From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 06:49:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k31En9i8015671; Sat, 1 Apr 2006 06:49:10 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k31En7Gw015646; Sat, 1 Apr 2006 06:49:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 06:49:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=S76MRDh74Smy/CUUOiniSgKWJfXq7xJsRHs/xoEwsALEqcQv3Tg7kT3cSU+g2GTT; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200646114490986@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 07:49:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9401b68d4d3c2054fa22c82598c4b1e7f55350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.137 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67341 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Posted earlier. > > The item I missed in the early 1980s when former astronaut Deke Slayton > of Houston-based Space Services Inc., sent a representative up my way for > discussing the idea of running a pulse around a coaxial "wire-in-a-tube" device > to get a combination 1/R^2 Anti-Gravity and Force Field, was that > although the Charge Q = capacitance x pulse voltage V "walking around > the loop" charging-discharging the L-C increments, setting up a primary B field that > was shielded and would cancel any AG-FF effect , was that the capacitance charge displacement > current Id = C*dV/dt sets up a secondary dB/dt field which in turn sets up a Secondary > E field that doesn't "see" the "ordinary" Electromagnetic "shielding" Effects > and therefore only "sees" the 1/R^2 gravity field properties of matter. > I think a section of 75 ohm coax from RadioShack could be left open-ended and a pulse train applied in a manner that the reflected pulses would appear between the input pulses like so: r r r |_|_|_|_|_|_ Or, if the coax is terminated with a 75 ohm resistor (a light bulb or gas discharge tube) the line will be non-reflective, but the input pulse needs to be twice the amplitude. Terry will tell you that the gas discharge color is similar to strange light change (usually three lights for craft attitude change) is what he thinks he witnessed. :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Posted earlier.
>
> The item I missed in the early 1980s when former astronaut Deke Slayton
> of Houston-based Space Services Inc., sent a representative up my way for
> discussing the idea of running a pulse around a coaxial "wire-in-a-tube" device
> to get a combination  1/R^2 Anti-Gravity and Force Field, was that
> although the Charge Q = capacitance x pulse voltage V  "walking around
> the loop"  charging-discharging the L-C increments, setting up a primary B field that
> was shielded and would cancel any AG-FF effect , was that the capacitance charge displacement > current Id = C*dV/dt sets up a secondary dB/dt  field which in turn sets up a Secondary  
> E field that doesn't "see" the "ordinary" Electromagnetic "shielding" Effects
> and therefore only "sees" the 1/R^2 gravity field properties of matter.
>
I think a section of 75 ohm coax from RadioShack could be left open-ended and
a pulse train applied in a manner that the reflected pulses would appear between the
input pulses like so:
  r     r    r
|_|_|_|_|_|_  
 
Or, if the coax is terminated with a 75 ohm resistor (a light bulb or gas discharge tube)
the line will be non-reflective, but the input pulse needs to be twice the amplitude.
 
Terry will tell you that the gas discharge color is similar to strange light
change (usually three lights for craft attitude change) is what he thinks he witnessed.   :-)
 
Fred
 
 
 

 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 07:39:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k31FdjRs000522; Sat, 1 Apr 2006 07:39:45 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k31FdhT4000499; Sat, 1 Apr 2006 07:39:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 07:39:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 10:39:37 -0500 Message-Id: <8C823B99E5F9156-2F10-3085@mblkn-m07.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <410-2200646114490986@earthlink.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <410-2200646114490986@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.71 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k31FdeKk000463 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67342 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Frederick Sparber Terry will tell you that the gas discharge color is similar to strange light change (usually three lights for craft attitude change) is what he thinks he witnessed.   :-) <><><><><><><> While having taken sighting testimonies and having read many, I personally have had only a single sighting. I was outside cleaning the pool when I noticed a single engine plane circling at about 1500 feet. It looked like they were circling my house. But since I was clothed at this particular time, I doubted I was the cause of the plane's curiosity. Then I noticed an object at the center of the plane's orbit. It was difficult to tell, but I would guess the object (or objects) was much higher than the plane and the smallest seemed to be several meters in diameter (no way to tell for sure). It was quite bizarre, a number of different sized spheres, white in color (no glow) that were joined in a cross shape with the right arm short and the bottom leg longest. As I remember there was a center sphere with two attached to the right, four below, three to the left, and three above. Absolutely stationary although there was a good breeze on the surface. I ran in to get my binoculars and camera with telephoto. The binoculars confirmed what I saw; so, I began assembling the camera/lens and moved to a position where I could steady the camera, and the bloody thing had gone. Poof! The plane made one or two more orbits and also split. No saucer, just white orbs. Anyway, other sightings do confirm the flourescent glow you describe. The color changes depending on whether the object is slowing, stationary, or accelerating -- red/pink, white/blue, blue/violet; respectively. I'm sure Mach could explain that. ;-) Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 08:16:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k31GGjOW012183; Sat, 1 Apr 2006 08:16:46 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k31GGi63012172; Sat, 1 Apr 2006 08:16:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 08:16:44 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <023f01c655a7$a7bb09b0$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Subject: A Fool's Paradise is ... Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 08:16:37 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: <6K-XAB.A.I-C.sdqLEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67343 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A After getting a Sat.morning ROTL ride from reading the compendium of April 1 stories on Sterling Allan's site: http://freeenergynews.com/ The thought occurred - why not dream up the wildest but seemingly-sane story which will pass the muster of the majority of Vos... and then sit back and see who bites... oblivious to the timing. Every year there are a few... Ha! To my surprise and amazement, I came up with the following line of scientific reasoning - which managed to fool even the moi, the auteur and master-court-jester hissef. It is based on the final and long awaited discovery of WHY Cold Fusion really works. Yes, the final solution is now upon us on this special day. Of course, the original "discovery" of this was to be totally fabricated. The executive summary was to be this: cold fusion is really nothing more than low probability QM tunneling, which is real - and absolutely proven to occur about 10 trillion times slower than the best CF experiments demonstrate... ta da... However, the secret of CF is nothing less than "time reversal" in that the long delay is partially mitigated by what is, in effect, a reversal of time in the matrix interstices of an active material. OK, this is bizarre yet kinda believable, no? Purrfect for reeling in the poisson-du-jour. OK, as I started to write this up as a fake news release, wow, I stumbled upon a number of sites which make the idea seem somewhat more plausible. Actually a LOT more plausible. More like ' whoa - is this serendipity in action, or what? I had no idea that serious scientists were finding time reversal in phononic crystals. Here are a few papers but there are more, and you've got to read some of the articles to appreciate this. http://www.loa.espci.fr/fr/publista.html This could be real, folks... forget about the date ... and given that the phonon dispersal of the 24 MeV energy from the reaction of D+D --> 4He is already generally assumed to be one key ingredient in one kind of LENR - the realization has finally dawned on me like a ton of palladium-hydride - hey - this could definitely be what is going on in LENR: Time reversal. Well, hold on... you may not have heard the end of this fool's journey yet. Signed, Harry Tuttle Quanthomme Mec and bon vivant extraordinaire "Dis-toi, je l'ordonne à ton fantôme familier..." Actually the tradition of what we now call "April fools" started in France In 1564 when the Church forced the peasants to adopt a reformed calendar. However, many either refused to accept the new date, or did not learn about it, and continued to celebrate New Year's Day, as was traditional = April 1. In the French fashion, they would make fun of these traditionalists, sending them on carefully concocted "fool's errands" or trying to trick them into believing something false. The French came to call this day "Poisson d'Avril," or "April Fish." The English change it a bit but nowadays, in the tradition of Franco-English rivalry - they prefer to channel "fish", shall we say, or if not go for a trans-Atlantic catch... It's all a twisted subset of the only French Law you need to know: Loi de l'Emmerdement Maximum From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 09:34:31 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k31HYKhZ007400; Sat, 1 Apr 2006 09:34:21 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k31HYI9t007377; Sat, 1 Apr 2006 09:34:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 09:34:18 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=WwsjuShokObs2IuRwA8TaAVqx1JLHNHa7QwfEbqxG4Xq+mWkl8FohIlTAECOMED9; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200646117349951@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:34:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940c69a005036622151aac65c054b6c89f6350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67344 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Terry wrote. > > Anyway, other sightings do confirm the fluorescent glow you describe. > The color changes depending on whether the object is slowing, > stationary, or accelerating -- red/pink, white/blue, blue/violet; > respectively. I'm sure Mach could explain that. ;-) Not too hard to explain. The more lift/acceleration of the craft the higher the pulse rep rate (PRF) and/or amplitude, the brighter the gas discharge termination impedance on the coax pulse line .|_|_|_|_|_|_ Interesting sighting. Thanks. Fred > >Terry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 10:33:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k31IXfFu001564; Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:33:46 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k31IXdfN001550; Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:33:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:33:39 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=pCSRaE13qk+2ppbK+JTSUhNlJ9+8VXLXJNEGc9eWzAHdlh62H2LfB0+FvxzygXS7; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006461183330445@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 11:33:30 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940aeacf013ae893b3e44d80dbb54029abc350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.223 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67345 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII The hidden Hypocharge (*Q) in this, sheds some light on how mechanical work is derived from running pulses down a coax and burning it up in a discharge impedance: > > running a pulse around a coaxial "wire-in-a-tube" device > to get a combination 1/R^2 Anti-Gravity and Force Field, was that > although the Charge Q = capacitance x pulse voltage V "walking around > the loop" charging-discharging the L-C increments, setting up a primary B field that > was shielded and would cancel any AG-FF effect , was that the capacitance charge displacement > current Id = C*dV/dt sets up a secondary dB/dt field which in turn sets up a Secondary > E field that doesn't "see" the "ordinary" Electromagnetic "shielding" Effects > and therefore only "sees" the 1/R^2 gravity field properties of matter. > > If the coax is terminated with a 75 ohm resistor (a light bulb or gas discharge tube) > the line will be non-reflective, but the input pulse needs to be twice the amplitude. > > The "E Field" or (*q ) = 1.6e-19/gamma = 4.78e-38 coulomb, literally develops a net charge (*Q ) on the craft that repels the approximately 13 coulomb (*Q' ) Gravitational Hypocharge at the earth's surface. F = 9e9 x Q x Q'/R^2 Newtons This is analgous to work done in electrical devices by manipulating charge. There is No Free Lunch. Sorry Jones. :-) The 10KW/tonne to just hover (same as a Helicopter or Harrier fighter) at the earth's surface, plus the 1/2 mv^2 = 500 watts/tonne x v^2 kinetic energy to impart velocity to the craft shows up as the heat energy rejected by the gas discharge radiators from the PRF and amplitude of the charge-generating pulses moving down the coax line generating the Hypocharge. An on-board gyro will suffice for lateral maneuvering. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
The hidden Hypocharge (*Q) in this, sheds some light on how
mechanical work is derived from running pulses down a coax and
burning it up in a discharge impedance:
>
> running a pulse around a coaxial "wire-in-a-tube" device
> to get a combination  1/R^2 Anti-Gravity and Force Field, was that
> although the Charge Q = capacitance x pulse voltage V  "walking around
> the loop"  charging-discharging the L-C increments, setting up a primary B field that
> was shielded and would cancel any AG-FF effect , was that the capacitance charge displacement
> current Id = C*dV/dt sets up a secondary dB/dt  field which in turn sets up a Secondary  
> E field that doesn't "see" the "ordinary" Electromagnetic "shielding" Effects
> and therefore only "sees" the 1/R^2 gravity field properties of matter.
>
> If the coax is terminated with a 75 ohm resistor (a light bulb or gas discharge tube)
> the line will be non-reflective, but the input pulse needs to be twice the amplitude.
>
>
The "E Field" or (*q ) = 1.6e-19/gamma = 4.78e-38 coulomb, literally develops a net charge
(*Q ) on the craft that repels the approximately 13 coulomb (*Q' ) Gravitational Hypocharge at
the earth's surface.
 
F = 9e9 x Q x Q'/R^2   Newtons
 
This is analgous to work done in electrical devices by manipulating charge.
 
There is No Free Lunch. Sorry Jones.  :-)
 
The 10KW/tonne to just hover (same as a Helicopter or Harrier fighter) at the earth's surface,
plus the 1/2 mv^2  = 500 watts/tonne x v^2 kinetic energy to impart velocity to the craft shows up
as the heat energy rejected by the gas discharge radiators from the PRF and amplitude of
the charge-generating pulses moving down the coax line generating the Hypocharge.
 
An on-board gyro will suffice for lateral maneuvering.
 
Fred
 
 
 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 11:48:31 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k31JmNtG031484; Sat, 1 Apr 2006 11:48:23 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k31JmL0d031473; Sat, 1 Apr 2006 11:48:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 11:48:21 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=ITy0s90o+ywzYxYG0sQXmR7oka0iTgmRTKfsPklZyEcxCHyjSP9lV7N1YCxTyCiK; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006461193935316@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 12:39:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94082ddbba993d886ed14223e744e91d4bd350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.120.212 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67346 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Oops. Make that 20KW input per tonne lift and 10KW/tonne for kinetic energy since the voltage across the impedance of the coax line is 1/2 the input pulse voltage and the other 1/2 is across the gas discharge heat energy dissipating "radiator" for a theoretical maximum mechanical efficiency. Also note that the maximum PRF is limited by the "speed limit" of the coax line: Line impedance Zo = (L/C)^1/2 and Time T =(LC)^1/2. "The 10KW/tonne to just hover (same as a Helicopter or Harrier fighter) at the earth's surface, plus the 1/2 mv^2 = 500 watts/tonne x v^2 kinetic energy to impart velocity to the craft shows up as the heat energy rejected by the gas discharge radiators from the PRF and amplitude of the charge-generating pulses moving down the coax line generating the Hypocharge." ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/1/2006 11:34:15 AM Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields The hidden Hypocharge (*Q) in this, sheds some light on how mechanical work is derived from running pulses down a coax and burning it up in a discharge impedance: > > running a pulse around a coaxial "wire-in-a-tube" device > to get a combination 1/R^2 Anti-Gravity and Force Field, was that > although the Charge Q = capacitance x pulse voltage V "walking around > the loop" charging-discharging the L-C increments, setting up a primary B field that > was shielded and would cancel any AG-FF effect , was that the capacitance charge displacement > current Id = C*dV/dt sets up a secondary dB/dt field which in turn sets up a Secondary > E field that doesn't "see" the "ordinary" Electromagnetic "shielding" Effects > and therefore only "sees" the 1/R^2 gravity field properties of matter. > > If the coax is terminated with a 75 ohm resistor (a light bulb or gas discharge tube) > the line will be non-reflective, but the input pulse needs to be twice the amplitude. > > The "E Field" or (*q ) = 1.6e-19/gamma = 4.78e-38 coulomb, literally develops a net charge (*Q ) on the craft that repels the approximately 13 coulomb (*Q' ) Gravitational Hypocharge at the earth's surface. F = 9e9 x Q x Q'/R^2 Newtons This is analgous to work done in electrical devices by manipulating charge. There is No Free Lunch. Sorry Jones. :-) The 10KW/tonne to just hover (same as a Helicopter or Harrier fighter) at the earth's surface, plus the 1/2 mv^2 = 500 watts/tonne x v^2 kinetic energy to impart velocity to the craft shows up as the heat energy rejected by the gas discharge radiators from the PRF and amplitude of the charge-generating pulses moving down the coax line generating the Hypocharge. An on-board gyro will suffice for lateral maneuvering. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Oops.
 
Make that 20KW input per tonne lift and 10KW/tonne for kinetic energy
since the voltage across the impedance of the coax line is 1/2 the input pulse voltage
and the other 1/2 is across the gas discharge heat energy dissipating "radiator"
for a theoretical maximum mechanical  efficiency.
Also  note that the maximum PRF is limited by the "speed limit" of the coax line:
 
Line impedance Zo = (L/C)^1/2   and Time T =(LC)^1/2.
 
 
"The 10KW/tonne to just hover (same as a Helicopter or Harrier fighter) at the earth's surface,
plus the 1/2 mv^2  = 500 watts/tonne x v^2 kinetic energy to impart velocity to the craft shows up
as the heat energy rejected by the gas discharge radiators from the PRF and amplitude of
the charge-generating pulses moving down the coax line generating the Hypocharge."
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/1/2006 11:34:15 AM
Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields

The hidden Hypocharge (*Q) in this, sheds some light on how
mechanical work is derived from running pulses down a coax and
burning it up in a discharge impedance:
>
> running a pulse around a coaxial "wire-in-a-tube" device
> to get a combination  1/R^2 Anti-Gravity and Force Field, was that
> although the Charge Q = capacitance x pulse voltage V  "walking around
> the loop"  charging-discharging the L-C increments, setting up a primary B field that
> was shielded and would cancel any AG-FF effect , was that the capacitance charge displacement
> current Id = C*dV/dt sets up a secondary dB/dt  field which in turn sets up a Secondary  
> E field that doesn't "see" the "ordinary" Electromagnetic "shielding" Effects
> and therefore only "sees" the 1/R^2 gravity field properties of matter.
>
> If the coax is terminated with a 75 ohm resistor (a light bulb or gas discharge tube)
> the line will be non-reflective, but the input pulse needs to be twice the amplitude.
>
>
The "E Field" or (*q ) = 1.6e-19/gamma = 4.78e-38 coulomb, literally develops a net charge
(*Q ) on the craft that repels the approximately 13 coulomb (*Q' ) Gravitational Hypocharge at
the earth's surface.
 
F = 9e9 x Q x Q'/R^2   Newtons
 
This is analgous to work done in electrical devices by manipulating charge.
 
There is No Free Lunch. Sorry Jones.  :-)
 
The 10KW/tonne to just hover (same as a Helicopter or Harrier fighter) at the earth's surface,
plus the 1/2 mv^2  = 500 watts/tonne x v^2 kinetic energy to impart velocity to the craft shows up
as the heat energy rejected by the gas discharge radiators from the PRF and amplitude of
the charge-generating pulses moving down the coax line generating the Hypocharge.
 
An on-board gyro will suffice for lateral maneuvering.
 
Fred
 
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 12:08:04 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k31K7nUb007754; Sat, 1 Apr 2006 12:07:51 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k31K7lAt007729; Sat, 1 Apr 2006 12:07:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 12:07:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 15:07:43 -0500 Message-Id: <8C823DF124F28DF-22AC-B860@mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <410-2200646117349951@earthlink.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <410-2200646117349951@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.138 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67347 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Frederick Sparber Interesting sighting. Thanks. <><><><><><><> Geeze, I didn't even realize the date until Jones' post. It's not an April Fish, folks. I really experienced it. Odd thing is, this is the first time I have posted it on the internet anywhere. Pretty negligent for a former MUFONer. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 23:22:14 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k327M2aO011889; Sat, 1 Apr 2006 23:22:02 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k327LxZa011854; Sat, 1 Apr 2006 23:21:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 23:21:59 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Gold nano particles = resonant hydrino catalyst? Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 17:21:55 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.2/32.830 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta02ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sun, 2 Apr 2006 07:21:55 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k327LudK011823 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67348 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi, These are about the right size to resonate with ground state hydrogen, which would release hydrino heat. http://www.physorg.com/news63003999.html Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 1 23:35:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k327ZUIb015681; Sat, 1 Apr 2006 23:35:31 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k327ZTdc015664; Sat, 1 Apr 2006 23:35:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 23:35:29 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <442F7E94.5050604@usfamily.net> Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 01:34:44 -0600 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Flieshman's paper Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67349 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Vortecians; Someone mentioned Martin Flieshman's paper in which he uses the word ignition, does anyone have a URL for it? --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 2 00:18:01 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k328HngR028841; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 00:17:49 -0800 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k328HmnS028823; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 00:17:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 00:17:48 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: BP Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 18:17:38 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <343.122d6f3.315ecdca@aol.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20060331162900.02b1cf70@mail.newenergytimes.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20060331162900.02b1cf70@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta03sl.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sun, 2 Apr 2006 08:17:39 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k328Hdma028765 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67350 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Steven Krivit's message of Fri, 31 Mar 2006 16:29:06 -0800: Hi, [snip] >>The symbol of the green and yellow, sun like lotus flower that British >>Petroleum uses as its emblem, is the symbol of the Keebler like Elves in >>the inner Earth. My guess is that the Elves run BP. I saw a comic book >>that also showed that the Elves run and control the European Union and the >>United Nations. I think the gnomes of Zurich is a bit more likely. ;) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 2 04:23:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k32BMxC0020005; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 04:22:59 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k32BKHn1017922; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 04:20:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 04:20:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=QdkMlpy6wl7yUv3HJCjJF5CJ9vKB8B4pMzxokxslTBVO5WGs2eojxbpOWEdaMYoP; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006402111959464@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 05:19:59 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940232f9317d21dc07c2ed12a8d6675ec47350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.105 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67351 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII FWIW. 75 ohm coax runs about 65 picofarad/ meter and 0.43 microhenry/meter with a 0.66 c propagation velocity (~5.0 nanosecond/meter). > > The voltage across the impedance of the coax line is 1/2 the input pulse voltage > and the other 1/2 is across the gas discharge heat energy dissipating "radiator" > for a theoretical 50% maximum mechanical efficiency. > Also note that the maximum PRF is limited by the "speed limit" of the coax line > "Standard coaxial line impedance for r.f. power transmission in the U.S. is almost exclusively 50 ohms. Different impedance values are optimum for different parameters. Maximum power-carrying capability occurs at a diameter ratio of 1.65 corresponding to 30-ohms impedance. Optimum diameter ratio for voltage breakdown is 2.7 corresponding to 60-ohms impedance (incidentally, the standard impedance in many European countries). Power carrying capacity on breakdown ignores current density which is high at low impedances such as 30 ohms. Attenuation due to conductor losses alone is almost 50% higher at that impedance than at the minimum attenuation impedance of 77 ohms (diameter ratio 3.6). This ratio, however, is limited to only one half maximum power of a 30-ohm line. In the early days, microwave power was hard to come by and lines could not be taxed to capacity. Therefore low attenuation was the overriding factor leading to the selection of 77 (or 75) ohms as a standard. This resulted in hardware of certain fixed dimensions. When low-loss dielectric materials made the flexible line practical, the line dimensions remained unchanged to permit mating with existing equipment. The dielectric constant of polyethylene is 2.3. Impedance of a 77-ohm air line is reduced to 51 ohms when filled with polyethylene. Fifty-one ohms is still in use today though the standard for precision is 50 ohms. The attenuation is minimum at 77 ohms; the breakdown voltage is maximum at 60 ohms and the power-carrying capacity is maximum at 30 ohms. Another thing which might have lead to 50 ohm coax is that if you take a reasonable sized center conductor and put a insulator around that and then put a shield around that and choose all the dimensions so that they are convenient and mechanically look good, then the impedance will come out at about 50 ohms. In order to raise the impedance, the center conductor's diameter needs to be tiny with respect to the overall cable's size. And in order to lower the impedance, the thickness of the insulation between the inner conductor and the shield must be made very thin. Since almost any coax that *looks* good for mechanical reasons just happens to come out at close to 50 ohms anyway, there was a natural tendency for standardization at exactly 50 ohm. "Someone hands you a 1000 foot roll of coax cable and says to you " that's 50 ohm coax use it wisely". So to check out this "50 Ohm" assertion you put your ohmmeter on one end from center conductor to outer conductor (no connection at other end) and to your surprise it reads near infinite impedance! You then short one end and measure the open end with the meter. It now reads near zero ohms! " How can this be!" you ask yourself , "I was assured it was 50 ohm cable!" The reason your meter did not tell you that the cable was 50 ohms is that it could NOT read the Instantaneous voltage/current ratio( V=IR) and its own internal resistance is so high that it causes a very large time constant in the reading. You cannot use a typical ohmmeter to measure characteristic impedance. So how can we measure the characteristic impedance of your coax? Instead of trying to use an ohmmeter we will use the circuit of figure 1. The circuit allows us to generate a pulse of current by toggling the switch with the asterisk indicating where one would measure the current. Now what happens? At the moment the switch connects battery (+) to the center conductor of the coax cable it starts to "charge up" that piece of coax, sort of like charging a capacitor. Then we discharge the cable by shorting center conductor to shield or battery minus. This provides our "pulse" of current. If you measure the current in the center conductor during the pulse generation it will reach a maximum value of Imax=Vbat / Zo, where Zo is the characteristic impedance or equivalently called the surge impedance of the coax. The question arises what properties of coax limit the inrush current to the expression given above? Or stated another way why doesn't the coax charge up "instantly"? To answer that question lets examine the way an ideal capacitor would charge up vs. coax. In theory , an ideal , discharged, capacitor would see an infinite current for zero time if you connect it to a perfect source ( a perfect source has zero internal resistance). Stated another way it charges up "instantly" to the applied voltage of the source. There are two crucial differences in the way a piece of coax charges up and a ideal capacitor would charge up when connected to a battery. First an ideal capacitor has zero inductance in the current path which would limit current inrush rate. Second an ideal capacitor has zero physical length so no there is no propagation in space of current pulse. Coax cable does not charge up instantly. This is because it has a finite series inductance per unit length, a capacitance per unit length and it has a physical length which all contribute to a propagation distribution in time and space of the current surge. In short the series inductance resists the flow of current that wants to charge the capacitance therefore causing propagation delay of the current surge. This propagation delay causes current surge to spread in time. Simultaneously the physical length creates a propagation distribution in space of the current surge. So instead of a infinite "impulse" of current in zero time and zero space, as in the ideal capacitor, the current quickly rises to a maximum and starts propagating down the coax. The speed of propagation is always less than the speed of light and depends on the materials the coax is made from. The current surge method is not how one would normally measure coax cable characteristic impedance but it is a viable method and has an intuitive appeal. Another way to measure the characteristic impedance of coax cable is to measure its inductance and capacitance per unit length , the square root of L divided by C will be in ohms(not farads or henrys) and will be equal to the characteristic impedance. So why do different cables have different characteri! stic imp edances? Every coax cable or other transmission media has its own unique capacitance and inductance per unit length. For coax cables this will l be determined by inner/outer conductor ratios and the dielectric constant of the material between conductors for coax cables. For microstrip lines its primarily the trace width, dielectric constant of the pc board and thickness of PC board. Okay so now maybe "50 Ohm" cable makes some sense and you are now a "50 ohm" systems zealot. You now strive for "perfect 50 ohms" in all your 50 ohm system work. You have become so unreasonable that you insist that all systems be EXACTLY 50 ohms. Now you are in trouble. In truth no coax, connector, amplifiers etc. is EXACTLY 50 ohms. The fact is that it is amazing how far off 50 Ohms you can be in your designs and not see that much degradation in performance! We need a way of expressing how close we are to 50 Ohms in our designs and systems. The most common way of doing this is VSWR or Voltage Standing Wave Ratio. So before we can discuss your fervent pursuit of "pure" 50 ohm systems we need to understand the concept of VSWR. In fact VSWR calculations will work for ANY characteristic impedance 50 ohms or otherwise. Suppose you took your 100 foot roll of 50 ohm coax and cut a 20 foot chunk off it. Now connect one end to a real nice RF type signal generator that we will assume has perfect "50 ohm" impedance and leave the other end of the coax chunk open. Set the generator frequency to say 50 MHz , although just about any frequency will work, 50 MHz is a good spot for most coax. So now we have our "50 ohm " generator supplying a 50 MHz sine wave to a "50 Ohm" piece of coax with no connection at the other end. What happens? Well here is what happens: The sine wave when FIRST applied to the cable, starts to "propagate" towards the open end of the cable. When the sine wave gets to the end of the cable it COMPLETELY "reflects" , turns around, and heads right back towards the generator! Once inside the generator it "dissipates" itself as heat in the generators internal 50 ohm resistor. Now we do the same experiment except we short the other end of the coax cable. Again we would see a complete reflection of the sine wave and total dissipation of reflected wave within the internal 50 ohms of the generator. So if the cable end is open or shorted we get TOTAL reflection of our applied sine wave. This is defined as a VSWR of "infinity to1" Now connect a "perfect" 50 ohm resistor at the end of the coax line. In this case we TERMINATED the cable in its characteristic impedance. The applied sine wave will COMPLETELY dissipate in this termination and there will be zero reflection back towards the generator. Why? Because we fooled the sine wave into thinking it was traveling down a "infinite" piece of cable therefore no reflection." ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
FWIW.  75 ohm coax runs about 65 picofarad/ meter and 0.43 microhenry/meter
with a 0.66 c propagation velocity (~5.0 nanosecond/meter).
 
>
> The voltage across the impedance of the coax line is 1/2 the input pulse voltage
> and the other 1/2 is across the gas discharge heat energy dissipating "radiator"
> for a theoretical 50% maximum mechanical  efficiency.
> Also  note that the maximum PRF is limited by the "speed limit" of the coax line
>

"Standard coaxial line impedance for r.f. power transmission in the U.S. is almost exclusively 50 ohms.

Different impedance values are optimum for different parameters. Maximum power-carrying capability

occurs at a diameter ratio of 1.65 corresponding to 30-ohms impedance. Optimum diameter ratio for

voltage breakdown is 2.7 corresponding to 60-ohms impedance (incidentally, the standard impedance in

many European countries).

Power carrying capacity on breakdown ignores current density which is high at low impedances such as 30

ohms. Attenuation due to conductor losses alone is almost 50% higher at that impedance than at the

minimum attenuation impedance of 77 ohms (diameter ratio 3.6). This ratio, however, is limited to only

one half maximum power of a 30-ohm line.

In the early days, microwave power was hard to come by and lines could not be taxed to capacity.

Therefore low attenuation was the overriding factor leading to the selection of 77 (or 75) ohms as a

standard. This resulted in hardware of certain fixed dimensions. When low-loss dielectric materials made

the flexible line practical, the line dimensions remained unchanged to permit mating with existing

equipment.

The dielectric constant of polyethylene is 2.3. Impedance of a 77-ohm air line is reduced to 51 ohms when

filled with polyethylene. Fifty-one ohms is still in use today though the standard for precision is 50 ohms.

The attenuation is minimum at 77 ohms; the breakdown voltage is maximum at 60 ohms and the power-carrying

capacity is maximum at 30 ohms.

Another thing which might have lead to 50 ohm coax is that if you take a reasonable sized center conductor

and put a insulator around that and then put a shield around that and choose all the dimensions so that they

are convenient and mechanically look good, then the impedance will come out at about 50 ohms. In order

to raise the impedance, the center conductor's diameter needs to be tiny with respect to the overall cable's

size. And in order to lower the impedance, the thickness of the insulation between the inner conductor and

the shield must be made very thin. Since almost any coax that *looks* good for mechanical reasons just

happens to come out at close to 50 ohms anyway, there was a natural tendency for standardization

at exactly 50 ohm.

"Someone hands you a 1000 foot roll  of coax cable and says to you " that's 50 ohm coax use it wisely". So to check out this "50 Ohm" assertion you put your ohmmeter on one end from center conductor to outer conductor (no connection at other end)  and to your surprise it reads near infinite impedance! You then short one end and measure the open end with the meter. It now reads  near zero ohms! " How can this be!" you ask yourself , "I was assured it was 50 ohm cable!" The reason your meter did not tell you that the cable was 50 ohms is that it could NOT read the Instantaneous  voltage/current ratio( V=IR)  and its own internal resistance is so high that it causes a very large time constant in the reading. You cannot use a typical ohmmeter to measure characteristic impedance.

    So how can we  measure the characteristic impedance of your coax? Instead of trying to use an ohmmeter we will use the circuit of figure 1.  The circuit allows us to generate a pulse of current by toggling the switch with the asterisk indicating where one would measure the current.  Now what happens? At the moment the switch connects battery (+)  to the center conductor of the coax cable it starts to "charge up" that piece of coax, sort of like charging a capacitor. Then we discharge the cable by shorting center conductor to shield or battery minus. This provides our "pulse" of current.  If you measure the current  in the center conductor during the pulse generation it will reach a maximum value of  Imax=Vbat / Zo, where Zo is the characteristic impedance or equivalently called the surge impedance  of the coax. The question arises what properties of coax limit the inrush current to the expression given above? Or stated another way why doesn't the coax charge up "instantly"?

    To answer that question lets examine the way an ideal capacitor would charge up vs. coax. In theory , an ideal , discharged,  capacitor would see an infinite current for zero time if you connect it to a perfect source ( a perfect source has zero internal resistance). Stated another way it charges up "instantly" to the applied voltage of the source. There are two crucial differences in the way a piece of coax charges up and a ideal capacitor would charge up when connected to a battery. First an ideal capacitor has zero inductance in the current path which would limit current inrush rate. Second an ideal capacitor has zero physical length so no there is no propagation in space of current pulse.  Coax cable does not charge up instantly. This is because it has a finite series inductance per unit length, a capacitance per unit length and it has a physical length which all contribute to a propagation distribution in time and space of the current surge. In short the series inductance resists the flow of current that wants to charge the capacitance therefore causing propagation delay of the current surge. This propagation delay causes current surge to spread in time. Simultaneously the physical length creates a propagation distribution in space of the current surge. So instead of a infinite "impulse" of current in zero time and zero space, as in the ideal capacitor,  the current quickly rises to a maximum and starts propagating down the coax.  The speed of propagation is always less than the speed of light and depends on the materials the coax is made from. The current surge method is not how one would normally measure coax cable characteristic impedance  but it is a viable method and has an intuitive appeal. Another way to measure the characteristic impedance of coax cable is to measure its inductance and capacitance per unit length , the square root of L divided by C will be in ohms(no! t farads or henrys) and will be equal to the characteristic impedance. So why do different cables have different characteristic impedances? Every coax cable or other transmission media has its own unique capacitance and inductance per unit length. For coax cables this will l be determined by inner/outer conductor ratios and the dielectric constant of the material  between conductors for coax cables. For microstrip lines its primarily the trace width, dielectric constant of the pc board and thickness of PC board. 

   Okay so now maybe "50 Ohm" cable makes some sense and you are now a "50 ohm" systems zealot. You now strive for "perfect 50 ohms"  in all your 50 ohm system work. You have become so unreasonable that you insist that all systems be EXACTLY 50 ohms.  Now you are in trouble. In truth no coax, connector, amplifiers etc. is EXACTLY 50 ohms. The fact is that it is amazing how far off 50 Ohms you can be in your designs and not see that much degradation in performance! We need a way of expressing  how close we are to 50 Ohms in our designs and systems. The most common way of doing this is VSWR or Voltage Standing Wave Ratio. So before we can discuss your fervent pursuit of "pure" 50 ohm systems we need to understand the concept of VSWR. In fact VSWR calculations will work for ANY characteristic impedance 50 ohms or otherwise.

   Suppose you took your 100 foot roll of 50 ohm coax and cut a 20 foot chunk off it. Now connect one end to a real nice RF type signal generator that we will assume has perfect "50 ohm" impedance and leave the other end of the coax chunk open.  Set the generator frequency to say 50 MHz , although just about any frequency will work, 50 MHz is a good spot for most coax. So now we have our "50 ohm " generator supplying a 50 MHz sine wave to  a "50 Ohm" piece of coax with no connection at the other end. What happens?

   Well here is what happens: The sine wave when FIRST applied to the cable, starts to "propagate" towards the open end of the cable. When the sine wave gets to the end of the cable it COMPLETELY "reflects" , turns around,  and heads right back towards the generator! Once inside the generator it "dissipates" itself as heat in the generators internal 50 ohm resistor. Now we do the same experiment except we short the other end of the coax cable. Again we would see a complete reflection of the sine wave and total dissipation of reflected wave within the internal 50 ohms of the generator.  So if the cable end is open or shorted we get TOTAL reflection of our applied sine wave. This is defined as a VSWR of "infinity to1"  Now connect a "perfect" 50 ohm resistor at the end of the coax line. In this case we TERMINATED the cable in its characteristic impedance. The applied sine wave will COMPLETELY dissipate in this termination and there will be zero reflection back towards the generator. Why? Because we fooled the sine wave into thinking it was traveling down a "infinite" piece of cable therefore no reflection."

 

 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 2 05:32:20 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k32CWDw1010535; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 05:32:13 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k32CTVMt009805; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 05:29:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 05:29:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=GBskJBTEbCePeWQfJ+DBuH52OAIfOGGtRzwa6mBRvQHNfI4HRGpSDVf3L/50QvgI; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006402122919953@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 06:29:19 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94041086645feb86bc375dd933fcecdee4a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.173 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67352 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Lost in the thread crossover shuffle: Electrograviy Hypocharge Model: The quark particles in the protons have a frequency of 7.53e22 Hz, and as evidenced from the gravitational force, this frequency is outwardly time-dilated by a relativistic Gamma of 3.35e18, thus the time-dilated electric dipole frequency is 22.49 KHz . It is believed that the time-dilated E M Field Gyration sets up a "HypoCharge" that acts as the 1/R^2 Gravity Force. The "HypoCharge" (*q ) 1.6e-19 coulombs/3.35e18 time-dilation factor achieved by the ~22.5 KHz, is 4.776e-38 Coulombs for each proton "quark". There are 5.98e24/(5.5e-28) = 1.08e52 quarks in the earth x 4.776e-38 = 5.2e14 Coulombs total HypoCharge ( *Q ) for the earth. Thus the HypoCharge ( *Q ) at the earth's surface is: 5.2e14 /(6.38e6)^2 = 12.78 Coulombs Synthesized HypoCharge ( * Q ) necessary to get 9.8 newtons (1 kg force) to levitate: 9.8 = 9e9 x 12.78 x ( *Q ) Then ( *Q ) = 9.8/(9e9 x 12.78) = 9.8/(1.15e11) = 8.52e-11 Coulombs HypoCharge/kg-force +/- = 8.52e-14 Coulombs HypoCharge/gram +/- weight change. The energy per kg for 9.8 newtons force or 1.0 kg weightlessness force is 9.8 newton-meter/sec or 9.8 joule/sec = 9.8 watts ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Lost in the thread crossover shuffle:
 
Electrograviy Hypocharge Model:
 
The quark particles in the protons have a frequency of 7.53e22 Hz, and as evidenced from
the gravitational force, this frequency is outwardly time-dilated by a relativistic Gamma
of 3.35e18, thus the time-dilated electric dipole frequency is 22.49 KHz .
It is believed that the time-dilated E M Field Gyration sets up a "HypoCharge" that
acts as the 1/R^2 Gravity Force.
 
The "HypoCharge"  (*q ) 1.6e-19 coulombs/3.35e18 time-dilation factor achieved by
the ~22.5 KHz, is 4.776e-38 Coulombs for each proton "quark".
 
There are 5.98e24/(5.5e-28) = 1.08e52 quarks in the earth x 4.776e-38 = 5.2e14
Coulombs total HypoCharge  ( *Q ) for the earth.
 
Thus the HypoCharge ( *Q ) at the earth's surface is:
 
5.2e14 /(6.38e6)^2  = 12.78 Coulombs
 
Synthesized HypoCharge ( * Q ) necessary to get 9.8 newtons (1 kg force) to levitate:
 
9.8 = 9e9 x 12.78 x ( *Q ) 
 
Then ( *Q ) =  9.8/(9e9 x 12.78)  = 9.8/(1.15e11) = 8.52e-11 Coulombs HypoCharge/kg-force +/-
= 8.52e-14 Coulombs HypoCharge/gram  +/- weight change.
 
The energy per kg for 9.8 newtons force or 1.0 kg weightlessness  force is 9.8  newton-meter/sec
or 9.8 joule/sec  = 9.8 watts
 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 2 06:31:21 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k32DUqGK003120; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 06:30:53 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k32DUoNu003104; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 06:30:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 06:30:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2006-03-10) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.5 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Message-ID: <001001c65659$a2faeeb0$5a037841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: Re: BP Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 08:30:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C6562F.B996D780" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67353 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C6562F.B996D780 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000D_01C6562F.B9985E20" ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C6562F.B9985E20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank [snip] >>The symbol of the green and yellow, sun like lotus flower that British = >>Petroleum uses as its emblem, is the symbol of the Keebler like Elves = in=20 >>the inner Earth. My guess is that the Elves run BP. I saw a comic = book=20 >>that also showed that the Elves run and control the European Union and = the=20 >>United Nations. Robin wrote.. I think the gnomes of Zurich is a bit more likely. ;) Howdy Robin, Interesting you would mention Zurich. I have been doing some " Texas = math" lately trying to figure out how to get my numbers to perform = wonders while eating cucumbers. Calculating the hard assets in all the = vaults in Switz does not add up to the dollar value of the derivatives ( = D's) purchased by Warren Buffett while acquiring General Re. for some = 20 bil and pocket change. Few actually understand D's. For the most part = D's are off the books. Buffett figured out a way to trade them for = baskets of currency so Zurich is no longer relevant in the grand scheme = of things. The problem is that the Switz can't seem to grasp the notion = they don't count anymore except for a place to store some ill gotten = gains. Greenberg thought he had a bird nest on the ground when he tried the = second act of his AIG play ( the first act being magic with foundation = money) by moving all the cash offshore and replacing it with IOU's ( = perfectly legal now that congress passed a law permitting the dealer to = use another color poker chip in the game. The problem was that he had to = use Gen Re's " now you see it and now you don't" hocus pokus D's and = guess who wound up with the gold and who got the shaft ? Trying to figure out the total value of D's floating around in the world = is waste of time cuz they are in the process of " morphing" into an = entirely new concept described as " Q's". as in Al Capone's street smart = counterfeit money games. He woke up one morning with a pocket full of = Q's he had printed himself to trade the suckers only to discover he = loved the stuff so much that he started believing it was worth = something. No wonder the Red Chinese gov't don't want to "float" their currency. = They think everybody is insane but them. Of course they no longer send = their kids to college in England where the masters teach professional = poker. What is a derivative?.. hmmm.. well it's sorta like a coupla Texas = cattle rustlers that just happen to have a few " stray" cows in their = corrall. Seems that the brands could pass across the border as long as = you went around a few " obstacles". Fast forward this notion to today's = world and the rustlers give each other an IOU and then take the IOU's to = the bank and borrow money on the value of each other's IOU's. The = amusing part is that nowadays the rustlers need not have any cows, = rustled ot otherwise. Must leave those good ole boys in Zurich wondering = what happened. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C6562F.B9985E20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
 

[snip]
>>The symbol of the green and yellow, sun like lotus = flower=20 that British
>>Petroleum uses as its emblem, is the symbol of = the=20 Keebler like Elves in
>>the inner Earth.  My guess is = that the=20 Elves run BP.  I saw a comic book
>>that also showed that = the=20 Elves run and control the European Union and the
>>United = Nations.


Robin wrote..
I think the gnomes of Zurich is a bit more = likely.=20 ;)

Howdy Robin,

Interesting you would mention Zurich. I have been doing some " Texas = math"=20 lately trying to figure out how to get my numbers to perform wonders = while=20 eating cucumbers. Calculating the hard assets in all the vaults in Switz = does=20 not add up to the dollar value of the derivatives ( D's)  purchased = by=20 Warren Buffett while acquiring General Re. for some 20 bil and pocket = change.=20 Few actually understand D's. For the most part  D's are = off the=20 books. Buffett figured out a way to trade them for baskets of currency = so Zurich=20 is no longer relevant in the grand scheme of things. The problem is that = the=20 Switz can't seem to grasp the notion they don't count anymore except for = a place=20 to store some ill gotten gains.

 Greenberg thought he had a bird nest on the ground when he = tried the=20 second act of his AIG play ( the first act being magic with foundation = money) by=20 moving all the cash  offshore and replacing it with IOU's ( = perfectly legal=20 now that congress passed a law permitting the dealer to use another = color poker=20 chip in the game. The problem was that he had to use Gen Re's " now you = see it=20 and now you don't" hocus pokus D's and guess who wound up with the gold = and who=20 got the shaft ?

Trying to figure out the total value of D's floating around in the = world=20 is  waste of time cuz they are in the process of " morphing" = into an=20 entirely new concept described as " Q's". as in Al Capone's street smart = counterfeit money games. He woke up one morning with a pocket full of = Q's he had=20 printed himself to trade the suckers only to discover he loved the stuff = so much=20 that he started believing it was worth something.

No wonder the Red Chinese gov't don't want to "float" their currency. = They=20 think everybody is insane but them. Of course they no longer send their = kids to=20 college in England where the masters teach  professional poker.

What is a derivative?.. hmmm.. well it's sorta like a coupla Texas = cattle=20 rustlers that just happen to have a few " stray" cows in their corrall. = Seems=20 that the brands could pass across the border as long as you went around = a few "=20 obstacles". Fast forward this notion to today's world and the rustlers = give each=20 other an IOU and then take the IOU's to the bank and borrow money = on the=20 value of each other's IOU's. The amusing part is that nowadays the = rustlers need=20 not have any cows, rustled ot otherwise. Must leave those good ole boys = in=20 Zurich wondering what happened.

Richard

------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C6562F.B9985E20-- ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C6562F.B996D780 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000b01c65659$a24e5b00$5a037841@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C6562F.B996D780-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 2 06:44:08 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k32DhmCt007573; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 06:43:48 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k32Dhic5007529; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 06:43:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 06:43:44 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Y2kOIVfocv73EVlGHq0s8RYBxnVAyl61yyp6Ya+DNCOTq4jQJKxq+kKC1pS3vX1Z; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006402134324920@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 07:43:24 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94047c41c1521edf277c54f963efd986761350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.233 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67354 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > FWIW. 75 ohm coax runs about 65 picofarad/ meter and 0.43 microhenry/meter > with a 0.66 c propagation velocity (~5.0 nanosecond/meter). > 50% mechanical efficiency a 1.0 meter long section of 75 ohm coax terminated with a 75 ohm "light bulb" pulsed with a string of 60 volt "spikes" at 20 watts/kg force on 1.0 kg mass where the Hypocharge of the length of cable (*Q coax ) = CV coulombs and (*Q earth) ~ = 13 coulombs: 20 = V^2/150 Then V = 55 volts and current I 55/150 =0.365 amperes. Force (Kg) = 9.8 x 9e9 x (*Q earth) x *Q coax) = 9.8 x 9.0e9 x 13 x 55 x 65e-12 = 4,100 Kg = 4.1 Tonnes!! Put that coax in a Vise and stand clear, before you "spike" it with that string of ~5.0 nanosecond pulses. :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII >  
> FWIW.  75 ohm coax runs about 65 picofarad/ meter and 0.43 microhenry/meter
> with a 0.66 c propagation velocity (~5.0 nanosecond/meter).
>
50% mechanical efficiency a 1.0 meter long section of 75 ohm coax terminated with a
75 ohm "light bulb" pulsed with a string of 60 volt "spikes" at 20 watts/kg force on 1.0 kg mass
where the Hypocharge of the length of cable (*Q coax ) = CV  coulombs
and (*Q earth)  ~ = 13 coulombs:
 
20 = V^2/150  Then V = 55 volts and current I 55/150 =0.365 amperes.
 
Force (Kg) =  9.8 x 9e9 x (*Q earth) x  *Q coax)  = 9.8 x 9.0e9 x 13 x 55 x 65e-12 = 4,100 Kg
= 4.1 Tonnes!!
 
Put that coax in a Vise and stand clear, before you "spike" it with that string of ~5.0 nanosecond pulses.   :-)
 
Fred
 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 2 06:52:02 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k32DpimY011343; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 06:51:44 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k32DpfwA011321; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 06:51:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 06:51:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 09:51:36 -0400 From: fznidarsic@aol.com Message-Id: <8C82473B1E027FC-17A4-7119@mblk-d35.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 17114 Subject: Gold nano particles = resonant hydrino catalyst? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MailBlocks_8C82473B1E027FC_17A4_6A7F_mblk-d35.sysops.aol.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 205.188.212.219 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <4XEZLC.A.0wC.tb9LEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67355 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----------MailBlocks_8C82473B1E027FC_17A4_6A7F_mblk-d35.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Though the ice did not melt when heated by low-intensity laser alone, it dissolved once a gold nanoparticle was embedded, said the scientists, whose findings have been published online by the journal Nano Letters snip............................ Let's see. 50nm stimulated with an IR laser. The product of the dimension and the frequency is one megahertz-meter. Per Znidarsic's theorem, "The constants of the motion tend toward the electromagnetic is a Bose condensate that is stimulated at a dimensional frequency of one megahertz-meter" I tried the same same experiment with cheep titianum oxide nanoparicles. It did not work for me, yet. Frank Znidarsic ----------MailBlocks_8C82473B1E027FC_17A4_6A7F_mblk-d35.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
 Though the ice did not melt when heated by low-intensity laser alone, it dissolved once a gold nanoparticle was embedded, said the scientists, whose findings have been published onlin! e by the journal Nano Letters
 
snip............................
 
Let's see.  50nm  stimulated with an IR laser.  The product of the dimension and the frequency is one megahertz-meter.
 
Per Znidarsic's theorem,  "The constants of the motion tend toward the electromagnetic is a Bose condensate that is stimulated at a dimensional frequency of one megahertz-meter"
 
I tried the same same experiment with cheep titianum oxide nanoparicles.  It did not work for me, yet.
 
Frank Znidarsic
----------MailBlocks_8C82473B1E027FC_17A4_6A7F_mblk-d35.sysops.aol.com-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 2 07:35:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k32EZide030968; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 07:35:44 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k32EZgJ0030955; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 07:35:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 07:35:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <003501c65662$b61c9cb0$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex-l" References: <410-22006402134324920@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 07:35:37 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: <7Mrp2B.A.ljH.-E-LEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67356 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred > a 1.0 meter long section of 75 ohm coax terminated with a 75 ohm "light bulb" pulsed with a string of 60 volt "spikes" at 20 watts/kg force on 1.0 kg mass where the Hypocharge of the length of cable (*Q coax ) = CV coulombs and (*Q earth) ~ = 13 coulombs: This 'artiste' may be in a bit of unplanned levity... should he program in the correct string of pulses: http://www.we-make-money-not-art.com/archives/004305.php From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 2 08:12:03 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k32FBmth015681; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 08:11:48 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k32FBkdu015669; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 08:11:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 08:11:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=DbWetAaEoqvoa8R0RFBp0pC9qJuofBlb+gFhRwE/eatrVPV2fouzkbb2/anu1puB; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006402151141571@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 09:11:41 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9405f69e80fa661c4883f25338241bfa700350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.193 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67357 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Beginning to sound like the movie, "First Encounters Of The Third Kind". ain't it? > [Original Message] > From: Jones Beene > To: vortex-l > Date: 4/2/2006 8:36:19 AM > Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields > > Fred > > > a 1.0 meter long section of 75 ohm coax terminated with a > 75 ohm "light bulb" pulsed with a string of 60 volt "spikes" at 20 > watts/kg force on 1.0 kg mass where the Hypocharge of the length > of cable (*Q coax ) = CV coulombs and (*Q earth) ~ = 13 > coulombs: > > > This 'artiste' may be in a bit of unplanned levity... should he > program in the correct string of pulses: > > http://www.we-make-money-not-art.com/archives/004305.php > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 2 08:29:53 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k32FTVqO022814; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 08:29:32 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k32FTTeG022791; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 08:29:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 08:29:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <003601c6566a$3988da30$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Subject: quantum time Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 08:29:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: <36XE5.A.-jF.Z3-LEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67358 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What follows is strictly on the QT... http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/jono/thesis.html This thesis on quantum time (QT ?) is interesting for this conclusion: "in quantum mechanics, time plays a role unlike any other observable. We find that measuring whether an event happened, and measuring when an event happened are fundamentally different - the two measurements do not correspond to compatible observables and interfere with each other. The temporal order of events is also an ambiguous concept in quantum mechanics. It is not always possible to determine whether one event lies in the future or past of another event." ... but can the disorientation be coordinated on a massive scale?? If so, the implication is that in LENR ... when a single random, and extremely low-probability QM tunneling event produces so much energy and in such a small confined space that "time" itself is forced to be extended in order that the energy be allowed dissipate, then that forced slowing-of-time will be balanced by a corresponding speeding-up of time in the immediate vicinity. WE are talking sub-nanometer dimensions here. IOW ... if 24 MeV of energy is dissipated in the preferred blackbody IR spectrum then there is a cause-and-effect transaction. For convenience let us say that it is dissipated in discrete quanta of 1 eV (in actuality it is the median or average mass-energy for blackbody radiation would be much lower) then "time" as we normally reckon it - has been slowed down by a factor of 24 million. In order to "balance the books" as it were, in the local area of this one event, time must be speeded up by the same degree, which increases the probability of a second low-probability reaction of the kind which caused this nascent "chain reaction" to initiate. And "chain reaction" is the key to understanding. We end up with a cascade of local events, each stimulating another, in which local time is bifurcated in two zones - a fast zone (where tunneling occurs millions of times faster) and a slow zone (where energy is dissipated millions of times slower). The result: you guessed it, didn't you? COLD FUSION... Jones ...tempus non semper fugit The most 'pregnant' quote of all time (in the sense of 'bursting with meaning' ...not to mention the marketing key to the success of the Swatch) is: ... **time is what you make of it** ... nothing more, nothing less... From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 2 09:51:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k32Gp4XN002921; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 09:51:05 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k32Gp2pc002907; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 09:51:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 09:51:02 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 12:50:56 -0400 From: fznidarsic@aol.com Message-Id: <8C8248CBEDE6342-1940-138C@mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 17114 Subject: paper published Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MailBlocks_8C8248CBEDE6342_1940_120F_mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 205.188.212.221 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67359 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----------MailBlocks_8C8248CBEDE6342_1940_120F_mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" http://www.wbabin.net/ enjoy Frank Znidarsic ----------MailBlocks_8C8248CBEDE6342_1940_120F_mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
 
 
enjoy
 
Frank Znidarsic
----------MailBlocks_8C8248CBEDE6342_1940_120F_mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 2 12:00:04 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k32Ixmfd018806; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 11:59:48 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k32Ixkj0018794; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 11:59:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 11:59:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 14:59:41 -0400 Message-Id: <8C8249EBBBD3F7E-1E10-14FCC@mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <001001c65659$a2faeeb0$5a037841@xptower> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <001001c65659$a2faeeb0$5a037841@xptower> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: BP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.134 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67360 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: RC Macaulay What is a derivative?.. <><><><><><><> Second order fiat currency. Q's => third . . . Turtles all the way down. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 2 12:02:21 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k32J27Gr019901; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 12:02:07 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k32J25K2019877; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 12:02:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 12:02:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 15:01:56 -0400 Message-Id: <8C8249F0C1EA0F8-1E10-14FD2@mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <8C82473B1E027FC-17A4-7119@mblk-d35.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <8C82473B1E027FC-17A4-7119@mblk-d35.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Gold nano particles = resonant hydrino catalyst? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.134 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k32J20vG019829 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67361 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: fznidarsic@aol.com Per Znidarsic's theorem,  "The constants of the motion tend toward the electromagnetic is a Bose condensate that is stimulated at a dimensional frequency of one megahertz-meter" <><><><><><> How could this be? The second and the meter are purely arbitrary dimensional measurements. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 2 12:53:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k32JrQiE005813; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 12:53:28 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k32JrPKt005783; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 12:53:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 12:53:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 15:53:17 -0400 From: fznidarsic@aol.com Message-Id: <8C824A638438881-142C-1891@mblk-d51.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 17114 Subject: Re: Gold nano particles = resonant hydrino catalyst? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MailBlocks_8C824A63826EC6D_142C_1427_mblk-d51.sysops.aol.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 205.188.212.235 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <-WuLV.A.MaB.zuCMEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67362 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----------MailBlocks_8C824A63826EC6D_142C_1427_mblk-d51.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" How could this be? The second and the meter are purely arbitrary dimensional measurements. Terry ___________________________________________________ Thank you Terry. Actually it is 1.094 megahertz-meters. It rounds nicely to one. I just got out a paper on the subject. http://www.wbabin.net/ I have been trying to get this paper out on a main stream journal for 10 years. I finally let it go out a non-peer reviewed journal. 1.094 meghertz meters expresses the quantum condition from the view point of the transitional quantum state. Planck's constant expresses the quantum condition from the view point of the stationary quanum state. It's just another way of looking at things. The alternate view, however, reveals observables disclosed in cold fusion and gravitomagnetic experiments. For the comparison see http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chapterc.html thanks for asking, Frank Znidarsic ----------MailBlocks_8C824A63826EC6D_142C_1427_mblk-d51.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
How could this be? The second and the meter are purely arbitrary dimensional measurements. 
Terry
___________________________________________________

Thank you Terry.  Actually it is 1.094 megahertz-meters.
It rounds nicely to one.
 
I just got out a paper on the subject.
 
http://www.wbabin.net/
 
I have been trying to get this paper out on a main stream journal for 10 years.
I finally let it go out a non-peer reviewed journal. 
 
1.094 meghertz meters expresses the quantum condition from the view point of the
transitional quantum state.  Planck's constant expresses the quantum condition from
the view point of the stationary quanum state.  It's just another way of looking at things.
The alternate view, however, reveals observables disclosed in cold fusion and gravitomagnetic
experiments.  
For the comparison see
 
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chapterc.html
 
thanks for asking,
 
 
Frank Znidarsic
 
 
 
----------MailBlocks_8C824A63826EC6D_142C_1427_mblk-d51.sysops.aol.com-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 2 13:33:08 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k32KWvbC022659; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 13:32:57 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k32KWtaT022648; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 13:32:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 13:32:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060402203253780.BE8036403063@mwinf3109.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060402203255.00a0c470@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:32:55 +0100 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: paper published Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67363 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:50 pm 02/04/2006 -0400, you wrote: >http://www.wbabin.net/ > > >enjoy > >Frank Znidarsic Well done. These science sites are a good release mechanism for scientific frustration. I hope they eventually replace the stifling "professional" paper based journals in the same way that self published music groups are eating away at the music corporates. I liked the quotes trailer in red. The following was reminiscent of a piece of advice Keith once offered me. ;-) =============================================== Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats: Howard Aiken =============================================== Cheers, Grimer From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 2 13:42:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k32KgNSN026329; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 13:42:24 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k32KgLOC026310; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 13:42:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 13:42:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060402204151416.659B76400563@mwinf3109.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060402204153.009fe910@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:41:53 +0100 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: BP Resent-Message-ID: <3UK-HD.A.6aG.scDMEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67364 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:59 pm 02/04/2006 -0400, you wrote: > > >-----Original Message----- >From: RC Macaulay > >What is a derivative?.. > ><><><><><><><> > >Second order fiat currency. Q's => third . . . > >Turtles all the way down. > >Terry What might appropriately be called Financial Jounce - the precursor of Financial Bounce perhaps, eh! 8-) Frank From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 2 13:51:20 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k32Kp9AO029424; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 13:51:09 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k32Kp815029411; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 13:51:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 13:51:08 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060402205107455.6F38B200394A@mwinf3111.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060402205109.00a16ca0@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:51:09 +0100 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Gold nano particles = resonant hydrino catalyst? Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67365 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:53 pm 02/04/2006 -0400, Terry wrote: > How could this be? The second and the meter are > purely arbitrary dimensional measurements. > Terry One would think so - but I've often wondered if they have unwittingly been coupled in some way or other. Frank From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 2 14:14:04 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k32LDpu6004778; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 14:13:51 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k32LDnpR004756; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 14:13:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 14:13:49 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gold nano particles = resonant hydrino catalyst? Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 07:13:42 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <8C82473B1E027FC-17A4-7119@mblk-d35.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C82473B1E027FC-17A4-7119@mblk-d35.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta04ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.58.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sun, 2 Apr 2006 21:13:41 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k32LDgDV004705 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67366 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to fznidarsic@aol.com's message of Sun, 02 Apr 2006 09:51:36 -0400: Hi Frank, [snip] > Though the ice did not melt when heated by low-intensity laser alone, it dissolved once a gold nanoparticle was embedded, said the scientists, whose findings have been published online by the journal Nano Letters > >snip............................ > >Let's see. 50nm stimulated with an IR laser. The product of the dimension and the frequency is one megahertz-meter. > >Per Znidarsic's theorem, "The constants of the motion tend toward the electromagnetic is a Bose condensate that is stimulated at a dimensional frequency of one megahertz-meter" > >I tried the same same experiment with cheep titianum oxide nanoparicles. It did not work for me, yet. [snip] TiO2 is not a conductor, gold is. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 2 14:15:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k32LFmWb005881; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 14:15:49 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k32LFl62005862; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 14:15:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 14:15:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <008c01c6569a$9a079ba0$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <8C8248CBEDE6342-1940-138C@mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: paper published Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 14:15:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67367 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: After one enjoys Frank's fine paper, there are are others of aether-interest on this site, and esp. in light of some recent posting on electrogravity and the Hotson epo-aether : http://www.wbabin.net/science/tombe.pdf http://www.wbabin.net/physics/cvdt3.pdf The Double Helix Theory of the Magnetic Field byFrederick David Tombe, Abstract. Maxwell's 1861 paper 'On Physical Lines of Force' is interpreted, and an improvement is proposed which involves replacing his vortex cells with rotating electron positron dipoles. The cause of magnetism is then explained in terms of a vortex sea of electron positron dipoles, in which magnetic field lines are comprised of helical springs created out these dipoles. The electron positron dipoles are bonded together in a double helix pattern and the resulting helical springs close on themselves in elliptical or circular solenoidal hoops. END ...makes me wonder if the proposed double helix (of epos) which is responsible for the magnetic "field line" also functions as some kind of template for another double helix.... From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 2 18:39:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k331dUvk028825; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 18:39:31 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k331dSco028805; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 18:39:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 18:39:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=U1dPA+ErwNgAzSjgsOUqGxJNI8ikahXiutVzYNXILo6sV3qvaSK2jXCtw1wsucTU; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200641313920336@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Gold nano particles = resonant hydrino catalyst? Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 19:39:20 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940e5ddbe20215a1bbbd0167fd57883cf05350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.76 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67368 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi Robin. This in line with the free energy release of the spontaneously formed Double Layer at the Colloidal Gold-H2O interface. I used Colloidal Gold obtained from a medical supply house (it is/was used in spinal injection) in water heat pipe research in the late 1960s. > > Though the ice did not melt when heated by low-intensity laser alone, it > dissolved once a gold nanoparticle was embedded, said the scientists, whose > findings have been published online by the journal Nano Letters > The laser photons should release the 1/2 CV^2 energy stored from the free energy Double Layer. So does the electrolysis of water and many other OU effects associated with agitation of the H2O-Solid interface. Fred http://electrochem.cwru.edu/ed/encycl/art-c03-elchem-cap.htm "The Helmholtz region capacitance "CH" is of special significance for electrochemical capacitors since it is directly dependent on accessible electrode area and has large values (relative to those for regular dielectric capacitors) between about 16 µF/cm2 and about 40-50 µF/cm2, depending on electrode potential, the chemical nature of the metal surface, chemical nature of the solvent, and the types of ions (and their solvation by the solvent) present in the electrolyte solution." "Hence, it is seen that with large specific-area porous electrodes, for example at carbons having say 1000 m2/g of material and exhibiting, say, 15 µF/(real cm2) of double-layer capacitance in some suitable electrolyte solution, the accessible capacitance "C" is 1000 (m2/g) × 10,000 (cm2/m2) × 15 (µF/cm2) = 150 million µF/g, that is 150 farads/g, a very large capacitance! Hence the term "supercapacitors" or "ultracapacitors" for devices based on double-layer capacitance at high-area substrates." ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Hi Robin.
 
This in line with the free energy release of the spontaneously formed  Double Layer at the
Colloidal Gold-H2O interface. I used Colloidal Gold obtained from a medical supply  house
(it is/was used in spinal injection) in water heat pipe research in the late 1960s.
>
> Though the ice did not melt when heated by low-intensity laser alone, it
> dissolved once a gold nanoparticle was embedded, said the scientists, whose
> findings have been published online by the journal Nano Letters
>
The laser photons should release the 1/2 CV^2 energy stored from
the free energy Double Layer. So does the electrolysis of water and many
other OU effects associated with agitation of the H2O-Solid interface.
 
Fred
 
 
"The Helmholtz region capacitance "CH" is of special significance for electrochemical capacitors since it is directly dependent on accessible electrode area and has large values (relative to those for regular dielectric capacitors) between about 16 µF/cm2 and about 40-50 µF/cm2, depending on electrode potential, the chemical nature of the metal surface, chemical nature of the solvent, and the types of ions (and their solvation by the solvent) present in the electrolyte solution."
 
"Hence, it is seen that with large specific-area porous electrodes, for example at carbons having say 1000 m2/g of material and exhibiting, say, 15 µF/(real cm2) of double-layer capacitance in some suitable electrolyte solution, the accessible capacitance "C" is 1000 (m2/g) × 10,000 (cm2/m2) × 15 (µF/cm2) = 150 million µF/g, that is 150 farads/g, a very large capacitance! Hence the term "supercapacitors" or "ultracapacitors" for devices based on double-layer capacitance at high-area substrates."
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 2 18:59:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k331xFMm002143; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 18:59:16 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k331xDXZ002117; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 18:59:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 18:59:13 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Cd4JTNYQq0q7FREg35LHYuI3A7EE0oChzpJ+h2DOSbn5QjdMKOyEBCSPidvdqmIb; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064131593136@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Gold nano particles = resonant hydrino catalyst? Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 19:59:03 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94003e37035dd18cd1f75ecdf6cfeb3fc61350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.112 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67369 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII They still use that ruby-red"Colloidal Gold Sol" . :-) http://www.devicelink.com/ivdt/archive/01/03/001.html "As early as the first decade of the twentieth century, colloidal gold sols containing particles smaller than 10 nm were being produced by chemical methods.1 However, these inorganic suspensions were not applied to protein labeling until 1971, when Faulk and Taylor invented the immunogold staining procedure.2 Since that time, the labeling of targeting molecules, especially proteins, with gold nanoparticles has revolutionized the visualization of cellular and tissue components by electron microscopy." ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/2/2006 7:40:04 PM Subject: Re: Gold nano particles = resonant hydrino catalyst? Hi Robin. This in line with the free energy release of the spontaneously formed Double Layer at the Colloidal Gold-H2O interface. I used Colloidal Gold obtained from a medical supply house (it is/was used in spinal injection) in water heat pipe research in the late 1960s. > > Though the ice did not melt when heated by low-intensity laser alone, it > dissolved once a gold nanoparticle was embedded, said the scientists, whose > findings have been published online by the journal Nano Letters > The laser photons should release the 1/2 CV^2 energy stored from the free energy Double Layer. So does the electrolysis of water and many other OU effects associated with agitation of the H2O-Solid interface. Fred http://electrochem.cwru.edu/ed/encycl/art-c03-elchem-cap.htm "The Helmholtz region capacitance "CH" is of special significance for electrochemical capacitors since it is directly dependent on accessible electrode area and has large values (relative to those for regular dielectric capacitors) between about 16 µF/cm2 and about 40-50 µF/cm2, depending on electrode potential, the chemical nature of the metal surface, chemical nature of the solvent, and the types of ions (and their solvation by the solvent) present in the electrolyte solution." "Hence, it is seen that with large specific-area porous electrodes, for example at carbons having say 1000 m2/g of material and exhibiting, say, 15 µF/(real cm2) of double-layer capacitance in some suitable electrolyte solution, the accessible capacitance "C" is 1000 (m2/g) × 10,000 (cm2/m2) × 15 (µF/cm2) = 150 million µF/g, that is 150 farads/g, a very large capacitance! Hence the term "supercapacitors" or "ultracapacitors" for devices based on double-layer capacitance at high-area substrates." ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
They still use that ruby-red"Colloidal Gold Sol" .  :-)
 
 
"As early as the first decade of the twentieth century, colloidal gold sols containing particles smaller than 10 nm were being produced by chemical methods.1 However, these inorganic suspensions were not applied to protein labeling until 1971, when Faulk and Taylor invented the immunogold staining procedure.2 Since that time, the labeling of targeting molecules, especially proteins, with gold nanoparticles has revolutionized the visualization of cellular and tissue components by electron microscopy."
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/2/2006 7:40:04 PM
Subject: Re: Gold nano particles = resonant hydrino catalyst?

Hi Robin.
 
This in line with the free energy release of the spontaneously formed  Double Layer at the
Colloidal Gold-H2O interface. I used Colloidal Gold obtained from a medical supply  house
(it is/was used in spinal injection) in water heat pipe research in the late 1960s.
>
> Though the ice did not melt when heated by low-intensity laser alone, it
> dissolved once a gold nanoparticle was embedded, said the scientists, whose
> findings have been published online by the journal Nano Letters
>
The laser photons should release the 1/2 CV^2 energy stored from
the free energy Double Layer. So does the electrolysis of water and many
other OU effects associated with agitation of the H2O-Solid interface.
 
Fred
 
 
"The Helmholtz region capacitance "CH" is of special significance for electrochemical capacitors since it is directly dependent on accessible electrode area and has large values (relative to those for regular dielectric capacitors) between about 16 µF/cm2 and about 40-50 µF/cm2, depending on electrode potential, the chemical nature of the metal surface, chemical nature of the solvent, and the types of ions (and their solvation by the solvent) present in the electrolyte solution."
 
"Hence, it is seen that with large specific-area porous electrodes, for example at carbons having say 1000 m2/g of material and exhibiting, say, 15 µF/(real cm2) of double-layer capacitance in some suitable electrolyte solution, the accessible capacitance "C" is 1000 (m2/g) × 10,000 (cm2/m2) × 15 (µF/cm2) = 150 million µF/g, that is 150 farads/g, a very large capacitance! Hence the term "supercapacitors" or "ultracapacitors" for devices based on double-layer capacitance at high-area substrates."
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 2 19:55:34 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k332tNll024661; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 19:55:23 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k332tMru024651; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 19:55:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 19:55:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <040a01c656ca$0a28b3e0$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Subject: T.S.E. speaks... Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 19:55:16 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67370 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Now that April, the "cruelest month" is getting off to a uneventful start - better get ready for the worst, in TSE fashion: Ruination Day, 2006. The Waste Land APRIL is the cruelest month, breeding Lilacs out of the dead land, mixing Memory and desire, stirring Dull roots with spring rain. About six months ago in reference to a post about the popular book with the title: "The Long Emergency: Surviving the Converging Catastrophes of the Twenty-First Century" ... this date and book brought to mind a grim flash - a possible omen of things to come. And today, with the new Issue of SciAm arriving, this omen crossed through the normal fog of cognitive dissonance once again, as the magazine mentions the Great San Francisco Earthquake of 1906 (April 18) in the opening pages. Ever hear of "Ruination Day"...(April 14)? It's becoming a "meme" and one of those mythical Spring dates... kind of like the "Ides of March". The soothsayer's warning to Julius Caesar, "Beware the Ides of March," has forever imbued that date (Mar 15th) with a sense of foreboding, at least to those who remember a little history, or a little Shakespeare. But according to the arcane Roman dating scheme, the Ides of April would fall on the 13th instead of the 15th, so there is nothing pernicious really about modern "Ides" as a Lunar dating quirk relating to the 18th, or is there? Memes can affect human propensity for tragedy perhaps - the self-fulfilling prophecy, as it were. But as for "nature," this is a force that should be totally oblivious to petty human frivolities, of all things. "Ruination day" is still out there ... reverberating as ominous poetry, embodied in a catchy song by Gillian Welch, and it refers to real events of April 14th of the recent past - including the sinking of the Titanic, the assassination of Abraham Lincoln and the almost unbelievable (to most Americans who have never heard of it) start of the "Dust Bowl" in Oklahoma and Kansas - a true freak of nature's whims. Ruination day And the sky was red. I went back to work, And back to bed. And the iceberg broke, And the Okies fled, And the Great Emancipator Took a bullet in the back of the head... What is also a little alarming about Ruination Day this year, depending on where one happens to be living, is that as mentioned in a little over two weeks - the100th anniversary of the Great San Francisco Earthquake of 1906 will be not "just" acknowledged but more like "celebrated" in gala events - kind of like snubbing your nose at the concept of ID, if its out there. Is that arrogant, unwise or really meaningless? The answer soon. Human response to tragedy is often confusing - as in the tradition of the Irish Wake - and that is laudable and should be apropos of nothing really, as Mother Nature shouldn't give a damn about human arrogance, round numbers or "appellations" - earthquakes being as unpredictable as they are. ... yet, even so.... the San Andreas Fault is known scientifically as a "100 year fault," and to make things worse, this year the rainfall has be at an all time record high - 26 of 30 days in March with over a full years average rain in a month. That kind of extra stress on unstable fault lines could conceivably serve as a trigger. But even so, you can't take that kind of labeling-thing - "100 years" - literally, now can you? Guess not. Seismologists have even scheduled a meeting here on the occasion: http://www.1906eqconf.org/ http://www.seismosoc.org/meetings/2006/schedule_overview.html hmm... Nevertheless, if I were a stock market gambler, I would consider short-selling the Q's - which is the high-tech index - heavily weighted towards companies in this area. After all, earthquake or no, April is the cruelest month Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 00:20:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k337K6gG026355; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 00:20:10 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k337K4QV026340; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 00:20:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 00:20:04 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <4430CC7F.10001@usfamily.net> Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 02:19:27 -0500 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gold nano particles = resonant hydrino catalyst? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67371 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >Hi, > >These are about the right size to resonate with ground state >hydrogen, which would release hydrino heat. > >http://www.physorg.com/news63003999.html > > Interesting observation Robin. I'd like to hear more. Are you saying that the laser light would interact with the ground state hydrogen? Hydrino heat, what is that? --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 02:14:01 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k339Dn6r002746; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 02:13:49 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k339Dl0D002732; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 02:13:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 02:13:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060403091340398.615172400084@mwinf3102.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060403091342.009ffd80@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 10:13:42 +0100 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: paper published Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67372 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:15 pm 02/04/2006 -0700, Jones wrote: > After one enjoys Frank's fine paper, there are others of > aether-interest on this site, and esp. in light of some recent > posting on electrogravity and the Hotson epo-aether : > > http://www.wbabin.net/science/tombe.pdf > http://www.wbabin.net/physics/cvdt3.pdf > > ================================================================= > The Double Helix Theory of the Magnetic Field > byFrederick David Tombe, > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Abstract. Maxwell's 1861 paper 'On Physical Lines of Force' is > interpreted, and an improvement is proposed which involves > replacing his vortex cells with rotating electron positron > dipoles. The cause of magnetism is then explained in terms of a > vortex sea of electron positron dipoles, in which magnetic field > lines are comprised of helical springs created out these dipoles. > The electron positron dipoles are bonded together in a double > helix pattern and the resulting helical springs close on > themselves in elliptical or circular solenoidal hoops. END > ================================================================ > > ...makes me wonder if the proposed double helix (of epos) which is > responsible for the magnetic "field line" also functions as some > kind of template for another double helix.... More than likely I would say. Well spotted old bean - although since you're only a nipper of 59 perhaps that should be young beene. And as Tony Blair is wont to say at PMQs (Prime Minister's Question time). "I refer you to the answer I gave a moment ago." ================================================================= LOOPY FIELD LINES Grimer Mon, 13 Jun 2005 23:44:25 -0700 There are certain advantages is being a quasi modo in the cathedral of EM. One can rush in and utter terrible heresies in all innocence. I have been recently going through a rather comprehensive site on EM, to wit:- http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/302l/lectures/lectures.html and I find that my recognition on general grounds that the field lines around a conductor form a tight spiral and not a series of closed loops is anathema as far as "Gauss' law for magnetic fields" is concerned since, -------------------------------------------------------- An immediate corollary of the above law [i.e.Gauss' Law] is that the number of magnetic field lines which enter a closed surface is always equal to the number of field lines which leave the surface. In other words: Magnetic field lines form closed loops which never begin or end. Thus, magnetic field lines behave in a quite different manner to electric field lines, which begin on positive charges, end on negative charges, and never form closed loops. -------------------------------------------------------- I suppose being a heretic would be more fun if I had ever been baptised in the EM church - but then perhaps I would have never seen the looniness of loops. I now realise why the hierarchical identity between a coil and a capacitor has never been recognised in physical terms. I shall have to try and reconstruct the diagram I drew many years ago but never actually incorporated into any Internal Note. ================================================================= Cheers, Grimer From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 03:40:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k33Ae1oW002924; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 03:40:01 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k33Adxcc002892; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 03:39:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 03:39:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=mBA5lmIkw6iLWWPO6ziP3N45kg62vpCKpkisJHj28t78mUtmy5HWXvH+PylM4CwZ; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006413103952706@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 04:39:52 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940625393f798c00121afde2d1aa3ab8874350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.143 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67373 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > FWIW. 75 ohm coax runs about 65 picofarad/ meter and 0.43 microhenry/meter > with a 0.66 c propagation velocity (~5.0 nanosecond/meter). > > 50% mechanical efficiency a 1.0 meter long section of 75 ohm coax terminated with a > 75 ohm "light bulb" pulsed with a string of 60 volt "spikes" at 20 watts/kg force on 1.0 kg mass > where the Hypocharge of the length of cable (*Q coax ) = CV coulombs > and (*Q earth) ~ = 13 coulombs: > > 20 = V^2/150 Then V = 55 volts and current I 55/150 =0.365 amperes. > Switching to a low impedance (1.0 ohms and up) flat transmission line is possible too. DuPont Kapton (polyimide -269 to + 400 C, dielectric constant 3.4 ) is rugged and has advantages for forming the pulse line/s on the walls of your craft as though you were decorating it with wallpaper. A 12 ohm line sounds good. Fred Pulse Generator and Flat Transmission Line Info: http://www.avtechpulse.com/ http://www.avtechpulse.com/catalog/page076_cat11_av-lz_rev2.pdf HTML version: http://www.avtechpulse.com/catalog/page076_cat11_av-lz_rev2.html ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
>  
> FWIW.  75 ohm coax runs about 65 picofarad/ meter and 0.43 microhenry/meter
> with a 0.66 c propagation velocity (~5.0 nanosecond/meter).
>
> 50% mechanical efficiency a 1.0 meter long section of 75 ohm coax terminated with a
> 75 ohm "light bulb" pulsed with a string of 60 volt "spikes" at 20 watts/kg force on 1.0 kg mass
> where the Hypocharge of the length of cable (*Q coax ) = CV  coulombs
> and (*Q earth)  ~ = 13 coulombs:
>
> 20 = V^2/150  Then V = 55 volts and current I 55/150 =0.365 amperes.
>
Switching to a low impedance (1.0 ohms and up) flat transmission line is possible too.
 
DuPont Kapton  (polyimide  -269 to + 400 C, dielectric constant 3.4 ) is rugged
and has advantages for forming the pulse line/s on
the walls of your craft as though you were decorating it with wallpaper. 
A 12 ohm line sounds good.
 
Fred
 
Pulse Generator and Flat Transmission  Line Info:
 
 
 
HTML version:
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 04:46:24 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k33BkApw028390; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 04:46:14 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k33Bk8dp028370; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 04:46:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 04:46:08 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=ZE37J0tfdoXWh6SOlJ5yrDXQF9liDkNFOj4t3BVJ9LPKMu3rOAnyd1msvyyIQIWa; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006413114555860@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 05:45:55 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94051ea512074f2f32dfdecbf8ecec141cc350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.167 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67374 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Flat Line Calculator: http://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedia/calmstrip.cfm Coax Calculator: http://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedia/calcoax.cfm The Works: http://users.telenet.be/educypedia/electronics/electroniccalculatorstrans.htm As Frank Z says . "Enjoy" Never Build What You Can Buy Cheaper. Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/3/2006 4:40:36 AM Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields > > FWIW. 75 ohm coax runs about 65 picofarad/ meter and 0.43 microhenry/meter > with a 0.66 c propagation velocity (~5.0 nanosecond/meter). > > 50% mechanical efficiency a 1.0 meter long section of 75 ohm coax terminated with a > 75 ohm "light bulb" pulsed with a string of 60 volt "spikes" at 20 watts/kg force on 1.0 kg mass > where the Hypocharge of the length of cable (*Q coax ) = CV coulombs > and (*Q earth) ~ = 13 coulombs: > > 20 = V^2/150 Then V = 55 volts and current I 55/150 =0.365 amperes. > Switching to a low impedance (1.0 ohms and up) flat transmission line is possible too. DuPont Kapton (polyimide -269 to + 400 C, dielectric constant 3.4 ) is rugged and has advantages for forming the pulse line/s on the walls of your craft as though you were decorating it with wallpaper. A 12 ohm line sounds good. Fred Pulse Generator and Flat Transmission Line Info: http://www.avtechpulse.com/ http://www.avtechpulse.com/catalog/page076_cat11_av-lz_rev2.pdf HTML version: http://www.avtechpulse.com/catalog/page076_cat11_av-lz_rev2.html ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
 
The Works:
 
 
As Frank Z says .  "Enjoy"
 
Never Build What You Can Buy Cheaper.
 
Fred
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/3/2006 4:40:36 AM
Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields

>  
> FWIW.  75 ohm coax runs about 65 picofarad/ meter and 0.43 microhenry/meter
> with a 0.66 c propagation velocity (~5.0 nanosecond/meter).
>
> 50% mechanical efficiency a 1.0 meter long section of 75 ohm coax terminated with a
> 75 ohm "light bulb" pulsed with a string of 60 volt "spikes" at 20 watts/kg force on 1.0 kg mass
> where the Hypocharge of the length of cable (*Q coax ) = CV  coulombs
> and (*Q earth)  ~ = 13 coulombs:
>
> 20 = V^2/150  Then V = 55 volts and current I 55/150 =0.365 amperes.
>
Switching to a low impedance (1.0 ohms and up) flat transmission line is possible too.
 
DuPont Kapton  (polyimide  -269 to + 400 C, dielectric constant 3.4 ) is rugged
and has advantages for forming the pulse line/s on
the walls of your craft as though you were decorating it with wallpaper. 
A 12 ohm line sounds good.
 
Fred
 
Pulse Generator and Flat Transmission  Line Info:
 
 
 
HTML version:
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 05:44:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k33CiWYd018601; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 05:44:32 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k33CiVIs018587; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 05:44:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 05:44:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2006-03-10) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.5 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Message-ID: <000a01c6571c$5460d210$af037841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: Re: Paper published Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 07:44:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C656F2.6A97DE90" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67375 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C656F2.6A97DE90 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0007_01C656F2.6A97DE90" ------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C656F2.6A97DE90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankGrimer wrote, >There are certain advantages is being a quasi modo in the=20 cathedral of EM. I suppose being a heretic would be more fun if I had ever been baptised in the EM church - but then perhaps I would have never seen the looniness of loops. Howdy Frank, Not so loony loops if you follow the mobius strip theme. After all, = baptizing a loop donut in coffee can make for a soggy theory if the loop = slips between cup and lip and lands in your lap which seldom happens to = T.Blair. One needs only to study why a charge is positive or negative to = question why anyone would consider a loop de loop. I prefer the cake = donuts with the handle because there is something to grasp. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C656F2.6A97DE90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Grimer wrote,
 
>There are certain advantages is being a quasi modo in the =
cathedral=20 of EM.

I suppose being a heretic would be more fun if I had ever = been
baptised in=20 the EM church - but then perhaps I would have never
seen the = looniness of=20 loops.

Howdy Frank,

Not so loony loops if you follow the mobius strip theme. After = all,=20 baptizing a loop donut in coffee can make for a soggy theory if=20 the loop slips between cup and lip and lands in your lap which = seldom=20 happens to T.Blair. One needs only to study why a charge is positive or = negative=20 to question why anyone would consider a loop de loop. I prefer the cake = donuts=20 with the handle because there is something to grasp.

Richard

------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C656F2.6A97DE90-- ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C656F2.6A97DE90 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000501c6571c$535a1070$af037841@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C656F2.6A97DE90-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 07:26:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k33EPv2v029587; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 07:25:58 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k33EPuNU029574; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 07:25:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 07:25:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 10:25:52 -0400 Message-Id: <8C82541A5792752-2270-155AF@mblkn-m06.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <8C824A638438881-142C-1891@mblk-d51.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <8C824A638438881-142C-1891@mblk-d51.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Gold nano particles = resonant hydrino catalyst? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.70 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k33EPsw5029552 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67376 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: fznidarsic@aol.com Thank you Terry. Actually it is 1.094 megahertz-meters.It rounds nicely to one. I just got out a paper on the subject. http://www.wbabin.net/ I have been trying to get this paper out on a main stream journal for 10 years. <><><><><><><> Okay, the complete link is: http://www.wbabin.net/science/znidarsic2.pdf When I first went there, it wasn't obvious there were hyperlinks. I have d/l the paper and will have a go at it. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 07:37:35 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k33EbEd8002011; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 07:37:14 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k33EbCDs001979; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 07:37:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 07:37:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 10:37:06 -0400 Message-Id: <8C8254337046472-2270-15633@mblkn-m06.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <2.2.32.20060402204153.009fe910@pop.freeserve.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.20060402204153.009fe910@pop.freeserve.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: BP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.70 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67377 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Grimer What might appropriately be called Financial Jounce - the precursor of Financial Bounce perhaps, eh! 8-) <><><><><><> Which my wife does proficiently with her cheques! Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 08:11:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k33FBcsT019565; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 08:11:38 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k33FBb5R019547; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 08:11:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 08:11:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 11:11:32 -0400 Message-Id: <8C82548069E9F52-2270-15771@mblkn-m06.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <040a01c656ca$0a28b3e0$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <040a01c656ca$0a28b3e0$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: T.S.E. speaks... Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.70 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k33FBZ03019520 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67378 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene Now that April, the "cruelest month" is getting off to a uneventful start - better get ready for the worst, in TSE fashion: Ruination Day, 2006.  <><><><><><><> Well, that is just what we need according to University of Texas professor Eric Pianka: http://story.seguingazette.com/ Save the world, but kill 90% of the naked apes. Can anyone say Illuminati? Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 08:16:16 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k33FFwnO022561; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 08:15:59 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k33FFu64022533; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 08:15:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 08:15:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=QXA4xNGlu1pc7ojXXEt9IxSOKE1UelJBj0jdyAvKRcAPlPMtsPABpOqoQfTLa1gw; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006413151544557@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 09:15:44 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9402fe9136c0ec98b5b0a4517209b4cfdbd350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.49 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67379 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Using this flat transmission line impedance calculator an 18 inch wide strip of Sheldahl "Novaclad" with 90 mill thick polyimide K = 3.4 dielectric (3.37 effective) has an impedance of 1.0 ohms. Meaning the "light bulb" hot resistance will also have to be 1.0 ohms. giving a capacitance of 5.96e-9 farad/meter And a pulse propagation velocity of 1.676e8 meters/second (0.558 c ). The ~ 6.0 nanosecond/meter pulse velocity will limit the PRF to about 1.0e8/sec (100 MHz) and the peak pulse voltage to about 30 Kilovolts. Meaning that a roll of one side copper-coated material can be used for wallpaper on the inside surface of the metal shell of your craft. Narrower strips decorated with strange symbols can be used as borders, which might explain the strange "hieroglyphics" of the Roswell wreckage. http://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedia/calmstrip.cfm http://www.sheldahl.com/Product/bulletins/g2300.pdf "Sheldahl Novaclad products use a proprietary deposition process to join polyimide film and copper. " Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/3/2006 4:40:36 AM Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields > > FWIW. 75 ohm coax runs about 65 picofarad/ meter and 0.43 microhenry/meter > with a 0.66 c propagation velocity (~5.0 nanosecond/meter). > > 50% mechanical efficiency a 1.0 meter long section of 75 ohm coax terminated with a > 75 ohm "light bulb" pulsed with a string of 60 volt "spikes" at 20 watts/kg force on 1.0 kg mass > where the Hypocharge of the length of cable (*Q coax ) = CV coulombs > and (*Q earth) ~ = 13 coulombs: > > 20 = V^2/150 Then V = 55 volts and current I 55/150 =0.365 amperes. > Switching to a low impedance (1.0 ohms and up) flat transmission line is possible too. DuPont Kapton (polyimide -269 to + 400 C, dielectric constant 3.4 ) is rugged and has advantages for forming the pulse line/s on the walls of your craft as though you were decorating it with wallpaper. A 12 ohm line sounds good. Fred Pulse Generator and Flat Transmission Line Info: http://www.avtechpulse.com/ http://www.avtechpulse.com/catalog/page076_cat11_av-lz_rev2.pdf HTML version: http://www.avtechpulse.com/catalog/page076_cat11_av-lz_rev2.html ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Using this flat transmission line impedance calculator an 18 inch wide
strip of Sheldahl  "Novaclad" with 90 mill thick polyimide
K = 3.4 dielectric (3.37 effective) has an impedance of 1.0 ohms.
Meaning the "light bulb" hot resistance will also have to be 1.0 ohms.
giving a capacitance of 5.96e-9 farad/meter  And a pulse propagation
velocity of 1.676e8 meters/second (0.558 c ). The ~ 6.0 nanosecond/meter
pulse velocity will limit the PRF to about 1.0e8/sec (100 MHz) and the peak
pulse voltage to about 30 Kilovolts.
Meaning that a roll of one side copper-coated material can be used for
wallpaper on the inside surface of the metal shell of your craft.
Narrower strips decorated with strange symbols can be used as borders,
which might explain the strange "hieroglyphics" of the Roswell wreckage.
 
 
 
"Sheldahl Novaclad products use a proprietary deposition process to join polyimide film and copper. "
 
Fred
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/3/2006 4:40:36 AM
Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields

>  
> FWIW.  75 ohm coax runs about 65 picofarad/ meter and 0.43 microhenry/meter
> with a 0.66 c propagation velocity (~5.0 nanosecond/meter).
>
> 50% mechanical efficiency a 1.0 meter long section of 75 ohm coax terminated with a
> 75 ohm "light bulb" pulsed with a string of 60 volt "spikes" at 20 watts/kg force on 1.0 kg mass
> where the Hypocharge of the length of cable (*Q coax ) = CV  coulombs
> and (*Q earth)  ~ = 13 coulombs:
>
> 20 = V^2/150  Then V = 55 volts and current I 55/150 =0.365 amperes.
>
Switching to a low impedance (1.0 ohms and up) flat transmission line is possible too.
 
DuPont Kapton  (polyimide  -269 to + 400 C, dielectric constant 3.4 ) is rugged
and has advantages for forming the pulse line/s on
the walls of your craft as though you were decorating it with wallpaper. 
A 12 ohm line sounds good.
 
Fred
 
Pulse Generator and Flat Transmission  Line Info:
 
 
 
HTML version:
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 10:48:50 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k33Hmde3006211; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 10:48:40 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k33HmaqU006186; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 10:48:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 10:48:36 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 10:48:36 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: "hot ice" in 1KV/mm e-field Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67380 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I missed this one from August last year: nano-scale "Hot" ice films caused by 1KV/mm electric field http://chem3.snu.ac.kr/~surfion/Himage/pdf/2005_PRL(freezing%20transition).pdf In an STM microscope under water, apparently a solid ice barrier appears whenever the e-field strength between the tip and a gold surface is around 1KV/mm. They note that this is far below the 1MV/mm field predicted from simulations (1MV/mm is needed to force water to freeze as aligned dipoles in cubical array.) So water itself is "electrorheological?" 1KV/mm is not that large, so spontaneous-formed "hot ice" should occur naturally in many nano-scale situations. Shades of Polywater! Also, ice is an insulator, so such a "dielectric layer" created by strong e-fields might be expected to appear in the Helmholtz layer on metal surfaces and cause interesting nano-phenomena in electrolysis setups. Interesting paper, but I'd like to have seen a plot of the ice-forming e-field threshold versus initial temperature. As the temperature of the experiment is lowered, the e-field needed to create "hot ice" should drop, and it might vary in an interesting way. If it doesn't vary, then as with the Polywater controversy, the film may actually be some sort of gel network or other contamination, and not purely water. By coincidence, last August I wrote the below. (So, if we could make small rings of ice with strong internal e-field from an "electret" water effect, would the polarization persist, and the ice rings remain frozen at high temperature?) :) > http://amasci.com/news.html > More randomness. In the Vasserfadden demo below, how thin could the > water thread become? I should think that e-field forces would cause it > to resist evaporation, as with > http://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/snowcrystals/electric/electric.htm > electric ice needles. The water filament would be like an electret. > But if the thread broke, would it contract to form a droplet, or would > the applied e-field preserve the threadlike form? If it stayed > threadlike, this means we could build a network, an aerogel, from > nothing but water. The threads would be maintained by the strong > e-field (unless closed loops of electrified water filaments are also > stable, so the external power supply could be removed.) An > electrically-stablized aerogel made from water vapor would possibly > explain the observation of http://amasci.com/weird/unusual/e-wall.html > invisible wall phenomena. > > The Wasserfadden experiment > http://amasci.com/freenrg/wasser.txt > > Giant natural water-thread? > http://amasci.com/weird/unusual/wasser.txt ((((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( (o) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty http://staff.washington.edu/wbeaty/ Research Engineer UW Chem Dept, Bagley Hall RM74 beaty@chem.washington.edu Box 351700, Seattle, WA 98195-1700 ph:206-543-6195 fax:206-685-8665 From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 10:56:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k33Hucc0009454; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 10:56:38 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k33HuaSC009428; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 10:56:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 10:56:36 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 10:56:35 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: June 7-10, SSE 25th Annual Meeting (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII; DELSP=yes; FORMAT=flowed Content-ID: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67381 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I'll probably be attending this... (((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty http://staff.washington.edu/wbeaty/ beaty@chem.washington.edu Research Engineer billb@amasci.com UW Chem Dept, Bagley Hall RM74 206-543-6195 Box 351700, Seattle, WA 98195-1700 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 02:27:36 +0900 From: Marty Cawthon To: sse-members@scientificexploration.org Subject: [SSE-members] Society for Scientific Exploration 25th Annual Meeting Hello fellow SSE members, The Society for Scientific Exploration (SSE) will celebrate its Twenty-Fifth Annual Meeting in Orem, Utah on June 7-10, 2006 (Thursday through Saturday). A Registration Form is attached to the bottom of this message. [PDF ATTACHEMENT WAS REMOVED] Also it can be downloaded from the SSE homepage: http://www.scientificExploration.org Print it, fill it out, and mail or fax it as instructed on the form. SCHEDULE An opening reception will be held at the hotel on Wednesday evening, June 7, from 6pm-9pm. The first session will begin Thursday morning and run through Saturday. Friday afternoon is an optional "social excursion". The closing banquet will be held on Saturday evening. A Sunday morning visit to Salt Lake City to hear the weekly broadcast of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir is available by special arrangement to SSE conference attendees. CONFERENCE THEME: "25 Years of Progress: What have we learned?" 2-1/2 Days of talks and presentations. Invited speakers include: * Larry Dossey on "Thinking the Unthinkable" in medicine and healing * Erin Elster on advances in chiropractic healing * Jim Tucker on progress in reincarnation research * James DeMeo on experimental evidence challenging conventional physics * Harry Oldfield on measuring human auras and energy fields * The Dinsdale Award recipient presentation * Local arrangements are coordinated by SSE member John MacLean. * York Dobyns chairs the Program Committee. FRIDAY AFTERNOON SOCIAL EXCURSION An excursion is planned for a half-day on Friday June 9th to the Utah Winter Olympic Park. A box lunch will be provided for the trip to the Village and a BBQ will also be held for all excursion attendees at Nunn's park in the Provo Canyon adjacent to scenic Bridal Veil Falls on the way back to the hotel. The excursion space is limited so register early and reserve your space today. The Olympic Park is above 7000 feet in elevation so a light jacket may be needed in June. The cost is $40 and includes the bus tour, museums, viewing of Olympic training sites. If you want to ride the zipline or bobsled you must pay an extra charge (details at the meeting). SUNDAY MORNING MORMON TABERNACLE CHOIR BROADCAST The Mormon Tabernacle Choir celebrated 75 years of continuous weekly broadcasting in 2005 - the longest running broadcast in America. SSE conference attendees have an opportunity to attend the weekly broadcast on Sunday June 11, courtesy of the SSE Conference Orem Team. The cost, if any, is minimal. You must be in your seats at 9:00 AM Sunday morning (the SSE conference hotel is about 40 miles South of Salt Lake City). The broadcast runs from 9:30 to 10:00. Afterwards you will have time to tour the Mormon Conference Center, view the artwork, and visit Temple Square, and still be able to catch an afternoon flight. If you are interested, please indicate on the SSE Conference Registration Form and details will be arranged at the conference. CONFERENCE HOTEL Hampton Inn and Suites 851 West 1250 South Orem, Utah 84058 Telephone: 801-426-8500 Fax: 801-456-8700 http://www.hamptoninn.com/en/hp/hotels/index.jhtml?ctyhocn=PVUORHX A block of rooms has been reserved for the SSE. Ask for the SSE block when making reservations. SSE room rates are $65/night standard (sleeps up to 4) $89/night suite (kitchen, sleeps up to 6). These SSE rates are available from June 7 to June 10. TRANSPORTATION - AIRLINES Orem is served by "Salt Lake City Airport" (SLC). Orem is about 40 miles south of SLC. SLC is served by the following airlines: Delta http://www.delta.com/ Southwest http://www.southwest.com American http://www.aa.com Northwest http://www.nwa.com Frontier http://www.frontierAirlines.com America West http://www.AmericaWest.com JetBlue http://www.jetblue.com United http://www.ual.com Continental http://www.continental.com TRANSPORTATION - GROUND - SHUTTLE Shuttle Service from SLC to Orem: Express Shuttle 1-800-397-0773 With reservations, shuttles leave every hour, on the hour. At present, prices are $35 one-way for the first person and $14 for each additional person. The shuttles are 7-passenger vans. (See RIDE SHARING below) TRANSPORTATION - GROUND - CAR RENTAL You might want to rent a car because there are scenic side trips in the Orem area. Car rental is available at SLC. Advance reservation will probably get you a better rate. TRANSPORTATION = GROUND - RIDE SHARING If you would like to participate in "ride sharing" from SLC to the SSE conference hotel in Orem, please send an email message to: macleanelaine@comcast.net Please write "SSE Ridesharing" in the subject of the message. MacLean will send information to all who sent emails regarding arrival times and transportation mode. With this information SSE conference attendees can contact each other to make the arrangements. This is shaping up to be another interesting and exciting conference. I hope to see you in Orem Utah! Marty Cawthon Information Officer Society for Scientific Exploration http://www.scientificExploration.org From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 11:49:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k33InE5u032763; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 11:49:14 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k33InDWs032750; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 11:49:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 11:49:13 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Sender: jack@mail3.centurytel.net Message-ID: <44316C36.3BEA697D@centurytel.net> Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 18:40:54 +0000 From: "Taylor J. Smith" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-Caldera (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: T.S.E. speaks... References: <040a01c656ca$0a28b3e0$6401a8c0@NuDell> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67382 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones Beene wrote: > > Now that April, the "cruelest month" is getting off to a > uneventful start - better get ready for the worst, in TSE fashion: > Ruination Day, 2006. Hi All, The bad day that sticks in my mind is April 19 -- Waco and the Kansas City bombing; but a lot of bad stuff seems to happen at about that time. Does Nature drive us insane, or does our insanity find a reflection in Nature? Either way "Those whom the gods would destroy they first make mad." Jack Smith From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 12:36:35 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k33JaIx6020788; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 12:36:22 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k33JaHdt020774; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 12:36:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 12:36:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 12:36:16 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex Subject: Re: A Fool's Paradise is ... In-Reply-To: <023f01c655a7$a7bb09b0$6401a8c0@NuDell> Message-ID: References: <023f01c655a7$a7bb09b0$6401a8c0@NuDell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67383 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sat, 1 Apr 2006, Jones Beene wrote: > After getting a Sat.morning ROTL ride from reading the compendium > of April 1 stories on Sterling Allan's site: > http://freeenergynews.com/ For a huge list of April Fool sites and articles, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_1,_2006 (((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-789-0775 unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 12:48:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k33Jlc5k025089; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 12:47:39 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k33JlXlB025046; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 12:47:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 12:47:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=j6JmQCS4wDBpTBauVt33aVS4AAxYFslVek0zcpKz0ySi1QxidcR4mdub6Dj3A6C7; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006413194721926@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 13:47:21 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94043f4488a976a34a32cd11aa551b62c63350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.225 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67384 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Getting closer to the facts. Thanks to Bill's website: http://www.amasci.com/freenrg/antigrav.html Note the data on Pages 12 and 13 for parallel Plate capacitors. http://www.space-mixing-theory.com/article2.pdf ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/3/2006 9:16:37 AM Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Using this flat transmission line impedance calculator an 18 inch wide strip of Sheldahl "Novaclad" with 90 mill thick polyimide K = 3.4 dielectric (3.37 effective) has an impedance of 1.0 ohms. Meaning the "light bulb" hot resistance will also have to be 1.0 ohms. giving a capacitance of 5.96e-9 farad/meter And a pulse propagation velocity of 1.676e8 meters/second (0.558 c ). The ~ 6.0 nanosecond/meter pulse velocity will limit the PRF to about 1.0e8/sec (100 MHz) and the peak pulse voltage to about 30 Kilovolts. Meaning that a roll of one side copper-coated material can be used for wallpaper on the inside surface of the metal shell of your craft. Narrower strips decorated with strange symbols can be used as borders, which might explain the strange "hieroglyphics" of the Roswell wreckage. http://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedia/calmstrip.cfm http://www.sheldahl.com/Product/bulletins/g2300.pdf "Sheldahl Novaclad products use a proprietary deposition process to join polyimide film and copper. " Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/3/2006 4:40:36 AM Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields > > FWIW. 75 ohm coax runs about 65 picofarad/ meter and 0.43 microhenry/meter > with a 0.66 c propagation velocity (~5.0 nanosecond/meter). > > 50% mechanical efficiency a 1.0 meter long section of 75 ohm coax terminated with a > 75 ohm "light bulb" pulsed with a string of 60 volt "spikes" at 20 watts/kg force on 1.0 kg mass > where the Hypocharge of the length of cable (*Q coax ) = CV coulombs > and (*Q earth) ~ = 13 coulombs: > > 20 = V^2/150 Then V = 55 volts and current I 55/150 =0.365 amperes. > Switching to a low impedance (1.0 ohms and up) flat transmission line is possible too. DuPont Kapton (polyimide -269 to + 400 C, dielectric constant 3.4 ) is rugged and has advantages for forming the pulse line/s on the walls of your craft as though you were decorating it with wallpaper. A 12 ohm line sounds good. Fred Pulse Generator and Flat Transmission Line Info: http://www.avtechpulse.com/ http://www.avtechpulse.com/catalog/page076_cat11_av-lz_rev2.pdf HTML version: http://www.avtechpulse.com/catalog/page076_cat11_av-lz_rev2.html ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Getting closer to the facts. Thanks to Bill's website:
 
 
Note the data on Pages 12 and 13 for parallel Plate capacitors.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/3/2006 9:16:37 AM
Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields

Using this flat transmission line impedance calculator an 18 inch wide
strip of Sheldahl  "Novaclad" with 90 mill thick polyimide
K = 3.4 dielectric (3.37 effective) has an impedance of 1.0 ohms.
Meaning the "light bulb" hot resistance will also have to be 1.0 ohms.
giving a capacitance of 5.96e-9 farad/meter  And a pulse propagation
velocity of 1.676e8 meters/second (0.558 c ). The ~ 6.0 nanosecond/meter
pulse velocity will limit the PRF to about 1.0e8/sec (100 MHz) and the peak
pulse voltage to about 30 Kilovolts.
Meaning that a roll of one side copper-coated material can be used for
wallpaper on the inside surface of the metal shell of your craft.
Narrower strips decorated with strange symbols can be used as borders,
which might explain the strange "hieroglyphics" of the Roswell wreckage.
 
 
 
"Sheldahl Novaclad products use a proprietary deposition process to join polyimide film and copper. "
 
Fred
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/3/2006 4:40:36 AM
Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields

>  
> FWIW.  75 ohm coax runs about 65 picofarad/ meter and 0.43 microhenry/meter
> with a 0.66 c propagation velocity (~5.0 nanosecond/meter).
>
> 50% mechanical efficiency a 1.0 meter long section of 75 ohm coax terminated with a
> 75 ohm "light bulb" pulsed with a string of 60 volt "spikes" at 20 watts/kg force on 1.0 kg mass
> where the Hypocharge of the length of cable (*Q coax ) = CV  coulombs
> and (*Q earth)  ~ = 13 coulombs:
>
> 20 = V^2/150  Then V = 55 volts and current I 55/150 =0.365 amperes.
>
Switching to a low impedance (1.0 ohms and up) flat transmission line is possible too.
 
DuPont Kapton  (polyimide  -269 to + 400 C, dielectric constant 3.4 ) is rugged
and has advantages for forming the pulse line/s on
the walls of your craft as though you were decorating it with wallpaper. 
A 12 ohm line sounds good.
 
Fred
 
Pulse Generator and Flat Transmission  Line Info:
 
 
 
HTML version:
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 16:46:53 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k33NkWaE029957; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 16:46:33 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k33NkU6T029935; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 16:46:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 16:46:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=XZ/n+Kt0lo32TRqnagc8jFxLDBE7EBX//t0uySlo3ArQfCzUSkihBN+aC2XIeN9G; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006413234619729@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 17:46:19 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9409501f1ef07b0d4ba223ae0d06e823c64350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.79 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67385 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII This was a first class scientific experiment. http://www.space-mixing-theory.com/article2.pdf Single Charged Plates: Plate 1, 186.9 grams/680 cm^2 = 0.275 grams/cm^2 Plate 2, 38.4 grams/130 cm^2 = 0.295 grams/cm^2 Plate 3, 11.9 grams/40 cm^2 = 0.298 grams/cm^2 The anomalous attraction toward the earth by plate 1 when it was at a positive potential tends to support my contention that electrons are antimatter wrt. protons/quarks, and with positive charge attract matter. The 186.9 grams being 4.7 times the mass of plate 2 and 15.7 times the mass of plate 3 would account for the attraction while positive but repelling when negative, while the lighter plates repelled with either positive or negative charge. The experiment didn't take into account/mention the vacuum/air capacitance between the plates and the earth, etc, further supporting the earth's PPredominately Positive "Hypocharge" (~ est 13 coulombs at the surface) which dwarfs the earth's electron "Hypocharge" by a factor of at least 4,000. Parallel Plate Capacitors: The experiments tend to support the "Hypocharge" in the "stressed" dielectric hypothesis, but, the application of pulsed capacitance (using coaxial or flat transmission lines) needs to be tried. Since the experiments were also performed in a faraday cage, the contention that "Hypocharge" is oblivious to regular electrostatic shielding. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
This was a first class scientific experiment.
 
 
 
Single Charged Plates:
 
Plate 1, 186.9 grams/680 cm^2  = 0.275 grams/cm^2
Plate 2,  38.4 grams/130 cm^2  =  0.295 grams/cm^2
Plate 3,   11.9 grams/40 cm^2   =  0.298 grams/cm^2
 
The anomalous attraction toward the earth by plate 1 when it was
at a positive potential tends to support my contention that
electrons are antimatter wrt. protons/quarks, and with positive
charge attract matter. The 186.9 grams being 4.7 times the mass of
plate 2 and 15.7 times the mass of plate 3 would account
for the attraction while positive but repelling when negative, while
the lighter plates repelled with either positive or negative charge.
The experiment didn't take into account/mention the vacuum/air
capacitance between the plates and the earth, etc, further supporting the
earth's PPredominately Positive "Hypocharge" (~  est 13 coulombs at the surface)
which dwarfs the earth's electron "Hypocharge" by a factor of
at least 4,000.
 
Parallel Plate Capacitors:
 
The experiments tend to support the "Hypocharge" in the "stressed" dielectric hypothesis,
but, the application of pulsed capacitance (using coaxial or flat transmission lines)
needs to be tried.
Since the experiments were also performed in a faraday cage, the contention that "Hypocharge"
is oblivious to regular electrostatic shielding.
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 3 23:10:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k346Abjh013639; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 23:10:37 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k346AY1q013596; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 23:10:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 23:10:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <44320DB6.4000202@usfamily.net> Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 01:09:58 -0500 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: T.S.E. speaks... References: <040a01c656ca$0a28b3e0$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C82548069E9F52-2270-15771@mblkn-m06.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C82548069E9F52-2270-15771@mblkn-m06.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67386 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Terry posted; > > Well, that is just what we need according to University of Texas > professor Eric Pianka: > > http://story.seguingazette.com/ > > Save the world, but kill 90% of the naked apes. > > Can anyone say Illuminati? No, Secular Humanism carried to it's logical conclusion. Professor Pianka loves reptiles more than humans.His speach sure gave the Talkers on conservative radio some grist for the mill. --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 05:38:34 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k34CcIbp023649; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 05:38:18 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k34CcHNb023630; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 05:38:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 05:38:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=tX2vNTe2jxauksvr9SE1MIUi/5NJ/a07h9sYPyjtrWNOAc4Gp3/x6E546QmUzvhn; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200642412388605@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 06:38:08 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940a3e7281f2defb760aac485eb560f677e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.10 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67387 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >From the data obtained in his capacitor charge experiment, Buehler's calculation gave a value of 0.47 newton "AG" force per Joule "stored" in the capacitor whether the dielectric was air or bee's wax. http://www.space-mixing-theory.com/article2.pdf This squares with the 20 joules per kilogram force that is required for 1.0 kilogram weightlessness, plus the 1/2 mv^2 joule, kinetic energy requirement. The metallized film capacitors offer a convenient way of either storing or cycling (rapid charge-discharge) of the stored energy Metallized Kapton (2.0 mil polyimide film) with K ~ 3.4, at about 6.0e-6 farad per square meter could "store" 20 joules per square meter at about 8,000 volts OTOH, pulsing/(rapid cycling) with matched resistive load could substantially lower the voltage requirement. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
From the data obtained in his capacitor charge experiment, Buehler's calculation
gave a value of 0.47 newton "AG"  force per Joule "stored" in the capacitor whether
the dielectric was air or bee's wax.
 
 
This squares with the 20 joules per kilogram force that is required for
1.0 kilogram weightlessness, plus the 1/2 mv^2  joule, kinetic energy requirement.
 
The metallized film capacitors offer a convenient way of either storing
or cycling  (rapid charge-discharge) of the stored energy
 
Metallized Kapton (2.0 mil polyimide film) with K ~ 3.4, at about  6.0e-6 farad 
per square meter could "store" 20 joules per square meter  at about 8,000 volts
 
OTOH, pulsing/(rapid cycling) with matched resistive load could
substantially lower the voltage requirement.
 
Fred
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 07:33:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k34EWuV1015587; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 07:32:56 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k34EWsbm015540; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 07:32:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 07:32:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <002301c657f4$a64c8ff0$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <410-2200642412388605@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 07:32:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0020_01C657B9.F952B070" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: <2XsSlB.A.lyD.WOoMEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67388 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C657B9.F952B070 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fred, If you are going to pulse a capacitor through a resistive load to = achieve anti-gravity, then you might as well make that load itself an = "active" load. http://www.geocities.com/pyrazoresearch/ Synergy?? JOnes ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C657B9.F952B070 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Fred,
 
If you are going to pulse a capacitor = through a=20 resistive load to achieve anti-gravity, then you might as well make that = load=20 itself an "active" load.
 
http://www.geocities.co= m/pyrazoresearch/
 
Synergy??
 
JOnes
------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C657B9.F952B070-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 08:04:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k34F4As9031778; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 08:04:10 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k34F49iq031756; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 08:04:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 08:04:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <004601c657f9$03ba44d0$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <410-2200642412388605@earthlink.net> <002301c657f4$a64c8ff0$6401a8c0@NuDell> Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 08:04:03 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0043_01C657BE.56E1D000" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67389 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C657BE.56E1D000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oops... Previous post went out too soon. That interesting citation for the torus AG unit came from the = electrogavity forum, mentioned previously by Colin. In addtion to that there is a cross-post with reference to one of Fred's = favorite laws... The Biot-Savart law (Laplace-Ampere) states Magnetic Flux (measured in Tesla=3DWeber/area=3DVolt.time=3DEnergy/Current) to be = dB=3DuoidL/(4Pi.r^2) from B=3Duo.qv/4Pi.r^2. The fine structure unification between the electromagnetic alpha=3D2Pi.k.e^2/hc =20 and the gravitational=20 alpha 2Pi.Gm^2/hc then modifies this law as =20 B=3DMw/2R.c^2. {Example: The earth's magnetic field approximates as 3x10^-5 Tesla (0.3 gauss) for a core-mantle differential rotation. Mcore=3Ddensitycore. Vcore~9x10^22 kg and=20 Rcore~1.2x10^6 m and w=3D2Pi/86,400} Here M becomes the unitised mass of the rotating system of angular velocity w and a displacement radius R. In the post below the rotation rate is said to be so 6500 cycles per minute and so w=3D2Pi.f~680 radians per second. The magnetic flux then is a function approximated by B~[3.8x10^-15]M/R). So B increases for a given radius with the gravitomagnetic mass in a selfinduction. Generally, a rotating cosmic body of mass M and spinrate w selfinduces a gravitomagnetic field in analogy to the laws of Maxwell, Faraday and Lenz in a form of B=3DMw/2R.c^2." And this from another message: "So Biot-Savart transforms into B=3DMw/2c^2.Ru and Ru some unification radius in concentric shells. So as example we compute the magnetic field for the earth. This formula predicts that this B will not only change with depth but to depend on the spinrates of the shells under consideration. We presume a core-mantle differentiation with equatorial radius of 6.4x10^6 metres migrating to a core radius of say 1.2x10^6 metres. As the density increases towards the earth's centre we set Core-Mass=3DCore-Density.Core-Volume of say 9x10^22 kg, reduced from the overall mass of so 6x10^24 kg as function of the density. The earth's w=3D2p/Period=3D2pf=3D2p/3600.24)~1/13,751 revolutions per = second. Substituting gives Bearth as core-mantle differential=20 (9x10^22)/{(13751)2c^2*1.2x10^6} or so 3x10^-5 Tesla. Since 1 Tesla=3D10,000 gauss, the measured average of 0.3 gauss is obtained by this encompassing formulation, subject to perturbation methods. The formula also works for other planets and also galaxies and clusters as function of their mass and rotation rates. For ionised media such as stars and say Jupiter and Neptune, Biot Savart is modified, as the charge substitution is related to emission/absorption of masses, such as plasma and the Solar Wind. The formula so is most applicable for nonionised media." The magnetic field of the earth is about half a gauss. Tony derives it using only spin rate, mass, and a radius differential which perhaps acounts for your "imbalances", uncovering deep relationship between moving mass and gravity, moving charge and magnetism. All-in-all, this line of reaoning seems to be going somewhere - not sure = where just yet Jones ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C657BE.56E1D000 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Oops... Previous post went out too=20 soon.
 
That interesting citation for the torus = AG unit=20 came from the electrogavity forum, mentioned previously by = Colin.
 
In addtion to that there is a = cross-post with=20 reference to one of Fred's favorite laws...
 
 
The Biot-Savart law (Laplace-Ampere) states Magnetic Flux (measured = in
Tesla=3DWeber/area=3DVolt.time=3DEnergy/Current) to be =20 dB=3DuoidL/(4Pi.r^2)
from B=3Duo.qv/4Pi.r^2.

The fine = structure=20 unification between the electromagnetic
alpha=3D2Pi.k.e^2/hc  =
and the gravitational
alpha 2Pi.Gm^2/hc
then modifies this law as 
B=3DMw/2R.c^2.

{Example: The earth's magnetic field = approximates as=20 3x10^-5 Tesla
(0.3 gauss) for a core-mantle differential=20 rotation.

Mcore=3Ddensitycore.
Vcore~9x10^22 kg and
Rcore~1.2x10^6 m and w=3D2Pi/86,400}

Here M becomes  = the unitised=20 mass of the rotating system of angular
velocity w and a displacement = radius=20 R.

In the post below the rotation rate is said to be so 6500 = cycles=20 per
minute and so w=3D2Pi.f~680 radians per second.

The = magnetic flux=20 then is a function approximated by B~[3.8x10^-15]M/R).

So B = increases for=20 a given radius with the gravitomagnetic mass in=20 a
selfinduction.

Generally, a rotating cosmic body of mass M = and=20 spinrate w selfinduces
a gravitomagnetic field in analogy to the laws = of=20 Maxwell, Faraday and
Lenz in a form of B=3DMw/2R.c^2."

And = this from=20 another message:

"So Biot-Savart transforms into B=3DMw/2c^2.Ru = and Ru some=20 unification
radius in concentric shells.

So as example we = compute the=20 magnetic field for the earth.

This formula predicts that this B = will not=20 only change with depth but
to depend on the spinrates of the shells = under=20 consideration.

We presume a core-mantle differentiation with = equatorial=20 radius of
6.4x10^6 metres migrating to a core radius of say 1.2x10^6=20 metres.

As the density increases towards the earth's centre we=20 set
Core-Mass=3DCore-Density.Core-Volume of say 9x10^22 kg, reduced = from=20 the
overall mass of so 6x10^24 kg as function of the = density.

The=20 earth's w=3D2p/Period=3D2pf=3D2p/3600.24)~1/13,751 revolutions per=20 second.

Substituting gives Bearth as core-mantle differential =
(9x10^22)/{(13751)2c^2*1.2x10^6} or so 3x10^-5 Tesla.

Since = 1=20 Tesla=3D10,000 gauss, the measured average of 0.3 gauss is
obtained = by this=20 encompassing formulation, subject to perturbation
methods.

The = formula=20 also works for other planets and also galaxies and
clusters as = function of=20 their mass and rotation rates.

For ionised media such as stars = and say=20 Jupiter and Neptune, Biot
Savart is modified, as the charge = substitution is=20 related to
emission/absorption of masses, such as plasma and the = Solar=20 Wind.

The formula so is most applicable for nonionised = media."

The=20 magnetic field of the earth is about half a gauss. Tony derives = it
using only=20 spin rate, mass, and a radius differential which perhaps
acounts for = your=20 "imbalances", uncovering deep relationship between
moving mass and = gravity,=20 moving charge and magnetism.
 
 
All-in-all, this line of reaoning seems = to be going=20 somewhere - not sure where just yet
 
Jones









 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C657BE.56E1D000-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 08:25:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k34FOsHw010070; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 08:24:54 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k34FOr6A010055; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 08:24:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 08:24:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=B2I7+pCSWwJQh0k8cogoqdSgQ8URlb00+WulB8njvQkiTxsvHI8h39Y5PRHoBC+Q; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <418-2200642415243975@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 09:24:39 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940579c53b044a734f9e1649becd246cdc2350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.83 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67390 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Jones, If you happen to find a permanent magnet that you can spin at ~ 22,500 revolutions per second (1,350,000 RPM Accelerated B Field dv/dt = v^2/r) to create that Electrogravity/Hypocharge field let me know. :-) Fred ESA Experiment: http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEM0L6OVGJE_index_0.html Dr. Kelly's Spinning (Accelerated) Magnet Experiments: http://www.marmet.ca/louis/induction_faraday/kelly/KellyFa3.pdf ----- Original Message ----- From: Jones Beene To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 4/4/2006 8:33:39 AM Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Fred, If you are going to pulse a capacitor through a resistive load to achieve anti-gravity, then you might as well make that load itself an "active" load. http://www.geocities.com/pyrazoresearch/ Synergy?? Jones ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Jones,
 
If you happen to find a permanent magnet that you can spin at ~ 22,500 revolutions
per second (1,350,000 RPM Accelerated B Field dv/dt = v^2/r) to create
that Electrogravity/Hypocharge field let me know.  :-)
 
Fred
 
ESA Experiment:
 
 
Dr. Kelly's Spinning (Accelerated) Magnet Experiments:
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/4/2006 8:33:39 AM
Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields

Fred,
 
If you are going to pulse a capacitor through a resistive load to achieve anti-gravity, then you might as well make that load itself an "active" load.
 
 
Synergy??
 
Jones
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 08:47:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k34Fkkaa021104; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 08:46:46 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k34Fkbcc021035; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 08:46:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 08:46:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <005801c657fe$f20dacd0$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <418-2200642415243975@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 08:46:30 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67391 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred, > If you happen to find a permanent magnet that you can spin at ~ > 22,500 revolutions per second (1,350,000 RPM Accelerated B Field dv/dt = v^2/r) to create that Electrogravity/Hypocharge field let me know. Hmm... Carbon fiber coated with nickel-iron and magnetized in short repeating sections so that the poles change in resonance with the (toroidal winding spacing) might possibly permit a very large toroid (what was the diameter of that Roswell disk anyway) to be spun much slower, and still achieve the same "rate" of pole-changes (22,500/sec) but at much lower actual RPM. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 09:19:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k34GJcws004807; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 09:19:38 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k34GJaKj004766; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 09:19:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 09:19:36 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <007001c65803$8e3e94d0$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Subject: Accidental solar discovery Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 09:19:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67392 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ...teams of mathematicians have been trying to calculate the best theoretical curvature (of a mirror) for capturing and concentrating sunlight...millions of dollars have been spent in looking for the best curve for solar power gathering, since there is approximately 1KW of energy in every square meter of sunlight but tracking the sun precisely over a day is expensive, especially on two axes. However, the accidental discovery of "Marek's Curve" (named after this young lad [in the photo], http://www.geocities.com/earthdaysolar/Mareks_Curve_Solar.html who made the only solar car that worked in the full shade) was made at Sustainarama! http://www.geocities.com/earthdaysolar/solar_power_roadshow.html His car ran at a good speed using only reflected sunlight. In comparison, all the other solar cars required direct sunlight. What a discovery! It may even top the Stirling engine! Warning this site has limited bandwidth and was down yesterday... From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 09:27:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k34GR8Mv008344; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 09:27:08 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k34GR6mA008320; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 09:27:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 09:27:06 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 12:26:57 -0400 Message-Id: <8C8261BB9F8E9A8-86C-11D67@mblkn-m10.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <418-2200642415243975@earthlink.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <418-2200642415243975@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.74 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k34GR0cv008245 Resent-Message-ID: <4h7NxD.A.7BC.Y5pMEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67393 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Frederick Sparber Jones,   If you happen to find a permanent magnet that you can spin at ~ 22,500 revolutions per second (1,350,000 RPM Accelerated B Field dv/dt = v^2/r) to create that Electrogravity/Hypocharge field let me know.  :-) <><><><><><><> These babies would not require much modification: http://www.activepower.com/files/white_papers/AdvInFlywhlTech-4172001_452 25_PM.pdf http://tinyurl.com/ebp7j Hmmm, they kinda look like the Adamski saucer. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 09:37:16 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k34Gb4i3012547; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 09:37:04 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k34Gb2Cv012518; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 09:37:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 09:37:02 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 12:36:57 -0400 Message-Id: <8C8261D20003470-86C-11DC2@mblkn-m10.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <007001c65803$8e3e94d0$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <007001c65803$8e3e94d0$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Accidental solar discovery Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.74 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k34Gb0KW012484 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67394 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene Warning this site has limited bandwidth and was down yesterday...   <><><><><><><> Geocities allows 4.2 M per hour; so, wait an hour and try again. It is presently clogged. ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 10:18:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k34HId6R031317; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 10:18:40 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k34HIWB3031246; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 10:18:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 10:18:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 13:18:21 -0400 Message-Id: <8C82622E8664F36-2F10-9532@mblkn-m07.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <418-2200642415243975@earthlink.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <418-2200642415243975@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.71 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k34HIPHO031187 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67396 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Frederick Sparber Dr. Kelly's Spinning (Accelerated) Magnet Experiments:   http://www.marmet.ca/louis/induction_faraday/kelly/KellyFa3.pdf <><><><><><><> They sure missed a great opportunity to verify the Aspden Effect. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 10:24:19 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k34HKDeM032584; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 10:23:56 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k34GvweJ020983; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 09:57:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 09:57:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=eo5S7OSCd4X5/8LKhfxg14bZOLqI+qi0Nj+3TdQj0vQpgZ5pVYalOT86hoYBQvZm; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006424164854601@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 10:48:54 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9407b2953df48d2bebee68b715b34e8fbb4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.239 Resent-Message-ID: <2AQWM.A.zHF.VWqMEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67395 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones, You will grab carbon fiber straws while Buehler in his capacitor experiments achieved up to "18% weight reduction" with 0.47 joules /newton or 20 joule/kg force. Apparently using Electrical Polarizability to achieve weightlessness is easier than spinning a magnet (Polarized electron spins) to get the effect. http://www.space-mixing-theory.com/article2.pdf Fred > [Original Message] > From: Jones Beene > To: > Date: 4/4/2006 9:47:25 AM > Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields > > Fred, > > > If you happen to find a permanent magnet that you can spin at ~ > > 22,500 revolutions > per second (1,350,000 RPM Accelerated B Field dv/dt = v^2/r) to > create > that Electrogravity/Hypocharge field let me know. > > > Hmm... Carbon fiber coated with nickel-iron and magnetized in > short repeating sections so that the poles change in resonance > with the (toroidal winding spacing) might possibly permit a very > large toroid (what was the diameter of that Roswell disk anyway) > to be spun much slower, and still achieve the same "rate" of > pole-changes (22,500/sec) but at much lower actual RPM. > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 10:38:17 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k34Hc41N014878; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 10:38:05 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k34Hc369014853; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 10:38:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 10:38:03 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060404124443.03d23d90@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 12:46:43 -0400 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: OFF TOPIC Useless information Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67397 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Wednesday, April 5, 2006 at two minutes and three seconds after 1:00 in the morning the time and date American-style will be: 01-02-03-04-05-06 This will not happen again for a hundred years. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 10:46:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k34HjnGL020309; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 10:45:50 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k34HjmEo020289; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 10:45:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 10:45:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <009b01c6580f$99ed7e70$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <410-22006424164854601@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 10:45:44 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67398 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred, > You will grab carbon fiber straws while Buehler in his capacitor > experiments achieved up to "18% weight reduction" with 0.47 > joules /newton or 20 joule/kg force. I am convinced he, like dozens of others who have done similar experiments, is seeing only ion momentum transfer, or induced charge effects, or capacitive coupling effects... his protestations to the contrary notwithstanding. Put the thing in a vacuum and the effect goes away. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 11:14:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k34IEV4G001050; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 11:14:31 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k34IEOid000975; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 11:14:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 11:14:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 14:14:16 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C8262AB7F3E8E1-1428-B8EA@mblkn-m08.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Neutrinos are Catholic Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.72 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67399 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Because they have mass: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4862112.stm "Light shed on mysterious particle By Rebecca Morelle BBC News science reporter Physicists have confirmed that neutrinos, which are thought to have played a key role during the creation of the Universe, have mass. " ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 11:35:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k34IZajS009465; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 11:35:37 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k34IZYq4009443; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 11:35:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 11:35:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: "Mark Jordan" Organization: attached To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 15:35:08 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC Useless information Message-ID: <4432922C.24593.DE2043@enki.cpovo.net> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <7.0.1.0.2.20060404124443.03d23d90@mindspring.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.31) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Authenticated-Sender: enki@cpovo.net X-Spam-Processed: teta.cpovo.net, Tue, 04 Apr 2006 15:15:06 -0300 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-Lookup-Warning: HELO/EHLO lookup on 192.168.7.108 does not match 200.102.141.232 X-MDRemoteIP: 200.102.141.232 X-Return-Path: enki@cpovo.net X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-MDAV-Processed: teta.cpovo.net, Tue, 04 Apr 2006 15:15:09 -0300 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67400 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: It will happen again next month in several countries. On 4 Apr 2006 at 12:46, Jed Rothwell wrote: > On Wednesday, April 5, 2006 at two minutes and three seconds after 1:00 > in the morning the time and date American-style will be: > > 01-02-03-04-05-06 > > This will not happen again for a hundred years. > > - Jed > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 18:18:24 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k351IGHt027822; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 18:18:16 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k351IADr027778; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 18:18:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 18:18:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 21:18:14 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields In-reply-to: <009b01c6580f$99ed7e70$6401a8c0@NuDell> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67401 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones Beene wrote: > Fred, > >> You will grab carbon fiber straws while Buehler in his capacitor >> experiments achieved up to "18% weight reduction" with 0.47 >> joules /newton or 20 joule/kg force. > > I am convinced he, like dozens of others who have done similar > experiments, is seeing only ion momentum transfer, or induced > charge effects, or capacitive coupling effects... his > protestations to the contrary notwithstanding. > > Put the thing in a vacuum and the effect goes away. > > > Has it been done? Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 18:51:37 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k351pPh1008571; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 18:51:25 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k351pOXo008555; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 18:51:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 18:51:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=hGajLkDP7bpzmM1pgnxatfm60R2AtYf/m6suRB+GJyjXioIkntq2NGbVeRFRcJMF; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200643515114546@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 19:51:14 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940b5ac499fe538eea1b3c404d095181595350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.87.211 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67402 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Jones says. > > Put the thing in a vacuum and the effect goes away. > I'm not so sure about that, Jones. It takes the combined energy of 1.223e-13 0.510 MeV (8.16e-14 joule) electrons to equal 1.0 joule, the total charge, Q of 1.223e13 electrons is 2.0e-6 coulombs. A 5.0e-12 farad capacitor (in air) holding 2.0 e-6 coulombs has a voltage Q/5.0e-12 = 4.0e5 volts on its plates, and stores as Electrical Energy, 1/2 CV^2 = 0.4 joules. Buehler's calculation from the data shows the "normalized" anomalous repelling force (regardless of the sign of the plates wrt the earth) of 0.47 newtons per joule. Thus 0.47/0.4 = 1.175 newton/joule. (about 1.0 newton per joule). 9.8 newtons at 9.8 joule-sec (9.8 watts) or 1.0 newton per joule, will make a 1.0 kg mass achieve weightlessness at the earth's surface. It seems that electrical energy stored in the air (vacuum?) between the plates of a capacitor wants to repel the earth's gravity. At least on a beam balance, or a pendulum, where no work is being done? Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Jones says.
>
> Put the thing in a vacuum and the effect goes away.
>
I'm not so sure about that, Jones.
 
It takes the combined energy of 1.223e-13  0.510 MeV (8.16e-14 joule) electrons to equal 1.0 joule,
the total charge, Q of 1.223e13 electrons is 2.0e-6 coulombs.
 
A  5.0e-12  farad capacitor (in air) holding 2.0 e-6 coulombs has a voltage Q/5.0e-12 = 4.0e5 volts
on its plates, and stores as Electrical Energy, 1/2 CV^2 = 0.4 joules.
 
Buehler's calculation from the data shows the  "normalized" anomalous repelling force
(regardless of the sign of the plates wrt the earth) of  0.47 newtons per joule.  
 
Thus 0.47/0.4 = 1.175 newton/joule. (about 1.0 newton per joule).
9.8 newtons at 9.8 joule-sec (9.8 watts) or 1.0 newton per joule, will make a 1.0 kg mass achieve
weightlessness at the earth's surface.
It seems that electrical energy stored in the air (vacuum?) between the plates
of a capacitor wants to repel the earth's gravity.
 
 At least on a beam balance, or a pendulum, where no work is being done?
 
Fred
 


 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 4 19:15:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k352FSkV016992; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 19:15:29 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k352FQw9016963; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 19:15:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 19:15:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060404191744.02b0a1b8@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 19:17:58 -0700 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: Re: Flieshman's paper In-Reply-To: <442F7E94.5050604@usfamily.net> References: <442F7E94.5050604@usfamily.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67403 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: its the original FPH paper http://newenergytimes.com/Library/1989FPH/1989FPH.htm At 12:34 AM 4/2/2006, you wrote: >Vortecians; > >Someone mentioned Martin Flieshman's paper in which he uses the word >ignition, does anyone have a URL for it? > > > >--- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- >http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 5 04:13:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k35BCxtD029389; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 04:13:00 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k35BCvJJ029370; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 04:12:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 04:12:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=ey2TPxOm2JSmuJZcb69ft2fS5l2vNhNTi8yRbf68Rb/iu4QQzwc61ISr87kdlrgB; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006435111248557@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 05:12:48 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940193fc74d80f8f71ff8a959f3e33e463b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.32 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67404 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII BTW, Jones. The force between the capacitor plates Buehler used, equals Energy/Spacing = 0.4 joule/0.05 meter = 8.0 nt-meter/0.05 meter = 8.0 nt. Therefore the force ( F ) between the charged capacitor energy and the earth = 0.4 nt-meter/s meter so at 1.0 meter F = 0.4 nt regardless of the sign on each of the capacitor plates: OTOH, Buehler's single plate with a positive potential was attracted toward the earth as opposed to the repelling force of a negatively charged plate which suggests that electrons repel gravity. If not for the ~42 orders of magnitude greater proton-electron electrostatic force, there wouldn't be any electrons around. :-) Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/4/2006 7:52:00 PM Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Jones says. > > Put the thing in a vacuum and the effect goes away. > I'm not so sure about that, Jones. It takes the combined energy of 1.223e-13 0.510 MeV (8.16e-14 joule) electrons to equal 1.0 joule, the total charge, Q of 1.223e13 electrons is 2.0e-6 coulombs. A 5.0e-12 farad capacitor (in air) holding 2.0 e-6 coulombs has a voltage Q/5.0e-12 = 4.0e5 volts on its plates, and stores as Electrical Energy, 1/2 CV^2 = 0.4 joules. Buehler's calculation from the data shows the "normalized" anomalous repelling force (regardless of the sign of the plates wrt the earth) of 0.47 newtons per joule. Thus 0.47/0.4 = 1.175 newton/joule. (about 1.0 newton per joule). 9.8 newtons at 9.8 joule-sec (9.8 watts) or 1.0 newton per joule, will make a 1.0 kg mass achieve weightlessness at the earth's surface. It seems that electrical energy stored in the air (vacuum?) between the plates of a capacitor wants to repel the earth's gravity. At least on a beam balance, or a pendulum, where no work is being done? Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
BTW, Jones.
 
 The force between the capacitor plates Buehler used, equals Energy/Spacing
= 0.4 joule/0.05 meter = 8.0 nt-meter/0.05 meter   = 8.0 nt.
 
Therefore the force ( F ) between the charged capacitor energy and the earth = 0.4 nt-meter/s meter
so at 1.0 meter F = 0.4 nt  regardless of the sign on each of  the capacitor plates: 
 
OTOH, Buehler's single plate with a positive potential was attracted toward
the earth as opposed to the repelling force of a negatively charged plate
which suggests that electrons repel gravity.
 
If not for the ~42 orders of magnitude greater  proton-electron electrostatic force, there
wouldn't be any electrons around.   :-)
 
Fred
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/4/2006 7:52:00 PM
Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields

Jones says.
>
> Put the thing in a vacuum and the effect goes away.
>
I'm not so sure about that, Jones.
 
It takes the combined energy of 1.223e-13  0.510 MeV (8.16e-14 joule) electrons to equal 1.0 joule,
the total charge, Q of 1.223e13 electrons is 2.0e-6 coulombs.
 
A  5.0e-12  farad capacitor (in air) holding 2.0 e-6 coulombs has a voltage Q/5.0e-12 = 4.0e5 volts
on its plates, and stores as Electrical Energy, 1/2 CV^2 = 0.4 joules.
 
Buehler's calculation from the data shows the  "normalized" anomalous repelling force
(regardless of the sign of the plates wrt the earth) of  0.47 newtons per joule.  
 
Thus 0.47/0.4 = 1.175 newton/joule. (about 1.0 newton per joule).
9.8 newtons at 9.8 joule-sec (9.8 watts) or 1.0 newton per joule, will make a 1.0 kg mass achieve
weightlessness at the earth's surface.
It seems that electrical energy stored in the air (vacuum?) between the plates
of a capacitor wants to repel the earth's gravity.
 
 At least on a beam balance, or a pendulum, where no work is being done?
 
Fred
 


------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 5 05:56:19 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k35Cu6Xd032620; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 05:56:06 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k35Cu19o032598; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 05:56:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 05:56:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=mMzPq/EClhnxud1cH6aLDJT7x+0wyo3ff71mlSAR5nszE/H/n9YGxYHgndrz300d; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006435125552355@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 06:55:52 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940726adfff27bfd056d9090560fd21c89f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.230 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67405 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Oops again. :-( The force between the capacitor plates Buehler used, equals Energy/Spacing = 0.4 joule/0.05 meter = 0.4 nt-meter/0.05 meter = 8.0 nt. ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/5/2006 5:13:31 AM Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields BTW, Jones. The force between the capacitor plates Buehler used, equals Energy/Spacing = 0.4 joule/0.05 meter = 8.0 nt-meter/0.05 meter = 8.0 nt. Therefore the force ( F ) between the charged capacitor energy and the earth = 0.4 nt-meter/s meter so at 1.0 meter F = 0.4 nt regardless of the sign on each of the capacitor plates: OTOH, Buehler's single plate with a positive potential was attracted toward the earth as opposed to the repelling force of a negatively charged plate which suggests that electrons repel gravity. If not for the ~42 orders of magnitude greater proton-electron electrostatic force, there wouldn't be any electrons around. :-) Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/4/2006 7:52:00 PM Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Jones says. > > Put the thing in a vacuum and the effect goes away. > I'm not so sure about that, Jones. It takes the combined energy of 1.223e-13 0.510 MeV (8.16e-14 joule) electrons to equal 1.0 joule, the total charge, Q of 1.223e13 electrons is 2.0e-6 coulombs. A 5.0e-12 farad capacitor (in air) holding 2.0 e-6 coulombs has a voltage Q/5.0e-12 = 4.0e5 volts on its plates, and stores as Electrical Energy, 1/2 CV^2 = 0.4 joules. Buehler's calculation from the data shows the "normalized" anomalous repelling force (regardless of the sign of the plates wrt the earth) of 0.47 newtons per joule. Thus 0.47/0.4 = 1.175 newton/joule. (about 1.0 newton per joule). 9.8 newtons at 9.8 joule-sec (9.8 watts) or 1.0 newton per joule, will make a 1.0 kg mass achieve weightlessness at the earth's surface. It seems that electrical energy stored in the air (vacuum?) between the plates of a capacitor wants to repel the earth's gravity. At least on a beam balance, or a pendulum, where no work is being done? Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Oops again.  :-(
 
The force between the capacitor plates Buehler used, equals Energy/Spacing
= 0.4 joule/0.05 meter = 0.4 nt-meter/0.05 meter   = 8.0 nt.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/5/2006 5:13:31 AM
Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields

BTW, Jones.
 
 The force between the capacitor plates Buehler used, equals Energy/Spacing
= 0.4 joule/0.05 meter = 8.0 nt-meter/0.05 meter   = 8.0 nt.
 
Therefore the force ( F ) between the charged capacitor energy and the earth = 0.4 nt-meter/s meter
so at 1.0 meter F = 0.4 nt  regardless of the sign on each of  the capacitor plates: 
 
OTOH, Buehler's single plate with a positive potential was attracted toward
the earth as opposed to the repelling force of a negatively charged plate
which suggests that electrons repel gravity.
 
If not for the ~42 orders of magnitude greater  proton-electron electrostatic force, there
wouldn't be any electrons around.   :-)
 
Fred
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/4/2006 7:52:00 PM
Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields

Jones says.
>
> Put the thing in a vacuum and the effect goes away.
>
I'm not so sure about that, Jones.
 
It takes the combined energy of 1.223e-13  0.510 MeV (8.16e-14 joule) electrons to equal 1.0 joule,
the total charge, Q of 1.223e13 electrons is 2.0e-6 coulombs.
 
A  5.0e-12  farad capacitor (in air) holding 2.0 e-6 coulombs has a voltage Q/5.0e-12 = 4.0e5 volts
on its plates, and stores as Electrical Energy, 1/2 CV^2 = 0.4 joules.
 
Buehler's calculation from the data shows the  "normalized" anomalous repelling force
(regardless of the sign of the plates wrt the earth) of  0.47 newtons per joule.  
 
Thus 0.47/0.4 = 1.175 newton/joule. (about 1.0 newton per joule).
9.8 newtons at 9.8 joule-sec (9.8 watts) or 1.0 newton per joule, will make a 1.0 kg mass achieve
weightlessness at the earth's surface.
It seems that electrical energy stored in the air (vacuum?) between the plates
of a capacitor wants to repel the earth's gravity.
 
 At least on a beam balance, or a pendulum, where no work is being done?
 
Fred
 


------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 5 06:55:20 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k35Dt5vL024209; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 06:55:05 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k35Dt4jG024197; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 06:55:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 06:55:04 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <000d01c658b8$890e4b80$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex-l" References: <410-22006435111248557@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 06:55:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67406 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: But Fred, I have the "word", direct from the Saviour... And the word is EHD ... and for mere mortals, this is probably not gravity modification, although there could be a lesser B-B effect out there waiting to be proved, it is probably so small that it is almost trivial as far as usefullness (for space travel) is concerned. ...yes, "Saviour" is his real name (but he would likely be taken more seriusly by the mainstream if he were to change it) and there is no one on the planet who has done more careful and thorough R&D... into all things electrostatic. http://www.blazelabs.com/l-intro.asp Anyway, there has been a tremendous amount of "amateur" research done in the past few years on the elctrostatic "thrusters" aka "lifters." There is also similar, but more amateurish work (as to theory) on the Naudin Site. Of course these are not capacitors, per se. However the external effects are similar if not identical, and the whole field of inquiry demonstrates that there is a surprising amount of elelctrostatic thrust available from high voltage. In fact the hard part (and Buehler misses this point) is to get rid of it for experimental purposes. It is very easy to fool oneself into the belief that there is real gravity modification going on - and there may be some small amount, but without using a "hard" vacuum, it is impossible to know. That is why Buehler's work seems deficient. He seems to be mildly aware of these larger issues, but he tries to blow them off with a few words and little direct experiment. Even a cursory look at these older experiments should show that a hard vacuum is absolutely required for anything meaningful - and a moderate vacuum may even accentuate the EHD effect. Since Saviour is accessible, answers email, and is a brilliant experimenter - and has his own forum and Lab - and most of all - has dealt with these issues for years, I hope you will write him directly for an expert opinion. I am just a kibitzer of his work. Although the Buehler-et.-al underlying theory is nice: at this stage, there seems to be little in the Buehler stuff to alter the bottom line opinion that as far as what is going-on in the experiment itself, this is an EHD effect only, and he has not done his homework. I hope you will write to Saviour and challenge him with this theory and will post the thread back to vortex, but no one here (certainly not me) seems to be capable of adding anything relevant in the detail it deserves - or near the depth of Eng. Saviour's insight. Jones ----- Original Message ----- The force between the capacitor plates Buehler used, equals Energy/Spacing = 0.4 joule/0.05 meter = 8.0 nt-meter/0.05 meter = 8.0 nt. Therefore the force ( F ) between the charged capacitor energy and the earth = 0.4 nt-meter/s meter so at 1.0 meter F = 0.4 nt regardless of the sign on each of the capacitor plates: OTOH, Buehler's single plate with a positive potential was attracted toward the earth as opposed to the repelling force of a negatively charged plate which suggests that electrons repel gravity. If not for the ~42 orders of magnitude greater proton-electron electrostatic force, there wouldn't be any electrons around. :-) Fred Jones says. > Put the thing in a vacuum and the effect goes away. > I'm not so sure about that, Jones. It takes the combined energy of 1.223e-13 0.510 MeV (8.16e-14 joule) electrons to equal 1.0 joule, the total charge, Q of 1.223e13 electrons is 2.0e-6 coulombs. A 5.0e-12 farad capacitor (in air) holding 2.0 e-6 coulombs has a voltage Q/5.0e-12 = 4.0e5 volts on its plates, and stores as Electrical Energy, 1/2 CV^2 = 0.4 joules. Buehler's calculation from the data shows the "normalized" anomalous repelling force (regardless of the sign of the plates wrt the earth) of 0.47 newtons per joule. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 5 07:09:41 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k35E9TFk032055; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 07:09:29 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k35E9Rnt032035; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 07:09:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 07:09:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060405100744.03c581c8@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 10:09:22 -0400 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Fleischmann's paper In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20060404191744.02b0a1b8@mail.newenergytimes.com > References: <442F7E94.5050604@usfamily.net> <6.2.0.14.2.20060404191744.02b0a1b8@mail.newenergytimes.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67407 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Steven Krivit wrote: >its the original FPH paper > >http://newenergytimes.com/Library/1989FPH/1989FPH.htm Here is a version in Acrobat text format: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Fleischmanelectroche.pdf - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 5 07:46:03 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k35EjkBC020210; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 07:45:46 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k35Ejj0I020181; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 07:45:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 07:45:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=tW7bJhw4cfi1Kd4om9nVnSG5U6bX7cUlLicD1v1FTB9J8lgPk6aBlTBu+mrSJS6C; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006435144536283@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 08:45:36 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94045dfe53802dbec4293adad924ea5035f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.120.123 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67408 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Easy way to resolve the issue, Jones. Put a modified one of these in a "vacuum bottle" sitting on a scale with the 15 KV AC from a neon sign transformer feeding it and see if there's a weight change. http://www.stormwise.com/page3.htm Fred > [Original Message] > From: Jones Beene > To: vortex-l > Date: 4/5/2006 7:55:37 AM > Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields > > But Fred, I have the "word", direct from the Saviour... > > And the word is EHD ... and for mere mortals, this is probably not > gravity modification, although there could be a lesser B-B effect > out there waiting to be proved, it is probably so small that it is > almost trivial as far as usefullness (for space travel) is > concerned. > > ...yes, "Saviour" is his real name (but he would likely be taken > more seriusly by the mainstream if he were to change it) and there > is no one on the planet who has done more careful and thorough > R&D... into all things electrostatic. > http://www.blazelabs.com/l-intro.asp > > Anyway, there has been a tremendous amount of "amateur" research > done in the past few years on the elctrostatic "thrusters" aka > "lifters." There is also similar, but more amateurish work (as to > theory) on the Naudin Site. Of course these are not capacitors, > per se. However the external effects are similar if not identical, > and the whole field of inquiry demonstrates that there is a > surprising amount of elelctrostatic thrust available from high > voltage. > > In fact the hard part (and Buehler misses this point) is to get > rid of it for experimental purposes. It is very easy to fool > oneself into the belief that there is real gravity modification > going on - and there may be some small amount, but without using a > "hard" vacuum, it is impossible to know. > > That is why Buehler's work seems deficient. He seems to be mildly > aware of these larger issues, but he tries to blow them off with a > few words and little direct experiment. Even a cursory look at > these older experiments should show that a hard vacuum is > absolutely required for anything meaningful - and a moderate > vacuum may even accentuate the EHD effect. > > Since Saviour is accessible, answers email, and is a brilliant > experimenter - and has his own forum and Lab - and most of all - > has dealt with these issues for years, I hope you will write him > directly for an expert opinion. I am just a kibitzer of his work. > > Although the Buehler-et.-al underlying theory is nice: at this > stage, there seems to be little in the Buehler stuff to alter the > bottom line opinion that as far as what is going-on in the > experiment itself, this is an EHD effect only, and he has not done > his homework. > > I hope you will write to Saviour and challenge him with this > theory and will post the thread back to vortex, but no one here > (certainly not me) seems to be capable of adding anything relevant > in the detail it deserves - or near the depth of Eng. Saviour's > insight. > > Jones > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > The force between the capacitor plates Buehler used, equals > Energy/Spacing > = 0.4 joule/0.05 meter = 8.0 nt-meter/0.05 meter = 8.0 nt. > > Therefore the force ( F ) between the charged capacitor energy and > the earth = 0.4 nt-meter/s meter so at 1.0 meter F = 0.4 nt > regardless of the sign on each of the capacitor plates: > > OTOH, Buehler's single plate with a positive potential was > attracted toward > the earth as opposed to the repelling force of a negatively > charged plate > which suggests that electrons repel gravity. > > If not for the ~42 orders of magnitude greater proton-electron > electrostatic force, there wouldn't be any electrons around. :-) > > Fred > > Jones says. > > > Put the thing in a vacuum and the effect goes away. > > > I'm not so sure about that, Jones. > > It takes the combined energy of 1.223e-13 0.510 MeV (8.16e-14 > joule) electrons to equal 1.0 joule, > the total charge, Q of 1.223e13 electrons is 2.0e-6 coulombs. > > A 5.0e-12 farad capacitor (in air) holding 2.0 e-6 coulombs has > a voltage Q/5.0e-12 = 4.0e5 volts > on its plates, and stores as Electrical Energy, 1/2 CV^2 = 0.4 > joules. > > Buehler's calculation from the data shows the "normalized" > anomalous repelling force (regardless of the sign of the plates > wrt the earth) of 0.47 newtons per joule. > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 5 09:29:35 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k35GTNHo032198; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 09:29:23 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k35GTLko032188; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 09:29:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 09:29:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <200604051629.k35GTJlj098065@mail0.mx.voyager.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 11:29:19 -0500 From: "OrionWorks" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: svj@orionworks.com Reply-To: svj@orionworks.com Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC Useless information Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_a46e0c03743c1a6818dca9b0b3fe04e8" X-Mailer: CoreComm Webmail X-IPAddress: 66.168.30.131 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67409 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --=_a46e0c03743c1a6818dca9b0b3fe04e8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Jed Sez: > in the morning the time and date American-style will be: > > 01-02-03-04-05-06 > > This will not happen again for a hundred years. > > - Jed Dang! Slept through another momentous occasion. Reminds me of the time back in the early 70s when around 1:00 AM my buddies and I were driving past the UW Army Math Research Building of Madison, Wisconsin. Had we not been so inebriated at the time we might have noticed the dump truck filled with nitrogen fertilizer parked nearby. Fortunately, the timer was set to detonate a couple of hours later when presumably nobody would be in the building. Unfortunately, they miscalculated. Fortunately for me, I slept through that momentous occasion as well. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks --=_a46e0c03743c1a6818dca9b0b3fe04e8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Jed Sez:

> in the morning the time and date American-style will be:
>
> 01-02-03-04-05-06
>
> This will not happen again for a hundred years.
>
> - Jed

Dang!

Slept through another momentous occasion.

Reminds me of the time back in the early 70s when around 1:00 AM my buddies= and I were driving past the UW Army Math Research Building of Madison, Wis= consin. Had we not been so inebriated at the time we might have noticed the= dump truck filled with nitrogen fertilizer parked nearby. Fortunately, the= timer was set to detonate a couple of hours later when presumably nobody w= ould be in the building. Unfortunately, they miscalculated.

Fortunately for me, I slept through that momentous occasion as well.

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks --=_a46e0c03743c1a6818dca9b0b3fe04e8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 5 09:50:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k35Gob8O008830; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 09:50:38 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k35GoZ0B008805; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 09:50:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 09:50:35 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060405165030156.264895800084@mwinf3114.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060405165032.009a69fc@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 17:50:32 +0100 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67410 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:55 am 05/04/2006 -0700, Jones wrote: > But Fred, I have the "word", direct from the Saviour... Not the Saviour, Jones. A Saviour; one of many in his G+ country. > And the word is EHD ... and for mere mortals, this is probably not > gravity modification, although there could be a lesser B-B effect > out there waiting to be proved, it is probably so small that it is > almost trivial as far as usefulness (for space travel) is > concerned. > > ...yes, "Saviour" is his real name (but he would likely be taken > more seriously by the mainstream if he were to change it). Like your Tennessee ancestor who changed it from Bean to Beene, eh! (but who am I to talk with a name like Grimer ). To be fair, Saviour is a fairly common name in the country to which Ing.Saviour (not Eng.Saviour, note) belongs. He is a bit shy of revealing which country that it. I think he is afraid of the "can anything good come out of Galilee" effect - and I have to admit, with a name like Saviour...... 8-) Frank From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 5 09:54:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k35GsOqk010479; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 09:54:25 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k35GsM0n010454; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 09:54:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 09:54:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <200604051654.k35GsKoi011037@mail2.mx.voyager.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 11:54:19 -0500 From: "OrionWorks" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: svj@orionworks.com Reply-To: svj@orionworks.com Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_79a698615da5e2739c6e2935d7eacb4a" X-Mailer: CoreComm Webmail X-IPAddress: 66.168.30.131 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67411 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=_79a698615da5e2739c6e2935d7eacb4a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Jones Sez, ... > Hmm... Carbon fiber coated with nickel-iron and magnetized in > short repeating sections so that the poles change in resonance > with the (toroidal winding spacing) might possibly permit a very > large toroid (what was the diameter of that Roswell disk anyway) > to be spun much slower, and still achieve the same "rate" of > pole-changes (22,500/sec) but at much lower actual RPM. FWIW, The alleged Roswell "disk" was not really a disk. Recorded first hand witness accounts reported that it was a longish arrow-head shaped craft with swepted back delta wings. Officials who inspected the interior of the craft could not determine the propulsion technology as there did not seem to be any associated moving parts. In that sense the speculated technology does remind me somewhat of the Brownian "lifter" technology that amateurs are currently experimenting with. A form of very advanced "Lifter" technology has been speculated on and off in various UFO circles as the Roswell propulsion technology used. Who knows... Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks --=_79a698615da5e2739c6e2935d7eacb4a Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Jones Sez,
...
> Hmm... Carbon fiber coated with nickel-iron and magnetized in
> short repeating sections so that the poles change in resonance
> with the (toroidal winding spacing) might possibly permit a very
> large toroid (what was the diameter of that Roswell disk anyway)
> to be spun much slower, and still achieve the same "rate" of
> pole-changes (22,500/sec) but at much lower actual RPM.

FWIW,

The alleged Roswell "disk" was not really a disk. Recorded first hand witne= ss accounts reported that it was a longish arrow-head shaped craft with swe= pted back delta wings. Officials who inspected the interior of the craft co= uld not determine the propulsion technology as there did not seem to be any= associated moving parts. In that sense the speculated technology does remi= nd me somewhat of the Brownian "lifter" technology that amateurs are curren= tly experimenting with. A form of very advanced "Lifter" technology has bee= n speculated on and off in various UFO circles as the Roswell propulsion te= chnology used.

Who knows...

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks --=_79a698615da5e2739c6e2935d7eacb4a-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 5 11:52:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k35IqcFK027628; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 11:52:38 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k35IqXSt027585; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 11:52:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 11:52:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 14:52:40 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields In-reply-to: <410-22006435144536283@earthlink.net> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67412 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Just a comment. I have noticed that in this type of experiment, if the anomalous weight change is considered unexplainable in terms of conventional physics it is usually considered as evidence that g has been changed. However, it could also mean that the gravitational mass has been changed independently of inertial mass... implying the non-equivalence of inertial and gravitational mass. ;-) Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 5 12:06:04 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k35J5oHx000905; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 12:05:50 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k35J5mZH000885; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 12:05:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 12:05:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=sQFH5ACyN9BMChH1fJsTp7OEcrjaCh+YcTMFCFLWPU+RUVx+ujmrWbaGJfEb2OqR; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200643519540565@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re; A 5th Force? Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 13:05:40 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940465a771c596b3113b7ccf44f65c5f18a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.54 Resent-Message-ID: <8p4eUB.A.xN.MUBNEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67413 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Some experiments suggest a 1/R force between localized energy seats: Force, F = K* E1 * E2/R Newtons For E2 in the vacuum between the plates of capacitor, E = 1/2 CV^2 joule or nt-meter: Force, F = 1.0newton/joule or ~10 KW/Tonne at the earth's surface. In this case, E1 = 5.38e41 joule, R = 6.38e6 meters. Magnetrons and Klystrons feeding/trapping Electromagnetic Energy (~ 5e6 volts/meter E fields) into Cavity Resonators also comes to mind. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Some experiments suggest a 1/R force between localized energy seats:
 
Force, F = K* E1 * E2/R   Newtons
 
For E2 in the vacuum between the plates of capacitor, E = 1/2 CV^2   joule or nt-meter:
 
Force, F =  1.0newton/joule or ~10 KW/Tonne at the earth's surface.
 
In this case,  E1 = 5.38e41 joule, R = 6.38e6 meters.
 
Magnetrons and Klystrons feeding/trapping Electromagnetic Energy  (~ 5e6 volts/meter E fields)
into Cavity Resonators also comes to mind.
 
Fred
 
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 5 13:03:19 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k35K36a7026824; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 13:03:07 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k35K31wf026769; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 13:03:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 13:03:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060405200248128.1F7613400087@mwinf3116.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060405200250.00a0f778@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 21:02:50 +0100 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Resent-Message-ID: <8sltJB.A.KiG.1JCNEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67414 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:52 pm 05/04/2006 -0500, Harry wrote: > Just a comment. > > I have noticed that in this type of experiment, if the anomalous weight > change is considered unexplainable in terms of conventional physics it is > usually considered as evidence that g has been changed. However, it could > also mean that the gravitational mass has been changed independently of > inertial mass... implying the non-equivalence of inertial and gravitational > mass. ;-) > > Harry Quite so. Taking a straightforward of the inertia increase as electrons are whirled around in a cyclotron, if their gravitational mass increased at the same rate they should be on their way to China. Frank From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 5 17:27:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k360RpJ1024761; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 17:27:51 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k360Rnmo024747; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 17:27:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 17:27:49 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=hk9HW83xYsEQ0mYql3vBYDZo3SKp8+hiUkdB4v9sBelXOknA6pdkxo0Bth9ZMgr0; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200644602741825@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 18:27:41 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9404a6a1911363df102dff3700a6fa97464350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.192 Resent-Message-ID: <5Zf4hD.A.mCG.ECGNEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67415 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I think those spheres Terry saw are interconnected Spheres-within-Spheres connected by Tunnels-within-Tunnels, hence parallel-connected capacitor "lifters". http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg12490.html http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/electric/capsph.html J. L, Naudin was trying to use spheres in a similar arrangement as resonant cavities. You need simplicity for long voyage space travel. :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
I think those spheres Terry saw are interconnected Spheres-within-Spheres
connected by Tunnels-within-Tunnels, hence parallel-connected capacitor "lifters".
 
 
 
 
J. L, Naudin was trying to use spheres in a similar
arrangement as resonant cavities.
 
You need simplicity for long voyage space travel.  :-)
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 5 18:58:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k361wREk024593; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 18:58:28 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k361wLDH024558; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 18:58:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 18:58:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 18:58:21 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: US govt wants to make sulfur illegal? :) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <1To4jB.A.q_F.9WHNEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67416 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: The hobbyist fireworks community is in trouble. The CPSC (Consumer Products Safety Commission) regulates the sale of illegal fireworks. Now they've started going after manufacturers who sell the following list of materials to anyone lacking a BATF explosives manufacturing license. Their reasoning appears to be: because these materials can be combined to create illegal fireworks, yet the materials themselves are perfectly legal, the CPSC must take it upon themselves to sue companies who sell them to unlicensed individuals. Your tax dollars at work. more than one pound per year of: Sulfur salicylate compounds perchlorate compounds benzoate compounds nitrate compounds antimony and antimony compounds Any amount of: powdered aluminum & alloys powdered magnesium powdered titanium & alloys powdered zinc ...but only if the power size is under #100 mesh A legal defense fund has been set up to fight this stuff: Fireworks Foundation http://www.fireworksfoundation.org Here's the test case: a hobbyist fireworks company being sued by the government: http://www.firefox-fx.com/CPSC.htm See also: Consumer Prod. Safety Com. vs. hobby fireworks & chemistry http://google.com/search?q=%2Bcpsc+%2Bfirefox+%2Bfireworks (((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 425-222-5066 unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 6 02:07:55 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3697M7R005421; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 02:07:26 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3697KZO005400; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 02:07:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 02:07:20 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <4434DA31.3060109@usfamily.net> Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 04:06:57 -0500 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: electronic bombardment Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <5NjzWD.A.SUB.HpNNEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67417 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Tonight's guest on C to C AM was Roger Tolces, bug sweeper, http://www.bugsweeps.com/ . Among the topics were biochips and electronic attacks. I've had my share of fun with the Barron regarding his complaints about this. Roger's equipment detected an implant in a man. He was subsequently CAT scanned and the chip located. The victim had no knowledge of it's implanting. Roger says to get rid of your metal bed and inner spring. He also mentioned metalized blankets which are used as a shield.. Cell phone towers in general and other radio emitters are bombarding us with radiation and some people are more sensitive to it than others. --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 6 03:58:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k36AwHEK018788; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 03:58:17 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k36AwGMb018771; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 03:58:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 03:58:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=T1eTmWAgUwu1QUzDm/LtS1+6QxpohMafTCwVuDrt4Mf/RYC+r1piqr7363LHV7Th; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200644610589581@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: electronic bombardment Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 04:58:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940e11ff2d881b5e7e227e3bd6f308df245350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.201 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67418 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Thomas wrote. > > Roger's equipment detected an implant in a man. > He was subsequently CAT scanned and the chip located. > In the surveillance trade they call them Chocolate Chip Cookies, Thomas. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Thomas wrote.
>
> Roger's equipment detected an implant in a man.
> He was subsequently CAT scanned and the chip located.
>
In the surveillance trade they call
them Chocolate Chip Cookies, Thomas. 
 
Fred 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 6 06:10:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k36DA4vb026459; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 06:10:04 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k36DA0d1026413; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 06:10:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 06:10:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=i4XFd5RDleg2GuFUkXjJCs3hzNpAnEK+Iyh/pDrdY0ARwQEVcrvwCe1h19vQ/O2W; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200644613955689@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 07:09:55 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94088ce6906aad39fec0fd4c06c9e3e2f79350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.197 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67419 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII More scrutiny of Buehler's Experiment: http://www.space-mixing-theory.com/article2.pdf Parallel plate capacitor #3 with the wax dielectric with only 25 to 30 KV applied showed more anomalous up or down force than #1 and #2 with the air dielectric with 85 KV and 100 KV applied, and with obviously a lot less ion/corona, but there is a weight penalty that offsets any force gain over using an air-vacuum dielectric. Jones' ion wind artifact concerns generated by watching Sharper Images "Ionic Breeze" ozone-generating air purifier commercials not withstanding. :-) BTW, they now have an "ozone destroyer catalyst" on them. I wonder why? Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
More scrutiny of Buehler's Experiment:
 
 
Parallel plate capacitor #3 with the wax dielectric with only 25 to 30 KV
applied showed more anomalous up or down force than #1 and #2
with the air dielectric with 85 KV and 100 KV applied, and with
obviously a lot less ion/corona, but there is a weight penalty that
offsets any force gain over using an air-vacuum dielectric.
 
Jones'  ion wind artifact concerns generated by watching
Sharper Images "Ionic Breeze" ozone-generating
air purifier commercials not withstanding. :-)
 
BTW, they now have an "ozone destroyer catalyst" on them.
 
I wonder why?
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 6 07:27:21 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k36ER7ln029940; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 07:27:07 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k36ER5xV029924; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 07:27:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 07:27:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 14:47:21 +0100 From: "Chambers, Robert (UK)" Subject: RE: US govt wants to make sulfur illegal? :) To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: <984B4C94D7A59C48813E1C37EAB67C6E27DB16@glkms2121.greenlnk.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Thread-Topic: US govt wants to make sulfur illegal? :) Thread-Index: AcZZgKB2GF6nOGQyQpyNdjlb4SegWw== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Apr 2006 13:47:24.0901 (UTC) FILETIME=[A2D23950:01C65980] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k36EQomS029668 Resent-Message-ID: <15bID.A.gTH.5USNEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67420 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > more than one pound per year of: > salicylate compounds That'll hit the aspirin manufacturers... > benzoate compounds Soft drink manufacturers... > nitrate compounds Fertilizer manufacturers... It'll be interesting to see how this pans out. Rob ******************************************************************** This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. ******************************************************************** From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 6 12:09:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k36J8rlN007584; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 12:08:53 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k36J8T0t007379; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 12:08:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 12:08:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=N5sj6RH5wI8O/f383rVJZYCMgtSZBV18kxBEn2ioI17FsPucztJOfLDFMgZuCxWj; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006446174323994@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 11:43:24 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940d5baeda631b43ab999ca4f1408dfc9bd350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.245 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67421 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Posted yesterday. > > Put a modified one of these in a "vacuum bottle" sitting on > a scale with the 15 KV AC from a neon sign transformer feeding it > and see if there's a weight change. > > http://www.stormwise.com/page3.htm > An 8 quart aluminum pressure cooker (about $45.00) works very well as a vacuum chamber. Or the 21.5 quart ones (on special about $116.00 at Amazon.com) is a gasket-less metal-to-metal seal unit. Easy to modify the lids so that the grounded shielded high voltage lead eliminates external ion/corona artifacts. Not exactly a sphere-within-a-sphere, but close enough to safely fly around the kitchen without an FAA.permit. Perhaps? Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Posted yesterday.
>
> Put a modified one of these in a "vacuum bottle" sitting on
> a scale with the 15 KV AC from a neon sign transformer feeding it
> and see if there's a weight change.
>
>
An 8 quart aluminum pressure cooker (about $45.00) works very
well as a vacuum chamber. Or the 21.5 quart  ones (on special about $116.00 at
Amazon.com) is a gasket-less metal-to-metal seal unit. 
Easy to modify the lids so that the grounded shielded high voltage
lead eliminates external ion/corona artifacts.
Not exactly a sphere-within-a-sphere, but close enough
to safely fly around the kitchen without an FAA.permit. Perhaps?
 
Fred
 
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 6 12:25:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k36JPRiH018246; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 12:25:27 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k36JPNP4018183; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 12:25:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 12:25:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060406122619.02f62af8@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 12:28:10 -0700 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: sound engineering help requested Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67422 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hey Vorts, I just got my hands on a key audiotaped interview from 1989. I'd like to know if anyone has the skills to clean it up and remove background noise. Or if you know someone who can do it. thanks, s From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 6 12:42:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k36Jg5l9028891; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 12:42:05 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k36Jg4p4028882; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 12:42:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 12:42:04 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060406154102.00bffec0@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 15:41:58 -0400 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: sound engineering help requested In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20060406122619.02f62af8@mail.newenergytimes.com > References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060406122619.02f62af8@mail.newenergytimes.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67423 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Steven Krivit wrote: >I just got my hands on a key audiotaped interview from 1989. I'd >like to know if anyone has the skills to clean it up and remove >background noise. Is it understandable as is? If so, why not transcribe it. Who need audio if we can get it in writing. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 6 12:52:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k36JpUX5001282; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 12:51:30 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k36JpHFF001177; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 12:51:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 12:51:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: ThomasClark123@aol.com Message-ID: <244.a0fbaa1.3166cb25@aol.com> Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 15:51:01 EDT Subject: Re: BP To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1144353061" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67424 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1144353061 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/2/2006 9:31:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, walhalla@cvtv.net writes: The problem is that the Switz can't seem to grasp the notion they don't count anymore except for a place to store some ill gotten gains. If global warming trends are not prevented, Switzerland will be one of the best places in Europe to live. Food prices are high in Switzerland which prevents the illegal immigrants from staying there. The Swiss citizens live much healthier and longer lives since they use less electrical equipment than any other European nation. If you want to live a good healthy long life move to Switzerland. -------------------------------1144353061 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 4/2/2006 9:31:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, walhalla@= cvtv.net writes:
The problem is that the Switz can't s= eem to grasp the notion they don't count anymore except for a place to store= some ill gotten gains.
If global warming trends are not prevented, Switzerland will be one of=20= the best places in Europe to live.  Food prices are high in Switze= rland which prevents the illegal immigrants from staying there.  The Sw= iss citizens live much healthier and longer lives since they use less electr= ical equipment than any other European nation.   If you want=20= to live a good healthy long life move to Switzerland. 
-------------------------------1144353061-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 6 12:57:04 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k36JuXWb003939; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 12:56:34 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k36JuTWU003899; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 12:56:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 12:56:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: ThomasClark123@aol.com Message-ID: <20b.152c494a.3166cc62@aol.com> Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 15:56:18 EDT Subject: Re: BP To: vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1144353378" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67425 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1144353378 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/2/2006 4:18:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au writes: I think the gnomes of Zurich is a bit more likely. ;) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. If gnomes rule that's fine, since I get along with gnomes and the secret King of Germany who also lives in Switzerland. Gnomes make the best beer. -------------------------------1144353378 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 4/2/2006 4:18:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rvanspaa@= bigpond.net.au writes:
I think the gnomes of Zurich is a bit more lik= ely. ;)


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.b= igpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

Competition provides the motivation,
Coope= ration provides the means.
If gnomes rule that's fine, since I get along with gnomes and the secre= t King of Germany who also lives in Switzerland. Gnomes make the best beer.=20=
-------------------------------1144353378-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 6 13:08:35 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k36K8IKl010089; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 13:08:19 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k36K8Gsv010057; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 13:08:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 13:08:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=gpXAGUu4bcoRTmi2EjLAGawM86TsC8hXzzUjGEPgnCfT8eLoHZXPeTIr/Bv42olWhNcFuv2IMNLBS5g4b/8YizhpCxQDzHBK2PEdBDRyjJ6f0PG6IFEY7nZS7UxbKrhKsOpY3ERlLd0we9g1S+0H/pdIfxG3juburGydL9CgD00= Message-ID: Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 13:08:12 -0700 From: "leaking pen" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: BP In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_5455_13739472.1144354092380" References: <343.122d6f3.315ecdca@aol.com> <6.2.0.14.2.20060331162900.02b1cf70@mail.newenergytimes.com> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67426 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_Part_5455_13739472.1144354092380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline almost as bad as the deveels on deva. /could be worse. could be jahks. On 4/2/06, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > In reply to Steven Krivit's message of Fri, 31 Mar 2006 16:29:06 > -0800: > Hi, > [snip] > >>The symbol of the green and yellow, sun like lotus flower that British > >>Petroleum uses as its emblem, is the symbol of the Keebler like Elves i= n > >>the inner Earth. My guess is that the Elves run BP. I saw a comic boo= k > >>that also showed that the Elves run and control the European Union and > the > >>United Nations. > > I think the gnomes of Zurich is a bit more likely. ;) > > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ > > Competition provides the motivation, > Cooperation provides the means. > > -- "Monsieur l'abb=E9, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to ma= ke it possible for you to continue to write" Voltaire ------=_Part_5455_13739472.1144354092380 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
almost as bad as the deveels on deva.
/could be worse.  could be jahks.

 
On 4/2/06, R= obin van Spaandonk <rvans= paa@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
In reply to  Steven Kr= ivit's message of Fri, 31 Mar 2006 16:29:06
-0800:
Hi,
[snip]
&= gt;>The symbol of the green and yellow, sun like lotus flower that Briti= sh
>>Petroleum uses as its emblem, is the symbol of the Keebler like= Elves in
>>the inner Earth.  My guess is that the Elves= run BP.  I saw a comic book
>>that also showed that the= Elves run and control the European Union and the
>>United Nations.

I think the gnomes of Zurich is a bit mo= re likely. ;)


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvan= spaa/

Competition provides the motivation,
Cooperation provides th= e means.




--
"M= onsieur l'abb=E9, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make= it possible for you to continue to write"  Voltaire=20 ------=_Part_5455_13739472.1144354092380-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 6 14:53:54 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k36Lo4XB021051; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 14:53:46 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k36Lkj0G019335; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 14:46:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 14:46:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060406174554.03c5b218@mindspring.com> Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060406172725.03e50ca8@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 17:46:13 -0400 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Mizuno photos shown in a daring departure in web page design Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <4SMKf.A.3tE.-wYNEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67427 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I decided to make the Mizuno photos a permanent part of the Experiments page. They can be seen here: http://lenr-canr.org/Experiments.htm#PhotosTMizuno Scroll down a little to the new photos. Many readers here have probably already seen them. The LENR-CANR screens have been plain vanilla up until now, with absolutely no pop-ups and minimal use of Javascript. There is a little JavaScript for navigation between screens. This has not cause problems as far as I know. I keep things aggressively plain vanilla because many of our readers are in foreign countries and they have slow computers and slow, unreliable connections. Also, I ship a CD-ROM with a copy of the web site to Professor Li every month, and he runs it on a "mirror site" at Tsinghua U. The computers at the university and elsewhere in China are reportedly rudimentary, so I do not want to burden them with any fancy web page programming. However, on the screen, I have made a daring departure, leaping right into the 1990s. The screen shows 9 thumbnail pictures. You click on one to display it in the space below. I hope this works for all readers. Please contact me if it does not seem to display correctly on your computer. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 6 18:06:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3716H4U009381; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 18:06:17 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3716FPT009361; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 18:06:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 18:06:15 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <002001c659df$731c6e60$640fa8c0@MIKEBY3NR533HT> From: "Mike Carrell" To: References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060406122619.02f62af8@mail.newenergytimes.com> Subject: Re: sound engineering help requested Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 21:05:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67428 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Steve, I have the necessary audio software, which includes tools for forensic work. Too bad you didn't have the tape with you. Jed's suggestion of transcribing is good, but you may need help in noise reduction to do so. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Krivit" To: Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 3:28 PM Subject: sound engineering help requested > Hey Vorts, > > I just got my hands on a key audiotaped interview from 1989. I'd like to > know if anyone has the skills to clean it up and remove background noise. > Or if you know someone who can do it. > > thanks, > > s > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This Email has been scanned for all viruses by Medford Leas I.T. > Department. > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 7 05:36:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k37CaAdT025310; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 05:36:11 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k37Ca76N025271; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 05:36:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 05:36:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Ux6wJKO+jdyAPXrlQz5AWLC6peaZbJ6JH4A1rZGudIdU/zthPJPrbClPhkrsWyHg; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006457123556454@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 06:35:56 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940f16b7ad0a675f14524b955a6e9c0dcd9350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.70 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67429 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII In order to achieve 1.0 kg of weightlessness at the earth's surface, ~ 20 joules of electrogravity energy (as D.C.) must be stored between the plate of a vacuum capacitor.. Thus for a pair of one meter square plates separated by 1/2 meter the voltage V required = (20/8.85e-12)^1/2 = 1.5 Megavolts. Obviously to get any floating levitation the two plates of the capacitor must have a combined mass of less than a kilogram. Sphere-within-a-Sphere capacitors will eliminate ion wind/corona problems if the radius of the inner sphere (a) is one meter (to allow occupancy) and the radius of sphere (b) is 1.5 meters C = 4(pi)8.85e-12/0.5 - 2.22e-10 farad. The vacuum volume between the spheres is about 36 cubic meters. The material for the spheres requires 41 square meters of strong-conductive material. Based on 24 gauge aluminum (~ 1.4 kg/meter^2) the combined weight of the spheres is about 60 kg. At 20 joules/meter^3 required to achieve weightlessness it will require at 1300 joules to float. V = [1300/(2*2.22e-10)]^1/2 = 3.4 Megavolts Connecting additional sphere-in-sphere units together using crawl-able tubes-in-tubes (parallel capacitance at the working voltage) will add to float capability. TGIF Anonymous :-) ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
In order to achieve 1.0  kg of weightlessness at the earth's
surface, ~ 20 joules of electrogravity energy  (as D.C.) must be stored
between the plate of a vacuum capacitor..
Thus for a pair of one meter square plates separated by 1/2 meter
the voltage V  required = (20/8.85e-12)^1/2 = 1.5 Megavolts.
Obviously to get any floating levitation the two plates of the capacitor
must have a combined mass of less than a kilogram.
Sphere-within-a-Sphere capacitors will eliminate ion wind/corona
problems if the radius of the inner sphere (a) is one meter
(to allow occupancy) and the radius of sphere (b) is 1.5 meters
C = 4(pi)8.85e-12/0.5 - 2.22e-10 farad.
The vacuum volume  between the spheres is about 36 cubic meters.
The material for the spheres requires 41 square meters of strong-conductive
material. Based on 24 gauge aluminum (~ 1.4 kg/meter^2) the
combined weight of the spheres is about 60 kg.
At 20 joules/meter^3 required to achieve weightlessness it will require
at 1300 joules to float.
V = [1300/(2*2.22e-10)]^1/2 = 3.4 Megavolts
Connecting additional sphere-in-sphere units together using  crawl-able
tubes-in-tubes  (parallel capacitance at the working voltage) will add to float capability.
 
TGIF
 
Anonymous   :-)
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 7 07:15:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k37EFguY018305; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 07:15:42 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k37EFegG018281; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 07:15:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 07:15:40 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=I5p6R97jpCBTvtQV2U+NCOgtaYr8DuUmrDM2Ap2sn5FPBG+h/tVJDIxKvigbQyZp; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006457141533587@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 08:15:33 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940c0c21d7fe86c52ea5b7dc2b0a3b690b1350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.41 Resent-Message-ID: <7wb9k.A.idE.LQnNEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67430 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Going way out on a limb. An 8 inch diameter 24 gauge aluminum sphere inside a 12 inch diameter 24 gauge aluminum sphere (~ 1.2 kg wt.) laid on the table with the outer sphere grounded so it's ~2.22e-9 farad capacitance can be charged with energy > 20 joules: V = [20*1.2/(0.5*2.2e-9)]^1/2 = 147,000 volts Connecting the inner sphere to a Van de Graaff at 150,000 volts (or more) through a suitable feed-though insulator will make the thing want to float. If it doesn't, it's back to the old drawing board. :-) Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/7/2006 6:36:39 AM Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields In order to achieve 1.0 kg of weightlessness at the earth's surface, ~ 20 joules of electrogravity energy (as D.C.) must be stored between the plate of a vacuum capacitor.. Thus for a pair of one meter square plates separated by 1/2 meter the voltage V required = (20/8.85e-12)^1/2 = 1.5 Megavolts. Obviously to get any floating levitation the two plates of the capacitor must have a combined mass of less than a kilogram. Sphere-within-a-Sphere capacitors will eliminate ion wind/corona problems if the radius of the inner sphere (a) is one meter (to allow occupancy) and the radius of sphere (b) is 1.5 meters C = 4(pi)8.85e-12/0.5 - 2.22e-10 farad. The vacuum volume between the spheres is about 36 cubic meters. The material for the spheres requires 41 square meters of strong-conductive material. Based on 24 gauge aluminum (~ 1.4 kg/meter^2) the combined weight of the spheres is about 60 kg. At 20 joules/meter^3 required to achieve weightlessness it will require at 1300 joules to float. V = [1300/(2*2.22e-10)]^1/2 = 3.4 Megavolts Connecting additional sphere-in-sphere units together using crawl-able tubes-in-tubes (parallel capacitance at the working voltage) will add to float capability. TGIF Anonymous :-) ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Going way out on a limb.
 
An 8 inch diameter 24 gauge aluminum sphere inside a
12 inch diameter 24 gauge aluminum sphere (~ 1.2 kg wt.) laid on the
table with the outer sphere grounded so it's ~2.22e-9 farad capacitance
can be charged with energy > 20 joules:
 
V = [20*1.2/(0.5*2.2e-9)]^1/2 = 147,000 volts
 
Connecting the inner sphere to a Van de Graaff at 150,000 volts
(or more) through a suitable feed-though insulator will
make the thing want to float.
 
If it doesn't, it's back to the old drawing board.  :-)
 
Fred
 
 ----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/7/2006 6:36:39 AM
Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields

In order to achieve 1.0  kg of weightlessness at the earth's
surface, ~ 20 joules of electrogravity energy  (as D.C.) must be stored
between the plate of a vacuum capacitor..
Thus for a pair of one meter square plates separated by 1/2 meter
the voltage V  required = (20/8.85e-12)^1/2 = 1.5 Megavolts.
Obviously to get any floating levitation the two plates of the capacitor
must have a combined mass of less than a kilogram.
Sphere-within-a-Sphere capacitors will eliminate ion wind/corona
problems if the radius of the inner sphere (a) is one meter
(to allow occupancy) and the radius of sphere (b) is 1.5 meters
C = 4(pi)8.85e-12/0.5 - 2.22e-10 farad.
The vacuum volume  between the spheres is about 36 cubic meters.
The material for the spheres requires 41 square meters of strong-conductive
material. Based on 24 gauge aluminum (~ 1.4 kg/meter^2) the
combined weight of the spheres is about 60 kg.
At 20 joules/meter^3 required to achieve weightlessness it will require
at 1300 joules to float.
V = [1300/(2*2.22e-10)]^1/2 = 3.4 Megavolts
Connecting additional sphere-in-sphere units together using  crawl-able
tubes-in-tubes  (parallel capacitance at the working voltage) will add to float capability.
 
TGIF
 
Anonymous   :-)
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 7 07:43:54 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k37Ehb7M001956; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 07:43:37 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k37EhaQM001934; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 07:43:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 07:43:36 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-IronPort-AV: i="4.04,98,1143993600"; d="scan'208"; a="253360732:sNHT29378912" Message-ID: <44367A8E.50808@iinet.net.au> Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 00:43:26 +1000 From: Wesley Bruce User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: BP References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060326191034.02b8c2c8@mail.newenergytimes.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20060326191034.02b8c2c8@mail.newenergytimes.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67431 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Steven Krivit wrote: > Anybody ever think about British Petroleum's name change to BP? > > Hmm ... > > > s > It's been BP for decades here in Australia. Some have re defined it as meaning British Power; as in energy not empire. BP Australia has a big chunk of our solar market. Solar hot water and solar cells. It runs the Asian arm of the multinational and oil is now only a small percent of its profit margin. The same is now true of Shell. Both are now making larger profits from renewables than from oil. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 7 10:34:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k37HYFZd018729; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 10:34:16 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k37HYDuZ018692; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 10:34:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 10:34:13 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 13:34:11 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C828809E1E116A-2060-A208@mblkn-m11.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: What *IS* Magnetism? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.129 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <04IvlC.A.7jE.UKqNEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67432 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: How come the Aussies have the best explanations for things: http://www.ph.unimelb.edu.au/~dnj/teaching/160mag/160mag.htm "The imbalance in the linear charge densities between the positive metal ions and the moving electrons, measured in the reference frame of the moving charge, is a result of the Lorentz contraction due to the relative motions of the nearby charged particle, the electrons flowing in the wire and the metal ions. This relativistic effect is perhaps most familiar to us when applied to fast moving objects. Let us see how fast the electrons are moving in a typical current carrying wire. In a copper wire the density of copper atoms is about 8.5x10^22 atoms per cubic centimetre, and hence the density of free electrons is about the same. In a copper wire with a cross sectional area of 1 square millimetre and carrying a current of 10 Amps the formula for v given above shows that the electron velocity is only 0.7 millimetres per second. This is an extremely small velocity! The Lorentz contraction for such a small velocity differs from 1 by only 3x10^-24. This unimaginably small contraction is nevertheless sufficient to cause a slight imbalance in the positive and negative charge densities of the wire that causes moving charged particles to feel a magnetic force. " Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 7 11:02:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k37I2RZ1031646; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 11:02:27 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k37I2NqR031602; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 11:02:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 11:02:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 14:02:19 -0400 Message-Id: <8C828848BE20E0F-25F8-18333@mblkn-m14.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <20060407174921.ZHQI9593.tomts31-srv.bellnexxia.net@MHNDESK> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <20060407174921.ZHQI9593.tomts31-srv.bellnexxia.net@MHNDESK> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: EEStor Patent(was: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.132 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k37I2LId031567 Resent-Message-ID: <1NHA8B.A.ptH.vkqNEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67433 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Murray Nightingale check out article on the web site Clean Break  Scroll down to March 29th 2006 post. Sorry I cant give you the link.  By the way, Feel Good Car  mentioned in the bolg is a public company on the Canadian Stock exchange( the venture exchange) ticker znn. <><><><><><><> http://tyler.blogware.com/blog/_archives/2006/3/29 http://www.feelgoodcars.com/ ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 7 11:17:33 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k37IHBCO006513; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 11:17:12 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k37IHAQv006495; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 11:17:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 11:17:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <200604071817.k37IH3Tc037443@mail1.mx.voyager.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 13:17:04 -0500 From: "OrionWorks" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: svj@orionworks.com Reply-To: svj@orionworks.com Subject: Re: What *IS* Magnetism? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_9b9d2d8e978185ccd9b33ff039a26e0a" X-Mailer: CoreComm Webmail X-IPAddress: 130.47.34.2 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67434 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=_9b9d2d8e978185ccd9b33ff039a26e0a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From hohlrauml6d: ... > In a copper wire the density of copper atoms is about > 8.5x10^22 atoms per cubic centimetre, and hence the density > of free electrons is about the same. In a copper wire with > a cross sectional area of 1 square millimetre and carrying > a current of 10 Amps the formula for v given above shows that > the electron velocity is only 0.7 millimetres per second. > This is an extremely small velocity! ... > Terry Hi Terrry, In the scenario described above, if electron velocity is calculated to be around 0.7 mm/sec (presumably at a stationary position) why don't the effects of magnetism increase dramatically if we were to make a electromagnetic coil and spin it at say a lazy 60 rpm, a very slow revolution. I presume spinning an electromagnetic coil at such a slow speed doesn't increase the effects of magnetism one whit. Just curious. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks --=_9b9d2d8e978185ccd9b33ff039a26e0a Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >From hohlrauml6d:

...

> In a copper wire the density of copper atoms is about
> 8.5x10^22 atoms per cubic centimetre, and hence the density
> of free electrons is about the same. In a copper wire with
> a cross sectional area of 1 square millimetre and carrying
> a current of 10 Amps the formula for v given above shows that
> the electron velocity is only 0.7 millimetres per second.
> This is an extremely small velocity!

...

> Terry


Hi Terrry,

In the scenario described above, if electron velocity is calculated to be a= round 0.7 mm/sec (presumably at a stationary position) why don't the effect= s of magnetism increase dramatically if we were to make a electromagnetic c= oil and spin it at say a lazy 60 rpm, a very slow revolution. I presume spi= nning an electromagnetic coil at such a slow speed doesn't increase the eff= ects of magnetism one whit.

Just curious.

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks --=_9b9d2d8e978185ccd9b33ff039a26e0a-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 7 11:42:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k37IgAp6018601; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 11:42:10 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k37Ig8r6018587; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 11:42:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 11:42:08 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 14:42:01 -0400 Message-Id: <8C8288A17F9517D-25F8-184D0@mblkn-m14.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <200604071817.k37IH3Tc037443@mail1.mx.voyager.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <200604071817.k37IH3Tc037443@mail1.mx.voyager.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: What *IS* Magnetism? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.132 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67435 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: OrionWorks In the scenario described above, if electron velocity is calculated to be around 0.7 mm/sec (presumably at a stationary position) why don't the effects of magnetism increase dramatically if we were to make a electromagnetic coil and spin it at say a lazy 60 rpm, a very slow revolution. I presume spinning an electromagnetic coil at such a slow speed doesn't increase the effects of magnetism one whit. <><><><><><> Hmmm. The web page describes how a charge experiences a magnetic field. Did you go there? It provides a dramatic description. I'm not sure the site relates to your question. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 7 11:50:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k37InliE022660; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 11:49:47 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k37InhmU022605; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 11:49:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 11:49:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <200604071849.k37Indja051549@mail1.mx.voyager.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 13:49:39 -0500 From: "OrionWorks" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: svj@orionworks.com Subject: Re: What *IS* Magnetism? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_83dcd805f6bba639d812ce95f636e5b9" X-Mailer: CoreComm Webmail X-IPAddress: 130.47.34.2 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67436 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=_83dcd805f6bba639d812ce95f636e5b9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Hmmm. The web page describes how a charge experiences a magnetic > field. Did you go there? No, I didn't. Thought I'd ask you first. Nevertheless, I'm currently browsing the site. Looks like the contents here should keep me occupied for quite a while...and out of everyone's hair. > It provides a dramatic description. I'm not > sure the site relates to your question. > Terry We shall see. ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks --=_83dcd805f6bba639d812ce95f636e5b9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Hmmm. The web page describes how a charge experiences a magnetic
> field. Did you go there?

No, I didn't. Thought I'd ask you first. Nevertheless, I'm currently browsi= ng the site. Looks like the contents here should keep me occupied for quite= a while...and out of everyone's hair.

> It provides a dramatic description. I'm not
> sure the site relates to your question.

> Terry

We shall see. ;-)
Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks --=_83dcd805f6bba639d812ce95f636e5b9-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 7 12:33:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k37JQl9D008572; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 12:26:50 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k37JQZpV008440; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 12:26:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 12:26:35 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 15:26:21 -0400 From: George Holz Subject: Re: What *IS* Magnetism? To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: <00fd01c65a79$272ef7d0$6501a8c0@GEH> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1506 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <200604071817.k37IH3Tc037443@mail1.mx.voyager.net> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67437 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Steven Vincent Johnson wrote: >Hi Terry, >In the scenario described above, if electron velocity is calculated to be around 0.7 mm/sec (presumably at a >stationary position) why don't the effects of magnetism increase dramatically if we were to make a >electromagnetic coil and spin it at say a lazy 60 rpm, a very slow revolution. I presume spinning an >electromagnetic coil at such a slow speed doesn't increase the effects of magnetism one whit. Since Terry didn't answer your question I will suggest an answer. In the first case the positive charges are fixed and the electrons are moving. In your suggested case the relative charge motion is the same as before since moving the entire uncharged conductor will move both electrons and protons at additional but equal velocity which cancels any additional net charge motion. Spinning a charged ring would be an interesting experiment. Does anyone know if this has been reported in the literature? Regards, George Holz Varitronics Systems From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 7 12:34:12 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k37JXwni012959; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 12:33:59 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k37JXu6O012940; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 12:33:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 12:33:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 15:33:54 -0400 Message-Id: <8C8289157550D4B-2F48-1F705@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <200604071849.k37Indja051549@mail1.mx.voyager.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <200604071849.k37Indja051549@mail1.mx.voyager.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: What *IS* Magnetism? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.65 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67438 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: OrionWorks Looks like the contents here should keep me occupied for quite a while...and out of everyone's hair. <><><><><><> No worries, mate. Some of us just wished we had hair for you to tangle with. :-) ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 7 12:47:02 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k37Jkcij018963; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 12:46:39 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k37Jkbu8018949; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 12:46:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 12:46:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=ThBe1q3YXZ++9Av73uOBr0O1A1TE+uTqdWoWc01EnlG/T1MrbOT1fSt49G0PnblEgXcB9r6WGovb0eo3ACMiv7ynzM+iR6GZ+/uvvP0bD3wsDopxa05PHc3I4aO0jJLvuf7Ms21PrJ3esOL1BhRtzMWlvsiIzO07Xxr63yV5wi4= Message-ID: Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 12:46:37 -0700 From: "leaking pen" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Mars orbiter photos MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_19103_19947355.1144439197799" Resent-Message-ID: <6R-aYB.A.BoE.dGsNEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67439 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_Part_19103_19947355.1144439197799 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/hourlyupdate/123605.php The UA's HiRISE camera team has released the first color images of Mars taken from a NASA craft orbiting the red planet. The public is invited to see the images, meet the scientists and tour the operation center at Mars Mania II Saturday on campus. The High Resolution Imaging Science Experiment camera took four pictures of Mars on March 23 and another four on March 25. The HiRISE team released the first preliminary black and white picture March 24, two weeks after the Mar= s Reconnaissance Orbiter successfully maneuvered its way into orbit. The test images show both the spacecraft and the camera are working well, said Alfred S. McEwen, a University of Arizona professor leading the camera team. HiRISE is the most powerful camera ever to leave Earth's orbit and will tak= e 10,000 high-resolution images of Mars during a 25-month mission. The pictures, taken from an orbit of 190 miles, will show unprecedented detail of the Martian surface, with objects 1 meter in size clearly visible. Tomorrow, the HiRISE team will host Mars Mania II, from 1 p.m. to 10 p.m. a= t the Charles P. Sonett Space Sciences Building, 1541 E. University Blvd. McEwen will speak about the camera at 7 p.m. Hands-on activities for children will run from 1 p.m. to 5 p.m. Tours of the HiRISE Operations Center will be given hourly from 1 p.m. to 5 p.m. ------=_Part_19103_19947355.1144439197799 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
 
The UA's HiRISE camera team has released the first color images of Mar= s taken from a NASA craft orbiting the red planet.
The public is invited to see the images, meet the scientists and tour = the operation center at Mars Mania II Saturday on campus.
The High Resolution Imaging Science Experiment camera took four pictur= es of Mars on March 23 and another four on March 25. The HiRISE team releas= ed the first preliminary black and white picture March 24, two weeks after = the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter successfully maneuvered its way into orbit.= =20
The test images show both the spacecraft and the camera are working we= ll, said Alfred S. McEwen, a University of Arizona professor leading the ca= mera team.
HiRISE is the most powerful camera ever to leave Earth's orbit and wil= l take 10,000 high-resolution images of Mars during a 25-month mission. The= pictures, taken from an orbit of 190 miles, will show unprecedented detail= of the Martian surface, with objects 1 meter in size clearly visible.=20
Tomorrow, the HiRISE team will host Mars Mania II, from 1 p.m. to 10 p= .m. at the Charles P. Sonett Space Sciences Building, 1541 E. University Bl= vd. McEwen will speak about the camera at 7 p.m. Hands-on activities for ch= ildren will run from 1=20 p.m. to 5 p.m. Tours of the HiRISE Operations Center will be given hourly f= rom 1 p.m. to 5 p.m.
------=_Part_19103_19947355.1144439197799-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 7 12:57:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k37JvLPN024953; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 12:57:21 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k37JvJ0P024928; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 12:57:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 12:57:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <200604071957.k37JvIeh081861@mail1.mx.voyager.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 14:57:18 -0500 From: "OrionWorks" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: svj@orionworks.com Reply-To: svj@orionworks.com Subject: Re: What *IS* Magnetism? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_eccb00247f0609816f728834c890dd0f" X-Mailer: CoreComm Webmail X-IPAddress: 130.47.34.2 Resent-Message-ID: <6jnd3D.A.cFG.fQsNEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67441 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=_eccb00247f0609816f728834c890dd0f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi George, > From George Holz, >> Hi Terry, >> In the scenario described above, if electron velocity is calculated to >> be around 0.7 mm/sec (presumably at a stationary position) why don't >> the effects of magnetism increase dramatically if we were to make a >> electromagnetic coil and spin it at say a lazy 60 rpm, a very slow >> revolution. I presume spinning an >electromagnetic coil at such a >> slow speed doesn't increase the effects of magnetism one whit. > Since Terry didn't answer your question I will suggest an answer. > In the first case the positive charges are fixed and the electrons are > moving. In your suggested case the relative charge motion is the same > as before since moving the entire uncharged conductor will move both > electrons and protons at additional but equal velocity which cancels > any additional net charge motion. Thanks for the explanation, George. Makes sense to me. I will be interested in seeing if I can comprehend what the electrostatic/magnetic asymmetries might be as described out at the aussie web site. > Spinning a charged ring would be an interesting experiment. > Does anyone know if this has been reported in the literature? Indeed it would be. I would imagine this is likely be difficult to perform since an elaborate containment field & shielding would be needed in order to keep the spinning electrons from bleeding away. I would guess this could make it difficult to make accurate measurements. > Regards, > George Holz > Varitronics Systems BTW, Terry, the forces of gravity have worked their magic on my body as well. Whatever follicles I had sprouting on the top of my head in youth have now migrated to lower latitudes - including my ear canals. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks --=_eccb00247f0609816f728834c890dd0f Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi George,

> From George Holz,

>> Hi Terry,
>> In the scenario described above, if electron velocity is calculated to >> be around 0.7 mm/sec (presumably at a stationary position) why don't
>> the effects of magnetism increase dramatically if we were to make a
>> electromagnetic coil and spin it at say a lazy 60 rpm, a very slow
>> revolution. I presume spinning an >electromagnetic coil at such a
>> slow speed doesn't increase the effects of magnetism one whit.

> Since Terry didn't answer your question I will suggest an answer.
> In the first case the positive charges are fixed and the electrons are > moving. In your suggested case the relative charge motion is the same
> as before since moving the entire uncharged conductor will move both
> electrons and protons at additional but equal velocity which cancels
> any additional net charge motion.

Thanks for the explanation, George. Makes sense to me. I will be interested= in seeing if I can comprehend what the electrostatic/magnetic asymmetries = might be as described out at the aussie web site.

> Spinning a charged ring would be an interesting experiment.
> Does anyone know if this has been reported in the literature?

Indeed it would be. I would imagine this is likely be difficult to perform = since an elaborate containment field & shielding would be needed in order t= o keep the spinning electrons from bleeding away. I would guess this could = make it difficult to make accurate measurements.

> Regards,
> George Holz
> Varitronics Systems

BTW, Terry, the forces of gravity have worked their magic on my body as wel= l. Whatever follicles I had sprouting on the top of my head in youth have n= ow migrated to lower latitudes - including my ear canals.

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks --=_eccb00247f0609816f728834c890dd0f-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 7 14:17:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k37LHQis030576; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 14:17:27 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k37LHOiR030558; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 14:17:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 14:17:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 17:17:24 -0400 From: George Holz Subject: Re: What *IS* Magnetism? To: "vortex-l@eskimo.com" Message-id: <012501c65a88$aaa5c300$6501a8c0@GEH> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1506 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <200604071817.k37IH3Tc037443@mail1.mx.voyager.net> <00fd01c65a79$272ef7d0$6501a8c0@GEH> <00d701c65a7c$395cb7a0$4b01a8c0@colin5fc9e2583> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67442 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Colin, Thanks for the url's. The third one was particluarly interesting. An experiment I would like to do is to spin a charged long single layer hi K high voltage capacitor inside a toroid made of soft magnetic material. A large ac voltage should be induced on a coil wound on the toroid. Loading the coil should induce a drag force on the spinning capacitor. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin Quinney" To: Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 3:48 PM Subject: Re: What *IS* Magnetism? > > Spinning a charged ring would be an interesting experiment. > > Does anyone know if this has been reported in the literature? > > Hi George, > > Literature? Not per se, but here some pertinent or related links.. > > http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/gr-qc?9512027 > http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?IDX=EP0486243&CY=ep&LG=en&DB=EPODOC > http://bel.150m.com/exp10.htm > > Colin > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 7 14:44:53 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k37Lie1q011259; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 14:44:40 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k37Lic6g011237; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 14:44:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 14:44:38 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: EEStor Patent(was: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline) Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 07:44:32 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <01nd32lplcfrpraeqa68phqikr1nd614km@4ax.com> References: <20060407174921.ZHQI9593.tomts31-srv.bellnexxia.net@MHNDESK> <8C828848BE20E0F-25F8-18333@mblkn-m14.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C828848BE20E0F-25F8-18333@mblkn-m14.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta05ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.65.169] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Fri, 7 Apr 2006 21:44:31 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k37LiZb9011190 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67443 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to hohlrauml6d@netscape.net's message of Fri, 07 Apr 2006 14:02:19 -0400: Hi, [snip] > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Murray Nightingale > >check out article on the web site Clean Break  Scroll down to March >29th 2006 post. Sorry I cant give you the link.  By the way, Feel Good >Car  mentioned in the bolg is a public company on the Canadian Stock >exchange( the venture exchange) ticker znn. > ><><><><><><><> > >http://tyler.blogware.com/blog/_archives/2006/3/29 > >http://www.feelgoodcars.com/ Anyone foolish enough to link up with this idiot of car maker will probably go broke. The "feelgood" car, has got to be one of the ugliest creations I have ever had the misfortune to set eyes on. If they sell *any* with the new battery, it will be despite the design of the vehicle, and solely because people are desperate to get hold of *anything* with the new battery in it. EEStor Inc. couldn't have picked a worse partner. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 7 12:48:53 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k37JmRk0019936; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 12:48:28 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k37JmPk1019910; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 12:48:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 12:48:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=39uKlRlv68qSYi/dZ7M4nNSeE6BaWND0HZWIaGU7PchwcGuJKmO0mQuxauCA28tALTSA46I5ey7zdpNPoRE1rcIxUyMRulshS9/bb+lwB+qsXa/2Lx6Z2fE9VSgPNpqsfota0utuBKem5tsFlKzQsrUZURDC3w1LMYEmU+S2LYo= ; Message-ID: <00d701c65a7c$395cb7a0$4b01a8c0@colin5fc9e2583> Reply-To: "Colin Quinney" From: "Colin Quinney" To: References: <200604071817.k37IH3Tc037443@mail1.mx.voyager.net> <00fd01c65a79$272ef7d0$6501a8c0@GEH> Subject: Re: What *IS* Magnetism? Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 15:48:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67440 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends5 Status: RO X-Status: > Spinning a charged ring would be an interesting experiment. > Does anyone know if this has been reported in the literature? Hi George, Literature? Not per se, but here some pertinent or related links.. http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/gr-qc?9512027 http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?IDX=EP0486243&CY=ep&LG=en&DB=EPODOC http://bel.150m.com/exp10.htm Colin ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Holz" To: Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 3:26 PM Subject: Re: What *IS* Magnetism? > > Steven Vincent Johnson wrote: > >>Hi Terry, >>In the scenario described above, if electron velocity is calculated to be > around 0.7 mm/sec (presumably at a >stationary position) why don't the > effects of magnetism increase dramatically if we were to make a >>electromagnetic coil and spin it at say a lazy 60 rpm, a very slow > revolution. I presume spinning an >electromagnetic coil at such a slow > speed > doesn't increase the effects of magnetism one whit. > > Since Terry didn't answer your question I will suggest an answer. > In the first case the positive charges are fixed and the electrons are > moving. In your suggested case the relative charge motion is the same > as before since moving the entire uncharged conductor will move both > electrons > and protons at additional but equal velocity which cancels any > additional net charge motion. > > Spinning a charged ring would be an interesting experiment. > Does anyone know if this has been reported in the literature? > > Regards, > George Holz > Varitronics Systems > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 7 14:59:08 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k37Lwn2e017412; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 14:58:50 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k37LwmQL017396; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 14:58:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 14:58:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:Cc:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=3hyvrxzRIawjigcBBDqOfi0PS7wiWHWYFS1WGd37mfye/Xw2uHqP5QV/xr5RaSuU+1EJoNYdfOJ067TWNzKiivsRJBm/xaO3yr5DbuAikVBC2mQ3WhwAeTmcqOzZEcz1/XpIhGxffAxLEgeHwzqB96kNsdAuDB9B/kwj77yIuuc= ; Message-ID: <015c01c65a8e$718e39c0$4b01a8c0@colin5fc9e2583> Reply-To: "Colin Quinney" From: "Colin Quinney" To: Cc: References: <200604071817.k37IH3Tc037443@mail1.mx.voyager.net> <00fd01c65a79$272ef7d0$6501a8c0@GEH> <00d701c65a7c$395cb7a0$4b01a8c0@colin5fc9e2583> <012501c65a88$aaa5c300$6501a8c0@GEH> Subject: Re: What *IS* Magnetism? Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 17:58:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 Resent-Message-ID: <3U8fDB.A.sPE.YCuNEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67444 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends5 Status: O X-Status: Hi George, Trying to visualize the set-up.. Could you please describe, "long single layer" ? What is the shape of the cap? If we were to slice it, would we be cutting a "C"-shaped section from the toroid or is the toroid closed, like a pipe? Colin ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Holz" Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 5:17 PM > An experiment I would like to do is > to spin a charged long single layer hi K high voltage > capacitor inside a toroid made of soft magnetic material. > A large ac voltage should be induced on a coil wound on the > toroid. Loading the coil should induce a drag force on the > spinning capacitor. > > George From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 7 15:42:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k37MgH38000996; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 15:42:17 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k37MgF8F000980; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 15:42:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 15:42:15 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=ix.netcom.com; b=OqmFWr3QeVEg9IJGL0jLi+Eetw7G4MLwEHniZ7mPrW0SLnDKYDgw7+W7nfhshZgP; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006457224238260@ix.netcom.com> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: aki@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.1.47.0 (Windows) From: "" To: "vortex-l" Subject: FW: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday April 7, 2006 Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 15:42:38 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: c4cc7f5f697e8746f66dc3a06d5924d88ec1941aaaa94817ee0eb3fee88e2f45548b785378294e88350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 216.175.99.229 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67445 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: forward by aki@ix.netcom.com (Akira Kawasaki) > [Original Message] > From: What's New To: Date: 4/7/2006 2:30:15 PM Subject: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday April 7, 2006 WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 7 Apr 06 Washington, DC 1. MISSING LINK: FILLING IN ALL THOSE "GAPS" IN DARWIN'S THEORY. Every attempt to require public schools to teach alternatives to evolution has emphasized the "gaps" in Darwin's theory. In 1859, when Darwin published "The Origin of Species," it was all gaps. It was Darwin's theory that gave organization to the collecting of fossils, creating the science of paleontology. The only surprise is how complete the fossil record has gotten in only 150 years. Two reports in yesterday's issue of Nature, beautifully bridged a remaining gap. Fossils of a 375-million-year-old fish were found in the Canadian arctic, 600 miles from the North Pole. It was a fish with a swivel head, a wrist and an elbow, clearly a transition between fish and land-dwelling animals. It seems to be a perfect candidate for the hypothesized intermediate species. 2. MISSING GENES: FINDING THE KEY THAT OPENS DARWIN'S BLACK BOX. It was a lousy day for intelligent design, which has had a lot of bad days lately. Even as a missing link showed up on the pages of Nature, a report in Science from the University of Oregon showed how a new hormone-receptor pair evolved. An existing molecule, created for a different role, was recruited to do the new job. The lead author, Joseph Thornton, believes this may be common in the evolution of complex systems. Hormone-receptor pairs would seem to be an example of what intelligent-design guru Michael Behe calls "irreducible complexity" (ID). One without the other would be useless. However, Behe scoffed to the NY Times that Hormone-receptor pairs aren't really ID. Either he's still a little cranky from the Dover trial, or he just prefers miracles http://bobpark.physics.umd.edu/WN05/wn102105.html . 3. MIRACLES: A "SCIENTIFIC EXPLANATION" OF WALKING ON WATER? According to yesterday's Wash Post, Israeli and U.S. scientists suggest that when Jesus walked on water he may have just been on floating ice from a cold snap. I don't know who these scientists are, but is this what scientists do? Let's see, he might also have been walking on a submerged UFO. Or maybe it didn't happen. 4. BELOW THE BIBLE BELT: IS A BIBLE THEME PARK LIKE A CHURCH? Florida is considering exempting them from taxes. Could you leave your nativity scene up all year round and deduct it? 4. GLOBAL WARMING: THE HEAT IS COMING FROM THE BUSH WHITE HOUSE. Two months ago, NASA climate scientist James Hansen was pressured to cool it http://bobpark.physics.umd.edu/WN06/wn021006.html . The White House appointee in NASA public relations who pressured him has since been fired for inflating his resume. Michael Griffin has now issued a new policy allowing NASA scientists to speak their minds as long as they give their bosses notice. Yesterday, however, a Wash Post story reported that other scientists doing climate research for the government complain that they're also being muzzled by the Bush administration. THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND. Opinions are the author's and not necessarily shared by the University of Maryland, but they should be. --- Archives of What's New can be found at http://www.bobpark.org What's New is moving to a different listserver and our subscription process has changed. To change your subscription status please visit this link: http://listserv.umd.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=bobparks-whatsnew&A=1 From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 7 15:51:33 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k37MpLuM004307; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 15:51:22 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k37MpJMv004272; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 15:51:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 15:51:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 18:51:10 -0400 From: George Holz Subject: Re: What *IS* Magnetism? To: "vortex-l@eskimo.com" Message-id: <015601c65a95$c4724d50$6501a8c0@GEH> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1506 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <200604071817.k37IH3Tc037443@mail1.mx.voyager.net> <00fd01c65a79$272ef7d0$6501a8c0@GEH> <00d701c65a7c$395cb7a0$4b01a8c0@colin5fc9e2583> <012501c65a88$aaa5c300$6501a8c0@GEH> <015c01c65a8e$718e39c0$4b01a8c0@colin5fc9e2583> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67446 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Colin wrote: > Could you please describe, "long single layer" ? > What is the shape of the cap? > If we were to slice it, would we be cutting a "C"-shaped section from the > toroid or is the toroid closed, like a pipe? The idea is to separate the charges by a distance greater than the thickness of the toroid. Imagine a rod of high K material with metal electrodes at both ends. The toroid is complete and wound with a coil in the normal transformer manner. The center of the rod capacitor is aligned with a line through the center of the toroid. The capacitor rotates so that + and - ends switch positions to alternate sides of the loop formed by the toroid. The result should excite the toroid with a charge motion equivalent to an excitation winding driven by ac current. We should get a transformer with electrical output and mechanical input. The efficiency should be quite high but the magnetics portion would still have some losses. George From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 7 16:53:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k37Nr5lj028721; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 16:53:07 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k37NquEu028656; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 16:52:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 16:52:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 19:52:07 -0400 Message-Id: <8C828B569E7B980-2ACC-2BF@mblkn-m05.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <20060407174921.ZHQI9593.tomts31-srv.bellnexxia.net@MHNDESK> <8C828848BE20E0F-25F8-18333@mblkn-m14.sysops.aol.com> <01nd32lplcfrpraeqa68phqikr1nd614km@4ax.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <01nd32lplcfrpraeqa68phqikr1nd614km@4ax.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: EEStor Patent(was: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.69 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67447 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Robin van Spaandonk Anyone foolish enough to link up with this idiot of car maker will probably go broke. <><><><><><><> Chill, Robin. They are the only game in town (at least in NA) at the moment. We have a community here in the Atlanta metropolitan area called "Peachtree City" where people get around in golf carts. It is actually a nice place to live. I have yet to see what was shown at the EEStor open house. They are not yet web active . . . unless they sell T-Shirts. (baby steps . . . baby steps) I think EEStor was looking for a "demonstration unit". They probably dumped the LA battery for the "bettery. I suspect it made them look quite good compared to the battery. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 7 18:45:21 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k381jDwu002245; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 18:45:14 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k381jBcK002227; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 18:45:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 18:45:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 19:44:41 -0600 Message-Id: <200604071944.AA239468702@mail1.myexcel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "Jeff and Dorothy Kooistra" Reply-To: X-Sender: To: Subject: Re: What *IS* Magnetism? X-Mailer: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67448 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Guys, All of this is old, old, old. Look back to the era pre the 1920s when E&M was where all the big boys played. Also, the idea that magnetism is the result of relativity is discredited in Jefimenko, rather effectively. Jeff Kooistra From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 7 20:20:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k383KSet001553; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 20:20:28 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k383KQeT001532; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 20:20:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 20:20:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 23:20:24 -0400 Message-Id: <8C828D282B1D1DB-19E8-19BC5@mblkn-m19.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <200604071944.AA239468702@mail1.myexcel.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <200604071944.AA239468702@mail1.myexcel.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: What *IS* Magnetism? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.137 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67450 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jeff All of this is old, old, old. Look back to the era pre the 1920s when E&M was where all the big boys played. Also, the idea that magnetism is the result of relativity is discredited in Jefimenko, rather effectively. <><><><><><> I can think of a half dozen things that magnetism ISN'T. "Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." Can you tell us what magnetism is? Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 7 20:58:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k383wOMx013508; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 20:58:25 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k383wL1o013482; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 20:58:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 20:58:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 23:53:18 -0400 From: fznidarsic@aol.com Message-Id: <8C828D71AED22B1-B90-236B@FWM-R32.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 17147 Subject: Re: What *IS* Magnetism? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MailBlocks_8C828D71AE85E01_B90_25FB_FWM-R32.sysops.aol.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 152.163.181.136 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67451 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----------MailBlocks_8C828D71AE85E01_B90_25FB_FWM-R32.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BTW, Terry, the forces of gravity have worked their magic on my body as well. Whatever follicles I had sprouting on the top of my head in youth have now migrated to lower latitudes - including my ear canals. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks I can't tell you what magnitism in terms of a simpler explaination. It may be the simplist substance that there is. I can, however, tell you that it is needed. The conservation of momentum and a light speed limit demand that there be an electromagnetic, gravitomagnetic, and nuclear spin orbit force. If an electron of an interacting pair is moved there will be an inbalance in the force between them. This imbalance will last until the disturbance caused by the movement propagates from one electron to the other. During this period the orginal static field cannot conserve the momentum of the sytem. A short range dynamic field jumps in and conserves the momentum of the system. This short range field is the mageitic field. Nature goes a long way to conserve momentum. My analysis on the subject is at: http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chapter6.html enjoy Frank Znidarsic ----------MailBlocks_8C828D71AE85E01_B90_25FB_FWM-R32.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
BTW, Terry, the forces of gravity have worked their magic on my body as well. Whatever follicles I had sprouting on the top of my head in youth have now migrated to lower latitudes - including my ear canals.

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks
 
 
I can't tell you what magnitism in terms of a simpler explaination.  It may be the simplist substance that there is.  I can, however, tell you that it is needed.  The conservation of momentum and a light speed limit demand that there be an electromagnetic, gravitomagnetic, and nuclear spin orbit force.  If an electron of an interacting pair is moved there will be an inbalance in the force between them.  This imbalance will last until the disturbance caused by the movement propagates from one electron to the other.  During this period the orginal static field cannot conserve the momentum of the sytem.  A short range dynamic field jumps in and conserves the momentum of the system.  This short range field is the mageitic field.  Nature goes a long way to conserve momentum.  My analysis on the subject is at:
 
 
enjoy
 
Frank Znidarsic
----------MailBlocks_8C828D71AE85E01_B90_25FB_FWM-R32.sysops.aol.com-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 8 00:21:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k387LVw4015068; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 00:21:32 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k387LQ6e015022; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 00:21:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 00:21:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 03:21:33 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: EEStor Patent(was: Simple comparison electric car versus gasoline) In-reply-to: <01nd32lplcfrpraeqa68phqikr1nd614km@4ax.com> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67452 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A maximum speed of 25mph(40kph) is kinda slow even for city driving. Harry >> >> <><><><><><><> >> >> http://tyler.blogware.com/blog/_archives/2006/3/29 >> >> http://www.feelgoodcars.com/ From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 8 02:02:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k38925tj023474; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 02:02:06 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k389239t023452; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 02:02:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 02:02:03 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060408090200731.B273AB000084@mwinf3213.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060408090201.00a18ec0@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 10:02:01 +0100 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: EEStor Patent(was: Simple comparison electric car versusgasoline) Resent-Message-ID: <1dVMD.A.YuF.Lw3NEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67453 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:21 am 08/04/2006 -0500, you wrote: >A maximum speed of 25mph(40kph) is kinda slow even for city driving. > >Harry Reminds me of the time I was driving along a suburban road in the dark at 25 mph and I was stopped by a WPC (woman police constable) who thought I must be drunk. I explained I was just being careful not to run into the width restrictions that turned the road into one long chicane. I offered to blow into the alcohol test bag but she could see I was just an eccentric old bugger and let me go without further hassle. ;-) Grimey From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 8 04:35:01 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k38BYod5008820; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 04:34:50 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k38BYm4i008801; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 04:34:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 04:34:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=FAdpOHtEK9mk4jW2pih0obh+zYd+xP2s3plUnx0AQagpBq5BIH/WgxoHaif0gxpK; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006468113443368@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 05:34:43 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94028544026352cfd876206a989e9235d4a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.240 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67454 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Buehler achieved 18% weight reduction at ~1.59 Megavolts/meter (~ 79,000 volts @ 0.05 meter plate spacing on a total plate weight of 1.75 kg, @ 6.3 joules per cubic meter). Had he been able to push the energy density up to 35 joules per cubic meter (3.75 Megavolts ) total weightlessness might have been achieved. A Vacuum globe-in-globe unit weighing 1.75 kg with the right spacing and voltage with zip artifacts should achieve weightlessness and more. The 35 + joules can be gotten from a cell phone battery inside the inner globe if you can step it's voltage up to 3.75 Megavolts @ 1.0 microampere AC or DC. The 40,000 joules required to levitate about 4 tonnes can be gotten using a car battery. OTOH, Commercially Available LINACs can get the necessary short burst of milliampere electron injection into the inner globe to give it the required charge. The Klystron delivering about 6 MW at a microwave frequency of 2856 MHz can put lots of joules per cubic meter into high Q (~ 0.1 meter diameter) Cavity Resonators. This 10 MeV @ 10 KW is A Lot More than required. :-) http://www.dae.gov.in/ni/nijan03/page4.htm Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Buehler achieved 18% weight reduction at ~1.59 Megavolts/meter (~ 79,000 volts @ 0.05 meter plate spacing
on a total plate weight of 1.75 kg,  @ 6.3 joules per cubic meter).
Had he been able to push the energy density up to 35 joules per cubic meter (3.75 Megavolts ) total
weightlessness might have been achieved.
A Vacuum globe-in-globe unit  weighing 1.75 kg with the right spacing and voltage with zip artifacts
should achieve weightlessness and more.
 
The 35  + joules can be gotten from a cell phone battery inside the inner globe if you can step it's
voltage  up to 3.75 Megavolts @ 1.0 microampere AC or DC. 
 
The 40,000 joules required to levitate about 4 tonnes can be gotten using a car battery.
 
OTOH, Commercially Available LINACs can get the necessary short burst of milliampere
electron injection into the inner globe to give it the required charge.
 
The Klystron delivering about 6 MW at a microwave frequency of 2856 MHz can put
lots of joules per cubic meter into high Q  (~ 0.1 meter diameter) Cavity Resonators.
 
This 10 MeV @ 10 KW is A Lot More than required.  :-)
 
 
Fred
 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 8 05:12:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k38CCjHH022169; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 05:12:46 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k38CCiUn022141; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 05:12:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 05:12:44 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2006-03-10) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.6 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Message-ID: <001601c65b05$a2146ed0$11027841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: Subjective design component faced in hybrid autos Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 07:11:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C65ADB.B894B950" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67455 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C65ADB.B894B950 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0013_01C65ADB.B8963FF0" ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C65ADB.B8963FF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankHowdy Vorts, Reading Grimer's ( Grimey) account of his near falling into the clutches = of an WPC provides an excellent intro to the subjective component faced = in hybrid auto design. The problem is the thing looks like an automobile ! =20 When Kaman teased the world for months prior to "unleashing" his Segway = on the poor unsuspecting public.. his error was not in marketing and = hype.. or even the price.. his mistake was the thing looked like a = scooter. At least Buck Roger's cartoonist knew one must never attempt to sell ice = to Eskimos and a rocket ship must have fire trailiing. An electric hybrid must first have a name of its own and the name must = subjectively fit the preconceived mental picture of the device.=20 Subjective design, who knows....??? Grimer may have been ticketed or = worse.. abused.. by a lady in uniform.. hold the thought.. preconceived = notions lead to all sorts of mental pics. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C65ADB.B8963FF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Howdy Vorts,
 
Reading Grimer's ( Grimey) account of his near falling into the = clutches of=20 an WPC provides an excellent intro to the subjective component faced in = hybrid=20 auto design.
 
The problem is the thing looks like an automobile ! 
 
When Kaman teased the world for months prior to "unleashing" his = Segway on=20 the poor unsuspecting public..  his error was not in marketing and = hype..=20 or even the price.. his mistake was  the thing  looked like a=20 scooter.
 
At least Buck Roger's cartoonist knew one must never attempt to = sell ice to=20 Eskimos and a rocket ship must have fire trailiing.
 
An electric hybrid must first have a name of its own and the name = must=20 subjectively fit the preconceived mental picture of the device.
 
Subjective design, who knows....??? Grimer may have been ticketed = or=20 worse.. abused.. by a lady in uniform.. hold the thought.. preconceived = notions=20 lead to all sorts of mental pics.
 
Richard

 

------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C65ADB.B8963FF0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C65ADB.B894B950 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <001101c65b05$a1449bb0$11027841@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C65ADB.B894B950-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 8 05:37:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k38Caqm7031406; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 05:36:53 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k38CaoiY031380; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 05:36:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 05:36:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=I88Pbo57emZS27426oqOWQthl64e8rfB+YvFuM4Ok9uBv5sEtcrwqt+Nx1bT0LrJ; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200646812363853@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 06:36:38 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940e1d00f98ddbd2ef535354ae1df752488350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.166 Resent-Message-ID: <8ZVvNC.A.PqH.i56NEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67456 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Electric field energies E of 442 to 1,000 joules per cubic meter is doable with 10 to 16 Megavolts per meter E Fields W = 1/2 eo* E^2. At these vacuum energy densities weight isn't a problem, and craft like those in the movie "Independence Day" are possible. A 3 meter (~ 10 ft dia) inner globe inside a 4 meter (~ 13 ft dia) outer globe with 1.5 millimeter (~ 0.060 inch) aluminum wall thickness is a nice size for the centerpiece to build that aerodynamically streamlined 4 tonne "sports model" flying saucer shape around. If it don't fly it will add to the Roswell tourist trade. :-) Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 4/8/2006 5:35:17 AM Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields Buehler achieved 18% weight reduction at ~1.59 Megavolts/meter (~ 79,000 volts @ 0.05 meter plate spacing on a total plate weight of 1.75 kg, @ 6.3 joules per cubic meter). Had he been able to push the energy density up to 35 joules per cubic meter (3.75 Megavolts ) total weightlessness might have been achieved. A Vacuum globe-in-globe unit weighing 1.75 kg with the right spacing and voltage with zip artifacts should achieve weightlessness and more. The 35 + joules can be gotten from a cell phone battery inside the inner globe if you can step it's voltage up to 3.75 Megavolts @ 1.0 microampere AC or DC. The 40,000 joules required to levitate about 4 tonnes can be gotten using a car battery. OTOH, Commercially Available LINACs can get the necessary short burst of milliampere electron injection into the inner globe to give it the required charge. The Klystron delivering about 6 MW at a microwave frequency of 2856 MHz can put lots of joules per cubic meter into high Q (~ 0.1 meter diameter) Cavity Resonators. This 10 MeV @ 10 KW Electron LINAC is A Lot More than required. :-) http://www.dae.gov.in/ni/nijan03/page4.htm Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Electric field energies E of 442 to 1,000 joules per cubic meter is doable
with 10 to 16 Megavolts per meter E Fields W = 1/2 eo* E^2.
 
At these vacuum energy densities weight isn't a problem, and
craft like those in the movie "Independence Day" are possible.
 
A 3 meter (~ 10 ft dia) inner globe inside a 4 meter (~ 13 ft dia) outer globe
with  1.5 millimeter (~ 0.060 inch) aluminum wall thickness is a nice size
for the centerpiece to build that aerodynamically streamlined 4 tonne "sports model"
flying saucer shape around.
If it don't fly it will add to the Roswell tourist trade.   :-)
 
Fred 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/8/2006 5:35:17 AM
Subject: Re: Electrogravity From Accelerated B Fields

Buehler achieved 18% weight reduction at ~1.59 Megavolts/meter (~ 79,000 volts @ 0.05 meter plate spacing
on a total plate weight of 1.75 kg,  @ 6.3 joules per cubic meter).
Had he been able to push the energy density up to 35 joules per cubic meter (3.75 Megavolts ) total
weightlessness might have been achieved.
A Vacuum globe-in-globe unit  weighing 1.75 kg with the right spacing and voltage with zip artifacts
should achieve weightlessness and more.
 
The 35  + joules can be gotten from a cell phone battery inside the inner globe if you can step it's
voltage  up to 3.75 Megavolts @ 1.0 microampere AC or DC. 
 
The 40,000 joules required to levitate about 4 tonnes can be gotten using a car battery.
 
OTOH, Commercially Available LINACs can get the necessary short burst of milliampere
electron injection into the inner globe to give it the required charge.
 
The Klystron delivering about 6 MW at a microwave frequency of 2856 MHz can put
lots of joules per cubic meter into high Q  (~ 0.1 meter diameter) Cavity Resonators.
 
This 10 MeV @ 10 KW Electron LINAC is A Lot More than required.  :-)
 
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 8 07:29:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k38ESxq6006453; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 07:29:00 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k38ESvQM006423; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 07:28:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 07:28:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 10:23:48 -0400 Message-Id: <8C8292F2F674E10-28A8-B1A4@mblkn-m02.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <8C828D71AED22B1-B90-236B@FWM-R32.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <8C828D71AED22B1-B90-236B@FWM-R32.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: What *IS* Magnetism? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.66 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k38EStYc006402 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67457 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: fznidarsic@aol.com Nature goes a long way to conserve momentum.  My analysis on the subject is at:   http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chapter6.html <><><><><><> Thanks, I'll read it. Nature, eh? Is Nature herself conservative? Or, does she have a large purse from which to draw? Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 8 09:23:34 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k38GNOe1023817; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 09:23:24 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k38GNMEL023798; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 09:23:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 09:23:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060408162318949.E7A9B900008B@mwinf3207.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060408162319.00a11950@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 17:23:19 +0100 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: What *IS* Magnetism? Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67458 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: For the record. 8-) Once one realises that materials are held together at all scales by external pressures and not internal tensions, and that we are dealing with a full plenum (turtles all the way) it becomes perfectly obvious what magnetism is. It is the flow of substance between a source and a sink. In other words, it's an elephant. Frank Grimer As for nature's purse, it's not merely large. It's limitless. 8-) From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 8 09:43:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k38Ge1Ge000930; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 09:42:45 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k38GVjgV029035; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 09:31:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 09:31:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060408163143657.A07DD8000083@mwinf3214.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060408163144.00a2611c@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 17:31:44 +0100 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Subjective design component faced in hybrid autos Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67459 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:11 am 08/04/2006 -0500, Richard wrote: > Howdy Vorts, > > Reading Grimer's ( Grimey) account of his near falling > into the clutches of an WPC provides an excellent intro > to the subjective component faced in hybrid auto design. > > The problem is the thing looks like an automobile ! > > When Kaman teased the world for months prior to > "unleashing" his Segway on the poor unsuspecting > public.. his error was not in marketing and hype.. > or even the price.. his mistake was the thing > looked like a scooter..... ......or even worse, a pogo-stick with wheels. 8-( From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 8 10:03:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k38H3D86010528; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 10:03:14 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k38H3CQg010503; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 10:03:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 10:03:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 13:03:11 -0400 Message-Id: <8C8294573BD31D1-2AB0-1338C@mblkn-m17.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <2.2.32.20060408162319.00a11950@pop.freeserve.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.20060408162319.00a11950@pop.freeserve.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: What *IS* Magnetism? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.135 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67460 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Grimer It is the flow of substance between a source and a sink. <><><><><><> And the pump is . . . ? ;-) ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 8 12:10:21 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k38JAFpC027582; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 12:10:16 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k38J9nDM027451; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 12:09:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 12:09:49 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 15:09:58 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: What *IS* Magnetism? In-reply-to: <8C8292F2F674E10-28A8-B1A4@mblkn-m02.sysops.aol.com> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: <86UFNC.A.3sG.8pAOEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67461 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The conservation momentum is ideal as a perpetual erection. Science has gone a long way to conserve momentum...can science keep it up? ...should science keep it? Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 8 12:22:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k38JLun1032721; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 12:21:57 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k38JLtr6032700; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 12:21:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 12:21:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060408192152889.D932C2400089@mwinf3201.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060408192153.009ac3d8@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 20:21:53 +0100 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: What *IS* Magnetism? Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67462 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:03 pm 08/04/2006 -0400, Terry wrote: > > >-----Original Message----- > From: Grimer > > It is the flow of substance between a source and a sink. > ><><><><><><> > > And the pump is . . . ? > >;-) I thought you'd never ask. The pumps are driven by the fine scale radiation powering the Electro-Magnetic cycle. You are no doubt familiar with the water-cycle driven by the planetary solar radiation. Vapour rises and rain falls. There's a two way flow between electron and positron. Why else do you think this discussion group is named Vortex. Well the EM cycle is driven by galactic radiation, by the galactic "sun" at the centre of our galaxy. ZPE is one manifestation of that radiation. Bloody obvious when one recognises the hierarchical pattern of things and its significance. 8-) Cheers, Frank Grimer From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 8 12:28:43 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k38JSNps003081; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 12:28:23 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k38JSAk2003000; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 12:28:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 12:28:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060408192808400.61B4D9000086@mwinf3207.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060408192809.00a10a68@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 20:28:09 +0100 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: What *IS* Magnetism? Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67463 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:09 pm 08/04/2006 -0500, you wrote: > > >The conservation momentum is ideal as a perpetual erection. > >Science has gone a long way to conserve momentum...can science keep it up? >...should science keep it? > >Harry Conservation Laws arise from the way things are defined. They are prescriptive not descriptive. Like accountant's books, the numbers always balance because they are made to balance. Ultimately, conservation laws must be reducible to a tautology. Frank From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 8 12:42:24 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k38JgClU008355; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 12:42:12 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k38JgAXE008336; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 12:42:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 12:42:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Gq5rD5Z3jK5UY9ZQ9bQTTROOmaOcYXJ450PbZaq1yid5VZ04Ta55z2Iqy+Lpc5EE; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006468194154511@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re; Flux Capacitors and Space-Time Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 13:41:54 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940e336d4312d5e21e7a2c62d56d9521902350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.120.162 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67464 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Regarding concentric sphere capacitors: Electric field energy densities of 442 to 1,000 joules per cubic meter are doable with Electric Fields (E) of 10 to 16 Megavolts per meter: Might it be possible that high energy densities alter Space-Time? When that threshold "vortex" energy is reached you pop into another dimension, and travel like Doctor Who in his phone booth? Frank Grimer's Elephant, or Terry's investigations of strange phenomena? Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Regarding concentric sphere capacitors:
 
Electric field energy densities of 442 to 1,000 joules per cubic meter are doable
with Electric Fields (E) of 10 to 16 Megavolts per meter:
 
Might it be possible that high energy densities alter Space-Time?
 
When that  threshold "vortex" energy is reached you pop  into another
dimension, and travel like Doctor Who in his phone booth?
 
Frank Grimer's Elephant, or Terry's investigations of strange phenomena?  
 
Fred
 
 
 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 8 13:31:31 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k38KVHDu026230; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 13:31:18 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k38KVGLn026221; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 13:31:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 13:31:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 16:31:21 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: What *IS* Magnetism? In-reply-to: <2.2.32.20060408192809.00a10a68@pop.freeserve.net> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67465 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Grimer wrote: > At 03:09 pm 08/04/2006 -0500, you wrote: >> >> >> The conservation momentum is ideal as a perpetual erection. >> >> Science has gone a long way to conserve momentum...can science keep it up? >> ...should science keep it? >> >> Harry > > > Conservation Laws arise from the way things are defined. > > They are prescriptive not descriptive. > > Like accountant's books, the numbers always balance because > they are made to balance. > > Ultimately, conservation laws must be reducible to a tautology. > > Frank > Yes... so the theoretical physicist should be more concerned with descriptions of matter rather than with prescriptions for matter. Since some descriptions are incompatible with some prescriptions, the primary focus of the experimental physicist should be testing alternate descriptions of matter rather than testing the 'truth' of a particular prescription. Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 8 13:45:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k38KjYvV031968; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 13:45:34 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k38KjWHl031947; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 13:45:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 13:45:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 16:45:29 -0400 Message-Id: <8C8296481953EBF-28A8-BB2A@mblkn-m02.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <2.2.32.20060408192153.009ac3d8@pop.freeserve.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.20060408192153.009ac3d8@pop.freeserve.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: What *IS* Magnetism? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.66 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67466 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Grimer Well the EM cycle is driven by galactic radiation, by the galactic "sun" at the centre of our galaxy. ZPE is one manifestation of that radiation. <><><><><><><> In the northern hemisphere hurricanes rotate widdershins; whereas, those downunder rotate clockwise. I wonder what determines a spiral galaxy rotational direction? Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 7 19:50:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k382oERb021989; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 19:50:15 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k382oCON021952; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 19:50:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 19:50:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:Cc:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=KkE71Sg5MK4jNmiYcgF3/6D96Szv3986paJT7Fr+N6SedDkKnEqwCmQBt8qfBhc9+KnoZSUggHRgbHaTjaUApmsm02MgdD36AC1i/ijJu90R8vaEsZjBEgxWyu7TCC1R8DB5YryR6l4/L67RB6rC4SGNrrS5N8z6kKgMpx9jDLs= ; Message-ID: <021501c65ab7$27130230$4b01a8c0@colin5fc9e2583> Reply-To: "Colin Quinney" From: "Colin Quinney" To: Cc: References: <200604071944.AA239468702@mail1.myexcel.com> Subject: Re: What *IS* Magnetism? Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 22:50:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67449 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends5 Status: RO X-Status: But.. but ... " it is difficult to abandon the familiar and very comfortable concept of electromagnetic induction as a phenomena where one of the two fields creates the other. It is difficult to accept that this concept is illusory." {Oleg D. Jefimenko, September 1, 1991} Colin :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff and Dorothy Kooistra" To: Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 9:44 PM Subject: Re: What *IS* Magnetism? > Guys, > > All of this is old, old, old. Look back to the era pre the 1920s when E&M > was where all the big boys played. Also, the idea that magnetism is the > result of relativity is discredited in Jefimenko, rather effectively. > > Jeff Kooistra > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 8 15:26:08 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k38MPvBU006312; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 15:25:57 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k38MPu7U006298; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 15:25:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 15:25:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=JOYVr1Q4+DtTz/PQ9Vew6dlxzHYt1bijPZ4Wze513iCFDMgTvDj1JvnEQSsBMmoJ78wnYlqALjygKWbqV1SDtOPEu4reAMkvfxQ8v0xPajykoeVGLxy2Hhuf+zUN3oLQ+5xfKlXudmy/IRcaAj8yPgaLA07mATdUBUY1HqdXksE= ; Message-ID: <20060408222555.93173.qmail@web32808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 15:25:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Harvey Norris Subject: Re: What *IS* Magnetism? To: vortex-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <8C828809E1E116A-2060-A208@mblkn-m11.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67467 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --- hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote: > How come the Aussies have the best explanations for > things: > > http://www.ph.unimelb.edu.au/~dnj/teaching/160mag/160mag.htm > > "The imbalance in the linear charge densities > between the positive > metal ions and the moving electrons, measured in the > reference frame of > the moving charge, is a result of the Lorentz > contraction due to the > relative motions of the nearby charged particle, the > electrons flowing > in the wire and the metal ions. This relativistic > effect is perhaps > most familiar to us when applied to fast moving > objects. Let us see how > fast the electrons are moving in a typical current > carrying wire. In a > copper wire the density of copper atoms is about > 8.5x10^22 atoms per > cubic centimetre, and hence the density of free > electrons is about the > same. In a copper wire with a cross sectional area > of 1 square > millimetre and carrying a current of 10 Amps the > formula for v given > above shows that the electron velocity is only 0.7 > millimetres per > second. This is an extremely small velocity! The > Lorentz contraction > for such a small velocity differs from 1 by only > 3x10^-24. This > unimaginably small contraction is nevertheless > sufficient to cause a > slight imbalance in the positive and negative charge > densities of the > wire that causes moving charged particles to feel a > magnetic force. " > > Terry Concerning the relativity of a unpaired ferromagnetic electron spin and its macroscopic spin in space as a larger collection of such spins, one only needs to rotate an unenergized electromagnet using a ferrous material for its core, and a gyroscopic reaction force will act on these unpaired electron spins. This causes the macroscopic (ferrous) piece in rotational spin to emit magnetism. The unpaired electron spins in the wrong angle of spin are "gyroscopically forced" to collectively sum to show a magnetic effect whereby the random collection of angled spins are "tilted" by the gyroscopic effect so that a large collection of total spins will be in the same angle thus establishing magnetism by ferromagnetic macroscopic spin alone. The best example of this is to take an AC car alternator attached to a motive source, and to note the stator output with loads attached WITHOUT the field being energized by an exterior EMF. The example I have worked with; ( a small Delco Remy model with diodes removed) has a 7 pole face rotor meaning that 7 cycles will be induced on the stator windings for every rotation of the field pole faces. For a spin establishing 480 hz I can obtain at least a one amp short on two phases, and about .75 A on all three phases. The open circuit voltage on the phases will be just below 2 volts. Unfortunately one has to be a sort of detective to determine whether other sources would be responsible for this performance. Since the stator windings actually see a change of inductance with the rotation of the pole faces vs air gap and field poles circulating under the stator ring; the stator windings also see a varying inductance over time, making the device a sort of parametric generator. Also the argument of "remanent magnetism" of the pole faces is used to explain away these stator output effects. But experimentation can dispell some of these myths. In order to make the alternator output ZERO power; a DC current can be sent through the field that will be opposite to the magnetic field caused by rotational magnetism alone. Here we are actually sending power in the device in the form of field magnetism, to cause the device to quit emitting power on the stator windings. To do this we have essentially "demagnetised" the field rotor to cancel the magnetism created by rotation. However the moment this cancelling effect is removed, the field once again emits its rotational magnetism, which in turn emits power from the stator windings. Yes, incredibly it is necessary for field energy to be sent in to stop the alternator from displaying power output. Dr. Wrongway would be impressed. But the Word "Remanent Magnetism" implies something being remembered as a past magnetic influence. Here the past magnetic effect was one of demagnetisation, so why does magnetism resume itself after its cause of demagnetisation is removed? This more or less detroys the remanent magnetism argument, but not completely. If we continue in magnetising the field in the wrong direction beyond that which cancels the rotational magnetism effect, so that once again after crossing the zero point of stator output cancellation, we once again succeed in producing a (highly inneffient)power output, if the power to the field is again reduced to the point where it formerely produced zero output on the stator windings, now we find this to be untrue; by magnetising the field in the wrong rotational direction, this Dr. Wrongway method has produced an effect whereby the SPIN itself remembers its past effect of magnetisation. The spin essentially maintains, Or "remembers" the magnetic effect superimposed upon it previously in time. The most fascinating aspect of rotational magnetism is that it can be enhanced in exactly the same way jet turbine technology was developed, by using a controlled stator output/input field feedback loop. Any volume of field magnetism necessary for operation of the alternator within its operational parameters can be secured by this method, also noted in literature as the self energized field. In a nutshell any volume of field magnetism within operational parameters can be created by spin rotation alone. Sincerely HDN Tesla Research Group; Pioneering the Applications of Interphasal Resonances http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/ From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 8 17:05:34 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3905OSw007791; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 17:05:24 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3905M6M007775; Sat, 8 Apr 2006 17:05:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 17:05:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 20:05:18 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C829806B78B3EE-19F0-AEE9@mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Can't Meet Oil Demand . . . Duh! Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.131 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67468 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13130-2124287,00.html "World 'cannot meet oil demand' By Carl Mortished, International Business Editor THE world lacks the means to produce enough oil to meet rising projections of demand for fuel over the next decade, according to Christophe de Margerie, head of exploration for Total and heir presumptive to the leadership of the French energy multinational." WTF has everyone been. Earth's tank is half empty. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 9 01:34:19 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k398Y92P014083; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 01:34:09 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k398Y4jS014055; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 01:34:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 01:34:04 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <0e5f01c65bb0$5af671f0$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <8C829806B78B3EE-19F0-AEE9@mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: Can't Meet Oil Demand . . . Duh! Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 10:34:02 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: <80gx7.A.jbD.8bMOEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67469 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Less than ten years left? Worse than we had been told, and one could expect the head of exploration for a large oil company to know about these things. This leaves us little time to find a replacement technology, come on guys! The good news is that air pollution should fall dramatically within a decade. Michel > http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13130-2124287,00.html > > "World 'cannot meet oil demand' > By Carl Mortished, International Business Editor > > THE world lacks the means to produce enough oil to meet rising projections > of demand for fuel over the next decade, according to Christophe de > Margerie, head of exploration for Total and heir presumptive to the > leadership of the French energy multinational." > > WTF has everyone been. Earth's tank is half empty. > > Terry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 9 05:03:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k39C3CEW023178; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 05:03:12 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k39C38P1023145; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 05:03:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 05:03:08 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=nE1WbV75VkzulJJ2oXOLVwhWi2XyESrJZm5ltxSk2bOxYHP3tCGjRZsgX0vYWhDv; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064091234163@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Charged Nano-Clusters Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 06:03:04 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940e0de1e1bb160c6c3eb38c93731b87026350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.157 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67470 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Nano Carbon too? http://www.fondazione-elba.org/16.htm " followed by a pulsed potentiostatic embedding of metallic nano-cluster (NC), such as copper, palladium and platinum dots." " In the figure a transmission electron micrograph (TEM) of palladium quantum dots (d = 5-7 nm) obtained in our laboratory is shown" http://www.voyle.net/Nano%20Research-05-100+/research-05-0197.htm "Atlanta (September 12, 2005) — Researchers at the Georgia Institute of Technology have uncovered important evidence that explains how water, usually an inhibitor of catalytic reactions, can sometimes promote them. The findings could lead to fewer constraints on reaction conditions potentially leading to the development of lower cost techniques for certain industrially important catalytic reactions. The results appear in the September 6, 2005 issue of Physical Review Letters." " Illustration of reaction turning carbon monoxide (CO) into carbon dioxide (CO 2 ) using a water molecule (H 2 0) to enhance the catalytic activity of an eight-atom nanocluster of gold. Color key: oxygen atoms = red; hydrogen atoms = white; carbon atoms = aquamarine; gold atoms = gold; and magnesium atoms = green." ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Nano Carbon too?
 
 
" followed by a pulsed potentiostatic embedding of metallic nano-cluster (NC), such as copper, palladium and platinum dots."
" In the figure a transmission electron micrograph (TEM) of palladium quantum dots (d = 5-7 nm) obtained in our laboratory is shown"
 
 
"Atlanta (September 12, 2005) — Researchers at the Georgia Institute of Technology have uncovered important evidence that explains how water, usually an inhibitor of catalytic reactions, can sometimes promote them. The findings could lead to fewer constraints on reaction conditions potentially leading to the development of lower cost techniques for certain industrially important catalytic reactions. The results appear in the September 6, 2005 issue of Physical Review Letters."
 
" Illustration of reaction turning carbon monoxide (CO) into carbon dioxide (CO 2 ) using a water molecule (H 2 0) to enhance the catalytic activity of an eight-atom nanocluster of gold. Color key: oxygen atoms = red; hydrogen atoms = white; carbon atoms = aquamarine; gold atoms = gold; and magnesium atoms = green."
 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 9 05:22:24 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k39CMEYJ030604; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 05:22:14 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k39CMCFM030587; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 05:22:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 05:22:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Wuu5gykyd6I+L4xY9wFIavGEbbNZ7Csk8DAvssD042LTPTCIX/FSFCPtqDatVWQs; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200640912221609@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Charged Nano-Clusters Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 06:22:01 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9405a59e46ff81ebbf4b62fe509e766bc5f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.54 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67471 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Methinks somebody better review their chemistry. The well known Shift Reaction: CO + H2O ----> CO2 + H2 is exothermic. and works well in water Thus the steps as shown are off the mark, but interesting. Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/9/2006 6:03:44 AM Subject: Re: Charged Nano-Clusters Nano Carbon too? http://www.fondazione-elba.org/16.htm " followed by a pulsed potentiostatic embedding of metallic nano-cluster (NC), such as copper, palladium and platinum dots." " In the figure a transmission electron micrograph (TEM) of palladium quantum dots (d = 5-7 nm) obtained in our laboratory is shown" http://www.voyle.net/Nano%20Research-05-100+/research-05-0197.htm "Atlanta (September 12, 2005) — Researchers at the Georgia Institute of Technology have uncovered important evidence that explains how water, usually an inhibitor of catalytic reactions, can sometimes promote them. The findings could lead to fewer constraints on reaction conditions potentially leading to the development of lower cost techniques for certain industrially important catalytic reactions. The results appear in the September 6, 2005 issue of Physical Review Letters." " Illustration of reaction turning carbon monoxide (CO) into carbon dioxide (CO 2 ) using a water molecule (H 2 0) to enhance the catalytic activity of an eight-atom nanocluster of gold. Color key: oxygen atoms = red; hydrogen atoms = white; carbon atoms = aquamarine; gold atoms = gold; and magnesium atoms = green." ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Methinks somebody better review their chemistry.
 
The well known Shift Reaction:  CO + H2O ----> CO2 + H2 is exothermic. and works well in water
 
Thus the steps as shown are off the mark, but interesting.
 
Fred
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/9/2006 6:03:44 AM
Subject: Re: Charged Nano-Clusters

Nano Carbon too?
 
 
" followed by a pulsed potentiostatic embedding of metallic nano-cluster (NC), such as copper, palladium and platinum dots."
" In the figure a transmission electron micrograph (TEM) of palladium quantum dots (d = 5-7 nm) obtained in our laboratory is shown"
 
 
"Atlanta (September 12, 2005) — Researchers at the Georgia Institute of Technology have uncovered important evidence that explains how water, usually an inhibitor of catalytic reactions, can sometimes promote them. The findings could lead to fewer constraints on reaction conditions potentially leading to the development of lower cost techniques for certain industrially important catalytic reactions. The results appear in the September 6, 2005 issue of Physical Review Letters."
 
" Illustration of reaction turning carbon monoxide (CO) into carbon dioxide (CO 2 ) using a water molecule (H 2 0) to enhance the catalytic activity of an eight-atom nanocluster of gold. Color key: oxygen atoms = red; hydrogen atoms = white; carbon atoms = aquamarine; gold atoms = gold; and magnesium atoms = green."
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 9 05:23:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k39CNCS2031077; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 05:23:13 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k39CNBfP031056; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 05:23:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 05:23:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <000401c65bd0$5a3c6330$640fa8c0@MIKEBY3NR533HT> From: "Mike Carrell" To: References: <8C829806B78B3EE-19F0-AEE9@mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com> <0e5f01c65bb0$5af671f0$3800a8c0@zothan> Subject: Re: Can't Meet Oil Demand . . . Duh! Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 08:22:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67472 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Jullian" Subject: Re: Can't Meet Oil Demand . . . Duh! > Less than ten years left? Worse than we had been told, and one could > expect the head of exploration for a large oil company to know about these > things. > This leaves us little time to find a replacement technology, come on guys! > > The good news is that air pollution should fall dramatically within a > decade. So why do you think some of us have been doggedly defending 'cold fusion' and BlacklightPower all these years? The latter may be about ready to hatch. The announcement is not that there is *no oil left*, but that the supply can't be increased to meet the demand, which means that prices will rise, tempers will flare, and people might have to change their ways and priorities, driven by that most reliable of all lashes, price. That's just one issue. Potable water is another. Mike Carrell > > Michel > >> http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13130-2124287,00.html >> >> "World 'cannot meet oil demand' >> By Carl Mortished, International Business Editor >> >> THE world lacks the means to produce enough oil to meet rising >> projections of demand for fuel over the next decade, according to >> Christophe de Margerie, head of exploration for Total and heir >> presumptive to the leadership of the French energy multinational." >> >> WTF has everyone been. Earth's tank is half empty. >> >> Terry > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This Email has been scanned for all viruses by Medford Leas I.T. > Department. > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 9 05:48:33 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k39CmMIh008874; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 05:48:22 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k39CmLq6008861; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 05:48:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 05:48:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=G/eKMgzc5vHWLZB4X2bdMx15AGem0DcdY4yy2hW4ulzKpFuf/itcxZ0zZ00GtsMC; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006409124810832@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Can't Meet Oil Demand . . . Duh! Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 06:48:10 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9402e963c13bd0b6db84e3e4f39a6df7f2d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.100 Resent-Message-ID: <5sUWCD.A.ZKC.UKQOEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67473 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dream on, Mike. The Trillions of Barrels of Synthetic Fuels from Utah-Colorado Shale Oil, Wyoming-Montana Coal, Methane Hydrates off the coast of North Carolina, Tar Sands Etc. will boost the global warming to the point that the need won't exist, and Mills and Hot-Cold Fusion folks will be saying, "Don't Panic,We're Almost There". :-( Fred > [Original Message] > From: Mike Carrell > To: > Date: 4/9/2006 6:23:42 AM > Subject: Re: Can't Meet Oil Demand . . . Duh! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michel Jullian" > Subject: Re: Can't Meet Oil Demand . . . Duh! > > > > Less than ten years left? Worse than we had been told, and one could > > expect the head of exploration for a large oil company to know about these > > things. > > This leaves us little time to find a replacement technology, come on guys! > > > > The good news is that air pollution should fall dramatically within a > > decade. > > So why do you think some of us have been doggedly defending 'cold fusion' > and BlacklightPower all these years? The latter may be about ready to hatch. > The announcement is not that there is *no oil left*, but that the supply > can't be increased to meet the demand, which means that prices will rise, > tempers will flare, and people might have to change their ways and > priorities, driven by that most reliable of all lashes, price. That's just > one issue. Potable water is another. > > Mike Carrell > > > > Michel > > > >> http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13130-2124287,00.html > >> > >> "World 'cannot meet oil demand' > >> By Carl Mortished, International Business Editor > >> > >> THE world lacks the means to produce enough oil to meet rising > >> projections of demand for fuel over the next decade, according to > >> Christophe de Margerie, head of exploration for Total and heir > >> presumptive to the leadership of the French energy multinational." > >> > >> WTF has everyone been. Earth's tank is half empty. > >> > >> Terry > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > This Email has been scanned for all viruses by Medford Leas I.T. > > Department. > > > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 9 07:29:14 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k39ET6mn012507; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 07:29:06 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k39ET4S9012497; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 07:29:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 07:29:04 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2006 10:29:00 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C829F913D66777-2F48-22B5A@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <20060408222555.93173.qmail@web32808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: What *IS* Magnetism? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.65 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67474 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Harvey Norris Concerning the relativity of a unpaired ferromagnetic electron spin and its macroscopic spin in space as a larger collection of such spins, one only needs to rotate an unenergized electromagnet using a ferrous material for its core, and a gyroscopic reaction force will act on these unpaired electron spins. <><><><><><><><> This is facinating; and I must certainly try it. I would prefer to use a rotor which has no possibility of remnant magnetism. It would deflect a compas, no? Are the poles of the centripital magnetism axial or radial wrt the rotation? Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 9 07:41:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k39EfZew017055; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 07:41:37 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k39EfNBW016995; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 07:41:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 07:41:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2006 10:41:11 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C829FAC7EDE761-2F48-22BC9@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Naudin's Coanda Effect UFO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.65 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67475 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: More Coanda video: http://jlnlabs.imars.com/gfsuav/n01aflight.htm This time he has remote control! Kewl! ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 9 08:00:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k39F0h6P024056; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 08:00:44 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k39F0fLJ024036; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 08:00:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 08:00:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=ZT39KOS3kuPLFowhoPX+okAqzfPvf9SFe07eIoWNC+XxQG6zSQxwLWKEEsBwW6MX; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200640915022539@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Can't Meet Oil Demand . . . Duh! Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 09:00:22 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940b3910001c8960b02727b3efeba12c049350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.168 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67476 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sorry about the "Reply to" problem, Mike. Mike Carrell wrote: > > As I understand it, extracting shale oil takes immense amounts of water > which is thereby polluted. Am I out of date, or do you have a source of > water to suggest that can be so wasted? And, is the energy extraction > process itself energy efficient? > Fission Nuclear Heat and Electricity for shale oil extraction and inter basin water transport from Lake Powell or The Great Salt Lake plus CO2 is viable if the price is right. > > Wyoming-Montana Coal, Methane Hydrates off the coast of > > North Carolina, Tar Sands Etc. will boost the global warming to > > the point that the need won't exist, and Mills and Hot-Cold Fusion folks > > will be saying, "Don't Panic,We're Almost There". :-( > > You are painting the nightmare of the hot fusion claims, which went on for > decades. Nothing we can do will change the processes already set in motion > toward global warming to the extent that it is due to man's activities. That > is done. What can be done is cope with the consequences and change course > for the future. Of course. > > Cold fusion is not ready from prime time, although the best researchers have > attracted some private investment. Because of the patent problem, that work > is going on without publicity. As far as BLP is concerned, it is much better > organized and may be close to hatching. So are the frogs that can jump out of the Grand Canyon. :-) > > Does Fred have an alternative? > Not as workable as the plans hatched in secret by the DOE-Energy Empire. :-) Fred > > Mike Carrell > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 9 09:09:54 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k39G9epj017644; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 09:09:41 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k39G9dw8017630; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 09:09:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 09:09:39 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=P4FUKXY8abEmEnwCOLQ8H//fp2fcKD3CqYDlJl//mRWtiaGge07u8w4QcIazUh4j; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <4358812.1144598974283.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 12:09:33 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Jed Rothwell Reply-To: Jed Rothwell To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Can't Meet Oil Demand . . . Duh! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 25e7688170aa9857b054f8d56408d260416dc04816f3191c421c1ae3f7cf39052f4ac49b2fe8aa0f2660c3dc9237504a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.24 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67477 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick Sparber writes: >Fission Nuclear Heat and Electricity for shale oil extraction and inter >basin water >transport from Lake Powell or The Great Salt Lake plus CO2 is viable if the >price is right. If you have fission heat and electricity already, why would you bother to convert them into oil? It seems like a losing proposition. The only purpose would be to supply liquid fuel for transporation, and I expect you could do that cheaper by synthesizing hydrocarbons directly, and with plug in hybrids. We are talking about a multibillion dollar investment either way. Why not do it the easy way? - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 9 10:19:55 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k39HJhKd010257; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 10:19:43 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k39HJeC0010241; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 10:19:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 10:19:40 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=U0F8K7eJf1R3D5uaBVZNzcfdu25EDuDYwJsoBjzVrSzAav1mjKOxhseMUUBv7/K4; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006409171932545@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Can't Meet Oil Demand . . . Duh! Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 11:19:32 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940f1828bc490429e245d934c8c0f2de436350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.203 Resent-Message-ID: <0qbt9.A.5fC.sIUOEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67478 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Jed Rothwell writes: > > Frederick Sparber writes: > > >Fission Nuclear Heat and Electricity for shale oil extraction and inter > >basin water > >transport from Lake Powell or The Great Salt Lake plus CO2 is viable if the > >price is right. > > If you have fission heat and electricity already, why would you bother to convert them into oil? It seems like a losing proposition. The only purpose would be to supply liquid fuel for transpiration, and I expect you could do that cheaper by synthesizing hydrocarbons directly, and with plug in hybrids. We are talking about a multi billion dollar investment either way. Why not do it the easy way? > Horse Puckey. You're not turning them into oil, Jed you need the fission reactor heat to drive the Kerogens out of the shale (2 to 15 gallons/ton) mined by 21st century robotics. . The ton of 1000 degree F rock will concurrently make high grade steam. If Southern Cal Edison can pump coal-water slurry the 273 miles from eastern Arizona to Laughlin, Nevada it can be sent to where the "oil" or coal is. Atmospheric O2 for In-Situ Coal Gasification Synfuel production or electrical energy as heat for undersea Methane Hydrate release can come from fission reactors. The average household uses 500-720 KW-Hr/month. Where is the Power Plant-Grid capacity-infrastructure in place to handle "Off-Peak" and instant 50 KW-Hour Hybrid Recharge for ten or more cars at a time at the "gas station"? Fred > > - Jed > > ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Jed Rothwell writes:
>
> Frederick Sparber writes:
>
> >Fission Nuclear Heat and Electricity for shale oil extraction and inter
> >basin water
> >transport from Lake Powell or The Great Salt Lake plus CO2 is viable if the
> >price is right.
>
> If you have fission heat and electricity already, why would you bother to convert them into oil? It seems like a losing proposition. The only purpose would be to supply liquid fuel for transpiration, and I expect you could do that cheaper by synthesizing hydrocarbons directly, and with plug in hybrids. We are talking about a multi billion dollar investment either way. Why not do it the easy way?
>
Horse Puckey.
 
You're not turning them into oil, Jed you need the fission reactor heat to drive the Kerogens out of the shale
(2 to 15 gallons/ton) mined by 21st century robotics. .
The ton of 1000 degree F rock will concurrently make high grade steam. If Southern Cal Edison can pump
coal-water slurry the 273 miles from eastern Arizona to Laughlin, Nevada it can be sent to
where the "oil" or coal is.
Atmospheric O2 for In-Situ Coal Gasification Synfuel production or electrical energy
as heat for undersea Methane Hydrate release can come from fission reactors.
The average household uses 500-720 KW-Hr/month.
Where is the Power Plant-Grid capacity-infrastructure in place to handle "Off-Peak"
and instant 50 KW-Hour Hybrid Recharge for ten or more cars at a time at the "gas station"?
 
Fred
>
> - Jed
>
>
 
 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 9 11:25:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k39IPkJd001306; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 11:25:47 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k39IPjJW001285; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 11:25:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 11:25:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=FZI098VOCIILcCa7g3MLxlaGLzUWMO6Zjlr35g7nipyQ6DF4c+FbJEdt43EkoiPd36452K/bnWXGBmE+1XO5oPO+z/tx/VKioNkMXyRa7cYSgZ6XRxuNd2yAZeMb/jbint6UMp0X3loBUKt3eYUCu/HsWnSNrcQ4DCZtiwDFuhU= ; Message-ID: <20060409182542.87478.qmail@web32805.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 11:25:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Harvey Norris Subject: Re: What *IS* Magnetism? To: vortex-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <8C829F913D66777-2F48-22B5A@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67479 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --- hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote: > This is facinating; and I must certainly try it. I > would prefer to use > a rotor which has no possibility of remnant > magnetism. It would > deflect a compas, no? This might be difficult, realize that this is not just a stable magnetic field in space, but a rotating one. If there was a way to rotate the compass with the rotation of the field rotor, so that both objects had no movement with respect to each other, the effect might be seen, but then of course we might have a problem with the rotation itself affecting the compass in some way. The compass might have a practical use to determine if any remanent magnetism is contained in the field rotor before any rotation takes place. I think the metal used for the pole face rotor is not supposed to be remain magnetised after the magnetic influence is removed. Again a compass needle might show this fact, dont know, never tried it. > Are the poles of the centripital magnetism axial or > radial wrt the > rotation? I sent a attachment jpeg to your email addrees that shows what a field rotor and removed stator ring looks like. I dont think vortex list supports attachments, so I sent it to your email address. Mentally picture an ashtray that has slots in it. The protrusions between the slots are the pole faces. There will be two of these ashtrays facing each other. Each pole face side has all identical poles. Where one side has an empty slot space, the protrusion from the other side fills this empty space. The empty space between this zig zag pattern of opposite poles is called magnetic flux leakage, where the magnetic field must go through empty space in going from a north pole on one side to a south pole on the other side. This flux leakage through space will form a curved bulging in three dimensional space if no other low reluctance magnetic pathway is present. In the function of the alternator, the stator output ring, which surrounds the rotating DC field rotor will provide this additional low reluctance magnetic pathway. The stator ring then contains a changing magnetic flux brought about by the rotation of the DC field rotor. HDN Tesla Research Group; Pioneering the Applications of Interphasal Resonances http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/ From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 9 12:02:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k39J1pni015146; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 12:01:52 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k39J1oHb015124; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 12:01:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 12:01:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=TwP3xp6TyhKZaZxAqL6FNJDLY6gYo8rIVsxC/c3F0n7v4G7zc+SUFjUvYHfv6yGt; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <11884641.1144609309780.JavaMail.root@mswamui-billy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 15:01:49 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Jed Rothwell Reply-To: Jed Rothwell To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Can't Meet Oil Demand . . . Duh! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 25e7688170aa9857b054f8d56408d260416dc04816f3191c50787151dea6e1389c3e31edef7c4fb74478f2c51b9b7af3350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.27 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67480 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick Sparber writes: >You're not turning them into oil, Jed you need the fission reactor heat to drive the Kerogens out of the shale >(2 to 15 gallons/ton) mined by 21st century robotics. . I just do not see the advantage of making synthetic fuel if you already have fission energy. Why not use the heat to generate electricity directly? If you do need some liquid or gas fuel, just use hydrogen. It seems a lot cheaper, if you have the fission power to spare in the first place. Synthetic liquid fuel would be useful if the electricity all comes from a giant thermal farm in Arizona, in the middle of nowhere, but you can build fission plants reasonably close to population centers, so why not use the energy directly? >The average household uses 500-720 KW-Hr/month. >Where is the Power Plant-Grid capacity-infrastructure in place to handle "Off-Peak" >and instant 50 KW-Hour Hybrid Recharge for ten or more cars at a time at the "gas station"? This is not needed. There is no call to recharge a plug in hybrid quickly. It can be done overnight. If you forget, or if you do not have time to recharge, it does not matter. It just means you use more liquid fuel that day, and pay more for transportation. A method of rapid recharging during the day would be a big help for pure electric vehicles, but it would make little or no difference for plug-in hybrids. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 9 13:59:35 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k39KxNkk028522; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 13:59:23 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k39KxKqE028503; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 13:59:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 13:59:20 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=YCcLH0+wtRj62a/q9HGiMNBEFHXD4XRHmzcy8j0rQmERB1gtkiuagOsIo53Q5iIH; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006409205910158@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Can't Meet Oil Demand . . . Duh! Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 14:59:10 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9404d2f4e5e732804d95e068f41ffab7620350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.204 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67481 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed Rothwell writes: > > Frederick Sparber writes: > > >You're not turning them into oil, Jed you need the fission reactor heat to drive the Kerogens out of the shale > >(2 to 15 gallons/ton) mined by 21st century robotics. . > > I just do not see the advantage of making synthetic fuel if you already have fission energy. Why not use the heat to generate electricity directly? If you do need some liquid or gas fuel, just use hydrogen. It seems a lot cheaper, if you have the fission power to spare in the first place. > The fuel resource is there, and the distribution systems for upgraded kerogen or synthetic fuels are already in place. South Africa has been producing synthetic fuels from coal and natural gas for decades. http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/safrica.html "South Africa has a highly developed synthetic fuels industry supported by abundant coal resources and offshore natural gas and condensate production in Mossel Bay Sasol, with a capacity of 150,000 barrels per day (bbl/d), and the Petroleum Oil and Gas Corporation of South Africa (PetroSA), with a capacity of 50,000 bbl/d, are the major producers of synthetic fuel in South Africa " The 240 volt 100 amp single phase service (25 KW Peak) for residential use would limit you to 1.0 pound of hydrogen (0.5 gallon gasoline equiv.) production per hour with a 2.5 volt 10,000 ampere state-of-the-art electrolysis cell. Aside from the $5.00/gallon gasoline equivalent cost at $.10 per KW-HR , how do you plan on storing it? Upgrading residences to three phase service with power factor and demand charges tacked on gets pricey. A friend running a welding supply and metals business had to shell out $12K to get three phase from a line a block away. The nearest 3 phase line from this neighborhood is about a mile. > > Synthetic liquid fuel would be useful if the electricity all comes from a giant thermal farm in Arizona, in the middle of nowhere, but you can build fission plants reasonably close to population centers, so why not use the energy directly? > That is ludicrous. > > >The average household uses 500-720 KW-Hr/month. > >Where is the Power Plant-Grid capacity-infrastructure in place to handle "Off-Peak" > >and instant 50 KW-Hour Hybrid Recharge for ten or more cars at a time at the "gas station"? > > This is not needed. There is no call to recharge a plug in hybrid quickly. It can be done overnight. Not at reduced cost if everybody is drawing off the grid at night. > > If you forget, or if you do not have time to recharge, it does not matter. It just means you use more liquid fuel that day, and pay more for transportation. > Yes synthetic liquid fuel when the bottom of the oil barrel is dry >. > A method of rapid recharging during the day would be a big help for pure electric vehicles, but it would make little or no difference for plug-in hybrids. > I disagree. If you have 10 hybrids that want to charge 10 KW-Hr in 2 minutes, the recharging station has to have electrical service for at least 300 KW demand capability. Most likely running off a synthetic diesel fueled gen-set. Do the demand math for 10 car 50 KW "Supercap" recharge in 10 seconds or less. :-) Fred > - Jed > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 9 14:18:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k39LIlFj003867; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 14:18:47 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k39LIiih003842; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 14:18:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 14:18:44 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <0f2001c65c1b$2ccf66e0$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-22006409205910158@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Can't Meet Oil Demand . . . Duh! Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 23:18:40 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67482 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Do the demand math for 10 car 50 KW "Supercap" recharge in 10 seconds or > less. Hi Fred. I think the plan is that the recharging station would be equipped with storage supercaps too, so the demand could be spread out. Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 10:59 PM Subject: Re: Can't Meet Oil Demand . . . Duh! > Jed Rothwell writes: >> >> Frederick Sparber writes: >> >> >You're not turning them into oil, Jed you need the fission reactor heat > to drive the Kerogens out of the shale >> >(2 to 15 gallons/ton) mined by 21st century robotics. . >> >> I just do not see the advantage of making synthetic fuel if you already > have fission energy. Why not use the heat to generate electricity > directly? > If you do need some liquid or gas fuel, just use hydrogen. It seems a lot > cheaper, if you have the fission power to spare in the first place. >> > The fuel resource is there, and the distribution systems for upgraded > kerogen or synthetic fuels are already in place. > > South Africa has been producing synthetic fuels from coal and natural gas > for decades. > > http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/safrica.html > > "South Africa has a highly developed synthetic fuels industry supported by > abundant coal resources and offshore natural gas and condensate production > in Mossel Bay Sasol, with a capacity of 150,000 barrels per day (bbl/d), > and the Petroleum Oil and Gas Corporation of South Africa (PetroSA), with > a > capacity of 50,000 bbl/d, are the major producers of synthetic fuel in > South Africa " > > The 240 volt 100 amp single phase service (25 KW Peak) for residential > use > would limit you to > 1.0 pound of hydrogen (0.5 gallon gasoline equiv.) production per hour > with > a 2.5 volt 10,000 ampere state-of-the-art > electrolysis cell. Aside from the $5.00/gallon gasoline equivalent cost at > $.10 per KW-HR , how do you plan on storing it? > Upgrading residences to three phase service with power factor and demand > charges tacked on gets pricey. > A friend running a welding supply and metals business had to shell out > $12K > to get three phase > from a line a block away. The nearest 3 phase line from this neighborhood > is about a mile. >> >> Synthetic liquid fuel would be useful if the electricity all comes from a > giant thermal farm in Arizona, in the middle of nowhere, but you can build > fission plants reasonably close to population centers, so why not use the > energy directly? >> > That is ludicrous. >> >> >The average household uses 500-720 KW-Hr/month. >> >Where is the Power Plant-Grid capacity-infrastructure in place to handle > "Off-Peak" >> >and instant 50 KW-Hour Hybrid Recharge for ten or more cars at a time at > the "gas station"? >> >> This is not needed. There is no call to recharge a plug in hybrid > quickly. It can be done overnight. > Not at reduced cost if everybody is drawing off the grid at night. >> >> If you forget, or if you do not have time to recharge, it does not > matter. It just means you use more liquid fuel that day, and pay more for > transportation. >> > Yes synthetic liquid fuel when the bottom of the oil barrel is dry >>. >> A method of rapid recharging during the day would be a big help for pure > electric vehicles, but it would make little or no difference for plug-in > hybrids. >> > I disagree. If you have 10 hybrids that want to charge 10 KW-Hr in 2 > minutes, the recharging station > has to have electrical service for at least 300 KW demand capability. > Most likely running off a synthetic diesel fueled gen-set. > Do the demand math for 10 car 50 KW "Supercap" recharge in 10 seconds or > less. :-) > > Fred > >> - Jed >> >> > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 9 15:14:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k39ME4wI022057; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 15:14:04 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k39ME2dE022045; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 15:14:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 15:14:02 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=GwoMuyAEC8r88zOMObjcJfdZlKr7QTuEUFSeAPTdRRHyqlYgP3UxWE/wijnEVWiG; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <8662281.1144620841519.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 18:14:01 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Jed Rothwell Reply-To: Jed Rothwell To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Can't Meet Oil Demand . . . Duh! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 25e7688170aa9857b054f8d56408d260416dc04816f3191c50787151dea6e1388804d14518a396d161842b8767f10ff2350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.28 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67483 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick Sparber writes: >The 240 volt 100 amp single phase service (25 KW Peak) for residential use >would limit you to >1.0 pound of hydrogen (0.5 gallon gasoline equiv.) production per hour with >a 2.5 volt 10,000 ampere state-of-the-art >electrolysis cell. That would be plenty for recharging the electric vehicle portion of a plug-in hybrid. Electric cars are 4 times more efficient than conventional gasoline cars, so 0.5 gallons equiv. energy is about the same as 2 gallons per hour (enough to go 40 or 50 miles). At that rate, most people would not need to charge more than an hour or two. >> Synthetic liquid fuel would be useful if the electricity all comes from a >giant thermal farm in Arizona, in the middle of nowhere, but you can build >fission plants reasonably close to population centers, so why not use the >energy directly? >> >That is ludicrous. Why would it be ludicrous? Naturally occuring liquid fuel comes from deserts in Saudi Arabia and Texas. Why would it be any worse to extract synthetic fuel from the deserts and drylands in Arizona, California and Texas? The solar thermal plants would probably be a lot cheaper than any fission plant ever will be, and much safer. Even now, we could supply all the liquid fuel we need with 10,000 to 20,000 square miles (100 x 200 miles) but there is plenty of land out there. >> If you forget, or if you do not have time to recharge, it does not >matter. It just means you use more liquid fuel that day, and pay more for >transportation. >> >Yes synthetic liquid fuel when the bottom of the oil barrel is dry It would not matter. If everyone drove plug in hybrids, consumption of liquid fuel would fall by a factor of 10 immediately, and later 100 as batteries improve. The remaining demand for liquid fuel can easily be met with biofuels or any convenient nonpolluting synthetic fuel. This would take far less than ~10,000 square miles. Five or 10 dedicated nuke plants would do it. >I disagree. If you have 10 hybrids that want to charge 10 KW-Hr in 2 >minutes, the recharging station >has to have electrical service for at least 300 KW demand capability. As someone else already pointed out, the stations would use capacitors. But I doubt there would be any need for or market for recharging stations in a plug-in hybrid world. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 9 15:30:46 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k39MURMW028155; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 15:30:27 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k39MUOe1028118; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 15:30:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 15:30:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2006 18:30:18 -0400 Message-Id: <8C82A3C50EA4385-19E8-1C115@mblkn-m19.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <410-22006409205910158@earthlink.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <410-22006409205910158@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Can't Meet Oil Demand . . . Duh! Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.137 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <4MXcOD.A.Q3G._rYOEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67484 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Frederick Sparber Do the demand math for 10 car 50 KW "Supercap" recharge in 10 seconds or less. :-) <><><><><><><> Unless you're charging supercaps with supercaps. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 9 15:44:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k39MidD2000980; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 15:44:40 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k39Mib6D000945; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 15:44:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 15:44:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Can't Meet Oil Demand . . . Duh! Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 08:44:35 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <410-22006409205910158@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <410-22006409205910158@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta04ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.64.108] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sun, 9 Apr 2006 22:44:34 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k39MiYNi000916 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67485 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Frederick Sparber's message of Sun, 9 Apr 2006 14:59:10 -0600: Hi, [snip] >The 240 volt 100 amp single phase service (25 KW Peak) for residential use >would limit you to >1.0 pound of hydrogen (0.5 gallon gasoline equiv.) production per hour with >a 2.5 volt 10,000 ampere state-of-the-art >electrolysis cell. Actually I wouldn't consider an electrolysis cell meeting those specs to be state of the art. It would require a huge, and thus expensive, transformer. It is much simpler to just connect individual cells in series until the overall voltage drop equals the line voltage. Then connect the gas output from the cells in parallel. The latter is easy to arrange by letting all the cells share common manifolds (one for oxygen, and one for hydrogen). Then one only needs a controlled bridge rectifier (quite cheap), and a controller to drive it, and a compressor to pump the H2 into the vehicle. No external storage is needed, because the unit can simply be started after it's connected to the vehicle. Because the production rate of H2 is so low, only a very small (and thus cheap) pump would be needed. All of this notwithstanding, I still prefer Jed's notion of rechargeable hybrids as the best short term solution. It would greatly extend the remaining amount of oil, and concurrently cut the overall CO2 production rate (assuming nuclear or renewable electricity production), to the point where nature could cope with it again. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 9 19:09:14 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3A291mR001408; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 19:09:02 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3A28xKx001373; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 19:08:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 19:08:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=GD4v4bdr8Ggn0QJ32X76tn7nBdaHXiT8nTe8XiWG95OvDG446anmAP3x0vCk2c6I; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200641102847213@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Can't Meet Oil Demand . . . Duh! Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 20:08:47 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9404e6a79fd379a6340665663f492147433350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.251 Resent-Message-ID: <4lSfG.A.ZV.74bOEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67486 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed Rothwell writes: > > > Naturally occurring liquid fuel comes from deserts in Saudi Arabia and Texas. > Why would it be any worse to extract synthetic fuel from the deserts and drylands in : > Arizona, California and Texas? The solar thermal plants would probably be a lot cheaper \ > than any fission plant ever will be, and much safer. Even now, we could supply > all the liquid fuel we need with 10,000 to 20,000 square miles (100 x 200 miles) > but there is plenty of land out there. > You are talking about fission electric power generation while I was referring to a fission thermal heating unit (a one megawatt thermal device will fit in a 55 gallon drum) for heating the shale using heat pipe technology and getting high grade steam from the "spent shale" for ancillary electrical power generation. The Sandia-developed "Solar Tower" between Barstow and Victorville California Desert isn't doing all that great, AFAIK. Fred > > - Jed > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 9 21:56:35 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3A4uPLB002325; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 21:56:25 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3A4uN2H002310; Sun, 9 Apr 2006 21:56:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 21:56:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Eswqnne6ndhCCe1SmznL1lKyT7SPADF+VseqfiQSXpWBwChYi0w9J95KOypodHit; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200641104567979@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re; Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 22:56:07 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94066dd9cf040aec9243ffd689c6a770b92350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.100 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67487 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII At the Bohr Radius (R) = 5.29e-11 meters the Electrostatic Attraction force (F) between the proton and electron is k*q1*q2/R^2 = 8.23e-8 nt. Coincidentally, the point pole magnetic attraction (or repulsion) force F = uo* M^2/[4(pi)R]^2 = 8.23e-8 nt Where M is the magnetic moment constant, 4.8e-11 ampere-meter for any particle. This suggests that the Bohr radius is the balance point between the electrostatic attraction and magnetic dipole repulsion between the electron and proton, provided that the magnetic fields of the particles are oscillating at some frequency. The nature of the Proton-Electron-Proton ---> Deuteron fusion reaction and also the Proton-Proton ---> D + neutrino+ e+ fusion reaction once the electrostatic coulomb barrier is surmounted also lends credence to this aspect. If this true, an Electrogravity Levitation force is attainable between the predominately proton mass of the earth (~ 4000 times that of the electron mass) with manipulation of electrons and/or energy fields resulting from electron manipulation. I rest my case and turn to frogs jumping out of the Grand Canyon (1600 meter spot) which requires mgh ~ = 8,000 nt-meters (or joules) for a 1/2 kg frog with great legs. :-) http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/traj.html#tra1 Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
At the Bohr Radius  (R) = 5.29e-11 meters the Electrostatic Attraction
force (F) between the proton and electron is k*q1*q2/R^2 = 8.23e-8 nt.
Coincidentally, the point  pole magnetic attraction (or repulsion)
force F = uo* M^2/[4(pi)R]^2 = 8.23e-8 nt
Where M is the magnetic moment constant, 4.8e-11 ampere-meter
for any particle.
This suggests that the Bohr radius is the balance point between the electrostatic
attraction and magnetic dipole repulsion between the electron and proton, provided
that the magnetic fields of the particles are oscillating at some frequency.
The nature of the Proton-Electron-Proton ---> Deuteron
fusion reaction and also the Proton-Proton ---> D + neutrino+ e+
fusion reaction once the  electrostatic coulomb barrier is surmounted
also lends credence to this aspect.
If this true, an Electrogravity Levitation force is attainable between the predominately
proton mass of the earth (~ 4000 times that of the electron mass) with manipulation
of electrons and/or energy fields resulting from electron manipulation.
 
I rest my case and turn to frogs jumping out of the Grand Canyon (1600 meter spot)
which requires mgh  ~ = 8,000 nt-meters (or joules) for a 1/2 kg
frog with great legs.  :-) 
 
 
Fred
 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 10 00:55:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3A7sqoE030348; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 00:54:52 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3A7sotU030334; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 00:54:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 00:54:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <0fb901c65c74$0971c310$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-2200641104567979@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Re; Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 09:54:39 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67488 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > I rest my case and turn to frogs jumping out of the Grand Canyon (1600 > meter spot) > which requires mgh ~ = 8,000 nt-meters (or joules) for a 1/2 kg > frog with great legs. :-) A frog this fat will never jump this high ;) nt = "new tons" ? ;) Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 6:56 AM Subject: Re; Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons > At the Bohr Radius (R) = 5.29e-11 meters the Electrostatic Attraction > force (F) between the proton and electron is k*q1*q2/R^2 = 8.23e-8 nt. > Coincidentally, the point pole magnetic attraction (or repulsion) > force F = uo* M^2/[4(pi)R]^2 = 8.23e-8 nt > Where M is the magnetic moment constant, 4.8e-11 ampere-meter > for any particle. > This suggests that the Bohr radius is the balance point between the > electrostatic > attraction and magnetic dipole repulsion between the electron and proton, > provided > that the magnetic fields of the particles are oscillating at some > frequency. > The nature of the Proton-Electron-Proton ---> Deuteron > fusion reaction and also the Proton-Proton ---> D + neutrino+ e+ > fusion reaction once the electrostatic coulomb barrier is surmounted > also lends credence to this aspect. > If this true, an Electrogravity Levitation force is attainable between the > predominately > proton mass of the earth (~ 4000 times that of the electron mass) with > manipulation > of electrons and/or energy fields resulting from electron manipulation. > > I rest my case and turn to frogs jumping out of the Grand Canyon (1600 > meter spot) > which requires mgh ~ = 8,000 nt-meters (or joules) for a 1/2 kg > frog with great legs. :-) > > http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/traj.html#tra1 > > Fred From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 10 03:16:04 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3AAFrle012051; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 03:15:53 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3AAFpDV012038; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 03:15:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 03:15:51 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=f2NwmpJTijF6vveE5fKKt29bTz4bQt38LFz6cBus5EWLatSJZagApU4kVBgUp4nI; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064110101541421@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re; Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 04:15:41 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9406f1462daa4c435ee625e34eef8e15824350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.172 Resent-Message-ID: <8Uisl.A.C8C.XBjOEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67489 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michel Jullian wrote: > > Fred wrote: > > > I rest my case and turn to frogs jumping out of the Grand Canyon (1600 > > meter spot) > > which requires mgh ~ = 8,000 nt-meters (or joules) for a 1/2 kg > > frog with great legs. :-) > > A frog this fat will never jump this high ;) > > > Michel > Only if it could muster about 2000 g's and Mach 0.5 or so. :-) Fred Mark Twain ca. 1867 http://etext.virginia.edu/railton/projects/price/frog.htm "He'd give him a little punch behind, and the next minute you'd see that frog whirling in the air like a doughnut see him turn one summerset, or may be a couple, if he got a good start, and come down flat-footed and all right, like a cat. He got him up so in the matter of catching flies, and kept him in practice so constant, that he'd nail a fly every time as far as he could see him. Smiley said all a frog wanted was education, and he could do most any thing and I believe him. Why, I've seen him set Dan'l Webster down here on this floor Dan'l Webster was the name of the frog and sing out, "Flies, Dan'l, flies!" and quicker'n you could wink, he'd spring straight up, and snake a fly off'n the counter there, and flop down on the floor again as solid as a gob of mud, and fall to scratching the side of his head with his hind foot as indifferent as if he hadn't no idea he'd been doin' any more'n any frog might do. You never see a frog so modest and straightforward as he was, for all he was so gifted. And when it come to fair and square jumping on a dead level, he could get over more ground at one straddle than any animal of his breed you ever see. Jumping on a dead level was his strong suit, you understand; and when it come to that, Smiley would ante up money on him as long as he had a red. Smiley was monstrous proud of his frog, and well he might be, for fellers that had traveled and been everywheres, all said he laid over any frog that ever they see." From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 10 03:58:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3AAwa7T025937; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 03:58:36 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3AAwZ4R025928; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 03:58:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 03:58:35 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=C0pLJ0Z0kH6QWLwgeJhZmi0aB/pTzjXaL3sh6ESoo221q/kZ45PCC/96QPQksF5i; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064110105825374@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re; Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 04:58:25 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94091e437b324d611057a1f1fbd60a2645a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.253 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67490 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII FWIW, Michel. The sudden disappearance of craft in encounters-sightings implys that when a certain vacuum energy density is reached, the craft passes through a "space-time portal" into another dimension and then pops back out again at some distance giving an observer the illusion that they are undergoing g forces that would squash the occupants. Fred > > I rest my case and turn to frogs jumping out of the Grand Canyon (1600 meter spot) > which requires mgh ~ = 8,000 nt-meters (or joules) for a 1/2 kg > frog with great legs. > ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
FWIW, Michel.
 
The sudden disappearance of craft in encounters-sightings implys that when
a certain vacuum energy density is reached, the craft passes through
a "space-time portal" into another dimension and then pops back out again
at some distance giving an observer the illusion that they are undergoing
g forces that would squash the occupants.
 
Fred
>
> I rest my case and turn to frogs jumping out of the Grand Canyon (1600 meter spot)
> which requires mgh  ~ = 8,000 nt-meters (or joules) for a 1/2 kg
> frog with great legs.
>
 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 10 04:43:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3ABhdMD011914; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 04:43:39 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3ABhbuB011899; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 04:43:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 04:43:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <100001c65c93$ffd47760$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-220064110105825374@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Re; Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 13:43:34 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67491 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > when a certain vacuum energy density is reached, the craft passes > through... I am sure reaching a certain ethanol density can have similar effects on the observer ;) Thanks for the nice Twain extract, but the quoted paper refers distinctly to "fair and square jumping on a dead level", which can be of no relevance to your preposterous claim of a 1600m _vertical_ jump :) Fred don't think I am making fun of your theories, it's just that they go way over my head so all I can possibly contribute is occasional dubious humor, I wish I could do more. All the best, Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 12:58 PM Subject: Re; Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons > FWIW, Michel. > > The sudden disappearance of craft in encounters-sightings implys that when > a certain vacuum energy density is reached, the craft passes through > a "space-time portal" into another dimension and then pops back out again > at some distance giving an observer the illusion that they are undergoing > g forces that would squash the occupants. > > Fred >> >> I rest my case and turn to frogs jumping out of the Grand Canyon (1600 >> meter spot) >> which requires mgh ~ = 8,000 nt-meters (or joules) for a 1/2 kg >> frog with great legs. >> From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 10 05:07:24 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3AC76uh021218; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 05:07:07 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3AC75Ef021200; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 05:07:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 05:07:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=UQk8CbjJoo+zGbA9C7PzFs0+U9bP4ApdW3bEYNCY3lvfHPmLA7ciPegAErOf31oQ; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006411012653703@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re; Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 06:06:53 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9401cdf5757ea1c87c4918a28856115bd8f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.91 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67492 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michel writes: > > I am sure reaching a certain ethanol density can have similar effects on the > observer ;) > Terry doesn't partake of the "spirits" Michel. :-) > > Thanks for the nice Twain extract, but the quoted paper refers distinctly to > "fair and square jumping on a dead level", which can be of no relevance to > your preposterous claim of a 1600m _vertical_ jump :) > True. On the way home from working the land one evening I captured a very large bullfrog and set it on the floor inside the door at home and called my wife Just as she stepped through a doorway about ten feet away the frog leapt and landed at her feet, she let out a scream and jumped back at least ten feet. She didn't speak to me for the two days that I was in the doghouse. > > Fred don't think I am making fun of your theories, it's just that they go > way over my head so all I can possibly contribute is occasional dubious > humor, I wish I could do more. > No problem, Michel. Flights of the imagination are the heart and soul of vortex. :-) > Fred > All the best, > Michel > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 10 05:30:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3ACUXqV029687; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 05:30:34 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3ACUWO5029669; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 05:30:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 05:30:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 08:30:28 -0400 Message-Id: <8C82AB1AF18545B-EB4-1F852@mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <410-2200641104567979@earthlink.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <410-2200641104567979@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Re; Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.130 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67493 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Frederick Sparber If this true, an Electrogravity Levitation force is attainable between the predominately proton mass of the earth (~ 4000 times that of the electron mass) with manipulation of electrons and/or energy fields resulting from electron manipulation. <><><><><><> Hmmm. The proton mass should be 1800 times the electron mass. Are you including the entire nucleon in your figure? Or have you lost your electron. You're positive? ;-) Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 10 05:39:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3ACdRCG002160; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 05:39:27 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3ACdQZs002141; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 05:39:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 05:39:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=KjZNcrNMBjPucESSSwXoqIqMRrwhBv4QOoWOSHJKjKNTev2YlqxHqV8DU/fVi8Lb; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064110123913472@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re; Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 06:39:13 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940752fb620d6a023d6f64d8b993b9e137d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.217 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67494 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII BTW, According to this timeline, Galvani's frog leg experiments kicked off Volta's Pile, the forerunner of batteries and supercaps. http://www.schoolscience.co.uk/content/3/physics/electric/index.html ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
BTW, According to this timeline,
 
Galvani's frog leg experiments kicked off Volta's Pile, the forerunner
of batteries and supercaps.
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 10 06:00:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3AD0aIZ010922; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 06:00:37 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3AD0ZLa010910; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 06:00:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 06:00:35 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=cUk4tr90efbTR7BPq3l9G4WrTuNpf0jOTUPi0PUyD8ZEw40FDPRxQaIZOUbaA3Dr; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006411013027994@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re; Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 07:00:27 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94035b8ec840a55382cc4792b4f60424ed5350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.217 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67495 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Terry wrote > > -----Original Message----- > From: Frederick Sparber > > If this true, an Electrogravity Levitation force is attainable between > the predominately > proton mass of the earth (~ 4000 times that of the electron mass) with > manipulation > of electrons and/or energy fields resulting from electron manipulation. > > <><><><><><> > > Hmmm. The proton mass should be 1800 times the electron mass. Are you > including the entire nucleon in your figure? Yes, all of the nucleons should contain the proton positive charge (even in the neutron). Like the nucleus of 46Pd-102 = 4,000 times it's electron mass. > > Or have you lost your electron. > Nope cosmic ray dendrite disruption. > You're positive? ;-) Only after you sober up enough to do the experiment. :-) Fred > > Terry > ___________________________________________________ > Try the New Netscape Mail Today! > Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List > http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 10 06:05:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3AD4qh7013343; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 06:04:53 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3AD4oXt013321; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 06:04:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 06:04:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <102201c65c9f$5914d210$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-220064110123913472@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Re; Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 15:04:48 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: <9itECD.A.EQD.yflOEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67496 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Which only confirms if it had been needed the high relevance of your jumping frog to the serious concerns here, how silly of me to have thought you were pulling my leg ;) Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 2:39 PM Subject: Re; Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons > BTW, According to this timeline, > > Galvani's frog leg experiments kicked off Volta's Pile, the forerunner > of batteries and supercaps. > > http://www.schoolscience.co.uk/content/3/physics/electric/index.html From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 10 06:54:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3ADsbdi004854; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 06:54:38 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3ADsaO7004840; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 06:54:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 06:54:36 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 09:54:33 -0400 From: fznidarsic@aol.com Message-Id: <8C82ABD6E5E91F9-17CC-593@FWM-R32.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 17281 Subject: Re; Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MailBlocks_8C82ABD6E5C2FA1_17CC_5D3_FWM-R32.sysops.aol.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 152.163.181.136 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67497 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----------MailBlocks_8C82ABD6E5C2FA1_17CC_5D3_FWM-R32.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This suggests that the Bohr radius is the balance point between the electrostatic attraction and magnetic dipole repulsion between the electron and proton, provided that the magnetic fields of the particles are oscillating at some frequency. fs I believe that the Bohr radius is due to a maximum of stiffness. See my paper on the subject at: http://www.wbabin.net/science/znidarsic2.pdf Frank Znidarsic ----------MailBlocks_8C82ABD6E5C2FA1_17CC_5D3_FWM-R32.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
This suggests that the Bohr radius is the balance point between the electrostatic
attraction and magnetic dipole repulsion between the electron and proton, provided
that the magnetic fields of the particles are oscillating at some frequency.
fs
 
I believe that the Bohr radius is due to a maximum of stiffness.
See my paper on the subject at:
 
 
 
Frank Znidarsic
 
----------MailBlocks_8C82ABD6E5C2FA1_17CC_5D3_FWM-R32.sysops.aol.com-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 10 07:17:43 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3AEHU40016737; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 07:17:30 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3AEHRSX016710; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 07:17:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 07:17:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <200604101417.k3AEHPru053111@mail1.mx.voyager.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 09:17:25 -0500 From: "OrionWorks" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: svj@orionworks.com Reply-To: svj@orionworks.com Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_76dcf793ccae50cfaf33e8ed07eb371c" X-Mailer: CoreComm Webmail X-IPAddress: 130.47.34.2 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67498 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=_76dcf793ccae50cfaf33e8ed07eb371c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just a side comment here... > FWIW, Michel. > > The sudden disappearance of craft in encounters-sightings > implys that when a certain vacuum energy density is > reached, the craft passes through a "space-time portal" > into another dimension and then pops back out again > at some distance giving an observer the illusion that > they are undergoing g forces that would squash the > occupants. Actually one does not need to implement exotic "vacuum energy" or "space-time portals" tricks in order to make certain kinds of "UFOs" disappear in the sky. This was easily demonstrated down in Mexico back in the 90s during a huge flying saucer flap that lasted several years. In one case there was a videotape showing an object hovering in the sky - when suddenly it simply blinked out of existence. The most prosaic explanation for its disappearance was due to the fact that the object really had not disappeared, it just looked like they had done so. The object was most likely using a low-tech secret trick that had been learned way back in WW II times. The trick consisted of turning on headlights and shining them in the direction that the flying object is trying appear as "invisible" to an observer. Using bright headlights tend to cancel out the outer dimensions and different brightness values the flying object possess in comparison to the surrounding sky. If the object is sufficiently far enough away from the observer the retinas in the observer's eyes will be incapable of distinguishing the object's dimensions from the rest of the surrounding sky's bright values, which typically consist of blue skies and white clouds. This effectively renders the aircraft invisible. Attack plans implemented this simple ploy when approaching enemies they were going to bomb. The ploy gave them several additional seconds, if not minutes, of precious invisibility as they approached their targets. I suspect some of those Mexican UFOs were actually U.S. secret military reconnaissance craft being tested by the military. What better way to test new craft than under the cover of appearing as UFOs. Also, what better way to advertise to one's enemies (who are also smart enough to see through the ruse of alleged "UFOs") that such public demonstrations of UFO craft mean "we mean business." If you mess with us we can sneak up on you when you least expect it. Bomb's away! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks --=_76dcf793ccae50cfaf33e8ed07eb371c Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just a side comment here...

> FWIW, Michel.
>
> The sudden disappearance of craft in encounters-sightings
> implys that when a certain vacuum energy density is
> reached, the craft passes through a "space-time portal"
> into another dimension and then pops back out again
> at some distance giving an observer the illusion that
> they are undergoing g forces that would squash the
> occupants.

Actually one does not need to implement exotic "vacuum energy" or "space-ti= me portals" tricks in order to make certain kinds of "UFOs" disappear in th= e sky. This was easily demonstrated down in Mexico back in the 90s during a= huge flying saucer flap that lasted several years. In one case there was a= videotape showing an object hovering in the sky - when suddenly it simply = blinked out of existence.

The most prosaic explanation for its disappearance was due to the fact that= the object really had not disappeared, it just looked like they had done s= o. The object was most likely using a low-tech secret trick that had been l= earned way back in WW II times. The trick consisted of turning on headlight= s and shining them in the direction that the flying object is trying appear= as "invisible" to an observer. Using bright headlights tend to cancel out = the outer dimensions and different brightness values the flying object poss= ess in comparison to the surrounding sky. If the object is sufficiently far= enough away from the observer the retinas in the observer's eyes will be i= ncapable of distinguishing the object's dimensions from the rest of the sur= rounding sky's bright values, which typically consist of blue skies and whi= te clouds. This effectively renders the aircraft invisible.

Attack plans implemented this simple ploy when approaching enemies they wer= e going to bomb. The ploy gave them several additional seconds, if not minu= tes, of precious invisibility as they approached their targets. I suspect s= ome of those Mexican UFOs were actually U.S. secret military reconnaissance= craft being tested by the military. What better way to test new craft than= under the cover of appearing as UFOs. Also, what better way to advertise t= o one's enemies (who are also smart enough to see through the ruse of alleg= ed "UFOs") that such public demonstrations of UFO craft mean "we mean busin= ess." If you mess with us we can sneak up on you when you least expect it. = Bomb's away!

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks --=_76dcf793ccae50cfaf33e8ed07eb371c-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 10 08:46:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3AFkP3f028403; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 08:46:26 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3AFkOv7028386; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 08:46:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 08:46:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=hyxu8ZR6dkM0BjpT2bAcAlyw0y3AymBHNBpHeGummXBheHiqteNYh3DBkYoTcE0H; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064110154613421@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 09:46:13 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9404fac5987f0826ce2b03e5c9c7381be13350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.156 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67499 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Thanks Steven. Another possibility. In the early afternoon in the mid 90s I and the family watched some bright-whitish sphere-like objects do so weird maneuvering for several minutes well above 30,000 feet (a jumbo jet well above scattered clouds crossed below it). An intense vacuum energy density increase as the craft maneuvers could change the index of refraction of the ether around the craft thus acting as a "cloaking" device. Big Al said, "Matter Warps Space" which has been confirmed by gravitational red shift experiments. Since matter and localized high energy density are the same thing..... Frank Grimer's ether "squeeze" pushing antimatter-like energy-density 500 -1000 joule per cubic meter for 10 -20 Megavolts/meter in spherical capacitors, away from the earth? Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: OrionWorks To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: svj@orionworks.com Sent: 4/10/2006 8:18:03 AM Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Just a side comment here... > FWIW, Michel. > > The sudden disappearance of craft in encounters-sightings > implys that when a certain vacuum energy density is > reached, the craft passes through a "space-time portal" > into another dimension and then pops back out again > at some distance giving an observer the illusion that > they are undergoing g forces that would squash the > occupants. Actually one does not need to implement exotic "vacuum energy" or "space-time portals" tricks in order to make certain kinds of "UFOs" disappear in the sky. This was easily demonstrated down in Mexico back in the 90s during a huge flying saucer flap that lasted several years. In one case there was a videotape showing an object hovering in the sky - when suddenly it simply blinked out of existence. The most prosaic explanation for its disappearance was due to the fact that the object really had not disappeared, it just looked like they had done so. The object was most likely using a low-tech secret trick that had been learned way back in WW II times. The trick consisted of turning on headlights and shining them in the direction that the flying object is trying appear as "invisible" to an observer. Using bright headlights tend to cancel out the outer dimensions and different brightness values the flying object possess in comparison to the surrounding sky. If the object is sufficiently far enough away from the observer the retinas in the observer's eyes will be incapable of distinguishing the object's dimensions from the rest of the surrounding sky's bright values, which typically consist of blue skies and white clouds. This effectively renders the aircraft invisible. Attack plans implemented this simple ploy when approaching enemies they were going to bomb. The ploy gave them several additional seconds, if not minutes, of precious invisibility as they approached their targets. I suspect some of those Mexican UFOs were actually U.S. secret military reconnaissance craft being tested by the military. What better way to test new craft than under the cover of appearing as UFOs. Also, what better way to advertise to one's enemies (who are also smart enough to see through the ruse of alleged "UFOs") that such public demonstrations of UFO craft mean "we mean business." If you mess with us we can sneak up on you when you least expect it. Bomb's away! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Thanks Steven.
 
Another possibility.
In the early afternoon in the mid 90s I and the family watched some
bright-whitish sphere-like objects do so weird maneuvering for several minutes well above
30,000 feet (a jumbo jet well above scattered clouds crossed below it).
 
An intense vacuum energy density increase as the craft maneuvers
could change the index of refraction of the ether around the craft thus acting
as a "cloaking" device.
 
Big Al said, "Matter Warps Space" which has been confirmed by gravitational red shift experiments.
Since matter and localized high energy density are the same thing.....
 
Frank Grimer's ether "squeeze"  pushing antimatter-like energy-density
500 -1000 joule per cubic meter for 10 -20 Megavolts/meter in spherical capacitors,
away from the earth?
 
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: OrionWorks
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: 4/10/2006 8:18:03 AM
Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons

Just a side comment here...

> FWIW, Michel.
>
> The sudden disappearance of craft in encounters-sightings
> implys that when a certain vacuum energy density is
> reached, the craft passes through a "space-time portal"
> into another dimension and then pops back out again
> at some distance giving an observer the illusion that
> they are undergoing g forces that would squash the
> occupants.

Actually one does not need to implement exotic "vacuum energy" or "space-time portals" tricks in order to make certain kinds of "UFOs" disappear in the sky. This was easily demonstrated down in Mexico back in the 90s during a huge flying saucer flap that lasted several years. In one case there was a videotape showing an object hovering in the sky - when suddenly it simply blinked out of existence.

The most prosaic explanation for its disappearance was due to the fact that the object really had not disappeared, it just looked like they had done so. The object was most likely using a low-tech secret trick that had been learned way back in WW II times. The trick consisted of turning on headlights and shining them in the direction that the flying object is trying appear as "invisible" to an observer. Using bright headlights tend to cancel out the outer dimensions and different brightness values the flying object possess in comparison to the surrounding sky. If the object is sufficiently far enough away from the observer the retinas in the observer's eyes will be incapable of distinguishing the object's dimensions from the rest of the surrounding sky's bright values, which typically consist of blue skies and white clouds. This effectively renders the aircraft invisible.

Attack plans implemented this simple ploy when approaching enemies they were going to bomb. The ploy gave them several additional seconds, if not minutes, of precious invisibility as they approached their targets. I suspect some of those Mexican UFO! s were a ctually U.S. secret military reconnaissance craft being tested by the military. What better way to test new craft than under the cover of appearing as UFOs. Also, what better way to advertise to one's enemies (who are also smart enough to see through the ruse of alleged "UFOs") that such public demonstrations of UFO craft mean "we mean business." If you mess with us we can sneak up on you when you least expect it. Bomb's away!

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 10 12:49:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3AJ3SOO032089; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 12:03:30 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3AJ3NwV032032; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 12:03:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 12:03:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <443A9811.5040801@pobox.com> Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 13:38:25 -0400 From: "Stephen A. Lawrence" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20060202 Fedora/1.7.12-1.5.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Naudin's Coanda Effect UFO References: <8C829FAC7EDE761-2F48-22BC9@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C829FAC7EDE761-2F48-22BC9@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67501 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote: > More Coanda video: > > http://jlnlabs.imars.com/gfsuav/n01aflight.htm > > This time he has remote control! Kewl! Very! The Coanda effect appears to be a first cousin to the Bernoulli effect, n'est-ce pas? But what on Earth is a "piezo gyro"? It's a little dingus that's shown stuck under the dome in the detailed pictures, and something in the text suggested to me that it's the bit of magic that keeps the whole body from counter-rotating due to the torque which must be applied to the propellor. But "piezo"?? Like, you squeeze a quartz crystal just right and its angular momentum increases? That can't be right... From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 10 12:53:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3AJe09H021395; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 12:40:00 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3AJdcSl021149; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 12:39:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 12:39:38 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060410153908.03d94298@mindspring.com> Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060410152630.03db1978@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 15:39:15 -0400 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: We need more papers in different languages Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67502 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At LENR-CANR.org we have introductions to the field and papers in English, French, German, Spanish, Portuguese and Chinese. I do not think we have anything in Italian, and we have nothing in Russian. We get many visitors from Italy so it is a shame we have nothing to offer them in their own language. The papers in Portuguese and Spanish attract many readers from Europe and South and Central America. Mizuno is presently writing a long introduction and history of the field, in Japanese. I will upload this soon. Message to all Authors: If you have published papers in a language other than English please send them to us. Introductory and overview papers in Italian and Russian would be especially welcome. I usually do the conversion to Acrobat, but for these other languages it would probably work best if you would do the conversion on your end. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 10 12:56:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3AI8Hm5028226; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:08:17 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3AI8F2D028203; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:08:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:08:15 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <443A9F04.8020402@pobox.com> Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:08:04 -0400 From: "Stephen A. Lawrence" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20060202 Fedora/1.7.12-1.5.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Can't Meet Oil Demand . . . Duh! References: <8C829806B78B3EE-19F0-AEE9@mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com> <0e5f01c65bb0$5af671f0$3800a8c0@zothan> <000401c65bd0$5a3c6330$640fa8c0@MIKEBY3NR533HT> In-Reply-To: <000401c65bd0$5a3c6330$640fa8c0@MIKEBY3NR533HT> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67500 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mike Carrell wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Jullian" > Subject: Re: Can't Meet Oil Demand . . . Duh! > > >> Less than ten years left? Nah, won't run out in 10 years. But as supply peaks and demand keeps rising, a gap must open, which will result in a dramatic leap in the price of everything, and as the price increases inevitably result in imposition of price controls, the combination will lead to severe shortages. >> Worse than we had been told, and one could >> expect the head of exploration for a large oil company to know about >> these things. >> This leaves us little time to find a replacement technology, come on >> guys! >> >> The good news is that air pollution should fall dramatically within a >> decade. > > > So why do you think some of us have been doggedly defending 'cold > fusion' and BlacklightPower all these years? The latter may be about > ready to hatch. The announcement is not that there is *no oil left*, but > that the supply can't be increased to meet the demand, which means that > prices will rise, tempers will flare, and people might have to change > their ways and priorities, driven by that most reliable of all lashes, > price. That's just one issue. Potable water is another. Right, but the water situation isn't likely to blow up the same way as the oil situation, because the people most affected are the poorest, who are least able to do anything about it. According to what I read recently something close to 2 billion people are living in the shantytowns which have accreted around many of the large cities of the world, and for the most part they're doing without little luxuries like water and sewer hookups. OTOH the scenario in Harrison's "Make Room! Make Room!" in which New York City was starved for fresh water (among other things!) doesn't seem likely to happen any time soon -- indeed, it's still hard to imagine how a lot of the world lives while sitting in a detached house in a comfortable 'burb in the USA. But while the shantytown residents just cope quietly with their bouts of cholera and rarely get more notice than a brief story in the back pages of the paper, when the gasoline runs short and American SUV owners have to queue up to pay $10 a gallon for the stuff we may very well see riots or worse. (Boy, working on taxes puts me in a weird mood...) > > Mike Carrell > >> >> Michel >> >>> http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13130-2124287,00.html >>> >>> "World 'cannot meet oil demand' >>> By Carl Mortished, International Business Editor >>> >>> THE world lacks the means to produce enough oil to meet rising >>> projections of demand for fuel over the next decade, according to >>> Christophe de Margerie, head of exploration for Total and heir >>> presumptive to the leadership of the French energy multinational." >>> >>> WTF has everyone been. Earth's tank is half empty. >>> >>> Terry >> >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> This Email has been scanned for all viruses by Medford Leas I.T. >> Department. >> >> > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 10 14:27:18 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3ALR8ii010639; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:27:09 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3ALR6Cv010623; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:27:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:27:06 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 17:27:05 -0400 Message-Id: <8C82AFCA646DB66-F54-15D4@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <8C829FAC7EDE761-2F48-22BC9@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> <443A9811.5040801@pobox.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <443A9811.5040801@pobox.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Naudin's Coanda Effect UFO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.65 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3ALR4ej010599 Resent-Message-ID: <5RpTED.A.7lC.p2sOEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67503 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Stephen A. Lawrence To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 13:38:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Naudin's Coanda Effect UFO   hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote:  > More Coanda video:  > > http://jlnlabs.imars.com/gfsuav/n01aflight.htm  > > This time he has remote control! Kewl!    Very!    The Coanda effect appears to be a first cousin to the Bernoulli effect, n'est-ce pas?    But what on Earth is a "piezo gyro"? It's a little dingus that's shown stuck under the dome in the detailed pictures, and something in the text suggested to me that it's the bit of magic that keeps the whole body from counter-rotating due to the torque which must be applied to the propellor. But "piezo"?? Like, you squeeze a quartz crystal just right and its angular momentum increases? That can't be right...    ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 10 14:28:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3ALSWMP011520; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:28:33 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3ALSSBF011467; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:28:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:28:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 17:28:24 -0400 Message-Id: <8C82AFCD529ED29-F54-15E4@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <8C829FAC7EDE761-2F48-22BC9@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> <443A9811.5040801@pobox.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <443A9811.5040801@pobox.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Naudin's Coanda Effect UFO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.65 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67504 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Stephen A. Lawrence But what on Earth is a "piezo gyro"? <><><><><><> It must have lost something in the translation from French. (sorry, 'bout the blank message. new fingers) T ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 10 22:39:19 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3B5d6D2019857; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 22:39:06 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3B5d4FT019829; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 22:39:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 22:39:04 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060411053900607.9454F1C00081@mwinf3011.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060411053901.00989704@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 06:39:01 +0100 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: The double-helix and EM Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67505 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: No doubt you have all heard of the double-helix . Unfortunately this name suggests that the two helices are geometrically congruent. Indeed, in most of the Google Images this is how the double helix is diagrammatically represented. However, it ain't like that in reality. There is an inner and outer helix. One helix is more helical than the other. Imagine ascending a spiral staircase. There are two handrails. An inner handrail and an outer handrail. If you look down the inner handrail you look down the core of the staircase. In many spiral staircases where space is at a premium this core is solid and the tread adjacent to the core is extremely narrow. One has to be careful to keep to the outside of the staircase to avoid losing one's footing. A representation of this inner and outer helix is given at: http://www.stanford.edu/group/hopes/basics/dna/f_b07dbhelix2.jpg The text accompanying the model states: ========================================== Note the sugar phosphate backbone spiralling around the bases in the center. ========================================== So the backbone forms the outer helix and the bases form the inner helix. Now the relation between electric and magnetic field is the boundary case. This is seen most clearly in Alfven waves where this structure has been explicitly recognised but is true generally although not recognised [yet 8-) ]. Now this is very interesting cos it suggests the EM relationship is the template for DNA. Cheers, Frank Grimer and my thanks to Jones for broaching the subject of templates. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 11 04:46:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3BBkOrG022401; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 04:46:24 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3BBkMop022378; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 04:46:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 04:46:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=r75e6bbDhDWSgsIQ57D3qkAsJQgnQfjUCPHhRY/+sW1tFwWSda9Lo4iE+wE+t/ht; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064211114610378@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Does A Voltage Alter The Ether? Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 05:46:10 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9409da82b3bd6641b4b1fd103d57534a594350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.185 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67506 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII A parallel-plate vacuum capacitor with Capacitance C = K*eo * Area/s stores an energy W = V^2 * K*eo*Area/2s newton-meters (or joules) (K = 1) with the plate to plate Force F = W/s newton-meter/meter = newton Does the field E = V/s change the value of K to more or less than 1 (unity) ? IOW, does it create a low pressure "bubble" in the ether at high energy densities between the plates? Detectable Index of refraction change? Thanks in Advance. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
A parallel-plate vacuum capacitor with  Capacitance C = K*eo * Area/s
 
stores an energy  W = V^2 * K*eo*Area/2s newton-meters (or joules) (K = 1)
 
with the plate to plate Force  F  = W/s  newton-meter/meter = newton
 
Does the field E = V/s  change the value of K to more
or less than 1 (unity) ?
 
IOW, does it create a low pressure "bubble" in the ether at
high energy densities between the plates?
 
Detectable Index of refraction change?
 
Thanks in Advance.
 
Fred
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 11 05:43:01 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3BCgoU0014196; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 05:42:50 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3BCgmqF014181; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 05:42:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 05:42:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=FknduZxvC/NcploFU3ShVWWkEpE0KGRk8m+Leq4QyQ/QK7hsHN+BmhzYHAeVGhMM; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064211124227898@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Does A Voltage Alter The Ether? Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 06:42:27 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940aeb821389486babbda3fbf8d7158f4fb350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.110 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67507 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII This primer implies that the ether will squish out, and require more potential V to store more energy which will squish out more ether,and so on if coefficient K keeps dropping ? :-) http://www1.gantep.edu.tr/~koc/EP331Lecture/emtlec7.pdf ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/11/2006 5:47:04 AM Subject: Re: Does A Voltage Alter The Ether? A parallel-plate vacuum capacitor with Capacitance C = K*eo * Area/s stores an energy W = V^2 * K*eo*Area/2s newton-meters (or joules) (K = 1) with the plate to plate Force F = W/s newton-meter/meter = newton Does the field E = V/s change the value of K to more or less than 1 (unity) ? IOW, does it create a low pressure "bubble" in the ether at high energy densities between the plates? Detectable Index of refraction change? Thanks in Advance. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
This primer implies that the ether will squish out, and require more
potential V to store more energy which will squish out more ether,and so on
if coefficient K keeps dropping ? :-)
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/11/2006 5:47:04 AM
Subject: Re: Does A Voltage Alter The Ether?

A parallel-plate vacuum capacitor with  Capacitance C = K*eo * Area/s
 
stores an energy  W = V^2 * K*eo*Area/2s newton-meters (or joules) (K = 1)
 
with the plate to plate Force  F  = W/s  newton-meter/meter = newton
 
Does the field E = V/s  change the value of K to more
or less than 1 (unity) ?
 
IOW, does it create a low pressure "bubble" in the ether at
high energy densities between the plates?
 
Detectable Index of refraction change?
 
Thanks in Advance.
 
Fred
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 11 07:46:33 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3BEjrSe012945; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 07:45:54 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3BEjmmg012867; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 07:45:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 07:45:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=qY6NfjXc7BD6MKXvA697Gfqk+1vgZvt5JW6xlcHne/IW658RFLjEjbsDHek6t8a6; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064211144531779@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Does A Voltage Alter The Ether? Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 08:45:31 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940b69c056b608f80507a3cc6cc5af57bef350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.165.35 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67508 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII OTOH, if it goes the other way, as you increase the Potential V, more ether is compressed between the plates as coefficient K increases thus increasing capacitance C and stored energy W' = 1/2 K'* C * V'^2 , if there is ZPE brought in with the ether the discharge of the capacitor should be over-unity by the amount of ZPE stored? Or does it result in a "negative energy field" that repels gravity? Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/11/2006 6:43:23 AM Subject: Re: Does A Voltage Alter The Ether? This primer implies that the ether will squish out, and require more potential V to store more energy which will squish out more ether,and so on if coefficient K keeps dropping ? :-) http://www1.gantep.edu.tr/~koc/EP331Lecture/emtlec7.pdf ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/11/2006 5:47:04 AM Subject: Re: Does A Voltage Alter The Ether? A parallel-plate vacuum capacitor with Capacitance C = K*eo * Area/s stores an energy W = V^2 * K*eo*Area/2s newton-meters (or joules) (K = 1) with the plate to plate Force F = W/s newton-meter/meter = newton Does the field E = V/s change the value of K to more or less than 1 (unity) ? IOW, does it create a low pressure "bubble" in the ether at high energy densities between the plates? Detectable Index of refraction change? Thanks in Advance. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
OTOH, if it goes the other way, as you increase the Potential V,
more ether is compressed between the plates as coefficient K
increases thus increasing capacitance C  and stored energy
W' = 1/2 K'* C * V'^2 , if there is ZPE brought in with the ether
the discharge of the capacitor should be over-unity by the amount
of ZPE stored?
 
Or does it result in a "negative energy field" that repels gravity?
 
Fred
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/11/2006 6:43:23 AM
Subject: Re: Does A Voltage Alter The Ether?

This primer implies that the ether will squish out, and require more
potential V to store more energy which will squish out more ether,and so on
if coefficient K keeps dropping ? :-)
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/11/2006 5:47:04 AM
Subject: Re: Does A Voltage Alter The Ether?

A parallel-plate vacuum capacitor with  Capacitance C = K*eo * Area/s
 
stores an energy  W = V^2 * K*eo*Area/2s newton-meters (or joules) (K = 1)
 
with the plate to plate Force  F  = W/s  newton-meter/meter = newton
 
Does the field E = V/s  change the value of K to more
or less than 1 (unity) ?
 
IOW, does it create a low pressure "bubble" in the ether at
high energy densities between the plates?
 
Detectable Index of refraction change?
 
Thanks in Advance.
 
Fred
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 11 08:13:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3BFCrVh028018; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 08:12:53 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3BFCpDw028003; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 08:12:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 08:12:51 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <003001c65d7a$65035bb0$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Subject: Moto-Gen reflux efficiency Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 08:12:47 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67509 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have been looking for this kind of nuts-and-bolts information for some time... "Optimizing a Permanent Magnet Alternator for Micro-hydro Application" is an excellent article for anyone interested in small-scale wind/solar/hydro energy ... and beyond ... even with an eye towards the Holy Grail of OU power (such as by using a "negative resistance" or other gainful regime between the drive motor and alternator reflux current) < big g> . It was written by Dr Tom Chalko, Scientific E Research, Mt Best, Australia, and centers on a particular motor used "down under" which is an offshoot of the famous CSIRO designed motor which is 98+% efficient - a figure which is far more than most small motors in the 1 kW range. This particular motor comes from a washing machine - which is the most efficient in the world, according to the manufacturer - Fisher and Paykel. Robin v S. has probably heard of them. I had been wondering how high the *net* efficient that this kind of setup could be, that is: when the ultra-efficient motor is rewired as a generator and the power recirculated back. The answer is far more complex than you might imagine but the executive summary is ~97+ % for the optimized generator. Consequently with an optimized setup including a 98% efficient motor driving a 97 % efficient generator, and with the key ingredient - something "magic" boosting the return power, one would need "only" a COP of about 1.06-1.07 *net* electrical-to-electrical overunity in their OU device, in order to achieve the self-running condition. Caveat: This feat will NOT eliminate the oil crisis at first, but is guaranteed to win you the Nobel prize within a few years and the No-Mobil prize in a few decades. Stated another way, if you can tailor even a 7% gain in an electrical to electrical device - and heaven knows, there are many, many of these on the internet with far greater claims... like the PAGD (anode glow) variety, and like the claimed negative-resistance range in the Chung experiment: "Apparent negative electrical resistance in carbon fiber composites," by Shoukai Wang and D.D.L. Chung - Composites, Part B, Vol. 30, 1999, p. 579-590. ..and several Naudin experiments: http://jlnlabs.imars.com/cnr/cnrexp1.htm ...and a plethora of others, too numerous to detail now. That figure-of-merit is a remarkably low requirement when you weigh it against the many claims - it suggests that a COP = 1.07 is sufficient for self-power. And again, this would be e-2-e and it will not end the oil crisis today - but it will guarantee follow-on R&D funding in the tens of billions - that is - only if you can pull off self-power (several days should be adequate). Stated very simply: self-power is INDISPUTABLE proof of overunity (so long as there are no hidden wires, batteries, etc) and it is likely that nothing short of this requirement will ever silence the skeptics. Abstract: This article reports a procedure for modifying an existing permanent magnet alternator-rectifier system to achieve the maximum possible efficiency in the predetermined output power range at a given rotating speed. Several methods of altering performance of the alternator-rectifier system are discussed and compared. The article demonstrates that a 1kW alternator-rectifier system can be intelligently modified to generate as little as 100 Watts with 97% efficiency. The article also presents a simple and accurate method of measuring alternator efficiency. In order to improve the efficiency of any alternator-rectifier system it seems necessary to match the actual power extracted from the alternator with its "optimal" output power at which the alternator has the maximum possible efficiency. This can be achieved either by modifying alternator design parameters or its operating conditions.... This article is important for demonstrating that by reducing the core size [or matching the power without doing so] it is possible to generate 100Watts with 97.1% efficiency at a voltage of our choice... and it is a short step from there to the further conclusions above. OK, Now we are getting down to brass tacks, as they say, and there is no excuse for not proving OU beyond any doubt (i.e. by showing self-power) with any device claiming even a modest COP (e-2-e) ... Perhaps Terry will forward this information to Mr. Sprain - with the advice that if had he followed this simple route, and put his funds into self-powering his device, instead of spending megabucks on patent attorneys and ambiguous torque measuring devices - then he would either be on the road to Stockholm or back to the drawing board - but with some real knowledge of the bottom line situation with his device. He has neither now. Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 11 10:18:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3BHHwBQ025539; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:17:58 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3BHHq50025498; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:17:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:17:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=gMEiMVrq1N0988J8PxJXpgYa7XFiYkdgDla1eYBgxfqHJXgsGLrERbQGHhSjOnVq; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064211171736948@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Colloidal Graphite ZPE Pump Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 11:17:36 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9401c78e72e037fce5b0c493fae7e3ea39c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.120.41 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67510 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII A bottle of 300 farad 200 grams of graphite in"Aquadag" shaken hard after ZPE has charged up the "series diode-double-layer capacitor" by about 0.1 volts above the zeta potential could release 1/2 x 300 x 0.1^2 = 1.5 joules of free energy. Was the water that Potapov, Griggs-Huffman et al, loaded with colloidal particles of some type? http://www.electrochemicals.com/viasand.pdf http://electrochem.cwru.edu/ed/encycl/art-c03-elchem-cap.htm " The Helmholtz region capacitance "CH" is of special significance for electrochemical capacitors since it is directly dependent on accessible electrode area and has large values (relative to those for regular dielectric capacitors) between about 16 µF/cm2 and about 40-50 µF/cm2, depending on electrode potential, the chemical nature of the metal surface, chemical nature of the solvent, and the types of ions (and their solvation by the solvent) present in the electrolyte solution. Hence, it is seen that with large specific-area porous electrodes, for example at carbons having say 1000 m2/g of material and exhibiting, say, 15 µF/(real cm2) of double-layer capacitance in some suitable electrolyte solution, the accessible capacitance "C" is 1000 (m2/g) × 10,000 (cm2/m2) × 15 (µF/cm2) = 150 million µF/g, that is 150 farads/g, a very large capacitance! " ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
A bottle of  300 farad 200 grams of graphite in"Aquadag" shaken hard after
ZPE has charged up the "series diode-double-layer capacitor" by about 0.1 volts
above the zeta potential could release
1/2 x 300 x 0.1^2 = 1.5 joules of free energy.
 
Was the water that Potapov, Griggs-Huffman et al, loaded with colloidal particles
of some type?
 
 
 
" The Helmholtz region capacitance "CH" is of special significance for electrochemical capacitors since it is directly dependent on accessible electrode area and has large values (relative to those for regular dielectric capacitors) between about 16 µF/cm2 and about 40-50 µF/cm2, depending on electrode potential, the chemical nature of the metal surface, chemical nature of the solvent, and the types of ions (and their solvation by the solvent) present in the electrolyte solution.
Hence, it is seen that with large specific-area porous electrodes, for example at carbons having say 1000 m2/g of material and exhibiting, say, 15 µF/(real cm2) of double-layer capacitance in some suitable electrolyte solution, the accessible capacitance "C" is 1000 (m2/g) × 10,000 (cm2/m2) × 15 (µF/cm2) = 150 million µF/g, that is 150 farads/g, a very large capacitance! "
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 11 10:38:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3BHbrTU001988; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:37:54 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3BHbqIl001970; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:37:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:37:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:37:45 -0400 Message-Id: <8C82BA5C709BE9C-2EBC-1BD9@mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <003001c65d7a$65035bb0$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <003001c65d7a$65035bb0$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Moto-Gen reflux efficiency Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.134 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3BHbon7001954 Resent-Message-ID: <-gdZN.A.ue.vl-OEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67511 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene Perhaps Terry will forward this information to Mr. Sprain - with the advice that if had he followed this simple route, and put his funds into self-powering his device, instead of spending megabucks on patent attorneys and ambiguous torque measuring devices - then he would either be on the road to Stockholm or back to the drawing board - but with some real knowledge of the bottom line situation with his device. He has neither now.  <><><><><><><> Your remote viewing classes are paying off, Jones. I spent the afternoon with Paul yesterday and played with EMILIE for a few hours. Paul thought he had a three phase alternator from a windmill manufacturer: http://www.windenergy.com/Air_X_Spec_Sheet.pdf I'm not sure what it was; but, it put out some odd waveforms and the voltage was too low to fire the electromagnet from the circuit I built. I think the alternator was broken. Paul has now ordered: http://www.tidalforce.com/docs/DIYManual.pdf or at least the motor/generator part. I don't know what it's torque curve vs. output looks like. I guess we'll find out. It wasn't my idea to order it. Paul has contacted CSIRO and they said they would build the alternator you describe; however, their lead time will be long due to current projects (pun intended). Meanwhile, I got to play with EMILIE any way I wished since it was just Paul and me. Last time he had other investors present. This thing really appears to work. It's interesting to actually hold the rotor as you move it around the spiral manually. And when she's a runnin' you can grasp the shaft and feel the torque, squeezing her shaft with your fingers until her breathing becomes labored and slows . . . oh! Sorry. Interesting thing is that it will actually run backwards for a few cycles due to the intensity of the electromagnet pulse. It's amazing that the 28 ms pulse can do that. Anyway, I have lots of vacation time coming so, I'll see if I can get the bicycle motor/generator to make it self run. But, the fact is, I really think this machine *will* self-run. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 11 11:24:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3BIOZ2Q021852; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 11:24:35 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3BIOXQb021835; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 11:24:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 11:24:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 14:24:19 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C82BAC4873478F-281C-2727@mblkn-m09.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Just what is the Beta-atmosphere? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.73 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <1fMRcC.A.CVF.gR_OEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67512 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gnorts, Vorts, If you have read the posts from Mr. Grimer on his concept of the Beta-atm; but, thought it merely the ravings of a lunatic, you are probably right -- but so is the lunatic. Frank sent me some high res images of the chapter which describes the experiments which led him to this entirely new way of viewing reality. I have compiled this into a .pdf file a little over 2.2 MByte in size. So, if you've ever wondered whether there really is an aether, yes Virginia, there really is a Beta-atmosphere which holds all things together. And I recommend that you can convince yourself by reading this treatise. You can download it from the Beta-atmosphere group files, from my web page: http://www.geocities.com/terry1094 or, I will happily send the file directly to your mailbox via email. My web page is limited to 4.2 Mbyte d/l per hour; so, you might have to try later if you get an overload message. Terry knowing we view things inside out ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 11 12:26:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3BJBoHV009600; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 12:11:51 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3BJBUJf009501; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 12:11:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 12:11:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <007201c65d9b$b86e2ca0$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <003001c65d7a$65035bb0$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C82BA5C709BE9C-2EBC-1BD9@mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: Moto-Gen reflux efficiency Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 12:11:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67513 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net > <><><><><><><> > Your remote viewing classes are paying off, Jones. Probably picked up a free-floating "meme" from reading Hal Puthoff's material. > I spent the afternoon with Paul yesterday and played with EMILIE > for a few hours. Paul thought he had a three phase alternator > from a windmill manufacturer: Here is a site on how to wire up the Fisher & Paykel Smart Drive motors: http://www.watchtv.net/~rburmeister/smart.html You can pick one of these up, direct from Oz for cheap, if you look on some of the wind/hydro home-power sites (stay away from eBay on this one - they are three times higher)... From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 11 12:45:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3BJin3s023864; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 12:44:50 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3BJim6Y023849; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 12:44:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 12:44:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=VSfmw2/F6CU6BfqWABVrdKtAbCTJoN1K7zpgZyxG01Rl+CLTBiZZOcjVSoxIE4ae; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064211194442569@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Does A Voltage Alter The Ether? Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:44:42 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940f202ae494ce267797c62e116943cd1f3350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.4 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67514 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Since I was ignored by the vorts. :-) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred, I do consider on occasion that the effective refractive index of the vacuum (as in attached) is a measure of "ether" energy density. Cheers, Hal Foundations of Physics, Vol. 32, No. 6, June 2002 (© 2002) Polarizable-Vacuum (PV) Approach to General Relativity H. E. Puthoff1 Received November 18, 2001; revised February 24, 2002 " Thus we see that changes in the vacuum dielectric constant K are driven by mass density (first term), EM energy density (second term), and the vacuum polarization energy density itself (third term). Equations (33) and (34), together with Maxwell’s equations for propagation in a medium with variable dielectric constant, thus constitute the master equations to be used in discussing matter-field interactions in a vacuum of variable dielectric constant as required in the PV formulation of GR." ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/11/2006 8:46:41 AM Subject: Re: Does A Voltage Alter The Ether? OTOH, if it goes the other way, as you increase the Potential V, more ether is compressed between the plates as coefficient K increases thus increasing capacitance C and stored energy W' = 1/2 K'* C * V'^2 , if there is ZPE brought in with the ether the discharge of the capacitor should be over-unity by the amount of ZPE stored? Or does it result in a "negative energy field" that repels gravity? Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/11/2006 6:43:23 AM Subject: Re: Does A Voltage Alter The Ether? This primer implies that the ether will squish out, and require more potential V to store more energy which will squish out more ether,and so on if coefficient K keeps dropping ? :-) http://www1.gantep.edu.tr/~koc/EP331Lecture/emtlec7.pdf ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/11/2006 5:47:04 AM Subject: Re: Does A Voltage Alter The Ether? A parallel-plate vacuum capacitor with Capacitance C = K*eo * Area/s stores an energy W = V^2 * K*eo*Area/2s newton-meters (or joules) (K = 1) with the plate to plate Force F = W/s newton-meter/meter = newton Does the field E = V/s change the value of K to more or less than 1 (unity) ? IOW, does it create a low pressure "bubble" in the ether at high energy densities between the plates? Detectable Index of refraction change? Thanks in Advance. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

Since I was ignored by the vorts.  :-)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fred,

I do consider on occasion that the effective refractive index of the vacuum (as in attached)
is a measure of "ether" energy density.
 
Cheers,
Hal  

Foundations of Physics, Vol. 32, No. 6, June 2002 (© 2002)

Polarizable-Vacuum (PV) Approach to General Relativity

H. E. Puthoff1

Received November 18, 2001; revised February 24, 2002

" Thus we see that changes in the vacuum dielectric constant K  are driven

by mass density (first term), EM energy density (second term), and the

vacuum polarization energy density itself (third term). Equations (33) and

(34), together with Maxwell’s equations for propagation in a medium with

variable dielectric constant, thus constitute the master equations to be used

in discussing matter-field interactions in a vacuum of variable dielectric

constant as required in the PV formulation of GR."

 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/11/2006 8:46:41 AM
Subject: Re: Does A Voltage Alter The Ether?

OTOH, if it goes the other way, as you increase the Potential V,
more ether is compressed between the plates as coefficient K
increases thus increasing capacitance C  and stored energy
W' = 1/2 K'* C * V'^2 , if there is ZPE brought in with the ether
the discharge of the capacitor should be over-unity by the amount
of ZPE stored?
 
Or does it result in a "negative energy field" that repels gravity?
 
Fred
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/11/2006 6:43:23 AM
Subject: Re: Does A Voltage Alter The Ether?

This primer implies that the ether will squish out, and require more
potential V to store more energy which will squish out more ether,and so on
if coefficient K keeps dropping ? :-)
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/11/2006 5:47:04 AM
Subject: Re: Does A Voltage Alter The Ether?

A parallel-plate vacuum capacitor with  Capacitance C = K*eo * Area/s
 
stores an energy  W = V^2 * K*eo*Area/2s newton-meters (or joules) (K = 1)
 
with the plate to plate Force  F  = W/s  newton-meter/meter = newton
 
Does the field E = V/s  change the value of K to more
or less than 1 (unity) ?
 
IOW, does it create a low pressure "bubble" in the ether at
high energy densities between the plates?
 
Detectable Index of refraction change?
 
Thanks in Advance.
 
Fred
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 11 13:24:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3BKNqWH006509; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:23:53 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3BKNpZ6006492; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:23:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:23:51 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 16:23:48 -0400 Message-Id: <8C82BBCF9701374-281C-2C7C@mblkn-m09.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <003001c65d7a$65035bb0$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C82BA5C709BE9C-2EBC-1BD9@mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> <007201c65d9b$b86e2ca0$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <007201c65d9b$b86e2ca0$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Moto-Gen reflux efficiency Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.73 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3BKNoPR006478 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67515 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene Here is a site on how to wire up the Fisher & Paykel Smart Drive motors:  http://www.watchtv.net/~rburmeister/smart.html    You can pick one of these up, direct from Oz for cheap, if you look on some of the wind/hydro home-power sites (stay away from eBay on this one - they are three times higher)...  <><><><><><> Thanks. It's probably a bit of overkill; but, I sent them a note asking how much $TBA USD [sic] is. First, I'll have to try Paul's electric bicycle motor.   ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 11 18:25:02 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3C1OrfE022340; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 18:24:53 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3C1OpvY022328; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 18:24:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 18:24:51 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 21:24:50 -0400 Message-Id: <8C82BE707520D0C-2FD0-4093@mblkn-m03.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <8C82BAC4873478F-281C-2727@mblkn-m09.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <8C82BAC4873478F-281C-2727@mblkn-m09.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Just what is the Beta-atmosphere? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.67 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3C1Oog7022305 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67516 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Gnorts, Vorts,  <><><><><><> Seeing how as we probably have lots of new lurkers, let me explain the above salutation. Quite simply, if you reverse the spelling of the man who made the giant leap for mankind you get: gnortsmrA lieN => Gnorts, Mr. Alien. Hence Gnorts, Vortexians! Fnord, Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 11 18:56:43 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3C1uUYq002277; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 18:56:30 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3C1uSkW002259; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 18:56:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 18:56:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060412015625494.7897B1C00082@mwinf3103.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060412015627.00a1ac48@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 02:56:27 +0100 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Just what is the Beta-atmosphere? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3C1uQbR002232 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67517 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:24 pm 11/04/2006 -0400, Terry wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net > > Gnorts, Vorts,  > ><><><><><><> > > Seeing how as we probably have lots of new > lurkers, let me explain the above salutation. > > Quite simply, if you reverse the spelling of the > man who made the giant >leap for mankind you get: > > gnortsmrA lieN => Gnorts, Mr. Alien. > > Hence > > Gnorts, Vortexians! > > Fnord, > > Terry Dammit Knuckles! You've blown my cover. 8-( http://www.grimer2.freeserve.co.uk/pge18.htm From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 11 19:11:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3C2Aw58008013; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 19:10:59 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3C2AswP007972; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 19:10:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 19:10:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 22:10:51 -0400 Message-Id: <8C82BED74D380EB-19E8-214C0@mblkn-m19.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <2.2.32.20060412015627.00a1ac48@pop.freeserve.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.20060412015627.00a1ac48@pop.freeserve.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Just what is the Beta-atmosphere? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.137 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67518 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Grimer Dammit Knuckles! You've blown my cover. 8-( http://www.grimer2.freeserve.co.uk/pge18.htm <><><><><><> Nice hair! Matches your shirt, etc. You're up awfully late . . . have some warm milk and tea . . . we'll knock you up in the morn. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 11 23:27:20 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3C6RCra032633; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 23:27:13 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3C6R5El032594; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 23:27:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 23:27:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060411232721.02b26150@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 23:29:33 -0700 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: Valone USPTO Hearing Transcript Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67519 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://newenergytimes.com/Library/2004Valone-USPTO-Hearing.pdf 240 pages (double-spaced) From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 12 00:32:43 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3C7WVTt020662; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 00:32:31 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3C7WSqX020635; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 00:32:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 00:32:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <443CACD8.2070109@usfamily.net> Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 02:31:36 -0500 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Iran's nuclear program Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67520 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Needless to say, the topic de jour on talk radio. is atomic weapons. It took America several years to go from enriching uranium to building a bomb. It seems to me that if atomic weapons were the desired product, a Candu reactor or a graphite modeated reactor and not enrichment would be the best route. Then there is the matter of minaturizing the device OTOH, the information on the missing hard drives would probably take care of that. Someone mentioned an EMP weapon. The commentator contended that there a degree of complexity between a simple atom bomb and an EMP weapon. --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 12 00:52:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3C7q2u2026267; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 00:52:07 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3C7prYg026215; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 00:51:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 00:51:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060412075144832.CB4B51C000E4@mwinf3001.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060412075146.00a06878@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 08:51:46 +0100 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Valone USPTO Hearing Transcript Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67521 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:29 pm 11/04/2006 -0700, Steven wrote: > http://newenergytimes.com/Library/2004Valone-USPTO-Hearing.pdf > > 240 pages (double-spaced) I'm part way through reading this document and I felt I just had to post my preliminary impressions 8-) Not only is it fascinating informative - but in places it is absolutely hilarious as well. For example, ================================================= THE ARBITRATOR: Commissioner Godici, what was his area of specialization as a patent examiner? MR. WAY: He said he changed -- THE ARBITRATOR: I know. I know. But what -- MR. ROBERTSON: Fish hooks and mousetraps. ================================================== When I got to that bit I nearly fell off my chair, laughing. 8-) I better get back to the rest of the transcript. Frank From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 12 01:37:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3C8bRbF009531; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 01:37:28 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3C8bQnr009495; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 01:37:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 01:37:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 08:52:03 +0100 From: "Chambers, Robert (UK)" Subject: RE: Naudin's Coanda Effect UFO To: "Stephen A. Lawrence" , vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: <984B4C94D7A59C48813E1C37EAB67C6E27DB36@glkms2121.greenlnk.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Thread-Topic: Naudin's Coanda Effect UFO Thread-Index: AcZeBfy/BNA5bwxWSzC1lYYfka169A== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Apr 2006 07:52:04.0554 (UTC) FILETIME=[FD61F2A0:01C65E05] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3C8bELL009399 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67522 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >But what on Earth is a "piezo gyro"? Probably something along the lines of the devices described at the link below - a "solid state" gyro made from micromachined silicon. It doesn't actually spin, it vibrates a little like a bell, but is able to detect rotation and thus is able to tell a correction system how to counteract it. http://www.siliconsensing.com/rscience/how.htm It's also used in the Segway stabilisation mechanism. Rob ******************************************************************** This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. ******************************************************************** From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 12 03:18:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3CAISor006737; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 03:18:28 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3CAIQIl006722; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 03:18:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 03:18:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=XUSJW7adrRAsgct+9BW69yGOAj/YYzLmYE5vrsO3laRb1RdZyYMIgSO8d4W0iR0K; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064312101759876@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 04:17:59 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94077bad17be7b77707ee23a77f68809e4c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.79 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67523 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hal Puthoff's relevant papers on the subject: Apparently they haven't kept up on Electrogravity Experiments. http://www.space-mixing-theory.com/article2.pdf Polarizable Vacuum: http://www.earthtech.org/publications/PV_Found_of_Physics.pdf Effects: http://www.earthtech.org/publications/2005%20-%20Levi-Civita%20Effect%20in%20PV.pdf " Levi–Civita effect" " Soon after Einstein published his theory of General Relativity, the Italian mathematical physicist Tullio Levi–Civita considered the possibility of the creation of an artificial gravitational field via generation of a static uniform magnetic or electric 1 In [1] it is shown that the modified velocity of light derives from underlying changes in vacuum permittivity and permeability å0 . å = Kå0, µ0 . µ = Kµ0, hence c(= 1/vµ0å0) . c/K(= 1/vµå). Levi–Civita effect in the polarizable vacuum (PV) representation of general relativity 485 field (see Appendix B for a detailed description) [11, 12]. In the context of the modern investigation of the theory of traversable wormholes [13] it was originally thought by one of us (Maccone) that the Levi–Civita spacetime metric would be considered a magnetic or electric field induced wormhole, and examined its implications for interstellar travel and communication [14, 15]. However, it was later proved [16, 17], that the Levi–Civita spacetime metric actually describes a spatial hypercylinder with a position dependent gravitational potential, and possessing none of the required characteristics of a traversable wormhole (see Appendix B). The geometry is nonetheless interesting from the standpoint that it describes a unique cylindrically shaped "trapped" space." ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Hal Puthoff's relevant papers on the subject:
 
Apparently they haven't kept up on Electrogravity Experiments. 
 
 
Polarizable Vacuum:
 
 
Effects:
 
 

" Levi–Civita effect"

" Soon after Einstein published his theory of General Relativity, the Italian mathematical

physicist Tullio Levi–Civita considered the possibility of the creation of an

artificial gravitational field via generation of a static uniform magnetic or electric

1 In [1] it is shown that the modified velocity of light derives from underlying changes

in vacuum permittivity and permeability å0 . å = Kå0, µ0 . µ = Kµ0, hence

c(= 1/vµ0å0) . c/K(= 1/vµå).

Levi–Civita effect in the polarizable vacuum (PV) representation of general relativity 485

field (see Appendix B for a detailed description) [11, 12]. In the context of the

modern investigation of the theory of traversable wormholes [13] it was originally

thought by one of us (Maccone) that the Levi–Civita spacetime metric would be

considered a magnetic or electric field induced wormhole, and examined its implications

for interstellar travel and communication [14, 15]. However, it was later

proved [16, 17], that the Levi–Civita spacetime metric actually describes a spatial

hypercylinder with a position dependent gravitational potential, and possessing

none of the required characteristics of a traversable wormhole (see Appendix B).

The geometry is nonetheless interesting from the standpoint that it describes a

unique cylindrically shaped "trapped" space."

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 12 04:04:21 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3CB46sM021440; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 04:04:06 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3CB44Li021421; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 04:04:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 04:04:04 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=gBmwOZgWZJEirplr8NwBB4XjNUspKd/NojJBiV/DQy5qXvGglTbp/m+Y73b+dLZC; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006431211351119@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 05:03:51 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94038030c36388a49cd9a3b7bb82437262c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.98 Resent-Message-ID: <8vJuk.A.lOF.k6NPEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67524 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Bottom Line, Electrons Repel Gravity, but, the much stronger attractive 1/R^2 Electrostatic Force keeps them close by. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Frederick Sparber Sun, 09 Apr 2006 21:57:40 -0700 At the Bohr Radius (R) = 5.29e-11 meters the Electrostatic Attraction force (F) between the proton and electron is k*q1*q2/R^2 = 8.23e-8 nt. Coincidentally, the point pole magnetic attraction (or repulsion) force F = uo* M^2/[4(pi)R^2] = 8.23e-8 nt Where M is the magnetic moment constant, 4.8e-11 ampere-meter for any particle. This suggests that the Bohr radius is the balance point between the electrostatic attraction and magnetic dipole repulsion between the electron and proton, provided that the magnetic fields of the particles are oscillating at some frequency. The nature of the Proton-Electron-Proton ---> Deuteron fusion reaction and also the Proton-Proton ---> D + neutrino+ e+ fusion reaction once the electrostatic coulomb barrier is surmounted also lends credence to this aspect. If this true, an Electrogravity Levitation force is attainable between the predominately proton mass of the earth (~ 4000 times that of the electron mass) with manipulation of electrons and/or energy fields resulting from electron manipulation. ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 4/12/2006 4:19:25 AM Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Hal Puthoff's relevant papers on the subject: Apparently they haven't kept up on Electrogravity Experiments. http://www.space-mixing-theory.com/article2.pdf Polarizable Vacuum: http://www.earthtech.org/publications/PV_Found_of_Physics.pdf Effects: http://www.earthtech.org/publications/2005%20-%20Levi-Civita%20Effect%20in%20PV.pdf " Levi–Civita effect" " Soon after Einstein published his theory of General Relativity, the Italian mathematical physicist Tullio Levi–Civita considered the possibility of the creation of an artificial gravitational field via generation of a static uniform magnetic or electric 1 In [1] it is shown that the modified velocity of light derives from underlying changes in vacuum permittivity and permeability å0 . å = Kå0, µ0 . µ = Kµ0, hence c(= 1/vµ0å0) . c/K(= 1/vµå). Levi–Civita effect in the polarizable vacuum (PV) representation of general relativity 485 field (see Appendix B for a detailed description) [11, 12]. In the context of the modern investigation of the theory of traversable wormholes [13] it was originally thought by one of us (Maccone) that the Levi–Civita spacetime metric would be considered a magnetic or electric field induced wormhole, and examined its implications for interstellar travel and communication [14, 15]. However, it was later proved [16, 17], that the Levi–Civita spacetime metric actually describes a spatial hypercylinder with a position dependent gravitational potential, and possessing none of the required characteristics of a traversable wormhole (see Appendix B). The geometry is nonetheless interesting from the standpoint that it describes a unique cylindrically shaped "trapped" space." ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

Bottom Line, Electrons Repel Gravity,

but, the much stronger attractive 1/R^2 Electrostatic Force keeps them close by.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Frederick Sparber
Sun, 09 Apr 2006 21:57:40 -0700

At the Bohr Radius  (R) = 5.29e-11 meters the Electrostatic Attraction
force (F) between the proton and electron is k*q1*q2/R^2 = 8.23e-8 nt.
Coincidentally, the point  pole magnetic attraction (or repulsion)
force F = uo* M^2/[4(pi)R^2] = 8.23e-8 nt
Where M is the magnetic moment constant, 4.8e-11 ampere-meter
for any particle.
This suggests that the Bohr radius is the balance point between the electrostatic
attraction and magnetic dipole repulsion between the electron and proton, provided
that the magnetic fields of the particles are oscillating at some frequency.
The nature of the Proton-Electron-Proton ---> Deuteron
fusion reaction and also the Proton-Proton ---> D + neutrino+ e+
fusion reaction once the  electrostatic coulomb barrier is surmounted
also lends credence to this aspect.
If this true, an Electrogravity Levitation force is attainable between the predominately
proton mass of the earth (~ 4000 times that of the electron mass) with manipulation
of electrons and/or energy fields resulting from electron manipulation.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/12/2006 4:19:25 AM
Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons

Hal Puthoff's relevant papers on the subject:
 
Apparently they haven't kept up on Electrogravity Experiments. 
 
 
Polarizable Vacuum:
 
 
Effects:
 
 

" Levi–Civita effect"

" Soon after Einstein published his theory of General Relativity, the Italian mathematical

physicist Tullio Levi–Civita considered the possibility of the creation of an

artificial gravitational field via generation of a static uniform magnetic or electric

1 In [1] it is shown that the modified velocity of light derives from underlying changes

in vacuum permittivity and permeability å0 . å = Kå0, µ0 . µ = Kµ0, hence

c(= 1/vµ0å0) . c/K(= 1/vµå).

Levi–Civita effect in the polarizable vacuum (PV) representation of general relativity 485

field (see Appendix B for a detailed description) [11, 12]. In the context of the

modern investigation of the theory of traversable wormholes [13] it was originally

thought by one of us (Maccone) that the Levi–Civita spacetime metric would be

considered a magnetic or electric field induced wormhole, and examined its implications

for interstellar travel and communication [14, 15]. However, it was later

proved [16, 17], that the Levi–Civita spacetime metric actually describes a spatial

hypercylinder with a position dependent gravitational potential, and possessing

none of the required characteristics of a traversable wormhole (see Appendix B).

The geometry is nonetheless interesting from the standpoint that it describes a

unique cylindrically shaped "trapped" space."

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 12 05:35:56 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3CCZie9020057; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 05:35:44 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3CCZhux020047; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 05:35:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 05:35:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=uCj/HXDffrH6L8xh2ZIdru8S7keICwnT95jQZzYby18wiAFb9k0IjQx3lx8O0z8W; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064312123537334@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 06:35:37 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94029c79ba924657e95be0766faa46e1f0f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.80 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67525 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII A 2 meter tall evacuated vertical tube sitting atop or connected to the sphere of a small Van De Graaff, might allow measurement of an upward gravity force on electrons if they can be detected without error, perhaps? > > Bottom Line, Electrons Repel Gravity, > but, the much stronger attractive 1/R^2 Electrostatic Force keeps them close by. > ------------------------------------------------------------------ Frederick Sparber Sun, 09 Apr 2006 21:57:40 -0700 At the Bohr Radius (R) = 5.29e-11 meters the Electrostatic Attraction force (F) between the proton and electron is k*q1*q2/R^2 = 8.23e-8 nt. Coincidentally, the point pole magnetic attraction (or repulsion) force F = uo* M^2/[4(pi)R^2] = 8.23e-8 nt Where M is the magnetic moment constant, 4.8e-11 ampere-meter for any particle. This suggests that the Bohr radius is the balance point between the electrostatic attraction and magnetic dipole repulsion between the electron and proton, provided that the magnetic fields of the particles are oscillating at some frequency. The nature of the Proton-Electron-Proton ---> Deuteron fusion reaction and also the Proton-Proton ---> D + neutrino+ e+ fusion reaction once the electrostatic coulomb barrier is surmounted also lends credence to this aspect. If this true, an Electrogravity Levitation force is attainable between the predominately proton mass of the earth (~ 4000 times that of the electron mass) with manipulation of electrons and/or energy fields resulting from electron manipulation. ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

A  2 meter tall evacuated vertical tube sitting atop  or connected to the sphere of a small Van De Graaff,

might allow measurement of an upward gravity force on electrons if they can be

detected without error, perhaps?

>

> Bottom Line, Electrons Repel Gravity,

> but, the much stronger attractive 1/R^2 Electrostatic Force keeps them close by.

>

------------------------------------------------------------------

Frederick Sparber
Sun, 09 Apr 2006 21:57:40 -0700

At the Bohr Radius  (R) = 5.29e-11 meters the Electrostatic Attraction
force (F) between the proton and electron is k*q1*q2/R^2 = 8.23e-8 nt.
Coincidentally, the point  pole magnetic attraction (or repulsion)
force F = uo* M^2/[4(pi)R^2] = 8.23e-8 nt
Where M is the magnetic moment constant, 4.8e-11 ampere-meter
for any particle.
This suggests that the Bohr radius is the balance point between the electrostatic
attraction and magnetic dipole repulsion between the electron and proton, provided
that the magnetic fields of the particles are oscillating at some frequency.
The nature of the Proton-Electron-Proton ---> Deuteron
fusion reaction and also the Proton-Proton ---> D + neutrino+ e+
fusion reaction once the  electrostatic coulomb barrier is surmounted
also lends credence to this aspect.
If this true, an Electrogravity Levitation force is attainable between the predominately
proton mass of the earth (~ 4000 times that of the electron mass) with manipulation
of electrons and/or energy fields resulting from electron manipulation.
 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 12 06:17:04 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3CDGiTB004041; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 06:16:44 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3CDGfMa003995; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 06:16:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 06:16:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 09:16:34 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C82C4A749321B0-281C-46D7@mblkn-m09.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Vortex Lunatics? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.73 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67526 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here is the greeting message from the free_energy list on Yahoo: "Hello, Welcome to the Free Energy email list. To unsubscribe from this list or change to digest mode (recommended), go to the control page from http://groups.yahoo.com/group/free_energy Please don't flame people. This subject is very controversial and the list is comprised of both believers and skeptics. Feel free to post updates of stuff going on, but also consider responding to just the poster of a message if the rest of the subscribers wouldn't be interested. As of 7/7/02 the list has over 500 subscribers (mostly lurkers) There is a very active free energy list called vortex for people who don't mind 50 messages a day (many from lunatics). If you want to post something (doesn't matter if you lean towards belief or skepticism), go ahead to (but please limit no more than 4 a week): free_energy@yahoogroups.com You may be interested to see some recent posts from : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/free_energy/archives Eric maintains a skeptical list of the history of free energy claimants at: http://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.html Thanks, The List Owner" ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 12 06:28:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3CDIdvt005802; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 06:18:40 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3CDIbZb005764; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 06:18:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 06:18:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <029a01c65e30$2f8982a0$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-220064312123537334@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:54:07 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67527 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Why/how Fred? (just curious on how one can measure any gravity effect at all, upward or downward, on an electron) Designing experiments to test theories is not easy, you seem to be good at this. Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 2:35 PM Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons >A 2 meter tall evacuated vertical tube sitting atop or connected to the >sphere of a small Van De Graaff, > might allow measurement of an upward gravity force on electrons if they > can be > detected without error, perhaps? >> >> Bottom Line, Electrons Repel Gravity, >> but, the much stronger attractive 1/R^2 Electrostatic Force keeps them >> close by. >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Frederick Sparber > Sun, 09 Apr 2006 21:57:40 -0700 > At the Bohr Radius (R) = 5.29e-11 meters the Electrostatic Attraction > force (F) between the proton and electron is k*q1*q2/R^2 = 8.23e-8 nt. > Coincidentally, the point pole magnetic attraction (or repulsion) > force F = uo* M^2/[4(pi)R^2] = 8.23e-8 nt > Where M is the magnetic moment constant, 4.8e-11 ampere-meter > for any particle. > This suggests that the Bohr radius is the balance point between the > electrostatic > attraction and magnetic dipole repulsion between the electron and proton, > provided > that the magnetic fields of the particles are oscillating at some > frequency. > The nature of the Proton-Electron-Proton ---> Deuteron > fusion reaction and also the Proton-Proton ---> D + neutrino+ e+ > fusion reaction once the electrostatic coulomb barrier is surmounted > also lends credence to this aspect. > If this true, an Electrogravity Levitation force is attainable between the > predominately > proton mass of the earth (~ 4000 times that of the electron mass) with > manipulation > of electrons and/or energy fields resulting from electron manipulation. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 12 06:32:33 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3CDWJLY015949; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 06:32:20 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3CDWIiZ015923; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 06:32:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 06:32:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <02b101c65e35$83f18900$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <8C82C4A749321B0-281C-46D7@mblkn-m09.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: Vortex Lunatics? Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 15:32:16 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67528 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Nah he must have meant another Vortex list ;) Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 3:16 PM Subject: Vortex Lunatics? > Here is the greeting message from the free_energy list on Yahoo: > > "Hello, > > Welcome to the Free Energy email list. > > To unsubscribe from this list or change to digest mode (recommended), > go to the control page from http://groups.yahoo.com/group/free_energy > > Please don't flame people. This subject is very controversial and > the list is comprised of both believers and skeptics. Feel free to > post updates of stuff going on, but also consider responding to > just the poster of a message if the rest of the subscribers wouldn't > be interested. As of 7/7/02 the list has over 500 subscribers (mostly > lurkers) > There is a very active free energy list called vortex for people who > don't > mind 50 messages a day (many from lunatics). If you want to post > something (doesn't matter if you lean towards belief or skepticism), > go ahead to (but please limit no more than 4 a week): > free_energy@yahoogroups.com > > You may be interested to see some recent posts from : > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/free_energy/archives > > Eric maintains a skeptical list of the history of free energy > claimants at: > http://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.html > > Thanks, > The List Owner" > ___________________________________________________ > Try the New Netscape Mail Today! > Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List > http://mail.netscape.com > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 12 06:41:18 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3CDf1aP020381; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 06:41:01 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3CDewbe020356; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 06:40:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 06:40:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=r8QWYRY5+TFzudO5hkdL5c1ZcrJH7ACVS6qCyT8Lldq3/EK1LwN7PIy2qUVPOWTs; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064312134055929@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 07:40:55 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940c44264353be7e326fa675e916d75d707350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.80 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67529 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michel Jullian wrote. > > Why/how Fred? (just curious on how one can measure any gravity effect at > all, upward or downward, on an electron) > A theory without an experiment to test it isn't worth much. Einstein won his Nobel for the photoelectric effect. Then after this Deification they listened to his theories and ran some experiments. :-) The evacuated hollow field-free vertical drift tube should allow the electrons to fall upward at 9.8 meters/sec^2. I think they can be timed and their charge collected at the top. > > Designing experiments to test theories is not easy, you seem to be good at > this. > Strictly "Thought Experiments", Michel :-) Fred > > Michel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frederick Sparber" > To: "vortex-l" > Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 2:35 PM > Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons > > > >A 2 meter tall evacuated vertical tube sitting atop or connected to the > >sphere of a small Van De Graaff, > > might allow measurement of an upward gravity force on electrons if they > > can be > > detected without error, perhaps? > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 12 06:56:16 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3CDtxDH027012; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 06:56:00 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3CDtqXp026969; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 06:55:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 06:55:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <02be01c65e38$cc3d0b50$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-220064312134055929@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 15:55:46 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67530 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred Sparber wrote: >> Why/how Fred? (just curious on how one can measure any gravity effect at >> all, upward or downward, on an electron) >> > A theory without an experiment to test it isn't worth much. Einstein won > his Nobel for > the photoelectric effect. Then after this Deification > they listened to his theories and ran some experiments. :-) His theories of relativity you mean. Yes, indeed. > The evacuated hollow field-free vertical drift tube should allow the > electrons > to fall upward at 9.8 meters/sec^2. > I think they can be timed and their charge collected at the top. How? >> >> Designing experiments to test theories is not easy, you seem to be good > at >> this. >> > Strictly "Thought Experiments", Michel :-) You are too modest Fred, when I subscribed here you were running experiments on electroniums with TV CRTs weren't you? Designing a real experiment requires thought experiments anyway. Michel > > Fred >> >> Michel >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Frederick Sparber" >> To: "vortex-l" >> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 2:35 PM >> Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons >> >> >> >A 2 meter tall evacuated vertical tube sitting atop or connected to > the >> >sphere of a small Van De Graaff, >> > might allow measurement of an upward gravity force on electrons if they >> > can be >> > detected without error, perhaps? From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 12 07:21:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3CELCia004868; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 07:21:12 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3CELApP004852; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 07:21:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 07:21:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <002901c65e3c$570ee340$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <984B4C94D7A59C48813E1C37EAB67C6E27DB36@glkms2121.greenlnk.net> Subject: Re: Naudin's Coanda Effect UFO Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 07:21:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: <99GzvD.A.wLB.WzQPEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67531 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Who says history doesn't "run in cycles": The 50+ year old Avrocar: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/mufonontario/avro/avrocar.html BTW, these cycles of 50-60 years are well documented in economics... and... for the real prophet, there is aways the "Yobel cycle" Jones ... some other ~50 years old "omens" (besides the AvroCar): ...is 2006-7 the time for the long-awaited AI to appear as "really" intelligent, in a Gibsonesque way: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06002/631149.stm 1955 First McDonalds restaurant opens in Des Plains, Illinois - how can you ever top that? ...er... even with "special" sauce? 1955 Argentine Military Ousts Peron ... and all we have is Madonna 1955 Lockheed presents the CIA with the U-2 - and in 2006 the CIA has secretly managed to get a "carnivore-helper" designed into every new computer ... Here is the civilian version which got some folks in Northern Virgina very steamed up when it came out: "Perfect Keylogger" is a new generation keylogger which is absolutely undetectable. It was created as an alternative to very expensive commercial products like iSpyNow, Spector Keylogger or E-Blaster. It has the same functionality, but is significantly easier to use. Complex internal mechanisms are hidden from the user behind the friendly interface. You can install Keylogger and immediately use it without changing of its settings. Perfect Keylogger is an extremely compact, award-winning tool. It is translated into 20 languages and is increasingly popular around the world! It lets you record all keystrokes, the time they were made and the application where they were entered. It works in the absolutely stealth mode. Stealth mode means that no button or icon is present in the Task Bar, and no process title is visible in the Task Manager list. 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From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 12 08:38:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3CFbx3c003940; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 08:38:00 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3CFbw0V003924; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 08:37:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 08:37:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:46:59 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <02be01c65e38$cc3d0b50$3800a8c0@zothan> X-Rcpt-To: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67532 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Michel, Actually, Fred has some difficulties that make it hard for him to do experiments ( much like the space shuttle, he runs on LOX ). Back in the day, several of us did implement some of Freds ideas, most notably Frank Stenger. Frank did the TV experiment for Fred, although you might not have gathered that from the posting. All that despite Fred not having received a Nobel prize, which shows I suppose that we must have been guilty as charged by FreeEnergy@yahoogroups, or perhaps we don't need to "believe" in something to try it... Speaking of Frank Stenger, he did a few experiments based on Fred's hypocharge speculations, including some stuff with pulsing transmission lines as Fred was talking about earlier. How about posting some of Franks experimental results??? K. -----Original Message----- From: Michel Jullian [mailto:mj@exbang.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 9:56 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Fred Sparber wrote: >> Why/how Fred? (just curious on how one can measure any gravity effect at >> all, upward or downward, on an electron) >> > A theory without an experiment to test it isn't worth much. Einstein won > his Nobel for > the photoelectric effect. Then after this Deification > they listened to his theories and ran some experiments. :-) His theories of relativity you mean. Yes, indeed. > The evacuated hollow field-free vertical drift tube should allow the > electrons > to fall upward at 9.8 meters/sec^2. > I think they can be timed and their charge collected at the top. How? >> >> Designing experiments to test theories is not easy, you seem to be good > at >> this. >> > Strictly "Thought Experiments", Michel :-) You are too modest Fred, when I subscribed here you were running experiments on electroniums with TV CRTs weren't you? Designing a real experiment requires thought experiments anyway. Michel > > Fred >> >> Michel >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Frederick Sparber" >> To: "vortex-l" >> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 2:35 PM >> Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons >> >> >> >A 2 meter tall evacuated vertical tube sitting atop or connected to > the >> >sphere of a small Van De Graaff, >> > might allow measurement of an upward gravity force on electrons if they >> > can be >> > detected without error, perhaps? From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 12 08:45:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3CFiiGA007161; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 08:44:44 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3CFigEM007131; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 08:44:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 08:44:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:44:42 -0400 Message-Id: <8C82C5F26745540-293C-B83F@mblkn-m07.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <984B4C94D7A59C48813E1C37EAB67C6E27DB36@glkms2121.greenlnk.net> <002901c65e3c$570ee340$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <002901c65e3c$570ee340$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Naudin's Coanda Effect UFO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.71 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3CFiduC007104 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67533 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene "Perfect Keylogger" is a new generation keylogger which is absolutely undetectable.  <><><><><><> Not for long: http://www.spywareguide.com/product_show.php?id=588 but this one knocked my socks off (Bad Sony, Bad): http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/10/sony-rootkits-and-digital-rights .html http://tinyurl.com/auyjl Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 12 09:26:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3CGQIEP025830; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 09:26:19 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3CGQHFE025809; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 09:26:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 09:26:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:26:29 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: moving vs stationary weights To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67534 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If you are bicycling fast enough you can cross a wooden plank spanning ditch before the plank breaks. Normally we say this is because it takes time for the plank to deform and break when subjected to a weight. However, consider for a moment an alternative and naive(?) explanation: it because you weigh less when you are moving than when you are stationary. The idea is your motion reduces your gravitational mass ( independently of your inertial mass) while gravitational acceleration remains unchanged. While this theory is probably wrong, it would be easy to test in practice. See my 40k pdf file for an illustration of the theory. http://web.ncf.ca/eo200/dynamics/testing_weight.pdf Another test would be to take a bathroom scale on a plane or a train and weigh oneself. Has anyone done this by chance? Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 12 09:52:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3CGqYkg004401; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 09:52:34 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3CGqW4X004379; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 09:52:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 09:52:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=tpnO1jxFZvsfD/fzzcX7cz0McsTBjYDuNwWFd/k+ZpAo48pkSohcw/HPctHGPaq4; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064312165221710@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: RE: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:52:21 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9400291a92e96db23f10640c587dc4a65f1350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.120.167 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67535 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Keith wrote: > > Hi Michel, > > Actually, Fred has some difficulties that make it hard for > him to do experiments ( much like the space shuttle, he > runs on LOX ). > Yep, about 130 pounds/week as 4 liter/minute O2 gas at this 5,456 ft altitude since Nov 2,000 except on the rare days that a heavy rainfall scrubs out the water-soluble air pollutants, until it dries out and they re-evaporate. Too many smokes for too long and breathing the lead and solder flux from a lot of cable-connector fabrication in the late 50s Cold War era. Non-emphysema COPD. > > Back in the day, several of us did implement > some of Freds ideas, most notably Frank Stenger. Frank > did the TV experiment for Fred, although you might not > have gathered that from the posting. > Frank got a free 12 volt portable TV and a lot of hands -on TV technology experience out of the deal. But the seeds of the Electronium (*e-) possible existence have been planted with the folks looking at the "Positronium Negative Ion" and the "strange" three-photon emission of positron-electron annihilation along with Sandia's anomalous 170 KeV (2 million.degree) Z-pinch gammas. > > All that despite > Fred not having received a Nobel prize, which shows > I suppose that we must have been guilty as charged > by FreeEnergy@yahoogroups, or perhaps we don't need > to "believe" in something to try it... > Beats believing in a theory and not doing anything about it. > > Speaking of Frank Stenger, he did a few experiments based on > Fred's hypocharge speculations, > Wrong Keith. That experiment conducted by Frank for sweat equity in a few $K in the fall of 2001 was a pulsed current loop experiment which predated the "Hypocharge" theory by 4 years. Which is along the lines of High E Field/Charge-Density using Vacuum Spherical or Cylindrical Capacitors which by a happy coincidence falls in line with Hal Puthoff's Polarizable Vacuum (PV) Theory. > > How about posting some of Franks experimental results??? > Frank did a video in late 2001, that got wiped out by my inquisitive grandson who never could figure out how Frank ate so fast, when Frank would announce on the tape that he was "breaking for lunch", and two seconds later would say "I'm back Fred". ..... Fred > > K. > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 12 09:54:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3CGrjsk005297; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 09:53:45 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3CGrgiv005269; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 09:53:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 09:53:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=oxoPlGpyIuPLugRB/Z6oydIOaEpsu9Tq3KmtpsiUOzDedLbShK01Aocf1w6i/LffNmwHf6DihI9iSRxgtpHjpCwDHZ+0+pbKOLO64lZVUtyHd9xhjB730dTnaUF4dXbnS+fdghezscF10AjtMzgXSG8qJzuIgItdK9S/zh/fcL4= Message-ID: Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 09:53:39 -0700 From: "leaking pen" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: moving vs stationary weights In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_10369_23263732.1144860819717" References: Resent-Message-ID: <8kwsLB.A.OSB.WCTPEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67536 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_Part_10369_23263732.1144860819717 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline actually, its opposite. its been shown that as velocity increases, the objects mass increases as well. On 4/12/06, Harry Veeder wrote: > > If you are bicycling fast enough you can cross a wooden plank spanning > ditch > before the plank breaks. > > Normally we say this is because it takes time for the plank to deform and > break when subjected to a weight. > > However, consider for a moment an alternative and naive(?) explanation: i= t > because you weigh less when you are moving than when you are stationary. > The > idea is your motion reduces your gravitational mass ( independently of > your > inertial mass) while gravitational acceleration remains unchanged. > > While this theory is probably wrong, it would be easy to test in practice= . > See my 40k pdf file for an illustration of the theory. > > http://web.ncf.ca/eo200/dynamics/testing_weight.pdf > > Another test would be to take a bathroom scale on a plane or a train and > weigh oneself. Has anyone done this by chance? > > Harry > > -- "Monsieur l'abb=E9, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to ma= ke it possible for you to continue to write" Voltaire ------=_Part_10369_23263732.1144860819717 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline actually, its opposite.  its been shown that as velocity increases, th= e objects mass increases as well. 

On 4/12/06, = Harry Veeder <eo200@fre= enet.carleton.ca> wrote:
If you are bicycling fast enough= you can cross a wooden plank spanning ditch
before the plank breaks.
Normally we say this is because it takes time for the plank to deform a= nd
break when subjected to a weight.

However, consider for a mome= nt an alternative and naive(?) explanation: it
because you weigh less wh= en you are moving than when you are stationary. The
idea is your motion reduces your gravitational mass ( independently of = your
inertial mass) while gravitational acceleration remains unchanged.<= br>
While this theory is probably wrong, it would be easy to test in pra= ctice.
See my 40k pdf file for an illustration of the theory.

http://web.ncf.ca/= eo200/dynamics/testing_weight.pdf

Another test would be to take = a bathroom scale on a plane or a train and
weigh oneself. Has anyone done this by chance?

Harry




--
"Monsieur l'abb=E9, I = detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you= to continue to write"  Voltaire=20 ------=_Part_10369_23263732.1144860819717-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 12 10:02:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3CH2Zc5010373; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:02:36 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3CH2Vr8010336; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:02:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:02:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 13:00:59 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: moving vs stationary weights In-reply-to: To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_WbqkkTmgGA6WWQlW916LDg)" User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67537 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --Boundary_(ID_WbqkkTmgGA6WWQlW916LDg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Those tests focus on inertial mass instead of gravitational mass. Harry leaking pen wrote: actually, its opposite. its been shown that as velocity increases, the objects mass increases as well. On 4/12/06, Harry Veeder wrote: If you are bicycling fast enough you can cross a wooden plank spanning ditch before the plank breaks. Normally we say this is because it takes time for the plank to deform and break when subjected to a weight. However, consider for a moment an alternative and naive(?) explanation: it because you weigh less when you are moving than when you are stationary. The idea is your motion reduces your gravitational mass ( independently of your inertial mass) while gravitational acceleration remains unchanged. While this theory is probably wrong, it would be easy to test in practice. See my 40k pdf file for an illustration of the theory. http://web.ncf.ca/eo200/dynamics/testing_weight.pdf Another test would be to take a bathroom scale on a plane or a train and weigh oneself. Has anyone done this by chance? Harry --Boundary_(ID_WbqkkTmgGA6WWQlW916LDg) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Re: moving vs stationary weights Those tests focus on inertial mass instead of gravitational mass.

Harry

leaking pen wrote:

actually, its opposite.  its been shown that as velocity increases, the objects mass increases as well.  

On 4/12/06, Harry Veeder <eo200@freenet.carleton.ca> wrote:
If you are bicycling fast enough you can cross a wooden plank spanning ditch
before the plank breaks.

Normally we say this is because it takes time for the plank to deform and
break when subjected to a weight.

However, consider for a moment an alternative and naive(?) explanation: it
because you weigh less when you are moving than when you are stationary. The
idea is your motion reduces your gravitational mass ( independently of your
inertial mass) while gravitational acceleration remains unchanged.

While this theory is probably wrong, it would be easy to test in practice.
See my 40k pdf file for an illustration of the theory.

http://web.ncf.ca/eo200/dynamics/testing_weight.pdf

Another test would be to take a bathroom scale on a plane or a train and
weigh oneself. Has anyone done this by chance?

Harry




--Boundary_(ID_WbqkkTmgGA6WWQlW916LDg)-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 12 10:38:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3CHbtGS026846; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:37:55 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3CHbrul026825; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:37:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:37:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=e2Cd2O2gmPZvL8TG2oBlo2Zaq65M/rYKOGqhFpRG0Qh1ofVPmlo27+x23BlWiX1SnI2zbUA6FwTQbdjRWZ/eXDZ9MKqukJssoXJCV4igZAYJ5TuImOMwtwNz2LDcUqh2bRnJIcnvIfqG8Nllus+aR6B+KO69DjHg826X4+PqgyY= Message-ID: Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:37:51 -0700 From: "leaking pen" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: moving vs stationary weights In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_11338_25735083.1144863471964" References: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67538 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_Part_11338_25735083.1144863471964 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline actually, there have been tests done showing theres no difference between the two. a steel ball deflection test in which they measured the change in deflection from a large aircraft passing over at different speeds. sr71, i believe, at the same time as they did the atomic clock testing, showing the change in time at higher speeds. On 4/12/06, Harry Veeder wrote: > > Those tests focus on inertial mass instead of gravitational mass. > > > Harry > > > leaking pen wrote: > > actually, its opposite. its been shown that as velocity increases, the > objects mass increases as well. > > On 4/12/06, *Harry Veeder* wrote: > > If you are bicycling fast enough you can cross a wooden plank spanning > ditch > before the plank breaks. > > Normally we say this is because it takes time for the plank to deform and > break when subjected to a weight. > > However, consider for a moment an alternative and naive(?) explanation: i= t > because you weigh less when you are moving than when you are stationary. > The > idea is your motion reduces your gravitational mass ( independently of > your > inertial mass) while gravitational acceleration remains unchanged. > > While this theory is probably wrong, it would be easy to test in practice= . > > See my 40k pdf file for an illustration of the theory. > > http://web.ncf.ca/eo200/dynamics/testing_weight.pdf > > Another test would be to take a bathroom scale on a plane or a train and > weigh oneself. Has anyone done this by chance? > > Harry > > > > > -- "Monsieur l'abb=E9, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to ma= ke it possible for you to continue to write" Voltaire ------=_Part_11338_25735083.1144863471964 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline actually, there have been tests done showing theres no difference between t= he two.  a steel ball deflection test in which they measured the chang= e in deflection from a large aircraft passing over at different speeds.&nbs= p; sr71, i believe, at the same time as they did the atomic clock testing, = showing the change in time at higher speeds.=20

On 4/12/06, = Harry Veeder <eo200@fre= enet.carleton.ca> wrote:
Those tests focus on inertial mass instead of= gravitational mass.
 

Harry


leaking pen wrote:

actually, its opposite.  its been shown that as velocity i= ncreases, the objects mass increases as well.  

On 4/12/06, = Harry Veeder < eo200@freenet.carleton.ca> wrote:
If you are bicycling fast enough you can cross a wooden plank s= panning ditch
before the plank breaks.

Normally we say this is be= cause it takes time for the plank to deform and
break when subjected to = a weight.

However, consider for a moment an alternative and naive(?) explanat= ion: it
because you weigh less when you are moving than when you are sta= tionary. The
idea is your motion reduces your gravitational mass ( inde= pendently of your
inertial mass) while gravitational acceleration remains unchanged.
<= br>While this theory is probably wrong, it would be easy to test in practic= e.
See my 40k pdf file for an illustration of the theory.

http://web.ncf.ca/eo200/dynamics/testing_weight.pdf

Another test= would be to take a bathroom scale on a plane or a train and
weigh ones= elf. Has anyone done this by chance?

Harry






=
--
"Monsieur l'abb=E9, I detest what you write, but I would gi= ve my life to make it possible for you to continue to write" &nbs= p;Voltaire=20 ------=_Part_11338_25735083.1144863471964-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 12 10:52:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3CHppkw000696; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:51:52 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3CHppru000690; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:51:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:51:51 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: moving vs stationary weights Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:51:48 -0500 Message-ID: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B9AC9CF@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: moving vs stationary weights Thread-Index: AcZeTnpUiG8RaLiYSjKhBhDvMHpVbwACwcfA From: "Zell, Chris" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Apr 2006 17:51:49.0350 (UTC) FILETIME=[C5FE1060:01C65E59] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3CHpnM7000669 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67539 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I believe you should check out Kozyrev ( sp?) on this subject. He claimed that motion could change mass ( at non relativistic speeds). Rex research might have one or more of his papers. -----Original Message----- From: Harry Veeder [mailto:eo200@freenet.carleton.ca] Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 1:26 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: moving vs stationary weights If you are bicycling fast enough you can cross a wooden plank spanning ditch before the plank breaks. Normally we say this is because it takes time for the plank to deform and break when subjected to a weight. However, consider for a moment an alternative and naive(?) explanation: it because you weigh less when you are moving than when you are stationary. The idea is your motion reduces your gravitational mass ( independently of your inertial mass) while gravitational acceleration remains unchanged. While this theory is probably wrong, it would be easy to test in practice. See my 40k pdf file for an illustration of the theory. http://web.ncf.ca/eo200/dynamics/testing_weight.pdf Another test would be to take a bathroom scale on a plane or a train and weigh oneself. Has anyone done this by chance? Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 12 11:02:14 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3CI1a7N004979; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:01:38 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3CI1SK0004934; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:01:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:01:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:01:31 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: moving vs stationary weights In-reply-to: To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_4ixrdunskrzbhlbR5nqkpg)" User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67540 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --Boundary_(ID_4ixrdunskrzbhlbR5nqkpg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT This test is not like those tests. Harry leaking pen wrote: actually, there have been tests done showing theres no difference between the two. a steel ball deflection test in which they measured the change in deflection from a large aircraft passing over at different speeds. sr71, i believe, at the same time as they did the atomic clock testing, showing the change in time at higher speeds. On 4/12/06, Harry Veeder wrote: Those tests focus on inertial mass instead of gravitational mass. Harry leaking pen wrote: actually, its opposite. its been shown that as velocity increases, the objects mass increases as well. On 4/12/06, Harry Veeder < eo200@freenet.carleton.ca > wrote: If you are bicycling fast enough you can cross a wooden plank spanning ditch before the plank breaks. Normally we say this is because it takes time for the plank to deform and break when subjected to a weight. However, consider for a moment an alternative and naive(?) explanation: it because you weigh less when you are moving than when you are stationary. The idea is your motion reduces your gravitational mass ( independently of your inertial mass) while gravitational acceleration remains unchanged. While this theory is probably wrong, it would be easy to test in practice. See my 40k pdf file for an illustration of the theory. http://web.ncf.ca/eo200/dynamics/testing_weight.pdf Another test would be to take a bathroom scale on a plane or a train and weigh oneself. Has anyone done this by chance? Harry --Boundary_(ID_4ixrdunskrzbhlbR5nqkpg) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Re: moving vs stationary weights This test is not like those tests.

Harry

leaking pen wrote:

actually, there have been tests done showing theres no difference between the two.  a steel ball deflection test in which they measured the change in deflection from a large aircraft passing over at different speeds.  sr71, i believe, at the same time as they did the atomic clock testing, showing the change in time at higher speeds.

On 4/12/06, Harry Veeder <eo200@freenet.carleton.ca> wrote:
Those tests focus on inertial mass instead of gravitational mass.


Harry


leaking pen wrote:

actually, its opposite.  its been shown that as velocity increases, the objects mass increases as well.  

On 4/12/06, Harry Veeder < eo200@freenet.carleton.ca <mailto:eo200@freenet.carleton.ca> > wrote:
If you are bicycling fast enough you can cross a wooden plank spanning ditch
before the plank breaks.

Normally we say this is because it takes time for the plank to deform and
break when subjected to a weight.

However, consider for a moment an alternative and naive(?) explanation: it
because you weigh less when you are moving than when you are stationary. The
idea is your motion reduces your gravitational mass ( independently of your
inertial mass) while gravitational acceleration remains unchanged.

While this theory is probably wrong, it would be easy to test in practice.
See my 40k pdf file for an illustration of the theory.

http://web.ncf.ca/eo200/dynamics/testing_weight.pdf

Another test would be to take a bathroom scale on a plane or a train and
weigh oneself. Has anyone done this by chance?

Harry







--Boundary_(ID_4ixrdunskrzbhlbR5nqkpg)-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 12 11:33:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3CIXQBW022522; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:33:26 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3CIXPOD022500; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:33:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:33:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:33:26 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Paper by Kozyrev In-reply-to: To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67541 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.univer.omsk.su/omsk/Sci/Kozyrev/paper1a.txt POSSIBILITY OF EXPERIMENTAL STUDY OF PROPERTIES OF TIME [Unpublished article by N. A. Kozyrev: English title as above; Pulkovo, "O VOZMOZHNOSTI EKSPERIMENTAL'NGO ISSLEDOVANIYA SVOYSTV VREMENI", Russian, September 1967, pp 1-49] Part 1. Theoretical Concepts Time is the most important and most enigmatic property of nature. The concept of time surpasses our imagination. The recondite attempts to understand the nature of time by the philosophers of antiquity, the scholars in the Middle Ages, and the modern scientist, possesing a knowledge of sciences and the experience of their history, have proven fruitless. Probably this occurs because time involves the most profound and completely unknown properties of the world which can scarcely bne envisaged by the bravest flight of human fancy. Past these properties of the world there passes the thiumphal procession of modern science and technical progress. In reality, the exact sciences negate the existence in time of any other qualities other than the simplest quality of "duration" or time intervals, the measurement of which is realized in hours. This quality of time is similar to the spatial interval. The theory of relativity by Einstein made this analogy more profound, considering time intervals and space as compo- nents of a four-dimensional interval of a Minkowski universe. Only the pseudo-Euclidian nature of the geometry of the Minkowski universe differentiates the time interval from the space interval. Under such a conception, time is scalar ( scalar = weight ) and quite passive. It only supplements the spatial arena, against which the events of the universe are played out. Owing to one scalarity of time, in the equations of theoretical mechanics the future is not separated from the past; hence the causes are not separated from the results. In the result, classical mechanics brings to the universe a strictly deterministic, but deprived, causality. At the same time, causality comprises the most important quality of the real world. The concept of causality is the basis of natural science. The natural scientist is convinced that the question "why?" is a legitimate one, that a question can be found for it. However, the content of the exact sciences is much more impoverished. In the precise sciences, the legitimate question is only "how?". i.e., in what manner a given chain of occurrences takes place. Therefore, the precise sciences are descriptive. The description is made in a four-dimensional world, which signifies the possibility of predicting events. This possibility prediction is the key to the power of the precise sciences. The fascination of this power is so great that it often compels one to forget the basic, incomplete nature of their basis. It is therefore probable that the philosophical concept of Mach, derived strictly logically from the bases of the exact sciences, attracted great attention, in spite of its nonconformity to our knowlege concerning the universe and daily experience. The natural desire arises to introduce into the exact sciences the principles of natural sciences. In other words, the tendency is to attempt to introduce into theoretical mechanics the principle of causality and directivity of time. Such a mechanics can be called "causal" or "asymetrical" mechanics. In such mechanics, there should be be realizable experience, indicating where the cause is and where the result is. It can be demonstrated that in statistical mechanics there is a directivity of time and that it satisfies our desires. In reality, statistical mechanics constructs a certain bridge between natural and theoretical mechanics. In the statistical grouping, an asymmetrical state in time can develop, owing to unlikely initial conditions caused by the intervention of a proponent of the system, the effect of which is causal. If, subsequently, the system will be isolated, in conformity with the second law of thermodynamics, its entropy will increase, and the directivity of time will be associated with this trend in the variation of entropy. As a result, the system will lead to the most likely condition; it will prove to be in equilibrium, but then the fluctuations in the entropy of vaious signs will be encountered with equal frequency. Therefore, even in the statistical mechanics of an isol- ated system, under the most probable condition, the directivity of time will not exist. It is quite natural that in statistical mechanics, based on the conventional mechanics of a point , the direction of time does not appear as a quality of time itself but originates only as a property of the state of the system. If the directivity of time and other possible qualities are objective, they should enter the system of elementary mechanics of isolated processes. However, the statistical generalization of such mechanics can lead to a conclusion concerning the unattainability of equilibrium conditions. In reality, the directivity of time signifies a pattern continuously existing in time, which, acting upon the material system, can cause it to transfer to an equilibrium state. Under such a consideration, the events should occur not only in time, as in a certain arens, but also with the aid of time. Time becomes an active participant in the universe, eliminating the possibility of thermal death. Then, we can understand harmony of life and death, which we perceive as the essence of our world. Already, owing to these possibilities alone, one should carefully examine the question as to the manner in which the concept of the directivity of time or its pattern can be introduced into the mechanics of elementary processes... http://www.univer.omsk.su/omsk/Sci/Kozyrev/paper1a.txt From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 12 11:51:34 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3CIp23J001629; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:51:03 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3CIowvi001583; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:50:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:50:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <030201c65e62$0905aa50$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-220064312165221710@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 20:50:28 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67542 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ok I understand your allusion to "thought experiments" Fred (thanks Keith). Your theories and the experiments you design to test them seem fun in any case, and I quite understand people performing them for their own enlightenment and to possibly participate in a major scientific breakthrough, that's the way science should be done. I am still curious about how one can measure gravitational pull (or push) on electrons with a fieldless tube :) Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 6:52 PM Subject: RE: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons > Keith wrote: >> >> Hi Michel, >> >> Actually, Fred has some difficulties that make it hard for >> him to do experiments ( much like the space shuttle, he >> runs on LOX ). >> > Yep, about 130 pounds/week as 4 liter/minute O2 gas at this 5,456 ft > altitude > since Nov 2,000 except on the rare days that a heavy rainfall scrubs out > the water-soluble air pollutants, until it dries out and they > re-evaporate. Too many smokes for too long > and breathing the lead and solder flux from a lot of cable-connector > fabrication in the late 50s Cold War era. Non-emphysema COPD. >> >> Back in the day, several of us did implement >> some of Freds ideas, most notably Frank Stenger. Frank >> did the TV experiment for Fred, although you might not >> have gathered that from the posting. >> > Frank got a free 12 volt portable TV and a lot of hands -on TV technology > experience out of the deal. But the seeds of the Electronium (*e-) > possible > existence have been planted with the folks looking at the "Positronium > Negative > Ion" and the "strange" three-photon emission of positron-electron > annihilation > along with Sandia's anomalous 170 KeV (2 million.degree) Z-pinch gammas. >> >> All that despite >> Fred not having received a Nobel prize, which shows >> I suppose that we must have been guilty as charged >> by FreeEnergy@yahoogroups, or perhaps we don't need >> to "believe" in something to try it... >> > Beats believing in a theory and not doing anything about it. >> >> Speaking of Frank Stenger, he did a few experiments based on >> Fred's hypocharge speculations, >> > Wrong Keith. That experiment conducted by Frank for sweat equity in a few > $K > in the fall of 2001 was a pulsed current loop experiment which predated > the "Hypocharge" > theory by 4 years. Which is along the lines of High E Field/Charge-Density > using Vacuum Spherical or Cylindrical Capacitors which by a happy > coincidence > falls in line with Hal Puthoff's Polarizable Vacuum (PV) Theory. >> >> How about posting some of Franks experimental results??? >> > Frank did a video in late 2001, that got wiped out by my inquisitive > grandson > who never could figure out how Frank ate so fast, when Frank would > announce > on the tape that he was "breaking for lunch", and two seconds later would > say > "I'm back Fred". ..... > > Fred >> >> K. >> > > > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 12 12:31:56 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3CJVcAp020733; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:31:39 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3CJVbMf020714; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:31:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:31:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:31:46 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: moving vs stationary weights In-reply-to: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50B9AC9CF@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: <0qw3tD.A.gDF.YWVPEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67543 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Zell, Chris wrote: > I believe you should check out Kozyrev ( sp?) on this subject. He > claimed that motion could change mass ( at non relativistic speeds). > Rex research might have one or more of his papers. Ok thanks for the suggestion. Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 12 14:38:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3CLchbm010581; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:38:43 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3CLcah3010533; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:38:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:38:36 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060412173824.03eb0710@mindspring.com> Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060412173338.03c984a8@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:38:29 -0400 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Photos of Seebeck calorimeters Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67544 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here are some photos from Edmund Storms showing Seebeck calorimeters: http://lenr-canr.org/Experiments.htm#SeebeckCalorimeters Note the third and fourth pictures that say "Click for a larger image." Click on these to see high-resolution versions, 2280 by 1712 pixels. (Right-click to save the images to your disk, or any image at LENR-CANR.) Note also the two papers that describe the calorimeters in detail. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 13 01:39:54 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3D8dj1t028023; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 01:39:45 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3D8dcen027990; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 01:39:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 01:39:38 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060413083934817.C7AC57400086@mwinf3208.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060413083935.00a0530c@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 09:39:35 +0100 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: moving vs stationary weights Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67545 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:26 pm 12/04/2006 -0500, Harry wrote: > If you are bicycling fast enough you can cross a > wooden plank spanning ditch before the plank breaks. > > Normally we say this is because it takes time for the > plank to deform and >break when subjected to a weight. > > However, consider for a moment an alternative and > naive(?) explanation: it is because you weigh less > when you are moving than when you are stationary. > The idea is your motion reduces your gravitational > mass independently of your inertial mass while > gravitational acceleration remains unchanged. When I first read this post I was tempted to take what one might call the Dr Pork approach and dismiss it without thinking. That would have been a mistake because on reflection I can see that such quosi modo (Introit - not Victor Hugo) questions force one to think about the fundamentals of mechanics. We can start off by imagining the plank has a slight slope down towards the other side of the ditch. In this case the bike need not touch the plank at all and is effectively weightless as it crosses the ditch. You can take the plank away and the bike will arrive safely on the other side. Similarly, a cop pursuing a robber can defy the "Law of Gravity" by flinging himself across the gap between a high building and a slightly lower one without dashing himself to pieces in the alley below. The problem with Gravity is that most laymen think of it as a Force. And the problem with the layman's notion of Force is that it is a static concept which does not involve time. The gap between the building is a kingdom in which King Force's rule is absolute. Enter it, and SPLOSH - you are raspberry jam on the pavement below. One instant you are at the top of the building and the next you are mangled on the ground. It's a discrete change - one might even describe the attempt to cross the forbidden zone a quantum leap from life to death. It is reminiscent of the way that an electron jumps from one level to another. Where is the electron in between? It isn't anywhere (allegedly). What is the time interval between it leaving one level and arriving at the other. There isn't any interval (allegedly). But then quantum physics was always more the playground of physicists who preferred maths to engineering. If you want to understand the way gravity works you want to forget about Force altogether. You want to erase the word from your vocabulary. You want to think about motion - and motion involves time. Quod non agit, non existit as Leibniz observed. What kind of motion? The # raindrops keep falling on my head # kind. although since gravity raindrops are rather faster than the watery kind, perhaps a hail of bullets being fired from the robber's accomplices in a 'copter provides a more realistic image. If the cop leaps across the gap fast enough he can evade the bullets save for a flesh wound or two but if he dallies too long he will finish up a cheese grater. Now the motion which really interests us is not the motion of the bullets but the motion of the bike/cop as it/he traverses the gap. This is a motion nested within a motion - a velocity of a velocity - and this immediately raises a problem because we are using the same words at two different levels which causes confusion in any hierarchical system. If you call both the headmaster and his assistant, headmaster, then you are not going to know when you are talking to the decision maker. A workable hierarchical system needs to have very distinctive names for each level of command otherwise there is chaos. One system where chaos is anathema is the Army. In the army you have a plethora of distinctive names and badges so that everyone knows exactly who they are talking to and what authority the person wields. Private, Corporal, Sergeant, Lieutenant, Captain, Major, Colonel, Brigadier, General - to name but the single barrelled ranks. One knows exactly who one is dealing with in the army. In case anyone thinks, "Ah! we have a name for the second order velocity. We have acceleration." Now we haven't! Acceleration is the portmanteau term which includes both velocities - just as "squad" might include both the private ("...a velocity") and his corporal ("the velocity of..."). Likewise, jerk is a portmanteau word equivalent to company, say; jounce is a portmanteau word equivalent to regiment - and so on. The trouble with portmanteaus it that they get increasingly complicated and difficult to understand. This is because they fail to shift their datum which is at the level of private in the case of the army and distance/time in the case of dynamics. So, you can see that, in a sense, Harry is right. You do weigh less when you are moving than when you are stationary. In effect you have been promoted from Private to Lance-Corporal 8-) Cheers, Frank From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 13 05:34:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3DCYLlk011705; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 05:34:22 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3DCYI7U011666; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 05:34:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 05:34:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=rehk0iIz6kWnDPcNx6q9tZR66N//Ymo6TRR85vxzrYCwxIutnmPTXdKicP/YK1Q4; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064413123356890@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 06:33:56 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9404d9453de8d0cf135d5b99f8a2d6d293b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.106 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67546 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Michel wrote: > > I am still curious about how one can measure gravitational pull (or push) > on electrons with a fieldless tube :) > Electrically fieldless, but not gravity fieldless, Michel. If electrons are released at the bottom and gravity repels them upward, I think a Faraday Cup can be used to detect them. In the meantime. The gravitational force on a 1 kg mass at the earth's surface is G * Me * 1/R^2 = 6.67e-11 * 5.98e24 * 1/R^2 = 9.8 newtons OTOH, The red-shift is GM/[R*c^2] But M/c^= Energy = 9e16 joule/kg Thus in terms of energy E, G' = 8.23e-45 Thus for the force F on a 1.0 kg mass at the earth's surface: F = 8.23e-45 * 5.98e24 * 9e16 * 1.0 * 9e16/6.38e6^2 = 9.8 newtons But, according to red-shift G is based on 1/R So F = 8.23e-45 * 5.98e24 * 9e16 * 1.0 * 9e16/6.38e6 = 6.25e7 newtons Thus 1/R Energy G = G' = 8.23e-45 * 6.38e6 = 5.253e-38 Hence the force F between the energy mc^2 of two 1.0 kg masses at 1.0 meter separation: F = 5.25e-38 * 9.0e16^2 = 4.255e-4 newtons And between the earth and 1.0 joule of (Localized Energy): F = 5.25e-38 * 5.98e24 * 9.0e16/6.38e6 = 4.43e-3 newtons Which is close to the values of Repulsion Electrogravity Force that Buehler obtained in his experiments. Also the 5.25e-38 number is close to the calculated 4.77e-38 coulomb "Hypocharge".. Bona fide Numerology? Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Michel wrote:
>
> I am still curious about how one can measure gravitational pull (or push) > on electrons with a fieldless tube :)
>
Electrically fieldless, but not gravity fieldless, Michel.
 
If electrons are released at the bottom and gravity repels them upward,
I think a Faraday Cup can be used to detect them.
 
In the meantime.
 
The gravitational force on a 1 kg mass at the earth's surface
is G * Me * 1/R^2 =  6.67e-11 * 5.98e24 * 1/R^2  = 9.8 newtons
 
OTOH, The red-shift is GM/[R*c^2]
 
But M/c^= Energy = 9e16 joule/kg
 
Thus in terms of energy E, G'  = 8.23e-45
 
Thus for the force  F on a 1.0 kg mass at the earth's surface:
 
F = 8.23e-45 * 5.98e24 * 9e16 * 1.0 * 9e16/6.38e6^2 = 9.8 newtons
 
But, according to red-shift  G  is based on 1/R
 
So F = 8.23e-45 * 5.98e24 * 9e16 * 1.0 * 9e16/6.38e6 = 6.25e7 newtons
 
Thus 1/R Energy G =  G' = 8.23e-45 * 6.38e6 = 5.253e-38
 
Hence the force F between the energy  mc^2 of two 1.0 kg masses
at 1.0 meter separation:
 
F = 5.25e-38 * 9.0e16^2  =  4.255e-4 newtons
 
And between the earth and 1.0 joule of (Localized Energy):
 
F = 5.25e-38 * 5.98e24 * 9.0e16/6.38e6 = 4.43e-3  newtons
 
Which is close to the values of  Repulsion Electrogravity Force
that Buehler obtained in his experiments.
 
Also  the 5.25e-38  number is close to the calculated
4.77e-38 coulomb "Hypocharge"..  
 
Bona fide Numerology?
 
Fred
 
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 13 05:41:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3DCetoX014976; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 05:40:55 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3DCerc2014957; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 05:40:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 05:40:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2006-03-10) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.6 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Message-ID: <001201c65ef7$776be2d0$0100007f@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: Re: moving vs stationary weights Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 07:39:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C65ECD.7690DE30" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Resent-Message-ID: <-ySoyD.A.opD.VbkPEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67547 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C65ECD.7690DE30 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000F_01C65ECD.7690DE30" ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C65ECD.7690DE30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankGrimer wrote.. >The problem with Gravity is that most laymen think=20 of it as a Force. And the problem with the layman's=20 notion of Force is that it is a static concept which=20 does not involve time. It is reminiscent of the way that an electron jumps=20 from one level to another. Where is the electron in=20 between? It isn't anywhere (allegedly). What is the=20 time interval between it leaving one level and=20 arriving at the other. There isn't any interval=20 (allegedly). But then quantum physics was always more=20 the playground of physicists who preferred maths to=20 engineering. Howdy Frank.. Back as a kid, I showed off to the girls how to bicycle over a " = see-saw". Go up the plank slightly past center and tip it down to coast = down. As is the case with daring doo.. another kid with a Harley showed = us all how it was done by the big boys. His momentum was sufficent to = travel near to the other end of the plank before the " evils of gravity" = demonstrated there are not to be sullied by smart aleck quantum geeks = and the kid came crashing down some distance past the seesaw much to the = horror of the girls and amusement of the boys. The boys that later grew up to be engineers held a retrospective view of = the event, entirely different from the boys that grew up to be = physicists. The majority, however, could care less as long as the girls = were pretty. Whne viewing a water vortex, the inner spiral appears to be moving in a = reverse direction from the outer whereas the outer is also rising as the = inner is dropping. One needs to study the shape of a chambered Nautilus = to grasp the profound effect that gravity and electrons play while we = are asleep. Perhaps the DNA double helix would be better understood by = considering the Nautilus shell in the southern hemispheres have an = opposite spiral rotation from the northern. Once saw a depiction of the = spiral shell dimensionally scaled to planetary positions and musical = scales to show they "overlay" the shape of the shell. Even us "statics" = must live in a dynamic universe full of energy and non stop change. A figment of my imagination also attempts to " see" 4 times the number = of "colors" and " music notes" than we perceive. Bach obviously saw or = heard something he never shared with others.. Stay off high buildings unless you have a Batman cape. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C65ECD.7690DE30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Grimer wrote..

>The problem with Gravity is that most laymen think
of it as a = Force.=20 And the problem with the layman's
notion of Force is that it is a = static=20 concept which
does not involve time.

It is reminiscent of the way that an electron jumps
from one = level to=20 another. Where is the electron in
between?  It isn't anywhere=20 (allegedly). What is the
time interval between it leaving one level = and=20
arriving at the other. There isn't any interval
(allegedly). But = then=20 quantum physics was always more
the playground of physicists who = preferred=20 maths to
engineering. <g>

Howdy Frank..

Back as a kid, I showed off to the girls how to = bicycle over a=20 " see-saw". Go up the plank slightly past center and tip it down to = coast down.=20 As is the case with daring doo.. another kid with a Harley showed us all = how it=20 was done by the big boys. His momentum was sufficent to travel near to = the other=20 end of the plank before the " evils of gravity" demonstrated there are = not to=20 be sullied by smart aleck quantum geeks and the kid came = crashing down=20 some distance past the seesaw much to the horror of the girls and = amusement of=20 the boys.

The boys that later grew up to be engineers held a retrospective view = of the=20 event, entirely different from the boys that grew up to be physicists. = The=20 majority, however, could care less as long as the girls were pretty.

Whne viewing a water vortex, the inner  spiral appears to = be moving=20 in a reverse direction from the outer whereas the outer is also rising = as the=20 inner is dropping. One needs to study the shape of a chambered Nautilus = to grasp=20 the profound effect that gravity and electrons play while we are asleep. = Perhaps=20 the DNA double helix would be better understood by considering the = Nautilus=20 shell in the southern hemispheres have an opposite spiral rotation from = the=20 northern. Once saw a depiction of the spiral shell dimensionally scaled = to=20 planetary positions and musical scales to show they "overlay" the shape = of the=20 shell. Even us "statics" must live in a dynamic universe full of energy = and non=20 stop change.

A figment of my imagination also attempts to " see" 4 times the = number of=20 "colors" and " music notes" than we perceive. Bach obviously saw or = heard=20 something he never shared with others..

Stay off high buildings unless you have a Batman cape.

Richard

 

------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C65ECD.7690DE30-- ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C65ECD.7690DE30 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000d01c65ef7$5f4fdbc0$0100007f@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C65ECD.7690DE30-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 13 06:55:41 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3DDtVBV007961; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 06:55:31 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3DDtUsW007948; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 06:55:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 06:55:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <001901c65f01$ed817c50$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: "vortex-l" References: <410-220064413123356890@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 15:55:30 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67548 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 2:33 PM >> I am still curious about how one can measure gravitational pull (or push) >> > on electrons with a fieldless tube :) >> > Electrically fieldless, but not gravity fieldless, Michel. That's what I had understood Fred, besides if it was gravity fieldless we would already have discovered antigravity and there would be nothing to test with this tube :) > If electrons are released at the bottom and gravity repels them upward, > I think a Faraday Cup can be used to detect them. I'll probably make a fool of myself but what's a Faraday cup, and how would you produce the slow electrons? Best wishes Michel > > In the meantime. > > The gravitational force on a 1 kg mass at the earth's surface > is G * Me * 1/R^2 = 6.67e-11 * 5.98e24 * 1/R^2 = 9.8 newtons > > OTOH, The red-shift is GM/[R*c^2] > > But M/c^= Energy = 9e16 joule/kg > > Thus in terms of energy E, G' = 8.23e-45 > > Thus for the force F on a 1.0 kg mass at the earth's surface: > > F = 8.23e-45 * 5.98e24 * 9e16 * 1.0 * 9e16/6.38e6^2 = 9.8 newtons > > But, according to red-shift G is based on 1/R > > So F = 8.23e-45 * 5.98e24 * 9e16 * 1.0 * 9e16/6.38e6 = 6.25e7 newtons > > Thus 1/R Energy G = G' = 8.23e-45 * 6.38e6 = 5.253e-38 > > Hence the force F between the energy mc^2 of two 1.0 kg masses > at 1.0 meter separation: > > F = 5.25e-38 * 9.0e16^2 = 4.255e-4 newtons > > And between the earth and 1.0 joule of (Localized Energy): > > F = 5.25e-38 * 5.98e24 * 9.0e16/6.38e6 = 4.43e-3 newtons > > Which is close to the values of Repulsion Electrogravity Force > that Buehler obtained in his experiments. > > Also the 5.25e-38 number is close to the calculated > 4.77e-38 coulomb "Hypocharge".. > > Bona fide Numerology? > > Fred From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 13 08:15:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3DFFStM010932; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 08:15:28 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3DFFOQ3010890; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 08:15:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 08:15:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=DHI9LnqKIP/eScux6M8ktjzYx8tzXJxRx8nXKht/0gts3hEcafZPBUQ9jSW3ph8h; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064413151452348@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 09:14:52 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9402082fa099f3e47edc5bc7871f8ee1a79350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.165.56 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67549 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michel Jullian wrote: > > From: "Frederick Sparber" > Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 2:33 PM > > > Electrically fieldless, but not gravity fieldless, Michel. > > That's what I had understood Fred, besides if it was gravity fieldless we > would already have discovered antigravity and there would be nothing to test > with this tube :) > Precisely > > > If electrons are released at the bottom and gravity repels them upward, > > I think a Faraday Cup can be used to detect them. > > I'll probably make a fool of myself but what's a Faraday cup, and how would > you produce the slow electrons? > A Faraday cup is a match to a Faraday (flying?) saucer. Only kidding. I googled up this image. If the evacuated hollow tube has a heated filament (or photo-emissive device) in a can at the bottom with a hole in the top that allows an electron of nearly zero upward velocity (another faraday cup?) if the electrons repel gravity they should fall up with force F = ma where they are detected/timed by an electrometer tied into the faraday cup collector. http://home.earthlink.net/~chutko/ionmeas.htm " A Faraday cup consists of two coaxial isolated cylinders: grounded outer screening cylinder and inner collecting one (collector). It works like "black body" in optic – absorbs all particles which pass into collector and significantly decrease the output of secondary particles created due to interaction of primary particles with the surface of collector. The ratio of the input aperture diameter to the length of the collector should be not less than 1 : 5." > Fred > Best wishes > Michel > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 13 14:50:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3DLoLmJ028196; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 14:50:22 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3DLoK93028178; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 14:50:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 14:50:20 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 14:50:18 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l Subject: Re: Does A Voltage Alter The Ether? In-Reply-To: <410-220064211124227898@earthlink.net> Message-ID: References: <410-220064211124227898@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <0xGMe.A.O4G.besPEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67550 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 11 Apr 2006, Frederick Sparber wrote: > This primer implies that the ether will squish out, and require more > potential V to store more energy which will squish out more ether,and so on > if coefficient K keeps dropping ? :-) I don't know. Isn't the ether supposed to be fairly rigid? :) > > http://www1.gantep.edu.tr/~koc/EP331Lecture/emtlec7.pdf > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Frederick Sparber > To: vortex-l > Sent: 4/11/2006 5:47:04 AM > Subject: Re: Does A Voltage Alter The Ether? > > > A parallel-plate vacuum capacitor with Capacitance C = K*eo * Area/s > > stores an energy W = V^2 * K*eo*Area/2s newton-meters (or joules) (K = 1) > > with the plate to plate Force F = W/s newton-meter/meter = newton > > Does the field E = V/s change the value of K to more > or less than 1 (unity) ? > > IOW, does it create a low pressure "bubble" in the ether at > high energy densities between the plates? > > Detectable Index of refraction change? > > Thanks in Advance. > > Fred (((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 425-222-5066 unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 13 16:20:02 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3DNJr9T028413; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 16:19:53 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3DNJmZ5028375; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 16:19:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 16:19:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=l5wbP/9wnteyoqPnd2YS5LozrsVdJotR3cKcROHQaN0I7Qk5YFcC8qfEY4V9gzeV; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064413231930746@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Does A Voltage Alter The Ether? Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:19:30 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940e702e41ab1d05a4f7257102471b2d8a0350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.120.172 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67551 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bill Beaty writes: > > On Tue, 11 Apr 2006, Frederick Sparber wrote: > > > This primer implies that the ether will squish out, and require more > > potential V to store more energy which will squish out more ether,and so on > > if coefficient K keeps dropping ? :-) > > I don't know. Isn't the ether supposed to be fairly rigid? > > :) > According to this paper on the "Polarizable Vacuum (ether) by Hal Puthoff it's not as rigid as concrete. :-) http://www.earthtech.org/publications/PV_Found_of_Physics.pdf The physics lecture doesn't treat delta K * eo increase or decrease, but, Hal does. http://www1.gantep.edu.tr/~koc/EP331Lecture/emtlec7.pdf Fred > > > > http://www1.gantep.edu.tr/~koc/EP331Lecture/emtlec7.pdf > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Frederick Sparber > > To: vortex-l > > Sent: 4/11/2006 5:47:04 AM > > Subject: Re: Does A Voltage Alter The Ether? > > > > > > A parallel-plate vacuum capacitor with Capacitance C = K*eo * Area/s > > > > stores an energy W = V^2 * K*eo*Area/2s newton-meters (or joules) (K = 1) > > > > with the plate to plate Force F = W/s newton-meter/meter = newton > > > > Does the field E = V/s change the value of K to more > > or less than 1 (unity) ? > > > > IOW, does it create a low pressure "bubble" in the ether at > > high energy densities between the plates? > > > > Detectable Index of refraction change? > > > > Thanks in Advance. > > > > Fred > > (((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))) > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > billb at amasci com http://amasci.com > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair > Seattle, WA 425-222-5066 unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 13 16:53:06 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3DNqvgQ007068; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 16:52:57 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3DNqufW007045; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 16:52:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 16:52:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=euLA2sBR4l/yXoNQpyozlMRwPM3UEqoFj7e7xCnHr2WAqFR4AG1kdUzPdfZeS3WL; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006441323523662@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Does A Voltage Alter The Ether? Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:52:36 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94014de2b9fa9b7028102a81042242d3626350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.215 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67552 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If high voltage and energy density between capacitor plates "polarizes" the vacuum enough to create "wormholes": Why not? PRIME DIRECTIVE employed here? Fred http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/ParticleAndNuclear/tachyons.html "Tachyons" " There was a young lady named Bright, Whose speed was far faster than light. She went out one day, In a relative way, And returned the previous night!" -Reginald Buller Bill Beaty writes: > > > > On Tue, 11 Apr 2006, Frederick Sparber wrote: > > > > > This primer implies that the ether will squish out, and require more > > > potential V to store more energy which will squish out more ether,and > so on > > > if coefficient K keeps dropping ? :-) > > > > I don't know. Isn't the ether supposed to be fairly rigid? > > > > :) > > > According to this paper on the "Polarizable Vacuum (ether) by Hal Puthoff > it's not as rigid as concrete. :-) > > http://www.earthtech.org/publications/PV_Found_of_Physics.pdf > > The physics lecture doesn't treat delta K * eo increase or decrease, but, > Hal does. > > http://www1.gantep.edu.tr/~koc/EP331Lecture/emtlec7.pdf > > Fred > > > > (((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))) > > William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website > > billb at amasci com http://amasci.com > > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair > > Seattle, WA 425-222-5066 unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci > > > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 13 17:19:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3E0JBJN015824; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:19:12 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3E0J9Ti015804; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:19:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:19:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=N9DId3OIeqvxqd17lR0Np2ahrGeFYUC1sbjmua8An8G2OXF5gTZsJgnhQ4aj5lmj; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006451401847251@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Does A Voltage Alter The Ether? Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 18:18:47 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940bc1929548d9b7c6121e04b9c30a79f2a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.165.123 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67553 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: It's hard to stay ahead of Hal. All I did was ask him the question, and he promptly responded (with this). http://www.earthtech.org/publications/PV_Found_of_Physics.pdf http://www.earthtech.org/publications/index.html 2006 paper: http://www.earthtech.org/publications/davis_STAIF_conference_1.pdf > [Original Message] > From: Frederick Sparber > To: vortex-l > Date: 4/13/2006 5:52:23 PM > Subject: Re: Does A Voltage Alter The Ether? > > If high voltage and energy density between capacitor plates > "polarizes" the vacuum enough to create "wormholes": Why not? > > PRIME DIRECTIVE employed here? > > Fred > > http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/ParticleAndNuclear/tachyons.html > > "Tachyons" > > " There was a young lady named Bright, > Whose speed was far faster than light. > She went out one day, > In a relative way, > And returned the previous night!" > > -Reginald Buller > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 13 17:58:54 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3E0wi4I028916; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:58:44 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3E0wgo1028891; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:58:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:58:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=QIdzCq1wTl0EDuZip8iasGIapke9PeHigKpkei/nwsNhNfN022VBYAH3Bd71wTFl; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006451405826933@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Does A Voltage Alter The Ether? Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 18:58:26 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940af4cf0a3bb43c15ebe5f5e8af4fa81e4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.165.224 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67554 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here it is. > > [Original Message] > From: Frederick Sparber > To: vortex-l > Date: 4/13/2006 5:53:27 PM > Subject: Re: Does A Voltage Alter The Ether? > > If high voltage and energy density between capacitor plates > "polarizes" the vacuum enough to create "wormholes": Why not? > > On Tue, 11 Apr 2006, Frederick Sparber wrote: > >> This primer implies that the ether will squish out, and require more >> potential V to store more energy which will squish out more ether,and >> so on if coefficient K keeps dropping ? > E.W. Davis and Hal Puthoff say: http://www.earthtech.org/publications/davis_STAIF_conference_1.pdf "To squeeze, one acts on a (complex) state using a “squeeze operator,” S( ), for a single quantized harmonic oscillator: S( ) = exp[½( a2 *a†2)] (note: * signifies the complex conjugate of ). The state = rei determines the size of the squeezing, where r is the amplitude (giving a measure of the mean photon number in ) and is the phase of squeezing. The “squeezed vacuum” is therefore defined as: = S( ) vac . Calculating the uncertainties A and B with respect to the squeezed vacuum gives A = ½exp(r) and B = ½exp( r); therefore B is squeezed and A is stretched. Thus S( ) reduces the uncertainty in B and increases that in A while maintaining the minimized uncertainty product. The act of squeezing transforms the phase space circular noise profile characteristic of the vacuum into an ellipse, whose semimajor and semiminor axes are given by A and B, respectively. This applies to coherent states in general, and the usual vacuum is also a coherent state with eigenvalue zero. As this ellipse rotates about the origin with angular frequency , these unequal quadrature uncertainties manifest themselves in the oscillator energy by periodic occurrences, which are separated by one quarter cycle, of both smaller and larger fluctuations compared to the unsqueezed vacuum.? "If one squeezes the vacuum, i.e., if one puts vacuum rather than laser light into the input port of a squeezing device, then one gets at the output an electromagnetic field with weaker fluctuations and thus less energy density than the vacuum at locations where cos2 (t z/c) 1 and sin2 (t z/c) << 1; but with greater fluctuations and thus greater energy density than the vacuum at locations where cos2 (t z/c) << 1 and sin2 (t z/c) 1 (Caves, 1981; Morris and Thorne, 1988). Since the vacuum is defined to have vanishing energy density, any region with less energy density than the vacuum actually has a negative (renormalized) expectation value for the energy density. Therefore, a squeezed vacuum state consists of a traveling electromagnetic wave that oscillates back and forth between negative energy density and positive energy density, but has positive time-averaged energy density." In the words of Festus Hagan, "Don't you see"? :-) Fred From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 13 18:06:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3E16Z79031762; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 18:06:35 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3E16XZc031736; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 18:06:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 18:06:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 21:06:30 -0400 Message-Id: <8C82D76CC4D1FA1-163C-58D@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <410-22006451401847251@earthlink.net> <8C82D763BBD8E0B-163C-575@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <8C82D763BBD8E0B-163C-575@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Fwd: Does A Voltage Alter The Ether? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.133 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3E16VF8031707 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67555 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message-----  From: Frederick Sparber    It's hard to stay ahead of Hal.    <><><><><><>    Hal's 80th birthday is June 20th.    You *have* read Hotson on the Dirac sea, right? All charge polarizes the vacuum if it is composed of -epo.    Terry, out there  ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 13 18:07:37 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3E17N3O032280; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 18:07:23 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3E17MTl032261; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 18:07:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 18:07:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 21:07:19 -0400 Message-Id: <8C82D76E9C9810B-163C-590@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <410-22006451405826933@earthlink.net> <8C82D76ABE1B83E-163C-586@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <8C82D76ABE1B83E-163C-586@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Fwd: Does A Voltage Alter The Ether? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.133 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3E17KCF032243 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67556 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message-----  From: Frederick Sparber    In the words of Festus Hagan, "Don't you see"? :-)    <><><><><><><>    Festus taught me to put some eggshells in my coffee to take the bitter out. Little did he know that the chickens were using alchemy. ;-)    Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 13 18:13:35 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3E1D7oK002271; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 18:13:07 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3E1D5K8002251; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 18:13:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 18:13:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <009601c65f60$94df0220$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-220064413151452348@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 03:13:03 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67557 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ingenious! (Faraday cup and saucer, indeed ;) For electrons slow enough not to produce secondary emission I would have thought a simpler collecting device, not a hollow one, would work: a grid surrounding a solid conductor, the latter positive wrt the former. For the ultra-low energy emitter photo-emission should work better than thermo-emission as it will give more homogeneous energies (precisely controlled by incident light wavelength aren't they?) Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 5:14 PM Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons > Michel Jullian wrote: >> >> From: "Frederick Sparber" >> Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 2:33 PM >> >> > Electrically fieldless, but not gravity fieldless, Michel. >> >> That's what I had understood Fred, besides if it was gravity fieldless we >> would already have discovered antigravity and there would be nothing to > test >> with this tube :) >> > Precisely >> >> > If electrons are released at the bottom and gravity repels them upward, >> > I think a Faraday Cup can be used to detect them. >> >> I'll probably make a fool of myself but what's a Faraday cup, and how > would >> you produce the slow electrons? >> > A Faraday cup is a match to a Faraday (flying?) saucer. > > Only kidding. > I googled up this image. If the evacuated hollow tube has a heated > filament > (or photo-emissive device) in a can at the bottom with a hole in the top > that allows an electron of nearly zero upward velocity (another faraday > cup?) > if the electrons repel gravity they should fall up with force F = ma where > they are detected/timed by an electrometer tied into the faraday cup > collector. > > http://home.earthlink.net/~chutko/ionmeas.htm > > " A Faraday cup consists of two coaxial isolated cylinders: grounded outer > screening cylinder and inner collecting one (collector). It works like > "black body" in optic - absorbs all particles which pass into collector > and > significantly decrease the output of secondary particles created due to > interaction of primary particles with the surface of collector. The ratio > of the input aperture diameter to the length of the collector should be > not > less than 1 : 5." >> > Fred >> Best wishes >> Michel >> > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 13 18:56:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3E1ubjF018313; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 18:56:37 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3E1uaFc018293; Thu, 13 Apr 2006 18:56:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 18:56:36 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=BwTP7RU4iE3B5EELUlkBPQ3d9H7ME8Thlbvl4MDZDN/g/yevBA+cb0r/mgAv5PQl; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200645141563908@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 19:56:03 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9408919d74fb0cbac0e95315fb1989130b5350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.248 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67558 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michel Jullian writes. > > Ingenious! (Faraday cup and saucer, indeed ;) > Very British for tea, what? :-) > > For electrons slow enough not to produce secondary emission I would have > thought a simpler collecting device, not a hollow one, would work: a grid > surrounding a solid conductor, the latter positive wrt the former. > In vacuum tubes (if you are old enough to remember them) they call that the suppressor grid, usually tied internally to the cathode. > > For the ultra-low energy emitter photo-emission should work better than > thermo-emission as it will give more homogeneous energies (precisely > controlled by incident light wavelength aren't they?) > I think an LED/or laser could cause low energy-low velocity electron emission from a low work function photo-emissive material. One of Walter Fendt's applets for materials: http://www.walter-fendt.de/ph14e/photoeffect.htm Measuring the time-of-flight of the electrons from flash to detection at the top/electrometer to determine/prove gravity repulsion might be a chore Fred > > Michel > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 03:21:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3EALfL6007154; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 03:21:41 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3EALdEK007137; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 03:21:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 03:21:39 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <003c01c65fad$38d1eae0$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-2200645141563908@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 12:21:41 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67559 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Measuring the time-of-flight of the electrons from flash to detection > at the top/electrometer to determine/prove gravity repulsion might be a > chore You're right Fred, what would be needed is not an electrometer maybe (mechanical stuff with inertia isn't it?) What would you think of the following setup: - Grounded photocathode at the bottom of the tube - Grounded grid at the top of the tube (so tube is fieldless) - Plate above the grid connected to positive terminal of a low voltage power supply whose negative terminal is grounded. Time of flight would be time between laser flash and power supply current pulse wouldn't it? Michel P.S. Nice applet indeed! P.P.S. No I know nothing about vacuum tubes (was born in 57) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 3:56 AM Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons > Michel Jullian writes. >> >> Ingenious! (Faraday cup and saucer, indeed ;) >> > Very British for tea, what? :-) >> >> For electrons slow enough not to produce secondary emission I would have >> thought a simpler collecting device, not a hollow one, would work: a grid >> surrounding a solid conductor, the latter positive wrt the former. >> > In vacuum tubes (if you are old enough to remember them) > they call that the suppressor grid, usually tied > internally to the cathode. >> >> For the ultra-low energy emitter photo-emission should work better than >> thermo-emission as it will give more homogeneous energies (precisely >> controlled by incident light wavelength aren't they?) >> > I think an LED/or laser could cause low energy-low velocity electron > emission from a low work function photo-emissive material. > > One of Walter Fendt's applets for materials: > > http://www.walter-fendt.de/ph14e/photoeffect.htm > > Measuring the time-of-flight of the electrons from flash to detection > at the top/electrometer to determine/prove gravity repulsion might be a > chore > > Fred >> >> Michel >> > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 04:28:14 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3EBS3RZ028172; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 04:28:03 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3EBS1kS028154; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 04:28:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 04:28:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=S9ehG2QMTzSjg7fV6nUiTiAty7cJe/fnJL9XjliiT5FtOX4KbMMVKkDuhS4tifrX; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064514112751619@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 05:27:51 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940eebd2892ba175a246eb42b85cec2cc77350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.19 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67560 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michel wrote. > > > Measuring the time-of-flight of the electrons from flash to detection > > at the top/electrometer to determine/prove gravity repulsion might be a > > chore > > You're right Fred, what would be needed is not an electrometer maybe > (mechanical stuff with inertia isn't it?) > > What would you think of the following setup: > > - Grounded photo-cathode at the bottom of the tube > The S1 (Cs-CsO- on Ag) Photoemissive surface is the one with the photon peaks at ~ 330 and ~ 800 nanometers with a threshold of about 1254 nm (1.0 eV IR) Cr YAG Laser? http://ssd-rd.web.cern.ch/ssd-rd/Pad_HPD/Principle/photocathodes.htm 0.1 eV electrons have a velocity v = (0.1* 2*1.6e-19/9.1e-31)^1/2 = 1.875e5 meters/sec! Electron space charge will act as a "velocity filter" that allows the higher energy electrons out, but if there is a repulsive gravity force F(gr) = m*g = = 9.1e-31*9.8 = 8.9e-30 newtons on an electron and the restraining electric field (E volts/meter) force F(e) = E*q = 1.6e-19 newtons at E = 1.0 volt/meter, there is a problem. :-) > > - Grounded grid at the top of the tube (so tube is fieldless) > Sounds like a Faraday cup approach, Michel. > > - Plate above the grid connected to positive terminal of a low voltage power > supply whose negative terminal is grounded. > > Time of flight would be time between laser flash and power supply current > pulse wouldn't it? > Yes. But the ~ 5 microseconds/meter 0.1 eV electrons get there ahead of the S - 0.5 * a* t^2 ~ = 3.0e-10 meters gravity repelled electrons traveled. OTOH. if you light pulse it and wait for the "slowpokes" ? Fred > Michel > > P.S. Nice applet indeed! > P.P.S. No I know nothing about vacuum tubes (was born in 57) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frederick Sparber" > To: > Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 3:56 AM > Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons > > > > Michel Jullian writes. > >> > >> Ingenious! (Faraday cup and saucer, indeed ;) > >> > > Very British for tea, what? :-) > >> > >> For electrons slow enough not to produce secondary emission I would have > >> thought a simpler collecting device, not a hollow one, would work: a grid > >> surrounding a solid conductor, the latter positive wrt the former. > >> > > In vacuum tubes (if you are old enough to remember them) > > they call that the suppressor grid, usually tied > > internally to the cathode. > >> > >> For the ultra-low energy emitter photo-emission should work better than > >> thermo-emission as it will give more homogeneous energies (precisely > >> controlled by incident light wavelength aren't they?) > >> > > I think an LED/or laser could cause low energy-low velocity electron > > emission from a low work function photo-emissive material. > > > > One of Walter Fendt's applets for materials: > > > > http://www.walter-fendt.de/ph14e/photoeffect.htm > > > > Measuring the time-of-flight of the electrons from flash to detection > > at the top/electrometer to determine/prove gravity repulsion might be a > > chore > > > > Fred > >> > >> Michel > >> > > > > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 05:09:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3EC9B1v010206; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 05:09:12 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3EC96Cw010169; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 05:09:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 05:09:06 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=lP/i+0o2SRre1a63/hrtYBdr/voUQzomecwsB3gjKd5AI55XKmVOZgSmHERJFDDU; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200645141290928@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: FW: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 06:09:00 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940de6e0d6b3ce8920120ac36a9a3edaf1d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.227 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67561 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Similar approach (looking for slow electrons > 0.25 sec traverse times) for seeing what positrons from a picocurie of positron emitter like Na-22 do in a meter long vertical evacuated tube do? > [Original Message] > From: Frederick Sparber > To: > Date: 4/14/2006 5:28:36 AM > Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons > > Michel wrote. > > > > > Measuring the time-of-flight of the electrons from flash to detection > > > at the top/electrometer to determine/prove gravity repulsion might be a > > > chore > > > > You're right Fred, what would be needed is not an electrometer maybe > > (mechanical stuff with inertia isn't it?) > > > > What would you think of the following setup: > > > > - Grounded photo-cathode at the bottom of the tube > > > The S1 (Cs-CsO- on Ag) Photoemissive surface is the one with the > photon peaks at ~ 330 and ~ 800 nanometers with a threshold of about 1254 > nm (1.0 eV IR) > Cr YAG Laser? > > http://ssd-rd.web.cern.ch/ssd-rd/Pad_HPD/Principle/photocathodes.htm > > 0.1 eV electrons have a velocity v = (0.1* 2*1.6e-19/9.1e-31)^1/2 = > 1.875e5 meters/sec! > Electron space charge will act as a "velocity filter" that allows the > higher energy electrons > out, but if there is a repulsive gravity force F(gr) = m*g = = 9.1e-31*9.8 > = 8.9e-30 newtons on an electron > and the restraining electric field (E volts/meter) > force F(e) = E*q = 1.6e-19 newtons at E = 1.0 volt/meter, there is a > problem. :-) > > > > - Grounded grid at the top of the tube (so tube is fieldless) > > > Sounds like a Faraday cup approach, Michel. > > > > - Plate above the grid connected to positive terminal of a low voltage > power > > supply whose negative terminal is grounded. > > > > Time of flight would be time between laser flash and power supply current > > pulse wouldn't it? > > > Yes. But the ~ 5 microseconds/meter 0.1 eV electrons get there ahead of > the S - 0.5 * a* t^2 ~ = 3.0e-10 meters gravity repelled electrons > traveled. > OTOH. if you light pulse it and wait for the "slowpokes" ? > > Fred > > Michel > > > > P.S. Nice applet indeed! > > P.P.S. No I know nothing about vacuum tubes (was born in 57) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Frederick Sparber" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 3:56 AM > > Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons > > > > > > > Michel Jullian writes. > > >> > > >> Ingenious! (Faraday cup and saucer, indeed ;) > > >> > > > Very British for tea, what? :-) > > >> > > >> For electrons slow enough not to produce secondary emission I would > have > > >> thought a simpler collecting device, not a hollow one, would work: a > grid > > >> surrounding a solid conductor, the latter positive wrt the former. > > >> > > > In vacuum tubes (if you are old enough to remember them) > > > they call that the suppressor grid, usually tied > > > internally to the cathode. > > >> > > >> For the ultra-low energy emitter photo-emission should work better than > > >> thermo-emission as it will give more homogeneous energies (precisely > > >> controlled by incident light wavelength aren't they?) > > >> > > > I think an LED/or laser could cause low energy-low velocity electron > > > emission from a low work function photo-emissive material. > > > > > > One of Walter Fendt's applets for materials: > > > > > > http://www.walter-fendt.de/ph14e/photoeffect.htm > > > > > > Measuring the time-of-flight of the electrons from flash to detection > > > at the top/electrometer to determine/prove gravity repulsion might be a > > > chore > > > > > > Fred > > >> > > >> Michel > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 05:41:19 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3ECf7jx020861; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 05:41:07 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3ECf5mH020847; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 05:41:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 05:41:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=qIrYT0d2EJyYIQmdfRct1ZYh9VKhb/LzsbwwS1aKGQlA4SJXrjHblSck99DaOa9z; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064514124056952@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 06:40:56 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940ce7ae55cfc66f997dd292d2d0fa83932350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.81 Resent-Message-ID: <2RbZR.A.nFF.hh5PEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67562 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: GSU Trajectory calculators: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/traj.html#tra3 Curies (3.7e10/sec) per gram of isotopes, saves a lot of time. :-) http://www.iem-inc.com/toolspar.html Posted earlier: > > Similar approach (looking for slow electrons > 0.25 sec traverse times) > for seeing what positrons from a picocurie of positron emitter like Na-22 > do in a meter long vertical evacuated tube do? > > > > > Michel wrote. > > > > > > > Measuring the time-of-flight of the electrons from flash to detection > > > > at the top/electrometer to determine/prove gravity repulsion might be > a > > > > chore > > > > > > You're right Fred, what would be needed is not an electrometer maybe > > > (mechanical stuff with inertia isn't it?) > > > > > > What would you think of the following setup: > > > > > > - Grounded photo-cathode at the bottom of the tube > > > > > The S1 (Cs-CsO- on Ag) Photoemissive surface is the one with the > > photon peaks at ~ 330 and ~ 800 nanometers with a threshold of about 1254 > > nm (1.0 eV IR) > > Cr YAG Laser? > > > > http://ssd-rd.web.cern.ch/ssd-rd/Pad_HPD/Principle/photocathodes.htm > > > > 0.1 eV electrons have a velocity v = (0.1* 2*1.6e-19/9.1e-31)^1/2 = > > 1.875e5 meters/sec! > > Electron space charge will act as a "velocity filter" that allows the > > higher energy electrons > > out, but if there is a repulsive gravity force F(gr) = m*g = = 9.1e-31*9.8 > > = 8.9e-30 newtons on an electron > > and the restraining electric field (E volts/meter) > > force F(e) = E*q = 1.6e-19 newtons at E = 1.0 volt/meter, there is a > > problem. :-) > > > > > > - Grounded grid at the top of the tube (so tube is fieldless) > > > > > Sounds like a Faraday cup approach, Michel. > > > > > > - Plate above the grid connected to positive terminal of a low voltage > > power > > > supply whose negative terminal is grounded. > > > > > > Time of flight would be time between laser flash and power supply > current > > > pulse wouldn't it? > > > > > Yes. But the ~ 5 microseconds/meter 0.1 eV electrons get there ahead of > > the S - 0.5 * a* t^2 ~ = 3.0e-10 meters gravity repelled electrons > > traveled. > > OTOH. if you light pulse it and wait for the "slowpokes" ? > > > > Fred > > > Michel > > > > > > P.S. Nice applet indeed! > > > P.P.S. No I know nothing about vacuum tubes (was born in 57) > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Frederick Sparber" > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 3:56 AM > > > Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons > > > > > > > > > > Michel Jullian writes. > > > >> > > > >> Ingenious! (Faraday cup and saucer, indeed ;) > > > >> > > > > Very British for tea, what? :-) > > > >> > > > >> For electrons slow enough not to produce secondary emission I would > > have > > > >> thought a simpler collecting device, not a hollow one, would work: a > > grid > > > >> surrounding a solid conductor, the latter positive wrt the former. > > > >> > > > > In vacuum tubes (if you are old enough to remember them) > > > > they call that the suppressor grid, usually tied > > > > internally to the cathode. > > > >> > > > >> For the ultra-low energy emitter photo-emission should work better > than > > > >> thermo-emission as it will give more homogeneous energies (precisely > > > >> controlled by incident light wavelength aren't they?) > > > >> > > > > I think an LED/or laser could cause low energy-low velocity electron > > > > emission from a low work function photo-emissive material. > > > > > > > > One of Walter Fendt's applets for materials: > > > > > > > > http://www.walter-fendt.de/ph14e/photoeffect.htm > > > > > > > > Measuring the time-of-flight of the electrons from flash to detection > > > > at the top/electrometer to determine/prove gravity repulsion might be > a > > > > chore > > > > > > > > Fred > > > >> > > > >> Michel > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 06:17:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3EDHMpV003817; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 06:17:23 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3EDHK3k003784; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 06:17:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 06:17:20 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <007f01c65fc2$9b1b2760$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-220064514112751619@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 14:54:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67563 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 1:27 PM >> - Grounded photo-cathode at the bottom of the tube >> > The S1 (Cs-CsO- on Ag) Photoemissive surface is the one with the > photon peaks at ~ 330 and ~ 800 nanometers with a threshold of about 1254 > nm (1.0 eV IR) > Cr YAG Laser? > > http://ssd-rd.web.cern.ch/ssd-rd/Pad_HPD/Principle/photocathodes.htm > > 0.1 eV electrons have a velocity v = (0.1* 2*1.6e-19/9.1e-31)^1/2 = > 1.875e5 meters/sec! Checked/agreed. That's 10.66 µs for a 2m flight, quite a comfortable thing to measure. > Electron space charge will act as a "velocity filter" that allows the > higher energy electrons > out, Agreed, thats' a good thing since we are only interested in the fastest electrons: they are the only one whose initial velocity we know for sure. > but if there is a repulsive gravity force F(gr) = m*g = = 9.1e-31*9.8 > = 8.9e-30 newtons on an electron > and the restraining electric field (E volts/meter) > force F(e) = E*q = 1.6e-19 newtons at E = 1.0 volt/meter, there is a > problem. :-) What, which restraining electric field, where ??? >> >> - Grounded grid at the top of the tube (so tube is fieldless) >> > Sounds like a Faraday cup approach, Michel. A Faraday saucer actually (not a joke this time, the positive collecting plate wouldn't be hollow) >> >> - Plate above the grid connected to positive terminal of a low voltage > power >> supply whose negative terminal is grounded. >> >> Time of flight would be time between laser flash and power supply current >> pulse wouldn't it? >> > Yes. But the ~ 5 microseconds/meter 0.1 eV electrons get there ahead of > the S - 0.5 * a* t^2 ~ = 3.0e-10 meters gravity repelled electrons > traveled. Please explain. > OTOH. if you light pulse it and wait for the "slowpokes" ? No, as I said we wouldn't know their initial velocity. Michel > > Fred >> Michel >> >> P.S. Nice applet indeed! >> P.P.S. No I know nothing about vacuum tubes (was born in 57) >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Frederick Sparber" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 3:56 AM >> Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons >> >> >> > Michel Jullian writes. >> >> >> >> Ingenious! (Faraday cup and saucer, indeed ;) >> >> >> > Very British for tea, what? :-) >> >> >> >> For electrons slow enough not to produce secondary emission I would > have >> >> thought a simpler collecting device, not a hollow one, would work: a > grid >> >> surrounding a solid conductor, the latter positive wrt the former. >> >> >> > In vacuum tubes (if you are old enough to remember them) >> > they call that the suppressor grid, usually tied >> > internally to the cathode. >> >> >> >> For the ultra-low energy emitter photo-emission should work better >> >> than >> >> thermo-emission as it will give more homogeneous energies (precisely >> >> controlled by incident light wavelength aren't they?) >> >> >> > I think an LED/or laser could cause low energy-low velocity electron >> > emission from a low work function photo-emissive material. >> > >> > One of Walter Fendt's applets for materials: >> > >> > http://www.walter-fendt.de/ph14e/photoeffect.htm >> > >> > Measuring the time-of-flight of the electrons from flash to detection >> > at the top/electrometer to determine/prove gravity repulsion might be a >> > chore >> > >> > Fred >> >> >> >> Michel >> >> >> > >> > >> > > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 06:48:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3EDmTvi024760; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 06:48:29 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3EDmSTL024742; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 06:48:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 06:48:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 09:48:25 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C82DE13CB15F71-19E8-26A2D@mblkn-m19.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: 113 mpg for 2008 Prius Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.137 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67564 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/66260/prius_hits_113mpg.html Prius hits 113mpg Tyota is charging ahead in the race for domination of the hybrid car market, according to Auto Express spies. The firm's next Prius will be so efficient it will be the first production car capable of returning more than 110mpg. The newcomer is being developed to try to improve European sales. While the car has been a success in the US, it has met a mixed reaction on this side of the Atlantic, due to the popularity of diesel models. But now we've been told that engineers working on the new Prius have a fuel economy target of 40km/litre - a mind-boggling 113mpg. "The whole electrical system has been redesigned to improve economy" said one Toyota engineer. "We are working on a prototype that runs solely on the electric motor in slow traffic, but switches to engine and motor drive when higher speeds are needed." The secret lies with the batteries. The current Prius uses nickel-hydride items, which currently offer the best balance between cost and performance. But engineers are working on new lithium on cells, which are lighter, smaller, generate more power and last longer. Subaru and Mitsubishi both plan to sell electric cars by 2010, but Toyota hopes to get its new model on the road as early as 2008. And improved economy isn't the firm's only goal, as engineers are working on reducing the current car's 10.9-second 0-62mph time by more than a second. ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 07:07:02 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3EE6kgS031905; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:06:47 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3EE6jIQ031887; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:06:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:06:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060414100020.08379918@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 10:06:38 -0400 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: 113 mpg for 2008 Prius In-Reply-To: <8C82DE13CB15F71-19E8-26A2D@mblkn-m19.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C82DE13CB15F71-19E8-26A2D@mblkn-m19.sysops.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67565 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote: >But now we've been told that engineers working on the new Prius have >a fuel economy target of 40km/litre - a mind-boggling 113mpg. Wonderful! I hope they make it a plug-in hybrid. In the U.S., Toyota just came out with a hybrid model of their Camry, which I believe is the best-selling U.S. automobile model. If U.S. do not quickly catch up and bring a good hybrid models they are doomed -- and frankly I think they deserve to go out of business. If cold fusion ever becomes practical, the same thing will happen on a faster time scale. >And improved economy isn't the firm's only goal, as engineers are >working on reducing the current car's 10.9-second 0-62mph time by >more than a second. Arrgggghhh! I hate it when car manufacturers obsess about this. It is so stupid. For one thing, the so-called "muscle cars" of the 1960s actually took around 10 seconds, and nobody cared or noticed. For another, at low speeds the Prius actually accelerates faster than a regular car, thanks to the electric motor. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 07:12:04 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3EEBsbD001635; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:11:54 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3EEBq4k001616; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:11:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:11:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060414101139.082d3f10@mindspring.com> Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060414100746.0836d0d8@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 10:11:46 -0400 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Mizuno sends us e-book in Japanese Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <_BQeMB.A.MZ.o26PEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67566 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mizuno just sent me an e-book in Japanese, "Cold Fusion Project," 107 pages. This will be our first document in Japanese. It is a good introduction to the field. We now have introductions and review papers in Spanish and Portuguese (your "Student's Guide"), French, German and Chinese. This is a good opportunity to reach out to the international audience. I will upload this today, along with McKubre's 1994 paper from J. Electroanalytical Chemistry. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 07:13:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3EECwWG002371; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:12:59 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3EECtVY002342; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:12:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:12:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Xn/byj4DKhhf/LWLtUa6g7aCAdpjPHrnaHeBVTzl/IwH0cS6+uOWtVIaut4CUkGV; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064514141247279@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 08:12:47 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94099e60b4f3f50fd52dca7c1d05362aa0a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.120.182 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67567 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michel Jullian wrote. > > > From: "Frederick Sparber" > Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 1:27 PM > > > The S1 (Cs-CsO- on Ag) Photoemissive surface is the one with the > > photon peaks at ~ 330 and ~ 800 nanometers with a threshold of about 1254 > > nm (1.0 eV IR) > > Cr YAG Laser? > > > > http://ssd-rd.web.cern.ch/ssd-rd/Pad_HPD/Principle/photocathodes.htm > > > > 0.1 eV electrons have a velocity v = (0.1* 2*1.6e-19/9.1e-31)^1/2 = > > 1.875e5 meters/sec! > > Checked/agreed. That's 10.66 µs for a 2m flight, quite a comfortable thing > to measure. > But you don't want these"volunteers". :-) > > > Electron space charge will act as a "velocity filter" that allows the > > higher energy electrons > > out, > > Agreed, thats' a good thing since we are only interested in the fastest > electrons: they are the only one whose initial velocity we know for sure. > It lets the "volunteers" that you don't want to measure, wrt Repulsed Electrons. > > > but if there is a repulsive gravity force F(gr) = m*g = = 9.1e-31*9.8 > > = 8.9e-30 newtons on an electron > > and the restraining electric field (E volts/meter) > > force F(e) = E*q = 1.6e-19 newtons at E = 1.0 volt/meter, there is a > > problem. :-) > > What, which restraining electric field, where ??? > Space Charge builds up due to the Image Charge around an electron emitter, thus creating a restraining electric field. In Thermionic Converters it's neutralized with cesium or potassium ions. > > > Sounds like a Faraday cup approach, Michel. > > A Faraday saucer actually (not a joke this time, the positive collecting > plate wouldn't be hollow) > Agreed. A one or two meter evacuated (vertical height) tube with some cesium at the bottom surface and a pulsed LED light source at the top near the Faraday Saucer collection electrode etc.. > > >> Time of flight would be time between laser flash and power supply current > >> pulse wouldn't it? > >> > > Yes. But the ~ 5 microseconds/meter 0.1 eV electrons get there ahead of > > the S = 0.5 * a* t^2 ~ = 3.0e-10 meters gravity repelled electrons > > traveled. > > Please explain. > Use the GSU "Free Fall" calculator, except down might be up. > > > OTOH. if you light pulse it and wait for the "slowpokes" ? > > No, as I said we wouldn't know their initial velocity. > It doesn't really matter, as these GSU calculators show for Free Fall (the same as an upward Repulsive Force) vs Vertical Trajectory for those electrons that get past Image Charge and Space Charge, say you reject any times less than 0.45 seconds the negative distance will be minus 0.94725 meters with a "launch speed" of 0.1 meters/sec. http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/traj.html#tra3 IOW, neglect the high velocity stuff (easy to do electronically) and look for detection after at least 0.3 seconds delay. Fred > Michel > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 07:24:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3EENtLP006814; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:23:56 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3EENsaD006790; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:23:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:23:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060414101925.083b4e70@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 10:23:36 -0400 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Mizuno sends us e-book in Japanese In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060414101139.082d3f10@mindspring.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060414101139.082d3f10@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67568 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I wrote: >review papers in Spanish and Portuguese (your "Student's Guide") . . . Meant: Ed Storms' "Student's Guide." The Spanish and Portuguese versions are very popular. Thanks again to Sergio Bacchi, the translator. We should list him as translator in the papers. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 07:36:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3EEaMMP011659; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:36:23 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3EEaKC2011631; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:36:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:36:20 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=O6EWi6Xf/3KJ1Ym1ZfFZkp/jfUU74hqKhRtom5KKaBer2kC8mDhsvaPZEikQTujc; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006451414365440@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: FW: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 08:36:05 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940620bb8bd31cbe64b52d0d3532e150246350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.120.210 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67569 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > [Original Message] > From: Frederick Sparber > To: > Date: 4/14/2006 8:13:27 AM > Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons > > Michel Jullian wrote. > > > > > > From: "Frederick Sparber" > > Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 1:27 PM > > > > > The S1 (Cs-CsO- on Ag) Photoemissive surface is the one with the > > > photon peaks at ~ 330 and ~ 800 nanometers with a threshold of about > 1254 > > > nm (1.0 eV IR) > > > Cr YAG Laser? > > > > > > http://ssd-rd.web.cern.ch/ssd-rd/Pad_HPD/Principle/photocathodes.htm > > > > > > 0.1 eV electrons have a velocity v = (0.1* 2*1.6e-19/9.1e-31)^1/2 = > > > 1.875e5 meters/sec! > > > > Checked/agreed. That's 10.66 µs for a 2m flight, quite a comfortable > thing > > to measure. > > > But you don't want these"volunteers". :-) > > > > > Electron space charge will act as a "velocity filter" that allows the > > > higher energy electrons > > > out, > > > > Agreed, thats' a good thing since we are only interested in the fastest > > electrons: they are the only one whose initial velocity we know for sure. > > > It lets the "volunteers" that you don't want to measure, wrt Repulsed > Electrons. > > > > > but if there is a repulsive gravity force F(gr) = m*g = = 9.1e-31*9.8 > > > = 8.9e-30 newtons on an electron > > > and the restraining electric field (E volts/meter) > > > force F(e) = E*q = 1.6e-19 newtons at E = 1.0 volt/meter, there is a > > > problem. :-) > > > > What, which restraining electric field, where ??? > > > Space Charge builds up due to the Image Charge around an electron > emitter, thus creating a restraining electric field. In Thermionic > Converters > it's neutralized with cesium or potassium ions. > > > > > Sounds like a Faraday cup approach, Michel. > > > > A Faraday saucer actually (not a joke this time, the positive collecting > > plate wouldn't be hollow) > > > Agreed. A one or two meter evacuated (vertical height) tube with > some cesium at the bottom surface and a pulsed LED light source > at the top near the Faraday Saucer collection electrode etc.. > > > > >> Time of flight would be time between laser flash and power supply > current > > >> pulse wouldn't it? > > >> > > > Yes. But the ~ 5 microseconds/meter 0.1 eV electrons get there ahead of > > > the S = 0.5 * a* t^2 ~ = 3.0e-10 meters gravity repelled electrons > > > traveled. > > > > Please explain. > > > Use the GSU "Free Fall" calculator, except down might be up. > > > > > OTOH. if you light pulse it and wait for the "slowpokes" ? > > > > No, as I said we wouldn't know their initial velocity. > > > It doesn't really matter, as these GSU calculators show for Free Fall > (the same as an upward Repulsive Force) vs Vertical Trajectory for > those electrons that get past Image Charge and Space Charge, say > you reject any times less than 0.45 seconds the negative distance > will be minus 0.94725 meters with a "launch speed" of 0.1 meters/sec. > > http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/traj.html#tra3 > > IOW, neglect the high velocity stuff (easy to do electronically) > and look for detection after at least 0.3 seconds delay. > > Fred > > Michel > > > > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 07:38:56 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3EEcXnY012545; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:38:34 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3EEcTaA012516; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:38:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:38:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 10:38:25 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C82DE8391F2789-19E8-26C3C@mblkn-m19.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Solar System Anomalies Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.137 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67570 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Some Vorts might find this interesting: http://www.arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0604052 Abstract A collection is made of presently unexplained phenomena within our Solar system and in the universe. These phenomena are (i) the Pioneer anomaly, (ii) the flyby anomaly, (iii) the increase of the Astronomical Unit, (iv) the quadrupole and octupole anomaly, and (v) Dark Energy and (vi) Dark Matter. A new data analysis of the complete set of Pioneer data is announced in order to search for systematic effects or to confirm the unexplained acceleration. We also review the mysterious flyby anomaly where the velocities of spacecraft after Earth swing--bys are larger than expected. We emphasize the scientific aspects of this anomaly and propose systematic and continuous observations and studies at the occasion of future flybys. Further anomalies within the Solar system are the increase of the Astronomical Unit and the quadrupole and octupole anomaly. We briefly mention Dark Matter and Dark Energy since in some cases a relation between them and the Solar system anomalies have been speculated. ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 07:41:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3EEfErx013893; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:41:14 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3EEf7fQ013836; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:41:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:41:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00af01c65fd1$77bc71c0$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-220064514141247279@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 16:41:08 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67571 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > IOW, neglect the high velocity stuff (easy to do electronically) > and look for detection after at least 0.3 seconds delay. I don't get it, what's wrong with the volunteers as you call them, aren't they submitted to gravity too? They can be made as slow as desired using a decelerating electrode (another grid, which would have to be grounded, so the photocathode right below this new grid would have to be at a positive voltage wrt ground) What about having two of these tubes end to end but looking opposite ways, and measuring the difference in the flight times of the fastest electrons? One could do this once with tube 1 on top, and once with tube 2 on top, to ascertain the effect is gravitational. Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 4:12 PM Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons > Michel Jullian wrote. >> >> >> From: "Frederick Sparber" >> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 1:27 PM >> >> > The S1 (Cs-CsO- on Ag) Photoemissive surface is the one with the >> > photon peaks at ~ 330 and ~ 800 nanometers with a threshold of about > 1254 >> > nm (1.0 eV IR) >> > Cr YAG Laser? >> > >> > http://ssd-rd.web.cern.ch/ssd-rd/Pad_HPD/Principle/photocathodes.htm >> > >> > 0.1 eV electrons have a velocity v = (0.1* 2*1.6e-19/9.1e-31)^1/2 = >> > 1.875e5 meters/sec! >> >> Checked/agreed. That's 10.66 µs for a 2m flight, quite a comfortable > thing >> to measure. >> > But you don't want these"volunteers". :-) >> >> > Electron space charge will act as a "velocity filter" that allows the >> > higher energy electrons >> > out, >> >> Agreed, thats' a good thing since we are only interested in the fastest >> electrons: they are the only one whose initial velocity we know for sure. >> > It lets the "volunteers" that you don't want to measure, wrt Repulsed > Electrons. >> >> > but if there is a repulsive gravity force F(gr) = m*g = = 9.1e-31*9.8 >> > = 8.9e-30 newtons on an electron >> > and the restraining electric field (E volts/meter) >> > force F(e) = E*q = 1.6e-19 newtons at E = 1.0 volt/meter, there is a >> > problem. :-) >> >> What, which restraining electric field, where ??? >> > Space Charge builds up due to the Image Charge around an electron > emitter, thus creating a restraining electric field. In Thermionic > Converters > it's neutralized with cesium or potassium ions. >> >> > Sounds like a Faraday cup approach, Michel. >> >> A Faraday saucer actually (not a joke this time, the positive collecting >> plate wouldn't be hollow) >> > Agreed. A one or two meter evacuated (vertical height) tube with > some cesium at the bottom surface and a pulsed LED light source > at the top near the Faraday Saucer collection electrode etc.. >> >> >> Time of flight would be time between laser flash and power supply > current >> >> pulse wouldn't it? >> >> >> > Yes. But the ~ 5 microseconds/meter 0.1 eV electrons get there ahead >> > of >> > the S = 0.5 * a* t^2 ~ = 3.0e-10 meters gravity repelled electrons >> > traveled. >> >> Please explain. >> > Use the GSU "Free Fall" calculator, except down might be up. >> >> > OTOH. if you light pulse it and wait for the "slowpokes" ? >> >> No, as I said we wouldn't know their initial velocity. >> > It doesn't really matter, as these GSU calculators show for Free Fall > (the same as an upward Repulsive Force) vs Vertical Trajectory for > those electrons that get past Image Charge and Space Charge, say > you reject any times less than 0.45 seconds the negative distance > will be minus 0.94725 meters with a "launch speed" of 0.1 meters/sec. > > http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/traj.html#tra3 > > IOW, neglect the high velocity stuff (easy to do electronically) > and look for detection after at least 0.3 seconds delay. > > Fred >> Michel >> >> > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 08:14:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3EFDqin027809; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 08:13:52 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3EFDpJ9027745; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 08:13:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 08:13:51 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=NLzCuNPRluCvb8fNz6srsFNVymafyTtkjOPoA3aB19JX5nmA8Fkc74YhRhn1UgP3; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064514151349385@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 09:13:49 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94081c32f4756f71dbedab1938368b8d9d3350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.165.133 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67572 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michel Jullian wrote. > > > > IOW, neglect the high velocity stuff (easy to do electronically) > > and look for detection after at least 0.3 seconds delay. > > I don't get it, what's wrong with the volunteers as you call them, aren't > they submitted to gravity too? > Yes, but, discerning a few meters/second subtracted from 100 kilometers/sec Volunteers with millivolt resolution in adjusting decelerating electrodes and all of the artifact fields set up is too complicated for any believable experimental results. > > They can be made as slow as desired using a > decelerating electrode (another grid, which would have to be grounded, so > the photocathode right below this new grid would have to be at a positive > voltage wrt ground) > Too complicated. If there is a gravity repulsion force on any residual electrons after about a 0.3 second wait..... > > What about having two of these tubes end to end but looking opposite ways, > and measuring the difference in the flight times of the fastest electrons? > One could do this once with tube 1 on top, and once with tube 2 on top, to > ascertain the effect is gravitational. > Hard vacuum plumbing and step-ladders don't come cheap. :-) Fred > > Michel > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 09:03:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3EG3UFG016495; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 09:03:30 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3EG3STS016479; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 09:03:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 09:03:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00db01c65fdc$f7a33530$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-220064514151349385@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 18:03:27 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: <8ghqwB.A.bBE.Qf8PEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67573 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 5:13 PM Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons > Michel Jullian wrote. >> >> >> > IOW, neglect the high velocity stuff (easy to do electronically) >> > and look for detection after at least 0.3 seconds delay. >> >> I don't get it, what's wrong with the volunteers as you call them, aren't >> they submitted to gravity too? >> > Yes, but, discerning a few meters/second subtracted from 100 > kilometers/sec > Volunteers with millivolt resolution in adjusting decelerating electrodes > and all of > the artifact fields set up is too complicated for any believable > experimental results. >> >> They can be made as slow as desired using a >> decelerating electrode (another grid, which would have to be grounded, so >> the photocathode right below this new grid would have to be at a positive >> voltage wrt ground) >> > Too complicated. Not that complicated ! >If there is a gravity repulsion force on > any residual electrons after about a 0.3 second wait..... The thing is, any current after 0.3 second will not be measurable, whereas the volunteers current pulse will be high. >> >> What about having two of these tubes end to end but looking opposite > ways, >> and measuring the difference in the flight times of the fastest > electrons? >> One could do this once with tube 1 on top, and once with tube 2 on top, > to >> ascertain the effect is gravitational. >> > Hard vacuum plumbing and step-ladders don't come cheap. :-) Actually it could be done with one single evacuated 2m tube with the photocathodes in the middle, or a single vertical photocathode maybe. The point is we could trigger the scope on one of the two collected current pulses and watch the other one, whose time of arrival would be twice the time of flight variation due to gravity. Turning the tube upside down should make the observed pulse move to the other side of the synchro pulse. Might work even with relatively fast electrons...or not :) Michel > > Fred From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 09:27:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3EGRZKR024876; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 09:27:35 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3EGRV3C024840; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 09:27:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 09:27:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=fpx61kLE3dAR9DyErretcbGgoS5wW/6FlbMmRlK9lkYu3ZO1oy61QechSyttg8hi; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006451416271820@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 10:27:18 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940c550c263da583808e7a7200224a059e3350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.165.31 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67574 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: One Microvolt in experimental error means 593 meters/second delta v in electron velocity. No? I vote for a vacuum version of Stokes' " upward aerosol settling velocity". :-) Fred Michel Jullian wrote: > > Not that complicated ! > > >If there is a gravity repulsion force on > > any residual electrons after about a 0.3 second wait..... > > The thing is, any current after 0.3 second will not be measurable, whereas > the volunteers current pulse will be high. > > >> > >> What about having two of these tubes end to end but looking opposite > > ways, > >> and measuring the difference in the flight times of the fastest > > electrons? > >> One could do this once with tube 1 on top, and once with tube 2 on top, > > to > >> ascertain the effect is gravitational. > >> > > Hard vacuum plumbing and step-ladders don't come cheap. :-) > > Actually it could be done with one single evacuated 2m tube with the > photocathodes in the middle, or a single vertical photocathode maybe. > > The point is we could trigger the scope on one of the two collected current > pulses and watch the other one, whose time of arrival would be twice the > time of flight variation due to gravity. Turning the tube upside down should > make the observed pulse move to the other side of the synchro pulse. Might > work even with relatively fast electrons...or not :) > > Michel > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 09:39:41 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3EGdVb1029271; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 09:39:31 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3EGdTr1029249; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 09:39:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 09:39:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00ee01c65fe2$022bcb70$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-22006451416271820@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 18:39:19 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: <4cgfqC.A.9IH.BB9PEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67575 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 6:27 PM Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons > One Microvolt in experimental error means 593 meters/second > delta v in electron velocity. No? Er, why Fred? I thought we were measuring times, not voltages? A time difference in my last proposal, but admittedly I haven't done any error analysis, it just looked sound to me to only look for a time difference proportional to the effect. > > I vote for a vacuum version of Stokes' " upward aerosol settling > velocity". > :-) Well, it's your Thought Experiment ;) Michel > > Fred > > Michel Jullian wrote: >> >> Not that complicated ! >> >> >If there is a gravity repulsion force on >> > any residual electrons after about a 0.3 second wait..... >> >> The thing is, any current after 0.3 second will not be measurable, > whereas >> the volunteers current pulse will be high. >> >> >> >> >> What about having two of these tubes end to end but looking opposite >> > ways, >> >> and measuring the difference in the flight times of the fastest >> > electrons? >> >> One could do this once with tube 1 on top, and once with tube 2 on >> >> top, >> > to >> >> ascertain the effect is gravitational. >> >> >> > Hard vacuum plumbing and step-ladders don't come cheap. :-) >> >> Actually it could be done with one single evacuated 2m tube with the >> photocathodes in the middle, or a single vertical photocathode maybe. >> >> The point is we could trigger the scope on one of the two collected > current >> pulses and watch the other one, whose time of arrival would be twice the >> time of flight variation due to gravity. Turning the tube upside down > should >> make the observed pulse move to the other side of the synchro pulse. > Might >> work even with relatively fast electrons...or not :) >> >> Michel >> > > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 10:35:35 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3EHZME8018254; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 10:35:22 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3EHZK0j018235; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 10:35:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 10:35:20 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=YtIHepPNfoXExJI9Ff81IIFeStrUTzgC6sGFInBP4e6ecciGVfIFEDOV6Z9DmBww; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064514173511725@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 11:35:11 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94076ccd20af48c21a0d67b7361513875b1350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.120.32 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67576 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michel Jullian wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frederick Sparber" > To: > Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 6:27 PM > Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons > > > > One Microvolt in experimental error means 593 meters/second > > delta v in electron velocity. No? > > Er, why Fred? I thought we were measuring times, not voltages? > The gravity upward repulsive force (if it exists) would give an electron an upward force F = mg = 9.1e-31 kg*9.8 meters/sec^2 = 8.9e-30 newtons. Velocity = vo + 9.8 * t Distance S traversed = vo + 1/2 * 9.8 * t^2 So, to keep the chamber in the one to two meter length. For 1 = vo + 9.8*t^2 for vo = 0 t = 1/9.8)^1/2 = 0.319 seconds or 0.452 seconds for a two meter tube. Thus velocity v = vo + 9.8*t cannot be over ~ 3.2 meters/second. A Femto-Coulomb range Electrometer can detect 65,000 electrons or more trapped on a plate (saucer) in a faraday cup. http://www.keithley.com/products/locurrhiresist/electrometers?mn=6517A > > A time > difference in my last proposal, but admittedly I haven't done any error > analysis, it just looked sound to me to only look for a time difference > proportional to the effect. > Not an easy task, huh? > > > > > I vote for a vacuum version of Stokes' " upward aerosol settling > > velocity". > > :-) > > Well, it's your Thought Experiment ;) > Cheaper than those Keithleys and a vacuum system. :-) Fred > > Michel > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 11:01:06 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3EI0awM031730; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 11:00:37 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3EI0W1A031690; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 11:00:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 11:00:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <012401c65fed$53224300$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-220064514173511725@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 20:00:15 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67577 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 7:35 PM Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons > Michel Jullian wrote: >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Frederick Sparber" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 6:27 PM >> Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons >> >> >> > One Microvolt in experimental error means 593 meters/second >> > delta v in electron velocity. No? >> >> Er, why Fred? I thought we were measuring times, not voltages? >> > The gravity upward repulsive force (if it exists) would give an electron > an upward force F = mg = 9.1e-31 kg*9.8 meters/sec^2 = 8.9e-30 newtons. > Velocity = vo + 9.8 * t > Distance S traversed = vo + 1/2 * 9.8 * t^2 You mean vo*t + 1/2 * 9.8 * t^2 > So, to keep the chamber in the one to two meter length. > For 1 = vo + 9.8*t^2 for vo = 0 t = 1/9.8)^1/2 = 0.319 seconds > or 0.452 seconds for a two meter tube. > Thus velocity v = vo + 9.8*t cannot be over ~ 3.2 meters/second. You mean under??? > A Femto-Coulomb range Electrometer can detect 65,000 electrons > or more trapped on a plate (saucer) in a faraday cup. > > http://www.keithley.com/products/locurrhiresist/electrometers?mn=6517A Fred I don't see why you would need such a contraption, there is no need to trap the electrons, let them flow in an inexpensive power supply and look at the current pulses! > >> >> A time >> difference in my last proposal, but admittedly I haven't done any error >> analysis, it just looked sound to me to only look for a time difference >> proportional to the effect. >> > Not an easy task, huh? Quite easy with two back to back devices in the same tube and a scope triggered by one current pulse and watching the other I would have thought, what's wrong with the approach? >> >> > >> > I vote for a vacuum version of Stokes' " upward aerosol settling >> > velocity". >> > :-) >> >> Well, it's your Thought Experiment ;) >> > Cheaper than those Keithleys and a vacuum system. :-) Oh yes! Michel > Fred From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 11:22:50 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3EIMcXw013266; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 11:22:39 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3EIMaD6013242; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 11:22:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 11:22:36 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 14:22:34 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C82E0788F995F6-280C-5EBA@mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: The Green Flash Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.134 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67578 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Not a comic book hero; but, a sunset optical phenomenon which delighted Hannes Alfven: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap021110.html Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 12:24:35 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3EJOL6k007215; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 12:24:21 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3EJOJ6K007198; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 12:24:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 12:24:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: ThomasClark123@aol.com Message-ID: <32a.215fe70.317150dd@aol.com> Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 15:24:13 EDT Subject: Re: Electrostatic Hover Cars To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: ThomasClark123@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1145042653" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5042 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67579 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1145042653 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just last night being the day before good Friday, as I watched the Fisher King movie starring Robin Williams I noticed some associations in the movie with the quest to start companies to develop flying saucer space ships and space travel. Thunderstorms were created above my house while I watched the movie as if Zeus or Odin as the Lord God was watching it with me saying I was the one who could get the Grail. I noticed that many of the events that occurred in my life and still are occurring are very similar to the character that Robin Williams plays in the Fisher King, other than my role is along another slightly different version associating the King Arthur legends with the Norse and Greek Gods, and the Angelic Lionors novel by Barbara Ferry Johnson. I noticed that the last name of the character that Robin Williams plays in the movie is Sagan similar to name Carl Sagan who secretly knew the secrets behind the Nazi Flying saucers and who represents the Grail Quest to seek the stars by means of space flight. The role Robin Williams plays hints that the Grail King is sick since he has the burden of perhaps being one of the first to start companies or develop flying saucer technologies to make it to outer space to heal the land and the king and the Lord God. The name of the character that creates the wound and also helps the Sagan character played by Robin William's is Lucas similar to the Luke Skywalker image representing in the Star Wars series a grail quest knight who is one of the first in his family to escape slavery and make it to outer space. If the Grail King makes it to outer space and starts flying saucer companies, so will others, and then Earth and the Lord God and Grail King is healed. In order to start flying saucer companies, the Grail King may also need the help of a billionaire to finance the company, who in the Fisher King movie has the grail cup. In my version of the Grail Quest, it seems that I am playing both roles, the Grail King and Lord God with Zeus's or Odin's body as my great grandancestor's, as King Arthur, and perhaps as Shakespeare's Hamlet's Father's Ghost reincarnating in my body as holograms forewarning me and seeking to be healed, and the Grail Quest Knight as Apollo and Thor playing a role similar to Hamlet and Parsifal representing my true self underneath the holograms. I also noticed that in the Stephen King Dead Zone movie staring Christopher Walken played last Thursday, the role of the teacher played by Christopher Walken asks one of his students to read from the Lionor's myth in the movie, hinting that the Angelic Lionors Arthurian royal line may be the royal path that creates a better future for Earth, and avoids potential nuclear wars. Best Regards, Baron Volsung, www.rhfweb.com/baron President Thomas D. Clark, Email form: http://www.rhfweb.com/emailform.html, Personal Web Page: http://www.rhfweb.com/personal.html Architectural Engineers, http://www.rhfweb.com/ae Star Haven Community Services, at http://www.rhfweb.com/sh Radiation Health Foundation Trust at http://www.rhfweb.com/ Baron Volsung, www.rhfweb.com/baron Making a difference one person at a time Get informed. Inform others -------------------------------1145042653 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Just last night being the day before good Friday, as I watched the= Fisher King movie starring Robin Williams I noticed some associations=20= in the movie with the quest to start companies to develop flying saucer spac= e ships and space travel. 
 
Thunderstorms were created above my house while I watched the movie&nbs= p;as if Zeus or Odin as the Lord God was watching it with me saying I was th= e one who could get the Grail.  I noticed that many of the events that=20= occurred in my life and still are occurring are very similar to the characte= r that Robin Williams plays in the Fisher King, other than my role is along=20= another slightly different version associating the King Arthur legends with=20= the Norse and Greek Gods, and the Angelic Lionors novel by Barbara Ferry Joh= nson.  I noticed that the last name of the character that Rob= in Williams plays in the movie is Sagan similar to name Carl=20= Sagan who secretly knew the secrets behind the Nazi Flying saucers= and who represents the Grail Quest to seek the stars by means of space flig= ht.  
 
The role Robin Williams plays hints that the Grail King is si= ck since he has the burden of perhaps being one of the first to st= art companies or develop flying saucer technologies to make it to outer spac= e to heal the land and the king and the Lord God.  The name of the= character that creates the wound and also helps the Sagan character played=20= by Robin William's is Lucas similar to the Luke Skywalker image re= presenting in the Star Wars series a grail quest knight who is one of the fi= rst in his family to escape slavery and make it to outer space. If the=20= Grail King makes it to outer space and starts flying saucer companies, so wi= ll others, and then Earth and the Lord God and Grail King is healed.  I= n order to start flying saucer companies, the Grail King may also need the h= elp of a billionaire to finance the company, who in the Fisher King movie ha= s the grail cup.
 
In my version of the Grail Quest, it seems that I am playing both roles= , the Grail King and Lord God with Zeus's or Odin's body as my great gr= andancestor's, as King Arthur, and perhaps as Shakespeare's Hamlet= 's Father's Ghost reincarnating in my body as holograms forewarning me and s= eeking to be healed, and the Grail Quest Knight as Apollo and Thor playing a= role similar to Hamlet and Parsifal representing my true self underneath th= e holograms.
 
I also noticed that in the Stephen King Dead Zone movie staring Christo= pher Walken played last Thursday, the role of the teacher played by Christop= her Walken asks one of his students to read from the Lionor's myth in the mo= vie, hinting that the Angelic Lionors Arthurian royal line may be the r= oyal path that creates a better future for Earth, and avoids potential nucle= ar wars.
 
Best Regards,
 
Baron Volsung, www.rhfweb.com/baron
President Thomas D. Clark, Email form: http://www.rhf= web.com/emailform.html,
Architectural Engineers, http://www.rhfweb.com/ae
Star Haven Community Services, at http://www.rhfweb.com/sh
Radiation H= ealth Foundation Trust at http://www.rhfweb.com/
Baron Volsung, www.rhfweb.com/= baron

Making a difference one person at a time
Get informed. Inform= others
-------------------------------1145042653-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 13:00:09 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3EJxve9019366; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 12:59:57 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3EJxub4019352; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 12:59:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 12:59:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=hbZ6E9HGrj7dYqPvQJ2hNMhtSzeS3q61vJorg+0u20EhYJsj1yzf8Xtp+s9WawYQ; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064514195949163@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 13:59:49 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9404af97e0260982976b91f423f7cbec374350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.82 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67580 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Starting from scratch, Michel. Attractive forces acting on the electron at or near the earth's surface. 1, At the Bohr Radius 8.24e-8 newton 2, Attached to an H2O molecule 6.4e-11 newtons 3, The earth's fair weather field 2.0e-17 newtons 4, The earth's gravity field attractive 8.9e-30 newtons, 5, or could it be gravity repelled 8.9e-30 newtons? In the latter case, if it is released in an evacuated vertical tube the direction of force, 4, or 5, can be determined, provided the tube is virtually free of extraneous electrical fields. Shining a pulse of light on a Cs-CsO film on a silver-plated foil placed on the bottom of the tube and looking for arrival of the electrons about 0.3 seconds or so later (3.0 meters/sec or so) using a faraday cup tied to an electrometer capable of femto-coulomb or femto-ampere currents (and the LED or other Photon source) at the top. If no such charge or current is detected, then gravity attracts electrons. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Starting from scratch, Michel.
 
Attractive forces acting on the electron at or near the earth's surface.
 
1, At the Bohr Radius  8.24e-8 newton
2, Attached to an H2O molecule 6.4e-11 newtons
3, The earth's fair weather field  2.0e-17 newtons
4, The earth's gravity field attractive 8.9e-30 newtons,
 5, or could it be gravity repelled 8.9e-30 newtons?
 
In the latter case, if it is released in an evacuated vertical
tube the direction of force,  4, or 5, can be determined, provided
the tube is virtually free of extraneous electrical fields.
 
Shining a pulse of light on a Cs-CsO film on a silver-plated
foil placed on the bottom of the tube and looking for
arrival of the electrons about 0.3 seconds or so later
(3.0 meters/sec or so) using a faraday cup tied to an electrometer
capable of femto-coulomb or femto-ampere currents
(and the LED or other Photon source) at the top.
 
If no such charge or current is detected, then gravity attracts
electrons.
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 13:17:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3EKHaU4025579; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 13:17:37 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3EKHW1o025547; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 13:17:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 13:17:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060414161657.03cd8b08@mindspring.com> Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060414160807.03d4df10@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 16:17:05 -0400 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: New and updated papers uploaded Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67581 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: See: http://lenr-canr.org/FilesByDate.htm Additions include a paper from McKubre, plus a better version of his ICCF-2 paper. The paper by Zhang had the wrong date, but it is otherwise unchanged. Another one from Zhang about the explosion will be available soon. Someone who can read Japanese should check out this to be sure the format is okay: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MizunoTjyouonkaku.pdf Note the cute picture of young Dr. Oshima on p. 41! And look at him now, on p. 40. Warning: This is what cold fusion research does to you. It robs you of your youth. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 15:35:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3EMZ1Qu006384; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 15:35:01 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3EMYwp3006357; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 15:34:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 15:34:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=ix.netcom.com; b=GDJI3VLTOd2HWbtC2u4iZXMbQyBOFxOa7AzwJdjpAi4ZxIIMc/db9GxxlYn92RpU; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064514223525880@ix.netcom.com> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: aki@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.1.47.0 (Windows) From: "" To: "vortex-l" Subject: FW: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday April 14, 2006 Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 15:35:25 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: c4cc7f5f697e8746f66dc3a06d5924d807641c95d7d8e9f447e9d6393c89c6797ef9f80aaf77e5a4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 216.175.99.229 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67582 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: forward from aki@ix.netcom.com (Akira Kawasaki) > [Original Message] > From: What's New > To: > Date: 4/14/2006 1:11:49 PM Subject: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday April 14, 2006 WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 14 Apr 06 Washington, DC 1. LUNACY: THE "LUNAR CRATER OBSERVATION AND SENSING SATELLITE." The excitement is palpable at NASA. If all goes well, Americans could be landing on the Moon in 2018, just 49 years after the Apollo 11 moon landing. Aside from a spacecraft to get us there, all we need is a reason, and NASA is working on that. In 2009, an SUV-sized spacecraft will smash into the Moon's south pole, making a big hole and sending up a plume of debris. The last time they tried this was the 1999 Lunar Prospector. It didn't kick up squat, so they're gonna hit it harder. What they hope to see in the plume is water. Water would allow astronauts to "live off the land," and "could be used to make fuel," Michael Griffin, the NASA Administrator explained. They are free to use my faucet if it would solve the fuel crisis here on Earth. 2. ISS: COSMONAUT TO HIT THE GOLF SHOT HEARD 'ROUND THE WORLD. The new Commander of the space station, Pavel Vinogradov, plans to drive a gold-plated golf ball from a special platform during an August space walk. Element 21 Golf, a Canadian company, paid the Russian space agency an undisclosed amount to allow the stunt. It would commemorate the 35th anniversary of a golf shot Allan Shepard hit on the Moon during Apollo 14. Taxpayers were not amused by Shepard's antics, which appeared to trivialize the space program, but on the space station it seems appropriate. 3. MIRACLE MEDICINE: WILL GOING TO CHURCH HELP YOU LIVE LONGER? The Journal of the American Board of Family Medicine published a study by Dr. Daniel Hall of the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center who found that people who attend weekly religious services live longer. Dr. Hall, who is also an Episcopal priest, compared average church contributions to the cost of membership in Bally's or to taking Lipitor to lower cholesterol, and concludes religion is more cost effective. Everybody pays the same for Lipitor, but they put different amounts in the collection plate. What is the correlation between money individuals put in the plate and their longevity? Dr. Richard Sloan of Columbia University Medical Center, author of a forthcoming book, "Blind Faith: The Unholy Alliance of Religion and Medicine," called the study "silly." The most obvious confounder is that as their health fails people are able to attend church less. The obvious solution is to take money out of the plate to pay for membership in a gym. 4. DOE: SECRETARY OF ENERGY BODMAN DISBANDS HIS ADVISORY BOARD. He has never met with SEAB. A DOE spokesman explained that the Secretary, a chemical engineer, has "a science background," and doesn't need advice. Besides, President Bush doesn't have a science advisor, and look at how well things are going. When Ronald Regan became President, he initially declined to name a Science Advisor. He explained that he knew an engineer back in California he could call if anything ever came up. THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND. Opinions are the author's and not necessarily shared by the University of Maryland, but they should be. --- Archives of What's New can be found at http://www.bobpark.org What's New is moving to a different listserver and our subscription process has changed. To change your subscription status please visit this link: http://listserv.umd.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=bobparks-whatsnew&A=1 From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 16:22:12 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3ENM00e020526; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 16:22:00 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3ENLw8R020501; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 16:21:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 16:21:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <017d01c6601a$3cc92830$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-220064514195949163@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 01:21:50 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67583 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > If no such charge or current is detected, then gravity attracts > electrons. No Fred I disagree with your conclusion, there could be no electron arriving at 0.3s simply because they all had sufficient velocity to arrive earlier. Or there could be some, but gravity force is classically downwards and they were about to fall back If you don't know the initial velocities you can't conclude, hence my suggestion to use the "volunteers" whose initial velocity we know very precisely (1/2*m*v0^2=h*nu-W) and can make as small as desired with a retarding electrode (1/2*m*v0^2=h*nu-W-e*V), and whose flight time will depend on the direction of gravity. Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 9:59 PM Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons > Starting from scratch, Michel. > > Attractive forces acting on the electron at or near the earth's surface. > > 1, At the Bohr Radius 8.24e-8 newton > 2, Attached to an H2O molecule 6.4e-11 newtons > 3, The earth's fair weather field 2.0e-17 newtons > 4, The earth's gravity field attractive 8.9e-30 newtons, > 5, or could it be gravity repelled 8.9e-30 newtons? > > In the latter case, if it is released in an evacuated vertical > tube the direction of force, 4, or 5, can be determined, provided > the tube is virtually free of extraneous electrical fields. > > Shining a pulse of light on a Cs-CsO film on a silver-plated > foil placed on the bottom of the tube and looking for > arrival of the electrons about 0.3 seconds or so later > (3.0 meters/sec or so) using a faraday cup tied to an electrometer > capable of femto-coulomb or femto-ampere currents > (and the LED or other Photon source) at the top. > > If no such charge or current is detected, then gravity attracts > electrons. > > Fred From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 18:14:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3F1EDlr021318; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 18:14:13 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3F1EBwU021291; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 18:14:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 18:14:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=dIjp1ZlcT3WW7vcVkS+TW/mqCrAPwxz8o3NNfooGk9sKc0eMkhudwECY1AIZ5uRk; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200646151146778@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 19:14:06 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940b6ff3a1873856989a1ff73ed47ce4ad8350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.226 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67584 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: It really doesn't matter what their velocities are, if enough for those that arrive and get trapped in the Faraday cup collector charge a 0.1 picofarad capacitor enough to get a measurable voltage off it with a DVM. That should strongly suggest that gravity repels electrons. Fred > [Original Message] > From: Michel Jullian > To: > Date: 4/14/2006 5:22:38 PM > Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons > > > If no such charge or current is detected, then gravity attracts > > electrons. > > No Fred I disagree with your conclusion, there could be no electron arriving > at 0.3s simply because they all had sufficient velocity to arrive earlier. > Or there could be some, but gravity force is classically downwards and they > were about to fall back > > If you don't know the initial velocities you can't conclude, hence my > suggestion to use the "volunteers" whose initial velocity we know very > precisely (1/2*m*v0^2=h*nu-W) and can make as small as desired with a > retarding electrode (1/2*m*v0^2=h*nu-W-e*V), and whose flight time will > depend on the direction of gravity. > > Michel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frederick Sparber" > To: "vortex-l" > Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 9:59 PM > Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons > > > > Starting from scratch, Michel. > > > > Attractive forces acting on the electron at or near the earth's surface. > > > > 1, At the Bohr Radius 8.24e-8 newton > > 2, Attached to an H2O molecule 6.4e-11 newtons > > 3, The earth's fair weather field 2.0e-17 newtons > > 4, The earth's gravity field attractive 8.9e-30 newtons, > > 5, or could it be gravity repelled 8.9e-30 newtons? > > > > In the latter case, if it is released in an evacuated vertical > > tube the direction of force, 4, or 5, can be determined, provided > > the tube is virtually free of extraneous electrical fields. > > > > Shining a pulse of light on a Cs-CsO film on a silver-plated > > foil placed on the bottom of the tube and looking for > > arrival of the electrons about 0.3 seconds or so later > > (3.0 meters/sec or so) using a faraday cup tied to an electrometer > > capable of femto-coulomb or femto-ampere currents > > (and the LED or other Photon source) at the top. > > > > If no such charge or current is detected, then gravity attracts > > electrons. > > > > Fred From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 14 18:19:06 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3F1Ixpg023683; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 18:18:59 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3F1Iv2K023665; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 18:18:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 18:18:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=flu+OnVjhrJ9zEoDEbSbjDEBhMNU/gSyjfsf3MwyIgtmkYvGBj/sBKgCrC5jaEb7; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200646151185674@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: FWD: Re: Writing examples Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 19:18:56 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94057e566fea41a1b8f2e7a820ff36bfb2f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.226 Resent-Message-ID: <700DaC.A.txF.AoEQEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67585 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Why English Teachers Die Young" - Actual analogies and metaphors found in high school essays. 1. Her face was a perfect oval, like a circle that had its two sides gently compressed by a Thigh Master. 2. His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking appliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free. 3. He spoke with the wisdom that can only come from experience, like a guy who went blind because he looked at a solar eclipse without one of those boxes with a pinhole in it and now goes around the country speaking at high schools about the dangers of looking at a solar eclipse without one of those boxes with a pinhole in it. 4. She grew on him like she was a colony of E. Coli, and he was room-temperature Canadian beef. 5. She had a deep, throaty, genuine laugh, like that sound a dog makes just before it throws up. 6. Her vocabulary was as bad as, like, whatever. 7. He was as tall as a six-foot, three-inch tree. 8. The revelation that his marriage of 30 years had disintegrated because of his wife's infidelity came as a rude shock, like a surcharge at a formerly surcharge-free ATM. 9. The little boat gently drifted across the pond exactly the way a bowling ball wouldn't. 10. McBride fell 12 stories, hitting the pavement like a Hefty bag filled with vegetable soup. 11. From the attic came an unearthly howl. The whole scene had an eerie, surreal quality, like when you're on vacation in another city and Jeopardy comes on at 7:00 p.m. instead of 7:30. 12. Her hair glistened in the rain like a nose hair after a sneeze. 13. The hailstones leaped from the pavement, just like maggots when you fry them in hot grease. 14.. Long separated by cruel fate, the star- crossed lovers raced across the grassy field toward each other like two freight trains, one having left Cleveland at 6:36 p.m. traveling at 55 mph, the other from Topeka at 4:19 p.m. at a speed of 35 mph. 15. They lived in a typical suburban neighborhood with picket fences that resembled Nancy Kerrigan's teeth. 16. John and Mary had never met. They were like two hummingbirds who had also never met. 17. He fell for her like his heart was a mob informant, and she was the East River. 18. Even in his last years, Granddad had a mind like a steel trap, only one that had been left out so long, it had rusted shut. 19. Shots rang out, as shots are wont to do. 20. The plan was simple, like my brother-in-law Phil. But unlike Phil, this plan just might work. 21. The young fighter had a hungry look, the kind you get from not eating for a while. 22. He was as lame as a duck. Not the metaphorical lame duck, either, but a real duck that was actually lame, maybe from stepping on a land mine or something. 23. The ballerina rose gracefully en Pointe and extended one slender leg behind her, like a dog at a fire hydrant. 24. It was an American tradition, like fathers chasing kids around with power tools. 25. He was deeply in love. When she spoke, he thought he heard bells, as if she were a garbage truck backing up. 26. She walked into my office like a centipede with 98 missing legs. ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Why English Teachers Die Young" - Actual analogies and metaphors found in
high school essays.

1. Her face was a perfect oval, like a circle that had its two sides
gently compressed by a Thigh Master.

2. His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking appliances like
underpants in a dryer without Cling Free.

3. He spoke with the wisdom that can only come from experience, like a guy
who went blind because he looked at a solar eclipse without one of those
boxes with a pinhole in it and now goes around the country speaking at
high schools about the dangers of looking at a solar eclipse without one
of those boxes with a pinhole in it.

4. She grew on him like she was a colony of E. Coli, and he was
room-temperature Canadian beef.

5. She had a deep, throaty, genuine laugh, like that sound a dog makes
just before it throws up.

6. Her vocabulary was as bad as, like, whatever.

7. He was as tall as a six-foot, three-inch tree.

8. The revelation that his marriage of 30 years had disintegrated because
of his wife's infidelity came as a rude shock, like a surcharge at a
formerly surcharge-free ATM.

9. The little boat gently drifted across the pond exactly the way a
bowling ball wouldn't.

10. McBride fell 12 stories, hitting the pavement like a Hefty bag filled
with vegetable soup.

11. From the attic came an unearthly howl. The whole scene had an eerie,
surreal quality, like when you're on vacation in another city and Jeopardy
comes on at 7:00 p.m. instead of 7:30.

12. Her hair glistened in the rain like a nose hair after a sneeze.

13. The hailstones leaped from the pavement, just like maggots when you
fry them in hot grease.

14.. Long separated by cruel fate, the star- crossed lovers raced across
the grassy field toward each other like two freight trains, one ! having < BR>left Cleveland at 6:36 p.m. traveling at 55 mph, the other from Topeka at
4:19 p.m. at a speed of 35 mph.

15. They lived in a typical suburban neighborhood with picket fences that
resembled Nancy Kerrigan's teeth.

16. John and Mary had never met. They were like two hummingbirds who had
also never met.

17. He fell for her like his heart was a mob informant, and she was the
East River.

18. Even in his last years, Granddad had a mind like a steel trap, only
one that had been left out so long, it had rusted shut.

19. Shots rang out, as shots are wont to do.

20. The plan was simple, like my brother-in-law Phil. But unlike Phil,
this plan just might work.

21. The young fighter had a hungry look, the kind you get from not eating
for a while.

22. He was as lame as a duck. Not the metaphorical lame duck, either, but
a real duck that was actually lame, maybe from stepping on a land mine or
something.

23. The ballerina rose gracefully en Pointe and extended one slender leg
behind her, like a dog at a fire hydrant.

24. It was an American tradition, like fathers chasing kids around with
power tools.

25. He was deeply in love. When she spoke, he thought he heard bells, as
if she were a garbage truck backing up.

26. She walked into my office like a centipede with 98 missing legs.
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 15 04:03:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3FB3d3X004059; Sat, 15 Apr 2006 04:03:40 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3FB3bSI004034; Sat, 15 Apr 2006 04:03:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 04:03:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <021101c6607c$4024c2c0$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-2200646151146778@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 13:03:39 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67586 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I am not going to fight with you, as I said it is YOUR thought experiment :) But supposing you were right on this point, would it hurt to also know the velocities and to have a quantitative measurement rather than a qualitative one? Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 3:14 AM Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons > It really doesn't matter what their velocities are, if enough for those > that arrive and get trapped in the Faraday cup collector charge a 0.1 > picofarad > capacitor enough to get a measurable voltage off it with a DVM. > That should strongly suggest that gravity repels electrons. > > Fred > > >> [Original Message] >> From: Michel Jullian >> To: >> Date: 4/14/2006 5:22:38 PM >> Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons >> >> > If no such charge or current is detected, then gravity attracts >> > electrons. >> >> No Fred I disagree with your conclusion, there could be no electron > arriving >> at 0.3s simply because they all had sufficient velocity to arrive >> earlier. >> Or there could be some, but gravity force is classically downwards and > they >> were about to fall back >> >> If you don't know the initial velocities you can't conclude, hence my >> suggestion to use the "volunteers" whose initial velocity we know very >> precisely (1/2*m*v0^2=h*nu-W) and can make as small as desired with a >> retarding electrode (1/2*m*v0^2=h*nu-W-e*V), and whose flight time will >> depend on the direction of gravity. >> >> Michel >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Frederick Sparber" >> To: "vortex-l" >> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 9:59 PM >> Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons >> >> >> > Starting from scratch, Michel. >> > >> > Attractive forces acting on the electron at or near the earth's >> > surface. >> > >> > 1, At the Bohr Radius 8.24e-8 newton >> > 2, Attached to an H2O molecule 6.4e-11 newtons >> > 3, The earth's fair weather field 2.0e-17 newtons >> > 4, The earth's gravity field attractive 8.9e-30 newtons, >> > 5, or could it be gravity repelled 8.9e-30 newtons? >> > >> > In the latter case, if it is released in an evacuated vertical >> > tube the direction of force, 4, or 5, can be determined, provided >> > the tube is virtually free of extraneous electrical fields. >> > >> > Shining a pulse of light on a Cs-CsO film on a silver-plated >> > foil placed on the bottom of the tube and looking for >> > arrival of the electrons about 0.3 seconds or so later >> > (3.0 meters/sec or so) using a faraday cup tied to an electrometer >> > capable of femto-coulomb or femto-ampere currents >> > (and the LED or other Photon source) at the top. >> > >> > If no such charge or current is detected, then gravity attracts >> > electrons. >> > >> > Fred > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 15 05:02:55 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3FC2gTx022466; Sat, 15 Apr 2006 05:02:43 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3FC2eua022442; Sat, 15 Apr 2006 05:02:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 05:02:40 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=ijBGCeFNCiwbXZC2u54jbJnNES93h2jc8atYlEbwV7VIDUI/I2B5wKHJXHGJHdfQ; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006461512230501@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 06:02:30 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94079f1ffb0d25d0a4167ff1bb0a04a6f85350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.23 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67587 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michel Jullian wrote. > > I am not going to fight with you, as I said it is YOUR thought experiment :) > One needs to avoid fights this close to the full moon. :-) Your points are worthy of serious thought, Michel. However, one could "sample" the (arriving electrons?) by sequentially switching in and charging capacitors, then measuring their potential, or keeping a single capacitor grounded for about 0.3 seconds/meter of vertical height. > > But supposing you were right on this point, would it hurt to also know the > velocities and to have a quantitative measurement rather than a qualitative > one? > If there is any qualitative indication that gravity repels electrons, verification would mandate the eperiments that you suggest. In the interim, a meter or two of 4 inch PVC sewer pipe, a vaccum pump capable of less than 50 millitorr, and some home brew ingenuity. :-) Thanks for the constructive feedback. When I argue with myself, invariably I always end up agreeing with myself. Fred > Michel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frederick Sparber" > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 3:14 AM > Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons > > > > It really doesn't matter what their velocities are, if enough for those > > that arrive and get trapped in the Faraday cup collector charge a 0.1 > > picofarad > > capacitor enough to get a measurable voltage off it with a DVM. > > That should strongly suggest that gravity repels electrons. > > > > Fred > > > > > >> [Original Message] > >> From: Michel Jullian > >> To: > >> Date: 4/14/2006 5:22:38 PM > >> Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons > >> > >> > If no such charge or current is detected, then gravity attracts > >> > electrons. > >> > >> No Fred I disagree with your conclusion, there could be no electron > > arriving > >> at 0.3s simply because they all had sufficient velocity to arrive > >> earlier. > >> Or there could be some, but gravity force is classically downwards and > > they > >> were about to fall back > >> > >> If you don't know the initial velocities you can't conclude, hence my > >> suggestion to use the "volunteers" whose initial velocity we know very > >> precisely (1/2*m*v0^2=h*nu-W) and can make as small as desired with a > >> retarding electrode (1/2*m*v0^2=h*nu-W-e*V), and whose flight time will > >> depend on the direction of gravity. > >> > >> Michel > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Frederick Sparber" > >> To: "vortex-l" > >> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 9:59 PM > >> Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons > >> > >> > >> > Starting from scratch, Michel. > >> > > >> > Attractive forces acting on the electron at or near the earth's > >> > surface. > >> > > >> > 1, At the Bohr Radius 8.24e-8 newton > >> > 2, Attached to an H2O molecule 6.4e-11 newtons > >> > 3, The earth's fair weather field 2.0e-17 newtons > >> > 4, The earth's gravity field attractive 8.9e-30 newtons, > >> > 5, or could it be gravity repelled 8.9e-30 newtons? > >> > > >> > In the latter case, if it is released in an evacuated vertical > >> > tube the direction of force, 4, or 5, can be determined, provided > >> > the tube is virtually free of extraneous electrical fields. > >> > > >> > Shining a pulse of light on a Cs-CsO film on a silver-plated > >> > foil placed on the bottom of the tube and looking for > >> > arrival of the electrons about 0.3 seconds or so later > >> > (3.0 meters/sec or so) using a faraday cup tied to an electrometer > >> > capable of femto-coulomb or femto-ampere currents > >> > (and the LED or other Photon source) at the top. > >> > > >> > If no such charge or current is detected, then gravity attracts > >> > electrons. > >> > > >> > Fred > > > > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 15 05:16:24 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3FCGDel027443; Sat, 15 Apr 2006 05:16:13 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3FCGBxh027423; Sat, 15 Apr 2006 05:16:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 05:16:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <022301c66086$6369cc80$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-22006461512230501@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 14:16:13 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67588 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 2:02 PM Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons > Michel Jullian wrote. >> >> I am not going to fight with you, as I said it is YOUR thought experiment > :) >> > One needs to avoid fights this close to the full moon. :-) Ah, THAT's why the discussion was getting so animated ;) > > Your points are worthy of serious thought, Michel. > > However, one could "sample" the (arriving electrons?) by sequentially > switching in and charging capacitors, then measuring their potential, or > keeping a single capacitor grounded for about 0.3 seconds/meter of > vertical height. Indeed this would be quite easy. >> >> But supposing you were right on this point, would it hurt to also know > the >> velocities and to have a quantitative measurement rather than a > qualitative >> one? >> > If there is any qualitative indication that gravity repels electrons, > verification > would mandate the eperiments that you suggest. > In the interim, a meter or two of 4 inch PVC sewer pipe, a vaccum pump > capable of > less than 50 millitorr, and some home brew ingenuity. :-) PVC may not be the best electrical conductor one could dream of :) > > Thanks for the constructive feedback. One never gets enough of this. > > When I argue with myself, invariably I always end up agreeing with myself. Same here :) Michel > > Fred > >> Michel >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Frederick Sparber" >> To: >> Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 3:14 AM >> Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons >> >> >> > It really doesn't matter what their velocities are, if enough for those >> > that arrive and get trapped in the Faraday cup collector charge a 0.1 >> > picofarad >> > capacitor enough to get a measurable voltage off it with a DVM. >> > That should strongly suggest that gravity repels electrons. >> > >> > Fred >> > >> > >> >> [Original Message] >> >> From: Michel Jullian >> >> To: >> >> Date: 4/14/2006 5:22:38 PM >> >> Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons >> >> >> >> > If no such charge or current is detected, then gravity attracts >> >> > electrons. >> >> >> >> No Fred I disagree with your conclusion, there could be no electron >> > arriving >> >> at 0.3s simply because they all had sufficient velocity to arrive >> >> earlier. >> >> Or there could be some, but gravity force is classically downwards and >> > they >> >> were about to fall back >> >> >> >> If you don't know the initial velocities you can't conclude, hence my >> >> suggestion to use the "volunteers" whose initial velocity we know very >> >> precisely (1/2*m*v0^2=h*nu-W) and can make as small as desired with a >> >> retarding electrode (1/2*m*v0^2=h*nu-W-e*V), and whose flight time >> >> will >> >> depend on the direction of gravity. >> >> >> >> Michel >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Frederick Sparber" >> >> To: "vortex-l" >> >> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 9:59 PM >> >> Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons >> >> >> >> >> >> > Starting from scratch, Michel. >> >> > >> >> > Attractive forces acting on the electron at or near the earth's >> >> > surface. >> >> > >> >> > 1, At the Bohr Radius 8.24e-8 newton >> >> > 2, Attached to an H2O molecule 6.4e-11 newtons >> >> > 3, The earth's fair weather field 2.0e-17 newtons >> >> > 4, The earth's gravity field attractive 8.9e-30 newtons, >> >> > 5, or could it be gravity repelled 8.9e-30 newtons? >> >> > >> >> > In the latter case, if it is released in an evacuated vertical >> >> > tube the direction of force, 4, or 5, can be determined, provided >> >> > the tube is virtually free of extraneous electrical fields. >> >> > >> >> > Shining a pulse of light on a Cs-CsO film on a silver-plated >> >> > foil placed on the bottom of the tube and looking for >> >> > arrival of the electrons about 0.3 seconds or so later >> >> > (3.0 meters/sec or so) using a faraday cup tied to an electrometer >> >> > capable of femto-coulomb or femto-ampere currents >> >> > (and the LED or other Photon source) at the top. >> >> > >> >> > If no such charge or current is detected, then gravity attracts >> >> > electrons. >> >> > >> >> > Fred >> > >> > >> > > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 15 06:46:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3FDkbjY025095; Sat, 15 Apr 2006 06:46:37 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3FDkZDE025085; Sat, 15 Apr 2006 06:46:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 06:46:35 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 09:46:35 -0400 Message-Id: <8C82EAA25515703-2074-3BA6@mblkn-m17.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <410-22006461512230501@earthlink.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <410-22006461512230501@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.135 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67589 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Frederick Sparber If there is any qualitative indication that gravity repels electrons, verification would mandate the eperiments that you suggest. <><><><><><><> In your gedanken, how would you distinguish between the action of gravity and possible electrostatic repulsion from a net positive charge on the earth. Or, for that matter, an attractive force due to the net negative charge of the ionsphere? And the position of the moon could also cause an electrostatic effect. Terry happy keister! ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 15 07:22:18 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3FEM5lb007336; Sat, 15 Apr 2006 07:22:05 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3FEM3qD007319; Sat, 15 Apr 2006 07:22:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 07:22:03 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=t9dfQltYr7tlBOIs8XEri5iLGR2Fsostagl1m/8bgbj/+Ms+viDNVgAIqW5AeKlA; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006461514214750@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 08:21:47 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9406da0a8b1cd80507efe5855d8afa58860350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.165.166 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67590 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Actually the term "Electrogravity" is misleading, it should be more akin to an Ether-Energy Related Phenomenon. I can't come up with the name for that, but if the 5.38e41 joule "positive" energy of the earth (at it's surface) repels the 8.19e-14 joule "negative energy" of the electron with a force of 8.9e-30 newtons: k * 5.38e41 * (- 8.19e-14)/6.38e6^2 = 8.9e-30 newtons Numerically at least, k must equal 8.235e-45 in some strange units. Thus at it's surface the earth should exert a force of 4.433-3 newtons per joule of Hal Puthoff et "Polarizable Vacuum Negative Energy" stored between the spheres of a concentric sphere vacuum capacitor or the cylinders of a cylindrical vacuum capacitor. At electric field intensities of ~ 210 Kilovolts/cm (~ 21 Megavolts/meter) up to 2,211 joules of "Negative Energy" per cubic meter for an antigravity force of 9.8 newtons (or 1.0 Kg) can be generated. Fred From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 15 07:49:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3FEnJjP016486; Sat, 15 Apr 2006 07:49:20 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3FEnII1016471; Sat, 15 Apr 2006 07:49:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 07:49:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=tsG7M5JQ2OXkNLJ6rBN9xJFUo3KB5BsAh3UM1CZoMdmoOHK4m+OhR9fbAdlMllDr; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006461514498980@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 08:49:08 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9401590d9269683db4d0ac349396ec3707f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.165.248 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67591 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Terry writes. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Frederick Sparber > > If there is any qualitative indication that gravity repels electrons, > verification > would mandate the experiments that you suggest. > > <><><><><><><> > > In your gedanken, how would you distinguish between the action of > gravity and possible electrostatic repulsion from a net positive charge > on the earth. > Inside a metal tube and shielded test equipment, Terry? 0.5 gauss B field was considered. > > Or, for that matter, an attractive force due to the net negative charge > of the ionosphere? > The "fair weather" field is Positive wrt. the earth, ~ 120 volts/meter at sea level. > > And the position of the moon could also cause an electrostatic effect. > Gravity yes, electrostatic, no. Other than energy our Electrical/Magnetic Fields are Unrelated, unless you want to get into General Relativity, and the "Polarizable Vacuum" stuff. Fred > > Terry > > happy keister! > ___________________________________________________ > Try the New Netscape Mail Today! > Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List > http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 15 20:05:06 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3G34sHB029260; Sat, 15 Apr 2006 20:04:55 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3G34rrm029248; Sat, 15 Apr 2006 20:04:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 20:04:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 23:04:52 -0400 Message-Id: <8C82F19AAA5B28B-19E8-29271@mblkn-m19.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <410-22006461514498980@earthlink.net> <8C82EC3DF63EC93-2074-3F60@mblkn-m17.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <8C82EC3DF63EC93-2074-3F60@mblkn-m17.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Electrogravity & Proton Repulsion of Electrons Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.137 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3G34pcf029220 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67592 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message-----  From: Frederick Sparber    Inside a metal tube and shielded test equipment, Terry? 0.5 gauss B field  was considered.    <><><><><>    Shielded? Grounded?    <><><><><>    FS: The "fair weather" field is Positive wrt. the earth, ~ 120 volts/meter at  sea level.    <><><><><>    Yes, but the ionisphere polarity would vary between night and day.    <><><><><>    FS: Gravity yes, electrostatic, no.    <><><><><>    You don't think a charge would flow between the Earth and the Moon with a looooong extension cord?    Terry  ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 16 05:06:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3GC6Z6l024417; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 05:06:36 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3GC6XDx024397; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 05:06:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 05:06:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=UrED31V48aGET2yZHEM06A2d6paQ5gOWIwNQx9dkgaMK/IO1vXBz4pQDfDEEtznx; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <411-22006401612622947@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: The Permittron Ether Modulator Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 06:06:22 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9407361d542aee71eb1a4af1f843a320e6a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.172 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67593 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Taken with license from Permittivity. :-) "A physical quantity that describes how an electric field affects and is affected by a medium. " The permittivity of free space () is 8.8541878176x10-12 F/m. Thus permittivity is a measure of the ability of a material to resist the formation of an electric field within it. UNITS: 8.85418781e-12 Farad per meter 8.85418781e-12 Coulomb^2 per Newton per Meter^2 Across the Ether or Vacuum Electromotive Force or Fotential V (volts) times permittivity equals Charge ( Q ). Vacuum Capacity = ( eo ) IOW, Q = CV ( Coulombs ) Energy W = 1/2 CV^2 ( Joule ) Separation Distance S = ( Meters ) Force F = 1/2 CV^2/S ( Newtons ) Electric Field Intensity E = ( Volts per Meter) Energy Density = Joules/Meter^3 Putting a high enough potenial and energy density on a pair of plates separated by a distance S capable of changing Vacuum Capacity ( eo ) should make the "Permittron" Modulate the Ether which should make Strange things happen when W/Meter^3 gets to 2210 joules/meter^3 and V/M is = or > 10 million. At the Earth's Surface: The Antigravity Force should be 4.433e-3 Newtons per Joule stored in the Ether/Vacuum Modulator. In order to get back down to earth, the "invested" energy has to be dumped, so there is No Free Lunch. :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Taken with license from Permittivity.   :-)
 
"A physical quantity that describes how an electric field affects and is affected by a medium. "
The permittivity of free space (\varepsilon_0) is 8.8541878176x10-12 F/m.
Thus permittivity is a measure of the ability of a material to resist the formation of an electric field within it.
UNITS:
8.85418781e-12  Farad per meter
8.85418781e-12 Coulomb^2 per Newton per Meter^2
 
Across the Ether or Vacuum Electromotive Force or Fotential V (volts)
times permittivity equals Charge ( Q ).
 
Vacuum Capacity = ( eo )
IOW,  Q = CV ( Coulombs )
Energy W = 1/2 CV^2 ( Joule )
Separation Distance S =  ( Meters )
Force F =  1/2 CV^2/S  ( Newtons )
Electric Field Intensity E = ( Volts per Meter)
Energy Density = Joules/Meter^3
 
Putting a high enough potenial and energy density on a pair of plates separated
by a distance S  capable of changing Vacuum Capacity ( eo ) should
make the "Permittron" Modulate the Ether which should make Strange
things happen when W/Meter^3 gets to 2210 joules/meter^3 and
V/M is  = or > 10 million. 
At the Earth's Surface:
The Antigravity Force should be 4.433e-3 Newtons per Joule
stored in the Ether/Vacuum Modulator.
In order to get back down to earth, the "invested" energy
has to be dumped, so there is No Free Lunch. :-)
 
Fred
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- ------=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: image/png; name="194e6ffe4e750045519c0b272c482f35.png" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: 194e6ffe4e750045519c0b272c482f35.png Content-Id: <410-220064016125557171@13071999> iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAABQAAAAPCAAAAADB87CJAAAACXBIWXMAAAB4AAAAeACd9VpgAAAA eUlEQVQY03XQCw3AIAwE0LNQC7OAhVqoBSxgYRawgAUs1AIWsMD4LQsLNIGEl/QuAWUzOGJyBmTz gp5DBa8LUt6s2+gg7aEMThPVCmxDoyWagcHNLeV68cDrjVRqBRPvpiGNrHlUCJBYFvymZ8Yf1vbe sKAnSDh9yAMRSQG4OoPpMAAAADx0RVh0Q29tbWVudAAgSW1hZ2UgZ2VuZXJhdGVkIGJ5IEdOVSBH aG9zdHNjcmlwdCAoZGV2aWNlPXBubXJhdykKzMy2hQAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== ------=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 16 05:40:16 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3GCe3Le003247; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 05:40:03 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3GCe1iI003211; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 05:40:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 05:40:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=nX7aO+w1mtC5b+TBR94eFkGGN8ohwTqosmGG8sRsfwTZTqvbpM+BHZzS8EA/DDD2; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <411-220064016123954992@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: The Permittron Ether Modulator Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 06:39:54 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9405dfc7a293e9f288034008ab44d8eeb91350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.239 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67594 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII This might help. :-) http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/topics/Electromagnetism.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/16/2006 6:07:08 AM Subject: Re: The Permittron Ether Modulator Taken with license from Permittivity. :-) "A physical quantity that describes how an electric field affects and is affected by a medium. " The permittivity of free space () is 8.8541878176x10-12 F/m. Thus permittivity is a measure of the ability of a material to resist the formation of an electric field within it. UNITS: 8.85418781e-12 Farad per meter 8.85418781e-12 Coulomb^2 per Newton per Meter^2 Across the Ether or Vacuum Electromotive Force or Fotential V (volts) times permittivity equals Charge ( Q ). Vacuum Capacity = ( eo ) IOW, Q = CV ( Coulombs ) Energy W = 1/2 CV^2 ( Joule ) Separation Distance S = ( Meters ) Force F = 1/2 CV^2/S ( Newtons ) Electric Field Intensity E = ( Volts per Meter) Energy Density = Joules/Meter^3 Putting a high enough potenial and energy density on a pair of plates separated by a distance S capable of changing Vacuum Capacity ( eo ) should make the "Permittron" Modulate the Ether which should make Strange things happen when W/Meter^3 gets to 2210 joules/meter^3 and V/M is = or > 10 million. At the Earth's Surface: The Antigravity Force should be 4.433e-3 Newtons per Joule stored in the Ether/Vacuum Modulator. In order to get back down to earth, the "invested" energy has to be dumped, so there is No Free Lunch. :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
This might help. :-)
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/16/2006 6:07:08 AM
Subject: Re: The Permittron Ether Modulator

Taken with license from Permittivity.   :-)
 
"A physical quantity that describes how an electric field affects and is affected by a medium. "
The permittivity of free space (\varepsilon_0) is 8.8541878176x10-12 F/m.
Thus permittivity is a measure of the ability of a material to resist the formation of an electric field within it.
UNITS:
8.85418781e-12  Farad per meter
8.85418781e-12 Coulomb^2 per Newton per Meter^2
 
Across the Ether or Vacuum Electromotive Force or Fotential V (volts)
times permittivity equals Charge ( Q ).
 
Vacuum Capacity = ( eo )
IOW,  Q = CV ( Coulombs )
Energy W = 1/2 CV^2 ( Joule )
Separation Distance S =  ( Meters )
Force F =  1/2 CV^2/S  ( Newtons )
Electric Field Intensity E = ( Volts per Meter)
Energy Density = Joules/Meter^3
 
Putting a high enough potenial and energy density on a pair of plates separated
by a distance S  capable of changing Vacuum Capacity ( eo ) should
make the "Permittron" Modulate the Ether which should make Strange
things happen when W/Meter^3 gets to 2210 joules/meter^3 and
V/M is  = or > 10 million. 
At the Earth's Surface:
The Antigravity Force should be 4.433e-3 Newtons per Joule
stored in the Ether/Vacuum Modulator.
In order to get back down to earth, the "invested" energy
has to be dumped, so there is No Free Lunch. :-)
 
Fred
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- ------=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: image/png; name="194e6ffe4e750045519c0b272c482f35.png" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: 194e6ffe4e750045519c0b272c482f35.png Content-Id: <410-22006401612395253940@13071999> iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAABQAAAAPCAAAAADB87CJAAAACXBIWXMAAAB4AAAAeACd9VpgAAAA eUlEQVQY03XQCw3AIAwE0LNQC7OAhVqoBSxgYRawgAUs1AIWsMD4LQsLNIGEl/QuAWUzOGJyBmTz gp5DBa8LUt6s2+gg7aEMThPVCmxDoyWagcHNLeV68cDrjVRqBRPvpiGNrHlUCJBYFvymZ8Yf1vbe sKAnSDh9yAMRSQG4OoPpMAAAADx0RVh0Q29tbWVudAAgSW1hZ2UgZ2VuZXJhdGVkIGJ5IEdOVSBH aG9zdHNjcmlwdCAoZGV2aWNlPXBubXJhdykKzMy2hQAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== ------=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 16 08:57:40 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3GFvSA1001777; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 08:57:28 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3GFvRNr001729; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 08:57:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 08:57:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <002601c6616e$72f65180$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Subject: Muonium Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 08:57:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67595 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here is your decorated egg-du-jour, and don't passover it without an open-minded look... as it could be a Faberge-in-the-rough. There has been a flurry of recent glossy fringe-journalism last week (tending more towards SciFi then real Sci) and going well beyond the credibility level of even LENR, which is focused on the so-called "Joe Cell" and its active agent "orgone." Unfortunately, this online effort is almost completely devoid of scientific factuality - but instead - overloaded with anecdote. Some of it is intriguing. Nevertheless, despite enormous and inevitable skepticism even from normally open-minded observers due to the subject matter, there could yet be some small grain of truth to it - a microgram of sodium-chloride, shall we say. Let me say first, that for having the courage to voice these ideas, Sterling Allan should be applauded, even if 99% of them turn out to be stinkers (how does orgone smell, anyway?). Onwards and upwards, plus-ultra. Here is the Wiki site for the muon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muon If you were educated in physics several generations ago, you may have trouble dropping the old name: mu meson, as the muon is not classified as a meson anymore. Unlike the electron, the muon anti-particle (+charge) is as likely to turn up in 3-space as the negative variety. The best feature of the +muon is it can pick up an electron and form an atom - which is know as "muonium." That part is fact. Some of the following speculation is loosely based on other factual details - together with speculation about the possible misidentification of many unknown "agents" which can turn up in energy anomalies, even "below-ground-state" hydrogen - but most likely, the putative "orgone". Neither the putative hydrino nor the putative orgone have been ruled out as being basically: a longer-lived form of muonium. Muons have a mass of 105.6 MeV/c2, which is 207 times the electron mass and have a lifetime in our 3-space of several microseconds (normally). Despite their short lifetime, we are surrounded by them, as they are constantly formed in large quantities by cosmic rays and get to the surface fast. Since - on decay - the associated neutrino ends up carrying away most of the excess energy, they are NOT a factor in "normal" accounting of energy - although it was noted as far back as 1989-90 that the fact that SLC Utah gets much more muon flux than does Boston due to the elevation and thin air - could be relevant to success in "certain" experiments. Since the interaction of the negative muon is similar to the electron, the muon can be thought of as an extremely heavy electron, however the (+)muon is more like a light proton. The muon atom, muonium, consisting of a +muon and a normal electron will be almost the identical size as monatomic hydrogen, but about 9 times less massive. These are normally short-lived but there is the possibility that if two of them are formed together simultaneously, so that a molecule is formed, then the lifetime will be extended - or that the QM waveform will be localized to such a degree that they can be appear "serially" in a succession of short lifetimes and appear as longer lived. So far - no evidence has been discovered in high energy experiments - where the lifetime of muonium is greatly extended. As for lower energy experiments - all one can say now is this: if the "Joe cell" proponents can "stand up and deliver" on some level of scientific validation, instead of the enormous level of hot air - then the best candidate material - which comes to mind at this writing- for the identity of the active modality of that cell (i.e. the "orgone" whatever that is) is known to physics today as an extension or a longer-lived version of molecular-muonium. In the mid 1970s, experimental physicists devised experiments to probe the weak interaction, and they expected the collision of neutrinos and protons to turn the neutrino into a muon, and the proton into debris. They were surprised to discover that two muons, one negatively and one positively charged, result from such collision. This generated a good deal of theoretical discussion, until a consensus emerged on how that positive muon comes about. The neutrino/proton collision produces not only proton debris (pions) and a negative muon, but a charm quark, and that quark soon decays into a strange quark, a muon neutrino, and a positive muon. Quite a large and strange quark, n'est pas? IF ... and let me warn that this is about the biggest IF ever put into circulation on any other date than April 1 ... OK, if any low energy device capable of "flipping" a large percentage of the normal neutrino flux on earth's surface - from the "massless" into the "massive" variety can be built (even with a great deal of luck) and if the device has a lot of available protons in it (i.e. H2O) then yes you will have some increased likelihood of neutrino-proton collisions, and the result could be a population of thermalized positive muons available in a compact space - small enough to form molecular-muonium and IF (multilayered big "ifs") that molecular-muonium agent had a life time in the millisecond range and increase the QM probability of secondary formation of same - then, yes, it could possibly be used as a power source. What would be the main characteristic of this power source? Well that is the interesting part, and were it not for that particular detail, then I would not have wasted my time with all of the above. The main characteristic of this putative power source ( derived from a neutrino "flipper" and molecular-muonium maker) - would be an ultimate "implosion" together with an electric charge - as the rather voluminous molecular-muonium decayed into neutrinos and electrons... This will not mean much to you until you explore the reports of the Joe Cell on an anecdotal level - but it is close to what happens and there is no reason to report it this odd way if it were not true. ... not that the anecdotal reports are "even" to the level of fringe-reliability (that of a good SciFi story) yet. But they are very... shall we say, Jules-Vernesque... in implications. Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 16 10:18:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3GHHvO6001234; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 10:17:58 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3GHHt2Z001214; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 10:17:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 10:17:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=ZltOH45R1M7MQIEzGv/OKwUr/eZ+d/zWX7c+xQ/a2TmcfoG03/OCvsGtj1Ds7GXu; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064016171739364@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: The Permittron Ether Modulator Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 11:17:39 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94004d2c55cc92de4f907436a12d6546f0e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.118 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67596 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Putting a high enough potential and energy density on a pair of plates separated by a distance S capable of changing Vacuum Capacity ( eo ) should make the "Permittron" Modulate the Ether which should make Strange things happen when W/Meter^3 gets to 2210 joules/meter^3 and V/M is = or >> 10 million. volts per meter At the Earth's Surface,the Antigravity Force should be 4.433e-3 Newtons per Joule (or 2210 joules per Kg AG Force) stored in the Ether/Vacuum Modulator. In order to get back down to earth, (literally) the "invested" energy has to be dumped, so there is No Free Lunch. A 10 MeV LINAC Electron Accelerator (much more power than needed): http://www.barc.ernet.in/btdg/appd/electron.html#a4 OTOH, not to be "out-orgone-ized" by Jones' Muonium, if dumping the charge on the plates/spheres-cylinders shows more energy 1/2 CV^2 + ZPE than the !/2 CV^2 input, into low voltage storage capacitors (used to "feed" the linac for charging the plates-spheres-cylinders and housekeeping power) would also add 1/2 CV^2 + ZPE into the loop. There just might be that Free Lunch, Jones has been seeking. :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Putting a high enough potential and energy density on a pair of plates separated
by a distance S  capable of changing Vacuum Capacity ( eo ) should
make the "Permittron" Modulate the Ether which should make Strange
things happen when W/Meter^3 gets to 2210 joules/meter^3 and
V/M is  = or >> 10 million. volts per meter 
 
At the Earth's Surface,the Antigravity Force should be 4.433e-3 Newtons per Joule
(or 2210 joules per Kg AG Force) stored in the Ether/Vacuum Modulator.
 
In order to get back down to earth, (literally) the "invested" energy
has to be dumped, so there is No Free Lunch.
 
A 10 MeV LINAC Electron Accelerator (much more power than needed):
 
 
OTOH, not to be "out-orgone-ized"  by Jones'  Muonium,
if dumping the charge on the plates/spheres-cylinders
shows more energy 1/2 CV^2 + ZPE  than the !/2 CV^2 input,
into low voltage storage capacitors (used to "feed" the linac for charging the
plates-spheres-cylinders and housekeeping power)
would also  add 1/2 CV^2 + ZPE into the loop.
 
There just might be that Free Lunch, Jones has been seeking.  :-)
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 16 10:24:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3GHO56L003592; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 10:24:06 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3GHO4nX003571; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 10:24:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 10:24:04 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [192.82.6.5] X-Originating-Email: [mgoldes@msn.com] X-Sender: mgoldes@msn.com In-Reply-To: <002601c6616e$72f65180$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Mark Goldes" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Muonium Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 10:23:57 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Apr 2006 17:24:02.0460 (UTC) FILETIME=[8E19D5C0:01C6617A] Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67597 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones, This makes my day. Wonderful! May it prove accurate... Mark >From: "Jones Beene" >Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com >To: "vortex" >Subject: Muonium Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 08:57:21 -0700 > >Here is your decorated egg-du-jour, and don't passover it without an >open-minded look... as it could be a Faberge-in-the-rough. > >There has been a flurry of recent glossy fringe-journalism last week >(tending more towards SciFi then real Sci) and going well beyond the >credibility level of even LENR, which is focused on the so-called "Joe >Cell" and its active agent "orgone." > >Unfortunately, this online effort is almost completely devoid of scientific >factuality - but instead - overloaded with anecdote. Some of it is >intriguing. Nevertheless, despite enormous and inevitable skepticism even >from normally open-minded observers due to the subject matter, there could >yet be some small grain of truth to it - a microgram of sodium-chloride, >shall we say. > >Let me say first, that for having the courage to voice these ideas, >Sterling Allan should be applauded, even if 99% of them turn out to be >stinkers (how does orgone smell, anyway?). Onwards and upwards, plus-ultra. > >Here is the Wiki site for the muon. >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muon > >If you were educated in physics several generations ago, you may have >trouble dropping the old name: mu meson, as the muon is not classified as a >meson anymore. Unlike the electron, the muon anti-particle (+charge) is as >likely to turn up in 3-space as the negative variety. The best feature of >the +muon is it can pick up an electron and form an atom - which is know as >"muonium." That part is fact. > >Some of the following speculation is loosely based on other factual details >- together with speculation about the possible misidentification of many >unknown "agents" which can turn up in energy anomalies, even >"below-ground-state" hydrogen - but most likely, the putative "orgone". >Neither the putative hydrino nor the putative orgone have been ruled out as >being basically: a longer-lived form of muonium. > >Muons have a mass of 105.6 MeV/c2, which is 207 times the electron mass and >have a lifetime in our 3-space of several microseconds (normally). Despite >their short lifetime, we are surrounded by them, as they are constantly >formed in large quantities by cosmic rays and get to the surface fast. >Since - on decay - the associated neutrino ends up carrying away most of >the excess energy, they are NOT a factor in "normal" accounting of energy - >although it was noted as far back as 1989-90 that the fact that SLC Utah >gets much more muon flux than does Boston due to the elevation and thin >air - could be relevant to success in "certain" experiments. > >Since the interaction of the negative muon is similar to the electron, the >muon can be thought of as an extremely heavy electron, however the (+)muon >is more like a light proton. > >The muon atom, muonium, consisting of a +muon and a normal electron will be >almost the identical size as monatomic hydrogen, but about 9 times less >massive. These are normally short-lived but there is the possibility that >if two of them are formed together simultaneously, so that a molecule is >formed, then the lifetime will be extended - or that the QM waveform will >be localized to such a degree that they can be appear "serially" in a >succession of short lifetimes and appear as longer lived. > >So far - no evidence has been discovered in high energy experiments - where >the lifetime of muonium is greatly extended. As for lower energy >experiments - all one can say now is this: if the "Joe cell" proponents can >"stand up and deliver" on some level of scientific validation, instead of >the enormous level of hot air - then the best candidate material - which >comes to mind at this writing- for the identity of the active modality of >that cell (i.e. the "orgone" whatever that is) is known to physics today as >an extension or a longer-lived version of molecular-muonium. > >In the mid 1970s, experimental physicists devised experiments to probe the >weak interaction, and they expected the collision of neutrinos and protons >to turn the neutrino into a muon, and the proton into debris. > >They were surprised to discover that two muons, one negatively and one >positively charged, result from such collision. This generated a good deal >of theoretical discussion, until a consensus emerged on how that positive >muon comes about. The neutrino/proton collision produces not only proton >debris (pions) and a negative muon, but a charm quark, and that quark soon >decays into a strange quark, a muon neutrino, and a positive muon. Quite a >large and strange quark, n'est pas? > >IF ... and let me warn that this is about the biggest IF ever put into >circulation on any other date than April 1 ... OK, if any low energy >device capable of "flipping" a large percentage of the normal neutrino flux >on earth's surface - from the "massless" into the "massive" variety can be >built (even with a great deal of luck) and if the device has a lot of >available protons in it (i.e. H2O) then yes you will have some increased >likelihood of neutrino-proton collisions, and the result could be a >population of thermalized positive muons available in a compact space - >small enough to form molecular-muonium and IF (multilayered big "ifs") that >molecular-muonium agent had a life time in the millisecond range and >increase the QM probability of secondary formation of same - then, yes, it >could possibly be used as a power source. > >What would be the main characteristic of this power source? Well that is >the interesting part, and were it not for that particular detail, then I >would not have wasted my time with all of the above. > >The main characteristic of this putative power source ( derived from a >neutrino "flipper" and molecular-muonium maker) - would be an ultimate >"implosion" together with an electric charge - as the rather voluminous >molecular-muonium decayed into neutrinos and electrons... This will not >mean much to you until you explore the reports of the Joe Cell on an >anecdotal level - but it is close to what happens and there is no reason to >report it this odd way if it were not true. > >... not that the anecdotal reports are "even" to the level of >fringe-reliability (that of a good SciFi story) yet. > >But they are very... shall we say, Jules-Vernesque... in implications. > >Jones > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 16 11:07:35 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3GI7PRK017102; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 11:07:26 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3GI7OmW017087; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 11:07:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 11:07:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=fLJgwqXQfuPr/1GSGchpB4MQbxDD35JrgDOb5GfSJgwKZegh7O0WQGPgelBULPbd; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006401618715799@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: The Permittron Ether Modulator Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 12:07:15 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940cf66a2181bc508b3adfc4637285f66ff350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.52 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67598 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII BTW, has anyone ever put a waterproofed resistor and capacitor hooked in series in a water bath and done calorimetry on them as they are charged and discharged from a power supply to check for ZPE pumped OU? Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/16/2006 11:18:35 AM Subject: Re: The Permittron Ether Modulator if dumping the charge on the plates/spheres-cylinders shows more energy 1/2 CV^2 + ZPE than the !/2 CV^2 input, into low voltage storage capacitors (used to "feed" the linac for charging the plates-spheres-cylinders and housekeeping power) would also add 1/2 CV^2 + ZPE into the loop. There just might be that Free Lunch, Jones has been seeking. :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
 
 
BTW, has anyone ever put a waterproofed resistor and capacitor
hooked in series in a water bath and done calorimetry
on them as they are charged and discharged from
a power supply to check for ZPE pumped OU?
 
Fred
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/16/2006 11:18:35 AM
Subject: Re: The Permittron Ether Modulator
 
if dumping the charge on the plates/spheres-cylinders
shows more energy 1/2 CV^2 + ZPE  than the !/2 CV^2 input,
into low voltage storage capacitors (used to "feed" the linac for charging the
plates-spheres-cylinders and housekeeping power)
would also  add 1/2 CV^2 + ZPE into the loop.
 
There just might be that Free Lunch, Jones has been seeking.  :-)
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 16 14:38:50 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3GLch1p017460; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 14:38:43 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3GLcf46017444; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 14:38:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 14:38:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2006-03-10) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.6 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Message-ID: <001001c6619e$1c14cc90$0100007f@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: Alliance for NanoHealth, Dr. Mauro Ferrari Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 16:37:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C66174.1AC88F90" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: <3OnRf.A.gQE.hlrQEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67599 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C66174.1AC88F90 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000D_01C66174.1ACA3D40" ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C66174.1ACA3D40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankHowdy Vorts, Today's Houston Chronicle announced the selection of Dr. Mauro Ferrari = as President od the Alliance. The Alliance is the result of the $144 mil National Cancer Institute = initiative... bionanotechnology, if you will., the Alliance roster includes .. Rice = U, U of Houston, Baylor, UT MDA, UT HSC, UT Galv and Texas A&M. The indication for a steady increase in research funding is apparent = across all science, except CF. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C66174.1ACA3D40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Howdy Vorts,
 
Today's Houston Chronicle announced  the selection of Dr. = Mauro=20 Ferrari as President od the Alliance.
 
 The Alliance is the result of the $144 mil National = Cancer=20 Institute initiative...
 
 bionanotechnology, if you will., the Alliance roster includes = .. Rice=20 U, U of Houston, Baylor, UT MDA, UT HSC, UT Galv and Texas = A&M.
 
The indication for a steady increase in research funding is = apparent across=20 all science, except  CF.
 
Richard

 

------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C66174.1ACA3D40-- ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C66174.1AC88F90 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000b01c6619e$0390dbf0$0100007f@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C66174.1AC88F90-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 16 17:29:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3H0TVNO004644; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 17:29:31 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3H0TQp5004621; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 17:29:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 17:29:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2006-03-10) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.6 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Message-ID: <000a01c661b5$f6f2a5f0$0100007f@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: ReRe: Alliance for NanoHealth, Dr. Mauro Ferrari Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 19:28:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C6618B.EF8E59F0"; type="multipart/alternative" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67601 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C6618B.EF8E59F0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0007_01C6618B.EF8FE090" ------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C6618B.EF8FE090 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankPhilip wrote.. "The indication for a steady increase in research funding is apparent = across all science, except CF" >And at this critical point in time, one wonders why (without, of = course, delving into conspiracy theories)... Howdy Philip, The article goes on the describe Dr. Ferrari as being a "charismatic = scholar" and he is the author of the NCI $144 mil initiative. In Texan speak, that means he was the guy that hustled up the money from = Uncle Sugar via NCI. The problem facing the CF initiative is the lack of a presence in D.C. = The way the game is played, the money comes from Uncle Sugar, some is = diverted to lobbyists that go back to the feed trough for more.. etc. We = have a merry go round and we wind up watching the government fund the = organizations that lobby. Tom DeLay was a piker. The CF people either pony up some serious money for lobbyists to start = the circle.. or keep standing outside looking in the windows of the = candy store.=20 Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C6618B.EF8FE090 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Philip wrote..
 
"The indication for a steady increase in research funding is = apparent=20 across all science, except  CF"

>And at this = critical point=20 in time, one wonders why (without, of course, delving into conspiracy=20 theories)...

Howdy Philip,
 
The article goes on the describe Dr. Ferrari as being a = "charismatic=20 scholar" and he is the author of the NCI $144 mil initiative.
In Texan speak, that means he was the guy that hustled up the money = from=20 Uncle Sugar via NCI.
 
The problem facing the CF initiative is the lack of a presence in = D.C. The=20 way the game is played, the money comes from Uncle Sugar, some is = diverted to=20 lobbyists that go back to the feed trough for more.. etc. We have a = merry go=20 round and we wind up watching the government fund the organizations that = lobby.=20 Tom DeLay was a piker.
The CF people either pony up some serious money for lobbyists to = start the=20 circle.. or keep standing outside looking in the windows of the candy = store.=20
 
Richard

 

------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C6618B.EF8FE090-- ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C6618B.EF8E59F0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000501c661b5$d856a650$0100007f@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C6618B.EF8E59F0-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 17 05:08:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3HC8jgr023754; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 05:08:45 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3HC8gf0023737; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 05:08:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 05:08:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=IjK9OzOK40XRdzeZT8Q6PYP521VsixS9hoCjQn1WdWm31yqToKmHuPF6QRtDy/DU; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006411712830553@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 06:08:30 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940724774005d7847b1e4f37e45017f32f4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.246 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67603 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Place two 1.0 Kg masses one meter apart and the attractive gravitational force Fg between them will be Fg = 6.67e-11 ^ M1 * M2/R^2 = 6.67e-11 Newtons. Place two "spheres of energy:" each with c^2 ( 9e16 )joules of energy one meter apart and the attractive force between them will be: Fg = 6.67e-11 = k * E1 * E2?R^2 Newtons Thus, K = 8.23e-45 Fg = 8.23e-45 * +/- E1 * +/- E2/R^2 = 8.23e-45 Newtons Attractive Force, if Both are of the Same Energy Sign Repulsive Force, if They are of Opposite Energy Sign. IOW,, the Protons (Positive charges) = Positive Energy in the "Spheres of Energy" attract each other as do the Electrons (Negative charges) = Negative Energy even though the Electrons in each sphere Repel the Protons in their own sphere, but the approximately 40 orders of magnitude Stronger Electrostatic Force swamps this repelling gravitational force. Prediction: 2.20 Joules of energy stored between the plates of a vacuum capacitor (Evacuated-Closed Concentric Spheres or Cylinders) At The Earth's Surface 1, Will Repel the Earth with a force of 2.40e-16 Newtons. 2, An electron (mc^2 = 8.19e-14 joules) at the earth's surface should be repelled by a force of 8.9e-30 Newtons. The latter case can be easily verified by experiment. One wrong step using the calculator can start a " Wild Goose Chase". :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Place two  1.0 Kg masses one meter apart and the
attractive gravitational force Fg between them will be
 
Fg = 6.67e-11 ^ M1 * M2/R^2 = 6.67e-11 Newtons.
 
Place two "spheres of energy:" each with c^2 ( 9e16 )joules of energy
one meter apart and the attractive force between them will be:
 
Fg = 6.67e-11 = k * E1 * E2?R^2  Newtons
 
Thus, K = 8.23e-45
 
Fg = 8.23e-45 *  +/- E1  *  +/-  E2/R^2  =  8.23e-45  Newtons
 
Attractive Force, if Both are of the Same Energy Sign
 
Repulsive Force, if They are of Opposite Energy Sign.
 
IOW,, the Protons (Positive charges) = Positive Energy in the "Spheres of Energy"
 
attract each other as do the Electrons (Negative charges) = Negative Energy
 
even though the Electrons in each sphere Repel the Protons in their
 
own sphere, but the approximately 40 orders of magnitude
 
Stronger Electrostatic Force swamps this repelling gravitational force.
 
Prediction:
 
2.20 Joules of energy stored between the plates of a vacuum capacitor
(Evacuated-Closed Concentric Spheres or Cylinders) At  The Earth's Surface
 
1, Will Repel the Earth with a force of 2.40e-16  Newtons.
 
2, An electron (mc^2 = 8.19e-14 joules) at the earth's surface
should be repelled by a force of 8.9e-30  Newtons.
 
The latter case can be easily verified by experiment. 
 
One wrong step using the calculator can start a " Wild Goose Chase".  :-)
 
Fred
 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 17 05:42:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3HCgTHm004250; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 05:42:29 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3HCgQFt004218; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 05:42:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 05:42:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <000d01c6621c$5a5c69d0$640fa8c0@MIKEBY3NR533HT> From: "Mike Carrell" To: References: <000a01c661b5$f6f2a5f0$0100007f@xptower> <6.1.1.1.1.20060416212048.01d9bae0@pop> Subject: Re: ReRe: Alliance for NanoHealth, Dr. Mauro Ferrari Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 08:42:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67604 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Philip Winestone Subject: Re: ReRe: Alliance for NanoHealth, Dr. Mauro Ferrari Thanks Richard. "Uncle Sugar" - LOL!!!! The world is full of "charismatic" people, and more often than not - call me a cynic if you must - their charisma inversely proportional to their usefulness. From what you say, lobbyists such as this chap, feed the egos of the Sugar Daddies (probably related to Uncle Sugar) and get the loot. It would be nice (dream on, I suppose) if some serious-minded people just this once looked at what's needed, these days, to overcome the deterioration that's taking place in the world energy situation, because we're stuck on oil. It really doesn't take a lobbyist - charismatic or otherwise - to see clearly what's happening and take appropriate action. It simply takes will. Philip. -------------------------------------- Will can be applied when there is a tangible body of technology or structure to apply the 'will' to. Peopel keep taking about the Manhattan Project. When that was intitiated by the famouns Einstein letter, a classic case of lobbying the President by a famous, god-like scientist, there was in place decades of relevant R&D and the critical discovery of the fission of U235, which was then many years old and accepted by the whole physics community. The possibility of a weapon was clearly seen by the Germans, Japanese, and US scientists, as well as a cadre of authors for "Astounding Science Fiction", the precursor of the now respectable "Analog". [Some of the authors were so accurate in precidtion of atomic weapons that the FBI tried to block the stories, but Campbell, the editor, pointed out the nature of the magazine's audience, and that a sudden silence would be a clear signal that something was going on, so publiscation continued.] The existing nuclear and oil infrastructure is something to which one can apply 'will' by many, including lobbyists. Nothing comparable exists in the CF community despite the 'will' of dedicated investigators over many years, and the publicity efforts of Rothwell, Storms, Mallove, Krivit, and Baudette. Had there not been a debacle in 1989, more funding might have been available and something to which 'will' can be applied in a lobbying sense might now exist. Critics of the situation should do their homework by reading the excellent books by Krivit and Baudette about the tragic drama of CF. Clearly progress is being made and there is a trickle of private and government support, but it is not yet ready to command a massive national project such as the Manhattan Project. Meanwhile, Mills' BlackLight Power has attracted over $50 million in private support, is gaining traction, and turning away investors. Mike Carrell From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 17 05:52:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3HCqIxI008637; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 05:52:18 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3HCqGGB008617; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 05:52:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 05:52:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=tDMKVKnH7YpKybvyoFeVtNK60js6vZwJXPQBvQghMrtOgJ/BIbkqu3PyMc4d9TwO; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006411712524491@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 06:52:04 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BC2B74.89D1CCC0" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9407c10f4d3343dbff40880f7042478645a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.126 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67605 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BC2B74.89D1CCC0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII OTOH, Buehler's experiments (despite the possible artifacts) suggest that polarization of the vacuum between/around the plates introduces a `ZPE multiplication factor that gave gravity repulsion forces on the order of 0.45 Newtons per joule stored between the plates (about 10 joules or ^20 joule/meter^3 at field intensities of approximately 2 Megavolts/meter. Reiterating: Does charging capacitors cause ZPE induced OU Effects? If so, a 25,000 microfarad capacitor inserted in an electric hot water heater electrically in series with the 4500 watts at 240 volt 50-60 Hz should lower the hot water heating cost. ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 4/17/2006 6:09:29 AM Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity Place two 1.0 Kg masses one meter apart and the attractive gravitational force Fg between them will be Fg = 6.67e-11 ^ M1 * M2/R^2 = 6.67e-11 Newtons. Place two "spheres of energy:" each with c^2 ( 9e16 )joules of energy one meter apart and the attractive force between them will be: Fg = 6.67e-11 = k * E1 * E2?R^2 Newtons Thus, K = 8.23e-45 Fg = 8.23e-45 * +/- E1 * +/- E2/R^2 = 8.23e-45 Newtons Attractive Force, if Both are of the Same Energy Sign Repulsive Force, if They are of Opposite Energy Sign. IOW,, the Protons (Positive charges) = Positive Energy in the "Spheres of Energy" attract each other as do the Electrons (Negative charges) = Negative Energy even though the Electrons in each sphere Repel the Protons in their own sphere, but the approximately 40 orders of magnitude Stronger Electrostatic Force swamps this repelling gravitational force. Prediction: 2.20 Joules of energy stored between the plates of a vacuum capacitor (Evacuated-Closed Concentric Spheres or Cylinders) At The Earth's Surface 1, Will Repel the Earth with a force of 2.40e-16 Newtons. 2, An electron (mc^2 = 8.19e-14 joules) at the earth's surface should be repelled by a force of 8.9e-30 Newtons. The latter case can be easily verified by experiment. One wrong step using the calculator can start a " Wild Goose Chase". :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
OTOH, Buehler's experiments (despite the possible artifacts) suggest
that polarization of the vacuum between/around the plates introduces
a `ZPE multiplication factor that gave gravity repulsion forces
on the order of 0.45 Newtons per joule stored between the plates
(about 10 joules or ^20 joule/meter^3 at field intensities of approximately
2 Megavolts/meter.
 
Reiterating:
 
Does charging capacitors cause ZPE induced OU Effects?
 
If so, a 25,000 microfarad capacitor inserted in an electric
hot water heater electrically in series with the 4500 watts at
240 volt 50-60 Hz should lower the hot water heating cost.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/17/2006 6:09:29 AM
Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity

Place two  1.0 Kg masses one meter apart and the
attractive gravitational force Fg between them will be
 
Fg = 6.67e-11 ^ M1 * M2/R^2 = 6.67e-11 Newtons.
 
Place two "spheres of energy:" each with c^2 ( 9e16 )joules of energy
one meter apart and the attractive force between them will be:
 
Fg = 6.67e-11 = k * E1 * E2?R^2  Newtons
 
Thus, K = 8.23e-45
 
Fg = 8.23e-45 *  +/- E1  *  +/-  E2/R^2  =  8.23e-45  Newtons
 
Attractive Force, if Both are of the Same Energy Sign
 
Repulsive Force, if They are of Opposite Energy Sign.
 
IOW,, the Protons (Positive charges) = Positive Energy in the "Spheres of Energy"
 
attract each other as do the Electrons (Negative charges) = Negative Energy
 
even though the Electrons in each sphere Repel the Protons in their
 
own sphere, but the approximately 40 orders of magnitude
 
Stronger Electrostatic Force swamps this repelling gravitational force.
 
Prediction:
 
2.20 Joules of energy stored between the plates of a vacuum capacitor
(Evacuated-Closed Concentric Spheres or Cylinders) At  The Earth's Surface
 
1, Will Repel the Earth with a force of 2.40e-16  Newtons.
 
2, An electron (mc^2 = 8.19e-14 joules) at the earth's surface
should be repelled by a force of 8.9e-30  Newtons.
 
The latter case can be easily verified by experiment. 
 
One wrong step using the calculator can start a " Wild Goose Chase".  :-)
 
Fred
 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- ------=_NextPart_000_01BC2B74.89D1CCC0 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; name="vortex-l.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: vortex-l.vcf Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vortex-l.vcf" QkVHSU46VkNBUkQNClZFUlNJT046Mi4xDQpOOjt2b3J0ZXgtbDs7DQpGTjp2b3J0ZXgtbA0KTklD S05BTUU6DQpPUkc6Ow0KVElUTEU6DQpURUw7SE9NRTtWT0lDRToNClRFTDtXT1JLO1ZPSUNFOg0K VEVMO0NFTEw7Vk9JQ0U6DQpURUw7UEFHRVI7Vk9JQ0U6DQpURUw7SE9NRTtGQVg6DQpURUw7V09S SztGQVg6DQpBRFI7SE9NRTo7Ozs7OzsNCkFEUjtXT1JLOjs7Ozs7Ow0KVVJMO0hPTUU6DQpVUkw7 V09SSzoNCkJEQVk6MDAwMA0KQU5OSVY6MDAwMA0KU1BPVVNFOg0KRkFNSUxZOg0KRU1BSUw7UFJF RjtJTlRFUk5FVDp2b3J0ZXgtbEBlc2tpbW8uY29tDQpOT1RFOg0KSU07UFJFRjtJTlRFUk5FVDo7 DQpJTTtJTlRFUk5FVDo7DQpJTTtJTlRFUk5FVDo7DQpWQ0FSRF9FTkQ6VkNBUkQNCg== ------=_NextPart_000_01BC2B74.89D1CCC0-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 17 06:44:24 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3HDi8WD001210; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 06:44:09 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3HDi73B001188; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 06:44:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 06:44:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2006-03-10) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.6 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Message-ID: <001001c66224$f779d7e0$58037841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: Re: Alliance for NanoHealth, Dr. Mauro Ferrari Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 08:43:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C661FB.0E0E1F90" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67607 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C661FB.0E0E1F90 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000D_01C661FB.0E0FA630" ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C661FB.0E0FA630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankMike Carroll wote.. >Will can be applied when there is a tangible body of technology or = structure=20 >to apply the 'will' to... Howdy Mike and Philip. An additional factor in science research has emerged in today's society. = Research reconceptualized as a business with a revenue stream. In = otherwords.. not the results found through research..but.. the research = money. UT-Austin did some work under an alliance with U-Michigan and = Gen Atomic. I asked for some info on the results of the pilot study.. I = was shuttled across the US. At every inquiry I was met with the = question..." where are you getting your research money"?? Thats all they = wanted to know. I finally learned the pilot study produced NOTHING. = Why? Because is was all about getting research money for Uncle Sugar.. = Research has been reconceptualized by the universities in concert and = harmony with the government. But isn't that how it's always been.. a few toil at the task out of a = dedication to pure science. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C661FB.0E0FA630 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Mike Carroll wote..

>Will can be applied when there is a tangible body of technology = or=20 structure
>to apply the 'will' to...

 

Howdy Mike and Philip.

An additional factor in science research has emerged in today's = society.=20 Research reconceptualized as a business with a revenue stream. In=20 otherwords.. not the results found through research..but.. the research=20 money.  UT-Austin did some work under an alliance with U-Michigan = and Gen=20 Atomic. I asked for some info on the results of the pilot study.. I was = shuttled=20 across the US. At every inquiry I was met with the question..." where = are you=20 getting your research money"?? Thats all they wanted to know. I finally = learned=20 the pilot study produced NOTHING.  Why?  Because is was all = about=20 getting research money for Uncle Sugar.. Research has been = reconceptualized by=20 the universities in concert and harmony with the government.

But isn't that how it's always been.. a few  toil at the task = out of a=20 dedication to pure science.

Richard

------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C661FB.0E0FA630-- ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C661FB.0E0E1F90 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000b01c66224$f6d97930$58037841@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C661FB.0E0E1F90-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 17 08:28:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3HFRoDL014942; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 08:27:51 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3HFRk8K014893; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 08:27:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 08:27:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <003101c66233$7708d700$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Subject: Re: Muonium Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 08:27:38 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67609 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Following insightful private email on the Joe Cell device, here is more detail regarding the key claimed feature - "implosion" : RvS: "I assume you are referring to the fact that they adjust the timing to close to bottom dead center, then claim that the motor is driven by implosion." Yes but it is too bad that the anecdotes are not in agreement on these details, so one must surmise on the general modality based on incomplete and conflicting reports. Note also that "implosion" has also been said (in a totally different line of experiments) to be a key feature of "Brown's gas". The more correct accounting for this phenomenon is that : in "common manifold" electrolysis (i.e. mixed lean H2 laced gas), there can be a brief and colorless "explosion," followed immediately by a more easily discernable "implosion" - such that the observer comes away with the sensory impression of an implosion-only - in circumstances where very lean hydrogen is exploded. "The problem that I have with their [Joe cell] scenario is that atmospheric pressure is nowhere near enough to deliver the claimed power output. I.e. even if they achieved a perfect vacuum in the cylinder, the highest pressure they would get would be 1 atm." Agreed. Even a complete vacuum operating against STP cannot account for the power claimed. "Therefore I see only two possibilities:- 1) Vacuum is correct but is actually beta-atmosphere vacuum => high power. 2) Vacuum is not correct, but ignition takes a while to occur, requiring that spark be very much advanced." Good. But more information is needed. It could be that - like with common manifold electrolysis (with or without the necessity for "orgone" itself) there is a substantial but very quick explosion, followed so quickly by a slower implosion, such that the observer only sees the later. In which case timing is key. Actually in a 2-cycle engine, fueled by extremely lean H2 you get an effect which is identical to the explosion/implosion effect which is witnessed in some accounts of the Joe cell. This "implosion" becomes more a matter of sensory perception. the $64 question is: is there more to this scenario then common-manifold electrolysis ? (i.e. is there some extra like "orgone"?) This is one reason why some of these Joe Cell devices - the ones where the higher voltage (12 volts) is not removed after startup - may be nothing more than Meyer-type electrolysis cells. Check out Meyer's cell design - concentric stainless steel cylinders - coincidence? Surprising that Joe cell proponents seldom mention the Meyer connection. As to how-and-why they can self-power an ICE engine: the answer is hidden in the crankcase. The very-lean hydrogen which can be generated on-board, using self-power only, is not sufficient to power the engine by itself but it is, in actuality, burning away the thin oil film that reappears on the cylinder every time the piston is wetted in the crankcase. This small amount of additional hydrocarbon (in the oil lubricant) is what allows for complete self-power in most of these anecdotes. Remove the lubrication (or preferably substitute a mineral lubricant to prevent piston seizure) and the engine will NOT self-power with a Joe cell. (this is my contention - until it is proven otherwise). This is the reason why some of the Joe cells seem to stop after an hour or two - they have burned up all the lubrication in the crankcase ! (and done it very efficiently) . Of course in a two cycle engine you get some of this crankcase oil in the intake air, directly. The flame speed of H2 is INCREDIBLE and that is what "seems" to cause a more noticeable implosion following a very brief explosion - and that is what allows the hydrocarbon film to be burned off the cylinder wall - which will not happen with gasoline alone (i.e. gasoline can not be burned lean-enough nor fast-enough in flame speed - in order to send a lot of hot O2 to impinge on the cylinder wall, and to therefore burn off the lubricant). Actually I am of the belief that it may be possible to use very lean hydrogen from on-board electrolysis in order to drive a 2-cycle engine - where a fuel like #2 fuel oil (which is a lubricant) is admitted from the crankcase and the carburetor is discarded. This could be economical and marketable as a solution for 2-cycle engines... and it can happen... ...even without orgone - which is something that, to be honest, I personally do NOT believe in (yet) while at the same time am keeping an open mind pending some semblance of scientific proof. And after spending many hours reviewing the W. Reich material, it is so far from scientific proof as to be laughable, IMHO, but that does not mean that it is necessarily wrong. However, it could have been easily validated scientifically, yet it was not - so the only logical assumption (pending proof) is: it is wrong but intriguingly-wrong. ... BTW, I could write a whole essay on the many nuances of how "entriguingly-wrong" is a necessary precedent to a great scientific breakthrough. Set your spam filters accordingly ;-) Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 16 16:29:17 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3GNTDme018554; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 16:29:13 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3GNTBfc018540; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 16:29:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 16:29:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Sender:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=o5Eelh+Sc6yVCh8/xX8demSX+UNp+5ul2vadDkqXV54TqwmhH2cgcBo2+sdzUUJJZnBdFwSPR0P0SelEdCMyD7mXlABSyQGSEON5D1VfpUy0YYCa5/LkL7OCBHFxG3z7sJyT4gYWbL38gNnh6tzjSQ0nAQ0ymjjKPk1Vm2g6Yno= ; Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.1.20060416192758.01d94008@pop> X-Sender: philip.winestone@pop X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.1.1 Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 19:29:37 -0400 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Philip Winestone Subject: Re: Alliance for NanoHealth, Dr. Mauro Ferrari In-Reply-To: <001001c6619e$1c14cc90$0100007f@xptower> References: <001001c6619e$1c14cc90$0100007f@xptower> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_46385515==.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67600 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends5 Status: RO X-Status: --=====================_46385515==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed "The indication for a steady increase in research funding is apparent across all science, except CF" And at this critical point in time, one wonders why (without, of course, delving into conspiracy theories)... P. At 04:37 PM 4/16/2006 -0500, you wrote: >Howdy Vorts, > >Today's Houston Chronicle announced the selection of Dr. Mauro Ferrari as >President od the Alliance. > > The Alliance is the result of the $144 mil National Cancer Institute > initiative... > > bionanotechnology, if you will., the Alliance roster includes .. Rice U, > U of Houston, Baylor, UT MDA, UT HSC, UT Galv and Texas A&M. > >The indication for a steady increase in research funding is apparent >across all science, except CF. > >Richard > > > --=====================_46385515==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" "The indication for a steady increase in research funding is apparent across all science, except  CF"

And at this critical point in time, one wonders why (without, of course, delving into conspiracy theories)...

P.


At 04:37 PM 4/16/2006 -0500, you wrote:
Howdy Vorts,
 
Today's Houston Chronicle announced  the selection of Dr. Mauro Ferrari as President od the Alliance.
 
 The Alliance is the result of the $144 mil National Cancer Institute initiative...
 
 bionanotechnology, if you will., the Alliance roster includes .. Rice U, U of Houston, Baylor, UT MDA, UT HSC, UT Galv and Texas A&M.
 
The indication for a steady increase in research funding is apparent across all science, except  CF.
 
Richard

 


--=====================_46385515==.ALT-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 16 18:31:33 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3H1VNiu023395; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 18:31:23 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3H1VLbN023378; Sun, 16 Apr 2006 18:31:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 18:31:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Sender:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=zxdWiUN0okfpvUSC+yHmM1rDyX+xV9oNx8fJ3DALz9kad1yAbrXLfiPxkBqNtyzgpI5Hm9ZaX5hSzfi0bCUZUt0f7MkA7y8OvbeAkeOSifLB/xzePN8CYirKHrbq8Lz6TfkjhvTn+Mz1RVx5FkqPK9XzTHxuUBKxNJDte/eAg+U= ; Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.1.20060416212048.01d9bae0@pop> X-Sender: philip.winestone@pop X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.1.1 Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 21:31:27 -0400 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Philip Winestone Subject: Re: ReRe: Alliance for NanoHealth, Dr. Mauro Ferrari In-Reply-To: <000a01c661b5$f6f2a5f0$0100007f@xptower> References: <000a01c661b5$f6f2a5f0$0100007f@xptower> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_53695328==.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67602 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends5 Status: O X-Status: --=====================_53695328==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Thanks Richard. "Uncle Sugar" - LOL!!!! The world is full of "charismatic" people, and more often than not - call me a cynic if you must - their charisma inversely proportional to their usefulness. From what you say, lobbyists such as this chap, feed the egos of the Sugar Daddies (probably related to Uncle Sugar) and get the loot. It would be nice (dream on, I suppose) if some serious-minded people just this once looked at what's needed, these days, to overcome the deterioration that's taking place in the world energy situation, because we're stuck on oil. It really doesn't take a lobbyist - charismatic or otherwise - to see clearly what's happening and take appropriate action. It simply takes will. Philip. At 07:28 PM 4/16/2006 -0500, you wrote: >Philip wrote.. > >"The indication for a steady increase in research funding is apparent >across all science, except CF" > > >And at this critical point in time, one wonders why (without, of course, > delving into conspiracy theories)... > >Howdy Philip, > >The article goes on the describe Dr. Ferrari as being a "charismatic >scholar" and he is the author of the NCI $144 mil initiative. >In Texan speak, that means he was the guy that hustled up the money from >Uncle Sugar via NCI. > >The problem facing the CF initiative is the lack of a presence in D.C. The >way the game is played, the money comes from Uncle Sugar, some is diverted >to lobbyists that go back to the feed trough for more.. etc. We have a >merry go round and we wind up watching the government fund the >organizations that lobby. Tom DeLay was a piker. >The CF people either pony up some serious money for lobbyists to start the >circle.. or keep standing outside looking in the windows of the candy store. > >Richard > > > --=====================_53695328==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Thanks Richard.

"Uncle Sugar" - LOL!!!!

The world is full of "charismatic" people, and more often than not - call me a cynic if you must - their charisma inversely proportional to their usefulness.  From what you say, lobbyists such as this chap, feed the egos of the Sugar Daddies (probably related to Uncle Sugar) and get the loot.

It would be nice (dream on, I suppose) if some serious-minded people just this once looked at what's needed, these days, to overcome the deterioration that's taking place in the world energy situation, because we're stuck on oil.  It really doesn't take a lobbyist - charismatic or otherwise - to see clearly what's happening and take appropriate action.  It simply takes will.

Philip.


At 07:28 PM 4/16/2006 -0500, you wrote:
Philip wrote..
 
"The indication for a steady increase in research funding is apparent across all science, except  CF"

>And at this critical point in time, one wonders why (without, of course, delving into conspiracy theories)...

Howdy Philip,
 
The article goes on the describe Dr. Ferrari as being a "charismatic scholar" and he is the author of the NCI $144 mil initiative.
In Texan speak, that means he was the guy that hustled up the money from Uncle Sugar via NCI.
 
The problem facing the CF initiative is the lack of a presence in D.C. The way the game is played, the money comes from Uncle Sugar, some is diverted to lobbyists that go back to the feed trough for more.. etc. We have a merry go round and we wind up watching the government fund the organizations that lobby. Tom DeLay was a piker.
The CF people either pony up some serious money for lobbyists to start the circle.. or keep standing outside looking in the windows of the candy store.
 
Richard

 


--=====================_53695328==.ALT-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 17 06:15:06 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3HDEslB018246; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 06:14:55 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3HDErCb018233; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 06:14:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 06:14:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Sender:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=RGohWwL1T95zd7JJDWSHPJew8fZrl/A/YJb0kNoYhBOu4aA/ToVrzaI2UNDs2DyNZXb1aOgMHA7VwMjvu7C+Pxni3AfrIPcsAPTLxO8oIpPJijocNaCBIpc6vIXTSMAyBTx04WNojnFyeXjwTVDdLNk2miMwOA5ORG9llfaci8w= ; Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.1.20060417090353.01da5b38@pop> X-Sender: philip.winestone@pop X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.1.1 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 09:14:37 -0400 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Philip Winestone Subject: Re: ReRe: Alliance for NanoHealth, Dr. Mauro Ferrari In-Reply-To: <000d01c6621c$5a5c69d0$640fa8c0@MIKEBY3NR533HT> References: <000a01c661b5$f6f2a5f0$0100007f@xptower> <6.1.1.1.1.20060416212048.01d9bae0@pop> <000d01c6621c$5a5c69d0$640fa8c0@MIKEBY3NR533HT> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_9948546==.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: <2KV0GC.A.1cE.MT5QEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67606 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends5 Status: O X-Status: --=====================_9948546==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 08:42 AM 4/17/2006 -0400, you wrote: >----- Original Message ----- From: Philip Winestone >Subject: Re: ReRe: Alliance for NanoHealth, Dr. Mauro Ferrari > > >Thanks Richard. > >"Uncle Sugar" - LOL!!!! > >The world is full of "charismatic" people, and more often than not - call >me a cynic if you must - their charisma inversely proportional to their >usefulness. From what you say, lobbyists such as this chap, feed the egos >of the Sugar Daddies (probably related to Uncle Sugar) and get the loot. > >It would be nice (dream on, I suppose) if some serious-minded people just >this once looked at what's needed, these days, to overcome the >deterioration that's taking place in the world energy situation, because >we're stuck on oil. It really doesn't take a lobbyist - charismatic or >otherwise - to see clearly what's happening and take appropriate >action. It simply takes will. > >Philip. >-------------------------------------- >Will can be applied when there is a tangible body of technology or >structure to apply the 'will' to. Peopel keep taking about the Manhattan >Project. When that was intitiated by the famouns Einstein letter, a >classic case of lobbying the President by a famous, god-like scientist, >there was in place decades of relevant R&D and the critical discovery of >the fission of U235, which was then many years old and accepted by the >whole physics community. The possibility of a weapon was clearly seen by >the Germans, Japanese, and US scientists, as well as a cadre of authors >for "Astounding Science Fiction", the precursor of the now respectable >"Analog". [Some of the authors were so accurate in precidtion of atomic >weapons that the FBI tried to block the stories, but Campbell, the >editor, pointed out the nature of the magazine's audience, and that a >sudden silence would be a clear signal that something was going on, so >publiscation continued.] > >The existing nuclear and oil infrastructure is something to which one can >apply 'will' by many, including lobbyists. Nothing comparable exists in >the CF community despite the 'will' of dedicated investigators over many >years, and the publicity efforts of Rothwell, Storms, Mallove, Krivit, and >Baudette. Had there not been a debacle in 1989, more funding might have >been available and something to which 'will' can be applied in a lobbying >sense might now exist. > >Critics of the situation should do their homework by reading the excellent >books by Krivit and Baudette about the tragic drama of CF. > >Clearly progress is being made and there is a trickle of private and >government support, but it is not yet ready to command a massive national >project such as the Manhattan Project. Meanwhile, Mills' BlackLight Power >has attracted over $50 million in private support, is gaining traction, >and turning away investors. > >Mike Carrell ********************************************************************************* "Critics of the situation should do their homework..." That's the key sentence. Aside from the alternatives such as BlackLight Power, which as you say, is attracting all kinds of investment money, REAL critics of what's known as "cold fusion" should do their homework, by reading about the dishonesty surrounding the debacle in 1989. That's if they're REAL critics, and not just blind naysayers. "Decades of relevant R&D"? Well there it's been almost two decades since "the debacle," during which many grim scientists exerted their own willpower, and despite a drought of both cash and support, managed to determine that there was something - albeit without (yet) well-established scientific credentials - that simply needs more effort to establish at least some such credentials; huge effort... And this takes money. It's like driving with one's foot on the brake pedal and complaining that the car's engine doesn't have enough power. P. --=====================_9948546==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 08:42 AM 4/17/2006 -0400, you wrote:

----- Original Message ----- From: Philip Winestone
Subject: Re: ReRe: Alliance for NanoHealth, Dr. Mauro Ferrari


Thanks Richard.

"Uncle Sugar" - LOL!!!!

The world is full of "charismatic" people, and more often than not - call me a cynic if you must - their charisma inversely proportional to their usefulness.  From what you say, lobbyists such as this chap, feed the egos of the Sugar Daddies (probably related to Uncle Sugar) and get the loot.

It would be nice (dream on, I suppose) if some serious-minded people just this once looked at what's needed, these days, to overcome the deterioration that's taking place in the world energy situation, because we're stuck on oil.  It really doesn't take a lobbyist - charismatic or otherwise - to see clearly what's happening and take appropriate action.  It simply takes will.

Philip.
--------------------------------------
Will can be applied when there is a tangible body of technology or structure to apply the 'will' to. Peopel keep taking about the Manhattan Project. When that was intitiated by the famouns Einstein letter, a classic case of lobbying the President by a famous, god-like scientist, there was in place decades of relevant R&D and the critical discovery of the fission of U235, which was then many years old and accepted by the whole physics community. The possibility of a weapon was clearly seen by the Germans, Japanese, and US scientists, as well as a cadre of authors for "Astounding Science Fiction", the precursor of the now respectable "Analog". [Some of the authors were so accurate in precidtion of atomic weapons that the FBI  tried to block the stories, but Campbell, the editor, pointed out the nature of the magazine's audience, and that a sudden silence would be a clear signal that something was going on, so publiscation continued.]

The existing nuclear and oil infrastructure is something to which one can apply 'will' by many, including lobbyists. Nothing comparable exists in the CF community despite the 'will' of dedicated investigators over many years, and the publicity efforts of Rothwell, Storms, Mallove, Krivit, and Baudette. Had there not been a debacle in 1989, more funding might have been available and something to which 'will' can be applied in a lobbying sense might now exist.

Critics of the situation should do their homework by reading the excellent books by Krivit and Baudette about the tragic drama of CF.

Clearly progress is being made and there is a trickle of private and government support, but it is not yet ready to command a massive national project such as the Manhattan Project. Meanwhile, Mills' BlackLight Power has attracted over $50 million in private support, is gaining traction, and turning away investors.

Mike Carrell
*********************************************************************************
"Critics of the situation should do their homework..."

That's the key sentence.  Aside from the alternatives such as BlackLight Power, which as you say, is attracting all kinds of investment money, REAL critics of what's known as "cold fusion" should do their homework, by reading about the dishonesty surrounding the debacle in 1989.  That's if they're REAL critics, and not just blind naysayers.
"Decades of relevant R&D"? Well there it's been almost two decades since "the debacle," during which many grim scientists exerted their own willpower, and despite a drought of both cash and support, managed to determine that there was something - albeit without (yet) well-established scientific credentials - that simply needs more effort to establish at least some such credentials; huge effort... And this takes money.

It's like driving with one's foot on the brake pedal and complaining that the car's engine doesn't have enough power. 

P.



--=====================_9948546==.ALT-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 17 08:25:19 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3HFPCqo013393; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 08:25:12 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3HFPAu8013378; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 08:25:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 08:25:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Sender:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=wS0MaWcYM9JtF6JS+KF9wzvMZjVUdZaMNZxGQsXKal3wCetIuAtNyrKWrGFUH1TkTCmgKDyf/dul0Rdw71opJxyfaMXEJp6qN3cHUksPDotn/GfBCeeu/ZiFG97481b0vV6wuCqjz9MMwFyeVPMU24HSGdVB3k/gvb9Y3++Vqsw= ; Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.1.20060417112235.01d9a158@pop> X-Sender: philip.winestone@pop X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.1.1 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 11:24:55 -0400 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Philip Winestone Subject: Re: Alliance for NanoHealth, Dr. Mauro Ferrari In-Reply-To: <001001c66224$f779d7e0$58037841@xptower> References: <001001c66224$f779d7e0$58037841@xptower> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67608 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends5 Status: O X-Status: And for all these years I thought it was all as pure as the driven snow. You mean the execs of Enron learned all they learned from Science: The less you produce the more money people will throw at you? P. At 08:43 AM 4/17/2006 -0500, you wrote: >Mike Carroll wote.. > > >Will can be applied when there is a tangible body of technology or > structure > >to apply the 'will' to... > > > >Howdy Mike and Philip. > >An additional factor in science research has emerged in today's society. >Research reconceptualized as a business with a revenue stream. In >otherwords.. not the results found through research..but.. the research >money. UT-Austin did some work under an alliance with U-Michigan and Gen >Atomic. I asked for some info on the results of the pilot study.. I was >shuttled across the US. At every inquiry I was met with the question..." >where are you getting your research money"?? Thats all they wanted to >know. I finally learned the pilot study produced NOTHING. Why? Because >is was all about getting research money for Uncle Sugar.. Research has >been reconceptualized by the universities in concert and harmony with the >government. > >But isn't that how it's always been.. a few toil at the task out of a >dedication to pure science. > >Richard > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 17 10:43:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3HHhDSo007056; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 10:43:13 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3HHhBL3007042; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 10:43:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 10:43:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=MzowXO5kw7hpMP+UjlyBO1R/WHf4BhNfstDsPflRCml9z5MqN8I899t6GsiyPe1L; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006411717430421@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Muonium Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 11:43:00 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9402328b19b631d1296f44d8e80c9edbdbe350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.58 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67610 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones wrote. Build-your-own Joe Cell: http://educate-yourself.org/fe/fejoewatercell.shtml Why you don't want "Magnetic" materials.in your Orgone Accumulator. 316 Stainless Steel Alloys: Chemical Formula Fe, <0.03% C, 16-18.5% Cr, 10-14% Ni, 2-3% Mo, <2% Mn, <1% Si, <0.045% P, <0.03% S http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=863#_Composition 304 SS Alloys: Chemical Formula Fe, <0.08% C, 17.5-20% Cr, 8-11% Ni, <2% Mn, <1% Si, <0.045% P, <0.03% S http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=965#_Composition Why High Implosion Energy Density can tap ZPE. 1, Same way implosion-collapse of cavitation/sonofusion bubbles create High Implosion Energy Density by tapping ZPE. 2, Same way High Energy Density in Capacitors can "condense" ZPE. > [Original Message] > From: Jones Beene > To: vortex > Date: 4/17/2006 9:31:16 AM > Subject: Re: Muonium > > Following insightful private email on the Joe Cell device, here is > more detail regarding the key claimed feature - "implosion" : > > RvS: "I assume you are referring to the fact that they adjust the > timing to close to bottom dead center, then claim that the motor > is driven by implosion." > > Yes but it is too bad that the anecdotes are not in agreement on > these details, so one must surmise on the general modality based > on incomplete and conflicting reports. > > Note also that "implosion" has also been said (in a totally > different line of experiments) to be a key feature of "Brown's > gas". The more correct accounting for this phenomenon is that : in > "common manifold" electrolysis (i.e. mixed lean H2 laced gas), > there can be a brief and colorless "explosion," followed > immediately by a more easily discernable "implosion" - such that > the observer comes away with the sensory impression of an > implosion-only - in circumstances where very lean hydrogen is > exploded. > Snip for Brevity. > > Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 17 11:20:12 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3HIK2cn022438; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 11:20:03 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3HICHY2018971; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 11:12:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 11:12:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 14:12:17 -0400 Message-Id: <8C8306198A6E00B-F54-1090E@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <410-22006411712830553@earthlink.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <410-22006411712830553@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.65 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3HICFlE018951 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67611 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Frederick Sparber Prediction:   2.20 Joules of energy stored between the plates of a vacuum capacitor (Evacuated-Closed Concentric Spheres or Cylinders) At  The Earth's Surface   1, Will Repel the Earth with a force of 2.40e-16  Newtons.   2, An electron (mc^2 = 8.19e-14 joules) at the earth's surface should be repelled by a force of 8.9e-30  Newtons. <><><><><><><> Joseph Hiddick just made a similar claim on a Yahoo list: "From: Joseph Hiddink Date: Sun Apr 16, 2006 10:50 pm Subject: Re: [energy2000 / energy 21) Re: [energy2000 / energy 21) Has anyone checked out this OU device? Looks interesting. vliegschotel Charles: When I found the system of power/propulsion etc. as used by a Flying Saucer, one of my two witnessses, required by Law, to sign a statement that they understand the system, before it goes to the Patent Lawyer, was a German (now Canadian) Chief Engineer. After the initial laughing and finally realizing what I had invented, he told me that they had in Germany since 1933 (when Hitler came to power) till 1937 tried de VandeGraaff Generator to get levitation of any kind. In 1937 they changed to magnetics. The day before Hitler invaded Russia they had succeeded to get a weight-reduction of about 120 pounds. The machine, which looked like a double saucer weighed two tons, so Hitler scrapped the projectand went in with rocket development. "When the project was canceled, we had to swear dear oaths of secrecy, bu that is nonsense now, you found it!" "My God, why did I not think about it....?" I thought: "A goood thing too, Hitler would have won the was with that invention alone, not one Allied Aircraft would hhave returned home after it entered German controlled Airspace..." Hitler had been told that the secret would be found by someone Vandegraaff (From the town of Graaff, in Holland. Now the place is called Grave). That was the place where I was born Everybody was surprised after the great number of German tourists that descended on that little town after Hitler came to power. It would be found on his birthday! Yes, I found it on April 20 1967. But Hitler was dead and the machine never ever flew or came off the ground." He holds a patent on a "capacitor changer": http://tinyurl.com/otdkc (US 4,095,162) which is cited in two other "dual layer" capacitors (US 5,319,518 and US 6,097,586) In other postings, he claims that he knows what made Tesla's car run. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 17 13:11:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3HKBjxf031459; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 13:11:45 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3HKBhvt031446; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 13:11:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 13:11:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <006601c6625b$2381e860$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Subject: OT: The Matrix as Ontology Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 13:11:39 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67612 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Forget the feeble antics of the DVC and move-on to some heretical reality-code, Bro... Many educated, doctoral level thinkers like Massimo Pigliucci, Jake Horsley et al., have been so impressed with the (largely unintended) theological, epistemological and ontological implication of the movie trilogy - Matrix - that a mini-industry is forming: an impressive outpouring of thought and effort expended on this once rather dry and arcane subject: "what is real". The film has even become the basis of numerous well-attended courses in the once-shunned Philosophy Departments at major universities. If L.Ron Hubbub and his minions can spawn a whole new religion based on ridiculous, self-indulgent, 3rd-rate SciFi ramblings, then the Matrix may yet end-up being the basis for the next world-wide united-religious movement... I hear that the Vatican (or at least Opus Dei) is already looking to relocate in El Segundo ;-) ... and what shall we call it: Neoteny ? (that's dpi for double pun intended) You can ditch the film's non-stop action, 'spent-round' look-and-feel, superb f-X glitz, overworked symbolism, annoying posturing, vague androgynous leather-jacketed romance, and the hip-pop'n-Ncrowd-cachet, and even then there is still, underlying it all: surprising profundity ... a rather deep rabbit hole, shall we say, Alice? Four literary offerings of note, may help the seeker-of-truth (IOW the average-vo) obtain a less-foggy glimpse through the "looking glass" ... and may be had at Amazon.com. EXPLORING THE MATRIX is an anthology of eighteen contributions, mostly from writers classified as "cyberpunk and science-fiction visionaries"... which is not exactly an endorsement of expertise in ontology, but the essays are insightful. THE MATRIX AND PHILOSOPHY: Welcome to the Desert of the Real, by William Irwin (Editor) is better but more erudite and a bit neocon. "Many people recognize The Matrix as a retelling of "the greatest story ever told..." not to mention: we're not sure that any Nazarite could dodge that much live ammo. K J. Murtagh uses "Matrix " in his college philosophy course. In his review he say of the Irwin book and the movie: "This book provides me with an "in" that I can use in order to discuss very important philosophical issues". It is often difficult to make the material "come to life", especially when teaching a required course. By using this book, it is possible to make the process much more enjoyable for students who would otherwise be disinterested. A few highlights: Ch.1: Computers, Caves, and Oracles: Neo and Socrates- Compares Plato's allegory of the cave to Neo's journey. An excellent discussion of what it means to lead an examined life and seek the truth. Excellent segue into the red pill/blue pill debate. Ch.6: The Machine-Made Ghost: Or, The Philosophy of Mind, Matrix Style- Discusses Artificial Intelligence and the nature of the mind. The author argues against dualism and favors a materialistic view. Leads to a discussion on whether or not it would be theoretically possible for a Matrix to exist and the presuppositions that are present in the movie with regard to the nature of the mind. Ch.8: Fate, Freedom, and Foreknowledge: A discussion of fate, freedom, omniscience and determinism. Even if they escaped the Matrix, would people really be free? Ch.11: Happiness and Cypher's Choice: Is Ignorance Bliss?- My favorite essay in the book. What do we make of Cypher's decision to try to return to the Matrix? Is a decimated reality preferable to an artificial world where you can "eat" a juicy steak and do not have to worry about Sentinels trying to kill you? The author says that it is, and his argument is very thought-provoking. But two other collections of essays are even more interesting to me: JOURNEY TO THE SOURCE: Decoding Matrix Trilogy, by Pradheep Challiyil is one. And MATRIX WARRIOR - Being the One, by Jake Horsley is probably the best of the lot. Horsley's exegesis, as other reviewers have also noted, consists of three derivative claims about work-a-day reality as set out in Matrix - all of which turn up in almost every work on modern ontology. 1. "Reality" can be identical to a kind of self-imposed prison (i.e. pre-Neo in his office, neither happy or fulfilled)... less a prison than a constraining web which has been woven out of our encoded societal memes, pressures and expectations. Like the big-birds say about the left coast, "you can check out but you can never leave." 2. We are born as slaves, oftentimes staying-on as willing slaves to this duplicity - partaking in a shared hallucination... at least up until the time when the more rebellious dare to "take the red pill" 3. Humanity is little more than a "food/energy/information/entertainment/biodiversity source" for a higher-order of intelligence, even if that higher order has been recently evolved (in the past 5000 years) from the common man himself (i.e. the all-souls-divinity). Of course, when you add in the PKD-spawned material on the "real" implications of VALIS and the fact that the higher-order of intelligence may in fact have traveled here from another reality, then things get very confusing as to whether divinity actually exists in 3-space "in the flesh" as it were, or only in "spirit". Given that Valis may have been manufactured, and that its intelligence is mechanical but superior - then we have come full circle to Deus ex Machina. Not that anyone believes in the physical reality of Valis... IOW - when we look at all the many nuances and implications of the Matrix film trilogy - a lot can be "read into it" which was once the exclusive province of egg-heads with Hessian monikers. But if you are so inclined (even professorially inclined) and desirous of reaching a much broader audience than the Kant-stand-Heidegger variety of resource - then, hey take a blue pill now, pocket the red one, read more, and make up your mind before doing anything rash ... ... after all, bro, tha' "Nebuchadnezza" is a pretty funky ride, greatly in need of some Smith-like pimping-up, and shared hallucinations aren't all that bad. Kinda like the "placebo effect" ... i.e. who care if the pill is fake when the cure is real. Chapter listing of MATRIX WARRIOR: 'NOT JUST A MOVIE, IT'S AN EXPERIENCE !' If these are not provocative enough enticement, then why are you still reading this? (1) First Variable: LIVING IN A DREAM WORLD Reality as a Snare: Postmodernist Twenty-First Century Fragmentation (2) We Are Not Amused: Rules for Beginners (3) The Seven Deadly Virtues: Primary Motivating Factors for Plugged-in Humans (4) Automatons 'R' Us (2) Second Variable: THERE IS NO SPOON (5) Hologram Ethics: Reality as Game-Plan (6) Rules of Empowerment: DIY Unplugging (7) Sins Against the State: Eight Cardinal Virtues of the Matrix Warrior (8) The Vale of Soul-Making: Understanding the Matrix (3) Third Variable: YOU THINK THAT'S AIR YOU'RE BREATHING ? (9) Do You Believe in Fate ? The Sorcerer's Will to Freedom (10) Life in the Matrix: Appropriate Responses to Illusory Stimuli (11) You Are Not You: Life as Simulacra This is probably the book I should have written, but with a little more humor and attention to Yahaa-the-Horselover (the second Baptist, so to speak)... Yours unruly, Harry Tuttle, Eng.d'loi & Neoromancer From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 17 14:15:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3HLFVn1023655; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 14:15:31 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3HLFUmO023632; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 14:15:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 14:15:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <200604172115.k3HLFS7Z041018@mail0.mx.voyager.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 16:15:28 -0500 From: "OrionWorks" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: svj@orionworks.com Subject: Re: OT: The Matrix as Ontology Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_cfa75910f5481abfeeded03d2af3d110" X-Mailer: CoreComm Webmail X-IPAddress: 130.47.34.2 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67614 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=_cfa75910f5481abfeeded03d2af3d110 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Slow day at the office, Jones? Thanks for this wonderfully distractive essay. It appealed to the virtual TAOist within me. > Forget the feeble antics of the DVC and move-on to some heretical > reality-code, Bro... > ... steve Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks --=_cfa75910f5481abfeeded03d2af3d110 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Slow day at the office, Jones?

Thanks for this wonderfully distractive essay.

It appealed to the virtual TAOist within me.

> Forget the feeble antics of the DVC and move-on to some heretical
> reality-code, Bro...
>

...

steve
Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks --=_cfa75910f5481abfeeded03d2af3d110-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 17 17:22:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3I0Lo1i002597; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 17:21:50 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3I0Lmk0002575; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 17:21:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 17:21:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 20:21:46 -0400 Message-Id: <8C83095362A2B7F-291C-490F@mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <006601c6625b$2381e860$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <006601c6625b$2381e860$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: OT: The Matrix as Ontology Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.131 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3I0Lkgo002551 Resent-Message-ID: <1HbaSD.A.Lo.bEDREB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67615 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene This is probably the book I should have written, but with a little more humor and attention to Yahaa-the-Horselover (the second Baptist, so to speak)...  <><><><><><><> How did you get through that entire treatise without a single mention of 'gnosticism'? >From a previous message: http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg12139.html http://tinyurl.com/zmnt6 I mentioned a review of Susskind's "Landscape" (presently on loan from the library): http://www.fourmilab.ch/fourmilog/archives/2006-03/000664.html http://tinyurl.com/kmccx Which includes: "Suppose this is the case: we're inside a simulation designed by a freckle-faced superkid for extra credit in her fifth grade science class. Is this something we could discover, or must it, like so many aspects of Theory 2, be forever hidden from our scientific investigation? Surprisingly, this variety of Theory 1 is quite amenable to experiment: neither revelation nor faith is required. What would we expect to see if we inhabited a simulation? Well, there would probably be a discrete time step and granularity in position fixed by the time and position resolution of the simulation-check, and check: the Planck time and distance appear to behave this way in our universe. There would probably be an absolute speed limit to constrain the extent we could directly explore and impose a locality constraint on propagating updates throughout the simulation-check: speed of light. There would be a limit on the extent of the universe we could observe-check: the Hubble radius is an absolute horizon we cannot penetrate, and the last scattering surface of the cosmic background radiation limits electromagnetic observation to a still smaller radius. There would be a limit on the accuracy of physical measurements due to the finite precision of the computation in the simulation-check: Heisenberg uncertainty principle-and, as in games, randomness would be used as a fudge when precision limits were hit-check: quantum mechanics." -Charles L. Dodgson ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 17 19:07:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3I27Cut008309; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:07:13 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3I279nL008285; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:07:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:07:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2006-03-10) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.6 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Message-ID: <001201c6628c$c6877f30$0e027841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: Re: OT: The Matrix as Ontology Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 21:06:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C66262.DD2AE210" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67616 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C66262.DD2AE210 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000F_01C66262.DD2AE210" ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C66262.DD2AE210 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankWe Vorts are often treated to superb homolies by both Jones and = Grimer... never excelling the Matrix as a treatise. Never too late to write that book Jones.. save us from Harry Potter and = the DaVinci Code. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C66262.DD2AE210 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
We Vorts are often treated to superb homolies by both Jones and=20 Grimer... never excelling the Matrix as a treatise.
 
Never too late to write that book Jones.. save us from Harry Potter = and the=20 DaVinci Code.
 
Richard

 

------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C66262.DD2AE210-- ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C66262.DD2AE210 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000d01c6628c$c5f948f0$0e027841@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C66262.DD2AE210-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 17 19:26:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3I2QaoS015208; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:26:37 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3I2QYEl015183; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:26:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:26:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <20060417212530.zrem07lc0wc4kcog@webmail.usfamily.net> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 21:25:30 -0500 From: temalloy@usfamily.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: muionium and Orgone MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67617 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: someone posted; level of hot air - then the best candidate material - which comes to mind at this writing- for the identity of the active modality of that cell (i.e. the "orgone" whatever that is) This is really interesting because you can build an orgone accumulator and experiment with it. I have a book on the subject As I recall the author's name is DeMayo, if someone is interested I'll find his URL. I have previously posted about one of Reich's experiments in which he heated beach sand to incandescense and added it to sterile growth medium, he subjequently got a tan in the winter with his clothes on. Orgone boxes have been used to relieve cancer. Some people claim that they can make it rain with a Cloud Buster. As far as what it is, it is associated with Chi, the life force. It's ability to relieve cancer would suggest that it ogments the life force. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 17 19:41:01 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3I2emFA020138; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:40:49 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3I2el57020116; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:40:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:40:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2006-03-10) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.6 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Message-ID: <000c01c66291$79aeda00$0e027841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: O.T: Name suggestion for book Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 21:40:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C66267.90585760" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67618 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C66267.90585760 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0009_01C66267.90585760" ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C66267.90585760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankI propose Jones Beene write a book and entitle it ..." The = Incorrigibles"... Line at book store forms behind me. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C66267.90585760 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
I propose Jones Beene write a book and entitle it  ..." = The=20 Incorrigibles"... Line at book store forms behind me.

Richard

------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C66267.90585760-- ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C66267.90585760 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000701c66291$792537a0$0e027841@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C66267.90585760-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 17 19:44:40 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3I2iTT9021477; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:44:29 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3I2iRbd021454; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:44:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:44:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: "Hoyt A. Stearns jr." To: Subject: RE: Muonium Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:44:22 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67619 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: According to Dewey Larson's Reciprocal System of physics, the muon is "cosmic argon", that is argon with time and space interchanged (hence the name "reciprocal system"). All of the 117 possible elements have cosmic equivalents, for some of which conventional physics has exotic particle names. By geometry, it is not possible to have an atomic number greater than 117. Cosmic argon is an inert gas in the time domain, so can not form cosmic compounds, however, it has cosmic mass, so gravitates into time domain aggregates. It can take a charge ( a rotational vibration ) and have isotopes (captured neutrinos). All atoms are composed of photons rotating into three scalar dimensions (rotating onto themselves). The photon frequency is related to the Rydberg frequency. For every atom, there is a cosmic (inverse) equivalent. P.S. Larson's Reciprocal system accounts for all observed particles, however it also postulates a particle we call the (1,1,1) particle that has not been observed. It is related to hydrogen. Perhaps it is the BlackLightPower Hydrino. Hypothetical cosmic (inverse) humans would observe muons as argon. The cosmic humans would have a lifetime (to us) of ~6 nanoseconds and extend ~70 light years in height ( we see such things as individual cosmic rays, as they are aggregated in time, not space and are randomly dispersed in space). Hoyt Stearns Scottsdale, Arizona http://members.cox.net/hoyt-stearns see http://www.reciprocalsystem.com/isus/rec/reciprocity_11.htm http://www.rstheory.com/ -----Original Message----- From: Mark Goldes [mailto:mgoldes@msn.com] Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 10:24 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Muonium Jones, This makes my day. Wonderful! May it prove accurate... Mark >From: "Jones Beene" >Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com >To: "vortex" >Subject: Muonium Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 08:57:21 -0700 > >Here is your decorated egg-du-jour, and don't passover it without an >open-minded look... as it could be a Faberge-in-the-rough. > >There has been a flurry of recent glossy fringe-journalism last week >(tending more towards SciFi then real Sci) and going well beyond the >credibility level of even LENR, which is focused on the so-called "Joe >Cell" and its active agent "orgone." > >Unfortunately, this online effort is almost completely devoid of scientific >factuality - but instead - overloaded with anecdote. Some of it is >intriguing. Nevertheless, despite enormous and inevitable skepticism even >from normally open-minded observers due to the subject matter, there could >yet be some small grain of truth to it - a microgram of sodium-chloride, >shall we say. > >Let me say first, that for having the courage to voice these ideas, >Sterling Allan should be applauded, even if 99% of them turn out to be >stinkers (how does orgone smell, anyway?). Onwards and upwards, plus-ultra. > >Here is the Wiki site for the muon. >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muon > >If you were educated in physics several generations ago, you may have >trouble dropping the old name: mu meson, as the muon is not classified as a >meson anymore. Unlike the electron, the muon anti-particle (+charge) is as >likely to turn up in 3-space as the negative variety. The best feature of >the +muon is it can pick up an electron and form an atom - which is know as >"muonium." That part is fact. > >Some of the following speculation is loosely based on other factual details >- together with speculation about the possible misidentification of many >unknown "agents" which can turn up in energy anomalies, even >"below-ground-state" hydrogen - but most likely, the putative "orgone". >Neither the putative hydrino nor the putative orgone have been ruled out as >being basically: a longer-lived form of muonium. > >Muons have a mass of 105.6 MeV/c2, which is 207 times the electron mass and >have a lifetime in our 3-space of several microseconds (normally). Despite >their short lifetime, we are surrounded by them, as they are constantly >formed in large quantities by cosmic rays and get to the surface fast. >Since - on decay - the associated neutrino ends up carrying away most of >the excess energy, they are NOT a factor in "normal" accounting of energy - >although it was noted as far back as 1989-90 that the fact that SLC Utah >gets much more muon flux than does Boston due to the elevation and thin >air - could be relevant to success in "certain" experiments. > >Since the interaction of the negative muon is similar to the electron, the >muon can be thought of as an extremely heavy electron, however the (+)muon >is more like a light proton. > >The muon atom, muonium, consisting of a +muon and a normal electron will be >almost the identical size as monatomic hydrogen, but about 9 times less >massive. These are normally short-lived but there is the possibility that >if two of them are formed together simultaneously, so that a molecule is >formed, then the lifetime will be extended - or that the QM waveform will >be localized to such a degree that they can be appear "serially" in a >succession of short lifetimes and appear as longer lived. > >So far - no evidence has been discovered in high energy experiments - where >the lifetime of muonium is greatly extended. As for lower energy >experiments - all one can say now is this: if the "Joe cell" proponents can >"stand up and deliver" on some level of scientific validation, instead of >the enormous level of hot air - then the best candidate material - which >comes to mind at this writing- for the identity of the active modality of >that cell (i.e. the "orgone" whatever that is) is known to physics today as >an extension or a longer-lived version of molecular-muonium. > >In the mid 1970s, experimental physicists devised experiments to probe the >weak interaction, and they expected the collision of neutrinos and protons >to turn the neutrino into a muon, and the proton into debris. > >They were surprised to discover that two muons, one negatively and one >positively charged, result from such collision. This generated a good deal >of theoretical discussion, until a consensus emerged on how that positive >muon comes about. The neutrino/proton collision produces not only proton >debris (pions) and a negative muon, but a charm quark, and that quark soon >decays into a strange quark, a muon neutrino, and a positive muon. Quite a >large and strange quark, n'est pas? > >IF ... and let me warn that this is about the biggest IF ever put into >circulation on any other date than April 1 ... OK, if any low energy >device capable of "flipping" a large percentage of the normal neutrino flux >on earth's surface - from the "massless" into the "massive" variety can be >built (even with a great deal of luck) and if the device has a lot of >available protons in it (i.e. H2O) then yes you will have some increased >likelihood of neutrino-proton collisions, and the result could be a >population of thermalized positive muons available in a compact space - >small enough to form molecular-muonium and IF (multilayered big "ifs") that >molecular-muonium agent had a life time in the millisecond range and >increase the QM probability of secondary formation of same - then, yes, it >could possibly be used as a power source. > >What would be the main characteristic of this power source? Well that is >the interesting part, and were it not for that particular detail, then I >would not have wasted my time with all of the above. > >The main characteristic of this putative power source ( derived from a >neutrino "flipper" and molecular-muonium maker) - would be an ultimate >"implosion" together with an electric charge - as the rather voluminous >molecular-muonium decayed into neutrinos and electrons... This will not >mean much to you until you explore the reports of the Joe Cell on an >anecdotal level - but it is close to what happens and there is no reason to >report it this odd way if it were not true. > >... not that the anecdotal reports are "even" to the level of >fringe-reliability (that of a good SciFi story) yet. > >But they are very... shall we say, Jules-Vernesque... in implications. > >Jones > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 17 14:07:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3HL7CD8020280; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 14:07:12 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3HL79Bi020244; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 14:07:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 14:07:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Sender:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=yrkWinaHMwHBoGoa8UjmZjHPgANZ1uryZGL6PyaD8zZbLKm309BOCNgM0MP7toV3igzRWdf85okWtoiImWu7MTuMDETPOf5Q6to7pqg/EAGy7rgnFgk8XT7adToKurKsK9Bt3nPM2XYzFf/QgwA/WngECn+NHtTpCmoMkQ0R75g= ; Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.1.20060417165836.01da20c8@pop> X-Sender: philip.winestone@pop X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.1.1 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 17:06:21 -0400 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Philip Winestone Subject: Re: OT: The Matrix as Ontology In-Reply-To: <006601c6625b$2381e860$6401a8c0@NuDell> References: <006601c6625b$2381e860$6401a8c0@NuDell> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67613 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends5 Status: RO X-Status: I hate to rain on your parade, but the ideas contained in the matrix movies have been around for FAR longer than computers. Biggest problem is that all the endless "philosophical" discussion will get the participants almost nowhere, except for giving them some sort of vicarious short-lived excitement. The true exploration of the "matrix-style" philosophy is an exploration totally within; not through books and professors, etc. - and it is far from easy. The ingestion of external knowledge will get one only so far, then ultimately all this self-enhancing knowledge has to be jettisoned. The good thing is that a very small percentage of the students of "matrix philosophy" will see a glimmer through a very small crack, and will embark on a totally independent type of exploration, free of dogma, scientific or philosophical, which may or may not result in something. P. At 01:11 PM 4/17/2006 -0700, you wrote: >Forget the feeble antics of the DVC and move-on to some heretical >reality-code, Bro... > >Many educated, doctoral level thinkers like Massimo Pigliucci, Jake >Horsley et al., have been so impressed with the (largely unintended) >theological, epistemological and ontological implication of the movie >trilogy - Matrix - that a mini-industry is forming: an impressive >outpouring of thought and effort expended on this once rather dry and >arcane subject: "what is real". The film has even become the basis of >numerous well-attended courses in the once-shunned Philosophy Departments >at major universities. > >If L.Ron Hubbub and his minions can spawn a whole new religion based on >ridiculous, self-indulgent, 3rd-rate SciFi ramblings, then the Matrix may >yet end-up being the basis for the next world-wide united-religious >movement... I hear that the Vatican (or at least Opus Dei) is already >looking to relocate in El Segundo ;-) ... and what shall we call it: >Neoteny ? (that's dpi for double pun intended) > >You can ditch the film's non-stop action, 'spent-round' look-and-feel, >superb f-X glitz, overworked symbolism, annoying posturing, vague >androgynous leather-jacketed romance, and the hip-pop'n-Ncrowd-cachet, and >even then there is still, underlying it all: surprising profundity ... a >rather deep rabbit hole, shall we say, Alice? > >Four literary offerings of note, may help the seeker-of-truth (IOW the >average-vo) obtain a less-foggy glimpse through the "looking glass" ... >and may be had at Amazon.com. EXPLORING THE MATRIX is an anthology of >eighteen contributions, mostly from writers classified as "cyberpunk and >science-fiction visionaries"... which is not exactly an endorsement of >expertise in ontology, but the essays are insightful. THE MATRIX AND >PHILOSOPHY: Welcome to the Desert of the Real, by William Irwin (Editor) >is better but more erudite and a bit neocon. "Many people recognize The >Matrix as a retelling of "the greatest story ever told..." not to mention: >we're not sure that any Nazarite could dodge that much live ammo. > >K J. Murtagh uses "Matrix " in his college philosophy course. In his >review he say of the Irwin book and the movie: "This book provides me >with an "in" that I can use in order to discuss very important >philosophical issues". It is often difficult to make the material "come to >life", especially when teaching a required course. By using this book, it >is possible to make the process much more enjoyable for students who would >otherwise be disinterested. A few highlights: > >Ch.1: Computers, Caves, and Oracles: Neo and Socrates- Compares Plato's >allegory of the cave to Neo's journey. An excellent discussion of what it >means to lead an examined life and seek the truth. Excellent segue into >the red pill/blue pill debate. > >Ch.6: The Machine-Made Ghost: Or, The Philosophy of Mind, Matrix Style- >Discusses Artificial Intelligence and the nature of the mind. The author >argues against dualism and favors a materialistic view. Leads to a >discussion on whether or not it would be theoretically possible for a >Matrix to exist and the presuppositions that are present in the movie with >regard to the nature of the mind. > >Ch.8: Fate, Freedom, and Foreknowledge: A discussion of fate, freedom, >omniscience and determinism. Even if they escaped the Matrix, would people >really be free? > >Ch.11: Happiness and Cypher's Choice: Is Ignorance Bliss?- My favorite >essay in the book. What do we make of Cypher's decision to try to return >to the Matrix? Is a decimated reality preferable to an artificial world >where you can "eat" a juicy steak and do not have to worry about Sentinels >trying to kill you? The author says that it is, and his argument is very >thought-provoking. > > >But two other collections of essays are even more interesting to me: >JOURNEY TO THE SOURCE: Decoding Matrix Trilogy, by Pradheep Challiyil is >one. And MATRIX WARRIOR - Being the One, by Jake Horsley is probably the >best of the lot. > >Horsley's exegesis, as other reviewers have also noted, consists of three >derivative claims about work-a-day reality as set out in Matrix - all of >which turn up in almost every work on modern ontology. > >1. "Reality" can be identical to a kind of self-imposed prison (i.e. >pre-Neo in his office, neither happy or fulfilled)... less a prison than a >constraining web which has been woven out of our encoded societal memes, >pressures and expectations. Like the big-birds say about the left coast, >"you can check out but you can never leave." > >2. We are born as slaves, oftentimes staying-on as willing slaves to this >duplicity - partaking in a shared hallucination... at least up until the >time when the more rebellious dare to "take the red pill" > >3. Humanity is little more than a >"food/energy/information/entertainment/biodiversity source" for a >higher-order of intelligence, even if that higher order has been recently >evolved (in the past 5000 years) from the common man himself (i.e. the >all-souls-divinity). > >Of course, when you add in the PKD-spawned material on the "real" >implications of VALIS and the fact that the higher-order of intelligence >may in fact have traveled here from another reality, then things get very >confusing as to whether divinity actually exists in 3-space "in the flesh" >as it were, or only in "spirit". Given that Valis may have been >manufactured, and that its intelligence is mechanical but superior - then >we have come full circle to Deus ex Machina. Not that anyone believes in >the physical reality of Valis... > >IOW - when we look at all the many nuances and implications of the Matrix >film trilogy - a lot can be "read into it" which was once the exclusive >province of egg-heads with Hessian monikers. But if you are so inclined >(even professorially inclined) and desirous of reaching a much broader >audience than the Kant-stand-Heidegger variety of resource - then, hey >take a blue pill now, pocket the red one, read more, and make up your mind >before doing anything rash ... > >... after all, bro, tha' "Nebuchadnezza" is a pretty funky ride, greatly >in need of some Smith-like pimping-up, and shared hallucinations aren't >all that bad. Kinda like the "placebo effect" ... i.e. who care if the >pill is fake when the cure is real. > >Chapter listing of MATRIX WARRIOR: 'NOT JUST A MOVIE, IT'S AN EXPERIENCE !' > >If these are not provocative enough enticement, then why are you still >reading this? > >(1) First Variable: LIVING IN A DREAM WORLD > Reality as a Snare: Postmodernist Twenty-First Century Fragmentation >(2) We Are Not Amused: Rules for Beginners >(3) The Seven Deadly Virtues: > Primary Motivating Factors for Plugged-in Humans >(4) Automatons 'R' Us >(2) Second Variable: THERE IS NO SPOON >(5) Hologram Ethics: Reality as Game-Plan >(6) Rules of Empowerment: DIY Unplugging >(7) Sins Against the State: Eight Cardinal Virtues of the Matrix Warrior >(8) The Vale of Soul-Making: Understanding the Matrix >(3) Third Variable: YOU THINK THAT'S AIR YOU'RE BREATHING ? >(9) Do You Believe in Fate ? The Sorcerer's Will to Freedom >(10) Life in the Matrix: Appropriate Responses to Illusory Stimuli >(11) You Are Not You: Life as Simulacra > >This is probably the book I should have written, but with a little more >humor and attention to Yahaa-the-Horselover (the second Baptist, so to >speak)... > >Yours unruly, > >Harry Tuttle, > Eng.d'loi & Neoromancer From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 17 21:16:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3I4GWsd020459; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 21:16:32 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3I4GU20020443; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 21:16:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 21:16:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Muonium Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 14:16:27 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <410-22006411717430421@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <410-22006411717430421@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta05sl.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.54.52] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Tue, 18 Apr 2006 04:16:27 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3I4GR4S020408 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67620 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Frederick Sparber's message of Mon, 17 Apr 2006 11:43:00 -0600: Hi, [snip] >316 Stainless Steel Alloys: >Chemical Formula >Fe, <0.03% C, 16-18.5% Cr, 10-14% Ni, 2-3% Mo, <2% Mn, <1% Si, <0.045% P, ><0.03% S [snip] I already thought that Fe was acting as a Mills catalyst in these cells, now I see that in the 316 Stainless that they use, Mo is also present. Bonus point. (Ions formed at the anode migrate to the cathode where they get converted back into atoms, at which point they can catalyze Mills reactions). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 17 21:37:34 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3I4bDMs026660; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 21:37:13 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3I4bCkg026641; Mon, 17 Apr 2006 21:37:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 21:37:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: "Hoyt A. Stearns jr." To: Subject: RE: OT: The Matrix as Ontology Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 21:37:10 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 In-Reply-To: <8C83095362A2B7F-291C-490F@mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com> Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67621 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have no doubt that much of the "Matrix" is correct, except for the nature of the creators of the simulation (also see movies "The 13th Floor", "Forbidden Planet", and "Dark City", among others). The "energy" analogy refers to something English has no word for, but other cultures do have, such as "Prana", "Chi". This is a very real and powerful reality, easily measured. It is really, in our terms, roughly equivalent to "information flow" or a computer's information processing load. The universe is actually powered by our "wanting" or attraction of this kind of energy, so the battery analogy was appropriate. We are inside a "StarTrek Holodeck" virtual reality. The difference from the popular fiction is that we programmed this simulation ourselves for the adventure of it. There is no "bad stuff" outside it that we need to encounter. The simulation is infinitely malleable. Nothing can assert into our experience that we do not program. There are some very important points to be made about it: 1. We each have our own private holodeck independent of all others (there are many anomalies that can not be explained any other way). (Good Reference: see "Ship in a Bottle" and "Elementary Dear Data" from "Startrek Next Generation" for a magnificant science fiction story). 2. Unlike StarTrek, the way we appear inside the simulation is not like outside. 3. We can program anything we like into the simulation, including chaos. Since you programmed 100% of the simulation, it doesn't make any sense to complain or worry about anything. If you don't like something, just reprogram it (why did you program it to something not wanted anyway?). Take a course or two at the Monroe Institute for pracice stepping outside the "holodeck" for a breather or two and perhaps learning how to reprogram the simulation to your liking :-) . http://www.monroeinstitute.com/ Try some spoon bending or winning at craps to help reorient your beliefs. Attend the International Remote Viewing conference soon in Las Vegas (http://www.rvconference.org/). For most , fussing with the rules of the game are considered "cheating", and that's certainly a valid perspective, but for others of us engineering and programmer types, it's fun to tinker with the clockwork ). Also, read the Seth material for extensive technical information, or Abraham-Hicks for practical Holodeck programming techniques. http://www.sethnet.org/ http://www.abraham-hicks.com Hoyt Stearns Scottsdale, Arizona http://members.cox.net/hoyt-stearns http://turbotip.webhop.net -----Original Message----- From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net [mailto:hohlrauml6d@netscape.net] Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 5:22 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: OT: The Matrix as Ontology -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene This is probably the book I should have written, but with a little more humor and attention to Yahaa-the-Horselover (the second Baptist, so to speak)...  <><><><><><><> How did you get through that entire treatise without a single mention of 'gnosticism'? >From a previous message: http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg12139.html http://tinyurl.com/zmnt6 I mentioned a review of Susskind's "Landscape" (presently on loan from the library): http://www.fourmilab.ch/fourmilog/archives/2006-03/000664.html http://tinyurl.com/kmccx Which includes: "Suppose this is the case: we're inside a simulation designed by a freckle-faced superkid for extra credit in her fifth grade science class. Is this something we could discover, or must it, like so many aspects of Theory 2, be forever hidden from our scientific investigation? Surprisingly, this variety of Theory 1 is quite amenable to experiment: neither revelation nor faith is required. What would we expect to see if we inhabited a simulation? Well, there would probably be a discrete time step and granularity in position fixed by the time and position resolution of the simulation-check, and check: the Planck time and distance appear to behave this way in our universe. There would probably be an absolute speed limit to constrain the extent we could directly explore and impose a locality constraint on propagating updates throughout the simulation-check: speed of light. There would be a limit on the extent of the universe we could observe-check: the Hubble radius is an absolute horizon we cannot penetrate, and the last scattering surface of the cosmic background radiation limits electromagnetic observation to a still smaller radius. There would be a limit on the accuracy of physical measurements due to the finite precision of the computation in the simulation-check: Heisenberg uncertainty principle-and, as in games, randomness would be used as a fudge when precision limits were hit-check: quantum mechanics." -Charles L. Dodgson ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 18 03:55:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3IAtn3d024519; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 03:55:49 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3IAtgww024449; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 03:55:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 03:55:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=eFj0N5mhM19LTbql6Jf92fEip09Ro1bMmA66oTXXHD/Hdj7bsY1xdwYescAE5SPn; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064218105530139@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 04:55:30 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94022eb2737e6c8810ea91760c50fffdc30350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.7 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67622 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Thanks for the patent references, Terry. But I think the methods they use for charging Concentric Spheres/Cylinders are too cumbersome. Use of an Electron LINAC to draw electrons off the inhabited inner sphere/cylinder (long cigar-shaped craft have been reported) to charge the outer sphere negative but totally independent of the earth's electrostatic charge-fields. Moving electrons from the inner to outer sphere and back where up to tens of Mev electron energies are required is a no-brainer with a small medical-sized LINAC and a hot filament emitter cavity on the outer shell. By analogy , the electron-proton fields of the neutral hydrogen atom is virtually oblivious to external electric -magnetic fields, but the gravity force acts on it. IOW, a positive or negative "shell" around a positive or negative inner shell feels the gravity force, which seems to be a function of and proportional to Field Intensity (Volts/Meter) and Energy Density (Joules/Meter^3) and the sign of the charge on the outer sphere/cylinder. ZPE induced, Force and Energy Amplification is a distinct possibility. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Thanks for the patent references, Terry.
But I think the methods they use for charging Concentric Spheres/Cylinders
are too cumbersome.
Use of an Electron LINAC to draw electrons off the inhabited
inner sphere/cylinder (long cigar-shaped craft have been reported)
to charge the outer sphere negative but totally independent
of the earth's electrostatic charge-fields.
 
Moving electrons from the inner to outer sphere and
back  where up to tens of Mev electron energies are
required is a no-brainer with a small medical-sized
LINAC  and a hot filament emitter cavity on the outer shell.
 
By analogy , the electron-proton fields of the neutral hydrogen
atom is virtually oblivious to external electric -magnetic fields, but
the gravity force acts on it.
IOW, a positive or negative "shell" around a positive or negative
inner shell feels the gravity force, which seems to be a function
of and proportional to Field Intensity (Volts/Meter)  and
Energy Density (Joules/Meter^3) and the sign of
the charge on the outer sphere/cylinder.
 
ZPE induced, Force and Energy Amplification is a distinct
possibility.
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 18 04:09:41 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3IB9TrU029549; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 04:09:30 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3IB9SEP029531; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 04:09:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 04:09:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=CK/T4dbo7Bo8Kceia0sc8IQmIq+AHkaF602LuxC7yZQ/pQe9TJqtwDOtJRkX3A0y; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006421811922335@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re; Trial and Error vs Alien Intelligence Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 05:09:22 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940defeb4587ca78405bb3c4f69756c37df350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.7 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67623 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII In spite of the portrayal of Space Aliens as "Super-Intelligent Beings", might their impressive technology evolved strictly by trial and error, (somewhat like ants or hornets) and their IQ is at the ambient temperature of the planet Pluto? By example the 16th -19th century experimentalists were making great technological strides until the theoreticians came along and slowed things down. :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
In spite of the portrayal of Space Aliens as "Super-Intelligent
Beings", might their impressive technology evolved strictly
by trial and error, (somewhat like ants or hornets) and
their  IQ is at the ambient temperature of the planet Pluto?
 
By example the  16th -19th century experimentalists were
making great technological strides until the theoreticians
came along and slowed things down.  :-)
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 18 05:02:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3IC2jAV018143; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 05:02:45 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3IC2hm5018127; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 05:02:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 05:02:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=sxZlI4AfHGCIT2KGVxqUMWrRfwb419XShOola0ysM/SU16iDlx+kyQMzdMvoDe2q; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006421812231218@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 06:02:31 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94056d5ead403305d21bc12528875ae3abf350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.5 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67624 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Interesting history of Ginzton and LINACs: http://www.stanford.edu/~siegman/ginzton_memoir.html "During the mid-1950s Ginzton and his colleagues also constructed a 10-foot, 35-MeV accelerator for cancer therapy at Michael Reese Hospital in Chicago, a 20-foot, 60-MeV linac for cancer research at Argonne National Laboratory, and several research accelerators including a 6-foot, 5-MeV linac for medial research at General Electric. After taking over the leadership at Varian six years later, Ginzton continued to crusade for the use of small accelerators in cancer treatment and steadfastly supported many years of related but unprofitable development work which ultimately led to a line of small electron linacs called "Clinacs". By the time of Ginzton's death, some 4,000 of these had been installed in hospitals around the world and were treating over one million patients annually. These machines were a source of great satisfaction to Ginzton, since his father had died of cancer. " A quote from Ginzton: "Grow and become educated, but do not equate professional training with education. Try to learn how to think. Attempt to do what you want to do. Making a living is not enough." ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/18/2006 4:56:17 AM Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity Thanks for the patent references, Terry. But I think the methods they use for charging Concentric Spheres/Cylinders are too cumbersome. Use of an Electron LINAC to draw electrons off the inhabited inner sphere/cylinder (long cigar-shaped craft have been reported) to charge the outer sphere negative but totally independent of the earth's electrostatic charge-fields. Moving electrons from the inner to outer sphere and back where up to tens of Mev electron energies are required is a no-brainer with a small medical-sized LINAC and a hot filament emitter cavity on the outer shell. By analogy , the electron-proton fields of the neutral hydrogen atom is virtually oblivious to external electric -magnetic fields, but the gravity force acts on it. IOW, a positive or negative "shell" around a positive or negative inner shell feels the gravity force, which seems to be a function of and proportional to Field Intensity (Volts/Meter) and Energy Density (Joules/Meter^3) and the sign of the charge on the outer sphere/cylinder. ZPE induced, Force and Energy Amplification is a distinct possibility. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Interesting history of Ginzton and LINACs:
 
 
"During the mid-1950s Ginzton and his colleagues also constructed a 10-foot, 35-MeV accelerator for cancer therapy at Michael Reese Hospital in Chicago, a 20-foot, 60-MeV linac for cancer research at Argonne National Laboratory, and several research accelerators including a 6-foot, 5-MeV linac for medial research at General Electric. After taking over the leadership at Varian six years later, Ginzton continued to crusade for the use of small accelerators in cancer treatment and steadfastly supported many years of related but unprofitable development work which ultimately led to a line of small electron linacs called "Clinacs". By the time of Ginzton's death, some 4,000 of these had been installed in hospitals around the world and were treating over one million patients annually. These machines were a source of great satisfaction to Ginzton, since his father had died of cancer. "
 
A quote from Ginzton:
 
"Grow and become educated, but do not equate professional training with education. Try to learn how to think. Attempt to do what you want to do. Making a living is not enough."
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/18/2006 4:56:17 AM
Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity

Thanks for the patent references, Terry.
But I think the methods they use for charging Concentric Spheres/Cylinders
are too cumbersome.
Use of an Electron LINAC to draw electrons off the inhabited
inner sphere/cylinder (long cigar-shaped craft have been reported)
to charge the outer sphere negative but totally independent
of the earth's electrostatic charge-fields.
 
Moving electrons from the inner to outer sphere and
back  where up to tens of Mev electron energies are
required is a no-brainer with a small medical-sized
LINAC  and a hot filament emitter cavity on the outer shell.
 
By analogy , the electron-proton fields of the neutral hydrogen
atom is virtually oblivious to external electric -magnetic fields, but
the gravity force acts on it.
IOW, a positive or negative "shell" around a positive or negative
inner shell feels the gravity force, which seems to be a function
of and proportional to Field Intensity (Volts/Meter)  and
Energy Density (Joules/Meter^3) and the sign of
the charge on the outer sphere/cylinder.
 
ZPE induced, Force and Energy Amplification is a distinct
possibility.
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 18 07:34:35 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3IEYJuS020658; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 07:34:19 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3IEYHo6020641; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 07:34:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 07:34:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <002b01c662f5$2850c790$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: Subject: Re: Muonium Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 07:34:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67625 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hoyt, > According to Dewey Larson's Reciprocal System of physics, the > muon is "cosmic argon", that is argon with time and space > interchanged. Interesting. Especially in the context of the hydrino. > P.S. Larson's Reciprocal system accounts ... postulates a > particle we call the (1,1,1) particle that has not been > observed. It is related to hydrogen. Perhaps it is the > BlackLightPower Hydrino. That is the first time I have heard of that; and you apparently subscribe to the RS forum: http://forum.rstheory.com/index.php?sid=70eb708d2ba0792525b11d7a84992e2f Would you by any chance have more information from there, or elsewhere, related to the hydrino and the muon-argon ? Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 18 08:10:00 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3IF9m2Q005442; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 08:09:48 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3IF9ltp005431; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 08:09:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 08:09:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Jo3N/dGe08Pfn7vsgSy3ZliiEdj0sq7l4TuAR99CSD8AqT7CmR9hGxVTDsj4/V0o; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006421815936424@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re; Poor-Boy Vacuum Pump Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 09:09:36 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940d151bc742581f00728e594dd6f95b52a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.94 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67626 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Re-circulating vacuum pump oil in a Deep Well Jet piped to a Convertible Jet Pump should make a fairly decent way of getting millitorr vacuum pressures. http://www.flotecpump.com/pdf/Page_34_2004.pdf http://www.hyvac.com/Products/Oil/pump_oil.htm I did this with a Jacuzzi pump and a scrap deep well jet using water for getting 20 torr vacuum. Especially if you get it cheap on eBay. :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Re-circulating vacuum pump oil in a Deep Well Jet piped to
a Convertible Jet Pump should make a fairly decent way of
getting millitorr vacuum pressures.
 
 
 
I did this with a Jacuzzi pump and a scrap deep well jet
using water for getting 20 torr vacuum.
 
Especially if you get it cheap on eBay.  :-)
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 18 09:27:54 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3IGRa0H008209; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 09:27:36 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3IGRXIP008180; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 09:27:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 09:27:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2006-03-10) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.6 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Message-ID: <001201c66304$f5c8e2c0$a2037841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: Re: Alliance for NanoHealth,.. Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 11:27:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C662DB.0C048320" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: <4pKu9C.A.w_B.1NRREB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67629 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C662DB.0C048320 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000F_01C662DB.0C079060" ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C662DB.0C079060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankPhilip wrote.. >My question still stands: "Why?" =20 >Why is it necessary to have teams of lobbyists to promote action on = energy when it's all too obvious that many avenues have >to be explored = in depth; avenues that have demonstrated at least some initial promise? = And it's really not an either/or >situation. It doesn't take = substantial sums of money (in government terms) to put a variety of = energy research projects on a >sound footing, including (or perhaps, = especially) CF. =20 Howdy Philip, Why?? Because the road to hell is paved wiith fond intentions ( and now = lobbyists). We have a whole new ball game, new ways of making money, new = concepts of what business is, what represents reality. Didn't Donald Rumsfeild just state " deficits no longer matter".. He is = correct when you think about it.. in today's world. US Universities now = devote much time to lobby for US funding.. it is a huge chunk of change = and like politicians seeking campaign funding, it is become their = lifeblood. It no longer matters what research,, only that it is keyed to = the latest buzz word.. today the buzzword is " Nano". Tomorrow.. who = knows, who cares as long as it sells to congress . IT'S THE GREAT GAME !!! PLAY BALL !! Richard ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C662DB.0C079060 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Philip wrote..

>My question still stands: "Why?" 
>Why is it = necessary to=20 have teams of lobbyists to promote action on energy when it's all too = obvious=20 that many avenues have >to be explored in depth; avenues that have=20 demonstrated at least some initial promise?  And it's really not an = either/or >situation.  It doesn't take substantial sums of money = (in=20 government terms) to put a variety of energy research projects on a = >sound=20 footing, including (or perhaps, especially) CF. 

 

Howdy Philip,

Why??  Because the road to hell is paved wiith fond intentions ( = and now=20 lobbyists). We have a whole new ball game, new ways of making money, new = concepts of what business is, what represents reality.

Didn't Donald Rumsfeild just state  " deficits no longer = matter".. He is=20 correct when you think about it.. in today's world. US Universities now = devote=20 much time to lobby for US funding.. it is a huge chunk of change and = like=20 politicians seeking campaign funding, it is become their lifeblood. It = no longer=20 matters what research,, only that it is keyed to the latest buzz word.. = today=20 the buzzword is " Nano". Tomorrow.. who knows, who cares as long as it = sells to=20 congress .

IT'S THE GREAT GAME !!!  PLAY BALL !!

Richard

------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C662DB.0C079060-- ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C662DB.0C048320 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000d01c66304$f4bf13e0$a2037841@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C662DB.0C048320-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 18 09:36:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3IGabvA012478; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 09:36:38 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3IGaURI012412; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 09:36:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 09:36:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: "Hoyt A. Stearns jr." To: Subject: RE: Muonium Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 09:36:26 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 In-Reply-To: <002b01c662f5$2850c790$6401a8c0@NuDell> Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67630 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You might be interested in this article: http://www.rsystem.org/rs/cwkvk/muon.htm Also there's plenty more on the Reciprocal System in http://www.rssystem.org in addition to the other two websites. Mention of the (1-1-1) particle: http://www.reciprocalsystem.com/qp/qp05.htm Hoyt Stearns -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene [mailto:jonesb9@pacbell.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 7:34 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Muonium Hoyt, > According to Dewey Larson's Reciprocal System of physics, the > muon is "cosmic argon", that is argon with time and space > interchanged. Interesting. Especially in the context of the hydrino. > P.S. Larson's Reciprocal system accounts ... postulates a > particle we call the (1,1,1) particle that has not been > observed. It is related to hydrogen. Perhaps it is the > BlackLightPower Hydrino. That is the first time I have heard of that; and you apparently subscribe to the RS forum: http://forum.rstheory.com/index.php?sid=70eb708d2ba0792525b11d7a84992e2f Would you by any chance have more information from there, or elsewhere, related to the hydrino and the muon-argon ? Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 18 09:40:40 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3IGeMBl014864; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 09:40:23 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3IGeK4p014825; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 09:40:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 09:40:20 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=rlIQvXy1dhaN+MOMtt7Vqfyui3OA3j5lVlFCeuUAZKccfEEWtE1yUrEj76QxkLoa; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006421816400498@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Poor-Boy Vacuum Pump Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:40:00 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9401612cc25032331ef5de4828c6c4ab2db350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.105 Resent-Message-ID: <29GYe.A.hnD.zZRREB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67631 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII This combination plus an exhausting-recirculating tank worked for me: http://cgi.ebay.com/Jacuzzi-Bros-Jet-Ejector-for-Deep-Well-w-Check-Valve_W0QQitemZ6050919771QQcategoryZ42132QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem http://cgi.ebay.com/1-2-HP-Centrifugal-Electric-Water-Pump-Pond-Pool-Farm_W0QQitemZ4456440355QQcategoryZ20732QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Pump -----> Ejector ------> Vented Oil Tank----> gases out | | vacuum Line | <--- Oil Return to pump suction intake From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/18/2006 9:10:58 AM Subject: Re; Poor-Boy Vacuum Pump Re-circulating vacuum pump oil in a Deep Well Jet piped to a Convertible Jet Pump should make a fairly decent way of getting millitorr vacuum pressures. http://www.flotecpump.com/pdf/Page_34_2004.pdf http://www.hyvac.com/Products/Oil/pump_oil.htm I did this with a Jacuzzi pump and a scrap deep well jet using water for getting 20 torr vacuum. Especially if you get it cheap on eBay. :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
This combination plus an exhausting-recirculating tank worked
for me:
 
 
 
 
      Pump -----> Ejector ------> Vented Oil Tank----> gases out
                                |                                           |
                       vacuum Line                            |
       <--- Oil Return to pump suction  intake
 
Sent: 4/18/2006 9:10:58 AM
Subject: Re; Poor-Boy Vacuum Pump

Re-circulating vacuum pump oil in a Deep Well Jet piped to
a Convertible Jet Pump should make a fairly decent way of
getting millitorr vacuum pressures.
 
 
 
I did this with a Jacuzzi pump and a scrap deep well jet
using water for getting 20 torr vacuum.
 
Especially if you get it cheap on eBay.  :-)
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 18 09:48:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3IGlfoT018989; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 09:47:42 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3IGlcmk018952; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 09:47:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 09:47:38 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: ReRe: Alliance for NanoHealth, Dr. Mauro Ferrari Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 12:56:46 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.1.20060418111248.01e26738@pop> X-Rcpt-To: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67632 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The path of action is open to all, Phillip. You can choose to read the papers available, and work the field. If you feel for some reason unable to do this, you can contribute monetarily to one of the many projects ongoing in the field. The best person to answer your question is yourself. Because that's all there is. There is no government. There is no industry. There is no academia. There is only the person who asks and answers the question. K. -----Original Message----- From: Philip Winestone [mailto:philip.winestone@rogers.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 11:25 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: ReRe: Alliance for NanoHealth, Dr. Mauro Ferrari 'Morning Richard, My question still stands: "Why?" Why is it necessary to have teams of lobbyists to promote action on energy when it's all too obvious that many avenues have to be explored in depth; avenues that have demonstrated at least some initial promise? And it's really not an either/or situation. It doesn't take substantial sums of money (in government terms) to put a variety of energy research projects on a sound footing, including (or perhaps, especially) CF. Heavens! If, over the past 17 years, CF researchers have come up with some great, but as yet unfinished, information, working on a shoestring, think of what they could do if they had some reasonable level of consistent funding. This scenario isn't rocket science. What do we pay our government geniuses for (yours and mine), if not to take hard looks at the world around us, and make good (not necessarily perfect) decisions based on needs, not simply schmoozing? Any such research should be ongoing, and should continue even after, at some not-too-distant point, the results are handed over to industry to do what industry does best: make practical, profit-making applications. I'll get off my soap-box now. Philip. At 07:28 PM 4/16/2006 -0500, you wrote: Philip wrote.. "The indication for a steady increase in research funding is apparent across all science, except CF" >And at this critical point in time, one wonders why (without, of course, delving into conspiracy theories)... Howdy Philip, The article goes on the describe Dr. Ferrari as being a "charismatic scholar" and he is the author of the NCI $144 mil initiative. In Texan speak, that means he was the guy that hustled up the money from Uncle Sugar via NCI. The problem facing the CF initiative is the lack of a presence in D.C. The way the game is played, the money comes from Uncle Sugar, some is diverted to lobbyists that go back to the feed trough for more.. etc. We have a merry go round and we wind up watching the government fund the organizations that lobby. Tom DeLay was a piker. The CF people either pony up some serious money for lobbyists to start the circle.. or keep standing outside looking in the windows of the candy store. Richard From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 18 09:54:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3IGsYhc021869; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 09:54:34 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3IGsWRH021847; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 09:54:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 09:54:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 12:54:29 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C8311FE4BF4A6D-F54-1350A@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Contact Vega Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.65 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67633 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The star that starred with star Jodie Foster is starring in a new Nature article: http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20060410/vega_spa.html She's spinning so fast she's about to fly apart (Vega, not Jodie). Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 18 10:10:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3IHAEDl030435; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:10:15 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3IHAB9s030395; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:10:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:10:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060418130249.03da8b10@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:10:00 -0400 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Recent "Google Alert" stuff on cold fusion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67634 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The usual lame-brained attack: http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1144965013477&call_pageid=968332188774&col=968350116467 This includes some vicious garbage about Taleyarkhan. He is accused of "removing an instrument" from the laboratory. As if the accusers are not capable of moving the instrument back in again! Here is a strange comment: http://www.ucsdguardian.org/cgi-bin/features?art=2006_04_17_02 "Saxena thinks that these obstacles can be overcome and that ethanol is a good stepping stone for energy evolution. 'Ethanol as an energy source is a good interim solution until we are able to accomplish hydrogen economy, fuel cells and cold-fusion technologies,' he said." I wonder if it is intended to be a joke. It does not sound like it. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 18 10:18:16 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3IHI4EN002189; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:18:05 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3IHI1Vf002158; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:18:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:18:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060418131207.03d2b850@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:17:47 -0400 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Alliance for NanoHealth,.. In-Reply-To: <001201c66304$f5c8e2c0$a2037841@xptower> References: <001201c66304$f5c8e2c0$a2037841@xptower> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_13156578==.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67635 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=====================_13156578==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed RC Macaulay wrote: >US Universities now devote much time to lobby for US funding.. it is >a huge chunk of change and like politicians seeking campaign >funding, it is become their lifeblood. It no longer matters what >research,, only that it is keyed to the latest buzz word.. today the >buzzword is " Nano". Tomorrow.. who knows, who cares as long as it >sells to congress . > >IT'S THE GREAT GAME !!! PLAY BALL !! This game did not start yesterday. Around 1868, the New York Tribune described the Credit Mobilier scandal by noting that railroaders are "all willing to build railroads from the Sun to the Moon, provided they can have [federal government] subsidies." - D. H. Bain, "Empire Express : Building the First Transcontinental Railroad," p. 602 - Jed --=====================_13156578==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" RC Macaulay wrote:

US Universities now devote much time to lobby for US funding.. it is a huge chunk of change and like politicians seeking campaign funding, it is become their lifeblood. It no longer matters what research,, only that it is keyed to the latest buzz word.. today the buzzword is " Nano". Tomorrow.. who knows, who cares as long as it sells to congress .

IT'S THE GREAT GAME !!!  PLAY BALL !!

This game did not start yesterday.  Around 1868, the New York Tribune described the Credit Mobilier scandal by noting that railroaders are "all willing to build railroads from the Sun to the Moon, provided they can have [federal government] subsidies." - D. H. Bain, "Empire Express : Building the First Transcontinental Railroad," p. 602

- Jed
--=====================_13156578==.ALT-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 18 11:25:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3IIAIUD018392; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 11:11:25 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3IHvCMM015116; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:57:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:57:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <007f01c66311$6a09aa50$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <8C8311FE4BF4A6D-F54-1350A@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: Contact Vega Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:56:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67636 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: > The star that starred with star Jodie Foster is starring in a > new Nature article: http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20060410/vega_spa.html > She's spinning so fast she's about to fly apart (Vega, not > Jodie). Ha! and our Vega is no Nova either... And, why was Vega specifically chosen for the movie, you ask - or was that just an echo? The implication is that it could related to us on some level - maybe more than one level. As the article above suggests - we are looking right directly down the pole of Vega - most unusual -meaning that, among other things, it "could have been" our progenitor star system - the one that ejected Sol over 5 billion years ago. If memory serves, only one in every 10,000 stars would be oriented towards us with this direct polar alignment. When some very large stellar objects eject material but do not disappear themselves as in a Nova or SuperNova (possibly quark stars intitially) that ejected material issues directly out of the two poles. It is very likely that the progenitor star system to ours, if it can be seen today, even after that many years will be aligned directly polar to us as we would have retained as dynamic relics, all the vectors of the original. Vega is close to us, almost too close for that. And too young. OTOH it might have ejected Sol, gone black for a while, and then swallowed up a companion star so that it appears much younger than it is. IOW there is an old core and a new skin there (something I wish was doable in the human context!). Vega does not look that old now, and Sol formed over 5 billion yeas ago when out galaxy was young. But this surprising findings about its instability may be a clue that is a much older object, which now appears younger - having gained much new mass in ther intervening billions of years, instead of decaying after its initial fuel was expended. OTOH we can never know what Carl was smoking at the time. Astronomy teacher Mark Ritter wrote the a nice little article on Vega which I have paraphrased below (as it was written for a different time of year- and did not have the references to the movie): Tonight, if it is clear, there will be a bluish-white Vega parked outside your house. You will have to look to the east. It shows up there every spring. It is a bright star in the constellation Lyra. It is called Vega, derived from the Arabic name of the constellation, Al Nasr al Waki, which means "swooping eagle." Philologically speaking, Al Nasr al Waki begat Wega; Wega begat Vega; And there you are... unless Sagan and his screenwriters are correct in implications Vega begat Sol. Let's look under the hood of this star and see what makes it run. Vega is 25.3 light-years away, about 150 trillion miles as the crow flies. But that's actually pretty close, considering our galaxy is well over 100,000 light-years across. Why, Vega is almost a neighbor. Vega is just over three times the size of our sun now, but who know what was there before our sun was here? All the extra mass that makes it burn a lot more efficiently than our own sun and as a result, Vega gushes more than 60 times the energy that our star does, and a lot of that energy is from the destructive ultraviolet side of the electromagnetic spectrum - that is why it is blue. It could not harbor now the kind of life we know and it should not be a long-lived star at that rate of depletion. Stars similar in brightness to Vega join her in making up the distinctive Summer Triangle. Bright Altair and Deneb both round out this pointy asterism that can be seen high in the heavens for a couple more months. Vega also has the distinction of being the first star photographed by Earth-based paparazzi. In 1850, William Cranch Bond and John Adams Whipple, in a day when it was apparently stylish to use middle names, were the first to image the starry object. On the night of July 16-17, they photographed Vega with the telescope at Harvard Observatory using the early daguerreotype process. But Vega was not content with that brief bit of notoriety. More than 100 years later, she would play yet another leading role in astronomical imaging. Vega rotates, as all stars do. But we see it pole-on, looking down on it as it spins. New, improved images of Vega reveal to us that the star is surrounded by, well, a whole lotta crud. Since 1983, we have been looking down at the full face of a big dirty, spinning Frisbee, with bright Vega right in the middle of it, as if she were brooding over a solar system in the making. And just recently, it was discovered that some of this crud is being blown away by the solar winds of the mother star. This present sweeping implies that there was a recent rocky collision there. Could it be that two young planets, possibly the size of Pluto, have recently collided and vaporized into massive clouds of dust? And the fate of Vega? Because it is such a big star, it will exhaust its fuel much faster than our star. It's really only a relatively young stellar object - 350 million years old, plus or minus - considerably younger than our 5 billion-year-old sun. But according to present theories of star formation, Vega will retire from stardom in about 650 million years, fizzling out into a nondescript white dwarf. It will be lucky if it sees its 1 billionth birthday. However those theories do not nor cannot take into account a stellar "rebirth"... i.e. as when a dying star in a densely populated area of stars swallow up a companion. But before she fades away, Vega will go out with at least one more crowd pleaser. Because the Earth wobbles slowly on its axis, the North Star is not always the one we see now, which is Polaris. In about 10,000 years, we will have wobbled around enough such that the new North Star will be you guessed it - Vega. GM will be long gone, but some fully automated company will surely name their new AG floater-car (the kind that Bruce Willis like to hack around in) after it ... From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 18 11:54:40 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3IIsNwO005767; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 11:54:23 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3IIsKlc005746; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 11:54:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 11:54:20 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: "Rick Monteverde" To: Subject: RE: Contact Vega - or Vega contacting us?! Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 08:54:00 -1000 Message-ID: <002701c66319$760a0c20$8101a8c0@RicksL2000> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 In-Reply-To: <8C8311FE4BF4A6D-F54-1350A@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> Thread-Index: AcZjCTfhA3ZuWrNRTZGc3MxJIRwYbwADu9Iw X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server26.fastbighost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - eskimo.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - highsurf.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67637 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yeah, and it seems that we're on its polar axis. That thing blows, we get the polar beam. In about 25 years it might get a lot easier to see some positive CF results! -----Original Message----- From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net [mailto:hohlrauml6d@netscape.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 6:54 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Contact Vega The star that starred with star Jodie Foster is starring in a new Nature article: http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20060410/vega_spa.html She's spinning so fast she's about to fly apart (Vega, not Jodie). Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 18 12:51:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3IJp1Nc025906; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 12:51:01 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3IJowwq025866; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 12:50:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 12:50:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060418124939.029b7c90@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 12:53:30 -0700 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: Re: Recent "Google Alert" stuff on cold fusion In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060418130249.03da8b10@mindspring.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060418130249.03da8b10@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <9q3FED.A.AUG.iMUREB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67638 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: No joke Jed, Planck's (sp?) second law. CF may be controversial and ignored by many in sci pub, but HF hasn't gotten a word of positive ink since they stopped arguing about the ITER site. Keep up the good work. s >Here is a strange comment: > >http://www.ucsdguardian.org/cgi-bin/features?art=2006_04_17_02 > >"Saxena thinks that these obstacles can be overcome and that ethanol is a >good stepping stone for energy evolution. > >'Ethanol as an energy source is a good interim solution until we are able >to accomplish hydrogen economy, fuel cells and cold-fusion technologies,' >he said." > >I wonder if it is intended to be a joke. It does not sound like it. > >- Jed > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 18 13:33:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3IKWv2G009293; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:32:58 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3IKWoKt009250; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:32:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:32:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 16:27:24 -0400 Message-Id: <8C8313DA34B6A42-249C-525@mblkn-m04.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <8C8311FE4BF4A6D-F54-1350A@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> <007f01c66311$6a09aa50$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <007f01c66311$6a09aa50$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Contact Vega Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.68 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3IKWf9G009204 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67639 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene In about 10,000 years, we will have wobbled around enough such that the new North Star will be you guessed it - Vega. <><><><><><> Fascinating article, Jones. I had no idea Vega was a pole star. This means that 16,000 years ago the Atlanteans and Lemureans navigated by Vega. Terry    ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 18 13:40:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3IKdaJd011729; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:39:37 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3IKdXo1011705; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:39:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:39:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060418163903.03d3ea50@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 16:39:23 -0400 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Sonofusion summary page Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67641 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: See: http://members.nuvox.net/~on.jwclymer/snf/index.html From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 18 13:50:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3IKo2u7015734; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:50:30 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3IKYh9A010195; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:34:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:34:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 16:29:37 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C8313DF268D06A-249C-53C@mblkn-m04.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <002701c66319$760a0c20$8101a8c0@RicksL2000> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Contact Vega - or Vega contacting us?! Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.68 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67640 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Rick Monteverde Yeah, and it seems that we're on its polar axis. That thing blows, we get the polar beam. In about 25 years it might get a lot easier to see some positive CF results! <><><><><><> If Shipov is right, we already feel the effects of Vega! Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 18 15:32:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3IMWJlX024434; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 15:32:19 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3IMWG0G024411; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 15:32:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 15:32:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=gRQt5TeCLw/dJZV6ZH2dlJCrxHYf7stk6dbpqIR+BMkFPCm5r5LFUH+I2s3+IF+9; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006421822328599@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 16:32:08 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94040496f7199b3b7d7e74ed821608bcc6e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.138 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67642 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Cascaded Villard Voltage Multiplier. http://www.kronjaeger.com/hv/hv/src/mul/ With 10 stages 0 -15, 000 volts in ~ 0 - 15,000,000 volts out. :-) ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Cascaded Villard Voltage Multiplier.
 
 
With 10 stages 0 -15, 000 volts in ~ 0 - 15,000,000 volts out.  :-)
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 18 17:36:34 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3J0aMYj002670; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:36:22 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3J0aJPW002655; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:36:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:36:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <011601c66349$45526cf0$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: Subject: Re: Muonium Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:36:16 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67643 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hoyt A. Stearns jr." > You might be interested in this article: > http://www.rsystem.org/rs/cwkvk/muon.htm Well it is certainly interesting that he can work out the lifetime for the muon using this theory. That is impressive. Of course, he does have the luxury of knowing in advance what the correct value is - but his math does not appear to be a kludge. I wonder if Larson is fully tuned into a possible *major* implication of this? i.e. the association of reciprocal-argon with the muon ... as certainly - if it is true, then the quantum uncertainty which is inherent in a moderately hot plasma of argon and deuterium - would seem to imply that there would be increased probability of actual fusion (still at a low rate) - if enough of what he is calling "inversion" time intersects with a substantial population of accelerated deuterons and argon = then a substantial rate of muon catalyzed fusion is poised to occur (thousands of times more than normal QM probability based on no-argon but is it enough to be useful?) Come to think of it ... there is one place in nature where this could this be showing up regularly - the auroa borealis ! Here you have solar deuterons captured by earth's magnetic field which holds the solar wind at bay, up north near the poles where there will be some argon at that elevation. The same solar wind and magnetic field are said to "produce" the Aurora Borealis, by conventional rationalization, but instead they may just set the stage for muon catalyzed fusion when argon temporaily "flips" or when cosmic rays make regular muons .... ...Hans Alfven thought this could happen.... but what did he know ;-) Jones I can tell you this - if I had a "joe cell" that was showing some promise but maybe not enough - I would start sparging it with a little argon to see if things improved... ... did I hear someone say Papp motor ? From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 18 19:20:31 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3J2KLRU010616; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 19:20:21 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3J2KJ6K010596; Tue, 18 Apr 2006 19:20:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 19:20:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 22:20:38 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: Recent "Google Alert" stuff on cold fusion In-reply-to: <7.0.1.0.2.20060418130249.03da8b10@mindspring.com> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67644 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mow I know why the TV show Daily Planet never has stories about CF research. The host of the show is Jay Ingram and by writing this article he has made clear his opinion of CF research. Harry Jed Rothwell wrote: > The usual lame-brained attack: > > http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article > _Type1&c=Article&cid=1144965013477&call_pageid=968332188774&col=968350116467 > > This includes some vicious garbage about Taleyarkhan. He is accused > of "removing an instrument" from the laboratory. As if the accusers > are not capable of moving the instrument back in again! > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 19 03:41:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3JAetC4004344; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 03:40:55 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3JAeqEM004328; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 03:40:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 03:40:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=cfV+9TA/K/CenGLnQu/MWQRbluS7zCoG86p+4TLLlVeLx+Kinyy3xqn2x0bWCnSo; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064319104038219@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 04:40:38 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94069fc23962e4bdaaa23bf690103f00c7e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.115 Resent-Message-ID: <31NqWB.A.kDB.0OhREB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67645 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Puzzle: Electric Polarization P is defined as the difference between the electric fields D (induced) and E (imposed) P = D - E or P = eoXeE Electric Susceptibility Xe = K*eo/eo] - 1 = P/eoE eo = 8.8452e-12 C^2 N^-1 m^-2 or Farad m^-1 What happens between the plates 1, of a vacuum capacitor when K*eo is a function of E? 2, when H2 or D2 is introduced? 3, when the energy density joules/meter^3 a function of D and E approaches a critical value between the plates of a capacitor? 4, Zero point Energy ZPE tapping at some point? Do atoms spontaneously ionize at high values of E? Do Deuterons lose a neutron at high values of E? Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Puzzle:
 
Electric Polarization P is defined as the difference between the electric fields D (induced) and E (imposed)
P = D - E
or
P = eoXeE 
 
Electric Susceptibility  Xe = K*eo/eo] - 1   = P/eoE     eo = 8.8452e-12 C^2 N^-1 m^-2 or Farad m^-1
 
What happens between the plates
 
1, of a vacuum capacitor when K*eo is a function of E?
 
2, when H2 or D2 is introduced?
 
3, when the energy density joules/meter^3 a function of D and E
approaches a  critical value between the plates of a capacitor?
 
4, Zero point Energy ZPE tapping at some point?
 
Do atoms spontaneously ionize at high values of E?
 
Do Deuterons lose a neutron at high values of E?
 
Fred
 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 19 04:08:37 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3JB8F1f014295; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 04:08:16 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3JB8Cw5014255; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 04:08:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 04:08:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=bZJjnhU3kGsdF8VmtLvE4uK61MS1TWSxFx++E4AQgfLavrpkRT/9ICZ8mXkU+DW2; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200643191180651@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 05:08:00 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94018caafa80b279650f7cd09b97e2a954b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.38 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67646 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Same Questions: On a Surface or in a "Condensed Matter" Lattice? Does this also alter or cause absorption of Gamma or X-Ray Photons? ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/19/2006 4:41:32 AM Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity Puzzle: Electric Polarization P is defined as the difference between the electric fields D (induced) and E (imposed) P = D - E or P = eoXeE Electric Susceptibility Xe = K*eo/eo] - 1 = P/eoE eo = 8.8452e-12 C^2 N^-1 m^-2 or Farad m^-1 What happens between the plates 1, of a vacuum capacitor when K*eo is a function of E? 2, when H2 or D2 is introduced? 3, when the energy density joules/meter^3 a function of D and E approaches a critical value between the plates of a capacitor? 4, Zero point Energy ZPE tapping at some point? Do atoms spontaneously ionize at high values of E? Do Deuterons lose a neutron at high values of E? Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Same Questions:
 
On a Surface or in a "Condensed Matter" Lattice?
 
Does this also alter or cause absorption of Gamma or X-Ray Photons?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/19/2006 4:41:32 AM
Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity

Puzzle:
 
Electric Polarization P is defined as the difference between the electric fields D (induced) and E (imposed)
P = D - E
or
P = eoXeE 
 
Electric Susceptibility  Xe = K*eo/eo] - 1   = P/eoE     eo = 8.8452e-12 C^2 N^-1 m^-2 or Farad m^-1
 
What happens between the plates
 
1, of a vacuum capacitor when K*eo is a function of E?
 
2, when H2 or D2 is introduced?
 
3, when the energy density joules/meter^3 a function of D and E
approaches a  critical value between the plates of a capacitor?
 
4, Zero point Energy ZPE tapping at some point?
 
Do atoms spontaneously ionize at high values of E?
 
Do Deuterons lose a neutron at high values of E?
 
Fred
 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 19 04:39:55 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3JBdcHO023890; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 04:39:39 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3JBdav1023854; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 04:39:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 04:39:36 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=FzP8+Y9A4yV54S2ePfvs7ra+1Z0QlJWL5JK7ehfzclNqye1dd8uyK8x6S023+GSr; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064319113927799@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Cc: "Ronald L Brodzinski" Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 05:39:27 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9406aac8b570d281d56cac378d2cb79bc50350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.95 Resent-Message-ID: <22MAdC.A.h0F.4FiREB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67647 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII And the Proverbial (Rhetorical ?) Question: That ~ 3.4e14 m^-2 Solar Neutrino Flux when it interacts with this stuff? :-) Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/19/2006 5:08:54 AM Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity Same Questions: On a Surface or in a "Condensed Matter" Lattice? Does this also alter or cause absorption of Gamma or X-Ray Photons? ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/19/2006 4:41:32 AM Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity Puzzle: Electric Polarization P is defined as the difference between the electric fields D (induced) and E (imposed) P = D - E or P = eoXeE Electric Susceptibility Xe = K*eo/eo] - 1 = P/eoE eo = 8.8452e-12 C^2 N^-1 m^-2 or Farad m^-1 What happens between the plates 1, of a vacuum capacitor when K*eo is a function of E? 2, when H2 or D2 is introduced? 3, when the energy density joules/meter^3 a function of D and E approaches a critical value between the plates of a capacitor? 4, Zero point Energy ZPE tapping at some point? Do atoms spontaneously ionize at high values of E? Do Deuterons lose a neutron at high values of E? Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
And the Proverbial (Rhetorical ?) Question:
 
That ~ 3.4e14 m^-2 Solar Neutrino Flux when it interacts
with this stuff? :-)
 
Fred
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/19/2006 5:08:54 AM
Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity

Same Questions:
 
On a Surface or in a "Condensed Matter" Lattice?
 
Does this also alter or cause absorption of Gamma or X-Ray Photons?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/19/2006 4:41:32 AM
Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity

Puzzle:
 
Electric Polarization P is defined as the difference between the electric fields D (induced) and E (imposed)
P = D - E
or
P = eoXeE 
 
Electric Susceptibility  Xe = K*eo/eo] - 1   = P/eoE     eo = 8.8452e-12 C^2 N^-1 m^-2 or Farad m^-1
 
What happens between the plates
 
1, of a vacuum capacitor when K*eo is a function of E?
 
2, when H2 or D2 is introduced?
 
3, when the energy density joules/meter^3 a function of D and E
approaches a  critical value between the plates of a capacitor?
 
4, Zero point Energy ZPE tapping at some point?
 
Do atoms spontaneously ionize at high values of E?
 
Do Deuterons lose a neutron at high values of E?
 
Fred
 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 19 05:51:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3JCpcPx023722; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 05:51:39 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3JCpZbo023697; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 05:51:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 05:51:35 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <003b01c663af$fb937750$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-220064319104038219@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 14:51:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67648 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Do atoms spontaneously ionize at high values of E? Yes they do Fred, that's how the "soft ionization membrane" works: it's a capacitor like you describe with holes in it, through which you push the gas you want to ionize. Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 12:40 PM Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity > Puzzle: > > Electric Polarization P is defined as the difference between the electric > fields D (induced) and E (imposed) > P = D - E > or > P = eoXeE > > Electric Susceptibility Xe = K*eo/eo] - 1 = P/eoE eo = 8.8452e-12 > C^2 N^-1 m^-2 or Farad m^-1 > > What happens between the plates > > 1, of a vacuum capacitor when K*eo is a function of E? > > 2, when H2 or D2 is introduced? > > 3, when the energy density joules/meter^3 a function of D and E > approaches a critical value between the plates of a capacitor? > > 4, Zero point Energy ZPE tapping at some point? > > Do atoms spontaneously ionize at high values of E? > > Do Deuterons lose a neutron at high values of E? > > Fred From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 19 06:04:37 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3JD4GWH027995; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 06:04:17 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3JD4E2N027968; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 06:04:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 06:04:14 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=tja0MxmtGmp7wf+NKaqlMHOZzKro/NW3DiwYa54JNL69c7Vn9U7DVgH0S4zGWkMX; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200643191335672@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 07:03:56 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940d879bb59a7f7c5101b94d573f538b53a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.148 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67649 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/Polarization.html Polarization: "Propagating light consists of a transverse electric and magnetic field, a single photon will oscillate on a line perpendicular to the propagation direction. If the coordinate system is not aligned with the electric field direction, it can be broken up into two perpendicular components." Pockels Effect: "An electrooptical effect in which the application of an electric field produces a birefringence which is proportional to the field." Kerr Effect: "The development of birefringence when an isotropic transparent substance in placed in an electric field." Electric Polarization P is defined as the difference between the electric fields D (induced) and E (imposed) P = D - E or P = eoXeE Electric Susceptibility Xe = K*eo/eo] - 1 = P/eoE eo = 8.8452e-12 C^2 N^-1 m^-2 or Farad m^-1 What happens between the plates 1, of a vacuum capacitor when K*eo is a function of E? 2, when H2 or D2 is introduced? 3, when the energy density joules/meter^3 a function of D and E approaches a critical value between the plates of a capacitor? 4, Zero point Energy ZPE tapping at some point? Do atoms spontaneously ionize at high values of E? Do Deuterons lose a neutron at high values of E? On a Surface or in a "Condensed Matter" Lattice? Does this also alter or cause absorption of Gamma or X-Ray Photons? The~ 3.4e14 m^-2 sec^-1 Solar Neutrino Flux when it interacts with high E Fields? Neutrino Oscillation? Vacuum Polarization? ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
 
Polarization:
"Propagating light consists of a transverse electric and magnetic field, a single photon will oscillate on a line perpendicular to the propagation direction. If the coordinate system is not aligned with the electric field direction, it can be broken up into two perpendicular components."
 
Pockels Effect:
"An electrooptical effect in which the application of an electric field produces a birefringence which is proportional to the field."
 
Kerr Effect:
"The development of birefringence when an isotropic transparent substance in placed in an electric field."
 
Electric Polarization P is defined as the difference between the electric fields D (induced) and E (imposed)
P = D - E
or
P = eoXeE 
 
Electric Susceptibility  Xe = K*eo/eo] - 1   = P/eoE     eo = 8.8452e-12 C^2 N^-1 m^-2 or Farad m^-1
 
What happens between the plates
 
1, of a vacuum capacitor when K*eo is a function of E?
 
2, when H2 or D2 is introduced?
 
3, when the energy density joules/meter^3 a function of D and E
approaches a  critical value between the plates of a capacitor?
 
4, Zero point Energy ZPE tapping at some point?
 
Do atoms spontaneously ionize at high values of E?
 
Do Deuterons lose a neutron at high values of E?
 
On a Surface or in a "Condensed Matter" Lattice?
 
Does this also alter or cause absorption of Gamma or X-Ray Photons?
 
The~ 3.4e14 m^-2  sec^-1 Solar Neutrino Flux when it interacts
with high E Fields?
Neutrino Oscillation?
 
Vacuum Polarization? 
 
 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 19 06:59:09 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3JDwu0n017758; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 06:58:57 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3JDwt4Z017732; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 06:58:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 06:58:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=BWILXFXuiC/tR/bGtZhNx5VLHG2Ru2cjkwOCcGrX7naW/hArVO6Co9+DTpKJ3v7n; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064319135846223@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 07:58:46 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940b6bec4f60ecaf40528f5c9c9e9e33c74350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.241 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67650 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michel Jullian wrote: > "Fred wrote" > > > Do atoms spontaneously ionize at high values of E? > > Yes they do Fred, that's how the "soft ionization membrane" works: it's a > capacitor like you describe with holes in it, through which you push the gas > you want to ionize. > > Michel > Thanks Michel. That being the case, would a Pd "soft ion membrane" act as a deuteron accelerator if hooked something like this with 5.0 millimeter spacing, (E = 10e7 volts/meter) or so? D2 gas in grounded can + 50 KV ------------------------Pd membrane vacuum - 50 KV ___________________ vacuum Fred From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 19 07:31:43 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3JEVQO9030147; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 07:31:27 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3JEVPJ3030111; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 07:31:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 07:31:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=JyoI0bAxeN1POA8bCIy+WwADeU0GjKtOmGu+WWUawcrVeE7Vy4J4XORDHhvZbVgv; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064319143120123@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:31:20 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940d5092623fc8ca656d060c1641b798f89350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.112 Resent-Message-ID: <09Re6C.A.ZWH.9mkREB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67651 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Would it be better to make the - 50 KV collector a point so that the D+ ions converge in a small area? A Boron-10 tip Perhaps? (neutron + Boron-10 ---> He4 + Li7 + ~ 3.2 MeV) Fred > > Michel Jullian wrote: > > > "Fred wrote" > > > > > Do atoms spontaneously ionize at high values of E? > > > > Yes they do Fred, that's how the "soft ionization membrane" works: it's a > > capacitor like you describe with holes in it, through which you push the > gas > > you want to ionize. > > > > Michel > > > Thanks Michel. > > That being the case, would a Pd "soft ion membrane" act as > a deuteron accelerator if hooked something like > this with 5.0 millimeter spacing, (E = 10e7 volts/meter) or so? > D2 gas in grounded can > + 50 KV ------------------------Pd membrane > vacuum > - 50 KV ___________________ > vacuum > Fred > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 19 07:40:33 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3JEeJWE002966; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 07:40:19 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3JEeIFi002953; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 07:40:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 07:40:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <008001c663bf$2a782ca0$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-220064319135846223@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:40:12 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67652 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 3:58 PM Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity > Michel Jullian wrote: >> > "Fred wrote" >> >> > Do atoms spontaneously ionize at high values of E? >> >> Yes they do Fred, that's how the "soft ionization membrane" works: it's a >> capacitor like you describe with holes in it, through which you push the > gas >> you want to ionize. >> >> Michel >> > Thanks Michel. > > That being the case, would a Pd "soft ion membrane" act as > a deuteron accelerator if hooked something like > this with 5.0 millimeter spacing, (E = 10e7 volts/meter) or so? > D2 gas in grounded can > + 50 KV ------------------------Pd membrane > vacuum > - 50 KV ___________________ > vacuum If by this you mean: D2 gas in grounded can grounded + lead of 50 kV supply ------------------------Pd membrane vacuum - lead of 50 kV supply ___________________ vacuum or whatever then if the field is higher then D ionization field (= H ionization field I guess), which I don't know, the answer is yes. Your deuterons should crash into the bottom plate with 50 keV energy. The stripped electrons will travel through the Pd, the + lead of the supply, the supply, the - lead, and will neutralize the arriving deuterons. A typical "soft ionization membrane" is much thinner than this, of the order of 1 µm near the holes I seem to remember, and works with a few volts I believe (Google it up, so you'll know what kind of e-field value is used). Yet another nice thought experiment :) Michel > Fred From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 19 07:46:33 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3JEkI3i005751; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 07:46:19 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3JEkHQv005714; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 07:46:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 07:46:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <008901c663c0$023f4790$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-220064319143120123@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:45:48 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67653 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Or make the emitter a sphere with the D2 supply on the outside, the -50kV electrode a grid inside the sphere, and expect D-D fusion in the center. We could call this a superfuser ;) Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 4:31 PM Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity > > Would it be better to make the - 50 KV collector > a point so that the D+ ions converge in a small area? > > A Boron-10 tip Perhaps? (neutron + Boron-10 ---> He4 + Li7 + ~ 3.2 MeV) > > Fred >> >> Michel Jullian wrote: >> > >> "Fred wrote" >> > >> > > Do atoms spontaneously ionize at high values of E? >> > >> > Yes they do Fred, that's how the "soft ionization membrane" works: it's > a >> > capacitor like you describe with holes in it, through which you push >> > the >> gas >> > you want to ionize. >> > >> > Michel >> > >> Thanks Michel. >> >> That being the case, would a Pd "soft ion membrane" act as >> a deuteron accelerator if hooked something like >> this with 5.0 millimeter spacing, (E = 10e7 volts/meter) or so? >> D2 gas in grounded can >> + 50 KV ------------------------Pd membrane >> vacuum >> - 50 KV ___________________ >> vacuum >> Fred >> > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 19 08:03:21 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3JF33PL015804; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:03:03 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3JF2vhm015749; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:02:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:02:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060419110035.08e319a0@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:02:50 -0400 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Recent "Google Alert" stuff on cold fusion In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060418130249.03da8b10@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67654 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Harry Veeder wrote: >Mow I know why the TV show Daily Planet never has stories about CF research. >The host of the show is Jay Ingram and by writing this article he has made >clear his opinion of CF research. I sent to the guy a neutral message suggesting that he look at LENR-CANR.org. Despite his hard-line comments, I got a sense from the opening of the article that he might be willing to look at the data. I sent the message to the only address shown at the web site: dailyplanet@discovery.ca If anyone has a better, more direct address please let me know. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 19 08:15:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3JFFZHT022094; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:15:35 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3JFFWbJ022074; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:15:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:15:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=rBuX4QCwUs8+XgFUCJN5P4SuqDJyT1fk9vTgtXY8OAnbRmSVJTHsZyAN4lRZs6+6; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064319151523149@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:15:23 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9400d6a10c9209eab7690caeef62fe937f4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.144 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67655 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: BTW, Michel. High E Field birefringence effects on a 24 Mev Gamma Photon should degenerate it (or lower energy ones) to thermal energy photons. IOW, 24MeV/2^24.5.= ~ 1 OTOH. 2^8005551212 power is the toll-free information number for the galaxy. Watched "The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy" lately? :-) Fred http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/Polarization.html Polarization: "Propagating light consists of a transverse electric and magnetic field, a single photon will oscillate on a line perpendicular to the propagation direction. If the coordinate system is not aligned with the electric field direction, it can be broken up into two perpendicular components." Pockels Effect: "An electrooptical effect in which the application of an electric field produces a birefringence which is proportional to the field." Kerr Effect: "The development of birefringence when an isotropic transparent substance in placed in an electric field." Electric Polarization P is defined as the difference between the electric fields D (induced) and E (imposed) P = D - E or P = eoXeE Electric Susceptibility Xe = K*eo/eo] - 1 = P/eoE eo = 8.8452e-12 C^2 N^-1 m^-2 or Farad m^-1 > > From: Frederick Sparber > > Date: 4/19/2006 8:32:00 AM > > > Would it be better to make the - 50 KV collector > a point so that the D+ ions converge in a small area? > > A Boron-10 tip Perhaps? (neutron + Boron-10 ---> He4 + Li7 + ~ 3.2 MeV) > > Fred > > > > Michel Jullian wrote: > > > > > "Fred wrote" > > > > > > > Do atoms spontaneously ionize at high values of E? > > > > > > Yes they do Fred, that's how the "soft ionization membrane" works: it's > a > > > capacitor like you describe with holes in it, through which you push the > > gas > > > you want to ionize. > > > > > > Michel > > > > > Thanks Michel. > > > > That being the case, would a Pd "soft ion membrane" act as > > a deuteron accelerator if hooked something like > > this with 5.0 millimeter spacing, (E = 10e7 volts/meter) or so? > > D2 gas in grounded can > > + 50 KV ------------------------Pd membrane > > vacuum > > - 50 KV ___________________ > > vacuum > > Fred > > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 19 08:59:08 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3JFwqNe012884; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:58:52 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3JFwoiB012868; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:58:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:58:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00af01c663ca$25b8f5e0$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-220064319151523149@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 17:58:49 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67656 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 5:15 PM Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity > BTW, Michel. > > High E Field birefringence effects on a 24 Mev Gamma Photon > should degenerate it (or lower energy ones) to thermal energy photons. > > IOW, 24MeV/2^24.5.= ~ 1 No idea what you are talking about Fred, as often ;) > > OTOH. 2^8005551212 power is the toll-free information number > for the galaxy. > Watched "The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy" lately? :-) I have read all the five books, several times, my favorite trilogy of four :)) The original in English, not the French translation which is pathetic. Douglas Adams was an absolute genius, it would have taken a genius to do a good translation I guess. Michel > > Fred > > http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/Polarization.html > > Polarization: > "Propagating light consists of a transverse electric and magnetic field, a > single photon will oscillate on a line perpendicular to the propagation > direction. If the coordinate system is not aligned with the electric field > direction, it can be broken up into two perpendicular components." > > Pockels Effect: > "An electrooptical effect in which the application of an electric field > produces a birefringence which is proportional to the field." > > Kerr Effect: > "The development of birefringence when an isotropic transparent substance > in placed in an electric field." > > Electric Polarization P is defined as the difference between the electric > fields D (induced) and E (imposed) > P = D - E > or > P = eoXeE > > Electric Susceptibility Xe = K*eo/eo] - 1 = P/eoE eo = 8.8452e-12 > C^2 N^-1 m^-2 or Farad m^-1 > > >> >> From: Frederick Sparber >> >> Date: 4/19/2006 8:32:00 AM >> >> >> Would it be better to make the - 50 KV collector >> a point so that the D+ ions converge in a small area? >> >> A Boron-10 tip Perhaps? (neutron + Boron-10 ---> He4 + Li7 + ~ 3.2 MeV) >> >> Fred >> > >> > Michel Jullian wrote: >> > > >> > "Fred wrote" >> > > >> > > > Do atoms spontaneously ionize at high values of E? >> > > >> > > Yes they do Fred, that's how the "soft ionization membrane" works: > it's >> a >> > > capacitor like you describe with holes in it, through which you push > the >> > gas >> > > you want to ionize. >> > > >> > > Michel >> > > >> > Thanks Michel. >> > >> > That being the case, would a Pd "soft ion membrane" act as >> > a deuteron accelerator if hooked something like >> > this with 5.0 millimeter spacing, (E = 10e7 volts/meter) or so? >> > D2 gas in grounded can >> > + 50 KV ------------------------Pd membrane >> > vacuum >> > - 50 KV ___________________ >> > vacuum >> > Fred >> > >> >> > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 19 09:11:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3JGBjhO018572; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:11:45 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3JGBhJx018554; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:11:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:11:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=CoLzDn1rTqQw5OO8hCkPSsHr5HndlKaBCak9tCnbb87N0IS1qX2kYco7CBq/8qN1; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064319161132706@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:11:32 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940bb1b7839825e1442f6619fd8da56115d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.172 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67657 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Might high E Fields exploit the Coulomb polarization of the deuteron (Oppenheimer-Phillips Effect) to allow deuteron stripping? IOW,does the "neutron end" of a deuteron act as a somewhat negative charge tending to pull it apart in a high field? http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRC/v43/i2/p771_1 "Coulomb-dominated low-energy deuteron stripping" Received 20 July 1990 "Analysis of a three-body model shows that Coulomb polarization of the deuteron has very little influence on the branching ratio A(d,p)/A(d,n) for transfer reactions on target nucleus A at very low deuteron energies (the Oppenheimer-Phillips effect). We see that polarization effects in transfer reactions are not related to the long range of the Coulomb field, but are caused by the more intense fields near the target nucleus. However, even in that region the induced dipole moment is limited by the deuteron binding, and it is small for low Z targets. We see in addition that the transfer amplitudes tend to be insensitive to any polarization admixtures in the entrance channel. On the other hand, the branching ratio can be affected by the Coulomb barrier for the bound final-state wave function of the proton, especially for very weakly bound final states. Brief remarks about the relation of stripping theory to special properties of the d+d system are included." > [Original Message] > From: Frederick Sparber > To: vortex-l > Date: 4/19/2006 9:16:26 AM > Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity > > BTW, Michel. > > High E Field birefringence effects on a 24 Mev Gamma Photon > should degenerate it (or lower energy ones) to thermal energy photons. > > IOW, 24MeV/2^24.5.= ~ 1 > > OTOH. 2^8005551212 power is the toll-free information number > for the galaxy. > Watched "The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy" lately? :-) > > Fred > > http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/Polarization.html > > Polarization: > "Propagating light consists of a transverse electric and magnetic field, a > single photon will oscillate on a line perpendicular to the propagation > direction. If the coordinate system is not aligned with the electric field > direction, it can be broken up into two perpendicular components." > > Pockels Effect: > "An electrooptical effect in which the application of an electric field > produces a birefringence which is proportional to the field." > > Kerr Effect: > "The development of birefringence when an isotropic transparent substance > in placed in an electric field." > > Electric Polarization P is defined as the difference between the electric > fields D (induced) and E (imposed) > P = D - E > or > P = eoXeE > > Electric Susceptibility Xe = K*eo/eo] - 1 = P/eoE eo = 8.8452e-12 > C^2 N^-1 m^-2 or Farad m^-1 > > > > > > From: Frederick Sparber > > > > Date: 4/19/2006 8:32:00 AM > > > > > > Would it be better to make the - 50 KV collector > > a point so that the D+ ions converge in a small area? > > > > A Boron-10 tip Perhaps? (neutron + Boron-10 ---> He4 + Li7 + ~ 3.2 MeV) > > > > Fred > > > > > > Michel Jullian wrote: > > > > > > > "Fred wrote" > > > > > > > > > Do atoms spontaneously ionize at high values of E? > > > > > > > > Yes they do Fred, that's how the "soft ionization membrane" works: > it's > > a > > > > capacitor like you describe with holes in it, through which you push > the > > > gas > > > > you want to ionize. > > > > > > > > Michel > > > > > > > Thanks Michel. > > > > > > That being the case, would a Pd "soft ion membrane" act as > > > a deuteron accelerator if hooked something like > > > this with 5.0 millimeter spacing, (E = 10e7 volts/meter) or so? > > > D2 gas in grounded can > > > + 50 KV ------------------------Pd membrane > > > vacuum > > > - 50 KV ___________________ > > > vacuum > > > Fred > > > > > > > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 19 09:42:24 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3JGfxCm032473; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:42:00 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3JGfuXb032435; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:41:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:41:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Kx3xNpqJ4opgQvL8aBIqaBkM1lQywWq3hHRhiDAFNKLWmM72rgX24talmT5EZS0E; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064319164146404@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:41:46 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940b7be7ac31c9fabdb10ab865897757554350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.165.151 Resent-Message-ID: <2z4NXB.A.u6H.ThmREB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67658 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michel Jullian wrote. > > From: "Frederick Sparber" > > > > BTW, Michel. > > > > High E Field birefringence effects on a 24 Mev Gamma Photon > > should degenerate it (or lower energy ones) to thermal energy photons. > > > > IOW, 24MeV/2^24.5.= ~ 1 > > No idea what you are talking about Fred, as often ;) > Neither do I, I'm just marking time waiting for Jones' morning mind-bender :-) > > > > > OTOH. 2^8005551212 power is the toll-free information number > > for the galaxy. > > Watched "The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy" lately? :-) > > I have read all the five books, several times, my favorite trilogy of four > :)) The original in English, not the French translation which is pathetic. > Douglas Adams was an absolute genius, it would have taken a genius to do a > good translation I guess. > >From T-Rex down to the ugliest creepy-crawly land or marine creatures ever shown, none are as ugly as some of those shown in the movie.Is it earthling vanity? :-) BTW, 1.01^8005551212 power is 9.99999999999^99 or about 1.00 Google. Fred > > Michel > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 19 09:54:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3JGsBE6005486; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:54:12 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3JGsAn8005458; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:54:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:54:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 12:54:04 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C831E900403A10-CF0-55C6@mblkn-m02.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Prenumbra Are Not Convection Currents Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.66 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67659 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://thunderbolts.info/tpod/2006/arch06/060418penumbra.htm It looks like there's little doubt that they are magnetic field lines. And, if they are field lines, then this means an electric current must be flowing. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 19 10:20:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3JHK6jG017883; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:20:07 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3JHK46Z017841; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:20:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:20:04 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00d201c663d5$7cf199b0$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-220064319164146404@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 19:19:59 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67660 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 6:41 PM ... >> > OTOH. 2^8005551212 power is the toll-free information number >> > for the galaxy. >> > Watched "The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy" lately? :-) >> >> I have read all the five books, several times, my favorite trilogy of > four >> :)) The original in English, not the French translation which is > pathetic. >> Douglas Adams was an absolute genius, it would have taken a genius to do > a >> good translation I guess. >> >>From T-Rex down to the ugliest creepy-crawly land or > marine creatures ever shown, none are as ugly as some of those > shown in the movie.Is it earthling vanity? :-) I missed the movie (will have to rent the DVD) but from your description it must be the Vogons :) Book 1 Chapter 5: " Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz was not a pleasant sight, even for other Vogons. His highly domed nose rose high above a small piggy forehead. His dark green rubbery skin was thick enough for him to play the game of Vogon Civil Service politics, and play it well, and waterproof enough for him to survive indefinitely at sea depths of up to a thousand feet with no ill effects. Not that he ever went swimming of course. His busy schedule would not allow it. He was the way he was because billions of years ago when the Vogons had first crawled out of the sluggish primeval seas of Vogsphere, and had lain panting and heaving on the planet's virgin shores... when the first rays of the bright young Vogsol sun had shone across them that morning, it was as if the forces of evolution had simply given up on them there and then, had turned aside in disgust and written them off as an ugly and unfortunate mistake." > > BTW, 1.01^8005551212 power is 9.99999999999^99 Mmm I doubt it, more like something close to 1+0.01*8005551212=80055513 isn't it? Michel > or about 1.00 Google. > > Fred >> >> Michel >> > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 19 12:40:09 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3JJdkac006971; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 12:39:47 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3JJdiW4006954; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 12:39:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 12:39:44 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=mVVTb9YPvZ9WTCm/zeUlgpHJ0NeFPk4vcRhdz7uYc8akgAFBKtkyJinNch1mCb6g; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064319193935543@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 13:39:35 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940a5ec26fa4b611dfda35fd188fa4170de350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.165.219 Resent-Message-ID: <_cvhzC.A.fsB.-HpREB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67661 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: From: Michel Jullian > > > I missed the movie (will have to rent the DVD) but from your description it > must be the Vogons :) > > Book 1 Chapter 5: > > " Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz was not a pleasant sight, even for other Vogons. > His highly domed nose rose high above a small piggy forehead. His dark green > rubbery skin was thick enough for him to play the game of Vogon Civil > Service politics, and play it well, and waterproof enough for him to survive > indefinitely at sea depths of up to a thousand feet with no ill effects. > Not that he ever went swimming of course. His busy schedule would not allow > it. He was the way he was because billions of years ago when the Vogons had > first crawled out of the sluggish primeval seas of Vogsphere, and had lain > panting and heaving on the planet's virgin shores... when the first rays of > the bright young Vogsol sun had shone across them that morning, it was as if > the forces of evolution had simply given up on them there and then, had > turned aside in disgust and written them off as an ugly and unfortunate > mistake." > I missed the Civil Service Politics part, that explains it. > > > > BTW, 1.01^8005551212 power is 9.99999999999^99 > > Mmm I doubt it, more like something close to 1+0.01*8005551212=80055513 > isn't it? > I don't know. My calculator hits 9.99999^99 at around 2^334 IOW, if you start out with a penny and double it every hour for about 334 hours, you can get filthy rich in a couple of weeks. Fred > > Michel > > > or about 1.00 Google. > > > > Fred > >> > >> Michel > >> > > > > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 19 13:48:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3JKmPqV002128; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 13:48:26 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3JKmOUE002113; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 13:48:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 13:48:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <4446A20F.90207@pobox.com> Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:48:15 -0400 From: "Stephen A. Lawrence" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20060202 Fedora/1.7.12-1.5.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: 113 mpg for 2008 Prius References: <8C82DE13CB15F71-19E8-26A2D@mblkn-m19.sysops.aol.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060414100020.08379918@mindspring.com> In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060414100020.08379918@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <9FoYfD.A.3g.YIqREB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67662 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed Rothwell wrote: > hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote: > >> But now we've been told that engineers working on the new Prius have a >> fuel economy target of 40km/litre - a mind-boggling 113mpg. > > > Wonderful! I hope they make it a plug-in hybrid. > > In the U.S., Toyota just came out with a hybrid model of their Camry, > which I believe is the best-selling U.S. automobile model. > > If U.S. do not quickly catch up and bring a good hybrid models they are > doomed -- and frankly I think they deserve to go out of business. If > cold fusion ever becomes practical, the same thing will happen on a > faster time scale. > > >> And improved economy isn't the firm's only goal, as engineers are >> working on reducing the current car's 10.9-second 0-62mph time by more >> than a second. > > > Arrgggghhh! I hate it when car manufacturers obsess about this. It is so > stupid. For one thing, the so-called "muscle cars" of the 1960s actually > took around 10 seconds, Don't think so! My 1966 Lincoln did 0-60 in 8 seconds, by watch, and yes, I did check its speedometer and 60 meant 60. 462 cid engine (what's that -- about 7.5 or 8 liters?), 4 bbl carb (looked like a toilet, and the accelerator pump dumped about a half cup of raw gas into the manifold every time you hit the pedal), something like 350 bhp, torque was up around 425, but I no longer recall the exact torque & bhp numbers. A Corvette with a 454 cid engine and fiberglass body would have been a lot faster than that fat old Lincoln, you may be quite sure. If you're talking about Chevy Impalas with small-block V-8's that's something else again, but those weren't "muscle" cars by anybody's standards. > and nobody cared or noticed. Speaking as someone who regularly checked 0-60 times after tuneups, yes, some people did care _and_ notice. > For another, at low > speeds the Prius actually accelerates faster than a regular car, thanks > to the electric motor. Do you need to be careful how hard you hit the gas when you merge onto the expressway, to avoid breaking the wheels loose? No, I'm not being sarcastic. If it's torquier than the 1960's muscle cars, then that would follow. > > - Jed > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 19 14:17:06 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3JLGm27012626; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 14:16:48 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3JLGk3u012612; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 14:16:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 14:16:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060419170628.03d147f0@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 17:16:35 -0400 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Shooting fish in a barrel at Wikipedia Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67663 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The cold fusion article at Wikipedia has grown too large, so it must be split up. Someone asked me to assist with the sub-article "cold fusion controversy." I should not waste my time on this sort of thing, but I did. The skeptics will soon trash this and erase it, but I had a lot of fun writing it. Have a look before it is gone: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion_controversy I have a copy on my desk, preserved for posterity. I did not set out to make this humorous, although I can never resist. I doubt the skeptics will see it as funny. But I trust the readers here will see the humor in parts such as my deadpan rebuttal of the claim that cold fusion researchers are insane; my description of Hoffman's masterpiece; and the juicy quote from Happer and its source (Taubes). - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 19 14:21:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3JLKuGG014429; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 14:20:57 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3JLKrMc014392; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 14:20:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 14:20:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 17:21:13 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Beyond the Google In-reply-to: <00d201c663d5$7cf199b0$3800a8c0@zothan> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67664 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If anyone is interested in even bigger (but still finite) numbers, see: http://www.wschnei.de/number-theory/large-numbers.html Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 19 15:15:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3JMFQRh002230; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 15:15:27 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3JMFLJe002193; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 15:15:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 15:15:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <000401c663fe$c0298f70$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-220064319193935543@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 00:15:21 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67665 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >> > BTW, 1.01^8005551212 power is 9.99999999999^99 >> >> Mmm I doubt it, more like something close to 1+0.01*8005551212=80055513 >> isn't it? >> > I don't know. My calculator hits 9.99999^99 at around 2^334 Excel gives up on the straight calculation too, I had to do it with the help of good old logarithms, base 10 so I would have directly the result as a power of 10 (=~9.999999999999...) Log(a^b) is b*Log(a) isn't it? So Log(1.01^8005551212)=8005551212*Log(1.01) =8005551212*0.00432137378264258 =34594979.1231393 So 1.01^8005551212 = 10^34594979.1231393, and not 10^99 as your calculator wants you to believe ;) The well know approximation: (1+epsilon)^n=~1+n*epsilon on which my previous calculation was based only works for reasonable values of n obviously. Michel > Fred From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 19 15:43:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3JMhUWH013422; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 15:43:31 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3JMhTtA013402; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 15:43:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 15:43:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <007d01c66402$aa4a0e10$0301a8c0@nixlaptop> From: "Nick Palmer" To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060419170628.03d147f0@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Shooting fish in a barrel at Wikipedia Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 23:43:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67666 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jed, I took the liberty of correcting/editing about four obvious voice transcription errors in the piece... Nick Palmer From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 19 16:38:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3JNcBAM000374; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:38:11 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3JNc9qu000356; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:38:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:38:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060419193041.03dcebc0@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 19:38:01 -0400 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Shooting fish in a barrel at Wikipedia In-Reply-To: <007d01c66402$aa4a0e10$0301a8c0@nixlaptop> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060419170628.03d147f0@mindspring.com> <007d01c66402$aa4a0e10$0301a8c0@nixlaptop> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67667 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Nick Palmer wrote: >I took the liberty of correcting/editing about four obvious voice >transcription errors in the piece... Thanks! For some reason, voice input works badly in the Wikipedia interface. It makes more mistakes than usual. I should do all text preparation in Microsoft Word or the dedicated NaturallySpeaking editor, and then transfer the text, but that is tedious. Perhaps we should make a serious effort to tone this article down and make it semi-acceptable to the skeptics. I had such fun writing it after while I decided I would not bother going to the motions to anticipate their objections. Now they will tear it to pieces, and my efforts will be wasted. But I have preserved the text and I may use it some day elsewhere. Here is a funny, wicked, right-on description of Wikipedia, published today: http://www.wired.com/news/columns/0,70670-0.html?tw=wn_index_3 - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 19 17:25:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3K0PEBA016137; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 17:25:14 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3K0PC57016126; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 17:25:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 17:25:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 20:25:08 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C8322803BEADC4-2648-4072@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Equivalence Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.65 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67668 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gnorts, Vorts, Most of us know that 'equivalence' refers to the comparison of an intertial reference frame and gravity. In other words, there's no difference between gravity and inertia. I am exploring a similar claim: the equivalence of magnetism by current flow and permanent magnet magentism. There might be a clue to the real truth here. Thanks to Frank, for the record,<;-)>, I do not believe either are "equivalent" to their partners. Just my opinion, I could be wrong. Terry (the 12+ slug gorilla) ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 19 19:57:14 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3K2v0xj000835; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 19:57:01 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3K2uw7j000819; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 19:56:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 19:56:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 22:56:52 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: Equivalence In-reply-to: <8C8322803BEADC4-2648-4072@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67669 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote: > Gnorts, Vorts, > > Most of us know that 'equivalence' refers to the comparison of an > intertial reference frame and gravity. In other words, there's no > difference between gravity and inertia. > > I am exploring a similar claim: the equivalence of magnetism by > current flow and permanent magnet magentism. There might be a clue to > the real truth here. > > Thanks to Frank, for the record,<;-)>, I do not believe either are > "equivalent" to their partners. > > Just my opinion, I could be wrong. Another thought which may have already occurred to you. In Special Relativity a magnetic field depends on relative motion of an electrostatic force, see for instance this entry from wikipedia on the magnetic field: > > Maxwell did much to unify static electricity and magnetism, producing a set of > four equations relating the two fields. However, under Maxwell's formulation, > there were still two distinct fields describing different phenomena. It was > Albert Einstein who showed, using special relativity, that electric and > magnetic fields are two aspects of the same thing (a rank-2 tensor), and that > one observer may perceive a magnetic force where a moving observer perceives > only an electrostatic force. Thus, using special relativity, magnetic forces > are a manifestation of electrostatic forces of charges in motion and may be > predicted from knowledge of the electrostatic forces and the velocity of > movement (relative to some observer) of the charges. > HOWEVER, what motion can possibly eliminate the macroscopic magnetic field of a permanent magnet?? Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 19 21:18:31 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3K4ILZb028696; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 21:18:21 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3K4IJAo028683; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 21:18:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 21:18:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Equivalence Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 14:18:17 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <4p2e425r8r8mbqpmd1j2rr7eue6mivnsso@4ax.com> References: <8C8322803BEADC4-2648-4072@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta01sl.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.55.131] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Thu, 20 Apr 2006 04:18:17 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3K4IHf8028666 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67670 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Wed, 19 Apr 2006 22:56:52 -0500: Hi, [snip] >HOWEVER, what motion can possibly eliminate the macroscopic magnetic field >of a permanent magnet?? [snip] The motion of sufficient positrons into the magnet to annihilate all the electrons. :^] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 19 21:36:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3K4ZoEm001196; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 21:35:50 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3K4ZmSd001179; Wed, 19 Apr 2006 21:35:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 21:35:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 00:36:11 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: Shooting fish in a barrel at Wikipedia In-reply-to: <7.0.1.0.2.20060419170628.03d147f0@mindspring.com> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67671 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed Rothwell wrote: > The cold fusion article at Wikipedia has grown too large, so it must > be split up. > Someone asked me to assist with the sub-article "cold fusion > controversy." I should not waste my time on this sort of thing, but I did. > > The skeptics will soon trash this and erase it, but I had a lot of > fun writing it. Have a look before it is gone: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion_controversy > Here is a passage from Jed's article in the Wikipedia. > Calorimetry is based upon the laws of thermodynamics. Since most > skeptics agree that autoradiographs, the laws of thermodynamics and so on are > valid, cold fusion researchers feel the skeptics should should agree that cold > fusion experiments are valid, and that the burden of proof is on those who > claim these techniques and laws are inoperative. It got me thinking... Suppose the excess heat is evidence that the second law of thermodynamics is some how violated. In other words the various apparatus that CF researches employ are able to produce usable heat (i.e. excess heat) without an effective temperature difference. Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 20 02:58:17 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3K9w8k3001300; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 02:58:08 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3K9w63V001264; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 02:58:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 02:58:06 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=euLUH3stoal2HdQG/Ig0oVBbNELPNLRyoLjesIaktwQoQY7ely9jJn2SkD3tQQeC; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006442095754781@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 03:57:54 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94040b7a0e1ec9efff49f406bc5ed5db6db350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.119 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67672 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Electrical Energy Density, Joule/meter^3 and Field Intensity, Volts/Meter for the Electron, Proton, and the Earth, 1.0e20 joule/meter^3, 1.2e35 joule/meter^3 and 5.0e20 joule/meter^3 respectively, suggests that the two act together to alter the vacuum permittivity eo by a factor +/- delta eo. Similarly altering Magnetic Energy Density and Field Intensity seems to affect +/- delta uo in the same manner. OTOH, altering either one, independently of the other can give Orders of Magnitude Energy Amplification by Zero Point Energy, ZPE, resulting in Antigravity Force Amplification. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Electrical Energy Density, Joule/meter^3 and
Field Intensity, Volts/Meter for the Electron, Proton, and the
Earth, 1.0e20 joule/meter^3, 1.2e35 joule/meter^3 and
5.0e20 joule/meter^3 respectively, suggests that the two
act together to alter the vacuum permittivity eo by
a factor +/- delta eo.
 
Similarly  altering Magnetic Energy Density  and Field Intensity
seems to affect +/- delta uo in the same manner.
 
OTOH, altering either one, independently of the other can give
Orders of Magnitude Energy Amplification by Zero Point Energy,
ZPE, resulting in Antigravity Force Amplification.
 
Fred
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 20 03:46:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3KAkQ67016806; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 03:46:26 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3KAkOUa016788; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 03:46:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 03:46:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=YZQJAYb8EU5h1iMwF2mzTmCPIk3JNeNvxGgEaRURBUxI6NiAgbWO0RIiBkKAbbT+; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064420104611384@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 04:46:11 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940f310740a3edd39e7be7b8aa136f67fb4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.252 Resent-Message-ID: <7in71.A.PGE.Aa2REB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67673 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII FWIW, The ZPE Amplification Factor is 2.0e16 in order to get 0.5 newtons per joule AG Force. ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/20/2006 3:58:40 AM Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity Electrical Energy Density, Joule/meter^3 and Field Intensity, Volts/Meter for the Electron, Proton, and the Earth, 1.0e22 joule/meter^3, 1.2e35 joule/meter^3 and 5.0e20 joule/meter^3 respectively, suggests that the two act together to alter the vacuum permittivity eo by a factor +/- delta eo. Similarly altering Magnetic Energy Density and Field Intensity seems to affect +/- delta uo in the same manner. OTOH, altering either one, independently of the other can give Orders of Magnitude Energy Amplification by Zero Point Energy, ZPE, resulting in Antigravity Force Amplification. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
FWIW, The ZPE Amplification Factor is 2.0e16
in order to get 0.5 newtons per joule AG Force.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/20/2006 3:58:40 AM
Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity

Electrical Energy Density, Joule/meter^3 and
Field Intensity, Volts/Meter for the Electron, Proton, and the
Earth, 1.0e22 joule/meter^3, 1.2e35 joule/meter^3 and
5.0e20 joule/meter^3 respectively, suggests that the two
act together to alter the vacuum permittivity eo by
a factor +/- delta eo.
 
Similarly  altering Magnetic Energy Density  and Field Intensity
seems to affect +/- delta uo in the same manner.
 
OTOH, altering either one, independently of the other can give
Orders of Magnitude Energy Amplification by Zero Point Energy,
ZPE, resulting in Antigravity Force Amplification.
 
Fred
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 20 05:09:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3KC9bNW016205; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 05:09:38 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3KC9ZBq016190; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 05:09:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 05:09:35 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=kptXvoTgyLWzAZjAqMAz2XRPqGuvYyjuSFhdGzsvZKFWJO2qSFMoKVrVf12bl+0T; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006442012921659@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 06:09:21 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940d71e6ceea345eaec49640bf28a13c2c8350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.168 Resent-Message-ID: <-3LG-.A.28D._n3REB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67674 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII IF ELECTRONS are proven to be NEGATIVE ENERGY attainment of high fields and energy density using them Electrostatically or Magnetically can enable reaching the ~ 2.0e16 ZPE Multiplication Factor. http://www.earthtech.org/publications/davis_STAIF_conference_1.pdf "We are presently unaware of any way to artificially generate gravitational squeezing of the vacuum in the laboratory. This will be left for future investigation." "It is beyond the scope of this paper to include all the technical configurations by which one can generate radial electric or magnetic fields. Suffice it to say that ultrahigh-intensity tabletop lasers have been used to generate extreme electric and magnetic field strengths in the lab." ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/20/2006 4:46:59 AM Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity FWIW, The ZPE Amplification Factor is 2.0e16 in order to get 0.5 newtons per joule AG Force. ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/20/2006 3:58:40 AM Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity Electrical Energy Density, Joule/meter^3 and Field Intensity, Volts/Meter for the Electron, Proton, and the Earth, 1.0e22 joule/meter^3, 1.2e35 joule/meter^3 and 5.0e20 joule/meter^3 respectively, suggests that the two act together to alter the vacuum permittivity eo by a factor +/- delta eo. Similarly altering Magnetic Energy Density and Field Intensity seems to affect +/- delta uo in the same manner. OTOH, altering either one, independently of the other can give Orders of Magnitude Energy Amplification by Zero Point Energy, ZPE, resulting in Antigravity Force Amplification. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
IF ELECTRONS are proven to be  NEGATIVE ENERGY
attainment of high fields and energy density using them
Electrostatically or Magnetically can enable reaching
the ~ 2.0e16 ZPE Multiplication Factor.
 
 
 

"We are presently unaware of any way to artificially generate gravitational squeezing of the vacuum in the

laboratory. This will be left for future investigation."

"It is beyond the scope of this paper to include all the technical configurations by which one can generate radial

electric or magnetic fields. Suffice it to say that ultrahigh-intensity tabletop lasers have been used to generate

extreme electric and magnetic field strengths in the lab."

 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/20/2006 4:46:59 AM
Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity

FWIW, The ZPE Amplification Factor is 2.0e16
in order to get 0.5 newtons per joule AG Force.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/20/2006 3:58:40 AM
Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity

Electrical Energy Density, Joule/meter^3 and
Field Intensity, Volts/Meter for the Electron, Proton, and the
Earth, 1.0e22 joule/meter^3, 1.2e35 joule/meter^3 and
5.0e20 joule/meter^3 respectively, suggests that the two
act together to alter the vacuum permittivity eo by
a factor +/- delta eo.
 
Similarly  altering Magnetic Energy Density  and Field Intensity
seems to affect +/- delta uo in the same manner.
 
OTOH, altering either one, independently of the other can give
Orders of Magnitude Energy Amplification by Zero Point Energy,
ZPE, resulting in Antigravity Force Amplification.
 
Fred
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 20 07:13:06 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3KECtdF007342; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 07:12:55 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3KECr4Z007319; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 07:12:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 07:12:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 10:12:51 -0400 Message-Id: <8C8329BA4C06D26-F8C-885C@mblkn-m08.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <8C8322803BEADC4-2648-4072@mblkn-m01.sysops.aol.com> <4p2e425r8r8mbqpmd1j2rr7eue6mivnsso@4ax.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <4p2e425r8r8mbqpmd1j2rr7eue6mivnsso@4ax.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Equivalence Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.72 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67675 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Robin van Spaandonk In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Wed, 19 Apr 2006 22:56:52 -0500: Hi, [snip] >HOWEVER, what motion can possibly eliminate the macroscopic magnetic field >of a permanent magnet?? [snip] The motion of sufficient positrons into the magnet to annihilate all the electrons. :^] <><><><><><><> This would mean that a PM loses mass? Hmmm, PMs as direct mass convertors. :-) I like it. But, wait a minute, the PM would also accumulate a net postive electrostatic charge, eh? Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 20 07:34:18 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3KEY583015789; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 07:34:06 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3KEY215015758; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 07:34:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 07:34:02 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-IronPort-AV: i="4.04,141,1143993600"; d="scan'208"; a="242513775:sNHT14643300" Message-ID: <44479BDA.8090402@iinet.net.au> Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 00:34:02 +1000 From: Wesley Bruce User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Shooting fish in a barrel at Wikipedia References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67676 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Harry Veeder wrote: >Jed Rothwell wrote: > > > >>The cold fusion article at Wikipedia has grown too large, so it must >>be split up. >>Someone asked me to assist with the sub-article "cold fusion >>controversy." I should not waste my time on this sort of thing, but I did. >> >>The skeptics will soon trash this and erase it, but I had a lot of >>fun writing it. Have a look before it is gone: >> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion_controversy >> >> >> > > > >Here is a passage from Jed's article in the Wikipedia. > > > > >>Calorimetry is based upon the laws of thermodynamics. Since most >>skeptics agree that autoradiographs, the laws of thermodynamics and so on are >>valid, cold fusion researchers feel the skeptics should should agree that cold >>fusion experiments are valid, and that the burden of proof is on those who >>claim these techniques and laws are inoperative. >> >> > >It got me thinking... >Suppose the excess heat is evidence that the second law of thermodynamics >is some how violated. In other words the various apparatus that CF >researches employ are able to produce usable heat (i.e. excess heat) without >an effective temperature difference. > >Harry > > > The thermodynamics laws are safe they are based on our understanding of entropy and times arrow and can't be wrong. Whether we have counted all the available energy is another matter. All the thermodynamics laws can be correct yet seem wrong if we have missed an energy flux. ZPE is the best example there; if it is really a radiation and not an illusion of probability then we do have potential energy. If it is not totally isotropic and isothermal or can be made locally non isotropic then we have energy to burn. I happen to believe that Dr Eugene Podkletnov has. Still the ballance of probabilities and Occam's razer both imply that we have a 'simple' case of electron screened fusion; not anything else. KISS Keep it simple stupid. ** From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 20 09:46:02 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3KGjjSV006252; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:45:45 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3KGjeJD006216; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:45:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:45:40 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=G3rR9sE1Vm/HPD8ZUeH5jNoBK1YS9TlnRdtZzNk+bHfXOp24UepfA3qqDbfBeRU4; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064420164536816@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Energy, Force and Gravity Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 10:45:36 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94026ae54debff56bfa0e2c721f0813124d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.179 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67677 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Here you go, Terry. :-) http://www.americanantigravity.com/documents/Dyatlov_Inhomogenous_Vacuum.pdf "Throughout the many centuries of the history of civilization, mankind has continually encountered unexplainable or anomalous phenomenon. These include unidentified flying objects (UFOs), ball lightning, tornadoes, poltergeists, explosions in the atmosphere as well as on the Earth’s surface that are not of manmade origin. Three basic approaches have been developed to perceive and study such phenomena. We shall provisionally refer to them as mythological, laboratory, and phenomenological events." "Since ancient times the mythological approach has served as an aid explain folklore and legends. The idea that UFOs are alien spacecraft has become widespread in our own time. In the presence of this mindset, other such phenomena also seems to be the creations developed by alien civilizations." ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

Here you go, Terry.  :-)

http://www.americanantigravity.com/documents/Dyatlov_Inhomogenous_Vacuum.pdf

"Throughout the many centuries of the history of civilization, mankind has continually

encountered unexplainable or anomalous phenomenon. These include unidentified flying objects

(UFOs), ball lightning, tornadoes, poltergeists, explosions in the atmosphere as well as on the

Earth’s surface that are not of manmade origin. Three basic approaches have been developed to

perceive and study such phenomena. We shall provisionally refer to them as mythological,

laboratory, and phenomenological events."

"Since ancient times the mythological approach has served as an aid explain folklore and

legends. The idea that UFOs are alien spacecraft has become widespread in our own time. In

the presence of this mindset, other such phenomena also seems to be the creations developed by

alien civilizations."

 

 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 20 09:48:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3KGmSQv007950; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:48:29 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3KGmRTP007925; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:48:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:48:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2006-03-10) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.6 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Message-ID: <000a01c6649a$38fd1890$28027841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: Energy Regimes Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:48:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C66470.4F9BE790" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: <-3dd7.A.s7B.at7REB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67678 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C66470.4F9BE790 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0007_01C66470.4F9D6E30" ------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C66470.4F9D6E30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankWesly Bruce wrote in the Wika shooting fish in the barrel thread.. >Still the ballance of probabilities and Occam's razer both imply that = we=20 >have a 'simple' case of electron screened fusion; not anything else.=20 >KISS Keep it simple stupid. Excellent thought Wesley. Consider a tree grows to maturity, is felled = for firewood, provides heat and the ashes provide a source of nutrients = for a new tree. What is taking place? Is this an elementary "energy = regime" . Is lightning another?=20 Is the universe composed of " seething masses of energy regimes" in a = constant state of change? What happens when they clash? Can it be possible for " transition energy" to be "extracted" during the = process? Wont this transition energy return to the seething mass?...and = the final question.. can a transit energy be described as cold fusion?=20 Occam rubs his beard and strokes his razor while pondering. Richartd ------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C66470.4F9D6E30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Wesly Bruce wrote in the Wika shooting fish in the barrel = thread..

>Still the ballance of probabilities and Occam's razer both imply = that we=20
>have a 'simple' case of electron screened fusion; not anything = else.=20
>KISS Keep it simple stupid.

Excellent thought Wesley.  Consider a tree grows to maturity, is = felled=20 for firewood, provides heat and the ashes provide a source of nutrients = for a=20 new tree. What is taking place? Is this an elementary "energy=20 regime" . Is lightning another? 

 Is the universe composed of  " seething masses of energy = regimes"=20 in a constant state of change? What happens when they clash?

Can it be possible for " transition energy" to be "extracted" during=20 the  process? Wont this transition energy return to the seething=20 mass?...and the final question.. can a transit energy be = described as=20 cold fusion?

Occam rubs his beard and strokes his razor while pondering.

Richartd

------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C66470.4F9D6E30-- ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C66470.4F9BE790 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000501c6649a$3862ad50$28027841@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C66470.4F9BE790-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 20 09:57:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3KGvk49013733; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:57:46 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3KGviAG013712; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:57:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:57:44 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060420125435.03e9ea50@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 12:57:26 -0400 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Shooting fish in a barrel at Wikipedia In-Reply-To: <44479BDA.8090402@iinet.net.au> References: <44479BDA.8090402@iinet.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67679 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I added a few more delicious quotes from Feshbach and others. Skeptics keep deleting this article. If you look for it but it has gone, let me know and I will restore it. I do not understand why the skeptics are so upset, since I have carefully represented their views and quoted their leaders verbatim. You'd think they would feel honored. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 20 10:26:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3KHQCrG027152; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 10:26:12 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3KHQAUM027135; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 10:26:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 10:26:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:26:31 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: Equivalence In-reply-to: <8C8329BA4C06D26-F8C-885C@mblkn-m08.sysops.aol.com> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67680 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robin van Spaandonk > > In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Wed, 19 Apr 2006 22:56:52 > -0500: > Hi, > [snip] >> HOWEVER, what motion can possibly eliminate the macroscopic magnetic > field >> of a permanent magnet?? > [snip] > The motion of sufficient positrons into the magnet to annihilate > all the electrons. :^] > > <><><><><><><> > > This would mean that a PM loses mass? Hmmm, PMs as direct mass > convertors. :-) > > I like it. > > But, wait a minute, the PM would also accumulate a net postive > electrostatic charge, eh? > > Terry With so many matter-antimatter collisions not only would the magnetic field disappear but so would the magnet. ;-) Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 20 11:06:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3KI64nx011595; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:06:04 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3KI63Df011576; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:06:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:06:03 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060420180556167.28F16740027D@mwinf3208.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060420180556.00a2dfb0@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 19:05:56 +0100 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Shooting fish in a barrel at Wikipedia Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67681 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:34 am 21/04/2006 +1000, Wesley wrote: >The thermodynamics laws are safe they are based on our understanding of >entropy and times arrow and can't be wrong. Yes they can. 8-) The "times arrow" is subjective, see: http://www.journaloftheoretics.com/Articles/5-3/commentary5-3a.pdf Frank From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 20 11:14:04 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3KIDrdP015791; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:13:53 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3KIDpjK015771; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:13:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:13:51 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060420181349244.3BB9B1C000B3@mwinf3204.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060420181349.00a1f468@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 19:13:49 +0100 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Equivalence Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67682 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:56 pm 19/04/2006 -0500, Harry wrote: > HOWEVER, what motion can possibly eliminate the > macroscopic magnetic field >of a permanent magnet?? What indeed? 8-) No doubt when people finally face up to what magnetism really is they will say, ----------------------------------------------- Never in the field of scientific endeavour have so many people have been so obtuse for so long. ----------------------------------------------- Frank From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 20 11:15:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3KIFEqd016669; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:15:15 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3KIFDfJ016652; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:15:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:15:13 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060420181512632.0F62C7400057@mwinf3208.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060420181512.00a294e0@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 19:15:12 +0100 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Equivalence Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67683 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:18 pm 20/04/2006 +1000, Robin wrote: > The motion of sufficient positrons into the magnet > to annihilate all the electrons. :^] I believe, with Hotson, that rumours of electron-positron "annihilation" have been greatly exaggerated. 8-) Frank From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 20 11:48:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3KImXZR030888; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:48:34 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3KImWF0030865; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:48:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:48:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 14:48:26 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: Shooting fish in a barrel at Wikipedia In-reply-to: <44479BDA.8090402@iinet.net.au> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67684 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Wesley Bruce wrote: > Harry Veeder wrote: > >> Jed Rothwell wrote: >> >> >> >>> The cold fusion article at Wikipedia has grown too large, so it must >>> be split up. >>> Someone asked me to assist with the sub-article "cold fusion >>> controversy." I should not waste my time on this sort of thing, but I did. >>> >>> The skeptics will soon trash this and erase it, but I had a lot of >>> fun writing it. Have a look before it is gone: >>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion_controversy >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> Here is a passage from Jed's article in the Wikipedia. >> >> >> >> >>> Calorimetry is based upon the laws of thermodynamics. Since most >>> skeptics agree that autoradiographs, the laws of thermodynamics and so on >>> are >>> valid, cold fusion researchers feel the skeptics should should agree that >>> cold >>> fusion experiments are valid, and that the burden of proof is on those who >>> claim these techniques and laws are inoperative. >>> >>> >> >> It got me thinking... >> Suppose the excess heat is evidence that the second law of thermodynamics >> is some how violated. In other words the various apparatus that CF >> researches employ are able to produce usable heat (i.e. excess heat) without >> an effective temperature difference. >> >> Harry >> >> >> > The thermodynamics laws are safe they are based on our understanding of > entropy I sense some confusion here regarding the difference between laws and definitions. The thermodynamic laws aren't based on our understanding of entropy. Entropy is a defined property, and it is suppose to change in accordance with the laws of thermodynamics. For comparison, the logical status of entropy is similar to the logical status of inertia. Inertia is a defined property and it is suppose to change in accordance with the laws of motion. Newton clearly distinguishes between laws and definitions in his Principia. Before the chapter entitled "The Laws or Axioms of Motion" is a chapter devoted to definitions. > and times arrow and can't be wrong. > Whether we have counted all > the available energy is another matter. All the thermodynamics laws can > be correct yet seem wrong if we have missed an energy flux. ZPE is the > best example there; if it is really a radiation and not an illusion of > probability then we do have potential energy. If it is not totally > isotropic and isothermal or can be made locally non isotropic then we > have energy to burn. I happen to believe that Dr Eugene Podkletnov has. > Still the ballance of probabilities and Occam's razer both imply that we > have a 'simple' case of electron screened fusion; not anything else. > KISS Keep it simple stupid. > > ** It easier to question an "axiom" then a "law", don't you think? Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 20 12:01:16 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3KJ13DP002699; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 12:01:04 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3KJ12L7002668; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 12:01:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 12:01:02 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <001d01c664ac$bf6bbfa0$0701a8c0@nixlaptop> From: "Nick Palmer" To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060419170628.03d147f0@mindspring.com> <007d01c66402$aa4a0e10$0301a8c0@nixlaptop> <7.0.1.0.2.20060419193041.03dcebc0@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Shooting fish in a barrel at Wikipedia Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 19:45:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67685 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: < X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Equivalence Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:50:54 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9401a293202081eff5cc74b144d81625acf350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.120.49 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67686 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Grimer wrote. > > At 02:18 pm 20/04/2006 +1000, Robin wrote: > > > The motion of sufficient positrons into the magnet > > to annihilate all the electrons. :^] > > > I believe, with Hotson, that rumours of electron-positron > "annihilation" have been greatly exaggerated. 8-) > Right on, Frank. The Positronium Ion may relax into a stable Triad, (*e-) or "Electronium". The folks at the Max Planck Institute as well as the folks at UCR (University of California, Riverside) and other are most likely looking for this now. http://www.mpi-hd.mpg.de/ato/psminus/ But you have to eject electrons along with the positrons or seed the magnet with Na-22 or other positron emitters to maintain charge balance. Fred > > Frank > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 20 19:01:24 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3L21AZT017594; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 19:01:10 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3L218fX017585; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 19:01:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 19:01:08 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 22:01:26 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: moving vs stationary weights In-reply-to: <2.2.32.20060413083935.00a0530c@pop.freeserve.net> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67687 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Grimer wrote: > At 12:26 pm 12/04/2006 -0500, Harry wrote: > >> If you are bicycling fast enough you can cross a >> wooden plank spanning ditch before the plank breaks. >> >> Normally we say this is because it takes time for the >> plank to deform and >break when subjected to a weight. >> >> However, consider for a moment an alternative and >> naive(?) explanation: it is because you weigh less >> when you are moving than when you are stationary. >> The idea is your motion reduces your gravitational >> mass independently of your inertial mass while >> gravitational acceleration remains unchanged. > > > > When I first read this post I was tempted to take > what one might call the Dr Pork approach and dismiss > it without thinking. > > That would have been a mistake because on reflection > I can see that such quosi modo (Introit - not Victor > Hugo) questions I would say Don Quixote is asking the question. > force one to think about the > fundamentals of mechanics. > > We can start off by imagining the plank has a slight > slope down towards the other side of the ditch. > In this case the bike need not touch the plank at all > and is effectively weightless as it crosses the ditch. > You can take the plank away and the bike will arrive > safely on the other side. I really have in mind a level plank. The plank deflects less when the bike crosses it quickly than when the bike rests on it. Is it only because it takes time for the plank to deflect or could it be that bike also weighs less? http://web.ncf.ca/eo200/dynamics/testing_weight.pdf > Similarly, a cop pursuing a robber can defy the > "Law of Gravity" by flinging himself across the gap > between a high building and a slightly lower one > without dashing himself to pieces in the alley below. > > The problem with Gravity is that most laymen think > of it as a Force. And the problem with the layman's > notion of Force is that it is a static concept which > does not involve time. The gap between the building > is a kingdom in which King Force's rule is absolute. > Enter it, and SPLOSH - you are raspberry jam on the > pavement below. One instant you are at the top of > the building and the next you are mangled on the > ground. It's a discrete change - one might even > describe the attempt to cross the forbidden zone a > quantum leap from life to death. > > It is reminiscent of the way that an electron jumps > from one level to another. Where is the electron in > between? It isn't anywhere (allegedly). What is the > time interval between it leaving one level and > arriving at the other. There isn't any interval > (allegedly). But then quantum physics was always more > the playground of physicists who preferred maths to > engineering. > > If you want to understand the way gravity works you > want to forget about Force altogether. You want to > erase the word from your vocabulary. You want to > think about motion - and motion involves time. > Quod non agit, non existit as Leibniz observed. > What kind of motion? The # raindrops keep falling > on my head # kind. although since gravity raindrops > are rather faster than the watery kind, perhaps a > hail of bullets being fired from the robber's > accomplices in a 'copter provides a more realistic > image. Don Quixotes vs the Windmill? ;-) > If the cop leaps across the gap fast enough he can > evade the bullets save for a flesh wound or two > but if he dallies too long he will finish up a > cheese grater. > > Now the motion which really interests us is not > the motion of the bullets but the motion of the > bike/cop as it/he traverses the gap. This is a > motion nested within a motion - a velocity of a > velocity - and this immediately raises a problem > because we are using the same words at two > different levels which causes confusion in any > hierarchical system. If you call both the > headmaster and his assistant, headmaster, then > you are not going to know when you are talking > to the decision maker. A workable hierarchical > system needs to have very distinctive names for > each level of command otherwise there is chaos. > One system where chaos is anathema is the Army. > In the army you have a plethora of distinctive > names and badges so that everyone knows exactly > who they are talking to and what authority the > person wields. Private, Corporal, Sergeant, > Lieutenant, Captain, Major, Colonel, Brigadier, > General - to name but the single barrelled ranks. > One knows exactly who one is dealing with in the > army. > > In case anyone thinks, "Ah! we have a name for > the second order velocity. We have acceleration." > > Now we haven't! Acceleration is the portmanteau > term which includes both velocities - just as > "squad" might include both > the private ("...a velocity") > and his corporal ("the velocity of..."). > > Likewise, jerk is a portmanteau word equivalent to company, say; jounce is a > portmanteau word equivalent to regiment - and so on. > > The trouble with portmanteaus it that they get increasingly complicated and > difficult to understand. This is because they fail to shift their datum which > is at the level of private in the case of the army and distance/time in the > case of dynamics. > > So, you can see that, in a sense, Harry is right. You do weigh less when you > are moving than when you are stationary. In effect you have been promoted from > Private to Lance-Corporal 8-) > > Cheers, > > Frank > Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 20 23:58:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3L6w1XL006885; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 23:58:01 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3L6vxxG006864; Thu, 20 Apr 2006 23:57:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 23:57:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <44488241.3010908@usfamily.net> Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 01:57:05 -0500 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Shooting fish in a barrel at Wikipedia References: <44479BDA.8090402@iinet.net.au> <7.0.1.0.2.20060420125435.03e9ea50@mindspring.com> In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060420125435.03e9ea50@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67688 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed Rothwell wrote: > I added a few more delicious quotes from Feshbach and others. > > Skeptics keep deleting this article. If you look for it but it has > gone, let me know and I will restore it. > > I do not understand why the skeptics are so upset, since I have > carefully represented their views and quoted their leaders verbatim. > You'd think they would feel honored. > You are upsetting their pet paradigm Jed. Their behavior is similar to the behavior of religious people how believe that they are on a mission for God. One need look no farther than the rantings of Parksie to see it. --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 21 03:11:43 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3LABcLc023894; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 03:11:38 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3LABOvC023832; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 03:11:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 03:11:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=NEXdSc0I6eQmXXn1A5fx3bEKuAzAC/GFYSNAxbf8RbZTh1kaBG6olKTsd3hK+PhH; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064521101116985@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Energy Density and ZPE Extraction Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 04:11:16 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940d7d4487eb1dcb270b875a0d5827e1ae8350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.162 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67689 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Posted earlier. > > Electrical Energy Density, Joule/meter^3 and > Field Intensity, Volts/Meter for the Electron, Proton, and the > Earth, 1.0e22 joule/meter^3, 1.2e35 joule/meter^3 and > 5.0e20 joule/meter^3 respectively, suggests that the two > act together to alter the vacuum permittivity eo by > a factor +/- delta eo. > > Similarly altering Magnetic Energy Density and Field Intensity > seems to affect +/- delta uo in the same manner. > The "Gross" energy density joules/meter^3 of a cubic meter (1,000 kg) of water is mc^2 joule/meter^3 = 9.0e19 joules/meter^3. But, there are 3.3e29 electrons, each with 1.0e22 joule/m^3 , 6.6e28 protons with 1.2e35 joule/m^3 and 3.3e28 oxygen atoms containing 16 nucleons, each with 1.2e35 joule/meter^3. OTOH, at the boundary "Electrical" Double Layer of an electrolysis cell, P & F or the "Joe Cell", Mizuno's W arc, or a cavitation bubble collapse ,or sonofusion bubble the energy density can be enormous. Could these energy densities be sufficient to effect Polarization of the Vacuum and ZPE Extraction from it? The Deuteron-Packed Pd lattice too? Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Posted earlier.
>  
> Electrical Energy Density, Joule/meter^3 and
> Field Intensity, Volts/Meter for the Electron, Proton, and the
> Earth, 1.0e22 joule/meter^3, 1.2e35 joule/meter^3 and
> 5.0e20 joule/meter^3 respectively, suggests that the two
> act together to alter the vacuum permittivity eo by
> a factor +/- delta eo.
>
> Similarly  altering Magnetic Energy Density  and Field Intensity
> seems to affect +/- delta uo in the same manner.
>
The "Gross" energy density joules/meter^3 of a cubic meter (1,000 kg)
of water is mc^2  joule/meter^3 = 9.0e19 joules/meter^3.
But, there are  3.3e29 electrons, each with  1.0e22 joule/m^3 ,
6.6e28 protons with 1.2e35 joule/m^3 and 3.3e28 oxygen atoms
containing 16 nucleons, each with 1.2e35 joule/meter^3.
 
OTOH, at the boundary "Electrical" Double Layer of
an electrolysis cell, P & F or the "Joe Cell",  Mizuno's W arc, or a
cavitation bubble collapse ,or sonofusion bubble the energy
density can be enormous.
 
Could these energy densities be sufficient to effect Polarization of the Vacuum
and ZPE Extraction from it?
The Deuteron-Packed Pd lattice too?
 
Fred
 
 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 21 03:44:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3LAiA1B001867; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 03:44:10 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3LAi87M001847; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 03:44:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 03:44:08 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=FxDe+99z6j1xQ8WDUj6GuBsD9gfPIUXWIEUXix4QvSfVsj5sGsGWQ2SxaMIefjaO; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064521104359676@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Energy Density and ZPE Extraction Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 04:43:59 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9404b1989eb666fc3acc16f234f0c0d8b48350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.32 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67690 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII This could explain "strange" Cold Fusion, nuclear transmutation reactions too. Dyatov's Polarized Vacuum: http://www.americanantigravity.com/articles/526/1/Polarization-Model-of-the-Inhomogeneous-Physical-Vacuum Davis and Puthoff's Polarized Vacuum: http://www.earthtech.org/publications/davis_STAIF_conference_1.pdf "We are presently unaware of any way to artificially generate gravitational squeezing of the vacuum in the laboratory. This will be left for future investigation." " Suffice it to say that ultrahigh-intensity tabletop lasers have been used to generate extreme electric and magnetic field strengths in the lab." ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 4/21/2006 4:12:05 AM Subject: Re: Energy Density and ZPE Extraction Posted earlier. > > Electrical Energy Density, Joule/meter^3 and > Field Intensity, Volts/Meter for the Electron, Proton, and the > Earth, 1.0e22 joule/meter^3, 1.2e35 joule/meter^3 and > 5.0e20 joule/meter^3 respectively, suggests that the two > act together to alter the vacuum permittivity eo by > a factor +/- delta eo. > > Similarly altering Magnetic Energy Density and Field Intensity > seems to affect +/- delta uo in the same manner. > The "Gross" energy density joules/meter^3 of a cubic meter (1,000 kg) of water is mc^2 joule/meter^3 = 9.0e19 joules/meter^3. But, there are 3.3e29 electrons, each with 1.0e22 joule/m^3 , 6.6e28 protons with 1.2e35 joule/m^3 and 3.3e28 oxygen atoms containing 16 nucleons, each with 1.2e35 joule/meter^3. OTOH, at the boundary "Electrical" Double Layer of an electrolysis cell, P & F or the "Joe Cell", Mizuno's W arc, or a cavitation bubble collapse ,or sonofusion bubble the energy density can be enormous. Could these energy densities be sufficient to effect Polarization of the Vacuum and ZPE Extraction from it? The Deuteron-Packed Pd lattice too? Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
This could explain "strange"  Cold Fusion, nuclear transmutation reactions too.
 
Dyatov's Polarized Vacuum:
 
 
Davis and Puthoff's Polarized Vacuum:
 
 

"We are presently unaware of any way to artificially generate gravitational squeezing of the vacuum in the

laboratory. This will be left for future investigation."

" Suffice it to say that ultrahigh-intensity tabletop lasers have been used to generate

extreme electric and magnetic field strengths in the lab."

----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/21/2006 4:12:05 AM
Subject: Re: Energy Density and ZPE Extraction

Posted earlier.
>  
> Electrical Energy Density, Joule/meter^3 and
> Field Intensity, Volts/Meter for the Electron, Proton, and the
> Earth, 1.0e22 joule/meter^3, 1.2e35 joule/meter^3 and
> 5.0e20 joule/meter^3 respectively, suggests that the two
> act together to alter the vacuum permittivity eo by
> a factor +/- delta eo.
>
> Similarly  altering Magnetic Energy Density  and Field Intensity
> seems to affect +/- delta uo in the same manner.
>
The "Gross" energy density joules/meter^3 of a cubic meter (1,000 kg)
of water is mc^2  joule/meter^3 = 9.0e19 joules/meter^3.
But, there are  3.3e29 electrons, each with  1.0e22 joule/m^3 ,
6.6e28 protons with 1.2e35 joule/m^3 and 3.3e28 oxygen atoms
containing 16 nucleons, each with 1.2e35 joule/meter^3.
 
OTOH, at the boundary "Electrical" Double Layer of
an electrolysis cell, P & F or the "Joe Cell",  Mizuno's W arc, or a
cavitation bubble collapse ,or sonofusion bubble the energy
density can be enormous.
 
Could these energy densities be sufficient to effect Polarization of the Vacuum
and ZPE Extraction from it?
The Deuteron-Packed Pd lattice too?
 
Fred
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 21 05:01:12 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3LC10up030014; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 05:01:00 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3LC0wcA029970; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 05:00:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 05:00:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=L0Xhj2wnVmmTNXJfSqaO2LbFRvU22P6Q+4Y7BAYz6DQfVgnTSwMCGbNlaCu1pHzk; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006452112049968@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Muonium Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 06:00:49 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940c3e1e482f465c8e1b407c3ef1ecfe0ec350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.103 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67691 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII On 04-18-06 Junkyard dog-Mean Jones Beene wrote. > > I can tell you this - if I had a "joe cell" that was showing some > promise but maybe not enough - I would start sparging it with > a little argon to see if things improved.... > Actually, Leroy er Jones the low pressure intake manifold suction on the Joe Cell causes water to evaporate from it but when the pressure rises back to atmospheric the ~ 1% Argon in air can diffuse into the "joe cell " water. No? That concentric-cylinder set of "electrically floating" electrodes between the cathode and outer anode is a natural for Electrical Double Layer ZPE energy extraction and doing strange things (a Fermi sea tsunami?) to the argon that can slip down through the Liquid- SS metal interface when the cell sees atmospheric pressure. For the younger set. :-) "And it's bad, bad Leroy Brown The baddest man in the whole damned town Badder than a-old King Kong And meaner than a junkyard dog" Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
On 04-18-06
 
Junkyard dog-Mean Jones Beene wrote.
>
> I can tell you this - if I had a "joe cell" that was showing some
> promise but maybe not enough - I would start sparging it with
> a little argon to see if things improved....
>
Actually, Leroy er Jones the low pressure intake manifold suction
on the Joe Cell causes water to evaporate from it but when the
pressure rises back to atmospheric the ~ 1% Argon in air
can diffuse into the "joe cell " water. No?
 
That concentric-cylinder set of "electrically floating" electrodes
between the cathode and outer anode is a natural for
Electrical Double Layer ZPE energy extraction and
doing strange things (a Fermi sea tsunami?) to the argon that can
slip down through the Liquid- SS metal interface when the cell sees
atmospheric pressure.
 
For the younger set.  :-)
 
"And it's bad, bad Leroy Brown
The baddest man in the whole damned town
Badder than a-old King Kong
And meaner than a junkyard dog"
 
Fred

 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 21 09:19:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3LGJDY9006080; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 09:19:14 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3LGIhbv005585; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 09:18:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 09:18:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=jcbxXq3fqMFf8aY+FKY39ssRndGoG8wJjrGFYJiyZbnWfWOjBMtG885i9lWj1PAb; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200645211559625@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Muonium Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 09:05:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940e1f43f71f980b166d9e4285fedbb046e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.172 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67693 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII One might conclude from all of this is that local high fields and high energy density cause virtual particles to interact with the real ones. Even Virtual Muons. Fred Dyatlov writes: " The idea that the physical vacuum is a void arises as early as Democritus. Here is what Einstein and Infeld wrote about it [54]: "Throughout the history of science, from Greek philosophy to modern physics, there have been constant attempts to reduce the outward complexity of natural phenomena to some simple physical ideas and relationships. This is a basic principle of all natural philosophy. It was expressed as early as the work of the atomists. Twenty-three centuries ago, Democritus wrote, ‘ . . . only atoms and empty space are real.’" " "In quantum chromodynamics, the physical vacuum is considered as a lattice, at the nodes of which are located pairs made up of a c-quark and a c-antiquark connected by a "string"; i.e., these quarks at spaced some distance apart and are dipoles. Such a structure means that the physical vacuum is formed from dipoles and in macroscopic terms is a polarization medium." " Shipov’s theory uses the geometry of absolute parallelism and not the Riemann geometry on which Einstein’s general theory of relativity is based. The geometry of absolute parallelism is based on the concepts not only of curving but of twisting space-time. There are two twists: right and left. Therefor two physical worlds emerge, with right and left twisting, respectively. According to Shipov’s theory, the particlesantiparticles with positive masses belong to the right world. These are the well-known particles and antiparticles. The little-known particles-antiparticles with negative masses belong to the left world. It is thought at present that they are dispersed in space. The equality to zero of the total electrical charge and the total mass in the Universe and the absolute neutrality of the PV (at every point in space) in regard to both electrical charges and masses follow strictly from Shipov’s theory. Matter contains only the positive masses of the right world. The negative mass of the left world is scattered between the matter. The positive and negative electrical charges are balanced in both the right and left worlds." ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

One might conclude from all of this is that local high fields and high energy density

cause virtual particles to interact with the real ones. Even Virtual Muons.

Fred

Dyatlov writes:

" The idea that the physical vacuum is a void arises as early as Democritus. Here is what

Einstein and Infeld wrote about it [54]: "Throughout the history of science, from Greek

philosophy to modern physics, there have been constant attempts to reduce the outward

complexity of natural phenomena to some simple physical ideas and relationships. This is a

basic principle of all natural philosophy. It was expressed as early as the work of the atomists.

Twenty-three centuries ago, Democritus wrote, ‘ . . . only atoms and empty space are real.’" "

"In quantum chromodynamics, the physical vacuum is considered as a lattice, at the nodes

of which are located pairs made up of a c-quark and a c-antiquark connected by a "string"; i.e.,

these quarks at spaced some distance apart and are dipoles. Such a structure means that the

physical vacuum is formed from dipoles and in macroscopic terms is a polarization medium."

" Shipov’s theory uses the geometry of absolute

parallelism and not the Riemann geometry on which Einstein’s general theory of relativity is

based. The geometry of absolute parallelism is based on the concepts not only of curving but of

twisting space-time. There are two twists: right and left. Therefor two physical worlds emerge,

with right and left twisting, respectively. According to Shipov’s theory, the particlesantiparticles

with positive masses belong to the right world. These are the well-known particles

and antiparticles. The little-known particles-antiparticles with negative masses belong to the left

world. It is thought at present that they are dispersed in space. The equality to zero of the total

electrical charge and the total mass in the Universe and the absolute neutrality of the PV (at

every point in space) in regard to both electrical charges and masses follow strictly from

Shipov’s theory. Matter contains only the positive masses of the right world. The negative mass

of the left world is scattered between the matter. The positive and negative electrical charges are

balanced in both the right and left worlds."

 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 21 09:35:09 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3LFoE9F012677; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 08:54:22 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3LDSUsw004472; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 06:28:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 06:28:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=AtBKtO159urJ0WNyjorNL1rWpXleg8GFGTWa275tx5yYTcW7COvUuuiLX3ApGVzW; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006452112299833@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Muonium Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 06:29:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9407d1ce82a8494f47bcc6dff210a1f95d4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.66 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67692 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII In anticipation of Robin's response. > > That concentric-cylinder set of "electrically floating" electrodes > between the cathode and outer anode is a natural for > Electrical Double Layer ZPE energy extraction and > doing strange things (a Fermi sea tsunami?) to the argon that can > slip down through the Liquid- SS metal interface when the cell sees > atmospheric pressure. > I can visualize Mills' Hydrino formation under conditions here too. Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/21/2006 6:01:47 AM Subject: Re: Muonium On 04-18-06 Junkyard dog-Mean Jones Beene wrote. > > I can tell you this - if I had a "joe cell" that was showing some > promise but maybe not enough - I would start sparging it with > a little argon to see if things improved.... > Actually, Leroy er Jones the low pressure intake manifold suction on the Joe Cell causes water to evaporate from it but when the pressure rises back to atmospheric the ~ 1% Argon in air can diffuse into the "joe cell " water. No? That concentric-cylinder set of "electrically floating" electrodes between the cathode and outer anode is a natural for Electrical Double Layer ZPE energy extraction and doing strange things (a Fermi sea tsunami?) to the argon that can slip down through the Liquid- SS metal interface when the cell sees atmospheric pressure. For the younger set. :-) "And it's bad, bad Leroy Brown The baddest man in the whole damned town Badder than a-old King Kong And meaner than a junkyard dog" Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
In anticipation of Robin's response. 
>
> That concentric-cylinder set of "electrically floating" electrodes
> between the cathode and outer anode is a natural for
> Electrical Double Layer ZPE energy extraction and
> doing strange things (a Fermi sea tsunami?) to the argon that can
> slip down through the Liquid- SS metal interface when the cell sees
> atmospheric pressure.
>
I can visualize Mills' Hydrino  formation under conditions here too.
 
Fred
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/21/2006 6:01:47 AM
Subject: Re: Muonium

On 04-18-06
 
Junkyard dog-Mean Jones Beene wrote.
>
> I can tell you this - if I had a "joe cell" that was showing some
> promise but maybe not enough - I would start sparging it with
> a little argon to see if things improved....
>
Actually, Leroy er Jones the low pressure intake manifold suction
on the Joe Cell causes water to evaporate from it but when the
pressure rises back to atmospheric the ~ 1% Argon in air
can diffuse into the "joe cell " water. No?
 
That concentric-cylinder set of "electrically floating" electrodes
between the cathode and outer anode is a natural for
Electrical Double Layer ZPE energy extraction and
doing strange things (a Fermi sea tsunami?) to the argon that can
slip down through the Liquid- SS metal interface when the cell sees
atmospheric pressure.
 
For the younger set.  :-)
 
"And it's bad, bad Leroy Brown
The baddest man in the whole damned town
Badder than a-old King Kong
And meaner than a junkyard dog"
 
Fred

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 21 10:34:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3LGqS7G000899; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 09:52:29 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3LGqQVS000865; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 09:52:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 09:52:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <005501c66555$0f416f90$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Subject: Re: Muonium Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 08:05:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: <1CS96B.A.ZN.J3QSEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67694 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: [Resend] Fred, It is probably a waste of time to continue to speculate on the Joe Cell, given that it would be so very easy to demonstrate one scientifically - IF - it were really a true energy anomaly. Not that you and I have any disdain to speculate on the improbable. Yet after many years we still have not one single 'bona fide' report from a University verifying that an ICE can be driven by a Joe Cell (without being fueled by the oil in the crankcase - which is what is happening in most of the anecdotes). I hear they do have some pretty good Universities down in Oz and certainly at least one non-football-oriented Technical Institute is located in Southern California. > "That concentric-cylinder set of "electrically floating" > electrodes between the cathode and outer anode is a natural for > Electrical Double Layer ZPE energy extraction and doing strange > things (a Fermi sea tsunami?) to the argon that can slip down > through the Liquid- SS metal interface when the cell sees atmospheric pressure." Yes - if the Joe Cell is making either a longer-lived "molecular muonium" or alternatively hydrinos - then very likely some argon is involved in the process and it would be advantageous to add more (probably). BTW - bet you didn't know that water alone can concentrate argon from the 1% to about a 40/40/20 mix (argon/oxygen/nitrogen). Here's some factoids from a previous post: Factoids: Argon is the most common and cheapest of the noble gases (~1% of air). The net quantity of argon in air has actually increased since the Earth was formed because radioactive potassium turns into argon as it decays - and not that much argon escapes into space as it is less volatile than O2 or N2. Not only that, solar neutrinos can convert the Cl in salt-water to argon. This is one of the ways solar neutrinos are identified. Argon can be extracted from air easily by fractional distillation, and when using the exhaust in the final Linde-process stage to cool the pressurized bulk air - it is energy efficient to extract. Machines that do this are occasionally for sale on eBay for a few thousand dollars, With your own "factory" as many welder own - the cost of large quantities is 'de minimis' but gas suppliers often get a huge markup for it. So-called "heli-arc" welding is a technique in which an inert gas is blown around the welding tip to protect the hot metal from oxidation. Though named after helium, actually it is done using argon, because argon is a hundred times cheaper in bulk and just as inert. Argon is 240% more soluble in water than nitrogen, about the same as oxygen. Although I have never seen it mentioned , utilizing this property in a continuous process of vacuum distillation of seawater - would seen that this would be a way to concentrate Argon substantially before fractional distillation, lowering the cost even more. Seawater in a vacuum should give up a mix of 40/40/20 argon/oxygen/nitrogen but could the vacuum processing of seawater be less energy intensive than just starting with 99 times more air than you need? Argon is considered to be very inert and is not known to form true chemical compounds, as do krypton, xenon, and radon. Naturally occurring argon is a mixture of three isotopes. Twelve other radioactive isotopes are known to exist. Here is detail info on isotopes - and the color spectrum (mostly sky-blue when ionized): http://chemlab.pc.maricopa.edu/periodic/Ar.html The muon is know to have an anomalous magnetic moment. A difference between predicted and measured values is an indication of physics beyond the Standard Model. Argon is said by R. Mills to be among the best catalysts for hydrino formation. This is another reason why a plasma of deuterium and argon should have anomalous properties. But because these gases are commonly used in industry for such things as surface etching of semiconductors, and with no neutrons being noticed, this sets a limit on reactivity which is in no way even approached by the Joe Cell. Again, until this device is proven otherwise, the best scenario for why-and-how some older engines can run on the Joe Cell - even a closed Joe cell is clear - they are being fueled by the oil in the crankcase - and old engines with loose-rings will burn a lot of oil - which is what is happening in most of the anecdotes. The only test I know of where an engine was taken-in for semi-scientific exhaust monitoring showed the same level of exhaust pollutants including CO, as any normal engine would even thought the 'petrol' line was shut - that to me is an indication of the real modality in these anecdotes - oil burning. BTW this test is available on video from an Aussie TV station but it was not the Joe Cell per se - but a close cousin, perhaps inspired by the same kind of trickster (or at worse : con-man) mentality. Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 21 10:44:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3LHi3br005888; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 10:44:03 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3LHi1Ft005867; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 10:44:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 10:44:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=PMcGc/fyXVgDW+eTGNCY52CHMlbsy/0zu9r0vfhsNbQ7uwcQIF9bpaEnZ5lObi1o; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064521174351863@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Muonium Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 11:43:51 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940da6866bd35c15aea79660a8085eeb5f6350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.61 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67695 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones Beene wrote: > > [Resend] > > Fred, > > It is probably a waste of time to continue to speculate on the Joe > Cell, given that it would be so very easy to demonstrate one > scientifically - IF - it were really a true energy anomaly. > Snip > > > "That concentric-cylinder set of "electrically floating" > > electrodes between the cathode and outer anode is a natural for > > Electrical Double Layer ZPE energy extraction and doing strange > > things (a Fermi sea tsunami?) to the argon that can slip down > > through the Liquid- SS metal interface when the cell sees > atmospheric pressure." > > Yes - if the Joe Cell is making either a longer-lived "molecular > muonium" or alternatively hydrinos - then very likely some argon > is involved in the process and it would be advantageous to add > more (probably). BTW - bet you didn't know that water alone can > concentrate argon from the 1% to about a 40/40/20 mix > (argon/oxygen/nitrogen). Here's some factoids from a previous > post: > > Factoids: > > Argon is the most common and cheapest of the noble gases (~1% of > air). The net quantity of argon in air has actually increased > since the Earth was formed because radioactive potassium turns > into argon as it decays - and not that much argon escapes into > space as it is less volatile than O2 or N2. Not only that, solar > neutrinos can convert the Cl in salt-water to argon. This is one > of the ways solar neutrinos are identified. > Argon-35 made by Chlorine-35 neutrino capture reverts to Cl-35 by EC in 1.77 seconds, the Cl-37 + neutrino ---> Ar-37---> Cl-37 in 35 days. > Snip > > > Again, until this device is proven otherwise, the best scenario > for why-and-how some older engines can run on the Joe Cell - even > a closed Joe cell is clear - they are being fueled by the oil in > the crankcase - and old engines with loose-rings will burn a lot > of oil - which is what is happening in most of the anecdotes. > How many miles/quart can you running an engine off the crankcase breather pipe, Jones? > > The only test I know of where an engine was taken-in for > semi-scientific exhaust monitoring showed the same level of > exhaust pollutants including CO, as any normal engine would even > thought the 'petrol' line was shut - > There is atmospheric CO2 going into the air intake, along with the possibility of Carbon from N2 or O2, Argon and after spending several hours reading Dyatlov's 112 page pdf, even helium-burning fusion sans gammas, with Negative Energy Vacuum sucking up the gammas and heat. >. > that to me is an indication > of the real modality in these anecdotes - oil burning. BTW this > test is available on video from an Aussie TV station but it was > not the Joe Cell per se - but a close cousin, perhaps inspired by > the same kind of trickster (or at worse : con-man) mentality. > The "Wizard of OZ" won't like that. Sure looks like you might actually be an Energy Industry dis-information "Mole" Jones. :-) > Fred > > Jones > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 21 11:00:20 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3LHxgiT016748; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 10:59:42 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3LHxdDA016713; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 10:59:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 10:59:39 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <001501c6654b$d30e7350$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex-l" References: <410-22006452112049968@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Muonium Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 06:59:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67696 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred, It is probably a waste of time to continue to speculate on the Joe Cell, given that it would be so very easy to demonstrate one scientifically - IF - it were really a true energy anomaly. Not that you and I have any disdain to speculate on the improbable. Yet after many years we still have not one single 'bona fide' report from a University verifying that an ICE can be driven by a Joe Cell (without being fueled by the oil in the crankcase - which is what is happening in most of the anecdotes). I hear they do have some pretty good Universities down in Oz and certainly at least one non-football-oriented Technical Institute is located in Southern California. > "That concentric-cylinder set of "electrically floating" > electrodes between the cathode and outer anode is a natural for > Electrical Double Layer ZPE energy extraction and doing strange > things (a Fermi sea tsunami?) to the argon that can slip down > through the Liquid- SS metal interface when the cell sees atmospheric pressure." Yes - if the Joe Cell is making either a longer-lived "molecular muonium" or alternatively hydrinos - then very likely some argon is involved in the process and it would be advantageous to add more (probably). BTW - bet you didn't know that water alone can concentrate argon from the 1% to about a 40/40/20 mix (argon/oxygen/nitrogen). Here's some factoids from a previous post: Factoids: Argon is the most common and cheapest of the noble gases (~1% of air). The net quantity of argon in air has actually increased since the Earth was formed because radioactive potassium turns into argon as it decays - and not that much argon escapes into space as it is less volatile than O2 or N2. Not only that, solar neutrinos can convert the Cl in salt-water to argon. This is one of the ways solar neutrinos are identified. Argon can be extracted from air easily by fractional distillation, and when using the exhaust in the final Linde-rpocess stage to cool the pressurized bulk air - it is energy efficient to extract. Machines that do this are occasionlally for sale on eBay for a few thousand dollars, With your own "factory" as many welder own - the cost of large quantities is 'de minimis' but gas suppliers often get a huge markup for it. So-called "heli-arc" welding is a technique in which an inert gas is blown around the welding tip to protect the hot metal from oxidation. Though named after helium, actually it is done using argon, because argon is a hundred times cheaper in bulk and just as inert. Argon is 240% more soluable in water than nitrogen, about the same as oxygen. Although I have never seen it mentioned , utililizing this property in a continuous process of vacuum distillation of seawater - would seen that this would be a way to concentrate Argon substantially before fractional distillation, lowering the cost even more. Seawater in a vacuum should give up a mix of 40/40/20 argon/oxygen/nirogen but could the vacuum processing of seawater be less energy intensive than just starting with 99 times more air than you need? Argon is considered to be very inert and is not known to form true chemical compounds, as do kypton, xenon, and radon. Naturally occurring argon is a mixture of three isotopes. Twelve other radioactive isotopes are known to exist. Here is detail info on isotopes - and the color spectrum (mostly sky-blue when ionized): http://chemlab.pc.maricopa.edu/periodic/Ar.html The muon is know to have an anomalous magnetic moment. A difference between predicted and measured values is an indication of physics beyond the Standard Model. Argon is said by R. Mills to be among the best catalysts for hydrino formation. This is another reason why a plama of deuterium and argon should have anomalous properties, but becasue these are commonly used in industry for such things as surface etching, and with no neturons being noticed, this sets a limit on reactivity - and certainly only "thin" plasmas would seem to have any chance for From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 21 12:33:14 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3LJU34u008295; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 12:32:50 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3LJIMh8002679; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 12:18:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 12:18:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: ThomasClark123@aol.com Message-ID: <3a5.1338e63.317a88b9@aol.com> Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 15:12:57 EDT Subject: Natural force field technologies To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: ThomasClark123@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1145646777" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5055 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67697 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1145646777 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Natural force field technologies - Radio Biology Secret of Life (Paperback) by Georges Lakhovsky, Mark Clement; Delands Magnetic Canopy (Antenna tuned to natural harmonics speed of light etc.) [Enchanted Fairy Tale Forest Ether Force Field Energy Creation Plans] as posted at http://www.rhfweb.com/aeff.html -------------------------------1145646777 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Natural force field technologies - Radio Biology Secret of Life (Paperb= ack) by Georges Lakhovsky, Mark Clement; Delands Magnetic Canopy (Antenna tu= ned to natural harmonics speed of light etc.)
 
-------------------------------1145646777-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 21 12:51:18 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3LJp0AN018278; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 12:51:01 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3LJowMd018257; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 12:50:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 12:50:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=qRimDglhhUvlxaPbRPi3WS6NpR+IuKvNvCwi0l8C6lNU+1STQJz6Xj3f6uHfULBk; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064521195047830@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Muonium Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 13:50:47 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940629845b0a9e80d42ed6d5348bf414944350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.11 Resent-Message-ID: <3lY3qB.A.FdE.heTSEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67698 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Actually Jones, when you compare the Joe Cell to the Pons & Fleischmann Cell, the one that "mysteriously exploded" taking into account the surface area, spacing, ion donation from the SS materials, and the battery voltage, there isn't a whole hell of a lot of difference, except that the Joe Cell putatively works. Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/21/2006 12:46:00 PM Subject: Re: Muonium In anticipation of Robin's response. > > That concentric-cylinder set of "electrically floating" electrodes > between the cathode and outer anode is a natural for > Electrical Double Layer ZPE energy extraction and > doing strange things (a Fermi sea tsunami?) to the argon that can > slip down through the Liquid- SS metal interface when the cell sees > atmospheric pressure. > I can visualize Mills' Hydrino formation under conditions here too. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Actually Jones, when you compare the Joe Cell to the
Pons & Fleischmann Cell, the one that "mysteriously exploded"  taking into
account the surface area, spacing,  ion donation from the SS materials,
and the battery voltage, there isn't a whole hell of a lot of difference, except that
the Joe Cell putatively works.
 
Fred
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/21/2006 12:46:00 PM
Subject: Re: Muonium

In anticipation of Robin's response. 
>
> That concentric-cylinder set of "electrically floating" electrodes
> between the cathode and outer anode is a natural for
> Electrical Double Layer ZPE energy extraction and
> doing strange things (a Fermi sea tsunami?) to the argon that can
> slip down through the Liquid- SS metal interface when the cell sees
> atmospheric pressure.
>
I can visualize Mills' Hydrino  formation under conditions here too.
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 21 13:13:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3LKDX1f028533; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 13:13:34 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3LKDVdh028513; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 13:13:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 13:13:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=ix.netcom.com; b=a1DsGgG8mKNKcwG36guBr3fZ9yKBBqNHriEsqJtSh8Aw8EhO/l5FLzuBU5Jz+92B; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006452120143850@ix.netcom.com> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: aki@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.1.47.0 (Windows) From: "" To: "vortex-l" Subject: FW: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday April 21, 2006 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 13:14:03 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: c4cc7f5f697e8746f66dc3a06d5924d8ffae2851b69bf927b5555e7adae4abc47ef9f80aaf77e5a4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 216.175.99.229 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67699 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: forward from aki@ix.netcom.com (Akira Kawasaki) > [Original Message] > From: What's New To: Date: 4/21/2006 11:57:24 AM Subject: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday April 21, 2006 WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 21 Apr 06 Tucson, AZ 1. "NUKULER" OPTION: BUSH HEARS FROM 13 PROMINENT PHYSICISTS. Five are Nobel laureates, three are former presidents of the American Physical Society and all thirteen believe the use of nuclear weapons against Iran would be "gravely irresponsible." Their letter to President Bush was prompted by media reports that the White House had called on the Pentagon to prepare a plan for a preemptive strike on Iran's nuclear facilities, which are, unfortunately, largely underground. No problem! What are nuclear bunker-busters for? Jorge Hirsch at UCSD was behind the letter to the President. Last fall Hirsch organized a petition signed by more than 1,800 physicists that opposed any policy of preemptive nuclear strikes against non- nuclear adversaries. Iran, unfortunately, is dying to be a nuclear adversary. It's hard to tell how far they've gotten, and how much is just the old Muslim custom of shouting and waving their guns in the air. There has been no response to the physicist's letter from the White House, which is not surprising since Bush's long-time policy advisor, Karl Rove, has been sent packing. The President's plunging popularity raises concern that he might try something really dumb, whether he can pronounce it or not. 2. DEPRESSION: CORTISOL LEVELS AND THE NEWS FROM WASHINGTON. When our Pleistocene ancestors saw movement in the tall grass, their brains released stress hormones, increasing heart rate and respiration, dilating eyes to increase awareness and diverting blood from the digestive tract to arms and legs. The body was preparing to fight, or run very fast in the opposite direction. Carnivores in the tall grass are not a problem today, but there is plenty to fear. It's a lousy feeling that hits you right in your blood-deprived stomach. If anxiety persists due to war in Iraq, terrorists, bird flu, arctic melting, gas prices, or Rumsfeld, the brain switches to a long-term strategy. The hypothalamus, which controls emotion, tells the adrenal cortex to release cortisol, another stress hormone that raises blood pressure and increases blood glucose levels. New findings from Harvard Medical School links cortisol levels directly to depression for the first time. You're being manipulated by your hypothalamus. You can try to persuade your brain that there are no tigers, or take antidepressants that boost serotonin, another hormone that constricts blood vessels, countering the cortisol. 3. MEDIA: NEW WEBSITE RATES HEALTH COVERAGE OF NEWS ARTICLES. The new site http://www.HealthNewsReview.org , was created by University of Minnesota journalism professor Gary Schwitzer, who patterned it after similar efforts in Australia and Canada. A team of 20 reviewers from universities across the country will write the critiques. It is apparently limited to print news, and will not expose the outrageous commercials disguised as news that keep showing up on local television. It begins Monday. WN will check the cortisol story. THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND. Opinions are the author's and not necessarily shared by the University of Maryland, but they should be. --- Archives of What's New can be found at http://www.bobpark.org What's New is moving to a different listserver and our subscription process has changed. To change your subscription status please visit this link: http://listserv.umd.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=bobparks-whatsnew&A=1 From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 21 18:11:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3M1AwS8012207; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:10:59 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3M1AuPX012173; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:10:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:10:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 21:11:18 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: OT: Friday Smile In-reply-to: <000801c6659e$7d29fe20$333ef3c7@owner697584ba2> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67700 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At New York's Kennedy airport today, an individual later discovered to be a public school teacher was arrested trying to board a flight while in possession of a ruler, a protractor, a setsquare, a slide rule, and a calculator. At a morning press conference, Attorney general John Ashcroft said he believes the man is a member of the notorious Al-gebra movement. He is being charged by the FBI with carrying weapons of math instruction. "Al-gebra is a fearsome cult," Ashcroft said. "They desire average solutions by means and extremes, and sometimes go off on tangents in search of absolute value. They use secret code names like "x" and "y" and refer to themselves as unknowns," but we have determined they belong to a common denominator of the axis of medieval with coordinates in every country. As the Greek philanderer Isosceles used to say, there are 3 sides to every triangle," Ashcroft declared. When asked to comment on the arrest, President Bush said, "If God had wanted us to have better weapons of math instruction, He would have given us more fingers and toes." "I am gratified that our government has given us a sine that it is intent on protracting us from these math-dogs who are willing to disintegrate us with calculus disregard. Murky statisticians love to inflict plane on every sphere of influence," the President said, adding: "Under the circumferences, we must differentiate their root, make our point, and draw the line." President Bush warned, "These weapons of math instruction have the potential to decimal everything in their math on a scalene never before seen unless we become exponents of a Higher Power and begin to factor-in random facts of vertex." Attorney General Ashcroft said, "As our Great Leader would say, read my ellipse. Here is one principle he is certain of: though they continue to multiply, their days are numbered as the hypotenuse tightens around their necks." From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 21 18:26:35 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3M1QNEp017951; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:26:24 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3M1QL28017926; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:26:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:26:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00e701c665ab$c299cc30$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: Subject: Re: Friday Smile Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:26:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67701 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Huh ?... Ashcroft's back ? That ruins my day ... Guess Alberto didn't have a "protractor" to stay ;-) From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 21 19:14:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3M2DuZZ003230; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 19:13:57 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3M2DtiK003209; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 19:13:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 19:13:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2006-03-10) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.6 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Message-ID: <000c01c665b2$61897420$a4037841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: Re: Friday smile Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 21:13:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C66588.775A1DB0"; type="multipart/alternative" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: <6G1HWD.A._x.iFZSEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67702 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C66588.775A1DB0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0009_01C66588.775BA450" ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C66588.775BA450 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankOnce saw an old calculus texrbook printed around 1875.. only about = 25 pages. Turn the cover to first page to read. Calculus is made easy by those that know how to teach calculus and = difficult by those that don't. Turn next page to read.. Considering how many fools on earth can calculate, one wonder why the = subject is made so difficult. >From there the textbook reduces the terminology to basics of the art.. = Calculus is an art.. not a mathematic. Remember this was writtewn back in 1875 before we needed to launch = rocketry. Must have been a money loser for the publisher. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C66588.775BA450 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Once saw an old calculus texrbook printed around 1875.. only about = 25=20 pages. Turn the cover to first page to read.
 
Calculus is made easy by those that know how to teach calculus and=20 difficult by those that don't.
 
Turn next page to read..
 
Considering how many fools on earth can calculate, one wonder why = the=20 subject is made so difficult.
 
From there the textbook reduces the terminology to basics of the = art..=20 Calculus is an art.. not a mathematic.
 
Remember this was writtewn back in 1875 before we needed to launch=20 rocketry.
 
Must have been a money loser for the publisher.
 
Richard

 

------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C66588.775BA450-- ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C66588.775A1DB0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000701c665b2$5ff47c40$a4037841@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C66588.775A1DB0-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 21 20:06:34 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3M2vpjS019465; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 19:57:51 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3M2viB6019397; Fri, 21 Apr 2006 19:57:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 19:57:44 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 22:58:01 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: OT: Hobbes on Motion. To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67703 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: For those who find quantum mechanics "perplexing" or "troubling", it is beneficial to ponder the philosophical and historical origins of classical mechanics. (For example see the discussion of Hobbes below). The _ground_ of modern physics was chosen and cleared during this period. Eventually Newton laid the _foundation_ of modern physics on this ground. Physics progressed by building on Newton's foundation. Whenever cracks have appeared in the foundation they have been patched, without a thought given to the condition of the philosophical ground. Harry From http://www.bu.edu/wcp/Papers/Mode/ModePiet.htm I. Conatus and Motion Philosophers in the 17th century made hard efforts to explain the beginning and continuation of the motion of bodies. The notion of conatus ('striving' or 'endeavoring') was commonly used in the explanations. It refers to the power with which the motion of a body begins and is kept on. What is this power? Descartes explained it to be an active power or tendency of bodies to move, expressing the power of God. He distinguished between motion and the tendency to move, but Hobbes was anxious to argue that conatus actually is motion. In The Elements of Law he says it to be the "internal beginning of animal motion" (EL I.7.2), and in his later writings the notion of 'endeavor' refers to the beginning or first part of any kind of motion. Because motion is for Hobbes "a continual relinquishing of one place, and acquiring of another" (De Corp II.8.10), the beginning of a motion of a body must be an infinitely small change in the place of the body. Accordingly, Hobbes defines endeavor "to be motion made in less space and time than can be given; ... that is, motion made through the length of a point, and in an instant or point of time" (De Corp III.15.2). For Hobbes, the conatus is not an inherent power of a body but is determined by the motions of other bodies. However, he regards it as an active power, because "the beginning of the motion of a body must be considered as action or cause" (De Corp II.9.6). Thus endeavor is the power by which a body affects the motion of other bodies and resists their power, and, in a sense, also 'causes' the motion of the body itself, for Hobbes takes the principle of the persistence of motion to be true: "whatsoever is moved, will always be moved in the same way, and with the same swiftness, if it be not hindered by some other moved and contiguous body" (De Corp III.15.1). Thus Hobbes, like Descartes and Spinoza, takes conatus to be the active power by which a body persists in its state of motion. In brief, Hobbes accepts the following fundamental principle: (CP) The conatus-principle: A body endeavors to preserve its state and resist the causal power of other bodies. This is a true natural law for Hobbes. I want to show the importance of (CP) for Hobbes's theory of human action and political philosophy. (more at link above.) From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 22 04:40:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3MBeFGY032149; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 04:40:16 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3MBeAue032109; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 04:40:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 04:40:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=W9276313dCpOzJaO/I8PH0txcHRjgz96V/FgE1Hl6r0pEL3avk0f7N07N7CxFp8V; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064622113958569@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Energy Density and ZPE Extraction Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 05:39:58 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9408e5e82355f0400e864c986457f409c2a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.205 Resent-Message-ID: <78O3JD.A.k1H.ZYhSEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67704 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII A prime example of ZPE Extraction at High Energy Densities? "[This is academic parlance for (do I dare say it?) "over unity".]" http://pesn.com/2006/03/08/9600245_Z-Machine_2_billion_degrees/ A description of the achievement, as well as a possible explanation by Sandia consultant Malcolm Haines, well-known for his work in Z pinches at the Imperial College in London, appeared in the Feb. 24 Physical Review Letters. Texas A&M in collaboration with Lawrenceville Plasma Physics achieved a similar result in 2001 with a plasma focus device, rather than a wire z pinch as done by Sandia. They also achieved 200 keV, but with just 1.4 mega amp input in comparison to Sandia's 20 MA input. (Ref1, Ref2) What happened and why? Z’s energies in these experiments raised several questions. First, the radiated x-ray output was as much as four times the expected kinetic energy input. Ordinarily, in non-nuclear reactions, output energies are less — not greater — than the total input energies. More energy had to be getting in to balance the books, but from where could it come? Second, and more unusually, high ion temperatures were sustained after the plasma had stagnated — that is, after its ions had presumably lost motion and therefore energy and therefore heat — as though yet again some unknown agent was providing an additional energy source to the ions. [This is academic parlance for (do I dare say it?) "over unity".] Sandia’s Z machine normally works like this: 20 million amps of electricity pass through a small core of vertical tungsten wires finer than human hairs. The core is about the size of a spool of thread. The wires dissolve instantly into a cloud of charged particles called a plasma. The plasma, caught in the grip of the very strong magnetic field accompanying the electrical current, is compressed to the thickness of a pencil lead. This happens very rapidly, at a velocity that would fly a plane from New York to San Francisco in several seconds. ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
A prime example of ZPE Extraction at High Energy Densities?
 
"[This is academic parlance for (do I dare say it?) "over unity".]"
 
 

A description of the achievement, as well as a possible explanation by Sandia consultant Malcolm Haines, well-known for his work in Z pinches at the Imperial College in London, appeared in the Feb. 24 Physical Review Letters.

Texas A&M in collaboration with Lawrenceville Plasma Physics achieved a similar result in 2001 with a plasma focus device, rather than a wire z pinch as done by Sandia.  They also achieved 200 keV, but with just 1.4 mega amp input in comparison to Sandia's 20 MA input. (Ref1, Ref2)

What happened and why?

Z’s energies in these experiments raised several questions.

First, the radiated x-ray output was as much as four times the expected kinetic energy input.

Ordinarily, in non-nuclear reactions, output energies are less — not greater — than the total input energies. More energy had to be getting in to balance the books, but from where could it come?

Second, and more unusually, high ion temperatures were sustained after the plasma had stagnated — that is, after its ions had presumably lost motion and therefore energy and therefore heat — as though yet again some unknown agent was providing an additional energy source to the ions.

[This is academic parlance for (do I dare say it?) "over unity".]

Sandia’s Z machine normally works like this: 20 million amps of electricity pass through a small core of vertical tungsten wires finer than human hairs. The core is about the size of a spool of thread. The wires dissolve instantly into a cloud of charged particles called a plasma.

The plasma, caught in the grip of the very strong magnetic field accompanying the electrical current, is compressed to the thickness of a pencil lead. This happens very rapidly, at a velocity that would fly a plane from New York to San Francisco in several seconds.

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 22 05:13:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3MCCtnY011354; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 05:12:56 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3MCCsHN011339; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 05:12:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 05:12:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=O6tF80BxkwMCh5VntmqG9/TgKU+/qrflTZpG51z2oBpJdLxsQ/kewW/lGWMApU5/; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064622121227532@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Energy Density and ZPE Extraction Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 06:12:27 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940ab0813c73cd07fd8348a088422d149e4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.42 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67705 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Adding iron (same as the iron from the stainless steel in the Joe Cell ) gives strange results, doesn't it? :-) Mossbauer Effect Iron works best? Fred http://pesn.com/2006/03/18/9600251_Lawrenceville_and_Sandia_fusion_compared/ " “It’s possible that part of the difference in ion and electron energies is due to the magnetic field effect,” comments Focus Fusion Society Executive Director Eric Lerner. Lerner has pointed out the importance of the effect, which slows the transfer of energy from ions to electrons in a high magnetic field. While the fields achieved in the Z-machine are low compared with the fields achieved in the plasma focus, the value of the critical magnetic field for the effect decreases as the atomic mass of the ions increases. For iron ions with an energy of 150 keV, the critical field is 250 MG, and even for a field of 50 MG the magnetic field effect will slow ion heating of electrons by a facto of six." ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/22/2006 5:40:47 AM Subject: Re: Energy Density and ZPE Extraction A prime example of ZPE Extraction at High Energy Densities? "[This is academic parlance for (do I dare say it?) "over unity".]" http://pesn.com/2006/03/08/9600245_Z-Machine_2_billion_degrees/ A description of the achievement, as well as a possible explanation by Sandia consultant Malcolm Haines, well-known for his work in Z pinches at the Imperial College in London, appeared in the Feb. 24 Physical Review Letters. Texas A&M in collaboration with Lawrenceville Plasma Physics achieved a similar result in 2001 with a plasma focus device, rather than a wire z pinch as done by Sandia. They also achieved 200 keV, but with just 1.4 mega amp input in comparison to Sandia's 20 MA input. (Ref1, Ref2) What happened and why? Z’s energies in these experiments raised several questions. First, the radiated x-ray output was as much as four times the expected kinetic energy input. Ordinarily, in non-nuclear reactions, output energies are less — not greater — than the total input energies. More energy had to be getting in to balance the books, but from where could it come? Second, and more unusually, high ion temperatures were sustained after the plasma had stagnated — that is, after its ions had presumably lost motion and therefore energy and therefore heat — as though yet again some unknown agent was providing an additional energy source to the ions. [This is academic parlance for (do I dare say it?) "over unity".] Sandia’s Z machine normally works like this: 20 million amps of electricity pass through a small core of vertical tungsten wires finer than human hairs. The core is about the size of a spool of thread. The wires dissolve instantly into a cloud of charged particles called a plasma. The plasma, caught in the grip of the very strong magnetic field accompanying the electrical current, is compressed to the thickness of a pencil lead. This happens very rapidly, at a velocity that would fly a plane from New York to San Francisco in several seconds. ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Adding iron (same as the iron from the stainless steel in the
Joe Cell ) gives strange results, doesn't it?  :-) 
 
Mossbauer Effect Iron works best?
 
Fred
 
 
 " “It’s possible that part of the difference in ion and electron energies is due to the magnetic field effect,” comments Focus Fusion Society Executive Director Eric Lerner. Lerner has pointed out the importance of the effect, which slows the transfer of energy from ions to electrons in a high magnetic field. While the fields achieved in the Z-machine are low compared with the fields achieved in the plasma focus, the value of the critical magnetic field for the effect decreases as the atomic mass of the ions increases. For iron ions with an energy of 150 keV, the critical field is 250 MG, and even for a field of 50 MG the magnetic field effect will slow ion heating of electrons by a facto of six."
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/22/2006 5:40:47 AM
Subject: Re: Energy Density and ZPE Extraction

A prime example of ZPE Extraction at High Energy Densities?
 
"[This is academic parlance for (do I dare say it?) "over unity".]"
 
 

A description of the achievement, as well as a possible explanation by Sandia consultant Malcolm Haines, well-known for his work in Z pinches at the Imperial College in London, appeared in the Feb. 24 Physical Review Letters.

Texas A&M in collaboration with Lawrenceville Plasma Physics achieved a similar result in 2001 with a plasma focus device, rather than a wire z pinch as done by Sandia.  They also achieved 200 keV, but with just 1.4 mega amp input in comparison to Sandia's 20 MA input. (Ref1, Ref2)

What happened and why?

Z’s energies in these experiments raised several questions.

First, the radiated x-ray output was as much as four times the expected kinetic energy input.

Ordinarily, in non-nuclear reactions, output energies are less — not greater — than the total input energies. More energy had to be getting in to balance the books, but from where could it come?

Second, and more unusually, high ion temperatures were sustained after the plasma had stagnated — that is, after its ions had presumably lost motion and therefore energy and therefore heat — as though yet again some unknown agent was providing an additional energy source to the ions.

[This is academic parlance for (do I dare say it?) "over unity".]

Sandia’s Z machine normally works like this: 20 million amps of electricity pass through a small core of vertical tungsten wires finer than human hairs. The core is about the size of a spool of thread. The wires dissolve instantly into a cloud of charged particles called a plasma.

The plasma, caught in the grip of the very strong magnetic field accompanying the electrical current, is compressed to the thickness of a pencil lead. This happens very rapidly, at a velocity that would fly a plane from New York to San Francisco in several seconds.

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 22 05:25:35 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3MCPPuI016992; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 05:25:25 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3MCPNSm016972; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 05:25:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 05:25:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Uu35XqdJuu4VL8hBuGnHYue55DWoDTUup2sNYqt35C8ikQh/8lzH4JTCeCSctE2K; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006462212251941@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Energy Density and ZPE Extraction Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 06:25:19 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94084d6011eeb116fdc12b1004d758e2957350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.42 Resent-Message-ID: <-hsolD.A.IJE.yCiSEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67706 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Trouble in OZ? http://pesn.com/ http://pesn.com/2006/04/13/9600257_Bill_Williams_threatened/ Joe Cell Truck Builder Threatened, Destroys Plans After announcing that he had successfully built a truck that runs on Joe Cell technology, drawing energy from water and Orgone, Bill Williams said he was approached by two men who demanded that he stop his research, threatening him with dire consequences if he didn't. Others are keeping it alive. ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Trouble in OZ?
 
 
 

Joe Cell Truck Builder Threatened, Destroys Plans

After announcing that he had successfully built a truck that runs on Joe Cell technology, drawing energy from water and Orgone, Bill Williams said he was approached by two men who demanded that he stop his research, threatening him with dire consequences if he didn't.  Others are keeping it alive.

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 22 05:59:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3MCxa1r027341; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 05:59:37 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3MCxZWs027329; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 05:59:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 05:59:35 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2006-03-10) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.6 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Message-ID: <001901c6660c$93e86700$0100007f@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: Re: Energy Density and ZPE Extraction Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 07:58:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C665E2.8A8A6DE0"; type="multipart/alternative" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67707 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C665E2.8A8A6DE0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0016_01C665E2.8A8BF480" ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C665E2.8A8BF480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank Fred wrote.. >A prime example of ZPE Extraction at High Energy Densities? >"[This is academic parlance for (do I dare say it?) "over unity".]" Howdy Fred, The experiments are an example of the lack of understanding of what = science describes as " electricity". We have been strapped for years = with the foolish misunderstanding of " current" and " amperage". These = two words must be cast in the trashbin of psuedo-science and someone = finally step forward and simply ask the question.. what is electricity = and magetism? We don't know!! . Sandia and A&M can search for Easter eggs under every "Bush" of = research money but at the end of the day wind up with a basket of = brightly colored straw ("scientic papers") but nothing else.=20 Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C665E2.8A8BF480 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
 
Fred wrote..
 
>A prime example of ZPE Extraction at High Energy = Densities?
 
>"[This is academic parlance for (do I dare say it?) "over=20 unity".]"

Howdy Fred,

The experiments are an example of the lack of understanding of what = science=20 describes as " electricity". We have been strapped for years with the = foolish=20 misunderstanding of " current" and " amperage". These two words must be = cast in=20 the trashbin of psuedo-science and someone finally step forward and = simply ask=20 the question.. what is electricity and magetism?

We don't know!!

. Sandia and A&M can search for Easter eggs under every "Bush" of = research money but at the end of the day wind up with a =  basket=20 of  brightly colored straw ("scientic papers") but nothing = else.

Richard

------=_NextPart_001_0016_01C665E2.8A8BF480-- ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C665E2.8A8A6DE0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <001401c6660c$734af210$0100007f@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C665E2.8A8A6DE0-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 22 06:24:37 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3MDOQkS005339; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 06:24:27 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3MDOOLX005311; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 06:24:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 06:24:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=ACEK2m2anwJjCColwpPkjdwMWaXKW34eyGJzu3M88Gywup/dhq1HoEUvYaLMOiVr; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <411-220064622132416136@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Energy Density and ZPE Extraction Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 07:24:16 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94098cbf54bbbf52d0bfc50d174876f8bb2350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.123 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67708 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII ----- Original Message ----- From: RC Macaulay To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 4/22/2006 7:00:05 AM Subject: Re: Energy Density and ZPE Extraction Fred wrote.. >A prime example of ZPE Extraction at High Energy Densities? >"[This is academic parlance for (do I dare say it?) "over unity".]" Howdy Fred, The experiments are an example of the lack of understanding of what science describes as " electricity". We have been strapped for years with the foolish misunderstanding of " current" and " amperage". These two words must be cast in the trashbin of psuedo-science and someone finally step forward and simply ask the question.. what is electricity and magetism? We don't know!! . Sandia and A&M can search for Easter eggs under every "Bush" of research money but at the end of the day wind up with a basket of brightly colored straw ("scientic papers") but nothing else. .................................................................................................... This is as Close to the answer as you can get, Richard. Dyatov's Polarized Vacuum: http://www.americanantigravity.com/articles/526/1/Polarization-Model-of-the-Inhomogeneous-Physical-Vacuum Davis and Puthoff's Polarized Vacuum: http://www.earthtech.org/publications/davis_STAIF_conference_1.pdf "We are presently unaware of any way to artificially generate gravitational squeezing of the vacuum in the laboratory. This will be left for future investigation." " Suffice it to say that ultrahigh-intensity tabletop lasers have been used to generate extreme electric and magnetic field strengths in the lab." Richard ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Blank
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/22/2006 7:00:05 AM
Subject: Re: Energy Density and ZPE Extraction

 
Fred wrote..
 
>A prime example of ZPE Extraction at High Energy Densities?
 
>"[This is academic parlance for (do I dare say it?) "over unity".]"

Howdy Fred,

The experiments are an example of the lack of understanding of what science describes as " electricity". We have been strapped for years with the foolish misunderstanding of " current" and " amperage". These two words must be cast in the trashbin of psuedo-science and someone finally step forward and simply ask the question.. what is electricity and magetism?

We don't know!!

. Sandia and A&M can search for Easter eggs under every "Bush" of research money but at the end of the day wind up with a  basket of  brightly colored straw ("scientic papers") but nothing else.

....................................................................................................

This is as Close to the answer as you can get, Richard.

Dyatov's Polarized Vacuum:
 
 
Davis and Puthoff's Polarized Vacuum:
 
 

"We are presently unaware of any way to artificially generate gravitational squeezing of the vacuum in the

laboratory. This will be left for future investigation."

" Suffice it to say that ultrahigh-intensity tabletop lasers have been used to generate

extreme electric and magnetic field strengths in the lab." 

Richard

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- ------=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: Blank Bkgrd.gif Content-Id: <410-220064622132486661@13071999> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 22 06:55:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3MDsvEn014775; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 06:54:57 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3MDsuRQ014760; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 06:54:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 06:54:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=GQDW5Pmd2cxttilcwIjDaaT3EniAMyMoXEXjjkyZtZQgTfX/4JiJy3VfsTqae/sP; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064622135447680@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Energy Density and ZPE Extraction Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 07:54:47 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9407974f5cd5e942b89efafcf29b3e1791b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.48 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67709 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII BTW. Richard. In the early 80s we were working with a machinist in Ohio that built wire forming equipment to see if he could build machinery (NC) for high speed formation of our patented structural panel. During our coffee-break session when the subject of energy independence came up he told us the tale of some acquaintances that had built a device (as I know now from what he described) very similar to the Joe Cell. Their phones were tapped and threatening phone calls were received. Anyhow they contacted the Feds, and Senator Ed Muskie held hearings with some Detroit auto-makers present, and the Detroit faction agreed to run tests on the vehicle equipped with the device, "if they bring it over". On the way to Detroit on the Interstate east of Toledo they stopped for coffee and doughnuts. While they were inside, their car in the parking lot "exploded". They said, "to hell with it", and headed home. Wouldn't you? :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
BTW. Richard.
 
In the early 80s we were working with a machinist in Ohio that built wire forming
equipment  to see if he could build machinery (NC) for high speed formation
of our patented structural panel.
During our coffee-break session when the subject of energy independence
came up he told us the tale of some acquaintances that had built a device
(as I know now from what he described) very similar to the Joe Cell.
 
Their phones were tapped and threatening phone calls were received.
 
Anyhow they contacted the Feds, and Senator Ed Muskie held hearings
with some Detroit auto-makers present, and the Detroit faction agreed to
run tests on the vehicle equipped with the device, "if they bring it over".
On the way to Detroit on the Interstate east of Toledo they stopped
for coffee and doughnuts. While they were inside, their car in the parking lot
"exploded".
They said, "to hell with it", and headed home.  
 
Wouldn't you?   :-) 
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 22 07:33:50 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3MEXbkM027080; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 07:33:38 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3MEXaSo027075; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 07:33:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 07:33:36 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <002201c66619$bb648360$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" References: <410-220064622135447680@earthlink.net> Subject: A blast in Ohio Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 07:33:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67710 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Fred, Given that this incident occurred over twenty years ago, and given that the information could be very important to others, especially now with the renewed interest in alternatives - and the US having passed the Peak Oil tipping point, can you provide more critical details? If the name of the Ohio company and the inventors are disclosed, then there is probably someone on vortex in the vicinity of Toledo might be willing to track down the further particulars - even if the inventors have passed away. There would be records in the archives of local newspapers for any type of explosion like this. Even if not on the internet - it would be in microfilm. Personally, I do not believe in this kind of conspiracy thing coming from our government, because ... for one thing, if they are too slow and stupid to allow known terrorists to learn to fly commercial aircraft (with expired visas) then they certainly are not keeping tabs on fringe inventors (although some times my phone line sounds like a Gene Kelly rehearsal). If there was this kind of intimidation happening back then and focused on alternative energy - and where explosives were used - it would have to come from perhaps organized crime being hired by either a foreign government or by the oil Cartels - which is not impossible. Any US oil company would be far better off owning the patent rights in a free market, especially considering the low prices for oil then. And if the inventors were not offered big bucks following being "softened up" - this is not an internal US incident. This kind of coercion - especially if coming from the Oil Cartel - is certainly worthy of investigative journalism, and one suspects that Sterling Allan would be among the interested parties, since he has taken such a shine to the Joe_Cell angle. I know that you are normally a moderately skeptical scientist, not Reichian, nor no cultist - but you will have to admit that many of the people espousing the Joe_Cell are fans of Reich and have little scientific background (which is probably to be expected). Jones ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber In the early 80s we were working with a machinist in Ohio that built wire forming equipment to see if he could build machinery (NC) for high speed formation of our patented structural panel. During our coffee-break session when the subject of energy independence came up he told us the tale of some acquaintances that had built a device (as I know now from what he described) very similar to the Joe Cell. Their phones were tapped and threatening phone calls were received. Anyhow they contacted the Feds, and Senator Ed Muskie held hearings with some Detroit auto-makers present, and the Detroit faction agreed to run tests on the vehicle equipped with the device, "if they bring it over". On the way to Detroit on the Interstate east of Toledo they stopped for coffee and doughnuts. While they were inside, their car in the parking lot "exploded". They said, "to hell with it", and headed home. Wouldn't you? :-) Fred From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 22 07:55:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3MEtZIX001824; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 07:55:35 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3MEtXvH001806; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 07:55:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 07:55:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=W8mXDHDUFThm4bF8Vd/k/LNpEH4/DaRGspj+ZkNz3Ft0jkQavpXp4nPvZ0hf7ggd; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064622145522775@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: A blast in Ohio Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 08:55:22 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94025b31e2a3ba9c29300bf342a9b7f9ce9350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.138 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67711 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones Beene wrote: > > Fred, > > Given that this incident occurred over twenty years ago, and given > that the information could be very important to others, especially > now with the renewed interest in alternatives - and the US having > passed the Peak Oil tipping point, can you provide more critical > details? > > If the name of the Ohio company and the inventors are disclosed, > then there is probably someone on vortex in the vicinity of Toledo > might be willing to track down the further particulars - even if > the inventors have passed away. There would be records in the > archives of local newspapers for any type of explosion like this. > Even if not on the internet - it would be in microfilm. > > Personally, I do not believe in this kind of conspiracy thing > coming from our government, because ... for one thing, if they are > too slow and stupid to allow known terrorists to learn to fly > commercial aircraft (with expired visas) then they certainly are > not keeping tabs on fringe inventors (although some times my phone > line sounds like a Gene Kelly rehearsal). > I don't want to get involved in a wicked witch hunt, Jones. My impression was/is that it was a Detroit "conspiracy". The Congressional Record might reveal that the Ed Muskie hearings actually took place. "Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you". :-) Fred From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 22 08:23:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3MFNUUH014728; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 08:23:30 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3MFNROh014702; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 08:23:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 08:23:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=JlF9g9yXLzCYu7976EQxnDFIogdy+DuJTFn0eoAq48NhuqMvPLEGROVWJh15n6Sy; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064622152316912@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Energy Density and ZPE Extraction Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 09:23:16 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940a57a7535047677458e66bb4ac993b1b5350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.138 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67712 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII With respect to the Metal-Electrolyte Interface in electrolysis cells. 6.0 millivolts potential across ~2.0e-9 meters Helmholtz Layer is 3.0 million volts/meter but the energy density at 0.5 microfarads per square meter capacitance W = 1/2 CV^2 = 9.0e-6 joules/2.0e-9 meters = 4,500 joules per cubic meter. Enough to make the Joe Cell as interesting as Pons & Fleischmann's "exploding CF Cell that blew a hole in the concrete floor". Fred. http://www.chemistry.nmsu.edu/studntres/chem435/Lab14/double_layer.html "The double layer is formed in order to neutralize the charged surface and, in turn, causes an electrokinetic potential between the surface and any point in the mass of the suspending liquid. This voltage difference is on the order of millivolts and is referred to as the surface potential. The magnitude of the surface potential is related to the surface charge and the thickness of the double layer. As we leave the surface, the potential drops off roughly linearly in the Stern layer and then exponentially through the diffuse layer, approaching zero at the imaginary boundary of the double layer" http://scienceweek.com/2004/sc040806-2.htm Surface Plasmons (SPs): "2) SPs were widely recognized in the field of surface science following the pioneering work of Ritchie in the 1950s (1). SPs are waves that propagate along the surface of a conductor, usually a metal, and are essentially light waves that are trapped on the surface because of their interaction with the free electrons of the conductor (strictly speaking, they should be called surface plasmon polaritons to reflect this hybrid nature(2)). In this interaction, the free electrons respond collectively by oscillating in resonance with the light wave. The resonant interaction between the surface charge oscillation and the electromagnetic field of the light constitutes the SP and gives rise to its unique properties." ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
With respect to the Metal-Electrolyte Interface in electrolysis cells.
 
6.0 millivolts potential across ~2.0e-9 meters Helmholtz Layer is 3.0 million volts/meter
but the energy density at 0.5 microfarads per square meter capacitance
W = 1/2 CV^2 =  9.0e-6 joules/2.0e-9 meters =  4,500 joules per cubic meter.
 
Enough to make the Joe Cell as interesting as Pons & Fleischmann's
"exploding CF Cell that blew a hole in the concrete floor".
 
Fred.
 
 
 
"The double layer is formed in order to neutralize the charged surface and, in turn, causes an electrokinetic potential between the surface and any point in the mass of the suspending liquid. This voltage difference is on the order of millivolts and is referred to as the surface potential. The magnitude of the surface potential is related to the surface charge and the thickness of the double layer. As we leave the surface, the potential drops off roughly linearly in the Stern layer and then exponentially through the diffuse layer, approaching zero at the imaginary boundary of the double layer"
 
 
Surface Plasmons (SPs):
 
"2) SPs were widely recognized in the field of surface science following the pioneering work of Ritchie in the 1950s (1). SPs are waves that propagate along the surface of a conductor, usually a metal, and are essentially light waves that are trapped on the surface because of their interaction with the free electrons of the conductor (strictly speaking, they should be called surface plasmon polaritons to reflect this hybrid nature(2)). In this interaction, the free electrons respond collectively by oscillating in resonance with the light wave. The resonant interaction between the surface charge oscillation and the electromagnetic field of the light constitutes the SP and gives rise to its unique properties."
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 22 08:56:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3MFuB4f031491; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 08:56:11 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3MFu1ln031428; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 08:56:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 08:56:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <003701c66625$3db25bc0$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex-l" References: <410-220064622152316912@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Energy Density and ZPE Extraction Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 08:55:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0034_01C665EA.90E83ED0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67713 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C665EA.90E83ED0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BTW there I've spent the last two hours playing the more than a dozen = Joe_Cell videos clipettes: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3D3839365001372302522&q=3Djoe+cel= l&pl=3Dtrue This takes a lot of bandwitdth... and hurry as its sure to get = overloaded. Yes. They have lips of ICEs running on "just" water (for a few minutes) = and many other amazing things. However, it begs for some semblance of = real testing.=20 The best part is... since the Google video is still in beta - with a = little perserverance, you can get to all kinds of cool stuff - like a = trailer for DVC with Tom Hanks... bet Terry hasn't even seen this yet. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3D-3042129287648980230&pl=3Dtrue ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C665EA.90E83ED0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
BTW there I've spent the last two hours = playing the=20 more than a dozen Joe_Cell videos clipettes:
 
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3D38= 39365001372302522&q=3Djoe+cell&pl=3Dtrue
 
This takes a lot of bandwitdth... and = hurry as its=20 sure to get overloaded.
 
Yes. They have lips of ICEs running on = "just" water=20 (for a few minutes) and many other amazing things. However, it begs for = some=20 semblance of real testing.
 
The best part is... since the Google = video is still=20 in beta - with a little perserverance, you can get to all kinds of cool = stuff -=20 like a trailer for DVC with Tom Hanks... bet Terry hasn't even seen this = yet.
 
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3D-30421292876489802= 30&pl=3Dtrue
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C665EA.90E83ED0-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 22 09:25:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3MGP23t008636; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 09:25:02 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3MGP1Rk008626; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 09:25:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 09:25:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 12:25:02 -0400 Message-Id: <8C834407144BCFC-13B0-CBFA@mblkn-m03.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <410-220064622152316912@earthlink.net> <003701c66625$3db25bc0$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <003701c66625$3db25bc0$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Energy Density and ZPE Extraction Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.67 X-Spam-Flag: YES Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3MGOxOr008595 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67714 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene ... bet Terry hasn't even seen this yet. <><><><><><> Don't bet much: http://www.sonypictures.com/movies/thedavincicode/ Join the quest: http://flash.sonypictures.com/movies/davincicodequest/ I solved the one on the book web site in 45 minutes without a copy of the book in front of me. ;-) - Sir Teabing (an anagram)   ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 22 15:14:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3MMEl9M029104; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 15:14:47 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3MMEeKv029052; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 15:14:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 15:14:40 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A blast in Ohio Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 08:14:36 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <410-220064622135447680@earthlink.net> <002201c66619$bb648360$6401a8c0@NuDell> In-Reply-To: <002201c66619$bb648360$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta04sl.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.54.241] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sat, 22 Apr 2006 22:14:36 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3MMEaa4029021 Resent-Message-ID: <0sSbaD.A.3FH.PrqSEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67715 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Jones Beene's message of Sat, 22 Apr 2006 07:33:32 -0700: Hi, [snip] >I know that you are normally a moderately skeptical scientist, not >Reichian, nor no cultist - but you will have to admit that many of >the people espousing the Joe_Cell are fans of Reich and have >little scientific background (which is probably to be expected). [snip] If you consider the properties of severely shrunken hydrinos, you will see that they have much in common with "orgone", including coming from the sun, being "conducted" by various solids, and possibly "turning radioactive" if "kept" too long. It's just possible that Reich actually discovered hydrinos in the environment, but didn't realize what he had. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 22 16:05:37 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3MN5QjL012435; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 16:05:26 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3MN5Php012424; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 16:05:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 16:05:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <006601c66661$3b85c080$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <410-220064622135447680@earthlink.net> <002201c66619$bb648360$6401a8c0@NuDell> Subject: Re: A blast in Ohio Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 16:05:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67716 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin, > If you consider the properties of severely shrunken hydrinos, > you > will see that they have much in common with "orgone", including > coming from the sun, being "conducted" by various solids, and > possibly "turning radioactive" if "kept" too long. Yes, but the fly in the ointment is that the cell reportedly turns cold during operation... If one can suspend disbelief long enough - that problem can be rationalized by saying they [hydrini] are created in the "charging" process and not in the cell itself - and instead cool the cell when they are rejected by the much lower current there and by vacuum from the intake. This actually fits into my belief about the thermodynamics of hydrino formation. I have always felt that making then is endothermic and the excess energy comes only when they are re-expanded back to ground state - and only then do they take that energy from ZPE. I am in a distinct minority on that - as Mills poo-poohs ZPE but nothing he has done in the Lab cannot be explained as well or better by ZPE than by his own theory. Anyway as to the hydrino at higher energies, I posted some of the following to the HSG group but it never seemed to show up. The more I think about it - the more this seems like the best evidence in all of the literature for hydrini - unless I am misinterpreting it: http://www.energystorm.us/_time_Resolved_Plasma_Spectroscopy_Of_Imploded_Gas_filled_Microballoons_The_Next_Generation_Final_Technical_Report_17_April_1995_30_September_1997-r128251.html yes.. it involves a hot-dense plasma rather than a warm-thin plasma (typical of Mills) but it is actually very similar in density and energy to a layer in the Sun's corona where flares originate. There are curious details - and there are a number of these laser implosion papers in the online literature by researchers where deuterium and other gases are irradiated with lasers, presumably for purposes of obtaining data for ICF/Nova etc. Many of them result in a hot dense plasma with an average mass/energy of ~ 1keV per ion but with a massive bump in the spectra. That "bump" is the problem as I see it. Two possible hydino inferences come from it. The plasmas, in general, are much hotter with some argon (few percent) instead of all D2 or D2 and other gases. And Lo and behold: Recently Argon has turned up in solar flares - huge spike: http://www.cbk.pan.wroc.pl/publications/2002/Praga_paper_htm.htm Ar is claimed to be a strong hydrino catalyst, of course, and spectrograph show pronounced peaks at what would be near the maximum shrinkage level n=135. 27.2*135 = 3672 eV. This is attributed by the authors of the first paper to the K-shell of Ar - as naturally it seems to fit there - but given the steepness of this spectral region from the implosions, one wonders *why* the k-shell was preferentially effected... unless it has something to do with being an energy "hole" for the hydrino. Perhaps protons actually "take" of steal a k-shell electron from Ar instead of it being ionized in the conventional way to form a hole that steals monatomic hydrogen. This may only happen at the extremes in energy - all the way to the k-shell - which even these flares are not hot enough to do without some help !! ...ERGO one can propose that the Mills' modality may fit into the overall situation as a strong alternative to the conventional explanation, given the steepness of the peaks. If it were "just" the Argon k-shell being ionized then why the pronounced peak? Since the average energy of the plasma is only about 1/4 of the energy of these peaks - doesn't this beg the question of why the more tightly bound k-shell is ionized preferentially? Obviously these researchers never heard of Mills or the hydrino, so they assigned this energy level to what they knew best. Is there more to the story ....? Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 22 16:48:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3MNmRm6024123; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 16:48:27 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3MNmPrj024108; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 16:48:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 16:48:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=E0L3XN31AziatXT7XSx/keMhauI7bgcurSRCZWHpbEX8BUYpJuTW++LMo/iAmKIr; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064622234814478@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A blast in Ohio Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 17:48:14 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94006c0f35548c5a9ddf6980472903b3d36350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.234 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67717 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones Beene writes. > > Robin, > > > If you consider the properties of severely shrunken Hydrinos, > > you > > will see that they have much in common with "forgone", including > > coming from the sun, being "conducted" by various solids, and > > possibly "turning radioactive" if "kept" too long. > > Yes, but the fly in the ointment is that the cell reportedly turns > cold during operation... > Naturally. Pull a soft vacuum on water and watch it cool. > > If one can suspend disbelief long enough - that problem can be > rationalized by saying they [hydrino] are created in the > "charging" process and not in the cell itself - and instead cool > the cell when they are rejected by the much lower current there > and by vacuum from the intake. > Almost there, Jones,without any ZPE Red Herrings :-) The so-called"orgone conditioning process" rids the cell of as many ions as possible except H3O+ and OH- then the high E field probably over a million volts/meter created by an H3O+ approaching the cathode accelerates an electron into it releasing an activated "pre-hydrino" that is swept into the cylinder where the compression pressure, temperature, and spark ignition, and possibly Argon "catalyst" finishes the hydrino formation releasing orders of magnitude more energy than the ~ 60,000 BTU/lb from burning H2. Hence the erroneous claim that "it doesn't use the water catalyst". > > This actually fits into my belief about the thermodynamics of > hydrino formation. I have always felt that making then is > endothermic and the excess energy comes only when they are > re-expanded back to ground state - and only then do they take that > energy from ZPE. I am in a distinct minority on that - as Mills > poo-poohs ZPE but nothing he has done in the Lab cannot be > explained as well or better by ZPE than by his own theory. > I doubt that ZPE pumping will be seen below megajoules per cubic meter energy densities. > Snip for brevity. > Fred > > Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 22 17:22:41 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3N0MWE2000392; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 17:22:32 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3N0MUp9000373; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 17:22:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 17:22:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A blast in Ohio Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 10:22:27 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <7qel42l1euk3v3ej67plhta29si9t1n2b6@4ax.com> References: <410-220064622135447680@earthlink.net> <002201c66619$bb648360$6401a8c0@NuDell> <006601c66661$3b85c080$6401a8c0@NuDell> In-Reply-To: <006601c66661$3b85c080$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta03sl.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.54.241] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sun, 23 Apr 2006 00:22:26 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3N0MSbY000356 Resent-Message-ID: <7bRVh.A.vF.GjsSEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67718 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Jones Beene's message of Sat, 22 Apr 2006 16:05:21 -0700: Hi, [snip] >Robin, > >> If you consider the properties of severely shrunken hydrinos, >> you >> will see that they have much in common with "orgone", including >> coming from the sun, being "conducted" by various solids, and >> possibly "turning radioactive" if "kept" too long. > >Yes, but the fly in the ointment is that the cell reportedly turns >cold during operation... I wonder if it really "turns cold", or just doesn't get hot? If the energy released in the cell were only a tiny fraction of the energy released in the engine, as might be the case if e.g. fusion with Nitrogen were taking place, then the tiny quantity of hydrinos required might not be enough to heat the cell noticeably. e.g. Hy + N14 -> O15 + 7.3 MeV. In getting to shrinkage level 25, the hydrino would release (25^2) x 13.6 eV ~= 8500 eV. 8500/7,300,000 ~= 0.1% so 100 hp of thermal energy in the engine would mean 86 W of thermal power in the cell. Given the amount of water present and the size of the cell, evaporation in the cell and condensation in the connector leading to the carburetor may keep it cool, with air flow through the carburetor cooling the condensate, and carrying the excess heat through into the engine where it wouldn't be noticed anyway. As to the engine itself running cool, perhaps most of the pressure comes from the increase in the number of particles present in the engine, due to ionization, rather than due to heat. If the resultant plasma is blown out the exhaust, then the heat may only show up either there, or in the atmosphere behind the vehicle, depending on how long it takes the plasma to recombine. (How's that for hand waving? ;) BTW I hope that the Nitrogen reaction isn't taking place, because O15 is radioactive with a half life of about 2 minutes, so the exhaust would be radioactive, and dangerous to anyone breathing it. This would be especially true if use were widespread. Definitely something to check. > >If one can suspend disbelief long enough - that problem can be >rationalized by saying they [hydrini] are created in the >"charging" process and not in the cell itself - and instead cool >the cell when they are rejected by the much lower current there >and by vacuum from the intake. > >This actually fits into my belief about the thermodynamics of >hydrino formation. I have always felt that making then is >endothermic and the excess energy comes only when they are >re-expanded back to ground state - and only then do they take that >energy from ZPE. I am in a distinct minority on that - as Mills >poo-poohs ZPE but nothing he has done in the Lab cannot be >explained as well or better by ZPE than by his own theory. > >Anyway as to the hydrino at higher energies, I posted some of the >following to the HSG group but it never seemed to show up. The >more I think about it - the more this seems like the best evidence >in all of the literature for hydrini - unless I am misinterpreting >it: >http://www.energystorm.us/_time_Resolved_Plasma_Spectroscopy_Of_Imploded_Gas_filled_Microballoons_The_Next_Generation_Final_Technical_Report_17_April_1995_30_September_1997-r128251.html I agree, and specifically avoided pointing it out to Sandia labs because they use the knowledge for bomb development. >yes.. it involves a hot-dense plasma rather than a warm-thin >plasma (typical of Mills) but it is actually very similar in >density and energy to a layer in the Sun's corona where flares >originate. ...and the energy is about right too. > >There are curious details - and there are a number of these >laser implosion papers in the online literature by researchers >where deuterium and other gases are irradiated with lasers, >presumably for purposes of obtaining data for ICF/Nova etc. Many >of them result in a hot dense plasma with an average mass/energy >of ~ 1keV per ion but with a massive bump in the spectra. If you look at my web page, you will see that the maximum energy released by any given shrinkage with a Mills catalyst with m=1 (Argon or D itself) is about 1 keV. > >That "bump" is the problem as I see it. Two possible hydino >inferences come from it. > >The plasmas, in general, are much hotter with some argon (few >percent) instead of all D2 or D2 and other gases. And Lo and >behold: Recently Argon has turned up in solar flares - huge spike: >http://www.cbk.pan.wroc.pl/publications/2002/Praga_paper_htm.htm > >Ar is claimed to be a strong hydrino catalyst, of course, and >spectrograph show pronounced peaks at what would be near the >maximum shrinkage level n=135. >27.2*135 = 3672 eV. The correct calculation is (135^2 x 13.598) - 13.598, for the total energy release starting from H and ending up at n=1/135. i.e. 247800 eV, not 3672 eV. A peak at 3672 would equate to a shrinkage level of 16.43 (16-17), which just happens to be the level at which hydrinohydride formation enthalpy is at a maximum. (I.e. due to formation of the hydride, the hydrinos are removed from the process?). > >This is attributed by the authors of the first paper to the >K-shell of Ar - as naturally it seems to fit there - but given the >steepness of this >spectral region from the implosions, one wonders *why* the k-shell >was preferentially effected... unless it has something to do with >being an energy "hole" for the hydrino. I think it's just a coincidence. >Obviously these researchers never heard of Mills or the hydrino, >so they assigned this energy level to what they knew best. Is >there more to the story ....? Note that they have been experimenting with this for 20 years, i.e. since 1986 when Mills first published his theory. I doubt it's a coincidence. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 22 17:23:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3N0Nkwf000865; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 17:23:46 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3N0Njch000849; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 17:23:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 17:23:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A blast in Ohio Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 10:23:38 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <410-220064622234814478@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <410-220064622234814478@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta02sl.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.54.241] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sun, 23 Apr 2006 00:23:38 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3N0Nc4V000814 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67719 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Frederick Sparber's message of Sat, 22 Apr 2006 17:48:14 -0600: Hi, [snip] >Jones Beene writes. >> >> Robin, >> >> > If you consider the properties of severely shrunken Hydrinos, >> > you >> > will see that they have much in common with "forgone", including >> > coming from the sun, being "conducted" by various solids, and >> > possibly "turning radioactive" if "kept" too long. >> >> Yes, but the fly in the ointment is that the cell reportedly turns >> cold during operation... >> >Naturally. Pull a soft vacuum on water and watch it cool. I see Fred beat me to it! :) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 22 18:39:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3N1cx9h025006; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 18:38:59 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3N1cr1H024972; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 18:38:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 18:38:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=CugwswJFBSB1L5+CdnETRuCORbR5rjp2PSTCtrxCkyqTjMQaZsCU7KdUOgKQyVIA; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200640231383958@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A blast in Ohio Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 19:38:39 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94095f845df17b8aa8418e0154ef41281f6350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.120.20 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67720 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > In reply to Frederick Sparber's message of Sat, 22 Apr 2006 > 17:48:14 -0600: > Hi, > [snip] > >Jones Beene writes. > >> > >> Robin, > >> > >> > If you consider the properties of severely shrunken Hydrinos, > >> > you > >> > will see that they have much in common with "forgone", > I think sloppy spell checking changed orgone to "forgone". Has a nice ring to it. :-) > > >> > >> Yes, but the fly in the ointment is that the cell reportedly turns > >> cold during operation... > >> > >Naturally. Pull a soft vacuum on water and watch it cool. > > I see Fred beat me to it! :) > Good. Another point to consider is H3O+ + e- ----> (H3O*) a "Pre-Hydrino" Species. Remember, a gram of H2O evaporated at sub-atmospheric pressure occupies more than 2 liters, which could isolate the (H3O*) until it can react to form the hydrino in the combustion chamber, concurrently (endothermally) disrupting it's H2O carrier portion setting off more reaction pathways. > Fred > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ > > Competition provides the motivation, > Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 22 19:14:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3N2EitC005474; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 19:14:44 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3N2EhCP005459; Sat, 22 Apr 2006 19:14:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 19:14:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2006-03-10) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.6 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Message-ID: <001401c6667b$a47b1c60$0100007f@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: Re: A blast in Ohio Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 21:13:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C66651.A00516B0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67721 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C66651.A00516B0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0011_01C66651.A0069D50" ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C66651.A0069D50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankJones wrote.. >If it were "just"=20 the Argon k-shell being ionized then why the pronounced peak?=20 Since the average energy of the plasma is only about 1/4 of the=20 energy of these peaks - doesn't this beg the question of why the=20 more tightly bound k-shell is ionized preferentially? Obviously these researchers never heard of Mills or the hydrino, so they assigned this energy level to what they knew best. Is there more to the story ....? Howdy Jones.. you make my head hurt thinking about this. Now expand on = it. elaborate on your thoughts about what else could cause the = pronounced peak. Why do I ask.. well , I have been studying a rather obscure account of = troubled waters mentioned in the bible and wondered why such an event = would be described in literature.. surely there are much more important = things.. or is the account of the angel troubling the waters prior to a = person going into the pool for healing extremely significant.???. hmm.. = in our water vortex studies we have been looking at certain rather far = out claims being made by people regarding "ormus state water".. wierd = stuff ...or maybe not.. supposedly generated in vortexes. What is the = connection.. again the strange properties of vortexes.. like in a solar = flare..hmmm. Often in our work, we must remember most of what is taking = place in the water vortex tests are unseem in the water unless we inject = air to see water in motion. You mentioned solar flares... consider = their shapes. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C66651.A0069D50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Jones wrote..
 
>If it  were "just"
the Argon k-shell being ionized = then why=20 the pronounced peak?
Since the average energy of the plasma is only = about=20 1/4 of the
energy of these peaks - doesn't this beg the  = question of=20 why the
more tightly bound k-shell is ionized =20 preferentially?

Obviously these researchers never heard of Mills = or the=20 hydrino,
so they assigned this energy level to what they knew best.=20 Is
there more to the story ....?
 
Howdy Jones.. you make my head hurt thinking about this. Now expand = on it.=20 elaborate on your thoughts about what else could cause the pronounced=20 peak.
Why do I ask.. well , I have been studying a rather obscure account = of=20 troubled waters mentioned in the bible and wondered why such an event = would be=20 described in literature.. surely there are much more important things.. = or is=20 the account of the angel troubling the waters prior to a person going = into the=20 pool for healing  extremely significant.???. hmm.. in our water = vortex=20 studies we have been looking at certain rather far out claims being made = by=20 people regarding "ormus state water".. wierd stuff ...or maybe not.. = supposedly=20 generated in vortexes. What is the connection.. again the strange = properties of=20 vortexes.. like in a solar flare..hmmm. Often in our work, we must = remember most=20 of what is taking place in the water vortex tests are unseem in the = water unless=20 we inject air to see water in motion. You  mentioned solar = flares...=20 consider their shapes.
 
Richard

 

------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C66651.A0069D50-- ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C66651.A00516B0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000f01c6667b$88a122f0$0100007f@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C66651.A00516B0-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 23 03:01:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3NA1jsQ012799; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 03:01:45 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3NA1h4I012780; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 03:01:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 03:01:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=QJJezN/Cf+/T9oslPk7e2Fer77x7G7ztf8gyqC2riZR9uC27EMvoDkcvuFjlVtRW; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006402310128554@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: EONIUM-HERE (H3O*) Powered Engines Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 04:01:28 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94023aa1d0111ce12f5341e07adb197936a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.93 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67722 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Eonium, (H3O*) is a neutralized hydronium ion, a High- Energy-Releasing Entity (HERE) formed at the Metal-H2O (Helmholtz Layer) Interface from the Natural Free Energy Auto-Ionization of water into H3O+ and OH- ions. It has been around for Eons, and can form at any surface that can donate an electron to neutralize the H3O+ ion H2O- n(H3O*) drawn from an Eonium Cell for a 4.0 liter 4 cycle engine with a Venturi effect (Air - H2O or H3O*) mixing ratio of 2:1 at 2400 RPM/4 equal about 5 liters of H2O-n(H3O*) ~ 1/12 gram per second or 300 grams 3/4 lb (as H2O) per hour. A gram of H2O evaporated at 15 torr (~ 0.6 inches Hg at 65 F) occupies ~ 62 liters volume. The "Eonium" generation takes place at the Helmholtz layer at the Metal-H2O interface, hence the battery voltage/energy serves more as a "biasing" function than a power-consuming electrolysis source. The Metal-H2O interface surface area per cylinder/displacement requirement is crucial for adequate H2O-H3O* production, but the load/demand control without a "throttle" might be sporadic.. You can hear more about Eonium-Here here. :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Eonium, (H3O*) is a neutralized hydronium ion, a High-
Energy-Releasing Entity  (HERE) formed at the Metal-H2O (Helmholtz Layer) Interface
from the Natural Free Energy Auto-Ionization of water into H3O+ and OH- ions.
It has been around for Eons, and can form at any surface that can donate
an electron to neutralize the H3O+ ion
H2O- n(H3O*) drawn from an Eonium Cell for a 4.0 liter  4 cycle engine
with a Venturi effect  (Air - H2O or H3O*) mixing ratio of 2:1 at 2400 RPM/4
equal about 5 liters of H2O-n(H3O*)  ~ 1/12 gram per second or 300 grams
3/4 lb (as H2O) per hour.
A gram of H2O  evaporated at 15 torr (~ 0.6  inches Hg at 65 F) occupies
~ 62 liters volume.
The "Eonium" generation takes place at the Helmholtz layer at the Metal-H2O interface,
hence the battery voltage/energy serves more as  a "biasing" function than a
power-consuming electrolysis source.
The Metal-H2O interface surface area per cylinder/displacement
requirement is crucial for adequate H2O-H3O* production, but the load/demand
control  without a "throttle"  might  be sporadic..
 
You can hear more about Eonium-Here here.   :-)
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 23 03:30:43 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3NAUQ28021382; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 03:30:26 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3NAULEl021348; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 03:30:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 03:30:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <011e01c666c0$e6e74cf0$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-22006402310128554@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: EONIUM-HERE (H3O*) Powered Engines Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 12:30:11 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: <5Kkl8D.A.eNF.7c1SEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67723 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Fred, Enthalpy being a state variable, if it releases high energy when consumed I imagine it absorbs high energy when formed? Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 12:01 PM Subject: Re: EONIUM-HERE (H3O*) Powered Engines > Eonium, (H3O*) is a neutralized hydronium ion, a High- > Energy-Releasing Entity (HERE) formed at the Metal-H2O (Helmholtz Layer) > Interface > from the Natural Free Energy Auto-Ionization of water into H3O+ and OH- > ions. > It has been around for Eons, and can form at any surface that can donate > an electron to neutralize the H3O+ ion > H2O- n(H3O*) drawn from an Eonium Cell for a 4.0 liter 4 cycle engine > with a Venturi effect (Air - H2O or H3O*) mixing ratio of 2:1 at 2400 > RPM/4 > equal about 5 liters of H2O-n(H3O*) ~ 1/12 gram per second or 300 grams > 3/4 lb (as H2O) per hour. > A gram of H2O evaporated at 15 torr (~ 0.6 inches Hg at 65 F) occupies > ~ 62 liters volume. > The "Eonium" generation takes place at the Helmholtz layer at the > Metal-H2O interface, > hence the battery voltage/energy serves more as a "biasing" function than > a > power-consuming electrolysis source. > The Metal-H2O interface surface area per cylinder/displacement > requirement is crucial for adequate H2O-H3O* production, but the > load/demand > control without a "throttle" might be sporadic.. > > You can hear more about Eonium-Here here. :-) > > Fred From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 23 04:10:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3NBAXhq002040; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 04:10:33 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3NBAVm2002016; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 04:10:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 04:10:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=d+OCAuR0MHnBhYgoAM/VuduQv1b+rXAGhvQ4a/QZM0ZIUfhqEKxDAorWKs+XIAs3; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064023111022638@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: EONIUM-HERE (H3O*) Powered Engines Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 05:10:22 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9408fb7edff1b0eb255a465cd24ab23680f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.99 Resent-Message-ID: <1oa6fD.A.af.mC2SEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67724 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michel Jullian wrote: > > Hi Fred, > > Enthalpy being a state variable, if it releases high energy when consumed I > imagine it absorbs high energy when formed? > I think the answers are here, Michel. Dyatlov's Polarized Vacuum: http://www.americanantigravity.com/articles/526/1/Polarization-Model-of-the- Inhomogeneous-Physical-Vacuum Davis and Puthoff's Polarized Vacuum: http://www.earthtech.org/publications/davis_STAIF_conference_1.pdf And Mills' Blacklight Power website. Use the Joe Cell plans. http://pesn.com/2006/04/13/9600257_Bill_Williams_threatened/ http://pesn.com/ Build-your-own Joe Cell: http://educate-yourself.org/fe/fejoewatercell.shtml Why you don't want "Magnetic" materials.in your Orgone Accumulator. aka EONIUM-HERE Cell. 316 Stainless Steel Alloys: Chemical Formula Fe, <0.03% C, 16-18.5% Cr, 10-14% Ni, 2-3% Mo, <2% Mn, <1% Si, <0.045% P, <0.03% S 304 SS Alloys: Chemical Formula Fe, <0.08% C, 17.5-20% Cr, 8-11% Ni, <2% Mn, <1% Si, <0.045% P, <0.03% S The normal CO2 from air that gets into the water forms carbonic acid (H2CO3) which extracts the iron from the 316 stainless steel as a sludge that floats off the top giving a porous Ni-Cr surface enhancing the Helmholtz Layer Interface. Fred > > Michel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frederick Sparber" > To: "vortex-l" > Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 12:01 PM > Subject: Re: EONIUM-HERE (H3O*) Powered Engines > > > > Eonium, (H3O*) is a neutralized hydronium ion, a High- > > Energy-Releasing Entity (HERE) formed at the Metal-H2O (Helmholtz Layer) > > Interface > > from the Natural Free Energy Auto-Ionization of water into H3O+ and OH- > > ions. > > It has been around for Eons, and can form at any surface that can donate > > an electron to neutralize the H3O+ ion > > H2O- n(H3O*) drawn from an Eonium Cell for a 4.0 liter 4 cycle engine > > with a Venturi effect (Air - H2O or H3O*) mixing ratio of 2:1 at 2400 > > RPM/4 > > equal about 5 liters of H2O-n(H3O*) ~ 1/12 gram per second or 300 grams > > 3/4 lb (as H2O) per hour. > > A gram of H2O evaporated at 15 torr (~ 0.6 inches Hg at 65 F) occupies > > ~ 62 liters volume. > > The "Eonium" generation takes place at the Helmholtz layer at the > > Metal-H2O interface, > > hence the battery voltage/energy serves more as a "biasing" function than > > a > > power-consuming electrolysis source. > > The Metal-H2O interface surface area per cylinder/displacement > > requirement is crucial for adequate H2O-H3O* production, but the > > load/demand > > control without a "throttle" might be sporadic.. > > > > You can hear more about Eonium-Here here. :-) > > > > Fred From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 23 04:24:33 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3NBOId4009617; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 04:24:18 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3NBOGtK009590; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 04:24:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 04:24:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <012701c666c8$75b50dd0$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-220064023111022638@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: EONIUM-HERE (H3O*) Powered Engines Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 13:24:08 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: <1UxwaB.A.qVC.fP2SEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67725 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ah OK Fred, I thought you were talking about conventional chemistry/physics for once (should have known better ;) Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 1:10 PM Subject: Re: EONIUM-HERE (H3O*) Powered Engines > Michel Jullian wrote: >> >> Hi Fred, >> >> Enthalpy being a state variable, if it releases high energy when consumed > I >> imagine it absorbs high energy when formed? >> > I think the answers are here, Michel. > > Dyatlov's Polarized Vacuum: > > http://www.americanantigravity.com/articles/526/1/Polarization-Model-of-the- > Inhomogeneous-Physical-Vacuum > > Davis and Puthoff's Polarized Vacuum: > > http://www.earthtech.org/publications/davis_STAIF_conference_1.pdf > > And Mills' Blacklight Power website. > > Use the Joe Cell plans. > > http://pesn.com/2006/04/13/9600257_Bill_Williams_threatened/ > > http://pesn.com/ > > Build-your-own Joe Cell: > > http://educate-yourself.org/fe/fejoewatercell.shtml > > Why you don't want "Magnetic" materials.in your Orgone Accumulator. > > aka EONIUM-HERE Cell. > > 316 Stainless Steel Alloys: > Chemical Formula > Fe, <0.03% C, 16-18.5% Cr, 10-14% Ni, 2-3% Mo, <2% Mn, <1% Si, <0.045% P, > <0.03% S > > 304 SS Alloys: > Chemical Formula > Fe, <0.08% C, 17.5-20% Cr, 8-11% Ni, <2% Mn, <1% Si, <0.045% P, <0.03% S > > The normal CO2 from air that gets into the water forms carbonic acid > (H2CO3) > which extracts the iron from the 316 stainless steel as a sludge that > floats off the top giving a porous > Ni-Cr surface enhancing the Helmholtz Layer Interface. > > Fred >> >> Michel >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Frederick Sparber" >> To: "vortex-l" >> Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 12:01 PM >> Subject: Re: EONIUM-HERE (H3O*) Powered Engines >> >> >> > Eonium, (H3O*) is a neutralized hydronium ion, a High- >> > Energy-Releasing Entity (HERE) formed at the Metal-H2O (Helmholtz > Layer) >> > Interface >> > from the Natural Free Energy Auto-Ionization of water into H3O+ and OH- >> > ions. >> > It has been around for Eons, and can form at any surface that can >> > donate >> > an electron to neutralize the H3O+ ion >> > H2O- n(H3O*) drawn from an Eonium Cell for a 4.0 liter 4 cycle engine >> > with a Venturi effect (Air - H2O or H3O*) mixing ratio of 2:1 at 2400 >> > RPM/4 >> > equal about 5 liters of H2O-n(H3O*) ~ 1/12 gram per second or 300 >> > grams >> > 3/4 lb (as H2O) per hour. >> > A gram of H2O evaporated at 15 torr (~ 0.6 inches Hg at 65 F) >> > occupies >> > ~ 62 liters volume. >> > The "Eonium" generation takes place at the Helmholtz layer at the >> > Metal-H2O interface, >> > hence the battery voltage/energy serves more as a "biasing" function > than >> > a >> > power-consuming electrolysis source. >> > The Metal-H2O interface surface area per cylinder/displacement >> > requirement is crucial for adequate H2O-H3O* production, but the >> > load/demand >> > control without a "throttle" might be sporadic.. >> > >> > You can hear more about Eonium-Here here. :-) >> > >> > Fred > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 23 04:52:02 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3NBpp6E020742; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 04:51:52 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3NBpnMG020723; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 04:51:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 04:51:49 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=slFCTxgnsWclYPEWpi8kiEtzTF44YQcit9kXdDj5ayUTJiX4kLL0sbcLA9rTMy5u; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064023115138779@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: EONIUM-HERE (H3O*) Powered Engines Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 05:51:38 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9403d278685e540ddbb1197107f7acc9bd8350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67726 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michel Jullian wrote: > > Ah OK Fred, I thought you were talking about conventional chemistry/physics > for once (should have known better ;) > Think about it, Michel. Why use this effect that most likely occurs in cavitation bubble collapse (reportedly up to 80 million deg K, ~ 6,900 eV) in "agitated waters" and in tornados/vortices the sands-of-beaches etc. to get power to run an engine, when you can do it directly by aspiring to or aspiration of EONIUM-HERE ? :-) Fred > > Michel > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 23 05:23:16 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3NCN3pI031948; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 05:23:03 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3NCN1II031921; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 05:23:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 05:23:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2006-03-10) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.6 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Message-ID: <001401c666d0$a1100450$7c027841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: Re: EONIUM-HERE (H3O*) Powered Engines Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 07:22:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C666A6.B7A73230" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67727 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C666A6.B7A73230 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0011_01C666A6.B7AA3F70" ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C666A6.B7AA3F70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankMichel wrote.. >Ah OK Fred, I thought you were talking about conventional = chemistry/physics=20 >for once (should have known better ;) Howdy Michel.. =20 Conventional physics/ chemistry ?? There ain't no such thing as we are = beginning to discover !! Once had the best welder worked in our shop. You could take a set of = drawings to him ..he wouldn't study them until you described it's = purpose. Once he knew it's use, he could figure out the drawings and how = to make it.=20 Jones' remark in "A blast in Ohio" thread started me thinking. Perhaps scientific discover eludes the brightest in favor of the = intuitive, that being someone that looks at a solar flare or a hurricane = and ponders the question.. What was the purpose.. rather than..how was = it made ?? In the grand scheme of things we must remember we exist in a seething = cauldron of energy bursting at the seams. In the universe we have checks = and balances to keep everything from flying out of control. A closer = study indicates we have both chaos and order.. a paradox.. until we = consider we are actually viewing " ordered chaos" rather than "order out = of chaos".=20 Fred has this remarkble ability to view both perspectives. In his mind, = it must be like holding a spitting wildcat in each hand to keep the two = separate. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C666A6.B7AA3F70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Michel wrote..
 
>Ah OK Fred, I thought you were talking about conventional=20 chemistry/physics
>for once (should have known better = ;)

Howdy=20 Michel.. 
Conventional physics/ chemistry ??  There ain't no such = thing as=20 we are beginning to discover !!
 
Once had the best welder worked in our shop. You could take a = set of=20 drawings to him ..he wouldn't study them until you described it's = purpose. Once=20 he knew it's use, he could figure out the drawings and how to make = it.=20
Jones' remark in "A blast in Ohio" thread started me = thinking.
Perhaps scientific discover eludes the brightest in favor of the = intuitive,=20 that being someone that looks at a solar flare or a hurricane and = ponders the=20 question.. What was the purpose.. rather than..how was it made ??
 In the grand scheme of things we must remember we exist in a = seething=20 cauldron of energy bursting at the seams. In the universe we have checks = and=20 balances to keep everything from flying out of control. A closer study = indicates=20 we have both chaos and order.. a paradox.. until we consider we are = actually=20 viewing " ordered chaos" rather than "order out of chaos".
Fred has this remarkble ability to view both perspectives. In his=20 mind,  it must be like holding a spitting wildcat in each hand = to keep=20 the two separate.
 
Richard

 

------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C666A6.B7AA3F70-- ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C666A6.B7A73230 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000f01c666d0$a0464bb0$7c027841@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C666A6.B7A73230-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 23 06:02:21 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3ND29Z0012666; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 06:02:09 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3ND27Er012642; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 06:02:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 06:02:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=AVhHJcVbRDUrLwcJgGeGU9iCqUAavTiqLBVuZIGvjxoKdEj/x0PYK0pxbKwbnyQH; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006402313147437@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: EONIUM-HERE (H3O*) Powered Engines Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 07:01:47 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940da9609719acf090af9cf777c7153033b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.235 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67728 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII BTW, Michel. The possibly ubiquitous "Electronium" (*e-) particle 1.7 -2.7 electron mass, stable Electron-Positronium Triad might be the "Electron" shaken loose from an atom, and taken up by the H3O+ ion at the H2O-Electron-Donor interface to form (H3O*).which when bumped hard enough goes to a fractional Bohr orbit releasing several KeV energy. Billions of people rack up trillions of miles without the slightest idea of the physics involved in that machine's operation. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
BTW, Michel.
 
The possibly ubiquitous "Electronium" (*e-) particle
1.7 -2.7 electron  mass, stable Electron-Positronium Triad
might be the "Electron" shaken loose from an atom,
and taken up by the  H3O+ ion at the H2O-Electron-Donor interface
to form (H3O*).which when bumped hard enough goes to a
fractional Bohr orbit releasing several KeV energy.
 
Billions of people rack up trillions of miles without
the slightest idea of the physics involved
in that machine's operation.
 
Fred
 
 
 
 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 23 07:01:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3NE1aHR031020; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 07:01:36 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3NE1ZUe031015; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 07:01:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 07:01:35 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=R+cbIo6lY0gHGhL+0ghRwolReh3UdNkXvCkYqo0irTDfd/r1xqJnQHFBin/cF7ZW; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200640231412111@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: EONIUM-HERE (H3O*) Powered Engines Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 08:01:21 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94072835ec1af9cf025ff0e621366740f16350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.216 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67729 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII BTW, II Positron emission of Potassium-40 (in all naturally occurring Potassium) converts the nucleus to the (99%) abundant Argon-40 atom. Indigenous Electronium in Argon-40? > > BTW, Michel. > > The possibly ubiquitous "Electronium" (*e-) particle > 1.7 -2.7 electron mass, stable Electron-Positronium Triad > might be the "Electron" shaken loose from an atom, > and taken up by the H3O+ ion at the H2O-Electron-Donor interface > to form (H3O*).which when bumped hard enough goes to a > fractional Bohr orbit releasing several KeV energy. > Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
BTW, II
 
Positron emission of Potassium-40  (in all naturally occurring Potassium)
converts the nucleus to the (99%) abundant Argon-40 atom.
 
Indigenous Electronium in Argon-40?
>  
> BTW, Michel.
>
> The possibly ubiquitous "Electronium" (*e-) particle
> 1.7 -2.7 electron  mass, stable Electron-Positronium Triad
> might be the "Electron" shaken loose from an atom,
> and taken up by the  H3O+ ion at the H2O-Electron-Donor interface
> to form (H3O*).which when bumped hard enough goes to a
> fractional Bohr orbit releasing several KeV energy.
>
 
Fred
 
 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 23 08:18:16 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3NFI4K1026862; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 08:18:04 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3NFI1P4026840; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 08:18:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 08:18:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <015e01c666e9$1d63a300$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <001401c666d0$a1100450$7c027841@xptower> Subject: Re: EONIUM-HERE (H3O*) Powered Engines Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 17:17:54 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67730 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I like your images Richard, I visualize Fred and his two wild cats quite neatly :) Regarding the Joe cell which I must admit I only first heard about in recent posts here, has the excess energy been confirmed by reliable people such as the sensible mad scientists at Earthtech.org, does anyone know? Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "RC Macaulay" To: Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 2:22 PM Subject: Re: EONIUM-HERE (H3O*) Powered Engines Michel wrote.. >Ah OK Fred, I thought you were talking about conventional chemistry/physics >for once (should have known better ;) Howdy Michel.. Conventional physics/ chemistry ?? There ain't no such thing as we are beginning to discover !! Once had the best welder worked in our shop. You could take a set of drawings to him ..he wouldn't study them until you described it's purpose. Once he knew it's use, he could figure out the drawings and how to make it. Jones' remark in "A blast in Ohio" thread started me thinking. Perhaps scientific discover eludes the brightest in favor of the intuitive, that being someone that looks at a solar flare or a hurricane and ponders the question.. What was the purpose.. rather than..how was it made ?? In the grand scheme of things we must remember we exist in a seething cauldron of energy bursting at the seams. In the universe we have checks and balances to keep everything from flying out of control. A closer study indicates we have both chaos and order.. a paradox.. until we consider we are actually viewing " ordered chaos" rather than "order out of chaos". Fred has this remarkble ability to view both perspectives. In his mind, it must be like holding a spitting wildcat in each hand to keep the two separate. Richard From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 23 08:22:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3NFMVF4028754; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 08:22:31 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3NFMUaq028739; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 08:22:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 08:22:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <016401c666e9$beaa9020$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-22006402313147437@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: EONIUM-HERE (H3O*) Powered Engines Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 17:22:16 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67731 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Again the Mills stuff is very new to me Fred. There is evidence for those fractional Bohr orbits in the form of unexpected hydrogen emission lines isn't there? Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 3:01 PM Subject: Re: EONIUM-HERE (H3O*) Powered Engines > BTW, Michel. > > The possibly ubiquitous "Electronium" (*e-) particle > 1.7 -2.7 electron mass, stable Electron-Positronium Triad > might be the "Electron" shaken loose from an atom, > and taken up by the H3O+ ion at the H2O-Electron-Donor interface > to form (H3O*).which when bumped hard enough goes to a > fractional Bohr orbit releasing several KeV energy. > > Billions of people rack up trillions of miles without > the slightest idea of the physics involved > in that machine's operation. > > Fred From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 23 08:51:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3NFpC62009136; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 08:51:13 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3NFpANo009114; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 08:51:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 08:51:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <002c01c666ed$bbe3ab20$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex-l" References: <410-2200640231412111@earthlink.net> Subject: Spargone Powered Engine Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 08:51:06 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67732 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber "Positron emission of Potassium-40 (in all naturally occurring Potassium) converts the nucleus to the (99%) abundant Argon-40 atom. Indigenous Electronium in Argon-40?" Nice addition to Joe's Down-Home Diner, Fred - we seem to be getting somewhere. I hope it is towards a nice meal. I propose that we call it the Spargone Blue-Plate Special We have now managed to combine 4-5 far-out ideas: electronium, the Joe_Cell, the Larson reciprocal system (and below) "efficient" Argon emission, the Auger cascade and the Papp engine into something completely unexpected. The catch-of-the day ... on Vortex ... along with a conlcuding Sunday-morning anti-mainstream homily. Perhaps it is all closer to SciFi than to HighSci. Time will tell. And if it turns out (first of many "if") that the electronium triad (e-)* is being formed follwing a 40K decay, then that entity will very likely take up residence in the k-shell of the resultant Argon, due to its higher mass. This would be expected, no? /even if the triad is transitory. Hope this is not confusing the shorthand verbalization with too many "k's" (and baseball season is not even in full swing). Once again, this outcome could be the reason for the unusual (and understated) anomaly with Argon - which mainstream science is calling, with characteristic euphemism - the "efficient" emission regime... and which Vo's may soon-to-be-calling OU-Ar-Us... http://tinyurl.com/zubcr or http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/servlet/GetabsServlet?prog=normal&id=PHPAEN000008000007003135000001&idtype=cvips&gifs=yes This is a rather HUGE anomaly, folks and well-documented but mainstream science is barely aware of it - one would almost say "begrudgingly" aware of it. However, I think the most likely modality for the overall mechanics of the situation in the Joe_Cell is this - when a hydronium ion encounters the approach of a heavy-Ar atom (one with an electronium substituted for a k-shell electron) - the proton from the hydronium ion is occasionally drawn into the inner orbit of the Ar by the Coulomb-well of the Argon outer electrons - and into the outer reaches of the k-shell where it can sometimes capture the electronium which is plodding along in comparative slo-mo in that locale. Following which, an Auger cascade results. In the few milliseconds available - this can even happen more than once. The ultimate source of energy is Puthoff's ZPE which in theory maintains the stability of the k-shell and all the others "as well". For this modality to provide kinetic energy it must take place in the combustion chamber itself - and there the added compression, plus the spark-advance is what starts the process of forcing the hydronium's proton into the Argon k-shell. Microwave energy would probably work better than the spark. That is probably one reason why the BLP process works as well as it does. If Mills were to use heavy argon - as defined above, who knows but he might get a rather substantial explosion. The auger cascade of Argon will give about 5000 times more energy than hydrocarbon combustion - per unit of molecular weight. Again the prime source of energy is ZPE -operating though the k-shell. Obviously, very little of this speculation above is now being optimized in the operation of a normal Joe_Cell and that is (could be) why some of them work and some do not - often depending on "the water." I would suggest that proper charging of the water should be done in potassium-laced cell in order to guarantee the maximum amount of heavy-Ar is dissolved. Argon can be added from a tank in addition (see below). Another improvement would be a totally "closed" system (recycled gases). Since there is no combustion anyway in these systems (reportedly) and since most of the heavy Ar will not fully participate on a single pass - it would be far better to operated the engine in a closed-cycle mode... then the extra Argon added from a tank is not wasted. Hmmm.... Kind of reminds one of the Papp engine - no? Jones Hmmm... sound to me that the only reason the Papp engine may have worked on occasion is when he got some hydrogen contamination in the argon. Argon was always there in his mixes, it seems - or else if the "radioactive" plug (often mentioned) contained 40K, or another beta emitter, as the radioactive species - so that (e-)* was present.... ... well, as a historical footnote: its too bad that R. Feynman was such as dufuss do-gooder-turned-killer (at a Papp demonstration). He could have probably figured this modality himself out some time ago, had he been possessed with a more open mind... QED notwithstanding. For those who do not remember - and Feynman's apologists are quick to try to rewrite history: there was a public display of the Papp engine in a parking lot in Torrance, California in 1968 - which attracted none other than Nobel Laureate Richard Feynman. The modified four cylinder Volvo engine on a test stand in the parking lot was controlled by engine electronics run from a 120 volt extension cord plugged into the building 100 feet away. Feynman saw the extension cord and, genius that he was, decided that he knew the source of the hoax he was so convinced it was a hoax that he pulled the plug, but the engine continued to run !! And for some time. After about two minutes, the engine had not slowed down (running about 3000 rpm, as evidenced by the fan left on the engine to produce a visible effect) but started to run rough. Papp grew nervous and argued with Feynman to plug it back in. Feynman refused, so Papp yanked the cord from Feynman and plugged it in. The engine exploded, killing one bystander. Feynman accused Papp of placing explosives in the engine so it would be destroyed before legitimate testing could be done, in order to keep the hoax alive. Since a fatality occurred, the FBI got involved. No evidence of explosives was found. Papp sued Feynman and Feynman and Caltech settled out of court for what would today be in the millions of dollars. Caltech, of course, had liability insurance and not only that, the reputation of their "star" to uphold. If it were a hoax, there is no way Caltech would have settled out of court. It was done so Feynman and Caltech could save face. IF - and this is a huge IF - the Papp engine is ultimately seen to have been the solution to the present energy crisis. And even bigger IF - if the tenets of QED are involved in its operation - then one wonders what history will remember of the "genius" Feynman ? Will a fraction of the body count in Iraq be added (in a rewriting of history) to the genius-Feynman's present death toll of 1... in the quashing of Free-energy ?? Hmmm... Sorry for the rant... is it a full moon again ? From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 23 09:38:18 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3NGc2jq028518; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:38:03 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3NGbI3N028239; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:37:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:37:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-IronPort-AV: i="4.04,150,1144036800"; d="scan'208"; a="1035327202:sNHT23313262" Message-ID: <25818108.1145810234979.JavaMail.root@fepweb01> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 9:37:14 -0700 From: OrionWorks To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Spargone Powered Engine Cc: orionworks@charter.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Sensitivity: Normal Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67733 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---- Jones Beene wrote: ... > In the few milliseconds available - this can even happen more than > once. The ultimate source of energy is Puthoff's ZPE which in > theory maintains the stability of the k-shell and all the others > "as well". Jones, I've heard about the Papp story for years, and Feynman's role in the matter as wel. Pardon my ignorance on this matter. Is anyone attempting to recreate the original conditions of this model, or is it assumed that the actual speculated "physics" of Papp engine so grossly misunderstood that any attempt to build one doomed to fail utterly? Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 23 09:58:09 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3NGvsEl005833; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:57:55 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3NGvrtc005818; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:57:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:57:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060423165750317.4D6B39400084@mwinf3209.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060423165751.00d052dc@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 17:57:51 +0100 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: EONIUM-HERE (H3O*) Powered Engines Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67734 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:22 am 23/04/2006 -0500, Richard wrote: > A closer study indicates we have both chaos and order.. > a paradox.. until we consider we are actually viewing " > ordered chaos" rather than "order out of chaos". Rather we are viewing hierarchical order - order at every scale. There is so much order that it overwhelms our understanding and so we label it as chaos. Tne number pi is apparently chaotic until we recognise it for what it is. Frank From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 23 10:17:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3NHHV6m016132; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 10:17:31 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3NHHTVP016112; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 10:17:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 10:17:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <003f01c666f9$ca605ac0$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: Cc: References: <25818108.1145810234979.JavaMail.root@fepweb01> Subject: Re: Spargone Powered Engine Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 10:17:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67735 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Steven, > I've heard about the Papp story for years, and Feynman's role in > the matter as well. Pardon my ignorance on this matter. Is > anyone attempting to recreate the original conditions of this > model, Yes. Google: Ken-Rauen or Ken-Rauen Papp. He had some funding at one time, but was not successful (yet). > ...or is it assumed that the actual speculated "physics" of Papp > engine so grossly misunderstood that any attempt to build one > doomed to fail utterly? IMHO this has been Ken's problem in replication: he is selectively relying on "some" or most of the Papp story, and rejecting the rest. He may have rejected the wrong parts... or it may have been a total fraud. Papp was definitely - and without question a notorious con-man and a paranoid liar. Let's not mince words. He was also gifted in some ways, and a creative thinker with "inventor's disease" as diagnosed by BillB. This engine-scenario could have been totally fraudulent - or he could have started out on a fraudulent basis (like his high speed submarine) - and then gotten very, very lucky, or he could have been channeling Jules Verne . This has happened before- i.e. where an intended scam turns out to be a serendipitous discovery. However, if it is correct to assume that heavy-Argon is the active gas, then it is a whole new ball-game and we do not need that kind of specialized engine at all. Just some re-designed plumbing on any old ICE. Back a few months ago, I thought the active agent might be the hydrino, in the Papp engine. I had a brief exchange with Ken and he rejected that notion and others. I came away with the feeling that he is not very open to alternatives, and that his funding has run dry. Hopefully that is wrong on both counts. The present notion of "Spargone" (electroniumized-Argon) is even further out. Check that: waaaay-further-out ...but today it sounds very intriguing. Who knows? Maybe Feynman and Papp have hooked-up in Purgatory and are trying to expiate their sins - (to get into a higher realm? i.e. a ticket-to-ride) by combining their odd-couple resources and the only way to do this is to channel this info to those who are "listening"... Maybe Fred and I are so close to joining them, that we are tuned into this odd-couple message-from afar IOW... the message (sermon) is: do not believe anything you hear from the Vo-pulpit on a Sunday. Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 23 10:38:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3NHbxdU023306; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 10:38:03 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3NHbvD8023284; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 10:37:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 10:37:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=jrdXsmOOihRNLURMSGGJ3z3s5NtO+c8qwCW9T84J7bmsi3oXWkvQGq0g3RV2iq8K; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064023173740196@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: EONIUM-HERE (H3O*) Powered Engines Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 11:37:40 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9405b226e195537a66d3b726b99593ec2c1350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.147 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67736 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michel Jullian > > I like your images Richard, I visualize Fred and his two wild cats quite > neatly :) > > Regarding the Joe cell which I must admit I only first heard about in recent > posts here, has the excess energy been confirmed by reliable people such as > the sensible mad scientists at Earthtech.org, does anyone know? > That may soon be Earthtech dot Orgone, Michel. :-) Fred > > Michel > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 23 10:52:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3NHpwCR029155; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 10:51:58 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3NHpvJt029145; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 10:51:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 10:51:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=bH3wDMm1kpuhza+y6u69/wFywcR+4ChkqFahZq8nQdrp71f0Z+NzXZYSL2oxMTNM; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064023175148576@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Spargone Powered Engine Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 11:51:48 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94094b3fa2c0a264a4b4744328ce3eef0d8350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.147 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67737 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones Beene wrote. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Frederick Sparber > > "Positron emission of Potassium-40 (in all naturally occurring > Potassium) converts the nucleus to the (99%) abundant Argon-40 > atom. Indigenous Electronium in Argon-40?" > > > Nice addition to Joe's Down-Home Diner, Fred - we seem to be > getting somewhere. I hope it is towards a nice meal. I propose > that we call it the Spargone Blue-Plate Special > Maybe Fargone Argon, Perhaps? > > We have now managed to combine 4-5 far-out ideas: electronium, the > Joe_Cell, the Larson reciprocal system (and below) "efficient" > Argon emission, the Auger cascade and the Papp engine into > something completely unexpected. The catch-of-the day ... on > Vortex > You left out the Canadian "Lawn Mower Man", Jones. Microwave oven magnetron pulsed into a lawnmower engine,wasn't it? > > ... along with a concluding Sunday-morning anti-mainstream homily. > Perhaps it is all closer to SciFi than to HighSci. Time will tell. > > And if it turns out (first of many "if") that the electronium > triad (e-)* is being formed following a 40K decay, then that entity > will very likely take up residence in the k-shell of the resultant > Argon, due to its higher mass. This would be expected, no? /even > if the triad is transitory. > The deepest totally stripped Regular Electron affinity for any atom is 13.6 * Z^2 eV. Thus for totally stripped Argon 13.6 * 18^2 = 4406 eV. OTOH, Electronium could be anywhere in cloud, or is it crowd, if you're a visitor from the far east? > > However, I think the most likely modality for the overall > mechanics of the situation in the Joe_Cell is this - when a > hydronium ion encounters the approach of a heavy-Ar atom (one with > an electronium substituted for a k-shell electron) - the proton > from the hydronium ion is occasionally drawn into the inner orbit > of the Ar by the Coulomb-well of the Argon outer electrons - and > into the outer reaches of the k-shell where it can sometimes > capture the electronium which is plodding along in comparative > slo-mo in that locale. Following which, an Auger cascade results. > Possible. > > In the few milliseconds available - this can even happen more than > once. The ultimate source of energy is Puthoff's ZPE which in > theory maintains the stability of the k-shell and all the others > "as well". > Red Herring on the side? > > For this modality to provide kinetic energy it must take place in > the combustion chamber itself - and there the added compression, > plus the spark-advance is what starts the process of forcing the > hydronium's proton into the Argon k-shell. > Anywhere the proton gets into the Argon's electron cloud will do. > > Microwave energy would probably work better than the spark. > That was the "Lawnmower Man's claim. > > That is probably one reason why the BLP process works as well as it > does. If Mills were to use heavy argon - as defined above, who > knows but he might get a rather substantial explosion. > > The auger cascade of Argon will give about 5000 times more energy > than hydrocarbon combustion - per unit of molecular weight. Again > the prime source of energy is ZPE -operating though the k-shell. > 1000 times would be spectacular. > > Obviously, very little of this speculation above is now being > optimized in the operation of a normal Joe_Cell and that is (could > be) why some of them work and some do not - often depending on > "the water." > Or weather? > > I would suggest that proper charging of the water should be done > in potassium-laced cell in order to guarantee the maximum amount > of heavy-Ar is dissolved. Argon can be added from a tank in > addition (see below). > Etch the Stainless with dissolved CO2 - Carbonic Acid first. > > Another improvement would be a totally "closed" system (recycled > gases). Since there is no combustion anyway in these systems > (reportedly) and since most of the heavy Ar will not fully > participate on a single pass - it would be far better to operated > the engine in a closed-cycle mode... then the extra Argon added > from a tank is not wasted. > Yes. > > Hmmm.... > Wankel engine Mazda's do Hmmm. :-) > > Kind of reminds one of the Papp engine - no? > Feynman didn't win them all. Fred > > Jones > > Hmmm... sound to me that the only reason the Papp engine may have > worked on occasion is when he got some hydrogen contamination in > the argon. Argon was always there in his mixes, it seems - or else > if the "radioactive" plug (often mentioned) contained 40K, or > another beta emitter, as the radioactive species - so that (e-)* > was present.... > > ... well, as a historical footnote: its too bad that R. Feynman > was such as dufuss do-gooder-turned-killer (at a Papp > demonstration). He could have probably figured this modality > himself out some time ago, had he been possessed with a more open > mind... QED notwithstanding. > > For those who do not remember - and Feynman's apologists are quick > to try to rewrite history: there was a public display of the Papp > engine in a parking lot in Torrance, California in 1968 - which > attracted none other than Nobel Laureate Richard Feynman. The > modified four cylinder Volvo engine on a test stand in the parking > lot was controlled by engine electronics run from a 120 volt > extension cord plugged into the building 100 feet away. > > Feynman saw the extension cord and, genius that he was, decided > that he knew the source of the hoax he was so convinced it was a > hoax that he pulled the plug, but the engine continued to run !! > > And for some time. > > After about two minutes, the engine had not slowed down (running > about 3000 rpm, as evidenced by the fan left on the engine to > produce a visible effect) but started to run rough. > > Papp grew nervous and argued with Feynman to plug it back in. > Feynman refused, so Papp yanked the cord from Feynman and plugged > it in. The engine exploded, killing one bystander. Feynman accused > Papp of placing explosives in the engine so it would be destroyed > before legitimate testing could be done, in order to keep the hoax > alive. Since a fatality occurred, the FBI got involved. No > evidence of explosives was found. Papp sued Feynman and Feynman > and Caltech settled out of court for what would today be in the > millions of dollars. Caltech, of course, had liability insurance > and not only that, the reputation of their "star" to uphold. > > If it were a hoax, there is no way Caltech would have settled out > of court. It was done so Feynman and Caltech could save face. > > IF - and this is a huge IF - the Papp engine is ultimately seen to > have been the solution to the present energy crisis. And even > bigger IF - if the tenets of QED are involved in its operation - > then one wonders what history will remember of the "genius" > Feynman ? > > Will a fraction of the body count in Iraq be added (in a rewriting > of history) to the genius-Feynman's present death toll of 1... in > the quashing of Free-energy ?? > > Hmmm... Sorry for the rant... is it a full moon again ? From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 23 11:07:50 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3NHwf7l032203; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 10:58:43 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3NHwU2k032101; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 10:58:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 10:58:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <018401c666ff$84721340$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-220064023173740196@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: EONIUM-HERE (H3O*) Powered Engines Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 19:58:24 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: <5fqMAB.A.L1H.EB8SEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67738 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thats' a good one Fred :) And the answer to the orgoniginal question is? Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 7:37 PM Subject: Re: EONIUM-HERE (H3O*) Powered Engines > Michel Jullian >> >> I like your images Richard, I visualize Fred and his two wild cats quite >> neatly :) >> >> Regarding the Joe cell which I must admit I only first heard about in > recent >> posts here, has the excess energy been confirmed by reliable people such > as >> the sensible mad scientists at Earthtech.org, does anyone know? >> > That may soon be Earthtech dot Orgone, Michel. :-) > > Fred >> >> Michel >> > > > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 23 11:09:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3NI9QuI004518; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 11:09:26 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3NI9O26004505; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 11:09:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 11:09:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=RvuJFj47C2CBoUbQyZn5oyVaRpfrSiVVzauA9CCgboPLSCTJ8Q5CsufVV2A7VqkW; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006402318912567@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Lawnmower Man Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 12:09:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940b121eacebfc641510b9ff4352b92793e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.165.16 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67739 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > >From 76570.2270@compuserve.comSat Oct 28 17:38:42 1995 > Date: 28 Oct 95 15:57:18 EDT > From: Eugene Mallove <76570.2270@compuserve.com> > Reply to: vortex-l@mail.eskimo.com > To: Vortex > Subject: Lawnmower Man > > Someone sent me a hard copy of this and I transcribed it. May make for some > fun experiments connected with cavitation, steam, and O-U. > > Gene Mallove > ********************************* > > From: Pat_Pelletier@mindlink.bc.ca (Pat Pelletier) > Newsgroups: sci.engr > Subject: PUBLIC DISCLOSURE - NEW INVENTION > Date: Mon, 28 Aug 95 10:54:05 - 0700 > Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada > > I am posting the following for a friend who does NOT have access to Internet. > Comments welcomed. > > NOTICE > > The prupose of this notice is to place into public domain something which I > invented so that it may be patented and in order to prevent it's use from > being restricted in any way. > > The device is an engine in which small quantitites of water are turned into > steam by the use of a magnetron (as found in microwave ovens). > > Interested parties may wish to try this test: Place a few drops of water into > a clear plastic 35mm film roll holder and put the cap on the film roll holder. > Place in a microwave oven and turn the oven on. The 'pop' is the result of > the water turning suddenly into steam. > > The engine I have invented is far more efficient than any other steam engine > because the efficiency of the magnetron in turning water into steam. In fact, > the water droplet 'explodes' very much like air/gasoline explodes in a > conventional internal combustion engine. > > This engine was first tested in 1992. I am however unable to invest the > required capital to produce a more sophisticated model and therefore unable to > patent it. Even though I may not be able to profit from this technology, it > is too good to be kept to myself and I would like to spread it around so that > others may be able to use it. > > The following is an outline of how to construct the device and a few cautions: > > PARTS NEEDED: > > 1. Magnetron from medium power microwave oven. > > 2. Small 4-stroke single cylinder lawn mover engine or similar engine with > 'old style' points and ignition system. > > 3. Automotive alternator with built-in rectifier and regulator, also a 12 > volt auto battery. > > 4. "Trigger" mechanism from an aircraft "strobe" landing light. > > INSTRUCTIONS: > > 1. The magnetron fits into the spark plug hole. > > 2. The distributor points are modified so that the contact is closed when the > piston is at the top dead center and this contact is used to activate the > aircraft strobe mechanism. > > 3. The high voltage from the strobe is connected to directly fire the > magnetron which in turn produces steam which moves the piston. > > 4. The engine turns the alternator which keeps the battery charged, which > supplies the electrical power for the magnetron. > > CAUTION AND TIPS: > > WARNING!!! DANGER!!!! > > 1. Be careful around the magnetron. KEEP IT SHIELDED WITH METAL. IT CAN CAUSE > SEVERE BURNS THAT MAY NOT BE READILY VISIBLE WHEN THEY FIRST OCCUR. > > 2. The 'strobe' trigger delivers a very high voltage which can jump to ground. > WEAR RUBBER SOLED SHOES AND INSULATE WELL. > > 3. Be sure to modify the distributor points so they close at the top dead > center. Timing advance depends on the power of the magnetron used and the > amount of water. Try different carb jet sizes -- drill out if needed. > > 4. Due to variables, don't expect high engine speeds without a little > experimentation due to variables. > > 5. Start with a fully charged battery or your alternator won't work. > > 6. The energy produced is in excess of the power required to run the > alternator but until you get the RPM up, and the parts wrking in harmony, it > may be best to use a battery charger instead of an alternator. > > 7. An easy way to measure net power output after you have the alternator on > line is to run a few 12 volt lights from the battery. You will see that the > battery stays charged even with the lights on and the motor keeps on going. > > 8. Although I have not tried it, the idea of vaporizing water with microwaves > should also work well in a converted turbine. > > SPREAD THIS TECHNOLOGY - IT IS FREE!! > > PRINT THIS BEFORE IT IS DELETED FROM THE NET! > > MY CODE FOR FUTURE IDENTIFICATION IS PANGURBAN > ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII >
> >From 76570.2270@compuserve.comSat Oct 28 17:38:42 1995
> Date: 28 Oct 95 15:57:18 EDT
> From: Eugene Mallove <76570.2270@compuserve.com>
> Reply to: vortex-l@mail.eskimo.com
> To: Vortex <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
> Subject: Lawnmower Man
>
> Someone sent me a hard copy of this and I transcribed it. May make for some
> fun experiments connected with cavitation, steam, and O-U.
>
> Gene Mallove
> *********************************
>
> From: Pat_Pelletier@mindlink.bc.ca (Pat Pelletier)
> Newsgroups: sci.engr
> Subject: PUBLIC DISCLOSURE - NEW INVENTION
> Date: Mon, 28 Aug 95 10:54:05 - 0700
> Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
>
> I am posting the following for a friend who does NOT have access to Internet.
> Comments welcomed.
>
> NOTICE
>
> The prupose of this notice is to place into public domain something which I
> invented so that it may be patented and in order to prevent it's use from
> being restricted in any way.
>
> The device is an engine in which small quantitites of water are turned into
> steam by the use of a magnetron (as found in microwave ovens).
>
> Interested parties may wish to try this test: Place a few drops of water into
> a clear plastic 35mm film roll holder and put the cap on the film roll holder.
>  Place in a microwave oven and turn the oven on. The 'pop' is the result of
> the water turning suddenly into steam.
>
> The engine I have invented is far more efficient than any other steam engine
> because the efficiency of the magnetron in turning water into steam.  In fact,
> the water droplet 'explodes' very much like air/gasoline explodes in a
> conventional internal combustion engine.
>
> This engine was first tested in 1992.  I am however unable to invest the
> required capital to produce a more sophisticated model and therefore unable to
> patent it.  Even though I may not be able to profit from this technology, it
> is too good to be kept to myself and I would like to spread it around so that
> others may be able to use it.
>
> The following is an outline of how to construct the device and a few cautions:
>
> PARTS NEEDED:
>
> 1. Magnetron from medium power microwave oven.
>
> 2. Small 4-stroke single cylinder lawn mover engine or similar engine with
> 'old style' points and ignition system.
>
> 3.  Automotive alternator with built-in rectifier and regulator, also a 12
> volt auto battery.
>
> 4. "Trigger" mechanism from an aircraft "strobe" landing light.
>
> INSTRUCTIONS:
>
> 1. The magnetron fits into the spark plug hole.
>
> 2. The distributor points are modified so that the contact is closed when the
> piston is at the top dead center and this contact is used to activate the
> aircraft strobe mechanism.
>
> 3.  The high voltage from the strobe is connected to directly fire the
> magnetron which in turn produces steam which moves the piston.
>
> 4. The engine turns the alternator which keeps the battery charged, which
> supplies the electrical power for the magnetron.
>
> CAUTION AND TIPS:
>
> WARNING!!! DANGER!!!!
>
> 1. Be careful around the magnetron. KEEP IT SHIELDED WITH METAL.  IT CAN CAUSE
> SEVERE BURNS THAT MAY NOT BE READILY VISIBLE WHEN THEY FIRST OCCUR.
>
> 2. The 'strobe' trigger delivers a very high voltage which can jump to ground.
> WEAR RUBBER SOLED SHOES AND INSULATE WELL.
>
> 3. Be sure to modify the distributor points so they close at the top dead
> center. Timing advance depends on the power of the magnetron used and the
> amount of water. Try different carb jet sizes -- drill out if needed.
>
> 4. Due to variables, don't expect high engine speeds without a little
> experimentation due to variables.
>
> 5. Start with a fully charged battery or your alternator won't work.
>
> 6. The energy produced is in excess of the power required to run the
> alternator but until you get the RPM up, and the parts wrking in harmony, it
> may be best to use a battery charger instead of an alternator.
>
> 7. An easy way to measure net power output after you have the alternator on
> line is to run a few 12 volt lights from the battery.  You will see that the
> battery stays charged even with the lights on and the motor keeps on going.
>
> 8.  Although I have not tried it, the idea of vaporizing water with microwaves
> should also work well in a converted ! turbine.
>
> SPREAD THIS TECHNOLOGY - IT IS FREE!!
>
> PRINT THIS BEFORE IT IS DELETED FROM THE NET!
>
> MY CODE FOR FUTURE IDENTIFICATION IS PANGURBAN
>
 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 23 12:18:33 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3NJICuh030753; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 12:18:13 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3NJI7Dk030721; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 12:18:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 12:18:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <01a301c6670a$a3eb0460$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-22006402318912567@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Lawnmower Man Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 21:18:01 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67740 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > 1. The magnetron fits into the spark plug hole. I would never have thought it would! Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 8:09 PM Subject: Re: Lawnmower Man > > >> >From 76570.2270@compuserve.comSat Oct 28 17:38:42 1995 >> Date: 28 Oct 95 15:57:18 EDT >> From: Eugene Mallove <76570.2270@compuserve.com> >> Reply to: vortex-l@mail.eskimo.com >> To: Vortex >> Subject: Lawnmower Man >> >> Someone sent me a hard copy of this and I transcribed it. May make for >> some >> fun experiments connected with cavitation, steam, and O-U. >> >> Gene Mallove >> ********************************* >> >> From: Pat_Pelletier@mindlink.bc.ca (Pat Pelletier) >> Newsgroups: sci.engr >> Subject: PUBLIC DISCLOSURE - NEW INVENTION >> Date: Mon, 28 Aug 95 10:54:05 - 0700 >> Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada >> >> I am posting the following for a friend who does NOT have access to >> Internet. >> Comments welcomed. >> >> NOTICE >> >> The prupose of this notice is to place into public domain something which >> I >> invented so that it may be patented and in order to prevent it's use from >> being restricted in any way. >> >> The device is an engine in which small quantitites of water are turned >> into >> steam by the use of a magnetron (as found in microwave ovens). >> >> Interested parties may wish to try this test: Place a few drops of water >> into >> a clear plastic 35mm film roll holder and put the cap on the film roll >> holder. >> Place in a microwave oven and turn the oven on. The 'pop' is the result >> of >> the water turning suddenly into steam. >> >> The engine I have invented is far more efficient than any other steam >> engine >> because the efficiency of the magnetron in turning water into steam. In >> fact, >> the water droplet 'explodes' very much like air/gasoline explodes in a >> conventional internal combustion engine. >> >> This engine was first tested in 1992. I am however unable to invest the >> required capital to produce a more sophisticated model and therefore >> unable to >> patent it. Even though I may not be able to profit from this technology, >> it >> is too good to be kept to myself and I would like to spread it around so >> that >> others may be able to use it. >> >> The following is an outline of how to construct the device and a few >> cautions: >> >> PARTS NEEDED: >> >> 1. Magnetron from medium power microwave oven. >> >> 2. Small 4-stroke single cylinder lawn mover engine or similar engine >> with >> 'old style' points and ignition system. >> >> 3. Automotive alternator with built-in rectifier and regulator, also a >> 12 >> volt auto battery. >> >> 4. "Trigger" mechanism from an aircraft "strobe" landing light. >> >> INSTRUCTIONS: >> >> 1. The magnetron fits into the spark plug hole. >> >> 2. The distributor points are modified so that the contact is closed when >> the >> piston is at the top dead center and this contact is used to activate the >> aircraft strobe mechanism. >> >> 3. The high voltage from the strobe is connected to directly fire the >> magnetron which in turn produces steam which moves the piston. >> >> 4. The engine turns the alternator which keeps the battery charged, which >> supplies the electrical power for the magnetron. >> >> CAUTION AND TIPS: >> >> WARNING!!! DANGER!!!! >> >> 1. Be careful around the magnetron. KEEP IT SHIELDED WITH METAL. IT CAN >> CAUSE >> SEVERE BURNS THAT MAY NOT BE READILY VISIBLE WHEN THEY FIRST OCCUR. >> >> 2. The 'strobe' trigger delivers a very high voltage which can jump to >> ground. >> WEAR RUBBER SOLED SHOES AND INSULATE WELL. >> >> 3. Be sure to modify the distributor points so they close at the top dead >> center. Timing advance depends on the power of the magnetron used and the >> amount of water. Try different carb jet sizes -- drill out if needed. >> >> 4. Due to variables, don't expect high engine speeds without a little >> experimentation due to variables. >> >> 5. Start with a fully charged battery or your alternator won't work. >> >> 6. The energy produced is in excess of the power required to run the >> alternator but until you get the RPM up, and the parts wrking in harmony, >> it >> may be best to use a battery charger instead of an alternator. >> >> 7. An easy way to measure net power output after you have the alternator >> on >> line is to run a few 12 volt lights from the battery. You will see that >> the >> battery stays charged even with the lights on and the motor keeps on >> going. >> >> 8. Although I have not tried it, the idea of vaporizing water with >> microwaves >> should also work well in a converted turbine. >> >> SPREAD THIS TECHNOLOGY - IT IS FREE!! >> >> PRINT THIS BEFORE IT IS DELETED FROM THE NET! >> >> MY CODE FOR FUTURE IDENTIFICATION IS PANGURBAN >> From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 23 14:03:02 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3NKoVhw011667; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 13:50:31 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3NKoQsx011618; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 13:50:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 13:50:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=nzl7k1R0I4UT4ah4bmRS9CgrmDOBGPhHyTUhfohWAvxWPCuRyaP9M4eomoiWu0mA; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006402320508886@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lawnmower Man Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 14:50:08 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940c07310c967801a4e0c2d4725ed19d268350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.176 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67741 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michel Jullian wrote. > > > 1. The magnetron fits into the spark plug hole. > > I would never have thought it would! > I think it was referring to the waveguide stub. Interesting the amount of potassium-40 that is in the potassium ions in seawater where it can release a positron into the Oxygen of H2O or CO2, or Sodium, Magnesium, Calcium, etc.,as well as the Argon by-product. http://www.seafriends.org.nz/oceano/seawater.htm Fred > > Michel > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 23 14:13:04 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3NLCpCw020913; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 14:12:51 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3NLCni9020890; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 14:12:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 14:12:49 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <01b901c6671a$ad649aa0$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-22006402320508886@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Lawnmower Man Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 23:12:49 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67742 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 10:50 PM Subject: Re: Lawnmower Man > Michel Jullian wrote. >> >> > 1. The magnetron fits into the spark plug hole. >> >> I would never have thought it would! >> > I think it was referring to the waveguide stub. Even so, chances of compatibility were thin. > > Interesting the amount of potassium-40 that is in the potassium ions > in seawater where it can release a positron into the Oxygen of > H2O or CO2, or Sodium, Magnesium, Calcium, etc.,as well as the Argon > by-product. No wonder we have a global warmup :) Michel > > http://www.seafriends.org.nz/oceano/seawater.htm > > Fred >> >> Michel >> > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 23 14:34:33 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3NLYKS4026803; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 14:34:21 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3NLYISP026782; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 14:34:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 14:34:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <3670884.1145828052507.JavaMail.root@fepweb12> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 14:34:12 -0700 From: OrionWorks To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Spargone Powered Engine Cc: orionworks@charter.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Sensitivity: Normal Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67743 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---- Jones Beene wrote: ... > Maybe Feynman and Papp have hooked-up in Purgatory and are trying > to expiate their sins - (to get into a higher realm? i.e. a > ticket-to-ride) by combining their odd-couple resources and > the only way to do this is to channel this info to those who are > "listening"... Maybe Fred and I are so close to joining them, that > we are tuned into this odd-couple message-from afar > > IOW... the message (sermon) is: do not believe anything you hear > from the Vo-pulpit on a Sunday. > > Jones Ok. I'll turn my blief-o-matic dial down a tad...but not TO zero. ;-) Thanks, for the history lesson, Jones. BTW, if by rare chance Papp or Feynman are occasionally tapping your and Fred's shoulders, rest assured that their subtle prodding will always come across your own ideas. Suddenly they are just there. So, who really cares where our zany thoughts come from. The real trick is manifesting them into physical reality! ;-) Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 23 14:41:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3NLfAdG029056; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 14:41:11 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3NLf9Cv029034; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 14:41:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 14:41:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=ea6cQRqhTFASq5nuk7yWRAhZiorksw/Fu5g+xcvGfTgNsRl7Et/EwNjVDGTe0sXj; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064023214056749@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Microwaving Wet Bricks Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 15:40:56 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9405541c0f0a662e426ea071e767a10a0f6350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.41 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67744 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >From an experiment I did years ago: Many common brick that have been oven dried will not heat up in a microwave oven. If they are soaked in water and placed in a plastic bag then zapped in a microwave oven, the temperature rise is phenomenal. Ceramic Stirling or Steam engine possibilities here? Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
From an experiment I did years ago:
 
Many common brick that have been oven dried will not
heat up in a microwave oven.
If they are soaked in water and placed in a plastic bag then
zapped in a microwave oven, the temperature rise
is phenomenal.
Ceramic Stirling or Steam engine possibilities here?
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 23 16:06:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3NN69Qf024629; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 16:06:09 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3NN67C8024609; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 16:06:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 16:06:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <008f01c6672a$7e28d390$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <410-220064023175148576@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Spargone Powered Engine Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 16:06:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67745 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Speaking of the Ocean - not necessarily the Dirac sea, nor the depth of the imagination - there is the oft-mentioned "Special-K deficit"... and we're not talking breakfast either. Potassium (K) is one of the most abundant elements in the Earth's crust (2.4% by mass) but only 40 ppm in the ocean - despite its solubility. Lets see: 40 compared to 24,000 is rather glaring (of course that is a hyperbolic misuse of statistics - but it helps to make the point). That point being that maybe we have this deficit because the nucleus is more unstable under 'certain' low-energy circumstances than the textbooks allow. And no further mention will be made of Kervan now - but keep in mind that K can arguably be more active even in biology then the following figures about it, based on known properties, permit. Over one out of every 10,000 Potassium atoms is radioactive: Potassium-40 - an unstable isotope with a half life of 1.26 billion years. But there is so much of it in the biota that it must be a major contributor to genetic damage leading to cancer and/or occasionally leading to new (better) genes. It can therfore be considered to be the most important agent of change in all of life - with the possible exception of UV light. Potassium 40 has three decay modes: beta decay, positron emission, and electron capture. Most of these K nuclei have 19 protons and 21 neutrons and when one proton captures an electron (EC) to become a neutron then 18 protons and 22 neutrons are left and the atom has become Argon-40 the so-called "inert" gas. If the electron has been "borrowed" from the epo (aether) then a positronium is left over OR if the nucleus has emitted a postiron there is also a spare one in the local environs .... This "extra" postitron may be one key to the reactivity of the remainder argon, despite its short lifetime. Another may be the triad e-e+e- or (e-)* ....where the spare positron bonds with two electrons to form (e-)* or however it is formed - but it should not be discounted that the positronium-positive ion, or the transitory muon, coming from reversed-time-argon (of the Larson reciprocal system) - may be involved in the unusual secondary energy of this decays sequence. Another possibility, one might suppose, although I do not recall ever seeing it mentioned is the molecule: proton-electron-postiron-electron, which is like the H2 molecule but with one proton substituted with a positron. Would that postiron have an extended liftetime?? For every hundred 40K atoms that decay, only 11 become Ar-40. This is not much to play with in order to power an ICE, as we are down to one in 100,000 active and then with the billion+ year half-life you are looking at one in every 10^18 active or only about 50,000 per second per ounce of natural potassium hydroxide - which is minicule as an energy resource. OTOH there may be potential ways to dramatically accelerate the rate of decay, if not the relative percentage of the radioactive species. The "24,000 times" deficit mentioned earlier may be a clue as to what is going on... not to mention the "accelerated" part. At any rate - there are surprising links between "inert" Argon and the potassium decay chain leading to OU - some relating to biology. Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 23 17:15:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3O0ErfE019033; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 17:14:54 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3O0Eog3019001; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 17:14:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 17:14:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=iL9TPjizFvara4SFWv5gpbI3J9T3dAy8WLoHJk2WIyqXpdMVUiMEmXoWCiHpFmj7; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006412401431581@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Spargone Powered Engine Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 18:14:31 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9400ca4eeb5c5b0383090eb4e80872ca0eb350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.126 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67746 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones Beene wrote: > > Speaking of the Ocean - not necessarily the Dirac sea, nor the > depth of the imagination - there is the oft-mentioned "Special-K > deficit"... and we're not talking breakfast either. > > Potassium (K) is one of the most abundant elements in the Earth's > crust (2.4% by mass) but only 40 ppm in the ocean - despite its > solubility. Lets see: 40 compared to 24,000 is rather glaring (of > course that is a hyperbolic misuse of statistics - but it helps to > make the point). > > That point being that maybe we have this deficit because the > nucleus is more unstable under 'certain' low-energy circumstances > than the textbooks allow. And no further mention will be made of > Kervan now - but keep in mind that K can arguably be more active > even in biology then the following figures about it, based on > known properties, permit. > OTOH, Jones. That ~ 3.2e10 per square cm per second solar neutrino flux is changing K-40 to stable Calcium-40 wherever it pleases. Fred > > Over one out of every 10,000 Potassium atoms is radioactive: > Potassium-40 - an unstable isotope with a half life of 1.26 > billion years. But there is so much of it in the biota that it > must be a major contributor to genetic damage leading to cancer > and/or occasionally leading to new (better) genes. It can therfore > be considered to be the most important agent of change in all of > life - with the possible exception of UV light. > > Potassium 40 has three decay modes: beta decay, positron emission, > and electron capture. Most of these K nuclei have 19 protons and > 21 neutrons and when one proton captures an electron (EC) to > become a neutron then 18 protons and 22 neutrons are left and the > atom has become Argon-40 the so-called "inert" gas. If the > electron has been "borrowed" from the epo (aether) then a > positronium is left over OR if the nucleus has emitted a postiron > there is also a spare one in the local environs .... > > This "extra" postitron may be one key to the reactivity of the > remainder argon, despite its short lifetime. Another may be the > triad e-e+e- or (e-)* ....where the spare positron bonds with two > electrons to form (e-)* or however it is formed - but it should > not be discounted that the positronium-positive ion, or the > transitory muon, coming from reversed-time-argon (of the Larson > reciprocal system) - may be involved in the unusual secondary > energy of this decays sequence. Another possibility, one might > suppose, although I do not recall ever seeing it mentioned is the > molecule: proton-electron-postiron-electron, which is like the H2 > molecule but with one proton substituted with a positron. Would > that postiron have an extended liftetime?? > > For every hundred 40K atoms that decay, only 11 become Ar-40. This > is not much to play with in order to power an ICE, as we are down > to one in 100,000 active and then with the billion+ year half-life > you are looking at one in every 10^18 active or only about 50,000 > per second per ounce of natural potassium hydroxide - which is > minicule as an energy resource. > > OTOH there may be potential ways to dramatically accelerate the > rate of decay, if not the relative percentage of the radioactive > species. The "24,000 times" deficit mentioned earlier may be a > clue as to what is going on... not to mention the "accelerated" > part. > > At any rate - there are surprising links between "inert" Argon and > the potassium decay chain leading to OU - some relating to > biology. > > Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 23 18:03:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3O13Kn6006198; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 18:03:21 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3O13JHU006176; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 18:03:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 18:03:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 21:03:16 -0400 From: fznidarsic@aol.com Message-Id: <8C835520120B03D-1BE4-19DE@mblk-d46.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 17385 Subject: Re: Spargone Powered Engine Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MailBlocks_8C8355201041405_1BE4_1B3E_mblk-d46.sysops.aol.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 205.188.212.230 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67747 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----------MailBlocks_8C8355201041405_1BE4_1B3E_mblk-d46.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ---- Jones Beene <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:=20 ... > In the few milliseconds available - this can even happen more than=20 > once. The ultimate source of energy is Puthoff's ZPE which in=20 > theory maintains the stability of the k-shell and all the others=20 > "as well". Jones, =20 I have a different idea on this. Frank Znidarsic =20 ref http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chapterb.html =20 =20 THE ATOMIC ENERGY LEVELS=20 Maxwell=E2=80=99s electromagnetic theory predicts that accelerating electron= s should continuously emit electromagnetic radiation. Bound electrons experi= ence a constant centripetal acceleration, however, they do not continuously=20= emit energy. An atom=E2=80=99s electrons emit energy at discrete quantum int= ervals. The emission of such quanta can not be explained with any existing c= lassical theory. Contemporary theory assumes that the gravitational force is= always weak and ignores it. This is a fundamental mistake. During transitio= n, gravitational flux quickly flows between the parent and daughter states.=20= This rapid flow progresses by the way of a strong gravitomagnetic interactio= n. An animation has been provided below that illustrates the mechanics of a=20= the transitional quantum state. A wave is shown propagating along through a=20= series of masses. The spring must be stiff enough to push the masses. The sp= ring constant is equivalent to the strength of a force field. During the qua= ntum transition gravitational flux, electromagnetic flux, and nuclear flux a= re passed from the parent to daughter states. This interaction requires the=20= springs (strengths of the fields ) to be strong and equivalent.=20 ENERGY IN TRANSITION=20 This author=E2=80=99s theorem, =E2=80=9CThe constants of the motion tend tow= ard the electromagnetic in a Bose condensate that is stimulated at a dimensi= onal frequency of 1.094 megahertz-meters=E2=80=9D describes the velocity of=20= the transitional quantum state. It reveals that the energy levels of the ato= m are established as a condition of electromagnetic and gravitational access= ibility.=20 ----------MailBlocks_8C8355201041405_1BE4_1B3E_mblk-d46.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
---= - Jones Beene <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

...

> In th= e few milliseconds available - this can even happen more than
> once.= The ultimate source of energy is Puthoff's ZPE which in
> theory mai= ntains the stability of the k-shell and all the others
> "as well".
Jones,
 
I have a different idea on this.  Frank Znidarsic
 
 
 

THE ATOMIC ENERGY LEVELS

Maxwell=E2=80=99s electromagnetic theory p= redicts that accelerating electrons should continuously emit electromagnetic= radiation. Bound electrons experience a constant centripetal acceleration,=20= however, they do not continuously emit energy. An atom=E2=80=99s electrons e= mit energy at discrete quantum intervals. The emission of such quanta can no= t be explained with any existing classical theory. Contemporary theory assum= es that the gravitational force is always weak and ignores it. This is a fun= damental mistake. During transition, gravitational flux quickly flows betwee= n the parent and daughter states. This rapid flow progresses by the way of a= strong gravitomagnetic interaction. An animation has been provided below th= at illustrates the mechanics of a the transitional quantum state. A wave is=20= shown propagating along through a series of masses. The spring must be stiff= enough to push the masses. The spring constant is equivalent to the strengt= h of a force field. During the quantum transition gravitational flux, electr= omagnetic flux, and nuclear flux are passed from the parent to daughter stat= es. This interaction requires the springs (strengths of the fields ) to be s= trong and equivalent.


<= H4 align=3Dcenter>ENERGY IN TRANSITION
This author=E2=80=99s theore= m, =E2=80=9CThe constants of the motion tend toward the electromagnetic in a= Bose condensate that is stimulated at a dimensional frequency of 1.094 mega= hertz-meters=E2=80=9D describes the velocity of the transitional quantum sta= te. It reveals that the energy levels of the atom are established as a condi= tion of electromagnetic and gravitational accessibility.
= ----------MailBlocks_8C8355201041405_1BE4_1B3E_mblk-d46.sysops.aol.com-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 23 22:20:33 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3O5KPhn024527; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 22:20:26 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3O5KOTG024512; Sun, 23 Apr 2006 22:20:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 22:20:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Spargone Powered Engine Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 15:20:20 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <410-220064023175148576@earthlink.net> <008f01c6672a$7e28d390$6401a8c0@NuDell> In-Reply-To: <008f01c6672a$7e28d390$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta05ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.55.39] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Mon, 24 Apr 2006 05:20:20 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3O5KLvm024487 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67748 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Jones Beene's message of Sun, 23 Apr 2006 16:06:01 -0700: Hi, >Speaking of the Ocean - not necessarily the Dirac sea, nor the >depth of the imagination - there is the oft-mentioned "Special-K >deficit"... and we're not talking breakfast either. > >Potassium (K) is one of the most abundant elements in the Earth's >crust (2.4% by mass) but only 40 ppm in the ocean - despite its >solubility. Lets see: 40 compared to 24,000 is rather glaring (of >course that is a hyperbolic misuse of statistics - but it helps to >make the point). [snip] A "back of the envelope" calculation reveals that the number of Argon atoms in the atmosphere is very close to the number of Potassium atoms in the sea, suggesting a possible balance between them (where each is continually being converted into the other). A simplistic explanation is that much Ar40 may actually be K39 with a "chemically" bound hydrinohydride attached. The bond strength would be at most 70 eV, allowing for slow but regular exchange. As "Argon" it is chemically inert, and hence gaseous, while without the hydrinohydride, it reverts to true Potassium and once again becomes an ion ending up back in the water. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 24 00:22:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3O7MIBp028551; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 00:22:19 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3O7MGSL028531; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 00:22:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 00:22:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A blast in Ohio Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 17:22:11 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <410-2200640231383958@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <410-2200640231383958@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta02ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.55.39] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Mon, 24 Apr 2006 07:22:12 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3O7MCrf028504 Resent-Message-ID: <9Ic8SD.A.v9G.oyHTEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67749 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Frederick Sparber's message of Sat, 22 Apr 2006 19:38:39 -0600: Hi, [snip] >Good. Another point to consider is H3O+ + e- ----> (H3O*) >a "Pre-Hydrino" Species. >Remember, a gram of H2O evaporated at sub-atmospheric pressure occupies >more than 2 liters, which could isolate the (H3O*) until it can react to >form >the hydrino in the combustion chamber, concurrently (endothermally) >disrupting >it's H2O carrier portion setting off more reaction pathways. [snip] Perhaps, but how stable is H3O*? I would expect the gas to collapse as:- 2 H3O* -> 2 H2O + H2. ...and this mechanism doesn't explain how the "essence" of the cell can penetrate an Al plate to enter the carburetor, while H[n<1/25] could do that easily. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 24 00:55:06 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3O7stlu006006; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 00:54:55 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3O7srNi005965; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 00:54:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 00:54:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=W5Am7mQYrNeXT9/ulDe5bkRoZd6ZvKSB1B3L1ggrC9rVNUPj6QbbPpvkE4GcJk3J; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006412475439119@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A blast in Ohio Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 01:54:39 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940825f36e239dc11f7ac2ee6bf957d33a9350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.215 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67750 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote. > > In reply to Frederick Sparber's message of Sat, 22 Apr 2006 > 19:38:39 -0600: > Hi, > [snip] > >Good. Another point to consider is H3O+ + e- ----> (H3O*) > >a "Pre-Hydrino" Species. > >Remember, a gram of H2O evaporated at sub-atmospheric pressure occupies > >more than 2 liters, which could isolate the (H3O*) until it can react to > >form > >the hydrino in the combustion chamber, concurrently (endothermally) > >disrupting > >it's H2O carrier portion setting off more reaction pathways. > [snip] > Perhaps, but how stable is H3O*? I would expect the gas to > collapse as:- > > 2 H3O* -> 2 H2O + H2. > Nope. Actually at ~ 0.6 inches Hg "soft vacuum" evaporation of one gram of water occupies ~ 62 liters, and the cylinder conditions triggers the " H[n<1/25]" energy reaction. > > ...and this mechanism doesn't explain how the "essence" of the > cell can penetrate an Al plate to enter the carburetor, while > H[n<1/25] could do that easily. > The H2O-n(H3O*) vapor travels part way inside an aluminum tube connected to the intake manifold with a rubber hose used to insulated the positive (anode-battery) voltage from negative ground. No wall-penetrating "aliens" involved here. :-) OTOH. the Microvaving Wet Bricks experiment suggests that the Argon in the air trapped in the bricks reacts with/catalyzes the (H3O*) formed from contact of the water with the brick "interstices" setting off your/Mills' proposed Hydrino Reaction. OTOH II, how many KW-Hrs might one expect from a bottle of Argon gas and a few liters of water set off by a microwave pulse in the cylinders of an ICE turning a generator? Fred > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ > > Competition provides the motivation, > Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 24 01:20:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3O8Jwa4013501; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 01:19:58 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3O8JvIF013488; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 01:19:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 01:19:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=L5t2L5dlQbOUhthMam6msRbhP0d/DLWMonqE4hc1LQuUw+UNpBKwjfSwT5SWU9BH; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006412481944879@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: A blast in Ohio Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 02:19:44 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94043aa8b15474bc65ce8b204fef254980b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.73 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67751 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > Robin van Spaandonk wrote. > > > > In reply to Frederick Sparber's message of Sat, 22 Apr 2006 > > 19:38:39 -0600: > > Hi, > > > Nope. Actually at ~ 0.6 inches Hg "soft vacuum" evaporation of > one gram of water occupies ~ 62 liters, and the cylinder conditions > triggers the " H[n<1/25]" energy reaction. > > > > ...and this mechanism doesn't explain how the "essence" of the > > cell can penetrate an Al plate to enter the carburetor, while > > H[n<1/25] could do that easily. > > > Speaking of "essence" diffusing through the aluminum top of the Joe Cell, Electronium (*e-) could be the "essence" and the aluminum top acts as an electropositive separator that conveys it into the cell where it can form the (H3O*) entity. > > The H2O-n(H3O*) vapor travels part way inside an aluminum > tube connected to the intake manifold with a rubber hose used to > insulated the positive (anode-battery) voltage from negative ground. > > No wall-penetrating "aliens" involved here. :-) > > OTOH. the Microvaving Wet Bricks experiment suggests > that the Argon in the air trapped in the bricks reacts with/catalyzes the > (H3O*) formed from contact of the water with the brick > "interstices" setting off your/Mills' proposed Hydrino Reaction. > > OTOH II, how many KW-Hrs might one expect from > a bottle of Argon gas and a few liters of water > set off by a microwave pulse in the cylinders of an ICE > turning a generator? > > Fred > > > > Regards, > > > > Robin van Spaandonk > > > > http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ > > > > Competition provides the motivation, > > Cooperation provides the means. > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 24 01:47:55 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3O8liRC021714; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 01:47:45 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3O8lhnw021696; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 01:47:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 01:47:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=jizJfetsbnlVzKuUxpgJd6tLLl+sK3y/keh0ceSQPzzppHAASzi9W3940zOVAU3U; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006412484731889@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: A blast in Ohio Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 02:47:31 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9401e474ab8cc0a91896e61d85eb8853d37350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.138 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67752 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > From: Frederick Sparber \ > > Speaking of "essence" diffusing through the aluminum top of > the Joe Cell, Electronium (*e-) could be the "essence" and > the aluminum top acts as an electropositive separator that > conveys it into the cell where it can form the (H3O*) entity. > > > > The H2O-n(H3O*) vapor travels part way inside an aluminum > > tube connected to the intake manifold with a rubber hose used to > > insulated the positive (anode-battery) voltage from negative ground. > > > I'll get it right yet, Robin. The superficial oxide on the aluminum allows absorption of the Electronium (*e-) "essence" into the highly conductive aluminum where it can get absorbed by the H3O+ to form (H3O*) or it can drift as a conduction electron by being "pumped" around the electrical circuit by the battery potential/current. Essentially, That is it. :-) I need to getting back to watching the movie "Home On The Range" where three Cow Girls, Actually Girl Cows save the ranch from a bad guy.. It's quite animated too. :-) Fred From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 24 07:04:50 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3OE4YW7004937; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 07:04:34 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3OE4WNr004918; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 07:04:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 07:04:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=bMirpE3K/8pEOs4r6Uvrad/pq5YWGsaEFKZ6AaQEwbgYwUpG0+8YOinLOSuNemBH; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006412414412856@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Reich's Orgone Accumulator Plans Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 08:04:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940f5c4aa837ad28de25d9162c7e5b34dd7350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.120.230 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67753 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Reminiscent of the WPA-built outhouse we had on a farm my dad bought right after WW II started. The corrugated tin roof spaces between it and the frame allowed escape of "essence". Newsprint and the old Sears catalog served as "Charmin". The "accumulator" was a hole in the ground beneath the precast concrete floor that made it easy to discern which was one's buttocks. http://www.orgone.org/articles/ax2001-grnfld-aa.htm I see no connection with the Joe Cell here. Close to a Faraday Box. though. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Reminiscent of the WPA-built outhouse we had on a farm
my dad bought right after WW II started.
The corrugated tin roof spaces between it and the frame
allowed escape of "essence".
 
Newsprint and the old Sears catalog served as "Charmin".
 
The "accumulator" was a hole in the ground beneath the
precast concrete floor that made it easy to discern which
was one's buttocks.
 
 
I see no connection with the Joe Cell here.
 
Close to a Faraday Box. though.
 
Fred
 
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 24 08:30:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3OFUPG5008601; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 08:30:25 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3OFUKle008552; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 08:30:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 08:30:20 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <004601c667b3$fb7bf690$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <410-220064023175148576@earthlink.net> <008f01c6672a$7e28d390$6401a8c0@NuDell> Subject: Special-K Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 08:30:13 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67754 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin, > A simplistic explanation is that much Ar40 may actually be K39 > with a "chemically" bound hydrinohydride attached. The bond > strength would be at most 70 eV, allowing for slow but regular > exchange. As "Argon" it is chemically inert, and hence gaseous, > while without the hydrinohydride, it reverts to true Potassium > and > once again becomes an ion ending up back in the water. I like this! ... But the 70 eV is probably in error in the end-product - that applies to the initial hydride bond which becomes moot once absorbed. This would likely happen very quickly in the oceans. It would seem that solar-derived hydrinos (of high shrinkage) will certainly accumulate in the oceans of Earth over geologic time (if they are real - and produced in the solar corona - then this process is a given). The potassium preferentially bonds with them, but due to the small radius they lodge well within the electron cloud - perhaps mostly at the normal k-shell radius WRT the nucleus. ERGO that is EXACTLY why you get this typical k-shell energy level of 3672 eV - and subsequent Auger cascade - when the hydrino is forced out by applied energy, as in the numerous laser implosion studies which show this. This is the critical detail and proof. Mainstream science is calling it "efficient" radiation. HA ! If they only knew ! Cool. It now seems so obvious. I can't believe that Mills himself has missed this !! Now - if we could just figure out how to enrich this entity from normal Argon gas. It would be the same size and atomic weight, but possibly not quite as chemically inert, even though the outer shell is technically full. However - it should have a vastly different magnetic moment. >From the spectra in this studies, I would guess that it must exist in the 100 ppm range of the normal gaseous Argon which is bought from a supplier. Get that up to 1% and you've got one heck of a fuel - certainly manufacturable at home for automotive and home power... but (sadly ;-) eliminating the middleman... And that is why this info needs to be put in the public domain ASAP. Better yet: Get it up to 100% and you've got the ways-and-means for interstellar space travel ... ... say, maybe that is why this whole thing has been semi-officially ignored by the powers-that-be...and, say, what is that silent black helicopter doing outside my window this morning? Before I am neutralized (and be glad you are in Oz) let me ask. What shall we call this fraction of normal Argon - "Special-K" ? "Hy-K" ? "K2R" ? Wow. This is most interesting... Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 24 08:43:34 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3OFh8uH014506; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 08:43:09 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3OFgwPO014450; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 08:42:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 08:42:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-IronPort-AV: i="4.04,152,1144036800"; d="scan'208"; a="170608065:sNHT579634780" Message-ID: <19383881.1145893366332.JavaMail.root@fepweb11> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 8:42:46 -0700 From: OrionWorks To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Special-K Cc: orionworks@charter.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Sensitivity: Normal Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67755 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: From: Jones Beene [mailto:jonesb9@pacbell.net] ... > Cool. It now seems so obvious. I can't believe that > Mills himself has missed this !! Wouldn't it be appropriate for someone with credentials [possibly you, Terry, etc...] to write up some of the details and post it in the alternative SCQM discussion group? It's been kinda quiet over there for a spell. Perhaps it's time to stir things up a bit. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 24 09:19:04 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3OGIVpX032224; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:18:32 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3OGISjc032187; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:18:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:18:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <005901c667ba$b4c38bd0$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: Cc: References: <19383881.1145893366332.JavaMail.root@fepweb11> Subject: Re: Special-K Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:18:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67756 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Steven, >> Cool. It now seems so obvious. I can't believe that >> Mills himself has missed this !! > Wouldn't it be appropriate ... to write up some of the details > and post it in the alternative SCQM discussion group? Not just yet, please. There are tests that can be done immediately to disprove the idea. And I don't mean this in the wrong way, but if it were to be accurate - Mills would probably try to add it to an existing patent or application and say he knew about it all along. Matter of fact - I am firing off a DD (Disclosure Document) to PTO today to prevent anyone from doing just that. If this is accurate - it should be available freely to all, as it is a natural phenomenon - and not to be commandeered by others - even if they are responsible for initiating the base-concept and underlying idea of the hydrino. Of course, all indications are that this could NOT be correct - or else others would already have realized it some time ago. These laser implosion results go back twenty years and there are very intelligent people still doing it. I suspect that if accurate, this has been part of a "black" project for some time. I wasn't being entirely silly-paranoid in previous post. Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 24 09:31:14 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3OGU6u7009648; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:30:58 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3OGQs5Y007347; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:26:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:26:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Qeohe/DrGphhbcAN6obA5qOnjtimefm3DCjo+mBUtWmkdFtx+hsqJ60SBEcKl6gu; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064124162624491@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Special-K Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 10:26:24 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94095342ec67a319e0d3cdd73f5d03bc70a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.250 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67757 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: How do you plan to get Non-Existant Argon-41 out of Mass 2 (already energy depleted) out of "Hydrinohydride" ? > [Original Message] > From: Jones Beene > To: > Date: 4/24/2006 9:30:58 AM > Subject: Special-K > > Robin, > > > A simplistic explanation is that much Ar40 may actually be K39 > > with a "chemically" bound hydrinohydride attached. The bond > > strength would be at most 70 eV, allowing for slow but regular > > exchange. As "Argon" it is chemically inert, and hence gaseous, > > while without the hydrinohydride, it reverts to true Potassium > > and > > once again becomes an ion ending up back in the water. > > > I like this! ... But the 70 eV is probably in error in the > end-product - that applies to the initial hydride bond which > becomes moot once absorbed. This would likely happen very quickly > in the oceans. > > It would seem that solar-derived hydrinos (of high shrinkage) will > certainly accumulate in the oceans of Earth over geologic time (if > they are real - and produced in the solar corona - then this > process is a given). The potassium preferentially bonds with them, > but due to the small radius they lodge well within the electron > cloud - perhaps mostly at the normal k-shell radius WRT the > nucleus. > > ERGO that is EXACTLY why you get this typical k-shell energy level > of 3672 eV - and subsequent Auger cascade - when the hydrino is > forced out by applied energy, as in the numerous laser implosion > studies which show this. This is the critical detail and proof. > > Mainstream science is calling it "efficient" radiation. HA ! If > they only knew ! > > Cool. It now seems so obvious. I can't believe that Mills himself > has missed this !! > > Now - if we could just figure out how to enrich this entity from > normal Argon gas. It would be the same size and atomic weight, but > possibly not quite as chemically inert, even though the outer > shell is technically full. However - it should have a vastly > different magnetic moment. > > From the spectra in this studies, I would guess that it must exist > in the 100 ppm range of the normal gaseous Argon which is bought > from a supplier. Get that up to 1% and you've got one heck of a > fuel - certainly manufacturable at home for automotive and home > power... but (sadly ;-) eliminating the middleman... And that is > why this info needs to be put in the public domain ASAP. > > Better yet: Get it up to 100% and you've got the ways-and-means > for interstellar space travel ... > > ... say, maybe that is why this whole thing has been > semi-officially ignored by the powers-that-be...and, say, what is > that silent black helicopter doing outside my window this morning? > > Before I am neutralized (and be glad you are in Oz) let me ask. > What shall we call this fraction of normal Argon - "Special-K" ? > "Hy-K" ? "K2R" ? > > Wow. This is most interesting... > > Jones > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 24 09:46:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3OGjpTJ017977; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:45:51 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3OGjfQ4017826; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:45:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:45:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <008001c667be$8203c490$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <410-220064124162624491@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Special-K Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:45:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67758 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" > How do you plan to get Non-Existant Argon-41 > out of Mass 2 (already energy depleted) out > of "Hydrinohydride" ? Fred, The "hydrino hydride" of Mills is NOT two bound hydrinos, nor a proton and a bound hydrino - despite the name. It is normally a negative ion of one hydrino and an extra electron, which is stable, or an alkali with a bound hydino instead of proton. We are going from 39K to 40Ar ... and not Argon-41, although I can see why you are confused. Mills should never have used this terminology. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 24 09:46:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3OGjpkX017988; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:45:52 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3OGjlp2017913; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:45:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:45:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060424124521.03e79890@mindspring.com> Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060424122441.03ede940@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:45:29 -0400 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Record week at LENR-CANR Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <-slbO.A.hXE.5CQTEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67759 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Last week a new record was set for downloads at LENR-CANR. Here is recent data: Week Downloads Visits 03/04/06 3,364 3,369 03/11/06 4,455 6,831 03/18/06 4,244 6,641 03/25/06 5,171 7,230 04/01/06 5,010 6,089 04/08/06 5,360 5,525 04/15/06 5,046 5,268 04/22/06 7,987 5,974 04/24/06 1,351 1,136 (this week so far) "Downloads" are Acrobat files, not HTML screens, photos etc. The number of visits was about the same as it has been, but visits this year are up. Weekly average visits for 2006 are 5,467 versus 3,947 for the last four months of 2006. I hope increased traffic indicates more public interest in cold fusion. However, three other factors have contributed to it: 1. In recent weeks visitors have downloaded an average of 1.0 Acrobat files per visit, whereas last week they downloaded 1.3. This may be because more people are using automatic download robots such as WebReaper. 2. On the introduction screen I pointed out that you can access the library folder directly: http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/. This may also have facilitated easy access to the site, and encouraged people to download multiple files. 3. I have added 63 papers this year, bringing the total up to 541. When people download papers en masse, they end up downloading more than ever before. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 24 09:57:19 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3OGv1rB024899; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:57:02 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3OGv05N024863; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:57:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:57:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=FobK062xo7wgEZXzAMLKmXIAoc7CPIoV4BsXCwWeE+erQxmTi/bzoI4Jm0F4ogYH; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064124165645933@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Special-K Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 10:56:45 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94089bf2679639f7e6cb083916df8e992da350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.97 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67760 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones, Anyhow my/Mills original version coupled to Argon-38 makes Potassium-40 a Special-K too. :-) Fred > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frederick Sparber" > > > > How do you plan to get Non-Existant Argon-41 > > out of Mass 2 (already energy depleted) out > > of "Hydrinohydride" ? > > > Fred, > > The "hydrino hydride" of Mills is NOT two bound hydrinos, nor a > proton and a bound hydrino - despite the name. > > It is normally a negative ion of one hydrino and an extra > electron, which is stable, or an alkali with a bound hydino > instead of proton. > > We are going from 39K to 40Ar ... and not Argon-41, although I can > see why you are confused. Mills should never have used this > terminology. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 24 10:08:02 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3OH7eIF029642; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 10:07:40 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3OH7bR9029625; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 10:07:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 10:07:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=NatHKjS8TIS5gojQhmCcmK/8KI6OLmZ0pXrrfzjOH5xKKxtSj0nREKhcjNeDcwtm; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006412417725653@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Special-K Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:07:25 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9400ee523f1c531eac770df1c4a9c5ce8d9350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.97 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67761 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Follow up question, Jones. Where is that other atom-molecule with a positive charge created by that "negative ion of one hydrino and an extra electron" ? Fred > > Jones, > > Anyhow my/Mills original version coupled to Argon-38 makes > Potassium-40 a Special-K too. :-) > > Fred > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Frederick Sparber" > > > > > > > How do you plan to get Non-Existant Argon-41 > > > out of Mass 2 (already energy depleted) out > > > of "Hydrinohydride" ? > > > > > > Fred, > > > > The "hydrino hydride" of Mills is NOT two bound hydrinos, nor a > > proton and a bound hydrino - despite the name. > > > > It is normally a negative ion of one hydrino and an extra > > electron, which is stable, or an alkali with a bound hydino > > instead of proton. > > > > We are going from 39K to 40Ar ... and not Argon-41, although I can > > see why you are confused. Mills should never have used this > > terminology. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 24 11:10:50 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3OIAaI4022613; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:10:37 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3OIAYTT022588; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:10:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:10:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00c701c667ca$5cbd1c70$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex-l" References: <410-22006412417725653@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Special-K Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:10:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67762 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" > Where is that other atom-molecule with a positive charge created > by that "negative ion of one hydrino and an extra electron" ? no problema... 1) the oceans do sit atop a rather substantial "ground" and are quite conductive 2) the "fair weather field" From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 24 11:35:17 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3OIYv4o000320; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:34:57 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3OIYtqf032750; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:34:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:34:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=rx1+zWmDT5iM0M7SojOqJyOFiOiPmQZTafAGsuQJ8T0Tf615jFJlMZBuiCCpbKEj; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064124183437982@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Special-K Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:34:37 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94043d9614750aeedb0ce059836aae5b9d4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.120.232 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67763 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones Beene writes. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frederick Sparber" > > > Where is that other atom-molecule with a positive charge created > > by that "negative ion of one hydrino and an extra electron" ? > > no problema... > > 1) the oceans do sit atop a rather substantial "ground" and are > quite conductive > > 2) the "fair weather field" > And enough "Special-K" in a bottle to get a kilowatt will have a coulomb of negative charge setting off Jovian Thunderbolts wrt either. :-) No thanks. I'll settle for a Practical, Reported, Anecdotal, Purported, Supposed; and Putatively working Joe Cell. Fred From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 24 12:07:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3OJ6tOs017608; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:06:56 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3OJ6sES017582; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:06:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:06:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00fc01c667d2$3d6f1140$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <410-220064124183437982@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Special-K Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:06:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67764 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: No you misunderstand: > And enough "Special-K" in a bottle to get a kilowatt > will have a coulomb of negative charge setting off > Jovian Thunderbolts wrt either. :-) The hydino hydride has only a net transitory charge until that short time that it gets taken into the orbit of the potassium ion in the oceans - which it neutralizes into Special-K if the shrinkage of the hydrino is high enough - but either of which (gas or solid) is an UNCHARGED species. Mills has vials of this stuff for demonstration (the potassium therein has only the slightly shrunken hydrinos, not the very high shrinkage variety). Thus it has not gasified. It has zero net charge and very unusual NMR properties. This is important to know. It becomes Special-K (Argon) only nearer to the maximum shrinkage (in my original post) - although it seems that Robin is suggesting that a peak at 3672 would equate to a shrinkage level of 16-17 - which just happens to be the level at which hydrinohydride formation enthalpy is at a maximum. That is another reason why this is all fitting together rather nicely. That is because in this alternative view - the forming of Hy(1/16) would take place in the solar corona - not here. Only the substitution happens here. This does not mean that it is an 'either/or' situation in some of these anecdotal accounts - not that more than one modality cannot be happening in some of the fringe accounts. But they are always open to fraud and hearsay. However, my focus (trying to sound rather pompous today) is on finding *real proof,* and mainstream science has given us real proof of "efficient radiation" in Argon. Everyone seems to be glossing over this important detail. It is critical to my argument. Everything in the other accounts, like the Joe Cell is anecdotal at best... and fully-loaded Aussies pouring 100 proof alcohol into balloons and Joe Cells is better left to happy-hour speculation. ....Not that there's anything wrong with happy hour.... Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 24 12:27:20 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3OJR8hA027725; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:27:08 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3OJR7Mc027713; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:27:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:27:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 15:27:04 -0400 Message-Id: <8C835EC34096B8B-2658-998@mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <19383881.1145893366332.JavaMail.root@fepweb11> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <19383881.1145893366332.JavaMail.root@fepweb11> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Special-K Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.130 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67765 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: OrionWorks Wouldn't it be appropriate for someone with credentials [possibly you, Terry, etc...] to write up some of the details and post it in the alternative SCQM discussion group? <><><><><><><> I am not a nukulear engineer; although, I do have a personalized signed photo of Jimah Carter from when my wife did a loan for James Earl "Chip" Carter. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 24 12:54:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3OJsPuS006451; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:54:25 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3OJsL18006401; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:54:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:54:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2006-03-10) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.6 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Message-ID: <000a01c667d8$da3a79a0$63037841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: Re: Reich's Orgone Accumulator Plans Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 14:54:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C667AE.F0A874A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67766 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C667AE.F0A874A0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0007_01C667AE.F0A9FB40" ------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C667AE.F0A9FB40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankFred wrote.. >Reminiscent of the WPA-built outhouse we had on a farm my dad bought right after WW II started.=20 The corrugated tin roof spaces between it and the frame allowed escape of "essence". Newsprint and the old Sears catalog served as "Charmin". The "accumulator" was a hole in the ground beneath the precast concrete floor that made it easy to discern which=20 was one's buttocks. Howdy Fred.. You have a good memory for details. We have one of the few remaining WPA = outhouses remaining in Fayette county Texas.The work of art was = constructed by local German and Czech folks back around 1936 and has a = galvanized roof, well constructed of wood. Concrete floor and commode, = wooden toilet seat that raises on hinge. A vertical concrete tile riser = pipe from floor through roof provides the " venting". A cutout star in = lieu of a halfmoon in the top endwall,, shows more class.The barn always = faced the road so anyone riding past could count the number of stalls. = People set store on a barn with more than 4 stalls because it indicated = prosperity. Now people drive Lexus to show off. Alas, the times have passed! Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C667AE.F0A9FB40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Fred wrote..
 
>Reminiscent of the = WPA-built outhouse=20 we had on a farm
my dad bought right after WW = II started.=20
The corrugated tin roof = spaces between it=20 and the frame
allowed escape of = "essence".
 
Newsprint and the old Sears = catalog=20 served as "Charmin".
 
The "accumulator" was a hole = in the=20 ground beneath the
precast concrete floor that = made it=20 easy to discern which =
was one's = buttocks.

Howdy Fred..

You have a good memory for details. We have one of the few remaining = WPA=20 outhouses remaining in Fayette county Texas.The work of art was = constructed by=20 local German and Czech folks back around 1936 and has a galvanized = roof,=20 well constructed of wood. Concrete floor and commode, wooden toilet seat = that=20 raises on hinge. A vertical concrete tile riser pipe from floor through = roof=20 provides the " venting". A cutout star in lieu of a halfmoon in the top=20 endwall,, shows more class.The barn always faced the road so anyone = riding past=20 could count the number of stalls. People set store on a barn with more = than 4=20 stalls because it indicated prosperity. Now people drive Lexus to show = off.

Alas, the times have passed!

Richard

------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C667AE.F0A9FB40-- ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C667AE.F0A874A0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000501c667d8$d96f3a60$63037841@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C667AE.F0A874A0-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 24 17:03:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3P02nEf008562; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 17:02:49 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3P02laD008543; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 17:02:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 17:02:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 20:02:43 -0400 Message-Id: <8C83612B627DEA0-2B10-75D@mblkn-m06.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <000a01c667d8$da3a79a0$63037841@xptower> <6.1.1.1.1.20060424162321.01d9c080@pop> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.1.20060424162321.01d9c080@pop> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Reich's Orgone Accumulator Plans Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.70 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3P02jsV008521 Resent-Message-ID: <5Aa6VC.A.WFC.mcWTEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67768 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Philip Winestone In Glasgow, we didn't have toilets; kept it all in.  For years...decades. <><><><><><> Always knew you blokes were full of it. :-) http://geocities.com/terry1094/Blanton_Privy1.jpg My grandfather built it from lumber from his own saw mill. Dug the hole, he did. I did my best to fill it. Terry PS In the foreground, you'll find clothes pins . . . for a clothes line . . . the ancient solar technology. ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 24 19:15:21 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3P2FAFN023050; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 19:15:11 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3P2F9rW023032; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 19:15:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 19:15:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <20060424211410.olvkaafhckk08884@webmail.usfamily.net> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 21:14:10 -0500 From: temalloy@usfamily.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Rodin's aerodynamics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.2) Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67770 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I met the author of these websites at the Tesla Society meetings 12 years ago. I purchased a copy of this book. His ideas make beautiful art, but will they make workable technology? >http://www.rodinmath.com > > http://www.rodinaerodynamics.org > > http://www.rodinmath.com/marko_pictures.html > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 24 19:39:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3P2dXBt032283; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 19:39:33 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3P2dVxD032270; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 19:39:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 19:39:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 22:39:28 -0400 Message-Id: <8C836289BE930FE-2698-1441@mblkn-m11.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <000a01c667d8$da3a79a0$63037841@xptower> <6.1.1.1.1.20060424162321.01d9c080@pop> <8C83612B627DEA0-2B10-75D@mblkn-m06.sysops.aol.com> <6.1.1.1.1.20060424204756.01d80ff8@pop> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.1.20060424204756.01d80ff8@pop> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Reich's Orgone Accumulator Plans Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.129 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3P2dUhL032255 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67771 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Philip Winestone LOL - On my own admission...  <><><><><> Thanks for taking it correctly. Best, T ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 24 21:00:40 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3P40Sc2032203; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 21:00:28 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3P40QIo032179; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 21:00:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 21:00:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 00:00:52 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: OT: Cold fusion...of a kind. ;-) To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67772 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Cold fusion...of a kind. ;-) This evening I was drinking a glass of water with two ice cubes. The ice cubes went into the glass separately. The water and ice sat undisturbed for a while. The two ice cubes fused together as they melted. Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 24 21:09:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3P49LPZ003433; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 21:09:22 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3P49Kxt003418; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 21:09:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 21:09:20 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060424211213.02e28008@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 21:12:23 -0700 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: Re: OT: Cold fusion...of a kind. ;-) In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67773 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Publish! At 10:00 PM 4/24/2006, you wrote: >Cold fusion...of a kind. ;-) > >This evening I was drinking a glass of water with two ice cubes. >The ice cubes went into the glass separately. The water and ice >sat undisturbed for a while. The two ice cubes fused together as they >melted. > > >Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 24 21:14:21 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3P4EBD2005337; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 21:14:11 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3P4E828005317; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 21:14:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 21:14:08 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A blast in Ohio Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:14:06 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <7l7r421gliq1maicj9320rj6327hsfiu2o@4ax.com> References: <410-22006412475439119@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <410-22006412475439119@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta01sl.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.55.39] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Tue, 25 Apr 2006 04:14:05 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3P4E60Z005293 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67774 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Frederick Sparber's message of Mon, 24 Apr 2006 01:54:39 -0600: Hi, [snip] >> Perhaps, but how stable is H3O*? I would expect the gas to >> collapse as:- >> >> 2 H3O* -> 2 H2O + H2. >> >Nope. Actually at ~ 0.6 inches Hg "soft vacuum" evaporation of >one gram of water occupies ~ 62 liters, and the cylinder conditions >triggers the " H[n<1/25]" energy reaction. Oh, come on Fred, "Nope" is not an answer. [snip] >> >> ...and this mechanism doesn't explain how the "essence" of the >> cell can penetrate an Al plate to enter the carburetor, while >> H[n<1/25] could do that easily. >> >The H2O-n(H3O*) vapor travels part way inside an aluminum >tube connected to the intake manifold with a rubber hose used to >insulated the positive (anode-battery) voltage from negative ground. > >No wall-penetrating "aliens" involved here. :-) That's precisely the problem. In Joe's original engine, AFAIK the Aluminium tube butted up against the side of the intake manifold (no hole). IOW, whatever came out of the cell had to pass through solid metal to enter the air stream. H3O* wouldn't be able to do this, whereas e.g H[n=1/26] could easily. BTW I presume your "light leptons" could too. > >OTOH. the Microvaving Wet Bricks experiment suggests >that the Argon in the air trapped in the bricks reacts with/catalyzes the >(H3O*) formed from contact of the water with the brick >"interstices" setting off your/Mills' proposed Hydrino Reaction. Wet bricks get hot in microwave ovens because they contain water molecules. Dry bricks don't get hot, because in a solid lattice there is very little freedom of movement for charged particles, as opposed to the considerable freedom available to dipolar molecules in a liquid. > >OTOH II, how many KW-Hrs might one expect from >a bottle of Argon gas and a few liters of water >set off by a microwave pulse in the cylinders of an ICE >turning a generator? This is close to what we wanted try a few years back. Unfortunately, the engine seals leaked like a sieve. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 24 21:17:50 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3P4HeX8007006; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 21:17:40 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3P4HdGc006990; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 21:17:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 21:17:39 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: A blast in Ohio Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:17:38 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <410-22006412481944879@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <410-22006412481944879@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta03sl.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.55.39] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Tue, 25 Apr 2006 04:17:37 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3P4HbHs006967 Resent-Message-ID: <306HI.A.ItB.jLaTEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67775 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Frederick Sparber's message of Mon, 24 Apr 2006 02:19:44 -0600: Hi, [snip] >Speaking of "essence" diffusing through the aluminum top of >the Joe Cell, Electronium (*e-) could be the "essence" and >the aluminum top acts as an electropositive separator that >conveys it into the cell where it can form the (H3O*) entity. [snip] Maybe, but the lifetime of electronium is way to short, and it's going in the wrong direction. H3O* in the cell isn't going to make any difference to what's going on in the engine. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 24 21:48:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3P4mYQV016898; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 21:48:34 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3P4mWHW016877; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 21:48:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 21:48:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Special-K Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:48:26 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <19383881.1145893366332.JavaMail.root@fepweb11> <005901c667ba$b4c38bd0$6401a8c0@NuDell> In-Reply-To: <005901c667ba$b4c38bd0$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta04sl.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.55.39] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Tue, 25 Apr 2006 04:48:25 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3P4mOub016839 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67776 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Jones Beene's message of Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:18:21 -0700: Hi, [snip] >Steven, > >>> Cool. It now seems so obvious. I can't believe that >>> Mills himself has missed this !! > >> Wouldn't it be appropriate ... to write up some of the details >> and post it in the alternative SCQM discussion group? > > >Not just yet, please. > >There are tests that can be done immediately to disprove the idea. >And I don't mean this in the wrong way, but if it were to be >accurate - Mills would probably try to add it to an existing >patent or application and say he knew about it all along. [snip] One rather obvious problem is that about 7% of Potassium is K41, which with embedded hydrinohydride would result in Ar42, which one might therefore expect to be some percentage of Ar. However to the best of my knowledge, there is no Ar42. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 24 22:03:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3P53TCL022471; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 22:03:29 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3P53Rr2022440; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 22:03:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 22:03:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Special-K Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 15:03:22 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <410-220064023175148576@earthlink.net> <008f01c6672a$7e28d390$6401a8c0@NuDell> <004601c667b3$fb7bf690$6401a8c0@NuDell> In-Reply-To: <004601c667b3$fb7bf690$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta04ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.55.39] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Tue, 25 Apr 2006 05:03:21 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3P53P5o022372 Resent-Message-ID: <43nVO.A.ieF.f2aTEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67777 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Jones Beene's message of Mon, 24 Apr 2006 08:30:13 -0700: Hi, [snip] >I like this! ... But the 70 eV is probably in error in the >end-product - that applies to the initial hydride bond which >becomes moot once absorbed. I don't think it is moot. The problem is that as hydrinohydride approaches the nucleus of another atom (e.g. K39), it starts to feel an ever increasing positive external field. At some point the external field on the second electron overpowers the magnetic force binding it to the first electron. It may be naive of me, but I rather expected this to occur at about the same energy level, which is why I suggested 70 eV. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 25 02:14:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3P9EI1J007735; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 02:14:19 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3P9EGXk007707; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 02:14:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 02:14:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=EqhDe8UzLfYFbLMiUpuTW3lzlkO/dvEPaNNT5fBu6dpmbT5vsvVccATWxVQ4m/Uu; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200642259144598@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A blast in Ohio Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 03:14:04 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940b0cf061444071d1b896acc8c3da51e96350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.45 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67778 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Robin. Re: Microwaving Wet Bricks. Bricks are a cheap and handy source for Molecular Sieves or Ion Exchange, Zeolites. You can break them with a hammer, or you can use your head....... to find something else to use.. The pore volume can run from 12% to 22%. and the pore size can vary from a few angstroms up, and they can be doped with Potassium Cations simply by soaking them in Red Devil Potassium Lye. The tests I did on microwaving them dry and wet several years ago strongly suggests that something out of the ordinary was going on. The trapped Air/Argon in them may be a factor that wasn't considered at the time. My residence has a red brick veneer with thousands of them but, I'm reluctant about dislodging one of them to make my point. :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Robin.
Re: Microwaving Wet Bricks.
 
Bricks are a  cheap and handy source for Molecular Sieves
or Ion Exchange, Zeolites.
You can break them with a hammer, or you can use your head.......
to find something else to use..
 
The pore volume can run from 12% to 22%. and the pore
size can vary from a few angstroms up, and they can be doped
with Potassium Cations simply  by soaking them in Red Devil Potassium
Lye.
The tests I did on microwaving them dry and wet several
years ago strongly suggests that something out of
the ordinary was going on.
The trapped Air/Argon in them may be a factor that wasn't
considered at the time.
My residence has a red brick veneer with thousands of them
but, I'm reluctant about dislodging one of them to make my point. :-)
 
Fred
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 25 03:37:56 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3PAbiMR004749; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 03:37:44 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3PAbggp004732; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 03:37:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 03:37:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=NlcmDkOREyjzXcu49+xfoB+nQLtgNq5ombdCGVqrRrrswMjxD7HGPvGzyr6k2Nti; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064225103727986@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: A blast in Ohio Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 04:37:27 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940fd525ae8d78e139867c822fc1360dcaf350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.241 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67779 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Then there are the proverbial "Exploding Rocks" and Volcano Bombs. that might be erroneously explained by "conventional wisdom" too. Is this Bill Beaty that wrote this? http://www.hhydr.com/light-bulb-explosion-1538416.html William J Beaty Oct 18, 2004 14:07 >I stumbled across the explanation under a Britannica entry for Argon. Manufacturers put argon in light bulbs as an inert fill gas. Unfortunately argon has a low breakdown voltage, so if the filament burns out, an arc will leap across the broken ends. So, manufacturers put some nitrogen in the argon to raise the breakdown voltage. But sometimes an arc will strike across the broken filament ends. When this occurs, the normal "yellow" light bulb color will turn brilliant blue-white for a moment (until the filament is vaporized by the arc, and the arc quenches out. But sometimes the arc continues for too long. Or perhaps the manufacturers got the gas mixture wrong. The hot arc will cause the argon pressure in the bulb to skyrocket. The bulb will burst with a bang. (A similar thing occurs if you put a bulb in a microwave oven for a couple of minutes. The hot plasma inside the bulb will vaporize the filament parts, then cause the bulb to explode via overpressure" ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 4/25/2006 3:15:10 AM Subject: Re: A blast in Ohio Robin. Re: Microwaving Wet Bricks. Bricks are a cheap and handy source for Molecular Sieves or Ion Exchange, Zeolites. You can break them with a hammer, or you can use your head....... to find something else to use.. The pore volume can run from 12% to 22%. and the pore size can vary from a few angstroms up, and they can be doped with Potassium Cations simply by soaking them in Red Devil Potassium Lye. The tests I did on microwaving them dry and wet several years ago strongly suggests that something out of the ordinary was going on. The trapped Air/Argon in them may be a factor that wasn't considered at the time. My residence has a red brick veneer with thousands of them but, I'm reluctant about dislodging one of them to make my point. :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Then there are the proverbial "Exploding Rocks"
and Volcano Bombs. that might be erroneously
explained by "conventional wisdom" too.
 
Is this Bill Beaty that wrote this?
 
 
William J  Beaty Oct 18, 2004 14:07

>I stumbled across the explanation under a Britannica entry for Argon.
Manufacturers put argon in light bulbs as an inert fill gas. Unfortunately
argon has a low breakdown voltage, so if the filament burns out, an arc
will leap across the broken ends. So, manufacturers put some nitrogen
in the argon to raise the breakdown voltage.
But sometimes an arc will strike across the broken filament ends.
When this occurs, the normal "yellow" light bulb color will turn
brilliant blue-white for a moment (until the filament is vaporized
by the arc, and the arc quenches out.
But sometimes the arc continues for too long. Or perhaps the
manufacturers got the gas mixture wrong. The hot arc will cause
the argon pressure in the bulb to skyrocket. The bulb will burst
with a bang.
(A similar thing occurs if you put a bulb in a microwave oven for
a couple of minutes. The hot plasma inside the bulb will vaporize
the filament parts, then cause the bulb to explode via overpressure"
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/25/2006 3:15:10 AM
Subject: Re: A blast in Ohio

Robin.
Re: Microwaving Wet Bricks.
 
Bricks are a  cheap and handy source for Molecular Sieves
or Ion Exchange, Zeolites.
You can break them with a hammer, or you can use your head.......
to find something else to use..
 
The pore volume can run from 12% to 22%. and the pore
size can vary from a few angstroms up, and they can be doped
with Potassium Cations simply  by soaking them in Red Devil Potassium
Lye.
The tests I did on microwaving them dry and wet several
years ago strongly suggests that something out of
the ordinary was going on.
The trapped Air/Argon in them may be a factor that wasn't
considered at the time.
My residence has a red brick veneer with thousands of them
but, I'm reluctant about dislodging one of them to make my point. :-)
 
Fred
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 25 04:32:46 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3PBWYOr025784; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 04:32:34 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3PBWWjl025767; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 04:32:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 04:32:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=BXwCY65yVeHNdmnjpUi6vjt8KRxoYszP1lT3fEfcxJGgc/a6qf8+1CQN7CJkhj5g; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064225113159275@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: A blast in Ohio Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 05:31:59 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940e4096a942e4765d3229a80c51ac0c315350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.220 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67780 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Anything interesting (that you don't see) happening with the Argon in Fluorescent Lamps? GE 26,000 hour fluorescent lamp patent: http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6683407-description.html "A long life mercury vapor discharge lamp is provided having a light-transmissive glass envelope that has an inner surface, means for providing a discharge, an ultraviolet reflecting barrier layer of alumina particles coated adjacent the inner surface of the glass envelope, a phosphor layer coated adjacent the barrier layer, and a discharge-sustaining fill gas of mercury vapor and argon sealed inside the envelope. The fill gas has a pressure of 2.9-5 torr at 25° C., and the phosphor layer has a coating weight of 2-3.5 mg/cm2. " ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/25/2006 4:38:17 AM Subject: Re: A blast in Ohio Then there are the proverbial "Exploding Rocks" and Volcano Bombs. that might be erroneously explained by "conventional wisdom" too. Is this Bill Beaty that wrote this? http://www.hhydr.com/light-bulb-explosion-1538416.html William J Beaty Oct 18, 2004 14:07 >I stumbled across the explanation under a Britannica entry for Argon. Manufacturers put argon in light bulbs as an inert fill gas. Unfortunately argon has a low breakdown voltage, so if the filament burns out, an arc will leap across the broken ends. So, manufacturers put some nitrogen in the argon to raise the breakdown voltage. But sometimes an arc will strike across the broken filament ends. When this occurs, the normal "yellow" light bulb color will turn brilliant blue-white for a moment (until the filament is vaporized by the arc, and the arc quenches out. But sometimes the arc continues for too long. Or perhaps the manufacturers got the gas mixture wrong. The hot arc will cause the argon pressure in the bulb to skyrocket. The bulb will burst with a bang. (A similar thing occurs if you put a bulb in a microwa! ve oven for a couple of minutes. The hot plasma inside the bulb will vaporize the filament parts, then cause the bulb to explode via overpressure" ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 4/25/2006 3:15:10 AM Subject: Re: A blast in Ohio Robin. Re: Microwaving Wet Bricks. Bricks are a cheap and handy source for Molecular Sieves or Ion Exchange, Zeolites. You can break them with a hammer, or you can use your head....... to find something else to use.. The pore volume can run from 12% to 22%. and the pore size can vary from a few angstroms up, and they can be doped with Potassium Cations simply by soaking them in Red Devil Potassium Lye. The tests I did on microwaving them dry and wet several years ago strongly suggests that something out of the ordinary was going on. The trapped Air/Argon in them may be a factor that wasn't considered at the time. My residence has a red brick veneer with thousands of them but, I'm reluctant about dislodging one of them to make my point. :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Anything interesting  (that you don't see) happening with the Argon in
Fluorescent Lamps?
 
GE 26,000 hour fluorescent lamp patent:
 
 
"A long life mercury vapor discharge lamp is provided having a light-transmissive glass envelope that has an inner surface, means for providing a discharge, an ultraviolet reflecting barrier layer of alumina particles coated adjacent the inner surface of the glass envelope, a phosphor layer coated adjacent the barrier layer, and a discharge-sustaining fill gas of mercury vapor and argon sealed inside the envelope. The fill gas has a pressure of 2.9-5 torr at 25° C., and the phosphor layer has a coating weight of 2-3.5 mg/cm2. "
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/25/2006 4:38:17 AM
Subject: Re: A blast in Ohio

Then there are the proverbial "Exploding Rocks"
and Volcano Bombs. that might be erroneously
explained by "conventional wisdom" too.
 
Is this Bill Beaty that wrote this?
 
 
William J  Beaty Oct 18, 2004 14:07

>I stumbled across the explanation under a Britannica entry for Argon.
Manufacturers put argon in light bulbs as an inert fill gas. Unfortunately
argon has a low breakdown voltage, so if the filament burns out, an arc
will leap across the broken ends. So, manufacturers put some nitrogen
in the argon to raise the breakdown voltage.
But sometimes an arc will strike across the broken filament ends.
When this occurs, the normal "yellow" light bulb color will turn
brilliant blue-white for a moment (until the filament is vaporized
by the arc, and the arc quenches out.
But sometimes the arc continues for too long. Or perhaps the
manufacturers got the gas mixture wrong. The hot arc will cause
the argon pressure in the bulb to skyrocket. The bulb will burst
with a bang.
(A similar thing occurs if you put a bulb in a microwa! ve oven for
a couple of minutes. The hot plasma inside the bulb will vaporize
the filament parts, then cause the bulb to explode via overpressure"
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/25/2006 3:15:10 AM
Subject: Re: A blast in Ohio

Robin.
Re: Microwaving Wet Bricks.
 
Bricks are a  cheap and handy source for Molecular Sieves
or Ion Exchange, Zeolites.
You can break them with a hammer, or you can use your head.......
to find something else to use..
 
The pore volume can run from 12% to 22%. and the pore
size can vary from a few angstroms up, and they can be doped
with Potassium Cations simply  by soaking them in Red Devil Potassium
Lye.
The tests I did on microwaving them dry and wet several
years ago strongly suggests that something out of
the ordinary was going on.
The trapped Air/Argon in them may be a factor that wasn't
considered at the time.
My residence has a red brick veneer with thousands of them
but, I'm reluctant about dislodging one of them to make my point. :-)
 
Fred
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 25 05:12:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3PCCJEg008182; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 05:12:19 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3PCCCtH008140; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 05:12:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 05:12:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=e9PnjW4muEUActRyAG105oJ47Eir7paiDa+XMdXFJwrCS+8S4zqr3Qm144GjaK3l; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064225121140635@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: A blast in Ohio Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 06:11:40 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940115bb6caf1f78351eba0c1f111c07a2f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.6 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67781 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII In the words of the late -great test pilot, Scott Crossfield, "one good experiment is better that ten thousand opinions". Scott died with his boots in the crash of his Cessna 210 near Atlanta last week. He was 84. So I put a brand new (filament intact) 40 watt bulb in a water glass with enough water at the bottom to cover the lamp base (slight float) and zapped it in the ~ 850 watt microwave. In about 3 seconds it glows blue-white red-orange and white without exploding and in about 60 seconds the water at the bottom is boiling. Fred >> Is this Bill Beaty that wrote this? > >> http://www.hhydr.com/light-bulb-explosion-1538416.html > >> William J Beaty Oct 18, 2004 14:07 > >> I stumbled across the explanation under a Britannica entry for Argon. >> Manufacturers put argon in light bulbs as an inert fill gas. Unfortunately >> argon has a low breakdown voltage, so if the filament burns out, an arc >> will leap across the broken ends. So, manufacturers put some nitrogen >> in the argon to raise the breakdown voltage. >> But sometimes an arc will strike across the broken filament ends. >> When this occurs, the normal "yellow" light bulb color will turn >> brilliant blue-white for a moment (until the filament is vaporized >> by the arc, and the arc quenches out. >> But sometimes the arc continues for too long. Or perhaps the >> manufacturers got the gas mixture wrong. The hot arc will cause >> the argon pressure in the bulb to skyrocket. The bulb will burst >> with a bang. >>(A similar thing occurs if you put a bulb in a microwave oven for >> a couple of minutes. The hot plasma inside the bulb will vaporize >> the filament parts, then cause the bulb to explode via overpressure<< > ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
In the words of the late -great test pilot, Scott Crossfield,
"one good experiment is better that ten thousand opinions".
Scott died with his boots in the crash of his Cessna 210 near Atlanta last week.
He was 84.
 
So I put a brand new (filament intact) 40 watt bulb in a water glass with
enough water at the bottom to cover the lamp base (slight float)
and zapped it in the ~ 850 watt microwave. In about 3 seconds
it glows blue-white red-orange and white without exploding and in about
60 seconds the water at the bottom is boiling.
 
Fred
 
>> Is this Bill Beaty that wrote this?
>
>
>> William J  Beaty Oct 18, 2004 14:07
>
>> I stumbled across the explanation under a Britannica entry for Argon.
>> Manufacturers put argon in light bulbs as an inert fill gas. Unfortunately
>> argon has a low breakdown voltage, so if the filament burns out, an arc
>> will leap across the broken ends. So, manufacturers put some nitrogen
>> in the argon to raise the breakdown voltage.
>> But sometimes an arc will strike across the broken filament ends.
>> When this occurs, the normal "yellow" light bulb color will turn
>> brilliant blue-white for a moment (until the filament is vaporized
>> by the arc, and the arc quenches out.
>> But sometimes the arc continues for too long. Or perhaps the
>> manufacturers got the gas mixture wrong. The hot arc will cause
>> the argon pressure in the bulb to skyrocket. The bulb will burst
>> with a bang.
>>(A similar thing occurs if you put a bulb in a microwave oven for
>> a couple of minutes. The hot plasma inside the bulb will vaporize
>> the filament parts, then cause the bulb to explode via overpressure<<
>
 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 25 06:04:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3PD3xJg029040; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 06:03:59 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3PD3v8V029027; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 06:03:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 06:03:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <002201c66868$b8392c80$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <410-220064225121140635@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: A blast in Ohio Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 15:03:59 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67782 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What do your two wild cats conclude from this nice experiment Fred? Anything going on on the inside and outside metal parts BTW? > and in about > 60 seconds the water at the bottom is boiling. Unbelievable, there must be a fraud, some hidden source of power ;) Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 2:11 PM Subject: Re: A blast in Ohio > In the words of the late -great test pilot, Scott Crossfield, > "one good experiment is better that ten thousand opinions". > Scott died with his boots in the crash of his Cessna 210 near Atlanta last > week. > He was 84. > > So I put a brand new (filament intact) 40 watt bulb in a water glass with > enough water at the bottom to cover the lamp base (slight float) > and zapped it in the ~ 850 watt microwave. In about 3 seconds > it glows blue-white red-orange and white without exploding and in about > 60 seconds the water at the bottom is boiling. > > Fred > >>> Is this Bill Beaty that wrote this? >> >>> http://www.hhydr.com/light-bulb-explosion-1538416.html >> >>> William J Beaty Oct 18, 2004 14:07 >> >>> I stumbled across the explanation under a Britannica entry for Argon. >>> Manufacturers put argon in light bulbs as an inert fill gas. >>> Unfortunately >>> argon has a low breakdown voltage, so if the filament burns out, an arc >>> will leap across the broken ends. So, manufacturers put some nitrogen >>> in the argon to raise the breakdown voltage. >>> But sometimes an arc will strike across the broken filament ends. >>> When this occurs, the normal "yellow" light bulb color will turn >>> brilliant blue-white for a moment (until the filament is vaporized >>> by the arc, and the arc quenches out. >>> But sometimes the arc continues for too long. Or perhaps the >>> manufacturers got the gas mixture wrong. The hot arc will cause >>> the argon pressure in the bulb to skyrocket. The bulb will burst >>> with a bang. >>>(A similar thing occurs if you put a bulb in a microwave oven for >>> a couple of minutes. The hot plasma inside the bulb will vaporize >>> the filament parts, then cause the bulb to explode via overpressure<< >> From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 25 06:49:35 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3PDnLx4020180; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 06:49:21 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3PDnJeO020156; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 06:49:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 06:49:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 09:49:13 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C836862C232AF7-1BC0-ADA@mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Phree Fizzix Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.134 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67783 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Some interesting stuff here: http://www.ptep-online.com/ plus lots of links. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 25 07:08:06 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3PE7oLi028154; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 07:07:50 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3PE7mf1028128; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 07:07:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 07:07:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <002a01c66871$9f480c10$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <410-220064023175148576@earthlink.net> <008f01c6672a$7e28d390$6401a8c0@NuDell> <004601c667b3$fb7bf690$6401a8c0@NuDell> Subject: Re: Special-K Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 07:07:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67784 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: There are two 'almost' insurmountable problems with the suggestion that a potassium ion can absorb a hydrino hydride and thereafter "act" as if it were an inert gas (argon). The biggest problem of the whole scenario is of course there is no model for this happening in all of physics. That is to be expected as there is no model for the hydrino in mainstream physics either, so one has zero comprehension of what the variables of having real hydrinos are. BTW from the perspective of an amateur observer of the Randell Mills' dog-and-pony show, and also a believer in the reality of LENR, and also a believer that the two MUST be related somehow, I am about 90% certain that the hydrino is a 'real' physical entity, previously unrecognized by mainstream physics, but also about 95% certain that major parts of Mills' theory are false. This is a very difficult stance, because Mills is brilliant and controversial and accepting only parts of his package is considered by his 'true believers' to be heretical and by the mainstream to be 'beyond stupid,' so it is not a comfortable viewpoint. Anyway, the second biggest problem of extending the implications of the 'real' hydrino to cover other anomalies in physics, such as "efficient radiation" of argon is the following. The suggestion that a fraction of normal argon in our atmosphere is in fact potassium-hydrino-hydride, where the hydrino has shrunken past a 'critical dimension' such that it cannot escape the confines of the electron shell of the potassium ion (i.e. the molecular weight is the same as argon and all the electron shells are filled) is that the nucleus is radically different from argon. Of course the electron shells determine the chemistry of any element but having an outer shell filled "only" because the inner shells have become host to an "interloper" is closer to science fiction, as things now stand. Not impossible but improbable. The 'infected' atom - sounds like a poorly scripted B-movie - and perhaps it is. After all this is vortex. OK. That is my setup and segue. I mention all of that as a prelude for observation that there is another *impossibility* in the periodic table - that being an element which has lower molecular weight than an element preceding it in the periodic table. Really. In this regard, this does happen - but only once. Not quite a singularity but almost. As fate would have it, the only light element in periodic table which is lower in molecular weight than the preceding element is: ta-da ... drumroll.... you guessed it: potassium. OK. I know K is technically not a singularity, because we have in recent years found an artificial element in reactor fuel rods, called neptunium, element 93 which is lighter than its predecessor - uranium, ...but... its one heck of a coincidence, don't you think ? that potassium is in this situation where it may somehow 'attract' the putative hydrinohydride (of high shrinkage) "as if" it were somehow aware that it was a bit light and needed to put on a few picograms... Isn't it fun to get anthropomorphic on the quantum level? doesn't it kinda remind you of Religion? or was that SciFi ? Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 25 07:29:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3PETKxo003702; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 07:29:20 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3PETJBX003692; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 07:29:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 07:29:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=b+jf4+sIPoqRFTKvqK4xDKpqZ8U/THc0C3GzBG6bk5IqudAz78nUI87zIVkdLVWn; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006422514297670@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A blast in Ohio Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 08:29:07 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94004ccabedee0bcfa6be21e777a182810e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.114 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67785 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michel Jullian says. > > What do your two wild cats conclude from this nice experiment Fred? > > Anything going on on the inside and outside metal parts BTW? > > > and in about > > 60 seconds the water at the bottom is boiling. > > Unbelievable, there must be a fraud, some hidden source of power ;) > There was. It was that hidden underground coal fed to the power plant sending about a pound per KW-Hr feeding my LIG (Life Is Good, that is the brand name) Microwave oven. :-) The light bulb setup makes a very good way to see the microwave "hot spots" as the table rotates. Fred > > Michel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frederick Sparber" > To: "vortex-l" > Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 2:11 PM > Subject: Re: A blast in Ohio > > > > In the words of the late -great test pilot, Scott Crossfield, > > "one good experiment is better that ten thousand opinions". > > Scott died with his boots on, in the crash of his Cessna 210 near Atlanta last > > week. > > He was 84. > > > > So I put a brand new (filament intact) 40 watt bulb in a water glass with > > enough water at the bottom to cover the lamp base (slight float) > > and zapped it in the ~ 850 watt microwave. In about 3 seconds > > it glows blue-white red-orange and white without exploding and in about > > 60 seconds the water at the bottom is boiling. > > > > Fred > > > >>> Is this Bill Beaty that wrote this? > >> > >>> http://www.hhydr.com/light-bulb-explosion-1538416.html > >> > >>> William J Beaty Oct 18, 2004 14:07 > >> > >>> I stumbled across the explanation under a Britannica entry for Argon. > >>> Manufacturers put argon in light bulbs as an inert fill gas. > >>> Unfortunately > >>> argon has a low breakdown voltage, so if the filament burns out, an arc > >>> will leap across the broken ends. So, manufacturers put some nitrogen > >>> in the argon to raise the breakdown voltage. > >>> But sometimes an arc will strike across the broken filament ends. > >>> When this occurs, the normal "yellow" light bulb color will turn > >>> brilliant blue-white for a moment (until the filament is vaporized > >>> by the arc, and the arc quenches out. > >>> But sometimes the arc continues for too long. Or perhaps the > >>> manufacturers got the gas mixture wrong. The hot arc will cause > >>> the argon pressure in the bulb to skyrocket. The bulb will burst > >>> with a bang. > >>>(A similar thing occurs if you put a bulb in a microwave oven for > >>> a couple of minutes. The hot plasma inside the bulb will vaporize > >>> the filament parts, then cause the bulb to explode via overpressure<< > >> From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 25 08:11:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3PFBCoN022331; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 08:11:17 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3PFBBiS022316; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 08:11:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 08:11:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=q1NGtasovZg6RsfRhoXAhDVF6B0F11kUdyGczusm9saEKVUFTv//4mo4qZ10OQSs; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064225151059907@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: A blast in Ohio Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 09:10:59 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9407329ba475bc8350e3dbec2e2d46a3a64350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.17 Resent-Message-ID: <1K8LX.A.ncF.PwjTEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67786 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: BTW, Michel. Molecular Sieves with 3 -5 Angstrom pore size will probably have a surface area approaching 500 meters per gram, thus a Helmholtz Double Layer Capacitance at the water interface of about 50 Farads. Wetting the Mole Sieve then Zapping it with microwaves might give "Natural Free Energy" of 1/2 CV^2 (V equals the "Zeta Potential" volts joules/gram. If Zeta Potential = 10 millivolts Natural Free Energy = 2.5 millijoules. If you cycle it as happens at the electrodes of electrolysis cells due to gas bubbling, you can squeeze out 20% - 60% "Over-Unity" in a few hours or days. Fred From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 25 08:43:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3PFh9ne002834; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 08:43:09 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3PFh4YC002803; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 08:43:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 08:43:04 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <005f01c6687e$edafd790$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Subject: Fw: Joe Cell Stuff Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 08:42:58 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005C_01C66844.40E5BAA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67787 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005C_01C66844.40E5BAA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Terry Blanton had sent me this site:=20 > http://educate-yourself.org/fe/fejoewatercell.shtml Anyone interest in the Joe Cell may have already seen it, but relevant = details trun up on every rereading of anecdotal information, such as: "Reich realized that it was Orgone energy which accounted for the *blue = lumination*". FWIW: the characteristic color or irradiated Argon is sky blue. Argon is = often listed as "colorless" but it turns sky blue on irradiation, as can = be seen at the bottom of this page. http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Elements/018/index.s7.html ------=_NextPart_000_005C_01C66844.40E5BAA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Terry Blanton had sent me this=20 site: 

> http://educate-yourself.org/fe/fejoewatercell.shtml
 
 
Anyone interest in the Joe Cell may = have already=20 seen it, but relevant details trun up on every rereading of anecdotal=20 information, such as:
 
"Reich realized that it was Orgone = energy which=20 accounted for the *blue lumination*".
 
FWIW: the characteristic color or = irradiated Argon=20 is sky blue. Argon is often listed as "colorless" but it turns sky blue = on=20 irradiation, as can be seen at the bottom of this page.
http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Elements/018/index.s7.html=

------=_NextPart_000_005C_01C66844.40E5BAA0-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 25 08:58:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3PFvt1N009502; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 08:57:55 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3PFvrBI009476; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 08:57:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 08:57:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=FBuywoZk7TIww3G2+kirTJtgpgVg/200kRoSnir3Td1LVbMOWik/6q1d3nfKxXrL; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064225155738794@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: Fw: Joe Cell Stuff Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 09:57:38 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940fd877e6f7410c7f1255989163595082b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.136 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67788 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Geez Jones. I posted that link days ago. Where did you think I got my ammunition? :-) Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Jones Beene To: vortex Sent: 4/25/2006 9:43:54 AM Subject: Fw: Joe Cell Stuff Terry Blanton had sent me this site: > http://educate-yourself.org/fe/fejoewatercell.shtml Anyone interest in the Joe Cell may have already seen it, but relevant details trun up on every rereading of anecdotal information, such as: "Reich realized that it was Orgone energy which accounted for the *blue lumination*". FWIW: the characteristic color or irradiated Argon is sky blue. Argon is often listed as "colorless" but it turns sky blue on irradiation, as can be seen at the bottom of this page. http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Elements/018/index.s7.html ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Geez Jones.
 
I posted that link days ago.
 
Where did you think I got my ammunition?   :-)
 
Fred
 
----- Original Message -----
To: vortex
Sent: 4/25/2006 9:43:54 AM
Subject: Fw: Joe Cell Stuff

Terry Blanton had sent me this site: 
 
 
Anyone interest in the Joe Cell may have already seen it, but relevant details trun up on every rereading of anecdotal information, such as:
 
"Reich realized that it was Orgone energy which accounted for the *blue lumination*".
 
FWIW: the characteristic color or irradiated Argon is sky blue. Argon is often listed as "colorless" but it turns sky blue on irradiation, as can be seen at the bottom of this page.

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 25 09:38:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3PGchE6027718; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 09:38:44 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3PGbvXJ027419; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 09:37:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 09:37:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:37:54 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C8369DBCB40136-2DB4-2FA@mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: NdFeB Owners Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.134 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67789 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If we did find a way to make a magnetic motor we would probably be held ransom by the Asians. Japan (Sumimoto) and China (Magnequench) hold the patents on the manufacturing processes: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34037 Our government in action. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 25 09:40:54 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3PGeg9x028817; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 09:40:43 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3PGeeHw028782; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 09:40:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 09:40:40 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:40:34 -0400 Message-Id: <8C8369E1BF03874-2DB4-30F@mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <8C836862C232AF7-1BC0-ADA@mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <8C836862C232AF7-1BC0-ADA@mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Phree Fizzix Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.134 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67790 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Some interesting stuff here: http://www.ptep-online.com/ plus lots of links. <><><><><><> See the January issue, p. 52, "On the Theory and Physics of the Aether." Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 25 09:46:55 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3PGknvm031780; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 09:46:49 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3PGkVpw031692; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 09:46:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 09:46:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:46:29 -0400 Message-Id: <8C8369EEF2FAB21-2DB4-353@mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <410-220064225155738794@earthlink.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <410-220064225155738794@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Joe Cell Stuff Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.134 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3PGkUEp031669 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67791 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Frederick Sparber Geez Jones.   I posted that link days ago.   Where did you think I got my ammunition?   :-) <><><><><><><> "Will it go round in circles" I came across it via an energy2000 yahoo group. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 25 12:29:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3PJTDRN003209; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:29:13 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3PJTBPK003194; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:29:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:29:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 15:29:03 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C836B5A57D31B3-2DB4-ADF@mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: SMES Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.134 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <-e2ZwB.A.xx.HinTEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67792 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is what you need to run your laptop US5374914: Compact magnetic energy storage module Abstract A superconducting compact magnetic energy storage module in which a plurality of superconducting toroids, each having a toroidally wound superconducting winding inside a poloidally wound superconducting winding, are stacked so that the flow of electricity in each toroidally wound superconducting winding is in a direction opposite from the direction of electrical flow in other contiguous superconducting toroids. This allows for minimal magnetic pollution outside of the module. ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 25 13:37:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3PKbcIm031989; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 13:37:38 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3PKbbn0031979; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 13:37:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 13:37:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <444E8886.2060104@pobox.com> Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 16:37:26 -0400 From: "Stephen A. Lawrence" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20060202 Fedora/1.7.12-1.5.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l Subject: Re: Lawnmower Man References: <410-22006402318912567@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <410-22006402318912567@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67793 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is an interesting idea but I'm afraid that, as described, there is a problem with it: It's really just a very complicated electric motor which runs on the energy stored in the battery. It seems unlikely that such a rig could approach an ordinary magnet-and-coil-based electric motor in efficiency. Additional comments below... (snipped heavily to keep message length down) Frederick Sparber wrote: > > [ snip ] > > From: Pat_Pelletier@mindlink.bc.ca (Pat Pelletier) > > Newsgroups: sci.engr > > Subject: PUBLIC DISCLOSURE - NEW INVENTION > > Date: Mon, 28 Aug 95 10:54:05 - 0700 > > Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada > > > > I am posting the following for a friend who does NOT have access > > to Internet. Comments welcomed. > > > > NOTICE [ snip ] > > *This *engine* was first tested in 1992. I am however unable to > > invest the required capital to produce a more sophisticated model > > and therefore unable to patent it. This is not patentable, no matter how sophisticated the model, because it's a perpetual motion machine of the first kind, and the patent office rejects them automatically. See below. [ snip ] > > 1. The *magnetron* fits into the spark plug hole. > > > > 2. The distributor points are modified so that the contact is > > closed when the piston is at the top dead center and this contact > > is used to activate the aircraft strobe mechanism. > > > > 3. The high voltage from the strobe is connected to! directly > > fire the *magnetron* which in turn produces steam which moves the > > piston. > > > > 4. The *engine* turns the alternator which keeps the battery > > charged, which supplies the electrical power for the *magnetron. This describes perpetual motion. The energy to vaporize the water comes from the alternator, and the energy to drive the alternator comes from the vaporization of the water. What's more, it's a pure Carnot cycle engine, which has been studied to death and is very unlikely to have a hidden cubbyhole in which ZPE energy or hydrinos or some such may come in and save its bacon. > >* CAUTION AND TIPS: > > > > WARNING!!! DANGER!!!! > > > > 1. Be careful around the *magnetron.* KEEP IT SHIELDED WITH > > METAL. IT CAN CAUSE SEVERE BURNS THAT MAY NOT BE READILY VISIBLE > > WHEN THEY FIRST OCCUR. Fun and games with a bare magnetron... yike. [ snip ] > > 5. Start with a fully charged battery or your alternator won't > > work. > > > > 6. The energy produced is in excess of the power required to run > > the alternator but until you get the RPM up, and the parts wrking > > in harmony, it may be best to use a battery charger instead of an > > alternator. Indeed. [ snip ] From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 25 14:45:20 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3PLj5dh028079; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:45:05 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3PLj3Md028059; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:45:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:45:03 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lawnmower Man Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 07:45:03 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <410-22006402318912567@earthlink.net> <444E8886.2060104@pobox.com> In-Reply-To: <444E8886.2060104@pobox.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta05ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.54.217] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:45:01 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3PLj1dj028034 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67794 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Stephen A. Lawrence's message of Tue, 25 Apr 2006 16:37:26 -0400: Hi, [snip] >This is an interesting idea but I'm afraid that, as described, there >is a problem with it: It's really just a very complicated electric >motor which runs on the energy stored in the battery. [snip] ...not of course, if the microwaves are creating hydrinos from the water vapor. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 25 15:07:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3PM7DFY005030; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 15:07:14 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3PM7CHS005018; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 15:07:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 15:07:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=N+Bbvlgkf7IGTyCd5DPzDKiswLdFvqoRgNoPmhnYdst8qRzamwemYFnyi8hQn5zc; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006422522649479@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lawnmower Man Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 16:06:49 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9404eecedda3ec2d5ed2bf8ee0a10937221350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.32 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67795 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stephen A. Lawrence wrote. > > This is an interesting idea but I'm afraid that, as described, there > is a problem with it: It's really just a very complicated electric > motor which runs on the energy stored in the battery. > > It seems unlikely that such a rig could approach an ordinary > magnet-and-coil-based electric motor in efficiency. > With an 800 watt or 800 joule-sec magnetron you should be able to muster about 0.9 horsepower of "perpetual energy" out of it. Calculations on the Joe Cell based on a 2.4 liter engine at 3,000 RPM shows 0.062 grams/sec evaporated out of the Cell based on a 0.5 Venturi Ejector Effect vacuum pumping. A 12 volt battery delivering 12 amps (144 joule/sec heat input to the cell handles that, plus about 55 joule worth of "Brown's Gas" mixed with the water vapor [H2O + n(OH + H] that can recombine in the combustion cylinder for evaporation and "Brown's Gas" energy recovery. so you might get 144/746 watts or about 0.2 HP for your crankcase fume-battery recharge efforts. Unless you multiply the 0.20 HP by Mf where Mf is the Miracle Factor a number that can range from 0.0 to Infinity. :-) > > (snipped heavily to keep message length > down) > Right. Fred From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 25 15:41:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3PMfYV3017729; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 15:41:35 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3PMfX1w017712; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 15:41:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 15:41:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 18:41:44 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: OT: Cold fusion...of a kind. ;-) In-reply-to: <6.2.0.14.2.20060424211213.02e28008@mail.newenergytimes.com> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67796 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A hot fusion variant exists as well. ;-) Since ice will melt under pressure, two ice cubes in a dry environment can be made to fuse by temporarily forcing them together. Harry Steven Krivit wrote: > Publish! > > > At 10:00 PM 4/24/2006, you wrote: >> Cold fusion...of a kind. ;-) >> >> This evening I was drinking a glass of water with two ice cubes. >> The ice cubes went into the glass separately. The water and ice >> sat undisturbed for a while. The two ice cubes fused together as they >> melted. >> >> >> Harry > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 25 15:59:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3PMxfGn023570; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 15:59:42 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3PMxeHq023561; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 15:59:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 15:59:40 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060425185915.03d735b8@mindspring.com> Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060425185845.03d7d178@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 18:59:33 -0400 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Question to Britz: What is your reaction to Gerischer or Iyengar? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67797 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here is a message I sent to arch-skeptic Dieter Britz. Ritz is probably the only person on earth who has read hundreds of papers about cold fusion yet who still insists that it does not exist. - - - - - - - - - - - - Here is a serious question. I am not trying to bug you (this time!) -- I really want to know what you think. I have been thinking about your claim that H. Bauer is neutral, even though in 2001 he said cold fusion is "without, yet, any satisfactory reproducibility." ("Science and Pseudoscience," p. 108.) To me, there is nothing "logical or fair" about this; it is tantamount to dismissing the work at Mitsubishi, Toyota and elsewhere that achieved 100% reproducibility. What would satisfy him? What does he mean? From my point of view, you and Bauer are saying that to be "neutral" a person has to refrain from believing the evidence, no matter how compelling it may be, even after years and years of 100% successful applications and Mitsubishi and tritium at 20,000 times background in BARC. Your views are quite different from some old-school experimental scientists. Take three examples from 1989 and 1991: The late Heinz Gerischer. After attending the ICCF-2 conference and spending a week examining the literature, he wrote: "there is now undoubtedly overwhelming indications that nuclear processes take place in the metal alloys." (http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/GerischerHiscoldfusi.pdf) Iyengar, the Director of BARC and later Indian AEC member: "Conclusions: Investigations of cold fusion phenomena carried out at Trombay during April to September 1989, have positively confirmed the occurrence of (d-d) fusion reactions in both electrolytic and gas loaded Pd and Ti metal lattices at ambient temperatures." (http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/IyengarPKprefaceand.pdf) The researchers at Amoco in 1989: "The calorimetry conclusively shows excess energy was produced within the electrolytic cell over the period of the experiment. This amount, 50 kilojoules, is such that any chemical reaction would have had to been in near molar amounts to have produced the energy. Chemical analysis shows clearly that no such chemical reactions occurred. The tritium results show that some form of nuclear reactions occurred during the experiment." (http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Lautzenhiscoldfusion.pdf) There is no equivocation in these statements. They say "I am sure it is real." They say "undoubtedly overwhelming" and "conclusively." So do Fleischmann and Bockris, as I am sure you know. These people would bet their life on it. So here is my question: Would you and Bauer say these people are biased? Because they have made up their minds and they are convinced by the experimental evidence, would you say they are incapable of being neutral? Do you suppose that anyone who makes up his mind could never have been neutral in the first place? I expect you probably would say these things. Honestly, I cannot fathom your thought processes. - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 25 16:29:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3PNTXC3001240; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 16:29:33 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3PNTVMq001223; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 16:29:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 16:29:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 19:29:30 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C836D73CA7FC17-2D90-C2B7@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Is Sol Bi? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.133 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67798 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.physorg.com/news65117758.html "Walter Cruttenden at BRI, Professor Richard Muller at UC Berkeley, Dr. Daniel Whitmire of the University of Louisiana, amongst several others, have long speculated on the possibility that our sun might have an as yet undiscovered companion. " ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 25 17:03:31 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3Q03Cbq013219; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:03:12 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3Q03AlQ013190; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:03:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:03:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [64.174.37.158] X-Originating-Email: [mgoldes@msn.com] X-Sender: mgoldes@msn.com In-Reply-To: <8C836B5A57D31B3-2DB4-ADF@mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> From: "Mark Goldes" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: SMES Keep in mind the cooling required - better alternatives may soon exist. Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:02:56 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Apr 2006 00:03:05.0139 (UTC) FILETIME=[CAC47830:01C668C4] Resent-Message-ID: <-VdmGD.A.6ND.8irTEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67799 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Melvin Pruitt is an excellent scientist, very familiar with SMES. However, SMES devices need to be cooled to at least LN3 temperatures. The same design, made with Ultraconductors(tm), and thereby an UMES, could do the trick. However, wire is still about 3 years and $18 million doen the road. Ultraconductor wire can be 1 or 2 microns in diameter and therefore must be sheathed in some stronger polymer. But, that is routinely done with fine wire all the time. A full charge would seem instantaneous, since these wries would readily carry 50 amperes. But, then a Magnetic Power Module(tm) that can fit into an AA cell seems possible and would eliminate the need for any recharge. A major chip maker has signed an NDA to explore that possibility. Mark www.magneticpowerinc.com >From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net >Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com >To: vortex-l@eskimo.com >Subject: SMES >Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 15:29:03 -0400 > >This is what you need to run your laptop US5374914: > >Compact magnetic energy storage module > >Abstract >A superconducting compact magnetic energy storage module in which a >plurality of superconducting toroids, each having a toroidally wound >superconducting winding inside a poloidally wound superconducting winding, >are stacked so that the flow of electricity in each toroidally wound >superconducting winding is in a direction opposite from the direction of >electrical flow in other contiguous superconducting toroids. This allows >for minimal magnetic pollution outside of the module. > >___________________________________________________ >Try the New Netscape Mail Today! >Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List >http://mail.netscape.com > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Apr 25 17:09:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3Q09LLb015550; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:09:22 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3Q09JKW015531; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:09:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:09:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [64.174.37.158] X-Originating-Email: [mgoldes@msn.com] X-Sender: mgoldes@msn.com In-Reply-To: <8C8369DBCB40136-2DB4-2FA@mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> From: "Mark Goldes" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: NdFeB may be superseded by polymers in the future Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:09:16 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Apr 2006 00:09:18.0735 (UTC) FILETIME=[A972B1F0:01C668C5] Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67800 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Interesting article. However, Ultraconductors(tm) are likely to sustain a persistent current when made into a loop, a condition not yet achieved. If so, these polymers may prove capable of replacing permanent magnets of many varieities, including neo. They would be lighter and more compact and need contain no metal whatsoever. These materials have been tested in magnetic fields as high as 9 Tesla with no loss of conductivity. Mark www.ultraconductors.com >From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net >Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com >To: vortex-l@eskimo.com >Subject: NdFeB Owners >Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:37:54 -0400 > >If we did find a way to make a magnetic motor we would probably be held >ransom by the Asians. Japan (Sumimoto) and China (Magnequench) hold the >patents on the manufacturing processes: > >http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34037 > >Our government in action. > >Terry >___________________________________________________ >Try the New Netscape Mail Today! >Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List >http://mail.netscape.com > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 26 03:37:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3QAbFL2019519; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 03:37:15 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3QAbCUj019492; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 03:37:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 03:37:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <002801c6691d$5f718100$0701a8c0@nixlaptop> From: "Nick Palmer" To: References: Subject: Re: SMES Keep in mind the cooling required - better alternatives may soon exist. Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 11:37:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67801 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Mark, From your website:- <> Does this still hold true? Nick Palmer From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 26 04:21:56 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3QBLkew003976; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 04:21:46 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3QBLj36003955; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 04:21:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 04:21:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=fr3f/Zpf2xEBBPCLXx2UrSTzHyRi+6jAP83SYPpI2LHRxYXoSx8a+bqINBYByD0A; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064326112128726@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re; Lump Charcoal Potassium-40, Positron Argon Source Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 05:21:28 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940c8cea521436256ea3b3b2b1da7795d97350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.133 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67802 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Since potassium is a major wood ash component the charcoal should be loaded with K-40. Positrons = Positronium = Electronium , Electronium + "Argon Catalyst" = Hydrinos and many H2-H2O Related, Over-Unity Effects, too numerous to mention. The Kingsford charcoal briquettes are full of binding materials. http://www.nakedwhiz.com/burntimetest/lumpcompare.htm "Testing Methodology As we stated in the Introduction, this was a semi-scientific examination of these charcoals. We didn't used a closed system calorimeter. (But then, we don't cook in a closed-system calorimeter, do we?) A small Big Green Egg ceramic cooker was used for all test burns." "There was no surprise in the fact that Wicked Good Charcoal's Competition Blend and Kamado's Extruded Coconut charcoal burned the longest times. After all, both types of charcoal are dense and have a high fixed carbon content. What was surprising (at least if you read some of the barbecue forums) is that Cowboy charcoal burned as long as Big Green Egg/Royal Oak charcoal." ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Since potassium is a major wood ash component the charcoal should be
loaded with K-40.
Positrons =  Positronium =  Electronium , Electronium + "Argon Catalyst" = Hydrinos
and many H2-H2O Related, Over-Unity Effects, too numerous to mention.
 
The Kingsford charcoal briquettes are full of binding materials.
 
 
"Testing Methodology As we stated in the Introduction, this was a semi-scientific examination of these charcoals. We didn't used a closed system calorimeter. (But then, we don't cook in a closed-system calorimeter, do we?) A small Big Green Egg ceramic cooker was used for all test burns."
"There was no surprise in the fact that Wicked Good Charcoal's Competition Blend and Kamado's Extruded Coconut charcoal burned the longest times. After all, both types of charcoal are dense and have a high fixed carbon content. What was surprising (at least if you read some of the barbecue forums) is that Cowboy charcoal burned as long as Big Green Egg/Royal Oak charcoal."
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 26 05:19:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3QCJYcm023255; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 05:19:34 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3QCJXgO023248; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 05:19:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 05:19:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=VSPpBsY3MyE5TdPJiFG1hJXlaKFIRFPGtjJGbAPpQG2/m1sh7jx2glp11KtTX0qA; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064326121923886@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Lump Charcoal Potassium-40, Positron Argon Source Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 06:19:23 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94016a7d4c74345e1a4ed2eee582bdc4f10350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.68 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67803 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII That is a Grate Web Page. With a steam generator attachment the BigGreenEgg can be turned into a charcoal gasifier that produces a clean, low BTU gas (N2, O2, Ar, CO2 + H2 + CO) that can power an ICE. Similar gasifiers were used in Europe and Asia during WW II. They ran them on coconut shells in the Philippines. Might even make some Hydrinos. Fred http://www.biggreenegg.com/photo4.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-L Sent: 4/26/2006 5:22:29 AM Subject: Re; Lump Charcoal Potassium-40, Positron Argon Source Since potassium is a major wood ash component the charcoal should be loaded with K-40. Positrons = Positronium = Electronium , Electronium + "Argon Catalyst" = Hydrinos and many H2-H2O Related, Over-Unity Effects, too numerous to mention. The Kingsford charcoal briquettes are full of binding materials. http://www.nakedwhiz.com/burntimetest/lumpcompare.htm "Testing Methodology As we stated in the Introduction, this was a semi-scientific examination of these charcoals. We didn't used a closed system calorimeter. (But then, we don't cook in a closed-system calorimeter, do we?) A small Big Green Egg ceramic cooker was used for all test burns." "There was no surprise in the fact that Wicked Good Charcoal's Competition Blend and Kamado's Extruded Coconut charcoal burned the longest times. After all, both types of charcoal are dense and have a high fixed carbon content. What was surprising (at least if you read some of the barbecue forums) is that Cowboy charcoal burned as long as Big Green Egg/Royal Oak charcoal." ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
That is a Grate Web Page.
 
With a steam generator attachment the BigGreenEgg can be turned into
a charcoal gasifier that produces a clean, low BTU gas (N2, O2, Ar, CO2 + H2 +  CO)
that can power an ICE.
Similar gasifiers were used in Europe and Asia during WW II.
They ran them on coconut shells in the Philippines.
 
Might even make some Hydrinos.
 
Fred
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/26/2006 5:22:29 AM
Subject: Re; Lump Charcoal Potassium-40, Positron Argon Source

Since potassium is a major wood ash component the charcoal should be
loaded with K-40.
Positrons =  Positronium =  Electronium , Electronium + "Argon Catalyst" = Hydrinos
and many H2-H2O Related, Over-Unity Effects, too numerous to mention.
 
The Kingsford charcoal briquettes are full of binding materials.
 
 
"Testing Methodology As we stated in the Introduction, this was a semi-scientific examination of these charcoals. We didn't used a closed system calorimeter. (But then, we don't cook in a closed-system calorimeter, do we?) A small Big Green Egg ceramic cooker was used for all test burns."
"There was no surprise in the fact that Wicked Good Charcoal's Competition Blend and Kamado's Extruded Coconut charcoal burned the longest times. After all, both types of charcoal are dense and have a high fixed carbon content. What was surprising (at least if you read some of the barbecue forums) is that Cowboy charcoal burned as long as Big Green Egg/Royal Oak charcoal."
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 26 06:09:18 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3QD9Bpk010845; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 06:09:11 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3QD94ux010762; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 06:09:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 06:09:04 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2006-03-10) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.6 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Message-ID: <001801c66932$8f615600$d4027841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: Re: Question to Britz Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 08:08:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C66908.A5F29070" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67804 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C66908.A5F29070 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0015_01C66908.A5F29070" ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C66908.A5F29070 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank Howdy Jed, Your constant and resolute response to " incomplete journalistic = reporting of science progress" may be having a greater impact than = reported. hmmm! Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C66908.A5F29070 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
 

Howdy Jed,

Your  constant and resolute response to " incomplete = journalistic=20 reporting of science progress" may be having a greater impact = than=20 reported. hmmm!

Richard

------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C66908.A5F29070-- ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C66908.A5F29070 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <001301c66932$8ebdc300$d4027841@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C66908.A5F29070-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 26 06:32:00 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3QDViwK019510; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 06:31:44 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3QDVha8019494; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 06:31:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 06:31:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 09:31:42 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C8374CE3AA9832-2B10-4634@mblkn-m06.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: More Aurora Rumbles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.70 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <8_ikI.A.gwE.-Y3TEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67805 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/northcounty/20060423-9999-1n23bigboom. html http://tinyurl.com/g7acl ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 26 06:47:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3QDlCe0030717; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 06:47:13 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3QDlAwf030692; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 06:47:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 06:47:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [192.82.6.25] X-Originating-Email: [mgoldes@msn.com] X-Sender: mgoldes@msn.com In-Reply-To: <002801c6691d$5f718100$0701a8c0@nixlaptop> From: "Mark Goldes" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Demo Devices Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 06:46:52 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Apr 2006 13:47:04.0581 (UTC) FILETIME=[E6F8A350:01C66937] Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67806 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Nick, If funds accelerate as we have been told they will, it should prove correct. If not, it will take longer. Mark >From: "Nick Palmer" >Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com >To: >Subject: Re: SMES Keep in mind the cooling required - better alternatives >may soon exist. >Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 11:37:05 +0100 > >Hi Mark, > > From your website:- > ><evidence that the Quantum Dynamos can be a practical source for the >conversion of an inexhaustible supply of energy. The target time frame for >pre-manufacturing prototypes is the Summer of 2006>> > >Does this still hold true? > >Nick Palmer > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 26 12:10:17 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3QJ9kSv021569; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:09:46 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3QJ9hOR021529; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:09:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:09:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-IronPort-AV: i="4.04,158,1144036800"; d="scan'208"; a="2091231803:sNHT32937902" Message-ID: <18719958.1146078580306.JavaMail.root@fepweb10> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:09:40 -0700 From: OrionWorks To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: NdFeB may be superseded by polymers in the future Cc: orionworks@charter.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Sensitivity: Normal Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67807 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From Mark Goldes > Interesting article. > > However, Ultraconductors(tm) are likely to sustain a persistent current when > made into a loop, a condition not yet achieved. > > If so, these polymers may prove capable of replacing permanent magnets of > many varieities, including neo. > > They would be lighter and more compact and need contain no metal whatsoever. > > These materials have been tested in magnetic fields as high as 9 Tesla with > no loss of conductivity. > > Mark > www.ultraconductors.com > > > > >From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net > >Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com > >To: vortex-l@eskimo.com > >Subject: NdFeB Owners > >Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:37:54 -0400 > > > >If we did find a way to make a magnetic motor we would probably be held > >ransom by the Asians. Japan (Sumimoto) and China (Magnequench) hold the > >patents on the manufacturing processes: > > > >http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34037 > > > >Our government in action. > > > >Terry > >___________________________________________________ > >Try the New Netscape Mail Today! > >Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List > >http://mail.netscape.com > > FYI: Information I gleaned from Kiplinger Forecasts newsletter, Feb. 17: China has discretely cornered the market on rare earth elements. This includes europium, yttrium and other elements which are needed to make computers, video players and a lot of other nifty stuff we have grown accustomed to. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume the rare earth element, niobium, which is used to create powerful permanent magnets is likely to be included in this endangered list as well. And here's the clincher: It was China's ability to mine these rare earth elements at competitively lower costs that essentially drove all its competitors from the market. Buyers love purchasing the raw materials at the lowest prices available on the market. But now China can cut off exports or manipulate prices should national policy, for whatever reason, dictate that they "...do what must be done!" At present this Revenge-of-the-Sith-like scenario is not considered to be a very likely one. Nevertheless, it can't be dismissed completely. We have no viable substitutes for rare earth elements. I find it most curious that we have heard nothing about this from the Bush administration, considering the fact that these elements are, without a doubt, strategic resources for which our economy's health depends. Having no access would seriously affect our economy and drastically change national security policies in unpleasant ways. Why am I not surprised. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Apr 26 12:45:09 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3QJiheo010572; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:44:43 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3QJifPI010536; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:44:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:44:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060426154427.03ee4960@mindspring.com> Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060426153857.03dbd548@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:44:35 -0400 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: "Controversy" article updated Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67808 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The Wikipedia "controversy" article is updated, with 35 footnotes. See it before the skeptics trash it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion_controversy Wikipedia footnotes are a pain in the butt. I compiled an impressive list of cold fusion researchers here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion_controversy#Doubts_on_the_quality_of_the_cold_fusion_scientists Heinz Gerischer, Director of the Max Planck Institute for Physical Chemistry . . . Nobel laureate Julian Schwinger . . . Dr. P. K. Iyengar director of BARC, later chairman of the Indian Atomic Energy Commission . . . Those are just a few a few of the people Slakey of the APS called "a cult of fervent half-wits." - Jed From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 27 00:56:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3R7uZ70000698; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 00:56:36 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3R7uTpv000654; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 00:56:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 00:56:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=MhHnFhm86nPw7f3hhVLGkpTEmHXfXnBDtmFAy43IjFtxopOLRWg/SiVbGHqhh867; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006442775514458@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Helmholtz Region Capacitance Free Energy Puzzle Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 01:55:14 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9409048787937a97a12d6fbc1d8c1cdec28350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.148 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67809 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII The Helmholtz Region Capacitance (HRC) occurs spontaneously upon contact of water with a surface, with Natural Free Energy (NFE) 1/2 CV^2 where V is the Zeta Potential. If a current (or microwave) is passed through a sealed porous material (a lump of charcoal or a brick) filled with water that is heated enough to evaporate and eliminate the (NFE) then allowed to cool and re-establish the NFE, is there a net Over-Unity energy? http://electrochem.cwru.edu/ed/encycl/art-c03-elchem-cap.htm " The Helmholtz region capacitance "CH" is of special significance for electrochemical capacitors since it is directly dependent on accessible electrode area and has large values (relative to those for regular dielectric capacitors) between about 16 µF/cm2 and about 40-50 µF/cm2, depending on electrode potential, the chemical nature of the metal surface, chemical nature of the solvent, and the types of ions (and their solvation by the solvent) present in the electrolyte solution. It was mentioned that the specific capacitances of electrode double layers are very large, some 10,000 times those of ordinary dielectric capacitors, per cm2 area. The reason for this is that the separation of charges in electrochemical double layers is on the order of 0.3-0.5 nm instead of 10 to 100 nm with oxide-film dielectrics (electrolytic capacitors) or 1000 nm with very thin mica or polystyrene dielectric-film hardware capacitors. Hence, it is seen that with large specific-area porous electrodes, for example at carbons having say 1000 m2/g of material and exhibiting, say, 15 µF/(real cm2) of double-layer capacitance in some suitable electrolyte solution, the accessible capacitance "C" is 1000 (m2/g) × 10,000 (cm2/m2) × 15 (µF/cm2) = 150 million µF/g, that is 150 farads/g, a very large capacitance! Hence the term "supercapacitors" or "ultracapacitors" for devices based on double-layer capacitance at high-area substrates." Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
The Helmholtz Region Capacitance  (HRC) occurs spontaneously upon contact
of water with a surface, with Natural Free Energy  (NFE) 1/2 CV^2  where V is the Zeta Potential.
 
If a current (or microwave) is passed through a sealed porous material (a lump of charcoal or a brick)
filled with water that is heated enough to evaporate and eliminate the (NFE) then allowed to
cool and re-establish the NFE, is there a net Over-Unity energy?
 
 
 
" The Helmholtz region capacitance "CH" is of special significance for electrochemical capacitors since it is directly dependent on accessible electrode area and has large values (relative to those for regular dielectric capacitors) between about 16 µF/cm2 and about 40-50 µF/cm2, depending on electrode potential, the chemical nature of the metal surface, chemical nature of the solvent, and the types of ions (and their solvation by the solvent) present in the electrolyte solution.

It was mentioned that the specific capacitances of electrode double layers are very large, some 10,000 times those of ordinary dielectric capacitors, per cm2 area. The reason for this is that the separation of charges in electrochemical double layers is on the order of 0.3-0.5 nm instead of 10 to 100 nm with oxide-film dielectrics (electrolytic capacitors) or 1000 nm with very thin mica or polystyrene dielectric-film hardware capacitors.

Hence, it is seen that with large specific-area porous electrodes, for example at carbons having say 1000 m2/g of material and exhibiting, say, 15 µF/(real cm2) of double-layer capacitance in some suitable electrolyte solution, the accessible capacitance "C" is 1000 (m2/g) × 10,000 (cm2/m2) × 15 (µF/cm2) = 150 million µF/g, that is 150 farads/g, a very large capacitance! Hence the term "supercapacitors" or "ultracapacitors" for devices based on double-layer capacitance at high-area substrates."

Fred

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 27 02:00:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3R90TAn026984; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 02:00:44 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3R8Usxj015963; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 01:30:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 01:30:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=J3nDVkW2FW02gBx3jWkVeRYget39UG/UwGxfggTjTCtxBgboNR3N64N2WXUOnyVk; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006442783039824@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Helmholtz Region Capacitance Free Energy Puzzle Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 02:30:39 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940204e544295708a9616cbeeb8035e4294350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.182 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67810 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Minus 650 millivolt Zeta Potential? I could use that. :-) Fred http://tuberose.com/Hydrogen_and_Oxygen.html " A low surface tension in the extra cellular fluids is also important in the removal of toxins from the cells and into lymph and venous blood for removal from the body. When one 250 mg capsule of Mega H- is added to water the pH increases to approximately 8.5 and the ORP decreases to -650 millivolts, having tremendous implications for health. First the increased alkaline pH neutralizes the acid terrain of the body, so prevalent due to today's artificial and fast paced life style. Second, the -650 millivolts means the solution is rich in electrons loosely bound to hydrogen. When these special colloidal mineral clusters are added to ordinary distilled water, a number of extremely complex physical changes occur, including: 1) The high zeta potential attracts water molecules to the vicinity of the colloid where the water molecules are strongly polarized into forming hollow cages that resemble geodesic domes. 2) This ordering of molecules reduces the entropy of water. This means that there is an increase in free energy in water and the water can now support chemical reactions more easily and with less energy than before. 3) The surface tension or energy required to break the surface of water is greatly reduce. The phenomenon known as "wetting" is dependent on surface tension. The lower the surface tension the wetter the water. This means that the water requires less energy to wet substances. 4) The colloidal mineral cluster can act as vast reservoirs of negatively ionized hydrogen atoms. When these mineral clusters are taken on a daily basis, a significant increase in both aerobic and resistance training performance is experienced. Also, due to increased mitochondrial efficiency, one experiences rapid recovery from infections, inflammations and injuries, both acute and chronic. These geodesic dome-like cages were first predicted by two-time Nobel Prize winner, Linus Pauling, in 1959 in his classic book, The Hydrogen Bond." ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/27/2006 1:55:05 AM Subject: Re: Helmholtz Region Capacitance Free Energy Puzzle The Helmholtz Region Capacitance (HRC) occurs spontaneously upon contact of water with a surface, with Natural Free Energy (NFE) 1/2 CV^2 where V is the Zeta Potential. If a current (or microwave) is passed through a sealed porous material (a lump of charcoal or a brick) filled with water that is heated enough to evaporate and eliminate the (NFE) then allowed to cool and re-establish the NFE, is there a net Over-Unity energy? http://electrochem.cwru.edu/ed/encycl/art-c03-elchem-cap.htm " The Helmholtz region capacitance "CH" is of special significance for electrochemical capacitors since it is directly dependent on accessible electrode area and has large values (relative to those for regular dielectric capacitors) between about 16 µF/cm2 and about 40-50 µF/cm2, depending on electrode potential, the chemical nature of the metal surface, chemical nature of the solvent, and the types of ions (and their solvation by the solvent) present in the electrolyte solution. It was mentioned that the specific capacitances of electrode double layers are very large, some 10,000 times those of ordinary dielectric capacitors, per cm2 area. The reason for this is that the separation of charges in electrochemical double layers is on the order of 0.3-0.5 nm instead of 10 to 100 nm with oxide-film dielectrics (electrolytic capacitors) or 1000 nm with very thin mica or polystyrene dielectric-film hardware capacitors. Hence, it is seen that with large specific-area porous electrodes, for example at carbons having say 1000 m2/g of material and exhibiting, say, 15 µF/(real cm2) of double-layer capacitance in some suitable electrolyte solution, the accessible capacitance "C" is 1000 (m2/g) × 10,000 (cm2/m2) × 15 (µF/cm2) = 150 million µF/g, that is 150 farads/g, a very large capacitance! Hence the term "supercapacitors" or "ultracapacitors" for devices based on double-layer capacitance at high-area substrates." Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

Minus 650 millivolt Zeta Potential?

I could use that.  :-)

Fred

http://tuberose.com/Hydrogen_and_Oxygen.html

" A low surface tension in the extra cellular fluids is also important in the removal of toxins from the cells and into lymph and venous blood for removal from the body. When one 250 mg capsule of Mega H- is added to water the pH increases to approximately 8.5 and the ORP decreases to -650 millivolts, having tremendous implications for health. First the increased alkaline pH neutralizes the acid terrain of the body, so prevalent due to today's artificial and fast paced life style. Second, the -650 millivolts means the solution is rich in electrons loosely bound to hydrogen.

When these special colloidal mineral clusters are added to ordinary distilled water, a number of extremely complex physical changes occur, including:

1) The high zeta potential attracts water molecules to the vicinity of the colloid where the water molecules are strongly polarized into forming hollow cages that resemble geodesic domes.

2) This ordering of molecules reduces the entropy of water. This means that there is an increase in free energy in water and the water can now support chemical reactions more easily and with less energy than before.

3) The surface tension or energy required to break the surface of water is greatly reduce. The phenomenon known as "wetting" is dependent on surface tension. The lower the surface tension the wetter the water. This means that the water requires less energy to wet substances.

4) The colloidal mineral cluster can act as vast reservoirs of negatively ionized hydrogen atoms.

When these mineral clusters are taken on a daily basis, a significant increase in both aerobic and resistance training performance is experienced. Also, due to increased mitochondrial efficiency, one experiences rapid recovery from infections, inflammations and injuries, both acute and chronic. These geodesic dome-like cages were first predicted by two-time Nobel Prize winner, Linus Pauling, in 1959 in his classic book, The Hydrogen Bond."

----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/27/2006 1:55:05 AM
Subject: Re: Helmholtz Region Capacitance Free Energy Puzzle

The Helmholtz Region Capacitance  (HRC) occurs spontaneously upon contact
of water with a surface, with Natural Free Energy  (NFE) 1/2 CV^2  where V is the Zeta Potential.
 
If a current (or microwave) is passed through a sealed porous material (a lump of charcoal or a brick)
filled with water that is heated enough to evaporate and eliminate the (NFE) then allowed to
cool and re-establish the NFE, is there a net Over-Unity energy?
 
 
 
" The Helmholtz region capacitance "CH" is of special significance for electrochemical capacitors since it is directly dependent on accessible electrode area and has large values (relative to those for regular dielectric capacitors) between about 16 µF/cm2 and about 40-50 µF/cm2, depending on electrode potential, the chemical nature of the metal surface, chemical nature of the solvent, and the types of ions (and their solvation by the solvent) present in the electrolyte solution.

It was mentioned that the specific capacitances of electrode double layers are very large, some 10,000 times those of ordinary dielectric capacitors, per cm2 area. The reason for this is that the separation of charges in electrochemical double layers is on the order of 0.3-0.5 nm instead of 10 to 100 nm with oxide-film dielectrics (electrolytic capacitors) or 1000 nm with very thin mica or polystyrene dielectric-film hardware capacitors.

Hence, it is seen that with large specific-area porous electrodes, for example at carbons having say 1000 m2/g of material and exhibiting, say, 15 µF/(real cm2) of double-layer capacitance in some suitable electrolyte solution, the accessible capacitance "C" is 1000 (m2/g) × 10,000 (cm2/m2) × 15 (µF/cm2) = 150 million µF/g, that is 150 farads/g, a very large capacitance! Hence the term "supercapacitors" or "ultracapacitors" for devices based on double-layer capacitance at high-area substrates."

Fred

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Apr 27 13:11:16 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3RKB39A030286; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:11:04 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3RKB0oI030236; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:11:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:11:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=be+aDrPtzXZhNpYiC86j85VM7TleF1rkX0MXdnygfckn6RrAaGJDl5/tRroBFV+P; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064427171021565@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Helmholtz Region Capacitance Free Energy Puzzle Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 11:10:21 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94060f723b47f722ec448572d0528ff8150350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.120.229 Resent-Message-ID: <8_YimD.A.XYH.UVSUEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67811 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Add bubbling at the electrolyte-cathode-anode interfaces to random thermal motion plus Seebeck-Peltier-Thomson, and Contact Potential Effects, there are plenty of "Over-Unity" artifacts to consider. This excellent 44 page pdf covers Electrokinetic Phenomena, nicely. Fred http://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/bitstream/1842/286/3/grant90-3.pdf An ion or charged particle in an electrolyte exerts an influence on its immediate environment by virtue of its electric field. This electric field causes dipolar molecules in the immediate vicinity to orientate themselves according to the sign of the charge, like charged ions (co-ions) to be repelled from the area whereas oppositely charge ions (counter-ions) experience an attractive potential. As a consequence of the attractive potential counter ions would be expected to approach the charge until the smallest possible distance was achieved. However, the random thermal motion of ions in solution acts against this tendency. This combination of electrical potential energy and thermal energy gives rise to a locally organised region of electrolyte, whereby the ionic distribution in the vicinity of the charge results from the relative magnitudes of the two opposing factors. The resulting locally modified region is referred to, in the case of an ion, as the ionic atmosphere of the ion. Many solid surfaces, such as glass or most metals, acquire a charge through self ionisation when in contact with an electrolyte. In this case the surface together with its associated structured region of electrolyte is known as the electrical double layer. The latter is largely responsible for many of the observed electrokinetic effects and therefore merits some consideration. Here, the term electrokinetic effects is used as a Stem-Gouy-Chapman Model of the Electrical Double Layer In this model, which is depicted graphically by figure 3.1, the electrical double layer is viewed as consisting of two distinct regions, whereby the excess charges in the electrolyte are distributed between a layer of counter ions (the rigid layer) situated at the shortest possible distance from the charged surface and a diffuse layer. Diffuse Layer In this model of the diffuse part of the double layer the surface is considered to be flat and of infinite area. For such a hypothetical surface, in a vacuum, the electric field at any distance would be constant and thus the potential at any point would be infinite. Here, the potential is defined as the work done, per unit charge, in bringing a point charge dq from an infinite distance to its present position. In an electrolyte however, the presence of excess counter ions in the electrical double layer causes the field to drop with distance from the surface and thus the potential has a finite value. ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

Add bubbling at the electrolyte-cathode-anode interfaces to random thermal motion

plus Seebeck-Peltier-Thomson, and Contact Potential Effects, there are

plenty of "Over-Unity" artifacts to consider.

This excellent 44 page pdf covers Electrokinetic Phenomena, nicely.

Fred

http://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/bitstream/1842/286/3/grant90-3.pdf

An ion or charged particle in an electrolyte exerts an influence on its immediate

environment by virtue of its electric field. This electric field causes dipolar

molecules in the immediate vicinity to orientate themselves according to the sign

of the charge, like charged ions (co-ions) to be repelled from the area whereas

oppositely charge ions (counter-ions) experience an attractive potential. As a

consequence of the attractive potential counter ions would be expected to

approach the charge until the smallest possible distance was achieved. However,

the random thermal motion of ions in solution acts against this tendency. This

combination of electrical potential energy and thermal energy gives rise to a

locally organised region of electrolyte, whereby the ionic distribution in the

vicinity of the charge results from the relative magnitudes of the two opposing

factors. The resulting locally modified region is referred to, in the case of an ion,

as the ionic atmosphere of the ion. Many solid surfaces, such as glass or most

metals, acquire a charge through self ionisation when in contact with an

electrolyte. In this case the surface together with its associated structured region

of electrolyte is known as the electrical double layer. The latter is largely

responsible for many of the observed electrokinetic effects and therefore merits

some consideration. Here, the term electrokinetic effects is used as a

Stem-Gouy-Chapman Model of the Electrical Double Layer

In this model, which is depicted graphically by figure 3.1, the electrical double

layer is viewed as consisting of two distinct regions, whereby the excess charges in

the electrolyte are distributed between a layer of counter ions (the rigid layer)

situated at the shortest possible distance from the charged surface and a diffuse

layer. 

Diffuse Layer

In this model of the diffuse part of the double layer the surface is considered to

be flat and of infinite area. For such a hypothetical surface, in a vacuum, the

electric field at any distance would be constant and thus the potential at any

point would be infinite. Here, the potential is defined as the work done, per unit

charge, in bringing a point charge dq from an infinite distance to its present

position. In an electrolyte however, the presence of excess counter ions in the

electrical double layer causes the field to drop with distance from the surface and

thus the potential has a finite value.

 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 28 01:55:20 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3S8tC1Y016434; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 01:55:12 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3S8tAoD016404; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 01:55:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 01:55:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=a7+9rdDT3jZ88J3E74HKHjtoT1hwY+j2nCWt3S2O/MMG659MS3LfA5F57qm7VYck; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064528855443@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Neutrinos, Argon-40 and Potassium-40 & Carbon-14 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 02:55:04 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9401cf9b5862b9a38a1f6c6e23f299bf51c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.51 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67812 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Strange. Out of the ~ 32 billion per cm^2 per sec solar neutrino flux, an occasional neutrino converts stable Argon-40 to Radio-Potassium-40, (1/2 life 1.277 billion years) but another neutrino converts Radio-Potassium-40 to stable Calcium-40. Another neutrino converts Radiocarbon-14 (1/2 life 5,715 years) to stable Nitrogen-14. How old is are you anyhow? Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Strange.
 
Out of the ~ 32 billion per cm^2 per sec solar neutrino flux, an occasional neutrino converts
stable Argon-40 to Radio-Potassium-40, (1/2 life 1.277 billion years) but another neutrino converts
Radio-Potassium-40 to stable Calcium-40.
Another neutrino converts Radiocarbon-14  (1/2 life 5,715 years) to stable Nitrogen-14.
 
How old is are you anyhow?
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 28 06:25:03 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3SDOlRs018869; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 06:24:47 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3SDOj0t018823; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 06:24:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 06:24:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060428092301.03dd84a0@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 09:24:43 -0400 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Melvin H. Miles web site Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_1956156==.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67813 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=====================_1956156==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Here is a new web site: http://coldfusion-miles.com/ I will put links to this at LENR-CANR.org, soon. Also, Mizuno sent me his ICCF8 paper: Mizuno, T., et al. Confirmation of Heat Generation and Anomalous Element Caused by Plasma Electrolysis in the Liquid. in 8th International Conference on Cold Fusion. 2000. Lerici (La Spezia), Italy: Italian Physical Society, Bologna, Italy. I will upload it today. - Jed --=====================_1956156==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Here is a new web site:

http://coldfusion-miles.com/

I will put links to this at LENR-CANR.org, soon.

Also, Mizuno sent me his ICCF8 paper:

Mizuno, T., et al. Confirmation of Heat Generation and Anomalous Element Caused by Plasma Electrolysis in the Liquid. in 8th International Conference on Cold Fusion. 2000. Lerici (La Spezia), Italy: Italian Physical Society, Bologna, Italy.

I will upload it today.

- Jed
--=====================_1956156==.ALT-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 28 07:03:02 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3SE2YHN010976; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 07:02:35 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3SE2XTi010946; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 07:02:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 07:02:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 10:02:30 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net Message-Id: <8C838E385DD1070-2514-11DF@mblkn-m02.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Beyond Petroleum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.66 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67814 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Formerly British Petroleum, BP has a new moniker; so, what does this mean? Maybe they recognize the following. World consumption of oil in 2003 was 80.1 Mbbl/da: http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/international/iealf/table12.xls With an annual growth of 1.6 Mbbl/da putting current consumption at approximately 85 Mbbl/da. With current reserves at an estimated 1.3 Tbbl (conservative), we have about 42 years left. Of course, nuclear war or financial collapse will occur long before that. So what *is* "beyond petroleum". Maybe this plant in Qatar by Chevron is an answer: http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/04/sasol_chevron_s.html since we do have almost 7 Pcu.ft. of natural gas. Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 28 07:07:01 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3SE6jYl013218; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 07:06:45 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3SE6gQ7013198; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 07:06:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 07:06:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 10:06:37 -0400 Message-Id: <8C838E4195FB318-2514-1209@mblkn-m02.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <8C838E385DD1070-2514-11DF@mblkn-m02.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <8C838E385DD1070-2514-11DF@mblkn-m02.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Beyond Petroleum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.66 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3SE6eXa013163 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67815 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Forgot the reserves estimate reference: http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/reserves.xls -----Original Message----- From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 10:02:30 -0400 Subject: Beyond Petroleum Formerly British Petroleum, BP has a new moniker; so, what does this mean? Maybe they recognize the following.    World consumption of oil in 2003 was 80.1 Mbbl/da:    http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/international/iealf/table12.xls    With an annual growth of 1.6 Mbbl/da putting current consumption at approximately 85 Mbbl/da. With current reserves at an estimated 1.3 Tbbl (conservative), we have about 42 years left. Of course, nuclear war or financial collapse will occur long before that.    So what *is* "beyond petroleum". Maybe this plant in Qatar by Chevron is an answer:    http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/04/sasol_chevron_s.html    since we do have almost 7 Pcu.ft. of natural gas.    Terry  ___________________________________________________  Try the New Netscape Mail Today!  Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List  http://mail.netscape.com    ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 28 08:55:14 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3SFt134009269; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 08:55:05 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3SFsohX009170; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 08:54:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 08:54:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: Thermite fun Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 10:54:40 -0500 Message-ID: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50BB796FD@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Thermite fun Thread-Index: AcZq3A9JGXpMqcHoRdaoDTNE4JdRoA== From: "Zell, Chris" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Apr 2006 15:54:48.0528 (UTC) FILETIME=[13DDA500:01C66ADC] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3SFsl49009125 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67816 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: See: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7231843493488769585&q=thermite& pl=true Lots of fun with thermite From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 28 09:46:41 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3SGkQiZ006298; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 09:46:27 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3SGkOZR006282; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 09:46:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 09:46:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <008d01c66ae3$45b9c200$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50BB796FD@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> Subject: Re: Thermite fun Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 09:46:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67817 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zell, Chris" > Lots of fun with thermite Surprised that they didn't get Jim Caey and Jeff Daniels to help out with that one... Not to worry... we can add the obligatory dumb-and-dumber humor, here on Vo. ... and hey: Not coincidental that the Steven Jones vid. is in with these, eh? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6023596331085044923&pl=true Many who do not know what thermite is, have mistakenly assumed that it must be "like dynamite" and have wondered how any sane building owner could 'rig' a building with it, far in advance (even a decade in advance is not out of the question) and not expect an accidental discharge. "Sane' being a key concept which is often overruled by 'greed'. The stuff is real hard to ignite, and burns very hot. Of course, no one would knowingly work in any high-rise which has been preloaded with it - which is why they (building owners and architects) don't want this 'minor' detail known... As about half of the secretaries in Lower Manhattan would go on strike and stop 'dictation' or whatever they do for their bosses, if they knew their building was on "the list," as was WTC. Hmmm...what was that detail about the WTC "rubble fire" going on for weeks on end - and at "far higher" temperature than the well-known burn temperature of jet fuel. Ah shucks, that's just a wild and ridiculous conspiracy theory, no? Signed, Harry Tuttle Ductwork technician and thermite-eradicator From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 28 10:01:21 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3SH0usn014035; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 10:01:01 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3SH0ttE014021; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 10:00:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 10:00:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <032a01c66ae5$4f56ee30$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50BB796FD@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> <008d01c66ae3$45b9c200$6401a8c0@NuDell> Subject: Re: Thermite fun Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 19:00:32 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67818 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Harry Tuttle Strange, when I printed it out it read "Buttle". Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jones Beene" To: Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 6:46 PM Subject: Re: Thermite fun > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Zell, Chris" > >> Lots of fun with thermite > > Surprised that they didn't get Jim Caey and Jeff Daniels to help > out with that one... > > Not to worry... we can add the obligatory dumb-and-dumber humor, > here on Vo. > > ... and hey: Not coincidental that the Steven Jones vid. is in > with these, eh? > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6023596331085044923&pl=true > > > Many who do not know what thermite is, have mistakenly assumed > that it must be "like dynamite" and have wondered how any sane > building owner could 'rig' a building with it, far in advance > (even a decade in advance is not out of the question) and not > expect an accidental discharge. "Sane' being a key concept which > is often overruled by 'greed'. > > The stuff is real hard to ignite, and burns very hot. Of course, > no one would knowingly work in any high-rise which has been > preloaded with it - which is why they (building owners and > architects) don't want this 'minor' detail known... As about half > of the secretaries in Lower Manhattan would go on strike and stop > 'dictation' or whatever they do for their bosses, if they knew > their building was on "the list," as was WTC. > > Hmmm...what was that detail about the WTC "rubble fire" going on > for weeks on end - and at "far higher" temperature than the > well-known burn temperature of jet fuel. > > Ah shucks, that's just a wild and ridiculous conspiracy theory, > no? > > Signed, > > Harry Tuttle > Ductwork technician and thermite-eradicator > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 28 10:07:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3SH70bQ017510; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 10:07:00 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3SH6wuw017485; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 10:06:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 10:06:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <033401c66ae6$27ce9470$3800a8c0@zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060428092301.03dd84a0@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Melvin H. Miles web site Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 19:06:46 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67819 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed you already had this one actually: MizunoTconfirmatia.pdf I think Ludwik was looking for an earlier paper (this one is a confirmation) Michel > Also, Mizuno sent me his ICCF8 paper: > > Mizuno, T., et al. Confirmation of Heat Generation and Anomalous > Element Caused by Plasma Electrolysis in the Liquid. in 8th > International Conference on Cold Fusion. 2000. Lerici (La Spezia), > Italy: Italian Physical Society, Bologna, Italy. > > I will upload it today. > > - Jed > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 28 10:08:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3SH7eVq017863; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 10:07:41 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3SH7bZq017833; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 10:07:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 10:07:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <30186607.1146244052804.JavaMail.root@fepweb01> Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 10:07:32 -0700 From: OrionWorks To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Thermite fun Cc: Michel Jullian MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Sensitivity: Normal Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67820 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From ---- Michel Jullian> > Harry Tuttle > > Strange, when I printed it out it read "Buttle". > > Michel "Brazil" was a wonderful film. Depressing, but wonderful, nevertheless. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 28 10:47:46 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3SHlTl5007530; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 10:47:29 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3SHlOiK007498; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 10:47:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 10:47:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 10:47:23 -0700 From: Mark S Bilk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Explosives and Thermite in the WTC Towers -was: Thermite fun Message-ID: <20060428174723.GC20866@linux> References: <29E5343E7F6959449B97C93EB07190C50BB796FD@CCUMAIL24.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> <008d01c66ae3$45b9c200$6401a8c0@NuDell> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <008d01c66ae3$45b9c200$6401a8c0@NuDell> Organization: http://www.cosmicpenguin.com/911 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67821 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The primary researcher on the subject of the WTC towers having built-in explosives (but not detonators) is Christopher Brown, a surveyor and heavy-machine operator (among other professions) who is very familiar with construction practices. Here's his website: http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html He found that each tower had a huge reinforced-concrete core (which was omitted from the FEMA diagrams and replaced with additional steel box columns). The core can be seen in a few frames of the demolition videos. He and others also saw a PBS documentary around 1990 that showed the construction procedure in detail, including the pouring of the core around 3 inch thick rebars. These rebars had a thick coating of a rubbery material that was said to protect them from corrosion and to provide some cushioning and "give" between them and the concrete. Strangely enough, this coating was extremely flammable, and the welding of the rebars to those of each new level was done by special welders with security clearances! Chris thinks the coating was C4, or something similar. Here are articles I found in a search of the Web and Usenet that mention the cores: http://cosmicpenguin.com/911/chrisbrown/corerefs/index.html The thermite (or similar material), which was mainly used at the base of the steel columns, may have been put in place shortly before 9-11. The hollow columns probably had inspection holes, and the powder could have been poured inside them, which would have eliminated the need for refractory dams to contain the combustion product while it melted through the columns. By substituting another oxidizer for the iron oxide in thermite, one in which the oxygen is much less tightly bound, the energy of the reaction can be increased substantially. Mark On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 09:46:17AM -0700, Jones Beene wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Zell, Chris" > >>Lots of fun with thermite > >Surprised that they didn't get Jim Caey and Jeff Daniels to help >out with that one... > >Not to worry... we can add the obligatory dumb-and-dumber humor, >here on Vo. > >... and hey: Not coincidental that the Steven Jones vid. is in >with these, eh? > >http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6023596331085044923&pl=true > >Many who do not know what thermite is, have mistakenly assumed >that it must be "like dynamite" and have wondered how any sane >building owner could 'rig' a building with it, far in advance >(even a decade in advance is not out of the question) and not >expect an accidental discharge. "Sane' being a key concept which >is often overruled by 'greed'. > >The stuff is real hard to ignite, and burns very hot. Of course, >no one would knowingly work in any high-rise which has been >preloaded with it - which is why they (building owners and >architects) don't want this 'minor' detail known... As about half >of the secretaries in Lower Manhattan would go on strike and stop >'dictation' or whatever they do for their bosses, if they knew >their building was on "the list," as was WTC. > >Hmmm...what was that detail about the WTC "rubble fire" going on >for weeks on end - and at "far higher" temperature than the >well-known burn temperature of jet fuel. > >Ah shucks, that's just a wild and ridiculous conspiracy theory, >no? > >Signed, > >Harry Tuttle > Ductwork technician and thermite-eradicator > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 28 11:19:17 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3SIIpJ5023424; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 11:18:51 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3SIIlvM023371; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 11:18:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 11:18:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=BiQ8j4Nta+Nz2LqwAovEaakof3FPdPRvC+Czub405ZnlhD55nSVbvQXiYor/Wzgu; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064528181831655@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Beyond Petroleum Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 12:18:31 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94019448c783f53d84745987037e3b77624350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.170 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67822 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII That 60% thermal efficiency for methane to diesel is about tops for a synthesis gas (CO + nH2) reaction, Terry. 1, CH4 + Hot Steam + Catalyst ----> CO + 2 H2 2, (CO + 2 H2) + Fischer- Tropsch Catalyst -----> CH3-(CH2)-CH3 Diesel + H2O With H2O recycle it works well in the desert. Synthesis Gas from coal: C + H2O ----> CO + H2 requires an additional Carbon to the H2:CO ratio right. OTOH, if you want to run on Acetic Acid (CH3-CO-OH vinegar, a combustion step in burning Ethanol before it puts out air-polluting Acetaldehyde (CH3-CO-H ): CH4 + CO2 -+ Heat-Catalyst ----> CH3-CO-OH Fermented "Applejack" :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
That 60% thermal efficiency for methane to diesel is about
tops for a synthesis gas (CO + nH2) reaction, Terry.
 
1, CH4 + Hot Steam  + Catalyst ----> CO + 2 H2
 
2, (CO + 2 H2)  +  Fischer- Tropsch Catalyst ----->   CH3-(CH2)-CH3 Diesel  +  H2O
 
With H2O recycle it works well in the desert.
 
Synthesis Gas from coal:
 
C + H2O ----> CO + H2 requires an additional Carbon to the H2:CO ratio right.
 
OTOH, if you want to run on Acetic Acid (CH3-CO-OH vinegar, a combustion step
in burning Ethanol before it puts out  air-polluting Acetaldehyde (CH3-CO-H ):
 
CH4 + CO2 -+ Heat-Catalyst ---->   CH3-CO-OH   Fermented "Applejack"    :-)
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 28 11:23:50 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3SINYOI026025; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 11:23:34 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3SINUQ7025977; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 11:23:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 11:23:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=k6WaYfKmdPS1tA6wQFPp6/4H/ZgI7vWoxfLFaPpGyvHUPQujHBEbvej73BAmUr20; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064528182328802@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Beyond Petroleum Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 12:23:28 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9408bc30f640aa9a707a3db0e9dfbb4478e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.170 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67823 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Correction: 1, CH4 + Hot Steam + Catalyst ----> CO + 3 H2 ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/28/2006 12:18:22 PM Subject: Re: Beyond Petroleum That 60% thermal efficiency for methane to diesel is about tops for a synthesis gas (CO + nH2) reaction, Terry. 1, CH4 + Hot Steam + Catalyst ----> CO + 2 H2 2, (CO + 2 H2) + Fischer- Tropsch Catalyst -----> CH3-(CH2)-CH3 Diesel + H2O With H2O recycle it works well in the desert. Synthesis Gas from coal: C + H2O ----> CO + H2 requires an additional Carbon to get the H2:CO ratio right. OTOH, if you want to run on Acetic Acid (CH3-CO-OH vinegar, a combustion step in burning Ethanol before it puts out air-polluting Acetaldehyde (CH3-CO-H ): CH4 + CO2 -+ Heat-Catalyst ----> CH3-CO-OH Fermented "Applejack" :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Correction:
 
1, CH4 + Hot Steam  + Catalyst ----> CO + 3 H2
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/28/2006 12:18:22 PM
Subject: Re: Beyond Petroleum

That 60% thermal efficiency for methane to diesel is about
tops for a synthesis gas (CO + nH2) reaction, Terry.
 
1, CH4 + Hot Steam  + Catalyst ----> CO + 2 H2
 
2, (CO + 2 H2)  +  Fischer- Tropsch Catalyst ----->   CH3-(CH2)-CH3 Diesel  +  H2O
 
With H2O recycle it works well in the desert.
 
Synthesis Gas from coal:
 
C + H2O ----> CO + H2 requires an additional Carbon to get the H2:CO ratio right.
 
OTOH, if you want to run on Acetic Acid (CH3-CO-OH vinegar, a combustion step
in burning Ethanol before it puts out  air-polluting Acetaldehyde (CH3-CO-H ):
 
CH4 + CO2 -+ Heat-Catalyst ---->   CH3-CO-OH   Fermented "Applejack"    :-)
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 28 12:07:17 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3SJ74in018955; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 12:07:04 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3SJ70UK018903; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 12:07:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 12:07:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:06:55 -0400 Message-Id: <8C8390E0CCD1238-2658-A56A@mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <410-220064528181831655@earthlink.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <410-220064528181831655@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Beyond Petroleum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.130 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67824 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Frederick Sparber That 60% thermal efficiency for methane to diesel is about tops for a synthesis gas (CO + nH2) reaction, Terry. <><><><><><><> Well, 2/3rds of MARTA's 600 bus fleet are now CNG; but, the problem is tranport. I'd just as soon drive a CNG car. But, we can't build a transatlantic gas pipeline. Or can we? Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 28 14:00:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3SL0525022404; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:00:30 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3SKcdVk010905; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 13:38:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 13:38:39 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Ny8tYmZNkC1EWZJYt4PgcbN0mj1Sh3AhlgUHWoe+1/lJ6wgg+9Y063tiKbLq+MZA; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064528203624206@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Beyond Petroleum Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:36:24 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94095c767bfdc925936bc1066a2f6630923350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.228 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67825 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Terry wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Frederick Sparber > > That 60% thermal efficiency for methane to diesel is about > tops for a synthesis gas (CO + nH2) reaction, Terry. > > <><><><><><><> > > Well, 2/3rds of MARTA's 600 bus fleet are now CNG; but, the problem is > tranport. I'd just as soon drive a CNG car. But, we can't build a > transatlantic gas pipeline. > > Or can we? > Don't need one. About enough Methane Hydrate off the coast near you to last a century/s or more, Besides we looked at the Fischer-Tropsch Methane to Diesel for small self sustained plants at remote gas wells. Doable technology. Fred > > Terry > ___________________________________________________ > Try the New Netscape Mail Today! > Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List > http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 28 14:18:16 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3SLHdgU003151; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:17:39 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3SLHadf003129; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:17:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:17:36 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=ix.netcom.com; b=gZbblIsCio0szygp8s3gzhRGzPZWAx2VgKI2FW5HyrMFRopac+fsyvedPS50sUfP; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006452821455130@ix.netcom.com> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: aki@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.1.47.0 (Windows) From: "" To: "vortex-l" Subject: FW: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday April 28, 2006 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:04:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: c4cc7f5f697e8746f66dc3a06d5924d822766702b1594b362d6180c19bb5105c80a966c17e7b0748350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 216.175.99.229 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67826 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: forward from aki@ix.netcom.com (Akira Kawasaki) > [Original Message] > From: What's New > To: Date: 4/28/2006 1:51:40 PM Subject: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday April 28, 2006 WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 28 Apr 06 Washington, DC 1. LEAKS: THE CONFLICT BETWEEN DEMOCRACY AND GOVERNMENT SECRECY. CIA officer Mary McCarthy denies having disclosed the existence of CIA-run prisons in Eastern Europe for suspected terrorists. But if she did leak it, she deserves the gratitude of every American. As Americans learned of Nazi atrocities in WWII, the usual reaction was, "they couldn't get American boys to do that." Now we outsource it. Conscientious government employees, willing to risk their careers by leaking classified information Americans should know about, may be the only check on government excesses carried out behind the curtain of national security. Governments everywhere love official secrecy; it gives them total control over information flow. President Bush doesn't leak. As former White House press secretary Scott McClellan explained, anything the President says publically is automatically declassified. 2. PASSING GAS: MAYBE HIGH GASOLINE PRICES AREN'T THE PROBLEM. The outcry over the price at the pump has politicians scurrying to come up with immediate relief: Republican Senators proposed putting a $100 bill under everybody's pillow. This is direct and simple. In fact, it's the perfect response to every complaint, not just high gas prices. Sen. Menendez (D-NJ) called for a 60- day suspension of the federal tax on fuel. That'll work too, but people will be even happier if we make it permanent. After all, the national debt is so far out of control it no longer matters. Republicans also want to start exploring for oil in wildlife refuges. That won't help much in the short term, but a chance to screw environmentalists doesn't come up every day. In short, American ingenuity will find a way. Or we could just let gas prices rise a little, but that might encourage a change to more fuel efficient cars, public transportation, getting a little exercise, cleaner air, shorter commutes, less traffic... 3. PARTICLE PHYSICS: IT'S TIME TO GET BEYOND THE SUPERCOLLIDER. On Wednesday, 13 years after the death of the SSC on a Texas prairie, an NRC committee chaired by Harold Shapiro released its report on Elementary Particle Physics in the 21st Century. To no one's surprise, the report urges the United States to "seize the opportunity to lead" and host the next particle accelerator. The world's most powerful accelerator at Fermilab will shut down by 2010. By that time the LHC in Geneva will be in operation. The location of an even more powerful accelerator, the International Linear Collider (ILC), has not been decided but the committee clearly believes it should be in the United States. 4. WHICH WAY IS MECCA? AND FOR THAT MATTER, WHAT TIME IS IT? Malaysia is preparing to send one of its citizens to the ISS in 2007 on a Russian mission. It will probably be a Muslim, so a computer program called Muslims in Space has been developed to answer these weightless questions. It wouldn't be the first time an astronaut has prayed, but others haven't needed a computer. THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND. Opinions are the author's and not necessarily shared by the University of Maryland, but they should be. --- Archives of What's New can be found at http://www.bobpark.org What's New is moving to a different listserver and our subscription process has changed. To change your subscription status please visit this link: http://listserv.umd.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=bobparks-whatsnew&A=1 From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 28 15:01:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3SM1flB026711; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:01:42 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3SM1dYW026673; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:01:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:01:39 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=NWp7wx2YW+AqzhruHaCU1a8eT3KadoPRc5tlKXoANDEk8qhMMR6VnSH+TwHtzn7d; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006452822124632@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Beyond Petroleum Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 16:01:24 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9400520de061781da64d24ece5a568432f3350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.143 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67827 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII BTW, Terry. If you are really serious (and cheap) buy an LN2 de war and install a LNG bottle inside it. with an electric heater. The LN2 Boils at - 321 F and the LNG Freezes at -297 F. boils at -256 F. That way you can tap the gas right off your gas meter at about 34 cents a pound and with a cheap LN2 source, beat the $3.00+/gallon gas pump cost without needing a compressor. :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
BTW, Terry.
 
If you are really serious (and cheap) buy an LN2 de war
and install a LNG bottle inside it. with an electric heater.
 
The LN2 Boils at - 321 F and the LNG Freezes
at -297 F. boils at -256 F. 
 
That way you can tap the gas right off your
gas meter at about 34 cents a pound and with
a cheap LN2 source, beat the $3.00+/gallon gas pump cost
without needing a compressor.  :-)
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 28 15:47:50 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3SMlX19015882; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:47:33 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3SMlSWu015845; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:47:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:47:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=csgNzW8dq3ooFAQyXLiO9nf8NL4u+ZkZ6a9vUBn42dfuxeluSlQiOCYAjPXBGcqG; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064528224723648@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Beyond Petroleum Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 16:47:23 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940dc3de4937ae6ed7c5a8caef9223c6201350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.43 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67828 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Good info on Cryogen (LN2 & LNG) handling and properties. http://www.llnl.gov/es_and_h/hsm/doc_18.05/doc18-05.html No Frozen Natural Gas (FNG) info though. :-) Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/28/2006 4:11:08 PM Subject: Re: Beyond Petroleum BTW, Terry. If you are really serious (and cheap) buy an LN2 de war and install a LNG bottle inside it. with an electric heater. The LN2 Boils at - 321 F and the LNG Freezes at -297 F. boils at -256 F. That way you can tap the gas right off your gas meter at about 34 cents a pound and with a cheap LN2 source, beat the $3.00+/gallon gas pump cost without needing a compressor. :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Good info on Cryogen  (LN2 & LNG) handling and properties.
 
 
No Frozen Natural Gas (FNG) info though. :-)
 
Fred
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/28/2006 4:11:08 PM
Subject: Re: Beyond Petroleum

BTW, Terry.
 
If you are really serious (and cheap) buy an LN2 de war
and install a LNG bottle inside it. with an electric heater.
 
The LN2 Boils at - 321 F and the LNG Freezes
at -297 F. boils at -256 F. 
 
That way you can tap the gas right off your
gas meter at about 34 cents a pound and with
a cheap LN2 source, beat the $3.00+/gallon gas pump cost
without needing a compressor.  :-)
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 28 17:07:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3T078tl019713; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 17:07:09 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3T0764X019693; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 17:07:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 17:07:06 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060428200626.03f29088@mindspring.com> Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060428192958.03ef8670@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 20:06:59 -0400 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Famous letter from Lindley Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_32540281==.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67829 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=====================_32540281==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed During the course of a discussion elsewhere, I uploaded a famous letter from Lindley to Noninski: http://www.lenr-canr.org/Collections/Lindley.jpg The first paragraph is remarkable. Noninski wrote a critique of Lewis, and Lindley sent the critique to Lewis himself for "advice." In other words, he asked Lewis whether a critique of his own paper should be accepted or rejected, and Lewis decided that his own work was valid and should not be critiqued. However, this is not quite as bad as it looks. Note that the paper was rejected by an "independent reviewer" in the first round. As I recall, this letter was sent after the second or third round. Noninski tried to rewrite the paper to satisfy the independent reviewer. In the later round, Lindley decided to skip the independent review and have this paper checked by Lewis directly. The first paragraph is, shall we say, unconventional and surprising. Let's leave it at that. When you look carefully, you will see that it is the second paragraph which is truly mind blowing. This copy was sent to me by Melvin Miles, and I believe it was he who marked the second paragraph. Read it carefully. For lack of a better word, let me suggest you savor it, and analyze it step by step, the way a translator might carefully takes prise apart a cryptic sentence in an ancient document in a forgotten language. You may have to read through it several times before you realize what Lindley is saying, and what he demands of Noninski. Let us list some of the weird assertions Lindley has packed into these few short but telling sentences: 1. Lindley demands that Noninski find a single reason -- an equation -- that would simultaneously prove that all negative experiments, including Harwell and others, are actually positive. 2. In other words, but Lindley asserts that all cold fusion experimental results are uniform. The experiments all produced the same result. One explanation must account for all of them. Lindley rejects the idea that some null experiments failed for one reason and some for another. Actually, it appears this idea never crossed his mind. He thinks that all experiments produce a single yes or no result that can only be explained by a single set of equations. The effect either exists or does not, and all experiments automatically prove the issue one way or another. In reality, Lewis got positive heat but he made a mistake in his equation, so he did not recognize it. In many other experiments the result was actually negative because the cathodes cracked, or people did not wait long enough, or the surface was contaminated, or the experiment failed for any of a hundred other reasons. Lewis made a mistake in his equations, but many other researchers used in the proper equations and actually did get a negative result. Noninski did not prove that other negative results were actually positive, and he never set out to do that or claimed he had done that. He did not even address these other experiments. But Lindley assumed this is what Noninski was trying to do. We assume that the wide variety of puzzling and varying results, both positive and negative, indicate that the experiment is complicated and that it is difficult to understand what is happening. Again, this thought apparently never crossed Lindley's mind. 3. Getting back to wild assertions, Lindley apparently believes that Noninski's methods are "unorthodox" and that he is trying to make a special case, or invent new physics, when in fact Noninski is only asserting that ordinary, conventional equations should be applied. Noninski is saying that Lewis made a mistake. (To summarize very briefly Lewis assumed the calibration constant changed, when in fact it remained the same and the apparent change was caused by excess heat.) It is astounding that an editor of Nature could be so appallingly ignorant of how experiments are conducted, how varied & complex they are, and how people go about interpreting the results. Lindley seems to have comic book level understanding of experimental science. - Jed --=====================_32540281==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" During the course of a discussion elsewhere, I uploaded a famous letter from Lindley to Noninski:

http://www.lenr-canr.org/Collections/Lindley.jpg

The first paragraph is remarkable. Noninski wrote a critique of Lewis, and Lindley sent the critique to Lewis himself for "advice." In other words, he asked Lewis whether a critique of his own paper should be accepted or rejected, and Lewis decided that his own work was valid and should not be critiqued. However, this is not quite as bad as it looks. Note that the paper was rejected by an "independent reviewer" in the first round. As I recall, this letter was sent after the second or third round. Noninski tried to rewrite the paper to satisfy the independent reviewer. In the later  round, Lindley decided to skip the independent review and have this paper checked by Lewis directly.

The first paragraph is, shall we say, unconventional and surprising. Let's leave it at that. When you look carefully, you will see that it is the second paragraph which is truly mind blowing. This copy was sent to me by Melvin Miles, and I believe it was he who marked the second paragraph. Read it carefully. For lack of a better word, let me suggest you savor it, and analyze it step by step, the way a translator might carefully takes prise apart a cryptic sentence in an ancient document in a forgotten language. You may have to read through it several times before you realize what Lindley is saying, and what he demands of Noninski. Let us list some of the weird assertions Lindley has packed into these few short but telling sentences:

1. Lindley demands that Noninski find a single reason -- an equation -- that would simultaneously prove that all negative experiments, including Harwell and others, are actually positive.

2. In other words, but Lindley asserts that all cold fusion experimental results are uniform. The experiments all produced the same result. One explanation must account for all of them. Lindley rejects the idea that some null experiments failed for one reason and some for another. Actually, it appears this idea never crossed his mind. He thinks that all experiments produce a single yes or no result that can only be explained by a single set of equations. The effect either exists or does not, and all experiments automatically prove the issue one way or another.

In reality, Lewis got positive heat but he made a mistake in his equation, so he did not recognize it. In many other experiments the result was actually negative because the cathodes cracked, or people did not wait long enough, or the surface was contaminated, or the experiment failed for any of a hundred other reasons. Lewis made a mistake in his equations, but many other researchers used in the proper equations and actually did get a negative result. Noninski did not prove that other negative results were actually positive, and he never set out to do that or claimed he had done that. He did not even address these other experiments. But Lindley assumed this is what Noninski was trying to do.

We assume that the wide variety of puzzling and varying results, both positive and negative, indicate that the experiment is complicated and that it is difficult to understand what is happening. Again, this thought apparently never crossed Lindley's mind.

3. Getting back to wild assertions, Lindley apparently believes that Noninski's methods are "unorthodox" and that he is trying to make a special case, or invent new physics, when in fact Noninski is only asserting that ordinary, conventional equations should be applied. Noninski is saying that Lewis made a mistake. (To summarize very briefly Lewis assumed the calibration constant changed, when in fact it remained the same and the apparent change was caused by excess heat.)

It is astounding that an editor of Nature could be so appallingly ignorant of how experiments are conducted, how varied & complex they are, and how people go about interpreting the results. Lindley seems to have comic book level understanding of experimental science.

- Jed
--=====================_32540281==.ALT-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Apr 28 18:20:08 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3T1Jlj7014584; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 18:19:47 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3T1JjJL014571; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 18:19:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 18:19:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 00:06:09 -0400 From: Pteranodon Subject: Re: FW: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday April 28, 2006 In-reply-to: <410-22006452821455130@ix.netcom.com> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-to: rockcastle@lakeside1.net Message-id: <200604290006.09247.rockcastle@lakeside1.net> Organization: Rockcastle Associates MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline References: <410-22006452821455130@ix.netcom.com> User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67830 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Friday 28 April 2006 17:04, wrote: > forward from aki@ix.netcom.com (Akira Kawasaki) > > > [Original Message] > > From: What's New > > To: > > Date: 4/28/2006 1:51:40 PM > Subject: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday April 28, 2006 > > 4. WHICH WAY IS MECCA? AND FOR THAT MATTER, WHAT TIME IS IT? > Malaysia is preparing to send one of its citizens to the ISS in > 2007 on a Russian mission. It will probably be a Muslim, so a > computer program called Muslims in Space has been developed to > answer these weightless questions. It wouldn't be the first time > an astronaut has prayed, but others haven't needed a computer. > A thought about the Muslims/Moslems/whatever in space. A device like a rotisserie that is aligned with the axis of the earth and hardmounted somewhere convenient would do fine. It would have to have a platform welded to its 'spit axis' . In replacement of the usual rare and well done controls would be a set of controls for a timing mechanism worked out to set platform to always face a point, Mecca, about 3900 or so miles from the axis of the earth given an input of the earth's true diameter at the latitude below the ship, the angular orbital velocity of the ship and the orbit height. Moslems/Muslims do not seem to be as hinky about possibilities of finding life among the other planets like some rabid Christians who seem to like earthbound superstition....just an observation. The real test will be when an M__ goes on a Mars mission. He/she might as well just face earth then. Similarly interstellar travelers may want to just face our central star whereever it is in the heavens to them wherever they are. Mars is all desert. M___'s may like the place. All kidding aside, all religions may want to pause at the news from Australia about the woman scientist who found nanobacteria with sizes below 20 nanometers for cellular diameter. She found these not only in hot rocks thousands of feet below the bottom of the ocean off Western Australia (drilling rig found them), but also fossilized remains of the same in Martian meteorites. She feels that nanobacteriums may really be the dominant lifeform on this planet in terms of biomass. She has found that these organisms are very tough, and can stand life in space inside rocks. This gives rise to speculation that life on earth here began out there, somewhere among the stars! Pteranodon From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 29 01:29:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3T8T3a4017373; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 01:29:03 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3T8T1WR017350; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 01:29:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 01:29:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=aO4i69FoIylfLFhJgXNQFuMcokHSjTBlGjaoKuan/eyfzXLvNjURBpmch33osIqx; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006462982854151@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Beyond Petroleum Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 02:28:54 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9408b13708f6ae3671dbc01f14ae5c0627f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.234 Resent-Message-ID: <7umnLD.A.3OE.MPyUEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67831 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII For LN2 and LNG storage, Terry. :-) http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/srchnum.htm US Patent 6,021,043 Pulse Tube Cryogenic Refrigerator ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
For LN2 and LNG storage, Terry.   :-)
 
 
US Patent 6,021,043  Pulse Tube Cryogenic Refrigerator
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 29 01:42:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3T8gNx3022743; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 01:42:23 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3T8gL0T022718; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 01:42:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 01:42:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=jowEjmzk4CwYhgNgcuY2kuiN1hEdrSp4iZT5Gepc1fHg1NXXkpLY2w90YpzW9D20; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200646298422182@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Beyond Petroleum Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 02:42:21 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9402eaec169e75f6efdc24e68e63608496f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.12 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67832 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Pulse Tube Cryogenic Coolers. http://irtek.arc.nasa.gov/CryoPTHist.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/29/2006 2:28:51 AM Subject: Re: Beyond Petroleum For LN2 and LNG storage, Terry. :-) http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/srchnum.htm US Patent 6,021,043 Pulse Tube Cryogenic Refrigerator ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Pulse Tube Cryogenic Coolers.
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/29/2006 2:28:51 AM
Subject: Re: Beyond Petroleum

For LN2 and LNG storage, Terry.   :-)
 
 
US Patent 6,021,043  Pulse Tube Cryogenic Refrigerator
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 29 02:18:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3T9Iig7003594; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 02:18:44 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3T9IeSr003545; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 02:18:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 02:18:40 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=P3visTuw949vL7TZIHdmsyXxUzOKLm1/5bwtFQsxzgz5CQI/d9XECicd5T5l6w71; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006462991830904@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Beyond Petroleum Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 03:18:30 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940803be66f8906ab49796c5c1cc1ecce69350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.79 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67833 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Okay, here's the setup. A methane/natural gas powered 2 cycle piston on one side, driving pre-compressed air on the other side gets safe Pulse Tube Liquefaction of air below it's -320 F boiling point which is used to cool natural gas off the line to the gas dryer in the laundry room to less than it's - 256 F boiling point. Modified chain saw or Model airplane cylinder? Atlanta noise ordinance compliant at ~ 90 dB, ~ 1400 Hz? :-) Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/29/2006 2:42:55 AM Subject: Re: Beyond Petroleum Pulse Tube Cryogenic Coolers. http://irtek.arc.nasa.gov/CryoPTHist.html ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Okay, here's the setup.
A methane/natural gas powered 2 cycle piston on one side, driving
pre-compressed air on the other side gets safe Pulse Tube Liquefaction of
air below it's  -320 F boiling point  which is used  to cool natural gas off  the line to
the gas dryer in the laundry room to less than it's - 256 F boiling point.
 
Modified chain saw or Model airplane cylinder?
 
Atlanta noise ordinance compliant at ~ 90 dB, ~ 1400 Hz?   :-)
 
Fred
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/29/2006 2:42:55 AM
Subject: Re: Beyond Petroleum

Pulse Tube Cryogenic Coolers.
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 29 03:03:33 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3TA3MD0020517; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 03:03:22 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3TA3ISm020479; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 03:03:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 03:03:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=OJO+KGIkwsslDD4BuBYXa3vj1y+bd0mrkv4EM5uspjRkUPNTtytWCPufhSfjDKEJ; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006462910310306@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Beyond Petroleum Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 04:03:10 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940d1e2f300f7284f4735931d1254cca25a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.248 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67834 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Addendum: If there's a worry about O2 hazard, a Pressure Swing Absorption Air (N2 Ar,O2) separator can be gotten by modifying an old (up to 90% purity O2 at 10 liters/minute) Medical Oxygen generator to run off a methane/natural gas powered engine. A 20 lb capacity propane bottle stored inside the "home brew LN2 dewar can hold about 18 liters (17 pounds) of LNG.. At ~ 21,000 BTU/lb LHV, 17 pounds of LNG is about the equivalent of 2.75 - 3.0 gallons of gasoline. Feed the O2 gas into the 2 cycle engine? SAFETY DISCLAIMER: Naturally. :-) Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/29/2006 3:19:18 AM Subject: Re: Beyond Petroleum http://irtek.arc.nasa.gov/CryoPTHist.html Okay, here's the setup. A methane/natural gas powered 2 cycle piston on one side, driving pre-compressed air on the other side gets safe Pulse Tube Liquefaction of air below it's -320 F boiling point which is used to cool natural gas off the line to the gas dryer in the laundry room to less than it's - 256 F boiling point. Modified chain saw or Model airplane cylinder? Atlanta noise ordinance compliant at ~ 90 dB, ~ 1400 Hz? :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Addendum:
 
If there's a worry about O2 hazard, a Pressure Swing Absorption
Air (N2 Ar,O2) separator can be gotten by modifying an old
(up to 90% purity O2 at 10 liters/minute) Medical Oxygen generator
to run off a methane/natural gas powered engine.
A 20 lb capacity propane bottle stored inside the "home brew LN2 dewar can
hold about 18 liters (17 pounds) of LNG..
At ~ 21,000 BTU/lb LHV, 17 pounds of LNG is about the equivalent of
2.75 - 3.0 gallons of gasoline.
 
Feed the O2 gas into the 2 cycle engine?
 
SAFETY DISCLAIMER: Naturally.  :-)
 
Fred
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/29/2006 3:19:18 AM
Subject: Re: Beyond Petroleum
Okay, here's the setup.
A methane/natural gas powered 2 cycle piston on one side, driving
pre-compressed air on the other side gets safe Pulse Tube Liquefaction of
air below it's  -320 F boiling point  which is used  to cool natural gas off  the line to
the gas dryer in the laundry room to less than it's - 256 F boiling point.
 
Modified chain saw or Model airplane cylinder?
 
Atlanta noise ordinance compliant at ~ 90 dB, ~ 1400 Hz?   :-)
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 29 07:16:50 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3TEGTKV030773; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 07:16:30 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3TEGRtC030748; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 07:16:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 07:16:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <001a01c66b97$7dd802a0$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Subject: Fw: Transmission of EVOs Through Metal Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 07:16:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67835 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A paper by Ken Shoulders on "Transmission of EVOs Through Metal" is available for download from: www.svn.net/krscfs/ Transmission of EVOs Through Metal by Ken Shoulders © 2006 Abstract High-density and highly organized clusters of electronic charge, or EVOs, are shown to transit through metal with relative ease compared to that of single electrons. Upon reaching an interface between metal and vacuum, the charges exit the metal somewhat disheveled as clusters and propagate through vacuum as both free electrons and clusters. An EVO injection velocity of a few hundred volts easily penetrates 1 millimeter of aluminum. Although contrary to established electron penetration theory, lower injection velocities produce greater EVO mobility and lifetime within the metal target. The configuration used provides a cold, intense electron emission source without concern for either work function or geometry of the cathode. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 29 07:33:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3TEWsMm005698; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 07:32:55 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3TEWrpC005676; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 07:32:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 07:32:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 10:32:53 -0400 Message-Id: <8C839B0EF074272-291C-B6A1@mblkn-m04.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d@netscape.net References: <410-22006462991830904@earthlink.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <410-22006462991830904@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 15106 Subject: Re: Beyond Petroleum Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.68 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3TEWo5S005643 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67836 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Frederick Sparber Atlanta noise ordinance compliant at ~ 90 dB, ~ 1400 Hz?   :-) <><><><><><> LOL! If we could only get the car stereo systems to comply with that! Terry ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 29 08:46:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3TFkObG004292; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 08:46:25 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3TFkMRT004270; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 08:46:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 08:46:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=jtpLe7ymKveN7fe7j4cRIjy9k0RenOi9r8PIe/xhmvFiQuROvc6OO+FZ9T5O2BNA; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006462915467922@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Ubiquitous Strange Particle Electronium Stable Ps- Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 09:46:07 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9401b9e17d78563ab8fabdb38d9ac1abb7d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.92 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67837 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII A Mills Dynasty? http://www.mpi-hd.mpg.de/ato/psminus/ [Atomic Physics] [Max Planck Institute for Nuclear Physics] Introduction " The study of simple systems has been of particular interest since the very first days of physics. Simple systems, consisting of just a few particles do not show the puzzling variety of phenomena known from solid state physics, for example. But they offer invaluable insights into the the properties of particles and fundamental forces. To gain a first understanding of atomic physics it is a much more promising approach to study hydrogen instead of complex molecules, for instance. The object of our studies is one of these simple systems: the Positronium negative ion. This exotic entity is a bound state of a positron and two electrons. It is similar to the negative ion of hydrogen (H-). In fact, it is the most simple three body problem imaginable." Professor Allen Mills is at the University of California Riverside (UCR) "Allen Paine Mills, Jr.; Observation of the Positronium Negative Ion; Phys. Rev. Letters 46, 717; 1981" "Allen Paine Mills, Jr.; Measurement of the Decay Rate of the Positronium Negative Ion; Phys. Rev. Letters 50, 671; 1983" Here is where a Stable Mass ~ 2.5+ Electron (ELECTRONIUM) can form and get in Groundwater/Rainwater in the Earth or from the Potassium-Argon in the Oceans. It would explain Randy Mills' "Fractional Orbit Hydrino" High Energy Release. The Stable Argon-40 (~1% in the air) can also contain the Electronium Particle. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium-argon_dating "Potassium-argon or K-Ar dating is a geochronological method used in many geoscience disciplines. It is based on measuring the products of the radioactive decay of potassium (K), which is a common element found in materials such as micas, clay minerals, tephra and evaporites. Potassium (K) exisits in 3 isotopes - 39K (92.23%), 40K (0.00118%), 41K (6.73%)." "The radioactive isotope 40K decays to 40Ar and 40Ca with a half-life of 1.26x109 years. 40Ca is the most common form of Ca, however, so the increase in abundance due to K decay results in a negligible increase in total abundance making it less useful as a geochronometer. The 40Ar isotope is much less abundant however, and is therefore a more useful isotope." "As argon is a gas, it is able to escape from molten rock. However, when the rock solidifies, the decayed 40Ar will begin to accumulate in the crystal lattices. In order to determine the 40Ar content of a rock, it must be melted and the isotopic composition of the released gas measured via mass spectrometry. It is also necessary to separately measure the amount of 40K in the sample. This can be measured using flame photometry or atomic absorption spectroscopy. The ratio between the 40Ar and the 40K is related to the time elapsed since the rock was cool enough to trap the Ar. This is the key principle behind K-Ar dating" ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
A Mills Dynasty?
 
 
[Atomic Physics] [Max Planck Institute for Nuclear Physics]
Introduction
" The study of simple systems has been of particular interest since the very first days of physics. Simple systems, consisting of just a few particles do not show the puzzling variety of phenomena known from solid state physics, for example. But they offer invaluable insights into the the properties of particles and fundamental forces. To gain a first understanding of atomic physics it is a much more promising approach to study hydrogen instead of complex molecules, for instance.
The object of our studies is one of these simple systems: the Positronium negative ion. This exotic entity is a bound state of a positron and two electrons. It is similar to the negative ion of hydrogen (H-). In fact, it is the most simple three body problem imaginable."
Professor Allen Mills is at the University of California Riverside (UCR)
 
"Allen Paine Mills, Jr.; Observation of the Positronium Negative Ion; Phys. Rev. Letters 46, 717; 1981"
"Allen Paine Mills, Jr.; Measurement of the Decay Rate of the Positronium Negative Ion; Phys. Rev. Letters 50, 671; 1983"
 
Here is where a Stable Mass ~ 2.5+ Electron (ELECTRONIUM) can form and get in Groundwater/Rainwater in
the Earth or from the Potassium-Argon in the Oceans.
 
It would explain Randy Mills' "Fractional Orbit Hydrino" High Energy Release.
 
The Stable Argon-40 (~1% in the air) can also contain the Electronium Particle.
 
 
"Potassium-argon or K-Ar dating is a geochronological method used in many geoscience disciplines. It is based on measuring the products of the radioactive decay of potassium (K), which is a common element found in materials such as micas, clay minerals, tephra and evaporites.
Potassium (K) exisits in 3 isotopes - 39K (92.23%), 40K (0.00118%), 41K (6.73%)."
 
"The radioactive isotope 40K decays to 40Ar and 40Ca with a half-life of 1.26x109 years. 40Ca is the most common form of Ca, however, so the increase in abundance due to K decay results in a negligible increase in total abundance making it less useful as a geochronometer. The 40Ar isotope is much less abundant however, and is therefore a more useful isotope."
 
"As argon is a gas, it is able to escape from molten rock. However, when the rock solidifies, the decayed 40Ar will begin to accumulate in the crystal lattices. In order to determine the 40Ar content of a rock, it must be melted and the isotopic composition of the released gas measured via mass spectrometry. It is also necessary to separately measure the amount of 40K in the sample. This can be measured using flame photometry or atomic absorption spectroscopy. The ratio between the 40Ar and the 40K is related to the time elapsed since the rock was cool enough to trap the Ar. This is the key principle behind K-Ar dating"
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 29 09:40:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3TGeDnY027308; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 09:40:13 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3TGeArF027274; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 09:40:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 09:40:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=lVJdhQa8+MJIf8Qxa1vudCmedM6CtiMJZBo+zsswfaD+SDFT2nD23YMH40hwgqPI; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064629163946903@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Ubiquitous Strange Particle Electronium Stable Ps- Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 10:39:46 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940396518bcba368e4a84cc827978998f54350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.165.54 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67838 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Posted earlier. > > Here is where a Stable Mass ~ 2.5+ Electron (ELECTRONIUM) can form and get in Groundwater/Rainwater in > the Earth or from the Potassium-Argon in the Oceans. > > It would explain Randy Mills' "Fractional Orbit Hydrino" High Energy Release. > > The Stable Argon-40 (~1% in the air) can also contain the Stable Ps- "Electronium" Particle. > Earthtech's experiments on Mills' "Hydrino-related" results. http://www.earthtech.org/experiments/index.html Nickel Cathode with K2CO3 Electrolysis: http://www.earthtech.org/experiments/mills/mills1.html "Introduction: Dr. Randall Mills reports multiple observations of excess heat in the Ni-H2O-K2CO3 system on the Blacklight Power web page at http://www.blacklightpower.com. In the section entitled Detail on Technology and Representative Technical Support several examples are mentioned: - 24.6 watts out for 4.73 watts in during pulsed current electrolysis. Source unclear, perhaps Mills & Good - pulsed and continuous current electrolysis with Pout/Pin > 37. Mills and Kneizys - pulsed and continuous current electrolysis with 41 watts out and Pout/Pin > 8. Thermacore, Inc. - pulsed and continuous current electrolysis with Pout/Pin > 16. HydroCatalysis Power Corporation" Etc. Potassium Nitrate, KNO3-H2 Gas Phase: http://www.earthtech.org/experiments/blp/prelim.html ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Posted earlier.
>
> Here is where a Stable Mass ~ 2.5+ Electron (ELECTRONIUM) can form and get in Groundwater/Rainwater in
> the Earth or from the Potassium-Argon in the Oceans.
>
> It would explain Randy Mills' "Fractional Orbit Hydrino" High Energy Release.
>
> The Stable Argon-40 (~1% in the air) can also contain the Stable Ps- "Electronium" Particle.
>
Earthtech's experiments on Mills'  "Hydrino-related" results.
 
 
 
Nickel Cathode with K2CO3 Electrolysis:
 
 
"Introduction:

Dr. Randall Mills reports multiple observations of excess heat in the Ni-H2O-K2CO3 system on the Blacklight Power web page at http://www.blacklightpower.com. In the section entitled Detail on Technology and Representative Technical Support several examples are mentioned:

- 24.6 watts out for 4.73 watts in during pulsed current electrolysis. Source unclear, perhaps Mills & Good

- pulsed and continuous current electrolysis with Pout/Pin > 37. Mills and Kneizys

- pulsed and continuous current electrolysis with 41 watts out and Pout/Pin > 8. Thermacore, Inc.

- pulsed and continuous current electrolysis with Pout/Pin > 16. HydroCatalysis Power Corporation"

Etc.

Potassium Nitrate, KNO3-H2 Gas Phase:
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 29 10:03:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3TH3OY5006844; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 10:03:24 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3TH3L53006824; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 10:03:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 10:03:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=YxcH1kcAeki1HXa5lpWvOpS0V2tikYHNI4TrVgNGiuVyScb1g6sjY82cZdLIQHfa; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064629173590@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Ubiquitous Strange Particle Electronium Stable Ps- Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 11:03:05 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940cfd03cff82abd3e1b5ca5742a4d9d84a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.97 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67839 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Maybe these folks aren't Blowing Blue Smoke after all. http://pesn.com/2006/04/13/9600257_Bill_Williams_threatened/ 3 page pdf. Cell Design. http://pesn.com/2006/04/13/9600257_Bill_Williams_threatened/Joe_Cell_rev5_Apr14_2006.pdf ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 4/29/2006 10:41:28 AM Subject: Re: Ubiquitous Strange Particle Electronium Stable Ps- Posted earlier. > > Here is where a Stable Mass ~ 2.5+ Electron (ELECTRONIUM) can form and get in Groundwater/Rainwater in > the Earth or from the Potassium-Argon in the Oceans. > > It would explain Randy Mills' "Fractional Orbit Hydrino" High Energy Release. > > The Stable Argon-40 (~1% in the air) can also contain the Stable Ps- "Electronium" Particle. > Earthtech's experiments on Mills' "Hydrino-related" results. http://www.earthtech.org/experiments/index.html Nickel Cathode with K2CO3 Electrolysis: http://www.earthtech.org/experiments/mills/mills1.html "Introduction: Dr. Randall Mills reports multiple observations of excess heat in the Ni-H2O-K2CO3 system on the Blacklight Power web page at http://www.blacklightpower.com. In the section entitled Detail on Technology and Representative Technical Support several examples are mentioned: - 24.6 watts out for 4.73 watts in during pulsed current electrolysis. Source unclear, perhaps Mills & Good - pulsed and continuous current electrolysis with Pout/Pin > 37. Mills and Kneizys - pulsed and continuous current electrolysis with 41 watts out and Pout/Pin > 8. Thermacore, Inc. - pulsed and continuous current electrolysis with Pout/Pin > 16. HydroCatalysis Power Corporation" Etc. Potassium Nitrate, KNO3-H2 Gas Phase: http://www.earthtech.org/experiments/blp/prelim.html ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/29/2006 10:41:28 AM
Subject: Re: Ubiquitous Strange Particle Electronium Stable Ps-

Posted earlier.
>
> Here is where a Stable Mass ~ 2.5+ Electron (ELECTRONIUM) can form and get in Groundwater/Rainwater in
> the Earth or from the Potassium-Argon in the Oceans.
>
> It would explain Randy Mills' "Fractional Orbit Hydrino" High Energy Release.
>
> The Stable Argon-40 (~1% in the air) can also contain the Stable Ps- "Electronium" Particle.
>
Earthtech's experiments on Mills'  "Hydrino-related" results.
 
 
 
Nickel Cathode with K2CO3 Electrolysis:
 
 
"Introduction:

Dr. Randall Mills reports multiple observations of excess heat in the Ni-H2O-K2CO3 system on the Blacklight Power web page at http://www.blacklightpower.com. In the section entitled Detail on Technology and Representative Technical Support several examples are mentioned:

- 24.6 watts out for 4.73 watts in during pulsed current electrolysis. Source unclear, perhaps Mills & Good

- pulsed and continuous current electrolysis with Pout/Pin > 37. Mills and Kneizys

- pulsed and continuous current electrolysis with 41 watts out and Pout/Pin > 8. Thermacore, Inc.

- pulsed and continuous current electrolysis with Pout/Pin > 16. HydroCatalysis Power Corporation"

Etc.

Potassium Nitrate, KNO3-H2 Gas Phase:
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 29 11:11:41 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3TIBQYi005730; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 11:11:26 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3TIBO7F005709; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 11:11:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 11:11:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060429111327.02a921e8@mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 11:13:44 -0700 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: death threats Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67840 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rumor has come to me that at some point in the early history of CF, F&P had received death threats in the course of the subsequent harassment that was directed toward them. I would be most grateful if anyone can direct me to any such reports or facts. Steve From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Apr 24 17:57:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3P0vZJM028198; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 17:57:35 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3P0vYdj028185; Mon, 24 Apr 2006 17:57:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 17:57:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Sender:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=6U2nU8mTyJa0DAV59DlG1/50RybPSt/xYU7KsdAFv9L5pRsBUHUdX/7Dcwco3lgugx8NCwdzxfdW7cZJbTG/BIl68kE++KkHxpgolFtyO7gL10wNqUJyL6noMcbU4Z0jCQH3jS1U8U81OkOk2NlHaDurbegCNU2zmnnoeIX6l6E= ; Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.1.20060424204756.01d80ff8@pop> X-Sender: philip.winestone@pop X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.1.1 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 20:48:14 -0400 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Philip Winestone Subject: Re: Reich's Orgone Accumulator Plans In-Reply-To: <8C83612B627DEA0-2B10-75D@mblkn-m06.sysops.aol.com> References: <000a01c667d8$da3a79a0$63037841@xptower> <6.1.1.1.1.20060424162321.01d9c080@pop> <8C83612B627DEA0-2B10-75D@mblkn-m06.sysops.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67769 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends5 Status: RO X-Status: LOL - On my own admission... P. At 08:02 PM 4/24/2006 -0400, you wrote: >-----Original Message----- >From: Philip Winestone > >In Glasgow, we didn't have toilets; kept it all in. For years...decades. > ><><><><><><> > >Always knew you blokes were full of it. :-) > >http://geocities.com/terry1094/Blanton_Privy1.jpg > >My grandfather built it from lumber from his own saw mill. Dug the hole, >he did. > >I did my best to fill it. > >Terry > >PS In the foreground, you'll find clothes pins . . . for a clothes line . >. . the ancient solar technology. > > >___________________________________________________ >Try the New Netscape Mail Today! >Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List >http://mail.netscape.com From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 29 16:48:16 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3TNm7Zg003669; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 16:48:07 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3TNm3DR003617; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 16:48:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 16:48:03 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Hydrino orgone Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 09:48:00 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <9ou7525g2avsm7fqksh3eg1gj9c03t3h43@4ax.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta04ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.55.70] using ID rvanspaa@bigpond.net.au at Sat, 29 Apr 2006 23:47:59 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3TNm0nP003514 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67841 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, I just came across this:- http://www.nutech2000.com/webtext/forum/hydrinopower.html Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 29 20:47:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3U3l7dK009507; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 20:47:07 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3U3l1b7009429; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 20:47:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 20:47:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 23:46:57 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: OT: Google's free version of SketchUp In-reply-to: To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k3U3kxDL009386 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67842 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://sketchup.google.com/ http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2006/04/great-day-for-3d.html A great day for 3D 4/27/2006 06:07:00 AM Posted by Brad Schell, Product Management Director, Google SketchUp Last month we told you that @Last Software had joined the Google fold. Today we¹re releasing Google SketchUp, a free version of our 3D modeling software, which makes our long-time vision of making 3D accessible to everyone a reality. We¹re still offering SketchUp Pro 5 for design professionals like architects, designers, builders, art directors and game developers. Both Google SketchUp and SketchUp Pro 5 enable you to place models in Google Earth; Pro users get some additional features. The new Google SketchUp is for the do-it-yourselfer, the hobbyist ‹ really anyone who wants to build 3D models for use in Google Earth. Go ahead and model that new kitchen, or deck, landscape your virtual garden, or impress your teacher with a roller coaster or medieval castle. When you¹re finished, place your model in Google Earth. There! The beginning of a virtual world. Warning: don¹t start messing with this stuff after dinner because your first experience could be an all-nighterŠ making an idea come to life in 3D can be very addicting. And what could be better than that? Well, sharing your work with everyone else through the 3D Warehouse. Accessible through both versions of SketchUp, 3D Warehouse enables you to upload, search, browse, view, and download SketchUp models. Just as you do with Google search, enter some keywords and the 3D Warehouse shows you all your options. Grab the one you want and import it into your model. (Note that the Warehouse is not stocked up yet ‹ so model something yourself and upload it for all the world to see.) Visionaries, utopians, virtual world builders: your time has come. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Apr 29 22:20:56 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3U5K6rm023665; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 22:20:38 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3U59uVd018240; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 22:09:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 22:09:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060430050948417.65FEA1C002E2@mwinf3003.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060430050949.00b57cac@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 06:09:49 +0100 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Hydrino orgone Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67843 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:48 am 30/04/2006 +1000, you wrote: >Hi, > >I just came across this:- > >http://www.nutech2000.com/webtext/forum/hydrinopower.html Sounds plausible. For example, it would be difficult for someone to invent the following since it is unlikely they would understand the concept of negative energy. ============================================================ One of the difficulties of the JOE cell appeared to be that the motor ran so cold that the water in circulation in the car motor froze. It was proposed that the water in the cars cooling system be replaced with hydraulic fluid which doesn't freeze as readily. ============================================================ That statement sounds as though it comes from a "garage" experimentalist who is not inhibited by conventional theory and does not realise the what he is doing is supposed to be impossible. The idea of using cold as an energy source reminds one of a Stirling engine running on ice. Mmmm....interesting. Frank Grimer From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 30 03:21:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3UAKsjY029544; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 03:20:55 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3UAKqv2029528; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 03:20:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 03:20:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=ZLc30x31oZddNVv4k2SA1beCgviIxksM8orAJpoI4r1brVmUKJF98Os2djFJjsWV; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064030102040564@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydrino orgone Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 04:20:40 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940d6549c1e67612cf3b1897b16a104aa2a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.242 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67844 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Frank Grimer wrote: > > Sounds plausible. For example, it would be difficult for > someone to invent the following since it is unlikely they > would understand the concept of negative energy. > > That statement sounds as though it comes from a "garage" > experimentalist who is not inhibited by conventional > theory and does not realise the what he is doing is > supposed to be impossible. > > The idea of using cold as an energy source reminds one of a > Stirling engine running on ice. > Take it a step further, Frank. The predominant factor as seen in most OU effects is the transient exposure of atoms-molecules to low pressure "soft vacuum". Vortices, Orgone, MAHG, Cavitation Bubbles, Exploding Lightbulbs, and so on. Almost as though "soft vacuum" exposure allows the Casimir Force to collapse the electron clouds closer into the nuclei. WIMPS? Or conversely, the electron clouds expand outwardly from the nuclei by ZPE pumping and they collapse into the normal "ambient/ground state" when exposed to a triggering energy. All of our pet agenda explanations go out the door, along with our concept of Enthalpy-Entropy /"Thermodynamics". :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Frank Grimer wrote:
>
> Sounds plausible. For example, it would be difficult for
> someone to invent the following since it is unlikely they
> would understand the concept of negative energy.
>
> That statement sounds as though it comes from a "garage"
> experimentalist who is not inhibited by conventional
> theory and does not realise the what he is doing is
> supposed to be impossible.
>
> The idea of using cold as an energy source reminds one of a
> Stirling engine running on ice.
>
Take it a step further, Frank.
 
The predominant factor as seen in most OU effects is the
transient exposure of atoms-molecules to low pressure "soft vacuum".
Vortices, Orgone, MAHG, Cavitation Bubbles, Exploding Lightbulbs,
and so on.
 
Almost as though "soft vacuum" exposure allows the Casimir Force
to collapse the electron clouds  closer into the nuclei. WIMPS?
 
Or conversely, the electron clouds expand outwardly from the
nuclei by ZPE pumping and they collapse into the normal "ambient/ground state"
when exposed to a triggering energy.
 
All of our pet agenda explanations go out the door, along with our concept
of Enthalpy-Entropy /"Thermodynamics".  :-)
 
Fred
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 30 04:19:02 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3UBIlfg022219; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 04:18:47 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3UBIjkF022200; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 04:18:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 04:18:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=uGM802kSqcZYfX9J7IZqhs8ySHfOCEM9av9XdJgIa6GPVGyHL9e/amf4i0agfgIo; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064030111833737@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Hydrino orgone Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 05:18:33 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940c5a9f2ba8f415af0d56502ec3bac442d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.56 Resent-Message-ID: <4E_bcC.A.0aF.V0JVEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67845 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII BTW, Mr. Grimer. How do you do flawless calorimetry on systems that extract heat from your calorimeter? Use an Infernal Combustion Engine, and see how much work it can do,perhaps? BTW II, wasn't the F & P Cell calorimetry setup condensing the "recombiner steam " causing a "soft vacuum" inside? Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: 4/30/2006 4:21:37 AM Subject: Re: Hydrino orgone Frank Grimer wrote: > > Sounds plausible. For example, it would be difficult for > someone to invent the following since it is unlikely they > would understand the concept of negative energy. > > That statement sounds as though it comes from a "garage" > experimentalist who is not inhibited by conventional > theory and does not realise the what he is doing is > supposed to be impossible. > > The idea of using cold as an energy source reminds one of a > Stirling engine running on ice. > Take it a step further, Frank. The predominant factor as seen in most OU effects is the transient exposure of atoms-molecules to low pressure "soft vacuum". Vortices, Orgone, MAHG, Cavitation Bubbles, Exploding Lightbulbs, and so on. Almost as though "soft vacuum" exposure allows the Casimir Force to collapse the electron clouds closer into the nuclei. WIMPS? Or conversely, the electron clouds expand outwardly from the nuclei by ZPE pumping and they collapse into the normal "ambient/ground state" when exposed to a triggering energy. All of our pet agenda explanations go out the door, along with our concept of Enthalpy-Entropy /"Thermodynamics". :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
BTW, Mr. Grimer.
How do you do flawless calorimetry on systems that extract
heat from your calorimeter?
 
Use an Infernal Combustion Engine, and see how much
work it can do,perhaps?
 
BTW II, wasn't the F & P Cell calorimetry setup condensing
the "recombiner steam " causing a "soft vacuum" inside?
 
Fred
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 4/30/2006 4:21:37 AM
Subject: Re: Hydrino orgone

Frank Grimer wrote:
>
> Sounds plausible. For example, it would be difficult for
> someone to invent the following since it is unlikely they
> would understand the concept of negative energy.
>
> That statement sounds as though it comes from a "garage"
> experimentalist who is not inhibited by conventional
> theory and does not realise the what he is doing is
> supposed to be impossible.
>
> The idea of using cold as an energy source reminds one of a
> Stirling engine running on ice.
>
Take it a step further, Frank.
 
The predominant factor as seen in most OU effects is the
transient exposure of atoms-molecules to low pressure "soft vacuum".
Vortices, Orgone, MAHG, Cavitation Bubbles, Exploding Lightbulbs,
and so on.
 
Almost as though "soft vacuum" exposure allows the Casimir Force
to collapse the electron clouds  closer into the nuclei. WIMPS?
 
Or conversely, the electron clouds expand outwardly from the
nuclei by ZPE pumping and they collapse into the normal "ambient/ground state"
when exposed to a triggering energy.
 
All of our pet agenda explanations go out the door, along with our concept
of Enthalpy-Entropy /"Thermodynamics".  :-)
 
Fred
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 30 04:43:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3UBhBVL006100; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 04:43:12 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3UBh9ZU006064; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 04:43:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 04:43:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060430114303795.C21DC1C00082@mwinf3011.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060430114305.00b8bdb0@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:43:05 +0100 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Hydrino orgone Resent-Message-ID: <6ujrG.A.reB.NLKVEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67846 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 04:20 am 30/04/2006 -0600, Fred wrote: >Frank Grimer wrote: >> >> Sounds plausible. For example, it would be difficult for >> someone to invent the following since it is unlikely they >> would understand the concept of negative energy. >> >> That statement sounds as though it comes from a "garage" >> experimentalist who is not inhibited by conventional >> theory and does not realise the what he is doing is >> supposed to be impossible. >> >> The idea of using cold as an energy source reminds one of a >> Stirling engine running on ice. >> > Take it a step further, Frank. > > The predominant factor as seen in most OU effects is the > transient exposure of atoms-molecules to low pressure "soft vacuum". > Vortices, Orgone, MAHG, Cavitation Bubbles, Exploding Lightbulbs, > and so on. > > Almost as though "soft vacuum" exposure allows the Casimir Force > to collapse the electron clouds closer into the nuclei. WIMPS? Absolutely. 8-) In my language is a case of Beta-atmosphere condensation when the Beta-atmosphere pressure drops - a process very analogous to Alpha atmosphere condensation when the A-atm pressure drops. It seems more than likely that Bo-Ein. explanation for CF is just an unnecessarily complicated way of saying the same thing. One can imagine people explaining water condensation in an equally redundant fashion. > Or conversely, the electron clouds expand outwardly from the > nuclei by ZPE pumping and they collapse into the normal > "ambient/ground state" > when exposed to a triggering energy. > > All of our pet agenda explanations go out the door, along with our concept > of Enthalpy-Entropy /"Thermodynamics". :-) Well, I suppose it's a bit like Ohm's Law going out the window when alternating current became popular. Ohms Law wasn't wrong. It was just restricted to a particular boundary case of alternating current with zero frequency. Frank From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 30 04:54:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3UBsTqr011432; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 04:54:30 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3UBsQlY011405; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 04:54:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 04:54:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2006-03-10) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.6 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Message-ID: <001701c66c4c$cd2339f0$a1037841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: Re: Hydrino orgone Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 06:54:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01C66C22.E3C9D120" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67847 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C66C22.E3C9D120 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0014_01C66C22.E3C9D120" ------=_NextPart_001_0014_01C66C22.E3C9D120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankFred wrote.. >The predominant factor as seen in most OU effects is the transient exposure of atoms-molecules to low pressure "soft vacuum". Vortices, Orgone, MAHG, Cavitation Bubbles, Exploding Lightbulbs, and so on. Or conversely, the electron clouds expand outwardly from the nuclei by ZPE pumping and they collapse into the normal "ambient/ground = state" when exposed to a triggering energy. All of our pet agenda explanations go out the door, along with our = concept of Enthalpy-Entropy /"Thermodynamics". :-) Howdy Fred and Grimer, Any high school physics student can tell something is missing from the = concept of thermodynamics. The trouble with saddling a strange horse in the dark is the risk of = choosing a 3 legged one. Once in the saddle you are not only in for a = rough ride, it's embarrassing when daylight comes. However, when one is stuck for transportation trying to get where one's = going, one must be creative in their posture. Either laugh = it off or deride those on polkadot horses. Thus the plight of certain areas of mainstream science. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0014_01C66C22.E3C9D120 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Fred wrote..
 
>The predominant factor as = seen in=20 most OU effects is the
transient exposure of = atoms-molecules to=20 low pressure "soft vacuum".
Vortices, Orgone, MAHG, = Cavitation=20 Bubbles, Exploding Lightbulbs,
and so on.
Or conversely, the electron = clouds expand=20 outwardly from the
nuclei by ZPE pumping and = they collapse=20 into the normal "ambient/ground state"
when exposed to a triggering=20 energy.
 
All of our pet agenda = explanations go out=20 the door, along with our concept
of=20 Enthalpy-Entropy /"Thermodynamics".  :-)
 
 
Howdy Fred and Grimer,
Any high school physics student can = tell=20 something is missing from the concept of = thermodynamics.
The trouble with saddling a strange = horse in the=20 dark is the risk of choosing a  3 legged one.  Once in the = saddle you=20 are not only in for a rough ride, it's embarrassing when daylight=20 comes.
However, when one is stuck for = transportation=20 trying to get where one's going, one must be creative in their=20 posture.           = ; =20 Either laugh it off or deride those on polkadot = horses.
Thus the plight of certain areas of = mainstream=20 science.
 
Richard
 
------=_NextPart_001_0014_01C66C22.E3C9D120-- ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C66C22.E3C9D120 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <001201c66c4c$cc983800$a1037841@xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C66C22.E3C9D120-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 30 06:00:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3UCxsMN013770; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 05:59:55 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3UCxrYf013753; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 05:59:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 05:59:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=WeLNrDlEZClfeqJacL8c1Ht/la7Vi2zjt9JLa4nIaaJH0RCLyMJGNzfivNdDqxpv; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <411-2200640301259457@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydrino orgone Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 06:59:45 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940be03de3b3d4ba5ebaa79e713b4be2534350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.219 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67848 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Richard wrote. > > Howdy Fred and Grimer, > > Any high school physics student can tell something is missing from the concept of thermodynamics. > The Negative/"plate-push" Casimir Force and the Negative Heat (ZPE) Vacuum, perhaps? > > The trouble with saddling a strange horse in the dark is the risk of choosing a 3 legged one. > Once in the saddle you are not only in for a rough ride, it's embarrassing when daylight comes > Or you could lend your steed a hand. :-) > > .However, when one is stuck for transportation trying to get where one's going, > one must be creative in their posture. > I think they call it crawling when you do that. > > Either laugh it off or deride those on polkadot horses. > Or Gold Caddies. > > Thus the plight of certain areas of mainstream science. > As strange as the Joe Cell - Hydrino Orgone "presentations" are, ignorance may very well be bliss, as Frank Grimer suggests. Hydrino is a catchy name for a "Weakly Interacting Massive Particle" WIMP, created by transitory exposure to the low pressure "soft vacuum" that both of these have in common. That is to say, low pressure electrolysis cells that provide the heat of vaporization of the water and also use the evaporated water vapor H2O as a carrier for the generated OH and H or H3O free radicals which may concurrently be "expanding or contracting due to Casimir-Vacuum ZPE effects with the low "Cell" pressures (~ 60 liters/gram vapor densities) created by the engine suction/manifold pressure. Fred > Richard > ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Blank
Richard wrote.
>
> Howdy Fred and Grimer,
>
> Any high school physics student can tell something is missing from the concept of thermodynamics.
>
The Negative/"plate-push" Casimir Force and the Negative Heat (ZPE) Vacuum, perhaps?
> 
> The trouble with saddling a strange horse in the dark is the risk of choosing a  3 legged one. 
> Once in the saddle you are not only in for a rough ride, it's embarrassing when daylight comes
>
Or you could lend your steed a hand.  :-)
>
> .However, when one is stuck for transportation trying to get where one's going,
> one must be creative in their posture.   
>
I think they call it crawling when you do that.
>         
>  Either laugh it off or deride those on polkadot horses.
>
Or Gold Caddies.
>
> Thus the plight of certain areas of mainstream science.
>
As strange as the Joe Cell - Hydrino Orgone "presentations" are,
ignorance may very well be bliss, as Frank Grimer suggests. 
 
Hydrino is a catchy name for a "Weakly Interacting Massive Particle" WIMP,
created by transitory exposure to the low pressure "soft vacuum" that both
of these have in common.
That is to say, low pressure electrolysis cells that provide the heat of vaporization of the water
and also use the evaporated water vapor H2O as a carrier for the generated OH and H or H3O
free radicals which may concurrently be "expanding or contracting due to Casimir-Vacuum ZPE effects
with the low "Cell" pressures (~ 60 liters/gram vapor densities) created by the
engine suction/manifold pressure.
 
Fred
>
Richard
>
 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 30 07:24:17 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3UEO6mG028048; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 07:24:06 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3UEO5Hw028038; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 07:24:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 07:24:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <001a01c66c60$cb085920$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <2.2.32.20060430114305.00b8bdb0@pop.freeserve.net> Subject: Macho WIMP ? Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 07:17:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67849 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: No idea-wimps here... that's for sure. But - doesn't the reported (nearly-negative) energy profile of reputed orgone fit the MACHO just as well? In astrophysics, WIMPs (weakly interacting massive particles) are hypothetical particles serving as a possible solution to the dark matter problem. If the astrophysicists have this kind of leeway to invent new particles, then the more well-ground on Vo can play that game to. These particles interact through the weak nuclear force and gravity, and possibly through other interactions no stronger than the weak force. Because they do not interact with electromagnetism they cannot be seen directly, and because they do not interact with the strong nuclear force they do not react strongly with atomic nuclei. There seem to be two refinements that can be added to that - if we do get some glimpse of them on earth, based on the anecdotal details available. Actually nothing can fit the anecdotal details precisely, because they are in conflict with each other. The same problems were seen in the early days of LENR. The two refinements are - WIMPs are a relic of compression/decompression where some electrical charge is present. WIMPs may be transitory and on "decay" leave an implosion effect. As to the large estimated mass, compared to standard particles - the WIMP may not even be a single particle but a collective remnant of many real particles. Consider it as a "shadow" or as a "relic of displacement" ... kind of like a short-physical-memory (I can identify with that more-and-more, every advancing year) Because of lack of interaction with normal matter, they would be dark and invisible through normal electromagnetic observations. Because of their large "former" mass, transience, and rapid decay, they would be relatively slow moving and therefore cold. Other similar candidates for "cold dark (matter)" which essentially what orgone is - in the MACHO (MAssive Compact Halo Object). This name was deliberately chosen for contrast, certainly by jealous astrophysicists suffering from long-telescope envy ;-) Vo's... however... being real men, and this orgone being an unreal starting point for anything serious, well ... we might as well go macho... Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 30 07:57:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3UEumKJ016735; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 07:56:48 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3UEukF0016714; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 07:56:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 07:56:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <003b01c66c66$49e5d1a0$6401a8c0@NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Subject: Do FRET Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 07:56:39 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: <8mM4OD.A.GFE.uANVEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67851 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If you Wimpy, or even Macho, then FRETing is a good thing. FRET is an acronym for "Fluorescence Resonance Energy Transfer" and usually relates to techniques used in imaging and microscopy of proteins and viruses, but there are definite implications of FRET to the field of ZPE coherence. Fluorescence is related to the UV spectrum and the UV spectrum often turns up in many reports of energy anomalies - certainly it is the key to the hydrino technology. If there is a candidate for the Cheshire cat's smile, in the lore of LENR, it would be UV or alternatively 'self-luminescence'. A few nano-materials are "so luminescent" that OU is suspected. Resonance energy transfer is a mechanism by which energy is transferred directly from one molecule to another. Often this transfer occurs not by an actual 'touching' of the electron cloud, but over a very small distance, usually less than 10 nm, which is on the order of the size of a typical protein nanobe or some viruses. But as our moderator, BillB has opined "suppose there are hydrogen-eating bacteria which excrete hydrinos and harness ultraviolet photons? We'd recognize them because they could put out immense thermal energy while apparently consuming no fuel. If a human body became infected... they could cause charring! Maybe they're even a natural component of humans, which would explain the Yogi claims where some people can survive for years without eating." ...not to mention SHC, but let's don't go there. Bill argues in one of his papers aimed at High School Science fair candidates - that "Decades ago, Wilhelm Reich, the psychologist who got involved with "Orgone" life energy and "Orgone Box" therapy, reportedly cultured a strange organism. This organism caused eye irritation and gave sun-tans to anyone who worked with those petri dishes. Those organisms were odd: they were much smaller than known bacteria, they glowed blue... and they were extreme hyperthermophiles. Reich dubbed these organisms " bions." Today they are called Nanobes are have been more or less proven. If these extreme-hyperthermophile "blacklight power" bacteria occur widely in nature, then this could explain Reich's results. And they seem so simple to repeat, that high school students could probably make some "Hard-UV emitting" bacterial cultures for their School Science Fair. " Sooner or later, some free-thinking highschool prodigy is going to take up this challenge, but until then ... check out papers like this where arguable - OU is present (if you are really bored and like to read between the lines): "Staircase-like spectral dependence of ground-state luminescence time constants in high-density InAs/GaAs quantum dots" Yu. I. Mazur, et al. "Transient luminescence of dense InAs/GaAs quantum dot arrays" J. W. Tomm and al. IOW there is good reason to suspect that the first "official" recognition of OU - coming from mainstream physics - will come from the study of "excitonics" and "quantum dots" and from self-luminescence. Unless, of course, some Aussie can really run his auto for a few days on a Joe Cell. *Self-power* (in the sense of perpetual motion) is really the only thing which will make mainstream science perk-up out of a 2nd-Law stupor and take a serious look at orgone. Jones From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 30 09:39:16 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3UGcspV011410; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 09:38:55 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3UGcrWP011386; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 09:38:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 09:38:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:38:47 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: Hydrino orgone In-reply-to: <2.2.32.20060430050949.00b57cac@pop.freeserve.net> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67852 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Cool. Harry Grimer wrote: > At 09:48 am 30/04/2006 +1000, you wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I just came across this:- >> >> http://www.nutech2000.com/webtext/forum/hydrinopower.html > > > Sounds plausible. For example, it would be difficult for > someone to invent the following since it is unlikely they > would understand the concept of negative energy. > > ============================================================ > One of the difficulties of the JOE cell appeared to be that > the motor ran so cold that the water in circulation in the > car motor froze. It was proposed that the water in the cars > cooling system be replaced with hydraulic fluid which doesn't > freeze as readily. > ============================================================ > > That statement sounds as though it comes from a "garage" > experimentalist who is not inhibited by conventional > theory and does not realise the what he is doing is > supposed to be impossible. > > The idea of using cold as an energy source reminds one of a > Stirling engine running on ice. > > Mmmm....interesting. > > Frank Grimer > > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 30 10:05:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3UH4xea026953; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 10:04:59 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3UH4wYm026936; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 10:04:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 10:04:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 13:04:54 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: A theory of cold To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67854 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: When you rub your hands together they get warm. Why? Well, if cold is an incompressible fluid then the cold is being pushed out. This theory is an inversion of the old caloric theory of heat. Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 30 10:09:40 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3UGn3IO017378; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 09:49:04 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3UGn0jn017294; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 09:49:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 09:49:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:48:51 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: A Brief History of Hot and Cold To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67853 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Eugene Mallove's perspective: The Mysteries of Myths of Heat: A Brief History of Hot and Cold Published in Issue #37, May/June 2001 http://www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazine/issue37/mysteries.html From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 30 10:10:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3UHA3RK030751; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 10:10:09 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3UH67T8027677; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 10:06:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 10:06:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Z3s8vS6hlRqEXUg2bnWWP16ICi939aR/QRhaPMQEMK/AIy8fTTbb3fVR4i1obnou; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006403017555577@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Hydrino orgone Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 11:05:55 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940ff97c80e58f3a45f802abb249cdd9f2a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.101 Resent-Message-ID: <_BIkrD.A.ZwG.-5OVEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67855 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Posted earlier. > > The predominant factor as seen in most OU effects is the > transient exposure of atoms-molecules to low pressure "soft vacuum". > Vortices, Orgone, MAHG, Cavitation Bubbles, Exploding Lightbulbs, > and so on. > > Almost as though "soft vacuum" exposure allows the Casimir Force > to collapse the electron clouds closer into the nuclei. WIMPS? > > Or conversely, the electron clouds expand outwardly from the > nuclei by ZPE pumping and they collapse into the normal "ambient/ground state" > when exposed to a triggering energy. > > BTW II, wasn't the F & P Cell calorimetry setup condensing > the "recombiner steam " causing a "soft vacuum" inside? > Before it exploded. No? Also has anyone noticed that when things get interesting "Judge Beene" throws up an gaseous armada of barrage balloons, and a covey of quail, or a school of red herrings to detract/distract from the topic. Others have mentioned privately that there might be sinister minister working for "other side" at work here. :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Posted earlier.
>
>  The predominant factor as seen in most OU effects is the
> transient exposure of atoms-molecules to low pressure "soft vacuum".
> Vortices, Orgone, MAHG, Cavitation Bubbles, Exploding Lightbulbs,
> and so on.
>
> Almost as though "soft vacuum" exposure allows the Casimir Force
> to collapse the electron clouds  closer into the nuclei. WIMPS?
>
> Or conversely, the electron clouds expand outwardly from the
> nuclei by ZPE pumping and they collapse into the normal "ambient/ground state"
> when exposed to a triggering energy.
>
> BTW II, wasn't the F & P Cell calorimetry setup condensing
> the "recombiner steam " causing a "soft vacuum" inside?
>
Before it exploded. No?
Also has anyone noticed that when things get interesting
"Judge Beene" throws up an gaseous armada of barrage balloons,
and a covey of quail, or a school of red herrings to detract/distract
from the topic. Others have mentioned privately that
there might be sinister minister working for "other side" at work here.  :-)
 
Fred
 
 
 
 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 30 10:37:06 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3UHajXf012850; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 10:36:46 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3UHahp9012813; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 10:36:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 10:36:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=SMI80HH+xC5UKEJFuqKz6MTH3RNSTyygwmSEdqUnVqDQ+/QhaKNS0GFJlSSbpR0Y; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064030173631968@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: A Brief History of Hot and Cold Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 11:36:31 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940f51819d1323419d0af0119f44e8fa678350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.101 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67856 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Harry Veeder wrote. > > > Eugene Mallove's perspective: > > The Mysteries of Myths of Heat: A Brief History of Hot and Cold > Published in Issue #37, May/June 2001 > > http://www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazine/issue37/mysteries.html > Interesting reading Harry. But you can bring a bucket of minus 77 K cold Tc from a comet in space and let it do work in compliance with the Carnot efficiency by letting it warm to 300 K Th ( room temperature) using an "engine". Carnot efficiency = .1 - Tc/Th or delta T/Th. = 74.33 % Fred From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 30 11:20:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3UIK4re003923; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 11:20:04 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3UIIGjW002999; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 11:18:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 11:18:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060430181811876.1555F340008A@mwinf3116.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060430181812.00b567c4@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:18:12 +0100 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Hydrino orgone Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67857 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:59 am 30/04/2006 -0600, Fred wrote: > Richard wrote. >> Howdy Fred and Grimer, >> Any high school physics student can tell something >> is missing from the concept of thermodynamics. > The Negative/"plate-push" Casimir Force and the > Negative Heat (ZPE) Vacuum, perhaps? >> The trouble with saddling a strange horse in the >> dark is the risk of choosing a 3 legged one. >> Once in the saddle you are not only in for a >> rough ride, it's embarrassing when daylight comes > Or you could lend your steed a hand. :-) >> However, when one is stuck for transportation >> trying to get where one's going, >> one must be creative in their posture. >I think they call it crawling when you do that. Or even brown nosing. ;-) >> Either laugh it off or deride those on polkadot horses. > Or Gold Caddies. >> Thus the plight of certain areas of mainstream science. > As strange as the Joe Cell - Hydrino Orgone "presentations" are, > ignorance may very well be bliss, as Frank Grimer suggests. He has indeed deposuit potentes de sede et exaltavit humiles. > Hydrino is a catchy name for a "Weakly Interacting Massive > Particle" WIMP, created by transitory exposure to the low > pressure "soft vacuum" ........ In terms of the Beta-atmosphere that should be "hard vacuum". See explanation below. > ............that both of these have in common. > That is to say, low pressure electrolysis cells that provide > the heat of vaporization of the water and also use the > evaporated water vapor H2O as a carrier for the generated > OH and H or H3O free radicals which may concurrently be > "expanding or contracting due to Casimir-Vacuum ZPE effects > with the low "Cell" pressures (~ 60 liters/gram vapour > densities) created by the engine suction/manifold pressure. >Fred Yep. I think our ideas are slowly converging and we are getting there. As shown by what I call the PV^6 relation (but what might be more intelligible if I called it the B-atm.pressure + applied pressure)^6 = a constant where B-atm.pressure is approx. 4000 atmospheres) there is a hard B-atm vacuum of -60,000 psi in the spaces between the water molecule/clusters and this is responsible for the unrecognised physics. Think of it at very low temperature which shrinks thingees or the inverse, very high Compreture which squashes thingees. 8-) Cheers, Frank From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 30 11:25:08 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3UIOw4I006220; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 11:24:58 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3UIOuD6006195; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 11:24:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 11:24:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 14:24:22 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: A Brief History of Hot and Cold In-reply-to: <410-220064030173631968@earthlink.net> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: <9qkJND.A.tgB.4DQVEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67858 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick Sparber wrote: > Harry Veeder wrote. >> >> >> Eugene Mallove's perspective: >> >> The Mysteries of Myths of Heat: A Brief History of Hot and Cold >> Published in Issue #37, May/June 2001 >> >> http://www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazine/issue37/mysteries.html >> > Interesting reading Harry. > But you can bring a bucket of minus 77 K cold Tc from a > comet in space and let it do work in compliance with the > Carnot efficiency by letting it warm to 300 K Th > ( room temperature) using an "engine". > > Carnot efficiency = .1 - Tc/Th or delta T/Th. = 74.33 % > > Fred > This is correct if you are only considering the work produced after you have the ice. However, will more work be produced than used in retrieving the ice from the comet? The second law says no. Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 30 11:27:12 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3UIR1ta007332; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 11:27:01 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3UIQx7I007293; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 11:26:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 11:26:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060430182656745.1227C2000083@mwinf3111.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060430182657.00b466e0@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:26:57 +0100 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Do FRET Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67859 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:56 am 30/04/2006 -0700, you wrote: >If you Wimpy, or even Macho, then FRETing is a good thing. > >FRET is an acronym for "Fluorescence Resonance Energy Transfer" >and usually relates to techniques used in imaging and microscopy >of proteins and viruses, but there are definite implications of >FRET to the field of ZPE coherence. > >Fluorescence is related to the UV spectrum and the UV spectrum >often turns up in many reports of energy anomalies - certainly it >is the key to the hydrino technology. If there is a candidate for >the Cheshire cat's smile, in the lore of LENR, it would be UV or >alternatively 'self-luminescence'. A few nano-materials are "so >luminescent" that OU is suspected. > >Resonance energy transfer is a mechanism by which energy is >transferred directly from one molecule to another. Often this >transfer occurs not by an actual 'touching' of the electron cloud, >but over a very small distance, usually less than 10 nm, which is >on the order of the size of a typical protein nanobe or some >viruses. > >But as our moderator, BillB has opined "suppose there are >hydrogen-eating bacteria which excrete hydrinos and harness >ultraviolet photons? We'd recognize them because they could put >out immense thermal energy while apparently consuming no fuel. If >a human body became infected... they could cause charring! Maybe >they're even a natural component of humans, which would explain >the Yogi claims where some people can survive for years without >eating." ...not to mention SHC, but let's don't go there. > >Bill argues in one of his papers aimed at High School Science fair >candidates - that "Decades ago, Wilhelm Reich, the psychologist >who got involved with "Orgone" life energy and "Orgone Box" >therapy, reportedly cultured a strange organism. This organism >caused eye irritation and gave sun-tans to anyone who worked with >those petri dishes. Those organisms were odd: they were much >smaller than known bacteria, they glowed blue... and they were >extreme hyperthermophiles. Reich dubbed these organisms " bions." > >Today they are called Nanobes are have been more or less proven. > >If these extreme-hyperthermophile "blacklight power" bacteria >occur widely in nature, then this could explain Reich's results. >And they seem so simple to repeat, that high school students could >probably make some "Hard-UV emitting" bacterial cultures for their >School >Science Fair. " > >Sooner or later, some free-thinking highschool prodigy is going to >take up this challenge, but until then ... check out papers like >this where arguable - OU is present (if you are really bored and >like to read between the lines): > >"Staircase-like spectral dependence of ground-state luminescence >time constants in high-density InAs/GaAs quantum dots" >Yu. I. Mazur, et al. > >"Transient luminescence of dense InAs/GaAs quantum dot arrays" >J. W. Tomm and al. > >IOW there is good reason to suspect that the first "official" >recognition of OU - coming from mainstream physics - will come >from the study of "excitonics" and "quantum dots" and from >self-luminescence. > >Unless, of course, some Aussie can really run his auto for a few >days on a Joe Cell. *Self-power* (in the sense of perpetual >motion) is really the only thing which will make mainstream >science perk-up out of a 2nd-Law stupor and take a serious look at >orgone. > >Jones I wish the hell we could get rid of the stupid name orgone - it sounds like a cross between organism and orgasm. That and the rest of the metaphysical nonsense associated with it is enough to put anyone off. Hydrino is a peach by comparison. From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 30 11:41:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3UIfXkh014974; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 11:41:33 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3UIfVXd014945; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 11:41:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 11:41:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Ct0vEd1qTRmaYINavygpG9m7ole7ZLVRkr6GPgjM/wF9KOj8uecmcW92zi0eF6xI; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064030184117455@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: A Brief History of Hot and Cold Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:41:17 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940d90646f2a2d0b12ba4a55f477fc187af350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.165.76 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67860 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Harry Veeder wrote. > > Frederick Sparber wrote: > > > Interesting reading Harry. > > But you can bring a bucket of minus 77 K cold Tc from a > > comet in space and let it do work in compliance with the > > Carnot efficiency by letting it warm to 300 K Th > > ( room temperature) using an "engine". > > > > Carnot efficiency = .1 - Tc/Th or delta T/Th. = 74.33 % > > > > This is correct if you are only considering the work produced after you have > the ice. However, will more work be produced than used in retrieving the ice > from the comet? The second law says no. > The 1908 Tunguska Event says yes. http://www.galisteo.com/tunguska/docs/splitsky.html "Some have suggested it was a black hole. Others have wondered if it was a piece of anti-matter. A Japanese UFO group (Sakura), headed by Kozo Kowai, are convinced that it was the explosion of the nuclear power plant of an errant vehicle belonging to extraterrestrials. A number of science-fiction accounts have degraded the event to fantasy. Some critics hold that the entire history of nearly five decades of field work represents little more than a chain of mistakes. Most scientists disagree and point to a comet or an asteroid being the cosmic culprit." It's mass and velocity were estimated from it's energy release. Fred > > Harry > > Fred > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 30 11:50:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3UIok9K020448; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 11:50:47 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3UIojei020427; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 11:50:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 11:50:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=f7PYdV9o/Nkx57AF2j2umDS1NLqFZTHoxlr8b5/ZGpqeZdKkhWXD6jNTFa0LMXfo; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064030185039232@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Do FRET Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:50:39 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9405c98f10281bdf7e7875e50dfad589e5a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.165.76 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67861 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Grimer wrote. > > > I wish the hell we could get rid of the stupid name > orgone - it sounds like a cross between organism > and orgasm. That and the rest of the metaphysical > nonsense associated with it is enough to put anyone > off. Hydrino is a peach by comparison. > How about letter "F-ing" it to Forgone?? :-) Fred From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 30 12:07:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3UJ7PEf028637; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:07:26 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3UJ7Ol7028626; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:07:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:07:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060430190722712.115DF2400086@mwinf3102.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060430190723.00b63e1c@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 20:07:23 +0100 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: RE: A Brief History of Hot and Cold Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67862 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:36 am 30/04/2006 -0600, you wrote: >Harry Veeder wrote. >> >> >> Eugene Mallove's perspective: >> >> The Mysteries of Myths of Heat: A Brief History of Hot and Cold >> Published in Issue #37, May/June 2001 >> >> http://www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazine/issue37/mysteries.html >> >Interesting reading Harry. >But you can bring a bucket of minus 77 K cold Tc from a >comet in space and let it do work in compliance with the >Carnot efficiency by letting it warm to 300 K Th >( room temperature) using an "engine". > >Carnot efficiency = .1 - Tc/Th or delta T/Th. = 74.33 % > >Fred Or even tow an iceberg to a warmer clime and use it to both run a Stirling engine/dynamo and provide fresh water. You would own both of the Monopoly Board Public Utilities (assuming that is the US board has the same utilities as the British). Frank I've just looked it up..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_(game)#Properties_in_detail .....and they do. 8-) From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 30 12:12:12 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3UJC0o5031186; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:12:00 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3UJBwHQ031151; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:11:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:11:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=ZvblAOFUHslMEoAI8PjlXB+KKgvy0kXQ1qfx31VomVJXaAW+5Ovg66WibvVT2ktk; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220064030191152884@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Hydrino orgone Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 13:11:52 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940c03f330c91343c96ff2ee11fc04bfd57350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.165.76 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67863 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Grimer wrote. > > At 06:59 am 30/04/2006 -0600, Fred wrote: > > > > As strange as the Joe Cell - Hydrino Orgone "presentations" are, > > ignorance may very well be bliss, as Frank Grimer suggests. > > > He has indeed deposuit potentes de sede et exaltavit humiles. > I hope you're not insulting me in your style of English. > > > Hydrino is a catchy name for a "Weakly Interacting Massive > > Particle" WIMP, created by transitory exposure to the low > > pressure "soft vacuum" ........ > > In terms of the Beta-atmosphere that should be "hard vacuum". > See explanation below. > Okay, Frank. By "soft vacuum" I was referring to residual atoms-molecules with enough mean-free-path "spacing" to allow hard vacuum interaction with them viz the Casimir plates pushing together, usually the force is measured in a good vacuum. > > > That is to say, low pressure electrolysis cells that provide > > the heat of vaporization of the water and also use the > > evaporated water vapor H2O as a carrier for the generated > > OH and H or H3O free radicals which may concurrently be > > "expanding or contracting due to Casimir-Vacuum ZPE effects > > with the low "Cell" pressures (~ 60 liters/gram vapour > > densities) created by the engine suction/manifold pressure. > > > Yep. I think our ideas are slowly converging and we are > getting there. As shown by what I call the PV^6 relation > > (but what might be more intelligible if I called it the > B-atm.pressure + applied pressure)^6 = a constant > where B-atm.pressure is approx. 4000 atmospheres) > Hal Puthoff once told me that the Casimir Plate force was 1/D^4 Does that come out the same, or could the be seeing electromagnetic interaction? Van der waals forces are 6th -12th power aren't they? > > there is a hard B-atm vacuum of -60,000 psi in the spaces > between the water molecule/clusters and this is responsible > for the unrecognised physics. Think of it at very low > temperature which shrinks thingees or the inverse, very > high Compreture which squashes thingees. 8-) > Right, Frank. Thanks for staying on topic. :-) Fred > > Cheers, > > Frank > > From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 30 12:13:16 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3UJCtib031553; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:12:55 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3UJCrVZ031530; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:12:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:12:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060430191247544.0D45B5800086@mwinf3114.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060430191248.00b383dc@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 20:12:48 +0100 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Do FRET Resent-Message-ID: <9h4bs.A.jsH.1wQVEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67864 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:50 pm 30/04/2006 -0600, Fred wrote: >Grimer wrote. >> >> >> I wish the hell we could get rid of the stupid name >> orgone - it sounds like a cross between organism >> and orgasm. That and the rest of the metaphysical >> nonsense associated with it is enough to put anyone >> off. Hydrino is a peach by comparison. >> >How about letter "F-ing" it to Forgone?? :-) > >Fred Yes, eff-off.ing is definitely a good idea. 8-) From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 30 12:35:16 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3UJZ00t013634; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:35:00 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3UJYxsx013619; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:34:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:34:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060430193454661.A16445C00088@mwinf3113.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060430193456.00b63630@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 20:34:56 +0100 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: Hydrino orgone Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67865 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:11 pm 30/04/2006 -0600, Fred wrote: >Grimer wrote. >> He has indeed deposuit potentes de sede et exaltavit humiles. >I hope you're not insulting me in your style of English. I was referring to the garage experimenters. As for it being an insult - hardly. It's a line from the Magnificat, a hymn of praise to the Mother of God. >>> Hydrino is a catchy name for a "Weakly Interacting Massive >>> Particle" WIMP, created by transitory exposure to the low >>> pressure "soft vacuum" ........ >> >> In terms of the Beta-atmosphere that should be "hard vacuum". >> See explanation below. > Okay, Frank. By "soft vacuum" I was referring to residual > atoms-molecules with enough mean-free-path "spacing" to allow > hard vacuum interaction with them viz the Casimir plates > pushing together, usually the force is measured in a good vacuum. > ... > Hal Puthoff once told me that the Casimir Plate force was 1/D^4 Yep. But as I pointed in previous posts (Vortex or B-atm.Group) the fourth power relates to the 1D case. For 2D and 3D you have 8th and 12th powers respectively as illustrated by the vapour pressure laws of H2O. So if we have any clustering the higher powers will apply. Cheers, Frank From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 30 12:37:14 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3UJaxmV014437; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:36:59 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3UJaw37014410; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:36:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:36:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 15:36:27 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: A Brief History of Hot and Cold In-reply-to: <410-220064030184117455@earthlink.net> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67866 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Frederick Sparber wrote: > Harry Veeder wrote. >> >> Frederick Sparber wrote: >> >>> Interesting reading Harry. >>> But you can bring a bucket of minus 77 K cold Tc from a >>> comet in space and let it do work in compliance with the >>> Carnot efficiency by letting it warm to 300 K Th >>> ( room temperature) using an "engine". >>> >>> Carnot efficiency = .1 - Tc/Th or delta T/Th. = 74.33 % >>> >> >> This is correct if you are only considering the work produced after you > have >> the ice. However, will more work be produced than used in retrieving the > ice >> from the comet? The second law says no. >> > The 1908 Tunguska Event says yes. > > http://www.galisteo.com/tunguska/docs/splitsky.html > > "Some have suggested it was a black hole. Others have wondered if it was a > piece of anti-matter. A Japanese UFO group (Sakura), headed by Kozo Kowai, > are convinced that it was the explosion of the nuclear power plant of an > errant vehicle belonging to extraterrestrials. A number of science-fiction > accounts have degraded the event to fantasy. Some critics hold that the > entire history of nearly five decades of field work represents little more > than a chain of mistakes. Most scientists disagree and point to a comet or > an asteroid being the cosmic culprit." > > It's mass and velocity were estimated from it's energy release. > > Fred This is still consistent with the second law, because the comet came to Earth. In other words you did not have to do work by sending a spacecraft to mine ice from the comet. Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 30 12:44:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3UJiYvC019201; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:44:34 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3UJiXph019181; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:44:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:44:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 15:44:32 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: A Brief History of Hot and Cold In-reply-to: <2.2.32.20060430190723.00b63e1c@pop.freeserve.net> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: <5UEt2.A.prE.gORVEB@ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67867 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Grimer wrote: > > > Or even tow an iceberg to a warmer clime and use it to both > run a Stirling engine/dynamo and provide fresh water. You would > own both of the Monopoly Board Public Utilities (assuming that > is the US board has the same utilities as the British). > > Frank > > I've just looked it up..... > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_(game)#Properties_in_detail > .....and they do. 8-) > > Global warming appears to be diminishing the capacity of the Earth to renew its ice fields. :-( Harry From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 30 12:53:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3UJrIbe023611; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:53:19 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3UJrGbm023578; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:53:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:53:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=YLOPgIam9leXSKAvX8gE/JxH3/pFyFvG0PbJrfEz8vAK0Heo1bj5J/y4wbLDLW3A; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006403019533714@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber@earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: Hydrino orgone Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 13:53:03 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940ad5e36f114e22f110dd22105be9bae74350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.74 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67868 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Low pressure effects and turbulence in tornados-hurricanes-vortices aside for the moment, J. L.. Naudin's pulsed MAHG was at about 80 torr pressure. The pulsing at ~ 1.0 millisecond on and ~ 19 milliseconds off would be a way that might have vacuum effects similar to those that seem to be occurring in the J Cell. Hard to say what was going on in his calorimetry under the conditions where the "hydrino collapse- expansion" was drawing heat from the water in it one moment and adding it the next. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Low pressure effects and turbulence in tornados-hurricanes-vortices aside
for the moment, J. L.. Naudin's pulsed MAHG was at about 80 torr pressure.
 
The pulsing at ~ 1.0 millisecond on and ~ 19 milliseconds off
would be a way that might have vacuum effects similar to
those that seem to be occurring in the J Cell.
Hard to say what was going on in his calorimetry under the conditions
where the "hydrino collapse- expansion" was drawing heat from the water in it
one moment and adding it the next.
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Apr 30 14:31:12 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3ULV1YK004067; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 14:31:01 -0700 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k3ULUx3M004037; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 14:30:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 14:30:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request@eskimo.com using -f X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp (2006-03-10) on mailadmin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.6 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE,HTML_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.1.1-cvtv_w9f4wgtp Message-ID: <000c01c66c9d$5573b730$8d027841@xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: Macho WIMP? Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 16:30:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C66C73.6BAC4A50" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67869 X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C66C73.6BAC4A50 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0009_01C66C73.6BAF5790" ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C66C73.6BAF5790 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankJones wrote... >WIMPs may be transitory and on "decay" leave an implosion effect. As to the large estimated mass, compared to standard particles -=20 the WIMP may not even be a single particle but a collective=20 remnant of many real particles. Consider it as a "shadow" or as a "relic of displacement" ... kind=20 of like a short-physical-memory .. Howdy Jones, one of our Vorts resident "Wordsmiths" Perhaps a visible similar event occurs with the " afterglo" noticed = after the sudden darkening of a room and the cathode ray TV screen = continues to cast a decaying glow. =20 Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C66C73.6BAF5790 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Jones wrote...

>WIMPs may be transitory and on "decay" leave an implosion=20 effect.
As to the large estimated mass, compared to standard = particles -=20

the WIMP may not even be a single particle but a collective =
remnant=20 of many real particles.

Consider it as a "shadow" or as a "relic = of=20 displacement" ... kind
of like a short-physical-memory ..
 
 
Howdy Jones, one of our Vorts resident "Wordsmiths"
 
Perhaps a visible similar event occurs with the " afterglo"=20 noticed after the sudden darkening of a room and the  cathode = ray TV=20 screen continues to cast a decaying glow.
 
 
Richard
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