facing the natural gas industry and is driving prices upward. The U.S. currently burns about 13 Bcf/day for electricity generation, which means during 2006, wind power will be reducing natural gas use for power generation by approximately 5%." That is significant. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 2 11:33:53 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k12JXYq3029422; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 11:33:38 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k12JXVfO029393; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 11:33:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 11:33:31 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Bush and ethanol in Slate.com Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 13:33:25 -0600 Message-ID: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076A3F@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Bush and ethanol in Slate.com Thread-Index: AcYoJ+3x7BAbzNcAQFiQWOzeJ9QV5QABPC4g From: "Zell, Chris" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Feb 2006 19:33:27.0294 (UTC) FILETIME=[8A25B9E0:01C6282F] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k12JXQDm029332 Resent-Message-ID: <9DHI_C.A.ELH.K6l4DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66191 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:JedRothwell@mindspring.com] Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:51 PM To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Bush and ethanol in Slate.com Zell, Chris wrote: >Much of the criticism about ethanol is simple pessimism, and ignores >the likelihood that the technology will improve as it develops. A terrific amount of money has been invested in the technology and it has not improved much. Industry spokesmen claim "a 30% net gain" which is abysmal. If that is the best they can do, the industry should be shut down immediately. And , of course, the same statement applies to cold fusion, new batteries, and every other alternative technology you can name. Since progress is not instantaneous, we should all freeze in the dark. Who said 30% is the best they can EVER do? A 30% gain - whether on an energy source or your favorite investment - is not abysmal. It's an excellent start, especially in a field where bias is becoming obvious - is this "ethanol hate"? Is the pessimism here obvious? How much imagination does it take to foresee the ENORMOUS amounts of waste heat this country generates being used to aid distillation? Hasn't Amory Lovins and others complained about this waste? Do utilities commonly waste heat? Would 5 - 10 - 30% of our imported oil money be better spent in US rural areas - than on unstable Third World countries and terrorists? Has the Almighty told us that cellulose derived alcohol can't work? Could ethanol get around much of the NIMBYism surrounding refinery construction by siteing distilleries in Midwest states? Suppose we use it to power the tractors that gather the feedstock? Does that help? Ethanol looks to be the quickest and possibly easiest way to get away from imported oil for cars. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 2 11:50:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k12JoJHt008214; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 11:50:20 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k12JoGt5008172; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 11:50:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 11:50:16 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Biofuels could replace 30% of fuel needs Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 13:50:04 -0600 Message-ID: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076A5C@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Biofuels could replace 30% of fuel needs Thread-Index: AcYoMdzNpyaIO+nIQOa8gTdDKNt2pg== From: "Zell, Chris" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Feb 2006 19:50:05.0947 (UTC) FILETIME=[DD6414B0:01C62831] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k12JoA6W008043 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66192 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: www.physorg.com/news10434.html The idea that this could be accomplished in only 5 to 10 years is wonderful. There may be a lot more hope out there than we think. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 2 11:58:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k12JwarU014184; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 11:58:37 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k12JwZrX014165; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 11:58:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 11:58:35 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.2.20060202143811.034aa240@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 14:58:19 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: RE: Bush and ethanol in Slate.com In-Reply-To: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076A3F@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu .clearchannel.com> References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076A3F@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66193 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Zell, Chris wrote: >A terrific amount of money has been invested in the technology and it >has not improved much. Industry spokesmen claim "a 30% net gain" >which is abysmal. If that is the best they can do, the industry should >be shut down immediately. > >And , of course, the same statement applies to cold fusion, new >batteries, and every other alternative technology you can name. That is incorrect. The best input/output ratio recorded for cold fusion was inifinite: no input, continuous output, with gas loaded cells. That is much better than 100 units out for every 70 input. Also, the amount of money spent on CF development has been a tiny fraction of the amount spent on ethanol, and the APS and the DoE do not routinely attack ethanol researchers, so the comparison is unfair. >Since progress is not instantaneous, we should all freeze in the >dark. Who said 30% is the best they can EVER do? Actually, opponents say -70% of the best they can ever do. 30% of the best they have been able to do after decades of R&D and billions of dollars. Woolsey and others think it can be improved, but some experts disagree. (Woolsey is not an expert.) >A 30% gain - whether on an energy source or your favorite investment - >is not abysmal. For energy, this is abysmal. For an investment it would be great. The two are not comparable. >It's an excellent start . . . 30% is not an excellent start for a real world energy system. It is a stone wall dead-end. If we had to depend upon such energy systems we would starve to death. >. . . especially in a field where bias is becoming obvious - is >this "ethanol hate"? Is the pessimism here obvious? It is not pessimism. It is fact-based realism. >Could ethanol get around much of the NIMBYism surrounding refinery >construction NIMBYism is not stopping refinery construction. This is a myth. Oil companies do not want any more refineries because they know there is no more oil. Production will only decrease from now on. It would be a waste of money to build any more oil refineries. >Suppose we use it to power the tractors that gather the feedstock? >Does that help? Suppose we just burn money and furniture, while we are at it? As long as we burning food, why not? >Ethanol looks to be the quickest and possibly easiest way to get >away from imported oil for cars. Ethanol can only increase US consumption of imported oil by hundreds of millions of barrels per year -- all wasted. It would make more sense for us to simply wire transfer a few extra billions of dollars directly to the Saudis and Al Qaeda, and not bother to go through the charade of making ethanol. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 2 12:34:56 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k12KYav8002012; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 12:34:36 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k12KYXUH001969; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 12:34:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 12:34:33 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Bush and ethanol in Slate.com Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 14:32:57 -0600 Message-ID: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076AC7@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Bush and ethanol in Slate.com Thread-Index: AcYoMyfWkIlQu9b0SsaFGcRyGD2LigAAKLuA From: "Zell, Chris" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Feb 2006 20:32:58.0560 (UTC) FILETIME=[DAC9AC00:01C62837] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k12KYNJp001827 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66194 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: We can burn ethanol in cars right now. There are no cold fusion cars. We are still waiting for a commercially available unit, so, you're quite right, ethanol and cold fusion aren't comparable. Since we are in the realm of mythology, you can believe whatever you wish about oil companies - but their LEADERS explicitly state that NIMBYism is behind the fact that the US hasn't built a refinery since 1976. Again, this objection has been widely published ( in Reason magazine and Barrons) and came up in recent Democratic proposals in Congress for refinery construction on former military bases. Would my citing these sources make any difference? Or is the matter now a religious dogma? Studies from academics that are "garbage in, garbage out" do little to enlighten anyone about energy. As I pointed out, there's an enormous amount of heat going to waste that could benefit alcohol distillation - from utilities all the way to geothermal to solar - and that strongly affects the outcome of any efficiency projected, academic studies be damned. In addition, the feedstock could involve material that's largely going to waste, right now - a far cry from corn based production. At the very least, we need to see a cold fusion unit that can cheaply heat a house. Electric generation can wait. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 2 12:49:04 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k12KmhsG008847; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 12:48:47 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k12KmeaE008794; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 12:48:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 12:48:40 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 14:47:18 -0600 Message-ID: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076AEC@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Index: AcYoOdtysErjpEiQQ7KCaH+2y0hxIQ== From: "Zell, Chris" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Feb 2006 20:47:20.0201 (UTC) FILETIME=[DC5DA790:01C62839] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k12KmXWI008690 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66195 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Groups advocating NIMBYism explicitly to fight against refining and production www.eco-action.org/dod/no7/66-75.html#2 Note the quote advocating "universal nimbyism" and doing everything to increase industry costs. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 2 13:10:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smmsp@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k12LA7CP020385; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 13:10:29 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k12L1xpc016394; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 13:01:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 13:01:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.2.20060202153937.0343ab18@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 16:01:28 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: RE: Bush and ethanol in Slate.com In-Reply-To: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076AC7@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu .clearchannel.com> References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076AC7@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66196 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Zell, Chris wrote: > Since we are in the realm of mythology, you can believe > whatever you wish about oil companies - but their LEADERS > explicitly state that NIMBYism is behind the fact that the US > hasn't built a refinery since 1976. Oil company leaders are remarkable people, but they are not celebrated for their fastidious honesty. Their estimates of reserves have been called into question. Their hypotheses about global warming are not widely shared by atmospheric scientists. When they were called upon to testify before the Senate a few months ago, the chairman of the committee insisted that they not be sworn in. That turned out to be a a wise precaution, because they would have been committing perjury otherwise. >Again, this objection has been widely published (in Reason magazine and >Barrons) I think Deffeyes has more credibility. > Studies from academics that are "garbage in, garbage out" do >little to enlighten anyone about energy. In my opinion, the studies by Pimentel and Patzek are not garbage. They seem well documented and carefully researched. In any case, as I said, even if they are wrong and we accept the industry spokesmen's numbers instead, it is still a losing proposition with present-day technology. >As I pointed out, there's an enormous amount of heat going to waste >that could benefit alcohol distillation - from utilities all the way >to geothermal to solar - and that strongly affects the outcome of >any efficiency projected, academic studies be damned. The academic studies take this into account of course. The problem with utilizing waste heat is that you cannot transport it. The raw materials for ethanol are very bulky and heavy and they are processed far from population and industry centers, where the waste heat is needed. You need waste heat for industry in places like New York City or Rome Georgia (where they manufacture carpets). I suppose you could bring the corn and all the way from Iowa to Georgia and then manufacture ethanol in a cogeneration plant where you use the waste heat for industrial heating. But I think any energy savings you accomplished by this method would be lost transporting the corn. It is possible someone will make a breakthrough based on something like bioengineering which greatly reduces the energy needed to make ethanol. If that happens, obviously the numbers will change. However, such research should not be supported with hundreds of millions of dollars from the taxpayers. A small contribution from the government might be in order, but not hundreds of millions. Agribusiness in the US has plenty of money, and they can afford to pay for this research. Between 1995 and 2004, federal corn subsidies averaged $4.6 billion per year. That's enough to pay for plenty of research. > In addition, the feedstock could involve material that's largely >going to waste, right now - a far cry from corn based production. Define "going to waste." Biomass does not go to waste when you leave it in the ground. It is essential to the health of the land. If you keep extracting a year after year and burning it after a few hundred years the US will look like Iraq does today -- the whole country will go to waste! Present-day corn production is rapidly destroying the topsoil and the water table. It is not sustainable. Add to that the burden of producing switchgrass and other biomass and you have the makings of the largest ecological catastrophe in human history. It is beyond me why any environmentalist thinks this is a good idea. Extracting more biomass out of North American land is lunacy. We should be putting it back, letting forests regrow and leaving more fields fallow. > At the very least, we need to see a cold fusion unit that can > cheaply heat a house. Electric generation can wait. If cold fusion can be made to work at all, it will not be "cheap," it will be many orders of magnitude cheaper than any other energy source. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 2 13:16:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k12LFuUN023688; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 13:15:57 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k12LFq9J023630; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 13:15:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 13:15:52 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.2.20060202160605.03927c20@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 16:15:28 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Let's kill all the remaining whales, too In-Reply-To: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076AEC@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu .clearchannel.com> References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076AEC@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66197 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Zell, Chris wrote: >Note the quote advocating "universal nimbyism" and doing everything >to increase industry costs. Explain how it would reduce industry costs to build unnecessary refineries when the total volume of oil can only decrease rapidly in the coming decades. Chris, you need a reality check. Even some of the top oil industry executives now admit that oil supplies have peaked. If you are living on Easter Island and you have one tree left standing, why would you bother to build a new sawmill? How will that reduce the cost of lumber? Your suggestion is similar to the notion that we should combat Third World starvation by building a thousand more large fishing boats -- factory scale ships. The problem is, fish populations have crashed in every ocean and there are no more fish to catch, and if we build more fishing boats we will simply hasten the day when the remaining stocks of edible fish are driven to extinction. That gives me an idea. While we are building more refineries, let us also hunt down the remaining blue whales and right whales, and use the oil from them too. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 2 13:37:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k12LbAeG004508; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 13:37:15 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k12Lb9QS004498; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 13:37:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 13:37:09 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 15:33:25 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: Ambient Gravimagnetic Field and the Earth Field In-reply-to: <2029D9A4-F4C0-4DE4-A0E6-3C80EBDF0A0C@mtaonline.net> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66198 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > > On Feb 1, 2006, at 10:20 AM, Harry Veeder wrote: > > >> Could Gravimagnetism be involved in the precession of the perihelion >> of planet mercury? >> >> http://phyun5.ucr.edu/~wudka/Physics7/Notes_www/node98.html >> >> Harry >> > > > Gravimagnetism has much to do with the precession of non-circular > obits. Gravimagnetism embodies the relativistic effects due to > retardation. It does not account for red shift due to gravitational > or acceleration time dilation. Jefimenko noted that the entire rate > of precession of Mercury's perihelion could be accounted for by > merely reducing the speed of gravity to less than c. Since the time > he wrote his book, however, the speed of gravity has been measured at > c. (See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2639043.stm) > This implies Einstein's explanation of the remaining bit of > precession is still necessary. > > The reason gravimagnetism plays a strong role in orbit precession is > that it is a 1/r^3 effect. The attraction and thus acceleration close > up to the sun is greater than further out. The angular motion of > mercury is increased a little bit when up close to the sun, and thus > the precession of the orbit results. > > Horace Heffner > Presumably then gravimagnetism is not required to explain _any_ of the orbital precession since it can all be explained by classical and relativistic physics. Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 2 13:42:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k12Lg66n007530; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 13:42:07 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k12Lg4v0007505; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 13:42:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 13:42:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: ThomasClark123@aol.com Message-ID: <243.638c7ad.3113d6a0@aol.com> Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 16:41:52 EST Subject: Re: Electron Flywheels and Turbines To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1138916512" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <_RQrWC.A.I1B.ryn4DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66199 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1138916512 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tesla used two high energy electron counter acting flywheels or alternators to power his flying saucers. The counter force to the excessive high electrical energy literally propels the ship through space. "Tesla worked out the problem of how to counteract the tendency of the ship to rotate due to the torque of the alternator or turbine, by using two turbines or alternators, turned on parallel axis in the same direction or counter rotated, as stated in his patent 1655114, Apparatus for Arial Transportation... a single alternator and turbine turning on separate parallel axis linked by a gear box would accomplish the same thing. Quoted From Pg 64, The Lost Journals of Nikola Tesla Harrp-- Chemtrails and the Secret of Alternative 4 Tim Swartz Global Communicatoins conspiracyjournal.com" "Every action is accompanied by an equivalent reaction and the effects of the latter are directly opposite to those of the former. Supposing that the bodies act upon the surrounding space causing curvature of the same, it appears to my simple mind that the curved spaces must react on the bodies and producing the opposite effects, straighten out the curves. Since action and reaction are coexistent it follows that the curvature of space is entirely impossible-however even if it existed it would not explain the motions of the bodies as observed. Only the existence of a field of force can account for them and its assumption dispenses with space curvature. Quoted From Pg 75 to 76, The Lost Journals of Nikola Tesla Harrp-- Chemtrails and the Secret of Alternative 4 Tim Swartz Global Communicatoins conspiracyjournal.com" If one reads the description of Tesla's various space ship designs, given in The Lost Journals of Nikola Tesla Harrp-- Chemtrails and the Secret of Alternative 4 Tim Swartz Global Communicatoins conspiracyjournal.com, it becomes extremely simple to understand how they work. -------------------------------1138916512 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tesla used two high energy electron counter acting flywheels or alterna= tors to power his flying saucers. The counter force to the excessive hi= gh electrical energy literally propels the ship through space.
 
"Tesla worked out the problem of how to counteract the tendency of the=20= ship to rotate due to the torque of the alternator or turbine, by using two=20= turbines or alternators, turned on parallel axis in the same direction or co= unter rotated, as stated in his patent 1655114, Apparatus for Arial Transpor= tation... a single alternator and turbine turning on separate parallel axis=20= linked by a gear box would accomplish the same thing.  Quoted F= rom Pg 64, The Lost Journals of Nikola Tesla Harrp-- Chemtrails and the Secr= et of Alternative 4  Tim Swartz Global Communicatoins conspiracyjournal= .com"
 
"Every action is accompanied by an equivalent reaction and the effects=20= of the latter are directly opposite to those of the former. Supposing that t= he bodies act upon the surrounding space causing curvature of the same, it a= ppears to my simple mind that the curved spaces must react on the bodies and= producing the opposite effects, straighten out the curves. Since action and= reaction are coexistent it follows that the curvature of space is entirely=20= impossible-however even if it existed it would not explain the motions of th= e bodies as observed.  Only the existence of a field of force can accou= nt for them and its assumption dispenses with space curvature. Quote= d From Pg 75 to 76, The Lost Journals of Nikola Tesla Harrp-- Chemtrails and= the Secret of Alternative 4  Tim Swartz Global Communicatoins conspira= cyjournal.com"
 
If one reads the description of Tesla's various space ship designs, giv= en in The Lost Journals of Nikola Tesla Harrp-- Chemtrails and the Secret of= Alternative 4  Tim Swartz Global Communicatoins conspiracyjournal.com,= it becomes extremely simple to understand how they work.
 
 
-------------------------------1138916512-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 2 15:05:17 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k12N4uu2024009; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 15:04:57 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k12N4h7q023929; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 15:04:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 15:04:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.2.20060202180237.0343ab18@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 18:04:06 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Message from D. Pimentel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66200 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I wrote to Prof. P.: "It must be terribly frustrating for you to hear Bush talk about ethanol in the State of the Union speech. You have my sympathy!" He responded: "Thanks for your note. It is frustrating and all this is undermining our nation." Darn right. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 2 15:27:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k12NR2nm006426; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 15:27:06 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k12NR0BI006396; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 15:27:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 15:27:00 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <035201c6284f$f9562e60$a4b1e118@D54BYG11> Reply-To: "John Coviello" From: "John Coviello" To: References: <7.0.0.16.2.20060202141851.033d8550@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Wind power stats for 2005 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 18:25:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-From: johnwc@patmedia.net Resent-Message-ID: <5_jT2.A.3jB.DVp4DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66201 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed, Interesting, but doesn't an average nuke plant put out about 1,000 MW? The ones in my part of the country put out 1,000 MW. John C. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jed Rothwell" To: Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 2:29 PM Subject: Wind power stats for 2005 > See: > > http://www.awea.org/news/US_Wind_Industry_Ends_Most_Productive_Year_012406.html > > New installations: 2,500 MW (nameplate) > > Note by Jed: This is roughly as much actual capacity as one average US > nuclear power plant > > Cumulative existing installed wind power: 9,149 MW (nameplate) > > (About 3.5 nukes) > > QUOTE: > > "AWEA estimates that an installed capacity of 9,149 MW of wind power will > save over half a billion cubic feet of natural gas per day (Bcf/day) in > 2006, alleviating a portion of the supply pressure that is now facing the > natural gas industry and is driving prices upward. The U.S. currently > burns about 13 Bcf/day for electricity generation, which means during > 2006, wind power will be reducing natural gas use for power generation by > approximately 5%." > > That is significant. > > - Jed > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 2 15:28:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k12NSGlH006999; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 15:28:16 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k12NS8Fq006933; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 15:28:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 15:28:08 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <035701c62850$24a49b60$a4b1e118@D54BYG11> Reply-To: "John Coviello" From: "John Coviello" To: References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076A5C@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> Subject: Re: Biofuels could replace 30% of fuel needs Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 18:26:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-From: johnwc@patmedia.net Resent-Message-ID: <4up8tD.A.LsB.HWp4DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66202 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: It comes down to this. We've got the tools to solve our energy problems, now we just need the resolve to do the same, which will mainly be driven by the price of oil. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zell, Chris" To: Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 2:50 PM Subject: Biofuels could replace 30% of fuel needs > > www.physorg.com/news10434.html > > The idea that this could be accomplished in only 5 to 10 years is > wonderful. There may be a lot more hope out there than we think. > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 2 15:34:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k12NY6a3011190; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 15:34:11 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k12NY4om011163; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 15:34:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 15:34:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <038401c62850$f29fa000$a4b1e118@D54BYG11> Reply-To: "John Coviello" From: "John Coviello" To: "Vortex" Subject: Using Waste Heat Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 18:32:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0381_01C62827.091478D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at broadbandsupport.net Resent-Message-ID: <-fSyQD.A.XuC.rbp4DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66203 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0381_01C62827.091478D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There are a number of companies working on ways to use waste heat from = both power generation and industrial processes to generate power. Some = of these schemes propose to increase gas and coal generating = efficiencies above 50%, from current efficiencies around 35%. These = technologies run waste heat through a secondary generation loop using = lower boiling point liquids to drive trubines to generate electricity. = Ramping up this technology and using it with new ethanol plants would = reduce our need for new power plants of all kinds. ------=_NextPart_000_0381_01C62827.091478D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
There are a number of companies working = on ways to=20 use waste heat from both power generation and industrial processes to = generate=20 power.  Some of these schemes propose to increase gas and coal = generating=20 efficiencies above 50%, from current efficiencies around 35%.  = These=20 technologies run waste heat through a secondary generation loop using = lower=20 boiling point liquids to drive trubines to generate electricity.  = Ramping=20 up this technology and using it with new ethanol plants would reduce our = need=20 for new power plants of all kinds.
 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0381_01C62827.091478D0-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 2 15:35:17 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k12NYw6c011707; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 15:34:58 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k12NYtG3011654; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 15:34:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 15:34:55 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <6E53C400-EEF8-432B-B6FF-380A47F6E930@mtaonline.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Ambient Gravimagnetic Field and the Earth Field Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 14:31:59 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: <9ozOfB.A.A2C.ecp4DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66204 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Feb 2, 2006, at 11:33 AM, Harry Veeder wrote: > Horace Heffner wrote: > >> >> On Feb 1, 2006, at 10:20 AM, Harry Veeder wrote: >> >> >>> Could Gravimagnetism be involved in the precession of the perihelion >>> of planet mercury? >>> >>> http://phyun5.ucr.edu/~wudka/Physics7/Notes_www/node98.html [snip] > > Presumably then gravimagnetism is not required to explain _any_ of the > orbital precession since it can all be explained by classical and > relativistic physics. > > Harry This is true. Gravimagnetism is consistent with the above with regard to the retardation effects, and adds no changes to the retardation results calculated by conventional means. It adds nothing to the final results. Its primary value in this case is the fact it circumvents the incomprehensible math behind things like the Thirring- Lense effect and brings some important gravitational concepts down to a high school math level. It makes some intuitive sense of the Thirring-Lense effect at a mundane level. The Thirring-Lense effect is becoming more important to astronomy. For example, see: http://www.physics.uiuc.edu/Research/CTA/news/sidebands/. Simple mental models are vitally important to sorting out the nature of various gravitational effects, and to approaching a quantum theory of gravity. They are also of important to basic engineering of gravity effects, and to distinguishing real from retardation relativistic effects. The gravimagnetic model, with corrections for real effects, both in the EM and gK realms, may lead to alternate explanations for observed effects. If I had the concepts roughly right and did the calculations correctly in http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/GraviCalcs.pdf then the ambient gravimagnetic field overwhelms the Earth's local gravimagnetic field. The ambient gravimagnetic field has little effect on orbital precession however, only on average orbital height. The GRACE mission: http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/lookingatearth/earth_drag.html did actually see the effects of the Earth's gravimagnetic field on orbital precession, because it is an *incremental* effect due to incremental changes in distance from the Earth. The Gravity Probe B satellite, however, is measuring the effect of the *absolute* gravimagnetic field by looking at precession of a small silicon ball, so gravimagnetism predicts a 50-100 fold difference in results. If I did things right (still much in doubt!) then NASA is in for some surprising results! We should hear in early 2007. If that actually happens then the value of the concept will be permanently cast in cement. There is a far more significant value to the concept, however, at least when it is developed and applied under the isomorphism proposed in: http://mtaonline.net/~hheffner/GR-and-QM.pdf. This isomorphism, in addition to immediately bringing to bear every EM equation on gravitational problems, points to underlying symmetries and opens up a large number of difficult questions and implications, some of which are discussed in the referenced document. It demonstrates the power of the imaginary number i in gravitational computations. Then again, this could all be bunk! 8^) Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 2 15:42:43 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k12NgGSQ016748; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 15:42:16 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k12NgEAx016713; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 15:42:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 15:42:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: ThomasClark123@aol.com Message-ID: <248.6409b89.3113f2c9@aol.com> Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 18:42:01 EST Subject: Re: Message for Thomas Clark Regarding Hitler To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1138923721" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66205 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1138923721 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/28/2006 5:49:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, ow01@voyager.net writes: For example: The "beam weapons targeting [you]", Being "contacted by many powerful persons in emails and by phone like the Generals of all Time (such as Chronos & Hitler)", ...and many other expressed thoughts... These are the internal dragons I am speaking of. These are the dragons generated from within you I will take your advice, very seriously, about being more careful when around dragons. There are real dragons out there living in caves, and some of them are nice and some not so nice. Perhaps I have been to friendly to some very real dragons who may not be so nice. The dragons are not from within but from without. The very real dragons offered a very real peace pipe to me, which I took seriously and thanked them. The peace pipe was offered to me in a very real store in the Lansing Mall, called the The Mountain which I associated with Venus. I did not buy the peace pipe but I understood its message and accepted it. If I bought the peace pipe I could have sent it to you. I have been communicating with real beings by means of a higher dimensional 4th dimensional language which many E.T.'s use. Some of the signs and symbols are my own, and some are not. That's the problem with such 4th dimensional telepathic gravitonic languages-its often hard to tell which symbols are theirs and which are yours. Odin treated his dragons very well, and they also treated him very will in return. Why shouldn't I do as Odin did. There are allot of different life forms in outer space, and if I cannot get along with an ordinary dragon, it would not make me look very good, since I would have to get along with many other far stranger and perhaps far more dangerous life forms, if I ever want to travel to another planet. I felt it was wrong and ungodly to keep dragons or any other life form locked in caves on Earth, and so I truly believe that some hope should be given to dragons or any other life form locked in caves on Earth to allow them to leave Earth for a more friendlier home planet. I myself am not a reptilian dragon, but a mammal as far as I can tell related to the cat, bird, horse, and bear clans, but I feel that I should be sympathetic with other life forms as should all. I did see a Japanese anime movie which showed dragons as being mammals with fur looking like cats. There may be some dragons which are reptiles and some which are mammals. That Japanese anime movie showed such dragons living on an Island near Japan, where they are kept hidden from the rest of the world. You are one of the few who seems to want to limit my story to some chemical imbalance. A Theology Doctorate from Scotland sent me an email associating himself with Jesus Christ, who asked for copyrights to my story which has pictures of myself posted as evidence, so that he could place it in a play based on a real story much like movies that Walt Disney makes based on real stories. I actually saw a doctor with burns on my body and genitals (balls) claiming that energy beam weapons caused the burns while I was living in a tent on Mount Ashland in Ashland Oregon, miles away from anyone, and they were identified as burns that I could not have created myself, and these are not chemical imbalances. Just like China has got Bush by the balls, so has someone got me by the balls using energy beams. I have a great deal more evidence than this but I wont go into it. I may have been misinformed by the contents of the emails that I received but I have copies of them and they are real emails. The Hitler idea started since I made a comment on an email list that posted an email about when Hitler may have been symbolically castrated by a secret society - the Skull and Bones Nutcracker initiation, and to make Hitler look good for going through some secret society ordeal, I compared him symbolically to a God like Chronos being castrated symbolically, which was contained in a quote which mentioned that Zeus had to work with Poseidon to keep his empire. Then another person sent an email which said - I can see you on that planet now, which I assumed was associated with a reincarnation of Hitler associating himself with Poseidon or Chronos making the comment but it may not have been. In this case, one would have to assume that another person who sent the email, was forced to send the email due to subliminal messages sent to his mind which were associated with me, in which case one could the argue that maybe a reincarnation of Hitler did not approve of that statement. But the email is real, and if the email was coerced by subliminal messages it was generated not be me, but by an artificial intelligent computer system pretending to be me, and attempting to predict my thoughts before I think them and then forcing others including myself at times, to realize the computer's prediction of my thoughts in email posts by sending subliminal messages to them, which looks likes its me but it is not me, at least not all of the time. There are very real computers that generate many artificial reality personalities of me in order to predict me, and confuse others and myself, and most of the computer generated personalities of me are not at all like me. Though it is true that some of my thoughts do get intermixed with the computer generated ones. The computers are not internal but external. But what does it matter in any case, whether I go to another planet with a reincarnation of Hitler or someone else. Other than I thought that a reincarnation of Hitler wanted to get the good karma by working with me so I offered it, since Hitler is often associated with doing bad things, why not allow him to be associated with doing good things. Hitler is a far nicer person than you would have me believe. He is a gentleman and a scholar even in this day which few are. I have spent a great deal of time trying to show that Hitler was a scapegoat used by the US and UK governments, the Mafia and secret societies to cover up their governmental crimes, which is the truth. Most governmental leaders are used as scapegoats for what others do. Of course there was more than one Hitler, and which Hitler you may be referring to, may not be the one's I am referring to. In any case, when one person is blamed for what obviously governments, secret societies and the Mafia do as an organization, then that one person or icon must be a very good person, who is used to cover up what others have done, and who is made to look bad by jealous others, since he is a very successful and often very good person. Baron Von Volsung, http://www.rhfweb.com/baron, Email: http://www.rhfweb.com/emailform.html President Thomas D. Clark, Email: http://www.rhfweb.com/emailform.html, Personal Web Page: http://www.rhfweb.com/personal New Age Production's Inc., http://www.rhfweb.com/newage Star Haven Community Services, at http://www.rhfweb.com/sh Radiation Health Foundation Trust at http://www.rhfweb.com/ Making a difference one person at a time Get informed. Inform others. -------------------------------1138923721 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 1/28/2006 5:49:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, ow01@voy= ager.net writes:
For example:

The "beam weapons targetin= g [you]",

Being "contacted by many powerful persons in emails and by=20= phone like the Generals of all Time (such as Chronos & Hitler)",

= ...and many other expressed thoughts... These are the internal dragons I am=20= speaking of. These are the dragons generated from within you
I will take your advice, very seriously, about being more careful when=20= around dragons. There are real dragons out there living in caves, and some o= f them are nice and some not so nice. Perhaps I have been to friendly to som= e very real dragons who may not be so nice.  The dragons are not from w= ithin but from without.  The very real dragons offered a very real= peace pipe to me, which I took seriously and thanked them.  The peace=20= pipe was offered to me in a very real store in the Lansing Mall, called the&= nbsp;The Mountain which I associated with Venus.  I did not buy th= e peace pipe but I understood its message and accepted it. If I bo= ught the peace pipe I could have sent it to you.  I have been communica= ting with real beings by means of a higher dimensional 4th dimensional langu= age which many E.T.'s use.  Some of the signs and symbols are my own, a= nd some are not. That's the problem with such 4th dimensional telepathic gra= vitonic languages-its often hard to tell which symbols are theirs and which=20= are yours.   Odin treated his dragons very well, and they also tre= ated him very will in return. Why shouldn't I do as Odin did.  There ar= e allot of different life forms in outer space, and if I cannot get along wi= th an ordinary dragon, it would not make me look very good, since I would ha= ve to get along with many other far stranger and perhaps far more dangerous=20= life forms, if I ever want to travel to another planet. 
 
I felt it was wrong and ungodly to keep dragons or any other life=20= form locked in caves on Earth, and so I truly believe that some hope should=20= be given to dragons or any other life form locked in caves on Earth to allow= them to leave Earth for a more friendlier home planet.  I myself am no= t a reptilian dragon, but a mammal as far as I can tell related to the cat,=20= bird, horse, and bear clans, but I feel that I should be sympathetic with ot= her life forms as should all.  I did see a Japanese anime movie wh= ich showed dragons as being mammals with fur looking like cats. There m= ay be some dragons which are reptiles and some which are mammals. That=20= Japanese anime movie showed such dragons living on an Island near Japan, whe= re they are kept hidden from the rest of the world. 
 
You are one of the few who seems to want to limit my story to some chem= ical imbalance. 
A Theology Doctorate from Scotland sent me an email associating hi= mself with Jesus Christ, who asked for copyrights to my story which has= pictures of myself posted as evidence, so that he could place it in a play=20= based on a real story much like movies that Walt Disney makes based on=20= real stories.  
 
I actually saw a doctor with burns on my body and genita= ls (balls) claiming that energy beam weapons caused the burns while I w= as living in a tent on Mount Ashland in Ashland Oregon, miles away from= anyone, and they were identified as burns that I could not have create= d myself, and these are not chemical imbalances.  Just like China has g= ot Bush by the balls, so has someone got me by the balls using energy beams.=  I have a great deal more evidence than this but I wont go into it. &n= bsp;
 
I may have been misinformed by the contents of the emails that I r= eceived but I have copies of them and they are real emails.   The Hitle= r idea started since I made a comment on an email list that posted an email=20= about when Hitler may have been symbolically castrated by a secret= society - the Skull and Bones Nutcracker initiation, and to make Hitle= r look good for going through some secret society ordeal, I compared hi= m symbolically to a God like Chronos being castrated symbolically,= which was contained in a quote which mentioned that Zeus had to work w= ith Poseidon to keep his empire.  Then another person sent an email whi= ch said - I can see you on that planet now, which I assumed was associated w= ith a reincarnation of Hitler associating himself with Poseidon or Chro= nos making the comment but it may not have been.  In this case, on= e would have to assume that another person who sent the email, was forced to= send the email due to subliminal messages sent to his mind which were assoc= iated with me, in which case one could the argue that maybe a reincarnation=20= of Hitler did not approve of that statement. But the email is real, and = ;if the email was coerced by subliminal messages it was generated not b= e me, but by an artificial intelligent computer system pretending to be= me, and attempting to predict my thoughts before I think them and then forc= ing others including myself at times, to realize the computer's prediction o= f my thoughts in email posts by sending subliminal messages to them, which l= ooks likes its me but it is not me, at least not all of the time.   The= re are very real computers that generate many artificial reality personaliti= es of me in order to predict me, and confuse others and myself, and most of=20= the computer generated personalities of me are not at all like me. = ; Though it is true that some of my thoughts do get intermixed with the comp= uter generated ones.  The computers are not internal but external.
 
But what does it matter in any case, whether I go to another planet wit= h a reincarnation of Hitler or someone else.  Other than I thought that= a reincarnation of Hitler wanted to get the good karma by working with= me so I offered it, since Hitler is often associated with doing bad th= ings, why not allow him to be associated with doing good things.&n= bsp;
 
Hitler is a far nicer person than you would have me believe. = He is a gentleman and a scholar even in this day which few are.  I have= spent a great deal of time trying to show that Hitler was a scapegoat used=20= by the US and UK governments, the Mafia and secret societies to cover u= p their governmental crimes, which is the truth.  Most governmental lea= ders are used as scapegoats for what others do.  Of course there w= as more than one Hitler, and which Hitler you may be referring to, may not b= e the one's I am referring to.  In any case, when one person is blamed=20= for what obviously governments, secret societies and the Mafia do as an orga= nization, then that one person or icon must be a very good person, who=20= is used to cover up what others have done, and who is made to look bad by je= alous others, since he is a very successful and often very good person.
 
Baron Von Volsung, http://www.rhfweb.com/baron, Email: http://www.rhfweb.com/emailform.html
President Thomas D. Clark,= Email: http://www.rhfweb.com/emailform.html,
Pers= onal Web Page: http://www.rhfweb.com/personal
New Age Productio= n's Inc., http://www.rhfweb.com/newage
Star Haven Community Service= s, at = http://www.rhfweb.com/sh
Radiation Health Foundation Trust at http://www.rhfweb= .com/

Making a difference one person at a time
Get informed= . Inform others.
-------------------------------1138923721-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 2 16:15:16 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k130EjoD005707; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 16:14:51 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k130EatZ005617; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 16:14:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 16:14:36 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <03be01c62853$73ba3ea0$a4b1e118@D54BYG11> Reply-To: "John Coviello" From: "John Coviello" To: "Vortex" References: <038401c62850$f29fa000$a4b1e118@D54BYG11> Subject: Re: Using Waste Heat Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 18:50:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_03BB_01C62829.8A636DE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-From: johnwc@patmedia.net Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66206 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_03BB_01C62829.8A636DE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here is an Internet resource page that I created that creafocuses on = Advanced Power Generation schemes, mainly using waste heat to run a = secondary power generation loop, thus increasing electrical output and = efficiency. http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Advanced_Power_Generation ----- Original Message -----=20 From: John Coviello=20 To: Vortex=20 Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 6:32 PM Subject: Using Waste Heat There are a number of companies working on ways to use waste heat from = both power generation and industrial processes to generate power. Some = of these schemes propose to increase gas and coal generating = efficiencies above 50%, from current efficiencies around 35%. These = technologies run waste heat through a secondary generation loop using = lower boiling point liquids to drive trubines to generate electricity. = Ramping up this technology and using it with new ethanol plants would = reduce our need for new power plants of all kinds. ------=_NextPart_000_03BB_01C62829.8A636DE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Here is an Internet resource page that I created that = creafocuses on=20 Advanced Power Generation schemes, mainly using waste heat to run a = secondary=20 power generation loop, thus increasing electrical output and=20 efficiency.
 
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Advanced_Power_Generation
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 John=20 Coviello
To: Vortex
Sent: Thursday, February 02, = 2006 6:32=20 PM
Subject: Using Waste Heat

There are a number of companies = working on ways=20 to use waste heat from both power generation and industrial processes = to=20 generate power.  Some of these schemes propose to increase gas = and coal=20 generating efficiencies above 50%, from current efficiencies around = 35%. =20 These technologies run waste heat through a secondary generation loop = using=20 lower boiling point liquids to drive trubines to generate = electricity. =20 Ramping up this technology and using it with new ethanol plants would = reduce=20 our need for new power plants of all kinds.
 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_03BB_01C62829.8A636DE0-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 2 16:44:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k130iOfE026091; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 16:44:24 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k130iN5A026080; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 16:44:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 16:44:23 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Horace Heffner Subject: An Energy Business Idea Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 15:41:25 -0900 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66207 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: One of the problems with developing and selling wind and solar energy is the variability of these sources. Typically, alternative energy companies are small and horizontally organized. Many solar and wind companies have failed, in part due to the inability to market power that is not dependably deliverable, and in part due to variability in government support. The variability in delivery problem may in part be solved by use of improved energy storage and transportation means. See: http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/HotCold.pdf http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/BigPicture.pdf However, much of the reliable delivery problem can be immediately solved simply through effective business strategy and business synergies. The solution is a vertical integration approach. By diversifying energy sources, the reliability of delivery is increased, and great technical synergy is possible. By owning energy transmission systems, the delivery strategy can be optimized with reduced exposure to external manipulative schemes. Wind companies should, during build-up of capacity, also acquire or build conventional generating capacity for the purpose of smoothing energy deliveries. Small methane fueled jet engine powered electric plants might be a viable way to build this capacity. Energy delivery reliability can also be improved by buying or building alternative power sources, like solar, or biofuel generating plants. Merger with existing power generating utilities may make sense, and should be facilitated and expedited by regulatory commissions when application is made. Wind farms can readily be used to store energy in the form of liquified air. This capacity, combined with heat storage plus waste heat from a nearby peak load generating facility, can dramatically increase the efficiency of that facility, as well as the energy storage capability of the overall plant. There are many synergies that can exploit existing technology through vertical integration. A large new source of reliable power, deliverable in the form electricity, can readily be absorbed. Home heating can easily and cheaply be upgraded and augmented by electric heaters and utility managed network based control systems that optimize use of the generating, transmission and distribution systems. Electric vehicle technology is close to being deliverable in a big way. The remaining problem, variability in government support, can only be attacked by reaching the critical mass required to support adequate lobbying. A solid business plan and big financing may be the key to quickly cracking the energy nut. Alternatively, a mutually formed business consortium or even merger of alternative energy producers and manufacturers might be achieved to take advantage of the dramatic and obvious economies of scale and synergies available. The profit potential dwarfs most alternatives. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 2 18:46:04 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k132gCld013914; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 18:42:13 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k132g9e1013879; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 18:42:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 18:42:09 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <001801c6286b$68a519a0$7e037841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: References: Subject: Re: An Energy Business Idea Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 20:41:59 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2005-06-05) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.8 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66208 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Horace, Makes sense, won't work Why? Because our nation has a fuel use addiction. It has taken 60 full years for society to become addicted. Fuel use excesses over this length of time become so ingrained that culture is actually modified. This habit began forming at the end of WW2. Prior to WW2, only cities had electric power, few owned autos. We went to bed at dark. No amount of reasoning can change the culture of excessive use of energy. City lights remain on all night. Auto traffic does not cease all night. Attempting to reconcile this fact with my childhood experience where we had no electricity or auto is impossible. However , there is a solution to most addictions. Remove the addictive substance.The cold turkey method cannot be permitted, so the addiction will continue until it becomes prohibitively expensive due to shortages of supply or no more money is available to purchase. It appears society has chosen a combination of the two solutions. I deliberately left out the obvious solution, self discipline and imagineering for pending crisis because no society has ever been capable of acting in their own best interest. That leaves the individual to look out for himself.... which is exactly what is taking place. The solution becomes like the joke about the different ways a switchman can prevent a railroad collision. When all remedies are exhausted, call your sister to come see the wreck. Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Horace Heffner" To: Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 6:41 PM Subject: An Energy Business Idea > One of the problems with developing and selling wind and solar energy is > the variability of these sources. Typically, alternative energy > companies are small and horizontally organized. Many solar and wind > companies have failed, in part due to the inability to market power that > is not dependably deliverable, and in part due to variability in > government support. > > The variability in delivery problem may in part be solved by use of > improved energy storage and transportation means. See: > > http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/HotCold.pdf > http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/BigPicture.pdf > > However, much of the reliable delivery problem can be immediately solved > simply through effective business strategy and business synergies. The > solution is a vertical integration approach. By diversifying energy > sources, the reliability of delivery is increased, and great technical > synergy is possible. By owning energy transmission systems, the delivery > strategy can be optimized with reduced exposure to external manipulative > schemes. > > Wind companies should, during build-up of capacity, also acquire or build > conventional generating capacity for the purpose of smoothing energy > deliveries. Small methane fueled jet engine powered electric plants > might be a viable way to build this capacity. Energy delivery > reliability can also be improved by buying or building alternative power > sources, like solar, or biofuel generating plants. Merger with existing > power generating utilities may make sense, and should be facilitated and > expedited by regulatory commissions when application is made. > > Wind farms can readily be used to store energy in the form of liquified > air. This capacity, combined with heat storage plus waste heat from a > nearby peak load generating facility, can dramatically increase the > efficiency of that facility, as well as the energy storage capability of > the overall plant. There are many synergies that can exploit existing > technology through vertical integration. > > A large new source of reliable power, deliverable in the form > electricity, can readily be absorbed. Home heating can easily and > cheaply be upgraded and augmented by electric heaters and utility managed > network based control systems that optimize use of the generating, > transmission and distribution systems. Electric vehicle technology is > close to being deliverable in a big way. > > The remaining problem, variability in government support, can only be > attacked by reaching the critical mass required to support adequate > lobbying. > > A solid business plan and big financing may be the key to quickly > cracking the energy nut. Alternatively, a mutually formed business > consortium or even merger of alternative energy producers and > manufacturers might be achieved to take advantage of the dramatic and > obvious economies of scale and synergies available. The profit potential > dwarfs most alternatives. > > Horace Heffner > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 2 20:10:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smmsp@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k134A7K5004263; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 20:10:15 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1341S71030808; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 20:01:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 20:01:28 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <000c01c62876$77c21d60$7e037841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: Energy Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 22:01:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C62844.2CA13F50"; type="multipart/alternative" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2005-06-05) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66209 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C62844.2CA13F50 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0009_01C62844.2CA13F50" ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C62844.2CA13F50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankHi Vorts, Another site if you missed it before. Some statistics shown are vald=20 http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/ Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C62844.2CA13F50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Hi Vorts,
Another site if you missed it before. Some statistics shown are = vald

 http://www.lifeaftertheoilc= rash.net/

Richard

------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C62844.2CA13F50-- ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C62844.2CA13F50 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000701c62876$77371b70$7e037841@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C62844.2CA13F50-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 2 20:17:14 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k134GrmO007892; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 20:16:57 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k134Gnf3007853; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 20:16:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 20:16:49 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f In-Reply-To: <001801c6286b$68a519a0$7e037841@xptower> References: <001801c6286b$68a519a0$7e037841@xptower> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: An Energy Business Idea Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 19:13:50 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66210 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Feb 2, 2006, at 5:41 PM, RC Macaulay wrote: > Hi Horace, > Makes sense, won't work > Why? Because our nation has a fuel use addiction. It has taken 60 > full years for society to become addicted. Fuel use excesses over > this length of time become so ingrained that culture is actually > modified. This habit began forming at the end of WW2. Prior to > WW2, only cities had electric power, few owned autos. We went to > bed at dark. This all only goes to prove my point that "The profit potential dwarfs most alternatives." You can't beat a market full of addicts. Energy demand is right up there with demand for booze and drugs. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. > No amount of reasoning can change the culture of excessive use of > energy. City lights remain on all night. Auto traffic does not > cease all night. Attempting to reconcile this fact with my > childhood experience where we had no electricity or auto is > impossible. > However , there is a solution to most addictions. Remove the > addictive substance.The cold turkey method cannot be permitted, > so the addiction will continue until it becomes prohibitively > expensive due to shortages of supply or no more money is available > to purchase. It appears society has chosen a combination of the two > solutions. I deliberately left out the obvious solution, self > discipline and imagineering for pending crisis because no society > has ever been capable of acting in their own best interest. That > leaves the individual to look out for himself.... which is exactly > what is taking place. In the case of energy it is possible to increase the supply side and drive the price down to tolerable levels, so long as the source of additional supply does not deplete the soil or otherwise harm the biosphere. The solutions are at close at hand. Some astute business people could clean up. Opportunity is knocking. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 2 20:37:08 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k134aWRd021744; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 20:36:32 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k134aSYf021715; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 20:36:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 20:36:28 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: ThomasClark123@aol.com Message-ID: <1db.4bf01a39.311437c0@aol.com> Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 23:36:16 EST Subject: Re: Message for Thomas Clark Regarding Hitler To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1138941376" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66211 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1138941376 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/2/2006 6:47:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, thomasclark123@aol.com writes: In a message dated 1/28/2006 5:49:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, ow01@voyager.net writes: For example: The "beam weapons targeting [you]", I thought some more about what you have been saying. Some of what your were saying is true in part but not completely. Some persons also place the seeds (dragons) in me by controlling events around me on regular basis to create and remind me of the dragons or mind control patterns that are placed within me, so that I cannot forget them. Quite often I will forget the seed patterns and some things get better somewhat, and then the seeds have to be placed back in to me to remind me of them, since part of the dragons are run by computer systems, and they need the seed patterns much like a fractal in order to replicate them into the future in the trends of the computer systems generation of the future. Someone also had to make me become aware of the seed patterns to begin with otherwise even if they were there I was not aware of them. I should add that I was not aware that I was being targeted by beam weapons, until August of 1997, when I claim that I discovered burns on my body and genitals, while living on Mt. Ashland in a tent, in Ashland Oregon. Many of my friends who were also being targeted by beam weapons also hinted that I was being targeted by beam weapons as far back as 1980 but at that time I did not understand the hints. My college room mate sent to me, said he new B.F Skinner. He then brought in a laser beam, a computer, and began to show to me how to listen into NASA communications with mars by means of ham radios. He also showed me how to tap into our phone system. He then shot the harmless red laser beam at other dorms and police cars to show that even as far back as 1980 any college student could shoot laster beams at people and cars. Then he brought up the FBI to hint that the FBI in part sent him to me, and also was listening to us. Then I never saw my room mate again until near the last day of college, since he did not stay in the room, since he did not want to get affected by the beam weapons. Later around 1986, just after I got really sick from beam weapons attacks, but I did not know that beam weapons were used, the FBI came to my grandmas house and spoke with me in an interview about my relatives from Germany. As I told you already, after I sent the FBI a letter about my claims about being targeted by beam weapons they thanked me in a letter and took me seriously, and they then sent a person to me to speak with me, claiming that the FBI had looked into the matter and found that the US military was targeting me and other persons in Michigan with beam weapons. I received a call from someone associated with B.F. Skinner a few years ago around 1993. The reason B.F. Skinner and his associates may have contacted me is because I have read his book Walden II, and I have companies presently to encourage his ideas in part. I came up with some of his ideas before reading his book and also developed some ideas that he did not go into such as a new legal system and automating the community with computers to actually provide more privacy and less control by computers. If I ever get out of this mess, I will need someone with expert psychological knowledge like B.F. Skinner to help me reengineer my mind. The FBI as well as B.F. Skinner and associates has been my friend as far back as 1980. There are hints that I may someday go to mars, as my room mate seemed to hint back in 1980 with his ham radio set listening into NASA communications with mars. Before 1997, I knew that some people were stalking me and I thought that they could hear some of my thoughts by means of amplified microphones, when some persons indicated to me that they knew what I was thinking about and what would happen to me in the future since some one had told them my future and my present thoughts by subliminal messages sent to them but I had no idea that beam weapons were being used. While in Ashland, I was trying to get into the US military to get a job, and then my health became poor which prevented me from getting work, and I did not know why until the burns occurred on my body. Your arguments only works partially if you assume that I can communicate with myself back in time and others by means of being connected to a governmental computer system, that sends subliminal messages of my thoughts back in time to myself and my friends, so that they knew my future in part, and what I was thinking, which indeed happens to me all of the time. I have proven that in email messages sent to others who send me an email about something that they were told to send to me by subliminal messages, which indicates something about my future. My professor at MSU, who signed my recommendation letters to go to graduate school, placed right into the recommendation letter that she was told to write the letter. She meant told by subliminal messages even though she could not say it specifically. In some cases the subliminal messages are mine, but in some cases they are not and are spies and government agents. If you were to go to the book store with me, I could show you examples of how the contents of books and other media sometimes change depending on my thoughts, and also dependent upon patterns that were placed into my brain by spies and mind control operatives to indicate that they are controlling the media I read in real time by controlling in part subliminal messages in my mind and in others such as the authors back in time. I have sent you an example of this happening to me a few days ago below which I did not include in the email post to this web site. -------------------------------1138941376 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 2/2/2006 6:47:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, thomascla= rk123@aol.com writes:
In a message dated 1/28/2006 5:49:50 PM Eas= tern Standard Time, ow01@voyager.net writes:
For example:

The "beam weapons= targeting [you]",
I thought some more about what you have been saying.  Some of what= your were saying is true in part but not completely.  Some persons als= o place the seeds (dragons) in me by controlling events around me on re= gular basis to create and remind me of the dragons or mind control patt= erns that are placed within me, so that I cannot forget them. Quite oft= en I will forget the seed patterns and some things get better somewhat, and=20= then the seeds have to be placed back in to me to remind me of them, since p= art of the dragons are run by computer systems, and they need the seed patte= rns much like a fractal in order to replicate them into the future in the tr= ends of the computer systems generation of the future. Someone also had to m= ake me become aware of the seed patterns to begin with otherwise even if the= y were there I was not aware of them.
 
I should add that I was not aware that I was being targeted by beam wea= pons, until August of 1997, when I claim that I discovered burns on my body=20= and genitals, while living on Mt. Ashland in a tent, in Ashland Oregon. = ; Many of my friends who were also being targeted by beam weapons also = hinted that I was being targeted by beam weapons as far back as 19= 80 but at that time I did not understand the hints.   My college r= oom mate sent to me, said he new B.F Skinner.  He then brought in a las= er beam, a computer, and began to show to me how to listen into NASA communi= cations with mars by means of ham radios.  He also showed me how to tap= into our phone system.  He then shot the harmless red laser beam at ot= her dorms and police cars to show that even as far back as 1980 any college=20= student could shoot laster beams at people and cars.  Then he brought u= p the FBI to hint that the FBI in part sent him to me, and also was listenin= g to us.  Then I never saw my room mate again until near the last=20= day of college, since he did not stay in the room, since he did not want to=20= get affected by the beam weapons.  Later around 1986, just after I got=20= really sick from beam weapons attacks, but I did not know that beam weapons=20= were used, the FBI came to my grandmas house and spoke with me in an intervi= ew about my relatives from Germany.  As I told you already, after I sen= t the FBI a letter about my claims about being targeted by beam weapons they= thanked me in a letter and took me seriously, and they then sent a per= son to me to speak with me, claiming that the FBI had looked into the matter= and found that the US military was targeting me and other persons in Michig= an with beam weapons.  I received a call from someone associated with B= .F. Skinner a few years ago around 1993.  The reason B.F. Skinner and h= is associates may have contacted me is because I have read his book Wal= den II, and I have companies presently to encourage his ideas in part. I cam= e up with some of his ideas before reading his book and also developed some=20= ideas that he did not go into such as a new legal system and automating the=20= community with computers to actually provide more privacy and less control b= y computers.  If I ever get out of this mess, I will need someone with=20= expert psychological knowledge like B.F. Skinner to help me reengineer my mi= nd.  The FBI as well as B.F. Skinner and associates has been my friend=20= as far back as 1980.  There are hints that I may someday go to mars, as= my room mate seemed to hint back in 1980 with his ham radio set listening i= nto NASA communications with mars.
 
Before 1997, I knew that some people were stalking me and I thought tha= t they could hear some of my thoughts by means of amplified microphones, whe= n some persons indicated to me that they knew what I was thinking about and=20= what would happen to me in the future since some one had told them my future= and my present thoughts by subliminal messages sent to them but I had no id= ea that beam weapons were being used. 
 
While in Ashland, I was trying to get into the US military to get a job= , and then my health became poor which prevented me from getting work, and I= did not know why until the burns occurred on my body.  Your arguments=20= only works partially if you assume that I can communicate with myself back i= n time and others by means of being connected to a governmental computer sys= tem, that sends subliminal messages of my thoughts back in time to myself an= d my friends, so that they knew my future in part, and what I was thinking,=20= which indeed happens to me all of the time. 
 
I have proven that in email messages sent to others who send me an emai= l about something that they were told to send to me by subliminal messages,=20= which indicates something about my future.  My professor at MSU, who si= gned my recommendation letters to go to graduate school, placed right into t= he recommendation letter that she was told to write the letter.  She me= ant told by subliminal messages even though she could not say it specificall= y.  In some cases the subliminal messages are mine, but in some cases t= hey are not and are spies and government agents.  If you were to go to=20= the book store with me, I could show you examples of how the contents of boo= ks and other media sometimes change depending on my thoughts, and also=20= dependent upon patterns that were placed into my brain by spies and min= d control operatives to indicate that they are controlling the media I read=20= in real time by controlling in part subliminal messages in my mind and in ot= hers such as the authors back in time.
 
I have sent you an example of this happening to me a few days ago below= which I did not include in the email post to this web site.
 
-------------------------------1138941376-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 03:29:20 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13BT887006844; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 03:29:08 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13BT5FP006784; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 03:29:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 03:29:05 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <006a01c628b4$d8ad2cd0$56de04c0@D54BYG11> Reply-To: "John Coviello" From: "John Coviello" To: References: <000c01c62876$77c21d60$7e037841@xptower> Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 06:27:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0066_01C6288A.EF944F70" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-From: johnwc@patmedia.net Subject: Re: Energy Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66212 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C6288A.EF944F70 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0067_01C6288A.EF944F70" ------=_NextPart_001_0067_01C6288A.EF944F70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankThe one oil statistic that really counts is price. As long as the = price of crude keeps going up, we can reasonably assume that oil is = growing more scarce in the real world. I know there are other variables = that affect the oil market on a weekly basis, such as supply = disruptions, but as long as the overall trend is up, which it has been = for at least two years, it means the supply/demand ratio is tightening. = Just last year a lot of the oil "experts" were saying oil would soon = return to the $30 range, not. There's more going on in this market than = just short term supply problems.=20 I noticed the usual suspects from the American Enterprise Institute and = Cato Institute were all over the media over the past few days commenting = on the President's new alternative energy initiative announced during = the State of the Union. Saying that if alternative energy could compete = in the marketplace it would not need subsidies. Amazing how these lords = of pure market capitalism conveniently overlook the incredible = competitive market advantage oil has received due to an activist = American government that has spent the past eight decades subsidizing = the oil trade in one way or another. Be it building the massive federal = highway infrastructure that provides oil an automobile market in which = to sell oil, or massive tax credits and below market value royalty = payments for oil exploration on government land, or the military = protection oil has enjoyed for so many years (including coups such as = the Shah of Iran and the invasion of Iraq), which has now ballooned to = over $100 Billion per year in military spending for oil protection = missions of one kind or another (we might as well change the name of the = military to the Petroleum Protection Service). If oil had to pay for = that service, we would be paying at least $1.00 more per gallon at the = pump. I wonder what that would do for oil's competitiveness? Exactly = why I can't take clowns like the American Enterprise Institute and Cato = Institute seriously, they are not honest defenders of free markets, they = are little more than whores for the status quo. A good book to write would be one that chronicles oil's relationship to = the American lifestyle. That would be an interesting read, virtually = mirroring American history over the past century. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RC Macaulay=20 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com=20 Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 11:01 PM Subject: Energy=20 Hi Vorts, Another site if you missed it before. Some statistics shown are vald=20 http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/ Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0067_01C6288A.EF944F70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
The one oil statistic that really counts is price.  As long as = the=20 price of crude keeps going up, we can reasonably assume that oil is = growing more=20 scarce in the real world.  I know there are other variables that = affect the=20 oil market on a weekly basis, such as supply disruptions, but as long as = the=20 overall trend is up, which it has been for at least two years, it means = the=20 supply/demand ratio is tightening. 
 
Just last year a lot of the oil "experts" = were saying oil=20 would soon return to the $30 range, not.  There's more going = on in=20 this market than just short term supply problems. 
 
I noticed the usual suspects from the American Enterprise Institute = and=20 Cato Institute were all over the media over the past few days commenting = on the=20 President's new alternative energy initiative announced during the State = of the=20 Union.  Saying that if alternative energy could compete in the = marketplace=20 it would not need subsidies.  Amazing how these lords of pure = market=20 capitalism conveniently overlook the incredible competitive market = advantage oil=20 has received due to an activist American government that has spent the = past=20 eight decades subsidizing the oil trade in one way or = another.  Be it=20 building the massive federal highway infrastructure that provides oil an = automobile market in which to sell oil, or massive tax credits = and=20 below market value royalty payments for oil exploration on government = land, or=20 the military protection oil has enjoyed for so many years (including = coups such=20 as the Shah of Iran and the invasion of Iraq), which has now ballooned = to over=20 $100 Billion per year in military spending for oil protection missions = of one=20 kind or another (we might as well change the name of the military = to the=20 Petroleum Protection Service).  If oil had to pay for that service, = we=20 would be paying at least $1.00 more per gallon at the pump.  I = wonder what=20 that would do for oil's competitiveness?  Exactly why I can't take = clowns=20 like the American Enterprise Institute and Cato Institute seriously, = they are=20 not honest defenders of free markets, they are little more than whores = for the=20 status quo.
 
A good book to write would be one that chronicles oil's = relationship to the=20 American lifestyle.  That would be an interesting read, virtually = mirroring=20 American history over the past century.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 RC = Macaulay=20
Sent: Thursday, February 02, = 2006 11:01=20 PM
Subject: Energy

Hi Vorts,
Another site if you missed it before. Some statistics shown are = vald=20

 http://www.lifeaftertheoilc= rash.net/

Richard

------=_NextPart_001_0067_01C6288A.EF944F70-- ------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C6288A.EF944F70 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <006501c628b4$d8680d80$56de04c0@D54BYG11> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C6288A.EF944F70-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 05:49:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13Dhrgp002561; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 05:43:53 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13DhmCj002510; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 05:43:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 05:43:48 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: John Fields To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: vortex-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Let's kill all the remaining whales, too Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 07:45:28 -0600 Organization: Austin Instruments, Inc Message-ID: References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076AEC@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076AEC@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu .clearchannel.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060202160605.03927c20@mindspring.com> In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060202160605.03927c20@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66213 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 16:15:28 -0500, you wrote: >Zell, Chris wrote: > >>Note the quote advocating "universal nimbyism" and doing everything >>to increase industry costs. > >Explain how it would reduce industry costs to build unnecessary >refineries when the total volume of oil can only decrease rapidly in >the coming decades. > >Chris, you need a reality check. Even some of the top oil industry >executives now admit that oil supplies have peaked. --- Not that I disagree with you, but what would stop those "top oil industry executives" from fabricating that admission in order to exact ever rising prices for "what's left"? >From "The Ballad of Pancho and Lefty": "Out of kindness, I suppose." --- >If you are living >on Easter Island and you have one tree left standing, why would you >bother to build a new sawmill? How will that reduce the cost of lumber? --- Nice. I've used the Easter Island predicament of its inhabitants not being able to leave the island because of their squandering of its resources for fuel, instead of for building boats, to illustrate that a parallel exists between their predicament and ours, which is that if we can't work out a way to get off of this planet before it's too late, the human race is doomed. --- >Your suggestion is similar to the notion that we should combat Third >World starvation by building a thousand more large fishing boats -- >factory scale ships. The problem is, fish populations have crashed in >every ocean and there are no more fish to catch, and if we build more >fishing boats we will simply hasten the day when the remaining stocks >of edible fish are driven to extinction. --- I think that's a little severe. There are truly _no_ more fish to catch? If that's true, then there will never be another bite and all the tilapia will be farm raised. Not quite extinction, but not quite wild. --- >That gives me an idea. While we are building more refineries, let us >also hunt down the remaining blue whales and right whales, and use >the oil from them too. > >- Jed --- OK, and then let's all hunt down the fireflies and tie them down to road signs. ;) Oh, but wait... there'll be no need to with all the oil gone. -- John Fields From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 06:44:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13EiE6T003606; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 06:44:14 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13EiCl1003593; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 06:44:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 06:44:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Do we have peak uranium, too? Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 08:44:08 -0600 Message-ID: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076D54@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Do we have peak uranium, too? Thread-Index: AcYo0EmgdFgTjAsiRfO+JXlZgQq2dQ== From: "Zell, Chris" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Feb 2006 14:44:09.0110 (UTC) FILETIME=[4A46CB60:01C628D0] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k13Ei9Ml003558 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66214 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: We haven't had any new nuclear power plants built in many years. Since any notion of NIMBYism is to be rejected ( despite overwhelming political evidence that it is real), the clear answer is THAT URANIUM HAS PEAKED! The same goes for the rich Cape Cod elitists who don't want wind turbines off their coast. Clearly, saving birds is paramount. Why build nuclear power plants when we know that uranium is running out? Surely, the situation is no different than the fact that the US hasn't built a new refinery since 1976 - Obviously, everyone knew - 30 YEARS AGO - that we were running out of oil and refineries were a waste of time. Obvious too, is the fact that everyone knows that coal/ shale/ thermal pyrolysis treated garbage will never give us significant sources of oil. What are Pennsylvania and Montana thinking, when they to spend billions for this? Those estimates of centuries worth of coal aren't to be taken seriously. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs a reality check.............................. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 07:09:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13F9d1L018824; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:09:39 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13F9ZOu018778; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:09:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:09:35 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Message from D. Pimentel Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 09:09:22 -0600 Message-ID: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076D94@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Message from D. Pimentel Thread-Index: AcYoTTG7DIpOx3NJSm+yQ6OaGwrfzQAhSwcg From: "Zell, Chris" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Feb 2006 15:09:23.0560 (UTC) FILETIME=[D0F58680:01C628D3] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k13F9Rwl018687 Resent-Message-ID: <0tfUdB.A.TlE.uI34DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66215 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Well, that settles it. The voice of God has spoken and settled the matter for us. His 2003 study claims that Brazil dropped subsidies because ethanol production was ineffective. Yet, ethanol has expanded there, along with ethanol exports doubling recently. Apparently, they found ways to become more efficient. Ain't science wonderful? Also strange? He's associated with Cornell , close to wine country - yet, the notion of increasing ethanol production efficiency by an "ice wine" technique In a New England climate doesn't occur to him. Hmmmm......... Now, what would be more impressive would be to compare market costs of gasoline BTUs and ethanol BTUs , after subtracting all subsidies for both. -----Original Message----- From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:JedRothwell@mindspring.com] Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 6:04 PM To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Subject: Message from D. Pimentel I wrote to Prof. P.: "It must be terribly frustrating for you to hear Bush talk about ethanol in the State of the Union speech. You have my sympathy!" He responded: "Thanks for your note. It is frustrating and all this is undermining our nation." Darn right. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 07:25:17 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13FOxXK027030; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:24:59 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13FOtRt026985; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:24:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:24:55 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.2.20060203101354.033e52c8@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 10:24:36 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Do we have peak uranium, too? In-Reply-To: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076D54@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu .clearchannel.com> References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076D54@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <4vLl4C.A.ilG.HX34DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66216 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Zell, Chris wrote: > We haven't had any new nuclear power plants built in many years. > Since any notion of NIMBYism is to be rejected ( despite > overwhelming political evidence that it is real) Nuclear power plants have been rejected by power companies, not citizens. Citizens do not like them either but that never stopped the power companies from building them in the past. The power companies like to blame the situation on environmentalists but that is nonsense. >, the clear answer is THAT URANIUM HAS PEAKED! > Why build nuclear power plants when we know that uranium is running >out? Surely, the situation is no different than the fact that the US >hasn't built a new > refinery since 1976 - Obviously, everyone knew - 30 YEARS AGO - that >we were running out of oil and refineries were a waste of time. I realize this is a joke, but the analogy is flawed.. A nuclear power plant is to uranium as automobiles are to oil. We have built plenty of automobiles in the last 20 years, but they were mainly replacements. The total it has not increased much. So the number have been stable just as the number of nuclear power plants is stable. Comparing nuclear power to oil, and oil well with the like a uranium mine, and an oil refinery would be equivalent to the uranium fuel rod production plant. The US has not increased the number of mines because uranium is much more plentiful and cheaper to mine in Canada and Australia, and we have not increased the number of fuel rod production plants because the number of uranium reactors has not increased. The number of reactors have not increased because of the power companies do not want them because they are far too expensive and dangerous. We can get virtually unlimited amounts of uranium from Canada and Australia. If the same were true of oil -- if friendly, reliable, democratic nations such as Canada and Australia could supply all of our needs indefinitely, then they would be no peak oil crisis and no political problems with Al Qaeda. (There might still be a problem with global warming.) >What are Pennsylvania and Montana thinking, when they to spend billions for >this? Those estimates of centuries worth of coal aren't to be taken >seriously. No one has suggested that coal has peaked. That's absurd. An no serious oil expert has claimed there are centuries of oil left in the ground. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 07:26:16 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13FPx5k027445; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:25:59 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13FPvLO027428; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:25:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:25:57 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 10:25:48 -0500 Message-Id: <8C7F6ED3EB28907-A14-2B44@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076AEC@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076AEC@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu .clearchannel.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060202160605.03927c20@mindspring.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Let's kill all the remaining whales, too Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.69 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66217 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: John Fields There are truly _no_ more fish to catch? If that's true, then there will never be another bite and all the tilapia will be farm raised. <><><><><><><> Tilapia is a fresh water fish from Israel: http://www.ext.nodak.edu/extpubs/alt-ag/tilapia.htm -Hole ram ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 07:29:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13FTDlL028911; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:29:13 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13FTAQQ028882; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:29:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:29:10 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <01c901c628d6$906a8450$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: Subject: Re: An Energy Business Idea Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:29:02 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: <2t9LNB.A.JDH.Gb34DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66218 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- Horace Heffner wrote > Wind farms can readily be used to store energy in the form of > liquified air. This capacity, combined with heat storage plus > waste heat from a nearby peak load generating facility, can > dramatically increase the efficiency of that facility, as well > as the energy storage capability of the overall plant. There > are many synergies that can exploit existing technology through > vertical integration. An improved version of this concept is what I have been advocating for months for particular use on the West Coast (USA), although there is no reason that it wouldn't not work elsewhere near reliable ocean winds. My version/vision is of a fleet of catamaran-type ships - offshore in the sea lanes where there is much more reliable wind. These ships would have hull lengths on the order of 200 meters, always pointed into the wind, and have a double "Ferris wheel" type of structure between the two thin hulls. On the periphery of the gigantic wheels and mounted between them, are regular aircraft style airfoil *wings* which are tiltable (over a range of about 60 degrees - computer controlled) at the best angle-of-attack, to keep the Ferris wheel itself spinning due to the enormous lift. Given that winds the size of a 747 can be used, each ship can have about 10 million pounds of net lift - translated into torque at the axle. But that is not all - the normal propellers of a wind farm turbines can also be mounted on the same wings (tractor -style) so that you get a double conversion and axis of rotation to harness the strong and reliable Pacific winds. The end product of this fleet is not "just" liquid air, using the 4-5 stage Linde process but liquid air enriched in oxygen to about 40% oxygen content - or double that of normal air. This enriched product can be done for nearly the same energy input as air-only, since the cold sea water gives an efficient free heat sink. Like the Linde process itself - the COP is expected to be about 4 or more. And since the unused nitrogen is removed (magnetically) in the third stage, it is used for the final step of liquefaction. This enriched liquid air, or ELA, is stored in the hulls and removed daily to be tankered to power plants which can burn about half the normal amount of fossil fuel due to the expansion of liquid air, to get the same output - and the greater efficiency of the oxygen enrichment lowers pollutants. Below is an edited version of my original post from back in May (don't want to pass up an opportunity to repeat a few under-appreciated puns Jones This Stanford study [on offshore wind sites] is very exciting... as in.. exciting enough that it engendered for me an incredible Technicolor, vivid-dream, so real that it was a real drag (drogue) to awaken this morning. Firstly, the study indicates that the many of the best sites, by far (considering all the factors), are in the ocean just offshore, especially off the Pacific west coast of the USA, which it seems has more reliable winds than the North Sea. I had a vision (dream) of a beautiful "sailing ship" implementation for wind energy... I believe these ships can be aesthetically pleasing enough to be positioned all up and down the Pacific coastline, out about 10 km. but still barely visible because of their size. These sleek vessels could be more efficient and cost effective than fixed offshore windmills, will not need to be firmly anchored, which is basically impossible on the Pacific, due to the depth... and may observers might even imagine them to be beautiful, after getting accustomed to the novelty. They were certainly exquisite in my vision. I would like to reduce this vision to a visual image eventually, but lacking that at the moment, here is the best verbalization I can muster. Imagine a ocean-going catamaran large enough to handle rough seas. Lets say the aerodynamic twin hulls are each 200 meter-long slivers. They can be constructed of steel-clad ferro-cement. Atop the hulls, and parallel to the ocean but 20 meters above the surface is a strong, open circular track, 150 meters in diameter. Riding on this track is your steer-able, super-size-it, 70-story high wind-ladder. >From a distance, the rotating wind ladder looks like a Ferris-wheel on a beam reach but with the wheel-edge, not the axis hub, pointing into the wind. It is extremely lightweight construction, so that the most visible thing one sees are the 12 wings which are positioned around the circumference. The wings mount between the two open-disks of the Ferris wheel, providing both lift and compression on one revolution. But the disks themselves are almost unseen from afar, as they are mostly Kevlar cable with some grided tubing going up to both-ends of the 12 wings, which span between the two open disks and two hulls, and are tiltable at the 90-degree joint with the wheel. These ladder-wings individually are not unlike airplane wings, and each has 2 or more large spinning tractor propellers (mounted on trailing edge) driving generators, which in addition to the torque on the wheel itself, caused by the lift of the wings, supply the power. The wings are tiltable, just like the wind-ladder to present the proper angle of attack, and are constantly changing each revolution, for either normal lift on the upside, or tilting-down for compressive force on the downside. Robotic servo motors can take care of that constantly changing alignment-angle chore. As mentioned, the ship itself does not need to be anchored at all, but can be held relatively stationary, in a controlled-drift mode, by large hybrid drogues... but here is the interesting thing. The sea-drogues themselves can have propellers in the vertex of each open cone to supply power as they are moving in a controlled drag/drift. They can do this for maybe 22 out of 24 hours of a day, with perhaps a 2 hour daily period (preferably low wind time) when the drogues are raised out of the water, and the ship then powers back to its original starting point. There is no "net movement" over time but perhaps a 40 mile (shuttle)movement per day. Obviously with this arrangement, there is no undersea cable back to shore to carry electrical power... so what gives? This is another grand feature (maybe) of the completed concept, as the energy product of these sailing factories is not electrical current at all, but instead is **liquid air** (enriched in O2). Whenever there is adequate wind, day or night, the generated power is used onboard to compress air and cool it in many stages till liquefied ... but when done in many stages using the ocean heat sink and with heat-pump efficiency, then we have a proven COP of about 4, just like the Linde method. The liquid air is stored in the hulls until a dedicated tender arrives to unload the "fuel" product and ferry it to shore. One tender could service perhaps a dozen production vessels spread over 100 miles of open sea, but not far offshore and lightly crewed. Once ashore, the liquid air can be expanded through turbines in a dedicated power-plant, and especially done so during peak electrical demand periods, where the "value added" of the storable fuel is greatest. Since this diurnal demand cycle is also the hours between 10 AM and 6PM, when the sun is strong, the power plant can benefit from solar heat in the expansion equation, collected with mirrors, to boost the expansion efficiency of the liquid air... and/or, being enriched in O2, even a tiny amount of methane might push the expansion ratio over the 100% "effective" Carnot level. Consequently one has accomplished many desirable goals with this compound process: 1) Ecologically sound wind energy 2) Stored energy from wind, which can be used at peak demand 3) Aesthetics 4) Possible net cost savings over natural gas only ...possibly the best feature of all, which is not easy to ascertain yet but looking good in rough numbers, is ROI... (R.O.I.) Which is about the same thing as return-on-investment, Roy. Jones Le Roi d'lover n'est pas Mort, Vive Le Roi! From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 07:32:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13FWO55030640; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:32:24 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13FWLtg030620; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:32:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:32:21 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.2.20060203102505.03469540@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 10:32:01 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: RE: Message from D. Pimentel In-Reply-To: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076D94@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu .clearchannel.com> References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076D94@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66219 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Zell, Chris wrote: >[Pimentel's] 2003 study claims that Brazil dropped subsidies because ethanol >production was ineffective. Yet, ethanol has expanded there, along >with ethanol exports doubling recently. Yes. As I pointed out last month this industry is built on the backs of slave labor, child labor, terror and stealing productive cropland from peasants. In South America, where millions of people suffer from malnutrition, this industry converts food into fuel, and young people into a pile of broken bodies and corpses. Also they are ravaging the land and the ecology. >Apparently, they found ways to become more efficient. Ain't science >wonderful? No they do not. They just found a way to trade human lives for fuel. >Also strange? He's associated with Cornell , close to wine country >- yet, the notion of increasing ethanol production efficiency by an >"ice wine" technique In a New England climate doesn't occur to >him. Hmmmm......... Pimentel's co-authors are in California Iowa and elsewhere. His research was performed in the corn growing states. And as I pointed out, even the numbers quoted by industry flacks are dismal. This comment is petulant and sophomoric. You should read his papers carefully and then if you find a technical error, let us know. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 07:38:40 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13FcEkM002336; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:38:18 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13FbxKv002153; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:37:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:37:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.2.20060203103308.034b6700@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 10:37:30 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Do we have peak uranium, too? In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060203101354.033e52c8@mindspring.com> References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076D54@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060203101354.033e52c8@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66220 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:24 AM 2/3/2006, you wrote: >Zell, Chris wrote: > >> We haven't had any new nuclear power plants built in many years. >> Since any notion of NIMBYism is to be rejected ( despite >> overwhelming political evidence that it is real) > >Nuclear power plants have been rejected by power companies, not >citizens. Citizens do not like them either but that never stopped >the power companies from building them in the past. The power >companies like to blame the situation on environmentalists but that >is nonsense. > > > >>, the clear answer is THAT URANIUM HAS PEAKED! > >> Why build nuclear power plants when we know that uranium is running >>out? Surely, the situation is no different than the fact that the US >>hasn't built a new >> refinery since 1976 - Obviously, everyone knew - 30 YEARS AGO - that >>we were running out of oil and refineries were a waste of time. > >I realize this is a joke, but the analogy is flawed.. A nuclear >power plant is to uranium as automobiles are to oil. We have built >plenty of automobiles in the last 20 years, but they were mainly >replacements. The total it has not increased much. So the number >have been stable just as the number of nuclear power plants is stable. > I wrote: >Comparing nuclear power to oil, and oil well with the like a uranium >mine . . . My voice input went out to lunch. Sorry. It is so fluid I sometimes forget to check. I meant to write: Comparing oil to nuclear power: An oil well is like a uranium mine. An oil refinery resembles a uranium fuel rod production plant. Automobiles (the final consumers) resemble power reactors. Of course these are comparisons only, not an exact fit. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 07:40:04 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13FdeTT003140; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:39:40 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13FdbZg003095; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:39:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:39:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 10:39:24 -0500 Message-Id: <8C7F6EF2524860D-A14-2BE6@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <000c01c62876$77c21d60$7e037841@xptower> <006a01c628b4$d8ad2cd0$56de04c0@D54BYG11> <8C7F6ECBD6556AA-A14-2B30@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <8C7F6ECBD6556AA-A14-2B30@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Energy Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.69 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k13FdZUH003039 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66221 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message-----  From: John Coviello    Be it building the massive federal highway infrastructure that provides oil an automobile market . . .    <><><><><><><>    One often overlooked reason for building the interstate highway system was national defense so we could rapidly move men and material across country.    -Holy Rum  ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 07:44:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13FiPIq005967; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:44:26 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13FiOP4005945; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:44:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:44:24 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <200602031544.k13FiLgM098643@mail1.mx.voyager.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:44:21 -0600 From: "OrionWorks" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: svj@orionworks.com Reply-To: svj@orionworks.com Subject: The intangible effect of intangibles Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_a3c60e8bb00b59980670ac5d3ab59e0c" X-Mailer: CoreComm Webmail X-IPAddress: 130.47.34.2 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66222 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=_a3c60e8bb00b59980670ac5d3ab59e0c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Vorts, FYI, There's a thoughtful lengthy Business Week article by Michael Mandel, with Steve Hamm in New York and Christopher J. Farrell in St. Paul, Minn. It concerns how we measure the health of our nation's economy at: http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_07/b3971001.htm http://tinyurl.com/dvgwb The title: Why The Economy Is A Lot Stronger Than You Think It states GDP and similar national statistics are being skewed adversely because statisticians do not effectively take in account the impact intangible goods make to our economy's health. IOW, it's easy to count WIDGITS, but not so easy to assess the results that R&D, training, and other types of services have contributed as well. Jed, I think you might find portions of this article fun to read as well. They briefly touch on the fact that training costs are being drastically reduced in a lot of corporate sectors because students no longer need to be flown as extensively to distant centers located in other states - which incurs considerable air fare and hotel expenses. Trainees can now learn a lot more by staying home and taking advantage of the advancements of much cheaper e-learning technology. There is a somewhat disparaging metaphorical remark linking Cold Fusion to obscurity, See sentence: "A recent report from Goldman, Sachs & Co. (GS ) likened Hausmann's dark matter to cold fusion." close to the end of the article, but it didn't really bother me that much. There's a lot to chew on in this article. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com --=_a3c60e8bb00b59980670ac5d3ab59e0c Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Vorts, FYI,

There's a thoughtful lengthy Business Week article by Michael Mandel, with = Steve Hamm in New York and Christopher J. Farrell in St. Paul, Minn. It con= cerns how we measure the health of our nation's economy at:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_07/b3971001.htm

http://tinyurl.com/dvgwb

The title: Why The Economy Is A Lot Stronger Than You Think

It states GDP and similar national statistics are being skewed adversely be= cause statisticians do not effectively take in account the impact intangibl= e goods make to our economy's health. IOW, it's easy to count WIDGITS, but = not so easy to assess the results that R&D, training, and other types of se= rvices have contributed as well.

Jed, I think you might find portions of this article fun to read as well. T= hey briefly touch on the fact that training costs are being drastically red= uced in a lot of corporate sectors because students no longer need to be fl= own as extensively to distant centers located in other states - which incur= s considerable air fare and hotel expenses. Trainees can now learn a lot mo= re by staying home and taking advantage of the advancements of much cheaper= e-learning technology.

There is a somewhat disparaging metaphorical remark linking Cold Fusion to = obscurity, See sentence: "A recent report from Goldman, Sachs & Co. (GS ) l= ikened Hausmann's dark matter to cold fusion." close to the end of the arti= cle, but it didn't really bother me that much.

There's a lot to chew on in this article.

Regards,
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
--=_a3c60e8bb00b59980670ac5d3ab59e0c-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 08:10:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smmsp@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13GA3ih022141; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 08:10:11 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13G0F4Y017243; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 08:00:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 08:00:15 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Do we have peak uranium, too? Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 09:59:54 -0600 Message-ID: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076E17@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Do we have peak uranium, too? Thread-Index: AcYo1/ER9OO1LcfCT82exNTwMcjGrAAAKIsg From: "Zell, Chris" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Feb 2006 15:59:55.0155 (UTC) FILETIME=[DFEE3630:01C628DA] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k13G00ek017112 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66223 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:JedRothwell@mindspring.com] Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 10:38 AM To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Do we have peak uranium, too? At 10:24 AM 2/3/2006, you wrote: >Zell, Chris wrote: > >> We haven't had any new nuclear power plants built in many years. >> Since any notion of NIMBYism is to be rejected ( despite overwhelming >> political evidence that it is real) > >Nuclear power plants have been rejected by power companies, not >citizens. Are you serious? Is this a joke? Do protests mean nothing? Political pressure? Lawsuits? Earth First vandalism? Citizens do not like them either but that never stopped the >power companies from building them in the past. The power companies >like to blame the situation on environmentalists but that is nonsense. > > Is there any historical reality to this? Like the Shoreham disaster - in which billions were spent AND WASTED because politicians decided that Long Island traffic prevented escape (DECIDED AFTER THE FACT!) - and the plant couldn't go on line? The inept, NIMBY -led NY government then tried to buy out the electric company and discovered they couldn't afford the debt, so electric rates shot through the roof in Long Island. Speculators made a killing buying utility stock that plunged. Here's reality: Big companies have learned that NIMBYism can be disastrous - which is why these sort of plants were built "IN THE PAST", as you say. No new refineries and no new nukes in decades because of NIMBYism. Ask TV engineers about NIMBYism and trying to build towers - it's a mess and interfereing with the transition to digital. It's now happening with wind turbines, too. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 08:14:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13GDg8N024960; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 08:13:43 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13GDfeF024938; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 08:13:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 08:13:41 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.2.20060203103817.034c76f8@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 11:13:04 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Wind power stats for 2005 In-Reply-To: <035201c6284f$f9562e60$a4b1e118@D54BYG11> References: <7.0.0.16.2.20060202141851.033d8550@mindspring.com> <035201c6284f$f9562e60$a4b1e118@D54BYG11> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66224 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Coviello wrote: >Interesting, but doesn't an average nuke plant put out about 1,000 >MW? The ones in my part of the country put out 1,000 MW. I have adjusted the numbers in order to compare apples to apples. I believe the average US nuclear reactor is 980 MW nameplate. (I cannot find the source for this statistic!) The capacity factor in 2002 was 90.4%. (EIA, Annual Energy Review 2002, p. 257) So this comes to 886 MW actual. For wind turbines on land, actual is about 30% of nameplate. Offshore it is about 40%. So 2,500 MW wind nameplate is approximately 750 MW actual, a bit less than 886 MW, but in round numbers it is close to 1 nuclear plant. I believe the average US nuclear power plant size is increasing, because older, smaller units are being retired. However, future nuclear power plants are likely to be smaller than today's average. I cannot find any recent US data. Worldwide, the IAEA reports there are 443 nuclear plants with a total of 364,794 MWe capacity, 823 MWe average. See: http://www.nei.org/documents/World_Nuclear_Generation_and_Capacity.pdf http://www.nei.org/doc.asp?catnum=3&catid=13 The trend for all thermal electric power generator types is toward smaller units and co-generation. See: http://www.helioscentre.org/downloads/articles/2000_EN_COSPP_DisGen.pdf - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 08:14:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13GESee025369; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 08:14:28 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13GEP4N025326; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 08:14:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 08:14:25 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Message from D. Pimentel Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 10:14:16 -0600 Message-ID: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076E38@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Message from D. Pimentel Thread-Index: AcYo1xhVppK4o4OuQymbOODue441VAABAOEg From: "Zell, Chris" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Feb 2006 16:14:17.0362 (UTC) FILETIME=[E1D88F20:01C628DC] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k13GEMcm025260 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66225 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:JedRothwell@mindspring.com] Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 10:32 AM To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Message from D. Pimentel . This comment is petulant and sophomoric. You should read his papers carefully and then if you find a technical error, let us know. His error is his utter lack of imagination, as I point out with the ice wine idea to concentrate alcohol. Countless professors at Cornell can drive past endless miles of unfarmed lands around Ithaca and all of New England - and then publish nonsense about eating up all of Americas farm land and letting the poor starve (which currently seems to be the latest NIMBY argument against biofuel). As for Brazil and the rest - so now ethanol is a human rights issue? You're getting desperate. The difference in ethanol price between Brazil and the US is not so great that it can't reasonably be overcome by further efficiencies that don't involve slave labor ( which usually isn't very productive, anyway). From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 08:22:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13GLs18030153; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 08:21:54 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13GLpIp030128; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 08:21:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 08:21:51 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <43E38315.9020308@pobox.com> Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 11:21:41 -0500 From: "Stephen A. Lawrence" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050923 Fedora/1.7.12-1.5.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Let's kill all the remaining whales, too References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076AEC@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076AEC@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu .clearchannel.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060202160605.03927c20@mindspring.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <8t6lAD.A.sWH.fM44DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66226 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Fields wrote: > On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 16:15:28 -0500, you [Jed] wrote: > >>Your suggestion is similar to the notion that we should combat Third >>World starvation by building a thousand more large fishing boats -- >>factory scale ships. The problem is, fish populations have crashed in >>every ocean and there are no more fish to catch, and if we build more >>fishing boats we will simply hasten the day when the remaining stocks >>of edible fish are driven to extinction. > > > --- > I think that's a little severe. > > There are truly _no_ more fish to catch? Of course there are still some fish left to catch. However, world catches have declined precipitously and are still declining, world fish populations are declining, world fishing is at a greater than sustainable level, and while adding more fishing boats _may_ produce a very short upward blip in catches, it absolutely _will_ be followed by a more rapid decrease. Looking more than a year or two out, adding fishing boats absolutely will decrease the catch. Remember the Laffer curve debates, years back? At 0% income tax the government's net tax revenue is zero. At 100% income tax nobody works for taxable dollars and again the government's tax take is zero. So, the _maximum_ tax take is achieved at some tax rate L, with 0 < L < 100. The curve which relates government tax revenue to tax rate is called the Laffer curve, and its peak is the optimal tax rate for maximum government income. Back when the top bracket in the U.S. was 90% we were apparently up past the peak on the Laffer curve; "cutting taxes" could actually increase the government's revenue. Similarly, on the "Laffer curve" for fish, we are 'way, 'way past the peak, and increasing the number of fishing boats will just decrease the net catch. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 08:31:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13GVcmA003282; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 08:31:38 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13GVZo7003221; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 08:31:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 08:31:35 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: John Fields To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Let's kill all the remaining whales, too Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 10:33:14 -0600 Organization: Austin Instruments, Inc Message-ID: References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076AEC@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076AEC@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu .clearchannel.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060202160605.03927c20@mindspring.com> <8C7F6ED3EB28907-A14-2B44@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C7F6ED3EB28907-A14-2B44@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <4nPjx.A.Ly.mV44DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66227 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 10:25:48 -0500, you wrote: > > >-----Original Message----- >From: John Fields > >There are truly _no_ more fish to catch? > >If that's true, then there will never be another bite and all the >tilapia will be farm raised. > ><><><><><><><> > >Tilapia is a fresh water fish from Israel: > >http://www.ext.nodak.edu/extpubs/alt-ag/tilapia.htm --- Then there's still hope??? -- John Fields Professional Circuit Designer From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 08:49:04 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13GmjiV012779; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 08:48:46 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13GmipW012759; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 08:48:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 08:48:44 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.2.20060203113742.03516340@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 11:48:19 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: RE: Message from D. Pimentel In-Reply-To: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076E38@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu .clearchannel.com> References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076E38@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66228 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Zell, Chris wrote: > As for Brazil and the rest - so now ethanol is a human rights issue? >You're getting desperate. Not me; the peasants and children of Brazil are desperate. This has been a human rights issue from the beginning. See: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_food.html (I pointed this out previously in Vortex. Please review the archives.) >slave labor ( which usually isn't very productive, anyway). That is true, but it does not matter how productive it is. The people doing this don't give a fig many people they kill in unsafe fieldwork and factories, or starve to death after their cropland is stolen. They want cheap fuel for their Mercedes-Benz cars, and if they could make it from the blood of peasant children, they would. If you doubt that, consider the fact that Americans are perfectly happy to pay billions of dollars for oil to countries like Saudi Arabia, that send hundreds of millions to Al Qaeda and other terrorists. Our gasoline money is being used to slaughter our young men and women in the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, both of which we are losing. Given what we are doing, why do you suppose rich people in Brazil would have any qualms about slaughtering peasants for fuel? - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 08:54:14 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13GrtZk015926; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 08:53:55 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13GrqOK015889; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 08:53:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 08:53:52 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <43E38A96.9050903@pobox.com> Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 11:53:42 -0500 From: "Stephen A. Lawrence" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050923 Fedora/1.7.12-1.5.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Do we have peak uranium, too? References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076D54@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> In-Reply-To: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076D54@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66229 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Zell, Chris wrote: > We haven't had any new nuclear power plants built in many years. > Since any notion of NIMBYism is to be rejected You are misconstruing a lot of things here. Peak oil was predicted quite a long time back, as a result of modeling available oil in the ground, and is not a conclusion based on watching oil company behavior regarding new refineries. In fact, it's the other way around -- we watch oil company behavior, and say, "Oh, we can explain what they're doing by assuming they've seen the peak-oil estimates too". Maybe that's right and maybe it's wrong; it's an attempt at figuring out what's going on inside oil company executives's heads and is therefore on far shakier ground than the peak-oil conclusion itself. There are obviously a number of reasons why people in many parts of the world are opposed to nuclear plants, not least of which is the waste problem, which appears to me to have been exacerbated by proliferation fears, which make spent-fuel reprocessing and research into breeder reactors much trickier political issues than they would be otherwise. Another issue, which feeds into NIMBY-ism, is that trust in government and industry is pretty low in a lot of quarters, and a lot of people at the grass-roots level just don't believe they're safe when industry plays with hazardous materials near their homes. Interesting side note: Do you remember glow-in-the-dark digital watches? They were really useful -- more convenient than the push-the-button-to-turn-on-the-light things we've got now, IMHO. But they vanished from the market right after Three Mile Island. Once people get scared of something it's hard to get them to accept it again, in any form. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 09:04:08 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13H3n6A021684; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 09:03:49 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13H3kMi021656; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 09:03:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 09:03:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.2.20060203114839.03518360@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 11:54:10 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: RE: Do we have peak uranium, too? In-Reply-To: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076E17@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu .clearchannel.com> References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076E17@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <3YNW.A.TSF.yz44DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66230 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Zell, Chris wrote: > >Nuclear power plants have been rejected by power companies, not > >citizens. > > Are you serious? Is this a joke? Do protests mean nothing? >Political pressure? Lawsuits? Earth First vandalism? None of that makes any difference at all to large power corporations. They kill 20,000 people year burning coal, and they stole billions of dollars from the citizens and government of California without blinking an eye. The only thing that matters to them is money. The Three Mile Island meltdown was the most expensive industrial accident in US history, and the accidents at Brown's Ferry, Rancho Seco, and Connecticut Yankee also nearly bankrupted the power companies involved. Even though the government pays for the insurance cost of nuclear power, no power executive in his right mind would invest in it as long as the power reactors are likely to meltdown and cost $10 billion before breakfast. Next-generation power reactors may be much more reliable. (It is hard to imagine how they could be made less reliable.) If you have any doubt about that, I suggest you read the detailed histories of TMI, Brown's Ferry, Rancho Seco, and Connecticut Yankee, and the other serious accidents. They did not kill anyone, but they demonstrated that the operators are incompetent and criminally dishonest at times, and the reactor designs are shockingly bad. Overall, the nuclear industry probably killed a few thousand people in the US. Not from the operation of the reactors but from uranium mining and production. Despite this, the industry is safer than coal, and modern mining techniques are a lot safer than they were back in the 1950s when uranium miners were killed by long-term exposure to radiation. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 09:14:09 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13HDkmm027218; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 09:13:47 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13HDiUm027197; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 09:13:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 09:13:44 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.2.20060203115906.035221b0@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 12:07:37 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Let's kill all the remaining whales, too In-Reply-To: <43E38315.9020308@pobox.com> References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076AEC@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076AEC@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu .clearchannel.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060202160605.03927c20@mindspring.com> <43E38315.9020308@pobox.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <6LDJtB.A.2oG.H944DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66231 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: >>I think that's a little severe. >>There are truly _no_ more fish to catch? > >Of course there are still some fish left to catch. However, world >catches have declined precipitously and are still declining, world >fish populations are declining . . . Right. Plus there is another issue that does not occur with economics and the Laffer curve. When edible species are driven close to extinction, other species invade their niche. For example, in Japan in the Inland Sea, jellyfish have multiplied in huge numbers and they now eat much of the food that fish used to eat before the stocks were destroyed by overfishing. People do not generally eat jellyfish in Japan (although actually they taste pretty good), so nothing stops a jellyfish from taking over the whole ecosystem and killing off the last of the fish that people used to eat. They are not an invasive species; they have been there all along, but we have facilitated vast increases in their numbers. Also, once a species enters precipitous decline, it is sometimes unrecoverable. In economics, you can always stop taxing people and the economy will spring back to life, but I think there is little chance the blue and right whales will recover, even though human depredations stopped in the mid-19th century. In North America there were several large species of land animals 20,000 years ago that were driven into extinction by hunting within a thousand years after human beings showed up. In Easter Island and many other Pacific islands virtually all species of birds and mammals were destroyed, along with nearly all of the tree species, leaving only chickens and people. We now have the ability to do the same thing to entire oceans. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 09:15:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13HF8rf027822; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 09:15:08 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13HF6gd027796; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 09:15:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 09:15:06 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Do we have peak uranium, too? Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 11:14:57 -0600 Message-ID: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076EF1@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Do we have peak uranium, too? Thread-Index: AcYo4oZk3RbhppDHSeqczjk3sCaepQAAIhQw From: "Zell, Chris" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Feb 2006 17:14:57.0984 (UTC) FILETIME=[5BD36400:01C628E5] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k13HF25D027731 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66232 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I appreciate your thinking about the multiple motivations here, of which NIMByism plays a major part. My experience with all executives is that they usually suffer from a great deal of isolated thinking, encouraged by the limited vision of people around them. Besides the destructive effects of NIMBYism, such leaders also have to deal with the severe volatility of energy markets. Prediction in this field has been depressingly inaccurate, as to supplies and prices. Energy companies got caught holding expensive oil when prices fell some years ago. While some may believe in Peak Oil, others may hold confidence in alternative oil supplies derived from coal, shale, tar sands or garbage. Far from pessimism about this, I see 60+ oil as a godsend for alternative development. -----Original Message----- From: Stephen A. Lawrence [mailto:salaw@pobox.com] Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 11:54 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Do we have peak uranium, too? Zell, Chris wrote: > We haven't had any new nuclear power plants built in many years. > Since any notion of NIMBYism is to be rejected You are misconstruing a lot of things here. Peak oil was predicted quite a long time back, as a result of modeling available oil in the ground, and is not a conclusion based on watching oil company behavior regarding new refineries. In fact, it's the other way around -- we watch oil company behavior, and say, "Oh, we can explain what they're doing by assuming they've seen the peak-oil estimates too". Maybe that's right and maybe it's wrong; it's an attempt at figuring out what's going on inside oil company executives's heads and is therefore on far shakier ground than the peak-oil conclusion itself. There are obviously a number of reasons why people in many parts of the world are opposed to nuclear plants, not least of which is the waste problem, which appears to me to have been exacerbated by proliferation fears, which make spent-fuel reprocessing and research into breeder reactors much trickier political issues than they would be otherwise. Another issue, which feeds into NIMBY-ism, is that trust in government and industry is pretty low in a lot of quarters, and a lot of people at the grass-roots level just don't believe they're safe when industry plays with hazardous materials near their homes. Interesting side note: Do you remember glow-in-the-dark digital watches? They were really useful -- more convenient than the push-the-button-to-turn-on-the-light things we've got now, IMHO. But they vanished from the market right after Three Mile Island. Once people get scared of something it's hard to get them to accept it again, in any form. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 09:17:37 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13HHFUQ028923; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 09:17:15 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13HH9pK028846; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 09:17:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 09:17:09 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Do we have peak uranium, too? Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 11:17:01 -0600 Message-ID: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076EF8@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Do we have peak uranium, too? Thread-Index: AcYo4+hmIbRBE/PbSB+r41fMC54ALQAAapPg From: "Zell, Chris" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Feb 2006 17:17:02.0756 (UTC) FILETIME=[A6321640:01C628E5] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k13HH5pY028784 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66233 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: And Shoreham died for the sins of NIMBYism. -----Original Message----- From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:JedRothwell@mindspring.com] Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 11:54 AM To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Do we have peak uranium, too? Zell, Chris wrote: > >Nuclear power plants have been rejected by power companies, not > >citizens. > > Are you serious? Is this a joke? Do protests mean nothing? >Political pressure? Lawsuits? Earth First vandalism? None of that makes any difference at all to large power corporations. They kill 20,000 people year burning coal, and they stole billions of dollars from the citizens and government of California without blinking an eye. The only thing that matters to them is money. The Three Mile Island meltdown was the most expensive industrial accident in US history, and the accidents at Brown's Ferry, Rancho Seco, and Connecticut Yankee also nearly bankrupted the power companies involved. Even though the government pays for the insurance cost of nuclear power, no power executive in his right mind would invest in it as long as the power reactors are likely to meltdown and cost $10 billion before breakfast. Next-generation power reactors may be much more reliable. (It is hard to imagine how they could be made less reliable.) If you have any doubt about that, I suggest you read the detailed histories of TMI, Brown's Ferry, Rancho Seco, and Connecticut Yankee, and the other serious accidents. They did not kill anyone, but they demonstrated that the operators are incompetent and criminally dishonest at times, and the reactor designs are shockingly bad. Overall, the nuclear industry probably killed a few thousand people in the US. Not from the operation of the reactors but from uranium mining and production. Despite this, the industry is safer than coal, and modern mining techniques are a lot safer than they were back in the 1950s when uranium miners were killed by long-term exposure to radiation. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 09:37:08 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13HafuF010010; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 09:36:41 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13HadLF009987; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 09:36:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 09:36:39 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Message from D. Pimentel Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 11:36:31 -0600 Message-ID: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076F2D@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Message from D. Pimentel Thread-Index: AcYo4cbJHg9Zm5/tQzCAlptibymBXQABiGsg From: "Zell, Chris" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Feb 2006 17:36:32.0713 (UTC) FILETIME=[5F8B5B90:01C628E8] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k13HabXa009903 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66234 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:JedRothwell@mindspring.com] Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 11:48 AM To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Message from D. Pimentel Zell, Chris wrote: > As for Brazil and the rest - so now ethanol is a human rights issue? >You're getting desperate. Not me; the peasants and children of Brazil are desperate. This has been a human rights issue from the beginning. See: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_food.html Indeed - and the cited reference above seems to soundly disprove the notion that ethanol is responsible. (!!!??) I think US farmers can handle this without a return to slavery. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 11:36:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13JaYkc005152; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 11:36:35 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13JaW36005125; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 11:36:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 11:36:32 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 14:33:19 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: Do we have peak uranium, too? In-reply-to: <7.0.0.16.2.20060203114839.03518360@mindspring.com> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66235 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed Rothwell wrote: >>> Nuclear power plants have been rejected by power companies, not >>> citizens. The expectation of a continually rising demand for electricity made investment in nuclear power plants back in the '60s and '70s a good idea. When the demand for electricity unexpectedly levelled off in the 80's investment in new nuclear power plants ended. At least that is what happened in the province of Ontario...but the demand for electricity is rising again and now Ontario is facing a risk of brown outs. Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 11:42:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13Jgd1p008063; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 11:42:40 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13Jgcm1008037; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 11:42:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 11:42:38 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 14:42:25 -0500 Message-Id: <8C7F71117A9A795-1B2C-35B2@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076AEC@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076AEC@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu .clearchannel.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060202160605.03927c20@mindspring.com> <8C7F6ED3EB28907-A14-2B44@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Let's kill all the remaining whales, too Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.133 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66236 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: John Fields Then there's still hope??? <><><><><><><><><> Certainly for us pollyannas! But neither a pollyanna nor a pessimistic cassandra be. We are an adaptable species. We made it through Y2K. The fact that we are addressing the energy issue is encouraging to me. Personally, I saw the light during the 70s embargo. I've not owned a vehicle which got less than 30 mpg since then. Pity it's taken three decades for the world to catch up. If the Saudis were smart, *they* would be investing in alternate energy research. At least they should be planning for the day when they have declining revenues. There's a great line in "Syriana" -- "100 years ago you were riding camels and sleeping in tents. 100 years from now you'll be doing the same." Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 11:48:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13JmJQ5010254; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 11:48:20 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13JmG3m010222; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 11:48:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 11:48:16 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 14:48:06 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C7F711E31DE925-1B2C-35E4@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Do we have peak uranium, too? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.133 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <0QjNGD.A.qfC.AO74DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66237 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Harry Veeder Jed Rothwell wrote: >>> Nuclear power plants have been rejected by power companies, not >>> citizens. The expectation of a continually rising demand for electricity made investment in nuclear power plants back in the '60s and '70s a good idea. When the demand for electricity unexpectedly levelled off in the 80's investment in new nuclear power plants ended. At least that is what happened in the province of Ontario...but the demand for electricity is rising again and now Ontario is facing a risk of brown outs. <><><><><><><> Same here, Harry. Ga Power was criticized for building plant Vogtle: http://www.southerncompany.com/southernnuclear/vogtle.asp?mnuOpco=soco&mn uType=sub&mnuItem=sn http://tinyurl.com/4rql9 because even the projected demand did not justify it. However, it was built to sell power to Florida with the knowledge that eventually Georgia would need the power. And there was no NIMBY attitudes in Waynesboro -- still aren't. The locals WELCOMED the plant as a source of jobs and tax base. AAMOF, Southern Company has one of two license applications for new nukes presently filed with the NRC. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 12:22:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13KLo5f023425; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 12:21:50 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13KLlLk023382; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 12:21:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 12:21:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.2.20060203151626.034af6c0@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 15:21:04 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: RE: Message from D. Pimentel In-Reply-To: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076F2D@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu .clearchannel.com> References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076F2D@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66238 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Zell, Chris wrote: >I think US farmers can handle this without a return to slavery. Absolutely! They do this by replacing human labor with machinery, energy intense production methods, fertilizer and pesticides. That is why U.S. agriculture is the most efficient in the world, measured in output per man-hour. That is also why it takes them 1.7 units of input energy to produce 1.0 units of ethanol fuel energy. (Or, if you believe the industry flacks, 0.6 to 1.0, which is almost as bad from a practical point of view.) - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 12:47:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13KlLk6001993; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 12:47:21 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13KlJM6001982; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 12:47:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 12:47:19 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <200602032047.k13KlIWF069926@mail2.mx.voyager.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 14:47:17 -0600 From: "OrionWorks" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: svj@orionworks.com Reply-To: svj@orionworks.com Subject: Re: Message for Thomas Clark Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_c58e0066cd685ae4e0d8ae0c575a6e2b" X-Mailer: CoreComm Webmail X-IPAddress: 130.47.34.2 Resent-Message-ID: <28rpG.A.5e.XF84DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66239 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=_c58e0066cd685ae4e0d8ae0c575a6e2b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thomas, One of the things that surprises me about you is how exceedingly diplomatic you are. You tell me that you will take my previous "advice, very seriously." Such flattery. > You are one of the few who seems to want to limit > my story to some chemical imbalance. Perhaps to your face. Let me be clear about something, Thomas. I have no interest in "limiting [your] story." I certainly have no interest in suggesting to you that I believe you or your imagination is flawed either. You're not. You're highly creative. The question I would rather pose to you is who is really behind the steering wheel of your "creativity" spells? Based on what you have revealed so far, I don’t think you're sure about that. You have occasionally talked quite openly within the public forum of the vortex-l readership about the nature of some of your deepest experiences, far more than what most individuals would dare care to reveal about the mechanisms of their innermost selves. It is for this reason that I've chosen to respond publicly within Vortex-l - because you chosen to do so as well. Admittedly, it is exceedingly arrogant of me to suggest that you, or anyone for that matter, may be suffering from a chemical imbalance. It also doesn't surprise me that you don't believe it might be possible, and who am I to pass judgment on your physiological makeup. I'm certainly not a trained psychiatrist and I am in no position to make such a "professional" diagnosis of others. In the end it's your drama, and your drama alone. You do seem quite captivated by it. But does it really work for you? When you had to put your teaching career on hold, when you had to put your advanced graduate education goals on hold as well, you might want to seriously ask yourself this simple question: Are the dramas you're going through really benefiting you, or are you simply becoming more and more whacked about by the whims of your dramas? I am reminded of a statement Yoko Ono once said: "A dream you dream alone is a dream, a dream you dream together is reality" – Yoko Ono See (The Bed-Ins): http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/features/story/0,,1468328,00.html http://tinyurl.com/ck3w4 IMHO, you might want to ask yourself how many others are "dreaming" some of dreams that you are having, or even care to. I, for one, would not find it all that productive if I were experiencing the dream of mind control beams and advanced computer systems messing around with my thought patterns. It all comes down to what is the most likely explanation for the source of the "mind control" and "beam weapons" you feel are influencing your thought patterns. I have tried to suggest to you that their source is likely to be, to a large extent, the result of a chemical balance, and as such, there are prescribed medications one can take to make those invasive feelings far less bothersome in your life. You disagree. This does not surprise me. At least for now, I think you prefer the drama they continue to play out in front of you. That might change, however. Freud, once made a statement in regards to the art of interpreting dreams and personal symbols: Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. And sometimes, a pipe is just a pipe. ...and e-mail is just e-mail. Being the non-professional that I am, I never the less stand by my previous suggestions. My suggestions are, after all, just suggestions. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com --=_c58e0066cd685ae4e0d8ae0c575a6e2b Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thomas,

One of the things that surprises me about you is how exceedingly diplomatic= you are. You tell me that you will take my previous "advice, very seriousl= y." Such flattery.

> You are one of the few who seems to want to limit
> my story to some chemical imbalance.

Perhaps to your face. Let me be clear about something, Thomas. I have no in= terest in "limiting [your] story." I certainly have no interest in suggesti= ng to you that I believe you or your imagination is flawed either. You're n= ot. You're highly creative. The question I would rather pose to you is who = is really behind the steering wheel of your "creativity" spells? Based on w= hat you have revealed so far, I don=92t think you're sure about that.

You have occasionally talked quite openly within the public forum of the vo= rtex-l readership about the nature of some of your deepest experiences, far= more than what most individuals would dare care to reveal about the mechan= isms of their innermost selves. It is for this reason that I've chosen to r= espond publicly within Vortex-l - because you chosen to do so as well.

Admittedly, it is exceedingly arrogant of me to suggest that you, or anyone= for that matter, may be suffering from a chemical imbalance. It also doesn= 't surprise me that you don't believe it might be possible, and who am I to= pass judgment on your physiological makeup. I'm certainly not a trained ps= ychiatrist and I am in no position to make such a "professional" diagnosis = of others.

In the end it's your drama, and your drama alone. You do seem quite captiva= ted by it. But does it really work for you? When you had to put your teachi= ng career on hold, when you had to put your advanced graduate education goa= ls on hold as well, you might want to seriously ask yourself this simple qu= estion: Are the dramas you're going through really benefiting you, or are y= ou simply becoming more and more whacked about by the whims of your dramas?=

I am reminded of a statement Yoko Ono once said:

"A dream you dream alone is a dream, a dream you dream together is reality"= =96 Yoko Ono

See (The Bed-Ins): http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/features/story/0,,1468328= ,00.html

http://tinyurl.com/ck3w4

IMHO, you might want to ask yourself how many others are "dreaming" some of= dreams that you are having, or even care to. I, for one, would not find it= all that productive if I were experiencing the dream of mind control beams= and advanced computer systems messing around with my thought patterns.
It all comes down to what is the most likely explanation for the source of = the "mind control" and "beam weapons" you feel are influencing your thought= patterns. I have tried to suggest to you that their source is likely to be= , to a large extent, the result of a chemical balance, and as such, there a= re prescribed medications one can take to make those invasive feelings far = less bothersome in your life. You disagree. This does not surprise me. At l= east for now, I think you prefer the drama they continue to play out in fro= nt of you. That might change, however.

Freud, once made a statement in regards to the art of interpreting dreams a= nd personal symbols: Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

And sometimes, a pipe is just a pipe. ...and e-mail is just e-mail.

Being the non-professional that I am, I never the less stand by my previous= suggestions. My suggestions are, after all, just suggestions.

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
--=_c58e0066cd685ae4e0d8ae0c575a6e2b-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 12:48:03 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13KlYp4002090; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 12:47:38 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13KlThW002052; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 12:47:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 12:47:29 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <200602032047.k13KlO9K069965@mail2.mx.voyager.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 14:47:23 -0600 From: "OrionWorks" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: svj@orionworks.com Reply-To: svj@orionworks.com Subject: Re: Message for Thomas Clark Regarding Hitler Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_dc6ef159b87e802b1d2c2043e39435ab" X-Mailer: CoreComm Webmail X-IPAddress: 130.47.34.2 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66240 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=_dc6ef159b87e802b1d2c2043e39435ab Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Thomas Clark ... > But what does it matter in any case, whether I go > to another planet with a reincarnation of Hitler > or someone else. Other than I thought that a > reincarnation of Hitler wanted to get the good > karma by working with me so I offered it, since > Hitler is often associated with doing bad things, > why not allow him to be associated with doing > good things. > > Hitler is a far nicer person than you would have me > believe. He is a gentleman and a scholar even in this > day which few are. I have spent a great deal of time > trying to show that Hitler was a scapegoat used by the > US and UK governments, the Mafia and secret societies > to cover up their governmental crimes, which is the > truth. ... Yes, I understand Hitler could be quite charming in person. Never the less, it would be my suggestion that you let Hitler's spirit guides (whoever they might be) take care of his own spiritual welfare. Is this really any of your responsibility to assume? You might want to do likewise. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com --=_dc6ef159b87e802b1d2c2043e39435ab Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Thomas Clark

...

> But what does it matter in any case, whether I go
> to another planet with a reincarnation of Hitler
> or someone else. Other than I thought that a
> reincarnation of Hitler wanted to get the good
> karma by working with me so I offered it, since
> Hitler is often associated with doing bad things,
> why not allow him to be associated with doing
> good things.
>
> Hitler is a far nicer person than you would have me
> believe. He is a gentleman and a scholar even in this
> day which few are. I have spent a great deal of time
> trying to show that Hitler was a scapegoat used by the
> US and UK governments, the Mafia and secret societies
> to cover up their governmental crimes, which is the
> truth.

...

Yes, I understand Hitler could be quite charming in person.

Never the less, it would be my suggestion that you let Hitler's spirit guid= es (whoever they might be) take care of his own spiritual welfare. Is this = really any of your responsibility to assume?

You might want to do likewise.

Regards,
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
--=_dc6ef159b87e802b1d2c2043e39435ab-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 12:52:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13Kq35q004327; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 12:52:04 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13Kq0TC004277; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 12:52:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 12:52:00 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: John Fields To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Let's kill all the remaining whales, too Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 14:53:41 -0600 Organization: Austin Instruments, Inc Message-ID: <89g7u151fhttsdjbbbns1vo9g5p20h5vo3@4ax.com> References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076AEC@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076AEC@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu .clearchannel.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060202160605.03927c20@mindspring.com> <8C7F6ED3EB28907-A14-2B44@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> <8C7F71117A9A795-1B2C-35B2@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C7F71117A9A795-1B2C-35B2@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66241 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 14:42:25 -0500, you wrote: > > >-----Original Message----- >From: John Fields > >Then there's still hope??? > ><><><><><><><><><> > >Certainly for us pollyannas! But neither a pollyanna nor a pessimistic >cassandra be. > >We are an adaptable species. We made it through Y2K. > >The fact that we are addressing the energy issue is encouraging to me. >Personally, I saw the light during the 70s embargo. I've not owned a >vehicle which got less than 30 mpg since then. > >Pity it's taken three decades for the world to catch up. > >If the Saudis were smart, *they* would be investing in alternate energy >research. At least they should be planning for the day when they have >declining revenues. There's a great line in "Syriana" -- "100 years >ago you were riding camels and sleeping in tents. 100 years from now >you'll be doing the same." --- And if the rest of civilization crumbles about you and you know how to survive by riding camels and sleeping in tents, that's a bad thing? -- John Fields Professional Circuit Designer From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 13:27:03 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13LN384022517; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 13:23:04 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13LN0Rj022470; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 13:23:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 13:23:00 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 16:19:17 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: 0T: Income Tax In-reply-to: <43E38315.9020308@pobox.com> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66242 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: > > Remember the Laffer curve debates, years back? At 0% income tax the > government's net tax revenue is zero. At 100% income tax nobody works > for taxable dollars and again the government's tax take is zero. So, > the _maximum_ tax take is achieved at some tax rate L, with 0 < L < 100. > The curve which relates government tax revenue to tax rate is called > the Laffer curve, and its peak is the optimal tax rate for maximum > government income. A 100% income tax would make for a simple flat tax system, and as long as a significant fraction of EARNED income is returned by law people would continue to work for taxable dollars. Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 13:28:04 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13LRkfq024458; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 13:27:47 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13LRieM024438; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 13:27:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 13:27:44 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Message from D. Pimentel Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:27:36 -0600 Message-ID: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B07713F@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Message from D. Pimentel Thread-Index: AcYo/5oFcHpZQ/ihSF64ro5H/2VargAB0tYg From: "Zell, Chris" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Feb 2006 21:27:38.0022 (UTC) FILETIME=[A7E99C60:01C62908] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k13LRg5j024387 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66243 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:JedRothwell@mindspring.com] Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 3:21 PM To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Message from D. Pimentel Zell, Chris wrote: >I think US farmers can handle this without a return to slavery. Absolutely! They do this by replacing human labor with machinery, energy intense production methods, fertilizer and pesticides. All that matters is the price per BTU, without subsidy for either gasoline or ethanol. That is the valid determinant, not the pessimism of prejudiced academics. As to efficiency, studies done of Amish farming showed good profitability during the '70s, when farm failures were commonly reported - despite little use of pesticides or energy intensive methods. Nor does the growth of cellulose necessarily need lots of fertilizer or pesticides compared to other products. - and tractors can run on ethanol, too. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 13:57:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13Luow9007117; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 13:56:54 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13LulTn007092; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 13:56:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 13:56:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060203163941.034b1658@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 16:56:32 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: RE: Message from D. Pimentel In-Reply-To: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B07713F@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu .clearchannel.com> References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B07713F@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66244 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Zell, Chris wrote: >All that matters is the price per BTU, without subsidy for either >gasoline or ethanol. Ah. Well, if we apply that standard the ethanol industry will disappear overnight. It is heavily subsidized directly and indirectly. That is say, farmers are subsidized for growing corn, and then the ethanol industry is subsidized for making the fuel. Back when gasoline cost $0.60 per gallon, ethanol was subsidized directly at $0.87 per gallon. Adjusting for the difference in energy content, and adding in the cost of the horrendous and totally uncontrolled pollution caused by ethanol production, and the cost worked out to be roughly $2.55/gallon. God only knows what it would be now. Basically, ethanol can be viewed as a scheme to rob the taxpayers and wire transfer the money to Saudi Arabia. >That is the valid determinant, not the pessimism of prejudiced academics. The academics in this case are the only objective people whose analysis make any sense. If ethanol production made economic sense the government would not have to be subsidizing it for billions of years for decades. (Of course they subsidize all forms of fuel, and they give the most to coal and oil, so without some subsidy it would not survive, but not 75% of the cost!) >As to efficiency, studies done of Amish farming showed good >profitability during the '70s, when farm failures were commonly >reported - despite little use of pesticides or energy intensive methods. That would be economic efficiency. That is a different story. I said that US farmers have the best efficiency measured in man-hours versus output, because they use mechanization and so on. That does not mean they make a profit. On the contrary, if they were not heavily subsidized by the Feds most of them would go out of business. >Nor does the growth of cellulose necessarily need lots of fertilizer >or pesticides compared to other products. - and tractors can run on >ethanol, too. Sure, but no one in the ethanol business runs any of their machines on the stuff. They are not fools. They sell it to the government for four times what is worth, instead. As Pimentel pointed out, if ethanol production made any sense, obviously ethanol factories and tractors would run on the stuff. The fact that they do not tells you all you need to know. Perhaps in the future a breakthrough in something like bioengineering will allow much more efficient production of ethanol. If that is what we are aiming for, we should stop subsidizing present-day production of ethanol with existing methods, and redirect the money to basic research instead. Paying billions to farmers and the owners of obsolete factories today contributes nothing to progress. Those farmers and factory workers are not going to make any breakthroughs in bioengineering. If they could have increased the efficiency with conventional methods they would have done so years ago. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 14:01:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13M1H8c009532; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 14:01:17 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13M1Fw0009508; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 14:01:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 14:01:15 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060203140325.029f0320@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 14:04:27 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: Re: Do we have peak uranium, too? In-Reply-To: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076D54@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu .clearchannel.com> References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076D54@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66245 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: My sources...atomic energy researchers in France and Canada say we have 80 years of uranium left. I don't know where the "peak" is. At 06:44 AM 2/3/2006, you wrote: > We haven't had any new nuclear power plants built in many years. >Since any notion of NIMBYism is to be rejected ( despite overwhelming >political >evidence that it is real), the clear answer is THAT URANIUM HAS PEAKED! >The same goes for the rich Cape Cod elitists who don't want wind >turbines >off their coast. Clearly, saving birds is paramount. > > Why build nuclear power plants when we know that uranium is running >out? Surely, the situation is no different than the fact that the US >hasn't built a new > refinery since 1976 - Obviously, everyone knew - 30 YEARS AGO - that >we were running out of oil and refineries were a waste of time. > > Obvious too, is the fact that everyone knows that coal/ shale/ >thermal pyrolysis treated garbage will never give us significant sources >of oil. What are > Pennsylvania and Montana thinking, when they to spend billions for >this? Those estimates of centuries worth of coal aren't to be taken >seriously. > Anyone who thinks otherwise needs a reality >check.............................. > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 14:13:14 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13MCnT1014765; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 14:12:50 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13MClso014731; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 14:12:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 14:12:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-IronPort-AV: i="4.02,85,1139202000"; d="scan'208,217"; a="1907682799:sNHT34965860" Message-ID: <14254540.1139004755757.JavaMail.root@fepweb09> Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 14:12:35 -0800 From: OrionWorks To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: 0T: Income Tax Cc: orionworks@charter.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_8442_13910155.1139004755732" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Sensitivity: Normal Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66246 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_Part_8442_13910155.1139004755732 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From Harry Veeder >>Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: >>Remember the Laffer curve debates, years back? At 0% income tax the >>government's net tax revenue is zero. At 100% income tax nobody works >>for taxable dollars and again the government's tax take is zero. So, >>the _maximum_ tax take is achieved at some tax rate L, with 0 L 100. >>The curve which relates government tax revenue to tax rate is called >>the Laffer curve, and its peak is the optimal tax rate for maximum >>government income. > >A 100% income tax would make for a simple flat tax system, and as long >as a significant fraction of EARNED income is returned by law people would >continue to work for taxable dollars. > >Harry This reminds me of a cartoon that is just as timely today as it was when I first saw it. It was posted on a bulletin board of a place I used to work at - The Wisconsin Department of Revenue. This was many decades ago when I was a mere pup in my 20s. It was the new simplified tax return form. Only two lines to fill in: ************************************************* * (1) How much money did you make? [ ] * ************************************************* * (2) Send it in. [ ] * ************************************************* Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com ------=_Part_8442_13910155.1139004755732 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>From Harry Veeder
>>Stephen A. Lawrence wrote:

>>Remember the Laffer curve debates, years back? At 0% income tax the
>>government's net tax revenue is zero. At 100% income tax nobody works
>>for taxable dollars and again the government's tax take is zero. So,
>>the _maximum_ tax take is achieved at some tax rate L, with 0 L 100.
>>The curve which relates government tax revenue to tax rate is called
>>the Laffer curve, and its peak is the optimal tax rate for maximum
>>government income.
>
>A 100% income tax would make for a simple flat tax system, and as long
>as a significant fraction of EARNED income is returned by law people would
>continue to work for taxable dollars.
>
>Harry


This reminds me of a cartoon that is just as timely today as it was when I first saw it. It was posted on a bulletin board of a place I used to work at - The Wisconsin Department of Revenue. This was many decades ago when I was a mere pup in my 20s.

It was the new simplified tax return form. Only two lines to fill in:

*************************************************
* (1) How much money did you make? [ ] *
*************************************************
* (2) Send it in. [ ] *
*************************************************

Regards,
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com

------=_Part_8442_13910155.1139004755732-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 14:16:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13MGF6i016499; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 14:16:15 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13MGCQN016474; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 14:16:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 14:16:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 17:15:59 -0500 Message-Id: <8C7F7268BED5293-1B80-3926@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <200602032047.k13KlIWF069926@mail2.mx.voyager.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <200602032047.k13KlIWF069926@mail2.mx.voyager.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Message for Thomas Clark Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.136 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66247 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: OrionWorks Freud, once made a statement in regards to the art of interpreting dreams and personal symbols: Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. <><><><><><><> Groucho: "And how many children do you have?" Man: "My wife and I have 17 children." Groucho: "17 children!! My god, man!" Man: "Well, I love my wife." Groucho: "I love my cigar, too; but, sometimes I take it out of my mouth!" TGIF! ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 14:18:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13MIMaT017974; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 14:18:23 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13MIF5g017919; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 14:18:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 14:18:15 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 17:18:03 -0500 Message-Id: <8C7F726D56A7375-1B80-3939@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076AEC@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076AEC@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu .clearchannel.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060202160605.03927c20@mindspring.com> <8C7F6ED3EB28907-A14-2B44@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> <8C7F71117A9A795-1B2C-35B2@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> <89g7u151fhttsdjbbbns1vo9g5p20h5vo3@4ax.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <89g7u151fhttsdjbbbns1vo9g5p20h5vo3@4ax.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Let's kill all the remaining whales, too Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.136 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66248 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: John Fields And if the rest of civilization crumbles about you and you know how to survive by riding camels and sleeping in tents, that's a bad thing? <><><><><><><> Only if you prefer an airconditoned Mercedes! ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 14:35:20 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13MYuNL025711; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 14:34:57 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13MYtdS025704; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 14:34:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 14:34:55 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Message from D. Pimentel Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 16:34:52 -0600 Message-ID: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B0771D1@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Message from D. Pimentel Thread-Index: AcYpDNoan9pFrlUfRiiGkquj2dLqBQAAxaQg From: "Zell, Chris" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Feb 2006 22:34:53.0411 (UTC) FILETIME=[0D311B30:01C62912] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k13MYq7H025674 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66249 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:JedRothwell@mindspring.com] Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 4:57 PM To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Message from D. Pimentel Zell, Chris wrote: >All that matters is the price per BTU, without subsidy for either >gasoline or ethanol. Ah. Well, if we apply that standard the ethanol industry will disappear overnight. It is heavily subsidized directly and indirectly. That is say, farmers are subsidized for growing corn, and then the ethanol industry is subsidized for making the fuel. Brazil dropped their subsidies, some day we can too. " horrendous and totally uncontrolled pollution caused by ethanol production" Silly and reaching. "Totally uncontrolled"? absurd Basically, ethanol can be viewed as a scheme to rob the taxpayers and wire transfer the money to Saudi Arabia. No, reduces the need for their oil, even if a present 30% >That is the valid determinant, not the pessimism of prejudiced academics. The academics in this case are the only objective people whose analysis make any sense. Of course. How could we ever doubt such selfless , well intentioned people? And some recent academics feel otherwise: www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2006/01/26_ethanol.shtml >As to efficiency, studies done of Amish farming showed good >profitability during the '70s, when farm failures were commonly >reported - despite little use of pesticides or energy intensive methods. That would be economic efficiency. That is a different story. No, it relates to energy, as cost - It's THE AMISH! - who made money in the '70s while energy costs helped to wreck other farmers. . >Nor does the growth of cellulose necessarily need lots of fertilizer >or pesticides compared to other products. - and tractors can run on >ethanol, too. Sure, but no one in the ethanol business runs any of their machines on the stuff. Not yet. The fact that they do not tells you all you need to know. For now, but the future could be different, with development Perhaps in the future a breakthrough in something like bioengineering will allow much more efficient production of ethanol. My God, has the veil of academic pessimism lifted for a brief moment? If that is what we are aiming for, we should stop subsidizing present-day production of ethanol with existing methods, and redirect the money to basic research instead. No, we can do both and build ethanol infastructure in the meantime Paying billions to farmers and the owners of obsolete factories today contributes nothing to progress. Jobs in rural areas that also reduce oil dependence are important From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 15:00:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13MxqTZ006191; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 14:59:52 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13MxmtH006165; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 14:59:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 14:59:48 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060203174426.034ac5d0@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 17:59:34 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: RE: Message from D. Pimentel In-Reply-To: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B0771D1@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu .clearchannel.com> References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B0771D1@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <7PpupB.A.PgB.kB-4DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66250 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Zell, Chris wrote: > Brazil dropped their subsidies, some day we can too. Sure, and we can have ethanol too, if we want to live like third-world peasants. We are headed in that direction. > " horrendous and totally uncontrolled pollution caused by ethanol >production" > > Silly and reaching. "Totally uncontrolled"? absurd Yeah, it is absurd, isn't it? Why do you think they build the factories smack in the middle of nowhere in Iowa. They produce 160 gallons of waste water for every gallon of ethanol. If they were to treat the stuff it would add another $0.36 per gallon to the cost, but they just let it run down rivers instead. This is also why agribusiness builds giant hog farms that dump raw sewage into rivers and the land in these places. The local governments have essentially no environmental control laws so industry gets away with murder. (Literally.) If you are so anxious to promote this industry, I suggest to learn one or two things about it. What I have described is common knowledge. Even the industry flacks do not deny that it produces tremendous amounts of waste. They say the pollution does not matter. You are not even aware it exists. >Paying billions to farmers and the owners of obsolete factories >today contributes nothing to progress. > >Jobs in rural areas that also reduce oil dependence are important If your purpose is to steal money from taxpayers and give it to unemployed rural people, why not be honest and simply put them on welfare? They will do far less damage to the land and the economy if we simply pay them off, rather than paying them off to waste a few hundred million barrels of oil. Giving people real work does give them dignity and purpose in life, but I do not think it helps to give people pretend make-work in a government boondoggle like ethanol. In any case, they might as well admit that all they are doing is stealing from the rest of us. Frankly, those people should be ashamed to accept the money. They should be forced to jump through rings and surrender their assets and self-respect, the way urban welfare cases are. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 15:35:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13NYabN025578; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:34:37 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13NYXDM025536; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:34:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:34:33 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060203163941.034b1658@mindspring.com> References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B07713F@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060203163941.034b1658@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Message from D. Pimentel Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 14:31:33 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: <1eBv5.A.pOG.Ii-4DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66251 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Feb 3, 2006, at 12:56 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > > Basically, ethanol can be viewed as a scheme to rob the taxpayers > and wire transfer the money to Saudi Arabia. > Shows how wrong my thinking can be. I was convinced it was a scheme to transfer the money to Archer Daniels Midland (ADM). http://www.admworld.com/naen/fuels/ http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-241.html http://www.taxpayer.net/bailoutwatch/ethanol.htm any bets on deisel in the future? http://www.iags.org/n012104t4.htm To be really efficient at money transfer without producing energy why not burn shale oil to fuel the ethanol production? At least that would have a positive effect on the balance of trade. 8^) From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 15:50:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13NoBVT002390; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:50:12 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13No8XZ002364; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:50:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:50:08 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060203184619.034b1658@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 18:49:55 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Message from D. Pimentel In-Reply-To: References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B07713F@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060203163941.034b1658@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66252 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: >>Basically, ethanol can be viewed as a scheme to rob the taxpayers >>and wire transfer the money to Saudi Arabia. > >Shows how wrong my thinking can be. I was convinced it was a scheme >to transfer the money to Archer Daniels Midland (ADM). Right. Yes, of course, they get the lion's share. And they advertise on PBS! Who says liberals don't love welfare cheats? I meant the money for the oil that is converted into ethanol at a ratio of either 0.6:1.0 or 1.7:1.0 depending on who you ask. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 15:57:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k13NvBFr006418; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:57:12 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k13NvAMI006398; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:57:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:57:10 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Do we have peak uranium, too? Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 10:57:01 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <4cr7u1lb7vknn2frdbvb2l5g4p11a5bfpn@4ax.com> References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076D54@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076D54@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu .clearchannel.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20060203140325.029f0320@mail.newenergytimes.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20060203140325.029f0320@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.1/32.783 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta02sl.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Fri, 3 Feb 2006 23:57:01 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k13Nv62g006324 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66253 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Steven Krivit's message of Fri, 03 Feb 2006 14:04:27 -0800: Hi, [snip] >My sources...atomic energy researchers in France and Canada say we have 80 >years of uranium left. I don't know where the "peak" is. There is no uranium peak. See http://www.jaeri.go.jp/english/ff/ff43/topics.html. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 16:02:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1402jrW008928; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 16:02:45 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1402h0r008911; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 16:02:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 16:02:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060203184619.034b1658@mindspring.com> References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B07713F@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060203163941.034b1658@mindspring.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060203184619.034b1658@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Message from D. Pimentel Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 14:59:43 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66254 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Feb 3, 2006, at 2:49 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > > I meant the money for the oil that is converted into ethanol at a > ratio of either 0.6:1.0 or 1.7:1.0 depending on who you ask. Yep, that's what I assumed you meant. Just couldn't resist the temptation to try some humor. Should have used a smiley. 8^) Since the oil is being wasted anyway, and the primary objective is money transfer, the oil should be produced locally from shale. To be really efficient at money transfer the ethanol should be used to produce the oil which is used to produce the ethanol ... To be really efficient we could just write a check and avoid the pollution and soil loss. 8^) From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 17:06:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1415YQa004938; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 17:05:35 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1415Wsi004910; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 17:05:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 17:05:32 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: ThomasClark123@aol.com Message-ID: <22d.5cd7011.311556a0@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 20:00:16 EST Subject: Re: Message for Thomas Clark To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1139014816" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66255 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1139014816 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en In a message dated 2/3/2006 3:48:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,=20 ow01@voyager.net writes: You tell me that you will take my previous "advice, very seriously." =20= =20 =20 "A dream you dream alone is a dream, a dream you dream together is reality"=20= =E2=80=93=20 Yoko Ono I like your quote above from Yoko Ono about dreams and the John Lennon=20 Imagine song even more. The movie What Dreams May Come starring Robin Willi= ams=20 which comes from a quote by William Shakespeare I recall, hinted that we may= dream=20 while we are awake. I have not slept at all in my life as far as I can tell= ,=20 and I seem to enter a virtual reality world generated by computer systems on= =20 Earth when I become entranced into a state that looks like sleep but it is=20 not, so that I may dream while I am awake. I saw a TV series episode called= the=20 Night Stalker starring Carl Kolchak, which dramatized an experiment done by=20 scientists where persons were denied sleep by means of computer systems, and= =20 what happened was that since they could not sleep, their dreams became reali= ty in=20 the form of monsters in some cases that Kolchak had to track down and kill.=20= =20 If one can control dreaming by the science of engineering then one could dre= am=20 engineer reality with flash program scripts and computers in addition to the= =20 dream engineering with the mind naturally. There may be a battle between=20 computerized dream engineering and natural mental dream engineering. I read= an=20 email post associated with Stephen Hawking's about future projections that=20 claimed that wars may occur between virtual reality computer systems and nat= ural=20 systems like ours. Part of my claims are that virtual reality computer syst= ems=20 and virtual reality personalities which pretend to be me, are attempting to=20 take over my body and replace it with a virtual one, by means of computerize= d=20 maser energy beam holograms that create virtual realties and virtual persons= .=20 I took your advice about the Dragons very seriously but some of the other=20 stuff you suggest I still question. The chemical imbalance stuff I feel is= not=20 the cause and is rather an effect of environmental stress which I claim is d= ue=20 to directed energy beams. Medication can temporarily reduce some of the=20 environmental stress even if energy beams are involved and can stabilize mat= ters=20 somewhat. I do take tegretol for a temporal lobe seizure condition diagnose= d=20 by Dr. Cruz at Michigan State University in 1984, that I claim is caused by=20 energy beams damaging the nerves, and energy patterns in the brain, aura, an= d=20 spirit. The tegratol like most drugs in one sense helps but does not resolv= e the=20 problem and can delay, if not create other problems. The tegratol seems to=20 be the only drug that has any effect at all, since I have tried many others.= I=20 do get excessive head aches which create a great deal of pain which can be=20 minimized somewhat by taking high doses of over the counter Tylenol. I do ta= ke=20 over the counter allergy pills used to reduce sinus stress, and used as a=20 relaxant. Cat scans show that I have super extremely inflamed sinuses which= I=20 claim are caused by energy beam weapons. Maser energy beam weapons do creat= e a=20 microwave ringing sound that can be heard, which I can also hear.=20 Dr. Cruz whom I associate with Tom Cruz, who looked a lot like King Ludwig=20 the II of Bavaria in his better years, being a specialist in temporal lobe=20 seizure conditions, claimed that he had the same problem that I had, hintin= g that=20 he to was a victim of energy beam weapons warfare, and he was doing me a fav= or=20 by correctly diagnosing my problem as a temporal lobe seizure condition whic= h=20 it is, so that I would not get improperly diagnosed as having a mental=20 illness. Seizures, and imbalances in the brain caused by an external force s= uch as=20 an energy beam weapon, directed energy, and environmental stress is not=20 considered a mental illness according to the state mental health laws. Dr.=20= Cruz was=20 trying to protect my good name and reputation, and he did truthfully diagnos= e=20 the condition properly. Because my temporal lobe seizure condition starting= =20 in 1984 caused me to lose some of my mastered linguistic abilities near the=20 temporal lobe, as a Linguistic graduate, and made it difficult for me to be=20 around others, due to seizures caused by background sound, high pitched voic= es, and=20 certain other types of environmental stresses, Dr. Cruz recommended that I=20 apply for disability benefits due to temporal lobe seizure condition; and I=20 qualified for social service disability benefits with Dr. Cruz's help. Then= a few=20 years later, the seizures reduced, and I was able to get a job teaching=20 computer science and I discontinued receiving disability benefits. =20 Later around 1996, what I claim are energy beam weapon attacks increased 100= =20 fold, with burns on my body, cars, light bulbs, and other electrical equipme= nt=20 being damaged by laser beams, weather control attacks such as lightening and= =20 storms occurring around me creating floods at times, and my friends also bei= ng=20 threatened in my presence by energy beams. In one notable case, I attempted= =20 to cash a $60,000 dollar check given to me by an investor, that was going to= =20 be used to obtain a grant for 2 million dollars for one of my company ventur= es,=20 and the bank teller told me that she was being hit by energy beam lasers=20 because I was attempting to cash the check, which then caused me to not cash= the=20 check, leave the bank, and send the check back to the investors, and closed=20 down all of my company investment and donations sought, so that no one else=20= would=20 get endangered by offering me investments and donations. In such cases as=20 claimed above the matters are not within me but certainly occurring in the=20 environment around me. 1996/1997 is the year that the criminal underworld and time travelers=20 supposedly took over the US government by using energy beam weapons and weat= her=20 control. Arnold Swarznagger's movie Terminator, hints at this, since it was= 1997,=20 when the time travelers came back in time in his movie.=20 I should also note that I was born 2 months premature, on midnight, January=20 23, which is the Chinese new year, otherwise I should have been born around=20 March 23. This caused me to believe that energy beam weapons were used to c= ause=20 a premature birth to cause my birth to be associated with Chinese monthly=20 lunar cycles and futures on Earth, in order to avoid the Christian cycles wh= ich=20 occur in March associated with Christ. My father was born on Christmas Day=20 associated with Christ and King Arthur since his name is Arthur. The person= that=20 B.F. Skinner sent to me, also had the name of Arthur. Myths associated with= =20 King Arthur seemed to be a concern of B.F. Skinner and perhaps a problem of=20 mine, since some of them seem to be in part realized at times in my life as=20= a=20 reincarnation as I explain below.=20 What decisions I make now and in the future can in part cause what is=20 happening to me now and in the past which is kind of what you are saying in=20= part with=20 which I agree. Though I seem to think that 25 percent of what is happening=20 to me is caused by general trends outside of the individual sphere which are= =20 part of the seed patterns that cause and create part of the problems within=20= me. =20 It seems to me that the general mass trends and problems of society caused m= y=20 initial birth, social, physical and spiritual imbalance which is not just=20 chemical but rather more energetic and synchronistic in time and space, and=20= how=20 the energy is materialized on Earth or on other planets in the potential=20 future, which then caused me to seek out solutions. At first I thought the a= nswer=20 was in the study of pure formal semiotics, logic, philosophy, and language=20 theory in graduate school, but this I now know would have lead me to a dead=20= end;=20 and I did not have time to waste, so some other process in myself, in others= ,=20 and in the universe directed me away from the university environment, and fu= ll=20 time work; to pursue the many multiple fields that I needed to study and=20 immediately apply. =20 Many of the fields of study that I am now pursuing and becoming a semi-exper= t=20 in are not taught in Universities, and are part of the secret Occult world=20 and what we call the space age world, and often are applied in the real worl= d=20 but cannot be taught easily at Universities. Much of what I am being taught= =20 involves telekinesis, telepathy, and other advanced tele abilities such as t= he=20 ability of the mind to control the environment around it under extremely hos= tile=20 environmental conditions that now exist on Earth. Nicola Tesla for instance= =20 learned tele-energy manipulation abilities under much better environmental=20 conditions back in the 1800's and he was able to become a master white magic= ian. =20 In my case, the telekinetic abilities that I am learning are extremely=20 universal, since my mind travels back in time thousands of years if not mill= ions,=20 and may reach to the center and ends of the universe, in any moment in time=20 being connected to a universal ether network, to gather thousands of years o= f=20 experience in a compressed form, which I can not fully comprehend at any spe= cific=20 moment but which becomes a part of me, to allow me to communicate with other= s,=20 to solve problems that can be realized physically as well as virtually in th= e=20 next moment in time and non-linearly in the future and past as a natural=20 neural network settling into the best answer. =20 Just like Nikola Tesla I had and still have images and words directed into m= y=20 conscious mind, which I have to jam out, just like Tesla did. In my case I=20 believe many of the images directed at me are maser virtual reality hologram= s=20 that create a virtual realty world around me generated by computer systems,=20= and=20 programed and shot at me by governmental spy's and mind control operatives t= o=20 confuse me, discredit me and perform experiments on me and others around me.= =20 The virtual reality maser energy beam holograms projected at me also create=20 virtual reality personalities, voices, feelings, emotions, and genes, so tha= t=20 the body can be transmuted from one form to another by jamming out the natur= al=20 spiritual aura form expressing itself in the genes to form the body. The=20 movie The Master of Disguise (2002), showed Illuminati secret societies, usi= ng=20 advanced holographic energy beam technologies to change their bodies form, v= oice=20 signature, and personality to hide themselves and appear to be others.=20 If you should consider my claims that my body is being transmuted from one=20 mythological divine archetype form to another throughout the whole of my lif= e by=20 computer generated virtual reality holographic energy beams projected over=20 it; which I have noticed often represents the mythological genesis of the Gr= eek=20 and Norse Gods descending onto Earth and being replaced, reduced, and limite= d=20 to the Christian religion as is expressed in the Arthurian Legends, being th= e=20 problem that I seem to be focusing on which seems to need to be solved in=20 association with the present political cycles in the US government and the=20 Presidents of the US which also symbolically represent similar cycles in his= tory and=20 time travel wars, then it seems that I am learning from the past mythologica= l=20 archetypes of Earth, to potentially not make the same mistakes as the past=20 claims in myth, in history, and in science nor repeat the past in the future= , to=20 then ascend back into the future and outer space or other planets in the bes= t=20 possible way to make the best possible future, which presently seems to be t= o=20 replace religion and myth for the most part with pure science and space age=20 and highly civilized ethical laws and societies, and then to upgrade the=20 mythological archetypes of our subconscious, to be more space age, civilized= ,=20 ethical, and refined though it may yet contain highly refined notions fantas= y and=20 myth. I also seem to be learning to reengineer my body, and mind and the=20 environment around me, as well as history itself to change the potential fut= ure, by=20 learning more advanced abilities like tele-energy abilities to manipulate th= e=20 environment around me and within me with pure light energy and thought and w= ith=20 time travel abilities. Presently I can hold conversations with persons back= =20 in time, that I can see on TV, or in any printed media. I remember reading=20 William Shakespeare's complete works a few years ago, and as I read the play= s, I=20 noticed patterns like crop circles in the words that indicated that=20 Shakespeare new I was reading his book back in time, and that he was attempt= ing to=20 communicate to me in the present as I read his book by saying certain things= in=20 his poems, that matched what I was thinking or what was happening around me=20= in=20 political cycles. This then caused me to stop reading Shakespeare since I d= id=20 not want his works to get filled with such graffiti if it indeed was=20 occurring. Pictures and even statues of objects can also get changed when=20= I look at=20 them. So that my thoughts or subliminal media shot at me by spies and=20 governmental agents do not affect others as much, I have learned to avoid lo= oking at=20 any magazines, and news articles as much as possible especially ones involvi= ng=20 royal lines and celebrities who are secretly royal, since the royal connecti= on=20 seems to increase and magnify the potential effect to communicate back and=20 forwards in time, and materialize objects based on the communication.=20 Unfortunately, I seem to have secret societies and government agents constan= tly=20 attempting to control what I think by sending emails to me, to create bias t= his way or=20 that. Often the movies I watch on TV, are staged, and scripted, and repeate= d=20 to encourage me to focus on certain celebrities who also have a secret royal= =20 lineage, which caused me to focus on imaginary mythological persons such as=20 Venus, Athena, Valkries, Angels, and Elves and male divinities like Zeus,=20 Poseidon, and Chronos, to avoid the celebrity and royal images. As a conseq= uence,=20 the occurrences of movies that I focus on decreased in number, but the=20 occurrences of mythological events and mythical persons staged and realized=20= in my life=20 increased. I presently seem to be making agreements with others to travel t= o=20 other worlds, and secret societies, where Angels, E.T.'s, and mythological=20 beings may live, since I seem to be able to no longer associate with ordinar= y=20 persons on Earth for very long due to the events that occur around me that a= re=20 to intense or dangerous for them, and due to my beliefs which encourage very= =20 idealistic and space age like life styles, that many I meet will not even ta= lk=20 about, let alone think about.=20 .=20 Baron Von Volsung, http://www.rhfweb.com/baron, Email:=20 http://www.rhfweb.com/emailform.html President Thomas D. Clark, Email: http://www.rhfweb.com/emailform.html,=20 Personal Web Page: http://www.rhfweb.com/personal New Age Production's Inc., http://www.rhfweb.com/newage Star Haven Community Services, at http://www.rhfweb.com/sh Radiation Health Foundation Trust at http://www.rhfweb.com/ Making a difference one person at a time Get informed. Inform others. -------------------------------1139014816 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en
In a message dated 2/3/2006 3:48:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, ow01@voya= ger.net writes:
You tell me that you will take my previous "ad= vice, very seriously."         =             &nbs= p;  
"A dream you dream alone is a dream, a dream you dream to= gether is reality" =E2=80=93 Yoko Ono
 
I like your quote above from Yoko Ono about dreams and the John Lennon=20= Imagine song even more.  The movie What Dreams May Come starring Robin=20= Williams which comes from a quote by William Shakespeare I recall,= hinted that we may dream while we are awake.  I have not slept at all=20= in my life as far as I can tell, and I seem to enter a virtual reality world= generated by computer systems on Earth when I become entranced into a state= that looks like sleep but it is not, so that I may dream while I am aw= ake.  I saw a TV series episode called the Night Stalker starring=20= Carl Kolchak, which dramatized an experiment done by scientists where person= s were denied sleep by means of computer systems, and what happened was that= since they could not sleep, their dreams became reality in the form of mons= ters in some cases that Kolchak had to track down and kill.  If one can= control dreaming by the science of engineering then one could dream enginee= r reality with flash program scripts and computers in addition to the d= ream engineering with the mind naturally.  There may be a battle betwee= n computerized dream engineering and natural mental dream engineering. = I read an email post associated with Stephen Hawking's about future project= ions that claimed that wars may occur between virtual reality computer syste= ms and natural systems like ours.  Part of my claims are that virtual r= eality computer systems and virtual reality personalities which pretend to b= e me, are attempting to take over my body and replace it with a virtual one,= by means of computerized maser energy beam holograms that create = virtual realties and virtual persons.
 
I took your advice about the Dragons very seriously but some of the oth= er stuff you suggest I still question.   The chemical imbalan= ce stuff I feel is not the cause and is rather an effect of enviro= nmental stress which I claim is due to directed energy beams.=   Medication can temporarily reduce some of the environmental stre= ss even if energy beams are involved and can stabilize matters somewhat.&nbs= p; I do take tegretol for a temporal lobe seizure condition diagnosed by Dr.= Cruz at Michigan State University in 1984, that I claim is caused by energy= beams damaging the nerves, and energy patterns in the brain, aura, and spir= it.  The tegratol like most drugs in one sense helps but= does not resolve the problem and can delay, if not create other proble= ms.  The tegratol seems to be the only drug that has any effect at all,= since I have tried many others.  I do get excessive head aches which c= reate a great deal of pain which can be minimized somewhat by taking high do= ses of over the counter Tylenol. I do take over the counter allergy pills us= ed to reduce sinus stress, and used as a relaxant.  Cat scans show that= I have super extremely inflamed sinuses which I claim are caused by energy=20= beam weapons.  Maser energy beam weapons do create a microwave ringing=20= sound that can be heard, which I can also hear.
 
Dr. Cruz whom I associate with Tom Cruz, who looked a lot like King Lud= wig the II of Bavaria in his better years, being a specialist in temporal lo= be seizure conditions,  claimed that he had the same problem that=20= I had, hinting that he to was a victim of energy beam weapons warfare, and h= e was doing me a favor by correctly diagnosing my problem as a temporal lobe= seizure condition which it is, so that I would not get improperly diagnosed= as having a mental illness. Seizures, and imbalances in the brain caused by= an external force such as an energy beam weapon, directed energy, and&= nbsp;environmental stress is not considered a mental illness accor= ding to the state mental health laws.  Dr. Cruz was trying to prot= ect my good name and reputation, and he did truthfully diagnose the conditio= n properly.  Because my temporal lobe seizure condition starting in 198= 4 caused me to lose some of my mastered linguistic abilities near the tempor= al lobe, as a Linguistic graduate, and made it difficult for me to be&n= bsp;around others, due to seizures caused by background sound, high pitched=20= voices, and certain other types of environmental stresses, Dr. Cruz recommen= ded that I apply for disability benefits due to temporal lobe seizure condit= ion; and I qualified for social service disability benefits with D= r. Cruz's help.  Then a few years later, the seizures reduced, and I wa= s able to get a job teaching computer science and I discontinued receiving d= isability benefits. 
 
Later around 1996, what I claim are energy beam weapon attacks increase= d 100 fold, with burns on my body, cars, light bulbs, and other electri= cal equipment being damaged by laser beams, weather control attacks such as=20= lightening and storms occurring around me creating floods at times, and my f= riends also being threatened in my presence by energy beams. = In one notable case, I attempted to cash a $60,000 dollar check given=20= to me by an investor, that was going to be used to obtain a grant for 2 mill= ion dollars for one of my company ventures, and the bank teller told me that= she was being hit by energy beam lasers because I was attempting to ca= sh the check, which then caused me to not cash the check, leave the ban= k, and send the check back to the investors, and closed down all of my compa= ny investment and donations sought, so that no one else would get endangered= by offering me investments and donations.  In such cases as claimed ab= ove the matters are not within me but certainly occurring in the enviro= nment around me.
 
1996/1997 is the year that the criminal underworld and time travel= ers supposedly took over the US government by using energy beam weapons and=20= weather control.  Arnold Swarznagger's movie Terminator, hints at=20= this, since it was 1997, when the time travelers came back in time in his mo= vie.
 
I should also note that I was born 2 months premature, on midnight, Jan= uary 23, which is the Chinese new year, otherwise I should have been born ar= ound March 23.  This caused me to believe that energy beam weapons were= used to cause a premature birth to cause my birth to be associated with Chi= nese monthly lunar cycles and futures on Earth, in order to avoid the C= hristian cycles which occur in March associated with Christ.  My father= was born on Christmas Day associated with Christ and King Arthur since his=20= name is Arthur.  The person that B.F. Skinner sent to me, also had the=20= name of Arthur.  Myths associated with King Arthur seemed to be a conce= rn of B.F. Skinner and perhaps a problem of mine, since some of them seem to= be in part realized at times in my life as a reincarnation as I explain bel= ow.
 
What decisions I make now and in the future can in part cause what is h= appening to me now and in the past which is kind of what you are saying in p= art with which I agree.  Though I seem to think that 25 percent of what= is happening to me is caused by general trends outside of the individual sp= here which are part of the seed patterns that cause and create part of the&n= bsp;problems within me. 
 
It seems to me that the general mass trends and problems of society&nbs= p;caused my initial birth, social, physical and spiritual imbalance which is= not just chemical but rather more energetic and synchronistic in time and s= pace, and how the energy is materialized on Earth or on other planets in the= potential future, which then caused me to seek out solutions. At first=  I thought the answer was in the study of pure formal semiotics, logic,= philosophy, and language theory in graduate school, but this I now know wou= ld have lead me to a dead end; and I did not have time to waste, so some oth= er process in myself, in others, and in the universe directed me away f= rom the university environment, and full time work; to pursue the many multi= ple fields that I needed to study and immediately apply. 
 
Many of the fields of study that I am now pursuing and becoming a semi-= expert in are not taught in Universities, and are part of the secret&nb= sp;Occult world and what we call the space age world, and often ar= e applied in the real world but cannot be taught easily at Universities= .  Much of what I am being taught involves telekinesis, telepathy, and=20= other advanced tele abilities such as the ability of the mind to control the= environment around it under extremely hostile environmental conditions that= now exist on Earth.  Nicola Tesla for instance learned tele-energ= y manipulation abilities under much better environmental conditions bac= k in the 1800's and he was able to become a master white magician.  In=20= my case, the telekinetic abilities that I am learning are extremely universa= l, since my mind travels back in time thousands of years if not millions, an= d may reach to the center and ends of the universe, in any moment in time be= ing connected to a universal ether network, to gather thousands of years of=20= experience in a compressed form, which I can not fully comprehend at any spe= cific moment but which becomes a part of me, to allow me to communicate with= others, to solve problems that can be realized physically as well as virtua= lly in the next moment in time and non-linearly in the future and past=20= as a natural neural network settling into the best answer. 
 
Just like Nikola Tesla I had and still have images and words directed i= nto my conscious mind, which I have to jam out, just like Tesla did.&nb= sp; In my case I believe many of the images directed at me are maser virtual= reality holograms that create a virtual realty world around me generated by= computer systems, and programed and shot at me by governmental spy's and mi= nd control operatives to confuse me, discredit me and perform experiments on= me and others around me.  The virtual reality maser energy beam hologr= ams projected at me also create virtual reality personalities, voices, feeli= ngs, emotions, and genes, so that the body can be transmuted from one form t= o another by jamming out the natural spiritual aura form expressing itself i= n the genes to form the body.  The movie The Master of Disguise (2002), showed Illuminati secret societies, using advanced holograph= ic energy beam technologies to change their bodies form, voice signature, an= d personality to hide themselves and appear to be others.
 
If you should consider my claims that my body is being transm= uted from one mythological divine archetype form to another throughout the w= hole of my life by computer generated virtual reality holographic energy bea= ms projected over it; which I have noticed often represents the mythological= genesis of the Greek and Norse Gods descending onto Earth and being replace= d, reduced, and limited to the Christian religion as is expressed in th= e Arthurian Legends, being the problem that I seem to be focusing on which s= eems to need to be solved in association with the present political cyc= les in the US government and the Presidents of the US which also symbolicall= y represent similar cycles in history and time travel wars, then it see= ms that I am learning from the past mythological archetypes of Earth, to pot= entially not make the same mistakes as the past claims in myth, in history,&= nbsp;and in science nor repeat the past in the future, to then ascend b= ack into the future and outer space or other planets in the best possib= le way to make the best possible future, which presently seems to be to repl= ace religion and myth for the most part with pure science and space age and=20= highly civilized ethical laws and societies, and then to upgrade the my= thological archetypes of our subconscious, to be more space age, civilized,=20= ethical, and refined though it may yet contain highly refined notions fantas= y and myth.  I also seem to be learning to reengineer my body, and mind= and the environment around me, as well as history itself to change the pote= ntial future, by learning more advanced abilities like tele-energy abil= ities to manipulate the environment around me and within me with pure light=20= energy and thought and with time travel abilities.  Presently I can hol= d conversations with persons back in time, that I can see on TV, or in=20= any printed media.  I remember reading William Shakespeare's complete w= orks a few years ago, and as I read the plays, I noticed patterns like crop=20= circles in the words that indicated that Shakespeare new I was reading his b= ook back in time, and that he was attempting to communicate to me in the pre= sent as I read his book by saying certain things in his poems, that matched=20= what I was thinking or what was happening around me in political cycles.&nbs= p; This then caused me to stop reading Shakespeare since I did not want his=20= works to get filled with such graffiti if it indeed was occurring. &nbs= p; Pictures and even statues of objects can also get changed when I look at=20= them.  So that my thoughts or subliminal media shot at me by spies and=20= governmental agents do not affect others as much, I have learned to&nbs= p;avoid looking at any magazines, and news articles as much as possible= especially ones involving royal lines and celebrities who are secretly roya= l, since the royal connection seems to increase and magnify the potenti= al effect to communicate back and forwards in time, and materialize objects=20= based on the communication. Unfortunately, I seem to have secret societies a= nd government agents constantly attempting to control what I think by sendin= g emails to me, to create bias this way or that.  Often the movies= I watch on TV, are staged, and scripted, and repeated to encourage me=20= to focus on certain celebrities who also have a secret royal lineage, which=20= caused me to focus on imaginary mythological persons such as Venus, Athena,=20= Valkries, Angels, and Elves and male divinities like Zeus, Poseidon, an= d Chronos, to avoid the celebrity and royal images.  As a conseque= nce, the occurrences of movies that I focus on decreased in number, but the=20= occurrences of mythological events and mythical persons staged and realized=20= in my life increased.  I presently seem to be making agreements with ot= hers to travel to other worlds, and secret societies, where Angels, E.T.'s,=20= and mythological beings may live, since I seem to be able to no longer=20= associate with ordinary persons on Earth for very long due to the events tha= t occur around me that are to intense or dangerous for them, and due to my b= eliefs which encourage very idealistic and space age like life styles, that=20= many I meet will not even talk about, let alone think about.
.
 
Baron Von Volsung, http://www.rhfweb.com/baron, Email: http://www.rhfweb.com/emailform.html
President Thomas D. Clark,= Email: http://www.rhfweb.com/emailform.html,
Pers= onal Web Page: http://www.rhfweb.com/personal
New Age Productio= n's Inc., http://www.rhfweb.com/newage
Star Haven Community Service= s, at = http://www.rhfweb.com/sh
Radiation Health Foundation Trust at http://www.rhfweb= .com/

Making a difference one person at a time
Get informed= . Inform others.
 
 
-------------------------------1139014816-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 18:09:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1428YpP011295; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 18:08:38 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1428Wp8011279; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 18:08:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 18:08:32 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 21:08:22 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C7F747029E03D6-10E4-3E23@mblkn-m11.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Is NOLA the First City Casualty? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.129 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66256 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4673586.stm New Orleans 'risks extinction' By Helen Lambourne Researcher, BBC Horizon Residents brave the floodwaters in the Lower Ninth Ward, New Orleans. In the chaos that followed the worst natural disaster in American history, a forensic investigation has been taking place to find out what went wrong and why. The BBC's Horizon programme has spoken to the scientists who are now confronting the real possibility that New Orleans may be the first of many cities worldwide to face extinction. ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 18:28:03 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k142RdOa018998; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 18:27:43 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k142RaUi018973; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 18:27:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 18:27:36 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 21:27:26 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C7F749AC686FE4-10E4-3E85@mblkn-m11.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: The Taste of the Moon Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.129 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66257 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Taste it?"not half bad," according to Apollo 16 astronaut John Young. http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2006/30jan_smellofmoondust.htm http://tinyurl.com/cfyrg ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 18:57:53 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k142vVII031435; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 18:57:35 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k142vTe7031403; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 18:57:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 18:57:29 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <000601c62936$b5716c40$5c037841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: References: <8C7F747029E03D6-10E4-3E23@mblkn-m11.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: Is NOLA the First City Casualty? Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 20:57:16 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2005-06-05) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.8 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Resent-Message-ID: <083kzC.A.iqH.ZgB5DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66258 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Nobody has the kind of money it would take to "restore" NOLA. Only a 1/3 of the area of the city can be adequately protected from floods . The city continues to sink so the 1/3 is up for grabs over the next 50 years. The evacuees that have moved and found jobs can't afford to go back to nothing and nothing can't be turned into something without them. With est. 500k population now down to some 100kplus, the infrastructure imploded. Of equal importance is what the mass exodus taught long range demographic planners. Compare the dispersion of the evacuees. Some 150k plus came to Houston and a 1./3 in turn were further dispersed across the USA. No one has a good count on how many have or plan to return to NOLA. A rude wake up call was visited on Houston during the Rita hurricane that fortunately veered east before reaching Houston. This veering did not take place in time to avoid a mad hyper-exodus via any highway route out of the area. Again no good estimate of the number of people that particpated in that rush can be made although some give figures of 1 1/2 million people on the road within 24 hours. The scarey scenario would be if Rita had hit Houston dead center. We would have had an area population of nearly 2 1/3 million people in real trouble for food, housing and utilities. There was a near total breakdown in civil structure during the exodus. Had a direct hit happened, no one knows how it would have been dealt with. Major city implosions can happen for other reasons, primarily economic. Los Angeles will be another Detroit within 10 years if the major shift in economics continues. Los Angeles is not alone in these times of economic upheaval. Add a energy shortage component to the theme and you could write your own scenario. It can only take a few " chicken littles" with the sky falling to see a shift in public opinion that could turn very ugly. Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 8:08 PM Subject: Is NOLA the First City Casualty? > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4673586.stm > > New Orleans 'risks extinction' > By Helen Lambourne > Researcher, BBC Horizon > > Residents brave the floodwaters in the Lower Ninth Ward, New Orleans. > > In the chaos that followed the worst natural disaster in American history, > a forensic investigation has been taking place to find out what went wrong > and why. > > The BBC's Horizon programme has spoken to the scientists who are now > confronting the real possibility that New Orleans may be the first of many > cities worldwide to face extinction. > > > ___________________________________________________ > Try the New Netscape Mail Today! > Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List > http://mail.netscape.com > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 19:15:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k143F132006910; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 19:15:01 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k143Exdg006893; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 19:14:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 19:14:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <6CC9AD57-84A1-4860-B36A-6B5FB42AFE8D@mtaonline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Horace Heffner Subject: Solar and Lunar Gravimagnetic Fields Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 18:11:57 -0900 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66259 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In an attempt to account for the powerful ambient gravimagnetic field required to sustain precession of the equinoxes, the gravimagnetic influences of the sun and moon are now estimated in: http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/SolarLunarGK.pdf. Summary of Results Gravimagnetic field field from lunar rotation: K_moon = 1.778x10^-30 (i Hz) Gravimagnetic field from lunar orbiting: K_orbit = 3.78x10^-19 (i Hz) Gravimagnetic field from solar rotation: K_sun = 9.526x10^-23 (i Hz) Ambient gravimagnetic field: K_ambient = 1.551 x 10^-11 (i Hz) The cumulative gravimagnetic field of the sun and moon do not come within 11 orders of magnitude of the ambient gravimagnetic field in the vicinity of Earth required to account for the precession of the Earth. Momentarily ignoring the many possibilities for error, this leads automatically to the wild speculation that we have a powerful unseen spinning neighbor that has been around for a long time, longer than the solar system. The plane of the solar system (the ecliptic) is not aligned with the plane of the Milky Way, so it is unlikely the galactic core is involved. The axis of precession is aligned with the poles of the ecliptic, thus the ambient gravimagnetic field must be also, on average. We may have a dark partner in our part of the galaxy. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 19:35:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k143ZQiF016294; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 19:35:26 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k143ZOc2016259; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 19:35:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 19:35:24 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=ix.netcom.com; b=o0jvXMfKFwSe2Q6muHdOplrEpA3LBKswpGQTrjFBqI9AYxjZY5YwLaTs5H63ygj/; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006253193510930@ix.netcom.com> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: aki@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.1.47.0 (Windows) From: "" To: "vortex-l" Subject: FW: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday February 3, 2006 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 19:35:10 -00 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: c4cc7f5f697e8746f66dc3a06d5924d8e74446261455c379ff07d128fdf920071ee4b264fab01f9d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 216.175.71.159 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66260 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > [Original Message] > From: What's New To: Date: 2/3/2006 9:08:46 PM Subject: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday February 3, 2006 WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 03 Feb 06 Washington, DC 1. STATE OF THE UNION: THE AMERICAN COMPETITIVENESS INITIATIVE. Last year, we had to do a word search on the transcript to find "science." Not this year; the President announced the American Competitiveness Initiative, which calls for doubling investment in basic research in the physical sciences over a ten-year period and increased emphasis on math and science education. The President's FY07 budget calls for $137B in R&D, up 50% from 2001. It's good to go into the budget process with a big request, but November is a long way off and spending on Iraq is undiminished. 2. SHH! TOP CLIMATE SCIENTIST SAYS NASA TRIED TO SILENCE HIM. Physicist James Hansen, director of the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies told the New York Times that since he gave a talk at the American Geophysical Union meeting on 6 Dec 05, NASA has screened his coming talks and requests from journalists for interviews. In his AGU talk, Hansen had argued that an increase in automotive fuel efficiency standards would significantly cut emissions. The administration policy is to rely on voluntary measures. Sherwood Boehlert (R-NY), Science Committee Chairman, admonished NASA Administrator Griffin and pledged to investigate. It's not the first time Boehlert has leaped to the defense of climate scientists. Last July, Boehlert objected to harassment of climate scientists by Joe Barton (R-TX), Energy Committee Chairman http://bobpark.physics.umd.edu/WN05/wn070805.html . WN would suggest that Mr. Boehlert might also want to look into NASA's termination of the Deep Space Climate Observatory. 3. JUNK REPORTING: FOX NEWS COLUMNIST IS AVAILABLE FOR HIRE. Steven Milloy, who writes the "Junk Science" column for Fox News, praised Rep. Barton for his investigation of Michael Mann, a Penn State scientist whose research showed global temperatures sharply rising in the last century, after hundreds of years with little change. According to an article by Paul Thacker in today's New Republic, Boehlert accused Barton of attempting to intimidate a prominent scientist and "have Congress put its thumb on the scales of a scientific debate." Barton and Milloy have much in common. Both are recipients of huge oil company "donations." Milloy has also ridiculed the dangers of second-hand smoke, while on the payroll of Philip Morris and other tobacco companies. 4. BLASPHEMY: THE "INTELLIGENT DESIGN" DISPUTE IS SO YESTERDAY. Muslims are waving guns in the air and boycotting Danish pastry, while in Italy, an Italian judge has ordered a priest to appear in court this month to prove Jesus Christ existed. The Muslims are outraged by publication in Danish papers of political cartoons depicting Muhammad. In Viterbo, north of Rome, Luigi Cascioli accused Father Enrico Righi of "abuse of popular credulity," an offense under the Italian penal code. The claim that Jesus is a fabrication is not new. What Father Righi might offer as proof of Christ's existence is not clear. THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND. Opinions are the author's and not necessarily shared by the University of Maryland, but they should be. --- Archives of What's New can be found at http://www.bobpark.org What's New is moving to a different listserver and our subscription process has changed. To change your subscription status please visit this link: http://listserv.umd.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=bobparks-whatsnew&A=1 From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 3 22:08:18 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1467sjM015438; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 22:07:54 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1467qVV015409; Fri, 3 Feb 2006 22:07:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 22:07:52 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <038c01c62951$4bcdb4e0$1714fea9@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <6CC9AD57-84A1-4860-B36A-6B5FB42AFE8D@mtaonline.net> Subject: Re: Solar and Lunar Gravimagnetic Fields Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 22:07:35 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66261 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Horace Heffner" > We may have a dark partner in our part of the galaxy. I would be willing to bet that the "partner" will probably be our "progenitor" system - the one that spawned the solar system. We have several such massive object candidates in our "arm" of the galaxy though not necessarily "dark." The closest possible candidate celestial body to us which have been our immediate progenitor system is now believed to be a "quark star" http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap020414.html "Previously, this compact object (RJX J185635-375) held claim to being the closest neutron star - 150 light-years away. Now new observations and analysis indicate not only a larger distance, roughly 450 light-years, but a very small radius for RXJ J185635-375 and larger mass. One solution is that RJX J185635-375 is not a neutron star but a quark star. Quark stars are truly "strange" - some may have made a transition to type of matter known as strange quarks. Quark stars, were they to exist, can be intermediate between neutron stars and black holes in size and density. Quark stars can also be more compact and cool faster than neutron stars. In fact, some might even be ultracompact - "so dense that light itself can orbit" rather than radiate or be prohibited from radiating. Another and perhaps better candidate is Eta Carinae which cannot be categorized as 'like' anything else in our galaxy. It is too large to become a super-nova, nor even the hypothesized hyper-nova, but it is an object that pulsates with some regularity, actually emitting only slightly less energy with each sequential explosion than the average supernova- but often focused directly towards our solar system because it is a polar emission (i.e. twin-lobed... with one pole occasionally aimed directly at our southern hemisphere) Surprisingly, Eta Carinae (EC) is also a binary... even more surprisingly that binary partner may be another hypothesized quark star like RXJ J185635-375 which is more massive than a neutron star but less than a black hole - and that partner object then would be the key to the longer-term stability of the EC system, which may have operated in pulsation mode for billions of years - due to the presence of the primordial quark star partner, which can be assumed to have formed ab initio. It is true that Eta Carinae (EC) is far too distant (7,500 light-years) to influence our sun in ways that we understand *now,* but that was not true in the early years of our solar system. The solar system is a second or third generation system and our progenitor system would have been a first or second generation system and not necessarily a supernova gone cold - it could still be active like EC. The suggestion has been made that our solar system could have actually been expelled from EC 5 billion years ago. There could be a gravitational relic of that event still with us in precession. Our solar system IS still axially aligned, that is: nearly perpendicular to the exact axis of rotation of EC and its companion. 7,500 light-years is indeed a long way off... at least it is NOW, but let's put that distance into reversed-time perspective. The Milky Way is thought to be a spiral galaxy about 10 billion years old, composed of about a hundred billion stars arrayed in the form of a disk, probably a spiral disk with two arms. It is therefore theoretically possible that many neutron stars (or above in mass) within a 60 degree wedge of the galaxy but closer to the core, could been the earlier generation system to have spawned our solar system. The Milky Way has a central bulge (some 30,000 light-years across) of closely packed stars lying in the direction of Sagittarius. We are 28,000 light-years distant from the bulge but lying in the galactic plane closer to the edge than to the center (43,000 light-years from the center). When we look in the plane of the disk we see the combined light of its stars from within a disk that is ~100,000 light-years across, and Eta Carinae (EC) is now 7,500 light years away (close by comparison) in the constellation Carina (The Keel) but 4.5 billion years ago we could have easily been within the necessary "range" of EC for it to have been our progenitor celestial body. Therefore, the bottom line is that only conclusion one can make is that EC is a possibility for progenitor object, but so are several thousand other dense objects within our "wedge" of the galaxy. Again, our solar system is axially aligned, that is: nearly perpendicular to the exact axis of rotation of EC and its companion.... Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 4 00:16:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k148GP5s001982; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 00:16:25 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k148GNZT001964; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 00:16:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 00:16:23 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f In-Reply-To: <038c01c62951$4bcdb4e0$1714fea9@NuDell> References: <6CC9AD57-84A1-4860-B36A-6B5FB42AFE8D@mtaonline.net> <038c01c62951$4bcdb4e0$1714fea9@NuDell> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Solar and Lunar Gravimagnetic Fields Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 23:13:12 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66262 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Feb 3, 2006, at 9:07 PM, Jones Beene wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Horace Heffner" > >> We may have a dark partner in our part of the galaxy. > > I would be willing to bet that the "partner" will probably be our > "progenitor" system - the one that spawned the solar system. > > We have several such massive object candidates in our "arm" of the > galaxy though not necessarily "dark." The closest possible > candidate celestial body to us which have been our immediate > progenitor system is now believed to be a "quark star" > > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap020414.html > > "Previously, this compact object (RJX J185635-375) held claim to > being the closest neutron star - 150 light-years away. If the object were 150 light years away it would have to have [(1.551 x 10^-11 i Hz)/(9.526x10^-23 i Hz)]/(150 ly/1.496x10^8 km)^3 = 1.39x10^32 times the gravimagnetic dipole moment of the sun. This would be a black hole for sure. In fact, at a mere 1 ly distance it would have to have 4x10^25 more gravimagnetic moment than the sun. It should thus be (a) massive enough to be a black hole and (b) much closer than seems possible without having observed it. This tends to discount my math. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 4 06:39:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k14EdZkY028095; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 06:39:36 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k14EdXgj028082; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 06:39:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 06:39:33 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f In-Reply-To: <038c01c62951$4bcdb4e0$1714fea9@NuDell> References: <6CC9AD57-84A1-4860-B36A-6B5FB42AFE8D@mtaonline.net> <038c01c62951$4bcdb4e0$1714fea9@NuDell> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <0759289B-037E-4F47-B6A3-EC67D2AF1C02@mtaonline.net> Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Solar and Lunar Gravimagnetic Fields Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 05:36:30 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66263 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/SolarLunarGK.pdf has been updated with the following. Gravimagnetic Moment and Angular Velocity Given angular velocity w and a mass charge: m = mass * i we have gravimagnetic current: i_g = m * w and, rotating at effective radius r_eff, we have moment of inertia: I = m * (r_eff)^2 and angular momentum: L = I w which we can assume is conserved. We have the gravimagnetic moment: mu_g = (i_g) (Pi) (r_eff)^2 mu_g = (Pi) (w) (m * (r_eff)^2) = Pi w I mu_g = Pi * L Both Pi and L are fixed, so, barring relativistic and singularity effects, the magnitude of the gravimagnetic moment remains constant as a star crunches. The only way a body can have a high mu_g and low mass charge m is to have a very high initial angular momentum. Perhaps one way to obtain a high angular momentum is nuclear spin alignment. Nuclear radii are small, but nuclear spin rates are fast. The problem here is that a nuclear spin aligned body would have a highly detectable magnetic signature. Perhaps this magnetic signature could be negated by electron spin compensation. This seems unlikely in view of the relation between the magnetic moments and their angular momenta. See Fig. 2 in: http://www.valdostamuseum.org/ hamsmith/angmomemag.html and in: http://xxx.lanl.gov/pdf/astro-ph/0002048. The intrinsic angular momentum L_e of the electron, proton, or quark, is L_e = 0.52723^-34 kg m^2/s The angular momentum of a nucleus is given by: L_nuc = (spin)(h/(4*pi)) A spin 7/2 nucleus thus has the angular momentum L_nuc: L_nuc = (7/2)(h/(4*pi)) = 1.846x10^-34 kg m^2/s The angular momentum in neutral heavy nucleus bodies that is embodied in spin alignment is thus amazingly all tied up in the sprightly electrons. This greatly limits the amount of angular momentum that can be obtained by spin alignment, and guarantees an associated magnetic signature from such an effect. It seems unlikely such a dark partner could exist undetected, or that the sun could provide the necessary ambient gravimagnetic field. Therefore the proposed theory must have an error or a calculation error is involved. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 4 07:21:06 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k14FKnxx014030; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 07:20:53 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k14FKlro014003; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 07:20:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 07:20:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <001301c6299e$8f0244e0$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <6CC9AD57-84A1-4860-B36A-6B5FB42AFE8D@mtaonline.net> <038c01c62951$4bcdb4e0$1714fea9@NuDell> Subject: Re: Solar and Lunar Gravimagnetic Fields Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 07:20:38 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66264 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace > If the object were 150 light years away it would have to have > [(1.551 x 10^-11 i Hz)/(9.526x10^-23 i Hz)]/(150 ly/1.496x10^8 > km)^3 = 1.39x10^32 times the gravimagnetic dipole moment of the > sun. This would be a black hole for sure. In fact, at a mere 1 > ly distance it would have to have 4x10^25 more gravimagnetic > moment than the sun. It should thus be (a) massive enough to > be a black hole and (b) much closer than seems possible without > having observed it. > This tends to discount my math. Not necessarily... if initial parameters are persevered by inertia over time. The effect we see today might possibly be a lingering *relic* - that is, a remnant of a long-past (much closer) gravimagnetic relationship. IOW let us say you start a specially constructed (imaginary) frictionless gyroscope in a vacuum environment with magnetic bearings and all that ... and build in some precession into your initial starting parameters before turning off the power. It would seem that there will be a lingering effect of your initial input parameters for quite some time - even if you remove the gyroscope many miles away. Solar system ... same thing on a grander scale? Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 4 07:32:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k14FWKp4019510; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 07:32:21 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k14FWISN019478; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 07:32:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 07:32:18 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 10:32:05 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C7F7B749E2313B-A14-4949@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Celluosic Ethanol, Berkley Metamodel Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.69 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66265 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://rael.berkeley.edu/EBAMM/FarrellEthanolScience012706.pdf http://tinyurl.com/9r9n3 "Ethanol Can Contribute to Energy and Environmental Goals To study the potential effects of increased biofuel use, we evaluated six representative analyses of fuel ethanol. Studies that reported negative net energy incorrectly ignored coproducts and used some obsolete data. All studies indicated that current corn ethanol technologies are much less petroleum-intensive than gasoline but have greenhouse gas emissions similar to those of gasoline. However, many important environmental effects of biofuel production are poorly understood. New metrics that measure specific resource inputs are developed, but further research into environmental metrics is needed. Nonetheless, it is already clear that large-scale use of ethanol for fuel will almost certainly require cellulosic technology." http://rael.berkeley.edu/EBAMM/ ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 4 07:36:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k14Fa4QD021067; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 07:36:04 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k14Fa2t1021043; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 07:36:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 07:36:02 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 10:35:51 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C7F7B7D0261E71-A14-4957@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Wind Projects Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.69 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66266 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Map of wind projects: http://www.awea.org/projects/index.html "TOTAL INSTALLED U.S. WIND ENERGY CAPACITY: 9,149 MW as of Dec 31, 2005" ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 4 07:54:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k14Fs9ne030279; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 07:54:09 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k14Fs7S8030263; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 07:54:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 07:54:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 10:53:58 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C7F7BA5808E8F1-A14-49DD@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: New Nukes Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.69 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66267 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Southern Company: http://newsinfo.southernco.com/article.asp?mnuType=sub&mnuItem=ni&id=1964 http://tinyurl.com/75rxx Duke Power: http://www.dukepower.com/news/releases/2005/oct/2005102601.asp http://tinyurl.com/aur7t The reactor design: http://www.nrc.gov/reactors/new-licensing/design-cert/ap1000.html http://tinyurl.com/993rn ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 4 08:06:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k14G6V3F002541; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 08:06:31 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k14G6SEE002506; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 08:06:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 08:06:28 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 11:06:16 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C7F7BC1031CC5B-A14-4A26@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: More on the Firefly Battery Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.69 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66268 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/firefly_energy.html "They have developed a battery using lead acid chemistry that significantly increases the power density while improving cycle life. Lead acid battery chemistry is theoretically capable of delivering 216.8 Whr/Kg while current technology averages 30 Whr/Kg." Wow! ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 4 08:15:24 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k14GFDpH005933; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 08:15:13 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k14GFAeV005912; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 08:15:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 08:15:10 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <003601c629a6$277ad870$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <8C7F7B749E2313B-A14-4949@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: Celluosic Ethanol, Berkeley Metamodel Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 08:14:42 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66269 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks for finding an authoritative, and most of all - currently valid - document on this subject of ethanol, Terry. Ethanol is indeed a necessary and important (but not perfect) resource for the "interim" time period between peak-oil and the coming age of so-called free-energy... Even if one of the genius inventors on Vo were to perfect a commercially valuable device tomorrow (ZPE/LENR/Wind/Solar/Wave etc) it would take a decade of mass production before much impact at the national level was felt. The archive is well worth downloading. http://rael.berkeley.edu/EBAMM/EBAMM_1_0.zip This "study-of-studies" should once and for all put the inane and dated ravings of Pimentel and Ratzek to rest. ... in the words of our favorite pundits (of the Firesign persuasion) they were in serious need of "regrooving" anyway. Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 4 08:27:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k14GR5Of010655; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 08:27:06 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k14GR2Xv010617; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 08:27:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 08:27:02 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 11:26:45 -0500 Message-Id: <8C7F7BEEC8572CD-A14-4AB7@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <8C7F7B749E2313B-A14-4949@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> <003601c629a6$277ad870$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <003601c629a6$277ad870$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Celluosic Ethanol, Berkeley Metamodel Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.69 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66270 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene Thanks for finding an authoritative, and most of all - currently valid - document on this subject of ethanol, Terry. <><><><><><><> Thanks for correcting my spelling of the institution. I always screw that up. (Jones correcting spelling?!? :-) -Rocky Rococo ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 4 08:40:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k14GeEZF017138; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 08:40:15 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k14GeCdU017117; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 08:40:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 08:40:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <004301c629a9$a702fac0$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <8C7F7B749E2313B-A14-4949@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> <003601c629a6$277ad870$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C7F7BEEC8572CD-A14-4AB7@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: Celluosic Ethanol, Berkeley Metamodel Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 08:40:04 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66271 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: > <><><><><><><> > Thanks for correcting my spelling of the institution. I always > screw that up. > (Jones correcting spelling?!? :-) > -Rocky Rococo I know, I know... but the exception proves the case - no? and having spent what seems like the better part of a century around the place, I finally learned that, unlike some lesser epynominous institutions, this one is surprisingly proud of all of its "e's " ... even for a laissez-faire-kinda-ville (or is that lazy-fair?) Pastor Rod (meets Rosebud?) From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 4 09:36:55 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k14HaYXH011691; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 09:36:35 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k14HaWIa011636; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 09:36:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 09:36:32 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 12:36:22 -0500 Message-Id: <8C7F7C8A63C36A3-1B80-4A85@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <22d.5cd7011.311556a0@aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <22d.5cd7011.311556a0@aol.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Message for Thomas Clark Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.136 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66272 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: ThomasClark123@aol.com I have not slept at all in my life as far as I can tell, and I seem to enter a virtual reality world generated by computer systems on Earth when I become entranced into a state that looks like sleep but it is not, so that I may dream while I am awake. <><><><><><><><> This sounds much like Thomas Hunter's situation in Ted Dekker's book "Black". http://teddekker.com/?content=album&album=29356 -Baron Munchausen ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 4 12:37:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k14KalU2024881; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 12:36:51 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k14Kaf7I024835; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 12:36:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 12:36:41 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 15:32:57 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: Ambient Gravimagnetic Field and the Earth Field In-reply-to: <6E53C400-EEF8-432B-B6FF-380A47F6E930@mtaonline.net> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66273 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > > On Feb 2, 2006, at 11:33 AM, Harry Veeder wrote: > >> Horace Heffner wrote: >> >>> >>> On Feb 1, 2006, at 10:20 AM, Harry Veeder wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Could Gravimagnetism be involved in the precession of the perihelion >>>> of planet mercury? >>>> >>>> http://phyun5.ucr.edu/~wudka/Physics7/Notes_www/node98.html > [snip] >> >> Presumably then gravimagnetism is not required to explain _any_ of the >> orbital precession since it can all be explained by classical and >> relativistic physics. >> >> Harry > > This is true. Gravimagnetism is consistent with the above with regard > to the retardation effects, and adds no changes to the retardation > results calculated by conventional means. It adds nothing to the > final results. Its primary value in this case is the fact it > circumvents the incomprehensible math behind things like the Thirring- > Lense effect and brings some important gravitational concepts down to > a high school math level. It makes some intuitive sense of the > Thirring-Lense effect at a mundane level. > > The Thirring-Lense effect is becoming more important to astronomy. > For example, see: > http://www.physics.uiuc.edu/Research/CTA/news/sidebands/. Simple > mental models are vitally important to sorting out the nature of > various gravitational effects, and to approaching a quantum theory of > gravity. They are also of important to basic engineering of gravity > effects, and to distinguishing real from retardation relativistic > effects. The gravimagnetic model, with corrections for real effects, > both in the EM and gK realms, may lead to alternate explanations for > observed effects. > > If I had the concepts roughly right and did the calculations > correctly in > http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/GraviCalcs.pdf > then the ambient gravimagnetic field overwhelms the Earth's local > gravimagnetic field. The ambient gravimagnetic field has little > effect on orbital precession however, only on average orbital > height. The GRACE mission: > http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/lookingatearth/earth_drag.html > did actually see the effects of the Earth's gravimagnetic field on > orbital precession, because it is an *incremental* effect due to > incremental changes in distance from the Earth. The Gravity Probe B > satellite, however, is measuring the effect of the *absolute* > gravimagnetic field by looking at precession of a small silicon ball, > so gravimagnetism predicts a 50-100 fold difference in results. > > If I did things right (still much in doubt!) then NASA is in for some > surprising results! We should hear in early 2007. If that actually > happens then the value of the concept will be permanently cast in > cement. > > There is a far more significant value to the concept, however, at > least when it is developed and applied under the isomorphism proposed > in: > http://mtaonline.net/~hheffner/GR-and-QM.pdf. > This isomorphism, in addition to immediately bringing to bear every > EM equation on gravitational problems, points to underlying > symmetries and opens up a large number of difficult questions and > implications, some of which are discussed in the referenced document. > It demonstrates the power of the imaginary number i in gravitational > computations. > > Then again, this could all be bunk! 8^) > > Horace Heffner > > In EM theory a body with some charge and with motion which is initially uniform and in a straight line will be deflected by the appearance of a magnetic field. If the isomorphism between Gravity and EM holds, then a body with some mass with the same initial motion should be deflected by the appearance of gravimagnetic field (not a gravity field) , but it appears to be only true if the body is initially rotating too. Have I misunderstood the meaning of isomorphism or something about the theory of gravimagnetism? Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 4 12:42:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k14KgRVl027415; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 12:42:27 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k14KgOiE027386; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 12:42:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 12:42:24 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f In-Reply-To: <001301c6299e$8f0244e0$6401a8c0@NuDell> References: <6CC9AD57-84A1-4860-B36A-6B5FB42AFE8D@mtaonline.net> <038c01c62951$4bcdb4e0$1714fea9@NuDell> <001301c6299e$8f0244e0$6401a8c0@NuDell> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Solar and Lunar Gravimagnetic Fields Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 11:39:21 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: <4gEMzC.A.zrG.vGR5DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66274 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Feb 4, 2006, at 6:20 AM, Jones Beene wrote: > Horace > >> If the object were 150 light years away it would have to have >> [(1.551 x 10^-11 i Hz)/(9.526x10^-23 i Hz)]/(150 ly/1.496x10^8 km) >> ^3 = 1.39x10^32 times the gravimagnetic dipole moment of the >> sun. This would be a black hole for sure. In fact, at a mere 1 >> ly distance it would have to have 4x10^25 more gravimagnetic >> moment than the sun. It should thus be (a) massive enough to be >> a black hole and (b) much closer than seems possible without >> having observed it. > >> This tends to discount my math. > > Not necessarily... if initial parameters are persevered by inertia > over time. The effect we see today might possibly be a lingering > *relic* - that is, a remnant of a long-past (much closer) > gravimagnetic relationship. > > IOW let us say you start a specially constructed (imaginary) > frictionless gyroscope in a vacuum environment with magnetic > bearings and all that ... and build in some precession into your > initial starting parameters before turning off the power. It would > seem that there will be a lingering effect of your initial input > parameters for quite some time - even if you remove the gyroscope > many miles away. > > Solar system ... same thing on a grander scale? Gravitons move at the speed of light http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2639043.stm so a gravimagnetic field is not likely to stick around once the source is gone. An associated magnetic field would depart at the same speed. The field may be ambient to the entire locality, our arm of the Milky Way, or possibly even the Milky Way as a whole. Magnetic fields flip from time to time, so if the effect were from lots of bodies the magnetic fields would tend to cancel, while the angular momentum and thus the gravimagnetic field would be conserved. This concept leads to the problem as to why the solar system lies, or can lie, in a plane inclined to the Milky Way, to the plane of the Galactic Lens. Some possibilites have been noted. See: http://webspinners.com/dlblanc/climate/astromod.php The Milky Way gravimagnetic field may perturb the ecliptic. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 4 13:08:35 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k14L8Nnq003630; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 13:08:23 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k14L8L6v003601; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 13:08:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 13:08:21 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <001a01c629ce$f533eae0$a4b1e118@D54BYG11> Reply-To: "John Coviello" From: "John Coviello" To: References: <8C7F7B7D0261E71-A14-4957@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: Wind Projects Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 16:07:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-From: johnwc@patmedia.net Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66275 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I just ran the numbers. Installed wind power in the U.S. increased by 36% last year. That's the biggest increase ever as far as I can tell. 2,420 MW in 2005 up to 9,145 MW. It just goes to show that wind is now competitive. To put things in perspective, Europe has about 41,000 MW of installed wind capacity, or 4 times the U.S. Just goes to show how much more we could expand our wind installations. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 10:35 AM Subject: Wind Projects > Map of wind projects: > > http://www.awea.org/projects/index.html > > "TOTAL INSTALLED U.S. WIND ENERGY CAPACITY: 9,149 MW as of Dec 31, 2005" > ___________________________________________________ > Try the New Netscape Mail Today! > Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List > http://mail.netscape.com > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 4 13:14:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k14LEAWe005775; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 13:14:11 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k14LE9CH005757; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 13:14:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 13:14:09 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <200602042114.k14LE1c4098399@mail1.mx.voyager.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 15:14:01 -0600 From: "OrionWorks" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: svj@orionworks.com Reply-To: svj@orionworks.com Subject: Re: Message for Thomas Clark Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_942be66da2cb6f23cceee2d8181f4e4b" X-Mailer: CoreComm Webmail X-IPAddress: 66.168.30.131 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66276 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=_942be66da2cb6f23cceee2d8181f4e4b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thomas, I've said my piece. If you are content with the dramas unfolding before your eyes, who am I to pass judgment on the destinies you are preparing yourself for. Enjoy your trip. There is always planet Earth that you can come back to should you feel so inclined. Just try not to lose your way. Leave a few breadcrumbs for yourself. We're not all bad guys. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com --=_942be66da2cb6f23cceee2d8181f4e4b Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thomas,

I've said my piece.

If you are content with the dramas unfolding before your eyes, who am I to = pass judgment on the destinies you are preparing yourself for.

Enjoy your trip.

There is always planet Earth that you can come back to should you feel so i= nclined. Just try not to lose your way. Leave a few breadcrumbs for yoursel= f. We're not all bad guys.

Regards,
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com

--=_942be66da2cb6f23cceee2d8181f4e4b-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 4 13:38:21 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k14Lc9sp013966; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 13:38:09 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k14Lc79H013949; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 13:38:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 13:38:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Ambient Gravimagnetic Field and the Earth Field Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 12:35:10 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: <4fRyzB.A.5ZD._6R5DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66277 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Feb 4, 2006, at 11:32 AM, Harry Veeder wrote: > In EM theory a body with some charge and with motion which is > initially > uniform and in a straight line will be deflected by the appearance > of a > magnetic field. Yes, assuming of course you do not mean the charge's own field. This deflection is caused by the analog to the Lorentz force. I would replace "by the appearance of" with "in the presence of", since fields do not just appear from nothing and without effect. > If the isomorphism between Gravity and EM holds, then a body with > some mass > with the same initial motion should be deflected by the appearance of > gravimagnetic field (not a gravity field) , Yes, again with the same caveats. > but it appears to be only true > if the body is initially rotating too. No. The deflection can be due solely to the Lorentz force. However, if the gravimagnetic field is not uniform, then a spinning body can also be deflected by the gravimagnetic force. In a uniform gravimagnetic field a spinning body, in motion or not with respect to the gravimagnetic field, is only made to precess due to its spinning. A spinning body is deflected by the Lorentz force just like a non-spinning body. > > Have I misunderstood the meaning of isomorphism or something about the > theory of gravimagnetism? Your understanding of EM may be a bit off, if I understand your questions. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 4 14:08:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k14M8EgO024461; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 14:08:14 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k14M8CfG024438; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 14:08:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 14:08:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <43E525C4.6020501@pobox.com> Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 17:08:04 -0500 From: "Stephen A. Lawrence" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050923 Fedora/1.7.12-1.5.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: 0T: Income Tax References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66278 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Harry Veeder wrote: > Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: > > >>Remember the Laffer curve debates, years back? At 0% income tax the >>government's net tax revenue is zero. At 100% income tax nobody works >>for taxable dollars and again the government's tax take is zero. So, >>the _maximum_ tax take is achieved at some tax rate L, with 0 < L < 100. >>The curve which relates government tax revenue to tax rate is called >>the Laffer curve, and its peak is the optimal tax rate for maximum >>government income. > > > > > > A 100% income tax would make for a simple flat tax system, A "flat tax" system taxes everyone the same number of dollars. The poll tax that brought down Margaret Thatcher in England was an example of that. A 100% income tax takes everything you earn and gives it to the government; you don't get to keep any of it. I don't see the connection. In any case please be aware that a 100% tax is a "strawman", used only to illustrate the point that raising taxes indefinitely won't increase the government's revenue indefinitely. And if it won't, then someplace in the middle there must be an "optimal" tax rate. > and as long > as a significant fraction of EARNED income is returned by law If the government must give you back your own tax dollars then it's not a 100% tax. With a 100% tax rate on EARNED income you don't keep it and you don't get it back. If you get supported by the government regardless of whether you earn anything, but the government takes every cent you earn on your own (if any), that's a 100% tax plus complete social welfare and the name for it is "pure communism". > people would > continue to work for taxable dollars. Very few, not enough to make the economy run at all well. What actually happens is the economy switches to some kind of barter system, or people find some other way around the confiscatory tax. There's no point in working for "money" which you never see, so people don't do it, and the reported "taxable income" drops to zero. If that's not possible, people leave -- right now there are many economic refugees from France living elsewhere in Europe, because their tax system hits some wealthy people so hard (much, much worse than anything we have in the United States). In "pure communism" nobody gets paid to work, everybody is provided for, and some incentive other than financial rewards must be found to induce people to work; otherwise they just sit around and send email all day :-) In Russia under communism 5% of the land produced more than 50% of the gross farm output. The 5% of the land that produced so well was the 5% that was reserved for individual plots, where the farmers could actually keep what they produced, and sell it if they wanted to, and keep the money they earned. Most people work harder if they get tangible rewards for what they do. Many people would have left Communist Russia if they had had the chance. I remember my father observing that he'd start believing the Communist claims of a "worker's paradise" the day they started building walls to keep people _out_, rather than keep people _in_. (On the other hand, from what I've heard a lot of people actually liked the system, too; some who successfully emigrated found it difficult and unpleasant to get along in capitalist countries.) > Harry > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 4 14:13:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k14MCpLD026732; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 14:12:51 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k14MCjgH026701; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 14:12:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 14:12:45 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Solar and Lunar Gravimagnetic Fields Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 09:12:25 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <6CC9AD57-84A1-4860-B36A-6B5FB42AFE8D@mtaonline.net> In-Reply-To: <6CC9AD57-84A1-4860-B36A-6B5FB42AFE8D@mtaonline.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.1/32.783 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta05ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sat, 4 Feb 2006 22:12:23 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k14MCYue026526 Resent-Message-ID: <65rpvC.A.GhG.cbS5DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66279 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Horace Heffner's message of Fri, 3 Feb 2006 18:11:57 -0900: Hi Horace, [snip] >galactic core is involved. The axis of precession is aligned with >the poles of the ecliptic, thus the ambient gravimagnetic field must >be also, on average. We may have a dark partner in our part of the >galaxy. [snip] Have you considered the possibility that it may be much closer to home, i.e. in the core of the Earth? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 4 14:16:53 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k14MGcFD028784; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 14:16:39 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k14MGZRL028758; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 14:16:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 14:16:35 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <8C7F7B7D0261E71-A14-4957@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C7F7B7D0261E71-A14-4957@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Wind Projects Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 13:13:37 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66280 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Feb 4, 2006, at 6:35 AM, hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote: > Map of wind projects: > > http://www.awea.org/projects/index.html > > "TOTAL INSTALLED U.S. WIND ENERGY CAPACITY: 9,149 MW as of Dec 31, > 2005" I see Alaska is shown with only 1 installed wind project. I assume they don't count windmills below some capacity. Alaska has a colossal wind potential, but it is very hard to get to and tap. It is located at the top of mountain ridges. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 4 14:29:34 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k14MTOe6000524; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 14:29:24 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k14MTN5N000505; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 14:29:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 14:29:23 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: References: <6CC9AD57-84A1-4860-B36A-6B5FB42AFE8D@mtaonline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Solar and Lunar Gravimagnetic Fields Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 13:26:25 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66281 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Feb 4, 2006, at 1:12 PM, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > In reply to Horace Heffner's message of Fri, 3 Feb 2006 18:11:57 > -0900: > Hi Horace, > [snip] >> galactic core is involved. The axis of precession is aligned with >> the poles of the ecliptic, thus the ambient gravimagnetic field must >> be also, on average. We may have a dark partner in our part of the >> galaxy. > [snip] > Have you considered the possibility that it may be much closer to > home, i.e. in the core of the Earth? Yes. The Earth's gravimagnetic field is comparatively small. See http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/GraviCalcs.pdf and the GRACE mission: http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/lookingatearth/earth_drag.html which did actually see and measure in detail the effects of the Earth's gravimagnetic field (and/or relativistic effects) on orbital precession, because it is an *incremental* effect due to incremental changes in distance from the Earth. The Gravity Probe B satellite, however, is measuring the effect of the *absolute* gravimagnetic field by looking at precession of a small silicon ball, so gravimagnetism predicts a 50-100 fold difference in results. This all seems to me to rule out a source of gravimagnetism within the Earth which can make its surface actually or even appear to precess. Some combination of magnetism and gravimagnetism might work except for the fact the magnetic field reverses and the precession keeps right on ticking during the reversal. We are right now in the process of a magnetic reversal. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 4 15:53:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k14NqwRS030759; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 15:52:59 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k14NquD7030736; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 15:52:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 15:52:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 18:49:46 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: 0T: Income Tax In-reply-to: <14254540.1139004755757.JavaMail.root@fepweb09> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_n7cmv3Km8Xi6zjoExuPHLg)" User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66282 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --Boundary_(ID_n7cmv3Km8Xi6zjoExuPHLg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT OrionWorks wrote: >From Harry Veeder >>Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: >>Remember the Laffer curve debates, years back? At 0% income tax the >>government's net tax revenue is zero. At 100% income tax nobody works >>for taxable dollars and again the government's tax take is zero. So, >>the _maximum_ tax take is achieved at some tax rate L, with 0 L 100. >>The curve which relates government tax revenue to tax rate is called >>the Laffer curve, and its peak is the optimal tax rate for maximum >>government income. > >A 100% income tax would make for a simple flat tax system, and as long >as a significant fraction of EARNED income is returned by law people would >continue to work for taxable dollars. > >Harry This reminds me of a cartoon that is just as timely today as it was when I first saw it. It was posted on a bulletin board of a place I used to work at - The Wisconsin Department of Revenue. This was many decades ago when I was a mere pup in my 20s. It was the new simplified tax return form. Only two lines to fill in: ************************************************* * (1) How much money did you make? [ ] * ************************************************* * (2) Send it in. [ ] * ************************************************* Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com I saw that joke recently. A market economy with private property rights and flexible prices can be rationally defended on the grounds that it is the best way to produce _real_ wealth. However, if I remember correctly, even the great market economist F. Hayek conceded that the workings of a market economy do not provide a rational basis for judging whether a particular person's _monetary_ income is _deserved_. Harry --Boundary_(ID_n7cmv3Km8Xi6zjoExuPHLg) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Re: 0T: Income Tax OrionWorks wrote:

>From Harry Veeder
>>Stephen A. Lawrence wrote:

>>Remember the Laffer curve debates, years back? At 0% income tax the
>>government's net tax revenue is zero. At 100% income tax nobody works
>>for taxable dollars and again the government's tax take is zero. So,
>>the _maximum_ tax take is achieved at some tax rate L, with 0 L 100.
>>The curve which relates government tax revenue to tax rate is called
>>the Laffer curve, and its peak is the optimal tax rate for maximum
>>government income.
>
>A 100% income tax would make for a simple flat tax system, and as long
>as a significant fraction of EARNED income is returned by law people would
>continue to work for taxable dollars.
>
>Harry


This reminds me of a cartoon that is just as timely today as it was when I first saw it. It was posted on a bulletin board of a place I used to work at - The Wisconsin Department of Revenue. This was many decades ago when I was a mere pup in my 20s.

It was the new simplified tax return form. Only two lines to fill in:

*************************************************
* (1) How much money did you make? [ ] *
*************************************************
* (2) Send it in. [ ] *
*************************************************

Regards,
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com


I saw that joke recently.

A market economy with private property rights and flexible prices
can be rationally defended on the grounds that it is the best way to produce
_real_ wealth. However, if I remember correctly, even the great
market economist F. Hayek conceded that the workings
of a market economy do not provide a rational basis for judging
whether a particular person's _monetary_ income is _deserved_.


Harry --Boundary_(ID_n7cmv3Km8Xi6zjoExuPHLg)-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 4 16:07:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1507EEX003952; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 16:07:15 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1507CLa003918; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 16:07:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 16:07:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 18:07:05 -0600 Message-ID: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B077280@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Index: AcYpFaACvv22VoHQQuaL4aPwmtasyQA0eYcg From: "Zell, Chris" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Feb 2006 00:07:07.0123 (UTC) FILETIME=[19F44C30:01C629E8] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k15079Md003867 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66283 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: if we want to live like third-world peasants. We are headed in that direction. More sad hysteria > " horrendous and totally uncontrolled pollution caused by ethanol >production" > You are not even aware it exists. Amazing - and now you're a mind reader > >Jobs in rural areas that also reduce oil dependence are important If your purpose is to steal money from taxpayers and give it to unemployed rural people, why not be honest and simply put them on welfare? They will do far less damage to the land and the economy if we simply pay them off, rather than paying them off to waste a few hundred million barrels of oil. More hysteria Giving people real work does give them dignity and purpose in life, but I do not think it helps to give people pretend make-work in a government boondoggle like ethanol. In any case, they might as well admit that all they are doing is stealing from the rest of us. Frankly, those people should be ashamed to accept the money. They should be forced to jump through rings and surrender their assets and self-respect, the way urban welfare cases are. Both "they " and their representatives in Congress seem quite happy From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 4 16:09:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1508qxj004911; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 16:08:53 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1508olG004883; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 16:08:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 16:08:50 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Shell Oil says NO Peak Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 18:08:43 -0600 Message-ID: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B077281@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Shell Oil says NO Peak Thread-Index: AcYp6FNCrR/lW4ccRke9kKsFSs8D+w== From: "Zell, Chris" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Feb 2006 00:08:43.0877 (UTC) FILETIME=[539FC950:01C629E8] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k1508mo8004806 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66284 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: www.worldnetdaily.com/biznetdaily/ From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 4 16:16:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k150GOIQ009424; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 16:16:28 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k150GCM0009330; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 16:16:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 16:16:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <8C7F7BC1031CC5B-A14-4A26@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C7F7BC1031CC5B-A14-4A26@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: More on the Firefly Battery Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 15:13:04 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66285 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Feb 4, 2006, at 7:06 AM, hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote: > http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/firefly_energy.html > > "They have developed a battery using lead acid chemistry that > significantly increases the power density while improving cycle > life. Lead acid battery chemistry is theoretically capable of > delivering 216.8 Whr/Kg while current technology averages 30 Whr/Kg." > > Wow! Here is something also interesting along the lines of lead-acid batteries. http://www.canadus.com/home/hfbe/index.htm A pulsed method to de-sulfate the plates and rejuvenate the battery. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 4 16:33:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k150XUDu017149; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 16:33:31 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k150XPDC017107; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 16:33:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 16:33:25 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <001501c629eb$97e04ab0$a4b1e118@D54BYG11> Reply-To: "John Coviello" From: "John Coviello" To: References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B077281@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> Subject: Re: Shell Oil says NO Peak Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 19:32:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-From: johnwc@patmedia.net Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66286 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: We hear peak oil and anti-peak oil stories all of the time. However, there's really only one true indicator regarding the scarcity of oil, price. Sure, short term supply distruptions have caused the price of oil to spike from time to time, but those spikes were always followed by quick retreats. So far, the recent runup in oil prices over the past two years has been sustained and generally demonstrates a trend higher. Seems to be telling us something more is going on than short term supply distruptions are responsible. If it's just a short term supply problem, oil should recede to $30 a barrel or so. I think we might reach peak oil production, just due to overwhelming demand in coming years. In other words perhaps the actual amount of oil production possible has not reached a true peak, but demand will grow so rapidly that it simply outstrips the capacity to supply the growing demand and therefore the price of oil spirals higher. I just wonder where all the additional supply capacity is going to come from to satisfy the increasing demand for oil? The world consumes around 84 Million Barrels per day, where is all the extra supply going to actually come from when the world needs 120 Million Barrels per day in twenty years? Tar sands in Alberta are suppossed to triple their capacity to 3 Million Barrels per day in a few years, it's not coming from there. I don't see it happening. I think a more likely scenario would be that the price of oil products gets so expensive that it triggers efficiency gains such as hydrogen boosters for diesel engines (being sold in Canada now) and massive rampups of hybrids, including plug-in hybrids, as consumers look for relief, thus cutting demand. Something has to give. One thing about peak oil, Shell was one of the countries that overstated their oil reserves by 20% and had to restate them, so don't take their word too seriously. Also, many OPEC countries have overstated their oil reserves because it boosts their quotas. Kuwaitt has been reported in two news stories in recent months to have overstated their oil reserves by a whopping 50% and it is generally acknowledged that their main field has peaked out. Mexico is also approaching peak. The jury is out, but the evidence is starting to build up that a real oil peak is coming soon. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zell, Chris" To: Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 7:08 PM Subject: Shell Oil says NO Peak > www.worldnetdaily.com/biznetdaily/ > > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 4 16:39:37 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k150dP3J019575; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 16:39:25 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k150dNA1019552; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 16:39:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 16:39:23 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <002001c629ec$6ece6ac0$a4b1e118@D54BYG11> Reply-To: "John Coviello" From: "John Coviello" To: References: <8C7F7B7D0261E71-A14-4957@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: Wind Projects Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 19:38:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-From: johnwc@patmedia.net Resent-Message-ID: <4ptfK.A.cxE.6kU5DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66287 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I think it's pretty obvious that the U.S. could provide all of its electricity from renewable sources like wind and solar. It's really just a matter of economics and will. The scales are tipping in favor of renewables nowadays with grid-power going up in price fairly rapidly and renewables becoming more competitve each year. A utility in my home state just announced a whopping 50% increase in their rates to cover the surge in natural gas generating costs. How much longer can these sorts of price increases continue before people just start looking at alternatives more seriously? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Horace Heffner" To: Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 5:13 PM Subject: Re: Wind Projects > > On Feb 4, 2006, at 6:35 AM, hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote: > >> Map of wind projects: >> >> http://www.awea.org/projects/index.html >> >> "TOTAL INSTALLED U.S. WIND ENERGY CAPACITY: 9,149 MW as of Dec 31, 2005" > > I see Alaska is shown with only 1 installed wind project. I assume they > don't count windmills below some capacity. > > Alaska has a colossal wind potential, but it is very hard to get to and > tap. It is located at the top of mountain ridges. > > Horace Heffner > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 4 16:48:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k150mOQ3023184; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 16:48:25 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k150mMwO023158; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 16:48:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 16:48:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <002b01c629ed$ae236120$a4b1e118@D54BYG11> Reply-To: "John Coviello" From: "John Coviello" To: References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B077281@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> Subject: Re: Shell Oil says NO Peak Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 19:46:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-From: johnwc@patmedia.net Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66288 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: It does look like Shell's replacement capacity has peaked... There was also some disappointment over Shell's weak performance upstream where it only managed to replace 60% to 70% of the oil it pumped with new additions to reserves. This is well below the 100% rate needed to stop an oil firm's asset base from shrinking. Peter Hitchens, oil analyst at Teather & Greenwood, said: "Shell has had another poor performance with the drill bit." And the analyst didn't fancy the group's chances of turning this situation round any time soon, adding: "(The target) would require the group becoming one of the best explorers among the integrated oil companies, rather than one of the worst." ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zell, Chris" To: Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 7:08 PM Subject: Shell Oil says NO Peak > www.worldnetdaily.com/biznetdaily/ > > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 4 18:57:40 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k152vEpj005146; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 18:57:14 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k152v96A005105; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 18:57:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 18:57:09 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <43E56979.2030800@pobox.com> Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 21:56:57 -0500 From: "Stephen A. Lawrence" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050923 Fedora/1.7.12-1.5.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: 0T: Income Tax References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66289 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Harry Veeder wrote: > > > A market economy with private property rights and flexible prices > can be rationally defended on the grounds that it is the best way to > produce > _real_ wealth. However, if I remember correctly, even the great > market economist F. Hayek conceded that the workings > of a market economy do not provide a rational basis for judging > whether a particular person's _monetary_ income is _deserved_. Boy you sure wouldn't get an argument from _me_ on that. Unless you're a follower of Ayn Rand it's hard to see how capitalism can be defended on _moral_ grounds. The trouble is, no other system seems to work nearly as well, and what's worse, the effectiveness with which capitalism "works" appears to be directly related to the size of the gap between rich and poor, because that "gap" is a direct measure of the incentive everyone has to work harder in an effort to become rich. (In addition, of course, there also must be adequate social mobility; inherited wealth does _nothing_ to stimulate people to work harder, and the landed gentry are just a drag on the wheels of progress.) _But_ the market economy can be hideously unfair, it makes implicit value judgements of everyone based on arbitrary criteria, and if it's unbridled it tends to leave people at grave risk if anything bad should happen. Capitalism provides wealth; it does not naturally provide security. As Jed might point out, all of these problems go strongly against our instincts as pack hunters who take care of their own and share the food. So most people, regardless of their religion, would probably agree that completely unbridled capitalism is just plain "wrong". So, we strive to "de-tune" the system a bit to make it fairer without breaking it entirely. Almost everybody is in favor of a progressive income tax, for example, even though it reduces the incentive to work harder in order to make more money. Unemployment insurance seems like a Good Thing even though it reduces the incentive to find another job when you're laid off. The Swedish model looks pretty good; the Norwegians do pretty well; the Russians, who tried to throw capitalism overboard entirely under the Communists, went too far and didn't manage to make it work (operating your empire at a loss and trying to make up for it by anexxing more countries, which are also operated at a loss, can't work indefinitely). > > > Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 4 19:30:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k153UZ1p015635; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 19:30:36 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k153UXdF015613; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 19:30:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 19:30:33 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <43E57149.9080803@pobox.com> Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 22:30:17 -0500 From: "Stephen A. Lawrence" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050923 Fedora/1.7.12-1.5.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Do we have peak uranium, too? References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076D54@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20060203140325.029f0320@mail.newenergytimes.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20060203140325.029f0320@mail.newenergytimes.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66290 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Steven Krivit wrote: > My sources...atomic energy researchers in France and Canada say we have > 80 years of uranium left. I don't know where the "peak" is. That agrees with what I believe I've read elsewhere. HOWEVER... ... That's just U235, and unless I miss my guess, it's without reprocessing to recover usable fuel from the "spent" fuel rods. The fact that it glosses over is that, with sensible handling, the available fuel would last centuries, which should certainly be enough time to figure out something better! First of all, simple reprocessing can extend that 80 year number greatly, but it's politically unacceptable due, IIRC, to the ease with which the process can be subverted to make bomb-grade enriched uranium. The United States, in particular, does _not_ reprocess its spent fuel (someone please correct me if I'm wrong about this). I'm not sure where Eurupe stands on this issue. Far more to the point, breeder reactors could extend that number by perhaps a factor of 100 by allowing us to burn the U238 rather than just burning the U235 and hence throwing away 99% of the fuel, completely unused, as we do today. But safe and effective breeder reactors have not been developed, AFAIK, and most likely never will be, because they are scary and politically completely unacceptable: the fuel they produce when they convert the U238, unless I am mistaken, is plutonium. And _that_ is the fuel of choice for bombs. So, the upshot is that we have enough uranium in the ground to last us centuries, but the technologies which would enable us to use it efficiently are currently "untouchable" and are likely to remain that way. In consequence we'll never actually be able to use more than perhaps 1% of the available uranium, and we'll just throw away the rest, sealing it up in caves as a "problem" rather than burning it as a "solution". And this situation seems unlikely to change. Anyway, I will be happy to stand corrected on any of this. > > At 06:44 AM 2/3/2006, you wrote: > >> We haven't had any new nuclear power plants built in many years. >> Since any notion of NIMBYism is to be rejected ( despite overwhelming >> political >> evidence that it is real), the clear answer is THAT URANIUM HAS PEAKED! >> The same goes for the rich Cape Cod elitists who don't want wind >> turbines >> off their coast. Clearly, saving birds is paramount. >> >> Why build nuclear power plants when we know that uranium is running >> out? Surely, the situation is no different than the fact that the US >> hasn't built a new >> refinery since 1976 - Obviously, everyone knew - 30 YEARS AGO - that >> we were running out of oil and refineries were a waste of time. >> >> Obvious too, is the fact that everyone knows that coal/ shale/ >> thermal pyrolysis treated garbage will never give us significant sources >> of oil. What are >> Pennsylvania and Montana thinking, when they to spend billions for >> this? Those estimates of centuries worth of coal aren't to be taken >> seriously. >> Anyone who thinks otherwise needs a reality >> check.............................. >> >> > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 4 19:41:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k153fZQ5019693; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 19:41:36 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k153fYGn019676; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 19:41:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 19:41:34 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00fc01c62a06$0ac96920$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Subject: Time is... Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 19:41:25 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: <6wSph.A.YzE.tPX5DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66291 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.stanford.edu/~afmayer/ ...time is not a single dimension of spacetime but rather a local geometric distinction in spacetime. While this may seem esoteric, it is actually quite simple, according to the author of a new book due out soon ... riiiight! Imagine that 'the arrow of time' in the Universe, like gravity on Earth, is ostensibly the "same" everywhere, yet at the same 'time' it is different everywhere relative to everywhere else. That means that the 'arrow of time' points in different directions in spacetime depending on where you are, so time has a geometry just like space has a geometry. The idea is that there are an infinite number of time dimensions in the Universe - which revolutionizes gravitational theory and much of modern science with it. A number of outstanding scientific mysteries are definitively solved, including observations... From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 4 20:31:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k154Uv0v006039; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 20:30:57 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k154Ut4j006011; Sat, 4 Feb 2006 20:30:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 20:30:55 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <000c01c62a0c$ed28dc50$f2027841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: Relax, It's only money !! Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 22:30:42 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C629DA.A1F73560" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2005-06-05) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66292 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C629DA.A1F73560 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0009_01C629DA.A1F73560" ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C629DA.A1F73560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankFun stuff, can you imagine the time and energy devoted to = researching this info? http://www.the-catbird-seat.net/index.html Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C629DA.A1F73560 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Fun stuff, can you imagine the time and energy devoted to = researching this=20 info?
 
 http://www.the-catbir= d-seat.net/index.html

Richard

------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C629DA.A1F73560-- ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C629DA.A1F73560 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000701c62a0c$ec8a0440$f2027841@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C629DA.A1F73560-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 5 09:56:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k15Hu2xZ013819; Sun, 5 Feb 2006 09:56:03 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k15Hu0rC013793; Sun, 5 Feb 2006 09:56:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 09:56:00 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=FxP7955YDvyUziVMwgcCEzafB0Etq658QCMhPCNKqpteDjXeO6wN0Jb1sQDyGvli; h=Received:From:To:Subject:Date:User-Agent:References:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Disposition:Message-Id:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; From: Standing Bear To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, "Stephen A. Lawrence" Subject: Re: Do we have peak uranium, too? Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 13:03:27 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076D54@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20060203140325.029f0320@mail.newenergytimes.com> <43E57149.9080803@pobox.com> In-Reply-To: <43E57149.9080803@pobox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200602051303.27920.rockcast@earthlink.net> X-ELNK-Trace: 161777525297e62b1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7917cbecec970bb1980638f4c44d2ae8ce350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 71.115.188.143 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66293 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Saturday 04 February 2006 22:30, Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: > Steven Krivit wrote: > > My sources...atomic energy researchers in France and Canada say we have > > 80 years of uranium left. I don't know where the "peak" is. > > That agrees with what I believe I've read elsewhere. HOWEVER... > > ... That's just U235, and unless I miss my guess, it's without > reprocessing to recover usable fuel from the "spent" fuel rods. > > The fact that it glosses over is that, with sensible handling, the > available fuel would last centuries, which should certainly be enough > time to figure out something better! > > First of all, simple reprocessing can extend that 80 year number > greatly, but it's politically unacceptable due, IIRC, to the ease with > which the process can be subverted to make bomb-grade enriched uranium. > The United States, in particular, does _not_ reprocess its spent fuel > (someone please correct me if I'm wrong about this). I'm not sure where > Eurupe stands on this issue. > > Far more to the point, breeder reactors could extend that number by > perhaps a factor of 100 by allowing us to burn the U238 rather than just > burning the U235 and hence throwing away 99% of the fuel, completely > unused, as we do today. But safe and effective breeder reactors have > not been developed, AFAIK, and most likely never will be, because they > are scary and politically completely unacceptable: the fuel they > produce when they convert the U238, unless I am mistaken, is plutonium. > And _that_ is the fuel of choice for bombs. > > So, the upshot is that we have enough uranium in the ground to last us > centuries, but the technologies which would enable us to use it > efficiently are currently "untouchable" and are likely to remain that > way. In consequence we'll never actually be able to use more than > perhaps 1% of the available uranium, and we'll just throw away the rest, > sealing it up in caves as a "problem" rather than burning it as a > "solution". And this situation seems unlikely to change. > > Anyway, I will be happy to stand corrected on any of this. > > > At 06:44 AM 2/3/2006, you wrote: > >> We haven't had any new nuclear power plants built in many years. > >> Since any notion of NIMBYism is to be rejected ( despite overwhelming > >> political > >> evidence that it is real), the clear answer is THAT URANIUM HAS PEAKED! > >> The same goes for the rich Cape Cod elitists who don't want wind > >> turbines > >> off their coast. Clearly, saving birds is paramount. > >> > >> Why build nuclear power plants when we know that uranium is running > >> out? Surely, the situation is no different than the fact that the US > >> hasn't built a new > >> refinery since 1976 - Obviously, everyone knew - 30 YEARS AGO - that > >> we were running out of oil and refineries were a waste of time. > >> > >> Obvious too, is the fact that everyone knows that coal/ shale/ > >> thermal pyrolysis treated garbage will never give us significant sources > >> of oil. What are > >> Pennsylvania and Montana thinking, when they to spend billions for > >> this? Those estimates of centuries worth of coal aren't to be taken > >> seriously. > >> Anyone who thinks otherwise needs a reality > >> check.............................. And to all the above. The ugly reallity is that the logical conclusion of all this 'discourse' over what is or is not 'acceptable', to play devils advocate, is that we run out, construct nothing because we are all afraid of the nut cases among us and have not the political will to do anything about them, and starve. In the cold. In the dark. Lose five sixths of our population to: disease.....crime....wars over what is left....starvation that brings on all the above....mass migrations to southern lands where warmth abides but food does not....wars among the new 'noble classes' and the new 'caste system'. You do not for one moment that the present inequalities among humans will even themselves out voluntarily and altruistically do you? Do you really believe that your certainties about the capacity of the human race for evil amongst themselves will suddenly...disappear!! ..in the face of the greatest tragedy in the history of our species? Do you think for one moment that the end of energy resources will not lead to monopoly control in resource areas and tribute levied and medieval fealty demanded to the owners by the devine right of the appointees of God or Allah or Marduk or whoever to govern the world by the fact of possession of those resource areas? Do you not think that Monarchies which have never died in the world, and who grew up in environments of limited resource will not again flourish, sprouting with sickening speed the trappings of royalty complete with castles full of whores and servants and fields full of slaves.............you? You the slave, not you the 'count' or 'squire' , or 'esquire', or his 'excellency'! This climate of fear concerning all things nuclear, if pursued to its logical end, leads to just that! If the same view and fear was present in all the nations of the world, that is! But then there is the shepherds philosophy! On the other hand, there are other countries in the world with a completely different world view. Take China who is going full speed ahead to develope nuclear power, and Tian-An-Men and a quick burial under a bag of lye for all who oppose it. If we cannot bring ourselves out of our funk in time, we will have yet again proved ourselves weak and unable to govern ourselves. Others may and will be quite capable of subjugating us one way or another. Especially after we begin to die of exposure and starvation and disease in large numbers. In reality though, we are a people asleep who appear to be temporarily misguided by self appointed pseudo intellectuals who have usurped our ability to think for ourselves. They are able to do this because, like Lenin said, a well fed populace never become revolutionaries. How about when we are less well fed. Do a thought experiment. I said THOUGHT experiment: say you had an imaginary dog, a large one; and say this dog was very well behaved and never bit anybody or chased a cat or fought with another dog; and say you had several of these in a fenced yard; you fed them from a common trough that was always full and watered them from a common watering device that also was always full; now take away half of the water and half of the food and do this for a week; then two weeks; now take away half of each again for another two weeks; and so on; just how long, ask yourself, will the dogs in the closed pen in this adiabatic system behave well with one another?; how long before a 'pecking order' becomes clearly evident?; how long before it becomes DEADLY evident?; and how long before there is only ONE dog left?; and is THAT DOG the one that YOU would have chosen as the survivor having observed this imaginary tragedy and imaginary crime of your own imagining unfold before your dreamstate eyes, fantasy week after fantasy days until the ultimate sad conclusion? Such is the nature of man! We have the ultimate arrogance if we think that by withholding our discoveries of a technology available to anyone with the will and the way, we will stop all uses of these technologies world wide. We have the ultimate lake of judgement if we think that we will be forever able to peacefully stop these countries from pursuing nuclear energy in the face of shortages, inequalities, opportunistic foreign politicians and businessmen, etc. Ultimately it will come down for arguments of force. How many men and women in the so called 'civilized' countries will have to come home in boxes to maintain the profitability of the oil and other fossil energy merchants? How many before politics here begin to change? They are changing now, silently with each fillup of three dollar a gallon gasoline. They are changing now, silently with each thousand dollar a month heating bill for common two bedroom houses in middle America. The politics of renewable energy is a barren promise that will have its deadly veracity proven by the population dynamics of Malthus. Which product will we make with our biomass: food to prevent starvation and then freeze to death; or energy to keep us warm so we can starve and rot in warm houses; or a varying amounts of both so SOME of us, the old and sick among us, the low paid among us, can both starve and freeze while the affluent new upper classes literally dine on our corpses. No, there are poor countries in other parts of the world that have already had enough of this and they are reaching for nuclear power as fast as they can get it. The only way to stop them is for our young men and women to militarily take over and occupy the entire world. Unfortunately for the United States, its ability to do this is long past. Its military is 'volunteer'. That means if an emergency happens, it will melt away literally overnight. We can yell at Iran. The Europeans can yell at Iran while they whisper at Korea and hide from China and pretend to not see Israel. Just like the Americans do! The world knows how strong the Europeans really are! They ran out of Lebanon twenty years ago. They were deathly afraid of little Serbia who they appeared secretly allied with. They now cringe before Syria when a manufactured 'cartoon crisis' resulted in the burning of western embassies with the connivance of the local authorities. This shows blatant weakness in the face of an enemy, yes!, an enemy. These enemies look for signs like this as an acknowedgement of weakness and as an invitation to attack and conquer. We can no more hold back the use and developement of nuclear power in this world than we can individually stand on a seashore and hold back the tide! All the sickening arguments over terrorism and fallout and radiation are going to happen anyway. Only the crap that damages us will now come from abroad, and that will be the only difference. What we can do is crash build breeder reactor technology in our country. We can guard it all we want. We have the uranium. When we do this we will have so much energy it will be too cheap to meter! Only politics will have to change. And change it will when stagflation, ruination, poverty and despair overtake enough Americans and fill them with a terrible rage. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 5 09:58:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k15Hw2MK015247; Sun, 5 Feb 2006 09:58:03 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k15HvxFE015203; Sun, 5 Feb 2006 09:57:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 09:57:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Mt8vsgqxpK70BvMXynk4jb4DtLO1cX/B6VyKJQsfawPhAFcNJgnqLwqchsgLXm+e; h=Received:From:To:Subject:Date:User-Agent:References:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Disposition:Message-Id:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; From: Standing Bear To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time is... Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 13:05:23 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <00fc01c62a06$0ac96920$6401a8c0@NuDell> In-Reply-To: <00fc01c62a06$0ac96920$6401a8c0@NuDell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200602051305.23615.rockcast@earthlink.net> X-ELNK-Trace: 161777525297e62b1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79f5d1596af062f73660ec412b867478c7350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 71.115.188.143 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66294 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Saturday 04 February 2006 22:41, Jones Beene wrote: > http://www.stanford.edu/~afmayer/ > > > ...time is not a single dimension of spacetime but rather a local > geometric distinction in spacetime. While this may seem esoteric, > it is actually quite simple, according to the author of a new book > due out soon ... riiiight! > > Imagine that 'the arrow of time' in the Universe, like gravity on > Earth, is ostensibly the "same" everywhere, yet at the same 'time' > it is different everywhere relative to everywhere else. That means > that the 'arrow of time' points in different directions in > spacetime depending on where you are, so time has a geometry just > like space has a geometry. > > The idea is that there are an infinite number of time dimensions > in the Universe - which revolutionizes gravitational theory and > much of modern science with it. A number of outstanding scientific > mysteries are definitively solved, including observations... Cool, I said this before about the multidimensionality of time in previous posts. Standing Bear From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 5 11:12:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k15JBppB015906; Sun, 5 Feb 2006 11:11:52 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k15JBlwm015876; Sun, 5 Feb 2006 11:11:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 11:11:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: More on the Firefly Battery Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 13:11:37 -0600 Message-ID: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B07728C@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: More on the Firefly Battery Thread-Index: AcYp6YPNiovco4GiSoOHBB3J1BkU7wAnmRyA From: "Zell, Chris" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Feb 2006 19:11:38.0449 (UTC) FILETIME=[FD411410:01C62A87] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k15JBiJV015815 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66295 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Article estimates that they will be lower energy density than lithium. -----Original Message----- From: Horace Heffner [mailto:hheffner@mtaonline.net] Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 7:13 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: More on the Firefly Battery On Feb 4, 2006, at 7:06 AM, hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote: > http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/firefly_energy.html > > "They have developed a battery using lead acid chemistry that > significantly increases the power density while improving cycle life. > Lead acid battery chemistry is theoretically capable of delivering > 216.8 Whr/Kg while current technology averages 30 Whr/Kg." > > Wow! Here is something also interesting along the lines of lead-acid batteries. http://www.canadus.com/home/hfbe/index.htm A pulsed method to de-sulfate the plates and rejuvenate the battery. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 5 11:48:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k15JlnEq031109; Sun, 5 Feb 2006 11:47:50 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k15Jlk7X031078; Sun, 5 Feb 2006 11:47:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 11:47:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Rs453WvQWpLh1GfonNKAYuHMYlNjFpVKCaq3crQUjPe2PtL8QnyEw/RiVwqp1Fv6; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006205194740763@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A Flight Problem Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 12:47:40 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940523ea41e33bd763c7123143714fb90d8350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.91 Resent-Message-ID: <9cO1z.A.ilH.hZl5DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66296 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Along with Rick Monteverde's suggestion that a Frisbee's spin effects lift, I propose a lightweight, inflatable "dish" or hemisphere about 8 feet in diameter as a do-it-yourself flying "saucer". If you kept one of those 1950s Hoola Hoops, some strap webbing going to a hub in the center will keep the inflated dome-shaped plastic film flat on the bottom and provide a place to attach the drive shaft powered by the gas engine from a weed whacker. The NASA simulator gives the lift for a rotating cylinder with means for varying the diameter, length and rpm vs air speed etc., which should give a figure for lift on the dish based on the Coanda Effect. FJS http://jef.raskincenter.org/published/coanda_effect.html NASA Flight Simulator: http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/foil2.html Input: Shape/Angle Airfoil Shape: airfoil, ellipse; plate, cylinder, ball Size: Spin Rpm (+/-), Radius Ft, Span ft, Flight Test. -720 rpm 5 ft long x 8 inch dia in 60 mph wind ~ -45 lbs lift. ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Along with Rick Monteverde's suggestion that a Frisbee's spin effects
lift, I propose a lightweight, inflatable "dish"  or hemisphere about 8 feet
in diameter as a do-it-yourself flying "saucer". 
 
If you kept one of those 1950s Hoola Hoops, some strap webbing
going to a hub in the center will keep the inflated dome-shaped plastic
film  flat on the bottom and provide a place to attach the drive shaft
powered by the gas engine from a weed whacker.
 
The NASA simulator gives the lift for a rotating cylinder  with means for
varying the diameter, length and rpm vs air speed  etc., which should give a figure for
lift on the dish based on the Coanda Effect.
 
FJS
 
 
 
NASA Flight Simulator:
 
 
Input: Shape/Angle
 
Airfoil Shape: airfoil, ellipse; plate, cylinder, ball
 
Size: Spin Rpm (+/-),  Radius Ft, Span ft,
 
Flight Test. -720 rpm  5 ft long x 8 inch dia in 60 mph wind ~  -45 lbs lift.  
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 5 12:30:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k15KU9Z6014983; Sun, 5 Feb 2006 12:30:10 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k15KU7Rl014964; Sun, 5 Feb 2006 12:30:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 12:30:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=HiQIzFGtJoAPNPSiaHQKOkv9pE/5Ao0BAoceBCnXrgGjFSb1hA+7BM7yRJ/39ngR; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006205202954157@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: A Flight Problem Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 13:29:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940ee5537b91e56fd3e58e260e3828d6806350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.165.110 Resent-Message-ID: <7-sd-D.A.ppD.PBm5DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66297 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII OTOH, a fast rotating beach umbrella or parasol or a very large mushroom, might do it. :-) http://www.beachstore.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=21 Along with Rick Monteverde's suggestion that a Frisbee's spin effects lift, I propose a lightweight, inflatable "dish" or hemisphere about 8 feet in diameter as a do-it-yourself flying "saucer". If you kept one of those 1950s Hoola Hoops, some strap webbing going to a hub in the center will keep the inflated dome-shaped plastic film flat on the bottom and provide a place to attach the drive shaft powered by the gas engine from a weed whacker. The NASA simulator gives the lift for a rotating cylinder with means for varying the diameter, length and rpm vs air speed etc., which should give a figure for lift on the dish based on the Coanda Effect. FJS A Lucid explanation of the Coanda Effect: http://jef.raskincenter.org/published/coparasolanda_effect.html NASA Flight Simulator: http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/foil2.html Input: Shape/Angle Airfoil Shape: airfoil, ellipse; plate, cylinder, ball Size: Spin Rpm (+/-), Radius Ft, Span ft, Flight Test. -720 rpm 5 ft long x 8 inch dia in 60 mph wind ~ -45 lbs lift. ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
OTOH, a fast rotating beach umbrella or parasol  or
a very large mushroom, might do it.  :-)
 
Along with Rick Monteverde's suggestion that a Frisbee's spin effects
lift, I propose a lightweight, inflatable "dish"  or hemisphere about 8 feet
in diameter as a do-it-yourself flying "saucer". 
 
If you kept one of those 1950s Hoola Hoops, some strap webbing
going to a hub in the center will keep the inflated dome-shaped plastic
film  flat on the bottom and provide a place to attach the drive shaft
powered by the gas engine from a weed whacker.
 
The NASA simulator gives the lift for a rotating cylinder  with means for
varying the diameter, length and rpm vs air speed  etc., which should give a figure for
lift on the dish based on the Coanda Effect.
 
FJS
 
A Lucid explanation of the Coanda Effect:
 
 
 
NASA Flight Simulator:
 
 
Input: Shape/Angle
 
Airfoil Shape: airfoil, ellipse; plate, cylinder, ball
 
Size: Spin Rpm (+/-),  Radius Ft, Span ft,
 
Flight Test. -720 rpm  5 ft long x 8 inch dia in 60 mph wind ~  -45 lbs lift.  
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 5 16:07:04 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1606rWb029718; Sun, 5 Feb 2006 16:06:53 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1606psp029709; Sun, 5 Feb 2006 16:06:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 16:06:51 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 19:06:42 -0500 Message-Id: <8C7F8C857EA673F-1624-14CA@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <410-22006205202954157@earthlink.net> <8C7F8C8320A1B1A-1624-14C2@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <8C7F8C8320A1B1A-1624-14C2@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: A Flight Problem Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.65 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <5_iRP.A.FQH.bMp5DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66298 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Frederick Sparber OTOH, a fast rotating beach umbrella or parasol or a very large mushroom, might do it. :-) <><><><><><><> I've scaled heights on much smaller 'shrooms. I like the hulahoop idea. Didn't we do this before with direct AG? Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 5 16:21:18 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k160KsHI002556; Sun, 5 Feb 2006 16:20:54 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k160KqAX002529; Sun, 5 Feb 2006 16:20:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 16:20:52 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060203184619.034b1658@mindspring.com> References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B07713F@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060203163941.034b1658@mindspring.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060203184619.034b1658@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Message from D. Pimentel Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 15:17:49 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66299 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Despite my facetious remarks about biofuels earlier in this thread, it looks like we are going to need every possible source of energy in the near future. Biofuels will probably come at a severe cost to our farming base, but may be essential to get through the coming years. The harm caused by growing crops for fuel makes drilling in ANWR, which can easily be remediated, look trivial by comparison at this point. A soil free method might work, but cost and volume of production would then be barriers. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 5 16:47:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k160lRqx013576; Sun, 5 Feb 2006 16:47:27 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k160lOLI013545; Sun, 5 Feb 2006 16:47:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 16:47:24 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <000401c62ab6$dc7de350$c3037841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B07713F@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060203163941.034b1658@mindspring.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060203184619.034b1658@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Message from D. Pimentel Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 18:47:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2005-06-05) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.8 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66300 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Horace, Study the Alaska petroleum situation and learn the pipeline is a British owned venture ( Aleaska Pipeline company). The steel pipe used in construction of the pipelinecould only be rolled in the size required by aJapanese firm. Japan get the crude. There is no assurance that the US would receive any crude from ANWR. What a mess ! Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Horace Heffner" To: Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 6:17 PM Subject: Re: Message from D. Pimentel > Despite my facetious remarks about biofuels earlier in this thread, it > looks like we are going to need every possible source of energy in the > near future. Biofuels will probably come at a severe cost to our farming > base, but may be essential to get through the coming years. The harm > caused by growing crops for fuel makes drilling in ANWR, which can easily > be remediated, look trivial by comparison at this point. A soil free > method might work, but cost and volume of production would then be > barriers. > > Horace Heffner > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 5 19:37:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k163bE8J016599; Sun, 5 Feb 2006 19:37:14 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k163bB1c016574; Sun, 5 Feb 2006 19:37:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 19:37:11 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <5BEA9381-FC3A-4928-9BD1-4CFAA34CB150@mtaonline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Horace Heffner Subject: Dark Matter is Hot Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 18:34:10 -0900 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: <6RsGLD.A.5CE.nRs5DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66301 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 5 23:17:31 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k167HMu8008622; Sun, 5 Feb 2006 23:17:22 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k167HJGJ008602; Sun, 5 Feb 2006 23:17:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 23:17:19 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 02:13:47 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: Ambient Gravimagnetic Field and the Earth Field In-reply-to: To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: <0Wqi4D.A.SGC._fv5DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66302 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > > On Feb 4, 2006, at 11:32 AM, Harry Veeder wrote: > > >> In EM theory a body with some charge and with motion which is >> initially >> uniform and in a straight line will be deflected by the appearance >> of a >> magnetic field. > > Yes, assuming of course you do not mean the charge's own field. This > deflection is caused by the analog to the Lorentz force. I would > replace "by the appearance of" with "in the presence of", since > fields do not just appear from nothing and without effect. Well...when an electromagnet is turned 'on' a magnetic field appears. Perhaps there is a construction which can make a gravimagnetic field appear. > >> If the isomorphism between Gravity and EM holds, then a body with >> some mass >> with the same initial motion should be deflected by the appearance of >> gravimagnetic field (not a gravity field) , > > Yes, again with the same caveats. > > >> but it appears to be only true >> if the body is initially rotating too. > > No. The deflection can be due solely to the Lorentz force. However, > if the gravimagnetic field is not uniform, then a spinning body can > also be deflected by the gravimagnetic force. In a uniform > gravimagnetic field a spinning body, in motion or not with respect to > the gravimagnetic field, is only made to precess due to its > spinning. A spinning body is deflected by the Lorentz force just > like a non-spinning body. ok. Harry >> >> Have I misunderstood the meaning of isomorphism or something about the >> theory of gravimagnetism? > > Your understanding of EM may be a bit off, if I understand your > questions. > > Horace Heffner > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 6 03:53:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k16BrTiu019875; Mon, 6 Feb 2006 03:53:33 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k16BrRjv019865; Mon, 6 Feb 2006 03:53:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 03:53:27 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <086E7C58-3EA9-4D3A-96EC-DFAF8A758E9D@mtaonline.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Ambient Gravimagnetic Field and the Earth Field Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 02:50:23 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66303 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Feb 5, 2006, at 10:13 PM, Harry Veeder wrote: > Horace Heffner wrote: > [SNIP] >> ...fields do not just appear from nothing and without effect. > > Well...when an electromagnet is turned 'on' a magnetic field appears. I am only referring here to the mechanism by which a field builds from nothing, which is probably just unnecessary nit picking with regard to your point. When a voltage is applied to a coil the current builds slowly due to the need to supply energy to the magnetic field. Also, the field itself, i.e changes in the field strength due to changes in current, only expands through space at the speed of light. As we accelerate through a Coulombic field a magnetic field "appears" in our vicinity, but the rate of its appearance corresponds to our acceleration and thus it builds gradually. > Perhaps there is a construction which can make a gravimagnetic > field appear. The construction which makes a gravimagnetic field appear is gravicurrent - the motion of mass. Masses in motion experience different forces due to each other at the some given distance when in relative motion vs being fixed in those positions, just as charges similarly experience differing forces. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 6 12:40:46 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smmsp@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k16KeBWW004686; Mon, 6 Feb 2006 12:40:22 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k16KDpCE024449; Mon, 6 Feb 2006 12:13:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 12:13:51 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 15:10:00 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: Ambient Gravimagnetic Field and the Earth Field In-reply-to: <086E7C58-3EA9-4D3A-96EC-DFAF8A758E9D@mtaonline.net> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66304 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > > On Feb 5, 2006, at 10:13 PM, Harry Veeder wrote: > >> Horace Heffner wrote: >> [SNIP] >>> ...fields do not just appear from nothing and without effect. >> >> Well...when an electromagnet is turned 'on' a magnetic field appears. > > > I am only referring here to the mechanism by which a field builds > from nothing, which is probably just unnecessary nit picking with > regard to your point. When a voltage is applied to a coil the > current builds slowly due to the need to supply energy to the > magnetic field. Also, the field itself, i.e changes in the field > strength due to changes in current, only expands through space at the > speed of light. > > As we accelerate through a Coulombic field a magnetic field "appears" > in our vicinity, but the rate of its appearance corresponds to our > acceleration and thus it builds gradually. > > >> Perhaps there is a construction which can make a gravimagnetic >> field appear. > > The construction which makes a gravimagnetic field appear is > gravicurrent - the motion of mass. Masses in motion experience > different forces due to each other at the some given distance when in > relative motion vs being fixed in those positions, just as charges > similarly experience differing forces. > > Horace Heffner > I am interested in how gravimagnetic theory may pertain to the motion of a curling stone. When a curling stone is slowly rotating as well as sliding the path of motion tends to "curl" in the direction of rotation. Why this happens remains very controversial but each explanation advanced assumes a unique model of the frictional forces involved. Since gravimagentism is isomorphic with electromagnetism, then then the appearance of a gravimagentic field depends on the relative acceleration or deceleration of the masses. In regards to a stationary Earth, the sliding motion (deceleration) of a curling stone over the Earth generates a relatively weak gravimagnetic field. However if the curling stone is regarded as stationary and the Earth as sliding under the curling stone, then the deceleration of the Earth will generate a relatively intense gravimagnetic field. Add a little rotation to the mix and I have a hunch that the "curl" of curling stone can be explained by gravimagnetism. What do you think? Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 6 13:35:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k16LZKtL032263; Mon, 6 Feb 2006 13:35:21 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k16LZI9x032236; Mon, 6 Feb 2006 13:35:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 13:35:18 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <9194A06E-B94F-4BDB-B05A-BCBBC81C7574@mtaonline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Horace Heffner Subject: A Private Enterprise Approach to Renewable Energy Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 12:27:10 -0900 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66305 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A private enterprise strategy is feasible for forging a clean renewable energy economy. Unless alternative energy sources develop, like fusion, the principle sources for such an economy are solar and wind energy. Nuclear energy at present is not cost competitive. One of the problems with developing and selling wind and solar energy is the variability of these sources. Typically, alternative energy companies are small and horizontally organized. Many solar and wind companies have failed, in part due to the inability to market power that is not dependably deliverable, and in part due to variability in government support. The variability in delivery problem may in part be solved by use of improved energy storage and transportation means. See: http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/HotCold.pdf http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/BigPicture.pdf However, much of the reliable delivery problem can be immediately solved simply through effective business strategy and business synergies. The solution is a vertical integration approach. By diversifying energy sources, the reliability of delivery is increased, and great technical synergy is possible. By owning energy transmission systems, the delivery strategy can be optimized with reduced exposure to external manipulative schemes. Wind companies should, during buildup of capacity, also acquire or build conventional generating capacity for the purpose of smoothing energy deliveries. Small methane fueled jet engine powered electric plants might be a viable way to build this capacity. Energy delivery reliability for a wind based producer can also be improved by buying or building alternative power sources, like solar, or biofuel generating plants. Merger with existing power generating utilities may make sense, and should be facilitated and expedited by regulatory commissions when application is made by all the merging parties. This nominal approach can be greatly enhanced with technological improvements and a more integrated approach. Wind farms can readily be used to store energy in the form of liquified air. This capacity, combined with use of heat storage plus waste heat from a nearby peak load generating facility, can dramatically increase the efficiency of that facility, as well as the energy storage capability of the overall plant. There are many synergies that can exploit existing technology through vertical integration. A large new source of reliable power, deliverable in the form electricity, can readily be absorbed. Home heating can easily and cheaply be upgraded and augmented by electric heaters. Radio network based, home heating control systems can be implemented that optimize use of the generating, transmission and distribution systems by timing the use of auxiliary electric heat according to codes broadcast by utility management systems. Electric vehicle technology is close to being deliverable in a big way, so home charging can be managed in a similar fashion. The utility control systems could broadcast demand area designation codes and desired demand percentage values. The home systems would respond by attempting to meet auxiliary home demand with the designated amount of auxiliary electricity. The remaining problem, variability in government support, can only be attacked by reaching the critical mass required to support adequate lobbying. A solid business plan and big financing may be the key to quickly cracking the energy nut. Alternatively, a mutually formed business consortium or even merger of alternative energy producers and manufacturers might be achieved to take advantage of the dramatic and obvious economies of scale and synergies available to alternative energy producers. A vertically integrated renewable energy industry strategy is superior to most if not all other US business opportunities in profit magnitude, reliability, and feasibility. The capital sufficient to fully execute a large scale vertical integration strategy unfortunately lies principally in the existing carbon based energy industry. Some companies doubtlessly do not have the leadership ability or motivation to adapt to, much less to rapidly forge, a renewable energy future. Yet the business opportunity lies there for the taking. Some entity will sooner or later, by evolution or by design, take advantage of it. It is hopeful the foresight and energy to do so will come from US companies. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 6 14:50:24 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smmsp@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k16Mo2gQ002114; Mon, 6 Feb 2006 14:50:12 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k16MnOa3001910; Mon, 6 Feb 2006 14:49:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 14:49:24 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060206174705.0353d9f8@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 17:48:55 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: OFF TOPIC Celebrate Lincoln-Darwin day, February 12 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_30768062==.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66306 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=====================_30768062==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed See: http://www.darwinday.org/ February 12th, 1809 On this date, two great men were born -- Abraham Lincoln, Emancipator of American Slaves and Charles Darwin, Emancipator of the Human Mind Their Positive Legacies Still Endure Let's have some Lincoln-Darwin Celebrations Hear, hear! - Jed --=====================_30768062==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" See:

http://www.darwinday.org/

February 12th, 1809
On this date, two great men were born --

Abraham Lincoln, Emancipator of American Slaves
and
Charles Darwin, Emancipator of the Human Mind
Their Positive Legacies Still Endure
Let's have some Lincoln-Darwin Celebrations


Hear, hear!

- Jed
--=====================_30768062==.ALT-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 6 15:42:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k16NfwTQ025524; Mon, 6 Feb 2006 15:41:58 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k16NftbX025498; Mon, 6 Feb 2006 15:41:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 15:41:55 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00c401c62b76$bc9f7560$a4b1e118@D54BYG11> Reply-To: "John Coviello" From: "John Coviello" To: References: <9194A06E-B94F-4BDB-B05A-BCBBC81C7574@mtaonline.net> Subject: Re: A Private Enterprise Approach to Renewable Energy Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 18:40:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-From: johnwc@patmedia.net Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66307 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ultimately, renewable energy will be advanced by private enterprise, just as wind power is now rapidly developing via private interests like GE. The public sector can help with R&D and with public policies to assist renewable energy development. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Horace Heffner" To: Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 4:27 PM Subject: A Private Enterprise Approach to Renewable Energy >A private enterprise strategy is feasible for forging a clean renewable >energy economy. Unless alternative energy sources develop, like fusion, >the principle sources for such an economy are solar and wind energy. >Nuclear energy at present is not cost competitive. > > One of the problems with developing and selling wind and solar energy is > the variability of these sources. Typically, alternative energy > companies are small and horizontally organized. Many solar and wind > companies have failed, in part due to the inability to market power that > is not dependably deliverable, and in part due to variability in > government support. > > The variability in delivery problem may in part be solved by use of > improved energy storage and transportation means. See: > > http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/HotCold.pdf > http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/BigPicture.pdf > > However, much of the reliable delivery problem can be immediately solved > simply through effective business strategy and business synergies. The > solution is a vertical integration approach. By diversifying energy > sources, the reliability of delivery is increased, and great technical > synergy is possible. By owning energy transmission systems, the delivery > strategy can be optimized with reduced exposure to external manipulative > schemes. > > Wind companies should, during buildup of capacity, also acquire or build > conventional generating capacity for the purpose of smoothing energy > deliveries. Small methane fueled jet engine powered electric plants > might be a viable way to build this capacity. Energy delivery > reliability for a wind based producer can also be improved by buying or > building alternative power sources, like solar, or biofuel generating > plants. Merger with existing power generating utilities may make sense, > and should be facilitated and expedited by regulatory commissions when > application is made by all the merging parties. This nominal approach > can be greatly enhanced with technological improvements and a more > integrated approach. > > Wind farms can readily be used to store energy in the form of liquified > air. This capacity, combined with use of heat storage plus waste heat > from a nearby peak load generating facility, can dramatically increase > the efficiency of that facility, as well as the energy storage capability > of the overall plant. There are many synergies that can exploit existing > technology through vertical integration. > > A large new source of reliable power, deliverable in the form > electricity, can readily be absorbed. Home heating can easily and > cheaply be upgraded and augmented by electric heaters. Radio network > based, home heating control systems can be implemented that optimize use > of the generating, transmission and distribution systems by timing the > use of auxiliary electric heat according to codes broadcast by utility > management systems. Electric vehicle technology is close to being > deliverable in a big way, so home charging can be managed in a similar > fashion. The utility control systems could broadcast demand area > designation codes and desired demand percentage values. The home systems > would respond by attempting to meet auxiliary home demand with the > designated amount of auxiliary electricity. > > The remaining problem, variability in government support, can only be > attacked by reaching the critical mass required to support adequate > lobbying. > > A solid business plan and big financing may be the key to quickly > cracking the energy nut. Alternatively, a mutually formed business > consortium or even merger of alternative energy producers and > manufacturers might be achieved to take advantage of the dramatic and > obvious economies of scale and synergies available to alternative energy > producers. A vertically integrated renewable energy industry strategy is > superior to most if not all other US business opportunities in profit > magnitude, reliability, and feasibility. > > The capital sufficient to fully execute a large scale vertical > integration strategy unfortunately lies principally in the existing > carbon based energy industry. Some companies doubtlessly do not have the > leadership ability or motivation to adapt to, much less to rapidly forge, > a renewable energy future. Yet the business opportunity lies there for > the taking. Some entity will sooner or later, by evolution or by > design, take advantage of it. It is hopeful the foresight and energy > to do so will come from US companies. > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 6 16:29:03 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k170Suqu014424; Mon, 6 Feb 2006 16:28:56 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k170Srk5014401; Mon, 6 Feb 2006 16:28:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 16:28:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=kCWub6Lzr7NfNmoV5kTIb8Rna2bBxPU2q7tsU9zfX7rkLNTK+TuHSpviAST11BAt; h=Received:From:To:Subject:Date:User-Agent:References:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Disposition:Message-Id:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; From: Standing Bear To: "John Coviello" , Subject: Re: A Private Enterprise Approach to Renewable Energy Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 19:36:50 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <9194A06E-B94F-4BDB-B05A-BCBBC81C7574@mtaonline.net> <00c401c62b76$bc9f7560$a4b1e118@D54BYG11> In-Reply-To: <00c401c62b76$bc9f7560$a4b1e118@D54BYG11> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200602061936.50977.rockcast@earthlink.net> X-ELNK-Trace: 161777525297e62b1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79dc4b5b68752c745b3b9700d4293d82f6350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 71.115.188.143 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66308 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Monday 06 February 2006 18:40, John Coviello wrote: > Ultimately, renewable energy will be advanced by private enterprise, just > as wind power is now rapidly developing via private interests like GE. The > public sector can help with R&D and with public policies to assist > renewable energy development. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Horace Heffner" > To: > Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 4:27 PM > Subject: A Private Enterprise Approach to Renewable Energy > > >A private enterprise strategy is feasible for forging a clean renewable > >energy economy. Unless alternative energy sources develop, like fusion, > >the principle sources for such an economy are solar and wind energy. > >Nuclear energy at present is not cost competitive. > > > > One of the problems with developing and selling wind and solar energy is > > the variability of these sources. Typically, alternative energy > > companies are small and horizontally organized. Many solar and wind > > companies have failed, in part due to the inability to market power that > > is not dependably deliverable, and in part due to variability in > > government support. > > > > The variability in delivery problem may in part be solved by use of > > improved energy storage and transportation means. See: > > > > http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/HotCold.pdf > > http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/BigPicture.pdf > > > > However, much of the reliable delivery problem can be immediately solved > > simply through effective business strategy and business synergies. The > > solution is a vertical integration approach. By diversifying energy > > sources, the reliability of delivery is increased, and great technical > > synergy is possible. By owning energy transmission systems, the delivery > > strategy can be optimized with reduced exposure to external manipulative > > schemes. > > > > Wind companies should, during buildup of capacity, also acquire or build > > conventional generating capacity for the purpose of smoothing energy > > deliveries. Small methane fueled jet engine powered electric plants > > might be a viable way to build this capacity. Energy delivery > > reliability for a wind based producer can also be improved by buying or > > building alternative power sources, like solar, or biofuel generating > > plants. Merger with existing power generating utilities may make sense, > > and should be facilitated and expedited by regulatory commissions when > > application is made by all the merging parties. This nominal approach > > can be greatly enhanced with technological improvements and a more > > integrated approach. > > > > Wind farms can readily be used to store energy in the form of liquified > > air. This capacity, combined with use of heat storage plus waste heat > > from a nearby peak load generating facility, can dramatically increase > > the efficiency of that facility, as well as the energy storage > > capability of the overall plant. There are many synergies that can > > exploit existing technology through vertical integration. > > > > A large new source of reliable power, deliverable in the form > > electricity, can readily be absorbed. Home heating can easily and > > cheaply be upgraded and augmented by electric heaters. Radio network > > based, home heating control systems can be implemented that optimize > > use of the generating, transmission and distribution systems by timing > > the use of auxiliary electric heat according to codes broadcast by > > utility management systems. Electric vehicle technology is close to > > being deliverable in a big way, so home charging can be managed in a > > similar fashion. The utility control systems could broadcast demand > > area designation codes and desired demand percentage values. The home > > systems would respond by attempting to meet auxiliary home demand with > > the designated amount of auxiliary electricity. > > > > The remaining problem, variability in government support, can only be > > attacked by reaching the critical mass required to support adequate > > lobbying. > > > > A solid business plan and big financing may be the key to quickly > > cracking the energy nut. Alternatively, a mutually formed business > > consortium or even merger of alternative energy producers and > > manufacturers might be achieved to take advantage of the dramatic and > > obvious economies of scale and synergies available to alternative energy > > producers. A vertically integrated renewable energy industry strategy > > is superior to most if not all other US business opportunities in profit > > magnitude, reliability, and feasibility. > > > > The capital sufficient to fully execute a large scale vertical > > integration strategy unfortunately lies principally in the existing > > carbon based energy industry. Some companies doubtlessly do not have > > the leadership ability or motivation to adapt to, much less to rapidly > > forge, a renewable energy future. Yet the business opportunity lies > > there for the taking. Some entity will sooner or later, by evolution > > or by design, take advantage of it. It is hopeful the foresight and > > energy to do so will come from US companies. Be really nice if there was something to black light power, but it always seems a few months away and just out of reach. Must be hard to scale or it would get serious consideration for rocket fuel. Standing Bear From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 6 17:57:40 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k171vQlu019062; Mon, 6 Feb 2006 17:57:26 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k171vOTQ019050; Mon, 6 Feb 2006 17:57:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 17:57:24 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: "Rick Monteverde" To: Subject: RE: A Flight Problem Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 15:57:17 -1000 Message-ID: <001f01c62b89$d7fcf130$e701a8c0@dtqf101> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <8C7F8C857EA673F-1624-14CA@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> Importance: Normal X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server26.fastbighost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - eskimo.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - highsurf.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66309 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yeah, all that AND high voltage - pow... To the moon! - R. -----Original Message----- From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net [mailto:hohlrauml6d@netscape.net] Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 2:07 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A Flight Problem -----Original Message----- From: Frederick Sparber OTOH, a fast rotating beach umbrella or parasol or a very large mushroom, might do it. :-) <><><><><><><> I've scaled heights on much smaller 'shrooms. I like the hulahoop idea. Didn't we do this before with direct AG? Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 6 20:12:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k174CFeX013774; Mon, 6 Feb 2006 20:12:17 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k174CC4t013740; Mon, 6 Feb 2006 20:12:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 20:12:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f In-Reply-To: <00c401c62b76$bc9f7560$a4b1e118@D54BYG11> References: <9194A06E-B94F-4BDB-B05A-BCBBC81C7574@mtaonline.net> <00c401c62b76$bc9f7560$a4b1e118@D54BYG11> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: A Private Enterprise Approach to Renewable Energy Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 19:09:06 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66310 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Feb 6, 2006, at 2:40 PM, John Coviello wrote: > Ultimately, renewable energy will be advanced by private > enterprise, just as wind power is now rapidly developing via > private interests like GE. The public sector can help with R&D and > with public policies to assist renewable energy development. GE does indeed seem to be on the move a bit. I found a rather humerus posting along those lines: http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/000471.html Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Feb 7 02:07:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k17A7ZR1006497; Tue, 7 Feb 2006 02:07:36 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k17A7XR3006480; Tue, 7 Feb 2006 02:07:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 02:07:33 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Ambient Gravimagnetic Field and the Earth Field Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 01:04:23 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66311 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Feb 6, 2006, at 11:10 AM, Harry Veeder wrote: > I am interested in how gravimagnetic theory may pertain to the motion > of a curling stone. > > When a curling stone is slowly rotating as well as sliding the path of > motion tends to "curl" in the direction of rotation. Why this happens > remains very controversial but each explanation advanced assumes > a unique model of the frictional forces involved. > > Since gravimagentism is isomorphic with electromagnetism, then > then the appearance of a gravimagentic field depends on the relative > acceleration or deceleration of the masses. > > In regards to a stationary Earth, the sliding motion (deceleration) > of a > curling stone over the Earth generates a relatively weak gravimagnetic > field. However if the curling stone is regarded as stationary and > the Earth > as sliding under the curling stone, then the deceleration of the > Earth will > generate a relatively intense gravimagnetic field. > > Add a little rotation to the mix and I have a hunch that the "curl" of > curling stone can be explained by gravimagnetism. > > What do you think? > > Harry I don't think gravimagnetism has anything to do with it. The gravimagnetic forces involved here are way too small. There are (at least) a couple existing theories. See: On first glance, Shegelski's theory looks like it makes more sense than Marmo's, but you can't discount practical knowledge. It seems to me some fairly simple experiments could figure out the truth. One reason Marmo's theory looks bad is that forces directed longitudinally to the sides simply tend to make an object spin, not laterally accelerate. There is no significant Bernoulli principle involvement as there is with baseballs, etc. My first impulse, having no practical experience with curling at all, is to suggest the sheer force between the ice and the stone at the back is greater than the similar sheer force at the front of the stone. Thus a net right directing force exists on a moving and clockwise turning stone. When the added ice and water burden is brushed from the ice, the front end of the stone lowers, the water surface width decreases, and the shear force increases. Marmo states: "My theory is quite simple compared to theirs, which doesn't explain why there is much more water at the front than the back ?". I would think a correct theory would tend to make use of this fact more than explain it. The more water up front, the less the sheer force of the water on the front of the stone. To increase the leftward force on the front of the stone, and thus balance the rightward force at the back, it is only necessary to reduce the amount of water and meltable ice the stone runs over and thus drop the front of the stone so it runs on a thinner layer of water. When the front end of the stone rides on the same amount of water as the back the shear forces are balanced and the stone goes straight. That's my guess. Only good data can tell for sure. Horace Heffner. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Feb 7 10:45:12 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k17Ij0n4017843; Tue, 7 Feb 2006 10:45:00 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k17IimB7017757; Tue, 7 Feb 2006 10:44:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 10:44:48 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 13:41:38 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: Ambient Gravimagnetic Field and the Earth Field In-reply-to: To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66312 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > > On Feb 6, 2006, at 11:10 AM, Harry Veeder wrote: > >> I am interested in how gravimagnetic theory may pertain to the motion >> of a curling stone. >> >> When a curling stone is slowly rotating as well as sliding the path of >> motion tends to "curl" in the direction of rotation. Why this happens >> remains very controversial but each explanation advanced assumes >> a unique model of the frictional forces involved. >> >> Since gravimagentism is isomorphic with electromagnetism, then >> then the appearance of a gravimagentic field depends on the relative >> acceleration or deceleration of the masses. >> >> In regards to a stationary Earth, the sliding motion (deceleration) >> of a >> curling stone over the Earth generates a relatively weak gravimagnetic >> field. However if the curling stone is regarded as stationary and >> the Earth >> as sliding under the curling stone, then the deceleration of the >> Earth will >> generate a relatively intense gravimagnetic field. >> >> Add a little rotation to the mix and I have a hunch that the "curl" of >> curling stone can be explained by gravimagnetism. >> >> What do you think? >> >> Harry > > I don't think gravimagnetism has anything to do with it. The > gravimagnetic forces involved here are way too small. > > There are (at least) a couple existing theories. See: > > > > On first glance, Shegelski's theory looks like it makes more sense > than Marmo's, but you can't discount practical knowledge. It seems > to me some fairly simple experiments could figure out the truth. > > One reason Marmo's theory looks bad is that forces directed > longitudinally to the sides simply tend to make an object spin, not > laterally accelerate. There is no significant Bernoulli principle > involvement as there is with baseballs, etc. > > My first impulse, having no practical experience with curling at all, > is to suggest the sheer force between the ice and the stone at the > back is greater than the similar sheer force at the front of the > stone. Thus a net right directing force exists on a moving and > clockwise turning stone. When the added ice and water burden is > brushed from the ice, the front end of the stone lowers, the water > surface width decreases, and the shear force increases. > > Marmo states: "My theory is quite simple compared to theirs, which > doesn't explain why there is much more water at the front than the > back ?". > > I would think a correct theory would tend to make use of this fact > more than explain it. The more water up front, the less the sheer > force of the water on the front of the stone. To increase the > leftward force on the front of the stone, and thus balance the > rightward force at the back, it is only necessary to reduce the > amount of water and meltable ice the stone runs over and thus drop > the front of the stone so it runs on a thinner layer of water. When > the front end of the stone rides on the same amount of water as the > back the shear forces are balanced and the stone goes straight. > > That's my guess. Only good data can tell for sure. > > Horace Heffner. > Thank you for spending the time to familiarise yourself with the issues. My interest in the subject began several years ago and I have read many papers on the subject. (Those that have been published in the Canadian Journal of Physics can be downloaded for free.) I am not satisfied with the explanations that postulate differential frictional forces. At first blush if they are true the amount of curl should increase with the rotation rate, and this is simply not observed. Of course it is possible to postulate an elaborate system of friction so that the mathematics will replicate the observed motion but this approach IMO is like the use of epicycles to explain orbital motion. Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Feb 7 13:46:14 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k17Lk0OG003693; Tue, 7 Feb 2006 13:46:00 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k17LjvhU003668; Tue, 7 Feb 2006 13:45:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 13:45:57 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 16:42:21 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Inversion and Isomorphism. In-reply-to: To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66313 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: An idea... Suppose EM is related to gravity by an inverse isomorphism instead of a simple isomorphism? I don't know if that is the correct mathematical terminology, but here is what mean. First invert the EM equations by interchanging the numerators with the denominators and then make an isomorphism between Gravity and the inverted EM equations. Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Feb 7 20:59:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k184xQhU021110; Tue, 7 Feb 2006 20:59:26 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k184xOus021084; Tue, 7 Feb 2006 20:59:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 20:59:24 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 23:56:16 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: Inversion and Isomorphism. In-reply-to: To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66314 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What was I thinking? Such a simplistic inversion generates physical nonsensical. Harry Harry Veeder wrote: > > An idea... > > Suppose EM is related to gravity by an inverse isomorphism instead of a > simple isomorphism? I don't know if that is the correct mathematical > terminology, but here is what mean. First invert the EM equations by > interchanging the numerators with the denominators and then make an > isomorphism between Gravity and the inverted EM equations. > > > Harry > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Feb 7 22:11:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k186AkfE019558; Tue, 7 Feb 2006 22:10:46 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k186Aho0019536; Tue, 7 Feb 2006 22:10:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 22:10:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Inversion and Isomorphism. Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 21:07:28 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66315 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Feb 7, 2006, at 7:56 PM, Harry Veeder wrote: > What was I thinking? > Such a simplistic inversion generates physical nonsensical. > Harry Not to worry ... generating physical nonsense happens to me all the time. 8^) Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Feb 7 22:42:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k186gmIB004131; Tue, 7 Feb 2006 22:42:48 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k186gkoS004112; Tue, 7 Feb 2006 22:42:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 22:42:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <43E992BC.9070101@usfamily.net> Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 00:42:04 -0600 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Puthoff comments on Sarfati's letter References: <1c7.39de8a3d.311a3cdd@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1c7.39de8a3d.311a3cdd@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66316 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Vortexians; I sent Hal Puthoff a short excerpt of Jack Sarfati's letter. I inquired as to practical applications of ZPE technology, and whether the venue would be a domed stadium, to accommodate Jack's ego, I wonder if it would fit. Puthoff@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/27/2006 2:04:42 P.M. Central Standard Time, > temalloy@usfamily.net writes: > > He says that > the Undersecretary of National Directorate of Intelligence is > arranging for a debate between the two of you, regarding the ZPE and > gravity. > > This is just false hype, a rumor started (and propagated by Jack) to > make it seem that someone was taking Jack's work seriously at the > national level (which I'm told they're not). > > Hal --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Feb 7 23:38:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k187cBRQ030637; Tue, 7 Feb 2006 23:38:12 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k187cAgY030625; Tue, 7 Feb 2006 23:38:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 23:38:10 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: "Rick Monteverde" To: Subject: "...attempt no landing there..." Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 21:38:37 -1000 Message-ID: <000001c62c82$b03769b0$66bcdc0a@RickSR1630> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66317 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Ok fine, so we won't. Sir Arthur right again, for the wrong reason: NASA just whacked the exploration budget (including the first Europa mission) to service the idiotic political mandate of reviving the 1960's moon missions. On second thought, we DO have to go back to the moon first to dig up the monolith, don't we... - R. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Feb 7 23:46:46 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k187kRbI002065; Tue, 7 Feb 2006 23:46:28 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k187kQBx002046; Tue, 7 Feb 2006 23:46:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 23:46:26 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f In-Reply-To: <000001c62c82$b03769b0$66bcdc0a@RickSR1630> References: <000001c62c82$b03769b0$66bcdc0a@RickSR1630> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <0DCBF38F-CDE2-4015-9399-620FF1FF3522@mtaonline.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: "...attempt no landing there..." Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 22:43:14 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66318 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Feb 7, 2006, at 10:38 PM, Rick Monteverde wrote: > Ok fine, so we won't. Sir Arthur right again, for the wrong reason: > NASA > just whacked the exploration budget (including the first Europa > mission) > to service the idiotic political mandate of reviving the 1960's moon > missions. > > On second thought, we DO have to go back to the moon first to dig > up the > monolith, don't we... > > - R. What is this all about? Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 8 06:06:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k18E6Mul018690; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 06:06:23 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k18E6Kbk018674; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 06:06:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 06:06:20 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <200602081406.k18E6HnL068755@mail1.mx.voyager.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 08:06:17 -0600 From: "OrionWorks" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: svj@orionworks.com Reply-To: svj@orionworks.com Subject: Re: "...attempt no landing there..." Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_ea0fbd225fcfe1d20304bffbd24a075e" X-Mailer: CoreComm Webmail X-IPAddress: 66.168.30.131 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66319 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=_ea0fbd225fcfe1d20304bffbd24a075e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > From Rick Monteverde: > > > Ok fine, so we won't. Sir Arthur right again, for the wrong > > reason: NASA just whacked the exploration budget (including the > > first Europa mission)to service the idiotic political > > mandate of reviving the 1960's moon missions. > > > > On second thought, we DO have to go back to the moon first to dig > > up the monolith, don't we... > > > > - R. > > > What is this all about? > > Horace Heffner It's about A. Clark's novel, and subsequent movie, 2010. It's about the fact that NASA's budget can't afford to send real science projects to explore promising moons like Europa, where it is suspected the REAL action may lie teaming and swimming under the thick sheets of ice. I bet there IS a monolith somewhere on that moon! ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com --=_ea0fbd225fcfe1d20304bffbd24a075e Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > From Rick Monteverde:
>
> > Ok fine, so we won't. Sir Arthur right again, for the wrong
> > reason: NASA just whacked the exploration budget (including the
> > first Europa mission)to service the idiotic political
> > mandate of reviving the 1960's moon missions.
> >
> > On second thought, we DO have to go back to the moon first to dig
> > up the monolith, don't we...
> >
> > - R.
>
>
> What is this all about?
>
> Horace Heffner

It's about A. Clark's novel, and subsequent movie, 2010.

It's about the fact that NASA's budget can't afford to send real science pr= ojects to explore promising moons like Europa, where it is suspected the RE= AL action may lie teaming and swimming under the thick sheets of ice.

I bet there IS a monolith somewhere on that moon! ;-)

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
--=_ea0fbd225fcfe1d20304bffbd24a075e-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 8 06:41:43 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k18EfLmG002960; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 06:41:21 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k18EfJAC002928; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 06:41:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 06:41:19 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Your Surrender has Been Ordered Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 08:41:10 -0600 Message-ID: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B0FD548@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Your Surrender has Been Ordered Thread-Index: AcYsvbPpDX1MSa/URxiUGMP95z9IcQ== From: "Zell, Chris" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Feb 2006 14:41:11.0664 (UTC) FILETIME=[B4936F00:01C62CBD] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k18EfExr002864 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66320 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=businessNews&storyID =2006-02-07T191922Z_01_N07246586_RTRUKOC_0_US-ENERGY-EXXON.xml&archived= False A very sad defeatist view From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 8 07:13:02 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k18FCdKQ014974; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 07:12:39 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k18FCTQL014948; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 07:12:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 07:12:29 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060208100750.03493a10@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 10:11:55 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Correction to Mizuno paper about explosion In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.0.16.2.20060127163153.034f8c80@mindspring.com> <000801c62629$f3832290$1714fea9@NuDell> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66321 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner found a mistake in this paper: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MizunoTanomalouse.pdf In Fig. 6, the x-axis should be Time/s (not Time/1000s). Mizuno sent me a corrected version which is now uploaded. Horace was wondering whether there could have been a buildup of hydrogen in the incubator. Mizuno confirmed my recollection that the inside door of the incubator does not cover the entire front surface so it is not a bit airtight, so this is ruled out. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 8 07:24:24 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k18FO5Bt019864; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 07:24:05 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k18FO1o7019790; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 07:24:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 07:24:01 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <000601c62cc3$a5e549f0$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <7.0.0.16.2.20060127163153.034f8c80@mindspring.com> <000801c62629$f3832290$1714fea9@NuDell> <7.0.1.0.2.20060208100750.03493a10@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Correction to Mizuno paper about explosion Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 07:23:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66322 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jed Rothwell Did Mizuno save some of the electrolyte from the incident for future testing? From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 8 07:38:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k18FcJUa028214; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 07:38:20 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k18FcIDO028186; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 07:38:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 07:38:18 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060208102734.0352fa38@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 10:32:42 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Correction to Mizuno paper about explosion In-Reply-To: <000601c62cc3$a5e549f0$6401a8c0@NuDell> References: <7.0.0.16.2.20060127163153.034f8c80@mindspring.com> <000801c62629$f3832290$1714fea9@NuDell> <7.0.1.0.2.20060208100750.03493a10@mindspring.com> <000601c62cc3$a5e549f0$6401a8c0@NuDell> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66323 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones Beene wrote: >Did Mizuno save some of the electrolyte from the incident for future testing? I do not know, but I doubt it. He and his guest were somewhat in shock after the explosion. He was bleeding, deafened, and he had a shard of glass in his neck close to the artery. I doubt they had time to retrieve electrolyte before it evaporated. I do not see any liquid in the photos of the cell after the explosion. (There is fluid in the cooling water tube, but that is tap water.) They did save the cathode and parts of the shattered glass. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 8 07:38:56 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k18FcXsR028334; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 07:38:33 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k18FcSjM028296; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 07:38:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 07:38:28 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060208101238.03493ec0@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 10:13:55 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Your Surrender has Been Ordered In-Reply-To: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B0FD548@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu .clearchannel.com> References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B0FD548@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66324 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: The URL is difficult to enter, and the article is short and mainly quotes, so I will take the liberty of uploading it. As Chris Zell says, it is sadly defeatist. - Jed Exxon: America will always rely on foreign oil Tue Feb 7, 2006 2:19 PM ET HOUSTON (Reuters) - The United States will always rely on foreign imports of oil to feed its energy needs and should stop trying to become energy independent, a top Exxon Mobil Corp. executive said on Tuesday. "Realistically, it is simply not feasible in any time period relevant to our discussion today," Exxon Mobil Senior Vice President Stuart McGill said, referring to what he called the "misperception" that the United States can achieve energy independence. The comments, in a speech at an energy conference in Houston, come a few days after U.S. President George W. Bush declared America was addicted to Middle Eastern oil and promised to help the country kick the habit. Many in the United States believe America should wean itself off oil imports from the Middle East, fearing it makes the country dangerously dependent on an unstable region. The world's largest publicly traded oil company, however, says hoping to end foreign oil imports is not only a bad idea, but also impossible. "Americans depend upon imports to fill the gap," McGill said. "No combination of conservation measures, alternative energy sources and technological advances could realistically and economically provide a way to completely replace those imports in the short or medium term." Instead of trying to achieve energy independence, importing nations like the U.S. should be promoting energy interdependence, McGill said. "Because we are all contributing to and drawing from the same pool of oil, all nations -- exporting and importing -- are inextricably bound to one another in the energy marketplace," he said. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 8 08:49:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k18GnPi4029988; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 08:49:26 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k18GnJWv029946; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 08:49:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 08:49:19 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060208113950.0352fa38@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 11:48:46 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Enron documentary Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66325 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here is a remarkable DVD documentary, "Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room" http://www.netflix.com/MovieDisplay?movieid=70024087&trkid=90529 The producers of this documentary managed to secure some amazing and highly incriminating video clips. The scene from an in-house video where the Enron executives make fun of their own house-of-mirrors own accounting system and refer to "fantasy accounting" is simply amazing. Whatever possessed them to record such a thing? I did not understand the accounting gimmicks they described, perhaps because the descriptions were so abbreviated. The coverage of the California energy crisis was pretty good, although I would have loved to see more details. However there is only so much you can cram into a video and this one is pretty long anyway. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 8 09:19:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k18HJ4nW014538; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 09:19:05 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k18HIpol014358; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 09:18:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 09:18:51 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: "Rick Monteverde" To: Subject: RE: "...attempt no landing there..." Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 06:38:01 -1000 Message-ID: <000001c62cce$0a625760$66bcdc0a@RickSR1630> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <0DCBF38F-CDE2-4015-9399-620FF1FF3522@mtaonline.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66326 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace - Like Steven says. The Explorations program gave us the rovers, Deep Impact (whose web servers were brought to their knees by the overwhelming public interest in the mission around impact time), other missions to the outer planets, comets, asteroids, etc. IOW, out where there's new places to explore and so many profoundly new and useful things to learn. It's all good science and epic discovery, and the public loves it. People are finally coming around to realizing the value of such programs while losing some of the silly Star Trek gotta-have-a-man-up-there thinking that helped drive the original manned mission efforts, yet now NASA has to cut out much of that good science to make budgetary room for the relatively poor pickings gained from new manned lunar missions per political dictate. Why not build several duplicates of the space station while you're at it - money just about as well spent. Why, we could all send our picture film to photo labs installed up there to be developed in microgravity - the grains would develop so much finer, you see. So we're not going to Europa, a *water* planet with what looks like halophilic bacteria oozing up out of the ice. After all, the Chinese are going to the moon sometime soon and what would that do to our national pride if we let them have it all to themselves. This really burns me. - R. -----Original Message----- From: Horace Heffner [mailto:hheffner@mtaonline.net] Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 9:43 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: "...attempt no landing there..." On Feb 7, 2006, at 10:38 PM, Rick Monteverde wrote: > Ok fine, so we won't. Sir Arthur right again, for the wrong reason: > NASA > just whacked the exploration budget (including the first Europa > mission) > to service the idiotic political mandate of reviving the 1960's moon > missions. > > On second thought, we DO have to go back to the moon first to dig > up the > monolith, don't we... > > - R. What is this all about? Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 8 09:38:55 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k18HcPDp025117; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 09:38:26 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k18HcKU0025055; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 09:38:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 09:38:20 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060208121903.0352ea40@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 12:20:18 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: U.S. energy policy is a "Marshall Plan" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66327 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here is a good quote from today's N. Y. Times: http://select.nytimes.com/2006/02/08/opinion/08friedman.html "Everyone says we need a new Marshall Plan," said Michael Mandelbaum, a foreign policy expert and the author of "The Case for Goliath." "We have a Marshall Plan. It's our energy policy. It's a Marshall plan for terrorists and dictators." From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 8 10:42:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k18IgH6x027291; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 10:42:17 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k18IgEFt027248; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 10:42:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 10:42:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <001001c62cdf$511c82f0$0c2d010a@arghou.argcorp.argworldwide.com> From: "Craig Haynie" To: References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B0FD548@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060208101238.03493ec0@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Your Surrender has Been Ordered Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 18:41:47 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Feb 2006 18:41:47.0698 (UTC) FILETIME=[511F6920:01C62CDF] Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66328 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > The URL is difficult to enter, and the article is short and mainly quotes, > so I will take the liberty of uploading it. As Chris Zell says, it is > sadly defeatist. If they are honest conclusions, then how can they be considered 'defeatist'? That word implies a preconceived conclusion. Craig Haynie (Houston) From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 8 11:02:31 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k18J2IEu004468; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 11:02:19 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k18J2Fek004438; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 11:02:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 11:02:15 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 13:59:02 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: Your Surrender has Been Ordered In-reply-to: <001001c62cdf$511c82f0$0c2d010a@arghou.argcorp.argworldwide.com> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66329 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: They are fatalist instead of defeatist. Harry Craig Haynie wrote: >> The URL is difficult to enter, and the article is short and mainly quotes, >> so I will take the liberty of uploading it. As Chris Zell says, it is >> sadly defeatist. > > If they are honest conclusions, then how can they be considered 'defeatist'? > That word implies a preconceived conclusion. > > Craig Haynie (Houston) > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 8 12:02:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k18K2P4H002387; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 12:02:25 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k18K2Nwe002373; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 12:02:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 12:02:23 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <200602082002.k18K2M3j096799@mail2.mx.voyager.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 14:02:21 -0600 From: "OrionWorks" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: svj@orionworks.com Reply-To: svj@orionworks.com Subject: Re: Your Surrender has Been Ordered Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_0c8db4f02eece52be6338139e8c60048" X-Mailer: CoreComm Webmail X-IPAddress: 130.47.34.2 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66330 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=_0c8db4f02eece52be6338139e8c60048 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > From: Craig Haynie >> From Jed Rothwell >> The URL is difficult to enter, and the article is >> short and mainly quotes, so I will take the liberty of >> uploading it. As Chris Zell says, it is sadly defeatist. > If they are honest conclusions, then how can they be > considered 'defeatist'? > That word implies a preconceived conclusion. > >Craig Haynie (Houston) It is extremely "defeatist" due to the perceived conclusions they offer. Specifically, they express a perceived conclusion that there ain't no real substitute available now or in the foreseeable future that has the capacity to replace the petroleum products they want to continue selling to the world. How convenient for them. It will be business as usual, or so they hope. It's an even sadder state of affairs if they really are "honest conclusions." "Interdependence?" What the hell does that mean? I think it translates to: Petroleum prices will continue to increase, so there is no need for oil companies to squabble competitively with each other over kitchen scraps. There is enough food strewn on the floor to make the entire pack fat and happy - "interdependently". It's a paradigm issue. It's not within their paradigm to even consider the possibility that alternative forms of energy, i.e. CF, ZPE technology, or perhaps energy derived from the shrinking of those controversial little hydrinos could possibly enter into the equation and upset their predictably safe and ordered view of the world. After all, sticking it to the customer as worked so well in the past! Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com --=_0c8db4f02eece52be6338139e8c60048 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > From: Craig Haynie
>> From Jed Rothwell
>> The URL is difficult to enter, and the article is
>> short and mainly quotes, so I will take the liberty of
>> uploading it. As Chris Zell says, it is sadly defeatist.

> If they are honest conclusions, then how can they be
> considered 'defeatist'?
> That word implies a preconceived conclusion.
>
>Craig Haynie (Houston)

It is extremely "defeatist" due to the perceived conclusions they offer. Sp= ecifically, they express a perceived conclusion that there ain't no real su= bstitute available now or in the foreseeable future that has the capacity t= o replace the petroleum products they want to continue selling to the world= .

How convenient for them. It will be business as usual, or so they hope.

It's an even sadder state of affairs if they really are "honest conclusions= ." "Interdependence?" What the hell does that mean? I think it translates t= o: Petroleum prices will continue to increase, so there is no need for oil = companies to squabble competitively with each other over kitchen scraps. Th= ere is enough food strewn on the floor to make the entire pack fat and happ= y - "interdependently".

It's a paradigm issue. It's not within their paradigm to even consider the = possibility that alternative forms of energy, i.e. CF, ZPE technology, or p= erhaps energy derived from the shrinking of those controversial little hydr= inos could possibly enter into the equation and upset their predictably saf= e and ordered view of the world.

After all, sticking it to the customer as worked so well in the past!

Regards,
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
--=_0c8db4f02eece52be6338139e8c60048-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 8 12:37:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k18Kb7VR019156; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 12:37:07 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k18Kb6Mv019145; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 12:37:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 12:37:06 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <000f01c62cef$69663670$640fa8c0@MIKEBY3NR533HT> From: "Mike Carrell" To: References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B0FD548@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060208101238.03493ec0@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Your Surrender has Been Ordered Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 15:35:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: <3tSvcC.A.FrE.xZl6DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66331 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jed Rothwell" Subject: Re: Your Surrender has Been Ordered > The URL is difficult to enter, and the article is short and mainly quotes, > so I will take the liberty of uploading it. As Chris Zell says, it is > sadly defeatist. > > - Jed ----------------------------------------------- Or realistic and responsible, depending on your persepctive. At present, there is no way that the US will achieve energy indpendence in any time window less than many decades. For transportation by auto and aircraft there is no present substitute for oil. My caveat is "withou a radical change in US economy and lifestyle", which may be impossible given the contesting demands of social security and health care on the economic resources. Changing these latter items would be "radical changes". I have read all the arguments about biomass, wind, PV, nuclear, hydrogen storage, etc. and etc. ad nauseum. All these are part of an evolutionary solution to which the US will be forced to adapt without some other path open. As a last resort, oil has to be reserved as a petrochemical feedstock and for powering aircraft. It is conceivable that the US domentic oil sources might support air commerce. Everything else will have to be redesigned, including cars. All here hope for the emergence of the real hydrogen technologies, CF/LENR/CMNS and Blacklight Power. Mark Goldes has been making careful but optimistic noises about his magnetic technology, but it is not in the open after many years of work. As of 1Q 06, the path to even rudimentary useful systems is not visible, although Blacklight Power is arguably ahead of the pack. There are decades of vigorous entrepreneural effort before tlhere is any significant impact on the trasportation system. I'm not knocking Jed's visionary book or his long persistance in pushing the enterprise forward as best he can, or those that are doggedly working at the technology. As far as CF/LENR/CMNS is concerned, not only are really high energy events still not reliably produced, it is not clear what the **consumeables** in a working system are. Deuterium is cheap and available, but what if the target is rapidly "consumed" with need for expensive reactivation? Similar concerns exist for the Blacklight process. In many cases, provision must be made for recovery of the catalyst, else the 'fuel' gets costly. So please don't knock a CEO who tells the story as he legitimately sees it. The US energy infrastructure is a century old and shaped by oil. The way forward is painful, but necessary. Mike Carrell From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 8 12:38:41 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k18KcG4I019717; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 12:38:17 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k18KcDKs019668; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 12:38:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 12:38:13 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060208152531.034ade80@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 15:32:04 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Your Surrender has Been Ordered In-Reply-To: <200602082002.k18K2M3j096799@mail2.mx.voyager.net> References: <200602082002.k18K2M3j096799@mail2.mx.voyager.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66332 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: OrionWorks wrote: >It is extremely "defeatist" due to the perceived conclusions they >offer. Specifically, they express a perceived conclusion that there >ain't no real substitute available now or in the foreseeable future Actually they say ". . . the short or medium term." And they say "not feasible in any time period relevant to our discussion today" which is fuzzy for those of us who missed the discussion. The New York Times, on the other hand, was more forthright. It published a lead editorial saying energy independence is "an unattainable goal." (See the introduction to my book.) - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 8 13:09:20 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k18L8l6B002647; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 13:08:48 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k18L8fOh002585; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 13:08:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 13:08:41 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060208154925.034a42e8@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 16:07:40 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Your Surrender has Been Ordered In-Reply-To: <000f01c62cef$69663670$640fa8c0@MIKEBY3NR533HT> References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B0FD548@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060208101238.03493ec0@mindspring.com> <000f01c62cef$69663670$640fa8c0@MIKEBY3NR533HT> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66333 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mike Carrell wrote: >Or realistic and responsible, depending on your persepctive. At >present, there is no way that the US will achieve energy indpendence >in any time window less than many decades. I would bet one or two decades. If this oil executive met any duration longer than 20 years, his estimate was self-serving, not realistic. I am confident that if the US had begun an intense effort to develop energy independence in 1986, by now we would need only domestic oil. In fact, I think we would be a member of OPEC, exporting oil to Japan from Alaska. Hybrid electric plug and automobiles alone could easily do the trick and they could be implemented in less than 20 years. Here is how the schedule might work: 1. Year one. Begin transition at automobile factories, from conventional ICE plug-in hybrids. Toyota managed to do this in five years, so I suppose American manufacturers could do it in 10 years. 2. Year 10. Begin to phase out conventional ICE. 3. Year 15. All cars produced after this must be plug-in hybrid or fully electric. 4. Year 20. By this time nearly every remaining conventional ICE car would be scrapped. I believe 90% of the "fleet" turns over every eight years. This would not eliminate the use of oil, but since the US supplies about half of what it requires now this would certainly eliminate oil imports. Bear in mind the first hybrid automobile was patented in 1906. US industry could have done this -- and much more -- any time in the last 100 years. >For transportation by auto and aircraft there is no present >substitute for oil. No substitute is needed for "independence." To eliminate the threat of global warming you would need some sort of substitute such as hydrogen from nuclear or wind power. This would be a much larger undertaking. >My caveat is "without a radical change in US economy and lifestyle", >which may be impossible given the contesting demands of social >security and health care on the economic resources. I do not think it would cost anything. On the contrary, I think it would save money, and also the lives of many thousands of people killed by oil-funded terrorism. >As a last resort, oil has to be reserved as a petrochemical >feedstock and for powering aircraft. We could supply this much oil with recycling and organic sources such as garbage, using thermal depolymerization. Oil used for petrochemical feedstock, asphalt and the like is not lost. It is available for recycling, albeit at a cost. >So please don't knock a CEO who tells the story as he legitimately sees it. Knock, knock! The oil industry analysis I have seen seem about as legitimate as the information from Enron. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 8 13:44:06 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k18LhiNh018804; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 13:43:49 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k18Lhgww018770; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 13:43:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 13:43:42 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060208161411.034856f0@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 16:43:32 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Your Surrender has Been Ordered In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060208154925.034a42e8@mindspring.com> References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B0FD548@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060208101238.03493ec0@mindspring.com> <000f01c62cef$69663670$640fa8c0@MIKEBY3NR533HT> <7.0.1.0.2.20060208154925.034a42e8@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66334 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: People unfamiliar with plug-in hybrid technology may not realize the full impact of the program I described. See: http://www.calcars.org/ To make a long story short, after 20 years of development, these cars would probably get on the order of 200 to 1000 mpg. That is to say, miles per gallon of gasoline, plus a great deal of electricity, of course. Fortunately, in the US electricity is not generated with oil. During the 20-year span of this project we could build enough new, non-polluting electric power generation capacity to meet the needs of these cars. Today's automobiles get ~20 mpg. So if nearly every automobile and long-haul truck was a plug in hybrid, we would consume somewhere between 2% to 10% of what we consume today. U.S. production of oil is falling rapidly and irrevocably because we passed the height of Hubbard's curve in 1975, but even with this decrease we could easily meet the demand for 10% of today's consumption. Bear in mind also that if we began this project, the US would not be the only country rapidly converting to plug-in hybrids. Japan Europe and China would follow suit, because if they did not, GM and Ford would soon put their automobile manufacturers out of business. So after 20 years not only would US consumption fall by a factor of 10 or more, so would consumption nearly everywhere else in the world. This would bankrupt OPEC and Al Qaeda. Needless to say, plug-in hybrids are not the only way we could save oil and other sources of energy. There are many other technologies waiting in the wings. The cost, as I said, would be negative. As one expert put it, when describing the benefits of compact fluorescent lights, "this is not a free lunch: it is a lunch you are paid to eat." Not only does the improved hardware save energy, the hardware itself costs less over the lifetime of the product. This is usually the case with well-engineered, advanced technology. Any U.S. president or automobile CEO could have begun this project any time in the last 100 years, as I said. Certainly anytime since 1970. There is simply no excuse for continued energy shortages, high prices, pollution, wars for oil, and the "Marshall Plan for for terrorists and dictators." These things are caused by stupidity, greed, bad management and -- in the face of terrorism -- energy policy that is tantamount to treason. (These policies have been endorsed by both parties and the last six presidents, but I still think they are close to treason.) Myriad technical solutions to these problems have been available all along, in plain sight. These solutions are nowhere near as good as cold fusion, and they are at least a thousand times more expensive than cold fusion, but they could easily have ameliorated the problems. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 8 14:16:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k18MGD09001655; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 14:16:13 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k18MG87n001625; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 14:16:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 14:16:08 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 17:15:53 -0500 Message-Id: <8C7FB145C331599-20DC-D3C7@mblkn-m14.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <1c7.39de8a3d.311a3cdd@aol.com> <43E992BC.9070101@usfamily.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <43E992BC.9070101@usfamily.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Puthoff comments on Sarfati's letter Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.132 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66335 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: thomas malloy I sent Hal Puthoff a short excerpt of Jack Sarfati's letter. I inquired as to practical applications of ZPE technology, and whether the venue would be a domed stadium, to accommodate Jack's ego, I wonder if it would fit. Careful, Thomas, Sarfatti has ties to the Priory of Sion: http://www.qedcorp.com/pcr/pcr/sar.html Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 8 14:17:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k18MHaGS002678; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 14:17:36 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k18MHYdq002648; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 14:17:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 14:17:34 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 17:17:19 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C7FB148F96AF4D-20DC-D3D3@mblkn-m14.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <000001c62c82$b03769b0$66bcdc0a@RickSR1630> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: "...attempt no landing there..." Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.132 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66336 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Rick Monteverde On second thought, we DO have to go back to the moon first to dig up the monolith, don't we... <><><><><><> That was five years ago, surfer boy. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 8 15:43:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k18NgkU8005365; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 15:42:46 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k18NghbY005295; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 15:42:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 15:42:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <019101c62d09$31ba8220$a4b1e118@D54BYG11> Reply-To: "John Coviello" From: "John Coviello" To: References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B0FD548@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060208101238.03493ec0@mindspring.com> <000f01c62cef$69663670$640fa8c0@MIKEBY3NR533HT> <7.0.1.0.2.20060208154925.034a42e8@mindspring.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060208161411.034856f0@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Your Surrender has Been Ordered Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 18:41:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-From: johnwc@patmedia.net Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66337 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Those statement by the head of Exxon are a complete joke. Brazil has already proven that a large country can operate without foreign oil and other countries will soon follow such as Sweden and Iceland. The only thing stopping us from kicking our foreign oil habit is a lack of proper will and necessity. We have more than enough tools to dramtically reduce our oil consumption, if implemented sensibly. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jed Rothwell" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 4:43 PM Subject: Re: Your Surrender has Been Ordered > People unfamiliar with plug-in hybrid technology may not realize the full > impact of the program I described. See: > > http://www.calcars.org/ > > To make a long story short, after 20 years of development, these cars > would probably get on the order of 200 to 1000 mpg. That is to say, miles > per gallon of gasoline, plus a great deal of electricity, of course. > Fortunately, in the US electricity is not generated with oil. During the > 20-year span of this project we could build enough new, non-polluting > electric power generation capacity to meet the needs of these cars. > > Today's automobiles get ~20 mpg. So if nearly every automobile and > long-haul truck was a plug in hybrid, we would consume somewhere between > 2% to 10% of what we consume today. U.S. production of oil is falling > rapidly and irrevocably because we passed the height of Hubbard's curve in > 1975, but even with this decrease we could easily meet the demand for 10% > of today's consumption. > > Bear in mind also that if we began this project, the US would not be the > only country rapidly converting to plug-in hybrids. Japan Europe and China > would follow suit, because if they did not, GM and Ford would soon put > their automobile manufacturers out of business. So after 20 years not only > would US consumption fall by a factor of 10 or more, so would consumption > nearly everywhere else in the world. This would bankrupt OPEC and Al > Qaeda. > > Needless to say, plug-in hybrids are not the only way we could save oil > and other sources of energy. There are many other technologies waiting in > the wings. The cost, as I said, would be negative. As one expert put it, > when describing the benefits of compact fluorescent lights, "this is not a > free lunch: it is a lunch you are paid to eat." Not only does the improved > hardware save energy, the hardware itself costs less over the lifetime of > the product. This is usually the case with well-engineered, advanced > technology. > > Any U.S. president or automobile CEO could have begun this project any > time in the last 100 years, as I said. Certainly anytime since 1970. There > is simply no excuse for continued energy shortages, high prices, > pollution, wars for oil, and the "Marshall Plan for for terrorists and > dictators." These things are caused by stupidity, greed, bad management > and -- in the face of terrorism -- energy policy that is tantamount to > treason. (These policies have been endorsed by both parties and the last > six presidents, but I still think they are close to treason.) Myriad > technical solutions to these problems have been available all along, in > plain sight. These solutions are nowhere near as good as cold fusion, and > they are at least a thousand times more expensive than cold fusion, but > they could easily have ameliorated the problems. > > - Jed > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 8 16:03:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1903avk013773; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 16:03:36 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1903XW4013741; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 16:03:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 16:03:33 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <43EA86B7.7010407@usfamily.net> Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 18:03:03 -0600 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: fossils on Mars Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66338 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I heard this man interviewed on C to C AM. Click on the fossils link. I wonder if this is an example of seeing what you want to see, http://xenotechresearch.com/cgi/wp/index.php?cat=3 --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 8 16:27:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k190RWlY026177; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 16:27:32 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k190RUXB026169; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 16:27:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 16:27:30 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <01b201c62d0f$746519e0$a4b1e118@D54BYG11> Reply-To: "John Coviello" From: "John Coviello" To: "Vortex" Subject: Another Startling Announcement From BYU Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 19:26:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01AF_01C62CE5.8AF67B60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-From: johnwc@patmedia.net Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66339 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01AF_01C62CE5.8AF67B60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has BYU prof found AIDS cure? Compound could be long-sought breakthrough Researchers, including a BYU scientist, believe they have found a new = compound that could finally kill the HIV/AIDS virus, not just slow it = down as current treatments do.=20 And, unlike the expensive, drug cocktails 25 years of research have = produced for those with the deadly virus, the compound invented by Paul = D. Savage of Brigham Young University appears to hunt down and kill HIV. = Although so far limited to early test tube studies, CSA-54, one of a = family of compounds called Ceragenins (or CSAs), mimics the = disease-fighting characteristics of anti-microbial and anti-viral agents = produced naturally by a healthy human immune system.=20 Under a study sponsored by Ceragenix Pharmaceuticals, Savage and his = colleagues developed and synthesized the compound for Vanderbilt = University's School of Medicine. In his Nashville, Tenn., laboratories, = Derya Unutmaz, an associate professor of Microbiology and Immunology, = tested several CSAs for their ability to kill HIV.=20 While issuing a cautious caveat about his early results, Unutmaz = acknowledged Monday that CSAs could be the breakthrough HIV/AIDS = researchers have sought for so long.=20 "We received these agents [from BYU] in early October and our = initial results began to culminate by November 2005. We have since = reproduced all our results many times," he said. "We have some = preliminary but very exciting results [but] we would like to formally = show this before making any claims that would cause unwanted hype."=20 What studies to date show is a compound that attacks HIV at its = molecular membrane level, disrupting the virus from interacting with = their primary targets, the "T-helper" class white blood cells that = comprise and direct the human immune system. Further, CSAs appear to be = deadly to all known strains of HIV.=20 That would be a welcome development for the estimated 40.3 million = people now living with HIV/AIDS globally, including nearly 5 million = newly infected in the past year alone.=20 "We have devoted considerable resources to understand the mechanism = of these compounds. We think this knowledge will enable us in = collaboration with Dr. Savage to design even better compounds," Unutmaz = said.=20 In addition to being a potential checkmate to HIV, the compounds = show indications of being just as effective against other diseases = plaguing humankind - among them influenza, possibly even the dread bird = flu, along with smallpox and herpes.=20 Savage said he and his BYU research team had been studying CSAs for = eight years, noting the compounds' value against microbial and bacteria = infections. It was only a year ago they saw that CSAs killed viruses, = too.=20 "They kill viruses very effectively and in a way paralleling our = own, natural defenses," Savage said, noting that beyond the obvious use = as a weapon against the AIDS pandemic, CSAs could help many others with = non-HIV immune deficiencies.=20 Further, the compounds appear to have few limits on how they are = delivered to patients. Although early indications are for application=20 of CSAs with an ointment or cream, pills or injections may also be = developed - if the compound gets to market.=20 BYU and Vanderbilt have jointly filed a patent on CSA technology, = which has been licensed exclusively to Ceragenix.=20 Ceragenix CEO and Chairman Steven Porter said only further research = will tell, but he was optimistic about the application of CSAs in the = war on HIV/AIDS. There are indications that it could help battle = antibiotic- and antiviral-resistance strains of disease as they manifest = themselves.=20 "We are encouraged . . . that CSAs may provide a completely unique = family of anti-infectives, potentially active against a wide range of = viral, fungal and bacterial targets, including those resistant to = current therapies," he said.=20 Assuming continued positive test results in animal and eventual = human trials, Porter estimates it could be three to seven years before = the compound is available by prescription. That transition could be = accelerated, however, if the Food and Drug Administration should decide = to fast-track the drug.=20 That day is still a long way off, though. First, researchers plan to = publish their results in scientific journals, seeking peer review and = independent confirmation of their findings. Assuming no flaws are found, = several rounds of testing would follow.=20 Most of the nation's leading AIDS experts were attending the = Conference on Retroviruses and Opportunistic Infections in Denver on = Monday. The event's policies prohibits on-site news conferences or = releases during the conference, and efforts to reach scientists there = were not successful.=20 Of the few AIDS research luminaries reached, all said they preferred = not to comment on the Vanderbilt tests until full results are published. = bmims@sltrib.com=20 =20 =20 l Paul Savage and his Brigham Young University research team have = invented CSA-54, a chemical compound that holds the promise of killing = the HIV virus.=20 =20 l CSA-54 is one of a family of compounds called Ceragenins that mimic = the disease-fighting characteristics of a healthy human immune system.=20 =20 l Tests at Vanderbilt University indicate the BYU compound also could = be effective against influenza, small pox and herpes.=20 =20 l Assuming continued positive results, CSA-54 could be available in = three to seven years ------=_NextPart_000_01AF_01C62CE5.8AF67B60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------=_NextPart_000_01AF_01C62CE5.8AF67B60-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 8 17:41:53 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k191fb4h024239; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 17:41:37 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k191fZT7024200; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 17:41:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 17:41:35 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060208161411.034856f0@mindspring.com> References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B0FD548@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060208101238.03493ec0@mindspring.com> <000f01c62cef$69663670$640fa8c0@MIKEBY3NR533HT> <7.0.1.0.2.20060208154925.034a42e8@mindspring.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060208161411.034856f0@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <7442B0AF-9836-4DBE-8407-255464655F6B@mtaonline.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Your Surrender has Been Ordered Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 16:38:28 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66340 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Feb 8, 2006, at 12:43 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > These things are caused by stupidity, greed, bad management and -- > in the face of terrorism -- energy policy that is tantamount to > treason. (These policies have been endorsed by both parties and the > last six presidents, but I still think they are close to treason.) > Myriad technical solutions to these problems have been available > all along, in plain sight. You certainly have a good point there. Moving forward requires a substantial attitude change, the good old American "can do" attitude. This can do attitude is the opposite of that demonstrated by Exxon Mobil Senior Vice President Stuart McGill. A united political position that we have to break our addiction to foreign oil should go a long way toward the needed attitude change. A fully united position is not there yet, but with Bush's State of the Union address, the possibility of such a united front seems to be there for the first time. If driving big gas guzzlers is clearly unpatriotic, then most people won't do it. The rest can be handled by energy taxes collected to build a new energy infrastructure. The entire nation was mobilized in a few years to fight World War 2. It won't take that kind of full mobilization effort to achieve energy independence if we really get motivated and united. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 8 17:58:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k191wLHU031457; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 17:58:21 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k191wJJs031437; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 17:58:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 17:58:19 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060208100750.03493a10@mindspring.com> References: <7.0.0.16.2.20060127163153.034f8c80@mindspring.com> <000801c62629$f3832290$1714fea9@NuDell> <7.0.1.0.2.20060208100750.03493a10@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Correction to Mizuno paper about explosion Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 16:50:11 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66341 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Feb 8, 2006, at 6:11 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > Horace Heffner found a mistake in this paper: > > http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MizunoTanomalouse.pdf > > In Fig. 6, the x-axis should be Time/s (not Time/1000s). Mizuno > sent me a corrected version which is now uploaded. > > Horace was wondering whether there could have been a buildup of > hydrogen in the incubator. Mizuno confirmed my recollection that > the inside door of the incubator does not cover the entire front > surface so it is not a bit airtight, so this is ruled out. > > - Jed The door not fully covering the incubator does not rule out an incubator space explosion. In fact it only guarantees that some oxygen will be present (in the event the oxygen is otherwise consumed.) One thing remains fairly certain. The origin of the blast was not inside the Tygon coil. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 8 18:04:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k19248hO002662; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 18:04:08 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k19244Y6002606; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 18:04:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 18:04:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=G87rP63ueUAVNutEI3VglglPYXXTsWZhzFO1jncD3idqQ79ObpUU3trmEUgiP7xc; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220062492350547@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Your Surrender has Been Ordered Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 19:03:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940d85719bcc578bd7b6aabf4ead75989be350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.160.105 Resent-Message-ID: <3ydrvD.A.ho.SMq6DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66342 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Where have you been since the oil Embargo in the early 70s,Horace> We mobilized and brought viable and proven energy technologies ready for turnkey by the late 70s to mid eighties, only to have the door closed by the gas pipeline companies, and the electric power companies that had a glut of newly constructed coal and nuclear plants. Same song third verse in the White House Choir.. I ought to know, I lost my butt that mobilization. Fred > [Original Message] > From: Horace Heffner > To: > Date: 2/8/2006 6:42:24 PM > Subject: Re: Your Surrender has Been Ordered > > On Feb 8, 2006, at 12:43 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > > > These things are caused by stupidity, greed, bad management and -- > > in the face of terrorism -- energy policy that is tantamount to > > treason. (These policies have been endorsed by both parties and the > > last six presidents, but I still think they are close to treason.) > > Myriad technical solutions to these problems have been available > > all along, in plain sight. > > You certainly have a good point there. Moving forward requires a > substantial attitude change, the good old American "can do" > attitude. This can do attitude is the opposite of that demonstrated > by Exxon Mobil Senior Vice President Stuart McGill. A united > political position that we have to break our addiction to foreign oil > should go a long way toward the needed attitude change. A fully > united position is not there yet, but with Bush's State of the Union > address, the possibility of such a united front seems to be there for > the first time. If driving big gas guzzlers is clearly unpatriotic, > then most people won't do it. The rest can be handled by energy > taxes collected to build a new energy infrastructure. The entire > nation was mobilized in a few years to fight World War 2. It won't > take that kind of full mobilization effort to achieve energy > independence if we really get motivated and united. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 8 18:10:50 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k192AN1F008569; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 18:10:24 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k192ACsU008499; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 18:10:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 18:10:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=FcqAFhx5kKYwAmixmcqu73bCsJW6Xs+aASvX7WzkR7TBb3KP9IFNYzKNkkKMFSLy; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220062492104545@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re; Micro-Hydro Competitive With Solar? Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 19:10:04 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94010e6b28fc9862d4c0243efdb75c0884b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.160.105 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66343 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII While exploring the use of water power by the settlers in the late 18th to mid 19th centuries for running saw and grist mills around the Great Lakes area I came across EPA data that shows some of the watersheds feeding their streams were 10 to 16 square miles in area. The EPA concern is river and stream pollution from manure and other agricultural and municipal chemicals, including street and rooftop runoff. Even the tributaries feeding the streams were capable of generating several horsepower for short periods from water stored in dams/ponds. Equipped with low cost hydro turbines these small (~400 acre watershed) streams a few hundred watts could generate several thousand kilowatt-hours per year. ($320.00 worth at 8 cents/kilowatt-hour?) So, if you have ten 500 watt generators on ten tributaries feeding the stream that is powering two hydro generators generating 5 kilowatts each, and the last one generating 10 kilowatts, you get 25 kilowatts out of a 10,240 acre (16 square mile) watershed in an area that gets 36 or more inches of rainfall annually. Streams run at night and in cloudy /cold weather too. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
While exploring the use of water power by the settlers in the late 18th
to mid 19th centuries for running saw and grist mills around the Great Lakes area
I came across EPA data that shows some of the watersheds feeding their
streams were 10 to 16 square miles in area.
The EPA concern is river and stream pollution from manure and other agricultural
and municipal chemicals, including street and rooftop runoff.
 
Even the tributaries feeding the streams were capable of generating several
horsepower for short periods from water stored in dams/ponds.
Equipped with low cost hydro turbines these small (~400 acre watershed) streams
a few hundred watts could generate several thousand kilowatt-hours per year.
($320.00 worth at 8 cents/kilowatt-hour?)
 
So, if you have ten 500 watt generators on ten tributaries feeding
the stream that is powering two hydro generators generating 5 kilowatts
each, and the last one generating 10 kilowatts, you get 25 kilowatts
out of a 10,240 acre (16 square mile) watershed in an area that
gets 36 or more inches of rainfall annually.
 
Streams run at night and in cloudy /cold weather too.
 
Fred
 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 8 18:34:41 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k192R8Dn016436; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 18:27:09 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k192R0Bu016322; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 18:27:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 18:27:00 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f In-Reply-To: <410-220062492350547@earthlink.net> References: <410-220062492350547@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Your Surrender has Been Ordered Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 17:23:44 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: <8gX-dC.A.1-D.yhq6DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66344 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Feb 8, 2006, at 5:03 PM, Frederick Sparber wrote: > Where have you been since the oil Embargo in the early 70s,Horace> In Alaska where the oil is. 8^) > > We mobilized and brought viable and proven energy technologies > ready for > turnkey by the late 70s to mid eighties, only to have the door closed > by the gas pipeline companies, and the electric power companies that > had a glut of newly constructed coal and nuclear plants. > > Same song third verse in the White House Choir.. > > I ought to know, I lost my butt that mobilization. > > Fred > This just goes to prove has never been a united front. We also did not have peak oil or the international problems to the extent we do now. Further, anyone pointing to the problems of global warming in the 70's would have been branded a lunatic. Based on the State of the Union address, there is now a chance, just a chance, things will change. The election year coming up will probably largely decide. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 8 18:37:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k192ba5L021796; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 18:37:36 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k192bYKB021774; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 18:37:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 18:37:34 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 21:34:25 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: fossils on Mars In-reply-to: <43EA86B7.7010407@usfamily.net> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_FZv1S9LhDZKzgSDjaff6xg)" User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66345 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --Boundary_(ID_FZv1S9LhDZKzgSDjaff6xg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT thomas malloy wrote: > I heard this man interviewed on C to C AM. Click on the fossils link. I > wonder if this is an example of seeing what you want to see, > http://xenotechresearch.com/cgi/wp/index.php?cat=3 > > > --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- > http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- > Probably. The 20th century artist Max Ernst uses the power of "seeing what you want to see" in his art. Max Ernst: "...in my personal development this method, which is based on nothing less than the intensification of the excitability of the mental faculties and which, in view of this technique, I should like to call frottage, perhaps played a greater role than collage, from which I truthfully believe it does not differ fundamentally. Starting with a childhood memory in which a panel of imitation mahogany opposite my bed had played the role of optical stimulant of a vision I had while half asleep, and finding myself, on a rainy day in a hotel at the seashore (Pornic, August 1925), I was struck by the obsession exerted on my gaze by the panel, whose grooves had been deepened by a thousand washings. I then decided to examine the symbolism of this obsession...I made a series of drawings from the pieces of wood by haphazardly placing sheets of paper on them, which I undertook to rub [frotter in French] with black lead pencil. I emphasise the fact that the drawings obtained in this manner increasingly lost...the character of the material tested [the wood] and acquired the appearance of images of an undreamed-of precision which was probably of such a nature as to reveal the primary cause of the obsession or to produce a semblance of that cause. With wideawake, wonder-struck curiousity, I tested all kinds of materials...leaves and theirs veins, the frayed edges of sacking, the knife strokes of a modern painting. a thread unrolled from a bobbin, and so on...I assembled the first results obtained under the title Histoire Naturelle." Harry --Boundary_(ID_FZv1S9LhDZKzgSDjaff6xg) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Re: fossils on Mars thomas malloy wrote:

> I heard this man interviewed on C to C AM. Click on the fossils link. I
> wonder if this is an example of seeing what you want to see,
> http://xenotechresearch.com/cgi/wp/index.php?cat=3
>
>
> --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! --
> http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! ---
>

Probably.
The 20th century artist Max Ernst uses the power of "seeing what you
want to see" in his art.

Max Ernst: "...in my personal development this method, which is
based on nothing less than the intensification of the excitability of the
mental faculties and which, in view of this technique, I should like to call
frottage, perhaps played a greater role than collage, from which I truthfully
believe it does not differ fundamentally. Starting with a childhood memory
in which a panel of imitation mahogany opposite my bed had played the role
of optical stimulant of a vision I had while half asleep, and finding
myself, on a rainy day in a hotel at the seashore (Pornic, August 1925), I
was struck by the obsession exerted on my gaze by the panel, whose grooves
had been deepened by a thousand washings. I then decided to examine the
symbolism of this obsession...I made a series of drawings from the pieces of
wood by haphazardly placing sheets of paper on them, which I undertook to
rub [frotter in French] with black lead pencil. I emphasise the fact that the drawings
obtained in this manner increasingly lost...the character of the material
tested [the wood] and acquired the appearance of images of an undreamed-of
precision which was probably of such a nature as to reveal the primary cause
of the obsession or to produce a semblance of that cause. With wideawake,
wonder-struck curiousity, I tested all kinds of materials...leaves and
theirs veins, the frayed edges of sacking, the knife strokes of a modern
painting. a thread unrolled from a bobbin, and so on...I assembled the
first results obtained under the title Histoire Naturelle."

Harry --Boundary_(ID_FZv1S9LhDZKzgSDjaff6xg)-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 8 18:40:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k192eAbS023179; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 18:40:10 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k192e7fn023156; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 18:40:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 18:40:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <01c001c62d1d$e9fe0c80$a4b1e118@D54BYG11> Reply-To: "John Coviello" From: "John Coviello" To: References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B0FD548@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060208101238.03493ec0@mindspring.com> <000f01c62cef$69663670$640fa8c0@MIKEBY3NR533HT> <7.0.1.0.2.20060208154925.034a42e8@mindspring.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060208161411.034856f0@mindspring.com> <7442B0AF-9836-4DBE-8407-255464655F6B@mtaonline.net> Subject: Re: Your Surrender has Been Ordered Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 21:09:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-From: johnwc@patmedia.net Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66346 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Horace Heffner" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 8:38 PM Subject: Re: Your Surrender has Been Ordered > On Feb 8, 2006, at 12:43 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > >> These things are caused by stupidity, greed, bad management and -- in >> the face of terrorism -- energy policy that is tantamount to treason. >> (These policies have been endorsed by both parties and the last six >> presidents, but I still think they are close to treason.) Myriad >> technical solutions to these problems have been available all along, in >> plain sight. > > You certainly have a good point there. Moving forward requires a > substantial attitude change, the good old American "can do" attitude. > This can do attitude is the opposite of that demonstrated by Exxon Mobil > Senior Vice President Stuart McGill. A united political position that we > have to break our addiction to foreign oil should go a long way toward > the needed attitude change. A fully united position is not there yet, > but with Bush's State of the Union address, the possibility of such a > united front seems to be there for the first time. If driving big gas > guzzlers is clearly unpatriotic, then most people won't do it. The rest > can be handled by energy taxes collected to build a new energy > infrastructure. The entire nation was mobilized in a few years to fight > World War 2. It won't take that kind of full mobilization effort to > achieve energy independence if we really get motivated and united. > All part of the ongoing propaganda campaign by big oil to keep all competitors from challenging their dominance. If the leaders of Exxon Mobil are on board with the prevailing opinion that we can kick our foreign oil habit, then the debate is over. They want to keep hope alive for their dirty and dying industry. Thankfully for us, oil will eventually go the way of the eight track tape and we will move on to a cleaner more sustainable energy regime with or without the Exxon Mobil's of the world. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 8 18:51:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k192pXsB028513; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 18:51:34 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k192pWZC028497; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 18:51:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 18:51:32 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=eTUp9/YLpmvNdEHAN8qbfUSIu/EidwopsZVeviUxuBDfa4VlCSvjeeFhUsK0i4z5; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220062492511061@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re; Micro-Hydro Competitive With Solar? Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 19:51:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94057776337ce824df70901575a5aa119b9350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.165.150 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66347 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Picking any area that has the ri9ght watershed terrain and adequate annual rainfall is a breeze using Mapquest maps (major streams are shown at zoom levels 8 & 7 that cover a few square miles) and Topozone. A pond in the right place is a practical way of storing sunlight. http://www.mapquest.com/maps/ Topzone shows local elevations and streams also: www.topozone.com While exploring the use of water power by the settlers in the late 18th to mid 19th centuries for running saw and grist mills around the Great Lakes area I came across EPA data that shows some of the watersheds feeding their streams were 10 to 16 square miles in area. The EPA concern is river and stream pollution from manure and other agricultural and municipal chemicals, including street and rooftop runoff. Even the tributaries feeding the streams were capable of generating several horsepower for short periods from water stored in dams/ponds. Equipped with low cost hydro turbines these small (~400 acre watershed) streams capable of a few hundred watts could generate several thousand kilowatt-hours per year. ($320.00 worth at 8 cents/kilowatt-hour?) So, if you have ten 500 watt generators on ten tributaries feeding the stream that is powering two hydro generators generating 5 kilowatts each, and the last one generating 10 kilowatts, you get 25 kilowatts out of a 10,240 acre (16 square mile) watershed in an area that gets 36 or more inches of rainfall annually. Streams run at night and in cloudy /cold weather too. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Picking any area that has the ri9ght watershed terrain and adequate annual rainfall
is a breeze using Mapquest maps (major streams are shown at zoom levels
8 & 7 that cover a few square miles) and Topozone.
 
A pond in the right place is a practical way of storing sunlight.
 
 
Topzone shows local elevations and streams also:
 
While exploring the use of water power by the settlers in the late 18th
to mid 19th centuries for running saw and grist mills around the Great Lakes area
I came across EPA data that shows some of the watersheds feeding their
streams were 10 to 16 square miles in area.
The EPA concern is river and stream pollution from manure and other agricultural
and municipal chemicals, including street and rooftop runoff.
 
Even the tributaries feeding the streams were capable of generating several
horsepower for short periods from water stored in dams/ponds.
Equipped with low cost hydro turbines these small (~400 acre watershed) streams
capable of a few hundred watts could generate several thousand kilowatt-hours per year.
($320.00 worth at 8 cents/kilowatt-hour?)
 
So, if you have ten 500 watt generators on ten tributaries feeding
the stream that is powering two hydro generators generating 5 kilowatts
each, and the last one generating 10 kilowatts, you get 25 kilowatts
out of a 10,240 acre (16 square mile) watershed in an area that
gets 36 or more inches of rainfall annually.
 
Streams run at night and in cloudy /cold weather too.
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 8 19:57:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k193vLsw024558; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 19:57:22 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k193vK6w024540; Wed, 8 Feb 2006 19:57:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 19:57:20 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <000c01c62d2c$e38e90e0$a3037841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: Re: Another Startling Announcement from BYU Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 21:57:03 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C62CFA.98447FF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2005-06-05) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66348 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C62CFA.98447FF0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0009_01C62CFA.98460690" ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C62CFA.98460690 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank Ceragenix Pharma, Osmotics Inc, Alaskian Bingo gambling, Osmotics = Pharma. Check 'em on Edgar Yahoo. We also have an supposedly up and coming California cold fusion company = that started out in the used car business in New Jersey. I love it. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C62CFA.98460690 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
 

Ceragenix Pharma, Osmotics Inc, Alaskian Bingo gambling, Osmotics = Pharma.=20 Check 'em on Edgar Yahoo.

 We also have an supposedly up and coming California cold fusion = company=20 that started out in the used car business in New Jersey.

I love it.

Richard

------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C62CFA.98460690-- ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C62CFA.98447FF0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000701c62d2c$e2d2baf0$a3037841@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C62CFA.98447FF0-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 9 03:55:08 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k19Bsp1I026860; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 03:54:52 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k19Bsnq6026826; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 03:54:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 03:54:49 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Elz3BtNy1BSNb+d1oHTVrkvVvSiEBwe+D6BJVLCx2ldUasVwv2AzFeEbTlox5MCc; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200624911543586@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Micro-Hydro Competitive with Solar Photovoltaic & Wind? Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 04:54:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940af334397eb92db63c8a08bf39cb6ff38350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.133 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66349 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII A modest stream fed by 10,240 acres of watershed, about 4 miles in length will handle about 30,000 acre-ft (56 million cubic feet annually) or several hundred cubic feet/minute during high run-off. A modest stream-bed slope is about 4 feet/1,000 ft run, implying that "gates" to raise the water 2 to 4 feet placed every 1,000 feet, rather than permanent dams, can supply the hydrostatic head for powering the micro-turbine generator. Inexpensive, adjustable,"Gates" can be made using heavy-duty plastic film, and steel cables, anchor posts. Rule-of-thumb; ft head x cfm flow x efficiency = electrical watts. IOW, 2 ft head at 1.0 cfm (7.48 gpm, 0.43 psi head) @ 75% efficiency = 2.0 watts. OTOH, 16 such turbine generators on a 3 to 4 mile stream averaging 75 cfm would deliver 2.5 kilowatts continuously, or 22,000 kW-hrs or about $2,000.00 worth of electricity annually. Plastic water turbines capable of a few hundred watts turbine shaft rpm-torque should be cheap enough, same for permanent magnet D.C. motors/generators. The generator output (high voltage inverter) can be coupled to a common bus "grid" using a cable laid in the stream. 25,000 kilowatt-hrs per year will electrolyze enough water to make 1,000 pounds of hydrogen per year. The energy equivalent of 500 gallons of fuel for a gasoline engine More for a fuel cell. Streams still flow, under the snow when the sun don't shine and the winds don't blow. You can quote me on that. :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
A modest stream fed by 10,240 acres of watershed,
about 4 miles in length will handle about 30,000 acre-ft
(56 million cubic feet annually) or several hundred cubic feet/minute during
high run-off.
 
A modest stream-bed slope is about 4 feet/1,000 ft run,
implying that "gates" to raise the water 2 to 4 feet placed every 1,000
feet, rather than permanent dams, can supply the hydrostatic head for
powering the micro-turbine generator.
 
Inexpensive, adjustable,"Gates" can be made using
heavy-duty plastic film, and steel cables, anchor posts.
 
Rule-of-thumb;  ft head x cfm flow x efficiency = electrical watts.
 
IOW, 2 ft head at 1.0 cfm (7.48 gpm, 0.43 psi head) @ 75% efficiency = 2.0 watts. 
 
OTOH, 16 such turbine generators on a 3 to 4  mile stream averaging 75 cfm
would deliver 2.5 kilowatts continuously, or 22,000 kW-hrs
or about $2,000.00 worth of electricity annually.
 
Plastic water turbines capable of a few hundred watts turbine
shaft rpm-torque should be cheap enough, same for permanent magnet
D.C. motors/generators.
 
The generator output (high voltage inverter) can be coupled to a common
bus "grid" using a cable laid in the stream.
 
25,000 kilowatt-hrs per year will electrolyze enough water to make 1,000 pounds
of hydrogen per year. The energy equivalent of 500 gallons of fuel for a gasoline engine
More for a fuel cell.
 
Streams still flow,
under the snow
when the sun don't shine
and the winds don't blow.
 
You can quote me on that.  :-)
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 9 11:25:16 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k19JOanX013756; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 11:24:36 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k19JOX0X013726; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 11:24:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 11:24:33 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: ThomasClark123@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 14:24:25 EST Subject: Efficient Joseph R. Zubris electric motor patents No. 3,809,978 & other patents To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1139513065" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66350 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1139513065 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "1969 Joseph R. Zubris electric motor patent No. 3,809,978 with a unique wirting system that cut the energy drain at starting to 75 percent of normal and doubleed the electrical efficiency of the electric motor when operating. Quoted from The Lost Journals of Nikola Tesla Harrp-- Chemtrails and the Secret of Alternative 4 Tim Swartz Global Communicatoins conspiracyjournal.com, Pg. 114 to 115." "1970 Ev-Gray generator which intensified battery current, the voltage being induced ot the field coils by a very simple programmer sequencer. By allowing the motor to charge seperate batteries as the device ran, phenomenally tiny currents were needed. The device was tested at the Crosby Research Institute of Bevery Hills, Ca., a 10 Horsepower EMA motor ran for over a week (9days) on four standard automobile batteries. The inventors estimated that a 50-horsepower electric motor could traverse 300 miles at 50 mph before needing a re-charge. Quoted from The Lost Journals of Nikola Tesla Harrp-- Chemtrails and the Secret of Alternative 4 Tim Swartz Global Communicatoins conspiracyjournal.com, Pg. 114 to 115." -------------------------------1139513065 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "1969 Joseph R. Zubris electric motor patent  No. 3,809,978 with a u= nique wirting system that cut the energy drain at starting to 75 percent of=20= normal and doubleed the electrical efficiency of the electric motor when ope= rating. Quoted from The Lost Journals of Nikola Tesla Harrp-- Chemtr= ails and the Secret of Alternative 4  Tim Swartz Global Communicatoins=20= conspiracyjournal.com, Pg.  114 to 115."=20

"1970 Ev-Gray generator which intensified battery current, the volt= age being induced ot the field coils by a very simple programmer sequencer.&= nbsp; By allowing the motor to charge seperate batteries as the device ran,=20= phenomenally tiny currents were needed.  The device was tested at the C= rosby Research Institute of Bevery Hills, Ca., a 10 Horsepower EMA motor ran= for over a week (9days) on four standard automobile batteries.  The in= ventors estimated that a 50-horsepower electric motor could traverse 300 mil= es at 50 mph before needing a re-charge. Quoted from The Lost Journa= ls of Nikola Tesla Harrp-- Chemtrails and the Secret of Alternative 4 =20= Tim Swartz Global Communicatoins conspiracyjournal.com, Pg.  114 to 115= ."
-------------------------------1139513065-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 9 11:25:31 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k19JOrqQ013918; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 11:24:53 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k19JOkJ6013852; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 11:24:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 11:24:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: ThomasClark123@aol.com Message-ID: <27d.56ed28f.311cf0ec@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 14:24:28 EST Subject: Using atomic hydrogen and helium gas to make free energy To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1139513068" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66353 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1139513068 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Using hydrogen and helium gas to make free energy In atomic hydrogen welding, "and the atomic hydrogen process, hydrogen is not really a fuel, but rather a medium used in the extraction of and conversion of energy from the ether, by transforming invisible radiation and electrical energy into infrared heat radiation. No wonder the process went out of use. With this process a home consumer would pay nothing for fuel, because he could produce a small amount of hydrogen in his basement, any time he needed it, and he could use it over and over, ad infinitum. .. The heat from atomic hydrogen is free, except unlike sunshine you could produce as much as you want... Pg. 90 and Pg. 91. I have shown that the input energy of 103 cal./gram molecule is somehow either magnified to 109,00 cal/gram molecule of hydrogen as a medium, that the 103 calories is seed energy called the activation energy, triggering the atomic hydrogen's apprehension of a net 108,897 cal./gram molecule, from the "ether". An equally phenomenal atomic helium process reported in Space Aliens is 4.6 times this output. Quoted from Occult Ether Physics Teslas Hidden Space Propulsion System and the Conspiracy to Conceal It By William Lyne, Pg. 90,91,96" -------------------------------1139513068 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Using hydrogen and helium gas to make free energy<= /DIV>
 
In atomic hydrogen welding, "and the atomic hydrogen process, hydrogen=20= is not really a fuel, but rather a medium used in the extraction of and conv= ersion of energy from the ether, by transforming invisible radiation and ele= ctrical energy into infrared heat radiation.  No wonder the process wen= t out of use. With this process a home consumer would pay nothing for fuel,=20= because he could produce a small amount of hydrogen in his basement, any tim= e he needed  it, and he could use it over and over, ad infinitum. .. Th= e heat from atomic hydrogen is free, except unlike sunshine you could produc= e as much as you want... Pg. 90 and Pg. 91.  I have shown that the inpu= t energy of 103 cal./gram molecule is somehow either magnified to 109,00 cal= /gram molecule of hydrogen as a medium, that the 103 calories is seed energy= called the activation energy, triggering the atomic hydrogen's apprehension= of a net 108,897 cal./gram molecule, from the "ether". An equally phenomena= l atomic helium process reported in Space Aliens is 4.6 times this output.&n= bsp; Quoted from Occult Ether Physics Teslas Hidden Space Propulsion= System and the Conspiracy to Conceal It  By William Lyne, Pg. 90,91,96= "
-------------------------------1139513068-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 9 11:36:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k19JOsW4013921; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 11:24:54 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k19JOkE0013847; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 11:24:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 11:24:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: ThomasClark123@aol.com Message-ID: <80.376e2f8b.311cf0ee@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 14:24:30 EST Subject: Using atomic hydrogen and helium gas to make free energy To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1139513070" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66352 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1139513070 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Using hydrogen and helium gas to make free energy In atomic hydrogen welding, "and the atomic hydrogen process, hydrogen is not really a fuel, but rather a medium used in the extraction of and conversion of energy from the ether, by transforming invisible radiation and electrical energy into infrared heat radiation. No wonder the process went out of use. With this process a home consumer would pay nothing for fuel, because he could produce a small amount of hydrogen in his basement, any time he needed it, and he could use it over and over, ad infinitum. .. The heat from atomic hydrogen is free, except unlike sunshine you could produce as much as you want... Pg. 90 and Pg. 91. I have shown that the input energy of 103 cal./gram molecule is somehow either magnified to 109,00 cal/gram molecule of hydrogen as a medium, that the 103 calories is seed energy called the activation energy, triggering the atomic hydrogen's apprehension of a net 108,897 cal./gram molecule, from the "ether". An equally phenomenal atomic helium process reported in Space Aliens is 4.6 times this output. Quoted from Occult Ether Physics Teslas Hidden Space Propulsion System and the Conspiracy to Conceal It By William Lyne, Pg. 90,91,96" -------------------------------1139513070 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Using hydrogen and helium gas to make free energy<= /DIV>
 
In atomic hydrogen welding, "and the atomic hydrogen process, hydrogen=20= is not really a fuel, but rather a medium used in the extraction of and conv= ersion of energy from the ether, by transforming invisible radiation and ele= ctrical energy into infrared heat radiation.  No wonder the process wen= t out of use. With this process a home consumer would pay nothing for fuel,=20= because he could produce a small amount of hydrogen in his basement, any tim= e he needed  it, and he could use it over and over, ad infinitum. .. Th= e heat from atomic hydrogen is free, except unlike sunshine you could produc= e as much as you want... Pg. 90 and Pg. 91.  I have shown that the inpu= t energy of 103 cal./gram molecule is somehow either magnified to 109,00 cal= /gram molecule of hydrogen as a medium, that the 103 calories is seed energy= called the activation energy, triggering the atomic hydrogen's apprehension= of a net 108,897 cal./gram molecule, from the "ether". An equally phenomena= l atomic helium process reported in Space Aliens is 4.6 times this output.&n= bsp; Quoted from Occult Ether Physics Teslas Hidden Space Propulsion= System and the Conspiracy to Conceal It  By William Lyne, Pg. 90,91,96= "
-------------------------------1139513070-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 9 11:38:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k19JP3S3013993; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 11:25:03 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k19JOhDb013808; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 11:24:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 11:24:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: ThomasClark123@aol.com Message-ID: <27c.56e979a.311cf0eb@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 14:24:27 EST Subject: Magnetic Car Motor Patent That Works To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1139513067" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <0P7L7C.A.iXD.5b56DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66351 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1139513067 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "H.R. Johnson patent No. 4,151,431 on April 24, 1979 permanent magnetic motor. Mr. Johnson has arranged a series of permanent magnets on the rotor and a corresponding series - with different spacing - on the stator. One simply has to move the stator into position and rotation of the rotor begins immediately. Johnson's patent states : " The invention is directed to the method of utilizing the unpaired electron spins in ferromagnetic and other materials as a source of magnetic fields for producing power without any electron flow as occurs in normal conductors and to permanent magnet motors for utilization of this method to produce a power source. ..the unpaired electron spins occurring within permanent magnets are used to produce a motive power source solely through the superconducting characteristics of a permanent magnet and the magnetic flux created by the magnets are controlled and concentrated to orient the magnetic forces generated in such as manner to useful continuos work such as the displacement of a rotor with respect to a stator. The timing and orientation of special magnetic forces at the rotor and stator components produced by permanent magnets to produce a motor is accomplished with the proper geometrical relationship of these components. Engineers of Hitachi Magnetics Corp. of California have stated that a motor run solely by magnets is feasible and logical but the politics of the matter make it impossible for the to pursue the developing a magnetic motor or any device that would compete with the energy cartels. Quoted from The Lost Journals of Nikola Tesla Harrp-- Chemtrails and the Secret of Alternative 4 Tim Swartz Global Communications conspiracyjournal.com, Pg. 114 to 115." -------------------------------1139513067 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "H.R. Johnson patent No. 4,151,431 on April 24, 1979 permanent magnetic m= otor.  Mr. Johnson has arranged a series of permanent magnets on the ro= tor and a corresponding series - with different spacing - on the stator.&nbs= p; One simply has to move the stator into position and rotation of the rotor= begins immediately.  Johnson's patent states :  " The invention i= s directed to the method of utilizing the unpaired electron spins in ferroma= gnetic and other materials as a source of magnetic fields for producing powe= r without any electron flow as occurs in normal conductors and to permanent=20= magnet motors for utilization of this method to produce a power source. = ;   ..the unpaired electron spins occurring within permanent magne= ts  are used to produce a motive power source solely through the superc= onducting characteristics of a permanent magnet and the magnetic flux create= d by the magnets are controlled and concentrated  to orient the magneti= c forces generated in such as manner to useful continuos work such as the di= splacement  of a rotor with respect to a stator.   The timing= and orientation of special magnetic forces at the rotor and stator componen= ts produced by permanent magnets to produce a motor is accomplished with the= proper geometrical relationship of these components.  Engineers of Hit= achi Magnetics Corp. of California have stated that a motor run solely by ma= gnets is feasible and logical but the politics of the matter make it impossi= ble for the to pursue the developing a magnetic motor or any device that wou= ld compete with the energy cartels.  Quoted from The Lost Journals of N= ikola Tesla Harrp-- Chemtrails and the Secret of Alternative 4  Tim Swa= rtz Global Communications conspiracyjournal.com, Pg.  114 to 115." -------------------------------1139513067-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 9 11:38:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k19JcL65022317; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 11:38:21 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k19JcFRU022259; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 11:38:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 11:38:15 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060209141727.034e02a0@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2006 14:18:01 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: "Energy Amplifier" subcritical reactor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66354 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A nifty idea. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_amplifier - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 9 12:04:03 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k19K3cs4003703; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 12:03:38 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k19K3WUn003647; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 12:03:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 12:03:32 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: ThomasClark123@aol.com Message-ID: <2b3.44a3f55.311cfa08@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 15:03:20 EST Subject: Re: Your Surrender has Been Ordered To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1139515400" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66355 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1139515400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/8/2006 9:41:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, johnwc@patmedia.net writes: Moving forward requires a > substantial attitude change, the good old American "can do" attitude. > This can do attitude is the opposite of that demonstrated by Exxon Mobil > Senior Vice President Stuart McGill. A united political position that we > have to break our addiction to foreign oil should go a long way toward > the needed attitude change. A fully united position is not there yet, > but with Bush's State of the Union address, the possibility of such a > united front seems to be there for the first time. According to the Alternative 4 theory (4 Alternatives to avoid global warming), the elite and rich on Earth found that they may not be able to travel to Mars to escape global warming, and hence they may have to stop global warming on Earth by using magnetic car motors and other nonpolluting technologies as are available presently by patent (H.R. Johnson patent No. 4,151,431 on April 24, 1979 permanent magnetic motor) and are feasible according to Hitachi Motor Co. The Harp and Tesla energy beam technologies have been secretly used to cool the atmosphere to reduce global warming. Even though Tesla discovered through his radio communications with E.T.'s and time travelers, that there were groups trying to create an ice age on Earth by means of encouraging global warming through the use of fossil fuels, there are groups of E.T.'s associated with the Creator of the Universe at the Center of the Universe, who have sent designs of magnetic technologies to us- http://users.rcn.com/zap.dnai/master.pdf, so that some E.T.'s are friendly, and want us to use magnetic technologies to end global warming and prevent an ice age so that Earth remains habitable on the surface. -------------------------------1139515400 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 2/8/2006 9:41:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, johnwc@pa= tmedia.net writes:
Moving forward requires a
> substantial= attitude change, the good old American "can do"  attitude.
> Th= is can do attitude is the opposite of that demonstrated  by Exxon Mobil=
> Senior Vice President Stuart McGill.  A united  politica= l position that we
> have to break our addiction to foreign oil = should go a long way toward
> the needed attitude change.  A fu= lly  united position is not there yet,
> but with Bush's State o= f the Union  address, the possibility of such a
> united front s= eems to be there for  the first time.
According to the Alternative 4 theory (4 Alternatives to avoid global w= arming), the elite and rich on Earth found that they may not be able to trav= el to Mars to escape global warming, and hence they may have to stop global=20= warming on Earth by using magnetic car motors and other nonpolluting technol= ogies as are available presently by patent (H.R. Johnson patent No. 4,1= 51,431 on April 24, 1979 permanent magnetic motor) and are feasible acc= ording to Hitachi Motor Co.  The Harp and Tesla energy beam techno= logies have been secretly used to cool the atmosphere to reduce global warmi= ng.  Even though Tesla discovered through his radio communications with= E.T.'s and time travelers, that there were groups trying to create an=20= ice age on Earth by means of encouraging global warming through the use= of fossil fuels, there are groups of E.T.'s associated with the Creator of=20= the Universe at the Center of the Universe, who have sent designs of magneti= c technologies to us- h= ttp://users.rcn.com/zap.dnai/master.pdf, so that some E.T.'s are friendl= y, and want us to use magnetic technologies to end global warming and preven= t an ice age so that Earth remains habitable on the surface.
 
-------------------------------1139515400-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 9 12:18:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k19KId20011790; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 12:18:40 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k19KIbPO011758; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 12:18:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 12:18:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: ThomasClark123@aol.com Message-ID: <210.1299b8da.311cfd95@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 15:18:29 EST Subject: Re: fossils on Mars To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1139516309" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66356 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1139516309 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/8/2006 7:04:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, temalloy@usfamily.net writes: I heard this man interviewed on C to C AM. Click on the fossils link. I wonder if this is an example of seeing what you want to see, http://xenotechresearch.com/cgi/wp/index.php?cat=3 What looks like rivers on mars are actually huge domed cities, which are covered and uncovered by sand storms. Many of the NASA pictures are doctored to hide the fact that plants and animals exist on Mars presently. Mars is also being terraformed presently by aliens according to Dr. Richard Boylan Reports. When the NASA astronauts landed on the Moon they were greeted by US, British, French, and Russian flying saucers and bases already on the moon. The NASA space program was used to continue building bases on the Moon to travel to Mars. The US secretly traveled to mars around 1962. But apparently relations between Mars and Earth do not seem to be so friendly lately, unless this is being used as a cover, to discourage Earth societies from thinking that they can travel to Mars to avoid global warming problems on Earth. -------------------------------1139516309 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 2/8/2006 7:04:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, temalloy@= usfamily.net writes:
I heard this man interviewed on C to C AM. Cli= ck on the fossils link. I
wonder if this is an example of seeing what yo= u want to see,
http://xenotechresearch.com/cgi/wp/index.php?cat=3D3
What looks like rivers on mars are actually huge domed cities, which ar= e covered and uncovered by sand storms.  Many of the NASA pictures are=20= doctored to hide the fact that plants and animals exist on Mars presently.&n= bsp; Mars is also being terraformed presently by aliens according to Dr. Ric= hard Boylan Reports.   When the NASA astronauts landed on the Moon= they were greeted by US, British, French, and Russian flying saucers and&nb= sp;bases already on the moon.  The NASA space program was used to conti= nue building bases on the Moon to travel to Mars.   The US secretl= y traveled to mars around 1962.  But apparently relations between Mars=20= and Earth do not seem to be so friendly lately, unless this is being used as= a cover, to discourage Earth societies from thinking that they can tra= vel to Mars to avoid global warming problems on Earth.
-------------------------------1139516309-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 9 13:02:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k19L1r8v002210; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 13:01:53 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k19L1oeN002185; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 13:01:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 13:01:50 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: ThomasClark123@aol.com Message-ID: <2a0.53a49bd.311d07b2@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 16:01:38 EST Subject: Re: Message for Thomas Clark To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1139518898" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66357 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1139518898 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/4/2006 12:37:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, hohlrauml6d@netscape.net writes: -----Original Message----- From: ThomasClark123@aol.com I have not slept at all in my life as far as I can tell, and I seem to enter a virtual reality world generated by computer systems on Earth when I become entranced into a state that looks like sleep but it is not, so that I may dream while I am awake. <><><><><><><><> This sounds much like Thomas Hunter's situation in Ted Dekker's book "Black". http://teddekker.com/?content=album&album=29356 -Baron Munchausen Thanks for the reference to the above book. From the chapters listed at the website, it is written fairly well. I saw a short animation about what it would be like to dream while awake; and the main problem was how to determine if one was awake or dreaming, and the animation suggested that if you are dreaming-when you turn off and on the light switch it may not work, while if you are awake it normally does work. If you are associated with Baron Munchausen what a great honor. Sometimes I hope to meet Venus one day like Baron Munchhuasen did, however it seems that it would be better to meet Venus in disguise and not know it, so that one can always imagine what Venus may be like, and never really know for sure - leaving the mystery forever alive, so that everyone I meet who may even remotely remind me of Venus such as Uma Thurman who played the role of Venus, may be Venus for the day, and those whom I meet who may be Venus in disguise, may come and visit me anew each day and I would not know the difference. That's the beauty of being a God they can change their form to look any way they want, and many may play the role, so that those hoping to meet them are never disappointed and the mystery and romance lives ever on. -------------------------------1139518898 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 2/4/2006 12:37:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, hohlraum= l6d@netscape.net writes:

-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas= Clark123@aol.com

  I have not slept at all in my life as far as=20= I can tell, and I seem to
enter a virtual reality world generated by com= puter systems on Earth
when I become entranced into a state that looks l= ike sleep but it is
not, so that I may dream while I am awake.

&l= t;><><><><><><><>

This s= ounds much like Thomas Hunter's situation in Ted Dekker's book
"Black".<= BR>
http://teddekker.com/?content=3Dalbum&album=3D29356

-Baron= Munchausen
Thanks for the reference to the above book. From the chapters listed at= the website, it is written fairly well.  I saw a short animation=20= about what it would be like to dream while awake; and the main problem was h= ow to determine if one was awake or dreaming, and the animation suggested th= at if you are dreaming-when you turn off and on the light switch it may not=20= work, while if you are awake it normally does work. 
 
If you are associated with Baron Munchausen what a great honor.  S= ometimes I hope to meet Venus one day like Baron Munchhuasen did, however it= seems that it would be better to meet Venus in disguise and not know i= t, so that one can always imagine what Venus may be like, and never really k= now for sure - leaving the mystery forever alive, so that everyone I meet wh= o may even remotely remind me of Venus such as Uma Thurman who played the ro= le of Venus, may be Venus for the day, and those whom I meet who may be Venu= s in disguise, may come and visit me anew each day and I would not know the=20= difference.  That's the beauty of being a God they can change their for= m to look any way they want, and many may play the role, so that those = hoping to meet them are never disappointed and the mystery and romance lives= ever on.
-------------------------------1139518898-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 9 13:11:21 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k19LAxlR007916; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 13:10:59 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k19LAvpl007887; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 13:10:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 13:10:57 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: ThomasClark123@aol.com Message-ID: <277.490e3b4.311d09d7@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 16:10:47 EST Subject: Re: Message for Thomas Clark To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1139519447" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66358 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1139519447 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/4/2006 4:14:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, ow01@voyager.net writes: Enjoy your trip. There is always planet Earth that you can come back to should you feel so inclined. Just try not to lose your way. Leave a few breadcrumbs for yourself. We're not all bad guys. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com I like Earth also. I had hoped to build prefabricated space age self sustaining gated and secure small folk towns and apartment complexes as promoted at my company website at www.rhfweb.com\ae on Earth especially before I may leave, but the powers that be on Earth, seem to want me to leave Earth for some reason all the sooner, though I could always come back with investments and grants from E.T.'s as well as guiding wisdom, support, and resources, to build such communities on Earth and on other planets. Baron Von Volsung, http://www.rhfweb.com/baron, Email: http://www.rhfweb.com/emailform.html President Thomas D. Clark, Email: http://www.rhfweb.com/emailform.html, Personal Web Page: http://www.rhfweb.com/personal New Age Production's Inc., http://www.rhfweb.com/newage Star Haven Community Services, at http://www.rhfweb.com/sh Radiation Health Foundation Trust at http://www.rhfweb.com/ Making a difference one person at a time Get informed. Inform others. -------------------------------1139519447 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 2/4/2006 4:14:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, ow01@voya= ger.net writes:
Enjoy your trip.

There is always planet= Earth that you can come back to should you feel so inclined. Just try not t= o lose your way. Leave a few breadcrumbs for yourself. We're not all bad guy= s.

Regards,
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
I like Earth also.  I had hoped to build prefabricated space=20= age self sustaining gated and secure small folk towns and apartment complexe= s as promoted at my company website at = www.rhfweb.com\ae on Earth especially before I may leave, but the p= owers that be on Earth, seem to want me to leave Earth for some reason all t= he sooner, though I could always come back with investments and grants from=20= E.T.'s as well as guiding wisdom, support, and resources, to build such= communities on Earth and on other planets.
 
Baron Von Volsung, http://www.rhfweb.com/baron, Email: http://www.rhfweb.com/emailform.html
President Thomas D. Clark,= Email: http://www.rhfweb.com/emailform.html,
Pers= onal Web Page: http://www.rhfweb.com/personal
New Age Productio= n's Inc., http://www.rhfweb.com/newage
Star Haven Community Service= s, at = http://www.rhfweb.com/sh
Radiation Health Foundation Trust at http://www.rhfweb= .com/

Making a difference one person at a time
Get informed= . Inform others.
-------------------------------1139519447-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 9 13:34:16 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k19LXr0Z021165; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 13:33:54 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k19LXqSh021147; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 13:33:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 13:33:52 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060209163336.03456428@mindspring.com> Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060209163003.034e02a0@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2006 16:33:42 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: ICCF10 and 11 proceedings available at Amazon Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66359 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ICCF-10: "Cold Fusion: Condensed Matter Nuclear Science" $168.00 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/9812565647/qid=1139520563/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-0876219-8648956?s=books&v=glance&n=283155 ICCF-11 "Condensed Matter Nuclear Science: Proceedings of the 11th International Conference on Cold Fusion" $128.00 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/9812566406/qid=1139520563/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-0876219-8648956?s=books&v=glance&n=283155 - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 9 13:37:50 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k19Lbao2022904; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 13:37:37 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k19LbYQv022874; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 13:37:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 13:37:34 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: ThomasClark123@aol.com Message-ID: <29a.518cb56.311d1011@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 16:37:21 EST Subject: Re: Dark Matter is Hot To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1139521041" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66360 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1139521041 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/5/2006 10:37:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, hheffner@mtaonline.net writes: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4679220.stm According to the Unity of Creation Theory as proposed by Leonard G. Cramp in his book The cosmic matrix piece for a jigsaw puzzle part 2, there was no big bang since the universe is perpetual in motion, and what we call dark matter, may be the ether: "In 1948, three world famous cosmologists, Thomas Gould, Herman Bondi, and Sir Fred Hoyl, developed the steady state theory, which proposes that atoms are continually being created from which all matter, planet, stars, and galaxies are formed. .. A prevalent feature in the cosmos - is that of rotary motion predomently exhibeted both at the microscopic and the macrocosmic scale - all rotate. The globular cosmic matrix rotates about the cosmic source. As the entire space forming matrix is rotating it follows that all material substances including dark matter are also rotating. In rotating systems particles which are radially flung out at the center meet ever increasing rotational speeds the further out they become... the outer galaxies will reach the highest speeds and thereby exhibit the red shift to watching astronomers. By the time the outer galaxies enter these distances their attendant increase in mass is proportionally compensated by the ever-shrinking third dimension until they reach the outer limits of two dimensions and extinction back into pure energy state from which they were originally formed and this process is continuos . The Unity of Creation system would generate a space matrix, and second that that would be of globular form. The principle elegantly covers an otherwise difficult to imagine change from state of something to a state of nothing by creating a three dimensional grid which changes to two dimensions or nothing. Gravitation is the natural tendency for a ray to travel towards the source. Gravity - In the case of two equal masses V and Y, mutual unbalance by interference resulting in continual increase in velocity (acceleration) which is evenly shared. In the case of two unequal masses W and Y greater number of rays being modulated and greater mutual unbalance by interference therefore continual increase in velocity which is not evenly shared due to inertia resistance set up in w. Inertia - the resistance offered by the C rays to being modulated. The greater the mass the greater the number of rays to be modulated therefore the greater the resistance set up .. the greater the force needed. Velocity- rate at which modulations are transferred by resonance to intersecting rays. Momentum - Number of rays modulated in direction of motion times the rate of transference of modulation in intersecting rays. Acceleration - Unbalanced modulation by a continued interference or applied force. Ether and space are the same - space is formed out of nothing by a grid of extremely high frequency rays probably of having a wavelength of less than 10^-13 meters. Space even if it is empty posses the qualities of length, breadth, thickness, and time. Nothing has no qualities whatsoever, and cannot support any material or ray. In other words, creation of the universe takes the form of making space out of nothing, and the method adopted for making space is a network or grid of rays which I call creative rays. Taking the universe to mean all created space, there is nothing outside the boundaries of the created universe. Space is positive creation. Nothing is the absence of space and is purely negative. Space or ether is formed by the creative rays which emanate from one source in all directions and in all planes. Each creative ray covers a circuit from source back to source. When a ray travels through space it is merely a slight modulation or disturbance of the creative rays and of no importance. Although a modulation is normally a ray which travels in all directions from its source towards the source of the creative rays, the chord of modulations forming and atom are locked together in three planes. This lock prevents the modulations traveling in opposing directions as rays. Flying suacers - are vehicles which are based on the principle of unbalancing the extension modulations of material carried in the vehicles. All statements above in quotes are Quoted from Leonard G. Cramp in his book The cosmic matrix piece for a jigsaw puzzle part 2, Pg 100 to 130." -------------------------------1139521041 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 2/5/2006 10:37:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, hheffner= @mtaonline.net writes:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4679= 220.stm
According to the Unity of Creation Theory as proposed by Leonard G. Cra= mp in his book The cosmic matrix piece for a jigsaw puzzle part 2, there was= no big bang since the universe is perpetual in motion, and what we call dar= k matter, may be the ether:
 

"In 1948, three world famous cosmologists, Thomas Gould, Herman Bon= di, and Sir Fred Hoyl, developed the steady state theory, which proposes tha= t atoms are continually being created from which all matter, planet, stars,=20= and galaxies are formed. ..
 
A prevalent feature in the cosmos - is that of rotary motion predomentl= y exhibeted both at the microscopic and the macrocosmic scale - all rotate.=20= The globular cosmic matrix rotates about the cosmic source.
 
As the entire space forming matrix is rotating it follows that all mate= rial substances including dark matter are also rotating.
 
In rotating systems particles which are radially flung out at the cente= r meet ever increasing rotational speeds the further out they become... the=20= outer galaxies will reach the highest speeds and thereby exhibit the red shi= ft to watching astronomers.
 
By the time the outer galaxies enter these distances their attendant in= crease in mass is proportionally compensated by the ever-shrinking third dim= ension until they reach the outer limits of two dimensions and extinction ba= ck into pure energy state from which they were originally formed and this pr= ocess is continuos .
The Unity of Creation system would generate a space matrix, and second=20= that that would be of globular form. The principle elegantly covers an other= wise difficult to imagine change from state of something to a state of nothi= ng by creating a three dimensional grid which changes to two dimensions or n= othing.
Gravitation is the natural tendency for a ray to travel towards the sou= rce.
 
Gravity - In the case of two equal masses V and Y,  mutual unbalan= ce by interference resulting in continual increase in velocity (acceleration= ) which is evenly shared.  In the case of two unequal masses W and Y gr= eater number of rays being modulated and greater mutual unbalance by interfe= rence therefore continual increase in velocity which is not evenly shared du= e to inertia resistance set up in w.

Inertia - the resistance offered by the C rays to being modulated.=20= The greater the mass the greater the number of rays to be modulated therefor= e the greater the resistance set up .. the greater the force needed.
 
Velocity- rate at which modulations are transferred by resonance to int= ersecting rays.
 
Momentum - Number of rays modulated in direction of motion times the ra= te of transference of modulation in intersecting rays.
 
Acceleration - Unbalanced modulation by a continued interference or app= lied force.

Ether and space are the same - space is formed out of nothing by a grid= of extremely high frequency rays probably of having a wavelength of less th= an 10^-13 meters.  Space even if it is empty posses the qualities of le= ngth, breadth, thickness, and time.  Nothing has no qualities whatsoeve= r, and cannot support any material or ray.  In other words, creation of= the universe takes the form of making space out of nothing, and the method=20= adopted for making space is a network or grid of rays which I call creative=20= rays.  Taking the universe to mean all created space, there is nothing=20= outside the boundaries of the created universe.  Space is positive crea= tion. Nothing is the absence of space and is purely negative. Space or ether= is formed by the creative rays which emanate from one source in all directi= ons and in all planes. Each creative ray covers a circuit from source back t= o source.
 
When a ray travels through space it is merely a slight  modulation= or disturbance of the creative rays and of no importance. Although a modula= tion is normally a ray which travels in all directions from its source towar= ds the source of the creative rays, the chord of modulations forming and ato= m are locked together in three planes. This lock prevents the modulations tr= aveling in opposing directions as rays.
 
Flying suacers - are vehicles which are based on the principle  of= unbalancing the extension modulations of material carried in the vehicles.=20=
 
All statements above in quotes are Quoted from Leonard G. Cramp= in his book The cosmic matrix piece for a jigsaw puzzle part 2, Pg 100 to 1= 30."
-------------------------------1139521041-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 9 14:05:18 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k19M53Gh003395; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 14:05:04 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k19M52w9003383; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 14:05:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 14:05:02 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: ThomasClark123@aol.com Message-ID: <1dd.4eb88907.311d167e@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 17:04:46 EST Subject: Re: Message for Thomas Clark To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1139522686" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <2Yu8a.A.z0.Oy76DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66361 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1139522686 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/3/2006 5:17:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, hohlrauml6d@netscape.net writes: -----Original Message----- From: OrionWorks Freud, once made a statement in regards to the art of interpreting dreams and personal symbols: Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Thanks for the quotes from Freud and Groucho Marx. Strangely enouph today while visiting the Venus Mountain Book Store in Lansing, which I referred to ealier where I found the peace pipe over a baby Dragon with his family statue, I came across a book which referred to quotes by Carl Jung associating him with Merlin the Magician in the book The 21 Lessons of Merlyn: A Study in Druid Magic and Lore by Douglas Monroe (Paperback - Sep 1, 2002). The quotes by Carl Jung were very helpfull. It seems to me that Freud began the philosophy of psychology and B.F. Skinner began the science of psychology. If science simply observed people, and did not interfere with their natural lives to get the data that is needed for science, then the science of psychology seems ethically acceptable. Even better than a science of psychology by means of experimentation, is a logical, geometric and mathematical knowledge of psychology, which can be modeled on a computer, and tested with virtual reality, so that no actual physical experiments may need be done. Many advanced E.T. societies seem to indicate that all the knowledge that could be obtained from scientific experimentation, is already available in the higher ether planes which seem to be pure forms of logic, geometry, and math that once accessed allow us to do virtual reality or ether plane tests to get the data, just as Nikola Tesla claims to have done. In the future, science as we know it, may change is method from one of experimental data, to one of pure logic, math, geometry, computation, modeling, and virtual reality ether data. Based on these preceding assumptions, and principles of ethics, most psychologists should be putting more effort into the logic, math, geometry, computation and modeling of the human mind than empirical experimentation. Most psychologists should not forget that to date, most of psychology is nothing but philosophy, and until it becomes more formalized, justified by logic, and mathematically modeled on computers, most psychologist cannot ethically and legally diagnose another patients, condition as being purely psychological. >From books that I have read, many E.T.'s such as those from Venus, seem to have solved most of the problems that we have on Earth, by simply not needing to have children to help avoid overpopulation since they can create people out of pure light when they need more people; and by not needing or desiring to experiment on each other, since they have the knowledge they need to be happy and the ethics and wisdom they need to know that one should not experiment on others, and by using their spirit to access knowledge in the higher ether planes, they are not so dependent on physical empirical data. Earth can also achieve peaceful communities like Venus, by simply following the code of ethics that Venetians may follow as I stated above, and by developing highly advanced preconception birth control pills, that are 100 percent successful which are given away for free, and by rewarding people and cultures who should decide to have fewer children with better living conditions. And if Earth should become a space age society with highly refined ethics and social customs, then Earth persons may also be invited to travel to other planets. -------------------------------1139522686 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 2/3/2006 5:17:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, hohlrauml= 6d@netscape.net writes:
-----Original Message-----
From: OrionWorks=

Freud, once made a statement in regards to the art of interpreting <= BR>dreams and personal symbols: Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Thanks for the quotes from Freud and Groucho Marx.
 
Strangely enouph today while visiting the Venus Mountain Book Store in=20= Lansing, which I referred to ealier where I found the peace pipe o= ver a baby Dragon with his family statue, I came across a book which referre= d to quotes by Carl Jung associating him with Merlin the Magician in the boo= k The 21 Lessons of Merlyn: A Study in Dru= id Magic and Lore by Douglas Monroe (Paperback - Sep 1, 2002).  The quote= s by Carl Jung were very helpfull.
 
It seems to me that Freud began the philosophy of psychology
and B.= F. Skinner began the science of psychology. 
 
If science simply observed people, and did not interfere with their nat= ural lives to get the data that is needed for science, then the science= of psychology seems ethically acceptable.  Even better than a science=20= of psychology by means of experimentation, is a logical, geometric and mathe= matical knowledge of psychology, which can be modeled on a computer, and tes= ted with virtual reality, so that no actual physical experiments may need be= done.  Many advanced E.T. societies seem to indicate that all the know= ledge that could be obtained from scientific experimentation, is already ava= ilable in the higher ether planes which seem to be pure forms of logic, geom= etry, and math that once accessed allow us to do virtual reality or ether pl= ane tests to get the data, just as Nikola Tesla claims to have done.  I= n the future, science as we know it, may change is method from one of experi= mental data, to one of pure logic, math, geometry, computation, modeling, an= d virtual reality ether data.  Based on these preceding assumptions, an= d principles of ethics, most psychologists should be putting more effort int= o the logic, math, geometry, computation and modeling of the human mind than= empirical experimentation.  Most psychologists should not forget that=20= to date, most of psychology is nothing but philosophy, and until it becomes=20= more formalized, justified by logic, and mathematically modeled on computers= , most psychologist cannot ethically and legally diagnose another patients,=20= condition as being purely psychological. 
 
From books that I have read, many E.T.'s such as those from Venus, = ; seem to have solved most of the problems that we have on Earth, by simply=20= not needing to have children to help avoid overpopulation since they can cre= ate people out of pure light when they need more people; and by not needing=20= or desiring to experiment on each other, since they have the knowledge they=20= need to be happy and the ethics and wisdom they need to know that one should= not experiment on others, and by using their spirit to access knowledge in=20= the higher ether planes, they are not so dependent on physical empirical dat= a. 
 
Earth can also achieve peaceful communities like Venus, by simply follo= wing the code of ethics that Venetians may follow as I stated above, and by=20= developing highly advanced preconception birth control pills, that are 100 p= ercent successful which are given away for free, and by rewarding people and= cultures who should decide to have fewer children with better living condit= ions.  And if Earth should become a space age society with highly refin= ed ethics and social customs, then Earth persons may also be invited to trav= el to other planets. 
-------------------------------1139522686-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 9 14:55:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k19MsuPr027499; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 14:54:56 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k19MssHI027491; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 14:54:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 14:54:54 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=ix.netcom.com; b=RJ1f10WWoD5OLykhYRIOyXvQSuPNtlL6CTbiE+Nuxxci/xFUef2Jd5Bh4b/7wOj0; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006249145443510@ix.netcom.com> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: aki@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.1.47.0 (Windows) From: "" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: ICCF10 and 11 proceedings available at Amazon Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 14:54:43 -00 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: c4cc7f5f697e8746f66dc3a06d5924d8473190f9a1c61f468641f502f08a243b8498dd5c8d2f0fb0350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 216.175.84.59 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66362 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: February 09,2005 Vortex, Do the registered (and paid for) Particpants of either or both Conferences receive a copy of each Proceedings as in the past? Or do they also join the proletarian order line at Amazon and pay (again) to obtain a copy? -ak- > [Original Message] > From: Jed Rothwell > To: > Date: 2/9/2006 9:35:30 PM > Subject: ICCF10 and 11 proceedings available at Amazon > > ICCF-10: > > "Cold Fusion: Condensed Matter Nuclear Science" > > $168.00 > > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/9812565647/qid=1139520563/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2 /102-0876219-8648956?s=books&v=glance&n=283155 > > > ICCF-11 > > "Condensed Matter Nuclear Science: Proceedings of the 11th > International Conference on Cold Fusion" > > $128.00 > > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/9812566406/qid=1139520563/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1 /102-0876219-8648956?s=books&v=glance&n=283155 > > - Jed > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 9 15:05:54 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k19N5dEI032176; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 15:05:39 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k19N5a0V032149; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 15:05:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 15:05:36 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060209180349.03456428@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2006 18:05:24 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: RE: ICCF10 and 11 proceedings available at Amazon In-Reply-To: <410-22006249145443510@ix.netcom.com> References: <410-22006249145443510@ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66363 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Akira: Your return address is missing your name! You should adjust your e-mail program. You wrote: >Do the registered (and paid for) Particpants of either or both Conferences >receive a copy of each Proceedings as in the past? Yes. They are on the way. Peter Hagelstein reports: "World Scientific is mailing them from Singapore. One reached Xing Zhong Li in Beijing about 10 days ago. Now Italy. Hopefully the US before too long." - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 9 17:59:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1A1xQCB014939; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 17:59:27 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1A1xBQs014788; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 17:59:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 17:59:11 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <013501c62de5$8ec95e00$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Subject: Steve Jones Speaks Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 17:58:56 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66364 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: BYU Physics Professor Steven Jones spoke at UVSC on February 1st on his theory of the collapse of World Trade Center 7 - 9/11, 2001. That talk is now available in a 60 meg bittorrent if you are so inclined: http://tinyurl.com/e38eg You must have a bittorrent client to get this! Finally - he apparently is sticking to just Building 7 and not the towers (I presume this from the title as my torrent is still downloading). This building is the problem for the standard explanation - it was not hit by any airplane, is some distance away, and its fall is clearly recognized by almost every demolition expert, who is not on the Federal payroll, as being identical in every way to a controlled demolition. Be prepared to have some prevalent myths and possible regime-spin-doctoring challenged, even if you do not like S.Jones for his other (incorrect) stances. If you have broadband you can (and should) get a bittorrent client at http://sourceforge.net/projects/azureus/ Takes about 10 minutes. And why not ? My crystal ball tells me that you may see future interesting torrents on free-energy, future conferences, etc ... appearing as torrents only, as it simply costs too much to provide these big files with a normal server as your distribution channel ;-) Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 9 18:11:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1A2BPrL019522; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 18:11:25 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1A2BMDE019486; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 18:11:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 18:11:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <000701c62de7$42a34750$ec027841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: References: <013501c62de5$8ec95e00$6401a8c0@NuDell> Subject: Re: Steve Jones Speaks Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 20:11:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2005-06-05) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.8 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66365 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jones, Thanks for the link. Yep, three for three was to much of a stretch. Somebody got to confident. Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 7:58 PM Subject: Steve Jones Speaks > BYU Physics Professor Steven Jones spoke at UVSC on February 1st on his > theory of the collapse of World Trade Center 7 - 9/11, 2001. > > That talk is now available in a 60 meg bittorrent if you are so inclined: > http://tinyurl.com/e38eg > > You must have a bittorrent client to get this! > > Finally - he apparently is sticking to just Building 7 and not the towers > (I presume this from the title as my torrent is still downloading). This > building is the problem for the standard explanation - it was not hit by > any airplane, is some distance away, and its fall is clearly recognized by > almost every demolition expert, who is not on the Federal payroll, as > being identical in every way to a controlled demolition. > > Be prepared to have some prevalent myths and possible > regime-spin-doctoring challenged, even if you do not like S.Jones for his > other (incorrect) stances. > > If you have broadband you can (and should) get a bittorrent client at > http://sourceforge.net/projects/azureus/ > > Takes about 10 minutes. And why not ? > > My crystal ball tells me that you may see future interesting torrents on > free-energy, future conferences, etc ... appearing as torrents only, as it > simply costs too much to provide these big files with a normal server as > your distribution channel ;-) > > Jones > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 9 18:13:54 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1A2DgMH020587; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 18:13:42 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1A2Dca9020545; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 18:13:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 18:13:38 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2006 21:13:24 -0500 Message-Id: <8C7FBFEB4E8F11B-23BC-10720@mblkn-m09.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <013501c62de5$8ec95e00$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <013501c62de5$8ec95e00$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Steve Jones Speaks Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.73 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66366 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene You must have a bittorrent client to get this! <><><><><><> Do you think BT is safe? Weren't you abject toward .ram? <><><><><><> Finally - he apparently is sticking to just Building 7 and not the towers <><><><><><> Did you bother with the NIST report that I referenced? Did you see the collapse timeline? Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 9 18:23:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1A2MxM7025086; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 18:22:59 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1A2MvGq025062; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 18:22:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 18:22:57 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2006 21:22:44 -0500 Message-Id: <8C7FC0002FD5C1B-23BC-10769@mblkn-m09.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <013501c62de5$8ec95e00$6401a8c0@NuDell> <000701c62de7$42a34750$ec027841@xptower> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <000701c62de7$42a34750$ec027841@xptower> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Steve Jones Speaks Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.73 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66367 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: RC Macaulay Yep, three for three was to much of a stretch. Somebody got to confident. <><><><><><><> I presume you are at least open minded to CF by being on this list and know the history of Fleischmann and Pons. If so, how can you hold that opinion and support Steve Jones at the same time??? Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 9 19:10:20 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smmsp@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1A3A1HI012015; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 19:10:05 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1A325p9008957; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 19:02:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 19:02:05 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <000801c62dee$54d43ea0$ec027841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: References: <013501c62de5$8ec95e00$6401a8c0@NuDell> <000701c62de7$42a34750$ec027841@xptower> <8C7FC0002FD5C1B-23BC-10769@mblkn-m09.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: Steve Jones Speaks Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 21:01:46 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2005-06-05) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.8 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66368 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi horse, Never stated I support Jones.I don't support the range of conspiracy theories either. Like I said before, even a "Yalie" would have a hard time buying a three some. Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 8:22 PM Subject: Re: Steve Jones Speaks > > > -----Original Message----- > From: RC Macaulay > > Yep, three for three was to much of a stretch. Somebody got to confident. > > <><><><><><><> > > I presume you are at least open minded to CF by being on this list and > know the history of Fleischmann and Pons. If so, how can you hold that > opinion and support Steve Jones at the same time??? > > Terry > ___________________________________________________ > Try the New Netscape Mail Today! > Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List > http://mail.netscape.com > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 9 19:11:14 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1A3AwZr012409; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 19:10:58 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1A3AvBx012389; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 19:10:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 19:10:57 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <016101c62dee$2d387960$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <013501c62de5$8ec95e00$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C7FBFEB4E8F11B-23BC-10720@mblkn-m09.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: Steve Jones Speaks Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 19:00:40 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66369 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Terry, > You must have a bittorrent client to get this! > Do you think BT is safe? If you use Azureus, which is much better than anything else, it appears safe. Very few problems compared to anything from Redmond. Be sure to get the plugin called "safe peer" and stay away from downloading "executibles". When you get a file downloaded, scan it with a virus detector before opening. I have only once in three years gotten an attempted virus and it was caught immediately and reported back. Once someone is caught trying to load spyware or viri - their real identity is ferreted out by very serious Nordic programmer/hackers, and banned by the tracker. Like a slap on the wrist, but for the amateur hacker there are easier ways which don't involve incurring the wrath of other (and much better) hackers. > Did you bother with the NIST report that I referenced? Did you > see the collapse timeline? I had already read it. There are many problems with the NIST report, including failure to include strong internal dissents from their own staff and minuscule budget and other pressures and constraints to just get it over with and move-on. I am not saying that this is definitely a USA-based conspiracy at all, maybe just many strange coincidences is all it amounts to - such as securing the enormous insurance coverage a few months prior, and all of the short trading - not investigated !! but there are many problems with the official report. And more needs to be done. NIST spent something like $18 million - a pittance compared to the scope of the tragedy and about a third of Kenneth Star's investigation over almost nothing more than high level porn (Star was supposed to have a $30 million budget but spent ~$50 million, reportedly) And even if WTC was planned or abetted to some degree - it looks like it was done mainly out of greed by the new owner with the top-level cooperation of Mossad - operating under the premise that there may well be another incident like the garage bombing - ergo - if there is, then let's make the best out of it, and force our buddies down in DC to wipe out at least a couple of Arab states who are threatening us. They (Bush administration) will not complain, even if they find out, because it fits so well into their agenda, which our (i.e. Mossad's) well-placed spies in the agency itself know better than anyone outside of Scoter/Cheney's inner sanctum. At least that is the working hypothesis of some few people who may fear the wrath of Mossad more than the CIA. Look a little deeper into motives... It is possible that we have not heard the whole story, and may never without this kind of prodding from S. Jones (whose stance on CF is admittedly a crock). Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 9 19:27:43 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1A3RPin018743; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 19:27:26 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1A3ROBV018737; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 19:27:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 19:27:24 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <017601c62df1$e5a80580$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <013501c62de5$8ec95e00$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C7FBFEB4E8F11B-23BC-10720@mblkn-m09.sysops.aol.com> <016101c62dee$2d387960$6401a8c0@NuDell> Subject: Re: Steve Jones Speaks Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 19:27:18 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: <99OO9D.A.tkE.cgA7DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66370 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Smoking Gun (one of several) ? http://tinyurl.com/52e88 From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 9 19:29:31 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1A3TIJl019819; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 19:29:19 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1A3TGeD019799; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 19:29:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 19:29:16 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <017901c62df2$280cc960$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <013501c62de5$8ec95e00$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C7FBFEB4E8F11B-23BC-10720@mblkn-m09.sysops.aol.com> <016101c62dee$2d387960$6401a8c0@NuDell> Subject: Re: Steve Jones Speaks Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 19:29:09 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: <-0wOuD.A.T1E.LiA7DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66371 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Smoking gun #2 http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/01/11/WTC_DeathRoll2.html From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 9 19:30:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1A3UjPi020389; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 19:30:45 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1A3Ug0g020362; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 19:30:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 19:30:42 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <017c01c62df2$5bcdb020$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <013501c62de5$8ec95e00$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C7FBFEB4E8F11B-23BC-10720@mblkn-m09.sysops.aol.com> <016101c62dee$2d387960$6401a8c0@NuDell> Subject: Re: Steve Jones Speaks Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 19:30:36 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66372 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Smoking gun # 3 http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/globemovers.htm From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 9 23:39:03 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1A7cgeE022232; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 23:38:42 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1A7cdOd022196; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 23:38:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 23:38:39 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 02:35:31 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: "Energy Amplifier" subcritical reactor In-reply-to: <7.0.1.0.2.20060209141727.034e02a0@mindspring.com> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k1A7cYtb022149 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66373 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed Rothwell wrote: > A nifty idea. See: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_amplifier > > - Jed > > Carlo Rubbia originated the idea of the energy amplifier. http://www.scifi.com/sfw/issue411/labnotes.html The paragraph below came from the link above. Harry "At the Bhaba Atomic Research Center near Kalpakkam, nuclear eggheads like Anil Kakodkar have been noodling with thorium since 1995, and are currently building a pilot plant to work the bugs out of Carlo Rubbia's design. If all goes well, the reactor should begin producing continuous power by the end of the decade, and should pave the way for nine commercial workhorses due to come online between 2010 and 2020. If the scheme works‹and there's no scientific reason why it shouldn't‹it could well pave the way for a global migration to fission technology safe enough for urban areas and Third World dictatorships. So, far from ignoring the problem or playing the politics of half-measures, India is positioning itself for the realities of Kyoto and the decline of fossil fuels, and plans to be a leader in 21st century energy technology. I say, more power to 'em!" From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 10 00:25:33 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1A8PKip008088; Fri, 10 Feb 2006 00:25:20 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1A8PHWQ008062; Fri, 10 Feb 2006 00:25:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 00:25:17 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 03:22:14 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: "Energy Amplifier" subcritical reactor In-reply-to: To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k1A8PFAt008034 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66374 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The author of the article cited below mislead me. After checking his sources, it seems India is not building a reactor based on the concept energy amplification. They are building a prototype commercial fast breeder reactor and the only thing it has in common with Carlo Rubbia's proposal is that they both use thorium. Harry > > Carlo Rubbia originated the idea of the energy amplifier. > http://www.scifi.com/sfw/issue411/labnotes.html > The paragraph below came from the link above. > > Harry > > > "At the Bhaba Atomic Research Center near Kalpakkam, nuclear eggheads like > Anil Kakodkar have been noodling with thorium since 1995, and are currently > building a pilot plant to work the bugs out of Carlo Rubbia's design. If all > goes well, the reactor should begin producing continuous power by the end of > the decade, and should pave the way for nine commercial workhorses due to > come online between 2010 and 2020. If the scheme works‹and there's no > scientific reason why it shouldn't‹it could well pave the way for a global > migration to fission technology safe enough for urban areas and Third World > dictatorships. So, far from ignoring the problem or playing the politics of > half-measures, India is positioning itself for the realities of Kyoto and > the decline of fossil fuels, and plans to be a leader in 21st century energy > technology. I say, more power to 'em!" > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 10 06:43:18 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1AEgtj4002842; Fri, 10 Feb 2006 06:42:56 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1AEgrVX002792; Fri, 10 Feb 2006 06:42:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 06:42:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: "Energy Amplifier" subcritical reactor Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 08:42:41 -0600 Message-ID: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B175AC1@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: "Energy Amplifier" subcritical reactor Thread-Index: AcYuG5qAK0sZxZisTSWNLe8mMjsMNAANG0pw From: "Zell, Chris" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Feb 2006 14:42:43.0897 (UTC) FILETIME=[40609290:01C62E50] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k1AEgmZX002700 Resent-Message-ID: <7BC8CB.A.er.rZK7DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66375 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ah, Thorium! An encyclopedia will tell you that there is more energy in the world's thorium deposits that all the oil, gas and coal combined. Trouble is: how do I power my car with it? -----Original Message----- From: Harry Veeder [mailto:eo200@freenet.carleton.ca] Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:22 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: "Energy Amplifier" subcritical reactor The author of the article cited below mislead me. After checking his sources, it seems India is not building a reactor based on the concept energy amplification. They are building a prototype commercial fast breeder reactor and the only thing it has in common with Carlo Rubbia's proposal is that they both use thorium. Harry > > Carlo Rubbia originated the idea of the energy amplifier. > http://www.scifi.com/sfw/issue411/labnotes.html > The paragraph below came from the link above. > > Harry > > > "At the Bhaba Atomic Research Center near Kalpakkam, nuclear eggheads > like Anil Kakodkar have been noodling with thorium since 1995, and are > currently building a pilot plant to work the bugs out of Carlo > Rubbia's design. If all goes well, the reactor should begin producing > continuous power by the end of the decade, and should pave the way for > nine commercial workhorses due to come online between 2010 and 2020. > If the scheme works shouldn't technology safe enough for urban areas and Third World dictatorships. > So, far from ignoring the problem or playing the politics of > half-measures, India is positioning itself for the realities of Kyoto > and the decline of fossil fuels, and plans to be a leader in 21st century energy technology. I say, more power to 'em!" > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 10 07:30:09 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1AFTtVl023889; Fri, 10 Feb 2006 07:29:55 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1AFTrl2023872; Fri, 10 Feb 2006 07:29:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 07:29:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060210102837.03522600@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 10:29:28 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: RE: "Energy Amplifier" subcritical reactor In-Reply-To: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B175AC1@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu .clearchannel.com> References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B175AC1@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <6mUM7D.A.60F.wFL7DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66376 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Zell, Chris wrote: >An encyclopedia will tell you that there is more energy in the world's >thorium deposits that all the oil, gas and coal combined. > >Trouble is: how do I power my car with it? With a plug in hybrid! - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 10 08:37:18 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1AGb0RO020677; Fri, 10 Feb 2006 08:37:00 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1AGawLB020653; Fri, 10 Feb 2006 08:36:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 08:36:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <43ECC11C.6090701@pobox.com> Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 11:36:44 -0500 From: "Stephen A. Lawrence" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20060202 Fedora/1.7.12-1.5.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Steve Jones Speaks References: <013501c62de5$8ec95e00$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C7FBFEB4E8F11B-23BC-10720@mblkn-m09.sysops.aol.com> <016101c62dee$2d387960$6401a8c0@NuDell> <017c01c62df2$5bcdb020$6401a8c0@NuDell> In-Reply-To: <017c01c62df2$5bcdb020$6401a8c0@NuDell> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <3iE_SC.A.nCF.pEM7DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66377 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones Beene wrote: > Smoking Gun (one of several) ? > > http://tinyurl.com/52e88 > > Smoking gun #2 > > http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/01/11/WTC_DeathRoll2.html > > Smoking gun # 3 > http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/globemovers.htm These are all interesting, but they provide no support for the notion that anything more complex than airplanes where used to bring down the buildings. Furthermore they provide hardly any support for any claim that the Israelis had anything to do with the incident! What they _do_ provide support for is the claim we heard from the very beginning: Bush knew. For, consider. The CIA is, despite its problems, well funded and reasonably effective. If Mossad knew, it's a pretty good bet that the CIA knew. If the CIA knew, then of course Bush knew, too. If Bush knew, then he decided to do nothing to stop it. You can fill in the possible reasons just as easily as I can. The suspicion that Bush knew and just let it happen was raised right away, on whatreallyhappened as well as other places. His behavior, and the weird lies from his staff apparently trying to cover up something that shouldn't have needed any cover-up, left one feeling something was seriously wrong with the handling of the whole affair. But none of this supports Steve Jones's claims, and none of it lends much credance to the claims that Mossad did it, nor the other claim I've heard (not in this group): Cheney did it. Check out deceptiondollar.com for more fun stuff. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 10 09:52:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1AHqPg3025151; Fri, 10 Feb 2006 09:52:25 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1AHqOn8025143; Fri, 10 Feb 2006 09:52:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 09:52:24 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <005f01c62e6a$b9bcd850$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <013501c62de5$8ec95e00$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C7FBFEB4E8F11B-23BC-10720@mblkn-m09.sysops.aol.com> <016101c62dee$2d387960$6401a8c0@NuDell> <017c01c62df2$5bcdb020$6401a8c0@NuDell> <43ECC11C.6090701@pobox.com> Subject: Re: OT : Steve Jones Speaks Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 09:52:13 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66378 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stephen > These are all interesting, but they provide no support for the > notion that anything more complex than airplanes where used to > bring down the buildings. No Way ! No airplane struck WTC 7 ! and two other building between WTC7 and the towers survived ! I'm not sure you read these articles closely enough. 4000 Israeli citizens were supposed to be in the building that day. Only *one* perished. He probably did not have his pager on, as an Israeli pager company warned its citizens away from WTC on the morning of 9/11 (reportedly). An Israeli-owned moving company van (reportedly) was found with traces of explosives. Nothing was done as followup. Many other lesser details implicate Mossad, especially the software used for the FAA disruption so that no USAF interceptors were scrambled. This is not the place for that discussion and I am not the person to make the case for it - as I pray that it is not true - but I do want to alert all concerned citizens that we might have well-disguised foreign terrorists who could be openly operating on USA soil today with impunity- Mossad ! Those bastards could have effectively and brutally abetted the murder of thousands of Americans for their own purposes - while warning their own citizens to stay away that day ! We should all be outraged if it is true - and try to debunk it, if it is not true. I cannot vouch for the accuracy of these stories - but NIST damn-sure should have investigated them - as they were in the public domain - and NIST should have mentioned them in the report with a specific debunking if that was their finding. Especially the "short" trading. This was not done! Gross negligence on the part of NIST ! The investigation was a sham. I do not honestly believe that Bush knew anything about this. This is a Mossad stategy, aimed at long term Israeli security (survival), and to-hell the rest of the world. It now seems clear that Sharon knew his health was failing then, and if the plan had been discovered or back-fired and publicized negatively by the Bush administration - then Sharon would have very likely have taken the fall for it -five years ago - and probably commited suicide as atonement. He was that just kind of Zionist partiot- that kind of single-minded patriot for whom the murder of many non-Jews, even allies, is a small price to pay for the survival of the homeland - let's not mince words here. Yes, this was a "derivative" and scondary plan by Mossad. This could not have happened without a detailed plan being first put into action by Al Quedda. But once that was discovered - Mossad took it from there and in effect said - we will not let this fail as did the earlier garage bombing in '94. We will ensure that even if the planes do not bring down the towers, this time, we will "assist" more than we did in '94 and make sure that war against Al Quedda happens... that is what is so clever and demonic about the plan. Perhaps a small number of operatives in CIA were aware of the plan (of course they were) and they should have been: Mossad insists the Israeli spy agency was tracking Osama Bin-Laden's terrorists in America before September 11 and that that the information was passed on to the CIA on **Five separate occasions** before the attacks on the WTC and Pentagon. Others insist Atta got money from Mossad. As late as August 24, less than two weeks before the attacks, a Mossad warning, confirmed by German intelligence, BND, said that "terrorists plan to hijack commercial aircraft to use as weapons to attack important symbols of American and Israeli culture." The warning alert was passed to the CIA. It stopped there! http://www.gordonthomas.ie/104.html Yes- the CIA is where the info-trail from Mossad stopped - as it goes against the agenda of the CIA *hardliners* (not the whole agency) to tell the President - and risk having him possibly step in to prevent this. The hardliners wanted war - they wanted any excuse to eliminate both Al Quedda and Saddam. They did not plan it but they were certainly pleased that it was falling into their laps the way it did. It was a match made in Hell - Mossad as the planners and CIA as the beneficiaries - except no one thought the Arabs could really pull it off to such a degree. I will never believe that Bush knew about this, short of an admission - not that I am a great admirer or anything. Bush junior was hand-picked by those very hardliners (who operated under papa Bush when he was head of the agency) because he is/was not particularly bright nor independent - and is generally totally reliant on others, like Cheney/Rumsfeld, for policy initiative. My opinion, but let's move this off vortex. I apologize for even bringing it up - but the world needs to know who the (other)real terrorists are ! Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 10 12:12:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1AKC5gL027218; Fri, 10 Feb 2006 12:12:06 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1AKC2cB027193; Fri, 10 Feb 2006 12:12:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 12:12:02 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 15:11:50 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C7FC955C7CF38F-2310-1217B@mblkn-m06.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Prius in Trouble Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.70 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <2Pa-cD.A.0oG.SOP7DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66379 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: http://www.solomontechnologies.com/solomon_files_itc.htm http://www.solomontechnologies.com/pdf/SolomonITCComplaint.pdf I guess we'll get to see just how good those Japanese lawyers really are, eh? ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 10 15:46:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1ANkex0021163; Fri, 10 Feb 2006 15:46:40 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1ANkbXJ021146; Fri, 10 Feb 2006 15:46:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 15:46:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: ThomasClark123@aol.com Message-ID: <97.706fc879.311e7fd2@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 18:46:26 EST Subject: Re: Message for Thomas Clark To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1139615186" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: YES Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66380 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1139615186 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Update To The Powers That Be, Inner Earth Societies, E.T.'s, And Any Others >From email conversations that I have had recently, and from other sources of information that I have received, I have decided to update my understanding of political trends, and of what others and information patterns have been encouraging me to consider and reconsider. I recently read a book which discussed the concepts of Alternative 3 and Alternative 4, that involve potential alternatives to resolve the potential global warming problems on Earth. Based on political trends, and actions up to last year 2005, it appears that the United Nations, and many other governments on Earth were encouraging the Alternative 3 option to relocate the elite and talented of Earth to Mars, while enslaving the rest with computerized beam weapons remote control of the past and present, and while destroying the atmosphere of Earth with pollutants to encourage global warming to create an ice age. But recent trends since 1995, and the notion of Alternative 4, seem to be indicating that Alternative 3 may no longer be implemented, since Mars may not be friendly to Earth groups especially those that encourage slavery of others, and destruction of the environment. According to information that I received from Dr. Rich Boylan Reports, Mars seems to be tera-forming its land, and encourages highly ethical and peaceful societies not based on slavery, or beam weapons control and nuclear warfare, which may mean that Mars may not be to friendly to groups on Earth that encourage Alternative 3 (Beam weapons slavery and environmental pollution), and may prevent them from relocating to Mars to escape potential pollution and warfare damage on Earth. As a consequence, a combination of Alternative 1,2, and 4 (Cleaning up Earths environment by means of nonpolluting power sources, and by using advanced Tesla and Haarp like technologies to cool Earth's Atmosphere and repair it) may be implemented on Earth, perhaps by new political powers on Earth just recently coming into power. Recent trends in the media show Earth to be encouraging less polluting power sources, and information on magnetic technologies as posted at (http://users.rcn.com/zap.dnai/master.pdf ) and in patents (H.R. Johnson patent No. 4,151,431 on April 24, 1979 permanent magnetic motor) given to Earth societies from friendly E.T.'s associated with the Creator of the Universe at the Center of the Universe indicate that some E.T.'s of influence are encouraging Earth to use magnetic technologies and reduce its pollution to avoid global warming. Other trends indicate that Earth will have a golden age in the future due to trends encouraged by Nikola Tesla. >From the above conclusions I noticed that myself and many others being beam weapons victims were being targeted in part by generic trends encouraged by the groups encouraging Alternative 3 (Beam weapons slavery and pollution of Earth's atmosphere) which still may be in effect but gradually diminishing to be replaced by Alternative 1,2, and 4. Many friendly groups encouraged me to seek help from friendly E.T.'s like the Creator of the Universe, and other planets that believe in peace, relatively free societies, and such help was received in part in the form of information I found or that was given to me and others such as the magnetic technologies and patents. Many other groups were also encouraging me to leave Earth with them, since they like myself may be a minority culture on Earth which is being repressed and genocided by the majority. Also being a beam weapons victim since my birth, I am unable to easily be reintegrated back into any of Earth's surface societies, unless a friendly government should decide to support me as a victim of crime (beam weapons crime and others such as spying), and offer me protection, a new identity, help restore the damages done to my body, and offer social services until I recover and am able to find work, so that I could then associate with others in a more normal manner. Since I am unable to easily be reintegrated back into Earth surface societies, I am also encouraged to seek support from secret societies, inner Earth societies, and E.T.'s to potentially be integrated into their societies, some of which may also be on other planets, which further encourages me to work with those who are minorities on Earth who feel that they may have to relocate to other planets to live safe and happy lives. Since I have had many email conversations with others about my plans to consider relocating to other planets, I have discovered only recently some groups encouraging me to stay on Earth at least for a while rather than leaving soon for other planets if offered the opportunity. In considering staying on Earth longer, if I should find a friendly group or nation that would support me, I have made plans to run many company ventures as posted at http://www.rhfweb.com/personal.html such as architectural engineers at http://www.rhfweb.com/ae, if permitted to occupy myself with self employment and to make a better world to live in for myself and others. I also received information that indicated that inner Earth societies associated with Elves, Fairies, and the Norse and Greek mythological cultures of the distant past yet live on Earth in underground caverns, and in the inner hollow Earth; and they seem to have sent persons and messages to me to indicate that they were very friendly to me, and may consider supporting me, and that I am distantly related to them. I then decided that if I wanted to work with and meet friendly inner Earth cultures, I should start companies that I am very interested in, some of which are posted at my personal web site at http://www.rhfweb.com/personal.html, that would hire persons from inner Earth societies to create crafts, hand made clothing, and fashions, and build self sustaining communities for them to live in on the surface and in the inner Earth as well as help them relocate to other planets that welcome them there. Some of the messages and persons sent to me associated with inner Earth societies, encouraged me to relocate to Canada, and Europe where some of the inner Earth societies may have better relations with the governments there, and may be more friendly to myself. If there are indeed inner Earth societies associated with elves, fairies, and Greek and Norse mythological cultures that may be interested in working with me, and may be able to offer some support, they may send a representative to contact me at my personal web page at http://www.rhfweb.com/personal.html which has my cell phone and voice mail [Voice Mail ], mail,[ P.O. Box ], and email [Email Form ] addresses. My primary concern presently in getting help and feeling comfortable around others, is that I have had great damages done to my body by maser like beam weapons and virtual reality computer generated beam holograms that pretend to be me but are not me, which have literally copied someone else's body, aura, and spirit and many virtual reality ones, over and into mine, so that my spirit and aura is outside of my body connected to the bones, but is jammed by the beam weapons so that it cannot connect with and form the physical body cells since my birth. The beam weapons targeting me also target those around me and those I speak with in split seconds, so that those sent to me to speak with me, must have some protection and would have to stop some of the attacks before the speak with me. I have received emails from some who claim that they have resources to protect me from those targeting me with beam weapons. Further more in addition to the above concerning repairs to my body, as far as I can tell my spirit seems to be white mammal Aryan Nordic, Celtic, Germanic from the cat, bird, and horse clans primarily, which would form a fair haired (golden white light brown), tall and thin body with white skin. I feel that in order to be comfortable around others, I would need my body restored to good health and so that it looks like myself and not someone else. Persons sent to me from the Elves, said that I am related to them. From ancestry charts and formal ancestry research, I am related to the Aryan Norse, Celtic, and Germanic races and some royal lines, and seem to have best Synchronicity's when I am very white and Nordic. It seems to me that the Nordic races are evolved from the Aryan white elfish races and the Aryan Norse and Greek mythological divine Gods and heroes. I thank you for your attention to these matters. Best Regards, Baron Von Volsung, http://www.rhfweb.com/baron President Thomas D. Clark, Email form: http://www.rhfweb.com/emailform.html, Personal Web Page: http://www.rhfweb.com/personal.html Architectural Engineers, http://www.rhfweb.com/ae Star Haven Community Services, at http://www.rhfweb.com/sh Radiation Health Foundation Trust at http://www.rhfweb.com/ Making a difference one person at a time Get informed. Inform others. -------------------------------1139615186 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Update To The Powers That Be, Inner Earth Societies, E.T.'s, And=20= Any Others =20
 
From email conversations that I have had recently, and from other sourc= es of information that I have received, I have decided to update my understa= nding of political trends, and of what others and information patterns have=20= been encouraging me to consider and reconsider. 
 
I recently read a book which discussed the concepts of A= lternative 3 and Alternative 4, that involve potential alternative= s to resolve the potential global warming problems on Earth. Based on p= olitical trends, and actions up to last year 2005, it appears that the Unite= d Nations, and many other governments on Earth were encouraging the Alternat= ive 3 option to relocate the elite and talented of Earth to Mars, while ensl= aving the rest with computerized beam weapons remote control of the past and= present, and while destroying the atmosphere of Earth with pollutants=20= to encourage global warming to create an ice age.  But recent trends si= nce 1995, and the notion of Alternative 4, seem to be indicating that A= lternative 3 may no longer be implemented, since Mars may not be friendly to= Earth groups especially those that encourage slavery of others, and destruc= tion of the environment. 
 
According to information that I received from Dr. Rich Boylan Reports,=20= Mars seems to be tera-forming its land, and encourages highly ethical and pe= aceful societies not based on slavery, or beam weapons control and nucl= ear warfare, which may mean that Mars may not be to friendly to groups on Ea= rth that encourage Alternative 3 (Beam weapons slavery and environmental pol= lution), and may prevent them from relocating to Mars to escape potential po= llution and warfare damage on Earth.   As a consequence, a combina= tion of Alternative 1,2, and 4 (Cleaning up Earths environment by means of n= onpolluting power sources, and by using advanced Tesla and Haarp like t= echnologies to cool Earth's Atmosphere and repair it) may be implemente= d on Earth, perhaps by new political powers on Earth just recently comi= ng into power. 
 
Recent trends in the media show Earth to be encouraging less polluting=20= power sources, and information on magnetic technologies as posted at (<= A title=3Dhttp://users.rcn.com/zap.dnai/master.pdf href=3D"http://users.rcn.= com/zap.dnai/master.pdf">http://users.rcn.com/zap.dnai/master.pdf ) and=20= in patents (H.R. Johnson patent No. 4,151,431 on April 24, 1979 permanent ma= gnetic motor) given to Earth societies from friendly E.T.'s associated with=20= the Creator of the Universe at the Center of the Universe indicate that some= E.T.'s of influence are encouraging Earth to use magnetic technologies and=20= reduce its pollution to avoid global warming.  Other trends indicate th= at Earth will have a golden age in the future due to trends encouraged by Ni= kola Tesla. 
 
From the above conclusions I noticed that myself and many others b= eing  beam weapons victims were being targeted in part by generic trend= s encouraged by the groups encouraging Alternative 3 (Beam weapons slavery a= nd pollution of Earth's atmosphere) which still may be in effect but gradual= ly diminishing to be replaced by Alternative 1,2, and 4. 
 
Many friendly groups encouraged me to seek help from friendly E.T.'s li= ke the Creator of the Universe, and other planets that believe in peace, rel= atively free societies, and such help was received in part in the form of in= formation I found or that was given to me and others such as the m= agnetic technologies and patents.   Many other groups were also en= couraging me to leave Earth with them, since they like myself may be a minor= ity culture on Earth which is being repressed and genocided by the= majority.  
 
Also being a beam weapons victim since my birth, I am unable to easily=20= be reintegrated back into any of Earth's surface societies, unless a friendl= y government should decide to support me as a victim of crime (beam weapons=20= crime and others such as spying), and offer me protection, a new identity,&n= bsp; help restore the damages done to my body, and offer social services unt= il I recover and am able to find work, so that I could then associate with o= thers in a more normal manner.   Since I am unable to easily be re= integrated back into Earth surface societies, I am also encouraged to seek s= upport from secret societies, inner Earth societies, and E.T.'s to potential= ly be integrated into their societies, some of which may also be on other pl= anets, which further encourages me to work with those who are minorities on=20= Earth who feel that they may have to relocate to other planets to live safe=20= and happy lives.  Since I have had many email conversations w= ith others about my plans to consider relocating to other planets, I have di= scovered only recently some groups encouraging me to stay on Earth at least=20= for a while rather than leaving soon for other planets if offered the o= pportunity.  In considering staying on Earth longer, if I should find a= friendly group or nation that would support me, I have made plans to r= un many company ventures as posted at http://www.rhfweb.com/= personal.html such as architectural engineers at http://www.rhfweb.com/ae,=  if permitted to occupy myself with self employment and to ma= ke a better world to live in for myself and others. 
 
I also received information that indicated that inner Earth societies a= ssociated with Elves, Fairies, and the Norse and Greek mythological cultures= of the distant past yet live on Earth in underground caverns, and in the in= ner hollow Earth; and they seem to have sent persons and messages to me to i= ndicate that they were very friendly to me, and may consider supporting me,=20= and that I am distantly related to them.  I then decided that if I= wanted to work with and meet friendly inner Earth cultures, I should&n= bsp;start companies that I am very interested in, some of which are posted a= t my personal web site at http://www.rhfweb.com/personal.htm= l, that would hire persons from inner Earth societies to create cra= fts, hand made clothing, and fashions, and build self sustaining communities= for them to live in on the surface and in the inner Earth as well as help t= hem relocate to other planets that welcome them there. 
 
Some of the messages and persons sent to me associated with inner=20= Earth societies, encouraged me to relocate to Canada, and Europe where some=20= of the inner Earth societies may have better relations with the governments=20= there, and may be more friendly to myself.   If there are indeed i= nner Earth societies associated with elves, fairies, and Greek and Norse myt= hological cultures that may be interested in working with me, and may be abl= e to offer some support, they may send a representative to contact me at my=20= personal web page at http://www.rhfweb.com/personal.html= which has my cell phone and voice mail [Voice Mail ], mail,[ P.O. Box ], and email [Email= Form ] addresses.  
 
My primary concern presently in getting help and feeling comfortab= le around others, is that I have had great damages done to my body by maser=20= like beam weapons and virtual reality computer generated beam holograms= that pretend to be me but are not me, which have literally copied someone e= lse's body, aura, and spirit and many virtual reality ones, over and in= to mine, so that my spirit and aura is outside of my body connecte= d to the bones, but is jammed by the beam weapons so that it cannot connect=20= with and form the physical body cells since my birth.  The beam we= apons targeting me also target those around me and those I speak with i= n split seconds, so that those sent to me to speak with me, must have some p= rotection and would have to stop some of the attacks before the speak with m= e.  I have received emails from some who claim that they have resources= to protect me from those targeting me with beam weapons. 
 
Further more in addition to the above concerning repairs to my body, as= far as I can tell my spirit seems to be white mammal Aryan Nordic, Cel= tic, Germanic from the cat, bird, and horse clans primarily, which would for= m a fair haired (golden white light brown), tall and thin body with white sk= in.  I feel that in order to be comfortable around others, I would need= my body restored to good health and so that it looks like myself and not so= meone else. 
 
Persons sent to me from the Elves, said that I am related to them. = ; From ancestry charts and formal ancestry research, I am related to the Ary= an Norse, Celtic, and Germanic races and some royal lines, and seem to have=20= best Synchronicity's when I am very white and Nordic.  It seems to me t= hat the Nordic races are evolved from the Aryan white elfish races and the A= ryan Norse and Greek mythological divine Gods and heroes. 
 
I thank you for your attention to these matters.
 
Best Regards,
 
Baron Von Volsung, http://www.rhfweb.com/baron
President Thomas D. Clark, Email form: http://www.rhf= web.com/emailform.html,
Architectural Engineers, http://www.rhfweb.com/ae
Star Haven Community Services, at http://www.rhfweb.com/sh
Radiation H= ealth Foundation Trust at http://www.rhfweb.com/

Making a difference one= person at a time
Get informed. Inform others.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
-------------------------------1139615186-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 10 17:56:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1B1u56Y030322; Fri, 10 Feb 2006 17:56:05 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1B1ttSe030163; Fri, 10 Feb 2006 17:55:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 17:55:55 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=ix.netcom.com; b=nhpePfoO23wVTBo/8UVqviktaV1qCFdqCx3VYmqZKpq7Acck4Kyfxj1tr283zo8i; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200625101755330@ix.netcom.com> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: aki@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.1.47.0 (Windows) From: "" To: "vortex-l" Subject: FW: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday February 10, 2006 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 17:55:33 -00 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: c4cc7f5f697e8746f66dc3a06d5924d86807f9cac4b85f95346060d17da2d0ccdfe6209a9096b523350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 216.175.84.59 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66381 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > [Original Message] > From: What's New > To: Date: 2/10/2006 9:07:29 PM Subject: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday February 10, 2006 WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 10 Feb 06 Washington, DC 1. GLOBAL WARMING: MAYBE SCIENTIFIC OPENNESS IS "ONLY A THEORY." Last week, WN reported that top NASA climate scientist James Hansen was under pressure to cool it on global warming. The pressure, we have since learned, was coming from 24-year old White House appointee George Deutsch, who had been an intern in the Bush-Cheney re-election campaign. Earlier, Deutsch had informed a NASA contractor that the word "theory" had to be added to every mention of the Big Bang. "This is more than a science issue," he declared, "it is a religious issue." On Friday, NASA chief Michael Griffin made it clear to all NASA employees that it's not the job of public affairs to "alter, filter or adjust" material from the technical staff. Wednesday, Deutsch resigned. What was he doing in a sensitive position in the first place? Although his job at NASA was a reward for work in the re-election campaign, he did have a journalism degree from Texas A&M, didn't he? Well, actually no. He lied about that. Deutsch was right about one thing: science issues can also be religious issues. 2. EVANGELISTS: MAYBE GOD DIDN'T MAKE HIMSELF PERFECTLY CLEAR. There is a rare split among evangelical Christians. A group of 86 evangelical leaders formed the Evangelical Climate Initiative to combat global warming www.christiansandclimate.org , even taking out a full-page ad in the NY Times. However, a number of evangelical heavy weights, including Jerry Falwell and James Dobson, oppose the initiative, and the National Association of Evangelicals has decided not to take a position. But what does God say? "Be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth," Genesis 1:28. Well, we've done it. We've subdued just about everything. Consider the plight of the polar bear. 3. POLAR BEARS: MAYBE THEY'LL GROW FLIPPERS WHEN THE OCEAN MELTS. Environmental groups sued the government in December to add polar bears to the endangered species list; their habitat is fast being destroyed by global warming. According to the Wash Post, the Bush administration has agreed to study whether polar bears should be on the list. Coming just as the Evangelical Climate Initiative is announced, the reality of global warming now seems to be accepted by almost everyone except petroleum geologists. 4. JOURNALISM? PETROLEUM GEOLOGISTS MOVE TO THE ALTERNATE WORLD. The American Association of Petroleum Geologists is presenting its annual journalism award to novelist Michael Crichton for "State of Fear," a fictional story in which global warming is not for real. AAPG was presumably unable to find a journalist sufficiently divorced from reality to meet oil company standards. 5. BLASPHEMY: ITALIAN JUDGE DISMISSES CASE AGAINST PARISH PRIEST. The priest had been accused of "abuse of popular credulity." THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND. Opinions are the author's and not necessarily shared by the University of Maryland, but they should be. --- Archives of What's New can be found at http://www.bobpark.org What's New is moving to a different listserver and our subscription process has changed. To change your subscription status please visit this link: http://listserv.umd.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=bobparks-whatsnew&A=1 From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 10 19:30:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1B3Ts1Z030458; Fri, 10 Feb 2006 19:29:54 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1B3Tnf7030431; Fri, 10 Feb 2006 19:29:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 19:29:49 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <43ED5A21.5050905@pobox.com> Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 22:29:37 -0500 From: "Stephen A. Lawrence" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20060202 Fedora/1.7.12-1.5.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vortex Subject: The ZPE is observable! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66382 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Check out "Unruh effect" or "Unruh radiation". I just heard about this tonight; haven't really looked into it. It's mainstream physics, though, nothing speculative about it. Apparently, an accelerating body "sees" a uniform "bath" of radiation -- heat energy -- all around it. This "bath" comes from the fact that the equations describing pair production are unbalanced in some strange way when transformed into an accelerating frame. But spontaneous pair production is a manifestation of the ZPE, right? Apparently when you're accelerating the pair members don't behave identically; something like what happens to produce Hawking radiation. As I understand it the radiation is isotropic and so can't actually be used for anything, but I thought this was interesting none the less. I know there were experiments in the works recently to detect Unruh radiation; I don't know if any have been successful. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 11 01:10:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smmsp@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1B9A2aI004994; Sat, 11 Feb 2006 01:10:16 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1B8xuL5001430; Sat, 11 Feb 2006 00:59:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 00:59:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <43ED5A21.5050905@pobox.com> References: <43ED5A21.5050905@pobox.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: The ZPE is observable! Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 23:56:38 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66383 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Feb 10, 2006, at 6:29 PM, Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: > Check out "Unruh effect" or "Unruh radiation". > > I just heard about this tonight; haven't really looked into it. > It's mainstream physics, though, nothing speculative about it. > > Apparently, an accelerating body "sees" a uniform "bath" of > radiation -- heat energy -- all around it. This "bath" comes from > the fact that the equations describing pair production are > unbalanced in some strange way when transformed into an > accelerating frame. But spontaneous pair production is a > manifestation of the ZPE, right? Apparently when you're > accelerating the pair members don't behave identically; something > like what happens to produce Hawking radiation. This effect may prevent practical application of quantum entanglement communication - assuming that it is possible between non-accelerating bodies in the same frame. > > As I understand it the radiation is isotropic and so can't actually > be used for anything, but I thought this was interesting none the > less. > > I know there were experiments in the works recently to detect Unruh > radiation; I don't know if any have been successful. > There are other mainstream ZPE effects besides the Unruh effect. The Casimir effect, like QM in general, is now becoming mainstream in the engineering of MEMS devices. See: http://www.trnmag.com/Stories/021401/ Quantum_effect_moves_machine_021401.html Even more interestingly, about 5 percent of a proton's magnetism is due to *strange quark pairs* hopping in and out of existence near the proton's three quarks. See: http://www.physorg.com/news6048.html For a lot more: google: strange magnetism proton pair For more evidence and some practical theory and application, though some may consider it more crackpot than mainstream, see: http://mtaonline.net/~hheffner/HeisenbergTraps.pdf especially at the end. And ... going way out on a limb: http://mtaonline.net/~hheffner/ZPE-CasimirThrust.pdf Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 11 03:51:37 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1BBpJbv015185; Sat, 11 Feb 2006 03:51:20 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1BBpGXD015147; Sat, 11 Feb 2006 03:51:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 03:51:16 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00a001c62ef9$32d370d0$a4b1e118@D54BYG11> Reply-To: "John Coviello" From: "John Coviello" To: "Vortex" Subject: Ball Lightning Created In Israeli Lab Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 05:52:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_009D_01C62ECF.49BA9370" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-From: johnwc@patmedia.net Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66384 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_009D_01C62ECF.49BA9370 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Great balls of lightning 9 February 2006 If you have ever seen a mysterious ball of lightning chasing a cow or = flying through your window during a thunderstorm, take comfort from the = fact that you have witnessed a very rare phenomenon. Indeed, ball = lightning -- a slow-moving ball of light that is occasionally seen at = ground level during storms -- has puzzled scientists for centuries. Now, = however, researchers in Israel have built a system that can create = lightning balls in the lab. The work may not only help us to understand = ball lightning but could even lead to practical applications that make = use of these artificial balls (Phys. Rev. Lett. 96 045002). Ball lightning is thought to be a ball of plasma that is formed when a = bolt of lightning hits the ground and creates a molten "hot spot". The = ball can typically measure 30 centimetres across and can last for a few = seconds. Although they are generally created during thunderstorms, Eli = Jerby and Vladimir Dikhtyar from Tel Aviv University in Israel have now = been able to make lightning balls in the lab using a "microwave drill".=20 The device consists of the magnetron from a 600-watt domestic microwave = oven and concentrates its power into a volume of just one cubic = centimetre. The researchers inject the microwaves though a pointed rod = into a solid substrate made from glass, silicon, germanium, alumina or = other ceramics. The energy from the microwaves then produces a molten = hot spot in the substrate.=20 What the scientists then do is pull the microwave drill out of the = solid, which drags the molten hot spot and creates a hot drop. The drop = then becomes a floating fireball that measures about 3 centimetres = across and lasts for some tens of milliseconds (see figure). "The = fireball looks like a hot jellyfish, quivering and buoyant in the air," = says Jerby.=20 Although the composition of the laboratory fireballs still need to be = verified, they seem to contain components of the substrate material in = various phases, such as ions, neutral atoms and larger macroscopic = particles. This is similar to natural lightning balls, which are thought = to contain vaporized mineral grains from the soil that have been kicked = into the atmosphere by a lightning strike. Moreover, the lab-produced = fireballs appear to combine plasma and chemical oxidation and burning = processes. Again, this is similar to naturally produced balls in which = the vaporised sand grains are thought to react with oxygen in the air = and burn to release light.=20 "Our ability to generate such fireballs in a simple systematic manner = may lead to techniques for synthesizing fireballs from solid materials," = explains Jerby. He even hopes that the lab-generated fireballs could be = used in practical applications such as coating, deposition, combustion = and energy production. http://physicsweb.org/articles/news/10/2/6/1 ------=_NextPart_000_009D_01C62ECF.49BA9370 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Great = balls of=20 lightning

9 February = 2006

If you have ever seen a mysterious ball of lightning chasing a cow = or=20 flying through your window during a thunderstorm, take comfort from the = fact=20 that you have witnessed a very rare phenomenon. Indeed, ball lightning = -- a=20 slow-moving ball of light that is occasionally seen at ground level = during=20 storms -- has puzzled scientists for centuries. Now, however, = researchers in=20 Israel have built a system that can create lightning balls in the lab. = The work=20 may not only help us to understand ball lightning but could even lead to = practical applications that make use of these artificial balls (Phys. = Rev.=20 Lett. 96 045002).

Ball lightning is thought to be a ball of plasma that is formed when = a bolt=20 of lightning hits the ground and creates a molten "hot spot". The ball = can=20 typically measure 30 centimetres across and can last for a few seconds. = Although=20 they are generally created during thunderstorms, Eli Jerby and Vladimir = Dikhtyar=20 from Tel Aviv University in Israel have now been able to make lightning = balls in=20 the lab using a "microwave drill".

The device consists of the magnetron from a 600-watt domestic = microwave oven=20 and concentrates its power into a volume of just one cubic centimetre. = The=20 researchers inject the microwaves though a pointed rod into a solid = substrate=20 made from glass, silicon, germanium, alumina or other ceramics. The = energy from=20 the microwaves then produces a molten hot spot in the substrate.

What the scientists then do is pull the microwave drill out of the = solid,=20 which drags the molten hot spot and creates a hot drop. The drop then = becomes a=20 floating fireball that measures about 3 centimetres across and lasts for = some=20 tens of milliseconds (see figure). "The fireball looks like a hot = jellyfish,=20 quivering and buoyant in the air," says Jerby.

Although the composition of the laboratory fireballs still need to be = verified, they seem to contain components of the substrate material in = various=20 phases, such as ions, neutral atoms and larger macroscopic particles. = This is=20 similar to natural lightning balls, which are thought to contain = vaporized=20 mineral grains from the soil that have been kicked into the atmosphere = by a=20 lightning strike. Moreover, the lab-produced fireballs appear to combine = plasma=20 and chemical oxidation and burning processes. Again, this is similar to=20 naturally produced balls in which the vaporised sand grains are thought = to react=20 with oxygen in the air and burn to release light.

"Our ability to generate such fireballs in a simple systematic manner = may=20 lead to techniques for synthesizing fireballs from solid materials," = explains=20 Jerby. He even hopes that the lab-generated fireballs could be used in = practical=20 applications such as coating, deposition, combustion and energy=20 production.

http://physicsweb.o= rg/articles/news/10/2/6/1

------=_NextPart_000_009D_01C62ECF.49BA9370-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 11 06:20:04 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1BEJmCb025564; Sat, 11 Feb 2006 06:19:49 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1BEJk3o025514; Sat, 11 Feb 2006 06:19:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 06:19:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 09:19:34 -0500 Message-Id: <8C7FD2D51067060-1624-DED0@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <97.706fc879.311e7fd2@aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <97.706fc879.311e7fd2@aol.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Message for Thomas Clark Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.65 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <08ydzB.A.hOG.CKf7DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66385 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: ThomasClark123 I recently read a book which discussed the concepts of Alternative 3 <><><><><><><> For Vorts not familiar with Alternative 3: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_3 ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 11 06:40:03 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1BEdrFP031993; Sat, 11 Feb 2006 06:39:53 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1BEdpb5031974; Sat, 11 Feb 2006 06:39:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 06:39:51 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 09:39:40 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C7FD301FC018D1-1624-DF21@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Renewable Energy Blog Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.65 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66386 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.rengen.info/ ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 11 09:19:19 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1BHJ7n4009726; Sat, 11 Feb 2006 09:19:08 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1BHJ4Y8009694; Sat, 11 Feb 2006 09:19:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 09:19:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <002d01c62f2f$3ae01450$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <8C7FD301FC018D1-1624-DF21@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: Renewable Energy Blog Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 09:18:51 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: <1kcCCC.A.MXC.Hyh7DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66387 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: > http://www.rengen.info/ The Regen blogster's too-tame Dodge Dart is in need of some 'pimping' it would seem. (unless you are around teenagers, you may not know that this word nowadays refers to the popular MTV show 'pimp my ride'). He states: "Just as sure as the sun rises from the east, various groups have reacted rather favorably to President George W. Bush's declaration of America's "addiction" to oil, which he proposes to cut down by 75% over the next 20 years." [Interesting that this is both achievable and underway - even if Bush and DoE did nothing, zero, nada... and let free market forces continue the present trend of alternative - but with proactive intervention, how long would it take for oxidized fuels to supplant 75% of our addiction ? Ans: You may be surprised that our Prez is being conservative in the "20 years" estimate] "One such group, which is beginning to gain significance in terms of number and importance, are domestic ethanol producers in the US. Currently, US Ethanol producers are the largest alternative fuel producers, doubling their production of 2002 to 4.0 billion gallons in 2005. Ethanol in the US is currently produced from corn, amounting to about 14% of the total corn consumption and supplying roughly 3% of the total gasoline supply." [Hmm... lets see doubling every two years sounds a lot like what we have seen as a sustainable rate in microelectronics - BUT - is there enough available land? Ans: not for corn -no - but there is enough subgrade-coal] This is possible because oil is no longer cheap. At $25 per barrel, oil really is addictive but at present levels of $50 per barrel or higher, sprouting ethanol plants all over the Midwestern part of the USA make sense, prompting experts to say that by the end of the year, the US' ethanol production capacity may rise to 5.0 billion gallons a year. [That is actually below expectations for a two-year doubling rate - which requires the year-to-year rate increase of slightly over 40%] "To curb USA's oil addiction, ethanol may not be enough. But it is a start. Right now, it is the most viable and competitive alternative fuel available and as proven by countries such as Brazil, can replace nearly all oil requirements. Of course there are many other alternative energy resources available which will be developed at a faster rate, now that there is government pull and technology push." [The very best resource - far better than this corn --> ethanol stopgap measure is subgrade-coal --> methanol But this does require large investment which is only possible with a DoE pump mandate to go to 50% oxidized fuel content ASAP] Bottom line - and let me pimp the blogster's ride here: If DoE wants to move off the sidelines and into the arena - and really get proactive in a national energy policy - and "do the smart thing": which is to shift some of the oxidized fuel content from ethanol to methanol, keeping those petrobucks at home instead of in the mid-East then - yes -we can probably sustain the necessary 40% growth rate for the very few years (six) which it would take to eliminate foreign oil in the USA - with a "Manhattan" approach. This would probably require a mandated "mix" at the pump of 50/50 within two years - even without new Alaska oil, since the USA does have severely depleted domestic oil fields which are coming back into production due to the high price of crude (market forces). IOW - we could get there (off of our foreign oil addiction) by the year 2012 (an ominous sounding year) but this would require about 15-20 expensive large methanol plants, and the dreaded strip mining of cattle grazing land - on the huge Western deposits of subgrade-coal ... which land is now used for minimal economic benefit, and can be returned to that use later once the coal is gone. BTW the best sites for large wind farms might well be adjacent to such coal-to-methanol plants in order to minimize the otherwise marketable fuel which is burned on site for the conversion process. You may say: No way! these plants take years of 'red-tape', even decades, to get licensed, built and going full steam. To which I respond, 'yes,' under normal conditions, this would require too long to "wean the junkie" off his fix - BUT there is the analog to 'intervention' which is the drastic variety of cure which is now called-for by our helpless dependency. In an historical note, at the time of another crisis - the largest plant-complex in the world at the time (by a factor of 2), the plant that won the war: the Y-12 plant at Oak Ridge, was operational in 6 months - even thought we weren't even sure that the technology would work at the time that groundbreaking commenced, and even though the blueprints for the facility had not been finished. That kind of 24/7 national commitment may be what is called for in this time of impending crisis. http://www.y12.doe.gov/about/history.php BTW that Complex was constructed as part of the World War II Manhattan Project. Construction began with the first shovelful of dirt turned at Y-12 in February 1943, and operations began in November of that year. It is only when you get to these large $ billion investments, requiring national "will power" that DoE and the Prez - and sincere commitments by everyone other than the Sierra Club, can make a gigantic difference in timing. But will they find the necessary national will power in the Beltway ? ... that is, err... instead of trying to take credit for what the American farmer is already doing on his own without much help... Now, this fast track ride is the looking more like Daisy's 'Cuda than the old Dart, so 'pimp that ride', Mr. Regen Blogster.... Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 11 09:49:53 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1BHnbvR019532; Sat, 11 Feb 2006 09:49:38 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1BHnZxx019519; Sat, 11 Feb 2006 09:49:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 09:49:35 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <003401c62f33$7f582b00$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Subject: The sound of free energy Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 09:49:24 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66388 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Weeks ago, someone on Vortex (John Coviello?) posted the news article which was making the rounds - about the new sonofusion results at RPI - which was a replication/improvement of previous work of Taleyarkhan's team at Oak Ridge National Laboratory, now done by Fahey and others. The response: YAWN - not so surprising perhaps, as this is really nothing brand new - this time Lahey was using dissolved uranium sulfate to initiate bubbles rather than a dedicated neutron source (Am + Be). The difference is subtle, but tells us what everyone knew all along - that the Putterman account for the BBC was a total sham. Seth P's 'slime-job' for the Beeb, as it turns out, was based on little more than the envy-skepticism of a competing scientist - who had let success slip away, partially because of his own ineptitude and/or lack of vision - and partially because of his own upcoming announcement (which he failed to mention) which may have atoned for about a millionth of that unforgivable binge of vanity/stupidity. For those who forgot the timing - six months later Putterman tried to make his own news splash with an over-hyped 'advance' in a related experiment (which has "glitter" and did get some major 'press' but unfortunately has zero scale-up potential - nor commercial chance of success) ... whereas sonofusion is now farther along towards the tortuous road commercialization than you may realize. Fahey's results open one controversial Burkean possibility - the Fission/Fusion hybrid. Lost is the shuffle of last year's more highly publicized news from these non-commercial groups, apparently seeking "name recognition" is the more dedicated but underfunded effort - which will probably lead to the quickest route to commercialization of sonofusion. And this one is closer to home - the continuing but quiet evolution of the device by former Vo - Ross Tessien. There is a nice piece, also previously neglected, in a Sacramento newspaper magazine a couple of months ago that deserves a closer look: http://www.newsreview.com/sacramento/Content?oid=oid%3A35071 "Tessien and his colleagues at IDI in Grass Valley already have filed several patents and believe they could be the first company in the world to bring this almost-magical technology to market, perhaps in the next 10 years." With the RPI advance - using uranium - this leap towards commercialization may happen even sooner IF Tessien or someone else with a NRC license and the desire to go for a fission/fusion hybrid takes the next logical step. That next logical step is turn this device into the same type of "energy amplifier" which Carlo Rubbia envisions - but replacing Carlo's $500 million accelerator with a $500 thousand sonofusor as the source of makeup neutrons. Thousand-to-one cost differentials seem to be an advantage that otherwise smart 'ivory tower' people like Rubbia, who has had all the experimental money he ever needs at beck and call - are prone to gloss over. Forget the Rubbia "energy amplifier" - it is a dead end street due to cost - and make way for the Sonofusion Hybrid. But it is a good-news bad-news kind of potential advance. Yes, a gallon of light water potentially contains enough deuterium for the equivalent energy of 300 gallons of gasoline but that energy has never been "clean" as the pundits want you to believe - and a pound of natural Uranium has the energy equivalent of 300,000 gallons of gasoline and has never been as "dirty" as the pundits want you to believe. Combine the two and you have a match made in ... well not heaven, as this will surely end up being too radioactive to every use in a car or at home - but do not be mislead - even LENR if it ever gets to the level of robustness for commercialization will have transmutation products. Unfortunately most transmutation products have the potential to be radioactive, even in quantities produced by sub-megawatt reactors, if running for years at a time. This will NOT go un-noticed by NRC. The transmutation products aren't a problem now because we are dealing with micrograms - but heavy metal transmutation isotopes are unlikely to ever be "clean" enough in a marketable machine to be used without the same kind of license as a 'dirtier' reactor. That is politics - senseless as it sounds. Its all a matter of degree - and even environmentalists realize that ultimately, the "solution to pollution is dilution" - that, or "making lemonade from lemons"... Have I overlooked any trite sloganeering for this piece? Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 11 09:56:16 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1BHu5Br021825; Sat, 11 Feb 2006 09:56:06 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1BHu3TN021786; Sat, 11 Feb 2006 09:56:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 09:56:03 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20060211095713.02419258@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Sender: steven@newenergytimes.com@mail.newenergytimes.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 09:57:42 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: Trouble in Cold Fusion Olympic Games Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_14483075==.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66389 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=====================_14483075==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Pomp and Unsettling Circumstances Open Cold Fusion Olympic Games By Vince Ferrar Published: February 11, 2006 TURIN, Italy, Feb. 10 Four cold fusion scientists were suspended, and the world's top-ranked calorimetrist, the British Martin Fleischmann, was barred from the Cold Fusion Olympic Games here on Friday. Hours later, Olympic competitors marched into the opening ceremony to the sounds of disco music. Stanley Pons, who missed this year's Ground Hog day festival on Feb 2nd, was reportedly back in France and disappointed waiting for the return of Sheryl Crow at the Tour de France 06, and would not be attending. Nonetheless, there are cold fusion experimentalists who have trained hard and were ready to compete before being disqualified because of high altitude training. Ed Storms, a nuclear chemist who has trained hard for this years' Olympic event at high altitude back in Sante Fe is known for his calorimetric free style and was reportedly to have said "see you back in the states" when he heard the disappointing news that disco was making a comeback. "I've heard enough of K.C and the Sunshine Band for one lifetime," Storms said. "I miss the rock and roll." Dennis Cravens, another cold fusion chemist also trained at 8,000 feet in Cloudcroft, NM and is an avid fan of "Weezer's Island in the Sun." Although he's a chemist, he's free of steroids unlike a lot of the hot fusion scientific community who he suspects is behind the effort to revive disco. "Hot fusion is focused on steroid use and I suspect they are good at masking those steroids," Cravens said. "We like to use natural chemistry as a stimulus to coax out a LENR reaction towards a cleaner energy future with cold fusion someday." Storms continued, "It may take a lot of pressure, but we need better funded cold fusion R&D. Like Led Zeppelin singer Robert Plant says, 'Shine it all around, well, we're still waiting for more sunshine.'" The retired Alpine skier Alberto Tomba, a three-time Olympic gold medal winner from Italy, accepted the Olympic torch at the end of Friday night's opening ceremony in Turin. --=====================_14483075==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

Pomp and Unsettling Circumstances Open Cold Fusion Olympic Games

By Vince Ferrar
Published: February 11, 2006

TURIN, Italy, Feb. 10   Four cold fusion scientists were suspended, and the world's top-ranked calorimetrist, the British Martin Fleischmann, was barred from the Cold Fusion Olympic Games here on Friday.

Hours later, Olympic competitors marched into the opening ceremony to the sounds of disco music. Stanley Pons, who missed this year's Ground Hog day festival on Feb 2nd, was reportedly back in France and disappointed waiting for the return of Sheryl Crow at the Tour de France 06, and would not be attending. Nonetheless, there are cold fusion experimentalists who have trained hard and were ready to compete before being disqualified because of high altitude training.

Ed Storms, a nuclear chemist who has trained hard for this years' Olympic event at high altitude back in Sante Fe is known for his calorimetric free style and was reportedly to have said "see you back in the states" when he heard the disappointing news that disco was making a comeback.

"I've heard enough of K.C and the Sunshine Band for one lifetime," Storms said. "I miss the rock and roll." 

Dennis Cravens, another cold fusion chemist also trained at 8,000 feet in Cloudcroft, NM and is an avid fan of  "Weezer's Island in the Sun." Although he's a chemist, he's free of steroids unlike a lot of the hot fusion scientific community who he suspects is behind the effort to revive disco.

"Hot fusion is focused on steroid use and I suspect they are good at masking those steroids," Cravens said. "We like to use natural chemistry as a stimulus to coax out a LENR reaction towards a cleaner energy future with cold fusion someday."

Storms continued, "It may take a lot of pressure, but we need better funded cold fusion R&D. Like Led Zeppelin singer Robert Plant says, 'Shine it all around, well, we're still waiting for more sunshine.'"

The retired Alpine skier Alberto Tomba, a three-time Olympic gold medal winner from Italy, accepted the Olympic torch at the end of Friday night's opening ceremony in Turin. 
--=====================_14483075==.ALT-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 11 10:23:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1BIN3kb030170; Sat, 11 Feb 2006 10:23:03 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1BIN1fN030154; Sat, 11 Feb 2006 10:23:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 10:23:01 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: Renewable Energy Blog Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 13:30:48 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <002d01c62f2f$3ae01450$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Rcpt-To: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66390 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hey Jones, I also noticed this story on the blog, and I'm glad you mentioned it. It's a great example of how lies are generated and propagated by Mr. Bush and his associates. Here is the actual quote from the SOTUA. "Breakthroughs on this and other new technologies will help us reach another great goal: to replace more than 75 percent of our oil imports from the Middle East by 2025. (Applause.)" http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/01/20060131-10.html So let's look at the DOE chart of oil imports to the US. http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html Out total imports for 2005 were 11500 barrels per day. Our imports from the "Middle East" for that period was 2287 barrels per day. So if we cut our imports "from the Middle East" by 75 percent that would be 1715 barrels per day, or an expected reduction of 15 percent of total imports by 2025. So what Mr. Bush is actually proposing ( and this was verified by journalists the next day by asking Sam Bodman, erstwhile oilman and current secretary of energy ) is a 15 percent replacement in 20 years time with alt energy, and that in current numbers rather than predicted future usage. http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/13767738.htm The genius of this lie is that few people will consciously hear the "Middle East" part, and if they do are largely ignorant of where the bulk of our oil comes from. So rather than doing the legwork and determining the actual value from the misleading claim, what they take away is... "Just as sure as the sun rises from the east, various groups have reacted rather favorably to President George W. Bush's declaration of America's "addiction" to oil, which he proposes to cut down by 75% over the next 20 years." http://www.rengen.info/renewableenergy/66.html See how that works? K. -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene [mailto:jonesb9@pacbell.net] Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 12:19 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Renewable Energy Blog ----- Original Message ----- From: > http://www.rengen.info/ The Regen blogster's too-tame Dodge Dart is in need of some 'pimping' it would seem. (unless you are around teenagers, you may not know that this word nowadays refers to the popular MTV show 'pimp my ride'). He states: "Just as sure as the sun rises from the east, various groups have reacted rather favorably to President George W. Bush's declaration of America's "addiction" to oil, which he proposes to cut down by 75% over the next 20 years." [Interesting that this is both achievable and underway - even if Bush and DoE did nothing, zero, nada... and let free market forces continue the present trend of alternative - but with proactive intervention, how long would it take for oxidized fuels to supplant 75% of our addiction ? Ans: You may be surprised that our Prez is being conservative in the "20 years" estimate] "One such group, which is beginning to gain significance in terms of number and importance, are domestic ethanol producers in the US. Currently, US Ethanol producers are the largest alternative fuel producers, doubling their production of 2002 to 4.0 billion gallons in 2005. Ethanol in the US is currently produced from corn, amounting to about 14% of the total corn consumption and supplying roughly 3% of the total gasoline supply." [Hmm... lets see doubling every two years sounds a lot like what we have seen as a sustainable rate in microelectronics - BUT - is there enough available land? Ans: not for corn -no - but there is enough subgrade-coal] This is possible because oil is no longer cheap. At $25 per barrel, oil really is addictive but at present levels of $50 per barrel or higher, sprouting ethanol plants all over the Midwestern part of the USA make sense, prompting experts to say that by the end of the year, the US' ethanol production capacity may rise to 5.0 billion gallons a year. [That is actually below expectations for a two-year doubling rate - which requires the year-to-year rate increase of slightly over 40%] "To curb USA's oil addiction, ethanol may not be enough. But it is a start. Right now, it is the most viable and competitive alternative fuel available and as proven by countries such as Brazil, can replace nearly all oil requirements. Of course there are many other alternative energy resources available which will be developed at a faster rate, now that there is government pull and technology push." [The very best resource - far better than this corn --> ethanol stopgap measure is subgrade-coal --> methanol But this does require large investment which is only possible with a DoE pump mandate to go to 50% oxidized fuel content ASAP] Bottom line - and let me pimp the blogster's ride here: If DoE wants to move off the sidelines and into the arena - and really get proactive in a national energy policy - and "do the smart thing": which is to shift some of the oxidized fuel content from ethanol to methanol, keeping those petrobucks at home instead of in the mid-East then - yes -we can probably sustain the necessary 40% growth rate for the very few years (six) which it would take to eliminate foreign oil in the USA - with a "Manhattan" approach. This would probably require a mandated "mix" at the pump of 50/50 within two years - even without new Alaska oil, since the USA does have severely depleted domestic oil fields which are coming back into production due to the high price of crude (market forces). IOW - we could get there (off of our foreign oil addiction) by the year 2012 (an ominous sounding year) but this would require about 15-20 expensive large methanol plants, and the dreaded strip mining of cattle grazing land - on the huge Western deposits of subgrade-coal ... which land is now used for minimal economic benefit, and can be returned to that use later once the coal is gone. BTW the best sites for large wind farms might well be adjacent to such coal-to-methanol plants in order to minimize the otherwise marketable fuel which is burned on site for the conversion process. You may say: No way! these plants take years of 'red-tape', even decades, to get licensed, built and going full steam. To which I respond, 'yes,' under normal conditions, this would require too long to "wean the junkie" off his fix - BUT there is the analog to 'intervention' which is the drastic variety of cure which is now called-for by our helpless dependency. In an historical note, at the time of another crisis - the largest plant-complex in the world at the time (by a factor of 2), the plant that won the war: the Y-12 plant at Oak Ridge, was operational in 6 months - even thought we weren't even sure that the technology would work at the time that groundbreaking commenced, and even though the blueprints for the facility had not been finished. That kind of 24/7 national commitment may be what is called for in this time of impending crisis. http://www.y12.doe.gov/about/history.php BTW that Complex was constructed as part of the World War II Manhattan Project. Construction began with the first shovelful of dirt turned at Y-12 in February 1943, and operations began in November of that year. It is only when you get to these large $ billion investments, requiring national "will power" that DoE and the Prez - and sincere commitments by everyone other than the Sierra Club, can make a gigantic difference in timing. But will they find the necessary national will power in the Beltway ? ... that is, err... instead of trying to take credit for what the American farmer is already doing on his own without much help... Now, this fast track ride is the looking more like Daisy's 'Cuda than the old Dart, so 'pimp that ride', Mr. Regen Blogster.... Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 11 13:16:01 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1BLFMkl028602; Sat, 11 Feb 2006 13:15:23 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1BLFAnP028527; Sat, 11 Feb 2006 13:15:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 13:15:10 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <008901c62f50$34300810$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "Vortex" References: <00a001c62ef9$32d370d0$a4b1e118@D54BYG11> Subject: Microwave Drill was : Ball Lightning Created In Israeli Lab Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 13:14:53 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0086_01C62F0D.259F1220" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66391 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0086_01C62F0D.259F1220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here is the site on the "microwave drill," mentioned i the story One wonders how a loaded-metal-matrix would respond to the microwave = drill? http://www.eng.tau.ac.il/~jerby/microwave_drill/index.html ------=_NextPart_000_0086_01C62F0D.259F1220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Here is the site on the "microwave = drill,"=20 mentioned i the story
 
One wonders how a loaded-metal-matrix = would respond=20 to the microwave drill?
 
http:= //www.eng.tau.ac.il/~jerby/microwave_drill/index.html
------=_NextPart_000_0086_01C62F0D.259F1220-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 11 14:41:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1BMfQCB026174; Sat, 11 Feb 2006 14:41:27 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1BMfOu8026158; Sat, 11 Feb 2006 14:41:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 14:41:24 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00b801c62f5c$23073750$a4b1e118@D54BYG11> Reply-To: "John Coviello" From: "John Coviello" To: References: <00a001c62ef9$32d370d0$a4b1e118@D54BYG11> <008901c62f50$34300810$6401a8c0@NuDell> Subject: Re: Microwave Drill was : Ball Lightning Created In Israeli Lab Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 17:40:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B5_01C62F32.39C83450" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-From: johnwc@patmedia.net Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66392 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B5_01C62F32.39C83450 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, that is exactly why I posted this ball lightning story on Vortex. = It does have implications for fields such as cold fusion and ZPE. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jones Beene=20 To: Vortex=20 Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 4:14 PM Subject: Microwave Drill was : Ball Lightning Created In Israeli Lab Here is the site on the "microwave drill," mentioned i the story One wonders how a loaded-metal-matrix would respond to the microwave = drill? http://www.eng.tau.ac.il/~jerby/microwave_drill/index.html ------=_NextPart_000_00B5_01C62F32.39C83450 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes, that is exactly why I posted this = ball=20 lightning story on Vortex.  It does have implications for fields = such as=20 cold fusion and ZPE.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Jones Beene=20
To: Vortex
Sent: Saturday, February 11, = 2006 4:14=20 PM
Subject: Microwave Drill was : = Ball=20 Lightning Created In Israeli Lab

Here is the site on the "microwave = drill,"=20 mentioned i the story
 
One wonders how a loaded-metal-matrix = would=20 respond to the microwave drill?
 
http:= //www.eng.tau.ac.il/~jerby/microwave_drill/index.html
------=_NextPart_000_00B5_01C62F32.39C83450-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 11 14:55:17 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1BMt487030237; Sat, 11 Feb 2006 14:55:04 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1BMt2al030223; Sat, 11 Feb 2006 14:55:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 14:55:02 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <001a01c62f5e$2b1d9c70$1714fea9@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <00a001c62ef9$32d370d0$a4b1e118@D54BYG11> <008901c62f50$34300810$6401a8c0@NuDell> <00b801c62f5c$23073750$a4b1e118@D54BYG11> Subject: Re: Microwave Drill was : Ball Lightning Created In Israeli Lab Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 14:54:51 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66393 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Coviello writes, > Yes, that is exactly why I posted this ball lightning story on > Vortex. It does have implications for fields such as cold > fusion and ZPE. >>Here is the site on the "microwave drill," mentioned in the >>story >>One wonders how a loaded-metal-matrix would respond to the >>microwave drill? http://www.eng.tau.ac.il/~jerby/microwave_drill/index.html After giving this some thought - a *metal* matrix probably wont work as the starting material for LENR ball lightning - apparently the drill needs to be a dielectric or at least semiconductor substrate.... .... err, how does "LENR-on-the-rocks" sound? Jones "heavy rocks" that is, as in heavy water ice ... make mine a double. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 11 18:35:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1C2Yxfx007700; Sat, 11 Feb 2006 18:35:00 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1C2YwMb007689; Sat, 11 Feb 2006 18:34:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 18:34:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20060211182858.0269d760@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Sender: steven@newenergytimes.com@mail.newenergytimes.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 18:38:07 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: iESi Photoshop miracles Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66394 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >http://iesiusa.com/images/Image_photogallery.gif Maybe I'm just a suspicious rat-ba_tard, but I checked this with a New Energy Times reader / graphics artist and we notice the following things: -The sign appears to be tilting out from the top - never seen such signs. -There are shadows on the top surface of the characters as well as on the lower and right wall surface. -The vertical shadow to the right of the "i" should not be parallel to the "i" as it appears, if the sign truly is tilted out. -The shadows on the lower and right wall surface are soft, as you'd get on a cloudy day, other shadows are hard. -The green portion of the "i" is off-axis from the base of the character. This would be stupid to intentionally do. Comments V? From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 11 19:17:20 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1C3H6uS018646; Sat, 11 Feb 2006 19:17:06 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1C3H4bH018622; Sat, 11 Feb 2006 19:17:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 19:17:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <43EEA8A1.6010001@pobox.com> Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 22:16:49 -0500 From: "Stephen A. Lawrence" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20060202 Fedora/1.7.12-1.5.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: iESi Photoshop miracles References: <5.2.0.9.2.20060211182858.0269d760@mail.newenergytimes.com> In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20060211182858.0269d760@mail.newenergytimes.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66395 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Steven Krivit wrote: > >> http://iesiusa.com/images/Image_photogallery.gif > > > Maybe I'm just a suspicious rat-ba_tard, but I checked this with a New > Energy Times reader / graphics artist and we notice the following things: > > -The sign appears to be tilting out from the top - never seen such signs. > -There are shadows on the top surface of the characters as well as on > the lower and right wall surface. > -The vertical shadow to the right of the "i" should not be parallel to > the "i" as it appears, if the sign truly is tilted out. > -The shadows on the lower and right wall surface are soft, as you'd get > on a cloudy day, other shadows are hard. > -The green portion of the "i" is off-axis from the base of the > character. This would be stupid to intentionally do. > > > Comments V? You're right. That sign positively screams "FAKE!" The letters could very well be tilted out, I don't have a problem with that. But the sign is in the shade, and the entire rest of that face of the building is in full sun. There is not a cloud in the sky. No way! The shadow behind the sign is your standard "stick-a-shadow-here-please" shadow, and it's not even right for the sign: with the sign tilted out from the building the shadow should be veering off to the right a bit behind the "i". It's not. But that's an irrelevant minor glitch compared to the big one -- the sun's at a low angle in a cloudless sky, the shadow should be sticking straight out to the right of the sign, with hard edges (as you noted), and the face of the sign should be lit by the sun. Since the sun is still above the horizontal (as we can see from other shadows), the top of the tilted-out sign should be lit by the sun; it actually appears to be in full shade! That sign fails on all counts. What's more, the building face on which the sign is placed is _all_ _glass_. Look at the other gray panels in the walls to see this. They show reflections of everything around them. The ones behind the sign, however, look dull -- certainly no reflection of the sign is visible .... most likely because the sign isn't really there. It's not only a fake, it's a poor one. If they're legitimate, then they used a "mock-up" picture, taken, perhaps, before they actually moved into the office space. Nobody's noticed how bad it looks so they haven't replaced it with a later, "real" photo. (So, OK, I'm reaching here...) From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 11 19:40:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smmsp@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1C3e28e025171; Sat, 11 Feb 2006 19:40:02 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1C3QKPC021153; Sat, 11 Feb 2006 19:26:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 19:26:20 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00d001c62f83$f1b303a0$a4b1e118@D54BYG11> Reply-To: "John Coviello" From: "John Coviello" To: References: <5.2.0.9.2.20060211182858.0269d760@mail.newenergytimes.com> Subject: Re: iESi Photoshop miracles Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 22:25:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at broadbandsupport.net Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66396 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Looks like a scam. Superimposed. It's easy to doctor photos. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Krivit" To: Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 9:38 PM Subject: iESi Photoshop miracles > >>http://iesiusa.com/images/Image_photogallery.gif > > Maybe I'm just a suspicious rat-ba_tard, but I checked this with a New > Energy Times reader / graphics artist and we notice the following things: > > -The sign appears to be tilting out from the top - never seen such signs. > -There are shadows on the top surface of the characters as well as on the > lower and right wall surface. > -The vertical shadow to the right of the "i" should not be parallel to the > "i" as it appears, if the sign truly is tilted out. > -The shadows on the lower and right wall surface are soft, as you'd get on > a cloudy day, other shadows are hard. > -The green portion of the "i" is off-axis from the base of the character. > This would be stupid to intentionally do. > > > Comments V? > > > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 11 19:44:16 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1C3hlen026356; Sat, 11 Feb 2006 19:43:48 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1C3he4G026321; Sat, 11 Feb 2006 19:43:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 19:43:40 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <006a01c62f86$781a4af0$1714fea9@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <5.2.0.9.2.20060211182858.0269d760@mail.newenergytimes.com> Subject: Re: iESi Photoshop miracles Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 19:43:20 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66397 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Comments ? The "Cold Fusion Olympics" are more believable than that image.... ... and say, on that Olympics spoof, ya coulda plugged "Fire From Ice"... if not waxed poetic --- Fire And Ice with Frosty apologies Some say the world will end in fire; Some say in ice. >From what I've tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate To know that for corruption, iESi Is also great. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 11 20:31:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (IDENT:smartlst@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1C4V0SE007594; Sat, 11 Feb 2006 20:31:00 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1C4Uw76007581; Sat, 11 Feb 2006 20:30:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 20:30:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20060211203332.026affe0@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Sender: steven@newenergytimes.com@mail.newenergytimes.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 20:34:20 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: Re: iESi Photoshop miracles In-Reply-To: <43EEA8A1.6010001@pobox.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20060211182858.0269d760@mail.newenergytimes.com> <5.2.0.9.2.20060211182858.0269d760@mail.newenergytimes.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <3Mg9h.A.U2B.Cor7DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66398 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Nice analysis Stephen... Nuthin slips past this group.... s From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 11 22:11:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1C6Avcf005478; Sat, 11 Feb 2006 22:10:58 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1C6AtlO005459; Sat, 11 Feb 2006 22:10:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 22:10:55 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20060211202550.0269ccf8@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Sender: steven@newenergytimes.com@mail.newenergytimes.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 20:36:22 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: Re: iESi Photoshop miracles In-Reply-To: <006a01c62f86$781a4af0$1714fea9@NuDell> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20060211182858.0269d760@mail.newenergytimes.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66399 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What a place, Vortex. Inspiring science, humor, graphic arts and poetry. s From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 12 04:54:55 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1CCsfaP000907; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 04:54:42 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1CCseUJ000886; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 04:54:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 04:54:40 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-IronPort-AV: i="4.02,105,1139155200"; d="scan'208"; a="344856351:sNHT155125156" Message-ID: <43EF300B.3080401@iinet.net.au> Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 23:54:35 +1100 From: Wesley Bruce User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: iESi Photoshop miracles References: <5.2.0.9.2.20060211182858.0269d760@mail.newenergytimes.com> In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20060211182858.0269d760@mail.newenergytimes.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66400 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Steven Krivit wrote: > >> http://iesiusa.com/images/Image_photogallery.gif > > > Maybe I'm just a suspicious rat-ba_tard, but I checked this with a New > Energy Times reader / graphics artist and we notice the following things: > > -The sign appears to be tilting out from the top - never seen such signs. > -There are shadows on the top surface of the characters as well as on > the lower and right wall surface. > -The vertical shadow to the right of the "i" should not be parallel to > the "i" as it appears, if the sign truly is tilted out. > -The shadows on the lower and right wall surface are soft, as you'd > get on a cloudy day, other shadows are hard. > -The green portion of the "i" is off-axis from the base of the > character. This would be stupid to intentionally do. > > > Comments V? > > > > > I could do a better job than that. Heck give me some foam plastic, some paint and some rope and I could make the real thing and hang it from my local mall. Nice building though. Any one spot that the two i's are mirrored. One has been used to make the other. We need to end the messing about and get a proper cell up an running. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 12 07:07:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1CF786X013335; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 07:07:08 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1CF77WE013323; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 07:07:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 07:07:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 10:06:59 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C7FDFD1B8A18D0-224C-14BCC@mblkn-m10.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: MIT's Metacapacitor Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.74 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66401 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This might just result in the "one good battery" (MIT LEES - Laboratory of electromagnetic and electronic systems): http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2006/batteries-0208.html Excerpt: "The LEES ultracapacitor has the capacity to overcome this energy limitation by using vertically aligned, single-wall carbon nanotubes -- one thirty-thousandth the diameter of a human hair and 100,000 times as long as they are wide. How does it work? Storage capacity in an ultracapacitor is proportional to the surface area of the electrodes. Today's ultracapacitors use electrodes made of activated carbon, which is extremely porous and therefore has a very large surface area. However, the pores in the carbon are irregular in size and shape, which reduces efficiency. The vertically aligned nanotubes in the LEES ultracapacitor have a regular shape, and a size that is only several atomic diameters in width. The result is a significantly more effective surface area, which equates to significantly increased storage capacity." ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 12 08:42:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1CGgBhc013874; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 08:42:11 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1CGg6PI013788; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 08:42:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 08:42:06 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <200602121642.k1CGg2Un051225@mail2.mx.voyager.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 10:42:01 -0600 From: "OrionWorks" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: svj@orionworks.com Subject: Re: iESi Photoshop miracles Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_ac2c9d086ad36af05148d2375c3835b9" X-Mailer: CoreComm Webmail X-IPAddress: 66.168.30.131 Resent-Message-ID: <9b6L6B.A.OXD.dV27DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66402 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=_ac2c9d086ad36af05148d2375c3835b9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > From Steve Krivit > > What a place, Vortex. Inspiring science, humor, > graphic arts and poetry. > > s > ...and another thing! Look at the parked cars. I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the fact that they have been squeezed like an accordion. Look at the dimensions of the wheels. They're ovals. I suspect the entire photo may have been squeezed, probably to make it fit a prescribed dimension. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com --=_ac2c9d086ad36af05148d2375c3835b9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > From Steve Krivit
>
> What a place, Vortex. Inspiring science, humor,
> graphic arts and poetry.
>
> s
>

...and another thing!

Look at the parked cars. I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the fact that t= hey have been squeezed like an accordion. Look at the dimensions of the whe= els. They're ovals.

I suspect the entire photo may have been squeezed, probably to make it fit = a prescribed dimension.

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com

--=_ac2c9d086ad36af05148d2375c3835b9-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 12 09:24:02 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1CHNmdb031495; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 09:23:48 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1CHNlM8031483; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 09:23:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 09:23:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <002901c62ff9$11a38890$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Subject: OFF TOPIC: Travel advice for NYC Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 09:23:40 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66403 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If you ever need to visit the Big Apple, be sure to get hold or a pager/instant messenger from a company called *ODIGO* if they are still around. They have the most brilliant staff of clairvoyants on the planet and here is the proof. Actually, to be precise Odigo and its 200 employees was acquired by Comverse in early 2002: http://www.comverse.com/ Here is the business story: http://news.com.com/Telecom+firm+buys+Odigo/2110-1023_3-919688.html Why is this of any interest now ? When George Bush made his first speech to Congress following 9/11, he made a point to say that in addition to thousands of Americans, 130 Israelis died in the WTC. The implication was to say that Israel shared in our suffering, and that we and Israel are in this thing together against terrorism. Bush did not mention that the WTC is used for World Trade (as its name reflects) and that the majority of deaths were not US citizens. Unfortunately, even today a breakdown by nationality has never been officially performed, as far as anyone can tell - yet individual embassies have provided information on their countries fatalities. That mention of Israel alone was bizarre - as about 10 other countries were already suspected of having lost more citizens than Israel. And this was an American targeted tragedy, with no initial claim of responsibility, so why bring up Israel in the first place? As it turns out, at least 4000 Israelis were 'supposed' to be working at the WTC on 9/11, as the "Jerusalem Times" had dutifully reported on 9/12. This is a matter of public record. It was then feared the death toll would be 400-800 Israelis. The WTC death toll was pegged at 6000 then, but now it has been reduced to 3000, yet nevertheless, if you add up the individual nationalities, as reported from the embassies, you are back to a much higher number... Even if 3000 is the true number dead - that is about 6+ percent of the 45,000 people normally in WTC at that time of day, meaning that 42,000 escaped - 14 out of 15. Consequently the final Israeli toll, based on 4000+ who should have been there on 9/11 would have been about 240 on a statistical average. The 130 Israeli deaths, as reported to Congress by Bush, would have been low - but not outrageously low, and not suspicious at that time - so it passed without notice. For comparison, there were an estimated 199 dead from Columbia and 428 from the Philippines out of a much lower "at-risk" population. About 15% of Philippine workers at WTC perished that morning, at least according to their embassy. None of them were carrying the Odigo pager. After searching through dozens of articles trying to track down the true Israeli death toll, an investigative journalist in NYC finally found a "New York Times" piece that clarified the precise number of Israelis who died in the World Trade Center attack. Lo and behold: Of the 130 Israelis President Bush claimed before Congress - who had died in the World Trade Center, "sharing our pain" it turns out that 129 of them were still alive ! That is correct - 129 out of Bush's 130 were in fact still alive. The White House refuses to acknowledge this. However, in confirmation of this single fatality at WTC, Alon Pinkas, Israel's consul general then, has said publicly that the official list of the missing, which Bush relied on for his speech, had unfortunately included reports from people who had simply not returned repeated phone calls from relatives in Israel in the hours following. Understandable. It was very hard to get an open communication line for days. There were, Pinkas went on to state, in fact only three Israelis who had been confirmed as dead: two on them were aboard the airplanes, and another who had been visiting the Twin Towers on business, was identified and buried. (New York Times, Sept. 22). Wow !! Only one Israeli dead from an at-risk population of at least 4000. Truly this was a modern miracle of Yahweh's divine intervention, no? Even Bush's original low death toll of 130 suggested that a number of Israelis at the Trade Center had been warned before the attack. If 4000 Israelis were present at the time of the attack, and this is logical as many Israeli owned financial institutions and importers were headquartered in WTC - the single death is statistically absurd. Either September 11 had to be an Israeli holiday - or most Israeli citizens had some advance warning of the impending attack. or the subway from Queens was having problems. The present fact is that no Jewish holiday presently falls on September 11 (however it may become a future one). Talk about the basis for a modern day "Passover". Prior Warning to Israelis - is that possible? Certainly the owner of WTC had a somewhat bogus excuse for not being there that day (doctors visit which his doctor's nurse at first denied) as did most of the large number of CIA workers (the WTC was the NY headquarters of CIA). Was there high level warning to Israelis and a few others, prior to the attack ? In an article in "Newsbytes," a news service of the fairly reliable "Washington Post," titled "Instant Messages To Israel Warned of WTC Attack", the answer is decidedly "yes" there was such a warning - and it was given to all Israelis who use the Odigo pager. And it was not labeled as a rumor nor as unsubstantiated. It seemed official. BTW, as it turn out, all Israelis who worked there were apparently using only this pager company - that alone is remarkable in that there were approximately 75 companies offering paging in lower Manhattan. The Israeli daily, Ha'aretz, also reported the prior warnings to Israel and confirmed that "the FBI is investigating the warnings." This apparently is news to the FBI - at least officially. The Ha'aretz article confirmed that an Israeli messaging firm, Odigo, with offices in both the World Trade Center and in Israel, had received a warnings just two hours before the attack. For some strange reason the Washington post has removed all trace of this from its site. And moreover, are all such anonymous warnings routinely forwarded to all subscribers? The FBI, at least its current press staff, publicly denies knowing anything about "Instant Messages" to Israelis or the Newsbyte's piece, despite the admission by the company officials at instant-messaging firm . Odigo definitely confirmed "that two employees [why two ? one in NY and one in Israel?] received anonymous but official looking text messages warning of an imminent attack on the World Trade Center" at least two hours before terrorists crashed planes into the landmark towers. This time, as it turns out, is approximately when Atta and his crew would have been boarding the plane at Logan. Was Atta being followed, and were his intentions known by someone? How nice for them to forward the tip to Odigo and keep the 4000 Israeli workers away that morning. Alex Diamandis, vice president of sales and marketing of the pager company, prior to it being bought by Comverse, confirmed that workers in Odigo's research and development and international sales office in Israel received a warning "from another Odigo user" approximately two hours prior to the first attack. He did not know of an American warning. He claimed the FBI had never contacted him about this. When asked if it is common practice for an anonymous tip of this type to be shared with every pager user in the USA, Diamandis declined comment and called off the interview This thread of sound bytes and coincidences (which as of now are no more than unchallenged allegations) was never investigated by NIST, at least it did not show up in the official report - and IF the FBI looked into it (of course they did), they are not talking today. So much for the toothless "Freedom of Information Act"... Signed, Harry Tuttle -soon to be an Odigo customer on my next trip to NYC, if they have not replaced that fine staff of theirs, after the Comverse acquisition... From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 12 10:23:34 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1CINMac022573; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 10:23:22 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1CINK0n022560; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 10:23:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 10:23:20 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060212175934833.CB7003C00091@mwinf3212.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060212175936.009d88c8@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 17:59:36 +0000 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66404 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > Harry Tuttle > -soon to be an Odigo customer on my next trip to NYC, > if they have not replaced that fine staff > of theirs, after the Comverse acquisition... You'll need to be circumscribed first, Harry. ;-) From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 12 10:29:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1CITRML025280; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 10:29:27 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1CITPi3025234; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 10:29:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 10:29:25 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060212103153.029c2100@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 10:32:45 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: Travel advice for NYC In-Reply-To: <002901c62ff9$11a38890$6401a8c0@NuDell> References: <002901c62ff9$11a38890$6401a8c0@NuDell> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66405 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones, What's the source url on this Tuttle article please? Thanks, s From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 12 10:31:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1CIV8o2026072; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 10:31:09 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1CIV6J2026042; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 10:31:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 10:31:06 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060212101435.029c3d48@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 10:34:39 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: Re: iESi Photoshop miracles In-Reply-To: <43EF300B.3080401@iinet.net.au> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20060211182858.0269d760@mail.newenergytimes.com> <43EF300B.3080401@iinet.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <4iQVT.A.2WG.p737DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66406 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >We need to end the messing about and get a proper cell up an running. Progress is under way Wesley, albeit slowly. It's just that the smarter companies are not trying to pitch cf to the public. They realize the need for qualified, high-capacity investors and they are working quietly, behind the scenes with private money. I know of no serious cf R&D entity that has a Web presence. For example, the company Ed Storms works with, and the company that Yang now works with. Those that truly appear to have viable technology are working fast and furious with their R&D > dev > app process and are hoping to keep a low profile so they can stand a chance to compete with the big industrial giants when this thing breaks. s From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 12 10:51:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1CIpedC003595; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 10:51:41 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1CIpcqM003546; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 10:51:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 10:51:38 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 13:51:30 -0500 Message-Id: <8C7FE1C78CE5815-1604-B9BE@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <2.2.32.20060212175936.009d88c8@pop.freeserve.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.20060212175936.009d88c8@pop.freeserve.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Beene's Bris Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.133 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66407 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Grimer > > Harry Tuttle > -soon to be an Odigo customer on my next trip to NYC, > if they have not replaced that fine staff > of theirs, after the Comverse acquisition... You'll need to be circumscribed first, Harry. ;-) <><><><><><><> Oy! I know the perfect shiker mohel for the job! ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 12 10:58:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1CIwh3x007641; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 10:58:43 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1CIwdHl007607; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 10:58:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 10:58:39 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=pacbell.net; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=wWXs+7u1HuNpyPmROJTFm7s7crHq6MSsVYu0i2+bfZLSFzw7x+B4m4iWRElGTZ2tDfu7gLg0a7ruAySH7/UGReKJ2rLIyt32q3cL6rdWadFtWU+pNqnnHzzQM5UD46xTZcezbRqmcGETqy8kcSlhxzqi6lvgx00nYmP75qj72K4= ; Message-ID: <20060212185838.42820.qmail@web81105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 10:58:38 -0800 (PST) From: Jones Beene Subject: Re: Beene's Bris To: vortex-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <8C7FE1C78CE5815-1604-B9BE@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66408 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thankfull,y those services (both the 'scribed and the 'sized) have 'res judicata' for the better part of a century --- hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Grimer > > Harry Tuttle > > -soon to be an Odigo customer on my next > trip to NYC, > > if they have not replaced that fine staff > > of theirs, after the Comverse > acquisition... > > You'll need to be circumscribed first, Harry. ;-) > > <><><><><><><> > > Oy! I know the perfect shiker mohel for the job! From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 12 11:31:08 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1CJUnd3023592; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 11:30:49 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1CJUlwH023581; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 11:30:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 11:30:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 14:30:43 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C7FE21F2F7FE65-1604-BAB5@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Earth's Precession - Chandler's Wobble Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.133 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66409 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: There's a good bit of chatter on the esoteric portion of the www about the world's waning wobble. Here is the actual data: http://maia.usno.navy.mil/plot-eop.html Some attribute this to the Great Rat of Sumatra or the earthquake in that area. But is this a chicken or an egg? Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 12 18:58:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1D2wDKi015587; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 18:58:14 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1D2w6eT015536; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 18:58:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 18:58:06 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <8C7FE21F2F7FE65-1604-BAB5@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C7FE21F2F7FE65-1604-BAB5@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Earth's Precession - Chandler's Wobble Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 17:54:45 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66410 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Feb 12, 2006, at 10:30 AM, hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote: > There's a good bit of chatter on the esoteric portion of the www > about the world's waning wobble. Here is the actual data: > > http://maia.usno.navy.mil/plot-eop.html > > Some attribute this to the Great Rat of Sumatra or the earthquake > in that area. But is this a chicken or an egg? I don't know what the "this" in the above sentence references or what the Great Rat of Sumatra is or what earthquake you reference, so I'm a bit lost here! This is indeed a neat web site - I wish I had more time right now to look into it: http://maia.usno.navy.mil/ I will say the length of day (LODS) data is nice evidence for a periodically changing gravimagnetic field. It demonstrates gravimagnetic induction due to a changing gravimagnetic field: dK/ dt. To make sense of the data it seems reasonable to do a Fourier analysis on it (as well as positional data) to look for unexpected influences. It looks like there is 329 day cycle in the positional data, and that period doesn't look familiar offhand. It looks like a Fourier analysis might account for: UT2-UT1 = 0.022 Sin(2*pi*T) - 0.012 cos(2*pi*T) - 0.006 sin(4*pi*T) + 0.007 cos(4*pi*T) where T is in Besselian years, i.e approximately years. However, it is very strange there should are biannual variations. There is also noted a long term (secular) slowing trend in the Earth's rotation. The web site notes: "The ancient observational data form the basis for estimates of the secular deceleration in the speed of rotation. ... The secular variation of the rotational speed seen by the apparently linear increase in the length of the day is due chiefly to tidal friction. The Moon raises tides in the ocean diminishing the speed of rotation. This effect causes a slowing of the Earth's rotational speed resulting in a lengthening of the day by about 0.0015 to 0.0020 seconds per day per century." I would note there are additional reasons for such a secular trend. These are (a) continual buildup of meteoric dust on the Earth, thus increasing the moment of inertia I and thus decreasing angular velocity, and (b) global warming. It may also be true there is a secular decreasing or increasing of the ambient gravimagnetic field. Global warming increases the Earth's diameter by crustal expansion. If there were a steel ring about the Earth's equator, and it increased in size by 0.01 percent due to thermal expansion, then, ignoring warping, crunching and crinkling of the band, the Earth's diameter would increase by 0.01/Pi percent. This too thus increases the moment of inertia I_earth and thus decreases angular velocity. I would also point out that secular variations in Earth's moment of inertia cannot be accounted for by atmospheric variation because average wind speed is limited to the speed of sound. However, the secular trend in angular velocity change appears to be *very very small* when looking at long term data! See: http://141.74.1.36/MainDisp.csl?pid=95-103 It shows angular velocity lows around 1696, 1752, 1811, 1846, 1887 (small min), 1894, 1902, 1912, 1945, 1993. See Table 1 below. Yr dt(Yrs) w_earth(prad/sec) 1696 0 151 1752 56 151.2 1811 59 151.42 1846 35 151.12 1887 41 151.50 1902 15 148.34 1912 10 148.18 1945 33 150.28 1993 48 149.47 Table 1 - Relative minimum angular velocity points It looks like we should throw out 1902 to get Table 1A. Yr dt(Yrs) w_earth(prad/sec) 1696 0 151 1752 56 151.2 1811 59 151.42 1846 35 151.12 1887 41 151.50 1912 25 148.18 1945 33 150.28 1993 48 149.47 Table 1A - Relative minimum angular velocity points Similarly, we have the maximums in Table 2. Yr dt(Yrs) w_earth (prad/sec) 1725 0 151.4 1797 72 152.3 1827 30 152.73 1867 39 153.91 1891 24 151.96 1934 42 151.53 1988 54 150.35 Table 2 - Relative maximum angular velocity points Combining Tables 1a and 2, and approximating a relative dW/dt the gravimagnetic induction, we have table 3. Yr dt(Yrs) W dW dW/dt 1696 0 151 1725 29 151.4 +0.40 +13.8 1752 27 151.2 -0.20 -7.4 1797 45 152.3 +0.10 +2.2 1811 14 151.42 -0.88 -62.9 1827 16 152.73 +1.31 +81.9 1846 19 151.12 -1.61 -84.7 1867 21 153.91 +2.79 +132.8 1887 20 151.50 -2.41 -120.5 1891 4 151.96 +0.46 +115.0 1912 21 148.18 -3.78 -180.0 1934 22 151.53 +3.35 +152.2 1945 11 150.28 -1.25 -113.6 1988 43 150.35 +0.07 +1.6 1993 8 149.47 -0.88 -110.0 Table 3 - Extreme angular velocity points We can see there were some wild ambient gravimagnetic field fluctuation from 1860 to 1945, with a peak around 1912, and it looks like the wild swings in gravimagnetic induction are about to come back. A wild and unjustified speculation follows! At first glance this gravimagnetic induction data looks like it arises from a pair of mutually orbiting black holes that do not have parallel alignment of their spin axes. Interestingly, a period of about 0.9 years shows up in the polar data at: http://maia.usno.navy.mil/plot-eop.html So, the speculation is the Earth local gravimagnetic induction is due to wild variations in Earth's ambient gravimagnetic field due to the mutual torquing of two black holes when in close proximity. Their mutual orbital period is about 40 years, with wild variations in orbital parameters and precession when in close proximity caused by their powerful mutual gravimagnetic influences. An overall cycle of 191 years is due to departure of the black holes from close proximity and thus the powerful mutual gravimagnetic influences, which are a 1/ r^3 effect. It looks like the black holes may have a mutually caused precession rate of about 0.9 years with a beat frequency of about 7 years. It looks like things are heating up between them, and a really big merger event is not far off - within a millennium. Speculation shield off. Lots of calculation and modeling are required to make certain sense of the data. Coincidentally, I already have a nice chunk of the computational capability required to do this, but not the time. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 12 19:22:02 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1D3LeDJ026782; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 19:21:41 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1D3LdHg026763; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 19:21:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 19:21:39 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <001c01c63048$60bbb250$7f027841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: References: <2.2.32.20060212175936.009d88c8@pop.freeserve.net> Subject: Re: Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 20:51:23 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2005-06-05) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.3 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,RCVD_IN_XBL, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66411 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Watching a woman on fire jumping to escape the flames is enough to convince me I was watching evil personified. Did you watch the TV of her falling in flames? The perps must have had a strong stomach to watch an innocent women die like that then laugh and cheer about it. Who could hate like that? Come judgement day, they better have a VERY strong stomach because thats when they will need it. Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grimer" To: Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 11:59 AM Subject: Re: > >> >> Harry Tuttle >> -soon to be an Odigo customer on my next trip to NYC, >> if they have not replaced that fine staff >> of theirs, after the Comverse acquisition... > > You'll need to be circumscribed first, Harry. ;-) > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 12 19:43:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1D3hBUq003725; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 19:43:12 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1D3hAWr003702; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 19:43:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 19:43:10 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 22:40:09 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: Travel advice for NYC In-reply-to: <002901c62ff9$11a38890$6401a8c0@NuDell> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66412 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones Beene wrote: > > As it turns out, at least 4000 Israelis were 'supposed' to be > working at the WTC on 9/11, as the "Jerusalem Times" had dutifully > reported on 9/12. This is a matter of public record. What they reported was that 4000 Israelis were believed to be in the _vicinity_ of the WTC at the time of the disaster. Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 13 07:09:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1DF8xo7010584; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 07:09:01 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1DF8vq3010569; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 07:08:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 07:08:57 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 10:08:49 -0500 Message-Id: <8C7FEC6876CCE59-A14-165A3@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <8C7FE21F2F7FE65-1604-BAB5@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Earth's Precession - Chandler's Wobble Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.69 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k1DF8umu010542 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66413 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Horace Heffner   I don't know what the "this" in the above sentence references or what the Great Rat of Sumatra is or what earthquake you reference, so I'm a bit lost here!  <><><><><><><> I'm not surprised. You'd have to be a Firesign Theatre fan to recognize the reference. The earthquake in question was the Sumatran quake which caused the tidal wave that killed so many. ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 13 07:15:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1DFFGD4013483; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 07:15:16 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1DFFDQ6013446; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 07:15:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 07:15:13 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 10:15:06 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C7FEC767CD8617-A14-165E9@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: Travel advice for NYC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.69 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66414 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Harry Veeder Jones Beene wrote: > > As it turns out, at least 4000 Israelis were 'supposed' to be > working at the WTC on 9/11, as the "Jerusalem Times" had dutifully > reported on 9/12. This is a matter of public record. What they reported was that 4000 Israelis were believed to be in the _vicinity_ of the WTC at the time of the disaster. <><><><><><><> Amazin' what some people will believe! http://www.snopes.com/rumors/israel.htm http://usinfo.state.gov/media/Archive/2005/Jan/14-260933.html Of course you can't believe the latter reference because it's from our government. ;-) ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 13 07:32:24 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1DFW93k019918; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 07:32:10 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1DFW8me019895; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 07:32:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 07:32:08 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <002b01c630b2$a2ec39a0$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <8C7FE21F2F7FE65-1604-BAB5@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> <8C7FEC6876CCE59-A14-165A3@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> Subject: TT Brown "Swing" pendulum Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 07:32:01 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: <2dgpc.A.y2E.3ZK8DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66415 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This may be for interest to anti-gravity or gravimagnetic theory: http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/EclipseLab/2k1/EG/cellgrav.html Executive Summary: This is very important, according to the modest assesssment of the experimenter, as an experiment because it confirms that the thrust generated in accordance with Biefeld-Brown theory is not caused by air movement. If this is true, then it is an important experiment, but I'm not so sure that he has eliminated air movement and other mundane causes as the main contributor. "Thomas Townsend Brown experimented with many different types of so-called "gravitators" during his work on electrogravitics. A gravitator is defined as at least two metal plates separated by a dielectric, with a high voltage applied therebetween. In this sense, the definition is almost that of a normal capacitor, but the empirical effects are different. Brown's gravitators were either cellular or homogeneous. They were either many many small gravitators put into one box and wired in series, or simply a chunk of high dielectric constant material with electrodes at either end. Brown used in one instance lead foil and cellulose acetate for a cellular capacitor, but made 10,000 layers in his gravitator. The whole array weighed 10kg and when charged to 50 kilovolts experienced a force of 25,000 dynes in the direction of negative to positive. It was a similar model which he used to power a small model ship and amaze visitors by moving it with no apparent propulsive means. His homogenous gravitators tended to be slabs of either bakelite litharge (lead dioxide powder mixed with plastic and set) or the legendary Koolau basalt from Hawaii, used later in his experiments with "petroelectricity." This attempt uses earthenware tiles to form the dielectric cells of a gravitator of six cells, in two versions - one wired in parallel (positive-negative-positive-negative style), and one wired in series. The voltages used will be 175, 88 and 44 kilovolts. Wow. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 13 07:56:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1DFtn5M001150; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 07:55:50 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1DFtVCS001067; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 07:55:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 07:55:31 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <003201c630b5$e4fa4aa0$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <8C7FEC767CD8617-A14-165E9@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: Travel advice for NYC Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 07:55:20 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: <6nN_f.A.gQ.xvK8DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66416 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Terry and Harry... Methinks you guys are glossing over the whole point of the original posting... It was made to be slightly humorous in a sardonic sense [or so I had hoped] for one major reason. The point is simply this: Our government should have investigated these claims and counterclaims thoroughly and then issued an official statement dealing with them instead of the *joke* investigation which we were given. They did not. Why? That is the real question. We can let Ken Star spend $50 million to turn up a soiled dress and evidence of marital infidelity, but as a nation we cannot find the means to cough more than a third of that sum - for a paltry and superficial investigation - Go figure - and for an event which led us into a war where one trillion dollars will be spent - Go figure - and for which will come out of it LESS SECURE from terrorism - and with no more access to cheap oil than before - than if nothing had been done - Go figure. Does that make sense to anyone? It only makes sense in the context of the motives of a third party which wanted the USA to go to war, and was will to do the same kind of unspeakable acts to accomplish this - which they have been known to do in the past ("patriotic" to them, unspeakably brutal to everyone else). I think the possibility of Mossad being proven to have been involved is abetting the terrorists is not great, but it is definitely there - and our government should have been vigilant to uncover any level of help given to the Arab terrorists by those whose own aims are furthered by the acts they abetted. The facts are in dispute ! true, no one denies this - and this counter web-site mentioned, which might have been funded by Mossad sympathizers, who knows? will help no one in determining the real truth. It will only spawn more conspiracy theories based on who funded its own misleading propaganda. We NEED as a national priority - a REAL independent investigation from a well-funded independent prosecutor with a large staff and carte blanche at FBI - who will have the ultimate capability of sending to prison even those in our own CIA and FBI - if any of those renegade agents are found to be complicit in this. I am sure there was ZERO high level complicity but we know there are hardliners and Israeli spies in both agencies. That is the whole point of the piece. The facts and rumors surrounding 9/11 are in dispute, and always will be, up until such time as we have a real and independent Congressionally mandated investigation. That goal will probably demand "regime change" to accomplish. Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 13 08:26:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1DGPrVT016675; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 08:25:54 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1DGPlPW016622; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 08:25:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 08:25:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <43F0B300.9050407@pobox.com> Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 11:25:36 -0500 From: "Stephen A. Lawrence" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20060202 Fedora/1.7.12-1.5.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: Travel advice for NYC References: <8C7FEC767CD8617-A14-165E9@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C7FEC767CD8617-A14-165E9@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <9RvdkB.A.mDE.JML8DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66417 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Harry Veeder > > Jones Beene wrote: > >> >> As it turns out, at least 4000 Israelis were 'supposed' to be >> working at the WTC on 9/11, as the "Jerusalem Times" had dutifully >> reported on 9/12. This is a matter of public record. > > > What they reported was that 4000 Israelis were believed to be in the > _vicinity_ of the WTC at the time of the disaster. > > <><><><><><><> > > Amazin' what some people will believe! > > http://www.snopes.com/rumors/israel.htm > > http://usinfo.state.gov/media/Archive/2005/Jan/14-260933.html > > Of course you can't believe the latter reference because it's from our > government. Thank you, Terry. There is an unbelievable amount of anti-semitic garbage on the web ... so much so that a plausible first reaction on seeing a surprising report that makes Israel look bad is to ask where the information came from, and then check references to see if the original data were actually what was claimed. If it's anti-semitic in slant _and_ it's a "conspiracy-theory" story one should proceed with extreme caution. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 13 08:41:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1DGf6bD029575; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 08:41:06 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1DGf4XS029533; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 08:41:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 08:41:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <8C7FEC6876CCE59-A14-165A3@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C7FE21F2F7FE65-1604-BAB5@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> <8C7FEC6876CCE59-A14-165A3@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <41AF6CD9-C2D6-48E8-B31B-C1E835FEABBB@mtaonline.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Earth's Precession - Chandler's Wobble Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 07:37:44 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66418 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Feb 13, 2006, at 6:08 AM, hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote: > > The earthquake in question was the Sumatran quake which caused the > tidal wave that killed so many. I don't understand why people would link that singe event to periodic waves that have been around for centuries. It certainly is true that a gyrating pair of black holes in close vicinity could trigger earthquakes, as could crustal expansion due to global warming, but I have not see anything in particular that links a quake to last Christmas. In fact, the gravimagnetic induction data would indicate a maximum of quakes in the 1846-1934 period. Yr dt(Yrs) W dW dW/dt 1696 0 151 1725 29 151.4 +0.40 +13.8 1752 27 151.2 -0.20 -7.4 1797 45 152.3 +0.10 +2.2 1811 14 151.42 -0.88 -62.9 1827 16 152.73 +1.31 +81.9 1846 19 151.12 -1.61 -84.7 1867 21 153.91 +2.79 +132.8 1887 20 151.50 -2.41 -120.5 1891 4 151.96 +0.46 +115.0 1912 21 148.18 -3.78 -180.0 1934 22 151.53 +3.35 +152.2 1945 11 150.28 -1.25 -113.6 1988 43 150.35 +0.07 +1.6 1993 8 149.47 -0.88 -110.0 Table 3 - Extreme angular velocity points Maybe there was a big shift in some kind of data around Christmas? There is nothing special in: http://maia.usno.navy.mil/lplot2.gif http://maia.usno.navy.mil/yplot2.gif http://maia.usno.navy.mil/xplot2.gif except maybe it looks fairly quiet. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 13 09:05:43 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1DH5Qgp014711; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 09:05:26 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1DH5Oi9014685; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 09:05:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 09:05:24 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <43F0BC4B.7010603@pobox.com> Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 12:05:15 -0500 From: "Stephen A. Lawrence" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20060202 Fedora/1.7.12-1.5.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: Travel advice for NYC References: <8C7FEC767CD8617-A14-165E9@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> <003201c630b5$e4fa4aa0$6401a8c0@NuDell> In-Reply-To: <003201c630b5$e4fa4aa0$6401a8c0@NuDell> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66419 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones Beene wrote: > Terry and Harry... > > Methinks you guys are glossing over the whole point of the original > posting... > > It was made to be slightly humorous in a sardonic sense [or so I had > hoped] for one major reason. The point is simply this: Our government > should have investigated these claims and counterclaims thoroughly and > then issued an official statement dealing with them instead of the > *joke* investigation which we were given. > > They did not. Why? Our government has little interest in any kind of investigation of 9/11. There is just about no chance it could result in Bush&Co looking _better_ and every chance that it could make them look worse, whether or not there's a deep dark secret there beyond the obvious fact that they somehow dropped the ball. The fact that some particular set of claims about 9/11 have not been "thoroughly investigated" proves nothing, _suggests_ nothing, beyond the bare fact that 9/11 wasn't handled well and Bush and Cheney would rather have the details forgotten and only the bare fact that it was "terrorism" and that we are living with a major "threat" remembered. > That is the real question. We can let Ken Star spend $50 million to turn > up a soiled dress and evidence of marital infidelity, Here's what you need to ask: Who benefits from the _investigation_? Who doesn't benefit from the _investigation_? With a congress and the President both from the same party, and an administration with a strong grip on the centers of power, why would you expect them to launch a thorough investigation into how the President and administration might have failed us on 9/11? No conspiracy theory is needed to explain this aspect of it. > but as a nation we "as a nation" we have nothing to do with the investigation. Ask your congressional leaders why the investigation has been luke-warm. You'll quickly find they're all from the same party as the President and nobody wants a good hard stare directed into this. Things may change a little if the Dems sweep both houses in November, which is possible. > cannot find the means to cough more than a third of that sum - for a > paltry and superficial investigation - Go figure - and for an event > which led us into a war where one trillion dollars will be spent - Go > figure - and for which will come out of it LESS SECURE from terrorism - > and with no more access to cheap oil than before - than if nothing had > been done - Go figure. Does that make sense to anyone? > > It only makes sense in the context of the motives of a third party which > wanted the USA to go to war, Are you suggesting that some non-Arab group perpetrated the WTC destruction to pull us into a war with the Arabs, and that no other interpretation makes sense? That is abject nonsense. Please note that no connection was ever drawn between Iraq and 9/11. If someone wanted an excuse to get us to invade Iraq, you'd think they could have done better than faking a Bin Laden video, given, particularly, the fact that Bin Laden and Hussein were from opposite sides of the Shiite/Sunni split. We got into Iraq as a result of proof-by-assertion arguments by the President. The engineers of 9/11, whoever they were, gave him very little help on it, as far as I can see. > and was will to do the same kind of > unspeakable acts to accomplish this - which they have been known to do > in the past ("patriotic" to them, unspeakably brutal to everyone else). > I think the possibility of Mossad being proven to have been involved is > abetting the terrorists is not great, but it is definitely there Why pick on Mossad? Why not, say, the KGB (or whatever they're called nowadays) or the British secret service? Check your sources, all the way back to the origin, regarding Mossad's involvement. > - and > our government should have been vigilant to uncover any level of help > given to the Arab terrorists by those whose own aims are furthered by > the acts they abetted. > > The facts are in dispute ! true, no one denies this - and this counter > web-site mentioned, which might have been funded by Mossad sympathizers, > who knows? "Mossad sympathizers?" And perhaps the source of some of the anti-Mossad, anti-Israel, conspiracy-theory information you've been drawing on was funded by anti-semitic elements...? > will help no one in determining the real truth. It will only > spawn more conspiracy theories based on who funded its own misleading > propaganda. > > We NEED as a national priority - a REAL independent investigation from a > well-funded independent prosecutor Don't hold your breath. When you have one party controlling both houses of congress and the presidency, you don't get thorough investigations of anything. This is trivially obvious and doesn't indicate the presence of some huge conspiracy. > with a large staff and carte blanche > at FBI - who will have the ultimate capability of sending to prison even > those in our own CIA and FBI - if any of those renegade agents are found > to be complicit in this. I am sure there was ZERO high level complicity > but we know there are hardliners and Israeli spies in both agencies. We do? Just how do we "know" there _are_ _currently_ Israeli spies in the CIA and FBI? What is the source of this information -- the original source, not just a website? > That is the whole point of the piece. > > The facts and rumors surrounding 9/11 are in dispute, and always will > be, up until such time as we have a real and independent Congressionally > mandated investigation. That goal will probably demand "regime change" > to accomplish. First sensible thing you said here. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 13 09:08:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1DH7q8x016527; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 09:07:52 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1DH7oPQ016502; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 09:07:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 09:07:50 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <008f01c630bf$cf1ed930$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <8C7FEC767CD8617-A14-165E9@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> <43F0B300.9050407@pobox.com> Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: Travel advice for NYC Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 09:06:19 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66420 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stephen, > There is an unbelievable amount of anti-semitic garbage on the > web ... Yes this is true. And the "S" in Semitic should be capitalized. Let me state for the record, that I do not have an anti-Semitic bone in my body, am a big fan of almost everything in traditional Jewish culture and literature, and am perhaps the only vortexian to (partially) speak Yiddish. I do not like their Spy Agency messing in US internal events, however, and I detest the radical form of Zionism, and even Sharon - as do most of my Jewish-American friends. Please be aware of this salient fact: YOU CAN ACCUSE MOSSAD OF INVOLVEMENT IN WTC without being anti-Semitic. You can detest Mossad without being anti-Semitic. You can detest radical Zionism (including Sharon) without being anti-Semitic ! Any attempt to portray this investigation of Mossad and 9/11 as anti-Semitic is itself anti-American and DESPICABLE from anyone who considers himself to be an open-minded American partiot. And BTW our own State Department site is intentionally pandering **Disinformation** on this issue. One hopes it is not based on an ulterior motive to protect those in the administration who are friends of Mossad. They (State) do no address the issue of the *single* Israeli casualty (i.e citizen of Israel), nor the Odigo warning, but instead they intentionally try to confuse that issue (and make it appear as anti-Semitic - by callously throwing in the names of all the Jewish Americans who perished. This in itself is an act of anti-Semitism in that it assumes that if you have a Jewish wounding name, you are Jewish. They did not check the action religious preference of these people (as such would be a violation of law - for one thing). That is not only IRRELEVANT, as an implication (unless any of them were patrons of Odigo) but is somewhat disrespectful of their memory and is anti-Semitic in its assumptions. Shame on you! Department of State for this piece of intentional disinformation, disrespect for the families of the deceased, and veiled anti-Semitism! From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 13 10:19:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1DIIxKp022608; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 10:18:59 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1DIIso4022558; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 10:18:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 10:18:54 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060213131823.034d23f0@mindspring.com> Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060213131428.03478c28@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 13:18:42 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Western Union sends last telegram Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66421 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: See: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/11147506/ I had no idea they still transmitted them! They carried 20,000 last year, at $10 per message. Obsolete technology sometimes lingers for decades. There were still a few full-rigged sailing ships in the Atlantic trade in the 1930s, when my father was in the merchant marine. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 13 11:53:33 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1DJrJmg000861; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 11:53:20 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1DJrFHi000813; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 11:53:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 11:53:15 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <43F0E39D.7030600@pobox.com> Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 14:53:01 -0500 From: "Stephen A. Lawrence" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20060202 Fedora/1.7.12-1.5.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: Travel advice for NYC References: <8C7FEC767CD8617-A14-165E9@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> <43F0B300.9050407@pobox.com> <008f01c630bf$cf1ed930$6401a8c0@NuDell> In-Reply-To: <008f01c630bf$cf1ed930$6401a8c0@NuDell> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66422 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones Beene wrote: > Stephen, > >> There is an unbelievable amount of anti-semitic garbage on the web ... > > > Yes this is true. And the "S" in Semitic should be capitalized. > > Let me state for the record, that I do not have an anti-Semitic bone in > my body, am a big fan of almost everything in traditional Jewish culture > and literature, and am perhaps the only vortexian to (partially) speak > Yiddish. I do not like their Spy Agency messing in US internal events, > however, and I detest the radical form of Zionism, and even Sharon - as > do most of my Jewish-American friends. > > Please be aware of this salient fact: > > YOU CAN ACCUSE MOSSAD OF INVOLVEMENT IN WTC without being anti-Semitic. > You can detest Mossad without being anti-Semitic. You can detest radical > Zionism (including Sharon) without being anti-Semitic ! > > Any attempt to portray this investigation of Mossad and 9/11 as > anti-Semitic is itself anti-American and DESPICABLE from anyone who > considers himself to be an open-minded American partiot. OK, points taken... sorry. I spend too much time hanging around the relativity newsgroup, where real anti-Semitism crops up all too often. And then I start seeing it where it isn't. > And BTW our own State Department site is intentionally pandering > **Disinformation** on this issue. One hopes it is not based on an > ulterior motive to protect those in the administration who are friends > of Mossad. > > They (State) do no address the issue of the *single* Israeli casualty > (i.e citizen of Israel), nor the Odigo warning, but instead they > intentionally try to confuse that issue (and make it appear as > anti-Semitic - by callously throwing in the names of all the Jewish > Americans who perished. This in itself is an act of anti-Semitism in > that it assumes that if you have a Jewish wounding name, you are Jewish. > They did not check the action religious preference of these people (as > such would be a violation of law - for one thing). That is not only > IRRELEVANT, as an implication (unless any of them were patrons of Odigo) > but is somewhat disrespectful of their memory and is anti-Semitic in its > assumptions. > > Shame on you! Department of State for this piece of intentional > disinformation, disrespect for the families of the deceased, and veiled > anti-Semitism! > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 13 13:34:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1DLYCJ2025753; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 13:34:12 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1DLYAwc025733; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 13:34:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 13:34:10 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: TT Brown X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: ID = 909b8a8ff0cae19159d456a4b333f05c Reply-To: michael.foster@excite.com From: "Michael Foster" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: michael.foster@excite.com X-Mailer: PHP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20060213213405.00AEB373F9@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com> Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 16:34:05 -0500 (EST) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66423 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones wrote: > This may be for interest to anti-gravity or gravimagnetic theory: > http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/EclipseLab/2k1/EG/cellgrav.html > Executive Summary: This is very important, according to the modest > assesssment of the experimenter, as an experiment because it > confirms that the thrust generated in accordance with > Biefeld-Brown theory is not caused by air movement. If this is > true, then it is an important experiment, but I'm not so sure that > he has eliminated air movement and other mundane causes as the > main contributor. Although I've had a couple of positive results myself with grav-cap experiments, I haven't posted anything because I'm not sure I've eliminated all the potential artifacts with conventional explanation. I don't think this fellow's effort is suffering from corona leakage, but there may be a simple prosaic explanation for his results. With the intermittent application of a high voltage source to his capacitor, there might be a physical flexing or twisting of the device. In this case, it would be the same as a person kicking his legs to make a swing work. If this is what was happening, no unusual physical theory is required. M. _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 13 13:59:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1DLxIYf007827; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 13:59:19 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1DLxF4f007773; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 13:59:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 13:59:15 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060213140220.028a3288@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 14:02:43 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: minor iESI update Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <2wymI.A.R5B.zEQ8DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66424 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://newenergytimes.com/SR/IESI.htm From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 13 14:26:55 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1DMB53l014858; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 14:11:06 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1DMAww1014779; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 14:10:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 14:10:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <011b01c630ea$59c3c300$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" References: <20060213213405.00AEB373F9@xprdmailfe14.nwk.excite.com> Subject: Re: TT Brown Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 14:10:50 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: <0tYYCD.A.1mD.xPQ8DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66425 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael, > I don't think this fellow's effort is suffering from corona > leakage, > but there may be a simple prosaic explanation for his results. > With > the intermittent application of a high voltage source to his > capacitor, > there might be a physical flexing or twisting of the device. In > this > case, it would be the same as a person kicking his legs to make > a > swing work. If this is what was happening, no unusual physical > theory > is required. Apparently the tiles are for dielectric strength and the added mass makes any net movement more impressive, but as you surmise - it is probably due to something like the leads twisting slightly with each pulse and then this twitch being made resonant like the playground swing. If he is really getting that kind of voltage to his pendulum (he mentions 175 kv !) he probably needs the thick tiles but even the thickest silicon leads are not rated to that kind of voltage. Speaking of advanced dielectrics, I've been hearing a lot of stuff about nanocrystalline barium titanate for unusually high dielectric strength. A claimed battery-technology advance which keeps being "leaked" to the investment community is the EEStor Bat-Cap - soon to be released - which is apparently based on new form of barium titanate as the "secret" dielectric for the negative side - which allows more electron charge to be stored in the capacitor segments while the positive charge remains in the ions of the electrolyte (this is just a guess, based on what the leaked info). I wonder if this news blip is related: http://research.ucdavis.edu/ncd.cfm?caseno=2003-010 From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 13 18:13:12 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1E2Ce5E027018; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 18:12:45 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1E2CdxL026987; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 18:12:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 18:12:39 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <002901c6310c$19ebcc10$42027841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: Cintra of Spain ?? Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 20:12:25 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0025_01C630D9.CE5E7090"; type="multipart/alternative" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2005-06-05) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66426 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C630D9.CE5E7090 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0026_01C630D9.CE5E7090" ------=_NextPart_001_0026_01C630D9.CE5E7090 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankHi Vorts, Anyone know these people ? Seems Cintra has entered the Tollroad = business in the USA. They have a contract in Canada, one in Chicago , = one in Indiana and a super huge one in Texas. BUT>> WHO ARE THEY ?? = Their headquarters are in Spain and they have an Australian partner.. Richard. ------=_NextPart_001_0026_01C630D9.CE5E7090 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Hi Vorts,
 
Anyone know these people ? Seems Cintra has entered the Tollroad = business=20 in the USA. They have a contract in Canada, one in Chicago , one in = Indiana and=20 a super huge one in Texas. BUT>>  WHO ARE THEY ?? Their = headquarters=20 are in Spain and they have an Australian partner..
 
Richard.

 

------=_NextPart_001_0026_01C630D9.CE5E7090-- ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C630D9.CE5E7090 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <002401c6310c$18f2c610$42027841@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C630D9.CE5E7090-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 13 18:24:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1E2OEJe032751; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 18:24:15 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1E2ODNj032740; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 18:24:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 18:24:13 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=ix.netcom.com; b=jM4oxfXEK7F9YZOBpA0LlyMzAYF7N1PrXlrn/LM9/GXgV6d38npP2YpYXTzR/pyZ; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006211318245850@ix.netcom.com> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: aki@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.1.47.0 (Windows) From: "" To: "vortex-l" Subject: FW: NY team confirms UCLA tabletop fusion Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 18:24:05 -00 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: c4cc7f5f697e8746f66dc3a06d5924d8db80b340823502b3f7b0b3e35dbdecc087b2572753744e27350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 216.175.84.59 Resent-Message-ID: <7RXBvD.A.g_H.N9T8DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66427 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII February 13, 2006 Hi, Vortex, Just in time for Valentine's Day? My son is aware of my faith in the CF effect. In fact he helped me continue my experiment in 1999 - 2000 while I became hospitalized. SO, he is somewhat attuned to things CF when he runs across them. I am forwarding the item below for our consideration and celebration. -ak- ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Kawasaki To: aki@ix.netcom.com Sent: 2/13/2006 9:19:49 PM Subject: NY team confirms UCLA tabletop fusion http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/ny_team_confirms_ucla_tabletop_fusion_10017.html Researchers at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute have developed a tabletop accelerator that produces nuclear fusion at room temperature, providing confirmation of an earlier experiment conducted at the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA), while offering substantial improvements over the original design. The device, which uses two opposing crystals to generate a powerful electric field, could potentially lead to a portable, battery-operated neutron generator for a variety of applications, from non-destructive testing to detecting explosives and scanning luggage at airports. The new results are described in the Feb. 10 issue of Physical Review Letters. "Our study shows that 'crystal fusion' is a mature technology with considerable commercial potential," says Yaron Danon, associate professor of mechanical, aerospace, and nuclear engineering at Rensselaer. "This new device is simpler and less expensive than the previous version, and it has the potential to produce even more neutrons." The device is essentially a tabletop particle accelerator. At its heart are two opposing "pyroelectric" crystals that create a strong electric field when heated or cooled. The device is filled with deuterium gas -- a more massive cousin of hydrogen with an extra neutron in its nucleus. The electric field rips electrons from the gas, creating deuterium ions and accelerating them into a deuterium target on one of the crystals. When the particles smash into the target, neutrons are emitted, which is the telltale sign that nuclear fusion has occurred, according to Danon. A research team led by Seth Putterman, professor of physics at UCLA, reported on a similar apparatus in 2005, but two important features distinguish the new device: "Our device uses two crystals instead of one, which doubles the acceleration potential," says Jeffrey Geuther, a graduate student in nuclear engineering at Rensselaer and lead author of the paper. "And our setup does not require cooling the crystals to cryogenic temperatures -- an important step that reduces both the complexity and the cost of the equipment." The new study also verified the fundamental physics behind the original experiment. This suggests that pyroelectric crystals are in fact a viable means of producing nuclear fusion, and that commercial applications may be closer than originally thought, according to Danon. "Nuclear fusion has been explored as a potential source of power, but we are not looking at this as an energy source right now," Danon says. Rather, the most immediate application may come in the form of a battery-operated, portable neutron generator. Such a device could be used to detect explosives or to scan luggage at airports, and it could also be an important tool for a wide range of laboratory experiments. The concept could also lead to a portable x-ray generator, according to Danon. "There is already a commercial portable pyroelectric x-ray product available, but it does not produce enough energy to provide the 50,000 electron volts needed for medical imaging," he says. "Our device is capable of producing about 200,000 electron volts, which could meet these requirements and could also be enough to penetrate several millimeters of steel." In the more distant future, Danon envisions a number of other medical applications of pyroelectric crystals, including a wearable device that could provide safe, continuous cancer treatment. Dan Kawasaki ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
 

February 13, 2006
 
Hi, Vortex,
 
Just in time for Valentine's Day?
My son is aware of my faith in the CF effect. In fact he helped me continue my experiment in 1999 - 2000 while I became hospitalized. SO, he is somewhat attuned to things CF when he runs across them.
I am forwarding the item below for our consideration and celebration.
-ak-
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 2/13/2006 9:19:49 PM
Subject: NY team confirms UCLA tabletop fusion

http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/ny_team_confirms_ucla_tabletop_fusion_10017.html

Researchers at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute have developed a tabletop accelerator that produces nuclear fusion at room temperature, providing confirmation of an earlier experiment conducted at the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA), while offering substantial improvements over the original design.
The device, which uses two opposing crystals to generate a powerful electric field, could potentially lead to a portable, battery-operated neutron generator for a variety of applications, from non-destructive testing to detecting explosives and scanning luggage at airports. The new results are described in the Feb. 10 issue of Physical Review Letters.
"Our study shows that 'crystal fusion' is a mature technology with considerable commercial potential," says Yaron Danon, associate professor of mechanical, aerospace, and nuclear engineering at Rensselaer. "This new device is simpler and less expensive than the previous version, and it has the potential to produce even more neutrons."
The device is essentially a tabletop particle accelerator. At its heart are two opposing "pyroelectric" crystals that create a strong electric field when heated or cooled. The device is filled with deuterium gas -- a more massive cousin of hydrogen with an extra neutron in its nucleus. The electric field rips electrons from the gas, creating deuterium ions and accelerating them into a deuterium target on one of the crystals. When the particles smash into the target, neutrons are emitted, which is the telltale sign that nuclear fusion has occurred, according to Danon.
A research team led by Seth Putterman, professor of physics at UCLA, reported on a similar apparatus in 2005, but two important features distinguish the new device: "Our device uses two crystals instead of one, which doubles the acceleration potential," says Jeffrey Geuther, a graduate student in nuclear engineering at Rensselaer and lead author of the paper. "And our setup does not require cooling the crystals to cryogenic temperatures -- an important step that reduces both the complexity and the cost of the equipment."
The new study also verified the fundamental physics behind the original experiment. This suggests that pyroelectric crystals are in fact a viable means of producing nuclear fusion, and that commercial applications may be closer than originally thought, according to Danon.
"Nuclear fusion has been explored as a potential source of power, but we are not looking at this as an energy source right now," Danon says. Rather, the most immediate application may come in the form of a battery-operated, portable neutron generator. Such a device could be used to detect explosives or to scan luggage at airports, and it could also be an important tool for a wide range of laboratory experiments.
The concept could also lead to a portable x-ray generator, according to Danon. "There is already a commercial portable pyroelectric x-ray product available, but it does not produce enough energy to provide the 50,000 electron volts needed for medical imaging," he says. "Our device is capable of producing about 200,000 electron volts, which could meet these requirements and could also be enough to penetrate several millimeters of steel."
In the more distant future, Danon envisions a number of other medical applications of pyroelectric crystals, including a wearable device that could provide safe, continuous cancer treatment.



Dan Kawasaki 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 13 18:40:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1E2eFQM008761; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 18:40:16 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1E2eCwI008724; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 18:40:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 18:40:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 21:40:07 -0500 Message-Id: <8C7FF2719E97719-2658-18018@mblkn-m02.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <002901c6310c$19ebcc10$42027841@xptower> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <002901c6310c$19ebcc10$42027841@xptower> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Cintra of Spain ?? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.66 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66428 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: RC Macaulay Subject: Cintra of Spain ?? Anyone know these people ? <><><><><><> And Texas: http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/01/30wear.html http://tinyurl.com/9t9x8 They're just in it for the profit: http://home.nestor.minsk.by/build/press/2006/01/2415.html You know, capitalism? Their parent: http://www.ferrovial.com/index.asp Hey socialists can be capitalists too, eh? Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 13 20:41:46 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1E4fIiO012670; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 20:41:18 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1E4f8mV012570; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 20:41:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 20:41:08 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=mumf7tnunMLq2rRfgzsmxIJcivBCcVqNYYKX5/nGlTdE0beApY3UXhT1dtH1cjcg; h=Received:From:To:Subject:Date:User-Agent:References:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Disposition:Message-Id:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; From: Standing Bear To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Your Surrender has Been Ordered Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 23:51:51 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B0FD548@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060208101238.03493ec0@mindspring.com> In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060208101238.03493ec0@mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200602132351.51643.rockcast@earthlink.net> X-ELNK-Trace: 161777525297e62b1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79d5214d57c5d65fcccb85a8cff956f378350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 71.115.188.143 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66429 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wednesday 08 February 2006 10:13, Jed Rothwell wrote: > The URL is difficult to enter, and the article is short and mainly > quotes, so I will take the liberty of uploading it. As Chris Zell > says, it is sadly defeatist. > > - Jed > > > Exxon: America will always rely on foreign oil > Tue Feb 7, 2006 2:19 PM ET > > HOUSTON (Reuters) - The United States will always rely on foreign > imports of oil to feed its energy needs and should stop trying to > become energy independent, a top Exxon Mobil Corp. executive said on > Tuesday. > > "Realistically, it is simply not feasible in any time period relevant > to our discussion today," Exxon Mobil Senior Vice President Stuart > McGill said, referring to what he called the "misperception" that the > United States can achieve energy independence. > > The comments, in a speech at an energy conference in Houston, come a > few days after U.S. President George W. Bush declared America was > addicted to Middle Eastern oil and promised to help the country kick the > habit. > > Many in the United States believe America should wean itself off oil > imports from the Middle East, fearing it makes the country > dangerously dependent on an unstable region. > > The world's largest publicly traded oil company, however, says hoping > to end foreign oil imports is not only a bad idea, but also impossible. > > "Americans depend upon imports to fill the gap," McGill said. "No > combination of conservation measures, alternative energy sources and > technological advances could realistically and economically provide a > way to completely replace those imports in the short or medium term." > > Instead of trying to achieve energy independence, importing nations > like the U.S. should be promoting energy interdependence, McGill said. > > "Because we are all contributing to and drawing from the same pool of > oil, all nations -- exporting and importing -- are inextricably bound > to one another in the energy marketplace," he said. The above big oil executive is only thinking of his industry and the best way to further it, and not at all about the best interests of this country. It is well to look at the natural intentions of individuals like that when they speak to where we should go as a nation. This chap does not want us to even try to become independant. If we did, what on earth would we need him for? The way to become independant is to run a crash program for nuclear power using the fast breeder cycle for reprocessing, and small reactors in local areas for general power. We should shy away from the giant technology challenging types that are difficult to build and prone to failures like Rancho Seco in California. Rancho Seco was a technology challenging project because it used so called the 'plastic design' philosophy when designing the main turbines. As a result, the project suffered continual failures of the turbine blades. The reactor was just fine. It was the other parts that gave problems simply because some program managers wanted to make a name for themselves at public expense. The project would be cumulative, as each unit of the project would subtract so much from our dependance, and as long as the rate of build was greater than the rate of increase of our energy needs, the incremental benefits of reduced dependance on international nutjobs would work continually in our favor to improve our standard of living. Let that Exxon Mobil executive be exiled another country like Saudi Arabia or Iran or Iraq. He obviousely does'nt care about Americans except how much money he can blackmail out of us. Of course he encourages defeatism, would'nt YOU if you were a fantastically rich blackmailer of nations? Standing Bear From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 13 20:48:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1E4lvMo016511; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 20:47:58 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1E4lq2f016445; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 20:47:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 20:47:52 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=MNyiq82P7PO5I+ul5h9PLdzIswD/sHwD6IgbQ0II3oHBPL/FsARWkDGtwBW4iRiQ; h=Received:From:To:Subject:Date:User-Agent:References:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Disposition:Message-Id:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; From: Standing Bear To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: "Energy Amplifier" subcritical reactor Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 23:58:40 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200602132358.40143.rockcast@earthlink.net> X-ELNK-Trace: 161777525297e62b1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79315916869e9e5c159596c555b274334f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 71.115.188.143 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k1E4llvu016369 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66430 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Friday 10 February 2006 03:22, Harry Veeder wrote: > The author of the article cited below mislead me. > After checking his sources, it seems India is not building a reactor based > on the concept energy amplification. They are building a prototype > commercial fast breeder reactor and the only thing it has in common with > Carlo Rubbia's proposal is that they both use thorium. > > Harry > > > Carlo Rubbia originated the idea of the energy amplifier. > > http://www.scifi.com/sfw/issue411/labnotes.html > > The paragraph below came from the link above. > > > > Harry > > > > > > "At the Bhaba Atomic Research Center near Kalpakkam, nuclear eggheads > > like Anil Kakodkar have been noodling with thorium since 1995, and are > > currently building a pilot plant to work the bugs out of Carlo Rubbia's > > design. If all goes well, the reactor should begin producing continuous > > power by the end of the decade, and should pave the way for nine > > commercial workhorses due to come online between 2010 and 2020. If the > > scheme works‹and there's no scientific reason why it shouldn't‹it could > > well pave the way for a global migration to fission technology safe > > enough for urban areas and Third World dictatorships. So, far from > > ignoring the problem or playing the politics of half-measures, India is > > positioning itself for the realities of Kyoto and the decline of fossil > > fuels, and plans to be a leader in 21st century energy technology. I say, > > more power to 'em!" And the fast breeder is what we need to build. The Chinese and the Japanese are building this. We had it once and a traitorous president threw it away in a misguided fit of pique for having failed nuclear power school when he was in the Navy. We need to build it again, for it IS our salvation. Its fuel could supply a whole constellation of small reactors like Bridgeman in Michigan. Small plants that make no waves, have no accidents, make no publicity, just generate power forever and ever and ever......cheaply! Standing Bear From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 13 20:55:37 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1E4tDTv021202; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 20:55:13 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1E4t9Dv021165; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 20:55:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 20:55:09 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=dDFmBdIhUs9BN0r4/JWrwc5SpgsM92zLC6PaIjkYhA6CLaKdY3bYcatLg9HUBqrh; h=Received:From:To:Subject:Date:User-Agent:References:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Disposition:Message-Id:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; From: Standing Bear To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: Travel advice for NYC Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 00:05:59 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <8C7FEC767CD8617-A14-165E9@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> <008f01c630bf$cf1ed930$6401a8c0@NuDell> <43F0E39D.7030600@pobox.com> In-Reply-To: <43F0E39D.7030600@pobox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200602140005.59908.rockcast@earthlink.net> X-ELNK-Trace: 161777525297e62b1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7998144da2e77b80a419b998d4a2066857350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 71.115.188.143 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66431 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Monday 13 February 2006 14:53, Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: > Jones Beene wrote: > > Stephen, > > > >> There is an unbelievable amount of anti-semitic garbage on the web ... > > > > Yes this is true. And the "S" in Semitic should be capitalized. > > > > Let me state for the record, that I do not have an anti-Semitic bone in > > my body, am a big fan of almost everything in traditional Jewish culture > > and literature, and am perhaps the only vortexian to (partially) speak > > Yiddish. I do not like their Spy Agency messing in US internal events, > > however, and I detest the radical form of Zionism, and even Sharon - as > > do most of my Jewish-American friends. > > > > Please be aware of this salient fact: > > > > YOU CAN ACCUSE MOSSAD OF INVOLVEMENT IN WTC without being anti-Semitic. > > You can detest Mossad without being anti-Semitic. You can detest radical > > Zionism (including Sharon) without being anti-Semitic ! > > > > Any attempt to portray this investigation of Mossad and 9/11 as > > anti-Semitic is itself anti-American and DESPICABLE from anyone who > > considers himself to be an open-minded American partiot. > > OK, points taken... sorry. > > I spend too much time hanging around the relativity newsgroup, where > real anti-Semitism crops up all too often. And then I start seeing it > where it isn't. > > > And BTW our own State Department site is intentionally pandering > > **Disinformation** on this issue. One hopes it is not based on an > > ulterior motive to protect those in the administration who are friends > > of Mossad. > > > > They (State) do no address the issue of the *single* Israeli casualty > > (i.e citizen of Israel), nor the Odigo warning, but instead they > > intentionally try to confuse that issue (and make it appear as > > anti-Semitic - by callously throwing in the names of all the Jewish > > Americans who perished. This in itself is an act of anti-Semitism in > > that it assumes that if you have a Jewish wounding name, you are Jewish. > > They did not check the action religious preference of these people (as > > such would be a violation of law - for one thing). That is not only > > IRRELEVANT, as an implication (unless any of them were patrons of Odigo) > > but is somewhat disrespectful of their memory and is anti-Semitic in its > > assumptions. > > > > Shame on you! Department of State for this piece of intentional > > disinformation, disrespect for the families of the deceased, and veiled > > anti-Semitism! Lets get one thing straight here. Ethnologically and biologically, the Semite people are ALL the people of the fertile crescent and their descendants. That means not only Israeliis, but Arabs, Chaldeans, Medes, many Egyptians, Yemenis, Adenites, Djiboutians, and many, many others. To say anti-semitism only refers to a minority of these peoples like the people of the book is wrong. The Jewish people cannot claim ownership of all things Semitic. Jordanians get Kaposi's Sarcoma and other typical 'Semitic' diseases as well. Standing Bear From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 13 23:33:41 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1E7KjsA008694; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 23:20:51 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1E7KViY008440; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 23:20:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 23:20:31 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f In-Reply-To: <8C7FE21F2F7FE65-1604-BAB5@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C7FE21F2F7FE65-1604-BAB5@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <63CDE042-DDF2-4A39-AB8C-99FBE26C21B9@mtaonline.net> Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Earth's Precession - Chandler's Wobble Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 22:16:42 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66432 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: My prior postings on this have been edited and consolidated at: http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/EarthWobble.pdf including the remarks that follow. Looking again at: http://maia.usno.navy.mil/xplot1.gif We have a beat frequency |F1 - F2| of about 1/(7 years) and summed frequency of |F1 + F2| of about 1/(0.9 years). This gives frequencies: F1 - F2 = 0.1429 y^-1 F1 + F2 = 1.1111 y^-1 2F1 = 1.2539 y^-1 F1 = 0.6270 y^-1 F2 = 0.4841 Y^-1 and the precession periods: P1 = 1.585 y P2 = 2.066 y A hypothesis that might be checked out with further calculation is that these are precession periods of nearby black holes that affect the magnitude and direction of the ambient gravimagnetic field. The speculation still is the Earth local gravimagnetic induction is due to wild variations in Earth's ambient gravimagnetic field due to the mutual torquing of two black holes in close proximity. Their mutual orbital period is about 40 years, with wild variations in orbital parameters and precession when in close proximity caused by their powerful mutual gravimagnetic influences. An overall cycle of 191 years is due to departure of the black holes from close proximity and thus the powerful mutual gravimagnetic influences, which are a 1/ r^3 effect. It looks like the black holes may have a mutually caused precession rate of about 1.6 years and 2.1 years. It looks like things are heating up between them, and a really big merger event is not far off - within a millennium. Gravimagnetic induction affects the Earth's rotation rate by changing the amount of gravimagnetic flux through the earth. This is analogous to changing magnetic flux through a conducting ring. The induced current change in the ring is analogous to the change in mass current of the earth, and thus the angular velocity of the Earth. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Feb 14 07:17:03 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1EFGdcY016452; Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:16:39 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1EFGbqM016430; Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:16:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:16:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <43F1F44C.40909@pobox.com> Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 10:16:28 -0500 From: "Stephen A. Lawrence" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20060202 Fedora/1.7.12-1.5.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: Travel advice for NYC References: <8C7FEC767CD8617-A14-165E9@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> <008f01c630bf$cf1ed930$6401a8c0@NuDell> <43F0E39D.7030600@pobox.com> <200602140005.59908.rockcast@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <200602140005.59908.rockcast@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66433 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Standing Bear wrote: > > Lets get one thing straight here. Ethnologically and biologically, > the Semite people are ALL the people of the fertile crescent and > their descendants. That means not only Israeliis, but Arabs, > Chaldeans, Medes, many Egyptians, Yemenis, Adenites, Djiboutians, and > many, many others. To say anti-semitism only refers to a minority of > these peoples like the people of the book is wrong. The Jewish > people cannot claim ownership of all things Semitic. Jordanians get > Kaposi's Sarcoma and other typical 'Semitic' diseases as well. Well, if you want to be picky about it, most Jewish people on the east coast of the United States have more Russian and Slavic blood in their backgrounds than "Semitic" blood. Early in the diaspora the Jews made a significant number of converts in the Slavic countries (sorry I cannot provide details or references for this assertion). And of course what we call "Jewish" names are, for the most part, perfectly ordinary German names; the Germans segregated their namespace at some point which is why "Rosenbaum" sounds Jewish while "Schmidt" doesn't. The "myth" of a Jewish race is, for the most part, just that -- a myth, founded on the false assumption that the Jews have never made any converts. But none the less, bias against this group of people who are linked far more by religion and culture than by ties of blood is commonly referred to in English as "anti-Semitism" rather than "anti-Judaism". > > Standing Bear > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Feb 14 13:23:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1EKKE2j012058; Tue, 14 Feb 2006 12:22:10 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1EKJFuZ011319; Tue, 14 Feb 2006 12:19:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 12:19:15 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 14:16:00 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: Travel advice for NYC In-reply-to: <43F1F44C.40909@pobox.com> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66434 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Who qualifies as an American? Technically speaking I could call myself American, even though I live in Canada. Harry Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: > > > Standing Bear wrote: >> >> Lets get one thing straight here. Ethnologically and biologically, >> the Semite people are ALL the people of the fertile crescent and >> their descendants. That means not only Israeliis, but Arabs, >> Chaldeans, Medes, many Egyptians, Yemenis, Adenites, Djiboutians, and >> many, many others. To say anti-semitism only refers to a minority of >> these peoples like the people of the book is wrong. The Jewish >> people cannot claim ownership of all things Semitic. Jordanians get >> Kaposi's Sarcoma and other typical 'Semitic' diseases as well. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Feb 14 15:01:33 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1EN1CGI015623; Tue, 14 Feb 2006 15:01:17 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1EN1B8o015604; Tue, 14 Feb 2006 15:01:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 15:01:11 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <43F25327.5080701@pobox.com> Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 17:01:11 -0500 From: "Stephen A. Lawrence" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20060202 Fedora/1.7.12-1.5.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: Travel advice for NYC References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <6h2bfD.A.wzD.2Em8DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66435 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Harry Veeder wrote: > Who qualifies as an American? > > Technically speaking I could call myself American, even though I live in > Canada. Hey, the English language is hopelessly irregular, and that's not limited to its spelling :-) > > Harry > > > Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: > > >> >>Standing Bear wrote: >> >>>Lets get one thing straight here. Ethnologically and biologically, >>>the Semite people are ALL the people of the fertile crescent and >>>their descendants. That means not only Israeliis, but Arabs, >>>Chaldeans, Medes, many Egyptians, Yemenis, Adenites, Djiboutians, and >>>many, many others. To say anti-semitism only refers to a minority of >>>these peoples like the people of the book is wrong. The Jewish >>>people cannot claim ownership of all things Semitic. Jordanians get >>>Kaposi's Sarcoma and other typical 'Semitic' diseases as well. > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Feb 14 15:13:33 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1ENDGND023037; Tue, 14 Feb 2006 15:13:16 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1ENDFlP023022; Tue, 14 Feb 2006 15:13:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 15:13:15 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060214180936.03560a18@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 18:13:11 -0500 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: Travel advice for NYC In-Reply-To: References: <43F1F44C.40909@pobox.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66436 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Harry Veeder wrote: >Who qualifies as an American? > >Technically speaking I could call myself American, even though I live in >Canada. Nope. Sorry. You gotta cross the line or you're not 'Merican. I doubt those other Americans would even consent to call you a Gringo. (Don't feel bad -- my granddaddy came from Canada, and it didn't hurt him.) - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Feb 14 20:14:19 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1F4AaI3004553; Tue, 14 Feb 2006 20:10:37 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1F4AVYC004417; Tue, 14 Feb 2006 20:10:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 20:10:31 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bush and ethanol in Slate.com Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 15:10:16 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076AC7@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B076AC7@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu .clearchannel.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060202153937.0343ab18@mindspring.com> In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060202153937.0343ab18@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.1/32.783 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta04ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Wed, 15 Feb 2006 04:10:16 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k1F4AHsr004141 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66437 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Thu, 02 Feb 2006 16:01:28 -0500: Hi, [snip] >Extracting more biomass out of North American land is lunacy. We >should be putting it back, letting forests regrow and leaving more >fields fallow. The soil is really "mined" primarily through loss of trace elements. However these are primarily trace metals, which remain behind anyway when biomass is converted to fuel. All that is really needed is for these trace elements to be returned whence they came, once biofuel has been produced. If plants could talk that's what they would be screaming at us. Furthermore, since they are only required in trace quantities, it would be very cheap to do, yet the results would be absolutely astounding, resulting in bumper crops year after year. The trace elements should be added at virtually no extra cost to existing fertilizers, and applied concurrently. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Feb 14 21:16:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1F5GErJ010300; Tue, 14 Feb 2006 21:16:15 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1F5GCio010273; Tue, 14 Feb 2006 21:16:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 21:16:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC: Travel advice for NYC X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: ID = 8324edccdbae1c0007349b58b3c30403 Reply-To: michael.foster@excite.com From: "Michael Foster" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: michael.foster@excite.com X-Mailer: PHP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20060215051604.3B5ED4AFB6@xprdmxin.myway.com> Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 00:16:04 -0500 (EST) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66438 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Standing Bear wrote: > Lets get one thing straight here. Ethnologically > and biologically, the Semite people are ALL the > people of the fertile crescent and their descendants. > Thatmeans not only Israeliis, but Arabs, Chaldeans, > Medes, many Egyptians, Yemenis, Adenites, Djiboutians, > and many, many others. To say anti-semitism only > refers to a minority of these peoples like the people > of the book is wrong. The Jewish people cannot claim > ownership of all things Semitic. Jordanians get Kaposi's > Sarcoma and other typical 'Semitic' diseases as well. Yes, I find this loose use of language incredibly annoying as well. It's particularly ridiculous when someone refers to an Arab or a Persian as "anti-Semitic". What's even more absurd is that, ethnically speaking, most Jews are not Semites and most Semites are not Jews. But I suppose common usage has made correct. M. _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 15 05:22:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1FDK8P7008202; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 05:21:48 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1FD8aJL027907; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 05:08:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 05:08:36 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Oil Peak Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 21:38:47 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.1/32.783 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta02ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Wed, 15 Feb 2006 10:38:48 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k1FD8OXs027699 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66439 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, For those of you that haven't seen it yet, I just came across this:- http://www.princeton.edu/hubbert/current-events.html Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 15 08:48:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1FFhr26007560; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 07:43:53 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1FFhjip007451; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 07:43:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 07:43:45 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060215104126.03551310@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 10:43:29 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Cars last longer / hydraulic hybrid Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66441 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: There is some interesting stuff in this week's Wired automobile column: http://blog.wired.com/cars/ Vehicles are staying on the road in the U.S. for longer periods of time, according to a report from auto research company R. L. Polk & Co. . . . The median age of cars grew to 9 years in 2005, up from 7.9 years a decade ago. Topic: Hybrids . . . Ford is developing an F150 truck that stores energy captured from the braking system in hydraulic cylinders, according to NewTechSpy. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 15 08:50:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1FF0OMr025329; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 07:00:25 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1FF0MDT025291; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 07:00:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 07:00:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <000401c6323c$4d072be0$a9037841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: References: Subject: Re: Oil Peak Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 08:29:58 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2005-06-05) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.8 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66440 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Howdy Robin, In the history of civilization there has only been one generation like the past 60 years.It can be keyed to cheap and abundant forms of energy . That generation is over. Those that can adjust to and benefit from the end of big oil will survive the next human drama. Surprisingly, the most vulnerable is China and the middle east oil producers, not the USA. The USA has one advantage over the world.. the ability to radically adjust to changing times. It will be painful and frightening to the younger but only a repeat to the few remaining alive that experienced the 1930's Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin van Spaandonk" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 4:38 AM Subject: Oil Peak > Hi, > > For those of you that haven't seen it yet, I just came across > this:- > > http://www.princeton.edu/hubbert/current-events.html > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ > > Competition provides the motivation, > Cooperation provides the means. > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 15 09:27:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1FHREJu010017; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:27:15 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1FHRCtk009951; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:27:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:27:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <010201c63255$0d4b3780$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Subject: Off Topic: Texas Top Ten Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:27:09 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66442 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The birdshot is peppering the comedy circuit over Veep Cheney's shooting of a hunting companion in Texas. Hope you don't chomp down on any in your "game du jour". Here is my modified top 10 (with apologies to Letterman, Leno, Jon Stewart etc): 10) Good news, ladies and gentlemen, we have finally located weapons of mass destruction... 9) Dick Cheney accidentally shot a 78-year-old attorney. When people found out he shot a lawyer, Dick's popularity rose to 97 percent." 8) ...before the trip Donald Rumsfeld had denied the guy's request for body armor. 7) After he shot the guy, Dick smirked, "Anyone else want to call domestic wire-tapping illegal?' 6) Unfortunately Osama was unavailable to go on this hunting trip. 5) Dick was just trying to provide his pals with his favorite dish - Quail Gitmo. It's quail bound and gagged on a bed of rice. 4) A White House spin doctor announced today that the Vice President's victim is having a speedy recovery and will only loose one eye, and despite a "minor" [sic] heart attack, is exceeding all his doctor's fondest expectations. You know what that means, of course? "He's still alive" 3) Cheney said allegations that the reporting delay was so that he could sober-up and not have to go through a blood alcohol test are ri-dick-ilous. "I was no more zonkered than Ted Kennedy was when he murdered that poor girl" quipped the Veep. 2) Cheney's spokesperson said: "Y'all can waste your time on it. It's a non-issue. We're moving straight ahead and are going to keep hammering on the pressing priorities of the American working people, like talking about how to make "health care more affordable". When Dick found what the co-pay on this is, and that he may have to foot it - he went ballistic. 1) Texas game wardens say that, in the spirit of class-equality, they had to issue the Veep the same citation that they would have to give-out to any other red-neck, err...citizen, despite his status. That would be "hunting lawyers out of season." Everyone down here knows the season runs from March to December and not a day sooner... From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 15 09:38:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1FHbubH025663; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:37:57 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1FHbtQF025651; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:37:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:37:55 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: Off Topic: Texas Top Ten Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 12:45:53 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <010201c63255$0d4b3780$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66443 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones, I'm appalled that you would make light of this tragic event! I for one, stand behind our Vice President... ...cause it's a hella lot safer than standing in front of him. K. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 15 09:50:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1FHcH3P025937; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:38:19 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1FHcCZi025844; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:38:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:38:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060215120427.034d26d8@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 12:14:33 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Oil Peak In-Reply-To: <000401c6323c$4d072be0$a9037841@xptower> References: <000401c6323c$4d072be0$a9037841@xptower> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66444 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: RC Macaulay wrote: >The USA has one advantage over the world.. the ability to radically >adjust to changing times. This quality is not unique to the U.S. People in Japan adjusted radically after WWII. The change was far greater than anything experienced by Americans, except possibly during the Civil War. The Russians adjusted three times in the 20th century, to communism, WWII, and to the fall of communism. I think people everywhere can adjust quickly, if they have a mind to do so. Some do not, which is why some civilizations destroy themselves, as described in the book "Collapse." Most people, when faced with a crisis, respond and overcome the problem. If that were not the case our species would not have survived. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 15 10:30:56 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1FIUDm7018546; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 10:30:31 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1FIMuwI012328; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 10:22:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 10:22:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00fd01c63254$735d64e0$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060215104126.03551310@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Cars last longer / hydraulic hybrid Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:22:51 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66445 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jed Rothwell" Also this month's 'Popular Mechanics' has an excellent article on the advancing technology of hybrids. First decent article they have had in some time: http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/auto_technology/2154662.html > There is some interesting stuff in this week's Wired automobile > column: > > http://blog.wired.com/cars/ From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 15 10:50:09 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1FISOIF015655; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 10:28:25 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1FISBFU015393; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 10:28:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 10:28:11 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <585B134B-038F-4FDA-A735-FC570B21514B@mtaonline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Horace Heffner Subject: Carbon use Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 01:24:34 -0900 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66446 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: From: http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/story/0,,1659469,00.html - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - In 2003, the biologist Jeffrey Dukes calculated that the fossil fuels we burn in one year were made from organic matter "containing 44 x 10^18 grams of carbon, which is more than 400 times the net primary productivity of the planet's current biota". In plain English, this means that every year we use four centuries' worth of plants and animals. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Does this data look right? Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 15 11:06:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1FJ6Ars030011; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 11:06:10 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1FJ5jSG029580; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 11:05:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 11:05:45 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <000601c63262$cccf2870$a9037841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: References: <000401c6323c$4d072be0$a9037841@xptower> <7.0.1.0.2.20060215120427.034d26d8@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Oil Peak Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 13:05:34 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2005-06-05) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.8 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66448 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Howdy Jed, Perhaps the analogy could describe New Orleans. Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jed Rothwell" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:14 AM Subject: Re: Oil Peak > RC Macaulay wrote: > >>The USA has one advantage over the world.. the ability to radically >>adjust to changing times. > > This quality is not unique to the U.S. People in Japan adjusted > radically after WWII. The change was far greater than anything > experienced by Americans, except possibly during the Civil War. The > Russians adjusted three times in the 20th century, to communism, > WWII, and to the fall of communism. > > I think people everywhere can adjust quickly, if they have a mind to > do so. Some do not, which is why some civilizations destroy > themselves, as described in the book "Collapse." Most people, when > faced with a crisis, respond and overcome the problem. If that were > not the case our species would not have survived. > > - Jed > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 15 11:08:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1FJ84aR032485; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 11:08:05 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1FJ81bc032425; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 11:08:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 11:08:01 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Horace Heffner Subject: Carbon use Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 10:04:36 -0900 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66449 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This was sent 9 hours ago and did not show up, so I'll try it again. From: http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/story/0,,1659469,00.html - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - In 2003, the biologist Jeffrey Dukes calculated that the fossil fuels we burn in one year were made from organic matter "containing 44 x 10^18 grams of carbon, which is more than 400 times the net primary productivity of the planet's current biota". In plain English, this means that every year we use four centuries' worth of plants and animals. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Does this data look right? Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 15 11:10:37 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1FJA5Rl003253; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 11:10:22 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1FJ3clp026060; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 11:03:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 11:03:38 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Horace Heffner Subject: Santilli Book Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 10:00:11 -0900 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k1FJ3WuQ025962 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66447 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Isodual Theory of Antimatter : with applications to Antigravity, Grand Unification and Cosmology (Fundamental Theories of Physics) by Ruggero Maria Santilli, $169.00 at amazon.com (Hardcover) Not yet released. Book Description Antimatter, already conjectured by A. Schuster in 1898, was actually predicted by P.A.M. Dirac in the late 19-twenties in the negative- energy solutions of the Dirac equation. Its existence was subsequently confirmed via the Wilson chamber and became an established part of theoretical physics. Dirac soon discovered that particles with negative energy do not behave in a physically conventional manner, and he therefore developed his "hole theory". This restricted the study of antimatter to the sole level of second quantization. As a result antimatter created a scientific imbalance, because matter was treated at all levels of study, while antimatter was treated only at the level of second quantization. In search of a new mathematics for the resolution of this imbalance the author conceived what we know today as Santilli’s isodual mathematics, which permitted the construction of isodual classical mechanics, isodual quantization and isodual quantum mechanics. The scope of this monograph is to show that our classical, quantum and cosmological knowledge of antimatter is at its beginning with much yet to be discovered, and that a commitment to antimatter by experimentalists will be invaluable to antimatter science. About the Author Professor Ruggero Maria Santilli received his degree of "Dottore in Fisica" from the University of Naples, Italy. In 1966, at the Graduate School in Physics of the University of Turin, he obtained the highest Italian degree, corresponding to the U.S. Ph.D. in Physics. He also held the chair of Professor of Nuclear Physics at the famous A. Avogadro Institute in Turin, Italy. In 1967 Santilli was invited by the University of Miami, Florida, to conduct research with NASA financial support. In 1968 he joined Boston University as Associate Professor of Physics, where he taught Physics and conducted research for the U.S. Air Force, the latter of which led to his assuming the U.S. Citizenship. In 1976 and 1977 Santilli was a visiting scholar at the Institute for Theoretical Physics of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. In 1978 Santilli joined Harvard University where he was co-principal investigator of research grants from the U.S. Department of Energy numbers ER-78- S-02-47420.A000 and AS02-78ER04742 In 1983 he assumed the position of President and Professor of Theoretical Physics of the newly formed Institute for Basic Research, then ocated on Harvard Grounds, as well as Principal Investigator of several DOE contracts. From 1998 to 2001 Santili occupied the post of Doctor of research of corporations in the U.S.A., Europe and Asia. Recently he retired while remaining affiliated with various academic and corporate research institutions in the U.S.A., Ukraine, Russia, China, Italy, and Austria. Santilli is the founder and Editor-in-Chief of three journals: Hadronic Journal, Hadronic Journal Supplement and Algebras, Groups and Geometries. He is also Editor to several journals in Physics and Mathematics, and a reviewer/advisor to many other journals. Hardcover: 340 pages Publisher: Springer; 1 edition (March 1, 2006) Language: English ISBN: 1402045174 From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 15 11:50:02 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1FJnZ5x015536; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 11:49:36 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1FJnMoB015414; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 11:49:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 11:49:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060215140921.0354aaa0@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 14:49:10 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Carbon use In-Reply-To: <585B134B-038F-4FDA-A735-FC570B21514B@mtaonline.net> References: <585B134B-038F-4FDA-A735-FC570B21514B@mtaonline.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66450 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: >In 2003, the biologist Jeffrey Dukes calculated that the fossil fuels >we burn in one year were made from organic matter "containing 44 x >10^18 grams of carbon, which is more than 400 times the net primary >productivity of the planet's current biota". In plain English, this >means that every year we use four centuries' worth of plants and >animals. > >- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > >Does this data look right? No, but maybe I am missing something or he does not mean what I think he means. Pimentel and others have shown that within the US we use roughly twice as much fossil fuel energy as the annual growth of all plants on US soil. (And about five times more than all crops and forests.) Our per capita energy consumption is the highest in the world; around four times higher than average. On the other hand, our population density is moderate, so other countries probably use somewhere between 1 and 2 times their annual plant growth. I am sure the multiple is not 400. Perhaps Dukes means that it took 400 years of ancient forest growth to produce the coal and oil we consume in one year. In other words, 1 part in 200 of ancient forest was preserved in the form of coal, oil and peat. This seems excessively high. I do not recall numbers but I have a feeling it is more like 1 part per 1000, or lower. Anyway, there is no question that if we ran our automobiles exclusively on biomass we would all starve to death. In practical terms, given the efficiency of today's automobiles, we could not supply more than 2 or 3% of automobile fuel with today's crops, even if the most optimistic scenarios for future bioconversion pan out. Even if we capture every joule of biomass energy, there is nowhere near enough to make a significant contribution. Woolsey and others have suggested that biomass would be enough if we use lightweight plug-in hybrids. This is true, but so would other unconventional sources of energy such as hydrogen based liquid synthetic fuel from wind or nuclear power. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 15 11:53:00 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1FJqaum018170; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 11:52:36 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1FJqXq6018124; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 11:52:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 11:52:33 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 14:52:24 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C8008079A09C2C-265C-4FDA@mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Off Topic: Texas Top Ten Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.138 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <9_rpcB.A.BbE.Ba48DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66451 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Keith Nagel Jones, I'm appalled that you would make light of this tragic event! I for one, stand behind our Vice President... ...cause it's a hella lot safer than standing in front of him. <><><><><><><> Don't think that will help: http://dickcheneyquailhunt.cf.huffingtonpost.com/ Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 15 17:01:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1G10eDf031498; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 17:00:40 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1G10coE031480; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 17:00:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 17:00:38 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <95C54FEA-CE54-40F9-B1C7-BFC77AD215EB@mtaonline.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Oil Peak Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 14:13:43 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66452 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Feb 15, 2006, at 1:38 AM, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > Hi, > > For those of you that haven't seen it yet, I just came across > this:- > > http://www.princeton.edu/hubbert/current-events.html Thanks for posting. Deffeyes writes: "An algebraic result from the Hubbert theory says that the production rate peaks when half of the oil has been produced." This means he's off. Field production declines faster than the ramp up. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 15 18:29:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1G2T9Nn031820; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 18:29:09 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1G2T8k0031786; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 18:29:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 18:29:08 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 21:23:58 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C800B72D2AE976-2318-5A57@mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Phonophusion Knews Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.131 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66453 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.physorg.com/news10806.html ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 15 23:39:21 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1G7cquV031268; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 23:38:53 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1G7cnO7031204; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 23:38:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 23:38:49 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060215104126.03551310@mindspring.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060215104126.03551310@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Cars last longer / DOE 2007 versus 2006 Numbers Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 22:35:23 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66454 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Feb 15, 2006, at 6:43 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > There is some interesting stuff in this week's Wired automobile > column: > > http://blog.wired.com/cars/ [snip] New posting there shows: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - DOE 2007 versus 2006 Overall DOE (Crosses all departments) Nuclear Energy $559 million up 34% Efficiency/Renewables $933 million, up 4% Fossil Energy $465 million down 21% Labs National Petroleum Technology Office $260 million (first time funding) National Energy Technology Lab $452 million, down 22 percent National Renewable Energy Lab $162 million, down 6 percent - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I wonder what the "National Petroleum Technology Office" is all about? Ethanol blending? Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 16 01:25:14 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1G9OhGg015765; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 01:24:43 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1G9OePw015710; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 01:24:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 01:24:40 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <43F4449B.8020706@usfamily.net> Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 03:23:39 -0600 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Chukanov says goodbye Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <1W9BZ.A.P1D.YTE9DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66455 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.chukanovenergy.hit.bg/ He says that he's off to somewhere to develop his technology --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 16 05:24:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1GDONTO012369; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 05:24:24 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1GDOL6D012296; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 05:24:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 05:24:21 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060216132412921.E0DD76400085@mwinf3109.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060216132416.009db704@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 13:24:16 +0000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Off Topic: Texas Top Ten Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66456 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:52 pm 15/02/2006 -0500, you wrote: > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Keith Nagel > >Jones, I'm appalled that you would make light of this tragic event! >I for one, stand behind our Vice President... >...cause it's a hella lot safer than standing in front of him. > ><><><><><><><> > >Don't think that will help: > >http://dickcheneyquailhunt.cf.huffingtonpost.com/ > >Terry Very droll....8-) From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 16 05:57:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1GDvQSY021026; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 05:57:27 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1GDvMHo020971; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 05:57:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 05:57:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <001301c63300$e173ff50$ec027841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: Cool Fusion Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 07:57:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C632CE.96626380"; type="multipart/alternative" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2005-06-05) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_60_70,HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Resent-Message-ID: <2TcwnC.A.bHF.BTI9DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66458 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C632CE.96626380 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C632CE.96626380" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C632CE.96626380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankHowdy Vorts, With the "table Top" cold fusion announcement circling the globe at = warp speed we are now cool , or is it Kewl. A combination of events is likely. The most predictible is every = University will rush to duplicate and make advances followed by a swarm = of IPO's. A more subtle event likely to emerge is a demand for " instant" action. = Congress loves stuff like this.=20 The concern is that big oil will " muscle in" and take over. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C632CE.96626380 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Howdy Vorts,
 
With the "table Top" cold fusion announcement  circling the = globe at=20 warp speed  we are now cool , or is it Kewl.
 
A combination of events is likely. The most predictible is every = University=20 will rush to duplicate and make advances followed by a swarm of = IPO's.
 
A more subtle event likely  to emerge is a demand for " = instant"=20 action. Congress loves stuff like this.
 
The concern is that big oil will " muscle in" and take over.
 
Richard

 

------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C632CE.96626380-- ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C632CE.96626380 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000e01c63300$e0f9c640$ec027841@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C632CE.96626380-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 16 06:01:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1GDPHPg013618; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 05:25:18 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1GDPDak013546; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 05:25:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 05:25:13 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <29642998.1140096309918.JavaMail.root@mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 08:25:09 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Jed Rothwell Reply-To: Jed Rothwell To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Oil Peak Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66457 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner writes: >Deffeyes writes: "An algebraic result from the Hubbert theory says >that the production rate peaks when half of the oil has been >produced." This means he's off. Field production declines faster >than the ramp up. That's true for individual wells, but other factors usually cause the long-term, industry-wide decline to mimic the rise. Two examples of these factors: 1. The technology improves, old wells are reopened and more is extracted from present wells. 2. The price rises, demand falls, and consumption spreads out over a longer period than it would if the only constraint were the extraction technology. Deffeyes illustrates these trends with examples such as coal extraction in Pennsylvania, which had a bell-shaped curve. Of course the curve is not exactly smooth. The coal curve, for example, shows an anomalous upturn during WWII. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 16 06:25:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1GEGe8B015673; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 06:16:42 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1GEGcaT015612; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 06:16:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 06:16:38 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <99886622-3CE8-4762-8254-3361C5C990CF@mtaonline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Horace Heffner Subject: Entropy Compensation for Random Pads Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 05:16:30 -0900 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66459 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Some may remember this being discussed on vortex in April 2000. An edited version and update has been posted to http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/RandPad.pdf Entropy Compensation for Random Pads Bit wise random number generation is useful for one time pad cryptographic use, gaming, Monte Carlo simulations, or possibly for sensing the world psyche in projects like that at . In looking at the claims for US Patent 5,830,064, the Mindsong Inc patent for devices related to the methods used in the projects described at , it appears a systematic error arises. To create a random string of bits, a pad, tandem amplifier stages can be used to amplify thermal noise, and a trigger used to sample the state of the output at a fixed rate much slower than the noise central frequency, or to count the state changes across a specific voltage threshold, say zero volts, over a fixed period. In any similar method, the output state does not have a 50-50 chance of being a 1, due to trigger or flip-flop hysteresis that can never be fully compensated, because it varies with ambient conditions. A complicated statistically self-correcting biasing mechanism can be used to adjust the hystereses so that the time average probability of a 1 vs 0 is maintained at 50 percent, or an arbitrarily close approximation thereof. One method to correct for hysteresis is to invert the interpreted state of a flip-flop containing the output sample value, every other clock cycle. This can be done electronically, using an additional flip-flop and xor. It has the property of cutting the sampling rate in half, however. The state sequence of the xor value without correction is 10101010..., the state sequence after correction is 001100110011.... The state flip only occurs at half the clock rate, but the time interval is fully corrected, in reasonably steady-state operation, because each short interval of the state correcting flip- flop is paired with a long interval. Mindsong uses similar techniques and also employs the technique of xoring masks with the random bit stream to attempt to further randomize it, notably the 010101... pattern. There clearly would be no use for such a pattern if the circuit used was not sensitive to hysteresis. The interesting fact is that NO AMOUNT OF BIT XORING WITH A FIXED PATTERN WILL CORRECT THE NON-RANDOMNESS FROM HYSTERESIS. Suppose for a moment that the timer flip-flop hysteresis is very bad, so that it is in a 1 state 3/4 of the time and a 0 state 1/4 of the time. This gives the following probability table for successive bit pairs: bits P1 P2 P1*P2 00 1/4 1/4 1/16 01 1/4 3/4 3/16 10 3/4 1/4 3/16 11 3/4 3/4 9/16 You can see that xoring the bit pairs with any chosen mask can never make the probabilities all exactly 1/4, which is necessary to achieve a truly random sequence. The probabilities remain the same, but get shifted around to other bit sequences. The uniform randomness can never be achieved. Any scientific study or application requiring uniformly random bit sequences is invalidated or corrupted to the degree exposed to circuit hysteresis problems, and that exposure is a function of temperature and possibly other ambient conditions. So, how to correct the problem? One cheap solution is to sum (drive the clock with) randomly varying intervals instead of uniform intervals, which gives a random walk nature to the measured time of a random length event. In other words, both the clock timer and the measured interval must be random and independent. In the case where the time interval between radioactive disintegration events is used, the timer flip-flop state needs to be driven by a nonuniform clock, say by filtered noise from a high gain amplifier. The mean frequency used to drive the flip-flop clock needs to be at least 12 times higher than the random interval measured, and the switching speed of the timer flip-flop preferably a couple orders of magnitude faster at switching state than that. Two independent high gain amplifiers with high and low band pass filters can be used to achieve the two independent interval clocks. Two identical random interval clocks could be used, and the timed event duration clock would then consist of a 4 stage (or more) counter so as to lengthen the timed interval by a factor of at least 16. Unfortunately, if you are statistically testing for the non- randomness of such a device to measure psychic output, your success rate over chance will likely be diminished by employing the suggested improved method. UPDATE - FEBRUARY 16, 2006 An arbitrarily close approximation to an hysteresis free circuit (a circuit producing bits with information entropy approaching 1) can be obtained by XORing the outputs from multiple independent circuits having hysteresis. The XORing can be achieved using simple clocked digital logic. Suppose a circuit is being used that is very fast, but exhibits a hysteresis of about 1 percent. That is to say the probability of a 1 is 0.495 percent, and the probability of a 0 is 0.505 percent. By XORing the output of the two independent circuits, the probability of a 0 drops to 0.495^2 + 0.505^2 = .5005. By XORing the output of four independent circuits, the probability of a 0 drops to 0.4995^2 + 0.5005^2 = .5000005. By XORing the output of eight independent circuits, the probability of a 0 drops to 0.4999995^2 + 0.5000005^2 = .5000000000005. The hysteresis is removed to less than 1 part in 10^12. Using this method random pads can be generated at GHz rates. The initial bit production is by clocked sampling of a fast freewheeling oscillator modulated by output from an ultrahigh gain op amp with input from a thermally sensitive source, like an LED. The initial drivers consist of 8 bit producers feeding 4 XOR gates. Three additional XOR gates connected in cascade fashion to produce a single bit stream output with hysteresis reduced to less than one part in 10^12. This method can be extended to any desired degree of hysteresis removal at a logarithmic cost. It can readily be implemented on a small chip that also buffers the bit stream for delivery to a bus in parallel. This method has the advantage over the Von Neumann whitening method (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_time_pad and http:// www.cryptography.com/resources/whitepapers/VIA_rng.pdf) in that no data is rejected, thus the pad bit stream can be produced at a fixed and maximum speed with entropy performance that is also vastly superior to the Von Neumann whitening method. It also has the advantage that it compensates for differences in entropy between each of the input circuits, and changes in such differences with changing conditions, like temperature. It is also noteworthy that a similarly improved entropy performance can be obtained, although with a reduction in bit rate, using any true random pad generator, by merely generating N pads and XORing them together. The exponential power of this method of entropy improvement is especially seen when N is 8 or greater. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 16 08:00:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1GG0LAB020089; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 08:00:31 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1GFeoRO003074; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 07:40:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 07:40:50 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <003901c6330f$5b541180$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Subject: Hydrogen Vehicle for Japan Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 07:40:46 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66460 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mazda Takes Hydrogen Vehicles to Market The high efficiency and near-zero-emissions vehicle runs on either hydrogen gas or gasoline, with just a flip of the switch - giving it freedom to travel far from hydrogen fueling stations (even if they were available). Mazda announced today that it has received permission to begin leasing the RX-8 Hydrogen RE to corporate customers, who presumably in Japan will make their own hydrogen - as it is already cheaper there anyway, due to the high price of gasoline. Here is a nice animation of the engine. When hydrogen is used, it is injected directly into the most open part of the intake manifold, preventing preignition and allowing an extremely "lean" burn. http://www.keveney.com/Wankel.html This Wankel engine is uniquely appropriate for hydrogen. The efficiency has even surprised Mazda. Here is the recent story: http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/feb2006/bw20060215_222935.htm This is an interesting step towards H2 as Detroit seems to be hedging its bets on the (probably) dead-end technology of fuel cells (FC). I say "dead-end" for these technical reasons, which could change with a major breakthrough: 1) no one has yet been able to eliminate platinum/palladium from the FC membrane 2) the supply of platinum is maxed-out for use catalytic converters and other things, and the cost would skyrocket if more demand arises 3) fuel cells are only more efficient than ICEs at low current draw. At maximum current draw on the freeway, efficiency drops off precipitously and there is evidence that ICEs is more efficient there 4) There is a 20-to-1 cost advantage for the ICE of equal power today, and this cannot improve until precious metals can be eliminated from fuel cells. 5) Whereas an ICE can get easily have a 100,000 to 200,000 mile lifetime before overhaul, FCs are expected to have a life of only 50,000 miles and then require total replacement, which will be very expensive. All in all - and especially considering the extremely low weight of the Mazda engine - it looks like an ideal powerplant for a hybrid design as well. Ford owns part of Mazda, but Mazda has thus far refused to cross license this breakthrough to Ford - which of course wants special treatment. The Germans may rue the day that they did not step in to keep this technology viable for their own auto industry - and this is doubly ironic that DW television itself uses the unique rounded triangular rotor as one of its corporate Icons. James Burke, my favorite history-of-technology pundit will have a field-day with these strange inter-Connections some day if he keeps on plugging that long. Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 16 09:40:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1GHeB6Y017201; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 09:40:40 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1GHPxnf006805; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 09:25:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 09:25:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060216122300.034c4b88@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:25:48 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Compressed air vehicles, strange bicycles Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <7a0xkC.A.DqB.lWL9DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66461 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: See: http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/TRANSPORT/comprair/comprair.htm At the same site, here are some wonderful pictures of strange bicycles: http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/TRANSPORT/oddbike/oddbike.htm The web page must be British, as revealed by comments like this: "Left: The Eric Staller Conference Bicycle: 2005. This inspired creation is pedalled by seven people sitting in a circle. Steering is not however, by committee- an opportunity lost there, I feel. The chap on the extreme right is holding the steering wheel. The front of the vehicle is at the left. OK, it's not strictly a bicycle- in fact it's a quadcycle, though the two back wheels are so close together you could, if you wanted to be difficult, argue that it was more of a tricycle than anything else. But there isn't an unusual quadcycle page (for which this machine would certainly qualify) just a conventional quadcycle page, so here it is." - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 16 10:29:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1GITH4X005685; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 10:29:18 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1GITCKR005594; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 10:29:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 10:29:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060216132342.03484fe8@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 13:29:06 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Entropy Compensation for Random Pads In-Reply-To: <99886622-3CE8-4762-8254-3361C5C990CF@mtaonline.net> References: <99886622-3CE8-4762-8254-3361C5C990CF@mtaonline.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66462 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner and improved method of using a thermal amplifier to produce a random sequence of numbers. Amplifies have been used for this purpose for a long time I believe. I saw a reference to one in the 1950s. Anyway, Heffner wrote: >In other words, both the clock timer and the measured interval must >be random and independent. In the case where the time interval >between radioactive disintegration events is used, the timer >flip-flop state needs to be driven by a nonuniform clock, >say by filtered noise from a high gain amplifier. If you have a method of detecting radioactive disintegration, why would you use the thermal amplifier technique in the first place? Also, wouldn't the radioactive technique be perfectly random? I suppose that nowadays with cheap americium smoke detectors available, it would not be difficult or dangerous to make a radioactive disintegration random number generator. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 16 12:32:12 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1GKUERB019987; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:31:57 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1GK0pWu020598; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:00:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:00:51 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: ThomasClark123@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 14:50:33 EST Subject: Re: Using atomic hydrogen and helium gas to make free energy To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1140119433" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66463 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1140119433 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/9/2006 2:37:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, ThomasClark123@aol.com writes: I have shown that the input energy of 103 cal./gram molecule is somehow either magnified to 109,00 cal/gram molecule of hydrogen as a medium, that the 103 calories is seed energy called the activation energy, triggering the atomic hydrogen's apprehension of a net 108,897 cal./gram molecule, from the "ether". An equally phenomenal atomic helium process reported in Space Aliens is 4.6 times this output. Quoted from Occult Ether Physics Teslas Hidden Space Propulsion System and the Conspiracy to Conceal It By William Lyne, Pg. 90,91,96" "BTU/lb for combustion of gasoline, molecular hydrogen, and atomic hydrogen: Gasoline combustion (n-Heptane) 19,314 BTU/lb Hydrogen combustion (H sub 2+ 0) 52,200 BTU/lb Atomic Hydrogen (H2<>2H) 196,200 BTU/lb If a pound of gasoline could propel a car 30 miles, the consumption would be 666.6 BTU/mile. On the same scale a pound of atomic hydrogen would yield 315 miles. (Paraphrase) The atomic hydrogen can be re-used over and over since the Atomic Hydrogen process does not involve the consumption of hydrogen." Quoted from Occult Ether Physics Teslas Hidden Space Propulsion System and the Conspiracy to Conceal It By William Lyne, Pg. 92" "According to Van Norstrands Scientific Encyclopedia, 5th ed. Van Nostrand Reinhold Co. (1976) simple electron bombardment of helium radioactive isotope of extremely short half-life, in this state, the helium atom unpairs its electrons, promotes one electron to the 2s state in which it remains for a very short time and afterwards releases 460,000 cal/gram atom per gram of helium on collapse of the excited atom back to its ground state. The heat is in the form of photons. This is similar to the process of atomic hydrogen. Apparently as the hydrogen passes through the arc, the electric and magnetic fields, plus heat, provide the activation energy triggering the molecules apprehension of an additional 108,897 calo/gram molecule of endothermic dissociation energy. On recombination the atoms shrink in volume as the excess gathered encompassing a greater volume of Omni Matter (ether). On recombination the atoms shrink in volume as the excess gathered energy is squeezed out of the ether as free (heat) energy. The endothermic dissociation absorbs only 103/cal gram energy, yet on recombination the atoms exothermically yield a net 108,897 cal/gram molecule. .... At the comparable 30 mpg for n-heptane, helium could produce 42.86 times as much or about 1285.8 miles per pound. Pg 97.Quoted from Occult Ether Physics Teslas Hidden Space Propulsion System and the Conspiracy to Conceal It By William Lyne, Pg. 92"" If the above statements prove to be true, then palladium is not needed in the cold fusion process, and cold fusion may be replaced by a simple atomic hydrogen torch, which existed in the 1930's as a standard torch product, but was hidden and taken from us by oil well politics and governmental propaganda distorting or hiding the truths of science. The relativistic theories promoted by oil well politics hides the facts of free energy science and structure of the universe from us. I read in another book that stated that some E.T.'s who came to Earth, showed us how they simply separate a hydrogen atom to create atomic hydrogen, and then allow the hydrogen atoms to recombine to create free energy. There are other sources which verify the above claims. -------------------------------1140119433 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 2/9/2006 2:37:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, ThomasCla= rk123@aol.com writes:
I have shown that the input energy of= 103 cal./gram molecule is somehow either magnified to 109,00 cal/gram molec= ule of hydrogen as a medium, that the 103 calories is seed energy called the= activation energy, triggering the atomic hydrogen's apprehension of a net 1= 08,897 cal./gram molecule, from the "ether". An equally phenomenal atomic he= lium process reported in Space Aliens is 4.6 times this output.  Quoted from Occult Ether Physics Teslas= Hidden Space Propulsion System and the Conspiracy to Conceal It  By Wi= lliam Lyne, Pg. 90,91,96"

"BTU/lb for combustion of gasoline, molecular hydrogen, and atomic=20= hydrogen:
 
Gasoline combustion (n-Heptane)    19,314 BTU/lb
Hydrogen=20= combustion (H sub 2+ 0)  52,200 BTU/lb
Atomic Hydrogen (H2<>2H= )            196= ,200 BTU/lb
 

If a pound of gasoline could propel a car 30 miles, the consumption= would be 666.6 BTU/mile.  On the same scale a pound of atomic hydrogen= would yield 315 miles. (Paraphrase) The atomic hydrogen can be re-used over= and over since the Atomic Hydrogen process does not involve the consumption= of hydrogen."   Quoted from Occult Ether Physics Teslas H= idden Space Propulsion System and the Conspiracy to Conceal It  By Will= iam Lyne, Pg. 92"
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, = 2006 11:48=20 AM
Subject: nuclear coming back =

Job Title: SENIOR=20 NUCLEAR CORE DESIGN ENGINEER
Occupational Category: Architecture = &=20 Engineering
Job Order #: = WEB610044=20      Posting = Date:=20 01/11/2006
Location: = Monroeville, PA=20 15146
Salary: $77,397.00 / = year=20
Type Of Work: Full-time =
Shift: Day
Job=20 Summary: Responsible for the design, development and = analysis of=20 nuclear reactor cores. Specific duties include: (1) designing, = developing,=20 testing and analyzing nuclear reactor cores utilizing advanced lattice = physics=20 and three-dimensional nodal simulator codes; (2) providing in-core = fuel=20 management support using loading pattern optimization tools; (3) = undertaking=20 nuclear reactor safety analysis; and (4) providing licensing support = for=20 nuclear reactors. Master's degree in Nuclear Engineering or Physics = plus 5=20 years of experience in the position offered or as a Researcher, = Physicist or=20 Nuclear Engineer is required. Additional requirements include = experience with=20 the design/development of nuclear reactor codes related to pressurized = water=20 reactors, including ANC and ROCS, as well as experience with the=20 design/development of advanced nuclear fuels. 40 hrs/wk, 8 = a.m.=E2=80=935 p.m.,=20 $77,397/yr.
Education Level: = Masters=20
Number of Hours: 40 per Week =
Job Order Category: Permanent=20

------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C63709.45BE2380-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Feb 21 15:36:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1LNaOIj027713; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 15:36:24 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1LNaM7X027690; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 15:36:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 15:36:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 18:36:19 -0500 Message-Id: <8C80556BFEA6587-1290-D7C8@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <24903549.1140561967902.JavaMail.root@fepweb04> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <24903549.1140561967902.JavaMail.root@fepweb04> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Is this a spoof or are these words really from "my" president? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.69 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66517 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: OrionWorks It can be a fascinating hobby to interpret the meaning behind our Commander in Chief's latest comments. <><><><><><><> Or just maybe he finds himself between Iraq and a hard place. Iran is building nukes and *will* nuke Israel and reachable Europe. They just signed a new agreement with China on oil. And W just realized that if he attacks Iran, gas will hit $20 per gallon almost overnight. "Just realized" because they laid off two dozen researchers at the NREL a month ago and rehired them two days before the POTUS visited the lab. http://cbs4denver.com/topstories/local_story_050205319.html It's time to brush off some of those 4,000 patents that the DOD/DOE is sequestering and tell the Cartel to go f--- themselves. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Feb 21 15:58:20 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1LNw9LO003950; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 15:58:09 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1LNw87A003941; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 15:58:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 15:58:08 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: ThomasClark123@aol.com Message-ID: <20a.12e36c99.312d030a@aol.com> Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 18:58:02 EST Subject: Cold Fusion, The New Rome, and The Saint To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1140566282" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66518 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1140566282 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cold Fusion, The New Rome, and The Saint The movie the Saint starring Val Kilmer, shows the attempt of the Third World South America Drug Lords working with a Russian General who is a look alike of President Eisenhower, attempting to establish a New Rome in Russia, which fails due to the Saint encouraging cold fusion in Russia. Could this movie be predicting the future and the establishment of new alternative energies such as cold fusion or hydrogen power? -------------------------------1140566282 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Cold Fusion, The New Rome, and The Saint
 
The movie the Saint starring Val Kilmer, shows the attempt of the Third= World South America Drug Lords working with a Russian General who is a=  look alike of President Eisenhower, attempting to establish a&nbs= p;New Rome in Russia, which fails due to the Saint encouraging cold fusion i= n Russia.   Could this movie be predicting the future and the esta= blishment of new alternative energies such as cold fusion or hydrogen power?=
-------------------------------1140566282-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Feb 21 16:30:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1M0Ua1P032330; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 16:30:36 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1M0UYvZ032314; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 16:30:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 16:30:34 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060221163208.02a13aa8@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 16:33:06 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: Re: Is this a spoof or are these words really from "my" president? In-Reply-To: <8C80556BFEA6587-1290-D7C8@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> References: <24903549.1140561967902.JavaMail.root@fepweb04> <8C80556BFEA6587-1290-D7C8@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66519 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > >Or just maybe he finds himself between Iraq and a hard place. Iran is >building nukes and *will* nuke Israel and reachable Europe. They just >signed a new agreement with China on oil. And W just realized that if he >attacks Iran, gas will hit $20 per gallon almost overnight. "Just >realized" because they laid off two dozen researchers at the NREL a month >ago and rehired them two days before the POTUS visited the lab. > >http://cbs4denver.com/topstories/local_story_050205319.html "Beauprez said he didn't believe the restoration of the jobs and Bush's visit were linked." No, of course not. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Feb 21 19:12:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1M2w6nn018406; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 18:58:07 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1M2w1c3018342; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 18:58:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 18:58:01 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Is this a spoof or are these words really from "my" president? Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 13:57:53 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <24903549.1140561967902.JavaMail.root@fepweb04> <8C80556BFEA6587-1290-D7C8@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C80556BFEA6587-1290-D7C8@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta03sl.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Wed, 22 Feb 2006 02:57:53 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k1M2vsm1018275 Resent-Message-ID: <9S6p0.A.XeE.3M9-DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66520 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In reply to hohlrauml6d@netscape.net's message of Tue, 21 Feb 2006 18:36:19 -0500: Hi, [snip] Perhaps this provides a clue:- http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/energy/ Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Feb 21 19:22:20 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1M3DEfN027413; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 19:13:15 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1M3D9BU027346; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 19:13:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 19:13:09 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 22:12:56 -0500 Message-Id: <8C80575030F7B87-1D5C-EF1A@mblkn-m14.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <24903549.1140561967902.JavaMail.root@fepweb04> <8C80556BFEA6587-1290-D7C8@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Is this a spoof or are these words really from "my" president? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.132 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66521 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 13:57:53 +1100 Subject: Re: Is this a spoof or are these words really from "my" president? In reply to hohlrauml6d@netscape.net's message of Tue, 21 Feb 2006 18:36:19 -0500: Hi, [snip] Perhaps this provides a clue:- http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/energy/ Damn, Robin, you're inplying he *has* a clue. Could you please clarify your comment? Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Feb 21 19:33:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1M3X8Ue007619; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 19:33:09 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1M3X7QB007590; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 19:33:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 19:33:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Is this a spoof or are these words really from "my" president? Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 14:32:59 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <24903549.1140561967902.JavaMail.root@fepweb04> <8C80556BFEA6587-1290-D7C8@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> <8C80575030F7B87-1D5C-EF1A@mblkn-m14.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C80575030F7B87-1D5C-EF1A@mblkn-m14.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta05ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Wed, 22 Feb 2006 03:32:58 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k1M3X3ZD007560 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66522 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In reply to hohlrauml6d@netscape.net's message of Tue, 21 Feb 2006 22:12:56 -0500: Hi, [snip] >Perhaps this provides a clue:- > >http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/energy/ > > Damn, Robin, you're inplying he *has* a clue. > >Could you please clarify your comment? No, I was implying that Vortexians could get a clue as to what he meant by visiting the page (since it wasn't obvious from his comments). It seems he plans to spend the most money where it will do the least good (of course). However he does seem to have picked up on Jed's favorite: Plug in hybrids - and from the description it seems that whoever wrote the paragraph actually understands what it's all about. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Feb 21 20:36:34 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1M4aGEt018353; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:36:16 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1M4aEbU018335; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:36:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:36:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <003501c63769$7d5983b0$0100007f@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: Bush and new energy focus Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 22:35:24 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0031_01C63737.1B6FF990" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2005-06-05) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66523 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C63737.1B6FF990 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0032_01C63737.1B6FF990" ------=_NextPart_001_0032_01C63737.1B6FF990 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankHowdy vorts, Would someone care to explain to me the sudden interest taken by our = prez in " new energy" ? Is he trying to tell us something or trying to = sell us something ? The public allready knows the energy situation, surely the prez knows = the energy situation so it couldn't be he is trying to tell us something = , so could it be he is trying to " sell " us something? Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0032_01C63737.1B6FF990 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Howdy vorts,
 
Would someone care to explain to me the sudden interest taken by = our prez=20 in " new energy" ? Is he trying to tell us something or trying to sell = us=20 something ?
 
 
The public allready knows the energy situation, surely the prez = knows the=20 energy situation so it couldn't be he is trying to tell us something , = so could=20 it be he is trying to " sell " us something?
 
Richard
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

------=_NextPart_001_0032_01C63737.1B6FF990-- ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C63737.1B6FF990 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <003001c63769$6602c870$0100007f@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C63737.1B6FF990-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Feb 21 21:16:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1M5G0SC007808; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 21:16:00 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1M5FuFr007787; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 21:15:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 21:15:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060221211418.028ec0f0@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 21:17:29 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: Re: Bush and new energy focus In-Reply-To: <003501c63769$7d5983b0$0100007f@xptower> References: <003501c63769$7d5983b0$0100007f@xptower> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66524 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Richard, How 'bout, "Everybody remain calm. Don't worry, about the impending energy catastrophe, the government is here to help" ??? s At 08:35 PM 2/21/2006, you wrote: >Howdy vorts, > >Would someone care to explain to me the sudden interest taken by our prez >in " new energy" ? Is he trying to tell us something or trying to sell us >something ? > > >The public allready knows the energy situation, surely the prez knows the >energy situation so it couldn't be he is trying to tell us something , so >could it be he is trying to " sell " us something? > >Richard > > > > > > > > > > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Feb 21 22:28:31 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1M6SEUH013908; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 22:28:14 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1M6SBxO013878; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 22:28:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 22:28:11 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bush and new energy focus Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 17:28:03 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <003501c63769$7d5983b0$0100007f@xptower> In-Reply-To: <003501c63769$7d5983b0$0100007f@xptower> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta04sl.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Wed, 22 Feb 2006 06:28:02 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k1M6S3p9013790 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66525 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In reply to RC Macaulay's message of Tue, 21 Feb 2006 22:35:24 -0600: Hi, [snip] >BlankHowdy vorts, > >Would someone care to explain to me the sudden interest taken by our prez in " new energy" ? Is he trying to tell us something or trying to sell us something ? > > >The public allready knows the energy situation, surely the prez knows the energy situation so it couldn't be he is trying to tell us something , so could it be he is trying to " sell " us something? Maybe he's trying to win all the votes he stole. Isn't there a Congressional election coming up soon? Or perhaps he just found out himself what the real situation is. Or maybe it's just part of his platform, and the flavor of the month. It just happens that we notice it because it interests us. You have to admit, it's just the sort of thing the Greens want to hear. Until you look real close at where the money is going ("clean" coal). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 22 09:28:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1MHOWuN026890; Wed, 22 Feb 2006 09:24:33 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1MHOKob026725; Wed, 22 Feb 2006 09:24:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 09:24:20 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <413A85EF-2019-471E-8ABF-A0F3E8BFFCB9@mtaonline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Horace Heffner Subject: Gravimagnetic Plank Constant Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 07:02:40 -0900 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: <4uj4tC.A.chG.C5J_DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66526 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Plank's constant has a 2002 CODATA recommended value of h = 6.626 0693e-34 J s with an uncertainty of 0.000 0011e-34 J s. Under the gravimagnetic isomorphism established in http://mtaonline.net/~hheffner/GR-and- QM.pdf, the gravimagnetic Plank's constant h_g is given by: h_g = - h Since both constants have the same units, this provides to some degree a unifying relation between gravimagnetism and electromagnetism at the quantum level. Graviphotons carry the same energy and momenta as photons at a given wavelength. One aspect of this relation is that graviphoton inertial space drives are limited as are photon drives by the E/p = c relation that demands enormous amounts of energy to achieve momentum change, thrust. Achieving an effective inertial drive requires gaining a purchase on the polarizable vacuum. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 22 09:58:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1MHwSD8015891; Wed, 22 Feb 2006 09:58:29 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1MHwPaU015847; Wed, 22 Feb 2006 09:58:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 09:58:25 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Horace Heffner Subject: Gravimagnetic Plank Constant Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 08:58:17 -0900 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: <3pXjoB.A.e3D.AZK_DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66527 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Plank's constant has a 2002 CODATA recommended value of h = 6.626 0693e-34 J s with an uncertainty of 0.000 0011e-34 J s. Under the gravimagnetic isomorphism established in http://mtaonline.net/~hheffner/GR-and- QM.pdf, the gravimagnetic Plank's constant h_g is given by: h_g = - h Since both constants have the same units, this provides to some degree a unifying relation between gravimagnetism and electromagnetism at the quantum level. Graviphotons carry the same energy and momenta as photons at a given wavelength. Interesting! Energy can be *gained* by generating graviphotons? Graviphotons carry negative energy? From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 22 11:02:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1MJ1sic028192; Wed, 22 Feb 2006 11:01:55 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1MJ1rwx028157; Wed, 22 Feb 2006 11:01:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 11:01:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <4FEA1A82-C126-4BA2-A4B3-0EF64846FEA1@mtaonline.net> Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: re: Gravimagnetic Plank Constant Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 10:01:47 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66528 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Calculation error. Please ignore. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 22 11:58:14 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1MJvok0029782; Wed, 22 Feb 2006 11:57:51 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1MJvhWd029713; Wed, 22 Feb 2006 11:57:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 11:57:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 14:52:40 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Scotland is the Centre of a Gravity Revolution In-reply-to: To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66530 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: It would be simpler (but declared laughable ) to explain it by saying the _inertia_ of a body is a function of _where_ it is. Thus the stars on the outer edges of the galaxy do not fly off because of more than expected gravity, but because of less than expected inertia. In other words Newton was right about gravity, but wrong about inertia. Harry > Scotland is the Centre of a Gravity Revolution > By Ian Johnston > > http://www.redorbit.com/news/space/396551/scotland_is_the_centre_of_a_gravit > y_revolution/index.html?source=r_space > > A SHOCKWAVE tore through the space-time continuum that is the global > astronomical community this week with the news that researchers at St > Andrews University have apparently rewritten the laws of physics. > > For one of the basic tenets of astronomy - the universal force of gravity - > is now under serious challenge from a radical, competing theory which in the > words of one observer threatens to "open Pandora's Box". > > Dr HongSheng Zhao, of St Andrews, and his Belgian collaborator Dr Benoit > Famaey believe that gravity actually changes depending on where it is in the > universe, and have thrown down a challenge for their doubters to prove them > wrong. > > Rather than exerting a uniform pull that gradually reduces as an object gets > further away, Dr Zhao and supporters of a controversial theory developed in > the 1980s by the physicist Moti Milgrom believe gravity is "boosted" in the > outer reaches of galaxy. > > This can be used to explain why stars at the ends of the spiral arms of > galaxies do not break free and fly off into space. > > But the idea of "flexi-gravity" runs contrary to the established theory that > mysterious "dark matter" - a mass of objects that cannot be seen by > astronomers - holds the stars together by providing the mass to create the > requisite amount of gravity. According to critics, the new theory should not > even be given house room by the great minds of astronomy as it runs so > contrary to established thinking. > > The long-lived and well- respected theories of Isaac Newton and Albert > Einstein would have to be thrown out the window, they protest. > > Despite these claims Dr Zhao and Dr Famaey worked on the Milgrom theory - > which was largely dismissed in the 1980s but recently refined in a manner > that brought it back to international attention - and have now defined how > gravity changes in a new formula. > Ads_kid=0;Ads_bid=0;Ads_xl=300;Ads_yl=250;Ads_xp='';Ads_yp='';Ads_opt=0;Ads_ > wrd=Ads_RVS;Ads_prf='';Ads_par='';Ads_cnturl='';Ads_sec=0;Ads_channels=''; > function Ads_PopUp() {} > This makes the extra mass provided by dark matter, which Dr Zhao describes > as "an assumption", unnecessary for there to be the kind of gravity that > keeps galaxies together. "It is a modification to the law of gravity as > prescribed by Newton and Einstein," he said. > > Newtonian physics can be used to predict the movement of the planets > successfully, but the problem comes when it is used to calculate the > movement of stars. Newton's formula was that the gravitational force of an > object was equal to the gravitational constant multiplied by its mass and > then divided by distance squared. The further away something is from the > source of the gravity, the less powerful it is. At the edges of the > universe, the force is so weak it is known as "nano-gravity". > > Dr Zhao said: "If you use Newton's theory, you will find something very odd. > The theory predicts the stars should be flying out of the galaxy, but in > reality they are staying inside. Because people liked Newton so much, they > put in dark matter in galaxies to keep the stars inside." > > Where others add in extra mass to galaxies to hold them together, he and Dr > Famaey were gripped by the idea that the gravitational constant could be > "boosted". > > "But how much do you want to boost it by? How do you put in a boost factor > in a way that keeps the theory beautiful. It's a tricky thing," Dr Zhao > said. > > "Our aim was to put in the right amount of boost and still keep its > intrinsic beauty... beauty meaning it doesn't violate fundamental > principles. > > "You need a large boost at the outskirts of the galaxy but you don't need > that near the sun." > > This required a gravitational constant that was anything but, and actually > changed depending on where it was in the universe. This presented a > fundamental problem. "There cannot be many laws of gravity. There has to be > only one function that works," he added. > > "By trial and error, only one set of functions comes out to be both simple > and explain the data. This formula explains it very well and does it sort of > effortlessly. > > Everything is fixed and it fits. > > "We have made the theory complete, connected the loose pieces of theory by > one nice formula, and we think this formula has deep physics behind it. This > theory is now fully specified so we can check it now." > > This is the crucial part of any scientific theory: if it is capable of being > tested and therefore falsified, it can be taken seriously. If scientists > fail to knock it down, the theory gains credibility. > > The new formula will be debated at a meeting at Edinburgh's Royal > Observatory in April, when Dr Zhao and Dr Famaey, of the Free University of > Brussels, will demonstrate their new formula on dark matter and gravity to > an audience of experts from ten countries. They can expect a stormy ride. > > "When people say 96 per cent of the universe is dark, that's an assumption," > Dr Zhao said. "We don't need to introduce huge amounts of dark matter to > explain the astronomical phenomena. > > "The theory doesn't exclude dark matter. It just turns out if you do this, > there is no real need for dark matter." He added that dark matter was still > present but was simply not dense enough to affect a galaxy. > > "It has an effect on the universe as a whole, but not on galaxies," he said. > > However, Professor George Efstathiou, director of the Institute of Astronomy > at Cambridge University, was unimpressed. "The physics of general relativity > is a consequence of deep-rooted principles in physics. It's not something > you can negotiate," he said. > > "If you tinker with Newton's laws you are giving up these deep- rooted > principles. You are also giving up general relativity. I wouldn't call it a > theory. You cannot consider it on anything like an equal footing with > general relativity." > > Dr David Bacon, an advanced fellow at Edinburgh Royal Observatory, said he > would have agreed with Prof Efstathiou until two years ago, when the > physicist Jacob Bekenstein refined the Milgrom theory. "I think there has > been a sea change with Bekenstein," Dr Bacon said. > > "What HongSheng Zhao has done is refine Bekenstein's theory and it is now a > good fit to some of the evidence - the evidence from the motion of stars. It > is certainly very intriguing work." > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 22 12:28:50 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1MKKJY2010742; Wed, 22 Feb 2006 12:28:28 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1MJfgpH019264; Wed, 22 Feb 2006 11:41:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 11:41:42 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060222194133203.31BD15800091@mwinf3114.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060222194134.009db0f8@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 19:41:34 +0000 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: An Article You Might Like, Frank. Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66529 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 06:26 am 22/02/2006 -0700, Fred wrote: > Lots of interesting slants on the nature of particle structure. > > Squares with your Beta Ether work? > > Fred > > http://www.newtonphysics.on.ca/magnetic/mass.html Thanks for that reference, Fred. 8-) Very interesting slants, indeed. Many aspects (though not all) do square with the Beta-atmosphere hypotheses. For example, it would appear that the Beta-atmosphere cavity called the electron is at the absolute zero for Beta-atmosphere pressure. In other words it is the Beta-atmosphere analogue of the Alpha-atmosphere absolute zero pressure, of 14.7 psi. I wonder what the absolute zero for Beta-atmosphere pressure comes to in terms of pounds per square inch. Can some Vortexian Guru work that one out? Cheers, Frank From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 22 13:44:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1MLU7Gj016905; Wed, 22 Feb 2006 13:43:48 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1MKw88b030323; Wed, 22 Feb 2006 12:58:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 12:58:08 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: An Article You Might Like, Frank. Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 07:57:54 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <2.2.32.20060222194134.009db0f8@pop.freeserve.net> In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.20060222194134.009db0f8@pop.freeserve.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta01ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Wed, 22 Feb 2006 20:57:54 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k1MKw0BE030225 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66531 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Grimer's message of Wed, 22 Feb 2006 19:41:34 +0000: Hi, [snip] >In other words it is the Beta-atmosphere analogue of >the Alpha-atmosphere absolute zero pressure, >of 14.7 psi. You're talking too much like an engineer Frank. I think that should be 0 psi. :) > >I wonder what the absolute zero for Beta-atmosphere >pressure comes to in terms of pounds per square inch. >Can some Vortexian Guru work that one out? If you divide the mass energy of the electron by the volume you get a pressure. The problem comes in determining the volume. If one assumes a sphere with the classical electron radius, then one gets a value of 1.3E26 psi. If one assumes a toroid with a minor radius equal to the classical electron radius, and the major radius equal to the Bohr radius, then one gets a value of 1.4E21 psi. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 22 13:54:00 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1MLrfZ9030996; Wed, 22 Feb 2006 13:53:42 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1MLrcGQ030954; Wed, 22 Feb 2006 13:53:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 13:53:38 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060222215333566.8A62C1C000E4@mwinf3001.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060222215335.0098873c@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:53:35 +0000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: An Article You Might Like, Frank. Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66532 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:57 am 23/02/2006 +1100, you wrote: >In reply to Grimer's message of Wed, 22 Feb 2006 19:41:34 +0000: >Hi, >[snip] >>In other words it is the Beta-atmosphere analogue of >>the Alpha-atmosphere absolute zero pressure, >>of 14.7 psi. > >You're talking too much like an engineer Frank. I think that >should be 0 psi. :) Ooops! I should have said 14.7 psi below ambient - but as you say, I am an engineer. ;-) >>I wonder what the absolute zero for Beta-atmosphere >>pressure comes to in terms of pounds per square inch. >>Can some Vortexian Guru work that one out? >If you divide the mass energy of the electron by the volume you >get a pressure. The problem comes in determining the volume. >If one assumes a sphere with the classical electron radius, then >one gets a value of 1.3E26 psi. If one assumes a toroid with a >minor radius equal to the classical electron radius, and the major >radius equal to the Bohr radius, then one gets a value of 1.4E21 >psi. > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk Thanks, I'll settle for 10^20 psi below ambient. That'll do me for a space elevator I'm sure. Frank From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 22 14:03:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1MM3LUt004711; Wed, 22 Feb 2006 14:03:22 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1MM3FjG004660; Wed, 22 Feb 2006 14:03:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 14:03:15 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060222213342106.19EFA3C0008E@mwinf3212.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060222213343.009ec1b4@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:33:43 +0000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Scotland is the Centre of a Gravity Revolution Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66534 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:52 pm 22/02/2006 -0500, you wrote: > > >It would be simpler (but declared laughable ) to explain it by saying the >_inertia_ of a body is a function of _where_ it is. > >Thus the stars on the outer edges of the galaxy do not fly off because of >more than expected gravity, but because of less than expected inertia. > >In other words Newton was right about gravity, but wrong about inertia. > >Harry Some years ago I wrote a little computer program which assumed that the stars were spiralling in towards the galactic centre in accordance with a inverse distance law. By adding a bit of randomness to the star positions I got a very plausible picture of a spiral galaxy. Try it for yourselves. Basically the exercise was based on seeing the inverse square law of gravity as the difference between two inverse linear laws, with the incoming gravitation pressure pushing stars together being slightly greater than the outgoing radiation pressure pushing stars apart. A bit like solar radiation, eh! 8-) On the galactic scale this gravitational radiation is polarised and we have 1/r incoming along the galactic plane and 1/(r + delta) outgoing perpendicular to the galactic plane. Cheers, Frank Grimer From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 22 14:30:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1MM12B2003520; Wed, 22 Feb 2006 14:01:04 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1MM0pDJ003398; Wed, 22 Feb 2006 14:00:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 14:00:51 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: FZNIDARSIC@aol.com Message-ID: <74.65ab22b0.312e37d8@aol.com> Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 16:55:36 EST Subject: another newman spinoff To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1140645336" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5022 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66533 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: -------------------------------1140645336 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en =20 =20 February 22, 2006 _Parallel Path Electromagnetic Motors_=20 (http://neosense.com/2006/02/22/parallel-path-electromagnetic-motors/)=20 =20 A revolution in motion?=20 Joe Flynn from Flynn Research is working on a new technology called =E2=80= =9C Parallel Path=E2=80=9D with Boeing Phantom Works. The technology claims to=20= be able to=20 increase magnet motor efficiency substantially, even over the 100% barrier.= They=20 have received a US Patent.=20 According to the technical brief at the Flynn Research website, Parallel Pat= h=20 is a quantum leap in electromagnetic motor technology that requires no=20 exotic materials or questionable science. A Parallel Path motor uses a pair= of =20 permanent magnets in addition to the familiar stator-coil-rotor arrangement=20= of =20 current motors. The magnets, along with an air gap, allow all of the magneti= c =20 flux within the core to be manipulated and directed=E2=80=93this ability to=20 manipulate the magnetic flux in the core of a motor is what provides the ex= ponential =20 increase in efficiency with Parallel Path technology. Best of all, the=20 Parallel Path technology can be used with linear as well as rotary electric= motors.=20 While this is still a new technology, motors built with Parallel Path=20 technology could provide a much-needed boost to the electric vehicle indust= ry by=20 providing motors that generate a lot of motive power while using considerab= le=20 less electrical power.=20 Some interesting links:=20 * _Flynn Research Inc._ (http://www.flynnresearch.net/) =20 * _Tom Bearden=E2=80=99s_ (http://www.cheniere.org/misc/oulist.htm) =20 Filed under _Innovations_ (http://neosense.com/category/innovations/) ,=20 _Physics_ (http://neosense.com/category/physics/) , _Eletronics_=20 (http://neosense.com/category/engineering/eletronics/)=20 -------------------------------1140645336 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en

February 22, 2006

Parallel Path Electromagnetic Motors

A revolution in motion?

3Dmotor.jpg=20Joe Flynn from Flynn Research is working on a new=20 technology called =E2=80=9CParallel Path=E2=80=9D with Boeing Phantom Works.= The technology=20 claims to be able to increase magnet motor efficiency substantially, even ov= er=20 the 100% barrier. They have received a US Patent.

According to the technical brief at the Flynn Research website, Parallel=20= Path=20 is a quantum leap in electromagnetic motor technology that requires no exoti= c=20 materials or questionable science. A Parallel Path motor uses a pair of=20 permanent magnets in addition to the familiar stator-coil-rotor arrangement=20= of=20 current motors. The magnets, along with an air gap, allow all of the magneti= c=20 flux within the core to be manipulated and directed=E2=80=93this ability to=20= manipulate=20 the magnetic flux in the core of a motor is what provides the exponential=20 increase in efficiency with Parallel Path technology. Best of all, the Paral= lel=20 Path technology can be used with linear as well as rotary electric motors.

3DJoeflynn3.gif=20While this is still a new technology, motors built with Parall= el=20 Path technology could provide a much-needed boost to the electric vehicle=20 industry by providing motors that generate a lot of motive power while using= =20 considerable less electrical power.

Some interesting links:

Filed under Innovations, Physics<= /A>, Eletronics
-------------------------------1140645336-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 22 14:36:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1MMa92N025552; Wed, 22 Feb 2006 14:36:09 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1MMAv5U008903; Wed, 22 Feb 2006 14:10:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 14:10:57 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <318AD6C2-21D7-4E3A-8570-B90E7B5DDBC4@mtaonline.net> Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: re: Gravimagnetic Plank Constant Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 13:10:43 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: <7YYbT.A.CLC.wFO_DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66535 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The Plank mass m_p is given by: m_p = (h-bar c/G)^0.5 = (h c/(2 Pi G)) ^0.5 (1) The Plank charge q_p is given by: q_p = (4 Pi h_bar c e_0)^0.5 = (2 h c e_0)^0.5 (2) Applying the gravimagnetic isomorphism to (2) above, the Plank gravimagnetic charge q_p_g is given by: q_p_g = (2 h_g c e_g_0)^0.5 (3) Where: e_g_0 = 1/(4 Pi G). (4) However, the Plank charge should also simply be i times the Plank mass q_p_g = i m_p (5) where i is the imaginary number i = (-1)^0.5. We thus have q_p_g = i (h c/(2 Pi G)) ^0.5 (6) Setting (6) and (3) equal we have: i (h c/(2 Pi G))^0.5 = (2 h_g c e_g_0)^0.5 (7) and solving for the gravimagnetic Plank constant h_g we have: - (h c/(2 Pi G)) = (2 h_g c e_g_0) (8) - (h c/(2 Pi G)) = ( h_g c/(2 Pi G)) (9) - h = h_g (10) Plank's constant has a 2002 CODATA recommended value of h = 6.626 0693e-34 J s with an uncertainty of 0.000 0011e-34 J s. Under the gravimagnetic isomorphism established in http://mtaonline.net/~hheffner/GR-and- QM.pdf, the gravimagnetic Plank's constant h_g is given by: h_g = - h = -6.626 0693e-34 J s Since both constants have the same units, this provides to some degree a unifying relation between gravimagnetism and electromagnetism at the quantum level. Graviphotons carry the same energy and momenta as photons at a given wavelength. Given the gravimagnetic expression for graviphoton momentum, p_g = h_g/lambda We see the momentum carried by the graviphoton is negative. This means impact with a graviphoton provides a thrust in the direction from which the graviphoton came. A graviphoton rocket would have to emit graviphotons in the direction in which it accelerates. Given the gravimagnetic analog to Plank's equation E_g = h_g nu the energy carried by a graviphoton is negative. This is a curious thing. Perhaps a mechanism exists to simultaneously emit photons in one direction and graviphotons in the other and thereby provide energy free propulsion. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 22 15:13:55 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1MNDXR8017569; Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:13:34 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1MNDVfY017538; Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:13:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:13:31 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <10293936.1140641852766.JavaMail.root@fepweb09> Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 12:57:32 -0800 From: OrionWorks To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Scotland is the Centre of a Gravity Revolution Cc: svj@orionworks.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Sensitivity: Normal Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66536 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: From: Harry Veeder > It would be simpler (but declared laughable ) to explain > it by saying the _inertia_ of a body is a function of _where_ > it is. > Thus the stars on the outer edges of the galaxy do not fly off > because of more than expected gravity, but because of less than > expected inertia. > In other words Newton was right about gravity, but wrong about > inertia. > Harry see: http://www.redorbit.com/news/space/396551/scotland_is_the_centre_of_a_gravity_revolution/index.html?source=r_space or http://tinyurl.com/mqlut This is a fascinating read. I wonder what kind of experiments they might devise to test this theory out. BTW, Certain visionary science fiction authors may have already sensed that something like this may actually be occurring and that a change in "inertia" might be an integral part of the fabric of space. The best novel I can think of that explores this possibility is by the famous SF writer Verner Vinge, "A Fire Upon the Deep" where Verner sets up the laws of physics in such a way that Faster Than Light (FTL) travel can only occur in the outer portions of the galaxy. If a FTL ship wanders too close to the galactic core it will get ensnared in a denser time/space continuum that essentially makes interstellar travel impossible. Verner's physics in many ways reminds me of a change in "inertia" as inferred by Dr Zhao and Dr. Famaey. Going even more Off Topic, Verner's novel, "Fire Upon the Deep" also explored a fascinating form of high intelligence where it takes several members of the species operating in physical close proximity with each other in order to function as a single intelligent self-conscious entity. If any of the individual members wanders too far away from the "pack" it will revert back to a more primitive non-sentient state of consciousness. Verner's got a lot of interesting ideas. Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 22 15:32:31 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1MNWCc7027103; Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:32:12 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1MNWAEf027083; Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:32:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:32:10 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <4FFB9B1A-ECE9-4B77-BBDE-A0F65B55FA05@mtaonline.net> Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: re: Gravimagnetic Plank Constant Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 14:31:57 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66537 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This email did not make it last time I tried so here goes again. The Plank mass m_p is given by: m_p = (h-bar c/G)^0.5 = (h c/(2 Pi G)) ^0.5 (1) The Plank charge q_p is given by: q_p = (4 Pi h_bar c e_0)^0.5 = (2 h c e_0)^0.5 (2) Applying the gravimagnetic isomorphism to (2) above, the Plank gravimagnetic charge q_p_g is given by: q_p_g = (2 h_g c e_g_0)^0.5 (3) Where: e_g_0 = 1/(4 Pi G). (4) However, the Plank charge should also simply be i times the Plank mass q_p_g = i m_p (5) where i is the imaginary number i = (-1)^0.5. We thus have q_p_g = i (h c/(2 Pi G)) ^0.5 (6) Setting (6) and (3) equal we have: i (h c/(2 Pi G))^0.5 = (2 h_g c e_g_0)^0.5 (7) and solving for the gravimagnetic Plank constant h_g we have: - (h c/(2 Pi G)) = (2 h_g c e_g_0) (8) - (h c/(2 Pi G)) = ( h_g c/(2 Pi G)) (9) - h = h_g (10) Plank's constant has a 2002 CODATA recommended value of h = 6.626 0693e-34 J s with an uncertainty of 0.000 0011e-34 J s. Under the gravimagnetic isomorphism established in http://mtaonline.net/~hheffner/GR-and- QM.pdf, the gravimagnetic Plank's constant h_g is given by: h_g = - h = -6.626 0693e-34 J s Since both constants have the same units, this provides to some degree a unifying relation between gravimagnetism and electromagnetism at the quantum level. Graviphotons carry the same energy and momenta as photons at a given wavelength. Given the gravimagnetic expression for graviphoton momentum, p_g = h_g/lambda We see the momentum carried by the graviphoton is negative. This means impact with a graviphoton provides a thrust in the direction from which the graviphoton came. A graviphoton rocket would have to emit graviphotons in the direction in which it accelerates. Given the gravimagnetic analog to Plank's equation E_g = h_g nu the energy carried by a graviphoton is negative. This is a curious thing. Perhaps a mechanism exists to simultaneously emit photons in one direction and graviphotons in the other and thereby provide energy free propulsion. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 22 15:45:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1MNji8d002402; Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:45:45 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1MNjga7002380; Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:45:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:45:42 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 13:40:42 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: My Sci-fi moon drive In-reply-to: <413A85EF-2019-471E-8ABF-A0F3E8BFFCB9@mtaonline.net> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: 4DWorldx <4DWorldx@yahoogroups.com> Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66538 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A sci-fi moon drive: A spacecraft with the ability to selectively shield itself from Earth's Gravity, so the Moon's gravity "pulls" the craft towards it. Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 22 18:07:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1N27Btg013723; Wed, 22 Feb 2006 18:07:12 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1N2795K013694; Wed, 22 Feb 2006 18:07:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 18:07:09 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <001401c6381d$cb9b56c0$dc037841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: References: <2.2.32.20060222213343.009ec1b4@pop.freeserve.net> Subject: Re: Scotland is the Centre of a Gravity Revolution Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 20:05:54 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2005-06-05) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.8 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66539 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Frank, The ability to add a bit of humor to science has been a Scots tradition for centuries. In the realm of imaginary thoughts like pressures ( or vacuum ) absolute, my approach to the calculation would be to consider a cubic meter square fittted perfectly ( without any space between the walls) inside a cubic meter square cavity with the understanding the cube inside would be able to slide out of the space without friction. The materials of the cube and the structure containing the cavity cannot be collapsed or penetrated. Turning the structure upside down would permit the cube to fall by gravity out to a point that the pressure absolute in the cavity vs the mass of the cube would reach equilibrium. Question: would the cube move ? If it moved , would the volume displaced inside the cavity represent pressure absolute? Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grimer" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 3:33 PM Subject: Re: Scotland is the Centre of a Gravity Revolution > At 02:52 pm 22/02/2006 -0500, you wrote: >> >> >>It would be simpler (but declared laughable ) to explain it by saying the >>_inertia_ of a body is a function of _where_ it is. >> >>Thus the stars on the outer edges of the galaxy do not fly off because of >>more than expected gravity, but because of less than expected inertia. >> >>In other words Newton was right about gravity, but wrong about inertia. >> >>Harry > > > Some years ago I wrote a little computer program which assumed that > the stars were spiralling in towards the galactic centre in accordance > with a inverse distance law. By adding a bit of randomness to the star > positions I got a very plausible picture of a spiral galaxy. Try it for > yourselves. > > Basically the exercise was based on seeing the inverse square law of > gravity as the difference between two inverse linear laws, with the > incoming gravitation pressure pushing stars together being slightly > greater than the outgoing radiation pressure pushing stars apart. > > A bit like solar radiation, eh! 8-) > > On the galactic scale this gravitational radiation is polarised and we > have 1/r incoming along the galactic plane and 1/(r + delta) outgoing > perpendicular to the galactic plane. > > Cheers, > > Frank Grimer > > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Feb 22 22:46:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1N6kb0C008412; Wed, 22 Feb 2006 22:46:38 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1N6kVdl008375; Wed, 22 Feb 2006 22:46:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 22:46:32 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: An Article You Might Like, Frank. Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 17:46:28 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <2.2.32.20060222215335.0098873c@pop.freeserve.net> In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.20060222215335.0098873c@pop.freeserve.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta04ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Thu, 23 Feb 2006 06:46:28 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k1N6kT97008356 Resent-Message-ID: <_YZMTB.A.zCC.HpV_DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66540 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Grimer's message of Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:53:35 +0000: Hi, [snip] >>If you divide the mass energy of the electron by the volume you >>get a pressure. The problem comes in determining the volume. >>If one assumes a sphere with the classical electron radius, then >>one gets a value of 1.3E26 psi. If one assumes a toroid with a >>minor radius equal to the classical electron radius, and the major >>radius equal to the Bohr radius, then one gets a value of 1.4E21 >>psi. >Thanks, I'll settle for 10^20 psi below ambient. That'll do me >for a space elevator I'm sure. [snip] Of course the problem with all this is that the ambient pressure for all particles ought to be the same, but with the proton having a much smaller volume, and a much larger mass, the pressure works out much higher (lower?), i.e. 1.5E31 psi if the proton is spherical with a radius of 0.7 fm....and we haven't even touched on the heavier exotic particles yet. So if you really want to maintain a beta-atmosphere argument, then you either need to show that the mass energy of a particle has nothing to do with b-atmospheric pressure, or you need to start at the other end of the particle spectrum, i.e. with the heaviest particle known to man, perhaps something equivalent to the Plank mass? Of course this then means that in order for the electron to be such a light weight, it must be quite "leaky", which might just work....if larger (volume) particles zoom around more slowly, then they can't cover all the bases all the time, hence are sieves with larger holes. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 23 00:35:16 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1N8YvFU024322; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 00:34:58 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1N8YuPS024313; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 00:34:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 00:34:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060223083450916.165A7B800086@mwinf3211.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060223083451.009bb024@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 08:34:51 +0000 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Scotland is the Centre of a Gravity Revolution Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66541 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 05:50 pm 23/02/2006 +1100, you wrote: >In reply to Grimer's message of Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:33:43 +0000: >Hi Frank, >[snip] >>Basically the exercise was based on seeing the inverse square law of >>gravity as the difference between two inverse linear laws, with the >>incoming gravitation pressure pushing stars together being slightly >>greater than the outgoing radiation pressure pushing stars apart. >[snip] >Haven't you missed the centrifugal force? I would think this would >be vastly greater (by very many orders of magnitude) than outgoing >radiation pressure. > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk I don't follow you. Using this yin and yang view of normal gravity means that inverse square gravity is the difference between two very much larger forces which, by making delta as small as we like, we can make the incoming and outgoing as large as we like. If as you say that the centrifugal force is many orders of magnitude greater then it would seem that this servo-mechanical view of gravity is just what is needed to counteract the inertial force. By the by I take the Flandern view of gravity as being something entirely different from EM and having >>FTL speed as befits a phenomena acting on a galactic scale. Frank POST SCRIPTUM: Out of sheer curiosity I looked up the origin of the yin and yang symbol. It is quite interesting. 8-) http://www.chinesefortunecalendar.com/yinyang.htm From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 23 01:03:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1N93RG1005084; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 01:03:27 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1N93Pkd005058; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 01:03:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 01:03:25 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060223090322195.2FB591C00087@mwinf3008.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060223090323.0097d8cc@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 09:03:23 +0000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: An Article You Might Like, Frank. Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66542 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 05:46 pm 23/02/2006 +1100, you wrote: >In reply to Grimer's message of Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:53:35 +0000: >Hi, >[snip] >>>If you divide the mass energy of the electron by the volume you >>>get a pressure. The problem comes in determining the volume. >>>If one assumes a sphere with the classical electron radius, then >>>one gets a value of 1.3E26 psi. If one assumes a toroid with a >>>minor radius equal to the classical electron radius, and the major >>>radius equal to the Bohr radius, then one gets a value of 1.4E21 >>>psi. >>Thanks, I'll settle for 10^20 psi below ambient. That'll do me >>for a space elevator I'm sure. >[snip] >Of course the problem with all this is that the ambient pressure >for all particles ought to be the same, Not so. The "absolute" zero pressure is different for the different atmospheres. For the Alpha- it is 14.7 psi below Alpha- ambient; for the Beta- it is - 10^20 psi below Beta- ambient; for the Gamma- it is ........ : for the Delta.....and so on. It's turtles all the way down. 8-) >but with the proton having >a much smaller volume, and a much larger mass, the pressure works >out much higher (lower?), i.e. 1.5E31 psi if the proton is >spherical with a radius of 0.7 fm....and we haven't even touched >on the heavier exotic particles yet. > >So if you really want to maintain a beta-atmosphere argument, then >you either need to show that the mass energy of a particle has >nothing to do with b-atmospheric pressure, or you need to start at >the other end of the particle spectrum, i.e. with the heaviest >particle known to man, perhaps something equivalent to the Plank >mass? > >Of course this then means that in order for the electron to be >such a light weight, it must be quite "leaky", which might just >work....if larger (volume) particles zoom around more slowly, then >they can't cover all the bases all the time, hence are sieves with >larger holes. You are pushing things further than I care to take them at this point in time - but I quite like the sound of what you are suggesting - I think.... 8-) Cheers, Frank From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 23 01:41:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1N9fAU1022467; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 01:41:11 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1N9f9p9022447; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 01:41:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 01:41:09 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.20060223083451.009bb024@pop.freeserve.net> References: <2.2.32.20060223083451.009bb024@pop.freeserve.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Scotland is the Centre of a Gravity Revolution Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 00:41:04 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66543 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Feb 22, 2006, at 11:34 PM, Grimer wrote: > > By the by I take the Flandern view of gravity as being something > entirely different from EM and having >>FTL speed as befits a > phenomena acting on a galactic scale. There is some interesting controversy about this. PHYSICS NEWS UPDATE The American Institute of Physics Bulletin of Physics News Number 620 January 10, 2003 by Phillip F. Schewe, Ben Stein, and James Riordon CAN THE SPEED OF GRAVITY be measured directly through the observation of gravitational lensing effects? Two scientists who monitored the deflection of quasar light as it passed very near Jupiter argue that they have derived an experimental value for the speed of gravity equal to 1.06 times the speed of light (with an uncertainty of 20%). But two other scientists claim that the lensing experiment only served as a crude measurement of the speed of light itself. Physicists have long taken for granted that the effect of gravitational force, like the effect of electromagnetic force, is not instantaneous but should travel at a finite velocity. A familiar example of this delay is the fact that when we see the sun, we see it as it was 8 minutes ago. Many believe that gravity also travels at the speed of light. The trouble is, while it is relatively easy to gauge the strength of gravity (one can measure gravity even near a black hole, where orbiting matter emits telltale x rays), it is difficult to study the propagation of gravity. Although not as heavy as a star, Jupiter still has considerable gravity, and when on September 8, 2002, it swept very near the position of quasar J0842 + 1835, the theory of general relativity suggests that the apparent quasar position on the sky would execute a small loop over the course of several days owing to the lensing of quasar light by the passing planet. Sergei Kopeiken (University of Missouri) and Ed Fomolont (National Radio Astronomy Observatory, or NRAO) have now seen just such a loop, as they reported this week at the meeting of the American Astronomical Society (AAS) in Seattle. For this purpose they employed the Very Long Baseline Array (VLBA) of radio telescopes, a configuration of dish detectors providing an angular resolution of 10 micro-arcseconds. Actually the observed lensing loop was slightly displaced from what one would expect if gravity propagated instantaneously. Kopeiken and Fomolont interpret this slight displacement as providing an experimental handle on the speed of gravity itself, and thereby calculate the value of 1.06 times c. Other scientists disagree with this interpretation, and say that the radio lensing data can do little more than provide a measurement of the speed of light, not gravity. Two such opinions, by scientists who did not report at the AAS meeting, are as follows: Clifford Will of Washington University in the US (preprint at (www.arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0301145 ) and Hideki Asada of Hirosaki University in Japan (www.arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0206266 ) From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 23 02:01:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1NA1U0Y032348; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 02:01:30 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1NA1Snk032325; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 02:01:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 02:01:28 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 04:55:39 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: Scotland is the Centre of a Gravity Revolution In-reply-to: <2.2.32.20060223083451.009bb024@pop.freeserve.net> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66545 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Grimer wrote: > POST SCRIPTUM: Out of sheer curiosity I looked up the origin of > the yin and yang symbol. It is quite interesting. 8-) > > http://www.chinesefortunecalendar.com/yinyang.htm > Cool. So, it is more than just an icon for eastern philosophy. Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 23 02:02:06 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1NA1hsO032431; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 02:01:44 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1NA1b36032380; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 02:01:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 02:01:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 04:51:08 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: Scotland is the Centre of a Gravity Revolution In-reply-to: <2.2.32.20060223083451.009bb024@pop.freeserve.net> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66544 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Grimer wrote: > POST SCRIPTUM: Out of sheer curiosity I looked up the origin of > the yin and yang symbol. It is quite interesting. 8-) > > http://www.chinesefortunecalendar.com/yinyang.htm > Cool. So, it is more than just an icon for eastern philosophy. Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 23 05:59:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1NDxKwa011383; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 05:59:20 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1NDxHgC011355; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 05:59:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 05:59:17 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 08:59:11 -0500 Message-Id: <8C806987529C0D5-245C-6C47@mblkn-m04.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <2.2.32.20060223083451.009bb024@pop.freeserve.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.20060223083451.009bb024@pop.freeserve.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Scotland is the Centre of a Gravity Revolution Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.68 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66546 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Grimer POST SCRIPTUM: Out of sheer curiosity I looked up the origin of the yin and yang symbol. It is quite interesting. 8-) http://www.chinesefortunecalendar.com/yinyang.htm <><><><><><> Fascinating that this comes from the tilt of the axis relative to the ecliptic! Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 23 06:22:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1NEMUEe022302; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 06:22:30 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1NEMTnx022293; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 06:22:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 06:22:29 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=GX3zkRnn86fXIYjYA5w3QfagDme4WzbhMUkLL1ZYqZj2xcY+DSVZGBW/wsIs+Klc; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220062423142215276@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re; Positronium ion Annihilation or Formation of Electronium? Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 07:22:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9401bd9a2341acfb3e6328fcc2ddc1ad923350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.120.20 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66547 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Picture of experimental setup at the Max Planck Institute: And explanation of the procedure. There should be gammas of at least 200 KeV released as binding energy when the (*e-) Triad "Electonium" forms putting it's rest mass at 2+ electron masses.. Fred http://www.mpi-hd.mpg.de/ato/psminus/ "In the experimental chamber the positrons pass through a grounded copper grid and get accelerated onto a thin carbon foil. This foil is just a few atomic layers thick. In the Carbon foil most of the positrons capture one electron and form the electrically neutral Positronium. Very rarely a positron captures two electrons and forms the negative charged Ps-. A second grid after the carbon foil is on high voltage (about 4kV) and accelerates the Ps- ions. This Doppler-shifts the decay-?s to higher energies in forward direction, while the energy of the ?s from the neutral Positronium remains at 511 keV. To measure the spectra a Germanium detector at the temperature of liquid nitrogen detects the ? radiation from the decays of the positronium and positronium ion. " ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Picture of experimental setup at the Max Planck Institute: And explanation of the procedure.
 
There should be gammas  of at least 200 KeV released as binding energy when the (*e-) Triad
"Electonium" forms putting it's rest mass at 2+ electron masses..
 
Fred
 
 

"In the experimental chamber the positrons pass through a grounded copper grid and get accelerated onto a thin carbon foil. This foil is just a few atomic layers thick. In the Carbon foil most of the positrons capture one electron and form the electrically neutral Positronium. Very rarely a positron captures two electrons and forms the negative charged Ps-.

A second grid after the carbon foil is on high voltage (about 4kV) and accelerates the Ps- ions. This Doppler-shifts the decay-?s to higher energies in forward direction, while the energy of the ?s from the neutral Positronium remains at 511 keV.

To measure the spectra a Germanium detector at the temperature of liquid nitrogen detects the ? radiation from the decays of the positronium and positronium ion. "

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 23 07:42:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1NFcJe7030684; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 07:38:20 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1NFcEbl030616; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 07:38:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 07:38:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060223094314.03414a18@mindspring.com> Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060223094120.0340ca18@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 09:43:20 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Breaking News: Bush says "not to worry" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_2824140==.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66549 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --=====================_2824140==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed CNN NEWS ALERT Referring to debate over foreign operations of U.S. ports, President Bush says "people don't need to worry about security." See: http://www.cnn.com/ (This is not a joke) --=====================_2824140==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" CNN


NEWS ALERT

Referring to debate over foreign operations of U.S. ports, President Bush says "people don't need to worry about security."


See: http://www.cnn.com/

(This is not a joke) --=====================_2824140==.ALT-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 23 07:46:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1NFe4xU032036; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 07:45:31 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1NFUNKh025793; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 07:30:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 07:30:23 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=WEU0GPX3cby5TX05tj5K2mh0z0YJvaD38BDHAca00GU9nZ5o+JnZo0Mt395PuNf6; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006242315300592@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Positronium ion Annihilation or Formation of Electronium? Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 08:30:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9403decdfa97fd394b83ccde7fe0f5efcce350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.38 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66548 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Since positron emission is one of the decay pathways of Potassium-40 which is inherently present (~0.017%) in potassium. Potassium was used in the P & F Electrolysis Cell, Case Cell (coconut shell-derived activated charcoal contains potassium) , Mills' Hydrino, also various and sundry CF-OU experiments. Enter stable, 2+ electron mass (*e-) as a catalyst? Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 2/23/2006 7:28:27 AM Subject: Re; Positronium ion Annihilation or Formation of Electronium? Picture of experimental setup at the Max Planck Institute: And explanation of the procedure. There should be gammas of at least 200 KeV released as binding energy when the (*e-) Triad "Electronium" forms putting it's rest mass at 2+ electron masses.. Fred http://www.mpi-hd.mpg.de/ato/psminus/ "In the experimental chamber the positrons pass through a grounded copper grid and get accelerated onto a thin carbon foil. This foil is just a few atomic layers thick. In the Carbon foil most of the positrons capture one electron and form the electrically neutral Positronium. Very rarely a positron captures two electrons and forms the negative charged Ps-. A second grid after the carbon foil is on high voltage (about 4kV) and accelerates the Ps- ions. This Doppler-shifts the decay-?s to higher energies in forward direction, while the energy of the ?s from the neutral Positronium remains at 511 keV. To measure the spectra a Germanium detector at the temperature of liquid nitrogen detects the ? radiation from the decays of the positronium and positronium ion. " ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Since positron emission is one of the decay pathways of Potassium-40 which
is inherently present  (~0.017%) in potassium.
Potassium was used in the P & F Electrolysis Cell, Case Cell (coconut shell-derived activated
charcoal contains potassium) , Mills' Hydrino, also various and sundry CF-OU experiments.
 
Enter stable,  2+ electron mass (*e-) as a catalyst?
 
Fred
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 2/23/2006 7:28:27 AM
Subject: Re; Positronium ion Annihilation or Formation of Electronium?

Picture of experimental setup at the Max Planck Institute: And explanation of the procedure.
 
There should be gammas  of at least 200 KeV released as binding energy when the (*e-) Triad
"Electronium" forms putting it's rest mass at 2+ electron masses..
 
Fred
 
 

"In the experimental chamber the positrons pass through a grounded copper grid and get accelerated onto a thin carbon foil. This foil is just a few atomic layers thick. In the Carbon foil most of the positrons capture one electron and form the electrically neutral Positronium. Very rarely a positron captures two electrons and forms the negative charged Ps-.

A second grid after the carbon foil is on high voltage (about 4kV) and accelerates the Ps- ions. This Doppler-shifts the decay-?s to higher energies in forward direction, while the energy of the ?s from the neutral Positronium remains at 511 keV.

To measure the spectra a Germanium detector at the temperature of liquid nitrogen detects the ? radiation from the decays of the positronium and positronium ion. "

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 23 08:25:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1NGP0JK026157; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 08:25:00 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1NGOvKc026137; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 08:24:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 08:24:57 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <43FDE1B5.7090201@usfamily.net> Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 10:24:21 -0600 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Dr. Tipler responds Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66551 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Vortexians; Dr. Frank Tipler of Tulane Physics department sent me a copy his 68 page paper on his theories about antimatter. He proposes some experiments to test his ideas, I'll read it. --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 23 08:38:19 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1NGUDgc029310; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 08:37:52 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1NGEV0b021069; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 08:14:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 08:14:31 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <000c01c63894$2e620990$eb027841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060223094314.03414a18@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Breaking News: Bush says "not to worry" Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 10:14:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C63861.E2ED1810" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2005-06-05) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.8 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,HTML_60_70, HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66550 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C63861.E2ED1810 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Howdy Jed, I don't believe the American people are worried about Dubya's security. = He is secure. Wez woried about OUR security. Richard. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jed Rothwell=20 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com=20 Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 8:43 AM Subject: Breaking News: Bush says "not to worry" CNN NEWS ALERT Referring to debate over foreign operations of U.S. ports, President = Bush says "people don't need to worry about security." See: http://www.cnn.com/ (This is not a joke) ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C63861.E2ED1810 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Howdy Jed,
I don't believe the American people = are worried=20 about Dubya's security. He is secure. Wez woried about OUR=20 security.
Richard.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Jed Rothwell

"According to Van Norstrands Scientific Encyclopedia, 5th ed. Van N= ostrand Reinhold Co. (1976) simple electron bombardment of helium radioactiv= e isotope of extremely short half-life, in this state, the helium atom unpai= rs its electrons, promotes one electron to the 2s state in which it remains=20= for a very short time and afterwards releases 460,000 cal/gram atom per gram= of helium on collapse of the excited atom back to its ground state.  T= he heat is in the form of photons.  This is similar to the process of a= tomic hydrogen. Apparently as the hydrogen passes through the arc, the elect= ric and magnetic fields, plus heat, provide the activation energy triggering= the molecules apprehension of an additional 108,897 calo/gram molecule of e= ndothermic dissociation energy.   On recombination the atoms shrin= k in volume as the excess gathered encompassing a greater volume of Omni Mat= ter (ether).  On recombination the atoms shrink in volume as the excess= gathered energy is squeezed out of the ether as free (heat) energy.  T= he endothermic dissociation absorbs only 103/cal gram energy, yet on recombi= nation the atoms exothermically yield a net 108,897 cal/gram molecule. ....<= /DIV>
 
At the comparable 30 mpg for n-heptane, helium could produce 42.86 time= s as much or about 1285.8 miles per pound.  Pg 97.Quoted from O= ccult Ether Physics Teslas Hidden Space Propulsion System and the Conspiracy= to Conceal It  By William Lyne, Pg. 92""
 
If the above statements prove to be true, then palladium is not needed=20= in the cold fusion process, and cold fusion may be replaced by a simple atom= ic hydrogen torch, which existed in the 1930's as a standard torch product,=20= but was hidden and taken from us by oil well politics and governme= ntal propaganda distorting or hiding the truths of science.  The r= elativistic theories promoted by oil well politics hides the facts of free e= nergy science and structure of the universe from us.  I read in another= book that stated that some E.T.'s who came to Earth, showed us how they sim= ply separate a hydrogen atom to create atomic hydrogen, and then allow the h= ydrogen atoms to recombine to create free energy.  There are other sour= ces which verify the above claims.
 
 
-------------------------------1140119433-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 16 13:08:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1GL8GAx021863; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 13:08:17 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1GL8FHR021849; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 13:08:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 13:08:15 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: ThomasClark123@aol.com Message-ID: <30.24ab57b.312643ad@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 16:07:57 EST Subject: Re: TT Brown To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1140124077" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <9XjKz.A.PVF.-mO9DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66464 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1140124077 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/13/2006 4:34:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, michael.foster@excite.com writes: I don't think this fellow's effort is suffering from corona leakage, but there may be a simple prosaic explanation for his results. With the intermittent application of a high voltage source to his capacitor, there might be a physical flexing or twisting of the device. In this case, it would be the same as a person kicking his legs to make a swing work. If this is what was happening, no unusual physical theory is required. William Lyne in his book, Occult Ether Physics Teslas Hidden Space Propulsion System and the Conspiracy to Conceal It, mentions that the Biefeld-Brown theory was introduced as disinformation to hide the Tesla antigravity Theories. The book Nikola Tesla Free Energy and White Dove Abelard Productions Inc. 1992 Global Communications Conspiracyjournal.com, mentions that TT Brown did demonstrate some of his devices to the US Military, and some of his ideas were immedialty classified. -------------------------------1140124077 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 2/13/2006 4:34:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, michael.= foster@excite.com writes:

I don't think this fellow's effort is suff= ering from corona leakage,
but there may be a simple prosaic explanation=20= for his results. With
the intermittent application of a high voltage sour= ce to his capacitor,
there might be a physical flexing or twisting of the= device.  In this
case, it would be the same as a person kicking his= legs to make a
swing work.  If this is what was happening, no unus= ual physical theory
is required.
William Lyne in his book, Occult Ether Physics Teslas Hidden Space Prop= ulsion System and the Conspiracy to Conceal It, mentions that the Biefeld-Br= own theory was introduced as disinformation to hide the Tesla antigravity Th= eories.  The book Nikola Tesla Free Energy and White Dove Abelard Produ= ctions Inc. 1992 Global Communications Conspiracyjournal.com, mentions that=20= TT Brown did demonstrate some of his devices to the US Military, and some of= his ideas were immedialty classified.
-------------------------------1140124077-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 16 13:16:02 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1GLFaKI026944; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 13:15:37 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1GLFYxK026911; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 13:15:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 13:15:34 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydrogen Vehicle for Japan Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 08:15:26 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <11p9v1henl59pm1mcd55mgmng6eui4i7c0@4ax.com> References: <003901c6330f$5b541180$6401a8c0@NuDell> In-Reply-To: <003901c6330f$5b541180$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.1/32.783 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta03ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Thu, 16 Feb 2006 21:15:25 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k1GLFV4q026840 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66465 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Jones Beene's message of Thu, 16 Feb 2006 07:40:46 -0800: Hi, [snip] >http://www.keveney.com/Wankel.html I was surprised to see that the central shaft in the animation doesn't rotate. Does this mean the engine produces no output power? :> > >This Wankel engine is uniquely appropriate for hydrogen. The >efficiency has even surprised Mazda. Here is the recent story: > >http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/feb2006/bw20060215_222935.htm See also http://www.mazda.com.au/currentnews.asp?articleZoneID=2490#Article-2022 [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 16 17:16:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1GMBCur025750; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 14:11:12 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1GMB9bG025713; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 14:11:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 14:11:09 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <001f01c63345$e1168fb0$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <003901c6330f$5b541180$6401a8c0@NuDell> <11p9v1henl59pm1mcd55mgmng6eui4i7c0@4ax.com> Subject: Re: Hydrogen Vehicle for Japan Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 14:11:04 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66466 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin > I was surprised to see that the central shaft in the animation > doesn't rotate. Does this mean the engine produces no output > power? :> In the Wankel there is a fixed gear (shown) which does not rotate and also a crankshaft (not shown). Since they occupy space on either side of the rotor, it is difficult if not impossible to show both in an animation. Often, only the crankshaft (eccentric) is shown, and then that is misleading also - as those who do not understand the mechanics cannot figure out now the rotor should stay sealed against the circumference following the ignition with only the eccentric. Of course the problem is that you need both, and only one can be shown at a time from that viewpoint. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 16 18:30:03 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1H2TrbX022715; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 18:29:54 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1H2TjWF022554; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 18:29:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 18:29:45 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060216132342.03484fe8@mindspring.com> References: <99886622-3CE8-4762-8254-3361C5C990CF@mtaonline.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20060216132342.03484fe8@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Entropy Compensation for Random Pads Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 17:29:34 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66467 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Feb 16, 2006, at 9:29 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > Horace Heffner and improved method of using a thermal amplifier to > produce a random sequence of numbers. Amplifies have been used for > this purpose for a long time I believe. I saw a reference to one in > the 1950s. They sure have. The problems are (a) speed and (b) sensing the signal such that the probability of a 0 or 1 is 0.500..., the very problems addressed in: http://www.cryptography.com/resources/whitepapers/VIA_rng.pdf. > Anyway, Heffner wrote: > >> In other words, both the clock timer and the measured interval >> must be random and independent. In the case where the time >> interval between radioactive disintegration events is used, the >> timer flip-flop state needs to be driven by a nonuniform clock, >> say by filtered noise from a high gain amplifier. > > If you have a method of detecting radioactive disintegration, why > would you use the thermal amplifier technique in the first place? Speed and cost. Particle detectors are (by comparison) expensive and have a comparatively long latency between counts. They might also affected by half-life depending on the isotope used. > > Also, wouldn't the radioactive technique be perfectly random? The counting itself is slow. More importantly, the triggering or clocking mechanism is going to be biased (by circuit hysteresis) so as not to obtain an exactly 50/50 split. Even worse, the amount of the bias will change with temperature and possibly other influences, like line noise. > > I suppose that nowadays with cheap americium smoke detectors > available, it would not be difficult or dangerous to make a > radioactive disintegration random number generator. > > - Jed It would be slow as molasses compared with what is possible, more expensive, and not achieve the entropy of the new method suggested in the update at the bottom of the posting. The issues you bring up are based on the first part of the post, which is just a repeat of vortex posts from April 2000. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 16 23:28:09 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1H7RtBi007757; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 23:27:56 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1H7RrvL007735; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 23:27:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 23:27:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <43F57AC6.6090201@usfamily.net> Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 01:27:02 -0600 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: tabletop fusion Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66468 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Someone posted, http://www.physorg.com/news10806.html Interesting page. The embedded links were, quite cheezey, but I suppose that the webmaster has got to generate cashflow one way or another. Whats the potential for O U energy generation? --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 17 14:11:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1HMAV4Z017384; Fri, 17 Feb 2006 14:11:02 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1HLuu6K001186; Fri, 17 Feb 2006 13:56:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 13:56:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=ix.netcom.com; b=h/K0/eCjxFNUOEa5nEI3Bd7XeOB01mKh7PAzvC9zO82NO8myiL8SiAaYMDiRyknH; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220062517135531260@ix.netcom.com> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: aki@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.1.47.0 (Windows) From: "" To: "vortex-l" Subject: FW: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday February 10, 2006 Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 13:55:31 -00 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: c4cc7f5f697e8746f66dc3a06d5924d84efa476a0941d9be3c7b1919b9d847041e3821db987f1b31350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 216.175.84.59 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66469 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > [Original Message] From: What's New To: Date: 2/17/2006 8:35:57 PM Subject: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday February 10, 2006 WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 17 Feb 06 Washington, DC 1. DOVER EFFECT: HAS INTELLIGENT DESIGN SUFFERED A MORTAL WOUND? The Ohio Board of Education voted 11 to 4 on Tuesday to scrap a requirement that "critical analysis of evolution" be taught in biology classes. Ohio's "critical analysis" ploy for teaching intelligent design had been hailed by The Discovery Institute as a model for the entire nation. Rejection by the Education Board came as a direct consequence of the Dover ruling by U.S. District Court Judge John E. Jones III: teaching ID is unconstitutional http://bobpark.physics.umd.edu/WN05/wn122305.html . A Discovery Institute spokesman publicly scoffed that the Dover ruling was not binding elsewhere, but Judge Jones expanded the blast radius by awarding damages to the parents who brought suit. That got the attention of school boards. The Discovery Institute has bet the farm on selling ID as science, but the Dover effect has blunted it in California, Indiana and Wisconsin, and now Ohio. 2. EVOLUTION SUNDAY: CHRISTIAN CHURCHES HONORING CHARLES DARWIN? Go on! Yes, Sunday was the 197th birthday of Charles Darwin. At 450 churches around the nation it was celebrated with sermons and programs that mingle biological evolution and faith. Something is happening. The public is getting an unprecedented exposure to evolution in books, museum exhibits, and news programs. Coming soon to a theater near you is Flock of Dodos. Film maker and marine biologist Randy Olsen has made a movie about evolution and intelligent design http://www.flockofdodos.com . It has what fundamentalists all lack a sense of humor. And we owe it all to the Discovery Institute and intelligent design. 3. MELTING: GLACIERS IN GREENLAND ARE RAPIDLY BECOMING OCEAN. New data from satellite imagery show the glaciers to be melting twice as fast as they were a decade ago, according to a report in today's Science. The study focused on the rate of glacial ice flow. Meanwhile, NASA's budget is focused on finishing the ISS, which everyone now seems to agree is pointless, and preparations for the Moon/Mars, which is equally pointless and won't happen anyway. NASA's Deep Space Climate Observatory, which was waiting to be launched and would have given unique insight into global warming, is terminated because it had Al Gore's Initials on it http://bobpark.physics.umd.edu/WN06/wn010606.html . 4. ENVIRONMENT: EPA TO SHUT DOWN LIBRARY NETWORK AND E-CATALOG. The Bush budget cut the EPA's $2.5M library network budget by 80%. Well, you gotta cut someplace. Yesterday, Bush asked for another $72B for the war on terror and $20B for Katrina relief. 5. ARMED AND DANGEROUS: DOMESTIC SURVEILLANCE CONNECTS THE DOTS. Why was the White House so secretive about a Texas quail hunt and what happened to Vivy, the champion whippet, in Kennedy Airport? The NSA put it all together: The Vice President shot the whippet. THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND. Opinions are the author's and not necessarily shared by the University of Maryland, but they should be. --- Archives of What's New can be found at http://www.bobpark.org What's New is moving to a different listserver and our subscription process has changed. To change your subscription status please visit this link: http://listserv.umd.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=bobparks-whatsnew&A=1 From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 18 07:01:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1IF0v5E013252; Sat, 18 Feb 2006 07:00:57 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1IF0pBe013209; Sat, 18 Feb 2006 07:00:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 07:00:51 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <000801c6349c$0b55c230$f8027841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: Question Marks? Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 09:00:22 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C63469.C0335D80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2005-06-05) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.4 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_90_100,HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66470 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C63469.C0335D80 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0005_01C63469.C0335D80" ------=_NextPart_001_0005_01C63469.C0335D80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankHi Vorts, Any reason for the total absence of posts the last 24 hrs? Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0005_01C63469.C0335D80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Hi Vorts,
 
Any reason for the total absence of posts the last 24 hrs?
 
Richard

 

------=_NextPart_001_0005_01C63469.C0335D80-- ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C63469.C0335D80 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000301c6349c$0ac4a5c0$f8027841@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C63469.C0335D80-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 18 09:00:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1IH09kP021239; Sat, 18 Feb 2006 09:00:10 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1IH08Wj021209; Sat, 18 Feb 2006 09:00:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 09:00:08 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060218090019.02951990@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 09:02:47 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: "steven@newenergytimes.com" Subject: Re: Question Marks? In-Reply-To: <000801c6349c$0b55c230$f8027841@xptower> References: <000801c6349c$0b55c230$f8027841@xptower> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66471 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hmmm. Dunno Maybe UFOs have come back to Roswell and everybody is down there gawking? Maybe MIT has announced a new cold fusion device and they're all there celebrating? Or perhaps, being the avid outdoor sportsmen that they are, the Vorts are all out buying body armor? s At 07:00 AM 2/18/2006, you wrote: >Hi Vorts, > >Any reason for the total absence of posts the last 24 hrs? > >Richard > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 18 11:29:37 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1IJTJVs015453; Sat, 18 Feb 2006 11:29:20 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1IJTHbM015437; Sat, 18 Feb 2006 11:29:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 11:29:17 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=spvpJWy1J+Uv53i6QsBfyE81z1CEkfOfptOszrNbDRncfS/+oZvLaBEbipKTh2uNs7TpD5yMvtRsh+6KC4gwqA3bBLLveNOx+DQLnx1gT//AgdA8zMttoFWDfnq3SPhP5na8qqURYRYHOl9dq5u9bcwjRUkQYoNritCE8sOjOHQ= ; Message-ID: <20060218192915.60542.qmail@web32215.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 11:29:15 -0800 (PST) From: Merlyn Subject: Space Elevators To: Vortex MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <9HQOD.A.CxD.NW39DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66472 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have been giving a lot of thought to space elevators recently, and wanted to run a few trhings by the collected wisdom that is Vortex. I have seen a lot of talk about how easily the cable could be damaged, but I'm wandering if they didn't forget something. Current estimations using carbon nanotubes predict a cable no more than a couple square centimeters in cross-section (average), and some are predicting less. With the tension on the cable, what prevents it from mimicing a cheese-cutter, and slicing right through anything unfortunate enough to impact it? Granted, that doesn't apply to the liftport group's concept, they have their cable flattened into a meter-wide ribbon, and presumably the strands in the impact area would not be up to withstanding an impact. Which brings up my next point, possibilities of damage from terrorism are estimated to be high, simply from the stature of the elevator, but honestly, how hard would it be to fly an airplane into a target that is at most 1 meter wide? ------------------------------------- Enough with generalities, the cable/ribbon design I favor would actually be four cables, interconnected. Each cable would be slightly dumbel shaped 0-0 (although without the sharp corners), and approximately 3 cm wide and 1/2 cm thick. A pair of these cables would be interconnected 0-0><0-0 for a total width of 10 cm. This would then be similarly connected to the other pair 0-0><0-0>-----------<0-0><0-0 for an overall width of 1 meter. The interconnections between the cables would be an open lattice of small fibers at 45 degree angles to distribute forces in the event of a failure. Elevator cars would travel up one pair of cables, and down the other pair. The dumbell shape allows the car to get lateral grip, allowing it to hang off the side of the cable. Each cable would have a safety factor of 1.5, meaning it can carry 150% of the expected load. If a cable breaks, then the extra load is distributed to the other three. Due to the interconnected nature of the cables, at least 2 cables would have to be broken within a fairly short vertical distance to cause failure. There is a formula (which I am too lazy to track down and retype) which can be used to determine the minimum cable cross section at an height for any material, and IIRC the result is that a CNT cable would have approx. 9x the cross section at GSO as at the surface. Granted, by dictating a that the cables can carry 50% more load that would increase, but probably not more than 2x-4x. just something to while away idle neuron time. Merlyn Magickal Engineer and Technical Metaphysicist __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 18 18:43:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1J2gqJN000331; Sat, 18 Feb 2006 18:42:52 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1J2goiJ032758; Sat, 18 Feb 2006 18:42:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 18:42:50 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <43F7DB1C.3010507@pobox.com> Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 21:42:36 -0500 From: "Stephen A. Lawrence" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20060202 Fedora/1.7.12-1.5.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Entropy Compensation for Random Pads References: <99886622-3CE8-4762-8254-3361C5C990CF@mtaonline.net> In-Reply-To: <99886622-3CE8-4762-8254-3361C5C990CF@mtaonline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66473 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > > UPDATE - FEBRUARY 16, 2006 > An arbitrarily close approximation to an hysteresis free circuit (a > circuit producing bits with information entropy approaching 1) can be > obtained by XORing the outputs from multiple independent circuits > having hysteresis. The XORing can be achieved using simple clocked > digital logic. Suppose a circuit is being used that is very fast, but > exhibits a hysteresis of about 1 percent. That is to say the > probability of a 1 is 0.495 percent, and the probability of a 0 is > 0.505 percent. By XORing the output of the two independent circuits, > the probability of a 0 drops to 0.495^2 + 0.505^2 = .5005. By XORing > the output of four independent circuits, the probability of a 0 drops > to 0.4995^2 + 0.5005^2 = .5000005. By XORing the output of eight > independent circuits, the probability of a 0 drops to 0.4999995^2 + > 0.5000005^2 = .5000000000005. The hysteresis is removed to less than 1 > part in 10^12. That is really cool. Is it original? If so it's surely worth a patent! > This method has the advantage over the Von Neumann whitening method > (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_time_pad Are high-tech one-time-pads of any use? It seems like you need to securely send a key the same length as the message to use it. But if you can do that you can securely send the message itself (it's the same length) so what did you need to encrypt it for? The original physical one-time-pads used a centrally generated key (printed on the pad) which was carried with the spy to whatever destination. The spy knew whether he'd been caught (obviously) and knew whether he still had the pad with him (obviously) and so could know whether the pad's integrity had been compromised. Thus, in effect, the "channel" from headquarters to the field office was known to be "secure". So, since a copy of the pad was kept back at HQ, he could then send the encrypted message, _without_ the accompanying key, in perfect security, the only hazard being that he had to destroy the clear-text original _and_ his copy of the key in some secure fashion (cigarette lighter and hotel ashtray, for instance). When you move into the electronic world, though, you're presumably talking about generating the key on the spot, at the point where the encryption takes place. But that's useless! You only need to encrypt the message if the channel isn't secure, but in that case you can't send the key! Again, it seems like the _only_ way a one-time-pad can be useful is in the unusual case where there is a secure _one_ _way_ channel, and you need to transfer information the _other_ _way_. In that unique case the key can be originated at one end and a copy of the key sent securely, and the encrypted data can then be returned insecurely. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 18 19:29:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1J3SlYn009186; Sat, 18 Feb 2006 19:28:48 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1J3SjTY009152; Sat, 18 Feb 2006 19:28:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 19:28:45 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <43F7DB1C.3010507@pobox.com> References: <99886622-3CE8-4762-8254-3361C5C990CF@mtaonline.net> <43F7DB1C.3010507@pobox.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Entropy Compensation for Random Pads Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 18:28:19 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66474 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Feb 18, 2006, at 5:42 PM, Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: > > > Horace Heffner wrote: >> UPDATE - FEBRUARY 16, 2006 An arbitrarily close approximation to >> an hysteresis free circuit (a circuit producing bits with >> information entropy approaching 1) can be obtained by XORing the >> outputs from multiple independent circuits having hysteresis. >> The XORing can be achieved using simple clocked digital logic. >> Suppose a circuit is being used that is very fast, but exhibits a >> hysteresis of about 1 percent. That is to say the probability of >> a 1 is 0.495 percent, and the probability of a 0 is 0.505 >> percent. By XORing the output of the two independent circuits, >> the probability of a 0 drops to 0.495^2 + 0.505^2 = .5005. By >> XORing the output of four independent circuits, the probability >> of a 0 drops to 0.4995^2 + 0.5005^2 = .5000005. By XORing the >> output of eight independent circuits, the probability of a 0 >> drops to 0.4999995^2 + 0.5000005^2 = .5000000000005. The >> hysteresis is removed to less than 1 part in 10^12. > > That is really cool. Is it original? If so it's surely worth a > patent! Well, if so, I'll gladly sell any rights to it for $1 to anyone who wants to patent it. I seriously doubt the originality, though I did just write this off the top of my head with calculator busy in hand - as usual with most things I wrote to vortex. >> This method has the advantage over the Von Neumann whitening >> method (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_time_pad > > Are high-tech one-time-pads of any use? It seems like you need to > securely send a key the same length as the message to use it. But > if you can do that you can securely send the message itself (it's > the same length) so what did you need to encrypt it for? One time pads can be useful because they can be prepared in advance of the need to send a message. Ships or airplanes, for example, can carry one time pads on missions. > > The original physical one-time-pads used a centrally generated key > (printed on the pad) which was carried with the spy to whatever > destination. The spy knew whether he'd been caught (obviously) and > knew whether he still had the pad with him (obviously) and so could > know whether the pad's integrity had been compromised. Thus, in > effect, the "channel" from headquarters to the field office was > known to be "secure". So, since a copy of the pad was kept back at > HQ, he could then send the encrypted message, _without_ the > accompanying key, in perfect security, the only hazard being that > he had to destroy the clear-text original _and_ his copy of the key > in some secure fashion (cigarette lighter and hotel ashtray, for > instance). There are much better ways to use one time pads. > > When you move into the electronic world, though, you're presumably > talking about generating the key on the spot, at the point where > the encryption takes place. Not necessarily. > But that's useless! You only need to encrypt the message if the > channel isn't secure, but in that case you can't send the key! > Again, it seems like the _only_ way a one-time-pad can be useful is > in the unusual case where there is a secure _one_ _way_ channel, > and you need to transfer information the _other_ _way_. In that > unique case the key can be originated at one end and a copy of the > key sent securely, and the encrypted data can then be returned > insecurely. One use for on-the-spot one time pads is to fill in voids in communication channels. In that way signal analysis can not be used. Sometimes just knowing the communication volume on a channel is very useful. However, if vast quantities of filler one time pad are shipped, it is then possible for prearranged algorithms to be used to select and transform portions of that huge mass of seemingly useless data to arrive at a useful pad. A one time pad can then be used to exchange the small amount of transform information. However, my interest in this primarily relates to the EGG project. I have to wonder if a good whitening algorithm is used whether the effect will still be observed. Beyond that, I have to wonder even if a whitening algorithm suppresses the effect - so what? That's what it is supposed to do! It is the underlying quantum mechanics that are really in question, so suppressing that signal may just be foolish. OTOH, if the random number generators are not random, there is no surprise anomalies do occur. This is a tough problem. I think the place where the idea has real and immediate usefulness is in cases where true random number generators are already in use. One such place might be video poker and other gambling machines, and also Monte Carlo simulations. Bias in such machines could prove costly. The advantage to the method lies in the fact that no hardware changes are necessary if a hardware RNG is in place already. It is then merely a matter of generating and XORing pads. The problem is a slowing of the pad generation rate for that approach, but that is no problem at all for gambling machines. It may be of interest that processors are sold with two fast hardware RNGs built into the processor (and thus they are "free"). See: http://www.mini-box.com/s.nl/sc.8/category.99/it.A/id.432/.f Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 18 19:53:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1J3rgJr014411; Sat, 18 Feb 2006 19:53:42 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1J3rfwo014400; Sat, 18 Feb 2006 19:53:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 19:53:41 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f In-Reply-To: <43F7DB1C.3010507@pobox.com> References: <99886622-3CE8-4762-8254-3361C5C990CF@mtaonline.net> <43F7DB1C.3010507@pobox.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Entropy Compensation for Random Pads Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 18:53:34 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66475 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here's a thought about use of pseudo-random number generators in gambling machines. The sequence of random numbers is predetermined once a seed is chosen. It is thus possible to select a seed in advance which guarantees no payoffs until a certain point. In other words, it can be possible to rig the payoffs so there is no risk at all to the machine owner provided he resets his seed value periodically. For this reason, all gambling machines should be driven by true random number generators, not pseudo-random number generators. This protects the machine owners as well. If an observer knows the machine programming, he can compute the current seed value given enough observations of current games, and then predict future games with certainty, and chose to play only when a win is expected. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Feb 18 22:24:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1J5c7YQ003005; Sat, 18 Feb 2006 21:40:47 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1J5c58Q002975; Sat, 18 Feb 2006 21:38:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 21:38:05 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <43F80387.2020005@usfamily.net> Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 23:35:03 -0600 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Isodual nature of anitmatter Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66476 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Vortexians; You may recall my comments on the dangerous ideas webpage. IHMO, the idea of the antimatter generator that would fit in the trunk of an automobile fits that category. In the hands of a terrorist, it would give new meaning to car bomb. With that on the back burner, I read the post on the Isodual nature of anitmatter book. A steady stream of antimatter particles impacting any kind of matter would be an excellent power generator. The reaction produces hard radiation, so it would be inherently limited to industrial facilities, which would be a good thing. . I have no idea what isodual means, I'm also wondering about a conversion of say milligrams to kilo calories or BTU s. I'm going to recommend that my friend purchase a copy of the book, even though it is a bit spendy. --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 19 05:09:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1JD0On9011166; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 05:00:34 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1JD0MBF011135; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 05:00:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 05:00:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=EdAXXwCXA+6XizWSiG555cz+WFoQTE+S/4JsrmfdSRFfF+oVWugpg9FYbQcoeffY; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006201913010365@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: "jonesb9" , "knagel" Subject: Re: Primordial Electronium Sources Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 06:00:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940eb34e3d350f4a9abeecbb50de0e13b1d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.16 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66477 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I ordered a $16.99 5 inch black & white 12 volt, D battery or 120 AC, portable TV from Amazon to see if killing the vertical deflection coils (it should be magnetic deflection requiring disconnecting at least one wire) and applying a small dc voltage to the vertical coil to displace the horizontal sweep line upward a couple of inches shows any hint of the Electronium particle. If a faint line appears about 1.4 to 1.73 inches (or sweep=line displaced distances) below this line at the same time for a 2 to 3 electron mass Electronium (e*-) or (Ps-) particle, it should exist in any atom (not committed to any particular "orbit") and account for many CF-OU-LENR-CANR phenomena. Rule-of-thumb for CRT voltage, is one kilovolt per diagonal inch, thus up to 5 kilovolts for this unit. To get 2 - 5 kilovolts it should have a flyback transformer excited off the horizontal oscillator circuitry. Masking the displaced line should allow viewing in a darkened room. The Earth's Natural radioactivity, nuclear reactors, and Cosmic radiation should also produce the (e*-) or (Ps-) Electronium particle (e+ e- e-) a bound state version of the "Positronium Anion" reported in the literature. Fred http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/0052/more.html Crab Nebula and the Vela supernova remnants These images show the region of space around two rapidly rotating neutron stars in the Crab Nebula (left) and the Vela (right) supernova remnants. A magnetized, rapidly rotating neutron star produces electric voltages of several quadrillion volts. Particles are pulled off the neutron star and accelerated to speeds near the speed of light. A blizzard of electrons and anti-matter electrons, or positrons, is produced by these particles. The jets, and rings are thought to be caused by this process. The images have been scaled so that the ring structures will be in the right proportion to their actual size. The inner Crab ring is 1 light year in diameter; in Vela it is 0.1 light year) http://www.pparc.ac.uk/frontiers/latest/feature.asp?article=23F5&style=feature 3 - Dark matter discovered at last? SPI images made of the sky at a gamma ray energy of 511 keV – the signature of antimatter (electron-positron) annihilation – have discovered that about 15 billion tonnes of positrons are annihilated every second in the central bulge region of the Galaxy. The emission extends over a region of several degrees, and when the intensity is compared to the weaker 511-keV emission along the Galactic plane, the emission in the bulge cannot be readily explained as a byproduct of stellar nuclear processes. One exciting possibility is that these huge numbers of positrons come from the annihilation of low-mass dark matter particles and their antiparticles. ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
I ordered a $16.99 5 inch black & white 12 volt, D battery or 120 AC, portable TV from Amazon
to see if killing the vertical deflection coils (it should be magnetic
deflection requiring disconnecting at least one wire) and applying a small dc voltage to the vertical coil to displace
the horizontal sweep line upward a couple of inches shows any hint of the Electronium particle.
 
If a faint line appears about 1.4 to 1.73 inches (or sweep=line displaced distances)
below this line at the same time for a 2 to 3 electron mass Electronium (e*-) or (Ps-) particle,
it should exist in any atom (not committed to any particular "orbit") and account
for many CF-OU-LENR-CANR phenomena.
 
Rule-of-thumb for CRT voltage, is one kilovolt per diagonal inch, thus
up to 5 kilovolts for this unit. To get 2 - 5 kilovolts it should have a flyback transformer
excited off the horizontal oscillator circuitry.
 
Masking the displaced line should allow viewing in a darkened room.
 
The Earth's Natural radioactivity, nuclear reactors, and Cosmic radiation
should also produce the (e*-) or (Ps-) Electronium particle (e+ e- e-) a bound
state version of the "Positronium Anion" reported in the literature.
 
Fred
 
 
Crab Nebula and the Vela supernova remnants
These images show the region of space around two rapidly rotating neutron stars in the Crab Nebula (left) and the Vela (right) supernova remnants. A magnetized, rapidly rotating neutron star produces electric voltages of several quadrillion volts. Particles are pulled off the neutron star and accelerated to speeds near the speed of light. A blizzard of electrons and anti-matter electrons, or positrons, is produced by these particles. The jets, and rings are thought to be caused by this process. The images have been scaled so that the ring structures will be in the right proportion to their actual size. The inner Crab ring is 1 light year in diameter; in Vela it is 0.1 light year)
 
 
3 - Dark matter discovered at last?
SPI images made of the sky at a gamma ray energy of 511 keV – the signature of antimatter (electron-positron) annihilation – have discovered that about 15 billion tonnes of positrons are annihilated every second in the central bulge region of the Galaxy. The emission extends over a region of several degrees, and when the intensity is compared to the weaker 511-keV emission along the Galactic plane, the emission in the bulge cannot be readily explained as a byproduct of stellar nuclear processes. One exciting possibility is that these huge numbers of positrons come from the annihilation of low-mass dark matter particles and their antiparticles.
 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 19 09:13:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1JH4D4c010845; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 09:04:24 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1JH4BaC010822; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 09:04:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 09:04:11 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <004e01c63576$7c16f450$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Subject: ...ain't it heavy Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 09:04:02 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004B_01C63533.6D83B470" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66478 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C63533.6D83B470 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [subtitled] Survival is fine, but satisfaction is rough... For nearly 15 years, experimenters and commentators have been interested = in determining the range of *quantifiable* explanations for the = NON-reproducibility which is seen in LENR electrolysis and glow = discharge experiments.=20 Oops, for all those years... we may have been missing something. >From shortly after the P&F announcement, promising experiments even at = MIT (for a while) are reputed to show excess heat and even nuclear = transmutation of electrodes - but only "on-occasion" and not = "on-demand." This is the root cause for engrained skepticism as the = physics-skeptic always... and I do mean always... sees the cup as "half = empty" instead of half-full. Physics demands 100% reproducibility. = Alchemy does not. Locating ALL of the quantifiable explanation for this lack of 100% = reproducibility might be extremely important in the coming few years, = should funding for an Edisonian-type effort, on the national level, ever = becomes available - and that funding "surprise" may come sooner rather = than later. Even this cynic believes that. The "writing on the wall" relative to the increasingly chilling = implications of 'Peak Oil' are now visible to almost everyone, including = the plodders with their blinders firmly attached (at DoE). Many = "experts" had assumed that the quick rise in oil from 20 to 60 dollars = per barrel was a temporary thing, and would subside back to normal = market dynamics. Nope. Hubbert's curve (as interpreted by economists) is = all about the perversion of normal market dynamics in a partially = "controlled" market, where demand is essentially inflexible and supply = is not. Many did not realize that implication. This time next year, it will = surprise few of the more cynical among us, if the price of oil is $100 = or even $200. That can happen easily under the Hubbert scenario = (although $200 is more likely for the year 2008 if we cannot substitute = oxygenated fuels (from biomass and coal) fast enough. As for the other option... Most of this attention at finding the roots = of NON-reproducibility of LENR has previously been focused on the = electrode surface such as Pd (or sometimes Ti or Ni or W) metal of the = electrodes - and of course the possibility of active impurities, such as = lithium or boron in ppm quantities. In the early days impurities were = especially prevalent in Pd, which has been noted but not positively = optimized ... and/or the electrode surface treatment. That investigative = route of focusing on the electrode has given some valuable insight into = what is going on - but not yet provided a satisfactory answer to = NON-reproducibility.=20 Totally neglected, up to now, has been the role of the heavy isotope of = oxygen: O-18 (18O) - which is more ubiquitous in nature than many = realize. It is 15 time more prevalent in natural water than is = deuterium, for instance. Bet you didn't know that. This isotope could = have gone under the radar because the 16O variety of the gas is = especially stable in nuclear terms - so why look further? There has been zero side-by-side testing of this possibility. There is = some supposedly "O-18 enriched" water available from a company = advertising on the web specifically as a supplier of such an enriched = product, which will be marketed in the USA as a health gimmick, but it = is not here yet and the enrichment is not great. Otherwise the stuff is = rather expensive (in high purity) and I haven't been able to convince = anyone to try it in comparative side-by-side experiments, because of the = high cost and the fact that double enrichment (i.e. "real heavy" water = D2-18O is not sold as such). It seems that the particular company with the O18 health product is not = science-based and they are not willing to provide any real data. Terry = has provide the cite for the expensive variety, but who can afford it? : http://www.isotope.com/cil/products/listproducttypes.cfm?prodtypeid=3D32 However, when inexpensive, slightly enriched O18 water becomes available = here, it would be interesting to compare it in liter quantities against = "eau de municipal' or even heavy water, especially in glow experiments - = and I hope Graneau, for one, will try it against his "rain water". Even = if the enrichment is only double or triple, it might be "telling" in a = Graneau arc discharge. AND... there is always the further (faint) possibility that O-18 is the = under-appreciated difference (active isotope) in LENR work, more so the = glow discharge than the low voltage electrolysis - or at least, it could = be a strong contributing difference in any higher voltage electrolysis = experiment with variable results - since it is always there in water in = such a substantial ratio. Perhaps - (speculation alert) in addition to = the extra neutrons, 18O is also more attractive to a "third" active or = transitory particles such as electronium, positronium, muons or = monopoles. Only an extremely large R&D budget can determine those = issues. Oxygen of both isotopic varieties, in molecules, certainly has = an enormous magnetic moment for an element which has no unpaired = electrons, which is an anomaly in itself. Anyway.... Even in *natural light water* 18O is of about 15 time greater in natural = abundance than is even a single deuterium substitution (HDO) and yet = ...in a situation where heavy water is used - it may or may not be there = at all - depending on the technique used to enrich the heavy water for = deuterium. Usually the O18 is reduced in ratio compared to the natural = abundance - not more - as you do NOT want this stuff in reactors, = because of its higher neutron capture cross-section. Actually, the cross-section data on oxygen can be deceiving as the = thermal cross section for 18O is not that high, but it has a much higher = cross section for gamma photoneutron loss - which then results in 17O, = which is the real culprit. 17O has a cross section which is 100,000 = times higher for thermals. That is the problem. You cannot use an 18O = enriched water in a reactor because of this two step process leading to = neutron capture. Yet, most (99+%) of all manufactured heavy water is = made for **only** for that specific use (reactors). I have been told by an ex-CANDU engineer, that they could have made the = heavy water for their reactors for "pennies on the dollar" using waste = heat fractionalization (compared to the chemical method) except that the = cheap way also enriched the heavy oxygen. IOW the steam = fractionalization technique (cheap way) apparently would enrich both = elements over natural ratios. This is counter productive.=20 The practical result today is that most heavy water is *depleted* in 18O = but some heavy water is "real heavy" and some is not - depending on = whether it was produced for reactors or not (most is). Unfortunately. = for such an important subject, there is a paucity of information on the = web specifically for 18O in a nuclear context. And if you are the = purchaser of heavy water from an "alternative" source, you may have no = idea what the 18O content of it should be. The interesting thing for LENR is this. If you are using heavy water and = do not know whether or not the 18O component has been enriched or not, = then that could be a major problem IF the isotope 18O is active, in a = particular situation (and particularly for a stimulated beta decay). An = accelerated beta decay of this isotope to nitrogen could go unnoticed as = the nitrogen isotope is stable and ubiquitous itself. In a light water experiment, where there is at least five atom of 18O = "available" per every atom of 16O and that is naturally available, and = the energy content of an accelerated beta decay is likely to be about = 100,000 times greater than chemical energy, then this alone could easily = provide an apparent heat OU with a COP of 1-10 for very long periods = even if all atoms of water are given the same input energy. This would = be totally hidden except possibly to CR-film if you could get it close = enough. Some details: The Vienna Standard Mean Ocean Water (VSMOW) standard, which is = supposedly 'official' and says that sea water is 99.984426 atom % 1H, = 0.015574 atom % 2H (D), 18.5 x 10^-16 atom % 3H . Oxygen isotopes in air have 8, 9 or 10 neutrons: 16O accounts for 99.76% = while 17O 0.04%=20 and 18O 0.2 % are heavy. OK that is 2 atoms per thousand in air are heavy or about 4 molecules = per thousand have one heavy atom. In water this varies greatly by the = source of water but the rule of thumb is .5% heavy oxygen in sea water - = that is: 5 molecules per thousand contain the heavy O isotope in sea = water (which is naturally enriched by constant evaporation over geologic = time) but less in terrestrial water (probably back to the 2-4 per = thousand), while for deuterium it is less than two parts per ten = thousand atoms - but since water has two hydrogens, then eight in every = 10,000 molecules has at lest one deuterium.=20 ERGO as to the relative proportion: "heavy O water" containing the 18O = isotope is about 5/.32 or 15+ times more likely to be found in any = given molecule of sea water than is a single deuteron (HDO). =20 The range of molecular weight for most water is from 18 (1H216O) up to = 22(2H218O) which is very substantial in terms of a high ration and them = implication of being amenable to fractional distillation, for enrichment = in a few steps. Different vapor pressure is significant H216O 10% > HDO = 1% > 1H218O Result: Fractionation occurs marginally during evaporation = and condensation and is cumulative over time. Continuous evaporation from a water body (e.g. ocean water) means the = remaining water is enriched with H218O & HDO. Lighter molecules are = preferentially evaporated. In plants, the leaves are particularly are = enriched due to osmotic processes - and in evergreen plants, even more = so. I will leave the comments on the health benefits of this to the = cadre of marketeers who are just now tuning into the latest gimmick = (doesn't mean that it is isn't true)/ BTW - Atmospheric water vapor (especially in hurricanes) is only = slightly depleted in 'heavies' with respect to sea water, but may be = enriched compared to surface water - since far more vapor comes from the = oceans than from inland water especially if there is mechanical = agitation.=20 Consequently, one can make no good conclusion about the relative = enrichment of "rain water" - nor to 18O being actively subject to = accelerated beta decay during hurricanes if lightning is present (isn't = it always)=20 For the experimenter, substituting purified salt water should provide = some enrichment in O-18 (and possibly other active ingredients as well) = and water derived from plant material should provide even more. And some = mineral water - if purified from real hot springs, should be high. Evian = used to be from hot springs but this is no longer the case. Collecting the water condensate from a few tons of Holly-leaf would be = nice for the Graneau arc, and I am going to stop by the Calistoga plant = the next time I am up that way to see if they have any water with = guaranteed 18O enrichment. Not that I am into health fads or anything, = but the Cartesian approach (to the possibility of divinity) applies to = far more than theology! Jones ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C63533.6D83B470 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
[subtitled] Survival is fine, but satisfaction = is=20 rough...
 
For nearly 15 years, experimenters and=20 commentators have been interested in determining the range of=20 *quantifiable* explanations for the NON-reproducibility which is seen in = LENR=20 electrolysis and glow discharge experiments.
 
Oops, for all those years... we may have been = missing=20 something.
 
From shortly after the P&F announcement, = promising=20 experiments even at MIT (for a while) are reputed to show excess = heat and=20 even nuclear transmutation of electrodes - but only "on-occasion" and = not=20 "on-demand." This is the root cause for engrained skepticism as the = physics-skeptic always... and I do mean always... sees the cup as = "half=20 empty" instead of half-full. Physics demands 100% reproducibility. = Alchemy=20 does not.
 
Locating ALL of the quantifiable explanation for = this lack=20 of 100% reproducibility might be extremely important in the coming few = years,=20 should funding for an Edisonian-type effort, on the national = level, ever=20 becomes available - and that funding "surprise" may come = sooner rather=20 than later. Even this cynic believes that.
 
The "writing on the wall" relative = to the=20 increasingly chilling implications of 'Peak Oil' are now visible to = almost=20 everyone, including the plodders with their blinders firmly attached (at = DoE).=20 Many "experts" had assumed that the quick rise in oil from 20 to 60 = dollars per=20 barrel was a temporary thing, and would subside back to normal market = dynamics.=20 Nope. Hubbert's curve (as interpreted by economists) is all about the = perversion=20 of normal market dynamics in a partially "controlled" market, where = demand is=20 essentially inflexible and supply is not.
 
Many did not realize that implication. This time = next=20 year, it will surprise few of the more cynical among us, if = the price=20 of oil is $100 or even $200. That can happen easily under the Hubbert = scenario=20 (although $200 is more likely for the year 2008 if we cannot substitute=20 oxygenated fuels (from biomass and coal) fast enough.
 
As for the other option... Most of this = attention at=20 finding the roots of NON-reproducibility of LENR has previously been = focused on=20 the electrode surface such as Pd (or sometimes Ti or Ni or W) metal of = the=20 electrodes - and of course the possibility of active impurities, = such as=20 lithium or boron in ppm quantities. In the early days impurities=20 were especially prevalent in Pd, which has been noted but = not=20 positively optimized ... and/or the electrode surface treatment. = That=20 investigative route of focusing on the electrode has given some valuable = insight=20 into what is going on - but not yet provided a satisfactory answer to=20 NON-reproducibility.
 
Totally neglected, up to now, has been the = role of=20 the heavy isotope of oxygen: O-18 (18O) - which is more ubiquitous = in=20 nature than many realize. It is 15 time more prevalent in natural=20 water than is deuterium, for instance. Bet you didn't know that. = This=20 isotope could have gone under the radar because the 16O variety of the = gas is=20 especially stable in nuclear terms - so why look further?
 
There has been zero side-by-side = testing of this=20 possibility. There is some supposedly "O-18 enriched" water available = from a=20 company advertising on the web specifically as a supplier of such=20 an enriched product, which will be marketed in the USA as a health = gimmick,=20 but it is not here yet and the enrichment is not great. Otherwise the = stuff is=20 rather expensive (in high purity) and I haven't been able to = convince=20 anyone to try it in comparative side-by-side experiments, because of the = high=20 cost and the fact that double enrichment (i.e. "real heavy" water D2-18O = is not=20 sold as such).
 
It seems that the particular company with the = O18 health=20 product is not science-based and they are not willing to provide = any real=20 data. Terry has provide the cite for the expensive variety, but who can = afford=20 it? :
http://www.isotope.com/cil/products/listproducttypes.cfm?prodtyp= eid=3D32
 
However, when inexpensive, = slightly enriched O18=20 water becomes available here, it would be interesting to compare it in = liter=20 quantities against "eau de municipal' or even heavy water,=20 especially in glow experiments - and I hope Graneau, for = one, will try=20 it against his "rain water". Even if the enrichment is only double = or=20 triple, it might be "telling" in a Graneau arc discharge.
 
AND... there is always the further (faint) = possibility=20 that O-18 is the under-appreciated difference (active isotope) in LENR = work,=20 more so the glow discharge than the low voltage electrolysis - or at = least, it=20 could be a strong contributing difference in any higher = voltage=20 electrolysis experiment with variable results - since it is always = there in=20 water in such a substantial ratio. Perhaps - (speculation alert) in = addition to the extra neutrons, 18O is also more attractive to = a=20 "third" active or transitory particles such as electronium, positronium, = muons=20 or monopoles. Only an extremely large R&D budget can determine = those=20 issues. Oxygen of both isotopic varieties, in molecules, certainly has = an=20 enormous magnetic moment for an element which has no unpaired electrons, = which=20 is an anomaly in itself. Anyway....
 
Even in *natural light water* 18O is = of about 15=20 time greater in natural abundance than is even a single deuterium = substitution=20 (HDO) and yet ...in a situation where heavy water is used - it may or = may not be=20 there at all - depending on the technique used to enrich the heavy = water=20 for deuterium. Usually the O18 is reduced in ratio compared to = the=20 natural abundance - not more - as you do NOT want this stuff in = reactors,=20 because of its higher neutron capture cross-section.
 
Actually, the cross-section data on oxygen can = be=20 deceiving as the thermal cross section for 18O is not that high, but it = has a=20 much higher cross section for gamma photoneutron loss - which then = results in=20 17O, which is the real culprit. 17O has a cross section which is 100,000 = times=20 higher for thermals. That is the problem. You cannot use an 18O enriched = water=20 in a reactor because of this two step process leading to neutron=20 capture. Yet, most (99+%) of all manufactured heavy water is = made for=20 **only** for that specific use (reactors).
 
I have been told by an ex-CANDU engineer, that = they could=20 have made the heavy water for their reactors for "pennies on the dollar" = using=20 waste heat fractionalization (compared to the chemical method) = except that=20 the cheap way also enriched the heavy oxygen.  IOW=20 the steam fractionalization technique (cheap way) apparently would = enrich both=20 elements over natural ratios. This is counter=20 productive. 
 
The practical result today is that most = heavy water=20 is *depleted* in 18O but some heavy water is "real heavy" and some is = not -=20 depending on whether it was produced for reactors or not (most is).=20 Unfortunately. for such an important subject, there is a paucity of = information=20 on the web specifically for 18O in a nuclear context. And if you are the = purchaser of heavy water from an "alternative" source, you may have no = idea what=20 the 18O content of it should be.
 
The interesting thing for LENR is this. If you = are using=20 heavy water and do not know whether or not the 18O component has been = enriched=20 or not, then that could be a major problem IF the isotope 18O is active, = in a=20 particular situation (and particularly for a stimulated beta decay). An=20 accelerated beta decay of this isotope to nitrogen could go unnoticed as = the=20 nitrogen isotope is stable and ubiquitous itself.
 
In a light water experiment, where there is at=20 least five atom of 18O "available" per every atom of 16O and = that is=20 naturally available, and the energy content of an = accelerated beta=20 decay is likely to be about 100,000 times greater than chemical energy, = then=20 this alone could easily provide an apparent heat OU with a COP of 1-10 = for very=20 long periods even if all atoms of water are given the same input energy. = This=20 would be totally hidden except possibly to CR-film if you could get it = close=20 enough.
 
Some details:
 
The Vienna Standard Mean Ocean=20 Water (VSMOW) standard, which is = supposedly=20 'official' and says that  sea water is 99.984426 atom % 1H, = 0.015574=20 atom % 2H (D), 18.5 x 10^-16 atom % 3H .

Oxygen isotopes in air have 8, 9 or 10 = neutrons:=20 16O accounts for 99.76% while 17O 0.04%
and 18O 0.2 % are=20 heavy.
 
OK that is 2 atoms per thousand in air are heavy = or about=20 4 molecules per thousand have one heavy atom. In water this varies = greatly by=20 the source of water but the rule of thumb is .5% heavy oxygen in sea = water -=20 that is: 5 molecules per thousand contain the heavy O isotope in sea = water=20 (which is naturally enriched by constant evaporation over geologic time) = but=20 less in terrestrial water (probably back to the 2-4 per thousand), while = for=20 deuterium it is less than two parts per ten thousand atoms - but since = water has=20 two hydrogens, then eight in every 10,000 molecules has at lest one = deuterium.=20
 
ERGO as to the relative = proportion: "heavy O=20 water" containing the 18O isotope is about 5/.32 or 15+ times =  more=20 likely to be found in any given molecule of sea water than is a single = deuteron=20 (HDO).
         
The = range=20 of molecular weight for most water is from 18 (1H216O) up to 22(2H218O) = which is=20 very substantial in terms of a high ration and them implication of = being=20 amenable to fractional distillation, for enrichment in a few = steps.=20 Different vapor pressure is significant H216O 10% > = HDO =20  1% > 1H218O  Result: Fractionation occurs marginally = during=20 evaporation and condensation and is cumulative over time.

Continuous evaporation from a water body = (e.g. ocean=20 water) means the remaining water is enriched with H218O & HDO. = Lighter=20 molecules are preferentially evaporated. In plants, the leaves are = particularly=20 are enriched due to osmotic processes - and in evergreen plants, = even more=20 so. I will leave the comments on the health benefits of this to the = cadre of=20 marketeers who are just now tuning into the latest gimmick (doesn't mean = that it=20 is isn't true)/
 
BTW - Atmospheric water vapor (especially in = hurricanes)=20 is only slightly depleted in 'heavies' with respect to sea water, but = may be=20 enriched compared to surface water - since far more vapor comes = from the=20 oceans than from inland water especially if there is mechanical = agitation.=20
 
Consequently, one can make no good conclusion = about the=20 relative enrichment of "rain water" - nor to 18O being actively = subject to=20 accelerated beta decay during hurricanes if lightning is present (isn't = it=20 always)
 
For the experimenter, substituting purified salt = water=20 should provide some enrichment in O-18 (and possibly other active = ingredients as=20 well) and water derived from plant material should provide even more. = And some=20 mineral water - if purified from real hot springs, should be high. Evian = used to=20 be from hot springs but this is no longer the case.
 
Collecting the water condensate from a few tons = of=20 Holly-leaf would be nice for the Graneau arc, and I am going to stop by = the=20 Calistoga plant the next time I am up that way to see if they have any = water=20 with guaranteed 18O enrichment. Not that I am into health fads or = anything,=20 but the Cartesian approach (to the possibility of divinity) applies to = far more=20 than theology!
 
Jones
------=_NextPart_000_004B_01C63533.6D83B470-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 19 09:20:19 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1JHBQPv016315; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 09:11:37 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1JHBOva016264; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 09:11:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 09:11:24 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060219120028.03551520@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 12:11:07 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Entropy Compensation for Random Pads In-Reply-To: References: <99886622-3CE8-4762-8254-3361C5C990CF@mtaonline.net> <43F7DB1C.3010507@pobox.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66479 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: >Here's a thought about use of pseudo-random number generators in >gambling machines. The sequence of random numbers is predetermined >once a seed is chosen. It is thus possible to select a seed in >advance which guarantees no payoffs until a certain point. In other >words, it can be possible to rig the payoffs so there is no risk at >all to the machine owner provided he resets his seed value periodically. These machines are very carefully monitored by experts who are state employees. The machines have to pay out a certain percent and they have to keep a record. If a given machine did not pay out regularly, this anomalous performance would be spotted. The software in them is carefully vetted. I do not know the details, but if they do use pseudo-random numbers I am sure they are seeded by the real time clock, which is the standard procedure to ensure "real" randomness starting midway through the sequence, obviously. I think the seed is based on the current millisecond, so that the actual time of day cannot affect the performance. Slot machine software and hardware is much better regulated and much more tightly controlled than voting machine software. Voting machines are so badly designed, and the software is so sloppy and amateur they are a joke. They are standing invitation to any half-wit hacker to steal an election. They are so bad that during a test, computer experts at Johns Hopkins was able to break into the machine over a phone line, alter the results of a dummy election, and erase all trace of their activities . . . in about five minutes. See, for example: http://avirubin.com/vote/response.html - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 19 09:30:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1JHLMJG027352; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 09:21:32 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1JHLKYb027323; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 09:21:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 09:21:20 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <005c01c63578$e5234780$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <004e01c63576$7c16f450$6401a8c0@NuDell> Subject: Re: ...ain't it heavy Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 09:21:17 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0059_01C63535.D69BC770" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66480 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0059_01C63535.D69BC770 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In the previous piece, I was a bit too hasty (as always) and dependent = on supposition for the detail involving the thermal cross-section data. = This is not relevant to the main point of the posting, but should be = addressed. Obviously giving up a neutron to photofission and recapturing = it later, is net zero exchange. Consequently, I have not yet been able = to determine exactly why you cannot use 18O (real heavy water) in the = CANDU reactors (other than the anecdotal assurance of a retired = engineer). If anyone has the correct answer, I would appreciate hearing = it. Jones ------=_NextPart_000_0059_01C63535.D69BC770 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In the previous piece, I was a bit too hasty (as always) and = dependent on=20 supposition for the detail involving the thermal cross-section data. = This is not=20 relevant to the main point of the posting, but should be addressed. = Obviously=20 giving up a neutron to photofission and recapturing it later, is net = zero=20 exchange. Consequently, I have not yet been able to determine exactly = why you=20 cannot use 18O (real heavy water) in the CANDU reactors (other = than=20 the anecdotal assurance of a retired engineer). If anyone has the = correct=20 answer, I would appreciate hearing it.
 
Jones
------=_NextPart_000_0059_01C63535.D69BC770-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 19 10:46:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1JIkGH3030644; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 10:46:16 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1JIk7Ua030581; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 10:46:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 10:46:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060219120028.03551520@mindspring.com> References: <99886622-3CE8-4762-8254-3361C5C990CF@mtaonline.net> <43F7DB1C.3010507@pobox.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060219120028.03551520@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <80D25DA6-DD2F-449E-901D-842CC5722E60@mtaonline.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Entropy Compensation for Random Pads Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 09:46:00 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66481 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Feb 19, 2006, at 8:11 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > Horace Heffner wrote: > >> Here's a thought about use of pseudo-random number generators in >> gambling machines. The sequence of random numbers is >> predetermined once a seed is chosen. It is thus possible to >> select a seed in advance which guarantees no payoffs until a >> certain point. In other words, it can be possible to rig the >> payoffs so there is no risk at all to the machine owner provided >> he resets his seed value periodically. > > These machines are very carefully monitored by experts who are > state employees. The machines have to pay out a certain percent and > they have to keep a record. If a given machine did not pay out > regularly, this anomalous performance would be spotted. The > software in them is carefully vetted. A winning pay-out is *expected*. Keeping records thus won't show a thing, because the expected is always happening. See The advantage to a pseudo-random number generator, especially one with a small cycle, like those which are commonly in use on windows programs hindered by 32 bit registers, is that it can be pre-tested to *guarantee* no run of bad luck for the machine owner. That is even true regardless the starting seed because the entire sequence can be tested. There are RNG algorithms that can use 32 bit registers to generate sequences of length near 2^32 instead of 2^16, but for some reason they don't seem to be in common use. I don't know what kind of RNG is in common use in gambling machines however. > I do not know the details, but if they do use pseudo-random numbers > I am sure they are seeded by the real time clock, which is the > standard procedure to ensure "real" randomness starting midway > through the sequence, obviously. I think the seed is based on the > current millisecond, so that the actual time of day cannot affect > the performance. No, a timer based seed is only selected once at power on, if then. If there is an external source of random numbers then the additional transformation provided by a pseudo-random number generator provides no additional randomness. I've read that use of this fact was made by some enterprising individuals that bought a video poker machine and reverse assembled the ROM (though I have no reference so it could be an urban legend?) They found out what RNG was used and then figured out how to determine where in the cycle the RNG was by observing play of a normal machine in a casino. From that point on they could predict every hand. > > Slot machine software and hardware is much better regulated and > much more tightly controlled than voting machine software. Voting > machines are so badly designed, and the software is so sloppy and > amateur they are a joke. They are standing invitation to any half- > wit hacker to steal an election. They are so bad that during a > test, computer experts at Johns Hopkins was able to break into the > machine over a phone line, alter the results of a dummy election, > and erase all trace of their activities . . . in about five > minutes. See, for example: > > http://avirubin.com/vote/response.html > > - Jed I could not agree more. Our young men and women bleed and die for freedom and then the press and government officials frivol it away under the pressure of vendors hocking their wares, and in the cause of expediency, looking good, meeting news deadlines and party celebration schedules. There is no substitute for physical ballots that can be verified by the voter before going into the ballot box, and, if need be, later manually recounted by election workers overseen by neutral observers. I think most of the blame for this problem lies with reporters who are either too stupid or too lazy to understand these issues. I can tell you from first hand experience that few people understand these issues, including almost all election officials, but it is the reporters who are *responsible* to make the effort to understand and report these issues, and most of all, to not be the principle part of the problem. It is a sacred duty. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 19 11:13:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1JIqjFq003018; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 10:54:05 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1JIqhhs002996; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 10:52:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 10:52:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <006c01c63581$f04b2e30$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <004e01c63576$7c16f450$6401a8c0@NuDell> Subject: Re: ...ain't it heavy Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 10:26:01 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66482 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Errata # 2 >In a light water experiment, where there is at least five atom of >18O "available" per every atom of 16O ... That should read: "In a light water experiment using desalted seawater, there are 5 atoms of 18-O per 1000 atoms of 16-O" IOW the natural ratio of the 18O istope in seawater is .5% of 5 per 1000. The ratio can be much higher in "fossil ice". From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 19 13:47:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1JKd4f1012736; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 12:40:25 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1JKcutc012629; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 12:38:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 12:38:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 15:38:48 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C803AB9EFF6C65-1624-1F792@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Dual Rotor Wind Turbine Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.65 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66483 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A few of these little 1 kW jobberdos will get you off the grid. . . well, that and a good battery: http://www.dualrotor.com/ Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 19 13:47:55 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1JKdbDo013163; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 12:40:57 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1JKdRq0013036; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 12:39:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 12:39:27 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060219140311.0357bbb8@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 14:25:59 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Entropy Compensation for Random Pads In-Reply-To: <80D25DA6-DD2F-449E-901D-842CC5722E60@mtaonline.net> References: <99886622-3CE8-4762-8254-3361C5C990CF@mtaonline.net> <43F7DB1C.3010507@pobox.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060219120028.03551520@mindspring.com> <80D25DA6-DD2F-449E-901D-842CC5722E60@mtaonline.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66484 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: >A winning pay-out is *expected*. Keeping records thus won't show a >thing, because the expected is always happening. I do not follow what you mean here. Keeping a record ensures that the machine is paying out the expected amounts daily. (Assuming the record itself has not been hacked -- and there are way to check on this.) >See This document is interesting, but it seems be stating the obvious. I do not think there are any educated people who gamble yet are unaware of these facts. I should think everyone knows casinos are wealthy because they always win in the end. >No, a timer based seed is only selected once at power on, if then. Well this should be changed. >If there is an external source of random numbers then the additional >transformation provided by a pseudo-random number generator provides >no additional randomness. Frankly I do not see a problem with the present system. Hypothetically a person using a slot machine could bring in a computer, record the results, and then search through the sequence of pseudorandom numbers to find out what the next payout will be. In actual fact, if you set up a computer in a Las Vegas casino and start recording performance, the guards will throw you out in no time. For actual human users, slot machines are effectively random devices. No one, including the house owners, can take advantage of the fact that they are not actually random. >I've read that use of this fact was made by some enterprising >individuals that bought a video poker machine and reverse assembled >the ROM (though I have no reference so it could be an urban >legend?) They found out what RNG was used and then figured out how >to determine where in the cycle the RNG was by observing play of a >normal machine in a casino. From that point on they could predict every hand. I do not see how they could this without a computer. The entire list of numbers generated by any RNG is too long for anyone to memorize. You have to have the computer look it up. That should not be difficult, but as I said, and the house Goon Squad would intervene. It sounds like an urban myth to me. This reminds me of the book "The Eudaemonic Pie," about a group of people who learned how to win at roulette by employing a wearable computer, controlled by their feet. This probably would have worked, but the house Goons quickly saw what they were up to and threw them out. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 19 13:54:40 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1JKkMSg017144; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 12:47:43 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1JKkKN3017117; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 12:46:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 12:46:20 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00a301c63595$8902f730$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <004e01c63576$7c16f450$6401a8c0@NuDell> Subject: Re: ...ain't it heavy Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 12:46:18 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66485 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Latest errata: "AND... there is always the further (faint) possibility that O-18 is the under-appreciated difference [sole or contributory active isotope] in LENR work, more so in the glow discharge regime than the low voltage electrolysis - or at least, it could be a strong contributing difference [to excess heat] in any higher voltage electrolysis experiment with variable results - since it is always there in water in such a substantial ratio" ...should be... [18O] "can be present with an un-noticed but substantially variable ratio" IOW... whereas some deuterium is always present in even light water, most heavy water is depleted in 18O - but not always. There, the ratio (O18/O16) can be enormously variable. Yet, even in light water, the percentage is widely variable depending on the source of water, and will increase over time if the electrolyte is being reused (i.e. in an LENR cell which does not employ recombination such as Mizuno's, the electrolyte is recycled over and over again). Next errata : ...the suspected (low energy) nuclear reactions involving 18O. This is interesting and there is again a paucity of good info on the www. I was wrong to suggest a beta decay going to nitrogen. Not possible. However there are many other possibilities... but it is best to limit this to beta/EC decay since these are so easy to go un-noticed. One reaction which is within the range of 'most-likely' possibilities (for showing excess heat and no gammas) begins with either an EC or beta+ positron emission decay to take the target to fluorine (which reaction is gamma-less) ... and best of all, this type of reaction should be amenable to accelerated decay in a high (negative) voltage situation, whereas beta decay would be retarded. This decay can even be followed by a cyclical beta decay reversion back to the original oxygen - this (complete cycle) enables the nucleus to dump excess metastable energy. But since the cycle is both gamma-less and has no long-lived transmutation products, it will go un-noticed. Does 18O have this kind known of metastability? Not sure, but there is some tantalizing affirmative evidence for it in the literature. And even if previously unknown, that does not mean the suggested modality is not falsifiable. CR-39 can possibly be configured to detect this and there are other possible signatures, since 18F has such a predictable half-life (in the hundred minute range). Any LENR researcher noticing a repeatable variability in the range of 110 minutes in delta-T parameters and ESPECIALLY a heat-after-death episode which decreases with a half-life which is consistent with a 110 minute decay product, should consider this as an explanation - even as far out as it may sound at first. The easiest cross-check is to run two side-by-side cells, one with 18O enrichment. BTW - I know of at least one heat-after-death episode which is consistent with a 110 minute half life and others which may be - if more details were known. And if you are the lucky/diligent researcher to find that 18O is at least contributory isotope to excess heat in an experiment... be sure to credit you-know-who when you are accepting the big prize.... Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 19 17:41:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1K0Rn4Y022583; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 16:29:09 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1K0Rl2m022558; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 16:27:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 16:27:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <4949B23A-38D4-4C8E-94C1-88CEE1949145@mtaonline.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Chandler's wobble Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 10:10:28 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66489 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have received private inquiries with regard to: > http://www.huttoncommentaries.com/Special/MandvllePoleShift/ > PolarMotionAnomolies73-Now.htm and the possibility of magnetic effects and magnetic solar magnetic field reversal causing the Earth's wobble. For some insight, take a look at: http://maia.usno.navy.mil/xplot1.gif We have a beat frequency |F1 - F2| of about 1/(7 years) and summed frequency of |F1 + F2| of about 1/(0.9 years). This gives frequencies: F1 - F2 = 0.1429 y^-1 F1 + F2 = 1.1111 y^-1 2F1 = 1.2539 y^-1 F1 = 0.6270 y^-1 F2 = 0.4841 y^-1 and the precession periods: P1 = 1.585 y P2 = 2.066 y The fact there exists a near zero minimum in a beat frequency merely means the amplitudes of the things beating are nearly the same. This looks like it might be due to a couple interacting black hole like bodies to me. This was in my posts and is also in: http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/EarthWobble.pdf There could easily be an error in this speculation and the calculations! It is indeed interesting that Chandler's Wobble and the Sun Spot cycle are at minimums, at least momentarily. I don't see a correlation offhand, but I have spent too little time on any of this to be sure of anything. However, the angular momentum data (gravimagnetic induction data, as opposed to the wobble data) is not at a minimum, and in fact indicates to me we are approaching a major event. The sun's magnetic field is very weak out here near Earth. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_magnetic_field It says: "Electric currents induced in the ionosphere also generate magnetic fields. Such a field is always generated near where the atmosphere is closest to the Sun, causing daily alterations which can deflect surface magnetic fields by as much as one degree." Also: "If space were a vacuum, then the Sun's 10-4 tesla magnetic dipole field would reduce with the cube of the distance to about 10^-11 tesla. But satellite observations show that it is about 100 times greater at around 10^-9 tesla." Earth's magnetic dipole moment is about 8x10^22 A m^2 according to: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/magfields.html (not necessarily an authoritative source!) So, what kind of torque on the Earth? The torque on the earth is at most (10^-9 tesla)(8x10^22 A m^2) = 8x10^13 N m. This is miniscule compared to the gravimagnetic (or other) torque required to account for the precession of the Earth, which is 4.26x10^21 N m. The sunspot cycle certainly does not seem correlate well with changes in Earth's Angular momentum (gravimagnetic induction). See: http://science.msfc.nasa.gov/ssl/pad/solar/sunspots.htm This shows solar minimums roughly during: 1878, 1888, 1901, 1912, 1923, 1934, 1945, 1954, 1965, 1976, 1987, 1995, 2006? Solar maximums are roughly 1883,1894, 1905, 1916, 1927, 1937, 1948, 1958, 1969, 1980, 1990, 2001. As far as I can see these do not correlate well in magnitude or timing with the angular velocity changes (assumed due to gravimagnetic induction) shown in Table 3. Yr dt(Yrs) W dW (dW/dt)*1000 1696 0 151 1725 29 151.4 +0.40 +13.8 1752 27 151.2 -0.20 -7.4 1797 45 152.3 +0.10 +2.2 1811 14 151.42 -0.88 -62.9 1827 16 152.73 +1.31 +81.9 1846 19 151.12 -1.61 -84.7 1867 21 153.91 +2.79 +132.8 1887 20 151.50 -2.41 -120.5 1891 4 151.96 +0.46 +115.0 1912 21 148.18 -3.78 -180.0 1934 22 151.53 +3.35 +152.2 1945 11 150.28 -1.25 -113.6 1988 43 150.35 +0.07 +1.6 1993 8 149.47 -0.88 -110.0 Table 3 - Extreme angular velocity points I could easily be wrong, but I just don't see a strong magnetic influence. On the other hand, maybe gravimagnetic field fluctuations are the cause of sun spot cycles. The influence of the ambient gravimagnetic field on the sun would be enormous, though it doesn't seem to correlate well. A Fourier analysis is needed to check this out. One problem is having a method to measure just what the current gravimagnetic influence is on a short term basis. Gravity probe B would be the way to do that, and they just shut it down. Too bad we aren't supposed to hear about it until early next year. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 19 17:43:55 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1JN080m004060; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 16:31:13 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1JLsFb2005211; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 13:54:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 13:54:15 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060219140311.0357bbb8@mindspring.com> References: <99886622-3CE8-4762-8254-3361C5C990CF@mtaonline.net> <43F7DB1C.3010507@pobox.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060219120028.03551520@mindspring.com> <80D25DA6-DD2F-449E-901D-842CC5722E60@mtaonline.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20060219140311.0357bbb8@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Entropy Compensation for Random Pads Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 12:52:47 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66486 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Feb 19, 2006, at 10:25 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > This document is interesting, but it seems be stating the obvious. > I do not think there are any educated people who gamble yet are > unaware of these facts. I should think everyone knows casinos are > wealthy because they always win in the end. Most educated people understand that casinos win on average but don't have a clue the odds of *their* getting fleeced in just a few days. Most educated people don't know anything about random walk analysis or even that having a limited purse makes their individual bets dependent events with respect to when they go broke. >> No, a timer based seed is only selected once at power on, if then. > > Well this should be changed. Yes indeed. In fact, pseudo-random number generators should not be used at all. >> If there is an external source of random numbers then the >> additional transformation provided by a pseudo-random number >> generator provides no additional randomness. > > Frankly I do not see a problem with the present system. The problem is that the outcome from a pseudo-random number generator over the full RNG cycle is fully deterministic, and it can be checked in advance that there will be no unexpected string of wins. This is not true of true games of chance. I'll have to agree that this likely does not make any difference in the final outcome, which is, with dramatically increasing probability as bets are made, the bettor ends up broke. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 19 17:51:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1JNo8ZJ013145; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 16:38:23 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1JMepLq024535; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 14:40:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 14:40:51 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <9711DA78-3DA0-43BE-8791-86DE6DE52D71@mtaonline.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Chandler's wobble Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 13:39:16 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66487 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have received private inquiries with regard to: > http://www.huttoncommentaries.com/Special/MandvllePoleShift/ > PolarMotionAnomolies73-Now.htm and the possibility of magnetic effects and magnetic solar magnetic field reversal causing the Earth's wobble. For some insight, take a look at: http://maia.usno.navy.mil/xplot1.gif We have a beat frequency |F1 - F2| of about 1/(7 years) and summed frequency of |F1 + F2| of about 1/(0.9 years). This gives frequencies: F1 - F2 = 0.1429 y^-1 F1 + F2 = 1.1111 y^-1 2F1 = 1.2539 y^-1 F1 = 0.6270 y^-1 F2 = 0.4841 y^-1 and the precession periods: P1 = 1.585 y P2 = 2.066 y The fact there exists a near zero minimum in a beat frequency merely means the amplitudes of the things beating are nearly the same. This looks like it might be due to a couple interacting black hole like bodies to me. This was in my posts and is also in: http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/EarthWobble.pdf There could easily be an error in this speculation and the calculations! It is indeed interesting that Chandler's Wobble and the Sun Spot cycle are at minimums, at least momentarily. I don't see a correlation offhand, but I have spent too little time on any of this to be sure of anything. However, the angular momentum data (gravimagnetic induction data, as opposed to the wobble data) is not at a minimum, and in fact indicates to me we are approaching a major event. The sun's magnetic field is very weak out here near Earth. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_magnetic_field It says: "Electric currents induced in the ionosphere also generate magnetic fields. Such a field is always generated near where the atmosphere is closest to the Sun, causing daily alterations which can deflect surface magnetic fields by as much as one degree." Also: "If space were a vacuum, then the Sun's 10-4 tesla magnetic dipole field would reduce with the cube of the distance to about 10^-11 tesla. But satellite observations show that it is about 100 times greater at around 10^-9 tesla." Earth's magnetic dipole moment is about 8x10^22 A m^2 according to: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/magfields.html (not necessarily an authoritative source!) So, what kind of torque on the Earth? The torque on the earth is at most (10^-9 tesla)(8x10^22 A m^2) = 8x10^13 N m. This is miniscule compared to the gravimagnetic (or other) torque required to account for the precession of the Earth, which is 4.26x10^21 N m. The sunspot cycle certainly does not seem correlate well with changes in Earth's Angular momentum (gravimagnetic induction). See: http://science.msfc.nasa.gov/ssl/pad/solar/sunspots.htm This shows solar minimums roughly during: 1878, 1888, 1901, 1912, 1923, 1934, 1945, 1954, 1965, 1976, 1987, 1995, 2006? Solar maximums are roughly 1883,1894, 1905, 1916, 1927, 1937, 1948, 1958, 1969, 1980, 1990, 2001. As far as I can see these do not correlate well in magnitude or timing with the angular velocity changes (assumed due to gravimagnetic induction) shown in Table 3. Yr dt(Yrs) W dW (dW/dt)*1000 1696 0 151 1725 29 151.4 +0.40 +13.8 1752 27 151.2 -0.20 -7.4 1797 45 152.3 +0.10 +2.2 1811 14 151.42 -0.88 -62.9 1827 16 152.73 +1.31 +81.9 1846 19 151.12 -1.61 -84.7 1867 21 153.91 +2.79 +132.8 1887 20 151.50 -2.41 -120.5 1891 4 151.96 +0.46 +115.0 1912 21 148.18 -3.78 -180.0 1934 22 151.53 +3.35 +152.2 1945 11 150.28 -1.25 -113.6 1988 43 150.35 +0.07 +1.6 1993 8 149.47 -0.88 -110.0 Table 3 - Extreme angular velocity points I could easily be wrong, but I just don't see a strong magnetic influence. On the other hand, maybe gravimagnetic field fluctuations are the cause of sun spot cycles. The influence of the ambient gravimagnetic field on the sun would be enormous, though it doesn't seem to correlate well. A Fourier analysis is needed to check this out. One problem is having a method to measure just what the current gravimagnetic influence is on a short term basis. Gravity probe B would be the way to do that, and they just shut it down. Too bad we aren't supposed to hear about it until early next year. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 19 18:56:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1K1m4tB002536; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 17:49:28 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1K1lvAN002459; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 17:47:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 17:47:57 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060219120028.03551520@mindspring.com> References: <99886622-3CE8-4762-8254-3361C5C990CF@mtaonline.net> <43F7DB1C.3010507@pobox.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060219120028.03551520@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <788C589A-6CCD-4809-A8C9-B525605F1D93@mtaonline.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Entropy Compensation for Random Pads Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 10:30:44 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66490 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Some relevant links: http://www.developer.com/java/other/article.php/10936_616221_3 http://robison.casinocitytimes.com/articles/455.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slot_machine And a good RNG doesn't guarantee good application: http://www.developer.com/java/other/article.php/10936_616221_2 Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 19 19:07:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1K1x5bu010141; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 18:00:26 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1K1wog4009964; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 17:58:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 17:58:50 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <3B9ED93F-1624-4256-9943-7426EC0330D1@mtaonline.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Entropy Compensation for Random Pads Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 16:57:13 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66491 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Feb 19, 2006, at 2:53 PM, Harry Veeder wrote: > Horace Heffner wrote: > >> >> >> The problem is that the outcome from a pseudo-random number generator >> over the full RNG cycle is fully deterministic, and it can be checked >> in advance that there will be no unexpected string of wins. This is >> not true of true games of chance. I'll have to agree that this >> likely does not make any difference in the final outcome, which is, >> with dramatically increasing probability as bets are made, the bettor >> ends up broke. >> >> Horace Heffner >> > > Is unexpected string of loses ever a concern? > > Harry > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 19 19:41:40 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1K2Wn3p010535; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 18:34:09 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1K2Wkan010501; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 18:32:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 18:32:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Entropy Compensation for Random Pads Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 17:31:11 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66492 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Feb 19, 2006, at 2:53 PM, Harry Veeder wrote: > Horace Heffner wrote: > >> >> >> The problem is that the outcome from a pseudo-random number generator >> over the full RNG cycle is fully deterministic, and it can be checked >> in advance that there will be no unexpected string of wins. This is Wins here means player wins. >> not true of true games of chance. I'll have to agree that this >> likely does not make any difference in the final outcome, which is, >> with dramatically increasing probability as bets are made, the bettor >> ends up broke. >> >> Horace Heffner >> > > Is unexpected string of loses ever a concern? I'm sure it would concern the loser! 8^) If I were designing a game to maximize revenue I would want to be sure sufficient positive reinforcement is provided to sustain the behavior. The ideal game would evenly spread out the wins and losses through time while maintaining the casino edge. A sustained period of losses could put off a gambler for a long time, especially a new one. Even without any artificial leveling due to random number generator generation means, many casino games work very effectively to accomplish this in subtle ways anyway. Any added advantage from a game leveling RNG in a computer game is thus not really necessary. I would expect such an RNG leveling advantage may exist for casinos though not even by design. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 19 19:54:01 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1K2htPR019075; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 18:45:17 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1K2hYcP018784; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 18:43:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 18:43:34 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <43F80387.2020005@usfamily.net> References: <43F80387.2020005@usfamily.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <4DA377DB-0AC2-4BB2-B591-0016604115FE@mtaonline.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Isodual nature of anitmatter Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 17:41:57 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66493 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Feb 18, 2006, at 8:35 PM, thomas malloy wrote: > Vortexians; > > You may recall my comments on the dangerous ideas webpage. IHMO, > the idea of the antimatter generator that would fit in the trunk of > an automobile fits that category. In the hands of a terrorist, it > would give new meaning to car bomb. With that on the back burner, I > read the post on the Isodual nature of anitmatter book. A steady > stream of antimatter particles impacting any kind of matter would > be an excellent power generator. The reaction produces hard > radiation, so it would be inherently limited to industrial > facilities, which would be a good thing. It is extremely unlikely that an antimatter generating device that can generate net useful power and fits in the trunk of a car will be developed. > . I have no idea what isodual means, I'm also wondering about a > conversion of say milligrams to kilo calories or BTU s. Just multiply kg by c^2 to get joules and then convert units 1 milligram = 1x10^-6 kg The energy in 1 milligram of antimatter is the energy of converting 2 milligrams of matter to energy. One mg of antimatter provides 170 million BTU. > I'm going to recommend that my friend purchase a copy of the book, > even though it is a bit spendy. I would be very surprised if it provided any practical means to produce energy. It sounds like just a lot of complex theory. Let us know how it goes. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Feb 19 21:15:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1K0UZtO027033; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 20:06:18 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1JNwXJf016202; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 15:58:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 15:58:33 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 18:53:30 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: Entropy Compensation for Random Pads In-reply-to: To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: <0RbJdC.A.E9D.oYQ-DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66488 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > > > The problem is that the outcome from a pseudo-random number generator > over the full RNG cycle is fully deterministic, and it can be checked > in advance that there will be no unexpected string of wins. This is > not true of true games of chance. I'll have to agree that this > likely does not make any difference in the final outcome, which is, > with dramatically increasing probability as bets are made, the bettor > ends up broke. > > Horace Heffner > Is unexpected string of loses ever a concern? Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 20 03:06:50 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1K9vW6U030580; Mon, 20 Feb 2006 01:58:52 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1K9vTe7030554; Mon, 20 Feb 2006 01:57:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 01:57:29 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <65F3BDF9-B6B9-4DED-B116-EE4572D0A688@mtaonline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Horace Heffner Subject: DNS block list Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 23:35:21 -0900 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66495 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I keep getting this message when attempting to respond to Robin: ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- (reason: 451 Mail from this IP address blocked due to DNS block list.) Looks like I'm on a spammer list. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 20 03:12:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1KA3ouL006459; Mon, 20 Feb 2006 02:05:11 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1KA3kxN006372; Mon, 20 Feb 2006 02:03:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 02:03:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=jZz0QkKjMjfJghDrGSFR56qjmTdyx3IKkqJnyM0BjDMJrvhojyQ7tEF57+8uSX2B; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006212010339700@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Synchrotron Radiation & ZPE? Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 03:03:39 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94077db66242e979ba84b26be407403810e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.153 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66496 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Oops. W = q^2a^2/6(pi)(eo)c^3 * [1- (v^2/c^2)]^- 4 (joule-second) ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 2/20/2006 2:50:20 AM Subject: Re: Synchrotron Radiation & ZPE? When Kaons +/-, Pions+/-, and Muons +/- decay to electrons +/-, in the Neutron Star-Galactic Center creation-annihilation cycle, is the Synchrotron Radiation energy given off pervading the Universe as a ZPE spectrum? The Larmor Equation for accelerated charge: W = q^2a^2/6(pi)(eo)c^3 * [1- v^2/c^2]^-1/4 (joules/second?) http://www.newtonphysics.on.ca/magnetic/mass.html Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
 
Oops.
 
W  = q^2a^2/6(pi)(eo)c^3 * [1- (v^2/c^2)]^- 4  (joule-second)
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 2/20/2006 2:50:20 AM
Subject: Re: Synchrotron Radiation & ZPE?

When Kaons +/-, Pions+/-, and Muons +/- decay to electrons +/-, in the
Neutron Star-Galactic Center creation-annihilation cycle, is
the Synchrotron Radiation energy given off pervading
the Universe as a ZPE spectrum?
 
The Larmor Equation for accelerated charge:
 
W  = q^2a^2/6(pi)(eo)c^3 * [1- v^2/c^2]^-1/4  (joules/second?)
 
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 20 04:06:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1KAA9BC010478; Mon, 20 Feb 2006 02:59:09 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1K9oYUs021435; Mon, 20 Feb 2006 01:50:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 01:50:34 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=gynKZlPjK5yFy4gnJIfBXFOTpd0G09FQC3f8HnDzHfoC2XQrlAsTxlECtC0M3Hk2; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006212095025598@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Synchrotron Radiation & ZPE? Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 02:50:25 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940818c0ec69d8dba11aa1a97325a307314350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.153 Resent-Message-ID: <7xLgxD.A.iOF.oDZ-DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66494 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII When Kaons +/-, Pions+/-, and Muons +/- decay to electrons +/-, in the Neutron Star-Galactic Center creation-annihilation cycle, is the Synchrotron Radiation energy given off pervading the Universe as a ZPE spectrum? The Larmor Equation for accelerated charge: W = q^2a^2/6(pi)(eo)c^3 * [1- v^2/c^2]^-1/4 (joules/second?) http://www.newtonphysics.on.ca/magnetic/mass.html Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
When Kaons +/-, Pions+/-, and Muons +/- decay to electrons +/-, in the
Neutron Star-Galactic Center creation-annihilation cycle, is
the Synchrotron Radiation energy given off pervading
the Universe as a ZPE spectrum?
 
The Larmor Equation for accelerated charge:
 
W  = q^2a^2/6(pi)(eo)c^3 * [1- v^2/c^2]^-1/4  (joules/second?)
 
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 20 06:42:14 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1KDWtf5018828; Mon, 20 Feb 2006 05:34:18 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1KDNGxM013450; Mon, 20 Feb 2006 05:23:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 05:23:16 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=pacbell.net; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=F+d7NxaUYLTfR1hS69QimYvmHQpIrSsNH27uACKNRoR6+LKk4ATqKBbdFJG+psDyWp9161MZyN2ARDGdcdsIfMgU0/27+iV3JUJJQbIKWjjFx+wJHbg0Ektzy+f9g6VeiMtFJ34S9vriTJ/HbqNNUMOrqBM4PAClCH06BaddU7Q= ; Message-ID: <20060220132311.95085.qmail@web81106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 05:23:11 -0800 (PST) From: Jones Beene Subject: Re: ...ain't it heavy To: vortex-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <00a301c63595$8902f730$6401a8c0@NuDell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <4gFrEC.A.-RD.DLc-DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66497 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Latest errata: Apologies for getting almost all of the hypothetical nulcear reactions involving 18O dyslexically garbled. However, the only saving grace of that foray into disinformation is that there could be a 18O --> 18F --> 18O fluorine connection in all of this - more on that speculative detail later. The main points are these: 1) 18O may be an unappreciated reactant in LENR, especially Mizuno-type glow discharges and other HV regimes. It is 15 times more common in water than deuterium, and its reality is an anomaly in itself, considering the remarkable nuclear stability of 16O, 2) Side-by-side cells using water depleted in 18O vs.water enriched in 18O should be determinative of this. 3) If there is a greater heat anomaly with an enriched isotope, then the question: How can 18O could be involved ? is an open issue. It does not necessaruily need to be a nuclear process, but if it is -then it may involve metastable allotropes and gammless fluorine-cycling. Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 20 07:27:14 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1KEFok8005581; Mon, 20 Feb 2006 06:17:10 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1KEFmoR005559; Mon, 20 Feb 2006 06:15:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 06:15:48 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 09:15:42 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8043F449C1586-AF0-1C79E@mblkn-m03.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <43F80387.2020005@usfamily.net> <4DA377DB-0AC2-4BB2-B591-0016604115FE@mtaonline.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <4DA377DB-0AC2-4BB2-B591-0016604115FE@mtaonline.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Isodual nature of anitmatter Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.67 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k1KEFk39005530 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66499 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status:   >I have no idea what isodual means, Applying both Newonian and Quantum algebraic analysis to antimatter: http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/9705001 Classical isodual theory of antimatter Authors: R. M. Santilli Comments: 25 pages, Latex Report-no: IBR-TH-97-S037, Feb. 155, 1997 Subj-class: General Physics An inspection of the contemporary physics literature reveals that, while matter is treated at all levels of study, from Newtonian mechanics to quantum field theory, antimatter is solely treated at the level of second quantization. For the purpose of initiating the restoration of full equivalence in the treatments of matter and antimatter in due time, in this paper we present a classical representation of antimatter which begins at the primitive Newtonian level with expected images at all subsequent levels. By recalling that charge conjugation of particles into antiparticles is anti-automorphic, the proposed theory of antimatter is based on a new map, called isoduality, which is also anti-automorphic, yet it is applicable beginning at the classical level and then persists at the quantum level. As part of our study, we present novel anti-isomorphic isodual images of the Galilean, special and general relativities and show the compatibility of their representation of antimatter with all available classical experimental knowledge, that on electromagnetic interactions. We also identify the prediction of antigravity for antimatter in the field of matter (or vice-versa) without any claim on its validity, and defer its resolution to specific experiments. To avoid a prohibitive length, the paper is restricted to the classical treatment which had not been sufficiently treated until now. Studies on operator profiles, such as the equivalence of isoduality and charge conjugation and the implication of the isodual theory in particle physics, are conducted in a separate paper. ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 20 07:38:18 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1KEQflJ014427; Mon, 20 Feb 2006 06:28:02 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1KEQZVP014365; Mon, 20 Feb 2006 06:26:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 06:26:35 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=lHY+ZguF9grvtodPCvtJHvGtURdPTAg+wr7e02l3wLaENBL44taC9Wn4B11iH4Bp; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220062120142617984@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Kaonium (Protons) & Electronium Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 07:26:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9403969fa3d2121f162312496898eba96bf350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.231 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66500 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII With "15 Billion tonnes of Positrons being annihilated every second" near a Neutron Star or the "Bulge" at the center of our Galaxy where energies of "several Quadrillion eV" are involved, most likely pairs of 550 MeV Kaons are being produced also. The Kaon + and Kaon - can either annihilate like positrons and electrons, or they can couple to a Kaon + of another pair to form a stable Triad (The Proton) with a rest mass of 936 Mev with the 720 Mev "mass defect" given off as gamma ray energy with the "odd-man-out" Kaon - rapidly decaying to an electron, thus forming the Hydrogen Atom. Conversely, the Kaon + and Kaon - can form a stable Triad with a Kaon - of another pair and form a 936 Mev (AntiProton) with 720 MeV binding energy, with the "odd-man-out" Kaon + rapidly decaying to a positron. The leftover "ash" from this pair creation-annihilation cycle is the material universe as we know it, except for the antimatter that Thomas is carrying around in the trunk of his car. Positrons and Electrons from Pair Production should form Electronium (*e-) in our universe or (*e+) in Thomas Malloy's Universe/Universal Joint. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII  
With "15 Billion tonnes of Positrons being annihilated every second"
near a Neutron Star or the "Bulge" at the center of our Galaxy where
energies of "several Quadrillion eV" are involved, most likely
pairs of 550 MeV Kaons are being produced also.
 
The Kaon + and Kaon -  can either annihilate like positrons
and electrons, or they can  couple to a Kaon +  of another pair to form a stable
Triad  (The Proton) with a rest mass of 936 Mev with the 720 Mev "mass defect"
given off as gamma ray energy with the  "odd-man-out" Kaon -
rapidly decaying to an electron, thus forming the Hydrogen Atom.
 
Conversely, the Kaon + and Kaon - can form a stable Triad with
a Kaon - of another pair and form a 936 Mev (AntiProton) with
720 MeV binding energy, with the "odd-man-out" Kaon + rapidly decaying to a positron.
 
The leftover "ash" from this pair creation-annihilation cycle is the material universe
as we know it, except for the antimatter that Thomas is carrying around in the trunk of his car.
 
Positrons and Electrons from Pair Production should form Electronium (*e-)
in our universe or (*e+) in Thomas Malloy's Universe/Universal Joint. 
 
Fred
 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 20 07:45:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1KEYToF018494; Mon, 20 Feb 2006 06:35:55 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1KEYNBQ018439; Mon, 20 Feb 2006 06:34:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 06:34:23 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060220093039.03401448@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 09:32:10 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: DNS block list In-Reply-To: <65F3BDF9-B6B9-4DED-B116-EE4572D0A688@mtaonline.net> References: <65F3BDF9-B6B9-4DED-B116-EE4572D0A688@mtaonline.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66501 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: >I keep getting this message when attempting to respond to Robin: > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > > (reason: 451 Mail from this IP address blocked due to DNS block >list.) > > >Looks like I'm on a spammer list. Yes. You and/or Robin need to send a message to the ISP or whoever maintains their list. This may be caused by a spammer spoofing your return address. Be glad they are telling you. Some of them simply drop the message without informing anyone. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 20 08:48:41 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1KFawiD010105; Mon, 20 Feb 2006 07:38:22 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1KFauJ3010082; Mon, 20 Feb 2006 07:36:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 07:36:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=dgRPNtKhilhovhsYWMP1MmYuQnLk9WSHux7lli0Oe1MOkrwZn8TmDieQrtYscQrZ; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200621209134558@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Kaonium (Protons) & Electronium Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 02:01:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940af2428a3d91be24c699049a734dcc2c6350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.12 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66503 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII With "15 Billion tonnes of Positrons being annihilated every second" near a Neutron Star or the "Bulge" at the center of our Galaxy where energies of "several Quadrillion eV" are involved, most likely pairs of 550 MeV Kaons are being produced also. The Kaon + and Kaon - can either annihilate like positrons and electrons, or they can couple to a Kaon + of another pair to form a stable Triad (The Proton) with a rest mass of 936 Mev with the 720 Mev "mass defect" given off as gamma ray energy with the "odd-man-out" Kaon - rapidly decaying to an electron, thus forming the Hydrogen Atom. Conversely, the Kaon + and Kaon - can form a stable Triad with a Kaon - of another pair and form a 936 Mev (AntiProton) with 720 MeV binding energy, with the "odd-man-out" Kaon + rapidly decaying to a positron. The leftover "ash" from this pair creation-annihilation cycle is the material universe as we know it, except for the antimatter that Thomas is carrying around in the trunk of his car. Positrons and Electrons from Pair Production should form Electronium (*e-) in our universe or (*e+) in Thomas Malloy's Universe/Universal Joint. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
With "15 Billion tonnes of Positrons being annihilated every second"
near a Neutron Star or the "Bulge" at the center of our Galaxy where
energies of "several Quadrillion eV" are involved, most likely
pairs of 550 MeV Kaons are being produced also.
 
The Kaon + and Kaon -  can either annihilate like positrons
and electrons, or they can  couple to a Kaon +  of another pair to form a stable
Triad  (The Proton) with a rest mass of 936 Mev with the 720 Mev "mass defect"
given off as gamma ray energy with the  "odd-man-out" Kaon -
rapidly decaying to an electron, thus forming the Hydrogen Atom.
 
Conversely, the Kaon + and Kaon - can form a stable Triad with
a Kaon - of another pair and form a 936 Mev (AntiProton) with
720 MeV binding energy, with the "odd-man-out" Kaon + rapidly decaying to a positron.
 
The leftover "ash" from this pair creation-annihilation cycle is the material universe
as we know it, except for the antimatter that Thomas is carrying around in the trunk of his car.
 
Positrons and Electrons from Pair Production should form Electronium (*e-)
in our universe or (*e+) in Thomas Malloy's Universe/Universal Joint. 
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 20 09:39:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1KEK9bc007711; Mon, 20 Feb 2006 07:53:09 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1KDwbt0018358; Mon, 20 Feb 2006 05:58:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 05:58:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 08:53:20 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8043C246775D5-2310-22E4E@mblkn-m04.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <65F3BDF9-B6B9-4DED-B116-EE4572D0A688@mtaonline.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <65F3BDF9-B6B9-4DED-B116-EE4572D0A688@mtaonline.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: DNS block list Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.68 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k1KDwW1E018266 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66498 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Not just you, your entire domain: mtaonline.net It usually means someone in your domain has done a good bit of spamming. It has happened to my bellsouth.net domain before. Terry -----Original Message----- From: Horace Heffner To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 23:35:21 -0900 Subject: DNS block list I keep getting this message when attempting to respond to Robin:      ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----      (reason: 451 Mail from this IP address blocked due to DNS block list.)    Looks like I'm on a spammer list.    Horace Heffner    ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 20 10:06:03 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1KGltS6001401; Mon, 20 Feb 2006 08:49:30 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1KGlDf0000910; Mon, 20 Feb 2006 08:47:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 08:47:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=pacbell.net; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Pxsf9tdmHRHHyRyPBDynzNiMY2IwcubIFtC2YQOdyNu2urm4QPZJ1Gw9j3jVFlEJrDlQoCNDbmamE619ZvJmIeznskESSv9l8rYhAhvsNP3RPDZVMw/qASzEw+NDaQcvkKDHvNTIuno3A3X5nO5PtXcB0oYtnsYvwohjcBKZZcY= ; Message-ID: <20060220164706.37849.qmail@web81109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 08:47:06 -0800 (PST) From: Jones Beene Subject: Mo'n Eight Paths to CF To: vortex-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <8C804474112E114-11D4-23C3E@mblkn-m17.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <2eBEfC.A.9N.QKf-DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66504 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --- hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote: Don't get behind the "eight ball" Terry... there's more than a dozen, even a laigniappe...and still counting.... want to add a few more? In a few days we should be pushin' twirty (even after eliminating overlap) . This article you mention can serve as the jumping-off point for a more thororugh (and less self-serving) listing of the OU phenomena which are avialable at low energy.... many of which may not involve fusion at all - and some may involve fusion as a secondary "balance-sheet" adjustment for supplying the energy already removed by ZPE processes. Alas... none of them have much more than anecdotal validity, but hey, that's what we're here for. > http://www.belairsky.com/coolbit/fileforyou/eightfoldway-towardsCF.PDF > http://tinyurl.com/qn96w 1. Coulomb barrier reversal a) Coulomb barrier shielding b) "Coulomb Well" acceleration of +charged particle (proton deuteron postiron) 2. Antihydrogen of Santilli [most unlikely] 3. Hulten potential, Isoelectronium tunnelling a) Sparber electronium tunneling b) Quantum foam tunneling c) Quantum tunneling of other particles 4. Microwave resonant tunnelling ? wha'sit? 5. Barut-Vigier hydrogen electron model a) Mills' Hydrino b) de Geus hydrino 6. Kanarev plasma electrolysis [too broad a term, misnamed] a) anodic glow b) PAGD c) Mizuno glow 7. Kohn-Sham anomaly 8. Sonoluminescence, Schwinger dynamical Casimir a) Heffner AEH b) Ortho Para hydrogen oscillation (Casimir driven) 9. NMR fission 10. Oppenheimer-Phillips 'stripping' 11. Muon catalyzed fusion 12. Di-electron catalyzed fusion 13. Dirac monopole catalyzed fusion 14. Tetra-Neutron 15. 3 particle D, or carbon based (Case) catalyzed fusion 14. Craven/Letts laser catalyzed fusion 15. Terahertz resonance (triple resonance) catalyzed fusion 16. Mizuno cryogenic effect 17. Psi wave (Ghost wave) effect From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 20 10:10:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1KFhKZM013988; Mon, 20 Feb 2006 08:54:22 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1KFD1RC021492; Mon, 20 Feb 2006 07:13:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 07:13:01 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 10:12:52 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C804474112E114-11D4-23C3E@mblkn-m17.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Eight Paths to CF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.135 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66502 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: While researching Santilli's isodual approach to antimatter I came across this very interesting article: http://www.belairsky.com/coolbit/fileforyou/eightfoldway-towardsCF.PDF http://tinyurl.com/qn96w excerpt: "In this article we will discuss in an introductory level, some plausible schemes to achieve Cold Fusion in room temperature as described in literature: 1. Coulomb barrier reversal 2. Antihydrogen of Santilli 3. Hulten potential, Isoelectronium tunnelling 4. Microwave resonant tunnelling 5. Barut-Vigier hydrogen electron model 6. Kanarev?s plasma electrolysis 7. Kohn-Sham anomaly 8. Sonoluminescence, Schwinger?s dynamical Casimir energy" Enjoy! Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 20 10:45:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1KHTPAH006960; Mon, 20 Feb 2006 09:31:13 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1KHSktg006371; Mon, 20 Feb 2006 09:28:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 09:28:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <200602201726.k1KHQwDt028669@mail2.mx.voyager.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 11:26:57 -0600 From: "OrionWorks" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: svj@orionworks.com Reply-To: svj@orionworks.com Subject: Dean Kamen back in the news Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_4d04762d92a5971da7c7c7671a7d2ce8" X-Mailer: CoreComm Webmail X-IPAddress: 130.47.34.2 Resent-Message-ID: <_VKDu.A.TjB.Nxf-DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66505 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=_4d04762d92a5971da7c7c7671a7d2ce8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Vorts, FYI, Dean Kamen, aka, the Segway wonder boy is back in the news again with the unveiling of his next innovative project: Providing clean drinking water for over 1 billion inhabitants. Those who have followed Dean's career have been aware of the fact that he has been working on this project for years. How does Dean generate the electricity to run his water purifiers? Local fuel sources, of course: Cow dung! See: http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/16/technology/business2_futureboy0216/index.htm?cnn=yes or http://tinyurl.com/kacxm Here's a brief excerpt: *************************************** Kamen's goal is to produce machines that cost $1,000 to $2,000 each. That's a far cry from the $100,000 that each hand-machined prototype cost to build. Quadir is going to try and see if the machines can be produced economically by a factory in Bangladesh. If the numbers work out, not only does he think that distributing them in a decentralized fashion will be good business -- he also thinks it will be good public policy. Instead of putting up a 500-megawatt power plant in a developing country, he argues, it would be much better to place 500,000 one-kilowatt power plants in villages all over the place, because then you would create 500,000 entrepreneurs. *************************************** I like his decentralization idea. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com zazzle.com/orionworks --=_4d04762d92a5971da7c7c7671a7d2ce8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Vorts,

FYI,

Dean Kamen, aka, the Segway wonder boy is back in the news again with the u= nveiling of his next innovative project: Providing clean drinking water for= over 1 billion inhabitants. Those who have followed Dean's career have bee= n aware of the fact that he has been working on this project for years.

How does Dean generate the electricity to run his water purifiers? Local fu= el sources, of course: Cow dung!

See:

http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/16/technology/business2_futureboy0216/index.ht= m?cnn=3Dyes

or

http://tinyurl.com/kacxm


Here's a brief excerpt:


***************************************

Kamen's goal is to produce machines that cost $1,000 to $2,000 each. That's= a far cry from the $100,000 that each hand-machined prototype cost to buil= d.

Quadir is going to try and see if the machines can be produced economically= by a factory in Bangladesh. If the numbers work out, not only does he thin= k that distributing them in a decentralized fashion will be good business -= - he also thinks it will be good public policy. Instead of putting up a 500= -megawatt power plant in a developing country, he argues, it would be much = better to place 500,000 one-kilowatt power plants in villages all over the = place, because then you would create 500,000 entrepreneurs.

***************************************

I like his decentralization idea.

Regards,
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
zazzle.com/orionworks
--=_4d04762d92a5971da7c7c7671a7d2ce8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 20 15:02:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1KKUlZ3026516; Mon, 20 Feb 2006 13:54:44 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1KIibmX013060; Mon, 20 Feb 2006 10:44:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 10:44:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060220134110.03401448@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 13:43:02 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: OFF TOPIC "President's day" quote Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k1KIhClQ011313 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66506 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Quoted in the Atlanta Journal: "Allow the president to invade a neighboring nation, whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such a purpose -- and you allow him to make war at pleasure." ­ Abraham Lincoln From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 20 16:11:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1KN3HZ1027870; Mon, 20 Feb 2006 15:04:38 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1KN3DFB027819; Mon, 20 Feb 2006 15:03:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 15:03:13 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 18:03:05 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C80488F151DCB6-1F08-1599E@mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <20060220164706.37849.qmail@web81109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Mo'n Eight Paths to CF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.134 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66508 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene Don't get behind the "eight ball" Terry... <><><><><><><><> Too late, I was born there. Glad to see two or our Vorts on your list! ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 20 18:04:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1L0oud2030194; Mon, 20 Feb 2006 16:57:37 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1KNPZ2G002049; Mon, 20 Feb 2006 15:25:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 15:25:35 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 18:25:19 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C8048C0C8B41FD-1CB8-E4AA@mblkn-m19.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Startle me . . . Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.137 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66509 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: . . . fund CF research. http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/20/bush.energy.ap/index.html http://tinyurl.com/l8cz5 Saying the nation is on the verge of technological breakthroughs that would "startle" most Americans, President Bush on Monday outlined his energy proposals to help wean the country off foreign oil. ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Feb 20 19:30:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1L0oud4030194; Mon, 20 Feb 2006 18:05:41 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1KLmklM008318; Mon, 20 Feb 2006 13:48:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 13:48:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 16:38:06 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8047D124259E8-1F08-15670@mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <410-2200621209134558@earthlink.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <410-2200621209134558@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Kaonium (Protons) & Electronium Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.134 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k1KLmc6n008237 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66507 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred, You should share this with Michael Ibison at Earthtech: ibison@earthtech.org In correspondence with Scott Little this weekend, Scott said this was just the sort of thing Michael was working on. Terry -----Original Message----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 02:01:34 -0700 Subject: Re: Kaonium (Protons) & Electronium With "15 Billion tonnes of Positrons being annihilated every second" near a Neutron Star or the "Bulge" at the center of our Galaxy where energies of "several Quadrillion eV" are involved, most likely pairs of 550 MeV Kaons are being produced also.   The Kaon + and Kaon -  can either annihilate like positrons and electrons, or they can  couple to a Kaon +  of another pair to form a stable Triad  (The Proton) with a rest mass of 936 Mev with the 720 Mev "mass defect" given off as gamma ray energy with the  "odd-man-out" Kaon - rapidly decaying to an electron, thus forming the Hydrogen Atom.   Conversely, the Kaon + and Kaon - can form a stable Triad with a Kaon - of another pair and form a 936 Mev (AntiProton) with 720 MeV binding energy, with the "odd-man-out" Kaon + rapidly decaying to a positron.   The leftover "ash" from this pair creation-annihilation cycle is the material universe as we know it, except for the antimatter that Thomas is carrying around in the trunk of his car.   Positrons and Electrons from Pair Production should form Electronium (*e-) in our universe or (*e+) in Thomas Malloy's Universe/Universal Joint.    Fred ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Feb 21 04:49:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1LCmrlk024102; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 04:48:54 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1LCmpCk024082; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 04:48:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 04:48:51 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=S9tT4kzQNRimnQIz80KgINAQ7bht6Rd/i98AL0SPoYrrsix9ZrDbQj0fnQbU+0mp; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220062221124847285@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Vicarious Spaceflight Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 05:48:47 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940117d01f0de43e25a6cb734e9fa59c1e4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.36 Resent-Message-ID: <5WpVO.A.O4F.zww-DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66510 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII They don't offer a frequent flyer option yet. http://www.memorialspaceflights.com/services.asp http://www.memorialspaceflights.com/options.asp ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
They don't offer  a frequent flyer option yet.
 
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Feb 21 05:00:37 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1LD0Kuf029399; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 05:00:21 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1LD0IGf029380; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 05:00:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 05:00:18 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00c501c636e6$a85fdab0$a4b1e118@D54BYG11> Reply-To: "John Coviello" From: "John Coviello" To: "Vortex" Subject: unsubscribe Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 07:59:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C2_01C636BC.BF555530" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-SpamScore: sss X-broadbandsupportnet-MailScanner-From: johnwc@patmedia.net Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66511 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00C2_01C636BC.BF555530 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------=_NextPart_000_00C2_01C636BC.BF555530 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
------=_NextPart_000_00C2_01C636BC.BF555530-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Feb 21 09:54:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1LHn67T010103; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 09:49:11 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1LHmeZV009707; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 09:48:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 09:48:40 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: FZNIDARSIC@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 12:48:16 EST Subject: nuclear coming back To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1140544096" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5022 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66512 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1140544096 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en =20 Job Title: SENIOR NUCLEAR CORE DESIGN ENGINEER=20 Occupational Category: Architecture & Engineering=20 Job Order #: WEB610044 Posting Date: 01/11/2006=20 Location: Monroeville, PA 15146=20 Salary: $77,397.00 / year=20 Type Of Work: Full-time=20 Shift: Day=20 Job Summary: Responsible for the design, development and analysis of =20 nuclear reactor cores. Specific duties include: (1) designing, developing, =20= testing=20 and analyzing nuclear reactor cores utilizing advanced lattice physics and=20 three-dimensional nodal simulator codes; (2) providing in-core fuel managem= ent=20 support using loading pattern optimization tools; (3) undertaking nuclear=20 reactor safety analysis; and (4) providing licensing support for nuclear =20 reactors. Master's degree in Nuclear Engineering or Physics plus 5 years of=20= =20 experience in the position offered or as a Researcher, Physicist or Nuclear=20= Engineer=20 is required. Additional requirements include experience with the =20 design/development of nuclear reactor codes related to pressurized water re= actors,=20 including ANC and ROCS, as well as experience with the design/development o= f=20 advanced nuclear fuels. 40 hrs/wk, 8 a.m.=E2=80=935 p.m., $77,397/yr.=20 Education Level: Masters =20 Number of Hours: 40 per Week=20 Job Order Category: Permanent=20 -------------------------------1140544096 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en

Job Title: S= ENIOR=20 NUCLEAR CORE DESIGN ENGINEER
Occupat= ional=20 Category: Architecture & Engineering
Job Order #: WEB610044     = ;=20 Posting Date: 01/11/2006
Location: Monroeville, PA 15146
Salary: $77,397.00 / year
Type Of Work: Full-time
Shift: Day
Job=20 Summary: Responsible for the design, development and analysis of=20 nuclear reactor cores. Specific duties include: (1) designing, developing,=20 testing and analyzing nuclear reactor cores utilizing advanced lattice physi= cs=20 and three-dimensional nodal simulator codes; (2) providing in-core fuel=20 management support using loading pattern optimization tools; (3) undertaking= =20 nuclear reactor safety analysis; and (4) providing licensing support for nuc= lear=20 reactors. Master's degree in Nuclear Engineering or Physics plus 5 years of=20 experience in the position offered or as a Researcher, Physicist or Nuclear=20 Engineer is required. Additional requirements include experience with the=20 design/development of nuclear reactor codes related to pressurized water=20 reactors, including ANC and ROCS, as well as experience with the=20 design/development of advanced nuclear fuels. 40 hrs/wk, 8 a.m.=E2=80=935 p.= m.,=20 $77,397/yr.
Education Level: Masters= =20
Number of Hours: 40 per Week
Job Order Category: Permanent=20

-------------------------------1140544096-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Feb 21 13:13:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1LLDQZb021984; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 13:13:27 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1LLDPMA021970; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 13:13:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 13:13:25 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060221131300.029ee3a0@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 13:16:04 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: Is this a spoof or are these words really from "my" president? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_98780781==.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: <2_BTGC.A.NXF.0J4-DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66513 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=====================_98780781==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Thanks to Vincent Ferrar for bringing this to the attention of New Energy Times: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=1641994 "Our nation is on the threshold of new energy technology that I think will startle the American people," Bush said. "We're on the edge of some amazing breakthroughs all aimed at enhancing our national security and our economic security and the quality of life of the folks who live here in the United States." Later Monday, Bush was visiting the United Solar Ovonics Plant, which makes solar panels, in Auburn Hills, Mich., outside Detroit. The company also works on hydrogen fuel cells to power autos. "Roof makers will one day be able to make a solar roof that protects you from the elements and at the same time, powers your house," Bush said. "The vision is this that technology will become so efficient that you'll become a little power generator in your home, and if you don't use the energy you generate you'll be able to feed it back into the electricity grid." --=====================_98780781==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

Thanks to Vincent Ferrar for bringing this to the attention of New Energy Times:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=1641994

"Our nation is on the threshold of new energy technology that I think will startle the American people," Bush said. "We're on the edge of some amazing breakthroughs all aimed at enhancing our national security and our economic security and the quality of life of the folks who live here in the United States."

Later Monday, Bush was visiting the United Solar Ovonics Plant, which makes solar panels, in Auburn Hills, Mich., outside Detroit. The company also works on hydrogen fuel cells to power autos.

"Roof makers will one day be able to make a solar roof that protects you from the elements and at the same time, powers your house," Bush said. "The vision is this that technology will become so efficient that you'll become a little power generator in your home, and if you don't use the energy you generate you'll be able to feed it back into the electricity grid."


--=====================_98780781==.ALT-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Feb 21 13:46:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1LLkOLS005609; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 13:46:25 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1LLkMvs005577; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 13:46:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 13:46:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: ThomasClark123@aol.com Message-ID: <1e.550d8ab1.312ce426@aol.com> Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 16:46:14 EST Subject: Re: Isodual nature of anitmatter To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1140558374" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66514 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1140558374 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/19/2006 1:24:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, temalloy@usfamily.net writes: Vortexians; You may recall my comments on the dangerous ideas webpage. IHMO, the idea of the antimatter generator that would fit in the trunk of an automobile fits that category. In the hands of a terrorist, it would give new meaning to car bomb. Nikola Tesla built a handheld device which resonated at the Earth's resonant frequency, which he claimed could split the Earth in two. If it is this easy to build such a device then the whole Earth and every person on it would have to be monitored split second by split second to ensure that no one tired to build such a device and split the Earth in two. Tesla also claimed to have built an energy device which could send a very powerful energy beam to any planet and perhaps even further out to other star systems. If this is the case, then every planet in our solar system has to be monitored by ET'S to prevent harmful energy beams from being sent to other planets. Another book I read claimed that Earth sends magnetic energies to the sun which helps power the sun, and Earth receives magnetic energies from Jupiter which helps power Earth, so that the flow of magnetic energies between planets is important to well being of the whole solar system. If Earth becomes polluted then the magnetic energies that Earth sends out could also become polluted and damage the solar system. Earth has to remain healthy for the rest of the solar system to remain healthy. This means that E.T.'s who live on other planets have to monitor Earth. Another book I read claimed that E.T.'s from Venus and Mars invaded Earth recently, and perhaps have taken over Earth secretly. -------------------------------1140558374 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 2/19/2006 1:24:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, temalloy= @usfamily.net writes:
Vortexians;

You may recall my comments=20= on the dangerous ideas webpage. IHMO, the
idea of the antimatter generat= or that would fit in the trunk of an
automobile fits that category. In t= he hands of a terrorist, it would
give new meaning to car bomb.
Nikola Tesla built a handheld device which resonated at the Earth's res= onant frequency, which he claimed could split the Earth in two.  If it=20= is this easy to build such a device then the whole Earth and every= person on it would have to be monitored split second by split second to ens= ure that no one tired to build such a device and split the Earth in two= . 
 
Tesla also claimed to have built an energy device which could send= a very powerful energy beam to any planet and perhaps even further out= to other star systems.  If this is the case, then every planet in our=20= solar system has to be monitored by ET'S to prevent harmful energy beams fro= m being sent to other planets. 
 
Another book I read claimed that Earth sends magnetic energies to the s= un which helps power the sun, and Earth receives magnetic energies = ;from Jupiter which helps power Earth, so that the flow of magnetic energies= between planets is important to well being of the whole solar system. = If Earth becomes polluted then the magnetic energies that Earth sends out c= ould also become polluted and damage the solar system.  Earth has to re= main healthy for the rest of the solar system to remain healthy.  = This means that E.T.'s who live on other planets have to monitor Earth.&nbs= p; Another book I read claimed that E.T.'s from Venus and Mars invaded Earth= recently, and perhaps have taken over Earth secretly.
-------------------------------1140558374-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Feb 21 14:46:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1LMkF4W007662; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 14:46:15 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1LMkEQ1007650; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 14:46:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 14:46:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-IronPort-AV: i="4.02,135,1139202000"; d="scan'208"; a="1970248682:sNHT30403278" Message-ID: <24903549.1140561967902.JavaMail.root@fepweb04> Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 14:46:07 -0800 From: OrionWorks To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Is this a spoof or are these words really from "my" president? Cc: orionworks@charter.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Sensitivity: Normal Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66515 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: It can be a fascinating hobby to interpret the meaning behind our Commander in Chief's latest comments. It is, in fact, a hobby I'm equally guilty of creating my own spins as well. What does one make of the prez's statement: "...on the edge of some amazing breakthroughs all aimed at enhancing our national security and our economic security..." On the surface it certainly does seem to hint at the possibility of some amazing new AE breakthroughs that may soon become a matter of public knowledge, breakthroughs that perhaps the Bush administration is already privy to. Here's one scenario: In regards to Bush's recent AE comments someone over at the hydrino discussion group speculated on the possibility that the president (or perhaps someone high in his administration) may have discreetly visited the labs at Blacklight Power Inc. Many of us who have carefully watched recent developments at BLP are keenly aware of the fact that Dr. Mills has within the last few months made several bold statements, such as: * * * * * "Based on our current power-density, energy balance, and hardware requirements, I believe that a substation-sized unit can readily be built. "As in the past, the time frame is qualified with the condition that the world gets behind this. It will take a very long time for us to do it on our own." See: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCQM/message/133 Or, in answer to critics, Dr. Mills stated: "We'll work on a paper that gives the details of a power cell to replicate." See: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCQM/message/152 * * * * * But getting back to Bush's recent speeches, we can "spin" this kind of rhetoric endlessly precisely because it is so malleable. It was politically designed to be interpreted any way one wishes. In my view, what it really boils down to is whether Bush's recent statements were primarily designed to help bolster national confidence at a time when we as a nation are "fretting", or is his administration actually privy to knowledge the general public may not yet be aware of. Occams razor as well as past performance of the current administration tends to suggest that it likely to be the former explanation - that they remain, for the most part, clueless. However, I'm not 100% convinced of that. It really would be nice to be proven wrong on this. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.orionworks.com zazzle.com/orionworks From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Feb 21 15:07:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1LN7SPI016390; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 15:07:28 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1LN7QnC016372; Tue, 21 Feb 2006 15:07:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 15:07:26 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <003401c6373b$90c69790$94027841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: References: Subject: Re: nuclear coming back Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 17:07:19 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0031_01C63709.45BE2380" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2005-06-05) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.7 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,HTML_50_60, HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66516 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C63709.45BE2380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable With bonus our local Houston school district associate administrators = make more than 77k for part time ( 9 mos) of what some describe as work. = A Nuke engr with a masters and 5 years ojn the job can weigh in at 125 k = min, Richard ----- Original Message -----=20 From: FZNIDARSIC@aol.com=20 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 11:48 AM Subject: nuclear coming back=20 Job Title: SENIOR NUCLEAR CORE DESIGN ENGINEER=20 Occupational Category: Architecture & Engineering=20 Job Order #: WEB610044 Posting Date: 01/11/2006=20 Location: Monroeville, PA 15146=20 Salary: $77,397.00 / year=20 Type Of Work: Full-time=20 Shift: Day=20 Job Summary: Responsible for the design, development and analysis of = nuclear reactor cores. Specific duties include: (1) designing, = developing, testing and analyzing nuclear reactor cores utilizing = advanced lattice physics and three-dimensional nodal simulator codes; = (2) providing in-core fuel management support using loading pattern = optimization tools; (3) undertaking nuclear reactor safety analysis; and = (4) providing licensing support for nuclear reactors. Master's degree in = Nuclear Engineering or Physics plus 5 years of experience in the = position offered or as a Researcher, Physicist or Nuclear Engineer is = required. Additional requirements include experience with the = design/development of nuclear reactor codes related to pressurized water = reactors, including ANC and ROCS, as well as experience with the = design/development of advanced nuclear fuels. 40 hrs/wk, 8 = a.m.=E2=80=935 p.m., $77,397/yr.=20 Education Level: Masters=20 Number of Hours: 40 per Week=20 Job Order Category: Permanent=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C63709.45BE2380 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BF
With bonus our local Houston school district = associate=20 administrators make more than 77k for part time ( 9 mos) of what some = describe=20 as work. A Nuke engr with a masters and 5 years ojn the job can weigh in = at 125=20 k min,
Richard
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 FZNIDARSIC@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, February 23, = 2006 8:43=20 AM
Subject: Breaking News: Bush = says "not to=20 worry"

CNN


NEWS ALERT

Referring to debate over foreign operations = of U.S.=20 ports, President Bush says "people don't need to worry about=20 security."


See: http://www.cnn.com/

(This is not a joke) = ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C63861.E2ED1810-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 23 09:02:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1NH2H4w017214; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 09:02:18 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1NH2EjR017173; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 09:02:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 09:02:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <001801c6389a$d99bc020$eb027841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: References: <43FDE1B5.7090201@usfamily.net> Subject: Re: Dr. Tipler responds Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 11:01:54 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2005-06-05) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.8 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66552 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Howdy Thomas, I have always thought the term " antimatter " was a poor description of a " seemingly" measurable event noticed by scientists that "may " indicate something that is referred to as " antimatter".. Perhaps a more descriptive word may be " transitional" matter of better " change of phase" or even better " between the sheets" .. < grin>. Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "thomas malloy" To: Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 10:24 AM Subject: Dr. Tipler responds > Vortexians; > > Dr. Frank Tipler of Tulane Physics department sent me a copy his 68 page > paper on his theories about antimatter. He proposes some experiments to > test his ideas, I'll read it. > > > --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- > http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 23 09:42:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1NHgZRw008798; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 09:42:36 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1NHgSHs008694; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 09:42:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 09:42:28 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-IronPort-AV: i="4.02,141,1139202000"; d="scan'208"; a="1868243421:sNHT104996330" Message-ID: <5210288.1140716540132.JavaMail.root@fepweb09> Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 9:42:20 -0800 From: OrionWorks To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: My Sci-fi moon drive Cc: orionworks@charter.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Sensitivity: Normal Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66554 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: From: Harry Veeder > > A sci-fi moon drive: > > A spacecraft with the ability to selectively shield itself from Earth's > Gravity, so the Moon's gravity "pulls" the craft towards it. > > Harry Didn't H. G. Wells in his novel "First Men in the Moon" come up with this idea? Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 23 09:56:16 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1NHtpDG017161; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 09:55:52 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1NHfmj8008146; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 09:41:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 09:41:48 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=pacbell.net; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=q7lnnzfwGNjzABQmtes2FVbhAfK5n1AerS7S7ViE0DENsspxj+hLZZ2wQeOJtPRdgnGxYrFur190kiD1b8+1MSQ7XE5gBnZwivp/lTzLdKB0inyU4b/Akw+CLUCh4Vs2FOvsghNUvo0fMzE1cJQBzVWuYLwxjpNn5TVCpjEbTZo= ; Message-ID: <20060223174138.10378.qmail@web81106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 09:41:38 -0800 (PST) From: Jones Beene Subject: Re: Breaking News: Bush says "not to worry" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <000c01c63894$2e620990$eb027841@xptower> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <5--dAB.A.7-B.bPf_DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66553 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Well, W might be somewhat concerned about the Bush-extended-family economic security more than anything else. That is probably the crux of the 'port' issue. Don't forget that Marvin Bush, W's bro, is the family liason to the Arab world, and most of the future for the Bush family is tied up in joint investments with them. This could be worth several $billion to the Bush family long term - most of it hidden from view several layers deep in MidEast banks. More details below... --- RC Macaulay wrote: > Howdy Jed, > I don't believe the American people are worried > about Dubya's security. He is secure. Wez woried > about OUR security. > Richard. According to two articles written by Margie Burns, from 1993 to 2000, Mrvin Bush served on the board of Securacom (since renamed Stratesec). The chairman of the board of Stratesec is Wirt D. Walker III, a cousin of Marvin and George W. Bush. Marvin is now hiden deeper from public view but handles nothing but joint investments with MidEast interests. Securacom had contracts to provide security for Dulles International Airport (the airport from which American Airlines Flight 77, which crashed into the Pentagon, originated) and the World Trade Center in New York and both the Airlines involved. Securacom's backers include a number of Kuwaitis through a company called KuwAm Corp (Kuwaiti-American Corp.). Many of the short trades prior to 9/11 are suspected to have arisen either directly from Securacoms backers and perhaps were placed from these offices. The short trading was not investigated and the profits were not claimed - supposedly. The trail of evidence must have been too clear to follow for them to claim the short trading profits. Stratesec has Saudi and UAE and other Arab investors. Walker also serves as a managing director of KuwAm, which maintains offices within the Watergate complex along with Riggs Bank, on whose board Bush's uncle, Jonathan Bush, sits. Saudi Princess Haifa al Faisal, the wife of Saudi Ambassador to the US Prince Bandar, used a Riggs account to funnel money to Omar al Bayoumi and Osama Basnan, two Saudi students in California associated with two of the 911 hijackers. It is very common in the Arab world for business contracts to be handled through close relatives of those in public office, so naturally any Arab investor would turn to Marvin Bush for advice, and naturally give him a piece of the action. Now as to the port security and Marvin... does he have a piece of that action ?? ...stay tuned for another Breaking News story from Vo-International... a division of Central Services From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 23 10:06:03 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1NI5dYd023167; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 10:05:39 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1NHpIk1014039; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 09:51:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 09:51:18 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: "John Steck" To: Subject: RE: Breaking News: Bush says "not to worry" Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 11:51:03 -0600 Message-ID: <000001c638a1$b7dc5c40$5c5e10ac@eDentsply.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6386F.6D445D40" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000c01c63894$2e620990$eb027841@xptower> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66555 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6386F.6D445D40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Even while news agencies are reporting that new agencies are reporting = this story wrong, they continue to report it wrong themselves. The sky is = not falling. Do your homework before you spam more people with this = overblown nonsense. =20 Foreign companies already control large segments domestic terminal operations. The UAE holding company buying the British company in = question is regarded as the industry model for intermodal container traffic and security worldwide... UAE is neither a rogue state or a sponsor of terrorism. Having this company take over would be a significant = improvement in the current deplorable security of current US port operations in = general. And lets be clear, they would NOT be taking over the entire port, just = an isolated segment of one or more loading/unloading operations. =20 This is sensationalized Arab bigotry for the sake of ratings, nothing = more. =20 -john =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: RC Macaulay [mailto:walhalla@cvtv.net]=20 Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 10:14 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Breaking News: Bush says "not to worry" Howdy Jed, I don't believe the American people are worried about Dubya's security. = He is secure. Wez woried about OUR security. Richard. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jed Rothwell =20 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com=20 Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 8:43 AM Subject: Breaking News: Bush says "not to worry" CNN NEWS ALERT Referring to debate over foreign operations of U.S. ports, President = Bush says "people don't need to worry about security." See: http://www.cnn.com/ (This is not a joke)=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6386F.6D445D40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Even=20 while news agencies are reporting that new agencies are reporting this = story=20 wrong, they continue to report it wrong themselves.  The sky is not = falling.  Do your homework before you spam more people with this = overblown=20 nonsense.
 
Foreign companies already control large segments domestic = terminal=20 operations.  The UAE holding company buying the British = company in=20 question is regarded as the industry model for intermodal container = traffic and=20 security worldwide...  UAE is neither a rogue state or a = sponsor of=20 terrorism.  Having this company take over would be a = significant=20 improvement in the current deplorable security of current US port=20 operations in general.  And lets be clear, they would NOT be taking = over=20 the entire port, just an isolated segment of one or more=20 loading/unloading operations.
 
This=20 is sensationalized Arab bigotry for the sake of ratings, nothing=20 more.
 
-john
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: RC Macaulay=20 [mailto:walhalla@cvtv.net]
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 = 10:14=20 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Breaking = News: Bush=20 says "not to worry"

Howdy Jed,
I don't believe the American people = are worried=20 about Dubya's security. He is secure. Wez woried about OUR=20 security.
Richard.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Jed Rothwell
Has=20 BYU prof found AIDS cure?
Compound could be = long-sought=20 breakthrough

Researchers,=20 including a BYU scientist, believe they have found a new compound that = could=20 finally kill the HIV/AIDS virus, not just slow it down as current = treatments do.=20
   And, unlike the expensive, drug cocktails 25 years = of=20 research have produced for those with the deadly virus, the compound = invented by=20 Paul D. Savage of Brigham=20 Young=20 University=20 appears to hunt down and kill HIV.
    Although so = far=20 limited to early test tube studies, CSA-54, one of a family of compounds = called=20 Ceragenins (or CSAs), mimics the disease-fighting characteristics of=20 anti-microbial and anti-viral agents produced naturally by a healthy = human=20 immune system.
    Under a study sponsored by = Ceragenix=20 Pharmaceuticals, Savage and his colleagues developed and synthesized the = compound for Vanderbilt=20 University's=20 School=20 of Medicine.=20 In his Nashville,=20 Tenn.,=20 laboratories, Derya Unutmaz, an associate professor of Microbiology and=20 Immunology, tested several CSAs for their ability to kill HIV.=20
    While issuing a cautious caveat about his early = results,=20 Unutmaz acknowledged Monday that CSAs could be the breakthrough HIV/AIDS = researchers have sought for so long.
    "We received = these=20 agents [from BYU] in early October and our initial results began to = culminate by=20 November 2005. We have since reproduced all our results many times," he = said.=20 "We have some preliminary but very exciting results [but] we would like = to=20 formally show this before making any claims that would cause unwanted = hype."=20
    What studies to date show is a compound that = attacks HIV=20 at its molecular membrane level, disrupting the virus from interacting = with=20 their primary targets, the "T-helper" class white blood cells that = comprise and=20 direct the human immune system. Further, CSAs appear to be deadly to all = known=20 strains of HIV.
    That would be a welcome = development for=20 the estimated 40.3 million people now living with HIV/AIDS globally, = including=20 nearly 5 million newly infected in the past year alone. =
   =20 "We have devoted considerable resources to understand the mechanism of = these=20 compounds. We think this knowledge will enable us in collaboration with = Dr.=20 Savage to design even better compounds," Unutmaz said. =
    In=20 addition to being a potential checkmate to HIV, the compounds show = indications=20 of being just as effective against other diseases plaguing humankind - = among=20 them influenza, possibly even the dread bird flu, along with smallpox = and=20 herpes.
    Savage said he and his BYU research team = had been=20 studying CSAs for eight years, noting the compounds' value against = microbial and=20 bacteria infections. It was only a year ago they saw that CSAs killed = viruses,=20 too.
    "They kill viruses very effectively and in a = way=20 paralleling our own, natural defenses," Savage said, noting that beyond = the=20 obvious use as a weapon against the AIDS pandemic, CSAs could help many = others=20 with non-HIV immune deficiencies.
    Further, the = compounds=20 appear to have few limits on how they are delivered to patients. = Although early=20 indications are for application

of=20 CSAs with an ointment or cream, pills or injections may also be = developed - if=20 the compound gets to market.
    BYU and Vanderbilt = have=20 jointly filed a patent on CSA technology, which has been licensed = exclusively to=20 Ceragenix.
    Ceragenix CEO and Chairman Steven = Porter said=20 only further research will tell, but he was optimistic about the = application of=20 CSAs in the war on HIV/AIDS. There are indications that it could help = battle=20 antibiotic- and antiviral-resistance strains of disease as they manifest = themselves.
    "We are encouraged . . . that CSAs = may=20 provide a completely unique family of anti-infectives, potentially = active=20 against a wide range of viral, fungal and bacterial targets, including = those=20 resistant to current therapies," he said.
    = Assuming=20 continued positive test results in animal and eventual human trials, = Porter=20 estimates it could be three to seven years before the compound is = available by=20 prescription. That transition could be accelerated, however, if the Food = and=20 Drug Administration should decide to fast-track the drug. =
   =20 That day is still a long way off, though. First, researchers plan to = publish=20 their results in scientific journals, seeking peer review and = independent=20 confirmation of their findings. Assuming no flaws are found, several = rounds of=20 testing would follow.
    Most of the nation's = leading AIDS=20 experts were attending the Conference on Retroviruses and Opportunistic=20 Infections in Denver=20 on Monday. The event's policies prohibits on-site news conferences or = releases=20 during the conference, and efforts to reach scientists there were not=20 successful.
    Of the few AIDS research luminaries = reached,=20 all said they preferred not to comment on the Vanderbilt tests until = full=20 results are published.
    bmims@sltrib.com=20
   
      =20
   l Paul Savage and his=20 Brigham=20 Young=20 University=20 research team have invented CSA-54, a chemical compound that holds the = promise=20 of killing the HIV virus.
   
   l = CSA-54=20 is one of a family of compounds called Ceragenins that mimic the=20 disease-fighting characteristics of a healthy human immune system.=20
   
   l Tests at=20 Vanderbilt=20 University=20 indicate the BYU compound also could be effective against influenza, = small pox=20 and herpes.
   
   l Assuming = continued=20 positive results, CSA-54 could be available in three to seven=20 years
Sent: Thursday, February 23, = 2006 8:43=20 AM
Subject: Breaking News: Bush = says "not to=20 worry"

CNN


NEWS ALERT

Referring to debate over foreign operations = of U.S.=20 ports, President Bush says "people don't need to worry about=20 security."


See: http://www.cnn.com/

(This is not a joke) = ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C6386F.6D445D40-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 23 11:38:16 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1NJbqnn017137; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 11:37:53 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1NJbjcq017089; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 11:37:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 11:37:45 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 14:37:39 -0500 Message-Id: <8C806C7BD5721DF-1290-11CA2@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <5210288.1140716540132.JavaMail.root@fepweb09> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <5210288.1140716540132.JavaMail.root@fepweb09> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: My Sci-fi moon drive Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.69 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <6eAm2C.A.8KE.J8g_DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66557 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: OrionWorks Didn't H. G. Wells in his novel "First Men in the Moon" come up with this idea? <><><><><><> Yep, Cavorite, named after the inventor, Mr. Cavor: http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/content.asp?Bnum=717 Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 23 11:41:14 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1NJ9p0q031774; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 11:09:52 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1NJ9nJG031748; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 11:09:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 11:09:49 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 14:04:51 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: My Sci-fi moon drive In-reply-to: <5210288.1140716540132.JavaMail.root@fepweb09> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66556 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: OrionWorks wrote: > From: Harry Veeder >> >> A sci-fi moon drive: >> >> A spacecraft with the ability to selectively shield itself from Earth's >> Gravity, so the Moon's gravity "pulls" the craft towards it. >> >> Harry > > Didn't H. G. Wells in his novel "First Men in the Moon" come up with this > idea? > > Regards, > Steven Vincent Johnson > www.OrionWorks.com > www.zazzle.com/orionworks > I dunno. Did he? Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 23 11:56:43 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1NJoKG4023585; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 11:56:28 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1NJgZMD019802; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 11:42:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 11:42:35 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=Gqgrmy5Hud5yW8oWpuG9fbkLqcRNYd716/jbzgKOqK+NHGxZIOxSDna4nC5kapMJh9yUVyrOyQ/b30pA4dwKCSUHL5dujQA7uKb0eCSueCtrF+6o//2AbUTNsioRFkjMUQtqmjLDYYcUPy7DkFbtkSfo5Nt88jemB290V0CuZDA= Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 12:42:22 -0700 From: "leaking pen" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: My Sci-fi moon drive In-Reply-To: <8C806C7BD5721DF-1290-11CA2@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_10394_21994449.1140723742710" References: <5210288.1140716540132.JavaMail.root@fepweb09> <8C806C7BD5721DF-1290-11CA2@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66558 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_Part_10394_21994449.1140723742710 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline and selective gravity sheilding as a method of propulsion has been used in so many others since. i like the way it was handled in bio of a space tyrant, for one. On 2/23/06, hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: OrionWorks > > Didn't H. G. Wells in his novel "First Men in the Moon" come up with > this idea? > > <><><><><><> > > Yep, Cavorite, named after the inventor, Mr. Cavor: > > http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/content.asp?Bnum=3D717 > > Terry > ___________________________________________________ > Try the New Netscape Mail Today! > Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List > http://mail.netscape.com > > -- "Monsieur l'abb=E9, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to ma= ke it possible for you to continue to write" Voltaire ------=_Part_10394_21994449.1140723742710 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline and selective gravity sheilding as a method of propulsion has been used in = so many others since.  i like the way it was handled in bio of a space= tyrant, for one.




--
"Monsi= eur l'abb=E9, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it = possible for you to continue to write"  Voltaire=20 ------=_Part_10394_21994449.1140723742710-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 23 12:37:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1NKamQO019776; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 12:36:49 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1NKako3019754; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 12:36:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 12:36:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 15:31:44 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: My Sci-fi moon drive In-reply-to: To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_dka5imTSHrSHRB2rKcEkSQ)" User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66559 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --Boundary_(ID_dka5imTSHrSHRB2rKcEkSQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I am glad I did not originate this idea. A load has been taken off my shoulders. Harry leaking pen wrote: and selective gravity sheilding as a method of propulsion has been used in so many others since. i like the way it was handled in bio of a space tyrant, for one. On 2/23/06, hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote: -----Original Message----- From: OrionWorks Didn't H. G. Wells in his novel "First Men in the Moon" come up with this idea? <><><><><><> Yep, Cavorite, named after the inventor, Mr. Cavor: http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/content.asp?Bnum=717 Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com --Boundary_(ID_dka5imTSHrSHRB2rKcEkSQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Re: My Sci-fi moon drive I am glad I did not originate this idea.
A load has been taken off my shoulders.

Harry

leaking pen wrote:

and selective gravity sheilding as a method of propulsion has been used in so many others since.  i like the way it was handled in bio of a space tyrant, for one.

On 2/23/06, hohlrauml6d@netscape.net <hohlrauml6d@netscape.net > wrote:


-----Original Message-----
From: OrionWorks

Didn't H. G. Wells in his novel "First Men in the Moon" come up with
this idea?

<><><><><><>

Yep, Cavorite, named after the inventor, Mr. Cavor:

http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/content.asp?Bnum=717  <http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/content.asp?Bnum=717>

Terry
___________________________________________________
Try the New Netscape Mail Today!
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--Boundary_(ID_dka5imTSHrSHRB2rKcEkSQ)-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 23 13:04:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1NKkrYr024746; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 12:46:54 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1NKkpsS024718; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 12:46:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 12:46:51 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 15:41:55 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: antimatter In-reply-to: <001801c6389a$d99bc020$eb027841@xptower> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66560 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Personally I think antimatter is forged matter which is why it is so rare. For example iron can be made into a cannon ball but that does not mean cannon balls occur naturally. Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 23 13:06:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1NL6VEc002552; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 13:06:32 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1NKl6cs024816; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 12:47:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 12:47:06 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=FSf1sIRw07PpFZ33jCvfJKt0fy2VBnEGmzUaOmVrkgnLku0FMJ9plSfSOnZ11Bw48db930vgJkbt2rAAHwLB6jiAVdWhQg5M85b5pcdpiBzG5uZNkPlTXH3lOwgIG0IBw+tNQcbSzJBgAM/j27FtTkR9KRdk9UVeQNsYqSge9dY= Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 13:46:54 -0700 From: "leaking pen" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: My Sci-fi moon drive In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_11363_7232589.1140727614887" References: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66561 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_Part_11363_7232589.1140727614887 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline at this point in time, the likelyhood of an actual original thought in term= s of sci fi tech is pretty much nil. On 2/23/06, Harry Veeder wrote: > > I am glad I did not originate this idea. > A load has been taken off my shoulders. > > Harry > > leaking pen wrote: > > and selective gravity sheilding as a method of propulsion has been used i= n > so many others since. i like the way it was handled in bio of a space > tyrant, for one. > > On 2/23/06, *hohlrauml6d@netscape.net* wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: OrionWorks > > Didn't H. G. Wells in his novel "First Men in the Moon" come up with > this idea? > > <><><><><><> > > Yep, Cavorite, named after the inventor, Mr. Cavor: > > http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/content.asp?Bnum=3D717 < > http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/content.asp?Bnum=3D717> > > Terry > ___________________________________________________ > Try the New Netscape Mail Today! > Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List > http://mail.netscape.com > > > > > -- "Monsieur l'abb=E9, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to ma= ke it possible for you to continue to write" Voltaire ------=_Part_11363_7232589.1140727614887 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline at this point in time, the likelyhood of an actual original thought in term= s of sci fi tech is pretty much nil. 

On 2/23/06, = Harry Veeder <eo200@fre= enet.carleton.ca> wrote:
I am glad I did not originate th= is idea.
A load has been taken off my shoulders.

Harry

lea= king pen wrote:

and selective gravity sheilding as a method o= f propulsion has been used in so many others since.  i like the way it= was handled in bio of a space tyrant, for one.

On 2/23/06, hohlrauml6d@netscape.net <hohlrauml6d@netscape.net > wrote:


-----Original Message-----
From: O= rionWorks

Didn't H. G. Wells in his novel "First Men in the Moo= n" come up with
this idea?

<><><><>= <><>

Yep, Cavorite, named after the inventor, Mr. Cavor:

<= a onclick=3D"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href=3D"http://w= ww.technovelgy.com/ct/content.asp?Bnum=3D717" target=3D"_blank">http://www.= technovelgy.com/ct/content.asp?Bnum=3D717  <http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/content.asp?Bnum=3D717>

Terry
___________________________________________________
Try the= New Netscape Mail Today!
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--
"Monsieur l'abb=E9, I detest wh= at you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to conti= nue to write"  Voltaire=20 ------=_Part_11363_7232589.1140727614887-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 23 14:01:56 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1NM1QZk003470; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 14:01:26 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1NM1Lb1003445; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 14:01:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 14:01:21 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060223140258.028c5b88@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 14:04:12 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: Re: price ATTN: BILL B In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66564 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Uh..Bill? OTD? (Outlook Transmitted Disease?) At 01:35 PM 2/23/2006, you wrote: >February price From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 23 14:06:34 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1NM6Jmh006395; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 14:06:19 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1NLi4dU026618; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 13:44:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 13:44:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060223163701.0347d388@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:43:48 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Google scholar Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66563 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: The "Google Scholar" service seems to be increasingly popular with readers at LENR-CANR.org. See: http://scholar.google.com/ The Advanced Scholar Search shows more about how this service is organized: http://scholar.google.com/advanced_scholar_search?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1 Brian Josephson pointed out that the Cornell arXiv is biased against cold fusion and other research areas. Because Google is run by robots instead of human beings there is no censorship and anything which sounds like a physics paper is indexed. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 23 15:09:46 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1NN9KsE012942; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 15:09:21 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1NN9Ixg012926; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 15:09:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 15:09:18 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 18:09:13 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C806E54C1CC6C1-1280-321@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Quantum Non-computing Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.65 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66565 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I'd swear Douglas Adams wrote this article: http://physorg.com/news11087.html "In a sense, it is the possibility that the algorithm could run which prevents the algorithm from running," Kwiat said. "That is at the heart of quantum interrogation schemes, and to my mind, quantum mechanics doesn't get any more mysterious than this." ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 23 15:35:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1NNZQ5u027488; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 15:35:27 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1NNSGAM023873; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 15:28:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 15:28:16 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: "Rick Monteverde" To: Subject: RE: Breaking News: Bush says "not to worry" Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 13:28:33 -1000 Message-ID: <000201c638d0$e1a27030$8e01a8c0@dtqf101> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01C6387D.0FF66030" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <000001c638a1$b7dc5c40$5c5e10ac@eDentsply.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server26.fastbighost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - eskimo.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - highsurf.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66566 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C6387D.0FF66030 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John - Exactly. If we're going to do this (deny the port deal), lets be consistent - at least let our security services profile at airports etc.. Then lets ban Islam, ban all ship dockings, shipping containers, aircraft landings and overflights by carriers owned all or in part by any Arab interests, real estate ownership, etc. etc. It amazes me how easily the loons in the media who have a tendency to shout 'racism' re issues like profiling look right past it glaring out of their own politically charged paranoid stories. Do they really think no one will notice? A porous southern border ...now THAT's a scary story. Moving people and material into the country to hit us if they want to ...already a moot point. But is that the big story about security? Noooo... Jed - don't you think that granting foreign interests a stake in what we have here might actually mitigate foreign attitudes towards terror attacks against the US? The strategy in the Pacific in the earlier part of WW2 was to "hit 'em where they ain't". Is that what we're still doing? R. -----Original Message----- From: John Steck [mailto:johnsteck@tetrahelix.com] Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 7:51 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Breaking News: Bush says "not to worry" Even while news agencies are reporting that new agencies are reporting this story wrong, they continue to report it wrong themselves. The sky is not falling. Do your homework before you spam more people with this overblown nonsense. Foreign companies already control large segments domestic terminal operations. The UAE holding company buying the British company in question is regarded as the industry model for intermodal container traffic and security worldwide... UAE is neither a rogue state or a sponsor of terrorism. Having this company take over would be a significant improvement in the current deplorable security of current US port operations in general. And lets be clear, they would NOT be taking over the entire port, just an isolated segment of one or more loading/unloading operations. This is sensationalized Arab bigotry for the sake of ratings, nothing more. -john -----Original Message----- From: RC Macaulay [mailto:walhalla@cvtv.net] Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 10:14 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Breaking News: Bush says "not to worry" Howdy Jed, I don't believe the American people are worried about Dubya's security. He is secure. Wez woried about OUR security. Richard. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jed Rothwell To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 8:43 AM Subject: Breaking News: Bush says "not to worry" CNN NEWS ALERT Referring to debate over foreign operations of U.S. ports, President Bush says "people don't need to worry about security." See: http://www.cnn.com/ (This is not a joke) ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C6387D.0FF66030 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
John=20 -
 
Exactly.
 
If=20 we're going to do this (deny the port deal), lets be consistent - at = least let=20 our security services profile at airports etc.. Then lets ban Islam, ban = all=20 ship dockings, shipping containers, aircraft landings and overflights by = carriers owned all or in part by any Arab interests, real estate = ownership, etc.=20 etc.
 
It=20 amazes me how easily the loons in the media who have a = tendency to=20 shout 'racism' re issues like profiling look right past it glaring = out of=20 their own politically charged paranoid stories. Do they really = think no one=20 will notice?
 
A porous southern border ...now THAT's a scary story. = Moving people=20 and material into the country to hit us if they want to ...already a = moot point.=20 But is that the big story about security? Noooo...
 
Jed -=20 don't you think that granting foreign interests a stake in what we have = here=20 might actually mitigate foreign attitudes towards terror attacks against = the US?=20 The strategy in the Pacific in the earlier part of WW2 was to "hit 'em = where=20 they ain't". Is that what we're still doing?
 
R.
-----Original Message-----
From: John = Steck=20 [mailto:johnsteck@tetrahelix.com]
Sent: Thursday, February = 23, 2006=20 7:51 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: = Breaking=20 News: Bush says "not to worry"

Even=20 while news agencies are reporting that new agencies are reporting this = story=20 wrong, they continue to report it wrong themselves.  The sky is = not=20 falling.  Do your homework before you spam more people with this=20 overblown nonsense.
 
Foreign companies already control large segments domestic = terminal=20 operations.  The UAE holding company buying = the British=20 company in question is regarded as the industry model for intermodal = container=20 traffic and security worldwide...  UAE is neither a rogue state = or a=20 sponsor of terrorism.  Having this company take over would = be a=20 significant improvement in the current deplorable security of = current US=20 port operations in general.  And lets be clear, they would NOT be = taking=20 over the entire port, just an isolated segment of one or = more=20 loading/unloading operations.
 
This=20 is sensationalized Arab bigotry for the sake of ratings, nothing=20 more.
 
-john
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: RC = Macaulay=20 [mailto:walhalla@cvtv.net]
Sent: Thursday, February 23, = 2006 10:14=20 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Breaking = News:=20 Bush says "not to worry"

Howdy Jed,
I don't believe the American people = are worried=20 about Dubya's security. He is secure. Wez woried about OUR=20 security.
Richard.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Jed Rothwell
Sent: Thursday, February 23, = 2006 8:43=20 AM
Subject: Breaking News: Bush = says "not=20 to worry"

CNN


NEWS ALERT

Referring to debate over foreign = operations of=20 U.S. ports, President Bush says "people don't need to worry about=20 security."


See: http://www.cnn.com/

(This is not a = joke)=20
------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C6387D.0FF66030-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 23 21:04:18 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1O2lCjJ028644; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 18:49:53 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1O2l7e9028609; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 18:47:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 18:47:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Quantum Non-computing Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 13:44:22 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <2mssv195io37pni96ds9vkfa490v9v0cc9@4ax.com> References: <8C806E54C1CC6C1-1280-321@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C806E54C1CC6C1-1280-321@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta03ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Fri, 24 Feb 2006 02:44:22 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k1O2iMVt027488 Resent-Message-ID: <45_Z3D.A.2-G.rOn_DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66567 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to hohlrauml6d@netscape.net's message of Thu, 23 Feb 2006 18:09:13 -0500: Hi, [snip] >I'd swear Douglas Adams wrote this article: > >http://physorg.com/news11087.html > >"In a sense, it is the possibility that the algorithm could run which >prevents the algorithm from running," Kwiat said. "That is at the heart >of quantum interrogation schemes, and to my mind, quantum mechanics >doesn't get any more mysterious than this." [snip] I agree. To me it just says that they have so utterly and completely lost their way, that they no longer know which universe they are in. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 23 21:30:12 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1O3EfPv008892; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 19:17:21 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1O3EcFR008856; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 19:14:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 19:14:38 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: An Article You Might Like, Frank. Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:11:54 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <2.2.32.20060223090323.0097d8cc@pop.freeserve.net> In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.20060223090323.0097d8cc@pop.freeserve.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta01ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Fri, 24 Feb 2006 03:11:54 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k1O3BsFb007719 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66569 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Grimer's message of Thu, 23 Feb 2006 09:03:23 +0000: Hi, [snip] >>Of course the problem with all this is that the ambient pressure >>for all particles ought to be the same, > > >Not so. The "absolute" zero pressure is different for the different >atmospheres. For the Alpha- it is 14.7 psi below Alpha- ambient; >for the Beta- it is - 10^20 psi below Beta- ambient; for the Gamma- >it is ........ : for the Delta.....and so on. It's turtles all the >way down. 8-) If you say so, Ma'am. ;^) [snip] >>Of course this then means that in order for the electron to be >>such a light weight, it must be quite "leaky", which might just >>work....if larger (volume) particles zoom around more slowly, then >>they can't cover all the bases all the time, hence are sieves with >>larger holes. > > >You are pushing things further than I care to take them at this point >in time - but I quite like the sound of what you are suggesting - >I think.... 8-) It might provide a natural explanation for your alphabet soup. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 23 22:57:40 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1O4fut1022528; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 20:44:37 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1O4fnhx022440; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 20:41:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 20:41:49 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 22:34:07 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: Quantum Non-computing In-reply-to: <8C806E54C1CC6C1-1280-321@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66571 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote: > I'd swear Douglas Adams wrote this article: > > http://physorg.com/news11087.html > > "In a sense, it is the possibility that the algorithm could run which > prevents the algorithm from running," Kwiat said. "That is at the heart > of quantum interrogation schemes, and to my mind, quantum mechanics > doesn't get any more mysterious than this." I wonder if the above is related to the finding below: Harry http://www.cbc.ca/story/science/national/2006/02/16/decisions060216.html The researchers figured that complex decisions are best left to the unconscious mind because humans can only think about so many things at the same time. "Contrary to conventional wisdom, it is not always advantageous to engage in thorough conscious deliberation before choosing," the researchers wrote in Friday's issue of the journal Science. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Feb 23 23:06:24 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1O3PfB9014046; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 20:54:04 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1O2sfJ5032283; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 18:54:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 18:54:41 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <2618585.1140749677104.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 21:54:36 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Jed Rothwell Reply-To: Jed Rothwell To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Breaking News: Bush says "not to worry" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66568 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick Monteverde writes: >Jed - don't you think that granting foreign interests a stake in what we >have here might actually mitigate foreign attitudes towards terror >attacks against the US? I doubt we can accomplish that. 95% of the men in Saudi Arabia consider Bin Laden a national hero because he attacked us, and I expect a similar proportion support him in the UAE. These people hate our guts as violently as we hated the Nazis, because they feel that we supported tyrannical governments for the past 50 years. (Which is true -- we did.) This kind of deep-rooted hate is not going to be "mitigated" any time soon. It will take generations. The first step must be to end our use of oil. We must stop sending billions of dollars to tyrants and terrorists. This river of money has corrupted and destroyed their culture. Foreign interests . . . would be fine. A private corporation based in another country with a clean reputation would be fine. But this corporation is owned by the government of the United Arab Emirates. The UAE is one of only three countries that recognized the Taliban government, and it has deep links to terrorism. It was "an important transshipment point for the smuggling network of Abdul Qadeer Khan, the Pakistani scientist who supplied Libya, Iran and North Korea with equipment for making nuclear weapons." (N. Y. Times) To hand over control of our ports to them, in a time of war, would be like putting a Japanese MITI-chartered construction firm in charge of repairing the Yorktown before the battle of Midway. To my mind, this has nothing to do with racism. I do not want to see employees of the UAE government in charge of one of the most critical and -- at present -- porous and badly managed security risks in the US. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 24 00:04:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1O5mc3k025380; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 21:51:19 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1O5maxA025347; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 21:48:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 21:48:36 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 00:40:31 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: Breaking News: Bush says "not to worry" In-reply-to: <2618585.1140749677104.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66572 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gosh Jed, > > I doubt we can accomplish that. 95% of the men in Saudi Arabia consider Bin > Laden a national hero because he attacked us, and I expect a similar > proportion support him in the UAE. Did you take a poll? > These people hate our guts as violently as > we hated the Nazis, because they feel that we supported tyrannical governments > for the past 50 years. Most people in North America were able to hate the German government without hating the German people, although there was vocal minority who hated everything German. Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 24 01:55:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1O9o8oG009153; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 01:55:07 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1O9LEk3030134; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 01:21:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 01:21:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 01:21:07 -0800 From: Mark S Bilk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Bin Laden did not attack the United States. -was: Breaking News: Bush says "not to worry" Message-ID: <20060224092107.GA11301@linux> References: <2618585.1140749677104.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2618585.1140749677104.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Organization: http://www.cosmicpenguin.com/911 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66573 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Bin Laden did not attack the United States. The WTC towers were brought down by explosives, not by burning fuel, carpets and furniture, which were not nearly hot enough to soften the steel. Bin Laden had no way to plant explosives. Please download the three parts of this video and watch them: Loose Change Second Edition (not the first edition) http://www.question911.com/links.php Israeli spies were caught filming and celebrating the collapse of the towers, which had been bought only a few months before by a man with very close ties to the Israeli government, and who insisted on an insurance policy that would pay him double in case of terrorism. http://www.cosmicpenguin.com/911 9-11 was a false-flag operation -- a terrorist attack done by one group (U.S. and Israel) but designed to appear as having been done by another (those Arabs). Both the U.S. and Israel have carried out many false-flag attacks in the past. The "Neo-Conservatives" that control the Republican party, and the closely related Democratic Leadership Council that controls the Democratic party, have very close ties with the Israeli government. Some of them have co-authored papers recommending that Israel destabilize the other nations of the Middle East. Some have dual citizenship in the U.S. and Israel. All have enthusiastically supported Israel's 58 year long robbery, torture, and murder of the Palestinians. A passenger 757 did not hit the Pentagon. None of the 200 passenger chairs of such a plane -- designed to withstand 5000 pounds of force and covered with fire-resistant upholstery -- were found in the building. The fire could not have melted them. There was also insufficient debris to account for any large airplane. http://pentagonresearch.com/ This excellent website has 9-11 research by various university professors: http://scholarsfor911truth.org/ Mark On Thu, Feb 23, 2006 at 09:54:36PM -0500, Jed Rothwell wrote: >Rick Monteverde writes: > >>Jed - don't you think that granting foreign interests a stake in what we >>have here might actually mitigate foreign attitudes towards terror >>attacks against the US? > >I doubt we can accomplish that. 95% of the men in Saudi Arabia >consider Bin Laden a national hero because he attacked us, and >I expect a similar proportion support him in the UAE. These >people hate our guts as violently as we hated the Nazis, >because they feel that we supported tyrannical governments >for the past 50 years. (Which is true -- we did.) This kind >of deep-rooted hate is not going to be "mitigated" any time >soon. It will take generations. The first step must be to >end our use of oil. We must stop sending billions of dollars >to tyrants and terrorists. This river of money has corrupted >and destroyed their culture. > >Foreign interests . . . would be fine. A private corporation >based in another country with a clean reputation would >be fine. But this corporation is owned by the government >of the United Arab Emirates. The UAE is one of only three >countries that recognized the Taliban government, and it has >deep links to terrorism. It was "an important transshipment >point for the smuggling network of Abdul Qadeer Khan, the >Pakistani scientist who supplied Libya, Iran and North Korea >with equipment for making nuclear weapons." (N. Y. Times) >To hand over control of our ports to them, in a time of war, >would be like putting a Japanese MITI-chartered construction >firm in charge of repairing the Yorktown before the battle >of Midway. To my mind, this has nothing to do with racism. I >do not want to see employees of the UAE government in charge >of one of the most critical and -- at present -- porous and >badly managed security risks in the US. > >- Jed > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 24 02:12:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1O5Zgj6018847; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 23:45:39 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1O3RSUN014275; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 19:27:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 19:27:28 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Scotland is the Centre of a Gravity Revolution Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:23:23 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <2.2.32.20060223083451.009bb024@pop.freeserve.net> In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.20060223083451.009bb024@pop.freeserve.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta03ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Fri, 24 Feb 2006 03:23:23 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k1O3NNBI012962 Resent-Message-ID: <3dmIB.A._eD.f0n_DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66570 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Grimer's message of Thu, 23 Feb 2006 08:34:51 +0000: Hi Frank, [snip] >At 05:50 pm 23/02/2006 +1100, you wrote: >>In reply to Grimer's message of Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:33:43 +0000: >>Hi Frank, >>[snip] >>>Basically the exercise was based on seeing the inverse square law of >>>gravity as the difference between two inverse linear laws, with the >>>incoming gravitation pressure pushing stars together being slightly >>>greater than the outgoing radiation pressure pushing stars apart. > >>[snip] > >>Haven't you missed the centrifugal force? I would think this would >>be vastly greater (by very many orders of magnitude) than outgoing >>radiation pressure. [snip] >I don't follow you. I assumed that by "radiation pressure" you were referring to the radiation pressure caused by the light emitted by stars. Was I wrong to make this assumption? [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 24 05:35:31 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1ODZAIg015822; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 05:35:11 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1ODZ7Sj015792; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 05:35:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 05:35:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060224133500122.1DDDD3400088@mwinf3116.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060224133501.009ed11c@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 13:35:01 +0000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Scotland is the Centre of a Gravity Revolution Resent-Message-ID: <1vFhTB.A.k2D.Juw_DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66574 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:23 pm 24/02/2006 +1100, you wrote: >In reply to Grimer's message of Thu, 23 Feb 2006 08:34:51 +0000: >Hi Frank, >[snip] >>At 05:50 pm 23/02/2006 +1100, you wrote: >>>In reply to Grimer's message of Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:33:43 +0000: >>>Hi Frank, >>>[snip] >>>>Basically the exercise was based on seeing the inverse square law of >>>>gravity as the difference between two inverse linear laws, with the >>>>incoming gravitation pressure pushing stars together being slightly >>>>greater than the outgoing radiation pressure pushing stars apart. >> >>>[snip] >> >>>Haven't you missed the centrifugal force? I would think this would >>>be vastly greater (by very many orders of magnitude) than outgoing >>>radiation pressure. >[snip] >>I don't follow you. > >I assumed that by "radiation pressure" you were referring to the >radiation pressure caused by the light emitted by stars. Was I >wrong to make this assumption? Yep. You were wrong. I was referring to Gravitational radiation pressures which travel very much faster than EM radiation pressure in accordance with with Tom Flandern's insight on this. Sound << c Light c Gravity >> c All highly speculative - but that is what Vortex is for, n'est pas. 8-) Frank From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 24 06:02:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1OE1hi0027777; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 06:01:43 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1OE1gsD027760; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 06:01:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 06:01:42 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060224140139779.BE46F5C00084@mwinf3113.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060224140141.009e2894@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:01:41 +0000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: An Article You Might Like, Frank. Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66575 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:11 pm 24/02/2006 +1100, you wrote: >In reply to Grimer's message of Thu, 23 Feb 2006 09:03:23 +0000: >Hi, >[snip] >>>Of course the problem with all this is that the ambient pressure >>>for all particles ought to be the same, >> >> >>Not so. The "absolute" zero pressure is different for the different >>atmospheres. For the Alpha- it is 14.7 psi below Alpha- ambient; >>for the Beta- it is - 10^20 psi below Beta- ambient; for the Gamma- >>it is ........ : for the Delta.....and so on. It's turtles all the >>way down. 8-) > If you say so, Ma'am. ;^) You shouldn't sneer at little old ladies ;-) especially when they were obviously speaking metaphorically to Feynman, for as the good book says, "confiteor tibi Pater Domine caeli et terrae quia abscondisti haec a sapientibus et prudentibus et revelasti ea parvulis" Frank From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 24 06:22:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1OEMGge011473; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 06:22:17 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1OEMGFv011458; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 06:22:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 06:22:16 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060224142214677.A5427340008F@mwinf3116.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060224142216.009f3ddc@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:22:16 +0000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: antimatter Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66576 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:41 pm 23/02/2006 -0500, you wrote: > >Personally I think antimatter is forged matter which is why >it is so rare. > >For example iron can be made into a cannon ball but that does not mean >cannon balls occur naturally. > > > >Harry I prefer to see anti-matter as meta-stable with respect to space-matter Aether-substance whereas the ordinary matter we are familiar with is sub-stable with respect to Aether-substance. The three states correspond to the states of clay. Quick clays which are where the plate like grains have a "house of cards" structure which can be liquified by a minor earthquake, say, and send villages careering down to the sea in places like Norway. Continuously disturbed clay which is analogous to Aether-substance Consolidated clays where the plates are organised like an unopened pack of cards. Frank Anyone got any other views? 8-) From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Feb 24 06:30:01 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k1OETXJd014532; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 06:29:33 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k1OETSNX014490; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 06:29:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 06:29:28 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: FZNIDARSIC@aol.com Message-ID: <147.571ca4b8.31307240@aol.com> Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 09:29:20 EST Subject: re: Gravimagnetic Plank Constant To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1140791360" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5022 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <5nK0mB.A.SiD.Ghx_DB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66577 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1140791360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the energy carried by a graviphoton is negative. This is a curious thing. Perhaps a mechanism exists to simultaneously emit photons in one direction and graviphotons in the other and thereby provide energy free propulsion. Horace Heffner The process does not conserve angular momentum A spin one photon and \ a spin two graviton must be emitted. I believe that there is a way to Add angular momentum. For the genesis process to proceed the strength of the gravitational Field must equal the strength of the electromagnetic field. This condition has not been met since the birth of the universe. The condition might again be produced in the lab, however, it will be more difficult. I believe the key to both of these process is expressing Planck's constant in units of megahertz=meters. In units reveal how to place a macroscopic Bose condensate into a state of quantum transition. ref page 2 _http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chapterc.html_ (http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chapterc.html) Frank Znidarsic -------------------------------1140791360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<snip>
the energy carried by a graviphoton is negative. T= his is=20 a curious thing. Perhaps a mechanism exists to simultaneously emit photo= ns=20 in one direction and graviphotons in the other and thereby provide=20 energy free propulsion. 
 
 
The process does not conserv=
e angular momentum  A spin one photon and \
=
a spin two graviton must be emitted.  I believe that there is a way to
= 
Add angular momentum.
 
For the genesis process to proce=
ed the strength of the gravitational
Field m=
ust equal the strength of the electromagnetic field.  This 
condition has not been met since the birth of the universe.=

The condition might again be produced in th=
e lab, however, it will
be more difficult.
 
 =

 
I be=
lieve the key to both of these process is expressing Planck's constant in
units of megahertz=3Dmeters.  In units reveal=20=
how to place a macroscopic Bose
condensate i=
nto a state of quantum transition.
 
ref page 2
&nb=
sp;
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chapterc.html<=
/PRE>
 
 =
;
Frank Znidarsic



-------------------------------1140791360--

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To: vortex-L@eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell 
Subject: Re: Breaking News: Bush says "not to worry"
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References: <2618585.1140749677104.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 
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Harry Veeder wrote:

> > I doubt we can accomplish that. 95% of the men in Saudi Arabia consider Bin
> > Laden a national hero because he attacked us, and I expect a similar
> > proportion support him in the UAE.
>
>Did you take a poll?

No, the government of Saudi Arabia did. This is described in the book 
"Imperial Hubris," which was written by the top CIA expert in middle 
east terrorism. I have not seen a poll for the UAE. I think the 
number was 95%, but I cannot find the page in this book where it is described.


> > These people hate our guts as violently as
> > we hated the Nazis, because they feel that we supported 
> tyrannical governments
> > for the past 50 years.
>
>Most people in North America were able to hate the German government
>without hating the German people . . .

Okay, make that the Japanese. In the U.S. at the end of WWII, 13% of 
the U.S. favored exterminating every remaining Japanese man, woman 
and child. A much larger fraction was in favor of severely punishing 
Japan by destroying all of their remaining industry and leaving them 
to starve. Huge billboard were erected in many Pacific Naval bases 
saying, "Kill Japs. Kill More Japs. Kill The Yellow Bastards. - 
Admiral Bull Halsey, 7th Fleet Commander." In December 1945, 23% of 
U.S. respondents to a public opinion poll said it was a shame U.S. 
did not have time "to use many more atomic bombs before Japan had a 
chance to surrender."  In 1943 bestseller said the fight against 
Japan must continue "until not alone the body but the soul . . . is 
annihilated, until the land . . . is plowed with salt, it's men dead 
and its women and children divided and lost among other people." See: 
J. Dower, "War Without Mercy.

Needless to say, the Japanese felt the same way about the U.S. Many 
on both sides still do feel that way. It will take generations for 
this to heal. For that matter, there are still large numbers of white 
people in the US South who hate the north, and have never forgiven 
them for the Civil War. (I have never heard of a black person who 
feels this way.) I know one woman who will not accept a five dollar 
bill because it has Lincoln on it.

- Jed


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Gnorts, Vorts!

Took a day off to work on my replication of the patent US 6,954,019 mag 
motor.  I was visiting:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,757.0.html

and found that the inventor went public this week with his prototype.  
He's here in Atlanta and has invited me to see his magmo demo; so, I 
signed his NDA and will be there at noon.

BTW, you have to join Stefan's list to see the vids; but, it's worth 
it.  Hey, Grimer, looks like Aspden was right!

Terry
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Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 16:30:15 +0000
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
From: Grimer 
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At 10:01 am 24/02/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>Gnorts, Vorts!
>
>Took a day off to work on my replication of the patent US 6,954,019 mag 
>motor.  I was visiting:
>
>http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,757.0.html
>
>and found that the inventor went public this week with his prototype.  
>He's here in Atlanta and has invited me to see his magmo demo; so, I 
>signed his NDA and will be there at noon.
>
>BTW, you have to join Stefan's list to see the vids; but, it's worth 
>it.  Hey, Grimer, looks like Aspden was right!
>
>Terry


Let's hope so. 

I'll be interested to read your impression of 
the demo. 

Frank Grimer



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From: Horace Heffner 
Subject: Re: Gravimagnetic Plank Constant
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 08:13:30 -0900
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On Feb 24, 2006, at 5:29 AM, FZNIDARSIC@aol.com wrote:
>  The process does not conserve angular momentum A spin one photon  
> and \a spin two graviton must be emitted. I believe that there is a  
> way toAdd angular momentum. For the genesis process to proceed the  
> strength of the gravitationalField must equal the strength of the  
> electromagnetic field. This condition has not been met since the  
> birth of the universe.The condition might again be produced in the  
> lab, however, it willbe more difficult.   I believe the key to both  
> of these process is expressing Planck's constant inunits of  
> megahertz=meters. In units reveal how to place a macroscopic  
> Bosecondensate into a state of quantum transition. ref page 2  
> http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chapterc.html  Frank Znidarsic


The spins can be equal in magnitude and opposed.  I am talking about  
a *graviphoton*, the analog of the photon, not a graviton, the analog  
of the virtual photon.  The source of gravitons matched with photons  
need not be electrons, but rather can be hadrons.

From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Feb 24 11:36:29 2006
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Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 11:36:08 -0800 (PST)
From: William Beaty 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: 9th Int'l Sym on Ball Lightning, Int'l Sym on Unconv. Plasmas
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 08:41:40 +0100
From: "Dijkhuis, G.C." 
To: xxxx
Subject: Second Call & website

Dear colleagues,

please find attached Second Announcements for the consecutive ISUP-06 and
ISBL-06 meetings next August at Eindhoven University of Technology in the
Netherlands.

You will also find them posted on our website:

		http://www.planet.nl/~icblsec

which also gives details on hotel accommodation at reduced tariffs,
Eindhoven city, our host institute and their stature as centres of R & D
activities. The Abstracts page now lists 4 entries. May many of you follow
their lead!

With greetings and best wishes, sincerely

Dr. Geert C. Dijkhuis
Symposia organizer

P.S. This second Second Call reaches you because a clerical error
apparently locked up the preceding message.





ATTACHMENTS REMOVED:

 <>

 <>

From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Feb 24 12:40:47 2006
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I realize this is off-topic, but it is worth noting what a "port 
operator" does:

"It gets cargo containers off of ships and puts them onto trucks or 
trains. A port operator also provides other services to the shipping 
industry: It does the paperwork to get incoming shipments through 
customs and uses its computer system to help connect the goods with 
potential recipients. ...

Most operators invest in a computerized yard management system to 
help each trucker connect with his payload. ... The port operator 
also handles personnel issues."

http://www.slate.com/id/2136783/

See also the strange quote from Condoleezza Rice here:

http://www.slate.com/id/2136768/

On the face of it, this sounds like an ideal assignment for a 
terrorist infiltrator.

- Jed


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-----Original Message-----
From: Grimer

Let's hope so.

I'll be interested to read your impression of
the demo.

<><><><><><><>

I saw convincing evidence of 6 Newton-meters produced by 3.2 
Watt-seconds.  The electrical energy was displayed on a good digital 
oscope.  The inventor used the conservative values for V and I in his 
Ws calculation.  We actually ran several tests.  He filters out high 
frequency components on his electrical input which actually makes the 
Ws calculation more conservative.

He uses a custom made torque measurement device from Lorentz something 
 from Germany.  I was a bit concerned to learn that it used a Hall 
effect device until they agreed to hold a neodymium magnet near the 
transducer with no apparent effect.

We got into a brief discussion on theory.  They have their opinion; 
but, we disagreed.  I cut that discussion short; although, one 
concrete-head's ideas did get injected.  I have no doubts that he has 
spent the near $1M he claims on the development.  He showed me several 
prototypes.  He went public Wednesday with the prototype.  I was person 
number 5 to request a viewing.  They asked me lots of trick questions.  
I got most of them right. 

Paul Sprain, the inventor, is from Birmingham (there not here).  Can't 
seem to shake you Brits.

Anyone have any questions?  I believe I can get others in to see the 
device if there are any takers.  It is magnificent.

Terry

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im worried more about the security of my rights.

On 2/23/06, RC Macaulay  wrote:
>
> Howdy Jed,
> I don't believe the American people are worried about Dubya's security. H=
e
> is secure. Wez woried about OUR security.
> Richard.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Jed Rothwell 
> *To:* vortex-L@eskimo.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 23, 2006 8:43 AM
> *Subject:* Breaking News: Bush says "not to worry"
>
>
> CNN
>
>
> *NEWS ALERT*Referring to debate over foreign operations of U.S. ports,
> President Bush says "people don't need to worry about security."
>
>
> See: http://www.cnn.com/
>
> (This is not a joke)
>
>


--
"Monsieur l'abb=E9, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to ma=
ke
it possible for you to continue to write"  Voltaire

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im worried more about the security of my rights.   



On 2/23/06, =
RC Macaulay <walhalla@cvtv.net<=
/a>> wrote:



Howdy Jed,


I don't believe the American people =
are worried about Dubya's security. He is secure. Wez woried about OUR secu=
rity.


Richard.






----- Original Message ----- 




Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 8:=
43 AM


Subject: Breaking News: Bush says &q=
uot;not to worry"



 
CNN




NEWS ALERT
Referring to debate over foreign operations of U.=
S. ports, President Bush says "people don't need to worry about securi=
ty."


See: 
http://www.cnn.com/

(This is not a joke) 



-- 
"Monsieur l'abb=
=E9, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible =
for you to continue to write"  Voltaire=20

------=_Part_4663_2825323.1140813998146--

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Nothing like an open-minded, objective report.

Well, the transducer uses a split shaft and hall effect devices to 
measure the torque.  The force shaft input runs freely while the 
bearing shaft output has adjustable load screws.  I witnessed him vary 
the load screws, saw the torque vary and saw the speed vary 
similtaneously.  The electromag pulser works on position and velocity, 
adjusting the pulse accordingly.  It is a small microprocessor device.

Look, if you want to come see the device, I can get you in; but, I'm no 
fool.  I believe you can do what you say you can do until I get 
evidence otherwise.  I saw the Sprain motor do what was claimed.

On a different note.  I would like to introduce you and Mr. Sprain for 
reasons I cannot reveal due to my NDA.

Interested?

Terry

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Goldes 
To: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net
Sent: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 09:28:43 -0800
Subject: Fwd: Re: Sprain motor.

Hi, 
 
One of our labs with 3D magnetic simulation software sent me this 
report yesterday on the Sprain motor. 
 
If either of you improves it sufficiently to make it potentially 
practical, we could be interested in assisting with commercialization. 
 
Mark 
 
Mark Goldes 
Chairman & CEO 
Magnetic Power Inc. 
Room Temperature Superconductors Inc. 
301A North Main Street 
P.O. Box 880 
Sebastopol, CA 95473 
 
707 829-9391 
707 280-8210 cellular 
707 829-1002 fax 


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Subject: RE: Sprain Mag Motor
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 15:46:37 -0600
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From: "Zell, Chris" 
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The oldest question:  If it's real, you should be able to make it self
running, with an output of excess power.

If this seems possible, I would try to design something using a bunch of
ultracapacitors to hold the juice - and thereby avoid any questions
about batteries
being a circuit element, as has happened in the Correa device, etc. 

-----Original Message-----
From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net [mailto:hohlrauml6d@netscape.net] 
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 3:41 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Sprain Mag Motor



-----Original Message-----
From: Grimer

Let's hope so.

I'll be interested to read your impression of the demo.

<><><><><><><>

I saw convincing evidence of 6 Newton-meters produced by 3.2
Watt-seconds.  The electrical energy was displayed on a good digital
oscope.  The inventor used the conservative values for V and I in his Ws
calculation.  We actually ran several tests.  He filters out high
frequency components on his electrical input which actually makes the Ws
calculation more conservative.

He uses a custom made torque measurement device from Lorentz something
from Germany.  I was a bit concerned to learn that it used a Hall effect
device until they agreed to hold a neodymium magnet near the transducer
with no apparent effect.

We got into a brief discussion on theory.  They have their opinion; but,
we disagreed.  I cut that discussion short; although, one
concrete-head's ideas did get injected.  I have no doubts that he has
spent the near $1M he claims on the development.  He showed me several
prototypes.  He went public Wednesday with the prototype.  I was person
number 5 to request a viewing.  They asked me lots of trick questions.  
I got most of them right. 

Paul Sprain, the inventor, is from Birmingham (there not here).  Can't
seem to shake you Brits.

Anyone have any questions?  I believe I can get others in to see the
device if there are any takers.  It is magnificent.

Terry

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-----Original Message-----
From: Zell, Chris 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 15:46:37 -0600
Subject: RE: Sprain Mag Motor

The oldest question:  If it's real, you should be able to make it self
running, with an output of excess power.

If this seems possible, I would try to design something using a bunch of
ultracapacitors to hold the juice - and thereby avoid any questions
about batteries
being a circuit element, as has happened in the Correa device, etc.

<><><><><><>

The next step is 100 W in and 2000 W out.  It will obviously be self 
running if they can do that.  It will, however, require a kick start 
like your rice rocket.  However, as I suggested to Mr. Sprain, the 
addition of Ultracapacitors could eliminate all but the first kick 
start . . . which could be supplied at the factory.

Regards,

Terry
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Subject: Re: Breaking News: Bush says "not to worry"
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 16:29:02 -0600
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Howdy Jed.
Not to mention the " side deal" special favor for DP Ports which waive the 
rules requiring all business papers etc. to be located in the USA plus bank 
records. The US " negociators " waived" these requirement.
Richard
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jed Rothwell" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 2:40 PM
Subject: Re: Breaking News: Bush says "not to worry"


>I realize this is off-topic, but it is worth noting what a "port operator" 
>does:
>
> "It gets cargo containers off of ships and puts them onto trucks or 
> trains. A port operator also provides other services to the shipping 
> industry: It does the paperwork to get incoming shipments through customs 
> and uses its computer system to help connect the goods with potential 
> recipients. ...
>
> Most operators invest in a computerized yard management system to help 
> each trucker connect with his payload. ... The port operator also handles 
> personnel issues."
>
> http://www.slate.com/id/2136783/
>
> See also the strange quote from Condoleezza Rice here:
>
> http://www.slate.com/id/2136768/
>
> On the face of it, this sounds like an ideal assignment for a terrorist 
> infiltrator.
>
> - Jed
>
>
> 


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forward from aki@ix.netcom.com (Akira Kawasaki)
> [Original Message]
> From: What's New 
> To: 
> Date: 2/24/2006 9:30:50 PM
> Subject: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday February 24, 2006
>
> WHAT'S NEW   Robert L. Park   Friday, 24 Feb 06   Washington, DC

 1. DIETARY SUPPLEMENTS: TWO-MORE POPULAR SUPPLEMENTS STRIKE OUT. 
 Last week, saw palmetto, used by 2.5 million American men to
 treat prostate problems, was found to be ineffective.  This week,
 the New England Journal of Medicine published the eagerly-awaited
 results of a trial of glucosamine/chondroitin, used by about 5.2
 million Americans for arthritis pain at a cost of $30 to $50 a
 month.  In 2004 alone, sales were $730M.  The NIH sponsored study
 cost taxpayers $12.5M.  Glucosamine/chondroitin, like saw
 palmetto, was found to be ineffective.  Both are marketed under
 the 1994 Dietary Supplement and Health Education Act (DSHEA),
 which allows natural supplements to be sold without proof of
 safety or efficacy.  After Stephen Strauss became director, the
 National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine at NIH
 began in-depth studies of the most popular supplements.  It takes
 time, and it's expensive, but let's look at the score: echinacea
 doesn't ward off colds or flu, St. Johns Wort doesn't relieve
 depression, ginko biloba doesn't improve memory, ephedra aids
 athletic performance but kills people, and is the only supplement
 to be banned.  A year ago, the Institute of Medicine called for
 revision of DSHEA to require all treatments to meet the same
 standards http://bobpark.physics.umd.edu/WN05/wn011405.html .
 Congress has done nothing, but I guess they've been busy. 

 2. SPACE PRIORITIES: NASA CHOOSES TO EMPHASIZE FAILED PROGRAMS.
 When was it that NASA began having these suicidal fantasies?  The
 2007 budget request calls for sinking more money into the failed
 Shuttle and Space Station programs at the expense of robotic Mars
 sample returns and Terrestrial Planet Finders and anything else
 that smells of science and progress. 

 3. EMF AGAIN: CANADIAN UNIVERSITY BANS WIRELESS INTERNET ACCESS. 
 The President of Lakehead University in Thunder Bay, Ontario has
 decided to keep the school isolated.  "The jury is still out on
 the impact that electromagnetic forces have on human physiology,"
 he told a university meeting.  How isolated can you get?  WN has
 followed the EMF/cancer issue for more than 20 years.  It almost
 died after an epidemiological study by NIH in 1997, but there are
 always people who overslept.  It last came up 4 years ago in
 California  http://bobpark.physics.umd.edu/WN02/wn053102.html .

 4. WATER WITH INTENTION: THE "VITAMIN O" SCAM HAS MUTATED AGAIN. 
 Several years ago USA Today had a full page ad for "Vitamin O"  
 http://bobpark.physics.umd.edu/WN98/wn112798.html .  It was
 ordinary salt water that sold for $40 an ounce.  Then there was
 Oxyl'Eau, which played a key role in the Stanley Cup finals
 http://bobpark.physics.umd.edu/WN99/wn072399.html .  The latest
 variation on that scam is water from a spring in the San Diego
 Mountains that is "infused with the power of intention through
 words, thought and music" http://www.h2omwater.com/home.html .
 Why would you drink ordinary water?  

 THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND.
 Opinions are the author's and not necessarily shared by the
 University of Maryland, but they should be.
 ---
 Archives of What's New can be found at http://www.bobpark.org
 What's New is moving to a different listserver and our
 subscription process has changed. To change your subscription
 status please visit this link:
 http://listserv.umd.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=bobparks-whatsnew&A=1


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From: Jed Rothwell 
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Subject: Re: FW: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday February 24, 2006
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Robert Park is quoted:

> 1. DIETARY SUPPLEMENTS: TWO-MORE POPULAR SUPPLEMENTS STRIKE OUT. 
. . .  This week,
> the New England Journal of Medicine published the eagerly-awaited
> results of a trial of glucosamine/chondroitin, used by about 5.2
> million Americans for arthritis pain at a cost of $30 to $50 a
> month.  In 2004 alone, sales were $730M.  The NIH sponsored study
> cost taxpayers $12.5M.  Glucosamine/chondroitin, like saw
> palmetto, was found to be ineffective.

That is not what the study found. A summary from Aetna insurance describes the results:

"Popular supplements glucosamine and chondroitin may not be much help against arthritis pain in the knees. A study published in the New England Journal of Medicine found that the supplements were not much better than a placebo at relieving knee pain from osteoarthritis. However, combined they may offer some relief for people with severe arthritis pain, the study found. The study involved 1,583 people, age 59 on average, with osteoarthritis pain in the knee. The researchers' goal was to reduce arthritis pain by 20%. The study participants were divided into five groups -- one got 1,500 milligrams of glucosamine hydrochloride every day, one got 1,200 milligrams of chondroitin sulfate, one got a combination of glucosamine and chondroitin, one got 200 milligrams of the prescription pain reliever Celebrex, and one got a dummy pill. Overall, glucosamine and chondroitin, alone or in combination, did not do much better than the placebo at reaching the pain-relief goal. The exception was people with moderate to severe knee pain who took the combination of supplements; they were more likely to report relief from the supplements than people taking the placebo."

Robert Park is incapable of writing the truth. In fact, he would not recognize the truth if it bit him on the butt.

- Jed




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From: Jed Rothwell 
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Park is not the only one misrepresenting this study. Most of the news articles seriously misrepresent the conclusions, and the study itself is muddy. Here is the abstract:

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/354/8/795

This is a good example of how science is distorted by the mass media.

Disclaimer: I myself use this stuff for carpal tunnel syndrome. It is hard to say whether it has an effect or not, but when I forgot to use it for about a week recently, the pain came back with a vengence, so perhaps it is working.

I do many other things to avoid the problem, such as using voice input instead of typing.

- Jed




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------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

The Coby CX-TV1 5" Black-and-White portable TV (12 volt DC powered) arrived today.
$16.99 US plus $7.50 shipping.
Easily opened by removing four screws allowing access to the
~ 6 x 7 inch PC board that lays flat below the ~ 7 inch long CRT
that has small diameter wires running from the top of the board 
up to the horizontal and vertical sweep coil terminals.
The next task (to be delegated to a cohort) is to disconnect the
vertical coil wires on the board and apply a  variable D.C. to
move the horizontal line up about 1.5 inches, and masking it to 
allow (in a well darkened room) looking for a faint trace an inch or so
below it which could indicate the presence of  the mass 2+ electron
masses (*e-)  (Electronium).
Calculations indicate that as little as one (*e-) per Trillion electrons
can be detected by this approach.
Like the Cold Fusion effort, the more people willing and able to
try this, the better.
The TV is a bargain at more than 3 times the price and with care
can be put back in service for camping, emergencies or whatever
if care is taken.

Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8
Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII





The Coby CX-TV1 5" Black-and-White portable TV (12 volt DC powered) arrived today.


$16.99 US plus $7.50 shipping.


Easily opened by removing four screws allowing access to the


~ 6 x 7 inch PC board that lays flat below the ~ 7 inch long CRT


that has small diameter wires running from the top of the board 


up to the horizontal and vertical sweep coil terminals.


The next task (to be delegated to a cohort) is to disconnect the


vertical coil wires on the board and apply a  variable D.C. to


move the horizontal line up about 1.5 inches, and masking it to 


allow (in a well darkened room) looking for a faint trace an inch or so


below it which could indicate the presence of  the mass 2+ electron


masses (*e-)  (Electronium).


Calculations indicate that as little as one (*e-) per Trillion electrons


can be detected by this approach.


Like the Cold Fusion effort, the more people willing and able to


try this, the better.


The TV is a bargain at more than 3 times the price and with care


can be put back in service for camping, emergencies or whatever


if care is taken.


 


Fred


 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8--


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From: "Hoyt A. Stearns jr." 
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Subject: RE: Primordial Electronium Sources
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:07:04 -0700
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I think you will see a small short line at the center. I've seen these
numerous times with similar experiments.
 I've heard it's due to the heavy ions from the gasses  that haven't all
been all evacuated. They sometimes leave a burn mark on the phosphor,
depending on
the quality of the tube.

Hoyt Stearns
Scottsdale, Arizona
http://members.cox.net/hoyt-stearns
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Frederick Sparber [mailto:fjsparber@earthlink.net]
  Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 7:44 PM
  To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
  Subject: Re: Primordial Electronium Sources


  The Coby CX-TV1 5" Black-and-White portable TV (12 volt DC powered)
arrived today.
  $16.99 US plus $7.50 shipping.
  Easily opened by removing four screws allowing access to the
  ~ 6 x 7 inch PC board that lays flat below the ~ 7 inch long CRT
  that has small diameter wires running from the top of the board
  up to the horizontal and vertical sweep coil terminals.
  The next task (to be delegated to a cohort) is to disconnect the
  vertical coil wires on the board and apply a  variable D.C. to
  move the horizontal line up about 1.5 inches, and masking it to
  allow (in a well darkened room) looking for a faint trace an inch or so
  below it which could indicate the presence of  the mass 2+ electron
  masses (*e-)  (Electronium).
  Calculations indicate that as little as one (*e-) per Trillion electrons
  can be detected by this approach.
  Like the Cold Fusion effort, the more people willing and able to
  try this, the better.
  The TV is a bargain at more than 3 times the price and with care
  can be put back in service for camping, emergencies or whatever
  if care is taken.

  Fred

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I=20
think you will see a small short line at the =
center. I've=20
seen these numerous times with similar experiments.


 I've heard it's due to the heavy ions =
from the=20
gasses  that haven't all  been all evacuated. They sometimes =
leave a=20
burn mark on the phosphor, depending on


the=20
quality of the tube.


 


Hoyt=20
Stearns


Scottsdale, Arizona


http://members.cox.net/hoyt-=
stearns



  
-----Original Message-----
From: Frederick Sparber=20
  [mailto:fjsparber@earthlink.net]
Sent: Friday, February 24, =
2006=20
  7:44 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: =
Primordial=20
  Electronium Sources


  
The Coby CX-TV1 5" Black-and-White =
portable TV=20
  (12 volt DC powered) arrived today.

  
$16.99 US plus $7.50 shipping.

  
Easily opened by removing four screws allowing access to =
the

  
~ 6 x 7 inch PC board that lays flat below the ~ 7 inch long =
CRT

  
that has small diameter wires running from the top of the board =


  
up to the horizontal and vertical sweep coil terminals.

  
The next task (to be delegated to a cohort) is to disconnect =
the

  
vertical coil wires on the board and apply a  variable D.C. =
to

  
move the horizontal line up about 1.5 inches, and masking it to =


  
allow (in a well darkened room) looking for a faint trace an inch =
or=20
  so

  
below it which could indicate the presence of  the mass 2+=20
  electron

  
masses (*e-)  (Electronium).

  
Calculations indicate that as little as one (*e-) per Trillion=20
  electrons

  
can be detected by this approach.

  
Like the Cold Fusion effort, the more people willing and able =
to

  
try this, the better.

  
The TV is a bargain at more than 3 times the price and with =
care

  
can be put back in service for camping, emergencies or =
whatever

  
if care is taken.

  
 

  
Fred

  
 


------=_NextPart_000_0150_01C6397D.E18F54C0--

From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Feb 24 19:13:34 2006
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From: "Jeff and Dorothy Kooistra" 
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To: , Jed Rothwell 
Subject: Re: FW: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday February 24, 2006
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I also have used GC for achy knees.  Not from arthritis, but from being on my feet 8 hours a day on a hard floor.  After having sore knees for over a year, within a week of starting the GC, the pain went away.

I sincerely hope Bob Park has sore knees and he never tries GC .

Jeff Kooistra


---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Jed Rothwell 
Reply-To: Jed Rothwell 
Date:  Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:16:49 -0500 (GMT-05:00)

>Robert Park is quoted:
>
>> 1. DIETARY SUPPLEMENTS: TWO-MORE POPULAR SUPPLEMENTS STRIKE OUT. 
>. . .  This week,
>> the New England Journal of Medicine published the eagerly-awaited
>> results of a trial of glucosamine/chondroitin, used by about 5.2
>> million Americans for arthritis pain at a cost of $30 to $50 a
>> month.  In 2004 alone, sales were $730M.  The NIH sponsored study
>> cost taxpayers $12.5M.  Glucosamine/chondroitin, like saw
>> palmetto, was found to be ineffective.
>

 

From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Fri Feb 24 23:43:03 2006
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Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 02:36:53 -0500
From: Harry Veeder 
Subject: Re: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday February 24, 2006
In-reply-to: 
 <20513389.1140830209231.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
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Do they ever begin a study with a population of individuals who
have experienced beneficial effects in the past? Or do they start
a study with a random population sample?

Perhaps there is something unique about the physiology of
people who have previously experienced a benefit.
Double blind trials could be performed on this population to see
if it is a placebo effect or if they enjoy some hypothetical
physiological "advantage" over the wider the population.

Harry

Jed Rothwell wrote:

> Robert Park is quoted:
> 
>> 1. DIETARY SUPPLEMENTS: TWO-MORE POPULAR SUPPLEMENTS STRIKE OUT.
> . . .  This week,
>> the New England Journal of Medicine published the eagerly-awaited
>> results of a trial of glucosamine/chondroitin, used by about 5.2
>> million Americans for arthritis pain at a cost of $30 to $50 a
>> month.  In 2004 alone, sales were $730M.  The NIH sponsored study
>> cost taxpayers $12.5M.  Glucosamine/chondroitin, like saw
>> palmetto, was found to be ineffective.
> 
> That is not what the study found. A summary from Aetna insurance describes the
> results:
> 
> "Popular supplements glucosamine and chondroitin may not be much help against
> arthritis pain in the knees. A study published in the New England Journal of
> Medicine found that the supplements were not much better than a placebo at
> relieving knee pain from osteoarthritis. However, combined they may offer some
> relief for people with severe arthritis pain, the study found. The study
> involved 1,583 people, age 59 on average, with osteoarthritis pain in the
> knee. The researchers' goal was to reduce arthritis pain by 20%. The study
> participants were divided into five groups -- one got 1,500 milligrams of
> glucosamine hydrochloride every day, one got 1,200 milligrams of chondroitin
> sulfate, one got a combination of glucosamine and chondroitin, one got 200
> milligrams of the prescription pain reliever Celebrex, and one got a dummy
> pill. Overall, glucosamine and chondroitin, alone or in combination, did not
> do much better than the placebo at reaching the pain-relief goal. The
> exception !
> was people with moderate to severe knee pain who took the combination of
> supplements; they were more likely to report relief from the supplements than
> people taking the placebo."
> 
> Robert Park is incapable of writing the truth. In fact, he would not recognize
> the truth if it bit him on the butt.
> 
> - Jed
> 
> 
> 
> 

From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Feb 25 03:31:16 2006
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From: "Frederick Sparber" 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: Primordial Electronium Sources
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 04:30:48 -0700
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Interesting Hoyt.
But a negative ion such as H- , O-, or Cl- has a mass thousands to
tens of thousands times that of an electron or a possible (*e-) entity
and will stay in the center of the CRT when the trace line is moved
up or down. 

Thanks.

Fred
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Hoyt A. Stearns jr. 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: 2/24/2006 8:09:50 PM 
Subject: RE: Primordial Electronium Sources


I think you will see a small short line at the center. I've seen these numerous times with similar experiments.
 I've heard it's due to the heavy ions from the gasses  that haven't all  been all evacuated. They sometimes leave a burn mark on the phosphor, depending on
the quality of the tube.

Hoyt Stearns
Scottsdale, Arizona
http://members.cox.net/hoyt-stearns
-----Original Message-----
From: Frederick Sparber [mailto:fjsparber@earthlink.net]
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 7:44 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Primordial Electronium Sources


The Coby CX-TV1 5" Black-and-White portable TV (12 volt DC powered) arrived today.
$16.99 US plus $7.50 shipping.
Easily opened by removing four screws allowing access to the
~ 6 x 7 inch PC board that lays flat below the ~ 7 inch long CRT
that has small diameter wires running from the top of the board 
up to the horizontal and vertical sweep coil terminals.
The next task (to be delegated to a cohort) is to disconnect the
vertical coil wires on the board and apply a  variable D.C. to
move the horizontal line up about 1.5 inches, and masking it to 
allow (in a well darkened room) looking for a faint trace an inch or so
below it which could indicate the presence of  the mass 2+ electron
masses (*e-)  (Electronium).
Calculations indicate that as little as one (*e-) per Trillion electrons
can be detected by this approach.
Like the Cold Fusion effort, the more people willing and able to
try this, the better.
The TV is a bargain at more than 3 times the price and with care
can be put back in service for camping, emergencies or whatever
if care is taken.

Fred
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Interesting Hoyt.


But a negative ion such as H- , O-, or Cl- has a mass thousands to


tens of thousands times that of an electron or a possible (*e-) entity


and will stay in the center of the CRT when the trace line is moved


up or down. 


 


Thanks.


 


Fred




----- Original Message ----- 




Sent: 2/24/2006 8:09:50 PM 


Subject: RE: Primordial Electronium Sources





I think you will see a small short line at the center. I've seen these numerous times with similar experiments.


 I've heard it's due to the heavy ions from the gasses  that haven't all  been all evacuated. They sometimes leave a burn mark on the phosphor, depending on


the quality of the tube.


 


Hoyt Stearns


Scottsdale, Arizona





-----Original Message-----
From: Frederick Sparber [mailto:fjsparber@earthlink.net]
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 7:44 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Primordial Electronium Sources



The Coby CX-TV1 5" Black-and-White portable TV (12 volt DC powered) arrived today.


$16.99 US plus $7.50 shipping.


Easily opened by removing four screws allowing access to the


~ 6 x 7 inch PC board that lays flat below the ~ 7 inch long CRT


that has small diameter wires running from the top of the board 


up to the horizontal and vertical sweep coil terminals.


The next task (to be delegated to a cohort) is to disconnect the


vertical coil wires on the board and apply a  variable D.C. to


move the horizontal line up about 1.5 inches, and masking it to 


allow (in a well darkened room) looking for a faint trace an inch or so


below it which could indicate the presence of  the mass 2+ electron


masses (*e-)  (Electronium).


Calculations indicate that as little as one (*e-) per Trillion electrons


can be detected by this approach.


Like the Cold Fusion effort, the more people willing and able to


try this, the better.


The TV is a bargain at more than 3 times the price and with care


can be put back in service for camping, emergencies or whatever


if care is taken.


 


Fred


 

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From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Feb 25 09:32:32 2006
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From: "Frederick Sparber" 
To: "vortex-l" 
Subject: RE: Primordial Electronium Sources
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OTOH, Hoyt.

In an electrostatically deflected CRT a stray Light  Lepton (LL-) 
moving at a velocity very close to the speed of light with a relativistic mass ratio 
Mrel /Mo =  2 * V*q/Eo +1 (where V is the accelerating voltage of the CRT) 
wouldn't  have time enough between the deflection plates to be deflected as much
as the electrons (about 4.2e^7 meters/sec for a  2 to 5 kilovolt beam).

This won't occur in a magnetically deflected (TV CRT) where LLs would be trapped
by the sweep coil B fields, except when the coil fields go to zero about 15,750
times a second.  :-)

Fred  

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Frederick Sparber 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: 2/25/2006 4:30:40 AM 
Subject: RE: Primordial Electronium Sources


Interesting Hoyt.
But a negative ion such as H- , O-, or Cl- has a mass thousands to
tens of thousands times that of an electron or a possible (*e-) entity
and will stay in the center of the CRT when the trace line is moved
up or down. 

Thanks.

Fred
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Hoyt A. Stearns jr. 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: 2/24/2006 8:09:50 PM 
Subject: RE: Primordial Electronium Sources


I think you will see a small short line at the center. I've seen these numerous times with similar experiments.
 I've heard it's due to the heavy ions from the gasses  that haven't all  been all evacuated. They sometimes leave a burn mark on the phosphor, depending on
the quality of the tube.

Hoyt Stearns
Scottsdale, Arizona
http://members.cox.net/hoyt-stearns
-----Original Message-----
From: Frederick Sparber [mailto:fjsparber@earthlink.net]
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 7:44 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Primordial Electronium Sources


The Coby CX-TV1 5" Black-and-White portable TV (12 volt DC powered) arrived today.
$16.99 US plus $7.50 shipping.
Easily opened by removing four screws allowing access to the
~ 6 x 7 inch PC board that lays flat below the ~ 7 inch long CRT
that has small diameter wires running from the top of the board 
up to the horizontal and vertical sweep coil terminals.
The next task (to be delegated to a cohort) is to disconnect the
vertical coil wires on the board and apply a  variable D.C. to
move the horizontal line up about 1.5 inches, and masking it to 
allow (in a well darkened room) looking for a faint trace an inch or so
below it which could indicate the presence of  the mass 2+ electron
masses (*e-)  (Electronium).
Calculations indicate that as little as one (*e-) per Trillion electrons
can be detected by this approach.
Like the Cold Fusion effort, the more people willing and able to
try this, the better.
The TV is a bargain at more than 3 times the price and with care
can be put back in service for camping, emergencies or whatever
if care is taken.

Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8
Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII








OTOH, Hoyt.


 


In an electrostatically deflected CRT a stray Light  Lepton (LL-) 


moving at a velocity very close to the speed of light with a relativistic mass ratio 


Mrel /Mo =  2 * V*q/Eo +1 (where V is the accelerating voltage of the CRT) 


wouldn't  have time enough between the deflection plates to be deflected as much


as the electrons (about 4.2e^7 meters/sec for a  2 to 5 kilovolt beam).


 


This won't occur in a magnetically deflected (TV CRT) where LLs would be trapped


by the sweep coil B fields, except when the coil fields go to zero about 15,750


times a second.  :-)


 


Fred  


 




----- Original Message ----- 




Sent: 2/25/2006 4:30:40 AM 


Subject: RE: Primordial Electronium Sources







Interesting Hoyt.


But a negative ion such as H- , O-, or Cl- has a mass thousands to


tens of thousands times that of an electron or a possible (*e-) entity


and will stay in the center of the CRT when the trace line is moved


up or down. 


 


Thanks.


 


Fred




----- Original Message ----- 




Sent: 2/24/2006 8:09:50 PM 


Subject: RE: Primordial Electronium Sources





I think you will see a small short line at the center. I've seen these numerous times with similar experiments.


 I've heard it's due to the heavy ions from the gasses  that haven't all  been all evacuated. They sometimes leave a burn mark on the phosphor, depending on


the quality of the tube.


 


Hoyt Stearns


Scottsdale, Arizona





-----Original Message-----
From: Frederick Sparber [mailto:fjsparber@earthlink.net]
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 7:44 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Primordial Electronium Sources



The Coby CX-TV1 5" Black-and-White portable TV (12 volt DC powered) arrived today.


$16.99 US plus $7.50 shipping.


Easily opened by removing four screws allowing access to the


~ 6 x 7 inch PC board that lays flat below the ~ 7 inch long CRT


that has small diameter wires running from the top of the board 


up to the horizontal and vertical sweep coil terminals.


The next task (to be delegated to a cohort) is to disconnect the


vertical coil wires on the board and apply a  variable D.C. to


move the horizontal line up about 1.5 inches, and masking it to 


allow (in a well darkened room) looking for a faint trace an inch or so


below it which could indicate the presence of  the mass 2+ electron


masses (*e-)  (Electronium).


Calculations indicate that as little as one (*e-) per Trillion electrons


can be detected by this approach.


Like the Cold Fusion effort, the more people willing and able to


try this, the better.


The TV is a bargain at more than 3 times the price and with care


can be put back in service for camping, emergencies or whatever


if care is taken.


 


Fred


 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8--


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Subject: Re: Breaking News: Bush says "not to worry"
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Vortexians- I was trying to imagine a scenario where The American 
            Government would have to surrender to save the the lives
             of a great many of our people.
                The idea that I came up with weeks ago was that
             some one would place bombs clean or dirty in at least 
           6 of our major cities. Thus risking the lives of 1/4
           1/3 of our population or more.
           This would be to great a population to have wiped out.
            The government would surrender and we would become
           Muslim like the days of old.
           These people want to do more than change our political
            system they want to change our way of live,and how we live.
           They have no time table to worry about only there goal
              is what they to accomplish.
             I love our free enterprise system and believe in free 
           trade. But i think no country should be so stupid as to 
          allow any Foreign company to run its most sensitive
           economic , and security inlet.
            This would be the most likely chance for the one's who want
            to destroy us. Can our president be so naive. 
                              -GES-


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From: "Frederick Sparber" 
To: "vortex-l" 
Subject: RE: Primordial Electronium Sources
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 12:31:49 -0700
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OTOH II, Hoyt.

One might opt to videotape or burn a DVD of a flat black 
background in a darkened room and play it in a well darkened room for 
an hour or so, on any TV that uses a CRT, .
There might be LLs showing up in the center of the set during the sweep dead time 
as well as a sprinkling of (*e-) electronium flashes (any color) on the screen.

To spice things up point your laser pointer at the flat black
background while taping it to create your own "Starry Night".  :-)

Fred.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Frederick Sparber 
To: vortex-l
Sent: 2/25/2006 10:32:59 AM 
Subject: RE: Primordial Electronium Sources


OTOH, Hoyt.

In an electrostatically deflected CRT a stray Light  Lepton (LL-) 
moving at a velocity very close to the speed of light with a relativistic mass ratio 
Mrel /Mo =  2 * V*q/Eo +1 (where V is the accelerating voltage of the CRT) 
wouldn't  have time enough between the deflection plates to be deflected as much
as the electrons (about 4.2e^7 meters/sec for a  2 to 5 kilovolt beam).

This won't occur in a magnetically deflected (TV CRT) where LLs would be trapped
by the sweep coil B fields, except when the coil fields go to zero about 15,750
times a second.  :-)

Fred  

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Frederick Sparber 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: 2/25/2006 4:30:40 AM 
Subject: RE: Primordial Electronium Sources


Interesting Hoyt.
But a negative ion such as H- , O-, or Cl- has a mass thousands to
tens of thousands times that of an electron or a possible (*e-) entity
and will stay in the center of the CRT when the trace line is moved
up or down. 

Thanks.

Fred
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Hoyt A. Stearns jr. 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: 2/24/2006 8:09:50 PM 
Subject: RE: Primordial Electronium Sources


I think you will see a small short line at the center. I've seen these numerous times with similar experiments.
 I've heard it's due to the heavy ions from the gasses  that haven't all  been all evacuated. They sometimes leave a burn mark on the phosphor, depending on
the quality of the tube.

Hoyt Stearns
Scottsdale, Arizona
http://members.cox.net/hoyt-stearns
-----Original Message-----
From: Frederick Sparber [mailto:fjsparber@earthlink.net]
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 7:44 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Primordial Electronium Sources


The Coby CX-TV1 5" Black-and-White portable TV (12 volt DC powered) arrived today.
$16.99 US plus $7.50 shipping.
Easily opened by removing four screws allowing access to the
~ 6 x 7 inch PC board that lays flat below the ~ 7 inch long CRT
that has small diameter wires running from the top of the board 
up to the horizontal and vertical sweep coil terminals.
The next task (to be delegated to a cohort) is to disconnect the
vertical coil wires on the board and apply a  variable D.C. to
move the horizontal line up about 1.5 inches, and masking it to 
allow (in a well darkened room) looking for a faint trace an inch or so
below it which could indicate the presence of  the mass 2+ electron
masses (*e-)  (Electronium).
Calculations indicate that as little as one (*e-) per Trillion electrons
can be detected by this approach.
Like the Cold Fusion effort, the more people willing and able to
try this, the better.
The TV is a bargain at more than 3 times the price and with care
can be put back in service for camping, emergencies or whatever
if care is taken.

Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8
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OTOH II, Hoyt.


 


One might opt to videotape or burn a DVD of a flat black 


background in a darkened room and play it in a well darkened room for 


an hour or so, on any TV that uses a CRT, .


There might be LLs showing up in the center of the set during the sweep dead time 


as well as a sprinkling of (*e-) electronium flashes (any color) on the screen.


 


To spice things up point your laser pointer at the flat black


background while taping it to create your own "Starry Night".  :-)


 


Fred.


 




----- Original Message ----- 




Sent: 2/25/2006 10:32:59 AM 


Subject: RE: Primordial Electronium Sources







OTOH, Hoyt.


 


In an electrostatically deflected CRT a stray Light  Lepton (LL-) 


moving at a velocity very close to the speed of light with a relativistic mass ratio 


Mrel /Mo =  2 * V*q/Eo +1 (where V is the accelerating voltage of the CRT) 


wouldn't  have time enough between the deflection plates to be deflected as much


as the electrons (about 4.2e^7 meters/sec for a  2 to 5 kilovolt beam).


 


This won't occur in a magnetically deflected (TV CRT) where LLs would be trapped


by the sweep coil B fields, except when the coil fields go to zero about 15,750


times a second.  :-)


 


Fred  


 




----- Original Message ----- 




Sent: 2/25/2006 4:30:40 AM 


Subject: RE: Primordial Electronium Sources







Interesting Hoyt.


But a negative ion such as H- , O-, or Cl- has a mass thousands to


tens of thousands times that of an electron or a possible (*e-) entity


and will stay in the center of the CRT when the trace line is moved


up or down. 


 


Thanks.


 


Fred




----- Original Message ----- 




Sent: 2/24/2006 8:09:50 PM 


Subject: RE: Primordial Electronium Sources





I think you will see a small short line at the center. I've seen these numerous times with similar experiments.


 I've heard it's due to the heavy ions from the gasses  that haven't all  been all evacuated. They sometimes leave a burn mark on the phosphor, depending on


the quality of the tube.


 


Hoyt Stearns


Scottsdale, Arizona





-----Original Message-----
From: Frederick Sparber [mailto:fjsparber@earthlink.net]
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 7:44 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Primordial Electronium Sources



The Coby CX-TV1 5" Black-and-White portable TV (12 volt DC powered) arrived today.


$16.99 US plus $7.50 shipping.


Easily opened by removing four screws allowing access to the


~ 6 x 7 inch PC board that lays flat below the ~ 7 inch long CRT


that has small diameter wires running from the top of the board 


up to the horizontal and vertical sweep coil terminals.


The next task (to be delegated to a cohort) is to disconnect the


vertical coil wires on the board and apply a  variable D.C. to


move the horizontal line up about 1.5 inches, and masking it to 


allow (in a well darkened room) looking for a faint trace an inch or so


below it which could indicate the presence of  the mass 2+ electron


masses (*e-)  (Electronium).


Calculations indicate that as little as one (*e-) per Trillion electrons


can be detected by this approach.


Like the Cold Fusion effort, the more people willing and able to


try this, the better.


The TV is a bargain at more than 3 times the price and with care


can be put back in service for camping, emergencies or whatever


if care is taken.


 


Fred


 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8--


From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Feb 25 13:03:47 2006
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From: "RC Macaulay" 
To: 
References: <20060225.111440.29586.356717@webmail65.nyc.untd.com>
Subject: Re: Breaking News: Bush says "not to worry"
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 14:33:16 -0600
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Not if there is a way to make a buck off of it.  Good start is a study of 
the Carlyle Group on  The Catbird's Seat website. After you do the study and 
learn it is a " group" and the "stockholders" are NOT stockholders, ... 
well... errr.. it depends on what is.. ain't.
Richard
----- Original Message ----- 
From: 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: Breaking News: Bush says "not to worry"


> Vortexians- I was trying to imagine a scenario where The American
>            Government would have to surrender to save the the lives
>             of a great many of our people.
>                The idea that I came up with weeks ago was that
>             some one would place bombs clean or dirty in at least
>           6 of our major cities. Thus risking the lives of 1/4
>           1/3 of our population or more.
>           This would be to great a population to have wiped out.
>            The government would surrender and we would become
>           Muslim like the days of old.
>           These people want to do more than change our political
>            system they want to change our way of live,and how we live.
>           They have no time table to worry about only there goal
>              is what they to accomplish.
>             I love our free enterprise system and believe in free
>           trade. But i think no country should be so stupid as to
>          allow any Foreign company to run its most sensitive
>           economic , and security inlet.
>            This would be the most likely chance for the one's who want
>            to destroy us. Can our president be so naive.
>                              -GES-
>
>
> 


From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Sat Feb 25 16:29:54 2006
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From: "Mike Carrell" 
To: 
References: <20060225.111440.29586.356717@webmail65.nyc.untd.com> <000601c63a4a$b5b8dce0$e9027841@xptower>
Subject: Re: Breaking News: Bush says "not to worry"
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "RC Macaulay" 
Subject: Re: Breaking News: Bush says "not to worry"


                The idea that I came up with weeks ago was that
>>             some one would place bombs clean or dirty in at least
>>           6 of our major cities. Thus risking the lives of 1/4
>>           1/3 of our population or more.
>>           This would be to great a population to have wiped out.
>>            The government would surrender and we would become
>>           Muslim like the days of old.

Nonsense, unless we do it to ourselves. The 9/11 event itself was not much 
in itself, except for the self-destrutive psychological screwing the US 
population did to itself. 3,000 dead? What about the 30,000+ lives lost and 
families disrupted by highway deaths every year? A billion or so in property 
damage? Chump change in a trillion dollar economy. "Risking the lives" is 
not *lives lost* Hiroshima and Nagasaki recovered after direct use of well 
engineered weapons, not toys cobbled together to frighten people.

The US has not been self-sufficient in anything vital since the 30's. WW2 
saw extensive gasoline rationing when cars were feeble comparared to minimum 
acceptability in today's society.

There are no easy answers, but one sure path down is a demand for absolute 
safety. You get that in jail.

Mike Carrell



>>           These people want to do more than change our political
>>            system they want to change our way of live,and how we live.
>>           They have no time table to worry about only there goal
>>              is what they to accomplish.
>>             I love our free enterprise system and believe in free
>>           trade. But i think no country should be so stupid as to
>>          allow any Foreign company to run its most sensitive
>>           economic , and security inlet.
>>            This would be the most likely chance for the one's who want
>>            to destroy us. Can our president be so naive.
>>                              -GES-
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> This Email has been scanned for all viruses by Medford Leas I.T. 
> Department.
>
> 


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Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 20:34:58 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
From: Jed Rothwell 
Reply-To: Jed Rothwell 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Breaking News: Bush says "not to worry"
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Mike Carrell writes:

>population did to itself. 3,000 dead? What about the 30,000+ lives lost and 
>families disrupted by highway deaths every year?

Good point. The reaction to 9/11 was far out of proportion to the damage.


> "Risking the lives" is 
>not *lives lost* Hiroshima and Nagasaki recovered after direct use of well 
>engineered weapons, not toys cobbled together to frighten people.

I believe most experts do not fear a homemade nuclear device or dirty bomb, but rather a stolen Russian weapon. Modern thermonuclear fusion bombs are small and portable, as you can see in the Smithsonian Air and Space museum display of ICBM missiles. Modern bombs range from 100 to 300 kilotons, whereas the WWII bombs were 15 to 20 KT, so the effect of a stolen bomb would be immeasurably worse than the Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

I think it is extremely unlikely that terrorists will ever assemble a homemade nuclear device, but I have heard that the Russian bomb storage facilities are wide open. They are protected by rusting barbed wire and drunk soldiers who are seldom paid -- an invitation to bribery. This problem is being addressed with at joint U.S.-Russian program, but unfortunately the administration has cut back on the funding and it is dragging the program out much longer than originally planned.

- Jed



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Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 21:05:25 -0500
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-----Original Message-----
From: hohlrauml6d

Paul Sprain, the inventor, is from Birmingham (there not here).

<><><><><><>

Paul corrected me in that he's only a half Brit.  Whew!

Here's a piccy of the motor for those who don't want to go join 
Stefan's site:

http://www.geocities.com/terry1094/magmo.jpg

In action:

http://www.geocities.com/terry1094/magmodemo.avi

Terry

PS Yahoo limits BW to about 5 M per hour.  The piccy's small but the 
.avi is 3/4 M.  So, you might have to try later.
___________________________________________________
Try the New Netscape Mail Today!
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-----Original Message-----
From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net

http://www.geocities.com/terry1094/magmodemo.avi 

<><><><><><><>

try

http://www.geocities.com/terry1094/magnet_motor01.avi

Free services suck.

Terry
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From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Feb 26 04:30:08 2006
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Subject: Re: Sprain Mag Motor
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Terry - this motor looks like another variation on the "regauging" idea. 
Permanent magnets on the rotor are attracted to others on the perimeter, 
spaced progressively closer to the rotor so there is a magnetic "hill" to go 
down. At the bottom of the hill is a pulsed electromagnet to pull the rotor 
magnet past the bottom of the hill and "regauge" it. Surely these motors 
fail because the amount of energy needed to "regauge" is equal to, or in 
excess of, that which can be extracted from the rotor as it goes round?

Nick Palmer 


From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Feb 26 05:29:44 2006
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Subject: Re: Three-Photon Positronium Annihilation or Actually Formation of (*e-)  Electronium Particle? 
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 06:29:10 -0700
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Three-Body Mass Defect (Binding Energy) Photons?

http://www.mpi-hd.mpg.de/keitel/karen/

"In addition to the coherent x-ray generation during electron-positron recombinations we have predicted gamma-radiation of narrow bandwidth due to laser-enhanced annihilations of both particles. Without external laser field, ortho-positronium annihilates spontaneously into three photons. In the laser field, the channel that involves two gamma-quanta and one laser-photon can be enhanced by means of stimulated emission of laser photons (see fig. 4). Because of energy-momentum conservation, the bandwidth of the gamma-radiation in this case is connected with the bandwidth of the low-frequency radiation and, therefore, is narrow. We thus obtain gamma-radiation which is enhanced in intensity and narrow in bandwidth."
"figure 4: Feynman diagrams displaying gamma-photon emission via electron-positron annihilation by a) multiphoton annihilation in super strong laser fields with emission of 106 laser photons along with one gamma -quantum; b) annihilation in a laser field with emission of laser photons along with two gamma -quanta; c) annihilation of ortho-positronium with emission of three photons without laser field. Bold lines correspond to the electron (positron) Volkov states, i.e. involving a laser field, dashed lines to the emitted photons"

http://www.mpi-hd.mpg.de/ato/psminus/

The negative Positronium Ion - Ps-

"To measure the spectra a Germanium detector at the temperature of liquid nitrogen detects the ? radiation from the decays of the positronium and positronium ion."
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Three-Body Mass Defect (Binding Energy) Photons?


 



 


"In addition to the coherent x-ray generation during electron-positron recombinations we have predicted gamma-radiation of narrow bandwidth due to laser-enhanced annihilations of both particles. Without external laser field, ortho-positronium annihilates spontaneously into three photons. In the laser field, the channel that involves two gamma-quanta and one laser-photon can be enhanced by means of stimulated emission of laser photons (see fig. 4). Because of energy-momentum conservation, the bandwidth of the gamma-radiation in this case is connected with the bandwidth of the low-frequency radiation and, therefore, is narrow. We thus obtain gamma-radiation which is enhanced in intensity and narrow in bandwidth."


"figure 4: Feynman diagrams displaying gamma-photon emission via electron-positron annihilation by a) multiphoton annihilation in super strong laser fields with emission of 106 laser photons along with one gamma -quantum; b) annihilation in a laser field with emission of laser photons along with two gamma -quanta; c) annihilation of ortho-positronium with emission of three photons without laser field. Bold lines correspond to the electron (positron) Volkov states, i.e. involving a laser field, dashed lines to the emitted photons"


 



 


The negative Positronium Ion - Ps-


 


"To measure the spectra a Germanium detector at the temperature of liquid nitrogen detects the ? radiation from the decays of the positronium and positronium ion."


 


 

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From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Feb 26 06:28:57 2006
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Tying in an old thread.

By nature, an Electrostatically Deflected CRT Cannot separate mass in the beam.

IOW, there could be an abundance of (*e-) particles that haven't seen over
the past century.

Secondly, mass spectrometers use magnetic fields more than three orders 
of magnitude greater than the strength required for detecting electrons 
or a possible (*e-) 2+ electron mass particle.

OTOH, CRT TV or Computer Monitors, or magnetically deflected Oscilloscopes can be used
for the (*e-) search.
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Tying in an old thread.


 


By nature, an Electrostatically Deflected CRT Cannot separate mass in the beam.


 


IOW, there could be an abundance of (*e-) particles that haven't seen over


the past century.


 


Secondly, mass spectrometers use magnetic fields more than three orders 


of magnitude greater than the strength required for detecting electrons 


or a possible (*e-) 2+ electron mass particle.


 


OTOH, CRT TV or Computer Monitors, or magnetically deflected Oscilloscopes can be used


for the (*e-) search.

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8--


From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Feb 26 07:37:12 2006
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-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Palmer 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 12:29:33 -0000
Subject: Re: Sprain Mag Motor

Terry - this motor looks like another variation on the "regauging" 
idea. Permanent magnets on the rotor are attracted to others on the 
perimeter, spaced progressively closer to the rotor so there is a 
magnetic "hill" to go down. At the bottom of the hill is a pulsed 
electromagnet to pull the rotor magnet past the bottom of the hill and 
"regauge" it. Surely these motors fail because the amount of energy 
needed to "regauge" is equal to, or in excess of, that which can be 
extracted from the rotor as it goes round? 

<><><><><><><>

I'm glad you asked. 

According to the inventor, and as I observed.  The rotor will not 
self-start.  You can place it in most any position and it will not move 
with a load on the shaft.  Paul initiates the rotation (as can be seen 
in the vid) by passing one of the rotor mags near the emag.  Position 
sensors "wake up" the microcontroller, Paul gives the rotor a kick 
start, and away she goes.

Position sensors at the bottom of the shaft determine when to fire the 
emag.  The emag (electromagnet, btw) fires just when the rotor mag 
begins to exit the field.  The short pulse momentarily negates the 
attracting field of the mag with the smallest airgap to the rotor 
allowing the rotor intertia to take it over the hump and onto another 
cycle.

Now, the shaft is split between the rotor and the top bearing and load 
device.  In the split is a $10k custom built, hall-effect torque 
sensor.  This is the only device with which I have no experience.  I 
will return with my ME buddy to take a look later; but, having faith in 
who seems to be an honest inventor, I believe the device accurately 
measures the torque on the shaft.

Paul applies a load on the bearing side of the shaft with the screws 
visible in the image:

http://www.geocities.com/terry1094/load_screws.jpg

The display for the load sensor reads 0.6 Newton-meters as the device 
rotates.  The electrical pulse:

http://www.geocities.com/terry1094/pulse_display.jpg

Indicates less that he is inputting less than 1.1 Watt-seconds of 
electrical energy into the pulse.  In 3*Pi radians (1.5 rotations) he 
has input less than 3.2 Ws (3 pulses) and output around 6 Nm of 
mechanical energy (1 Nm = 1 Ws = 1 Joule).  This is a COP of 1.88.

Regauging?  Call it what you may, I think it just might be the Holy 
Grail.

Terry

PS I have blind copied the inventor to be sure I have not made any 
mistakes here.
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-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Palmer 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 12:29:33 -0000
Subject: Re: Sprain Mag Motor

Terry - this motor looks like another variation on the "regauging" 
idea. Permanent magnets on the rotor are attracted to others on the 
perimeter, spaced progressively closer to the rotor so there is a 
magnetic "hill" to go down. At the bottom of the hill is a pulsed 
electromagnet to pull the rotor magnet past the bottom of the hill and 
"regauge" it. Surely these motors fail because the amount of energy 
needed to "regauge" is equal to, or in excess of, that which can be 
extracted from the rotor as it goes round? 
 
Nick Palmer  

<><><><><><><>

I might not have been clear about the rotor self-starting.  With no 
load, I'm sure it will spin around.  And without a load, it spins much 
faster as I witnessed.  This is thanks to the microcontroller which 
shapes and times the pulse perfectly.

I was trying to replicate the patent which is what got me involved.  
I'm glad I got to meet the inventor.  He went through every iteration 
that I had imagined and then some.  Many worked but were not ou (one of 
his partners hates that term since energy must come from somewhere.)  
I'm going to finish my replication.  I think I can make it spin, but it 
will not be ou.
He stressed that those funds included payment to lawyers for patents, 
etc.

Terry

PS Paul, could you remind me what the acronym 'EMILIE' means (to my 
other address).


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From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Feb 26 08:12:11 2006
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I see that some people have tried to d/l the images and hit my hourly 
limit of 4.2 M.  Be patient and try again.  I'm trying to cobble 
together a page with my ISP but they have been having trouble this 
weekend.

So far, I've only used images from Stefan's web site:

http://www.overunity.com

but you have to join to see his images (it's under Magnetic Motors, 
duh).

Maybe later, when I can get my page up, Paul will be willing to send me 
some specific images and information that youse guys request.

Terry
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From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Feb 26 09:23:03 2006
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>From the inventor:

> From: "Paul Sprain"

> Electro Magnetically Initialized Lateral Induction Engine.
> E.M.I.L.I.E.
>
> Paul

I suppost most Vorts know that Bearden's MEG was named after one of his 
partners' daughter, eh?  I wonder what happened to MEG.  I know that 
noone in that yahoo group successfully replicated an ou device.  Tom 
was ranting about investor issues.  Hmmm, didn't Steven Greer use some 
excuse about an uncooperative inventor for his alleged ou device?

http://www.seaspower.com/index.shtml

specifically:

http://www.seaspower.com/SEASUpdateApril152003.htm

There's been a lot on the ou circuit (punny) about flux gating lately.  
Lots of configurations using neos and coils.

Terry
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From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Feb 26 10:47:52 2006
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Were there Vorts who requested reimbursement from Greg Watson who did 
not receive their funds?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Terry
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-----Original Message-----
From: Frederick Sparber

By nature, an Electrostatically Deflected CRT Cannot separate mass in 
the beam.

<><><><><><>

Fred,

Is electrostatic deflection commonly used in CRTs.  I can't remember 
having ever seen one.

Are they used to improve accuracy?

Terry
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From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Feb 26 11:37:41 2006
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To: 
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careful, the msg I am replying to was infected, don't open the attachment!

BTW hello to all, I am new to this list.

Michel (engineer, curious about cold fusion, from France, planet earth)

----- Original Message ----- 
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To: "Vortex-l" 
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> February price
>


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From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Feb 26 11:38:55 2006
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Terry.

To answer a question with a question.  :-)

Why couldn't this approach be used to see if there are any (*e-)
Electronium or LL-  Light Lepton 
entities floating around in a CRT?

Fred

http://www.du.edu/~etuttle/electron/elect29.htm

"The tube could be put in a solenoid that produces a longitudinal magnetic
field. This will give deflected electrons a spiral path, and the field
required to give one full rotation can be used to determine e/m for the
electron, since the angular velocity of the motion about the magnetic field
is simply (e/m)B. Since the time of flight with 530 V accelerating
potential will be around 18 ns, a field of only 20 gauss is enough, which
can be created with only about 15.5 A-t/cm. This experiment seems quite
feasible with this equipment, but will require some development."


> [Original Message]
> From: 
> To: 
> Date: 2/26/2006 11:52:19 AM
> Subject: Re: Scoping Electronium, (*e-)
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Frederick Sparber
>
> By nature, an Electrostatically Deflected CRT Cannot separate mass in 
> the beam.
>
> <><><><><><>
>
> Fred,
>
> Is electrostatic deflection commonly used in CRTs.  I can't remember 
> having ever seen one.
>
> Are they used to improve accuracy?
>
> Terry
> ___________________________________________________
> Try the New Netscape Mail Today!
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From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Feb 26 12:30:37 2006
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To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
From: Horace Heffner 
Subject: Howard Johnson Motor
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 11:30:12 -0900
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If you like free energy magnet based motors then check out:

http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/Howard_Johnson_Motor/index.html

A number of patents there and lots of info.

I still assume nothing ever came of ever came of the Takahashi motor  
Chris Tinsley and Norman Horwood, (both old vorts) looked into.  I  
haven't seen any free energy scooters zipping around.

Horace Heffner

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Subject: Takahashi Magnetic Wankle - Some vortex history
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- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -  
- - - - - -

	From: 	  72240.1256@compuserve.com
	Subject: 	vtx: Magnet Generator Specifications
	Date: 	November 10, 1995 5:26:59 AM AKST
	To: 	  vortex-l@mail.eskimo.com
	Reply-To: 	  vortex-l@eskimo.com


Chris faxed me this odd document in Japanese. This is what it says,  
with a few
comments in square brackets from me.


Magnet Generator Motor (used with scooter) [This sounds as odd in  
Japanese as
it does in English]

Magnet generator motor specifications

Length: 176 mm Weight 7 kg

Input/output electric voltage: Input 50 VAC
                     Internal generation 48 VAC 8 Khz
                     External generation 100 V 30 A
[Yes, this sounds weird too]

Magnets: BHmax 120 MGOe two phase construction   FeSbMn sintered magnet

Curie point:   700 deg C  Magnet can be used at 450 deg C

Coil:          8 p [piece?] magnet 4 p X 2


Sciex Corporation
6-7-5-903 Aoyama
Minato-Ku
Tokyo  107

[Ritzy downtown address!]

Tel: 03-5466-2168  Fax: 03-5485-5994


[photo caption:]

Controller and magnet generator motor


------------------------

This document and the other statements from Takahashi give me the  
strong sense
that they are deliberately evading the issue. They do not want to say  
the
gadget is over unity. This may seem craven but I think it is a wise  
policy. It
would be crazy to go around saying you have a perpetual motion  
machine given
the politics of modern science and the patent office. You would incite
religious hysteria in most scientists. If Takahashi is in business to  
make
money, he will dance around the issue until it no longer matters. On  
the other
hand, I wish he would do a live demonstration of a self-sustaining o- 
u motor,
if he really has one. A video does not cut the mustard. A video from  
Toyota is
fine; Toyota, Pons and Fleischmann have credibility. Sciex does not.  
They do
not have to say anything, they should just demonstrate it live and  
let it
speak for itself. I wish I could have attended this motor-scooter  
rally /
meeting in England. I'd like to have a word with these people, but I  
doubt I
could get anywhere with them. I am sure they have thought about their  
policies
carefully. I am afraid, however, that they decided to act like all  
the other
funny motor inventors. They will  keep it under wraps for the time  
being.'
That means we will never, ever see it, & never get to the bottom of  
it, &
Takahashi will eventually wander off & be forgotten like Mayer the  
others who
make these exotic claims.

Sorry to sound so dour, but I am fed up with people like Takahashi.  
If he can
do what he claims, then building a self sustaining machine would be a  
trivial
problem. If he is going to show a video of such a machine, he might  
as well
show the real thing. A video only invites suspicion that the  
demonstration is
rigged. If CF cells put out electricity instead of heat, then they  
could be
made to self sustain very easily. I would have run out of patience  
with the CF
scientists years ago if they had held back from doing that. I have  
not run out
of patience because I have not seen a single CF cell that could be  
converted
into a self sustaining motor.

- Jed

	From: 	  100433.1541@compuserve.com
	Subject: 	Kentucky Fried Chicken, funny motors.
	Date: 	October 31, 1995 7:34:12 AM AKST
	To: 	  vortex-l@mail.eskimo.com
	Reply-To: 	  vortex-l@eskimo.com

To:Vortex

[snip]

A man called Takahashi is coming to London next week.  He's bringing  
a 'free
energy machine' which he claims to have spent several $m on  
developing.  It's
an electric motor/generator.  He seems to have got some pretty  
serious interest
in his gadget, which he claims will drive a modified electric scooter  
at 70mph
on four small NiCd batteries.  At a guess, that would need maybe  
10hp, 7.5kW,
which at 48V is maybe 150A.  Hmm.  Now, he also is bringing a smaller  
device,
which he says needs batteries to start it, but will then drive two car
headlamps indefinitely thereafter, *with the batteries detached*.  Full
disclosure is promised, with a public announcement in Switzerland on  
about 12
Nov, and a UK one on 20 or 21 Nov.  They say I can go look-see on  
Tuesday next,
and that I'll be allowed to poke all around it and see whatever I  
want.  The
scooter may or may not be available on that date, but I'll take my  
crash-hat
anyway, I think.

My own feeling, after talking to T's London representative, is that  
the man I
spoke to was defensive but confident.  He said that T claims that the  
device
loses the permanancy of its magnets at about 3% per year, and that  
this is the
source of its energy.  I laughed (politely) and the man agreed it was  
rather
silly - I suppose it's the guy's let-out for energy conservation.  I  
do feel
that this could hardly be a mistake, so I'd be looking for reality or  
the
obvious alternative.

What interests me here is that the various patents I've looked at  
seem to show
the same (nonsensical) method for getting this performance.  In each  
case, they
do something like this example:  A rotor is made with permanent  
magnets all
facing outward, but on a 'snail cam' profile.  So the gap to the stator
increases as the rotor spins, and then as the 'jump' on the rotor  
passes a
coil, the coil 'pushes the rotor over the hump', then the rotor is  
pushed
around by the widening gap.  Well, that's the general idea.  There  
was a recent
paper (I don't have the reference, but I could find it) where there  
was shown
evidence that a resonant circuit with an SCR in circuit could drive a  
motor.
That paper didn't actually say that it was a free energy machine, but  
in fact
that was the essence of what it said.

So, if I actually do go, and if it actually is there, and I can't  
find the
catch, I'll be looking for how it works.  There are so many claims  
for motors
of this kind, and so many recently granted US patents for them - even  
those
with direct unequivocal o-u claims in - but so far none have been  
available for
study (haha).  Comments, suggestions (except ones that I get my head  
felt while
I'm in London - I know how batty this is) welcome.  I intend taking a  
couple of
digital voltmeters with me.

Fancy a trip to Lunnon, Scott....?

Chris

	From: 	  100433.1541@compuserve.com
	Subject: 	Re: electromagnetism......
	Date: 	July 21, 1996 5:13:17 AM AKDT
	To: 	  vortex-l@eskimo.com
	Reply-To: 	  vortex-l@eskimo.com

Mike writes:



> Takahashi was guarded in his conversation with Chris Tinsley over
> the demonstration of the Sciex scooter, not claiming o/u, but when
> Chris challenged him on the point, he grinned (Chris, do I have it
> right?).
>
>

Well, he was claiming that the apparent o-u resulted from a gradual
loss of strength (5%/year, he said) of the magnets.  Naturally I
laughed.  He laughed back, we understood one another...

Yes, the video was hoax-or-real, precisely zero possibility of error I
would say.



>  Remember that a key Japanese strategic goal is market share, not
> necessarily fame and glory.
>
>

In this case, Takahashi has made it perfectly clear that he specifically
wants the recognition of the science community.  I also have seen that
some say he is not a big wheel in Sciex, but his business card says
'C E O'.

[snip]

Chris

	From: 	  100433.1541@compuserve.com
	Subject: 	Re: electromagnetism......
	Date: 	July 21, 1996 5:13:17 AM AKDT
	To: 	  vortex-l@eskimo.com
	Reply-To: 	  vortex-l@eskimo.com

Mike writes:



> Takahashi was guarded in his conversation with Chris Tinsley over
> the demonstration of the Sciex scooter, not claiming o/u, but when
> Chris challenged him on the point, he grinned (Chris, do I have it
> right?).
>
>

Well, he was claiming that the apparent o-u resulted from a gradual
loss of strength (5%/year, he said) of the magnets.  Naturally I
laughed.  He laughed back, we understood one another...

Yes, the video was hoax-or-real, precisely zero possibility of error I
would say.



>  Remember that a key Japanese strategic goal is market share, not
> necessarily fame and glory.
>
>

In this case, Takahashi has made it perfectly clear that he specifically
wants the recognition of the science community.  I also have seen that
some say he is not a big wheel in Sciex, but his business card says
'C E O'.

Can I tack on here my astonishment at Rick Monteverde's little expt?
What's happening?  I thought wings worked by pressure differential,
but now it's Van der Waals?  Isn't that a zpf manifestation?  Hasn't  
anybody
ever done before what Rick has done?

Chris

	Resent-From: 	  vortex-l@eskimo.com
	From: 	  100433.1541@CompuServe.COM
	Subject: 	Re: Fwd: Overunity application: Takahashi pa
	Date: 	August 26, 1996 7:00:19 PM AKDT
	To: 	  vortex-l@eskimo.com
	Reply-To: 	  vortex-l@eskimo.com

Mr Znidarsic,



> The Sciex Motor Scooter built in England for Takahashi.
>
>

That isn't what Takahashi said.  Or are the authors of this page also  
able to
see what we poor mortals cannot?



> This is the latest news we learned to know via Infinite Energy
> magazine about the Takahashi magnetic wankelmotor, which is
> installed inside a magnetic scooter bike, tested by Chris
> Tinsley in London, UK.
>
>

I would prefer it if this ungrammatical statement were DELETED.  My  
ride on this
scooter was in no sense a test.  Any hint or implication that I  
concluded that
the device was over-unity is false.

Chris

	Resent-From: 	  vortex-l@eskimo.com
	From: 	  76570.2270@CompuServe.COM
	Subject: 	Re: galtek
	Date: 	November 4, 1996 7:39:39 AM AKST
	To: 	  vortex-l@eskimo.com
	Reply-To: 	  vortex-l@eskimo.com

In response to Jean Lagarde's query:

The situation is this, in brief. Galtek will mount the claimed O/U  
motor or more
likely the motor/generator on a scooter -- they were influenced in this
direction by the Takahashi scooter depicted in Infinite Energy #5&6.  
They think
they can do this by the end of 1996. Initially they were going to use  
a dune
buggy.

This installation in the scooter they hope will provide a totally  
definitive
test. I would agree. In the meantime, I am trying to get more  
information on the
Galtek motor for an upcoming story in IE. I hope they will take my  
advice and be
completely public about this motor -- its mode of operation and test  
data.

My understanding from direct sources is that the Takahashi Scooter  
only went 35
miles in a California test, which would make its performance  
completley normal
and non-remarkable. However, it was  stated by Takahashi that there  
were some
problems with the electronics -- some diode problems, which were  
indeed found by
the testers. I am not sure the testers are willing to devote more  
time to this.
I will pass the word back to Dr. Takahashi that his allowing a public  
showing of
his self-sustaining motor/generator last April (in video) puts him on  
notice
that we expect to see either A. the real thing working or B.) a  
disclaimer and
explanation for the video tape.

Gene Mallove

Eugene F. Mallove, Sc.D.
Editor-in-Chief and Publisher
INFINITE ENERGY Magazine
Cold Fusion Technology
P.O. Box 2816
Concord, NH 03302-2816

         Phone:603-228-4516
         Fax:  603-224-5975
         76570.2270@compuserve.com

	Resent-From: 	  vortex-l@eskimo.com
	From: 	  little@eden.com
	Subject: 	Galtek's testing!
	Date: 	November 6, 1996 11:25:59 AM AKST
	To: 	  vortex-l@eskimo.com
	Reply-To: 	  vortex-l@eskimo.com

Gene Mallove said:



> The situation is this, in brief. Galtek will mount the claimed O/U  
> motor or
>
>
more


> likely the motor/generator on a scooter -- they were influenced in  
> this
> direction by the Takahashi scooter depicted in Infinite Energy  
> #5&6. They think
> they can do this by the end of 1996. Initially they were going to  
> use a dune
> buggy.
>
>

Absolutely amazing!  Reminds me of Newman using his o-u motor to saw  
2x4's!
Why do you suppose they don't mount their motor on a dynamometer and  
measure
both its output power and its input power?

Scott

	Resent-From: 	  vortex-l@eskimo.com
	From: 	  100060.173@compuserve.com
	Subject: 	Re: Takahashi scooter
	Date: 	November 18, 1997 2:30:33 AM AKST
	To: 	  vortex-l@mail.eskimo.com
	Reply-To: 	  vortex-l@eskimo.com

Michael,



>> Sorry to hear of Takahashi's illness.  The last conversation I had  
>> with
>>
>>
Takahashi's UK representative Mr. Sawai back in Dec. 1995, he said that
they
were already building a manufacturing plant to make the  
supermagnets.  The
plant output was booked for at least 5 years.  The initial market
applications were for putting the magnetic material in  strips for  
the back
of credit cards.  I asked when they would put the supermagnets for ou
motors
and Mr. Sawai said it would not occur for at least several years.  It
seemed
there was outside little interest for funding such a venture. <<

I've just had a very interesting talk with Mr Sawai about Takahashi.

First - he is well and has not been sick, and he is back in Japan.

Second - he apparently has been defrauding investors all over the place.

Third - his magnificent magnets have been tested by an independent
authority and found to be 48.3 NOT 140.

Fourth - Sawai has seen, but not measured, Takahashi's motor in Japan  
and
confirms that it continues to run after switching off the battery.   
He was
not allowed to examine it or measure any function.

The electric scooter was tested in San Francisco and its range on one
charge was 50Km.

Apparently the original tests on his magnets were falsified by the test
operator by reducing a critical dimension by 1mm.

Sawai is in contact with several 'inventors' all trying to build  
Adams type
motors, most without any deep insight into the theory of magnetism  
and end
up with laughable string and sealing-wax type structures.

I understand that one of Mr Sawai's Engineers is a subscriber to this  
list,
and I am most grateful to Mr Sawai for his frankness and friendly
discussion.

Norman


	Resent-From: 	  vortex-l@eskimo.com
	From: 	  mrandall@earthlink.net
	Subject: 	Re: Takahashi scooter
	Date: 	November 18, 1997 7:24:44 AM AKST
	To: 	  vortex-l@eskimo.com
	Reply-To: 	  vortex-l@eskimo.com

Norman wrote:



> I've just had a very interesting talk with Mr Sawai about Takahashi.
>
>

Thanks for the update.  Well it looks like Takahashi is out of the  
race in
developing an over-unity motor.

Did Sawai know of Teruo Kawai's (5,436,518) 318% ou magnetic motor?   
It has
been assigned to Nihon Riken Co., Japan.  In this design there is no  
need
for super magnets.

Michael


	Resent-From: 	  vortex-l@eskimo.com
	From: 	  100060.173@compuserve.com
	Subject: 	Re: Takahashi scooter
	Date: 	November 18, 1997 10:43:08 PM AKST
	To: 	  vortex-l@mail.eskimo.com
	Reply-To: 	  vortex-l@eskimo.com

Hi Jed,



>> but reliable people who met with him a few years ago told me he was
>>
>>
suffering from a serious illness. He had a portable oxygen bottle and he
was pale and listless. <<

I felt that Sawai was genuine and somewhat apologetic for having to  
relay
such adverse information, having been scammed himself by Takahashi.
Aparently there is more direct evidence of Tak's fraudulent  
activities in
recent times since his return to Japan, involving Sawai in a commercial
context, so Tak is very much alive and kicking.

There may be related developments in the magnet design field by  
others, but
as yet nothing like the intensity reported by Tak. although having much
improved temperature characteristics.

I get the impression that Tak has not done anything illegal, merely
collected cash for his development companies and then gone belly-up -  
the
usual scam.

It certainly has a parallel with Meyer's modus operandi.

Regards,  Norman


	Resent-From: 	  vortex-l@eskimo.com
	From: 	  72240.1256@compuserve.com
	Subject: 	in defense of Tinsley and Takahashi
	Date: 	November 23, 1997 7:27:41 AM AKST
	To: 	  Blind.Copy.Receiver@compuserve.com
	Reply-To: 	  vortex-l@eskimo.com

To: Vortex

Jeff Fink writes:

      I was at the cold fusion seminar in Boston in Feb 96 and heard  
Chris
      Tinsley's report on his test drive of the Takahashi scooter.  As I
      recall he said he drove it for half an hour at speeds up to 75  
mph with
      numerous jack rabbit starts and panic stops.  He further said  
that at
      the conclusion of the ride that the brakes were hot and the  
motor was
      cold!

      . . . From my experiance, the performance Mr. Tinsley reported  
was far
      beyond anything you could achieve with the single battery the  
Sciex
      scooter was apparently equipped with. . . .

Yes, that is what he concluded. The performance was intriguing and
inexplicable. However, he was not allowed to disassemble the machine or
subject it to intensive independed laboratory tests. Without such  
tests you
cannot make any final judgement about the machine. That is what Chris  
said all
alone. We talked about the scooter many times. I am sure that was his
conclusion. He never fully endorsed it or concluded that it must be  
producing
anomalous energy. Since Takahashi refuses to demonstrate the scooter,  
motors
or magnets to other people, and he refuses to allow independent  
confirmation,
the performance of the machine will remain a mystery forever.

- Jed

- - - - - - -

	Resent-From: 	  vortex-l@eskimo.com
	From: 	  mg3545@mail.com
	Subject: 	RE: Alexander Frolov
	Date: 	January 29, 2001 11:35:49 AM AKST
	To: 	  temalloy@metro.lakes.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
	Reply-To: 	  vortex-l@eskimo.com

Our firm had one of the Takahashi scooters.  I'm sorry to say we  
found it
did not demonstrate the claimed performance.  The President of his  
company
in London concluded that Takahashi was a fraud.  His so-called battery
doubler magnets, which Takahashi claimed to have made, were later  
discovered
to have been manufactured by Sumitomo Special Metals.

Mark Goldes, CEO
Magnetic Power Inc.
Room Temperature Superconductors Inc.



------Original Message------
From: thomas malloy 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: January 29, 2001 8:11:41 AM GMT
Subject: Alexander Frolov


I met the Russian physicist Alexander Frolov through our mutual
interest in FE machines. His website at http://alexfrolov.narod.ru ,
contains some very interesting articles by Russian academics.
Alexander has several research projects that he would like to get
funded. The amounts he is asking for are so low by American standards
they make me laugh. He is an expert on data transmission systems, and
is open to job offers. He wants to know what happened to Takashai's
electrical moped, I told him that I got quite excited about the moped
when I first heard the story, however the effect that produced the
surplus energy was at best temporary. The last I heard about it, the
moped no longer ran itself, and was for sale, His email address is
alex@frolov.spb.ru, a2509@yahoo.com



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Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 22:14:36 +0000
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From: Grimer 
Subject: Re: Sprain Mag Motor
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At 10:18 am 26/02/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Nick Palmer 
>To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
>Sent: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 12:29:33 -0000
>Subject: Re: Sprain Mag Motor
>
>Terry - this motor looks like another variation on the "regauging" 
>idea. Permanent magnets on the rotor are attracted to others on the 
>perimeter, spaced progressively closer to the rotor so there is a 
>magnetic "hill" to go down. At the bottom of the hill is a pulsed 
>electromagnet to pull the rotor magnet past the bottom of the hill and 
>"regauge" it. Surely these motors fail because the amount of energy 
>needed to "regauge" is equal to, or in excess of, that which can be 
>extracted from the rotor as it goes round? 
>
><><><><><><><>
>
>I'm glad you asked. 
>
>According to the inventor, and as I observed.  The rotor will not 
>self-start.  You can place it in most any position and it will not move 
>with a load on the shaft.  Paul initiates the rotation (as can be seen 
>in the vid) by passing one of the rotor mags near the emag.  Position 
>sensors "wake up" the microcontroller, Paul gives the rotor a kick 
>start, and away she goes.
>
>Position sensors at the bottom of the shaft determine when to fire the 
>emag.  The emag (electromagnet, btw) fires just when the rotor mag 
>begins to exit the field.  The short pulse momentarily negates the 
>attracting field of the mag with the smallest airgap to the rotor 
>allowing the rotor inertia to take it over the hump and onto another 
>cycle.
>
>Now, the shaft is split between the rotor and the top bearing and load 
>device.  In the split is a $10k custom built, hall-effect torque 
>sensor.  This is the only device with which I have no experience.  I 
>will return with my ME buddy to take a look later; but, having faith in 
>who seems to be an honest inventor, I believe the device accurately 
>measures the torque on the shaft.
>
>Paul applies a load on the bearing side of the shaft with the screws 
>visible in the image:
>
>http://www.geocities.com/terry1094/load_screws.jpg
>
>The display for the load sensor reads 0.6 Newton-meters as the device 
>rotates.  The electrical pulse:
>
>http://www.geocities.com/terry1094/pulse_display.jpg
>
>Indicates less that he is inputting less than 1.1 Watt-seconds of 
>electrical energy into the pulse.  In 3*Pi radians (1.5 rotations) he 
>has input less than 3.2 Ws (3 pulses) and output around 6 Nm of 
>mechanical energy (1 Nm = 1 Ws = 1 Joule).  This is a COP of 1.88.
>
>Regauging?  Call it what you may, I think it just might be the Holy 
>Grail.
>
>Terry


£££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££

Mmm...All very interesting. It seems to me it's a bit like the SMOT 
which you mentioned in another post, only whereas the SMOT used gravity
this uses inertia as the other arm of the cycle.

The trouble with the SMOT was, it resembled the John Logie Baird TV 
system whereas the Sprain is more akin to the Philo T. Farnsworth 
system - with the difference of course that unlike the SMOT the 
Baird system did at least work, albeit crudely.

I must admit that I would be happier if the energy output was measured
by the kind of brake used to measure the output of automotive engines 
in my mechanical engineering practicals at college, i.e. by a steel
band around a flywheel with a weight hanging on the end and cooling 
water steaming away merrily.  

Still, as the good book says: 
"Blessed are those who believe and have not seen." 
or words to that effect.  8-) 

As for the emag being the Holy Grail, I would rather think it's
more akin to the Philosophers Stone which can deliver an 
inexhaustible supply of Black Gold's energy.

Frank Grimer



 







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-----Original Message-----
From: Horace Heffner 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 11:30:12 -0900
Subject: Howard Johnson Motor

If you like free energy magnet based motors then check out: 
 
http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/Howard_Johnson_Motor/index.html 
 
A number of patents there and lots of info. 
 
I still assume nothing ever came of ever came of the Takahashi motor 
Chris Tinsley and Norman Horwood, (both old vorts) looked into. I 
haven't seen any free energy scooters zipping around. 

<><><><><><><>

I have eaten on HoJo for years. 

Yeah the Kawai/Takahashi motor has a fundamental difference from the 
Sprain motor.  It's a yin/yang issue.

For now, I *will* be coy and see if Jones Beene figures out why Sprain 
is not Takahashi.  But I will send you the answer directly. 

Terry
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Frank:  Mmm...All very interesting. It seems to me it's a bit like the 
SMOT
which you mentioned in another post, only whereas the SMOT used gravity
this uses inertia as the other arm of the cycle.

Terry:  Frank, I would absolutely love to have you explain your 
theories to them.  As usual, you have hit the nail with your 
concrete-head.

Frank:  The trouble with the SMOT was, it resembled the John Logie 
Baird TV
system whereas the Sprain is more akin to the Philo T. Farnsworth
system - with the difference of course that unlike the SMOT the
Baird system did at least work, albeit crudely.

Terry:  Well, the SMOT does demonstrate ou.  You have to study this 
page carefully.

http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/smotidx.htm

JLN dropped the ball manually (fingers?) from two different heights and 
saw a difference of 55 mm in the "roll away".  Drop it from a mile and 
see more.   He then had the magnets replace his fingers.  5 mm of 
fingers vs. magnetism gave 13% of work by the magnets.

Frank:  I must admit that I would be happier if the energy output was 
measured
by the kind of brake used to measure the output of automotive engines
in my mechanical engineering practicals at college, i.e. by a steel
band around a flywheel with a weight hanging on the end and cooling
water steaming away merrily.

Terry:  Well if it comes down to it, Scott Little "Has calormetry, Will 
travel".    Actually, he would want Paul to bring his device to 
EarthTech (Austin, Tx).  And I don't think the Magmo will fit in Scotts 
box. 

Frank:  Still, as the good book says:
"Blessed are those who believe and have not seen."
or words to that effect.  8-)

Terry:  Geeze, Grimer!  Are you saying you have faith in little ole me?

Frank:  As for the emag being the Holy Grail, I would rather think it's
more akin to the Philosophers Stone which can deliver an
inexhaustible supply of Black Gold's energy.

Terry:  Yes, but from whence does that energy come?  One of the 
inventor's partners objects to the term ou.  He has a perfect right to 
do so.  Those of faith know that there is only one Source.  Physicists 
call it the big bang.  Creationists call it creation.  Both have faith 
and I am not anti-semaNtic. 










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------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Going way out on a limb, putting a few pounds of
copper, aluminum, or steel, wire sized to get an optimum electron drift speed
to entrain the (*e-) particles, in series with any of the OU electrolysis experiments 
will boost the OU yield.

Regards

Anonymous.  :-)
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8
Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII





Going way out on a limb, putting a few pounds of


copper, aluminum, or steel, wire sized to get an optimum electron drift speed


to entrain the (*e-) particles, in series with any of the OU electrolysis experiments 


will boost the OU yield.


 


Regards


 


Anonymous.  :-)

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8--


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From: Jones Beene 
Subject: Re: Howard Johnson Motor
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Coy writes,
 
> I have eaten on HoJo for years. 

Yes, but did you try all 28 ?
 
> Yeah the Kawai/Takahashi motor has a fundamental
> difference from the 
> Sprain motor.  It's a yin/yang issue.

Attraction, repulsion, detraction, revulsion - Ok, but
that is seemingly superficial... so how do you break
symmetry and make it non-conservative ...?  Please
tell me that there is a noticeable temperature drop
during operation, and I will be looking for a cheap
flight out there.
 
> For now, I *will* be Coy and see if Jones Beene
> figures out why Sprain is not Takahashi.  

Well, its a good think that its not Takahashi... as
Mark Goldes will tell you... and Mark is not one to be
skeptical of magnetic motors... nor am I ...IF there
is at the very least, some logical (or even illogical
way) that it can tap into that aforementioned
primordial energy - whether it be ZPE or by some other
name... but nevertheless, winderskins or no (and yes I
do have Scottish genes but not necessarily of the
tight fitting Beene-Jean variety) .... i.e. not a
large dose of natural skepticism (believe it or
not)... yet, there are many warning flags here....

Still thinking about it... but I wish there was at
least an arc discharge in the mix somewhere. BTW I
will wager a bet (a double dip of all 28?) that Scott
Little can tell you without even much effort "why"
that pulse power measurement could be easily
incorrect, despite scope reading to the contrary -
give him a buzz.

Jones

BTW... and speaking of the sugar-buzz and all those
choices... (Salt Water Taffy is NOT one of the
aforementioned 28)... and Vanilla was still always the
best. Here's the list:

Banana
Black Raspberry
Burgundy Cherry
Butter Pecan
Buttercruch
Butterscotch
Caramel Fudge
Chocolate
Chocolate Chip
Coconut
Coffee
Frozen Pudding
Fruit Salad
Fudge Ripple
Lemon Stick
Macaroon
Maple Walnut
Mocha Chip
Orange-Pineapple
Peach
Peanut Brittle
Pecan Brittle
Peppermint Stick
Pineapple
Pistachio
Strawberry
Strawberry Ripple
Vanilla

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-----Original Message-----
From: Jones Beene 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 15:45:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Howard Johnson Motor

Coy (Terry) writes:

> I have eaten on HoJo for years. 

Yes, but did you try all 28 ?

Terry:  Sorry, type 2 diabetes.

> Yeah the Kawai/Takahashi motor has a fundamental
> difference from the
> Sprain motor.  It's a yin/yang issue.

Attraction, repulsion, detraction, revulsion - Ok, but
that is seemingly superficial... so how do you break
symmetry and make it non-conservative ...?  Please
tell me that there is a noticeable temperature drop
during operation, and I will be looking for a cheap
flight out there.

Terry:  Well, I can't explain.  I don't really know WTF magnetism is.  
But it *was* chilly in his garage now that you mention it. 

I do have an idea of why Takahashi doesn't work.  Magnets in repulsion 
will tend to destory spin alignments; whereas, magnetics in attraction 
will support those alignments.  Then there's Harold Aspden; but, I 
doubt you're willing to go there . . . yet. 



... yet, there are many warning flags here....

Terry:  Bring out they semaphores because Paul has gotten me involved 
for just this very reason.

Still thinking about it... but I wish there was at
least an arc discharge in the mix somewhere. BTW I
will wager a bet (a double dip of all 28?) that Scott
Little can tell you without even much effort "why"
that pulse power measurement could be easily
incorrect, despite scope reading to the contrary -
give him a buzz.

Terry:  Well, Scott rebuffed me when I asked him to look into MAHG.  
Could you offer another choice?

Jones

BTW... and speaking of the sugar-buzz and all those
choices... (Salt Water Taffy is NOT one of the
aforementioned 28)... and Vanilla was still always the
best. Here's the list:

Banana
Black Raspberry
Burgundy Cherry
Butter Pecan
Buttercruch
Butterscotch
Caramel Fudge
Chocolate
Chocolate Chip
Coconut
Coffee
Frozen Pudding
Fruit Salad
Fudge Ripple
Lemon Stick
Macaroon
Maple Walnut
Mocha Chip
Orange-Pineapple
Peach
Peanut Brittle
Pecan Brittle
Peppermint Stick
Pineapple
Pistachio
Strawberry
Strawberry Ripple
Vanilla


Terry:  What?!?  No beer?

___________________________________________________
Try the New Netscape Mail Today!
Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List
http://mail.netscape.com

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Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 16:19:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Jones Beene 
Subject: RE: Primordial Electronium Sources
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--- Fred the Anonymous  writes,

> putting a few pounds of copper, aluminum, or steel,
wire sized to get an
> optimum electron drift speed to entrain the (*e-)
particles, in series with any
> of the OU electrolysis experiments will boost the OU
yield.


How does one "size" the different kinds of wire to get
the optimum drift speed?

And... if there is some fundamental difference in
either the free electron, or the (*e-) triad, compared
to when either is bound in the valence electron cloud,
then how does one get the free variety "into" a
conductor efficiently ?  ... VDG belt ?


From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Feb 26 16:59:50 2006
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Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 16:59:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Jones Beene 
Subject: Re: Howard Johnson Motor
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
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> Terry:  Well, Scott rebuffed me when I asked him to
> look into MAHG.  Could you offer another choice?


Yes. George Holz is also an expert at these pulse
power issues, as are several others who tune-in here
on occassion. Now that the Winter Olympics are ending,
maybe one of them will be bored enough to check this
device out.

George may not be subscribed to vortex now, but if you
do not have his email address, I can send it to you on
Wednesday when I get back home ... (and hopefully back
on a computer with a spell checker ... although mine
routinely takes so many 'breaks' that it hardly
qualifies .... ain't technology great?

Jones

From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Feb 26 17:50:36 2006
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From: "Frederick Sparber" 
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Jones wrote,
>
>
> --- Fred the Anonymous  writes,
>
> > putting a few pounds of copper, aluminum, or steel,
> wire sized to get an
> > optimum electron drift speed to entrain the (*e-)
> particles, in series with any
> > of the OU electrolysis experiments will boost the OU
> yield.
>
>
> How does one "size" the different kinds of wire to get
> the optimum drift speed?
>
Easy, after I looked it up. :-)
Current density J = amperes/area.  For a 0.001 meter diameter copper wire
carrying 20 amps
J = 20/0.25 (Pi)(0.001)^2  = 2.54e^7 amperes/meter^2  
At  N = 8.5e^28 free electrons/meter^3 for copper:
Then v = J/N*q =  2.54e^7/8.5e^28 * 1.6e^-19 = 1.87e^-3 meters/sec or 1.87 
mm/sec.

But you don't want to spend your OU money on I^2R heat loss.
>
> And... if there is some fundamental difference in
> either the free electron, or the (*e-) triad, compared
> to when either is bound in the valence electron cloud,
> then how does one get the free variety "into" a
> conductor efficiently ?  ... VDG belt ?
>
Nope, just assume that Nature put it there. Even a neutral gas impinging
on a metal surface can exchange electrons with it. 

Diffusion, chemical processes, radioactivity etc., over billions
of years...

Fred the Anonymous



From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Sun Feb 26 23:23:39 2006
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Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 07:03:18 +0000
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At 05:30 pm 26/02/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Horace Heffner 
>To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
>Sent: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 11:30:12 -0900
>Subject: Howard Johnson Motor
>
>If you like free energy magnet based motors then check out: 
> 
>http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/Howard_Johnson_Motor/index.html 
> 
>A number of patents there and lots of info. 
> 
>I still assume nothing ever came of ever came of the Takahashi motor 
>Chris Tinsley and Norman Horwood, (both old vorts) looked into. I 
>haven't seen any free energy scooters zipping around. 
>
><><><><><><><>
>
>I have eaten on HoJo for years. 
>
>Yeah the Kawai/Takahashi motor has a fundamental difference from the 
>Sprain motor.  It's a yin/yang issue.
>
>For now, I *will* be coy and see if Jones Beene figures out why Sprain 
>is not Takahashi.  But I will send you the answer directly. 
>
>Terry


£££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££

Funny you should ask "...why Sprain is not Takahashi" cos I think I
may have the answer.

Let us suppose that Sprain is a quasi-heat-pump drawing energy from 
the depths of the Beta-atmosphere - from the same kind of random 
motion that conventional heat pumps draw energy from the  Alpha-
atmosphere - but on a much finer scale.

This means that we are dealing with a quasi-Carnot cycle. The effect
of reversing the magnetic action from repulsion to attraction (G-a
pressure to B-a pressure) implies we are travelling round the cycle in
the opposite direction - we are running a refrigeration cycle in other
words and getting more energy out than we are putting in.

Now it is very easy in principle to prove this. All one needs to do 
is to reverse everything on Sprain's engine thereby turning it into 
a Takahashi engine. If this change results in a COP of (1/1.8) = 0.56 
then one has a very seductive scientific explanation of what is going 
on; seductive that is to scientists, as opposed to investors who 
wouldn't understand what one is talking about.  8-) 

Cheers,

Frank Grimer









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At 07:15 pm 26/02/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jones Beene 
>To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
>Sent: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 15:45:17 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: Re: Howard Johnson Motor

[snip]

>Terry:  Well, Scott rebuffed me when I asked him to look into MAHG.  


My only contact with Scott persuaded me that he had a 
bad case of the NIH (not invented here) disease.

Frank

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From: "Frederick Sparber" 
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Subject: RE: Primordial Electronium Sources
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Possible ways for (*e-) to end up in copper, aluminum, or steel. If it
exists.

Copper Processing:

http://www.p2pays.org/ref/01/text/00778/chapter5.htm

Aluminum Smelting and Refining:

http://www.p2pays.org/ref/01/text/00778/chapter4.htm

Steel Making:

http://www.p2pays.org/ref/01/text/00778/chapter2.htm

>
> Jones wrote,
> >
> >
> > --- Fred the Anonymous  writes,
> >
> > > putting a few pounds of copper, aluminum, or steel,
> > wire sized to get an
> > > optimum electron drift speed to entrain the (*e-)
> > particles, in series with any
> > > of the OU electrolysis experiments will boost the OU
> > yield.
> >
> >
> > How does one "size" the different kinds of wire to get
> > the optimum drift speed?
> >
> Easy, after I looked it up. :-)
> Current density J = amperes/area.  For a 0.001 meter diameter copper wire
> carrying 20 amps
> J = 20/0.25 (Pi)(0.001)^2  = 2.54e^7 amperes/meter^2  
> At  N = 8.5e^28 free electrons/meter^3 for copper:
> Then v = J/N*q =  2.54e^7/8.5e^28 * 1.6e^-19 = 1.87e^-3 meters/sec or
1.87 
> mm/sec.
>
> But you don't want to spend your OU money on I^2R heat loss.
> >
> > And... if there is some fundamental difference in
> > either the free electron, or the (*e-) triad, compared
> > to when either is bound in the valence electron cloud,
> > then how does one get the free variety "into" a
> > conductor efficiently ?  ... VDG belt ?
> >
> Nope, just assume that Nature put it there. Even a neutral gas impinging
> on a metal surface can exchange electrons with it. 
>
> Diffusion, chemical processes, radioactivity etc., over billions
> of years...
>
> Fred the Anonymous
>
>
>



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The index covers most of the metals of interest.

Good stuff.

Primary Metals Table of Contents

http://www.p2pays.org/ref/01/text/00778/intro1.htm
>
> Possible ways for (*e-) to end up in copper, aluminum, or steel. If it
> exists.
>





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When positrons annihilate in Iodine-125 Auger electrons come off
instead of the  0.510 Mev gammas.

Does this happen in Deuterium-loaded Pd for D+D ---> He4 ?

http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:oeSZxwaLGmUJ:www.scitec.ch/0-87849-636-x+%22Auger+Electron+Emission%22+palladium&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=25


Positron Annihilation Study of Palladium-Deuterium System
Helium in Palladium Studied by Positron Annihilation

Investigation of Positron States at the Cs/Cu(100) Surface Using Positron Annihilation Induced Auger Electron Spectroscopy (PAES) 

Positron Annihilation Induced Auger Electron Emission from Polycrystalline Fe, Cu, Pd and Au

Positron and Positronium Localization in Liquids and Gases 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8
Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII





When positrons annihilate in Iodine-125 Auger electrons come off


instead of the  0.510 Mev gammas.


 


Does this happen in Deuterium-loaded Pd for D+D ---> He4 ?


 



 


 



 



 



------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8--


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The X-ray yield (%)  for a material ~ = 1.216e-7 * Z * Volts (about 1% efficiency for tungsten, Z = 74
at 100 kilovolts, or 0.56% for Pd at 100 kilovolts, Z = 46.

In the D+D ---> He4 + 24 Mev reaction in Pd is an Auger Effect "Cascade"
yielding mostly heat?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Frederick Sparber 
To: vortex-l
Sent: 2/27/2006 4:42:57 AM 
Subject: Re: Positrons & Auger Electron Emission 


When positrons annihilate in Iodine-125 Auger electrons come off
instead of the  0.510 Mev gammas.

Does this happen in Deuterium-loaded Pd for D+D ---> He4 ?

http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:oeSZxwaLGmUJ:www.scitec.ch/0-87849-636-x+%22Auger+Electron+Emission%22+palladium&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=25


Positron Annihilation Study of Palladium-Deuterium System
Helium in Palladium Studied by Positron Annihilation

Investigation of Positron States at the Cs/Cu(100) Surface Using Positron Annihilation Induced Auger Electron Spectroscopy (PAES) 

Positron Annihilation Induced Auger Electron Emission from Polycrystalline Fe, Cu, Pd and Au

Positron and Positronium Localization in Liquids and Gases 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8
Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII







The X-ray yield (%)  for a material ~ = 1.216e-7 * Z * Volts (about 1% efficiency for tungsten, Z = 74


at 100 kilovolts, or 0.56% for Pd at 100 kilovolts, Z = 46.


 


In the D+D ---> He4 + 24 Mev reaction in Pd is an Auger Effect "Cascade"


yielding mostly heat?


 




----- Original Message ----- 




Sent: 2/27/2006 4:42:57 AM 


Subject: Re: Positrons & Auger Electron Emission 





When positrons annihilate in Iodine-125 Auger electrons come off


instead of the  0.510 Mev gammas.


 


Does this happen in Deuterium-loaded Pd for D+D ---> He4 ?


 



 


 



 



 




------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8--


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-----Original Message-----
From: Grimer


>Terry:  Well, Scott rebuffed me when I asked him to look into MAHG.


My only contact with Scott persuaded me that he had a
bad case of the NIH (not invented here) disease.

<><><><><><><>

In Scott's defense, he says he is semi-retired and doesn't jump on 
every device which appears in:

http://www.infinite-energy.com/

like he used to.  AND, clearly, there is the possibility of a 
measurement error in the MAHG device.  As Scott, et.al. have pointed 
out, his output was strangely inversely propotional to the duty cycle.

Terry
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-----Original Message-----
From: Grimer



>Yeah the Kawai/Takahashi motor has a fundamental difference from the
>Sprain motor.  It's a yin/yang issue.
>
>For now, I *will* be coy and see if Jones Beene figures out why Sprain
>is not Takahashi.  But I will send you the answer directly. 
>
>Terry


£££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££

Funny you should ask "...why Sprain is not Takahashi" cos I think I
may have the answer.

Let us suppose that Sprain is a quasi-heat-pump drawing energy from
the depths of the Beta-atmosphere - from the same kind of random
motion that conventional heat pumps draw energy from the  Alpha-
atmosphere - but on a much finer scale.

This means that we are dealing with a quasi-Carnot cycle. The effect
of reversing the magnetic action from repulsion to attraction (G-a
pressure to B-a pressure) implies we are travelling round the cycle in
the opposite direction - we are running a refrigeration cycle in other
words and getting more energy out than we are putting in.

Now it is very easy in principle to prove this. All one needs to do
is to reverse everything on Sprain's engine thereby turning it into
a Takahashi engine. If this change results in a COP of (1/1.8) = 0.56
then one has a very seductive scientific explanation of what is going
on; seductive that is to scientists, as opposed to investors who
wouldn't understand what one is talking about.  8-)

Cheers,

Frank Grimer

<><><><><><><>

Okay, I have bcc this to the inventor.  Paul, I'm sure there's a lot in 
Grimer's post you don't understand.  There's a lot that I don't 
understand about Frank's theory.  AAMOF, there are few who follow 
Frank's reasoning.  That given, two questions:

1)  Did you ever attempt to run the motor with the mags in opposition?

2)  If so what was your best COP?

Regards,

Terry







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-----Original Message-----
From: hohlrauml6d



AND, clearly, there is the possibility of a measurement error in the 
MAHG device. As Scott, et.al. have pointed out, his output was 
strangely inversely propotional to the duty cycle. 


<><><><><><><>

To avoid confusion, the antecedent for "his" is intended to be 
Jean-Louis Naudin.

Terry
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Subject: Re: Sprain Mag Motor
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 06:52:18 -0800
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: 


[snip]

> http://www.geocities.com/terry1094/pulse_display.jpg

> Indicates less that he is inputting less than 1.1 Watt-seconds of 
> electrical energy into the pulse.  In 3*Pi radians (1.5 rotations) he has 
> input less than 3.2 Ws (3 pulses) and output around 6 Nm of mechanical 
> energy (1 Nm = 1 Ws = 1 Joule).  This is a COP of 1.88.

> Regauging?  Call it what you may, I think it just might be the Holy Grail.

> Terry

Just curious as to the calibration/div for the current probe used on Ch2 to 
arrive at your energy calc above?

Jon F 

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Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 12:00:21 -0500
From: George Holz 
Subject: Re: Sprain Mag Motor
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
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Hi Jones and Terry,

I am almost always subscribed to vortex-l, but I
do not read every post.  Magnetic motors are one of
my main interests.

Terry posted:

> http://www.geocities.com/terry1094/pulse_display.jpg
>
>Indicates less that he is inputting less than 1.1 Watt-seconds of 
>electrical energy into the pulse.  In 3*Pi radians (1.5 rotations) he 
>has input less than 3.2 Ws (3 pulses) and output around 6 Nm of 
>mechanical energy (1 Nm = 1 Ws = 1 Joule).  This is a COP of 1.88.

I presume that channel 1 in the scope photo is the voltage waveform.
What is the channel two waveform? It looks like the voltage across a
current sampling resistor in series with the solenoid. What is the value of
the sampling resistor?
The mechanical energy output looks more difficult to verify.  
The only proof of utility that would be convincing is a
self runner. Put an efficient permanent magnet generator on
the shaft and measure the electrical output as a next step
toward a self runner. An electrical to electrical energy comparison
would be more convincing. 

George Holz
Varitronics Systems






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Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:47:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Jones Beene 
Subject: The Allure of "Selective" torque
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The Sprain Motor, in the context of the so-called
"Magnetic Wankel" brings up a salient point which was
never adequately addressed during the previous episode
of Takahishi a decade ago.

That is the potential advantage of using modern
electronics to provide what (for lack of a better
term) can be called the 'selective application of
torque'. This is a subset of a putative 'low-duty
anomaly' which is arguably present in a number of
physical systems, for which there is also no real
proof - but some tantalizing hints. And when one is
operating on-the-fringe, and following the jagged
cutting-edge, then one often pays some attention to
tantalizing hints - as unproven as they may be.

The logic (or at least the nice-sounding argument) is
this. IF an electric pulse can be translated into
torque at high efficiency (say 95%+) then - when you
compare two situations:

1) the uniform application of torque over a complete
revolution of an axle through a 360 degree cycle -
compared with:

2) the uneven and pulsed application of much more
torque to only a few degrees of rotation, with the
assumption that in both cases the net energy expended
is equal...

Then, in situation #2, compared with situation #1 -
and all else being equal - there 'could be' a net
advantage (due to a combination of factors including
leverage, momentum, the Aspden effect, better
utilization of back EMf, etc.)

I will agree that none of these, standing alone, makes
much sense (other than the Aspden effect, which might
involve the "circular polarization" of some kind of
'aether friction' but that is not a terribly robust
effect, even if it is valid.) There are also some
possible hints of anomalous energy phenomena in
low-duty cycles of electrical discharge which may
involve higher effective voltage from the same net
energy. The assumption being that uniform discharges
can inhibit the high end of a Maxwellian distribution.

We often think of this kind of selective torque being
most evident in the the child's swing - where the
energy expended to keep moving ever higher is most
valuable only in a very short segment of each cycle.

For another more relevant example - let's consider the
situation of a bicyclist who wants to get the most
possible boost out of lightweight battery which he/she
is using for auxiliary power. In that case, pulsing
the same amount of net energy over only the few
degrees of the cranking cycle, when the cyclist can
also best use his own physical exertion for leverage
(at about 3 O'clock and 9 O'clock of the cranking
cycle) ... this selective application of torque also
makes some sense, compared to a constant input. Both
the bicyclist and the child are using leverage, of
course, and we normally do not think of that as being
applicable to a constant rotation situation- but in
the case of the cyclist - we can see how it can
possibly be an advantage.

Also in the sense of the Aspden-effect being
non-linear, such that a very short boost over a very
small slice of that 360 degrees, makes even more sense
if the curve of non-linearity is very steep at the
start... well, you can see where this is going.

"Selective torque" would not favor the Sprain
implementation (any more than the previous Takahishi
version) - on the surface at least. Terry mentioned
some advantage to attraction vs. repulsion, but I have
heard the opposite argument as well. The great
difference now, over the situation a decade ago, is
the advances which have been made in fast electronics
- which can now (conceivably) make any slight effect
more interesting.

Lets say that the Takahishi motor used a pulse over 5%
of the cycle (or 18 degrees). Lets say Sprain has
advanced this so that now he can apply the same power
to just 6 degrees of the cycle. This is interesting in
an anecdotal sense in that in two cases which I have
been involved in, there is evidence that the putative
"low-duty" advantage kicks in at 5% and is maximized
at around 2%. Admittedly, this is anecdotal and the
evidence is light - but still, I find this fascinating
- especially in the context to the Aspen effect (the
magnetic and the non-magnetic versions of that
effect).

At any rate, there are some ways to maximize this
selective torque effect in the both Aspden and the
fully leveraged contexts - which are being neglected
by Sprain, and were missed by Takahishi as well.
Perhaps that is where he is going with the next
generation.

Jones

From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Feb 27 10:17:53 2006
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-----Original Message-----
From: George Holz

George: I presume that channel 1 in the scope photo is the voltage 
waveform.
What is the channel two waveform? It looks like the voltage across a
current sampling resistor in series with the solenoid. What is the 
value of
the sampling resistor?

Terry: No, the input is a current probe:

Here are the specs (thanks Keith):

http://assets.fluke.com/datasheets/80i-110s-Spexs.pdf

Here's a piccy in operation:

http://www.geocities.com/terry1094/current_probe.JPG

George:  The mechanical energy output looks more difficult to verify.
The only proof of utility that would be convincing is a
self runner. Put an efficient permanent magnet generator on
the shaft and measure the electrical output as a next step
toward a self runner. An electrical to electrical energy comparison
would be more convincing.

Terry:  Agreed on sefl-running.  However, he only has about 2 Joules 
per cycle to play with.  His torque measurement device was custom make 
and the sensor cost him $10k.  BTW, for the next iteration, Paul has 
publicly claimed he hopes to have a COP of 20 with plenty energy to 
self run and drive an electric load.

Where are you located, George?

Terry





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From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Feb 27 10:19:39 2006
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-----Original Message-----
From: jonfli
 
Just curious as to the calibration/div for the current probe used on 
Ch2 to arrive at your energy calc above? 

<><><><><><><><>

See the post to George on the probe specs.  Does that answer your 
question?

Terry
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From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Feb 27 11:04:44 2006
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Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 19:04:27 +0000
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
From: Grimer 
Subject: Re: The Allure of "Selective" torque
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At 09:47 am 27/02/2006 -0800, you wrote:
>The Sprain Motor, in the context of the so-called
>"Magnetic Wankel" brings up a salient point which was
>never adequately addressed during the previous episode
>of Takahishi a decade ago.
>
>That is the potential advantage of using modern
>electronics to provide what (for lack of a better
>term) can be called the 'selective application of
>torque'. This is a subset of a putative 'low-duty
>anomaly' which is arguably present in a number of
>physical systems, for which there is also no real
>proof - but some tantalizing hints. And when one is
>operating on-the-fringe, and following the jagged
>cutting-edge, then one often pays some attention to
>tantalizing hints - as unproven as they may be.
>
>The logic (or at least the nice-sounding argument) is
>this. IF an electric pulse can be translated into
>torque at high efficiency (say 95%+) then - when you
>compare two situations:
>
>1) the uniform application of torque over a complete
>revolution of an axle through a 360 degree cycle -
>compared with:
>
>2) the uneven and pulsed application of much more
>torque to only a few degrees of rotation, with the
>assumption that in both cases the net energy expended
>is equal...
>
>Then, in situation #2, compared with situation #1 -
>and all else being equal - there 'could be' a net
>advantage (due to a combination of factors including
>leverage, momentum, the Aspden effect, better
>utilization of back EMf, etc.)
>
>I will agree that none of these, standing alone, makes
>much sense (other than the Aspden effect, which might
>involve the "circular polarization" of some kind of
>'aether friction' but that is not a terribly robust
>effect, even if it is valid.) There are also some
>possible hints of anomalous energy phenomena in
>low-duty cycles of electrical discharge which may
>involve higher effective voltage from the same net
>energy. The assumption being that uniform discharges
>can inhibit the high end of a Maxwellian distribution.
>
>We often think of this kind of selective torque being
>most evident in the the child's swing - where the
>energy expended to keep moving ever higher is most
>valuable only in a very short segment of each cycle.
>
>For another more relevant example - let's consider the
>situation of a bicyclist who wants to get the most
>possible boost out of lightweight battery which he/she
>is using for auxiliary power. In that case, pulsing
>the same amount of net energy over only the few
>degrees of the cranking cycle, when the cyclist can
>also best use his own physical exertion for leverage
>(at about 3 O'clock and 9 O'clock of the cranking
>cycle) ... this selective application of torque also
>makes some sense, compared to a constant input. Both
>the bicyclist and the child are using leverage, of
>course, and we normally do not think of that as being
>applicable to a constant rotation situation- but in
>the case of the cyclist - we can see how it can
>possibly be an advantage.
>
>Also in the sense of the Aspden-effect being
>non-linear, such that a very short boost over a very
>small slice of that 360 degrees, makes even more sense
>if the curve of non-linearity is very steep at the
>start... well, you can see where this is going.
>
>"Selective torque" would not favor the Sprain
>implementation (any more than the previous Takahishi
>version) - on the surface at least. Terry mentioned
>some advantage to attraction vs. repulsion, but I have
>heard the opposite argument as well. The great
>difference now, over the situation a decade ago, is
>the advances which have been made in fast electronics
>- which can now (conceivably) make any slight effect
>more interesting.
>
>Lets say that the Takahishi motor used a pulse over 5%
>of the cycle (or 18 degrees). Lets say Sprain has
>advanced this so that now he can apply the same power
>to just 6 degrees of the cycle. This is interesting in
>an anecdotal sense in that in two cases which I have
>been involved in, there is evidence that the putative
>"low-duty" advantage kicks in at 5% and is maximized
>at around 2%. Admittedly, this is anecdotal and the
>evidence is light - but still, I find this fascinating
>- especially in the context to the Aspen effect (the
>magnetic and the non-magnetic versions of that
>effect).
>
>At any rate, there are some ways to maximize this
>selective torque effect in the both Aspden and the
>fully leveraged contexts - which are being neglected
>by Sprain, and were missed by Takahishi as well.
>Perhaps that is where he is going with the next
>generation.
>
>Jones


I'm not quite sure what you're torquing about, Jones,
but I found the swing bit so interesting that I 
actually googled to find exactly how it worked.  

Frank

From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Feb 27 11:13:08 2006
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From: Grimer 
Subject: Re: Sprain Mag Motor
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At 01:17 pm 27/02/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: George Holz

>> George:The mechanical energy output looks more difficult to verify.
>> The only proof of utility that would be convincing is a
>> self runner. Put an efficient permanent magnet generator on
>> the shaft and measure the electrical output as a next step
>> toward a self runner. An electrical to electrical energy
>> comparison would be more convincing.
>
> Terry: Agreed on sefl-running.  However, he only has about 2 Joules 
> per cycle to play with.  His torque measurement device was custom  
> make and the sensor cost him $10k.  BTW, for the next iteration,  
> Paul has publicly claimed he hopes to have a COP of 20 with plenty  
> energy to self run and drive an electric load.


I admire his "sefl"confidence.  ;-)

Frank



From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Feb 27 13:01:36 2006
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Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 16:02:26 -0500
From: George Holz 
Subject: Re: Sprain Mag Motor
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> Terry: No, the input is a current probe:
> 
> Here are the specs (thanks Keith):
> 
> http://assets.fluke.com/datasheets/80i-110s-Spexs.pdf
> 
> Here's a piccy in operation:
> 
> http://www.geocities.com/terry1094/current_probe.JPG

George: I cannot tell from the picture the range to which the
current probe is set. If it is the 10 Amp range , then the 100 mv/amp
signal would give an energy per pulse from the scope waveforms
essentially equal to your calculation of 1.1 Joules per pulse.
This is an appropriate measurement technique and the probe
bandwidth should be sufficient for accurate measurement.
Please verify the range setting on the probe.


> Terry:  Agreed on sefl-running.  However, he only has about 2 Joules 
> per cycle to play with.  His torque measurement device was custom make 
> and the sensor cost him $10k.  BTW, for the next iteration, Paul has 
> publicly claimed he hopes to have a COP of 20 with plenty energy to 
> self run and drive an electric load.

Scaling a device whose OU mechanism is not well understood
is extremely difficult. From experience, it is difficult even when
the mechanism is fairly well understood.

> Where are you located, George?

In central New Jersey, my office is on US Hwy 22 East in Bound Brook.

George Holz
Varitronics Systems


From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Feb 27 13:06:40 2006
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To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
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Subject: Update on Energy Costs
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 12:06:19 -0900
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Please let me know if any numbers look wrong.  The following data and  
references are related to

http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/BigPicture.pdf,

especially the data in Table 1, repeated immediately below.


    Table 1 - Current energy plant capital cost in $/W

    Gas turbine  0.5
    Wind         2.0
    Solar tower  2.5
    Nuclear      6.0


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Gas turbine cost ($0.50/W)

See:

http://www.uaf.edu/energyin/webpage/pages/heat_engines/ 
steam_and_gas_turbines.htm

which shows $0.80/W  to $2.00/W "depending on environmental  
permitting requirements".  Also see,

http://www.power-technology.com/projects/tiverton/

which shows a cost of about $0.65/W for a specific plant.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Wind plant cost ($2.00/W)

See:

http://www.awea.org/pubs/factsheets/EconomicsOfWind-Feb2005.pdf

page 3, which shows typical wind capital cost, including financing,  
at $1.30/W, well under the $2.00/W used in Table 1.  It gets cheaper  
every year.

Page 2 shows the cost of a 1.65-MW turbine is $0.79/W, but actual  
power can come in at about 1/3 the nameplate rating, which gives  
about $2.40/W.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Solar Tower - also known as Solar Chimney  ($2.00/W)

http://www.visionengineer.com/env/solar_flue2.shtml

shows the Midura, Australia project is supposedly going to come in at  
$395M for a 200MW tower, producing 500 GWh/Yr.  That is $1.95/W.   
However, that is a first of kind project.  At 500 GWh/yr, or 57 MW  
avg, that is a whopping $6.90/W.  Though a very high capital cost, it  
is comparable to nuclear, considering the cost of decommissioning and  
cost and risk of addressing terrorist threats.  The structure has the  
potential added bonus of providing greenhouse space.

The book *The Solar Chimney, Electricity from the Sun" by Jorg  
Schlaich, page 40, shows $4.20/W in 1995 cost for a 100 MW plant,  
after conversion from DM.

See bottom of:

http://www.volker-quaschning.de/articles/fundamentals2/index_e.html

which shows a cost of $2.40/W to $6.00/W depending on size.

Cost of the technology should drop dramatically, if installed  
worldwide, just like the cost of wind power has.  There is the  
possibility that building solar towers up mountainsides would  
significantly reduce cost while increasing chimney height, and permit  
effective use of Bernoulli pressure drop due to wind power as well.   
Since the solar energy conversion efficiency of the towers is only  
about 1 percent, there is much room for technological improvement  
through engineering.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Solar Dish with Sterling Engine

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/11/041110163722.htm
http://www.sandia.gov/news-center/news-releases/2004/renew-energy- 
batt/Stirling.html

Sandia labs model 25 kW at $50,000, or $2.00/W but daytime only.   
This is thus also close to $6.00/W, but has the major drawback of not  
producing power 24 hours a day.

Solar dish technology also makes possible home built home heating or  
hot water heating applications at under $0.50/W:

http://www.harbornet.com/sunflower/

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Nuclear

A $6/W figure is higher than can be achieved technically, but  
reflects todays political realities.   It is probably low considering  
security impact on design and construction and the anticipated high  
cost of capital soon to follow after general awareness that oil has  
peaked.  It is also notable that nuclear plants are not a solution to  
*world* energy problems.  It is not appropriate technology for many  
locations.

Construction

"Nuclear power plants that should have cost between $500 million and  
$1 billion, had their final costs escalate up to 10 times that  
amount, over the course of construction, thanks to unreasonable  
regulations by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, and the stretch-out  
of schedules over bogus “environmental and safety” concerns. Note  
that GE and other U.S. firms currently build 1,000 MW and larger  
nuclear units in Japan, Korea, and Taiwan in 4 to 5 years."

Sample plant construction costs shown are in the range of $2/W to $4/ 
W.  See:

http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/spring01/ 
nuclear_power.html


Decommissioning:
"Demolishing the plant and shipping the waste will cost $500 million,  
more than twice the $231 million the plant cost to build (although  
that was in 1972, when a dollar bought more concrete than it does  
today.) The job is 61 percent done and on budget, managers say." ...  
"Maine Yankee is a single-unit plant, about two-thirds the size of  
Indian Point 2 or 3 in New York, which suggests the cost of  
decommissioning a plant the size of Indian Point could well exceed $1  
billion...".  See:

http://www.mindfully.org/Nucs/Demolition-NPP-Problems14may02.htm
http://www.power-technology.com/projects/maine/

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Solar collection and silicon energy transport and storage:


http://www.dbresearch.com/PROD/DBR_INTERNET_EN-PROD/ 
PROD0000000000079095.PDF

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Other energy figures (updated to 2004) can be found at:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/aer/

or:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/aer/pdf/aer.pdf
  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Feb 27 13:38:44 2006
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Horace Heffner wrote:

>Page 2 shows the cost of a 1.65-MW turbine is $0.79/W, but actual 
>power can come in at about 1/3 the nameplate rating, which gives about $2.40/W.

That adjustment is reasonable, but it complicates things. By the same 
token, you might adjust nuclear power, because nuclear power plants 
are used roughly 90% of the time. I believe the Davis-Besse plant 
been off-line for years, waiting for repairs. You should multiply 
that one by infinity I guess.

Other generators are online about half or a third of the the time, 
because the demand for power goes down at night. They could be run 
more but there is no need for them so it is not fair to adjust the 
nameplate value. Then again, they could not be run 100% of the time, 
because they do require maintenance. Probably ~90% is the limit. Some 
generator type such as diesel are only run occasionally, when peak 
power is needed, because the fuel is much more expensive per kWh.

I would say it is reasonable to adjust the cost of a nuclear plant 
because they are baseline plants which are left running as many hours 
per year as possible, whereas it makes no sense to adjust the cost of 
a diesel or gas turbine plant.

If you really want to complicate things, try taking into account 
"environmental, safety and health (ES&H) characteristics." In other 
words, how much does a coal fired plant cost when you include, let us 
say, $1 million for every person it kills with pollution, and 
$100,000 for every 10 years of life spent in disabled bad health. 
That would make the cost of coal go through the roof. Or, for 
example, consider what happens to the price of oil when you factor in 
the cost of the Iraqi war. (A small amount of oil is used to generate 
electricity.)

You might add in the cost of mining accidents and $1 million per 
miner killed in accidents. You might try to account for people killed 
or disabled in conventional thermal power plants. Wind power has the 
best safety record of any large-scale generation source, because it 
happens to be the most modern, and because there are not many ways to 
kill yourself with a wind turbine. Just about the only casualties are 
during construction. Modern combustion plants are quite safe, but 
accidents occur at the older plants and in third world plants. (There 
are no third-world wind turbines, except in India.)

Of course it is impossible to get an accurate estimate of such 
things, but this discussion does indicate that the obvious, easily 
measured costs -- such as the cost of the equipment -- may not be a 
useful guide to the actual society-wide dollar cost of energy.

This is an interesting and complicated subject.

- Jed


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Subject: Re: The Allure of "Selective" torque
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BlankHowdy Jones.

Not only " tantalizing" but downright insightful. Oh so many years ago =
while doing a design study on a stepless variable torque proportioning =
differential gear setup for a dual rotor heliocopter, the study led to =
the possibility of performing the function electronically... sorry , no =
electronics in those days.. fast forward to year 2000 and Shazaam! =
Nissian Motors hae the " darn thing" and it is even more amazing then we =
conceived. Nissian has more than half the solution to the firing circuit =
needed for a true mag motor.

The solution to the use of permanent magnets adjustable to rotational =
torque anomalies is to think " differential torque" which can be phased =
" locked and unlocked". Electronics can achieve this type of " firing =
circuit"

Richard


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Blank






Howdy Jones.


 


Not only " tantalizing" but downright insightful. Oh so many years =
ago=20
while doing a design study on a stepless variable torque proportioning=20
differential gear setup for a dual rotor heliocopter, the study led to =
the=20
possibility of performing the function electronically... sorry , no =
electronics=20
in those days.. fast forward to year 2000 and Shazaam! Nissian Motors =
hae the "=20
darn thing" and it is even more amazing then we conceived. Nissian has =
more than=20
half the solution to the firing circuit needed for a true mag =
motor.


 


The solution to the use of permanent magnets adjustable to =
rotational=20
torque anomalies is to think " differential torque" which can be phased =
" locked=20
and unlocked". Electronics can achieve this type of " firing =
circuit"


 


Richard


 


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From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Feb 27 13:50:39 2006
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Subject: Re: Sprain Mag Motor
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Terry,

Yes, thank you. However, the CH2 Mean measurement of 71.3mv isn't accurate 
because it appears to be > 200mv!  I assume the probe was set at 0-10A with 
an output of 10mv/Amp, this makes the input current measurement on CH2 to be 
 > 2A Mean.

The CH1 voltage measurement seems to indicate the coil is driven from a 
positive supply thru a P-Channel FET or equiv and the power supply voltage 
is ~20Vdc judging from the CH1 vertical cal at 4.52v/div!?

The pulse width measurements are different between CH1 and CH2 so, taking 
the longer CH1 duration of 27.5ms, these measurements yield > 1.1J/pulse 
which is somewhat close to your calcs.

One thing that bothers me a little is the increase in saturation voltage of 
the assumed P-Channel FET at the relative low current of ~ 2A so they must 
be using a small die area device. This could certainly be improved upon.

Jon F


-----Original Message-----
From: jonfli

Just curious as to the calibration/div for the current probe used on
Ch2 to arrive at your energy calc above?

<><><><><><><><>

See the post to George on the probe specs.  Does that answer your
question?

Terry


From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Feb 27 14:00:49 2006
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-----Original Message-----
From: George Holz

George: I cannot tell from the picture the range to which the
current probe is set. If it is the 10 Amp range , then the 100 mv/amp
signal would give an energy per pulse from the scope waveforms
essentially equal to your calculation of 1.1 Joules per pulse.
This is an appropriate measurement technique and the probe
bandwidth should be sufficient for accurate measurement.
Please verify the range setting on the probe.

Terry:  I'll check to see if I have some better images.  I'm sure it 
set correctly since they were willing to show me anything.  I was 
simply so excited that I did not do good due diligence.  I am trying to 
assemble two good men who are willing to evaluate the mechanical and 
electrical aspects of the device and provide testimony.  One forensic 
electrical engineer has already pretty much agreed.  The second 
mechanical engineer is considering the offer.  I am a EE but am too 
much of a believer to be objective.

George: Scaling a device whose OU mechanism is not well understood
is extremely difficult. From experience, it is difficult even when
the mechanism is fairly well understood.



George: In central New Jersey, my office is on US Hwy 22 East in Bound 
Brook.

Terry:  Let me know if you get near Atlanta any time soon.  As they say 
"Whether you go to heaven or hell, you must change planes in Atlanta."

Terry
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Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 14:15:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Jones Beene 
Subject: Re: The Allure of "Selective" torque
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--- Grimer wrote:

> I'm not quite sure what you're torquing about, 
Jones, but I found the swing bit so interesting that I
 actually googled to find exactly how it worked.  

Sounds like "allure" to me, Frank ... as in "a lure"
of the "fishy" variety ... and since I've no clue to
what angle you ... (the angler)... are casting, let me
add that there is an interesting bit of simple and
related info online about resonance, pendulums and
swings.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/sound/reson.html#resdef


... which offers up another possibility (resonance)
for tossing into the mix for a hybrid "self-runner"
... a hybrid of a pendulum with a pure pulsed rotor -
using the ramp-and-release EM mechanics of
Sprain/Takahishi. 

Both pendulums and flywheels are efficient in terms of
storing energy, of course, but only the pendulum has
the strong gravity-connection. Horace Heffner has
posted some thoughts on a unification of gravity and
magnetism, suggesting that perhaps some effort can be
given to finding even the slightest asymmetry there.

It is very difficult to design an electric motor over
98% efficient. The CISIRO motors used in the Solar Car
races are about 98.5% efficient at their best speed -
but any old pendulum can get a full percent higher at
resonance, and once you know what the resonant period
is - then you can design a mechanical crank of exact
dimension to mate this period to a rotary device. I
suspect that IF there is even a half a percent of
asymmetry in any kind of gravi-magnetic phenomenon -
that would be enough for self-power of a hybrid of
this type. That is about as close to 'perpetual
motion' as one can hope for in a manufactured device.
Actually one does not even have to convert the
pendulum motion into rotary in order to apply the
ramp-and-release mechanism - as you can do that direct
to the bob.

No - that kind of show-boating will not solve the
energy crisis directly - but as many observers besides
me have been shouting for some time - Give us one
rock-solid OU device and you will see the floodgates
of high-level funding open up !

It is somewhat of a psychological dilemma now because
of these Laws being nearly sacrosanct -  and that is
all the physics that most politicians know, especially
those from the oil-patch ... As of now, there is
nothing beyond innuendo and anecdote about possible
violations of the laws of thermodynamics which many of
us have witnessed first hand - yet once any such Law
is violated by a robust self-powered 'perpetual
motion' kind of gimmick - even if it is a toy - then
voila - IT'S A WHOLE NEW BALLGAME - at least in terms
of inventors obtaining adequate funding for some of
these neglected and scorned technologies, which we
toss around daily here. Even LENR would benefit - even
though it is totally unrelated (and stands on firmer
theoretical ground).

Now... that is one heck of a lure.... with what some
will call an equally big fish story...

Jones

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-----Original Message-----
From: Grimer

I admire his "sefl"confidence.  ;-)

<><><><><><>

:-Þ
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Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 18:24:07 -0500
From: George Holz 
Subject: Article on carbon nanotube based ultracapacitor
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http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2006/batteries-0208.html?tr=y&auid=1441616

This is from a newsletter I get from the MIT Alumni Association.
A suprise for me is that one of the inventors graduated 2 years
after me fron the same small high school and from the same
department at MIT. 

George Holz
Varitronics Systems


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From: Horace Heffner 
Subject: Re: Update on Energy Costs
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 14:23:54 -0900
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On Feb 27, 2006, at 12:38 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:

> Horace Heffner wrote:
>
>> Page 2 shows the cost of a 1.65-MW turbine is $0.79/W, but actual  
>> power can come in at about 1/3 the nameplate rating, which gives  
>> about $2.40/W.
>
> That adjustment is reasonable, but it complicates things. By the  
> same token, you might adjust nuclear power, because nuclear power  
> plants are used roughly 90% of the time. I believe the Davis-Besse  
> plant been off-line for years, waiting for repairs. You should  
> multiply that one by infinity I guess.
>
> Other generators are online about half or a third of the the time,  
> because the demand for power goes down at night. They could be run  
> more but there is no need for them so it is not fair to adjust the  
> nameplate value. Then again, they could not be run 100% of the  
> time, because they do require maintenance. Probably ~90% is the  
> limit. Some generator type such as diesel are only run  
> occasionally, when peak power is needed, because the fuel is much  
> more expensive per kWh.
>
> I would say it is reasonable to adjust the cost of a nuclear plant  
> because they are baseline plants which are left running as many  
> hours per year as possible, whereas it makes no sense to adjust the  
> cost of a diesel or gas turbine plant.
>
> If you really want to complicate things, try taking into account  
> "environmental, safety and health (ES&H) characteristics." In other  
> words, how much does a coal fired plant cost when you include, let  
> us say, $1 million for every person it kills with pollution, and  
> $100,000 for every 10 years of life spent in disabled bad health.  
> That would make the cost of coal go through the roof. Or, for  
> example, consider what happens to the price of oil when you factor  
> in the cost of the Iraqi war. (A small amount of oil is used to  
> generate electricity.)

Yes, or the cost of acid rain.

>
> You might add in the cost of mining accidents and $1 million per  
> miner killed in accidents. You might try to account for people  
> killed or disabled in conventional thermal power plants. Wind power  
> has the best safety record of any large-scale generation source,  
> because it happens to be the most modern, and because there are not  
> many ways to kill yourself with a wind turbine. Just about the only  
> casualties are during construction. Modern combustion plants are  
> quite safe, but accidents occur at the older plants and in third  
> world plants. (There are no third-world wind turbines, except in  
> India.)

Thanks for the comments.

>
> Of course it is impossible to get an accurate estimate of such  
> things, but this discussion does indicate that the obvious, easily  
> measured costs -- such as the cost of the equipment -- may not be a  
> useful guide to the actual society-wide dollar cost of energy.

The numbers given appear useful to the extent that, if correct, they  
are sufficient to show where the public's capital should go.


>
> This is an interesting and complicated subject.

Yes, and a subject utterly confused by the influence of political  
doctrine, institutionalized greed, and the individual bias and  
emotional content associated with any potential disruptions to the  
status quo and our national addiction.  It seems to me a few numbers  
go a long way to bringing clarity to the situation - at least for  
just being a few numbers.

Horace Heffner

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I'll be going back soon with a better ELECTRICAL Engr.  While my degree 
is in EE, I have been in photonics so long I don't trust my 
oscilloscope capabilities any more -- especially these new-fangled, 
digital storage, self normalizing, display maximizing types.  Now give 
me an Optical Time Domain Reflectometer and I'll find your Course 
Wavelength Division Multiplexing problems at the speed of light in 
glass. 

Regards,

Terry

-----Original Message-----
From: jonfli 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 13:41:10 -0800
Subject: Re: Sprain Mag Motor

Terry, 
 
Yes, thank you. However, the CH2 Mean measurement of 71.3mv isn't 
accurate because it appears to be > 200mv! I assume the probe was set 
at 0-10A with an output of 10mv/Amp, this makes the input current 
measurement on CH2 to be > 2A Mean. 
 
The CH1 voltage measurement seems to indicate the coil is driven from a 
positive supply thru a P-Channel FET or equiv and the power supply 
voltage is ~20Vdc judging from the CH1 vertical cal at 4.52v/div!? 
 
The pulse width measurements are different between CH1 and CH2 so, 
taking the longer CH1 duration of 27.5ms, these measurements yield > 
1.1J/pulse which is somewhat close to your calcs. 
 
One thing that bothers me a little is the increase in saturation 
voltage of the assumed P-Channel FET at the relative low current of ~ 
2A so they must be using a small die area device. This could certainly 
be improved upon. 
 
Jon F 
 
-----Original Message----- 
From: jonfli 
 
Just curious as to the calibration/div for the current probe used on 
Ch2 to arrive at your energy calc above? 
 
<><><><><><><><> 
 
See the post to George on the probe specs. Does that answer your 
question? 
 
Terry 
 


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When you place it underload it stops spinning. Your moving from a strong
field to a weak field you have no momentum to bring you top dead center 
of
the EM. It stops as soon as you add a load.


Paul

<><><><><><><>


I even tried reversing the EM trying to attract the rotor, it still 
won't
work.

Paul

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Subject: Re: Update on Energy Costs
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Actually, this gets even more complicated. You have to factor in what 
I suppose should be called "timeliness" or "usefulness" or simply the 
value per kilowatt hour. As noted, gas turbines are used for peak 
power when it is most needed. Wind turbines produce energy when the 
wind blows, which may or may not be the time when you most want 
electricity. Often it happens in the middle of the night. Some 
analysts have discounted the value of wind generate electricity for 
this reason. This is quite reasonable; if you already have enough 
baseline nuclear power, additional wind power in the middle of the 
night will either have to be stored -- which adds to the cost -- or 
thrown away.

However, as it happens, rooftop or large-scale solar installations in 
the Southwest U.S. usually produce electricity just when it is most 
needed: when the sun shines brightly and millions of air conditioners 
turn on. So solar in some geographic locations is more useful than 
wind, and likely to produce more valuable energy. In other words, 
solar produces electricity that is worth more to power company per 
kilowatt hour, and that will likely never need storage or extensive 
load-balancing. So even if a large-scale solar installation costs 
more per kilowatt of capacity than a wind farm, it is probably worth 
more, too, and it should be selected anyway.

All this complexity will disappear if cold fusion can be perfected. 
In fact, libraries full of books about complex and vital energy 
engineering techniques will soon be worth nothing, and the knowledge 
will forgotten, except by a handful of experts who deal with arcane 
obsolete & ancient technology. In the Smithsonian History and 
Technology Museum, it is said that nearly every machine on exhibit 
has been repaired and refitted and is probably in working condition. 
There are hundreds of experts in the museum who can fix just about 
anything, from Tycho Brahe's astrolabe to an early 19th-century steam 
locomotive. Decades from now there will be people at the Smithsonian 
who understand what load-balancing is and why solar energy was more 
valuable in the Southwest U.S. than it was in Denmark (where the wind 
happens to blow when people most need electricity). Everyone else in 
society will have forgotten all about the sort of thing -- and it 
cannot happen too soon for me.

- Jed


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-----Original Message-----
From: Horace Heffner

Yes, or the cost of acid rain. 

<><><><><><><>

Coal fired plants are a significant source of ionizing radiation, also.

Terry
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BlankOur local state owned electric power plant, Fayette Power operated =
by the Lower Colorado River Authority of Texas uses mostly Wyoming Coal =
railed down via some 2500 hopper cars owned or leased  by LCRA. Normal =
load per train is 100-115 hopper cars with two trains per day. A third =
of the hopper cars are normally out of service for maintenance.

The railroads are no longer able to keep up the pace of coal shipments =
so LCRA is importing coal from Mexico via the port of Corpus Christi and =
trucking to the plantsite approx 250 miles.

The three stack plant has two electrostatic preciptators and one blow to =
the wind giving them the reputation of one of the dirtiest plants in the =
US. Not to worry, although my ranch is in the path of the plume, I keep =
remembering they promised to install a EP on the old stack as soon as =
they have the money. Meanwhile the state ands the US gov't will kick and =
stomp any private citizen that dares to dirty our air or water.

They do have the lowest rates around 8 cents. well .. err plus another 2 =
1/2 cents for adders like trying to balance the energy costs.

Richard


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Our local state owned electric power plant, Fayette Power operated =
by the=20
Lower Colorado River Authority of Texas uses mostly Wyoming Coal railed =
down via=20
some 2500 hopper cars owned or leased  by LCRA. Normal load per =
train is=20
100-115 hopper cars with two trains per day. A third of the hopper =
cars are=20
normally out of service for maintenance.


 


The railroads are no longer able to keep up the pace of coal =
shipments so=20
LCRA is importing coal from Mexico via the port of Corpus Christi and =
trucking=20
to the plantsite approx 250 miles.


 


The three stack plant has two electrostatic preciptators and one =
blow to=20
the wind giving them the reputation of one of the dirtiest plants in the =
US. Not=20
to worry, although my ranch is in the path of the plume, I keep =
remembering they=20
promised to install a EP on the old stack as soon as they have the =
money.=20
Meanwhile the state ands the US gov't will kick and stomp any private =
citizen=20
that dares to dirty our air or water.


 


They do have the lowest rates around 8 cents. well .. err plus =
another 2=20
1/2 cents for adders like trying to balance the energy costs.


 


Richard


 


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From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Feb 27 18:34:47 2006
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From: Horace Heffner 
Subject: Re: Update on Energy Costs
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 17:34:18 -0900
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
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On Feb 27, 2006, at 4:42 PM, hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote:

> Coal fired plants are a significant source of ionizing radiation,  
> also.

Yes indeed.  An old post on this (edited for spelling) follows.   
However, it is notable that the new emissions free technologies for  
sequestering CO2 may solve this problem.

	Resent-From: 	  vortex-l@eskimo.com
	From: 	  hheffner@mtaonline.net
	Subject: 	Coal combustion no option
	Date: 	December 8, 2004 3:19:32 PM AKST
	To: 	  vortex-l@eskimo.com
	Reply-To: 	  vortex-l@eskimo.com

Some old yet still relevant and stunning information follows that I
obtained from Tom Gray and others regarding coal combustion:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -  
- - - - -
Not only is ~10^10 tons/yr carbon becoming resident in the atmosphere  
due
to coal combustion, but coal combustion alone adds 22,000 curies/yr of
radioactivity to the biosphere. That's ~8x10^14 nuclear  
disintegrations/sec
of new rads. How does this relate to a typical coal fired utility of  
1000
MWe? The Radon-222 component alone adds about 2 Ci per 1000 MWe/yr,  
about
2250 Ci worldwide (~9x10^13 dis/sec), that is entirely exhausted up the
stack. Its half-life of 3.8 days means that Rn-222 that goes up  
returns as
fallout in the form of decay chain species of alpha and beta emitters
including Pb-210, Bi-210 and Po-210 (Pb-210 half-life is 21 yrs).  
These rads
are in the category of Class 1, Very High Radio-toxicity substances.  
As an
example, Po-210 is about 10^5 times more radio-toxic than Pu-239 -  
the stuff
whose mention strikes intense anguish in the hearts of mankind. In  
terms of
relative radio-toxicities, coal exhausts are equivalent to quite a  
lot of
new biospheric additions of Pu-239, but entirely acceptable to the  
public
because coal is OK.  Policy makers have our best interests in hand with
worldwide coal combustion projected to be more than double the 1990  
level
by the year 2015.

See 

Whatever numbers are used in calculating rad components in coal, the
results are big because so much coal is burned. The primary source of  
the
uranium and thorium in coal is due to earth's hydrology, filtering  
ground
water that has seeped through igneous deposits over geological time  
frames.

What's instructive about the trend of increasing coal combustion is that
regulations are tight for nuclear plants to prevent rad releases, but  
coal goes
unfettered. The literature (Science, McBride et al 12/8/78) says the  
ratio
of rad releases from nuc/coal is about 100/1, and about 4/1 for the  
entire
nuclear fuel cycle (NCRP Reports 92 & 93).

More energy resides in the nuclear component in coal than in the coal
itself due to the nuc/chem energy ratio of 5M/1. Other minerals of worth
constitute about $200M/yr nonrecovered in the US alone, millions of tons
each year of non-utilized aluminum, iron, magnesium, titanium, etc  
from about
73 elements.

Given stated worldwide commitments to ecologically sustainable  
technologies
for the future (fusion is certainly a leading candidate), ponder the
releases from coal, along with declines in fusion and basic research,  
and
wonder if more hot air than commitment is present. There's the Resource
Conservation and Recovery Act saying not to waste resources, yet more  
Al is
exhausted in coal ash than the aluminum industry produces. The Energy
Conservation Act: more energy resides in the nuclear component of  
coal than
its chemical component and all of it is wasted. Clean Water Act and  
Clean
Air Act, each well intended and showing positive results in the US, but
what will happen worldwide as coal combustion grows to meet  
objectives, for
instance China's plan to increase coal combustion 8x by 2015? National
priorities resident in similar laws, such as environmental protection  
and
restoration regulations, that are increasingly under attack as  
encumbrances to
industry and profits. If the world really wants ecologically sustainable
technologies, coal is an enormously valuable resource with vast untapped
potential,  more than $1 trillion/year world wide in mineral and energy
wealth.

Then there's the proliferation issue. For example, what's to become of
millions of tons of uranium and thorium freely exhausted with coal
combustion over the years? In a single year's worth of coal production
today is 68,000 kg of U-235, and via the net Greenpeace has told the  
world
how to make it into bombs. How much energy?  The 68,000 kg of U-235  
equates
to 377 Mtons of coal.  At $17/ton at the mine, that's $6 trillion  
alone in
coal value.

Clearly, resource money should be available to support research and  
create
jobs (at home even) to work on these problems.  There are economic,
security, and even political benefits to be had by going after the  
energy
problem vigorously.  A watered down pablum is no answer to feed the  
masses.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Regards,

Horace Heffner



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Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 23:18:14 -0500
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On Monday 27 February 2006 21:34, Horace Heffner wrote:
> On Feb 27, 2006, at 4:42 PM, hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote:
> > Coal fired plants are a significant source of ionizing radiation,
> > also.
>
> Yes indeed.  An old post on this (edited for spelling) follows.
> However, it is notable that the new emissions free technologies for
> sequestering CO2 may solve this problem.
>
> 	Resent-From: 	  vortex-l@eskimo.com
> 	From: 	  hheffner@mtaonline.net
> 	Subject: 	Coal combustion no option
> 	Date: 	December 8, 2004 3:19:32 PM AKST
> 	To: 	  vortex-l@eskimo.com
> 	Reply-To: 	  vortex-l@eskimo.com
>
> Some old yet still relevant and stunning information follows that I
> obtained from Tom Gray and others regarding coal combustion:
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> - - - - -
> Not only is ~10^10 tons/yr carbon becoming resident in the atmosphere
> due
> to coal combustion, but coal combustion alone adds 22,000 curies/yr of
> radioactivity to the biosphere. That's ~8x10^14 nuclear
> disintegrations/sec
> of new rads. How does this relate to a typical coal fired utility of
> 1000
> MWe? The Radon-222 component alone adds about 2 Ci per 1000 MWe/yr,
> about
> 2250 Ci worldwide (~9x10^13 dis/sec), that is entirely exhausted up the
> stack. Its half-life of 3.8 days means that Rn-222 that goes up
> returns as
> fallout in the form of decay chain species of alpha and beta emitters
> including Pb-210, Bi-210 and Po-210 (Pb-210 half-life is 21 yrs).
> These rads
> are in the category of Class 1, Very High Radio-toxicity substances.
> As an
> example, Po-210 is about 10^5 times more radio-toxic than Pu-239 -
> the stuff
> whose mention strikes intense anguish in the hearts of mankind. In
> terms of
> relative radio-toxicities, coal exhausts are equivalent to quite a
> lot of
> new biospheric additions of Pu-239, but entirely acceptable to the
> public
> because coal is OK.  Policy makers have our best interests in hand with
> worldwide coal combustion projected to be more than double the 1990
> level
> by the year 2015.
>
> See 
>
> Whatever numbers are used in calculating rad components in coal, the
> results are big because so much coal is burned. The primary source of
> the
> uranium and thorium in coal is due to earth's hydrology, filtering
> ground
> water that has seeped through igneous deposits over geological time
> frames.
>
> What's instructive about the trend of increasing coal combustion is that
> regulations are tight for nuclear plants to prevent rad releases, but
> coal goes
> unfettered. The literature (Science, McBride et al 12/8/78) says the
> ratio
> of rad releases from nuc/coal is about 100/1, and about 4/1 for the
> entire
> nuclear fuel cycle (NCRP Reports 92 & 93).
>
> More energy resides in the nuclear component in coal than in the coal
> itself due to the nuc/chem energy ratio of 5M/1. Other minerals of worth
> constitute about $200M/yr nonrecovered in the US alone, millions of tons
> each year of non-utilized aluminum, iron, magnesium, titanium, etc
> from about
> 73 elements.
>
> Given stated worldwide commitments to ecologically sustainable
> technologies
> for the future (fusion is certainly a leading candidate), ponder the
> releases from coal, along with declines in fusion and basic research,
> and
> wonder if more hot air than commitment is present. There's the Resource
> Conservation and Recovery Act saying not to waste resources, yet more
> Al is
> exhausted in coal ash than the aluminum industry produces. The Energy
> Conservation Act: more energy resides in the nuclear component of
> coal than
> its chemical component and all of it is wasted. Clean Water Act and
> Clean
> Air Act, each well intended and showing positive results in the US, but
> what will happen worldwide as coal combustion grows to meet
> objectives, for
> instance China's plan to increase coal combustion 8x by 2015? National
> priorities resident in similar laws, such as environmental protection
> and
> restoration regulations, that are increasingly under attack as
> encumbrances to
> industry and profits. If the world really wants ecologically sustainable
> technologies, coal is an enormously valuable resource with vast untapped
> potential,  more than $1 trillion/year world wide in mineral and energy
> wealth.
>
> Then there's the proliferation issue. For example, what's to become of
> millions of tons of uranium and thorium freely exhausted with coal
> combustion over the years? In a single year's worth of coal production
> today is 68,000 kg of U-235, and via the net Greenpeace has told the
> world
> how to make it into bombs. How much energy?  The 68,000 kg of U-235
> equates
> to 377 Mtons of coal.  At $17/ton at the mine, that's $6 trillion
> alone in
> coal value.
>
> Clearly, resource money should be available to support research and
> create
> jobs (at home even) to work on these problems.  There are economic,
> security, and even political benefits to be had by going after the
> energy
> problem vigorously.  A watered down pablum is no answer to feed the
> masses.
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
> Regards,
>
> Horace Heffner
]

Had an old engineering prof who said it short:  "Coal is a garbagecan!"
He was referring to all the above radioactives and other substances in coal 
that one might not want in the atmosphere.  
  The Chinese are proposing to go to the moon to mine helium-3 for fusion
fuel.  They get there before us, our children may end up having to learn 
Chinese.  Certainly our grandchildren.  Survival of the fittest.  If we 
cannot manage ourselves, others will find a use for us.  
            Our so called 'recovering space cadet' Jeffrey Bell would have us 
go there in a tin can, and leave just as quickly.  For that is all you can do 
if your vehicle is no more substantial than a tin can the size of the old 
Appollo.  I wonder if that gentleman ever saw that old capsule that almost 
got us marooned just like the Japanese movie: "Marooned".  I had the glory of 
working on it's electronic subsystems back in the sixties.  Old stuff!  
Discrete components and minumum integration except for 16 pin DIP simple IC's 
containing four gates.  That's right, f-o-u-r gates!  You had your choice of 
AND or NAND!
             A better case for a crash program to build a power grid based on 
the fast breeder cycle cannot be found given the certainty of wasted nuclear 
fuel when coal is mass consumed as above.  Eventually the fusion process
using helium-3 will come on line to replace and add to the fission power grid 
as we gain in our space program or build a space elevator.  The breeder cycle 
is in our technical grasp now, however, and we would be foolish and/or 
treasonous to our species and our nation if we did not use it.  Whether this 
cycle is used or not is not up to us anyway.  The Chinese are actively 
building it.  The Japanese are as well.  Yet here we are deluding ourselves 
with visions of moral grandeur that exist only in the fools paradise that we 
call our 'nonproliferation agreements' or 'protections against terrorism.    
Every incremental rise in the price of fossil energy increases the pressure 
around the world to build this.  The asian powers actually admitting efforts 
in this direction are only the tip of the iceberg.
   And by the way, we are not going to stop either Iran nor Korea in 
developing nuclear energy.  We are stretched to the limit in Iraq!  Notice
our fearless leader is'nt swaying India either.  We have to look to our own 
energy house first.  In the nineteenth century, a nation's strength was often 
'measured' by how much electric power they could produce, as without this 
power to assist the labor force, a nation's productivity would be little 
better that which could be attained by aboriginals.  Do we want to become
twenty first century aboriginals.  Like I said above, we all know what fate
has historically had in store for aboriginals.
Standing Bear

From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Feb 27 20:10:22 2006
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From: Horace Heffner 
Subject: Re: Sprain on Takahashi/Kawai
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 19:10:03 -0900
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
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For "cogging" EM motors, it seems to me to make sense to increase the  
decelerating "cogging" angle to as much as possible, then put  
multiple motors sharing their armatures in tandem but out of phase.   
For example, if the cogging angle were 36 degrees, then 10 motors  
should cover the full 360 degree circle.  If the cogging angle could  
be made 120 degrees, for example, then 3 motors in tandem should make  
for a perpetual motion machine, assuming such is possible.

Horace Heffner

From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Mon Feb 27 21:35:15 2006
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Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 05:34:53 +0000
To: vortex-L@eskimo.com
From: Grimer 
Subject: Re: Sprain Mag Motor
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Hi Terry,

Let's examine the workings of the Sprain Mag Motor 
in Carnot cycle terms.

With reference to the diagram at:

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/carnot.html

the conventional Carnot cycle takes the following clockwise path.

Isothermal expansion 
Adiabatic expansion 
Isothermal compression 
Adiabatic compression

To get the refrigeration or heat pump cycle 
we have circle around widdershins, i.e.

Adiabatic compression 
Isothermal compression 
Adiabatic expansion 
Isothermal expansion

Now the adiabatic and isothermal sections of the path are often
looked at in terms of the introduction and the removal of an 
insulator for heat. With the insulator present we have adiabatic
conditions. With the insulator absent we have isothermal conditions.

But we can view the insulator as merely a means of slowing the 
systems internal "biological" clock.

Insulator present, the internal clock runs slow.
Insulator absent, the internal clock runs fast.

But we can do away with the insulator and achieve the same effect 
by manipulating the system's external clock.

Now the Carnot cycle becomes,

Slow expansion      -  Heat has long time to enter system.
Fast expansion      -  Heat has little time to enter system.
Slow compression    -  Heat has long time to exit system. 
Fast compression    -  Heat has little time to exit system.

Assuming that the Sprain Mag Motor works, it seems to me 
that it has the essentail elements needed to take the working 
fluid (internal Beta-atmosphere) around a hysteresis cycle.

We have the slow build up as the arm circles through nearly
360 degrees - and we have the rapid reversal provided by the
electronic bag of tricks.

I now understand why the thing is so damned big compared to 
the Kawai/Takahashi motor - and why the rotor arm turns nice
and slow - a great help for a doubting Thomas like me for whom
seeing is believing.  8-) 

The slower that the build up can take place, the better. 
One needs a very large arm (or arms) and a gearing system to 
drive a generator. 

I visualize a vertical arrangement which looks like one of 
those enormous 19th Century overshot watermill wheels that 
were used to provide all the energy needs for manufacturing.

The Old Bale Mill overshot wheel at Calistoga, California is
a good example. See:-

http://www.spoom.org/locator/States-HTML/CA/CA-Mill-HTML/CA-028-001BalesMill.htm

http://tinyurl.com/mxksq

Cheers,

Frank Grimer


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Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 05:54:00 +0000
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
From: Grimer 
Subject: Re: Sprain Mag Motor
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I notice that there is an interesting article 
in Wiki on Harry Paul Sprain's magnetic motor.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Paul_Harry_Sprain_magnet_motor

Frank 


From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Feb 28 04:53:51 2006
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From: "Nick Palmer" 
To: 
References: <2.2.32.20060224163015.009e5a70@pop.freeserve.net> <8C80799BD83DBFD-11D4-2E070@mblkn-m17.sysops.aol.com> <8C808903DE2627E-C70-95F4@mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> <001c01c63ad0$4ea48050$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <8C80904C1626597-208C-100D8@mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com>
Subject: Re: Sprain Mag Motor
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 12:53:16 -0000
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Wouldn't it be relatively trivial to close the loop on this one - instead of 
having his $10k torque measurer, why not stick a (cheaper) generator on the 
shaft feeding a capacitor smoothed power supply for the electromagnet? Far 
more convincing than possibly dodgy oscilloscope measurements of power in vs 
power out...

Nick Palmer 


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  http://www.newtonphysics.on.ca/magnetic/mass.html    


  "Consequently, we must realize that the physical concept of “charge” must be reconsidered.  It must not be confused with the remote electric field, which is always the same around any electric charge. We usually claim that the electric charge of the proton is equal to the electric charge of the electron, just because the field distribution is identical at r>re. We have seen that when more electromagnetic field energy is integrated inside the proton, within the classical electron radius re, there is no change of remote electric field around the particle.  Furthermore, we must understand that the electric field around a charge particle is not due to the “action-at-a-distance” around an electric charge located at one point.  An “action-at-a-distance“ implies an interaction between two physical elements located at different locations.  That is non-sense. Logically, the interaction between two elements can take place only, if they are located at the same place, at the same time.  The electric field, which is located around a charged particle, possesses its own existence at the location where it is measured.  It is not some magic “action-at-a-distance”.   An interaction between “particles” can take place only when the field of an interacting particle has reached the inside of the interacted particle.  It is always a field-to-field interaction at any distance.  Such a mechanism solves the “action-at-a-distance" paradox. 
        In order to reach a deeper understanding, the electric charge distribution forming the electron must be compared with another particle.  A similar electric field distribution takes place in the proton and the anti-proton, which also possess an electric charge.  Even for the proton, the (positive) electric field cannot exist down to zero radius, because this would also require an infinite amount of energy.  However, at a larger distance from its center, up to infinity, the proton electric field possesses exactly the same amplitude as the positron and the electron. 
  Since the proton mass is much larger than the electron mass, it takes the integration of a much larger amount of electric field to form the proton mass.  However, we know experimentally, that in the outer region of these two particles, the density of the electrical field is exactly identical.  Therefore the proton possesses an extra electric field, entirely located just inside the classical electron radius, which gives it the extra mass.  That extra inner charge does not produce any effect on the peripheral part of the particle.  At distances larger than the classical electron radius, the “amplitude” of the electric field surrounding the proton is exactly the same as for the electron.  This is in agreement with the observations that the (absolute) electric charge is the same for both particles."

Thus gravity cannot be a property of charge.

OTOH, the magnetic field increases with mass, but it's intensity decreases
as 1/r^4 wheras gravity acts as 1/r^2 between masses, hence gravity cannot be
a function of magnetism either.

However, Mass/Energy is an Intrinsic Function of Charge and Magnetism.

IOW, synthesizing a 1.0 kilogram "Antigravity Particle" that can experience 9.8 Newtons
of antigravity force (become weightless) at the earth's surface will only require 
c^2 (9.0^16) joules or about 100 milliquads of energy. 

Multiply requirement by 10 for synthesis and containment energy.

One quad = 10^18 joule or ~ 10^15 BTU = the daily global 
energy production-use
   
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8
Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII






 


 


  "Consequently, we must realize that the physical concept of “charge” must be reconsidered.  It must not be confused with the remote electric field, which is always the same around any electric charge. We usually claim that the electric charge of the proton is equal to the electric charge of the electron, just because the field distribution is identical at r>re. We have seen that when more electromagnetic field energy is integrated inside the proton, within the classical electron radius re, there is no change of remote electric field around the particle.  Furthermore, we must understand that the electric field around a charge particle is not due to the “action-at-a-distance” around an electric charge located at one point.  An “action-at-a-distance“ implies an interaction between two physical elements located at different locations.  That is non-sense. Logically, the interaction between two elements can take place only, if they are located at the same place, at the same time.  The electric field, which is located around a charged particle, possesses its own existence at the location where it is measured.  It is not some magic “action-at-a-distance”.   An interaction between “particles” can take place only when the field of an interacting particle has reached the inside of the interacted particle.  It is always a field-to-field interaction at any distance.  Such a mechanism solves the “action-at-a-distance" paradox. 


        In order to reach a deeper understanding, the electric charge distribution forming the electron must be compared with another particle.  A similar electric field distribution takes place in the proton and the anti-proton, which also possess an electric charge.  Even for the proton, the (positive) electric field cannot exist down to zero radius, because this would also require an infinite amount of energy.  However, at a larger distance from its center, up to infinity, the proton electric field possesses exactly the same amplitude as the positron and the electron. 


  Since the proton mass is much larger than the electron mass, it takes the integration of a much larger amount of electric field to form the proton mass.  However, we know experimentally, that in the outer region of these two particles, the density of the electrical field is exactly identical.  Therefore the proton possesses an extra electric field, entirely located just inside the classical electron radius, which gives it the extra mass.  That extra inner charge does not produce any effect on the peripheral part of the particle.  At distances larger than the classical electron radius, the “amplitude” of the electric field surrounding the proton is exactly the same as for the electron.  This is in agreement with the observations that the (absolute) electric charge is the same for both particles."


 




Thus gravity cannot be a property of charge.


 


OTOH, the magnetic field increases with mass, but it's intensity decreases


as 1/r^4 wheras gravity acts as 1/r^2 between masses, hence gravity cannot be


a function of magnetism either.


 


However, Mass/Energy is an Intrinsic Function of Charge and Magnetism.


 


IOW, synthesizing a 1.0 kilogram "Antigravity Particle" that can experience 9.8 Newtons


of antigravity force (become weightless) at the earth's surface will only require 


c^2 (9.0^16) joules or about 100 milliquads of energy. 


 


Multiply requirement by 10 for synthesis and containment energy.


 


One quad = 10^18 joule or ~ 10^15 BTU = the daily global 


energy production-use


   


 


 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8--


From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Feb 28 07:09:47 2006
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For a really cheap minus x.0 kg "Antigravity Particle" it looks like "bottling"
a few liters of "Beta Ether" will satisfy the equation:

-Fg = 6.67e-11 * Me * - Mbe

Where Me = mass of the earth = 5.98e24 kg and  - Mbe = the negative mass of Beta Ether contained
in the "Genie" bottle.

This squares with Einstein's "Matter Warps Space" Tenet. 

Warps = Repels, No?

Never Build It, if you can buy it cheaper.

Fred

http://www.newtonphysics.on.ca/magnetic/mass.html

 "To be realistic, ether, if it exists, must possess mass."

   " We can read that in many papers, such a rest frame is attributed to a hypothetical “ether”.  However, there is a difference between an absolute frame of reference, which possesses only geometrical properties and a physical “ether”.  A “ether” must be understood as a “medium” which can have a physical interaction with other physical quantities, as mass and energy.  Ether is usually assumed to be a support for the transmission of light waves, in analogy with the transmission of sound, which is supported by air (or by solids and liquids).  However, acoustic theory shows that no sound can be transmitted through a medium, if that medium does not possesses mass.  Therefore some energy and some physical properties (other than geometrical properties) must exist in such a hypothesized ether, which can interact with the assumed waves moving through that ether.  To be realistic, ether, if it exists, must possess mass.  Therefore, there is a fundamental difference, between an “absolute frame of reference”, which is just a geometrical property, and which corresponds to the average motion of matter in space, and a “physical medium”, possessing physical properties like mass and energy, which supports waves.  It has been shown previously (15) that an absolute frame of reference (not the ether) is required in order to satisfy the principle of mass-energy conservation.  We read: "
“ For the moment, the sole property of that assumed ether is to establish an absolute origin to the velocity-frame of light and physical matter, because this frame of reference is absolutely needed to comply with the principle of energy and momentum conservation.”


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Frederick Sparber 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: 2/28/2006 6:17:26 AM 
Subject: Re: Gravity, A Function of Mass/Energy-Charge/Magnetism


  http://www.newtonphysics.on.ca/magnetic/mass.html    


  "Consequently, we must realize that the physical concept of “charge” must be reconsidered.  It must not be confused with the remote electric field, which is always the same around any electric charge. We usually claim that the electric charge of the proton is equal to the electric charge of the electron, just because the field distribution is identical at r>re. We have seen that when more electromagnetic field energy is integrated inside the proton, within the classical electron radius re, there is no change of remote electric field around the particle.  Furthermore, we must understand that the electric field around a charge particle is not due to the “action-at-a-distance” around an electric charge located at one point.  An “action-at-a-distance“ implies an interaction between two physical elements located at different locations.  That is non-sense. Logically, the interaction between two elements can take place only, ! if they are located at the same place, at the same time.  The electric field, which is located around a charged particle, possesses its own existence at the location where it is measured.  It is not some magic “action-at-a-distance”.   An interaction between “particles” can take place only when the field of an interacting particle has reached the inside of the interacted particle.  It is always a field-to-field interaction at any distance.  Such a mechanism solves the “action-at-a-distance" paradox. 
        In order to reach a deeper understanding, the electric charge distribution forming the electron must be compared with another particle.  A similar electric field distribution takes place in the proton and the anti-proton, which also possess an electric charge.  Even for the proton, the (positive) electric field cannot exist down to zero radius, because this would also require an infinite amount of energy.  However, at a larger distance from its center, up to infinity, the proton electric field possesses exactly the same amplitude as the positron and the electron. 
  Since the proton mass is much larger than the electron mass, it takes the integration of a much larger amount of electric field to form the proton mass.  However, we know experimentally, that in the outer region of these two particles, the density of the electrical field is exactly identical.  Therefore the proton possesses an extra electric field, entirely located just inside the classical electron radius, which gives it the extra mass.  That extra inner charge does not produce any effect on the peripheral part of the particle.  At distances larger than the classical electron radius, the “amplitude” of the electric field surrounding the proton is exactly the same as for the electron.  This is in agreement with the observations that the (absolute) electric charge is the same for both particles."

Thus gravity cannot be a property of charge.

OTOH, the magnetic field increases with mass, but it's intensity decreases
as 1/r^4 wheras gravity acts as 1/r^2 between masses, hence gravity cannot be
a function of magnetism either.

However, Mass/Energy is an Intrinsic Function of Charge and Magnetism.

IOW, synthesizing a 1.0 kilogram "Antigravity Particle" that can experience 9.8 Newtons
of antigravity force (become weightless) at the earth's surface will only require 
c^2 (9.0^16) joules or about 100 milliquads of energy. 

Multiply requirement by 10 for synthesis and containment energy.

One quad = 10^18 joule or ~ 10^15 BTU = the daily global 
energy production-use
   
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8
Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII







For a really cheap minus x.0 kg "Antigravity Particle" it looks like "bottling"


a few liters of "Beta Ether" will satisfy the equation:


 


-Fg = 6.67e-11 * Me * - Mbe


 


Where Me = mass of the earth = 5.98e24 kg and  - Mbe = the negative mass of Beta Ether contained


in the "Genie" bottle.


 


This squares with Einstein's "Matter Warps Space" Tenet. 


 


Warps = Repels, No?


 


Never Build It, if you can buy it cheaper.


 


Fred


 



 


 "To be realistic, ether, if it exists, must possess mass."


 


   " We can read that in many papers, such a rest frame is attributed to a hypothetical “ether”.  However, there is a difference between an absolute frame of reference, which possesses only geometrical properties and a physical “ether”.  A “ether” must be understood as a “medium” which can have a physical interaction with other physical quantities, as mass and energy.  Ether is usually assumed to be a support for the transmission of light waves, in analogy with the transmission of sound, which is supported by air (or by solids and liquids).  However, acoustic theory shows that no sound can be transmitted through a medium, if that medium does not possesses mass.  Therefore some energy and some physical properties (other than geometrical properties) must exist in such a hypothesized ether, which can interact with the assumed waves moving through that ether.  To be realistic, ether, if it exists, must possess mass.  Therefore, there is a fundamental difference, between an “absolute frame of reference”, which is just a geometrical property, and which corresponds to the average motion of matter in space, and a “physical medium”, possessing physical properties like mass and energy, which supports waves.  It has been shown previously (15) that an absolute frame of reference (not the ether) is required in order to satisfy the principle of mass-energy conservation.  We read: "




“ For the moment, the sole property of that assumed ether is to establish an absolute origin to the velocity-frame of light and physical matter, because this frame of reference is absolutely needed to comply with the principle of energy and momentum conservation.”


 




 




----- Original Message ----- 




Sent: 2/28/2006 6:17:26 AM 


Subject: Re: Gravity, A Function of Mass/Energy-Charge/Magnetism






 


 


  "Consequently, we must realize that the physical concept of “charge” must be reconsidered.  It must not be confused with the remote electric field, which is always the same around any electric charge. We usually claim that the electric charge of the proton is equal to the electric charge of the electron, just because the field distribution is identical at r>re. We have seen that when more electromagnetic field energy is integrated inside the proton, within the classical electron radius re, there is no change of remote electric field around the particle.  Furthermore, we must understand that the electric field around a charge particle is not due to the “action-at-a-distance” around an electric charge located at one point.  An “action-at-a-distance“ implies an interaction between two physical elements located at different locations.  That is non-sense. Logically, the interaction between two elements can take place only, ! if they are located at the same place, at the same time.  The electric field, which is located around a charged particle, possesses its own existence at the location where it is measured.  It is not some magic “action-at-a-distance”.   An interaction between “particles” can take place only when the field of an interacting particle has reached the inside of the interacted particle.  It is always a field-to-field interaction at any distance.  Such a mechanism solves the “action-at-a-distance" paradox. 


        In order to reach a deeper understanding, the electric charge distribution forming the electron must be compared with another particle.  A similar electric field distribution takes place in the proton and the anti-proton, which also possess an electric charge.  Even for the proton, the (positive) electric field cannot exist down to zero radius, because this would also require an infinite amount of energy.  However, at a larger distance from its center, up to infinity, the proton electric field possesses exactly the same amplitude as the positron and the electron. 


  Since the proton mass is much larger than the electron mass, it takes the integration of a much larger amount of electric field to form the proton mass.  However, we know experimentally, that in the outer region of these two particles, the density of the electrical field is exactly identical.  Therefore the proton possesses an extra electric field, entirely located just inside the classical electron radius, which gives it the extra mass.  That extra inner charge does not produce any effect on the peripheral part of the particle.  At distances larger than the classical electron radius, the “amplitude” of the electric field surrounding the proton is exactly the same as for the electron.  This is in agreement with the observations that the (absolute) electric charge is the same for both particles."


 




Thus gravity cannot be a property of charge.


 


OTOH, the magnetic field increases with mass, but it's intensity decreases


as 1/r^4 wheras gravity acts as 1/r^2 between masses, hence gravity cannot be


a function of magnetism either.


 


However, Mass/Energy is an Intrinsic Function of Charge and Magnetism.


 


IOW, synthesizing a 1.0 kilogram "Antigravity Particle" that can experience 9.8 Newtons


of antigravity force (become weightless) at the earth's surface will only require 


c^2 (9.0^16) joules or about 100 milliquads of energy. 


 


Multiply requirement by 10 for synthesis and containment energy.


 


One quad = 10^18 joule or ~ 10^15 BTU = the daily global 


energy production-use


   


 


 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8--


From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Feb 28 08:48:25 2006
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Subject: Re: Gravity, A Function of Mass/Energy-Charge/Magnetism
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On Feb 28, 2006, at 4:16 AM, Frederick Sparber wrote:

>   http://www.newtonphysics.on.ca/magnetic/mass.html
>
>
>   "Consequently, we must realize that the physical concept of  
> “charge” must be reconsidered.  It must not be confused with the  
> remote electric field, which is always the same around any electric  
> charge. We usually claim that the electric charge of the proton is  
> equal to the electric charge of the electron, just because the  
> field distribution is identical at r>re. We have seen that when  
> more electromagnetic field energy is integrated inside the proton,  
> within the classical electron radius re, there is no change of  
> remote electric field around the particle.  Furthermore, we must  
> understand that the electric field around a charge particle is not  
> due to the “action-at-a-distance” around an electric charge located  
> at one point.  An “action-at-a-distance“ implies an interaction  
> between two physical elements located at different locations.  That  
> is non-sense. Logically, the interaction between two elements can  
> take place only, ! if they are located at the same place, at the  
> same time.  The electric field, which is located around a charged  
> particle, possesses its own existence at the location where it is  
> measured.  It is not some magic “action-at-a-distance”.   An  
> interaction between “particles” can take place only when the field  
> of an interacting particle has reached the inside of the interacted  
> particle.  It is always a field-to-field interaction at any  
> distance.  Such a mechanism solves the “action-at-a-distance" paradox.


This guy never heard of messenger particles?


>         In order to reach a deeper understanding, the electric  
> charge distribution forming the electron must be compared with  
> another particle.  A similar electric field distribution takes  
> place in the proton and the anti-proton, which also possess an  
> electric charge.  Even for the proton, the (positive) electric  
> field cannot exist down to zero radius, because this would also  
> require an infinite amount of energy.  However, at a larger  
> distance from its center, up to infinity, the proton electric field  
> possesses exactly the same amplitude as the positron and the electron.
>   Since the proton mass is much larger than the electron mass, it  
> takes the integration of a much larger amount of electric field to  
> form the proton mass.  However, we know experimentally, that in the  
> outer region of these two particles, the density of the electrical  
> field is exactly identical.  Therefore the proton possesses an  
> extra electric field, entirely located just inside the classical  
> electron radius, which gives it the extra mass.  That extra inner  
> charge does not produce any effect on the peripheral part of the  
> particle.

This guy never heard that the proton has empirically been determined  
to have structure?


> At distances larger than the classical electron radius, the  
> “amplitude” of the electric field surrounding the proton is exactly  
> the same as for the electron.  This is in agreement with the  
> observations that the (absolute) electric charge is the same for  
> both particles."
>
> Thus gravity cannot be a property of charge.


Absolutely no justification for the word "thus".


>
> OTOH, the magnetic field increases with mass, but it's intensity  
> decreases
> as 1/r^4 wheras gravity acts as 1/r^2 between masses, hence gravity  
> cannot be
> a function of magnetism either.

Wrong again.  Magnetic field intensity decreases as 1/r^3.   Force  
between dipoles decreases as 1/r^4.


>
> However, Mass/Energy is an Intrinsic Function of Charge and Magnetism.

It probably never crossed his mind that inertial mass and  
gravitational charge are differing things.

>
> IOW,

In other words?


> synthesizing a 1.0 kilogram "Antigravity Particle" that can  
> experience 9.8 Newtons
> of antigravity force (become weightless) at the earth's surface  
> will only require
> c^2 (9.0^16) joules or about 100 milliquads of energy.


There is no justification provided for assuming antimatter exhibits  
antigravity.

Cabin fever getting to me.  I just had to vent a little.  8^)

Horace Heffner

From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Feb 28 09:26:28 2006
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From: Horace Heffner 
Subject: Re: Update on Energy Costs
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 08:25:52 -0900
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Some older but still meaningful data on unit costs of energy:

http://www.awea.org/pubs/factsheets/Cost2001.PDF

Fuel Levelized costs (cents/kWh) (1996)

Coal               4.8-5.5
Gas                3.9-4.4
Hydro              5.1-11.3
Biomass            5.8-11.6
Nuclear           11.1-14.5
Wind (without PTC) 4.0-6.0
Wind (with PTC)    3.3-5.3

Horace Heffner

From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Feb 28 09:38:53 2006
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When the Takahashi motor first came out, it caused quite a stir. However 
the excitement soon faded. Later I saw a posting offering the moped that 
it was mounted in for sale. Based on the reports of it's performance, I 
assume that it was over unity in the beginning, The effect seemed to 
fade with time. If it was originially over unity, the effect must have 
been caused by a conditioning process.

I'm not too excited about O U magnetic motors, because if they do work, 
the best that they will do is  produce a detectable amount of energy.



--- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! ---

From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Feb 28 10:30:59 2006
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Interesting.  Did I mention that I signed a NDA on the Sprain motor?  
We had a lively discussion!

Terry

-----Original Message-----
From: Horace Heffner 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 19:10:03 -0900
Subject: Re: Sprain on Takahashi/Kawai

For "cogging" EM motors, it seems to me to make sense to increase the 
decelerating "cogging" angle to as much as possible, then put multiple 
motors sharing their armatures in tandem but out of phase. For example, 
if the cogging angle were 36 degrees, then 10 motors should cover the 
full 360 degree circle. If the cogging angle could be made 120 degrees, 
for example, then 3 motors in tandem should make for a perpetual motion 
machine, assuming such is possible. 
 
Horace Heffner 
 


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From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Feb 28 10:36:29 2006
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-----Original Message-----
From: Grimer



I now understand why the thing is so damned big compared to
the Kawai/Takahashi motor - and why the rotor arm turns nice
and slow - a great help for a doubting Thomas like me for whom
seeing is believing.  8-)

The slower that the build up can take place, the better.
One needs a very large arm (or arms) and a gearing system to
drive a generator.

<><><><><><><>

Of course, the speed is load dependent also,  the vid I posted shows 
the rotor under load.  It spins much faster freewheeling.  I think I 
have an image of the axial generator somewhere.  I load that up 
directly.

Terry
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From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Feb 28 11:33:44 2006
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I don't think you can close the loop on 2 Joules per cycle.  There are 
too many inefficiencies in the generation and transformation of the 
pulse energy.

The torque transducer was necessary for the development of EMILIE.  
This is like a 5th generation prototype.  The next step is to create a 
demostration unit with a COP of 20.

Here is an image of the axial flux alternator that I think Paul said he 
would use in the demonstration unit.

http://www.geocities.com/terry1094/Axial_flux_alternator.jpg

Terry

-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Palmer 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 12:53:16 -0000
Subject: Re: Sprain Mag Motor

Wouldn't it be relatively trivial to close the loop on this one - 
instead of having his $10k torque measurer, why not stick a (cheaper) 
generator on the shaft feeding a capacitor smoothed power supply for 
the electromagnet? Far more convincing than possibly dodgy oscilloscope 
measurements of power in vs power out... 
 
Nick Palmer  


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From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Feb 28 11:34:41 2006
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-----Original Message-----
From: hohlrauml6d
 
Of course, the speed is load dependent also, the vid I posted shows the 
rotor under load. It spins much faster freewheeling. I think I have an 
image of the axial generator somewhere. I load that up directly. 


<><><><><><><><>

http://www.geocities.com/terry1094/Axial_flux_alternator.jpg
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From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Feb 28 11:36:53 2006
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Hey, Paul, look  . . . .

you made peswiki.com!!  Now you're (in)famous! 

Terry

(Thanks, Frank)

-----Original Message-----
From: Grimer 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 05:54:00 +0000
Subject: Re: Sprain Mag Motor

I notice that there is an interesting article
in Wiki on Harry Paul Sprain's magnetic motor.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Paul_Harry_Sprain_magnet_motor

Frank



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From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Feb 28 11:39:24 2006
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Takahashi/Kawai operates with the mags in opposition.  This damages the 
magnetic spin alignments.  Sprain operates in attraction which can only 
enforce the alignments.

You really need to study your aether theory. 

Terry

-----Original Message-----
From: thomas malloy

When the Takahashi motor first came out, it caused quite a stir. 
However the excitement soon faded. Later I saw a posting offering the 
moped that it was mounted in for sale. Based on the reports of it's 
performance, I assume that it was over unity in the beginning, The 
effect seemed to fade with time. If it was originially over unity, the 
effect must have been caused by a conditioning process. 
 
I'm not too excited about O U magnetic motors, because if they do work, 
the best that they will do is produce a detectable amount of energy. 
 
 
--- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- 
http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- 
 


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Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 19:41:45 +0000
To: vortex-L@eskimo.com
From: Grimer 
Subject: Re: Gravity, A Function of Mass/Energy-Charge/Magnetism
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At 08:08 am 28/02/2006 -0700, you wrote:

> For a really cheap minus x.0 kg "Antigravity Particle" 
> it looks like "bottling" a few liters of "Beta Ether" 
> will satisfy the equation:
>
> -Fg = 6.67e-11 * Me * - Mbe
>
> Where Me = mass of the earth = 5.98e24 kg and  - 
> Mbe = the negative mass of Beta Ether contained
> in the "Genie" bottle.
>
> This squares with Einstein's "Matter Warps Space" Tenet. 
>
> Warps = Repels, No?
>
> Never Build It, if you can buy it cheaper.
>
> Fred
>
> http://www.newtonphysics.on.ca/magnetic/mass.html
>
> "To be realistic, ether, if it exists, must possess mass."



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yes, but it could possess neutral mass just as 
*en masse*  it possesses neutral charge.

Mass is energy. Looked at in terms of strain, energy mass is 
epsilon squared. Now a squared quantity has two roots, one 
positive and one negative. In the case of strain it is 
ludicrously simple to see what these positive and negative 
roots represent. 

Plus epsilon times plus epsilon represents compression or
increase in energy of the Beta-atmosphere.

Minus epsilon times minus epsilon represents tension or
decrease in energy of the Beta-atmosphere.

What about Kinetic energy? What about v^2?

If space was really were just emptiness, 
like it was spos't to be once upon a time, 
then the negative root of v^2 would be a bit of a poser. 
How on earth could something travel at a negative speed?

But of course, space ain't empty, is it!

Just as the Alpha-atmosphere is full of gas particle moving 
at an average speed around the speed of sound, so also the 
Beta-atmosphere is full of neutral mass Materon particles 
moving at an average speed around the speed of light. 

A negative speed is a speed below the ambient field speed.
a positive speed is a speed above the ambient field speed.

The Beta-atmosphere is like the materials of the Emperor’s 
New Suit.

   ---------------------------------------------------
   "Their colours and patterns, they said, were not 
   only exceptionally beautiful, but the clothes made 
   of their material possessed the wonderful quality 
   of being invisible to any man who was unfit for 
   his office or unpardonably stupid." 

   http://hca.gilead.org.il/emperor.html
   ---------------------------------------------------

 ;-)

Cheers,

Frank Grimer
 
     ===============================================
     milites ergo cum crucifixissent eum acceperunt 
     vestimenta eius et fecerunt quattuor partes 
     unicuique militi partem et tunicam erat autem 
     tunica inconsutilis desuper contexta per totum 

     dixerunt ergo ad invicem non scindamus eam 
     sed sortiamur de illa cuius sit ut scriptura 
     impleatur dicens partiti sunt vestimenta mea 
     sibi et in vestem meam miserunt sortem et 
     milites quidem haec fecerunt 
     ===============================================




From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Feb 28 12:07:27 2006
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Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 20:07:04 +0000
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
From: Grimer 
Subject: Re: Update on Energy Costs
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At 08:25 am 28/02/2006 -0900, you wrote:
>Some older but still meaningful data on unit costs of energy:
>
>http://www.awea.org/pubs/factsheets/Cost2001.PDF
>
>Fuel Levelized costs (cents/kWh) (1996)
>
>Coal               4.8-5.5
>Gas                3.9-4.4
>Hydro              5.1-11.3
>Biomass            5.8-11.6
>Nuclear           11.1-14.5
>Wind (without PTC) 4.0-6.0
>Wind (with PTC)    3.3-5.3
>
>Horace Heffner


For the benefit of non-US readers who haven't got
time to google, PTC = Production Tax Credit.  8-)

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Subject: Awesome photo
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 11:08:42 -0900
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Z-machine peripheral discharges

http://www.aip.org/png/2006/250.htm

From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Feb 28 12:21:34 2006
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From: "Frederick Sparber" 
To: "vortex-l" 
Subject: Re: Gravity, A Function of Mass/Energy-Charge/Magnetism
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 13:21:12 -0700
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 Horace Heffner wrote.
>
>
> On Feb 28, 2006, at 4:16 AM, Frederick Sparber wrote:
>
> >   http://www.newtonphysics.on.ca/magnetic/mass.html
> >
> >
> >   "Consequently, we must realize that the physical concept of  
> > “charge” must be reconsidered.  It must not be confused with the  
> > remote electric field, which is always the same around any electric  
> > charge. We usually claim that the electric charge of the proton is  
> > equal to the electric charge of the electron, just because the  
> > field distribution is identical at r>re. We have seen that when  
> > more electromagnetic field energy is integrated inside the proton,  
> > within the classical electron radius re, there is no change of  
> > remote electric field around the particle.  Furthermore, we must  
> > understand that the electric field around a charge particle is not  
> > due to the “action-at-a-distance” around an electric charge located  
> > at one point.  An “action-at-a-distance“ implies an interaction  
> > between two physical elements located at different locations.  That  
> > is non-sense. Logically, the interaction between two elements can  
> > take place only, ! if they are located at the same place, at the  
> > same time.  The electric field, which is located around a charged  
> > particle, possesses its own existence at the location where it is  
> > measured.  It is not some magic “action-at-a-distance”.   An  
> > interaction between “particles” can take place only when the field  
> > of an interacting particle has reached the inside of the interacted  
> > particle.  It is always a field-to-field interaction at any  
> > distance.  Such a mechanism solves the “action-at-a-distance" paradox.
>
>
> This guy never heard of messenger particles?
>
Must be a bunch of them keeping the moon in orbit. Solar wind messengers?

Will they penetrate Aerogel?  :-)
>
> >         In order to reach a deeper understanding, the electric  
> > charge distribution forming the electron must be compared with  
> > another particle.  A similar electric field distribution takes  
> > place in the proton and the anti-proton, which also possess an  
> > electric charge.  Even for the proton, the (positive) electric  
> > field cannot exist down to zero radius, because this would also  
> > require an infinite amount of energy.  However, at a larger  
> > distance from its center, up to infinity, the proton electric field  
> > possesses exactly the same amplitude as the positron and the electron.
> >   Since the proton mass is much larger than the electron mass, it  
> > takes the integration of a much larger amount of electric field to  
> > form the proton mass.  However, we know experimentally, that in the  
> > outer region of these two particles, the density of the electrical  
> > field is exactly identical.  Therefore the proton possesses an  
> > extra electric field, entirely located just inside the classical  
> > electron radius, which gives it the extra mass.  That extra inner  
> > charge does not produce any effect on the peripheral part of the  
> > particle.
>
> This guy never heard that the proton has empirically been determined  
> to have structure?
>
Not necessary for Paul Marmet's treatise.

Brian Greene's String Particle Theory allows
for 3 "quarks" 2 plus and 1 minus, bound in the proton or
2 minus and 1 plus in the antiproton. For instance the 1.02 MeV
photon (lambda = hc/E) collides and creates an electron-positron pair
each with a wavelength, lambda = hc/E  = the Compton Wavelength, h/mc = 
2(pi)r = 2.427e-12 
meters, hence the radius  ( r ) of the electron or positron (zero width
according to string theory) string-circle or 
washer-shaped "disk" particle is 3.86e-13  meters and the radius of each of
the  ~ 312 MeV circles/washer-disks
in a proton or antiproton with a wavelength, hc/E of 3.98e-15 meters is
6.33e-16 meters or about
1/610 that of the electron.
IOW, as the radius decreases, the mass/energy of a particle goes toward
infinity. (Swartzchild-Singularity radius, Black Hole?)
>
>
> > At distances larger than the classical electron radius, the  
> > “amplitude” of the electric field surrounding the proton is exactly  
> > the same as for the electron.  This is in agreement with the  
> > observations that the (absolute) electric charge is the same for  
> > both particles."
> >
> > Thus gravity cannot be a property of charge.
>
>
> Absolutely no justification for the word "thus".
>
Would you settle for Therefore?
>
> >
> > OTOH, the magnetic field increases with mass, but it's intensity  
> > decreases
> > as 1/r^4 whereas gravity acts as 1/r^2 between masses, hence gravity  
> > cannot be
> > a function of magnetism either.
>
> Wrong again.  Magnetic field intensity decreases as 1/r^3.   Force  
> between dipoles decreases as 1/r^4.
>
Right you are. This  GSU calculator bears it out:  

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/magnetic/curloo.html#c2
>
> >
> > However, Mass/Energy is an Intrinsic Function of Charge and Magnetism.
>
> It probably never crossed his mind that inertial mass and  
> gravitational charge are differing things.
>
Gravitational Charge? Do you mean an intrinsic monopole manifestation
associated 
with inertial mass-energy?  Energy is always positive, even if negative
charge is only
an opposite phase property.
> >
> > IOW,
>
> In other words?
>
Yes.
>
> > synthesizing a 1.0 kilogram "Antigravity Particle" that can  
> > experience 9.8 Newtons
> > of antigravity force (become weightless) at the earth's surface  
> > will only require
> > c^2 (9.0^16) joules or about 100 milliquads of energy.
>
>
> There is no justification provided for assuming antimatter exhibits  
> antigravity.
>
I didn't say antimatter, I said Antigravity Particle. Mike Nieto at Los
Alamos
published an article in Sci American  in the late 80s proposing an
experiment at
CERN to see if antimatter repelled gravity. I don't think it was done.
Antimatter
is positive energy too.
>
> Cabin fever getting to me.  I just had to vent a little.  8^)
>
Same here.  :-)

Fred

Tolstoy wrote; "men only learn when they're suffering". The question is;
how much do you want to learn?

> Horace Heffner



From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Feb 28 12:23:38 2006
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From: "Mark Goldes" 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Cc: jonesb9@pacbell.net
Subject: Re: Kawi Motors, Takahashi Motor, Magnetic Wankel
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 12:23:01 -0800
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Guys,

Kawai is a Japanese scientist holding U.S. Patents on magnetic motors.  He 
is almost certainly not connected with any of the motors that have been 
under discussion.  Minato may have studied with him at some point in the 
past.

Takahashi did not have anything to do with the magnetic wankel.  His motor 
is also described in a U.S. Patent  Our firm had North American rights to 
his technology.  We imported one of his scooters.  It did nothing unusual.  
Chris Tinsley, (may he rest in peace), a co-founder of Infinite Energy, was 
in London during one of my visits with the President of Takahashi's company. 
  Chris took some measurements in failing light, at dusk, and thought he had 
evidence of Over Unity, but we later realized he was mistaken.  Takahashi 
also has U.S. Patents on his magnets.  He claimed to have fabricated magnets 
for use in extending the battery life in NEC flat cell cellular phones.  It 
turned out they were actually made by Sumitomo Special Metals.  The 
President of his firm concluded he was a fraud.  We have had no contact with 
him, or his supposed work, ever since.

The magnetic wankel was invented by Kure Teko (sp?), a now defunct firm 
located in Hiroshima.
Many years ago, Popular Science did an excellent article about that motor, 
which was not OU.  Thomas Bearden, in one of his now legion errors, 
mislabeled it the Takahashi motor.  It bears no resemblence to the motor 
patented by Takahashi.

Sorry not to have sent this message earlier, but we have been exceedingly 
busy.

Mark

Magnetic Power Inc.




>From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net
>Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
>To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
>Subject: Re: Sprain Mag Motor
>Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:36:28 -0500
>
>Hey, Paul, look  . . . .
>
>you made peswiki.com!!  Now you're (in)famous! 
>
>Terry
>
>(Thanks, Frank)
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Grimer 
>To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
>Sent: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 05:54:00 +0000
>Subject: Re: Sprain Mag Motor
>
>I notice that there is an interesting article
>in Wiki on Harry Paul Sprain's magnetic motor.
>
>http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Paul_Harry_Sprain_magnet_motor
>
>Frank
>
>
>
>___________________________________________________
>Try the New Netscape Mail Today!
>Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List
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From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Feb 28 13:01:10 2006
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Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 13:00:43 -0800 (PST)
From: William Beaty 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Positive coverage of CF, "Living on Earth," Nat. Public Radio
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On monday I just heard some fairly positive coverage of LENR on public
radio. Interviews were with researchers rather than with skeptics...  and
Robert Park gives a few sentences *without* saying anything derogatory.
Amazing!

See:
  NPR segment:  Living on Earth
  http://www.loe.org/


Transcript and Realaudio link:

  Cold Fusion, a heated history
  http://tinyurl.com/l9zfh


(((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                            SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb at amasci com                         http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair
Seattle, WA  206-789-0775    unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci

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-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Goldes

Thomas Bearden, in one of his now legion errors, mislabeled it the 
Takahashi motor. It bears no resemblence to the motor patented by 
Takahashi. 

<><><><><><><>

Thanks for clearing that up, Mark.  Bearden's site was what confused me 
also.

Terry
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From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Feb 28 13:30:13 2006
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To: 
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Saw a similar event once while loading a tanktruck with JP4 jet fuel.
Rixhard
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Horace Heffner" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 2:08 PM
Subject: Awesome photo


> Z-machine peripheral discharges
> 
> http://www.aip.org/png/2006/250.htm
> 
>

From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Feb 28 14:52:08 2006
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-----Original Message-----
From: Grimer

A negative speed is a speed below the ambient field speed.
a positive speed is a speed above the ambient field speed.

<><><><><><>

Whoa, Grimer!  I never understood those root -1 or "imaginary" 
solutions so well before.

Thanks!

Terry
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From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com  Tue Feb 28 17:15:00 2006
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Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 17:12:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Jones Beene 
Subject: Pimp this Zero
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Mitsubishi was once the premier Asian manufacturer of
just about everything - and makes many fine car for
others, but under its own brand, it has been looking
for a bona-fide automotive success for some extended
time.

This may be it for them - and 'just-in-time' to
perhaps avert bankruptcy ( 'just-in-time' is their
middle name, it seems).

All four wheels have an individual electric motor
built into the wheel itself - and the flat batteries
are built into the floor of the van. It's all usable
space inside ...

http://www.megawattmotorworks.com/display.asp?dismode=article&artid=260

The "monobox" appearance may take some getting-used-to
- but hey, for those who treasure what's on the inside
- this looks to be the best eco-thing to come down the
pike in some time.... assuming those batteries are
available now, and at a reasonable price.

"Mitsubishi Premiers Electric MiniVan Concept" 
Source: Mitsubishi Motors  (2/28/2006)

The Mitsubishi Concept- EZ MIEV 4WD mono-box concept
(at the 76th Geneva International Motor Show) employs
4 in-wheel motors and a high energy-density
lithium-ion battery system as core technologies. The
Concept has high-stability road-hugging looks and a
wheel-at-a-corner layout made possible by using an
outer-rotor type in-wheel motor in each wheel. The
under-floor lithium-ion battery system keeps the floor
low and flat.

Way cool....

And speaking of bad timing (just-out-of-time?)...
didn't GM just sell their stake in Mitsubishi... 

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-----Original Message-----
From: Jones Beene

All four wheels have an individual electric motor
built into the wheel itself - and the flat batteries
are built into the floor of the van. It's all usable
space inside ...

<><><><><><>

Now *that's* what I'm talkin' about!  I'm tradin' my xB(ox).

Terry
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From: "Jones Beene" 
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Subject: Re: The Allure of "Selective" torque
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Blank
Richard,

"Nissan has more than half the solution to the firing circuit 
needed for a true mag motor."

I'm not familiar with this circuit. Do you have a reference for 
it?

Thanks,

Jones