From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 00:15:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k218Eqwf024954; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 00:14:52 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k218EnK0024930; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 00:14:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 00:14:49 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=U6NrYQCSAnlBhUwyU4Fm6d4JHlGzxIzmlzuKalTk1Hc9XmQ46uKSdaxHbvz0nPsX; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200633181441942@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Gravity, A Function of Mass/Energy-Charge/Magnetism Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 01:14:41 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9406e9c5a37e67522bab5d46565627fdc9b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.199 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66689 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Earlier I wrote: "Brian Greene's String Particle Theory allows for 3 "quarks" 2 plus and 1 minus, bound in the proton or 2 minus and 1 plus in the antiproton. For instance the 1.02 MeVphoton (lambda = hc/E) collides and creates an electron-positron pair each with a wavelength, lambda = hc/E = the Compton Wavelength, h/mc = 2(pi)r = 2.427e-12 meters, hence the radius ( r ) of the electron or positron (zero width according to string theory) string-circle or washer-shaped "disk" particle is 3.86e-13 meters and the radius of each of the ~ 312 MeV circles/washer-disks in a proton or antiproton with a wavelength, hc/E of 3.98e-15 meters is 6.33e-16 meters or about 1/610 that of the electron. IOW, as the radius decreases, the mass/energy of a particle goes toward infinity. " And with a touch of humor: "synthesizing a 1.0 kilogram "Antigravity Particle" that can experience 9.8 Newtons of antigravity force (become weightless) at the earth's surface will only require c^2 (9.0^16) joules or about 100 milliquads of energy." Since particles are string circle waves resembling a washer or disk and are only an inertial mass it might be possible to cage an EM wave in a cavity of sorts circling in such a manner that it creates a charge +/- q and creates the seemingly "Unified Field" EM Gravitational Force. A rough calculation based on prior experience suggests that such an entity, in a hard vacuum, creating 5.0 "ampere-meters" can exert mimic the gravitational force equivalent of a kilogram mass at the earth's surface. ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Earlier I wrote:
 
"Brian Greene's String Particle Theory allows
for 3 "quarks" 2 plus and 1 minus, bound in the proton or
2 minus and 1 plus in the antiproton.
For instance the 1.02 MeVphoton (lambda = hc/E) collides and creates an electron-positron pair
each with a wavelength, lambda = hc/E = the Compton Wavelength, h/mc =
2(pi)r = 2.427e-12 meters, hence the radius ( r ) of the electron or positron (zero width
according to string theory) string-circle or washer-shaped "disk"
particle is 3.86e-13 meters and the radius of each of the ~ 312 MeV circles/washer-disks
in a proton or antiproton with a wavelength, hc/E of 3.98e-15 meters is 6.33e-16 meters or about
1/610 that of the electron.
IOW, as the radius decreases, the mass/energy of a particle goes toward
infinity. "
 
And with a touch of humor:
 
"synthesizing a 1.0 kilogram "Antigravity Particle" that can experience 9.8 Newtons
of antigravity force (become weightless) at the earth's surface will only require
c^2 (9.0^16) joules or about 100 milliquads of energy."
 
Since particles are string circle waves resembling a washer or disk and are only
an inertial mass it might be possible to cage an EM wave in a cavity of sorts circling in
such a manner that it creates a charge +/- q and creates the seemingly "Unified Field"
EM Gravitational Force.
 
A rough calculation based on prior experience suggests that such an entity, in a hard vacuum,
creating 5.0 "ampere-meters" can exert mimic the gravitational force equivalent
of a kilogram mass at the earth's surface.
 
 
 
 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 05:40:08 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21DduhG029131; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 05:39:56 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k21DdpCa029084; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 05:39:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 05:39:51 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <000401c63d35$986e6310$ed027841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: References: <003101c63be6$1b64de30$24027841@xptower> <003701c63ce5$cce27b90$6401a8c0@NuDell> Subject: Re: The Allure of "Selective" torque Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 07:39:40 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2005-06-05) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.8 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66690 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Howdy Jones, Pull up latest info on Nissan Motor's stepless transmission and study the electronic control for automatic torque proportioning. Notice they use a system of differential gearing to achieve the stepless function.Years ago, the Sweden developed a firing circuit for variable speed control of conveyor belt motors. We used some of their 250 HP units back in the 1970's. Worked good but poor quality electronics in those days. Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jones Beene" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 10:08 PM Subject: Re: The Allure of "Selective" torque > Blank > Richard, > > "Nissan has more than half the solution to the firing circuit needed for a > true mag motor." > > I'm not familiar with this circuit. Do you have a reference for it? > > Thanks, > > Jones > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 07:05:20 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21F4odJ011690; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 07:04:50 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k21F4m2O011675; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 07:04:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 07:04:48 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=tBi8DLe3YsEqxoOBPeGi+qnNhzJ6moLLbBYZMGViyd4lXbI0u4dMwBwXJzYYxE6p; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200633115443988@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Gravity, A Function of Mass/Energy-Charge/Magnetism Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:04:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940289c363b848b00abfa0b457b886e5b16350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.25 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66691 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Electron and Positron String Circle wavelength hc/E = 2.436e-12 meters. The Three Proton-Antiproton String Circle "quark" wavelength hc/E = 3.98e-15 meters. Electron-Positron Charge +/- q circle time Te = lambda/c = 8.12e-21 seconds Proton-Antiproton +/- q circle time Tp = lambda/c = 1.33e-23 seconds Electron-Positron Current = +/- q/Te = 19.7 amperes , and 4.8e-11 ampere-meters Proton-Antiproton Current = +/- q/Tp = 1.2e4 amperes, and 4.8e-11 ampere-meters The electrostatic force between two charges q at r^2 = 1.0 meters = q^2/ 4(pi) (eo)r^2 = 2.304e-28 newtons. OTOH. K* (ampere-meters)^2/r^2 = 2.304e-28 newtons, But, K = 12.57e-7/4(pi) = 1.0e-7 where 12.57e-7 is the permittivity of the vacuum a magnetic property attributed to the 1/r^2 force between point poles Fm = 1.0e-7 m1 * m2/r^2. Implying that Gravity is a "Unified Field" ( Monopole? ) property of inertial mass particles Totally confused. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Electron and Positron String Circle wavelength hc/E = 2.436e-12  meters.
 
The Three Proton-Antiproton String Circle "quark" wavelength hc/E = 3.98e-15 meters.
 
Electron-Positron Charge +/- q  circle time Te  = lambda/c  = 8.12e-21 seconds
 
Proton-Antiproton +/- q circle time Tp =  lambda/c = 1.33e-23 seconds
 
Electron-Positron Current  = +/- q/Te =  19.7 amperes , and 4.8e-11 ampere-meters
 
Proton-Antiproton Current = +/- q/Tp  = 1.2e4 amperes, and 4.8e-11 ampere-meters
 
The electrostatic force between two charges  q at  r^2 = 1.0 meters = q^2/ 4(pi) (eo)r^2 = 2.304e-28  newtons.
 
OTOH.  K* (ampere-meters)^2/r^2 = 2.304e-28 newtons,
 
But, K = 12.57e-7/4(pi) = 1.0e-7 where 12.57e-7 is the permittivity of the vacuum a magnetic property
attributed to the 1/r^2  force between point poles Fm = 1.0e-7 m1 * m2/r^2.
 
Implying that Gravity is a "Unified Field"  ( Monopole? )  property of  inertial mass particles
 
Totally confused.
 
Fred
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 11:40:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21Je7NG005745; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 11:40:07 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k21Je5i0005719; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 11:40:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 11:40:05 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060301114255.02966e60@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 11:43:09 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: global warming: spin or not spin? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_784367281==.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66692 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=====================_784367281==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Does anybody wish to comment on this sentence? "The primary greenhouse gas is water vapor, not carbon dioxide.7 " Quote Source: http://www.nationalcenter.org/TSR020905.html Quote Reference: "The Greenhouse Effect and Greenhouse Gases: An Overview," Energy Information Administration, U.S. Department of Energy (available at http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/pubs_html/attf94_v2/chap2.html) for a good summary of this issue understandable to the layman. Thank you, Steve --=====================_784367281==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Does anybody wish to comment on this sentence?

"The primary greenhouse gas is water vapor, not carbon dioxide.7 "

Quote Source: http://www.nationalcenter.org/TSR020905.html

Quote Reference: "The Greenhouse Effect and Greenhouse Gases: An Overview," Energy Information Administration, U.S. Department of Energy (available at http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/pubs_html/attf94_v2/chap2.html) for a good summary of this issue understandable to the layman.


Thank you,

Steve --=====================_784367281==.ALT-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 13:14:24 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21LDuQV018638; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:13:57 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k21LDrfQ018600; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:13:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:13:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20060301114255.02966e60@mail.newenergytimes.com> References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060301114255.02966e60@mail.newenergytimes.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <777AC809-11CC-4330-B6CE-4C3BACFD11A1@mtaonline.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: global warming: spin or not spin? Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:13:35 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66693 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mar 1, 2006, at 10:43 AM, Steven Krivit wrote: > Does anybody wish to comment on this sentence? > > "The primary greenhouse gas is water vapor, not carbon dioxide.7 " > > Quote Source: http://www.nationalcenter.org/TSR020905.html > > Quote Reference: "The Greenhouse Effect and Greenhouse Gases: An > Overview," Energy Information Administration, U.S. Department of > Energy (available at http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/pubs_html/ > attf94_v2/chap2.html) for a good summary of this issue > understandable to the layman. The above link appears to be no longer current. The author of the above referenced line appears to have no appreciation for the effect high altitude water vapor, or of global warming on high altitude water vapor, and thus for the powerful feedback effect that is present. There is a notable lack of H2O in the DOE Global Warming Potentials link: http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/1605/gg02rpt/pdf/appendixg.pdf In fact, it states: "Short-lived gases such as water vapor, carbon monoxide, tropospheric ozone, and other ambient air pollutants (e.g., nitrogen oxide, and non methane volatile organic compounds), and tropospheric aerosols (e.g., sulfur dioxide products and black carbon), however, are present in very different quantities spatially around the world, and consequently it is difficult to quantify their global radiative forcing impacts. GWP values are generally not attributed to these gases that are short-lived and spatially heterogeneous in the atmosphere.11 " However, it is high altitude water vapor that is the ultimate concern. Low altitude water vapor increases the Earth's albedo, but high altitude water vapor acts as a greenhouse gas, both here and on Venus. There is a good discussion of the Earth greenhouse effect at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect however, this discussion is centered on things as they are now, not as they will be as runaway global warming occurs. For that Venus serves as a better model. The non-linear response of high altitude water vapor to sea warming is astounding. See: http://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/news/releases/2002/02_60AR.html which states: "Rabbette analyzed clear-sky data above the tropical Pacific from March 2000 to July 2001. She determined that water vapor above 5 kilometers (3 miles) altitude in the atmosphere contributes significantly to the runaway greenhouse signature. She found that at 9 kilometers (5.6 miles) above the Pacific warm pool, the relative humidity in the atmosphere can be greater than 70 percent - more than three times the normal range. In nearby regions of the Pacific where the sea surface temperature is just a few degrees cooler, the atmospheric relative humidity is only 20 percent. These drier regions of the neighboring atmosphere may contribute to stabilizing the local runaway greenhouse effect, Rabbette said." Additionally, methane is lighter than air. As far as I know, little has been made of this fact. In the atmosphere, methane ultimately oxidizes to form CO2 and water vapor. Methane released directly into the air can thus be assumed to oxidize mostly at a high altitude. The coming arctic methane release will have a significant effect in the upper atmosphere due to methane's atmospheric life of 12 years. (For methane life see Table G1 in http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/1605/gg02rpt/pdf/appendixg.pdf). I earlier made a number of relevant comments on vortex, summarized with references at http://mtaonline.net/~hheffner/LastResort.pdf and in 1998 debates on s.p.f, summarized with a few more current related references at http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/MJonesSPF.pdf Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 14:30:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21MTjeO028229; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 14:29:49 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k21MTgLL028194; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 14:29:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 14:29:42 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060301143155.029c0098@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 14:32:57 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steve Krivit Subject: NPR show increasing web traffic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <-cv9WD.A.V4G.WBiBEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66694 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hey Jed, I've seen a slight jump and some folks tell me its from the NPR show. I bet you've seen increased traffic too? s From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 15:05:55 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k21N5Snk017614; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:05:28 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k21N5Qe3017601; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:05:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:05:26 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <001a01c63d84$9bece990$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> From: "Nick Palmer" To: References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060301114255.02966e60@mail.newenergytimes.com> Subject: Re: global warming: spin or not spin? Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:05:09 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01C63D84.962D5AD0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66695 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C63D84.962D5AD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <> Of course it is - so what? The ordinary "life" of water vapour in the = atmosphere is ephemeral, CO2 is not. In any case, one of the effects of = warming, due to CO2 and methane etc in some latitudes, may be an = increase in water vapour (humidity) levels which would cause a positive = feedback. This organisation (National Center for Public Policy Research) uses = false logic piled upon false logic and simple rhetoric to blind the = naive to the truth. A small example - they quote from four organisations = that have "come out" in favour of action to prevent climate change. They = say that these organisations are not the objective purveyors of = scientific reason that they purport to be because they exist to promote = liberal views and to counter "conservative" views. Their logic is false = - just because the organisations they are criticising have political = aims does not mean that what these others say is incorrect. The NCPPR's = rhetoric is clearly trying to steer people into believing that any = organisation that promotes the climate change hypothesis is, ipso = facto, a "red under the bed", and that there is no scientific consensus = that climate change is real, is threatening us and action to mitigate = the worst effects must be taken now.=20 I wish I could slap irresponsible people like this around the face - = very, very hard. Nick Palmer ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C63D84.962D5AD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<<Does anybody wish to comment on this sentence?

"The primary greenhouse gas is water vapor, = not carbon=20 dioxide.7 ">>
 
 
Of course it is - so what? The ordinary = "life" of=20 water vapour in the atmosphere is ephemeral, CO2 is not. In any case, = one of the=20 effects of warming, due to CO2 and methane etc in some latitudes, = may be an=20 increase in water vapour (humidity) levels which would cause = a positive=20 feedback.
     This = organisation=20 (National Center for Public Policy Research) uses false logic piled = upon=20 false logic and simple rhetoric to blind the naive to the = truth. A=20 small example - they quote from four organisations that have "come = out" in=20 favour of action to prevent climate change. They say that these = organisations=20 are not the objective purveyors of scientific reason that they = purport to=20 be because they exist to promote liberal views and to counter=20 "conservative" views. Their logic is false - just because the = organisations they=20 are criticising have political aims does not mean that what these=20 others say is incorrect.  The NCPPR's rhetoric is clearly = trying=20 to steer people into believing that any organisation that promotes=20 the climate change hypothesis is, ipso  facto, = a "red under=20 the bed",  and that there is no scientific consensus that climate = change is=20 real, is threatening us and action to mitigate the worst effects = must be=20 taken now. 
    I wish I could slap=20 irresponsible people like this around the face - very, very=20 hard.
 
 
Nick Palmer

------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C63D84.962D5AD0-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 16:49:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k220mopI007907; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 16:48:50 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k220mmqY007886; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 16:48:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 16:48:48 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060301164558.02ad3d78@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 16:51:20 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: Re: global warming: spin or not spin? In-Reply-To: <001a01c63d84$9bece990$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060301114255.02966e60@mail.newenergytimes.com> <001a01c63d84$9bece990$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66696 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: It was my understanding that greenhouse gases are only those which have the particular characteristic of absorbing "the wavelengths of reflected radiation." It was told to me that only specific gasses, not water vapor, have this characteristic. Comments? Disagreements? This is what I wrote in "The Rebirth of Cold Fusion": The problem of global warming predominantly results from the combustion of fossil fuels. According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, "fossil fuels burned to run cars and trucks, heat homes and businesses, and power factories are responsible for about 98 percent of U.S. carbon dioxide emissions, 24 percent of methane emissions, and 18 percent of nitrous oxide emissions." These are the so-called "greenhouse gasses." Carbon dioxide is the greatest culprit. It is odorless and invisible; for the most part, it does its damage without our awareness. Carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gasses collect in the upper part of the Earth's atmosphere and remain trapped there. When solar radiation passes through the Earth's atmosphere, most of this radiation is absorbed by the earth's surface. However, some of the solar radiation is reflected back to the atmosphere. Ordinarily, part of this radiation would continue onward to outer space, and part would be reflected back to earth. However, as a blanket of greenhouse gasses accumulates in the upper atmosphere, it absorbs the wavelengths of reflected radiation and converts it into thermal energy. The gasses remains trapped, upsetting the delicate energy balance as the Earth makes its yearly journey around the sun, and contributing to an increase in global temperature worldwide. s From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 16:52:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k220q8Pm009689; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 16:52:08 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k220q7Gd009670; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 16:52:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 16:52:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=FoheSQmQuG5yFS45P8OvIHxingfX4w6RJEZcKBnwaQfZR0ntzKoWqv6EDb4VD6wunhYhVw9rYtFz50apA1dYOJQQ12zo8AiAQYvirFQLuBJ6rxaXV9cZQ1C24zuLd9QB4Rfnk+h58+UlvQdbRvJlgaenFs/AzKTK6YPMngic6JI= Message-ID: Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 17:52:00 -0700 From: "leaking pen" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: global warming: spin or not spin? In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20060301114255.02966e60@mail.newenergytimes.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_205_13830950.1141260720780" References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060301114255.02966e60@mail.newenergytimes.com> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66697 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_Part_205_13830950.1141260720780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline honestly , its like calling co2 the worst. theres MORE of it, but other gases are more efficient in their smaller amounts at causing the warming effects. On 3/1/06, Steven Krivit wrote: > > Does anybody wish to comment on this sentence? > > *"The primary greenhouse gas is water vapor, not carbon dioxide.*7 " > > Quote Source: http://www.nationalcenter.org/TSR020905.html > > Quote Reference: "The Greenhouse Effect and Greenhouse Gases: An > Overview," Energy Information Administration, U.S. Department of Energy > (available at http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/pubs_html/attf94_v2/chap2.html= ) > for a good summary of this issue understandable to the layman. > > > Thank you, > > Steve > -- "Monsieur l'abb=E9, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to ma= ke it possible for you to continue to write" Voltaire ------=_Part_205_13830950.1141260720780 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline honestly , its like calling co2 the worst.  theres MORE of it, but oth= er gases are more efficient in their smaller amounts at causing the warming= effects.

On 3/1/06, S= teven Krivit <steven@ne= wenergytimes.com> wrote:
Does anybody wish to comment on this sentence= ?

"The primary greenhouse = gas is water vapor, not carbon dioxide.7= "

Quote Source: http://www.nationalcenter.org/TSR020905.html

 Quote Reference: "The Greenhouse Effect and Greenhouse Gases: An Overv= iew," Energy Information Administration, U.S. Department of Energy (av= ailable at http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/pubs_html/attf94_v2/chap2.html) for a good= summary of this issue understandable to the layman.


Tha= nk you,

Steve



--= =20
"Monsieur l'abb=E9, I detest what you write, but I would give my l= ife to make it possible for you to continue to write"  Volta= ire=20 ------=_Part_205_13830950.1141260720780-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 18:25:34 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k222P5ej027236; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:25:06 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k222P4ZS027219; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:25:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:25:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <000e01c63da0$7e5eedd0$c9037841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060301114255.02966e60@mail.newenergytimes.com> <001a01c63d84$9bece990$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <6.2.0.14.2.20060301164558.02ad3d78@mail.newenergytimes.com> Subject: Re: global warming: spin or not spin? Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 20:24:54 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2005-06-05) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.8 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66698 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Howdy Steven, It seems that everyone is correct and yet incorrect on the subject of " greenhouse" gasses. The devil is in the details. The mix differs from around the globe. Add forest fires and volcanos and every attempt to measure gets skewed. The oceans play a vital role. One of the unknowns remain the ever increasing foresting of the USA. Surprises everyone to learn the US is NOT deforested. A glimpse of any old photo prior to 1875 will show plains and grass across much of the US. Nowadays, cities are covered in trees and shrub which were previously keep down by the huge plains fires that would sweep across parts of an entire state. The effect of ever increasing foresting of the US has yet to be quantified for use as a tool in studying the greenhouse effect. We don't know, we suspect, we surmise, but cool heads look at facts and cool the " shrill". Do I believe these greenhouse gasses are warming the planet.. perhaps CO2 is causing some.. but.. there is so much shrill and so much money made off shrill, the facts are skewed. NASA has some good readings but who can believe anything coming out of NASA anymore. A volcano the size of the 1803 Borneo bomb would help put some suspicions to rest. Of course, it would freeze the yankees and Europe. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Krivit" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 6:51 PM Subject: Re: global warming: spin or not spin? > It was my understanding that greenhouse gases are only those which have > the particular characteristic of absorbing "the wavelengths of reflected > radiation." It was told to me that only specific gasses, not water vapor, > have this characteristic. Comments? Disagreements? > > > This is what I wrote in "The Rebirth of Cold Fusion": > > > The problem of global warming predominantly results from the combustion of > fossil fuels. According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, > "fossil fuels burned to run cars and trucks, heat homes and businesses, > and power factories are responsible for about 98 percent of U.S. carbon > dioxide emissions, 24 percent of methane emissions, and 18 percent of > nitrous oxide emissions." These are the so-called "greenhouse gasses." > > Carbon dioxide is the greatest culprit. It is odorless and invisible; for > the most part, it does its damage without our awareness. Carbon dioxide > and other greenhouse gasses collect in the upper part of the Earth's > atmosphere and remain trapped there. When solar radiation passes through > the Earth's atmosphere, most of this radiation is absorbed by the earth's > surface. However, some of the solar radiation is reflected back to the > atmosphere. Ordinarily, part of this radiation would continue onward to > outer space, and part would be reflected back to earth. > > However, as a blanket of greenhouse gasses accumulates in the upper > atmosphere, it absorbs the wavelengths of reflected radiation and converts > it into thermal energy. The gasses remains trapped, upsetting the delicate > energy balance as the Earth makes its yearly journey around the sun, and > contributing to an increase in global temperature worldwide. > > > s > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 23:33:04 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k227WbMj016894; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:32:38 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k227WZK5016864; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:32:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:32:35 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20060301164558.02ad3d78@mail.newenergytimes.com> References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060301114255.02966e60@mail.newenergytimes.com> <001a01c63d84$9bece990$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <6.2.0.14.2.20060301164558.02ad3d78@mail.newenergytimes.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: global warming: spin or not spin? Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 22:32:28 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: <32_svB.A.cHE.S-pBEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66699 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mar 1, 2006, at 3:51 PM, Steven Krivit wrote: > It was my understanding that greenhouse gases are only those which > have the particular characteristic of absorbing "the wavelengths of > reflected radiation." It is not the absorption of *reflected* radiation that is key. It is the absorption of infra-red radiation that is key. H2O and CO2 both are absorbers of infra-red radiation, both coming directly from the sun, and that which results from black-body radiation from the heated Earth surface and atmosphere. That black-body radiation is not reflected, it is merely the byproduct of hot molecules. O2 and N2 are not absorbers of infra-red, which makes both the H2O and CO2 concentrations critical. > It was told to me that only specific gasses, not water vapor, have > this characteristic. Comments? Disagreements? The role of H2O in the greenhouse effect, especially a runaway greenhouse effect, is profound. The Wiki article states: "Water vapor (H2O) causes about 60% of Earth's naturally-occurring greenhouse effect. Other gases influencing the effect include carbon dioxide (CO2) (about 26%), methane (CH4), nitrous oxide (N2O) and ozone (O3) (about 8%). Collectively, these gases are known as greenhouse gases." See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect As I noted earlier, the DOE simply ducks the atmospheric water issue on its Global Warming Potentials page by saying:"Short-lived gases such as water vapor, carbon monoxide, tropospheric ozone, and other ambient air pollutants (e.g., nitrogen oxide, and non methane volatile organic compounds), and tropospheric aerosols (e.g., sulfur dioxide products and black carbon), however, are present in very different quantities spatially around the world, and consequently it is difficult to quantify their global radiative forcing impacts. GWP values are generally not attributed to these gases that are short- lived and spatially heterogeneous in the atmosphere.11 " As I have emphasized many times, the key to this issue is at *what altitude* the water vapor is found. The amount of water vapor at high altitudes will increase at a horrific and generally unappreciated rate as sea temperature rises. See: http://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/news/releases/2002/02_60AR.html which states: "Rabbette analyzed clear-sky data above the tropical Pacific from March 2000 to July 2001. She determined that water vapor above 5 kilometers (3 miles) altitude in the atmosphere contributes significantly to the runaway greenhouse signature. She found that at 9 kilometers (5.6 miles) above the Pacific warm pool, the relative humidity in the atmosphere can be greater than 70 percent - more than three times the normal range. In nearby regions of the Pacific where the sea surface temperature is just a few degrees cooler, the atmospheric relative humidity is only 20 percent. These drier regions of the neighboring atmosphere may contribute to stabilizing the local runaway greenhouse effect, Rabbette said." Additionally, methane is lighter than air. As far as I know, little has been made of this fact. In the atmosphere, methane ultimately oxidizes to form CO2 and water vapor. Methane released directly into the air can thus be assumed to oxidize mostly at a high altitude. The coming arctic methane release will have a significant effect in the upper atmosphere due to methane's atmospheric life of 12 years. (For methane life see Table G1 in http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/1605/gg02rpt/pdf/appendixg.pdf). A high moisture content at low altitudes does increase infra-red absorption, but also typically results in clouds which reflect light above that altitude, thus increasing Earth's albedo, thus reducing the energy which is absorbed by the dense lower atmosphere and by the surface. Water at high altitude absorbs infra-red radiation before it can be relected from the clouds, and absorbs infra-red radiation reflected from both the clouds and from the surface of the earth, as well as black body radiation from the surface and the lower atmosphere. > > > This is what I wrote in "The Rebirth of Cold Fusion": > > > The problem of global warming predominantly results from the > combustion of fossil fuels. According to the U.S. Environmental > Protection Agency, "fossil fuels burned to run cars and trucks, > heat homes and businesses, and power factories are responsible for > about 98 percent of U.S. carbon dioxide emissions, 24 percent of > methane emissions, and 18 percent of nitrous oxide emissions." > These are the so-called "greenhouse gasses." > > Carbon dioxide is the greatest culprit. It is odorless and > invisible; for the most part, it does its damage without our > awareness. Carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gasses collect in > the upper part of the Earth's atmosphere and remain trapped there. > When solar radiation passes through the Earth's atmosphere, most of > this radiation is absorbed by the earth's surface. However, some of > the solar radiation is reflected back to the atmosphere. > Ordinarily, part of this radiation would continue onward to outer > space, and part would be reflected back to earth. > > However, as a blanket of greenhouse gasses accumulates in the upper > atmosphere, it absorbs the wavelengths of reflected radiation and > converts it into thermal energy. The gasses remains trapped, > upsetting the delicate energy balance as the Earth makes its yearly > journey around the sun, and contributing to an increase in global > temperature worldwide. The above description is not accurate. It ignores the critical wavelength shift to the red that occurs on the earth's surface and in the atmosphere. Much radiant energy critical to the greenhouse effect is initially high frequency and passes readily through the atmosphere and results in warming of either molecules in the atmosphere or on the surface. These warmed molecules emit black body radiation in the infra-red band. The greenhouse effect is due to the ability of greenhouse gasses to absorb incoming infra-red while passing high bandwidth (visible and UV) energy and then to block the returning infra-red that occurs due to the black body radiation increase caused by warming due to light absorption. H2O and CO2 absorb this black body radiation that would otherwise radiate out to space. Black-body radiation making it to space results in a lower Earth temperature. If black-body radiation is increasingly absorbed, on the way back to space, by increased concentrations of H2O, then the atmosphere warms up. Thermal equilibrium can only be reached by returning to space the same amount of radiation power as absorbed from the sun, even though that radiation is returned at a much lower frequency. If the total radiated power is less that that incoming from the sun then Earth's temperature will continue to rise until the equilibrium point is reached. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 23:38:01 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k227bWxI019492; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:37:37 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k227bUow019447; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:37:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:37:30 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <20060302013638.l7i2yp08e8ssgosg@webmail.usfamily.net> Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 01:36:38 -0600 From: temalloy@usfamily.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, Nick Palmer Subject: Re: global warming: spin or not spin? References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060301114255.02966e60@mail.newenergytimes.com> <001a01c63d84$9bece990$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> In-Reply-To: <001a01c63d84$9bece990$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66700 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Nick Palmer posted under the bed", and that there is no scientific consensus that > climate change is real, is threatening us and action to mitigate the > worst effects must be taken now. > I wish I could slap irresponsible people like this around the face > - very, very hard. I was listening to the Junkman of www.junkscience.com being interviewed. I asked him why the arctic ice was melting. IMHO, if the Warming scenario is happening, there is nothing that we can do about it. I'm more interested in the Sun's producing more energy and volcanos. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 1 23:55:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k227kXax023336; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:46:34 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k227kTex023299; Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:46:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:46:29 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <20060302013638.l7i2yp08e8ssgosg@webmail.usfamily.net> References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060301114255.02966e60@mail.newenergytimes.com> <001a01c63d84$9bece990$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <20060302013638.l7i2yp08e8ssgosg@webmail.usfamily.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <86F56DD2-7590-4B62-83B2-47193C217CF1@mtaonline.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: global warming: spin or not spin? Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 22:46:13 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66701 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mar 1, 2006, at 10:36 PM, temalloy@usfamily.net wrote: > IMHO, if the Warming scenario is happening, there is nothing that > we can do > about it. Not true. See: http://mtaonline.net/~hheffner/LastResort.pdf Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 01:31:34 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k229VA4F002580; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 01:31:11 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k229V7jW002557; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 01:31:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 01:31:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00ad01c63ddc$092ef690$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060301114255.02966e60@mail.newenergytimes.com> <001a01c63d84$9bece990$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <6.2.0.14.2.20060301164558.02ad3d78@mail.newenergytimes.com> Subject: Re: global warming: spin or not spin? Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:30:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0609-1, 01/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66702 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace is absolutely right here, what greenhouse gases block, just like glass panes do in actual greenhouses, is not reflected radiation (mostly visible wavelengths, to which they are just as transparent on their way up -reflected- than on the way down -incident-) but thermal radiation (infra red, emitted including at night when there is no incident radiation to reflect). Steve I am afraid your description needs revising. Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Horace Heffner" To: Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 8:32 AM Subject: Re: global warming: spin or not spin? > > On Mar 1, 2006, at 3:51 PM, Steven Krivit wrote: > >> It was my understanding that greenhouse gases are only those which have >> the particular characteristic of absorbing "the wavelengths of reflected >> radiation." > > It is not the absorption of *reflected* radiation that is key. It is the > absorption of infra-red radiation that is key. H2O and CO2 both are > absorbers of infra-red radiation, both coming directly from the sun, and > that which results from black-body radiation from the heated Earth > surface and atmosphere. That black-body radiation is not reflected, it > is merely the byproduct of hot molecules. O2 and N2 are not absorbers of > infra-red, which makes both the H2O and CO2 concentrations critical. > > >> It was told to me that only specific gasses, not water vapor, have this >> characteristic. Comments? Disagreements? > > The role of H2O in the greenhouse effect, especially a runaway greenhouse > effect, is profound. > > The Wiki article states: "Water vapor (H2O) causes about 60% of Earth's > naturally-occurring greenhouse effect. Other gases influencing the effect > include carbon dioxide (CO2) (about 26%), methane (CH4), nitrous oxide > (N2O) and ozone (O3) (about 8%). Collectively, these gases are known as > greenhouse gases." See: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect > > As I noted earlier, the DOE simply ducks the atmospheric water issue on > its Global Warming Potentials page by saying:"Short-lived gases such as > water vapor, carbon monoxide, tropospheric ozone, and other ambient air > pollutants (e.g., nitrogen oxide, and non methane volatile organic > compounds), and tropospheric aerosols (e.g., sulfur dioxide products and > black carbon), however, are present in very different quantities > spatially around the world, and consequently it is difficult to quantify > their global radiative forcing impacts. GWP values are generally not > attributed to these gases that are short- lived and spatially > heterogeneous in the atmosphere.11 " > > As I have emphasized many times, the key to this issue is at *what > altitude* the water vapor is found. The amount of water vapor at high > altitudes will increase at a horrific and generally unappreciated rate as > sea temperature rises. See: > > http://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/news/releases/2002/02_60AR.html > > which states: "Rabbette analyzed clear-sky data above the tropical > Pacific from March 2000 to July 2001. She determined that water vapor > above 5 kilometers (3 miles) altitude in the atmosphere contributes > significantly to the runaway greenhouse signature. She found that at 9 > kilometers (5.6 miles) above the Pacific warm pool, the relative humidity > in the atmosphere can be greater than 70 percent - more than three times > the normal range. In nearby regions of the Pacific where the sea surface > temperature is just a few degrees cooler, the atmospheric relative > humidity is only 20 percent. These drier regions of the neighboring > atmosphere may contribute to stabilizing the local runaway greenhouse > effect, Rabbette said." > > Additionally, methane is lighter than air. As far as I know, little has > been made of this fact. In the atmosphere, methane ultimately oxidizes > to form CO2 and water vapor. Methane released directly into the air can > thus be assumed to oxidize mostly at a high altitude. The coming arctic > methane release will have a significant effect in the upper atmosphere > due to methane's atmospheric life of 12 years. (For methane life see > Table G1 in > http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/1605/gg02rpt/pdf/appendixg.pdf). > > A high moisture content at low altitudes does increase infra-red > absorption, but also typically results in clouds which reflect light > above that altitude, thus increasing Earth's albedo, thus reducing the > energy which is absorbed by the dense lower atmosphere and by the > surface. Water at high altitude absorbs infra-red radiation before it > can be relected from the clouds, and absorbs infra-red radiation > reflected from both the clouds and from the surface of the earth, as well > as black body radiation from the surface and the lower atmosphere. > > >> >> >> This is what I wrote in "The Rebirth of Cold Fusion": >> >> >> The problem of global warming predominantly results from the combustion >> of fossil fuels. According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, >> "fossil fuels burned to run cars and trucks, heat homes and businesses, >> and power factories are responsible for about 98 percent of U.S. carbon >> dioxide emissions, 24 percent of methane emissions, and 18 percent of >> nitrous oxide emissions." These are the so-called "greenhouse gasses." >> >> Carbon dioxide is the greatest culprit. It is odorless and invisible; >> for the most part, it does its damage without our awareness. Carbon >> dioxide and other greenhouse gasses collect in the upper part of the >> Earth's atmosphere and remain trapped there. When solar radiation passes >> through the Earth's atmosphere, most of this radiation is absorbed by >> the earth's surface. However, some of the solar radiation is reflected >> back to the atmosphere. Ordinarily, part of this radiation would >> continue onward to outer space, and part would be reflected back to >> earth. >> >> However, as a blanket of greenhouse gasses accumulates in the upper >> atmosphere, it absorbs the wavelengths of reflected radiation and >> converts it into thermal energy. The gasses remains trapped, upsetting >> the delicate energy balance as the Earth makes its yearly journey around >> the sun, and contributing to an increase in global temperature >> worldwide. > > > The above description is not accurate. It ignores the critical > wavelength shift to the red that occurs on the earth's surface and in the > atmosphere. Much radiant energy critical to the greenhouse effect is > initially high frequency and passes readily through the atmosphere and > results in warming of either molecules in the atmosphere or on the > surface. These warmed molecules emit black body radiation in the > infra-red band. The greenhouse effect is due to the ability of > greenhouse gasses to absorb incoming infra-red while passing high > bandwidth (visible and UV) energy and then to block the returning > infra-red that occurs due to the black body radiation increase caused by > warming due to light absorption. H2O and CO2 absorb this black body > radiation that would otherwise radiate out to space. Black-body > radiation making it to space results in a lower Earth temperature. If > black-body radiation is increasingly absorbed, on the way back to space, > by increased concentrations of H2O, then the atmosphere warms up. > Thermal equilibrium can only be reached by returning to space the same > amount of radiation power as absorbed from the sun, even though that > radiation is returned at a much lower frequency. If the total radiated > power is less that that incoming from the sun then Earth's temperature > will continue to rise until the equilibrium point is reached. > > Horace Heffner > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 02:50:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22Ao22K005803; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 02:50:07 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k22AkhFv004229; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 02:46:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 02:46:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060302104007645.9D81B7400082@mwinf3208.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060302104009.0097f710@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:40:09 +0000 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Negative Energy Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66703 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: was "Gravity, A Function of Mass/Energy-Charge/Magnetism" Tensile strain is one manifestation of negative energy. Another illustration is provided by the Stirling Engine. Most laymen familiar with engines such as the steam and internal combustion variety imagine that heat is needed to power an engine and would laugh at the idea of running an engine using blocks of ice for fuel. Yet with a Stirling engine one can do just that. Store enough ice in the old fashioned type of ice house during winter and one could run a Stirling Engine all summer. I am not suggesting this as a practical proposition but merely as an interesting example of negative energy, an analogy of tensile strain. Compressive strain is equivalent to heat. Tensile strain is equivalent to cold. Both heat and cold are sources of energy. Both heat and cold are deviations from ambient. It is the deviation that is important, not its sign. Another example, of course, is the earliest "steam" engine where negative, not positive, pressure was the internal agent of mechanical action. Frank Grimer From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 04:36:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22CaVux030384; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 04:36:31 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k22CaTrY030358; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 04:36:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 04:36:29 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060302123624776.BD9521C00086@mwinf3203.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060302123626.009cbc98@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 12:36:26 +0000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Sprain Mag Motor Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k22CaQso030326 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66704 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I found the following KeelyNet reference to Sprain's motor. You will notice that he is referred to as Paul Harry Sprain, not Harry Paul Sprain as in the Wiki article and the patent. Sprain seems to be a remarkably uncommon name. It is probably a corruption of Strain. 8-) http://www.freshpatents.com/Apparatus-and-process-for- generating-energy-dt20060209ptan20060028080.php ============================================ 02/28/06 - Overunity magnet motor claim This is the first OVERUNITY magnet motor released to the public! It produces more mechanical power than needed electrical input power for the electromagnet. It is the video from Mr. Paul Harry Sprain. I had signed NDA for it and now he has released it to the world! It is simular to the Takahaski design and Mr. Sprain has got a patent for it. The electromagnet at the end of the spiral stator switches for just a few Mikroseconds the field to zero flux density, so the rotor can escape the stator fields. For the rest of the rotation circle the rotor is purely accelerated into the track. All magnets are in attraction mode, stator and rotor magnets ! This is so far the best magnet motor shown. Mr. Sprain wrote: I have been working on this project for 4 years. I have spent a little under a million dollars. I have a patent and a working prototype (see attached photos). The rotational force is measured using a torque sensor that allows me to put it under load just like a real generator. I have measured the energy going into the electromagnet voltage and current. It comes from a digital power supply so there is no guessing as to what is being used. I'm using a super perm alloy core for the electromagnet. A digital encoder controls the firing of the electromagnet. My results: out-.6 Nm at 10 radian/sec =6W in-19.8v @ 1.9A = 37.62W each pulse is .028ms = 1.05 W per pulse 3 pulses per/sec = 3.1W total input. Please see patent 6,954,019. Some additional info about this remarkable claim. For more details on the Takahashi magnetic spiral motor. ============================================ There is also a photo and diagram accompanying the above text at: http://www.keelynet.com/ Frank From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 04:52:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22Cq97a005512; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 04:52:10 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k22Cq7Lv005477; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 04:52:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 04:52:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <4406EA6F.9000701@fuse.net> Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 07:51:59 -0500 From: "Michael Wood, Cincinnati" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.8) Gecko/20050511 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vortex List Subject: National Geographic Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66705 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: There was a fairly interesting general review of "Mega" lightning on the National Geographic channel last night. Very few specifics, lots of generalities. The one thing I did glean is that there is a lot of power being produced in the atmosphere. Is anyone doing any work on harnessing lightning these days? It seems like we live in the middle of a giant generator, when you think of it. I've always looked at natural geological activity as a possible source for alternative energy, but the program has me musing on natural aerial activity as a source of energy. Mike Wood, Cincinnati From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 06:00:43 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22E0DSA008185; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 06:00:13 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k22E0BN5008167; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 06:00:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 06:00:11 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060302140002465.71B4BB80008D@mwinf3211.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060302140003.0097dc1c@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 14:00:03 +0000 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Sprain Mag Motor Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k22E04dx008094 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66706 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: It would appear that the Achilles heel of magnetic motors in general is that they are using up energy stored in the magnets in the form of negative entropy - in other words in the parallel orientation of the basic units of magnetism, whatever these may be. For people who have a naturally pessimistic outlook on life this is an attractive argument. It allows magnetic motors to be dismissed together with perpetual motion machines and cold fusion, etc. Since the majority of attempts to make a magnetic engine seem to have run into the sand such pessimists can assert that history is on their side. It is claimed that the Sprain Magnetic Motor, " ... is very similar to the Takahashi motor, but in Paul Sprain´s motor he is just using all magnets in attraction mode, so they never discharge." I believe that I can see a reasonable argument to support this claim based on the existence of negative energy (see "Negative Energy" thread). Consider the mode of operation of The Newcomen Steam Engine. http://www.technology.niagarac.on.ca/staff/mcsele/newcomen.htm A laymen might describe it as a vacuum engine and think that the vacuum pulls the piston down into the cylinder. Anyone with an elementary knowledge of physics, however, would realise that the piston is pushed down by atmospheric pressure. Though the Newcomen and the Watt engine both use steam, their modes of operation are antithetical. Now the active agent in the Newcomen Engine is the pressure of the atmosphere and this pressure is constantly being replenished. It is inexhaustible. By contrast, the active agent in the Watt engine is the pressure of steam and this pressure is not inexhaustible. With reference to the "Negative Energy" thread one can see that the Newcomen "steam" engine is a negative energy engine analogous to a Stirling Engine driven by an ice cube whereas the Watt steam engine is a positive energy engine analogous to a Stirling Engine driven by a cup of hot coffee. The attraction between magnets in the Sprain Magnetic Motor (SMM) can be viewed as Bernoulli style low pressure region in the Beta-atmosphere. Clearly then, the SMM is analogous to the Newcomen Engine and the Beta-atmosphere analogous to the Alpha-atmosphere and equally inexhaustible. Since the microscopic units of each SMM magnet are being subjected to tension it seems more likely that the negative entropy of those magnets (internal order) will increase rather than decrease. It seems therefor that the claim that this is indeed the case can be justified on logical grounds. Whether this "too good to be true" motor is in fact raising high order atmospheric motion (Beta-.Gamma-) up to the electro mechanical level or not, remains to be seen. However, it can (and will) be shown by argument at a higher scale of aethereal atmosphere that such a system is no more a perpetual motion machine than, say, a photo- voltaic cell. Cheers, Frank Grimer From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 06:02:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22E1YH1009143; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 06:01:35 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k22E1Tp6009098; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 06:01:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 06:01:29 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <20060302013638.l7i2yp08e8ssgosg@webmail.usfamily.net> References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060301114255.02966e60@mail.newenergytimes.com> <001a01c63d84$9bece990$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <20060302013638.l7i2yp08e8ssgosg@webmail.usfamily.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: global warming: spin or not spin? Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 05:01:14 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66707 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The importance of infra-red to the greenhouse effect can be seen in the following table. Percent solar constant at aircraft altitude: Lambda (nm) Cum % % Range 0 - 10 *** less than 0.00044 percent*** 10 - 400 8.725 8.725 UV 400 - 700 46.879 38.154 Visible 700 - 100000 99.999 53.120 IR 100000 - 1000000 *** less than .000998 percent *** Derived from page 14-10 of the 74th Edition of The CRC Handbook. Most of the incoming power is in already the form of infra-red. Most of the remaining incoming power is in the visible range. The downshifting of the visible range to infra-red is key to the greenhouse effect. When molecules or atoms absorb radiation, they sometimes simply re- emit the radiation at the same frequency, though not necessarily in the same direction. However, excited atoms and molecules can also re- emit the radiation in steps. This results in a down-shifting of the absorbed and then re-emitted energy. In many such cases net momentum is absorbed by the molecule in the interaction, and the light re- emitted is further down-shifted. The resulting molecular momentum change means a velocity change which on balance results in a temperature increment. Hot material emits radiation in proportion to the 4th power of its temperature. As the Earth heats up a highly non-linear relationship between infra-red radiation comes into play. As ice and snow is reduced, more of the Earth's cooling is dependent upon infra-red making it back to space. Less visible light is reflected to space as ice disappears. H2O and CO2 thus play a highly non-linear role in retarding the process of compensating for the loss of albedo due to polar melting. As polar ice disappears, albedo is lost, more water is available to the polar atmosphere, as is more methane. This results in a feedback effect which is even more powerful than a 4th power law. To some degree, compensation occurs due to cloud formation, which reflects visible light. However, high altitude water vapor concectration, that water vapor which is above any clouds that form, has a highly non-linear relationship with temperature. As temperature above the clouds increases, the ability of water vapor to exist there, without forming ice, increases dramatically. All this non-linearity ultimately means many people are in for some severe surprises. Some parts of the atmosphere are already in a runaway regime. The rapidity with which the other parts can enter that regime will doubtless be a surprise even to many scientists. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 07:06:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22F5rNq019732; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 07:05:53 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k22F5pcY019704; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 07:05:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 07:05:51 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00fd01c63e0a$c534ba40$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <2.2.32.20060302123626.009cbc98@pop.freeserve.net> Subject: Re: Sprain Mag Motor Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:05:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0609-1, 01/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66708 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: It's even better than the inventor thinks: .028ms * 37.62W = 1.05mJ per pulse, 3 pulses per sec = 3.1mW input, quite reasonable for 6W output ;) Just kidding, obviously he meant, per pulse, 0.28s instead of 0.28ms and 1.05J instead of 1.05 W. More annoying is the inconsistency of the 10 radian/sec figure (about 1.6 turn/sec) with the 3 pulses/sec: there is supposed to be 1 pulse per turn so it should be 1.6 pulse/sec. I hope he has been more rigorous than that in computing his energy balance but I wouldn't bet a million dollars on it, I'd rather bet them on cold fusion if I had them, how funny that the boring reasonable guys on this list are the pro-CF people ;) Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grimer" To: Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 1:36 PM Subject: Re: Sprain Mag Motor >I found the following KeelyNet reference to Sprain's motor. > You will notice that he is referred to as Paul Harry Sprain, > not Harry Paul Sprain as in the Wiki article and the patent. > > Sprain seems to be a remarkably uncommon name. It is probably > a corruption of Strain. 8-) > > http://www.freshpatents.com/Apparatus-and-process-for- > generating-energy-dt20060209ptan20060028080.php > > > ============================================ > 02/28/06 - Overunity magnet motor claim > > This is the first OVERUNITY magnet motor released to the public! It > produces more mechanical power than needed electrical input power for the > electromagnet. It is the video from Mr. Paul Harry Sprain. I had signed > NDA for it and now he has released it to the world! It is simular to the > Takahaski design and Mr. Sprain has got a patent for it. The electromagnet > at the end of the spiral stator switches for just a few Mikroseconds the > field to zero flux density, so the rotor can escape the stator fields. For > the rest of the rotation circle the rotor is purely accelerated into the > track. All magnets are in attraction mode, stator and rotor magnets ! This > is so far the best magnet motor shown. Mr. Sprain wrote: I have been > working on this project for 4 years. I have spent a little under a million > dollars. I have a patent and a working prototype (see attached photos). > The rotational force is measured using a torque sensor that allows me to > put it under load just like a real generat! > or. I have measured the energy going into the electromagnet voltage and > current. It comes from a digital power supply so there is no guessing as > to what is being used. I'm using a super perm alloy core for the > electromagnet. A digital encoder controls the firing of the electromagnet. > My results: out-.6 Nm at 10 radian/sec =6W in-19.8v @ 1.9A = 37.62W each > pulse is .028ms = 1.05 W per pulse 3 pulses per/sec = 3.1W total input. > Please see patent 6,954,019. Some additional info about this remarkable > claim. For more details on the Takahashi magnetic spiral motor. > ============================================ > > > There is also a photo and diagram accompanying the > above text at: > http://www.keelynet.com/ > > Frank > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 07:16:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22FFav4025633; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 07:15:38 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k22FFY6c025594; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 07:15:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 07:15:34 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00ff01c63e0c$204377e0$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: Subject: Re: Positive coverage of CF, "Living on Earth," Nat. Public Radio Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:15:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0609-1, 01/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66709 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks Bill for the link, fairly positive indeed. Robert Park must be feeling that the wind is turning, "I guess I am still skeptical" lacks vehemence somehow :) Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Beaty" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 10:00 PM Subject: Positive coverage of CF, "Living on Earth," Nat. Public Radio > > > On monday I just heard some fairly positive coverage of LENR on public > radio. Interviews were with researchers rather than with skeptics... and > Robert Park gives a few sentences *without* saying anything derogatory. > Amazing! > > See: > NPR segment: Living on Earth > http://www.loe.org/ > > > Transcript and Realaudio link: > > Cold Fusion, a heated history > http://tinyurl.com/l9zfh > > > (((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb at amasci com http://amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair > Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 07:40:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22Fe80L008407; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 07:40:26 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k22FXhLD003918; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 07:33:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 07:33:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:33:35 -0500 Message-Id: <8C80C25CE0F3896-1048-EE0@mblkn-m04.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <4406EA6F.9000701@fuse.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <4406EA6F.9000701@fuse.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: National Geographic Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.68 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k22FXe9A003881 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66710 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yes, one inventor believes he can harness lightning and use it to dissociate water. Unfortunately, the average power from lightning is quite low over time. I'll see if I can dig up the reference. Terry -----Original Message----- From: Michael Wood, Cincinnati To: Vortex List Sent: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 07:51:59 -0500 Subject: National Geographic There was a fairly interesting general review of "Mega" lightning on the National Geographic channel last night. Very few specifics, lots of generalities. The one thing I did glean is that there is a lot of power being produced in the atmosphere.  Is anyone doing any work on harnessing lightning these days? It seems like we live in the middle of a giant generator, when you think of it. I've always looked at natural geological activity as a possible source for alternative energy, but the program has me musing on natural aerial activity as a source of energy.  Mike Wood, Cincinnati    ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 07:55:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22Ft2W4016935; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 07:55:02 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k22FswC6016871; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 07:54:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 07:54:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:54:50 -0500 Message-Id: <8C80C28C637E1A7-1048-FD3@mblkn-m04.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <2.2.32.20060302123626.009cbc98@pop.freeserve.net> <00fd01c63e0a$c534ba40$3800a8c0@zothan> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <00fd01c63e0a$c534ba40$3800a8c0@zothan> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Sprain Mag Motor Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.68 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k22Fst3S016830 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66711 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Michel Jullian To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:05:37 +0100 Subject: Re: Sprain Mag Motor It's even better than the inventor thinks:    .028ms * 37.62W = 1.05mJ per pulse, 3 pulses per sec = 3.1mW input, quite reasonable for 6W output ;) Just kidding, obviously he meant, per pulse, 0.28s instead of 0.28ms and 1.05J instead of 1.05 W.  <><><><><><><> Paul is often a little sloppy with his terminology. He forgets to use the proper units. The pulse duration is not .028 ms, it's .028 s. For those remaining sceptics, I have finished reviewing additional data (subject to my NDA) and I would stake my reputation (FWIW ) that there is no measurement error. EMILIE *has* a COP >1. Terry Blanton, BEE, PE ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 07:59:19 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22FwtJC018641; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 07:58:55 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k22FwkNe018571; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 07:58:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 07:58:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <002d01c63e12$2f97f8a0$1714fea9@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Subject: Surprise, surprise Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 07:58:44 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66712 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Toshiba going nuclear ! http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v440/n7080/full/440023a.html Summary (of article by Kurt Kleiner) A Japanese consumer products giant is betting BIG on nuclear power ... Toshiba agreed last month to pay $5.4 billion - a high premium for Westinghouse Electric. In 1999, a British company had paid only a billion+ for the Pittsburg company - which has seen better days in this division. In comparison, Google was supposedly worth 25 times as much as recently as a month ago. The stock market is obviously little more than a bunch of lesser fools trading with a bunch of greater fools. ....the Japanese manufacturer is placing a hefty bet (much of its net worth) that nuclear power is on the verge of a global comeback - at least in China and the rest of Asia. Westinghouse's AP1000 pressurized water reactor is somewhat of a world standard. Some analysts questioned whether the Japanese electronics giant needs the hassle of controlling the world's largest supplier of nuclear power stations. Westinghouse designed about half of the world's 400-odd commercially operating nuclear reactors - many built by others and none by the company itself in recent memory. In effect, Westinghouse's assets are mostly intellectual (just like Google). Toshiba, whose assets are mostly physical, is particularly confident that it can win contracts from China, which is planning to place man more orders soon with its large cache of American bucks (and ample credit from Japanese Banks). China needs nearly 35 new nuclear plants by 2020 (average 1000 MW capacity), at a total cost of about $50 billion. That is a cost of about $1.5 billion each for the 1000 megawatt plant - demonstrating once again how artificially high the often quoted price in the USA for these is - usually one hears $5 billion per plant for what can be bought internationally for less than a third of that. We love our red tape and add-on fees. Canada has recently supplied four CANDU reactors to China, and plans to get about half of those 35 new orders, even though its plants cost slightly more initially. Since they burn natural uranium, however, they cost only about 5% for refueling - compared to the Westinghouse plant. Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 08:41:33 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22GUJ0f003652; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:32:13 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k22GS4RG001439; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:28:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:28:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 11:07:12 -0500 Message-Id: <8C80C2A805D5013-1048-1049@mblkn-m04.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <2.2.32.20060302123626.009cbc98@pop.freeserve.net> <00fd01c63e0a$c534ba40$3800a8c0@zothan> <8C80C28C637E1A7-1048-FD3@mblkn-m04.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <8C80C28C637E1A7-1048-FD3@mblkn-m04.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Sprain Mag Motor Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.68 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k22GRvvY001318 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66714 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: hohlrauml6d   Paul is often a little sloppy with his terminology. He forgets to use the proper units. The pulse duration is not .028 ms, it's .028 s. <><><><><><><> Damn, I didn't finish the post. Why does the brain degrade so quickly after reaching 50? I meant to add that Paul meant 1.05 Watt-seconds, a measure of energy equal to 1.05 Joule. It is usually considered polite to capitalize the units which represent a name. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 08:43:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22GUJ0h003652; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:32:23 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k22GGqiQ027345; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:16:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:16:52 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 11:16:37 -0500 Message-Id: <8C80C2BD0EB5D59-1048-10AA@mblkn-m04.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060301114255.02966e60@mail.newenergytimes.com> <001a01c63d84$9bece990$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <6.2.0.14.2.20060301164558.02ad3d78@mail.newenergytimes.com> <000e01c63da0$7e5eedd0$c9037841@xptower> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <000e01c63da0$7e5eedd0$c9037841@xptower> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: global warming: spin or not spin? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.68 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k22GGl5U027307 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66713 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: RC Macaulay Do I believe these greenhouse gasses are warming the planet.. perhaps CO2 is causing some.. but.. there is so much shrill and so much money made off shrill, the facts are skewed. NASA has some good readings but who can believe anything coming out of NASA anymore.  A volcano the size of the 1803 Borneo bomb would help put some suspicions to rest. Of course, it would freeze the yankees and Europe.  <><><><><><><><> All the planets are warming: http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/mars_ice-age_031208.html Something is wrong with the sun. Yellowstone supervolcanoe is due to blow any time; so, don't worry, be happy. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 09:37:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22Hb3X8013183; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:37:03 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k22Hb2if013171; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:37:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:37:02 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <000e01c63e1f$e55355b0$5f037841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: References: <002d01c63e12$2f97f8a0$1714fea9@NuDell> Subject: Re: Surprise, surprise Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:36:52 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2005-06-05) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.8 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66715 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Howdy Jones, I love it! Westinghouse selling to Tochiba." T "is buying a pig in the poke. There's nothing left of Westinghouse Nuclear except some very bad memories. All their top people began leaving in the 1970's. They once were the premier electrical bunch, knee deep in technology and spent bucks hiring and training the best EE's. Alas! The senior management team was replaced by wall street, they got into supplying uranium, lost their focus and started playing Wall Street... so much for mixing business with stock certificates. Tochiba would do better starting from scratch. It would be like trying to privatizing NASA using the present staff. Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 9:58 AM Subject: Surprise, surprise > Toshiba going nuclear ! > > http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v440/n7080/full/440023a.html > > Summary (of article by Kurt Kleiner) > > A Japanese consumer products giant is betting BIG on nuclear power ... > > Toshiba agreed last month to pay $5.4 billion - a high premium for > Westinghouse Electric. In 1999, a British company had paid only a billion+ > for the Pittsburg company - which has seen better days in this division. > In comparison, Google was supposedly worth 25 times as much as recently as > a month ago. The stock market is obviously little more than a bunch of > lesser fools trading with a bunch of greater fools. > > ....the Japanese manufacturer is placing a hefty bet (much of its net > worth) that nuclear power is on the verge of a global comeback - at least > in China and the rest of Asia. > > Westinghouse's AP1000 pressurized water reactor is somewhat of a world > standard. Some analysts questioned whether the Japanese electronics giant > needs the hassle of controlling the world's largest supplier of nuclear > power stations. Westinghouse designed about half of the world's 400-odd > commercially operating nuclear reactors - many built by others and none by > the company itself in recent memory. In effect, Westinghouse's assets are > mostly intellectual (just like Google). > > Toshiba, whose assets are mostly physical, is particularly confident that > it can win contracts from China, which is planning to place man more > orders soon with its large cache of American bucks (and ample credit from > Japanese Banks). China needs nearly 35 new nuclear plants by 2020 (average > 1000 MW capacity), at a total cost of about $50 billion. > > That is a cost of about $1.5 billion each for the 1000 megawatt plant - > demonstrating once again how artificially high the often quoted price in > the USA for these is - usually one hears $5 billion per plant for what can > be bought internationally for less than a third of that. We love our red > tape and add-on fees. > > Canada has recently supplied four CANDU reactors to China, and plans to > get about half of those 35 new orders, even though its plants cost > slightly more initially. Since they burn natural uranium, however, they > cost only about 5% for refueling - compared to the Westinghouse plant. > > Jones > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 10:04:08 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22I3aXb028788; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:03:36 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k22I3Y8Z028764; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:03:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:03:34 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 13:03:27 -0500 Message-Id: <8C80C3ABDD2061F-1BF4-76F0@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <002d01c63e12$2f97f8a0$1714fea9@NuDell> <000e01c63e1f$e55355b0$5f037841@xptower> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <000e01c63e1f$e55355b0$5f037841@xptower> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Surprise, surprise Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.69 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66716 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: RC Macaulay It would be like trying to privatizing NASA using the present staff. <><><><><><><> Speaking of, I'm told, due to: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/exploration/spacecraft/index.html and an "early out" retirement program, Marshall SFC has 400 openings. Know any real rocket scientists who want a job? Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 12:04:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22K3wgt003548; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:03:59 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k22K3pg7003486; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:03:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:03:51 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <8C80C2BD0EB5D59-1048-10AA@mblkn-m04.sysops.aol.com> References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060301114255.02966e60@mail.newenergytimes.com> <001a01c63d84$9bece990$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <6.2.0.14.2.20060301164558.02ad3d78@mail.newenergytimes.com> <000e01c63da0$7e5eedd0$c9037841@xptower> <8C80C2BD0EB5D59-1048-10AA@mblkn-m04.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <1C80E0DD-6081-4FD3-98CF-5C2DE960B257@mtaonline.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: global warming: spin or not spin? Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:03:28 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66717 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mar 2, 2006, at 7:16 AM, hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote: > All the planets are warming: > > http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/mars_ice-age_031208.html "A model that fits the data has three layers near the surface," said William Boynton of the University of Arizona, Tucson, team leader for the gamma-ray spectrometer instrument on Odyssey. "The very top layer would be dry, with no ice. The next layer would contain ice in the pore spaces between grains of soil. Beneath that would be a very ice- rich layer, 60 to nearly 100 percent water ice." Boynton almost has it right. The top layer is mostly crustal lichen, which seals gaps and prevents the water from leaving the soil. 8^) Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 12:05:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22K4lEF004067; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:04:48 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k22K4heo004012; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:04:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:04:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=R6hqYwJT6lC+abKhZN2O12YNHG2feobxZEpVufVxS0BYiTFD1zJpFtQWH3Ndr2Rn; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200634219515216@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re Spent Fuel Rods, Nuke Waste & Electronium. Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:51:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9401ea8913dfd73459bff80a7a82db8c6c4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66718 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII A good place to look for the (*e-) particle at levels above natural production background. The Coolant water too. Did this water get into streams in Russia before Potapov's Yusmar started producing OU Heat? The "Secret Ingredient" that Scott Little couldn't come up with? I need to get on the good side of Homer Simpson. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
A good place to look for the (*e-) particle at levels above natural production background.
The Coolant water too.
Did this water get into streams in Russia before Potapov's Yusmar  started producing OU Heat?
 
The "Secret Ingredient" that Scott Little couldn't come up with?
 
I need to get on the good side of Homer Simpson.
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 12:13:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22KDJxl009535; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:13:19 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k22KDFoo009508; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:13:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:13:15 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <20060302013638.l7i2yp08e8ssgosg@webmail.usfamily.net> References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060301114255.02966e60@mail.newenergytimes.com> <001a01c63d84$9bece990$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <20060302013638.l7i2yp08e8ssgosg@webmail.usfamily.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <2131F572-6F18-4BF8-B719-DF5155E361A4@mtaonline.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: global warming: spin or not spin? Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 05:10:38 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66719 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Some typos corrected below. The importance of infra-red to the greenhouse effect can be seen in the following table. Percent solar constant at aircraft altitude: Lambda (nm) Cum % % Range 0 - 10 *** less than 0.00044 percent*** 10 - 400 8.725 8.725 UV 400 - 700 46.879 38.154 Visible 700 - 100000 99.999 53.120 IR 100000 - 1000000 *** less than .000998 percent *** Derived from page 14-10 of the 74th Edition of The CRC Handbook. Most of the incoming power is in already the form of infra-red. Most of the remaining incoming power is in the visible range. The downshifting of the visible range to infra-red is key to the greenhouse effect. When molecules or atoms absorb radiation, they sometimes simply re- emit the radiation at the same frequency, though not necessarily in the same direction. However, excited atoms and molecules can also re- emit the radiation in steps. This results in a down-shifting of the absorbed and then re-emitted energy. In many such cases net momentum is absorbed by the molecule in the interaction, and the light re- emitted is further down-shifted. The resulting molecular momentum change means a velocity change which on balance results in a temperature increment. As the Earth heats up a highly non-linear relationship between infra- red radiation and atmospheric absorption comes into play. Hot material emits radiation in proportion to the 4th power of its temperature. As ice and snow is reduced, less visible light is reflected to space as the ice disappears. More of the Earth's cooling is dependent upon infra-red making it back to space. H2O and CO2 thus play a highly non-linear role in retarding the process of compensating for the loss of albedo due to polar melting. As polar ice disappears, albedo is lost, more water is available to the polar atmosphere, as is more methane. This results in a feedback effect which is even more powerful than a 4th power law. To some degree, compensation occurs due to cloud formation, which reflects visible light. However, high altitude water vapor concectration, that water vapor which is above any clouds that form, has a highly non-linear relationship with temperature. As temperature above the clouds increases above the freezing threshold, the ability of water vapor to exist there, without forming ice, increases dramatically. All this non-linearity ultimately means many people are in for some severe surprises. Some parts of the atmosphere are already in a runaway regime. The rapidity with which the other parts can enter that regime will no doubt be a surprise even to many scientists. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 12:17:02 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22KGiMs011792; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:16:45 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k22KGhe9011780; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:16:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:16:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f In-Reply-To: <002d01c63e12$2f97f8a0$1714fea9@NuDell> References: <002d01c63e12$2f97f8a0$1714fea9@NuDell> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <433B0633-8112-4D6C-BC7D-1C9A200118F8@mtaonline.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Surprise, surprise Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:16:31 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: <5OQ-LB.A.A4C.rK1BEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66720 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mar 2, 2006, at 6:58 AM, Jones Beene wrote: > Toshiba going nuclear ! > > http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v440/n7080/full/440023a.html > > Summary (of article by Kurt Kleiner) > > A Japanese consumer products giant is betting BIG on nuclear power ... > > Toshiba agreed last month to pay $5.4 billion - a high premium for > Westinghouse Electric. In 1999, a British company had paid only a > billion+ for the Pittsburg company - which has seen better days in > this division. In comparison, Google was supposedly worth 25 times > as much as recently as a month ago. The stock market is obviously > little more than a bunch of lesser fools trading with a bunch of > greater fools. > > ....the Japanese manufacturer is placing a hefty bet (much of its > net worth) that nuclear power is on the verge of a global comeback > - at least in China and the rest of Asia. India may be their biggest customer. China will only be a customer long enough to internalise the technology. What is going to happen to GE if Toshiba realizes it made a bad deal? They can probably sell it to Iran. We have to be out of our minds to permit the foreign sale of defense critical companies like GE. And I thought *I* was a lunatic. I wonder if they got all the renewable energy stuff GE was working on as well? In the long run that could be much more valuable. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 12:33:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22KXHGp021065; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:33:18 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k22KXEDc021036; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:33:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:33:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <8C80C2A805D5013-1048-1049@mblkn-m04.sysops.aol.com> References: <2.2.32.20060302123626.009cbc98@pop.freeserve.net> <00fd01c63e0a$c534ba40$3800a8c0@zothan> <8C80C28C637E1A7-1048-FD3@mblkn-m04.sysops.aol.com> <8C80C2A805D5013-1048-1049@mblkn-m04.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <547C8F7C-D581-41CE-A0AE-5B0EFEC176CE@mtaonline.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Sprain Mag Motor Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:32:53 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: <-ghbJD.A.dIF.Ia1BEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66721 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mar 2, 2006, at 7:07 AM, hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > From: hohlrauml6d > > Paul is often a little sloppy with his terminology. He forgets to > use the proper units. The pulse duration is not .028 ms, it's .028 s. > > <><><><><><><> > > Damn, I didn't finish the post. Why does the brain degrade so > quickly after reaching 50? > > I meant to add that Paul meant 1.05 Watt-seconds, a measure of > energy equal to 1.05 Joule. It is usually considered polite to > capitalize the units which represent a name. Surprisingly to many, this is not so. When a scientist's name reaches the exalted state of being used as a unit, then when spelled out in that usage it is no longer capitalized. This non- capitalization rule is in itself an honor, designating the use of an international standard. However, the name is still capitalized in the abbreviation. Consider the following SI units and their abbreviations: hertz Hz newton N Pascal Pa joule J watt W coulomb C volt V ohm (capital omega) siemens S farad F tesla T weber Wb henry H becquerel Bq gray Gy sievert Sv and some ordinary SI units: lumen lm lux lx radian rad steradian sr Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 12:48:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22KlvRB029406; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:47:57 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k22KllS1029288; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:47:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:47:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 15:47:43 -0500 Message-Id: <8C80C51B0469F1D-1BF4-7D17@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <2.2.32.20060302123626.009cbc98@pop.freeserve.net> <00fd01c63e0a$c534ba40$3800a8c0@zothan> <8C80C28C637E1A7-1048-FD3@mblkn-m04.sysops.aol.com> <8C80C2A805D5013-1048-1049@mblkn-m04.sysops.aol.com> <547C8F7C-D581-41CE-A0AE-5B0EFEC176CE@mtaonline.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <547C8F7C-D581-41CE-A0AE-5B0EFEC176CE@mtaonline.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Sprain Mag Motor Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.69 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66722 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Horace Heffner Surprisingly to many, this is not so. When a scientist's name reaches the exalted state of being used as a unit, then when spelled out in that usage it is no longer capitalized. This non-capitalization rule is in itself an honor, designating the use of an international standard. However, the name is still capitalized in the abbreviation. <><><><><><><> You are right as usual. I actually did spell them out didn't I? Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 13:09:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k22L9GBS008140; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 13:09:16 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k22L934d008004; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 13:09:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 13:09:03 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: ThomasClark123@aol.com Message-ID: <293.692cf53.3138b7bb@aol.com> Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:03:55 EST Subject: Toyota Plant: BioPlastic made from sugar cane to replace oil based plastics To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1141333435" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: YES Resent-Message-ID: <9e6sxC.A.98B.u71BEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66723 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1141333435 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/news/03/0724.html Toyota to Build Pilot Bio-plastic Plant Sugar Cane Based -------------------------------1141333435 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/news/03/0724= .html  Toyota to Build Pilot Bio-plastic Plant  Sugar Cane Bas= ed -------------------------------1141333435-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 16:08:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2308G0S009691; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:08:16 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2308DYF009674; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:08:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:08:13 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060303000756836.146558000086@mwinf3214.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060303000757.009efca4@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 00:07:57 +0000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Sprain Mag Motor Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66724 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:32 am 02/03/2006 -0900, you wrote: > >On Mar 2, 2006, at 7:07 AM, hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote: > >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: hohlrauml6d >> >> Paul is often a little sloppy with his terminology. He forgets to >> use the proper units. The pulse duration is not .028 ms, it's .028 s. >> >> <><><><><><><> >> >> Damn, I didn't finish the post. Why does the brain degrade so >> quickly after reaching 50? >> >> I meant to add that Paul meant 1.05 Watt-seconds, a measure of >> energy equal to 1.05 Joule. It is usually considered polite to >> capitalize the units which represent a name. > >Surprisingly to many, this is not so. When a scientist's name >reaches the exalted state of being used as a unit, then when spelled >out in that usage it is no longer capitalized. This non- >capitalization rule is in itself an honor, designating the use of an >international standard. However, the name is still capitalized in the >abbreviation. Consider the following SI units and their abbreviations: > >hertz Hz >newton N >Pascal Pa >joule J >watt W >coulomb C >volt V >ohm (capital omega) >siemens S >farad F >tesla T >weber Wb >henry H >becquerel Bq >gray Gy >sievert Sv > >and some ordinary SI units: > >lumen lm >lux lx >radian rad >steradian sr > >Horace Heffner Personally, I find this canonization of scientists bloody annoying. As a protest I always write Centigrade instead of Celsius. At least with a unit like a lumen or lux, you know it has something to do with light - and a radian relates to a radius - but names like gray and sievert convey absolutely nothing to me. At least you yanks have stuck to the imperial system of weights and measures for common usage and not adopted the froggy metric - yet. ;-) Frank (even my spell checker didn't recognise sievert) From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 16:23:34 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k230NG09017299; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:23:17 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k230NE5k017268; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:23:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:23:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: ThomasClark123@aol.com Message-ID: <12a.6f6abb5b.3138e66e@aol.com> Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 19:23:10 EST Subject: Re: Cold Fusion, The New Rome, and The Saint To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1141345390" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: YES Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66725 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1141345390 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the references to cold fusion and the Greek myths. It has been found that the process of cold fusion is no longer needed, since the energies obtained from cold fusion, can also be obtained from magnetic technologies (H.R. Johnson patent No. 4,151,431 on April 24, 1979 permanent magnetic motor) that are already patented but cannot be massed produced for political reasons, and atomic hydrogen torches similar to Prometheus's fire, which are already being used in car engines in Japan, do not need a metal element such as Palladium to exit the free energy process. The Russians are the leaders in free energy technologies presently, and have already developed a free energy crystal far superior to cold fusion. The Saint movie simply predicted symbolically that free energy technologies will be available in the future as will Fairy tale like free spiritual polytheistic avenues, to defeat the oil well powers of the Roman Empire and the repressive monotheism of the Catholic Church. -------------------------------1141345390 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the references to cold fusion and the Greek myths.  It ha= s been found that the process of cold fusion is no longer needed, since the=20= energies obtained from cold fusion, can also be obtained from magnetic techn= ologies (H.R. Johnson patent No. 4,151,431 on April 24, 1979 permanent magne= tic motor) that are already patented but cannot be massed produced for=20= political reasons, and atomic hydrogen torches similar to Prometheus's fire,= which are already being used in car engines in Japan, do not need a me= tal element such as Palladium to exit the free energy process.  The Rus= sians are the leaders in free energy technologies presently, and have alread= y developed a free energy crystal far superior to cold fusion.  Th= e Saint movie simply predicted symbolically that free energy techn= ologies will be available in the future as will Fairy tale like free spiritu= al polytheistic avenues, to defeat the oil well powers of the Roman Empire a= nd the repressive monotheism of the Catholic Church. -------------------------------1141345390-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 17:32:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k231VgF8022102; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 17:31:42 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k231VdMn022052; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 17:31:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 17:31:39 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 20:31:32 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C80C79565D48E0-D48-8BE1@mblkn-m08.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Magnetic Force Calculator Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.72 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66726 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This site: http://www.magnetsales.com/Design/Calc_filles/PullAndPushBetween2RectMagn ets.asp http://tinyurl.com/eu6p5 Has a neat force calculator. It shows an interesting relationship if you pick a geometry and vary the size: .5 x.5 x.25 in => 9.1 lb in attraction, 5.4 lb in repulsion for a Neo 45 separated by .1 inch. Doubling each time: 1x1x.5 => 57 lb A, 34 lb R 2x2x1 => 277 lb A, 165 lb R 4x4x2 => 1211 lb A, 733 lb R 8x8x4 => 5055 lb A, 3018 lb R without changing the separation distance. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 17:40:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k231eDN9027322; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 17:40:14 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k231eADL027290; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 17:40:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 17:40:10 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <01a401c63e63$6356dfc0$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <2.2.32.20060303000757.009efca4@pop.freeserve.net> Subject: Re: Sprain Mag Motor Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 02:39:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0609-2, 02/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66727 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: And a good thing you're all coming to froggy metric too ;) Horace good point again, but why shouldn't Pascal deserve the honor of de-capitalization like everybody else? As a fellow froggy, I resent this discrimination ;) Since we are discussing conventions, I have noticed that some of you usually write below earlier messages, I used to do the same for obvious chronological reasons, and also because I thought it was more polite, but a blind man once taught me that this was very bad for blind people who read their list messages via text to speech applications: they have to listen to all the old stuff they already know about before getting to the new bit. All email clients should have a setting for answering above quoted text by default, maybe we could adopt this convention? Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grimer" To: Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 1:07 AM Subject: Re: Sprain Mag Motor > At 11:32 am 02/03/2006 -0900, you wrote: >> >>On Mar 2, 2006, at 7:07 AM, hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: hohlrauml6d >>> >>> Paul is often a little sloppy with his terminology. He forgets to >>> use the proper units. The pulse duration is not .028 ms, it's .028 s. >>> >>> <><><><><><><> >>> >>> Damn, I didn't finish the post. Why does the brain degrade so >>> quickly after reaching 50? >>> >>> I meant to add that Paul meant 1.05 Watt-seconds, a measure of >>> energy equal to 1.05 Joule. It is usually considered polite to >>> capitalize the units which represent a name. >> >>Surprisingly to many, this is not so. When a scientist's name >>reaches the exalted state of being used as a unit, then when spelled >>out in that usage it is no longer capitalized. This non- >>capitalization rule is in itself an honor, designating the use of an >>international standard. However, the name is still capitalized in the >>abbreviation. Consider the following SI units and their abbreviations: >> >>hertz Hz >>newton N >>Pascal Pa >>joule J >>watt W >>coulomb C >>volt V >>ohm (capital omega) >>siemens S >>farad F >>tesla T >>weber Wb >>henry H >>becquerel Bq >>gray Gy >>sievert Sv >> >>and some ordinary SI units: >> >>lumen lm >>lux lx >>radian rad >>steradian sr >> >>Horace Heffner > > > Personally, I find this canonization of scientists bloody annoying. > As a protest I always write Centigrade instead of Celsius. At least > with a unit like a lumen or lux, you know it has something to > do with light - and a radian relates to a radius - but names like > gray and sievert convey absolutely nothing to me. > > At least you yanks have stuck to the imperial system of weights and > measures for common usage and not adopted the froggy metric - yet. ;-) > > Frank > > (even my spell checker didn't recognise sievert) > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 19:27:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k233R4jG017553; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 19:27:05 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k233QvrA017428; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 19:26:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 19:26:57 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 22:26:45 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C80C896EB1A288-D48-8F7A@mblkn-m08.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Stirring Syrup Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.72 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66729 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Vorts, Have you ever stirred cold syrup? You get an interesting reduction in resistance (viscosity) as your stirring warms the syrup. Could a rotating magnet have a similar effect on the aether (Beta-atm)? Dr. Harold Aspden's work tends to support this. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 19:28:06 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k232n7OU030911; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:49:08 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k232n39U030864; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:49:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:49:03 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <001301c63e6d$0581fc40$1714fea9@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Subject: Proton Conductors Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:48:57 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C63E29.F6883260" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66728 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C63E29.F6883260 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ...Hmm, surprised that Fred or Horace haven't thought of this one... (or = maybe they have, or else they already appreciate why it wouldn't work) Proton conductors are of keen interest to many inventor-types, and for = any number of quasi-logical reasons relating to the intersection of low = density, mobility through a solid, and the minimum possible mass = transfer per unit of +charge by a wide margin. There are a few (weak) = reasons to suspect that mechanical mass transfer of charge is not as = rigorously conservative as pure-EMF regimes ... at least in my dreams = Of course, fuel cells and many kinds of LENR depend on proton = conductivity... plus there is the obvious fact that a flow of protons is = probably the cheapest way to move a lot of positive charge (on paper at = least). Let's see - a pound per second of protons recirculating across a = dielectric membrane is something like 50 million amps worth of current, = no? Anyway, it dawned on me just now that of all proton conductors, the = cheapest and most under-utilized ... for this particular kind of = wild-eyed scheme is as close as the kitchen ... water ice. Yup, water ice is both a good conductor of protons - and a dielectric- = and cheaper than cheap (esp. compared to Pd). Is that (ice) a = combination of properties made in inventor's heaven?=20 Not really... unless you have a ready supply of very strong (graphite or = comparable) fiber as well. That is because moving a lot of protons = across a proton conductor might require a centrifuge and/or both a = centrifuge plus a cheap source of ionization (which is transparent to = the ice).=20 One could use a retaining hoop of filament wound carbon fiber to provide = the necessary strength for spinning a thin layer of ice at several = hundred thousand G's ...or is that ...and it wouldn't hurt to have = a cheap source of ionization in there somewhere (thorium or 40K, not to = mention perhaps utilizing "spent fuel' for the sequestered version) ... I think one day, we will come to realize that so-called 'spent fuel' = (from reactors) is far more valuable than the 'un-spent' variety... and = there's probably a good pun in there somewhere to go with the twisted = way of looking at the situation. ...the iceman returneth Jones ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C63E29.F6883260 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

...Hmm, surprised that Fred or Horace haven't = thought of=20 this one... (or maybe they have, or else they already appreciate why it = wouldn't=20 work)

Proton conductors are of keen interest to many=20 inventor-types, and for any number of quasi-logical reasons = relating to the=20 intersection of low density, mobility through a solid, and the minimum = possible=20 mass transfer per unit of +charge by a wide margin. There are a few = (weak)=20 reasons to suspect that mechanical mass transfer of charge is = not as=20 rigorously conservative as pure-EMF regimes ... at least in my = dreams=20 <G>

Of course, fuel cells and many kinds of LENR = depend on=20 proton conductivity... plus there is the obvious fact that a flow of = protons is=20 probably the cheapest way to move a lot of positive charge (on paper at = least).=20 Let's see - a pound per second of protons recirculating across a = dielectric=20 membrane is something like 50 million amps worth of current, = no?

Anyway, it dawned on me just now that of all = proton=20 conductors, the cheapest and most under-utilized ... for this particular = kind of=20 wild-eyed scheme is as close as the kitchen ... water ice.

Yup, water ice is both a good conductor of protons = - and a=20 dielectric- and cheaper than cheap (esp. compared to Pd). Is that (ice) = a=20 combination of properties made in inventor's heaven?

Not really... unless you have a ready supply of = very strong=20 (graphite or comparable) fiber as well. That = is=20 because moving a lot of protons across a proton conductor might = require a=20 centrifuge and/or both a centrifuge plus a cheap source of ionization = (which is=20 transparent to the ice).

One could use a retaining hoop of filament wound = carbon=20 fiber to provide the necessary strength for spinning a thin layer of ice = at=20 several hundred thousand G's ...or is that <G's>...and it wouldn't = hurt to=20 have a cheap source of ionization in there somewhere (thorium or 40K, = not to=20 mention perhaps utilizing "spent fuel' for the sequestered version)=20 ...

I think one day, we will come to realize that = so-called=20 'spent fuel' (from reactors) is far more valuable than the 'un-spent' = variety...=20 and there's probably a good pun in there somewhere to go with the = twisted way of=20 looking at the situation.

...the iceman returneth

Jones

 

------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C63E29.F6883260-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 19:41:33 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k233fFxm025098; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 19:41:16 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k233fBFE025053; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 19:41:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 19:41:11 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 22:41:01 -0500 Message-Id: <8C80C8B6D4F234C-D48-8FF0@mblkn-m08.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <8C80C79565D48E0-D48-8BE1@mblkn-m08.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <8C80C79565D48E0-D48-8BE1@mblkn-m08.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Sprain Magmo Theory Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.72 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66730 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Vorts, I have seen one of these on the web already. I have heard it put quite simply "converting magnetic energy to mechanical energy." Some say "not overunity, the energy has to come from somewhere". This is true! Whether you are striking a match or tapping the ZPE, you are ultimately drawing from the big bang. But, I think the magmo can work because of turtles. Or as my good friend says, "it's all about missing epsilons." If you can find a third order effect altered by a second order effect, you have probably found what Bearden calls "regauging." Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 20:06:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2345j9S004897; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 20:05:46 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2345e37004843; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 20:05:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 20:05:40 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f In-Reply-To: <002d01c63e12$2f97f8a0$1714fea9@NuDell> References: <002d01c63e12$2f97f8a0$1714fea9@NuDell> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <27A1FEC2-31B3-446D-B6F1-9FC764C919ED@mtaonline.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Surprise, surprise Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 19:05:35 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66731 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ooops! That was Westinghouse, not GE. http://www.bnfl.com/ http://www.terradaily.com/reports/ Toshiba_To_Pay_Double_For_Westinghouse.html http://uk.computers.toshiba-europe.com/cgi-bin/ToshibaCSG/ news_article.jsp?ID=0000006709 Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 2 22:07:03 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2366mqU028219; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 22:06:48 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2366lxG028197; Thu, 2 Mar 2006 22:06:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 22:06:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: ThomasClark123@aol.com Message-ID: <2f1.3a5b39.313936f2@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 01:06:42 EST Subject: Re: Cold Fusion, The New Rome, and The Saint To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1141366002" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: YES Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66732 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1141366002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/2/2006 9:03:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, steven@newenergytimes.com writes: Thomas, I missed the previous message you are referring to. What references? And your viewpoints fascinate me. Feel free to introduce yourself if you wish. Steve Sorry, I did not include the comments by the other person which was on another list but was pertinent to this one. I have enclosed his comments below: http://groups.msn.com/ConspiracyTheory/general.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0 &ID_Message=70308&LastModified=4675562509036083538 From: El NorteSent: 2/22/2006 9:48 PM As I remember the whole plot revolved around his anger over the murder of his childhood sweetheart in a school for orphans? His life was an act of retrobution. Speaking of Cold Fusion, I was doing a search on the Paladium which was a likeness of Nike fashioned by Athena her sister, who killed her in a game of war. Athena fashioned it as an act of penance, and worshiped it in memory of her. But Zues became so jealous of her grief that he cast it into the Troad, where it was found by Dardanus, who founded the city of Troy on that very spot. The Gods said that as long as the Trojans kept it safe their City would never be destroyed, and when Aeneas fled to Italy he took what was left of it with him, where it was kept on the Palatine Hill and guarded by the Vestal Virgins until the Fall of The Western Empire. It's said that no man can look upon it without being blinded, although there were some notable acceptions. Including Aeneas and his Father Anchises, who was blinded but had his sight restored by Aphrodite, his lover and Aeneas' Mother. Apparently there are theories of cold fusion for which this metal is an essential element. Although I never heard of Paladium, or knew it was a precious metal before in my life. And I sat through the Iliad my Sophmore year of High School like everybody else. I did hear it's used for Class Rings, if I heard that right. It's about half the price of Gold on the market. About $200 an ounce. Not a Troy Ounce I would think because that refers to Gold, right? The root word even figures into Western European folklore as the Palatine, which was the French Legend cycle. I'm familiar with the name but not the story, as I've never had the time to devote to it. Remember "Have Gun, Will Travel", Paladin was the character's name. Figures, right?? Wow! Come visit my site http://www.Groups.msn.com/Gaelateca. Lots of stuff on Xenophilia, The Western Phoenicians, The Einstein Revolution, and links to many other sites -------------------------------1141366002 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 3/2/2006 9:03:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, steven@ne= wenergytimes.com writes:
Thomas, I missed the previous message you are=20= referring to. What references?

And your viewpoints fascinate me. Feel= free to introduce yourself if you wish.

Steve
Sorry, I did not include the comments by the other person which was on=20= another list but was pertinent to this one. I have enclosed his comments bel= ow:
 
From: El Norte Sent: 2/22/200= 6 9:48 PM
As I remember the whole plot revolved around his anger over the murder=20= of his childhood sweetheart in a school for orphans? His life was an act of=20= retrobution. Speaking of Cold Fusion, I was doing a search on the Paladium w= hich was a likeness of Nike fashioned by Athena her sister, who killed her i= n a game of war. Athena fashioned it as an act of penance, and worshiped it=20= in memory of her. But Zues became so jealous of her grief that he cast it in= to the Troad, where it was found by Dardanus, who founded the city of Troy o= n that very spot. The Gods said that as long as the Trojans kept it safe the= ir City would never be destroyed, and when Aeneas fled to Italy he took what= was left of it with him, where it was kept on the Palatine Hill and guarded= by the Vestal Virgins until the Fall of The Western Empire. It's said that=20= no man can look upon it without being blinded, although there were some nota= ble acceptions. Including Aeneas and his Father Anchises, who was blinded bu= t had his sight restored by Aphrodite, his lover and Aeneas' Mother.
 
Apparently there are theories of cold fusion for which this metal=20= is an essential element. Although I never heard of Paladium, or knew it was=20= a precious metal before in my life. And I sat through the Iliad my Sophmore=20= year of High School like everybody else. I did hear it's used for Class Ring= s, if I heard that right. It's about half the price of Gold on the market. A= bout $200 an ounce. Not a Troy Ounce I would think because that refers to Go= ld, right? The root word even figures into Western European folklore as= the Palatine, which was the French Legend cycle. I'm familiar with the name= but not the story, as I've never had the time to devote to it. Remember "Ha= ve Gun, Will Travel", Paladin was the character's name. Figures, right?? Wow= !
 
Come visit my site http://www.Groups.msn.com/Gaelateca. Lots of stuff on Xenophil= ia, The Western Phoenicians, The Einstein Revolution, and links to many= other sites
-------------------------------1141366002-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 05:38:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23Dchre015156; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 05:38:43 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k23DcfVE015142; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 05:38:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 05:38:41 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <000a01c63ec7$c327b050$71027841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: Myths, Fables and Old Rome Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 07:38:30 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C63E95.77FDAA80"; type="multipart/alternative" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2005-06-05) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.5 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66733 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C63E95.77FDAA80 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0007_01C63E95.77FF3120" ------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C63E95.77FF3120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankHowdy Vots, While bantering around ancient Greek myths, some truisms emerge. Ancient Rome collapsed. If CF can be commercialized, manufacturing would not take place in the = USA At the rate the public attitude is changing regarding the war in Iraq, = another Vietnam can emerge. An encirclement by extreme left wing regimes emerging in Latin America = pose an added threat to our nation's oil supply considering Mexico, = Venezuela, Nigeria and the Middle East turmoil. Last year's US budget deficit was readjusted to 725 billion, up from the = guestimate of $ 500 bil. The true estimate is over 1.2 Trillion. US trade imbalance rose to more than 500 Billion. The Pentagon outsourced strategic and secret military electronics to = China. Increase in counterfeiting of US currency is at epidemic stage = worldwide. The US government is simply incapable of solving the NOLA task. A good stage magician uses a " sparkler" to hold the audience's = attention while his left hand is in his pocket preparing the next = sleight of hand. Our magician is about out of tricks and beginning to sweat because any = magician worth his salt will tell you that childrens' attrention span is = way too short to pull off more than one or two. AS much as " mainstream" science via the US university system has tried = to villify CF, they do NOT have an alternate. Perhaps the Vorts group has a more candid view of the true situation. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C63E95.77FF3120 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Howdy Vots,
 
While bantering around ancient Greek myths, some truisms = emerge.
Ancient Rome collapsed.
If CF can be commercialized, manufacturing would not take place = in the=20 USA
At the rate the public attitude is changing regarding the war in = Iraq,=20 another Vietnam can emerge.
An encirclement by extreme left wing regimes emerging in Latin = America=20 pose an added threat to our nation's oil supply considering Mexico, = Venezuela, Nigeria and the Middle East turmoil.
Last year's US budget deficit was readjusted to 725 billion, up = from the=20 guestimate of $ 500 bil. The true estimate is over 1.2 Trillion.
US trade imbalance rose to more than 500 Billion.
The Pentagon outsourced strategic and secret military electronics = to=20 China.
Increase in counterfeiting of US currency is at epidemic stage=20 worldwide.
The US government is simply incapable of solving the NOLA = task.
 
A good stage magician uses a " sparkler" to hold the audience's = attention=20 while his left hand is in his pocket preparing the next sleight of = hand.
 
Our magician is about out of tricks and beginning to sweat because = any=20 magician worth his salt will tell you that childrens' attrention span is = way too=20 short to pull off more than one or two.
 
AS much as  " mainstream" science via the US university system = has=20 tried to villify CF, they do NOT have an alternate.
Perhaps the Vorts group has a more candid  view of the true=20 situation.
 
Richard
------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C63E95.77FF3120-- ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C63E95.77FDAA80 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000501c63ec7$c24eb570$71027841@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C63E95.77FDAA80-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 05:45:40 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23DjJgv019346; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 05:45:20 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k23DjHTP019305; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 05:45:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 05:45:17 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=bptRmiwgeVRWm7ykxfMrE6zVMTtoTH7vsUdeW3O1Y1kOeF96MQ6Xaa51qSPMVc25Yy+8Vdvym0jyZhkUXzyaKWPYKKdBFbBprYHgSyaqd8pink15ZFxGCNFv6ZN4Zs6Z1m9HVnq//nfcVYsjb8WHTP7Dg4JdNj/GGvCjnFZd0S0= ; Message-ID: <20060303134510.11970.qmail@web51711.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 05:45:10 -0800 (PST) From: Terry Blanton Subject: Fwd: [Beta-atmosphere_group] Another bounced Vortex message To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66734 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Vorts, This is an important message and I am forwarding it to Vortex in hopes that it will make it past the Carnivore filter this time. I have also blind copied the inventor because it advances a theory which validates his design. It is, however, necessary to follow the rantings of the concrete-head, Grimer, on the referenced group in order to understand what is said. It also helps to be aware of the Aspden Effect. Terry --- fgrimer wrote: > To: Beta-atmosphere_group@yahoogroups.com > From: "fgrimer" > Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 10:59:40 -0000 > Subject: [Beta-atmosphere_group] Another bounced Vortex message > > which I'm parking here so it don't get lost. 8-) > > ================================================= > At 10:41 pm 02/03/2006 -0500, Terry wrote: > > > Vorts, > > > > I have seen one of these on the web already. > > I have heard it put quite simply, > "converting > > magnetic energy to mechanical energy." > > Some say "not overunity, the energy has to come > > from somewhere". This is true! Whether you are > > striking a match or tapping the ZPE, you are > > ultimately drawing from the big bang. > > > > But, I think the Magmo can work because of > > turtles. Or as my good friend says, "it's all > > about missing epsilons." > > > > If you can find a third order effect altered > > by a second order effect, you have probably > > found what Bearden calls "regauging." > > > > Terry > > > I'm sure most Vortexians must be familiar with the > action of that popular scientific toy, the Crookes > radiometer, a set of vanes, each shiny on one side > and blackened on the other, that is mounted in an > evacuated vessel. When exposed to light, the vanes > revolve. > > For details and Figures see .... > > http://science.howstuffworks.com/question239.htm > > .... and follow the links for more than you ever > wanted to know. 8-) > > Now imagine the axle projected through the evacuated > glass envelope via a leak proof bearing. This projected > axle drives a propeller in the Alpha-atmosphere. > > Assemble a large number of these transducer elements all > pointing the same way and we have a wind generator, a > source and sink for Alpha-atmosphere flow which will have > the same flux pattern as any other source and sink in a > fluid, the same flow pattern as a magnet for example. > > We have created a device which transduces Beta-atmosphere > energy (EM energy) into Alpha-atmosphere energy (wind) > via gas molecule motion and a membrane/valve/sieve/call > it what you will, which allow B-atm. motion to pass but > prevents A-atm. motion from passing. > > Now imagine miniaturizing such a device to the size of > typical bar magnet and presenting it to some 18th century > Dr.Pork who is completely ignorant of the true nature of > EM radiation. Can't you just imagine him pompously > dismissing the device as a perpetual motion machine. > Can't you just imagine him chuntering on about > conservative thingees and god knows what else. > Even if you put little bits of paper in the jetstream > he would not be prepared to forego his stupid moronic > showstopping dogmas which prevented him from seeing the > obvious. In spit of pointing out that "birds do it, bees > do it, even educated fleas do it", i.e. transduce energy > from a lower turtle to a higher, his diabolical pride > would prevent him from acknowledging the obvious. > > Now from a systems point of view our Crookes ensemble is > no different to a magnet. The only distance is the magnet > is operating one turtle down. Instead of Beta- -> Alpha- > we have Gamma- -> Beta-. And because the lower the turtle, > the stronger the turtle, magnets generate a much more > powerful wind, much more powerful Bernoulli pressure drops > than our Crookes transducer. As an example, consider the > following data recently posted: > > ------------------------------------------ > .5 x.5 x.25 in => 9.1 lb in attraction, > 5.4 lb in repulsion for a Neo 45 > separated by .1 inch. Doubling each time: > > 1x1x.5 => 57 lb A, 34 lb R > 2x2x1 => 277 lb A, 165 lb R > 4x4x2 => 1211 lb A, 733 lb R > 8x8x4 => 5055 lb A, 3018 lb R > ------------------------------------------ > > We wouldn't want to trap our pinkies under any of those, > would we! > > So if turns out that Strain's Magmo does provide > a limitless source of electrical energy, it is merely > because it is tapping a lower fraction of the total Aether. > > And it will be a jolly site more comfortable solution > than tapping Gamma- with lot of bloody piles. > > Cheers, > > Frank > > =================================== > Birds do it, bees do it > Even educated fleas do it > Let's do it, let's fall in love > > In Spain, the best upper sets do it > Lithuanians and Letts do it > Let's do it, let's fall in love > > Some Argentines, without means, do it > People say in Boston even beans do it > Let's do it, let's fall in love > > Romantic sponges, they say, do it > Oysters down in oyster bay do it > Let's do it, let's fall in love > > Cape Cod clams, 'gainst their wish, do it > Even lazy jellyfish, do it > Let's do it, let's fall in love > > In shallow shoals English soles do it > Goldfish in the privacy of bowls do it > Let's do it, let's fall in love > =================================== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Beta-atmosphere_group/ > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > Beta-atmosphere_group-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 05:50:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23DniPF022649; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 05:49:44 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k23Dnf5G022623; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 05:49:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 05:49:41 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=F0cvguM8GPpPiT2CXZ9sHd1q9bGnDNUD6qNP6bajrGBB+EQZZhWfDIkFWZhGTsCn; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006353134927571@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Cow Poop to Miles Per Gallon Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 06:49:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94069c34bd7bf8fe0b6e4bca1060b7028f8350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.210 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66735 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Kilowatts per Kilo? Japanese Make Gasoline From Cattle Dung By KOZO MIZOGUCHI (Associated Press Writer) >From Associated Press March 03, 2006 7:57 AM EST TOKYO - Scientists in energy-poor Japan said Friday they have found a new source of gasoline - cattle dung. Sakae Shibusawa, an agriculture engineering professor at the Tokyo University of Agriculture and Technology, said his team has successfully extracted 1.4 milliliters (0.042 ounces) of gasoline from every 100 grams (3.5 ounces) of cow dung by applying high pressure and heat. "The new technology will be a boon for livestock breeders" to reduce the burden of disposing of large amounts of waste, Shibusawa said. About 500,000 metric tons (551,155 U.S. tons) of cattle dung are produced each year in Japan, he said. Gasoline extracted from cow dung is unheard of, said Tomiaki Tamura, an official of the Natural Resources and Energy Agency. Japan relies almost totally on imports for its oil and gasoline needs. The team, helped by staff from the National Institute of Advanced Industrial Science and Technology near Tokyo, produced gasoline by adding several unspecified metal catalysts to the dung inside a container and applying a 30-atmosphere pressure and heat of up to 300 degrees Celsius (572 Fahrenheit), Shibusawa said. Details of the catalysts could not be disclosed, he added. The team hopes to improve the technology so that it can be used commercially within five years, Shibusawa said. In a separate experiment revealing another unusual business potential for cow dung, another group of researchers has successfully extracted an aromatic ingredient of vanilla from cattle dung, said Miki Tsuruta, a Sekisui Chemical Co. spokeswoman. The extracted ingredient, vanillin, can be used as fragrance in shampoo and candles, she said. ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Kilowatts per Kilo?
 
Japanese Make Gasoline From Cattle Dung
By KOZO MIZOGUCHI (Associated Press Writer)
From Associated Press
March 03, 2006 7:57 AM EST

TOKYO - Scientists in energy-poor Japan said Friday they have found a new source of gasoline - cattle dung.

Sakae Shibusawa, an agriculture engineering professor at the Tokyo University of Agriculture and Technology, said his team has successfully extracted 1.4 milliliters (0.042 ounces) of gasoline from every 100 grams (3.5 ounces) of cow dung by applying high pressure and heat.

"The new technology will be a boon for livestock breeders" to reduce the burden of disposing of large amounts of waste, Shibusawa said.

About 500,000 metric tons (551,155 U.S. tons) of cattle dung are produced each year in Japan, he said.

Gasoline extracted from cow dung is unheard of, said Tomiaki Tamura, an official of the Natural Resources and Energy Agency. Japan relies almost totally on imports for its oil and gasoline needs.

The team, helped by staff from the National Institute of Advanced Industrial Science and Technology near Tokyo, produced gasoline by adding several unspecified metal catalysts to the dung inside a container and applying a 30-atmosphere pressure and heat of up to 300 degrees Celsius (572 Fahrenheit), Shibusawa said. Details of the catalysts could not be disclosed, he added.

The team hopes to improve the technology so that it can be used commercially within five years, Shibusawa said.

In a separate experiment revealing another unusual business potential for cow dung, another group of researchers has successfully extracted an aromatic ingredient of vanilla from cattle dung, said Miki Tsuruta, a Sekisui Chemical Co. spokeswoman. The extracted ingredient, vanillin, can be used as fragrance in shampoo and candles, she said.

 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 06:02:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23E2Jdg029794; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 06:02:21 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k23E2HAa029765; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 06:02:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 06:02:17 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <000c01c63ecb$105ab0e0$71027841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: References: <410-22006353134927571@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Cow Poop to Miles Per Gallon Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:02:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C63E98.C53CE010" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2005-06-05) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.7 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,HTML_40_50, HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Resent-Message-ID: <5VOVD.A.BRH.oxECEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66736 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C63E98.C53CE010 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Howdy Fred, I've heard the smell of C**S*** called a lot of things in Texas, but = Vanillin?? WalMart sell a 40 lb bag of cow manure for .97 cents and our = Texas Legislature passes out BS for free. Where is the enonomic sense ? Richard ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Frederick Sparber=20 To: vortex-l=20 Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 7:49 AM Subject: Re: Cow Poop to Miles Per Gallon Kilowatts per Kilo? Japanese Make Gasoline From Cattle Dung By KOZO MIZOGUCHI (Associated Press Writer) From Associated Press March 03, 2006 7:57 AM EST=20 TOKYO - Scientists in energy-poor Japan said Friday they have found a = new source of gasoline - cattle dung. Sakae Shibusawa, an agriculture engineering professor at the Tokyo = University of Agriculture and Technology, said his team has successfully = extracted 1.4 milliliters (0.042 ounces) of gasoline from every 100 = grams (3.5 ounces) of cow dung by applying high pressure and heat. "The new technology will be a boon for livestock breeders" to reduce = the burden of disposing of large amounts of waste, Shibusawa said. About 500,000 metric tons (551,155 U.S. tons) of cattle dung are = produced each year in Japan, he said. Gasoline extracted from cow dung is unheard of, said Tomiaki Tamura, = an official of the Natural Resources and Energy Agency. Japan relies = almost totally on imports for its oil and gasoline needs. The team, helped by staff from the National Institute of Advanced = Industrial Science and Technology near Tokyo, produced gasoline by = adding several unspecified metal catalysts to the dung inside a = container and applying a 30-atmosphere pressure and heat of up to 300 = degrees Celsius (572 Fahrenheit), Shibusawa said. Details of the = catalysts could not be disclosed, he added. The team hopes to improve the technology so that it can be used = commercially within five years, Shibusawa said. In a separate experiment revealing another unusual business potential = for cow dung, another group of researchers has successfully extracted an = aromatic ingredient of vanilla from cattle dung, said Miki Tsuruta, a = Sekisui Chemical Co. spokeswoman. The extracted ingredient, vanillin, = can be used as fragrance in shampoo and candles, she said. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C63E98.C53CE010 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Howdy Fred,
 
I've heard the smell of C**S*** = called a lot of=20 things in Texas, but Vanillin?? WalMart sell a 40 lb bag of cow manure = for .97=20 cents and our Texas Legislature passes out BS for free. Where is the = enonomic=20 sense ?
Richard
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Frederick Sparber
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 = 7:49=20 AM
Subject: Re: Cow Poop to Miles = Per=20 Gallon

Kilowatts per Kilo?
 
Japanese Make Gasoline From Cattle Dung
By KOZO MIZOGUCHI (Associated Press = Writer)
From Associated Press
March 03, 2006 = 7:57 AM EST=20

TOKYO - Scientists in energy-poor Japan said Friday they have found = a new=20 source of gasoline - cattle dung.

Sakae Shibusawa, an agriculture engineering professor at the Tokyo=20 University of Agriculture and Technology, said his team has = successfully=20 extracted 1.4 milliliters (0.042 ounces) of gasoline from every 100 = grams (3.5=20 ounces) of cow dung by applying high pressure and heat.

"The new technology will be a boon for livestock breeders" to = reduce the=20 burden of disposing of large amounts of waste, Shibusawa said.

About 500,000 metric tons (551,155 U.S. tons) of cattle dung are = produced=20 each year in Japan, he said.

Gasoline extracted from cow dung is unheard of, said Tomiaki = Tamura, an=20 official of the Natural Resources and Energy Agency. Japan relies = almost=20 totally on imports for its oil and gasoline needs.

The team, helped by staff from the National Institute of Advanced=20 Industrial Science and Technology near Tokyo, produced gasoline by = adding=20 several unspecified metal catalysts to the dung inside a container and = applying a 30-atmosphere pressure and heat of up to 300 degrees = Celsius (572=20 Fahrenheit), Shibusawa said. Details of the catalysts could not be = disclosed,=20 he added.

The team hopes to improve the technology so that it can be used=20 commercially within five years, Shibusawa said.

In a separate experiment revealing another unusual business = potential for=20 cow dung, another group of researchers has successfully extracted an = aromatic=20 ingredient of vanilla from cattle dung, said Miki Tsuruta, a Sekisui = Chemical=20 Co. spokeswoman. The extracted ingredient, vanillin, can be used as = fragrance=20 in shampoo and candles, she = said.

 ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C63E98.C53CE010-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 06:26:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23EPxee010466; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 06:26:00 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k23EPuxj010430; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 06:25:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 06:25:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=noIMZt+zvj+ly7j7+vpskbO8MLyyiZMeWaAizuplY75/NBQfRq/sfzgIP4qZppnx; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006353142543750@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cow Poop to Miles Per Gallon Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 07:25:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94073f6cb6828cbb65b1014ffe3b83c4396350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.120.129 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66737 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII True, Richard. In a phone conversation with Pete Domenici years ago we discussed how much energy the BS around Washington could produce. Makes economic sense if you have the right Cattle List, No? Sham-Poop Facials for the ladies? Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: RC Macaulay To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 3/3/2006 7:03:12 AM Subject: Re: Cow Poop to Miles Per Gallon Howdy Fred, I've heard the smell of C**S*** called a lot of things in Texas, but Vanillin?? WalMart sell a 40 lb bag of cow manure for .97 cents and our Texas Legislature passes out BS for free. Where is the enonomic sense ? Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 7:49 AM Subject: Re: Cow Poop to Miles Per Gallon Kilowatts per Kilo? Japanese Make Gasoline From Cattle Dung By KOZO MIZOGUCHI (Associated Press Writer) >From Associated Press March 03, 2006 7:57 AM EST TOKYO - Scientists in energy-poor Japan said Friday they have found a new source of gasoline - cattle dung. Sakae Shibusawa, an agriculture engineering professor at the Tokyo University of Agriculture and Technology, said his team has successfully extracted 1.4 milliliters (0.042 ounces) of gasoline from every 100 grams (3.5 ounces) of cow dung by applying high pressure and heat. "The new technology will be a boon for livestock breeders" to reduce the burden of disposing of large amounts of waste, Shibusawa said. About 500,000 metric tons (551,155 U.S. tons) of cattle dung are produced each year in Japan, he said. Gasoline extracted from cow dung is unheard of, said Tomiaki Tamura, an official of the Natural Resources and Energy Agency. Japan relies almost totally on imports for its oil and gasoline needs. The team, helped by staff from the National Institute of Advanced Industrial Science and Technology near Tokyo, produced gasoline by adding several unspecified metal catalysts to the dung inside a container and applying a 30-atmosphere pressure and heat of up to 300 degrees Celsius (572 Fahrenheit), Shibusawa said. Details of the catalysts could not be disclosed, he added. The team hopes to improve the technology so that it can be used commercially within five years, Shibusawa said. In a separate experiment revealing another unusual business potential for cow dung, another group of researchers has successfully extracted an aromatic ingredient of vanilla from cattle dung, said Miki Tsuruta, a Sekisui Chemical Co. spokeswoman. The extracted ingredient, vanillin, can be used as fragrance in shampoo and candles, she said. ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
True, Richard.
 
In a phone conversation with Pete Domenici  years ago we discussed
how much energy the BS around Washington could produce.
 
Makes economic sense if you have the right Cattle List, No? Sham-Poop Facials for the ladies?
 
Fred
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 3/3/2006 7:03:12 AM
Subject: Re: Cow Poop to Miles Per Gallon

Howdy Fred,
 
I've heard the smell of C**S*** called a lot of things in Texas, but Vanillin?? WalMart sell a 40 lb bag of cow manure for .97 cents and our Texas Legislature passes out BS for free. Where is the enonomic sense ?
Richard
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 7:49 AM
Subject: Re: Cow Poop to Miles Per Gallon

Kilowatts per Kilo?
 
Japanese Make Gasoline From Cattle Dung
By KOZO MIZOGUCHI (Associated Press Writer)
From Associated Press
March 03, 2006 7:57 AM EST

TOKYO - Scientists in energy-poor Japan said Friday they have found a new source of gasoline - cattle dung.

Sakae Shibusawa, an agriculture engineering professor at the Tokyo University of Agriculture and Technology, said his team has successfully extracted 1.4 milliliters (0.042 ounces) of gasoline from every 100 grams (3.5 ounces) of cow dung by applying high pressure and heat.

"The new technology will be a boon for livestock breeders" to reduce the burden of disposing of large amounts of waste, Shibusawa said.

About 500,000 metric tons (551,155 U.S. tons) of cattle dung are produced each year in Japan, he said.

Gasoline extracted from cow dung is unheard of, said Tomiaki Tamura, an official of the Natural Resources and Energy Agency. Japan relies almost totally on imports for its oil and gasoline needs.

The team, helped by staff from the National Institute of Advanced Industrial Science and Technology near Tokyo, produced gasoline by adding several unspecified metal catalysts to the dung inside a container and applying a 30-atmosphere pressure and heat of up to 300 degrees Celsius (572 Fahrenheit), Shibusawa said. Details of the catalysts could not be disclosed, he added.

The team hopes to improve the technology so that it can be used commercially within five years, Shibusawa said.

In a separate experiment revealing another unusual business potential for cow dung, another group of researchers has successfully extracted an aromatic ingredient of vanilla from cattle dung, said Miki Tsuruta, a Sekisui Chemical Co. spokeswoman. The extracted ingredient, vanillin, can be used as fragrance in shampoo and candles, she said.

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 06:33:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23EXPek014818; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 06:33:25 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k23EXNtE014801; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 06:33:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 06:33:23 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 09:33:18 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C80CE68C516ECF-23E4-7655@mblkn-m17.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Time to Ante Up Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.135 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66738 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I think Bill has a way to donate with a credit card through Amazon: ************************************************************************* **** WELCOME TO VORTEX-L ************************************************************************* **** WARNING: AT LEAST READ THE RULES! 1. $10/yr donation 2. NO SNEERING 3. KEEP MESSAGES UNDER 40K 4. DON'T QUOTE ENTIRE MESSAGES NEEDLESSLY 5. DON'T CC OTHER LIST SERVERS 6. NO SPAMMERS The Vortex-L list was originally created for discussions of professional research into fluid vortex/cavitation devices which exhibit anomalous energy effects (ie: the inventions of Schaeffer, Huffman, Griggs, and Potapov among others.) Skeptics beware, the topics also wander to any anomalous physics such as "Cold Fusion," reports of excess energy in "free energy" devices, chemical transmutation, gravity generation and detection, and all sorts of supposedly crackpot claims. Please see the rules below. This is a public, lightly-moderated list. Interested parties are welcome to subscribe. PLEASE READ THE RULES BEFORE SUBSCRIBING. There is no charge, but donations towards expenses are accepted (see rules below for suggested donation.) Admin addr: vortex-L-request@eskimo.com Mail addr: vortex-L@eskimo.com Webpage: http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/weird/wvort.html Moderator: billb@eskimo.com William J. Beaty 7540 20th Ave NW Seattle, WA 98117 206-788-0775 USA ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 07:15:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23FEZew004169; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 07:14:35 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k23FEXBO004149; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 07:14:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 07:14:33 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C63ED5.2BC9FBBA" Subject: RE: Cow Poop to Miles Per Gallon Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:14:31 -0600 Message-ID: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B40053C@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Cow Poop to Miles Per Gallon Thread-Index: AcY+zoN9nDEaVOibS7u5G8YSA2sRXgABonEg From: "Zell, Chris" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Mar 2006 15:14:31.0185 (UTC) FILETIME=[2BE26010:01C63ED5] Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66739 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C63ED5.2BC9FBBA Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm sorry, I don't want any sham poo =20 I want the real poo. ________________________________ From: Frederick Sparber [mailto:fjsparber@earthlink.net]=20 Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 9:26 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cow Poop to Miles Per Gallon True, Richard.=20 =20 In a phone conversation with Pete Domenici years ago we discussed how much energy the BS around Washington could produce. =20 Makes economic sense if you have the right Cattle List, No? Sham-Poop Facials for the ladies? =20 Fred =20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: RC Macaulay =20 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 3/3/2006 7:03:12 AM=20 Subject: Re: Cow Poop to Miles Per Gallon Howdy Fred, =20 I've heard the smell of C**S*** called a lot of things in Texas, but Vanillin?? WalMart sell a 40 lb bag of cow manure for .97 cents and our Texas Legislature passes out BS for free. Where is the enonomic sense ? Richard ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l =20 Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 7:49 AM Subject: Re: Cow Poop to Miles Per Gallon =09 Kilowatts per Kilo? =20 Japanese Make Gasoline From Cattle Dung By KOZO MIZOGUCHI (Associated Press Writer) From Associated Press March 03, 2006 7:57 AM EST=20 TOKYO - Scientists in energy-poor Japan said Friday they have found a new source of gasoline - cattle dung. Sakae Shibusawa, an agriculture engineering professor at the Tokyo University of Agriculture and Technology, said his team has successfully extracted 1.4 milliliters (0.042 ounces) of gasoline from every 100 grams (3.5 ounces) of cow dung by applying high pressure and heat. "The new technology will be a boon for livestock breeders" to reduce the burden of disposing of large amounts of waste, Shibusawa said. About 500,000 metric tons (551,155 U.S. tons) of cattle dung are produced each year in Japan, he said. Gasoline extracted from cow dung is unheard of, said Tomiaki Tamura, an official of the Natural Resources and Energy Agency. Japan relies almost totally on imports for its oil and gasoline needs. The team, helped by staff from the National Institute of Advanced Industrial Science and Technology near Tokyo, produced gasoline by adding several unspecified metal catalysts to the dung inside a container and applying a 30-atmosphere pressure and heat of up to 300 degrees Celsius (572 Fahrenheit), Shibusawa said. Details of the catalysts could not be disclosed, he added. The team hopes to improve the technology so that it can be used commercially within five years, Shibusawa said. In a separate experiment revealing another unusual business potential for cow dung, another group of researchers has successfully extracted an aromatic ingredient of vanilla from cattle dung, said Miki Tsuruta, a Sekisui Chemical Co. spokeswoman. The extracted ingredient, vanillin, can be used as fragrance in shampoo and candles, she said. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C63ED5.2BC9FBBA Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm sorry, I don't want any sham=20 poo
 
I want the real poo.

From: Frederick Sparber=20 [mailto:fjsparber@earthlink.net]
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 = 9:26=20 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Cow Poop to = Miles=20 Per Gallon

True, Richard.
 
In a phone conversation with Pete Domenici  years ago we=20 discussed
how much energy the BS around Washington could produce.
 
Makes economic sense if you have the right Cattle List, No? = Sham-Poop=20 Facials for the ladies?
 
Fred
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 RC = Macaulay=20
Sent: 3/3/2006 7:03:12 AM =
Subject: Re: Cow Poop to Miles = Per=20 Gallon

Howdy Fred,
 
I've heard the smell of C**S*** called a lot = of things=20 in Texas, but Vanillin?? WalMart sell a 40 lb bag of cow manure for = .97 cents=20 and our Texas Legislature passes out BS for free. Where is the = enonomic sense=20 ?
Richard
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Frederick Sparber
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 = 7:49=20 AM
Subject: Re: Cow Poop to = Miles Per=20 Gallon

Kilowatts per Kilo?
 
Japanese Make Gasoline From Cattle Dung
By KOZO MIZOGUCHI (Associated Press = Writer)
From Associated Press
March 03, 2006 = 7:57 AM=20 EST

TOKYO - Scientists in energy-poor Japan said Friday they have = found a new=20 source of gasoline - cattle dung.

Sakae Shibusawa, an agriculture engineering professor at the = Tokyo=20 University of Agriculture and Technology, said his team has = successfully=20 extracted 1.4 milliliters (0.042 ounces) of gasoline from every 100 = grams=20 (3.5 ounces) of cow dung by applying high pressure and heat.

"The new technology will be a boon for livestock breeders" to = reduce the=20 burden of disposing of large amounts of waste, Shibusawa said.

About 500,000 metric tons (551,155 U.S. tons) of cattle dung are = produced=20 each year in Japan, he said.

Gasoline extracted from cow dung is unheard of, said Tomiaki = Tamura, an=20 official of the Natural Resources and Energy Agency. Japan relies = almost=20 totally on imports for its oil and gasoline needs.

The team, helped by staff from the National Institute of Advanced = Industrial Science and Technology near Tokyo, produced gasoline by = adding=20 several unspecified metal catalysts to the dung inside a container = and=20 applying a 30-atmosphere pressure and heat of up to 300 degrees = Celsius (572=20 Fahrenheit), Shibusawa said. Details of the catalysts could not be=20 disclosed, he added.

The team hopes to improve the technology so that it can be used=20 commercially within five years, Shibusawa said.

In a separate experiment revealing another unusual business = potential for=20 cow dung, another group of researchers has successfully extracted an = aromatic ingredient of vanilla from cattle dung, said Miki Tsuruta, = a=20 Sekisui Chemical Co. spokeswoman. The extracted ingredient, = vanillin, can be=20 used as fragrance in shampoo and candles, she=20 said.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C63ED5.2BC9FBBA-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 07:39:17 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23Fcr1P019596; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 07:38:53 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k23FcpOw019569; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 07:38:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 07:38:51 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=IrbWi5bp6ND2cT91Exz7wuSo+vVsn5ltwAMtQ2+WKovtCQd02nEJHkMeieMRryZB; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006353153842470@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Cow Poop to Miles Per Gallon Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:38:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940af9472be337463729e41807d354ea79a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.171 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66740 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Free Trade potential here? > > Japanese Make Gasoline From Cattle Dung > Really not new Applied Dung Chemistry (ADC). Even Pliny the Elder (23-79 AD) was scooped 9so to speak) by earlier work at the Temple of Ammon, where camel dung was roasted with table salt to produce Sal Ammoniac: Still used for a variety of "Value Added" purposes. Cleaning soldering irons comes to mind. http://www.du.edu/~etuttle/classics/h180.htm " When the temple of Apollo at Delphi burnt down one night, the Amphictyons accepted a bid of 300 talents ($375,000) to rebuild, and stuck the Delphians with a fourth of the cost. The Delphians went around begging for contributions, and received most from Egypt. The Greeks living in Egypt contributed twenty minae ($400), and generous, Greek-loving Amasis, so our text says, sent them 30 tons of alum. How they must have rejoiced to see a shipload of dirt! Now, if we assume Herodotus did not write total absurdity, we have a contradiction here. It is difficult to see both where Amasis would come up with so much alum, since Egypt is not known for producing it, and what the Delphians would do with it, since alum is used as a mordant for dyes, and as a styptic, and 30 tons gets a lot of dyeing done and bleeding stopped. It has no uses in construction or decoration. Moreover, shipment of bulk minerals was not common in the ancient world" "The bulk of the shipment indicates that the cargo could not have been sal ammoniac (made from dung at the temple of Ammon in Thebes), or red ochre (enough to turn all Greece red). It cannot have been lime, which would have been of great use in construction, because although Egypt has a lot of limestone, it lacks the fuel to calcine it. Egypt does produce natron, natural sodium bicarbonate, but 30 tons bakes a lot of biscuits and calms a lot of stomachs. Besides, there is a good Greek word for it, nitron, of which Herodotus would not have been ignorant. We must conclude that there is no probable mineral that could have formed the gift" ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Free Trade potential here?
 
>
> Japanese Make Gasoline From Cattle Dung
>
Really not new Applied Dung Chemistry (ADC).
 
Even Pliny the Elder (23-79 AD) was scooped 9so to speak) by earlier work at the
Temple of Ammon, where camel dung was roasted with table salt
to produce Sal Ammoniac: Still used for a variety of "Value Added" purposes.
Cleaning soldering irons comes to mind.
 
 
" When the temple of Apollo at Delphi burnt down one night, the Amphictyons accepted a bid of 300 talents ($375,000) to rebuild, and stuck the Delphians with a fourth of the cost. The Delphians went around begging for contributions, and received most from Egypt. The Greeks living in Egypt contributed twenty minae ($400), and generous, Greek-loving Amasis, so our text says, sent them 30 tons of alum. How they must have rejoiced to see a shipload of dirt! Now, if we assume Herodotus did not write total absurdity, we have a contradiction here. It is difficult to see both where Amasis would come up with so much alum, since Egypt is not known for producing it, and what the Delphians would do with it, since alum is used as a mordant for dyes, and as a styptic, and 30 tons gets a lot of dyeing done and bleeding stopped. It has no uses in construction or decoration. Moreover, shipment of bulk minerals was not common in the ancient world"
 
"The bulk of the shipment indicates that the cargo could not have been sal ammoniac (made from dung at the temple of Ammon in Thebes), or red ochre (enough to turn all Greece red). It cannot have been lime, which would have been of great use in construction, because although Egypt has a lot of limestone, it lacks the fuel to calcine it. Egypt does produce natron, natural sodium bicarbonate, but 30 tons bakes a lot of biscuits and calms a lot of stomachs. Besides, there is a good Greek word for it, nitron, of which Herodotus would not have been ignorant. We must conclude that there is no probable mineral that could have formed the gift"
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 08:50:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23GoNKd024635; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:50:33 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k23Gg6fp020450; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:42:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 08:42:06 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 11:26:22 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C80CF657D8B944-1048-3955@mblkn-m04.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Speaking of that SMOT fellow . . . Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.68 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66742 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Look what our dear Mr. Watson is into these days: http://www.greenandgoldenergy.com.au/ A Fresnel focused solar collector. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 09:20:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23HKAMe010417; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:20:21 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k23HJVVG009941; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:19:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:19:31 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <44087A7C.1010503@usfamily.net> Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 11:18:52 -0600 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Takahashi Motor References: <44048A85.4000507@usfamily.net> <8C80AB5C034EF7C-2724-2D24@mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C80AB5C034EF7C-2724-2D24@mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66743 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I posted, ant Terry replied hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote: > Takahashi/Kawai operates with the mags in opposition. This damages > the magnetic spin alignments. Sprain operates in attraction which can > only enforce the alignments. > > You really need to study your aether theory. > > -----Original Message----- > > When the Takahashi motor first came out, it caused quite a stir. > However the excitement soon faded. Later I saw a posting offering the > moped that it was mounted in for sale. If I see conclusive proof of energy production, either charge a battery while the motor runs the generator, or the output of the generator heats water, then I'll take this seriously. If a permenant magnet involved, I'll want to see it work for a long enougn period to account for magnetic conditioning. --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 09:30:12 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23HTosl015699; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:29:51 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k23HTk1V015649; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:29:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:29:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 12:29:38 -0500 Message-Id: <8C80CFF2EC6FC33-1048-3BF9@mblkn-m04.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <44048A85.4000507@usfamily.net> <8C80AB5C034EF7C-2724-2D24@mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> <44087A7C.1010503@usfamily.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <44087A7C.1010503@usfamily.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Takahashi Motor Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.68 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k23HTeqX015562 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66745 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: thomas malloy If I see conclusive proof of energy production, either charge a battery while the motor runs the generator, or the output of the generator heats water, then I'll take this seriously. If a permenant magnet involved, I'll want to see it work for a long enougn period to account for magnetic conditioning.  <><><><><><><> If the present theory of magnetism is correct, magnetism is the result of aligned spin axes of the material. If you are constantly banging this alignment with magnetic moments in opposition, you eventually structurally alter the magnetic material forcing the alignments askew. However, if you align magnets in attraction, the moments are less likely skew the alignments. In my opinion. I could be wrong (which my wife celebrates). Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 09:33:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23HWwRG017415; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:32:59 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k23HW7T7017039; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:32:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:32:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 12:31:33 -0500 Message-Id: <8C80CFF7303943C-1048-3C17@mblkn-m04.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <8C80C896EB1A288-D48-8F7A@mblkn-m08.sysops.aol.com> <02f701c63ed9$d9c52880$4b01a8c0@colin5fc9e2583> <8C80CF618F702A4-1048-3942@mblkn-m04.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <8C80CF618F702A4-1048-3942@mblkn-m04.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Stirring Syrup Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.68 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k23HW0Eb016981 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66746 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message-----  From: Colin Quinney    Stirring Syrup. Yes, a *very* interesting analogy, and thanks for that :)     <><><><><><><>    It has to be a Beta-atm or aether "viscosity" change because, when you do the Aspden re-start, regardless of which way it first turned, it takes less energy on the second turnup whether it's clockwise or windershins!!!    Terry  ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 10:21:46 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23IK6Gj009631; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:21:22 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k23HT18X015314; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:29:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:29:01 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 12:23:38 -0500 Message-Id: <8C80CFE586414FF-1048-3BC2@mblkn-m04.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <8C80C79565D48E0-D48-8BE1@mblkn-m08.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <8C80C79565D48E0-D48-8BE1@mblkn-m08.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Magnetic Force Calculator Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.68 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k23HSuFh015255 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66744 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: hohlrauml6d http://tinyurl.com/eu6p5    Has a neat force calculator. It shows an interesting relationship if you pick a geometry and vary the size:  <><><><><><><> As my forensic engineer friend has pointed out, this calculator shows an even more interesting relationship if you fix the size and vary the gap between magnets. It would appear that if you stay on the knee of the curve (don't get too close nor too far apart) and used a six magnet rotor spaced at 60 degrees, the attractive force gradient to the stator of the other five combined will drive number six "over the hump" at the smallest gap without an electromagnet. He used 1 inch cubed Neo 45s in his calculation. Sirius implications here, folks. Perendev beware! Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 08:03:08 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23FmKXP025807; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 07:48:21 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k23FmD0U025712; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 07:48:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 07:48:13 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=dOeha3mom6pipWAunxcyUW7b5k+Pm5RQBNxr77Lgs8j8xlBlOixEoFwjCCeS5f534I3MZi8Y7GEc1GzqYOdIA5f6ozCWLvqfJeiLdkzKzOrjDcq5RYE5WO/T/As4BQhmD9QKQabJSzL4rJdXMAr55uhiz8tx4buwmE1TgWrq6zM= ; Message-ID: <02f701c63ed9$d9c52880$4b01a8c0@colin5fc9e2583> Reply-To: "Colin Quinney" From: "Colin Quinney" To: References: <8C80C896EB1A288-D48-8F7A@mblkn-m08.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: Stirring Syrup Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:48:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 Resent-Message-ID: <7RmOuD.A.lRG.7UGCEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66741 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends5 Status: RO X-Status: Hi Terry, Stirring Syrup. Yes, a *very* interesting analogy, and thanks for that :) I assume you are referring to the Aspden Effect.. here.. http://www.aspden.org/papers/bib/1995f.htm and here.. http://web.archive.org/web/20040604052749/http://www.energyscience.co.uk/le/Le30/le30.html http://tinyurl.com/ez8dr ..where a permanent magnet motor gets up to the same RPM, (from stop) but **much quicker** on it's subsequent run(s)? If so, may I say that Aspden's report is IMO by far one of the most interesting reported inertial effects that I have ever come across, with one reason being that it should be easily verifiable. I am therefore still looking for a good description of the PM motor design that he utilized. Perhaps it can be found in New Energy News, volume 2, pp. 1-2 (1995) but on Harold Aspden's web site his description of the motor is incomplete. I would not mind attempting a replication. Has anyone here a better description of Aspden's motor? Or has anyone done a replication? Thanks, Colin Quinney Toronto ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 10:26 PM Subject: Stirring Syrup > Vorts, > > Have you ever stirred cold syrup? You get an interesting reduction in > resistance (viscosity) as your stirring warms the syrup. > > Could a rotating magnet have a similar effect on the aether (Beta-atm)? > > Dr. Harold Aspden's work tends to support this. > > Terry > ___________________________________________________ > Try the New Netscape Mail Today! > Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List > http://mail.netscape.com > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 10:38:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23IbrZm020090; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:37:53 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k23Ibo8m020056; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:37:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:37:50 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <200603031837.k23IbiES060947@mail1.mx.voyager.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 12:37:45 -0600 From: "OrionWorks" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: svj@orionworks.com Reply-To: svj@orionworks.com Subject: Check out QVac Engineering Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_ebfddedafe7a4f2ec4a326d17405c71c" X-Mailer: CoreComm Webmail X-IPAddress: 130.47.34.2 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66748 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=_ebfddedafe7a4f2ec4a326d17405c71c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Vorts, There's been a potentially interesting development over at the Yahoo Hydrino discussion group. A new individual named Mark Porringa, PEng, has just introduced himself. He has introduced a new atomic theory that appears to seriously challenge Standard Quantum Mechanics. Mark's theory places some interesting angles on Dr. Mill's Classical Quantum Mechanics theory as well. ZPE is involved in a BIG way. Dr. Mills may not be amused, though I suspect it might be worth his time to compare theories. (I hope he does.) See Mark's web site at: http://www.lnhatom.com/ Check out QVac Engineering. How to take advantage of ZPE is discussed. Also discussed: Permanent Magnetic Motors Resonance Electrolysis Atomic Force Engines Electrical Generators Field Effect - Reactionless Propulsion (Gravitonics / Intertonics) Vortex Flow Turbines Cavitation Technology Scaler Wave Electromagnetics Low Energy Nucleonics (Including COLD FUSION? - svj) Angstrotechnoogy Positornics It seems likely to me that Mark's entry into the public arena (even though he has been working on his theory for at least 15 years) will spark considerable debate within the Hydrino discussion group as well as here. Could be very interesting development. I suspect there's enough pickings here to intrigue just about every Vort of any type of theoretical persuasion conceivable! Enjoy! Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorkse.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks --=_ebfddedafe7a4f2ec4a326d17405c71c Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Vorts,

There's been a potentially interesting development over at the Yahoo Hydrin= o discussion group. A new individual named Mark Porringa, PEng, has just in= troduced himself. He has introduced a new atomic theory that appears to ser= iously challenge Standard Quantum Mechanics. Mark's theory places some inte= resting angles on Dr. Mill's Classical Quantum Mechanics theory as well. ZP= E is involved in a BIG way. Dr. Mills may not be amused, though I suspect i= t might be worth his time to compare theories. (I hope he does.)

See Mark's web site at: http://www.lnhatom.com/

Check out QVac Engineering.

How to take advantage of ZPE is discussed.

Also discussed:

Permanent Magnetic Motors
Resonance Electrolysis
Atomic Force Engines
Electrical Generators
Field Effect - Reactionless Propulsion (Gravitonics / Intertonics)
Vortex Flow Turbines
Cavitation Technology
Scaler Wave Electromagnetics
Low Energy Nucleonics (Including COLD FUSION? - svj)
Angstrotechnoogy
Positornics

It seems likely to me that Mark's entry into the public arena (even though = he has been working on his theory for at least 15 years) will spark conside= rable debate within the Hydrino discussion group as well as here. Could be = very interesting development. I suspect there's enough pickings here to int= rigue just about every Vort of any type of theoretical persuasion conceivab= le!

Enjoy!

Regards,
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorkse.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks
--=_ebfddedafe7a4f2ec4a326d17405c71c-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 10:54:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23I3OIt032352; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:03:25 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k23I3ITh032286; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:03:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:03:18 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=ZFH+zLcudQZhasMcSoaNPDswjTZkjl99QKjiaaF4pRalSYZM68Z+k0+w4RjCHo8t; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006353171239275@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Cow Poop to Miles Per Gallon Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 10:12:39 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94088e92c2b9f018a16ac36bcef0591de00350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.146 Resent-Message-ID: <6PBRY.A.L4H.jTICEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66747 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Thanks to the collaborative efforts of Joseph Hamrick (a retired NACA/NASA engineer) heading up Aerospace Research Corp in Roanoke, Virginia in the 70s-80s and early 90s: Three to Five Megawatt externally-fired gas turbines proven capable of burning cow dung have been generating on-line power from wood wastes for twenty years. Using this energy to electrolyze water to produce Hydrogen (and high purity O2 by-product ) Cow Dung at 25% electrical generation efficiency and 25 Kw-Hr/LB electrolyzer H2 production, will produce 30 lb of Hydrogen/ton which is equivalent to the energy of ~ 15 gallons of gasoline consumed in an I.C.E. . The 36 to 60 lbs/sec of 1600+ F (odorless according to EPA tests) turbine exhaust gas can be used for drying and co-generation. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Thanks to the collaborative efforts of Joseph Hamrick (a retired NACA/NASA engineer)
heading up Aerospace Research Corp in Roanoke, Virginia in the 70s-80s and early
90s:
 
Three to Five Megawatt externally-fired gas turbines proven capable of
burning cow dung have been generating on-line power  from wood wastes for twenty years.
 
Using this energy to electrolyze water to produce Hydrogen (and  high purity O2
by-product ) Cow Dung  at 25% electrical generation efficiency and 25 Kw-Hr/LB
electrolyzer H2 production, will produce 30 lb of Hydrogen/ton  which is equivalent to the energy
of ~ 15 gallons of gasoline consumed in an I.C.E. .
 
The 36 to 60 lbs/sec of 1600+ F  (odorless according to EPA tests) turbine exhaust gas can be used for drying
and co-generation.
 
Fred
 
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 11:06:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23J6QM6001736; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:06:27 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k23J6NFk001701; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:06:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:06:23 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: "John Steck" To: Subject: RE: Time to Ante Up Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 13:06:15 -0600 Message-ID: <000001c63ef5$8b9f7270$040ba8c0@eDentsply.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <8C80CE68C516ECF-23E4-7655@mblkn-m17.sysops.aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k23J6JEQ001660 Resent-Message-ID: <0vkGS.A.ea.uOJCEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66749 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: That would be helpful... Even Pal-Pal would be Ok. Don't like sending checks in the mail anymore. Too much identity theft going on before it gets to where it's supposed to go. 8( -john -----Original Message----- From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net [mailto:hohlrauml6d@netscape.net] Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 8:33 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Time to Ante Up I think Bill has a way to donate with a credit card through Amazon: ************************************************************************* **** WELCOME TO VORTEX-L ************************************************************************* **** WARNING: AT LEAST READ THE RULES! 1. $10/yr donation 2. NO SNEERING 3. KEEP MESSAGES UNDER 40K 4. DON'T QUOTE ENTIRE MESSAGES NEEDLESSLY 5. DON'T CC OTHER LIST SERVERS 6. NO SPAMMERS The Vortex-L list was originally created for discussions of professional research into fluid vortex/cavitation devices which exhibit anomalous energy effects (ie: the inventions of Schaeffer, Huffman, Griggs, and Potapov among others.) Skeptics beware, the topics also wander to any anomalous physics such as "Cold Fusion," reports of excess energy in "free energy" devices, chemical transmutation, gravity generation and detection, and all sorts of supposedly crackpot claims. Please see the rules below. This is a public, lightly-moderated list. Interested parties are welcome to subscribe. PLEASE READ THE RULES BEFORE SUBSCRIBING. There is no charge, but donations towards expenses are accepted (see rules below for suggested donation.) Admin addr: vortex-L-request@eskimo.com Mail addr: vortex-L@eskimo.com Webpage: http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/weird/wvort.html Moderator: billb@eskimo.com William J. Beaty 7540 20th Ave NW Seattle, WA 98117 206-788-0775 USA ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 11:31:08 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23JU33o014874; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:31:03 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k23JK3W7008943; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:20:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:20:03 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060303191950791.C13D12400084@mwinf3201.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060303191952.009ee66c@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 19:19:52 +0000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Time to Ante Up Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66751 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:33 am 03/03/2006 -0500, you wrote: >I think Bill has a way to donate with a credit card through Amazon: I did this when it was first suggested since I have an Amazon account which is very easy to use. Can someone remind me of how it's done cos I can't for the life of me remember - and searches of Amazon and the amasci.com site have proved fruitless. Ta, Frank Grimer From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 11:48:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23JU33m014874; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:30:58 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k23JJxKH008885; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:19:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:19:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060303191951905.DD20C2400084@mwinf3201.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060303191953.009ff65c@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 19:19:53 +0000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Fwd: [Beta-atmosphere_group] Another bounced Vortex message Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66750 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 05:45 am 03/03/2006 -0800, you wrote: > Vorts, > > This is an important message and I am forwarding it > to Vortex in hopes that it will make it past the > Carnivore filter this time. Thanks for that Terry. I notice it's got there twice. Once more and I would be able to echo the Bellman: ------------------------------------------------- Just the place for a Snark! I have said it twice: That alone should encourage the crew. Just the place for a Snark! I have said it thrice: What I tell you three times is true.” -------------------------------------------------- > I have also blind copied the inventor because it advances > a theory which validates his design. It is, however, > necessary to follow the rantings of the concrete-head, > Grimer, on the referenced group in order to understand > what is >said. "Rantings" indeed!!! At school you must have been in as much trouble for cheek as I was 8^) [sent for the whack on average once a week and the only boy in the upper sixth form not to be made a prefect. 8-( ] Cheers, Frank From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 12:50:35 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23Knvvv027850; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:49:57 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k23KntVb027827; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:49:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 12:49:55 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060303204952278.06C421C0008B@mwinf3206.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060303204954.009f66a4@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 4 (Low) Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 20:49:54 +0000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Magnetic Force Calculator Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k23KnqXS027786 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66752 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:23 pm 03/03/2006 -0500, Terry wrote: > > >-----Original Message----- > From: hohlrauml6d > > http://tinyurl.com/eu6p5  >  > Has a neat force calculator. It shows an interesting > relationship if you pick a geometry and vary the size:  > ><><><><><><><> > > As my forensic engineer friend has pointed out, this > calculator shows an even more interesting relationship > if you fix the size and vary the gap between magnets. > It would appear that if you stay on the knee of >the > curve (don't get too close nor too far apart) and used > a six magnet rotor spaced at 60 degrees, the attractive > force gradient to the stator of the other five combined > will drive number six "over the hump" at the >smallest > gap without an electromagnet. > > He used 1 inch cubed Neo 45s in his calculation. > > Sirius implications here, folks. Perendev beware! > > Terry Following up on your Perendev lead I found the following rather informative web-page, http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/Perendev/ MagneticMotor/KeithAnderson_statement/index.html http://tinyurl.com/fbmze It seems clear to me that there is no doubt that magnetic motors work. The big question mark is on how long they continue to work. It is said that a pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty. On this matter I found the following views optimistic. ======================================================== Magnets Don't Demagnetize When Kept Within Their Rating. -------------------------------------------------------- People know that in a car, you don't run the engine rpm's up into the red line, and certainly you don't go above the read line without risking your engine, not just for that moment, but henceforth. You damage the engine. Same thing holds true of magnets. If you stress them, they will demagnetize. This has been shown in the laboratory. Magnet specialists know what a magnet's capabilities are, and know what the magnet's limits are. If a magnetic motor is designed to stay within the magnet's tolerances, then conceivably, demagnetization should not occur. Holds True in Electro-Magnetic Motors "There are many Permanent Magnet motors in the world that continually apply similar magnetic loading forces as what the Perendev motor might experience. As long as the motors are not abused and properly cooled (and not overloaded or stalled in locked rotor mode), the magnets typically last for thousands of hours. "However, if the motor is overloaded such that the magnets get too hot, they will lose their power (or “Demag” themselves). This is why cooling and proper loading is absolutely critical – even more so here as you don’t have an auxiliary source of energy as in typical electric motors." -- J.D. ======================================================== I found the following comment closest to my views. ======================================================== Sterling's Comment -- Wind Turbine Analogy -------------------------------------------------------- If a magnetic motor were feasible, I had envisioned that it would be operating like a turbine -- tapping into some magnetic field in a way not yet fully understood by science. I would like to think that Mike Brady will yet come through. He claims to have tested the gauss of his magnets and that it does not weaken in any detectible way. -- Sterling D. Allan, Oct. 24, 2004 ======================================================== In other words, tapping in to the Gamma-atmosphere which is powering magnetic flow in the Beta-atmosphere in the same way that Beta-atmosphere jiggling powers the Alpha-atmosphere particles in the Crookes Radiometer. Cheers, Frank Grimer From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 14:59:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23Mx163001540; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:59:02 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k23Mwwfm001491; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:58:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:58:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 17:58:50 -0500 Message-Id: <8C80D2D2BFC08CA-2484-4A6F@mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <8C80C896EB1A288-D48-8F7A@mblkn-m08.sysops.aol.com> <02f701c63ed9$d9c52880$4b01a8c0@colin5fc9e2583> <8C80CF618F702A4-1048-3942@mblkn-m04.sysops.aol.com> <033b01c63f08$a418ba10$4b01a8c0@colin5fc9e2583> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <033b01c63f08$a418ba10$4b01a8c0@colin5fc9e2583> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Stirring Syrup Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.131 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k23Mwtcx001451 Resent-Message-ID: <6Rrn2.A.PX.xoMCEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66755 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Colin Quinney If these forces can be modelled in any way as gravito-magnetic forces, then I strongly suspect that they are many orders of magnitude beyond what current theory predicts. Something is therefore fishy. I wonder if Beta-atm can explain both effects? <><><><><><><> (Note the test for the Aspden effect at the bottom of : http://www.padrak.com/ine/NEN_5_4_1.html ) Yes, I believe it can; but, I wouldn't want to rob the pleasure of speculation from Frank. However, I will mention that, while not a perfect analogy, the syrup concept can be applied to inertia. Like trying to run through water, the aether tends to hold one back. But, once moving, it tends to go with the flow and requires force to stop. Remarkably, our intuitive sense of mass coupling to aether is backward, or "inside out" as Frank prefers. Help me out here Jones, remember the wood flywheel we discussed in Frank's group? It's the low density matter which affected the Beta-atm. most. Morgan's flywheel??? Damn faulty organic storage system. Frank's group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Beta-atmosphere_group/ Psssssst. Frank made me a moderator and I added an image to the home page he hasn't seen yet. It kinda 'splains things a bit. ;-) Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 15:30:46 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23MUSuj017635; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:30:31 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k23MUNA6017572; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:30:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:30:23 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=ix.netcom.com; b=Pn4EMlxuBsDrWYwYck38HGNX3n1UGNANcOOcU0SVVVKgLnv51PqusLW7FgXg3rfg; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006353143020570@ix.netcom.com> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: aki@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.1.47.0 (Windows) From: "" To: "vortex-l" Subject: FW: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday March 3, 2006 Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:30:20 -00 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: c4cc7f5f697e8746f66dc3a06d5924d818715126d6a2b7787e964cb182cc9be94e7a3108705b577b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 216.175.94.221 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66754 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Forward from aki@ix.netcom.com (Akira Kawasaki) > [Original Message] > From: What's New > To: > Date: 3/3/2006 9:21:03 PM Subject: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday March 3, 2006 WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 3 Mar 06 Washington, DC 1. GLUCOSAMINE AND CHONDROITIN: INEFFECTIVE FOR ARTHRITIS PAIN? We got a lot of mail last week about our comment on these popular dietary supplements. Based on an NIH-funded trial, reported in the New England Journal of Medicine, WN characterized G-C as "ineffective" for osteoarthritis knee pain. The study reported that: "Overall, glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate were not significantly better than a placebo in reducing knee pain by 20 percent." The double-blind trial was placebo controlled, and celecoxib (Celebrex) was used as a positive control. The problem is that the 1583 patients in the trial were divided into subsets based on severity of pain. Although it was ineffective overall, indignant WN readers pointed out that for the moderate-to-severe subset G-C "provided statistically significant pain relief compared to a placebo." Statisticians groaned: by dividing the cohort into subgroups, the outcome for a specific subset can usually be altered by fiddling with the boundaries. The bottom line in the NEJM study, incidentally, is the ubiquitous report ending, "continued research is needed to establish efficacy." 2. WE FEEL YOUR PAIN: WHAT'S NEW DOES A STUDY OF THE BOTTOM LINE. Much of the e-mail about G-C was anecdotal. Not just from people who used it themselves, but also those who had treated dogs, cats and horses with it(vets love G-C, and point out that pets don't respond to placebos). "The plural of anecdote," someone said, "is data." Although anecdotes are not blind; we decided to see what the data might tell us about What's New. First we divided the messages into subgroups. The groups ranged from,"He's just guessing," to "Park is a liar and must be getting paid under the table by Pfizer." We're still fiddling with the boundaries. 3. GLOBAL MELTING: MEASUREMENTS SHOW IT HAPPENING TOP TO BOTTOM. Two weeks ago, WN commented on satellite data showing glaciers in Greenland rapidly turning into ocean. Today, Science published satellite measurements showing rapid melting at the other end. It had been expected that increased snowfall due to warming would cause the Antarctic ice sheet to gain mass. Meanwhile, Joseph Taylor, 1993 Physics Nobel, told the House Science Committee that small science missions are being cut to feed the shuttle and ISS. 4. DOVER EFFECT: EVEN IN UTAH, ANTI-DARWIN LEGISLATION FLOPS. Utah is one of the most conservative states in the nation, but on Monday, legislation favoring intelligent design lost. Alas, I'm sure the Discovery Institute will be able to find a new gimmick. 5. ACUPUNCTURE: IT DOESN'T MATTER WHERE YOU STICK THE NEEDLE. According to an article in Lancet Neurology, German researchers found that Chinese acupuncture worked about as well as drugs in treating arthritis, but so did sham acupuncture, in which the needle is inserted in the wrong place. WN has been saying this for years http://bobpark.physics.umd.edu/WN04/wn122304.html . THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND. Opinions are the author's and not necessarily shared by the University of Maryland, but they should be. --- Archives of What's New can be found at http://www.bobpark.org What's New is moving to a different listserver and our subscription process has changed. To change your subscription status please visit this link: http://listserv.umd.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=bobparks-whatsnew&A=1 From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 16:35:00 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k240Yd14020226; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:34:39 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k240Yaom020206; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:34:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:34:36 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Toroidal electron Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 11:34:32 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta02ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sat, 4 Mar 2006 00:34:31 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k240YWKH020143 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66756 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi, If the Bohr radius electron is a toroid with the Bohr radius as the major radius, and the classical electron radius as the minor radius, then with both rotational velocities equal at alpha x c we get two rotational frequencies, one with the minor radius, and one with the major radius. For the major radius we get: (alpha x c)/(2 x Pi x r_sub_Bohr) and for the minor radius we get (alpha x c)/(2 x Pi x classical_electron_radius) Multiplying each of these frequencies by Planck's constant yields equivalent photon energies. The first works out to 27.2 eV (Mills' "energy hole"), and the second works out to 511 keV, which is the mass/energy of the electron. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 17:58:33 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k241wInY026772; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 17:58:18 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k241wGa5026749; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 17:58:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 17:58:16 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <011501c63f2f$1c204ed0$1714fea9@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: Subject: Re: Toroidal electron Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 17:58:17 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: <_wSJeD.A.5hG.3QPCEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66757 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin > Multiplying each of these frequencies by Planck's constant > yields > equivalent photon energies. The first works out to 27.2 eV > (Mills' > "energy hole"), and the second works out to 511 keV, which is > the > mass/energy of the electron. Didn't Hartree work all of this out long before R. Mills came along, or am I missing something? ... other than that you are now seeming to prefer a torroid visualiztion to a lissajous? Randy won't like it that you're getting too far afield from his two-dimensional OS.... For those who aren't focused on these details to Robin's intensity, it's worth noting that the classical electron radius is 1/137 as long as the Compton wavelength of the electron, so one would expect this ratio to reappear as a factor in the equivalent photon energies. Thanks to alpha - we have tied-up the 3 most basic length scales: Bohr radius - about 5 × 10^-11 meters Compton wavelength - about 4 × 10^-13 meters Classical electron radius - about 3 × 10^-15 meters .... each of which is 1/137 as big as the previous one. But this has been known for some time. The next step up in the geometric scale is somewhat import for ZPE, no? 137 Bohr radii turns up in the Casimir integral... and one might suspect that it marks the approximate dividing line between Grimer's beta-aether and alpha aether and that may be the optimum size for the "exciton"... ... how excitin' Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 18:25:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k242PYhR008622; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 18:25:34 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k242PXEs008601; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 18:25:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 18:25:33 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <018f01c63f32$e9a335e0$1714fea9@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <8C80C896EB1A288-D48-8F7A@mblkn-m08.sysops.aol.com> <02f701c63ed9$d9c52880$4b01a8c0@colin5fc9e2583> <8C80CF618F702A4-1048-3942@mblkn-m04.sysops.aol.com> <033b01c63f08$a418ba10$4b01a8c0@colin5fc9e2583> <8C80D2D2BFC08CA-2484-4A6F@mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: Stirring Syrup Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 18:25:31 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66758 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: > Remarkably, our intuitive sense of mass coupling to aether is > backward, or "inside out" as Frank prefers. Help me out here > Jones, remember the wood flywheel we discussed in Frank's group? > It's the low density matter which affected the Beta-atm. most. > Morgan's flywheel??? Damn faulty organic storage system. I think the 'coupling' is related more to geometry at the scale of a few nanometers than to actual density - is that what you are referring to? A rotating mass, with or without a magnetic field, apparently reduces the Beta-aether "viscosity" for a period of time. Wood may work better than lead or ferrite, but is probably not optimum. The magnetic field may affect another dimensional constraint. The way this could happen would be if the Beta-atmosphere "viscosity" has physical effects which can be polarized - both in x and y planes and also circularly polarized. When "being polarized on two planes," perhaps enough aether drag is eliminated by the ideal material (could be wood or something else) to give a small hope for OU - even with nothing else. Prior rotation lowers one plane of polarization for a certain time, or maybe two if magnetized. Perhaps an ideal material is a low density magnetic material - who knows? The Aspden effect is not robust under any circumstances. It would demand the we exist physically in 4-spatial dimensions, of course, but all aether would need to reside there (4-space) anyway given the Michelson-Morley expeiment. J. One way to test this would be to shine unpolarized laser light on the circumference of a mirrored rotating cylinder - the laser light which is reflected should be polarized by virtue of the rotation only. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 4 00:24:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k248O9H4018847; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 00:24:09 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k248O75T018834; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 00:24:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 00:24:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060304082403388.5EBB95800085@mwinf3108.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060304082405.0098c82c@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 08:24:05 +0000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Stirring Syrup Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k248O4hB018808 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66759 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:31 pm 03/03/2006 -0500, Terry wrote: [snip]   > It has to be a Beta-atm or aether "viscosity" change > because, when you >do the Aspden re-start, regardless > of which way it first turned, it >takes less energy > on the second turnup whether it's clockwise or > widdershins!!!  >  > Terry  Well done Terry - By drawing attention to the crucial anomaly of the Aspden effect you have managed to jerk my mind out if its canyon up onto the plateau where one can see for miles and miles. "...when you do the Aspden re-start, regardless of which way it first turned, it takes less energy on the second turnup whether it's clockwise or widdershins!!!" That is the important bit that enables us to dispense with the three little sisters' treacle well and concentrate on what is going on inside the magnet. It is natural enough to approach the anomaly from the outside just as one would approach skinning of a cat from the outside. But as you know, there is more than one way to skin a cat. For example, one can approach the task from the inside with a liposuction tube inserted through a convenient orifice. The Aspden effect is so mysterious cos it is the inverse of a very familiar effect. It's like the Shroud. It's not until one sees the negative image that one realises that's precisely what the Shroud is, a negative image. You will realise what that familiar effect is when I turn the problem inside out by bringing the field outside the metal and make the metal copper. This will increase the inertia (mass) as the metal spins up. The fact that the anomaly is so weird almost guarantees it's genuine. It's not the kind of thing Aspden could have dreamt up. So anyone setting out to confirm it can feel they are not likely to be wasting their time. I'll let people digest this lot first and proffer any comments they might wish to make before I delve into how to alter a bodies mass (inertia) by internal rotations and the servo-mechanical implications. Cheers, Frank ============================================================= `Once upon a time there were three little sisters,' the Dormouse began in a great hurry; `and their names were Elsie, Lacie, and Tillie; and they lived at the bottom of a well--' `What did they live on?' said Alice, who always took a great interest in questions of eating and drinking. `They lived on treacle,' said the Dormouse, after thinking a minute or two. `They couldn't have done that, you know,' Alice gently remarked; `they'd have been ill.' `So they were,' said the Dormouse; `VERY ill.' ------------------------------------------------------------- http://www2.sjsu.edu/depts/english/Alice.htm ============================================================= From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 4 02:16:14 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24AG1ec030637; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 02:16:02 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k24AFxKG030612; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 02:15:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 02:15:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <9298B60D-C25F-4D22-8FC0-9A41CEB4A0B6@mtaonline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Horace Heffner Subject: test Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 01:15:58 -0900 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66760 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: test From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 4 05:00:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24Ckp6v003446; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:46:51 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k24Ckie0003375; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:46:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 04:46:44 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=ID2/FVf1++2AjaD5od2GvAeZCRJJrqN4I3s/4qH6YTYJMEudcAuJ4Uxkk6jpIRlk; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006364124614466@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Toroidal electron Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 05:46:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94086228a3ae83c47ef50c38a35b82793b6350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.92 Resent-Message-ID: <804ZL.A.a0.wwYCEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66761 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Nope. The electron is a flat wavy circle (inertial mass particle formed from a trapped photon). The only way possible for something moving at c to stay in one place. 137*c or c/alpha is the Phase Velocity of the trapped wave. Ordinary occurrence on high frequency transmission lines and in wave guides. Draw a path line and impose a wavy line around it.(the frequency is 1/2 the frequency of the 1.02 Mev electron-positron progenitor photon) Lambda = hc/E "Radius" = hc/2(pi)E http://observe.arc.nasa.gov/nasa/education/reference/orbits/orbit_sim.html Law I Mills' Hydrinos occasionally form at > 80% eccentricity. :-) http://observe.arc.nasa.gov/nasa/education/reference/orbits/orbit1.html Law II http://observe.arc.nasa.gov/nasa/education/reference/orbits/orbit2.html Law III http://observe.arc.nasa.gov/nasa/education/reference/orbits/orbit2.html ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Nope. The electron is a flat wavy circle (inertial mass particle formed from
a trapped photon).
 
The only way possible for something moving at c to stay in one place.
 
137*c  or c/alpha is the Phase Velocity of the trapped wave. Ordinary
occurrence on high frequency transmission lines and in wave guides.
 
Draw a path line and impose a wavy line around it.(the frequency is
1/2 the frequency of the 1.02 Mev  electron-positron  progenitor photon)
 
Lambda = hc/E      "Radius" = hc/2(pi)E
 
 
Law I  Mills' Hydrinos occasionally form at > 80% eccentricity.   :-)
 
 
Law II
 
 
Law III
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 4 06:07:09 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24E6pqO012505; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 06:06:52 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k24E6j46012467; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 06:06:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 06:06:45 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <000e01c63f94$d27dfe60$af037841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: Re: Stirring Syrup Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 08:06:22 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01C63F62.86E13990"; type="multipart/alternative" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2005-06-05) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.5 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66762 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C63F62.86E13990 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000B_01C63F62.86E2C030" ------=_NextPart_001_000B_01C63F62.86E2C030 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank Grimer wrote.. >The Aspden effect is so mysterious cos it is the inverse of a very=20 familiar effect. It's like the Shroud. It's not until one sees the=20 negative image that one realises that's precisely what the Shroud is, a negative image. You will realise what that familiar effect is when I turn the=20 problem inside out by bringing the field outside the metal and make=20 the metal copper. This will increase the inertia (mass) as the metal=20 spins up. The fact that the anomaly is so weird almost guarantees it's genuine.=20 It's not the kind of thing Aspden could have dreamt up. So anyone=20 setting out to confirm it can feel they are not likely to be wasting=20 their time. I'll let people digest this lot first and proffer any comments=20 they might wish to make before I delve into how to... Howdy Frank, Now you're getting somewhere! Back to my constant mention of the " = differential" Ah ha! Thinking in differential in lieu of absolute allows the eye = inside your mind to pick and choose how to view both from the inside or = out. Even more so it allows a " comparison" which is the differential. = We become so locked into by what we are taught that it is near = impossible to unlatch the door between inside and outside. Once had a discussion with a "metric" and an " English". My contention = was that my English meter length was more precise than his French meter = because I could measure the difference between the two. He complained, = why is your meter more precise and not mine? and I replied . because I = say so! In measurement, like physics, the true length is secondary in = importance to the difference. Apparently, this is was the approach to = how Nissan solved the problem with their differential variable torque = transmission. Now the next step is how to rotate the space outside the copper sphere = while rotating the inside without moving the copper sphere. If it can be = done in the mind, it's possible. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_000B_01C63F62.86E2C030 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
 
Grimer wrote..
>The Aspden effect is so mysterious cos it is the inverse of a = very=20
familiar effect. It's like the Shroud. It's not until one sees the=20
negative image that one realises that's precisely what the = Shroud
is, a=20 negative image.

You will realise what that familiar effect is = when I turn=20 the
problem inside out by bringing the field outside the metal and = make=20
the metal copper. This will increase the inertia (mass) as the metal =
spins up.

The fact that the anomaly is so weird almost = guarantees=20 it's genuine.
It's not the kind of thing Aspden could have dreamt = up. So=20 anyone
setting out to confirm it can feel they are not likely to be = wasting=20
their time.

I'll let people digest this lot first and proffer = any=20 comments
they might wish to make before I delve into how to...
 
Howdy Frank,
 
Now you're getting somewhere!     Back to my = constant=20 mention of the " differential"
Ah ha!  Thinking in differential in lieu of absolute allows = the eye=20 inside your mind to pick and choose how to view both from the inside or = out.=20 Even more so it allows a " comparison" which is the differential. We = become so=20 locked into by what we are taught that it is near impossible to unlatch = the door=20 between inside and outside.
Once had a discussion with a "metric" and an " English". My = contention was=20 that my English meter length was more precise than his French meter = because I=20 could measure the difference between the two. He complained, why is your = meter=20 more precise and not mine? and I replied . because I say so!  In=20 measurement, like physics, the true length is secondary in importance to = the=20 difference. Apparently, this is was the approach to how Nissan solved = the=20 problem with their differential variable torque transmission.
 
Now the next step is how to rotate the space outside the copper = sphere=20 while rotating the inside without moving the copper sphere. If it can be = done in=20 the mind, it's possible.
 
Richard

 

------=_NextPart_001_000B_01C63F62.86E2C030-- ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C63F62.86E13990 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000901c63f94$d161b8f0$af037841@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C63F62.86E13990-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 4 06:47:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24ElRAk029549; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 06:47:28 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k24ElLfJ029504; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 06:47:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 06:47:21 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=ZufpO27EnGmKn/K7RByQJKdlU1r1JnDtMXtvy6SjFkvyBVI3ybR8ktLLiuYMHJvW; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006364144644922@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Toroidal electron Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 07:46:44 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940bcab932b86a462ce3e0fab21c2252f2a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.74 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66763 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Psychedelic Applet. http://www.falstad.com/emwave1/index.html Setup: Current Loop (except for a particle it will be non-radiating according to Snells' Law of Total Internal Reflection; sin^-1 critical angle = eo/e1 ~ = 0.999972). IOW, the Beta Ether has an index of refraction lower than an EM energy wave/particle. ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 3/4/2006 5:58:07 AM Subject: Re: Toroidal electron Nope. The electron is a flat wavy circle (inertial mass particle formed from a trapped photon). The only way possible for something moving at c to stay in one place. 137*c or c/alpha is the Phase Velocity of the trapped wave. Ordinary occurrence on high frequency transmission lines and in wave guides. Draw a path line and impose a wavy line around it.(the frequency is 1/2 the frequency of the 1.02 Mev electron-positron progenitor photon) Lambda = hc/E "Radius" = hc/2(pi)E http://observe.arc.nasa.gov/nasa/education/reference/orbits/orbit_sim.html Law I Mills' Hydrinos occasionally form at > 80% eccentricity. :-) http://observe.arc.nasa.gov/nasa/education/reference/orbits/orbit1.html Law II http://observe.arc.nasa.gov/nasa/education/reference/orbits/orbit2.html Law III http://observe.arc.nasa.gov/nasa/education/reference/orbits/orbit3.html ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Psychedelic Applet.
 
 
Setup: Current Loop (except for a particle it will be non-radiating according
to Snells' Law of Total Internal Reflection; sin^-1 critical angle = eo/e1 ~ = 0.999972).
 
IOW, the Beta Ether has an index of refraction lower than an EM energy wave/particle.
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 3/4/2006 5:58:07 AM
Subject: Re: Toroidal electron

Nope. The electron is a flat wavy circle (inertial mass particle formed from
a trapped photon).
 
The only way possible for something moving at c to stay in one place.
 
137*c  or c/alpha is the Phase Velocity of the trapped wave. Ordinary
occurrence on high frequency transmission lines and in wave guides.
 
Draw a path line and impose a wavy line around it.(the frequency is
1/2 the frequency of the 1.02 Mev  electron-positron  progenitor photon)
 
Lambda = hc/E      "Radius" = hc/2(pi)E
 
 
Law I  Mills' Hydrinos occasionally form at > 80% eccentricity.   :-)
 
 
Law II
 
 
Law III
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 4 09:44:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24HidoF019682; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 09:44:40 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k24Hib6g019662; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 09:44:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 09:44:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060304174433509.7C78B9400084@mwinf3209.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060304174435.00a0114c@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 17:44:35 +0000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Stirring Syrup Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66764 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:06 am 04/03/2006 -0600, Richard wrote: >Grimer wrote.. >> The Aspden effect is so mysterious cos it is the inverse of a very >> familiar effect. It's like the Shroud. It's not until one sees the >> negative image that one realises that's precisely what the Shroud >> is, a negative image. > >> You will realise what that familiar effect is when I turn the >> problem inside out by bringing the field outside the metal and make >> the metal copper. This will increase the inertia (mass) as the metal >> spins up. > >> The fact that the anomaly is so weird almost guarantees it's genuine. >> It's not the kind of thing Aspden could have dreamt up. So anyone >> setting out to confirm it can feel they are not likely to be wasting >> their time. > >> I'll let people digest this lot first and proffer any comments >> they might wish to make before I delve into how to... >Howdy Frank, >Now the next step is how to rotate the space outside the copper sphere while rotating the inside without moving the copper sphere. If it can be done in the mind, it's possible. > >Richard Very true, Richard. That is why I believe it's turtles all the way down, albeit not Mutant Ninja Turtles. 8-) Frank From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 4 10:34:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24IY7fS011692; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:34:07 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k24IY57n011675; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:34:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 10:34:05 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060304103256.02935910@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 10:36:51 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: Re: global warming: spin or not spin? In-Reply-To: <001a01c63d84$9bece990$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060301114255.02966e60@mail.newenergytimes.com> <001a01c63d84$9bece990$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_1039623453==.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66765 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=====================_1039623453==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Nick, Ad hominem arguments = A technique used to when the facts don't say what you want them to. National Center for Public Policy Research probably sings this Talking Heads song: "Facts are simple and facts are straight Facts are lazy and facts are late Facts all come with points of view Facts don't do what I want them to " ---- > I wish I could slap irresponsible people like this around the face - very, very hard. Hmmmm... s --=====================_1039623453==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Nick,


Ad hominem arguments = A technique used to when the facts don't say what you want them to.


National Center for Public Policy Research probably sings this Talking Heads song:

"Facts are simple and facts are straight
Facts are lazy and facts are late
Facts all come with points of view
Facts don’t do what I want them to "

----

> I wish I could slap irresponsible people like this around the face - very, very hard.

Hmmmm...

s --=====================_1039623453==.ALT-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 4 15:13:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24NDMRN013644; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:13:22 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k24NDCel013590; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:13:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:13:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=QE3P0RHc3rZFYYu8qSSZu+WsSRWPa77sEakO3xQOUZUlb5jn+/gQVRYxvJXYXtx4bZH2nfvG0xi7q+yo4nGce1yD3L0ap94JV/yZW/bULIaP9QyfEnstWMW/qAnA2V76X6nrx+Vh4hkMkwiYLxkq4/71k7QlhpyCzjhoD66fX1U= Message-ID: Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:13:08 -0700 From: "leaking pen" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: test In-Reply-To: <9298B60D-C25F-4D22-8FC0-9A41CEB4A0B6@mtaonline.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_7275_3012186.1141513988188" References: <9298B60D-C25F-4D22-8FC0-9A41CEB4A0B6@mtaonline.net> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66766 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ------=_Part_7275_3012186.1141513988188 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline testes testes, 1, 2, .... 3!?!?!?! On 3/4/06, Horace Heffner wrote: > > test > > -- "Monsieur l'abb=E9, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to ma= ke it possible for you to continue to write" Voltaire ------=_Part_7275_3012186.1141513988188 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline testes testes, 1, 2, ....   3!?!?!?!

On 3/4/06, H= orace Heffner <hheffner@mt= aonline.net> wrote:
test

<= br>

--
"Monsieur l'abb=E9, I detest what you = write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to = write"  Voltaire=20 ------=_Part_7275_3012186.1141513988188-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 4 15:23:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24NN1S0018170; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:23:01 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k24NMx10018147; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:22:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:22:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Toroidal electron Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2006 10:22:57 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <410-22006364124614466@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <410-22006364124614466@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta05ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sat, 4 Mar 2006 23:22:57 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k24NMv6C018126 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66767 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Frederick Sparber's message of Sat, 4 Mar 2006 05:46:14 -0700: Hi Fred, [snip] >Nope. The electron is a flat wavy circle (inertial mass particle formed from >a trapped photon). [snip] If the electron is a flat wavy circle, then what's a positron? If the electron is a toroid, then the positron is just it's mirror image. (The mirror image of a flat wavy circle is still the same flat wavy circle, just turned upside down). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 4 15:42:54 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24Ngg1v026250; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:42:43 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k24Nge6s026228; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:42:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:42:40 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <007b01c63fe5$54826450$1714fea9@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Subject: Blip on CF Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:42:41 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: <0bQzYC.A.tZG.wXiCEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66768 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: FWIW: There is a short blip on Hagelstein and CF in the March Issue of Discover Magazine From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 4 15:46:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24NkaSV027554; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:46:36 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k24NkXsj027529; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:46:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:46:33 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Toroidal electron Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2006 10:46:31 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <011501c63f2f$1c204ed0$1714fea9@NuDell> In-Reply-To: <011501c63f2f$1c204ed0$1714fea9@NuDell> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta01ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sat, 4 Mar 2006 23:46:30 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k24NkUX1027505 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66769 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Jones Beene's message of Fri, 3 Mar 2006 17:58:17 -0800: Hi, [snip] >Didn't Hartree work all of this out long before R. Mills came >along, or am I missing something? I wouldn't know, I have barely heard of Hartree, and have absolutely no idea of what he did. However following your suggestion I'll try to dig something up. > ... other than that you are now >seeming to prefer a torroid visualiztion to a lissajous? The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive. You can have a "wobbly" or twisted toroid. If Frank is right about the aether, then any closed form incorporating the correct amount of motion which is subject to equal pressure over it's entire surface should be able to exist, even if only for a short time (heavy particles?). >Randy >won't like it that you're getting too far afield from his >two-dimensional OS.... Heh, I doubt that he liked the Lissajous figures either. ;) > >For those who aren't focused on these details to Robin's >intensity, it's worth noting that the classical electron radius is >1/137 as long as the Compton wavelength of the electron, so one >would expect this ratio to reappear as a factor in the equivalent >photon energies. Indeed. > >Thanks to alpha - we have tied-up the 3 most basic length scales: >Bohr radius - about 5 × 10^-11 meters >Compton wavelength - about 4 × 10^-13 meters >Classical electron radius - about 3 × 10^-15 meters > >.... each of which is 1/137 as big as the previous one. But this >has been known for some time. ...but putting it all in a toroid makes it very neat, and allows the electron to have two radii, and two energies concurrently, which is exactly what it has. However a small sphere with the classical electron radius orbiting a proton at the Bohr radius would meet those criteria too, and have the advantage that it's mass would "swing" around the proton so that the center of mass of the system is displaced, resulting in the "reduced mass" of the electron. This isn't true of a toroid (as near as I can figure). However the toroid has the advantage that it doesn't radiate, while a spherical electron should. > >The next step up in the geometric scale is somewhat import for >ZPE, no? 137 Bohr radii turns up in the Casimir integral... and >one might suspect that it marks the approximate dividing line >between Grimer's beta-aether and alpha aether and that may be the >optimum size for the "exciton"... > >... how excitin' > >Jones > Since hydrogen gas is very clearly "alpha aether", and it's dimensions are roughly that of the Bohr radius, I think your dividing line is probably in the wrong place. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 4 15:59:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k24Nx83x000434; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:59:09 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k24Nx7H6000416; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:59:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:59:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 18:59:01 -0500 From: fznidarsic@aol.com Message-Id: <8C80DFEBE4E01F8-7AC-3B43@FWM-D25.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 15106 Subject: Toroidal electron Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MailBlocks_8C80DFEBE493D48_7AC_36E9_FWM-D25.sysops.aol.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 205.188.162.1 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66770 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----------MailBlocks_8C80DFEBE493D48_7AC_36E9_FWM-D25.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Frederick Sparber writes Nope. The electron is a flat wavy circle (inertial mass particle formed from >a trapped photon). [snip] I agree, however, it may not be a trapped photon it just may be trapped energy. The doppler shift of the trapped light accounts for the inertial mass of matter. The outward force produced by the energy trying to escape accounts for the gravitational mass of matter, http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chapter7.html I believe that the fine structure constant has to do with the velocity of the transitional quantum state. The velocity is c / 2*137 or about 1 million meters / second. The transitional quantum state determines the energy levels of the atoms and the properties of nuclear decay. http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chapter7.html have a nice day Frank Znidarsic ----------MailBlocks_8C80DFEBE493D48_7AC_36E9_FWM-D25.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Frederick Sparber writes
Nope. The electron is a flat wavy circle (inertial mass particle formed from
>a trapped photon).
[snip]
 
I agree, however, it may not be a trapped photon it just may be trapped energy.  The doppler shift of the trapped light accounts for the inertial mass of matter.  The outward force produced by the energy trying to escape accounts for the gravitational mass of matter,
 
 
 
I believe that the fine structure constant has to do with the velocity of the transitional quantum state.
The velocity is c / 2*137 or about 1 million meters / second.  The transitional quantum state determines the energy levels of the atoms and the properties of nuclear decay.
 
 
 
have a nice day
 
Frank Znidarsic
----------MailBlocks_8C80DFEBE493D48_7AC_36E9_FWM-D25.sysops.aol.com-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 4 16:31:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k250VTSM012558; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:31:29 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k250VSCF012547; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:31:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:31:28 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20060304193019.00ba6e70@localhost> X-Sender: mica%pop.theworld.com@127.0.0.1 (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 19:30:46 -0500 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: Blip on CF Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=10.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on pcls2.std.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1314/Sat Mar 4 08:39:05 2006 on pcls2.std.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66771 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 03:42 PM 3/4/2006 -0800, you wrote: >FWIW: > >There is a short blip on Hagelstein and CF in the March Issue of Discover >Magazine Excerpt and link at the COLD FUSION TIMES web site. http://world.std.com/~mica/cft.html From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 4 19:00:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2530Qxw004803; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 19:00:27 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2530OQO004778; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 19:00:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 19:00:24 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=KmTngPIkPuKH/MiiRdcR+jgPsRa/ZX00pSmfoKfaJj8+aNvGjG8B/y1cCVAS0tMc; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006305301634@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Toroidal electron Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 20:00:16 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940df1465a4bb3af2663d0c23e1862afdf3350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.120.111 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66772 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin. The closest shape for spin and the moment of inertia ( I ) to meet mvr = h/2(pi) = I * 2(pi)f is a flat-wavy disk particle I = 1/2 MR^2 or standing on edge MR^2 An abbreviated list of moments of inertia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_moments_of_inertia Or You can figure out ( I ) for a torus from this. :-) http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/MomentofInertiaTorus.html The Bohr radius "wavelength" 2(pi)R is 137 times the particle wavelength too. You wrote: > > In reply to Frederick Sparber's message of Sat, 4 Mar 2006 > 05:46:14 -0700: > Hi Fred, > [snip] > >Nope. The electron is a flat wavy circle (inertial mass particle formed from > >a trapped photon). > [snip] > If the electron is a flat wavy circle, then what's a positron? A positive flat wavy circle. :-) > If the electron is a toroid, then the positron is just it's mirror > image. The mirror image of a donut is not as tasty as a donut. > > (The mirror image of a flat wavy circle is still the same flat > wavy circle, just turned upside down). Fills the bill for stacked disks in (*e-) and protons. Fred > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ > > Competition provides the motivation, > Cooperation provides the means. > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 4 19:04:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2533n0K006703; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 19:03:49 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2533lIO006687; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 19:03:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 19:03:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060305030343268.416D62400082@mwinf3102.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060305030404.00a04d90@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2006 03:04:04 +0000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Toroidal electron Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66773 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:22 am 05/03/2006 +1100, you wrote: >In reply to Frederick Sparber's message of Sat, 4 Mar 2006 >05:46:14 -0700: >Hi Fred, >[snip] >>Nope. The electron is a flat wavy circle (inertial mass particle formed from >>a trapped photon). >[snip] >If the electron is a flat wavy circle, then what's a positron? >If the electron is a toroid, then the positron is just it's mirror >image. That makes good sense to me Robin. It also allows the positron to be meta-stable (axial and helical motion in the same direction) in relation to the Beta-atmosphere particles and the electron to be sub-stable (axial and helical motion in opposite directions). The neutral mass B-atm particle which is a combination of p and e will obviously have the intermediate stability condition which I suppose one might term ambient stability. Frank Grimer From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 4 20:41:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k254fEfA016967; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 20:41:15 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k254fCjl016930; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 20:41:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 20:41:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Toroidal electron Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2006 15:41:08 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <410-22006305301634@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <410-22006305301634@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta02ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sun, 5 Mar 2006 04:41:07 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k254f9Jo016879 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66774 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Frederick Sparber's message of Sat, 4 Mar 2006 20:00:16 -0700: Hi, [snip] >Robin. > >The closest shape for spin and the moment of inertia ( I ) to meet > mvr = h/2(pi) = I * 2(pi)f is a flat-wavy disk particle I = 1/2 MR^2 >or standing on edge MR^2 > >An abbreviated list of moments of inertia: > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_moments_of_inertia > >Or You can figure out ( I ) for a torus from this. :-) > >http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/MomentofInertiaTorus.html This is for a solid torus, and I'm not sure whether the mass is inside, on, or outside the torus. Nevertheless, taking it at face value, one would only get a difference in angular momentum of 2 parts in a billion, assuming a torus with the dimensions given, and I think that's probably near the limit of current measurements anyway. However I also wonder how anyone knows that the angular momentum actually is h/2xPi? I.e. how is it measured, and which geometrical assumptions are applied to the measurement? (i.e. that value appears to come from assuming the electron is a point particle spinning around at the Bohr radius). [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 4 22:42:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k256ftnr001642; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:41:56 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k256frpT001623; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:41:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 22:41:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Pions Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2006 17:41:51 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta05ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sun, 5 Mar 2006 06:41:50 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k256fnde001579 Resent-Message-ID: <20ahTB.A.QZ.wgoCEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66775 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, ((me*c^2)/alpha)*2)-me*c^2=139.54 MeV Stack 1/alpha toroidal electrons into a cylinder, itself wrapped into a torus, with a charge of -1. Bind two such together and remove a single electron, and you end up with a pion. Now what if the externally measured charge largely self cancels when the cylinder is wrapped into a torus? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 5 04:48:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25CmE1g031970; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 04:48:14 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k25CmC7o031947; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 04:48:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 04:48:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=MigKPA3DpnAl+3tbMUmj9HpdGvgds11nsBxMH2dD+5LxyHaRBu1ThCzY/hCZyPsC; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006305124759679@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Toroidal electron Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 05:47:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940a1cae07ab54875f9f23002bffda75f57350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.241 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66776 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Robin wrote: Snip. > > This is for a solid torus, and I'm not sure whether the mass is > inside, on, or outside the torus. Nevertheless, taking it at face > value, one would only get a difference in angular momentum of 2 > parts in a billion, assuming a torus with the dimensions given, > and I think that's probably near the limit of current measurements > anyway. > Are you are puffing on that Havana Tampa and blowing WHO R U? Toroids, while Frank is sniffing the volatile vapors from a can of Beta Ether? ....Hmmm. :-) Let me say that the disk/flat-washer particle is merely a section of a torus, or a torus flattened out by the enormous beta ether pressure. One can do some calculating based on lineal permeability (uo) and permittivity (eo) of space and the energy contained in a particle. For the electron-positron or pion: L = hc*uo/E and C = hc*eo/E Z ~ = Zo = (L/C)^1/2 ~ = 377 ohms T = h/E q = +/- 1.602e-19 coulombs, (the sign is merely a 180 degree phase conjugate of y = sin x.) E = 1/2 CV^2 V = (E/.5C)^1/2 = 8.7e4 Volts Internal Displacement Current I = q*E/h = 19.7 amperes. IOW, will your proposed Toroidal Electron "ring/oscillate" like a resonant LC (tank?) circuit any better than the Loop/Disk Particle, that the String Theory advocates, came up with? Or does the Superconducting Torus that will "Ring" for decades do any better than a much simpler SC washer? Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Robin wrote:
Snip.
>
> This is for a solid torus, and I'm not sure whether the mass is
> inside, on, or outside the torus. Nevertheless, taking it at face
> value, one would only get a difference in angular momentum of 2
> parts in a billion, assuming a torus with the dimensions given,
> and I think that's probably near the limit of current measurements
> anyway.
>
Are you are puffing on that Havana Tampa and blowing
WHO R U? Toroids, while Frank is sniffing the volatile vapors
from a can of Beta Ether? ....Hmmm.  :-)
 
Let me say that the disk/flat-washer particle is merely a section
of a torus, or a torus flattened out by the enormous beta ether pressure.
 
One can do some calculating based on lineal permeability (uo) and permittivity
(eo) of space and the energy contained in a particle.
 
For the electron-positron or pion:  L = hc*uo/E  and  C = hc*eo/E  
Z ~ = Zo =  (L/C)^1/2   ~ = 377 ohms  T = h/E
q = +/- 1.602e-19 coulombs, (the sign is merely a 180 degree phase
conjugate of y = sin x.)
 
E = 1/2 CV^2  V =  (E/.5C)^1/2 = 8.7e4 Volts
Internal Displacement Current  I = q*E/h  = 19.7 amperes.
 
IOW, will your proposed Toroidal Electron "ring/oscillate" like a resonant LC (tank?)
circuit any better than the Loop/Disk Particle, that the String Theory advocates,
came up with?
 
Or does the Superconducting Torus  that will "Ring" for decades
do any better than a much simpler SC washer?
 
Fred
 
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 5 05:37:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25Db4qc025008; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 05:37:04 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k25DawoM024947; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 05:36:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 05:36:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <000e01c64059$d8204ba0$58037841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: Re: Toroidal electron Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 07:36:42 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01C64027.8C8386D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2005-06-05) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.7 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DSBL, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66777 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C64027.8C8386D0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000B_01C64027.8C8386D0" ------=_NextPart_001_000B_01C64027.8C8386D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankFred wote.. Are you are puffing on that Havana Tampa and blowing WHO R U? Toroids, while Frank is sniffing the volatile vapors=20 from a can of Beta Ether? ....Hmmm. :-) Let me say that the disk/flat-washer particle is merely a section=20 of a torus, or a torus flattened out by the enormous beta ether = pressure. Howdy Fred, I wuz hoping you'd come stepping into the cantina wid dat badge on your = chest before sumbody got outa hand and slung another spittoon at the = mirror over the bar. Them spittoons look sorta weird spinning and = perambulating acroos the room, wad with stuf and snuff coming outa the = top and that funny curve ball path the spin puts on one side.I was = looking in the mirror as one came from behind over my shoulder. Talk = about a strange sight Course it helps when you got a jug of Mezcal to = sorta keep the flies off you. A true scientist gotta know his = limitations when those toroids and pions go whizzin by your ear. Whoops, = sumbody done shot a hole in my sombero and flattened the bullet against = my hat band conch 'dobe dollar. Kinda made me see stars and rung my Beta = bell. Lemme outa here where I can get back to some just plain ole grits and = fatback. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_000B_01C64027.8C8386D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Fred wote..
Are you are puffing on that Havana Tampa and blowing
WHO R U? Toroids, while Frank is sniffing the volatile vapors =
from a can of Beta Ether? ....Hmmm.  :-)
 
Let me say that the disk/flat-washer particle is merely a = section=20
of a torus, or a torus flattened out by the enormous beta ether=20 pressure.
 
Howdy Fred,
 
I wuz hoping you'd come stepping into the cantina wid dat = badge on=20 your chest before sumbody got outa hand and slung another spittoon at = the mirror=20 over the bar. Them spittoons look sorta weird spinning and perambulating = acroos=20 the room, wad with stuf and snuff coming outa the top and that funny = curve ball=20 path the spin puts on one side.I was looking in the mirror as one = came from=20 behind over my shoulder. Talk about a strange sight  Course it = helps when=20 you got a jug of Mezcal to sorta keep the flies off you. A true = scientist gotta=20 know his limitations when those toroids and pions go whizzin by your = ear.=20 Whoops, sumbody done shot a hole in my sombero and flattened the bullet = against=20 my hat band conch 'dobe dollar. Kinda made me see stars and rung my Beta = bell.
Lemme outa here where I can get back to some just plain ole grits = and=20 fatback.
 
Richard
------=_NextPart_001_000B_01C64027.8C8386D0-- ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C64027.8C8386D0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000901c64059$d6fade70$58037841@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C64027.8C8386D0-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 5 06:01:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25E10fZ005422; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 06:01:01 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k25E0wr7005365; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 06:00:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 06:00:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=UIjNtYqcAhAJbvfFbUX3rQ0lErDPqTUPNG7g7OKI79rb48Vf4NfhrcFIpyAj5RZ8; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <411-2200630514042844@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Toroidal electron Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 07:00:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9406c03d9422ed20600b7c35197bd58860b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.229 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66778 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII All a MATTER Of OpiniOn Richard. MOOt pOint. Just sidle up to the Bar and order sarsaparilla. with a 3.2 Lone Star chaser You'll be okay in a little bit. :-) Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: RC Macaulay To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 3/5/2006 6:37:36 AM Subject: Re: Toroidal electron Fred wote.. Are you are puffing on that Havana Tampa and blowing WHO R U? Toroids, while Frank is sniffing the volatile vapors from a can of Beta Ether? ....Hmmm. :-) Let me say that the disk/flat-washer particle is merely a section of a torus, or a torus flattened out by the enormous beta ether pressure. Howdy Fred, I wuz hoping you'd come stepping into the cantina wid dat badge on your chest before sumbody got outa hand and slung another spittoon at the mirror over the bar. Them spittoons look sorta weird spinning and perambulating acroos the room, wad with stuf and snuff coming outa the top and that funny curve ball path the spin puts on one side.I was looking in the mirror as one came from behind over my shoulder. Talk about a strange sight Course it helps when you got a jug of Mezcal to sorta keep the flies off you. A true scientist gotta know his limitations when those toroids and pions go whizzin by your ear. Whoops, sumbody done shot a hole in my sombero and flattened the bullet against my hat band conch 'dobe dollar. Kinda made me see stars and rung my Beta bell. Lemme outa here where I can get back to some just plain ole grits and fatback. Richard ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Blank
All a MATTER  Of OpiniOn Richard. MOOt pOint.
 
Just sidle up to the Bar and order sarsaparilla. with a 3.2 Lone Star chaser 
 
You'll be okay in a little bit. :-)
 
Fred
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 3/5/2006 6:37:36 AM
Subject: Re: Toroidal electron

Fred wote..
Are you are puffing on that Havana Tampa and blowing
WHO R U? Toroids, while Frank is sniffing the volatile vapors
from a can of Beta Ether? ....Hmmm.  :-)
 
Let me say that the disk/flat-washer particle is merely a section
of a torus, or a torus flattened out by the enormous beta ether pressure.
 
Howdy Fred,
 
I wuz hoping you'd come stepping into the cantina wid dat badge on your chest before sumbody got outa hand and slung another spittoon at the mirror over the bar. Them spittoons look sorta weird spinning and perambulating acroos the room, wad with stuf and snuff coming outa the top and that funny curve ball path the spin puts on one side.I was looking in the mirror as one came from behind over my shoulder. Talk about a strange sight  Course it helps when you got a jug of Mezcal to sorta keep the flies off you. A true scientist gotta know his limitations when those toroids and pions go whizzin by your ear. Whoops, sumbody done shot a hole in my sombero and flattened the bullet against my hat band conch 'dobe dollar. Kinda made me see stars and rung my Beta bell.
Lemme outa here where I can get back to some just plain ole grits and fatback.
 
Richard
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- ------=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: Blank Bkgrd.gif Content-Id: <410-22006305140403001@13071999> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 5 09:16:37 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25HGNmW011205; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 09:16:24 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k25HGLE9011177; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 09:16:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 09:16:21 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060305171612863.D2D733C00090@mwinf3212.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060305171614.009cc4d0@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2006 17:16:14 +0000 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Toroidal electron Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66780 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 05:47 am 05/03/2006 -0700, Fred wrote: >Are you are puffing on that Havana Tampa and blowing >WHO R U? Toroids, while Frank is sniffing the volatile vapors >from a can of Beta Ether? ....Hmmm. :-) A highly distilled version of the total alphabet "Ether" which is why it is Beta (pronounced Better) and far more intoxicating. ;-) Frank From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 5 09:35:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25HFOpP009818; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 09:15:25 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k25HFMad009739; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 09:15:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 09:15:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <008e01c64078$61192990$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: "vortex-l" References: <410-22006305124759679@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Toroidal electron Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 18:15:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0609-3, 03/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66779 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A question, what does the torus or washer shape turn into once the electron breaks free of its nucleus? Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 1:47 PM Subject: Re: Toroidal electron > Robin wrote: > Snip. >> >> This is for a solid torus, and I'm not sure whether the mass is >> inside, on, or outside the torus. Nevertheless, taking it at face >> value, one would only get a difference in angular momentum of 2 >> parts in a billion, assuming a torus with the dimensions given, >> and I think that's probably near the limit of current measurements >> anyway. >> > Are you are puffing on that Havana Tampa and blowing > WHO R U? Toroids, while Frank is sniffing the volatile vapors > from a can of Beta Ether? ....Hmmm. :-) > > Let me say that the disk/flat-washer particle is merely a section > of a torus, or a torus flattened out by the enormous beta ether pressure. > > One can do some calculating based on lineal permeability (uo) and > permittivity > (eo) of space and the energy contained in a particle. > > For the electron-positron or pion: L = hc*uo/E and C = hc*eo/E > Z ~ = Zo = (L/C)^1/2 ~ = 377 ohms T = h/E > q = +/- 1.602e-19 coulombs, (the sign is merely a 180 degree phase > conjugate of y = sin x.) > > E = 1/2 CV^2 V = (E/.5C)^1/2 = 8.7e4 Volts > Internal Displacement Current I = q*E/h = 19.7 amperes. > > IOW, will your proposed Toroidal Electron "ring/oscillate" like a resonant > LC (tank?) > circuit any better than the Loop/Disk Particle, that the String Theory > advocates, > came up with? > > Or does the Superconducting Torus that will "Ring" for decades > do any better than a much simpler SC washer? > > Fred From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 5 10:34:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25IY8ux019213; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 10:34:08 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k25IY6bt019195; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 10:34:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 10:34:06 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=EbVi3y5Lj2RC2psFCEQrDdcK3jtTWon99RUhcxhumQYuMu9ArOfshTAr4ygNflZo; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006305183359177@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Toroidal electron Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:33:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94048425f9a2ba2539d0dee65f3794c2fce350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.165.42 Resent-Message-ID: <3JdLOB.A.3rE.e8yCEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66781 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michel Jullian writes. > > A question, what does the torus or washer shape turn into once the electron > breaks free of its nucleus? It should retain it's "shape" as evidenced by smashing into the phosphor of your TV picture tube over and over, Michel. J-Lab's electron beams are pushed up to 8 GeV or more http://www.jlab.org/ "Secretary of Energy Announces Approval and Funding for 12 GeV Upgrade U.S. Secretary of Energy Samuel W. Bodman announced that President Bush's budget request includes $7 million for the next phase of the 12 GeV Upgrade. By doubling the energy of the electron beam, adding a new experimental hall, and upgrading the scientific capability of the three existing halls, the 12 GeV Upgrade will provide a compelling research program in nuclear physics that will allow for a far deeper and more fundamental understanding of the structure of atomic nuclei" Need I say more? OTOH, I am somewhat disturbed by Richard Macaulay's description of what he saw during his intrusion of a Houston "Cantina" on Ladies Night. :-) Fred > > Michel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frederick Sparber" > To: "vortex-l" > Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 1:47 PM > Subject: Re: Toroidal electron > > > > Robin wrote: > > Snip. > >> > >> This is for a solid torus, and I'm not sure whether the mass is > >> inside, on, or outside the torus. Nevertheless, taking it at face > >> value, one would only get a difference in angular momentum of 2 > >> parts in a billion, assuming a torus with the dimensions given, > >> and I think that's probably near the limit of current measurements > >> anyway. > >> > > Are you are puffing on that Havana Tampa and blowing > > WHO R U? Toroids, while Frank is sniffing the volatile vapors > > from a can of Beta Ether? ....Hmmm. :-) > > > > Let me say that the disk/flat-washer particle is merely a section > > of a torus, or a torus flattened out by the enormous beta ether pressure. > > > > One can do some calculating based on lineal permeability (uo) and > > permittivity > > (eo) of space and the energy contained in a particle. > > > > For the electron-positron or pion: L = hc*uo/E and C = hc*eo/E > > Z ~ = Zo = (L/C)^1/2 ~ = 377 ohms T = h/E > > q = +/- 1.602e-19 coulombs, (the sign is merely a 180 degree phase > > conjugate of y = sin x.) > > > > E = 1/2 CV^2 V = (E/.5C)^1/2 = 8.7e4 Volts > > Internal Displacement Current I = q*E/h = 19.7 amperes. > > > > IOW, will your proposed Toroidal Electron "ring/oscillate" like a resonant > > LC (tank?) > > circuit any better than the Loop/Disk Particle, that the String Theory > > advocates, > > came up with? > > > > Or does the Superconducting Torus that will "Ring" for decades > > do any better than a much simpler SC washer? > > > > Fred > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 5 11:02:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25J2eEa032002; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:02:40 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k25J2cJf031981; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:02:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:02:38 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00a601c64087$5e367e30$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-22006305183359177@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Toroidal electron Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 20:02:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0609-3, 03/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66782 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mmm, but then the torus or washer diameter of the free electron would depend on the diameter of the orbit it comes from so there would be several types of free electrons, of various diameters... It seems to me the warped washer or torus shape only makes sense when orbiting around a nucleus, where it would nicely replace a location probability distribution for a point charge by a continuous charge cloud of the same shape and density distribution. A worm or corkscrew shape might be more universal as it could go straight when flying across a CRT tube, and curve itself around its orbit when orbiting. What would be wrong with a more classical looking ball shape BTW? Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 7:33 PM Subject: Re: Toroidal electron > Michel Jullian writes. >> >> A question, what does the torus or washer shape turn into once the > electron >> breaks free of its nucleus? > > It should retain it's "shape" as evidenced by smashing into the > phosphor of your TV picture tube over and over, Michel. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 5 12:43:53 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25KhA4t013468; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:43:11 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k25Kh7RX013443; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:43:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:43:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Toroidal electron Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 07:43:02 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <410-22006305183359177@earthlink.net> <00a601c64087$5e367e30$3800a8c0@zothan> In-Reply-To: <00a601c64087$5e367e30$3800a8c0@zothan> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta04ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sun, 5 Mar 2006 20:43:01 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k25Kh11I013393 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66783 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Michel Jullian's message of Sun, 5 Mar 2006 20:02:12 +0100: Hi, [snip] >Mmm, but then the torus or washer diameter of the free electron would depend >on the diameter of the orbit it comes from so there would be several types >of free electrons, of various diameters... I suspect that it would expand slightly upon leaving an atom, to a size determined by fundamental constants such as the beta-aether pressure. > >It seems to me the warped washer or torus shape only makes sense when >orbiting around a nucleus, where it would nicely replace a location >probability distribution for a point charge by a continuous charge cloud of >the same shape and density distribution. A worm or corkscrew shape might be >more universal as it could go straight when flying across a CRT tube, and >curve itself around its orbit when orbiting. When the toroid opens up to a helix it loses it's charge and becomes simply a circularly polarized photon. This provides the definition of charge. 1 torus = 1 unit of charge (irrespective of size of torus, i.e. irrespective of mass). Alternatively, when a circularly polarized photon wraps around and connects with it's own tail, it becomes a charged particle. This is the essence of positron/electron pair production. > >What would be wrong with a more classical looking ball shape BTW? Different speeds at different points on the surface, IOW "hairy ball" problem. Motion vectors would either "collide" somewhere on the surface if all speeds were equal, or if all vectors are parallel, then they must of necessity be different in magnitude. With a torus, this problem doesn't arise. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 5 12:57:50 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25KmT14015957; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:48:30 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k25KmPJm015916; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:48:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:48:25 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Toroidal electron Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 07:48:18 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <410-22006305183359177@earthlink.net> <00a601c64087$5e367e30$3800a8c0@zothan> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta01ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sun, 5 Mar 2006 20:48:17 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k25KmJMP015857 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66784 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Robin van Spaandonk's message of Mon, 06 Mar 2006 07:43:02 +1100: Hi, [snip] >Alternatively, when a circularly polarized photon wraps around and >connects with it's own tail, it becomes a charged particle. This >is the essence of positron/electron pair production. [snip] BTW the consequence of this is that conservation of charge is actually conservation of angular momentum. Mirror image particles are produced concurrently. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 5 13:11:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25LA5fD025723; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:10:45 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k25KusaZ019738; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:56:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:56:54 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Pions Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 07:56:41 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta01ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sun, 5 Mar 2006 20:56:40 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k25KufRP019631 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66785 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Robin van Spaandonk's message of Sun, 05 Mar 2006 17:41:51 +1100: Hi, [snip] >((me*c^2)/alpha)*2)-me*c^2=139.54 MeV > >Stack 1/alpha toroidal electrons into a cylinder, itself wrapped >into a torus, with a charge of -1. Bind two such together and >remove a single electron, and you end up with a pion. Now what if >the externally measured charge largely self cancels when the >cylinder is wrapped into a torus? [snip] Two electron toroids -> 1 negative pion Two positron toroids -> 1 positive pion One of each -> 1 neutral pion with a very short half life before the electrons and positrons start annihilating one another. Two toroids together = 1 new toroid with a charge of 1. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 5 13:21:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25L4aXU023028; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:04:37 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k25L4Wrh022989; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:04:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:04:32 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <440B5253.9050507@pobox.com> Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2006 16:04:19 -0500 From: "Stephen A. Lawrence" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20060202 Fedora/1.7.12-1.5.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: OT: Looks like it's over, folks. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66786 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Read it and deny it, or read it and weep, there's no third alternative: http://context.themoscowtimes.com/story/166395/ Summary: Careful examination of the Diebold paperless machines has shown that they are, if anything, less secure and more unreliable than previously thought. But, as a result of a recent decision by the California Secretary of State, California will be using them statewide in the 2008 presidential election. The Dems can't win unless they carry California. Therefore ... the outcome of the next presidential election has _already_ been decided. Comments to the effect that it just ain't so will be most welcome, if they're convincing.... (The Moscow Times is an English-language paper published in Moscow. Its content is distributed free online. I was not previously familiar with it (this link was emailed to us) but my impression, after a quick Google search, is that they're apparently on the up-and-up; there's no particular reason to think the article isn't sincere and most likely accurate.) From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 5 13:22:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25LCGON026944; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:12:16 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k25LCDRJ026895; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:12:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 13:12:13 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=qzNQOudzSBuv7i16uKY6r3q2lM4Zs9Ozs/6BheWXyRK22BMAVCyGwVqGfTRiob4S; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006305211145605@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Toroidal electron Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 14:11:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940e6d36288243669a217e27b8b1f33216e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.165.57 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66787 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michel Jullian wrote: > > Mmm, but then the torus or washer diameter of the free electron would depend > on the diameter of the orbit it comes from so there would be several types > of free electrons, of various diameters... Of special interest, Michel is when the radioactive nucleus ejects an electron in Beta minus decay, or absorbs a K shell electron. In order to fit into the nuclear (neutron) diameter hc/(0.33*Eneutron) from it's rest diameter hc/(Ee-) it has to shrink by as much as 600 times it's rest diameter. The opposite occurs for positron (Beta +) emission. My approach on this is to treat mvr = h/2(pi) of the electron and the three "loops/disk" particles in the proton as interacting "electromagnetic flywheels" that share energy/mass and change diameter through electromagnetic energy exchange, thus conserving energy and momentum. Mechanically analogous to coupling a stationary flywheel to one that is rotating. > > It seems to me the warped washer or torus shape only makes sense when > orbiting around a nucleus, where it would nicely replace a location > probability distribution for a point charge by a continuous charge cloud of > the same shape and density distribution. A good point, but remember that the electron diameter ~ 2.436e-12 meters is about 22 times smaller than the 5.29e-11 meter Bohr Radius giving it room for rattling around. > > A worm or corkscrew shape might be > more universal as it could go straight when flying across a CRT tube, and > curve itself around its orbit when orbiting. 20 to 30 KeV energy in a CRT pales in comparison to the 510 KeV rest mass/energy of the electron. No? > > What would be wrong with a more classical looking ball shape BTW? The classical visualization based on solar system models doesn't square with the moment of inertia ( I ) doesn't fit mvr = h/2(pi) = (I)* 2(pi)f Although close, not close enough if you're a purest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_moments_of_inertia Best Fred > > Michel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frederick Sparber" > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 7:33 PM > Subject: Re: Toroidal electron > > > > Michel Jullian writes. > >> > >> A question, what does the torus or washer shape turn into once the > > electron > >> breaks free of its nucleus? > > > > It should retain it's "shape" as evidenced by smashing into the > > phosphor of your TV picture tube over and over, Michel. > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 5 14:04:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25M4CtM018957; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 14:04:12 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k25M4AkK018941; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 14:04:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 14:04:10 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: OT: Looks like it's over, folks. Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 09:04:09 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <440B5253.9050507@pobox.com> In-Reply-To: <440B5253.9050507@pobox.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta03ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sun, 5 Mar 2006 22:04:08 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k25M48Ng018906 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66788 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Stephen A. Lawrence's message of Sun, 05 Mar 2006 16:04:19 -0500: Hi, [snip] >Read it and deny it, or read it and weep, there's no third alternative: > >http://context.themoscowtimes.com/story/166395/ [snip] Actually, there is a legal alternative, already earlier proposed by someone on this list I believe - use an absentee ballot. These are on paper, and can't be rigged (they can however get "lost"). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 5 14:30:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k25MU8NH030761; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 14:30:09 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k25MU7Y5030734; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 14:30:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 14:30:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2006 17:29:59 -0500 Message-Id: <8C80EBB78EF034B-1200-164B4@mblkn-m14.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <440B5253.9050507@pobox.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <440B5253.9050507@pobox.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: OT: Looks like it's over, folks. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.132 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k25MU5Oh030719 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66789 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Stephen A. Lawrence http://context.themoscowtimes.com/story/166395/ ]\ <><><><><><> Without doubt, an objective source. T ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 5 16:05:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2604xJH007087; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 16:04:59 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2604v1R007078; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 16:04:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 16:04:57 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=HEyPazPCcf3xFgkm7TdcO/9BClkAM4LJPVGzbFqpu9/cK7CyVbgyk9AyQZgoT1C7sbeTJzcQdw2BoKQwyxEd8M/DmJ0BM/BOgnZvSJZ5rkaIUq8iWjrolgIRo7tRv92SVJmbDhVCYPPVHVrqDpvKxsS9aEH7ylk9Io1dLuWxxPY= Message-ID: Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:04:52 -0700 From: "leaking pen" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: OT: Looks like it's over, folks. In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_5064_5543947.1141603492366" References: <440B5253.9050507@pobox.com> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66790 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_Part_5064_5543947.1141603492366 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline actually, they get scanned into a machine, similar to the touch screen, and theres evidence that the count was rigged in ohio for those too. unfortunately, teh ballots were sealed under court order, and therefore wer= e not able to be recounted by hand, as almost happened in florida in 2k On 3/5/06, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > In reply to Stephen A. Lawrence's message of Sun, 05 Mar 2006 > 16:04:19 -0500: > Hi, > [snip] > >Read it and deny it, or read it and weep, there's no third alternative: > > > >http://context.themoscowtimes.com/story/166395/ > [snip] > Actually, there is a legal alternative, already earlier proposed > by someone on this list I believe - use an absentee ballot. These > are on paper, and can't be rigged (they can however get "lost"). > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ > > Competition provides the motivation, > Cooperation provides the means. > > -- "Monsieur l'abb=E9, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to ma= ke it possible for you to continue to write" Voltaire ------=_Part_5064_5543947.1141603492366 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline actually, they get scanned into a machine, similar to the touch screen, and= theres evidence that the count was rigged in ohio for those too.  unf= ortunately, teh ballots were sealed under court order, and therefore were n= ot able to be recounted by hand, as almost happened in florida in 2k

On 3/5/06, R= obin van Spaandonk <rvans= paa@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
In reply to  Stephen A= . Lawrence's message of Sun, 05 Mar 2006
16:04:19 -0500:
Hi,
[snip= ]
>Read it and deny it, or read it and weep, there's no third alterna= tive:
>
>http://context.themoscowtimes.com/story/166395/
[snip]
Actually,= there is a legal alternative, already earlier proposed
by someone on th= is list I believe - use an absentee ballot. These
are on paper, and can't be rigged (they can however get "lost"= ;).

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

Competition provides the motivation,
Cooperation provides the means.=




--
"Monsieur = l'abb=E9, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it poss= ible for you to continue to write"  Voltaire=20 ------=_Part_5064_5543947.1141603492366-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 5 17:15:04 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k261EnSp010426; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:14:50 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k261ElcZ010395; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:14:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:14:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: OT: Looks like it's over, folks. Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 12:14:40 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <440B5253.9050507@pobox.com> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta03ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Mon, 6 Mar 2006 01:14:40 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k261Eevs010350 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66791 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to leaking pen's message of Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:04:52 -0700: Hi, [snip] >actually, they get scanned into a machine, similar to the touch screen, and >theres evidence that the count was rigged in ohio for those too. >unfortunately, teh ballots were sealed under court order, and therefore were >not able to be recounted by hand, as almost happened in florida in 2k [snip] Then whoever said it might be time for another revolution may have been correct. I suspect that when the discrepancy between reality and what is reported gets too great, there will be one anyway. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 5 17:40:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k261eIiO022626; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:40:19 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k261eGPH022585; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:40:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:40:16 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <002a01c640be$e2c14a40$f7027841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: Re: Toroid electron Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 19:40:00 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0026_01C6408C.97A35260" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2005-06-05) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.5 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66792 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C6408C.97A35260 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0027_01C6408C.97A35260" ------=_NextPart_001_0027_01C6408C.97A35260 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank Fred wrote.. >OTOH, I am somewhat disturbed by Richard Macaulay's description of what = he saw. during his intrusion of a Houston "Cantina" on Ladies Night Richard wrote >Them spittoons look sorta weird spinning and perambulating acroos the = room, wad with stuf and snuff coming outa the top and that funny curve = ball path the spin puts on one side.I was looking in the mirror as one = came from behind over my shoulder. Talk about a strange sight Course it = helps when you got a jug of Mezcal to sorta keep the flies off you.=20 Howdy Fred,=20 You sure are an observing cuss. The toroid should actually be " spittoon = shaped". Of course we must think in the abstract because we would never = be observing the real event. What we see is an " image" which is like = looking in a mirror at the event behind us. This simple fact continues = to elude most of the very best theoritical physicists. Don't worry about = that worm in your bottle of Mezcal. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0027_01C6408C.97A35260 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
 
 Fred wrote..
>OTOH, I am somewhat disturbed by Richard Macaulay's description = of what=20 he
saw. during his intrusion of a Houston "Cantina" on Ladies=20 Night
 
 
Richard wrote
>Them spittoons look sorta weird spinning and perambulating = acroos the=20 room, wad with stuf and snuff coming outa the top and that funny curve = ball path=20 the spin puts on one side.I was looking in the mirror as one came = from=20 behind over my shoulder. Talk about a strange sight  Course it = helps when=20 you got a jug of Mezcal to sorta keep the flies off you.

Howdy Fred,

You sure are an observing cuss. The toroid should actually be " = spittoon=20 shaped". Of course we must think in the abstract because we would = never be=20 observing the real event. What we see is an " image"  which is like = looking=20 in a mirror at the event behind us. This simple fact continues to elude = most of=20 the very best theoritical physicists. Don't worry about that worm in = your bottle=20 of Mezcal.

Richard

------=_NextPart_001_0027_01C6408C.97A35260-- ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C6408C.97A35260 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <002501c640be$e22cf980$f7027841@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C6408C.97A35260-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 5 18:17:14 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k262GmiX008194; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 18:16:48 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k262GjLt008171; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 18:16:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 18:16:45 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <440B9B82.40002@pobox.com> Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2006 21:16:34 -0500 From: "Stephen A. Lawrence" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20060202 Fedora/1.7.12-1.5.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: OT: Looks like it's over, folks. References: <440B5253.9050507@pobox.com> <8C80EBB78EF034B-1200-164B4@mblkn-m14.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C80EBB78EF034B-1200-164B4@mblkn-m14.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66793 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Stephen A. Lawrence > > http://context.themoscowtimes.com/story/166395/ ]\ > > <><><><><><> > > Without doubt, an objective source. Hah! Hardly! :-) But on the other hand a quick check didn't show that they're apparently a whole lot more biased than any of the more "mainstream" news sources, and according to Wikipedia they're a lot more independent of the Govt. than most Russian sources. (Is that saying much? Not sure.) It seems they only publish in English, they're mostly only read by expatriate Americans, and the government doesn't pay much attention to them as a result. But in any case the main point is a matter of fact which they're reporting: the selection of the Diebold system by the CA Secretary of State. It's possible they simply made it up (I hope so!) but that doesn't seem likely to me. They referenced an L.A. Times article as well, which is probably the original source of the story, but I haven't got an account with the L.A. Times and so couldn't read it, and haven't done any further digging along those lines. > > T > ___________________________________________________ > Try the New Netscape Mail Today! > Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List > http://mail.netscape.com > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 5 18:27:01 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k262QVGM013021; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 18:26:32 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k262QRdJ012974; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 18:26:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 18:26:27 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <440B9DC5.5020903@pobox.com> Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2006 21:26:13 -0500 From: "Stephen A. Lawrence" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20060202 Fedora/1.7.12-1.5.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: OT: Looks like it's over, folks. References: <440B5253.9050507@pobox.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <-eZ-9B.A.hKD.S35CEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66794 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: leaking pen wrote: > actually, they get scanned into a machine, similar to the touch screen, > and theres evidence that the count was rigged in ohio for those too. > unfortunately, teh ballots were sealed under court order, and therefore > were not able to be recounted by hand, as almost happened in florida in 2k [IIRC.... it's been a while since it all happened...] The Greens paid for a recount in Ohio but under Ohio state law, if certain conditions are met in a particular county (test ballots chosen randomly from I-forget-what percentage of the voters are not prepped, are just fed into the machine "as is", and the reject/misread rate in the test run is below a certain threshold) the recount for that county will be done by machine, not by hand. The recounters in every county worked very hard to assure that the conditions were "met", going far beyond the call of duty, even to the point of hand-selecting test ballots from hand-picked precincts rather than letting randomness bias the results and to the extent of carefully prepping and sorting the ballots in the test runs before feeding them to the machines in order to avoid any errors. :-( I don't think any county was actually hand-recounted as a result. And of course the recount in New Mexico ran out of time and the machines were reset before it happened. > > On 3/5/06, *Robin van Spaandonk* > wrote: > > In reply to Stephen A. Lawrence's message of Sun, 05 Mar 2006 > 16:04:19 -0500: > Hi, > [snip] > >Read it and deny it, or read it and weep, there's no third > alternative: > > > >http://context.themoscowtimes.com/story/166395/ > [snip] > Actually, there is a legal alternative, already earlier proposed > by someone on this list I believe - use an absentee ballot. These > are on paper, and can't be rigged (they can however get "lost"). > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ > > Competition provides the motivation, > Cooperation provides the means. > > > > > -- > "Monsieur l'abbé, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to > make it possible for you to continue to write" Voltaire From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 5 19:15:41 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k263FLE2005368; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 19:15:22 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k263FIBw005325; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 19:15:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 19:15:18 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2006 22:15:12 -0500 Message-Id: <8C80EE350E51F0B-1BB4-49A7@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <002a01c640be$e2c14a40$f7027841@xptower> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <002a01c640be$e2c14a40$f7027841@xptower> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Toroid electron Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.65 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66795 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: RC Macaulay Don't worry about that worm in your bottle of Mezcal. <><><><><><> I always liked a bit of crunch in my catus juice! Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 3 13:23:20 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k23LN6Bn013681; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 13:23:07 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k23LN4Gc013657; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 13:23:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 13:23:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:Cc:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=u5L4Ivv810mHhOI3thEjbm9RZ8VVC5Ynv8cr4H0a34+tHZ4oP3WgKQsB7ZFRTnWC5qm0erKXWkdyxIdXxTyDrv7odhZXHNz4+CbysJPMHvTdShzUXvppDtwnPs9ic9oP158Duk2B/ISeV0caBaSiTeM+2BFK5lGguQ+5KEbUoFE= ; Message-ID: <033b01c63f08$a418ba10$4b01a8c0@colin5fc9e2583> Reply-To: "Colin Quinney" From: "Colin Quinney" To: Cc: References: <8C80C896EB1A288-D48-8F7A@mblkn-m08.sysops.aol.com> <02f701c63ed9$d9c52880$4b01a8c0@colin5fc9e2583> <8C80CF618F702A4-1048-3942@mblkn-m04.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: Stirring Syrup Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 16:22:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0338_01C63EDE.BAE35400" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 Resent-Message-ID: <2ghzaD.A.VVD.4OLCEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66753 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends5 Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0338_01C63EDE.BAE35400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Not too many folks are aware of the Aspden effect.=20 Anyway, thanks again. The effect was "troubling" me in the sense that I = did not intuit why "both" directions worked, until you posted. Your = analogy allows me to feel the Aspden effect from a perspective that's = now fitting. That re-start effect with Aspden's motor was originally = confusing because one expects the re-start force's preferred angular = momentum should be in the same direction as the preceding direction.=20 Or perhaps in the opposite direction as was suggested by a related = mechanical/aether effect- the 1998 Harvey Morgan Experiment (IEEE = paper).) It did not use rotating magnet flywheels. It used lead (Pb) = flywheels. http://www.padrak.com/ine/NEN_5_11_9.html http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/3354/kedrickbrown.html If the Morgan experiment is replicated, it indicates a "reaction" = counter-angular force NOT with the primary flywheel, but nearby- in a = secondary (spin-field detecting) flywheel that is adjacent to the = primary flywheel, whose (non-contiguous) axle is in-line. A wind break = or wind barrier must be utilized between the two flywheels. IOW- The Morgan effect, if true, may only be a related aether effect. A = study of not only aether viscosity but spin dynamics of fluids in motion = may then explain both effects quite well. (Viscosity & vortex). If these forces can be modelled in any way as gravito-magnetic forces, = then I strongly suspect that they are many orders of magnitude beyond = what current theory predicts. Something is therefore fishy. I wonder if = Beta-atm can explain both effects? Colin ----- Original Message -----=20 From: To: Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 11:24 AM Subject: Re: Stirring Syrup It has to be a Beta-atm or aether "viscosity" change because, when you=20 do the Aspden re-start, regardless of which way it first turned, it=20 takes less energy on the second turnup whether it's clockwise or=20 windershins!!! Terry ------=_NextPart_000_0338_01C63EDE.BAE35400 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Not too many folks are aware of the = Aspden effect.=20
 
Anyway, thanks again. The effect was = "troubling" me=20 in the sense that I did not intuit why "both" directions worked, until = you=20 posted. Your analogy allows me = to feel the=20 Aspden effect from a perspective that's now=20 fitting. That re-start effect = with Aspden's=20 motor was originally confusing because one expects the re-start = force's=20 preferred angular momentum should be in the same direction as the = preceding=20 direction. 
 
Or perhaps in the opposite direction as = was=20 suggested by a related mechanical/aether effect- the 1998 Harvey = Morgan=20 Experiment (IEEE paper).) It did not use rotating magnet flywheels. It = used lead=20 (Pb) flywheels.
 
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/3354/kedrickbrown.htm= l
 
If the Morgan experiment is = replicated, it indicates a "reaction" counter-angular = force NOT=20 with the primary flywheel, but nearby-   in a secondary=20 (spin-field detecting) flywheel that is adjacent to the = primary=20 flywheel, whose (non-contiguous) axle is in-line. A wind break or = wind=20 barrier must be utilized between the two flywheels.
 
IOW- The Morgan effect, if true, may = only be a=20 related aether effect. A study = of not only=20 aether viscosity but spin dynamics of fluids in motion may then = explain=20 both effects quite well. (Viscosity & vortex).
 
If these forces can be modelled in = any way as=20 gravito-magnetic forces, then I strongly suspect that they are many = orders of=20 magnitude beyond what current theory predicts. Something is therefore = fishy. I=20 wonder if Beta-atm can explain both effects?
 
Colin
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: <hohlrauml6d@netscape.net>
To: <crquin@rogers.com>
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 11:24 = AM
Subject: Re: Stirring = Syrup

It has to be a Beta-atm or aether "viscosity" = change=20 because, when you
do the Aspden re-start, regardless of which way it = first=20 turned, it
takes less energy on the second turnup whether it's = clockwise or=20
windershins!!!

Terry
------=_NextPart_000_0338_01C63EDE.BAE35400-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 6 01:34:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k269Y2NF010031; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 01:34:02 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k269XxMX009993; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 01:33:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 01:33:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060306084825703.112581C00088@mwinf3007.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060306084826.0097eed4@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 08:48:26 +0000 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: The Aspden Revelation Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66796 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I can now see that the Aspden Effect is evidence of something I thought I would never find, i.e. evidence of the polarization of mass; to be more specific, evidence of the polarisation of mass's denominator term, inertia. There are two ways of changing the value of set, changing the numerator number, the group unit, or changing the denominator, the group universe. Take a pile of one hundred silver dollars for example. One can double the value of the unit pile by adding another one hundred dollars. One can also double the value of the pile by taking half the silver out of circulation and dumping it on the sun. Likewise with mass. One can double the mass of a bunch of ten bananas by adding another 10 bananas (increasing the numerator), and one can double the mass of a bunch of ten bananas by reducing the reciprocal-inertia (increasing the denominator). Inertia is resistance to change in velocity. I'm not aware of a word for reciprocal-inertia. Electrical engineers have a rather neat pairs of words expressing the same idea, e.g. reluctance and compliance, so I need a synonym for compliance. Having consulted the online Thesaurus I have chosen the word assistance. Assistance = 1 / Inertia Now in the Building Research Establishment Note 103/87 I showed that the Assistance (reciprocal of mass) of a body was simply a manifestation of internal closed path velocity. On page 13 of the Note (which you will find on the Beta-atmosphere Yahoo site) I wrote, ---------------------------------------- "In effect, inertial substances are seen as active, not passive, as containing servo-mechanisms, force amplifiers. The energy put into accelerating a body is proportional to but, at non- relativistic speeds, a minute fraction of the total energy required to overcome inertial effects..." ---------------------------------------- If we apply an x-axis stress a body we are only adding to the B-atm. stress already on that body as the [PV^6 = a constant] relation for water demonstrates. The energy we need to supply to strain a body is only the difference between the hierarchically summed contraction and expansion of that body. In other words the difference between the strain energy put into the body by [B-atm. + applied stress] compression along the x-axis, and the strain energy put into the B-atm. by the expansion of the body along the y- and z-axis. Since strain is ultimately a manifestation of fine scale internal motion, one can see that the internal motion is polarised when a body is stressed anisotropically. This means that we must be able to polarise Inertia - to decrease assistance in one direction by increasing it in the other two orthogonal directions. Now I could see that one can easily demonstrate how to increase the rotational inertia of a body but couldn't see how to reduce it - a much more interesting proposition. Similarly, there is much more potential in decreasing the electrical resistance of a wire than increasing it - in other words increasing the Conductance (Assistance) rather than increasing the Resistance (Inertia) The Aspden effect has given us experimental evidence that one can indeed increase the Assistance - reduce the Inertia of a body. I'm sure that Vorts are intelligent enough to see that this has profound implications for technology [not to mention physical theory 8-) ]. The crucial clue given by the Aspden effect is, of course, that it works in either direction. I will now explain how by increasing the Inertia [reducing the Assistance] of a body by adding internal closed path motion, one can at the same time polarise the Inertia [polarise the Assistance] of that body. Consider a Black Box containing the running flywheels shown in the following illustration. http://www.grimer2.freeserve.co.uk/pge25.htm [For effort conservation I am using a diagram I have used before 8-) ] The figure shows four flywheels on axles sprouting out from a central plate but for our purposes let's increase this to 64 say with the odd flywheels revolving clockwise and the even flywheels revolving widdershins. If one rotates the Black Box about an axis perpendicular to the flywheel axes one will experience an enormous resistance to rotation - an enormous Inertia. The flywheels try to twist up and down alternately but because the axles are rigidly attached to the stiff central plate they are prevented from so doing. If you gave a student a black box and asked him to explain why the box had a much greater inertia than its weight would suggest, he would find it rather a puzzle. No doubt he would think of a gyro, but without the twisting effect manifested by a single gyro he would be rather lost for an explanation. He wouldn't realise that the twisting had been absorbed by tiny twisting strains in the central plate. Substitute the plate with a sphere having [64x4pi.r^2/2pi] flywheels spouting out all over and one has a box with a "density" (as judged by its rotational inertia) far greater than any known engineering scale material. Now if the student opened the box he would see the flywheels and soon work out what was happening. But suppose one had not 64 flywheel but billions of flywheels far too small to see and rotating at incredible speeds. If the student opened that box he wouldn't have a clue as to what was going on. The situation would be comparable to giving Galileo a modern watch with the latest chip inside. So one can see that it is easy to increase inertia just as it is easy to increase Beta-atmosphere pressure as we did in our concrete experiments. But how does one reduce it. It took us a long time to realise that the secret is to increase it first in all directions and then reduce it differentially. By raising the ambient Beta-atmosphere pressure we gained complete control over our contribution and we could manipulate it in any way we wished. Now I have referred to the gyro type twisting of the flywheels as being absorbed by the strains in the stiff plate. But if we examine these strains closely enough we will find that they are effectively counter rotations on a very fine scale. In short, the torque at the macro-scale is being counteracted by a torque on the microscale. Strain looks at things globally: rotation looks at things locally. When we magnetize an object we freeze in a strain asymmetry, a hierarchal differentiation in torque. We can see this easily enough by considering the phenomena of magnetostriction. Apply the field, the iron strains asymmetrically; remove the field and the strain is removed. Permanent magnetization involves small scale torque balanced by large scale torque at the grain boundaries. The relaxation time for these torques is a function of their scale just as in the case of the flywheels and the plate strains. In the Aspden effect we have large scale torques which take time to build up and time to dissipate. That is essentially why the inertia is less when the thing has been running. The converse must also be true. It must be more when it has been stopped for a long time - but unless one had done a careful calculation as to what it should be based on its spatial distribution of material, it wouldn't have occurred to Aspden that he had a false datum. The anomaly he measured was the differential. Cheers, Frank Grimer From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 6 07:08:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26F8Wo4017317; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:08:32 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k26F8U3O017298; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:08:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:08:30 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=h1fyft9Xxmylf3OHvklx+nI3p0LFXqZAXJGezzefvI5ltLip9M5t/CMLRTp8dbYR; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200631615820560@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Toroidal electron Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:08:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94065db2108561e6c06793a4dc211e0786b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.83 Resent-Message-ID: <1Tjjz.A.OOE.tBFDEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66797 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII This interactive applet helps illustrate how a 1.02 MeV Photon with Frequency f = E/h can divide into an electron-positron pair each with half the photon energy and half it's frequency (twice wavelength or it's circumference) with the180 degree phase difference giving rise to their charge e+ and e-. http://www.mta.ca/faculty/science/physics/suren/Beats/Beats.html Is gravity the result of a beat note/s between the three particles two Q+ and one q- Net charge q+ net spin 1/2) making up the proton? ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
This interactive applet  helps illustrate how a 1.02 MeV Photon with
Frequency f = E/h can divide into an electron-positron pair each with
half the photon energy and half it's frequency  (twice wavelength or it's circumference)
with the180 degree phase difference giving rise to their charge e+ and e-.
 
 
Is gravity the result of a beat note/s between the three particles
two Q+ and one q-  Net charge q+ net spin 1/2) making up the proton? 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 6 08:50:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26GoWLQ009630; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:50:33 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k26GoSTM009537; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:50:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:50:28 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=C3lPYTY/YlV65fbYm7vWjBkP5wIrfBLQrVd7jjaY6ihWM33Dc+ILdleeF4kgolbW; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063161650949@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Toroidal electron Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:50:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940e245dd287a719691c65797749d76d536350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.41 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66798 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Great Applet Menu: http://www.mta.ca/faculty/science/physics/suren/Applets.html This Simple Harmonic Motion Applet shows how electron spin can result from a "shuttlecock" motion of a particle/wave. http://www.mta.ca/faculty/science/physics/suren/Shm/Shm01.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 3/6/2006 8:09:07 AM Subject: Re: Toroidal electron This interactive applet helps illustrate how a 1.02 MeV Photon with Frequency f = E/h can divide into an electron-positron pair each with half the photon energy and half it's frequency (twice wavelength or it's circumference) with the180 degree phase difference giving rise to their charge e+ and e-. http://www.mta.ca/faculty/science/physics/suren/Beats/Beats.html Is gravity the result of a beat note/s between the three particles two Q+ and one q- Net charge q+ net spin 1/2) making up the proton? ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Great Applet Menu:
 
 
This Simple Harmonic Motion Applet shows how electron spin
can result from a "shuttlecock" motion of a particle/wave.
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 3/6/2006 8:09:07 AM
Subject: Re: Toroidal electron

This interactive applet  helps illustrate how a 1.02 MeV Photon with
Frequency f = E/h can divide into an electron-positron pair each with
half the photon energy and half it's frequency  (twice wavelength or it's circumference)
with the180 degree phase difference giving rise to their charge e+ and e-.
 
 
Is gravity the result of a beat note/s between the three particles
two Q+ and one q-  Net charge q+ net spin 1/2) making up the proton? 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 6 09:50:02 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26Hj7aI010743; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:45:10 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k26Hj4Ea010687; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:45:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:45:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <006e01c64145$c2ec6920$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex-l" References: <410-220063161650949@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Toroidal electron Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:45:29 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: <2Abn4.A.6mC.eUHDEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66799 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred, >Great Applet Menu: http://www.mta.ca/faculty/science/physics/suren/Applets.html This Simple Harmonic Motion Applet shows how electron spin can result from a "shuttlecock" motion of a particle/wave. http://www.mta.ca/faculty/science/physics/suren/Shm/Shm01.html Yes, and if you go to the Liaajous applet: http://www.mta.ca/faculty/science/physics/suren/Lissajous/Lissajous.html Except now, take it to the next step by imagining that instead of the perfect figure eight liassajous, you have a the same basic form but offset by slightly by 1/137 so that only once in every 137 iterations does the tracing point return to its actual starting point... ...and then... .... if you take that mental image - which is basically a figure eight being spun on a wobbly axis, and merge the resulting smear into a real form - then you will end up with a composite of the Mill's orbitsphere, but not the exact one envisioned by either Robin or Mills ... yet I think it may be a very intuitive mental image. Mills' image is somewhat like a doubly truncated sphere - which is kind of brain-dead really (giving me pause to wonder at the guy's other assertions) since the implication is that there is so much asymmetry that it could not have gone unnoticed in the past. Anyway - I like this notion of a trapped-photon-smear on a lissajous trajectory, but like Frank Z, I am wondering if there is some kind of basic energy unit which fits the bill better than a photon?... or is that where Robin is going with the pion? IOW ... the electron were "just" a trapped photon equivalent, then why wouldn't we be able to tune an x-ray device (say a small fission reactor) into an electron "factory" by filtering and downshifting the higher energy gammas ? Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 6 10:17:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26IH5QF030759; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 10:17:06 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k26IH378030735; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 10:17:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 10:17:03 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060306131551.035767d8@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 13:16:52 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Discussion of CF on Slashdot Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66800 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: See: http://science.slashdot.org/science/06/03/06/124230.shtml This is attracting attention to LENR-CANR, which is how I discovered it. Someone is fighting the good fight. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 6 14:52:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k26MqV3p019514; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:52:31 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k26MqNkw019427; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:52:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:52:23 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <006001c64170$0b1c8980$d3239d04@oemcomputer> From: "Kyle Mcallister" To: References: <440B5253.9050507@pobox.com> Subject: Re: Looks like it's over, folks. Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 17:48:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66801 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen A. Lawrence" To: Sent: Sunday, 05 March, 2006 04:04 PM Subject: OT: Looks like it's over, folks. I think it is perhaps worth noting that had a Democrat been elected under the same circumstances in 2000, and then re-elected under the same circumstances in 2004, that there would have been none of this outcry of "stealing the White House" and that counts were rigged. Those who screamed "revote" in Florida would have been labeled as neo-con right wing extremists. The mass media's role would be handily reversed, always jumping at the defense of the president who's legal election was called into question. If the president is a Republican or Independent, it is a-ok however to make such arguments. Don't think this means I like Bush; I do not. I hated Kerry, I nearly detest Bush and Cheney, and there is not much other choice. It really sucks to not have anyone to vote for. On a different note: a coworker and I were discussing alternative fuels (like hydrogen) and such, at which he laughingly concluded the conversation by stating "Its not going to do me any good, so who really cares about what happens later. Lets just use up what we have left right now and the hell with it. Who cares." ...Needless to say, my day was pretty well trashed from that point on. --Kyle, your resident hopelessly hoping Independent From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 6 16:39:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k270dKWo008798; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 16:39:21 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k270dIMk008771; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 16:39:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 16:39:18 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=FTquyevw0xCvwuTXpMrVDk0g10rYahANKWwVyo8Eu4mIrTkV4Pr5NbSeTLL/2REo; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200632703913689@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Qualified Electronium Search Endorsement? Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 17:39:13 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940526f634cf54a91c2d1db6119e755d862350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.165.86 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66802 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII A phone call to an old friend, Professor Franklin M Propst evoked a (lukewarm ?) endorsement of the (*e-) (e- e+ e-) bound entity. http://kuchem.kyoto-u.ac.jp/hyoumen/Nishi/nishijima.html http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRB/v2/i7/p2368_1 Electron-Impact Desorption of Ions from Polycrystalline Tungsten Mitsuaki Nishijima* Coordinated Science Laboratory and Department of Electrical Engineering, University of Illinois, Urbana, Illinois 61801 Franklin M. Propst Coordinated Science Laboratory and Department of Physics, University of Illinois, Urbana, Illinois 61801 "A cylindrical magnetic spectrometer has been constructed to study the electron-impact desorption of ions and neutrals from solid surfaces. The instrument has high-energy resolution and sensitivity and allows the determination of the charge-to-mass ratio of the emitted ions. The apparatus has been applied to the study of polycrystalline tungsten with O2, CO, CO2, H2, N2, and H2O adsorbed. The ions which have been observed are O+ from O2/W, CO/W, and CO2/W; CO+ from CO/W; and H+ from H2/W and H2O/W. The ion energy distributions, ionic and total desorption cross sections, threshold energies, and other experimental results are presented and discussed." http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/servlet/GetabsServlet?prog=normal&id=JVSTAL000004000002000053000001&idtype=cvips&gifs=yes http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PR/v132/i3/p1037_1 Frank is going to send me the paper/s on the low energy electron mass spectrometer etc. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
A phone call to an old friend, Professor Franklin M  Propst evoked a (lukewarm ?)
endorsement of the (*e-)   (e- e+ e-)  bound  entity.
 
 
 

Electron-Impact Desorption of Ions from Polycrystalline Tungsten

Mitsuaki Nishijima*
Coordinated Science Laboratory and Department of Electrical Engineering, University of Illinois, Urbana, Illinois 61801
Franklin M. Propst
Coordinated Science Laboratory and Department of Physics, University of Illinois, Urbana, Illinois 61801
 

"A cylindrical magnetic spectrometer has been constructed to study the electron-impact desorption of ions and neutrals from solid surfaces. The instrument has high-energy resolution and sensitivity and allows the determination of the charge-to-mass ratio of the emitted ions. The apparatus has been applied to the study of polycrystalline tungsten with O2, CO, CO2, H2, N2, and H2O adsorbed. The ions which have been observed are O+ from O2/W, CO/W, and CO2/W; CO+ from CO/W; and H+ from H2/W and H2O/W. The ion energy distributions, ionic and total desorption cross sections, threshold energies, and other experimental results are presented and discussed."

 
 
 
 
 
Frank is going to send me the paper/s on the low energy
electron mass spectrometer etc.
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 6 18:40:37 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k272eUkA005653; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:40:30 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k272eT6G005638; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:40:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 18:40:29 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <440CF295.2000906@pobox.com> Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 21:40:21 -0500 From: "Stephen A. Lawrence" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20060202 Fedora/1.7.12-1.5.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Looks like it's over, folks. References: <440B5253.9050507@pobox.com> <006001c64170$0b1c8980$d3239d04@oemcomputer> In-Reply-To: <006001c64170$0b1c8980$d3239d04@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66803 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Kyle Mcallister wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stephen A. Lawrence" > To: > Sent: Sunday, 05 March, 2006 04:04 PM > Subject: OT: Looks like it's over, folks. > > This wasn't "news" on 2000 and 2004. This was "news" on the use of hazardous machines in future elections. > I think it is perhaps worth noting that had a Democrat been elected under > the same circumstances in 2000, and then re-elected under the same > circumstances in 2004, that there would have been none of this outcry of > "stealing the White House" and that counts were rigged. I disagree. Elections have been stolen any number of times in the past by both sides, and it isn't only the liberals or the left who point it out. But that's not the primary issue here. Nixon lost to Kennedy through the shenanigans of Mayor Daley, for example; there's not much debate about that. But the problem with the new voting machines goes far, far beyond the issue of party politics and who's dirtier than whom. The use of voting machines which are apparently easy to rig and which are impossible to audit means the incumbent party, _whichever_ it is, has the opportunity to lock itself in power. If California goes with these machines, then even if the Democrats win in 2008 we will still be in grave danger. A 1-party system is bad no matter which party it is, and those machines make such a thing possible. Immediately after the last election, I heard serious assertions that exit polls should be banned because they are so inaccurate. Whether they are inaccurate or not, the combination of that kind of thinking with audit-free machines is a recipe for disaster. > Those who screamed > "revote" in Florida would have been labeled as neo-con right wing > extremists. As a matter of fact I analyzed the available data on Florida pretty carefully and the pattern was not obviously different from historical voting patterns in the state. The evidence of fraud in 2004, such as it was, was mostly anecdotal and came primarily from Bev Harris at Black Box Voting. The statistical data didn't show it. Here's the page, rather disorganized and mostly of historical interest: http://physicsinsights.org/elec04.html A lot of the early suspicion on Florida came from the very weird pattern of votes: who voted for Bush correlated very well with what kind of machine they used, which seemed very wrong. It took careful analysis to determine that the correlation didn't indicate causality: the kind of machines and the way people voted were _both_ correlated to a third factor, which correlated with the demographics and political makeup of the counties. Here's a quote regarding the analysis of the _1996_ election, which I think sums up a lot of the confusion: "Notice, in particular, machine type is a significant predictor of the Dem vote ratio, even though those machines won't be used for another 8 years." As I said, in this case correlation did _not_ indicate causality. It's worth remembering that Kerry's people did _NOT_ challenge the results in Florida. They _did_ join the challenge in Ohio. Gore's people challenged in Florida, and as the very late recount by the press showed, they had good reason: Gore should have carried the state. Nixon's people did not challenge the results in Illinois because, IIRC, Nixon didn't want a long bitter divisive fight over the election. And he came back to win in a later election, anyway (and played his share of dirty tricks, too, of course). > The mass media's role would be handily reversed, always jumping > at the defense of the president who's legal election was called into > question. If the president is a Republican or Independent, it is a-ok > however to make such arguments. > > Don't think this means I like Bush; I do not. I hated Kerry, I nearly detest > Bush and Cheney, and there is not much other choice. It really sucks to not > have anyone to vote for. > > On a different note: a coworker and I were discussing alternative fuels > (like hydrogen) and such, at which he laughingly concluded the conversation > by stating "Its not going to do me any good, so who really cares about what > happens later. Lets just use up what we have left right now and the hell > with it. Who cares." > > ...Needless to say, my day was pretty well trashed from that point on. > > --Kyle, your resident hopelessly hoping Independent > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 6 22:57:46 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k276vbT5026530; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 22:57:37 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k276vY41026516; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 22:57:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 22:57:34 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060306224817.0291ba48@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 22:59:08 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steve Krivit Subject: OT: The end of blogging Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66804 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Well, maybe not the end, but the end of their distinct allure. If you can't fight them, buy them or masquerade as them. http://nytimes.com/2006/03/07/technology/07blog.html?hp&ex=1141794000&en=8add8717728087fe&ei=5094&partner=homepage From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 7 01:17:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k279HTZq020602; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 01:17:29 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k279HKO2020544; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 01:17:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 01:17:20 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=b3BaZCh85aqrBNALwYwZh6E7CIa/FJnctv9mShDBEFmf7T+Bi4qFw1X6a2qG0CEy; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200632791715911@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Toroidal electron Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 02:17:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940243991117cb95eaaf5a11bd00b67ffe3350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.47 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66805 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Jones asks. > > IOW ... the electron were "just" a trapped photon equivalent, > then why wouldn't we be able to tune an x-ray device (say a small fission reactor) > into an electron "factory" by filtering and downshifting the higher energy gammas ? > The Compton Effect on gammas in fission reactors does that for you, probably produces lots of Ps- and possibly (*e-) too. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Jones asks.
>
> IOW ... the electron were "just" a trapped photon equivalent,
> then why wouldn't we be able to tune an x-ray device (say a small fission reactor)
> into an electron "factory" by filtering and downshifting the higher energy gammas ?
>
The Compton Effect on gammas in fission reactors does that for you, probably
produces lots of Ps- and possibly (*e-) too.
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 7 06:47:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27ElcRw001442; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:47:38 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k27ElYI5001377; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:47:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:47:34 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <000a01c641f6$0a0d93a0$ac037841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060306224817.0291ba48@mail.newenergytimes.com> Subject: Re: The end of blogging Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:47:19 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2005-06-05) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.8 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66806 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Howdy Steven, Notice HP is helping build the Chinagrid. This will change the internet in ways difficult to foresee. http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=181501317 Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Krivit" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 12:59 AM Subject: OT: The end of blogging > Well, maybe not the end, but the end of their distinct allure. > > > If you can't fight them, buy them or masquerade as them. > > http://nytimes.com/2006/03/07/technology/07blog.html?hp&ex=1141794000&en=8add8717728087fe&ei=5094&partner=homepage > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 7 08:42:31 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27GgEYt022910; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:42:15 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k27GgCCS022897; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:42:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:42:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=DEljYBnXxqjvS3gz9tb6LvGGBQwNNjciIijMjDsQJ56k9GNWaLShnHE8b0t+Tvtk; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006327164210143@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Fw: Re: Coby CX1 TV Modification for (*e-) Electronium Search Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 09:42:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94085011984fef7c1abef13f0e58736ff3f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.19 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66807 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > To: > Date: 3/7/2006 8:37:24 AM > > > Fred - I had a little time between the cleaning chores > to unsolder just the little red deflection > lead from the card on the side of the tube. > Eureka - now getting a beautiful horizontal line across > center screen. I had to turn the "brightness" control > all the way down to keep the intensity at a safe level > for the phosphor. The line is really sharp and crisp! > Much better than on a scope! > The next chore will be to do some diagnostics on the > vertical deflection coils - get their resistance, try to > see if my DMM will measure the drive voltage across > the circuit, etc. Then, I can come up with a small > battery supply to put a variable DC across the vertical > deflection coils. > May be a while before I get to do this... > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 7 09:16:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27HGM7g006752; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 09:16:22 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k27HGKsG006727; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 09:16:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 09:16:20 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 12:11:20 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Physics Today: Time Too Good to Be True To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66808 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Physics Today http://www.physicstoday.org/vol-59/iss-3/p10.html Time Too Good to Be True Without wishing to cause unnecessary distress, I would like to call attention to a couple of issues concerning time. The first is merely calendraic but the second concerns the future of time itself. The first issue is that we may have to say farewell to leap seconds. Leap seconds, as you might recall, are the occasional one-second adjustments of our clocks that are made to maintain harmony between the astronomical and atomic time scales. Personally, I would be sorry to see leap seconds go because that would cost me the pleasure of mulling over the best way to spend my next one. Although a mere second might seem to be too short to cause jubilation, I believe any gift of time deserves to be treasured. Also, one second is not really that short. It is long enough to record a few million high-energy scattering events, and in femtosecond physics, one second is virtually an eternity. Also, one second is sufficient for a word or quick kiss that might change your life. (more at link) From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 7 12:20:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27KKLAI022838; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 12:20:22 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k27KKJo2022820; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 12:20:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 12:20:19 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: New Battery Hope Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 14:20:16 -0600 Message-ID: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B484CFA@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: New Battery Hope Thread-Index: AcZCJIxs1ELscR0DQzOcoyu2lm7sXQ== From: "Zell, Chris" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Mar 2006 20:20:13.0149 (UTC) FILETIME=[8A32F8D0:01C64224] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k27KKDcf022782 Resent-Message-ID: <9hwIKC.A.gkF.DseDEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66809 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/A rticle_Type1&c=Article&cid=1141599010468&call_pageid=970599109774&col=Co lumnist971715454851 The above is exactly what I've hoped for in regard to batteries. If they can perfect this, the whole world changes : the trade deficit, terrorism, the economy, Pollution, peak oil, global warming, - all of it. One really good battery would be an social, political and economic explosion bigger than the birth of the internet. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 7 13:06:33 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27L6CQM008724; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 13:06:12 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k27L6AWq008704; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 13:06:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 13:06:10 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: New Battery Hope Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 15:06:06 -0600 Message-ID: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B484D81@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: New Battery Hope Thread-Index: AcZCJIxs1ELscR0DQzOcoyu2lm7sXQABjyMg From: "Zell, Chris" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Mar 2006 21:06:02.0918 (UTC) FILETIME=[F1306C60:01C6422A] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k27L63Cw008652 Resent-Message-ID: <4yI8Z.A.8HC.BXfDEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66810 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If the link is too difficult to use, do a web search on EEStor and their ceramic ultracap. The rumors spilling out are stunning. -----Original Message----- From: Zell, Chris [mailto:ChrisZell@clearchannel.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 3:20 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: New Battery Hope http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/A rticle_Type1&c=Article&cid=1141599010468&call_pageid=970599109774&col=Co lumnist971715454851 The above is exactly what I've hoped for in regard to batteries. If they can perfect this, the whole world changes : the trade deficit, terrorism, the economy, Pollution, peak oil, global warming, - all of it. One really good battery would be an social, political and economic explosion bigger than the birth of the internet. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 7 13:20:31 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27LKGoU014045; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 13:20:17 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k27LKE5r014018; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 13:20:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 13:20:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=p+7/2dKIa61N70NF6XGvFiRM2TVNVKimvaB9xc/BsEZr6O8GjGdZXx9Lg75qNBwf; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200632721207495@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Fw: Re: Coby CX1 TV Modification for (*e-) Electronium Search Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 14:20:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94076d49239dee16f10691205b036cc5a4f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.26 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66811 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Roll the dice? > > To: > 3/7/2006 2:05:14 PM > > Fred, it looks like the vertical coils have, > 3.5 ohms DC resistance. > I drove them with 1.42 volts DC which put the trace > just off the top edge of the screen. > Using the red lead post as positive gave the upward > deflection. > Using ohms law, I figure with a 5 watt, 27.3 ohm resistor > in series with the coils 3.5 ohms, I can just hook it across > my 12.5 volt car battery for a long run. > Tonight when it gets dark I'll give it a try and see what > I can see. (Yes, I'll get my eyes dark adjusted first.) > I'll try to pick a deflection that gives the least backglow > so it will do minimum damage to our resolution. > > If you have the means you could do this: > 1. Snip the two vertical drive wires (red and white) > about in the middle so you can resolder them later. > 2. If you have a battery box for a single 1.5 volt > cell (bigger cell the better since it pulls almost 1/2 amp) > you could just use a cell to get the trace just off the top > of the screen. Make the red lead positive as above. > Be sure to back the brightness all the way down first! > > Using the car battery I can drive the necessary 0.4 or so > amp for a long test time. I have the power supply > driving the TV set so I think this is the best way to do it. > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 7 14:58:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k27MwDe6017706; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 14:58:13 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k27MwCJN017694; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 14:58:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 14:58:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:58:08 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C81051BC5A1BD0-8C8-11CF8@mblkn-m09.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Wolfram Science Conference ... Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.73 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66812 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: . . . in Wash, DC. Anyone going? http://www.wolframscience.com/conference/2006/outline.html ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 7 17:15:09 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k281EtFB008189; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:14:55 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k281Eq5Y008159; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:14:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:14:52 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 20:14:46 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C81064D2C99AE5-249C-3CFE@mblkn-m11.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Aharonov-Bohm Effect Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.129 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66813 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This site: http://msc.phys.rug.nl/quantummechanics/ab.htm has some remarkable .mpg Quicktime simulations of the A-B effect in the dual slit experiment. The representation of particle/wave duality alone is worth the d/l. A-B is suspected to be a key to an ou device. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 7 18:13:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k282Cs2a032449; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:12:55 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k282CrE8032430; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:12:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:12:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Toroidal electron Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 13:12:50 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <46fs02ppdmkbteql42ee5fc6mte4q4lvct@4ax.com> References: <410-220063161650949@earthlink.net> <006e01c64145$c2ec6920$6401a8c0@NuDell> In-Reply-To: <006e01c64145$c2ec6920$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta02ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Wed, 8 Mar 2006 02:12:49 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k282Co8S032406 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66814 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Jones Beene's message of Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:45:29 -0800: Hi, [snip] >IOW ... the electron were "just" a trapped photon equivalent, then >why wouldn't we be able to tune an x-ray device (say a small >fission reactor) into an electron "factory" by filtering and >downshifting the higher energy gammas ? [snip] You can, but because of conservation of angular momentum, you get an equal number of positrons. Then the positrons go off on their own, and annihilate an equal number of electrons, so you are back to square 1. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 7 18:18:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k282IY68003084; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:18:35 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k282IXjf003067; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:18:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:18:33 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=VvGx5aZH0q0t/HGwjptLJWhRlzs9yTV8ocHRqs5y8WMqm7V2eBxbnmijXBFixJcO; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200633821826933@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: FW: Re: Coby CX1 TV Modification for (*e-) Electronium Search Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 19:18:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9407ede1dd79460aa1f115293c612944e15350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.120.44 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66815 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: So much for Phase 1 Suggestion box? > To: > Date: 3/7/2006 6:33:48 PM > Subject: Re: A little more progress > > Well, if the ~ 3-electron-mass particles exist, Fred, I'm seeing > no sign of them in our experiment. > The experimental rig we designed is working just according to > plan. The modified vertical deflection gives a neat horizontal line > which can be deflected near the upper edge of the screen by > driving it with about 1.35 to 1.4+ VDC. With the brightness > turned all the way down, the trace is just about right. > I was working with the trace about 3/8 inch from the top > of the screen - I had covered it (as you suggested) with a strip > of electrician's tape. This masked the electron trace very > well, but - as I feared - the backlight from the trace lighting > the rear sides of the tube gave a very faint background glow > to the screen. You need not "dark adapt" your eyes for long > before you realize that this unwanted glow will tend to limit > the sensitivity. > Still, I'll guess that I could have picked up a "rogue" trace even > one thousandth the brightness of the main electron trace. > No such trace could be detected (by me) after several minutes > of screen watching. > If I tried to boost the trace brightness, the result was just to > increase the background light and it seems that this is a losing > variation. > As I mentioned earlier, You could probably duplicate this > setup by doing no more than snipping the vertical leads and > substituting a single 1.5 volt battery for the vertical drive. > Come to think about it - a lower voltage nicad cell might be > even better and would require no additional series resistance. > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 7 18:59:37 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k282xPDW022463; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:59:26 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k282xLTB022406; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:59:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:59:21 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <007501c6425c$4d629a90$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B484D81@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> Subject: Re: New Battery Hope Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 03:59:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0610-0, 06/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66816 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Chris, Very impressive and significant indeed! I searched and found their 2001 US Patent Application (published in 2004), it can be looked up at http://appft1.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html (app number 0040071944) The device they give as a typical example of their technology is effectively a 31 farad parallel plate capacitor based on a barium titanate dielectric (no electrolyte) which can stand 3500V, which is a lot considering stored energy is quadratic with voltage (E(J)=1/2*C*V^2). For energy in Wh divide by 3600 (1J=1Ws=1/3600Wh) : E(Wh)=((31 * (3500^2)) / 2) / 3600 = 52743 Wh which is indeed 52 kWh as claimed (the 3500V were less advertised somehow, but it may be manageable with clever power electronics). The weight claimed in the patent is 336 pounds = 170kg roughly, which makes the massic energy 52743 / 170 = 310 Wh/Kg, which is as claimed 10 times more than Lead Acid (30 Wh/Kg), and significantly more than presently available record holder Lithium Polymer (185 Wh/Kg), plus of course it recharges much faster (a few minutes), the instantaneous power is enormous (can discharge it's full energy in a few minutes too!) and the lifetime is millions of cycles compared to hundreds of cycles for electrochemical cells, looks promising to me, let's just hope it actually works :) Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zell, Chris" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 10:06 PM Subject: RE: New Battery Hope > If the link is too difficult to use, do a web search on EEStor and > their ceramic ultracap. The rumors spilling out are stunning. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Zell, Chris [mailto:ChrisZell@clearchannel.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 3:20 PM > To: vortex-l@eskimo.com > Subject: New Battery Hope > > http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/A > rticle_Type1&c=Article&cid=1141599010468&call_pageid=970599109774&col=Co > lumnist971715454851 > > > The above is exactly what I've hoped for in regard to batteries. If > they can perfect this, the whole world changes : the trade deficit, > terrorism, the economy, Pollution, peak oil, global warming, - all > of it. > > One really good battery would be an social, political and economic > explosion bigger than the birth of the internet. > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 7 19:07:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2837GOg025524; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 19:07:16 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2837EPx025508; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 19:07:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 19:07:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <007e01c6425d$682e62e0$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-2200633821826933@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Re: Coby CX1 TV Modification for (*e-) Electronium Search Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 04:07:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0610-0, 06/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: <88CV5.A.gOG.ipkDEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66817 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tsss, watching TV too much and too close ;) Nice experiment, even though I haven't understood what you were looking for. Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 3:18 AM Subject: FW: Re: Coby CX1 TV Modification for (*e-) Electronium Search > So much for Phase 1 > > Suggestion box? > >> To: >> Date: 3/7/2006 6:33:48 PM >> Subject: Re: A little more progress >> >> Well, if the ~ 3-electron-mass particles exist, Fred, I'm seeing >> no sign of them in our experiment. >> The experimental rig we designed is working just according to >> plan. The modified vertical deflection gives a neat horizontal line >> which can be deflected near the upper edge of the screen by >> driving it with about 1.35 to 1.4+ VDC. With the brightness >> turned all the way down, the trace is just about right. >> I was working with the trace about 3/8 inch from the top >> of the screen - I had covered it (as you suggested) with a strip >> of electrician's tape. This masked the electron trace very >> well, but - as I feared - the backlight from the trace lighting >> the rear sides of the tube gave a very faint background glow >> to the screen. You need not "dark adapt" your eyes for long >> before you realize that this unwanted glow will tend to limit >> the sensitivity. >> Still, I'll guess that I could have picked up a "rogue" trace even >> one thousandth the brightness of the main electron trace. >> No such trace could be detected (by me) after several minutes >> of screen watching. >> If I tried to boost the trace brightness, the result was just to >> increase the background light and it seems that this is a losing >> variation. >> As I mentioned earlier, You could probably duplicate this >> setup by doing no more than snipping the vertical leads and >> substituting a single 1.5 volt battery for the vertical drive. >> Come to think about it - a lower voltage nicad cell might be >> even better and would require no additional series resistance. >> >> > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 7 20:06:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2846FQA018386; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:06:16 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2846CRF018349; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:06:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:06:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 23:06:04 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8107CC0B9ACBF-11D4-10C94@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <410-2200633821826933@earthlink.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <410-2200633821826933@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Coby CX1 TV Modification for (*e-) Electronium Search Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.136 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66818 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Frederick Sparber So much for Phase 1 Suggestion box? <><><><><><> Reverse the polarity. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 7 21:27:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k285QoCl016034; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 21:26:51 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k285Qmr7015992; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 21:26:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 21:26:48 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <440E6B02.10804@usfamily.net> Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 23:26:26 -0600 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Abbot and Costello talk computers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66819 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: COSTELLO CALLS TO BUY A COMPUTER FROM ABBOTT ABBOTT: Super Duper computer store. Can I help you? COSTELLO: Thanks. I'm setting up an office in my den and I'm thinking about buying a computer. ABBOTT: Mac? COSTELLO: No, the name's Lou. ABBOTT: Your computer? COSTELLO: I don't own a computer. I want to buy one. ABBOTT: Mac? COSTELLO: I told you, my name's Lou. ABBOTT: What about Windows? COSTELLO: Why? Will it get stuffy in here? ABBOTT: Do you want a computer with Windows? COSTELLO: I don't know. What will I see when I look at the windows? ABBOTT: Wallpaper. COSTEL! LO: Never mind the windows. I need a computer and software. ABBOTT: Software for Windows? COSTELLO: No. On the computer! I need something I can use to write proposals, track expenses and run my business.? What do you have? ABBOTT: Office. COSTELLO: Yeah, for my office. Can you recommend anything? ABBOTT: I just did. COSTELLO: You just did what? ABBOTT: Recommend something. COSTELLO: You recommended something? ABBOTT: Yes. COSTELLO: For my office? ABBOTT: Yes. COSTELLO: OK, what did you recommend for my office? ABBOTT: Office. COSTELLO: Yes, for my office! ABBOTT: I recommend Office with Windows. COSTELLO: I already have an office with windows! OK, let's just say I'm sitting at my computer and I want to type a proposal.? What do I need? ABBOTT: Word. COSTELLO: What word? ABBOTT: Word in Office. COSTELLO: The only word in office is office. ABBOTT: The Word in Office for Windows. COSTELLO: Which word in office for windows? ABBOTT: The Word you get when you click the blue "W". COSTELLO: I'm going to click your blue "w" if you don't start with some straight answers.? What about financial bookkeeping? You have anything I can track my money with? ABBOTT: Money. COSTELLO: That's right. What do you have? ABBOTT: Money. COSTELLO: I need money to track my money? ABBOTT: It comes bundled with your computer. COSTELLO: What's bundled with my computer? ABBOTT: Money. COSTELLO: Money comes with my computer? ABBOTT: Yes. No extra charge. COSTELLO: I get a bundle of money with my computer? How much? ABBOTT: One copy. COSTELLO: Isn't it illegal to copy money? ABBOTT: Microsoft gave us a license to copy Money. COSTELLO: They can give you a license to copy money? ABBOTT: Why not? THEY OWN IT! ???????? (A few days later) ABBOTT: Super Duper computer store. Can I help you? COSTELLO: How do I turn my computer off? ABBOTT: Click on "START"............. --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 03:45:20 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28Bj8Jj015805; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 03:45:08 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k28Bj5d6015775; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 03:45:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 03:45:05 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=ngt5uH6ysBV7IhmmS8yrQXJ1VMSQ2HzT0ur1nwJSQ/Q08xk1SOKCrpFV5/0rm6Vx; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006338114457218@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Coby CX1 TV Modification for (*e-) Electronium Search Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 04:44:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9405e1406ab4e7dddc4757722066c44ae21350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.223 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66820 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Michel Jullian wrote. > >Tsss, watching TV too much and too close ;) > > Nice experiment, even though I haven't understood what you were looking for. > Valid question Michel. About a year ago I proposed that Positronium formed by momentary coupling of a positron and electron rather than annihilating into a pair of 0.51 MeV photons might couple to an electron from any atom and form a stable "Triad" (e- e+ e-) aka Electronium or (*e-) giving off 3 photons of about 170 KeV each (which might be mistaken for 3-photon positron-electron annihilation and end as a stable/elusive particle with a mass about 2+ that of "ordinary" electrons. Since then I found that there is a lot going on in the area of research into the recently observed Positronium Ion Ps- giving pause for one to wonder if the proposed stable (*e-) is being missed. This experiment at the Max Planck Institute shows a setup for creating Ps- and use of germanium detector for looking at annihilation photons but doesn't specify their energy. Could the observed three-photon electron-positron annihilation actually be formation (the mass defect binding energy) of (*e-)? If so electronium could be ubiquitous in nature, albeit in small numbers wrt electrons If it exists it could be a major player in the quest for producing useful energy from Hot or Cold Fusion.. Fred http://www.mpi-hd.mpg.de/ato/psminus/ "The object of our studies is one of these simple systems: the Positronium negative ion. This exotic entity is a bound state of a positron and two electrons. It is similar to the negative ion of hydrogen (H-). In fact, it is the most simple three body problem imaginable. Its constituents are pointlike particles (at least to the best of our knowledge) and there are no pertubations due to strong interactions to be considered. There has been quite a lot of theoretical activity around Ps- but there is not much known experimentally. Only one experiment can be found in the literature: A.P. Mills observed the Positronium negative ion experimentally and made a first lifetime measurement. With an error of about 4% it is not sufficiently precise to allow for a test a QED effects. A new measurement of the lifetime with improved precision is the first objective of this project." "To measure the spectra a Germanium detector at the temperature of liquid nitrogen detects the ? radiation from the decays of the positronium and positronium ion." ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Michel Jullian wrote.
>
>Tsss, watching TV too much and too close ;)
>
> Nice experiment, even though I haven't understood what you were looking for.
>
Valid question Michel.
About a year ago I proposed that Positronium formed by momentary coupling of
a positron and electron rather than annihilating into a pair of 0.51 MeV photons might couple
to an electron  from any atom and form a stable "Triad" (e- e+ e-) aka Electronium or (*e-)
giving off 3 photons of about 170 KeV each (which might be mistaken for 3-photon
positron-electron annihilation and end as a stable/elusive particle with a mass about
2+ that of "ordinary" electrons.
 
Since then I found that there is a lot going on in the area of research into the recently observed
Positronium Ion Ps- giving pause for one to wonder if the proposed stable (*e-) is being missed.
 
 
 This experiment at the Max Planck Institute shows a setup for creating Ps- and
use of germanium detector for looking at annihilation photons but doesn't specify
their energy. Could the observed three-photon electron-positron annihilation actually
be formation (the mass defect binding energy) of (*e-)?
 
If so electronium could be ubiquitous in nature, albeit in small numbers wrt electrons
 
If it exists it could be a major player in the quest for producing useful energy from Hot or Cold Fusion..
 
Fred
 

"The object of our studies is one of these simple systems: the Positronium negative ion. This exotic entity is a bound state of a positron and two electrons. It is similar to the negative ion of hydrogen (H-). In fact, it is the most simple three body problem imaginable. Its constituents are pointlike particles (at least to the best of our knowledge) and there are no pertubations due to strong interactions to be considered. There has been quite a lot of theoretical activity around Ps- but there is not much known experimentally. Only one experiment can be found in the literature: A.P. Mills observed the Positronium negative ion experimentally and made a first lifetime measurement. With an error of about 4% it is not sufficiently precise to allow for a test a QED effects. A new measurement of the lifetime with improved precision is the first objective of this project."

"To measure the spectra a Germanium detector at the temperature of liquid nitrogen detects the ? radiation from the decays of the positronium and positronium ion."

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 05:30:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28DU640000829; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 05:30:07 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k28DU4mR000787; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 05:30:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 05:30:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=l03MRGpT1wD/y/0W+G1YLpsoP+iffKE/rK7VYU6Ouqv2F+rBHXcl0qsyCoSQyVKs; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006338132954804@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Coby CX1 TV Modification for (*e-) Electronium Search Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 06:29:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9401547f95a6ae12ba8ffb9e9f15d34cb16350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.25 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66821 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Might one mask the entire TV screen with a disk or mask slotted or a hole about where one would expect the (*e-) trace (between 2^1/2 & 3^1/2 deflected electron trace spaces below the electron trace) and use a photo sensor to detect brightness differences? Above the electron trace if you "reverse the polarity" Terry. :-) Fred Retired NASA Engineer and Experimenter 1st Class, Francis J. (Frank) Stenger wrote: > > Fred > >I had a little time between the cleaning chores > to unsolder just the little red deflection > lead from the card on the side of the tube. > Eureka - now getting a beautiful horizontal line across > center screen. I had to turn the "brightness" control > all the way down to keep the intensity at a safe level > for the phosphor. The line is really sharp and crisp! > Much better than on a scope! > The next chore will be to do some diagnostics on the > vertical deflection coils - get their resistance, try to > see if my DMM will measure the drive voltage across > the circuit, etc. Then, I can come up with a small > battery supply to put a variable DC across the vertical > deflection coils. > > it looks like the vertical coils have, > 3.5 ohms DC resistance. > I drove them with 1.42 volts DC which put the trace > just off the top edge of the screen. > Using the red lead post as positive gave the upward > deflection. > Using ohms law, I figure with a 5 watt, 27.3 ohm resistor > in series with the coils 3.5 ohms, I can just hook it across > my 12.5 volt car battery for a long run. > Tonight when it gets dark I'll give it a try and see what > I can see. (Yes, I'll get my eyes dark adjusted first.) > I'll try to pick a deflection that gives the least backglow > so it will do minimum damage to our resolution. > > If you have the means you could do this: > 1. Snip the two vertical drive wires (red and white) > about in the middle so you can resolder them later. > 2. If you have a battery box for a single 1.5 volt > cell (bigger cell the better since it pulls almost 1/2 amp) > you could just use a cell to get the trace just off the top > of the screen. Make the red lead positive as above. > Be sure to back the brightness all the way down first! > > Using the car battery I can drive the necessary 0.4 or so > amp for a long test time. I have the power supply > driving the TV set so I think this is the best way to do it. > > > Well, if the ~ 3-electron-mass particles exist, Fred, I'm seeing > no sign of them in our experiment. > The experimental rig we designed is working just according to > plan. The modified vertical deflection gives a neat horizontal line > which can be deflected near the upper edge of the screen by > driving it with about 1.35 to 1.4+ VDC. With the brightness > turned all the way down, the trace is just about right. > I was working with the trace about 3/8 inch from the top > of the screen - I had covered it (as you suggested) with a strip > of electrician's tape. This masked the electron trace very > well, but - as I feared - the backlight from the trace lighting > the rear sides of the tube gave a very faint background glow > to the screen. You need not "dark adapt" your eyes for long > before you realize that this unwanted glow will tend to limit > the sensitivity. > Still, I'll guess that I could have picked up a "rogue" trace even > one thousandth the brightness of the main electron trace. > No such trace could be detected (by me) after several minutes > of screen watching. > If I tried to boost the trace brightness, the result was just to > increase the background light and it seems that this is a losing > variation. > As I mentioned earlier, You could probably duplicate this > setup by doing no more than snipping the vertical leads and > substituting a single 1.5 volt battery for the vertical drive. > Come to think about it - a lower voltage nicad cell might be > even better and would require no additional series resistance. > > ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Might one mask the entire TV screen with a disk or  mask slotted or a hole about where one would
expect the (*e-) trace (between 2^1/2 & 3^1/2 deflected electron trace spaces
below the electron trace) and use a photo sensor to detect
brightness differences?
 
Above the electron trace if you "reverse the polarity" Terry.   :-)
 
Fred
 
 
Retired NASA Engineer and Experimenter 1st Class, Francis J. (Frank) Stenger wrote:
>
> Fred
>
>I had a little time between the cleaning chores
> to unsolder just the little red deflection
> lead from the card on the side of the tube.
> Eureka - now getting a beautiful horizontal line across
> center screen. I had to turn the "brightness" control
> all the way down to keep the intensity at a safe level
> for the phosphor. The line is really sharp and crisp!
> Much better than on a scope!
> The next chore will be to do some diagnostics on the
> vertical deflection coils - get their resistance, try to
> see if my DMM will measure the drive voltage across
> the circuit, etc. Then, I can come up with a small
> battery supply to put a variable DC across the vertical
> deflection coils.
>
> it looks like the vertical coils have,
> 3.5 ohms DC resistance.
> I drove them with 1.42 volts DC which put the trace
> just off the top edge of the screen.
> Using the red lead post as positive gave the upward
> deflection.
> Using ohms law, I figure with a 5 watt, 27.3 ohm resistor
> in series with the coils 3.5 ohms, I can just hook it across
> my 12.5 volt car battery for a long run.
> Tonight when it gets dark I'll give it a try and see what
> I can see. (Yes, I'll get my eyes dark adjusted first.)
> I'll try to pick a deflection that gives the least backglow
> so it will do minimum damage to our resolution.
>
> If you have the means you could do this:
> 1. Snip the two vertical drive wires (red and white)
> about in the middle so you can resolder them later.
> 2. If you have a battery box for a single 1.5 volt
> cell (bigger cell the better since it pulls almost 1/2 amp)
> you could just use a cell to get the trace just off the top
> of the screen. Make the red lead positive as above.
> Be sure to back the brightness all the way down first!
>
> Using the car battery I can drive the necessary 0.4 or so
> amp for a long test time. I have the power supply
> driving the TV set so I think this is the best way to do it.
>
>
> Well, if the ~ 3-electron-mass particles exist, Fred, I'm seeing
> no sign of them in our experiment.
> The experimental rig we designed is working just according to
> plan. The modified vertical deflection gives a neat horizontal line
> which can be deflected near the upper edge of the screen by
> driving it with about 1.35 to 1.4+ VDC. With the brightness
> turned all the way down, the trace is just about right.
> I was working with the trace about 3/8 inch from the top
> of the screen - I had covered it (as you suggested) with a strip
> of electrician's tape. This masked the electron trace very
> well, but - as I feared - the backlight from the trace lighting
> the rear sides of the tube gave a very faint background glow
> to the screen. You need not "dark adapt" your eyes for long
> before you realize that this unwanted glow will tend to limit
> the sensitivity.
> Still, I'll guess that I could have picked up a "rogue" trace even
> one thousandth the brightness of the main electron trace.
> No such trace could be detected (by me) after several minutes
> of screen watching.
> If I tried to boost the trace brightness, the result was just to
> increase the background light and it seems that this is a losing
> variation.
> As I mentioned earlier, You could probably duplicate this
> setup by doing no more than snipping the vertical leads and
> substituting a single 1.5 volt battery for the vertical drive.
> Come to think about it - a lower voltage nicad cell might be
> even better and would require no additional series resistance.
>
>
 
 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 05:42:01 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28DfgeU006413; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 05:41:42 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k28DffBK006402; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 05:41:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 05:41:41 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 08:41:35 -0500 Message-Id: <8C810CD270B41ED-23E4-114AA@mblkn-m17.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <410-2200633821826933@earthlink.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <410-2200633821826933@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Coby CX1 TV Modification for (*e-) Electronium Search Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.135 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <0cYQsC.A.6jB.V8tDEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66822 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Frederick Sparber So much for Phase 1 Suggestion box? <><><><><><><><> Okay, then, turn it off and back on again. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 05:48:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28DmRCB009952; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 05:48:28 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k28DmPA1009897; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 05:48:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 05:48:25 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <440EE097.2070202@pobox.com> Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 08:48:07 -0500 From: "Stephen A. Lawrence" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20060202 Fedora/1.7.12-1.5.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Aharonov-Bohm Effect References: <8C81064D2C99AE5-249C-3CFE@mblkn-m11.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C81064D2C99AE5-249C-3CFE@mblkn-m11.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66823 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote: > This site: > > http://msc.phys.rug.nl/quantummechanics/ab.htm > > has some remarkable .mpg Quicktime simulations of the A-B effect in the > dual slit experiment. The representation of particle/wave duality alone > is worth the d/l. > > A-B is suspected to be a key to an ou device. Could you enlarge on that? It's a fascinating effect but a way of extracting energy from it doesn't leap instantly to mind, so a link or a few more words would be of interest. Thanx... From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 06:12:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28ECav7027615; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 06:12:38 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k28ECZ65027593; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 06:12:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 06:12:35 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=NTT6TC5z5iBS6KsqlBwUE7FcIF0UnDP+sJ8IY3RTqEJvzCyJzh+dVwbYWxEyUFat; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006338141233663@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Coby CX1 TV Modification for (*e-) Electronium Search Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 07:12:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940476705452e13c77cb1130f1330ba1890350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.200 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66824 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Good idea, Terry. Frank is contemplating switching off the horizontal drive to get momentary bright spots on the screen. Fred > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 3/8/2006 6:42:28 AM > Subject: Re: Coby CX1 TV Modification for (*e-) Electronium Search > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Frederick Sparber > > So much for Phase 1 > > Suggestion box? > > <><><><><><><><> > > Okay, then, turn it off and back on again. > > Terry > ___________________________________________________ > Try the New Netscape Mail Today! > Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List > http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 06:28:06 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28ERkL2001331; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 06:27:47 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k28ERjmd001313; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 06:27:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 06:27:45 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=STK8KVacm1tOSuuXZ/4deHbrF34rGD4GymqdYkooWE09aNllNxMUidtnM73zcnFD; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006338142742149@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re; Mitsuaki Nishijima Professor Emeritus of Kyoto University Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 07:27:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BC2B74.89D1CCC0" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940b78f2a9cba99a7a1aae8b09565cb5a52350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.200 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66825 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BC2B74.89D1CCC0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Jed. Wasn't Professor Nishijima involved in early CF work? Some of these papers he published indicates he was. http://kuchem.kyoto-u.ac.jp/hyoumen/Nishi/nishi_pap.html I've known Retired Professor Frank Propst since he was an undergraduate and grad student working summers with us at Sandia in the late 50s and thereabouts. Fred http://kuchem.kyoto-u.ac.jp/hyoumen/nishieng.html "Mitsuaki Nishijima is Professor Emeritus, Kyoto University. He earned his BS and MS degrees from Department of Electronic Engineering, Osaka University in 1962 and 1964, respectively. Prof. Jiro Yamaguchi brought about his interest in semiconductor surfaces. Inspired by Prof. John Bardeen, he moved to Department of Electrical Engineering of the University of Illinois Graduate School as Fulbright Student and David Sarnoff RCA Fellow. His PhD reserch was in surface physics with Prof. Franklin M. Propst of the Department of Physics and Coordinated Science Laboratory as thesis advisor. He received his PhD from University of Illinois in 1969. He then joined the Solid State Physics Group of the Central Research Laboratory, Mitsubishi Electric Company headed by Dr. Sumiaki Ibuki as surface scientist. In 1976, he moved to the Department of Chemistry, Faculty of Science, Kyoto University as Associate Professor, and joined the Surface Chemistry Group headed by Prof. Masaru Onchi. He was promoted to Professor of Chemistry in 1992, and was the head of the Surface Chemistry Group until March 31, 2003. He is Professor Emeritus from April 1, 2003. He is a member of the Chemical Society of Japan, the Physical Society of Japan, the Japan Society of Applied Physics, the Surface Science Society of Japan, and the Vacuum Society of Japan." ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Jed.
 
Wasn't Professor Nishijima involved in early CF work?
 
Some of these papers he published indicates he was.
 
 
I've known Retired Professor Frank Propst since he was an undergraduate and grad student
working summers with us at Sandia in the late 50s and thereabouts.
 
Fred
 
 
"Mitsuaki Nishijima is Professor Emeritus, Kyoto University. He earned his BS and MS degrees from Department of Electronic Engineering, Osaka University in 1962 and 1964, respectively. Prof. Jiro Yamaguchi brought about his interest in semiconductor surfaces. Inspired by Prof. John Bardeen, he moved to Department of Electrical Engineering of the University of Illinois Graduate School as Fulbright Student and David Sarnoff RCA Fellow. His PhD reserch was in surface physics with Prof. Franklin M. Propst of the Department of Physics and Coordinated Science Laboratory as thesis advisor. He received his PhD from University of Illinois in 1969. He then joined the Solid State Physics Group of the Central Research Laboratory, Mitsubishi Electric Company headed by Dr. Sumiaki Ibuki as surface scientist. In 1976, he moved to the Department of Chemistry, Faculty of Science, Kyoto University as Associate Professor, and joined the Surface Chemistry Group headed by Prof. Masaru Onchi. He was promoted to Professor of Chemistry in 1992, and was the head of the Surface Chemistry Group until March 31, 2003. He is Professor Emeritus from April 1, 2003. He is a member of the Chemical Society of Japan, the Physical Society of Japan, the Japan Society of Applied Physics, the Surface Science Society of Japan, and the Vacuum Society of Japan."
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- ------=_NextPart_000_01BC2B74.89D1CCC0 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; name="RWCPwill.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: RWCPwill.vcf Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="RWCPwill.vcf" QkVHSU46VkNBUkQNClZFUlNJT046Mi4xDQpOOjtSV0NQd2lsbDs7DQpGTjpSV0NQd2lsbA0KTklD S05BTUU6DQpPUkc6Ow0KVElUTEU6DQpURUw7SE9NRTtWT0lDRToNClRFTDtXT1JLO1ZPSUNFOg0K VEVMO0NFTEw7Vk9JQ0U6DQpURUw7UEFHRVI7Vk9JQ0U6DQpURUw7SE9NRTtGQVg6DQpURUw7V09S SztGQVg6DQpBRFI7SE9NRTo7Ozs7OzsNCkFEUjtXT1JLOjs7Ozs7Ow0KVVJMO0hPTUU6DQpVUkw7 V09SSzoNCkJEQVk6MDAwMA0KQU5OSVY6MDAwMA0KU1BPVVNFOg0KRkFNSUxZOg0KRU1BSUw7UFJF RjtJTlRFUk5FVDpSV0NQd2lsbEBhb2wuY29tDQpOT1RFOg0KSU07UFJFRjtJTlRFUk5FVDo7DQpJ TTtJTlRFUk5FVDo7DQpJTTtJTlRFUk5FVDo7DQpWQ0FSRF9FTkQ6VkNBUkQNCg== ------=_NextPart_000_01BC2B74.89D1CCC0-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 07:26:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28FQYO6027520; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 07:26:34 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k28FQWW1027503; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 07:26:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 07:26:32 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 10:26:25 -0500 Message-Id: <8C810DBCC778476-2460-277D@mblkn-m03.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <8C81064D2C99AE5-249C-3CFE@mblkn-m11.sysops.aol.com> <440EE097.2070202@pobox.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <440EE097.2070202@pobox.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Aharonov-Bohm Effect Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.67 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k28FQUoN027475 Resent-Message-ID: <7IMxID.A.rtG.oevDEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66826 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Stephen A. Lawrence hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote:  > > A-B is suspected to be a key to an ou device.    Could you enlarge on that?  <><><><><><> Yeah, sorry, I've been quite busy of late. Some believe that the vector potential surrounding an enclosed magnetic flux field can be used to tap the vacuum. The magnetic A-B effect certainly has a quantum impact. This Sprain Motor got me to look into permalloys, particularly those containing mollybedamned. This led to studying flux gating. Elsewhere Jones pointed out the CSIRO motor switched permeability motor: http://www.cip.csiro.au/Machines/success/sr.html which demonstrates near unity (or better??) operation. Suddenly, I find loads of information on recent work on flux gating. Then it all comes rushing back to me like the hot kiss at the end of a wet fist. Magnetic circuits are like electrical ones except instead of the resistor burning out, the mag material saturates and the flux will be forced outside the magmat. Well, it beats television . . . except for Sparber's Coby and "Lost". Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 07:27:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28FRPrM028026; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 07:27:26 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k28FRM3Y027984; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 07:27:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 07:27:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <010e01c642c4$c6688680$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-22006338114457218@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Coby CX1 TV Modification for (*e-) Electronium Search Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:26:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0610-0, 06/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66827 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > If it exists it could be a major player in the quest for producing useful > energy from Hot or Cold Fusion.. Ah now this talks to me ;) Thanks Fred for the explanations, I am afraid I am an ignoramus in particle physics but I am willing to learn. 1/ What is the difference between (*e-) and Ps- exactly? They seem to be both composed of a positron and two electrons, why should one be more stable? 2/ Why should the mass of the Electronium be twice that of the electron and not thrice (e- e+ e-)? I imagine the mass default corresponds to a binding energy, but what kind of force would this be, surely not nuclear since we're not talking about nucleons? Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 12:44 PM Subject: Re: Coby CX1 TV Modification for (*e-) Electronium Search > Michel Jullian wrote. >> >>Tsss, watching TV too much and too close ;) >> >> Nice experiment, even though I haven't understood what you were looking >> for. >> > Valid question Michel. > About a year ago I proposed that Positronium formed by momentary coupling > of > a positron and electron rather than annihilating into a pair of 0.51 MeV > photons might couple > to an electron from any atom and form a stable "Triad" (e- e+ e-) aka > Electronium or (*e-) > giving off 3 photons of about 170 KeV each (which might be mistaken for > 3-photon > positron-electron annihilation and end as a stable/elusive particle with a > mass about > 2+ that of "ordinary" electrons. > > Since then I found that there is a lot going on in the area of research > into the recently observed > Positronium Ion Ps- giving pause for one to wonder if the proposed stable > (*e-) is being missed. > > > This experiment at the Max Planck Institute shows a setup for creating Ps- > and > use of germanium detector for looking at annihilation photons but doesn't > specify > their energy. Could the observed three-photon electron-positron > annihilation actually > be formation (the mass defect binding energy) of (*e-)? > > If so electronium could be ubiquitous in nature, albeit in small numbers > wrt electrons > > If it exists it could be a major player in the quest for producing useful > energy from Hot or Cold Fusion.. > > Fred > > http://www.mpi-hd.mpg.de/ato/psminus/ > "The object of our studies is one of these simple systems: the Positronium > negative ion. This exotic entity is a bound state of a positron and two > electrons. It is similar to the negative ion of hydrogen (H-). In fact, it > is the most simple three body problem imaginable. Its constituents are > pointlike particles (at least to the best of our knowledge) and there are > no pertubations due to strong interactions to be considered. There has > been quite a lot of theoretical activity around Ps- but there is not much > known experimentally. Only one experiment can be found in the literature: > A.P. Mills observed the Positronium negative ion experimentally and made a > first lifetime measurement. With an error of about 4% it is not > sufficiently precise to allow for a test a QED effects. A new measurement > of the lifetime with improved precision is the first objective of this > project." > "To measure the spectra a Germanium detector at the temperature of liquid > nitrogen detects the ? radiation from the decays of the positronium and > positronium ion." From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 08:05:06 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28G4ikU011834; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 08:04:44 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k28G4gKs011816; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 08:04:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 08:04:42 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=nbUAYP/d2lDAjcX7NxKljk7q49XZJX2YnjJbZmOomRmgYdHEuysxppGymmuM9gRa; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200633816440142@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Coby CX1 TV Modification for (*e-) Electronium Search Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:04:40 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940baec37596256accf6538fdda74ca2517350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.107 Resent-Message-ID: <_raY5C.A.e4C.ZCwDEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66828 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michel Jullian writes: > > > If it exists it could be a major player in the quest for producing useful > > energy from Hot or Cold Fusion.. > > Ah now this talks to me ;) > > Thanks Fred for the explanations, I am afraid I am an ignoramus in particle > physics but I am willing to learn. > > 1/ What is the difference between (*e-) and Ps- exactly? They seem to be > both composed of a positron and two electrons, why should one be more > stable? That is the question begging an answer, Michel. Under the right conditions the Ps- could form into a stable "Triad" particle. In chemistry some reactions go to completion while some don't. > > 2/ Why should the mass of the Electronium be twice that of the electron and > not thrice (e- e+ e-)? I imagine the mass default corresponds to a binding > energy, but what kind of force would this be, surely not nuclear since we're > not talking about nucleons? A mass 2 x electron mass (*e-) would be the rest mass result of a binding energy loss equivalent to the mass of an electron ie., 510 kev or the energy of three 170 kev photons. Most likely the mass would be more than twice and less than thrice. Fred > > Michel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frederick Sparber" > To: "vortex-l" > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 12:44 PM > Subject: Re: Coby CX1 TV Modification for (*e-) Electronium Search > > > > Michel Jullian wrote. > >> > >>Tsss, watching TV too much and too close ;) > >> > >> Nice experiment, even though I haven't understood what you were looking > >> for. > >> > > Valid question Michel. > > About a year ago I proposed that Positronium formed by momentary coupling > > of > > a positron and electron rather than annihilating into a pair of 0.51 MeV > > photons might couple > > to an electron from any atom and form a stable "Triad" (e- e+ e-) aka > > Electronium or (*e-) > > giving off 3 photons of about 170 KeV each (which might be mistaken for > > 3-photon > > positron-electron annihilation and end as a stable/elusive particle with a > > mass about > > 2+ that of "ordinary" electrons. > > > > Since then I found that there is a lot going on in the area of research > > into the recently observed > > Positronium Ion Ps- giving pause for one to wonder if the proposed stable > > (*e-) is being missed. > > > > > > This experiment at the Max Planck Institute shows a setup for creating Ps- > > and > > use of germanium detector for looking at annihilation photons but doesn't > > specify > > their energy. Could the observed three-photon electron-positron > > annihilation actually > > be formation (the mass defect binding energy) of (*e-)? > > > > If so electronium could be ubiquitous in nature, albeit in small numbers > > wrt electrons > > > > If it exists it could be a major player in the quest for producing useful > > energy from Hot or Cold Fusion.. > > > > Fred > > > > http://www.mpi-hd.mpg.de/ato/psminus/ > > "The object of our studies is one of these simple systems: the Positronium > > negative ion. This exotic entity is a bound state of a positron and two > > electrons. It is similar to the negative ion of hydrogen (H-). In fact, it > > is the most simple three body problem imaginable. Its constituents are > > pointlike particles (at least to the best of our knowledge) and there are > > no pertubations due to strong interactions to be considered. There has > > been quite a lot of theoretical activity around Ps- but there is not much > > known experimentally. Only one experiment can be found in the literature: > > A.P. Mills observed the Positronium negative ion experimentally and made a > > first lifetime measurement. With an error of about 4% it is not > > sufficiently precise to allow for a test a QED effects. A new measurement > > of the lifetime with improved precision is the first objective of this > > project." > > "To measure the spectra a Germanium detector at the temperature of liquid > > nitrogen detects the ? radiation from the decays of the positronium and > > positronium ion." From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 08:16:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28GGM8m016745; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 08:16:22 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k28GGKih016727; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 08:16:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 08:16:20 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060308111437.03427c10@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 11:15:45 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Re; Mitsuaki Nishijima Professor Emeritus of Kyoto University In-Reply-To: <410-22006338142742149@earthlink.net> References: <410-22006338142742149@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <-G_WeC.A.RFE.UNwDEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66829 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick Sparber wrote: >Jed. > >Wasn't Professor Nishijima involved in early CF work? He is not listed in the EndNote database. I do not recall hearing of him. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 08:51:37 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28GpP6m004152; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 08:51:25 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k28GpN97004134; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 08:51:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 08:51:23 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=tCIq1apCMg03E590dKzHztrtDNoXfljPTIlxzvDjWwehtYs5Pfs5H8AAl9sRgFsX; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006338165117216@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re; Mitsuaki Nishijima Professor Emeritus of KyotoUniversity Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:51:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94036fac946c9e952ac91acb0e8126ebb4f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.44 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66830 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Okay. Thanks Jed. His name came up in a recent conversation with Professor Frank Propst (retired). Although skeptical of useful amounts of energy from controlled Hot or Cold Fusion, Frank feels that there is the possibility of "some as yet unexplained physics going on". Fred > [Original Message] > From: Jed Rothwell > To: > Date: 3/8/2006 9:17:08 AM > Subject: Re: Re; Mitsuaki Nishijima Professor Emeritus of KyotoUniversity > > Frederick Sparber wrote: > > >Jed. > > > >Wasn't Professor Nishijima involved in early CF work? > > He is not listed in the EndNote database. I do not recall hearing of him. > > - Jed > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 13:09:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28L8ZAI023561; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 13:08:35 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k28L8U07023506; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 13:08:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 13:08:30 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060308160821.03501578@mindspring.com> Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060308160210.0342aef0@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 16:08:27 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Book from BARC Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k28L8QTo023477 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66831 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have a book titled "BARC Studies in Cold Fusion," published by the Atomic Energy Commission, Government of India. The table of contents is below. I plan to scan and OCR most of the papers in this book -- or all the papers if I have enough gumption. I have converted the introduction and 4 papers. See the 5 most recent files here: http://lenr-canr.org/FilesByDate.htm I will probably make a "Special Collection" for this, and I may gather all of the papers together in one large document. This is a lot of work. If anyone would like to assist in proof reading, please contact me by e-mail. - Jed - - - - - - - - - - - - CONTENTS Preface Summary A: ELECTROLYTIC CELL EXPERIMENTS A 1 Cold Fusion Experiments Using a Commercial Pd­Ni Electrolyser M.S. Krishnan, S.K. Malhotra, D.G. Gaonkar, M. Srinivasan, S.K. Sikka, A. Shyam, V. Chitra, T.S. Iyengar and P.K. Iyengar A 2 Preliminary Results of Cold Fusion Studies Using a Five Module High Current Electrolytic Cell M.G. Nayar, SK. Mitra, P. Raghunathan, M.S. Krishnan, S.K. Malhotra, D.G. Gaonkar, S.K. Sikka, A Shyam and V. Chitra A3 Observation of Cold Fusion in a Ti-SS Electrolytic Cell M.S. Krishnan, S.K. Malhotra, D.G. Gaonkar, M.G. Nayar, A. Shyam and S.K. Sikka A 4 Multiplicity Distribution of Neutron Emission in Cold Fusion Experiments A. Shyam, M. Srinivasan, S.B. Degwekar and L.V. Kulkarni A 5 Search for Electrochemically Catalysed Fusion of Deuterons in Metal Lattice T.P. Radhakrishnan, R. Sundaresan, J. Arunachalam, V. Sitarama Raju, R. Kalyanaraman, S Gangadharan and P.K. Iyengar A 6 Tritium Generation during Electrolysis Experiment T.P. Radhakrishnan, R. Sundaresan, S. Gangadharan, B.K. Sen, T.S. Murthy A 7 WITHDRAWN A 8 Verification Studies in Electrochemically Induced Fusion of Deuterons in Palladium Cathodes H. Bose, L.H. Prabhu, S. Sankarnarayanan, R.S. Shetiya, N. Veeraraghavan, P.V. Joshi, T.S. Murthy, B.K. Sen and K.G.B. Sharma A 9 Tritium Analysis of Samples Obtained from Various Electrolysis Experiments at BARC T.S. Murthy, T.S. Iyengar, B.K. Sen and T.B. Joseph A 10 Material Balance of Tritium in the Electrolysis of Heavy Water M.S. Krishnan, S.K. Malhotra and S.K. Sadhukhan A11 Technique for Concentration of Helium in Electrolytic Gases for Cold Fusion Studies K. Annaji Rao PART B: D2 GAS LOADING EXPERIMENTS B 1 Search for Nuclear Fusion in Gas Phase Deuteriding of Titanium Metal P. Raj, P. Suryanarayana, A. Sathyamoorthy and T. Datta B 2 Deuteration of Machined Titanium Targets for Cold Fusion Experiments V.K. Shrikande and K.C. Mittal B 3 Autoradiography of Deuterated Ti and Pd Targets for Spatially Resolved Detection of Tritium Produced by Cold Fusion R.K. Rout, M. Srinivasan and A. Shyam B 4 Evidence for Production of Tritium via Cold Fusion Reactions in Deuterium Gas Loaded Palladium M.S. Krishnan, S.K. Malhotra, D.G. Gaonkar, V.D. Nagvenkar and H.K. Sadhukhan PART C: THEORETICAL PAPERS C 1 Materials Issues in the So-Called 'Cold Fusion' Experiments R. Chidambaram and V.C. Sahni C 2 Remarks on Cold Fusion B.A. Dasannacharya and K.R. Rao C 3 The Role of Combined Electron-Deuteron Screening in D-D Fusion in Metals S.N. Vaidya and Y.S. Mayya C 4 A Theory of Cold Nuclear Fusion in Deuterium Loaded Palladium Swapan K. Ghosh, H.K. Saidhukhan and Ashish K. Dhara C 5 Fracture Phenomena in Crystalline Solids: A Brief Review in the Context of Cold Fusion T.C. Kaushik, M. Srinivasan and A. Shyam From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 14:38:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28McFmK003397; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:38:16 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k28McEFs003385; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:38:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:38:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <019301c64300$ff1cdb20$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-2200633816440142@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Coby CX1 TV Modification for (*e-) Electronium Search Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 23:37:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0610-1, 08/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66832 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ok I get the picture, thanks Fred, very interesting indeed. BTW for your replies-going-to-you-instead-of-to-the-list problem I checked the headers of one of your emails (extract below), they confirmed my hunch that the reply-to address setting in your email software was causing the problem: ... Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" ... the Reply-To field in your settings should be left empty as it is useless (by default replies go to the "from" address which is the same anyway), and it interferes with many mailing list software which don't seem to be able to override the poster's setting with their own reply-to (the list address), let me know if you need any help. Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 5:04 PM Subject: Re: Coby CX1 TV Modification for (*e-) Electronium Search > Michel Jullian writes: >> >> > If it exists it could be a major player in the quest for producing > useful >> > energy from Hot or Cold Fusion.. >> >> Ah now this talks to me ;) >> >> Thanks Fred for the explanations, I am afraid I am an ignoramus in > particle >> physics but I am willing to learn. >> >> 1/ What is the difference between (*e-) and Ps- exactly? They seem to be >> both composed of a positron and two electrons, why should one be more >> stable? > That is the question begging an answer, Michel. Under the right > conditions > the Ps- could form into a stable "Triad" particle. In chemistry some > reactions go to completion > while some don't. >> >> 2/ Why should the mass of the Electronium be twice that of the electron > and >> not thrice (e- e+ e-)? I imagine the mass default corresponds to a >> binding >> energy, but what kind of force would this be, surely not nuclear since > we're >> not talking about nucleons? > A mass 2 x electron mass (*e-) would be the rest mass result of a binding > energy loss equivalent to > the mass of an electron ie., 510 kev or the energy of three 170 kev > photons. > Most likely the mass would be more than twice and less than thrice. > > Fred >> >> Michel >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Frederick Sparber" >> To: "vortex-l" >> Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 12:44 PM >> Subject: Re: Coby CX1 TV Modification for (*e-) Electronium Search >> >> >> > Michel Jullian wrote. >> >> >> >>Tsss, watching TV too much and too close ;) >> >> >> >> Nice experiment, even though I haven't understood what you were >> >> looking >> >> for. >> >> >> > Valid question Michel. >> > About a year ago I proposed that Positronium formed by momentary > coupling >> > of >> > a positron and electron rather than annihilating into a pair of 0.51 >> > MeV >> > photons might couple >> > to an electron from any atom and form a stable "Triad" (e- e+ e-) aka >> > Electronium or (*e-) >> > giving off 3 photons of about 170 KeV each (which might be mistaken for >> > 3-photon >> > positron-electron annihilation and end as a stable/elusive particle > with a >> > mass about >> > 2+ that of "ordinary" electrons. >> > >> > Since then I found that there is a lot going on in the area of research >> > into the recently observed >> > Positronium Ion Ps- giving pause for one to wonder if the proposed > stable >> > (*e-) is being missed. >> > >> > >> > This experiment at the Max Planck Institute shows a setup for creating > Ps- >> > and >> > use of germanium detector for looking at annihilation photons but > doesn't >> > specify >> > their energy. Could the observed three-photon electron-positron >> > annihilation actually >> > be formation (the mass defect binding energy) of (*e-)? >> > >> > If so electronium could be ubiquitous in nature, albeit in small >> > numbers >> > wrt electrons >> > >> > If it exists it could be a major player in the quest for producing > useful >> > energy from Hot or Cold Fusion.. >> > >> > Fred >> > >> > http://www.mpi-hd.mpg.de/ato/psminus/ >> > "The object of our studies is one of these simple systems: the > Positronium >> > negative ion. This exotic entity is a bound state of a positron and two >> > electrons. It is similar to the negative ion of hydrogen (H-). In fact, > it >> > is the most simple three body problem imaginable. Its constituents are >> > pointlike particles (at least to the best of our knowledge) and there > are >> > no pertubations due to strong interactions to be considered. There has >> > been quite a lot of theoretical activity around Ps- but there is not > much >> > known experimentally. Only one experiment can be found in the > literature: >> > A.P. Mills observed the Positronium negative ion experimentally and > made a >> > first lifetime measurement. With an error of about 4% it is not >> > sufficiently precise to allow for a test a QED effects. A new > measurement >> > of the lifetime with improved precision is the first objective of this >> > project." >> > "To measure the spectra a Germanium detector at the temperature of > liquid >> > nitrogen detects the ? radiation from the decays of the positronium and >> > positronium ion." > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 15:32:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28NWWmP028073; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 15:32:33 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k28NWUCI028040; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 15:32:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 15:32:30 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060308183216.035135d0@mindspring.com> Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060308183110.034917a0@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 18:32:21 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Nature and the Patent Office attack Taleyarkhan Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66833 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What did you expect would happen? See: http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060306/full/060306-4.html - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 15:44:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k28NiJPP002601; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 15:44:20 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k28NiEL0002541; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 15:44:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 15:44:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20060308183358.01f18de8@localhost> X-Sender: mica%pop.theworld.com@127.0.0.1 (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 18:36:43 -0500 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Record Set for Hottest Temperature on Earth: 3.6 Billion Degrees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=10.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on pcls3.std.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1318/Tue Mar 7 15:55:18 2006 on pcls3.std.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66834 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Record Set for Hottest Temperature on Earth: 3.6 Billion Degrees in Lab ==================================================== "Scientists have produced superheated gas exceeding temperatures of 2 billion degrees Kelvin, or 3.6 billion degrees Fahrenheit. ...They don't know how they did it. .... It works by releasing 20 million amps of electricity into a vertical array of very fine tungsten wires. .... Sandia researchers still aren't sure how the machine achieved the new record." Excerpt and link at the COLD FUSION TIMES web site. http://world.std.com/~mica/cft.html From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 16:39:09 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k290cwte024818; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:38:59 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k290cviC024802; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:38:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:38:57 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <015f01c64311$d933bf30$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <6.1.2.0.2.20060308183358.01f18de8@localhost> Subject: Re: Record Set for Hottest Temperature on Earth: 3.6 Billion Degrees Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:38:54 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: <5dMCCC.A.eDG.hk3DEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66835 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mitchell, Thanks for bringing this up, as it would be an easy detail to gloss over in the news-overload which we are getting accustomed to seeing, even on "the fringe" but ironically it could have potential importance for some kinds of LENR experiments, given the availablility of ultracaps. > Record Set for Hottest Temperature on Earth: 2 Billion K Degrees > in Lab ==================================================== Since even a thermonuclear explosion would apparently reach only a few hundred million degrees Kelvin (measure at the same distance according to the article) - this is truly remarkable and can be interpreted to indicate that high current can be manipulated to be more energy-intense than nuclear fusion ~approximately 10 times hotter. How could that be ... unless the electron current itself is somehow able to attract "something" from another dimension? ... Dirac monopoles? > "Scientists have produced superheated gas exceeding temperatures > of 2 billion degrees Kelvin, or 3.6 billion degrees Fahrenheit. > ...They don't know how they did it. > .... It works by releasing 20 million amps of electricity into > a vertical array of very fine tungsten wires. > .... Sandia researchers still aren't sure how the machine > achieved the new record." > > > Excerpt and link at the COLD FUSION TIMES web site. > > http://world.std.com/~mica/cft.html > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 18:25:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k292PYEl001475; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 18:25:35 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k292PWxk001456; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 18:25:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 18:25:32 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Record Set for Hottest Temperature on Earth: 3.6 Billion Degrees Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 13:25:25 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <6f3v02huho3u65v7hkqifupo4acqdmav3d@4ax.com> References: <6.1.2.0.2.20060308183358.01f18de8@localhost> <015f01c64311$d933bf30$6401a8c0@NuDell> In-Reply-To: <015f01c64311$d933bf30$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta04sl.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Thu, 9 Mar 2006 02:25:24 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k292PT4V001391 Resent-Message-ID: <3V7mP.A.lW.cI5DEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66836 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Jones Beene's message of Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:38:54 -0800: Hi, [snip] >Mitchell, > >Thanks for bringing this up, as it would be an easy detail to >gloss over in the news-overload which we are getting accustomed to >seeing, even on "the fringe" but ironically it could have >potential importance for some kinds of LENR experiments, given the >availablility of ultracaps. > >> Record Set for Hottest Temperature on Earth: 2 Billion K Degrees >> in Lab > ==================================================== > >Since even a thermonuclear explosion would apparently reach only a >few hundred million degrees Kelvin (measure at the same distance >according to the article) - this is truly remarkable and can be >interpreted to indicate that high current can be manipulated to be >more energy-intense than nuclear fusion ~approximately 10 times >hotter. > >How could that be ... unless the electron current itself is >somehow able to attract "something" from another dimension? > >... Dirac monopoles? [snip] 2E9 K is an average energy of only 1.7E5 eV. All this means is that many of the nuclei were involved in a nuclear reaction under influence from the intense electron current. I submit that a process akin to that claimed by http://www.proton21.com.ua/index_en.html may be responsible for transforming many of the nuclei in one hit. If each nucleus were to contribute e.g. 1.7 MeV, then only 10% would need to undergo such a transformation in order to yield the observed results. BTW perhaps negative pions can be built out of electrons, and pions are well known for their strong interaction with nuclei. ;) Such pions may also be the building blocks for Ken Shoulders' EVs. (By extension of the construction process previously described). BTW2 the requirement for 1/alpha smaller toroids to build the next one up in scale, results from the need to keep the velocity about both minor and major radius identical i.e. alpha x c, for all toroids. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 19:46:02 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k293jaXs032211; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 19:45:36 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k293jY2E032197; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 19:45:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 19:45:34 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060309034529333.516D13400082@mwinf3116.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060309034530.009c5f10@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 03:45:30 +0000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Nature and the Patent Office attack Taleyarkhan Resent-Message-ID: <-ch6GB.A.92H.dT6DEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66837 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:32 pm 08/03/2006 -0500, Jed wrote: > What did you expect would happen? See: > > http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060306/full/060306-4.html > >- Jed See also this report from the Register. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/03/08/bubble_fusion_stink/ - Grimer From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 19:49:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k293nGsE001229; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 19:49:16 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k293nE1x001214; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 19:49:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 19:49:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20060308183358.01f18de8@localhost> References: <6.1.2.0.2.20060308183358.01f18de8@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <0DA7537B-AB1F-462C-B421-337D3833D3B4@mtaonline.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Record Set for Hottest Temperature on Earth: 3.6 Billion Degrees Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 18:49:08 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: <6AzhNC.A.0S.6W6DEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66838 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mar 8, 2006, at 2:36 PM, Mitchell Swartz wrote: > > Record Set for Hottest Temperature on Earth: 3.6 Billion Degrees in > Lab > ==================================================== > "Scientists have produced superheated gas exceeding temperatures of > 2 billion degrees Kelvin, or 3.6 billion degrees > Fahrenheit. ...They don't know how they did it. The result may be due to establishing an efficient nuclear heat sampling regime that taps zero point energy from the nuclei. See: http://mtaonline.net/~hheffner/HeisenbergTraps.pdf Eliminating tungsten increases the mean velocity of the remaining iron atoms, and reduces the number of atoms not completely stripped of electrons. It also increases the nuclear heat, for the W atoms replaced, from 5.5 billion deg. K to 12.2 billion deg. K. Increasing the wire thickness increases the current density and charge density in the pinch, thus making for a much better nuclear sampling sampling rate, i.e. rate of electron interactions with Fe nuclei that remove nuclear heat. The effects are exponential, because the hot electrons resulting from one sampling are even better at sampling the next nucleus encountered. All the above synergies work in a combined way to produce surprising results. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 21:13:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k295DEfY000797; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 21:13:18 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k295DCBA000774; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 21:13:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 21:13:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=RCa/rJDJzsXcsiUWL7nKNoXsIbvmsDDhxFhAfhJlsMpF7EzeQEXN7wxvgaXhg9nl; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200634951258522@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Coby CX1 TV Modification for (*e-) Electronium Search Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 22:12:58 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9400209e89fd74b0bf0067bdddf54e96ae8350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.46 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66839 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Note from Frank Stenger 03-08-06: Personally I prefer the Pink Panther. :-) Fred OK, Fred, I tried the horizontal coil disconnection thing with this result: 1. I unsoldered the black lead from the horz. def. coil (HDC) and inserted a microswitch in series with the circuit. 2. This let me quickly cut out the HDC to see what would happen. 3. Interestingly, with NO vertical deflection field, when I cut out the HDC, the high voltage system shut down - as you had expected. However, in the blink of an eye this happened: a) The HDC drive decayed first - much faster than the plate voltages in the tube. This collapsed the horizontal trace into a MUCH brighter spot at screen center. b) Then, as the main accelerating voltage drained from the tube, the spot slowly dimmed but was visible for a minute or so. 4. Now, with the DC VERTICAL DEFLECTION ON: a) First, the "a" above was the same - just near the top of the screen - but now, b) Since the vertical deflection field was still on, as the electron velocity dropped, the spot described a bright vertical "comet" trace up and off the top of the screen. c) The important point is - this split second spot/vertical trace is super bright for just an instant. This is what I had hoped for. The same thing should happen for our "rogue" trace if it existed somewhere below the normal electron spot. 5. I also added a screen mask as per "Fredenstein's" suggestion which only showed a narrow rectangle in the central upper screen section. This was not really much of a help - the problem is not so much the dim screen glow bothering your eyes, rather more of just a local washing out of any tiny spot - even with the mask in place. All this did give me a little bit of the astronomer's "blink microscope" effect they used to use to look for new astronomical bodies. Alas, I still saw no sign of action in the "hot" zone as I blinked the trace on and off. Fred, I think it's time for me to put the little Coby back together and join you in watching the Flintstones! Frank ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Note from Frank Stenger 03-08-06:
 
Personally I prefer the Pink Panther.  :-)
 
Fred
 
OK, Fred, I tried the horizontal coil disconnection thing with
this result:
1. I unsoldered the black lead from the horz. def. coil (HDC)
and inserted a microswitch in series with the circuit.
 
2. This let me quickly cut out the HDC to see what would happen.
 
3. Interestingly, with NO vertical deflection field, when I cut out
the HDC, the high voltage system shut down - as you had
expected. However, in the blink of an eye this happened:
a) The HDC drive decayed first - much faster than the
plate voltages in the tube. This collapsed the horizontal
trace into a MUCH brighter spot at screen center.
b) Then, as the main accelerating voltage drained from the
tube, the spot slowly dimmed but was visible for a minute
or so.
4. Now, with the DC VERTICAL DEFLECTION ON:
a) First, the "a" above was the same - just near
the top of the screen - but now,
b) Since the vertical deflection field was still on,
as the electron velocity dropped, the spot described
a bright vertical "comet" trace up and off the top of
the screen.
c) The important point is - this split second spot/vertical trace
is super bright for just an instant. This is what I had hoped
for. The same thing should happen for our "rogue" trace
if it existed somewhere below the normal electron spot.
5. I also added a screen mask as per "Fredenstein's" suggestion
which only showed a narrow rectangle in the central upper
screen section. This was not really much of a help - the problem
is not so much the dim screen glow bothering your eyes, rather
more of just a local washing out of any tiny spot - even with the
mask in place.
 
All this did give me a little bit of the astronomer's "blink microscope"
effect they used to use to look for new astronomical bodies.
Alas, I still saw no sign of action in the "hot" zone as I blinked the
trace on and off.
 
Fred, I think it's time for me to put the little Coby back together and
join you in watching the Flintstones!
 
Frank ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 21:27:40 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k295RRUF007549; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 21:27:27 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k295ROLl007522; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 21:27:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 21:27:24 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060309052705752.B7C771C00083@mwinf3203.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060309052707.009cf974@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 05:27:07 +0000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Record Set for Hottest Temperature on Earth: 3.6 Billion Degrees Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66840 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:49 pm 08/03/2006 -0900, Horace wrote: > On Mar 8, 2006, at 2:36 PM, Mitchell Swartz wrote: > >> >> Record Set for Hottest Temperature on Earth: 3.6 Billion Degrees in >> Lab >> ==================================================== >> "Scientists have produced superheated gas exceeding temperatures of >> 2 billion degrees Kelvin, or 3.6 billion degrees >> Fahrenheit. ...They don't know how they did it. > > > The result may be due to establishing an efficient nuclear heat > sampling regime that taps zero point energy from the nuclei. See: > > http://mtaonline.net/~hheffner/HeisenbergTraps.pdf I was very interested in the following para. from the above paper of yours, Horace. ------------------------------------------------ This has to happen without cracking the lattice, which is apparently the difficult part. When the lattice cracks the gas in the vicinity leaks and confinement is ended. Large parts of an electrode volume have cracks and thus there is a steady flow of hydrogen into and out of a cathode, which precludes electron trapping in those volumes. ------------------------------------------------ This ties in rather neatly with the generation of Beta-atmosphere vacua in the cavitation spaces that form when specimens of ductile metals, such as mild steel, are pulled apart in tension tests. Passing a massive current through wires is equivalent to failing them by axi-symmetric pressure (shades of Percy Bridgman) which is equivalent to tension and the basis of the indirect tension test invented at the Building Research Station. Goodness me - Maybe they are the first people to have achieved demonstrable cold fusion. What a laugh. 8-) And though superficially that suggestion might seem like an oxymoron, it isn't. I suspect what is happening is that the failing of the wires in effective tension is opening up very high Beta-atmosphere vacua cavities in which nuclear processes are taking place. In other words things are cold initially and only heat up when the nuclear cavity reactions have taken place. One only needs to examine the nuclear ash left behind after the experiment to prove this one way or the other. Cheers, Frank Grimer From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 21:32:56 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k295WfYH009979; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 21:32:42 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k295Wd3U009951; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 21:32:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 21:32:39 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=ZdczihzilAiyETK3Bq+bPpo3n8lxQPVkUporuXwP+WyA2lV+xJ+FabLcBykC3ds7; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200634953228475@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Record Set for Hottest Temperature on Earth: 3.6 Billion Degrees Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 22:32:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94066b53326f62615c33551f1aede3dee43350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.46 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66841 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20060308/sc_space/recordsetforhottesttemperatureonearth36billiondegreesinlab Surprising that Sandia reahed conditions that cause annihilation and releasing the annihilation radiation signature of positrons-electrons stored in the nucleons of the wire materials. But a closer fit to the (3.6e9 K ~ 310 KeV gammas) annihilation signature for the (*e-) stored in a neutron in place of an electron. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
 
Surprising that Sandia reahed conditions that cause annihilation
and releasing the annihilation radiation signature of positrons-electrons
stored in the nucleons of the wire materials.
 
But a closer fit to the  (3.6e9 K ~ 310 KeV gammas) annihilation signature for the (*e-) stored
in a neutron in place of an electron.
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 22:41:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k296exXF004208; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 22:41:00 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k296euvH004168; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 22:40:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 22:40:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=nK6QbE5OcRlP/u8Jfwaz1RNZej9LZFaaWYMc9H71Qp+Rfi9d+c25s3JjmwUyUyFA; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200634964046441@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Record Set for Hottest Temperature on Earth: 3.6 Billion Degrees Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 23:40:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9403068baebc181d0fbb6af3cacf33b9d07350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.11 Resent-Message-ID: <6TqW7B.A.8AB.338DEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66842 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII OTOH, 2 billion degrees Kelvin is about 172 KeV the three-photon energy thought to be released when the (*e-) Electronium particle is formed from coupling of Positronium with an electron. Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 3/8/2006 10:33:14 PM Subject: Re: Record Set for Hottest Temperature on Earth: 3.6 Billion Degrees http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20060308/sc_space/recordsetforhottesttemperatureonearth36billiondegreesinlab Surprising that Sandia reached conditions that cause annihilation and releasing the annihilation radiation signature of positrons-electrons stored in the nucleons of the wire materials. But a closer fit to the (3.6e9 K ~ 310 KeV gammas) annihilation signature for the (*e-) stored in a neutron in place of an electron. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
OTOH, 2 billion degrees Kelvin is about 172 KeV  the three-photon energy
thought to be released when the (*e-) Electronium particle is formed from
coupling of Positronium with an electron.
 
Fred
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 3/8/2006 10:33:14 PM
Subject: Re: Record Set for Hottest Temperature on Earth: 3.6 Billion Degrees

 
Surprising that Sandia reached conditions that cause annihilation
and releasing the annihilation radiation signature of positrons-electrons
stored in the nucleons of the wire materials.
 
But a closer fit to the  (3.6e9 K ~ 310 KeV gammas) annihilation signature for the (*e-) stored
in a neutron in place of an electron.
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 8 22:47:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k296l6Li007282; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 22:47:07 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k296l4F1007262; Wed, 8 Mar 2006 22:47:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 22:47:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 01:42:06 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Hidden Magnetism In Superconductivity In-reply-to: <032401c64341$bddeac60$0200a8c0@annamtk4mddkrq> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66843 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Source: Los Alamos National Laboratory Posted: March 8, 2006 Research Reveals Hidden Magnetism In Superconductivity While studying a compound made of the elements cerium- rhodium-indium, researchers at Los Alamos National Laboratory and the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign have discovered that a magnetic state can coexist with superconductivity in a specific temperature and pressure range. The discovery is a step toward a deeper understanding of how Nature is organized in regimes ranging from the fabric of the cosmos to the most fundamental components of elementary particles. In research published recently in the scientific journal Nature, Los Alamos scientists Tuson Park, Joe D. Thompson, and their colleagues describe the discovery of hidden magnetism in the CeRhIn5 compound. In studying the compound, researchers found that a purely unconventional superconducting phase is separated from a phase of coexisting magnetism and unconventional superconductivity, with the boundary between these two phases controlled by the laws of quantum physics. Unconventional superconductors are materials that exhibit superconductivity, a complete absence of electrical resistance under cold temperatures, but use exotic mechanisms. Conventional wisdom has long held that the magnetism is excluded as materials change phases, but the researchers now show that it is merely hidden by unconventional superconductivity and can be made to reappear in the presence of an applied magnetic field. According to Thompson, "this discovery provides an exciting opportunity to better understand how magnetism and unconventional superconductivity are related in more-complex materials and may reveal more about the technologically important field of high temperature superconductors." At low temperatures, electrons in a metal can pair with each other to create superconductivity, align in a magnetically ordered state, or do neither. Until recently, these mutually exclusive options for electrons were the norm, but the discovery of complex electronic materials like CeRhIn5, which can sustain more exotic forms of superconductivity, now shows that electrons can participate simultaneously in magnetism and superconductivity. ### In addition to Park and Thompson, the research team included Filip Ronning, Roman Movshovich, and John Sarrao from Los Alamos, along with Huiqiu Yuan and Myron Salamon, from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. The work was supported by the United States Department of Energy's Office of Basic Energy Sciences and the National Science Foundation. Editor's Note: The original news release can be found here From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 02:42:50 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29Ae1RG029386; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 02:42:44 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k29AZ0RH027387; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 02:35:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 02:35:00 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060309023749.028f8f40@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 02:37:57 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: Media tracking of Bubble Fusion Story Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_1442865921==.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66844 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=====================_1442865921==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The New York Times breaks a preview of the main story 23 hours ago University to Investigate Fusion Study http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/08/science/08fusion.html Nature breaks the full story with a 4-part splash 14 hours ago. A sound investment? http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060306/full/060306-4.html Bubble fusion: silencing the hype http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060306/full/060306-1.html Is bubble fusion simply hot air? http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060306/full/060306-2.html Bubble bursts for table-top fusion http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060306/full/060306-3.html Reuters runs this erroneous lead 13 hours ago, based on the Nature story, and starts to call it cold fusion: University checks "bubble fusion" fraud claim WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Purdue University is investigating complaints about a scientist who claimed to have achieved "cold fusion" using sound waves to make bubbles in a test tube, the university said on Wednesday. http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/NewsArticle.aspx?type=scienceNews&storyID=2006-03-08T140246Z_01_N0836255_RTRIDST_0_SCIENCE-SCIENCE-FUSION-DC.XML Then, 11 hours ago, CNN repackages the same Reuters story and calls it cold fusion in the title Purdue probes 'cold fusion' fraud claim http://edition.cnn.com/2006/TECH/science/03/08/fusion.probe.reut/ UPI picked up the story 7 hours ago, apparently based off the NYT story. http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060308-112608-2313r Purdue investigates professor's research AP does their own original reporting and puts their story out 4 hours ago: Purdue probes 'tabletop fusion' study http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/living/health/14050194.htm At about 23 hours after the first NYT story broke, Google News reports that this story has appeared in 54 news outlets. Based on a very quick analysis, only four outlets apparently have done original reporting on this story and everyone else is ripping and reading it. 2 of the 3 wire services apparently did not do original reporting. DAY 2 Washington Post (Perhaps the most best report so far) T+24hrs EST Tabletop Fusion' Research Under Review http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/08/AR2006030802052.html NYT does follow-up story at T+24hrs EST Scientist Says He Stands by Fusion Data http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/09/science/09fusion.html LA Times has several direct and indirect allegations of fraud from Suslick and Putterman. Perhaps the most slanderous and inaccurate article so far. T+25hrs College Reviews Physicist's Tabletop Fusion Claims http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-sci-fusion9mar09,1,2142402.story?coll=la-news-a_section Indianapolis Star T+25hrs Purdue scientist is under scrutiny http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060309/NEWS01/603090431/1006/NEWS01 Boston Globe reprints Reuters story, reuses CNN title T+25hrs Purdue investigates scientist over 'cold fusion' claims http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/03/09/purdue_investigates_scientist_over_cold_fusion_claims/ Google News reports a total of 67 stories at T+30hrs EST --=====================_1442865921==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" The New York Times breaks a preview of the main story 23 hours ago
University to Investigate Fusion Study
 http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/08/science/08fusion.html

Nature breaks the full story with a 4-part splash 14 hours ago.
A sound investment?
 http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060306/full/060306-4.html
Bubble fusion: silencing the hype
 http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060306/full/060306-1.html
Is bubble fusion simply hot air?
 http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060306/full/060306-2.html
Bubble bursts for table-top fusion
 http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060306/full/060306-3.html

Reuters runs this erroneous lead 13 hours ago, based on the Nature story, and starts to call it cold fusion:
University checks "bubble fusion" fraud claim
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Purdue University is investigating complaints about a scientist who claimed to have achieved "cold fusion" using sound waves to make bubbles in a test tube, the university said on Wednesday.
http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/NewsArticle.aspx?type=scienceNews&storyID=2006-03-08T140246Z_01_N0836255_RTRIDST_0_SCIENCE-SCIENCE-FUSION-DC.XML

Then, 11 hours ago, CNN repackages the same Reuters story and calls it cold fusion in the title
Purdue probes 'cold fusion' fraud claim
 http://edition.cnn.com/2006/TECH/science/03/08/fusion.probe.reut/

UPI picked up the story 7 hours ago, apparently based off the NYT story.
http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060308-112608-2313r
Purdue investigates professor's research

AP does their own original reporting and puts their story out 4 hours ago:
Purdue probes 'tabletop fusion' study
 http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/living/health/14050194.htm

At about 23 hours after the first NYT story broke, Google News reports that this story has appeared in 54 news outlets.
Based on a very quick analysis, only four outlets apparently have done original reporting on this story and everyone else is ripping and reading it.
2 of the 3 wire services apparently did not do original reporting.

DAY 2

Washington Post (Perhaps the most best report so far) T+24hrs EST
Tabletop Fusion' Research Under Review
 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/08/AR2006030802052.html

NYT does follow-up story at T+24hrs EST
Scientist Says He Stands by Fusion Data
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/09/science/09fusion.html

LA Times has several direct and indirect allegations of fraud from Suslick and Putterman.  Perhaps the most slanderous and inaccurate article so far. T+25hrs
College Reviews Physicist's Tabletop Fusion Claims 
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-sci-fusion9mar09,1,2142402.story?coll=la-news-a_section

Indianapolis Star T+25hrs
Purdue scientist is under scrutiny
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060309/NEWS01/603090431/1006/NEWS01

Boston Globe reprints Reuters story, reuses CNN title  T+25hrs
Purdue investigates scientist over 'cold fusion' claims
 http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/03/09/purdue_investigates_scientist_over_cold_fusion_claims/

Google News reports a total of 67 stories at T+30hrs EST


--=====================_1442865921==.ALT-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 05:43:34 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29De99g006669; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 05:43:27 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k29DJWFQ028974; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 05:19:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 05:19:32 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060309131920943.16FF29000084@mwinf3207.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060309131922.009af1e0@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 13:19:22 +0000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Record Set for Hottest Temperature on Earth: 3.6 Billion Degrees Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66846 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 05:27 am 09/03/2006 +0000, you wrote: >At 06:49 pm 08/03/2006 -0900, Horace wrote: > >> On Mar 8, 2006, at 2:36 PM, Mitchell Swartz wrote: >> >>> >>> Record Set for Hottest Temperature on Earth: 3.6 Billion Degrees in >>> Lab >>> ==================================================== >>> "Scientists have produced superheated gas exceeding temperatures of >>> 2 billion degrees Kelvin, or 3.6 billion degrees >>> Fahrenheit. ...They don't know how they did it. >> >> >> The result may be due to establishing an efficient nuclear heat >> sampling regime that taps zero point energy from the nuclei. See: >> >> http://mtaonline.net/~hheffner/HeisenbergTraps.pdf > > >I was very interested in the following para. from the above >paper of yours, Horace. > > ------------------------------------------------ > This has to happen without cracking the lattice, > which is apparently the difficult part. > When the lattice cracks the gas in the vicinity > leaks and confinement is ended. Large parts of > an electrode volume have cracks and thus there > is a steady flow of hydrogen into and out of a > cathode, which precludes > electron trapping in those volumes. > ------------------------------------------------ > >This ties in rather neatly with the generation of Beta-atmosphere >vacua in the cavitation spaces that form when specimens of ductile >metals, such as mild steel, are pulled apart in tension tests. > >Passing a massive current through wires is equivalent to failing >them by axi-symmetric pressure (shades of Percy Bridgman) which is >equivalent to tension and the basis of the indirect tension test >invented at the Building Research Station. > >Goodness me - Maybe they are the first people to have achieved >demonstrable cold fusion. What a laugh. 8-) > >And though superficially that suggestion might seem like an >oxymoron, it isn't. > >I suspect what is happening is that the failing of the wires >in effective tension is opening up very high Beta-atmosphere >vacua cavities in which nuclear processes are taking place. >In other words things are cold initially and only heat up when >the nuclear cavity reactions have taken place. > >One only needs to examine the nuclear ash left behind after >the experiment to prove this one way or the other. > >Cheers, > >Frank Grimer When I wrote the above reply to Horace's post I hadn't actually read Mitchell Swartz's excerpt [honest Injun 8-) ]. which says:- ============================================ Record Set for Hottest Temperature on Earth: 3.6 Billion Degrees in Lab -------------------------------------------- "Scientists have produced superheated gas exceeding temperatures of 2 billion degrees Kelvin, or 3.6 billion degrees Fahrenheit. ...They don't know how they did it. .... It works by releasing 20 million amps of electricity into a vertical array of very fine tungsten wires. .... Sandia researchers still aren't sure how the machine achieved the new record." ============================================ This morning I read the whole thing - It says:- ============================================= http://world.std.com/~mica/cft.html --------------------------------------------- .... Sandia researchers still aren’t sure how the machine achieved the new record. Part of it is probably due to the replacement of the tungsten steel wires with slightly thicker steel wires, which allow the plasma ions to travel faster and thus achieve higher temperatures. ============================================= Tungsten steel ain't tungsten - It's steel - as can be seen from the following dictionary definition. ============================================ Tungsten steel (Metal.), a variety of steel containing a small amount of tungsten, and noted for its tenacity and hardness, as well as for its malleability and tempering qualities. It is also noted for its magnetic properties. ============================================ And that is as good a description one could wish for a material which will cavitate under tensile stress. If they make the wires even thicker they might even break the record again. 8-) Cheers, Frank Grimer P.S. It would be interesting to find out how to control the current stretching of the wire so as to freeze the cavities. I suspect that weighing the wires might show a loss over what it should be due to the presence of Beta-atmosphere vacua. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 06:02:19 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29E1v6q028619; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:01:57 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k29E1tql028596; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:01:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:01:55 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <001301c64382$008d5670$0d027841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: Re: Media tracking of Bubble Fusion Story Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:01:44 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C6434F.B51864F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2005-06-05) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.5 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66847 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C6434F.B51864F0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C6434F.B51864F0" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C6434F.B51864F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankWinestone wrote.. >Like I tell people all the time; the ONLY way to prove that any of the = Low Energy Nuclear Reactions actually work in a practical sense, is to = quickly incorporate each into a simple prototype working device. = Scientists - especially the closed-minded (non-intuitive) ones - can = spend endless hours debating how many angels can dance on a pinhead, but = when an actual physical device is operating continuously according to = what looks like a new paradigm, it's very difficult to argue that the = reason for the original results of the bench study was that the test = tube was dirty. Howdy Philip, The tides of time have a way of "flushing" the estuaries of science. = Overlooked in the reports are the undercurrents of interest by the = science community. Steven Krivit of New Energy Times again demonstrates = integrity, class and style with his factual reporting and analysis by = listing the chronology of the " breaking" stories. The accelerating = interest in new energy research is the " story". The trials and = tribulations of one scientist is irrelevant. Let facts be submitted to a candid world. We can handle the facts. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C6434F.B51864F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Winestone wrote..

>Like I tell people all the time; the ONLY way to prove that any = of the=20 Low Energy Nuclear Reactions actually work in a practical sense, is to = quickly=20 incorporate each into a simple prototype working device.  = Scientists -=20 especially the closed-minded (non-intuitive) ones - can spend endless = hours=20 debating how many angels can dance on a pinhead, but when an actual = physical=20 device is operating continuously according to what looks like a new = paradigm,=20 it's very difficult to argue that the reason for the original results of = the=20 bench study was that the test tube was dirty.

Howdy Philip,

The tides of time have a way of "flushing" the estuaries of science.=20 Overlooked in the reports are the undercurrents of interest by the = science=20 community. Steven Krivit of New Energy Times again demonstrates  = integrity,=20 class and style  with his factual reporting and analysis by = listing=20 the chronology of the " breaking" stories. The accelerating interest in = new=20 energy research is the " story". The trials and tribulations of one = scientist is=20 irrelevant.

Let facts be submitted to a candid world. We can handle the = facts.

Richard

------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C6434F.B51864F0-- ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C6434F.B51864F0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000e01c64381$ff9d5120$0d027841@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C6434F.B51864F0-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 06:12:04 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29EBYQs003280; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:11:35 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k29EBUK9003238; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:11:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:11:30 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=bS7rjYJjYdnUBPw/Ih+fQPRrWIXfY5k44E8QmMhcyOn+3iGGYQH7gNQciRTnYfr+; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006349141117492@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re; A Seasoned Scientist on Controlled Fusion Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:11:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9400186d7df0a7bf46b3396e6c42a899556350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.24 Resent-Message-ID: <-DJlbC.A.by.SeDEEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66848 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I quote: ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "I am not sure that I have ever mentioned it to you, but controlled fusion has been a real problem with me for over 40 years. I was involved in some of the first meetings where this crap was first promulgated. I told them then that they were full of shit, because they had not the slightest notion about how to achieve it. It is hugely important to understand the difference between science and science fiction. A good scientific problem is one that is just slightly outside of our "sphere of understanding" -- it's far enough out that success expands our "sphere", but it's close enough in that you have a pretty good idea about how to solve it. Science fiction is stuff that is so far outside the sphere that you have no idea as to what the path to the solution might be. These guys have now spent billions of dollars producing nothing and most often clogging the literature with nonsense. I guess that you know that my field of research was surface physics. One of the most amusing (but so sad) results of the fusion program was when the Princeton folks found that radiation from their plasma was desorbing gas from the walls of their vacuum chamber -- a problem that was easily predictable, and was predicted. Overnight, they were throwing millions of dollars at completely unqualified and inexperienced people who were trying to do surface physics. Their work was nonsense, but it corrupted the literature for years. These billions of dollars that have been spent have mostly caused good people to waste their talent on bad problems." End quote. ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
I quote:
 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"I am not sure that I have ever mentioned it to you, but controlled fusion
has been a real problem with me for over 40 years. I was involved in some
of the first meetings where this crap was first promulgated. I told them
then that they were full of shit, because they had not the slightest notion
about how to achieve it.
 
It is hugely important to understand the difference between science and
science fiction. A good scientific problem is one that is just slightly
outside of our "sphere of understanding" -- it's far enough out that success
expands our "sphere", but it's close enough in that you have a pretty good
idea about how to solve it. Science fiction is stuff that is so far outside
the sphere that you have no idea as to what the path to the solution might
be.
 
These guys have now spent billions of dollars producing nothing and most
often clogging the literature with nonsense.
 
I guess that you know that my field of research was surface physics. One of
the most amusing (but so sad) results of the fusion program was when the
Princeton folks found that radiation from their plasma was desorbing gas
from the walls of their vacuum chamber -- a problem that was easily
predictable, and was predicted. Overnight, they were throwing millions of
dollars at completely unqualified and inexperienced people who were trying
to do surface physics. Their work was nonsense, but it corrupted the
literature for years.
 
These billions of dollars that have been spent have mostly caused good
people to waste their talent on bad problems."
 
End quote.
 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 07:11:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29FAxAY001828; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:11:00 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k29FAwQ4001812; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:10:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:10:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:10:53 -0500 Message-Id: <8C811A2CB117514-1414-854E@mblkn-m07.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <2.2.32.20060309052707.009cf974@pop.freeserve.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.20060309052707.009cf974@pop.freeserve.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Record Set for Hottest Temperature on Earth: 3.6 Billion Degrees Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.71 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66850 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Grimer Goodness me - Maybe they are the first people to have achieved demonstrable cold fusion. What a laugh. 8-) <><><><><><><><> Or, the first could have been metal plating companies who caused embrittlement of ferrite metal alloys. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 07:18:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29FIVXL005252; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:18:31 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k29FISSL005230; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:18:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:18:28 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <004201c6438c$b6899470$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <001301c64382$008d5670$0d027841@xptower> <6.1.1.1.1.20060309093700.01d7bee8@pop> Subject: Re: Media tracking of Bubble Fusion Story Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:18:24 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: <_mB4GB.A.qRB.EdEEEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66851 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Another huge problem with the bulk of media coverage on this story is that even if Taleyarkhan or someone else turns out to be a "bad apple" in terms of credibility, which may indded be the 'proximate' case... ...they failed to look at the numerous other work in the field - some of it superior in a number of ways - PLUS - just like the case with the BBC using Putterman, as their agent-provocateur, who it turned-out was also a likely jealous-suitor with a "competing" device (LENR but claimed to "really" be hot fusion) this new whistle blower has one too ... ...did you (or the media) pick up on that little detail ?? Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 07:54:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29FsZKd023693; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:54:35 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k29FsWmh023662; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:54:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:54:32 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060309155429349.555A81C00089@mwinf3007.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060309155431.009dbb8c@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 15:54:31 +0000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Record Set for Hottest Temperature on Earth: 3.6 Billion Degrees Resent-Message-ID: <91a0VC.A.mxF.4-EEEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66852 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:10 am 09/03/2006 -0500, Terry wrote: > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Grimer >> >> Goodness me - Maybe they are the first people to >> have achieved demonstrable cold fusion. What a laugh. 8-) <><><><><><><><> > Or, the first could have been metal plating companies > who caused embrittlement of ferrite metal alloys. > > Terry Well spotted. Must be a common thing to discover that something has been incipiently discovered before. Perhaps one should name it the Newlands syndrome in honour of the man who should have been credited with the discovery of the Periodic Table. ================================================== On 1st March 1865, he described his ideas at a lecture at the Chemical Society (a forerunner of the Royal Society of Chemistry). The lack of spaces for undiscovered elements and the placing of two elements in one box were justifiably criticised but an unfair suggestion from Professor Foster was that he might have equally well listed the elements alphabetically. Foster was on the Publication Committee which refused to publish his paper, supposedly because it was of a purely theoretical nature. Humiliated, Newlands went back to his work as chief chemist at a sugar factory. ================================================== Frank From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 08:13:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29GDWtM000914; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:13:33 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k29GDURk000883; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:13:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:13:30 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <007301c64394$65fbf630$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <001301c64382$008d5670$0d027841@xptower> <6.1.1.1.1.20060309093700.01d7bee8@pop> <004201c6438c$b6899470$6401a8c0@NuDell> Subject: Re: Media tracking of Bubble Fusion Story Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:13:25 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: <1W-a9D.A.vN.pQFEEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66853 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sorry previous message went out a little on the unripe side... > ...did you (or the media) pick up on that little detail ?? ...should have been a little clearer on the identity of another possible "bad apple" ... or is that "bad orange" ... "Mr. Naranjo [the whistle blower] said that the pattern of particles seen in the experiment much more closely matched that given off by californium, a radioactive element that is used in Dr. Taleyarkhan's laboratory." The press ran this blurb almost without question, even though Mr. Naranjo is an undergrad who is working with Putterman on a competing device and even though this new Taleyarkhan report was extremely embarrassing to Putterman, due to his BBC 'slime job'... now totally discredited. Not to mention the "pattern of particles" [sic] does NOT match californium, but I guess the media was a bit to lazy to check with someone other than an undergrad working on a competing project It should be noted that "With $350,000 from the Defense Department, Seth J. Putterman, a professor of physics at U.C.L.A. is the thesis adviser to Mr. Naranjo," and 'reportedly' has tried to build a replica of Dr. Taleyarkhan's apparatus but has not seen any signs of fusion, YET he has his own competing LENR device which he claims does work ... and he is trying to distance himself from Taleyarkhan's sonofusion device... which BTW is far more robust, than Putterman's and has far greater potential to commercialize. Academic jealousy is slimier than anything on the morning soap operas... Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 08:53:18 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29Go9ka021625; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:53:03 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k29GfvZ6016907; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:41:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:41:57 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <001001c64398$5b1a0640$0d027841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: Re: Media Tracking Bubble Fusion Story Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:41:45 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C64366.0FFAAED0"; type="multipart/alternative" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2005-06-05) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.5 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Resent-Message-ID: <4Ckd9C.A.DIE.UrFEEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66854 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C64366.0FFAAED0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000D_01C64366.0FFAAED0" ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C64366.0FFAAED0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankHowdy Vorts, Surely science can handle criticism and objectivity ,helps keep honest = people honest. Interesting last summer we watched a science phenomena demonstrating two = of the largest vortexes fully documented. Hurricanes Katrina and Rita. I didn't read any reports of skeptism from = the newsmedia. Apparently they considered the science acceptable and " = natural". They didn't say anything about " reproducibility in an = independent lab". The hurricane eye was some 20 plus miles in diameter with a pronounced = eye wall extending upward to 30k plus feet. Not only did these huge = vortex exist, they were videotaped and stayed active for days. Some = along the gulf coast learned the hard way what happens if you are in the = path. The people in NOLA are first person testimony the " thing" was = real and not an illusion of science or makebelieve. Granted fraud can invade pure science but some things one can take to = the bank. Consider what you witnessed when viewing the TV video of the = eyewall of the vortex. The event is reproducible, it can be measured and = the results are destruction on a grand scale. NO one claims fraud or = deception. At our small test facility we have succeeded in reproducing a vortex in = water that matches a tornado shaped funnel including the occasional " = snake that strikes" event resulting in a cavitation "pitting". This = vortex is highly unstable.=20 Of more interest to us is we have been able to reproduce a hurricane = type vortex that resembles an eyewall type vortex that is very stable. = We merely increased the rotational speed from 3500 to 6500 rpm. This = cortex is a near perfect cylinder of equal diameter top to bottom. We are all growing boys and girls and know that viewing an eyewall of a = hurricane is an optical illusion because nobody can explain = scientifically how the wall can form and sustain. But again, I see and = hear lotsa things I find unbelievable even after getting my fingers = burned. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C64366.0FFAAED0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Howdy Vorts,
 
Surely science can handle criticism and  objectivity ,helps = keep=20 honest people honest.
 
Interesting last summer we watched a science phenomena = demonstrating two of=20 the largest vortexes fully documented.
Hurricanes Katrina and Rita. I didn't read any reports of skeptism = from the=20 newsmedia. Apparently they considered the science acceptable and " = natural".=20 They didn't say anything about " reproducibility in an independent = lab".
 
The hurricane eye was some 20 plus miles in diameter with a = pronounced eye=20 wall extending upward to 30k plus feet. Not only did these huge vortex = exist,=20 they were videotaped and stayed active for days. Some along the gulf = coast=20 learned the hard way what happens if you are in the path. The people in = NOLA are=20 first person testimony the " thing" was real and not an illusion of = science or=20 makebelieve.
 
Granted fraud can invade pure science but some things one can take = to the=20 bank. Consider what you witnessed when viewing the TV video of the = eyewall of=20 the vortex. The event is reproducible, it can be measured and the = results are=20 destruction on a grand scale. NO one claims fraud or deception.
 
At our small test facility we have succeeded in reproducing a = vortex in=20 water that matches a tornado shaped funnel including the occasional " = snake that=20 strikes" event resulting in a cavitation "pitting". This vortex is = highly=20 unstable.
 
Of more interest to us is we have been able to reproduce a = hurricane type=20 vortex that resembles an eyewall type vortex that is very stable. We = merely=20 increased the rotational speed from 3500 to 6500 rpm. This cortex is a = near=20 perfect cylinder of equal diameter top to bottom.
 
We are all  growing boys and girls and know that viewing an = eyewall of=20 a hurricane is an optical illusion because nobody can explain = scientifically how=20 the wall can form and sustain. But again, I see and hear lotsa things I = find=20 unbelievable even after getting my fingers burned.
 
Richard
 
 

 

------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C64366.0FFAAED0-- ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C64366.0FFAAED0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000b01c64398$5a88e9d0$0d027841@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C64366.0FFAAED0-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 11:09:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29J98YK027592; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:09:08 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k29J8vAA027464; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:08:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:08:57 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060309190851636.9B3F64800085@mwinf3107.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060309190853.009e5e9c@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 19:08:53 +0000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Media Tracking Bubble Fusion Story Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66855 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:41 am 09/03/2006 -0600, Richard wrote: > We are all growing boys and girls and know that viewing > an eyewall of a hurricane is an optical illusion because > nobody can explain scientifically how the wall can form > and sustain. But again, I see and hear lotsa things I find > unbelievable even after getting my fingers burned. > > Richard =============================================================================== I can't believe THAT!' said Alice. ` Can't you?' the Queen said in a pitying tone. ` Try again: draw a long breath, and shut your eyes.' Alice laughed. `There's not use trying,' she said: `one CAN'T believe impossible things.' ` I daresay you haven't had much practice,' said the Queen. `When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast. 8^) =============================================================================== From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 11:41:12 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29JeuUa013712; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:40:57 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k29JeuAd013703; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:40:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:40:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060309144040.034645f8@mindspring.com> Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060309143916.0354ad68@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 14:40:46 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: McKubre paper repaired Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_14574453==.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66856 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=====================_14574453==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed People reported difficulty reading this paper: McKubre, M.C.H. The Need for Triggering in Cold Fusion Reactions. in Tenth International Conference on Cold Fusion. 2003. A revised Acrobat version of this has been uploaded: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/McKubreMCHtheneedfor.pdf - Jed --=====================_14574453==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" People reported difficulty reading this paper:

McKubre, M.C.H. The Need for Triggering in Cold Fusion Reactions. in Tenth International Conference on Cold Fusion. 2003.

A revised Acrobat version of this has been uploaded:

http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/McKubreMCHtheneedfor.pdf

- Jed
--=====================_14574453==.ALT-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 06:50:06 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29Ennfd023072; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:49:53 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k29EnmNK023056; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:49:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:49:48 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Sender:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=MLyoLVEqZiOoIs+Fc7HqLfvZDM3Yh1UTWo7ZdaL+Wt+d8xO1T2WPpj1ttf8R8j1iBUAmV1MHfL0Xlelf3GD9Cy+4HymA1ZY/1A5Sl2gWYvPVteJpDO3/NXiw73kKs1plv72zrwNPJ+3lN+pY8hB8qdccuvziWfyd1yKtjgHJ35A= ; Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.1.20060309093700.01d7bee8@pop> X-Sender: philip.winestone@pop X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.1.1 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 09:49:31 -0500 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Philip Winestone Subject: Re: Media tracking of Bubble Fusion Story In-Reply-To: <001301c64382$008d5670$0d027841@xptower> References: <001301c64382$008d5670$0d027841@xptower> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66849 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends5 Status: RO X-Status: Hi Richard... nice hearing from you. I'm the new guy on the Vortex block. I've been in communication with Steve Krivit, and a few weeks ago had the pleasure of meeting him in person, when I was in California. He put me in touch with Vortex. I'm not the most patient of people, and I've been hanging around "Cold Fusion" ever since it started. When I saw the very nasty (and very closed-minded) reaction to what these two Chem Eng professors had come up with, I was immediately incensed to the point where I smelled several rats. I'm a Chemical Engineer myself, and I've never met a professor who made some of the elementary mistakes thrown at the media by the professional debunkers. Steve Krivit is exactly what Cold Fusion (I call it LENR to prevent the usual automatic reaction) needs. My tack - and Steve knows this - is that, as I said in my posting, we need solid applications asap, even if they don't yet operate at the theoretical peak efficiency. Why? Because as with the automobile and all major inventions - even the humble light bulb - it's ordinary people who make the ultimate decision to accept or not, and the only way to get ordinary people involved is to offer them the prospect of something extremely attractive... preferably before some government naysayer enacts some legal obstacle to its use, which is quite likely these days. Unfortunately, the average person knows very little about nuclear physics, so the only alternative, as I see it, is to show them a working unit. Philip. At 08:01 AM 3/9/2006 -0600, you wrote: >Winestone wrote.. > > >Like I tell people all the time; the ONLY way to prove that any of the > Low Energy Nuclear Reactions actually work in a practical sense, is to > quickly incorporate each into a simple prototype working > device. Scientists - especially the closed-minded (non-intuitive) ones - > can spend endless hours debating how many angels can dance on a pinhead, > but when an actual physical device is operating continuously according to > what looks like a new paradigm, it's very difficult to argue that the > reason for the original results of the bench study was that the test tube > was dirty. > >Howdy Philip, > >The tides of time have a way of "flushing" the estuaries of science. >Overlooked in the reports are the undercurrents of interest by the science >community. Steven Krivit of New Energy Times again >demonstrates integrity, class and style with his factual reporting and >analysis by listing the chronology of the " breaking" stories. The >accelerating interest in new energy research is the " story". The trials >and tribulations of one scientist is irrelevant. > >Let facts be submitted to a candid world. We can handle the facts. > >Richard > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 04:44:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29Chw7I012906; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 04:43:58 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k29ChuCk012888; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 04:43:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 04:43:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Sender:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=t0z8aF+ve1FlbDjIeNPVe1GcopDGEUr4zwmAZ8giHveFfOVl2ie9PQlH6ZfHaFZooswWH7xiLYypqUqTI2/a3cI+AoWyAeBfhrg7AO17A2rSnp1tKKv13nOxmBwtNCJYChX0d0n498vyT/sEyuzrfOYz13ANyEsrsC8pCE3U228= ; Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.1.20060309073543.01d4be00@pop> X-Sender: philip.winestone@pop X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.1.1 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 07:43:44 -0500 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Philip Winestone Subject: Re: Media tracking of Bubble Fusion Story In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20060309023749.028f8f40@mail.newenergytimes.com > References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060309023749.028f8f40@mail.newenergytimes.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_3993671==.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66845 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends5 Status: RO X-Status: --=====================_3993671==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Like I tell people all the time; the ONLY way to prove that any of the Low Energy Nuclear Reactions actually work in a practical sense, is to quickly incorporate each into a simple prototype working device. Scientists - especially the closed-minded (non-intuitive) ones - can spend endless hours debating how many angels can dance on a pinhead, but when an actual physical device is operating continuously according to what looks like a new paradigm, it's very difficult to argue that the reason for the original results of the bench study was that the test tube was dirty. At 02:37 AM 3/9/2006 -0800, you wrote: >The New York Times breaks a preview of the main story 23 hours ago >University to Investigate Fusion Study >http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/08/science/08fusion.html > >Nature breaks the full story with a 4-part splash 14 hours ago. >A sound investment? >http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060306/full/060306-4.html >Bubble fusion: silencing the hype >http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060306/full/060306-1.html >Is bubble fusion simply hot air? >http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060306/full/060306-2.html >Bubble bursts for table-top fusion >http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060306/full/060306-3.html > >Reuters runs this erroneous lead 13 hours ago, based on the Nature story, >and starts to call it cold fusion: >University checks "bubble fusion" fraud claim >WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Purdue University is investigating complaints about >a scientist who claimed to have achieved "cold fusion" using sound waves >to make bubbles in a test tube, the university said on Wednesday. >http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/NewsArticle.aspx?type=scienceNews&storyID=2006-03-08T140246Z_01_N0836255_RTRIDST_0_SCIENCE-SCIENCE-FUSION-DC.XML > >Then, 11 hours ago, CNN repackages the same Reuters story and calls it >cold fusion in the title >Purdue probes 'cold fusion' fraud claim >http://edition.cnn.com/2006/TECH/science/03/08/fusion.probe.reut/ > >UPI picked up the story 7 hours ago, apparently based off the NYT story. >http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060308-112608-2313r >Purdue investigates professor's research > >AP does their own original reporting and puts their story out 4 hours ago: >Purdue probes 'tabletop fusion' study >http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/living/health/14050194.htm > >At about 23 hours after the first NYT story broke, Google News reports >that this story has appeared in 54 news outlets. >Based on a very quick analysis, only four outlets apparently have done >original reporting on this story and everyone else is ripping and reading it. >2 of the 3 wire services apparently did not do original reporting. > >DAY 2 > >Washington Post (Perhaps the most best report so far) T+24hrs EST >Tabletop Fusion' Research Under Review >http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/08/AR2006030802052.html > >NYT does follow-up story at T+24hrs EST >Scientist Says He Stands by Fusion Data >http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/09/science/09fusion.html > >LA Times has several direct and indirect allegations of fraud from Suslick >and Putterman. Perhaps the most slanderous and inaccurate article so far. >T+25hrs >College Reviews Physicist's Tabletop Fusion Claims >http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-sci-fusion9mar09,1,2142402.story?coll=la-news-a_section > >Indianapolis Star T+25hrs >Purdue scientist is under scrutiny >http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060309/NEWS01/603090431/1006/NEWS01 > >Boston Globe reprints Reuters story, reuses CNN title T+25hrs >Purdue investigates scientist over 'cold fusion' claims >http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/03/09/purdue_investigates_scientist_over_cold_fusion_claims/ > >Google News reports a total of 67 stories at T+30hrs EST > --=====================_3993671==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Like I tell people all the time; the ONLY way to prove that any of the Low Energy Nuclear Reactions actually work in a practical sense, is to quickly incorporate each into a simple prototype working device.  Scientists - especially the closed-minded (non-intuitive) ones - can spend endless hours debating how many angels can dance on a pinhead, but when an actual physical device is operating continuously according to what looks like a new paradigm, it's very difficult to argue that the reason for the original results of the bench study was that the test tube was dirty.



At 02:37 AM 3/9/2006 -0800, you wrote:
The New York Times breaks a preview of the main story 23 hours ago
University to Investigate Fusion Study
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/08/science/08fusion.html

Nature breaks the full story with a 4-part splash 14 hours ago.
A sound investment?
http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060306/full/060306-4.html
Bubble fusion: silencing the hype
http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060306/full/060306-1.html
Is bubble fusion simply hot air?
http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060306/full/060306-2.html
Bubble bursts for table-top fusion
http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060306/full/060306-3.html

Reuters runs this erroneous lead 13 hours ago, based on the Nature story, and starts to call it cold fusion:
University checks "bubble fusion" fraud claim
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Purdue University is investigating complaints about a scientist who claimed to have achieved "cold fusion" using sound waves to make bubbles in a test tube, the university said on Wednesday.
http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/NewsArticle.aspx?type=scienceNews&storyID=2006-03-08T140246Z_01_N0836255_RTRIDST_0_SCIENCE-SCIENCE-FUSION-DC.XML

Then, 11 hours ago, CNN repackages the same Reuters story and calls it cold fusion in the title
Purdue probes 'cold fusion' fraud claim
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/TECH/science/03/08/fusion.probe.reut/

UPI picked up the story 7 hours ago, apparently based off the NYT story.
http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060308-112608-2313r
Purdue investigates professor's research

AP does their own original reporting and puts their story out 4 hours ago:
Purdue probes 'tabletop fusion' study
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/living/health/14050194.htm

At about 23 hours after the first NYT story broke, Google News reports that this story has appeared in 54 news outlets.
Based on a very quick analysis, only four outlets apparently have done original reporting on this story and everyone else is ripping and reading it.
2 of the 3 wire services apparently did not do original reporting.

DAY 2

Washington Post (Perhaps the most best report so far) T+24hrs EST
Tabletop Fusion' Research Under Review
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/08/AR2006030802052.html

NYT does follow-up story at T+24hrs EST
Scientist Says He Stands by Fusion Data
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/09/science/09fusion.html

LA Times has several direct and indirect allegations of fraud from Suslick and Putterman.  Perhaps the most slanderous and inaccurate article so far. T+25hrs
College Reviews Physicist's Tabletop Fusion Claims 
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-sci-fusion9mar09,1,2142402.story?coll=la-news-a_section

Indianapolis Star T+25hrs
Purdue scientist is under scrutiny
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060309/NEWS01/603090431/1006/NEWS01

Boston Globe reprints Reuters story, reuses CNN title  T+25hrs
Purdue investigates scientist over 'cold fusion' claims
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/03/09/purdue_investigates_scientist_over_cold_fusion_claims/

Google News reports a total of 67 stories at T+30hrs EST


--=====================_3993671==.ALT-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 13:20:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29LK2pa004023; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:20:03 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k29LK0u0003982; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:20:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:20:00 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060309161542.03580030@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 16:19:55 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Farrell responds to Pimentel regarding ethanol Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <5lvk2D.A.K-.AwJEEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66857 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: See: http://rael.berkeley.edu/EBAMM/ERG-NPR-letter-1-30-06.pdf Farrell agrees with Pimentel that ethanol takes a lot of input energy -- although he does not specify how much in this letter. He says that Pimentel was wrong and that the Berkeley study did take into account the energy used by farm machinery. His main point is that much of the input energy for ethanol production comes from fuels other than oil, so it produces a net increase in transportation fuel. Maybe so, but I doubt it is economically viable, I doubt it does anything to reduce CO2 emissions, and I expect that if the subsidies were withdrawn no one would buy the stuff. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 14:49:20 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29MnAnC012869; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 14:49:10 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k29Mn7Yq012838; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 14:49:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 14:49:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: ThomasClark123@aol.com Message-ID: <140.566205e6.31420adc@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:49:00 EST Subject: Re: Cold Fusion, The New Rome, and The Saint To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1141944540" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66859 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1141944540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I received some emails from the vortex-l@eskimo.com email list, that indicated that though magnetic motors may work well for cars, they may not yield as much free energy as cold fusion yields. The Roman myths of a hybrid crystalline metal made from perhaps niobium (metallic metal) as used on flying saucers and who's geometric crystal angles (i.e. 7 degrees 20 minutes = 26400 seconds of arc - harmonic of light used to create matter in DNA/RNA crystals) are engineered to be tuned to the speed of light, gravity, mass, inverse of speed of light, and the unified field equation potential energy (E) realized as work (W) = C + sqrt(1/c) C^2 + Scalar Wave Part(See * Below for details), may collect more magnetic and cosmic energies than ordinary magnets, and may make the metal glow as if an energetic force field were around it, just like flying saucers glow. The Russian crystal electret crystal (http://www.rhfweb.com/russelect.html) is a super-magnetic monopole that pulls in more environmental energy than a normal magnet by engineering crystals to resonate with the unified field equation components more efficiently than ordinary magnets. The Mueller Magnetic Motor (NeoGen Dynamo),(http://www.magnetricity.com/NeoG/NeoGen_Dynamo.php) uses Bifilar coils which are 250,000 times more powerful than Tesla coils, to pull in more environmental energy. The Unity of Creation Theory predicts the amount of energy in an inch of space as quoted from Leonard Cramp - "In 1954 when Avenel first published his Unity of Creation Theory he gave the tentative estimate of the wavelength of the creative rays as 10^-13cm. More recently Dr. John A Wheeler of Princton has calculated the wavelength of the ether as 10^-32cm. This is roughly sixty octaves above the limit of known electromagnetic spectrum which is based on the diameter of an electron (approximately 5 x 10 ^-13cm). Wheeler calculated an incredibly high energy density, from 10^94 to around 10^127 watts-seconds per cubic centimeter, which in more graphical terms means that if the potential energy of one cubic inch of Avenel's space were converted to electricity it could power an average city. Not only has the ether wavelength been estimated, but it has been given a tentative density of approximating to 10^-20 that of water. "Pg. 148, The cosmic matrix piece for a jigsaw puzzle part 2- Leonard G. Cramp." Magnetic motors may power a car safely and solve the oil energy crisis and end car pollution and stop global warming, but super-magnetic metal crystals and cold fusion may power a whole city from on inch of space, and may be used to create powerful force fields. Magnetic motors are not a security threat since they only use small amounts of free energy and may be implemented once the oil well cartel loses is political power soon as is predicted, whereas cold fusion technologies which use more free energy may be considered a security threat since they can be used as bombs and can create powerful force fields, and may have to be highly regulated or rigged to use only a certain amount of free energy before they can be used commercially. *The energy wave equation in normal physics texts often ignores the scalar wave part of the equation. The energy wave equation with the scalar wave part is show below: Delta E (Wave) = grad(ient) div(ergence) E (Longitudinal Wave) - rot rot E (transverse herzian wave). , grad div E = 1/c^2 * d^2/E/dt^2, homogeneous scalar wave plasma wave equation Delta Phi= 1/c^2 * d^2 Phi/dt^2 - Pel/e where pel = space charge density, e = dielectric primitivity, Langmuir waves w^2=c^2 * k^2 + wp^2. Div D(divergence of dielectric displacement) = Pel, Div E = Pel/e=-Delta Phi. D =E * e. (The preceding equation quote comes from Scalar Waves, by Konstantine Meyl) -------------------------------1141944540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I received some emails from the vortex-l@eskimo.com email list,=20= that indicated that though magnetic motors may work well for cars, they may=20= not yield as much free energy as cold fusion yields.  The Roman myths o= f a hybrid crystalline metal made from perhaps niobium (metallic metal) = ;as used on flying saucers and who's geometric crystal angles (i.e. 7 degree= s 20 minutes =3D 26400 seconds of arc - harmonic of light used to create mat= ter in DNA/RNA crystals) are engineered to be tuned to the speed of lig= ht, gravity, mass, inverse of speed of light, and the unified field equ= ation potential energy (E) realized as work (W) =3D C + sqrt(1/c) C^2 += Scalar Wave Part(See * Below for details), may collect more magnetic and co= smic energies than ordinary magnets, and may make the metal glow as if an en= ergetic force field were around it, just like flying saucers glow. 
 
The Russian crystal electret crystal (http://www.rhfw= eb.com/russelect.html) is a super-magnetic monopole that pulls in more e= nvironmental energy than a normal magnet by engineering crystals to resonate= with the unified field equation components more efficiently than ordinary m= agnets.   The Mueller Magnetic Motor (NeoGen Dynamo),(http://www.magnetricity.com/NeoG/NeoGen_Dy= namo.php)  uses Bifilar coils which are 250,000 times more pow= erful than Tesla coils, to pull in more environmental energy.
 
The Unity of Creation Theory predicts the amount of energy in an inch o= f space as quoted from Leonard Cramp - "In 1954 when Avenel first publi= shed his Unity of Creation Theory he gave the tentative estimate of the wave= length of the creative rays as 10^-13cm.  More recently Dr. John A Whee= ler of Princton has calculated the wavelength of the ether as 10^-32cm. This= is roughly sixty octaves above the limit of known electromagnetic spectrum=20= which is based on the diameter of an electron (approximately 5 x 10 ^-13cm).=   Wheeler calculated an incredibly high energy density, from 10^94 to a= round 10^127 watts-seconds per cubic centimeter, which in more graphical ter= ms means that if the potential energy of one cubic inch of Avenel's space we= re converted to electricity it could power an average city.   Not=20= only has the ether wavelength been estimated, but it has been given a tentat= ive density of approximating to 10^-20 that of water. "Pg. 148,= The cosmic matrix piece for a jigsaw puzzle part 2- Leonard G. Cramp." = ;
 
Magnetic motors may power a car safely and solve the oil energy crisis=20= and end car pollution and stop global warming, but super-magnetic metal = ;crystals and cold fusion may power a whole city from on inch of space, and=20= may be used to create powerful force fields.  Magnetic motors are not a= security threat since they only use small amounts of free energy and may be= implemented once the oil well cartel loses is political power soon as is pr= edicted, whereas cold fusion technologies which use more free energy may be=20= considered a security threat since they can be used as bombs and can create=20= powerful force fields, and may have to be highly regulated or rigged to use=20= only a certain amount of free energy before they can be used commercially. <= /DIV>
 
*The energy wave equation in normal physics texts often ignores the sca= lar wave part of the equation. The energy wave equation with the scalar wave= part is show below:

Delta E (Wave) =3D grad(ient) div(ergence) E (L= ongitudinal Wave) - rot rot E (transverse herzian wave). , grad div E =3D 1/= c^2 * d^2/E/dt^2, homogeneous scalar wave plasma wave equation Delta Phi=3D=20= 1/c^2 * d^2 Phi/dt^2 - Pel/e where pel =3D space charge density, e =3D diele= ctric primitivity, Langmuir waves w^2=3Dc^2 * k^2 + wp^2. Div D(divergence o= f dielectric displacement) =3D Pel, Div E =3D Pel/e=3D-Delta Phi. D =3DE * e= . (The preceding equation quote comes from Scalar Waves, by Konstantine Meyl= )
-------------------------------1141944540-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 15:08:08 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29N7b44022245; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:07:37 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k29N7Y8b022215; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:07:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:07:34 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <02f401c643ce$3cc894a0$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060309161542.03580030@mindspring.com> <6.1.1.1.1.20060309162500.01d54100@pop> Subject: Re: Farrell responds to Pimentel regarding ethanol Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:07:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0610-1, 08/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: <0C36j.A.-aF.2ULEEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66860 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I heard that the limit on biofuels is that they would require devoting the entirety of our agricultural surfaces to the corresponding cultivations if we wanted to run all our vehicles on them. Otherwise their net CO2 emission is zero without a doubt, as all they can release to the atmosphere is what they have taken from it a year or so before for their photosynthesis, unlike fossil fuels which did so a very long time ago. Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Winestone" To: Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 11:39 PM Subject: Re: Farrell responds to Pimentel regarding ethanol > Most of the studies I'm aware of discuss the manufacture of ethanol from > corn. I know first-hand of an interesting process that uses cellulose as > its feedstock. The reaction is via an enzyme that initially converts the > cellulose to sugar... then the normal fermentation process to ethanol. > > The process lends itself very nicely to waste wood: bark, chips, sawdust, > stumpage... and could easily be implemented by the pulp and paper industry > which has the logistics in place to undertake such projects. And this > industry is having its problems right now, especially here in Canada. > > All it takes is some investment. > > Many energy expenditures occur, even/especially with oil-based fuels. > Imagine how much energy it takes to transport fuel from the the wells to > the refineries dotted about North America to the fuel depots and then to > the individual retail outlets. The conversion process from raw oil to > different fuel types also takes a substantial amount of energy. > > Same problems with ethanol: manufacture and distribution. I haven't read > the various studies on the subject so I don't know what parameters were > used. I can only say that some time ago similar studies were done to > compare solar energy (energy to manufacture the panels, etc.) and these > were all deeply flawed - either accidentally or deliberately. > > Philip. > > > > > At 04:19 PM 3/9/2006 -0500, you wrote: >>See: >> >>http://rael.berkeley.edu/EBAMM/ERG-NPR-letter-1-30-06.pdf >> >>Farrell agrees with Pimentel that ethanol takes a lot of input energy -- >>although he does not specify how much in this letter. He says that >>Pimentel was wrong and that the Berkeley study did take into account the >>energy used by farm machinery. >> >>His main point is that much of the input energy for ethanol production >>comes from fuels other than oil, so it produces a net increase in >>transportation fuel. Maybe so, but I doubt it is economically viable, I >>doubt it does anything to reduce CO2 emissions, and I expect that if the >>subsidies were withdrawn no one would buy the stuff. >> >>- Jed >> > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 15:13:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29NDiu8025051; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:13:45 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k29NDgJk025010; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:13:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:13:42 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: ThomasClark123@aol.com Message-ID: <29c.6c22fbf.3142109e@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 18:13:34 EST Subject: Re: Electrostatic Hover Cars To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1141946014" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <6fg3eD.A.tGG.maLEEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66861 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1141946014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit According to the Unity of Creation Theory (The cosmic matrix piece for a jigsaw puzzle part 2- Leonard G. Cramp), gravity is simply a deficit of 1g on Earth between creative rays (cosmic/ether/compressed magnetic rays) that push upon Earth from the atmosphere with a higher force, than they push upon Earth from the ground, since the creative rays that pass through the Earth's crust are captured in part, to create heat in the Earth, and are weaker than the creative rays that pass through the atmosphere only. If this theory is true, then if we create a small magnetic or ether force fields above the electrostatic hover craft to make the creative rays above it weaker than those beneath it, the hover craft will levitate on its own, without any need of power or force placed beneath it, since it is pushed up by the creative rays beneath it. This explains how John Keely's technologies may work. If we use metal pipes tuned to the resonant and inverse resonant harmonic frequencies of light, gravity, mass and the unified field equation ((potential energy (E) realized as work (W) = C + sqrt(1/c) C^2 + Scalar Wave Part(See * Below for details)), , we may be able to then direct the free energy from the pipes around the top half of a metal plate to cause it to deflect creative rays or cosmic/ether rays above it so that the creative rays beneath the metal plate push it upwards, since they are stronger than those above it. *The energy wave equation in normal physics texts often ignores the scalar wave part of the equation. The energy wave equation with the scalar wave part is show below: Delta E (Wave) = grad(ient) div(ergence) E (Longitudinal Wave) - rot rot E (transverse herzian wave). , grad div E = 1/c^2 * d^2/E/dt^2, homogeneous scalar wave plasma wave equation Delta Phi= 1/c^2 * d^2 Phi/dt^2 - Pel/e where pel = space charge density, e = dielectric primitivity, Langmuir waves w^2=c^2 * k^2 + wp^2. Div D(divergence of dielectric displacement) = Pel, Div E = Pel/e=-Delta Phi. D =E * e. (The preceding equation quote comes from Scalar Waves, by Konstantine Meyl) * "1703 The Earth Mass Harmonic 1439 The speed of light Harmonic 264 A harmonic that recurs within the polar squares 14389 + 2636 =17025 LIght + 2636 = Mass Formation 2636 = harmonic square root of 695 - the reciprocal of the speed of light, Resonant frequencies and unified equation - Quoted from Pg. 140 to 160, The Energy Grid Bruce L. Cathie, Adventures Unlimited Press, 1990" -------------------------------1141946014 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
According to the Unity of Creation Theory (The cosmic matrix piece for=20= a jigsaw puzzle part 2- Leonard G. Cramp), gravity is simply a deficit of 1g= on Earth between creative rays (cosmic/ether/compressed magnetic rays)=  that push upon Earth from the atmosphere with a higher force, than the= y push upon Earth from the ground, since the creative rays that pass through= the Earth's crust are captured in part, to create heat in the Earth, and ar= e weaker than the creative rays that pass through the atmosphere only. = If this theory is true, then if we create a small magnetic or ether force f= ields above the electrostatic hover craft to make the creative rays above it= weaker than those beneath it, the hover craft will levitate on its own, wit= hout any need of power or force placed beneath it, since it is pushed up by=20= the creative rays beneath it. 
 
This explains how John Keely's technologies may work.  If we use m= etal pipes tuned to the resonant and inverse resonant harmonic frequencies o= f light, gravity, mass and the unified field equation ((potential energy (E)=  realized as work (W) =3D C + sqrt(1/c) C^2 + Scalar Wave Part(See * Be= low for details)), , we may be able to then direct the free energy from the=20= pipes around the top half of a metal plate to cause it to deflect creative r= ays or cosmic/ether rays above it so that the creative rays beneath the meta= l plate push it upwards, since they are stronger than those above it.
 
*The energy wave equation in normal physics texts often ignores the sca= lar wave part of the equation. The energy wave equation with the scalar wave= part is show below:

Delta E (Wave) =3D grad(ient) div(ergence) E (L= ongitudinal Wave) - rot rot E (transverse herzian wave). , grad div E =3D 1/= c^2 * d^2/E/dt^2, homogeneous scalar wave plasma wave equation Delta Phi=3D=20= 1/c^2 * d^2 Phi/dt^2 - Pel/e where pel =3D space charge density, e =3D diele= ctric primitivity, Langmuir waves w^2=3Dc^2 * k^2 + wp^2. Div D(divergence o= f dielectric displacement) =3D Pel, Div E =3D Pel/e=3D-Delta Phi. D =3DE * e= . (The preceding equation quote comes from Scalar Waves, by Konstantine Meyl= )
 
* "1703 The Earth Mass Harmonic
1439 The speed of light Harmonic
= 264   A harmonic that recurs within the polar squares
14389 + 2636 =3D17025
LIght + 2636 =3D Mass Formation
2636 =3D ha= rmonic square root of 695 - the reciprocal of the speed of light, Resonant f= requencies and unified equation - Quoted from Pg. 140 to 160, The En= ergy Grid Bruce L. Cathie, Adventures Unlimited Press, 1990"
 -------------------------------1141946014-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 15:24:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29NOYFw029818; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:24:35 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k29NOWfq029803; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:24:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:24:32 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060309182008.03580030@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 18:24:32 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Farrell responds to Pimentel regarding ethanol In-Reply-To: <02f401c643ce$3cc894a0$3800a8c0@zothan> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060309161542.03580030@mindspring.com> <6.1.1.1.1.20060309162500.01d54100@pop> <02f401c643ce$3cc894a0$3800a8c0@zothan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66862 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michel Jullian wrote: >I heard that the limit on biofuels is that they would require >devoting the entirety of our agricultural surfaces to the >corresponding cultivations if we wanted to run all our vehicles on them. I have discussed that issue here before. Actually, it would take much more than "the entirety of our agricultural surfaces" in the U.S. It would take roughly twice as much as the entire landmass produces -- 2 times all biomass from all dry land. Biomass can never supply more than a few percent of our energy, and every calorie of biomass we use condemns someone outside the United States to malnutrition and starvation. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 15:33:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29NXRJA002195; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:33:27 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k29NXPIY002169; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:33:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:33:25 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060309182933.03598140@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 18:33:24 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Farrell responds to Pimentel regarding ethanol In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.1.20060309162500.01d54100@pop> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060309161542.03580030@mindspring.com> <6.1.1.1.1.20060309162500.01d54100@pop> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66864 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Philip Winestone wrote: >Many energy expenditures occur, even/especially with oil-based >fuels. Imagine how much energy it takes to transport fuel from the >the wells to the refineries dotted about North America to the fuel >depots and then to the individual retail outlets. Oil energy overhead is 15% to 20% depending upon where the oil originates, and how much it needs to be processed. Most of the overhead is at the refinery. See Appendix C, here: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/NRELenergyover.pdf Ethanol energy overhead is 60% according to the industry and well over 100% according to others. Enzyme conversion has the potential to increase output considerably, and it will probably bring the overhead below 100%, but the total mass of biomass is so limited this can never be a substantial source of energy. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 15:41:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29Nf138005910; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:41:02 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k29NewOU005873; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:40:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:40:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060309183409.035ac470@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 18:40:47 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Farrell responds to Pimentel regarding ethanol In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.1.20060309182059.01d5cec0@pop> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060309161542.03580030@mindspring.com> <6.1.1.1.1.20060309162500.01d54100@pop> <02f401c643ce$3cc894a0$3800a8c0@zothan> <6.1.1.1.1.20060309182059.01d5cec0@pop> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66866 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Philip Winestone wrote: >If all gasoline suppliers were to supplement their fuel with 10% >ethanol, that's simply 10% less gasoline used. It is not that simple. The amount reduced would depend upon how much oil is needed to produce the ethanol. That subject is sharply disputed, but as far as I know even the industry flacks agree that a great deal of oil is needed. The industry claims the overhead is 60%. Assuming that most of that is oil, and not coal, the use of 10% ethanol would reduce oil consumption by 5%. I do not think there is a slightest chance we can ever supply 10% of gasoline with ethanol. We would starve to death. Of course you might run the ethanol production industry on ethanol itself, reducing oil inputs to zero. But in that case the cost of a gallon of ethanol would be $10 or so and the energy overhead would be outrageous. As things now stand, no tractor or ethanol factory boiler is fired by ethanol, or as all oil wells, refineries and tankers are powered by oil. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 15:54:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29Nsa47012139; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:54:36 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k29NsYGL012121; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:54:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:54:34 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060309184331.0344b5d8@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 18:48:56 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Farrell responds to Pimentel regarding ethanol In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060309183409.035ac470@mindspring.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060309161542.03580030@mindspring.com> <6.1.1.1.1.20060309162500.01d54100@pop> <02f401c643ce$3cc894a0$3800a8c0@zothan> <6.1.1.1.1.20060309182059.01d5cec0@pop> <7.0.1.0.2.20060309183409.035ac470@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66867 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I wrote: >. . . no tractor or ethanol factory boiler is fired by ethanol, or >as all oil wells, refineries and tankers are powered by oil. Meant: "whereas all oil wells, refineries . . ." Sooner or later -- probably within 50 years -- oil production overhead will exceed 100%. That is to say, it will take more than one barrel of oil to extract, refine and transport the gasoline equivalent of one barrel of oil. This will bring an abrupt end to the oil age. It will happen long before oil wells are exhausted. Actually, Robert Park is right about this issue -- which proves that even a stopped clock is right twice a day. To quoting "What's New" -- "Franco Battaglia at the University of Rome put it this way: 'You can buy an apple for one euro. If you really want an apple, you might pay five euros. You could even pay a thousand euros, but you would never pay two apples.'" http://bobpark.physics.umd.edu/WN03/wn062003.html - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 15:55:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29NtkRo012832; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:55:47 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k29NtjBa012814; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:55:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:55:45 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <030901c643d4$f9958010$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060309161542.03580030@mindspring.com> <6.1.1.1.1.20060309162500.01d54100@pop> <02f401c643ce$3cc894a0$3800a8c0@zothan> <7.0.1.0.2.20060309182008.03580030@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Farrell responds to Pimentel regarding ethanol Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 00:55:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0610-1, 08/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66868 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: YMMV (quite literally ;), but whether once or twice the landmass production it's much too much to be practical, I agree with you Jed. Unless we found a way to use seaweeds and convert supertankers to seaweed harvesters ;) Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jed Rothwell" To: Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 12:24 AM Subject: Re: Farrell responds to Pimentel regarding ethanol > Michel Jullian wrote: > >>I heard that the limit on biofuels is that they would require devoting the >>entirety of our agricultural surfaces to the corresponding cultivations if >>we wanted to run all our vehicles on them. > > I have discussed that issue here before. Actually, it would take much more > than "the entirety of our agricultural surfaces" in the U.S. It would take > roughly twice as much as the entire landmass produces -- 2 times all > biomass from all dry land. > > Biomass can never supply more than a few percent of our energy, and every > calorie of biomass we use condemns someone outside the United States to > malnutrition and starvation. > > - Jed > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 16:01:04 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A00omn015653; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:00:51 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2A00lrZ015615; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:00:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:00:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 19:00:43 -0500 Message-Id: <8C811ECCF35809A-2484-10DF7@mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <29c.6c22fbf.3142109e@aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <29c.6c22fbf.3142109e@aol.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Electrostatic Hover Cars Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.131 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2A00jrU015586 Resent-Message-ID: <48xXVB.A.5zD.uGMEEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66869 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----Original Message----- From: ThomasClark123 According to the Unity of Creation Theory (The cosmic matrix piece for a jigsaw puzzle part 2- Leonard G. Cramp), gravity is simply a deficit of 1g on Earth between creative rays (cosmic/ether/compressed magnetic rays) that push upon Earth from the atmosphere with a higher force, <><><><><><><> Yes, this is the basis of Sir Grimer's Beta-atmosphere conjecture. However, if you actually read the posts (input vs. output) on this list you would know this. Regards, Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 16:22:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A0M5LQ025523; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:22:06 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2A0M4U6025494; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:22:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:22:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 19:21:57 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C811EFC68C70AA-2324-DE59@mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Atmospheric Capacitor and Beyond Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.138 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66870 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: An interesting article: http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20060306/sprite_tec.html which would tend to show that all weather is an equalization between the ionisphere and the surface. But what of beyond? Tether? T ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 17:54:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A1rvpd030940; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:53:58 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2A1rtNa030913; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:53:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 17:53:55 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: ThomasClark123@aol.com Message-ID: <2fd.3ba939.314234f8@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:48:40 EST Subject: Re: Electrostatic Hover Cars To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1141955320" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <1JsDfB.A.xiH.ywNEEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66872 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1141955320 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/9/2006 7:01:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, hohlrauml6d@netscape.net writes: Yes, this is the basis of Sir Grimer's Beta-atmosphere conjecture. However, if you actually read the posts (input vs. output) on this list you would know this. Regards, Terry I read many of the posts but I missed the above. I also speed read, so that sometimes I miss much. -------------------------------1141955320 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 3/9/2006 7:01:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, hohlrauml= 6d@netscape.net writes:

Yes, this is the basis of Sir Grimer's Bet= a-atmosphere conjecture. 
However, if you actually read the posts (= input vs. output) on this list
you would know this.

Regards,
<= BR>Terry
I read many of the posts but I missed the above. I also speed read, so=20= that sometimes I miss much.
-------------------------------1141955320-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 20:19:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A4JOSa026232; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:19:25 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2A4JLLV026214; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:19:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:19:21 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Craig Haynie" To: Subject: RE: global warming: spin or not spin? Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:45:48 -0600 Message-ID: <001f01c63dbc$8f8c4b40$0200a8c0@Craig> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: <6.2.0.14.2.20060301164558.02ad3d78@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66873 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > It was my understanding that greenhouse gases are only those > which have the > particular characteristic of absorbing "the wavelengths of reflected > radiation." It was told to me that only specific gasses, not > water vapor, > have this characteristic. Comments? Disagreements? I don't believe that Global Warming is a man-made event. So be it, but let me make a point. It's not that water vapor isn't a green-house gas. It is. But CO2 is more important because there is a net increase in CO2 in the atmosphere due to human action. In other words, CO2 and other green house gases released from burning wood, or from burning methane, are not that important because the CO2 contained in those fuels was extracted from the atmosphere when those fuels were created. The increase in CO2 in the atmosphere is coming from fossil fuels which are being removed from locations deep within the Earth. These sources of carbon, when burned, are creating the net increase in CO2 in the atmosphere which the global warming advocates are concerned about. Craig Haynie (Houston) From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 02:40:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AAe1jf010638; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 02:40:02 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2AAdxBv010598; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 02:39:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 02:39:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Yubu/jcIGDjuP/BvnQci46e4UVGfnn6TN/UiobTa1yzwxR1zbb4gDptrgy55aaea; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063510103945655@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: UK's MAGPIE & Sandia,s Z Pinch, Electronium-(*e-) Annihilators? Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:39:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940031a0a8c6d6ab68c6a3049c01a90eb71350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.175 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66874 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII The 2 Billion K "Over Unity" x-rays that Sandia's machine recently generated correspond to 172 KeV. Annihilation of the elusive (*e-) or (e- e+ e-) Electronium or Ps- entity that could be in the electron cloud or in a neutron of the steel (Carbon & Iron) might occur under the Z Pinch conditions. The websites for the generator at Blackett Labs at Imperial College are unavailable this morning. For charge conservation one can assume that the regular electron bound in the particle returns to it's initial state when the Positronium Pair portion (bound e- e+) annihilates. Starting out with three 510 KeV electrons and a positron giving up about 170 KeV or more photons each as binding energy (mass defect) and ending up with a regular electron plus 172 KeV photons when the (*e-) annihilates as well as arriving at the (*e-) mass poses a bit of a math puzzle. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
The 2 Billion K  "Over Unity" x-rays that Sandia's machine recently generated correspond to 172 KeV. Annihilation of the elusive  (*e-) or (e-  e+ e-)  Electronium or Ps- entity that could be in the electron cloud or in a neutron of the steel (Carbon & Iron) might occur under the Z Pinch conditions. The websites for the generator at Blackett Labs at Imperial College are unavailable this morning.
 
For charge conservation one can assume that the regular electron bound in the particle
returns to it's initial state when the Positronium Pair portion  (bound e- e+) annihilates.
 
Starting out with three 510 KeV electrons and a positron giving up about 170 KeV or more photons
each as binding energy (mass defect) and ending up with a regular electron plus
172 KeV photons when the (*e-) annihilates as well as arriving at the (*e-) mass poses a bit of a math puzzle.
 
Fred
 
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 03:01:41 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AB1LDF019495; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:01:21 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2AB1GMY019438; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:01:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:01:16 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060309161542.03580030@mindspring.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060309161542.03580030@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <56C1772D-24CF-4B61-BB1F-0318EA6AD022@mtaonline.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Farrell responds to Pimentel regarding ethanol Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 02:01:13 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66875 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mar 9, 2006, at 12:19 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > See: > > http://rael.berkeley.edu/EBAMM/ERG-NPR-letter-1-30-06.pdf > > Farrell agrees with Pimentel that ethanol takes a lot of input > energy -- although he does not specify how much in this letter. He > says that Pimentel was wrong and that the Berkeley study did take > into account the energy used by farm machinery. > > His main point is that much of the input energy for ethanol > production comes from fuels other than oil, so it produces a net > increase in transportation fuel. Maybe so, but I doubt it is > economically viable, I doubt it does anything to reduce CO2 > emissions, and I expect that if the subsidies were withdrawn no one > would buy the stuff. > > - Jed Looking at Farrel's original article, I don't see any mention of the energy required for soil restoration. Nitrogen fixation alone is extremely energy intensive. A typical source of hydrogen for this purpose is natural gas - which could more efficiently be used as a vehicle fuel directly. In regard to nitrogen, the detailed spreadsheet model only mentions: "Nitrogen fertilizer production (MJ/ha)": 66. The total given for nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium fertilizers is 66 + 67 + 117 Mj = 250 MJ/acre. This seems way low. Also, I don't see natural gas mentioned in this regard. http://www.yara.com/en/products/fertilizer/about_fertilizer/ fertilizer_use_inter.html shows about 170 kg/hectare nitrogen fertilizer use, or about 8 GJ/ hectare. This is 32 times the energy input used in Farrel's model. Other sites show 100-200 kg/hectare fertilization rates for various crops. I would expect soil restoration to be extremely energy intensive if every part of the crop is taken for cellulose digestion. Also, heavy fertilization itself can produce air and water pollution. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 03:12:21 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2ABC6MZ024840; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:12:06 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2ABC4TK024819; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:12:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:12:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=khI0mHj9cssvlYjHSCzp8cKvN0s3eYG7QelVpXnEFSjV7fW6jMVkqq03r9Fw3JzB; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063510111152804@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: UK's MAGPIE & Sandia,s Z Pinch, Electronium-(*e-) Annihilators? Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 04:11:52 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94033eb3c4784960410e46470629d54f460350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.73 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66876 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII OTOH, this one always threw me. Did I start out with some wrong values? :-) Fred "Three people check into a hotel. They pay £30 to the manager and go to their room. The manager suddenly remembers that the room rate is £25 and gives £5 to the bellboy to return to the people. On the way to the room the bellboy reasons that £5 would be difficult to share among three people so he pockets £2 and gives £1 to each person. Now each person paid £10 and got back £1. So they paid £9 each, totalling £27. The bellboy has £2, totalling £29. Where is the missing £1?" ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 3/10/2006 3:40:27 AM Subject: Re: UK's MAGPIE & Sandia,s Z Pinch, Electronium-(*e-) Annihilators? The 2 Billion K "Over Unity" x-rays that Sandia's machine recently generated correspond to 172 KeV. Annihilation of the elusive (*e-) or (e- e+ e-) Electronium or Ps- entity that could be in the electron cloud or in a neutron of the steel (Carbon & Iron) might occur under the Z Pinch conditions. The websites for the generator at Blackett Labs at Imperial College are unavailable this morning. For charge conservation one can assume that the regular electron bound in the particle returns to it's initial state when the Positronium Pair portion (bound e- e+) annihilates. Starting out with three 510 KeV electrons and a positron giving up about 170 KeV or more photons each as binding energy (mass defect) and ending up with a regular electron plus 172 KeV photons when the (*e-) annihilates as well as arriving at the (*e-) mass poses a bit of a math puzzle. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
OTOH, this one always threw me. Did I start out with some wrong values? :-)
 
Fred
 
 
"Three people check into a hotel. They pay £30 to the manager and go to their room. The manager suddenly remembers that the room rate is £25 and gives £5 to the bellboy to return to the people. On the way to the room the bellboy reasons that £5 would be difficult to share among three people so he pockets £2 and gives £1 to each person. Now each person paid £10 and got back £1. So they paid £9 each, totalling £27. The bellboy has £2, totalling £29. Where is the missing £1?"
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 3/10/2006 3:40:27 AM
Subject: Re: UK's MAGPIE & Sandia,s Z Pinch, Electronium-(*e-) Annihilators?

The 2 Billion K  "Over Unity" x-rays that Sandia's machine recently generated correspond to 172 KeV. Annihilation of the elusive  (*e-) or (e-  e+ e-)  Electronium or Ps- entity that could be in the electron cloud or in a neutron of the steel (Carbon & Iron) might occur under the Z Pinch conditions. The websites for the generator at Blackett Labs at Imperial College are unavailable this morning.
 
For charge conservation one can assume that the regular electron bound in the particle
returns to it's initial state when the Positronium Pair portion  (bound e- e+) annihilates.
 
Starting out with three 510 KeV electrons and a positron giving up about 170 KeV or more photons
each as binding energy (mass defect) and ending up with a regular electron plus
172 KeV photons when the (*e-) annihilates as well as arriving at the (*e-) mass poses a bit of a math puzzle.
 
Fred
 
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 03:53:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2ABrFjM012070; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:53:16 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2ABrD6N012031; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:53:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:53:13 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <037601c64439$314b7050$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060309161542.03580030@mindspring.com> <56C1772D-24CF-4B61-BB1F-0318EA6AD022@mtaonline.net> Subject: Re: Farrell responds to Pimentel regarding ethanol Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:53:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0610-1, 08/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: <1oeCq.A.17C.oiWEEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66877 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Horace I can see two ways to do without nitrogen fertilizers: - seaweed biomass as I suggested in an earlier post. - use vegetals which feed directly on ambient air's nitrogen, I know there are some, they may not be edible but they might be perfectly suitable for biomass production. Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Horace Heffner" To: Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 12:01 PM Subject: Re: Farrell responds to Pimentel regarding ethanol > > On Mar 9, 2006, at 12:19 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > >> See: >> >> http://rael.berkeley.edu/EBAMM/ERG-NPR-letter-1-30-06.pdf >> >> Farrell agrees with Pimentel that ethanol takes a lot of input energy -- >> although he does not specify how much in this letter. He says that >> Pimentel was wrong and that the Berkeley study did take into account the >> energy used by farm machinery. >> >> His main point is that much of the input energy for ethanol production >> comes from fuels other than oil, so it produces a net increase in >> transportation fuel. Maybe so, but I doubt it is economically viable, I >> doubt it does anything to reduce CO2 emissions, and I expect that if the >> subsidies were withdrawn no one would buy the stuff. >> >> - Jed > > > Looking at Farrel's original article, I don't see any mention of the > energy required for soil restoration. Nitrogen fixation alone is > extremely energy intensive. A typical source of hydrogen for this > purpose is natural gas - which could more efficiently be used as a > vehicle fuel directly. > > In regard to nitrogen, the detailed spreadsheet model only mentions: > "Nitrogen fertilizer production (MJ/ha)": 66. The total given for > nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium fertilizers is 66 + 67 + 117 Mj = 250 > MJ/acre. This seems way low. Also, I don't see natural gas mentioned in > this regard. > > http://www.yara.com/en/products/fertilizer/about_fertilizer/ > fertilizer_use_inter.html > shows about 170 kg/hectare nitrogen fertilizer use, or about 8 GJ/ > hectare. This is 32 times the energy input used in Farrel's model. > Other sites show 100-200 kg/hectare fertilization rates for various > crops. I would expect soil restoration to be extremely energy intensive > if every part of the crop is taken for cellulose digestion. Also, heavy > fertilization itself can produce air and water pollution. > > Horace Heffner > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 04:26:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2ACQD8E024859; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 04:26:14 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2ACQ8wJ024813; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 04:26:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 04:26:08 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=jJbV1/Bepont97WGF1BGB7ZiSYHbdlfldKuuNmqgHlyPUG/hWoA3TNjIrT4ttxcP; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063510122558525@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Farrell responds to Pimentel regarding ethanol Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:25:58 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9408f2b906891d240bf7a6b37216a56716d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.27 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66878 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Crop rotation fixes the nitrogen energy problem. Using hybrid seed I had no problem getting 120 bushel/acre corn planted on land that grew soybeans the year before. I doubt the Amish in that northwester Pennsylvania area now, don't sweat it either. http://www.princeton.edu/~hos/mike/texts/readmach/zmaczynski.htm "The early 20th century produced three methods to "fix" nitrogen, that is, convert it from an inactive gas in the air to nitrogen compounds that would be further reacted to produce fertilizers or used directly. Two methods, the electric arc process and the cyanamid process never proved important in making fertilizer in the United States though they were of some importance through the first part of this century. The third process, the Haber Process, has made a lasting impression on chemical technology and fertilizers." http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/AG152 "All plants must have nitrogen (N) for growth. Approximately 110 million tons of N are required for the world's annual food production but only 7 million tons are supplied by the fertilizer industry; the rest come from legumes. Legumes are plants, like peas, beans, soybean, alfalfa, clover, and aeschynomene, that have special bacteria in their rooting system and make use of N from the air. The air we breathe is 78% nitrogen gas, and 21% oxygen. There are ~35,000 tons of free N above every acre of land, but this gaseous form is unavailable to plant or animal life. Fortunately, nature has provided us with a simple and cheap method of obtaining some of this N from the atmosphere by the growing of legumes." "Most, but not all legumes have the capacity to fix N. The quantity of N fixed depends on several factors, such as (1) the kind of legume, (2) the effectiveness of the N-fixing bacteria, (3) the soil conditions including pH and N fertilizer, and (4) availability of necessary plant food such as carbohydrates, phosphorus (P), potassium (K), magnesium (Mg), calcium (Ca), iron (Fe), molybdenum (Mo), copper (Cu), and boron (B). For example, estimates of N fixed in a growing season for alfalfa are 100-200 lb/A; berseem clover, 50-210 lb/A; red clover, 50-200 lb/A; white clover, 50-150 lb/A; hairy vetch, 100 lb/A; and aeschynomene, 50-150 lb/A. In soils that are well supplied with N fertilizer, there may be little or no fixation because the plants use available N in the soil and do not encourage the bacteria to fix more. As a result, the greatest N fixation is obtained in soils low in available N." These probably exceed the EPA/s groundwater "nitrate" pollution levels in soils. :-) ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Crop rotation fixes the nitrogen energy problem.
 
Using hybrid seed I had no problem getting 120 bushel/acre corn planted on
land that grew soybeans the year before.
 
I doubt the Amish in that northwester Pennsylvania area now, don't sweat it either.
 
 
"The early 20th century produced three methods to "fix" nitrogen, that is, convert it from an inactive gas in the air to nitrogen compounds that would be further reacted to produce fertilizers or used directly. Two methods, the electric arc process and the cyanamid process never proved important in making fertilizer in the United States though they were of some importance through the first part of this century. The third process, the Haber Process, has made a lasting impression on chemical technology and fertilizers."
 
 
"All plants must have nitrogen (N) for growth. Approximately 110 million tons of N are required for the world's annual food production but only 7 million tons are supplied by the fertilizer industry; the rest come from legumes. Legumes are plants, like peas, beans, soybean, alfalfa, clover, and aeschynomene, that have special bacteria in their rooting system and make use of N from the air. The air we breathe is 78% nitrogen gas, and 21% oxygen. There are ~35,000 tons of free N above every acre of land, but this gaseous form is unavailable to plant or animal life. Fortunately, nature has provided us with a simple and cheap method of obtaining some of this N from the atmosphere by the growing of legumes."
 
"Most, but not all legumes have the capacity to fix N. The quantity of N fixed depends on several factors, such as (1) the kind of legume, (2) the effectiveness of the N-fixing bacteria, (3) the soil conditions including pH and N fertilizer, and (4) availability of necessary plant food such as carbohydrates, phosphorus (P), potassium (K), magnesium (Mg), calcium (Ca), iron (Fe), molybdenum (Mo), copper (Cu), and boron (B). For example, estimates of N fixed in a growing season for alfalfa are 100-200 lb/A; berseem clover, 50-210 lb/A; red clover, 50-200 lb/A; white clover, 50-150 lb/A; hairy vetch, 100 lb/A; and aeschynomene, 50-150 lb/A. In soils that are well supplied with N fertilizer, there may be little or no fixation because the plants use available N in the soil and do not encourage the bacteria to fix more. As a result, the greatest N fixation is obtained in soils low in available N."
 
These probably exceed the EPA/s groundwater "nitrate" pollution levels in soils.  :-)
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 05:14:04 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2ACnXl0004896; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 04:52:14 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2ACnRiL004834; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 04:49:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 04:49:27 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <039101c64440$c4e05630$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-220063510122558525@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Farrell responds to Pimentel regarding ethanol Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:46:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0610-1, 08/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66879 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Fred (your reply-to pb isn't fixed BTW) Thanks for the very documented enlightenment on air nitrogen fixing plants (legumes), would there be a problem in using them directly as biofuel convertible biomass do you think? Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 1:25 PM Subject: Re: Farrell responds to Pimentel regarding ethanol > Crop rotation fixes the nitrogen energy problem. > > Using hybrid seed I had no problem getting 120 bushel/acre corn planted on > land that grew soybeans the year before. > > I doubt the Amish in that northwester Pennsylvania area now, don't sweat > it either. > > http://www.princeton.edu/~hos/mike/texts/readmach/zmaczynski.htm > > "The early 20th century produced three methods to "fix" nitrogen, that is, > convert it from an inactive gas in the air to nitrogen compounds that > would be further reacted to produce fertilizers or used directly. Two > methods, the electric arc process and the cyanamid process never proved > important in making fertilizer in the United States though they were of > some importance through the first part of this century. The third process, > the Haber Process, has made a lasting impression on chemical technology > and fertilizers." > > http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/AG152 > > "All plants must have nitrogen (N) for growth. Approximately 110 million > tons of N are required for the world's annual food production but only 7 > million tons are supplied by the fertilizer industry; the rest come from > legumes. Legumes are plants, like peas, beans, soybean, alfalfa, clover, > and aeschynomene, that have special bacteria in their rooting system and > make use of N from the air. The air we breathe is 78% nitrogen gas, and > 21% oxygen. There are ~35,000 tons of free N above every acre of land, but > this gaseous form is unavailable to plant or animal life. Fortunately, > nature has provided us with a simple and cheap method of obtaining some of > this N from the atmosphere by the growing of legumes." > > "Most, but not all legumes have the capacity to fix N. The quantity of N > fixed depends on several factors, such as (1) the kind of legume, (2) the > effectiveness of the N-fixing bacteria, (3) the soil conditions including > pH and N fertilizer, and (4) availability of necessary plant food such as > carbohydrates, phosphorus (P), potassium (K), magnesium (Mg), calcium > (Ca), iron (Fe), molybdenum (Mo), copper (Cu), and boron (B). For example, > estimates of N fixed in a growing season for alfalfa are 100-200 lb/A; > berseem clover, 50-210 lb/A; red clover, 50-200 lb/A; white clover, 50-150 > lb/A; hairy vetch, 100 lb/A; and aeschynomene, 50-150 lb/A. In soils that > are well supplied with N fertilizer, there may be little or no fixation > because the plants use available N in the soil and do not encourage the > bacteria to fix more. As a result, the greatest N fixation is obtained in > soils low in available N." > > These probably exceed the EPA/s groundwater "nitrate" pollution levels in > soils. :-) From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 05:28:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2ADSbsH029522; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:28:37 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2ADSbsA029515; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:28:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:28:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=YYGypm+epOeHRL1WLdUH47AjZXP7IYaIyDYiwgWftFIEwKSlzeg84ELWI1IL+jQN; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006351013217663@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Farrell responds to Pimentel regarding ethanol Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 06:21:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940bf8aaebce1c87a04274f8c72f506dfc7350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.27 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66880 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michel Jullian writes: > > Hi Fred (your reply-to pb isn't fixed BTW) > > Thanks for the very documented enlightenment on air nitrogen fixing plants > (legumes), would there be a problem in using them directly as biofuel > convertible biomass do you think? You're welcome. Soydiesel from soybean crops is a hot item these days, Michel. You can have your "Tofu Cake" and motor fuel too. :-) http://www.soyfoods.com/soyfoodsdescriptions/tofu.html http://energy.cas.psu.edu/soydiesel.html Fred > > Michel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frederick Sparber" > To: "vortex-l" > Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 1:25 PM > Subject: Re: Farrell responds to Pimentel regarding ethanol > > > > Crop rotation fixes the nitrogen energy problem. > > > > Using hybrid seed I had no problem getting 120 bushel/acre corn planted on > > land that grew soybeans the year before. > > > > I doubt the Amish in that northwester Pennsylvania area now, don't sweat > > it either. > > > > http://www.princeton.edu/~hos/mike/texts/readmach/zmaczynski.htm > > > > "The early 20th century produced three methods to "fix" nitrogen, that is, > > convert it from an inactive gas in the air to nitrogen compounds that > > would be further reacted to produce fertilizers or used directly. Two > > methods, the electric arc process and the cyanamid process never proved > > important in making fertilizer in the United States though they were of > > some importance through the first part of this century. The third process, > > the Haber Process, has made a lasting impression on chemical technology > > and fertilizers." > > > > http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/AG152 > > > > "All plants must have nitrogen (N) for growth. Approximately 110 million > > tons of N are required for the world's annual food production but only 7 > > million tons are supplied by the fertilizer industry; the rest come from > > legumes. Legumes are plants, like peas, beans, soybean, alfalfa, clover, > > and aeschynomene, that have special bacteria in their rooting system and > > make use of N from the air. The air we breathe is 78% nitrogen gas, and > > 21% oxygen. There are ~35,000 tons of free N above every acre of land, but > > this gaseous form is unavailable to plant or animal life. Fortunately, > > nature has provided us with a simple and cheap method of obtaining some of > > this N from the atmosphere by the growing of legumes." > > > > "Most, but not all legumes have the capacity to fix N. The quantity of N > > fixed depends on several factors, such as (1) the kind of legume, (2) the > > effectiveness of the N-fixing bacteria, (3) the soil conditions including > > pH and N fertilizer, and (4) availability of necessary plant food such as > > carbohydrates, phosphorus (P), potassium (K), magnesium (Mg), calcium > > (Ca), iron (Fe), molybdenum (Mo), copper (Cu), and boron (B). For example, > > estimates of N fixed in a growing season for alfalfa are 100-200 lb/A; > > berseem clover, 50-210 lb/A; red clover, 50-200 lb/A; white clover, 50-150 > > lb/A; hairy vetch, 100 lb/A; and aeschynomene, 50-150 lb/A. In soils that > > are well supplied with N fertilizer, there may be little or no fixation > > because the plants use available N in the soil and do not encourage the > > bacteria to fix more. As a result, the greatest N fixation is obtained in > > soils low in available N." > > > > These probably exceed the EPA/s groundwater "nitrate" pollution levels in > > soils. :-) From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 05:33:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2ADXUJG032229; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:33:31 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2ADXSmJ032201; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:33:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:33:28 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:33:21 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8125E5541321A-1268-3D5F@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <2fd.3ba939.314234f8@aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <2fd.3ba939.314234f8@aol.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Electrostatic Hover Cars Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.65 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66881 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: ThomasClark123 I read many of the posts but I missed the above. I also speed read, so that sometimes I miss much. <><><><><><><> Then fnord what's the point of reading? Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 05:36:54 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2ADad48001751; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:36:39 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2ADacB4001732; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:36:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:36:38 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:36:33 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8125EC7E3933D-1268-3D76@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060309161542.03580030@mindspring.com> <56C1772D-24CF-4B61-BB1F-0318EA6AD022@mtaonline.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <56C1772D-24CF-4B61-BB1F-0318EA6AD022@mtaonline.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Farrell responds to Pimentel regarding ethanol Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.65 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2ADaajw001711 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66882 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Horace Heffner   Looking at Farrel's original article, I don't see any mention of the energy required for soil restoration. <><><><><><><> Wasn't it George Washington Carver that showed that certain tubers actually restored nitrogen? Peanuts! Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 05:45:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2ADimf5006207; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:44:49 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2ADik7B006180; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:44:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:44:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:44:41 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8125FEA87D115-1268-3DB1@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <410-220063510122558525@earthlink.net> <039101c64440$c4e05630$3800a8c0@zothan> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <039101c64440$c4e05630$3800a8c0@zothan> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Farrell responds to Pimentel regarding ethanol Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.65 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2ADijiQ006159 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66883 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Michel Jullian Thanks for the very documented enlightenment on air nitrogen fixing plants (legumes), would there be a problem in using them directly as biofuel convertible biomass do you think?  <><><><><><><> I guess I should read all the messages before posting. However, peanut oil can be used to run farm machinery. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 05:57:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2ADvQai013022; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:57:26 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2ADvOT3013000; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:57:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:57:24 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <03a401c6444a$8adb14c0$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-22006351013217663@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Farrell responds to Pimentel regarding ethanol Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:57:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0610-1, 08/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66884 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Again thanks for the teaching Fred, I had no idea it was the case! The only biofuels that are ever mentioned here in France are Colza oil and ethanol. Then nitrogen fertilizing is indeed a moot point wrt biofuel such as soydiesel, or what am I missing again in my presomptuous reinventing of the biofuel wheel? ;) Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 2:21 PM Subject: Re: Farrell responds to Pimentel regarding ethanol > Michel Jullian writes: >> >> Hi Fred (your reply-to pb isn't fixed BTW) >> >> Thanks for the very documented enlightenment on air nitrogen fixing > plants >> (legumes), would there be a problem in using them directly as biofuel >> convertible biomass do you think? > > You're welcome. Soydiesel from soybean crops is a hot item these days, > Michel. > > You can have your "Tofu Cake" and motor fuel too. :-) > > http://www.soyfoods.com/soyfoodsdescriptions/tofu.html > > http://energy.cas.psu.edu/soydiesel.html > > Fred >> >> Michel >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Frederick Sparber" >> To: "vortex-l" >> Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 1:25 PM >> Subject: Re: Farrell responds to Pimentel regarding ethanol >> >> >> > Crop rotation fixes the nitrogen energy problem. >> > >> > Using hybrid seed I had no problem getting 120 bushel/acre corn planted > on >> > land that grew soybeans the year before. >> > >> > I doubt the Amish in that northwester Pennsylvania area now, don't > sweat >> > it either. >> > >> > http://www.princeton.edu/~hos/mike/texts/readmach/zmaczynski.htm >> > >> > "The early 20th century produced three methods to "fix" nitrogen, that > is, >> > convert it from an inactive gas in the air to nitrogen compounds that >> > would be further reacted to produce fertilizers or used directly. Two >> > methods, the electric arc process and the cyanamid process never proved >> > important in making fertilizer in the United States though they were of >> > some importance through the first part of this century. The third > process, >> > the Haber Process, has made a lasting impression on chemical technology >> > and fertilizers." >> > >> > http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/AG152 >> > >> > "All plants must have nitrogen (N) for growth. Approximately 110 > million >> > tons of N are required for the world's annual food production but only > 7 >> > million tons are supplied by the fertilizer industry; the rest come > from >> > legumes. Legumes are plants, like peas, beans, soybean, alfalfa, > clover, >> > and aeschynomene, that have special bacteria in their rooting system > and >> > make use of N from the air. The air we breathe is 78% nitrogen gas, and >> > 21% oxygen. There are ~35,000 tons of free N above every acre of land, > but >> > this gaseous form is unavailable to plant or animal life. Fortunately, >> > nature has provided us with a simple and cheap method of obtaining some > of >> > this N from the atmosphere by the growing of legumes." >> > >> > "Most, but not all legumes have the capacity to fix N. The quantity of > N >> > fixed depends on several factors, such as (1) the kind of legume, (2) > the >> > effectiveness of the N-fixing bacteria, (3) the soil conditions > including >> > pH and N fertilizer, and (4) availability of necessary plant food such > as >> > carbohydrates, phosphorus (P), potassium (K), magnesium (Mg), calcium >> > (Ca), iron (Fe), molybdenum (Mo), copper (Cu), and boron (B). For > example, >> > estimates of N fixed in a growing season for alfalfa are 100-200 lb/A; >> > berseem clover, 50-210 lb/A; red clover, 50-200 lb/A; white clover, > 50-150 >> > lb/A; hairy vetch, 100 lb/A; and aeschynomene, 50-150 lb/A. In soils > that >> > are well supplied with N fertilizer, there may be little or no fixation >> > because the plants use available N in the soil and do not encourage the >> > bacteria to fix more. As a result, the greatest N fixation is obtained > in >> > soils low in available N." >> > >> > These probably exceed the EPA/s groundwater "nitrate" pollution levels > in >> > soils. :-) > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 07:31:50 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AFVV0L000771; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 07:31:31 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2AFVT8k000742; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 07:31:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 07:31:29 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060310102149.03429440@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 10:31:24 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: CMNS: Electric power measurement suggestion In-Reply-To: <037001c64437$e4a2c380$3800a8c0@zothan> References: <037001c64437$e4a2c380$3800a8c0@zothan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66885 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michel Jullian wrote: >Power meter: my opinion is that even the most expensive power meter cannot >accurately measure electric power delivered directly to a CF cell's >electrodes when arcing or even microdischarges occur in the cell . . . I do not know the technical details, but Yokogawa's product engineers are confident that the meter they sold Mizuno works correctly in the glow discharge experiment. The engineers visited Mizuno for several days and observed the experiment. They worked with instrumentation engineers from another company (that paid for the experiment, and wishes to remain anonymous). They used high speed oscilloscopes and other instruments to confirm the waveform. Yokogawa recommended a top-of-the-line $16,000 power meter, but actually, the results from this meter are within 1% of the Hewlett-Packard computer-based metering system, so it is not really necessary. Either that or both instrument systems are completely wrong, and by fantastic coincidence, the errors match to within 1%. I think there is no chance of that. Note that the cell often produces violent glow discharge perturbations and no excess -- a perfect balance of input and output. Actually, when it is producing excess heat, the perturbations are somewhat reduced, input power is lower, in the cell is in a steady state. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 07:36:16 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AFZtU2003204; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 07:35:56 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2AFZrlW003186; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 07:35:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 07:35:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 10:35:47 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8126F6FC72E5F-21D4-3FD1@mblkn-m19.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <410-22006351013217663@earthlink.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <410-22006351013217663@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Farrell responds to Pimentel regarding ethanol Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.137 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66886 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Frederick Sparber Soydiesel from soybean crops is a hot item these days, Michel. <><><><><><><> My first wife was from Indiana. Interesting agriculture there. On even years, corn is planted on the right and soybean on the left. Odd years, vice versa. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 08:14:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AGEXS4023560; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:14:34 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2AGEUZ2023526; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:14:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:14:30 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Ethanol breakthrough Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 10:14:29 -0600 Message-ID: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B4F46D2@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Ethanol breakthrough Thread-Index: AcZEXbVgwaWELwSbSNWI0xJkHriKDA== From: "Zell, Chris" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Mar 2006 16:14:28.0034 (UTC) FILETIME=[B4AA3A20:01C6445D] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2AGERsf023498 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66887 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: See: www.techbriefs.com/techsearch/tow/ethanol.html Produces profitable ethanol and silica from waste plant material. Market already exists for rice growers to use device, to profit from present waste. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 08:55:34 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AGtHbv015267; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:55:18 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2AGtGce015236; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:55:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:55:16 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <005d01c64463$66d0f860$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Subject: Coincidental? Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:55:13 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66888 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Were you wondering what the Prez meant by a couple of vague references to "new energy technology" in recent speeches? Over the years, many observers of BLP have noted and commented on the successful "Thermacore experiment," and the possibility of a "lost opportunity" having been there for some kind of demonstrable anomalous energy phenomenon and "new physics". In today's energy news, GE has finally confirmed a long-standing rumor - and says its "new technology" could make the hydrogen economy affordable by "slashing the cost of water-splitting technology." This is the major part of that "new technology" which Bush cryptically alluded to recently. In some ways, however, this new technology is remarkably similar to the old Thermacore cell - a fact which will NOT hear confirmed by GE. As a side note, GE is the prototypical "well-connected clique" - and one which constantly finds new ways to leverage a dominant position in many markets, its incredible political clout, and its enormous R&D resources - all in order to re-invent itself anew every generation. At various points in time, GE's corporate motto has been: ... "progress is our most important product" ... ... "imagination at work" ... "we're in the business of building businesses." ... "we bring good things to life" ... but not "we bring old inventions back to life" ... and that may be part of today's "spin" ... for those who enjoy "reading between the lines." The big problem facing the (recently) politically-correct goal of a national "hydrogen economy" (now that W has seen the light - and what it means in terms of securing Federal funding) is simple: how to make hydrogen cheaply. Nuclear energy has heretofore been the most likely way, and GE is in on that avenue also. Splitting water using electricity from energy sources such as wind, solar, OTEC, waves or tidal flow is too expensive to be practical. Researchers at GE now are claiming a less expensive process to directly produce hydrogen via electrolysis for about $3 per kilogram. One kg of H2 is comparable to a gallon of gasoline in energy, but perhaps can deliver a little more equivalent in an automobile - yet today's cost for H2 is said (by GE) to be $8 per kilogram. As almost everyone appreciates, this time next year H2 at $3/kg will be a bargain. GE goes on to say (perhaps disingenuously) "You can only make it so much more efficient; there isn't a lot you can do. So we've attacked the capital costs" ... aha ... the spin is also PC. Other observers of persistent rumors at the company are not so sure that the Thermacore setup of potassium hydroxide and nickel is not adding something vital to the mix which they would rather NOT divulge publicly (even though the Thermacore patent has lapsed). Instead GE claims a plastic called Noryl is the key to a relatively cheap electrolyzer - as it is used to coat the electrodes with a proprietary nickel-based catalyst with a large surface area. The problem with GE's public spin is: 1) the plastic is NOT cheap and in fact is very expensive. 2) the actual efficiency figures are being closely guarded, but the rumors are provocative. 3) you cannot keep engineers at conferences (especially at happy hour in the Hotel lounge - from bragging). 4) the plastic is a good proton conductor 5) GE does not want to jeopardize its patent position, and in some ways Noryl is both a key element AND a red herring. Needless to say, many on this forum, and Boulder, and in parts of Joisey are anxiously awaiting the "spin-free" version of this story. Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 09:26:06 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AHPlxx000821; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:25:51 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2AHPkZS000791; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:25:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:25:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <4411B669.6070708@usfamily.net> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:24:57 -0600 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: A weather expert speaks Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66889 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I listened to this man being interviewed on C to C AM a few days ago. Roy Soencer was a NASA weather expert. Now he is a NAS contrater. He argues that the models for predicting how the weather works, don't work very well. and they only apply to the bottom 10 KM of the atmosphere. The greatest greenhouse gas is watervapor. The increased melting of glacers can be accounted for by increased percipitation which is making the icepacks thicker. He has authored a website, http://www.ecoenquirer.com , all of the stories are spoofs. Some people have too much time on their hands. --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 11:12:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AJBuBT027764; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:11:56 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2AJBqxB027739; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:11:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:11:52 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=aTIhDKneRoZwdhr2IoJqyS2NzkJlnnp5HOhKpKe8sy0m+G0L2fSJnglEGwXA9hek; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063510191136800@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: MRO due to arrive Mars Shortly Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:11:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940f3ca01883d368ac10392df1211c48dc4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.246 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66890 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII http://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/mro/ "Mar 10: Live Mars Orbit Insertion Coverage (12:30 - 2:45 pm Pacific)" Still have address pb, Michel? Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
 
 
"Mar 10: Live Mars Orbit Insertion Coverage (12:30 - 2:45 pm Pacific)"
 
Still have address pb, Michel?
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 11:21:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AJLHBZ001007; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:21:17 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2AJLD0v000975; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:21:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:21:13 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f In-Reply-To: <03a401c6444a$8adb14c0$3800a8c0@zothan> References: <410-22006351013217663@earthlink.net> <03a401c6444a$8adb14c0$3800a8c0@zothan> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <68915562-9BCB-40DC-A512-8D16BC1A8035@mtaonline.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Farrell responds to Pimentel regarding ethanol Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 10:21:07 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66891 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mar 10, 2006, at 4:57 AM, Michel Jullian wrote: > Again thanks for the teaching Fred, I had no idea it was the case! > The only biofuels that are ever mentioned here in France are Colza > oil and ethanol. > > Then nitrogen fertilizing is indeed a moot point wrt biofuel such > as soydiesel, or what am I missing again in my presomptuous > reinventing of the biofuel wheel? ;) The problem with regard to nitrogen fixation and other soil depletion is the not that it *can* be circumvented by judicious management, but rather what *may* actually happen and what is actually proposed to happen. For example, elephant grass is touted as the solution to ethanol production in northern latitudes. However, see: http://www.fao.org/ag/agp/agpc/doc/Gbase/DATA/Pf000301.htm "A complete fertilizer mixture may be needed for establishment according to soil fertility. In Tobago, West Indies, a crop of elephant grass removed 463 kg nitrogen, 96 kg phosphorus and 594 kg potassium per hectare per year. The optimum phosphorus content of the dry matter for growth was determined as 0.248 percent for the purple type and 0.215 percent for the green variety (Falade, 1975). High rates of nitrogen generally give good responses (Walmsley, Sargeant & Dookeran, 1978) especially in the third and subsequent years when the native soil nitrogen has been exhausted (Vicente-Chandler et al., 1953). The latter authors suggested that the highest yields could be expected from cutting at 12-week intervals and applying nitrogen after every cut." If oil hits $150 a barrel then it will be more expedient to buy fertilizer and make a killing in a market which may not last than to worry about crop rotation. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 11:23:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AJN2IZ001822; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:23:03 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2AJN0VU001786; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:23:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:23:00 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:22:52 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C8128F29205FCD-2680-17B7C@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Viktor Schauberger's UFO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.133 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66892 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: There's vids of this Coanda effect model: http://jlnlabs.imars.com/gfsuav/ Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 11:24:41 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AJOD9X002839; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:24:13 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2AJOB7t002807; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:24:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:24:11 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <002e01c64478$326c7210$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-220063510191136800@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: MRO due to arrive Mars Shortly Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:24:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0610-2, 10/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: <-rjyg.A.ur.bJdEEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66893 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I am afraid so Fred :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 8:11 PM Subject: Re: MRO due to arrive Mars Shortly > http://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/mro/ > > > "Mar 10: Live Mars Orbit Insertion Coverage (12:30 - 2:45 pm Pacific)" > > Still have address pb, Michel? > > Fred From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 11:56:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AJtlcf018510; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:55:51 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2AJteD0018446; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:55:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:55:40 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:55:29 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C81293B792F45F-212C-A14D@mblkn-m14.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Another Magmo Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.132 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66895 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This one looks like it is in the licensing stage: http://www.rematinc.com/countdown.html by http://www.gmcholdings.com/ Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 12:14:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AKAb0l026779; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:14:02 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2AJXLgC008224; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:33:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:33:21 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <003c01c64479$761ad780$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-22006351013217663@earthlink.net> <03a401c6444a$8adb14c0$3800a8c0@zothan> <68915562-9BCB-40DC-A512-8D16BC1A8035@mtaonline.net> Subject: Re: Farrell responds to Pimentel regarding ethanol Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:32:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0610-2, 10/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66894 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Good point Horace. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Horace Heffner" To: Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 8:21 PM Subject: Re: Farrell responds to Pimentel regarding ethanol > > On Mar 10, 2006, at 4:57 AM, Michel Jullian wrote: > >> Again thanks for the teaching Fred, I had no idea it was the case! >> The only biofuels that are ever mentioned here in France are Colza >> oil and ethanol. >> >> Then nitrogen fertilizing is indeed a moot point wrt biofuel such >> as soydiesel, or what am I missing again in my presomptuous >> reinventing of the biofuel wheel? ;) > > The problem with regard to nitrogen fixation and other soil depletion > is the not that it *can* be circumvented by judicious management, but > rather what *may* actually happen and what is actually proposed to > happen. For example, elephant grass is touted as the solution to > ethanol production in northern latitudes. However, see: > > http://www.fao.org/ag/agp/agpc/doc/Gbase/DATA/Pf000301.htm > > "A complete fertilizer mixture may be needed for establishment > according to soil fertility. In Tobago, West Indies, a crop of > elephant grass removed 463 kg nitrogen, 96 kg phosphorus and 594 kg > potassium per hectare per year. The optimum phosphorus content of the > dry matter for growth was determined as 0.248 percent for the purple > type and 0.215 percent for the green variety (Falade, 1975). High > rates of nitrogen generally give good responses (Walmsley, Sargeant & > Dookeran, 1978) especially in the third and subsequent years when the > native soil nitrogen has been exhausted (Vicente-Chandler et al., > 1953). The latter authors suggested that the highest yields could be > expected from cutting at 12-week intervals and applying nitrogen > after every cut." > > If oil hits $150 a barrel then it will be more expedient to buy > fertilizer and make a killing in a market which may not last than to > worry about crop rotation. > > Horace Heffner > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 12:28:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AKAtDU026917; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:10:55 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2AKAmwX026855; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:10:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:10:48 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=pacbell.net; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=zOEfnLCNvQtzZAaiv2ixokIqnAbdqks8vOg3m0sMJzovndRF8INXgofcRMyRSv+AbuxvDbZHz3gJj3GEt1+WkpJhEjeeZRoZk2M7xD4nsgvwt3wQmm8aIa5qsoBuzwl1t3541Dl9kH4xkOTQETau5dM3rZPuLhRbk/AjcPTClvI= ; Message-ID: <20060310200359.13023.qmail@web81107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:03:59 -0800 (PST) From: Jones Beene Subject: OT: Science Friday Writing Lesson To: vortex MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <2oJG_.A.ejG.F1dEEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66896 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This "extended-smiley" originally came from solving the NYT Sunday x-word puzzle (just got around to that today, 14 minutes - new record) but its humor, now enhanced, is worth sharing with those who need a few tips from the recognized professional expert on such things as anti-semantics 1) Split infinitives - wrong to ever split them 2) Rhetorical questions - who needs them? 3) Exaggeration - all-time worst mistake 4) Prepostions - not good to end sentences with 5) Contractions - aren't necessary 6) Ambiguity - is more or less OK 7) Double negatives - don't never need them. 8) Sentence fragements. Don't even think about it. 9) Subject-verb agreement - are usually immaterial 10)Case - between you and I, case is important. 11)When dangling, watch your participles. 12)Use your apostrophe's correctly. 13)Avoid cliches like the plague. 14)Don't use commas, that aren't necessary. ...and lastly, the one I never fail not to do 15)Correct spelling is always essentail. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 13:11:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2ALBMxC031565; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:11:23 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2ALBJ7k031534; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:11:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:11:19 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:11:12 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C8129E4B8E9FAE-C70-24ED6@mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Attractive Energy Sources Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.134 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66897 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This article: http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&thold=-1&mode= flat&order=0&sid=1464 http://tinyurl.com/ogty2 says Mark Goldes has a 1kW unit in production: "One of MPI?s solid-state Proof-of-Concept (POC) devices has opened a path to early production of 1,000 Watt Magnetic Power Modules(tm). This prototype has demonstrated slightly more output than input. When output repeatedly rises to our target level, an independent lab will be given the opportunity to validate the work." I'll take one. How much, Mark? Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 13:30:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2ALUG72009113; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:30:17 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2ALUDaW009082; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:30:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:30:13 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060310160457.03471b68@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:30:01 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Hydrogen from electrolysis versus gasoline In-Reply-To: <005d01c64463$66d0f860$6401a8c0@NuDell> References: <005d01c64463$66d0f860$6401a8c0@NuDell> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66898 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones Beene wrote: >Nuclear energy has heretofore been the most likely way, and GE is in >on that avenue also. Splitting water using electricity from energy >sources such as wind, solar, OTEC, waves or tidal flow is too >expensive to be practical. It would not be expensive according to my calculations -- see below. The energy cost works out to ~$3.39 per gallon of gasline equivalent. Perhaps the cost of capital equipment would add significantly to that. >Researchers at GE now are claiming a less expensive process to >directly produce hydrogen via electrolysis for about $3 per >kilogram. One kg of H2 is comparable to a gallon of gasoline in energy . . . Is it? Lessee . . . The heat of formation of water 285,800 joules per mole . . . There are 2 g of H per mole of water, multiply by 1000 to make a kilogram . . . 143 MJ, versus 132 MJ/kg of gasoline. Yes, that's close. Okay, getting back to the energy cost, assume wind powered electricity costs $0.06/kWh unsubsidized (without PTC). Electrolysis circa 1990 was 65% efficient. See the document I mentioned yesterday for details: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/NRELenergyover.pdf Okay, 1 gallon gasoline has 132 MJ = 36.67 kWh. Divide by 65% to get 56.42 kWh input energy 56.42 kWh * $0.06 = $3.39 As Beene pointed out hydrogen is probably somewhat more efficient than gasoline in an ICE. (It would be 3 times more efficient used in a fuel-cell, but that is not of near-term development.) So if gasoline goes over three dollars a gallon, it seems to me that hydrogen generated with electrolysis should be competitive. I cannot imagine where GE came up with the cost of $8/kg for hydrogen. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 14:37:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AMbdiK007396; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:37:39 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2AMbbqj007374; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:37:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:37:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:37:30 -0500 Message-Id: <8C812AA599243F2-C70-251CD@mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <8C8129E4B8E9FAE-C70-24ED6@mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <8C8129E4B8E9FAE-C70-24ED6@mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Attractive Energy Sources Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.134 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2AMbZ47007353 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66899 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:11:12 -0500 Subject: Attractive Energy Sources This article:    http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&thold=-1&mode=   flat&order=0&sid=1464    http://tinyurl.com/ogty2    says Mark Goldes has a 1kW unit in production:  <><><><><><> Well, it really doesn't say MPI has them in actual production; however this company: http://cycclone.com/welcome/page1.php says they will put a magmo in a Jeep Cherokee and drive across the outback: http://cycclone.com/welcome/docs/20040910_cycclone_flyer.pdf if any of these magmo work, why are we worried about any other form of energy? Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 14:46:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AMk69c011598; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:46:07 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2AMk5kV011568; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:46:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:46:05 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060310144747.02cb7c88@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:47:57 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: NEW ENERGY TIMES (tm) MARCH 10, 2006 -- Issue #15 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="=====================_1573058437==.REL" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66900 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=====================_1573058437==.REL Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_1573058437==.ALT" --=====================_1573058437==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed [] Your best source for cold fusion news and information. March 10, 2006 -- Issue #15 ISSUE #15 is available online at http://newenergytimes.com/news/NET15.htm EDITORIALS AND OPINION 1. From the Editor 2. To the Editor NEWS & ANNOUNCEMENTS 3. U.S. Cold Fusion Session at APS Conference 4. International Cold Fusion Conferences 5. ICCF-13 The 13th International Conference on Condensed Matter Nuclear Science 6. ICCF-14 The 14th International Conference on Condensed Matter Nuclear Science ANALYSIS AND PERSPECTIVES 7. Glenn Seaborg: Nuclear Alchemist, Political Scientist 8. Report on Innovative Energy Solutions Inc. 9. Widom-Larsen Low Energy Nuclear Reaction Theory, Part 3 BITS AND PIECES 10. On Science, Journalism, and Nature 11. Pre-Print Available from F.A. Gareev and I.E. Zhidkova 12. Cold Fusion: A 2005 Outlook 13. United States Cold Fusion Patent Application 20050276366 14. In the News 15. Speakers Available - Experts on the Subject of Cold Fusion 16. Support New Energy Times (tm) 17. Administrative New Energy Times (tm) is a project of New Energy Institute, an independent 501(c)(3) nonprofit corporation which provides information and educational services to help bring about the clean-energy revolution. The New Energy Times (tm) newsletter, Web site, and documentary projects are made possible by the generous contributions of our sponsors and supporters. ---------- If you have received this announcement from a colleague and you wish to be added to the New Energy Times (tm) mailing list, or if you would like to unsubscribe, click here http://newenergytimes.com/news/news.htm. --=====================_1573058437==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

[]
Your best source for cold fusion news and information.
March 10, 2006 -- Issue #15


 ISSUE #15 is available online at http://newenergytimes.com/news/NET15.htm

 

EDITORIALS AND OPINION
 1.   From the Editor
2.   To the Editor
NEWS & ANNOUNCEMENTS
3.   U.S. Cold Fusion Session at APS Conference
4.   International Cold Fusion Conferences
5.   ICCF-13 The 13th International Conference on Condensed Matter Nuclear Science
6.   ICCF-14 The 14th International Conference on Condensed Matter Nuclear Science
ANALYSIS AND PERSPECTIVES
7.   Glenn Seaborg: Nuclear Alchemist, Political Scientist
8.   Report on Innovative Energy Solutions Inc.
9.   Widom-Larsen Low Energy Nuclear Reaction Theory, Part 3
BITS AND PIECES
 10.  On Science, Journalism, and Nature
11.  Pre-Print Available from F.A. Gareev and I.E. Zhidkova
12.  Cold Fusion: A 2005 Outlook
13.  United States Cold Fusion Patent Application 20050276366
14.  In the News
15.  Speakers Available - Experts on the Subject of Cold Fusion
16.  Support New Energy Times (tm)
17.  Administrative

 



New Energy Times (tm) is a project of New Energy Institute, an independent 501(c)(3) nonprofit corporation which provides information and educational services to help bring about the clean-energy revolution.
 
The New Energy Times (tm) newsletter, Web site, and documentary projects are made possible by the generous contributions of our sponsors and supporters.


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MYHX8cfXPGD371/CmYYzF5ljMVmONnLF4rGYl1qs5y5pc82pSnKUrtycnKXN+S0P3/CYeng8Ph8N Tbdr3lLWUrJP3nd+u7vd3v1s0Ug5APqBS1kdQUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFJ7fOP5oAqF/vH8 P5Ciirjv93/pURraXp+qMWeCFiu6GJv3jtzGh+YAYbkdR2PWrNvb26PFsghTlvuxIvY+iiiivWl/ A/7df/pMj5Ol/wAjrEf44/8ApCNbA9B+QpqAYBwM+uOep70UV41TZetP84n01H4X6r/0iI+iiima dV6P84hRRRQMKKKKACiiigD/2Q== --=====================_1573058437==.REL-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 14:50:21 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2AMo12a013948; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:50:01 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2AMnxut013929; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:49:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:49:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <004201c64494$f3b7dec0$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <005d01c64463$66d0f860$6401a8c0@NuDell> <7.0.1.0.2.20060310160457.03471b68@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Hydrogen from electrolysis versus gasoline Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:49:54 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66901 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jed Rothwell" > It would not be expensive according to my calculations -- see > below. The energy cost works out to ~$3.39 per gallon of gasline > equivalent. Perhaps the cost of capital equipment would add > significantly to that. Indeed it would add a significant amount. That is exactly why the GE figure of $3/kg which includes not only capital equipment and overhead but also all other expenses and profit MUST be the result of at least double the yield (or more) compared to the normal efficiency of electrolysis. IOW the GE figure of $3 is apparently a wholesale price to the dealer (comparable to the gasoline wholesale price which is now ~$1.75). When you use 'just' the energy-cost of $3.39, you are not comparing apples to apples. Of course, GE has not admitted anything remotely like OU - but anyone can run the numbers and see that they MUST have something of extraordinary efficiency. Consequently, the GE process could very likely be overunity, it would seem, and there have been rumors of this for some time. Before anything from the private sector (non-military) gets to the White House, it is often widely rumored elsewhere. And given the similarity to Thermacore (now Modine) prior art, which is now in the public domain, GE would still not want this "history" widely known, if it were accurate. Inasmuch as GE is a company which does not need either outside investment or publicity - they will probably have factories built before they acknowledge anything which would motivate competitors - or former inventors. The only thing GE does not have as a resource can be called "agility" and they do not want to let a smaller, more agile company or inventor to step in and patent some minor improvement, which could outflank whatever it is that they do have. Certainly the addition of Noryl to the Thermacore patent is itself patentable - otherwise you might not have heard anything from them at all. At least that is one 'take' on the current situation, and everyone expects more of this story to come out soon. Most likely, Dubya was not 'blowing smoke' on his past references to energy breakthroughs. Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 15:11:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2ANB5YY024253; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:11:05 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2ANB3Jr024234; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:11:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:11:03 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=KDtD62tQRcpNPVfwqSQfFEP5h89jRuKfCcek3omOhJa5M3mDEkMUeup3oH33tXfK; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063510231051348@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Farrell responds to Pimentel regarding ethanol Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:10:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94062b5a842fc9cc672c42d67161efa0191350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.241 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66902 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote > > > The problem with regard to nitrogen fixation and other soil depletion > is the not that it *can* be circumvented by judicious management, but > rather what *may* actually happen and what is actually proposed to > happen. For example, elephant grass is touted as the solution to > ethanol production in northern latitudes. However, see: > > http://www.fao.org/ag/agp/agpc/doc/Gbase/DATA/Pf000301.htm > > "A complete fertilizer mixture may be needed for establishment > according to soil fertility. In Tobago, West Indies, a crop of > elephant grass removed 463 kg nitrogen, 96 kg phosphorus and 594 kg > potassium per hectare per year. The optimum phosphorus content of the > dry matter for growth was determined as 0.248 percent for the purple > type and 0.215 percent for the green variety (Falade, 1975). High > rates of nitrogen generally give good responses (Walmsley, Sargeant & > Dookeran, 1978) especially in the third and subsequent years when the > native soil nitrogen has been exhausted (Vicente-Chandler et al., > 1953). The latter authors suggested that the highest yields could be > expected from cutting at 12-week intervals and applying nitrogen > after every cut." > I got into using agricuturally produced biomass to support agriculture to maintain an available and affordable food supply in early 1970s. Using that resource to support gas guzzling vehicles with an ethanol blend on frivolous journeys wasn't part of the agenda. I teamed up with local consulting firm agro-economists and soil scientists and we arrived at. benifit/requirement ratio of 16 to 1 based on prudent agro practices, state-of the-art conversion of biomass to synthesis gas (CO + H2) for synthetic fuels using the Fischer-Tropsch process, and H2 for NH3 production using the Haber process. Recycling of essential plant minerals was included in the effort. Fast Growing/Temperate Climate Bamboo species will produce over 40 tonnes dry weight per acre. I had some started from a few clones in my backyard. The yield was determined with the help of the local Ag experiment station http://www.pacificrenewables.com/fischer-tropsch.htm http://www.westbioenergy.org/lessons/les04.htm Although we were about a decade ahead of the pack, news of this "sunlight at the end of the tunnel" kept a lot of farmers whose energy costs had gone through the roof from throwing in the towel. Unfortunately contact with one large agro-business firm with a reminder about the fuel alcohol potential, turned them into government-subsidized alcoholics. > If oil hits $150 a barrel then it will be more expedient to buy > fertilizer and make a killing in a market which may not last than to > worry about crop rotation. > Good deal. Then sidewalk-footpath construction and closing shopping malls will employ those that lost their jobs to out-sourcing. Fred > > Horace Heffner > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 15:28:08 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2ANRi89031013; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:27:48 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2ANRhwt031003; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:27:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:27:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <007201c6449a$305d21a0$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> From: "Nick Palmer" To: References: <8C81293B792F45F-212C-A14D@mblkn-m14.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: Another Magmo Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 23:27:21 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66903 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Looks more like a pump and dump operation for their GMCC shares. They claim they are negotiating with Fortune 500 companies to sell them the rights to this "technology" for between $300-500 million dollars, of which they say they will give 96% to their shareholders when the sale goes through... As Chris Tinsley used to say - "run for the hills"!! Nick Palmer From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 15:35:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2ANZSnd002522; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:35:29 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2ANZRZc002499; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:35:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:35:27 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:35:23 -0500 Message-Id: <8C812B26FDA97A6-2768-4FCF@mblkn-m09.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <8C81293B792F45F-212C-A14D@mblkn-m14.sysops.aol.com> <007201c6449a$305d21a0$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <007201c6449a$305d21a0$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Another Magmo Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.73 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2ANZPd8002478 Resent-Message-ID: <2biA3B.A.6m.-0gEEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66904 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Nick Palmer Looks more like a pump and dump operation for their GMCC shares. They claim they are negotiating with Fortune 500 companies to sell them the rights to this "technology" for between $300-500 million dollars, of which they say they will give 96% to their shareholders when the sale goes through... As Chris Tinsley used to say - "run for the hills"!!  <><><><><><><> Indeed. At least cycclone.com has a fairly good web page. Speaking of pump and dump, this site: http://perendev-power.com/My_Homepage_Files/Page4.html has updated their video. Much better quality with background music!! Hey, a 300 kW magmo for only 20,000 euros sounds like a deal. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 15:37:04 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2ANaiY2003205; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:36:49 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2ANafUq003175; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:36:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:36:41 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060310181723.035cbb50@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:36:36 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Hydrogen from electrolysis versus gasoline In-Reply-To: <004201c64494$f3b7dec0$6401a8c0@NuDell> References: <005d01c64463$66d0f860$6401a8c0@NuDell> <7.0.1.0.2.20060310160457.03471b68@mindspring.com> <004201c64494$f3b7dec0$6401a8c0@NuDell> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66905 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones Beene wrote: >>It would not be expensive according to my calculations -- see >>below. The energy cost works out to ~$3.39 per gallon of gasline >>equivalent. Perhaps the cost of capital equipment would add >>significantly to that. > >Indeed it would add a significant amount. That is exactly why the GE >figure of $3/kg which includes not only capital equipment and >overhead but also all other expenses and profit MUST be the result >of at least double the yield (or more) compared to the normal >efficiency of electrolysis. Well, it does not seem like it should add much. The NREL energy overview document says the capital cost of electrolysis generation equipment circa 1990 is $1000 per kilowatt of capacity (see table C1, p. 15). That is the same as a refinery and it is cheaper than a central baseload fossil plant ($1500). It is hard to believe that $1000 per kilowatt capacity would add $5/kg to the cost of hydrogen, unless you are making only a few kilograms I suppose . . . >IOW the GE figure of $3 is apparently a wholesale price to the >dealer (comparable to the gasoline wholesale price which is now >~$1.75). When you use 'just' the energy-cost of $3.39, you are not >comparing apples to apples. Well, $0.06/kWh is the wholesale price of electricity. Actually, it is the high-end non-PTC cost for wind turbine electricity. Often the cost is closer to four cents, which would bring the cost of hydrogen down to $2.26 equivalent, which is cheaper than regular gasoline in Atlanta today. Based on this, I suppose that in North Dakota you could install wind turbines and start generating hydrogen for ICE engines economically. Actually, as a practical matter, electricity itself is worth more than vehicle fuel, so a dual use system would be best. You would set up a vast number of turbines to provide nearly all of electricity used locally for conventional purposes during the day, and you would generate hydrogen during periods of low demand at day and most of the night. Normally, when more than 20% of electricity comes from wind turbines, load balancing becomes a big problem. With this scheme it would not be a problem because whenever demand fell significantly you would divert the load into hydrogen generation, and you would continue to supply some electricity with quick response load-balancing generators, which I suppose would be natural gas turbines. Actually, I would prefer to see them generate some sort of hydrogen based synthetic fuel, but I expect the efficiency of that operation would be far lower than 65%, so is probably not a good idea. >Of course, GE has not admitted anything remotely like OU - but >anyone can run the numbers and see that they MUST have something of >extraordinary efficiency. The NREL document predicted 75% efficiency would be achieved by now. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 16:11:02 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2B0AltX018692; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:10:49 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2B0AkVu018675; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:10:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:10:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <007501c644a0$3b94ee30$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060310144747.02cb7c88@mail.newenergytimes.com> Subject: Re: NEW ENERGY TIMES (tm) MARCH 10, 2006 -- Issue #15 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:10:40 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0072_01C6445D.2CFA8260" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66906 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0072_01C6445D.2CFA8260 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steve, Great job. I took the liberty of sending the following post to the = hydrino group: Subj: Sonofusion Fraud Possibility ar Purdue - NOT An excellent background article on this current situation, which=20 is relevant to Mills/BLP and the sad state of Science Journalism=20 in "Nature" compounded by the 'me-too' antics of the NYT appears=20 at: http://newenergytimes.com/news/NET15.htm#bubbletrouble Let's hope that Mills, no matter how you feel about the validity=20 of his theoretical work, does not fall prey to this same kind of=20 irresponsible journalism... where grad students with sloppy=20 computer simulations override real experimental data - at least in=20 the minds of some journalists. There is a thin line here - we all want to be able to be openly=20 critical of percieved errors - at least online and in a=20 forum-setting, but at the same time find it repugnant to have=20 misinformed (or intentionally misled) journalists take charge of=20 the situation in front of a broader national audience - which will=20 definitely influence funding levels. Mills himself has of course,=20 in the past - appeared to threaten the voicing of free speech on=20 this forum. Regrettable... and now we see the other extreme of a=20 corresponding injustice - and possible behind-the-scenes=20 manipulation of the media-end of the info-balancing-beam.=20 Free-speech is ever so fine a balance. Go to article 10: 10. On Science, Journalism, and Nature by Steven B. Krivit "On the morning of March 8, 2006, Nature published an investigation=20 by freelance writer Eugenie Samuel Reich of the unique fusion=20 research pioneered by Rusi Taleyarkhan, professor of nuclear=20 engineering at Purdue University. Within 24 hours, the story was=20 picked up by 50 news outlets around the world." The final chapter has yet to be written on this subject, but at=20 this stage it is clear that the possibility of a self-serving=20 motivation (both financial and academic) behind the=20 Putterman/Naranjo involvements in both the BBC, Nature and NYT=20 reports - never mentioned until the media was confonted with the=20 evidence - and this should never have been permitted without full=20 and open disclosure. There is ample evidence of incredibly shoddy=20 jounalism by all three media giants - which could potentially=20 damage, if not ruin, the career of a fine researcher. If nothing else, one can almost sense the possibility of some=20 recourse to the legal system by the beleaguer and hounded=20 Taleyarkhan ... IF ... or course, his results do indeed hold up=20 under closer scrutiny. And in all fairness, it should be mentioned that sonofusion=20 experts like Ross Tessien are not certain that Taleyarkhan's results are = valid - but if nothing else, all the hoopla should serve to=20 motivate others to try to replicate the work. Regards, Jones Beene ------=_NextPart_000_0072_01C6445D.2CFA8260 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Steve,
 
Great job. I took the liberty of = sending the=20 following post to the hydrino group:
 
 
Subj: Sonofusion Fraud Possibility = ar Purdue -=20 NOT
 
 
An excellent background article on this current situation, which =
is=20 relevant to Mills/BLP and the sad state of Science Journalism
in = "Nature"=20 compounded by the 'me-too' antics of the NYT appears
at:
http://newenergytimes.com/news/NET15.htm#bubbletrouble
<= BR>Let's=20 hope that Mills, no matter how you feel about the validity
of his=20 theoretical work, does not fall prey to this same kind of =
irresponsible=20 journalism... where grad students with sloppy
computer simulations = override=20 real experimental data - at least in
the minds of some=20 journalists.

There is a thin line here - we all want to be able = to be=20 openly
critical of percieved errors - at least online and in a=20
forum-setting, but at the same time find it repugnant to have=20
misinformed (or intentionally misled) journalists take charge of =
the=20 situation in front of a broader national audience - which will =
definitely=20 influence funding levels. Mills himself has of course,
in the past - = appeared to threaten the voicing of free speech on
this forum.=20 Regrettable... and now we see the other extreme of a
corresponding = injustice=20 - and possible behind-the-scenes
manipulation of the media-end of = the=20 info-balancing-beam.
Free-speech is ever so fine a = balance.


Go to=20 article 10:

10. On Science, Journalism, and Nature
by Steven B. = Krivit

"On the morning of March 8, 2006, Nature published an = investigation=20
by freelance writer Eugenie Samuel Reich of the unique fusion =
research=20 pioneered by Rusi Taleyarkhan, professor of nuclear
engineering at = Purdue=20 University. Within 24 hours, the story was
picked up by 50 news = outlets=20 around the world."



The final chapter has yet to be = written on=20 this subject, but at
this stage it is clear that the possibility of = a=20 self-serving
motivation (both financial and academic) behind the=20
Putterman/Naranjo involvements in both the BBC, Nature and NYT =
reports -=20 never mentioned until the media was confonted with the
evidence - = and this=20 should never have been permitted without full
and open disclosure. = There is=20 ample evidence of incredibly shoddy
jounalism by all three media = giants -=20 which could potentially
damage, if not ruin, the career of a fine=20 researcher.

If nothing else, one can almost sense the possibility = of some=20
recourse to the legal system by the beleaguer and hounded =
Taleyarkhan=20 ... IF ... or course, his results do indeed hold up
under closer=20 scrutiny.

And in all fairness, it should be mentioned that = sonofusion=20
experts like Ross Tessien are not certain that Taleyarkhan's=20 results are
valid - but if nothing else, all the hoopla should = serve to=20
motivate others to try to replicate the = work.

Regards,

Jones=20 Beene


------=_NextPart_000_0072_01C6445D.2CFA8260-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 16:27:14 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2B0QsTW025512; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:26:54 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2B0Qm66025463; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:26:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:26:48 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060310192609.035fdd98@mindspring.com> Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060310183859.03535200@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:26:27 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: CMNS: Re: Re: Electric power measurement suggestion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66907 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Oops! Sorry, I did it again. Force of habit. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 16:36:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2B0Zw5J030586; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:35:58 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2B0ZvWX030569; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:35:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:35:57 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=ix.netcom.com; b=rbMWFVkzpZa3H7Oe+cNPyKuuS8rzLjfhxELZCRBoPOqAyA8CN2avKSA38DspCoE7; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006351016362720@ix.netcom.com> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: aki@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.1.47.0 (Windows) From: "" To: "vortex-l" Subject: FW: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday March 10, 2006 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:36:02 -00 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: c4cc7f5f697e8746f66dc3a06d5924d83777dd38d7d39c47cfd6e507194d07e1f966978d6047df59350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 216.175.94.221 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66908 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Foward from aki@ix.netcom.com (Akira Kawasaki) > [Original Message] > From: What's New To: Date: 3/10/2006 9:49:55 PM Subject: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday March 10, 2006 WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 10 Mar 06 Washington, DC 1. BUBBLE FUSION: NEWS OF SCIENCE THAT WON'T CHANGE YOUR LIFE. The story sounded vaguely familiar. A claim was made in the month of March that deuterium fusion had been produced in a desktop experiment. However, experienced nuclear physicists, using the same experimental setup except for better detection equipment, found no evidence of fusion. By early summer, the bubble burst. "Cold fusion" in 1989? No, "bubble fusion" in 2002, http://bobpark.physics.umd.edu/WN02/wn030102.html . But like cold fusion, the corpse of bubble fusion keeps twitching. In 2003, Rusi Taleyarkhan, who made the claim, moved from Oak Ridge to Purdue University. There he claimed to confirm fusion. Others found nothing. Last week, citing "extremely serious" concerns, Purdue announced a full review of Taleyarkhan's work. 2. SCHOOL SPIRIT: 8 OUT OF 10 ACADEMICS SAY THEY ARE SPIRITUAL. Maybe. Today's Chronicle of Higher Education reports on a UCLA survey of 46,670 faculty members at 421 institutions. Sixty-four percent called themselves religious, but there was only a 38% response rate to the survey. I would have summarized the results differently: 38% of faculty members are willing to respond to a survey about their spiritual beliefs. Anything else is a guess. 3. FAITH-BASED GOVERNMENT: FEDERAL MONEY FOR RELIGIOUS CHARITIES? President Bush this week signed an executive order establishing a religion-based office in Homeland Security. It will pray the levees hold in another hurricane. The Bush administration gave more than $2.1B to church operated social programs last year. 4. FAITH-BASED MISSILE DEFENSE: BUDGET CALLS FOR ANOTHER $10.8B. North Korea did test two short-range missiles this week, however, we haven't heard a thing about their long range missiles. Since the election we haven't seen missile defense even mentioned except in the budget. Last we heard it had failed every test. 5. THE MARS EFFECT: ORBITER WILL REACH THE RED PLANET TODAY. After a seven-month journey, it is due to fire its thrusters to achieve Mars orbit at 16:35 EST, about the time WN is sent out. If all goes well, and many Mars exploration missions have not, it will dip into the thin atmosphere to slow down, reaching its lowest orbit in November to begin making observations. 6. CASSINI MYSTERY: LIQUID WATER ON ENCELADUS, SATURN'S MOON. They haven't exactly seen water, but they have seen geysers on the geologically active little moon. There has already been much speculation about possible life on Enceladus, but it's way early for that. If NASA stays in its tail spin, we'll never know. 7. CREATIONISM FOUNDER HENRY MORRIS: DIED LAST MONTH AT AGE 87. Founder of the Creationism Institute, he wrote "The Genesis Flood," which founded the creationist movement. THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND. Opinions are the author's and not necessarily shared by the University of Maryland, but they should be. --- Archives of What's New can be found at http://www.bobpark.org What's New is moving to a different listserver and our subscription process has changed. To change your subscription status please visit this link: http://listserv.umd.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=bobparks-whatsnew&A=1 From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 17:08:09 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2B183cw015207; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:08:04 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2B15KUW014142; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:05:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:05:20 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060310193349.03535200@mindspring.com> Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060310185803.036111d0@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:05:14 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: My take on the Taleyarkhan affair Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2B15IBN014120 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66909 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have been Taleyarkhan with Yeong Kim, who is also a professor at Purdue, and with Ed Storms. Kim told me: >[Taleyarkhan] believes his bubble fusion is a >hot fusion. After he found out that I have been >working on cold fusion and told him that what he >is doing is cold fusion and not a hot fusion, he >has been avoiding me for any scientific or technical discussions . . . I have heard from other people that Taleyarkhan wants to distance himself from the field of cold fusion. It is not surprising. He knows what happened to cold fusion researchers! As to the technical question, is this some form of cold fusion, Kim suspects it might be and I gather so does McKubre. Storms disagrees. He thinks there is no connection between the Taleyarkhan effect and cold fusion. I cannot judge, but anyone can see that it is "mostly" hot fusion. However, many people such as the editors of Nature and Robert Park, vehemently oppose both kind of research. (They oppose anything that is new, original or interesting. They have made it their life's work to prevent progress.) This gang of naysayers has deliberately conflated the Taleyarkhan effect and cold fusion. They do this as a political tactic. Whether they actually believe there is a connection or not, they assert there is one, especially in the press, because they want to trigger attacks by the Washington Post, Time Magazine and other rabid opponents of cold fusion. In 1952, people used this political tactic to destroy business rivals (and sometimes jilted lovers, and other enemies), by calling them "communists." Whether the target really was a communist or not had nothing to do with it. The purpose was to destroy the guy with guilt by association. Ed Storms was baffled by the brouhaha in the press. He said: "Naturally the detected amounts are wrong because the measurements are not sensitive enough to see the expected ratio. What is the advantage to anyone to mix these two phenomenon?" As I said, the advantage is that you crush the opposition by associating them with cold fusion. But Storms, in an uncharacteristically naïve moment, said he does not understand why anyone would attack research in the newspapers in the first place. "This situation makes no sense." If these other researchers feel there is a problem with the experiment, they should discuss it by e-mail, or publish papers showing an error. Here is my take on the situation: Think Zeitgeist. This is the kind of age we live in. This is what science has come to. When people publish experimental results that contradict theory, instead of debating the issues according to logic and textbook knowledge, academic rivals spread false rumors, they threaten lawsuits, they meddle, and they conduct witch hunt investigations to derail the research and destroy careers. It worked with cold fusion, so now they do it every time something new comes along. Taleyarkhan is being investigated for "academic misconduct" because a theoretician thinks the experiment contradicts theory. It is now officially "misconduct" to do experiments that challenge textbook theory. Theoreticians have appointed themselves the high priests of science, and an experimentalist who does anything to upset them is not merely mistaken or foolish, as they said back in 1989. Now he is unethical, and he must be "investigated" and crushed. Perhaps, as Schwinger predicted, this will be the death of science. Science is at a low point, and no one can say when, or if, it will recover. But I expect it will. Valuable, vital institutions seldom collapse completely. Usually after they reach an dysfunctional extreme, a crisis occurs, and then the problems are fixed. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 18:19:24 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2B2J3ls015744; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:19:04 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2B2J1S4015711; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:19:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:19:01 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00ac01c644b2$25fddf20$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060310193349.03535200@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: My take on the Taleyarkhan affair Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:18:55 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: <9ZCAVD.A.T1D.UOjEEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66911 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jed Rothwell" > As to the technical question, is this some form of cold fusion, > Kim suspects it might be and I gather so does McKubre. Storms > disagrees. He thinks there is no connection between the > Taleyarkhan effect and cold fusion. I cannot judge, but anyone > can see that it is "mostly" hot fusion. Hot fusion? Brian Ahern told me this: "I certainly do not believe the thermally based sonofusion claims because I understand a term called (thermal diffusivity). It is physically impossible to generate the temperatures that people calculate [for the necessary time interval] because they neglect this aspect of heat transfer. The shock wave densification may have some merit, but thermal solutions are non-sensical." I agree with Brian that purely thermal solutions based on 3-space mathematics (and clocking) are non-sensical - and that there is MORE going on in sonofusion than a thermal (i.e. Lawson criteria) thing, while at the same time - this is not cold fusion either. Yet, there is a possible resolution based on time-dimensionality. Once again - we should not fall into the logical trap of "either/or" - even if we must resort to a whole new category of fusion - and yes - there are many who have been suggesting for a long time that we have this third category, which includes the so-called "warm fusion". Even then - that may not be enough categories as there are experiments on the fringe between warm and hot. The Farnsworth Fusor fits in there. Almost everyone thinks of it as "hot," not warm, yet it is operating at an order of magnitude lower in temperature than the textbook "threshold" for hot fusion. And so-called warm fusion may be two orders of magnitude lower yet, depending on how "close" you think you can make an accurate temperature measurement. Boltzmann's "tail" is one resolution to these quandaries of classification - but another unappreciated and simpler resolution to them is "time". That is, "time" in the sense of an extra dimensions of time, existing at very tiny focal dimensions, so that in effect we find that when a very high but fleeting temperature gain, which is caused by "shock wave densification" appears to have a longer effective confinement duration then it should if a "clock" in 3-space were doing the timing. IOW in these situations, time seems to "stand still" Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 18:24:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2B2OS6G018273; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:24:29 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2B2ORXY018256; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:24:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:24:27 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:19:12 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: My take on the Taleyarkhan affair In-reply-to: <7.0.1.0.2.20060310193349.03535200@mindspring.com> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: <_8ZkLD.A.IdE.bTjEEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66912 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed Rothwell wrote: > Perhaps, as Schwinger predicted, this will be the > death of science. Science is at a low point, and > no one can say when, or if, it will recover. But > I expect it will. Valuable, vital institutions > seldom collapse completely. Usually after they > reach an dysfunctional extreme, a crisis occurs, > and then the problems are fixed. > Sometimes new institutions will emerge, because the existing institutions simply can't undergo the needed reforms without collapsing. Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 18:29:01 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2B2SWjk021009; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:28:32 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2B2SSTu020972; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:28:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:28:28 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:28:20 -0500 Message-Id: <8C812CA98F225D0-EE8-12A5@mblkn-m08.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060310193349.03535200@mindspring.com> <00ac01c644b2$25fddf20$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <00ac01c644b2$25fddf20$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: My take on the Taleyarkhan affair Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.72 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2B2SPtk020925 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66913 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene Once again - we should not fall into the logical trap of "either/or" - even if we must resort to a whole new category of fusion - and yes - there are many who have been suggesting for a long time that we have this third category, which includes the so-called "warm fusion".  <><><><><><><> Speaking of 'warm' <><><><><><><> From: Terry Blanton Date: 2006/03/10 Fri PM 09:06:35 EST To: Subject: Sonofusion Greetings Bob, You might like to examine Dr. Putterman's involvement in the referenced issues before you pass judgement. Don't you think it's time you retired? History can be quite ascerbic. Warmest regards, Terry <><><><><><> Interesting thing is, Dr. Park always responds to my (crankpot) emails. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 01:13:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2B9D6mm030995; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 01:13:06 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2B9CwXZ030924; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 01:12:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 01:12:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=g6O7f6lCyTRSSToDB9dBPtzjvaqkYDLG/ZtPiqwDdcXNBwJq4j6OmKCCk6so8onP; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006361191244450@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electroniumized Deuterons & Low Energy Deuteron Stripping Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 02:12:44 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94028109c72bf20bec8295149043fa615f3350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.233 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66914 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII For your low energy deuteron stripping question Jones. The P-e-P ----> D reaction is well known, but, if instead a heavier electronium (*e-) participates: P-(*e-)-P ----> (*D) Stripping: (*D) -----> P + (*n) Then: (*n) ----> (*e-) + P What happens to the D - D Fusion reactions when they change to D - (*D) or (*D) - (*D)? Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
For your low energy deuteron stripping question Jones. 
 
The P-e-P ----> D  reaction is well known, but, if instead a heavier electronium (*e-)
participates: 
 
P-(*e-)-P ----> (*D)
 
Stripping:  (*D) ----->  P +  (*n)
 
Then:   (*n) ----> (*e-) + P
 
What happens to the D - D Fusion reactions when they change to D - (*D)
or (*D)  - (*D)?
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 03:27:00 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BBQkno020525; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 03:26:46 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2BBQi2M020497; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 03:26:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 03:26:44 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <000a01c644fe$aa529a80$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> From: "Nick Palmer" To: References: <8C81293B792F45F-212C-A14D@mblkn-m14.sysops.aol.com> <007201c6449a$305d21a0$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <8C812B26FDA97A6-2768-4FCF@mblkn-m09.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: Another Magmo Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:26:35 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66915 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Terry Blanton wrote <> Did you notice the jump cut just before the person comes into the room and the camera pans around to the other side? Looks like an ideal opportunity to remove whatever was driving the shaft on the hidden side of the motor from view! Nick From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 04:30:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BCUAtt016391; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 04:30:10 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2BCU8eX016362; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 04:30:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 04:30:08 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20060308183358.01f18de8@localhost> References: <6.1.2.0.2.20060308183358.01f18de8@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <22CFAF8E-D033-4700-8650-CAF29D50D9C7@mtaonline.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Record Set for Hottest Temperature on Earth: 3.6 Billion Degrees Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 03:30:04 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66916 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mar 8, 2006, at 2:36 PM, Mitchell Swartz wrote: > > Record Set for Hottest Temperature on Earth: 3.6 Billion Degrees in > Lab > ==================================================== > "Scientists have produced superheated gas exceeding temperatures of > 2 billion degrees Kelvin, or 3.6 billion degrees > Fahrenheit. ...They don't know how they did it. The result may be due to establishing an efficient nuclear heat sampling regime that taps zero point energy from the nuclei. See: http://mtaonline.net/~hheffner/HeisenbergTraps.pdf especially Table 1 on page 5. Eliminating tungsten increases the mean velocity of the remaining iron atoms, and reduces the number of atoms not completely stripped of electrons. It also increases the nuclear heat, for the W atoms replaced, from 5.5 billion deg. K to 12.2 billion deg. K. Increasing the wire thickness increases the current density and charge density in the pinch, thus making for a much better nuclear sampling sampling rate, i.e. rate of electron interactions with Fe nuclei that remove nuclear heat. The effects are exponential, because the hot electrons resulting from one sampling are even better at sampling the next nucleus encountered. Replacing the large cross section W in the plasma, having a nuclear temperature of 5.5 billion deg. K (.47 MeV) with C at (33.96 MeV) replaces a ZPE energy trap (with respect to iron), with a ZPE energizer. All the above synergies work in a combined way to produce surprising results. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 05:14:03 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BDDso4007942; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:13:54 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2BDDqlr007900; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:13:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:13:52 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060310181723.035cbb50@mindspring.com> References: <005d01c64463$66d0f860$6401a8c0@NuDell> <7.0.1.0.2.20060310160457.03471b68@mindspring.com> <004201c64494$f3b7dec0$6401a8c0@NuDell> <7.0.1.0.2.20060310181723.035cbb50@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <006BD0E7-D593-44DA-B0A1-DE3EB7576C81@mtaonline.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Hydrogen from electrolysis versus gasoline Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 04:13:49 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66917 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mar 10, 2006, at 2:36 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > Jones Beene wrote: > [snip] >> IOW the GE figure of $3 is apparently a wholesale price to the >> dealer (comparable to the gasoline wholesale price which is now ~ >> $1.75). When you use 'just' the energy-cost of $3.39, you are not >> comparing apples to apples. > > Well, $0.06/kWh is the wholesale price of electricity. Actually, it > is the high-end non-PTC cost for wind turbine electricity. Often > the cost is closer to four cents, which would bring the cost of > hydrogen down to $2.26 equivalent, which is cheaper than regular > gasoline in Atlanta today. Based on this, I suppose that in North > Dakota you could install wind turbines and start generating > hydrogen for ICE engines economically. The solution to accounting for the high unit cost of energy used may lie in the fact the source of energy for the electrolysis is a nuclear. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 06:25:33 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BEPArD012862; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 06:25:14 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2BEP7ic012833; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 06:25:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 06:25:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <001401c64517$917adb30$9f037841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: Marketplace of ideas Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 08:24:54 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C644E5.465E69F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2005-06-05) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.5 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66918 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C644E5.465E69F0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0011_01C644E5.465E69F0" ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C644E5.465E69F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankHowdy Vorts, Man's insatiable quest for achievement and stature can convolute science = and technology already shot with genius and quackery. Taleyarkhan can be = likened to Shakespeare's writing " loved not wisely, but well." Back in WW2, the GI GMC 6x6 2 1/2 ton truck was credited by Patton as = the single piece of equipment responsible for victory. The GMC 6 = cylinder was a superb engine. A knockoff of the GMC truck was also made = by Studebaker but used a Studebaker 6 cylinder flathead auto engine ( = the worse engine ever built). Most of the Studebaker trucks were shipped = to Russia. After the war, Hungary, under Russian control, built a = knockoff of the Studebaker engine. I later met a Hungarian engineer = that had worked in the knockoff engine plant in Budapest.He couldn't = believe the US could produce both the best and the worse engine at the = same time. I explained .. "that's what we do best". This simple fact escapes the = world. It escaped Kruschev while walking in an Iowa cornfield looking at = stalks above his head. Recently , it escaped a Korean company that built = a knockoff of a gas induction unit made by a US firm now owned by = Siemens. The worse and most expensive unit on the market. We had to = laugh when they came to us describing their " superior technology". See, = we build the best and we were looking down their throat. Throw rocks at Putterman and Taleyarkhan but at least they don't build = knockoffs. In the marketplace of ideas, the free thinker can enter without money. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C644E5.465E69F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Howdy Vorts,
 
Man's insatiable quest for achievement and stature can convolute = science=20 and technology already shot with genius and quackery. Taleyarkhan can be = likened=20 to Shakespeare's writing " loved not wisely, but well."
 
Back in WW2, the GI GMC 6x6 2 1/2 ton truck was credited by Patton = as the=20 single piece of equipment responsible for victory. The GMC 6 = cylinder was a=20 superb engine. A knockoff of the GMC truck was also made by = Studebaker=20 but used a Studebaker 6 cylinder flathead auto engine ( the worse engine = ever=20 built). Most of the Studebaker trucks were shipped to Russia. After the = war,=20 Hungary, under Russian control, built a knockoff of the Studebaker = engine. I=20 later met a Hungarian engineer  that had worked in the knockoff = engine=20 plant in Budapest.He couldn't believe the US could produce both the best = and the=20 worse engine at the same time.
 
I explained .. "that's what we do best". This simple fact escapes = the=20 world. It escaped Kruschev while walking in an Iowa cornfield looking at = stalks=20 above his head. Recently , it escaped a Korean company that built a = knockoff of=20 a gas induction unit made by a US firm now owned by Siemens. The worse = and most=20 expensive unit on the market. We had to laugh when they came to us = describing=20 their " superior technology". See, we build the best and we were looking = down=20 their throat.
 
 Throw rocks at Putterman and Taleyarkhan but at = least they=20 don't build knockoffs.
 
In the marketplace of ideas, the free thinker can enter without=20 money.
 
Richard

 

------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C644E5.465E69F0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C644E5.465E69F0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000f01c64517$90d2b450$9f037841@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C644E5.465E69F0-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 07:23:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BFMjkW009897; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 07:22:45 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2BFMgrO009869; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 07:22:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 07:22:42 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:22:37 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C81336C3437D34-22EC-3BAB@mblkn-m07.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Metal-Organic Framework Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.71 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2BFMexV009845 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66919 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: MOFs used for hydrogen storage: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/11761455/ >What's more, only minute amounts of MOFs are needed. "A pinch of a MOF," the NSF added, "has roughly the surface area of a football field." ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 07:44:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BFiPx8020720; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 07:44:26 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2BFiNgr020699; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 07:44:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 07:44:23 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <002901c64522$a9dc9cd0$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex-l" References: <410-22006361191244450@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Electroniumized Deuterons & Low Energy Deuteron Stripping Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 07:44:19 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66920 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred, there are many unexplored possibilities assuming the existence of a useful level of electronium (*e) in nature. But let me digress a bit with an excursion into the twilight zone of quantum mechanics. In an ultimate irony - and in an ultimate affront to high priests of the status-quo, the following line of logic is actually very close to mainstream physics. If we assume the ubiquitous existence of a "quantum foam" of virtual Ps, which is the mainstream physics viewpoint (proving that the mainstream is not that stogy on rare occasion) and then build-up on this predominant view, it gives us the foothold to state with more certainty that (at the very least) a *transitory form* of electronium (*e) is always a real possibility in nature, since the quantum foam and the electron cloud will always share a common interface at angstrom dimensions. >From that stage, all we need to do to demonstrate, and to effectively prove the existence of a useful level of electronium (*e) is to show evidence from real and unrelated experiments that the Ps- (negative ion) is *longer-lived* then the Ps itself. I believe that there is indeed evidence for this claim in the current literature, some of which you have mentioned in past postings. This transitory version of the particle would be relevant even IF a very long lived version of electronium (*e) is also a part of nature. Having established the existence of a useful natural level of electronium (*e) with a lifetime long enough to catalyze either stripping or low energy fusion - then we seem to be a giant step ahead of having to work down from only a raw presumption that (*e) also exists in a permanent long lived state. I believe that it does, but that it is such a low percentage of the normal electron population, that it will hard to prove working form the top down. Whereas working from the bottom up, it is much easier to gain a foothold. IOW even if there is some stable (*e) undetected - we can work around the lack of proof and show that it must be there in a transitory state. When mainstream physics permits the introduction of virtual particles - then they cannot suddenly close the door and say - "no, we only allow the virtual particles that we invent" I would also suggest that this view is not that far off from that of Horace's two-electron concept, and it actually makes sense that even if two electrons could join-up independently of electronium (*e) ab initio ... because even then, at some point in their lifetime of interaction with the quantum foam at the angstrom level - the increase in charge-density, acting on the quantum foam, would capture the positron. Sorry for the digression into the twilight zone - but I'm still trying to figure out what happened last night on the West Coast. I was awakened by what seemed like thunder lasting for 20 seconds in an area where thunder is rarer than earthquakes - a once per ten year rarity ... making me head for the door (living on the San Andreas fault)... but there was no shaking... except in my creaky brain which is still in a semi-panic state. Jones ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 1:12 AM Subject: Re: Electroniumized Deuterons & Low Energy Deuteron Stripping For your low energy deuteron stripping question Jones. The P-e-P ----> D reaction is well known, but, if instead a heavier electronium (*e-) participates: P-(*e-)-P ----> (*D) Stripping: (*D) -----> P + (*n) Then: (*n) ----> (*e-) + P What happens to the D - D Fusion reactions when they change to D - (*D) or (*D) - (*D)? Fred From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 08:38:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BGCNXt007458; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 08:12:23 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2BGCJpp007409; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 08:12:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 08:12:19 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:12:14 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8133DB215B476-22EC-3CDC@mblkn-m07.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <410-22006361191244450@earthlink.net> <002901c64522$a9dc9cd0$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <002901c64522$a9dc9cd0$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Electroniumized Deuterons & Low Energy Deuteron Stripping Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.71 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2BGCGF6007349 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66921 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene Sorry for the digression into the twilight zone - but I'm still trying to figure out what happened last night on the West Coast. I was awakened by what seemed like thunder lasting for 20 seconds in an area where thunder is rarer than earthquakes - a once per ten year rarity ... making me head for the door (living on the San Andreas fault)... but there was no shaking... except in my creaky brain which is still in a semi-panic state.  <><><><><><> DON'T PANIC It was merely Aurora's PDE on it's return flight to Groom Lake after getting the latest MASINT on Iran: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/pdwe.html We'll speak to the pilot since he was clearly a bit out of the envelope on approach. -Lazar ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 08:47:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BGkuS3030996; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 08:46:56 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2BGkrYV030968; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 08:46:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 08:46:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:46:47 -0500 Message-Id: <8C81342854670F1-212C-B589@mblkn-m14.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <410-22006361191244450@earthlink.net> <002901c64522$a9dc9cd0$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C8133DB215B476-22EC-3CDC@mblkn-m07.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <8C8133DB215B476-22EC-3CDC@mblkn-m07.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Electroniumized Deuterons & Low Energy Deuteron Stripping Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.132 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2BGko71030904 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66922 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: hohlrauml6d   It was merely Aurora's PDE on it's return flight to Groom Lake after getting the latest MASINT on Iran:    http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/pdwe.html  <><><><><><><> Siriusly: http://www.pratt-whitney.com/shock-system/pugetsoundbizjournal.html "In Atlanta, Georgia Institute of Technology aerospace engineering professor Ben Zinn said it will be "tremendously noisy," which he believes will make it difficult to ever commercialize." Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 08:55:35 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BGtHuC006000; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 08:55:18 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2BGtFbx005973; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 08:55:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 08:55:15 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <005301c6452c$905365a0$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <410-22006361191244450@earthlink.net> <002901c64522$a9dc9cd0$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C8133DB215B476-22EC-3CDC@mblkn-m07.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: Electroniumized Deuterons & Low Energy Deuteron Stripping Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 08:55:11 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66923 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ha ! I know you meant this as somewhat of a joke, Bob - but ... it may not be that far off. I would say that the frequency of it was around 100 Hz and very constant - unlike anything in nature and no Doppler. Because of McClellan AFB (which would have been the destination) we do get the occasional sonic boom here, as the ocean lets it reverberate for quite some distance - and they are prohibited from going supersonic over land - but even 50 klics offshore it can be very loud when conditions are right. Harry ... what did you say the frequency of the Aurora pulse-jet is? > <><><><><><> > > DON'T PANIC > > It was merely Aurora's PDE on it's return flight to Groom Lake > after getting the latest MASINT on Iran: > > http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/pdwe.html > > We'll speak to the pilot since he was clearly a bit out of the > envelope on approach. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 09:10:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BHAdX6014595; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:10:40 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2BHAbr9014571; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:10:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:10:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 12:10:30 -0500 Message-Id: <8C81345D5EE3195-212C-B65C@mblkn-m14.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <410-22006361191244450@earthlink.net> <002901c64522$a9dc9cd0$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C8133DB215B476-22EC-3CDC@mblkn-m07.sysops.aol.com> <005301c6452c$905365a0$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <005301c6452c$905365a0$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Electroniumized Deuterons & Low Energy Deuteron Stripping Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.132 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2BHAZOW014542 Resent-Message-ID: <6R9hNC.A.jjD.NSwEEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66924 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene Ha ! I know you meant this as somewhat of a joke, Bob - but ... it may not be that far off.  <><><><><><><> "Many a truth . . ." The parking lot in Palmdale is well populated. http://www.geocities.com/terry1094/skunkworks.jpg ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 09:14:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BHDpE8016603; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:13:51 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2BHDnZj016576; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:13:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:13:49 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=QrQOwLaD+QVIEFPlTgwCKpFsjZ63730c+5QLZJjy7Wufh9l7q4PsLGEVqc4akFb7; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063611171338226@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Hydrogen from biomass versus gasoline Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:13:38 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9407a7b10c0a00392454340251feb62c004350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.88 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66925 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Dry ash-free non-woody ligno-cellulosic biomass such as leaves, grasses, straws, and cornstalks, about 40% carbon by weight, have an empirical formula C6H10O5 for the cellulose structural portion plus CxHy for the lignin.(cellulose glue or cement) portion). Nature's "reinforced fiber" Acid or Enzyme Hydrolysis (catalytically adding H2O to the cellulose molecule) turns it to glucose (C6H12O6). Anerobic Bacteria, under carefully controlled conditions, can slowly turn the glucose to Hydrogen, or methane, acetone, ethanol and so on. In the digestive tank of cattle (and other ruminants), bacteria break the enzyme-hydrolyzed cellulose (glucose) down to acetic, propionic, and butyric acids (but extraction for energy use is a problem). Bacteria do a great job of processing biomass to please the palate and olfactory receptors (except for limburger cheese) but are too slow for high throughput biomass-feedstock fuel production. OTOH, as can be seen when starch C6H10O5 (same formula as cellulose) is heated to about 500 F it gives off a mix of H2O, CO, CO2, H2, CH4 and C2Hx etc. (actually exothermally) leaving a carbon residue (char). In the years since the early 1970s Oil Embargo many thermochemical and hydrothermal-chemical biomass conversion technologies have been developed and proven viable. Unfortunately most of the patents on the ones with investor-venture capital pull have expired after at least two new generations of Chemical Engineers since the Oil Embargo. OPEC and Big Oil are patient. Anyhow a ton of biomass costing $30.00 to harvest , transport and process at 50 % overall energy efficiency (a ton of biomass produced from the energy of a 2nd ton of biomass) can be thermochemically converted to a 60 gallon gasoline equivalent Hydrogen or Methane stream. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Dry ash-free non-woody ligno-cellulosic biomass such as leaves,
grasses, straws, and cornstalks, about 40% carbon by weight, have an empirical formula
C6H10O5 for the cellulose structural portion plus CxHy for the
lignin.(cellulose glue or cement) portion).
Nature's "reinforced fiber"
 
Acid or Enzyme Hydrolysis (catalytically adding H2O to the cellulose molecule) turns it to
glucose (C6H12O6).
 
Anerobic Bacteria, under carefully controlled conditions, can slowly turn the glucose to Hydrogen,
or methane, acetone, ethanol and so on.
In the digestive tank of cattle (and other ruminants), bacteria break the enzyme-hydrolyzed cellulose
(glucose) down to acetic, propionic, and butyric acids (but extraction for energy use is a problem).
Bacteria do a great job of processing biomass to please the palate and olfactory receptors (except for limburger cheese)
but are too slow for high throughput biomass-feedstock fuel production.
 
OTOH, as can be seen when starch C6H10O5 (same formula as cellulose) is heated to about 500 F
it gives off  a mix of H2O, CO, CO2, H2, CH4 and C2Hx etc. (actually exothermally)
leaving a carbon residue (char).
In the years since the early 1970s Oil Embargo many thermochemical and hydrothermal-chemical
biomass conversion technologies have been developed and proven viable.
Unfortunately most of the patents on the ones with investor-venture capital pull have expired
after at least two new generations of Chemical Engineers since the Oil Embargo.
 
OPEC and Big Oil are patient.
 
Anyhow a ton of biomass costing $30.00  to harvest , transport and process
at 50 % overall energy efficiency  (a ton of biomass produced from the energy of a 2nd ton of
biomass) can be thermochemically converted to a 60 gallon gasoline equivalent Hydrogen or
Methane stream.
 
Fred
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 09:25:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BHOu0A024264; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:24:57 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2BHOsPl024244; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:24:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:24:54 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <441307DB.6070209@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:24:43 -0700 From: Edmund Storms Organization: Energy K. Systems User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: My take on the Taleyarkhan affair References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060310193349.03535200@mindspring.com> In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060310193349.03535200@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <0ewMJB.A.w6F.mfwEEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66926 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: skip > > Ed Storms was baffled by the brouhaha in the press. He said: "Naturally > the detected amounts are wrong because the measurements are not > sensitive enough to see the expected ratio. What is the advantage to > anyone to mix these two phenomenon?" As I said, the advantage is that > you crush the opposition by associating them with cold fusion. But > Storms, in an uncharacteristically naïve moment, said he does not > understand why anyone would attack research in the newspapers in the > first place. "This situation makes no sense." If these other researchers > feel there is a problem with the experiment, they should discuss it by > e-mail, or publish papers showing an error. > > Here is my take on the situation: > > Think Zeitgeist. This is the kind of age we live in. This is what > science has come to. When people publish experimental results that > contradict theory, instead of debating the issues according to logic and > textbook knowledge, academic rivals spread false rumors, they threaten > lawsuits, they meddle, and they conduct witch hunt investigations to > derail the research and destroy careers. It worked with cold fusion, so > now they do it every time something new comes along. > > Taleyarkhan is being investigated for "academic misconduct" because a > theoretician thinks the experiment contradicts theory. It is now > officially "misconduct" to do experiments that challenge textbook > theory. Theoreticians have appointed themselves the high priests of > science, and an experimentalist who does anything to upset them is not > merely mistaken or foolish, as they said back in 1989. Now he is > unethical, and he must be "investigated" and crushed. > > Perhaps, as Schwinger predicted, this will be the death of science. > Science is at a low point, and no one can say when, or if, it will > recover. But I expect it will. Valuable, vital institutions seldom > collapse completely. Usually after they reach an dysfunctional extreme, > a crisis occurs, and then the problems are fixed. I still think something is odd about the approach taken by the press to bubble fusion. All fields of science have internal conflict and questions about the data. These issues are routinely resolved in the pages of scientific journals and in discussion between scientists. The press does not get involved and the general public never knows or cares about the issues. In recent times, the press has taken notice of emotional scientific issues such as stem cell research and global warming. General interest in these issues is understandable. However, why would bubble fusion get press attention and be of interest to anyone except the few people working on the subject? That is what seems strange to me. In addition, why would an important university such as Purdue risk its reputation for academic freedom by initiating a formal investigation of a minor conflict between professors? Rejection of cold fusion made sense because the phenomenon has the potential to disrupt science as well as industry. Bubble fusion has neither possibility. Of course, Jed might be right. Everyone is slowly being infected by irrationally by the examples we see in the world in general. Ed > > - Jed > > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 09:25:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BHPRpc024571; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:25:32 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2BHPQ5x024541; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:25:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:25:26 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060311172523770.BC2CC1C00082@mwinf3007.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060311172525.009e9004@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:25:25 +0000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Electroniumized Deuterons & Low Energy Deuteron Stripping Resent-Message-ID: <6KnFa.A.V_F.GgwEEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66927 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:44 am 11/03/2006 -0800, Beene wrote: [snip] > Sorry for the digression into the twilight zone - but I'm still > trying to figure out what happened last night on the West Coast. I > was awakened by what seemed like thunder lasting for 20 seconds in > an area where thunder is rarer than earthquakes - a once per ten > year rarity ... making me head for the door (living on the San > Andreas fault)... but there was no shaking... except in my creaky > brain which is still in a semi-panic state. > > Jones It's a precursor warning from the heavens, Jones. 8-) From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 09:40:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BHdxa7001055; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:40:00 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2BHdrFX001003; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:39:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:39:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <006d01c64532$cb241a20$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Subject: Wow... 2good-2b-true Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:39:47 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: <_WH0I.A.jP.otwEEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66928 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sterling has picked up on a "hot" little number today http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Resonant_Nuclear_Reactor "Resonant Nuclear Reactor - Stimulates U-238 by the use of a resonant electrical circuit. The secondary circuit has a very high "Q" factor and is used only for stimulating the nuclear reaction. The primary circuit is used to tap useful power from the system. " "In this case (far from optimal), there is 12.5g of fuel present, and the output power is about 11.2 watts. The secondary circuit is somewhat mis-tuned to prevent a runaway reaction" IF this were accurate (doubtful) and given the average house requires about 2kw continuous electrical power on average (over 24 hours) then only 2-3 kg of natural U, mas o menos, would power the house, presumably for a long time. Half life is in the multi-billion year range. You would need batteries to store the night-time production - but hey all that lead in the batteries, judiciously placed, provides the necessary shielding. Plus you bury it under your garage. Lets say they are off by an order of magnitude, and you really need 25 kg. How much will that cost? Well first off, If you live in a brick house... brick being made from shale and shale having a high natural U content - then you probably already have that 25 kg - but somewhat more widely dispersed than necessary but more importantly "legal" ... and this gives you some idea of what electricity too cheap to meter is all about. Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 09:49:53 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BHnQJM008310; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:49:31 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2BHnMOc008282; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:49:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:49:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 12:49:16 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8134B403F19FD-21D4-5FE6@mblkn-m19.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <2.2.32.20060311172525.009e9004@pop.freeserve.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.20060311172525.009e9004@pop.freeserve.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Resturant at the End of the Universe (Was: Electroniumized Deuterons . . .) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.137 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66929 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Grimer It's a precursor warning from the heavens, Jones. 8-) <><><><><><><> As is this (?): http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap060227.html Of course, something like a universe swallowing event could not really be imagined before we imagined the Beta-atmosphere. Now, it's easy for me to conceive how the bubble that is matter could be burst by a catastrophic catalytic event. "Et caelum recessit sicut liber involutus et omnis mons et insulae de locis suis motae sunt" or as the good King translated: "And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places." ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 09:54:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BHrtT0011662; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:53:59 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2BHrrj1011631; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:53:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:53:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 12:53:46 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8134BE0F5F143-21D4-5FFC@mblkn-m19.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <006d01c64532$cb241a20$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <006d01c64532$cb241a20$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Wow... 2good-2b-true Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.137 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2BHrniT011585 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66930 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene Lets say they are off by an order of magnitude, and you really need 25 kg. How much will that cost?  <><><><><><> KEWL! Well, I'll sell it for about $300 per lb: http://unitednuclear.com/super.htm but, I bet you can beat that price. -Lazar ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 09:55:50 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BHtH7u012716; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:55:17 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2BHtELl012694; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:55:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:55:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: My take on the Taleyarkhan affair Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 13:03:22 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <441307DB.6070209@ix.netcom.com> Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66931 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Ed, I think you need to look at it from the university position. There have been some high profile cases of fraud in the sciences, perhaps the most press being devoted to the South Korean cloning scientist but I could name several more if you like. Academia is no different than the corporate world, in fact the two are quickly converging into one monolithic system. So given the history of the energy field, and the high profile fraud cases, can you understand why they might proceed to investigate? There is nothing irrational about this, given that both prestige and money are in play. Let me turn the question around and ask you, what sort of due dilligence do you perform before you engage in a business venture? Do you independently verify the backgrounds of the business people and investors involved? Do you look at SEC filings and related financial information? It's been my experience that the reason frauds are so prevalent is that people greatly prefer the fraud to the honest man. They will fight tooth and nail to _not_ do the things I am suggesting above, in order that the promises made by the frauds remain "real". I do not know if Taleyarkhans experiments were successful, but given that we have seen reproduction of the basic effect here on Vo. some years ago ( Knuke... ) I suspect they might be. K. -----Original Message----- From: Edmund Storms [mailto:storms2@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 12:25 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: My take on the Taleyarkhan affair skip > > Ed Storms was baffled by the brouhaha in the press. He said: "Naturally > the detected amounts are wrong because the measurements are not > sensitive enough to see the expected ratio. What is the advantage to > anyone to mix these two phenomenon?" As I said, the advantage is that > you crush the opposition by associating them with cold fusion. But > Storms, in an uncharacteristically naïve moment, said he does not > understand why anyone would attack research in the newspapers in the > first place. "This situation makes no sense." If these other researchers > feel there is a problem with the experiment, they should discuss it by > e-mail, or publish papers showing an error. > > Here is my take on the situation: > > Think Zeitgeist. This is the kind of age we live in. This is what > science has come to. When people publish experimental results that > contradict theory, instead of debating the issues according to logic and > textbook knowledge, academic rivals spread false rumors, they threaten > lawsuits, they meddle, and they conduct witch hunt investigations to > derail the research and destroy careers. It worked with cold fusion, so > now they do it every time something new comes along. > > Taleyarkhan is being investigated for "academic misconduct" because a > theoretician thinks the experiment contradicts theory. It is now > officially "misconduct" to do experiments that challenge textbook > theory. Theoreticians have appointed themselves the high priests of > science, and an experimentalist who does anything to upset them is not > merely mistaken or foolish, as they said back in 1989. Now he is > unethical, and he must be "investigated" and crushed. > > Perhaps, as Schwinger predicted, this will be the death of science. > Science is at a low point, and no one can say when, or if, it will > recover. But I expect it will. Valuable, vital institutions seldom > collapse completely. Usually after they reach an dysfunctional extreme, > a crisis occurs, and then the problems are fixed. I still think something is odd about the approach taken by the press to bubble fusion. All fields of science have internal conflict and questions about the data. These issues are routinely resolved in the pages of scientific journals and in discussion between scientists. The press does not get involved and the general public never knows or cares about the issues. In recent times, the press has taken notice of emotional scientific issues such as stem cell research and global warming. General interest in these issues is understandable. However, why would bubble fusion get press attention and be of interest to anyone except the few people working on the subject? That is what seems strange to me. In addition, why would an important university such as Purdue risk its reputation for academic freedom by initiating a formal investigation of a minor conflict between professors? Rejection of cold fusion made sense because the phenomenon has the potential to disrupt science as well as industry. Bubble fusion has neither possibility. Of course, Jed might be right. Everyone is slowly being infected by irrationally by the examples we see in the world in general. Ed > > - Jed > > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 09:56:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BHu1YF013405; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:56:02 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2BHtwZp013340; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:55:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:55:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 12:55:52 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8134C2C24FB49-21D4-6007@mblkn-m19.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <2.2.32.20060311172525.009e9004@pop.freeserve.net> <8C8134B403F19FD-21D4-5FE6@mblkn-m19.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <8C8134B403F19FD-21D4-5FE6@mblkn-m19.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Restaurant at the End of the Universe Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.137 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <3eKzUC.A.NQD.t8wEEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66932 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: hohlrauml6d <><><><><><><> Title correction. Sorry, I was using the lysdexic dictionary. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 10:06:50 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BI6Iwg019584; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:06:19 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2BI6FOh019527; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:06:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:06:15 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <007e01c64536$7b343f50$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <2.2.32.20060311172525.009e9004@pop.freeserve.net> <8C8134B403F19FD-21D4-5FE6@mblkn-m19.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Doppelganger at the End of the Universe Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:06:11 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: <5YLlY.A.BxE.WGxEEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66933 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Looks like Lazard and Tuttle are hogging-up all the Vo bandwidth today, but before I sign-off of cyber-space - one further comment on "missed opportunities" which seems to be my weekend theme-song. <><><><><><><> > As is this: > > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap060227.html "The oddball GRB is visible in the center of the right image. Subsequent observations found a redshift for the transient of z=0.033, showing it to be only about 440 million light years away" Yeah. OK. heard about that last week... ... but look closely at image two. Did they miss another transient in the very lower right hand corner?? From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 10:25:55 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BIPTXs032015; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:25:39 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2BIHpU3027951; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:17:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:17:51 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060311181744485.0BD5C1C0008B@mwinf3008.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060311181745.009d92ec@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:17:45 +0000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Metal-Organic Framework Resent-Message-ID: <8txBO.A.Y0G.NRxEEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66935 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:22 am 11/03/2006 -0500, Terry wrote: >MOFs used for hydrogen storage: > >http://msnbc.msn.com/id/11761455/ > >>What's more, only minute amounts of MOFs are needed. "A pinch of a >MOF," the NSF added, "has roughly the surface area of a football field." Wunderbar - One slight snag though. 8-( "The high storage densities are so far possible only at -321 degrees Fahrenheit." From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 10:26:03 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BIPTXu032015; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:25:56 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2BII6vu028110; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:18:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:18:06 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060311181746326.4FB3C1C0008B@mwinf3008.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060311181748.009f59e0@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:17:48 +0000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: My take on the Taleyarkhan affair Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66937 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:24 am 11/03/2006 -0700, Ed wrote: Jed wrote, >> Here is my take on the situation: >> >> Think Zeitgeist. This is the kind of age we live in. This is what >> science has come to. When people publish experimental results that >> contradict theory, instead of debating the issues according to logic and >> textbook knowledge, academic rivals spread false rumors, they threaten >> lawsuits, they meddle, and they conduct witch hunt investigations to >> derail the research and destroy careers. But surely such behaviour is nothing new as Jed must know, since he has read Koestler's "The Sleepwalkers". Scientists are just as corrupt as anybody else. The idea that they are some kind of secular religious order pursuing truth is, and always has been, risible. [snip] >I still think something is odd about the approach taken by the press to >bubble fusion. All fields of science have internal conflict and >questions about the data. These issues are routinely resolved in the >pages of scientific journals and in discussion between scientists. The >press does not get involved and the general public never knows or cares >about the issues. In recent times, the press has taken notice of >emotional scientific issues such as stem cell research and global >warming. General interest in these issues is understandable. However, >why would bubble fusion get press attention and be of interest to anyone >except the few people working on the subject? >Ed Maybe they have vivid memories of all those bubbles in that film Chain Reaction (1996), eh! 8-) I append a review below for Vortexians who may not have seen it. ========================================================= This film is fast and exciting. The story is about a scientist working at a University lab. to make renewable energy out of water. Upon succeeding, the plant explodes but not before Reeves returns to find one of the top researchers suffocated. Upon investigation Reeves and Weiss are set up and the FBI are on their case. In seeking to find the truth, they uncover an undercover agency established by the Government that is so secret that top Officials at the White House are unaware of its activities, the FBI are unaware and the is no paperwork of its existence. This film really gets you hooked and makes you think about what does really go on in the world. [or not ;-) ] ========================================================= Frank From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 10:27:18 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BII5Es028122; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:18:06 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2BIHrXk027970; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:17:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:17:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060311181745191.2EADF1C0008B@mwinf3008.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060311181747.009f2cc8@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:17:47 +0000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Electroniumized Deuterons & Low Energy Deuteron Stripping Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2BIHloL027881 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66936 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:46 am 11/03/2006 -0500, you wrote: > > >-----Original Message----- >From: hohlrauml6d >  >It was merely Aurora's PDE on it's return flight to Groom Lake after >getting the latest MASINT on Iran:  >  >http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/pdwe.html  > ><><><><><><><> > >Siriusly: > >http://www.pratt-whitney.com/shock-system/pugetsoundbizjournal.html > >"In Atlanta, Georgia Institute of Technology aerospace engineering >professor Ben Zinn said it will be "tremendously noisy," which he >believes will make it difficult to ever commercialize." > >Terry How does this differ from the pulse engines that powered the V1's, one of which nearly de-parted me off from the happiest days of my life (allegedly)? Frank From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 10:33:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BIXFQu004716; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:33:15 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2BIXD6c004693; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:33:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:33:13 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060311183311313.4C9011C00083@mwinf3007.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060311183313.009eb774@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:33:13 +0000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Wow... 2good-2b-true Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66938 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:39 am 11/03/2006 -0800, you wrote: >Sterling has picked up on a "hot" little number today > >http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Resonant_Nuclear_Reactor > > > >"Resonant Nuclear Reactor - Stimulates U-238 by the use of a >resonant electrical circuit. The secondary circuit has a very high >"Q" factor and is used only for stimulating the nuclear reaction. >The primary circuit is used to tap useful power from the system. " > >"In this case (far from optimal), there is 12.5g of fuel present, >and the output power is about 11.2 watts. The secondary circuit is >somewhat mis-tuned to prevent a runaway reaction" > > > >IF this were accurate (doubtful)... It seems to be lighting a bulb. Why do you think it's doubtful? Do you think it's a scam and there's a battery hidden somewhere? Seems plausible to me - but then, like Dubya, my knowledge of things "nucular" is minimal. Frank From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 10:48:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BIloOt013595; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:47:50 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2BIlmJI013573; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:47:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:47:48 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <31584759.1142102867617.JavaMail.root@mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 13:47:47 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Jed Rothwell Reply-To: Jed Rothwell To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: My take on the Taleyarkhan affair Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66939 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Grimer writes: >But surely such behaviour is nothing new as Jed must know, since he has >read Koestler's "The Sleepwalkers". Scientists are just as corrupt as >anybody else. The idea that they are some kind of secular religious >order pursuing truth is, and always has been, risible. Quite right. It is nothing new, and some scientists have always been this way. But at this moment in history, bad behavior fashionable. It is particularly widespread, and it lauded and rewarded, instead of being punished. These things ebb and flow. I think the trend began with the rejection of cold fusion, which brought the worst in people. Plus, science has become centralized and micro-managed by Washington, which is a culture dominated by politics. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 10:49:24 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BInDlf014821; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:49:14 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2BInAvf014793; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:49:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:49:10 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00bc01c6453c$7a4da120$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <2.2.32.20060311183313.009eb774@pop.freeserve.net> Subject: Re: Wow... 2good-2b-true Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:49:06 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66940 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grimer" >>IF this were accurate (doubtful)... > It seems to be lighting a bulb. Why do you think it's doubtful? > Do you think it's a scam and there's a battery hidden somewhere? That is a possibility, but you do not even need that level of deception. If your throw the switch off and let the caps charge for several days (they will slowly charge) ... and then get the camera ready and flip the switch, you can probably get the bulb to stay lit long enough to get a convincing image. But as stated elsewhere, IF this were instead to be an accurate portrayal of the situation without the time-charge phenomena (doubtful) then it is conceivable that b-aether is somehow involved as this is NOT capturing alpha radiation (even the glass vial would block the alphas) and the gammas are too high in frequency to be rectified normally (not to mention in the microwatt category of energy) Think about this: one watt per gram on you desktop with no harmful radiation (hopefully) or maybe that is another reason that Paul Brown (RIP) is no longer with us. Anyway, the gigawatt reactor which we all know and love has a core of about 20,000 kg of enriched fuel. It took 500,000 kg of natural U to get that much enrichment. Now, ask yourself ... and/or Georgia Power, or one of the other Cons (Con-Ed) ... who's zooming who? Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 10:53:55 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BIrZcS018070; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:53:36 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2BIrY5m018051; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:53:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:53:34 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <6023685.1142103213115.JavaMail.root@mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 13:53:32 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Jed Rothwell Reply-To: Jed Rothwell To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: My take on the Taleyarkhan affair Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66941 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Philip Winestone writes: >"Everyone is slowly being infected by irrationally by the examples we see >in the world in general." > >That's the main point, and the media, having undertaken to be the >intellectual guardians and leaders of public morality and thinking, are >leading the pack. I do not get that impression. I communicate with reporters from time to time, and I do not think they are the main problem in science. They do not understand anything about it. They are merely reporting what the scientists themselves say, especially people like Robert Park and Prof. Kevles. People like Park make a living by destroying other people's reputations and lives, and by preventing research and progress. That's their job. Reporters are involved because scandal and ruined lives sells newspapers. They have no clue which side is technically correct, and they do not care at all that Nature and Park often lie. All they care about is selling news. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 11:13:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BJD63B028323; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:13:07 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2BJD3Pf028273; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:13:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:13:03 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=scGIXgyzmIPM54yNZTwwWOYhxPDsuUuAycJBrwq5cmVUODvYxOLOFJV9ZCP1KtBJ; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063611191247698@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electroniumized Deuterons & Low Energy Deuteron Stripping Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 12:12:47 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9409e5d9697c878eaad217379b8055a0e6b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.38 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66942 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones Beene wrote: > > Fred, there are many unexplored possibilities assuming the > existence of a useful level of electronium (*e) in nature. But let > me digress a bit with an excursion into the twilight zone of > quantum mechanics. Snip the foamy Dirac Sea. As usual even when someone agrees with you, you disagree ,Jones. :-) > > From that stage, all we need to do to demonstrate, and to > effectively prove the existence of a useful level of electronium > (*e) is to show evidence from real and unrelated experiments that > the Ps- (negative ion) is *longer-lived* then the Ps itself. > Prolific Low Energy Deuteron Stripping (LEDS) a few eV instead of 2.2 MeV was witnessed in the early "Columbus II" gas pinch experiments at Los Alamos and the Twisted Torus "Stellerator, Tokamaks, CTR etc. The mass 2 to 3 electron mass (*e-) Triad in the deuteron instead of a regular electron could explain this. > > I believe that there is indeed evidence for this claim in the > current literature, some of which you have mentioned in past > postings. > Good. > > This transitory version of the particle would be relevant even IF > a very long lived version of electronium (*e) is also a part of > nature. > Like the neutron it might have a more stable state when bound in a deuteron between the two (three quark triads) the Protons. > > Having established the existence of a useful natural level of > electronium (*e) with a lifetime long enough to catalyze either > stripping or low energy fusion - then we seem to be a giant step > ahead of having to work down from only a raw presumption that (*e) > also exists in a permanent long lived state. I believe that it > does, but that it is such a low percentage of the normal electron > population, that it will hard to prove working form the top down > Fine. Set up a LEDS experiment and see how the stripped neutrons decay (time and energy). Wild-Eyed Theories (WETs) don't mean squat if you can't come up with a supportive experiment. Whenever one gets a "warm feeling" about a (WET) it might be a bladder control problem, or worse. > > IOW even if there is some stable (*e) undetected - we can work > around the lack of proof and show that it must be there in a > transitory state. > Isn't the CF & PNL, ORNL's (undisclosed publicly) neutron Sonofusion Bubble experiments sufficient supporting evidence to justify the LEDS/Neutron Lifetime-Decay experiments? Fred > > Jones > > From: Frederick Sparber > To: vortex-l > Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 1:12 AM > Subject: Re: Electroniumized Deuterons & Low Energy Deuteron > Stripping > > The P-e-P ----> D reaction is well known, but, if instead a > heavier electronium (*e-) > participates: > > P-(*e-)-P ----> (*D) > > Stripping: (*D) -----> P + (*n) > > Then: (*n) ----> (*e-) + P > > What happens to the D - D Fusion reactions when they change to D - > (*D) > or (*D) - (*D)? > > Fred From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 11:13:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BJDV8w028612; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:13:32 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2BJDUOv028587; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:13:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:13:30 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 14:13:14 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C81356FAF6A54A-C70-26459@mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: My take on the Taleyarkhan affair Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: knagel@gis.net, vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.134 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66943 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Keith Nagel I do not know if Taleyarkhans experiments were successful, but given that we have seen reproduction of the basic effect here on Vo. some years ago ( Knuke... ) I suspect they might be. <><><><><><><> <><><><><><> Former Vort, Ross Tessien, predicts breakeven by 2010: http://www.impulsedevices.com/2005%20-%200816%20IDI%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf http://tinyurl.com/kpxed Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 11:59:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BJxbIC019199; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:59:42 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2BJxa4x019179; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:59:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 11:59:36 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060311120104.02a522b0@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 12:01:45 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: Science exposes Hot Fusion weaknesses: March 11, 2006 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66944 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Who has ever seen a major science journal expose the flaws of hot fusion in such a straightforward and raw manner? Is this as new as it appears to me? If you are interested, I'll send you the article. Steve From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 12:05:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BK4frW022800; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 12:04:42 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2BK4b6W022761; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 12:04:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 12:04:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wow... 2good-2b-true X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: ID = 8324edccdbae1c0007349b58b3c30403 Reply-To: michael.foster@excite.com From: "Michael Foster" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: michael.foster@excite.com X-Mailer: PHP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20060311200431.E02AA109ECE@xprdmailfe1.nwk.excite.com> Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 15:04:31 -0500 (EST) Resent-Message-ID: <3HsOBD.A.cjF.U1yEEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66945 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones wrote: > If your throw the switch off and let the caps charge for several > days (they will slowly charge) ... and then get the camera ready > and flip the switch, you can probably get the bulb to stay lit > long enough to get a convincing image. Despite my natural level of skepticism, I think there might be something to this, if it isn't just a total fraud. The circuits are set up as AC, so I don't see how the caps would charge. In any case, letting the thing charge up over time would be just as fraudulent, IMHO, as running a hidden wire under the base. After all, they are claiming continuous power. > But as stated elsewhere, IF this were instead to be an accurate > portrayal of the situation without the time-charge phenomena > (doubtful) then it is conceivable that b-aether is somehow > involved as this is NOT capturing alpha radiation (even the glass > vial would block the alphas) and the gammas are too high in > frequency to be rectified normally (not to mention in the > microwatt category of energy) All true, except that as I understand how this is supposed to work, the beta decay releases large amounts of energy as magnetic flux. The circuit is set up to make the the beta decay magnetic fields, which would normally be random, resonate with the LC circuit. Actual exposure of the coil to alpha or gamma radiation is therefore not required. Who knows, maybe it's not 2good-2b-true. Do you have any reason to believe these guys are not on the up-and-up? M. _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 12:46:50 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BKkKnC012957; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 12:46:20 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2BKkJSO012932; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 12:46:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 12:46:19 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00fa01c6454c$d6fddbf0$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: , References: <20060311200431.E02AA109ECE@xprdmailfe1.nwk.excite.com> Subject: Re: Wow... 2good-2b-true Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 12:46:14 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66946 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael, For the record, let me say that I am not suggesting fraud or anything like that - only that this seems most improbable - since the ouput is at the energy density of a fission reactor. > All true, except that as I understand how this is supposed to > work, > the beta decay releases large amounts of energy as magnetic > flux. But where is the beta emitter? The fuel in this one is natural uranium, an alpha emitter. There will be some "daughters" but the betas from them are 'de minimis'. > The circuit is set up to make the the beta decay magnetic > fields, > which would normally be random, resonate with the LC circuit. There should be only a little beta decay with 238U - so let's say instead that the intention of the new inventors (or their good fortune) is to get the secondary gammas (from the alpha radiation) to resonate the LC circuit at much higher intensity than they should, based on their won energy. As best I can tell on short notice, the EM-equivalent energy from the radioactive alpha decay of the one kg of un-stimulated uranium is less than 0.3 milliW. A billion years ago, it may have been half a mW. Even if the alphas were converted to gammas at 100% eff and then the gamma converted to electricity at 100% eff. the ouput of such a device should be is less than a microwatt per gram - so the watt per gram which is claimed can mean: 1) the "stimulation" increases the energy a million fold 2) it is a foolish inaccuracy or fraud 3) there is something else going on, along the lines of a trade secret >Do you have any reason to believe these guys are not on the >up-and-up? Not at all. In fact I am ever hopeful that 3) is correct. But what could that "something else" be? Paul Brown did not have it, or even know about it - I can guarantee you that much. And, most importantly, why would Paul essentially give up on this device a full seven years before his tragic death - if it were so promising?? He moved on to nuclear remediation. His US Patent # 4,835,433 for this "Apparatus for Direct Conversion of Radioactive Decay Energy to Electrical Energy" was sold and then has lapsed - so this is open territory it seems unless the company he licensed it to has made a major improvement. But why wouldn't they say so? It doesn't add up. Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 14:01:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BM1TPD015953; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 14:01:30 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2BM1QqB015915; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 14:01:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 14:01:26 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060311220119378.5C6F81C002E8@mwinf3003.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060311220121.009e071c@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:01:21 +0000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Resturant at the End of the Universe (Was: Electroniumized Deuterons . . .) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66947 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:49 pm 11/03/2006 -0500, you wrote: > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Grimer > >It's a precursor warning from the heavens, Jones. 8-) > ><><><><><><><> > >As is this (?): > >http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap060227.html > >Of course, something like a universe swallowing event could not really >be imagined before we imagined the Beta-atmosphere. Now, it's easy for >me to conceive how the bubble that is matter could be burst by a >catastrophic catalytic event. > >"Et caelum recessit sicut liber involutus et omnis mons et insulae de >locis suis motae sunt" > >or as the good King translated: > >"And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and >every mountain and island were moved out of their places." >___________________________________________________ If we are going to have a quote from the Apocalypse, let's have a Vortex sized portion so that we can really scare ourselves; especially since there is some talk of the Garabandal warning coming before or on this April 13th. 8-) =============================================================== 11 And white robes were given to every one of them one; and it was said to them, that they should rest for a little time, till their fellow servants, and their brethren, who are to be slain, even as they, should be filled up. 12 And I saw, when he had opened the sixth seal, and behold there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair: and the whole moon became as blood: 13 And the stars from heaven fell upon the earth, as the fig tree casteth its green figs when it is shaken by a great wind: 14 And the heaven departed as a book folded up: and every mountain, and the islands were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the princes, and tribunes, and the rich, and the strong, and every bondman, and every freeman, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of mountains: =============================================================== From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 14:04:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BM3rdA017151; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 14:03:54 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2BM3qGe017129; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 14:03:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 14:03:52 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060311140424.028f1370@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 14:06:11 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: Re: Re; A Seasoned Scientist on Controlled Fusion In-Reply-To: <410-22006349141117492@earthlink.net> References: <410-22006349141117492@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_1657006875==.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: <-Do4pB.A.iLE.Il0EEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66948 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=====================_1657006875==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Uh, Fred, we need to talk Maybe you already know what I want. ;) s At 06:11 AM 3/9/2006, you wrote: >I quote: > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >"I am not sure that I have ever mentioned it to you, but controlled fusion >has been a real problem with me for over 40 years. I was involved in some >of the first meetings where this crap was first promulgated. I told them >then that they were full of shit, because they had not the slightest notion >about how to achieve it. > >It is hugely important to understand the difference between science and >science fiction. A good scientific problem is one that is just slightly >outside of our "sphere of understanding" -- it's far enough out that success >expands our "sphere", but it's close enough in that you have a pretty good >idea about how to solve it. Science fiction is stuff that is so far outside >the sphere that you have no idea as to what the path to the solution might >be. > >These guys have now spent billions of dollars producing nothing and most >often clogging the literature with nonsense. > >I guess that you know that my field of research was surface physics. One of >the most amusing (but so sad) results of the fusion program was when the >Princeton folks found that radiation from their plasma was desorbing gas >from the walls of their vacuum chamber -- a problem that was easily >predictable, and was predicted. Overnight, they were throwing millions of >dollars at completely unqualified and inexperienced people who were trying >to do surface physics. Their work was nonsense, but it corrupted the >literature for years. > >These billions of dollars that have been spent have mostly caused good >people to waste their talent on bad problems." > >End quote. --=====================_1657006875==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Uh, Fred, we need to talk
Maybe you already know what I want.
;)


s

At 06:11 AM 3/9/2006, you wrote:
I quote:
 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"I am not sure that I have ever mentioned it to you, but controlled fusion
has been a real problem with me for over 40 years. I was involved in some
of the first meetings where this crap was first promulgated. I told them
then that they were full of shit, because they had not the slightest notion
about how to achieve it.
 
It is hugely important to understand the difference between science and
science fiction. A good scientific problem is one that is just slightly
outside of our "sphere of understanding" -- it's far enough out that success
expands our "sphere", but it's close enough in that you have a pretty good
idea about how to solve it. Science fiction is stuff that is so far outside
the sphere that you have no idea as to what the path to the solution might
be.
 
These guys have now spent billions of dollars producing nothing and most
often clogging the literature with nonsense.
 
I guess that you know that my field of research was surface physics. One of
the most amusing (but so sad) results of the fusion program was when the
Princeton folks found that radiation from their plasma was desorbing gas
from the walls of their vacuum chamber -- a problem that was easily
predictable, and was predicted. Overnight, they were throwing millions of
dollars at completely unqualified and inexperienced people who were trying
to do surface physics. Their work was nonsense, but it corrupted the
literature for years.
 
These billions of dollars that have been spent have mostly caused good
people to waste their talent on bad problems."
 
End quote.
--=====================_1657006875==.ALT-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 17:23:46 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C1Fhap020694; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:15:47 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2C1Fbib020604; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:15:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:15:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wow... 2good-2b-true Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:15:17 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <20060311200431.E02AA109ECE@xprdmailfe1.nwk.excite.com> <00fa01c6454c$d6fddbf0$6401a8c0@NuDell> In-Reply-To: <00fa01c6454c$d6fddbf0$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta03ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sun, 12 Mar 2006 01:15:16 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2C1FQgS020414 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66949 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Jones Beene's message of Sat, 11 Mar 2006 12:46:14 -0800: Hi, [snip] >> All true, except that as I understand how this is supposed to >> work, >> the beta decay releases large amounts of energy as magnetic >> flux. > >But where is the beta emitter? The fuel in this one is natural >uranium, an alpha emitter. There will be some "daughters" but the >betas from them are 'de minimis'. Michael's statement was I believe based upon the description of a nuclear battery designed to operate with a radionuclide that is a beta emitter. That doesn't necessarily imply that only beta emitters will work, only that they may have been considered to be more convenient. > >> The circuit is set up to make the the beta decay magnetic >> fields, >> which would normally be random, resonate with the LC circuit. > >There should be only a little beta decay with 238U - so let's say >instead that the intention of the new inventors (or their good >fortune) is to get the secondary gammas (from the alpha radiation) >to resonate the LC circuit at much higher intensity than they >should, based on their won energy. Consider the possibility that the alpha radiation will strip thousands of electrons from surrounding atoms in the solid. These free electrons may then resonate with the magnetic field. (Don't ask me what this means ;). > >As best I can tell on short notice, the EM-equivalent energy from >the radioactive alpha decay of the one kg of un-stimulated uranium >is less than 0.3 milliW. A billion years ago, it may have been >half a mW. Even if the alphas were converted to gammas at 100% eff >and then the gamma converted to electricity at 100% eff. the ouput >of such a device should be is less than a microwatt per gram - so >the watt per gram which is claimed can mean: > >1) the "stimulation" increases the energy a million fold >2) it is a foolish inaccuracy or fraud >3) there is something else going on, along the lines of a trade >secret The varying mag. field causes U235 to preces and relax which stimulates it to decay. U238 doesn't preces (it has no magnetic moment), so probably isn't affected. However all the daughters of the U235 decay also have magnetic moments, so these can also be stimulated to decay, all the way down to Pb207. This releases a total of about 46 MeV / U235, most of which is in alpha particles. Note that some of the lower decays will produce dangerous gammas, especially as these are encouraged to decay at an accelerated rate. > >>Do you have any reason to believe these guys are not on the >>up-and-up? > >Not at all. In fact I am ever hopeful that 3) is correct. But >what could that "something else" be? Paul Brown did not have it, >or even know about it - I can guarantee you that much. > >And, most importantly, why would Paul essentially give up on this >device a full seven years before his tragic death - if it were so >promising?? Because the radiation created is too dangerous for one to be in every household, which limit's it's use to nuclear power plants. Then the energy obtained from U235 is only 46 MeV (actually probably nearer to 20-40 MeV after losses), which is not much compared to the 200 MeV available from fission. > >He moved on to nuclear remediation. Which is a sensible approach to take, considering the above. The technique can still usefully be employed in remediating about half of normal nuclear waste, especially the (for humans) dangerous Cs135, Cs137 and I129 isotopes, which have nuclear magnetic moments, and hence are susceptible. This still leaves the question of what to do with the nuclear waste that has no magnetic moment. It would seem best to simply put this back into a reactor, and let it pick up a free neutron, converting it to an isotope with and odd mass number, i.e. one having a magnetic moment, such that it can be processed. The problem with this approach is separating the radioactive isotopes from those that have been neutralized. And this is I suspect, no small problem, since chemical separation would only be a partial solution. However if one is going to bury the waste anyway, then this is still a useful process to apply beforehand. It reduces the total amount of radioactive material present in the waste, produces enough energy to pay for the processing, and in particular it destroys the I129, Cs135 and Cs137, so that these are no longer present in the waste, and hence can't leak out at the burial site and contaminate ground water. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 18:03:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C23SAP012292; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:03:29 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2C23Q33012238; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:03:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:03:26 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 21:03:16 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8139042F1884C-EE8-2AA9@mblkn-m08.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <2.2.32.20060311181747.009f2cc8@pop.freeserve.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.20060311181747.009f2cc8@pop.freeserve.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Electroniumized Deuterons & Low Energy Deuteron Stripping Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.72 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66950 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Grimer How does this differ from the pulse engines that powered the V1's, one of which nearly de-parted me off from the happiest days of my life (allegedly)? <><><><><><> Good observation. From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse_detonation_engine "The main difference between a PDE and traditional pulsejet is the way in which the airflow and combustion in the engine is controlled. In the PDE the combustion process is supersonic, effectively an explosion instead of burning, and the shock wave of the combustion front inside the fuel serves the purpose of the shutters of a pulsejet. When the shock wave reaches the rear of the engine and exits the combustion products are ejected in "one go", the pressure inside the engine suddenly drops, and air is pulled in the front of the engine to start the next cycle. Some designs require valves to make this process work properly." Of course the V2, being a ballistic weapon, eliminated the anxiety of hearing the pulsejet approach. I doubt you even knew it was coming. -Lazar ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 18:09:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C29VSr017716; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:09:31 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2C29SXQ017672; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:09:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:09:28 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Wow... 2good-2b-true Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:09:22 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <20060311200431.E02AA109ECE@xprdmailfe1.nwk.excite.com> <00fa01c6454c$d6fddbf0$6401a8c0@NuDell> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta02ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sun, 12 Mar 2006 02:09:22 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2C29N4r017573 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66951 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Robin van Spaandonk's message of Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:15:17 +1100: Hi, [snip] BTW if you want to try this, you should be able to use the Am241 from a smoke detector. 1 micro-Curie of Am241 contains about 2400 J, which should light a 20 W bulb for about 2 minutes (less once losses are taken into account).(Which may be what is in the photo). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 18:22:43 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C2MOgm025333; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:22:24 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2C2MMDj025309; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:22:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:22:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=j279R98BvzLBVdOiNhFeZP8eMW5MZVN9BZXBtw6uHKJpkJluAlqSHjpJBbO3TUEF; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006301222215797@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Idiopathic Thermogenesis, Electronium & Potassium-40? Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:22:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940fdcbb4ebe928a3457ab4ea5d85c621a8350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.120.26 Resent-Message-ID: <0x0LOC.A.VLG.dX4EEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66952 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Spontaneous Human Combustion,SHC. Random K40 concentration? SCC Spontaneous Chicken Combustion. In Kervran's Chickens? http://www.journaloftheoretics.com/Articles/1-3/IT-final.html "This accumulation of radioactive isotopes within the cell serves as a basic component of radiogenic metabolism and, may also, be accelerated in times of stress or disease. When accompanied by increased free radical production, the chance for a positron-electron reaction multiplies. Similarly, documented ingestion of known radioactive materials, e.g., potassium supplements such as those taken by KF, will further increase the matter-antimatter potential and the likelihood of an intracellularly-mediated nuclear event (51). In addition to the electron-positron mechanism to produce high-energy gamma radiation within the cells capable of producing a photodisintegration event, the K40 itself provides an abundant supply of gamma radiation. K40, the most commonly occurring radioactive source within the human body, represents two-thirds of our internal radiation. It is found intracellularly, predominantly, in the lean mass of human tissues. Each day, 0.12 uCi (micro Curies) of K40 in the average man emits 41 million gamma rays (1.46 MeV), 300 million beta rays (.56 MeV), and 500 million delta rays (various energies). The biological half-life of K40 is 30 days (51). K40 not only effects intracellular H2O but also comes into contact with intracellular D2O (deuterium oxide). Deuterium atoms are rare; sources differ in the natural abundance of deuterium, ranging from 1 part in 4000 to 1 part in 7000 (1:4000 or 1:7000) with an average of approximately 1:6000. Subsequently, of all the water a person drinks, or comes in contact with, 1 drop in every 6000 drops will be a drop of heavy water (52). The photodisintegration of deuterium, releasing a proton and neutron, can be accomplished with as little as 2.225 MeV (calculated cross section). " ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

Spontaneous Human Combustion,SHC.   Random K40 concentration?

SCC Spontaneous Chicken Combustion.   In Kervran's Chickens?

http://www.journaloftheoretics.com/Articles/1-3/IT-final.html

"This accumulation of radioactive isotopes within the cell serves as a basic component of radiogenic metabolism and, may also, be accelerated in times of stress or disease. When accompanied by increased free radical production, the chance for a positron-electron reaction multiplies. Similarly, documented ingestion of known radioactive materials, e.g., potassium supplements such as those taken by KF, will further increase the matter-antimatter potential and the likelihood of an intracellularly-mediated nuclear event (51).

In addition to the electron-positron mechanism to produce high-energy gamma radiation within the cells capable of producing a photodisintegration event, the K40 itself provides an abundant supply of gamma radiation. K40, the most commonly occurring radioactive source within the human body, represents two-thirds of our internal radiation. It is found intracellularly, predominantly, in the lean mass of human tissues. Each day, 0.12 uCi (micro Curies) of K40 in the average man emits 41 million gamma rays (1.46 MeV), 300 million beta rays (.56 MeV), and 500 million delta rays (various energies). The biological half-life of K40 is 30 days (51).

K40 not only effects intracellular H2O but also comes into contact with intracellular D2O (deuterium oxide). Deuterium atoms are rare; sources differ in the natural abundance of deuterium, ranging from 1 part in 4000 to 1 part in 7000 (1:4000 or 1:7000) with an average of approximately 1:6000. Subsequently, of all the water a person drinks, or comes in contact with, 1 drop in every 6000 drops will be a drop of heavy water (52). The photodisintegration of deuterium, releasing a proton and neutron, can be accomplished with as little as 2.225 MeV (calculated cross section). "

 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 19:32:50 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C3WPpC003372; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:32:26 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2C3WOi7003355; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:32:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:32:24 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Science exposes Hot Fusion weaknesses: March 11, 2006 Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:32:20 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060311120104.02a522b0@mail.newenergytimes.com> <92p612193s9hdu2p09kcjlqj3tvs5h971e@4ax.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20060311161822.028b8f48@mail.newenergytimes.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20060311161822.028b8f48@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta01ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sun, 12 Mar 2006 03:32:19 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2C3WLgg003330 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66953 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Steven Krivit's message of Sat, 11 Mar 2006 16:18:52 -0800: Hi, [snip] I quote:- "This is a volume of 3400 m3, which, at an average density of about 3 g/cm3,would weigh 10,000 metric tons. A conservative cost would be ~$180/kg, for a total blanket-shield cost of $1.8 billion. This amounts to $1800/kWe of rated capacity—more than nuclear fission reactor plants cost today (8)." What is wrong with this is that the fusion reaction in question produces mono-energetic neutrons. This means that the expensive blanket/shielding can be replaced by a cheap 4 layer shield/blanket. 1) Inner layer - thin vacuum wall. 2) Thick layer of (cheap;heavy?) water, acts as neutron moderator, and removes heat. 3) Thin metal layer that chemically separates water layer from the Lithium layer. 4) Thin (and hence cheaper) Lithium layer that absorbs neutrons, slowed by the water layer, and produces Tritium. This layer can now afford to be much thinner , because the neutrons have already been slowed in the moderator (water) layer. This sort of arrangement should work, because the neutrons are mono-energetic, and hence the thickness of the water layer can be pre-determined such that it removes most of the energy from the neutrons, but allows e.g. 95% them to pass, leaving them free to enter the Li layer and react at thermal energies, where the reaction cross section is much higher, and hence the layer can be much thinner. Furthermore, this design has built in heat removal in the form of the water layer, which means that the heat removal per square meter of surface area can be much higher, and therefore the overall size much smaller, resulting in a far cheaper design. Furthermore, the heat created in the Li layer is also easily conducted back to the water layer as well, such that the water layer easily cools the entire reactor. Some of the hydrogen in the water will absorb a neutron and eventually convert to Tritium which can then be removed and used in the reactor. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 19:32:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C3WjAl003555; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:32:45 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2C3Whbn003512; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:32:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:32:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:32:37 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C8139CBE8075D5-2484-14670@mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Economic Near Miss Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.131 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66954 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Had this attack been successful, $10 per gallon would have been a bargain: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/03/AR2006030 302046.html http://tinyurl.com/n6xwb Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 19:37:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C3bX3e006891; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:37:33 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2C3bWO1006870; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:37:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:37:32 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:37:24 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C8139D6934D786-2484-146AC@mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: DON'T PANIC, okay go ahead . . . Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.131 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66955 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0222-27.htm Hotter, Faster, Worser by John Atcheson Over the past several months, the normally restrained voice of science has taken on a distinct note of panic when it comes to global warming. How did we go from debating the "uncertainty" behind climate science to near hysterical warnings from normally sober scientists about irrevocable and catastrophic consequences? Two reasons. First, there hasn?t been any real uncertainty in the scientific community for more than a decade. An unholy alliance of key fossil fuel corporations and conservative politicians have waged a sophisticated and well-funded misinformation campaign to create doubt and controversy in the face of nearly universal scientific consensus. In this, they were aided and abetted by a press which loved controversy more than truth, and by the Bush administration, which has systematically tried to distort the science and silence and intimidate government scientists who sought to speak out on global warming. But the second reason is that the scientific community failed to adequately anticipate and model several positive feedback loops that profoundly amplify the rate and extent of human-induced climate change. And in the case of global warming, positive feedback loops can have some very negative consequences. The plain fact is, we are fast approaching ? and perhaps well past ? several tipping points which would make global warming irreversible. ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 22:01:20 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C615F8007839; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:01:06 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2C614CK007825; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:01:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:01:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: My take on the Taleyarkhan affair Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:01:01 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060310193349.03535200@mindspring.com> <00ac01c644b2$25fddf20$6401a8c0@NuDell> In-Reply-To: <00ac01c644b2$25fddf20$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta03ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:01:00 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2C611iv007787 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66956 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Jones Beene's message of Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:18:55 -0800: Hi, [snip] >Hot fusion? Brian Ahern told me this: > >"I certainly do not believe the thermally based sonofusion claims >because I understand a term called (thermal diffusivity). It is >physically impossible to generate the temperatures that people >calculate [for the necessary time interval] because they neglect >this aspect of heat transfer. The shock wave densification may >have some merit, but thermal solutions are non-sensical." [snip] However deuterino based solutions are not nonsensical. The temperatures involved (1E4 - 1E5 degrees IMO), would make Boltzmann tail production of O++ possible (ideal = 4E5 K). This then could trigger deuterino production and consequent nuclear reactions. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 22:31:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C6VjYN021947; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:31:45 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2C6Vh0N021923; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:31:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:31:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: NEW ENERGY TIMES (tm) MARCH 10, 2006 -- Issue #15 Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:31:39 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060310144747.02cb7c88@mail.newenergytimes.com> <007501c644a0$3b94ee30$6401a8c0@NuDell> In-Reply-To: <007501c644a0$3b94ee30$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omtas01sl.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:26:11 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2C6Ve51021900 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66957 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Jones Beene's message of Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:10:40 -0800: Hi, [snip] >An excellent background article on this current situation, which >is relevant to Mills/BLP and the sad state of Science Journalism >in "Nature" compounded by the 'me-too' antics of the NYT appears >at: >http://newenergytimes.com/news/NET15.htm#bubbletrouble "The results were staggering, and Putterman reported results last year demonstrating that the plasma temperature he was able to measure was around 1 million degrees Celsius. Putterman's device wasn't able to drive fusion reactions because it wasn't hot enough." However as noted in my other post, this sort of temperature is just fine for creating O++. (BTW acetone contains an Oxygen atom, and it's double bond to carbon may make it particularly susceptible to becoming O++ is a high temperature environment.) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 23:46:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2C7jwRa020894; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:45:59 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2C7jvn2020882; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:45:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:45:57 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060311234805.02af0850@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:48:10 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: Re: Economic Near Miss In-Reply-To: <8C8139CBE8075D5-2484-14670@mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C8139CBE8075D5-2484-14670@mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <3T_SrC.A.LGF.1G9EEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66958 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://newenergytimes.com/Inthenews/2006/SuicideBombers.htm At 07:32 PM 3/11/2006, you wrote: >Had this attack been successful, $10 per gallon would have been a bargain: > >http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/03/AR2006030 >302046.html > >http://tinyurl.com/n6xwb > >Terry >___________________________________________________ >Try the New Netscape Mail Today! >Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List >http://mail.netscape.com > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 12 04:09:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CC9H4K011608; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 04:09:18 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2CC9CpL011567; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 04:09:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 04:09:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060311120104.02a522b0@mail.newenergytimes.com> <92p612193s9hdu2p09kcjlqj3tvs5h971e@4ax.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20060311161822.028b8f48@mail.newenergytimes.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Science exposes Hot Fusion weaknesses: March 11, 2006 Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 03:09:07 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66959 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A good idea below from Robin. Might also be possible to use LiOH solution with Li at 0.175 g/cm^3 in hot solution. Maybe the O18 generated would also find a use. 8^) Horace Heffner On Mar 11, 2006, at 6:32 PM, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > ... expensive > blanket/shielding can be replaced by a cheap 4 layer > shield/blanket. > > 1) Inner layer - thin vacuum wall. > 2) Thick layer of (cheap;heavy?) water, acts as neutron moderator, > and removes heat. > 3) Thin metal layer that chemically separates water layer from the > Lithium layer. > 4) Thin (and hence cheaper) Lithium layer that absorbs neutrons, > slowed by the water layer, and produces Tritium. This layer > can now afford to be much thinner , because the neutrons have > already been slowed in the moderator (water) layer. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 12 04:51:14 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CCd0FA000684; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 04:39:01 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2CCcuXn000637; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 04:38:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 04:38:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=R5+uDRCkGFwACo4OP3tHJGD5erdCUF+D7MKbIfhDP+3HmWledpYpwJRpB2feoi/2; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063012123834500@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Potassium-40 and Cold Fusion Etc. Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:38:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940020d928f6f6f9c382a0158411d58de4e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.31 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66960 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/K/biol.html "Potassium salts are essential for both animals and plants. The potassium cation (K+) is the major cation in intracellular (inside cells) fluids (sodium is the main extracellular cation). It is essential for nerve and heart function. A normal diet containing reasonable amounts of vegetables contains all the potassium necessary" A 170 lb person has 155 grams (2.2e24 atoms) of potassium. Of these 2.6e20 atoms are K40 (half life 1.26e9 years decay constant 1.74e-17) of these 2.8e19 decay by e+ (positron) emission or k-shell electron capture 4,520 1.46 MeV gammas/sec (can produce Electron-Positron Pairs) & produce Electronium (*e-) plus Calcium-40? 484 positron emission or K-captures/sec & produce Electronium (*e-) plus Argon-40 ? Biological Hydrogen-Deuterium: http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/H/biol.html A 170 lb person lugs around ~7,718 grams (4.6e27 atoms) of Hydrogen and ~ 7.0e23 atoms of Deuterium. Based on the use of Potassium in the infamous P & F, Electrolysis Cell, Les Case's Pd-Charcoal cell, Thermacore's OU Electrolysis Patent and Mills' Potassium Nitrate-Nitrite/Argon Hydrino work, We Are Walking Cold Fusion ExperimentsMachines! Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
 
"Potassium salts are essential for both animals and plants. The potassium cation (K+) is the major cation in intracellular
(inside cells) fluids (sodium is the main extracellular cation).
It is essential for nerve and heart function.
A normal diet containing reasonable amounts of vegetables contains all the potassium necessary"
A 170 lb person has 155 grams (2.2e24 atoms) of potassium.
 
Of these 2.6e20  atoms are K40  (half life 1.26e9 years decay constant 1.74e-17)
of these 2.8e19 decay by e+ (positron) emission or  k-shell electron capture
 
4,520  1.46 MeV gammas/sec  (can produce Electron-Positron Pairs) & produce Electronium (*e-) plus Calcium-40?
 
484   positron emission or K-captures/sec & produce Electronium (*e-) plus Argon-40 ?
 
Biological Hydrogen-Deuterium:
 
 
A 170 lb person lugs around ~7,718 grams (4.6e27 atoms) of Hydrogen and ~ 7.0e23 atoms of Deuterium.
 
Based on the use of Potassium in the infamous P & F, Electrolysis Cell, Les Case's Pd-Charcoal cell,
Thermacore's OU Electrolysis Patent and Mills' Potassium Nitrate-Nitrite/Argon  Hydrino work, 
 
We Are Walking Cold Fusion ExperimentsMachines!
 
Fred
 
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 12 05:23:40 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CDNGDV030729; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:23:17 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2CDNFvX030684; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:23:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 05:23:15 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=ldFjTbkBviylVTMfx6lAXOMV16BMTb1w+5VMDoMS7jIoV/Amm1G14GEnLEvpBQ8T; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006301213234689@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Internet blows CIA cover Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 06:23:04 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9405bb0e361d9e96c51bda5dbe5eb0c8922350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.132 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66961 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Any Vortex subscribers-lurkers names there, Bill? http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/03/12/0353200 http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/politics/14076456.htm I have my suspicions about a certain party that uses a "handle". :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Any Vortex subscribers-lurkers names there, Bill?
 
 
 
I have my suspicions about a certain party that uses a "handle". :-)
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 12 08:20:12 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CGJpx8011957; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:19:51 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2CGJnY0011941; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:19:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:19:49 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:19:43 -0500 Message-Id: <8C81407E824F5FA-2768-75A3@mblkn-m09.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <410-220063012123834500@earthlink.net> Cc: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <410-220063012123834500@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Potassium-40 and Cold Fusion Etc. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.73 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2CGJk1p011919 Resent-Message-ID: <1GGhgB.A.d6C.koEFEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66962 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Frederick Sparber It is essential for nerve and heart function. A normal diet containing reasonable amounts of vegetables contains all the potassium necessary" A 170 lb person has 155 grams (2.2e24 atoms) of potassium. <><><><><><> Those of us who use potassium cloride instead of salt could go any minute, eh? "Flame on!" Terry PS So who's the Vort handler, Fred? ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 12 08:27:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CGR3Yk015496; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:27:03 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2CGR1Vx015466; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:27:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:27:01 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <002301c645f1$c7385330$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060311120104.02a522b0@mail.newenergytimes.com> <92p612193s9hdu2p09kcjlqj3tvs5h971e@4ax.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20060311161822.028b8f48@mail.newenergytimes.com> Subject: Re: Science exposes Hot Fusion weaknesses: March 11, 2006 Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:26:54 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66963 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin and Horace, >A good idea below from Robin. There are major problems with it - basically it was the first thing considered in the 1950s and it won't work. The one thing that the billions of dollars spent (wasted) on fusion has achieved is an accurate assessment of tritium breeding. Fusion depends on tritium breeding. You cannot get enough tritium to sustain the reaction using natural lithium and moderated neutrons. Period. That is the problem and the reason for the elaborate and expensive blankets. The blankets are neutron multipliers using tin/beryllium or lead to multiply neutrons. A common multiplier is called Flibe which is a fluorine based salt of lithium and beryllium. Without this there is zero possibility for fusion with in-situ breeding UNLESS (answer at the end) To restate the facts, no tritium occurs in nature since it has a 10 year half-life. The most promising source of in-situ tritium is the breeding of tritium from lithium-6 by neutron bombardment of thermal neutrons - except that Li-6 is only 7.5% of natural, and the losses drop you way below what is needed to self-sustain. You must enrich Li it to about 90% to get even close in any circumstances where the reaction is achieved by slow neutrons multiplied from fast neutron, and even then - using a very expensive isotope and very expensive walls, you are cutting it too thin to be practical in terms of the breeding ratio. Lithium-6 makes up 7.4% of natural lithium. While this constitutes a sizable supply, it is THE limiting resource for the D-T process since the supply of deuterium fuel is virtually unlimited. However, if you can use the fast neutrons, tritium can be bred from the more abundant Li-7 and the very limited supply is extended by a large factor -however this material MUST be exposed directly to fast neutrons, as even a thin wall will slow them too much. That is why we have this very expensive "film cooling" of the first wall by Li-7. CUT TO THE CHASE: The BEST (by far) method of getting the needed tritium is to breed most of it from a cheaper reactor thermal blanket, as Robin/Horace suggest using heavy water and natural lithium hydroxide - this gives you about 75% of the tritium you need to self-sustain. This was what we were planning on doing in the 1960s, until it was discovered that it came up short. Politics prevents anything other than an in-situ solution and politics prevents R&D on the fission/fusion hydbrids. Cut to New Mexico and the early 1990s. Major breakthrough in tritium goes totally under the radar of the fusion establishment. The bastards do not want cheap tritium! Proliferation risk! Junk science! However, the truth of the matter is that the remaining 25% of the required tritium - the part that cannot be bred cheaply - can made up on site but not in-situ, by using about 5% of the net reactor power to do the Claytor process of tritium LENR !! Its a no-brainer really, cost-wise, and can save a minimum of a billion bucks per plant- but because these egg-heads at Princeton and elsewhere are so blind to LENR and to the Claytor results, which many have said are the strongest results in all of LENR - it is not going to happen. It has been either pushed to the way-side (or gone "black" as our vortex-CIA-mole probably believes), just as in the movie "Chain Reaction". You now have these entrenched interests in "hot fusion" who WANT to build a $5 billion dollar machine instead of a $500 million machine. They have put their own money into the prototyping plants to built the high-priced spread and they do not want you to overturn their apple-cart and source of future wealth by showing them the folly of their ways. Poor Claytor - he is the one fall-guy in all of LENR whose story reads like a Greek Tragedy, IMHO - not that P&F are even less Pollyanna-like (those are mostly on Vo these days). Believe it or not - the first country to achieve net fusion energy will probably be China - because they will go with the fast/cheap/dirty route and do it via fission/fusion hybrid (also a no-brainer) unless ... ...they have (likely) already stolen the Claytor tritium secrets. Given the past security lapses at his lab, and the fact those lapses came from ties to the Chinese, there is every possibility that LENR of the Claytor/tritium variety - and the future of fusion - is alive and well in the land of dragons. Jones It there something going on, in the wider-population on **Sundays** and in the methodology of a prevalent meme - which tends to draw out the maximum "rant-potential" in even normally introspective observers...? From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 12 09:08:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CH8S1j007040; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:08:29 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2CH8R4s007025; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:08:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:08:27 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:08:19 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8140EB2148CFA-2638-23B98@mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060311120104.02a522b0@mail.newenergytimes.com> <92p612193s9hdu2p09kcjlqj3tvs5h971e@4ax.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20060311161822.028b8f48@mail.newenergytimes.com> <002301c645f1$c7385330$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <002301c645f1$c7385330$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Science exposes Hot Fusion weaknesses: March 11, 2006 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.130 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2CH8Pnf006987 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66964 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene >The blankets are neutron multipliers using tin/beryllium or lead to multiply neutrons. Paul Brown's battery used beryllium/copper wires but a Sr90 beta source. But that was a different thread. >It there something going on, in the wider-population on **Sundays** and in the methodology of a prevalent meme - which tends to draw out the maximum "rant-potential" in even normally introspective observers...?   A 95% full, waxing gibbous moon, IMO. -hohlrauml6d ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 12 09:33:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CHXUmI021678; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:33:30 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2CHXScE021663; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:33:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:33:28 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Z0nXipPD0Psz5HNpChiGABzdxdP/zBGgb6vYhq06Z+jJ6dhY3MrQSDSQMHICT5pK; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063012173319504@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Science exposes Hot Fusion weaknesses: March 11, 2006 Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 10:33:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940702f2e1ddc7b54c5f8b78d2cbb6a6ecb350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.163.173 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66965 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Jones Beene asks: > > It there something going on, in the wider-population on > **Sundays** and in the methodology of a prevalent meme - which > tends to draw out the maximum "rant-potential" in even normally > introspective observers...? > Typical response to the Lunar Cycle, Jones. Check the vortex archives date index against this moon phase calculator. :-) Something to do with the potassium level in the Pineal Gland and the 29 day Spike of TeraHz Radiation from the moon. Something to do with Seratonin-Melatonin & "Hor Moans". Johnny Carson read my note to him to the world on this back in May of 1981 it replayed on "Best of Carson" a couple of years later. My phone didn't stop ringing for days after. :-) http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/vphase.html For Your "third eye" :-) http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/cgi-bin/vphase-post.sh ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Jones Beene asks:
>
> It there something going on, in the wider-population on
> **Sundays** and in the methodology of a prevalent meme - which
> tends to draw out the maximum "rant-potential" in even normally
> introspective <g> observers...?
>
Typical response to the Lunar Cycle, Jones.
 
Check the vortex archives date index against this moon phase calculator. :-)
 
Something to do with the potassium level in the Pineal Gland and
the  29 day Spike of TeraHz Radiation from the moon.
Something to do with Seratonin-Melatonin & "Hor Moans".
 
Johnny Carson read my note to him to the world on this back in May of 1981
it replayed on "Best of Carson" a couple of years later. My phone didn't
stop ringing for days after.  :-)
 
 
For Your "third eye"  :-)
 
 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 12 09:59:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CHwrHX004732; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:58:54 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2CHwqV6004721; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:58:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 09:58:52 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <44146140.4010000@usfamily.net> Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:58:24 -0600 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: DON'T PANIC the other side References: <8C8139D6934D786-2484-146AC@mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C8139D6934D786-2484-146AC@mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <8qY8e.A.tJB.cFGFEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66966 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote: > Hotter, Faster, Worser > by John Atcheson > > Over the past several months, the normally restrained voice of science > has taken on a I heard Roy Spencer interviewed on C to C AM. This is his serious writing. I particularly liked the article on the Climate Change conference. http://www.tcsdaily.com/Authors.aspx?id=267 --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 12 11:57:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CJv2b3004149; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:57:02 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2CJuxG1004107; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:56:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 11:56:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:56:39 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C81426364033F5-22EC-29B3@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: How Kirk Changed the World Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.136 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66967 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tonight on the History Channel: "You've got a cell phone at one ear, an iPod at the other. You know that Blackberry is now a verb and Spam is not only canned meat. But just how did we get here? Blame William Shatner--yes, that William Shatner--Captain Kirk. We'll boldly go where few have gone before to reveal how scientists, inspired by the series, would revolutionize medicine and are surpassing the far-out vision of the future foreshadowed in Star Trek in the 1960s. From cell phones to computers to even leading-edge medical advancements, this 2-hour special explores how those sci-fi inventions have now permeated everyday life as we know it. Hosted and narrated by Shatner and based on his book, I'm Working on That, we'll meet the brightest minds of Silicon Valley and the Trek-inspired inventions that have help change the world." Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 12 13:53:41 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CLrPAS003101; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:53:25 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2CLrNx7003083; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:53:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 13:53:23 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=ReEm28cpCPOxaLVjHKWccB41r+eT/WhA/2TN8G8SsJxbmqB8huclD7RPdLlbmehQ; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006301221539386@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Auger Electron Spectroscopy in the Search for Electronium? Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 14:53:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94068365cc7a3c10ab39ff26af040c8223c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.83 Resent-Message-ID: <0trTtD.A.Cw.ShJFEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66968 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII http://www.chem.qmul.ac.uk/surfaces/scc/scat5_2.htm "Auger spectroscopy can be considered as involving three basic steps": "(1) Atomic ionization (by removal of a core electron) " "(2) Electron emission (the Auger process) " "(3) Analysis of the emitted Auger electrons " Might step 3 find the proposed ~2 to ~3 Electron Mass (*e-) particle? Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
 
 
 
"Auger spectroscopy can be considered as involving three basic steps":

"(1)   Atomic ionization (by removal of a core electron) "

"(2)   Electron emission (the Auger process) "

"(3)   Analysis of the emitted Auger electrons "

Might step 3 find the proposed  ~2 to ~3 Electron Mass (*e-) particle?

Fred

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 12 15:27:03 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2CNQkQO013956; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:26:46 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2CNQicM013935; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:26:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:26:44 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Science exposes Hot Fusion weaknesses: March 11, 2006 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:26:33 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060311120104.02a522b0@mail.newenergytimes.com> <92p612193s9hdu2p09kcjlqj3tvs5h971e@4ax.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20060311161822.028b8f48@mail.newenergytimes.com> <002301c645f1$c7385330$6401a8c0@NuDell> In-Reply-To: <002301c645f1$c7385330$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta04ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sun, 12 Mar 2006 23:26:32 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2CNQbtk013847 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66969 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Jones Beene's message of Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:26:54 -0800: Hi, [snip] >CUT TO THE CHASE: > >The BEST (by far) method of getting the needed tritium is to breed >most of it from a cheaper reactor thermal blanket, as Robin/Horace >suggest using heavy water and natural lithium hydroxide - this >gives you about 75% of the tritium you need to self-sustain. This >was what we were planning on doing in the 1960s, until it was >discovered that it came up short. [snip] Using only Li6 (in heavy water as Horace suggested), and running a few numbers I get a neutron breeding ratio of about 2.7 (from the deuterium), i.e. for every incident fast neutron about 1.7 extra slow neutrons. This is probably a bit off because it assumes that the ratio of the fission and elastic scattering cross sections is constant for any incident neutron energy above 2.2 MeV. Nevertheless it takes no account of extra neutrons flowing from secondary collisions, of energetic deuterium nuclei, which in turn result from elastic collisions with energetic neutrons. So it may not be too far off. Since nearly all of these neutrons are going to react with Li6 to create T, this would appear to actually be a T breeder. (The reaction cross section for the reaction n + Li6 -> He4 + T + 4.78 MeV is about 940 b for thermal neutrons, which totally swamps the cross section for any other potential reaction). Taking into account the fact that there are going to be about 2.7 of these reactions for every fusion reaction, the net energy from this reaction increases to 12.9 MeV / fusion reaction, which is about 73% of the fusion energy. IOW the breeding step nearly doubles the overall energy output. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 12 16:06:54 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D06TdB000723; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:06:30 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2D06S6Z000710; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:06:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:06:28 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Science exposes Hot Fusion weaknesses: March 11, 2006 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:06:25 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <19d912p6g3ilj02cuib8epjgfahvf0v428@4ax.com> References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060311120104.02a522b0@mail.newenergytimes.com> <92p612193s9hdu2p09kcjlqj3tvs5h971e@4ax.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20060311161822.028b8f48@mail.newenergytimes.com> <002301c645f1$c7385330$6401a8c0@NuDell> In-Reply-To: <002301c645f1$c7385330$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta03ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Mon, 13 Mar 2006 00:06:25 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2D06P5i000675 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66970 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Jones Beene's message of Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:26:54 -0800: Hi, [snip] >To restate the facts, no tritium occurs in nature since it has a >10 year half-life. The most promising source of in-situ tritium is >the breeding of tritium from lithium-6 by neutron bombardment of >thermal neutrons - except that Li-6 is only 7.5% of natural, and >the losses drop you way below what is needed to self-sustain. You [snip] Looking at the long term, I'm not really sure that this makes any difference, for two reasons. 1) There's a huge reservoir of Li salts in the ocean, even though these are extremely dilute. 2) Even the restricted quantity available on land is likely to last long enough for us to develop reactors that no longer use the D-T reaction, hence no longer rely on Li6 availability. The huge cross section of the Li6 + n -> He4 + T reaction gives me hope that the cross section of the Hy + Li7 -> 2 x He4 reaction would be even greater. This despite the fact that the cross section for p-Li7 is quite low. IOW I suspect that the long confinement times and high densities made possible by hydrinos will drastically alter the reaction cross section. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 12 16:17:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D0HT2s006782; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:17:30 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2D0HRNx006751; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:17:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:17:27 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <007301c64633$80583a60$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060311120104.02a522b0@mail.newenergytimes.com> <92p612193s9hdu2p09kcjlqj3tvs5h971e@4ax.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20060311161822.028b8f48@mail.newenergytimes.com> <002301c645f1$c7385330$6401a8c0@NuDell> Subject: Re: Science exposes Hot Fusion weaknesses: March 11, 2006 Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:17:22 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: <3nT48B.A.VpB.WoLFEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66971 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin, > Using only Li6 (in heavy water as Horace suggested), and running > a > few numbers I get a neutron breeding ratio of about 2.7 (from > the > deuterium), i.e. for every incident fast neutron about 1.7 extra > slow neutrons. Actually it is close to unity. The (n,2n) reaction is extremely rare with most light elements - 7Li and Be - being the ONLY exceptions. Fast neutrons simply do not breed many neutrons with either heavy water or 6Li. >This is probably a bit off because it assumes that > the ratio of the fission and elastic scattering cross sections > is > constant for any incident neutron energy above 2.2 MeV. Yes It is way off. Fast neutrons are very funny - and you simply cannot base the situation on what thermal neturons do. Fast neutrons only react certain nuclei. This has all been worked out by careful experiment, and has been known for decades. > Nevertheless it takes no account of extra neutrons flowing from > secondary collisions, of energetic deuterium nuclei, which in > turn > result from elastic collisions with energetic neutrons. So it > may > not be too far off. There are always too few without a true multiplier - which is the (n,2n) reaction. It just doesn't happen with light lithium or heavy water. Sorry. You need to get hold of old issues of "Fusion Technology" for the confirmation of this, but I am pretty certain of the details > Since nearly all of these neutrons are going to react with Li6 > to > create T, this would appear to actually be a T breeder. This is based on an incorrect assumtpion. Fast neutrons do not multiply with light lithium or heavy water, so there is always less than one thermal for every incident 14 MeV high energy one (since some few will go though a meter of heavy water without interacting - even the scattering cross section for fast neturons is low). > (The reaction cross section for the reaction n + Li6 -> He4 + T > + > 4.78 MeV is about 940 b for thermal neutrons, which totally > swamps > the cross section for any other potential reaction). Yes. Most thermal neutrons will react with the 6Li - the problem is that fewer are multiplied than the ones which escape, so the result is too little tritium to sustain. > Taking into account the fact that there are going to be about > 2.7 > of these reactions for every fusion reaction, That is not a fact. In fact it is a considerably large error, because you are assuming (n,2n) multiplication in a situation where there is none. Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 12 16:20:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D0KcsA009880; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:20:39 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2D0Kb83009858; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:20:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:20:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydrogen from electrolysis versus gasoline Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:20:35 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <1de9129fu3as5lomvfdasr5ljnvrjhpuie@4ax.com> References: <005d01c64463$66d0f860$6401a8c0@NuDell> <7.0.1.0.2.20060310160457.03471b68@mindspring.com> <004201c64494$f3b7dec0$6401a8c0@NuDell> <7.0.1.0.2.20060310181723.035cbb50@mindspring.com> In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060310181723.035cbb50@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omtas01sl.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Mon, 13 Mar 2006 00:15:06 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2D0KYiO009820 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66972 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:36:36 -0500: Hi, [snip] >With this scheme it >would not be a problem because whenever demand fell significantly you >would divert the load into hydrogen generation, and you would >continue to supply some electricity with quick response >load-balancing generators, which I suppose would be natural gas turbines. I don't really see the need for this. Current which is being diverted through an electrolysis cell can very rapidly be redirected to the grid almost effortlessly. IOW electrolysis doesn't really demand constant current. The only net result would be that the H2 production would fluctuate considerably, but so what? Or were you referring to times when no wind was blowing? BTW if all wind generators are hooked into the national grid, then load balancing shouldn't really be that much of a problem, because "The wind is always blowing somewhere". Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 12 17:42:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D1g92g017950; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:42:10 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2D1g7cX017924; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:42:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 17:42:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Science exposes Hot Fusion weaknesses: March 11, 2006 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:41:58 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060311120104.02a522b0@mail.newenergytimes.com> <92p612193s9hdu2p09kcjlqj3tvs5h971e@4ax.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20060311161822.028b8f48@mail.newenergytimes.com> <002301c645f1$c7385330$6401a8c0@NuDell> <007301c64633$80583a60$6401a8c0@NuDell> In-Reply-To: <007301c64633$80583a60$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta05ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Mon, 13 Mar 2006 01:41:58 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2D1g0OG017876 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66973 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Jones Beene's message of Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:17:22 -0800: Hi Jones, [snip] >Robin, > >> Using only Li6 (in heavy water as Horace suggested), and running >> a >> few numbers I get a neutron breeding ratio of about 2.7 (from >> the >> deuterium), i.e. for every incident fast neutron about 1.7 extra >> slow neutrons. > >Actually it is close to unity. The (n,2n) reaction is extremely >rare with most light elements - 7Li and Be - being the ONLY >exceptions. Fast neutrons simply do not breed many neutrons with >either heavy water or 6Li. [snip] According to http://atom.kaeri.re.kr/cgi-bin/nuclide?nuc=H-2&n=2 the (n,2n) cross section for 14 MeV neutrons on D is 177 mb, while the elastic scattering cross section for 14 MeV neutrons is only 624 mb. IOW at 14 MeV there is a 28% chance that a collision will produce an extra neutron. What I did, as previously mentioned is assume that this ratio (i.e. 28%) holds constant while the energy remains above 2.2 MeV. That is not so. Actually the 177 mb drops off while at the same time the elastic scattering cross section increases. IOW the ratio drops back. A more accurate calculation results in about 0.47 extra neutrons for every initial fast neutron, not including secondaries. (It takes about 4-5 worst case collisions for the fast neutron to lose so much energy that it is no longer capable of fissioning a D). IOW we should get about 1.5 thermal neutrons out for every fast neutron going in, and nearly all of the thermal neutrons are going to produce T. This should still be a breeder. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 10 18:11:19 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2B2B6fh011636; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:11:06 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2B2B5BZ011609; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:11:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:11:05 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Sender:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=iriIZjQEKjFM5KDon99hwJ6IhwkDPZOY8lVH1EBUclaHqDWXqDjZ1m0kIAnd7LGQTQ2Yl+XRoA8Nn2p3ybeXwsH+2jnlZLeGZs9KGVNf7YIb4bPqv+hg6PgqSBmHf6b7a90wtZ8EDMjs9mu0Wy1R675m/HHI9Hwk1H3bz+T0FLM= ; Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.1.20060310205405.01d62bf0@pop> X-Sender: philip.winestone@pop X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.1.1 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:08:58 -0500 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Philip Winestone Subject: Re: My take on the Taleyarkhan affair In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060310193349.03535200@mindspring.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060310193349.03535200@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_21871765==.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66910 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends5 Status: RO X-Status: --=====================_21871765==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jed - A very well-put assessment of the situation... "It is now officially "misconduct" to do experiments that challenge=20 textbook theory. Theoreticians have appointed themselves the high priests=20 of science, and an experimentalist who does anything to upset them is not=20 merely mistaken or foolish, as they said back in 1989. Now he is unethical,= =20 and he must be "investigated" and crushed." This is the "New Inquisition." So when you say "high priests," it's not=20 just a metaphor. The same kind of mentality (or lack of it) has been at=20 work over the ages in all the workings of man, from science to religion...= =20 even to art and music. We may believe that man is evolving to greater and= =20 greater heights, but in a certain sense - as human beings exhibiting decent= =20 human behaviour - we are devolving. Let's not for one moment believe that= =20 having really neat technologies defines us as advanced human beings. Look=20 around you!! Some of us are not easily intimidated. We owe it to the scientists who=20 have accepted the risk of breaking the existing paradigms, to protect them= =20 every way we can. My own approach to this whole thing - call it "cold fusion" or "micro hot=20 fusion" - is to begin to create working prototypes using the most appealing= =20 of the various techniques. A working unit, or a series of working units,=20 each performing as it should - even if it's not performing optimally - is=20 far more convincing TO THE ORDINARY MAN than endlessly debating the=20 tarnished opinions of the self-proclaimed "high priests" of science. Honesty will out. Philip. At 08:05 PM 3/10/2006 -0500, you wrote: >I have been Taleyarkhan with Yeong Kim, who is also a professor at Purdue,= =20 >and with Ed Storms. Kim told me: > >>[Taleyarkhan] believes his bubble fusion is a hot fusion. After he found= =20 >>out that I have been working on cold fusion and told him that what he is= =20 >>doing is cold fusion and not a hot fusion, he has been avoiding me for=20 >>any scientific or technical discussions . . . > >I have heard from other people that Taleyarkhan wants to distance himself= =20 >from the field of cold fusion. It is not surprising. He knows what=20 >happened to cold fusion researchers! > >As to the technical question, is this some form of cold fusion, Kim=20 >suspects it might be and I gather so does McKubre. Storms disagrees. He=20 >thinks there is no connection between the Taleyarkhan effect and cold=20 >fusion. I cannot judge, but anyone can see that it is "mostly" hot fusion. > >However, many people such as the editors of Nature and Robert Park,=20 >vehemently oppose both kind of research. (They oppose anything that is=20 >new, original or interesting. They have made it their life's work to=20 >prevent progress.) This gang of naysayers has deliberately conflated the=20 >Taleyarkhan effect and cold fusion. They do this as a political tactic.=20 >Whether they actually believe there is a connection or not, they assert=20 >there is one, especially in the press, because they want to trigger=20 >attacks by the Washington Post, Time Magazine and other rabid opponents of= =20 >cold fusion. > >In 1952, people used this political tactic to destroy business rivals (and= =20 >sometimes jilted lovers, and other enemies), by calling them "communists."= =20 >Whether the target really was a communist or not had nothing to do with=20 >it. The purpose was to destroy the guy with guilt by association. > >Ed Storms was baffled by the brouhaha in the press. He said: "Naturally=20 >the detected amounts are wrong because the measurements are not sensitive= =20 >enough to see the expected ratio. What is the advantage to anyone to mix=20 >these two phenomenon?" As I said, the advantage is that you crush the=20 >opposition by associating them with cold fusion. But Storms, in an=20 >uncharacteristically na=EFve moment, said he does not understand why anyone= =20 >would attack research in the newspapers in the first place. "This=20 >situation makes no sense." If these other researchers feel there is a=20 >problem with the experiment, they should discuss it by e-mail, or publish= =20 >papers showing an error. > >Here is my take on the situation: > >Think Zeitgeist. This is the kind of age we live in. This is what science= =20 >has come to. When people publish experimental results that contradict=20 >theory, instead of debating the issues according to logic and textbook=20 >knowledge, academic rivals spread false rumors, they threaten lawsuits,=20 >they meddle, and they conduct witch hunt investigations to derail the=20 >research and destroy careers. It worked with cold fusion, so now they do=20 >it every time something new comes along. > >Taleyarkhan is being investigated for "academic misconduct" because a=20 >theoretician thinks the experiment contradicts theory. It is now=20 >officially "misconduct" to do experiments that challenge textbook theory.= =20 >Theoreticians have appointed themselves the high priests of science, and=20 >an experimentalist who does anything to upset them is not merely mistaken= =20 >or foolish, as they said back in 1989. Now he is unethical, and he must be= =20 >"investigated" and crushed. > >Perhaps, as Schwinger predicted, this will be the death of science.=20 >Science is at a low point, and no one can say when, or if, it will=20 >recover. But I expect it will. Valuable, vital institutions seldom=20 >collapse completely. Usually after they reach an dysfunctional extreme, a= =20 >crisis occurs, and then the problems are fixed. > >- Jed > > --=====================_21871765==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jed - A very well-put assessment of the situation...

"It is now officially "misconduct" to do experiments that challenge textbook theory. Theoreticians have appointed themselves the high priests of science, and an experimentalist who does anything to upset them is not merely mistaken or foolish, as they said back in 1989. Now he is unethical, and he must be "investigated" and crushed."

This is the "New Inquisition."  So when you say "high priests," it's not just a metaphor.  The same kind of mentality (or lack of it) has been at work over the ages in all the workings of man, from science to religion... even to art and music.  We may believe that man is evolving to greater and greater heights, but in a certain sense - as human beings exhibiting decent human behaviour - we are devolving.  Let's not for one moment believe that having really neat technologies defines us as advanced human beings. Look around you!!

Some of us are not easily intimidated.  We owe it to the scientists who have accepted the risk of breaking the existing paradigms, to protect them every way we can. 

My own approach to this whole thing - call it "cold fusion" or "micro hot fusion" - is to begin to create working prototypes using the most appealing of the various techniques.  A working unit, or a series of working units, each performing as it should - even if it's not performing optimally - is far more convincing TO THE ORDINARY MAN than endlessly debating the tarnished opinions of the self-proclaimed "high priests" of science.

Honesty will out.

Philip.



At 08:05 PM 3/10/2006 -0500, you wrote:
I have been Taleyarkhan with Yeong Kim, who is also a professor at Purdue, and with Ed Storms. Kim told me:

[Taleyarkhan] believes his bubble fusion is a hot fusion. After he found out that I have been working on cold fusion and told him that what he is doing is cold fusion and not a hot fusion, he has been avoiding me for any scientific or technical discussions . . .

I have heard from other people that Taleyarkhan wants to distance himself from the field of cold fusion. It is not surprising. He knows what happened to cold fusion researchers!

As to the technical question, is this some form of cold fusion, Kim suspects it might be and I gather so does McKubre. Storms disagrees. He thinks there is no connection between the Taleyarkhan effect and cold fusion. I cannot judge, but anyone can see that it is "mostly" hot fusion.

However, many people such as the editors of Nature and Robert Park, vehemently oppose both kind of research. (They oppose anything that is new, original or interesting. They have made it their life's work to prevent progress.) This gang of naysayers has deliberately conflated the Taleyarkhan effect and cold fusion. They do this as a political tactic. Whether they actually believe there is a connection or not, they assert there is one, especially in the press, because they want to trigger attacks by the Washington Post, Time Magazine and other rabid opponents of cold fusion.

In 1952, people used this political tactic to destroy business rivals (and sometimes jilted lovers, and other enemies), by calling them "communists." Whether the target really was a communist or not had nothing to do with it. The purpose was to destroy the guy with guilt by association.

Ed Storms was baffled by the brouhaha in the press. He said: "Naturally the detected amounts are wrong because the measurements are not sensitive enough to see the expected ratio. What is the advantage to anyone to mix these two phenomenon?" As I said, the advantage is that you crush the opposition by associating them with cold fusion. But Storms, in an uncharacteristically na=EFve moment, said he does not understand why anyone would attack research in the newspapers in the first place. "This situation makes no sense." If these other researchers feel there is a problem with the experiment, they should discuss it by e-mail, or publish papers showing an error.

Here is my take on the situation:

Think Zeitgeist. This is the kind of age we live in. This is what science has come to. When people publish experimental results that contradict theory, instead of debating the issues according to logic and textbook knowledge, academic rivals spread false rumors, they threaten lawsuits, they meddle, and they conduct witch hunt investigations to derail the research and destroy careers. It worked with cold fusion, so now they do it every time something new comes along.

Taleyarkhan is being investigated for "academic misconduct" because a theoretician thinks the experiment contradicts theory. It is now officially "misconduct" to do experiments that challenge textbook theory. Theoreticians have appointed themselves the high priests of science, and an experimentalist who does anything to upset them is not merely mistaken or foolish, as they said back in 1989. Now he is unethical, and he must be "investigated" and crushed.

Perhaps, as Schwinger predicted, this will be the death of science. Science is at a low point, and no one can say when, or if, it will recover. But I expect it will. Valuable, vital institutions seldom collapse completely. Usually after they reach an dysfunctional extreme, a crisis occurs, and then the problems are fixed.

- Jed



--=====================_21871765==.ALT-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 11 10:07:31 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2BI7F6e020515; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:07:15 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2BI7C21020463; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:07:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:07:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Sender:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Z/AUxM0lBX6w+0uv/YrWeeBuu3m+M0bPs8g9/YlIcmDRRVM7/3BlCbbmCceoqldvyaQhkHOmNwvDjxGN79PrWVaO28poFVgESygQnsq/qmA8EKvm70U2DRmbD2QUdTtH1vK6jbse3QSUNfkmQfk98s8PYmv0kI2OqFkzM35t8zM= ; Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.1.20060311130300.01d66990@pop> X-Sender: philip.winestone@pop X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.1.1 Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 13:04:35 -0500 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Philip Winestone Subject: Re: My take on the Taleyarkhan affair In-Reply-To: <441307DB.6070209@ix.netcom.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060310193349.03535200@mindspring.com> <441307DB.6070209@ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2BI76Ab020417 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66934 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends5 Status: RO X-Status: "Everyone is slowly being infected by irrationally by the examples we see in the world in general." That's the main point, and the media, having undertaken to be the intellectual guardians and leaders of public morality and thinking, are leading the pack. Philip. At 10:24 AM 3/11/2006 -0700, you wrote: >skip >>Ed Storms was baffled by the brouhaha in the press. He said: "Naturally >>the detected amounts are wrong because the measurements are not sensitive >>enough to see the expected ratio. What is the advantage to anyone to mix >>these two phenomenon?" As I said, the advantage is that you crush the >>opposition by associating them with cold fusion. But Storms, in an >>uncharacteristically naïve moment, said he does not understand why anyone >>would attack research in the newspapers in the first place. "This >>situation makes no sense." If these other researchers feel there is a >>problem with the experiment, they should discuss it by e-mail, or publish >>papers showing an error. >>Here is my take on the situation: >>Think Zeitgeist. This is the kind of age we live in. This is what science >>has come to. When people publish experimental results that contradict >>theory, instead of debating the issues according to logic and textbook >>knowledge, academic rivals spread false rumors, they threaten lawsuits, >>they meddle, and they conduct witch hunt investigations to derail the >>research and destroy careers. It worked with cold fusion, so now they do >>it every time something new comes along. >>Taleyarkhan is being investigated for "academic misconduct" because a >>theoretician thinks the experiment contradicts theory. It is now >>officially "misconduct" to do experiments that challenge textbook theory. >>Theoreticians have appointed themselves the high priests of science, and >>an experimentalist who does anything to upset them is not merely mistaken >>or foolish, as they said back in 1989. Now he is unethical, and he must >>be "investigated" and crushed. >>Perhaps, as Schwinger predicted, this will be the death of science. >>Science is at a low point, and no one can say when, or if, it will >>recover. But I expect it will. Valuable, vital institutions seldom >>collapse completely. Usually after they reach an dysfunctional extreme, a >>crisis occurs, and then the problems are fixed. > >I still think something is odd about the approach taken by the press to >bubble fusion. All fields of science have internal conflict and questions >about the data. These issues are routinely resolved in the pages of >scientific journals and in discussion between scientists. The press does >not get involved and the general public never knows or cares about the >issues. In recent times, the press has taken notice of emotional >scientific issues such as stem cell research and global warming. General >interest in these issues is understandable. However, why would bubble >fusion get press attention and be of interest to anyone except the few >people working on the subject? That is what seems strange to me. In >addition, why would an important university such as Purdue risk its >reputation for academic freedom by initiating a formal investigation of a >minor conflict between professors? Rejection of cold fusion made sense >because the phenomenon has the potential to disrupt science as well as >industry. Bubble fusion has neither possibility. Of course, Jed might be >right. Everyone is slowly being infected by irrationally by the examples >we see in the world in general. > >Ed >>- Jed >> From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 12 18:43:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D2grGX016649; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:42:53 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2D2gpsY016626; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:42:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:42:51 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <009201c64647$d1912310$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060311120104.02a522b0@mail.newenergytimes.com> <92p612193s9hdu2p09kcjlqj3tvs5h971e@4ax.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20060311161822.028b8f48@mail.newenergytimes.com> <002301c645f1$c7385330$6401a8c0@NuDell> <007301c64633$80583a60$6401a8c0@NuDell> Subject: Re: Science exposes Hot Fusion weaknesses: March 11, 2006 Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:42:48 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66974 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Robin, You said: According to http://atom.kaeri.re.kr/cgi-bin/nuclide?nuc=H-2&n=2 the (n,2n) cross section for 14 MeV neutrons on D is 177 mb That sounds about right - but this is very low - and if memory serves this is actually about the same as the capture cross-section of oxygen for thermals - and you know how rare that is - plus since you get many more collisions at thermal energy - you will actually loose neutrons to the oxygen of heavy water faster than you can make extra neutrons via (n,2n) > IOW we should get about 1.5 thermal neutrons out for every fast > neutron going in, and nearly all of the thermal neutrons are > going > to produce T. This should still be a breeder. Taking the ratio of the two - as you did is just a ballpark calc - and not the correct way to figure it - but I will have to get the experimental data out of some hard copy files tomorrow - suffice it to say that the best TBR you can get with current technology using beryllium and highly enriched 6Li is about 1.3 in real tests - and the actual neutron (n,2n) ratio for any reasonable amount of heavy water is slightly underunity - for the reasons mentioned above. Millibarn cross sections allow for much unpredictability, in general, and it is tough to build a breeder on that kind of rarity - you could actually get a full neutron decay before a (n,2n) multiplication in "just" heavy water - with no lithium. BTW - almost forgot - you CANNOT use dissolved lithium hydroxide in the blanket at all - as the T will preferentially displace a D in D2O and you will loose all of your precious tritium to tritiated heavy water - and it becomes such a small percentage that it is "effectively" lost. You must capture the bred T as a gas - from a porous metal, preferably and cannot let it even get close to water of any kind - as it immediately displaces a lighter hydrogen and is effectively lost. Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 12 21:10:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D5ALY1021081; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:10:32 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2D57MGm019849; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:07:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:07:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Internet blows CIA cover X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: ID = 8324edccdbae1c0007349b58b3c30403 Reply-To: michael.foster@excite.com From: "Michael Foster" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: michael.foster@excite.com X-Mailer: PHP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20060313050721.295FC109EFF@xprdmailfe1.nwk.excite.com> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 00:07:21 -0500 (EST) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66975 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred wrote: > Any Vortex subscribers-lurkers names there, Bill? > http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/03/12/0353200 > http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/politics/14076456.htm > I have my suspicions about a certain party that uses a "handle". :-) I'm sure there are lotsa strange lurkers on this list, possibly just archive readers instead of subscribers. You might remember when I told of a low-budget electromagnetic lead isotope separation method. After that, I got a few off-list messages from current and former LANL and Livermore guys, more or less hinting that maybe I shouldn't talk about it. There was also an odd message from a domain that turned out to be the Marriot hotel in Langley. Been wearin' my tinfoil hat ever since :) Any of you other Vorts? M. _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 12 21:21:02 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2D5Kk2s026911; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:20:47 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2D5Kjew026874; Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:20:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:20:45 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Titania nano tubes Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:20:42 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <5iu912h3l473b0bek1vv0drb38aov3i240@4ax.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta02ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:20:41 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2D5Kf8t026806 Resent-Message-ID: <2_GLmB.A.wjG.sEQFEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66976 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, About a month ago I wrote to Dr. Grimes suggesting that he check to see if there was a temperature rise when his titania tube material (22 nm tubes; see http://www.physlink.com/News/072903TitaniaNanotubes.cfm) was exposed to H2 gas. On Saturday I sent a query, to which I then received the following reply, which I now forward to this group (with his permission). Is anyone here interested in doing an infra-red measurement on this material when exposed to H2 gas? If so, then I will choose one or two, and arrange for Dr. Grimes to send a sample to test. His web site is http://www.ee.psu.edu/grimes/ . On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:42:29 -0500, Craig Grimes wrote: >Hi Robin > >Actually things are so hectic we're not able to pursue many other >projects. If you the equipment to do the test I can send some >nanotube array samples to you for testing. Thanks, Craig > > >>Dear Dr. Grimes, >> >>It's been a little while since last I annoyed you, so I thought I >>would just drop in for moment to see if you had made any progress >>on detecting heat from the 22 nm tubes? >> >>Regards, >> >>Robin van Spaandonk Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 02:37:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DAar1Y017079; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 02:36:53 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2DAamP9017048; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 02:36:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 02:36:48 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Science exposes Hot Fusion weaknesses: March 11, 2006 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 21:36:39 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <52da12t77dpnis8ftrodv4b3st5ttqg9af@4ax.com> References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060311120104.02a522b0@mail.newenergytimes.com> <92p612193s9hdu2p09kcjlqj3tvs5h971e@4ax.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20060311161822.028b8f48@mail.newenergytimes.com> <002301c645f1$c7385330$6401a8c0@NuDell> <007301c64633$80583a60$6401a8c0@NuDell> <009201c64647$d1912310$6401a8c0@NuDell> In-Reply-To: <009201c64647$d1912310$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta01sl.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:36:40 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2DAafBT017020 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66977 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Jones Beene's message of Sun, 12 Mar 2006 18:42:48 -0800: Hi Jones, [snip] >Hi Robin, > >You said: According to >http://atom.kaeri.re.kr/cgi-bin/nuclide?nuc=H-2&n=2 >the (n,2n) cross section for 14 MeV neutrons on D is 177 mb > >That sounds about right - but this is very low - and if memory >serves this is actually about the same as the capture >cross-section of oxygen for thermals - and you know how rare that >is - plus since you get many more collisions at thermal energy - >you will actually loose neutrons to the oxygen of heavy water >faster than you can make extra neutrons via (n,2n) The thermal neutrons are not really the problem, because they get grabbed by the Li long before anything else gets them. However what I did neglect to take into account are the competing reactions with Oxygen for the high energy neutrons. I.e. (n,p) Cross Section * at 14 MeV = 43.70 mb * Fission spectrum avg. = 20.26 micro barn (n,d) Cross Section * at 14 MeV = 15.40 mb * Fission spectrum avg. = 3.888 micro barn (n,alpha) Cross Section * at 14 MeV = 109.0 mb There is also (n,na) Cross Section * at 14 MeV = 36.61 mb These add up to 204.7. mb. Still there are 2 deuterons for every oxygen. The elastic scattering cross section for O16 @ 14 MeV is ~ 900 mb. So there's about a 19% chance that a fast neutron will be destroyed by oxygen during a collision with oxygen. That cuts into our supply of fast neutrons. > >> IOW we should get about 1.5 thermal neutrons out for every fast > >> neutron going in, and nearly all of the thermal neutrons are >> going >> to produce T. This should still be a breeder. > >Taking the ratio of the two - as you did is just a ballpark calc - >and not the correct way to figure it - Indeed, I miscalculated this anyway. Even using the same assumptions, it should only have been about 39%, not 47%. But that wasn't taking the oxygen reactions into account. The margin keeps getting slimmer. >but I will have to get the >experimental data out of some hard copy files tomorrow - suffice >it to say that the best TBR you can get with current technology >using beryllium and highly enriched 6Li is about 1.3 in real >tests - That sounds about right. >and the actual neutron (n,2n) ratio for any reasonable >amount of heavy water is slightly underunity - for the reasons >mentioned above. This sounds like it might be a figure for pure heavy water, not a Li6 solution. IOW in pure heavy water, at least some of the thermal neutrons will eventually be absorbed uselessly. > >Millibarn cross sections allow for much unpredictability, in >general, and it is tough to build a breeder on that kind of >rarity - you could actually get a full neutron decay before a >(n,2n) multiplication in "just" heavy water - with no lithium. While technically true of course, I don't think this would make a significant impact on statistics. Even at only thermal energies, on average a neutron would undergo hundreds of trillions of collisions before decaying (7E14). The chances of being swallowed whole by anything at some point during those trillions of collisions is so close to certainty, as to trivialize the importance of decay. With Li6 in the water, it is even more trivial. > >BTW - almost forgot - you CANNOT use dissolved lithium hydroxide >in the blanket at all - as the T will preferentially displace a D >in D2O and you will loose all of your precious tritium to >tritiated heavy water - and it becomes such a small percentage >that it is "effectively" lost. This may be possible anyway, depending on the actual amount of heavy water present. A very rough calculation yields a concentration of about 1/1000 after a year of operation. It should be possible to extract this, much as D is currently extracted from normal water. However I have no idea what percentage would be lost in the process. Besides, about 5-10% of the T would also decay in that year. (No one cares how much D is lost when producing heavy water). Bottom line, I still think this may be marginally possible, but it would require more detailed analysis to be sure, and of course real experimental evidence already gained doesn't hurt. ;) [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 03:08:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DB8kKq000489; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 03:08:46 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2DB8iM3000474; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 03:08:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 03:08:44 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-IronPort-AV: i="4.02,186,1139155200"; d="scan'208"; a="679985736:sNHT12881056" Message-ID: <441552B9.2060006@iinet.net.au> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:08:41 +1100 From: Wesley Bruce User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Science exposes Hot Fusion weaknesses: March 11, 2006 References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060311120104.02a522b0@mail.newenergytimes.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20060311120104.02a522b0@mail.newenergytimes.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66978 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Steven Krivit wrote: > Who has ever seen a major science journal expose the flaws of hot > fusion in such a straightforward and raw manner? > > Is this as new as it appears to me? > > > If you are interested, I'll send you the article. > > > Steve Send it to me. I've got an interest in that question. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 05:32:37 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DDWBgb006721; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:32:12 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2DDW8N5006681; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:32:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 05:32:08 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=FE19Q9mvUMpgAWxnH72IPgpbn1L99lQ3SwQ2JZ9D/WUBS2OaNtcOAAOj0UlFWz5A; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200631131332230@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electronium (*e-) Quest, Moseley & Auger Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:32:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94059634e656839484aa687fd118459128e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.242 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66979 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/quantum/moseley.html Search for Anomalies after Positron Irradiation?: Compton Scattering? http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/quantum/comptint.html And measure energy of occasionally emitted Auger Electrons? http://www.chem.qmul.ac.uk/surfaces/scc/scat5_2.htm "The ionized atom that remains after the removal of the core hole electron is, of course, in a highly excited state and will rapidly relax back to a lower energy state by one of two routes : " X-ray fluorescence , or Auger emission "In general, since the initial ionisation is non-selective and the initial hole may therefore be in various shells, there will be many possible Auger transitions for a given element - some weak, some strong in intensity. AUGER SPECTROSCOPY is based upon the measurement of the kinetic energies of the emitted electrons. Each element in a sample being studied will give rise to a characteristic spectrum of peaks at various kinetic energies." ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
 
Search for Anomalies after Positron Irradiation?:
 
Compton Scattering?
 
 
And measure energy of occasionally emitted Auger Electrons?
 
 
"The ionized atom that remains after the removal of the core hole electron is, of course, in a highly excited state
and will rapidly relax back to a lower energy state by one of two routes : "
  1. X-ray fluorescence , or
  2. Auger emission
"In general, since the initial ionisation is non-selective and the initial hole may therefore be in various shells, there will be many possible Auger transitions for a given element - some weak, some strong in intensity. AUGER SPECTROSCOPY is based upon the measurement of the kinetic energies of the emitted electrons. Each element in a sample being studied will give rise to a characteristic spectrum of peaks at various kinetic energies."
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 06:43:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DEhcIk018849; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:43:39 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2DEhRYB018743; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:43:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:43:27 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:43:22 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C814C39CAE5374-2768-91C7@mblkn-m09.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: The Cosmic Landscape Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.73 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2DEhPgb018721 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66980 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Excellent review of Leonard Susskind's book: http://www.fourmilab.ch/fourmilog/archives/2006-03/000664.html excerpt: "Susskind is eloquent in describing why the discovery that the cosmological constant, which virtually every theoretical physicist would have bet had to be precisely zero, is (apparently) a small tiny positive number, seemingly fine tuned to one hundred and twenty decimal places "hit us like the proverbial ton of bricks" (p. 185)-here was a number which, not only did theory suggest should be 120 orders of magnitude greater, but which, had it been slightly larger than its minuscule value, would have precluded structure formation (and hence life) in the universe." Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 07:03:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DF08pq029355; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:02:58 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2DEuw4X027941; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:56:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:56:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:56:46 -0500 Message-Id: <8C814C57C229F4A-2768-9240@mblkn-m09.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <8C814C39CAE5374-2768-91C7@mblkn-m09.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <8C814C39CAE5374-2768-91C7@mblkn-m09.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: The Cosmic Landscape Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.73 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2DEuoQ0027845 Resent-Message-ID: <4Zt5S.A.K0G.3gYFEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66981 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: hohlrauml6d Excellent review of Leonard Susskind's book:    http://www.fourmilab.ch/fourmilog/archives/2006-03/000664.html  <><><><><><><> "Landscape" actually concurs with my personal theory of how there can be an Omniscient Being but we mere humans still have freedom of choice. Each time one makes a choice one follows a particular branch of the multiverse. Or as Susskind puts it, the multiverse branches each time we make a quantum measurement. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 07:05:54 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DF5QNZ032014; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:05:26 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2DF5MaO031974; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:05:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:05:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060313095813.034c1688@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:05:20 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Hydrogen from electrolysis versus gasoline In-Reply-To: <1de9129fu3as5lomvfdasr5ljnvrjhpuie@4ax.com> References: <005d01c64463$66d0f860$6401a8c0@NuDell> <7.0.1.0.2.20060310160457.03471b68@mindspring.com> <004201c64494$f3b7dec0$6401a8c0@NuDell> <7.0.1.0.2.20060310181723.035cbb50@mindspring.com> <1de9129fu3as5lomvfdasr5ljnvrjhpuie@4ax.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <7I3Wi.A.czH.yoYFEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66982 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >you would > >continue to supply some electricity with quick response > >load-balancing generators, which I suppose would be natural gas turbines. > >I don't really see the need for this. Current which is being >diverted through an electrolysis cell can very rapidly be >redirected to the grid almost effortlessly. . . . > >Or were you referring to times when no wind was blowing? Exactly right. Or when too much wind is blowing, and the turbines have to be feathered. No matter how many turbines you erect, I doubt you could ensure they always meet 100% of demand. Actually, instead of natural gas, the obvious choice would be hydrogen turbines. I should have thought of that! Old assumptions often blind us to obvious solutions. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 07:17:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DFGvB1005930; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:16:57 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2DFGuqs005924; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:16:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:16:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=f1Fd3JFMksdbWUKquFfhJSl3h6nYfKbTy7yHDYVsGrXmU2Zw8MBa2pjuybo3cfm2; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063113151634639@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electronium (*e-) Quest, Moseley & Auger Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:16:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9408cc9fbc13a7954036c946178a6ac140f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.185 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66983 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII More clues? http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRB/v38/i16/p11927_1 Received 24 August 1988 "The total secondary-electron yield from positron and electron bombardment with incident energy 20-480 eV on Ni(110), Si(111), and MgO(100) has been measured. The positron-induced and electron-induced secondary-electron yield fit the same "universal" curve but with different scaling parameters. Comparison of the secondary yields suggests that the positron primary beam experiences stronger energy-loss processes than the electron beam in Ni, and qualitatively agrees with calculations and other experiments. The ratio of the maximum electron-induced secondary yield to the positron-induced secondary yield is 0.79, 1.26, and 0.6 for Ni, Si, and MgO, respectively." ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 3/13/2006 6:32:56 AM Subject: Re: Electronium (*e-) Quest, Moseley & Auger http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/quantum/moseley.html Search for Anomalies after Positron Irradiation?: Compton Scattering? http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/quantum/comptint.html And measure energy of occasionally emitted Auger Electrons? http://www.chem.qmul.ac.uk/surfaces/scc/scat5_2.htm "The ionized atom that remains after the removal of the core hole electron is, of course, in a highly excited state and will rapidly relax back to a lower energy state by one of two routes : " X-ray fluorescence , or Auger emission "In general, since the initial ionisation is non-selective and the initial hole may therefore be in various shells, there will be many possible Auger transitions for a given element - some weak, some strong in intensity. AUGER SPECTROSCOPY is based upon the measurement of the kinetic energies of the emitted electrons. Each element in a sample being studied will give rise to a characteristic spectrum of peaks at various kinetic energies." ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
More clues?
 
 
Received 24 August 1988
"The total secondary-electron yield from positron and electron bombardment with incident energy 20-480 eV on Ni(110), Si(111), and MgO(100) has been measured. The positron-induced and electron-induced secondary-electron yield fit the same "universal" curve but with different scaling parameters. Comparison of the secondary yields suggests that the positron primary beam experiences stronger energy-loss processes than the electron beam in Ni, and qualitatively agrees with calculations and other experiments. The ratio of the maximum electron-induced secondary yield to the positron-induced secondary yield is 0.79, 1.26, and 0.6 for Ni, Si, and MgO, respectively."
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 3/13/2006 6:32:56 AM
Subject: Re: Electronium (*e-) Quest, Moseley & Auger

 
Search for Anomalies after Positron Irradiation?:
 
Compton Scattering?
 
 
And measure energy of occasionally emitted Auger Electrons?
 
 
"The ionized atom that remains after the removal of the core hole electron is, of course, in a highly excited state
and will rapidly relax back to a lower energy state by one of two routes : "
  1. X-ray fluorescence , or
  2. Auger emission
"In general, since the initial ionisation is non-selective and the initial hole may therefore be in various shells, there will be many possible Auger transitions for a given element - some weak, some strong in intensity. AUGER SPECTROSCOPY is based upon the measurement of the kinetic energies of the emitted electrons. Each element in a sample being studied will give rise to a characteristic spectrum of peaks at various kinetic energies."
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 07:43:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DFh7LY021629; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:43:08 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2DFh488021592; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:43:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:43:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=pacbell.net; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Ip5g6u4GQLyrQajCmTaks/on5EQGVL4bYcWfZRPYYHjxnNPeB2hQjTLOdAncpQn4Kv53fOzZhMtGIv6494LokUL4YTJO8wFxxm+eh2OlRhtzsodIYRsMvIKITasYzmwUxm88wqomjMk2DcfPCwdaEHOL2MRJlt45f/wXfc2ienk= ; Message-ID: <20060313154300.37930.qmail@web81101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:43:00 -0800 (PST) From: Jones Beene Subject: Re: Titania nano tubes To: vortex-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <5iu912h3l473b0bek1vv0drb38aov3i240@4ax.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66984 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin, > About a month ago I wrote to Dr. Grimes suggesting > that he check to see if there was a temperature rise when his titania tube material (22 nm tubes; see http://www.physlink.com/News/072903TitaniaNanotubes.cfm) > was exposed to H2 gas. This is most interesting - and even more so since the SEM at 200 nm resolution makes the tubes look more like the cavity is 40-50 nm instead of smaller. No doubt you are pusuing the notion that a 27.2 eV energy "hole" is functionally identical to a "real" hole of approximately the same wavelength - and coincidentally or not - these seem to fit the bill. Not ot mention the special catalytic properties of titanium (Mizuno and MAHG) and titania might be even better as due to its favorable band gap. I will try to help to arrange some IR testing, as I will be going over to Cal. this week to a lab that should have the proper spectrometer. Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 07:49:00 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DFmVvA025116; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:48:31 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2DFmQ2n025059; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:48:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:48:26 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=pacbell.net; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=IDwM0NzM3F0QBJnEjHRex0UKNm9xEhInJIgRxYiWJFGzkpRgyKCPSiuLqTe3SRZeb/5q0Ov8dH+EzrU46t/jTckhlTeyGeXb2PlHGsOWW6itytNVEh05/h/+NVNZ8UY0lrkovgfHEplcStkpNIYR0Lb5xsJHzqxClx3NdkVJPUI= ; Message-ID: <20060313154823.81968.qmail@web81112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:48:23 -0800 (PST) From: Jones Beene Subject: Re: Titania nano tubes To: vortex-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <20060313154300.37930.qmail@web81101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66985 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Oops > Not ot mention the special catalytic properties of titanium (Mizuno and MAHG) ... err ... that was tungsten, and I haven't downed my first expresso yet .... but of course titania has shown favorable excess energy results in LENR experiments. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 07:51:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DFpYSJ027665; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:51:35 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2DFpUf8027620; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:51:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:51:30 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=O8auK2nrRtMiV2UpfPlv4+4JE9l0GqR9AWNAKCo6Z/DaecNRPS8WZK1BwWaeCpMA; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063113155123730@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electronium (*e-) & Sodium-22 Laced Electrolysis Cells Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:51:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940b6961ad4e7fedf0a4887326e93e5b457350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.50 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66986 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Jones. Would you consider using a few millimoles of the strong Positron Emitter Na-22 (~ 2.5 year half-life) in electrolysis cells with Titanium, Nickel, or Palladium cathodes a "from the top down" approach? How many millicuries would you be handling, if they let you buy it? Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Jones.
 
Would you consider using a few millimoles of the strong Positron Emitter Na-22
(~ 2.5 year half-life) in electrolysis cells with Titanium, Nickel, or Palladium
cathodes a "from the top down" approach?
 
How many millicuries would you be handling, if they let you buy it?
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 08:05:18 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DG4l7J003095; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:04:47 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2DG4j0J003082; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:04:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:04:45 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=pacbell.net; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=WU5McyJTeiZykDA1gKl21WTbeoFPQVsLqAD7oZrDeSdr9ELeUTngFc6qqgGapNkRwLs4CB8K06Xy2IZ7qcn0C3Zb7g0f6jE+h4sx27mmwP1MQz5FP/sBPH23XJUwyINA9rBTqqSy6zQnG3/D91eGlNJxzRWdbUkv8Aa0zKBL88k= ; Message-ID: <20060313160443.75491.qmail@web81109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:04:43 -0800 (PST) From: Jones Beene Subject: Re: Electronium (*e-) & Sodium-22 Laced Electrolysis Cells To: vortex In-Reply-To: <410-220063113155123730@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66988 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --- Fred Hmm... because of PET testing, these are not too hard to come by in small doses for an MD - but are you suggesting just to add some to a working cell to see what happens? > Would you consider using a few millimoles of the > strong Positron Emitter Na-22 > (~ 2.5 year half-life) in electrolysis cells with > Titanium, Nickel, or Palladium > cathodes a "from the top down" approach? > > How many millicuries would you be handling, if they > let you buy it? > > Fred From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 08:22:20 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DFxfSu000379; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:59:42 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2DFxaAM032751; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:59:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:59:36 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=pacbell.net; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=VavedfENQjhRE1qZ5iUv2kTIuWE/GooH2w9y4l8g+k/Jqm/dvevvSLCeKaSHQcAezesuGg2C8ojXLH5rGYimRYLgwyhXfN6zLwFVjBp9kENDO2eFtkbL0uYBcofcdzEubP2X4HzryIV/CMh3ia9ePDJK+pCCF3t3Fgc7rO5YBig= ; Message-ID: <20060313155933.30876.qmail@web81103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:59:33 -0800 (PST) From: Jones Beene Subject: Re: Internet blows CIA cover To: vortex In-Reply-To: <20060313050721.295FC109EFF@xprdmailfe1.nwk.excite.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66987 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --- Michael > There was also an odd message from a domain that turned out to be the Marriot hotel in Langley. Ha! Some time ago I got a lot of weird attemts at accessing my computer, over and over, from two different Marriot hotels in N. Va. This was back when the firewall records were easier to get at. Nowadays, it is too much of a hassle (maybe that is intentional too) Keith told me it was probably just some hackers and not anything to worry about. Hmm ... now I'm wondring if K. is the mole! Seriously, though, I am wondering about the connection to Marriot Hotels ... that is not your corporate culture of a hotbed of hacking, but do they have these spy-vs-spy kind of ties at the corporate level to you-know-who, or is it just a convenient place for Valerie et al. to hang out while she is writing-off the tryst-charges ... to uncover a majore national conspiracy on a public forum, no less ??? Ha! if they take anything seriously here, they will be looking for aliens next... From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 08:31:54 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DGVYep020075; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:31:34 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2DGVXLm020051; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:31:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:31:33 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=N2o6hZeS9CVCO/kFIj07wbA9uFzvaoeUIcMPo1E11x/x/VysRv54YA749Tz/rD9O; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063113163122190@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electronium (*e-) & Sodium-22 Laced Electrolysis Cells Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:31:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94096ff4a7223201843e929a0163dfa2e52350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.165.21 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66989 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: : Jones > > --- Fred > > Hmm... because of PET testing, these are not too hard > to come by in small doses for an MD - but are you > suggesting just to add some to a working cell to see > what happens? > Yes, why not try the direct approach? > > > Would you consider using a few millimoles of the > > strong Positron Emitter Na-22 > > (~ 2.5 year half-life) in electrolysis cells with > > Titanium, Nickel, or Palladium > > cathodes a "from the top down" approach? > > > > How many millicuries would you be handling, if they > > let you buy it? > > > > Fred From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 09:38:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DHbnAw027006; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:37:49 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2DHbkja026965; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:37:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:37:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <003d01c646c3$e6c38c60$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex-l" References: <410-220063012173319504@earthlink.net> Subject: OT: Fred & the full Moon Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:31:01 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: <-8ZWmC.A.PlG.q3aFEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66990 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred, >Johnny Carson read my note to him to the world on this back in >May of 1981 it replayed on "Best of Carson" a couple of years >later. My phone didn't stop ringing for days after. :-) Wait-a-minute ? What is the back-story on this one, Fred? You sent a funny note to Carson about Moon Phases in '81, and he read it on his show - and mentioned your name? Fantastic. Great story... & if you want to spice it up scientificaly for the grandkids....Moon-Trivia from The "Did You Know Department" The moon is moving away from earth at a rate of 1.5 inches per year. The surface area of the moon is ~10 billion acres. About 59 percent of the moon's surface is visible from earth. Only a dozen or so humans have seen it all. The moon is not round, but distored into an egg-shaped by earth's gravity, with the fat end pointed towards earth. The earth rotates about 1000 mph. By comparison, the moon rotates about 10 mph in sync so only one side is visible. There is no real "dark side" especially during a "full earth" The New Moon always rises at sunrise. The Full Moon always rises at sunset. Distance From Earth: 225,745 miles Length of a Day: 27.3 days Radius: 1,080 miles Diameter: 2,160 miles Weight: 81 Quintillion Tons Surface Temp (Day): 273° F Surface Temp (Night): - 244° F Gravity At Surface: 0.1667 g (1/6 Earth's) Orbital Speed 2,287 mph Driving time by car (@70 mph): 135 days Flying time by rocket: 60 to 70 hrs. No. of Men known to Have Walked on Surface: 12 Rock samples collected & returned by Apollo: 842 pounds Widest Crater: 140 miles (dia.) Highest Mountains: 16,000+ (ft.) From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 09:58:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DHwMFP007625; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:58:23 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2DHwK4U007603; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:58:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:58:20 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Cj3YL2dhuhIU/2V55LKs+jtnA734LIDX3BIh5sxYeSrDxnkj0hojOHbEu08OcIxY; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200631131758959@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electronium (*e-) & Sodium-22 Laced Electrolysis Cells Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:58:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9407ed0eba6e3adb597a778eddbb65d5398350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.131 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66991 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I was told that Sodium-22 is in the air we breathe and the water we drink. The tables in this link gives one pause to consider doing such an experiment in the kitchen when Sodium-22 runs about 10 Curies per gram. http://www.in.gov/isdh/regsvcs/radhealth/rules/410_iac_5-4.htm OTOH, Potassium-40 in the KCl supplements is a bit safer. :-) Fred > [Original Message] > From: Frederick Sparber > To: > Date: 3/13/2006 9:32:12 AM > Subject: Re: Electronium (*e-) & Sodium-22 Laced Electrolysis Cells > > : Jones > > > > --- Fred > > > > Hmm... because of PET testing, these are not too hard > > to come by in small doses for an MD - but are you > > suggesting just to add some to a working cell to see > > what happens? > > > Yes, why not try the direct approach? > > > > > Would you consider using a few millimoles of the > > > strong Positron Emitter Na-22 > > > (~ 2.5 year half-life) in electrolysis cells with > > > Titanium, Nickel, or Palladium > > > cathodes a "from the top down" approach? > > > > > > How many millicuries would you be handling, if they > > > let you buy it? > > > > > > Fred > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 10:00:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DI00fc008769; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:00:00 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2DHxvVE008745; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:59:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:59:57 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:59:51 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C814DF0F61C282-1FB0-93DE@mblkn-m03.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <20060313155933.30876.qmail@web81103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Internet blows CIA cover Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.67 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66992 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene JB: Hmm ... now I'm wondring if K. is the mole! TB: Naaa. He sent me piccys of his cat. Cats eat moles. JB: Ha! if they take anything seriously here, they will be looking for aliens next... TB: They already have them. T (former moderator for Mutual UFO Network on CompuServe) ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 10:14:56 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DIEao4019086; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:14:37 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2DIEXLI019056; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:14:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:14:33 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: Internet blows CIA cover Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:22:54 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <8C814DF0F61C282-1FB0-93DE@mblkn-m03.sysops.aol.com> X-Rcpt-To: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66993 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The cat is my controller. Damn you, Internets! You've blown my cover! Hey Jones, post the logs. I'd like to see what a CIA laptop looks like after it's been 0wned by a script kiddie. K. -----Original Message----- From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net [mailto:hohlrauml6d@netscape.net] Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 1:00 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Internet blows CIA cover -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene JB: Hmm ... now I'm wondring if K. is the mole! TB: Naaa. He sent me piccys of his cat. Cats eat moles. JB: Ha! if they take anything seriously here, they will be looking for aliens next... TB: They already have them. T (former moderator for Mutual UFO Network on CompuServe) ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 10:35:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DIZ8EH030607; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:35:12 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2DIZ7cl030583; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:35:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:35:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=ZWDajsPk+42u6AHi2uY0KQUw8H1eGG1i3u5AEaNabVB6rqOf6oy+RtjGRZHbFexr; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006311318354204@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: OT: Fred & the full Moon Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:35:04 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9408d73fe5257db5291f727d9d898bcd4d0350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.131 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66994 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I had been talking to the radio telescope people in Massachusetts about the possibility of the full moon giving off some sort of radiation that could affect the Pineal and moods. They said they used the full moon as a "calibration check." A local astronomy professor had told me that the full moon acts as a 300 deg K blackbody radiator, hence there are terahertz (10 to 100 micrometers) wavelengths that can possibly do this during the ~29 day full moon "spike". Johnny Carson was a strong believer in the effects of the full moon on the behavior of his audiences, so when he commented "when there is a heavy cloud cover during the full moon the behavior is more normal". McMahon said "when a tree falls in the woods and no one sees it, it doesn't make a sound". Just for the heck of it I sent him a mailgram, figuring it would go in the out basket. Lo and behold the next night I got phone calls about an hour or so before his program airs in this time zone telling me that J.C. (Richard Pryor & George Carlin were guests) read my note and was arguing with McMahon about whether or not Frederick Sparber in Belen, New Mexico was "a fake". This prompted people from all over the US and Canada to call information to get my phone number. Even Satellite providers asked if their GHz downfeed was going to affect people in an adverse way. The jury is still out on what the elusive 10 -30 terahertz (laser) frequencies that are being touted for medical use and through-the-wall surveilence will do to moods. BTW. many plant species use the lunar cycle in their "sex life". Fred > [Original Message] > From: Jones Beene > To: vortex-l > Date: 3/13/2006 10:38:38 AM > Subject: OT: Fred & the full Moon > > Fred, > > >Johnny Carson read my note to him to the world on this back in > >May of 1981 it replayed on "Best of Carson" a couple of years > >later. My phone didn't stop ringing for days after. :-) > > > Wait-a-minute ? What is the back-story on this one, Fred? > > You sent a funny note to Carson about Moon Phases in '81, and he > read it on his show - and mentioned your name? > > Fantastic. Great story... & if you want to spice it up > scientificaly for the grandkids....Moon-Trivia from The "Did You > Know Department" > > The moon is moving away from earth at a rate of 1.5 inches per > year. > > The surface area of the moon is ~10 billion acres. > > About 59 percent of the moon's surface is visible from earth. Only > a dozen or so humans have seen it all. > > The moon is not round, but distored into an egg-shaped by earth's > gravity, with the fat end pointed towards earth. > > The earth rotates about 1000 mph. By comparison, the moon rotates > about 10 mph in sync so only one side is visible. > > There is no real "dark side" especially during a "full earth" > > The New Moon always rises at sunrise. > > The Full Moon always rises at sunset. > > Distance From Earth: 225,745 miles > > Length of a Day: 27.3 days > > Radius: 1,080 miles > > Diameter: 2,160 miles > > Weight: 81 Quintillion Tons > > Surface Temp (Day): 273° F > > Surface Temp (Night): - 244° F > > Gravity At Surface: 0.1667 g (1/6 Earth's) > > Orbital Speed 2,287 mph > > Driving time by car (@70 mph): 135 days > > Flying time by rocket: 60 to 70 hrs. > > No. of Men known to Have Walked on Surface: 12 > > Rock samples collected & returned by Apollo: 842 pounds > > Widest Crater: 140 miles (dia.) > > Highest Mountains: 16,000+ (ft.) From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 11:22:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DJMOJp027471; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:22:24 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2DJMMVo027444; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:22:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:22:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060313141317.035f0930@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:22:12 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Spoof articles about cold fusion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66995 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Someone who knows about Ed Storms, Dennis Cravens and others is writing pretend news stories. These are actually pretty funny, and not nasty. See: http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s6i10331 "Disco Opens Cold Fusion Olympic Games Written by Ferrer Crowds were waiting for more sunshine TURIN, Italy (UPDATE) -- Four cold fusion scientists were suspended, and the world's top-ranked calorimetrist, the British Martin Fleischmann, was barred from the Cold Fusion Olympic Games here on Friday. Hours later, Olympic competitors marched into the opening ceremony to the sounds of disco music. . . . Ed Storms, a nuclear chemist who has trained hard for this years' Olympic event back in mountains near Sante Fe, is known for his calorimetric free style and was reported to have said "see you back in the states" when he heard the disappointing news that disco was making a comeback." "I've heard enough of K.C and the Sunshine Band for one lifetime," Storms said. "I miss the rock and roll." This one is about Taleyarkhan: http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s5i10507 Missing 'Bubble Fusion' Locker with Cash Lights Up LAX . . . The missing radioactive locker was apparently headed to labs at UCLA and investigators are not sure why, since UCLA specializes in crystal fusion, not bubble fusion. Both are new forms of cold fusion, which occurs at or near room temperature conditions. The contents of the locker apparently contained a wide assortment of nuclear dual use items: chemicals, borrowed detection equipment, music CDs, iPods, liquid cooled PC parts, data acquisition cards and a large amount of cash. "Oh, and we also found a strange note that read : 'Tell Stan He's the Man', "said John Williams an LAX port official. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 11:25:56 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DJPe9n029427; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:25:40 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2DJPYUS029380; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:25:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:25:34 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:25:27 -0500 Message-Id: <8C814EB05034555-2680-1C69F@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <410-22006311318354204@earthlink.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <410-22006311318354204@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: OT: Fred & the full Moon Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.133 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66996 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Frederick Sparber BTW. many plant species use the lunar cycle in their "sex life". <><><><><><><> Yes, like Doris Day: By the light of the silvery moon I want to spoon To my honey I'll croon love's tune Honey moon, keep a-shinin' in June Your silv'ry beams will bring love's dreams We'll be cuddlin' soon By the silvery moon ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 11:54:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DJs5H7013340; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:54:06 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2DJs2L7013307; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:54:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:54:02 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <006d01c646d7$df509130$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060313141317.035f0930@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Spoof articles about cold fusion Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:53:59 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66997 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The writer, Ferrer, looks vaguely similar to a local politician: http://www.thespoof.com/profile.cfm?uID=3258 Hmm ... and if memory serves, and not being a name dropper, didn't SK post something rather similar to this with an Olympics twist ? ... perhaps he just forgot the attribution... or is being set-up by Putterman's grad student brigade. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 11:55:19 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DJslal013736; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:54:47 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2DJsggh013679; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:54:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:54:42 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060313145005.035f06b0@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:54:32 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Spoof articles about cold fusion - linked to real article in Wired In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060313141317.035f0930@mindspring.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060313141317.035f0930@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66998 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here is a pleasant surprise. The spoof article hyperlink for "Ed Storms" links to a real, highly positive story in Wired, from September 2005. I was not aware of this. See: http://wiredblogs.tripod.com/gadgets/index.blog?entry_id=1217543 Whoever this mystery author "Ferrer" is, he knows a thing or two about cold fusion. I suspect he is reading this message! He is reportedly in the UK. (Based on the humor, or humour, I think it is "he" but you never know, it could be Soo Seddon.) - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 11:59:24 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DJxBgJ016604; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:59:11 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2DJx8rg016579; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:59:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:59:08 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060313145716.0343c970@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:58:59 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: "The Economist" also links to us. Oops. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66999 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In this article: http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=5601570 I just noticed that on the right there is a link to LENR-CANR.org. Oops. I sent them a nasty letter the other day saying they should not "make light of" or "ignore" the true history of cold fusion. Well, their treatment was pretty bad, anyway. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 12:52:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DKqOtM014372; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:52:24 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2DKqGh3014292; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:52:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:52:16 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060313095813.034c1688@mindspring.com> References: <005d01c64463$66d0f860$6401a8c0@NuDell> <7.0.1.0.2.20060310160457.03471b68@mindspring.com> <004201c64494$f3b7dec0$6401a8c0@NuDell> <7.0.1.0.2.20060310181723.035cbb50@mindspring.com> <1de9129fu3as5lomvfdasr5ljnvrjhpuie@4ax.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060313095813.034c1688@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <5C5C5A15-73BF-4740-9D25-DF3AEA1E6114@mtaonline.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Hydrogen from electrolysis versus gasoline Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:52:04 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67000 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mar 13, 2006, at 6:05 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > >> you would >> >continue to supply some electricity with quick response >> >load-balancing generators, which I suppose would be natural gas >> turbines. >> >> I don't really see the need for this. Current which is being >> diverted through an electrolysis cell can very rapidly be >> redirected to the grid almost effortlessly. . . . >> >> Or were you referring to times when no wind was blowing? > > Exactly right. Or when too much wind is blowing, and the turbines > have to be feathered. No matter how many turbines you erect, I > doubt you could ensure they always meet 100% of demand. > > Actually, instead of natural gas, the obvious choice would be > hydrogen turbines. I should have thought of that! Old assumptions > often blind us to obvious solutions. > > - Jed > Large volume hydrogen transmission, distribution and storage are fairly obvious problems to any engineer serious about a hydrogen economy. The fact so little attention is being given to these things is a clear indication government policy is not currently aimed at developing a true hydrogen economy. See: http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/Hpipeline.pdf Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 12:59:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DKxEMe017422; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:59:15 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2DKxC06017404; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:59:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:59:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=KZG8L9w+6bHohOQ95sjQDRFZ1aAJQD9rE3TdnhVCcK3BQ+3MeHHIq8ZuWoKI97I1MBYFg8FLzkvZW5dbCr1FuDWPVDFneg3a6eaV/i3cmDonA1FEfAqhXW0FqHWg8nRcM/bOCKZuMaF7yP0m3QuKph3UUa1BpEkCW7p3lxZeBHA= Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:59:10 -0700 From: "leaking pen" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydrogen from electrolysis versus gasoline In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060310160457.03471b68@mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_25105_17165296.1142283550685" References: <005d01c64463$66d0f860$6401a8c0@NuDell> <7.0.1.0.2.20060310160457.03471b68@mindspring.com> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67001 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_Part_25105_17165296.1142283550685 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline whoops, watch your units. is that the mj per gallon of gas, or per kg? On 3/10/06, Jed Rothwell wrote: > > Jones Beene wrote: > > >Nuclear energy has heretofore been the most likely way, and GE is in > >on that avenue also. Splitting water using electricity from energy > >sources such as wind, solar, OTEC, waves or tidal flow is too > >expensive to be practical. > > It would not be expensive according to my calculations -- see below. > The energy cost works out to ~$3.39 per gallon of gasline equivalent. > Perhaps the cost of capital equipment would add significantly to that. > > > >Researchers at GE now are claiming a less expensive process to > >directly produce hydrogen via electrolysis for about $3 per > >kilogram. One kg of H2 is comparable to a gallon of gasoline in energy . > . . > > Is it? Lessee . . . The heat of formation of water 285,800 joules per > mole . . . There are 2 g of H per mole of water, multiply by 1000 to > make a kilogram . . . 143 MJ, versus 132 MJ/kg of gasoline. Yes, that's > close. > > Okay, getting back to the energy cost, assume wind powered > electricity costs $0.06/kWh unsubsidized (without PTC). Electrolysis > circa 1990 was 65% efficient. See the document I mentioned yesterday > for details: > > http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/NRELenergyover.pdf > > Okay, 1 gallon gasoline has 132 MJ =3D 36.67 kWh. > > Divide by 65% to get 56.42 kWh input energy > > 56.42 kWh * $0.06 =3D $3.39 > > As Beene pointed out hydrogen is probably somewhat more efficient > than gasoline in an ICE. (It would be 3 times more efficient used in > a fuel-cell, but that is not of near-term development.) So if > gasoline goes over three dollars a gallon, it seems to me that > hydrogen generated with electrolysis should be competitive. > > I cannot imagine where GE came up with the cost of $8/kg for hydrogen. > > - Jed > > > -- "Monsieur l'abb=E9, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to ma= ke it possible for you to continue to write" Voltaire ------=_Part_25105_17165296.1142283550685 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline whoops, watch your units.  is that the mj per gallon of gas, or per kg= ?

On 3/10/06, = Jed Rothwell <JedRothw= ell@mindspring.com> wrote:
Jones Beene wrote:

>Nu= clear energy has heretofore been the most likely way, and GE is in
>o= n that avenue also. Splitting water using electricity from energy
>sources such as wind, solar, OTEC, waves or tidal flow is too
&g= t;expensive to be practical.

It would not be expensive according to = my calculations -- see below.
The energy cost works out to ~$3.39 per ga= llon of gasline equivalent.
Perhaps the cost of capital equipment would add significantly to that.<= br>

>Researchers at GE now are claiming a less expensive process = to
>directly produce hydrogen via electrolysis for about $3 per
>kilogram. One kg of H2 is comparable to a gallon of gasoline in energy = . . .

Is it? Lessee . . . The heat of formation of water 285,800 jou= les per
mole . . . There are 2 g of H per mole of water, multiply by 100= 0 to
make a kilogram . . . 143 MJ, versus 132 MJ/kg of gasoline. Yes, that's= close.

Okay, getting back to the energy cost, assume wind poweredelectricity costs $0.06/kWh unsubsidized (without PTC). Electrolysis
circa 1990 was 65% efficient. See the document I mentioned yesterday
for= details:

http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/NRELenergyover.pdf

Okay, 1 gallon= gasoline has 132 MJ =3D=20 36.67 kWh.

Divide by 65% to get 56.42 kWh input energy

56.42 = kWh * $0.06 =3D $3.39

As Beene pointed out hydrogen is probably some= what more efficient
than gasoline in an ICE. (It would be 3 times more e= fficient used in
a fuel-cell, but that is not of near-term development.) So if
gasoli= ne goes over three dollars a gallon, it seems to me that
hydrogen genera= ted with electrolysis should be competitive.

I cannot imagine where = GE came up with the cost of $8/kg for hydrogen.

- Jed





-- "Monsieur l'abb=E9, I detest what you write, but I would give my lif= e to make it possible for you to continue to write"  Voltair= e=20 ------=_Part_25105_17165296.1142283550685-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 13:00:19 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DKxwiW017953; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:59:58 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2DKxudA017922; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:59:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:59:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060313095813.034c1688@mindspring.com> References: <005d01c64463$66d0f860$6401a8c0@NuDell> <7.0.1.0.2.20060310160457.03471b68@mindspring.com> <004201c64494$f3b7dec0$6401a8c0@NuDell> <7.0.1.0.2.20060310181723.035cbb50@mindspring.com> <1de9129fu3as5lomvfdasr5ljnvrjhpuie@4ax.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060313095813.034c1688@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <168F6B72-FC0E-47E4-8B3D-DF92429DBE30@mtaonline.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Hydrogen from electrolysis versus gasoline Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:59:49 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: <40cLu.A.zXE.L1dFEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67002 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Another way to reduce sensitivity to wind and solar variability (which in many locations are nicely anti-correlated) is to control the demand side. See: http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/BusIdea.pdf Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 13:22:43 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DLMWYl031224; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:22:32 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2DLMQaM031164; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:22:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:22:26 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060313161326.03554e38@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:17:32 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Hydrogen from electrolysis versus gasoline In-Reply-To: References: <005d01c64463$66d0f860$6401a8c0@NuDell> <7.0.1.0.2.20060310160457.03471b68@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <0T9dID.A.1mH.RKeFEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67003 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Leaking pen wrote: >whoops, watch your units. is that the mj per gallon of gas, or per kg? That was supposed to say gasoline has 42 MJ/kg and 132 MJ/gallon. Gasoline is lighter than water, so 1 gallon weighs 3.1 kg. One U.S. gallon of water weighs 3.8 kg (same as liters - duh). - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 13:28:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DLRpWU001070; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:27:52 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2DLRlAx000987; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:27:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:27:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060313161743.03855068@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:26:49 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Hydrogen from electrolysis versus gasoline In-Reply-To: <5C5C5A15-73BF-4740-9D25-DF3AEA1E6114@mtaonline.net> References: <005d01c64463$66d0f860$6401a8c0@NuDell> <7.0.1.0.2.20060310160457.03471b68@mindspring.com> <004201c64494$f3b7dec0$6401a8c0@NuDell> <7.0.1.0.2.20060310181723.035cbb50@mindspring.com> <1de9129fu3as5lomvfdasr5ljnvrjhpuie@4ax.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060313095813.034c1688@mindspring.com> <5C5C5A15-73BF-4740-9D25-DF3AEA1E6114@mtaonline.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67004 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: >Large volume hydrogen transmission, distribution and storage are >fairly obvious problems to any engineer serious about a hydrogen >economy. Yup. That is why I said, "Actually, I would prefer to see them generate some sort of hydrogen based synthetic fuel . . ." Something liquid at room temperature such as LP gas would be ideal. Something with just a hint of carbon! -- and don't worry, a little sherbet between courses will cleanse the palate. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 13:35:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2DLZcLF005213; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:35:38 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2DLZZUG005184; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:35:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:35:35 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=RjbCnQsq9GEkbzufK9p5KJCPojv7HMNtGH5g6+F8qtdFKvUUMHl24kIeYiC9tWqLQ8MubtTQRuA3rwHwTJ1fl5Xt2oTncj50Tk+9kspQ7iMjkWARqsLWxioyM1c9cgb3Mbvc6Dj5pJcxwwzOnXg8dricObgW9eW2UeYCFtUiL3k= Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 14:35:31 -0700 From: "leaking pen" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydrogen from electrolysis versus gasoline In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060313161326.03554e38@mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_25557_21748546.1142285731866" References: <005d01c64463$66d0f860$6401a8c0@NuDell> <7.0.1.0.2.20060310160457.03471b68@mindspring.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060313161326.03554e38@mindspring.com> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67005 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_Part_25557_21748546.1142285731866 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline lol, i would hope water weighed the same in kg as it massed in liters. otherwise, we ahve a small problem. On 3/13/06, Jed Rothwell wrote: > > Leaking pen wrote: > > >whoops, watch your units. is that the mj per gallon of gas, or per kg? > > That was supposed to say gasoline has 42 MJ/kg and 132 MJ/gallon. > Gasoline is lighter than water, so 1 gallon weighs 3.1 kg. One U.S. > gallon of water weighs 3.8 kg (same as liters - duh). > > - Jed > > > -- "Monsieur l'abb=E9, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to ma= ke it possible for you to continue to write" Voltaire ------=_Part_25557_21748546.1142285731866 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline lol, i would hope water weighed the same in kg as it massed in liters. = ; otherwise, we ahve a small problem.

On 3/13/06, = Jed Rothwell <JedRothw= ell@mindspring.com> wrote:
Leaking pen wrote:

>wh= oops, watch your units.  is that the mj per gallon of gas, or per= kg?

That was supposed to say gasoline has 42 MJ/kg and 132 MJ/gallon.
Gasoli= ne is lighter than water, so 1 gallon weighs 3.1 kg. One U.S.
gallon of = water weighs 3.8 kg (same as liters - duh).

- Jed





--
"Monsieur l'abb=E9, I detest wh= at you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to conti= nue to write"  Voltaire=20 ------=_Part_25557_21748546.1142285731866-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 16:59:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2E0xLjL022948; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:59:22 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2E0xItL022924; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:59:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:59:18 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:59:09 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C81519A2D26D5B-2768-AD3A@mblkn-m09.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Message to Ross at Impulse Devices Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.73 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67006 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To Ross Tessien > Hi Ross, > > We are so delighted that a Vortexian has progressed so well! You are a frequent topic of discussion on the list. > > Recently (in light of the controversy), I saw your experimental setup on a news page. I continue on Vortex, and find that I have tolerated a Brit of the likes of Chris Tinsley to the point of listening to his rantings. I offer a post in December: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/msg10213.html > > <><><><><><><> > > Ooops! Fancy that! 8-) > Grimer > Fri, 16 Dec 2005 23:07:12 -0800 > > I've just realised one of the consequences > of the 3D Casimir Law. > > Stefan's fourth power law only presents a one > dimensional view of things. In fact the energy > density goes down according to (LAC)^(-12) where > LAC is Local Absolute Compreture and Compreture > is the reciprocal of temperature as measured > from the local "absolute" zero. > > That why the Vapour Pressure vs. temperature > is a twelfth power law. > > Oh dearie me. The physicists won't be pleased. > But I will certainly enjoy the schadenfreude. 8-) > > Cheers, > > Frank Grimer > > <><><><><><><> > > Now, Frank believes in a Beta-atmosphere, not unlike the Alpha-atmosphere which offers 14.7 lb/in^2 of compressive (attractive?) force. He even has a group on Yahoo: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Beta-atmosphere_group/ > > where the insane and inane might speculate on the aether. > > We were wondering if you might enjoy greater bubble energy by using multi-axial, synchronous transducers? > > Regards, > > Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 14:40:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29MeZp2008858; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 14:40:35 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k29MeWbr008835; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 14:40:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 14:40:32 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Sender:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=h00SG16r0uB09H3hHskRurLeTv9zfw3kUxum39KvVKgmlnVF92zZ6Y7dS3Ql9D8YRa3mT4D4zmH56zbZzn1Q4/JgOvX4B1V0V6HVS7oO5trg7nyWWHPtUwIAkuxZEmAHS+07e8lcNzQcQW124p5tXWYFAW7zIrdcWWO0wOETZtU= ; Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.1.20060309162500.01d54100@pop> X-Sender: philip.winestone@pop X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.1.1 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 17:39:29 -0500 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Philip Winestone Subject: Re: Farrell responds to Pimentel regarding ethanol In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060309161542.03580030@mindspring.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060309161542.03580030@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66858 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends5 Status: O X-Status: Most of the studies I'm aware of discuss the manufacture of ethanol from corn. I know first-hand of an interesting process that uses cellulose as its feedstock. The reaction is via an enzyme that initially converts the cellulose to sugar... then the normal fermentation process to ethanol. The process lends itself very nicely to waste wood: bark, chips, sawdust, stumpage... and could easily be implemented by the pulp and paper industry which has the logistics in place to undertake such projects. And this industry is having its problems right now, especially here in Canada. All it takes is some investment. Many energy expenditures occur, even/especially with oil-based fuels. Imagine how much energy it takes to transport fuel from the the wells to the refineries dotted about North America to the fuel depots and then to the individual retail outlets. The conversion process from raw oil to different fuel types also takes a substantial amount of energy. Same problems with ethanol: manufacture and distribution. I haven't read the various studies on the subject so I don't know what parameters were used. I can only say that some time ago similar studies were done to compare solar energy (energy to manufacture the panels, etc.) and these were all deeply flawed - either accidentally or deliberately. Philip. At 04:19 PM 3/9/2006 -0500, you wrote: >See: > >http://rael.berkeley.edu/EBAMM/ERG-NPR-letter-1-30-06.pdf > >Farrell agrees with Pimentel that ethanol takes a lot of input energy -- >although he does not specify how much in this letter. He says that >Pimentel was wrong and that the Berkeley study did take into account the >energy used by farm machinery. > >His main point is that much of the input energy for ethanol production >comes from fuels other than oil, so it produces a net increase in >transportation fuel. Maybe so, but I doubt it is economically viable, I >doubt it does anything to reduce CO2 emissions, and I expect that if the >subsidies were withdrawn no one would buy the stuff. > >- Jed > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 15:25:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29NPXtc030184; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:25:37 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k29NPVJq030158; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:25:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:25:31 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Sender:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=F/2VXl6oUBQWLlpZDpRRRZJLXX5/ZVu5pEEg/RH6s9CllOQfsCnf7eukLLbq/9eQy8O1Xbncmj2eIl32vctV88eqHqajjnL965jJnKX4wpcoT0sQ0MDHia2TXuIaFT6EYJabNoaMX71PAtHeCbnaOTShBMVfXRTYoJELGIlrPHk= ; Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.1.20060309182059.01d5cec0@pop> X-Sender: philip.winestone@pop X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.1.1 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 18:24:37 -0500 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Philip Winestone Subject: Re: Farrell responds to Pimentel regarding ethanol In-Reply-To: <02f401c643ce$3cc894a0$3800a8c0@zothan> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060309161542.03580030@mindspring.com> <6.1.1.1.1.20060309162500.01d54100@pop> <02f401c643ce$3cc894a0$3800a8c0@zothan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66863 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends5 Status: O X-Status: Good point about the CO2 emissions. I don't believe it's practical to even think about running vehicles on biofuels alone. I do believe, however, that a percentage of vehicle fuel could be biofuel. Right now I use Sunoco gas (in Canada) that contains a maximum of 10% ethanol. If all gasoline suppliers were to supplement their fuel with 10% ethanol, that's simply 10% less gasoline used. I don't know how much is practical, but any avoidance of oil imports is important to me. Philip. At 12:07 AM 3/10/2006 +0100, you wrote: >I heard that the limit on biofuels is that they would require devoting the >entirety of our agricultural surfaces to the corresponding cultivations if >we wanted to run all our vehicles on them. Otherwise their net CO2 >emission is zero without a doubt, as all they can release to the >atmosphere is what they have taken from it a year or so before for their >photosynthesis, unlike fossil fuels which did so a very long time ago. > >Michel > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Winestone" > >To: >Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 11:39 PM >Subject: Re: Farrell responds to Pimentel regarding ethanol > > >>Most of the studies I'm aware of discuss the manufacture of ethanol from >>corn. I know first-hand of an interesting process that uses cellulose as >>its feedstock. The reaction is via an enzyme that initially converts the >>cellulose to sugar... then the normal fermentation process to ethanol. >> >>The process lends itself very nicely to waste wood: bark, chips, sawdust, >>stumpage... and could easily be implemented by the pulp and paper >>industry which has the logistics in place to undertake such >>projects. And this industry is having its problems right now, especially >>here in Canada. >> >>All it takes is some investment. >> >>Many energy expenditures occur, even/especially with oil-based fuels. >>Imagine how much energy it takes to transport fuel from the the wells to >>the refineries dotted about North America to the fuel depots and then to >>the individual retail outlets. The conversion process from raw oil to >>different fuel types also takes a substantial amount of energy. >> >>Same problems with ethanol: manufacture and distribution. I haven't read >>the various studies on the subject so I don't know what parameters were >>used. I can only say that some time ago similar studies were done to >>compare solar energy (energy to manufacture the panels, etc.) and these >>were all deeply flawed - either accidentally or deliberately. >> >>Philip. >> >> >> >> >>At 04:19 PM 3/9/2006 -0500, you wrote: >>>See: >>> >>>http://rael.berkeley.edu/EBAMM/ERG-NPR-letter-1-30-06.pdf >>> >>>Farrell agrees with Pimentel that ethanol takes a lot of input energy -- >>>although he does not specify how much in this letter. He says that >>>Pimentel was wrong and that the Berkeley study did take into account the >>>energy used by farm machinery. >>> >>>His main point is that much of the input energy for ethanol production >>>comes from fuels other than oil, so it produces a net increase in >>>transportation fuel. Maybe so, but I doubt it is economically viable, I >>>doubt it does anything to reduce CO2 emissions, and I expect that if the >>>subsidies were withdrawn no one would buy the stuff. >>> >>>- Jed >> From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 15:39:09 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k29NcXHp004504; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:38:33 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k29NcUpp004469; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:38:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:38:30 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Sender:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=sTzC7iucJe6tyKUhFqKCjat8UGN8+0XX6wjWYje1Yt6QCbw2xyTmDp7XVAXYVo+cMxsILoWYYPt3QolGTTQzFVFeyhyu/Mhgh46m59J+4VvJOfDec6lwcd7thoIBaB3Fbt59GhiJdBJ6Evhr6bzoCUuMdaoapkQOm0ARh8dW1VY= ; Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.1.20060309183601.01d77220@pop> X-Sender: philip.winestone@pop X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.1.1 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 18:37:36 -0500 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Philip Winestone Subject: Re: Farrell responds to Pimentel regarding ethanol In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060309182008.03580030@mindspring.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060309161542.03580030@mindspring.com> <6.1.1.1.1.20060309162500.01d54100@pop> <02f401c643ce$3cc894a0$3800a8c0@zothan> <7.0.1.0.2.20060309182008.03580030@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66865 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends5 Status: O X-Status: That's why I'm basically against using corn. My other post indicated a viable process (I've seen it) that uses (waste) cellulose. But still, as you say, just a reasonable percentage would help considerably. Philip. At 06:24 PM 3/9/2006 -0500, you wrote: >Michel Jullian wrote: > >>I heard that the limit on biofuels is that they would require devoting >>the entirety of our agricultural surfaces to the corresponding >>cultivations if we wanted to run all our vehicles on them. > >I have discussed that issue here before. Actually, it would take much more >than "the entirety of our agricultural surfaces" in the U.S. It would take >roughly twice as much as the entire landmass produces -- 2 times all >biomass from all dry land. > >Biomass can never supply more than a few percent of our energy, and every >calorie of biomass we use condemns someone outside the United States to >malnutrition and starvation. > >- Jed > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 9 16:50:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2A0nsvY005589; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:49:55 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2A0nrer005573; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:49:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:49:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Sender:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=r2RJDDoqlgTOUAk5xvGhFE1NqZ3TNZAGxr86yCJEiXsqMaakhQWIx6BM5cKxiVQ5LVI7a0+Z49hmGpvNy6pCimwEWUWI7XT3R1qz9OHCk8uIs8DVktxjFOkfdlpi2t+jtextDXFbZezLeEpdQ/qp6bTdFGGETSNsQfheTf2IcgQ= ; Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.1.20060309194227.01d57488@pop> X-Sender: philip.winestone@pop X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.1.1 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 19:49:00 -0500 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Philip Winestone Subject: Re: Farrell responds to Pimentel regarding ethanol In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060309183409.035ac470@mindspring.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060309161542.03580030@mindspring.com> <6.1.1.1.1.20060309162500.01d54100@pop> <02f401c643ce$3cc894a0$3800a8c0@zothan> <6.1.1.1.1.20060309182059.01d5cec0@pop> <7.0.1.0.2.20060309183409.035ac470@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66871 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends5 Status: O X-Status: Well, I keep saying it: no corn... only cellulose, preferably waste cellulose, of which there's lots. So there's no question of starving. In the ethanol manufacturing process, there's really only one main user of energy, which is the distillation operation. In addition, because ethanol forms an azeotrope, removing water from the last 2 - 3% of the ethanol-water solution, could be another significant energy user... I don't know about this, as I haven't gone into it... We have to also distinguish between mobile (automotive) fuel usage and static usage. Why use oil, a mobile fuel, as a fuel for another mobile fuel, when other waste products as well as coal - static fuels - could do the job. Philip. At 06:40 PM 3/9/2006 -0500, you wrote: >Philip Winestone wrote: > >>If all gasoline suppliers were to supplement their fuel with 10% ethanol, >>that's simply 10% less gasoline used. > >It is not that simple. The amount reduced would depend upon how much oil >is needed to produce the ethanol. That subject is sharply disputed, but as >far as I know even the industry flacks agree that a great deal of oil is >needed. The industry claims the overhead is 60%. Assuming that most of >that is oil, and not coal, the use of 10% ethanol would reduce oil >consumption by 5%. > >I do not think there is a slightest chance we can ever supply 10% of >gasoline with ethanol. We would starve to death. > >Of course you might run the ethanol production industry on ethanol itself, >reducing oil inputs to zero. But in that case the cost of a gallon of >ethanol would be $10 or so and the energy overhead would be outrageous. As >things now stand, no tractor or ethanol factory boiler is fired by >ethanol, or as all oil wells, refineries and tankers are powered by oil. > >- Jed > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 18:50:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2E2oS6h019106; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:50:28 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2E2oRio019094; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:50:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:50:27 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060313161743.03855068@mindspring.com> References: <005d01c64463$66d0f860$6401a8c0@NuDell> <7.0.1.0.2.20060310160457.03471b68@mindspring.com> <004201c64494$f3b7dec0$6401a8c0@NuDell> <7.0.1.0.2.20060310181723.035cbb50@mindspring.com> <1de9129fu3as5lomvfdasr5ljnvrjhpuie@4ax.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060313095813.034c1688@mindspring.com> <5C5C5A15-73BF-4740-9D25-DF3AEA1E6114@mtaonline.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20060313161743.03855068@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <45F22843-1C5A-44F5-9E8F-650AF80D6549@mtaonline.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Hydrogen from electrolysis versus gasoline Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:50:20 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67007 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mar 13, 2006, at 12:26 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > Horace Heffner wrote: > >> Large volume hydrogen transmission, distribution and storage are >> fairly obvious problems to any engineer serious about a hydrogen >> economy. > > Yup. That is why I said, "Actually, I would prefer to see them > generate some sort of hydrogen based synthetic fuel . . ." I think a true hydrogen economy is very feasible, but the fact there is no emphasis on the required infrastructure in the US says volumes about the true intent of the US government - either that or its planning competence. A good reason for the latter is possibly distortion caused by input from "experts" having ulterior motives. > Something liquid at room temperature such as LP gas would be ideal. > Something with just a hint of carbon! -- and don't worry, a little > sherbet between courses will cleanse the palate. My taste leans toward silicon based compounds rather than carbon based compounds for energy transport and storage. Silicon need not be a source of greenhouse gasses, unless maybe there is a shipping disaster, and even then the ecological damages are far less than from equivalent oil spills. Many of the countries rich in petroleum are rich in just what's needed for a pure silicon or even a silicon- hydrogen economy - lots of sun and sand. If they invested petrodollars in solar towers and silicon-hydrogen technology, they might even be able to beat the well decline curves. There again, a vertical integration strategy is required to assure a ready and reliable market for the energy. Solar towers (i.e. solar chimneys) seem to me to provide the likely solution to the energy source problem, assuming modification of the flue tops is made to take advantage of ambient wind to increase the flue draw. Located in windy areas, near the sea for example, or with tops located along and supported by mountain ridges, solar towers should be economically very effective. They are only in their infancy with regard to economic efficiency. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 13 21:10:17 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2E5A6aK025264; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 21:10:06 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2E5A4nc025238; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 21:10:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 21:10:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <4416500C.3020602@usfamily.net> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 23:09:32 -0600 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: a meteorologist speaks on climate change References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67008 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Vortexians; I've been corresponding with the meteorologist Roy Spencer. His ecoenquirer.com website is satire. I asked him for a URL of his serious writing on the subject, and he replied >news@ecoenquirer.com wrote: >Thomas: >If you want my serious writings on the subject, I have a lot of short climate articles at: http://www.tcsdaily.com/Authors.aspx?id=267 > >I read his article on the Canadian conference. Then I sent him the following > > Just in time, someone posted this on Vortex-L >http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0222-27.htm > > >he replied; > >Thanks for the article...I would say that is the most irresponsible >piece of journalism I have ever read on climate issues. > > > >> >> --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 14 03:14:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2EBEKMh032447; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 03:14:20 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2EBEInG032430; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 03:14:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 03:14:18 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=poxzwA3BiUmdrbOxKfrXCmOFJL6g6wmh6EeoAxmcsfCdozyloavQL7cvfe8Id3yb; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063214111410114@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electronium (*e-) & Sodium-22 Laced Electrolysis Cells Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 04:14:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9403a89e8a315f797a6f2e3d86941526814350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.228 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67009 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII FWIW, Jones. A gram of Sodium-22 (2.605 year half-life) undergoes 2.3e14 0.55 MeV positron (e+) decays per second (6,225 Curie) leading to an excited Neon-22 nucleus that emits a 1.27 MeV gamma (sufficient energy for providing the 1.02 MeV required for additional electron-positron pair production). If a "hot lab" was to coat some nickel, titanium, or palladium cathodes with the Na-22 metal or suitable compound and let it set long enough for it to be reasonably safe to handle as a Cold Fusion electrolysis cell cathode, might it breed enough (*e-) in situ to enhance CF/OU results? Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
FWIW, Jones.
 
A gram of Sodium-22 (2.605 year half-life) undergoes 2.3e14  0.55 MeV positron (e+) decays per second (6,225 Curie)
leading to an excited Neon-22 nucleus that emits a 1.27 MeV gamma (sufficient energy
for providing the 1.02 MeV required for additional electron-positron pair production).
 
If a "hot lab" was to coat some nickel, titanium, or palladium cathodes with
the Na-22 metal or suitable compound and let it set long enough for it to be
reasonably safe to handle as a Cold Fusion  electrolysis cell cathode,
might it breed enough (*e-) in situ to enhance CF/OU results?
 
Fred
 
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 14 04:01:17 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2EC16db024471; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 04:01:07 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2EC15X7024450; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 04:01:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 04:01:05 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=BogZi0AXgdO/QVwdvtDtenkbGs/VWU5rdN6Y48k/I3CQCVh1Ngk0nE8D8Y7dQl5u; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006321412051704@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electronium (*e-) & Sodium-22 Laced Electrolysis Cells Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 05:00:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940b6434fdf97f75b4c1651a8fb4a8798f4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.199 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67010 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII BTW, Potassium-40 might be easier to use in a similar manner. Half-life 1.277e9 years, decay constant 1.715e-17, About 90% beta minus decay to Calcium-40 plus a 1.46 Mev gamma and 10% positron decay (or K electron capture) to Argon-40. The Max Planck Institute Na-22 experiment used a tungsten foil to thermalize the positrons.: http://www.mpi-hd.mpg.de/ato/psminus/ "We have a 22Na source (on the left) emitting positrons at 0.55 MeV. A tungsten foil moderates the positrons to thermic velocities (about 30 eV)." ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 3/14/2006 4:14:51 AM Subject: Re: Electronium (*e-) & Sodium-22 Laced Electrolysis Cells FWIW, Jones. A gram of Sodium-22 (2.605 year half-life) undergoes 2.3e14 0.55 MeV positron (e+) decays per second (6,225 Curie) leading to an excited Neon-22 nucleus that emits a 1.27 MeV gamma (sufficient energy for providing the 1.02 MeV required for additional electron-positron pair production). If a "hot lab" was to coat some nickel, titanium, or palladium cathodes with the Na-22 metal or suitable compound and let it set long enough for it to be reasonably safe to handle as a Cold Fusion electrolysis cell cathode, might it breed enough (*e-) in situ to enhance CF/OU results? Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
BTW, Potassium-40 might be easier to use in a similar manner.
 
Half-life 1.277e9 years, decay constant 1.715e-17,
 
About 90% beta minus decay to Calcium-40 plus a 1.46 Mev gamma and
10% positron decay  (or K electron capture) to Argon-40.
 
The Max Planck Institute Na-22 experiment used a tungsten foil
to thermalize the positrons.:
 
 
"We have a 22Na source (on the left) emitting positrons at 0.55 MeV.
A tungsten foil moderates the positrons to thermic velocities (about 30 eV)."
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 3/14/2006 4:14:51 AM
Subject: Re: Electronium (*e-) & Sodium-22 Laced Electrolysis Cells

FWIW, Jones.
 
A gram of Sodium-22 (2.605 year half-life) undergoes 2.3e14  0.55 MeV positron (e+) decays per second (6,225 Curie)
leading to an excited Neon-22 nucleus that emits a 1.27 MeV gamma (sufficient energy
for providing the 1.02 MeV required for additional electron-positron pair production).
 
If a "hot lab" was to coat some nickel, titanium, or palladium cathodes with
the Na-22 metal or suitable compound and let it set long enough for it to be
reasonably safe to handle as a Cold Fusion  electrolysis cell cathode,
might it breed enough (*e-) in situ to enhance CF/OU results?
 
Fred
 
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 14 04:10:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2ECAX7I028531; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 04:10:33 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2ECAUS6028498; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 04:10:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 04:10:30 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <001601c64760$447b1f70$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> From: "Nick Palmer" To: References: <4416500C.3020602@usfamily.net> Subject: Re: a meteorologist speaks on climate change Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 12:10:17 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67011 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thomas Malloy wrote to the "lone wolf" meteorologist Roy Spencer and was directed by the reply to his website of "serious articles" http://www.tcsdaily.com/Authors.aspx?id=267 Mr Spencer further poured scorn on the piece of popular journalism at http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0222-27.htm by saying "I would say that is the most irresponsible piece of journalism I have ever read on climate issues" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I say Mr Spencer himself is irresponsible and an (even more than an) idiot. >From his "serious articles" it is all to easy to see that he is not stupid - he is far more dangerous than that - he is what I call "anti-intelligent". Just like an anti-matter particle can seriously interfere with the life of a normal matter particle, so then do anti-intelligent people royally screw things up. Ordinary people make the mistake of giving equal weight to two opposing "scientific" views. They assume that the underlying values and beliefs and assumptions of both can be taken as read to be cool, unbiased and responsible and wise. This is very often not the case!! An anti-intelligent person uses their undoubted brain power and education to come up with ideas and beliefs that are pathological - that tend to hurt humanity and the ecosphere. They often seem more rational , more calm and collected and more sensible. Watch out! This is the intelligent position. Greenhouse gases ARE increasing in the atmosphere, Physics STATES that this will change the retention of energy in our atmosphere unless there is some exactly equal balancing effect which is highly unlikely, has not been mentioned, and it should not be gambled upon that there is. There are many "feedback loops" that can be identified (dozens, hundreds, thousands, millions depending on how you define the categories) some positive, some negative. Depending on which combination of loops proves to "have the upper hand", the Planet will retain more energy from the sun causing ultimately disastrous global warming or will stay exactly the same or we may end up with an ice planet. Warming will almost certainly modify the feedback loops themselves. Once we are in a period of unknown climate instability NO-ONE knows or can genuinely predict which way things will go. Let me shout that again. NOBODY KNOWS WHICH WAY THINGS WILL GO - NOBODY AT ALL - the basic laws of the universe say NO-ONE KNOWS FOR CERTAIN. Anybody who disputes these statements is not just an idiot, they are anti-intelligent. There are very many scientists and environmentalists who believe in their theories so strongly that they believe they can predict what will happen, but climate science is all deduction and inference. It is not now, and never has been, an experimental science, so the hypotheses have never been any thing like fully tested by any experiment (e.g - let's halve the concentration of CO2 at the Poles and treble it at the Equator and see if what happens agrees with our predictions from our hypotheses and our computer models) and when one is dealing with a primary life support mechanism for most life on Earth, it is highly irresponsible to accidentally experiment with (more like monkey with) it, as we are currently doing. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mr Malloy seems to believe that Roy Spencer is "anti" the global warming hype and thereby appears to believe that this means he is saying there is no danger, and some of Mr Spencer's writings suggest this but from his own articles, I have selected a few paragraphs that are hopefully not taken out of context. >From his "serious" articles >From the first article, paragraph seven <> He basically admits that there IS a problem with increasing greenhouse gases and he is gambling that we will invent technology that will be sufficiently "major" to do the job in time. All of us here on Vortex are keen on new energy technology and the clever use of existing technology (c.f. Horace's monographs on financial incentives, reflective particles etc) but Mr Spencer ought to realise the enormous "inertia" of the climate and ocean systems. We cannot wait for something that may not come in time or may not be sufficiently "major". Gamblers often lose. It is highly irresponsible of them to take all the rest of us down with them if they lose. >From article 4 , paragraphs 2 and 11 <> <> He knows that greenhouse gases are increasing - he admits that no rate of increase is sustainable. He finally admits that the hype over the dangers of global warming " will help usher in new energy technologies" and that "the tension created by environmental problems helps to motivate eventual solutions" and yet he consistently tries to calm down the debate and adopts an "it won't be as bad as people make out" stance, even though, as I proved above, he CANNOT KNOW THIS IN ADVANCE for sure. His effect then is to lull readers into a false sense of more security than is warranted and he consistently tries to defuse the "tension" that he admits will usher in the technologies that he is relying upon to come over the hill, like the US cavalry, and save us all. Is this man not one of the most irresponsible people you can imagine? Nick Palmer From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 14 05:03:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2ED3ifO024162; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 05:03:45 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2ED3hoa024145; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 05:03:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 05:03:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=B8uKyv8IXYoMmBY++1QlblIrePSYBO3aYTKrxxy5wqenf2B+b0FFowi3XP1YYQav; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006321413337391@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: a meteorologist speaks on climate change Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 06:03:37 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9401d79a4ed6955177bc55e5e663964f0f2350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.208 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67012 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Nick Palmer wrote. > > Mr Malloy seems to believe that Roy Spencer is "anti" the global warming > hype and thereby appears to believe that this means he is saying there is no > danger, and some of Mr Spencer's writings suggest this but from his own > articles, I have selected a few paragraphs that are hopefully not taken out > of context. > Snip excellent argument. > I would say Mr Malloy should apply for one of the "Entry Level" jobs at Wal-Mart, a "greeter".or when he gets too old for that, a "speed bump". :-) Fred From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 14 05:05:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2ED5Tur025021; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 05:05:30 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2ED5Rxd024988; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 05:05:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 05:05:27 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060311120104.02a522b0@mail.newenergytimes.com> <92p612193s9hdu2p09kcjlqj3tvs5h971e@4ax.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20060311161822.028b8f48@mail.newenergytimes.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <02B808D6-D0D9-4F58-8DCE-2E2B7212D2F9@mtaonline.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Science exposes Hot Fusion weaknesses: March 11, 2006 Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 04:05:24 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: <4i6vz.A.XGG.X-rFEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67013 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A LiBr in D2O solution might also work as a neutron moderator plus energy extractor. With a molecular weight of 86.85 and solubility of 2540 g/l, that's about .2 g/cm^3 of lithium. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 14 05:21:43 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2EDLM2J003308; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 05:21:23 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2EDLJEU003262; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 05:21:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 05:21:19 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060311120104.02a522b0@mail.newenergytimes.com> <92p612193s9hdu2p09kcjlqj3tvs5h971e@4ax.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20060311161822.028b8f48@mail.newenergytimes.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Science exposes Hot Fusion weaknesses: March 11, 2006 Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 04:21:15 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67014 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A LiCl in D2O solution might also work as a neutron moderator plus energy extractor. With a molecular weight of 42.39 and solubility of 1300 g/l, that's about .21 g/cm^3 of lithium. The problem with LiCl is the 3x10^5 half life of 36Cl. LiBr looks better. LiI also has high solubility but some unfortunate byproducts. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 14 06:00:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2EE05db023744; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 06:00:34 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2EDld1e017780; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 05:47:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 05:47:39 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Horace Heffner Subject: cobalt hydroquinone Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 04:47:11 -0900 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67015 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Speculation: cobalt hydroquinone may be a useful hydrogen storage matrix. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/03/060306213121.htm Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 14 06:02:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2EE1toS025680; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 06:01:55 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2EE1rOa025650; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 06:01:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 06:01:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <000601c6476f$d55cf9a0$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> From: "Nick Palmer" To: "Vortex-L" References: <410-22006321413337391@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: a meteorologist speaks on climate change Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:01:42 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67016 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred, the only thing I have against Thomas is that he tends to be one of the "I heard a man say on the radio" types - it's the "men on the radio" that I was a having a go against... Nick From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 14 06:19:56 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2EEJfCr008274; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 06:19:41 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2EEJdbV008260; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 06:19:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 06:19:39 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=GlnSfBnCOhvQLS4GFYLn4/rRTWKEDTjfKN20MyS2uhd+dOUWn5GESh2iqWfGKezs; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063214141930451@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: a meteorologist speaks on climate change Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 07:19:30 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9405fc6d6b66bcb467ea69e5d621663ebee350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.251 Resent-Message-ID: <6xDb8D.A.ABC.7DtFEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67017 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I was only poking fun at Thomas, Nick. But for every 12 tons of Carbon in Fossil Fuels oxidized there are 44 tons of CO2 going into the atmosphere. Multiply that by billions of tons annually worldwide, and it's not hard to figure that terrestrial or marine biomass CO2 "sequestering" isn't keeping up with it. Fred > [Original Message] > From: Nick Palmer > To: Vortex-L > Date: 3/14/2006 7:02:28 AM > Subject: Re: a meteorologist speaks on climate change > > Fred, the only thing I have against Thomas is that he tends to be one of the > "I heard a man say on the radio" types - it's the "men on the radio" that I > was a having a go against... > > Nick > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 14 06:23:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2EEN2JZ012262; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 06:23:03 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2EEMwts012207; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 06:22:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 06:22:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <001101c64772$fb146720$6701a8c0@msns.flt.ptd.net> From: "revtec" To: References: <4416500C.3020602@usfamily.net> <001601c64760$447b1f70$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> Subject: Re: a meteorologist speaks on climate change Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 09:24:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67018 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Nick, I see an important point in the text you quoted that I think you missed. "So, my > conclusion is, we should not shoot ourselves in the economic foot to gain > reductions equivalent to only, say, 10% in emissions." We may be too late, or we may be close to too late. In either of those scenerios a 10% reduction will not save us, but merely cripple the global economies, and put the massive absolute solutions out of reach. We can't save civilization by dismantling it. This is what must happen: 1. The economy must be kept roaring. 2. This will free up resources that can be directed toward non CO2 producing energy solutions like various forms of cold fusion. 3. Leaders must direct appropriate research to be done with these resources. (this is what is still not happening) 4. Then, when practical solutions are identified, we will have sufficient wealth and prosperity to impliment them. This is the only way. Anything less than this brings us to global failure. Can it be done in time? I don't know, and neither does anybody else. If greenhouse gases are a problem that humans must fix, then this is the only way we can both fix it and save civilization. Jeff Fink P.S. This Kyoto stuff is a formula for disaster. We are past the point of no return on a takeoff runway. It is too late to apply the brakes and make a safe stop. It's throttle to the firewall. We either fly or die. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Palmer" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 7:10 AM Subject: Re: a meteorologist speaks on climate change > Thomas Malloy wrote to the "lone wolf" meteorologist Roy Spencer and was > directed by the reply to his website of "serious articles" > http://www.tcsdaily.com/Authors.aspx?id=267 > > Mr Spencer further poured scorn on the piece of popular journalism at > http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0222-27.htm by saying "I would say that > is the most irresponsible piece of journalism I have ever read on climate > issues" > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > I say Mr Spencer himself is irresponsible and an (even more than an) idiot. > From his "serious articles" it is all to easy to see that he is not stupid - > he is far more dangerous than that - he is what I call "anti-intelligent". > Just like an anti-matter particle can seriously interfere with the life of a > normal matter particle, so then do anti-intelligent people royally screw > things up. Ordinary people make the mistake of giving equal weight to two > opposing "scientific" views. They assume that the underlying values and > beliefs and assumptions of both can be taken as read to be cool, unbiased > and responsible and wise. This is very often not the case!! An > anti-intelligent person uses their undoubted brain power and education to > come up with ideas and beliefs that are pathological - that tend to hurt > humanity and the ecosphere. They often seem more rational , more calm and > collected and more sensible. Watch out! > > This is the intelligent position. Greenhouse gases ARE increasing in the > atmosphere, Physics STATES that this will change the retention of energy > in our atmosphere unless there is some exactly equal balancing effect which > is highly unlikely, has not been mentioned, and it should not be gambled > upon that there is. There are many "feedback loops" that can be identified > (dozens, hundreds, thousands, millions depending on how you define the > categories) some positive, some negative. Depending on which combination of > loops proves to "have the upper hand", the Planet will retain more energy > from the sun causing ultimately disastrous global warming or will stay > exactly the same or we may end up with an ice planet. Warming will almost > certainly modify the feedback loops themselves. Once we are in a period of > unknown climate instability NO-ONE knows or can genuinely predict which way > things will go. Let me shout that again. NOBODY KNOWS WHICH WAY THINGS WILL > GO - NOBODY AT ALL - the basic laws of the universe say NO-ONE KNOWS FOR > CERTAIN. Anybody who disputes these statements is not just an idiot, they > are anti-intelligent. There are very many scientists and environmentalists > who believe in their theories so strongly that they believe they can predict > what will happen, but climate science is all deduction and inference. It is > not now, and never has been, an experimental science, so the hypotheses have > never been any thing like fully tested by any experiment (e.g - let's halve > the concentration of CO2 at the Poles and treble it at the Equator and see > if what happens agrees with our predictions from our hypotheses and our > computer models) and when one is dealing with a primary life support > mechanism for most life on Earth, it is highly irresponsible to accidentally > experiment with (more like monkey with) it, as we are currently doing. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- > > Mr Malloy seems to believe that Roy Spencer is "anti" the global warming > hype and thereby appears to believe that this means he is saying there is no > danger, and some of Mr Spencer's writings suggest this but from his own > articles, I have selected a few paragraphs that are hopefully not taken out > of context. > > From his "serious" articles > From the first article, paragraph seven < be stupid to not do something now about reducing carbon emissions -- if it > were that easy. But I believe that major technological advances are the only > way humanity can substantially reduce carbon emissions in this century. And > as readers of my previous articles here know, I have argued that only the > wealthy countries can afford the R&D to make these advances. So, my > conclusion is, we should not shoot ourselves in the economic foot to gain > reductions equivalent to only, say, 10% in emissions. While this is also > similar to the Bush Administration's position, I have had no influence from > them or anyone else the last 20 years to change what I believe on this > subject.>> > > He basically admits that there IS a problem with increasing greenhouse gases > and he is gambling that we will invent technology that will be sufficiently > "major" to do the job in time. All of us here on Vortex are keen on new > energy technology and the clever use of existing technology (c.f. Horace's > monographs on financial incentives, reflective particles etc) but Mr Spencer > ought to realise the enormous "inertia" of the climate and ocean systems. We > cannot wait for something that may not come in time or may not be > sufficiently "major". Gamblers often lose. It is highly irresponsible of > them to take all the rest of us down with them if they lose. > > > From article 4 , paragraphs 2 and 11 > < rate of increase in atmospheric greenhouse gases is sustainable. Second, the > sustainability argument neglects the proven role of technological advances > that, historically, make sustainability a moot point.>> > > < introduction of the automobile over a century ago, I suspect that our > current worries over global warming will evaporate in the coming decades. Of > course, it will be in part the concern over global warming that will help to > usher in new energy technologies, and so the tension created by > environmental problems helps to motivate eventual solutions.>> > > He knows that greenhouse gases are increasing - he admits that no rate of > increase is sustainable. He finally admits that the hype over the dangers of > global warming " will help usher in new energy technologies" and that "the > tension created by environmental problems helps to motivate eventual > solutions" and yet he consistently tries to calm down the debate and adopts > an "it won't be as bad as people make out" stance, even though, as I proved > above, he CANNOT KNOW THIS IN ADVANCE for sure. His effect then is to lull > readers into a false sense of more security than is warranted and he > consistently tries to defuse the "tension" that he admits will usher in the > technologies that he is relying upon to come over the hill, like the US > cavalry, and save us all. > > Is this man not one of the most irresponsible people you can imagine? > > > Nick Palmer > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 14 08:41:08 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2EGepaQ023482; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 08:40:52 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2EGencC023463; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 08:40:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 08:40:49 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: a meteorologist speaks on climate change Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 11:49:26 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <001101c64772$fb146720$6701a8c0@msns.flt.ptd.net> Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67019 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Revtek writes: >This is what must happen: >1. The economy must be kept roaring. Dow index / Jan 2000 - 11,500 Jan 2006 - 10,780 aggregate US economic growth, -6% Roaring, Rev? How about whimpering like a pimpslapped bitch. No point in addressing the rest. Please reconnect to reality and try again. Operators are standing by. K. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 14 09:18:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2EHHZkv011587; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 09:17:36 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2EHHWiK011539; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 09:17:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 09:17:32 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=fDz/z+fZSzmPC3r//dV6pf3op870W83TYhEQapAKP6m9f7kY9zqO3VBguSFbxgcf; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063214171720250@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electronium (*e-) & Sodium-22 Laced Electrolysis Cells Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 10:17:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940f535a01accdae027ff07f9f7c4e80db9350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.125 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67020 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I suppose dipping the cathode materials in molten Sodium-22 or compounds for a few days then ridding them of radioactive material would do the activation. Fred BTW, Potassium-40 might be easier to use in a similar manner. Half-life 1.277e9 years, decay constant 1.715e-17, About 90% beta minus decay to Calcium-40 plus a 1.46 Mev gamma and 10% positron decay (or K electron capture) to Argon-40. The Max Planck Institute Na-22 experiment used a tungsten foil to thermalize the positrons.: http://www.mpi-hd.mpg.de/ato/psminus/ "We have a 22Na source (on the left) emitting positrons at 0.55 MeV. A tungsten foil moderates the positrons to thermic velocities (about 30 eV)." ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 3/14/2006 4:14:51 AM Subject: Re: Electronium (*e-) & Sodium-22 Laced Electrolysis Cells FWIW, Jones. A gram of Sodium-22 (2.605 year half-life) undergoes 2.3e14 0.55 MeV positron (e+) decays per second (6,225 Curie) leading to an excited Neon-22 nucleus that emits a 1.27 MeV gamma (sufficient energy for providing the 1.02 MeV required for additional electron-positron pair production). If a "hot lab" was to coat some nickel, titanium, or palladium cathodes with the Na-22 metal or suitable compound and let it set long enough for it to be reasonably safe to handle as a Cold Fusion electrolysis cell cathode, might it breed enough (*e-) in situ to enhance CF/OU results? Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
I suppose dipping the cathode materials in molten Sodium-22 or compounds
for a few days then ridding them of radioactive material would do the activation.
 
Fred

BTW, Potassium-40 might be easier to use in a similar manner.
 
Half-life 1.277e9 years, decay constant 1.715e-17,
 
About 90% beta minus decay to Calcium-40 plus a 1.46 Mev gamma and
10% positron decay  (or K electron capture) to Argon-40.
 
The Max Planck Institute Na-22 experiment used a tungsten foil
to thermalize the positrons.:
 
 
"We have a 22Na source (on the left) emitting positrons at 0.55 MeV.
A tungsten foil moderates the positrons to thermic velocities (about 30 eV)."
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 3/14/2006 4:14:51 AM
Subject: Re: Electronium (*e-) & Sodium-22 Laced Electrolysis Cells

FWIW, Jones.
 
A gram of Sodium-22 (2.605 year half-life) undergoes 2.3e14  0.55 MeV positron (e+) decays per second (6,225 Curie)
leading to an excited Neon-22 nucleus that emits a 1.27 MeV gamma (sufficient energy
for providing the 1.02 MeV required for additional electron-positron pair production).
 
If a "hot lab" was to coat some nickel, titanium, or palladium cathodes with
the Na-22 metal or suitable compound and let it set long enough for it to be
reasonably safe to handle as a Cold Fusion  electrolysis cell cathode,
might it breed enough (*e-) in situ to enhance CF/OU results?
 
Fred
 
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 14 10:48:21 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2EIO1wL019509; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 10:24:02 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2EINqNn019385; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 10:23:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 10:23:52 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: a meteorologist speaks on climate change Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 09:23:45 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67021 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mar 14, 2006, at 7:49 AM, Keith Nagel wrote: > Revtek writes: >> This is what must happen: >> 1. The economy must be kept roaring. > > Dow index / > Jan 2000 - 11,500 > Jan 2006 - 10,780 > aggregate US economic growth, -6% > > Roaring, Rev? How about whimpering like a pimpslapped bitch. Yes, and considering inflation, it is of course worse. A 1999 dollar was worth 876.79 in 2005. See: http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi The market actually dropped from 11,500 to roughly 9452, all in 1999 dollars, a real loss of about 18 percent. The cost of energy is a real economy killer. A concentrated effort on renewable energy could do for the economy what WWII or the space program did for the economy, and more. The economic benefits would be permanent. Winning the war and getting to the moon had only spinoff economic benefits. Solving the energy problem has *direct* economic benefits. Most people aren't aware of the costs they will pay for bad government choices, nor the benefits that can be obtained from the right government choices. The problem is renewable energy upsets the status quo, so who is there to lobby for and publicise the right choices? Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 14 10:59:34 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2EIxJ38007751; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 10:59:20 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2EIxH2Q007719; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 10:59:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 10:59:17 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 13:59:10 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C815B082F45B04-AAC-8BB@mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Flux Gating Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.138 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67022 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A parallel path induction motor: http://www.flynnresearch.net/our_patent.htm some say is ou. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 14 15:10:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2ENAZGP012329; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:10:36 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2ENAYKF012320; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:10:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:10:34 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <005901c647bc$b3ee4b00$6701a8c0@msns.flt.ptd.net> From: "revtec" To: References: Subject: Re: a meteorologist speaks on climate change Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 18:11:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 Resent-Message-ID: <_7n89B.A.cAD.q10FEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67023 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Whether or not the global economy is good, it must become good to accomplish all that must be done. All of our CO2 producing machines must be replaced with non CO2 producing machines, and this can only be done by revving up our CO2 technology to the max to produce the replacements! We are running out of runway. Who's for cutting the throttle and hitting the brakes? Are we going to fly or end up splattered in a ditch? Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Horace Heffner" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 1:23 PM Subject: Re: a meteorologist speaks on climate change > > On Mar 14, 2006, at 7:49 AM, Keith Nagel wrote: > > > Revtek writes: > >> This is what must happen: > >> 1. The economy must be kept roaring. > > > > Dow index / > > Jan 2000 - 11,500 > > Jan 2006 - 10,780 > > aggregate US economic growth, -6% > > > > Roaring, Rev? How about whimpering like a pimpslapped bitch. > > > Yes, and considering inflation, it is of course worse. A 1999 dollar > was worth 876.79 in 2005. See: > > http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi > > The market actually dropped from 11,500 to roughly 9452, all in 1999 > dollars, a real loss of about 18 percent. The cost of energy is a > real economy killer. > > A concentrated effort on renewable energy could do for the economy > what WWII or the space program did for the economy, and more. The > economic benefits would be permanent. Winning the war and getting to > the moon had only spinoff economic benefits. Solving the energy > problem has *direct* economic benefits. Most people aren't aware of > the costs they will pay for bad government choices, nor the benefits > that can be obtained from the right government choices. The problem > is renewable energy upsets the status quo, so who is there to lobby > for and publicise the right choices? > > Horace Heffner > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 14 15:54:19 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2ENatjk025025; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:36:55 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2ENap8K024978; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:36:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:36:51 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060314181820.035cab08@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 18:36:46 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: a meteorologist speaks on climate change In-Reply-To: <005901c647bc$b3ee4b00$6701a8c0@msns.flt.ptd.net> References: <005901c647bc$b3ee4b00$6701a8c0@msns.flt.ptd.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_5792359==.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67024 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=====================_5792359==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed revtec wrote: >Whether or not the global economy is good, it must become good to accomplish >all that must be done. You have that backward. If we begin to do all that must be done, this will improve the economy and create jobs. Good, purposeful, rewarding jobs. Also we will save tons of money after the projects are complete. Plus we will bankrupt our worst enemies, who are -- at this moment -- frantically trying to use oil wealth to buy nuclear weapons on the black market, to kill millions of us. And they will do it if they can -- don't kid yourself about that. Of course cold fusion will accomplish all of this at virtually no cost, but if we must use conventional technology, the sooner we get on with it, the better. >We are running out of runway. Who's for cutting the throttle and hitting >the brakes? I am! Emphatically. I understand little about economics, but I do not favor breakneck expansion of industrial output despite the consequences; or Americans eating ever-increasing amounts of food; or SUVs the size of Mack Trucks. (I have been in all-you-can-eat restaurants along I-85 lately, and I have noticed how obese Americans eat. These people shovel down 2 to 3 times more than I eat in a whole day! I would throw up if I ate that much!) As I said in chapter 21 of my book, I have nothing against materialism and I would never say that poor people who want automobiles and nice houses should not have them, but on the other hand mindless consumption satisfies no one -- and hurts many people and other species. We are "running out of runway" because we have paved over an obscene amount of land, instead of using telecommuting. We are stressed out because we work too hard. People in the first world should chill out, and spend more time sitting on the lawn, drinking wine and listening to Mozart. And it would help if the top 0.5% of the U.S. population would stop hogging half the wealth. There are no material shortages or serious limits. Our only problems are waste, greed and stupidity. - Jed --=====================_5792359==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" revtec wrote:

Whether or not the global economy is good, it must become good to accomplish
all that must be done.

You have that backward. If we begin to do all that must be done, this will improve the economy and create jobs. Good, purposeful, rewarding jobs. Also we will save tons of money after the projects are complete.

Plus we will bankrupt our worst enemies, who are -- at this moment -- frantically trying to use oil wealth to buy nuclear weapons on the black market, to kill millions of us. And they will do it if they can -- don't kid yourself about that.

Of course cold fusion will accomplish all of this at virtually no cost, but if we must use conventional technology, the sooner we get on with it, the better.


We are running out of runway.  Who's for cutting the throttle and hitting
the brakes?

I am! Emphatically. I understand little about economics, but I do not favor breakneck expansion of industrial output despite the consequences; or Americans eating ever-increasing amounts of food; or SUVs the size of Mack Trucks. (I have been in all-you-can-eat restaurants along I-85 lately, and I have noticed how obese Americans eat. These people shovel down 2 to 3 times more than I eat in a whole day! I would throw up if I ate that much!)

As I said in chapter 21 of my book, I have nothing against materialism and I would never say that poor people who want automobiles and nice houses should not have them, but on the other hand mindless consumption satisfies no one -- and hurts many people and other species. We are "running out of runway" because we have paved over an obscene amount of land, instead of using telecommuting. We are stressed out because we work too hard. People in the first world should chill out, and spend more time sitting on the lawn, drinking wine and listening to Mozart.

And it would help if the top 0.5% of the U.S. population would stop hogging half the wealth. There are no material shortages or serious limits. Our only problems are waste, greed and stupidity.

- Jed
--=====================_5792359==.ALT-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 14 19:52:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2F3qah2000318; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 19:52:36 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2F3qYON032760; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 19:52:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 19:52:34 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: cobalt hydroquinone X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: ID = 8324edccdbae1c0007349b58b3c30403 Reply-To: michael.foster@excite.com From: "Michael Foster" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: michael.foster@excite.com X-Mailer: PHP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20060315035231.7CAE12F603@xprdmxin.myway.com> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 22:52:31 -0500 (EST) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67025 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace wrote: > Speculation: cobalt hydroquinone may be a useful hydrogen storage > matrix.http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/03/060306213121.htm What makes you think that? Why not palladium hydroquinone or nickel hydroquinone, for example? You been staring at the periodic table and letting fuzzy thoughts wander in? M. _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 14 21:23:41 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2F5NImf010876; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 21:23:19 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2F5NGk3010864; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 21:23:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 21:23:16 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <20060315035231.7CAE12F603@xprdmxin.myway.com> References: <20060315035231.7CAE12F603@xprdmxin.myway.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <2482C5D9-C0AB-4EB1-88F7-174785C6E151@mtaonline.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: cobalt hydroquinone Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 20:23:11 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67026 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mar 14, 2006, at 6:52 PM, Michael Foster wrote: > > Horace wrote: > >> Speculation: cobalt hydroquinone may be a useful hydrogen storage >> matrix.http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/03/060306213121.htm > > What makes you think that? Why not palladium hydroquinone or nickel > hydroquinone, for example? You been staring at the periodic table > and letting fuzzy thoughts wander in? Yep - no time to think much lately. Actually, gold might work better if it can indeed form a hydroquinone compound. Cobalt has the possible advantage of being useful to control diffusion rates using magnetic fields. Again - just speculation. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 14 21:33:40 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2F5XMnt015320; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 21:33:23 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2F5XJUQ015296; Tue, 14 Mar 2006 21:33:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 21:33:19 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f In-Reply-To: <005901c647bc$b3ee4b00$6701a8c0@msns.flt.ptd.net> References: <005901c647bc$b3ee4b00$6701a8c0@msns.flt.ptd.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: a meteorologist speaks on climate change Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 20:33:15 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: <8nXe-.A.8uD.fc6FEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67027 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mar 14, 2006, at 2:11 PM, revtec wrote: > > > We are running out of runway. Who's for cutting the throttle and > hitting > the brakes? You must be kidding. We are spending millions on carbon industry subsidies. That is like carrying dead weight instead of fuel. In addition, our trade deficit is like a giant economic hemorrhage. I think the trick may be to get the carbon industry itself motivated to make the switch. That's where the big windfall bucks are right now. The question is whether the industry has leaders with enough foresight to invest the windfall heavily in renewables. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 00:05:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2F85Nu6009587; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 00:05:23 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2F85LNL009571; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 00:05:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 00:05:21 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=dXHc+HUOpiBUqreuF3Tixle9iZe1MoRZV4B1A+mFQzZIQUCE4vMx/E+mQGOU6lHE; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200633158511825@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electronium (*e-) Enrichment in Biological Transmutations? Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 01:05:11 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94081efc50a05f89169ac1f8cbdc91bd3a6350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.159 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67028 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII The ocean salt spray (14.7 PSI Beta-Atmosphere?) allows for the generation of positron-emitting Sodium-22 by spallation of neutrons off sodium or magnesium by cosmic rays. This might explain the strange 4.5 to 1 Na/K ratio in Sea Water Calcium forms carbonates that are less soluble in water than similar Magnesium compounds. The White Cliffs of Dover and Environs (British Isles) are sedimentary in origin. :-) Fred Sodium: http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/Na/geol.html Magnesium: http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/Mg/geol.html Potassium: http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/K/geol.html Calcium: http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/Ca/geol.html http://www.rexresearch.com/goldfein/goldfein.htm U.S. Army Mobility Equipment Research & Development Command, Ft. Belvoir, VA Report 2247 (May 1978) Abstract ~ "The purpose of the study was to determine whether recent disclosures of elemental transmutations occurring in biological entities have revealed new possible sources of energy. The works of Kervran, Komaki, and others were surveyed; and it was concluded that, granted the existence of such transmutations (Na to Mg, K to Ca, and Mn to Fe), then a net surplus of energy was also produced. A proposed mechanism was described in which Mg-Adenosine Triphosphate (MgATP), located in the mitochondrion of the cell, played a double role as an energy producer. In addition to the widely accepted biochemical role of MgATP in which it produces energy as it disintegrated part by part, MgATP can also be considered to be a cyclotron on a molecular scale. The MgATP when placed in layers one atop the other has all the attributes of a cyclotron in accordance with the requirements set forth by E.O. Lawrence, inventor of the cyclotron.? http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-bib_query?bibcode=2002ApPhL..81.1098K&db_key=PHY&data_type=HTML&format= Abstract~ "We have investigated effects of electric fields on the yield of secondary electron emission (SEE) from the primary electron bombardment on magnesium oxide (MgO) covering vertically grown multiwalled carbon nanotubes (MWCNTs). We observe that the yield of SEE increases up to at least 22 000 at a special condition. The strong local field generated by the sharp tip of vertically grown MWCNTs accelerates secondary electrons generated by primary electrons. This eventually gives rise to so called Townsend avalanche effect, generating huge number of secondary electrons in a MgO film. Emission mechanism for such a high SEE will be further discussed with energy spectrum analysis." ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

The ocean salt spray (14.7 PSI Beta-Atmosphere?) allows for the generation of  positron-emitting Sodium-22 by

spallation of neutrons off sodium or magnesium by cosmic rays.

This might explain the strange 4.5 to 1  Na/K ratio in Sea Water

Calcium forms carbonates that are less soluble in water than similar Magnesium  compounds.

The White Cliffs of Dover and Environs  (British Isles) are sedimentary in origin.  :-)

Fred

Sodium:

http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/Na/geol.html

Magnesium:

http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/Mg/geol.html

Potassium:

http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/K/geol.html

Calcium:

http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/Ca/geol.html

http://www.rexresearch.com/goldfein/goldfein.htm

U.S. Army Mobility Equipment Research & Development Command, Ft. Belvoir, VA
Report 2247 (May 1978)

Abstract ~  "The purpose of the study was to determine whether recent disclosures of elemental transmutations occurring in biological entities have revealed new possible sources of energy. The works of Kervran, Komaki, and others were surveyed; and it was concluded that, granted the existence of such transmutations (Na to Mg, K to Ca, and Mn to Fe), then a net surplus of energy was also produced. A proposed mechanism was described in which Mg-Adenosine Triphosphate (MgATP), located in the mitochondrion of the cell, played a double role as an energy producer. In addition to the widely accepted biochemical role of MgATP in which it produces energy as it disintegrated part by part, MgATP can also be considered to be a cyclotron on a molecular scale. The MgATP when placed in layers one atop the other has all the attributes of a cyclotron in accordance with the requirements set forth by E.O. Lawrence, inventor of the cyclotron.?

 

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-bib_query?bibcode=2002ApPhL..81.1098K&amp;db_key=PHY&amp;data_type=HTML&amp;format=

Abstract~ "We have investigated effects of electric fields on the yield of secondary electron emission (SEE) from the primary electron bombardment on magnesium oxide (MgO) covering vertically grown multiwalled carbon nanotubes (MWCNTs). We observe that the yield of SEE increases up to at least 22 000 at a special condition. The strong local field generated by the sharp tip of vertically grown MWCNTs accelerates secondary electrons generated by primary electrons. This eventually gives rise to so called Townsend avalanche effect, generating huge number of secondary electrons in a MgO film. Emission mechanism for such a high SEE will be further discussed with energy spectrum analysis."

 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 01:47:03 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2F9kr19021468; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 01:46:54 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2F9kqJc021458; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 01:46:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 01:46:52 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=KyQn1oyBNvxB0Xa4BhJfxnnottzXfYrvZwQtntMETBuTD2gEhwqmee1Z/SW6uziD; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006331594639433@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electronium (*e-) Enrichment in Biological Transmutations? Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 02:46:39 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940e964f0ff6f20746e1aa7b0d71844f2e6350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.75 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67029 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Note to a geologist friend. At least he was. :-) Lenr/Canr "Active Sites"? Dave, I find that the transitory Positronium Negative Ion Ps- may form a bound "Triad" (e- e+ e-) or "Electronium" (*e-) with a mass about 1,7 to 2.7 electron masses. It may be ubiquitous in nature. I'm looking for it (it may be down in the K shell of most atoms). Got any colleagues with a stash of positron-emitting Na-22 (~6,000 Curie/gram) that can transmute NaHCO3 (baking soda) into MgCO3, or KHCO3 into CaCO3 etc.? Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 3/15/2006 1:05:56 AM Subject: Re: Electronium (*e-) Enrichment in Biological Transmutations? The ocean salt spray (14.7 PSI Beta-Atmosphere?) allows for the generation of positron-emitting Sodium-22 by spallation of neutrons off sodium or magnesium by cosmic rays. This might explain the strange 4.5 to 1 Na/K ratio in Sea Water Calcium forms carbonates that are less soluble in water than similar Magnesium compounds. The White Cliffs of Dover and Environs (British Isles) are sedimentary in origin. :-) Fred Sodium: http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/Na/geol.html Magnesium: http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/Mg/geol.html Potassium: http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/K/geol.html Calcium: http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/Ca/geol.html http://www.rexresearch.com/goldfein/goldfein.htm U.S. Army Mobility Equipment Research & Development Command, Ft. Belvoir, VA Report 2247 (May 1978) Abstract ~ "The purpose of the study was to determine whether recent disclosures of elemental transmutations occurring in biological entities have revealed new possible sources of energy. The works of Kervran, Komaki, and others were surveyed; and it was concluded that, granted the existence of such transmutations (Na to Mg, K to Ca, and Mn to Fe), then a net surplus of energy was also produced. A proposed mechanism was described in which Mg-Adenosine Triphosphate (MgATP), located in the mitochondrion of the cell, played a double role as an energy producer. In addition to the widely accepted biochemical role of MgATP in which it produces energy as it disintegrated part by part, MgATP can also be considered to be a cyclotron on a molecular scale. The MgATP when placed in layers one atop the other has all the attributes of a cyclotron in accordance with the requirements set forth by E.O. Lawr! ence, inventor of the cyclotron.? http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-bib_query?bibcode=2002ApPhL..81.1098K&db_key=PHY&data_type=HTML&format= Abstract~ "We have investigated effects of electric fields on the yield of secondary electron emission (SEE) from the primary electron bombardment on magnesium oxide (MgO) covering vertically grown multiwalled carbon nanotubes (MWCNTs). We observe that the yield of SEE increases up to at least 22 000 at a special condition. The strong local field generated by the sharp tip of vertically grown MWCNTs accelerates secondary electrons generated by primary electrons. This eventually gives rise to so called Townsend avalanche effect, generating huge number of secondary electrons in a MgO film. Emission mechanism for such a high SEE will be further discussed with energy spectrum analysis." ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

Note to a geologist friend. At least he was.  :-)

Lenr/Canr "Active Sites"?

Dave,

I find that the transitory Positronium  Negative Ion Ps- may form

a bound "Triad"  (e- e+ e-) or "Electronium" (*e-) with a mass

about 1,7 to 2.7 electron masses. It may be ubiquitous in nature.

I'm looking for it (it may be down in the K shell of most atoms).

Got any colleagues with a stash of positron-emitting Na-22  (~6,000 Curie/gram)

that can transmute NaHCO3 (baking soda) into MgCO3, or KHCO3 into CaCO3 etc.? 

Fred

----- Original Message -----
Sent: 3/15/2006 1:05:56 AM
Subject: Re: Electronium (*e-) Enrichment in Biological Transmutations?

The ocean salt spray (14.7 PSI Beta-Atmosphere?) allows for the generation of  positron-emitting Sodium-22 by

spallation of neutrons off sodium or magnesium by cosmic rays.

This might explain the strange 4.5 to 1  Na/K ratio in Sea Water

Calcium forms carbonates that are less soluble in water than similar Magnesium  compounds.

The White Cliffs of Dover and Environs  (British Isles) are sedimentary in origin.  :-)

Fred

Sodium:

http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/Na/geol.html

Magnesium:

http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/Mg/geol.html

Potassium:

http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/K/geol.html

Calcium:

http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/Ca/geol.html

http://www.rexresearch.com/goldfein/goldfein.htm

U.S. Army Mobility Equipment Research & Development Command, Ft. Belvoir, VA
Report 2247 (May 1978)

Abstract ~  "The purpose of the study was to determine whether recent disclosures of elemental transmutations occurring in biological entities have revealed new possible sources of energy. The works of Kervran, Komaki, and others were surveyed; and it was concluded that, granted the existence of such transmutations (Na to Mg, K to Ca, and Mn to Fe), then a net surplus of energy was also produced. A proposed mechanism was described in which Mg-Adenosine Triphosphate (MgATP), located in the mitochondrion of the cell, played a double role as an energy producer. In addition to the widely accepted biochemical role of MgATP in which it produces energy as it disintegrated part by part, MgATP can also be considered to be a cyclotron on a molecular scale. The MgATP when placed in layers one atop the other has all the attributes of a cyclotron in accordance with the requirements set forth by E.O. Lawr! ence, inventor of the cyclotron.?

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-bib_query?bibcode=2002ApPhL..81.1098K&amp;db_key=PHY&amp;data_type=HTML&amp;format=

Abstract~ "We have investigated effects of electric fields on the yield of secondary electron emission (SEE) from the primary electron bombardment on magnesium oxide (MgO) covering vertically grown multiwalled carbon nanotubes (MWCNTs). We observe that the yield of SEE increases up to at least 22 000 at a special condition. The strong local field generated by the sharp tip of vertically grown MWCNTs accelerates secondary electrons generated by primary electrons. This eventually gives rise to so called Townsend avalanche effect, generating huge number of secondary electrons in a MgO film. Emission mechanism for such a high SEE will be further discussed with energy spectrum analysis."

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 02:30:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FATfGV004936; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 02:29:41 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2FATdBT004920; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 02:29:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 02:29:39 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <4417EC77.2040604@usfamily.net> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 04:29:11 -0600 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: a meteorologist speaks on climate change References: <4416500C.3020602@usfamily.net> <001601c64760$447b1f70$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> In-Reply-To: <001601c64760$447b1f70$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67030 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Nick Palmer wrote: > Thomas Malloy wrote to the "lone wolf" meteorologist Roy Spencer and > was directed by the reply to his website of "serious articles" > http://www.tcsdaily.com/Authors.aspx?id=267 > > Mr Spencer further poured scorn on the piece of popular journalism at > http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0222-27.htm by saying "I would say > that is the most irresponsible piece of journalism I have ever read on > climate issues" > Dr. Spencer contends that water vapor is the most potent greenhouse gas. Undersea volcanoes could well account for the observed events; melting of the edges of the arctic icecaps, thickening of the centers of the icecaps, and increase in temperature generally. > Is this man not one of the most irresponsible people you can imagine? > That depends on how you look at it, Nick. IMHO if you are right, there's nothing we can do about it anyway. C to C AM has had three interviewes, who questioned the Global Warming hypothesis, one of whom made the case that we are entering an ice age. Later Keith Nagel wrote; Dow index / Jan 2000 - 11,500 Jan 2006 - 10,780 aggregate US economic growth, -6% Roaring, Rev? How about whimpering like a pimpslapped bitch. No point in addressing the rest. Please reconnect to reality and try again. Operators are standing by. whimpering compaired to what? The youngest people who can remember the great depression are pushing 70. The system can't be even throtled back without crashing. --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 02:30:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FAUkBP005701; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 02:30:47 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2FAUiev005674; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 02:30:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 02:30:44 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <4417ECC3.60203@usfamily.net> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 04:30:27 -0600 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electronium (*e-) & Sodium-22 Laced Electrolysis Cells References: <410-220063214171720250@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <410-220063214171720250@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67031 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Frederick Sparber > *To: *vortex-l > *Sent:* 3/14/2006 4:14:51 AM > *Subject:* Re: Electronium (*e-) & Sodium-22 Laced > Electrolysis Cells > > FWIW, Jones. > > A gram of Sodium-22 (2.605 year half-life) undergoes 2.3e14 > 0.55 MeV positron (e+) decays per second (6,225 Curie) > leading to an excited Neon-22 nucleus that emits a 1.27 MeV > gamma (sufficient energy > for providing the 1.02 MeV required for additional > electron-positron pair production). > > This brings the sort of circuit that the late Paul Brown used in the Nuclear and Tritium Batteries. --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 04:33:19 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FCWvUk029594; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 04:32:57 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2FCWlrZ029517; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 04:32:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 04:32:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <002201c64828$77b43bb0$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> From: "Nick Palmer" To: References: <4416500C.3020602@usfamily.net> <001601c64760$447b1f70$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <001101c64772$fb146720$6701a8c0@msns.flt.ptd.net> Subject: Re: a meteorologist speaks on climate change Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:03:11 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67032 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jeff Fink (revtec) wrote < conclusion is, we should not shoot ourselves in the economic foot to gain > reductions equivalent to only, say, 10% in emissions.">> No I didn't "miss" it. This line of seductive B.S. is frequently trotted out by some as a reason not to get to grips with the problem directly. I first heard it when I was talking to one of the politicians (Economics Minister) in my own fair Jersey about 10 years ago when he metaphorically patted me on the head and (paraphrasing) said "don't you realise, little Green person, that we need more economic growth to pay for the environmental clean up that you say is needed"! This is a bit like a drug user saying they need even more drugs to get their life back in order... This "economic foot shooting" was America's main line of defence against the Kyoto protocol. I have to say that most of the rest of the world does not accept it any more (if they ever fully did) - only in America does the propaganda machine, stoked by "Big Oil", continue with this one. Economics is by no means an exact field of knowledge (the older I get, the more I wonder if any field is!) but other thoughts on the subject say that not only will energy conservation measures save money in the medium term but the economic activity associated with changing towards more energy coming from renewable resources will actually be benign growth rather than the weird and twisted trillion dollar debt ridden and, frankly, insane bubble state that the US economy is in at the moment. Maybe it's true that America cannot borrow any more to invest in sustainable technology but unless you do something to halt your excessive demand for oil energy, you are doomed anyway because we have probably passed the peak of economic extraction of oil. The price will continue to rise. We will never run out of oil because, as the price rises, new areas would become economic to extract, but the demand will fall as renewable technologies become cheaper than oil. Once we are primarily running on a portfolio of energy sources, dominated by renewable technologies, we are home free. Global politics will be more stable by orders of magnitude. There is a psychological shift that often happens to people once they use renewable energy, recycle etc - they get less greedy. Gordon Gecko ( in the film "Wall Street" famously opined that "greed is good - greed works" and that is true but the philosophy has limits - it does not work for ever - like those 60 stone humans who can no longer move out of bed, more greed becomes counterproductive. A cancerous growth is faster than sustainable growth but not as good! Current economic ideas about growth are rapidly dating.Sustainable economics states that unbridled growth, with concern only for the narrow bottom financial line and not all the consequences of that growth, is ultimately insane because, sooner or later, the other systems that we depend on ( such as air, water and stable climate etc) will become degraded and will bite us "in the ass" as you Yanks so charmingly say. In one of the early "Infinite Energy" magazines I wrote:- "The developing Third World is a crucial aspect of any environmental strategy. If the Third world industrialises to the same degree that we in the developed world have, a simple calculation shows that total demand for resources, by the middle of the next century, will rise to around ten times current levels which is undoubtedly unsustainable, but the Third World must develop to stabilise world population and so environmentalists were rather caught on the horns of a dilemma. What needed to be done to re-jig the consumer society was so huge that I frankly doubted that we could have done it in time. New Energy will give us that time." I didn't mean there that what was necessary was not possible or achievable in relatively short order; I was actually referring to the difficulty in convincing people that it needed to be done. "Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain". The above is why you have a rabid environmentalist like me in the Vortex group - I still believe that LENR or something similar will be our saviour from human stupidity and greed. Nick Palmer From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 06:52:43 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FEqZTb026537; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 06:52:35 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2FEqWe4026518; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 06:52:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 06:52:32 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060315093638.0376d6c0@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:52:24 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: a meteorologist speaks on climate change In-Reply-To: <002201c64828$77b43bb0$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> References: <4416500C.3020602@usfamily.net> <001601c64760$447b1f70$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <001101c64772$fb146720$6701a8c0@msns.flt.ptd.net> <002201c64828$77b43bb0$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67033 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Nick Palmer wrote: >I first heard it when I was talking to one of the politicians >(Economics Minister) in my own fair Jersey about 10 years ago when >he metaphorically patted me on the head and (paraphrasing) said >"don't you realise, little Green person, that we need more economic >growth to pay for the environmental clean up that you say is >needed"! This is a bit like a drug user saying they need even more >drugs to get their life back in order... That's true. That's the point I was trying to make. We need less economic activity, not more. A large fraction of "economic activity" is annoying waste that nobody really wants: things like traffic jams, and overly-bright street lights that interfere with sleep and disrupt nocturnal species. On the other hand, we do need a high level of industrial R&D capability to fix these problems. For example, a third-world country mired in hopeless poverty will not invent a fiber-optic telecommunting infrastructure to reduce traffic jams. But once these things are invented, poor but educated countries India or Pakistan can build a telecom system and use it to offshore jobs from the U.S! I hope they are also using it to reduce traffic jams within India, by building small, satellite offices to reduce commuting distances. It would be ironic of programmers in India drive for an hour through choked traffic in order to do on-line work for companies that are thousands of miles away. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 07:18:24 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FFICM7003723; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:18:12 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2FFI9NW003697; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:18:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:18:09 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Austria: It ain't hopeless Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:18:04 -0600 Message-ID: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B57DC3E@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Austria: It ain't hopeless Thread-Index: AcZIQ6gbd0vZPvDES2qZH1D6ae5GLw== From: "Zell, Chris" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Mar 2006 15:18:05.0432 (UTC) FILETIME=[A88ADF80:01C64843] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2FFI6jw003669 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67034 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From the Financial Times Jan. 30, 2006 page 6 "In 2003, nearly 70 percent of Austria's domestically produced power came from renewable sources. Biomass fuelled 11.2 percent of Austria's total primary energy supply and 21 per cent of heat production.... Not only do forests grow back, they absorb carbon dioxide from the air as they grow." "With almost half of Austria covered in forests, wood fired schemes have grown in popularity.... Biomass energy is a growing business in Austria" "A new market in wood pellets - compressed sawdust that is drier, cleaner and easier to transport than other biomass fuels - was key to the spread of domestic boilers" Austria is pushing biomass in EU and having success doing it. Much of the biomass comes from by- products of existing forestry such as sawdust, chips and low grade logs. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 07:56:55 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FFjra8012129; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:45:54 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2FFjlsa012086; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:45:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 07:45:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060315154335145.234F2B80008A@mwinf3211.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060315154335.009e8d00@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 15:43:35 +0000 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: [O.T. - N.T.] Apocalypse Now? 8-) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67035 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ================================================= Renowned Bird Flu Expert Warns: Be Prepared ------------------------------------------------- March 14, 2006 - Robert G. Webster is one of the few bird flu experts confident enough to answer the key question: Will the avian flu switch from posing a terrible hazard to birds to becoming a real threat to humans? There are "about even odds at this time for the virus to learn how to transmit human to human," he told ABC's "World News Tonight." Webster, the Rosemary Thomas Chair at St. Jude Children's Research Hospital in Memphis, Tenn., is credited as the first scientist to find the link between human flu and bird flu. Webster and his team of scientists are working to find a way to beat the virus if it morphs. He has even been dubbed the Flu Hunter. Right now, H5N1, a type of avian influenza virus, has confined itself to birds. It can be transmitted from bird to human but only by direct contact with the droppings and excretions of infected birds. But viruses mutate, and the big fear among the world's scientists is that the bird flu virus will join the human flu virus, change its genetic code and emerge as a new and deadly flu that can spread through the air from human to human. If the virus does mutate, it does not necessarily mean it will be as deadly to people as it is to birds. But experts such as Webster say they must prepare for the worst. "I personally believe it will happen and make personal preparations," said Webster, who has stored a three-month supply of food and water at his home in case of an outbreak. ------------------------------------------------ Frightening Warning ------------------------------------------------ "Society just can't accept the idea that 50 percent of the population could die. And I think we have to face that possibility," Webster said. "I'm sorry if I'm making people a little frightened, but I feel it's my role." Most scientists won't put it that bluntly, but many acknowledge that Webster could be right about the flu becoming transmissible among humans, even though they believe the 50 percent figure could be too high. Researcher Dr. Anne Moscona at New York Weill Cornell Medical Center said that a human form may not mutate this year or next - or ever - but it would be foolish to ignore the dire consequences if it did. "If bird flu becomes not bird flu but mutates into a form that can be transmitted between humans, we could then have a spread like wildfire across the globe," Moscona said. ================================================= Well, the Apocalyse does have a section where 200,000,000 horsemen slay one third of the human race. 8-) Cheers, Cassandra See also, http://www.fluwikie.com/index.php?n=About.About Jonas From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 09:38:08 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FHbkq7007671; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:37:46 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2FHbXSl007610; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:37:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:37:33 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:37:25 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8166E4211646C-1EB4-1195@mblkn-m07.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <2.2.32.20060315154335.009e8d00@pop.freeserve.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.20060315154335.009e8d00@pop.freeserve.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: [O.T. - N.T.] Apocalypse Now? 8-) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.71 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67036 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Grimer Well, the Apocalyse does have a section where 200,000,000 horsemen slay one third of the human race. 8-) <><><><><><><> Cassie, Sounds a bit like the Raison Strain in Ted Dekker's circle trilogy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Dekker Ted's works are sometimes listed as religion; but, I think 'inspirational' would be a better term . . . kind of an adult Narnia. Hmmm, a deadly disease whose name in English is 'reason'. -Thomas of Hunter ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 10:07:46 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FI7SFM022366; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:07:29 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2FI7QcK022336; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:07:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:07:26 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <8C8166E4211646C-1EB4-1195@mblkn-m07.sysops.aol.com> References: <2.2.32.20060315154335.009e8d00@pop.freeserve.net> <8C8166E4211646C-1EB4-1195@mblkn-m07.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: [O.T. - N.T.] Apocalypse Now? 8-) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:07:17 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67037 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mar 15, 2006, at 8:37 AM, hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Grimer > > Well, the Apocalyse does have a section where 200,000,000 > horsemen slay one third of the human race. 8-) If they are each on horseback that's going to make for an awful lot of horse dung! 8^) The bright side is that could be used to make a lot of methane. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 10:31:43 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FIVWwS000406; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:31:32 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2FIVUuC000388; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:31:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:31:30 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060315093638.0376d6c0@mindspring.com> References: <4416500C.3020602@usfamily.net> <001601c64760$447b1f70$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <001101c64772$fb146720$6701a8c0@msns.flt.ptd.net> <002201c64828$77b43bb0$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <7.0.1.0.2.20060315093638.0376d6c0@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: a meteorologist speaks on climate change Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:31:26 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67038 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mar 15, 2006, at 5:52 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > Nick Palmer wrote: > >> I first heard it when I was talking to one of the politicians >> (Economics Minister) in my own fair Jersey about 10 years ago when >> he metaphorically patted me on the head and (paraphrasing) said >> "don't you realise, little Green person, that we need more >> economic growth to pay for the environmental clean up that you say >> is needed"! This is a bit like a drug user saying they need even >> more drugs to get their life back in order... > > That's true. That's the point I was trying to make. We need less > economic activity, not more. A large fraction of "economic > activity" is annoying waste that nobody really wants: things like > traffic jams, and overly-bright street lights that interfere with > sleep and disrupt nocturnal species. With the right policies we can have have economic activity like never before - and all to the good side. Vehicle replacement with energy efficient vehicles is a huge economic opportunity. Building a new energy infrastructure is a huge opportunity, especially in housing retrofits. Manufacture of renewable energy generation systems, not just for a few countries, but for the world, is a colossal opportunity. We have the opportunity to make the WWII boom look like a minor blip. Before this can happen, unfortunately, the people have to wake up to what is going on, what could happen depending of courses of action chosen, and what it all means to them directly. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 10:51:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FIpA3d009878; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:51:10 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2FIp9nP009850; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:51:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:51:09 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Horace Heffner Subject: Solar chimney design enhancement Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:51:04 -0900 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67039 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The tops of solar towers, also known as solar chimneys, should be ringed with vertical layers of inverted airfoils. In windy conditions, nearly always present at high altitudes in many locations, these inverted airfoils about the periphery, with training edges to the inside, have the effect of reducing air pressure at the top of the chimney. They direct horizontal airflow upwards, thus reducing air pressure in the chimney. This enhances the Bernoulli effect already present for such chimneys. This pressure drop increases airflow and thus turbine output at the base of the chimney. The airfoils very handily reduce, not increase load on the structure. Use of variable pitch airfoils permits controlled feathering and continual operation in high winds. Airfoil pitch control may also be of use in preventing resonant vibration buildup in high wind conditions. The use of such airfoils increases the optimal chimney aspect ratio to less than that which is optimal without the airfoils. A typical (height to diameter) aspect ratio for solar towers is currently 6. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 11:38:18 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FJbiG8000322; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:37:44 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2FJbeee032754; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:37:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:37:40 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060315143108.0374ecb8@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:37:34 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: a meteorologist speaks on climate change In-Reply-To: References: <4416500C.3020602@usfamily.net> <001601c64760$447b1f70$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <001101c64772$fb146720$6701a8c0@msns.flt.ptd.net> <002201c64828$77b43bb0$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <7.0.1.0.2.20060315093638.0376d6c0@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67040 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: >With the right policies we can have have economic activity like never >before - and all to the good side. Vehicle replacement with energy >efficient vehicles is a huge economic opportunity. I disagree. This will only call for the construction of some production lines, which is not a big deal. The cars will be replaced as the old ones wear out, which means there will be no increase or decrease in economic activity. >Building a new energy infrastructure is a huge opportunity . . . This would be expensive! And worth it, we hope. >. . . especially in housing tetrofits. Not such a big deal. In the U.S. $1,000 per house would do wonders. $10,000 per house would improve that by much. >Manufacture of renewable energy generation systems, not just for a >few countries, but for the world, is a colossal opportunity. Yes indeed! CF, on the other hand, would cost less than nothing, and CF all by itself would only reduce economic activity, not increase it. If we end up consuming the same amount of energy with the same set of machines, we reduce the world economy by $2.8 trillion per year, and add nothing. That outcome seems unlikely to me. The money people save is likely to go somewhere else instead. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 12:42:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FKgKbB030090; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:42:21 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2FKgHF0030051; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:42:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:42:17 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060315143108.0374ecb8@mindspring.com> References: <4416500C.3020602@usfamily.net> <001601c64760$447b1f70$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <001101c64772$fb146720$6701a8c0@msns.flt.ptd.net> <002201c64828$77b43bb0$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <7.0.1.0.2.20060315093638.0376d6c0@mindspring.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060315143108.0374ecb8@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: a meteorologist speaks on climate change Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:42:06 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67042 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mar 15, 2006, at 10:37 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > Horace Heffner wrote: > >> With the right policies we can have have economic activity like never >> before - and all to the good side. Vehicle replacement with energy >> efficient vehicles is a huge economic opportunity. > > I disagree. This will only call for the construction of some > production lines, which is not a big deal. The cars will be > replaced as the old ones wear out, which means there will be no > increase or decrease in economic activity. There is a good possibility of retrofits. Also, gas guzzling SUVs and trucks will probably end up in the junk yard much faster than before. I think the transition period to new vehicle types must necessarily result in increased economic activity. Additionally, entire new career types will develop. Being an auto mechanic or running a filling station will just not be the same! What you are saying is true in the long run from a world perspective. The problem in the transportation area is more along the lines of *where* the main interim activity will occur. My impression is that it will not be in the US unless significant changes in attitude occur. It is likely that building of entirely new vehicle classes, like inexpensive personal commuter vehicles, will eventually reduce overall economic activity. Similarly, reduced vehicle usage due to changes in commuting habits should reduce vehicle dollar sales volume. However, economic efficiency gains improve quality of life, even ignoring environmental quality issues. And maybe that was your original point - that we can reduce "economic activity" while simultaneously improving quality of life. > > >> Building a new energy infrastructure is a huge opportunity . . . > > This would be expensive! And worth it, we hope. > >> . . . especially in housing tetrofits. > > Not such a big deal. In the U.S. $1,000 per house would do wonders. > $10,000 per house would improve that by much. Here it depends on just what kinds of retrofits are being made. I am assuming here that these might include addition of solar energy gathering, general energy storage facilities, utility coordinating computers/communications, and vehicle energizing facilities. > > >> Manufacture of renewable energy generation systems, not just for a >> few countries, but for the world, is a colossal opportunity. > > Yes indeed! CF, on the other hand, would cost less than nothing, > and CF all by itself would only reduce economic activity, not > increase it. If we end up consuming the same amount of energy with > the same set of machines, we reduce the world economy by $2.8 > trillion per year, and add nothing. That outcome seems unlikely to > me. The money people save is likely to go somewhere else instead. Renewable energy is achieved by the replacement of energy mining with energy device manufacturing. I think this can be achieved at comparable costs per BTU for petroleum, as shown in: http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/BigPicture.pdf and substantiated in: http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/EnergyCosts.pdf. This means that trillions of dollars per year are moved from light labor activity (mining/exploration) to a labor intensive manufacturing activity. The ultimate product is the same, the value of 400 quads/year. However, the economic multiplier for labor intensive activities, like manufacturing, is higher. More peripheral support jobs are created, e.g. teachers, doctors, store clerks, etc. The quality of life for the masses is improved. This is offset by a reduction in income for the comparatively few who own the petroleum infrastructure. However, if clever, the petro-people are the very people who can benefit the most by having the wisdom to jump on the renewable energy bandwagon as soon as possible with their windfall profits. If not, they will ultimately go the way of the dinosaur. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 13:05:20 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FL56io008313; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:05:06 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2FL54Tn008286; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:05:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:05:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.1.20060315145536.01d54fd8@pop> References: <4416500C.3020602@usfamily.net> <001601c64760$447b1f70$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <001101c64772$fb146720$6701a8c0@msns.flt.ptd.net> <002201c64828$77b43bb0$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <7.0.1.0.2.20060315093638.0376d6c0@mindspring.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060315143108.0374ecb8@mindspring.com> <6.1.1.1.1.20060315145536.01d54fd8@pop> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: a meteorologist speaks on climate change Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:04:56 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67043 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mar 15, 2006, at 11:01 AM, Philip Winestone wrote: > > In certain countries such as India and Africa, small, self- > contained systems, such as for pumping irrigation water, or > powering comfort fans, can work wonders. For countries such as the > US and Canada, renewable power such as solar energy is quite > inadequate. What is the basis for this position? Wind rose data for mountain top regions in northern latitudes like Canada and Alaska show enormous energy potential. The southern US has enormous solar generating potential, and Canada has much to offer in trade in the US/Canada energy grid. The principle technological problems are renewable energy storage and transmission. There are also the lessor problems of generating power during windmill feathering in high winds, and operating in arctic conditions, but these problems are solvable. There is good geothermal potential in the US and Canada as well as bio-fuel potential. In addition, renewable energy can be imported from efficient solar generating countries using silicon or nitrogen based energy transport systems. See supporting material and refs at http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/. > Power sources such as small hydro, where to some extent the power > output is consistent, is attractive, as is biomass to some extent. > But in order to capitalize on biomass, there have to be some > logistical structures in place. Yes, major infrastructure changes have to occur to convert to renewable energy. However, these infrastructure changes and the economic efficiencies occurring as a result of these changes should have a dramatic and positive effect on the world economy and the quality of life. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 13:22:02 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FLLmOb019394; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:21:49 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2FLLlXo019383; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:21:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:21:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060315161406.0374ecb8@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:21:28 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: a meteorologist speaks on climate change In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.1.20060315145536.01d54fd8@pop> References: <4416500C.3020602@usfamily.net> <001601c64760$447b1f70$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <001101c64772$fb146720$6701a8c0@msns.flt.ptd.net> <002201c64828$77b43bb0$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <7.0.1.0.2.20060315093638.0376d6c0@mindspring.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060315143108.0374ecb8@mindspring.com> <6.1.1.1.1.20060315145536.01d54fd8@pop> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67044 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Philip Winestone wrote: >For countries such as the US and Canada, renewable power such as >solar energy is quite inadequate. That's incorrect. The U.S. wind power in the top ~5 states is larger than the power from all of the oil produced in the Middle East. (That is, wind power from places where turbines are allowed, excluding national parks, bird migratory lanes, urban areas and so on.) Solar power in the southeast could also easily supply all U.S. energy needs. As I recall, advanced, large scale solar in the Mohave desert could probably supply the entire world with energy, but the cost would be prohibitive. There are areas in the U.S. without much renewable power, such as Georgia and Washington DC. (If we could harness stupidity, cupidity and hot air, Washington alone could supply the whole nation.) >Power sources such as small hydro, where to some extent the power >output is consistent, is attractive, as is biomass to some extent. Hydro is tapped out. Biomass is far too small to make a significant difference. Biomass is a form of solar energy which happens to be less than 0.1% efficient, which is ridiculous. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 13:30:50 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FLUYTK023899; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:30:35 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2FLUWU9023874; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:30:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:30:32 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:30:27 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8168ECFB64E44-22B8-116A@mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <410-22006351016362720@ix.netcom.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <410-22006351016362720@ix.netcom.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday March 10, 2006 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.138 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67045 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Our dear curmudgeon has responded. Terry <><><><><><><> From: "Robert Park" Add to Address Book Date: 2006/03/15 Wed PM 03:09:08 EST To: "Terry Blanton" Subject: Re: Sonofusion go retire yourself! >>> Terry Blanton 3/10/2006 9:06 PM >>> Greetings Bob, You might like to examine Dr. Putterman's involvement in the referenced issues before you pass judgement. Don't you think it's time you retired? History can be quite ascerbic. Warmest regards, Terry <><><><><><><> -----Original Message----- From: aki@ix.netcom.com WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 10 Mar 06 Washington, DC 1. BUBBLE FUSION: NEWS OF SCIENCE THAT WON'T CHANGE YOUR LIFE. The story sounded vaguely familiar. A claim was made in the month of March that deuterium fusion had been produced in a desktop experiment. However, experienced nuclear physicists, using the same experimental setup except for better detection equipment, found no evidence of fusion. By early summer, the bubble burst. "Cold fusion" in 1989? No, "bubble fusion" in 2002, http://bobpark.physics.umd.edu/WN02/wn030102.html . But like cold fusion, the corpse of bubble fusion keeps twitching. In 2003, Rusi Taleyarkhan, who made the claim, moved from Oak Ridge to Purdue University. There he claimed to confirm fusion. Others found nothing. Last week, citing "extremely serious" concerns, Purdue announced a full review of Taleyarkhan's work. ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 14:25:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FMPOrg023743; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:25:25 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2FMPMjN023729; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:25:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:25:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060315170143.0376d6c0@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 17:25:12 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: a meteorologist speaks on climate change In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.1.20060315163209.01d7af90@pop> References: <4416500C.3020602@usfamily.net> <001601c64760$447b1f70$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <001101c64772$fb146720$6701a8c0@msns.flt.ptd.net> <002201c64828$77b43bb0$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <7.0.1.0.2.20060315093638.0376d6c0@mindspring.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060315143108.0374ecb8@mindspring.com> <6.1.1.1.1.20060315145536.01d54fd8@pop> <7.0.1.0.2.20060315161406.0374ecb8@mindspring.com> <6.1.1.1.1.20060315163209.01d7af90@pop> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <3hOy0.A.tyF.SRJGEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67047 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Philip Winestone wrote: >Sorry - but I've been there. I was an "alternate energy" engineer >quite a few years ago, specializing in solar . . . What kind of solar? PV or direct thermal? Direct, large scale thermal plants were built 20 years ago by Luz, and they take less land area than coal or nuclear plants do when you factor in the size of the mines. They take much less land than hydroelectricity does, when you factor in the land that is submerged by the lake behind the dam. They are more efficient than PV, and about 250 times more efficient than biomass. See Strirling Energy, Sempra Energy and others. They are building a 500 MW unit and a 900 MW unit. These units do not take much land. See: http://www.stirlingenergy.com/news/Solars%20Day%20in%20the%20Sun%20-%20WSJ%2011-17-05.pdf Stirling claims that a solar farm 100 miles square could supply all U.S. electricity. Others have made similar claims. There are plenty of places in the Southwest desert ares where you could hide an installation as large as this -- not that you would actually put it all in one location. See: http://www.stirlingenergy.com/faq.asp?Type=all >Wind power is inconsistent (like I said). For many applications this does not matter. > Solar power - if you put panels on every square metre of the US > - may supply lots of energy. Panels -- meaning PV. This is the wrong approach in the U.S., with present day technology, although it is going great guns in Japan. Japan has different land use and weather parameters. > Prohibitive cost? Yup. Stirling expects it will cost 10 cents per kWh in their first installations. Others estimate 6 cents. That's expensive but not prohibitive. The cost would fall to 2 cents if these things were developed on a large scale. (That is true of wind, as well.) PV electricity in Japan is now cheaper than centrally generated power, which is admittedly the world's most expensive. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 14:36:46 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FMaYki028117; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:36:34 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2FMaVVL028093; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:36:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:36:31 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060315172915.0374e078@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 17:36:24 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Good summary of solar generators Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67048 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: See: http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_37/b3950067_mz018.htm Quotes: The price per kilowatt-hour (kWh) that SCE will pay is confidential and must be approved by the California Public Utilities Commission. But there's little doubt that the contract will get a thumbs-up, perhaps as soon as next month. One reason: SCE says the price it negotiated is so attractive -- "well below the 11.33 cents per kWh" it now pays for peak power -- that it won't seek any subsidies from the state. Osborn says that a dish farm of 11 miles square could produce as much electricity as the 2,050 MW from Hoover Dam. "We're already looking at a half-dozen one-square-mile sites in the California desert," he says, "and there's lots and lots more territory there." [NOTE: Lake Mead, behind the Hoover Dam, takes up 247 square miles. Of course, people enjoy Lake Mead, but that is not true of many other hydroelectric projects, especially in Canada and South America. http://www.usbr.gov/lc/hooverdam/faqs/lakefaqs.html] - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 12:11:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FKBado017941; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:11:36 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2FKBYBw017900; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:11:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:11:34 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Sender:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=xKkqU/CWJ3oJDMpfbb8FnwSPJVPACPJf7vyDcFm7LHj52JYn1L8KcS9otuagMWwEaPJ85PpujcVDlNbOt9JRAF4noJ6VpoUctt4vCRE1BXP0jOToy35ZdRzdz3LqikmJVpG0v9321DQ2evJpnAPth+j1Yu2mDMjHE8rR2g1FSvI= ; Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.1.20060315145536.01d54fd8@pop> X-Sender: philip.winestone@pop X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.1.1 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 15:01:04 -0500 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Philip Winestone Subject: Re: a meteorologist speaks on climate change In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060315143108.0374ecb8@mindspring.com> References: <4416500C.3020602@usfamily.net> <001601c64760$447b1f70$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <001101c64772$fb146720$6701a8c0@msns.flt.ptd.net> <002201c64828$77b43bb0$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <7.0.1.0.2.20060315093638.0376d6c0@mindspring.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060315143108.0374ecb8@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67041 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends5 Status: O X-Status: Manufacture of renewable energy generation systems, not just for a few countries, but for the world, is a colossal opportunity. In certain countries such as India and Africa, small, self-contained systems, such as for pumping irrigation water, or powering comfort fans, can work wonders. For countries such as the US and Canada, renewable power such as solar energy is quite inadequate. Power sources such as small hydro, where to some extent the power output is consistent, is attractive, as is biomass to some extent. But in order to capitalize on biomass, there have to be some logistical structures in place. P. At 02:37 PM 3/15/2006 -0500, you wrote: >Horace Heffner wrote: > >>With the right policies we can have have economic activity like never >>before - and all to the good side. Vehicle replacement with energy >>efficient vehicles is a huge economic opportunity. > >I disagree. This will only call for the construction of some production >lines, which is not a big deal. The cars will be replaced as the old ones >wear out, which means there will be no increase or decrease in economic >activity. > > >>Building a new energy infrastructure is a huge opportunity . . . > >This would be expensive! And worth it, we hope. > >>. . . especially in housing tetrofits. > >Not such a big deal. In the U.S. $1,000 per house would do wonders. >$10,000 per house would improve that by much. > > >>Manufacture of renewable energy generation systems, not just for a few >>countries, but for the world, is a colossal opportunity. > >Yes indeed! CF, on the other hand, would cost less than nothing, and CF >all by itself would only reduce economic activity, not increase it. If we >end up consuming the same amount of energy with the same set of machines, >we reduce the world economy by $2.8 trillion per year, and add nothing. >That outcome seems unlikely to me. The money people save is likely to go >somewhere else instead. > >- Jed > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 13:50:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2FLogja002863; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:50:42 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2FLobk2002829; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:50:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 13:50:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Sender:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=0hIlVMlkyam9SXhq1rArYsyw2+LHlikjMQMRN/T0aPqdo3/+7MXTCvmviDdaXFUPMbfdlA9HaNUNzxmJD2DfQOFVETqA3uGHjcyiregrV5m/ngnJYib6zxOzz7e0LIkQN5uBHYtqIW30LQpIZfeRduiDe7eJqvhJ2wOEFZSIkFQ= ; Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.1.20060315163209.01d7af90@pop> X-Sender: philip.winestone@pop X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.1.1 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:39:59 -0500 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Philip Winestone Subject: Re: a meteorologist speaks on climate change In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060315161406.0374ecb8@mindspring.com> References: <4416500C.3020602@usfamily.net> <001601c64760$447b1f70$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <001101c64772$fb146720$6701a8c0@msns.flt.ptd.net> <002201c64828$77b43bb0$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <7.0.1.0.2.20060315093638.0376d6c0@mindspring.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060315143108.0374ecb8@mindspring.com> <6.1.1.1.1.20060315145536.01d54fd8@pop> <7.0.1.0.2.20060315161406.0374ecb8@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67046 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends5 Status: O X-Status: Sorry - but I've been there. I was an "alternate energy" engineer quite a few years ago, specializing in solar, both in North America and overseas in India, Pakistan and Thailand. Wind power is inconsistent (like I said). Solar power - if you put panels on every square metre of the US - may supply lots of energy. Prohibitive cost? Yup. We also have three levels of hot air in Canada: Federal, Provincial and Municipal. Lots of potential there. Small hydro? Location-specific, but as I said, consistent. Biomass? Lots of logging here in Canada, as well as crop waste; lots of potential. Some years ago the Tennessee Valley Authority had some excellent, quite ambitious plans for harnessing biomass. Like I said, they tackled the logistics and the rest fell into place. P. At 04:21 PM 3/15/2006 -0500, you wrote: >Philip Winestone wrote: > >>For countries such as the US and Canada, renewable power such as solar >>energy is quite inadequate. > >That's incorrect. The U.S. wind power in the top ~5 states is larger than >the power from all of the oil produced in the Middle East. (That is, wind >power from places where turbines are allowed, excluding national parks, >bird migratory lanes, urban areas and so on.) Solar power in the southeast >could also easily supply all U.S. energy needs. As I recall, advanced, >large scale solar in the Mohave desert could probably supply the entire >world with energy, but the cost would be prohibitive. > >There are areas in the U.S. without much renewable power, such as Georgia >and Washington DC. (If we could harness stupidity, cupidity and hot air, >Washington alone could supply the whole nation.) > > >>Power sources such as small hydro, where to some extent the power output >>is consistent, is attractive, as is biomass to some extent. > >Hydro is tapped out. Biomass is far too small to make a significant >difference. Biomass is a form of solar energy which happens to be less >than 0.1% efficient, which is ridiculous. > >- Jed > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 18:55:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2G2sufX022394; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 18:54:56 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2G2ssKT022384; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 18:54:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 18:54:54 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2006-03-10) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.5 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_MESSAGE,J_CHICKENPOX_14,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Message-ID: <001001c648a4$fb257410$2c027841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: Re: A meteorogolist speaks on climate change Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:54:43 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C64872.AFE463D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67049 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C64872.AFE463D0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000D_01C64872.AFE5EA70" ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C64872.AFE5EA70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankJed Wrote.. (If we could harness stupidity, cupidity=20 and hot air, Washington alone could supply the whole nation.) Howdy Jed,=20 A great thought! Mark Twain once penned.." H'aint all the fools in town = on our side, an h'aint that enough in any town." Human nature at work in the world. The laws of human nature cannot be = changed. They can be manipulated and skewed as advertizing and politicos = demonstrate daily. Consider the fable we were were once taught in childhood,, The story of = the " Little Red Hen".. She thought.. I will plant a field of corn... = she asked..who will help me plow the field? Not I, Not I , said the = neighbors.. who will help me sow the seed ? Not I, Not I. The story = continues to harvesting the corn, grinding the corn and baking the = bread.. all met with the reply..Not I., Not I.. until she asked.. Who = will help me EAT the cornbread? You know the answer.. everybody will = help eat it cause its free. The Little Red Hen then said.. No you wont. = I will eat it all myself. Study the Little Red Hen's action statement .. "no you wont, I will eat = it all myself" . How do you handle such an abundance of harvest? What would be your = action statement? Think about it and compare how the US government = responds. Does the government actually respond to compassion or = political self interests?=20 Where does human compassion enter and exit in the Little Red Hen = scenario? For sure , we have a day of reckoning coming in the US with = illegal aliens washing across the border seeking some of that " = cornbread' sitting on the table. At the end of WW2, Mexico population was 25-50 mil, now above 150 mil = and will double in another 25 years, Egypt at the time Carter, Begin and = Sadat signed the accord was rewarded by 2 free shiploads of grain per = week by the US, plus 2 port facilities with silos to handle the = shipments. In the 28 ensuing years, Egypt's population doubles every 20 = years. Now consider pollution versus energy use demand. There is a finite model = so something must give sooner or later. Will it be designed to fail? = Succeed ? The actual event will be determined by the fools, rather than = the concerned ,as observed by Mark Twain.=20 Las Vegas was conceived from this human nature factor and evidenced by = it's success and constant lure. I stand in line behind the poor waiting = to purchase lottery and scratchoff gambling tickets at the local store. = They will spend their last dollar of welfare money to gamble on hopeless = hope. Could they be recruited by the Little Red Hen to work for corn ? = Not as long as somebody is giving it away. I watched the mass exodus = from hurricane Rita as it approached Houston . The people didn't = actually panic until they ran out of gas. Reality set in. In a few days = the gasoline stocks were up and the people promptly forgot. People being creatures of habit, will choose the least painful method.. = which is .. do nothing. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C64872.AFE5EA70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Jed Wrote..

 (If we could harness stupidity, cupidity
and hot air, = Washington=20 alone could supply the whole nation.)

Howdy Jed,

A great thought!  Mark Twain once penned.." H'aint all the fools = in town=20 on our side, an h'aint that enough in any town."

Human nature at work in the world. The laws of human nature cannot be = changed. They can be manipulated and skewed as advertizing and politicos = demonstrate daily.

Consider the fable we were were once taught in childhood,, The story = of the "=20 Little Red Hen".. She thought.. I will plant a field of corn... she = asked..who=20 will help me plow the field?   Not I, Not I ,  said the=20 neighbors.. who will help me sow the seed ? Not I, Not I. The story = continues to=20 harvesting the corn, grinding the corn and baking the bread.. all met = with the=20 reply..Not I., Not I.. until she asked.. Who will help me EAT the = cornbread? You=20 know the answer.. everybody will help eat it cause its free. The Little = Red Hen=20 then said.. No you wont. I will eat it all myself.

Study the Little Red Hen's action statement .. "no you wont, I will = eat it=20 all myself"

. How do you handle such an abundance of harvest? What would be = your=20 action statement? Think about it and compare how the US government=20 responds.  Does  the government actually respond to compassion = or=20 political self interests? 

Where does human compassion enter and exit in the Little Red = Hen =20 scenario? For sure , we have a day of reckoning coming in the US with = illegal=20 aliens washing across the border seeking some of that " cornbread' = sitting on=20 the table.

 At the end of WW2, Mexico population was 25-50 mil, now = above 150=20 mil and will double in another 25 years, Egypt at the time Carter, = Begin=20 and Sadat signed the accord was rewarded by 2 free shiploads of grain = per week=20 by the US, plus 2 port facilities with silos to handle the shipments. In = the 28=20 ensuing years, Egypt's population doubles every 20 years.

Now consider pollution versus energy use demand. There is a finite = model so=20 something must give sooner or later. Will it be  designed to fail?=20 Succeed ? The actual event will be determined by the fools, rather = than the=20 concerned ,as observed by Mark Twain.

Las Vegas was conceived from this human nature factor and = evidenced=20 by it's success and constant lure. I stand in line behind the poor = waiting to=20 purchase lottery and scratchoff gambling tickets at the local store. = They will=20 spend their last dollar of welfare money to gamble on hopeless hope. = Could they=20 be recruited by the Little Red Hen to work for corn ? Not as long as = somebody is=20 giving it away. I watched the mass exodus from hurricane Rita as it = approached=20 Houston . The people didn't actually panic until they ran out of gas. = Reality=20 set in. In a few days the gasoline stocks were up and the people = promptly=20 forgot.

 People being creatures of habit, will choose the least painful = method..=20 which is .. do nothing.

Richard


 

------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C64872.AFE5EA70-- ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C64872.AFE463D0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000b01c648a4$fa5bbb70$2c027841@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C64872.AFE463D0-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 20:20:18 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2G4K89x021055; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:20:08 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2G4K6jq021034; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:20:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:20:06 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=H95MHM6UBBJdrpIiZnBmzzAPgrhTdqaCdBmoP4YAq6AuiR5NZM/84O3DnYXPO24e; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <2377661.1142482802265.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 23:20:00 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Jed Rothwell Reply-To: Jed Rothwell To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: a meteorologist speaks on climate change Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 25e7688170aa9857b054f8d56408d260416dc04816f3191cf09b172276744d4c2c4712be867f11a5b7174f9a759ef98c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.30 Resent-Message-ID: <7cJOn.A.iIF.2dOGEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67052 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Philip Winestone writes: >Oh, incidentally, if I were to choose a way for people to become somewhat >energy independent (ie - not hooked up to some grid and thus not totally >dependent on giant energy purveyors) Honestly, I see no point to energy independence. Why does anyone care whether they are hooked to a grid or not? The power company charges a reasonable price. You cannot have wind power without a grid. I mean, I would prefer a world with no grid, because power lines are ugly and they take up space. But since we have a grid why does anyone want to get off of it? Of course CF would have countless advantages, and it would do away with the grid. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 22:26:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2G6QS0k001238; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 22:26:28 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2G6QREt001225; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 22:26:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 22:26:27 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.1.20060315222646.01d59bb0@pop> References: <4416500C.3020602@usfamily.net> <001601c64760$447b1f70$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <001101c64772$fb146720$6701a8c0@msns.flt.ptd.net> <002201c64828$77b43bb0$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <7.0.1.0.2.20060315093638.0376d6c0@mindspring.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060315143108.0374ecb8@mindspring.com> <6.1.1.1.1.20060315145536.01d54fd8@pop> <7.0.1.0.2.20060315161406.0374ecb8@mindspring.com> <6.1.1.1.1.20060315163209.01d7af90@pop> <7.0.1.0.2.20060315170143.0376d6c0@mindspring.com> <6.1.1.1.1.20060315222646.01d59bb0@pop> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: a meteorologist speaks on climate change Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 21:26:24 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67053 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mar 15, 2006, at 6:36 PM, Philip Winestone wrote: > ...I really can't be bothered arguing how many PV modules can dance > on the head of a pin. Yes, all those facts can be so annoying. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 23:04:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2G73rNO011815; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 23:03:54 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2G73qH6011787; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 23:03:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 23:03:52 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <2FCD8D8F-3291-44FF-8DDC-81E09E0E4820@mtaonline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Horace Heffner Subject: Polar CO2 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 22:03:49 -0900 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67054 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Polar carbon dioxide increasing at surprising rate. See: http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/story/0,,1729255,00.html "In 1990 this key cause of global warming was rising at a rate of 1 part per million (ppm). Recently, that rate reached 2 ppm per year. Now, scientists at the Mount Zeppelin monitoring station have discovered it is rising at between 2.5 and 3 ppm." Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 23:16:35 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2G7GQWN015866; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 23:16:26 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2G7GPpa015846; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 23:16:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 23:16:25 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Horace Heffner Subject: Efimov state - key to multi-nuclear LENR? Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 22:16:22 -0900 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67055 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/03/060315174950.htm "This ring means that three objects are entangled. If you pick up any one of them, the other two will follow. However, if you cut one of them off, the other two will fall apart," Chin said. "There is something magic about this number of three." "If you can create this kind of state out of any other type of particle, it'll have exactly the same behavior," Chin said. This is a cryogenic state, but one has to wonder about the possibility of a similar state existing in a lattice for a sufficient time to produce multi-nuclear LENR. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 19:47:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2G3la8K007545; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:47:37 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2G3lYvF007522; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:47:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:47:34 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Sender:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=ckA7qVXmO5cqNaJVSDjF3BL/H3zDjuhhcyI2LDj1hoGYon3+/5D0RYorcoImhV/ZEk2iAfWWdTHFJTIXNrcaYOCIV+W4h8i0DLcMFTeviR6FqmYpPI4ieiKYdou1bhTjp6HjIlxJ+lH2uUueWnzMchFBWmvqzaPCecBwfCmSwR4= ; Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.1.20060315222646.01d59bb0@pop> X-Sender: philip.winestone@pop X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.1.1 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 22:36:43 -0500 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Philip Winestone Subject: Re: a meteorologist speaks on climate change In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060315170143.0376d6c0@mindspring.com> References: <4416500C.3020602@usfamily.net> <001601c64760$447b1f70$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <001101c64772$fb146720$6701a8c0@msns.flt.ptd.net> <002201c64828$77b43bb0$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <7.0.1.0.2.20060315093638.0376d6c0@mindspring.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060315143108.0374ecb8@mindspring.com> <6.1.1.1.1.20060315145536.01d54fd8@pop> <7.0.1.0.2.20060315161406.0374ecb8@mindspring.com> <6.1.1.1.1.20060315163209.01d7af90@pop> <7.0.1.0.2.20060315170143.0376d6c0@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67050 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends5 Status: O X-Status: I was (reputedly) one of the leading solar thermal designers in Canada. I also worked, somewhat more peripherally, with photovoltaics, proposing - as part of a team - a method of providing comprehensive PV irrigation stations for the Sahel region in Africa. I was involved, even more peripherally, with small hydro, wind and biomass. Most of the people I met - not all mind you - were innocent dreamers, without much business sense. But they did have some excellent technical ideas and lots of enthusiasm... as I did. It's been a while now, but I've seen all the numbers thrown up in the air by alternate energy afficionados, and frankly, I'm not impressed. Been there, done that. I do however, believe - from my experience - that there are lots of places in this world that would benefit greatly from non-centralized electrical systems, as opposed to giant hydro schemes... Lots of places. Solar thermal? These same places - obviously tropical - could also benefit from solar thermal, but only if the applications were absolutely correct. There are other ways of applying the principles of solar thermal other than sticking collectors on roofs or on poles in the ground. It's a huge topic, and, again frankly, I really can't be bothered arguing how many PV modules can dance on the head of a pin. I was in the field for a time, had lots of fun, travelled to tropical countries on behalf of the Canadian government... but made very little to live on. That's where it ends. Philip. At 05:25 PM 3/15/2006 -0500, you wrote: >Philip Winestone wrote: > >>Sorry - but I've been there. I was an "alternate energy" engineer quite >>a few years ago, specializing in solar . . . > >What kind of solar? PV or direct thermal? Direct, large scale thermal >plants were built 20 years ago by Luz, and they take less land area than >coal or nuclear plants do when you factor in the size of the mines. They >take much less land than hydroelectricity does, when you factor in the >land that is submerged by the lake behind the dam. They are more efficient >than PV, and about 250 times more efficient than biomass. See Strirling >Energy, Sempra Energy and others. They are building a 500 MW unit and a >900 MW unit. These units do not take much land. See: > >http://www.stirlingenergy.com/news/Solars%20Day%20in%20the%20Sun%20-%20WSJ%2011-17-05.pdf > >Stirling claims that a solar farm 100 miles square could supply all U.S. >electricity. Others have made similar claims. There are plenty of places >in the Southwest desert ares where you could hide an installation as large >as this -- not that you would actually put it all in one location. See: > >http://www.stirlingenergy.com/faq.asp?Type=all > > >>Wind power is inconsistent (like I said). > >For many applications this does not matter. > > >> Solar power - if you put panels on every square metre of the US - may >> supply lots of energy. > >Panels -- meaning PV. This is the wrong approach in the U.S., with present >day technology, although it is going great guns in Japan. Japan has >different land use and weather parameters. > > >> Prohibitive cost? Yup. > >Stirling expects it will cost 10 cents per kWh in their first >installations. Others estimate 6 cents. That's expensive but not >prohibitive. The cost would fall to 2 cents if these things were developed >on a large scale. (That is true of wind, as well.) PV electricity in Japan >is now cheaper than centrally generated power, which is admittedly the >world's most expensive. > >- Jed > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 15 19:56:08 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2G3txCG010340; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:55:59 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2G3twxw010332; Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:55:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 19:55:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Sender:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=ehypCwWriP4O8kZB8v4/89zXoBzOy56QOekK2z8YfHPSQ2a0DxoCUt5LAbbwYsLPPgKbQ+LTf+kSrI9TdND1G9ckag4LHf5fXnQdjkF/AKksaHVua4qYpnxWSm20MHVAhCuT2KaQAcZ2BSA6FARzz5OCkeIjilqiUuKEW3xmm2g= ; Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.1.20060315224145.01decde8@pop> X-Sender: philip.winestone@pop X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.1.1 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 22:45:08 -0500 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Philip Winestone Subject: Re: a meteorologist speaks on climate change In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060315161406.0374ecb8@mindspring.com> References: <4416500C.3020602@usfamily.net> <001601c64760$447b1f70$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <001101c64772$fb146720$6701a8c0@msns.flt.ptd.net> <002201c64828$77b43bb0$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <7.0.1.0.2.20060315093638.0376d6c0@mindspring.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060315143108.0374ecb8@mindspring.com> <6.1.1.1.1.20060315145536.01d54fd8@pop> <7.0.1.0.2.20060315161406.0374ecb8@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67051 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends5 Status: O X-Status: Oh, incidentally, if I were to choose a way for people to become somewhat energy independent (ie - not hooked up to some grid and thus not totally dependent on giant energy purveyors) I would far rather put my energy into developing viable cold fusion applications, and not waste my time on the other stuff we've already discussed. Philip. At 04:21 PM 3/15/2006 -0500, you wrote: >Philip Winestone wrote: > >>For countries such as the US and Canada, renewable power such as solar >>energy is quite inadequate. > >That's incorrect. The U.S. wind power in the top ~5 states is larger than >the power from all of the oil produced in the Middle East. (That is, wind >power from places where turbines are allowed, excluding national parks, >bird migratory lanes, urban areas and so on.) Solar power in the southeast >could also easily supply all U.S. energy needs. As I recall, advanced, >large scale solar in the Mohave desert could probably supply the entire >world with energy, but the cost would be prohibitive. > >There are areas in the U.S. without much renewable power, such as Georgia >and Washington DC. (If we could harness stupidity, cupidity and hot air, >Washington alone could supply the whole nation.) > > >>Power sources such as small hydro, where to some extent the power output >>is consistent, is attractive, as is biomass to some extent. > >Hydro is tapped out. Biomass is far too small to make a significant >difference. Biomass is a form of solar energy which happens to be less >than 0.1% efficient, which is ridiculous. > >- Jed > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 01:51:53 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2G9phlQ030257; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 01:51:43 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2G9pfcX030239; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 01:51:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 01:51:41 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=TxccfhCdjRVaTsCPYaWao2BZuPIb92rUTRUs4WqJcESdc5zzyyAcjUCDD7yiBNtP; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006341695122748@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Cold Fusion & Supernova 1987A Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 02:51:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94045888f6e4c9b5e3c7b4cef9bc2e12a67350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.30 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67056 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII About 24 hours after the flash of light (and gamma rays) from Supernova 1987A about 150,000 light-years from earth in the Magellanic Cloud were observed, ~ 1.0 eV rest mass neutrinos from it were picked up by the Japanese Super-Kamiokande neutrino detector. The enormous electron - proton (Eo 0.51 MeV & 936 MeV rest mass) cosmic ray burst would follow later according to the relativistic equation: Gamma = Ekin/Eo + 1 = 1/[1 - (v^2/c^2)]^1/2 (Ekin can be 100s of GeV) The velocity v of the electrons would be ~ 0.999 999 99c and that of the protons ~ 0.999 999c they would hit the earth after traversing the ~ 150 thousand light-year distance in months-years, causing momentary neutron spallation-transmutation of atoms in the atmosphere and all materials (there were several computer problems generated on the Concorde and strange power outages on the Grid noted in 1988) including those used in Pons and Fleischman's Cold Fusion experiment about March 29th 1989: http://atom.kaeri.re.kr/ton/nuc2.html As would be expected, follow-up bursts of strange activity in materials and science laboratories have been going on ever since. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
About 24 hours after the flash of light  (and gamma rays) from Supernova 1987A  about 150,000 light-years
from earth  in the Magellanic Cloud were observed, ~ 1.0 eV rest mass neutrinos from it were picked up by
the Japanese Super-Kamiokande neutrino detector.
 
The enormous electron - proton  (Eo  0.51 MeV & 936 MeV rest mass) cosmic ray burst would follow later
according to the relativistic equation:
 
Gamma =  Ekin/Eo + 1 = 1/[1 - (v^2/c^2)]^1/2  (Ekin can be 100s of GeV)
 
The velocity  v of the electrons would be ~ 0.999 999 99c and that of the protons ~ 0.999 999c they
would  hit the earth after traversing the ~ 150 thousand light-year distance in months-years, causing momentary
neutron spallation-transmutation of atoms in the atmosphere and all materials (there were several computer problems
generated on the Concorde and strange power outages on the Grid noted in 1988) including those
used in Pons and Fleischman's Cold Fusion experiment about March 29th 1989:
 
 
As would be expected, follow-up bursts of strange activity in materials and science laboratories 
have been going on ever since.
 
Fred
 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 03:56:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GBuZ7S006605; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 03:56:36 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2GBuXDd006590; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 03:56:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 03:56:33 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=f5rEZ8DGBHl/Id+K1DWTV73SR2ck3Rgb3c1ZBknBiPcLE7vb5I83wfwxIhoJaZx3; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063416115621387@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Cold Fusion & Supernova 1987A Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 04:56:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940ebdc1a78fbec65f8848bf2c7546fc3fc350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.95 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67057 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Recent Chandra x-ray photos of 1987A. One of those in our Galaxy and we're history. http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/2005/sn87a/ "Recent Chandra observations have revealed new details about the fiery ring surrounding the stellar explosion that produced Supernova 1987A. The data give insight into the behavior of the doomed star in the years before it exploded, and indicate that the predicted spectacular brightening of the circumstellar ring has begun." " The supernova occurred in the Large Magellanic Cloud, a galaxy only 160,000 light years from Earth. The outburst was visible to the naked eye, and is the brightest known supernova in almost 400 years. The site of the explosion was traced to the location of a blue supergiant star called Sanduleak -69º 202 (SK -69 for short) that had a mass estimated at approximately 20 Suns." ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 3/16/2006 2:52:14 AM Subject: Re: Cold Fusion & Supernova 1987A About 24 hours after the flash of light (and gamma rays) from Supernova 1987A about 150,000 light-years from earth in the Magellanic Cloud were observed, ~ 1.0 eV rest mass neutrinos from it were picked up by the Japanese Super-Kamiokande neutrino detector. The enormous electron - proton (Eo 0.51 MeV & 936 MeV rest mass) cosmic ray burst would follow later according to the relativistic equation: Gamma = Ekin/Eo + 1 = 1/[1 - (v^2/c^2)]^1/2 (Ekin can be 100s of GeV) The velocity v of the electrons would be ~ 0.999 999 99c and that of the protons ~ 0.999 999c they would hit the earth after traversing the ~ 150 thousand light-year distance in months-years, causing momentary neutron spallation-transmutation of atoms in the atmosphere and all materials (there were several computer problems generated on the Concorde and strange power outages on the Grid noted in 1988) including those used in Pons and Fleischman's Cold Fusion experiment about March 29th 1989: http://atom.kaeri.re.kr/ton/nuc2.html As would be expected, follow-up bursts of strange activity in materials and science laboratories have been going on ever since. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Recent Chandra x-ray photos of 1987A.
 
One of those in our Galaxy and we're history.
 
 
"Recent Chandra observations have revealed new details about the fiery ring surrounding the stellar explosion that produced Supernova 1987A. The data give insight into the behavior of the doomed star in the years before it exploded, and indicate that the predicted spectacular brightening of the circumstellar ring has begun."
" The supernova occurred in the Large Magellanic Cloud, a galaxy only 160,000 light years from Earth. The outburst was visible to the naked eye, and is the brightest known supernova in almost 400 years. The site of the explosion was traced to the location of a blue supergiant star called Sanduleak -69º 202 (SK -69 for short) that had a mass estimated at approximately 20 Suns."
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 3/16/2006 2:52:14 AM
Subject: Re: Cold Fusion & Supernova 1987A

About 24 hours after the flash of light  (and gamma rays) from Supernova 1987A  about 150,000 light-years
from earth  in the Magellanic Cloud were observed, ~ 1.0 eV rest mass neutrinos from it were picked up by
the Japanese Super-Kamiokande neutrino detector.
 
The enormous electron - proton  (Eo  0.51 MeV & 936 MeV rest mass) cosmic ray burst would follow later
according to the relativistic equation:
 
Gamma =  Ekin/Eo + 1 = 1/[1 - (v^2/c^2)]^1/2  (Ekin can be 100s of GeV)
 
The velocity  v of the electrons would be ~ 0.999 999 99c and that of the protons ~ 0.999 999c they
would  hit the earth after traversing the ~ 150 thousand light-year distance in months-years, causing momentary
neutron spallation-transmutation of atoms in the atmosphere and all materials (there were several computer problems
generated on the Concorde and strange power outages on the Grid noted in 1988) including those
used in Pons and Fleischman's Cold Fusion experiment about March 29th 1989:
 
 
As would be expected, follow-up bursts of strange activity in materials and science laboratories 
have been going on ever since.
 
Fred
 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 04:11:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GCBTiL012655; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 04:11:30 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2GCBSFS012634; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 04:11:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 04:11:28 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <02db01c648f2$c2202590$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-220063416115621387@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Cold Fusion & Supernova 1987A Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:11:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0611-0, 14/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67058 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Very interesting Fred, a pity we can't evaluate those velocities precisely, it would tell us exactly when it is not advisable to fly a plane :) Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 12:56 PM Subject: Re: Cold Fusion & Supernova 1987A > Recent Chandra x-ray photos of 1987A. > > One of those in our Galaxy and we're history. > > http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/2005/sn87a/ > > "Recent Chandra observations have revealed new details about the fiery > ring surrounding the stellar explosion that produced Supernova 1987A. The > data give insight into the behavior of the doomed star in the years before > it exploded, and indicate that the predicted spectacular brightening of > the circumstellar ring has begun." > > " The supernova occurred in the Large Magellanic Cloud, a galaxy only > 160,000 light years from Earth. The outburst was visible to the naked eye, > and is the brightest known supernova in almost 400 years. The site of the > explosion was traced to the location of a blue supergiant star called > Sanduleak -69º 202 (SK -69 for short) that had a mass estimated at > approximately 20 Suns." > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Frederick Sparber > To: vortex-l > Sent: 3/16/2006 2:52:14 AM > Subject: Re: Cold Fusion & Supernova 1987A > > > About 24 hours after the flash of light (and gamma rays) from Supernova > 1987A about 150,000 light-years > from earth in the Magellanic Cloud were observed, ~ 1.0 eV rest mass > neutrinos from it were picked up by > the Japanese Super-Kamiokande neutrino detector. > > The enormous electron - proton (Eo 0.51 MeV & 936 MeV rest mass) cosmic > ray burst would follow later > according to the relativistic equation: > > Gamma = Ekin/Eo + 1 = 1/[1 - (v^2/c^2)]^1/2 (Ekin can be 100s of GeV) > > The velocity v of the electrons would be ~ 0.999 999 99c and that of the > protons ~ 0.999 999c they > would hit the earth after traversing the ~ 150 thousand light-year > distance in months-years, causing momentary > neutron spallation-transmutation of atoms in the atmosphere and all > materials (there were several computer problems > generated on the Concorde and strange power outages on the Grid noted in > 1988) including those > used in Pons and Fleischman's Cold Fusion experiment about March 29th > 1989: > > http://atom.kaeri.re.kr/ton/nuc2.html > > As would be expected, follow-up bursts of strange activity in materials > and science laboratories > have been going on ever since. > > Fred From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 04:36:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GCa0Dt022151; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 04:36:01 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2GCZxgh022130; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 04:35:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 04:35:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=okdWmQe8m3h88SVmRYQwSERxT2plYf4BxHLIsW5yPuZsiNwzopPON70LRjutiAcB; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063416123550664@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cold Fusion & Supernova 1987A Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 05:35:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940dbf7343563db47d803cc85a113e25af7350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.95 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67059 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Even at our >5,000 ft altitude we get more cosmic rays and EUV than low-landers, Michel. This "Does Antimatter Fall Up or Down?" article is of interest too. http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/ParticleAndNuclear/antimatterFall.html "In theory, antimatter dropped over the surface of the Earth should fall down. However, the issue has never been successfully experimentally tested. The theoretical grounds for expecting antimatter to fall down are very strong, so virtually all physicists expect antimatter to fall down -- however, some physicists believe that antimatter might fall down with a different acceleration than that of ordinary matter. Since this has never been experimentally tested, it's important to keep an open mind." Fred > [Original Message] > From: Michel Jullian > To: > Date: 3/16/2006 5:12:11 AM > Subject: Re: Cold Fusion & Supernova 1987A > > Very interesting Fred, a pity we can't evaluate those velocities precisely, > it would tell us exactly when it is not advisable to fly a plane :) > > Michel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frederick Sparber" > To: "vortex-l" > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 12:56 PM > Subject: Re: Cold Fusion & Supernova 1987A > > > > Recent Chandra x-ray photos of 1987A. > > > > One of those in our Galaxy and we're history. > > > > http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/2005/sn87a/ > > > > "Recent Chandra observations have revealed new details about the fiery > > ring surrounding the stellar explosion that produced Supernova 1987A. The > > data give insight into the behavior of the doomed star in the years before > > it exploded, and indicate that the predicted spectacular brightening of > > the circumstellar ring has begun." > > > > " The supernova occurred in the Large Magellanic Cloud, a galaxy only > > 160,000 light years from Earth. The outburst was visible to the naked eye, > > and is the brightest known supernova in almost 400 years. The site of the > > explosion was traced to the location of a blue supergiant star called > > Sanduleak -69º 202 (SK -69 for short) that had a mass estimated at > > approximately 20 Suns." > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Frederick Sparber > > To: vortex-l > > Sent: 3/16/2006 2:52:14 AM > > Subject: Re: Cold Fusion & Supernova 1987A > > > > > > About 24 hours after the flash of light (and gamma rays) from Supernova > > 1987A about 150,000 light-years > > from earth in the Magellanic Cloud were observed, ~ 1.0 eV rest mass > > neutrinos from it were picked up by > > the Japanese Super-Kamiokande neutrino detector. > > > > The enormous electron - proton (Eo 0.51 MeV & 936 MeV rest mass) cosmic > > ray burst would follow later > > according to the relativistic equation: > > > > Gamma = Ekin/Eo + 1 = 1/[1 - (v^2/c^2)]^1/2 (Ekin can be 100s of GeV) > > > > The velocity v of the electrons would be ~ 0.999 999 99c and that of the > > protons ~ 0.999 999c they > > would hit the earth after traversing the ~ 150 thousand light-year > > distance in months-years, causing momentary > > neutron spallation-transmutation of atoms in the atmosphere and all > > materials (there were several computer problems > > generated on the Concorde and strange power outages on the Grid noted in > > 1988) including those > > used in Pons and Fleischman's Cold Fusion experiment about March 29th > > 1989: > > > > http://atom.kaeri.re.kr/ton/nuc2.html > > > > As would be expected, follow-up bursts of strange activity in materials > > and science laboratories > > have been going on ever since. > > > > Fred From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 05:21:43 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GDLFqZ014015; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 05:21:16 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2GDLE7W013998; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 05:21:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 05:21:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060316132111567.8A7413400085@mwinf3116.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060316132113.009f85a0@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:21:13 +0000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Efimov state - key to multi-nuclear LENR? Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67060 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:16 pm 15/03/2006 -0900, Horace wrote: > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/03/060315174950.htm > > "This ring means that three objects are entangled. > If you pick up any one of them, the other two will follow. > However, if you cut one of them off, the other two will > fall apart," Chin said. "There is something magic about > this number of three." > > "If you can create this kind of state out of any other type of > particle, it'll have exactly the same behavior," Chin said. The article also goes on to say, ============================================= Today, nanotechnology researchers can combine atoms in novel ways to form materials with interesting new properties, "but you are not changing the fundamental interactions of these atoms," Chin said. That can only be done at temperatures near absolute zero. "At the moment, I don't see how this can be done at much higher temperatures," he said. ============================================ I can. 8-) Lowering the temperature is increasing the Compreture pressure. Lowering the Beta-atmosphere pressure by the 12th power three dimensional Casimir action will be the equivalent of increasing Compreture. > This is a cryogenic state, but one has to wonder > about the possibility of a similar state existing > in a lattice for a sufficient time to produce > multi-nuclear LENR. One need wonder no longer. 8-) This is how Cold Fusion works as I explained in the Infinite Energy magazine article. Lowering temperature is increasing the numerator. Lowering Beta-atmosphere pressure is decreasing the denominator. Curiously enough, it literally is Cold Fusion - bloody cold - or the Beta-atmosphere equivalent of "bloody cold" to be exact. Cheers, Frank From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 06:18:09 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GEHt97005837; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 06:17:56 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2GEHrrD005805; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 06:17:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 06:17:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2006-03-10) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.1 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Message-ID: <002601c64900$3410c620$72027841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: References: <2.2.32.20060316132113.009f85a0@pop.freeserve.net> Subject: Re: Efimov state - key to multi-nuclear LENR? Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 07:47:43 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67061 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Howdy Frank, Which is also an excellent theoretical description of the principle of the Ranque-Hilsch vortex tube. Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grimer" To: Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 7:21 AM Subject: Re: Efimov state - key to multi-nuclear LENR? > At 10:16 pm 15/03/2006 -0900, Horace wrote: > >> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/03/060315174950.htm >> >> "This ring means that three objects are entangled. >> If you pick up any one of them, the other two will follow. >> However, if you cut one of them off, the other two will >> fall apart," Chin said. "There is something magic about >> this number of three." >> >> "If you can create this kind of state out of any other type of >> particle, it'll have exactly the same behavior," Chin said. > > > The article also goes on to say, > > ============================================= > Today, nanotechnology researchers can combine > atoms in novel ways to form materials with > interesting new properties, "but you are not > changing the fundamental interactions of these > atoms," Chin said. That can only be done at > temperatures near absolute zero. > "At the moment, I don't see how this can be > done at much higher temperatures," he said. > ============================================ > > I can. 8-) > > Lowering the temperature is increasing the Compreture > pressure. Lowering the Beta-atmosphere pressure by > the 12th power three dimensional Casimir action will > be the equivalent of increasing Compreture. > > >> This is a cryogenic state, but one has to wonder >> about the possibility of a similar state existing >> in a lattice for a sufficient time to produce >> multi-nuclear LENR. > > > One need wonder no longer. 8-) > > This is how Cold Fusion works as I explained in > the Infinite Energy magazine article. Lowering > temperature is increasing the numerator. Lowering > Beta-atmosphere pressure is decreasing the denominator. > > Curiously enough, it literally is Cold Fusion - > bloody cold - or the Beta-atmosphere equivalent of > "bloody cold" to be exact. > > Cheers, > > Frank > > > > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 08:09:00 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GG26dw019150; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 08:02:06 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2GG1tKi019059; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 08:01:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 08:01:55 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060316160141302.49DCF1C00090@mwinf3104.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060316160142.009dfef0@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:01:42 +0000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Efimov state - key to multi-nuclear LENR? Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67062 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:47 am 16/03/2006 -0600, you wrote: > Howdy Frank, > > Which is also an excellent theoretical > description of the principle of the > Ranque-Hilsch vortex tube. > > Richard I see what you mean. You got there before I did. But with all your very tangible experience of such phenomena - that is only to be expected. 8-) Frank From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 08:55:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GGtHM5010936; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 08:55:18 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2GGtDxX010905; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 08:55:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 08:55:13 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316115414.035d3968@mindspring.com> Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316113521.035d0e48@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:55:03 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <3KfFCC.A.VqC.xhZGEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67063 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here is a simple comparison of electric vehicle versus gasoline vehicle cost per mile. Gasoline vehicle Gasoline cost: $2.36 (EIA average for U.S. as of 3/13/06) Average vehicle mpg: 22 mpg (DoE 2002 data) Cost per mile: 10.7 cents Prius gasoline mode: 45 mpg (Actual Atlanta in-town performance Jed's car) Cost per mile: 5.2 cents Electric vehicle (or plug-in hybrid) Electricity: 8 cents kWh Electric vehicle consumption per mile: 0.3 to 0.5 kWh (Wikipedia and other sources) Cost per mile: 2.6 cents to 4.0 cents Plug-in Prius while running as purely electric vehicle, cost per mile: ~2.6 cents * * The plug-in Prius will be an efficient electric vehicle because it is lighter than a pure electric vehicle. This is because the battery pack is smaller. That limits the range. A pure electric vehicle carries enough batteries to go 100 to 200 miles, whereas the plug-in Prius will only go 20 to 30 miles before the battery runs out and the onboard ICE powers the car normally. The assumption is that most commuters only go ~30 miles per day, so they will use mostly electricity. (At high speeds the plug-in vehicle will require both electricity and the ICE, so the cost will be a little higher than 2.6 cents/mile.) If you forget to recharge a plug-in, the only penalty will be that the cost of travel jumps up from 2.6 to 5.2 cents per mile. With a pure electric vehicle, if you forget to recharge the car stops and you are stranded. With older model electric vehicles the cost of the batteries over the life of the car was a major additional cost, but the latest batteries such as the ones in the Prius are expected to last 200,000 miles, the life of the car, and they are cheaper to start with. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 09:10:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GHA99S018282; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:10:09 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2GHA733018258; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:10:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:10:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <052401c6491c$76b6ef10$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <2.2.32.20060316132113.009f85a0@pop.freeserve.net> <002601c64900$3410c620$72027841@xptower> Subject: Re: Efimov state - key to multi-nuclear LENR? Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:10:01 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67064 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: "This ring means that three objects are entangled. If you pick up any one of them, the other two will follow. However, if you cut one of them off, the other two will fall apart," Chin said. "There is something magic about this number of three." Ha! In a number of past posts I have tried to wax poetic on the subject of triad "Form", and in particular the so-called Borromean structures (three interlocking rings) which are fascinating in the context of nuclear theory. http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20040529/fob7.asp ... but I was not aware of the so-callaed Efimov strucutre.... Are they related? ....you bet your fur they are, mother nature. Just after the turn of the century, D'Arcy Thompson wrote a seminal book about the subject of "form" called simply enough, "On Growth and Form". For way too long, I have been enchanted by his major theme that platonic ideals - as 'form' - tend to repeat on different geometric scales, up and down. This suggests that there is a two-way mirrored self-symmetry of the kind made famous by Fractal images, and which seems to be involved in nature's way of generating form. Then there is string theory (Fred's favorite subject) ... where the "strings" are best visualized as loops (the snake eating his tail) which have the suspected appearance of a stack of three rings, the center being counter-spin to the other two - but with an aligned axis of the three. It is also possible to have an alternative kind of "stack" of three rings where the center ring is orthogonal to the other two - that is almost the Borromean model, which is not exactly the three-interlocking-ring model. The "Olympics" icon has each ring tilted and potentially orthogonal, like links in a chain... but there is an alternative kind "stack" but with interlocking wave-functions. The so-called "Borromean Ring" is visually this different kind of triad interlocking ring-form - which commonly adorned Viking art and Renaissance architecture. This structure has the property that no two rings are interlocking, therefore if any one of the rings is removed, then all three separate. That would indicate temporary stability... It gets curiouser and curiouser.... Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 09:41:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GHfQdt001210; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:41:27 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2GHfPrT001186; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:41:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:41:25 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <001a01c64920$cf8d4180$0c2d010a@arghou.argcorp.argworldwide.com> From: "Craig Haynie" To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316115414.035d3968@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:41:09 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Mar 2006 17:41:09.0625 (UTC) FILETIME=[CF888690:01C64920] Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67065 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed wrote: >>>Electricity: 8 cents kWh You're only paying 8 cents per KWH. I'm paying something like 13.4 cents per KWH. Craig Haynie (Houston) From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 09:42:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GHgbDj001811; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:42:37 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2GHgZQR001792; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:42:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:42:35 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <057101c64920$ff5ffe20$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316115414.035d3968@mindspring.com> Subject: Not so Simple comparison: electric car versus human hybrid Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:42:28 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67066 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: JR: Prius gasoline mode: 45 mpg (Actual Atlanta in-town performance Jed's car) Cost per mile: 5.2 cents For you younger Vo's - and esp those on a eco-trip or severe budget - who want to get that cost down to under a penny per mile AND look better, feel better, and all those win-win things? Yes, it lives. It is the *Human Electric* Hybrid Drive. Now that spring is just around the corner - its time to consider SUBs-4-SUVs - like "Greeny" here getting a recharge: http://www.runaboutcycles.com/main/node/view/17 And let's not forget the "Stokemonkey". Too bad its got such a dorky name, but I guess the marketing ploy is somewhat along the lines of 'Smuckers'... "with a name like that.." http://cleverchimp.com/ Stokemonkey is an electric motor assist kit for the Xtracycle "Sport Utility" Bicycles (SUB ?) not to be confused with the sandwich or 'das boot'). It is a great idea, but actually I have found a local guy who is going to modify my bicycle along similar lines but with a better twin-motor design - and for less. The BP Outrunner 50 Amp is one of the more incredible small motors on the market - check the weight: http://slofly.com/cart/product_info.php?cPath=23_45_135&products_id=935 But the whole concept of a bicycle add-on trailer makes sense. http://www.bikesatwork.com/index.html Here is another one: http://www.geocities.com/vancyclist/PT50.html Xtracycle - or a well-designed trailer can give almost any bike decent cargo capacity in addition to large batteries, giving you the power to haul loads up steep streets or just swiftly across town. It is a match made in eco-heaven. Many electric bikes and trikes are designed for people who are, to put it nicely, a bit on the rich and lazy side. The wavecrest design was very pricey but has already gone belly-up: http://www.tidalforce.com/ Their bankruptcy sale was yesterday according to the WSJ But you can be both old, poor, and lazy by converting an existing bike - and my new two motor baby, drawing 100 amps has got major torque for minor bucks. Alas, like so many 'not quite ready for prime time' schemes' it is still awaiting the "bettery" (better battery) ... but with a trailer rig, even an advanced lead-acid is totable and will suffice until the bettery is finally available. http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/01/firefly_energy__1.html These proponents don't believe in replacing human power with electricity; but in replacing **cars** for most routine trips (SUBs-4-SUVs) -especially for tasks that even younger and stronger bicyclists seldom undertake on human power alone - especially that trip to the grocery store, or to combine some routing chores when you haven't gotten in enough exercise that day. Why tote around 6000 pounds of dead-iron just to pick up a quart of milk when you can add years to your own life, help mother nature out, and be the envy of all your couch-potato friends? Not to mention - in a few states with better than average weather - a car-free household is now a real possibility, allowing those who want to become independent of cars to actually do it. ... or at least just to keep an old junker around for the occasional emergency or longer trip- like today - too far for cycling to Berkeley, the home-base for mean and lean transport machines. Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 09:52:46 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GHqFQx006650; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:52:15 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2GHqCXK006628; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:52:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:52:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 12:52:07 -0500 Message-Id: <8C817397A2D30F0-27E8-7086@mblkn-m02.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316115414.035d3968@mindspring.com> <001a01c64920$cf8d4180$0c2d010a@arghou.argcorp.argworldwide.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <001a01c64920$cf8d4180$0c2d010a@arghou.argcorp.argworldwide.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.66 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2GHqA0d006600 Resent-Message-ID: <8ZC7FD.A.fnB.LXaGEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67067 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Craig Haynie You're only paying 8 cents per KWH. I'm paying something like 13.4 cents per KWH.  <><><><><><><> I pay the co-op, Jackson EMC, 9.4 cents plus sales tax in the Atlanta suburbs. Keith pays Con Ed 20 cents in Brooklyn. If those ultracaps that Zell told about work out, I can sell it to Keith for 15 cents (plus a refundable deposit on the caps). Terryu ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 10:10:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GIA170014798; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 10:10:09 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2GI0AHp010289; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 10:00:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 10:00:10 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:08:36 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <001a01c64920$cf8d4180$0c2d010a@arghou.argcorp.argworldwide.com> Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67068 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I'll see your 13.4 cents, and raise you to 22 cents ( this includes the delivery costs, BTW ). Also, for Phil Winestone, I can appreciate your comments about "counting the PV's that can fit on the head of a pin" but given the insane cost I am now paying for electricity, you might plug through those calc's one more time... At the current rate I'll bet I could hire a couple of Mexicans from the nabe to pedal bicycles with generators attached and come out ahead, even including the cost of a few Modelos ( they're mixed ethanol/carbohydrate powered, you know? ) K. -----Original Message----- From: Craig Haynie [mailto:public@craighaynie.com] Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 12:41 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline Jed wrote: >>>Electricity: 8 cents kWh You're only paying 8 cents per KWH. I'm paying something like 13.4 cents per KWH. Craig Haynie (Houston) From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 11:22:34 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GJMKXP018281; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:22:20 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2GJMJ58018265; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:22:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:22:19 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316142054.036dfc80@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:22:16 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline In-Reply-To: <001a01c64920$cf8d4180$0c2d010a@arghou.argcorp.argworldwide .com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316115414.035d3968@mindspring.com> <001a01c64920$cf8d4180$0c2d010a@arghou.argcorp.argworldwide.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67069 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Craig Haynie wrote: >You're only paying 8 cents per KWH. I'm paying something like 13.4 >cents per KWH. Here is a map showing residential electric power costs in different states: http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/brochure/electricity/electricity.html The national average in 2003 was just over 8 cents. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 11:32:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GJW9gX022255; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:32:10 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2GJW79g022230; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:32:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:32:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316142809.035d3968@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:31:55 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Not so Simple comparison: electric car versus human hybrid In-Reply-To: <057101c64920$ff5ffe20$6401a8c0@NuDell> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316115414.035d3968@mindspring.com> <057101c64920$ff5ffe20$6401a8c0@NuDell> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67070 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones Beene wrote: >For you younger Vo's - and esp those on a eco-trip or severe budget >- who want to get that cost down to under a penny per mile AND look >better, feel better, and all those win-win things? > >Yes, it lives. It is the *Human Electric* Hybrid Drive. Yes. For Americans, this causes less pollution per mile than any other mode of transportation, including walking. US food takes a terrific amount of fossil fuel to produce, so human exercise (metabolism) actually causes a lot of CO2 emission. I ride a LaFree electric bicycle. They no longer make that model, but here is an improved one from the same company. Mine weighs 60 pounds and has a 20 mile range. This one weighs 48 pounds and has a 30 mile range. See: http://store.nycewheels.com/lafree-lite-electric-bicycle.html - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 11:59:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GJwwN4003358; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:58:58 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2GJwveY003345; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:58:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:58:57 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [64.174.37.158] X-Originating-Email: [mgoldes@msn.com] X-Sender: mgoldes@msn.com From: "Mark Goldes" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: jonesb9@pacbell.net Subject: FW: Atoms behave like Three Musketeers Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:58:53 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Mar 2006 19:58:56.0375 (UTC) FILETIME=[0EE67870:01C64934] Resent-Message-ID: <-y0GgC.A.N0.BOcGEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67071 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All for one, one for all: Atoms behave like Three Musketeers URL: http://www.physorg.com/news11817.html From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 12:40:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GKe1BN022213; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 12:40:13 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2GKZMJv020426; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 12:35:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 12:35:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [64.174.37.158] X-Originating-Email: [mgoldes@msn.com] X-Sender: mgoldes@msn.com From: "Mark Goldes" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Whoops - Jones was way ahead of me! Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 12:35:08 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Mar 2006 20:35:11.0535 (UTC) FILETIME=[1F658BF0:01C64939] Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67072 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: My last post was preceded by a much more comprehensive one by Jones. Sorry... Mark From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 12:57:55 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GKvkhk029572; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 12:57:46 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2GKviDC029551; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 12:57:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 12:57:44 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316142054.036dfc80@mindspring.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316115414.035d3968@mindspring.com> <001a01c64920$cf8d4180$0c2d010a@arghou.argcorp.argworldwide.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316142054.036dfc80@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <5491B53A-B5C2-4904-A604-6D7C72B82D4E@mtaonline.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:57:39 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67073 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mar 16, 2006, at 7:55 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > > Plug-in Prius while running as purely electric vehicle, cost per > mile: ~2.6 cents * > We may get away with that for a while, but sooner or later the states have to find a way to pay for the road maintenance currently paid for by gas taxes. Meanwhile, the lack of road taxes on electricity is a great and automatic incentive. On Mar 16, 2006, at 10:22 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > Craig Haynie wrote: > >> You're only paying 8 cents per KWH. I'm paying something like 13.4 >> cents per KWH. > > Here is a map showing residential electric power costs in different > states: > > http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/brochure/electricity/electricity.html > > The national average in 2003 was just over 8 cents. > > - Jed The above map only shows current electric prices, not the incremental cost of new electricity. It reflects much old capital invested in dams, etc. As vehicles are converted from petroleum to electric power the incremental demand will cause new the electric rates to come more closely in line nation wide. However, implementation of communication system based power company managed demand control systems for load balancing could significantly reduce power costs. A load demand control system in concert with renewable energy sources could produce dramatic long term savings. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 13:40:53 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GLTYwe010043; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:29:35 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2GLTS2L009979; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:29:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 13:29:28 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316160956.0356f028@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:28:59 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline In-Reply-To: <5491B53A-B5C2-4904-A604-6D7C72B82D4E@mtaonline.net> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316115414.035d3968@mindspring.com> <001a01c64920$cf8d4180$0c2d010a@arghou.argcorp.argworldwide.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316142054.036dfc80@mindspring.com> <5491B53A-B5C2-4904-A604-6D7C72B82D4E@mtaonline.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <_guShC.A.sbC.1idGEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67074 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: >We may get away with that for a while, but sooner or later the >states have to find a way to pay for the road maintenance currently >paid for by gas taxes. Meanwhile, the lack of road taxes on >electricity is a great and automatic incentive. I had not thought of that. However, the Federal road maintenance highway tax is only $.18 per gallon, or 0.8 cents per mile for the average car. You could replace it with a mileage tax based on the odometer reading, or a simple flat fee per vehicle. >The above map only shows current electric prices, not the incremental >cost of new electricity. It reflects much old capital invested in >dams, etc. New electricity from wind power or large-scale solar in the Southwest is presently expensive but if it is developed on a large scale it will soon become dramatically cheaper. >As vehicles are converted from petroleum to electric power the >incremental demand will cause new the electric rates to come more >closely in line nation wide. Actually, electric vehicles use such a small amount of electricity, I doubt that any additional generator capacity will be needed. Some additional fuel will be burned and fissioned, of course. Here is 2001 data from the Annual Energy Review 2002: Average annual mileage (miles per vehicle): 11,766 Miles per day: 32 Electric vehicle consumption per mile: 0.3 to 0.5 kWh (Wikipedia) Electric energy per day: 16 kWh In other words, recharging a car would be like plugging in a 1.5 kW electric room heater for just over 10 hours. If every US household did this from 9:00 p.m. until the next morning, it would put no strain on our generating capacity. It would be a problem with everyone did it at 3 p.m. a summer afternoon, but not at night. In many houses you could probably turn off a half-dozen lights and a television to save most of this power. If the car dealerships and grocery stores a few miles from my house would turn off half the lights they leave burning all night, they would save enough electricity to power every car in the County! - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 14:17:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GMGtSs032322; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:16:55 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2GMGrsk032299; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:16:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:16:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <035501c64947$529ec3c0$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316115414.035d3968@mindspring.com> <001a01c64920$cf8d4180$0c2d010a@arghou.argcorp.argworldwide.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316142054.036dfc80@mindspring.com> <5491B53A-B5C2-4904-A604-6D7C72B82D4E@mtaonline.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316160956.0356f028@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 23:16:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0611-1, 16/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: <5nrpX.A.n4H.VPeGEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67075 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed you made an excellent point here, as amazing as it may seem no additional generator capacity would be needed (if your maths are right which they seem to be). Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jed Rothwell" To: Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 10:28 PM Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline > Horace Heffner wrote: > >>We may get away with that for a while, but sooner or later the states have >>to find a way to pay for the road maintenance currently paid for by gas >>taxes. Meanwhile, the lack of road taxes on electricity is a great and >>automatic incentive. > > I had not thought of that. However, the Federal road maintenance highway > tax is only $.18 per gallon, or 0.8 cents per mile for the average car. > You could replace it with a mileage tax based on the odometer reading, or > a simple flat fee per vehicle. > > >>The above map only shows current electric prices, not the incremental >>cost of new electricity. It reflects much old capital invested in >>dams, etc. > > New electricity from wind power or large-scale solar in the Southwest is > presently expensive but if it is developed on a large scale it will soon > become dramatically cheaper. > > >>As vehicles are converted from petroleum to electric power the incremental >>demand will cause new the electric rates to come more closely in line >>nation wide. > > Actually, electric vehicles use such a small amount of electricity, I > doubt that any additional generator capacity will be needed. Some > additional fuel will be burned and fissioned, of course. Here is 2001 data > from the Annual Energy Review 2002: > > Average annual mileage (miles per vehicle): 11,766 > Miles per day: 32 > Electric vehicle consumption per mile: 0.3 to 0.5 kWh (Wikipedia) > Electric energy per day: 16 kWh > > In other words, recharging a car would be like plugging in a 1.5 kW > electric room heater for just over 10 hours. If every US household did > this from 9:00 p.m. until the next morning, it would put no strain on our > generating capacity. It would be a problem with everyone did it at 3 p.m. > a summer afternoon, but not at night. In many houses you could probably > turn off a half-dozen lights and a television to save most of this power. > If the car dealerships and grocery stores a few miles from my house would > turn off half the lights they leave burning all night, they would save > enough electricity to power every car in the County! > > - Jed > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 14:38:18 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GMbubO010098; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:37:57 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2GMbt0u010082; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:37:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:37:55 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:37:52 -0600 Message-ID: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B57E42D@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline Thread-Index: AcZJR417VNZPKzzrSd+bw+RzaeshogAAYd3g From: "Zell, Chris" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Mar 2006 22:37:53.0525 (UTC) FILETIME=[437C1250:01C6494A] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2GMbr8n010062 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67076 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This lack of additional generating capacity need is partly why a Really Good Battery would have such a dramatic effect on society. You create electric cars that run much cheaper per mile without much need for additional fossil fuel generator use. Indeed, I think that such a device would encourage an explosion of alternative development that would quickly challenge utilities fossil fuel use. In their late night nightmares, I suspect that Arab nations fear such a development, as some of them take a long term view , such as the Saudis. -----Original Message----- From: Michel Jullian [mailto:mj@exbang.com] Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 5:17 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline Jed you made an excellent point here, as amazing as it may seem no additional generator capacity would be needed (if your maths are right which they seem to be). Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jed Rothwell" To: Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 10:28 PM Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline > Horace Heffner wrote: > >>We may get away with that for a while, but sooner or later the states have >>to find a way to pay for the road maintenance currently paid for by gas >>taxes. Meanwhile, the lack of road taxes on electricity is a great and >>automatic incentive. > > I had not thought of that. However, the Federal road maintenance highway > tax is only $.18 per gallon, or 0.8 cents per mile for the average car. > You could replace it with a mileage tax based on the odometer reading, or > a simple flat fee per vehicle. > > >>The above map only shows current electric prices, not the incremental >>cost of new electricity. It reflects much old capital invested in >>dams, etc. > > New electricity from wind power or large-scale solar in the Southwest is > presently expensive but if it is developed on a large scale it will soon > become dramatically cheaper. > > >>As vehicles are converted from petroleum to electric power the incremental >>demand will cause new the electric rates to come more closely in line >>nation wide. > > Actually, electric vehicles use such a small amount of electricity, I > doubt that any additional generator capacity will be needed. Some > additional fuel will be burned and fissioned, of course. Here is 2001 data > from the Annual Energy Review 2002: > > Average annual mileage (miles per vehicle): 11,766 > Miles per day: 32 > Electric vehicle consumption per mile: 0.3 to 0.5 kWh (Wikipedia) > Electric energy per day: 16 kWh > > In other words, recharging a car would be like plugging in a 1.5 kW > electric room heater for just over 10 hours. If every US household did > this from 9:00 p.m. until the next morning, it would put no strain on our > generating capacity. It would be a problem with everyone did it at 3 p.m. > a summer afternoon, but not at night. In many houses you could probably > turn off a half-dozen lights and a television to save most of this power. > If the car dealerships and grocery stores a few miles from my house would > turn off half the lights they leave burning all night, they would save > enough electricity to power every car in the County! > > - Jed > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 14:45:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GMjih7013900; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:45:45 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2GMjhRE013875; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:45:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:45:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316173452.036a8340@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:45:38 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline In-Reply-To: <035501c64947$529ec3c0$3800a8c0@zothan> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316115414.035d3968@mindspring.com> <001a01c64920$cf8d4180$0c2d010a@arghou.argcorp.argworldwide.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316142054.036dfc80@mindspring.com> <5491B53A-B5C2-4904-A604-6D7C72B82D4E@mtaonline.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316160956.0356f028@mindspring.com> <035501c64947$529ec3c0$3800a8c0@zothan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67077 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michel Jullian wrote: >Jed you made an excellent point here, as amazing as it may seem no >additional generator capacity would be needed (if your maths are >right which they seem to be). Actually, several authors have pointed this out and they have done more sophisticated analyses. I just ran a quick "reality check" to confirm them. Recharging electric automobiles with Internet connected "smart meters" would be an ideal application for intermittent wind generated electricity. As long as it gets done in less than 10 hours or so nobody cares whether it happens at 11 p.m. or 3 a.m. A regular 120 VAC connector is only supposed to carry 1.5 kW (although we had more powerful room heaters when I was a kid!), but you can use a heavy-duty 5 kW line such the ones for washing machines. Then you could charge the car in 3 hours when the wind blows and power is available, and cut the power when the wind stops. In Georgia we have no wind power but this would ensure that most of the electricity used to charge cars comes from nuclear power plants. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 15:06:24 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GMxJ0Z019888; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:59:20 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2GMx9TU019820; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:59:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:59:09 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <060701c6494d$38d7e420$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316115414.035d3968@mindspring.com> <001a01c64920$cf8d4180$0c2d010a@arghou.argcorp.argworldwide.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316142054.036dfc80@mindspring.com> <5491B53A-B5C2-4904-A604-6D7C72B82D4E@mtaonline.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316160956.0356f028@mindspring.com> <035501c64947$529ec3c0$3800a8c0@zothan> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316173452.036a8340@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 23:58:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0611-1, 16/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67078 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: There may be no wind power in Georgia, but your electricity network may be interconnected with other networks far away where there is wind power, that's the nicety of these networks (makes up for their ugliness). Now would potential US wind power be enough to recharge all US automobiles at some time or other of the night do you think? Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jed Rothwell" To: Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 11:45 PM Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline > Michel Jullian wrote: > >>Jed you made an excellent point here, as amazing as it may seem no >>additional generator capacity would be needed (if your maths are right >>which they seem to be). > > Actually, several authors have pointed this out and they have done more > sophisticated analyses. I just ran a quick "reality check" to confirm > them. > > Recharging electric automobiles with Internet connected "smart meters" > would be an ideal application for intermittent wind generated electricity. > As long as it gets done in less than 10 hours or so nobody cares whether > it happens at 11 p.m. or 3 a.m. A regular 120 VAC connector is only > supposed to carry 1.5 kW (although we had more powerful room heaters when > I was a kid!), but you can use a heavy-duty 5 kW line such the ones for > washing machines. Then you could charge the car in 3 hours when the wind > blows and power is available, and cut the power when the wind stops. In > Georgia we have no wind power but this would ensure that most of the > electricity used to charge cars comes from nuclear power plants. > > - Jed > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 15:08:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GN7s2K023923; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:07:55 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2GN7rVE023906; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:07:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:07:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316174605.035d3968@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 18:06:59 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: RE: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline In-Reply-To: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B57E42D@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu .clearchannel.com> References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B57E42D@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67079 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Zell, Chris wrote: >This lack of additional generating capacity need is partly why a >Really Good Battery would have such a dramatic effect on >society. You create electric cars that run much cheaper per mile >without much need for additional fossil fuel generator use. Indeed, >I think that such a device would encourage an explosion of >alternative development that would quickly challenge utilities fossil fuel use. Don't forget, Chris: it works the other way too. Sometimes superior technology creates the opportunity, and sometimes opportunity gives rise to superior technology. This is what is happening now with batteries. We do not have Really Good Batteries but we do have Considerably Improved Batteries, such as the latest generation that are going into hybrid cars and the upcoming plug-in hybrid cars. Hundreds of thousands of hybrid cars have been manufactured and this has created a large market for improved batteries, and a flood of R&D funding. This, in turn, may eventually give rise to radically improved versions and the Holy Grail you speak of: the Really Good Battery. Batteries also improved over the last 20 years thanks to the demand for cell phones and portable computers. Persistent demand and a flood of R&D funding will not produce a radical breakthrough such as cold fusion. That sort of thing only comes along once every century or so, and it is the product of genius with no connection to the quotidian world of money and business. (Believe me, CF researchers live in a mental space light years away from what usually passes for reality.) But R&D funding will produce incremental improvements, and that may be enough to produce the Really Good Battery. Incremental improvements brought us microprocessors with 100 million components and 20 GB hard disks that fit into your pocket. Such things would have seemed utterly incredible 30 years ago -- to me, anyway. Yet they did not require any fundamental or surprising discoveries, just persistent slogging and one small improvement after another. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 15:12:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GNCkqX026727; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:12:47 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2GNCiwF026704; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:12:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:12:44 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <060b01c6494f$20a47290$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B57E42D@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 00:12:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0611-1, 16/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: <1jJ6SB.A.MhG.sDfGEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67080 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Indeed those 310Wh/Kg EEStor ceramic ultracaps we discussed the other day, or similar, would just make the difference between an all-gasoline and an all-electric car society. Present best Lithium Polymers with their 185Wh/Kg are just not enough, they would allow 2h autonomy only IIRC, and would be too expensive for an all-electric solution (although they are perfectly sufficient for hybrids). Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zell, Chris" To: Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 11:37 PM Subject: RE: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline > This lack of additional generating capacity need is partly why a Really > Good Battery would have such a dramatic effect on society. You create > electric cars > that run much cheaper per mile without much need for additional fossil > fuel generator use. Indeed, I think that such a device would encourage > an explosion > of alternative development that would quickly challenge utilities fossil > fuel use. In their late night nightmares, I suspect that Arab nations > fear such a > development, as some of them take a long term view , such as the Saudis. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michel Jullian [mailto:mj@exbang.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 5:17 PM > To: vortex-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline > > Jed you made an excellent point here, as amazing as it may seem no > additional generator capacity would be needed (if your maths are right > which they seem to be). > > Michel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jed Rothwell" > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 10:28 PM > Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline > > >> Horace Heffner wrote: >> >>>We may get away with that for a while, but sooner or later the states > have >>>to find a way to pay for the road maintenance currently paid for by > gas >>>taxes. Meanwhile, the lack of road taxes on electricity is a great > and >>>automatic incentive. >> >> I had not thought of that. However, the Federal road maintenance > highway >> tax is only $.18 per gallon, or 0.8 cents per mile for the average > car. >> You could replace it with a mileage tax based on the odometer reading, > or >> a simple flat fee per vehicle. >> >> >>>The above map only shows current electric prices, not the incremental >>>cost of new electricity. It reflects much old capital invested in >>>dams, etc. >> >> New electricity from wind power or large-scale solar in the Southwest > is >> presently expensive but if it is developed on a large scale it will > soon >> become dramatically cheaper. >> >> >>>As vehicles are converted from petroleum to electric power the > incremental >>>demand will cause new the electric rates to come more closely in line > >>>nation wide. >> >> Actually, electric vehicles use such a small amount of electricity, I >> doubt that any additional generator capacity will be needed. Some >> additional fuel will be burned and fissioned, of course. Here is 2001 > data >> from the Annual Energy Review 2002: >> >> Average annual mileage (miles per vehicle): 11,766 >> Miles per day: 32 >> Electric vehicle consumption per mile: 0.3 to 0.5 kWh (Wikipedia) >> Electric energy per day: 16 kWh >> >> In other words, recharging a car would be like plugging in a 1.5 kW >> electric room heater for just over 10 hours. If every US household did > >> this from 9:00 p.m. until the next morning, it would put no strain on > our >> generating capacity. It would be a problem with everyone did it at 3 > p.m. >> a summer afternoon, but not at night. In many houses you could > probably >> turn off a half-dozen lights and a television to save most of this > power. >> If the car dealerships and grocery stores a few miles from my house > would >> turn off half the lights they leave burning all night, they would save > >> enough electricity to power every car in the County! >> >> - Jed >> >> > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 15:45:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2GNjggJ007479; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:45:43 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2GNjgfb007467; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:45:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:45:42 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316181420.036b04f0@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 18:45:30 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline In-Reply-To: <060701c6494d$38d7e420$3800a8c0@zothan> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316115414.035d3968@mindspring.com> <001a01c64920$cf8d4180$0c2d010a@arghou.argcorp.argworldwide.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316142054.036dfc80@mindspring.com> <5491B53A-B5C2-4904-A604-6D7C72B82D4E@mtaonline.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316160956.0356f028@mindspring.com> <035501c64947$529ec3c0$3800a8c0@zothan> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316173452.036a8340@mindspring.com> <060701c6494d$38d7e420$3800a8c0@zothan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <036un.A.n0B.lifGEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67081 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michel Jullian wrote: >There may be no wind power in Georgia, but your electricity network >may be interconnected with other networks far away where there is >wind power, that's the nicety of these networks (makes up for their ugliness). States with significant wind resources are thousands of miles away, and you cannot transmit electricity that far. Georgia has no significant renewable energy resources. It is a shame you cannot transmit electricity 2000 miles because if you could, we could establish a massive solar thermal plant in a 100 square mile area of the Southwest desert, and generate all the electricity we now consume. Or we could do the same trick with wind farms in North Dakota. Alas, it is impossible. Someday high temperature superconducting wires or hydrogen pipelines may allow electricity to be transmitted across the continent. >Now would potential US wind power be enough to recharge all US >automobiles at some time or other of the night do you think? Potential US wind power could supply more energy than you get from burning the entire flow of oil from the Middle East. It could easily supply all of the energy consumed by everyone in North America. For that matter, so would a 200 square mile area of the desert. One hundred to replace all electricity, another 100 to replace all other sources of energy. Renewable energy such as solar and wind could easily meet all of our needs indefinitely, if only we had the technology to harness it. However, it would be thousands of times more expensive than cold fusion. (As are present day fossil fuel and uranium fission.) If we develop wind and solar power for the next 500 years, the price will fall until it is far cheaper than today's energy, but it will never fall to anything like the level that cold fusion could reach. Look at the 25 kW solar generator here: http://www.stirlingenergy.com/imagesdet.asp?type=allsolar&imageID=11 This prototype costs hundreds of thousands of bucks, but look at the materials and the size of the gadget. You can imagine that after 50 years of manufacturing millions of these things the cost falls to, say, $5,000. It is no bigger or more complicated than a small automobile. That would be $200/kW, for with zero fuel cost, compared to $6,000/kW for nuclear plants (where the fuel costs practically nothing), or $2,000/kW for wind (where the fuel costs absolutely nothing). In other words, in 50 years these things could easily produce electricity far cheaper than it is today. Now think of a 25 kW cold fusion generator. After 50 years of intense development, you can imagine one the size of today's 25 kW portable generators that costs $1,000, or maybe even $500. It would have no moving parts and it would last for 30 years, or maybe 50 years. (As far as I know, thermoelectric devices in a pristine, sealed environment cannot degrade much.) The gadget would not need an electric power grid. It would work 24 hours a day, unlike the Stirling Energy 25 kW generator. It would also serve as a space heater in a cogenerator configuration. Over the life of the machine the heavy water fuel it consumes would cost a few dollars. Clearly, that would reduce the cost of energy far below the levels you could achieve with the Stirling generator. The only thing remotely comparable would be 25 kW hydroelectric generator on your own property 50 feet from your house, in a climate where the stream never freezes or dries up. Even that would call for much higher maintenance costs, and much more expensive generating equipment which would have to be replaced more often. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 16:01:54 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2H01im3014073; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:01:44 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2H01hxX014059; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:01:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:01:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316190105.037139e0@mindspring.com> Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316185919.0370df58@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:01:36 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Electric vehicle on-line spreadsheet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67082 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I forgot about charger efficiency, but this spreadsheet basically confirms my estimate. Plug in the numbers for today's cost of fuel and the average distance driven (11,766 miles). See: http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett/EV/cost.php - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 16:24:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2H0OW2d022683; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:24:33 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2H0OQRd022640; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:24:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:24:26 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316191436.0370de10@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:24:09 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316181420.036b04f0@mindspring.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316115414.035d3968@mindspring.com> <001a01c64920$cf8d4180$0c2d010a@arghou.argcorp.argworldwide.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316142054.036dfc80@mindspring.com> <5491B53A-B5C2-4904-A604-6D7C72B82D4E@mtaonline.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316160956.0356f028@mindspring.com> <035501c64947$529ec3c0$3800a8c0@zothan> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316173452.036a8340@mindspring.com> <060701c6494d$38d7e420$3800a8c0@zothan> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316181420.036b04f0@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67083 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I wrote: >Now think of a 25 kW cold fusion generator. After 50 years of >intense development, you can imagine one the size of today's 25 kW >portable generators that costs $1,000, or maybe even $500. In a walk. An ICE costs ~40/kW of capacity, or $750 for 25 kW. After hundreds of millions of CF generators have been produced, and after robots become widespread and CF reduces the cost of raw materials, I will bet generators are a lot cheaper than that. Generator cost and all, a century from now, the average person will pay a few bucks a year for unlimited amounts of cold fusion electricity. Nothing else -- not wind, fission, fusion, or space-based solar -- could ever come close. Nothing else could produce massive amounts of energy to irrigate 4 million square kilometers of desert, and do all these other pet projects of mine, described in the book. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 17:44:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2H1iI4H019959; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:44:18 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2H1iHwj019949; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:44:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:44:17 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <062701c64958$b3e6e0c0$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316115414.035d3968@mindspring.com> <001a01c64920$cf8d4180$0c2d010a@arghou.argcorp.argworldwide.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316142054.036dfc80@mindspring.com> <5491B53A-B5C2-4904-A604-6D7C72B82D4E@mtaonline.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316160956.0356f028@mindspring.com> <035501c64947$529ec3c0$3800a8c0@zothan> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316173452.036a8340@mindspring.com> <060701c6494d$38d7e420$3800a8c0@zothan> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316181420.036b04f0@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 01:21:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0611-1, 16/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: <0sTel.A.l3E.wRhGEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67084 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed, thanks for the link to the spreadsheet. We do exchange electricity between european countries over here, but not across 2000 miles that's for sure. I couldn't agree more about CF, I am all for it, that's why I get so frustrated that CF issues aren't addressed a bit faster and with more efficiency, do we want to see this thing working in our lifetime I wonder? Good night Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jed Rothwell" To: Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 12:45 AM Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline > Michel Jullian wrote: > >>There may be no wind power in Georgia, but your electricity network may be >>interconnected with other networks far away where there is wind power, >>that's the nicety of these networks (makes up for their ugliness). > > States with significant wind resources are thousands of miles away, and > you cannot transmit electricity that far. Georgia has no significant > renewable energy resources. > > It is a shame you cannot transmit electricity 2000 miles because if you > could, we could establish a massive solar thermal plant in a 100 square > mile area of the Southwest desert, and generate all the electricity we now > consume. Or we could do the same trick with wind farms in North Dakota. > Alas, it is impossible. Someday high temperature superconducting wires or > hydrogen pipelines may allow electricity to be transmitted across the > continent. > > >>Now would potential US wind power be enough to recharge all US automobiles >>at some time or other of the night do you think? > > Potential US wind power could supply more energy than you get from burning > the entire flow of oil from the Middle East. It could easily supply all of > the energy consumed by everyone in North America. For that matter, so > would a 200 square mile area of the desert. One hundred to replace all > electricity, another 100 to replace all other sources of energy. > > Renewable energy such as solar and wind could easily meet all of our needs > indefinitely, if only we had the technology to harness it. However, it > would be thousands of times more expensive than cold fusion. (As are > present day fossil fuel and uranium fission.) If we develop wind and solar > power for the next 500 years, the price will fall until it is far cheaper > than today's energy, but it will never fall to anything like the level > that cold fusion could reach. Look at the 25 kW solar generator here: > > http://www.stirlingenergy.com/imagesdet.asp?type=allsolar&imageID=11 > > This prototype costs hundreds of thousands of bucks, but look at the > materials and the size of the gadget. You can imagine that after 50 years > of manufacturing millions of these things the cost falls to, say, $5,000. > It is no bigger or more complicated than a small automobile. That would be > $200/kW, for with zero fuel cost, compared to $6,000/kW for nuclear plants > (where the fuel costs practically nothing), or $2,000/kW for wind (where > the fuel costs absolutely nothing). In other words, in 50 years these > things could easily produce electricity far cheaper than it is today. > > Now think of a 25 kW cold fusion generator. After 50 years of intense > development, you can imagine one the size of today's 25 kW portable > generators that costs $1,000, or maybe even $500. It would have no moving > parts and it would last for 30 years, or maybe 50 years. (As far as I > know, thermoelectric devices in a pristine, sealed environment cannot > degrade much.) The gadget would not need an electric power grid. It would > work 24 hours a day, unlike the Stirling Energy 25 kW generator. It would > also serve as a space heater in a cogenerator configuration. Over the life > of the machine the heavy water fuel it consumes would cost a few dollars. > Clearly, that would reduce the cost of energy far below the levels you > could achieve with the Stirling generator. The only thing remotely > comparable would be 25 kW hydroelectric generator on your own property 50 > feet from your house, in a climate where the stream never freezes or dries > up. Even that would call for much higher maintenance costs, and much more > expensive generating equipment which would have to be replaced more often. > > - Jed > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 19:13:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2H3AGQ1024665; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:13:06 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2H320O6021427; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:02:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:02:00 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electric vehicle on-line spreadsheet Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 14:01:36 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316190105.037139e0@mindspring.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316185919.0370df58@mindspring.com> In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316190105.037139e0@mindspring.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316185919.0370df58@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta02ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Fri, 17 Mar 2006 03:01:36 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2H31li4021383 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67085 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:01:36 -0500: Hi, [snip] >I forgot about charger efficiency, but this spreadsheet basically >confirms my estimate. Plug in the numbers for today's cost of fuel >and the average distance driven (11,766 miles). See: > >http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett/EV/cost.php If the batteries are connected in series such that the total voltage roughly equals that of the grid, then no transformer is necessary, and the "charger efficiency" is increased. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 19:44:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2H3iGCK006928; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:44:16 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2H3iExM006906; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:44:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:44:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <441A2A91.7050806@comcast.net> References: <441A2A91.7050806@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <2B0AA629-501E-4920-825A-2EE42BA2DEC1@mtaonline.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Cold Fusion & Supernova 1987A] Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 18:44:09 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67087 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mar 16, 2006, at 6:18 PM, Bob Fickle wrote: > > > A 100 GeV charged particle (electron OR proton) has a radius of > curvature in the galactic field (1 microgauss avgerage) of about 3 > billion km (3 light-hours). No way they're crossing galactic > distances anytime soon- probably billions, rather than millions, of > years.. They only have to go 150,000 ly. Don't forget, the photons left 150,000 years ago. The electrons are right behind. In other words, (1-0.99999999)*150000y = 0.0015 year = 0.5481 days Fred's making sense to me. What's a few extra hours for curvature? Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 19:56:41 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2H3uOu2011777; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:56:24 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2H3uMZK011745; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:56:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:56:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316181420.036b04f0@mindspring.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316115414.035d3968@mindspring.com> <001a01c64920$cf8d4180$0c2d010a@arghou.argcorp.argworldwide.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316142054.036dfc80@mindspring.com> <5491B53A-B5C2-4904-A604-6D7C72B82D4E@mtaonline.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316160956.0356f028@mindspring.com> <035501c64947$529ec3c0$3800a8c0@zothan> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316173452.036a8340@mindspring.com> <060701c6494d$38d7e420$3800a8c0@zothan> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316181420.036b04f0@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 18:56:18 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67089 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mar 16, 2006, at 2:45 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > It is a shame you cannot transmit electricity 2000 miles because if > you could, we could establish a massive solar thermal plant in a > 100 square mile area of the Southwest desert, and generate all the > electricity we now consume. Or we could do the same trick with wind > farms in North Dakota. Alas, it is impossible. Someday high > temperature superconducting wires or hydrogen pipelines may allow > electricity to be transmitted across the continent. The Georgia coast seems like it should be a good place for solar chimmneys - assuming they can be built economically to handle category 5 hurricanes. The wind typically blows along the coast, which should give a solar chimney a significant boost. Power transmission from the windy state of Texas should not be infeasible if done using HVDC lines. For example, see: http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm? PgNm=TCE&Params=M1ARTA0002566 Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 20:18:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2H4IBJU020809; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:18:11 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2H4IAl8020795; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:18:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:18:10 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <441A31CA.9090104@comcast.net> References: <441A2A91.7050806@comcast.net> <2B0AA629-501E-4920-825A-2EE42BA2DEC1@mtaonline.net> <441A31CA.9090104@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Cold Fusion & Supernova 1987A] Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:18:05 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67090 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mar 16, 2006, at 6:49 PM, Bob Fickle wrote: > You miss the point. Right you are - I missed that point. > They're not coming here- they're spiralling in circles about the > size of the solar system, 150,000 light-years from here. They will > eventually drift throughout the galaxy, but on a timescale > thousands of times larger than a direct path would take. They should in part tend to follow the field lines. However, the initial EMP gradient should serve to reunite a significant amount of the nuclei with their electrons. The neutral H atoms should still carry roughly the kinetic energy of the protons, and not be deflected. This gives: (1-0.999999)*150000y = 0.0015 year = 55 days for the neutrals to start showing up. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 20:24:43 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2H4OWHI023238; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:24:33 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2H4OVc4023218; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:24:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:24:31 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <73D2CA91-4142-4A62-B9C0-42221817936A@mtaonline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Horace Heffner Subject: re: Solar chimney design enhancement Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:24:27 -0900 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67091 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Revised for errors. The tops of solar towers, also known as solar chimneys, should be ringed with vertical layers of inverted airfoils. In windy conditions, nearly always present at high altitudes in many locations, these inverted airfoils about the periphery, with trailing edges to the inside, have the effect of reducing air pressure at the top of the chimney. They direct horizontal airflow upwards, thus reducing air pressure in the chimney. This enhances the Bernoulli effect already present for such chimneys. This pressure drop increases airflow and thus turbine output at the base of the chimney. Use of variable pitch airfoils permits controlled feathering and continual operation in high winds. The airfoils increase load on the structure and cost of the structure, but airfoil pitch control may be of use in preventing resonant vibration buildup in high wind conditions. The use of such airfoils increases the optimal chimney aspect ratio to less than that which is optimal without the airfoils. A typical (height to diameter) aspect ratio for solar towers is currently 6. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 22:12:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2H6C9LN030696; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:12:10 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2H6C4KA030660; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:12:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:12:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: ThomasClark123@aol.com Message-ID: <9e.380fa590.314bad22@aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 01:11:46 EST Subject: Re: Electrostatic Hover Cars To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1142575906" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67092 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1142575906 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/10/2006 8:33:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, hohlrauml6d@netscape.net writes: Then fnord what's the point of reading? Terry When I speed read, I do pick up the general idea and remember the basic facts and figures. I then save all of the emails you post on DVD's, and print most of them on hard copy paper to save in files, and read the emails that interested me the most later when I have more time. I read most of the patents posted in detail. I plan to use the patents, and other pertinent email posts to develop products for my pre-planned, self sustaining community ventures. I also hoped to start a library someday to preserve the email posts, and some of the books I have collected on alternative energy. -------------------------------1142575906 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 3/10/2006 8:33:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, hohlraum= l6d@netscape.net writes:

Then fnord what's the point of reading?
Terry
When I speed read, I do pick up the general idea and remember the basic= facts and figures.  I then save all of the emails you post on DVD's, a= nd print most of them on hard copy paper to save in files, and read the emai= ls that interested me the most later when I have more time. I read= most of the patents posted in detail.  I plan to use the patents,= and other pertinent email posts to develop products for my pre-pl= anned, self sustaining community ventures.  I also hoped to start a lib= rary someday to preserve the email posts, and some of the books I have colle= cted on alternative energy.
-------------------------------1142575906-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 22:24:08 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2H6Nxir004867; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:23:59 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2H6NvPB004845; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:23:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:23:57 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060317062353779.BE4321C00084@mwinf3204.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060317062355.009f463c@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:23:55 +0000 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Efimov state - key to multi-nuclear LENR? Resent-Message-ID: <0rhCYB.A.pLB.9XlGEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67093 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:10 am 16/03/2006 -0800, Jones wrote: > "This ring means that three objects are entangled. If you pick up > any one of them, the other two > will follow. However, if you cut one of them off, the other two > will fall apart," Chin said. > > "There is something magic about this number of three." > > > Ha! In a number of past posts I have tried to wax poetic on the > subject of triad "Form", and in particular the so-called Borromean > structures (three interlocking rings) which are > fascinating in the context of nuclear theory. > > http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20040529/fob7.asp > > ... but I was not aware of the so-called Efimov structure.... Are > they related? > > ....you bet your fur they are, mother nature. Mmm... Interesting stuff Jones. And now that I have looked up Borremean rings on google images I can proudly say that this is one of your passions that I really understand. I was trying to visualize it with three proper rings and I couldn't. I now see why. It's cos they are not proper rings at all. Still, to be fair you did first call them "structures". 8-) > ...............The so-called "Borromean Ring" is visually this > different kind of triad interlocking ring-form - which commonly > adorned Viking art and Renaissance architecture. This structure > has the property that no two rings are interlocking, therefore if > any one of the rings is removed, then all three separate. That > would indicate temporary stability... > It gets curiouser and curiouser.... Cried Alice (she was so much surprised, that for the moment she quite forgot how to speak good English). “Now I’m opening out like the largest telescope that ever was!... http://www.ruthannzaroff.com/wonderland/curiouser.htm From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 06:08:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HE8W2m010111; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:08:33 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2HE8SS0010059; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:08:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:08:28 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=VYtwVwBAwlJZOdS6skr3EJmV+g/dqoyYVVv+0d0kOVNWUKw5wbEIXSatDXuWOpIl; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006351714815156@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Cold Fusion & Supernova 1987A] Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:08:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9405cad7e415234612a7067d7aaba568d27350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.102 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67094 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Maybe the gamma burst was the culprit? OTOH "Cygnons" could be Positronium (coupled electron-positron pairs). Fred http://www.energystorm.us/Transmutation_Of_Radioactive_Nuclear_Waste-r80699.html Studies have shown that all proposed transmutation processes to treat RNW using neutron reactions are deficient or marginal at best from the point of view of energy consumption and/or cost. We suggest an alternative approach that has not been considered to date: the transmutation of RNW elements using high-energy photons or gamma rays. The photo-disintegration of RNW may provide an effective way to treat reprocessed waste; waste that has been chemically separated or the residual waste left over after neutron processing. Photo-disintegration is attractive in that any isotope can be transmuted. This approach is now potentially practical because of the development of micropole undulators (MPUs) that allow us to use small storage rings to economically generate photons with gamma-ray energies and to tune these ''gamma rays'' to the peak of the cross-section resonance for various RNW elements. Because the cross sections for all RNW nuclei have a broad peak with the maximum in the 12-18 MeV range, a single MPU could be used to treat both actinide and fission fragment components of RNW. The goal of this study is to make estimates of the reaction rates and energy efficiency of the transmutation of typical RNW elements using gamma rays to establish whether or not gamma-ray transmutation should be examined as a viable alternative solution to RNW warranting further study. ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Maybe the gamma burst was the culprit?
 
OTOH "Cygnons" could be Positronium (coupled electron-positron pairs).
 
Fred
 
 
Studies have shown that all proposed transmutation processes to treat RNW using neutron reactions are deficient or marginal at best from the point of view of energy consumption and/or cost. We suggest an alternative approach that has not been considered to date: the transmutation of RNW elements using high-energy photons or gamma rays. The photo-disintegration of RNW may provide an effective way to treat reprocessed waste; waste that has been chemically separated or the residual waste left over after neutron processing. Photo-disintegration is attractive in that any isotope can be transmuted. This approach is now potentially practical because of the development of micropole undulators (MPUs) that allow us to use small storage rings to economically generate photons with gamma-ray energies and to tune these ''gamma rays'' to the peak of the cross-section resonance for various RNW elements. Because the cross sections for all RNW nuclei have a broad peak with the maximum in the 12-18 MeV range, a single MPU could be used to treat both actinide and fission fragment components of RNW. The goal of this study is to make estimates of the reaction rates and energy efficiency of the transmutation of typical RNW elements using gamma rays to establish whether or not gamma-ray transmutation should be examined as a viable alternative solution to RNW warranting further study.
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 06:31:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HEVElw025212; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:31:15 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2HEVDX2025196; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:31:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:31:13 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=J2mkJOxYmiUZdaepTZFjIS7kC64gIeiG88O9A+iMr8PyCJZt3/LEsLv1JFCsypLp; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063517143051122@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Cold Fusion & Supernova 1987A] Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:30:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940d4a8b002e8bfc11dcf98763845817689350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.138 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67095 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Interesting to associate this photon transmutation study with the D + D ----> He-4 + 24 Mev (photons) and transmutations in CF. ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 3/17/2006 7:09:18 AM Subject: Re: Cold Fusion & Supernova 1987A] Maybe the gamma burst was the culprit? OTOH "Cygnons" could be Positronium (coupled electron-positron pairs). Fred http://www.energystorm.us/Transmutation_Of_Radioactive_Nuclear_Waste-r80699.html Studies have shown that all proposed transmutation processes to treat RNW using neutron reactions are deficient or marginal at best from the point of view of energy consumption and/or cost. We suggest an alternative approach that has not been considered to date: the transmutation of RNW elements using high-energy photons or gamma rays. The photo-disintegration of RNW may provide an effective way to treat reprocessed waste; waste that has been chemically separated or the residual waste left over after neutron processing. Photo-disintegration is attractive in that any isotope can be transmuted. This approach is now potentially practical because of the development of micropole undulators (MPUs) that allow us to use small storage rings to economically generate photons with gamma-ray energies and to tune these ''gamma rays'' to the peak of the cross-section resonance for various RNW elements. Because the cross sections for all RNW nuclei hav! e a broad peak with the maximum in the 12-18 MeV range, a single MPU could be used to treat both actinide and fission fragment components of RNW. The goal of this study is to make estimates of the reaction rates and energy efficiency of the transmutation of typical RNW elements using gamma rays to establish whether or not gamma-ray transmutation should be examined as a viable alternative solution to RNW warranting further study. ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Interesting to associate this photon transmutation study with
the D + D ----> He-4 + 24 Mev (photons) and transmutations in CF.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 3/17/2006 7:09:18 AM
Subject: Re: Cold Fusion & Supernova 1987A]

Maybe the gamma burst was the culprit?
 
OTOH "Cygnons" could be Positronium (coupled electron-positron pairs).
 
Fred
 
 
Studies have shown that all proposed transmutation processes to treat RNW using neutron reactions are deficient or marginal at best from the point of view of energy consumption and/or cost. We suggest an alternative approach that has not been considered to date: the transmutation of RNW elements using high-energy photons or gamma rays. The photo-disintegration of RNW may provide an effective way to treat reprocessed waste; waste that has been chemically separated or the residual waste left over after neutron processing. Photo-disintegration is attractive in that any isotope can be transmuted. This approach is now potentially practical because of the development of micropole undulators (MPUs) that allow us to use small storage rings to economically generate photons with gamma-ray energies and to tune these ''gamma rays'' to the peak of the cross-section resonance for various RNW elements. Because the cross sections for all RNW nuclei hav! e a broad peak with the maximum in the 12-18 MeV range, a single MPU could be used to treat both actinide and fission fragment components of RNW. The goal of this study is to make estimates of the reaction rates and energy efficiency of the transmutation of typical RNW elements using gamma rays to establish whether or not gamma-ray transmutation should be examined as a viable alternative solution to RNW warranting further study.
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 06:34:53 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HEYX82026906; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:34:34 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2HEYWEN026886; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:34:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:34:32 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:34:29 -0600 Message-ID: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B57E50F@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline Thread-Index: AcZJToOWgt3yo70lRbm8WRGKXjAdqgAgGtZA From: "Zell, Chris" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Mar 2006 14:34:31.0076 (UTC) FILETIME=[E7174E40:01C649CF] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2HEYUKo026865 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67096 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have feared that, perhaps, we have encountered fundamental problems with trying to squeeze more energy density and low cost efficiency out of an electrochemical process such as batteries depend on. Where can we go beyond lithium? That's why the ultracap approach is so exciting - it's a whole new way to fix the energy storage problem. -----Original Message----- From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:JedRothwell@mindspring.com] Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 6:07 PM To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline Zell, Chris wrote: >This lack of additional generating capacity need is partly why a Really >Good Battery would have such a dramatic effect on society. You create >electric cars that run much cheaper per mile without much need for >additional fossil fuel generator use. Indeed, I think that such a >device would encourage an explosion of alternative development that >would quickly challenge utilities fossil fuel use. Don't forget, Chris: it works the other way too. Sometimes superior technology creates the opportunity, and sometimes opportunity gives rise to superior technology. This is what is happening now with batteries. We do not have Really Good Batteries but we do have Considerably Improved Batteries, such as the latest generation that are going into hybrid cars and the upcoming plug-in hybrid cars. Hundreds of thousands of hybrid cars have been manufactured and this has created a large market for improved batteries, and a flood of R&D funding. This, in turn, may eventually give rise to radically improved versions and the Holy Grail you speak of: the Really Good Battery. Batteries also improved over the last 20 years thanks to the demand for cell phones and portable computers. Persistent demand and a flood of R&D funding will not produce a radical breakthrough such as cold fusion. That sort of thing only comes along once every century or so, and it is the product of genius with no connection to the quotidian world of money and business. (Believe me, CF researchers live in a mental space light years away from what usually passes for reality.) But R&D funding will produce incremental improvements, and that may be enough to produce the Really Good Battery. Incremental improvements brought us microprocessors with 100 million components and 20 GB hard disks that fit into your pocket. Such things would have seemed utterly incredible 30 years ago -- to me, anyway. Yet they did not require any fundamental or surprising discoveries, just persistent slogging and one small improvement after another. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 06:51:37 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HEpO8K003619; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:51:24 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2HEpLGU003587; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:51:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:51:21 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <072001c649d2$3e693580$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B57E50F@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:51:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0611-1, 16/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67097 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I agree, progress in this field can't be incremental. The main issue with electrochemical batteries (lithium or whatever they might come up with in the future) is cost in the long run due to limited life (in number of recharges). A dry parallel plate type capacitor such as the EEstor device if it really works would last for ages (millions of recharges vs hundreds). We shouldn't get too excited though, people have been known to make extraordinary claims only intended for investors, I am not saying this is the case for EEstor and I certainly hope it isn't :) Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zell, Chris" To: Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 3:34 PM Subject: RE: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline >I have feared that, perhaps, we have encountered fundamental problems > with trying to squeeze more energy density and low cost efficiency out > of an > electrochemical process such as batteries depend on. Where can we go > beyond lithium? > > That's why the ultracap approach is so exciting - it's a whole new way > to fix the energy storage problem. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:JedRothwell@mindspring.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 6:07 PM > To: vortex-L@eskimo.com > Subject: RE: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline > > Zell, Chris wrote: > >>This lack of additional generating capacity need is partly why a Really > >>Good Battery would have such a dramatic effect on society. You create >>electric cars that run much cheaper per mile without much need for >>additional fossil fuel generator use. Indeed, I think that such a >>device would encourage an explosion of alternative development that >>would quickly challenge utilities fossil fuel use. > > Don't forget, Chris: it works the other way too. Sometimes superior > technology creates the opportunity, and sometimes opportunity gives rise > to superior technology. This is what is happening now with batteries. We > do not have Really Good Batteries but we do have Considerably Improved > Batteries, such as the latest generation that are going into hybrid cars > and the upcoming plug-in hybrid cars. > Hundreds of thousands of hybrid cars have been manufactured and this has > created a large market for improved batteries, and a flood of R&D > funding. This, in turn, may eventually give rise to radically improved > versions and the Holy Grail you speak of: the Really Good Battery. > > Batteries also improved over the last 20 years thanks to the demand for > cell phones and portable computers. > > Persistent demand and a flood of R&D funding will not produce a radical > breakthrough such as cold fusion. That sort of thing only comes along > once every century or so, and it is the product of genius with no > connection to the quotidian world of money and business. > (Believe me, CF researchers live in a mental space light years away from > what usually passes for reality.) But R&D funding will produce > incremental improvements, and that may be enough to produce the Really > Good Battery. Incremental improvements brought us microprocessors with > 100 million components and 20 GB hard disks that fit into your pocket. > Such things would have seemed utterly incredible 30 years ago -- to me, > anyway. Yet they did not require any fundamental or surprising > discoveries, just persistent slogging and one small improvement after > another. > > - Jed > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 07:01:41 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HF1OTY010069; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:01:25 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2HF1Lp3010050; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:01:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:01:21 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060317095728.035e1a18@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 10:00:55 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline In-Reply-To: <062701c64958$b3e6e0c0$3800a8c0@zothan> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316115414.035d3968@mindspring.com> <001a01c64920$cf8d4180$0c2d010a@arghou.argcorp.argworldwide.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316142054.036dfc80@mindspring.com> <5491B53A-B5C2-4904-A604-6D7C72B82D4E@mtaonline.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316160956.0356f028@mindspring.com> <035501c64947$529ec3c0$3800a8c0@zothan> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316173452.036a8340@mindspring.com> <060701c6494d$38d7e420$3800a8c0@zothan> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316181420.036b04f0@mindspring.com> <062701c64958$b3e6e0c0$3800a8c0@zothan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67098 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michel Jullian wrote: >I couldn't agree more about CF, I am all for it, that's why I get so >frustrated that CF issues aren't addressed a bit faster and with >more efficiency, do we want to see this thing working in our lifetime I wonder? That all depends on politics. If we could persuade the public that CF is real, speed and efficiency of the research would increase by a factor about 100,000. I am not exaggerating; based on the history of airplanes and transistors, that is roughly how many more people and how much more funding would come into the field. If one or two breakthroughs are made, and a practical cell begins to emerge, there will soon be more progress every month than there has been over the last 10 years. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 07:07:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HF7IKx014018; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:07:18 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2HF7GYH014002; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:07:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:07:16 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <002201c649d4$77e49000$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <2.2.32.20060317062355.009f463c@pop.freeserve.net> Subject: Re: Efimov state - key to multi-nuclear LENR? Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:07:10 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: <_VIWiC.A.uaD.kCtGEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67099 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frank, >> This structure >> has the property that no two rings are interlocking, therefore >> if >> any one of the rings is removed, then all three separate. That >> would indicate temporary stability... >I was trying to visualize it with three proper rings and I >couldn't. I now >see why. It's cos they are not proper rings at all. Still, >to be fair you did first call them "structures". 8-) By "proper" you must mean "identical circular rings" ... then no, that won't work wihtout intersection (magician's rings) ... plus, there are many images on the google page which are not true Borromean rings. OTOH do not need to go to the "paper clip" degree of elongation either. This image is interesting in the context of three-axis spin: http://sro.theory.org/my_rings.glenna.jpg but these rings are elongated. Nor necessary for the nuclear variety. When the ring itself is sinusoidal as it must be if each item is represented as a waveform, then all three of then can *intertsect* and enst in each others pathway - and then of course they are relatively circular, and of the same size. Plus if each ring is composed of 137 full sine waves which - is obviously not divisible by two for perfect stability, then you must have that lissajous offset of 1/137 (at least) in every dynamic revloution. The Borromena wave structure is only stable as a dynamic structure. I suspect that on some level of understanding - that relates to the more basic question of "why" the alpha constant is not really e'xactly 1/137' but has that small "overage" - which is of course due to the fact that it cannot be measured on a true plane - and the "overage" is most likely due to either the dynamic offset itself, or the cuvature of space. >> It gets curiouser and curiouser.... > Cried Alice (she was so much surprised, that for > the moment she quite forgot how to speak good > English). "Now I'm opening out like the largest > telescope that ever was!... ... which was quite a good-bye feat, Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 07:14:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HFEGOv017207; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:14:17 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2HFEEt2017191; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:14:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:14:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <072d01c649d5$719a30f0$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316115414.035d3968@mindspring.com> <001a01c64920$cf8d4180$0c2d010a@arghou.argcorp.argworldwide.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316142054.036dfc80@mindspring.com> <5491B53A-B5C2-4904-A604-6D7C72B82D4E@mtaonline.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316160956.0356f028@mindspring.com> <035501c64947$529ec3c0$3800a8c0@zothan> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316173452.036a8340@mindspring.com> <060701c6494d$38d7e420$3800a8c0@zothan> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316181420.036b04f0@mindspring.com> <062701c64958$b3e6e0c0$3800a8c0@zothan> <7.0.1.0.2.20060317095728.035e1a18@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:14:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0611-2, 17/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67100 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: That's why I think videos of working experiments which would make nice stories for TV should be taken. Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jed Rothwell" To: Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 4:00 PM Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline > Michel Jullian wrote: > >>I couldn't agree more about CF, I am all for it, that's why I get so >>frustrated that CF issues aren't addressed a bit faster and with more >>efficiency, do we want to see this thing working in our lifetime I wonder? > > That all depends on politics. If we could persuade the public that CF is > real, speed and efficiency of the research would increase by a factor > about 100,000. I am not exaggerating; based on the history of airplanes > and transistors, that is roughly how many more people and how much more > funding would come into the field. If one or two breakthroughs are made, > and a practical cell begins to emerge, there will soon be more progress > every month than there has been over the last 10 years. > > - Jed > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 07:40:37 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HFe6cX029365; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:40:18 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2HFc8rT028400; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:38:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 07:38:08 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=eGqeZH705HsXX3pJ8OuLHxWZWWd4gxpZQUU5afcgTHKK2Nel+byd0mQPHJHoAJvG; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200635171537345@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:37:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94050ca0c74f24b976e5f8e55a81e3bae89350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.150 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67101 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From what I've seen on this topic, no one has suggested putting a high efficiency battery (comparable to the one in your vehicle) or other storage device in your garage and charging it with a rooftop solar panel, windmill (this was done down on the farm in the 1930s), waste heat device, then charge your vehicle from it while you are on rest mode. Then there are piped-in-hydrogen fuel cells on the horizon also. The Eiffel Tower could sport a windmill on top, Michel. :-) Fred Michel Jullian wrote. > > > I agree, progress in this field can't be incremental. The main issue with > electrochemical batteries (lithium or whatever they might come up with in > the future) is cost in the long run due to limited life (in number of > recharges). A dry parallel plate type capacitor such as the EEstor device if > it really works would last for ages (millions of recharges vs hundreds). > > We shouldn't get too excited though, people have been known to make > extraordinary claims only intended for investors, I am not saying this is > the case for EEstor and I certainly hope it isn't :) > > Michel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Zell, Chris" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 3:34 PM > Subject: RE: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline > > > >I have feared that, perhaps, we have encountered fundamental problems > > with trying to squeeze more energy density and low cost efficiency out > > of an > > electrochemical process such as batteries depend on. Where can we go > > beyond lithium? > > > > That's why the ultracap approach is so exciting - it's a whole new way > > to fix the energy storage problem. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:JedRothwell@mindspring.com] > > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 6:07 PM > > To: vortex-L@eskimo.com > > Subject: RE: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline > > > > Zell, Chris wrote: > > > >>This lack of additional generating capacity need is partly why a Really > > > >>Good Battery would have such a dramatic effect on society. You create > >>electric cars that run much cheaper per mile without much need for > >>additional fossil fuel generator use. Indeed, I think that such a > >>device would encourage an explosion of alternative development that > >>would quickly challenge utilities fossil fuel use. > > > > Don't forget, Chris: it works the other way too. Sometimes superior > > technology creates the opportunity, and sometimes opportunity gives rise > > to superior technology. This is what is happening now with batteries. We > > do not have Really Good Batteries but we do have Considerably Improved > > Batteries, such as the latest generation that are going into hybrid cars > > and the upcoming plug-in hybrid cars. > > Hundreds of thousands of hybrid cars have been manufactured and this has > > created a large market for improved batteries, and a flood of R&D > > funding. This, in turn, may eventually give rise to radically improved > > versions and the Holy Grail you speak of: the Really Good Battery. > > > > Batteries also improved over the last 20 years thanks to the demand for > > cell phones and portable computers. > > > > Persistent demand and a flood of R&D funding will not produce a radical > > breakthrough such as cold fusion. That sort of thing only comes along > > once every century or so, and it is the product of genius with no > > connection to the quotidian world of money and business. > > (Believe me, CF researchers live in a mental space light years away from > > what usually passes for reality.) But R&D funding will produce > > incremental improvements, and that may be enough to produce the Really > > Good Battery. Incremental improvements brought us microprocessors with > > 100 million components and 20 GB hard disks that fit into your pocket. > > Such things would have seemed utterly incredible 30 years ago -- to me, > > anyway. Yet they did not require any fundamental or surprising > > discoveries, just persistent slogging and one small improvement after > > another. > > > > - Jed > > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 08:40:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HGe7MK028514; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:40:17 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2HGVf0N024938; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:31:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 08:31:41 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=ONXVczcz5HvV9gKrgqmC4arRK9MzCFYmSVuTTcNRAY/A1sjZEc0v/G4erZjr3sW+; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063517163114876@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Efimov state - key to multi-nuclear LENR? Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:31:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94093b05e21748c6dbe464a9e631b8b095f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.120.178 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67102 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones. You picked up on the 137 contact points of (Crotalus cerastes Particlaes) didn't you? :-) Particle Wavelength Lambda = hc/E = circumference of "frictionless jar". containing said snake Frequency f = c/lambda = 1.23e20 Hz for electron or positron. Displacement current I = q*f =19.68 amperes q = C*V = (eo*lambda = 2.155e-23 farad) * V = 1.6e-19 coulombs V= (E/0.5*2.155e-23)^1/2 = 8.7e4 Volts But I = V/Zo (Zo = 377 ohms) = 230.7 amperes and 230.7/19.68 = 11.726 = (137.03)^1/2. ??? Fred http://www.ucs.louisiana.edu/~brm2286/locomotn.htm "Sidewinding is used by many snakes crawling on smooth or slippery surfaces, but is best known in the sidewinder rattlesnake (Crotalus cerastes) and a few desert vipers of Africa and Asia. Sidewinding is similar to lateral undulation in the pattern of bending, but differs in three critical ways: First, each point along the body is sequentially placed in static (rather than sliding) friction with the substrate. Second, segments of the body are lifted off the ground between the regions in static contact with the ground. Thus, the body sort of rolls along the ground from neck to tail, forming a characteristic track (that is proportional to body length) in sand; after being lifted off the ground and set down again a short distance away, the front part of the body begins a new track while the rear part of the body completes the old track. Third, because of the static contact and lifting of the body, the snake travels roughly diagonally relative to the tracks it forms on the ground. Muscle activity during sidewinding is similar to that in lateral undulation except that some muscles are also active bilaterally in the regions of trunk lifting." Jones Sidewinder Beene wrote. > > Frank, > > >> This structure > >> has the property that no two rings are interlocking, therefore > >> if > >> any one of the rings is removed, then all three separate. That > >> would indicate temporary stability... > > >I was trying to visualize it with three proper rings and I > >couldn't. I now > >see why. It's cos they are not proper rings at all. Still, > >to be fair you did first call them "structures". 8-) > > By "proper" you must mean "identical circular rings" ... then no, > that won't work wihtout intersection (magician's rings) ... plus, > there are many images on the google page which are not true > Borromean rings. > > OTOH do not need to go to the "paper clip" degree of elongation > either. > > This image is interesting in the context of three-axis spin: > http://sro.theory.org/my_rings.glenna.jpg > > but these rings are elongated. Nor necessary for the nuclear > variety. > > When the ring itself is sinusoidal as it must be if each item is > represented as a waveform, then all three of then can *intertsect* > and enst in each others pathway - and then of course they are > relatively circular, and of the same size. > > Plus if each ring is composed of 137 full sine waves which - is > obviously not divisible by two for perfect stability, then you > must have that lissajous offset of 1/137 (at least) in every > dynamic revloution. The Borromena wave structure is only stable as > a dynamic structure. > > I suspect that on some level of understanding - that relates to > the more basic question of "why" the alpha constant is not really > e'xactly 1/137' but has that small "overage" - which is of course > due to the fact that it cannot be measured on a true plane - and > the "overage" is most likely due to either the dynamic offset > itself, or the cuvature of space. > > > >> It gets curiouser and curiouser.... > > > Cried Alice (she was so much surprised, that for > > the moment she quite forgot how to speak good > > English). "Now I'm opening out like the largest > > telescope that ever was!... > > > ... which was quite a good-bye feat, > > Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 09:02:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HH264Z006804; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:02:06 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2HH23JV006781; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:02:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:02:03 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 12:01:57 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C817FBA29F70FB-22EC-DD4F@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Papp Variant Noble Gas Engine Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.136 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67103 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: "The Sabori Inert Gas Vacuum Engine" According to the video, a forerunner to this engine was brought to U.S. by Hungarian, Joseph Papp. Sabori joined him in 1985, investing a large sum of money in a joint venture. Mr. Papp refused to share, per contract agreement. The case ended in court in Tulsa OK in 1988. In a settlement, the judge instructed Papp to share with Sabori and to share ownership: Papp 51%, Sabori 49%. Joseph Papp died the next year of colon cancer, taking the technology to the grave with him, having destroyed all ..., formulas, equations; leaving Sabori with nothing. During last five years (per the time of the video footage), Mr. Sabori has developed 1- and 2-cylinder engines. The one-cylinder engine includes a Plexiglas sleeve for viewing the reaction. Sabori is said to have subsequently developed a technology superior to Papp, using small amounts of Helium, Neon, Argon, Krypton, Xenon, within a sealed vacuum. The engine produces no exhaust, no combustion, and requires no cooling system. The two cylinder engine, which is being perfected and which is fully functional, puts out as high as 350 horsepower at low rpm, and 500 at higher rpms, such as 700 rpm. According to mainstream science, it is not possible for inert gasses in a vacuum to produce substantial force. The Sabori video shows otherwise. http://peswiki.com/index.php/Academy:Video_of_Jimmy_Sabori's_Papp_Engine_ Variants http://tinyurl.com/sxzfr ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 09:08:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HH7qGs009944; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:07:53 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2HH7jM5009888; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:07:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:07:45 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-IronPort-AV: i="4.03,105,1141621200"; d="scan'208"; a="2102071612:sNHT52443904" Message-ID: <28385257.1142614887267.JavaMail.root@fepweb12> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 9:01:27 -0800 From: OrionWorks To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Flywheels to be used in N.Y. and Calif. to store electricity Cc: orionworks@charter.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Sensitivity: Normal Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67104 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Vorts, A recent comment I read several weeks ago from my subscription to Kiplinger Forecasts caught my attention. The newsletter claimed that there would be a [new] form of energy storage technology that would debut sometime in 2007 in both New York and California. The technology would allow utilities to make electricity overnight and store it, presumably more efficiently. I asked Kiplinger if they could be more specific about what kind of "technology" was involved. Here's what I found out: Check out Beacon Power, http://www.beaconpower.com, specifically the topic on "Energy Storage Systems." Apparently, flywheel technology will be used. Here's additional info on the project from the government Office of Electricity Delivery & Energy Reliability. http://www.electricity.doe.gov/program/electric_rd_estorage.cfm?section=program&level2=estorage or http://tinyurl.com/nlva3 And here's another link to Sandia National Laboratories, where they also discuss the Beacon Flywheel System. See: http://www.sandia.gov/ess/ " Beacon Flywheel System Installed at DUIT Facility As part of the CEC / DOE energy storage collaboration, Beacon Power has completed assembly of a flywheel system to provide grid frequency regulation. The 100 kW / 15 min system consists of seven 500 lb, 22,000 rpm, magnetically levitated rotors. After completion of factory testing, the system was trucked across the U.S. for further testing at the PG&E DUIT facility in San Ramon, CA. The system was inaugurated Dec. 6, 2005 at an event attended by representatives of CEC, DOE, Cal ISO and PG&E (Beacon Press Release)." Some related additional resources listed are: Electricity Storage Association http://www.energystorage.org/ Another interesting resource to check out is: The Energy Blog - Energy Storage section http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/energy_storage/index.html or http://tinyurl.com/rnwhl BTW, I noticed they discuss the merits of switchgrass at this blog site. ...and finally the following publication is available at Amazon Books. Energy Storage: A Nontechnical Guide (PennWell Publishing, 2005) http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/159370027X/sr=1-1/qid=1139408741/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-9696362-2352136?%5Fencoding=UTF8 or http://tinyurl.com/lbqq4 Enjoy your weekend! Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 09:10:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HHA2DH010956; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:10:20 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2HH8b8a010337; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:08:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:08:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <075b01c649e5$6c06ef10$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-2200635171537345@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:08:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0611-2, 17/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: <0YNnSC.A.ahC.V0uGEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67105 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Well no the Eiffel Tower couldn't support a windmill on top as it already supports TV emitters, and your scheme would make TV emissions stroboscopic at a frequency depending on wind speed :) A storage device in the garage will be recommended indeed, but it's not practical with electrochemistry because of the lifetime issues I mentioned. Ultracaps would be fine though, and would allow recharging in a matter of minutes i.e. as fast as refilling your gas tank. That's how EEstor envisions refill stations BTW, lots of ultracaps. BTW Fred (and other distinguished vorts) I would be interested in your opinion on the EEStor patent I discovered a few days ago http://appft1.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html (copy-paste app number 0040071944, I haven't found how to link directly to the patent) Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 4:37 PM Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline > >From what I've seen on this topic, no one has suggested putting a high > efficiency > battery (comparable to the one in your vehicle) or other storage device in > your garage > and charging it with a rooftop solar panel, windmill (this was done down > on > the farm in the 1930s), > waste heat device, then charge your vehicle from it while you are > on rest mode. Then there are piped-in-hydrogen fuel cells on the horizon > also. > > The Eiffel Tower could sport a windmill on top, Michel. :-) > > Fred > > Michel Jullian wrote. >> >> >> I agree, progress in this field can't be incremental. The main issue with >> electrochemical batteries (lithium or whatever they might come up with in >> the future) is cost in the long run due to limited life (in number of >> recharges). A dry parallel plate type capacitor such as the EEstor device > if >> it really works would last for ages (millions of recharges vs hundreds). >> >> We shouldn't get too excited though, people have been known to make >> extraordinary claims only intended for investors, I am not saying this is >> the case for EEstor and I certainly hope it isn't :) >> >> Michel >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Zell, Chris" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 3:34 PM >> Subject: RE: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline >> >> >> >I have feared that, perhaps, we have encountered fundamental problems >> > with trying to squeeze more energy density and low cost efficiency out >> > of an >> > electrochemical process such as batteries depend on. Where can we go >> > beyond lithium? >> > >> > That's why the ultracap approach is so exciting - it's a whole new way >> > to fix the energy storage problem. >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:JedRothwell@mindspring.com] >> > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 6:07 PM >> > To: vortex-L@eskimo.com >> > Subject: RE: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline >> > >> > Zell, Chris wrote: >> > >> >>This lack of additional generating capacity need is partly why a Really >> > >> >>Good Battery would have such a dramatic effect on society. You create >> >>electric cars that run much cheaper per mile without much need for >> >>additional fossil fuel generator use. Indeed, I think that such a >> >>device would encourage an explosion of alternative development that >> >>would quickly challenge utilities fossil fuel use. >> > >> > Don't forget, Chris: it works the other way too. Sometimes superior >> > technology creates the opportunity, and sometimes opportunity gives >> > rise >> > to superior technology. This is what is happening now with batteries. >> > We >> > do not have Really Good Batteries but we do have Considerably Improved >> > Batteries, such as the latest generation that are going into hybrid >> > cars >> > and the upcoming plug-in hybrid cars. >> > Hundreds of thousands of hybrid cars have been manufactured and this >> > has >> > created a large market for improved batteries, and a flood of R&D >> > funding. This, in turn, may eventually give rise to radically improved >> > versions and the Holy Grail you speak of: the Really Good Battery. >> > >> > Batteries also improved over the last 20 years thanks to the demand for >> > cell phones and portable computers. >> > >> > Persistent demand and a flood of R&D funding will not produce a radical >> > breakthrough such as cold fusion. That sort of thing only comes along >> > once every century or so, and it is the product of genius with no >> > connection to the quotidian world of money and business. >> > (Believe me, CF researchers live in a mental space light years away >> > from >> > what usually passes for reality.) But R&D funding will produce >> > incremental improvements, and that may be enough to produce the Really >> > Good Battery. Incremental improvements brought us microprocessors with >> > 100 million components and 20 GB hard disks that fit into your pocket. >> > Such things would have seemed utterly incredible 30 years ago -- to me, >> > anyway. Yet they did not require any fundamental or surprising >> > discoveries, just persistent slogging and one small improvement after >> > another. >> > >> > - Jed >> > >> > > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 09:53:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HHr8Nm032604; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:53:09 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2HHr78e032590; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:53:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:53:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=oa6CzoQDb4Bq7+9RHRvCXVHv/DY0oFkuh+0xV4/Qq3z4lk5OPLbTrX56WZYCBb5O; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063517175252564@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 10:52:52 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940a98beb851f10ed73ab6ce92ff8c4da16350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.162 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67106 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Any way you slice it, Michel battery storage of electricity off the Grid is the most practical way to "store" Pipeline Hydrogen for Vehicle use. Fred Michel Jullian wrote: > > Well no the Eiffel Tower couldn't support a windmill on top as it already > supports TV emitters, and your scheme would make TV emissions stroboscopic > at a frequency depending on wind speed :) > > A storage device in the garage will be recommended indeed, but it's not > practical with electrochemistry because of the lifetime issues I mentioned. > Ultracaps would be fine though, and would allow recharging in a matter of > minutes i.e. as fast as refilling your gas tank. That's how EEstor envisions > refill stations BTW, lots of ultracaps. > > BTW Fred (and other distinguished vorts) I would be interested in your > opinion on the EEStor patent I discovered a few days ago > http://appft1.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html (copy-paste app number > 0040071944, I haven't found how to link directly to the patent) > > Michel > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frederick Sparber" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 4:37 PM > Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline > > > > >From what I've seen on this topic, no one has suggested putting a high > > efficiency > > battery (comparable to the one in your vehicle) or other storage device in > > your garage > > and charging it with a rooftop solar panel, windmill (this was done down > > on > > the farm in the 1930s), > > waste heat device, then charge your vehicle from it while you are > > on rest mode. Then there are piped-in-hydrogen fuel cells on the horizon > > also. > > > > The Eiffel Tower could sport a windmill on top, Michel. :-) > > > > Fred > > > > Michel Jullian wrote. > >> > >> > >> I agree, progress in this field can't be incremental. The main issue with > >> electrochemical batteries (lithium or whatever they might come up with in > >> the future) is cost in the long run due to limited life (in number of > >> recharges). A dry parallel plate type capacitor such as the EEstor device > > if > >> it really works would last for ages (millions of recharges vs hundreds). > >> > >> We shouldn't get too excited though, people have been known to make > >> extraordinary claims only intended for investors, I am not saying this is > >> the case for EEstor and I certainly hope it isn't :) > >> > >> Michel > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Zell, Chris" > >> To: > >> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 3:34 PM > >> Subject: RE: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline > >> > >> > >> >I have feared that, perhaps, we have encountered fundamental problems > >> > with trying to squeeze more energy density and low cost efficiency out > >> > of an > >> > electrochemical process such as batteries depend on. Where can we go > >> > beyond lithium? > >> > > >> > That's why the ultracap approach is so exciting - it's a whole new way > >> > to fix the energy storage problem. > >> > > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:JedRothwell@mindspring.com] > >> > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 6:07 PM > >> > To: vortex-L@eskimo.com > >> > Subject: RE: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline > >> > > >> > Zell, Chris wrote: > >> > > >> >>This lack of additional generating capacity need is partly why a Really > >> > > >> >>Good Battery would have such a dramatic effect on society. You create > >> >>electric cars that run much cheaper per mile without much need for > >> >>additional fossil fuel generator use. Indeed, I think that such a > >> >>device would encourage an explosion of alternative development that > >> >>would quickly challenge utilities fossil fuel use. > >> > > >> > Don't forget, Chris: it works the other way too. Sometimes superior > >> > technology creates the opportunity, and sometimes opportunity gives > >> > rise > >> > to superior technology. This is what is happening now with batteries. > >> > We > >> > do not have Really Good Batteries but we do have Considerably Improved > >> > Batteries, such as the latest generation that are going into hybrid > >> > cars > >> > and the upcoming plug-in hybrid cars. > >> > Hundreds of thousands of hybrid cars have been manufactured and this > >> > has > >> > created a large market for improved batteries, and a flood of R&D > >> > funding. This, in turn, may eventually give rise to radically improved > >> > versions and the Holy Grail you speak of: the Really Good Battery. > >> > > >> > Batteries also improved over the last 20 years thanks to the demand for > >> > cell phones and portable computers. > >> > > >> > Persistent demand and a flood of R&D funding will not produce a radical > >> > breakthrough such as cold fusion. That sort of thing only comes along > >> > once every century or so, and it is the product of genius with no > >> > connection to the quotidian world of money and business. > >> > (Believe me, CF researchers live in a mental space light years away > >> > from > >> > what usually passes for reality.) But R&D funding will produce > >> > incremental improvements, and that may be enough to produce the Really > >> > Good Battery. Incremental improvements brought us microprocessors with > >> > 100 million components and 20 GB hard disks that fit into your pocket. > >> > Such things would have seemed utterly incredible 30 years ago -- to me, > >> > anyway. Yet they did not require any fundamental or surprising > >> > discoveries, just persistent slogging and one small improvement after > >> > another. > >> > > >> > - Jed > >> > > >> > > > > > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 09:55:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HHtQSn001275; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:55:26 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2HHtNnH001230; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:55:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:55:23 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <200603171755.k2HHtFmg030415@mail2.mx.voyager.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:55:14 -0600 From: "OrionWorks" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: svj@orionworks.com Reply-To: svj@orionworks.com Subject: Flywheel in homes. Could it be economical? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_79a910225d159b0692a66895758a5300" X-Mailer: CoreComm Webmail X-IPAddress: 130.47.34.2 Resent-Message-ID: <7OslVB.A.CT.KgvGEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67107 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=_79a910225d159b0692a66895758a5300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Vorts, The recent flywheel Beacon Power technology that was brought to my attention made me wonder if there might be an economic advantage in manufacturing smaller scale versions of this technology that perhaps could be installed in a typical homeowner's basement to store "surplus" electricity, presumably during cheaper non-peak times of the day. I presume if there is any chance of this kind of technology being scaled down in order to accommodate the needs of single homes it would have to be mass-produced in sufficient quantities to drive unit costs down to a price considered economically attractive. I really don't know if that's possible. Also, I don't know what percentage of homes in the U.S. pay for electricity where costs vary depending on what time of the day it is. Here in Madison, Wisconsin (Madison Gas & Electric), I believe I'm charged a flat rate no matter what time of the day I'm using their services, so flywheel storage technology wouldn't seem to buy me any advantage at all - except perhaps for an emergency when we lose power. Fortunately, that doesn't happen very often. What do the engineers and experts on this group have to say about whether it is economically feasible, or not. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks --=_79a910225d159b0692a66895758a5300 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Vorts,

The recent flywheel Beacon Power technology that was brought to my attentio= n made me wonder if there might be an economic advantage in manufacturing s= maller scale versions of this technology that perhaps could be installed in= a typical homeowner's basement to store "surplus" electricity, presumably = during cheaper non-peak times of the day.

I presume if there is any chance of this kind of technology being scaled do= wn in order to accommodate the needs of single homes it would have to be ma= ss-produced in sufficient quantities to drive unit costs down to a price co= nsidered economically attractive. I really don't know if that's possible.
Also, I don't know what percentage of homes in the U.S. pay for electricity= where costs vary depending on what time of the day it is. Here in Madison,= Wisconsin (Madison Gas & Electric), I believe I'm charged a flat rate no m= atter what time of the day I'm using their services, so flywheel storage te= chnology wouldn't seem to buy me any advantage at all - except perhaps for = an emergency when we lose power. Fortunately, that doesn't happen very ofte= n.

What do the engineers and experts on this group have to say about whether i= t is economically feasible, or not.

Regards,
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks
--=_79a910225d159b0692a66895758a5300-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 10:29:35 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HITNZ8018158; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 10:29:23 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2HITEKu018097; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 10:29:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 10:29:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <076d01c649f0$afcfaec0$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-220063517175252564@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 19:29:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0611-2, 17/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: <1CaQUB.A.iaE.5_vGEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67108 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: (reply pb not gone Fred) Ok if by "battery" you mean ultracaps :) Wait, what do you mean by Pipeline Hydrogen? Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 6:52 PM Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline > Any way you slice it, Michel battery storage of electricity off the Grid > is > the most practical way to "store" Pipeline Hydrogen for Vehicle use. > > Fred > > Michel Jullian wrote: >> >> Well no the Eiffel Tower couldn't support a windmill on top as it already >> supports TV emitters, and your scheme would make TV emissions >> stroboscopic >> at a frequency depending on wind speed :) >> >> A storage device in the garage will be recommended indeed, but it's not >> practical with electrochemistry because of the lifetime issues I > mentioned. >> Ultracaps would be fine though, and would allow recharging in a matter of >> minutes i.e. as fast as refilling your gas tank. That's how EEstor > envisions >> refill stations BTW, lots of ultracaps. >> >> BTW Fred (and other distinguished vorts) I would be interested in your >> opinion on the EEStor patent I discovered a few days ago >> http://appft1.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html (copy-paste app number >> 0040071944, I haven't found how to link directly to the patent) >> >> Michel >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Frederick Sparber" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 4:37 PM >> Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline >> >> >> > >From what I've seen on this topic, no one has suggested putting a high >> > efficiency >> > battery (comparable to the one in your vehicle) or other storage device > in >> > your garage >> > and charging it with a rooftop solar panel, windmill (this was done > down >> > on >> > the farm in the 1930s), >> > waste heat device, then charge your vehicle from it while you are >> > on rest mode. Then there are piped-in-hydrogen fuel cells on the >> > horizon >> > also. >> > >> > The Eiffel Tower could sport a windmill on top, Michel. :-) >> > >> > Fred >> > >> > Michel Jullian wrote. >> >> >> >> >> >> I agree, progress in this field can't be incremental. The main issue > with >> >> electrochemical batteries (lithium or whatever they might come up with > in >> >> the future) is cost in the long run due to limited life (in number of >> >> recharges). A dry parallel plate type capacitor such as the EEstor > device >> > if >> >> it really works would last for ages (millions of recharges vs > hundreds). >> >> >> >> We shouldn't get too excited though, people have been known to make >> >> extraordinary claims only intended for investors, I am not saying this > is >> >> the case for EEstor and I certainly hope it isn't :) >> >> >> >> Michel >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Zell, Chris" >> >> To: >> >> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 3:34 PM >> >> Subject: RE: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline >> >> >> >> >> >> >I have feared that, perhaps, we have encountered fundamental >> >> >problems >> >> > with trying to squeeze more energy density and low cost efficiency > out >> >> > of an >> >> > electrochemical process such as batteries depend on. Where can we >> >> > go >> >> > beyond lithium? >> >> > >> >> > That's why the ultracap approach is so exciting - it's a whole new > way >> >> > to fix the energy storage problem. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> >> > From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:JedRothwell@mindspring.com] >> >> > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 6:07 PM >> >> > To: vortex-L@eskimo.com >> >> > Subject: RE: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline >> >> > >> >> > Zell, Chris wrote: >> >> > >> >> >>This lack of additional generating capacity need is partly why a > Really >> >> > >> >> >>Good Battery would have such a dramatic effect on society. You > create >> >> >>electric cars that run much cheaper per mile without much need for >> >> >>additional fossil fuel generator use. Indeed, I think that such a >> >> >>device would encourage an explosion of alternative development that >> >> >>would quickly challenge utilities fossil fuel use. >> >> > >> >> > Don't forget, Chris: it works the other way too. Sometimes superior >> >> > technology creates the opportunity, and sometimes opportunity gives >> >> > rise >> >> > to superior technology. This is what is happening now with > batteries. >> >> > We >> >> > do not have Really Good Batteries but we do have Considerably > Improved >> >> > Batteries, such as the latest generation that are going into hybrid >> >> > cars >> >> > and the upcoming plug-in hybrid cars. >> >> > Hundreds of thousands of hybrid cars have been manufactured and this >> >> > has >> >> > created a large market for improved batteries, and a flood of R&D >> >> > funding. This, in turn, may eventually give rise to radically > improved >> >> > versions and the Holy Grail you speak of: the Really Good Battery. >> >> > >> >> > Batteries also improved over the last 20 years thanks to the demand > for >> >> > cell phones and portable computers. >> >> > >> >> > Persistent demand and a flood of R&D funding will not produce a > radical >> >> > breakthrough such as cold fusion. That sort of thing only comes >> >> > along >> >> > once every century or so, and it is the product of genius with no >> >> > connection to the quotidian world of money and business. >> >> > (Believe me, CF researchers live in a mental space light years away >> >> > from >> >> > what usually passes for reality.) But R&D funding will produce >> >> > incremental improvements, and that may be enough to produce the > Really >> >> > Good Battery. Incremental improvements brought us microprocessors > with >> >> > 100 million components and 20 GB hard disks that fit into your > pocket. >> >> > Such things would have seemed utterly incredible 30 years ago -- to > me, >> >> > anyway. Yet they did not require any fundamental or surprising >> >> > discoveries, just persistent slogging and one small improvement >> >> > after >> >> > another. >> >> > >> >> > - Jed >> >> > >> >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 10:49:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HImgk9026154; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 10:48:42 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2HIme8Z026127; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 10:48:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 10:48:40 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=mB0gSZeg92jvL/tJh7xwRBHKq7yE8mninmupUmsBh0joQHcA4owQi6SdypVpEPr0; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063517184814905@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:48:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940c0c0eb20d68ec3a7dd266a5cf5a8eeeb350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.198 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67109 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michel Jullian wrote. > > Ok if by "battery" you mean ultracaps :) Wait, what do you mean by Pipeline > Hydrogen? > Hydrogen produced on a large scale by electrolysis or coal and biomass gasifican etc, delivered to the user by pipeline. Production based on demand eliminates the economically elusive cheap/safe storage solution. Fred > Michel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frederick Sparber" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 6:52 PM > Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline > > > > Any way you slice it, Michel battery storage of electricity off the Grid > > is > > the most practical way to "store" Pipeline Hydrogen for Vehicle use. > > > > Fred > > > > Michel Jullian wrote: > >> > >> Well no the Eiffel Tower couldn't support a windmill on top as it already > >> supports TV emitters, and your scheme would make TV emissions > >> stroboscopic > >> at a frequency depending on wind speed :) > >> > >> A storage device in the garage will be recommended indeed, but it's not > >> practical with electrochemistry because of the lifetime issues I > > mentioned. > >> Ultracaps would be fine though, and would allow recharging in a matter of > >> minutes i.e. as fast as refilling your gas tank. That's how EEstor > > envisions > >> refill stations BTW, lots of ultracaps. > >> > >> BTW Fred (and other distinguished vorts) I would be interested in your > >> opinion on the EEStor patent I discovered a few days ago > >> http://appft1.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html (copy-paste app number > >> 0040071944, I haven't found how to link directly to the patent) > >> > >> Michel > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Frederick Sparber" > >> To: > >> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 4:37 PM > >> Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline > >> > >> > >> > >From what I've seen on this topic, no one has suggested putting a high > >> > efficiency > >> > battery (comparable to the one in your vehicle) or other storage device > > in > >> > your garage > >> > and charging it with a rooftop solar panel, windmill (this was done > > down > >> > on > >> > the farm in the 1930s), > >> > waste heat device, then charge your vehicle from it while you are > >> > on rest mode. Then there are piped-in-hydrogen fuel cells on the > >> > horizon > >> > also. > >> > > >> > The Eiffel Tower could sport a windmill on top, Michel. :-) > >> > > >> > Fred > >> > > >> > Michel Jullian wrote. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> I agree, progress in this field can't be incremental. The main issue > > with > >> >> electrochemical batteries (lithium or whatever they might come up with > > in > >> >> the future) is cost in the long run due to limited life (in number of > >> >> recharges). A dry parallel plate type capacitor such as the EEstor > > device > >> > if > >> >> it really works would last for ages (millions of recharges vs > > hundreds). > >> >> > >> >> We shouldn't get too excited though, people have been known to make > >> >> extraordinary claims only intended for investors, I am not saying this > > is > >> >> the case for EEstor and I certainly hope it isn't :) > >> >> > >> >> Michel > >> >> > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> >> From: "Zell, Chris" > >> >> To: > >> >> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 3:34 PM > >> >> Subject: RE: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >I have feared that, perhaps, we have encountered fundamental > >> >> >problems > >> >> > with trying to squeeze more energy density and low cost efficiency > > out > >> >> > of an > >> >> > electrochemical process such as batteries depend on. Where can we > >> >> > go > >> >> > beyond lithium? > >> >> > > >> >> > That's why the ultracap approach is so exciting - it's a whole new > > way > >> >> > to fix the energy storage problem. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > -----Original Message----- > >> >> > From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:JedRothwell@mindspring.com] > >> >> > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 6:07 PM > >> >> > To: vortex-L@eskimo.com > >> >> > Subject: RE: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline > >> >> > > >> >> > Zell, Chris wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >>This lack of additional generating capacity need is partly why a > > Really > >> >> > > >> >> >>Good Battery would have such a dramatic effect on society. You > > create > >> >> >>electric cars that run much cheaper per mile without much need for > >> >> >>additional fossil fuel generator use. Indeed, I think that such a > >> >> >>device would encourage an explosion of alternative development that > >> >> >>would quickly challenge utilities fossil fuel use. > >> >> > > >> >> > Don't forget, Chris: it works the other way too. Sometimes superior > >> >> > technology creates the opportunity, and sometimes opportunity gives > >> >> > rise > >> >> > to superior technology. This is what is happening now with > > batteries. > >> >> > We > >> >> > do not have Really Good Batteries but we do have Considerably > > Improved > >> >> > Batteries, such as the latest generation that are going into hybrid > >> >> > cars > >> >> > and the upcoming plug-in hybrid cars. > >> >> > Hundreds of thousands of hybrid cars have been manufactured and this > >> >> > has > >> >> > created a large market for improved batteries, and a flood of R&D > >> >> > funding. This, in turn, may eventually give rise to radically > > improved > >> >> > versions and the Holy Grail you speak of: the Really Good Battery. > >> >> > > >> >> > Batteries also improved over the last 20 years thanks to the demand > > for > >> >> > cell phones and portable computers. > >> >> > > >> >> > Persistent demand and a flood of R&D funding will not produce a > > radical > >> >> > breakthrough such as cold fusion. That sort of thing only comes > >> >> > along > >> >> > once every century or so, and it is the product of genius with no > >> >> > connection to the quotidian world of money and business. > >> >> > (Believe me, CF researchers live in a mental space light years away > >> >> > from > >> >> > what usually passes for reality.) But R&D funding will produce > >> >> > incremental improvements, and that may be enough to produce the > > Really > >> >> > Good Battery. Incremental improvements brought us microprocessors > > with > >> >> > 100 million components and 20 GB hard disks that fit into your > > pocket. > >> >> > Such things would have seemed utterly incredible 30 years ago -- to > > me, > >> >> > anyway. Yet they did not require any fundamental or surprising > >> >> > discoveries, just persistent slogging and one small improvement > >> >> > after > >> >> > another. > >> >> > > >> >> > - Jed > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 11:03:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HJ3Hp3001704; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:03:18 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2HJ3FQx001675; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:03:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:03:15 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Originating-IP: [207.203.34.140] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "wardsworld@juno.com" Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 19:01:50 GMT To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: please remove me from your list X-Mailer: Webmail Version 4.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative;boundary="--__JWM__J0ff6.0abdS.31dfM" Message-Id: <20060317.110209.29481.161332@webmail43.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 0:0:0 X-UNTD-OriginStamp: PuRpSoKrQ4GXGg1mfox2kcLvzqmopoHXFJLxUBsAB5IqfomRoNKBhw== X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 10.141.27.183|webmail43.nyc.untd.com|webmail43.nyc.untd.com|wardsworld@juno.com Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67110 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----__JWM__J0ff6.0abdS.31dfM Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain ----__JWM__J0ff6.0abdS.31dfM Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/html ----__JWM__J0ff6.0abdS.31dfM-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 11:33:55 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HJXWbo014878; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:33:32 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2HJXUba014848; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:33:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:33:30 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 14:28:14 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8181011BF15BF-22EC-E2EC@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <410-2200635171537345@earthlink.net> <075b01c649e5$6c06ef10$3800a8c0@zothan> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <075b01c649e5$6c06ef10$3800a8c0@zothan> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: EEStor Patent(was: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.136 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2HJXQdd014795 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67111 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Michel Jullian BTW Fred (and other distinguished vorts) I would be interested in your  opinion on the EEStor patent I discovered a few days ago  http://appft1.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html (copy-paste app number  0040071944, I haven't found how to link directly to the patent)  <><><><><><> http://tinyurl.com/fmwkv Keith should love the patent app. It has lots of chemistry. T ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 11:47:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HJl106020752; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:47:01 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2HJl0tq020729; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:47:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:47:00 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: EEStor Patent(was: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 14:55:15 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <8C8181011BF15BF-22EC-E2EC@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> X-Rcpt-To: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67112 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Ham, Yes, I did like the app, and had a few thoughts about it. K. -----Original Message----- From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net [mailto:hohlrauml6d@netscape.net] Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 2:28 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EEStor Patent(was: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline) -----Original Message----- From: Michel Jullian BTW Fred (and other distinguished vorts) I would be interested in your  opinion on the EEStor patent I discovered a few days ago  http://appft1.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html (copy-paste app number  0040071944, I haven't found how to link directly to the patent)  <><><><><><> http://tinyurl.com/fmwkv Keith should love the patent app. It has lots of chemistry. T ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 12:01:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HK1mbJ025981; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 12:01:49 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2HK1l6U025966; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 12:01:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 12:01:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <078a01c649fd$9cbc2f90$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: Subject: Re: EEStor Patent(was: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 21:01:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0611-2, 17/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67113 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi K, do you think it can work? (you seem to have a reply-to problem just like Fred BTW) Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Nagel" To: Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 8:55 PM Subject: RE: EEStor Patent(was: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline) > Hi Ham, > > Yes, I did like the app, and had a few thoughts about it. > > K. > > -----Original Message----- > From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net [mailto:hohlrauml6d@netscape.net] > Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 2:28 PM > To: vortex-l@eskimo.com > Subject: EEStor Patent(was: Simple comparison electric car versus > gasoline) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michel Jullian > > BTW Fred (and other distinguished vorts) I would be interested in your > opinion on the EEStor patent I discovered a few days ago > http://appft1.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html (copy-paste app > number > 0040071944, I haven't found how to link directly to the patent) > > <><><><><><> > > http://tinyurl.com/fmwkv > > Keith should love the patent app. It has lots of chemistry. > > T > ___________________________________________________ > Try the New Netscape Mail Today! > Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List > http://mail.netscape.com > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 12:28:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HKRgnW004470; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 12:27:43 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2HKRd51004437; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 12:27:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 12:27:39 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=gY1PYCXwx+dN/a1Xoaj485JeFvzUjAmbi0caxq2TqrEae9eIBLbfSGTq7Jj0DPuk; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006351720271240@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: O.T. Speaking of St. Patrick's Day Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 13:27:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9405dc1ee91b269e50634c51a52d5f51658350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.116 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67114 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Mike and his wife drove into town to celebrate the occasion. On the drive home, Mike was pulled over by a policeman who informed him that his wife "had fallen out of the car when he turned the corner a few miles back, but she was unhurt". "Thank the Lord!." Mike exclaimed, "I though I was going deaf". Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Mike and his wife drove into town to celebrate the occasion.
 
On the drive home, Mike was pulled over by a policeman who
informed him that his wife "had fallen out of the car when he
turned the corner a few miles back, but she was unhurt".
"Thank the Lord!." Mike exclaimed, "I though I was going deaf".
 
Fred
 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 12:28:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HKS7e0004720; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 12:28:07 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2HKS5A5004681; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 12:28:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 12:28:05 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:27:58 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C818186A4B732F-22EC-E489@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: EEStor Patent(was: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.136 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67115 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Keith Nagel Hi Ham, Yes, I did like the app, and had a few thoughts about it. <><><><><><><><> At 0.5 kWh per mile that's 104 miles for the 52 kWh, 336 lb battery assuming linear discharge and total depletion. Is the battery heavier when charged? Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 12:35:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HKZJP5007936; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 12:35:19 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2HKZIcP007919; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 12:35:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 12:35:18 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Horace Heffner Subject: re: Solar chimney design enhancement Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:35:08 -0900 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2HKZ84x007874 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67116 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The tops of solar towers, also known as solar chimneys, should be ringed with vertical layers of inverted airfoils. In windy conditions, nearly always present at high altitudes in many locations, these inverted airfoils about the periphery, with trailing edges to the inside, have the effect of reducing air pressure at the top of the chimney. They direct horizontal airflow upwards, thus reducing air pressure in the chimney. This enhances the Bernoulli effect already present for such chimneys. This pressure drop increases airflow and thus turbine output at the base of the chimney. Use of variable pitch airfoils permits controlled feathering and continual operation in high winds. The airfoils increase load on the structure and cost of the structure, but airfoil pitch control may be of use in preventing resonant vibration buildup in high wind conditions. The use of such airfoils increases the optimal chimney aspect ratio to less than that which is optimal without the airfoils. A typical (height to diameter) aspect ratio for solar towers is currently 6. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power states “The wind blows faster at higher altitudes because of the reduced influence of drag of the surface (sea or land) and the reduced viscosity of the air. The variation in velocity with altitude, called wind shear, is most dramatic near the surface. Typically, the variation follows the 1/7th power law, which predicts that wind speed rises proportionally to the seventh root of altitude. Doubling the altitude of a turbine, then, increases the expected wind speeds by 10% and the expected power by 34%.” “Wind farms or wind parks often have many turbines installed. Since each turbine extracts some of the energy of the wind, it is important to provide adequate spacing between turbines to avoid excess energy loss. Where land area is sufficient, turbines are spaced three to five rotor diameters apart perpendicular to the prevailing wind, and five to ten rotor diameters apart in the direction of the prevailing wind, to minimize efficiency loss. The "wind park effect" loss can be as low as 2% of the combined nameplate rating of the turbines.” A non-economic wind power class 2 location at an altitude of 50 m has average wind speed of 5.6 m/s and power density of 200 W/m^2. Applying the 1/7th power law, a 1 km tower in that location would experience an average wind speed of (1000m/50m)^(1/7) *(5.6 m/s) = 1.53*(5.6 m/s) = 8.54m/s. This turns a useless wind class 2 location, like the coast of Georgia, into a wind class 6 location, with 600 W/m^2 wind power density. Suppose the effective area of the tower with respect to wind power extraction is roughly the diameter of the tower squared. A 1 km high solar tower would thus have a useful wind cross section of (1000 m)^2. However, due to pressure drop losses in the flue, and other inefficiencies, only about 10 percent of that power can be extracted. The wind power available is then (1000 m)^2 * (600 W/m^2) * 0.10 = 60 MW, but this is 24 hours a day, not just through daylight, providing a 120 MW solar equivalent enhancement to a 200 MW solar tower. Use of wind power to enhance solar tower performance has the advantage that wind power tends to be available when solar is not. Coastal wind power is larger at dusk and dawn, while solar power peaks around noon. Wind power also tends to be larger during overcast or stormy conditions. Solar towers, being ducted with the power concentrated, can be throttled so as to continue running in high wind conditions. Obtaining the wind power requires use of aerodynamic structures at the tower top to reduce pressure in the chimney there. These can be static structures - horizontal airfoils, or vortex creating vertical slits. One problem with this idea is that solar tower performance data must necessarily already include any Bernoulli effect pressure drop enhancement due to wind. The incremental performance gain due to airfoil engineering may not be as much as expected. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 12:57:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HKux00017330; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 12:56:59 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2HKuqvA017293; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 12:56:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 12:56:52 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <07a301c64a05$511bdbf0$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <8C818186A4B732F-22EC-E489@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: EEStor Patent(was: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 21:56:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0611-2, 17/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: <4RG9oD.A.JOE.UKyGEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67117 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: 104 miles range isn't much! Are you sure about the 0.5 kWh per mile for an electric car? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 9:27 PM Subject: Re: EEStor Patent(was: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Keith Nagel > > Hi Ham, > > Yes, I did like the app, and had a few thoughts about it. > > > <><><><><><><><> > > At 0.5 kWh per mile that's 104 miles for the 52 kWh, 336 lb battery > assuming linear discharge and total depletion. > > Is the battery heavier when charged? > > Terry > ___________________________________________________ > Try the New Netscape Mail Today! > Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List > http://mail.netscape.com > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 19:20:12 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2H3K0GI028799; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:20:01 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2H3JxfT028781; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:19:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:19:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <441A2A91.7050806@comcast.net> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 21:18:41 -0600 From: Bob Fickle User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cold Fusion & Supernova 1987A] Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67086 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends3 Status: RO X-Status:

A 100 GeV charged particle (electron OR proton) has a radius of curvature in the galactic field (1 microgauss avgerage) of about 3 billion km (3 light-hours).  No way they're crossing galactic distances anytime soon- probably billions, rather than millions, of years...
Neutrinos, sure- including some energetic enough to see with Kamiokande.  But  'way too few to cause the effects you're alleging.

Frederick Sparber wrote:
About 24 hours after the flash of light  (and gamma rays) from Supernova 1987A  about 150,000 light-years
from earth  in the Magellanic Cloud were observed, ~ 1.0 eV rest mass neutrinos from it were picked up by
the Japanese Super-Kamiokande neutrino detector.
 
The enormous electron - proton  (Eo  0.51 MeV & 936 MeV rest mass) cosmic ray burst would follow later
according to the relativistic equation:
 
Gamma =  Ekin/Eo + 1 = 1/[1 - (v^2/c^2)]^1/2  (Ekin can be 100s of GeV)
 
The velocity  v of the electrons would be ~ 0.999 999 99c and that of the protons ~ 0.999 999c they
would  hit the earth after traversing the ~ 150 thousand light-year distance in months-years, causing momentary
neutron spallation-transmutation of atoms in the atmosphere and all materials (there were several computer problems
generated on the Concorde and strange power outages on the Grid noted in 1988) including those
used in Pons and Fleischman's Cold Fusion experiment about March 29th 1989:
 
 
As would be expected, follow-up bursts of strange activity in materials and science laboratories 
have been going on ever since.
 
Fred
 
 
 
 
From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 16 19:50:56 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2H3oiIq009728; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:50:44 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2H3ofSg009693; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:50:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:50:41 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <441A31CA.9090104@comcast.net> Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 21:49:30 -0600 From: Bob Fickle User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cold Fusion & Supernova 1987A] References: <441A2A91.7050806@comcast.net> <2B0AA629-501E-4920-825A-2EE42BA2DEC1@mtaonline.net> In-Reply-To: <2B0AA629-501E-4920-825A-2EE42BA2DEC1@mtaonline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <0iKWnD.A.UXC.RIjGEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67088 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends3 Status: O X-Status: You miss the point. They're not coming here- they're spiralling in circles about the size of the solar system, 150,000 light-years from here. They will eventually drift throughout the galaxy, but on a timescale thousands of times larger than a direct path would take. Horace Heffner wrote: > > On Mar 16, 2006, at 6:18 PM, Bob Fickle wrote: > >> >> >> A 100 GeV charged particle (electron OR proton) has a radius of >> curvature in the galactic field (1 microgauss avgerage) of about 3 >> billion km (3 light-hours). No way they're crossing galactic >> distances anytime soon- probably billions, rather than millions, of >> years.. > > > They only have to go 150,000 ly. Don't forget, the photons left > 150,000 years ago. The electrons are right behind. In other words, > > (1-0.99999999)*150000y = 0.0015 year = 0.5481 days > > Fred's making sense to me. What's a few extra hours for curvature? > > Horace Heffner > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 13:44:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HLimXI004785; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 13:44:48 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2HLilLv004775; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 13:44:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 13:44:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:44:43 -0500 Message-Id: <8C818232306B69F-1268-145D9@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <8C818186A4B732F-22EC-E489@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> <07a301c64a05$511bdbf0$3800a8c0@zothan> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <07a301c64a05$511bdbf0$3800a8c0@zothan> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: EEStor Patent(was: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.65 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2HLij0R004753 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67118 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Michel Jullian 104 miles range isn't much! Are you sure about the 0.5 kWh per mile for an electric car?  <><><><><><><><> Uh, the first message in this thread: http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/msg12220.html ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 13:47:06 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HLkrM7005548; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 13:46:53 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2HLkp6b005527; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 13:46:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 13:46:51 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: EEStor Patent(was: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:55:21 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <078a01c649fd$9cbc2f90$3800a8c0@zothan> X-Rcpt-To: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67119 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Wow, hey Fred, we have something in common. BTW, how's the house coming? You get any bites yet? K. -----Original Message----- From: Michel Jullian [mailto:mj@exbang.com] Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 3:02 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: EEStor Patent(was: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline) Hi K, do you think it can work? (you seem to have a reply-to problem just like Fred BTW) Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Nagel" To: Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 8:55 PM Subject: RE: EEStor Patent(was: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline) > Hi Ham, > > Yes, I did like the app, and had a few thoughts about it. > > K. > > -----Original Message----- > From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net [mailto:hohlrauml6d@netscape.net] > Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 2:28 PM > To: vortex-l@eskimo.com > Subject: EEStor Patent(was: Simple comparison electric car versus > gasoline) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michel Jullian > > BTW Fred (and other distinguished vorts) I would be interested in your > opinion on the EEStor patent I discovered a few days ago > http://appft1.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html (copy-paste app > number > 0040071944, I haven't found how to link directly to the patent) > > <><><><><><> > > http://tinyurl.com/fmwkv > > Keith should love the patent app. It has lots of chemistry. > > T > ___________________________________________________ > Try the New Netscape Mail Today! > Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List > http://mail.netscape.com > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 14:17:24 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HMHCDm016473; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 14:17:12 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2HMH8GN016440; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 14:17:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 14:17:08 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Horace Heffner Subject: Gorlov turbine looks like a winner Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:58:40 -0900 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67120 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/002383.html The Gorlov turbine looks like a winner. It has been around a while. Too bad it is so slow to progress. Maybe the new energy prices will change that. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 14:21:00 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HMKnso017995; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 14:20:49 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2HMKleg017975; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 14:20:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 14:20:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 17:15:36 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8182773A67E9A-1FB0-13F18@mblkn-m03.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <8C818186A4B732F-22EC-E489@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> <07a301c64a05$511bdbf0$3800a8c0@zothan> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <07a301c64a05$511bdbf0$3800a8c0@zothan> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: EEStor Patent Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.67 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2HMKkGH017961 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67121 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Michel Jullian 104 miles range isn't much! Are you sure about the 0.5 kWh per mile for an electric car?  <><><><><><><> While 0.5 kWh was quoted previously, paragraph [0073] of the patent app says: "It is estimeated that is (sic) takes 14 hp, 746 watts per hp, to power an electric vehicle running at 60 mph with the lights, radio, and airconditioning on. The energy-storage unit must supply 52,220 Wh or 10,444 W for 5 hours to sustain this speed and energy usage and during this period the EV will have traveled 300 miles." So, you have a right to question the figures. BTW, the stereo music alone from some cars here in Atlanta will limit the range to well below 100 miles. They sound like the Aurora rumble that Jones heard last week. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 14:21:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HMLbf0018340; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 14:21:38 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2HMLaRE018316; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 14:21:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 14:21:36 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <07bd01c64a11$267a5a50$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <8C818186A4B732F-22EC-E489@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> <07a301c64a05$511bdbf0$3800a8c0@zothan> <8C818232306B69F-1268-145D9@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: EEStor Patent(was: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline) Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 23:21:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0611-2, 17/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67122 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks, sorry I have caught the thread en route, I should have looked it up myself. Jed/Wikipedia said 0.3 to 0.5 kWh in fact, 52 kWh would be nearly acceptable for say 0.3 kWh/mile on the road (170miles=300km range), and 0.5 kWh in town, 104miles in town as you said. The thing is with this "battery" you can fill up at a filling station in a few mn, with a lithium battery you would be stranded half way of where you're going for hours, so this really would be an enabling technology for the all-electric car. Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 10:44 PM Subject: Re: EEStor Patent(was: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michel Jullian > > 104 miles range isn't much! Are you sure about the 0.5 kWh per mile for an > electric car? > > <><><><><><><><> > > Uh, the first message in this thread: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/msg12220.html > ___________________________________________________ > Try the New Netscape Mail Today! > Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List > http://mail.netscape.com > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 14:40:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HMe4qs025182; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 14:40:11 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2HMV1Lx022010; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 14:31:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 14:31:01 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <07c401c64a12$6f4f1bc0$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <8C818186A4B732F-22EC-E489@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> <07a301c64a05$511bdbf0$3800a8c0@zothan> <8C8182773A67E9A-1FB0-13F18@mblkn-m03.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: EEStor Patent Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 23:30:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0611-2, 17/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67123 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > BTW, the stereo music alone from some cars here in Atlanta will limit the > range to well below 100 miles. LOL :) Yes there is a problem with the figures, it may be that EEStor talks about european cars, and Jed/Wikipedia about US cars ;) Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 11:15 PM Subject: Re: EEStor Patent > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michel Jullian > > 104 miles range isn't much! Are you sure about the 0.5 kWh per mile for an > electric car? > <><><><><><><> > > While 0.5 kWh was quoted previously, paragraph [0073] of the patent app > says: > > "It is estimeated that is (sic) takes 14 hp, 746 watts per hp, to power an > electric vehicle running at 60 mph with the lights, radio, and > airconditioning on. The energy-storage unit must supply 52,220 Wh or > 10,444 W for 5 hours to sustain this speed and energy usage and during > this period the EV will have traveled 300 miles." > > So, you have a right to question the figures. > > BTW, the stereo music alone from some cars here in Atlanta will limit the > range to well below 100 miles. They sound like the Aurora rumble that > Jones heard last week. > > Terry > ___________________________________________________ > Try the New Netscape Mail Today! > Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List > http://mail.netscape.com > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 15:01:56 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2HN1gYk001266; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:01:42 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2HN1fRP001224; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:01:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:01:41 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Oops! No Mars Water? Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:01:34 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta02ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Fri, 17 Mar 2006 23:01:34 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2HN1YMA001176 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67124 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, On Sun, 15 Oct 2000 I wrote:- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- In reply to Mitchell Jones's message of Sat, 14 Oct 2000 17:18:54 -0500: [snip] >***{How can pressure rise from 8 to 5200 mbar after all of the CO2 in the >atmosphere--i.e., 90% by weight--has precipitated out? I repeat: this dog >won't hunt, Horace. --MJ}*** > >, due to the CO2 >>snow pack, then it can liquify when it warms up. >> >>Regards, >> >>Horace Heffner How about a river of very fine dust? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now, 5 years later we see:- http://www.physorg.com/news11858.html From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 16:42:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2I0fsDh006783; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:41:55 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2I0frK9006765; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:41:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:41:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 19:41:45 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8183BDE376EBE-1FB0-142EE@mblkn-m03.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Oops! No Mars Water? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.67 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67126 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Robin van Spaandonk Now, 5 years later we see:- http://www.physorg.com/news11858.html <><><><><><> At the same time we also see: http://www.newscientistspace.com/article/dn8857-big-new-reservoir-of-wate r-ice-suspected-under-mars.html http://tinyurl.com/heqdz "The antenna was deployed in June 2005 and quickly detected what appeared to be water ice stretching 1.8 kilometres below the surface of the northern polar ice cap. Now, it has found what looks like water ice extending as deep as 3.5 kilometres below the southern polar cap." What the bleep do we know? Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 17:29:34 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2I1TNSC023878; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 17:29:24 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2I1TMgO023860; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 17:29:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 17:29:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060317172911.02944598@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 17:31:48 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: Re: Spoof articles about cold fusion In-Reply-To: <006d01c646d7$df509130$6401a8c0@NuDell> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060313141317.035f0930@mindspring.com> <006d01c646d7$df509130$6401a8c0@NuDell> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67127 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Truth be told.....Ferrar (is his last name) sent it to me somewhat hacked up. I enjoyed his delightful creativity so much that I edited his "draft" it into standard AP-style news copy and sent it back to him. Gotta hand it to this guy..he really has a great sense of humor and also has his ear to the ground. s At 11:53 AM 3/13/2006, you wrote: >The writer, Ferrer, looks vaguely similar to a local politician: > >http://www.thespoof.com/profile.cfm?uID=3258 > > >Hmm ... and if memory serves, and not being a name dropper, didn't SK post >something rather similar to this with an Olympics twist ? > >... perhaps he just forgot the attribution... or is being set-up by >Putterman's grad student brigade. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 18:29:04 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2I2Sllb014050; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:28:48 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2I2Sjm1014021; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:28:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:28:45 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 13:28:44 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <1sqm125shklot867plmpjc6t44jfs5vsat@4ax.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316115414.035d3968@mindspring.com> <001a01c64920$cf8d4180$0c2d010a@arghou.argcorp.argworldwide.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316142054.036dfc80@mindspring.com> <5491B53A-B5C2-4904-A604-6D7C72B82D4E@mtaonline.net> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316160956.0356f028@mindspring.com> <035501c64947$529ec3c0$3800a8c0@zothan> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316173452.036a8340@mindspring.com> <060701c6494d$38d7e420$3800a8c0@zothan> <7.0.1.0.2.20060316181420.036b04f0@mindspring.com> In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060316181420.036b04f0@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta05ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sat, 18 Mar 2006 02:28:43 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2I2Shj8013988 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67128 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Thu, 16 Mar 2006 18:45:30 -0500: Hi, [snip] >States with significant wind resources are thousands of miles away, >and you cannot transmit electricity that far. Georgia has no >significant renewable energy resources. > >It is a shame you cannot transmit electricity 2000 miles because if >you could, we could establish a massive solar thermal plant in a 100 >square mile area of the Southwest desert, and generate all the >electricity we now consume. Or we could do the same trick with wind >farms in North Dakota. Alas, it is impossible. Someday high >temperature superconducting wires or hydrogen pipelines may allow >electricity to be transmitted across the continent. [snip] Georgia also has it's own renewable resource just off the coast, in the form of the Gulf Stream. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 19:26:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2I3Qh0j007324; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 19:26:43 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2I3QeES007299; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 19:26:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 19:26:40 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=ix.netcom.com; b=MVU0nB8ApR5UCXIxAmNEfR26GAQiyqQnrj7K6IIHJ3rQcXv259tvvo0TWeTcH7wS; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063517192650830@ix.netcom.com> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: aki@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.1.47.0 (Windows) From: "" To: "vortex-l" Subject: FW: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday March 17, 2006 Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 19:26:50 -00 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: c4cc7f5f697e8746f66dc3a06d5924d80df21f7585f2167e3396071a2ec7800ba7ce0e8f8d31aa3f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 216.175.87.51 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67129 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: forward from aki@ix.netcom.com (Akira Kawasaki) > [Original Message] >From: What's New > To: Date: 3/18/2006 12:58:12 AM Subject: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday March 17, 2006 WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 17 Mar 06 Washington, DC 1. THE BIGGER PRIZE: IS "THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE" INFECTIOUS? Sir John Templeton had stipulated in 1972 that his prize for "Progress Toward Research or Discoveries about Spiritual Realities," now at $1.4 million, was to always be bigger than the Nobel. British cosmologist John Barrow has been awarded the Templeton Prize for 2006. Barrow is best known for "The Anthropic Cosmological Principle," written with Frank Tipler in 1986. The "anthropic principle" states that the laws of nature were fine-tuned by the Great Designer to allow the existence of beings so intelligent that they could discover the anthropic principle. This is so incredibly deep that something happens to scientists who dwell on it too long. In Tipler's case, it led him in 1996 to write, "The Physics of Immortality," in which he derives, "the existence of God and the resurrection of the dead" http://bobpark.physics.umd.edu/WN94/wn100794.html . In Barrow's case it led to the 2006 Templeton Prize. 2. BELOW THE GROUND STATE: BEFORE SPRING THERE IS MARCH MADNESS. On March 23, 1989 in Salt Lake City, the University of Utah held a press conference to announce the discovery of cold fusion, but the story had already been leaked to the world's most influential financial dailies, the Wall Street Journal and the Financial Times. Both papers continued to print unfailingly optimistic reports for weeks. Among those lured into the swamp was Randell Mills, a 1986 graduate of Harvard Medical School. Two years later Mills held a press conference of his own to announce that it wasn't fusion. It was better! Hydrogen atoms can shrink into "hydrinos," releasing energy. With the 17th anniversary of cold fusion approaching, both papers are now running credulous stories about Mills and his company, BlackLight Power. BLP, which has never produced anything, is rumored to be preparing an IPO. 3. PERPETUAL FRAUD: NOTORIOUS HUCKSTER IS UP TO HIS OLD TRICKS. Dennis Lee doesn't sell perpetual motion machines. He sells dealerships for perpetual motion machines. He's done hard time, but he wears it as a badge of honor, proof that the establishment is trying to suppress his inventions. He has never delivered a free-energy machines to a dealer, but he still sells dealerships. Can he be stopped? In 2002 the state of Washington, with the help of an obscure professor of physics, barred Lee's company, Better World Technologies, from doing business. Six months later, with the help of the same physics professor, it was Maine. It was slow, but at that rate he'd be out of business by my 100th birthday. It was not to be. Last week, Eric Krieg, a long-time nemesis of Lee and the head of an active group of skeptics in Philadelphia, pointed out that Lee is on tour again. One stop on the tour is Seattle. Seattle, WA? How could this be? It's not Better World Technologies that doing the tour, it's Better World Alternatives, a separate marketing company set up by Lee. In the age of the internet, education is the only weapon against scams. THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND. Opinions are the author's and not necessarily shared by the University of Maryland, but they should be. --- Archives of What's New can be found at http://www.bobpark.org What's New is moving to a different listserver and our subscription process has changed. To change your subscription status please visit this link: http://listserv.umd.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=bobparks-whatsnew&A=1 From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 20:56:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2I4uLt5007554; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 20:56:21 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2I4uKEr007543; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 20:56:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 20:56:20 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A meteorogolist speaks on climate change Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:56:17 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <8h4n12pkqi1bn8s7dab2s9korktfvi22ju@4ax.com> References: <001001c648a4$fb257410$2c027841@xptower> In-Reply-To: <001001c648a4$fb257410$2c027841@xptower> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta01ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sat, 18 Mar 2006 04:56:16 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2I4uHhg007522 Resent-Message-ID: <_XxX4B.A.z1B.zL5GEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67130 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to RC Macaulay's message of Wed, 15 Mar 2006 20:54:43 -0600: Hi, [snip] > People being creatures of habit, will choose the least painful method.. which is .. do nothing. > >Richard They will however choose something if it is perceived to result in an immediate benefit. I.e. if you give them a car that runs on water, they'll buy it. It's up to us (ao) to ensure that it also benefits the environment. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 16:05:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2I05Q6g026342; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:05:26 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2I05PS4026328; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:05:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:05:25 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <441B4E7E.4050802@comcast.net> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:04:14 -0600 From: Bob Fickle User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cold Fusion & Supernova 1987A] References: <441A2A91.7050806@comcast.net> <2B0AA629-501E-4920-825A-2EE42BA2DEC1@mtaonline.net> <441A31CA.9090104@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67125 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends3 Status: RO X-Status: Yes, they will follow the field lines; but there's not much large-scale order to the galactic magnetic field, so it's more a diffusion process, once the particles leave the supernova's immediate area. There's no significant recombination- not enough electrons moving close to the same speed, and even those that did combine would be broken apart again by collisions with atoms in the interstellar medium. Last I heard, cosmic rays were believed to have an average age in the galaxy of a few million years- based on ratios of Li/Be/B isotopes produced in transit. Since the LMC is actually outside our galaxy, I think it would be safe to add a few million more. Horace Heffner wrote: > > On Mar 16, 2006, at 6:49 PM, Bob Fickle wrote: > >> You miss the point. > > > Right you are - I missed that point. > >> They're not coming here- they're spiralling in circles about the >> size of the solar system, 150,000 light-years from here. They will >> eventually drift throughout the galaxy, but on a timescale thousands >> of times larger than a direct path would take. > > > They should in part tend to follow the field lines. However, the > initial EMP gradient should serve to reunite a significant amount of > the nuclei with their electrons. The neutral H atoms should still > carry roughly the kinetic energy of the protons, and not be > deflected. This gives: > > (1-0.999999)*150000y = 0.0015 year = 55 days > > for the neutrals to start showing up. > > Horace Heffner > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 21:30:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2I5UVCq018266; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 21:30:31 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2I5UTtl018246; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 21:30:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 21:30:29 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Polar CO2 Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 16:30:19 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <2FCD8D8F-3291-44FF-8DDC-81E09E0E4820@mtaonline.net> In-Reply-To: <2FCD8D8F-3291-44FF-8DDC-81E09E0E4820@mtaonline.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta03ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sat, 18 Mar 2006 05:30:19 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2I5UPOq018172 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67131 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Horace Heffner's message of Wed, 15 Mar 2006 22:03:49 -0900: Hi, [snip] >Polar carbon dioxide increasing at surprising rate. See: > >http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/story/0,,1729255,00.html > >"In 1990 this key cause of global warming was rising at a rate of 1 >part per million (ppm). Recently, that rate reached 2 ppm per year. >Now, scientists at the Mount Zeppelin monitoring station have >discovered it is rising at between 2.5 and 3 ppm." > >Horace Heffner This is actually catastrophic. An exponential model doesn't rise steeply enough to cover the change in the rate of increase (i.e. the acceleration). Or more accurately if one uses the formula:- N = N0 x exp(t/T) then the first derivative is (N0/T) x exp(t/T) and the second derivative is (N0/T^2) x exp(t/T). One can determine T either by dividing the base formula by the first derivative, or by dividing the first derivative by the second derivative. If the current level is 380 ppm, and the current growth rate (i.e. the first derivative) is 2.7 ppm/yr, and this was 1 ppm/yr in 1990, then the second derivative ~= (2.7-1)/(2006-1990) = 0.106 ppm/yr^2. (Since this is a linear calculation based on a 16 year time difference, the actual current value is likely to be higher). The first method of determining T yields T = 380 ppm /(2.7 ppm/yr) = 140 y. The second method yields T = (2.7 ppm/yr)/ (0.106 ppm/yr^2) = 25.5 yr. Basically this means that the curve has recently been getting steeper more rapidly than the first method would indicate (the first method would yield a second derivative of 380/140^2 = 0.02 ppm/yr^2). The second method yields an acceleration that is 5 times larger. The implication is that even the second method yields a T that is too large. Yet even if we assume this second T (25.5 yr) is correct, it means we would hit the 500 ppm "tipping point" in 7 years time. We should therefore expect to hit it sooner. Horace please correct any egregious errors. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 22:02:21 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2I6282S028275; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:02:08 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2I627uA028255; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:02:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:02:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electronium (*e-) Enrichment in Biological Transmutations? Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 17:02:03 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3q7n121e4s5qtuchv4nnkv7min0rn2gs12@4ax.com> References: <410-2200633158511825@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <410-2200633158511825@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta02ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sat, 18 Mar 2006 06:02:02 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2I624Qn028218 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67132 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Frederick Sparber's message of Wed, 15 Mar 2006 01:05:11 -0700: Hi, [snip] >http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-bib_query?bibcode=2002ApPhL..81.1098K&db_key=PHY&data_type=HTML&format= >Abstract~ "We have investigated effects of electric fields on the yield of secondary electron emission (SEE) from the primary electron bombardment on magnesium oxide (MgO) covering vertically grown multiwalled carbon nanotubes (MWCNTs). We observe that the yield of SEE increases up to at least 22 000 at a special condition. The strong local field generated by the sharp tip of vertically grown MWCNTs accelerates secondary electrons generated by primary electrons. This eventually gives rise to so called Townsend avalanche effect, generating huge number of secondary electrons in a MgO film. Emission mechanism for such a high SEE will be further discussed with energy spectrum analysis." Carbon nano tubes may make a good platform for launching EVs. An EV accelerated by a chemical differential voltage of up to 3 volts could accelerate a deuteron up to an energy of 3 * 2 * 1836 = 11 keV. Enough to bring about a fusion reaction. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 22:15:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2I6FHxX031662; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:15:17 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2I6FF7n031630; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:15:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:15:15 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: References: <2FCD8D8F-3291-44FF-8DDC-81E09E0E4820@mtaonline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <4BC66842-A6C5-497D-8DBA-B6DAB5EDD0D8@mtaonline.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Polar CO2 Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 21:15:08 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67133 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mar 17, 2006, at 8:30 PM, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > In reply to Horace Heffner's message of Wed, 15 Mar 2006 22:03:49 > -0900: > Hi, > [snip] >> Polar carbon dioxide increasing at surprising rate. See: >> >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/story/0,,1729255,00.html >> >> "In 1990 this key cause of global warming was rising at a rate of 1 >> part per million (ppm). Recently, that rate reached 2 ppm per year. >> Now, scientists at the Mount Zeppelin monitoring station have >> discovered it is rising at between 2.5 and 3 ppm." >> >> Horace Heffner > > This is actually catastrophic. If it is indeed true then I could not agree more that it is catastrophic. I think independent confirmation is badly needed, not just at Mount Zeppelin but all over the polar regions. Too bad NASA has been canceling earth science missions. > > An exponential model doesn't rise steeply enough to cover the > change in the rate of increase (i.e. the acceleration). If the data is correct then I think that implies that a stepwise increase is occurring. An exponential model does not apply to a stepwise increase. Assuming the numbers are correct, that means some threshold has been crossed and there is an entirely new source of CO2. Maybe methane oxidizes much faster than the rate implied by a 12 year half-life. Maybe the ocean warming is somehow releasing CO2 - or failing to sequester it due to massive krill death, etc. The numbers are very hard to believe, but making the effort at verification is obviously of great importance. I see the article says: "The increase is also seen at other stations, but our Zeppelin data show the strongest increase." This leaves the possibility it is a fairly localized phenomenon, though if a stepwise regime change can occur there it possibly can occur everywhere in the arctic. > Horace please correct any egregious errors. Not my job mann! I just work here. That's a management function. 8^) Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 22:16:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2I6GPsh031973; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:16:26 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2I6GN6r031950; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:16:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:16:23 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Efimov state - key to multi-nuclear LENR? Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 17:16:21 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <2.2.32.20060316132113.009f85a0@pop.freeserve.net> <002601c64900$3410c620$72027841@xptower> <052401c6491c$76b6ef10$6401a8c0@NuDell> In-Reply-To: <052401c6491c$76b6ef10$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta02ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sat, 18 Mar 2006 06:16:20 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2I6GLp3031926 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67134 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Jones Beene's message of Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:10:01 -0800: Hi, [snip] >"This ring means that three objects are entangled. If you pick up >any one of them, the other two >will follow. However, if you cut one of them off, the other two >will fall apart," Chin said. > >"There is something magic about this number of three." [snip] There's nothing magic about it, it's a direct consequence of living in a 3 dimensional universe. Point objects have 3 degrees of freedom. The rings demonstrate that beautifully. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 22:34:08 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2I6XvE0005791; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:33:57 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2I6XuL6005768; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:33:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:33:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Polar CO2 Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 17:33:53 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <2FCD8D8F-3291-44FF-8DDC-81E09E0E4820@mtaonline.net> <4BC66842-A6C5-497D-8DBA-B6DAB5EDD0D8@mtaonline.net> In-Reply-To: <4BC66842-A6C5-497D-8DBA-B6DAB5EDD0D8@mtaonline.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta02ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sat, 18 Mar 2006 06:33:52 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2I6Xq2i005722 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67135 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Horace Heffner's message of Fri, 17 Mar 2006 21:15:08 -0900: Hi, [snip] >If it is indeed true then I could not agree more that it is >catastrophic. I think independent confirmation is badly needed, not >just at Mount Zeppelin but all over the polar regions. Too bad NASA >has been canceling earth science missions. > Indeed. > >> >> An exponential model doesn't rise steeply enough to cover the >> change in the rate of increase (i.e. the acceleration). > > >If the data is correct then I think that implies that a stepwise >increase is occurring. An exponential model does not apply to a >stepwise increase. Assuming the numbers are correct, that means some >threshold has been crossed and there is an entirely new source of >CO2. I agree. >Maybe methane oxidizes much faster than the rate implied by a >12 year half-life. Maybe the ocean warming is somehow releasing CO2 CO2 dissolves better in cold water than in warm water. >- or failing to sequester it due to massive krill death, etc. The >numbers are very hard to believe, but making the effort at >verification is obviously of great importance. Another possibility is that a slow down in the "conveyor" may be leaving more CO2 in the atmosphere (because CO2 would saturate surface water, then not be removed), so that our contribution accumulates faster. (BTW krill are crustaceans, so they should be creating CO2, not consuming it). [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 17 22:46:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2I6kSZ7011460; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:46:29 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2I6kRub011442; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:46:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:46:27 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: References: <2FCD8D8F-3291-44FF-8DDC-81E09E0E4820@mtaonline.net> <4BC66842-A6C5-497D-8DBA-B6DAB5EDD0D8@mtaonline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Polar CO2 Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 21:46:22 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67136 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mar 17, 2006, at 9:33 PM, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > (BTW krill are crustaceans, so they should be creating CO2, not > consuming it). Check out: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/02/060206230630.htm I mentioned krill because I think I read about an unexplained krill population drop somewhere. If the krill's food, phytoplankton, are dying off, then we are in deep kim chee. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 18 01:28:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2I9S0lT030295; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 01:28:01 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2I9RxvS030272; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 01:27:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 01:27:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060318092755530.81771C40008C@mwinf3216.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060318092757.009a97f0@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 09:27:57 +0000 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Graphene Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67137 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Since there has been a lot of talk about carbon nano-tubes on Vortex-L, I thought this was rather interesting, http://gtresearchnews.gatech.edu/newsrelease/graphene.htm ======================================================== “Nanotubes are simply graphene that has been rolled into a cylindrical shape,” de Heer explained. “Using narrow ribbons of graphene, we can get all the properties of nanotubes because those properties are due to the graphene and the confinement of the electrons, not the nanotube structures." ======================================================== Normal ice has a structure a bit like crimped graphite and is a proton conductor, I wonder if something similar could be achieved with ice. Grimer From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 18 03:56:12 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IBu2WD009962; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 03:56:02 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2IBtwdW009918; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 03:55:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 03:55:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=OdI4OpkiWNnKmQXe4bTzl+KNxdjQQyPGHaCAF+WevJh+bCLJdRyxpEI5XPHltHYc; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063618115548863@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Circular Particles as Parallel Resonant "Tank Circuits" Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 04:55:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940703be9566a7f101f9e83ba0e7983eb6f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.127 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67138 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Energy E for electrons or positrons = 8.16e-14 joules Lambda = hc/E = 2.436e-12 meters for electron & positron circles eo = 8.85e-12 farad/meter uo = 4(pi)e-7 henry/meter C = eo*lambda = 2.155e-23 farad L = uo*lambda = 3.06e-18 henry Resonant frequency f = 1/(LC)^1/2 = 1.23e20 Hz Cycle period t = 1/f = 8.13e-21 seconds Zo = (L/C)^1/2 = 377 ohms I = +/- q*f = 19.7 amperes Potential V = (E/0.5C)^1/2 = 8.7e4 volts Displacement current *I = C* dV/dt or V/Zo = 8.7e^4/Zo = 230.8 amperes *I/I = 230.8/19.7 = 11.7 = (137.03)^1/2 ELI the ICE man at work here? If due to the Zo the current leads the voltage by 89.5818 degrees instead of 90 degrees alpha (0.00729729) = sin of 90 - 0.4181 = 89.5818 degrees. Back to trig school. :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Energy E for electrons or  positrons = 8.16e-14 joules
Lambda = hc/E = 2.436e-12 meters for electron & positron circles
eo = 8.85e-12 farad/meter
uo = 4(pi)e-7 henry/meter
C = eo*lambda = 2.155e-23 farad
L = uo*lambda = 3.06e-18 henry
Resonant frequency f = 1/(LC)^1/2 = 1.23e20 Hz
Cycle period t = 1/f = 8.13e-21 seconds
Zo = (L/C)^1/2 = 377 ohms
I = +/- q*f = 19.7 amperes
Potential V = (E/0.5C)^1/2 = 8.7e4 volts
Displacement current *I = C* dV/dt or V/Zo = 8.7e^4/Zo = 230.8 amperes
*I/I = 230.8/19.7 = 11.7 = (137.03)^1/2
 
ELI the ICE man at work here?
 
If due to the Zo the current leads the voltage by 89.5818 degrees instead of 90 degrees
alpha (0.00729729) = sin of 90 - 0.4181 = 89.5818 degrees.
 
Back to trig school.  :-)
 
Fred
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 18 04:22:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2ICMk3w019266; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 04:22:47 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2ICMjsW019245; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 04:22:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 04:22:45 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=OM7M430NjHaE9KTgBKX3dkUy3DxgpFaBxbmI1IVPw4AUNvMJH18mkpjbMZ0BlE46; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063618122231387@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Circular Particles as Parallel Resonant "Tank Circuits" Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 05:22:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94068ee24694af6219500f113d056955773350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.41 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67139 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Great Java Applet Simulator. http://www.walter-fendt.de/ph11e/osccirc.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 3/18/2006 4:56:27 AM Subject: Re: Circular Particles as Parallel Resonant "Tank Circuits" Energy E for electrons or positrons = 8.16e-14 joules Lambda = hc/E = 2.436e-12 meters for electron & positron circles eo = 8.85e-12 farad/meter uo = 4(pi)e-7 henry/meter C = eo*lambda = 2.155e-23 farad L = uo*lambda = 3.06e-18 henry Resonant frequency f = 1/(LC)^1/2 = 1.23e20 Hz Cycle period t = 1/f = 8.13e-21 seconds Zo = (L/C)^1/2 = 377 ohms I = +/- q*f = 19.7 amperes Potential V = (E/0.5C)^1/2 = 8.7e4 volts Displacement current *I = C* dV/dt or V/Zo = 8.7e^4/Zo = 230.8 amperes *I/I = 230.8/19.7 = 11.7 = (137.03)^1/2 ELI the ICE man at work here? If due to the Zo the current leads the voltage by 89.5818 degrees instead of 90 degrees alpha (0.00729729) = sin of 90 - 0.4181 = 89.5818 degrees. Back to trig school. :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Great Java Applet Simulator.
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 3/18/2006 4:56:27 AM
Subject: Re: Circular Particles as Parallel Resonant "Tank Circuits"

Energy E for electrons or  positrons = 8.16e-14 joules
Lambda = hc/E = 2.436e-12 meters for electron & positron circles
eo = 8.85e-12 farad/meter
uo = 4(pi)e-7 henry/meter
C = eo*lambda = 2.155e-23 farad
L = uo*lambda = 3.06e-18 henry
Resonant frequency f = 1/(LC)^1/2 = 1.23e20 Hz
Cycle period t = 1/f = 8.13e-21 seconds
Zo = (L/C)^1/2 = 377 ohms
I = +/- q*f = 19.7 amperes
Potential V = (E/0.5C)^1/2 = 8.7e4 volts
Displacement current *I = C* dV/dt or V/Zo = 8.7e^4/Zo = 230.8 amperes
*I/I = 230.8/19.7 = 11.7 = (137.03)^1/2
 
ELI the ICE man at work here?
 
If due to the Zo the current leads the voltage by 89.5818 degrees instead of 90 degrees
alpha (0.00729729) = sin of 90 - 0.4181 = 89.5818 degrees.
 
Back to trig school.  :-)
 
Fred
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 18 05:38:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IDcVU2010562; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 05:38:31 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2IDcTnc010545; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 05:38:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 05:38:29 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2006-03-10) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.1 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Message-ID: <001a01c64a91$3784c800$2a027841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: References: <2.2.32.20060316132113.009f85a0@pop.freeserve.net> <002601c64900$3410c620$72027841@xptower> <052401c6491c$76b6ef10$6401a8c0@NuDell> Subject: Re: Efimov state - key to multi-nuclear LENR? Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 07:38:17 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67140 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Howdy Robin, Simple explanations of physics are never as simple as viewed. The rings, like the favorite magic trick using loops, may actually each be shaped in the figure 8 .. plus in "mobus" form. Cutting one would provide the optical illusion of separating the remaining two, or even trickier, the mobus strip type rings are not connected but " run" in a track. When watching a " magic show", one must consider what is seen doesn't necessarily mean you are seeing what is. Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin van Spaandonk" To: Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 12:16 AM Subject: Re: Efimov state - key to multi-nuclear LENR? > In reply to Jones Beene's message of Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:10:01 > -0800: > Hi, > [snip] >>"This ring means that three objects are entangled. If you pick up >>any one of them, the other two >>will follow. However, if you cut one of them off, the other two >>will fall apart," Chin said. >> >>"There is something magic about this number of three." > [snip] > There's nothing magic about it, it's a direct consequence of > living in a 3 dimensional universe. Point objects have 3 degrees > of freedom. > > The rings demonstrate that beautifully. > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ > > Competition provides the motivation, > Cooperation provides the means. > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 18 05:40:20 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IDe7l6011158; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 05:40:08 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2IDe6N1011139; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 05:40:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 05:40:06 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=UOX0soWomsU6LqkWzV0jDaAuUOjC0vNlgKDP213NCys9dU2cOW2yEtUoRI+j9BL1; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063618133944814@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Charge and Energy Puzzle Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 06:39:44 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9408676848780c75791883c56ef61d38a47350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.171 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67141 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Modifying this Circuit: http://www.walter-fendt.de/ph11e/osccirc.htm If one used duplicate circuits and a double-pole-double-throw switch each hooked to a battery of opposite polarity would one circuit have an opposite phase (but not negative energy) wrt the other? Would you see "charge" between them? If you connected them together would they annihilate one another? Or do you connect them sequentially so that the Capacitor or Inductor fields are maximum at opposite times? Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Modifying this Circuit:
 
 
If one used duplicate circuits and a double-pole-double-throw switch
each hooked to a battery of opposite polarity would one circuit have an opposite
phase (but not negative energy) wrt the other?
 
Would you see "charge" between them?
 
If you connected them together would they annihilate one another? 
 
Or do you connect them sequentially so that the Capacitor or Inductor
fields are maximum at opposite times?
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 18 06:55:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IEtTsW005157; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 06:55:30 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2IEtRb1005130; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 06:55:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 06:55:27 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 09:55:20 -0500 From: fznidarsic@aol.com Message-Id: <8C818B31C7BA057-1734-1616A@FWM-M26.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Circular Particles as Parallel Resonant "Tank Circuits" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MailBlocks_8C818B31C7BA057_1734_15D7D_FWM-M26.sysops.aol.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.193.228 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67142 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----------MailBlocks_8C818B31C7BA057_1734_15D7D_FWM-M26.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" If due to the Zo the current leads the voltage by 89.5818 degrees instead of 90 degrees alpha (0.00729729) = sin of 90 - 0.4181 = 89.5818 degrees. Back to trig school. :-) Fred Thank you Fred. I have a paper published on the phase angle and the Special Relativity. The paper goes beyond the electric and magnetic fields in that it incorporates the potential and kinetic components of any field. Your concept of phase angle goes a long way towards the unification of quantum physics and Special Relativity. http://www.wbabin.net/pprmth.htm Enjoy Frank Znidarsic ----------MailBlocks_8C818B31C7BA057_1734_15D7D_FWM-M26.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
If due to the Zo the current leads the voltage by 89.5818 degrees instead of 90 degrees
alpha (0.00729729) = sin of 90 - 0.4181 = 89.5818 degrees.
 
Back to trig school.  :-)
 
Fred
 
 
Thank you Fred.  I have a paper published on the phase angle and the Special Relativity.  The paper goes beyond the electric and magnetic fields in that it incorporates the potential and kinetic components of any field.  Your concept of phase angle goes a long way towards the unification of quantum physics and Special Relativity.
 
 
 
 
Enjoy
 
 
Frank Znidarsic
----------MailBlocks_8C818B31C7BA057_1734_15D7D_FWM-M26.sysops.aol.com-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 18 07:19:08 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IFItd1013284; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 07:18:55 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2IFIqLv013258; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 07:18:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 07:18:52 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:18:46 -0500 From: fznidarsic@aol.com Message-Id: <8C818B66298E96F-1734-161FB@FWM-M26.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Circular Particles as Parallel Resonant "Tank Circuits" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MailBlocks_8C818B66298E96F_1734_15E0C_FWM-M26.sysops.aol.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.193.228 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67143 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----------MailBlocks_8C818B66298E96F_1734_15E0C_FWM-M26.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resonant frequency f = 1/(LC)^1/2 = 1.23e20 Hz . Back to trig school. :-) Fred Thank you Fred. In your formula what is L? It is not known. You have two unknowns L and C. You formula is unsolvable. A better way to represent resonant frequency is. Resonant frequency f = K/(M)^1/2 = 1.23e20 Hz We now know the mass M of elementary particle. The only unknown is K. We can solve for it. What does the elastic constant K physically represent? Knowing that K is conceptually equivalent to 1/C and that elementary particles have the highest frequency possible. C represents a mimimum of stray capacitance or a mechanical elastic limit. I have traveled down this road and got a lot of answers. http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chaptera.html I have tried to get a paper published on the subject but, for the time being, I have given up dealing with journal editors. Frank Znidarsic . ----------MailBlocks_8C818B66298E96F_1734_15E0C_FWM-M26.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Resonant frequency f = 1/(LC)^1/2 = 1.23e20 Hz
.
 
Back to trig school.  :-)
 
Fred
 
 
<snip>
 
Thank you Fred.  In your formula what is L?   It is not known.   You have two unknowns L and C.  You formula is unsolvable.  A better way to represent resonant frequency is.
 
Resonant frequency f = K/(M)^1/2 = 1.23e20 Hz
 
We now know the  mass M of elementary particle.  The only unknown is K.  We can solve for it.  What does the elastic constant K physically represent?  Knowing that K is conceptually equivalent to 1/C  and that elementary particles have the highest frequency possible.  C represents a mimimum of stray capacitance or a mechanical elastic limit.  I have traveled down this road and got a lot of answers.
 
 
I have tried to get a paper published on the subject but, for the time being, I have given up dealing with journal editors.
 
 
Frank Znidarsic
 
.
 
----------MailBlocks_8C818B66298E96F_1734_15E0C_FWM-M26.sysops.aol.com-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 18 07:25:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IFOxt9016464; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 07:24:59 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2IFOsqt016410; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 07:24:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 07:24:54 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <441B4E7E.4050802@comcast.net> References: <441A2A91.7050806@comcast.net> <2B0AA629-501E-4920-825A-2EE42BA2DEC1@mtaonline.net> <441A31CA.9090104@comcast.net> <441B4E7E.4050802@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <161039C0-9814-4C47-B0C3-6350710FD489@mtaonline.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Cold Fusion & Supernova 1987A] Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 06:24:42 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67144 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mar 17, 2006, at 3:04 PM, Bob Fickle wrote: > Yes, they will follow the field lines; but there's not much large- > scale order to the galactic magnetic field, so it's more a > diffusion process, once the particles leave the supernova's > immediate area. There's no significant recombination- not enough > electrons moving close to the same speed, and even those that did > combine would be broken apart again by collisions with atoms in the > interstellar medium. With an interstellar density of 1 atom/cm^2 this does indeed appear to be true. The pulse will remain in plasma form. However, this then also negates the effect of any ambient magnetic field. As the fast electrons fly away from the nuclei a large E gradient develops and the electrons and nuclei eventually rejoin. Their relative motion is thermalized, but the net outward kinetic energy remains. Further, the initial ambient magnetic field is cancelled by the plasma action. As long as the plasma density is much larger than the interstellar matter density the plasma pulse should travel fairly unimpeded. I haven't done the calculation, but I would expect this distance to be a lot less than 150,000 ly. Suppose we view the explosion from the north pole direction of the ambient magnetic field. The initial ambient magnetic field lines point toward us. The plasma that comes toward us is unimpeded by the ambient magnetic field. Plasma traveling in (or with a component motion in) a plane perpendicular to the ambient magnetic field has an ambient field canceling current generated in it. Outbound nuclei are bent in a clockwise manner by the Lorentz force, electrons are bent in a counterclockwise direction. This creates a clockwise current from our perspective. A clockwise current, by the right hand rule, generates a magnetic field that cancels the ambient field that points at us. Some of the lateral motion due to the induced current is lost to thermalization, but for the most part the plasma will retain the bulk of its outbound velocity and kinetic energy. The tiny interstellar magnetic field is cancelled by a nominal current density, thus little heating and little loss of kinetic energy occurs. > Last I heard, cosmic rays were believed to have an average age in > the galaxy of a few million years- based on ratios of Li/Be/B > isotopes produced in transit. But this fact implies very little thermalization of, a very long mean free path for, the cosmic rays. They only have to travel 150,000 years to get here, not millions. > Since the LMC is actually outside our galaxy, I think it would be > safe to add a few million more. If nothing thermalizes the plasma pulse outbound motion, or at least some component of it, then some kind of material shock wave should immediately follow the light pulse and build. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 18 07:51:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IFpW8a027191; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 07:51:32 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2IFpUvn027165; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 07:51:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 07:51:30 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Cb/uoV7l2TQ989BE/UBpBeavMbm36UfpOFVSBlmbLnDdEkj55n3fxXJvB/pkKL9/; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <418-220063618155116453@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Circular Particles as Parallel Resonant "Tank Circuits" Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:51:16 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94021be4930ada4a9bbfd12dae278a84672350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.146 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67145 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Frank. We Know that particle Energy E = mc^2 = 8.19e-14 joule for an electron or positron(9.1E-31 kg) , and E = h*f or f = E/h = 8.19e-14/6.626e-34 = 1.236e20 Hz. E = hc/lambda and f = c/lambda = 1.23e20 Hz.... Or: Lambda = hc/E or h/mc . Where is the problem for an EM energy pulse reflecting back and forth on a doubly open-ended lossless transmission line at 1.23e20 times per second? Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 3/18/2006 8:19:39 AM Subject: Re: Circular Particles as Parallel Resonant "Tank Circuits" Resonant frequency f = 1/(LC)^1/2 = 1.23e20 Hz . Back to trig school. :-) Fred Thank you Fred. In your formula what is L? It is not known. You have two unknowns L and C. You formula is unsolvable. A better way to represent resonant frequency is. Resonant frequency f = K/(M)^1/2 = 1.23e20 Hz We now know the mass M of elementary particle. The only unknown is K. We can solve for it. What does the elastic constant K physically represent? Knowing that K is conceptually equivalent to 1/C and that elementary particles have the highest frequency possible. C represents a mimimum of stray capacitance or a mechanical elastic limit. I have traveled down this road and got a lot of answers. http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chaptera.html I have tried to get a paper published on the subject but, for the time being, I have given up dealing with journal editors. Frank Znidarsic . ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Frank.
 
We Know that particle Energy E = mc^2 = 8.19e-14 joule for an electron or positron(9.1E-31 kg) ,
and E = h*f  or f = E/h = 8.19e-14/6.626e-34 = 1.236e20 Hz.
E = hc/lambda and f = c/lambda = 1.23e20 Hz....
Or:
Lambda = hc/E or h/mc . 
 
Where is the problem for an EM energy pulse reflecting back and forth on a doubly open-ended
lossless transmission line at 1.23e20 times per second? 
 
Fred
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: 3/18/2006 8:19:39 AM
Subject: Re: Circular Particles as Parallel Resonant "Tank Circuits"

Resonant frequency f = 1/(LC)^1/2 = 1.23e20 Hz
.
 
Back to trig school.  :-)
 
Fred
 
 
<snip>
 
Thank you Fred.  In your formula what is L?   It is not known.   You have two unknowns L and C.  You formula is unsolvable.  A better way to represent resonant frequency is.
 
Resonant frequency f = K/(M)^1/2 = 1.23e20 Hz
 
We now know the  mass M of elementary particle.  The only unknown is K.  We can solve for it.  What does the elastic constant K physically represent?  Knowing that K is conceptually equivalent to 1/C  and that elementary particles have the highest frequency possible.  C represents a mimimum of stray capacitance or a mechanical elastic limit.  I have traveled down this road and got a lot of answers.
 
 
I have tried to get a paper published on the subject but, for the time being, I have given up dealing with journal editors.
 
 
Frank Znidarsic
 
.
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 18 08:00:17 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IG09ts030656; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:00:09 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2IG070h030640; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:00:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:00:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060318105413.035d9890@mindspring.com> Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060317165600.03542a98@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:59:59 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: New edition of "Cold Fusion and the Future" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67146 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I uploaded a new edition of "Cold Fusion and the Future." There are only a few changes. Mainly I corrected mistakes and added some new paragraphs and footnotes. In chapter 2, section 1, I substantiated some claims about plutonium 238, with an interesting footnote: [TEXT] Although the RTG itself is benign and reasonably safe to handle, the plutonium-238 isotope is so rare and difficult to separate out it costs millions of dollars per kilogram, and this relatively benign isotope has to be separated from tons of other plutonium and uranium, which are extremely dangerous. * * [FOOTNOTE] Estimates of the cost range from about $1 million to $10 million per kilogram. The U.S. DoE is constructing a new plant to separate out 238Pu. This will cost $1.5 billion, and over the life of the plant it will produce 150 kg of 238Pu, as well as 50,000 drums of hazardous nuclear waste. Source: Broad, W., U.S. Has Plans To Again Make Own Plutonium, in New York Times. 2005. Chapter 2, section 2 has a paragraph about micro-turbines and Stirling engines. It occurred to me after reading about Stirling Energy Corp. gadgets that these would make ideal first-generation electric generators with cold fusion. Although they have moving parts, they are sealed and they require little maintenance. Eventually I expect they will be replaced with thermoelectric devices, but in the first stages I think something like this would be a good choice. If cold fusion emerges, Stirling Energy Corp. will soon lose all of its business making solar thermal generator forms, but if they are smart they will quickly make even more money supplying cold fusion powered versions. They already make fossil fuel-fired gensets based on the gadget. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 18 08:05:02 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IG4q2G032255; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:04:52 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2IG4odU032241; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:04:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:04:50 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=oWCyuQkUVlSNr7LBdAV3izGkNXSTnr3giNLytuh7QhpFFkL/wbVrIm87UnJ49Cw7; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006361816443273@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Cold Fusion & Supernova 1987A] Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 09:04:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94055a280b98cd54181fe8421ed5d38acd5350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.146 Resent-Message-ID: <7HEyxC.A.t3H.i-CHEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67147 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace. Isn't it a bit presumptuous to assume isotropic magnetic fields in areas of space, based on local measurements? Magnetic Mirrors, and the Focus Coils of a CRT for example can keep charged particles in a straight line. Fred > [Original Message] > From: Horace Heffner > To: > Date: 3/18/2006 8:25:43 AM > Subject: Re: Cold Fusion & Supernova 1987A] > > > On Mar 17, 2006, at 3:04 PM, Bob Fickle wrote: > > > Yes, they will follow the field lines; but there's not much large- > > scale order to the galactic magnetic field, so it's more a > > diffusion process, once the particles leave the supernova's > > immediate area. There's no significant recombination- not enough > > electrons moving close to the same speed, and even those that did > > combine would be broken apart again by collisions with atoms in the > > interstellar medium. > > With an interstellar density of 1 atom/cm^2 this does indeed appear > to be true. The pulse will remain in plasma form. However, this > then also negates the effect of any ambient magnetic field. > > As the fast electrons fly away from the nuclei a large E gradient > develops and the electrons and > nuclei eventually rejoin. Their relative motion is thermalized, but > the net outward kinetic energy remains. Further, the initial ambient > magnetic field is cancelled by the plasma action. As long as the > plasma density is much larger than the interstellar matter density > the plasma pulse should travel fairly unimpeded. I haven't done the > calculation, but I would expect this distance to be a lot less than > 150,000 ly. > > Suppose we view the explosion from the north pole direction of the > ambient magnetic field. The initial ambient magnetic field lines > point toward us. The plasma that comes toward us is unimpeded by the > ambient magnetic field. Plasma traveling in (or with a component > motion in) a plane perpendicular to the ambient magnetic field has an > ambient field canceling current generated in it. Outbound nuclei are > bent in a clockwise manner by the Lorentz force, electrons are bent > in a counterclockwise direction. This creates a clockwise current > from our perspective. A clockwise current, by the right hand rule, > generates a magnetic field that cancels the ambient field that points > at us. Some of the lateral motion due to the induced current is lost > to thermalization, but for the most part the plasma will retain the > bulk of its outbound velocity and kinetic energy. The tiny > interstellar magnetic field is cancelled by a nominal current > density, thus little heating and little loss of kinetic energy occurs. > > > Last I heard, cosmic rays were believed to have an average age in > > the galaxy of a few million years- based on ratios of Li/Be/B > > isotopes produced in transit. > > But this fact implies very little thermalization of, a very long mean > free path for, the cosmic rays. They only have to travel 150,000 > years to get here, not millions. > > > > Since the LMC is actually outside our galaxy, I think it would be > > safe to add a few million more. > > If nothing thermalizes the plasma pulse outbound motion, or at least > some component of it, then some kind of material shock wave should > immediately follow the light pulse and build. > > Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 18 08:07:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IG7HVZ000865; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:07:17 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2IG7Dti000836; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:07:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:07:13 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060318110446.034344c0@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 11:07:13 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: New edition of "Cold Fusion and the Future" In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060318105413.035d9890@mindspring.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060318105413.035d9890@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67148 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I wrote: >If cold fusion emerges, Stirling Energy Corp. will soon lose all of >its business making solar thermal generator forms . . . Solar thermal generator FARMS. New microphone, new voice input configuration . . . Frustrating! Encourages telegraphic style not unlike Japanese. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 18 08:52:50 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IGqa0c016857; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:52:37 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2IGqZRs016844; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:52:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:52:35 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=G+5BAPSENcVQSgG/ixwDcDP5xzoP8jE8jVEqh94E5VEYQ9PZhH9D0b1pkX73MmjV; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063618165213302@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Circular Particles as Parallel Resonant "Tank Circuits" Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 09:52:13 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940c6c772d292828d550052bd51f554ed81350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.66 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67149 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Is The Inductance of Space Real? According to this, all space needs is Capacitance ( C ) and Potential ( V). http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/302l/lectures/node99.html The "Inductance" ( L ) is created by the Displacement Current ( I ) = C* dV/dt. ?? Charge +/- q = C * V = A Constant and Energy E = 1/2 C * V^2 = mc^2 :-) Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 3/18/2006 5:23:13 AM Subject: Re: Circular Particles as Parallel Resonant "Tank Circuits" Great Java Applet Simulator. http://www.walter-fendt.de/ph11e/osccirc.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 3/18/2006 4:56:27 AM Subject: Re: Circular Particles as Parallel Resonant "Tank Circuits" Energy E for electrons or positrons = 8.16e-14 joules Lambda = hc/E = 2.436e-12 meters for electron & positron circles eo = 8.85e-12 farad/meter uo = 4(pi)e-7 henry/meter C = eo*lambda = 2.155e-23 farad L = uo*lambda = 3.06e-18 henry Resonant frequency f = 1/(LC)^1/2 = 1.23e20 Hz Cycle period t = 1/f = 8.13e-21 seconds Zo = (L/C)^1/2 = 377 ohms I = +/- q*f = 19.7 amperes Potential V = (E/0.5C)^1/2 = 8.7e4 volts Displacement current *I = C* dV/dt or V/Zo = 8.7e^4/Zo = 230.8 amperes *I/I = 230.8/19.7 = 11.7 = (137.03)^1/2 ELI the ICE man at work here? If due to the Zo the current leads the voltage by 89.5818 degrees instead of 90 degrees alpha (0.00729729) = sin of 90 - 0.4181 = 89.5818 degrees. Back to trig school. :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Is The Inductance of Space Real?
 
According to this, all space needs is Capacitance ( C ) and Potential ( V).
 
 
The "Inductance"  ( L ) is created by the Displacement Current ( I ) = C* dV/dt.   ??
 
Charge +/- q = C * V = A Constant   and Energy E = 1/2 C * V^2  = mc^2  :-)
 
Fred
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 3/18/2006 5:23:13 AM
Subject: Re: Circular Particles as Parallel Resonant "Tank Circuits"

Great Java Applet Simulator.
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 3/18/2006 4:56:27 AM
Subject: Re: Circular Particles as Parallel Resonant "Tank Circuits"

Energy E for electrons or  positrons = 8.16e-14 joules
Lambda = hc/E = 2.436e-12 meters for electron & positron circles
eo = 8.85e-12 farad/meter
uo = 4(pi)e-7 henry/meter
C = eo*lambda = 2.155e-23 farad
L = uo*lambda = 3.06e-18 henry
Resonant frequency f = 1/(LC)^1/2 = 1.23e20 Hz
Cycle period t = 1/f = 8.13e-21 seconds
Zo = (L/C)^1/2 = 377 ohms
I = +/- q*f = 19.7 amperes
Potential V = (E/0.5C)^1/2 = 8.7e4 volts
Displacement current *I = C* dV/dt or V/Zo = 8.7e^4/Zo = 230.8 amperes
*I/I = 230.8/19.7 = 11.7 = (137.03)^1/2
 
ELI the ICE man at work here?
 
If due to the Zo the current leads the voltage by 89.5818 degrees instead of 90 degrees
alpha (0.00729729) = sin of 90 - 0.4181 = 89.5818 degrees.
 
Back to trig school.  :-)
 
Fred
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 18 08:55:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IGsxPx017795; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:55:00 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2IGsvH2017772; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:54:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:54:57 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 11:54:52 -0500 Message-Id: <8C818C3CF88F78D-20DC-10C80@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <418-220063618155116453@earthlink.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <418-220063618155116453@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Circular Particles as Parallel Resonant "Tank Circuits" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.69 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2IGsthi017742 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67150 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Frederick Sparber Where is the problem for an EM energy pulse reflecting back and forth on a doubly open-ended lossless transmission line at 1.23e20 times per second?  <><><><><><> How do you insure 100% reflection as free space has an impedence of 377 ohms? Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 18 08:56:01 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IGtkSj018423; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:55:46 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2IGtiMd018406; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:55:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:55:44 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <004b01c64aac$c83b07e0$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B57E50F@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> Subject: Re: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:55:36 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67151 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Zell >Where can we go beyond lithium? ... That's why the ultracap >approach is so exciting - it's a whole new way to fix the energy >storage problem. Here is a "slant" on the bettery (better-battery technology) that you will likely hear nowhere else. That could be because: 1) it is wrong, or 2) there is a fair amount of intentional disinformation out there, or 3) both Ultracapacitors will help - but are probably only "half" the long-term answer to the bettery (better battery) ... in that there is an underappreciated synergy between the capacitor and battery - the so-called bat-cap. This is more than semantics - and more than 'just' a combination of two different and distinct electrical parts. You have to merge the two in the design process itself to get the synergy. The idea is that the cap layer (thin and planar) carries/stores the negative charge while the electrochemical ions of the battery carry/store the positive. The result is somewhere in between either device, but it does require an electrolyte, unlike the cap, and the best way that you can merge the two dissimilarities is to go with many thin flat layers using a solid electrolyte. Many people who have analyzed the EEStor patent missed this key point (mainly because the patent is artfully written to throw out a number of red herrings). Everyone on the cutting edge of batteries these days seems to be throwing out false-leads ... why? for one thing - basically, all of the important patents expired years ago (or are about to expire now). Now we are down to improvements disguised as breakthroughs. There is a good argument that lithium, as a charge carrier, is far from ideal - even if it were cheap. And it is very expensive. Even the present demand for small batteries for computers and cell-phones has pushed the price of large capacity lithium way too high for practical automobile transportation. Plus lithium has a molecular weight of 7 and only one oxidation or reduction state while carbon, which is a thousand times cheaper (literally) as a commodity item, and has a molecular weight of 12 - less than double but triple the number of *usable* oxidation or reduction states (all four are not usable). Less voltage available per cell - but - all in all, for charge-retention per unit weight and cost, carbon is preferable to any other material, especially for the negative charge carrier (as an ultra-cap): http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2006/batteries-0208.html In terms of cost/weight per stored charge - for the positive side, there is a good case of sodium. which is also low density, cheap, ubiquitous and - best of all ! - there is available a well-engineered (courtesy of FMC forty years ago) but largely ignored solid electrolyte - beta alumina: http://scienceservice.si.edu/001023.htm This concept of sodium used with a solid electrolyte is almost always mentioned in the context of NAS - or sodium sulfur, but I have wondered for a long time why this could not broadened and merged into the bat-cap category. IOW the two positive face-surfaces of the thin (sandwiched planar) cap (the negative terminal) substitute for the sulfur of the NAS, drawing sodium ions physically through the solid electrolyte on charging. This might require some kind of bellows type expansion mechanism between the layers. If the negative charge carrier is a layer of activated carbon (as in the MIT patent) then in effect you have cut the cost and weight of the NAS in half. Before it was already in the same weight per charge category as lithium - at a tenth the cost but with one major drawback - which has kept it from use as a small battery (and out of mass production). The problem remains that beta alumina needs to be "warm" (450 K) to conduct sodium ions, and even though this situation has been remedied by a few hundred degrees since Ford gave up on the project, there are practical solutions. (hint: you always have plenty of waste heat with a hybrid). I got an inkling description of a prototype NAS battery setup yesterday that will blow the socks off of anything currently available for battery power, including lithium and hydrides. This WILL happen in the next few years, even in the face of budget cuts, but - sadly because of lack of cooperation and the free-market forces involved - that which is on the cutting edge today (in at least a dozen labs) can be easily improved on if they all were to share technology... (this in the opinion of an outsider who would like to have some EEStor shares, regardless of the fact that they missed a few things). Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 18 08:59:53 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IGxgEA020220; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:59:42 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2IGxfCi020199; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:59:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:59:41 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f In-Reply-To: <410-22006361816443273@earthlink.net> References: <410-22006361816443273@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Cold Fusion & Supernova 1987A] Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 07:59:38 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67152 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mar 18, 2006, at 7:04 AM, Frederick Sparber wrote: > Horace. > Isn't it a bit presumptuous to assume isotropic > magnetic fields in areas of space, based on local measurements? We are talking about small (e.g 5x10^-10 T) galactic fields. It doesn't much matter which way they point. The plasma from a supernova will neutralize them with nominal loss of kinetic energy. See: http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/G/galactic_magnetic_field.html The magnetic field of the exploding star itself diminishes as 1/r^3, so the dense plasma in its vicinity should handle it long enough to allow the fast movers to escape. We do know for sure plasma escapes supernova sufficiently to create nebula. > Magnetic Mirrors, and the Focus Coils of a CRT for example > can keep charged particles in a straight line. Actually, they don't do very well at *plasma* confinement even at colossal field strengths. If they did tokamak design would be easy. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 18 10:45:21 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IIj9Yj026150; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:45:09 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2IIj7pj026135; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:45:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:45:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=pTHwhJ87gMBq7/kbMZZjVBhSdLW9M8L+gbVK69FGHibzu+Iq9g4YqydhnlRRJI35; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063618184449225@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Circular Particles as Parallel Resonant "Tank Circuits" Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 11:44:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9404a96a993f4456582436548ba30cec1b2350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.107 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67153 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Terry wrote > > How do you insure 100% reflection as free space has an impedance of 377 ohms? > Try this with your 75 ohm "lossless" Coax. :-) Fred http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/302l/lectures/node99.html > > -----Original Message----- > From: Frederick Sparber > > Where is the problem for an EM energy pulse reflecting back and forth > on a doubly open-ended > lossless transmission line at 1.23e20 times per second?  > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 18 10:53:19 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IIqxJp029258; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:52:59 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2IIqwd7029236; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:52:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:52:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=qjpBaKdGG34h6JxkMOZS550wHa+8vEqZm2sjfA29actufwsPlbDTabyZmc1MOj91; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063618185250618@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Circular Particles as Parallel Resonant "Tank Circuits" Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 11:52:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940097b7928701fe1f20841c018c3912897350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.107 Resent-Message-ID: <5vfMyC.A.sIH.KcFHEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67154 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Oops Terry, my paster sent the wrong URL. :-) Try it with this. http://www.physics.ucla.edu/demoweb/demomanual/electricity_and_magnetism/ele ctrodynamics/transmission_line.html > [Original Message] > From: Frederick Sparber > To: > Date: 3/18/2006 11:45:35 AM > Subject: Re: Circular Particles as Parallel Resonant "Tank Circuits" > > Terry wrote > > > > How do you insure 100% reflection as free space has an impedance of 377 > ohms? > > > Try this with your 75 ohm "lossless" Coax. :-) > > Fred > > http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/302l/lectures/node99.html > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Frederick Sparber > > > > Where is the problem for an EM energy pulse reflecting back and forth > > on a doubly open-ended > > lossless transmission line at 1.23e20 times per second?  > > > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 18 10:57:35 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IIvK3h031206; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:57:20 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2IIvIdx031190; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:57:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:57:18 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060318105413.035d9890@mindspring.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060318105413.035d9890@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: New edition of "Cold Fusion and the Future" Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 09:57:15 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67155 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mar 18, 2006, at 6:59 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > > Chapter 2, section 2 has a paragraph about micro-turbines and > Stirling engines. It occurred to me after reading about Stirling > Energy Corp. gadgets that these would make ideal first-generation > electric generators with cold fusion. I suspect you are talking about Sterling Energy Systems (SES): http://www.stirlingenergy.com/ as opposed to Sterling Energy International: http://www.sterling-energy.com/default.htm or Sterling Energy plc: http://www.sterlingenergyuk.com/ or the Sterling Energy Corp that is now Basin Energy Inc.: http://www.wy.blm.gov/corplist/s.htm Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 18 11:21:08 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IJKwJM007566; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 11:20:58 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2IJKuTF007550; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 11:20:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 11:20:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060318141854.0352d470@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:20:53 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: New edition of "Cold Fusion and the Future" In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060318105413.035d9890@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67156 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: >I suspect you are talking about Sterling Energy Systems (SES): > >http://www.stirlingenergy.com/ > >as opposed to Sterling Energy International: > >http://www.sterling-energy.com/default.htm > >or Sterling Energy plc: . . . Goodness, there are a lot of them. Yes, that's the one, and I have it correctly foot noted in chapter 2. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 18 14:10:17 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IMA1sR000949; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:10:10 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2IM3lpo031477; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:03:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:03:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 17:03:32 -0500 From: fznidarsic@aol.com Message-Id: <8C818EEEE71930B-1A1C-4948@MBLK-M20.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Circular Particles as Parallel Resonant "Tank Circuits" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MailBlocks_8C818EEEE71930B_1A1C_46AF_MBLK-M20.sysops.aol.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.136.53 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <93azYD.A.vrH.BPIHEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67157 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----------MailBlocks_8C818EEEE71930B_1A1C_46AF_MBLK-M20.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" How do you insure 100% reflection as free space has an impedence of 377 ohms? Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com Very good question Terry. It a fundamental one. I had the same question. All rotating charges should emit electromagnetic energy and spiral into the nucleus. Why do they not? Is this energy reflected back. What is the mechanism? I believe that free space is not always a constant impediance enviroment. The impediance changes as the intensity of a quantum field exceeds its elastic limit. Its sort of like an insulator breaks down beyond a certain voltage. This is the condition of the stationary quantum state. Transitional quantum states are in a constant impediance state. That's how the energy flows between states. With this methodoligy I was able to describe the velovity of the transtional quantum state. I believe that it has a lot to do with cold fusion. http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chapterb.html enjoy Frank Znidarsic ----------MailBlocks_8C818EEEE71930B_1A1C_46AF_MBLK-M20.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
How do you insure 100% reflection as free space has an impedence of 377 ohms? 
Terry
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Very good question Terry.  It a fundamental one.  I had the same question.  All rotating charges should emit electromagnetic energy and spiral into the nucleus.  Why do they not?  Is this energy reflected back.  What is the mechanism?  I believe that free space is not always a constant impediance enviroment.  The impediance changes as the intensity of a quantum field exceeds its elastic limit.  Its sort of like an insulator breaks down beyond a certain voltage. This is the condition of the stationary quantum state.  Transitional quantum states are in a constant impediance state.  That's how the energy flows between states.  With this methodoligy I was able to describe the velovity of the transtional quantum state.  I believe that it has a lot to do with cold fusion.
 
 
 
enjoy
 
Frank Znidarsic
----------MailBlocks_8C818EEEE71930B_1A1C_46AF_MBLK-M20.sysops.aol.com-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 18 14:21:33 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2IMLNpW005177; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:21:24 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2IMLMUr005150; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:21:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:21:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: References: <2FCD8D8F-3291-44FF-8DDC-81E09E0E4820@mtaonline.net> <4BC66842-A6C5-497D-8DBA-B6DAB5EDD0D8@mtaonline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Polar CO2 Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 13:21:17 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67158 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Given a 30 percent drop in the Atlantic conveyor belt flow rate in 12 years: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1898493,00.html it may be that there is a powerful but not yet understood biological feedback occurring in the ocean due to a reduced nutrient flow from the depths caused by the conveyor belt shutdown. Polar fresh water runoff is suggested to be the cause of the conveyor belt slowdown. The conveyor belt is driven by salinity density changes, and injection of fresh water in the polar regions disrupts the cycle. The salinity changes, nutrient changes, and thermal changes brought about by the slowdown may be affecting both the location of and population of carbon sequestering organisms, and the carbon sequestration rate in general. A sudden population change would occur more like a step function than a logarithmic function. "The results, published today in Nature, show that the outward flow of the Gulf Stream has not changed, but the strength of the cold water returning from the Arctic has fallen by 30 per cent since 1992. Over the same period, the flow of warm water branching off towards Africa has increased by 30 per cent. This suggests that the warm waters are being diverted away from Europe." A sudden population change could cause sudden onset long term linear or non-linear effects. Given the large number of feedback cycles involved a non-linear and even exponential parameter change seems likely but we probably will have to wait until it is too late to find out. Maybe you have a specific underlying model in mind to explain the regime change Robin? Attempting curve fitting for extrapolation into the future is sometimes a lot more meaningful if there is an underlying physical model to justify the curve family. However, in this case it looks like there has been an abrupt regime change of some kind, and we don't even know what family of curve to apply. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 18 18:03:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2J23WbQ013886; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 18:03:32 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2J23Uhd013869; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 18:03:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 18:03:30 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Polar CO2 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:03:26 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <2FCD8D8F-3291-44FF-8DDC-81E09E0E4820@mtaonline.net> <4BC66842-A6C5-497D-8DBA-B6DAB5EDD0D8@mtaonline.net> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta04ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sun, 19 Mar 2006 02:03:26 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2J23R5c013851 Resent-Message-ID: <7T_gHC.A.pYD.xvLHEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67159 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Horace Heffner's message of Sat, 18 Mar 2006 13:21:17 -0900: Hi, [snip] >Given a 30 percent drop in the Atlantic conveyor belt flow rate in 12 >years: > >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1898493,00.html > >it may be that there is a powerful but not yet understood biological >feedback occurring in the ocean due to a reduced nutrient flow from >the depths caused by the conveyor belt shutdown. There are probably lots of them, but I suspect that simple chemical dissolution of CO2 in water outweighs all of them. (It has to dissolve in the water before they can make use of it). According to Wiki, humanity puts about 22E9 tons of CO2 into the air every year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Warming), which is a rate of increase of about 2.5 ppm / yr. However this assumes that the CO2 is evenly distributed throughout the atmosphere, and it may be more concentrated near the ground because it's heavier than air. It also takes no account of the amount removed by photosynthesis, and other processes. However if the rate of increase of 2.7 ppm/yr previously mentioned were to apply to the whole planet, then we would have to seriously consider the possibility that existing carbon sinks are becoming sources iso sinks, i.e. that they are releasing CO2 iso sequestering it. At least some of our 2.5 is being removed by photosynthesis, and yet the increase is larger than everything we throw in, which would mean that there would have to be a major new non-anthropogenic source (or Wiki is ignoring the clearing/burning of tropical forests?)! I would look to the solubility of CO2 in the oceans as the most likely reason for this. As the average water temperature rises, we may find that CO2 which had already dissolved in the past, is now being released. This would result in a huge positive feedback cycle and rapid warming. Not to mention the additional feedback resulting from the increase in water vapor. (As the air temperature rises, so does the maximum possible partial vapor pressure of water - which is why the tropics are humid and the poles dry). >Polar fresh water >runoff is suggested to be the cause of the conveyor belt slowdown. >The conveyor belt is driven by salinity density changes, and >injection of fresh water in the polar regions disrupts the cycle. >The salinity changes, nutrient changes, and thermal changes brought >about by the slowdown may be affecting both the location of and >population of carbon sequestering organisms, and the carbon >sequestration rate in general. A sudden population change would >occur more like a step function than a logarithmic function. > >"The results, published today in Nature, show that the outward flow >of the Gulf Stream has not changed, but the strength of the cold >water returning from the Arctic has fallen by 30 per cent since 1992. >Over the same period, the flow of warm water branching off towards >Africa has increased by 30 per cent. This suggests that the warm >waters are being diverted away from Europe." Which makes sense, if the flow past Europe were previously being "sucked" North by the falling saline water in the arctic. > >A sudden population change could cause sudden onset long term linear >or non-linear effects. Given the large number of feedback cycles >involved Yes, at least one for every species on Earth, which means 10's of millions of them. Hence this approach to modeling is not feasible. >a non-linear and even exponential parameter change seems >likely but we probably will have to wait until it is too late to find >out. If we ever do. > >Maybe you have a specific underlying model in mind to explain the >regime change Robin? I have already expressed my best guess here above, i.e. that the oceans have changed from being a carbon sink to a carbon source, and that that has probably happened within the last decade. (BTW an increase in sub-marine volcanic activity would also hasten this process). >Attempting curve fitting for extrapolation into >the future is sometimes a lot more meaningful if there is an >underlying physical model to justify the curve family. However, in >this case it looks like there has been an abrupt regime change of >some kind, and we don't even know what family of curve to apply. I tried to show that even an exponential curve doesn't appear to be rising fast enough, so yes I think we are up the proverbial creek without a paddle. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 18 18:55:53 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2J2tg35031703; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 18:55:42 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2J2tflG031689; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 18:55:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 18:55:41 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Efimov state - key to multi-nuclear LENR? Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:55:39 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3qhp12d6bv1ag1h5har4b036e1tdtivfi7@4ax.com> References: <2.2.32.20060316132113.009f85a0@pop.freeserve.net> <002601c64900$3410c620$72027841@xptower> <052401c6491c$76b6ef10$6401a8c0@NuDell> <001a01c64a91$3784c800$2a027841@xptower> In-Reply-To: <001a01c64a91$3784c800$2a027841@xptower> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta02ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sun, 19 Mar 2006 02:55:38 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2J2tcfw031649 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67160 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to RC Macaulay's message of Sat, 18 Mar 2006 07:38:17 -0600: Hi Richard, [snip] >Howdy Robin, >Simple explanations of physics are never as simple as viewed. The rings, >like the favorite magic trick using loops, may actually each be shaped in >the figure 8 .. plus in "mobus" form. Cutting one would provide the optical >illusion of separating the remaining two, or even trickier, the mobus strip >type rings are not connected but " run" in a track. >When watching a " magic show", one must consider what is seen doesn't >necessarily mean you are seeing what is. All the smoke and mirrors don't detract from the basic facts. What I said stands. The number 3 is a direct consequence of living in a 3 dimensional universe. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 18 19:52:53 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2J3qcel021101; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 19:52:39 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2J3qb6S021092; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 19:52:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 19:52:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 22:52:34 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8191FB08E90CD-2680-284C9@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <2FCD8D8F-3291-44FF-8DDC-81E09E0E4820@mtaonline.net> <4BC66842-A6C5-497D-8DBA-B6DAB5EDD0D8@mtaonline.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Polar CO2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.133 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67161 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Robin van Spaandonk I tried to show that even an exponential curve doesn't appear to be rising fast enough, so yes I think we are up the proverbial creek without a paddle. <><><><><><> And you haven't even considered the non-linear rise in methane due to the melting of the permafrost in the Russian tundra. T ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 18 20:07:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2J47bOa026978; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 20:07:38 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2J47ZXv026947; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 20:07:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 20:07:35 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 23:06:25 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: Polar CO2 In-reply-to: <8C8191FB08E90CD-2680-284C9@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: <5kWBTD.A.9kG.GkNHEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67162 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What is the uncertainty in these figures? Harry hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robin van Spaandonk > > I tried to show that even an exponential curve doesn't appear to > be rising fast enough, so yes I think we are up the proverbial > creek without a paddle. > > > <><><><><><> > > And you haven't even considered the non-linear rise in methane due to > the melting of the permafrost in the Russian tundra. > > T > ___________________________________________________ > Try the New Netscape Mail Today! > Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List > http://mail.netscape.com > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 18 20:19:20 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2J4IsDj031430; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 20:18:55 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2J4IpWt031404; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 20:18:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 20:18:51 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: References: <2FCD8D8F-3291-44FF-8DDC-81E09E0E4820@mtaonline.net> <4BC66842-A6C5-497D-8DBA-B6DAB5EDD0D8@mtaonline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Horace Heffner Subject: Re: Polar CO2 Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 19:18:39 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67163 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mar 18, 2006, at 5:03 PM, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > I tried to show that even an exponential curve doesn't appear to > be rising fast enough, so yes I think we are up the proverbial > creek without a paddle. Well, lets just hope the numbers are either highly local, or just plain wrong. Meanwhile, I'm off to get some personal things done. Bye for now. Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 18 22:19:19 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2J6J6V8004762; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 22:19:06 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2J6J4dp004730; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 22:19:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 22:19:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Science exposes Hot Fusion weaknesses: March 11, 2006 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 17:18:59 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060311120104.02a522b0@mail.newenergytimes.com> <92p612193s9hdu2p09kcjlqj3tvs5h971e@4ax.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20060311161822.028b8f48@mail.newenergytimes.com> <02B808D6-D0D9-4F58-8DCE-2E2B7212D2F9@mtaonline.net> In-Reply-To: <02B808D6-D0D9-4F58-8DCE-2E2B7212D2F9@mtaonline.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta04ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sun, 19 Mar 2006 06:18:59 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2J6J1lq004680 Resent-Message-ID: <5DVzwC.A.yJB.XfPHEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67164 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Horace Heffner's message of Tue, 14 Mar 2006 04:05:24 -0900: Hi Horace, [snip] >A LiBr in D2O solution might also work as a neutron moderator plus >energy extractor. With a molecular weight of 86.85 and solubility of >2540 g/l, that's about .2 g/cm^3 of lithium. What was wrong with your original suggestion of LiOD? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 18 22:32:01 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2J6VqUq009101; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 22:31:52 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2J6VokT009086; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 22:31:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 22:31:50 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Polar CO2 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 17:31:46 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <2FCD8D8F-3291-44FF-8DDC-81E09E0E4820@mtaonline.net> <4BC66842-A6C5-497D-8DBA-B6DAB5EDD0D8@mtaonline.net> <8C8191FB08E90CD-2680-284C9@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C8191FB08E90CD-2680-284C9@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta05ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sun, 19 Mar 2006 06:31:47 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2J6VmQq009066 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67165 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to hohlrauml6d@netscape.net's message of Sat, 18 Mar 2006 22:52:34 -0500: Hi, [snip] > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Robin van Spaandonk > >I tried to show that even an exponential curve doesn't appear to >be rising fast enough, so yes I think we are up the proverbial >creek without a paddle. > > ><><><><><><> > >And you haven't even considered the non-linear rise in methane due to >the melting of the permafrost in the Russian tundra. Indeed. BTW as Horace previously suggested, atmospheric oxidation of the methane might be the source of the increased CO2 measurement. However that is hardly comforting. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 18 22:33:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2J6XXc9009693; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 22:33:34 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2J6XWdD009677; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 22:33:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 22:33:32 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Polar CO2 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 17:33:29 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3nup12lbb2merlhmtdbimf9kvnl3vihhvm@4ax.com> References: <8C8191FB08E90CD-2680-284C9@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta05ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sun, 19 Mar 2006 06:33:29 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2J6XUrc009654 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67166 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Sat, 18 Mar 2006 23:06:25 -0500: Hi, [snip] >What is the uncertainty in these figures? >Harry [snip] I have no idea. However at least one of them applies to only one specific measurement station. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 19 00:55:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2J8sxlM019681; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 00:54:59 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2J8sqKv019638; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 00:54:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 00:54:52 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=ppJxQzCN2R3sY8dIC0pqyPbV/nrUQaYxE8yRtm6ispLwOGCMzslUhxeNu17c95BB; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <414-22006301985439275@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Circular Particles as Parallel Resonant "Tank Circuits" Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 01:54:39 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94071740d075bf105d42fbcf265759f457a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.155 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67167 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Frank Z wrote. > > All rotating charges should emit electromagnetic energy and spiral into the nucleus. > Why do they not? Is this energy reflected back. What is the mechanism? > I believe that free space is not always a constant impediance enviroment. > The impediance changes as the intensity of a quantum field exceeds its elastic limit. > Its sort of like an insulator breaks down beyond a certain voltage. > Here's an abbreviated lesson on how a trapped photon in a lossless-totally -reflecting section of a fiber optic wave guide works, Frank. http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/jk1/lectures/node95.html Dielectric wave guides "Consider an axisymmetric tube of arbitrary cross section made of some dielectric material and surrounded by a vacuum. This structure can serve as a wave guide provided that the dielectric constant of the material is sufficiently large. Note, however, that the boundary conditions satisfied by the electromagnetic fields are significantly different to those of a conventional wave guide. The transverse fields are governed by two equations; one for the region inside the dielectric, and the other for the vacuum region." "The oscillatory solutions (inside) must be matched to the exponentiating solutions (outside). The boundary conditions are the continuity of normal and and tangential and on the surface of the tube. These boundary conditions are far more complicated than those in a conventional wave guide. For this reason, the normal modes cannot usually be classified as either pure TE or pure TM modes. In general, the normal modes possess both electric and magnetic field components in the transverse plane. However, for the special case of a cylindrical tube of dielectric material the normal modes can have either pure TE or pure TM characteristics." Enjoy. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Frank Z wrote.
>
> All rotating charges should emit electromagnetic energy and spiral into the nucleus. 
> Why do they not?  Is this energy reflected back.  What is the mechanism? 
> I believe that free space is not always a constant impediance enviroment. 
> The impediance changes as the intensity of a quantum field exceeds its elastic limit. 
> Its sort of like an insulator breaks down beyond a certain voltage.
>
 
Here's an abbreviated lesson on how a trapped photon in a  lossless-totally -reflecting
section of a fiber optic wave guide works, Frank.
 
 
"Consider an axisymmetric tube of arbitrary cross section made of some dielectric material and surrounded by a vacuum. This structure can serve as a wave guide provided that the dielectric constant of the material is sufficiently large. Note, however, that the boundary conditions satisfied by the electromagnetic fields are significantly different to those of a conventional wave guide. The transverse fields are governed by two equations; one for the region inside the dielectric, and the other for the vacuum region."
"The oscillatory solutions (inside) must be matched to the exponentiating solutions (outside). The boundary conditions are the continuity of normal ${\bfm B}$ and ${\bfm D}$ and tangential ${\bfm E}$ and ${\bfm H}$ on the surface of the tube. These boundary conditions are far more complicated than those in a conventional wave guide. For this reason, the normal modes cannot usually be classified as either pure TE or pure TM modes. In general, the normal modes possess both electric and magnetic field components in the transverse plane. However, for the special case of a cylindrical tube of dielectric material the normal modes can have either pure TE or pure TM characteristics."
 
Enjoy. 
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- ------=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: image/png; name="img587.png" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: img587.png Content-Id: <410-220063019854365919@13071999> iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAABQAAAAQBAAAAAGBhN1QAAAAAnRSTlMAD+Ys0KkAAABeSURBVHic XYoxDoAwDAM9IlWiD2fgK9kZ+qR6ROoQnLagCidxTonhBAmPErpx7JhbrxYswVsyOY8UWZz+3lcf X5Y93HK4556vM7PEP4RUBjJF/68obSK3qu54SSJ/AFEbheN1axiPAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC ------=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: image/png; name="img1035.png" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: img1035.png Content-Id: <184671-2200630198543659110@13071999> iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAABQAAAAQBAAAAAGBhN1QAAAAAnRSTlMAD+Ys0KkAAABeSURBVHic TY3BCsAgDEN7HAj78cH2K9538JPMceAhplWHqcZnCNQIA4w+QmaM169yfM6SsaUsR4F37eHKd8eV otPcGcwz+nV2tvqPJpWBSNoz09t/A8tCHFUn8JVE7LhJijzxsxYBAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC ------=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: image/png; name="img586.png" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: img586.png Content-Id: <63342-2200630198543659111@13071999> iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAABMAAAAQBAAAAAFjWMYpAAAAAnRSTlMAD+Ys0KkAAABlSURBVHic VYwxDsAgDAM9ImXol7t36FfYkcqDOsQ7UtMEqFAtYQ4nGEaQMDSYo2WOO07z0RXs8pcUd+7BwGk9 5995bOG5e+nJc0Y7dPas9YVw1YEU5vql6daJVThSJqWMb8Wlji84r4i0gnyJlwAAAABJRU5ErkJg gg== ------=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: image/png; name="img1278.png" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: img1278.png Content-Id: <265003-2200630198543659112@13071999> iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAABYAAAAQBAAAAAGFcQ1tAAAAAnRSTlMAD+Ys0KkAAABkSURBVHic ZY07DsAgDEM9ImXowStxFvZI5UjJzpDmUzq0yMgvjhEwhSqsZAYbfpMj8uXKPMdFY0Z6UkwYzxv7 m/YmYTObykeapUFpN+t8GSBXcXTpzYG+eYaS1b9qUswszJfzDWHKmOCuUduKAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC ------=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 19 01:26:53 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2J9Qhxd030208; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 01:26:43 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2J9QfTo030187; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 01:26:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 01:26:41 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=eTEjQIe7i1b8YYu6Ve/M/8n6zNA104X8caQ3/sOKJT1t+PDtO+UoB51n5Snk6zsw; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <414-22006301992618906@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Circular Particles as Parallel Resonant "Tank Circuits" Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 02:26:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940638367ca60c7bb88fa9878f0d1430c3a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.81 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67168 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Now bend that lossless fiber optic section into a circle "Torus?" with infinite "Q, Frank. Invoke; Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle. http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~imamura/208/jan27/hup.html "In the Quantum Mechanical world, the idea that we can locate objects exactly breaks down. Let me state this idea more precisely. Suppose a particle has momentum p and position x. In a Quantum Mechanical world, I would not be able to measure p and x precisely. There would be an uncertainty associated with each measurement that I could never get rid of, even in a perfect experiment!!! The size of the uncertainties are not independent; they are related as dp x dx > h / (2 x pi) = Planck's constant / (2 x pi) The preceding is a statement of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. A consequence of the Uncertainty Principle is that if an object's position x is defined precisely then the momentum of the object will be only weakly constrained, and vice versa. One cannot simultaneously find both the position and momentum of an object to arbitrary accuracy. " If you can see the photon going around it, I'm certain that the Q is too low. :-) Fred http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/jk1/lectures/node91.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 3/19/2006 1:55:22 AM Subject: Re: Circular Particles as Parallel Resonant "Tank Circuits" Frank Z wrote. > > All rotating charges should emit electromagnetic energy and spiral into the nucleus. > Why do they not? Is this energy reflected back. What is the mechanism? > I believe that free space is not always a constant impediance enviroment. > The impediance changes as the intensity of a quantum field exceeds its elastic limit. > Its sort of like an insulator breaks down beyond a certain voltage. > Here's an abbreviated lesson on how a trapped photon in a lossless-totally -reflecting section of a fiber optic wave guide works, Frank. http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/jk1/lectures/node95.html Dielectric wave guides "Consider an axisymmetric tube of arbitrary cross section made of some dielectric material and surrounded by a vacuum. This structure can serve as a wave guide provided that the dielectric constant of the material is sufficiently large. Note, however, that the boundary conditions satisfied by the electromagnetic fields are significantly different to those of a conventional wave guide. The transverse fields are governed by two equations; one for the region inside the dielectric, and the other for the vacuum region." "The oscillatory solutions (inside) must be matched to the exponentiating solutions (outside). The boundary conditions are the continuity of normal and and tangential and on the surface of the tube. These boundary conditions are far more complicated than those in a conventional wave guide. For this reason, the normal modes cannot usually be classified as either pure TE or pure TM modes. In general, the normal modes possess both electric and magnetic field components in the transverse plane. However, for the special case of a cylindrical tube o! f dielectric material the normal modes can have either pure TE or pure TM characteristics." Enjoy. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Now bend that lossless  fiber optic section into a circle "Torus?" with
infinite "Q, Frank.
 
Invoke; Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle.
 
 
"In the Quantum Mechanical world, the idea that we can locate objects exactly breaks down. Let me state this idea more precisely. Suppose a particle has momentum p and position x. In a Quantum Mechanical world,  I would not be able to measure p  and x  precisely. There would be an uncertainty  associated with each measurement that I could never get rid of, even in a perfect experiment!!! The size of the uncertainties are not independent; they are related as

dp x dx > h / (2 x pi) = Planck's constant / (2 x pi)

The preceding is a statement of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. A consequence of the Uncertainty Principle  is that if an object's position x is defined precisely then the momentum of the object will be only weakly constrained, and vice versa. One cannot simultaneously find both the position and momentum of an object to arbitrary accuracy. "

 
If you can see the photon going around it, I'm certain that the Q is too low.  :-)
 
Fred
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 3/19/2006 1:55:22 AM
Subject: Re: Circular Particles as Parallel Resonant "Tank Circuits"

Frank Z wrote.
>
> All rotating charges should emit electromagnetic energy and spiral into the nucleus. 
> Why do they not?  Is this energy reflected back.  What is the mechanism? 
> I believe that free space is not always a constant impediance enviroment. 
> The impediance changes as the intensity of a quantum field exceeds its elastic limit. 
> Its sort of like an insulator breaks down beyond a certain voltage.
>
 
Here's an abbreviated lesson on how a trapped photon in a  lossless-totally -reflecting
section of a fiber optic wave guide works, Frank.
 
 
"Consider an axisymmetric tube of arbitrary cross section made of some dielectric material and surrounded by a vacuum. This structure can serve as a wave guide provided that the dielectric constant of the material is sufficiently large. Note, however, that the boundary conditions satisfied by the electromagnetic fields are significantly different to those of a conventional wave guide. The transverse fields are governed by two equations; one for the region inside the dielectric, and the other for the vacuum region."
"The oscillatory solutions (inside) must be matched to the exponentiating solutions (outside). The boundary conditions are the continuity of normal ${\bfm B}$ and ${\bfm D}$ and tangential ${\bfm E}$ and ${\bfm H}$ on the surface of the tube. These boundary conditions are far more complicated than those in a conventional wave guide. For this reason, the normal modes cannot usually be classified as either pure TE or pure TM modes. In general, the normal modes possess both electric and magnetic field components in the transverse plane. However, for the special case of a cylindrical tube o! f dielectric material the normal modes can have either pure TE or pure TM characteristics."
 
Enjoy. 
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- ------=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: image/png; name="img587.png" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: img587.png Content-Id: <410-220063019926929313@13071999> iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAABQAAAAQBAAAAAGBhN1QAAAAAnRSTlMAD+Ys0KkAAABeSURBVHic XYoxDoAwDAM9IlWiD2fgK9kZ+qR6ROoQnLagCidxTonhBAmPErpx7JhbrxYswVsyOY8UWZz+3lcf X5Y93HK4556vM7PEP4RUBjJF/68obSK3qu54SSJ/AFEbheN1axiPAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC ------=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: image/png; name="img1035.png" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: img1035.png Content-Id: <184671-220063019926929314@13071999> iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAABQAAAAQBAAAAAGBhN1QAAAAAnRSTlMAD+Ys0KkAAABeSURBVHic TY3BCsAgDEN7HAj78cH2K9538JPMceAhplWHqcZnCNQIA4w+QmaM169yfM6SsaUsR4F37eHKd8eV otPcGcwz+nV2tvqPJpWBSNoz09t/A8tCHFUn8JVE7LhJijzxsxYBAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC ------=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: image/png; name="img586.png" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: img586.png Content-Id: <63342-220063019926929315@13071999> iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAABMAAAAQBAAAAAFjWMYpAAAAAnRSTlMAD+Ys0KkAAABlSURBVHic VYwxDsAgDAM9ImXol7t36FfYkcqDOsQ7UtMEqFAtYQ4nGEaQMDSYo2WOO07z0RXs8pcUd+7BwGk9 5995bOG5e+nJc0Y7dPas9YVw1YEU5vql6daJVThSJqWMb8Wlji84r4i0gnyJlwAAAABJRU5ErkJg gg== ------=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: image/png; name="img1278.png" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: img1278.png Content-Id: <265003-220063019926929316@13071999> iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAABYAAAAQBAAAAAGFcQ1tAAAAAnRSTlMAD+Ys0KkAAABkSURBVHic ZY07DsAgDEM9ImXowStxFvZI5UjJzpDmUzq0yMgvjhEwhSqsZAYbfpMj8uXKPMdFY0Z6UkwYzxv7 m/YmYTObykeapUFpN+t8GSBXcXTpzYG+eYaS1b9qUswszJfzDWHKmOCuUduKAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC ------=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 19 02:52:14 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JAq6xt022175; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 02:52:07 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2JAq4Gw022156; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 02:52:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 02:52:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=hEEItCDbx/JY2WU0SgVy/UVVazBHMHH2wC1HvaX2oqG7/Wsa4dculiwpgdCv/2Ez; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063019105146206@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: The Principle of Complementarity Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 03:51:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9404968717b6ad4a6c352d194bd83ba3fd0350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.67 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67169 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII It also means that if you come up with "new " physics, it better darn well complement the existing paradigm. :-) http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~imamura/208/jan27/hup.html "Complementarity and the Copenhagen Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics" ""[In 1961] I had occasion to discuss Bohr's ideas with the great Japanese physicist [Yukawa], whose conception of the meson with its complementary aspects of elementary particle and field of nuclear force is one of the most striking illustrations of the fruitfulness of the new way of looking at things that we owe to Neils Bohr. I asked Yukawa whether the Japanese physicists had the same difficulty as their Western colleagues in assimilating the idea of complementarity ... He answered `No, Bohr's argumentation has always appeared quite evident to us; ... you see, we in Japan have not been corrupted by Aristotle." -- Rosenfeld, Physics Today 16, (Oct 1963), pg. 47." Jones will enjoy this. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
It also means that if you come up with "new " physics, it better
darn well complement the existing paradigm.  :-)
 
 
"Complementarity and the Copenhagen Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics"
 
""[In 1961] I had occasion to discuss Bohr's ideas with the great Japanese physicist [Yukawa], whose conception of the meson with its complementary aspects of elementary particle and field of nuclear force is one of the most striking illustrations of the fruitfulness of the new way of looking at things that we owe to Neils Bohr. I asked Yukawa whether the Japanese physicists had the same difficulty as their Western colleagues in assimilating the idea of complementarity ... He answered `No, Bohr's argumentation has always appeared quite evident to us; ... you see, we in Japan have not been corrupted by Aristotle." -- Rosenfeld, Physics Today 16, (Oct 1963), pg. 47."
 
Jones will enjoy this. 
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 19 06:25:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JEPWqj002807; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 06:25:33 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2JEPVQ1002797; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 06:25:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 06:25:31 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2006-03-10) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.2 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Message-ID: <000601c64b60$ef64c4a0$5f037841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: References: <2.2.32.20060316132113.009f85a0@pop.freeserve.net> <002601c64900$3410c620$72027841@xptower> <052401c6491c$76b6ef10$6401a8c0@NuDell> <001a01c64a91$3784c800$2a027841@xptower> <3qhp12d6bv1ag1h5har4b036e1tdtivfi7@4ax.com> Subject: Re: Efimov state - key to multi-nuclear LENR? Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 08:25:11 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67170 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin van Spaandonk" To: Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 8:55 PM Subject: Re: Efimov state - key to multi-nuclear LENR? > In reply to RC Macaulay's message of Sat, 18 Mar 2006 07:38:17 > -0600: > Hi Richard, > [snip] >>Howdy Robin, >>Simple explanations of physics are never as simple as viewed. The rings, >>like the favorite magic trick using loops, may actually each be shaped in >>the figure 8 .. plus in "mobus" form. Cutting one would provide the >>optical >>illusion of separating the remaining two, or even trickier, the mobus >>strip >>type rings are not connected but " run" in a track. >>When watching a " magic show", one must consider what is seen doesn't >>necessarily mean you are seeing what is. > > All the smoke and mirrors don't detract from the basic facts. What > I said stands. The number 3 is a direct consequence of living in a > 3 dimensional universe. Howdy Robin, I agree that the number 3 represents three as I agree many in the Vorts group are the SPOTP. A 3 dimensional universe may be a stretch considering the universe is only an image of the real. Richard From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 19 06:35:46 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JEZYux006825; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 06:35:34 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2JEZWWx006807; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 06:35:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 06:35:32 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:35:25 -0500 From: fznidarsic@aol.com Message-Id: <8C819797F174332-1A18-448A@mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Circular Particles as Parallel Resonant "Tank Circuits" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MailBlocks_8C819797EFD096A_1A18_411A_mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 205.188.212.229 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67171 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----------MailBlocks_8C819797EFD096A_1A18_411A_mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" If you can see the photon going around it, I'm certain that the Q is too low. :-) Fred Thank you fred. It does not have to be a photon going around in it. It could just be a leptonic energy field with a momentum E/c. It's frequency must be the Compton frequency. If you do an analysis of the Doppler shift of an energy field that moves at velocity c you will find a beat note that has a wavelength equal to the Debroglie wavelength of matter. I've done the analysis, Hal Fox published it in Fusion Facts It can be found on page of the link below with a java animation. http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chapter7.html#Pg9 If you have bothered to read my links you will find that I have calculated the relativistic properties of matter, the deBroglie wavelength, the Compton frequency, and the energy levels of atoms based on the premice that the matter wave propagates at velocity c and has a momentum E/c. What sticks this fast moving matter wave? There is no coax cable or boundry conditions. I went back to elementary models of simple harmonic motion for an answer. All classical waves are reflected by a change in characteristic impediance. Should the matter wave be any different? I injected an elastic limit into a model of many answers. For example let us assume that we have an infinite coaxial cable. We increase the voltage to the point were it breaks down. Energy traveling down the coax is refected away at the point of the break down. Likewise energy within the break point is trapped there. Using this sort of logic I was able to compute the hight of the nuclear potential wall, the mass of a elecron, the radius of the proton, the mass of the W particle, and the probablilty of quantum transition. see chapers 10, 11, and 12. Techniques for controlling the gravitational (antigravity)and nuclear forces (cold fusion) fell out of the analytics. There has got to be something to this. Frank Znidarsic ----------MailBlocks_8C819797EFD096A_1A18_411A_mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
If you can see the photon going around it, I'm certain that the Q is too low.  :-)
 
Fred
 
 
 Thank you fred.  It does not have to be a photon going around in it.  It could just be a leptonic energy field with a momentum E/c.  It's frequency must be the Compton frequency.  If you do an analysis of the Doppler  shift of an energy field that moves at velocity c you will find a beat note that has a wavelength equal to the Debroglie wavelength of matter.  I've done the analysis, Hal Fox published it in
Fusion Facts  It can be found on page of the link below with a java animation.
 
 
If you have bothered to read my links you will find that I have calculated the relativistic properties of matter, the deBroglie wavelength, the Compton frequency, and the energy levels of atoms based on the premice that the matter wave propagates at velocity c and has a momentum E/c.  What sticks this fast moving matter wave? 
There is no coax cable or boundry conditions.  I went back to elementary models of simple harmonic motion for an answer.  All classical waves are reflected by a change in characteristic impediance.  Should the matter wave be any different?  I injected an elastic limit into a model of many answers.  For example let us assume that we have an infinite coaxial cable.  We increase the voltage to the point were it breaks down.  Energy traveling down the coax is refected away at the point of the break down.  Likewise energy within the break point is trapped there.  Using this sort of logic I was able to compute the hight of the nuclear potential wall, the mass of a elecron, the radius of the proton, the mass of the W particle, and the probablilty of quantum transition.  see chapers 10, 11, and 12.  Techniques for controlling the gravitational (antigravity)and nuclear forces (cold fusion) fell out of the analytics.
 
There has got to be something to this.
 
Frank Znidarsic
----------MailBlocks_8C819797EFD096A_1A18_411A_mblk-d45.sysops.aol.com-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 19 08:11:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JGAJwZ015650; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 08:10:19 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2JGAEIV015577; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 08:10:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 08:10:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:10:07 -0500 Message-Id: <8C81986B99ED802-1B40-8E0C@mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <2.2.32.20060316132113.009f85a0@pop.freeserve.net> <002601c64900$3410c620$72027841@xptower> <052401c6491c$76b6ef10$6401a8c0@NuDell> <001a01c64a91$3784c800$2a027841@xptower> <3qhp12d6bv1ag1h5har4b036e1tdtivfi7@4ax.com> <000601c64b60$ef64c4a0$5f037841@xptower> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <000601c64b60$ef64c4a0$5f037841@xptower> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Efimov state - key to multi-nuclear LENR? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.134 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2JGAAoA015507 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67172 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: RC Macaulay I agree that the number 3 represents three as I agree many in the Vorts group are the SPOTP. A 3 dimensional universe may be a stretch considering the universe is only an image of the real.  <><><><><><><> Really, all that is needed is 2 dimensions. As in hologram, all the information needed to create the third dimension is contained in the two. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 19 08:46:53 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JGkS6G031461; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 08:46:32 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2JGkS1U031453; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 08:46:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 08:46:28 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060319164625763.BA5B3580008B@mwinf3112.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060319164628.009f32dc@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:46:28 +0000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Efimov state - key to multi-nuclear LENR? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2JGkPog031431 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67173 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:10 am 19/03/2006 -0500, you wrote: > > >-----Original Message----- >From: RC Macaulay > >I agree that the number 3 represents three as I agree many in the Vorts >group are the SPOTP. A 3 dimensional universe may be a stretch >considering the universe is only an image of the real.  > ><><><><><><><> > >Really, all that is needed is 2 dimensions. As in hologram, all the >information needed to create the third dimension is contained in the >two. > >Terry Or even one come to that - a string of ones and zeros. One doesn't have to use the three Cartesian coordinates to define space. one could use the locations along a big ball of wool. It may not be so convenient but is would be just as effective. In short, it all depends how you choose to look at things. "I wish that there were four of them Then I could believe in more ov 'em. 8-) Frank From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 19 10:27:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2JIREwY008301; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 10:27:14 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2JIRC9G008290; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 10:27:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 10:27:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:27:09 -0500 Message-Id: <8C81999DE3D39B4-1F4-5F41@mblkn-m08.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <2.2.32.20060319164628.009f32dc@pop.freeserve.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.20060319164628.009f32dc@pop.freeserve.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Efimov state - key to multi-nuclear LENR? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.72 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67174 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Grimer In short, it all depends how you choose to look at things. <><><><><><> Innit da trut! Ackshully, the singularity contained all. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 19 20:17:24 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2K4H1mI017472; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:17:02 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2K4Gx7r017442; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:16:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:16:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Efimov state - key to multi-nuclear LENR? Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:16:57 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <2.2.32.20060316132113.009f85a0@pop.freeserve.net> <002601c64900$3410c620$72027841@xptower> <052401c6491c$76b6ef10$6401a8c0@NuDell> <001a01c64a91$3784c800$2a027841@xptower> <3qhp12d6bv1ag1h5har4b036e1tdtivfi7@4ax.com> <000601c64b60$ef64c4a0$5f037841@xptower> In-Reply-To: <000601c64b60$ef64c4a0$5f037841@xptower> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta01ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Mon, 20 Mar 2006 04:16:57 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2K4GuiU017421 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67175 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to RC Macaulay's message of Sun, 19 Mar 2006 08:25:11 -0600: Hi, [snip] >Howdy Robin, >I agree that the number 3 represents three as I agree many in the Vorts >group are the SPOTP. A 3 dimensional universe may be a stretch considering >the universe is only an image of the real. >Richard > ..but then so is everything in it, thus bound by the same rules. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 19 20:19:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2K4JBkH018318; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:19:11 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2K4J8dg018295; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:19:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:19:08 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Efimov state - key to multi-nuclear LENR? Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:19:08 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <2.2.32.20060316132113.009f85a0@pop.freeserve.net> <002601c64900$3410c620$72027841@xptower> <052401c6491c$76b6ef10$6401a8c0@NuDell> <001a01c64a91$3784c800$2a027841@xptower> <3qhp12d6bv1ag1h5har4b036e1tdtivfi7@4ax.com> <000601c64b60$ef64c4a0$5f037841@xptower> <8C81986B99ED802-1B40-8E0C@mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C81986B99ED802-1B40-8E0C@mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta01ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Mon, 20 Mar 2006 04:19:07 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2K4J7ls018273 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67176 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to hohlrauml6d@netscape.net's message of Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:10:07 -0500: Hi, [snip] >Really, all that is needed is 2 dimensions. As in hologram, all the >information needed to create the third dimension is contained in the >two. > >Terry A Hologram does not contain all the information of a 3 D object. You still can't see the back of it, and even if you could, you're still only looking at the surface. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 19 20:21:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2K4L1it019640; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:21:01 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2K4L0Ca019614; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:21:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:21:00 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Efimov state - key to multi-nuclear LENR? Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:20:59 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <4cbs12tpgfvslhra6iok9atf61plki2gkl@4ax.com> References: <2.2.32.20060319164628.009f32dc@pop.freeserve.net> In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.20060319164628.009f32dc@pop.freeserve.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta01ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Mon, 20 Mar 2006 04:20:58 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2K4Kvj7019479 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67177 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Grimer's message of Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:46:28 +0000: Hi, [snip] >Or even one come to that - a string of ones and zeros. >One doesn't have to use the three Cartesian coordinates >to define space. one could use the locations along a big >ball of wool. It may not be so convenient but is would be >just as effective. You're ball of wool is still 3 dimensional. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 20 00:28:00 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2K8RnXg029915; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 00:27:49 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2K8RlK0029904; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 00:27:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 00:27:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060320082739288.467D0C400082@mwinf3216.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060320082741.009fb76c@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 08:27:41 +0000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Efimov state - key to multi-nuclear LENR? Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67178 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:20 pm 20/03/2006 +1100, you wrote: >In reply to Grimer's message of Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:46:28 +0000: >Hi, >[snip] >>Or even one come to that - a string of ones and zeros. >>One doesn't have to use the three Cartesian coordinates >>to define space. one could use the locations along a big >>ball of wool. It may not be so convenient but is would be >>just as effective. > >You're ball of wool is still 3 dimensional. > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk Of course it is. I'm well aware of that. 8-) And a chess board is a lot of black squares on a white ground. But it is also a lot of white squares on a black ground. Can't you see that? You should really read those marvellous books on mathematics by W W Sawyer and let some fresh air into your stuffy three dimensional prison cell. ;-) Frank Frank ("You're ball of wool" - I deny it. ) From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 20 02:15:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KAEdCn030796; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 02:14:43 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2KAEbUe030776; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 02:14:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 02:14:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=UOR9Jm4A+xIvAgJgQyCZp2TSa2ETCH5GMVnItDK47tV90O+oUoXgKRYdMvM0C0lh; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063120101431852@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: LaB6 Rods & Electronium Catalyzed D-D Reactions? Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 03:14:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940abe8db98a84cc024ef43c3d4813a6e86350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.166 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67179 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII High temperature Lanthanum Hexaboride (LaB6) in contact with D2 might go a step beyond the H2 - Tungsten used in the MAHG and effect low energy deuteron stripping (LEDS) in which case the Boron-10 in the LaB6 heater can react with the released neutron: n + B-10 ----> He-4 + Li-7 + ~ 3.2 MeV. Despite it's lower melting point LaB6 is a prolific electron emitter with it's ~ 2.3 eV work function and if there are Electronium (*e-) species in the mix, CF type D-D reactions might occur also. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
High temperature Lanthanum Hexaboride (LaB6) in contact with D2 might go
a step beyond the H2 - Tungsten  used in the MAHG and effect low energy deuteron stripping (LEDS)
in which case the Boron-10 in the LaB6 heater can react with the released neutron:
 
n + B-10 ----> He-4 + Li-7 + ~ 3.2 MeV.
 
Despite it's lower melting point LaB6 is a prolific electron emitter with it's ~ 2.3 eV work function
and if there are Electronium (*e-) species in the mix, CF type D-D reactions might occur also.
 
Fred
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 20 02:22:54 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KAMcEI001492; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 02:22:39 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2KAMa3o001460; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 02:22:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 02:22:36 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <441E816B.7030809@usfamily.net> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 04:18:19 -0600 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: schemes to cool the Earth Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67180 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Vortexians; Horace Heffner's pet theory to reverse Global Warming by orbiting aluminium dust was mentioned by the electrophysicist James McCanney on this morning's C to C AM. James contends that the space in the solar system is electrically charged. Consequently, the aluminum might have some interesting effects. He mentioned various schemes other schemes to cool off the planet. Among the more hair brained ideas were diverting an asteroid into a near pass to nudge the planet into an orbit further from the Sun. James commented that this might produce an elliptical orbit. One phenomena with a track record of inducing global cooling are volcanoes. James mentioned the Yellowstone Calderra. There is a buldging going on under a lake. James contends that this is a gas pocket. If this gas pocket were to break open under the lake, the water would drain into the magma, and bang. He believes that this might be the biggest volcanic explosion in 50 million years, he said that eastern Minnesota would be affected. He thinks that we should drain the lake. A caller mentioned the space elevator. James mentioned discharging a capacitor. --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 20 05:37:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KDbRCH008929; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 05:37:27 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2KDbPJ5008907; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 05:37:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 05:37:25 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2006-03-10) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.1 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Message-ID: <000601c64c23$62bb3480$3e037841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: References: <2.2.32.20060320082741.009fb76c@pop.freeserve.net> Subject: Re: Efimov state - key to multi-nuclear LENR? Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 07:37:08 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67181 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- > At 03:20 pm 20/03/2006 +1100, you wrote: >>In reply to Grimer's message of Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:46:28 +0000: >>Hi, >>[snip] >>>Or even one come to that - a string of ones and zeros. >>>One doesn't have to use the three Cartesian coordinates >>>to define space. one could use the locations along a big >>>ball of wool. It may not be so convenient but is would be >>>just as effective. >> >>You're ball of wool is still 3 dimensional. >> >>Regards, >> >>Robin van Spaandonk > > > Of course it is. I'm well aware of that. 8-) > And a chess board is a lot of black squares on a white > ground. But it is also a lot of white squares on a > black ground. Can't you see that? > > You should really read those marvellous books on > mathematics by W W Sawyer and let some fresh air > into your stuffy three dimensional prison cell. ;-) > > Frank > > Frank > > ("You're ball of wool" - I deny it. ) ..... Meanwhile back at the ranch, John Wayne was cleaning his pistola when it suddenly discharged flying from his hand and crashing into the mirror over the bar in Rosa's Cantina south of Laredo. While surprised the lead bullet fell in his lap, the bartender took advantage of the situation by pointing to the sign that stated " you break my mirror, I break your head". while crushing the crease in John's hat with a bung starter. WW Sawyer, sitting across the room playing poker with a deck having 12 aces ( no mathematician ever uses the minimum number of anything) , was visible shaken to witness his math being confirmed that 3 x 4 = 12 and 4+3=7. However, his poker playing partner knew somebody was cheating at cards but couldn't prove it. Surely he stated , three is a crowd and I'm outa here. The local sherriff Dubya came thru the batwing doors backed up by FEMA blazing away with both shotgun barrels firing ,ending the discussion ,amused that people can perform wonders with numbers while eating cucumbers. What does all thius mean ? It means that while everybody was sipping tequila in the cantina, the US went broke last week and nobody's got the money to buy the next round of drinks no matter how many dimensions you wind up with, call it three if you must, but it ain't gonna matter. Richard From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 20 07:53:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KFqsxv005019; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 07:52:54 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2KFqqZ0005003; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 07:52:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 07:52:52 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <005901c64c36$55ae9e90$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Subject: Ultracapacitor - Not there Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 07:52:46 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: <8q3EkB.A.DOB.U_sHEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67182 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Reference has been made recently to advances in Ultracapacitors. There have been some. Alone, however, they are still a long way from satisfactory for automotive use ... except of course, for a monster sound-system...uh... if you are a "lowrider" (aren't most vorts?). However, if designed into a batt-cap, they make a lot more sense. Here is a state of the art Maxwell module offered on eBay, mentioned today on another forum. http://tinyurl.com/ppr83 58 Farads and 15 volts, for ~$180 if you are the lone bidder - about the wholesale price. This is roughly equivalent to a watt-hour, if my morning math is not off. You would need a thousand of them to get to one kWh which is too little for an automobile and about the cost of a new Rolls (no, better make that a Bentley). IOW not even close to what is needed for you Prius. Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 20 08:40:19 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KGe4rw000822; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 08:40:09 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2KGYXdI030878; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 08:34:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 08:34:33 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=aPQ6jRRLiPLNOaeuQCxgfxhFYWlgzIrvoaPOFLys3Mo4+C+zNTlKvuS9EUuBSF6O; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063120163415292@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Ultracapacitor - Not there Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:34:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940b02d783baf3ce2ab79c31e50e6b8236e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.100 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67183 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here's a Maxwell you can use, Jones. :-) http://www.clanmaxwellusa.com/maxcars.htm "Maxwell automobiles were considered to be among the best racing machines of the era and won trophies to back up that reputation. In 1916, a Maxwell touring car set a coast-to-coast record, speeding from New Jersey to California in just ten days and sixteen hours. Another Maxwell challenged the Pennsylvania Railroad’s vaunted “Congressional Limited,” racing the train over the forty miles from Washington to Baltimore and arriving just four minutes behind." > [Original Message] > From: Jones Beene > To: vortex > Date: 3/20/2006 8:58:27 AM > Subject: Ultracapacitor - Not there > > Reference has been made recently to advances in Ultracapacitors. > > There have been some. Alone, however, they are still a long way > from satisfactory for automotive use ... except of course, for a > monster sound-system...uh... if you are a "lowrider" (aren't most > vorts?). > > However, if designed into a batt-cap, they make a lot more sense. > > > Here is a state of the art Maxwell module offered on eBay, > mentioned today on another forum. > > http://tinyurl.com/ppr83 > > 58 Farads and 15 volts, for ~$180 if you are the lone bidder - > about the wholesale price. This is roughly equivalent to a > watt-hour, if my morning math is not off. > > You would need a thousand of them to get to one kWh which is too > little for an automobile and about the cost of a new Rolls (no, > better make that a Bentley). > > IOW not even close to what is needed for you Prius. > > Jones > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 20 08:54:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KGsCl2010572; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 08:54:13 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2KGs2us010460; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 08:54:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 08:54:02 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060320165345345.5430C9400087@mwinf3209.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060320165347.00a18c70@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:53:47 +0000 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Efimov state - key to multi-nuclear LENR? Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67185 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:37 am 20/03/2006 -0600, Richard wrote: [snip} > What does all this mean ? It means that while > everybody was sipping tequila in the cantina, > the US went broke last week and nobody's got the > money to buy the next round of drinks no matter > how many dimensions you wind up with, >call it > three if you must, but it ain't gonna matter. > > Richard Funny you should say that, Richard. There's a prophecy about the world going bankrupt. Looks as though it may be coming to pass, eh! Looks as though we are about to suffer that old Chinese curse and live in exciting times. 8-) Cheers, Frank From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 20 09:00:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KH071F014095; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:00:12 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2KGpwEk009239; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 08:51:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 08:51:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:51:49 -0500 Message-Id: <8C81A55B715355C-1EB4-B004@mblkn-m07.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <005901c64c36$55ae9e90$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <005901c64c36$55ae9e90$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Ultracapacitor - Not there Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.71 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2KGprbr009172 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67184 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene This is roughly equivalent to a watt-hour, if my morning math is not off.  <><><><><><><> (C x V^2)/2 = (58 x 15 x 15)/2 = 6525 J = 1.813 Wh but I've been awake longer and have had 5 green teas. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 20 09:01:53 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KH1dIe014816; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:01:40 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2KH1bw1014791; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:01:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:01:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:01:33 -0500 Message-Id: <8C81A57137ED764-1EB4-B05C@mblkn-m07.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <005901c64c36$55ae9e90$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <005901c64c36$55ae9e90$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Ultracapacitor - Not there Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.71 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2KH1aYl014771 Resent-Message-ID: <13s4R.A.BnD.x_tHEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67186 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene Reference has been made recently to advances in Ultracapacitors.  <><><><><><><> These Honda puppies aren't so bad: http://world.honda.com/FuelCell/FCX/ultracapacitor/charging/ They're used in the FCX. There's one of those running around you're neck of the woods. Honda says it cost them $1M to build the FCX they gave to a CA family. BTW, the EEStor, (vapor?) capacitor has a stated density of 3.42 Wh/g. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 20 09:10:53 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KHA3Pe020125; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:10:32 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2KH5BLo017426; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:05:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:05:11 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:04:50 -0500 Message-Id: <8C81A57890BA634-1EB4-B07A@mblkn-m07.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <005901c64c36$55ae9e90$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C81A57137ED764-1EB4-B05C@mblkn-m07.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <8C81A57137ED764-1EB4-B05C@mblkn-m07.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Ultracapacitor - Not there Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.71 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2KH4te3017262 Resent-Message-ID: <5FihRB.A.FQE.EDuHEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67187 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: hohlrauml6d   They're used in the FCX. There's one of those running around you're neck of the woods.  <><><><><><><> your I hate it when I do that. ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 20 09:23:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KHN652028172; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:23:06 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2KHN4ue028155; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:23:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:23:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <01cb01c64c42$f26d9c20$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <005901c64c36$55ae9e90$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C81A57137ED764-1EB4-B05C@mblkn-m07.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: Ultracapacitor - Not there Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:22:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0612-0, 20/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67188 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > BTW, the EEStor, (vapor?) capacitor has a stated density of 3.42 Wh/g. 0.3 Wh/g actually Terry (52kWh / 170kg) 6 black coffees beat 5 green teas anytime ;) Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 6:01 PM Subject: Re: Ultracapacitor - Not there > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jones Beene > > Reference has been made recently to advances in Ultracapacitors. > > <><><><><><><> > > These Honda puppies aren't so bad: > > http://world.honda.com/FuelCell/FCX/ultracapacitor/charging/ > > They're used in the FCX. There's one of those running around you're > neck of the woods. > > Honda says it cost them $1M to build the FCX they gave to a CA family. > > > BTW, the EEStor, (vapor?) capacitor has a stated density of 3.42 Wh/g. > > Terry > ___________________________________________________ > Try the New Netscape Mail Today! > Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List > http://mail.netscape.com > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 20 09:27:37 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KHRJFX029982; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:27:23 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2KHRHU8029962; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:27:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:27:17 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=ci5qyql81927rgoeaSeixLgqoCPTohcsw4H04zN1plJ63+D3JB7pHE6akSZ+9tzp; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006312017277128@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: BioDiesel vs Air-Powered Pogo Sticks Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:27:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940714f726d2aeed84a270603b8a90a3657350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.120.37 Resent-Message-ID: <3KL0h.A.DUH.1XuHEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67189 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII My patent: on a pressure-actuated-injector-diesel-powered pogo stick: 3782352 January 1974 in response to the oil embargo, has been usurped by this more environmentally friendly model. I'm not hopping mad either. How many leaps per liter? :-) Fred 7,011,608 March 14 2006 http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/srchnum.htm "A pneumatic pogo stick is comprised of an elongate cylindrical housing which forms a cylinder. The housing is formed from a clear polycarbonate plastic. A top cap is attached to one end of the housing to form the top of an air chamber. A plastic piston, slidable within the cylinder, forms the bottom of the air chamber. An elongate shaft is coupled to the bottom of the piston and is moveable therewith, extending from the distal end of said housing as the piston moves within the cylinder. A bottom bracket assembly is attached to the bottom of the housing and a bushing for maintaining the lateral position of the shaft relative to the housing is attached to the bottom bracket assembly. The bushing prevents the shaft from rotating relative to the housing. User foot supports are also attached to the bottom bracket for supporting the feet of the user and handle bars are attached to the top cap for grasping with the hands of a user." ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
My patent: on a pressure-actuated-injector-diesel-powered pogo stick:  3782352    January 1974 in response to
the oil embargo, has been usurped by this more environmentally friendly model. 
I'm not hopping mad either.  How many leaps per liter? :-)
 
Fred
 
7,011,608   March 14  2006
 
 
"A pneumatic pogo stick is comprised of an elongate cylindrical housing which forms a cylinder. The housing is formed from a clear polycarbonate plastic. A top cap is attached to one end of the housing to form the top of an air chamber. A plastic piston, slidable within the cylinder, forms the bottom of the air chamber. An elongate shaft is coupled to the bottom of the piston and is moveable therewith, extending from the distal end of said housing as the piston moves within the cylinder. A bottom bracket assembly is attached to the bottom of the housing and a bushing for maintaining the lateral position of the shaft relative to the housing is attached to the bottom bracket assembly. The bushing prevents the shaft from rotating relative to the housing. User foot supports are also attached to the bottom bracket for supporting the feet of the user and handle bars are attached to the top cap for grasping with the hands of a user."
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 20 09:52:17 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KHq12G008524; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:52:02 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2KHpw9G008497; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:51:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:51:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <01d901c64c46$fa983aa0$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-22006312017277128@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: BioDiesel vs Air-Powered Pogo Sticks Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:51:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0612-0, 20/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67190 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Clever! In the same vein I have seen sorts of boots with internal combustion, Russian stuff I think, allowed to run very fast. Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 6:27 PM Subject: Re: BioDiesel vs Air-Powered Pogo Sticks > My patent: on a pressure-actuated-injector-diesel-powered pogo stick: > 3782352 January 1974 in response to > the oil embargo, has been usurped by this more environmentally friendly > model. > I'm not hopping mad either. How many leaps per liter? :-) > > Fred > > 7,011,608 March 14 2006 > > http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/srchnum.htm > > "A pneumatic pogo stick is comprised of an elongate cylindrical housing > which forms a cylinder. The housing is formed from a clear polycarbonate > plastic. A top cap is attached to one end of the housing to form the top > of an air chamber. A plastic piston, slidable within the cylinder, forms > the bottom of the air chamber. An elongate shaft is coupled to the bottom > of the piston and is moveable therewith, extending from the distal end of > said housing as the piston moves within the cylinder. A bottom bracket > assembly is attached to the bottom of the housing and a bushing for > maintaining the lateral position of the shaft relative to the housing is > attached to the bottom bracket assembly. The bushing prevents the shaft > from rotating relative to the housing. User foot supports are also > attached to the bottom bracket for supporting the feet of the user and > handle bars are attached to the top cap for grasping with the hands of a > user." From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 20 10:14:17 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KIDmXn018862; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:13:49 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2KIDlAi018850; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:13:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:13:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:13:41 -0500 Message-Id: <8C81A612723A815-1918-58E@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <005901c64c36$55ae9e90$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C81A57137ED764-1EB4-B05C@mblkn-m07.sysops.aol.com> <01cb01c64c42$f26d9c20$3800a8c0@zothan> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <01cb01c64c42$f26d9c20$3800a8c0@zothan> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Ultracapacitor - Not there Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.133 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2KIDj3d018829 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67191 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Michel Jullian   0.3 Wh/g actually Terry (52kWh / 170kg)    6 black coffees beat 5 green teas anytime ;)  <><><><><><><> I'll say! Talk about slopping my dripper! -Yrret ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 20 10:14:21 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KIE1Li018944; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:14:02 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2KIDwWh018911; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:13:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:13:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060320095814.029f93f8@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:09:12 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steve Krivit Subject: Krivit APS Talk and Presentation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <7DcxxC.A.QnE.kDvHEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67192 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: http://newenergytimes.com/Audio/2006KrivitS-APS.mp3 http://newenergytimes.com/Library/200KrivitS-APS-FusionUpdate.pdf From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 20 10:14:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KIETjg019214; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:14:29 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2KIER6X019194; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:14:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:14:27 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060320101713.02dd2960@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:17:30 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: Krivit APS Talk and Presentation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67193 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: http://newenergytimes.com/Audio/2006KrivitS-APS.mp3 http://newenergytimes.com/Library/200KrivitS-APS-FusionUpdate.pdf From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 20 10:15:37 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KIFL1U019652; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:15:22 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2KIFJCh019605; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:15:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:15:19 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:10:03 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C81A60A4FD162D-1918-567@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Mizuno Replication, Sorta Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.133 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67194 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://jlnlabs.imars.com/cfr/ppclkrs/index.htm "Pierre Clauzon, Ludwik Kowalski and Richard Slaughter made a CFR experiment in Boulder ( Colorado ) during the week of March 8th to 16th , 2006." Not by Naudin. He's just hosting the info. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 20 10:46:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KIk2WU003079; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:46:03 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2KIjv2O003027; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:45:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:45:57 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00fe01c64c4e$84a14780$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <005901c64c36$55ae9e90$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C81A55B715355C-1EB4-B004@mblkn-m07.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: Ultracapacitor - Not there Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:45:53 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67195 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: > (C x V^2)/2 = (58 x 15 x 15)/2 = 6525 J = 1.813 Wh > but I've been awake longer and have had 5 green teas. Terry OK. Let's do some rough calcs. How many kWhs are needed (in the future) for a Prius-sized vehicle with a 100 mile range? If we assume that we can reduce the Prius weight to about a ton by eliminating the gasoline engine and retaining 300 pounds of storage (baterries, ultracaps or batcaps). I suspect that you will still need about 50 kWh of total capacity, no? To keep the price under $25,000 this can cost the manufacturer no more than about $7,000 correct? ...we are still a factor of about 500 away from that possibility with the ultracaps and a factor of 50 away with lithium batteries. It can be done with lead acid now - but you would need to lug around an extra half-ton of them. OTOH ... EEStor is closer - their eagerly awaited unit weighs 400 pounds, and is said to deliver 52 kilowatt hours on a fresh charge. Jones I was looking back over some old posts - two months ago isn't that old, and it was the second time I had run across the EEStor rumors coming from Silicon Valley (where they were funded - the company is in Texas). Even so, it is clear to see why Daimler, for one, is more concerned in the short term with diesels than hybrids: This is from mid-January after the Chicago auto show: The most vocal challenge against the Prius 'exemplar' of gasoline-electric hybrid with substantial battery power is coming from DaimlerChrysler, which thinks diesel engines-sans-batteries are a better overall solution. I hope that Daimler does not know something about batteries that others are missing. In fact, this stance of theirs seems like a gigantic tactical error in light of the analysts at Kleiner Perkins VC (venture capitalists extraodinaire). No VC investor in the world has been as successful, or as admired in financial circles - from NY to London to Hong Kong to LA - as Kleiner Perkins. They are simply the top dog. To paraphrase Rob Hoff in the article cited below, John Doerr of K-P has been talking up investments in energy and environmental startups, but he has never revealed many details EXCEPT ... At a Churchill Club event yesterday in Palo Alto he and other VCs offered their annual tech predictions: High on the list is his "highest-risk, highest-reward" investment. He didn't mention it by name, but I will - EEStor. Diesels do get 20 percent to 40 percent better fuel economy than gasoline engines of the same power at little added cost - and yes they now account for more than half of all cars sold in Europe. They are claimed to be more easily adapted to biofuels, supposedly, but that is questionable. Many of the historical negatives of diesels - such as noise and cold-starts have been solved. In Europe, diesel fuel is generally cheaper - whereas here, the opposite seems to be true in recent years. However, there are now at least 100 well-funded R&D battery projects worldwide - and although the so-called "one good battery" seems to be as far away as ever to many observers, including the insiders atDaimler, I disagree with their assessment. Only a fool (or a company in a poor patent position) would pass up the chance to use a far better battery as part of the next step in hybrids. Of course - the obvious question for the next couple of years, pending that better-battery going into mass production - is "why not use a diesel in the Prius-type hybrid ?" Of course this final solution scenario depends on that elusive battery, and also to a lesser extent on a light carbon body. I have mentioned EEStor before. They are now in the news again with this blip: http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/techbeat/archives/2006/01/kleiner_perkins.html EEStor Inc. is a Cedar Park, Texas startup which has developed a breakthrough battery technology - only is sounds more like a combination of UltraCap and/or BatCap. Apparently a prototype factory is under construction and may now be ready. The company was founded in 2001 by Richard D. Weir, Carl Nelson, and Richard S. Weir, who have backgrounds as senior managers at IBM and Xerox, not in automotive nor batteries. If the prototype plant is actually being finished - as rumor has it - then this is a huge step forward. According to "Utility Federal Technology Opportunities," EEStor claims the battery will be half the cost per kilowatt-hour and one-tenth the weight of lead-acid batteries. Did you get that ? cheaper than lead-acid per kw and 1/10 the weight for the same power? Specifically, the anticipated unit weighs 400 pounds and delivers 52 kilowatt-hours on a fresh charge. Doesn't sound like that much really, but compare it to what is available. It definitely fits the minimum requirements of "one good battery" especially the 10 times less weight per kilowatt-hour. The technology is basically a parallel plate capacitor with barium titanate as the dielectric, plus "something else" - but is a ceramic-based unit. EEStor was supposed to build (in 2005) an assembly line - to produce and to vet and supply them in modest quantity - and then after they prove themselves to license the technology for volume production. No one is talking as to whether that has happened of not. Selling price would start at $3,200 for low volume and fall to $2,100 in high-volume production. - about $5+ per pound. Lead acid is less per pound ($1+) but only a tenth as energetic per pound. NiMH is heavier per unit output and four times costlier for the same power. But given the recent history of such announcements - I will be the first to add the necessary caveat: don't get your hopes up too high just yet. BTW. I am still sticking by the assertion, made a few months ago, that an even better solution for transportation, not immediate but for the time frame of perhaps 2008 and beyond - even when the "one good battery" or "bettery" will be a mass-produced reality... better even than the diesel Prius hybrid with the EEStor battery, would be a total battery powered design ... but with a small valveless Wankel as removable (and rentable) backup for longer trips. Removable? ... yes, there is no good reason the backup ICE cannot be a 100 pound genset - and an easily removable-backup ...if it is light enough; and only the Wankel is light enough. Maybe not light enough for Mom... but before longer trips ... Deiter, down at the garage, can handle it or at least he can tell Jose and Manuel how to do it in about 10 minutes or so, the same time it takes for an oil change. For longer trips, since the Wankel is so light-weight, it can be added into a small compartment that is otherwise used for storage - or it can be trailerized! It could even be a rented option - attached with a trailer hitch -which is never used by many conmutters - those who do not need to go over 60-100 miles without a recharge. When you are going on vacation, however, you might swing by the dealer and have Deiter pop in the backup Wankel, or swing by a rental company and rent it one a trailer, as the electrical and fuel connections have already come as a standard packabe, iether on your batter-powered vehicle or with hookups for the trialer. This has got to be the best overall answer - batteries for local - and trailerized (hydrogen or biofuel) engine for occassional longer trips. Half - or more of all autos could go this route. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 20 11:12:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KJCMUI016428; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:12:22 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2KJCLqU016412; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:12:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:12:21 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <020601c64c52$361bd220$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <005901c64c36$55ae9e90$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C81A55B715355C-1EB4-B004@mblkn-m07.sysops.aol.com> <00fe01c64c4e$84a14780$6401a8c0@NuDell> Subject: Re: Ultracapacitor - Not there Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:12:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0612-0, 20/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67197 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > ...a factor of 50 away with lithium batteries. A factor of 2 is more like it (Li Po is 0.185 kWh/kg, so 0.185 * 300 * 0.45 = 25 kWh) (You guys are getting all mixed up with your funny units ;) So Li is nearly ok in this respect but it wouldn't be practical to wait an hour or so at the filling station, that's the main reason why EEStor's ultracap would be a dream come true (refills in minutes). Not to mention the fact that costly Li Po would have to be replaced every few hundred refills whereas cheaper ultracap lasts a million refills (if it really works). Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jones Beene" To: Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 7:45 PM Subject: Re: Ultracapacitor - Not there > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > >> (C x V^2)/2 = (58 x 15 x 15)/2 = 6525 J = 1.813 Wh > >> but I've been awake longer and have had 5 green teas. Terry > > > OK. Let's do some rough calcs. How many kWhs are needed (in the future) > for a Prius-sized vehicle with a 100 mile range? > > If we assume that we can reduce the Prius weight to about a ton by > eliminating the gasoline engine and retaining 300 pounds of storage > (baterries, ultracaps or batcaps). I suspect that you will still need > about 50 kWh of total capacity, no? To keep the price under $25,000 this > can cost the manufacturer no more than about $7,000 correct? > > ...we are still a factor of about 500 away from that possibility with the > ultracaps and a factor of 50 away with lithium batteries. It can be done > with lead acid now - but you would need to lug around an extra half-ton of > them. > > OTOH ... EEStor is closer - their eagerly awaited unit weighs 400 pounds, > and is said to deliver 52 kilowatt hours on a fresh charge. > > Jones > > I was looking back over some old posts - two months ago isn't that old, > and it was the second time I had run across the EEStor rumors coming from > Silicon Valley (where they were funded - the company is in Texas). Even > so, it is clear to see why Daimler, for one, is more concerned in the > short term with diesels than hybrids: > > This is from mid-January after the Chicago auto show: > The most vocal challenge against the Prius 'exemplar' of gasoline-electric > hybrid with substantial battery power is coming from DaimlerChrysler, > which thinks diesel engines-sans-batteries are a better overall solution. > > I hope that Daimler does not know something about batteries that others > are missing. In fact, this stance of theirs seems like a gigantic tactical > error in light of the analysts at Kleiner Perkins VC (venture capitalists > extraodinaire). No VC investor in the world has been as successful, or as > admired in financial circles - from NY to London to Hong Kong to LA - as > Kleiner Perkins. They are simply the top dog. > > To paraphrase Rob Hoff in the article cited below, John Doerr of K-P has > been talking up investments in energy and environmental startups, but he > has never revealed many details EXCEPT ... At a Churchill Club event > yesterday in Palo Alto he and other VCs offered their annual tech > predictions: High on the list is his "highest-risk, highest-reward" > investment. > > He didn't mention it by name, but I will - EEStor. > > Diesels do get 20 percent to 40 percent better fuel economy than gasoline > engines of the same power at little added cost - and yes they now account > for more than half of all cars sold in Europe. They are claimed to be more > easily adapted to biofuels, supposedly, but that is questionable. Many of > the historical negatives of diesels - such as noise and cold-starts have > been solved. In Europe, diesel fuel is generally cheaper - whereas here, > the opposite seems to be true in recent years. > > However, there are now at least 100 well-funded R&D battery projects > worldwide - and although the so-called "one good battery" seems to be as > far away as ever to many observers, including the insiders atDaimler, I > disagree with their assessment. Only a fool (or a company in a poor patent > position) would pass up the chance to use a far better battery as part of > the next step in hybrids. Of course - the obvious question for the next > couple of years, pending that better-battery going into mass production - > is "why not use a diesel in the Prius-type hybrid ?" > > Of course this final solution scenario depends on that elusive battery, > and also to a lesser extent on a light carbon body. I have mentioned > EEStor before. They are now in the news again with this blip: > http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/techbeat/archives/2006/01/kleiner_perkins.html > > EEStor Inc. is a Cedar Park, Texas startup which has developed a > breakthrough battery technology - only is sounds more like a combination > of UltraCap and/or BatCap. Apparently a prototype factory is under > construction and may now be ready. The company was founded in 2001 by > Richard D. Weir, Carl Nelson, and Richard S. Weir, who have backgrounds as > senior managers at IBM and Xerox, not in automotive nor batteries. If the > prototype plant is actually being finished - as rumor has it - then this > is a huge step forward. > > According to "Utility Federal Technology Opportunities," EEStor claims the > battery will be half the cost per kilowatt-hour and one-tenth the weight > of lead-acid batteries. Did you get that ? cheaper than lead-acid per kw > and 1/10 the weight for the same power? Specifically, the anticipated unit > weighs 400 pounds and delivers 52 kilowatt-hours on a fresh charge. > > Doesn't sound like that much really, but compare it to what is available. > It definitely fits the minimum requirements of "one good battery" > especially the 10 times less weight per kilowatt-hour. > The technology is basically a parallel plate capacitor with barium > titanate as the dielectric, plus "something else" - but is a ceramic-based > unit. EEStor was supposed to build (in 2005) an assembly line - to produce > and to vet and supply them in modest quantity - and then after they prove > themselves to license the technology for volume production. No one is > talking as to whether that has happened of not. > > Selling price would start at $3,200 for low volume and fall to $2,100 in > high-volume production. - about $5+ per pound. Lead acid is less per pound > ($1+) but only a tenth as energetic per pound. NiMH is heavier per unit > output and four times costlier for the same power. > > But given the recent history of such announcements - I will be the first > to add the necessary caveat: don't get your hopes up too high just yet. > > BTW. I am still sticking by the assertion, made a few months ago, that an > even better solution for transportation, not immediate but for the time > frame of perhaps 2008 and beyond - even when the "one good battery" or > "bettery" will be a mass-produced reality... better even than the diesel > Prius hybrid with the EEStor battery, would be a total battery powered > design ... but with a small valveless Wankel as removable (and rentable) > backup for longer trips. > > Removable? ... yes, there is no good reason the backup ICE cannot be a 100 > pound genset - and an easily removable-backup ...if it is light enough; > and only the Wankel is light enough. Maybe not light enough for Mom... but > before longer trips ... Deiter, down at the garage, can handle it or at > least he can tell Jose and Manuel how to do it in about 10 minutes or so, > the same time it takes for an oil change. > > For longer trips, since the Wankel is so light-weight, it can be added > into a small compartment that is otherwise used for storage - or it can be > trailerized! It could even be a rented option - attached with a trailer > hitch -which is never used by many conmutters - those who do not need to > go over 60-100 miles without a recharge. > > When you are going on vacation, however, you might swing by the dealer and > have Deiter pop in the backup Wankel, or swing by a rental company and > rent it one a trailer, as the electrical and fuel connections have already > come as a standard packabe, iether on your batter-powered vehicle or with > hookups for the trialer. > > This has got to be the best overall answer - batteries for local - and > trailerized (hydrogen or biofuel) engine for occassional longer trips. > Half - or more of all autos could go this route. > > > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 20 11:17:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KJ9Z96014407; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:09:35 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2KJ9T4F014337; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:09:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:09:29 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:09:15 -0500 Message-Id: <8C81A68EA15112E-C0C-B0CA@mblkn-m11.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <005901c64c36$55ae9e90$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C81A55B715355C-1EB4-B004@mblkn-m07.sysops.aol.com> <00fe01c64c4e$84a14780$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <00fe01c64c4e$84a14780$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Ultracapacitor - Not there Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.129 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2KJ9MlR014278 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67196 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene The most vocal challenge against the Prius 'exemplar' of gasoline-electric hybrid with substantial battery power is coming from DaimlerChrysler, which thinks diesel engines-sans-batteries are a better overall solution.  <><><><><><><><> Ain't a gonna happen here. Yes, diesel fuel contains about 20% more energy than gasoline; but, using our refining techniques in place, we get three times the yield of gasoline than diesel from a barrel of crude oil. It would take a major investment in refineries to produce the diesel required: http://tinyurl.com/alkhe We better bank on the bettery bank. :-) Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 20 13:38:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KLcUk2008502; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:38:31 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2KLc7fF008202; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:38:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:38:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060320162139.035755b0@mindspring.com> Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060320161756.034c72b0@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:22:50 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Uploaded photos from Mizuno's lab Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67198 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: There has been a lot of discussion of the glow discharge experiments over at CMNS. I uploaded some photos that may be of interest to people here. See: http://www.lenr-canr.org/MizunoPhotos/ Photos from Mizuno's lab taken by Jed Rothwell, July 1999 1. Mizuno's unused cathodes. 2. Power supplies. Too big to submerge. 3. Laboratory workbench. Not pristine. 4. Close-up of anode and cathode assembly. 5. Anode-cathode assembly in cell. White object at bottom is magnetic stirrer. 6. Cell installed in blue Styrofoam shell. 7. Top of cell. Yellow object at the back is a mercury thermometer. 8. Cell undergoing glow discharge. Discharge is barely visible through small peephole. 9. Eroded cathode after a run. 10. Ohmori's unused cathode. This is a 1200 dpi direct scan of the object. Ohmori carefully roughened the surface with shards of quartz glass. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 20 13:49:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KLiiWs012334; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:44:44 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2KLie8Y012296; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:44:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:44:40 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <441F1471.6090006@pobox.com> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:45:37 -0500 From: "Stephen A. Lawrence" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20060202 Fedora/1.7.12-1.5.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Mizuno Replication, Sorta References: <8C81A60A4FD162D-1918-567@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C81A60A4FD162D-1918-567@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67199 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote: > http://jlnlabs.imars.com/cfr/ppclkrs/index.htm > > "Pierre Clauzon, Ludwik Kowalski and Richard Slaughter made a CFR > experiment in Boulder ( Colorado ) during the week of March 8th to 16th > , 2006." Hey, this sounds very good! I haven't read the earlier repro by Fauvarque et al which they reference yet; that's likely to be interesting as well. Not enough data on the page to draw totally solid "final" conclusions but the general tenor of the descriptions is very encouraging. They didn't get the result instantly (which would have been suspicious) and they seem to have tried pretty hard to eliminate spurious effects and verify that their power readings are in the right ballpark. Some of the other oddities about their results -- like, 2.4 mm rods work and 3 mm rods don't -- are also encouraging: that sort of observation could easily make sense in the context of a "real" result (as they point out, the E field may be more intense with the thinner rods) but it's not as obvious how it could be related to an artifact. > > Not by Naudin. He's just hosting the info. Naudin's entertaining but his results always seem a little too facile for my tastes -- that, plus the fact that in at least one instance he apparently added in the cooling-time energy twice, which (surprise!) pushed the apparent results 'way over unity. But unlike Naudin, these folks are definitely _not_ saying "We throw the switch and bam, over-unity, first time every time, what's the problem?" > > Terry > ___________________________________________________ > Try the New Netscape Mail Today! > Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List > http://mail.netscape.com > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 20 14:01:20 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2KM18IZ021520; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:01:09 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2KM16PN021491; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:01:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:01:06 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060320165757.035f4528@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:00:40 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Mizuno Replication, Sorta In-Reply-To: <441F1471.6090006@pobox.com> References: <8C81A60A4FD162D-1918-567@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> <441F1471.6090006@pobox.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67200 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: >Hey, this sounds very good! I would say not bad so far. >Some of the other oddities about their results -- like, 2.4 mm rods >work and 3 mm rods don't -- are also encouraging: that sort of >observation could easily make sense in the context of a "real" result . . . Yes indeed. >Naudin's entertaining but his results always seem a little too >facile for my tastes -- that, plus the fact that in at least one >instance he apparently added in the cooling-time energy twice, which >(surprise!) pushed the apparent results 'way over unity. Mizuno talked him out of that. They have spent a lot of time consulting and I gather Naudin's results are now better, although I confess I have not looked at recent results closely. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 20 19:24:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2L3ODAT022384; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:24:13 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2L3OBqC022372; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:24:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:24:11 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <441F71D4.8090605@ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:24:04 -0700 From: Edmund Storms Organization: Energy K. Systems User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Krivit APS Talk and Presentation References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060320095814.029f93f8@mail.newenergytimes.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20060320095814.029f93f8@mail.newenergytimes.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67201 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Good job, Steve. Were the questions positive and did you get any grief? Ed Steve Krivit wrote: > http://newenergytimes.com/Audio/2006KrivitS-APS.mp3 > > http://newenergytimes.com/Library/200KrivitS-APS-FusionUpdate.pdf > > From grbounce-nSnQLgUAAAA8d83Y0gp-gg9CVkJBfuys=billb=eskimo.com@googlegroups.com Sun Mar 19 20:49:42 2006 Received: from mproxy.googlegroups.com (mproxy.gmail.com [216.239.56.249]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2K4nelo028949 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:49:41 -0800 Received: by mproxy.googlegroups.com with SMTP id m8so8040825cwm for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:49:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.11.58.5 with SMTP id g5mr126593cwa; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:49:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.11.95.7 with SMTP id s7gr1531cwb; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:49:41 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: iri@erols.com X-Apparently-To: cmns@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.11.53.59 with SMTP id b59mr1272560cwa; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:49:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by mx.googlegroups.com with ESMTP id v23si3551920cwb.2006.03.19.20.49.39; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:49:40 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (googlegroups.com: 207.172.4.61 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of iri@erols.com) Received: from 66-44-103-40.s294.apx2.lnhdc.md.dialup.rcn.com (HELO iri) ([66.44.103.40]) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2006 23:49:37 -0500 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.03,109,1141621200"; d="scan'208"; a="182928112:sNHT38010304" Message-ID: <006501c64bc9$36cc34a0$01000001@iri> From: "Integrity Research Institute, Thomas Valone" To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060308160210.0342aef0@mindspring.com> Subject: CMNS: Re: Book from BARC Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 18:12:55 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Reply-To: cmns@googlegroups.com Sender: cmns@googlegroups.com Precedence: bulk X-Google-Loop: groups Mailing-List: list cmns@googlegroups.com; contact cmns-owner@googlegroups.com List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2K4nelo028949 X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends13 Status: RO X-Status: Jed, As you know, I am back at the PTO and have a contact at the Science and Tech Library there. I have let Christy and Steve know that any cold fusion books you want to donate to the PTO can be sent to me and I will hand carry them in. They will then be put into the PTO intranet system and the examiners have to find them and use the non-patent literature (NPL) references, even it they are predisposed not to do so. Where can I get a copy of this BARC book? Thanks for your help. Sincerely, Thomas Valone, PhD President Integrity Research Institute 1220 L Street NW, Suite 200-232 Washington DC 20005 www.IntegrityResearchInstitute.org 202-452-7674, 800-295-7674 FAX: 301-513-5728 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jed Rothwell" To: "CMNS" Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 4:08 PM Subject: CMNS: Book from BARC I have a book titled "BARC Studies in Cold Fusion," published by the Atomic Energy Commission, Government of India. The table of contents is below. I plan to scan and OCR most of the papers in this book -- or all the papers if I have enough gumption. I have converted the introduction and 4 papers. See the 5 most recent files here: http://lenr-canr.org/FilesByDate.htm I will probably make a "Special Collection" for this, and I may gather all of the papers together in one large document. This is a lot of work. If anyone would like to assist in proof reading, please contact me by e-mail. - Jed - - - - - - - - - - - - CONTENTS Preface Summary A: ELECTROLYTIC CELL EXPERIMENTS A 1 Cold Fusion Experiments Using a Commercial Pd­Ni Electrolyser M.S. Krishnan, S.K. Malhotra, D.G. Gaonkar, M. Srinivasan, S.K. Sikka, A. Shyam, V. Chitra, T.S. Iyengar and P.K. Iyengar A 2 Preliminary Results of Cold Fusion Studies Using a Five Module High Current Electrolytic Cell M.G. Nayar, SK. Mitra, P. Raghunathan, M.S. Krishnan, S.K. Malhotra, D.G. Gaonkar, S.K. Sikka, A Shyam and V. Chitra A3 Observation of Cold Fusion in a Ti-SS Electrolytic Cell M.S. Krishnan, S.K. Malhotra, D.G. Gaonkar, M.G. Nayar, A. Shyam and S.K. Sikka A 4 Multiplicity Distribution of Neutron Emission in Cold Fusion Experiments A. Shyam, M. Srinivasan, S.B. Degwekar and L.V. Kulkarni A 5 Search for Electrochemically Catalysed Fusion of Deuterons in Metal Lattice T.P. Radhakrishnan, R. Sundaresan, J. Arunachalam, V. Sitarama Raju, R. Kalyanaraman, S Gangadharan and P.K. Iyengar A 6 Tritium Generation during Electrolysis Experiment T.P. Radhakrishnan, R. Sundaresan, S. Gangadharan, B.K. Sen, T.S. Murthy A 7 WITHDRAWN A 8 Verification Studies in Electrochemically Induced Fusion of Deuterons in Palladium Cathodes H. Bose, L.H. Prabhu, S. Sankarnarayanan, R.S. Shetiya, N. Veeraraghavan, P.V. Joshi, T.S. Murthy, B.K. Sen and K.G.B. Sharma A 9 Tritium Analysis of Samples Obtained from Various Electrolysis Experiments at BARC T.S. Murthy, T.S. Iyengar, B.K. Sen and T.B. Joseph A 10 Material Balance of Tritium in the Electrolysis of Heavy Water M.S. Krishnan, S.K. Malhotra and S.K. Sadhukhan A11 Technique for Concentration of Helium in Electrolytic Gases for Cold Fusion Studies K. Annaji Rao PART B: D2 GAS LOADING EXPERIMENTS B 1 Search for Nuclear Fusion in Gas Phase Deuteriding of Titanium Metal P. Raj, P. Suryanarayana, A. Sathyamoorthy and T. Datta B 2 Deuteration of Machined Titanium Targets for Cold Fusion Experiments V.K. Shrikande and K.C. Mittal B 3 Autoradiography of Deuterated Ti and Pd Targets for Spatially Resolved Detection of Tritium Produced by Cold Fusion R.K. Rout, M. Srinivasan and A. Shyam B 4 Evidence for Production of Tritium via Cold Fusion Reactions in Deuterium Gas Loaded Palladium M.S. Krishnan, S.K. Malhotra, D.G. Gaonkar, V.D. Nagvenkar and H.K. Sadhukhan PART C: THEORETICAL PAPERS C 1 Materials Issues in the So-Called 'Cold Fusion' Experiments R. Chidambaram and V.C. Sahni C 2 Remarks on Cold Fusion B.A. Dasannacharya and K.R. Rao C 3 The Role of Combined Electron-Deuteron Screening in D-D Fusion in Metals S.N. Vaidya and Y.S. Mayya C 4 A Theory of Cold Nuclear Fusion in Deuterium Loaded Palladium Swapan K. Ghosh, H.K. Saidhukhan and Ashish K. Dhara C 5 Fracture Phenomena in Crystalline Solids: A Brief Review in the Context of Cold Fusion T.C. Kaushik, M. Srinivasan and A. Shyam --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CMNS" group. To post to this group, send email to cmns@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cmns-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cmns -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 20 21:08:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2L57xLY001637; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:07:59 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2L57wPJ001618; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:07:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:07:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <200603210507.k2L57vW3009927@mail2.mx.voyager.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:07:55 -0600 From: "OrionWorks" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: svj@orionworks.com Subject: Re: Krivit APS Talk and Presentation Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_65043436284234316255f79092e5dee4" X-Mailer: CoreComm Webmail X-IPAddress: 66.168.30.131 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67202 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --=_65043436284234316255f79092e5dee4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve, I second Edmund's complement. I followed along with the slide show as best as I could while listening to you talk. They didn't give you very much time to lay out your presentation. Seemed like you only got fifteen minutes or less. You could hear the kitchen timer go off twice. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks Good job, Steve. Were the questions positive and did you get any grief? > > Ed > > Steve Krivit wrote: > > > http://newenergytimes.com/Audio/2006KrivitS-APS.mp3 > > > > http://newenergytimes.com/Library/200KrivitS-APS-FusionUpdate.pdf > > > > > > --=_65043436284234316255f79092e5dee4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steve, I second Edmund's complement.

I followed along with the slide show as best as I could while listening to = you talk. They didn't give you very much time to lay out your presentation.= Seemed like you only got fifteen minutes or less. You could hear the kitch= en timer go off twice.

Regards,
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

Good job, Steve. Were the questions positive and did you get any grief?
>
> Ed
>
> Steve Krivit wrote:
>
> > http://newenergytimes.com/Audio/2006KrivitS-APS.mp3
> >
> > http://newenergytimes.com/Library/200KrivitS-APS-FusionUpdate.pdf
> >
> >
>
>
--=_65043436284234316255f79092e5dee4-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 20 23:33:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2L7X2R9018208; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:33:02 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2L7X0wU018187; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:33:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:33:00 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <441FAC13.1030604@usfamily.net> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 01:32:35 -0600 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Efimov state - key to multi-nuclear LENR? References: <2.2.32.20060316132113.009f85a0@pop.freeserve.net> <002601c64900$3410c620$72027841@xptower> <052401c6491c$76b6ef10$6401a8c0@NuDell> <001a01c64a91$3784c800$2a027841@xptower> <3qhp12d6bv1ag1h5har4b036e1tdtivfi7@4ax.com> <000601c64b60$ef64c4a0$5f037841@xptower> In-Reply-To: <000601c64b60$ef64c4a0$5f037841@xptower> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67203 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: RC Macaulay wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin van Spaandonk" > >> In reply to RC Macaulay's message of Sat, 18 Mar 2006 07:38:17 >> -0600: >> Hi Richard, >> [snip] >> >>> Howdy Robin, >>> Simple explanations of physics are never as simple as viewed. The >>> rings, >>> like the favorite magic trick using loops, may actually each be >>> shaped in >>> the figure 8 .. plus in "mobus" form. Cutting one would provide the >>> optical illusion of separating the remaining two, or even trickier, >>> the mobus strip type rings are not connected but " run" in a track. >>> When watching a " magic show", one must consider what is seen doesn't >> I like the mobus strip idea. My understanding of strings is that they vibrate, so instead of a ring, they might be more like a cylinder. Except who's to say that the vibrations go in just two directions. I've always theorized that the nucleus is a toroid, and I can picture the three rings operating together to fill in the space of the toroid. >>> necessarily mean you are seeing what is. >> >> All the smoke and mirrors don't detract from the basic facts. What >> I said stands. The number 3 is a direct consequence of living in a >> 3 dimensional universe. > There's a nonsequitor if ever I head one. John E W Keeley believed that there were three subunits that made up the atom, Dale Pond created an excellent graphic showing three spheres dancing around one another, It can be seen at http://www.svpvril.com/astro.html#animatedtriplet --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 21 09:14:34 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LHEDFM021589; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:14:14 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2LHE5ku021517; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:14:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:14:05 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=pacbell.net; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=PaLoPVnvM4n5tOVC4xtNfOQw/Q4OIF5xQaxVh65L84XoJrDkrG9/a1zVMeNqeGMLcdpH5HMTWQf7BCF40oox1LRv5x+WZBXvT6Upg5XPS9DPnx8KvFWIcNVm/uKtsOe5MgdToyVRBAwNecHyRkvP382InaPPESDeXl0YRxWxeJ8= ; Message-ID: <20060321171355.21577.qmail@web81112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:13:55 -0800 (PST) From: Jones Beene Subject: Hot Fusion: For Steve Krivit To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67204 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Steve, Let me add to the chorus: Nice presentation! FWIW in the Hot-Fusion-Not department "DAVID MCMAHON" wrote the following to the Hydrino Forum: HSG: RE: The hot fusion budget I worked on the ITER design team for more than a year. Tokamak fusion is still a long ways away. ITER itself will not begin operation until 2015 at the earliest, and it is nothing more than another experimental reactor. So even after it operates for several years, it will take the scientists and engineers some time to sort through the data and decide what to do next. Then take into account that building a real commercial reactor would require something on a scale larger than even ITER, which is a serious engineering achievment. So after ITER settles in and assuming the required developments in materials science take place, then people know what to do to construct a commercial reactor. Then its another ten years of design and five years of construction. Assuming a commercial reactor could follow ITER directly, a dubious assumption, we might see one in the year 2035. So unless there is an unexpected breakthrough from another angle, I don't see tokamak fusion being made practical in the lifetime of many people who belong in this study group. In my opinion fusion doesn't offer much short term hope, my bet is we will run out of oil before a practical fusion reactor can be constructed. Of course unexpected breakthroughs always happen. Maybe someone will figure out how to build a commercially viable tokamak reactor on a scale which is smaller than ITER, which is colossal. The large size of ITER is part of the problem-difficult, expensive and time consuming to build. >Reply to message From: "Michael Flora" >Since the subject of hot fusion has been brought up, and the point has beenmade that progress has been very slow, I would like to post the following(from the Wiki article "Joint European Torus"): Clearly tokamak magnetic fusion is something we will have in a few years. HA ! David shot that Wiki BS down in short order. Sometimes WIKI is the epitome of GIGO - garbage-in, garbage-out... depends a lot on the objectivity of the writer. _______________________________________________________________ Copyright 2006 © Yahoo! Inc. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 21 09:53:02 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LHqiLS010066; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:52:44 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2LHqh1h010044; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:52:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:52:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <44203D46.70203@usfamily.net> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:52:06 -0600 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Efimov state - key to multi-nuclear LENR? References: <2.2.32.20060316132113.009f85a0@pop.freeserve.net> <002601c64900$3410c620$72027841@xptower> <052401c6491c$76b6ef10$6401a8c0@NuDell> <001a01c64a91$3784c800$2a027841@xptower> <3qhp12d6bv1ag1h5har4b036e1tdtivfi7@4ax.com> <000601c64b60$ef64c4a0$5f037841@xptower> In-Reply-To: <000601c64b60$ef64c4a0$5f037841@xptower> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67205 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: RC Macaulay wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin van Spaandonk" > >> In reply to RC Macaulay's message of Sat, 18 Mar 2006 07:38:17 >> -0600: >> Hi Richard, >> [snip] >> >>> Howdy Robin, >>> Simple explanations of physics are never as simple as viewed. The >>> rings, >>> like the favorite magic trick using loops, may actually each be >>> shaped in >>> the figure 8 .. plus in "mobus" form. Cutting one would provide the >>> optical illusion of separating the remaining two, or even trickier, >>> the mobus strip type rings are not connected but " run" in a track. >>> When watching a " magic show", one must consider what is seen doesn't >> I like the mobus strip idea. My understanding of strings is that they vibrate, so instead of a ring, they might be more like a cylinder. Except who's to say that the vibrations go in just two directions. I've always theorized that the nucleus is a toroid, and I can picture the three rings operating together to fill in the space of the toroid. >>> necessarily mean you are seeing what is. >> >> All the smoke and mirrors don't detract from the basic facts. What >> I said stands. The number 3 is a direct consequence of living in a >> 3 dimensional universe. > There's a nonsequitor if ever I head one. John E W Keeley believed that there were three subunits that made up the atom, www.svpvril.com . --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 21 10:00:46 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LI0RVA014264; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:00:28 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2LI0Mqg014225; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:00:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:00:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <44203F1A.7090106@usfamily.net> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:59:54 -0600 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: BioDiesel vs Air-Powered Pogo Sticks References: <410-22006312017277128@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <410-22006312017277128@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <3EWNn.A.NeD.28DIEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67207 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick Sparber wrote: > My patent: on a pressure-actuated-injector-diesel-powered pogo stick: > *3782352* > > January 1974 in response to > the oil embargo, has been usurped by this more environmentally > friendly model. > I'm not hopping mad either. How many leaps per liter? :-) Sounds like fun, did you ever build a working model? I'm wondering how high it would go. But I think that you would need a teeth guard. --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 21 10:00:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LI0BSk014080; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:00:40 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2LHxQIE013748; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:59:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 09:59:26 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=EbCk1vZhIHskIdQIsNl2916L0WOf3nH5zXOEpGVUAUVd0bJ+Snw3Iove43kyAnSS; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200632211759229@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Ultracapacitor - Not there Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:59:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9400dc19eb1499b2ccc2a7a1c45399fe999350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.165.92 Resent-Message-ID: <1BGzm.A.wWD.-7DIEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67206 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Jones Beene wrote: > > According to "Utility Federal Technology Opportunities," EEStor > claims the battery will be half the cost per kilowatt-hour and one-tenth the weight > of lead-acid batteries. Did you get that ? cheaper than lead-acid per kw and > 1/10 the weight for the same power? Specifically, the anticipated > unit weighs 400 pounds and delivers 52 kilowatt-hours > on a fresh charge. > If 330 lbs (150 kg) of that 400 lb weight is Barium Titanate (molecular wt 233) you would have to "store" 3.0 eV per "oriented molecule" to achieve 52 kw-hr storage. 16 watt-hrs/lb is tops for lead-acid batteries. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Jones Beene wrote:
>
> According to "Utility Federal Technology Opportunities," EEStor
> claims the battery will be half the cost per kilowatt-hour and one-tenth the weight
> of lead-acid batteries. Did you get that ? cheaper than lead-acid per kw and
> 1/10 the weight for the same power? Specifically, the anticipated
> unit weighs 400 pounds and delivers 52 kilowatt-hours
> on a fresh charge.
>
If 330 lbs (150 kg) of that 400 lb weight is Barium Titanate (molecular wt 233) you would
have to "store" 3.0 eV per "oriented molecule" to achieve 52 kw-hr storage.
 
16 watt-hrs/lb is tops for lead-acid batteries.
 
Fred
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 21 12:18:55 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LKIiN3013938; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:18:44 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2LKIb6k013801; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:18:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:18:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=K7q1IXDpGKISiJQbGnpfzwgHmmbjSw8qfZuCV49RXQ7vqrYoYN3uo9zxR/JKHXSE; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063221201812545@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Ultracapacitor - Not there Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:18:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940f2c2b4d5c5a9162914034048421847ca350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.204 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67208 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII http://www.azonano.com/news.asp?newsID=772 "Altair Nanotechnologies, Inc. announced today the initial shipment of battery electrode nanomaterials to Advanced Battery Technologies, Inc. (OTCBB: ABAT) that will be used in the manufacture and testing of prototype polymer lithium batteries. Advanced Battery designs and markets Polymer-Lithium-Ion (PLI) batteries that are manufactured in its subsidiary, based in Harbin, China. Altair previously announced a partnering agreement with ABAT on April 4, 2005. Altair and Advanced Battery have formed a partnership and agreed to test Altair's electrode materials for use in new, higher performance Polymer-Lithium-Ion (PLI) batteries to be manufactured by Advanced Battery for sale in China. These new batteries are being tested by the partnership to meet an emerging need for higher power, lighter weight and more rapidly recharging batteries to power a new generation of higher performance, electrically powered vehicles, including automobiles and buses. " ""Advanced Battery's current Polymer-Lithium-Ion (PLI) battery permits a top speed of 75 mph for cars and 62.5 mph for buses and a traveling distance of approximately 200 miles per charge for cars and 150 miles for buses", commented Mr. Zhiguo Fu, Chairman of Advanced Battery. " ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 3/21/2006 11:03:52 AM Subject: Re: Ultracapacitor - Not there Jones Beene wrote: > > According to "Utility Federal Technology Opportunities," EEStor > claims the battery will be half the cost per kilowatt-hour and one-tenth the weight > of lead-acid batteries. Did you get that ? cheaper than lead-acid per kw and > 1/10 the weight for the same power? Specifically, the anticipated > unit weighs 400 pounds and delivers 52 kilowatt-hours > on a fresh charge. > If 330 lbs (150 kg) of that 400 lb weight is Barium Titanate (molecular wt 233) you would have to "store" 3.0 eV per "oriented molecule" to achieve 52 kw-hr storage. 16 watt-hrs/lb is tops for lead-acid batteries. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
 
"Altair Nanotechnologies, Inc. announced today the initial shipment of battery electrode nanomaterials to Advanced Battery Technologies, Inc. (OTCBB: ABAT) that will be used in the manufacture and testing of prototype polymer lithium batteries. Advanced Battery designs and markets Polymer-Lithium-Ion (PLI) batteries that are manufactured in its subsidiary, based in Harbin, China. Altair previously announced a partnering agreement with ABAT on April 4, 2005.

Altair and Advanced Battery have formed a partnership and agreed to test Altair's electrode materials for use in new, higher performance Polymer-Lithium-Ion (PLI) batteries to be manufactured by Advanced Battery for sale in China. These new batteries are being tested by the partnership to meet an emerging need for higher power, lighter weight and more rapidly recharging batteries to power a new generation of higher performance, electrically powered vehicles, including automobiles and buses. "

""Advanced Battery's current Polymer-Lithium-Ion (PLI) battery permits a top speed of 75 mph for cars and 62.5 mph for buses and a traveling distance of approximately 200 miles per charge for cars and 150 miles for buses", commented Mr. Zhiguo Fu, Chairman of Advanced Battery. "
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 3/21/2006 11:03:52 AM
Subject: Re: Ultracapacitor - Not there

Jones Beene wrote:
>
> According to "Utility Federal Technology Opportunities," EEStor
> claims the battery will be half the cost per kilowatt-hour and one-tenth the weight
> of lead-acid batteries. Did you get that ? cheaper than lead-acid per kw and
> 1/10 the weight for the same power? Specifically, the anticipated
> unit weighs 400 pounds and delivers 52 kilowatt-hours
> on a fresh charge.
>
If 330 lbs (150 kg) of that 400 lb weight is Barium Titanate (molecular wt 233) you would
have to "store" 3.0 eV per "oriented molecule" to achieve 52 kw-hr storage.
 
16 watt-hrs/lb is tops for lead-acid batteries.
 
Fred
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 21 13:46:43 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LLkWCA018512; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:46:33 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2LLkTO7018473; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:46:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:46:29 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060321131526.02c27e40@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 13:48:30 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: Re: Krivit APS Talk and Presentation In-Reply-To: <441F71D4.8090605@ix.netcom.com> References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060320095814.029f93f8@mail.newenergytimes.com> <441F71D4.8090605@ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67209 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:24 PM 3/20/2006, you wrote: >Good job, Steve. Thanks Ed. >Were the questions positive and did you get any grief? This version http://newenergytimes.com/Audio/2006KrivitS-APS-FULL.mp3 (lightly hidden) has the questions at the end. No good questions, and no grief given by the audience. However - have a listen and tell me what you hear during the Q&A. There was about 180 people in the room, about 15 standing in the back. About 10 got up from their seats after my talk and left. The exodus continued gradually through the next few presentations. Many people told me that didn't have a clue about the other sessions - too complex for the audience. Only about 15 people (all the same) had ever read a single cf paper, been to a single cf conference or session. The allotted time was something like 8 or 12 minutes. Only long enough to do a very quick presentation. I was given an extra 4 minutes and tried to cram even too much stuff in during the given time. s From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 21 14:31:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2LMV56k004896; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:31:06 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2LMV4iI004866; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:31:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:31:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Sender:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=VKvx7yFapHZ3IetYsP89aD6k5LD9FGrViRSTLgtvAFNgY+hGpmmEElxuf6gDGXwX/DF5Ifwow5Xu3JbTvKy5tqRoxO4JRldm5ze4fzGxsO/+PNXTLY9oQGG55yAkz4bxHRfl5WokDTSsdou/uyvhCbjT+ooJEj7oqzqlcpoeDyo= ; Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.1.20060321171657.00ba6fd8@pop> X-Sender: philip.winestone@pop X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.1.1 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:23:05 -0500 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Philip Winestone Subject: Re: a meteorologist speaks on climate change In-Reply-To: References: <4416500C.3020602@usfamily.net> <001601c64760$447b1f70$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <001101c64772$fb146720$6701a8c0@msns.flt.ptd.net> <002201c64828$77b43bb0$0201a8c0@nixlaptop> <7.0.1.0.2.20060315093638.0376d6c0@mindspring.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060315143108.0374ecb8@mindspring.com> <6.1.1.1.1.20060315145536.01d54fd8@pop> <7.0.1.0.2.20060315161406.0374ecb8@mindspring.com> <6.1.1.1.1.20060315163209.01d7af90@pop> <7.0.1.0.2.20060315170143.0376d6c0@mindspring.com> <6.1.1.1.1.20060315222646.01d59bb0@pop> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67210 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends5 Status: O X-Status: Goodness!!! I didn't see this one (or your previous one). What I'm saying is that you can put all these "facts" down on as many dead trees as you like, but ultimately I have to rely on these "facts" being... well... facts. Problem with playing with facts, is that they're great for spouting off about, but nobody seems to be able to DO anything about them, including categorizing them and suggesting practical methods for implementing them. I'm not blaming anyone, but having been in the alternate energy engineering business, I know the "I've got a mouth and a good idea" situation only too well. Look around you at the number of "critics" on every subject, and ask yourself (or better still, ask any of them) if they can take their esteemed intellects one step past their mouths and into some form of rational action. Philip. At 09:26 PM 3/15/2006 -0900, you wrote: >On Mar 15, 2006, at 6:36 PM, Philip Winestone wrote: > >>...I really can't be bothered arguing how many PV modules can dance >>on the head of a pin. > >Yes, all those facts can be so annoying. > >Horace Heffner From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 21 23:13:18 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M7D0MC021672; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:13:01 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2M7Cv2e021638; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:12:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:12:57 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Efimov state - key to multi-nuclear LENR? Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:12:50 +1100 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <2.2.32.20060316132113.009f85a0@pop.freeserve.net> <002601c64900$3410c620$72027841@xptower> <052401c6491c$76b6ef10$6401a8c0@NuDell> <001a01c64a91$3784c800$2a027841@xptower> <3qhp12d6bv1ag1h5har4b036e1tdtivfi7@4ax.com> <000601c64b60$ef64c4a0$5f037841@xptower> <441FAC13.1030604@usfamily.net> In-Reply-To: <441FAC13.1030604@usfamily.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta02ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:12:51 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2M7Cqg2021578 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67211 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to thomas malloy's message of Tue, 21 Mar 2006 01:32:35 -0600: Hi, [snip] >>> All the smoke and mirrors don't detract from the basic facts. What >>> I said stands. The number 3 is a direct consequence of living in a >>> 3 dimensional universe. >> >There's a nonsequitor if ever I head one. Not if you had been following the thread. >John E W Keeley believed that >there were three subunits that made up the atom, Dale Pond created an >excellent graphic showing three spheres dancing around one another, It >can be seen at http://www.svpvril.com/astro.html#animatedtriplet ...and both chose the number three because we live in a 3 dimensional universe. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 00:22:04 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M8LrCI013363; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 00:21:54 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2M8Lq89013350; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 00:21:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 00:21:52 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=r4Ne12B355EZszYrdKmz/OGOTTjLV3V3lll9KsjcFtEv3AlHW4eGG22vU6OhHXMa; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006332282141297@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Future batteries Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:21:41 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940d65b874a6af44c19f5f4977e4be77596350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.50 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67212 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII http://www.off-grid.net/common/mailme.php?id=538 "It is an early prototype of his SlimCell battery and powerful enough to energize a transistor radio. The SlimCell does away with Volta’s 200-year-old liquid chemistry by using flexible and extremely thin solid laminates that can be manufactured cheaply, rolled up into a tube or molded right into a handheld device. “We have to change the image of a battery. Stop thinking soda cans. Start thinking potato-chip bags,” says Sadoway. Solid-state, paper-thin batteries have been an unrealized goal of industry for a decade. Chemists at firms such as 3M struggled to find a solid that conducts ions with the ease of a liquid or gel. In the mid-1990s Sadoway, a Canadian metallurgist who has spent his entire career teaching at MIT, was searching with his students for ways to reduce air pollution in Los Angeles. One idea was electric cars, but a lithium ion battery of the size needed doesn’t make any sense, as it would require its own cooling system and wouldn’t work well in extreme climates. Solid electrolytes, as elusive as they seemed, would be far lighter, safer and more versatile. He pitched the problem to MIT materials scientist Anne Mayes, who suggested a recipe: two polymers, polyoxyethylene and polylauryl methacrylate, woven together like strands of cooked spaghetti and brushed with a highly conductive goop called polyethylene oxide. The result is a dry electrolyte that is about the thickness of cellophane but could ultimately be made as thin as one micron, a thousandth of a millimeter. Prototypes of Sadoway’s SlimCell can deliver 300 watt-hours per kilogram, twice the energy density of traditional lithium ion batteries." ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
 
"It is an early prototype of his SlimCell battery and powerful enough to energize a transistor radio. The SlimCell does away with Volta’s 200-year-old liquid chemistry by using flexible and extremely thin solid laminates that can be manufactured cheaply, rolled up into a tube or molded right into a handheld device. “We have to change the image of a battery. Stop thinking soda cans. Start thinking potato-chip bags,” says Sadoway. Solid-state, paper-thin batteries have been an unrealized goal of industry for a decade. Chemists at firms such as 3M struggled to find a solid that conducts ions with the ease of a liquid or gel. In the mid-1990s Sadoway, a Canadian metallurgist who has spent his entire career teaching at MIT, was searching with his students for ways to reduce air pollution in Los Angeles. One idea was electric cars, but a lithium ion battery of the size needed doesn’t make any sense, as it would require its own cooling system and wouldn’t work well in extreme climates. Solid electrolytes, as elusive as they seemed, would be far lighter, safer and more versatile. He pitched the problem to MIT materials scientist Anne Mayes, who suggested a recipe: two polymers, polyoxyethylene and polylauryl methacrylate, woven together like strands of cooked spaghetti and brushed with a highly conductive goop called polyethylene oxide. The result is a dry electrolyte that is about the thickness of cellophane but could ultimately be made as thin as one micron, a thousandth of a millimeter. Prototypes of Sadoway’s SlimCell can deliver 300 watt-hours per kilogram, twice the energy density of traditional lithium ion batteries."
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 00:35:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2M8ZIoJ018314; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 00:35:19 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2M8ZDiF018265; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 00:35:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 00:35:13 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=lgvFZJc4Y3AKbRNkSZQWcVa3r37n1ugbF0j+Nt4x4o4IE3FMQmpAztp0GKanQOVy; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200633228358608@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Efimov state - key to multi-nuclear LENR? Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:35:08 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940c261ec5b6a3d4e972a670542d1a0b0f5350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.50 Resent-Message-ID: <2eanMB.A.VdE.BxQIEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67213 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Robin wrote: > > ...and both chose the number three because we live in a 3 > dimensional universe. > And we live on the 3rd planet from the sun (between three jovian planets) northwest of the Bermuda Triangle. Regards Fred President & CEO, Third Planet Industries InK. :-) > Regards, > Robin van Spaandonk ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Robin wrote:
>
> ...and both chose the number three because we live in a 3
> dimensional universe.
>
And we live on the 3rd planet from the sun (between three jovian planets)
northwest of the Bermuda Triangle.
 
Regards
 
Fred   President & CEO, Third Planet Industries InK.  :-)


> Regards,

> Robin van Spaandonk
 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 02:54:40 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MAsIAS031462; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 02:54:19 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2MAsHtd031448; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 02:54:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 02:54:17 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <03f701c64d9e$f91ac310$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-22006332282141297@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Future batteries Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:54:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0612-0, 20/03/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67214 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > 300 watt-hours per kilogram, twice the energy density of traditional > lithium ion batteries. Ok this makes the range acceptable (same as claimed by EEStor anyway). They also claim nearly acceptable lifetime (thousands of recharges vs 500), but there is no indication that we won't have to wait an hour or so at the filling station. Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 9:21 AM Subject: Re: Future batteries > http://www.off-grid.net/common/mailme.php?id=538 > > "It is an early prototype of his SlimCell battery and powerful enough to > energize a transistor radio. The SlimCell does away with Volta's > 200-year-old liquid chemistry by using flexible and extremely thin solid > laminates that can be manufactured cheaply, rolled up into a tube or > molded right into a handheld device. "We have to change the image of a > battery. Stop thinking soda cans. Start thinking potato-chip bags," says > Sadoway. Solid-state, paper-thin batteries have been an unrealized goal of > industry for a decade. Chemists at firms such as 3M struggled to find a > solid that conducts ions with the ease of a liquid or gel. In the > mid-1990s Sadoway, a Canadian metallurgist who has spent his entire career > teaching at MIT, was searching with his students for ways to reduce air > pollution in Los Angeles. One idea was electric cars, but a lithium ion > battery of the size needed doesn't make any sense, as it would require its > own cooling system and wouldn't work well in extreme clima! > tes. Solid electrolytes, as elusive as they seemed, would be far lighter, > safer and more versatile. He pitched the problem to MIT materials > scientist Anne Mayes, who suggested a recipe: two polymers, > polyoxyethylene and polylauryl methacrylate, woven together like strands > of cooked spaghetti and brushed with a highly conductive goop called > polyethylene oxide. The result is a dry electrolyte that is about the > thickness of cellophane but could ultimately be made as thin as one > micron, a thousandth of a millimeter. Prototypes of Sadoway's SlimCell can > deliver 300 watt-hours per kilogram, twice the energy density of > traditional lithium ion batteries." From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 05:06:46 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MD6Xlr026751; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 05:06:34 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2MD6VQm026715; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 05:06:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 05:06:31 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=k03U2vlI8D0KamY6lg+XQ+3URxSfVCWWJ0Qppt6RY9y6pjpDRh/r4iUKf4yMQ+4f; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006332213618223@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Future batteries Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 06:06:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94027b2705af961d06b37555720d6fc544b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.10 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67215 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michel Jullian wrote: > > > 300 watt-hours per kilogram, twice the energy density of traditional > > lithium ion batteries. > > Ok this makes the range acceptable (same as claimed by EEStor anyway). They > also claim nearly acceptable lifetime (thousands of recharges vs 500), but > there is no indication that we won't have to wait an hour or so at the > filling station. Right, about 10 times the capability of lead-acid. For off-grid home-use storage from Solar PV, Wind, or MicroHydro tec., they have a lot of potenial. :-) This article that separates Electrostatic Capacitors from Energy Storage Capacitors is enlightening: http://electrochem.cwru.edu/ed/encycl/art-c03-elchem-cap.htm "Electrochemical capacitors are a special kind of capacitor based on charging and discharging the interfaces of high specific-area materials such as porous carbon materials or porous oxides of some metals. They can store electric charge and corresponding energy at high densities in an highly reversible way, as does a regular capacitor, and hence can be operated at specific power densities (in watts/kg) substantially higher than can most batteries. Their capacitance for a given size of the device is thus much higher, by a factor of 10,000 or so, than those achievable with regular capacitors. For this reason proprietary names such as "Supercapacitors" or "Ultracapacitors" have been coined to describe their performance." Fred > > Michel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frederick Sparber" > To: "vortex-l" > Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 9:21 AM > Subject: Re: Future batteries > > > > http://www.off-grid.net/common/mailme.php?id=538 > > > > "It is an early prototype of his SlimCell battery and powerful enough to > > energize a transistor radio. The SlimCell does away with Volta's > > 200-year-old liquid chemistry by using flexible and extremely thin solid > > laminates that can be manufactured cheaply, rolled up into a tube or > > molded right into a handheld device. "We have to change the image of a > > battery. Stop thinking soda cans. Start thinking potato-chip bags," says > > Sadoway. Solid-state, paper-thin batteries have been an unrealized goal of > > industry for a decade. Chemists at firms such as 3M struggled to find a > > solid that conducts ions with the ease of a liquid or gel. In the > > mid-1990s Sadoway, a Canadian metallurgist who has spent his entire career > > teaching at MIT, was searching with his students for ways to reduce air > > pollution in Los Angeles. One idea was electric cars, but a lithium ion > > battery of the size needed doesn't make any sense, as it would require its > > own cooling system and wouldn't work well in extreme clima! > > tes. Solid electrolytes, as elusive as they seemed, would be far lighter, > > safer and more versatile. He pitched the problem to MIT materials > > scientist Anne Mayes, who suggested a recipe: two polymers, > > polyoxyethylene and polylauryl methacrylate, woven together like strands > > of cooked spaghetti and brushed with a highly conductive goop called > > polyethylene oxide. The result is a dry electrolyte that is about the > > thickness of cellophane but could ultimately be made as thin as one > > micron, a thousandth of a millimeter. Prototypes of Sadoway's SlimCell can > > deliver 300 watt-hours per kilogram, twice the energy density of > > traditional lithium ion batteries." > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 05:54:55 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MDsZTg017161; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 05:54:35 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2MDsX8k017137; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 05:54:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 05:54:33 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Ph1YlPJyrrSzAX5FIPC0Xv8AWe+TTrHexJQwBZQg1Fjex6/7NslxhLQiTHU8idlp; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063322135424443@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: The Capattery Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 06:54:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9407e309af84571dd05c44085df65a5c57f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.10 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67216 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII How Many to run your Scooter? http://www.evanscap.com/morecap.html "The Capattery is a new high-reliability double layer capacitor. It is an ideal standby power source in memory back-up and bridge power applications. It has more than twenty times the capacitance density of conventional capacitors, essentially unlimited cycle life, and stable operating per formance throughout the -55° to +85°C tempera ture range. The high capacitance of the Capattery results from an electrostatic charge stored at the interface between activated carbon and an aqueous electrolyte in the so-called electric double layer. Long life is possible because the energy storage is physical rather than chemical in nature and because the component uses an innovative welded package. These features also provide stable performance during extremely high shock loading. The Capattery improves upon previous double layer capacitors because of its patented Permselective valve, which allows the escape of CO2 generated by all double layer capacitors, while it maintains its sealed construction. Being a capacitor, the Capattery requires a very simple charging circuit. It is leakproof, exhibits no memory effect, and can deliver currents from microamps to amps" ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
How Many to run your Scooter?
 
 
"The Capattery is a new high-reliability double layer capacitor. It is an ideal standby power source in memory back-up and bridge power applications.
It has more than twenty times the capacitance density of conventional capacitors, essentially unlimited cycle life, and stable operating per formance throughout the -55° to +85°C tempera ture range.
The high capacitance of the Capattery results from an electrostatic charge stored at the interface between activated carbon and an aqueous electrolyte in the so-called electric double layer.
Long life is possible because the energy storage is physical rather than chemical in nature and because the component uses an innovative welded package. These features also provide stable performance during extremely high shock loading.
The Capattery improves upon previous double layer capacitors because of its patented Permselective valve, which allows the escape of CO2 generated by all double layer capacitors, while it maintains its sealed construction.
Being a capacitor, the Capattery requires a very simple charging circuit. It is leakproof, exhibits no memory effect, and can deliver currents from microamps to amps"
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 07:19:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MFItUT029399; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:18:55 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2MFIrQm029383; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:18:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:18:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Sender: jack@mail3.centurytel.net Message-ID: <442176F5.2832B478@centurytel.net> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:10:29 +0000 From: "Taylor J. Smith" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-Caldera (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Efimov state - key to multi-nuclear LENR? References: <2.2.32.20060316132113.009f85a0@pop.freeserve.net> <002601c64900$3410c620$72027841@xptower> <052401c6491c$76b6ef10$6401a8c0@NuDell> <001a01c64a91$3784c800$2a027841@xptower> <3qhp12d6bv1ag1h5har4b036e1tdtivfi7@4ax.com> <000601c64b60$ef64c4a0$5f037841@xptower> <441FAC13.1030604@usfamily.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="xr" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="xr" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67217 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: thomas malloy wrote: John E W Keeley believed that there were three subunits that made up the atom, Dale Pond created an excellent graphic showing three spheres dancing around one another, It can be seen at http://www.svpvril.com/astro.html#animatedtriplet Robin van Spaandonk wrote: ...and both chose the number three because we live in a 3 dimensional universe. Hi All, Yes, and there is no fourth physical dimension. Time is just a series of events that we keep track of. Of course, Time can be treated as a dimension for mathematical convenience. A corollary is that there is no physical space-time. I can't prove that there are no more than 3 physical dimensions, but I also can't prove that no more than 30 angels can stand on the head of a pin at the same time. Jack Smith From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 07:44:00 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MFhkNv011291; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:43:46 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2MFhiRj011266; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:43:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:43:44 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=jtIod9lALvm4knn4AC+U81zMVW7SPZAUsoj1RUP5EM0VGgmp0L7wfhzy7m9R4/mZ; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063322154336454@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: The Double-Layer, Auoto-Ionization of Water & Over-Unity Effects? Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:43:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9404effa6ded8eed0f0dacd49b90288b204350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.165.164 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67218 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Cold Fusion aside, is the double-layer playing a role in Over-Unity Effects in Electrolysis and ? Mizuno's tungsten arc in water-K2CO3 too? Bockris had a hand in the later model. http://electrochem.cwru.edu/ed/encycl/art-c03-elchem-cap.htm ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Cold Fusion aside, is the double-layer playing a role in Over-Unity Effects in Electrolysis
and ?
 
Mizuno's tungsten arc in water-K2CO3 too?
 
Bockris had a hand in the later model.
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 07:49:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MFnXmh014485; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:49:34 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2MFnW0V014461; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:49:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:49:32 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=pacbell.net; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=AnK+irV5Gf5CVKVSWdHZNMSbNvl4CAmcFY6ic9EvFKFA9QbWzE4X04evlrFTDKpSiwLKtpgVarQAkxcVTcSQuzSyVikKUb/BHdE+ZoEzFroaYk/pP9ESTDb4O3wZqPKtUZasKz4SHIDN+zUmNZ8Vk+bE2Y1Dd/0qgD78spKyZ5s= ; Message-ID: <20060322154902.89128.qmail@web81101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:49:02 -0800 (PST) From: Jones Beene Subject: Re: The Capattery To: fjsparber@earthlink.net, vortex-l In-Reply-To: <410-220063322135424443@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67219 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred, Don't you find it amusing that any in any new-but-old technology, the proponents try to diferentiate themselves on the slimest of variations. The free market mantra seems to be, "If you cannot wow them with novelty, then confuse them with sublety". In the case of Evans, I'm not too sure how they are very different from any old electrolyitic capacitor, once you wade through the rhetoric. Here is the claim: The high capacitance of the Capattery results from an electrostatic charge stored at the interface between activated carbon and an aqueous electrolyte in the so-called electric double layer. "The Capattery improves upon previous double layer capacitors because of its patented Permselective valve, which allows the escape of CO2 generated by all double layer capacitors, while it maintains its sealed construction." OK, fine. But that is a minor (even trivial) improvement of an electolytic capacitor and not the chacteristic of a true bat-cap, which will also have a double layer but requires a solid electrolyte. This is a bit more than a fine distinction because solid electrolytes in the form of permeable and selective membranes are also the distinguishing characteristic between the FC (fuel cell) and the battery. IOW the FC is itself a type of battery (not just semantics), and indeed the very first really high powered battery, which we have alluded to before on vortex - the famous Grove cell - was more like a fuel cell than a battery. There is a great site online for the Grove battery, but I don't have it handy. IMHO the term: "bat-cap" if it is to have real meaning and not just be a marketing gimick - should be distinguished from the electrolytic capacitor by the necessity of a solid electrolyte plus a mobile postive-ion charge carrier. This confuses the situation since then (semanticly) there must be another electrolyte in the form of a "mobile" charge carrier, in addition to the membrane (which is often called: the "solid electroyte") in order to "feed" this third item - the solid electrolyte - and it should NOT be aqueous for the reason above. There are few good choices for the "mobile" charge carrier - the positive ion which can go though the solid electrolyte membrane ... and hydrogen, sodium, potassium and other alkali metals are really the only good choices. If it is hydrogen, you call it a fuel cell. Otherwise: To go 1) "gas-less" (no risk of explosion due to volatility) 2) cheap 3) available technology NOW - that leaves leavels only sodium. All of these details were recognized about 150 years ago, and just now are all the pieces coming together, and still ...so far as I know, there is no group or lab working on what should (in theory) be the "ideal" solution: which is something close to the sodium/solid electrolyte/activated-carbon-cap combination which I am calling the batt-cap (with the possible exception of EEStor, which has been "mum" about whatever else it is that they have added to the barium titanate based capacitor - but I have been assured that this product (EEStor) is not "just" a capacitor, nor an electroyltic capacitor, nor a fuel cell - so what does that leave? Are these fine distinction being too picky? Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 08:11:01 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MGAeBM024446; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:10:40 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2MGAdvl024427; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:10:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:10:39 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060322105942.036f8af8@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:10:26 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: The Capattery In-Reply-To: <20060322154902.89128.qmail@web81101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <410-220063322135424443@earthlink.net> <20060322154902.89128.qmail@web81101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67220 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones Beene wrote: >Don't you find it amusing that any in any new-but-old >technology, the proponents try to diferentiate >themselves on the slimest of variations. > >The free market mantra seems to be, "If you cannot wow >them with novelty, then confuse them with sublety". That happens a lot! Occasionally, however, you see the opposite marketing strategy, especially when the target buyers are ordinary members of the public rather than engineers. Companies try to disguise innovation and make it look like a minor incremental improvement. Many of the first word processors were disguised to look like typewriters, as I mentioned in chapter 7 of my book. "With ingenuity and extra effort, the limitations of the old were imposed on the new." To take a more recent example, Toyota took extra effort to make the Prius look like a gasoline powered car rather than an electric car. Their message was "you never need to plug it in!" They still oppose the plug-in hybrid design because they fear it will "confuse" customers. They seem to have a low opinion of their customer's intelligence. They have badly misjudged their customers, who include many engineers and geeks who would love to plug in the car. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 14:32:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MMWM0L013422; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:32:22 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2MMWDrw013371; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:32:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:32:13 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: ThomasClark123@aol.com Message-ID: <2dc.45bd376.31532a63@aol.com> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:32:03 EST Subject: Re: Electrostatic Hover Cars To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1143066723" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67221 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1143066723 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/9/2006 7:01:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, hohlrauml6d@netscape.net writes: Yes, this is the basis of Sir Grimer's Beta-atmosphere conjecture. However, if you actually read the posts (input vs. output) on this list you would know this. Regards, Terry I tried to find the above conjecture at the vortex-l email archive at http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/ but the find search engine does not work. Then I did a complete word search of the VortexB 2001 - present (.txt) (large!) and could not find anything. I then I did a google search and the only thing I could find with Sir Gimmer was below: Northvegr - Sigurd the Dragon-Slayer Sir Grimmer & Sir Germer They push away from shore; Wild the storm-wind waxes, & loud the billows roar. GRIMILD'S REVENGE 191 ... www.northvegr.org/lore/sigurd/033.php - 38k - Cached - Similar pages -------------------------------1143066723 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 3/9/2006 7:01:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, hohlrauml= 6d@netscape.net writes:
Yes, this is the basis of Sir Grimer's Beta-at= mosphere conjecture. 
However, if you actually read the posts (inpu= t vs. output) on this list
you would know this.

Regards,

T= erry
I tried to find the above conjecture at the vortex-l email archive at&n= bsp;http://ww= w.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/ but the find search = engine does not work.  Then I did a complete word search of the VortexB= =20
  • 2001 - present (.tx= t) (large!)  and could not find anything.  I then I did a google s= earch and the only thing I could find with Sir Gimmer was below:
    •  
    Nort= hvegr - Sigurd the Dragon-Slayer=20 -------------------------------1143066723-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 15:00:55 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2MN0grX024885; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:00:43 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2MN0fhU024869; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:00:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:00:41 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060322175849.036ff788@mindspring.com> Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060322174557.03700918@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:00:34 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Casual destruction of critical data Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67222 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here is a message I posted on CMNS. I repeat it as a warning, or plea, to experimentalists here. There has been far too much casual, mindless destruction of critical information in this field. Ludwik Kowalski wrote: >2) The foils were mailed in a little plastic bag inside the ordinary >paper envelope. OY VEH! SHIT! Ludwik, and everyone else, PLEASE STOP DOING STUPID THINGS LIKE THIS!!!! For goodness sake, have some common sense! Haven't you seen envelopes arrive at your house torn, damaged or bent? It happens all the time. You can go to the post office or UPS and spend $3, and get a strong cardboard box that will be 50 times more likely to arrive intact. You may have destroyed critical samples, and vital one-of-a-kind data because you did not spend 10 minutes and few dollars to get a proper container. I am sorry to be so strident, but this kind of behavior really irks me. You spent weeks in Japan working on this experiment. Kasagi may have devoted months and tens of thousands of dollars to prepare the sample. And you may have destroyed it! For no reason! Cold fusion scientists have made sloppy mistakes like this time after time. Destroying evidence, casually throwing away machines, losing critical data. They have also lost or thrown away countless papers, photographs and computer data. This is highly unprofessional, it is completely uncalled for, and you damn well should stop doing it! - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 16:57:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2N0vRvl011577; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:57:32 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2N0vQgY011566; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:57:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:57:26 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=FBtnUKSrs7I0LXFKL2i7Os46kpzk7rswFQxiRWj/ZyQMzlkSx87uheIUfjLvHbdX; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200634230571310@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electroniumized Deuterons & Low Energy Deuteron Stripping Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:57:13 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9400de3a82b4bcd52727490b71c6de7762e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.128 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67223 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Previously I wrote: > > Stripping: (*D) -----> P + (*n > If an A.C.. arc discharge is set up between two Boron rods (preferably at a high pressure the low energy stripping *D might strip and allow the neutron to react with the Boron-10 and effect the high cross-section reaction: *n + B-10 -----> He-4 + Li-7 + ~ 3.4 MeV Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
    Previously I wrote:
    >
    > Stripping:  (*D) ----->  P +  (*n
    >
    If an A.C.. arc discharge is set up between two Boron rods (preferably
    at a high pressure  the low energy stripping *D might strip and allow the neutron
    to react with the Boron-10 and effect the high cross-section reaction:
     
    *n + B-10 -----> He-4 + Li-7 + ~ 3.4 MeV
     
    Fred
    ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 19:42:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2N3fqgT020290; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:41:52 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2N3fou2020277; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:41:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:41:50 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060322194355.02b75590@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:44:04 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: Luann Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67224 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Something to enjoy: http://www.luannsroom.com/comics/luann/archive/luann-20060319.html From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 20:11:35 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2N4BJeM001289; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:11:20 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2N4BIAm001272; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:11:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:11:18 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2006-03-10) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.1 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Message-ID: <000a01c64e2f$cc6ca720$e3027841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060322194355.02b75590@mail.newenergytimes.com> Subject: Re: Luann Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:11:01 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67225 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Howdy everybody, Let Luann have her fun. At age 6 back in 1934, living in the near wilderness of Morgan's Point Texas, an autogiro came flying over our cabin, suddenly lost power and "autogiroed" to earth with a bang !. I still don't believe it and I saw it.... but trying to explain something like that, to a kid that had never seen one, was too much of a stretch < grin> Funny, that within one next generation, cold fusion will be obsolete.. because science will have conquered magnetism for work output. Think about that for kicks. I have been most fortunate to have lived in the most wonderful age in the history of the world. Everything changed irrevocably within that short time of 78 years. Over the next 7 years, the world will again change even more radically than that prior 78 years, Either we will experience the most remarkable growth and prosperity where the stock market will exceed 35,000 and new energy will come in focus. or we crash in flames.. me , the eternal optimist ..ever young in my thinking, believe in the young people of today and their rise to the challenge of excellence that are , once again, inspiring the world with what the USA dream is really all about. The USA, the dream , is no longer a physical place, it is not owned by a few, that dream belongs to the world. That is what the socall free market economy is producing.. the USA, per se, has expanded so that the world owns as much of that dream as we. Bring about cold fusion! Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Krivit" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 9:44 PM Subject: Luann > Something to enjoy: > > http://www.luannsroom.com/comics/luann/archive/luann-20060319.html > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 22 22:27:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2N6QbLh003542; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:26:41 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2N6Qav7003535; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:26:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:26:36 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <44223F52.7030505@usfamily.net> Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 00:25:22 -0600 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Efimov state - key to multi-nuclear LENR? References: <2.2.32.20060316132113.009f85a0@pop.freeserve.net> <002601c64900$3410c620$72027841@xptower> <052401c6491c$76b6ef10$6401a8c0@NuDell> <001a01c64a91$3784c800$2a027841@xptower> <3qhp12d6bv1ag1h5har4b036e1tdtivfi7@4ax.com> <000601c64b60$ef64c4a0$5f037841@xptower> <441FAC13.1030604@usfamily.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67226 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >In reply to thomas malloy's message of Tue, 21 Mar 2006 01:32:35 >-0600: >Hi, >[snip] > > >>>>All the smoke and mirrors don't detract from the basic facts. What >>>>I said stands. The number 3 is a direct consequence of living in a >>>>3 dimensional universe. >>>> >>>> >>There's a nonsequitor if ever I head one. >> >> > >Not if you had been following the thread. > > I think that the universe is more complicated > > >>John E W Keeley believed that >>there were three subunits that made up the atom, Dale Pond created an >>excellent graphic showing three spheres dancing around one another, It >>can be seen at http://www.svpvril.com/astro.html#animatedtriplet >> >> > >...and both chose the number three because we live in a 3 >dimensional universe. > > Did anyone look at Dale Pond's graphic on SVPVRIL? He built a machine based on Keeley's design for the Dynasphere, and named it Atlin. He says that it works on the Strong Force, by love.. Women like it, that would be reason enough to get one. Dale has published a book, which is all I can afford...to be continued. --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 23 00:17:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2N8HJ56011367; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 00:17:19 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.12.10/Submit) id k2N8HH3Q011343; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 00:17:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 00:17:17 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 03:17:41 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: Luann In-reply-to: <6.2.0.14.2.20060322194355.02b75590@mail.newenergytimes.com> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67227 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.cartoonstock.com/directory/c/cold_fusion.asp (May not be new to folks) Harry Steven Krivit wrote: > Something to enjoy: > > http://www.luannsroom.com/comics/luann/archive/luann-20060319.html > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 23 19:47:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2O3lIYt003541; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 19:47:18 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2O3lHqS003530; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 19:47:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 19:47:17 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 22:47:13 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C81D0CC530DF34-22B8-12820@mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Gravitomagnetic Field Quantified Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.138 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67236 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.physorg.com/news12054.html excerpt: "It demonstrates that a superconductive gyroscope is capable of generating a powerful gravitomagnetic field, and is therefore the gravitational counterpart of the magnetic coil. Depending on further confirmation, this effect could form the basis for a new technological domain, which would have numerous applications in space and other high-tech sectors" says de Matos. Although just 100 millionths of the acceleration due to the Earth's gravitational field, the measured field is a surprising one hundred million trillion times larger than Einstein's General Relativity predicts. Initially, the researchers were reluctant to believe their own results. " If they had placed the rotating SC inside a magnetic field, they might have succeeded in aligning the lattice ions and blowing the roof off. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 23 19:57:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2O3vVt6006926; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 19:57:31 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2O3vUD6006914; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 19:57:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 19:57:30 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: Gravitomagnetic Field Quantified Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 23:06:17 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <8C81D0CC530DF34-22B8-12820@mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Rcpt-To: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67237 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Let me be the first to say... WOW! Thanx for the heads up, Ham. Can you say, Podkletnov? I thought you could. K. -----Original Message----- From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net [mailto:hohlrauml6d@netscape.net] Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:47 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Gravitomagnetic Field Quantified http://www.physorg.com/news12054.html excerpt: "It demonstrates that a superconductive gyroscope is capable of generating a powerful gravitomagnetic field, and is therefore the gravitational counterpart of the magnetic coil. Depending on further confirmation, this effect could form the basis for a new technological domain, which would have numerous applications in space and other high-tech sectors" says de Matos. Although just 100 millionths of the acceleration due to the Earth's gravitational field, the measured field is a surprising one hundred million trillion times larger than Einstein's General Relativity predicts. Initially, the researchers were reluctant to believe their own results. " If they had placed the rotating SC inside a magnetic field, they might have succeeded in aligning the lattice ions and blowing the roof off. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 23 22:08:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2O68Kjr018167; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 22:08:21 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2O68IIi018152; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 22:08:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 22:08:18 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 01:08:44 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: Gravitomagnetic Field Quantified In-reply-to: To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67238 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Same story with pictures: http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEM0L6OVGJE_index_0.html Harry Keith Nagel wrote: > Let me be the first to say... > > WOW! > > Thanx for the heads up, Ham. > > Can you say, Podkletnov? I thought you could. > > K. > > -----Original Message----- > From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net [mailto:hohlrauml6d@netscape.net] > Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:47 PM > To: vortex-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Gravitomagnetic Field Quantified > > > http://www.physorg.com/news12054.html > > excerpt: > > "It demonstrates that a superconductive gyroscope is capable of > generating a powerful gravitomagnetic field, and is therefore the > gravitational counterpart of the magnetic coil. Depending on further > confirmation, this effect could form the basis for a new technological > domain, which would have numerous applications in space and other > high-tech sectors" says de Matos. Although just 100 millionths of the > acceleration due to the Earth's gravitational field, the measured field > is a surprising one hundred million trillion times larger than > Einstein's General Relativity predicts. Initially, the researchers were > reluctant to believe their own results. " > > If they had placed the rotating SC inside a magnetic field, they might > have succeeded in aligning the lattice ions and blowing the roof off. > > > Terry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 02:50:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2OAnorL022769; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 02:49:51 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2OAnmjg022747; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 02:49:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 02:49:48 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=RRaYo59nfNc7lJ6NnGKyBQGqE7czYmw2DR4SGge992zNbgFtp29EqFDCvuo5DkkP; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063524104937929@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravitomagnetic Field Quantified Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 03:49:37 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940f5fb8e75885c5cc6963c8a4d5ba20eec350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.100 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67239 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEM0L6OVGJE_index_0.html "Their experiment involves a ring of superconducting material rotating up to 6 500 times a minute. Superconductors are special materials that lose all electrical resistance at a certain temperature. Spinning superconductors produce a weak magnetic field, the so-called London moment." "Small acceleration sensors placed at different locations close to the spinning superconductor, which has to be accelerated for the effect to be noticeable, recorded an acceleration field outside the superconductor that appears to be produced by gravitomagnetism. "This experiment is the gravitational analogue of Faraday's electromagnetic induction experiment in 1831." Been there last year. We used one-dollar Radioshacjk electric motors that go up to ~8,000 RPM spinning ring "Nd Supermagnets" sitting on a digital scale. :-) Horace's Post: Re: Spinning Supermagnet Levitation At 5:00 AM 2/3/5, Frederick Sparber wrote: [snip] >These experiments (thanks to Colin Quinney) support that contention, but, >the force will >only be 0.075 lbs ( 34 grams) heavier or lighter at 7200 RPM. > http://www.marmet.ca/louis/induction_faraday/kelly/KellyFa3.pdf ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
     
    "Their experiment involves a ring of superconducting material rotating up to 6 500 times a minute. Superconductors are special materials that lose all electrical resistance at a certain temperature. Spinning superconductors produce a weak magnetic field, the so-called London moment."
    "Small acceleration sensors placed at different locations close to the spinning superconductor, which has to be accelerated for the effect to be noticeable, recorded an acceleration field outside the superconductor that appears to be produced by gravitomagnetism. "This experiment is the gravitational analogue of Faraday's electromagnetic induction experiment in 1831."
     
    Been there last year.  We used one-dollar Radioshacjk electric motors that
    go up to ~8,000 RPM spinning ring "Nd Supermagnets" sitting on a digital scale.  :-)
     
     
     
    Horace's Post:
     
    Re: Spinning Supermagnet Levitation
     
    At 5:00 AM 2/3/5, Frederick Sparber wrote:
    [snip]
    >These experiments (thanks to Colin Quinney) support that contention, but,
    >the force will
    >only be 0.075 lbs ( 34 grams) heavier or lighter at 7200 RPM.
    >
    http://www.marmet.ca/louis/induction_faraday/kelly/KellyFa3.pdf
    ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 03:26:16 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2OBQ5Th001739; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 03:26:06 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2OBQ4t6001722; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 03:26:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 03:26:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=EPRA5pWFX6IiVxEtac0QGIhyyFbR0UAN/8yASlLGY3pEDtlC42xQE4HyDgSh1F19; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063524112553956@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Gravitomagnetic Field Quantified Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 04:25:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940244619f52e588f31b1c653fa7c49eb6d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.163 Resent-Message-ID: <7nO39D.A.2a.Ld9IEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67240 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII What I deduced from Dr. Kelly's work (17 page pdf): http://www.marmet.ca/louis/induction_faraday/kelly/KellyFa3.pdf was that the intrinsic spin mvr = h/2(pi) of the fundamental particles (or a stacked particle group) with an intrinsic magnetic field proportional to mass have an acceleration v^2/r that creates the Gravitomagnetic Field. Vortex-l Archives thread (Re: Spinning Supermagnet Levitation): http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg02696.html What goes around comes around. Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 3/24/2006 3:50:25 AM Subject: Re: Gravitomagnetic Field Quantified http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEM0L6OVGJE_index_0.html "Their experiment involves a ring of superconducting material rotating up to 6 500 times a minute. Superconductors are special materials that lose all electrical resistance at a certain temperature. Spinning superconductors produce a weak magnetic field, the so-called London moment." "Small acceleration sensors placed at different locations close to the spinning superconductor, which has to be accelerated for the effect to be noticeable, recorded an acceleration field outside the superconductor that appears to be produced by gravitomagnetism. "This experiment is the gravitational analogue of Faraday's electromagnetic induction experiment in 1831." Been there last year. We used one-dollar Radioshacjk electric motors that go up to ~8,000 RPM spinning ring "Nd Supermagnets" sitting on a digital scale. :-) Horace's Post: Re: Spinning Supermagnet Levitation At 5:00 AM 2/3/5, Frederick Sparber wrote: [snip] >These experiments (thanks to Colin Quinney) support that contention, but, >the force will >only be 0.075 lbs ( 34 grams) heavier or lighter at 7200 RPM. > http://www.marmet.ca/louis/induction_faraday/kelly/KellyFa3.pdf ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
     
    What I deduced from Dr. Kelly's work (17 page pdf):
     
     
    was that the intrinsic spin mvr = h/2(pi) of the fundamental particles (or a stacked particle group) with an intrinsic magnetic field
    proportional to mass have an acceleration   v^2/r  that creates the Gravitomagnetic Field.
     
    Vortex-l Archives thread (Re: Spinning Supermagnet Levitation):
     
     
     
    What goes around comes around.
     
    Fred
     
    ----- Original Message -----
    Sent: 3/24/2006 3:50:25 AM
    Subject: Re: Gravitomagnetic Field Quantified

     
    "Their experiment involves a ring of superconducting material rotating up to 6 500 times a minute. Superconductors are special materials that lose all electrical resistance at a certain temperature. Spinning superconductors produce a weak magnetic field, the so-called London moment."
    "Small acceleration sensors placed at different locations close to the spinning superconductor, which has to be accelerated for the effect to be noticeable, recorded an acceleration field outside the superconductor that appears to be produced by gravitomagnetism. "This experiment is the gravitational analogue of Faraday's electromagnetic induction experiment in 1831."
     
    Been there last year.  We used one-dollar Radioshacjk electric motors that
    go up to ~8,000 RPM spinning ring "Nd Supermagnets" sitting on a digital scale.  :-)
     
     
     
    Horace's Post:
     
    Re: Spinning Supermagnet Levitation
     
    At 5:00 AM 2/3/5, Frederick Sparber wrote:
    [snip]
    >These experiments (thanks to Colin Quinney) support that contention, but,
    >the force will
    >only be 0.075 lbs ( 34 grams) heavier or lighter at 7200 RPM.
    >
    http://www.marmet.ca/louis/induction_faraday/kelly/KellyFa3.pdf
    ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 03:55:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2OBt0iC010894; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 03:55:01 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2OBsxqB010858; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 03:54:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 03:54:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=Tlu+3kJ3+lnA08GfTWt1wQlqciQKePLncGEPLOBAoFBBg7AY9eA4829iGk8spzvSBUcLvylmdT4Jk60eWdwNi+aYafZUihh04vx4xds89TzU6ZmEb8/pWsuojba0rkeEm9EAQ0wpWLPZ36lQhIGcTGKXL0j8WQAu4SNGNzSbU9M= Message-ID: <357653710603240354p30f85b53j60cf059ce62f91f9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 12:54:56 +0100 From: "David Jonsson" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravitomagnetic Field Quantified In-Reply-To: <410-220063524112553956@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1125_12691047.1143201296712" References: <410-220063524112553956@earthlink.net> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67241 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_Part_1125_12691047.1143201296712 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline This comes from lack of understanding of basic electromagnetic field theory= . Quoted: "Just as a moving electrical charge creates a magnetic field, so a moving mass generates a gravitomagnetic field" A moving electric charge creates a magnetic field which is the same as an inertial force. For an electron the field energy outside the electron grows as mv^2/3 which shows that inertia for the electron actually is to most par= t electrodynamical reluctance. Here is the connection between inertia and electromagnetism. The connection between inertia and gravitation comes from the principle of equivalence in genereal relativity. Hence in ordinary matter something like 1/4000 of the inertia(=3Dgravity) i= s caused by the electron reluctance. This is what they have found in the lab. No surprise. Do I have to be more precise? I wrote an article in 1994 showing the electromagnetical origin of the so called mass of the electron. The mass of the electron is determined by it's inertia which is electromagnetical. The qouted sentence should read: Quoted: "Just as a moving electrical charge creates a magnetic field and thus apparent inertia, so a moving mass generates a similar field magnetic field with associated inertia" Superconductivity means that the electron must moove without magnetic reluctance (at least without generating dissipative magnetic fields) and thus it also looses it's inertia. This is very simple basic electromagnetic knowledge. No need for general relativity. Some parts of science has incorporated this like solid state physics. They speek of effective mass of the electron instead of seeing it as some fixed natural constant. Electron mass and inertia depends on the space parameter susceptibility and permittivity, =B5 and epsilon. I belong to those who understand general relativity curvature of space just as a change in the permittivity and susceptibility. Harold Puthoff has developed this description of general relativity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarizable_vacuum David > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Frederick Sparber > *To: *vortex-l@eskimo.com > *Sent:* 3/24/2006 3:50:25 AM > *Subject:* Re: Gravitomagnetic Field Quantified > > > http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEM0L6OVGJE_index_0.html > > "Their experiment involves a ring of superconducting material rotating up > to 6 500 times a minute. Superconductors are special materials that lose = all > electrical resistance at a certain temperature. Spinning superconductors > produce a weak magnetic field, the so-called London moment." > "Small acceleration sensors placed at different locations close to the > spinning superconductor, which has to be accelerated for the effect to be > noticeable, recorded an acceleration field outside the superconductor tha= t > appears to be produced by gravitomagnetism. "This experiment is the > gravitational analogue of Faraday's electromagnetic induction experiment = in > 1831." > > Been there last year. We used one-dollar Radioshacjk electric motors tha= t > go up to ~8,000 RPM spinning ring "Nd Supermagnets" sitting on a digital > scale. :-) > > > ------=_Part_1125_12691047.1143201296712 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
    This comes from lack of understanding of basic electromagnetic field t= heory.
    Quoted: "Just as a moving electrical charge creates a magnetic field, so a moving mas= s generates a gravitomagnetic field"
     
    A moving electric charge creates a magnetic field which is the same as= an inertial force. For an electron the field energy outside the electron g= rows as mv^2/3 which shows that inertia for the electron actually is to mos= t part electrodynamical reluctance. Here is the connection between inertia = and electromagnetism. The connection between inertia and gravitation comes = from the principle of equivalence in genereal relativity.
     
    Hence in ordinary matter something like 1/4000 of the inertia(=3Dgravi= ty) is caused by the electron reluctance. This is what they have found in t= he lab. No surprise.
     
    Do I have to be more precise? I wrote an article in 1994 showing the e= lectromagnetical origin of the so called mass of the electron. The mass of = the electron is determined by it's inertia which is electromagnetical.
     
    The qouted sentence should read:
    Quoted: "Just as a moving electrical charge creates a magnetic field and thus ap= parent inertia, so a moving mass generates a similar field magnetic field w= ith associated inertia"
     
    Superconductivity means that the electron must moove without magnetic = reluctance (at least without generating dissipative magnetic fields) and th= us it also looses it's inertia. This is very simple basic electromagnetic k= nowledge. No need for general relativity.=20
     
    Some parts of science has incorporated this like solid state physics. = They speek of effective mass of the electron instead of seeing it as some f= ixed natural constant. Electron mass and inertia depends on the space param= eter susceptibility and permittivity, =B5 and epsilon. I belong to those wh= o understand general relativity curvature of space just as a change in the = permittivity and susceptibility. Harold Puthoff has developed this descript= ion of general relativity=20 http://en.wikip= edia.org/wiki/Polarizable_vacuum
     
    David
     
    ----- Original Message -----
    Sent: 3/24/2006 3:50:25 AM
    Subject: Re: Gravitomagnetic Field Q= uantified

     
     
    "Thei= r experiment involves a ring of superconducting material rotating up to 6 5= 00 times a minute. Superconductors are special materials that lose all elec= trical resistance at a certain temperature. Spinning superconductors produc= e a weak magnetic field, the so-called London moment."
    &quo= t;Small acceleration sensors placed at different locations close to the spi= nning superconductor, which has to be accelerated for the effect to be noti= ceable, recorded an acceleration field outside the superconductor that appe= ars to be produced by gravitomagnetism. "This experiment is the gravit= ational analogue of Faraday's electromagnetic induction experiment in 1831.= "
     
    Been there last year.  We us= ed one-dollar Radioshacjk electric motors that
    go up to ~8,000 RPM spinning ring= "Nd Supermagnets" sitting on a digital scale.  :-)
     
     =
    ------=_Part_1125_12691047.1143201296712-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 04:39:06 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2OCcp7C025957; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 04:38:52 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2OCcoFO025937; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 04:38:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 04:38:50 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=TT+On5tfc4nblPW2YGNvQN8va0pHVg/LANGJ5C3pvoEZKdcLS08j8RdK+B2H9o3A; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063524123838212@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravitomagnetic Field Quantified Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 05:38:38 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940ed1a70ffb20550aee58c87ffeab932d3350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.48 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67242 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I don't think we are very far apart on the issue, David. The Displacement Current in any particle I = C *dV/dt where C = eo * wavelength (hc/E) sets up an enormous B field. Another approach is I = q*f where f = c/wavelength = 19.7 amperes for the electron and 12,056 amperes for each of the three "quarks" in the proton. R = wavelength/2(pi) 3.86e-13 meters & 6.3e-16 meters for the radius of the electron and each of the 3 discs (quarks) stacked side-by-side in the proton 2 up or plus cw and 1 minus ccw giving an enormous "solenoid-like B field. This GSU interactive calculator will give you the value of the B field s. and total spin mcr = h/2(pi) will give acceleration c^/r. BTW. I was corresponding with Hal Puthoff and others on this in the mid to late 1980s. Hope this helps. Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: David Jonsson To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 3/24/2006 4:55:42 AM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Gravitomagnetic Field Quantified This comes from lack of understanding of basic electromagnetic field theory. Quoted: "Just as a moving electrical charge creates a magnetic field, so a moving mass generates a gravitomagnetic field" A moving electric charge creates a magnetic field which is the same as an inertial force. For an electron the field energy outside the electron grows as mv^2/3 which shows that inertia for the electron actually is to most part electrodynamical reluctance. Here is the connection between inertia and electromagnetism. The connection between inertia and gravitation comes from the principle of equivalence in genereal relativity. Hence in ordinary matter something like 1/4000 of the inertia(=gravity) is caused by the electron reluctance. This is what they have found in the lab. No surprise. Do I have to be more precise? I wrote an article in 1994 showing the electromagnetical origin of the so called mass of the electron. The mass of the electron is determined by it's inertia which is electromagnetical. The qouted sentence should read: Quoted: "Just as a moving electrical charge creates a magnetic field and thus apparent inertia, so a moving mass generates a similar field magnetic field with associated inertia" Superconductivity means that the electron must moove without magnetic reluctance (at least without generating dissipative magnetic fields) and thus it also looses it's inertia. This is very simple basic electromagnetic knowledge. No need for general relativity. Some parts of science has incorporated this like solid state physics. They speek of effective mass of the electron instead of seeing it as some fixed natural constant. Electron mass and inertia depends on the space parameter susceptibility and permittivity, µ and epsilon. I belong to those who understand general relativity curvature of space just as a change in the permittivity and susceptibility. Harold Puthoff has developed this description of general relativity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarizable_vacuum David ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 3/24/2006 3:50:25 AM Subject: Re: Gravitomagnetic Field Quantified http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEM0L6OVGJE_index_0.html "Their experiment involves a ring of superconducting material rotating up to 6 500 times a minute. Superconductors are special materials that lose all electrical resistance at a certain temperature. Spinning superconductors produce a weak magnetic field, the so-called London moment." "Small acceleration sensors placed at different locations close to the spinning superconductor, which has to be accelerated for the effect to be noticeable, recorded an acceleration field outside the superconductor that appears to be produced by gravitomagnetism. "This experiment is the gravitational analogue of Faraday's electromagnetic induction experiment in 1831." Been there last year. We used one-dollar Radioshacjk electric motors that go up to ~8,000 RPM spinning ring "Nd Supermagnets" sitting on a digital scale. :-) ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
    I don't think we are very far apart on the issue, David.
     
    The Displacement Current in any particle I = C *dV/dt  where  C = eo * wavelength (hc/E)
    sets up an enormous B field.
    Another approach  is I = q*f  where f = c/wavelength = 19.7 amperes for the electron
    and 12,056 amperes for each of the three "quarks" in the proton. 
     
    R =  wavelength/2(pi) 3.86e-13 meters & 6.3e-16 meters for the radius of
    the electron and each of the 3 discs (quarks) stacked side-by-side in the proton
    2 up or plus cw and 1 minus ccw giving an enormous "solenoid-like  B field.
     
    This GSU interactive calculator will give you the value of the B field s.
    and total spin mcr = h/2(pi) will give acceleration c^/r.
     
    BTW. I was corresponding with Hal Puthoff and others on this in the mid to late 1980s.
     
    Hope this helps.
     
    Fred
    ----- Original Message -----
    Sent: 3/24/2006 4:55:42 AM
    Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Gravitomagnetic Field Quantified

    This comes from lack of understanding of basic electromagnetic field theory.
    Quoted: "Just as a moving electrical charge creates a magnetic field, so a moving mass generates a gravitomagnetic field"
     
    A moving electric charge creates a magnetic field which is the same as an inertial force. For an electron the field energy outside the electron grows as mv^2/3 which shows that inertia for the electron actually is to most part electrodynamical reluctance. Here is the connection between inertia and electromagnetism. The connection between inertia and gravitation comes from the principle of equivalence in genereal relativity.
     
    Hence in ordinary matter something like 1/4000 of the inertia(=gravity) is caused by the electron reluctance. This is what they have found in the lab. No surprise.
     
    Do I have to be more precise? I wrote an article in 1994 showing the electromagnetical origin of the so called mass of the electron. The mass of the electron is determined by it's inertia which is electromagnetical.
     
    The qouted sentence should read:
    Quoted: "Just as a moving electrical charge creates a magnetic field and thus apparent inertia, so a moving mass generates a similar field magnetic field with associated inertia"
     
    Superconductivity means that the electron must moove without magnetic reluctance (at least without generating dissipative magnetic fields) and thus it also looses it's inertia. This is very simple basic electromagnetic knowledge. No need for general relativity.
     
    Some parts of science has incorporated this like solid state physics. They speek of effective mass of the electron instead of seeing it as some fixed natural constant. Electron mass and inertia depends on the space parameter susceptibility and permittivity, µ and epsilon. I belong to those who understand general relativity curvature of space just as a change in the permittivity and susceptibility. Harold Puthoff has developed this description of general relativity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarizable_vacuum
     
    David
     
    ----- Original Message -----
    Sent: 3/24/2006 3:50:25 AM
    Subject: Re: Gravitomagnetic Field Quantified

     
     
    "Their experiment involves a ring of superconducting material rotating up to 6 500 times a minute. Superconductors are special materials that lose all electrical resistance at a certain temperature. Spinning superconductors produce a weak magnetic field, the so-called London moment."
    "Small acceleration sensors placed at different locations close to the spinning superconductor, which has to be accelerated for the effect to be noticeable, recorded an acceleration field outside the superconductor that appears to be produced by gravitomagnetism. "This experiment is the gravitational analogue of Faraday's electromagnetic induction experiment in 1831."
     
    Been there last year.  We used one-dollar Radioshacjk electric motors that
    go up to ~8,000 RPM spinning ring "Nd Supermagnets" sitting on a digital scale.  :-)
     
     
    ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 04:41:19 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2OCf60h026873; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 04:41:06 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2OCf4nB026842; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 04:41:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 04:41:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=RI2DcLmKYsZZpAuUsXIkoOR6gjc5o6zV/sOi1wElJfLxeGe+77WlFs6CbYD3qvr3; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063524124059806@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Gravitomagnetic Field Quantified Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 05:40:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9408d732a3449768527139d65b5dc3917ec350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.48 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67243 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII GSU Calculator: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/HBASE/magnetic/curloo.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 3/24/2006 5:38:35 AM Subject: Re: Gravitomagnetic Field Quantified I don't think we are very far apart on the issue, David. The Displacement Current in any particle I = C *dV/dt where C = eo * wavelength (hc/E) sets up an enormous B field. Another approach is I = q*f where f = c/wavelength = 19.7 amperes for the electron and 12,056 amperes for each of the three "quarks" in the proton. R = wavelength/2(pi) 3.86e-13 meters & 6.3e-16 meters for the radius of the electron and each of the 3 discs (quarks) stacked side-by-side in the proton 2 up or plus cw and 1 minus ccw giving an enormous "solenoid-like B field. This GSU interactive calculator will give you the value of the B field s. and total spin mcr = h/2(pi) will give acceleration c^/r. BTW. I was corresponding with Hal Puthoff and others on this in the mid to late 1980s. Hope this helps. Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: David Jonsson To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 3/24/2006 4:55:42 AM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Gravitomagnetic Field Quantified This comes from lack of understanding of basic electromagnetic field theory. Quoted: "Just as a moving electrical charge creates a magnetic field, so a moving mass generates a gravitomagnetic field" A moving electric charge creates a magnetic field which is the same as an inertial force. For an electron the field energy outside the electron grows as mv^2/3 which shows that inertia for the electron actually is to most part electrodynamical reluctance. Here is the connection between inertia and electromagnetism. The connection between inertia and gravitation comes from the principle of equivalence in genereal relativity. Hence in ordinary matter something like 1/4000 of the inertia(=gravity) is caused by the electron reluctance. This is what they have found in the lab. No surprise. Do I have to be more precise? I wrote an article in 1994 showing the electromagnetical origin of the so called mass of the electron. The mass of the electron is determined by it's inertia which is electromagnetical. The qouted sentence should read: Quoted: "Just as a moving electrical charge creates a magnetic field and thus apparent inertia, so a moving mass generates a similar field magnetic field with associated inertia" Superconductivity means that the electron must moove without magnetic reluctance (at least without generating dissipative magnetic fields) and thus it also looses it's inertia. This is very simple basic electromagnetic knowledge. No need for general relativity. Some parts of science has incorporated this like solid state physics. They speek of effective mass of the electron instead of seeing it as some fixed natural constant. Electron mass and inertia depends on the space parameter susceptibility and permittivity, µ and epsilon. I belong to those who understand general relativity curvature of space just as a change in the permittivity and susceptibility. Harold Puthoff has developed this description of general relativity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarizable_vacuum David ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 3/24/2006 3:50:25 AM Subject: Re: Gravitomagnetic Field Quantified http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEM0L6OVGJE_index_0.html "Their experiment involves a ring of superconducting material rotating up to 6 500 times a minute. Superconductors are special materials that lose all electrical resistance at a certain temperature. Spinning superconductors produce a weak magnetic field, the so-called London moment." "Small acceleration sensors placed at different locations close to the spinning superconductor, which has to be accelerated for the effect to be noticeable, recorded an acceleration field outside the superconductor that appears to be produced by gravitomagnetism. "This experiment is the gravitational analogue of Faraday's electromagnetic induction experiment in 1831." Been there last year. We used one-dollar Radioshacjk electric motors that go up to ~8,000 RPM spinning ring "Nd Supermagnets" sitting on a digital scale. :-) ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
     
    ----- Original Message -----
    Sent: 3/24/2006 5:38:35 AM
    Subject: Re: Gravitomagnetic Field Quantified

    I don't think we are very far apart on the issue, David.
     
    The Displacement Current in any particle I = C *dV/dt  where  C = eo * wavelength (hc/E)
    sets up an enormous B field.
    Another approach  is I = q*f  where f = c/wavelength = 19.7 amperes for the electron
    and 12,056 amperes for each of the three "quarks" in the proton. 
     
    R =  wavelength/2(pi) 3.86e-13 meters & 6.3e-16 meters for the radius of
    the electron and each of the 3 discs (quarks) stacked side-by-side in the proton
    2 up or plus cw and 1 minus ccw giving an enormous "solenoid-like  B field.
     
    This GSU interactive calculator will give you the value of the B field s.
    and total spin mcr = h/2(pi) will give acceleration c^/r.
     
    BTW. I was corresponding with Hal Puthoff and others on this in the mid to late 1980s.
     
    Hope this helps.
     
    Fred
    ----- Original Message -----
    Sent: 3/24/2006 4:55:42 AM
    Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Gravitomagnetic Field Quantified

    This comes from lack of understanding of basic electromagnetic field theory.
    Quoted: "Just as a moving electrical charge creates a magnetic field, so a moving mass generates a gravitomagnetic field"
     
    A moving electric charge creates a magnetic field which is the same as an inertial force. For an electron the field energy outside the electron grows as mv^2/3 which shows that inertia for the electron actually is to most part electrodynamical reluctance. Here is the connection between inertia and electromagnetism. The connection between inertia and gravitation comes from the principle of equivalence in genereal relativity.
     
    Hence in ordinary matter something like 1/4000 of the inertia(=gravity) is caused by the electron reluctance. This is what they have found in the lab. No surprise.
     
    Do I have to be more precise? I wrote an article in 1994 showing the electromagnetical origin of the so called mass of the electron. The mass of the electron is determined by it's inertia which is electromagnetical.
     
    The qouted sentence should read:
    Quoted: "Just as a moving electrical charge creates a magnetic field and thus apparent inertia, so a moving mass generates a similar field magnetic field with associated inertia"
     
    Superconductivity means that the electron must moove without magnetic reluctance (at least without generating dissipative magnetic fields) and thus it also looses it's inertia. This is very simple basic electromagnetic knowledge. No need for general relativity.
     
    Some parts of science has incorporated this like solid state physics. They speek of effective mass of the electron instead of seeing it as some fixed natural constant. Electron mass and inertia depends on the space parameter susceptibility and permittivity, µ and epsilon. I belong to those who understand general relativity curvature of space just as a change in the permittivity and susceptibility. Harold Puthoff has developed this description of general relativity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarizable_vacuum
     
    David
     
    ----- Original Message -----
    Sent: 3/24/2006 3:50:25 AM
    Subject: Re: Gravitomagnetic Field Quantified

     
     
    "Their experiment involves a ring of superconducting material rotating up to 6 500 times a minute. Superconductors are special materials that lose all electrical resistance at a certain temperature. Spinning superconductors produce a weak magnetic field, the so-called London moment."
    "Small acceleration sensors placed at different locations close to the spinning superconductor, which has to be accelerated for the effect to be noticeable, recorded an acceleration field outside the superconductor that appears to be produced by gravitomagnetism. "This experiment is the gravitational analogue of Faraday's electromagnetic induction experiment in 1831."
     
    Been there last year.  We used one-dollar Radioshacjk electric motors that
    go up to ~8,000 RPM spinning ring "Nd Supermagnets" sitting on a digital scale.  :-)
     
     
    ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 07:11:56 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2OFBaf8014136; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:11:37 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2OFBYJA014122; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:11:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:11:34 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <727931.1143213088146.JavaMail.root@fepweb14> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 7:11:28 -0800 From: OrionWorks To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravitomagnetic Field Quantified Cc: orionworks@charter.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Sensitivity: Normal Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67245 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > From Terry: > > http://www.physorg.com/news12054.html > > excerpt: > > "It demonstrates that a superconductive gyroscope is > capable of generating a powerful gravitomagnetic field, > and is therefore the gravitational counterpart of the > magnetic coil. Depending on further confirmation, this > effect could form the basis for a new technological > domain, which would have numerous applications in space > and other high-tech sectors" says de Matos. Although just > 100 millionths of the acceleration due to the Earth's > gravitational field, the measured field is a surprising > one hundred million trillion times larger than Einstein's > General Relativity predicts. Initially, the researchers > were reluctant to believe their own results. " > > If they had placed the rotating SC inside a magnetic > field, they might have succeeded in aligning the lattice > ions and blowing the roof off. > > > Terry Goodness me! A novel way to raise the roof if there ever was one! How confident do others within the vortex readership feel about the latest findings? I know for me when I first read "...just 100 millionths of the acceleration due to the Earth's gravitational field," well... that seemed like such a teensy weensy effect. Of course, the first thing that came to my mind was: Experimental error. OTOH, I'm sure these guys are no dummies and did their best to account for this possibility. So, what do others have to say on the accuracy of these intriguing findings? Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 07:26:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2OFQIZF020397; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:26:18 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2OFQHdd020383; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:26:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:26:17 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=dW3cJJslxMElgXgbJL90agccKQOmiDoCkD1y143wi7WHikqTTD4Qay0pCOI6ko/1; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006352415261675@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: orionworks@charter.net Subject: Re: Gravitomagnetic Field Quantified Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:26:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940b20c7a921f01ccea503e216fc0c922da350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.172 Resent-Message-ID: <-ygieD.A.b-E.Y-AJEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67246 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Either someone is suffering from ADD or someone else is blacking-out the vortex-l mailing list. http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/maillist.html > [Original Message] > From: OrionWorks > To: > Cc: > Date: 3/24/2006 8:12:12 AM > Subject: Re: Gravitomagnetic Field Quantified > > > From Terry: > > > > http://www.physorg.com/news12054.html > > > > excerpt: > > > > "It demonstrates that a superconductive gyroscope is > > capable of generating a powerful gravitomagnetic field, > > and is therefore the gravitational counterpart of the > > magnetic coil. Depending on further confirmation, this > > effect could form the basis for a new technological > > domain, which would have numerous applications in space > > and other high-tech sectors" says de Matos. Although just > > 100 millionths of the acceleration due to the Earth's > > gravitational field, the measured field is a surprising > > one hundred million trillion times larger than Einstein's > > General Relativity predicts. Initially, the researchers > > were reluctant to believe their own results. " > > > > If they had placed the rotating SC inside a magnetic > > field, they might have succeeded in aligning the lattice > > ions and blowing the roof off. > > > > > > Terry > > Goodness me! A novel way to raise the roof if there ever was one! > > How confident do others within the vortex readership feel about the latest findings? I know for me when I first read "...just 100 millionths of the acceleration due to the Earth's gravitational field," well... that seemed like such a teensy weensy effect. Of course, the first thing that came to my mind was: Experimental error. OTOH, I'm sure these guys are no dummies and did their best to account for this possibility. > > So, what do others have to say on the accuracy of these intriguing findings? > > Regards, > Steven Vincent Johnson > www.OrionWorks.com > www.zazzle.com/orionworks > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 07:53:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2OFrGkh031492; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:53:16 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2OFrEjn031457; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:53:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:53:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=pacbell.net; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=EXswKLu6RM6B0F1lO3s/hsPMoVcj1IMBVvgB5cmt/+rQPu6vCWm/oew3gklxw5ncxgFUKW0zcJzbitQTdjgaSpA1RgxkIWi8KiNoGwfIo7npMOlkQmZiG5fWMgx9DK4sU73hBApreDA5OmBcneiyxd9RCKSr8PNASAfcBJVhHps= ; Message-ID: <20060324155312.29422.qmail@web81111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:53:12 -0800 (PST) From: Jones Beene Subject: EVO details To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67247 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: BTW this paper has some connection to the gravitomagnetic news which is floating around today. More in that in a later post. --------------------------------- A paper by Ken Shoulders on the "EVO Life Cycle" is available for download in a 1.7 MB Word format at: www.svn.net/krscfs/ EVO Life Cycle Ken Shoulders ©2006 An EVO, or Exotic Vacuum Object,begins its life by accreting electrons extracted from gaseous or solidatoms.It then self-transforms into a coherent structure behaving as an entityfunctioning at greatly reduced expressed charge compared to the numberofelectrons either put into it or extracted from it at this stage in itslife.Charge to mass ratio measurements on the EVO remain the same as that ofelectrons implying that the mass was also reduced. Part of the processof thistransmogrification involves electron emission within a narrow energyrangearound 2 KeV. If this initial stage of formation is left undisturbedduring abrief flight at high velocity, it transforms again into a non-emitting Blackstate with even further reduction in expressed charge. When this blackEVO isreduced in velocity to minimize interaction with matter, the entitybecomesvirtually undetectable using sensitive particle and charge sensingapparatus.This measurement is in apparent violation of conventional charge andenergyconservation laws. While it is clearly evident through variousmeasurementsthat this disappearance happens in gas up to at least atmosphericpressure, itis speculated that the effect extends to solids thus creating anunexpectedform of both transparency as well as presenting a new form of veryenergeticactive shielding from both projectiles and directed beam weapons. A newprogramfor increasing experimental activity is described. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 08:04:20 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2OG44DQ003840; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:04:04 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2OG4289003814; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:04:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:04:02 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 11:03:56 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C81D73B08D3008-2F18-6266@mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Solar Pyramids Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.131 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67248 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: These seem to have more possibilities than the chimneys: http://www.msc-power.co.in/msc1/html/description.asp ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 08:05:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2OG59bQ004815; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:05:10 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2OG591m004796; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:05:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:05:09 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=pacbell.net; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=2bkCjufCRyVBKpMxt1CheCKXHR8Xw4AzMHirkrT9X2X4Ti6CfJqg1zwb9fx4V4brMKRq+fUrbNprX1xUsdt1Ut3Ljf3sTGuPr+yVs8h3v3hUeTHUEPlJJpqyjAP/CFJGkdHjzn2Df3ncdMcX+npPCbGOIZBxwD3HqYvoJoeJGuw= ; Message-ID: <20060324160508.89808.qmail@web81109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:05:08 -0800 (PST) From: Jones Beene Subject: Re: Gravitomagnetic Field Quantified To: fjsparber@earthlink.net, vortex-l In-Reply-To: <410-220063524124059806@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67249 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Some time ago, Fred or Horace (can't remember who) mentioned the connection between a particularly important voltage potential and a number of anomalous properties - one of which "could possibly" and coincidentally cross-relate between Ken Shoulder's all-important mass-energy value of 2 keV (he calls it a "narrow range') and the gravitomagnetic field. This figure turns up in the Claytor and Graneau work as well. Of course getting a uniform 2 keV of electron mass-energy from a potential of 2 kV is no easy chore. But ignoring that problem for a moment... 2 keV is a value that does seem to have anecdotal importance - but I cannot remember the exact details of why - so maybe someone can provide the exact math. (If memory serves, it is related to the gradient value where the electron acceleration in the vector of the applied potential in free space is equal to c minus c*alpha ?? Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 08:22:53 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2OGMYus012217; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:22:38 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2OGMXnC012202; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:22:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:22:33 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060324162230838.CCB682400090@mwinf3102.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060324162230.00986828@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 16:22:30 +0000 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: A successful F&P experiment.... Resent-Message-ID: <8C9Sl.A.m-C.IzBJEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67250 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ....in cold fusion perhaps? 8-) ===============================================- http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4841196.stm A huge explosion has ripped through a chemistry institute in Mulhouse, eastern France, killing one person and injuring another. A fire raged after the blast at 1225 (1125 GMT) and thick smoke hung over the three-storey building. Firefighters evacuated people from the scene. ================================================ but more likely he just forgot to turn off the gas. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 08:24:21 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2OGO96U012909; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:24:10 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2OGO7nS012891; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:24:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:24:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 11:24:01 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C81D767E9B8474-2270-F38@mblkn-m06.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Oil and Meteors Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.70 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2OGO5DK012866 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67251 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=13380 "Proponents of the abiotic, deep-earth theory of the origin of oil point argue that the deep fracturing of the basement bedrock at Cantarell caused by the meteor's impact was responsible for allowing oil formed in the Earth's mantle to seep into the sedimentary rock that settled in the huge underwater crater. Geologists have documented that the bedrock underlying the crater shows "melt rock veinlets pointing to large megablock structures as well as a long thermal and fluid transport" as part of the post-impact history. In other words, the bedrock at Cantarell did suffer sufficiently severe fracturing to open the bedrock to flows of liquids and gases from the deep earth below." ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 09:23:37 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2OHNO8F002218; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:23:24 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2OHNMtc002202; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:23:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:23:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=CptzBf22Jsr8dMpU83lNXnf/bm2H10eifFrO2mA0ilHaJpoPvcn9TShK5WTId6fB; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063524172315138@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Solar Pyramids Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 10:23:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940e0015b663fe957a825464a85c83954a4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.156 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67252 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sounds better than building up more atmospheric CO2 from burning Meteoroil Terry. :-) Fred > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 3/24/2006 9:04:41 AM > Subject: Solar Pyramids > > These seem to have more possibilities than the chimneys: > > http://www.msc-power.co.in/msc1/html/description.asp > > > ___________________________________________________ > Try the New Netscape Mail Today! > Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List > http://mail.netscape.com > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 10:43:18 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2OIgntW030726; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 10:42:50 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2OIgmsb030704; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 10:42:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 10:42:48 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:32:13 -0500 Message-Id: <8C81D88678ED72A-2F18-67BA@mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <8C81D0CC530DF34-22B8-12820@mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <8C81D0CC530DF34-22B8-12820@mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Gravitomagnetic Field Quantified Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.131 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2OIgk84030674 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67253 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net If they had placed the rotating SC inside a magnetic field, they might have succeeded in aligning the lattice ions and blowing the roof off.   <><><><><><><><> http://www.scansite.org/scan.php?pid=157 ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 13:58:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2OLveha030355; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:57:41 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2OLvRVD030223; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:57:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:57:27 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=M4YVAdXQ72AvG0Ig38R0gfq8aJq3ckYWUydBrGtnOaRKuhb9r9ddzxnUU+KaauLE; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063524215715616@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 14:57:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9407c62dc6a5bab95f6ed703e70a97823e7350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.139 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67254 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Posted earlier: > > The Displacement Current in any particle I = C *dV/dt where C = eo * wavelength (hc/E) > sets up an enormous B field. > Another approach is I = q*f where f = c/wavelength = 19.7 amperes for the electron > and 12,056 amperes for each of the three "quarks" in the proton. > > R = wavelength/2(pi) 3.86e-13 meters & 6.3e-16 meters for the radius of > the electron and each of the 3 discs (quarks) stacked side-by-side in the proton > 2 up or plus cw and 1 minus ccw giving an enormous "solenoid-like B field. > > This GSU interactive calculator will give you the value of the B field s. > and total spin mcr = h/2(pi) will give acceleration c^/r > The square root of the ratio of the electrostatic force Fes = kq^2/R^2 = 2.30e-28 nt at 1.0 meter to the gravitational force Fg = 6.67e-11 m^2 = 5.52e-71 for two electron masses at 1.0 meter., ie., = square root of 4.17e42 =2.04e21 is the relativistic gamma of the accelerated B field of the electron which results in a time-dilated charge "hypocharge" (**q) = q/gamma = 1.6e-19/2.04e21 = 7.834e-41 coulombs. OTOH since it is apparent that charge q is a result of EM Field "oscillations", each of the three quarks making up the proton are time-dilated by the square root of Fes/Fg = (2.30e-28/2.04e-65)^1/2 = 3.35e18 thus a "hypocharge" (*q) = 1.6e-19/= 4.76e-38 coulombs. Since there are 1/(5.5e-28 )= 1.82e27 quarks/kilogram ,each with hypocharge 4.76e-38 coulombs the Electrogravity Force = 9.0e9(*q1x *q2/R^2 = 6.67e-11 newtons force between them at 1.0 meter separation Same as conventional Fg). OTOH, If one can develop a hypocharge from a rotating (accelerated B Field) that can couple to that of the earth....? Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
    Posted earlier:
    >
    > The Displacement Current in any particle I = C *dV/dt  where  C = eo * wavelength (hc/E)
    > sets up an enormous B field.
    > Another approach  is I = q*f  where f = c/wavelength = 19.7 amperes for the electron
    > and 12,056 amperes for each of the three "quarks" in the proton. 
    >
    > R =  wavelength/2(pi) 3.86e-13 meters & 6.3e-16 meters for the radius of
    > the electron and each of the 3 discs (quarks) stacked side-by-side in the proton
    > 2 up or plus cw and 1 minus ccw giving an enormous "solenoid-like  B field.
    >
    > This GSU interactive calculator will give you the value of the B field s.
    > and total spin mcr = h/2(pi) will give acceleration c^/r
    >
    The square root of the ratio of the electrostatic force Fes = kq^2/R^2 = 2.30e-28 nt at 1.0 meter
    to the gravitational force Fg = 6.67e-11 m^2 = 5.52e-71 for two electron masses
    at 1.0 meter., ie., =  square root of 4.17e42 =2.04e21 is the relativistic gamma
    of the accelerated B field of the electron which results in a time-dilated charge
    "hypocharge" (**q) = q/gamma = 1.6e-19/2.04e21 = 7.834e-41 coulombs.
     
    OTOH since it is apparent that charge q is a result of EM Field "oscillations",
    each of the three quarks making up the proton are time-dilated  by
    the square root of Fes/Fg = (2.30e-28/2.04e-65)^1/2  = 3.35e18
    thus a "hypocharge" (*q)  = 1.6e-19/= 4.76e-38 coulombs.
     
    Since there are 1/(5.5e-28 )= 1.82e27 quarks/kilogram ,each with hypocharge 4.76e-38
    coulombs the Electrogravity Force = 9.0e9(*q1x *q2/R^2 = 6.67e-11 newtons force
    between them at 1.0 meter separation Same as conventional Fg).
     
    OTOH,  If one can develop a hypocharge from a rotating (accelerated B Field)
    that can couple to that of the earth....?
     
    Fred
     ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 14:12:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2OMCQse005349; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 14:12:27 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2OMCOYC005317; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 14:12:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 14:12:24 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=DGGOPgC24YXg2aUaLv3j1i3CH+RYqqUyZABJhdt2geHUkRWIBRCi0cRX0HOylLRi; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063524221216462@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Cc: "crquin" Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:12:16 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9402485854f8a04c8dd848d238741f9399d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.139 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67255 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII BTW, Before Jones throws a temper tantrum on why Like Charges Can Attract, check out the attraction between like-charge particles moving near c, (Relativistic Electrodynamics). Then argue. :-) Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 3/24/2006 2:58:48 PM Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Posted earlier: > > The Displacement Current in any particle I = C *dV/dt where C = eo * wavelength (hc/E) > sets up an enormous B field. > Another approach is I = q*f where f = c/wavelength = 19.7 amperes for the electron > and 12,056 amperes for each of the three "quarks" in the proton. > > R = wavelength/2(pi) 3.86e-13 meters & 6.3e-16 meters for the radius of > the electron and each of the 3 discs (quarks) stacked side-by-side in the proton > 2 up or plus cw and 1 minus ccw giving an enormous "solenoid-like B field. > > This GSU interactive calculator will give you the value of the B field s. > and total spin mcr = h/2(pi) will give acceleration c^/r > The square root of the ratio of the electrostatic force Fes = kq^2/R^2 = 2.30e-28 nt at 1.0 meter to the gravitational force Fg = 6.67e-11 m^2 = 5.52e-71 for two electron masses at 1.0 meter., ie., = square root of 4.17e42 =2.04e21 is the relativistic gamma of the accelerated B field of the electron which results in a time-dilated charge "hypocharge" (**q) = q/gamma = 1.6e-19/2.04e21 = 7.834e-41 coulombs. OTOH since it is apparent that charge q is a result of EM Field "oscillations", each of the three quarks making up the proton are time-dilated by the square root of Fes/Fg = (2.30e-28/2.04e-65)^1/2 = 3.35e18 thus a "hypocharge" (*q) = 1.6e-19/(3.35e18) = 4.76e-38 coulombs. Since there are 1/(5.5e-28 )= 1.82e27 quarks/kilogram ,each with hypocharge 4.76e-38 coulombs the Electrogravity Force = 9.0e9(*q1x *q2/R^2 = 6.67e-11 newtons force between them at 1.0 meter separation Same as conventional Fg). OTOH, If one can develop a hypocharge from a rotating (accelerated B Field) that can couple to that of the earth....? Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
    BTW, Before Jones throws a temper tantrum on why Like Charges
    Can Attract, check out the attraction between like-charge particles
    moving near c, (Relativistic Electrodynamics).    Then argue.  :-)
     
    Fred
    ----- Original Message -----
    Sent: 3/24/2006 2:58:48 PM
    Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields

    Posted earlier:
    >
    > The Displacement Current in any particle I = C *dV/dt  where  C = eo * wavelength (hc/E)
    > sets up an enormous B field.
    > Another approach  is I = q*f  where f = c/wavelength = 19.7 amperes for the electron
    > and 12,056 amperes for each of the three "quarks" in the proton. 
    >
    > R =  wavelength/2(pi) 3.86e-13 meters & 6.3e-16 meters for the radius of
    > the electron and each of the 3 discs (quarks) stacked side-by-side in the proton
    > 2 up or plus cw and 1 minus ccw giving an enormous "solenoid-like  B field.
    >
    > This GSU interactive calculator will give you the value of the B field s.
    > and total spin mcr = h/2(pi) will give acceleration c^/r
    >
    The square root of the ratio of the electrostatic force Fes = kq^2/R^2 = 2.30e-28 nt at 1.0 meter
    to the gravitational force Fg = 6.67e-11 m^2 = 5.52e-71 for two electron masses
    at 1.0 meter., ie., =  square root of 4.17e42 =2.04e21 is the relativistic gamma
    of the accelerated B field of the electron which results in a time-dilated charge
    "hypocharge" (**q) = q/gamma = 1.6e-19/2.04e21 = 7.834e-41 coulombs.
     
    OTOH since it is apparent that charge q is a result of EM Field "oscillations",
    each of the three quarks making up the proton are time-dilated  by
    the square root of Fes/Fg = (2.30e-28/2.04e-65)^1/2  = 3.35e18
    thus a "hypocharge" (*q)  = 1.6e-19/(3.35e18) = 4.76e-38 coulombs.
     
    Since there are 1/(5.5e-28 )= 1.82e27 quarks/kilogram ,each with hypocharge 4.76e-38
    coulombs the Electrogravity Force = 9.0e9(*q1x *q2/R^2 = 6.67e-11 newtons force
    between them at 1.0 meter separation Same as conventional Fg).
     
    OTOH,  If one can develop a hypocharge from a rotating (accelerated B Field)
    that can couple to that of the earth....?
     
    Fred
    ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 15:05:12 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2OMuEwv025001; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 14:57:34 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2OMuCLV024977; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 14:56:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 14:56:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: FZNIDARSIC@aol.com Message-ID: <1bf.760a71.3155d307@aol.com> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:56:07 EST Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1143240967" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5022 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <42PM0C.A.NGG.MkHJEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67256 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1143240967 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OTOH, If one can develop a hypocharge from a rotating (accelerated B Field) that can couple to that of the earth....? Fred Thank you Fred I did a similar analysis and computed the gravitational field gm/rr produced by the acceleration of a trapped energy field. This analysis was published in Infinite Energy is a version of it is located at: _http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chapter7.html#Pg7_ (http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chapter7.html#Pg7) enjoy Frank Znidarsic -------------------------------1143240967 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    OTOH,  If one can develop a hypocharge from a rotat= ing=20 (accelerated B Field)
    that can couple to that of the earth....?
     
    Fred
     
    Thank you Fred
     
    I did a similar analysis and computed the gravitational field gm/rr produced by the acceleration of a trapped energy field.  This analysis was published in Infinite Energy is a version of it is located at:
     
     
    enjoy
     
    Frank Znidarsic
     ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 17:33:12 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2P1X1KI021190; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:33:01 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2P1WxvE021167; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:32:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:32:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=ix.netcom.com; b=OlIumOTEIUOMGc0rKf5EesE8q1En/iFWUEph3eux08sM8k+tUMaznkOPUzcq/5Qd; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006352417331520@ix.netcom.com> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: aki@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.1.47.0 (Windows) From: "" To: "vortex-l" Subject: FW: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday March 24, 2006 Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:33:15 -00 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: c4cc7f5f697e8746f66dc3a06d5924d8c5b1c07b13ef5dc37a01a7a2e25edccb8858d97c050d2b86350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 216.175.87.51 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67259 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: forwarded by aki@ix.netcom.com (Akira Kawasaki) > [Original Message] > From: What's New To: Date: 3/24/2006 10:00:25 PM Subject: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday March 24, 2006 WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 24 Mar 06 Washington, DC 1. MIRACLE MEDICINE: WASH POST HYPES PRAYER STUDY ON PAGE ONE. Today, in a major front-page story, staff writer Rob Stein tells us that "the largest, best-designed study of intercessory prayer" is being published in two weeks. What does it say? The secret is guarded as tightly as the Academy Awards. However, as I write this, the world population clock reads 6,505,424,096. Most of them pray. A bunch of them pray 5 times a day. They pray mostly for their health, or that of loved ones, making prayer by far the most widely practiced medical therapy. It's a wonder anyone is still sick. No one doubts that personal "petitionary" prayer benefits believers. Optimism is good medicine. To the believer, prayer is a stronger placebo than sugar pills. Stein, however, has his facts wrong. The controversy (if there ever was one among scientists) was settled in 1872 by Sir Francis Galton when he published "Statistical Inquiries into the Efficacy of Prayer." Galton, a cousin of Charles Darwin, recognized that remote prayer by strangers would be blind to the placebo effect. Since the Order for Morning Prayer of the Church of England includes prayers for the health and long life of the monarch and the archbishop, he compared their longevity to that of the general population and found no difference. So who is doing this new study? Herbert Benson, founder and president of the Mind-Body Institute, who touted the health benefits of prayer in his 1975 bestseller "The Relaxation Effect." It would be a miracle if he now discovers there's nothing to it. It's in our hands now, we have two weeks to pray that the study turns out to be objective. 2. MOUSE MEDICINE: CONTROVERSIAL CURE FOR DIABETES IS VERIFIED. Today's Science magazine carries reports by three separate groups verifying a controversial cure for Type I diabetes in mice. First reported by Denise Faustman in 2001, the treatment induces the pancreas to repair itself in half to two-thirds of the cases, which many researchers thought was impossible. The findings are encouraging, but there is a long history of cures for disease in mice that do not work out in humans. However, a waiting list of 600 is clamoring for human trials. The alternative is prayer. 3. THE H-PRIZE: WOULD INCENTIVES HASTEN TRANSITION TO HYDROGEN? Rep. Bob Inglis (R-SC), Research Subcommittee Chair, announced that next week he will introduce legislation to create a major new incentive of perhaps $100 million to overcome scientific and technical barriers to a hydrogen economy. Like maybe the First Law of Thermodynamics? Inglis was inspired by the "success" of the Ansari X-Prize, which awarded $10 million for bringing a few minutes of space sickness into the lives of the rich and bored. 4. JUST A THEORY: ANGLICAN LEADER SPEAKS OUT ABOUT CREATIONISM. The Archbishop of Canterbury, told The Guardian on Tuesday that creationism devalues the Bible as "just another theory." His choice of words was ironic in view of the anti-evolution slogan. THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND. Opinions are the author's and not necessarily shared by the University of Maryland, but they should be. --- Archives of What's New can be found at http://www.bobpark.org What's New is moving to a different listserver and our subscription process has changed. To change your subscription status please visit this link: http://listserv.umd.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=bobparks-whatsnew&A=1 From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 17:36:08 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2P1ZvGS022570; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:35:58 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2P1ZuaW022554; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:35:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:35:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=nsq2ZgLyfMd6Y/DEWOW6H/mM/JeaezmxVLoABFhfnAoGwakQF8LOufsnaH15Nu/5; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006362513546549@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 18:35:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940f150f0b996223b269e096bb6cf11a49d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.165.17 Resent-Message-ID: <8qhhyB.A.WgF.75JJEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67260 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Blast it. I need new glasses. And for each of the ~312 MeV proton quarks: Electrogravity Frequency (* f ) = E/(gamma*h) = 22,49 KHz That's why Terry can hear the "Buzz" of Alien Craft as they maneuver. :-) Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 3/24/2006 6:04:44 PM Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Nice work, Frank. However, before I pack it in and switch to playing Scrabble for a challenge that offers rewards. :-) In order to get around the Hypocharge attraction-repulsion problem, the derived relativistic gamma suggests that Electrogravity Field may be an oscillating field: For the 0.51 MeV electron an Electrogravity Frequency (** f ) = E/(gamma*h) = 0.060 Hz And for each of the ~312 MeV proton quarks: Electrogravity frequency (* f ) = E/(gamma*h) = 1.8 Hz. Does that fit in the box, Frank? Fred > > > The square root of the ratio of the electrostatic force Fes = kq^2/R^2 = 2.30e-28 nt at 1.0 meter > to the gravitational force Fg = 6.67e-11 m^2 = 5.52e-71 for two electron masses > at 1.0 meter., ie., = square root of 4.17e42 =2.04e21 is the relativistic gamma > of the accelerated B field of the electron which results in a time-dilated charge > "hypocharge" (**q) = q/gamma = 1.6e-19/2.04e21 = 7.834e-41 coulombs. > > OTOH since it is apparent that charge q is a result of EM Field "oscillations", > each of the three quarks making up the proton are time-dilated by > the square root of Fes/Fg = (2.30e-28/2.04e-65)^1/2 = 3.35e18 > thus a "hypocharge" (*q) = 1.6e-19/(3.35e18) = 4.76e-38 coulombs. > > Since there are 1/(5.5e-28 )= 1.82e27 quarks/kilogram ,each with hypocharge 4.76e-38 > coulombs the Electrogravity Force = 9.0e9(*q1x *q2/R^2 = 6.67e-11 newtons force > between them at 1.0 meter separation Same as conventional Fg). > > OTOH, If one can develop a hypocharge from a rotating (accelerated B Field) > that can couple to that of the earth....? > ----- Original Message ----- From: To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 3/24/2006 4:05:44 PM Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields OTOH, If one can develop a hypocharge from a rotating (accelerated B Field) that can couple to that of the earth....? Fred Thank you Fred I did a similar analysis and computed the gravitational field gm/rr produced by the acceleration of a trapped energy field. This analysis was published in Infinite Energy is a version of it is located at: http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chapter7.html#Pg7 enjoy Frank Znidarsic ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
    Blast it. I need new glasses. 
     
     
    And for each of the ~312 MeV proton quarks:
     
    Electrogravity Frequency (* f ) = E/(gamma*h) = 22,49 KHz
     
    That's why Terry can hear the "Buzz" of Alien Craft as they maneuver.  :-)
     
    Fred
     
    ----- Original Message -----
    Sent: 3/24/2006 6:04:44 PM
    Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields

    Nice work, Frank.
     
    However, before I pack it in and switch to playing Scrabble for a challenge that offers rewards.   :-)
     
    In order to get around the Hypocharge attraction-repulsion problem, the
    derived relativistic gamma suggests that Electrogravity Field may be an
    oscillating field:
     
    For the 0.51 MeV electron an Electrogravity Frequency (** f ) = E/(gamma*h) =  0.060 Hz
     
    And for each of the ~312 MeV proton quarks:
     
    Electrogravity frequency (* f ) = E/(gamma*h) = 1.8 Hz.
     
    Does that fit in the box, Frank?
     
    Fred
    >
    >
    > The square root of the ratio of the electrostatic force Fes = kq^2/R^2 = 2.30e-28 nt at 1.0 meter
    > to the gravitational force Fg = 6.67e-11 m^2 = 5.52e-71 for two electron masses
    > at 1.0 meter., ie., =  square root of 4.17e42 =2.04e21 is the relativistic gamma
    > of the accelerated B field of the electron which results in a time-dilated charge
    > "hypocharge" (**q) = q/gamma = 1.6e-19/2.04e21 = 7.834e-41 coulombs.
    >
    > OTOH since it is apparent that charge q is a result of EM Field "oscillations",
    > each of the three quarks making up the proton are time-dilated  by
    > the square root of Fes/Fg = (2.30e-28/2.04e-65)^1/2  = 3.35e18
    > thus a "hypocharge" (*q)  = 1.6e-19/(3.35e18) = 4.76e-38 coulombs.
    >
    > Since there are 1/(5.5e-28 )= 1.82e27 quarks/kilogram ,each with hypocharge 4.76e-38
    > coulombs the Electrogravity Force = 9.0e9(*q1x *q2/R^2 = 6.67e-11 newtons force
    > between them at 1.0 meter separation Same as conventional Fg).
    >
    > OTOH,  If one can develop a hypocharge from a rotating (accelerated B Field)
    > that can couple to that of the earth....?
    >
    ----- Original Message -----
    From:
    Sent: 3/24/2006 4:05:44 PM
    Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields

    OTOH,  If one can develop a hypocharge from a rotating (accelerated B Field)
    that can couple to that of the earth....?
     
    Fred
     
    Thank you Fred
     
    I did a similar analysis and computed the gravitational field gm/rr produced by the acceleration of a trapped energy field.  This analysis was published in Infinite Energy is a version of it is located at:
     
     
    enjoy
     
    Frank Znidarsic
    ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 19:53:24 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2P3r74s003323; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:53:08 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2P3r6po003297; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:53:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:53:06 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=pacbell.net; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=R88v5cGgC82mWNmnFRCfPDlgCFN5fpgr1NDQ4bugo5EAJXJNPqvIDm1G0sicLBVZ/ipNn/zIYYMwC992JqmzCFacVtOxTjcEBKAuu5kMHPAYlCAh/0+Beul9i8jDLBrZXKCmjTu6ILFFgumGuxsEb0wwGaXKd5fpaCBS8A3h3ek= ; Message-ID: <20060325035305.25117.qmail@web81106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:53:05 -0800 (PST) From: Jones Beene Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields To: vortex-l In-Reply-To: <410-22006362513546549@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67261 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --- Fred > And for each of the ~312 MeV proton quarks: > Electrogravity Frequency (* f ) = E/(gamma*h) = > 22,49 KHz Coincidentally close to an often-used sonofusion frequency , eh? From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 06:55:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2PEtblj027326; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 06:55:37 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2PEtLfw027224; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 06:55:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 06:55:21 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 09:55:15 -0500 Message-Id: <8C81E3342C36815-DEC-13989@mblkn-m14.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <410-22006362513546549@earthlink.net> <8C81E3326D30845-DEC-13984@mblkn-m14.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <8C81E3326D30845-DEC-13984@mblkn-m14.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.132 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2PEtKhk027199 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67262 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message-----  From: Frederick Sparber       That's why Terry can hear the "Buzz" of Alien Craft as they maneuver.  :-)    <><><><><><><>    I haven't heard much above 10 kHz since The Who's Quadrophnenia concert. :-)    Terry  ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 07:10:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2PFAI1k001284; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 07:10:18 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2PFAGtv001261; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 07:10:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 07:10:16 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=DwpXN4xdQCZlpmISh0oTlfqLEgaUJnXJyspLWnr4RdsVgSRFch6Bmn6Yw6UY6rDh; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006362515956918@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:09:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9400ed509083d90b43427117c7d26f38c77350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.133 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67263 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Former vortex member Robert Stirniman's work on Electrogravity/Gravitomagnetic Fields. http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583/project124.html There are two types of oscillations in a particle, one that gives a steady-state relativistic charge ( q ) and the other time-dilated E Field due to an acceleration effect, a = dv/dt resulting in a periodic Electrogravity field with a 1/R^2 force interaction. Some applets showing constant angular velocity/acceleration and time-varying tangential acceleration a = dv/dt works for a rotating B Field resulting in E = dB/dt Etc. http://aleph0.clarku.edu/~djoyce/java/trig/tangents.html http://www.phas.ucalgary.ca/physlets/circmotion.htm http://www.mhhe.com/physsci/physical/jones/graphics/jones2001phys_s/ch05/others/5-1/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 3/24/2006 6:36:33 PM Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Blast it. I need new glasses. And for each of the ~312 MeV proton quarks: Electrogravity Frequency (* f ) = E/(gamma*h) = 22,49 KHz That's why Terry can hear the "Buzz" of Alien Craft as they maneuver. :-) Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 3/24/2006 6:04:44 PM Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Nice work, Frank. However, before I pack it in and switch to playing Scrabble for a challenge that offers rewards. :-) In order to get around the Hypocharge attraction-repulsion problem, the derived relativistic gamma suggests that Electrogravity Field may be an oscillating field: For the 0.51 MeV electron an Electrogravity Frequency (** f ) = E/(gamma*h) = 0.060 Hz And for each of the ~312 MeV proton quarks: Electrogravity frequency (* f ) = E/(gamma*h) = 1.8 Hz. Does that fit in the box, Frank? Fred > > > The square root of the ratio of the electrostatic force Fes = kq^2/R^2 = 2.30e-28 nt at 1.0 meter > to the gravitational force Fg = 6.67e-11 m^2 = 5.52e-71 for two electron masses > at 1.0 meter., ie., = square root of 4.17e42 =2.04e21 is the relativistic gamma > of the accelerated B field of the electron which results in a time-dilated charge > "hypocharge" (**q) = q/gamma = 1.6e-19/2.04e21 = 7.834e-41 coulombs. > > OTOH since it is apparent that charge q is a result of EM Field "oscillations", > each of the three quarks making up the proton are time-dilated by > the square root of Fes/Fg = (2.30e-28/2.04e-65)^1/2 = 3.35e18 > thus a "hypocharge" (*q) = 1.6e-19/(3.35e18) = 4.76e-38 coulombs. > > Since there are 1/(5.5e-28 )= 1.82e27 quarks/kilogram ,each with hypocharge 4.76e-38 > coulombs the Electrogravity Force = 9.0e9(*q1x *q2/R^2 = 6.67e-11 newtons force > between them at 1.0 meter separation Same as conventional Fg). > > OTOH, If one can develop a hypocharge from a rotating (accelerated B Field) > that can couple to that of the earth....? > ----- Original Message ----- From: To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 3/24/2006 4:05:44 PM Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields OTOH, If one can develop a hypocharge from a rotating (accelerated B Field) that can couple to that of the earth....? Fred Thank you Fred I did a similar analysis and computed the gravitational field gm/rr produced by the acceleration of a trapped energy field. This analysis was published in Infinite Energy is a version of it is located at: http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chapter7.html#Pg7 enjoy Frank Znidarsic ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
    Former vortex member Robert Stirniman's work on Electrogravity/Gravitomagnetic Fields.
     
     
     
    There are two types of oscillations in a particle, one that gives a steady-state
    relativistic charge ( q ) and the other time-dilated E Field due to an acceleration effect, a = dv/dt
    resulting in a periodic Electrogravity field with a 1/R^2 force interaction.
     
    Some applets showing constant angular velocity/acceleration and time-varying tangential
    acceleration a =  dv/dt works for a rotating B Field resulting in E = dB/dt Etc.
     
     
    ----- Original Message -----
    Sent: 3/24/2006 6:36:33 PM
    Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields

    Blast it. I need new glasses. 
     
     
    And for each of the ~312 MeV proton quarks:
     
    Electrogravity Frequency (* f ) = E/(gamma*h) = 22,49 KHz
     
    That's why Terry can hear the "Buzz" of Alien Craft as they maneuver.  :-)
     
    Fred
     
    ----- Original Message -----
    Sent: 3/24/2006 6:04:44 PM
    Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields

    Nice work, Frank.
     
    However, before I pack it in and switch to playing Scrabble for a challenge that offers rewards.   :-)
     
    In order to get around the Hypocharge attraction-repulsion problem, the
    derived relativistic gamma suggests that Electrogravity Field may be an
    oscillating field:
     
    For the 0.51 MeV electron an Electrogravity Frequency (** f ) = E/(gamma*h) =  0.060 Hz
     
    And for each of the ~312 MeV proton quarks:
     
    Electrogravity frequency (* f ) = E/(gamma*h) = 1.8 Hz.
     
    Does that fit in the box, Frank?
     
    Fred
    >
    >
    > The square root of the ratio of the electrostatic force Fes = kq^2/R^2 = 2.30e-28 nt at 1.0 meter
    > to the gravitational force Fg = 6.67e-11 m^2 = 5.52e-71 for two electron masses
    > at 1.0 meter., ie., =  square root of 4.17e42 =2.04e21 is the relativistic gamma
    > of the accelerated B field of the electron which results in a time-dilated charge
    > "hypocharge" (**q) = q/gamma = 1.6e-19/2.04e21 = 7.834e-41 coulombs.
    >
    > OTOH since it is apparent that charge q is a result of EM Field "oscillations",
    > each of the three quarks making up the proton are time-dilated  by
    > the square root of Fes/Fg = (2.30e-28/2.04e-65)^1/2  = 3.35e18
    > thus a "hypocharge" (*q)  = 1.6e-19/(3.35e18) = 4.76e-38 coulombs.
    >
    > Since there are 1/(5.5e-28 )= 1.82e27 quarks/kilogram ,each with hypocharge 4.76e-38
    > coulombs the Electrogravity Force = 9.0e9(*q1x *q2/R^2 = 6.67e-11 newtons force
    > between them at 1.0 meter separation Same as conventional Fg).
    >
    > OTOH,  If one can develop a hypocharge from a rotating (accelerated B Field)
    > that can couple to that of the earth....?
    >
    ----- Original Message -----
    From:
    Sent: 3/24/2006 4:05:44 PM
    Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields

    OTOH,  If one can develop a hypocharge from a rotating (accelerated B Field)
    that can couple to that of the earth....?
     
    Fred
     
    Thank you Fred
     
    I did a similar analysis and computed the gravitational field gm/rr produced by the acceleration of a trapped energy field.  This analysis was published in Infinite Energy is a version of it is located at:
     
     
    enjoy
     
    Frank Znidarsic
    ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 07:21:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2PFLEGM005905; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 07:21:18 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2PFLDKC005886; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 07:21:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 07:21:13 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=ogQxJam7Jf+1FkJcPjYYRmAyqBKfsR/0QoXM8aJBbRd0VeEuFAGw87DMNm/QsZf6; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006362515214378@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:21:04 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94024df726d7da70a54bee7ab1540ae9f19350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.133 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67264 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Armageddon (with 120+ dB sound) was the last movie that my grandson and granddaughter treated me to. It cost me $12.00 for tickets and $20.00 for popcorn and cokes. I was impressed by the way Bruce Willis flew the space shuttle around the asteroid debris as though it was an F-15 fighter at 20,000 ft. :-) Fred > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 3/25/2006 7:56:09 AM > Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields > > -----Original Message-----  > From: Frederick Sparber  >   >    > That's why Terry can hear the "Buzz" of Alien Craft as they maneuver.  > :-)  >   > <><><><><><><>  >   > I haven't heard much above 10 kHz since The Who's Quadrophnenia > concert. :-)  >   > Terry  > ___________________________________________________ > Try the New Netscape Mail Today! > Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List > http://mail.netscape.com > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 08:52:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2PGqLKR005152; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:52:21 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2PGqK12005140; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:52:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:52:20 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=pacbell.net; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=N13Q2oJYxS6LPwI65W7666nV8mz+5+pcMTsVDAzCcgwrbfZYo21rhUVgJl56erHLZPlIOXXOVRNkLtHM2hwmKunW48aql6M+6QmAkkAH1FRfZQEJS7b2FJJX7r9A7D7FelujKNDKvAC4vwzXgwtmulF3ARMlpMgfjGFsIH0SuzA= ; Message-ID: <20060325165218.91892.qmail@web81103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:52:18 -0800 (PST) From: Jones Beene Subject: ZPE --> CMB To: vortex-l MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <9eDNCB.A.QQB.DVXJEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67265 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In the current IE, it appears that Takaaki Musha has updated a prior paper: "Cherenkov Radiation from Faster-Than-Light Photons Created in a ZPF Background" by Takaaki Musha Many of us on Vortex have speculated on the connection of the CMB (cosmic microwave background) to ZPE - but I was not previously aware of this paper - which supports that conclusion (but possibly for the wrong reason) as the FTL component (of Musha) is surely to be Dirac "sea" electrons/EPOs rather than his "virtual FTL photons" IMHO. CONCLUSION AND DISCUSSION In this paper, the author evaluates the cosmic background radiation due to the Cherenkov effect from FTL virtual photons created in a ZPF background. The calculated result shows that the spectrum and the mass density of energy due to the Cherenkov radiation almost coincides the cosmic background radiation and it is considered that almost of all energy of the cosmic background radiation is due to the Cherenkov radiation from the FTL photons created in a ZPF background. Generally the cosmic background radiation is considered to be the remnants of the Big Bang of the Universe. However the Big Bang theory must be reconsidered if the cosmic background radiation is created from the ZPF field as the author presented in this article. END Nice work... and at least partly correct. But one implication is that a component of electrograivty is also to be found here... not to mention a prime frequency range in which to attempt to "tap" for ZPE coherence. Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 24 04:52:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2OCqI5O030892; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 04:52:18 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2OCqCue030865; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 04:52:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 04:52:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=MLumzvvZvmW3MCdwuQpej1twMo5cuXgmWOz9UskiZN53tp0fkbd785OOip+BQ090JqlSzli5MToQWWBLMzpLZGcl1sUqo5NPA+CLRmE6RGko8Hek0ZCKmlhW2iWeVLRjlDQLlx/IlwVbOltoY3j6rAZHjtLTrJXyKFp6H9W1uGc= ; Message-ID: <01a301c64f41$c1d973c0$4b01a8c0@colin5fc9e2583> Reply-To: "Colin Quinney" From: "Colin Quinney" To: Cc: "Nick Reiter" Subject: Fw: [antigrav] Gravitomagnetic field measured in lab Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:52:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01A0_01C64F17.D89CE1C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67244 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends5 Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01A0_01C64F17.D89CE1C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Forwarded from the Greenglow List. // Colin ----- Original Message -----=20 From: uncle_slacky=20 To: greenglow@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 7:17 AM Subject: [antigrav] Gravitomagnetic field measured in lab http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEM0L6OVGJE_index_0.html Towards a new test of general relativity? Experiment in ARC Seibersdorf research =20 23 March 2006 Scientists funded by the European Space Agency have measured the=20 gravitational equivalent of a magnetic field for the first time in a=20 laboratory. Under certain special conditions the effect is much=20 larger than expected from general relativity and could help=20 physicists to make a significant step towards the long-sought-after=20 quantum theory of gravity. Just as a moving electrical charge creates a magnetic field, so a=20 moving mass generates a gravitomagnetic field. According to=20 Einstein's Theory of General Relativity, the effect is virtually=20 negligible. However, Martin Tajmar, ARC Seibersdorf Research GmbH,=20 Austria; Clovis de Matos, ESA-HQ, Paris; and colleagues have measured=20 the effect in a laboratory.=20 Their experiment involves a ring of superconducting material rotating=20 up to 6 500 times a minute. Superconductors are special materials=20 that lose all electrical resistance at a certain temperature.=20 Spinning superconductors produce a weak magnetic field, the so-called=20 London moment. The new experiment tests a conjecture by Tajmar and de=20 Matos that explains the difference between high-precision mass=20 measurements of Cooper-pairs (the current carriers in=20 superconductors) and their prediction via quantum theory. They have=20 discovered that this anomaly could be explained by the appearance of=20 a gravitomagnetic field in the spinning superconductor (This effect=20 has been named the Gravitomagnetic London Moment by analogy with its=20 magnetic counterpart). Small acceleration sensors placed at different locations close to the=20 spinning superconductor, which has to be accelerated for the effect=20 to be noticeable, recorded an acceleration field outside the=20 superconductor that appears to be produced by gravitomagnetism. "This=20 experiment is the gravitational analogue of Faraday's electromagnetic=20 induction experiment in 1831.=20 It demonstrates that a superconductive gyroscope is capable of=20 generating a powerful gravitomagnetic field, and is therefore the=20 gravitational counterpart of the magnetic coil. Depending on further=20 confirmation, this effect could form the basis for a new=20 technological domain, which would have numerous applications in space=20 and other high-tech sectors" says de Matos. Although just 100=20 millionths of the acceleration due to the Earth's gravitational=20 field, the measured field is a surprising one hundred million=20 trillion times larger than Einstein's General Relativity predicts.=20 Initially, the researchers were reluctant to believe their own=20 results. Gravitomagnetic induction of gravitational fields "We ran more than 250 experiments, improved the facility over 3 years=20 and discussed the validity of the results for 8 months before making=20 this announcement. Now we are confident about the measurement," says=20 Tajmar, who performed the experiments and hopes that other physicists=20 will conduct their own versions of the experiment in order to verify=20 the findings and rule out a facility induced effect.=20 In parallel to the experimental evaluation of their conjecture,=20 Tajmar and de Matos also looked for a more refined theoretical model=20 of the Gravitomagnetic London Moment. They took their inspiration=20 from superconductivity. The electromagnetic properties of=20 superconductors are explained in quantum theory by assuming that=20 force-carrying particles, known as photons, gain mass. By allowing=20 force-carrying gravitational particles, known as the gravitons, to=20 become heavier, they found that the unexpectedly large=20 gravitomagnetic force could be modelled. "If confirmed, this would be a major breakthrough," says Tajmar, "it=20 opens up a new means of investigating general relativity and it=20 consequences in the quantum world."=20 The results were presented at a one-day conference at ESA's European=20 Space and Technology Research Centre (ESTEC), in the Netherlands, 21=20 March 2006. Two papers detailing the work are now being considered=20 for publication. The papers can be accessed on-line at the Los Alamos=20 pre-print server using the references: gr-qc/0603033 and gr- qc/0603032.=20 For more detailed information, please contact:=20 Dipl-Ing Dr Martin Tajmar Head of Business Field Space Propulsion ARC Seibersdorf research GmbH A-2444 Seibersdorf Austria Phone: +43 (0)5 05 50 31 42 Fax: +43 (0)5 05 50 33 66 Email: martin.tajmar @ arcs.ac.at=20 Web: http://ilfb.tuwien.ac.at/~tajmar Dr Clovis J. de Matos General Studies Officer European Space Agency ESA-HQ Advanced Concepts and Studies Office - EUI-AC 8-10 Rue Mario Nikis 75738 Paris Cedex 15 France Tel: +33 (0)1 53 69 74 98 Fax: +33 (0)1 53 69 76 51 Email: clovis.de.matos @ esa.int=20 Rob To Post a message, send it to: greenglow@yahoogroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: = greenglow-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS=20 a.. Visit your group "greenglow" on the web. =20 b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: greenglow-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com =20 c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of = Service.=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- ------=_NextPart_000_01A0_01C64F17.D89CE1C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Forwarded from the Greenglow List. //=20 Colin
     
    ----- Original Message -----=20
    From: uncle_slacky
    Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 7:17 AM
    Subject: [antigrav] Gravitomagnetic field measured in=20 lab

    http://www.esa= .int/esaCP/SEM0L6OVGJE_index_0.html

    Towards=20 a new test of general relativity?

    Experiment in ARC Seibersdorf=20 research
      
    23 March 2006

    Scientists funded by = the=20 European Space Agency have measured the
    gravitational equivalent of = a=20 magnetic field for the first time in a
    laboratory. Under certain = special=20 conditions the effect is much
    larger than expected from general = relativity=20 and could help
    physicists to make a significant step towards the=20 long-sought-after
    quantum theory of gravity.

    Just as a moving = electrical charge creates a magnetic field, so a
    moving mass = generates a=20 gravitomagnetic field. According to
    Einstein's Theory of General = Relativity,=20 the effect is virtually
    negligible. However, Martin Tajmar, ARC = Seibersdorf=20 Research GmbH,
    Austria; Clovis de Matos, ESA-HQ, Paris; and = colleagues have=20 measured
    the effect in a laboratory.

    Their experiment = involves a=20 ring of superconducting material rotating
    up to 6 500 times a = minute.=20 Superconductors are special materials
    that lose all electrical = resistance at=20 a certain temperature.
    Spinning superconductors produce a weak = magnetic=20 field, the so-called
    London moment. The new experiment tests a = conjecture by=20 Tajmar and de
    Matos that explains the difference between = high-precision mass=20
    measurements of Cooper-pairs (the current carriers in =
    superconductors)=20 and their prediction via quantum theory. They have
    discovered that = this=20 anomaly could be explained by the appearance of
    a gravitomagnetic = field in=20 the spinning superconductor (This effect
    has been named the = Gravitomagnetic=20 London Moment by analogy with its
    magnetic = counterpart).

    Small=20 acceleration sensors placed at different locations close to the =
    spinning=20 superconductor, which has to be accelerated for the effect
    to be = noticeable,=20 recorded an acceleration field outside the
    superconductor that = appears to be=20 produced by gravitomagnetism. "This
    experiment is the gravitational = analogue=20 of Faraday's electromagnetic
    induction experiment in 1831. =

    It=20 demonstrates that a superconductive gyroscope is capable of =
    generating a=20 powerful gravitomagnetic field, and is therefore the
    gravitational=20 counterpart of the magnetic coil. Depending on further
    confirmation, = this=20 effect could form the basis for a new
    technological domain, which = would have=20 numerous applications in space
    and other high-tech sectors" says de = Matos.=20 Although just 100
    millionths of the acceleration due to the Earth's=20 gravitational
    field, the measured field is a surprising one hundred = million=20
    trillion times larger than Einstein's General Relativity predicts.=20
    Initially, the researchers were reluctant to believe their own=20
    results.

    Gravitomagnetic induction of gravitational = fields

    "We=20 ran more than 250 experiments, improved the facility over 3 years =
    and=20 discussed the validity of the results for 8 months before making =
    this=20 announcement. Now we are confident about the measurement," says =
    Tajmar, who=20 performed the experiments and hopes that other physicists
    will = conduct their=20 own versions of the experiment in order to verify
    the findings and = rule out=20 a facility induced effect.

    In parallel to the experimental = evaluation of=20 their conjecture,
    Tajmar and de Matos also looked for a more refined = theoretical model
    of the Gravitomagnetic London Moment. They took = their=20 inspiration
    from superconductivity. The electromagnetic properties = of=20
    superconductors are explained in quantum theory by assuming that=20
    force-carrying particles, known as photons, gain mass. By allowing=20
    force-carrying gravitational particles, known as the gravitons, to=20
    become heavier, they found that the unexpectedly large =
    gravitomagnetic=20 force could be modelled.

    "If confirmed, this would be a major=20 breakthrough," says Tajmar, "it
    opens up a new means of = investigating=20 general relativity and it
    consequences in the quantum world." =

    The=20 results were presented at a one-day conference at ESA's European =
    Space and=20 Technology Research Centre (ESTEC), in the Netherlands, 21
    March = 2006. Two=20 papers detailing the work are now being considered
    for publication. = The=20 papers can be accessed on-line at the Los Alamos
    pre-print server = using the=20 references: gr-qc/0603033 and gr-
    qc/0603032.

    For more = detailed=20 information, please contact:

    Dipl-Ing Dr Martin Tajmar
    Head = of=20 Business Field Space Propulsion
    ARC Seibersdorf research = GmbH
    A-2444=20 Seibersdorf
    Austria
    Phone: +43 (0)5 05 50 31 42
    Fax: +43 (0)5 = 05 50 33=20 66
    Email: martin.tajmar @ arcs.ac.at
    Web: http://ilfb.tuwien.ac.at/~tajma= r


    Dr=20 Clovis J. de Matos
    General Studies Officer
    European Space Agency=20 ESA-HQ
    Advanced Concepts and Studies Office - EUI-AC
    8-10 Rue = Mario=20 Nikis
    75738 Paris Cedex 15
    France
    Tel: +33 (0)1 53 69 74 = 98
    Fax: +33=20 (0)1 53 69 76 51
    Email: clovis.de.matos @ esa.int=20

    Rob






    To=20 Post a message, send it to:   = greenglow@yahoogroups.com

    To=20 Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: = greenglow-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com    =20


    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

    •  Visit your group "greenglow" on the = web.
       
    •  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20 to:
       greenglow-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
             =20
    •  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of = Service.=20


    ------=_NextPart_000_01A0_01C64F17.D89CE1C0-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 10:23:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2PINGGu000564; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:23:16 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2PINElP000546; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:23:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:23:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=gZJBPctgFxfb5BexeOcNiUzEaCo0oa+EUnfKYhv0TL96y74eEHXWZFrET5vElf8t; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006362518232187@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 11:23:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94015bb8f1d12eeea5da3375f5c0321ad42350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.221 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67266 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII The proposed ~22.5 Kilohertz Electrogravity Field has a wavelength of 8+ miles. It doesn't seem necessary to use a rotating/accelerated Magnetic Field to get this field when there are-should-be other electrical options. 9.8 kilojoule/sec (10 KW) expended in the right manner can levitate a metric ton at a meter/second. Fred BTW, Ever get a craving for cheese? Terry? :-) "Mice Join the Motley Chorus of Mammals Who Sing, Study Shows" "Far above the range of human hearing, male mice are warbling what may be love songs that are remarkably birdlike, according to a study in the Nov. 1 Public Library of Science Biology journal. Excited by the scent of a female, each of the laboratory- bred minstrels has a signature ultrasonic song, said lead author Timothy Holy in an interview yesterday. The black mice join humans, whales and bats in the small group of mammals that sing, researchers said. Mice have been recorded at 20 hertz to 100 kHz. Humans hear sounds up to about 23 kilohertz, while a traditional mouse predator, the cat, can hear noise as high as 64 kHz. The scientists had started out only to record the amount of vocalizations by male mice exposed to scents from females, males or a mix of the two." ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
    The proposed ~22.5 Kilohertz Electrogravity Field has a wavelength of 8+ miles.
    It doesn't seem necessary to use a rotating/accelerated Magnetic Field to
    get this field when there are-should-be other electrical options.
     
    9.8 kilojoule/sec (10 KW) expended in the right manner can levitate a metric ton
    at a meter/second. 
     
    Fred
     
    BTW, Ever get a craving for cheese?   Terry?  :-)
     
     
    "Mice Join the Motley Chorus of Mammals Who Sing, Study Shows"
     
    "Far above the range of human hearing, male mice are warbling what may be love songs that are remarkably birdlike, according to a study in the Nov. 1 Public Library of Science Biology journal.
    Excited by the scent of a female, each of the laboratory- bred minstrels has a signature ultrasonic song, said lead author Timothy Holy in an interview yesterday. The black mice join humans, whales and bats in the small group of mammals that sing, researchers said.
    Mice have been recorded at 20 hertz to 100 kHz. Humans hear sounds up to about 23 kilohertz, while a traditional mouse predator, the cat, can hear noise as high as 64 kHz. The scientists had started out only to record the amount of vocalizations by male mice exposed to scents from females, males or a mix of the two."
    ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 11:51:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2PJoov1030450; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 11:50:50 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2PJomZx030426; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 11:50:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 11:50:48 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 14:50:44 -0500 Message-Id: <8C81E5C89A0079B-2F18-83DA@mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <410-22006362518232187@earthlink.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <410-22006362518232187@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.131 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2PJojxQ030386 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67267 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Frederick Sparber BTW, Ever get a craving for cheese?   Terry?  :-)     "Mice Join the Motley Chorus of Mammals Who Sing, Study Shows" <><><><><><><> It isn't surprising those tiny little eardrums are able to hear such short wavelengths. ;-) Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 12:01:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2PK0oQD001840; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:00:51 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2PK0mPY001816; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:00:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:00:48 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=NaDkLD97VlpkSnwPH00kCRgPj4nH/IJiEFuykctJRdcJwBptIBUmEXvI9OgOzLYh; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006362520022611@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Cc: "crquin" Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 13:00:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940f8af1537c237d4da1fdb7631ed2f02ce350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.203 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67268 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Interesting equipment these European experimenters use. http://www.vlf.it/ Some puzzling peaks at ~ 12 KHz & ~ 22 KHz http://www.vlf.it/ed/earthprobes.html Very Low Frequency (VLF) 9 KHz to 30 KHz: http://www.jneuhaus.com/fccindex/10_khz.html#10_KHz ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
    Interesting equipment these European experimenters use.
     
     
     
    Some puzzling peaks at ~ 12 KHz & ~ 22 KHz
     
     
     
    Very Low Frequency (VLF) 9 KHz to 30 KHz:
     
    ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 12:21:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2PKLGk3011228; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:21:16 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2PKLDEc011200; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:21:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:21:13 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=pacbell.net; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=CaxWqE+UqsHgPV/oRHzAlCSgQIVRa2YbVRxZTQq4fpvp8AmrzlgmgL3qW09EICL4zGYEh2DDFOo10Xwpz0wKKvReQg0qLdWtawvG7inDjsEzPasRaPCLwSfVTU0cZF16F31w8Z7i3xXKCyaCX/WCIF4Dlb6FOZUNA0sq59xOmCg= ; Message-ID: <20060325202109.61821.qmail@web81108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:21:09 -0800 (PST) From: Jones Beene Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields To: vortex-l In-Reply-To: <410-22006362518232187@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67269 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --- Fred > The proposed ~22.5 Kilohertz Electrogravity Field > has a wavelength of 8+ miles. > It doesn't seem necessary to use a > rotating/accelerated Magnetic Field to > get this field when there are-should-be other > electrical options. > > 9.8 kilojoule/sec (10 KW) expended in the right > manner can levitate a metric ton > at a meter/second. Next time Bill Gates calls for advice, tell him he can take a blank silicon disk, sputter it with an HTSC - like magnesium boride, and then send it to micro-lithography to etch an 8+ mile long spiral on it... piece of cake really, as you could get at least a hundred mile long spiral with the thinest line possible. Chill, spin over a magnet & hope no one is in the offices directly above the experiment ... From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 13:10:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2PLACja027199; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 13:10:13 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2PLAAV5027181; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 13:10:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 13:10:10 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2006-03-10) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.1 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Message-ID: <001e01c65050$79093490$ab037841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: References: <20060325165218.91892.qmail@web81103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: ZPE --> CMB Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 15:09:57 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67270 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Howdy Jones,. I like it... Jones has enough "elastic" in his brain to wrap around most any concept and peer within, plus describe his pros and cons. This one is a mind bender ,the stuff Jones loves. You must be one self amusing person. rare breed indeed. Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex-l" Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 10:52 AM Subject: ZPE --> CMB > In the current IE, it appears that Takaaki Musha has > updated a prior paper: > > "Cherenkov Radiation from Faster-Than-Light Photons > Created in a ZPF Background" by Takaaki Musha > > Many of us on Vortex have speculated on the connection > of the CMB (cosmic microwave background) to ZPE - but > I was not previously aware of this paper - which > supports that conclusion (but possibly for the wrong > reason) as the FTL component (of Musha) is surely to > be Dirac "sea" electrons/EPOs rather than his > "virtual FTL photons" IMHO. > > CONCLUSION AND DISCUSSION In this paper, the author > evaluates the cosmic background radiation due to the > Cherenkov effect from FTL virtual photons created in a > ZPF background. > > The calculated result shows that the spectrum and the > mass density of energy due to the Cherenkov radiation > almost coincides the cosmic background radiation and > it is considered that almost of all energy of the > cosmic background radiation is due to the Cherenkov > radiation from the FTL photons created in a ZPF > background. > > Generally the cosmic background radiation is > considered to be the remnants of the Big Bang of the > Universe. However the Big Bang theory must be > reconsidered if the cosmic background radiation is > created from the ZPF field as the author presented in > this article. > > END > > Nice work... and at least partly correct. But one > implication is that a component of electrograivty is > also to be found here... not to mention a prime > frequency range in which to attempt to "tap" for ZPE > coherence. > > Jones > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Mar 25 18:17:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2Q2HIFP032765; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 18:17:18 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2Q2HGTH032748; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 18:17:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 18:17:16 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=nLPoB3lN/tuqW2CxR3IeJtuHmkj4DJ5JUabW3B/RAXYA4KX/sEwE2wVdL/JxFyL6; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063026217599@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 19:17:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9404f60b9f91e4bdbfcd5fc20711f3f2f21350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.55 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67271 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII No need for all that high tech stuff, Jones. The capacitance equivalent of 1.0e-11 coulombs/kg to set up an electric dipole field oscillating at around 22.5 KHz demands a capacitor designed for 1.0e-8 coulombs/tonne at 10,000 joules (0.5 CV^2 minimum energy). Borrowing from Terry's experience with MUFON on the CompuServe "Encounters" Forum, a can-within-a-can craft with a vacuum dielectric (easy to get good vacuum once you get into space) operating at a 1/2 megavolt potential (more or less) is snap to design. Q = CV = 1.0e-8 coulombs With required E = 10,000 joule = 0..5 CV^2 Setting V^2= (500,000)^2 volts (at 0.2 meter spacing for 2.5 million volts/meter E-field) C = Q/V = 1.0e-8/5.0e5 = 2.0e-14 farad. Trial: E= 0.5 * 2.0e-14* 2.5e11= 2.5e-3 joule. Way too low, need to increase capacitance by 4 million times to 8.0e-8 farad. C = 8.0e-8 = 8.854e-12 x Area/0.2 Can-in-a-shell Area = 8.0e-8 x 0.2/8.854e-12 = 1810 square meters of super-light can-in-a-shell material for the craft. Volume? With CAD you can home in on it. :-) Fred Jones Beene wrote: > --- Fred > >> The proposed ~22.5 Kilohertz Electrogravity Field >> has a wavelength of 8+ miles. >> It doesn't seem necessary to use a >> rotating/accelerated Magnetic Field to >> get this field when there are-should-be other >> electrical options. > >> 9.8 kilojoule/sec (10 KW) expended in the right >> manner can levitate a metric ton >> at a meter/second. > > Next time Bill Gates calls for advice, tell him he can > take a blank silicon disk, sputter it with an HTSC - > like magnesium boride, and then send it to > micro-lithography to etch an 8+ mile long spiral on > it... > ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
    No need for all that high tech stuff, Jones.
     
    The capacitance equivalent of 1.0e-11 coulombs/kg to set up an electric
    dipole field oscillating at around 22.5 KHz demands a capacitor designed
    for 1.0e-8 coulombs/tonne at 10,000 joules (0.5 CV^2 minimum energy).
     
    Borrowing from Terry's experience with MUFON on the CompuServe
    "Encounters" Forum, a can-within-a-can craft with a vacuum dielectric
    (easy to get good vacuum once you get into space) operating at a 1/2 megavolt potential
    (more or less) is snap to design.
     
    Q = CV  = 1.0e-8 coulombs  With  required E = 10,000  joule = 0..5 CV^2
     
    Setting V^2=  (500,000)^2 volts  (at 0.2 meter spacing for 2.5 million volts/meter E-field)
    C =  Q/V = 1.0e-8/5.0e5 = 2.0e-14 farad.
     
    Trial: E= 0.5 * 2.0e-14* 2.5e11= 2.5e-3 joule. Way too low, need to increase
    capacitance by 4 million times to 8.0e-8 farad.
    C = 8.0e-8 = 8.854e-12 x Area/0.2
    Can-in-a-shell Area = 8.0e-8 x 0.2/8.854e-12 = 1810 square meters of super-light can-in-a-shell
    material for the craft.
    Volume?
    With CAD you can home in on it.  :-)
     
    Fred
     
    Jones Beene wrote:
    > --- Fred
    >
    >> The proposed ~22.5 Kilohertz Electrogravity Field
    >> has a wavelength of 8+ miles.
    >> It doesn't seem necessary to use a
    >> rotating/accelerated Magnetic Field to
    >> get this field when there are-should-be other
    >> electrical options.
    >
    >> 9.8 kilojoule/sec (10 KW) expended in the right
    >> manner can levitate a metric ton
    >> at a meter/second.
    >
    > Next time Bill Gates calls for advice, tell him he can
    > take a blank silicon disk, sputter it with an HTSC -
    > like magnesium boride, and then send it to
    > micro-lithography to etch an 8+ mile long spiral on
    > it...
    >  
    ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 26 03:50:06 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2QBnnPO002492; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 03:49:49 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2QBnl2v002477; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 03:49:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 03:49:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=rTyl1E/tuONEarXpUJVb0v6BodqIxS5ozbIRmQz4/AEvHtAdIkftm4c493cuqz6S; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063026114937297@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Cc: "crquin" Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 04:49:37 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9408c616e63dc759519333ab2d628a11d41350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.210 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67272 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Posted yesterday. > > No need for all that high tech stuff, Jones. > > The capacitance equivalent of 1.0e-11 coulombs/kg to set up an electric > dipole field oscillating at around 22.5 KHz demands a capacitor designed > for 1.0e-8 coulombs/tonne at 10,000 joules (0.5 CV^2 minimum energy). > > Borrowing from Terry's experience with MUFON on the CompuServe > "Encounters" Forum, a can-within-a-can craft with a vacuum dielectric > (easy to get good vacuum once you get into space) operating at a 1/2 megavolt potential > (more or less) is snap to design. > > Q = CV = 1.0e-8 coulombs With required E = 10,000 joule = 0..5 CV^2 > Nick Reiter shows prior art on a similar design, but he didn't employ the necessary 22.5 Kilohertz Electrogravity E field: http://www.theavalonfoundation.org/hemiscap.htm Gyogyitokezek makes the same mistake: :-) http://www.gyogyitokezek.hu/fe/ethrform.htm http://www.gyogyitokezek.hu/fe/fullcylsph.htm http://www.gyogyitokezek.hu/fe/capgen.htm http://www.gyogyitokezek.hu/fe/dielforce.htm http://www.gyogyitokezek.hu/fe/dielcapgen.htm http://www.gyogyitokezek.hu/fe/dielphpump.htm Variations in design are obvious to those skilled in the art. :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
    Posted yesterday.
    >
    > No need for all that high tech stuff, Jones.
    >
    > The capacitance equivalent of 1.0e-11 coulombs/kg to set up an electric
    > dipole field oscillating at around 22.5 KHz demands a capacitor designed
    > for 1.0e-8 coulombs/tonne at 10,000 joules (0.5 CV^2 minimum energy).
    >
    > Borrowing from Terry's experience with MUFON on the CompuServe
    > "Encounters" Forum, a can-within-a-can craft with a vacuum dielectric
    > (easy to get good vacuum once you get into space) operating at a 1/2 megavolt potential
    > (more or less) is snap to design.
    >
    > Q = CV  = 1.0e-8 coulombs  With  required E = 10,000  joule = 0..5 CV^2
    >
    Nick Reiter shows prior art on a similar design, but he didn't employ
    the necessary 22.5 Kilohertz Electrogravity E field:
     
     
    Gyogyitokezek makes the same mistake:    :-)
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    Variations in design are obvious to those skilled in the art.  :-)
     
    Fred
     ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 26 05:10:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2QDASNB029264; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 05:10:32 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2QDAMuo029220; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 05:10:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 05:10:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=o5TDGY/AqsTx0zhYoMhVfRKP0PKDSytWIVZjLFlOoXP/Wuml1u0nDkIzrZRh9NP0; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063026131012419@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 06:10:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940ebd1f5d4b715bd34c354e4002e93786c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.117 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67273 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Follow the links on this article to appreciate Maxwell's equations. http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/302l/lectures/node99.html "A time varying Magnetic Field creates an Electrostatic Field". E = - dB/dt "A time-varying Electrostatic Field creates a Magnetic Field". B = dE/dt (capacitor displacement current Id) At ~ 22.5 KHz and E ~ = 2.5e6 volts/meter, ~ t = 4.45e-5 sec/cycle _________________________ ________ | ____________ | gen & crew :-) | |________ | ____________ | __________|_______________ What more do you need? ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Cc: crquin Sent: 3/26/2006 4:55:38 AM Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Posted yesterday. > > No need for all that high tech stuff, Jones. > > The capacitance equivalent of 1.0e-11 coulombs/kg to set up an electric > dipole field oscillating at around 22.5 KHz demands a capacitor designed > for 1.0e-8 coulombs/tonne at 10,000 joules (0.5 CV^2 minimum energy). > > Borrowing from Terry's experience with MUFON on the CompuServe > "Encounters" Forum, a can-within-a-can craft with a vacuum dielectric > (easy to get good vacuum once you get into space) operating at a 1/2 megavolt potential > (more or less) is snap to design. > > Q = CV = 1.0e-8 coulombs With required E = 10,000 joule = 0..5 CV^2 > Nick Reiter shows prior art on a similar design, but he didn't employ the necessary 22.5 Kilohertz Electrogravity E field: http://www.theavalonfoundation.org/hemiscap.htm Gyogyitokezek makes the same mistake: :-) http://www.gyogyitokezek.hu/fe/ethrform.htm http://www.gyogyitokezek.hu/fe/fullcylsph.htm http://www.gyogyitokezek.hu/fe/capgen.htm http://www.gyogyitokezek.hu/fe/dielforce.htm http://www.gyogyitokezek.hu/fe/dielcapgen.htm http://www.gyogyitokezek.hu/fe/dielphpump.htm Variations in design are obvious to those skilled in the art. :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
    Follow the links on this article to appreciate Maxwell's equations.
     
     
    "A time varying Magnetic Field creates an Electrostatic Field".    E = - dB/dt
    "A time-varying Electrostatic Field creates a Magnetic Field".      B = dE/dt  (capacitor displacement current Id)
     
    At  ~ 22.5 KHz  and E ~ = 2.5e6 volts/meter, ~ t = 4.45e-5 sec/cycle
     
    _________________________
     ________    |     ____________
    |                   gen      & crew :-)                              |
    |________    |  ____________ |  
    __________|_______________                                          
     
     
    What more do you need?
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: vortex-l
    Cc: crquin
    Sent: 3/26/2006 4:55:38 AM
    Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields

    Posted yesterday.
    >
    > No need for all that high tech stuff, Jones.
    >
    > The capacitance equivalent of 1.0e-11 coulombs/kg to set up an electric
    > dipole field oscillating at around 22.5 KHz demands a capacitor designed
    > for 1.0e-8 coulombs/tonne at 10,000 joules (0.5 CV^2 minimum energy).
    >
    > Borrowing from Terry's experience with MUFON on the CompuServe
    > "Encounters" Forum, a can-within-a-can craft with a vacuum dielectric
    > (easy to get good vacuum once you get into space) operating at a 1/2 megavolt potential
    > (more or less) is snap to design.
    >
    > Q = CV  = 1.0e-8 coulombs  With  required E = 10,000  joule = 0..5 CV^2
    >
    Nick Reiter shows prior art on a similar design, but he didn't employ
    the necessary 22.5 Kilohertz Electrogravity E field:
     
     
    Gyogyitokezek makes the same mistake:    :-)
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    Variations in design are obvious to those skilled in the art.  :-)
     
    Fred
    ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 26 08:42:17 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2QGg25s029883; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 08:42:02 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2QGg0GS029851; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 08:42:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 08:42:00 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=MeemaEMoptGDZ91G77aYs8IEpOiGY1Xm27qvbX/HZ2qQnJ+kqO7TkwR8Uw+WMqm7; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063026164148576@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 09:41:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940e7b67f8ba8f02ce4525169546009a7b2350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.174 Resent-Message-ID: <-NyGBD.A.USH.XRsJEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67274 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII A bench top experiment using two 2 inch diameter x 8 inch long "pop cans" side-by-side with 2.0 millimeter spacing will give a capacitance of 8.0e-12 farad and an inductance of 7.55e-8 henry with an impedance of ~97 ohms. Using a 10,000 volt ~ 22.5 KHz oscillator to energize them the energy will be 0.5 CV^2 = 4.0e-4 joule and induced Q =CV = 8.0e-8 coulombs.. Based on 1.0e-11 coulombs/kg levitation, 8.0e-8/1.0e-11 = 1,0e3 "charge amplification" however, it takes 10 joule/kg to get levitation, thus 4.0e-4/10 = 4.0e-5 kg levitation x 1000 = 0.04 kg = 40 grams possible levitation of the "pop cans". Maybe. :-) Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 3/26/2006 6:11:08 AM Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Follow the links on this article to appreciate Maxwell's equations. http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/302l/lectures/node99.html "A time varying Magnetic Field creates an Electrostatic Field". E = - dB/dt "A time-varying Electrostatic Field creates a Magnetic Field". B = dE/dt (capacitor displacement current Id) At ~ 22.5 KHz and E ~ = 2.5e6 volts/meter, ~ t = 4.45e-5 sec/cycle _________________________ ________ | ____________ | gen & crew :-) | |________ | ____________ | __________|_______________ What more do you need? ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Cc: crquin Sent: 3/26/2006 4:55:38 AM Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Posted yesterday. > > No need for all that high tech stuff, Jones. > > The capacitance equivalent of 1.0e-11 coulombs/kg to set up an electric > dipole field oscillating at around 22.5 KHz demands a capacitor designed > for 1.0e-8 coulombs/tonne at 10,000 joules (0.5 CV^2 minimum energy). > > Borrowing from Terry's experience with MUFON on the CompuServe > "Encounters" Forum, a can-within-a-can craft with a vacuum dielectric > (easy to get good vacuum once you get into space) operating at a 1/2 megavolt potential > (more or less) is snap to design. > > Q = CV = 1.0e-8 coulombs With required E = 10,000 joule = 0..5 CV^2 > Nick Reiter shows prior art on a similar design, but he didn't employ the necessary 22.5 Kilohertz Electrogravity E field: http://www.theavalonfoundation.org/hemiscap.htm Gyogyitokezek makes the same mistake: :-) http://www.gyogyitokezek.hu/fe/ethrform.htm http://www.gyogyitokezek.hu/fe/fullcylsph.htm http://www.gyogyitokezek.hu/fe/capgen.htm http://www.gyogyitokezek.hu/fe/dielforce.htm http://www.gyogyitokezek.hu/fe/dielcapgen.htm http://www.gyogyitokezek.hu/fe/dielphpump.htm Variations in design are obvious to those skilled in the art. :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
    A bench top experiment using two 2 inch diameter x 8 inch long "pop cans" side-by-side
    with 2.0 millimeter spacing will give a capacitance of  8.0e-12 farad and an inductance
    of 7.55e-8 henry with an impedance of ~97 ohms.
     
    Using a 10,000 volt ~ 22.5 KHz oscillator to energize them the energy will be
    0.5 CV^2 = 4.0e-4 joule and induced Q =CV = 8.0e-8 coulombs..
    Based on 1.0e-11 coulombs/kg levitation, 8.0e-8/1.0e-11 = 1,0e3 "charge amplification"
    however, it takes 10  joule/kg to get levitation, thus 4.0e-4/10 = 4.0e-5 kg levitation x 1000
    = 0.04 kg = 40 grams possible levitation of the "pop cans".
     
    Maybe.   :-)
     
    Fred
    ----- Original Message -----
    Sent: 3/26/2006 6:11:08 AM
    Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields

    Follow the links on this article to appreciate Maxwell's equations.
     
     
    "A time varying Magnetic Field creates an Electrostatic Field".    E = - dB/dt
    "A time-varying Electrostatic Field creates a Magnetic Field".      B = dE/dt  (capacitor displacement current Id)
     
    At  ~ 22.5 KHz  and E ~ = 2.5e6 volts/meter, ~ t = 4.45e-5 sec/cycle
     
    _________________________
     ________    |     ____________
    |                   gen      & crew :-)                              |
    |________    |  ____________ |  
    __________|_______________                                          
     
     
    What more do you need?
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: vortex-l
    Cc: crquin
    Sent: 3/26/2006 4:55:38 AM
    Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields

    Posted yesterday.
    >
    > No need for all that high tech stuff, Jones.
    >
    > The capacitance equivalent of 1.0e-11 coulombs/kg to set up an electric
    > dipole field oscillating at around 22.5 KHz demands a capacitor designed
    > for 1.0e-8 coulombs/tonne at 10,000 joules (0.5 CV^2 minimum energy).
    >
    > Borrowing from Terry's experience with MUFON on the CompuServe
    > "Encounters" Forum, a can-within-a-can craft with a vacuum dielectric
    > (easy to get good vacuum once you get into space) operating at a 1/2 megavolt potential
    > (more or less) is snap to design.
    >
    > Q = CV  = 1.0e-8 coulombs  With  required E = 10,000  joule = 0..5 CV^2
    >
    Nick Reiter shows prior art on a similar design, but he didn't employ
    the necessary 22.5 Kilohertz Electrogravity E field:
     
     
    Gyogyitokezek makes the same mistake:    :-)
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    Variations in design are obvious to those skilled in the art.  :-)
     
    Fred
    ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 26 09:05:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2QH5ZxR004500; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 09:05:36 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2QH5Yl7004487; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 09:05:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 09:05:34 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=Nn+ihqtb89UxIjx7PnvfYZB0A8wMhE/5CJYoCdEAlY2BS/oOTEuwFg4nDO6nErv88whMnjRcEo29h73reuiDkHYglXmAZ0VDvmEzqDZ8b74As0TUJe5gwUR1YXl/dyxLX3c7QPif04ccGd8Fr6Oo7IorIKkXXS4h/6sTC0BJ6Wo= Message-ID: <357653710603260905j4c6f66cct7a4b6a27b51a9510@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 19:05:30 +0200 From: "David Jonsson" Subject: Re: Gravitomagnetic Field Quantified Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <410-220063524123838212@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2651_31164825.1143392730462" References: <410-220063524123838212@earthlink.net> Resent-Message-ID: To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67275 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_Part_2651_31164825.1143392730462 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 3/24/06, Frederick Sparber wrote: > > I don't think we are very far apart on the issue, David. > > The Displacement Current in any particle I =3D C *dV/dt where C =3D eo = * > wavelength (hc/E) > sets up an enormous B field. > Another approach is I =3D q*f where f =3D c/wavelength =3D 19.7 amperes= for > the electron > and 12,056 amperes for each of the three "quarks" in the proton. > Elementary charge * the speed of light =3D 4.8032042 =D7 10^-11 mA is the highest current an electron can have. Isn't it? The quarks with even smaller charge could not have higher current. David ------=_Part_2651_31164825.1143392730462 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
    On 3/24/06, Frederick Sparber < fjsparber@earthlink.net> wrote:=20
    I don't think we are very far = apart on the issue, David.
     
    The Displacement Current in an= y particle I =3D C *dV/dt  where  C =3D eo * wavelength (hc/= E)
    sets up an enormous B field.
    Another approach  is I =3D q*f  where f =3D c/wavelength =3D= 19.7 amperes for the electron
    and 12,056 amperes for each of the three "quarks" in the pro= ton. 
     
    Elementary charge * the speed of light =3D 4.8032042 =D7 10^-11 mA is = the highest current an electron can have. Isn't it?
     
    The quarks with even smaller charge could not have higher current.
     
    David
    ------=_Part_2651_31164825.1143392730462-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 26 09:32:12 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2QHVuBA012995; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 09:31:57 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2QHVt1T012977; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 09:31:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 09:31:55 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=i+FDpdeXwWxG8bjptcP5KMPU1eObZBwgOoJLMp8woWbXS4NWnctgDWsVpbvXSUgW; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Subject:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063026173146700@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 10:31:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" Subject: RE: Re: Gravitomagnetic Field Quantified X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9402aa68cc47f73f761a16bfbbce8ac2072350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.83 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67276 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Nonsense. The higher the frequency-energy the shorter the wavelength hc/E = wavelength. Wavelength/[2(pi)] = Radius. 3.86e-13 meters for the electron and ~ 0.6 Fermi for the "quarks" which is in close agreement with the ~.1.0e-15 meter radius measured for nuclei. The positron-electron pairs are made from a 1.02 MeV photon with wavelength hc/E and most likely the Triad (+ - + ) of so-called "quarks" in a proton (about 312 MeV each in the bound state) were made from two pair of ~ 540 Mev Mesons where the "left out" negative Meson decaying into an electron. Hence the hydrogen atom. Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: David Jonsson To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 3/26/2006 10:06:17 AM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Gravitomagnetic Field Quantified On 3/24/06, Frederick Sparber < fjsparber@earthlink.net> wrote: I don't think we are very far apart on the issue, David. The Displacement Current in any particle I = C *dV/dt where C = eo * wavelength (hc/E) sets up an enormous B field. Another approach is I = q*f where f = c/wavelength = 19.7 amperes for the electron and 12,056 amperes for each of the three "quarks" in the proton. Elementary charge * the speed of light = 4.8032042 × 10^-11 mA is the highest current an electron can have. Isn't it? The quarks with even smaller charge could not have higher current. David ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
    Nonsense.
     
    The higher the frequency-energy  the shorter the wavelength hc/E = wavelength.
     
    Wavelength/[2(pi)]  = Radius. 3.86e-13 meters for the electron and ~ 0.6 Fermi for the "quarks"
    which is in close agreement with the ~.1.0e-15  meter radius measured for nuclei.
     
    The positron-electron pairs are made from a 1.02 MeV photon with wavelength hc/E
    and most likely the  Triad  (+  -   + )  of so-called "quarks" in a proton  (about 312 MeV each in the bound state)
    were made from two pair of ~ 540 Mev Mesons where the "left out"  negative Meson decaying into an
    electron. Hence the hydrogen atom.
     
    Fred
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
    Sent: 3/26/2006 10:06:17 AM
    Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Gravitomagnetic Field Quantified

    On 3/24/06, Frederick Sparber < fjsparber@earthlink.net> wrote:
    I don't think we are very far apart on the issue, David.
     
    The Displacement Current in any particle I = C *dV/dt  where  C = eo * wavelength (hc/E)
    sets up an enormous B field.
    Another approach  is I = q*f  where f = c/wavelength = 19.7 amperes for the electron
    and 12,056 amperes for each of the three "quarks" in the proton. 
     
    Elementary charge * the speed of light = 4.8032042 × 10^-11 mA is the highest current an electron can have. Isn't it?
     
    The quarks with even smaller charge could not have higher current.
     
    David
    ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 26 13:35:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2QLZTqL024537; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 13:35:30 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2QLZRxp024512; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 13:35:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 13:35:27 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: He3 Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 07:35:24 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta03ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sun, 26 Mar 2006 21:35:23 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2QLZO5E024485 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67277 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, A dihydrino molecule can be very small. Perhaps, if it gets close enough to a deuterium nucleus, one of the two protons from the molecule can tunnel into the D nucleus producing He3, while the He3 formation energy is largely passed to the other proton of the dihydrino molecule in the form of kinetic energy, due to it's proximity to the reaction. This would be a clean nuclear reaction, resulting only in energetic He3 and protons. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 26 19:10:20 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2R3A2AW005326; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 19:10:02 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2R3A00X005299; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 19:10:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 19:10:00 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060326191034.02b8c2c8@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 19:12:01 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: BP Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67278 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Anybody ever think about British Petroleum's name change to BP? Hmm ... s From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 26 19:50:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2R3o5Zg023135; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 19:50:42 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2R3Pdv1011325; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 19:25:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 19:25:39 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=iPFTkUuJZwsFDXdanZ46x95qfMnieefgVOYAudE2MQwhLJYW/QZGDuOz6VJkxIULXt4zONw/UcX0WfEp4Qy7Uei2ChOqxkYrTKC+cLeOMq/+PfIhch3z7LnXzr5rXQF5uRbp1DLB07MCbGBvDTYJ4BswTqKfVQkMcsvSA37OjvI= Message-ID: Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 20:19:06 -0700 From: "leaking pen" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: BP In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20060326191034.02b8c2c8@mail.newenergytimes.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_9074_9977031.1143429546150" References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060326191034.02b8c2c8@mail.newenergytimes.com> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67279 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ------=_Part_9074_9977031.1143429546150 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline see, i hear bp, i think of lord baden-powell, founder of the scouts, and hi= s motto, be prepared. On 3/26/06, Steven Krivit wrote: > > Anybody ever think about British Petroleum's name change to BP? > > Hmm ... > > > s > > -- "Monsieur l'abb=E9, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to ma= ke it possible for you to continue to write" Voltaire ------=_Part_9074_9977031.1143429546150 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline see, i hear bp, i think of lord baden-powell, founder of the scouts, and hi= s motto, be prepared.

    On 3/26/06, = Steven Krivit <steven@n= ewenergytimes.com> wrote:
    Anybody ever think about British= Petroleum's name change to BP?

    Hmm ...


    s




    --
    "Monsieur l'abb=E9, I detest wh= at you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to conti= nue to write"  Voltaire=20 ------=_Part_9074_9977031.1143429546150-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Mar 26 20:21:24 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2R4LG5T004807; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 20:21:17 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2R4LAiR004767; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 20:21:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 20:21:10 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2006-03-10) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.7 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Message-ID: <000a01c65151$a9f563b0$a3037841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: Re: BP Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 21:51:00 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C6511F.5ED485A0"; type="multipart/alternative" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67282 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C6511F.5ED485A0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0007_01C6511F.5ED485A0" ------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C6511F.5ED485A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankKrivit wrote... Anybody ever think about British Petroleum's name change to BP? Howdy Steven, BP is one of the world's morally corrupt enterprises with absolutely no = redeeming values. After the explosion at the BP Amoco plant in Texas = City Texas last year, and the public record of their operational = conduct, I wrote BP off as a legitimate entity. Ever ask who owns and = controls BP....hmmm Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C6511F.5ED485A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
    Krivit wrote...

    Anybody ever think about British Petroleum's name change to = BP?

    Howdy=20 Steven,

    BP is one of the world's morally corrupt enterprises with absolutely = no=20 redeeming values. After the explosion at the BP Amoco plant in Texas = City Texas=20 last year, and the public record of their operational conduct, I wrote = BP off as=20 a legitimate entity. Ever ask who owns and controls BP....hmmm

    Richard

    ------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C6511F.5ED485A0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C6511F.5ED485A0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000501c65151$a968db20$a3037841@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C6511F.5ED485A0-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 06:12:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2RECGxu014834; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 06:12:16 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2RECA1A014797; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 06:12:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 06:12:10 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=oh6iAvO/DXYCmHwOhaXbiqwXZiTxMEtKqRCTLrHXx2ju6TUNQDr8I/d0e2Ono2M3; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063127141159945@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: "crquin" Subject: Re: Maxwell, Light, Relativity and Gravity Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 07:11:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940da84cfd862a8c95534bd95059624a45c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.60 Resent-Message-ID: <98ZaWC.A.JnD.6K_JEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67283 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII In 1864 J. C. Maxwell, based on the work of Faraday and others, set out to prove that light was electromagnetic in nature. He also was mystified by why application of the voltage from a battery to a pair of plates of a "condenser" in air indicated a current flow This led to his deduction of the Displacement Current ( Id ): Id = C * dV/dt IOW, when a battery voltage ( V ) was connected to the plates of the condenser C, the voltage V on them went from zero to battery voltage V in a very short time ( t ). He tied it all together with 4 basic equations, most of which were proven correct by Hertz's work 20 years later. All of these attributes are at work in a constantly moving EM wave and photon or a trapped photon (a particle). OTOH, relativity work by Lorentz, Poincare, Fitzgerald, and Einstein shows that time ( t ) does strange things when the velocity of light c is approached. For instance the fundamental unit of charge +/- q is invariant in any reference frame because something in the particle is seemingly constant, whereas the displacement current (Id ) apparently isn't. IOW, the displacement current time function in a trapped photon (particle) is setting up a time-dilated electromagnetic field that exerts a 1/R^2 force on other trapped photons -particles. We call it the gravity force. I think that electrons might be an "antiparticles" wrt the Protons which provide the lion's share of the gravity force, and can be manipulated in a manner that can create an Antigravity Force. That is what I have been driving at lately. :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
    In 1864  J. C. Maxwell, based on the work of Faraday and others, set out
    to prove that light was electromagnetic in nature. He also was
    mystified by why application of the voltage from a battery
    to a pair of plates of a "condenser" in air indicated a current flow
     
    This led to his deduction of the Displacement Current ( Id ):
     
    Id  = C * dV/dt
     
    IOW, when a battery voltage ( V ) was connected to the plates of the
    condenser C, the voltage V on them went from zero to battery voltage V
    in a very short time ( t ).
     
    He tied it all together with 4  basic equations, most of which
    were proven correct by Hertz's work 20 years later.
     
    All  of these attributes are at work in a constantly moving EM wave and photon
    or a trapped photon (a particle).
     
    OTOH, relativity  work by Lorentz, Poincare, Fitzgerald, and Einstein shows that time ( t ) does
    strange things when the velocity of light c is approached.
     
    For instance the fundamental unit of charge +/- q is invariant in any reference frame
    because something in the particle is seemingly constant, whereas the displacement current  (Id )
    apparently isn't.
     
    IOW, the displacement current time function in a trapped photon (particle) is setting up a time-dilated 
    electromagnetic field that exerts a 1/R^2   force on other trapped photons -particles.
     
    We call it the gravity force.
     
    I think that electrons might be an "antiparticles" wrt the Protons which provide the
    lion's share of the gravity force, and can be manipulated in a manner that
    can create  an Antigravity Force.
     
    That is what I have been driving at lately.  :-)
     
    Fred
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Mar 27 09:25:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2RHPd5O000680; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:25:39 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2RHPalN000664; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:25:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:25:36 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=e0wuCbJ3OWwnhHMd2re/BYVVw1JgRzXDeC7AqG5BSEBsamOl82gVAUtDlpn+0hZk; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006312717257181@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Maxwell, Light, Relativity and Gravity Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:25:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94020e485bc90b6a8d3c92ea700d6419967350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.247 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67284 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Heard any gravity frequency changes lately? Although humans might not, creatures that can hear in the 20 KHz range and beyond probably become aware of the normally ignored background as when there is an impending earthquake. 22.5 KHz Gravito-Tinnitus anyone? Terry? :-) Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: crquin Sent: 3/27/2006 7:13:23 AM Subject: Re: Maxwell, Light, Relativity and Gravity In 1864 J. C. Maxwell, based on the work of Faraday and others, set out to prove that light was electromagnetic in nature. He also was mystified by why application of the voltage from a battery to a pair of plates of a "condenser" in air indicated a current flow This led to his deduction of the Displacement Current ( Id ): Id = C * dV/dt IOW, when a battery voltage ( V ) was connected to the plates of the condenser C, the voltage V on them went from zero to battery voltage V in a very short time ( t ). He tied it all together with 4 basic equations, most of which were proven correct by Hertz's work 20 years later. All of these attributes are at work in a constantly moving EM wave and photon or a trapped photon (a particle). OTOH, relativity work by Lorentz, Poincare, Fitzgerald, and Einstein shows that time ( t ) does strange things when the velocity of light c is approached. For instance the fundamental unit of charge +/- q is invariant in any reference frame because something in the particle is seemingly constant, whereas the displacement current (Id ) apparently isn't. IOW, the displacement current time function in a trapped photon (particle) is setting up a time-dilated electromagnetic field that exerts a 1/R^2 force on other trapped photons -particles. We call it the gravity force. I think that electrons might be an "antiparticles" wrt the Protons which provide the lion's share of the gravity force, and can be manipulated in a manner that can create an Antigravity Force. That is what I have been driving at lately. :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
    Heard any gravity frequency changes lately?
     
    Although humans might not, creatures that can hear in the 20 KHz range and beyond
    probably become aware of the normally ignored background as when there is an impending
    earthquake.
    22.5 KHz Gravito-Tinnitus anyone?    Terry?  :-)
     
    Fred
     
    ----- Original Message -----
    To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
    Cc: crquin
    Sent: 3/27/2006 7:13:23 AM
    Subject: Re: Maxwell, Light, Relativity and Gravity

    In 1864  J. C. Maxwell, based on the work of Faraday and others, set out
    to prove that light was electromagnetic in nature. He also was
    mystified by why application of the voltage from a battery
    to a pair of plates of a "condenser" in air indicated a current flow
     
    This led to his deduction of the Displacement Current ( Id ):
     
    Id  = C * dV/dt
     
    IOW, when a battery voltage ( V ) was connected to the plates of the
    condenser C, the voltage V on them went from zero to battery voltage V
    in a very short time ( t ).
     
    He tied it all together with 4  basic equations, most of which
    were proven correct by Hertz's work 20 years later.
     
    All  of these attributes are at work in a constantly moving EM wave and photon
    or a trapped photon (a particle).
     
    OTOH, relativity  work by Lorentz, Poincare, Fitzgerald, and Einstein shows that time ( t ) does
    strange things when the velocity of light c is approached.
     
    For instance the fundamental unit of charge +/- q is invariant in any reference frame
    because something in the particle is seemingly constant, whereas the displacement current  (Id )
    apparently isn't.
     
    IOW, the displacement current time function in a trapped photon (particle) is setting up a time-dilated 
    electromagnetic field that exerts a 1/R^2   force on other trapped photons -particles.
     
    We call it the gravity force.
     
    I think that electrons might be an "antiparticles" wrt the Protons which provide the
    lion's share of the gravity force, and can be manipulated in a manner that
    can create  an Antigravity Force.
     
    That is what I have been driving at lately.  :-)
     
    Fred
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 02:17:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2SAHGi9018774; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 02:17:17 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2SAHE7f018766; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 02:17:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 02:17:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Ye+NzgQL08xID4kPSqsYa0j/EAUPXXlCIAB9Xdx5MvT+9nGIqjv2Ps0KfI2g8HAy; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006322810172782@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Maxwell, Light, Relativity and Gravity Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 03:17:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94051a79bd0b04a0410447351ad879bfb2d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.164 Resent-Message-ID: <6XJDVC.A.KlE.q0QKEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67285 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Time to Diverge and Curl up with a book. http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Divergence.html http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Curl.html http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/MaxwellEquations.html Note the Biographies of Fitzgerald (Vortex Rings), Kelvin (Knots and Strings), and Larmor's (Incompressible Ether). http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/biography/topics/Physicists.html The genius/ingenuity of the 19th Century unsurpassable. ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
    Time to Diverge and Curl up with a book.
     
     
     
     
    Note the Biographies of Fitzgerald (Vortex Rings), Kelvin (Knots and Strings),
    and Larmor's (Incompressible Ether).
     
     
    The genius/ingenuity of the 19th Century unsurpassable.
    ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Mar 28 06:06:55 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2SE6hd1003126; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 06:06:43 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2SE6guE003114; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 06:06:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 06:06:42 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:06:36 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C82087F5E28138-115C-3B2E@mblkn-m08.sysops.aol.com> Cc: thomasjschum@yahoo.com X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Revised Sprain Magnetic Motor Data Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.72 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67286 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tom Schum's site: http://mysite.verizon.net/vzesfls5/files/ has some detailed data from Paul Sprain on EMILIE. For the electrical data, Tom did a piecewise integration of the V and I curves and found the three pulse energy was closer to 2.89 J. Also posted is a very good image of the torque display. The "thickness" of the torque pulses are actually a composit of over many smaller sinusoids as the rotor mags move between stator mags. The large trough is the roughly 20 degree gap in the magnet spiral. I'm going to try to measure the area under the torque curve for 1.5 cycles; however, my eyeball tells me that the energy generated during this period is closer to 7 J, IMO. You can look for yourself; but, I would guestimate EMILIE's COP to be closer to 2.42 than the 1.89 that the inventor claims. A question for the list: As the rotor approaches the electromagnetic coil, you can see the V curve go negative. This is expected; but, since there is no current flow due to the gating device, does the rotor experience the back EMF due to the Lenz effect? The reason I ask is that Paul is presently using a simple toggle to send the 28 ms pulse to the electromag. If one attempted to tap the induced energy as the rotor approaches and departs the coil, could one increase the COP? Or, would the Lenz effect negate any additional gain? I honestly think that, if you can push the electrical efficiency to a COP of near 3.0, you might could make the current design of EMILIE self-run. It would take some supercap storage and some sophisticated waveform switching (I would probably sawtooth the V pulse) but it looks doable. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 04:58:40 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2TCwYhd026435; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 04:58:34 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2TCwVHF026421; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 04:58:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 04:58:31 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=huS5KsAG4O2A8SFFnX20ttoCxgD4NhIn7lVYgR/H1mq+aD8XEVMhfBjX4iBb9X5p; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063329125826858@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Relatively Strange Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 05:58:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94037581f6efff98184a1e141230f6b5ab6350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.52 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67287 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Food for thought? At 87% of c Gamma equals 2. so if you are in your yard some night observing a squadron of spacecraft flying at 87% of c out past the moon orbit with their navigation (collision avoidance) lights flashing, you see them flashing on for two seconds and off for two seconds,but. each crew sees them flashing on for one second and off for one second. . IOW, their observed frequency is twice the frequency that you see. That is straight forward enough but there is a paradox that comes up when the spacecraft have companion craft flying in formation with them also at moving at 87% of c. The Electrogravity electric dipole field model (if correct) says that each crew will see the other's lights flashing at the same one pulse per second rate, but you will interpret their difference as Gamma Squared. Which says that AFAIK, an untested part of Relativity Theory is Questionable for force at a distance or communication between reference frames and each crew sees the other's lights flashing at half the frequency of theirs, not to mention the deep voices that the tender gender have as they talk between craft on their radios :-) Fred .............................................................................................................................................................. Electrograviy Hypocharge Model: The quark particles in the protons have a frequency of 7.53e22 Hz, and as evidenced from the gravitational force, this frequency is outwardly time-dilated by a relativistic Gamma of 3.35e18, thus the time-dilated electric dipole frequency is 22.49 KHz . It is believed that the time-dilated E M Field Gyration sets up a "HypoCharge" that acts as the 1/R^2 Gravity Force. The "HypoCharge" (*q ) 1.6e-19 coulombs/3.35e18 time-dilation factor achieved by the ~22.5 KHz, is 4.776e-38 Coulombs for each proton "quark". There are 5.98e24/(5.5e-28) = 1.08e52 quarks in the earth x 4.776e-38 = 5.2e14 Coulombs total HypoCharge ( *Q ) for the earth. Thus the HypoCharge ( *Q ) at the earth's surface is: 5.2e14 /(6.38e6)^2 = 12.78 Coulombs Synthesized HypoCharge ( * Q ) necessary to get 9.8 newtons (1 kg force) to levitate: 9.8 = 9e9 x 12.78 x ( *Q ) Then ( *Q ) = 9.8/(9e9 x 12.78) = 9.8/(1.15e11) = 8.52e-11 Coulombs HypoCharge/kg-force +/- = 8.52e-14 Coulombs HypoCharge/gram +/- weight change. The energy per kg for 9.8 newtons force or 1.0 kg weightlessness force is 9.8 newton-meter/sec or 9.8 joule/sec = 9.8 watts ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
    Food for thought?
    At 87% of c  Gamma  equals 2. so if you are in your yard some night
    observing a squadron of spacecraft flying at 87% of c  out past the moon orbit with their
    navigation (collision avoidance) lights flashing, you see them flashing on for two seconds
    and off for two seconds,but. each crew sees them flashing on for one second and off for one second.
    .
    IOW, their observed frequency is twice the  frequency that you see.
    That is straight forward enough but there is a paradox that comes up
    when the spacecraft have companion craft flying in formation with them
    also at  moving at 87% of c.
    The Electrogravity electric dipole field model  (if correct) says that each crew will see
    the other's lights flashing at the same one pulse per second rate, but you will
    interpret their difference as Gamma Squared. 
     
    Which says that  AFAIK, an untested part of Relativity Theory is Questionable
    for force at a distance or communication between reference frames and
    each crew sees the other's lights flashing at half the frequency of theirs,
    not to mention the deep voices that the tender gender have as they talk
    between craft on their radios :-)
     
    Fred
     
    ..............................................................................................................................................................
    Electrograviy Hypocharge Model:
     
    The quark particles in the protons have a frequency of 7.53e22 Hz, and as evidenced from
    the gravitational force, this frequency is outwardly time-dilated by a relativistic Gamma
    of 3.35e18, thus the time-dilated electric dipole frequency is 22.49 KHz .
    It is believed that the time-dilated E M Field Gyration sets up a "HypoCharge" that
    acts as the 1/R^2 Gravity Force.
     
    The "HypoCharge"  (*q ) 1.6e-19 coulombs/3.35e18 time-dilation factor achieved by
    the ~22.5 KHz, is 4.776e-38 Coulombs for each proton "quark".
     
    There are 5.98e24/(5.5e-28) = 1.08e52 quarks in the earth x 4.776e-38 = 5.2e14
    Coulombs total HypoCharge  ( *Q ) for the earth.
     
    Thus the HypoCharge ( *Q ) at the earth's surface is:
     
    5.2e14 /(6.38e6)^2  = 12.78 Coulombs
     
    Synthesized HypoCharge ( * Q ) necessary to get 9.8 newtons (1 kg force) to levitate:
     
    9.8 = 9e9 x 12.78 x ( *Q ) 
     
    Then ( *Q ) =  9.8/(9e9 x 12.78)  = 9.8/(1.15e11) = 8.52e-11 Coulombs HypoCharge/kg-force +/-
    = 8.52e-14 Coulombs HypoCharge/gram  +/- weight change.
     
    The energy per kg for 9.8 newtons force or 1.0 kg weightlessness  force is 9.8  newton-meter/sec
    or 9.8 joule/sec  = 9.8 watts
    ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 05:49:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2TDmsDT015333; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 05:48:54 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2TDmrPL015304; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 05:48:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 05:48:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 08:48:47 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8214EA3108A37-3C4-B98D@mblkn-m03.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <410-220063329125826858@earthlink.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <410-220063329125826858@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Relatively Strange Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.67 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <5c3FVC.A.EvD.EBpKEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67288 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Frederick Sparber Food for thought? <><><><><><><> How about this morsel: You take your Coby flyback xfmr and tweek it to fly at 22.5 kHz to feed your hulahoop lifter? Or you could just put it back together and watch "Green Acres". Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 05:57:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2TDvIK8019292; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 05:57:19 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2TDvG2E019268; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 05:57:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 05:57:16 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 08:57:13 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C8214FD0CEAD27-3C4-B9CD@mblkn-m03.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Dirac's Big TOE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.67 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67289 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gnorts, Vorts, Thanks to Grimer, I have been having a delightful time reading Hotson's writings on Dirac. I have placed these two papers here: http://www.geocities.com/terry1094 for the readers' convenience. They come from Infinite Energy mag's site. Hotson's premise is that Dirac successfully described (with additional interpretation) a TOE whereby all that is (and isn't) is composed of positive energy electrons and their antimatter mirror PLUS negative energy electron/positron pairs (epo). Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 07:48:40 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2TFmN30004116; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 07:48:28 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2TFmMRC004084; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 07:48:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 07:48:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060329102851.03d10488@mindspring.com> Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060328175558.03d01450@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:48:01 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Progress at LENR-CANR Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67290 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Since LENR-CANR began in October 2002, readers have visited approximately 832,000 times, and they have downloaded just over 500,000 papers, as of this week. This year so far, downloads are running at 4,400 papers per week. For the last 3 months of 2005, the rate was 3,700 per week. Our monthly bandwidth limit is 25 GB: http://jumpline.com/vds_hosting_j4vds.php As of this morning we used 23.6 GB, or 0.8 GB/day, so I purchased an extra 1 GB for $5. That should be enough for this month. The good news is that somebody, somewhere is reading a lot of papers about cold fusion. The bad news is that this does not appear to be having any effect on public opinion or government policy, although I suppose you never know what could be happening behind the scenes. The Scientific American, Time Magazine, and the Washington Post still assert that cold fusion is a "misdeed" compounded of error, ambition, haste and fraud, and they still refuse to publish one word defending the work by the researchers themselves. Time magazine recently featured global warming. It said that global warming does exist, and that you should "be worried, be very worried." It says technological solutions must be found, but it did not mention cold fusion. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 08:09:01 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2TG8odM016265; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 08:08:50 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2TG8m2R016249; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 08:08:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 08:08:48 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060329110759.03e0d830@mindspring.com> Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060329105534.03d68158@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 11:08:42 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: New version of books by Rothwell, Clarke Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67291 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: As I mentioned the other day, I uploaded a slightly revised version of "Cold Fusion and the Future." The changes are mainly corrections and new footnotes. Chapter 2 has some new information on plutonium, and on microturbines, and chapter 16 briefly mentions cultured meat; that is, meat from animal tissue growing in vitro. See: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJcoldfusiona.pdf Cultured meat is described by the New Harvest nonprofit research organization: http://www.new-harvest.org/default.php I may change chapter 12 again to add information about an anomalous explosion reported in 2004 by Jean-Paul Biberian. Arthur C. Clarke revised "Profiles of the Future," in a Millennium Edition, which unfortunately only seems to be sold in England: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0575402776/qid=1143053878/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/203-5381518-2367111 This edition discusses cold fusion in two or three chapters. I helped Clarke prepare this edition, as noted in the Acknowledgements. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 08:19:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2TGJ8VF020593; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 08:19:10 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2TGJ7JL020564; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 08:19:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 08:19:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=LsPOY2NZo3vSjFb63r5jh+Rimg5pRsqNV2unWP4v+E4Yia2c6hnhDc2tOtalIsol; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006332916184857@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Relatively Strange Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 09:18:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940e929206b9600537178eb2ede48aefd0e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.120.67 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67292 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Good idea Terry, But, Green Acres (my favorite) don't come out on a B & W TV. Besides one of my grandkids put it back together and took it home. To top that. The Frequency Stipulation is a RED HERRING. It's the concentration of Energy and it's HypoCharge that counts. IOW with the right "capacitor" design one of those neon sign transformers with 15 KV 60 Hz should do just fine. Fred > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 3/29/2006 6:49:31 AM > Subject: Re: Relatively Strange > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Frederick Sparber > > Food for thought? > > <><><><><><><> > > How about this morsel: You take your Coby flyback xfmr and tweek it to > fly at 22.5 kHz to feed your hulahoop lifter? > > Or you could just put it back together and watch "Green Acres". > > Terry > ___________________________________________________ > Try the New Netscape Mail Today! > Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List > http://mail.netscape.com > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 09:37:33 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2THbJQl024637; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 09:37:19 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2THbHf5024622; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 09:37:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 09:37:17 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <005401c65357$6ab14360$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <8C8214FD0CEAD27-3C4-B9CD@mblkn-m03.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: Dirac's Big TOE Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 09:37:13 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67293 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net > Gnorts, Vorts, > Thanks to Grimer, I have been having a delightful time reading > Hotson's writings on Dirac. I have placed these two papers > here: > http://www.geocities.com/terry1094 > for the readers' convenience. They come from Infinite Energy > mag's site. There is a more recent paper to include, which might be helpful, in which Don Hotson explains more thoroughly the epo-BEC. I am trying to find the citation. As I understand it, the epo-BEC is defined as an extradimensional "Bose Einstein Condensate" of epos, and this ubiquitous generalized structure IS the aether. Plain and simple. For me, and possibly for other "non-specialists" the BEC understanding, together with the extra-dimensionality is critical to getting a firmer grasp of the hidden features. The hard part is in dispensing with such things (at least in theory) as "photons" and "neutrinos," which become aether-disturbances, if I am verbalizing it correctly. I think Don's excellent comprehension of Dirac (and really an improvement) is best utilized as an auxiliary model - rather than as a total "either-or" replacement for the mainstream model- somewhat in an analogous way as "wave-particle" duality is helpful in explaining different aspects of the electron itself...at least for so long as it takes to rid oneself of one's educational foundations. Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 10:08:21 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2TI822M007514; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:08:03 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2TI7wIj007456; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:07:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:07:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Sender: jack@mail3.centurytel.net Message-ID: <442AD911.4FB1DA7C@centurytel.net> Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 18:59:29 +0000 From: "Taylor J. Smith" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-Caldera (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Dirac's Big TOE References: <8C8214FD0CEAD27-3C4-B9CD@mblkn-m03.sysops.aol.com> <005401c65357$6ab14360$6401a8c0@NuDell> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <9PTAh.A.W0B.9zsKEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67294 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones Beene wrote: > There is a more recent paper to include, which might be helpful, > in which Don Hotson explains more thoroughly the epo-BEC. I am > trying to find the citation. > Hi Jones, Please let us know the url when you find it. Thanks, Jack Smith From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 10:54:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2TIsgcM029827; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:54:43 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2TIsfwX029813; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:54:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:54:41 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060329135250.03d6e878@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 13:54:28 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Plug-in hybrid consortium Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <1wb4D.A.wRH.wftKEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67296 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: See: http://www.hybridconsortium.org/ Some big-gun power companies manufacturers of batteries and ultracapacitors are members of this consortium. See: http://www.hybridconsortium.org/members.html - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 17:19:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2U1JP4g016406; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 17:19:25 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2U1JN0V016388; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 17:19:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 17:19:23 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060329172016.02b6bc60@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 17:21:26 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: Ignition Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_729184828==.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67298 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --=====================_729184828==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fleischmann: =93We urge the use of extreme caution in such experiments =85= =20 ignition.=94 I was re-reading this famous line today. It occurred to me that MF likely=20 did not use this word indiscriminately. "Ignition" is a term used often by= =20 those in the HF field to describe the state of the reaction when it becomes= =20 self-sustaining. I rarely hear any of the CF researchers use the term for=20 their CF work. Perhaps many of you had already conceptualized this, but for me, it just=20 occurred now - Granted, the "live" cells have been rare. Perhaps, the 1985 F&P meltdown, the 1994 F&P boil-off, and the Mizuno=20 boil-off (year?) are experimentally explained by a fusion reaction that=20 "ignites" and becomes self-sustaining. s =20 --=====================_729184828==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fleischmann: =93We urge the use of extreme caution in such experiments = =85 ignition.=94

    I was re-reading this famous line today. It occurred to me that MF likely did not use this word indiscriminately. "Ignition" is a term used often by those in the HF field to describe the state of the reaction when it becomes self-sustaining. I rarely hear any of the CF researchers use the term for their CF work.

    Perhaps many of you had already conceptualized this, but for me, it just occurred now -

    Granted, the "live" cells have been rare.

    Perhaps, the 1985 F&P meltdown, the 1994 F&P boil-off, and the Mizuno boil-off (year?) are experimentally explained by a fusion reaction that "ignites" and becomes self-sustaining.

    s --=====================_729184828==.ALT-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 10:30:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2TIU3Y9018593; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:30:12 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2TILmB9014595; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:21:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:21:48 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Sender:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=SqP8wKPT0D8F0wWrffpzxTco1rdseuoQn9/6MD+Likc4rQ13oJw1/hrTLsVVznqNvoxbVQqswlb69xsYU/j2NNEkqdHndJuZqJG6YiLdlEbnbqjZrIfkOXWYDA1dTQwkVNxYvMLCIf//N1/lh6bcX1b1kdPlhuaNzaxoU711YKo= ; Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.1.20060329130750.01d981a8@pop> X-Sender: philip.winestone@pop X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.1.1 Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 13:14:41 -0500 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Philip Winestone Subject: Re: Progress at LENR-CANR In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060329102851.03d10488@mindspring.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060329102851.03d10488@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67295 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends5 Status: RO X-Status: Jed - these same people who undoubtedly pride themselves on being "free" from religious dogma, are now enslaved to another dogma: scientific dogma. Whereas before it was charismatic religious demagogues doing all the damage to humankind, now it's charismatic science demagogues. Isn't it amazing that so many people can swallow so much claptrap without a second though (or perhaps without even a first thought), even when alternative good solid evidence is staring them in the face. The whole thing boils down to curiosity; the ability, or more likely, the will, to question "established" doctrines. And the mainstream media appear to be so ignorant that they don't even know where to start. Or... I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but it could be that there are other forces, not just the media's passive ignorance, at work to keep LENR at bay... Just thinkin'... Philip. At 10:48 AM 3/29/2006 -0500, you wrote: >Since LENR-CANR began in October 2002, readers have visited approximately >832,000 times, and they have downloaded just over 500,000 papers, as of >this week. This year so far, downloads are running at 4,400 papers per >week. For the last 3 months of 2005, the rate was 3,700 per week. > >Our monthly bandwidth limit is 25 GB: > >http://jumpline.com/vds_hosting_j4vds.php > >As of this morning we used 23.6 GB, or 0.8 GB/day, so I purchased an extra >1 GB for $5. That should be enough for this month. > >The good news is that somebody, somewhere is reading a lot of papers about >cold fusion. The bad news is that this does not appear to be having any >effect on public opinion or government policy, although I suppose you >never know what could be happening behind the scenes. The Scientific >American, Time Magazine, and the Washington Post still assert that cold >fusion is a "misdeed" compounded of error, ambition, haste and fraud, and >they still refuse to publish one word defending the work by the >researchers themselves. Time magazine recently featured global warming. It >said that global warming does exist, and that you should "be worried, be >very worried." It says technological solutions must be found, but it did >not mention cold fusion. > >- Jed > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Mar 29 14:16:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2TMGDLm016589; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:16:13 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2TMGBYH016536; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:16:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 14:16:11 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Sender:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=M0WNHGjDnUL2Aa3/lONa2ziDPI543KGRXs2HSWTQ+9QYLAjG4rJc6+AM0QgQ6nV0p32dK0eQ5B5rL5/AfUdvLPS+qnvY7SYIl1GCU3/mxtcXIMDZHg2ee2RQ8wcHzFwQLy97zTJyKpKbTUdxdqaGiGoUhgNLvXPwrIsCJvUH0tM= ; Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.1.20060329164821.01d78958@pop> X-Sender: philip.winestone@pop X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.1.1 Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:51:28 -0500 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Philip Winestone Subject: Re: Plug-in hybrid consortium In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060329135250.03d6e878@mindspring.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060329135250.03d6e878@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67297 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends5 Status: RO X-Status: Jed, I've always believed (from a technical standpoint) that hybrid driven vehicles are the way to go. I was actually just about to say that I'd STILL like to own a diesel truck (for towing) because of its high torque, but then I remembered that of course, electric motors can be designed to provide whatever torque characteristics one wants... The limitations appear to be batteries and other ancillaries.... Perhaps a diesel hybrid would be best. What's your take on that? Philip. At 01:54 PM 3/29/2006 -0500, you wrote: >See: > >http://www.hybridconsortium.org/ > >Some big-gun power companies manufacturers of batteries and >ultracapacitors are members of this consortium. See: > >http://www.hybridconsortium.org/members.html > >- Jed > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 07:08:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2UF81DP002734; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 07:08:02 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2UF7xD8002685; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 07:07:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 07:07:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <011901c6540b$b863cec0$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Subject: Electrogravity, "jerk" and "jounce" Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 07:07:53 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67299 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In the recent paper alluded to in a number of threads, Tajmar and de Matos reported a gravitational (mass loss) effect when spinning a superconducting ring "up to" 6500 rpm. Fourteen years earlier, Podkletnov claimed a larger gravitational effect when spinning a superconducting disk at a constant 5000 rpm. Podkletnov wasn't reproduced at first, and he gets fired from his university job, and is largely ignored even today. Sound familiar? T&M do mention Podkletnov in their paper. They admit that their effect is smaller than previously claimed by him, but the main distinction (generally ignored by many pundits) is that Podkletnov used an "unaccelerated" (constant velocity) superconducting disk, whereas the effect produced by T&M occurs *only* during acceleration. To me the obvious turning-point for proceeding further towards usable anti-gravity is to answer the question - what happens when the small effect of T&M is 'squared' or taken to even higher power ? i.e. when there is (acceleration of acceleration)^2 ? On Vortex, we have been accustomed to calling this first higher order acceleration "jerk." But then again, we share the respect in physics that the Jamaican Bobsled Team gets in sports... How does the JBT accomplish the aforementioned feat (acceleration of acceleration) ? Easy, mon ... and down that spliff to hear me out, mon. It be called "multi-axis spin". In practice, one does not want to be forced to keep accelerating and decelerating the disk over-and-over - so two axis spin is the solution to provide (virtual) acceleration to a constant spin - but this is not enough. 3-axes of spin is probably sufficient to give a significant but still-too-small effect (surely 3-axes of spin could maximize the Aspden effect, at least). If the Aspden effect is indeed a polarization of space on one axis, then even two axes will polarize the enclosed 3-space - what more is to be gained by a third axis of spin ? ... is it anti-gravity ... ? No. I think the point about 'jerk' being an exponential increase could be moving towards the key that pushes such a device incorporating 3-axes spin into a realm where - if everything else is extremely efficient (in terms of converting energy into angular momentum), then a usable mass anomaly is feasible. But why stop with jerk, if you want to fly-high, mon ? dL/dT ......VELOCITY d2L/dT2 ....ACCELERATION d3L/dt3 ....JERK d4L/dT4 ....JOUNCE This requires in effect four axes of spin Query: Does the jounce effect eliminate the "arrow of time" which is presumably the M.O. of "The Machine" ... (as in Jodie-Jounce) ?? Jones BTW ... Speaking of the "arrow of time" ... is that idiom related to why Carl chose to name Jodie "Arroway" for the flick ... get it? But then again... Carl shared other things in common with the JBT ...... beyond the love of spicy chicken.... way beyond. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 07:52:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2UFpxTK028006; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 07:51:59 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2UFpw2V027986; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 07:51:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 07:51:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060330104851.03dc5c88@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:51:41 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: CMNS: Re: Mizuno type experiments In-Reply-To: <96e44dd6b3f61ba2c072d74acf15302e@mail.montclair.edu> References: <0e97536f9ffd9a397036e50860a133d8@mail.montclair.edu> <1143679581.560601.96060@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> <0afe01c653d7$d21e8f50$3800a8c0@zothan> <1143723555.520252.230870@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com> <0b4301c65405$19504b20$3800a8c0@zothan> <1143729641.139284.3510@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> <96e44dd6b3f61ba2c072d74acf15302e@mail.montclair.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67300 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ludwik Kowalski wrote: >Mizuno type cells are very different from Fleischmann type cells >that have been used by most CF researchers. But M. McKubre, E. >Storms, P. Boss, S. Szpak and Richard Oriani are >electrochemists; their opinion would mean much more than opinion of >numerous amateurs. Actually, Storms is not, as he pointed out, but I nominated him Honorary Electrochemist First Class, and I think Mike McKubre seconded the motion. Ohmori and Mizuno are electrochemists, and they have done very thorough investigations of the cell chemistry. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 08:10:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2UGAEVC004936; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:10:15 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2UGA5Qm004760; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:10:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:10:05 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: Electrogravity, "jerk" and "jounce" Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 11:18:36 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <011901c6540b$b863cec0$6401a8c0@NuDell> Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67301 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Jones, The gravitomagnetic field exists whether the rotation is constant or varying. Due to the fact that Martin Tajmar has only accellerometers to work with, he can only measure the time change of that field. This simple fact hobbles the whole field of gravitomagnetics. Along with the poor choice of name ( Kineto-massic or better just Kinetic, would be so much more appropriate. ) BTW, I'm delighted that someone on this forum seems to have read Martins paper. Have you read any of the others I listed? K. -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene [mailto:jonesb9@pacbell.net] Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 10:08 AM To: vortex Subject: Electrogravity, "jerk" and "jounce" In the recent paper alluded to in a number of threads, Tajmar and de Matos reported a gravitational (mass loss) effect when spinning a superconducting ring "up to" 6500 rpm. Fourteen years earlier, Podkletnov claimed a larger gravitational effect when spinning a superconducting disk at a constant 5000 rpm. Podkletnov wasn't reproduced at first, and he gets fired from his university job, and is largely ignored even today. Sound familiar? T&M do mention Podkletnov in their paper. They admit that their effect is smaller than previously claimed by him, but the main distinction (generally ignored by many pundits) is that Podkletnov used an "unaccelerated" (constant velocity) superconducting disk, whereas the effect produced by T&M occurs *only* during acceleration. To me the obvious turning-point for proceeding further towards usable anti-gravity is to answer the question - what happens when the small effect of T&M is 'squared' or taken to even higher power ? i.e. when there is (acceleration of acceleration)^2 ? On Vortex, we have been accustomed to calling this first higher order acceleration "jerk." But then again, we share the respect in physics that the Jamaican Bobsled Team gets in sports... How does the JBT accomplish the aforementioned feat (acceleration of acceleration) ? Easy, mon ... and down that spliff to hear me out, mon. It be called "multi-axis spin". In practice, one does not want to be forced to keep accelerating and decelerating the disk over-and-over - so two axis spin is the solution to provide (virtual) acceleration to a constant spin - but this is not enough. 3-axes of spin is probably sufficient to give a significant but still-too-small effect (surely 3-axes of spin could maximize the Aspden effect, at least). If the Aspden effect is indeed a polarization of space on one axis, then even two axes will polarize the enclosed 3-space - what more is to be gained by a third axis of spin ? ... is it anti-gravity ... ? No. I think the point about 'jerk' being an exponential increase could be moving towards the key that pushes such a device incorporating 3-axes spin into a realm where - if everything else is extremely efficient (in terms of converting energy into angular momentum), then a usable mass anomaly is feasible. But why stop with jerk, if you want to fly-high, mon ? dL/dT ......VELOCITY d2L/dT2 ....ACCELERATION d3L/dt3 ....JERK d4L/dT4 ....JOUNCE This requires in effect four axes of spin Query: Does the jounce effect eliminate the "arrow of time" which is presumably the M.O. of "The Machine" ... (as in Jodie-Jounce) ?? Jones BTW ... Speaking of the "arrow of time" ... is that idiom related to why Carl chose to name Jodie "Arroway" for the flick ... get it? But then again... Carl shared other things in common with the JBT ...... beyond the love of spicy chicken.... way beyond. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 09:01:34 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2UH1Leu025679; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:01:21 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2UH1Ji4025658; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:01:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:01:19 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <013b01c6541b$8de58fc0$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: Subject: Re: Electrogravity, "jerk" and "jounce" Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:01:13 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: <4DJ4KB.A.xQG.e7ALEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67302 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Keith > BTW, I'm delighted that someone on this forum seems to have read > Martins paper. Have you read any of the others I listed? No. In fact I had forgotten about them. Everyone here seems to have a narrow field of specific interest and mine is not anti-gravity per-se, EXCEPT to the extent that it portends overunity or new sources of energy. And in truth, you will always have some degree of overunity if you have antigravity, but not the other way around. Consequently, if your goal is more oriented towards earthbound "free" energy (despite the misnomer), there may be easier ways to get to that without resorting to overcoming gravity - which is such a comparatively weak force, as those things go. Excuses...excuses... Anyway... Keith, you seem pretty confident that acceleration is not required for this particular effect, despite the implications of T&M. Care to expound on your reasoning? ( I presume it comes from the unread papers) Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 09:27:12 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2UHQtpM004392; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:26:56 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2UHQrn5004371; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:26:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:26:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 12:26:47 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8223641D1C329-1428-1775@mblkn-m08.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <011901c6540b$b863cec0$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <011901c6540b$b863cec0$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Electrogravity, "jerk" and "jounce" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.72 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2UHQpbe004346 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67303 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene T&M do mention Podkletnov in their paper. They admit that their effect is smaller than previously claimed by him, but the main distinction (generally ignored by many pundits) is that Podkletnov used an "unaccelerated" (constant velocity) superconducting disk, whereas the effect produced by T&M occurs *only* during acceleration.  <><><><><><> That's not the way I remember it. Podkletnov did both: "A high-temperature $YBa_2Cu_3O_{7-x}$ bulk ceramic superconductor with composite structure has revealed weak shielding properties against gravitational force in the state of levitation at temperatures below 70 $K$. A toroidal disk was prepared using conventional ceramic technology in combination with melt-texture growth. Two solenoids were placed around the disk in order to initiate the current inside it and also to provide rotation about its central axis. Samples placed over the rotating disk demonstrated a weight loss of 0.3-0.5\%. When the rotation speed was slowly reduced by changing the current in the solenoids, the shielding effect became considerably higher and reached 1.9-2.1\% at maximum." http://amasci.com/freenrg/pod1.txt ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 09:37:02 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2UHabaL009812; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:36:37 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2UHaZYt009790; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:36:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:36:35 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: Electrogravity, "jerk" and "jounce" Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 12:45:31 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <013b01c6541b$8de58fc0$6401a8c0@NuDell> Importance: Normal X-Rcpt-To: Resent-Message-ID: <4r9-OC.A.1YC.jcBLEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67304 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jones, you write: >Everyone here seems to >have a narrow field of specific interest and mine is not >anti-gravity per-se, EXCEPT to the extent that it portends >overunity or new sources of energy. A plethora of mouths, and no ears. A hallmark of our age, don't you think? >Anyway... Keith, you seem pretty confident that acceleration is >not required for this particular effect, despite the implications >of T&M. Oh, it's exactly what Martin is showing, and I'm sure he would agree with me. As I wrote, all he has to work with is accelerometers so _of course_ he needs to be focused on the rate of change of the gravitomagnetic field. If he had gravitomagnetic sensors then he could measure the gravitomagnetic London moment directly. The best thing I can suggest is to read the papers I listed from most recent back, three or four of them ought to be sufficient. But better would be to familiarize yourself with other material on the subject, that Jefimenko book Horace and I were writing about would be a good place to start. After the slashdot crowd calms down, I'll email Martin with some thoughts about his experiments. First rate work, IMHO. But I do want to finish reading all his papers before I comment. K. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 09:39:18 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2UHcxX2011328; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:38:59 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2UHcumh011305; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:38:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:38:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <014c01c65420$d0a77580$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <011901c6540b$b863cec0$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C8223641D1C329-1428-1775@mblkn-m08.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: Electrogravity, "jerk" and "jounce" Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:38:53 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67305 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Terry, > That's not the way I remember it. Podkletnov did both: > http://amasci.com/freenrg/pod1.txt Yup. I stand corrected. ....Which makes me wonder even more why Keith seems to be suggesting that the effect is independent of acceleration and (looking ahead) would be unlikely to benefit from jerk or jounce. Jones Note: I am not suggestion that acceleration (jerk, jounce) are absolutely required in the sense of a sine-qua-non... Only that higher order motion can possibly boost the effect to usable levels. ... and BTW is there any indication that NASA has taken that project "black" ? From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 09:40:41 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2UHeLvW012128; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:40:21 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2UHeJFM012107; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:40:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:40:19 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060330124000.03ce0250@mindspring.com> Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060330115424.03c58570@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 12:40:08 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: LENR-CANR bandwidth crunch avoided Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67306 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yesterday I almost ran out of bandwidth so I purchased an extra 1 GB for $5. The ISP screen then changed to show 26 GB capacity this month, instead of 25. I checked again in the evening, and it had changed to 51 GB! I thought the computer had gone haywire, so I contacted the ISP. It turns out yesterday they increased total bandwidth from 25 to 50 GB per month. The cost is still $30/month. This works out to be incredibly cheap compared to other methods of distributing information. The Internet is now about 4 times cheaper than mailing CD-ROMs, and roughly 3,000 times cheaper than printing and mailing documents on paper. Here is a quick comparison, with data for this month so far, as of 11:00 a.m. today: Papers distributed: 21,003 (including 600 books) Megabytes used: 24,470 MB Average megabytes per paper including overhead: 1.2 MB Cost per month: $30 Maximum bandwidth (new): 50,000 MB Maximum capacity: 42,916 papers/month Lowest cost per paper (assuming 100% of bandwidth used): 0.07 cents Cost of distributing one CD-ROM worth of data (673 MB): $0.40 cents Cost of mailing a CD-ROM, including media, packaging and postage: ~$2.00 (A typical CD-ROM is not full, but by the same token during a typical month we do not use up 100% of bandwidth.) Papers distributed by LENR-CANR so far: 500,000 Cost (new bandwidth rate): $350 Cost of copying and mailing a typical 5-page paper: ~$2 (This is based on copy and mailing service rates at UCLA and elsewhere.) Cost of distributing same number of papers by mail or in books: ~$1 million The cost of distributing 500,000 papers by CD-ROM is impossible to compute because it would depend upon how many papers you fit on each CD-ROM. Francesco Celani is distributing a CD-ROM titled "Cold Fusion, a theoretical and technological challenge for a more clean nuclear power." I have been trying to persuade him to put the contents on the Internet instead of using a CD-ROM. He should upload the information to his own web page, or to LENR-CANR.org and ISCMNS -- or better yet to all three sites. The more places you upload papers, the better. Not only is this cheaper, it is more convenient for the reader. People all over the world can easily find the papers via Google. Young scientists always look for information on the Internet first. Printed books and CD-ROMs have been obsolete for 20 years. I cannot understand why Celani and other cold fusion researchers do not make the best use of the most modern resources. He can reach an reach an audience thousands of times larger via the Internet than he can with a CD-ROM. As for printed books, you might as well use hand-written handwritten papyrus scrolls. It is ridiculous to be selling books of printed scientific papers in the 21st century. Of course books have their uses. Storms and other who are already familiar with the field like to have them around for reference. But a book or a conference will never spread knowledge about cold fusion to a new audience. LENR-CANR.org and ISCMNS probably reach more new readers every month than all of the ICCF conferences and printed proceedings and printed journal papers combined. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 09:47:20 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2UHl0xv016040; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:47:01 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2UHkxFM016023; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:46:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:46:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 12:46:47 -0500 Message-Id: <8C822390D089A7F-1428-182A@mblkn-m08.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <011901c6540b$b863cec0$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C8223641D1C329-1428-1775@mblkn-m08.sysops.aol.com> <014c01c65420$d0a77580$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <014c01c65420$d0a77580$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Electrogravity, "jerk" and "jounce" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.72 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2UHktu2015980 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67307 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene ... and BTW is there any indication that NASA has taken that project "black" ?   <><><><><><><> More like grey: http://tinyurl.com/oj2fo ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 10:50:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2UIo62R010908; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:50:07 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2UIo39M010850; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:50:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:50:03 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <039b01c6542a$bffbfd00$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <011901c6540b$b863cec0$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C8223641D1C329-1428-1775@mblkn-m08.sysops.aol.com> <014c01c65420$d0a77580$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C822390D089A7F-1428-182A@mblkn-m08.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: Electrogravity, "jerk" and "jounce" Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:50:00 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67308 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Since it is not totally obvious, here is the poor-bloke's way to convert antigravity into free energy - should your antigravity experiment show a consistent 1% weight loss in the vector from earth's center out into space.... riiiight. Get hold of a good heavy flywheel The easiest way is to buy and canabalize old flywheel stamping press. These can be had from GM now at fire-sale prices, and for carry-off if you wait for bankruptcy. Place you AG device under either side of the flywheel axis (depending on whether you want CW or CCW rotation). A 10,000 pound flywheel on good bearings is what you need. You can attach permanent magnets and coils directly to the platens of the press for taking-off power. A 1% weight loss on one side of the flywheel at a conservative 60 rpm is 100 pounds at ~1 meter per second (diameter of flywheel) and is equal to about a .4 kilowatt-second or 24 kWh. You may need to feed half of this power back into you AG device and most of that to keep it cryogenic. This device may be rather loud at night, but if the neighbors complain, just wire them up too ... as you have plenty to spare... and sooner or later it will be the "sound of money" anyway ... Ha! kinda like that Reno slot machine spilling out its guts every time you pull the lever. I heard that Terry was driving over to Doraville to get his stamping press soon... From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 10:58:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2UIwH1p014753; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:58:17 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2UIwGNx014736; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:58:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 10:58:16 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 13:58:08 -0500 Message-Id: <8C822430502355C-1428-1A7D@mblkn-m08.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <011901c6540b$b863cec0$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C8223641D1C329-1428-1775@mblkn-m08.sysops.aol.com> <014c01c65420$d0a77580$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C822390D089A7F-1428-182A@mblkn-m08.sysops.aol.com> <039b01c6542a$bffbfd00$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <039b01c6542a$bffbfd00$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Electrogravity, "jerk" and "jounce" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.72 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2UIwFZG014719 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67309 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene I heard that Terry was driving over to Doraville to get his stamping press soon...  <><><><><><><> Doraville or Hapeville. . . they're closing the Fnord plant too. BUT! West Point, GA is getting a Kia plant. BTW, Ning Li always said her AG devices were conservative; so, no FE from her. Terry   ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 13:17:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2ULGtSq000360; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 13:16:55 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2ULGin2032727; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 13:16:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 13:16:44 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrogravity, "jerk" and "jounce" Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:16:41 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3vlo2219qp16h56lrmqoft0ec3pk9g7i6j@4ax.com> References: <011901c6540b$b863cec0$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C8223641D1C329-1428-1775@mblkn-m08.sysops.aol.com> <014c01c65420$d0a77580$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C822390D089A7F-1428-182A@mblkn-m08.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C822390D089A7F-1428-182A@mblkn-m08.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta05ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Thu, 30 Mar 2006 21:16:40 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2ULGfpl032703 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67310 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to hohlrauml6d@netscape.net's message of Thu, 30 Mar 2006 12:46:47 -0500: Hi, [snip] >More like grey: > >http://tinyurl.com/oj2fo [snip] A quote from http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/8/prweb147720.htm "The beam, which Podkletnov claims is produced by a high-voltage discharge onto a 4-inch diameter superconductor, is said to have a range in excess of 5 kilometers, and capable of penetrating materials without a loss in energy. It is said to be powerful enough to shatter brick, punch holes through concrete, and deforms metal targets "like hitting it with a sledgehammer" This sort of thing really makes me wonder sometimes. How can a beam that is "capable of penetrating materials without a loss in energy" shatter target material? How does it decide whether to go through or destroy? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 18:38:19 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2V2c7JF009549; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:38:07 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2V2c4SD009527; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:38:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:38:04 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=ry/klEzWrB6qUZnqMMGtmb2EXGAr7zw9X8iTlV3Uo6CsRLhTy1WA+NPvt/A9IyAp; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006353123759623@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Pulse Delay Line & Charge Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:37:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94059478796f9df176f25fc2597e83424ae350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.201 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67311 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Delay lines are LC circuits or a section of coaxial cable or two-wire line. While thinking about making an open-ended one using a solid wire and some small capacitors so that when a battery is switched into one end and disconnected, if the line was lossless the pulse would go to the end of the line sequentially charging the capacitors and inductors until it reflects back on getting to the last capacitor. The Charge Q that is "walking the line" equals each incremental capacitor, C times battery voltage V. that discharges through the increment of wire self-inductance L. Then I wanted to form this arrangement into a loop so that the pulse would "walk the line" in a circle at a velocity v = c. To the spacing of the capacitors (and wire increments) right I decided to space them so that in a circle they would be 0.4181 degrees apart: 360/[0.4181] = 861.038 However 861.038/137.03 = 2 (pi) . :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
    Delay lines are LC  circuits or a section of coaxial cable or two-wire
    line.
    While thinking about  making an open-ended one  using a solid wire and
    some small capacitors so that when a battery is switched
    into one end and disconnected, if the line was lossless the pulse
    would go to the  end of the line sequentially charging the capacitors
    and inductors until it reflects back on getting to the last capacitor.
    The Charge Q that is "walking the line"  equals each incremental capacitor,
    C  times battery voltage V. that discharges through the increment of wire
    self-inductance L.
    Then I wanted to form this arrangement into a loop so that the
    pulse would "walk the line" in a circle at a velocity v = c.
     
    To the spacing of the capacitors (and wire increments) right I decided to space them so
    that in a circle they would be 0.4181 degrees apart:
     
    360/[0.4181] = 861.038   However 861.038/137.03 =  2 (pi)  .    :-)
     
    Fred
    ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 19:33:35 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2V3XPpR028409; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:33:25 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2V3XOTv028395; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:33:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:33:24 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 22:33:46 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: New Scientist on bubble fusion In-reply-to: To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2V3XLHd028367 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67312 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: What do Vorts make of the californium claim below? Harry Are days numbered for 'bubble fusion'? 18 March 2006 NewScientist.com news service THE prospect of cheap energy from tabletop "bubble fusion" seems as far from reality as ever, with its biggest proponent under scrutiny following the failure of others to reproduce his results. Bubble fusion is the idea that blasting a liquid with sound can make bubbles grow within it and then collapse, generating high enough temperatures to trigger thermonuclear fusion. Rusi Taleyarkhan, a nuclear engineer at Purdue University in West Lafayette, Indiana, has published a steady stream of papers over the past few years claiming bubble fusion works. Other researchers have tried and failed to reproduce his work. In January, Taleyarkhan released for the first time raw data of the energy spectrum of the neutrons he claimed were by-products of fusion reactions. His results were re-analysed by Brian Naranjo, a graduate student at Seth Putterman's lab at the University of California, Los Angeles. Naranjo concludes there is less than a one in a million chance that fusion could have produced the observed spectrum. It is, however, a good match for neutrons emitted by the element californium, Naranjo says, and he has submitted his conclusions for publication. Taleyarkhan admits there was californium near his experiment but denies it is the source of the neutrons he saw. "I was very shocked by the allegations," he told New Scientist. ³Other researchers have tried and failed to reproduce the bubble fusion results² Purdue University's own internal inquiry into the allegations is expected to last several months. >From issue 2543 of New Scientist magazine, 18 March 2006, page 6 From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Mar 30 21:15:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2V5FBdw031306; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 21:15:12 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2V5F9LW031287; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 21:15:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 21:15:09 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060331051501485.769421C00082@mwinf3008.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060331051502.00a0b8a8@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 06:15:02 +0100 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Electrogravity, "jerk" and "jounce" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67313 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:16 am 31/03/2006 +1000, you wrote: >In reply to hohlrauml6d@netscape.net's message of Thu, 30 Mar >2006 12:46:47 -0500: >Hi, >[snip] >>More like grey: >> >>http://tinyurl.com/oj2fo >[snip] >A quote from http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/8/prweb147720.htm > >"The beam, which Podkletnov claims is produced by a high-voltage >discharge onto a 4-inch diameter superconductor, is said to have a >range in excess of 5 kilometers, and capable of penetrating >materials without a loss in energy. It is said to be powerful >enough to shatter brick, punch holes through concrete, and deforms >metal targets "like hitting it with a sledgehammer" > >This sort of thing really makes me wonder sometimes. How can a >beam that is "capable of penetrating materials without a loss in >energy" shatter target material? How does it decide whether to go >through or destroy? > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk I must confess that puzzled me too, Robin. Maybe Podkletnov was like my mother. During the London Blitz she would hear a story whilst out shopping that a bomb in my local borough of Wembley had killed 2 people - by the time she got home the number had risen to 20. Frank Grimer On the other hand I suppose the beam could have a very long focal length and only destroy at the focal point. It would certainly be a useful weapon for bumping off people you didn't like without any collateral damage. 8-) From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 00:41:24 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2V8fCXT003124; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 00:41:13 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2V8fBHT003110; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 00:41:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 00:41:11 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:43:02 +0100 From: "Chambers, Robert (UK)" Subject: RE: Electrogravity, "jerk" and "jounce" To: vortex Message-id: <984B4C94D7A59C48813E1C37EAB67C6E27DB00@glkms2121.greenlnk.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Thread-Topic: Electrogravity, "jerk" and "jounce" Thread-Index: AcZUlr2b+CbJJGmET7y6NHWIcuorIw== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Mar 2006 07:43:38.0773 (UTC) FILETIME=[D2F4E450:01C65496] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2V8f1Gd003038 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67314 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A couple of correctiuons - the Tajmar result was a slight increase in gravitational force, not a decrease, and Podkletnov observed the greatest effect during braking (i.e. deceleration) of the disc, not during constant speed rotation. Rob -----Original Message----- In the recent paper alluded to in a number of threads, Tajmar and de Matos reported a gravitational (mass loss) effect when spinning a superconducting ring "up to" 6500 rpm. Fourteen years earlier, Podkletnov claimed a larger gravitational effect when spinning a superconducting disk at a constant 5000 rpm. T&M do mention Podkletnov in their paper. They admit that their effect is smaller than previously claimed by him, but the main distinction (generally ignored by many pundits) is that Podkletnov used an "unaccelerated" (constant velocity) superconducting disk, whereas the effect produced by T&M occurs *only* during acceleration. ******************************************************************** This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. ******************************************************************** From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 01:34:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2V9YKCH022083; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 01:34:20 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2V9YHmW022057; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 01:34:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 01:34:17 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Wxa1XehFWs37rfZ7QW+JyN56oS9zob1XHRo71LiSyIC3tNVdpQ9Vn8ZC+0xaKsIk; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200635319344715@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Pulse Delay Line & Charge Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 02:34:04 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94011291e932e425a3125529e33b363b21b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.71 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67315 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII IOW , 861/[2 (pi)] = 137.0324, implying that nature prefers having 861 LC increments in a circling trapped photon (a particle). However, in order to traverse a 1.0 meter circle in 1/c seconds, 1/3.0e8 = 3.333e-9 seconds whilst sequentially charging up 861 LC increments in time t = (1/LC)^1/2 seconds the speed of light =3.333e-9/861 = 3.874e-12 seconds per increment, the faster than light velocity has to be 137.0324 *c, or the wavelerngth hc/E has to be reduced by a factor of 137.0324. Thus the particle radius (wavelength/[2 (pi)] is reduced by the same factor. OTOH, the electron orbiting at c/137.0324 in the ground-state Bohr Orbit has 861 increments with a time t = (1/LC)^1/2 = 3.333e-9 seconds = 1/c. I can't speak for "Fractional Orbit Hydrinos" where it would require 861/n vacuum LC increments. Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 3/30/2006 7:38:44 PM Subject: Re: Pulse Delay Line & Charge Delay lines are LC circuits or a section of coaxial cable or two-wire line. While thinking about making an open-ended one using a solid wire and some small capacitors so that when a battery is switched into one end and disconnected, if the line was lossless the pulse would go to the end of the line sequentially charging the capacitors and inductors until it reflects back on getting to the last capacitor. The Charge Q that is "walking the line" equals each incremental capacitor, C times battery voltage V. that discharges through the increment of wire self-inductance L. Then I wanted to form this arrangement into a loop so that the pulse would "walk the line" in a circle at a velocity v = c. To the spacing of the capacitors (and wire increments) right I decided to space them so that in a circle they would be 0.4181 degrees apart: 360/[0.4181] = 861.038 However 861.038/137.03 = 2 (pi) . :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
    IOW , 861/[2 (pi)] =  137.0324, implying that nature prefers having 861 LC increments
    in a  circling trapped  photon (a particle).
    However, in order to traverse a 1.0 meter circle in  1/c seconds, 1/3.0e8 = 3.333e-9 seconds
    whilst sequentially charging up 861 LC increments in time  t = (1/LC)^1/2 seconds
    the speed of light  =3.333e-9/861 = 3.874e-12 seconds per increment, the
    faster than light velocity has to be 137.0324 *c, or the wavelerngth hc/E
    has to be reduced by a factor of 137.0324.  Thus the particle radius (wavelength/[2 (pi)]
    is reduced by the same factor.
     
    OTOH, the electron orbiting at  c/137.0324 in the ground-state Bohr Orbit  has
    861 increments with a  time  t  =  (1/LC)^1/2 = 3.333e-9  seconds = 1/c.
     
    I can't speak for "Fractional Orbit Hydrinos" where it would require 861/n vacuum LC increments. 
     
    Fred
    ----- Original Message -----
    Sent: 3/30/2006 7:38:44 PM
    Subject: Re: Pulse Delay Line & Charge

    Delay lines are LC  circuits or a section of coaxial cable or two-wire
    line.
    While thinking about  making an open-ended one  using a solid wire and
    some small capacitors so that when a battery is switched
    into one end and disconnected, if the line was lossless the pulse
    would go to the  end of the line sequentially charging the capacitors
    and inductors until it reflects back on getting to the last capacitor.
    The Charge Q that is "walking the line"  equals each incremental capacitor,
    C  times battery voltage V. that discharges through the increment of wire
    self-inductance L.
    Then I wanted to form this arrangement into a loop so that the
    pulse would "walk the line" in a circle at a velocity v = c.
     
    To the spacing of the capacitors (and wire increments) right I decided to space them so
    that in a circle they would be 0.4181 degrees apart:
     
    360/[0.4181] = 861.038   However 861.038/137.03 =  2 (pi)  .    :-)
     
    Fred
    ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 02:22:24 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2VALXAN003729; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 02:21:34 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2VALNAD003675; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 02:21:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 02:21:23 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=DKleYBpzKWnuU8YcIpkGPYjwa08/MqYL2BeOKb4F7heWReCFUYOoQ/RuAo2Kz0+e; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006353110215126@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Pulse Delay Line & Charge Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 03:21:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94062e59265a28e5d0881b9e456a90c9f2b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.201 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67316 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII BTW, 1/tan 0.4181 degrees = 137.0360 2 (pi) has to come out right for the frequency Hz to come out as complete integers. No such thing as 0.999999 Hz. No? Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 3/31/2006 2:35:15 AM Subject: Re: Pulse Delay Line & Charge IOW , 861/[2 (pi)] = 137.0324, implying that nature prefers having 861 LC increments in a circling trapped photon (a particle). However, in order to traverse a 1.0 meter circle in 1/c seconds, 1/3.0e8 = 3.333e-9 seconds whilst sequentially charging up 861 LC increments in time t = (1/LC)^1/2 seconds the speed of light =3.333e-9/861 = 3.874e-12 seconds per increment, the faster than light velocity has to be 137.0324 *c, or the wavelerngth hc/E has to be reduced by a factor of 137.0324. Thus the particle radius (wavelength/[2 (pi)] is reduced by the same factor. OTOH, the electron orbiting at c/137.0324 in the ground-state Bohr Orbit has 861 increments with a time t = (1/LC)^1/2 = 3.333e-9 seconds = 1/c. I can't speak for "Fractional Orbit Hydrinos" where it would require 861/n vacuum LC increments. Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 3/30/2006 7:38:44 PM Subject: Re: Pulse Delay Line & Charge Delay lines are LC circuits or a section of coaxial cable or two-wire line. While thinking about making an open-ended one using a solid wire and some small capacitors so that when a battery is switched into one end and disconnected, if the line was lossless the pulse would go to the end of the line sequentially charging the capacitors and inductors until it reflects back on getting to the last capacitor. The Charge Q that is "walking the line" equals each incremental capacitor, C times battery voltage V. that discharges through the increment of wire self-inductance L. Then I wanted to form this arrangement into a loop so that the pulse would "walk the line" in a circle at a velocity v = c. To the spacing of the capacitors (and wire increments) right I decided to space them so that in a circle they would be 0.4181 degrees apart: 360/[0.4181] = 861.038 However 861.038/137.03 = 2 (pi) . :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
    BTW, 1/tan 0.4181 degrees = 137.0360
     
    2 (pi) has to come out right for the frequency Hz to come out as complete  integers.
     
    No such thing as 0.999999 Hz.  No?
     
    Fred
    ----- Original Message -----
    Sent: 3/31/2006 2:35:15 AM
    Subject: Re: Pulse Delay Line & Charge

    IOW , 861/[2 (pi)] =  137.0324, implying that nature prefers having 861 LC increments
    in a  circling trapped  photon (a particle).
    However, in order to traverse a 1.0 meter circle in  1/c seconds, 1/3.0e8 = 3.333e-9 seconds
    whilst sequentially charging up 861 LC increments in time  t = (1/LC)^1/2 seconds
    the speed of light  =3.333e-9/861 = 3.874e-12 seconds per increment, the
    faster than light velocity has to be 137.0324 *c, or the wavelerngth hc/E
    has to be reduced by a factor of 137.0324.  Thus the particle radius (wavelength/[2 (pi)]
    is reduced by the same factor.
     
    OTOH, the electron orbiting at  c/137.0324 in the ground-state Bohr Orbit  has
    861 increments with a  time  t  =  (1/LC)^1/2 = 3.333e-9  seconds = 1/c.
     
    I can't speak for "Fractional Orbit Hydrinos" where it would require 861/n vacuum LC increments. 
     
    Fred
    ----- Original Message -----
    Sent: 3/30/2006 7:38:44 PM
    Subject: Re: Pulse Delay Line & Charge

    Delay lines are LC  circuits or a section of coaxial cable or two-wire
    line.
    While thinking about  making an open-ended one  using a solid wire and
    some small capacitors so that when a battery is switched
    into one end and disconnected, if the line was lossless the pulse
    would go to the  end of the line sequentially charging the capacitors
    and inductors until it reflects back on getting to the last capacitor.
    The Charge Q that is "walking the line"  equals each incremental capacitor,
    C  times battery voltage V. that discharges through the increment of wire
    self-inductance L.
    Then I wanted to form this arrangement into a loop so that the
    pulse would "walk the line" in a circle at a velocity v = c.
     
    To the spacing of the capacitors (and wire increments) right I decided to space them so
    that in a circle they would be 0.4181 degrees apart:
     
    360/[0.4181] = 861.038   However 861.038/137.03 =  2 (pi)  .    :-)
     
    Fred
    ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 06:52:24 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2VEqGCU011214; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 06:52:16 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2VEqCoN011190; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 06:52:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 06:52:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <001d01c654d2$afee1940$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <984B4C94D7A59C48813E1C37EAB67C6E27DB00@glkms2121.greenlnk.net> Subject: Re: Electrogravity, "jerk" and "jounce" Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 06:52:08 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67317 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: OK. We seem to have the critical details of these contrasting experiments now in order. Unless there is some fundamental difference in the effects of deceleration vs. acceleration, then the original question remains: where do we (the gravity experimentalists and/or kibitzers of the world) go from here (expediently) ? This important question is still begging for some guidance. My contention (from the first post) is that the higher orders of acceleration - "jerk" or preferably "jounce" should magnify the small effect exponentially. There may be other ways to accomplish this higher order of acceleration, but the suggestion of "multi-axis spin" is one way, perhaps the easiest way. Admittedly there is no experimental evidence "for" or "against" this supposition/suggestion, so the next question is ... are there valid theoretical or hypothetical reasons why this course of action (or something similar) would not be the expedient way to proceed towards the goal of finding a useful level of antigravity (enhanced gravity) ?? Jones BTW - for the production of so-called free-energy, enhancing gravity might make more sense then reducing it - as the infrastructure is already in place to benefit immediately. Imagine gravity-enhancing devices placed in critical locations in a hydroelectric dam - for instance. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chambers, Robert (UK)" > A couple of corrections - the Tajmar result was a slight > increase in > gravitational force, not a decrease, and Podkletnov observed the > greatest effect during braking (i.e. deceleration) of the disc, > not > during constant speed rotation. > Rob > -----Original Message----- > In the recent paper alluded to in a number of threads, Tajmar > and de > Matos reported a gravitational (mass loss) effect when spinning > a > superconducting ring "up to" 6500 rpm. Fourteen years earlier, > Podkletnov claimed a larger gravitational effect when spinning a > superconducting disk at a constant 5000 rpm. > > T&M do mention Podkletnov in their paper. They admit that their > effect > is smaller than previously claimed by him, but the main > distinction > (generally ignored by many pundits) is that Podkletnov used an > "unaccelerated" (constant velocity) superconducting disk, > whereas the > effect produced by T&M occurs > *only* during acceleration. > > > ******************************************************************** > This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended > recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the > intended > recipient please delete it from your system and notify the > sender. > You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or > distribute its contents to any other person. > ******************************************************************** > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 07:01:34 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2VF1CBN015345; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:01:12 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2VF1AKf015318; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:01:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:01:10 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Z5+x7+6JkG3BTUTTJS7c88Ka6CryPKc3fTuzVTxMJj+Sq/9JcJswRLMENUbRYzQq; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006353115058352@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Pulse Delay Line & Charge Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:00:58 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940983fdab5c47e7bd0669c71cf125b163d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.103 Resent-Message-ID: <2H7XSC.A.NvD.1QULEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67318 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Summing it up OTOH, If two superconducting loops with radius r (meters) were spaced at a distance D (meters) where Capacitance C = .1.0e-12/ [3.2572 x ln D/r] Farad/meter, and inductance L = 1.0e-7 x 4.6229 x ln D/r Henry/meter ending up with an impedance (L/C)^1/2 of 377 ohms were tweaked with a battery pulse, they should oscillate indefinitly at a frequency of 300 MHz/meter of circumference. BTW, 1/tan 0.4181 degrees = 137.0360 2 (pi) has to come out right for the frequency Hz to come out as complete integers. No such thing as 0.999999 Hz. No? IOW , 861/[2 (pi)] = 137.0324, implying that nature prefers having 861 LC increments in a circling trapped photon (a particle). However, in order to traverse a 1.0 meter circle in 1/c seconds, 1/3.0e8 = 3.333e-9 seconds whilst sequentially charging up 861 LC increments in time t = (1/LC)^1/2 seconds the speed of light =3.333e-9/861 = 3.874e-12 seconds per increment, the faster than light velocity has to be 137.0324 *c, or the wavelerngth hc/E has to be reduced by a factor of 137.0324. Thus the particle radius (wavelength/[2 (pi)] is reduced by the same factor. OTOH, the electron orbiting at c/137.0324 in the ground-state Bohr Orbit has 861 increments with a time t = (1/LC)^1/2 = 3.333e-9 seconds = 1/c. I can't speak for "Fractional Orbit Hydrinos" where it would require 861/n vacuum LC increments. Delay lines are LC circuits or a section of coaxial cable or two-wire line. While thinking about making an open-ended one using a solid wire and some small capacitors so that when a battery is switched into one end and disconnected, if the line was lossless the pulse would go to the end of the line sequentially charging the capacitors and inductors until it reflects back on getting to the last capacitor. The Charge Q that is "walking the line" equals each incremental capacitor, C times battery voltage V. that discharges through the increment of wire self-inductance L. Then I wanted to form this arrangement into a loop so that the pulse would "walk the line" in a circle at a velocity v = c. To the spacing of the capacitors (and wire increments) right I decided to space them so that in a circle they would be 0.4181 degrees apart: 360/[0.4181] = 861.038 However 861.038/137.03 = 2 (pi) . :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
    Summing it up
     
    OTOH,
     
    If two superconducting loops with radius r (meters) were spaced at a distance
    D (meters) where Capacitance C = .1.0e-12/ [3.2572 x ln D/r]  Farad/meter,
    and inductance L = 1.0e-7 x 4.6229 x ln D/r  Henry/meter ending up with
    an impedance  (L/C)^1/2 of 377 ohms were tweaked with a battery pulse, they
    should oscillate indefinitly at a frequency of 300 MHz/meter of circumference.

    BTW, 1/tan 0.4181 degrees = 137.0360
     
    2 (pi) has to come out right for the frequency Hz to come out as complete  integers.
     
    No such thing as 0.999999 Hz.  No?
    IOW , 861/[2 (pi)] =  137.0324, implying that nature prefers having 861 LC increments
    in a  circling trapped  photon (a particle).
    However, in order to traverse a 1.0 meter circle in  1/c seconds, 1/3.0e8 = 3.333e-9 seconds
    whilst sequentially charging up 861 LC increments in time  t = (1/LC)^1/2 seconds
    the speed of light  =3.333e-9/861 = 3.874e-12 seconds per increment, the
    faster than light velocity has to be 137.0324 *c, or the wavelerngth hc/E
    has to be reduced by a factor of 137.0324.  Thus the particle radius (wavelength/[2 (pi)]
    is reduced by the same factor.
     
    OTOH, the electron orbiting at  c/137.0324 in the ground-state Bohr Orbit  has
    861 increments with a  time  t  =  (1/LC)^1/2 = 3.333e-9  seconds = 1/c.
     
    I can't speak for "Fractional Orbit Hydrinos" where it would require 861/n vacuum LC increments. 
    Delay lines are LC  circuits or a section of coaxial cable or two-wire
    line.
    While thinking about  making an open-ended one  using a solid wire and
    some small capacitors so that when a battery is switched
    into one end and disconnected, if the line was lossless the pulse
    would go to the  end of the line sequentially charging the capacitors
    and inductors until it reflects back on getting to the last capacitor.
    The Charge Q that is "walking the line"  equals each incremental capacitor,
    C  times battery voltage V. that discharges through the increment of wire
    self-inductance L.
    Then I wanted to form this arrangement into a loop so that the
    pulse would "walk the line" in a circle at a velocity v = c.
     
    To the spacing of the capacitors (and wire increments) right I decided to space them so
    that in a circle they would be 0.4181 degrees apart:
     
    360/[0.4181] = 861.038   However 861.038/137.03 =  2 (pi)  .    :-)
     
    Fred
    ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 07:13:19 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2VFD972021251; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:13:10 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2VFD760021234; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:13:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:13:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=nzsz33rFCbe1wzX4Fbk6v/5NhmEfq9AMy3msEC5KzVeDsDMapW9uS97juLBGJxaB; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006353115130240@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrogravity, "jerk" and "jounce" Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:13:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9403273551a071467a1e465f4219e5465b7350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.103 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67319 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: They '"decelerate it" by increasing the magnetic field of the solenoids don't they, Jones? Any device in rotation at a constant angular speed has a dv/dt = v^2/r acceleration because of the constant change of direction of the tangential velocity vector. Fred > [Original Message] > From: Jones Beene > To: > Date: 3/31/2006 7:52:55 AM > Subject: Re: Electrogravity, "jerk" and "jounce" > > OK. We seem to have the critical details of these contrasting > experiments now in order. > > Unless there is some fundamental difference in the effects of > deceleration vs. acceleration, then the original question remains: > where do we (the gravity experimentalists and/or kibitzers of the > world) go from here (expediently) ? This important question is > still begging for some guidance. > > My contention (from the first post) is that the higher orders of > acceleration - "jerk" or preferably "jounce" should magnify the > small effect exponentially. > > There may be other ways to accomplish this higher order of > acceleration, but the suggestion of "multi-axis spin" is one way, > perhaps the easiest way. > > Admittedly there is no experimental evidence "for" or "against" > this supposition/suggestion, so the next question is ... are there > valid theoretical or hypothetical reasons why this course of > action (or something similar) would not be the expedient way to > proceed towards the goal of finding a useful level of antigravity > (enhanced gravity) ?? > > Jones > > BTW - for the production of so-called free-energy, enhancing > gravity might make more sense then reducing it - as the > infrastructure is already in place to benefit immediately. > > Imagine gravity-enhancing devices placed in critical locations in > a hydroelectric dam - for instance. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chambers, Robert (UK)" > > > A couple of corrections - the Tajmar result was a slight > > increase in > > gravitational force, not a decrease, and Podkletnov observed the > > greatest effect during braking (i.e. deceleration) of the disc, > > not > > during constant speed rotation. > > > Rob > > > -----Original Message----- > > In the recent paper alluded to in a number of threads, Tajmar > > and de > > Matos reported a gravitational (mass loss) effect when spinning > > a > > superconducting ring "up to" 6500 rpm. Fourteen years earlier, > > Podkletnov claimed a larger gravitational effect when spinning a > > superconducting disk at a constant 5000 rpm. > > > > T&M do mention Podkletnov in their paper. They admit that their > > effect > > is smaller than previously claimed by him, but the main > > distinction > > (generally ignored by many pundits) is that Podkletnov used an > > "unaccelerated" (constant velocity) superconducting disk, > > whereas the > > effect produced by T&M occurs > > *only* during acceleration. > > > > > > ******************************************************************** > > This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended > > recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the > > intended > > recipient please delete it from your system and notify the > > sender. > > You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or > > distribute its contents to any other person. > > ******************************************************************** > > > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 07:58:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2VFwPqt007438; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:58:25 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2VFwN1j007412; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:58:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:58:23 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=L0X4gb+kqqkTxAObsPaLH605pNxiNE/eDyFbW5Dkrbu3Sbkkx5fwKNPmlZK08olI; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063531155813845@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Pulse Delay Line & Charge Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:58:13 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94051dcb1560dd1bea984524eff9dae0cf1350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.212 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67320 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > OTOH, > > If two superconducting loops with radius r (meters) were spaced at a distance > D (meters) where Capacitance C = .1.0e-12/ [3.2572 x ln D/r] Farad/meter, > and inductance L = 1.0e-7 x 4.6229 x ln D/r Henry/meter ending up with > an impedance (L/C)^1/2 of 377 ohms were tweaked with a battery pulse, they > should oscillate indefinitly at a frequency of 300 MHz/meter of circumference. > If you can get 10 Kw of energy in a loop about 314 meters in circumference 300 MHz/314 Meters = 955 KHz, and the direction-pulse "polarity" is right you should be able to go weightless without spinning a humongous magnet-flywheel at the destructive rpms that Jones and Terry are contemplating. If it don't flip over and crash. Fred Manic from too much Birthday cake. :-) ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
    > OTOH,
    >
    > If two superconducting loops with radius r (meters) were spaced at a distance
    > D (meters) where Capacitance C = .1.0e-12/ [3.2572 x ln D/r]  Farad/meter,
    > and inductance L = 1.0e-7 x 4.6229 x ln D/r  Henry/meter ending up with
    > an impedance  (L/C)^1/2 of 377 ohms were tweaked with a battery pulse, they
    > should oscillate indefinitly at a frequency of 300 MHz/meter of circumference.
    >
    If you can get 10 Kw of energy in a loop about 314 meters in circumference
    300 MHz/314 Meters = 955 KHz, and the direction-pulse "polarity" is right
    you should be able to go weightless without spinning a humongous
    magnet-flywheel at the destructive rpms that Jones and Terry are contemplating.  
     
    If it don't flip over and crash.
     
     
    Fred    Manic from too much Birthday cake.   :-)
    ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 08:00:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2VFxStt008122; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:59:28 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2VFxPis008085; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:59:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:59:25 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <005601c654dc$1220b6f0$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <410-22006353115130240@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Electrogravity, "jerk" and "jounce" Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:59:19 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67321 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred > They '"decelerate it" by increasing the magnetic field of the > solenoids don't they, Jones? Any device in rotation at a > constant angular speed has a dv/dt = v^2/r acceleration because > of the constant change of direction of the tangential velocity > vector. This raises an interesting point. Perhaps what is happening in these later experiments is that the "graviton" is more similar to a real photon than we have realized previously, and that there is a recirculating flux of these which is somewhat more real than virtual - in the sense that certain real phenomena in 3-space can interact with that flux. Curiously - WRT to the recent ESA group experiment, this might imply that only gravity-enhancement (as opposed to anti-gravity) is usable with superconducting technology - which acts somewhat like a "sail" against the flux at the interface. However the "return interface" may exist in yet another and more-deeply enfolded fractal (in the original sense of "factional dimension"). This would serve to denigrate the Podkletnov work, or course. Of the 250 successful experiments of the ESA group - were none of them showing an anti-gravity effect (as opposed to enhanced gravity)? I had been thinking that it depended on the direction of spin but I can't find that reference now. Jones BTW if you have ever experienced an animated fractal "journey" such as the one on the iMax screen ... it gives a visceral appreciation for traveling into another dimension in which there is a seemingly preferred vector but no real linearity or "signposts". It is little wonder that toakmaks and such are difficult to control; and the same will likely be true with gravity control. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 08:13:03 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2VGCjxx013570; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:12:46 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2VGCiqK013553; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:12:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:12:44 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <006201c654dd$efb5c310$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex-l" References: <410-220063531155813845@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Pulse Delay Line & Charge Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:12:40 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: <5QoCKC.A.pTD.8TVLEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67322 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Happy Birthday! I won't ask how many... ...but as close to Roswell as you are (and no doubt you have been down there a few times) I don't think any of those saucers could have been as large as you suggest ;-) ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber > If two superconducting loops with radius r (meters) were spaced > at a distance > D (meters) where Capacitance C = .1.0e-12/ [3.2572 x ln D/r] > Farad/meter, > and inductance L = 1.0e-7 x 4.6229 x ln D/r Henry/meter ending > up with > an impedance (L/C)^1/2 of 377 ohms were tweaked with a battery > pulse, they > should oscillate indefinitly at a frequency of 300 MHz/meter of > circumference. If you can get 10 Kw of energy in a loop about 314 meters in circumference 300 MHz/314 Meters = 955 KHz, and the direction-pulse "polarity" is right you should be able to go weightless without spinning a humongous magnet-flywheel at the destructive rpms that Jones and Terry are contemplating. If it don't flip over and crash. Fred Manic from too much Birthday cake. :-) From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 08:25:41 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2VGPRAp018960; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:25:28 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2VGPQat018944; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:25:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:25:26 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=M3k4cMervrh0umXjtJx89xwDVZUhMwNr5+Z3WkdB7VEmQDljcYcPhIXj9q1L2A3b; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063531162524269@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrogravity, "jerk" and "jounce" Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 09:25:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9407708330f32434406b65b89d36ebf3aff350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.212 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67323 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones wrote: > > Fred wrote. > > > They '"decelerate it" by increasing the magnetic field of the > > solenoids don't they, Jones? Any device in rotation at a > > constant angular speed has a dv/dt = v^2/r acceleration because > > of the constant change of direction of the tangential velocity > > vector. > > > Curiously - WRT to the recent ESA group experiment, this might > imply that only gravity-enhancement (as opposed to anti-gravity) > is usable with superconducting technology - which acts somewhat > like a "sail" against the flux at the interface. However the > "return interface" may exist in yet another and more-deeply > enfolded fractal (in the original sense of "factional dimension") I think proton "quarks" will always attract regardless of spin direction, but electrons manipulated-accelerated in the right manner can repel gravity if you can come up storing 10 KW/tonne. OTOH. using that magnetized stamping machine spinning as a gyro to stabilize the antigravity craft and adding AG force might explain the enormous weight that is attributed to "Encounters" Landing "footprints". Fred > > Jones > > BTW if you have ever experienced an animated fractal "journey" > such as the one on the iMax screen ... it gives a visceral > appreciation for traveling into another dimension in which there > is a seemingly preferred vector but no real linearity or > "signposts". It is little wonder that toakmaks and such are > difficult to control; and the same will likely be true with > gravity control. > Only when I crack up, Jones :-) Fred From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 08:28:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2VGRspK020136; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:27:55 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2VGRrqo020114; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:27:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:27:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Sender: jack@mail3.centurytel.net Message-ID: <442D649F.65B40E21@centurytel.net> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 17:19:27 +0000 From: "Taylor J. Smith" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-Caldera (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrogravity, "jerk" and "jounce" References: <011901c6540b$b863cec0$6401a8c0@NuDell> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="xh" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="xh" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67324 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones Beene on 3-30-06 wrote: In the recent paper alluded to in a number of threads, Tajmar and de Matos reported a gravitational (mass loss) effect when spinning a superconducting ring "up to" 6500 rpm. Fourteen years earlier, Podkletnov claimed a larger gravitational effect when spinning a superconducting disk at a constant 5000 rpm. Podkletnov wasn't reproduced at first, and he gets fired from his university job, and is largely ignored even today. Sound familiar? T&M do mention Podkletnov in their paper. They admit that their effect is smaller than previously claimed by him, but the main distinction (generally ignored by many pundits) is that Podkletnov used an "unaccelerated" (constant velocity) superconducting disk, whereas the effect produced by T&M occurs *only* during acceleration. To me the obvious turning-point for proceeding further towards usable anti-gravity is to answer the question - what happens when the small effect of T&M is 'squared' or taken to even higher power ? i.e. when there is (acceleration of acceleration)^2 ? On Vortex, we have been accustomed to calling this first higher order acceleration "jerk." But then again, we share the respect in physics that the Jamaican Bobsled Team gets in sports. How [is acceleration of acceleration accomplished?] In practice, one does not want to be forced to keep accelerating and decelerating the disk over-and-over - so two axis spin is the solution to provide (virtual) acceleration to a constant spin - but this is not enough. 3-axes of spin is probably sufficient to give a significant but still-too-small effect (surely 3-axes of spin could maximize the Aspden effect, at least). If the Aspden effect is indeed a polarization of space on one axis, then even two axes will polarize the enclosed 3-space - what more is to be gained by a third axis of spin ? ... is it anti-gravity ... ? No. I think the point about 'jerk' being an exponential increase could be moving towards the key that pushes such a device incorporating 3-axes spin into a realm where - if everything else is extremely efficient (in terms of converting energy into angular momentum), then a usable mass anomaly is feasible. But why stop with jerk, if you want to fly-high, mon ? dL/dT ......VELOCITY d2L/dT2 ....ACCELERATION d3L/dt3 ....JERK d4L/dT4 ....JOUNCE This requires in effect four axes of spin --------------------- Hi All, Here's some info from the past: Jack Smith --------------------- Hamdi Ucar (hamdix@verisoft.com.tr) on 17 Oct 1998 wrote: Some notes may help to explore spinning-magnetic disks anomalies: If you recall the Podklednov's experiment, the effect is maximized when the disk wobbled at certain frequency while it slowed slowly. Because the unstable state, this rotation frequency could not be sustained. Also the wobble is assumed to the unbalance on the disk. I had pointed on this, the possibility that the wobble was not caused by the unbalance and even was caused by mechanical reasons, may have important role on the so-called gravity shielding effect. >From my experimentation experience, I feel the second harmonic on oscillations have great importance, maybe help to break the symmetry between interactions, and allow weird things happens. Rick Monteverde wrote: Wouldn't that just be typical? - Where the effect is caused not by the highly unusual nature of the special fancy components in the experiment, but by the unwanted and rather mundane 'error' in the setup? So everyone else (like NASA) does an excellent job of balancing, and they get nothing. Ron Kita (Antigravitics_R_US) wrote: There was a patent issued to Roy McAllister in the 1970 s ...actually a space drive that used air to unbalance a very high speed rotor. The motor was a high speed vacuum cleaner motor. Will try to find patent number. Note: The device can use captive RECYCLED air... the effect is NOT aerodynamic! Alexander wrote: Probably, E.E. Podkletnov had an antigravitation because of bad quality of manufacturing of the superconducting disk. And the American scientists have made the disk too high qualities.? Fred wrote: The same thing might also be true in many cold fusion experiments.. Jack Smith wrote: I am interested in factors that affect G, the universal constant of gravitation. Kozyrev's work seems to bear on this question, and I would appreciate discussion of this. NTC COM-Center wrote: In the 50's, in order to verify his theory, N.A.Kozyrev conducted a series of experiments with gyroscopes. He found that the weight of a spinning gyroscope depends upon its angular velocity and direction of rotation. ... Note that N.A.Kozyrev emphasized that spinning gyroscope should be subjected to the special vibrations in order to observe its weight variations. In the absence of vibrations the weight of a spinning gyroscope would not change. Thus to achieve the weight variation the rotation should be nonstationary. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 08:28:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2VGS7TB020236; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:28:07 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2VGS5CM020213; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:28:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:28:05 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=t5d2qFvVKtNhF8/st+fCNwN8w4lpl+NTutgivld40VODt+bUiOTSxiHo/z3k51so; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006353116284970@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Pulse Delay Line & Charge Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 09:28:04 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940f70fb91e337f19ad75420e73ca6aee67350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.212 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67325 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks Jones. I won't say how many, but it was a few days after FDR took office. Fred > [Original Message] > From: Jones Beene > To: vortex-l > Date: 3/31/2006 9:13:41 AM > Subject: Re: Pulse Delay Line & Charge > > Happy Birthday! > > I won't ask how many... > > ...but as close to Roswell as you are (and no doubt you have been > down there a few times) I don't think any of those saucers could > have been as large as you suggest ;-) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Frederick Sparber > > > If two superconducting loops with radius r (meters) were spaced > > at a distance > > D (meters) where Capacitance C = .1.0e-12/ [3.2572 x ln D/r] > > Farad/meter, > > and inductance L = 1.0e-7 x 4.6229 x ln D/r Henry/meter ending > > up with > > an impedance (L/C)^1/2 of 377 ohms were tweaked with a battery > > pulse, they > > should oscillate indefinitly at a frequency of 300 MHz/meter of > > circumference. > > If you can get 10 Kw of energy in a loop about 314 meters in > circumference > 300 MHz/314 Meters = 955 KHz, and the direction-pulse "polarity" > is right > you should be able to go weightless without spinning a humongous > magnet-flywheel at the destructive rpms that Jones and Terry are > contemplating. > > If it don't flip over and crash. > > > Fred Manic from too much Birthday cake. :-) > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 08:58:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2VGwV5c001704; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:58:32 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2VGwTHD001677; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:58:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:58:29 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <007401c654e4$54066620$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <011901c6540b$b863cec0$6401a8c0@NuDell> <442D649F.65B40E21@centurytel.net> Subject: Re: Electrogravity, "jerk" and "jounce" Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:58:25 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67326 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jack, Thanks for the old posts. You must have a good filing system. What these old posts could be telling us ... (at least one of us) is that the "wobble" i.e. the extra motion caused by the imprecision of balance, is providing the aforementioned "jerk". Which is all the more reason to proceed with precision, and acutually eliminate the wobble (as opposed to trying to reproduce it), but add something even better - another (in fact several) axis of rotation. The effect is functionally identical (better even), but the best part is there is reproducibility (if successful). AS to how do you keep a HTSC cold when it is spinning on not one, but three or four, axial points of rotation? If cost were no object you could pump supercold He through the bearing themselves, in one axial bearing and then out the other - but that makes a vacuum hard to maintain. I have a better solution for that problem. Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 09:08:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2VH8YOP006321; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 09:08:35 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2VH8XV6006305; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 09:08:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 09:08:33 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Cunl1KVI7PugvJ0822N27pizY7b4UMNTzgOk02ePegK6ZQK2nbUMpHR7E5QXkNbY; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006353117816683@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrogravity, "jerk" and "jounce" Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:08:16 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9403ef0c075688b556fe4f12b9b20d30e75350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.122 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67327 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Or, the "jerk" is coming from a momentary coupling-precession of the electrons (or protons) with the earth's gravity field. Fred > [Original Message] > From: Jones Beene > To: > Date: 3/31/2006 9:58:57 AM > Subject: Re: Electrogravity, "jerk" and "jounce" > > Jack, > > Thanks for the old posts. You must have a good filing system. > > What these old posts could be telling us ... (at least one of us) > is that the "wobble" i.e. the extra motion caused by the > imprecision of balance, is providing the aforementioned "jerk". > > Which is all the more reason to proceed with precision, and > acutually eliminate the wobble (as opposed to trying to reproduce > it), but add something even better - another (in fact several) > axis of rotation. The effect is functionally identical (better > even), but the best part is there is reproducibility (if > successful). > > AS to how do you keep a HTSC cold when it is spinning on not one, > but three or four, axial points of rotation? > > If cost were no object you could pump supercold He through the > bearing themselves, in one axial bearing and then out the other - > but that makes a vacuum hard to maintain. I have a better solution > for that problem. > > Jones > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 10:24:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2VIOPDm004043; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:24:26 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2VIOKQS004005; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:24:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:24:20 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: ThomasClark123@aol.com Message-ID: <343.122d6f3.315ecdca@aol.com> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:24:10 EST Subject: Re: BP To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: ThomasClark123@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1143829450" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <3LcfMD.A.a-.SPXLEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67328 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1143829450 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/26/2006 10:10:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, steven@newenergytimes.com writes: Anybody ever think about British Petroleum's name change to BP? Hmm ... s The symbol of the green and yellow, sun like lotus flower that British Petroleum uses as its emblem, is the symbol of the Keebler like Elves in the inner Earth. My guess is that the Elves run BP. I saw a comic book that also showed that the Elves run and control the European Union and the United Nations. -------------------------------1143829450 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    In a message dated 3/26/2006 10:10:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, steven@= newenergytimes.com writes:
    Anybody ever think about British Petroleum's n= ame change to BP?

    Hmm ...


    s
    The symbol of the green and yellow, sun like lotus flower that Bri= tish Petroleum uses as its emblem, is the symbol of the Keebler like Elves i= n the inner Earth.  My guess is that the Elves run BP.  I saw a co= mic book that also showed that the Elves run and control the European Union=20= and the United Nations.
    -------------------------------1143829450-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 11:13:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2VJDSpM023474; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:13:28 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2VJDLGg023432; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:13:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:13:21 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: ThomasClark123@aol.com Message-ID: <2ff.20127c9.315ed93a@aol.com> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 14:12:58 EST Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1143832378" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67330 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1143832378 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/25/2006 3:01:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, fjsparber@earthlink.net writes: Interesting equipment these European experimenters use. http://www.vlf.it/ Some puzzling peaks at ~ 12 KHz & ~ 22 KHz http://www.vlf.it/ed/earthprobes.html Very Low Frequency (VLF) 9 KHz to 30 KHz: http://www.jneuhaus.com/fccindex/10_khz.html#10_KHz Thanks for the above links. They were very helpful. Thomas Clark, www.rhfweb.com/personal.html Baron Volsung www.rhfweb.com/baron -------------------------------1143832378 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    In a message dated 3/25/2006 3:01:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, fjsparbe= r@earthlink.net writes:
    Interesting equipment these Europ= ean experimenters use.
     
     
     
    Some puzzling peaks at ~ 12 KHz &= amp; ~ 22 KHz
     
     
     
    Very Low Frequency (VLF) 9 KHz to 30 KHz:
     
    Thanks for the above links. They were very helpful.
     
     
    -------------------------------1143832378-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 11:15:09 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2VJExVv024406; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:15:00 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2VJEwKe024389; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:14:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:14:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 14:14:54 -0500 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C8230E86A08834-1280-1824B@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Gravitomagnetic Moment of the Nucleon Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.136 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <7-n7bB.A.B9F.x-XLEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67331 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have been studying the patents on neodymium magnets lately (thanks, Keith). It reminds me of what Dr. Ning Li told a friend during an interview about her theory. Just as magnetic moment alignment is important before sintering of a NeFeBo, such alignments will effect the gravitomagnetic moment of the spinning xtal lattice ions of YtBaCuO. She also claimed that the layering of such materials was important. When the nucleons are aligned the gravitomagnetic effect is huge. She said it's all in the recipe and the preparation. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 12:00:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2VJxjPq011349; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:59:45 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2VJxhw4011321; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:59:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:59:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=m6Yrk+IXKd9jkSK+DZ9Sd0DNLeBRPoY+ixCgPsU1wpKXpH8zSyJWZ0WNpDGHh6rC; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220063531195935773@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:59:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9403e0008dd496970fba350ea645e23acae350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.120.49 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67332 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII You're welcome. The item I missed in the early 1980s when former astronaut Deke Slayton of Houston-based Space Services Inc., sent a representative up my way for discussing the idea of running a pulse around a coaxial "wire-in-a-tube" device to get a combination 1/R^2 Anti-Gravity and Force Field, was that although the Charge Q = capacitance x pulse voltage V "walking around the loop" charging-discharging the L-C increments, setting up a primary B field that was shielded and would cancel any AG-FF effect , was that the capacitance charge displacement current Id = C*dV/dt sets up a secondary dB/dt field which in turn sets up a Secondary E field that doesn't "see" the "ordinary" Electromagnetic "shielding" Effects and therefore only "sees" the 1/R^2 gravity field properties of matter. IOW, if you can apply enough energy (~ 10 watts/kg) you can achieve weightlessness with it or use it to stop an incoming cannon ball. Provided your inertia is greater than it's momentum. :-) Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 3/31/2006 12:14:05 PM Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields In a message dated 3/25/2006 3:01:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, fjsparber@earthlink.net writes: Interesting equipment these European experimenters use. http://www.vlf.it/ Some puzzling peaks at ~ 12 KHz & ~ 22 KHz http://www.vlf.it/ed/earthprobes.html Very Low Frequency (VLF) 9 KHz to 30 KHz: http://www.jneuhaus.com/fccindex/10_khz.html#10_KHz Thanks for the above links. They were very helpful. Thomas Clark, www.rhfweb.com/personal.html Baron Volsung www.rhfweb.com/baron ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
    You're welcome.
     
    The item I missed in the early 1980s when former astronaut Deke Slayton
    of Houston-based Space Services Inc., sent a representative up my way for
    discussing the idea of running a pulse around a coaxial "wire-in-a-tube" device
    to get a combination  1/R^2 Anti-Gravity and Force Field, was that
    although the Charge Q = capacitance x pulse voltage V  "walking around
    the loop"  charging-discharging the L-C increments, setting up a primary B field that
    was shielded and would cancel any AG-FF effect , was that the capacitance charge displacement current
    Id = C*dV/dt sets up a secondary dB/dt  field which in turn sets up a Secondary 
    E field that doesn't "see" the "ordinary" Electromagnetic "shielding" Effects
    and therefore only "sees" the 1/R^2 gravity field properties of matter.
     
    IOW, if you can apply enough energy (~ 10 watts/kg) you can achieve weightlessness
    with it or use it to stop an incoming cannon ball. 
    Provided your inertia is greater than it's momentum. :-)
     
    Fred
    ----- Original Message -----
    From:
    Sent: 3/31/2006 12:14:05 PM
    Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields

    In a message dated 3/25/2006 3:01:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, fjsparber@earthlink.net writes:
    Interesting equipment these European experimenters use.
     
     
     
    Some puzzling peaks at ~ 12 KHz & ~ 22 KHz
     
     
     
    Very Low Frequency (VLF) 9 KHz to 30 KHz:
     
    Thanks for the above links. They were very helpful.
     
    Baron Volsung www.rhfweb.com/baron
     
    ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 12:52:24 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2VKpir8031586; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:51:45 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2VKpevj031547; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:51:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:51:40 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <01d601c65504$e591b700$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <8C8230E86A08834-1280-1824B@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: Gravitomagnetic Moment of the Nucleon Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:51:33 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67333 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: > When the nucleons are aligned the gravitomagnetic effect is > huge. She said it's all in the recipe and the preparation. Not only that, Terry, but if you will remember, she claimed something to the effect that an HTSC, if it is also a BEC, should have enormous AG effects. Curious, eh? Assuming she is correct, does that get us any closer? Not with YBCO nor any of the copper oxide HTSCs, even if you had pure 24Mg (the real unobtainium?) then, a molecular-boson HTSC cannot be arguably approximated because of the boron, but... For the proper lab... with the proper lure... ... and that may be where Ning Li decide to disappear to. By proper, I mean not just unlimited budget, and access to pure isotopes... and who knows... there is always pure 12C in the form of buckyballs which might fit the bill (does this ring a "Bell") http://www.lucent.com/press/0801/010830.bla.html ¿quien sabe? ... ¡ kimosabe ! ... or maybe that should be ¿¡ Chemo-sabe !? From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 13:38:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2VLcWfd019229; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:38:32 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2VLcU3g019213; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:38:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:38:30 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 16:38:26 -0500 Message-Id: <8C8232293BD142D-EB4-D115@mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <8C8230E86A08834-1280-1824B@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> <01d601c65504$e591b700$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <01d601c65504$e591b700$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Gravitomagnetic Moment of the Nucleon Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.130 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k2VLcT07019188 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67334 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene ... there is always pure 12C in the form of buckyballs which might fit the bill (does this ring a "Bell")    http://www.lucent.com/press/0801/010830.bla.html  <><><><><><><> Unfortunately, this was one of the papers in question:-( http://www.lucent.com/news_events/pdf/papersinquestion.pdf in the Hendrick Schön investigation. Did anyone verify the results? Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 13:51:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2VLpR3i025701; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:51:28 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2VLpPcm025668; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:51:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:51:25 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 16:51:01 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields In-reply-to: <410-220063531195935773@earthlink.net> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_o5BF/rJmrhIPsYpIVal7JA)" User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: <9XA4d.A.-QG.dRaLEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67335 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --Boundary_(ID_o5BF/rJmrhIPsYpIVal7JA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I would like to that argue a thrown ball has momentarily zero weight at the top of its trajectory because g is momentarily zero. This is because I see gravity acceleration as being expressed by matter rather than being an impressed on matter. During the ascent the ball is decelerating (-g) and the during the descent it is accelerating (+g). Harry Frederick Sparber wrote: You're welcome. The item I missed in the early 1980s when former astronaut Deke Slayton of Houston-based Space Services Inc., sent a representative up my way for discussing the idea of running a pulse around a coaxial "wire-in-a-tube" device to get a combination 1/R^2 Anti-Gravity and Force Field, was that although the Charge Q = capacitance x pulse voltage V "walking around the loop" charging-discharging the L-C increments, setting up a primary B field that was shielded and would cancel any AG-FF effect , was that the capacitance charge displacement current Id = C*dV/dt sets up a secondary dB/dt field which in turn sets up a Secondary E field that doesn't "see" the "ordinary" Electromagnetic "shielding" Effects and therefore only "sees" the 1/R^2 gravity field properties of matter. IOW, if you can apply enough energy (~ 10 watts/kg) you can achieve weightlessness with it or use it to stop an incoming cannon ball. Provided your inertia is greater than it's momentum. :-) Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 3/31/2006 12:14:05 PM Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields In a message dated 3/25/2006 3:01:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, fjsparber@earthlink.net writes: Interesting equipment these European experimenters use. http://www.vlf.it/ Some puzzling peaks at ~ 12 KHz & ~ 22 KHz http://www.vlf.it/ed/earthprobes.html Very Low Frequency (VLF) 9 KHz to 30 KHz: http://www.jneuhaus.com/fccindex/10_khz.html#10_KHz Thanks for the above links. They were very helpful. Thomas Clark, www.rhfweb.com/personal.html Baron Volsung www.rhfweb.com/baron --Boundary_(ID_o5BF/rJmrhIPsYpIVal7JA) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields
    I would like to that argue a thrown ball has momentarily zero weight at the top of its
    trajectory because g is momentarily zero. This is because I see gravity
    acceleration as being expressed by matter rather than being an impressed on
    matter. During the ascent the ball is decelerating (-g) and the during the  
    descent it is accelerating (+g).

    Harry



    Frederick Sparber wrote:

    You're welcome.

    The item I missed in the early 1980s when former astronaut Deke Slayton
    of Houston-based Space Services Inc., sent a representative up my way for
    discussing the idea of running a pulse around a coaxial "wire-in-a-tube" device
    to get a combination  1/R^2 Anti-Gravity and Force Field, was that
    although the Charge Q = capacitance x pulse voltage V  "walking around
    the loop"  charging-discharging the L-C increments, setting up a primary B field that
    was shielded and would cancel any AG-FF effect , was that the capacitance charge displacement current
    Id = C*dV/dt sets up a secondary dB/dt  field which in turn sets up a Secondary  
    E field that doesn't "see" the "ordinary" Electromagnetic "shielding" Effects
    and therefore only "sees" the 1/R^2 gravity field properties of matter.

    IOW, if you can apply enough energy (~ 10 watts/kg) you can achieve weightlessness
    with it or use it to stop an incoming cannon ball.  
    Provided your inertia is greater than it's momentum. :-)

    Fred
    ----- Original Message -----
    From:
    To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
    Sent: 3/31/2006 12:14:05 PM
    Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields

    In a message dated 3/25/2006 3:01:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, fjsparber@earthlink.net writes:
    Interesting equipment these European experimenters use.

    http://www.vlf.it/


    Some puzzling peaks at ~ 12 KHz & ~ 22 KHz

    http://www.vlf.it/ed/earthprobes.html


    Very Low Frequency (VLF) 9 KHz to 30 KHz:

    http://www.jneuhaus.com/fccindex/10_khz.html#10_KHz
    Thanks for the above links. They were very helpful.

    Thomas Clark, www.rhfweb.com/personal.html <http://www.rhfweb.com/personal.html>
    Baron Volsung www.rhfweb.com/baron <http://www.rhfweb.com/baron>



    --Boundary_(ID_o5BF/rJmrhIPsYpIVal7JA)-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 15:43:24 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2VNhDiC030665; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:43:13 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k2VNhBI9030655; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:43:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:43:11 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060331184300.07da7f38@mindspring.com> Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060331183931.03e12e38@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 18:43:07 -0500 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Many papers by W.-S. Zhang Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67336 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I uploaded 13 papers by Wu-Shou Zhang, plus a translation that he wrote of a paper by Storms. See: http://lenr-canr.org/FilesByDate.htm These are mainly about loading and materials. Let's give Wu-Shou a round of applause for sending all those papers! Other authors should follow suit. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 16:26:00 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k310PmV7011846; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 16:25:49 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k310Pl7I011831; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 16:25:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 16:25:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=ix.netcom.com; b=fG2ybWKYe9RNnho4UHkQ0Ve0zMbrbVuh679HAq+SzHvRI4mIay9395IVEMtaIQXs; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064610266340@ix.netcom.com> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: aki@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.1.47.0 (Windows) From: "" To: "vortex-l" Subject: FW: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday March 31, 2006 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 16:26:06 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: c4cc7f5f697e8746f66dc3a06d5924d8521ede128b78faef80b3d375be7a9962a2d4e88014a4647c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 216.175.87.51 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67337 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Forward from aki@ix.netcom.com (Akira Kawasaki) > [Original Message] > From: What's New > To: > Date: 3/31/2006 2:06:39 PM Subject: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday March 31, 2006 WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 31 Mar 06 Washington, DC 1. MIRACLE MEDICINE: PRAYERS OF SCIENTISTS HAVE BEEN ANSWERED. The long-awaited study of intercessory prayer for coronary bypass patients was released yesterday (see last week's WN). A small increase in complications, attributed to "performance anxiety," was found in a subset of patients who were told that strangers were praying for them. Otherwise, there was nothing. Scientists are relieved of course; science is tough enough without having to worry that somebody on their knees in East Cupcake, Iowa can override natural law. The study of 1800 patients took almost ten years and cost $2.4M, mostly from the Templeton Foundation. Of course, there are calls for further study. Where do we start? What are the units of prayer? Do prayers of Pat Robertson count more than those of death-row inmates? What is the optimum posture of the supplicant? Where can we learn these things? 2. COLD-FUSION DAY: DOES FLEISCHMANN STILL BREW TEA ON HOT PLATE? On 23 March 2006, D2Fusion, Inc., a subsidiary of Solar Energy, Ltd., issued a press release to announce that cold-fusion pioneer Martin Fleischmann had agreed to serve as "senior scientific advisor" to produce a cold-fusion heater. Seventeen years ago, on 23 March 1989, the University of Utah held a press conference to announce the discovery of "cold fusion" by Martin Fleischmann and Stanley Pons. Fleischmann modestly told the press that cold fusion was so far capable only of 'heating water for a cup of tea." D2Fusion believes "he still holds the secret." 3. CURING OIL ADDICTION: CHECK INTO THE WHITE HOUSE DETOX CENTER. Two months ago in his State of the Union address, President Bush lamented America's "addiction to oil." But on Wednesday, the White House announced that the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standard for SUVs would only be raised 1.5 mpg from the current 22.5 mpg to 24 mpg by 2011. Three years ago when the CAFE standard was raised by the same amount WN called for shortening the length of the mile instead. But things are worse now. WN now suggests we leave the mile alone and tighten up the country a little. Shorten all the nation's roads by 127 feet per mile, which achieves the same savings and cut down on asphalt. 4. ETHANOL ADDICTION: HUMANS HAVE LIVED WITH IT FOR A LONG TIME. The New York Times last Sunday reported that major investors, including Bill Gates and Vinod Khosla, are getting serious about ethanol. Investors have always had ethanol problems when the economy is doing badly, but this is ethanol as fuel, and the plan is to make it from agricultural cellulose waste products, not corn. It would be lot greener than hydrogen and might even work. 5. IVORY-BILLED SKEPTICS: BIRDERS ARE A PASSIONATE BREED. Confirmation by the Cornell Lab of Ornithology that the extinct ivory-billed woodpecker has been rediscovered in Arkansas is being challenged by amateur birders. Stay tuned. THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND. Opinions are the author's and not necessarily shared by the University of Maryland, but they should be. --- Archives of What's New can be found at http://www.bobpark.org What's New is moving to a different listserver and our subscription process has changed. To change your subscription status please visit this link: http://listserv.umd.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=bobparks-whatsnew&A=1 From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 16:27:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k310Qpxc012535; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 16:26:51 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k310QnwV012516; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 16:26:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 16:26:49 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060331162900.02b1cf70@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 16:29:06 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: Re: BP In-Reply-To: <343.122d6f3.315ecdca@aol.com> References: <343.122d6f3.315ecdca@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_898835734==.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67338 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=====================_898835734==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Must be true. At 10:24 AM 3/31/2006, you wrote: >In a message dated 3/26/2006 10:10:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, >steven@newenergytimes.com writes: >Anybody ever think about British Petroleum's name change to BP? > >Hmm ... > > >s > >The symbol of the green and yellow, sun like lotus flower that British >Petroleum uses as its emblem, is the symbol of the Keebler like Elves in >the inner Earth. My guess is that the Elves run BP. I saw a comic book >that also showed that the Elves run and control the European Union and the >United Nations. --=====================_898835734==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Must be true.

    At 10:24 AM 3/31/2006, you wrote:
    In a message dated 3/26/2006 10:10:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, steven@newenergytimes.com writes:
    Anybody ever think about British Petroleum's name change to BP?

    Hmm ...


    s

    The symbol of the green and yellow, sun like lotus flower that British Petroleum uses as its emblem, is the symbol of the Keebler like Elves in the inner Earth.  My guess is that the Elves run BP.  I saw a comic book that also showed that the Elves run and control the European Union and the United Nations.
    --=====================_898835734==.ALT-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 18:47:04 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k312kqe3028400; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 18:46:52 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k312koGl028384; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 18:46:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 18:46:50 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 21:46:42 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Mobius Resistor To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67339 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: FYI http://www.rexresearch.com/davis/davis.htm Time (September 25, 1964) Making Resistors With Math Brief, high-power pulses of electrical energy throbbing through intricate circuitry are the heartbeats of modern radar. But they are the bane of many an electronics engineer. Sometimes the high-frequency currents that are crammed into a pulse swirl through a simple resistance as if it were also a small coil (inductance); sometimes the pulses treat the resistance as if it were a capacitor. Either way, coil or capacitor, those unwanted effects introduce annoying problems. In an effort to reduce such side effects, electronics experts have resorted to all sorts of tricks. But in most cases the best they could do was to follow advice as old as Scottish physicist Maxwell, the father of electrical theory, who died in 1879. It was Maxwell who pointed out that resistors can be bent into hairpin turns so that their current flowed in two directions, canceling out capacitance or inductance. Later, physicist Georges Chaperon wound resistances into intertwined coils with the same result. Wandering Mind ~ Those solutions work well, but not quite well enough for today's high-power equipment. At Sandia Corp. in Albuquerque, physicist Richard L. Davis was busy trying to devise improvements. One day he let his mind wander and remembered an old mathematical parlor trick, the Moebius loop (named for German mathematician August Moebius, 1790-1868). Math suddenly merged with electronics, and Davis had what he was searching for: the design of a noninductive Mobius Resistor. A Mobius loop can be made by cutting a narrow strip of paper and gluing its ends together after giving the strip a half-turn. The loop that results has peculiar qualities. Most important, though the paper it is made of has two sides, the loop itself has only one surface. This can be proved by drawing a pencil line down the middle of the strip. The pencil line covers both sides of the paper and returns to the starting point without the strip's being turned over. When cut along the pencil line, the paper forms not two loops but one long, narrow loop. Cut once more in the same manner, the narrow loop becomes two interlocked loops. Double Passage ~ Davis made a Mobius loop out of a strip of nonconducting plastic that had metal foil bonded to both sides to serve as an electrical resistance. He attached wired to the foil on opposite sides of the strip. When he sent electrical pulses through these wires, the current divided, flowed in both directions through the foil, and passed itself twice. Because of the double passage, the inductance was as low as Davis had hoped. He is delighted but still puzzled. The pulses apparently pas right through themselves, and he cannot be sure how or why his device works. "Maybe Maxwell could tell us", he says, "but he's dead." From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Mar 31 22:57:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k316vK8d005580; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 22:57:20 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k316vJaP005567; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 22:57:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 22:57:19 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 01:56:53 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields In-reply-to: <410-220063531195935773@earthlink.net> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_fyxZmlkRr82qzAwSu7VKyQ)" User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67340 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --Boundary_(ID_fyxZmlkRr82qzAwSu7VKyQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT oops I sent a garbled post. This is clearer.... I would like to argue that a thrown ball has momentarily zero weight at the top of its trajectory because g is momentarily zero. This is because I see gravitational acceleration as being _expressed_ by matter rather than being _impressed_ on matter. During the ascent the ball is decelerating (-g) and the during the descent it is accelerating (+g). Harry Frederick Sparber wrote: You're welcome. The item I missed in the early 1980s when former astronaut Deke Slayton of Houston-based Space Services Inc., sent a representative up my way for discussing the idea of running a pulse around a coaxial "wire-in-a-tube" device to get a combination 1/R^2 Anti-Gravity and Force Field, was that although the Charge Q = capacitance x pulse voltage V "walking around the loop" charging-discharging the L-C increments, setting up a primary B field that was shielded and would cancel any AG-FF effect , was that the capacitance charge displacement current Id = C*dV/dt sets up a secondary dB/dt field which in turn sets up a Secondary E field that doesn't "see" the "ordinary" Electromagnetic "shielding" Effects and therefore only "sees" the 1/R^2 gravity field properties of matter. IOW, if you can apply enough energy (~ 10 watts/kg) you can achieve weightlessness with it or use it to stop an incoming cannon ball. Provided your inertia is greater than it's momentum. :-) Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 3/31/2006 12:14:05 PM Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields In a message dated 3/25/2006 3:01:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, fjsparber@earthlink.net writes: Interesting equipment these European experimenters use. http://www.vlf.it/ Some puzzling peaks at ~ 12 KHz & ~ 22 KHz http://www.vlf.it/ed/earthprobes.html Very Low Frequency (VLF) 9 KHz to 30 KHz: http://www.jneuhaus.com/fccindex/10_khz.html#10_KHz Thanks for the above links. They were very helpful. Thomas Clark, www.rhfweb.com/personal.html Baron Volsung www.rhfweb.com/baron --Boundary_(ID_fyxZmlkRr82qzAwSu7VKyQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields
    oops I sent a garbled post.
    This is clearer....

    I would like to argue that a thrown ball has momentarily zero weight at the top of its
    trajectory because g is momentarily zero. This is because I see gravitational
    acceleration as being _expressed_ by matter rather than being _impressed_ on
    matter. During the ascent the ball is decelerating (-g) and the during the  
    descent it is accelerating (+g).

    Harry




    Frederick Sparber wrote:

    You're welcome.

    The item I missed in the early 1980s when former astronaut Deke Slayton
    of Houston-based Space Services Inc., sent a representative up my way for
    discussing the idea of running a pulse around a coaxial "wire-in-a-tube" device
    to get a combination  1/R^2 Anti-Gravity and Force Field, was that
    although the Charge Q = capacitance x pulse voltage V  "walking around
    the loop"  charging-discharging the L-C increments, setting up a primary B field that
    was shielded and would cancel any AG-FF effect , was that the capacitance charge displacement current
    Id = C*dV/dt sets up a secondary dB/dt  field which in turn sets up a Secondary  
    E field that doesn't "see" the "ordinary" Electromagnetic "shielding" Effects
    and therefore only "sees" the 1/R^2 gravity field properties of matter.

    IOW, if you can apply enough energy (~ 10 watts/kg) you can achieve weightlessness
    with it or use it to stop an incoming cannon ball.  
    Provided your inertia is greater than it's momentum. :-)

    Fred
    ----- Original Message -----
    From:
    To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
    Sent: 3/31/2006 12:14:05 PM
    Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields

    In a message dated 3/25/2006 3:01:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, fjsparber@earthlink.net writes:
    Interesting equipment these European experimenters use.

    http://www.vlf.it/


    Some puzzling peaks at ~ 12 KHz & ~ 22 KHz

    http://www.vlf.it/ed/earthprobes.html


    Very Low Frequency (VLF) 9 KHz to 30 KHz:

    http://www.jneuhaus.com/fccindex/10_khz.html#10_KHz
    Thanks for the above links. They were very helpful.

    Thomas Clark, www.rhfweb.com/personal.html <http://www.rhfweb.com/personal.html>
    Baron Volsung www.rhfweb.com/baron <http://www.rhfweb.com/baron>



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