From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 1 04:17:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k61BH8R0017487; Sat, 1 Jul 2006 04:17:09 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k61BH6jn017459; Sat, 1 Jul 2006 04:17:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 04:17:06 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20060701071556.02012090 localhost> X-Sender: mica%pop.theworld.com 127.0.0.1 (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 07:16:37 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: [Vo]: PLEASE ....Taleyarkhan Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=10.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on pcls2.std.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1578/Fri Jun 30 05:34:32 2006 on pcls2.std.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Resent-Message-ID: <7Y45YD.A.qQE.ymlpEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69445 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:24 AM 7/1/2006 -0400, you wrote: > Dear Vo., > > Who is "Taleyarkhan" and what is-are the work related to the person. > > Can anyone provide a simple lay person note on the topic? > > Further: > > Can anyone provide a BBGB of the basic work or theory? > > AND: > > Can ANY Vo provide a general BBGB for reports of work from the >best of the modicum of the last 1 to 5 years of real world work ANYONE >has reported that may indicate a useful energy conversion method or >methodolgies? > > Hmmm.... ? > >Is this ..uh... to difficult a question? You can find many links to him, his work, and his detractors, and this debate at the COLD FUSION TIMES web site. Cold Fusion Times http://world.std.com/~mica/cft.html The journal of the scientific aspects of loading isotopic fuels into materials ISSN# 1072-2874 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 1 04:18:21 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k61BI7JR017926; Sat, 1 Jul 2006 04:18:08 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k61BI5ZY017907; Sat, 1 Jul 2006 04:18:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 04:18:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060701111757445.6CB5A6400082 mwinf3109.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060701111757.00c0d750 pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 12:17:57 +0100 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: [VO]:Re: Is Spacetime a Superfluid Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69446 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:06 pm 30/06/2006 -0500, Richard wrote: >...... "everything is held together by the power of His Word". > Richard Or in technical terms, by Itereative Hierarchical Strain. 8-) Frank From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 1 05:33:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k61CXaS0023022; Sat, 1 Jul 2006 05:33:36 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k61CXXSf022990; Sat, 1 Jul 2006 05:33:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 05:33:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-CVTV-Spamfilter: Scanned X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Virus-Scanned: by McAfee Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <002701c69d0a$8914e6c0$d7027841 xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: [VO]:Re: Is Spacetime a Superfluid? Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 07:33:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0023_01C69CE0.9FBD0490" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69447 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C69CE0.9FBD0490 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0024_01C69CE0.9FBE8B30" ------=_NextPart_001_0024_01C69CE0.9FBE8B30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankAt 06:06 pm 30/06/2006 -0500, Richard wrote: >...... "everything is held together by the power of His Word".=20 > Richard Or in technical terms, by Itereative Hierarchical Strain. 8-) Frank Howdy Frank, Not only is "everything held together by the power of His Word", the = world's most technically correct science textbook also states.... " and = it was good". Now what is this "good " word supposed to mean?=20 Permanent magnets were openly discussed in the Vorts room. A magnet of = this type is a most complete example of a true "vortex" in its function. = The magnet has "poles", it has vortex " action" and it is " balanced". = It is a good example of "good". A vortex produces an "upward" flow on its periphery while it produces a = "downward" flow at the face off the inner eyewall.The actions taing = place inside the inner eyewall is Beta A. The base is not actually a = "base" but an entrance and exit to its "balanced" opposite... hmmm". = Does this describe a torus ring? No. A torus ring only describes a = single function of a vortex. The meaning of "the heavens rolled up like a scroll " sounds remarkably = like the actions of a "spiral" which is again .. only a single function = of a vortex. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0024_01C69CE0.9FBE8B30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
At 06:06 pm 30/06/2006 -0500, Richard = wrote:



>......=20 "everything is held together by the power of His Word".

>=20 Richard

Or in technical terms, by Itereative Hierarchical=20 Strain.   8-)

Frank
Howdy Frank,
 
 Not only is "everything held together by the power of His = Word", the=20 world's most technically correct science textbook also states.... " and = it was=20 good".          Now what is = this=20 "good " word supposed to mean?
 
Permanent magnets were openly discussed in the Vorts room. A magnet = of this=20 type is a most complete example of a true "vortex" in its function. The = magnet=20 has "poles", it has vortex " action" and it is " balanced". It is a good = example=20 of "good". <grin>
A vortex produces an "upward" flow on its periphery while it = produces=20 a "downward" flow at the face off the inner=20 eyewall.The actions taing place inside the inner eyewall is = Beta=20 A. The base is  not actually a "base"  but an entrance = and exit=20 to its "balanced" opposite... hmmm". Does this describe a torus ring? = No. A=20 torus ring only describes a single function of a vortex.
The meaning of "the heavens rolled up like a scroll " sounds = remarkably=20 like the actions of a "spiral" which is again .. only a single function = of a=20 vortex.
 
Richard

 

------=_NextPart_001_0024_01C69CE0.9FBE8B30-- ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C69CE0.9FBD0490 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <002201c69d0a$888fff50$d7027841 xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C69CE0.9FBD0490-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 1 11:17:55 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k61IHPjS015736; Sat, 1 Jul 2006 11:17:25 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k61IHKuC015688; Sat, 1 Jul 2006 11:17:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 11:17:20 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060701111651.02aa3478 mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 11:22:58 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: Re: [Vo]: WHO? Taleyarkhan In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_930800046==.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69448 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=====================_930800046==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi John, >Can anyone please offer a simple lay person.... Yes, in a single sentence....Take a container filled with a form of hydrogen in a solution... shoot sound waves in it ...see if you can create intense rapid waves of compresssion/decompression ..intense enough to cause the nuclei to fuse. Want more tech info? Go here: http://newenergytimes.com/Conversations/StringhamR/StringhamR.htm Want to know about the controversy? Go here: http://newenergytimes.com/news/2006/MediaTrackOfThePurdueBubbleFusionStory.htm Want New Energy Times' perspective? Go here: On Science, Journalism, and Nature Best regards, Steve --=====================_930800046==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Hi John,

>Can anyone please offer a simple lay person....

Yes, in a single sentence....Take a container filled with a form of hydrogen in a solution... shoot sound waves in it ...see if you can create intense rapid waves of compresssion/decompression ..intense enough to cause the nuclei to fuse.

Want more tech info? Go here: http://newenergytimes.com/Conversations/StringhamR/StringhamR.htm

Want to know about the controversy? Go here: http://newenergytimes.com/news/2006/MediaTrackOfThePurdueBubbleFusionStory.htm

Want New Energy Times' perspective? Go here: On Science, Journalism, and Nature

Best regards,

Steve

--=====================_930800046==.ALT-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 1 11:53:46 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k61IrWXj001319; Sat, 1 Jul 2006 11:53:33 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k61IrSFh001268; Sat, 1 Jul 2006 11:53:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 11:53:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060701185323632.9A54E1C00085 mwinf3007.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060701185323.00be8e64 pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 19:53:23 +0100 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Is Spacetime a Superfluid Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69449 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:48 pm 30/06/2006 -0400, Terry wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: RC Macaulay > >> As close as I have ever been able >> to fathom the mystery is a subtle >> passage in the bible where the wording >> states... "everything is held >> together by the power of His word". > ><><><><><> > > Yes. And, although I have never heard > him say it, I think Grimer believes > that his atmosphere hierarchy is the > physical manifestation. Now wouldn't that be amazing. 8-) > But it is our destiny to seek the Truth. > Terry Indeed it is. Unfortunately, all too often, we end up being satisfied with Wales. Frank ==================================== dixit itaque ei Pilatus ergo rex es tu respondit Iesus tu dicis quia rex sum ego ego in hoc natus sum et ad hoc veni in mundum ut testimonium perhibeam veritati omnis qui est ex veritate audit meam vocem ==================================== From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 1 13:05:02 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k61K4iIY012466; Sat, 1 Jul 2006 13:04:45 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k61K4grL012437; Sat, 1 Jul 2006 13:04:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 13:04:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060701130427.02aac610 mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 13:10:26 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Cc: "jnorberg-purdue.edu" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_937247734==.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: <509yMD.A.NCD.ZVtpEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69450 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Purdue news or not Status: O X-Status: --=====================_937247734==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Folks: I have learnt that Purdue's review panel found no evidence of > scientific wrong doing on Taleyarkhan's part, and are expected to issue > an appropriate announcement in due course. I just got off the phone with Jeanne Norberg, spokesperson for Purdue. She tells me that this is not what has been said, that the only, and most recent communication has been this http://newenergytimes.com/news/2006/NewsFlash-June20-Purdue.htm So -- if someone can lead me to a reliable source on the statement above, I'll be happy to track it. s --=====================_937247734==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Folks: I have learnt that Purdue's review panel found no evidence of
> scientific wrong doing on Taleyarkhan's part, and are expected to issue
> an appropriate announcement in due course.

I just got off the phone with Jeanne Norberg, spokesperson for Purdue. She tells me that this is not what has been said, that the only, and most recent communication has been this http://newenergytimes.com/news/2006/NewsFlash-June20-Purdue.htm

So -- if someone can lead me to a reliable source on the statement above, I'll be happy to track it.

s
--=====================_937247734==.ALT-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 1 15:39:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k61Md2bS021082; Sat, 1 Jul 2006 15:39:02 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k61Md0CD021031; Sat, 1 Jul 2006 15:39:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 15:39:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-CVTV-Spamfilter: Scanned X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Virus-Scanned: by McAfee Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <001b01c69d5f$1f01e670$38027841 xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: [VO]: Re: Purdue news or not Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 17:38:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01C69D35.35887280" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69451 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C69D35.35887280 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0018_01C69D35.35887280" ------=_NextPart_001_0018_01C69D35.35887280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankSteven Krivit wrote.. Folks: I have learnt that Purdue's review panel found no evidence of > scientific wrong doing on Taleyarkhan's part, and are expected to = issue > an appropriate announcement in due course. I just got off the phone with Jeanne Norberg, spokesperson for Purdue. = She tells me that this is not what has been said Howdy Steven.. He said, she said..hmmm. Spokesperson ?? One that announces who will = be the the fall guy. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0018_01C69D35.35887280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Steven Krivit wrote..

Folks: I have learnt that Purdue's review panel found no evidence = of
>=20 scientific wrong doing on Taleyarkhan's part, and are expected to = issue
>=20 an appropriate announcement in due course.

I just got off the = phone with=20 Jeanne Norberg, spokesperson for Purdue. She tells me that this is not = what has=20 been said

Howdy Steven..

He said, she said..hmmm.  Spokesperson ??  One=20 that announces who will be the the fall guy.

Richard

------=_NextPart_001_0018_01C69D35.35887280-- ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C69D35.35887280 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <001601c69d5f$1e524580$38027841 xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C69D35.35887280-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 1 17:34:54 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k620QLx5006609; Sat, 1 Jul 2006 17:26:21 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k620QIuE006576; Sat, 1 Jul 2006 17:26:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 17:26:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [VO]:Re: Is Spacetime a Superfluid? Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 10:26:02 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <5b4ea21b78cijes3b9ctc7snaijsr60a1q 4ax.com> References: <002701c69d0a$8914e6c0$d7027841 xptower> In-Reply-To: <002701c69d0a$8914e6c0$d7027841 xptower> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta05ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.55.100] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Sun, 2 Jul 2006 00:26:01 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k620QCF7006449 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69452 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to RC Macaulay's message of Sat, 1 Jul 2006 07:33:19 -0500: Hi, [snip] >Permanent magnets were openly discussed in the Vorts room. A magnet of this type is a most complete example of a true "vortex" in its function. The magnet has "poles", it has vortex " action" and it is " balanced". It is a good example of "good". >A vortex produces an "upward" flow on its periphery while it produces a "downward" flow at the face off the inner eyewall. Based on this notion, it occurred to me that a horizontal compass placed centrally above one pole of a vertical bar magnet might rotate. I tried it a few months back, but saw no sign of rotation. Mind you, it was very difficult to get the compass to stay balanced. Perhaps another Vort will have more luck. :) [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 1 18:19:03 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k621ImPx001570; Sat, 1 Jul 2006 18:18:49 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k621IlIA001558; Sat, 1 Jul 2006 18:18:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 18:18:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Excess hydrogen without much excess heat Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 11:18:44 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <066ea2tch80neqbasnbrhk3s0tgqser5rb 4ax.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060628150533.04056590 mindspring.com> <44A2E13C.8090104@pobox.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060628165502.03ed3d60@mindspring.com> In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060628165502.03ed3d60 mindspring.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta05sl.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.55.100] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Sun, 2 Jul 2006 01:18:43 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k621Iifh001525 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69453 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Wed, 28 Jun 2006 17:18:49 -0400: Hi, [snip] >For one overall run, >electrolysis alone would have produced 460 cc of hydrogen and 1470 cc >of gas was produced instead. There was no corresponding heat deficit, >but there was also no large heat excess, which I find very baffling >if the excess gas is caused by excess heat. I surmise that some third >reaction -- a high energy reaction -- directly causes both the excess >hydrogen and the heat. There may be an alternative solution. If I am not mistaken, Mizuno bases the amount of hydrogen expected from electrolysis on the DC current consumed by the cell. However we know that the system contains multiple high frequency AC components. Surely then it follows that by shuttling back and forth (i.e. AC), any given electron may perform multiple electrolysis reactions. This would allow the actual electrolysis current "at the coal face" to be much higher than the DC current supplied to the cell, while at the same time the energy balance would remain at unity (within measurement error). Effectively the cell itself is reducing the voltage to the electrolysis voltage, and boosting the current to match. The inherent inductance and capacitance are forming a tank circuit which conserves energy, and effectively converts "high voltage;low current" into "low voltage;high current". If this concept is correct, then the maximum amount by which the hydrogen produced can exceed that expected from the original DC current is Vin/1.2 (if the cell runs cold) or Vin/1.48 (if it runs warm). Assuming the latter, we get for various values of Vin:- 80 V/ 1.48 V = 54 times. 100 V/ 1.48 V => 67 times. 350 V/ 1.48 V => 236 times. ...so a figure of 80 would not be all that surprising. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 1 21:03:40 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6243Bc0014639; Sat, 1 Jul 2006 21:03:12 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k62438Zi014570; Sat, 1 Jul 2006 21:03:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 21:03:08 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: ZPE Pumping and Waterfuel Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 14:03:05 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <410-22006602582650585 earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <410-22006602582650585 earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta05ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.55.100] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Sun, 2 Jul 2006 04:03:05 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k62434bM014355 Resent-Message-ID: <9FyOGC.A.ejD.7V0pEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69454 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Frederick Sparber's message of Sun, 25 Jun 2006 02:26:50 -0600: Hi, [snip] >Although the rough cut needs some serious rework, >the principle remains the same. >IOW, ZPE`can "pump" the Bohr orbit electron/s >to a higher orbit, and heat/compression can >collapse them to a lower orbit with the release of >energy. >At n = 3, (6.48E14 Hz) 12.08 eV photon energy can be given >off when the electron drops to the ground state orbit etc. ... and exactly what circumstances are required to encourage the ZPE to do this? (When it obviously normally doesn't). [snip] >Considering only the H atoms, each would have to >give up ~ 22.5 eV when dropped from the 2.43E-6 [snip] I note that 22.5 eV is less than 40.8 eV which is the energy released during first level hydrino formation, so formation of some hydrinos would do the trick. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 1 23:52:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k626qfdq024627; Sat, 1 Jul 2006 23:52:41 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k626qXmi024578; Sat, 1 Jul 2006 23:52:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 23:52:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <44A76CEE.6040901 usfamily.net> Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 01:51:26 -0500 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69455 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Puthoff responds Status: RO X-Status: I emailed Hal Puthoss the link to the ZPE Energy site which one of you Vortexians posted. He replied that it was interesting. --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 2 02:56:31 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k629u5Tg011075; Sun, 2 Jul 2006 02:56:06 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k629tujU010985; Sun, 2 Jul 2006 02:55:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 02:55:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=R4v/yYVz5G+iM7a61JW0/L/Qv5XLkmYuFa41ul3+9l+xYXrFeXOyxtIhdE2CZdEO; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200670295436954 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: tpsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "TP Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 03:54:36 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 4850d265c1c6f21f71639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940e9e4c74d26ef536648493dc33b08a12b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.149 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69456 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: String Fractals and Cold Fusion Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII FWIW. If Positrons and Electrons make up the Strings-String Circles-Disks "Fractals" that form Nuclei, it's not too difficult to see how 24 MeV or more given off as heat sans gamma rays or neutrons when Cold Fusion occurs. IOW, a proton or neutron (usually visualized as spheres) are made up of 548 or more positrons-electron "string fractals" plus neutrinos, the nuclei could go through a "settling in " arrangement to release the fusion energy rather than emitting the expected "hard sphere" collision products obtained in Hot Fusion reactions. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
FWIW.
 
If Positrons and Electrons make up the Strings-String Circles-Disks "Fractals"
that form Nuclei, it's not too difficult to see how 24 MeV or more given off
as heat sans gamma rays or neutrons when Cold Fusion occurs.
 
IOW, a proton or neutron (usually visualized as spheres) are made up of
548 or more positrons-electron "string fractals" plus neutrinos, the nuclei could go
through  a "settling in " arrangement to release the fusion energy rather than emitting
the expected "hard sphere" collision products obtained in Hot Fusion reactions.
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 2 05:07:21 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k62C71Tf016789; Sun, 2 Jul 2006 05:07:02 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k62C70A3016771; Sun, 2 Jul 2006 05:07:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 05:07:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-CVTV-Spamfilter: Scanned X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Virus-Scanned: by McAfee Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <000801c69dcf$ff9761e0$18027841 xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 07:06:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C69DA6.163657F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69457 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: [VO] O.T.: Sawdust for soap Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C69DA6.163657F0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0005_01C69DA6.163657F0" ------=_NextPart_001_0005_01C69DA6.163657F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankHowdy Vorts, Living out here in the "boonies" does have it's advantages. Take the = soap salesman ( politician) that came to town selling soap. Pretty = wrappers caught everybody's eye.. I bought a case of the stuff. Turned = out to be SAWDUST !.=20 Therein lies the difference in city boys and country boys.. No matter = how the salesman wraps the bar ya just ain't gonna get em country boys = to buy.=20 Now city folks are different.. Why I know a rich man in Houston got a = whole warehouse full of sawdust bars and he's still ready to buy some = more this year cuz it's election year. Ya ever try to take a bath using sawdust soap? Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0005_01C69DA6.163657F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Howdy Vorts,
 
Living out here in the "boonies" does have it's advantages. Take = the soap=20 salesman ( politician) that came to town selling soap. Pretty wrappers = caught=20 everybody's eye..  I bought a case of the stuff. Turned out to be = SAWDUST=20 !.
Therein lies the difference in city boys and country boys.. No = matter how=20 the salesman wraps the bar ya just ain't gonna get em country boys to = buy.=20
Now city folks are different..  Why I know a rich man in = Houston got a=20 whole warehouse full of sawdust bars and he's still ready to buy some = more this=20 year cuz it's election year.
 
Ya ever try to take a bath using sawdust soap?
 
Richard

 

------=_NextPart_001_0005_01C69DA6.163657F0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C69DA6.163657F0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000301c69dcf$ff04bed0$18027841 xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C69DA6.163657F0-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 2 06:03:43 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k62D3QJ8012742; Sun, 2 Jul 2006 06:03:27 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k62D3LFc012691; Sun, 2 Jul 2006 06:03:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 06:03:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=ajTUJaV7kc0LHDCXjDG+4rPMvUovVOSB7mDdg9GtiJhN/6We9UspT3sqe4KUssKE; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200670213357 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 07:03:05 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940c1d5e4ba593a9755239b1cdcb7bea821350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.224 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69458 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: O.T. Oceans of Oil Under Texas Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII According to a recent study, "there is an ocean of oil under Texas, but, there is a moratorium on pumping it for fear that the Loon Star State will sink, and everyone in it will drown in an ocean of Bullshit." ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
According to a recent study, "there is an ocean of
oil under Texas, but, there is a moratorium on pumping it
for fear that the Loon Star State will sink, and everyone in it
will drown in an ocean of Bullshit."
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 2 09:24:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k62GO6Zp025072; Sun, 2 Jul 2006 09:24:06 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k62GO3hm025023; Sun, 2 Jul 2006 09:24:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 09:24:03 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=RmsyaMPtTu6tXx7xtYeAuXkC7VlxMcL2z8ALjgAvVRMF7Oy646OAL0CGJd5gz9TlpT9hjXrpLsCdkeATlb+Eh7R8Fyf4VpZoXgTERe8I1jENXnRKf6Pz+UyGCvpTpzCHnn0XMFnSdilQN1vYGWtBhRe6SRGvPuhL6iQ253dD0ik= Message-ID: <357653710607020924m335e048cm9ba1c616909e34d9 mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 18:24:00 +0200 From: "David Jonsson" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [VO]: 300mS ball lightning In-Reply-To: <001501c68dc7$cd388700$73037841 xptower> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3253_29606117.1151857440336" References: <001501c68dc7$cd388700$73037841 xptower> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69459 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ------=_Part_3253_29606117.1151857440336 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Better here with movies http://www.ipp.mpg.de/ippcms/eng/presse/pi/05_06_pi.html David ------=_Part_3253_29606117.1151857440336 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Better here with movies
http://www.ipp.mpg.de/ippcms/eng/presse/pi/05_06_pi.html

David


------=_Part_3253_29606117.1151857440336-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 2 09:38:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k62Gc4Y1001458; Sun, 2 Jul 2006 09:38:05 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k62Gbxss001415; Sun, 2 Jul 2006 09:37:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 09:37:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=hoPdk12joFfgz12JArlcmzx89qZp8YstgHpyQA51PVw90u67fLXcgM2bwK2IJ1c02vXkw83EcJodgE3sWn4GrOrsoHGUqeqnNJOyqZpAm2fcw94RTuqD81zo0m4rQ7ANS8tUa1sTb8vEAFQV8FmYWdxZoXIDstlzaSUxE1Lj5dc= Message-ID: <357653710607020937gf484379g6b5b5e38232302c3 mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 18:37:55 +0200 From: "David Jonsson" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [VO]:Re: Is Spacetime a Superfluid In-Reply-To: <000e01c69c99$d38ab4d0$47037841 xptower> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3277_346489.1151858275367" References: <000e01c69c99$d38ab4d0$47037841 xptower> Resent-Message-ID: <7phNqC.A.-V.mZ_pEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69460 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_Part_3277_346489.1151858275367 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I would say space time is a super fluid since there is no viscosity in it. Mass could then be derived as deduced mass in this fluid. Maybe there is a small viscosity in it since there is a relation between mass and luminosity. Has anyone ever observed vortex or rotation motion in a superfluid? David ------=_Part_3277_346489.1151858275367 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I would say space time is a super fluid since there is no viscosity in it. Mass could then be derived as deduced mass in this fluid. Maybe there is a small viscosity in it since there is a relation between mass and luminosity.

Has anyone ever observed vortex or rotation motion in a superfluid?

David
------=_Part_3277_346489.1151858275367-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 2 15:32:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k62MWR87019644; Sun, 2 Jul 2006 15:32:28 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k62MWHhQ019558; Sun, 2 Jul 2006 15:32:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 15:32:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <003401c69e27$56543470$0600a8c0 nixlaptop> From: "Nick Palmer" To: References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060628162807.02c32d50 mail.newenergytimes.com> Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 23:31:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: <8XPuB.A.QxE.vlEqEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69461 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: 1989 UofU Press Conference Status: O X-Status: Hi Steve, Did you get any volunteers to transcribe the conference MP3's? Nick Palmer From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 2 16:26:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k62NQAr5009882; Sun, 2 Jul 2006 16:26:10 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k62NQ8vL009869; Sun, 2 Jul 2006 16:26:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 16:26:08 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-CVTV-Spamfilter: Scanned X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Virus-Scanned: by McAfee Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <001701c69e2e$dfe6ffe0$27027841 xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 18:25:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01C69E04.F68D9710" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69462 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: [VO];Re:: Oceans of Oil Under Texas Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C69E04.F68D9710 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0014_01C69E04.F68D9710" ------=_NextPart_001_0014_01C69E04.F68D9710 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankFred wrote.. According to a recent study, "there is an ocean of oil under Texas, but, there is a moratorium on pumping it for fear that the Loon Star State will sink, and everyone in it will drown in an ocean of Bullshit." Howdy Fred... As usual, us Texans are being misquoted. That is a vicious rumor being = circulated. The truth being the nation's largest newspaper and TV = channels have discovered they can make big bucks selling this BS faster = than it can be produced which has created a market shortage sufficent so = that we changed our cash crop from mary juana. Texans have a ready way to solve problems.. take for example.. horse = thieves and cattle rustlers.. there would be no state of New Mexico = without us running the outlaws across the border allowing New Mexico to = share with Louisana the dubious title of the most corrupt state in the = nation.. The term "wetback" originated way back when public spirited = citizens of the states began "exporting by gunbarrel " their more = talented poker players across the Sabine river into Texas. Later these = expert card sharps discovered politics was a way safer way to riches = than marked cards. Fortunately they now mostly reside in WashingtonDC. Don't ya just love Texan ? Be more greatful Fred. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0014_01C69E04.F68D9710 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Fred wrote..
 
According to a recent study, = "there is an=20 ocean of
oil under Texas, but, there = is a=20 moratorium on pumping it
for fear that the Loon Star = State will=20 sink, and everyone in it
will drown in an ocean = of=20 Bullshit."
 
Howdy Fred...
 
As usual, us Texans are being = misquoted. That is=20 a vicious rumor being circulated. The truth being the nation's largest = newspaper=20 and TV channels have discovered they can make big bucks selling this BS = faster=20 than it can be produced which has created a market shortage sufficent so = that we=20 changed our cash crop from mary juana.
 Texans have a ready way to solve = problems.. take for example.. horse thieves and cattle rustlers.. there = would be=20 no state of New Mexico without us running the outlaws across the border = allowing=20 New Mexico to share with Louisana the dubious title of the most corrupt = state in=20 the nation.. The term "wetback" originated way back when  public = spirited=20 citizens of the states began "exporting by gunbarrel " their more=20 talented poker players across the Sabine river into Texas. = Later=20 these expert card sharps  discovered politics was a way safer = way to=20 riches than marked cards. Fortunately  they now mostly reside in=20 WashingtonDC.
 
Don't ya just love Texan = ?
 
Be more greatful Fred.
 
Richard
 

 

------=_NextPart_001_0014_01C69E04.F68D9710-- ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C69E04.F68D9710 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <001201c69e2e$df5bfdf0$27027841 xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C69E04.F68D9710-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 2 17:24:19 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k630O2vM007223; Sun, 2 Jul 2006 17:24:07 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k630O1V9007185; Sun, 2 Jul 2006 17:24:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 17:24:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 20:23:57 -0400 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Bell, Bang and Entangle To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: <1ba93a1ba836.1ba8361ba93a ncf.ca> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 Patch 2 (built Jul 14 2004) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69463 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I think the results of such experiments are evidence of absolute time since you can't get more non-local than absolute time. Harry ----- Original Message ----- From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net Date: Friday, June 30, 2006 9:16 pm Subject: [Vo]: Re: Bell, Bang and Entangle > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robin van Spaandonk > > Actually I don't even believe that information is transferred, let > alone energy. > > <><><><><> > > That is the claim of the "standard quantum physics" proponent. > > Let's try this: > > Creation of an particle anti-particle pair results in a dual > vortex in > the BCE which is separated by distance by propagation . . . sort > of an > hour glass with the top part going right to Scully and left to > Mulder > with opposite rotations in the BEC. > > However, since the spin is anti-evident, the direction of the > (opposing) vortices are not defined until someone with a timecone > (worldline) observes them. Filters them, wrt to the present universe. > > However (again), the spin vortices of the BEC remain indeterminate > until the observer's timecone intersects with particle timecone > (observation). This could result in a non-local flip which > correlates > Mulder and Scully's observations. :-) > > Because the timecones of the particles are interconnected in 'yarn > space', the spin, once observed, determines the rotation of the > particle vortex. > > Because all possible universes exist (based on observer's > descisions - > and this requires explanation), but the observer is traveling a > single > path, his timecone defines the spin polarization in his spacetime. > (assuming Susskinds 10^500 + universes) > > Seems trivial, n'est-ce pas? > > Terry > > (not even wrong, I'm sure) > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 3 02:08:55 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6398V43010910; Mon, 3 Jul 2006 02:08:31 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6398TLE010869; Mon, 3 Jul 2006 02:08:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 02:08:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=FsaYpTrONh4x592G55SmbhXO9VDkSDhukrFWpSHNDZeaHflfA1oRkqLo4eul1QNc; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220067139812899 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: tpsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "TP Sparber" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 03:08:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 4850d265c1c6f21f71639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9407bec8393c85309041b207cfccc02d0ce350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.151 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69464 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: String Fractals and Cold Fusion Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII If one can work through this lucid treatment of how near c relativistic charged beams cancel the electrostatic field between particles it becomes evident that Positron-Electron "String Fractals" can stack like current loops or disks and build the Quarks that make up Protons and Neutronsand possibly a plethora of Baryons. Non-Relativistic Beams: http://www.fieldp.com/cpb/chap05.pdf Relativistic Beam Charge Cancellation: http://www.fieldp.com/cpb/chap06.pdf Agitation of the "Stacks" can effect release of energy as heat Without Fusion or Transmutation occurring. Or possibly temporary neutralization of the positive charge of the Deuteron to form a "Di-neutron", and/or the stripping of the neutrons from Deuterons which can be taken up by nearby atoms to effect transmutation. The transmutation of 55-Cs-133 into 59-Pr-141 for example: 4 D2 + 55-Cs-133 ----> 59-Pr-141 + 4 H2 Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
If one can work through this lucid treatment of
how near c relativistic charged beams cancel the
electrostatic field between particles it becomes
evident that Positron-Electron "String Fractals" can
stack like current loops or disks and build the
Quarks that make up Protons and  Neutronsand
possibly a plethora of Baryons.
 
Non-Relativistic Beams:
 
 
Relativistic Beam Charge Cancellation:
 
 
Agitation of the "Stacks" can effect release
of energy as heat Without Fusion or Transmutation
occurring.
Or possibly temporary neutralization of the positive charge
of the Deuteron to form a "Di-neutron", and/or the stripping
of the neutrons from Deuterons which can be taken up by nearby
atoms to effect transmutation.
The transmutation of 55-Cs-133 into 59-Pr-141
for example:
 
4 D2 + 55-Cs-133 ----> 59-Pr-141 + 4 H2
 
Fred
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 3 02:40:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k639e5FK030576; Mon, 3 Jul 2006 02:40:12 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k639So53023821; Mon, 3 Jul 2006 02:28:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 02:28:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=UyuqlN67bPWNflecfIuPk8AAqd8B7KEj21uake80yuZDPFm2zqd/BWtGtexerSV0; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200671392831561 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: tpsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "TP Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 03:28:31 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 4850d265c1c6f21f71639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940f0eaf1f84cec643d9aa0c5b14c639975350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.151 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69465 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: FW: Re: [Vo]: Re: String Fractals and Cold Fusion Status: O X-Status: Robin wrote: > > > > In reply to TP Sparber's message of Sun, 2 Jul 2006 03:54:36 > > -0600: > > Hi Fred, > > [snip] > > >through a "settling in " arrangement to release the fusion energy rather than emitting > > >the expected "hard sphere" collision products obtained in Hot Fusion reactions. > > [snip] > > "Settling in" also occurs after normal decay (alpha or beta, but > > usually more with the latter), and the result is gamma emission as > > the nucleus drops through a series of ever lower energy levels. > > > "Conventional Wisdom", Robin. Too many other possibilities > that haven't been measured under Cold Fusion conditions. > > I'm willing to bet that Randy Mills' "Hydrino" is in there > somewhere too. > IOW, you can "Compliment" Known Physics without > blatantly rewriting it. :-) > > Fred > > > > Regards, > > > > Robin van Spaandonk > > > > http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ > > > > Competition provides the motivation, > > Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 3 04:23:40 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k63BNUXa025633; Mon, 3 Jul 2006 04:23:30 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k63BNTw9025624; Mon, 3 Jul 2006 04:23:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 04:23:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=OcCvvdeVHQwelvIAin/j/p4qI6tQjvfFDj/qqcsXz6M2G8qOvH+S58gndRTSgA8jKHcdV6cnIwSKgMvrV2SZjmy+WM/VJj24TVyDEW6AArHhqThJif/JElCBrH3L4EE8Iap8NrkjC8OHkYnRc5MUfK3ZOt4j2y47ZIs9eWG1igg= Message-ID: Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 07:23:26 -0400 From: "john herman" To: vortex-l , "Kyle R. Mcallister" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69466 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: General and open question set Status: O X-Status: Dear Vo., NB: Many general questions I have posed have not even been responded to.... much less answered, hummm? (A) As a general and open question: My understanding is Quantum Physics, Quantum Electro Dynamics and other areas of Quantum Behavior are THEORY. Often based on Mathmatical Theory. Has this changed? Are there some new physical LAWS [this is different from theory} that are part of public domain?? (B) Frequently articles are posted and sometimes questions are asked along the lines of: [i] is-are a body of emprirical observation or observations or interpretations of obrservations? [ii] if terms of definition are employed, such as "dark" or cold" energy, current, voltage or other..... is it OK to ask for simple definitions of or for there terms.... [iii] Is Are there any body of these terms, definitions or terms or the like that one may go to to try to understand some terms, new, old or not recorded? [iv] Where do we go to to find out if we cannot find out in fairly standard collections such as McGraw-Hill or the like? [v] Can anyone, Vo or other suggest a beeter way to ask these simple but very important lines of question? Best, JH From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 3 04:27:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k63BQp4E027924; Mon, 3 Jul 2006 04:26:52 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k63BQnAX027906; Mon, 3 Jul 2006 04:26:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 04:26:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=GtoguB7Og77fAOqzjvsRDqqaQ06Hcp9bIK5E+SqJa6VxmAO8hlNeLQconiQx03QNvxnzdPsBmIL8jnEnEd7/sPWnv46Ps1qr3u3Sf2WTtUQ/tMEaSXBhxx+zCKJ6d6+3YCz+0NnqrEH5U1jiKwobkhUFopqE7/vQ2/++ksBEWtA= Message-ID: Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 07:26:47 -0400 From: "john herman" To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69467 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: WHAT is the response? what is the site Puthoff responds Status: O X-Status: Dear Vo., At a loss here..... what is-are the site or sites? What address? What is the response? Thank you, JH On 7/2/06, thomas malloy wrote: > I emailed Hal Puthoss the link to the ZPE Energy site which one of you > Vortexians posted. He replied that it was interesting. > > > --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 3 05:18:03 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k63CHoQL029429; Mon, 3 Jul 2006 05:17:51 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k63CHnW7029416; Mon, 3 Jul 2006 05:17:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 05:17:49 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-CVTV-Spamfilter: Scanned X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Virus-Scanned: by McAfee Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <001601c69e9a$a42a5df0$84027841 xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: [VO]:Re: General and open question set Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 07:17:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C69E70.BA723350"; type="multipart/alternative" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69468 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C69E70.BA723350 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0013_01C69E70.BA723350" ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C69E70.BA723350 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blankjohn wrote.. NB: Many general questions I have posed have not even been responded to.... much less answered, hummm? My understanding is Quantum Physics, Quantum Electro Dynamics and other areas of Quantum Behavior are THEORY. Often based on Mathmatical Theory. Has this changed? Are there some new physical LAWS [this is different from theory} that are part of public domain?? Howdy John, You need not know the question nor the answer. You must be skilled in = HOW to ask the question and how to give an answer. In the science world = it is no longer important to know anything except how to get funded or = know somebody that does.Organized groups of these people are described = as Universities. One of their finest products over the past 25 years has = been the advancement of the word " quantum". We can combine the word = with breakfast cereal, strawberries and bananas to create an entirely = new chemistry where milk is not required to wash it down. Combining the = word quantum with spagetti has enabled scientists to visualize " = strings' that may in the future be useful for clothslines when electric = power becomes obsolete. There is endless speculation as to the direction quantum may take. = Theoriticians called "Wall Street" have discovered a type of fountain = within the core of quantum which is loosely called the "money tree". = These forward thinking people have began to work within the physics = system to form networks that can mysteriously separate money from = unsuspecting sources. Texas A&M University just announced a evolutionary program of " instant = science culture" whereas they construct a huge cannon shaped object on = campus, load it with tightly bound bales of money and scatttershoot it = across the world toward anyone standing near a PhD. The amazing accuracy = of this cannon cannot be revealed due to the "proprietory" status of the = secrets. Any attempt to circumvent the system or "channel" these = resources into productive ends is useless. It is a proven fact = demonstrated by the most successful programs like the Tokamak and NASA = that quantum is the glue that holds the tiles onto the entire balloon. Design a better bicycle and you will own GM in 10 years.=20 Richard http://www.physics.umd.edu/ep/becker/becker.html http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/4017076.html ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C69E70.BA723350 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
john wrote..
 
NB:  Many general questions I have posed have not even been=20 responded
to.... much less answered,  hummm?

My understanding is Quantum Physics, Quantum Electro Dynamics = and
other=20 areas of Quantum Behavior are THEORY.   Often based = on
Mathmatical=20 Theory.

     Has this changed?   = Are there=20 some new physical LAWS [this is
different from theory}  that are = part of=20 public domain??

Howdy John,

You need not know the question nor the answer. You must be skilled in = HOW to=20 ask the question and how to give an answer. In the science world it is = no longer=20 important to know anything except how to get funded or know somebody = that=20 does.Organized groups of these people are described as Universities. One = of=20 their finest products over the past 25 years has been the advancement of = the=20 word " quantum". We can combine the word with breakfast cereal, = strawberries and=20 bananas to create an entirely new chemistry where milk is not required = to wash=20 it down. Combining the word quantum with spagetti has enabled scientists = to=20 visualize " strings' that may in the future be useful for clothslines = when=20 electric power becomes obsolete.

There is endless speculation as to the direction quantum may take.=20 Theoriticians called "Wall Street" have discovered a type of fountain = within the=20 core of quantum which is loosely called the "money tree". These forward = thinking=20 people have began to work within the physics system to form networks = that can=20 mysteriously separate money from unsuspecting sources.

Texas A&M University just announced a evolutionary program of " = instant=20 science culture" whereas they construct a huge cannon shaped object on = campus,=20 load it with tightly bound bales of money and scatttershoot it across = the world=20 toward anyone standing near a PhD. The amazing accuracy of this cannon = cannot be=20 revealed due to the "proprietory" status of the secrets. Any attempt to=20 circumvent the system or "channel" these resources into=20 productive ends  is useless. It is a proven fact demonstrated = by the=20 most successful programs like the Tokamak and NASA that quantum  is = the=20 glue that holds the tiles onto the entire balloon.

Design a better bicycle and you will own GM in = 10 years. 

Richard

http://www.physics.umd.edu/ep/= becker/becker.html
ht= tp://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/4017076.html
 
 
------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C69E70.BA723350-- ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C69E70.BA723350 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <001101c69e9a$a31f0870$84027841 xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C69E70.BA723350-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 3 11:18:24 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k63I1fwJ021841; Mon, 3 Jul 2006 11:01:42 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k63I1Y5j021774; Mon, 3 Jul 2006 11:01:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 11:01:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060703110710.02a6ace0 mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 11:07:26 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: 1989 UofU Press Conference In-Reply-To: <003401c69e27$56543470$0600a8c0 nixlaptop> References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060628162807.02c32d50 mail.newenergytimes.com> <003401c69e27$56543470$0600a8c0 nixlaptop> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69469 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: not yet... At 03:31 PM 7/2/2006, you wrote: >Hi Steve, > Did you get any volunteers to transcribe the conference MP3's? > >Nick Palmer > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 3 14:59:34 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k63LxKpq003052; Mon, 3 Jul 2006 14:59:20 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k63LxIKu003037; Mon, 3 Jul 2006 14:59:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 14:59:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <001b01c69eeb$ebcdbcf0$0600a8c0 nixlaptop> From: "Nick Palmer" To: References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060628162807.02c32d50 mail.newenergytimes.com> <003401c69e27$56543470$0600a8c0@nixlaptop> <6.2.0.14.2.20060703110710.02a6ace0@mail.newenergytimes.com> Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: 1989 UofU Press Conference Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 22:59:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69470 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: OK, I'll have a crack at it - Do you want all the umms and errs transcribed as well? Nick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 3 15:28:21 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k63MS9l5027327; Mon, 3 Jul 2006 15:28:10 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k63MS8am027314; Mon, 3 Jul 2006 15:28:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 15:28:08 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=VuPkH8W0kGYpVQQZMaEJv+QUEsYm/Rw8MS0+e7qmdop5uzAXwRiTtHPzNFVJytIs; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006713222754631 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: tpsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "TP Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: String Fractals and Cold Fusion Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 16:27:54 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 4850d265c1c6f21f71639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94055176d97adab44e43de7ced61e95dc99350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.138 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69471 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk > > I > Hi Fred, > [snip] > >The transmutation of 55-Cs-133 into 59-Pr-141 > >for example: > > > >4 D2 + 55-Cs-133 ----> 59-Pr-141 + 4 H2 > > > >Fred > > The difference in mass between 133 and 141 is 8. The difference in > charge between 55 and 59 is 4. Your equation doesn't balance (you > have stripped all the protons out of the D, and left none for the > charge increase). The actual difference between the starting and > ending atoms is exactly 2 He4 atoms, or 2 D2 molecules. You can't > split any of the D atoms, because you need a proton to neutron > ratio of 1:1. > Yep. I knew you would jump on it. I was distracted by other problems. Just take the numbers from in front of D2 and H2. AFAIK, no one has looked for (or counted) H or H2 after a CF run. Fred > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ > > Competition provides the motivation, > Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 3 15:46:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k63MkNAI006918; Mon, 3 Jul 2006 15:46:24 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k63MkLfH006886; Mon, 3 Jul 2006 15:46:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 15:46:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060703154845.029f9870 mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 15:52:18 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: 1989 UofU Press Conference In-Reply-To: <001b01c69eeb$ebcdbcf0$0600a8c0 nixlaptop> References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060628162807.02c32d50 mail.newenergytimes.com> <003401c69e27$56543470$0600a8c0 nixlaptop> <6.2.0.14.2.20060703110710.02a6ace0 mail.newenergytimes.com> <001b01c69eeb$ebcdbcf0$0600a8c0 nixlaptop> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69472 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ummm, well, how 'bout we pass on that. Thanks Nick! FYI, Jed previously mentioned here that he had found the audio depressing. As Jed and I often have our polarities, I had found the audio quite refreshing, particularly on the fact that the whole press conference has been heretofore reported as making grandiose claims of revolutionizing world energy. IMO, what Peterson et al said was nearly the opposite. They all seemed extremely reserved to me. There are some extremely prescient things said in these recordings. S At 02:59 PM 7/3/2006, you wrote: >OK, I'll have a crack at it - Do you want all the umms and errs >transcribed as well? > >Nick > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 3 21:00:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k64402XE029153; Mon, 3 Jul 2006 21:00:02 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k643xxTN029111; Mon, 3 Jul 2006 20:59:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 20:59:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <44A9E79F.4050704 usfamily.net> Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 22:59:27 -0500 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: WHAT is the response? what is the site Puthoff responds References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69473 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: john herman wrote: > Dear Vo., > > > At a loss here..... what is-are the site or sites? What address? > What is the response? > > Thank you, > > JH > > On 7/2/06, thomas malloy wrote: > >> I emailed Hal Puthoss the link to the ZPE Energy site which one of you >> Vortexians posted. He replied that it was interesting. >> >> > http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1946 > --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 4 12:10:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k64JAbV2011146; Tue, 4 Jul 2006 12:10:38 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k64JALmb010932; Tue, 4 Jul 2006 12:10:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 12:10:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,205,1149480000"; d="scan'208"; a="538105669:sNHT27787646" Message-ID: <8942542.1152040217778.JavaMail.root fepweb04> Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 12:10:17 -0700 From: OrionWorks To: vortex-l MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Sensitivity: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k64JAIFc010897 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69474 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Status: O X-Status: Ok, I admit it. This is Forth'o'July essay: I suspect there may be a few closet Vorts (like me) who occasionally monitor of the activities of Mike Brady, an individual who claims to have designed and developed a magnetic motor prototype that is ready for prime time viewing. For those who might be curious you can find a list of reviews pertaining to the saga of Brady's claims out at Pure Energy Systems News. See: http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/Perendev/MagneticMotor/index.html or http://tinyurl.com/gxuj8 ...and also at the "Latest News" section. See: http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Perendev_Power_Developments_Pty_(Ltd) or http://tinyurl.com/px8rd What prompted me to add my two cents here on the day we North Americans of the United States celebrate the Forth'o'July was recent news that Brady cancelled a public event scheduled for the 7th of July. Brady was going to perform a public demonstration of what I presume would be his latest incarnation of a fuel-less magnetic motor. See Perendev (http://perendev-power.com/) Web site's "Special Event" link, http://perendev-power.com/Page45.html ...where you will read that - quote: "Due to the poor response we will have to cancel the event on the 7th of July 2006, we require at least 280 persons to attend, at this time we have only 86 confirmed bookings. We apologize for any inconvenience." Private viewing can be arranged for persons wishing to see the motor and generator in operation." - Unquote Apparently, Mr. Brady required 280 individuals so sign up in order to go ahead with his public demonstration. Unfortunately, only 86 did. Apparently, 86 willing individuals just wasn't enough for Brady to go through with a world shattering demonstration of a device that allegedly would have far reaching consequences if it could be both verified and legitimatized in the eyes of the public. Meanwhile, individuals who wish to book a private viewing of Brady's device are invited to sign up - FOR INDIVIDUAL APPOINTMENTS. Just contact him at his web site. Ok. Let me see if I got this straight. Mr. Brady is more than happy to continue to spend an enormous amount of his limited personal energy in arranging "private" demonstrations. But 89 confirmed bookings wasn't enough for Brady to go ahead with a planned "public" showing which he had been advertising at his web site for months? There remains an irrational and perhaps foolish part of me that continues to hope beyond any normal sense of reality that Mr. Brady has constructed a genuine fuel-less magnetic motor, a device that allegedly is ready to be revealed to the public. It is times like this where I sometimes wish I possessed a more provincial perspective on these controversial OU matters, a view that is perhaps more in line with the distinguished Dr. Zimmerman, an individual who creates a noticeably large skeptical foot print over at the Hydrino Discussion group. If I possessed Dr. Zimmerman's slant on these matters I suspect it would make it so much easier for me to dismiss all those weird OU claims, such as those coming from Mr. Brady's web site, as nothing more than the ramblings of self-deluded "inventor", or worse, another snake-oil salesman hard at work in his attempts to fleece a gullible public of their hard earned dollars. But alas, the perspective I'm left to personally endure is one that is just as unpleasant, where I'm forced to conclude that there are few who can surpass Brady's ability to stymie the alleged legitimacy of his own claimed achievements through his own obfuscations, backtracking, incessant deflections and excuses. It is no wonder few who may continue, beyond their better judgment, to remain sympathetic can afford to take his claims seriously anymore, this despite the fact that many supporters and backers, I gather, have bent over backwards to give him the benefit of the doubt. If OU devices similar to the kind that Brady claims to have created eventually DO manage to make it out of the starting line and into the frenzied global market, I suspect history is likely to record the unflattering fact this underappreciated struggle had been achieved IN SPITE of Brady's best efforts. And, oh yes, one last nit-picky thing I feel compelled to comment on. At Brady's home page (http://perendev-power.com/) you will see a link to "The Art of Rob & Jane Kearney". As the link states it takes you to works of art. It is my assumption that the two advertised artists, Rob & Jane Kearney, are somehow related to Mr. Brady either by blood or by law. IMHO, the art displayed (which includes motorcycles, Native Americans, wildlife, and a number of female nudes), is pretty decent and well crafted. Never the less, I have to ask myself: What in the world is a link displaying art work doing on the front page of web site that is trying to convince an already jaded audience of the legitimacy of free-energy devices? Is it possibly a link to a fundraiser campaign for the Bardy's Perendev web site? Not that I can see. The link looks more like it was appended to the Perendev home page as any family (or in-law) member might do as a supportive gesture, a favor to help expose the talents of family members. Now don't get me wrong. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm an artist myself, and I DO advertise my artwork at my own web site at www.OrionWorks as well as at a commercial on-line establishment called www.zazzle.com/orionworks. OTOH, if I had in my possession innovative designs of controversial free energy devices, I would not attempt to distract an already skeptical audience with titillating artwork of tastefully executed nudes where some of the "intimate" subject material borders on tentative explorations of lesbianism - and AGAIN don't get me wrong, not that I have anything against that all-too-human form of expression either! There's a time and place for everything. That translates to setting up a separate web site for the aesthetic pursuits of the nude figure, and all the trimmings that go along with that avenue of human expression. But getting back to the subject of "free energy": Fortunately there remain, hopefully, a handful fledgling enterprises pursuing R&D in magnetism with the ultimate goal of extracting "free" energy for the masses. I would imagine that these enterprises are doing their best to harness on a macro scale hints of suspected asymmetries detected in magnetic forces. Mark Goldes', Chairman & CEO of Magnetic Power Inc., obviously comes to mind. I suspect such R&D endeavors are not easy under current economic conditions and political climates. It's frustrating for me for all I feel I can do is wish organizations like MPI continued safe passages through the treacherous oceans where creatures like the POTSI (Priesthood Of The Scientific Inquisition) lie hungrily in wait for easy prey to pick off, and where illusive SAI (Skittish Angel Investors) nervously dart in and out of our vanishing coral reefs. In the meantime, bitta bang! Batta Boom! I'm outta here! Time to experience the open doors. Time to gorge myself on burnt brats, corn chips, and ice-cooled beers at our neighbor's barbeque bash. And to the rest of you eccentric Vorts, a happy Forth'o'July no matter what flag you have sworn your allegiance to. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 4 12:16:09 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k64JFosn014623; Tue, 4 Jul 2006 12:15:50 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k64JFlAJ014596; Tue, 4 Jul 2006 12:15:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 12:15:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-IronPort-AV: i="4.06,205,1149480000"; d="scan'208"; a="253720363:sNHT21698940" Message-ID: <15854007.1152040543876.JavaMail.root fepweb04> Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 12:15:43 -0700 From: OrionWorks To: vortex-l MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Sensitivity: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <_TzYU.A.7jD.j5rqEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69475 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Follow-up on essay Status: O X-Status: I don't know why it happened but Vortex cutt off the subject line. The subject line should have stated: "The Eccentricities of Mike Brady, the continuing saga" Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 4 15:04:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k64M4jrN012009; Tue, 4 Jul 2006 15:04:45 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k64M4hFY011995; Tue, 4 Jul 2006 15:04:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 15:04:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: "Anthony" To: Subject: RE: [Vo]: Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 17:04:31 -0500 Message-ID: <000701c69fb5$d40174c0$0601a8c0 STUFFMARTUSA2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <8942542.1152040217778.JavaMail.root fepweb04> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <61jhT.A.X7C.7XuqEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69476 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, New to the group. I just became interested and aware, of the Hilsch Vortex tube. Glad to see an active group, dedicated to discussion of this and other energy devices. Regarding the Vortex tube, does anyone here have a working model of one? Did you buy it or did you make it? And what sorts of temperatures are you getting from the cold and hot sides? And what are you using to supply the compressed air? Has anyone ever thought about using a bicycle pump to give it short bursts of compressed air? If so, what were your results? If not, why didn't it work? But one more thing about the Perendev magnetic motor... Really, it sounds do-able. I watched the video of it and it seemed to behave in a way consistent with how I've always been aware magnets behave. Has anyone tried to replicate the Perendev magnetic motor? Thanks!! Anthony From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 4 18:10:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k651A6Ok005125; Tue, 4 Jul 2006 18:10:06 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6519wvd004990; Tue, 4 Jul 2006 18:09:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 18:09:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-CVTV-Spamfilter: Scanned X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Virus-Scanned: by McAfee Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <001001c69fcf$49ec7e00$f5027841 xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: [VO]: Re: Hilsch Vortex tube Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 20:06:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C69FA5.607D9160"; type="multipart/alternative" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69477 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C69FA5.607D9160 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000D_01C69FA5.607D9160" ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C69FA5.607D9160 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankAnthony wrote.. New to the group. I just became interested and aware, of the Hilsch Vortex tube. Glad to see an active group, dedicated to discussion of this and other energy devices. Regarding the Vortex tube, does anyone here have a working model of one? Did you buy it or did you make it? And what sorts of temperatures are you getting from the cold and hot sides?=20 Howdy Anthony, welcome aboard. Here is a link to the subject. Commercial applications = of the tube are many. http://www.southstreet.freeserve.co.uk/rhvtmatl/index.htm Richard ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C69FA5.607D9160 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Anthony wrote..

New to the group.  I just became interested and aware, of the=20 Hilsch
Vortex tube.  Glad to see an active group, dedicated to=20 discussion of
this and other energy devices.

Regarding the = Vortex=20 tube, does anyone here have a working model of one?
Did you buy it or = did you=20 make it?  And what sorts of temperatures are
you getting from = the cold=20 and hot sides? 

 

Howdy Anthony,

 welcome aboard. Here is a link to the subject. Commercial = applications=20 of the tube are many.

 http:/= /www.southstreet.freeserve.co.uk/rhvtmatl/index.htm

Richard

------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C69FA5.607D9160-- ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C69FA5.607D9160 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000b01c69fcf$4945ddc0$f5027841 xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C69FA5.607D9160-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 4 18:29:50 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k651TXk9016396; Tue, 4 Jul 2006 18:29:34 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k651TURh016354; Tue, 4 Jul 2006 18:29:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 18:29:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: "Anthony" To: Subject: RE: [VO]: Re: Hilsch Vortex tube Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 20:29:18 -0500 Message-ID: <001001c69fd2$6f594df0$0601a8c0 STUFFMARTUSA2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01C69FA8.868345F0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <001001c69fcf$49ec7e00$f5027841 xptower> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69478 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C69FA8.868345F0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0012_01C69FA8.868345F0" ------=_NextPart_001_0012_01C69FA8.868345F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Richard! I saw this last night. Anthony Howdy Anthony, welcome aboard. Here is a link to the subject. Commercial applications of the tube are many. http://www.southstreet.freeserve.co.uk/rhvtmatl/index.htm Richard -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/361 - Release Date: 6/11/2006 ------=_NextPart_001_0012_01C69FA8.868345F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Thanks Richard!
I saw this last night.  =
 
Anthony

 

Howdy Anthony,

 welcome aboard. Here is a link to the subject. Commercial=20 applications of the tube are many.

 http:/= /www.southstreet.freeserve.co.uk/rhvtmatl/index.htm

Richard


--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG = Free=20 Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/361 - Release = Date:=20 6/11/2006

------=_NextPart_001_0012_01C69FA8.868345F0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C69FA8.868345F0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <437452801 05072006-2CAD> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C69FA8.868345F0-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 4 18:39:31 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k651dCeK023152; Tue, 4 Jul 2006 18:39:13 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k651dAiX023122; Tue, 4 Jul 2006 18:39:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 18:39:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-CVTV-Spamfilter: Scanned X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Virus-Scanned: by McAfee Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <000c01c69fd3$c9facad0$f5027841 xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: [VO]: Internet monitoring Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 20:38:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C69FA9.E0A16200"; type="multipart/alternative" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69479 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C69FA9.E0A16200 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0009_01C69FA9.E0A16200" ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C69FA9.E0A16200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankHowdy Vorts, Access to the internet is perhaps the last vestige of freedom of total = freedom of expression we have in the world. As this freedom is eroded = the risk of pseudo-news increases. The report states China is 2nd to the = US in access to the web..=20 Not to be discouraged, the hackers of the world by their tactics must = drive the security people nuts with their creativity. As a [art of the new battle between censorship and freedom , likely an = entire "new language' will emerge to counteract the censorship.Forms of = this new language are already present in spam ads. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13681931/ Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C69FA9.E0A16200 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Howdy Vorts,
 
Access to the internet is perhaps the last vestige of freedom of = total=20 freedom of expression we have in the world. As this freedom is eroded = the risk=20 of pseudo-news increases. The report states China is 2nd to the US in = access to=20 the web.. 
Not to be discouraged, the hackers of the world by their tactics = must drive=20 the security people nuts with their creativity.
As a [art of the new battle between censorship and freedom , likely = an=20 entire "new language' will emerge to counteract the censorship.Forms of = this new=20 language are already present in spam ads.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/i= d/13681931/

Richard

------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C69FA9.E0A16200-- ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C69FA9.E0A16200 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000701c69fd3$c972d620$f5027841 xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C69FA9.E0A16200-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 4 18:54:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k651scT3032337; Tue, 4 Jul 2006 18:54:39 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k651sa1U032312; Tue, 4 Jul 2006 18:54:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 18:54:36 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: "Anthony" To: Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 20:54:25 -0500 Message-ID: <001c01c69fd5$f1bfd810$0601a8c0 STUFFMARTUSA2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001D_01C69FAC.08E9D010" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Resent-Message-ID: <7SFgVD.A.v4H.cvxqEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69480 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Perendev Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C69FAC.08E9D010 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001E_01C69FAC.08E9D010" ------=_NextPart_001_001E_01C69FAC.08E9D010 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I suppose it's okay to discuss the Perendev on this list as well? I was just watching a video I found on wikipedia... http://stream.osen.org/aag/Perendev-Bedini-340kbps.wmv and I think that they were trying to reproduce the perendev.. but apparently were not very successful even though the device is very well built. What did they do wrong? Can anyone tell from the video or do you know personally about it? Thanks! Anthony ------=_NextPart_001_001E_01C69FAC.08E9D010 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
I suppose it's okay to discuss the = Perendev=20 on this list as well? 
 
I was just watching a video I = found on=20 wikipedia...
http://st= ream.osen.org/aag/Perendev-Bedini-340kbps.wmv
 
and I think that they were trying = to=20 reproduce the perendev.. but apparently were not very successful even = though the=20 device is very well built.  What did they do wrong?  Can = anyone tell=20 from the video or do you know personally about it?
 
Thanks!
Anthony
------=_NextPart_001_001E_01C69FAC.08E9D010-- ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C69FAC.08E9D010 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <750525101 05072006-2CB4> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C69FAC.08E9D010-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 5 00:42:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k657gBc2021278; Wed, 5 Jul 2006 00:42:11 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k657g63d021225; Wed, 5 Jul 2006 00:42:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 00:42:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060705074158857.D1603B400094 mwinf3013.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060705074159.009c9c40 pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 08:41:59 +0100 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Grimer Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69481 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Fears over Britain's nuclear plants Status: O X-Status: Revelations of safety concerns at Britain's AGR power stations come at a crucial time for the nuclear industry, with results of the government's energy review due in the next fortnight. ============================================= http://www.guardian.co.uk/nuclear/article/0,, 1812795,00.html ============================================= Government nuclear inspectors have raised serious questions over the safety of Britain's ageing atomic power stations, some of which have developed major cracks in their reactor cores, documents reveal today. The safety assessments, obtained under Freedom of Information legislation, show the Nuclear Safety Directorate (NSD) has issued warnings over the deterioration of reactor cores at Hinkley Point B in Somerset and other British nuclear plants. The directorate also criticises British Energy, which operates 13 advanced gas- cooled nuclear reactors including Hinkley. According to the papers, the company does not know the extent of the damage to the reactor cores, cannot monitor their deterioration and does not fully understand why cracking has occurred. They reveal that in June last year, the NSD said it was faced with "significant regulatory issues ... for all operating AGR reactors". The NSD's most recent safety assessment of Hinkley, completed in April, warns that its continued operation is likely to increase the risk of an accident. While the NSD says it does not believe that there is any immediate radiation danger to the public, it says there is a possibility of serious faults developing that would force the long term or permanent closure of other nuclear plants of the same design. "While I do not believe that a large release [of radiation] is a likely scenario, some lesser event ... is, I believe, inevitable at some stage if a vigilant precautionary approach is not adopted. There is an an increased likelihood of increased risk should we agree to continued operation," says the inspector. The documents show the NSD wants more frequent and more probing inspections of the reactor cores at all Britain's AGR plants. These inspections require the reactors to be shut down for weeks. The premature closing of any nuclear power plant could throw Britain's electricity supplies into chaos. Closure of Hinkley Point would be likely to lead to closure of at least three other nuclear stations built at the same time, which are also known to be suffering from cracks in their cores. Cracks in the graphite brick cores of ageing reactors have been observed for some time but until now there has been little public knowledge of the extent of the problem. British Energy warned in 2004 that its Hinkley Point B, Hunterston B, Heysham 2 and Torness plants might not be able to be extend their 30-year lives because of cracked bricks, but it gave few details of the extent of the problem. British Energy is keen to extend the life of its AGR reactors but the papers, obtained by Greenpeace via Stop Hinkley, a local nuclear watchdog group, suggest that unless British Energy improves safety checks, the plants might have to be closed. The revelations come at a critical point, with the government's energy review expected to be published in the next two weeks and both Tony Blair and Gordon Brown having indicated that a new generation of nuclear power is needed. Yesterday the prime minister told the Commons liaison committee that he had altered his position in favour of nuclear power since the last white paper on energy policy in 2003. "I'll be totally honest with you, I've changed my mind," he said. However, John Large, an independent nuclear engineer who has advised the government and who reviewed the FoI papers for Greenpeace yesterday said it was "gambling with public safety" to allow Hinkley Point to continue operating. Calling for other AGR stations to be closed, he said: "The reactors should be immediately shut down and remain so until a robust nuclear safety case free of uncertainties has been established". He accused the NSD of being reluctant to call for the closure of Hinkley Point because of the Mr Blair's stated intention to review nuclear power. "What nuclear installations inspector is going to close a plant down at such a politically critical time?", he asked. In the papers from June 2005, an inspector concludes of Britain's AGR power stations: "I judge that there is significant uncertainty in the likelihood and consequences for the core safety functionality posed by ... core damage. The assessor needs to assume worst case consequences of ... core damage unless the licensee is able to provide robust arguments." In a 2004 assessment, the inspector complains about the "lack of clarity" by British Energy, "continued uncertainty" in the prediction of behaviour in reactor cores, and the "lack of progress" made by British Energy in addressing issues in all AGR reactors. British Energy said yesterday it had provided new evidence to the NSD. "If the health and safety executive [the government body that oversees the NSD] were not confident in the safety of the reactor cores we would not allow the reactors to operate. The assessment report was part of the ongoing regulatory process ... The Nuclear Safety Directorate is monitoring closely British Energy's work on graphite and, where necessary, is influencing the scope and extent of the reactor core inspections that the company carries out. "British Energy has also been working on methods to monitor the cores whilst the reactors are in service. This will provide added re-assurance on the condition of the cores." Stephen Tindale , executive director of Greenpeace said: "These documents show the incompetence of the government and British Energy who have known about these cracks yet have refused to do anything about it." From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 5 05:39:06 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k65CV92G022922; Wed, 5 Jul 2006 05:31:09 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k65CUXpN022558; Wed, 5 Jul 2006 05:30:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 05:30:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 08:30:19 -0400 Message-Id: <8C86E45E9703CD5-1B80-1579A mblkn-m17.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <001c01c69fd5$f1bfd810$0601a8c0 STUFFMARTUSA2> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <001c01c69fd5$f1bfd810$0601a8c0 STUFFMARTUSA2> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Subject: Re: [Vo]: Perendev Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.135 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <830oqB.A.VgF.nD7qEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69482 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Anthony What did they do wrong? <><><><><> Possibly, nothing. Brady has been promising delivery for years. However, did you notice the clicking sound as the rotor turned? It sounds like there is movement of the magnets in their channels. This would reduce efficiency of the motor. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 5 05:48:19 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k65Clo62002797; Wed, 5 Jul 2006 05:47:51 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k65CllFV002743; Wed, 5 Jul 2006 05:47:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 05:47:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 08:47:39 -0400 Message-Id: <8C86E48555E8C92-1B80-15828 mblkn-m17.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <8C869E15FF247BB-1C38-8CC2 mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> <8C86AC3151DDE2B-1FC4-C2A3@mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.135 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69483 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Bell, Bang and Entangle Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Robin van Spaandonk All the balls in the box are connected in pairs, one blue ball connected to one red ball. <><><><><> But John Bell has stated and subsequent experiments prove that such is not reality. The balls are not correlated prior to measurement, their relationship is known; but, the color of neither is determinate. Another example: A beam splitter allows a photon to travel one of two paths. As long as the observer does not know the path taken by the photon, an interference pattern results when the paths converge. However, if you place a detector in one path, then interference pattern goes away due to the known path. This is true regardless of the distance between the splitter, the detector and the point of convergence. Bizarre! Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 5 06:58:03 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k65Dvm7i012910; Wed, 5 Jul 2006 06:57:48 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k65DviiB012836; Wed, 5 Jul 2006 06:57:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 06:57:44 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060705095502.011f13f8 mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 09:57:24 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: 1989 UofU Press Conference In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20060703154845.029f9870 mail.newenergytimes.com > References: <6.2.0.14.2.20060628162807.02c32d50 mail.newenergytimes.com> <003401c69e27$56543470$0600a8c0 nixlaptop> <6.2.0.14.2.20060703110710.02a6ace0 mail.newenergytimes.com> <001b01c69eeb$ebcdbcf0$0600a8c0 nixlaptop> <6.2.0.14.2.20060703154845.029f9870 mail.newenergytimes.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69484 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Steven Krivit wrote: >FYI, Jed previously mentioned here that he had found the audio >depressing. As Jed and I often have our polarities, I had found the >audio quite refreshing, particularly on the fact that the whole >press conference has been heretofore reported as making grandiose >claims of revolutionizing world energy. I agree. The people at the press conference, including the university officials, did a fine job. They were prudent and understated. The part I find depressing is the aftermath, and history's might-have-beens. This is reviewing papers published by Fleischmann et al. when they were working at Toyota. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 5 11:06:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k65I62lW020298; Wed, 5 Jul 2006 11:06:03 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k65I5xYB020266; Wed, 5 Jul 2006 11:05:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 11:05:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 11:00:57 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Hilsch Vortex tube Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69485 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > BlankAnthony wrote.. > New to the group. I just became interested and aware, of the Hilsch > Vortex tube. Glad to see an active group, dedicated to discussion of > this and other energy devices. Here are exerpts from Silverman's book "And Yet It Moves", with a bit of info about the "whistle" physics in the Hilsch tube: http://amasci.com/wirbel.txt (((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 425-222-5066 unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 5 13:57:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k65KvAwR000930; Wed, 5 Jul 2006 13:57:10 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k65Kv4Ed000872; Wed, 5 Jul 2006 13:57:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 13:57:03 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 16:56:55 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net Message-Id: <8C86E8CAEC60D42-120C-1AA83 mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.133 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69486 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Tiny Bubbles are Langmuir Sheaths Status: O X-Status: http://thunderbolts.info/tpod/2006/arch06/060704fizzybubbles.htm Stratified, dissimilar plasmas whose change in veliocity appears as a large temperature. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 5 15:27:14 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k65MQhgF006770; Wed, 5 Jul 2006 15:26:43 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k65MQYqQ006646; Wed, 5 Jul 2006 15:26:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 15:26:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Bell, Bang and Entangle Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 08:26:28 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <8C869E15FF247BB-1C38-8CC2 mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> <8C86AC3151DDE2B-1FC4-C2A3@mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> <8C86E48555E8C92-1B80-15828@mblkn-m17.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C86E48555E8C92-1B80-15828 mblkn-m17.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta05sl.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.53.201] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Wed, 5 Jul 2006 22:26:28 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k65MQSIj006562 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69487 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to hohlrauml6d netscape.net's message of Wed, 05 Jul 2006 08:47:39 -0400: Hi, [snip] >All the balls in the box are connected >in pairs, one blue ball connected to one red ball. > ><><><><><> > >But John Bell has stated and subsequent experiments prove that such is >not reality. The balls are not correlated prior to measurement, their >relationship is known; but, the color of neither is determinate. ...and exactly how does one know that the color is indeterminate if no measurement has been done, ie if one doesn't know (measurement is the process of acquiring knowledge)? IOW what you are saying is that one knows what one doesn't know. It's a clear contradiction. My point of view is that the color *is* determined, even though one is ignorant of it. (By analogy a tree falling in the forest still makes a noise, whether or not anyone is there to hear it). > >Another example: > >A beam splitter allows a photon to travel one of two paths. As long as >the observer does not know the path taken by the photon, an >interference pattern results when the paths converge. However, if you >place a detector in one path, then interference pattern goes away due >to the known path. No, the pattern goes away because the photons in one path are stopped by the detector (otherwise the detector wouldn't be detecting anything). It has nothing to do with what the experimenter knows. You can achieve exactly the same result by blocking one path with your finger. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 5 16:39:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k65Ncp7b029622; Wed, 5 Jul 2006 16:38:51 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k65NcmH6029593; Wed, 5 Jul 2006 16:38:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 16:38:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 19:38:35 -0400 Message-Id: <8C86EA3446955CD-241C-1B892 mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <8C869E15FF247BB-1C38-8CC2 mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> <8C86AC3151DDE2B-1FC4-C2A3@mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> <8C86E48555E8C92-1B80-15828@mblkn-m17.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.136 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <6P13w.A.LOH.I2ErEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69488 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Bell, Bang and Entangle Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Robin van Spaandonk RS: ...and exactly how does one know that the color is indeterminate if no measurement has been done, TB: I understand your position. Intuitively, I agree with you with great glee. It is identical to Einstein, Podolsky and Rosen. However, the data shows that the Bell Inequalities exist. Here's a good explanation: http://www.ncsu.edu/felder-public/kenny/papers/bell.html RS: No, the pattern goes away because the photons in one path are stopped by the detector (otherwise the detector wouldn't be detecting anything). TB: That is the simple answer; but, it does not jive with current SQM experiments. In this case, we are speaking of *single* photon interference patterns. They create interference patterns because of Feynman's "sum of histories" concept. The interference pattern is a result of the probabilites that the photon can follow either path with a certain probability. When the photon path is known, the photon does not go away. The photon is detected at the convergence point; however, it is detected as a particle. It is not stopped at the detector. Bohm offers an interesting explanation by separating the particle from the probability wave function. But Ockham's razor rules! Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 5 16:53:18 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k65Nr4uR009265; Wed, 5 Jul 2006 16:53:05 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k65Nr3wN009238; Wed, 5 Jul 2006 16:53:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 16:53:02 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 19:52:58 -0400 Message-Id: <8C86EA546E86F14-241C-1B8F6 mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <8C869E15FF247BB-1C38-8CC2 mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> <8C86AC3151DDE2B-1FC4-C2A3@mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> <8C86E48555E8C92-1B80-15828@mblkn-m17.sysops.aol.com> <8C86EA3446955CD-241C-1B892@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <8C86EA3446955CD-241C-1B892 mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.136 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k65Nr0Pu009186 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69489 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Bell, Bang and Entangle Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message-----  From: Robin van Spaandonk    RS: ...and exactly how does one know that the color is indeterminate  if no measurement has been done,    TB: I understand your position. Intuitively, I agree with you with great glee. It is identical to Einstein, Podolsky and Rosen. However, the data shows that the Bell Inequalities exist. Here's a good explanation:    http://www.ncsu.edu/felder-public/kenny/papers/bell.html    RS: No, the pattern goes away because the photons in one path are  stopped by the detector (otherwise the detector wouldn't be  detecting anything).    TB: That is the simple answer; but, it does not jive with current SQM experiments. In this case, we are speaking of *single* photon interference patterns. They create interference patterns because of Feynman's "sum of histories" concept. The interference pattern is a result of the probabilites that the photon can follow either path with a certain probability. When the photon path is known, the photon does not go away. The photon is detected at the convergence point; however, it is detected as a particle. It is not stopped at the detector.    Bohm offers an interesting explanation by separating the particle from the probability wave function. But Ockham's razor rules!    Terry    From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 5 16:53:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k65NrfiR009685; Wed, 5 Jul 2006 16:53:41 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k65NrcSM009654; Wed, 5 Jul 2006 16:53:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 16:53:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 19:53:30 -0400 Message-Id: <8C86EA55A42BD82-241C-1B8FC mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <8C869E15FF247BB-1C38-8CC2 mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> <8C86AC3151DDE2B-1FC4-C2A3@mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> <8C86E48555E8C92-1B80-15828@mblkn-m17.sysops.aol.com> <8C86EA3446955CD-241C-1B892@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> <8C86EA50C1865A1-241C-1B8F0@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <8C86EA50C1865A1-241C-1B8F0 mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.136 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k65NrZg4009609 Resent-Message-ID: <_1J-CD.A.qWC.BEFrEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69490 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Bell, Bang and Entangle Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message-----  From: hohlrauml6d    I said:    "However, the data shows that the Bell Inequalities exist."    I really meant to say that the inequalities do not exist. If JB's theory, the three axis spin probabilities should show that the deterministic case of EPR indicate red/green flashes >= 5/9; however, the data from millions of tests indicate the correlation to be exactly 50%. The correlation of states cannot possibly be predeterministic. The electrons do not "know" their spin state upon creation.    Terry  From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 6 00:49:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k667nfjb030532; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 00:49:41 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k667ndop030500; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 00:49:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 00:49:38 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=DfoU6GLDJ7Imf70D9TRwnSAquEL7k3agfrtfIyTyIJmIhtIKZ0u/CRJTViNRf2Jy; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200674674928183 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 01:49:28 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9400a74609df1f4f20117ad542e2c291d9f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.128 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69491 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Algae Ponds and Motor Fuel. Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Out-Sourced plant nutrients. Los angeles-Phoenix Express, so to speak? http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html "NREL's research showed that one quad (7.5 billion gallons) of biodiesel could be produced from 200,000 hectares of desert land (200,000 hectares is equivalent to 780 square miles, roughly 500,000 acres), if the remaining challenges are solved (as they will be, with several research groups and companies working towards it, including ours at UNH). In the previous section, we found that to replace all transportation fuels in the US, we would need 140.8 billion gallons of biodiesel, or roughly 19 quads (one quad is roughly 7.5 billion gallons of biodiesel). To produce that amount would require a land mass of almost 15,000 square miles. To put that in perspective, consider that the Sonora desert in the southwestern US comprises 120,000 square miles. Enough biodiesel to replace all petroleum transportation fuels could be grown in 15,000 square miles, or roughly 12.5 percent of the area of the Sonora desert (note for clarification - I am not advocating putting 15,000 square miles of algae ponds in the Sonora desert" http://www.aquariumpros.com/articles/algae.shtml "Like any plant, algae require food to survive. The three main nutrients that algae need are nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium. In an aquarium, these nutrients come from fish waste, uneaten food, the metabolism of beneficial bacteria, and the decay of other organics such as plant debris or even dead algae. There is also a surprisingly high amount of phosphorus in our tap water. " http://www.geocities.com/impatients63/FreeUreaBasedFertilizer.htm "Studies indicate that each person’s waste fluids can provide enough nitrogen, phosphorous and potassium to grow a year’s supply of wheat and maize for that person. According to some studies, human waste can be an even more effective fertilizer than animal manure." http://extension.oregonstate.edu/catalog/html/em/em8586/ "Most dairies need no commercial fertilizer if they use manure properly. In most cases, manure can supply all the nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, and several other nutrients needed for forage production." "More than half the nutrients in dairy rations are excreted in manure. The key to managing manure is to treat it as a resource by recycling these nutrients to produce forage. For example, one lactating dairy cow's manure can supply enough nitrogen for 1.5 acres of silage corn." By the Time it Gets to Phoenix, they'll be waiting? Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Out-Sourced plant nutrients.  Los angeles-Phoenix Express, so to speak?
 
 
"NREL's research showed that one quad (7.5 billion gallons) of biodiesel could be produced from 200,000 hectares of desert land (200,000 hectares is equivalent to 780 square miles, roughly 500,000 acres), if the remaining challenges are solved (as they will be, with several research groups and companies working towards it, including ours at UNH). In the previous section, we found that to replace all transportation fuels in the US, we would need 140.8 billion gallons of biodiesel, or roughly 19 quads (one quad is roughly 7.5 billion gallons of biodiesel). To produce that amount would require a land mass of almost 15,000 square miles. To put that in perspective, consider that the Sonora desert in the southwestern US comprises 120,000 square miles. Enough biodiesel to replace all petroleum transportation fuels could be grown in 15,000 square miles, or roughly 12.5 percent of the area of the Sonora desert (note for clarification - I am not advocating putting 15,000 square miles of algae ponds in the Sonora desert"
 
 
"Like any plant, algae require food to survive. The three main nutrients that algae need are nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium. In an aquarium, these nutrients come from fish waste, uneaten food, the metabolism of beneficial bacteria, and the decay of other organics such as plant debris or even dead algae. There is also a surprisingly high amount of phosphorus in our tap water. "
 
 
"Studies indicate that each person’s waste fluids can provide enough nitrogen, phosphorous and potassium to grow a year’s supply of wheat and maize for that person. According to some studies, human waste can be an even more effective fertilizer than animal manure."
 
 
"Most dairies need no commercial fertilizer if they use manure properly. In most cases, manure can supply all the nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, and several other nutrients needed for forage production."
"More than half the nutrients in dairy rations are excreted in manure. The key to managing manure is to treat it as a resource by recycling these nutrients to produce forage. For example, one lactating dairy cow's manure can supply enough nitrogen for 1.5 acres of silage corn."
 
By the Time it Gets to Phoenix, they'll be waiting?  
 
Fred
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 6 03:00:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k66A05CU026374; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 03:00:06 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k66A036q026308; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 03:00:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 03:00:02 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=iZSl3yziKuY/3MGdszyapaV4ikPEMTOvQx3peBM2KS8fhfmISKvw3/xpqyCb6ZabZdM/3gOX9JaLyAP6YsqI9A9u83v4AXQZtKsFo1/ZmQUDlRO3MbVhGI3yeVZOfghzgsYGvN7USmgX3PUy+f2xRSRJ0IkI7J1SNDISYE0d5u8= Message-ID: Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 05:59:59 -0400 From: "john herman" To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69492 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: WHAT is are Puthoff has responded to??? responds ?? Status: O X-Status: Can ANY Vort PLEASE respond with reasonsble text?? At times persons may cite some new or maybe new science. Once in a while one may ask...? What is -are this science. .....uh......... /i fail to read the response ..... ?can any one please help? JH On 7/3/06, thomas malloy wrote: > john herman wrote: > > > Dear Vo., > > > > > > At a loss here..... what is-are the site or sites? What address? > > What is the response? > > > > Thank you, > > > > JH > > > > On 7/2/06, thomas malloy wrote: > > > >> I emailed Hal Puthoss the link to the ZPE Energy site which one of you > >> Vortexians posted. He replied that it was interesting. > >> > >> > > http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1946 > > > > > --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 6 03:07:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k66A7DSs006287; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 03:07:14 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k66A78DK006220; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 03:07:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 03:07:08 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=bhGDbEdN9JlU+QCD+JOeaPSRWx1k/AYTA4e/TJZWOpdaNW9Jy2wivNJ6OEOtGl8bEMPyLFIoiN6Sy034I65KP5rHkTGu0ujT1M4+WuqQMBAgS7/A+WBgeAv2zF83geEUo2eP6+hQus5UiG/j1F/KjcHo+I7tYu+BhMx9raZ6Yqg= Message-ID: Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 06:07:02 -0400 From: "john herman" To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <_Yfu6D.A.wgB.LDOrEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69493 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: How Grand a series and question set Status: O X-Status: Dear ARCY, What a grand response! I will treasure this and hope to use it to poke some students, young, old and in between. I hope others will also get the life and laugh! JH On 7/3/06, RC Macaulay wrote: > > john wrote.. > > NB: Many general questions I have posed have not even been responded > to.... much less answered, hummm? > > > My understanding is Quantum Physics, Quantum Electro Dynamics and > other areas of Quantum Behavior are THEORY. Often based on > Mathmatical Theory. > > Has this changed? Are there some new physical LAWS [this is > different from theory} that are part of public domain?? > > > Howdy John, > > You need not know the question nor the answer. You must be skilled in HOW to > ask the question and how to give an answer. In the science world it is no > longer important to know anything except how to get funded or know somebody > that does.Organized groups of these people are described as Universities. > One of their finest products over the past 25 years has been the advancement > of the word " quantum". We can combine the word with breakfast cereal, > strawberries and bananas to create an entirely new chemistry where milk is > not required to wash it down. Combining the word quantum with spagetti has > enabled scientists to visualize " strings' that may in the future be useful > for clothslines when electric power becomes obsolete. > > There is endless speculation as to the direction quantum may take. > Theoriticians called "Wall Street" have discovered a type of fountain within > the core of quantum which is loosely called the "money tree". These forward > thinking people have began to work within the physics system to form > networks that can mysteriously separate money from unsuspecting sources. > > Texas A&M University just announced a evolutionary program of " instant > science culture" whereas they construct a huge cannon shaped object on > campus, load it with tightly bound bales of money and scatttershoot it > across the world toward anyone standing near a PhD. The amazing accuracy of > this cannon cannot be revealed due to the "proprietory" status of the > secrets. Any attempt to circumvent the system or "channel" these resources > into productive ends is useless. It is a proven fact demonstrated by the > most successful programs like the Tokamak and NASA that quantum is the glue > that holds the tiles onto the entire balloon. > > Design a better bicycle and you will own GM in 10 years. > > Richard > http://www.physics.umd.edu/ep/becker/becker.html > http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/4017076.html > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 6 03:24:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k66AOUH1024651; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 03:24:31 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k66AOTsq024632; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 03:24:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 03:24:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=YeO1VyAFXapFS/zmbRBVZpaud5xcMDpxJ4wJmwzFxf/hUJfKL+0HrVwbXE3jc8ns; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006746102420274 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 04:24:20 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9409590fb1a120afc1e2cf85cf0b9153e5e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.216 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69494 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Rooftop Algae Ponds can substantially lower cooling costs. The solar collector ponds can be made from plastic and periodically emptied into the city sewer system through the plumbing vent pipes for processing either to Biodiesel or fermented to Methane/CO2 by the municipal sewage treatment plant. Recycle of the Nitrogen, Phosphorous, Potassium, and CO2 for injection into the metered rooftop pond water can be supplied the the sewage plant. About 30 houses per pond acre (1/2 covered) in my neighborhood. http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html "NREL's research showed that one quad (7.5 billion gallons) of biodiesel could be produced from 200,000 hectares of desert land (200,000 hectares is equivalent to 780 square miles, roughly 500,000 acres), if the remaining challenges are solved (as they will be, with several research groups and companies working towards it, including ours at UNH). In the previous section, we found that to replace all transportation fuels in the US, we would need 140.8 billion gallons of biodiesel, or roughly 19 quads (one quad is roughly 7.5 billion gallons of biodiesel). To produce that amount would require a land mass of almost 15,000 square miles. To put that in perspective, consider that the Sonora desert in the southwestern US comprises 120,000 square miles. Enough biodiesel to replace all petroleum transportation fuels could be grown in 15,000 square miles, or roughly 12.5 percent of the area of the Sonora desert (note for clarification - I am not advocating putting 15,000 square miles of algae ponds in the Sonora desert" http://www.aquariumpros.com/articles/algae.shtml "Like any plant, algae require food to survive. The three main nutrients that algae need are nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium. In an aquarium, these nutrients come from fish waste, uneaten food, the metabolism of beneficial bacteria, and the decay of other organics such as plant debris or even dead algae. There is also a surprisingly high amount of phosphorus in our tap water. " http://www.geocities.com/impatients63/FreeUreaBasedFertilizer.htm "Studies indicate that each person’s waste fluids can provide enough nitrogen, phosphorous and potassium to grow a year’s supply of wheat and maize for that person. According to some studies, human waste can be an even more effective fertilizer than animal manure." http://extension.oregonstate.edu/catalog/html/em/em8586/ "Most dairies need no commercial fertilizer if they use manure properly. In most cases, manure can supply all the nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, and several other nutrients needed for forage production." "More than half the nutrients in dairy rations are excreted in manure. The key to managing manure is to treat it as a resource by recycling these nutrients to produce forage. For example, one lactating dairy cow's manure can supply enough nitrogen for 1.5 acres of silage corn." Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Rooftop Algae Ponds can substantially lower cooling costs.
 
The solar collector ponds can be made from plastic and periodically emptied
into the city sewer system through the plumbing vent pipes for processing either to
Biodiesel or fermented to Methane/CO2 by the municipal sewage treatment plant.
 
Recycle of the Nitrogen, Phosphorous, Potassium, and CO2 for injection
into the metered rooftop pond water can be supplied the the sewage plant.
 
About 30 houses per pond acre (1/2 covered) in my neighborhood.
 
 
 
"NREL's research showed that one quad (7.5 billion gallons) of biodiesel could be produced from 200,000 hectares of desert land (200,000 hectares is equivalent to 780 square miles, roughly 500,000 acres), if the remaining challenges are solved (as they will be, with several research groups and companies working towards it, including ours at UNH). In the previous section, we found that to replace all transportation fuels in the US, we would need 140.8 billion gallons of biodiesel, or roughly 19 quads (one quad is roughly 7.5 billion gallons of biodiesel). To produce that amount would require a land mass of almost 15,000 square miles. To put that in perspective, consider that the Sonora desert in the southwestern US comprises 120,000 square miles. Enough biodiesel to replace all petroleum transportation fuels could be grown in 15,000 square miles, or roughly 12.5 percent of the area of the Sonora desert (note for clarification - I am not advocating putting 15,000 square miles of algae ponds in the Sonora desert"
 
 
"Like any plant, algae require food to survive. The three main nutrients that algae need are nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium. In an aquarium, these nutrients come from fish waste, uneaten food, the metabolism of beneficial bacteria, and the decay of other organics such as plant debris or even dead algae. There is also a surprisingly high amount of phosphorus in our tap water. "
 
 
"Studies indicate that each person’s waste fluids can provide enough nitrogen, phosphorous and potassium to grow a year’s supply of wheat and maize for that person. According to some studies, human waste can be an even more effective fertilizer than animal manure."
 
 
"Most dairies need no commercial fertilizer if they use manure properly. In most cases, manure can supply all the nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, and several other nutrients needed for forage production."
"More than half the nutrients in dairy rations are excreted in manure. The key to managing manure is to treat it as a resource by recycling these nutrients to produce forage. For example, one lactating dairy cow's manure can supply enough nitrogen for 1.5 acres of silage corn."
 
Fred
 
 
 
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 6 06:15:14 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k66DEwU6021963; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 06:14:59 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k66DEpIa021888; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 06:14:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 06:14:51 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060706091241.03d5ca18 mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 09:14:43 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69495 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Plug-in Hybrid Vehicle Forum & Technical Roundtable Status: O X-Status: Plug-in Hybrid Vehicle Forum & Technical Roundtable The South Coast Air Quality Management District is convening a Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle (PHEV) Forum and Technical Roundtable focused on the technical issues related to advanced batteries and their effect on the development and commercialization of PHEVs. The objective of the meeting is to identify key expert perspectives on battery capabilities, requirements, and other issues specifically for application to plug-in hybrid electric vehicles and to highlight important or necessary RD&D areas for near-term commercialization of plug-in hybrids. The meeting will be held on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 at the SCAQMD headquarters in Diamond Bar, CA. The meeting will start at 9:00 a.m. in in the main auditorium. In the morning, eight technical experts will provide focused presentations on various aspects of PHEV battery issues. Following lunch, a technical roundtable discussion by these experts will be conducted. Public comment will be encouraged following the roundtable discussion. Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle Forum and Technical Roundtable Agenda Wednesday, July 12, 2006 AQMD Headquarters 21865 Copley Drive Diamond Bar, CA 91765 Main Auditorium 9:00 AM Welcome Barry Wallerstein, D.Env. Executive Officer, AQMD 9:05 AM Self-Introductions Panelists Context and Framing of Issues 9:15 AM Technical Issues and Background Matt Miyasato, Ph.D. Tech. Demonstrations Mgr, AQMD Forum Presentations 9:30 AM Plug-In HEV Battery Requirements Mark Duvall, Ph.D. Mgr., Tech. Development, EPRI 9:50 AM Dept. of Energy's Plug-in HEV Tien Duong Research Program Team Leader Vehicle Tech., FreedomCAR 10:10 AM Energy Storage Options for Plug-In Hybrid Vehicles Ahmad Pesaran, Ph.D. Principal Engineer, NREL 10:30 AM Break (20 minutes) 10:50 AM Lithium Ion Battery Issues Dan Doughty, Ph.D. Mgr., Li Ion Battery R&D, Sandia 11:10 AM Battery Systems Requirements for Production Vehicles Johnson Controls-Saft (invited) 11:30 AM Integration Experience Greg Hansen Vice President, EnergyCS 11:50 PM Plug-in Hybrid Battery Evaluation: Laboratory and Field Testing Naum Pinsky, Ph.D. Southern California Edison 12:20 PM Lunch (60 minutes) Roundtable Discussion 1:20 PM Moderator: Mark Duvall 3:30 PM Public Comment Summary and Next Steps From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 6 08:04:46 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k66F4UUR018547; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 08:04:30 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k66F4SlF018518; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 08:04:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 08:04:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <003a01c6a10d$77411ac0$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 08:04:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: <3CclQ.A.BhE.7ZSrEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69496 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: HydroBooster Status: O X-Status: Don't know what happened to Fred Sparber's SS "light switch plate" electrolyzer, but here is a simple one being built and used in automobiles by many tinkerers. It is said to be especially effective with biodiesel: http://waterpoweredcar.com/hydrobooster2.html and using the same Home Despot type switch plates - but there are other design on the net, some a cross between the JC tubes and the BG plates, some said to be better than this. You can do the math on this crude device and postulate that if the assertions were both an accurate portrayal of fuel savings (about 15%) AND if this were required by government on every new car (professionally built version), the savings on imported oil would amount to tens of billions of dollars on a nationwide basis.... Why didn't Detroit come out with an improved version of this a few years ago ... Those billions which coulda-shoulda stayed in the good old USA is money which as of now - goes to our "friends" in the middle-east, but somehow ends up in roadside bombs, killing our young men who are fighting there ... ? Go figure. Now if you had this hydrobooster device (professionally built version) running on a biodiesel plug-in hybrid... could you get to the elusive 100 MPG ... Jones Oh ... as to where all that biodiesel can come from ... Maybe not the Sonoran desert alone (how ya gonna flood that much land), but what about the shallow waters in the Gulf of Mexico? Methinks we explored some of these pro-and-con considerations for using ocean algae a while back. I suspect the nay-sayers may be more amenable to that alternative - as time goes by. Even if it takes 10 times more ocean than the 15,000 square miles of desert, that is only a tiny fraction of the available resource. Plus we can convert the old oil platforms into off-shore diodiesel factories "NREL's research showed that one quad (7.5 billion gallons) of biodiesel could be produced from 200,000 hectares of desert land (200,000 hectares is equivalent to 780 square miles, roughly 500,000 acres), if the remaining challenges are solved (as they will be, with several research groups and companies working towards it, including ours at UNH). In the previous section, we found that to replace all transportation fuels in the US, we would need 140.8 billion gallons of biodiesel, or roughly 19 quad! s (one quad is roughly 7.5 billion gallons of biodiesel). To produce that amount would require a land mass of almost 15,000 square miles. To put that in perspective, consider that the Sonora desert in the southwestern US comprises 120,000 square miles. Enough biodiesel to replace all petroleum transportation fuels could be grown in 15,000 square miles, or roughly 12.5 percent of the area of the Sonora desert (note for clarification - I am not advocating putting 15,000 square miles of algae ponds in the Sonora desert") From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 6 08:07:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k66F77tS020631; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 08:07:07 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k66F751f020607; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 08:07:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 08:07:04 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=ZhoC8tiLKqfpN5JvqAZ4Y9EV1bQba3/fYANrzUPb1pOdpvzkn61mlzQpVRum/bdB; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200674615620607 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 09:06:20 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940b26914df4f9950ea890bd51db47b9e5e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.2 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69497 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re; Algae Ponds and Motor Fuel Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII A little searching on the availability of algae in lakes and streams or water going through the turbines of hydroelectric power plants gives values of 50 mg/liter (10 cubic meters/pound) for the Colorado River and much more if there is an "algae bloom" like the green one on Lake Mead (near Las Vegas, Nevada) a few years ago. Gravity-powered filters (or centrifuges) for separation? Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

 
A little searching on the availability of algae in lakes and
streams or water going through the turbines of hydroelectric
power plants gives values of 50 mg/liter (10 cubic meters/pound)
for the Colorado River and much more if there is an "algae bloom"
like the green one on Lake Mead (near Las Vegas, Nevada) a few years ago.
 
Gravity-powered filters (or centrifuges) for separation? 
 
Fred
 
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 6 08:17:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k66FHR6D026136; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 08:17:27 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k66FHPfU026109; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 08:17:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 08:17:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=ZG9a7V1wYWo7clCvF3mPqJ1wtLVPWgWSI7lDV8NOznzp5+QnC7I+nmnXx9ex070z; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006746151715599 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]: HydroBooster Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 09:17:15 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9400936e913e6ddfc2aacc846f07fe69c8b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.2 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69498 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones Beene wrote. > > Don't know what happened to Fred Sparber's SS "light switch plate" > electrolyzer, > It has been on the 93 GMC pickup for weeks undergoing performance testing by my lackey. :-) Lackey says,"Improved mileage and pep". I'm spending my time figuring how "String Fractals" (Positron-Electron Pairing} get set up to give the WaterFuel it's kick. Fred > > but here is a simple one being built and used in > automobiles by many tinkerers. It is said to be especially > effective with biodiesel: > > http://waterpoweredcar.com/hydrobooster2.html > > and using the same Home Despot type switch plates - but there are > other design on the net, some a cross between the JC tubes and the > BG plates, some said to be better than this. > > You can do the math on this crude device and postulate that if the > assertions were both an accurate portrayal of fuel savings (about > 15%) AND if this were required by government on every new car > (professionally built version), the savings on imported oil would > amount to tens of billions of dollars on a nationwide basis.... > > Why didn't Detroit come out with an improved version of this a few > years ago ... > > Those billions which coulda-shoulda stayed in the good old USA is > money which as of now - goes to our "friends" in the middle-east, > but somehow ends up in roadside bombs, killing our young men who > are fighting there ... ? Go figure. > > Now if you had this hydrobooster device (professionally built > version) running on a biodiesel plug-in hybrid... could you get to > the elusive 100 MPG ... is 'yes'> > > Jones > > Oh ... as to where all that biodiesel can come from ... Maybe not > the Sonoran desert alone (how ya gonna flood that much land), but > what about the shallow waters in the Gulf of Mexico? Methinks we > explored some of these pro-and-con considerations for using ocean > algae a while back. > > I suspect the nay-sayers may be more amenable to that > alternative - as time goes by. Even if it takes 10 times more > ocean than the 15,000 square miles of desert, that is only a tiny > fraction of the available resource. Plus we can convert the old > oil platforms into off-shore diodiesel factories > > "NREL's research showed that one quad (7.5 billion gallons) of > biodiesel could be produced from 200,000 hectares of desert land > (200,000 hectares is equivalent to 780 square miles, roughly > 500,000 acres), if the remaining challenges are solved (as they > will be, with several research groups and companies working > towards it, including ours at UNH). In the previous section, we > found that to replace all transportation fuels in the US, we would > need 140.8 billion gallons of biodiesel, or roughly 19 quad! s > (one quad is roughly 7.5 billion gallons of biodiesel). To produce > that amount would require a land mass of almost 15,000 square > miles. To put that in perspective, consider that the Sonora desert > in the southwestern US comprises 120,000 square miles. Enough > biodiesel to replace all petroleum transportation fuels could be > grown in 15,000 square miles, or roughly 12.5 percent of the area > of the Sonora desert > > (note for clarification - I am not advocating putting 15,000 > square miles of algae ponds in the Sonora desert") > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 6 10:27:19 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k66HR51V005913; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 10:27:06 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k66HQwSK005841; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 10:26:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 10:26:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 13:24:08 -0500 From: Harry Veeder In-reply-to: <410-2200674615620607 earthlink.net> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69499 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: $value of human waste? Status: O X-Status: I wonder what would society be like if the $value of one's output (excrement) exceeded the $value of one's input (food and drink). Anyway...did you know the Romans valued human urine because they used it for cleaning of clothes? Harry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 6 10:43:02 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k66Hgnod016815; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 10:42:50 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k66HgklH016779; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 10:42:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 10:42:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: "Anthony" To: Subject: RE: [Vo]: $value of human waste? Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:42:27 -0500 Message-ID: <005401c6a123$8d281760$0601a8c0 STUFFMARTUSA2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69500 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I'm also told that urine is good to control poison ivy, although I don't know that personally. It's also good critter control.. :) Anthony -----Original Message----- From: Harry Veeder [mailto:eo200 freenet.carleton.ca] Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 1:24 PM To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: $value of human waste? I wonder what would society be like if the $value of one's output (excrement) exceeded the $value of one's input (food and drink). Anyway...did you know the Romans valued human urine because they used it for cleaning of clothes? Harry -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/361 - Release Date: 6/11/2006 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 6 11:12:03 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k66IBhtB004575; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 11:11:44 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k66IBfkZ004538; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 11:11:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 11:11:40 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <009c01c6a127$9d41a7c0$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <410-2200674674928183 earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 11:11:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69501 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Algae Ponds and Motor Fuel. Status: O X-Status: In the beginning ... to correct a famous ontology ... was Algae In addition to the sites listed by Fred - this one is very specific with lots of links: http://www.oilgae.com/ Good info - and the enormous yield which is avialable is a big surprise. Forget ethanol - biodiesel rules! There is a dedicated forum: http://www.biodieselnow.com/ Biodiesel, combined with onboard electrolysis (the H2 "pilot" for cold starts and added efficiency) all added to the plug-in hybrid config is looking like the ultimate soultion - and it is carbon-neutral (except for the plug-in part) ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber Out-Sourced plant nutrients. Los angeles-Phoenix Express, so to speak? http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html "NREL's research showed that one quad (7.5 billion gallons) of biodiesel could be produced from 200,000 hectares of desert land (200,000 hectares is equivalent to 780 square miles, roughly 500,000 acres), if the remaining challenges are solved (as they will be, with several research groups and companies working towards it, including ours at UNH). In the previous section, we found that to replace all transportation fuels in the US, we would need 140.8 billion gallons of biodiesel, or roughly 19 quad! s (one quad is roughly 7.5 billion gallons of biodiesel). To produce that amount would require a land mass of almost 15,000 square miles. To put that in perspective, consider that the Sonora desert in the southwestern US comprises 120,000 square miles. Enough biodiesel to replace all petroleum transportation fuels could be grown in 15,000 square miles, or roughly 12.5 percent of the area of the Sonora desert (note for clarification - I am not advocating putting 15,000 square miles of algae ponds in the Sonora desert" http://www.aquariumpros.com/articles/algae.shtml "Like any plant, algae require food to survive. The three main nutrients that algae need are nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium. In an aquarium, these nutrients come from fish waste, uneaten food, the metabolism of beneficial bacteria, and the decay of other organics such as plant debris or even dead algae. There is also a surprisingly high amount of phosphorus in our tap water. " http://www.geocities.com/impatients63/FreeUreaBasedFertilizer.htm "Studies indicate that each person's waste fluids can provide enough nitrogen, phosphorous and potassium to grow a year's supply of wheat and maize for that person. According to some studies, human waste can be an even more effective fertilizer than animal manure." http://extension.oregonstate.edu/catalog/html/em/em8586/ "Most dairies need no commercial fertilizer if they use manure properly. In most cases, manure can supply all the nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, and several other nutrients needed for forage production." "More than half the nutrients in dairy rations are excreted in manure. The key to managing manure is to treat it as a resource by recycling these nutrients to produce forage. For example, one lactating dairy cow's manure can supply enough nitrogen for 1.5 acres of silage corn." By the Time it Gets to Phoenix, they'll be waiting? Fred From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 6 11:15:53 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k66IFU6A007457; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 11:15:30 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k66IFQ6W007416; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 11:15:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 11:15:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: "Anthony" To: Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 13:15:11 -0500 Message-ID: <005501c6a128$1f3b94c0$0601a8c0 STUFFMARTUSA2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <005401c6a123$8d281760$0601a8c0 STUFFMARTUSA2> Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69502 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: 32 inch V-Track.. Status: O X-Status: Hi, I recently downloaded a video where a guy, I forget his name, has a small yellow car, running down a track on top of a clear plastic top, setting on top of what appears to be permanent magnets. Someone introduces the video by saying "this is a one-directional, 32 inch, v-track with one gate." then he lets go of the car and it races down the track. Does anybody know what I'm talking about? I got the video and a few others here... http://www.fdp.nu/shared/manager.asp?d=files%5CCalloways%20Perendev%5C Anyway.. Does anybody know if this guy is using permanent magnets or are there electro-magnets involved? And if it's all permanents, does anybody have plans on how to make this device or have you made one yourself? Thanks in advance!! Anthony From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 6 11:40:02 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k66IdiqH021330; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 11:39:44 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k66IdfOt021303; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 11:39:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 11:39:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 14:36:52 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: [Vo]: 32 inch V-Track.. In-reply-to: <005501c6a128$1f3b94c0$0601a8c0 STUFFMARTUSA2> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69504 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Cool. If the track was circular and banked and a rod extended from the car to a generator located at the centre of the circle, would the car generate electricity indefinitely ??? (I say indefinitely instead of perpetually, since the latter would require no wear and tear.) Harry Anthony wrote: > Hi, > > I recently downloaded a video where a guy, I forget his name, has a > small yellow car, running down a track on top of a clear plastic top, > setting on top of what appears to be permanent magnets. Someone > introduces the video by saying "this is a one-directional, 32 inch, > v-track with one gate." then he lets go of the car and it races down the > track. Does anybody know what I'm talking about? > > I got the video and a few others here... > > http://www.fdp.nu/shared/manager.asp?d=files%5CCalloways%20Perendev%5C > > Anyway.. > > Does anybody know if this guy is using permanent magnets or are there > electro-magnets involved? And if it's all permanents, does anybody have > plans on how to make this device or have you made one yourself? > > Thanks in advance!! > Anthony > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 6 11:44:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k66IXZTx018823; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 11:33:35 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k66IXWW6018798; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 11:33:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 11:33:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00b401c6a12a$ab986ef0$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <410-2200674674928183 earthlink.net> <009c01c6a127$9d41a7c0$6401a8c0@NuDell> Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 11:33:25 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69503 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Algae Ponds and Motor Fuel. Status: O X-Status: Forgot to mention in previous post - there is an expert opinion on such matters - from the most respected ex-Texan of them all : In case you missed the "Fresh Air" interivew - May 2 - in which Terry G. interviews music legend Willie Nelson (who BTW has out a new book, The Tao of Willie ...) Anyway, Willie in addition to other talents almost single-handedly popularized the first biodiesel craze years ago when he outfiited his Tour-Bus to run on diodiesel made from all things - hemp seeds (No longer the 'Down to Seeds and Stems Again Blues') ... he was not arrested this time. Nowadays Willie lives in Hawii and all of his vehicles are powered by biodiesel. One suspects that seeds from Maui-Wowie will give an added boost, but noone can really remember when they filled up last.... Jones From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 6 11:48:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k66ImCOI029401; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 11:48:13 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k66ImBxK029381; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 11:48:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 11:48:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 14:45:22 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: [Vo]: 32 inch V-Track.. In-reply-to: To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69505 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Actually, the track would not even need to be banked. Harry Harry Veeder wrote: > > Cool. > If the track was circular and banked and a rod extended from the car to a > generator located at the centre of the circle, would the car generate > electricity indefinitely ??? > > (I say indefinitely instead of perpetually, since the latter would require > no wear and tear.) > > Harry > > Anthony wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I recently downloaded a video where a guy, I forget his name, has a >> small yellow car, running down a track on top of a clear plastic top, >> setting on top of what appears to be permanent magnets. Someone >> introduces the video by saying "this is a one-directional, 32 inch, >> v-track with one gate." then he lets go of the car and it races down the >> track. Does anybody know what I'm talking about? >> >> I got the video and a few others here... >> >> http://www.fdp.nu/shared/manager.asp?d=files%5CCalloways%20Perendev%5C >> >> Anyway.. >> >> Does anybody know if this guy is using permanent magnets or are there >> electro-magnets involved? And if it's all permanents, does anybody have >> plans on how to make this device or have you made one yourself? >> >> Thanks in advance!! >> Anthony >> >> > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 6 12:07:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k66IxVTS005303; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 11:59:32 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k66IxS7V005260; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 11:59:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 11:59:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 14:58:56 -0400 Message-Id: <8C86F455E2A3FD1-241C-1E6FF mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <410-2200674674928183 earthlink.net> <009c01c6a127$9d41a7c0$6401a8c0@NuDell> <00b401c6a12a$ab986ef0$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <00b401c6a12a$ab986ef0$6401a8c0 NuDell> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.136 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k66IxOD9005192 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69507 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Algae Ponds and Motor Fuel. Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene Nowadays Willie lives in Hawii and all of his vehicles are powered by biodiesel. One suspects that seeds from Maui-Wowie will give an added boost, but noone can really remember when they filled up last....  <><><><><> Well if his sh*t-kickin' buddy, Kinky Friedman becomes gov'nor http://www.kinkyfriedman.com/ of that fine state, maybe they will grow the herb, extract the essence and make Texas the energy captial of the world again. "Why the hell not" and "How hard could it be" make KF's great mottos. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 6 12:10:24 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k66IrEbJ001005; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 11:53:14 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k66IrCAG000971; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 11:53:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 11:53:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 14:53:01 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net Message-Id: <8C86F448A695D28-241C-1E6B2 mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <005501c6a128$1f3b94c0$0601a8c0 STUFFMARTUSA2> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Subject: Re: [Vo]: 32 inch V-Track.. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.136 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69506 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Anthony I recently downloaded a video where a guy, I forget his name, has a small yellow car, running down a track on top of a clear plastic top, setting on top of what appears to be permanent magnets. Someone introduces the video by saying "this is a one-directional, 32 inch, v-track with one gate." then he lets go of the car and it races down the track. Does anybody know what I'm talking about? <><><><><> Probably Thom Schum's page: http://mysite.verizon.net/vzesfls5/files/ <><><><><> I got the video and a few others here... http://www.fdp.nu/shared/manager.asp?d=files%5CCalloways%20Perendev%5C Anyway.. Does anybody know if this guy is using permanent magnets or are there electro-magnets involved? And if it's all permanents, does anybody have plans on how to make this device or have you made one yourself? <><><><><> Mike Brady uses permanent magnets. Go here: http://pesn.org/ and type in 'perendev' into the search box. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 6 12:38:17 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k66JblL5000885; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:37:48 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k66JbYF7000712; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:37:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:37:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-ClientAddr: 69.29.140.55 From: "Anthony" To: Subject: RE: [Vo]: 32 inch V-Track.. Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 13:43:26 -0500 Message-ID: <006601c6a12c$118cc930$0601a8c0 STUFFMARTUSA2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-yoursite-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-yoursite-MailScanner: Not scanned: please contact your Internet E-Mail Service Provider for details X-MailScanner-From: personal stuffmartusa.com Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69508 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yeah... I think that's the idea... It sure seems like it would work.. I just don't know myself. Anthony -----Original Message----- From: Harry Veeder [mailto:eo200 freenet.carleton.ca] Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 2:37 PM To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: 32 inch V-Track.. Cool. If the track was circular and banked and a rod extended from the car to a generator located at the centre of the circle, would the car generate electricity indefinitely ??? (I say indefinitely instead of perpetually, since the latter would require no wear and tear.) Harry Anthony wrote: > Hi, > > I recently downloaded a video where a guy, I forget his name, has a > small yellow car, running down a track on top of a clear plastic top, > setting on top of what appears to be permanent magnets. Someone > introduces the video by saying "this is a one-directional, 32 inch, > v-track with one gate." then he lets go of the car and it races down > the track. Does anybody know what I'm talking about? > > I got the video and a few others here... > > http://www.fdp.nu/shared/manager.asp?d=files%5CCalloways%20Perendev%5C > > Anyway.. > > Does anybody know if this guy is using permanent magnets or are there > electro-magnets involved? And if it's all permanents, does anybody > have plans on how to make this device or have you made one yourself? > > Thanks in advance!! > Anthony > > -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/361 - Release Date: 6/11/2006 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 6 12:46:12 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k66Jjhhj006222; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:45:43 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k66Jje0O006176; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:45:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:45:40 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <200607061945.k66JjYfF004728 mail2.mx.voyager.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 14:45:33 -0500 From: "OrionWorks" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: svj orionworks.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: $value of human waste? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_98dfe8f9b8bbad4e22c6080015ca5b3f" X-Mailer: CoreComm Webmail X-IPAddress: 130.47.34.2 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69510 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=_98dfe8f9b8bbad4e22c6080015ca5b3f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Harry sez: > I wonder what would society be like if the $value of one's output > (excrement) exceeded the $value of one's input (food and drink). > ... > > Harry > Hard to predict. Perhaps the value of bullshit would go down. On second thought, probably not... Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks --=_98dfe8f9b8bbad4e22c6080015ca5b3f Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Harry sez:

> I wonder what would society be like if the $value of one's output
> (excrement) exceeded the $value of one's input (food and drink).
>
...
>
> Harry
>

Hard to predict. Perhaps the value of bullshit would go down.

On second thought, probably not...


Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks --=_98dfe8f9b8bbad4e22c6080015ca5b3f-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 6 12:46:43 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k66Jeh9q003056; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:40:43 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k66Jeg8n003023; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:40:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:40:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 14:38:22 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: [Vo]: 32 inch V-Track.. In-reply-to: <005501c6a128$1f3b94c0$0601a8c0 STUFFMARTUSA2> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69509 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: It looks like he just used permanent magnets. Harry Anthony wrote: > Hi, > > I recently downloaded a video where a guy, I forget his name, has a > small yellow car, running down a track on top of a clear plastic top, > setting on top of what appears to be permanent magnets. Someone > introduces the video by saying "this is a one-directional, 32 inch, > v-track with one gate." then he lets go of the car and it races down the > track. Does anybody know what I'm talking about? > > I got the video and a few others here... > > http://www.fdp.nu/shared/manager.asp?d=files%5CCalloways%20Perendev%5C > > Anyway.. > > Does anybody know if this guy is using permanent magnets or are there > electro-magnets involved? And if it's all permanents, does anybody have > plans on how to make this device or have you made one yourself? > > Thanks in advance!! > Anthony > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 6 13:02:17 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k66K21qZ016749; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 13:02:01 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k66K1xQS016718; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 13:01:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 13:01:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00d501c6a136$191cc6a0$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <410-2200674674928183 earthlink.net> <009c01c6a127$9d41a7c0$6401a8c0@NuDell> <00b401c6a12a$ab986ef0$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C86F455E2A3FD1-241C-1E6FF@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:55:13 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69512 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: OT: Political "reform": was Algae Ponds... Status: O X-Status: Ref (Wiki): Richard S. Friedman, (born October 31, 1944) American singer, songwriter, and novelist, who is currently an independent candidate for the office of Governor of Texas. > "Why the hell not" and "How hard could it be" make KF's great > mottos. Terry --- Yup, perhaps "it couldn't be that hard," nowadays - but that's only because T. Delay is minding his manners, and will likely decline to tamper with things in the usual stuffed-box kinda way ... and given that mass-hysteria, lack of viable alternatives, and the charisma-factor (any kind of notoriety) are all in play in the Lone Star these daze - hey ... quien sabe ? ... don't forget that Jesse "the body" Ventura was elected governor of Minnesota, arguably a more sophisticated state. If Kinky can speak good Tejana, then watch out, Homey. After all, a professional wrestler turned movie star is arguably lesser credentials than the writer of such classics as "Get Your Biscuits In The Oven and Your Buns In Bed" and either should exceed a draft-dodging ex-alchoholic baseball-team magnate. Well ...anywhere but Texas where money doesn't "just" talk. On the negative side - has Friedman lost some of the ethnic 'rainbow' appeal of his heritage by naming his band "The Texas Jewboys" and other affronts to the faith? This is probably not a voting bloc that a minority candidate can afford to loose - even with Willie's help. Apparently Friedman's father objected to the name of the band, calling it a "negative, hostile, peculiar thing" which gave Kinky even more reason to choose the name - this according to Wiki (expert on everything). Texans may go for that. At least he confronted racism and anti-Semitism head-on as in the song, "They Ain't Makin' Jews Like Jesus Anymore," a song in which Kinky verbally and physically beats up a drunken White racist who berates African Americans, Jews, Greeks and Sigma Nu's in a bar. His song "Asshole from El Paso", a parody of Merle Haggard's "Okie from Muskogee" is his most famous song and would easily get him my vote if I can register there soon enough. (I still have some relatives hanging around in Pecos county ). BTW did you see where Wiki immediately labeled the Ken Lay death as suicide? They may have to add some controls in there soon, as a few folks think of it as a real authority. Ain't third party politics great, not to mention, ain't anything mostly 'out of institutionalized control' like Wiki, Kinky, and Willie - annoying to the politico-pros? Gotta luv-it... otherwise. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 6 13:08:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k66JttRT013269; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:55:56 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k66JtlMa013217; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:55:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:55:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 15:52:19 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: [Vo]: 32 inch V-Track.. In-reply-to: <006601c6a12c$118cc930$0601a8c0 STUFFMARTUSA2> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69511 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Permanent magnets can be expensive. If the "car" were a lot lighter, thin fridge magnets would be enough to demonstrate the effect. Fridge magnets come in sheets which could be cut into the 'V' shapes like those in the video. Of course the plastic "road" would have to be thinner too since such fridge magnets are weak. Harry Anthony wrote: > Yeah... I think that's the idea... It sure seems like it would work.. I > just don't know myself. > > Anthony > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Harry Veeder [mailto:eo200 freenet.carleton.ca] > Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 2:37 PM > To: vortex-l eskimo.com > Subject: Re: [Vo]: 32 inch V-Track.. > > > > Cool. > If the track was circular and banked and a rod extended from the car to > a generator located at the centre of the circle, would the car generate > electricity indefinitely ??? > > (I say indefinitely instead of perpetually, since the latter would > require no wear and tear.) > > Harry > > Anthony wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I recently downloaded a video where a guy, I forget his name, has a >> small yellow car, running down a track on top of a clear plastic top, >> setting on top of what appears to be permanent magnets. Someone >> introduces the video by saying "this is a one-directional, 32 inch, >> v-track with one gate." then he lets go of the car and it races down >> the track. Does anybody know what I'm talking about? >> >> I got the video and a few others here... >> >> http://www.fdp.nu/shared/manager.asp?d=files%5CCalloways%20Perendev%5C >> >> Anyway.. >> >> Does anybody know if this guy is using permanent magnets or are there >> electro-magnets involved? And if it's all permanents, does anybody >> have plans on how to make this device or have you made one yourself? >> >> Thanks in advance!! >> Anthony >> >> From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 6 13:20:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k66KK45e028666; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 13:20:17 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k66KCSLu022961; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 13:12:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 13:12:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 16:09:29 -0500 From: Harry Veeder In-reply-to: <006601c6a12c$118cc930$0601a8c0 STUFFMARTUSA2> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69513 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Calloway engines/was Re: [Vo]: 32 inch V-Track.. Status: O X-Status: Using "Calloway's new V track" from the site you provided, I found this website: http://www.callowayengines.com/ Harry Anthony wrote: > Yeah... I think that's the idea... It sure seems like it would work.. I > just don't know myself. > > Anthony > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Harry Veeder [mailto:eo200 freenet.carleton.ca] > Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 2:37 PM > To: vortex-l eskimo.com > Subject: Re: [Vo]: 32 inch V-Track.. > > > > Cool. > If the track was circular and banked and a rod extended from the car to > a generator located at the centre of the circle, would the car generate > electricity indefinitely ??? > > (I say indefinitely instead of perpetually, since the latter would > require no wear and tear.) > > Harry > > Anthony wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I recently downloaded a video where a guy, I forget his name, has a >> small yellow car, running down a track on top of a clear plastic top, >> setting on top of what appears to be permanent magnets. Someone >> introduces the video by saying "this is a one-directional, 32 inch, >> v-track with one gate." then he lets go of the car and it races down >> the track. Does anybody know what I'm talking about? >> >> I got the video and a few others here... >> >> http://www.fdp.nu/shared/manager.asp?d=files%5CCalloways%20Perendev%5C >> >> Anyway.. >> >> Does anybody know if this guy is using permanent magnets or are there >> electro-magnets involved? And if it's all permanents, does anybody >> have plans on how to make this device or have you made one yourself? >> >> Thanks in advance!! >> Anthony >> >> From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 6 14:30:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k66LUNk8005708; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:30:30 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k66LRJjL003031; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:27:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:27:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: "Anthony" To: Subject: RE: [Vo]: Calloway engines/was Re: [Vo]: 32 inch V-Track.. Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 16:26:45 -0500 Message-ID: <001f01c6a142$e3267660$0601a8c0 STUFFMARTUSA2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69514 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks Harry! I'll have to look more into that. Anthony -----Original Message----- From: Harry Veeder [mailto:eo200 freenet.carleton.ca] Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 4:09 PM To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Calloway engines/was Re: [Vo]: 32 inch V-Track.. Using "Calloway's new V track" from the site you provided, I found this website: http://www.callowayengines.com/ Harry Anthony wrote: > Yeah... I think that's the idea... It sure seems like it would work.. > I just don't know myself. > > Anthony > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Harry Veeder [mailto:eo200 freenet.carleton.ca] > Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 2:37 PM > To: vortex-l eskimo.com > Subject: Re: [Vo]: 32 inch V-Track.. > > > > Cool. > If the track was circular and banked and a rod extended from the car > to a generator located at the centre of the circle, would the car > generate electricity indefinitely ??? > > (I say indefinitely instead of perpetually, since the latter would > require no wear and tear.) > > Harry > > Anthony wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I recently downloaded a video where a guy, I forget his name, has a >> small yellow car, running down a track on top of a clear plastic top, >> setting on top of what appears to be permanent magnets. Someone >> introduces the video by saying "this is a one-directional, 32 inch, >> v-track with one gate." then he lets go of the car and it races down >> the track. Does anybody know what I'm talking about? >> >> I got the video and a few others here... >> >> http://www.fdp.nu/shared/manager.asp?d=files%5CCalloways%20Perendev%5 >> C >> >> Anyway.. >> >> Does anybody know if this guy is using permanent magnets or are there >> electro-magnets involved? And if it's all permanents, does anybody >> have plans on how to make this device or have you made one yourself? >> >> Thanks in advance!! >> Anthony >> >> -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/361 - Release Date: 6/11/2006 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 6 14:40:21 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k66Ldv18011288; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:39:58 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k66Ldq0O011231; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:39:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:39:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 17:39:38 -0400 Message-Id: <8C86F5BD0C07348-241C-1EF0B mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <410-2200674674928183 earthlink.net> <009c01c6a127$9d41a7c0$6401a8c0@NuDell> <00b401c6a12a$ab986ef0$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C86F455E2A3FD1-241C-1E6FF@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> <00d501c6a136$191cc6a0$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <00d501c6a136$191cc6a0$6401a8c0 NuDell> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Subject: Re: [Vo]: OT: Political "reform": was Algae Ponds... Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.136 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k66LdjTI011139 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69515 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene His song "Asshole from El Paso", a parody of Merle Haggard's "Okie from Muskogee" is his most famous song and would easily get him my vote if I can register there soon enough. (I still have some relatives hanging around in Pecos county ).    BTW did you see where Wiki immediately labeled the Ken Lay death as suicide? They may have to add some controls in there soon, as a few folks think of it as a real authority.    Ain't third party politics great, not to mention, ain't anything mostly 'out of institutionalized control' like Wiki, Kinky, and Willie - annoying to the politico-pros? Gotta luv-it... otherwise.   <><><><><> I became a Kinky fan from his books before I was aware of his music; but, I just think the Texas Jewboy might fit the boot for the Lone Star state. Re: Lay -- I'd await the autopsy results before passing judgement on the wiki writer. ;-) Ain't life fun!? I mean, if we lived 600 years like Noah, you'd have to take it seriously. But with only six score before the telomere decay . . . everything is funny to me. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 6 19:31:56 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k672Vgmd010233; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 19:31:43 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k672VdB0010204; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 19:31:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 19:31:39 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-CVTV-Spamfilter: Scanned X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Virus-Scanned: by McAfee Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <002a01c6a16d$6fe53f80$3b027841 xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: [VO]: Re: OT: Political "reform":was algae Ponds.. Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 21:30:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0026_01C6A143.6F3FC9D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69516 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C6A143.6F3FC9D0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0027_01C6A143.6F415070" ------=_NextPart_001_0027_01C6A143.6F415070 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankJones wrote.. "Kinky" Friedman... is his most famous song and would easily get him my=20 vote if I can register there soon enough. (I still have some=20 relatives hanging around in Pecos county ). Howdy Jones, Ya make me smile Jones. No Place but Texas could a political matchup = come like this in year 2006. We also have "One Tough Grandma" = Strayhorn.. short for Carole Keeton Rylander Strayhorn also running as = independent for Texas Governor. She and Kinky face Rick Perry(R) = incumbent. Not a one of them could make the cut in a P.T.Barnum circus act but whos = laughing.. Ya got Arnold Stretchnavel playing Guv of Calefortunato so we = want "Kinky"..=20 Funny thing is that out of 4 candidates, Kinky has a strong 2nd place = with Perry of the vote estimate. Nowhere else but Texas where no man's = life nor property is safe when the legislature is in session. Surprise is that the largest segment of landowners in Pecos county are = Hollywood people. Buying land out there like its going out of style.. = 50k acres at a pop.=20 Self appointed Judge Roy Bean of Langtry Texas beside the Pecos river = could have become rich with the opportunity. He fleeced the ones heading = toward California and could have done it again on the way back. Richard=20 ------=_NextPart_001_0027_01C6A143.6F415070 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Jones wrote..
 

"Kinky" Friedman... is his most famous song and would easily get = him my=20
vote if I can register there soon enough. (I still have some =
relatives=20 hanging around in Pecos county <g> ).

Howdy Jones,

Ya make me smile Jones.  No Place but Texas could a political = matchup=20 come like this in year 2006. We also have "One Tough Grandma" = Strayhorn.. short=20 for Carole Keeton Rylander Strayhorn also running as independent for = Texas=20 Governor. She and Kinky face Rick Perry(R) incumbent.

Not a one of them could make the cut in a P.T.Barnum circus act but = whos=20 laughing.. Ya got Arnold Stretchnavel playing Guv of Calefortunato so we = want=20 "Kinky"..

Funny thing is that out of 4 candidates, Kinky has a strong 2nd = place=20 with Perry of the vote estimate. Nowhere else but Texas where no man's = life nor=20 property is safe when the legislature is in session.

Surprise is that the largest segment of landowners in Pecos county = are=20 Hollywood people. Buying land out there like its going out of style.. = 50k acres=20 at a  pop. 

 Self appointed Judge Roy Bean of Langtry Texas beside the = Pecos=20 river could have become rich with the opportunity. He fleeced the ones = heading=20 toward California and could have done it again on the way back.

Richard 

------=_NextPart_001_0027_01C6A143.6F415070-- ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C6A143.6F3FC9D0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <002501c6a16d$580e30b0$3b027841 xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C6A143.6F3FC9D0-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 6 20:07:37 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k67377R0030890; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 20:07:07 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k67373pA030841; Thu, 6 Jul 2006 20:07:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 20:07:03 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <44ADCFB3.3090600 usfamily.net> Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 22:06:27 -0500 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com References: <410-22006746102420274 earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <410-22006746102420274 earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69517 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: biofuel from the desert Status: O X-Status: Frederick Sparber wrote: > > "NREL's research showed that one quad (7.5 billion gallons) of > biodiesel could be produced from 200,000 hectares of desert land > (200,000 hectares is equivalent to 780 Interesting post Fred. I met a man who is in the RO water machine business. The largest model has a 15,000 HP motor powering it. You could build three pipelines into an area. One for sea water, one for a waste water return, and one for fuel. I wonder how that would affect the feasibility of this project? You could produce some surplus water which would support trees, I wonder if such an activity would modify the climate. Perhaps we could regrow the Saraha Forest. --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 7 00:13:12 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k677D0Qk014710; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 00:13:01 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k677Csn1014652; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 00:12:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 00:12:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=q0MdaRApjKU54jQDtjW7xn4eW3ooAcINrpHAiWZnALi/6mlkXK3yZHKCX3DKmHBf; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200675771241753 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: [Vo]: biofuel from the desert Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 01:12:41 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940410089d5fc551b7115983d7a73f09f24350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.232 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69518 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Thomas Malloy wrote. > > Perhaps we could regrow the Sahara Forest. > What do you mean, we, Pail Face? :-) Simpler to use the kilowatt per square meter solar insolation to evaporate sea water using passive floating heat pipe "stills" where the heat of condensation is dumped into the sea. Then pump the distilled water to the desert. The heat pipe still is just an open top chamber spaced within a closed chamber with a transparent top. The water vapor goes into the vapor space and condenses on the seawater-cooled walls. even if the walls are only a fraction of a degree below the evaporator temperature. Lower evaporator temperature operation at sub-atmospheric pressure is obtained by pulling out some air. The vacuum (low pressure) limit depends on the strength of the structure. You can do this with salt water in a Styrofoam cup in a jar floating in a pan of water. About 3 pounds per square meter per hour or 15 tons/hectare-hour under a bright sun. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Thomas Malloy wrote.
>
> Perhaps we could regrow the Sahara Forest.
>
What do you mean, we, Pail Face?  :-)
 
Simpler to use the kilowatt per square meter solar insolation
to evaporate sea water using passive floating heat pipe "stills"
where the heat of condensation is dumped into the sea.
Then pump the distilled water to the desert.
 
The heat pipe still is just an open top chamber  spaced within a
closed chamber with a transparent top.
The water vapor goes into the vapor space and condenses on the seawater-cooled walls.
even if the walls are only a fraction of a degree below the evaporator temperature.
Lower evaporator temperature operation at sub-atmospheric pressure is  obtained
by pulling out some air.
The vacuum (low pressure) limit depends on the strength of the structure.
 
You can do this with salt water in a Styrofoam cup in a jar floating in a pan of water.
 
About 3 pounds per square meter per hour or 15 tons/hectare-hour
under a bright sun.
 
Fred
 
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 7 03:08:33 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k67A8Cwp011549; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 03:08:12 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k67A85LP011510; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 03:08:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 03:08:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=iAdaPAWeXsjzkNkEs6SKBUWNmT/qU4FQqqvGNvBrjua75twp2xFGqX2iHLntkiNl; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200675710739658 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 04:07:39 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9409b02e6ebc4b23154d04043ca6d43a639350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.252 Resent-Message-ID: <2OHKt.A.uzC.FKjrEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69519 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII from the January 11, 2006 edition Algae - like a breath mint for smokestacks By Mark Clayton | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor BOSTON - Isaac Berzin is a big fan of algae. The tiny, single-celled plant, he says, could transform the world's energy needs and cut global warming. Overshadowed by a multibillion-dollar push into other "clean-coal" technologies, a handful of tiny companies are racing to create an even cleaner, greener process using the same slimy stuff that thrives in the world's oceans. Enter Dr. Berzin, a rocket scientist at Massachusetts Institute of Technology. About three years ago, while working on an experiment for growing algae on the International Space Station, he came up with the idea for using it to clean up power-plant exhaust. If he could find the right strain of algae, he figured he could turn the nation's greenhouse-gas-belching power plants into clean-green generators with an attached algae farm next door. "This is a big idea," Berzin says, "a really powerful idea." And one that's taken him to the top - a rooftop. Bolted onto the exhaust stacks of a brick-and-glass 20-megawatt power plant behind MIT's campus are rows of fat, clear tubes, each with green algae soup simmering inside. Fed a generous helping of CO2-laden emissions, courtesy of the power plant's exhaust stack, the algae grow quickly even in the wan rays of a New England sun. The cleansed exhaust bubbles skyward, but with 40 percent less CO2 (a larger cut than the Kyoto treaty mandates) and another bonus: 86 percent less nitrous oxide. After the CO2 is soaked up like a sponge, the algae is harvested daily. From that harvest, a combustible vegetable oil is squeezed out: biodiesel for automobiles. Berzin hands a visitor two vials - one with algal biodiesel, a clear, slightly yellowish liquid, the other with the dried green flakes that remained. Even that dried remnant can be further reprocessed to create ethanol, also used for transportation. Being a good Samaritan on air quality usually costs a bundle. But Berzin's pitch is one hard-nosed utility executives and climate-change skeptics might like: It can make a tidy profit. "You want to do good for the environment, of course, but we're not forcing people to do it for that reason - and that's the key," says the founder of GreenFuel Technologies, in Cambridge, Mass. "We're showing them how they can help the environment and make money at the same time." GreenFuel has already garnered $11 million in venture capital funding and is conducting a field trial at a 1,000 megawatt power plant owned by a major southwestern power company. Next year, GreenFuel expects two to seven more such demo projects scaling up to a full pro- duction system by 2009. Even though it's early yet, and may be a long shot, "the technology is quite fascinating," says Barry Worthington, executive director of US Energy Association in Washington, which represents electric utilities, government agencies, and the oil and gas industry. One key is selecting an algae with a high oil density - about 50 percent of its weight. Because this kind of algae also grows so fast, it can produce 15,000 gallons of biodiesel per acre. Just 60 gallons are produced from soybeans, which along with corn are the major biodiesel crops today. Greenfuel isn't alone in the algae-to-oil race. Last month, Greenshift Corporation, a Mount Arlington, N.J., technology incubator company, licensed CO2-gobbling algae technology that uses a screen-like algal filter. It was developed by David Bayless, a researcher at Ohio University. A prototype is capable of handling 140 cubic meters of flue gas per minute, an amount equal to the exhaust from 50 cars or a 3-megawatt power plant, Greenshift said in a statement. For his part, Berzin calculates that just one 1,000 megawatt power plant using his system could produce more than 40 million gallons of biodiesel and 50 million gallons of ethanol a year. That would require a 2,000-acre "farm" of algae-filled tubes near the power plant. There are nearly 1,000 power plants nationwide with enough space nearby for a few hundred to a few thousand acres to grow algae and make a good profit, he says. Energy security advocates like the idea because algae can reduce US dependence on foreign oil. "There's a lot of interest in algae right now," says John Sheehan, who helped lead the National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) research project into using algae on smokestack emissions until budget cuts ended the program in 1996. In 1990, Sheehan's NREL program calculated that just 15,000 square miles of desert (the Sonoran desert in California and Arizona is more than eight times that size) could grow enough algae to replace nearly all of the nation's current diesel requirements. "I've had quite a few phone calls recently about it," says Mr. Sheehan. "This is not an outlandish idea at all." ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

from the January 11, 2006 edition

Algae - like a breath mint for smokestacks

By Mark Clayton | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

BOSTON - Isaac Berzin is a big fan of algae. The tiny, single-celled plant, he says, could transform the world's energy needs and cut global warming.

Overshadowed by a multibillion-dollar push into other "clean-coal" technologies, a handful of tiny companies are racing to create an even cleaner, greener process using the same slimy stuff that thrives in the world's oceans.

Enter Dr. Berzin, a rocket scientist at Massachusetts Institute of Technology. About three years ago, while working on an experiment for growing algae on the International Space Station, he came up with the idea for using it to clean up power-plant exhaust.

If he could find the right strain of algae, he figured he could turn the nation's greenhouse-gas-belching power plants into clean-green generators with an attached algae farm next door.

"This is a big idea," Berzin says, "a really powerful idea."

And one that's taken him to the top - a rooftop. Bolted onto the exhaust stacks of a brick-and-glass 20-megawatt power plant behind MIT's campus are rows of fat, clear tubes, each with green algae soup simmering inside.

Fed a generous helping of CO2-laden emissions, courtesy of the power plant's exhaust stack, the algae grow quickly even in the wan rays of a New England sun. The cleansed exhaust bubbles skyward, but with 40 percent less CO2 (a larger cut than the Kyoto treaty mandates) and another bonus: 86 percent less nitrous oxide.

After the CO2 is soaked up like a sponge, the algae is harvested daily. From that harvest, a combustible vegetable oil is squeezed out: biodiesel for automobiles. Berzin hands a visitor two vials - one with algal biodiesel, a clear, slightly yellowish liquid, the other with the dried green flakes that remained. Even that dried remnant can be further reprocessed to create ethanol, also used for transportation.

Being a good Samaritan on air quality usually costs a bundle. But Berzin's pitch is one hard-nosed utility executives and climate-change skeptics might like: It can make a tidy profit.

"You want to do good for the environment, of course, but we're not forcing people to do it for that reason - and that's the key," says the founder of GreenFuel Technologies, in Cambridge, Mass. "We're showing them how they can help the environment and make money at the same time."

GreenFuel has already garnered $11 million in venture capital funding and is conducting a field trial at a 1,000 megawatt power plant owned by a major southwestern power company. Next year, GreenFuel expects two to seven more such demo projects scaling up to a full pro- duction system by 2009.

Even though it's early yet, and may be a long shot, "the technology is quite fascinating," says Barry Worthington, executive director of US Energy Association in Washington, which represents electric utilities, government agencies, and the oil and gas industry.

One key is selecting an algae with a high oil density - about 50 percent of its weight. Because this kind of algae also grows so fast, it can produce 15,000 gallons of biodiesel per acre. Just 60 gallons are produced from soybeans, which along with corn are the major biodiesel crops today.

Greenfuel isn't alone in the algae-to-oil race. Last month, Greenshift Corporation, a Mount Arlington, N.J., technology incubator company, licensed CO2-gobbling algae technology that uses a screen-like algal filter. It was developed by David Bayless, a researcher at Ohio University.

A prototype is capable of handling 140 cubic meters of flue gas per minute, an amount equal to the exhaust from 50 cars or a 3-megawatt power plant, Greenshift said in a statement.

For his part, Berzin calculates that just one 1,000 megawatt power plant using his system could produce more than 40 million gallons of biodiesel and 50 million gallons of ethanol a year. That would require a 2,000-acre "farm" of algae-filled tubes near the power plant. There are nearly 1,000 power plants nationwide with enough space nearby for a few hundred to a few thousand acres to grow algae and make a good profit, he says.

Energy security advocates like the idea because algae can reduce US dependence on foreign oil. "There's a lot of interest in algae right now," says John Sheehan, who helped lead the National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) research project into using algae on smokestack emissions until budget cuts ended the program in 1996.

In 1990, Sheehan's NREL program calculated that just 15,000 square miles of desert (the Sonoran desert in California and Arizona is more than eight times that size) could grow enough algae to replace nearly all of the nation's current diesel requirements.

"I've had quite a few phone calls recently about it," says Mr. Sheehan. "This is not an outlandish idea at all."

 
 
 
 
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 7 05:23:34 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k67CK7Q1019104; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 05:23:03 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k67C99cg011603; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 05:09:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 05:09:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-CVTV-Spamfilter: Scanned X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Virus-Scanned: by McAfee Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <001001c6a1be$1c38a3d0$0100007f xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: [VO]:Re:[VO] Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 07:08:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C6A194.1B0FA640"; type="multipart/alternative" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: <-wM69B.A.P1C.l7krEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69520 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C6A194.1B0FA640 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000D_01C6A194.1B112CE0" ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C6A194.1B112CE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankFred wrote An article in the CSM quoted.. If he could find the right strain of algae,.. "This is a big idea," Berzin says, "a really powerful idea." GreenFuel has already garnered $11 million in venture capital funding. Howdy Fred.. I was ready to pony up some money for penny stocks until I counted the = number of "ifs". Why do I keep thinking the guy that sells sawdust cakes = in fancy soap wrappers is back in town. Gosh ! Get in line quick. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C6A194.1B112CE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Fred wrote
 
An article in the CSM quoted..
 
If he could find the right strain of algae,..

"This is a big idea," Berzin says, "a really powerful = idea."

GreenFuel has already garnered $11 million in venture capital = funding.

 

Howdy Fred..

I was ready to pony up some money for penny stocks until I counted = the number=20 of "ifs". Why do I keep thinking the guy that sells sawdust cakes in = fancy soap=20 wrappers is back in town. Gosh ! Get in line quick.

Richard

------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C6A194.1B112CE0-- ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C6A194.1B0FA640 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000b01c6a1be$03d35ec0$0100007f xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C6A194.1B0FA640-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 7 06:29:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k67DSZxs000453; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 06:28:36 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k67DSTYN000405; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 06:28:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 06:28:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=bZp9JU2SPAQCu/uWFCJQkg3mYYxXfwRWOj4nNKDiCH/puGNpCyf2TvEth2SP2AxF; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <411-2200675713283778 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: RE: [VO]:Re:[VO] Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 07:28:03 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940ec2a83e239bc5a3d7b473413bb177c29350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.135 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69521 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII These figures are impressive enough for me, Richard. Even at a fraction of that yield, it's far ahead of anything you might try to conjure up. Fred http://www.greenfuelonline.com/technology.htm "Building on many years of work sponsored by the DOE and international agencies, GFT installed its first field unit on a 20 MW cogeneration facility at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in 2004. Its second, larger unit was commissioned at a 1,060 MW combined cycle facility in 2005 in the southwest United States. The bioreactor productivities suggest annual yields of 5,000-10,000 gallons of biodiesel and a comparable amount of bioethanol per acre." ----- Original Message ----- From: RC Macaulay To: vortex-l eskimo.com Sent: 7/7/2006 6:10:08 AM Subject: [VO]:Re:[VO] Fred wrote An article in the CSM quoted.. If he could find the right strain of algae,.. "This is a big idea," Berzin says, "a really powerful idea." GreenFuel has already garnered $11 million in venture capital funding. Howdy Fred.. I was ready to pony up some money for penny stocks until I counted the number of "ifs". Why do I keep thinking the guy that sells sawdust cakes in fancy soap wrappers is back in town. Gosh ! Get in line quick. Richard ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Blank
These figures are impressive enough for me, Richard.
 
Even at a fraction of that yield, it's far ahead of anything
you might try to conjure up.
 
Fred
 
 
"Building on many years of work sponsored by the DOE and international agencies, GFT installed its first field unit on a 20 MW cogeneration facility at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in 2004. Its second, larger unit was commissioned at a 1,060 MW combined cycle facility in 2005 in the southwest United States. The bioreactor productivities suggest annual yields of 5,000-10,000 gallons of biodiesel and a comparable amount of bioethanol per acre."
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 7/7/2006 6:10:08 AM
Subject: [VO]:Re:[VO]

Fred wrote
 
An article in the CSM quoted..
 
If he could find the right strain of algae,..

"This is a big idea," Berzin says, "a really powerful idea."

GreenFuel has already garnered $11 million in venture capital funding.

 

Howdy Fred..

I was ready to pony up some money for penny stocks until I counted the number of "ifs". Why do I keep thinking the guy that sells sawdust cakes in fancy soap wrappers is back in town. Gosh ! Get in line quick.

Richard

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- ------=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: Blank Bkgrd.gif Content-Id: <410-220067571327468041 13071999> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 7 07:13:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k67ED25i004567; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 07:13:03 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k67ECxDU004527; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 07:12:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 07:12:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <004e01c6a1cf$72369600$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <411-2200675713283778 earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 07:12:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69522 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: BioDiesel Status: O X-Status: BlankNREL and MIT and others (who should know, and are somewhat reliable) are telling us that Algae will produce a minimum of 5000 gallons per year per acre of biodiesel. After reading this, I went to get some Java and on return my PC screensaver had kicked in. It was a satellite shot of Western Mexico and Baja California, and conspicuous is the "green anomaly" - the area at the top of the Gulf of Cortez, where the Colorado River enters the Gulf. A vast area of shallow water here is always colored bright green - from the Algae. The Colorado river by this time is as thick as mud, and it must be prime algae-feritlizer. The water is so brightly colored here compared to the dark blue of the ocean that it is strikingingly beautiful. The average temperature here is extremely hot, even for Mexico - 100F in January is common. Doing a rough calculation of the area of the Algae bloom, it works out to about 10 thousand square miles. There are 640 acres per mi^2 so this over 6 million acres of intense algae in perpetual year-round bloom. Even using the most conservative figure of 5000 gallons/acre that should produce over 30 billion gallons yearly, and perhaps 60 billion due to the prime location. If the wholesale price is a buck-per ... well... Who says that Mexico has an endemic debt problem? Jones From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 7 08:05:06 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k67F4bN0005524; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 08:04:37 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k67F4Ymf005495; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 08:04:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 08:04:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=NLcWZL5aJnVM/Vhrye3fJa4B4BcyOfonCEiF7RnQr8rL3/fMUgeRmAdjUhHvrhKX; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <411-22006757144216806 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: RE: [VO]:Re:[VO] Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 08:42:16 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9403b9928d9be343c77a4d1ca1bb4743351350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.237 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69523 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII According to this Greenshift blurb, Greenfuels is using a heat tolerant species of algae found in the hot springs of Yellowstone. http://www.greenshift.com/technologies.php?show=3p#3p ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l eskimo.comSent: 7/7/2006 7:29:37 AM Subject: RE: [VO]:Re:[VO ]http://www.greenfuelonline.com/technology.htm "Building on many years of work sponsored by the DOE and international agencies, GFT installed its first field unit on a 20 MW cogeneration facility at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in 2004. Its second, larger unit was commissioned at a 1,060 MW combined cycle facility in 2005 in the southwest United States. The bioreactor productivities suggest annual yields of 5,000-10,000 gallons of biodiesel and a comparable amount of bioethanol per acre." ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Blank
According to this Greenshift blurb, Greenfuels is using a heat tolerant
species of algae  found in the hot springs of Yellowstone.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
To: vortex-l@eskimo.comSent: 7/7/2006 7:29:37 AM
Subject: RE: [VO]:Re:[VO
 
 
"Building on many years of work sponsored by the DOE and international agencies, GFT installed its first field unit on a 20 MW cogeneration facility at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in 2004. Its second, larger unit was commissioned at a 1,060 MW combined cycle facility in 2005 in the southwest United States. The bioreactor productivities suggest annual yields of 5,000-10,000 gallons of biodiesel and a comparable amount of bioethanol per acre."
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 7 09:11:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k67GBSXa015680; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 09:11:28 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k67GBPcr015651; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 09:11:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 09:11:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=cORUlwdshHdPHAvvfSUJi/xNDQGXc4k/OPIYLB0btk//Vwit5eZ/R5jXls147Ntm; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006757161113656 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:11:13 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940473d2778947b2a387e5cfb61ecdafc66350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.163 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69524 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: O.T. Bearly Legal Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII http://abcnews.go.com/US/print?id=2157996 Tahoe Bear Swills Beer With Pizza Snack Tahoe Bear Polishes Off a Pizza and a Bottle of Beer Sitting in Vintage Convertible The Associated Press STATELINE, Nev. - A bear cub drew a crowd of spectators at a Lake Tahoe neighborhood as it munched on barbecue-chicken-and-jalapeno pizza in the back seat of a vintage red Buick convertible. It also apparently washed it down with a swig of a Jack Daniel's mixer, an Absolut vodka and tonic, and a beer taken from a cooler, the vehicle's owner said. About 30 people watched the cub lumber around a parking lot in upper Kingbury Grade on Sunday before it homed in on the Buick and the spicy pizza on the floor. The bruin was unfazed by the car's horn the blew nonstop as the cub pressed the seat into the steering wheel. "The bear was loping along in the parking lot and then decides to get inside the car," said resident Jerry Patterson. "People were screaming at him, the horn was going off, but he was completely unaware. He did what he wanted to do and the people didn't matter." The bear remained inside the 1964 Buick Skylark for about 20 minutes and at times put his paws on the dash as if he were holding on for a ride, Patterson said. The owner of the car, David Ziello of South Lake Tahoe, said the bruin didn't cause any damage, but slopped cheese and jalapenos on the seats and floor. Carl Lackey, a biologist with the Nevada Department of Wildlife, said up to two dozen bears live in the Kingsbury region near the south shore of Lake Tahoe. The residential area sees more of them because the bears have found a primary source from Dumpsters and people who leave their food and trash in the open, said Lackey, who tracks and relocates bears on the Nevada side of the Tahoe basin. Lackey warned visitors and residents against keeping food inside their vehicles. "When you are in bear habitat, regardless of the time of year, you cannot leave any kind of food out whether it's food inside the car, trash inside or outside your car, or pet food," Lackey said. "Bears will find it and in doing so, it is increasing your chances of serious conflict." Information from: Tahoe Daily Tribune, http://tahoe.com/tribune ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

http://abcnews.go.com/US/print?id=2157996

Tahoe Bear Swills Beer With Pizza Snack

Tahoe Bear Polishes Off a Pizza and a Bottle of Beer Sitting in Vintage Convertible

The Associated Press

STATELINE, Nev. - A bear cub drew a crowd of spectators at a Lake Tahoe neighborhood as it munched on barbecue-chicken-and-jalapeno pizza in the back seat of a vintage red Buick convertible.

It also apparently washed it down with a swig of a Jack Daniel's mixer, an Absolut vodka and tonic, and a beer taken from a cooler, the vehicle's owner said.

About 30 people watched the cub lumber around a parking lot in upper Kingbury Grade on Sunday before it homed in on the Buick and the spicy pizza on the floor.

The bruin was unfazed by the car's horn the blew nonstop as the cub pressed the seat into the steering wheel.

"The bear was loping along in the parking lot and then decides to get inside the car," said resident Jerry Patterson.

"People were screaming at him, the horn was going off, but he was completely unaware. He did what he wanted to do and the people didn't matter."

The bear remained inside the 1964 Buick Skylark for about 20 minutes and at times put his paws on the dash as if he were holding on for a ride, Patterson said.

The owner of the car, David Ziello of South Lake Tahoe, said the bruin didn't cause any damage, but slopped cheese and jalapenos on the seats and floor.

Carl Lackey, a biologist with the Nevada Department of Wildlife, said up to two dozen bears live in the Kingsbury region near the south shore of Lake Tahoe.

The residential area sees more of them because the bears have found a primary source from Dumpsters and people who leave their food and trash in the open, said Lackey, who tracks and relocates bears on the Nevada side of the Tahoe basin.

Lackey warned visitors and residents against keeping food inside their vehicles.

"When you are in bear habitat, regardless of the time of year, you cannot leave any kind of food out whether it's food inside the car, trash inside or outside your car, or pet food," Lackey said.

"Bears will find it and in doing so, it is increasing your chances of serious conflict."

Information from: Tahoe Daily Tribune, http://tahoe.com/tribune

 
 
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 7 10:25:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k67HPOxu000981; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:25:24 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k67HPIne000946; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:25:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:25:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=fPPHOlTWW7d3nie5ySDSPWTqjHf+gNHgCBDFGgfsRiDm8tnnJhCS8oKM6R+mmaDi; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200675717258675 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 11:25:08 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9401bf696f32b9a8ac3539d4f1d45ce7ba7350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.165.186 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69525 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: National Biodiesel Board Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Their leader was interviewed on Fox News regarding the hazards of making your own Biodiesel. http://www.biodiesel.org/ "The National Biodiesel Board (NBB) is the national trade association representing the biodiesel industry as the coordinating body for research and development in the United States." ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

Their leader was interviewed on Fox News regarding
the hazards of making your own Biodiesel.
 
 
"The National Biodiesel Board (NBB) is the national trade association representing the biodiesel industry
as the coordinating body for research and development in the United States."

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 7 11:01:34 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k67I1E32022063; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 11:01:15 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k67I1C9G022036; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 11:01:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 11:01:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <009e01c6a1ee$646a6320$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" References: <410-2200675717258675 earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:54:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69526 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: National Biodiesel Board Status: O X-Status: The main hazard being - err... the bank balance of the "industry" ?? And yep, pretty soon it may be illegal in some areas - too dangerous for non-professionals ? But the expert - Willie N - sez - grow your own: http://www.wnbiodiesel.com/ Remember the "victory garden"? And --- talk about a real (non-profit) prophet: In 1911 Rudolf Diesel said to a disbelieving world : "The diesel engine can be fed with vegetable oil and would help considerably in the development of agriculture of the countries which use it." Of course crude oil was pennies per gallon then, so who wanted to go to the trouble? That economic reality finally dawned on Rudy. Ergo, in 1912, Diesel predicted, a bit more pragmatically "the use of vegetable oils for engine fuels may seem insignificant today. But such oils may become in course of time as important as petroleum and the coal tar products of the present time." Has time run its course? ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber Subject: National Biodiesel Board Their leader was interviewed on Fox News regarding the hazards of making your own Biodiesel. http://www.biodiesel.org/ "The National Biodiesel Board (NBB) is the national trade association representing the biodiesel industry as the coordinating body for research and development in the United States." From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 7 11:04:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k67I4DK7024673; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 11:04:13 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k67I49cc024625; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 11:04:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 11:04:08 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: "Anthony" To: Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 13:03:46 -0500 Message-ID: <005b01c6a1ef$b1c12a40$0601a8c0 STUFFMARTUSA2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005C_01C6A1C5.C8EB2240" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <410-2200675717258675 earthlink.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69527 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Calloway Engines was V-track.. Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005C_01C6A1C5.C8EB2240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hey Guys, Harry gave a website for Calloway's Engines regarding that V-track thing I brought up a few days ago.. has anybody found instructions on how to create your own track? I've been looking but haven't found anything that I can understand yet. Regarding the Perendev device.. you know at first I was excited thinking that it was a go.. but now I'm beginning to rethink that. I'm wondering how he got that one device to run in the video, but as far as getting it to work in my head (much cheaper than trying to make it work in real life) everything seems to balance out to zero, no motion at all. One of you emailed me offlist saying that you have a working model. I'm interested because in my head, it won't work. Can you show me how it worked? Are you willing to divulge that information? Here's why it won't work, at least to me. First, the idea behind the Perendev, as I understand it, is that the repelling magnets in the outer ring push against the magnets in the inner ring to create spin being offset. Then once one rotor spins, that should shift the 2nd rotor to spin out of place putting that 2nd rotor into a repelling spot thus pushing the 2nd rotor, to push the 3rd rotor out of place and the cycle goes on and on and on, indefinitely.. what doesn't work in my head is the first spin.. since the magnets in the 2nd rotor and third rotor are already being pushed against in their current positions causing no spin at all as shown in this video... http://stream.osen.org/aag/Perendev-Bedini-340kbps.wmv?MSWMExt=.asf If you'll notice, Mr. Sterling says right up front in the video that his Perendev model is just "an expensive toy". I can see now why. I'm interested though in the Calloway thing to see if that really works. It seems that it does, but I'm not sure if that car is moving on account of the magnets under and on it, or if maybe that's a trick of the perception.. Anybody able to help? Thanks! Anthony ------=_NextPart_000_005C_01C6A1C5.C8EB2240 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
hey=20 Guys,
 
Harry gave a=20 website for Calloway's Engines regarding that V-track thing I brought up = a few=20 days ago.. has anybody found instructions on how to create your own = track? =20 I've been looking but haven't found anything that I can understand yet.=20
 
Regarding the=20 Perendev device.. you know at first I was excited thinking that it was a = go..=20 but now I'm beginning to rethink that.  I'm wondering how he got = that one=20 device to run in the video, but as far as getting it to work in my head = (much=20 cheaper than trying to make it work in real life) everything seems to = balance=20 out to zero, no motion at all. 
 
One of you=20 emailed me offlist saying that you have a working model.  I'm = interested=20 because in my head, it won't work.  Can you show me how it = worked? =20 Are you willing to divulge that information? 
 
Here's why it=20 won't work, at least to me.  First, the idea behind the Perendev, = as I=20 understand it, is that the repelling magnets in the outer ring push = against=20 the magnets in the inner ring to create spin being offset.  Then = once one=20 rotor spins, that should shift the 2nd rotor to spin out of place = putting that=20 2nd rotor into a repelling spot thus pushing the 2nd rotor, to push the = 3rd=20 rotor out of place and the cycle goes on and on and on, indefinitely.. = what=20 doesn't work in my head is the first spin.. since the magnets in the 2nd = rotor=20 and third rotor are already being pushed against in their current = positions=20 causing no spin at all as shown in this video...
 
http://stream.osen.org/aag/Perendev-Bedini-340kbps.wmv?MSWMExt=3D.a= sf
 
If you'll=20 notice, Mr. Sterling says right up front in the video that his Perendev = model is=20 just "an expensive toy".  I can see now why.  =
 
I'm=20 interested though in the Calloway thing to see if that really = works.  It=20 seems that it does, but I'm not sure if that car is moving on account of = the=20 magnets under and on it, or if maybe that's a trick of the perception..=20
 
Anybody able=20 to help?
 
Thanks!
Anthony
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_005C_01C6A1C5.C8EB2240-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 7 16:46:04 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k67Njmrr029946; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 16:45:48 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k67NjjFT029906; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 16:45:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 16:45:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Bell, Bang and Entangle Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 09:45:30 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <8C869E15FF247BB-1C38-8CC2 mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> <8C86AC3151DDE2B-1FC4-C2A3@mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> <8C86E48555E8C92-1B80-15828@mblkn-m17.sysops.aol.com> <8C86EA3446955CD-241C-1B892@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> <8C86EA546E86F14-241C-1B8F6@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C86EA546E86F14-241C-1B8F6 mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta01ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.71.48] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Fri, 7 Jul 2006 23:45:30 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k67NjZpL029463 Resent-Message-ID: <7gAK-C.A.HTH.oIvrEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69528 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to hohlrauml6d netscape.net's message of Wed, 05 Jul 2006 19:52:58 -0400: Hi, [snip] >TB: I understand your position. Intuitively, I agree with you with >great glee. It is identical to Einstein, Podolsky and Rosen. However, >the data shows that the Bell Inequalities exist. Here's a good >explanation:  >  >http://www.ncsu.edu/felder-public/kenny/papers/bell.html  I read through this carefully, and initially also came up with 5/9 as the correct probability, however that is based upon the "happiness" of electrons. Unfortunately, I don't believe in electron happiness. The experiment has been personalized in an attempt to make it more understandable, however in the process key features of the source, of the electrons themselves, and of the detector have all been swept under the carpet. This makes it impossible to determine whether or not the conclusion reached is the only possible conclusion. It does however make an entertaining description of the status quo. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 7 16:55:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k67Nso5S005324; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 16:54:50 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k67NslkW005293; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 16:54:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 16:54:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Bell, Bang and Entangle Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 09:54:42 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <8C869E15FF247BB-1C38-8CC2 mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> <8C86AC3151DDE2B-1FC4-C2A3@mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> <8C86E48555E8C92-1B80-15828@mblkn-m17.sysops.aol.com> <8C86EA3446955CD-241C-1B892@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> <8C86EA546E86F14-241C-1B8F6@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C86EA546E86F14-241C-1B8F6 mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta03ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.71.48] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Fri, 7 Jul 2006 23:54:42 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k67NsfKi005266 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69529 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to hohlrauml6d netscape.net's message of Wed, 05 Jul 2006 19:52:58 -0400: Hi, [snip] >TB: That is the simple answer; but, it does not jive with current SQM >experiments. In this case, we are speaking of *single* photon >interference patterns. I'm not even sure there is such a thing. OTOH it's also possible that a photon can *only* interfere with itself (i.e. not with any other photon). It's also possible that there is no such thing as a photon. >They create interference patterns because of >Feynman's "sum of histories" concept. No, they were doing it long before Feynman was born. ;^) >The interference pattern is a >result of the probabilites that the photon can follow either path with >a certain probability. When the photon path is known, the photon does >not go away. The photon is detected at the convergence point; however, >it is detected as a particle. It is not stopped at the detector. No, only photons that were not detected at all (at either slit) reach the convergence point, unless you start out with a very energetic photon which loses some energy at the first detector, and is consequently also scattered in the process.(BTW you appear to have two detectors here). [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 7 16:59:01 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k67NweCG007411; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 16:58:40 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k67NwZNH007378; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 16:58:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 16:58:35 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Bell, Bang and Entangle Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 09:58:28 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <14tta2t5nnd1i185a22dfmalfdllpjah4j 4ax.com> References: <8C869E15FF247BB-1C38-8CC2 mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> <8C86AC3151DDE2B-1FC4-C2A3@mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> <8C86E48555E8C92-1B80-15828@mblkn-m17.sysops.aol.com> <8C86EA3446955CD-241C-1B892@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> <8C86EA50C1865A1-241C-1B8F0@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> <8C86EA55A42BD82-241C-1B8FC@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C86EA55A42BD82-241C-1B8FC mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta01ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.71.48] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Fri, 7 Jul 2006 23:58:28 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k67NwSUn007314 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69530 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to hohlrauml6d netscape.net's message of Wed, 05 Jul 2006 19:53:30 -0400: Hi, [snip] >I really meant to say that the inequalities do not exist. If JB's >theory, the three axis spin probabilities should show that the >deterministic case of EPR indicate red/green flashes >= 5/9; however, >the data from millions of tests indicate the correlation to be exactly >50%. The correlation of states cannot possibly be predeterministic. The >electrons do not "know" their spin state upon creation.  Are you saying that the experiment proves that "The correlation of states cannot possibly be predeterministic", or are you saying that the spin state upon creation of the pair is not fixed (IYO)? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 7 17:21:35 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k680LG4M026244; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 17:21:17 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k680LDDM026214; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 17:21:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 17:21:13 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 20:21:05 -0400 Message-Id: <8C8703B898E019F-1FC4-1F550 mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <8C869E15FF247BB-1C38-8CC2 mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> <8C86AC3151DDE2B-1FC4-C2A3@mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> <8C86E48555E8C92-1B80-15828@mblkn-m17.sysops.aol.com> <8C86EA3446955CD-241C-1B892@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> <8C86EA546E86F14-241C-1B8F6@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Bell, Bang and Entangle Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.130 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69532 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Robin van Spaandonk It's also possible that there is no such thing as a photon. <><><><><> Agreed. However, one must know where one is in order to get to where one wants to be. Depending on what 'is' 'is'. T From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 7 17:23:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k680K3Sv025637; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 17:22:48 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k680JBw9024897; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 17:19:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 17:19:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 20:19:00 -0400 Message-Id: <8C8703B3EE67ECF-1FC4-1F546 mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <8C869E15FF247BB-1C38-8CC2 mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> <8C86AC3151DDE2B-1FC4-C2A3@mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> <8C86E48555E8C92-1B80-15828@mblkn-m17.sysops.aol.com> <8C86EA3446955CD-241C-1B892@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> <8C86EA546E86F14-241C-1B8F6@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Bell, Bang and Entangle Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.130 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69531 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Robin van Spaandonk It does however make an entertaining description of the status quo. <><><><><> My only point. Actually, the SQ has progressed somewhat. T From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 7 17:24:00 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k680NaLm029503; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 17:23:37 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k680NVRq029453; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 17:23:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 17:23:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 20:23:24 -0400 Message-Id: <8C8703BDC0F5F82-1FC4-1F589 mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <8C869E15FF247BB-1C38-8CC2 mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> <8C86AC3151DDE2B-1FC4-C2A3@mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> <8C86E48555E8C92-1B80-15828@mblkn-m17.sysops.aol.com> <8C86EA3446955CD-241C-1B892@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> <8C86EA50C1865A1-241C-1B8F0@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> <8C86EA55A42BD82-241C-1B8FC@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> <14tta2t5nnd1i185a22dfmalfdllpjah4j@4ax.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <14tta2t5nnd1i185a22dfmalfdllpjah4j 4ax.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Subject: Re: [Vo]: Bell, Bang and Entangle Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.130 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69533 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Robin van Spaandonk Are you saying that the experiment proves that "The correlation of states cannot possibly be predeterministic", or are you saying that the spin state upon creation of the pair is not fixed (IYO)? <><><><><> IYO? I do not know enough to have developed an opinion. SQM says the spin states are not fixed. There are several physicists who cannot accept this (like us). Read Bohm's explanation for one. T From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 7 17:25:03 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k680OeQq030743; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 17:24:41 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k680ObI3030694; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 17:24:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 17:24:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 20:24:31 -0400 Message-Id: <8C8703C03EB9F7A-1FC4-1F590 mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <8C869E15FF247BB-1C38-8CC2 mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> <8C86AC3151DDE2B-1FC4-C2A3@mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> <8C86E48555E8C92-1B80-15828@mblkn-m17.sysops.aol.com> <8C86EA3446955CD-241C-1B892@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> <8C86EA546E86F14-241C-1B8F6@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> <8C8703B898E019F-1FC4-1F550@mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <8C8703B898E019F-1FC4-1F550 mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Bell, Bang and Entangle Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.130 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k680OZT3030670 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69534 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I said:   Depending on what 'is' 'is'.  <><><><><> Change that to: Depending on what 'is' is. T From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 7 17:29:08 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k680StXJ001894; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 17:28:55 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k680Srb4001876; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 17:28:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 17:28:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <012001c6a225$7d129fa0$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <8C869E15FF247BB-1C38-8CC2 mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> <8C86AC3151DDE2B-1FC4-C2A3@mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> <8C86E48555E8C92-1B80-15828@mblkn-m17.sysops.aol.com> <8C86EA3446955CD-241C-1B892@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> <8C86EA546E86F14-241C-1B8F6@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> <8C8703B898E019F-1FC4-1F550@mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 17:28:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69535 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Bell, Bang and Entangle Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- > From: Terry Blanton -- Robin van Spaandonk > It's also possible that there is no such thing as a photon. This is Don Hotson's contention. I would not attempt to argue with Don on any point in his excellent essays -except to say that there are probably more "dualities" out there in the wide-wide world of fizzix than just wave/particle (especially in point-of-view) - not to mention of the anti-semantic variety. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 7 17:56:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k680tpF1019714; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 17:55:51 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k680tLpJ019480; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 17:55:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 17:55:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060708005508569.8B0B81C00085 mwinf3007.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060708005509.00b9e55c pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 01:55:09 +0100 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Bell, Bang and Entangle Resent-Message-ID: <4r8cxC.A.MwE.1JwrEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69536 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 05:28 pm 07/07/2006 -0700, you wrote: > -----Original Message----- >> From: Terry Blanton -- Robin van Spaandonk > >> It's also possible that there is no such thing as a photon. > > >This is Don Hotson's contention. It was also Caroline T's opinion [Requiescat in pace] and no doubt many others. I like to think of the photon as a manifestation of activation energy, myself. Frank From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 7 18:05:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6815Dti030727; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 18:05:13 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6815Bhn030711; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 18:05:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 18:05:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Bell, Bang and Entangle Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 11:05:09 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <651ua29rt74rase2jmmf8ti9496v8nh51j 4ax.com> References: <8C86AC3151DDE2B-1FC4-C2A3@mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> <8C86E48555E8C92-1B80-15828@mblkn-m17.sysops.aol.com> <8C86EA3446955CD-241C-1B892@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> <8C86EA546E86F14-241C-1B8F6@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> <8C8703B898E019F-1FC4-1F550@mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C8703B898E019F-1FC4-1F550 mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta04ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.71.48] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Sat, 8 Jul 2006 01:05:08 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k68159Rr030658 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69537 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to hohlrauml6d netscape.net's message of Fri, 07 Jul 2006 20:21:05 -0400: Hi, [snip] >Agreed. However, one must know where one is in order to get to where >one wants to be. [snip] IOW we build castles in the air. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 7 18:17:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k681H9Fj005568; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 18:17:09 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k681H7oq005541; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 18:17:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 18:17:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Bell, Bang and Entangle Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 11:17:00 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <8C86AC3151DDE2B-1FC4-C2A3 mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> <8C86E48555E8C92-1B80-15828@mblkn-m17.sysops.aol.com> <8C86EA3446955CD-241C-1B892@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> <8C86EA50C1865A1-241C-1B8F0@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> <8C86EA55A42BD82-241C-1B8FC@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> <14tta2t5nnd1i185a22dfmalfdllpjah4j@4ax.com> <8C8703BDC0F5F82-1FC4-1F589@mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C8703BDC0F5F82-1FC4-1F589 mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta05ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.71.48] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Sat, 8 Jul 2006 01:16:59 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k681H3Nv005457 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69538 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to hohlrauml6d netscape.net's message of Fri, 07 Jul 2006 20:23:24 -0400: Hi, [snip] >IYO? I do not know enough to have developed an opinion. SQM says the >spin states are not fixed. There are several physicists who cannot >accept this (like us). Read Bohm's explanation for one. IMO they are both fixed and correlated, though unknown. IOW whatever spin state the one has, the other has the opposite (from conservation of angular momentum I think), but the actual axis of rotation could be in any direction relative to the source, or not, the latter depending on exactly what happens in the source. This is one of the pieces of missing information. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 7 18:28:04 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k681Rd3L016289; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 18:27:39 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k681Rcpr016274; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 18:27:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 18:27:38 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: BioDiesel Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 11:27:23 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <8d2ua2t2fdup8bjre6f1l1kdo7udkjr40r 4ax.com> References: <411-2200675713283778 earthlink.net> <004e01c6a1cf$72369600$6401a8c0@NuDell> In-Reply-To: <004e01c6a1cf$72369600$6401a8c0 NuDell> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta05ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.71.48] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Sat, 8 Jul 2006 01:27:23 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k681RZIm016249 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69539 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Jones Beene's message of Fri, 7 Jul 2006 07:12:56 -0700: Hi, [snip] >Doing a rough calculation of the area of the Algae bloom, it works >out to about 10 thousand square miles. There are 640 acres per >mi^2 so this over 6 million acres of intense algae in perpetual >year-round bloom. Even using the most conservative figure of 5000 >gallons/acre that should produce over 30 billion gallons yearly, >and perhaps 60 billion due to the prime location. ...which works out to about 10-20% of US consumption (if memory serves correctly). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 7 18:45:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k681eIpa023325; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 18:40:18 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k681eD1P023268; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 18:40:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 18:40:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <017401c6a22f$70231db0$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <411-2200675713283778 earthlink.net> <004e01c6a1cf$72369600$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8d2ua2t2fdup8bjre6f1l1kdo7udkjr40r@4ax.com> Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 18:40:04 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69540 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: BioDiesel Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin van Spaandonk" > ...which works out to about 10-20% of US consumption (if memory > serves correctly) The Amazon (Nile, Mississippi etc) delta areas are surely much more fertile for algae - at least potentially (may need seeding) - but in any of these situations - how does one efficiently "strain" or filter that much water to remove the algae? Perhaps it is takes more energy to filter out the algae than you get from the process. Jones From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 7 18:48:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k681mJjo027804; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 18:48:19 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k681mHML027784; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 18:48:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 18:48:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 21:48:05 -0400 Message-Id: <8C87047B098612F-1118-2B64F mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <8C86AC3151DDE2B-1FC4-C2A3@mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> <8C86E48555E8C92-1B80-15828@mblkn-m17.sysops.aol.com> <8C86EA3446955CD-241C-1B892@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> <8C86EA546E86F14-241C-1B8F6@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> <8C8703B898E019F-1FC4-1F550@mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> <651ua29rt74rase2jmmf8ti9496v8nh51j@4ax.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <651ua29rt74rase2jmmf8ti9496v8nh51j 4ax.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Bell, Bang and Entangle Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.138 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69541 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Robin van Spaandonk IOW we build castles in the air. <><><><><> :-) One of those hierarchical airs, IMO. ;-) T From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 7 19:03:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k68204le007870; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 19:02:50 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k681uoDb004730; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 18:56:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 18:56:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: BioDiesel Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 11:56:39 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <411-2200675713283778 earthlink.net> <004e01c6a1cf$72369600$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8d2ua2t2fdup8bjre6f1l1kdo7udkjr40r@4ax.com> <017401c6a22f$70231db0$6401a8c0@NuDell> In-Reply-To: <017401c6a22f$70231db0$6401a8c0 NuDell> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta04ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.71.48] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Sat, 8 Jul 2006 01:56:39 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k681uea8004658 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69542 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Jones Beene's message of Fri, 7 Jul 2006 18:40:04 -0700: Hi, [snip] >The Amazon (Nile, Mississippi etc) delta areas are surely much >more fertile for algae - at least potentially (may need seeding) - >but in any of these situations - how does one efficiently "strain" >or filter that much water to remove the algae? Perhaps it is takes >more energy to filter out the algae than you get from the process. [snip] There is almost certainly more energy available than it takes to process the algae, however collection is another matter. However you might get lucky if a collector is placed downwind of the prevailing winds in the area. The wind may regularly blow the floating algae right into the collector. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 7 19:16:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k68264EC013745; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 19:06:04 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k68261IJ013698; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 19:06:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 19:06:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=ix.netcom.com; b=R2ih0jDKzeHdQ4C2NOuMa9u1l1e4jWS8XCRAOpFajSQLdLlCaycva4Q/ONYRB6hW; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <380-22006768261930 ix.netcom.com> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: aki ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.122.0 (Windows) From: "" To: "vortex-l" Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 19:06:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: c4cc7f5f697e8746f66dc3a06d5924d81d20c27d2acb823a96a966a7ee3f3b72350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 216.175.83.133 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69543 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: FW: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday July 7, 2006 Status: RO X-Status: forward by aki ix.netcom.com (Akira Kawasaki) > [Original Message] > From: What's New > To: Date: 7/7/2006 2:01:55 PM Subject: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday July 7, 2006 WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 7 Jul 06 Washington, DC 1. MISSILES: WHITE HOUSE SEEKS "PEACEFUL DIPLOMATIC SOLUTION." On Wednesday, North Korea launched a barrage of six missiles, ranging from "bottle rockets" to the fearsome Taepodong 2, which was to be capable of reaching the U.S. mainland. It plopped into the Sea of Japan, after traveling about one thousandth of the way to our mainland. In a televised news conference, President Bush, said this is an example of why "we need a ballistic missile [defense] system." Others might say it shows that our current missile defense system is perfectly matched to the threat. 2. ROCKETS RED GLARE: ALL SORTS OF FIREWORKS WERE GOING OFF. Tuesday, the shuttle Discovery was launched to the ISS, which is about one thousandth of the way to the moon. Still earlier, on Monday, a half-mile wide asteroid, 2004 XP14, missed Earth by only 269,000 miles, passing outside the moon's orbit. The only casualties of the week were 528 children admitted to emergency rooms for burns on their bare soles from stepping on burned out sparklers dropped in the grass (my figure is as reliable as the shuttle). 3. SCIENCE v. RELIGION: EXCOMMUNICATING STEM CELL RESEARCHERS? Destroying an embryo is equivalent to an abortion, according to Cardinal Trujillo who heads the Vatican's Pontifical Council for the Family. Pope Benedict XVI has not commented. As quoted in news nature.com , Cesare Galli of the Laboratory of Reproductive Technologies in Cremona, Italy, the first scientist to clone a horse, said: "I don't think scientists involved with embryonic stem-cell research would care if they are excommunicated or not." He may be right, but the question of when life begins has serious legal implications. Conservative Christians believe that the instant the male and female gametes fuse to form a single zygote cell a soul is assigned. Presto! Evidence of the soul is lacking, but a soul is said to be the essence of a person that survives the body. Our DNA can survive the body, but a person is more than their DNA. We are defined by memes as well as genes. Scientists argue that without a central nervous system to register pain and record memories, an embryo is not a person. 4. MARS: NAS REPORTS ON NASA'S PLANS FOR EXPLORATION OF MARS. The most compelling question in science is whether there is life to which we are not related. From the beginning of the space age the search has focused on Mars. It's been 30 years since Viking 1 & 2 landed to search for life. NASA's Mars Exploration Program in 2006 is, as it was in 1976, to understand whether Mars was, is, or can be, an abode of life. What is missing, and has been missing for three decades, is a sample return mission. What the NAS didn't say is that the most exciting discovery in the past decade is the abundance of extra-solar planets. What is needed to study those planets are space optical occulters. THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND. Opinions are the author's and not necessarily shared by the University of Maryland, but they should be. --- Archives of What's New can be found at http://www.bobpark.org What's New is moving to a different listserver and our subscription process has changed. To change your subscription status please visit this link: http://listserv.umd.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=bobparks-whatsnew&A=1 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 7 19:21:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k682LHC8028175; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 19:21:17 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k682LFWa028158; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 19:21:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 19:21:15 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 12:21:12 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <0j5ua2dvcns4hgedtdqpr0v1o5m0qs2nln 4ax.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta05sl.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.71.48] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Sat, 8 Jul 2006 02:21:11 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k682LCVN028101 Resent-Message-ID: <6s8yeB.A.u3G.baxrEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69544 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Water to H2 Status: O X-Status: Hi, Not sure whether or not this has recently been posted here. http://www.physorg.com/news70540915.html Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 7 21:12:01 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k684BfBC011146; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 21:11:41 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k684BcJ7011108; Fri, 7 Jul 2006 21:11:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 21:11:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 14:11:30 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta03ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.71.48] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Sat, 8 Jul 2006 04:11:29 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k684BUYB010987 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69545 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Shades of Farnsworth's fusor? Status: RO X-Status: Hi, It was reported that when Farnsworth's fusor was producing copious reactions the device became transparent. Now we have this:- http://www.physorg.com/news70619320.html Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 8 00:24:35 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k687O9Pk020648; Sat, 8 Jul 2006 00:24:10 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k687O64d020599; Sat, 8 Jul 2006 00:24:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 00:24:04 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 17:24:00 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta02ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.71.48] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Sat, 8 Jul 2006 07:24:00 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k687O193020502 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69546 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Joe Cell again Status: O X-Status: Hi, According to http://www.joecell.com.au/alexbook.html :- "For the initial start up from the Joe cell, an Aluminium V8 motor will not require any modifications apart from a change in timing as described in the previous sub-section. Other motors will require a varying time of " conditioning " before being finally ready to run on the Joe cell. Then you will have to change the ignition timing as described." Note that in an Al cylinder the reaction:- Al-27 + Hy -> Mg-24 + He-4 + 1.6 MeV may be possible, whereas in a steel cylinder the much higher central charge on the Fe atom effectively reduces the likelihood of many fusion reactions with the iron to very low levels such that only extremely severely shrunken hydrinos have a chance. IOW they need to hang around in the engine much longer before they are small enough, which may explain why steel engines require more conditioning. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 8 01:27:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k688RBMl028137; Sat, 8 Jul 2006 01:27:12 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k688R4dq028047; Sat, 8 Jul 2006 01:27:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 01:27:04 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=ljwcncWm60MsRvE1X4LQJECRGRv7qfIFSKhicQcC8hc8kiqfPpDxfCGMFn4uOieg; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200676882657863 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Cc: fstenger suite224.net Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 02:26:57 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9408474cf0d3b911c5ac8aa22b83e8ca9f2350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.223 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69547 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: FREE CAPACITORS Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Frank asked me to post this to the Vortex-L List. Fred > "Dear vortexians, I, Frank Stenger, former vortexian and ball lightning nut, have in my garage over one hundred large Sprague electrolytic capacitors. They are going to waste and I thought some of you might want some for experiments. These are high-rate, 350 volt, 6100 mfd units. Each cap stores a nominal 374 joules of energy. For my ball lightning work I used a bank of 144 caps in various connections to store about 54,000 joules for discharge experiments. I have also used 12 in parallel to "shoot" a forming coil to magnetize high-energy magnets. I DO NOT WANT to package and mail groups of these caps around the country, BUT, this being vacation time I thought some of you might be in my neighborhood this summer. If you are interested and you or a friend, relative, etc. are near the northeast corner of Ohio (I-90, near Ashtabula) I would be happy to put a bunch of these caps in your(their) vehicle to be carried off to the land of fringe science experiments. All I ask is that you use them for a noble purpose and not sell them except for food for your starving family. :O) Contact me at fstenger suite224.net and I can send you some pictures of the caps with their factory label - also specific instructions on finding Frank's garage. Put FREE CAPACITORS in any email subject line so I can tell it from spam. Yours, Frank Stenger" ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

Frank asked me to post this to the Vortex-L List.
 
Fred
>
"Dear vortexians, I, Frank Stenger, former vortexian and ball
lightning nut, have in my garage over one hundred large
Sprague electrolytic capacitors.  They are  going to waste
and I thought some of you might want some for experiments.
These are high-rate, 350 volt, 6100 mfd units.  Each cap
stores a nominal 374 joules of energy.  For my ball lightning
work I used a bank of 144 caps in various connections to
store about 54,000 joules for discharge experiments.
I have also used 12 in parallel to "shoot" a forming coil
to magnetize high-energy magnets.
I DO NOT WANT to package and mail groups of these caps
around the country, BUT, this being vacation time I thought
some of you might be in my neighborhood this summer.
If you are interested and you or a friend, relative, etc. are
near the northeast corner of Ohio (I-90, near Ashtabula)
I would be happy to put a bunch of these caps in your(their)
vehicle to be carried off to the land of fringe science
experiments.
All I ask is that you use them for a noble purpose and not
sell them except for food for your starving family.  :O)
Contact me at fstenger@suite224.net and I can send you
some pictures of the caps with their factory label - also
specific instructions on finding Frank's garage.
Put FREE CAPACITORS in any email subject line so I can
tell it from spam.
 
Yours, Frank Stenger"
 
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 8 05:38:16 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k68CbxLn017373; Sat, 8 Jul 2006 05:37:59 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k68CbvfA017343; Sat, 8 Jul 2006 05:37:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 05:37:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <001401c6a28b$536d3e60$640fa8c0 MIKEBY3NR533HT> From: "Mike Carrell" To: References: Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 08:27:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69549 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Shades of Farnsworth's fusor? Status: RO X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin van Spaandonk" Subject: [Vo]: Shades of Farnsworth's fusor? > Hi, > > It was reported that when Farnsworth's fusor was producing copious > reactions the device became transparent. Now we have this:- > > http://www.physorg.com/news70619320.html A physicist friend who roams in the shadowy world of very advanced electromagnetic theory told me that anecodotes of transparency are not unknown. You have to saturate the material with electrons so that the normal impedance mismatch that causes reflection and absorption changes and transparency occurs. Mike Carrell > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ > > Competition provides the motivation, > Cooperation provides the means. > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This Email has been scanned for all viruses by Medford Leas I.T. > Department. > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 8 06:41:14 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k68Df8QQ016377; Sat, 8 Jul 2006 06:41:09 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k68Df2qm016332; Sat, 8 Jul 2006 06:41:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 06:41:02 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=YV2sJ2D4X3+PYcQ4YG8EZ3XntpRw7ZFlIl3EKohuCovc9gDpSPV3mWGyuydix7Q9; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006768134052312 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [VO]:Re:[VO] Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 07:40:52 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9401b8fb268dd0b081348b247465de60f48350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.120 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69550 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In an interview the other day the CEO of GM was talking diesel up big. Fred Philip Winestone wrote. > > Biodiesel seems to be a very effective way to go, and this particular idea > is quite remarkable. > > There's one BIG question, though: Where are the diesel-powered vehicles? > > Oh - I know there are trucks around that use diesel; even "smaller" trucks, > for which, I was told by an owner, the automobile companies charge as much > as $8000 as a premium. And I know that VW has a few small vehicles that > operate on diesel (as does Mercedes), but there's a huge silence from the > "Big Three" when it comes to offering diesel on most of their cars... and, > surprisingly - their SUVs. > > This last part is beyond my comprehension. To me, the most effective use > for diesel would be in any of the SUVs (I have one and I love it, > particularly in the Canadian winter) that are being produced. I even wrote > to an automobile journalist who published an article on diesel (Audi's Le > Mans win using a diesel-powered racing car), but... silence. > > It sure looks like a conspiracy of silence to me. Try searching for diesel > information on the websites of the "Big Three." > > P. > > > At 07:08 AM 7/7/2006 -0500, you wrote: > >Fred wrote > > > >An article in the CSM quoted.. > > > >If he could find the right strain of algae,.. > > > >"This is a big idea," Berzin says, "a really powerful idea." > > > >GreenFuel has already garnered $11 million in venture capital funding. > > > > > > > >Howdy Fred.. > > > >I was ready to pony up some money for penny stocks until I counted the > >number of "ifs". Why do I keep thinking the guy that sells sawdust cakes > >in fancy soap wrappers is back in town. Gosh ! Get in line quick. > > > >Richard > > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 8 07:20:00 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k68EJmvc005752; Sat, 8 Jul 2006 07:19:49 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k68EJltu005731; Sat, 8 Jul 2006 07:19:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 07:19:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <002c01c6a299$90475dd0$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 07:14:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69551 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: BioEngineering & Autos Status: O X-Status: Every see the bumper sticker: "Its Amino World without Biochemists" CAVEAT: the American Petroleum Institute and even the National Biodiesel Board strongly warns against average_Joes even reading the following... ...they do not want you to know about *cellulase* which is a key enzyme in final development by NREL - just waiting for the other pieces of the jigsaw puzzle to come together. That would be the puzzle entitled: "A Renewable Energy Future for the USA, NOW". Here are some possible calcs for Fred to improve on - based on a carbon-neutral, renewable energy future plan - year 2010 and beyond - should that puzzle come together by then, and it can... If you need to drive about 18,000 miles per year - 1,500 miles per month and your advanced hybrid diesel with HydroBooster gets near 80 MPG (doable even *without* plug-in option)... obviously you will need around 200 gallons of fuel. By 2010 gasoline or diesel will probably be pushing $6 gallon at the pump or about $1200+ for a year's worth. Is there a home-grown option in biodiesel or even (nondistilled) ethanol? Hmm... maybe... but not unless the technology to convert "suburban biomass" and non-food ag-waste such as grass and tree clippings, food and packaging waste etc. comes along. And it is almost ready. After all, at 7.5 pounds per gallon, that 200 gallons is only ~3/4 of a ton of waste. A couple of good sized oak trees and a half acre of lawn (replanted with saw-grass ) can be trimmed/pruned of that much biomass every summer month. Even a four car family will probably have enough raw biomass available - should they choose to process it. But far closer to reality is the likelihood that every farmers co-op in the USA will go immediately into this - using biowaste - not food crops for tractor fuel. What is needed, technology-wise? Probably the most advantageous single advance would be a single "bug" an Algae (single-celled bioengineered lifeform which can turn ground-up raw mixed cellulose directly into biodiesel. That is probably too much to ask for in the short term, so we will probably need two different strains - one to digest the cellulose and another strain to convert that pre-digested goop immediately into biodiesel. The total fermentation time should be hours - not days. Bring a dry ton of ag-waste in today and get back 200 gallons of biodiesel tomorrow. Well, it turns out that the technology has already been (nearly) developed for the cellulose part -even on the meager NREL budget: http://www.sdsc.edu/Press/2005/10/101305_biomass.html Yes. With the necessary will-power we CAN have a carbon-neutral and oil-free future starting within 5 years - its all a matter of national priority (starting with regime-change, when necessary, to rid government of the Petrocracy). An excess-profits tax on big oil can bring in the annual 20 billion yearly necessary to finance this effort. It would take much longer to totally change the infrastructure, but for now, getting a strong start with local farm co-ops into the biodiesel business using left-over biomass (corn husks instead of corn) is a good place to start. Next will be commercial trucking, corporate automotive, public transportation and lastly the family car. Unless you are so adventurous (and otherwise unemployed) to do it yourself. Once the farmer's co-op starts making its own tractor fuel - the auto companies will be forced to produce cars with this more efficient small diesel engine with hydro-booster - which in hybrid form (non-plug-in) and with the hydro-booster WILL achieve 80 MPG... This has actually been demonstrated in a non-hybrid already. Jones Why a "non-plug-in" hybrid ? Ans: unless we add more nuclear/wind/solar -we cannot guarantee a carbon-neutral solution with a plug-in hybrid - only biodiesel with no grid-charging will do that. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 8 04:15:19 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k68BF6dK004604; Sat, 8 Jul 2006 04:15:06 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k68BF3NM004581; Sat, 8 Jul 2006 04:15:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 04:15:03 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Sender:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=PkXtJj9tT6dE6QURYXbj2RYjGUgJOmo4bzHyUG2fvcGaoNvY2KjKw8J173qSrxkMRTkhrKLSZ+KmOb+hbNMS1qeGSpoTBIV6Nk4zPnwmBKU74DMmnq8km7lJv7c4RJ8lrr1As8C+1Za/SMKXwrDB038wONlsRwjmL/nq4CxaK2I= ; Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.1.20060708071243.01e41540 pop> X-Sender: philip.winestone pop X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.1.1 Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 07:12:56 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Philip Winestone Subject: Re: [VO]:Re:[VO] In-Reply-To: <001001c6a1be$1c38a3d0$0100007f xptower> References: <001001c6a1be$1c38a3d0$0100007f xptower> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69548 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends5 Status: RO X-Status: Biodiesel seems to be a very effective way to go, and this particular idea is quite remarkable. There's one BIG question, though: Where are the diesel-powered vehicles? Oh - I know there are trucks around that use diesel; even "smaller" trucks, for which, I was told by an owner, the automobile companies charge as much as $8000 as a premium. And I know that VW has a few small vehicles that operate on diesel (as does Mercedes), but there's a huge silence from the "Big Three" when it comes to offering diesel on most of their cars... and, surprisingly - their SUVs. This last part is beyond my comprehension. To me, the most effective use for diesel would be in any of the SUVs (I have one and I love it, particularly in the Canadian winter) that are being produced. I even wrote to an automobile journalist who published an article on diesel (Audi's Le Mans win using a diesel-powered racing car), but... silence. It sure looks like a conspiracy of silence to me. Try searching for diesel information on the websites of the "Big Three." P. At 07:08 AM 7/7/2006 -0500, you wrote: >Fred wrote > >An article in the CSM quoted.. > >If he could find the right strain of algae,.. > >"This is a big idea," Berzin says, "a really powerful idea." > >GreenFuel has already garnered $11 million in venture capital funding. > > > >Howdy Fred.. > >I was ready to pony up some money for penny stocks until I counted the >number of "ifs". Why do I keep thinking the guy that sells sawdust cakes >in fancy soap wrappers is back in town. Gosh ! Get in line quick. > >Richard > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 8 16:37:09 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k68Nb0PV003828; Sat, 8 Jul 2006 16:37:00 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k68Nagiv003752; Sat, 8 Jul 2006 16:36:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 16:36:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <000c01c6a2e7$5703cdd0$f7c4163f DFBGQZ91> From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" To: References: Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 19:36:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69552 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Joe Cell again Status: O X-Status: All, Correct me if I am incorrect but isn't this "Joe Cell" the thing that involved "conditioning" the engine by jumping an HV arc to the crankshaft or balancer? I seem to recall having read that somewhere. From a mechanics standpoint, I can pretty well safely say that throwing arcs to the block will not do much....unless they are coming from the coil, in which case, ignition and timing is all messed up, and mileage is reduced, not increased. How is this thing supposed to work? I read a PDF file about it, but it was mostly just theory....anything we can build? --Kyle From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 8 21:14:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k694ELg4021327; Sat, 8 Jul 2006 21:14:21 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k694DfXc021069; Sat, 8 Jul 2006 21:13:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 21:13:40 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=e5bGuc6wXx6VfKC5QSDaadHSDTDwrVF9c9oz6iPhDo76F3+Qy9tN1dAjRsL36iPF; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220067094131669 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 22:13:16 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BC2B74.89D1CCC0" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9403e5e55cd711cdff84dbf5c9d4dba4ab8350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.129 Resent-Message-ID: <8BQVn.A.EJF.0JIsEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69553 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: emailing: featured_properties Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BC2B74.89D1CCC0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:Shortcut to: http://www.karensiegman.com/featured_properties.htm Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. 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------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- ------=_NextPart_000_01BC2B74.89D1CCC0 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="featured_properties.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: featured_properties.url Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="featured_properties.url" W0ludGVybmV0U2hvcnRjdXRdDQpVUkw9aHR0cDovL3d3dy5rYXJlbnNpZWdtYW4uY29tL2ZlYXR1 cmVkX3Byb3BlcnRpZXMuaHRtDQpNb2RpZmllZD1DMDdDMjlEMDBEQTNDNjAxQUMNCg== ------=_NextPart_000_01BC2B74.89D1CCC0-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 8 21:20:06 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k694JwJw024045; Sat, 8 Jul 2006 21:19:58 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k694JuPE024019; Sat, 8 Jul 2006 21:19:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 21:19:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2006 00:19:52 -0400 Message-Id: <8C871260F929F43-1C38-22773 mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <410-220067094131669 earthlink.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <410-220067094131669 earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Subject: Re: [Vo]: emailing: featured_properties Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.134 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k694Jt2H023999 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69554 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Frederick Sparber The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:Shortcut to:       http://www.karensiegman.com/featured_properties.htm <><><><><> You buyin' or sellin', Fred? Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 8 21:59:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k694xLPF010913; Sat, 8 Jul 2006 21:59:21 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k694xKKd010895; Sat, 8 Jul 2006 21:59:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 21:59:20 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Joe Cell again Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2006 13:37:03 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <000c01c6a2e7$5703cdd0$f7c4163f@DFBGQZ91> In-Reply-To: <000c01c6a2e7$5703cdd0$f7c4163f DFBGQZ91> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta03ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.71.48] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Sun, 9 Jul 2006 03:37:02 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k694xH4B010845 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69555 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Kyle R. Mcallister's message of Sat, 8 Jul 2006 19:36:28 -0400: Hi Kyle, [snip] >All, > >Correct me if I am incorrect but isn't this "Joe Cell" the thing that >involved "conditioning" the engine by jumping an HV arc to the crankshaft or >balancer? Probably. >I seem to recall having read that somewhere. From a mechanics >standpoint, I can pretty well safely say that throwing arcs to the block >will not do much....unless they are coming from the coil, in which case, >ignition and timing is all messed up, and mileage is reduced, not increased. This is not a conventionally fueled engine. (IMO it's probably hydrino/fusion based). The fuel itself may comprise a charged gas, which may explain the voltage build up, and the necessity of discharging that voltage occasionally. > >How is this thing supposed to work? That's the $64000 question (or perhaps 64 billion?). ;) (I suggest you check the Vortex archive for lots of theories on how it might work (if at all). See:- http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/ >I read a PDF file about it, but it was >mostly just theory....anything we can build? There is a whole spiel here:- http://www.joecell.com.au/alexbook.html and Joe Cell kits are obtainable here:- http://www.nutech2000.com/category2_1.htm Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 9 00:39:00 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k697U37j001568; Sun, 9 Jul 2006 00:38:52 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k697PUI7031358; Sun, 9 Jul 2006 00:25:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 00:25:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <44B0AF40.7000600 usfamily.net> Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2006 02:24:48 -0500 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69556 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: biological computing Status: O X-Status: Vortexians; With a URL like this, I couldn't resist visiting his website. I read his writings and they made no sense to me. Am I uneducated, do his ideas on information processing make sense? http://www.historianofthefuture.com/ubiquit.html --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 9 02:20:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k699KlrG012683; Sun, 9 Jul 2006 02:20:47 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k699Ki7c012658; Sun, 9 Jul 2006 02:20:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 02:20:44 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=P6ihdPHG1l4ynSLBBhEsAbp4XJbVV6aEkjk4S6LVjP5BYkwIGimp/LZwptuiAFRd; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200670992031951 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: emailing: featured_properties Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 03:20:31 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9405ff52d0b8ceafb684ec4bbb535443e8f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.198 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69557 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Holy Cow! How did that get on the list? I'm sellin' so I can get a new prescription for my progressive lens glasses, Terry. :-( Fred > > -----Original Message----- > From: Frederick Sparber > > The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link > attachments:Shortcut to: >   >   >   > http://www.karensiegman.com/featured_properties.htm > > <><><><><> > > You buyin' or sellin', Fred? > > Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 9 07:34:17 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k69EY83J012653; Sun, 9 Jul 2006 07:34:08 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k69EY2KW012584; Sun, 9 Jul 2006 07:34:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 07:34:02 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2006 10:33:53 -0400 Message-Id: <8C8717BD62F47C0-2B00-7754 mblkn-m17.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <44B0AF40.7000600 usfamily.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <44B0AF40.7000600 usfamily.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Subject: Re: [Vo]: biological computing Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.135 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k69EY0tI012541 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69558 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: thomas malloy With a URL like this, I couldn't resist visiting his website. I read his writings and they made no sense to me. Am I uneducated, do his ideas on information processing make sense? http://www.historianofthefuture.com/ubiquit.html  <><><><><> Sure. He is making William Gibson's "Neuromancer" real. I'll bet he and Sarfatti are buds. ;-) Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 9 12:01:21 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k69J1AYl006424; Sun, 9 Jul 2006 12:01:10 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k69J173c006391; Sun, 9 Jul 2006 12:01:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 12:01:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2006 15:01:03 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net Message-Id: <8C871A129172BC5-1A64-4C7D mblkn-m11.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.129 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69559 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Imaginary Weapons Status: O X-Status: A book recently mentioned on the hydrino list has been the subject of discussion by certain "fringe" scientists in other lists: http://www.fourmilab.ch/fourmilog/archives/2006-06/000715.html http://www.imaginaryweapons.net/imaginary_weapons_climax.htm Any idea who the "obscure Texas scientist" might be? Could he be from Austin? ;-) So, Jones, suppose we put that hafnium within a shell of scandium then hit it with the dental x-ray? Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 9 14:23:43 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k69LNYZc003404; Sun, 9 Jul 2006 14:23:35 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k69LNXAv003385; Sun, 9 Jul 2006 14:23:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 14:23:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: biological computing Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 07:23:20 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <44B0AF40.7000600 usfamily.net> In-Reply-To: <44B0AF40.7000600 usfamily.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta05ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.65.197] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Sun, 9 Jul 2006 21:23:19 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k69LNKqh003252 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69560 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to thomas malloy's message of Sun, 09 Jul 2006 02:24:48 -0500: Hi, [snip] >Vortexians; > >With a URL like this, I couldn't resist visiting his website. I read his >writings and they made no sense to me. Am I uneducated, do his ideas on >information processing make sense? >http://www.historianofthefuture.com/ubiquit.html ...and I suppose the next step after "3) Everything is connected - if it is not connected, it isn't real" is ...If it isn't real, then it has no value. This is a sure fire recipe for destruction of those humans that are not wired into the system. And those that are wired in can be controlled. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 9 14:25:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k69LPFdI004403; Sun, 9 Jul 2006 14:25:16 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k69LPEXj004387; Sun, 9 Jul 2006 14:25:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 14:25:14 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=pacbell.net; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=2rBAX7OY6dZ3OgGuBEiBNWfJMwRUOdN7iW1cHyqpvmZcptBQ5u/pwvy7SdjPdtHM3dCke1VTTZeyf7+OPF0VS6eWWyPoEHOdDUiG2avnONSE0qQO3QRaTN48zvDtDFCGklDRPesuRqJoNW40vYHD8F+BGc4nA+CmdZZi0fi4HAM= ; Message-ID: <20060709212512.18908.qmail web82705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 14:25:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Jones Beene To: vortex-l eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <8C871A129172BC5-1A64-4C7D mblkn-m11.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <-USN4D.A.aEB.6QXsEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69561 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Imaginary Weapons Status: O X-Status: --- hohlrauml6d netscape.net wrote: > A book recently mentioned on the hydrino list has been the subject of discussion by certain "fringe" scientists in other lists: > Any idea who the "obscure Texas scientist" might be? Could he be from Austin? ;-) No - his name is Collins from UT, Dallas > So, Jones, suppose we put that hafnium within a > shell of scandium then > hit it with the dental x-ray? Scandium will multiply x-rays of higher frequency but not dental x-rays AFAIK. If you trigger the halfnium first with a small accelerator, then scandium might give you a much larger burst - if coherency is not needed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 9 18:46:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6A1jwbP003378; Sun, 9 Jul 2006 18:45:59 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6A1juFW003352; Sun, 9 Jul 2006 18:45:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 18:45:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-CVTV-Spamfilter: Scanned X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Virus-Scanned: by McAfee Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <001f01c6a3c2$9012c550$0100007f xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: [VO]: Re: biological computing Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 20:45:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001B_01C6A398.A67304B0"; type="multipart/alternative" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: <7xWlKC.A.R0.UFbsEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69562 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C6A398.A67304B0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001C_01C6A398.A67304B0" ------=_NextPart_001_001C_01C6A398.A67304B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankThomas wrote.. With a URL like this, I couldn't resist visiting his website. I read his = writings and they made no sense to me. Am I uneducated, do his ideas on=20 information processing make sense?=20 http://www.historianofthefuture.com/ubiquit.html Howdy Thomas.. Don't know about his future but anyone that can "cobble" words together = like him has a future at CNN.=20 He is obviously the same kid I sat across back in school when sliderules = were in fad. After 30 minutes of his descriptions of the amazing = discoveries of the unlimited functions, my buddy reached over, took the = sliderule and broke it in two.=20 Richard ------=_NextPart_001_001C_01C6A398.A67304B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Thomas wrote..
 
With a URL like this, I couldn't resist visiting his website. I = read his=20
writings and they made no sense to me. Am I uneducated, do his ideas = on=20
information processing make sense?
http://www.hist= orianofthefuture.com/ubiquit.html
 
Howdy Thomas..
 
Don't know about his future but anyone that can "cobble" words = together=20 like him has a future at CNN.
He is obviously the same kid I sat across back in school when = sliderules=20 were in fad. After 30 minutes of his descriptions of the =  amazing=20 discoveries of the unlimited functions, my buddy reached over, took the=20 sliderule and broke it in two.
 
Richard

 

------=_NextPart_001_001C_01C6A398.A67304B0-- ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C6A398.A67304B0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <001a01c6a3c2$8f36bd30$0100007f xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C6A398.A67304B0-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 9 21:26:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6A4QJNP029190; Sun, 9 Jul 2006 21:26:19 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6A4QCEs029163; Sun, 9 Jul 2006 21:26:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 21:26:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 21:26:12 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <001f01c6a3c2$9012c550$0100007f xptower> Message-ID: References: <001f01c6a3c2$9012c550$0100007f xptower> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69563 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Take a break: science humor Status: RO X-Status: Found on youtube.com: episodes of a UK television show, "Braniac Science Abuse" http://www.youtube.com/results?search=brainiac%20science%20abuse (((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))))))))))))))))))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 425-222-5066 unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 9 21:43:56 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6A4hY00003295; Sun, 9 Jul 2006 21:43:35 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6A4hVGK003266; Sun, 9 Jul 2006 21:43:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 21:43:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 00:40:10 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: [Vo]: biological computing In-reply-to: To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: <9c1U4B.A.6y.yrdsEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69564 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > In reply to thomas malloy's message of Sun, 09 Jul 2006 02:24:48 > -0500: > Hi, > [snip] >> Vortexians; >> >> With a URL like this, I couldn't resist visiting his website. I read his >> writings and they made no sense to me. Am I uneducated, do his ideas on >> information processing make sense? >> http://www.historianofthefuture.com/ubiquit.html > > ...and I suppose the next step after > > "3) Everything is connected - if it is not connected, it isn't > real" > > is ...If it isn't real, then it has no value. > > This is a sure fire recipe for destruction of those humans that > are not wired into the system. And those that are wired in can be > controlled. > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > The system must adapt to the individual. Harry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 9 22:22:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6A5Mg5x016416; Sun, 9 Jul 2006 22:22:42 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6A5MeUO016402; Sun, 9 Jul 2006 22:22:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 22:22:40 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <44B1E40F.2010804 usfamily.net> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 00:22:23 -0500 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Joe Cell again References: <000c01c6a2e7$5703cdd0$f7c4163f@DFBGQZ91> In-Reply-To: <000c01c6a2e7$5703cdd0$f7c4163f DFBGQZ91> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69565 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Kyle R. Mcallister wrote: > All, > > Correct me if I am incorrect but isn't this "Joe Cell" the thing that > involved "conditioning" the engine by jumping an HV arc to the > crankshaft or balancer? I seem > How is this thing supposed to work? I read a PDF file about it, but it > was mostly just theory....anything we can build? It amazes me, Kyle and Fred, that having read the Joe Cell file, you missed the point, which is that the energy involved is orgone or chi. I've never seen orgone work, so all I can say is build the cell and see if it works. If it does than someone deserves a trip to Stockholm, but given the resistance to it, don't hold your breath. --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 9 22:39:06 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6A5cqcA023835; Sun, 9 Jul 2006 22:38:53 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6A5coW3023814; Sun, 9 Jul 2006 22:38:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 22:38:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=WvL66yhdoy/xd6HXRd/A3OXlAZsri5tQWHV8yTL08OyLPTnfdOdLvBnfNT1MYuJpinl+imUJ1fE6YNs57eUV7O/dDTp0isFsbkANm1OxsFRv+EbRYDQuvjVGQxGUG0UFO286X/bU7NjjwreAwhsuytKryDDAecRWhnN6OCQoOFU= Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 01:38:48 -0400 From: "john herman" To: vortex-l , "Kyle R. Mcallister" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69566 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Abstract from vortex Status: RO X-Status: Dear Vo, I have copied an abstract from text found from Vortex Universal Resource Locator ......or URL... or Earl .... This appears to be someone ... or a chain of persons ... who have printed up a some times "cool" sounding..... Woo Woo.... Many perons namse are used .... context is odd, at best..... Is this Vortex? Or in other words ....... is are some how..... the contribution of experimentalism ..gone west, been lost, went south.... OR: If the graphics are cool..... then this makes """ IT""" correct, right, left, indifferent ??? Just a question. After 6 years of experimentation, I made the assumption that the Joe cell was working on Orgone energy. This assumption came as a result of hundreds of hours of reading and experimentation. In all that time, all the recorded effects of Orgone, ( and there are hundreds ) have matched the behaviour of the Joe cell. There has never been a departure from the known recorded effect of Orgone energy, not even one! As such it would take a far braver man than I to argue with the huge supporting evidence of thousand's of man-hours and the work from hundreds of qualified individuals from all over the world. So, as my own humble experiments agree with the majority, I have said, and will repeat many times, the cell runs or more correctly, accumulates Orgone energy. Theoretical requirements Sometimes I have to restate the obvious, namely, if we are to accumulate Orgone energy, we must have an Orgone accumulator! We are not designing this cell to use Neutrino's, Deuterium, Nitro-glycerine, steam, Nitrogen, Hydrogen, Hydroxy, or any other author's pet opinion to the contrary. You will have to read other publications for those topics and cell designs, this train goes to Orgone country. We are designing our cell to run on Orgone energy! When I say " we ", I am assuming that the reader is following suit, and will build a cell closely matching these instructions. As such, a close study of the chapters on Orgone properties and cell polarities would be in order. If you were a naughty boy and skipped over these sections, I would suggest that you read them now. So what have you discovered? You should be in agreement with me on at least two points, ie. that the cell should use as many of one type of Orgone polarity materials and properties as possible, and additionally, we want to utilise as many as possible of all external forces available to us to assist us in the accumulation of the Orgone energy. Are we on the right track with our Joe cell accumulator? What would we aim for in the design of a perfect energy accumulator ? Is there any better way to go? Maybe we are on the wrong track? At this stage it may be a good idea to consider the design parameters for the ultimate energy source. After all, why waste our time with the Joe cell if there is a " better " way of getting our energy. Better meaning, cheaper, parts effective, less polluting, less destructive, longer lasting, etc. If we look at the quote from Viktor Schauberger at the start of this chapter, "... natural, silent, simple and cheap..." is a very good starting point. Let me give you a brief list of the requirements of this magic accumulator and see if we are on the right track with the Joe cell: * The Joe cell is natural as it operates on the life force ( Orgone ). It is the only natural man-made energy producing device that does a direct interchange from a primary energy source to the final energy supply. As such it seems to provide " free energy " and thus be an impossibility. This is a huge stumbling block for people who do not understand the concept of " free energy ". * The Joe cell is silent. There are no moving parts. A solar panel or Peltier effect device would be the closest highly inefficient relations. * The Joe cell is simple. No moving parts, a set of cylinders and water, you could not get it any more simple. * The Joe cell is cheap. After the initial outlay, there are no further material costs or replacements required to worn-out parts. The Joe cell is virtually everlasting. If you build one with second hand components, your total outlay should be under AUS $200.00 * When we use energy that is at its fundamental stage ie. the energy cannot be broken up into any other energy constituents that are at a smaller level; we have no waste by-products and thus no pollution. The Joe cell runs on the life force energy ( Orgone ) which is a fundamental force of the Universe. You are not going to get any more basic than that! * Any centrifugal, expanding and exploding force is wasteful due to the creation of heat. Any device that generates heat as part of its operation can never be considered an efficient energy source. Nor can it ever be an over unity device. The Joe cell runs cool and so does the motor that runs from it. * Any energy produced from a set of conversion stages is wasteful. For example, a nuclear submarine has a nuclear reactor to create heat. The heat is used to create steam from water. The steam drives a steam turbine. The steam turbine is used to run an electric generator. The electric generator is used to drive an electric motor. The electric motor turns a propeller. The propeller twists in water thus providing a thrust. The thrust propels the submarine. You would have to be kidding! No wonder that superior beings roll on the floor with laughter on observing our " technology ". How unnatural is all that? The Joe cell converts the primary life force ( Orgone ) into an expanding multiple use force in one step. Beautifully simple! * The Orgone does not have to be stored or converted and stored. It is an on-demand system and thus there is no infra-structure required to store, distribute, ship, sell, etc. Unlike petrol, it is the same price each week ( free ). Definitely not good news for the oil multi-national concerns. Maybe that is why we are not using this force? < grin>. So to summarise, I would say that, ( to the best of my knowledge ) as there is no alternative energy device to compete with the Joe cell, we would be on the right track if we build a cell that ran on Orgone. Please note that the Joe cell and its construction has limitations and negatives as you have already read and will read in later chapters. As we do not live on a perfect world, we are not perfect humans and the Joe cell is not a perfect device. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 10 04:46:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6ABk5Ai031582; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 04:46:06 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6ABk3Tl031561; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 04:46:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 04:46:03 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-CVTV-Spamfilter: Scanned X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Virus-Scanned: by McAfee Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <000e01c6a416$66679ce0$0100007f xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: [VO]:Re: Abstract from vortex Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 06:45:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01C6A3EC.6592B2C0"; type="multipart/alternative" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: <6niDqC.A.FtH.63jsEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69567 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C6A3EC.6592B2C0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000B_01C6A3EC.6592B2C0" ------=_NextPart_001_000B_01C6A3EC.6592B2C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blankjohn wrote.. I have copied an abstract from text found from Vortex Universal Resource Locator ......or URL... or Earl .... This appears to be someone ... or a chain of persons ... who have printed up a some times "cool" sounding..... Woo Woo.... Many perons namse are used .... context is odd, at best..... Is this Vortex? Or in other words ....... is are some how..... the contribution of experimentalism ..gone west, been lost, went south.... OR: If the graphics are cool..... then this makes """ IT""" correct, right, left, indifferent ??? Just a question. Howdy john.. What is your question? If you are asking the difference between orgone and orgasm we cannot = divulge certain experimental results due to CDA's between parties. = Certain researchers report amazing results using a combo of rocket fuel = and viagra.=20 Joe Cells and "J" Lo's cannot be connected with any degree of = satisfaction. I know I certainly wouldn't risk my jewels in a Joe Cell = cylinder without more assurance than a simply wink. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_000B_01C6A3EC.6592B2C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
john wrote..
 
  I have copied an abstract from text found from Vortex=20 Universal
Resource Locator ......or URL... or Earl=20 ....

    This appears to be someone ... or a chain = of=20 persons ... who have
printed up a some times "cool" = sounding.....  Woo=20 Woo....


         Many = perons=20 namse are used .... context is odd, at=20 best.....

       Is this=20 Vortex?

         &nbs= p;      =20 Or in other words .......  is are some how..... the
contribution = of=20 experimentalism ..gone west, been lost, went=20 south....

         &n= bsp;=20 OR:  If the graphics are cool..... then this makes """
IT""" = correct,=20 right, left, indifferent=20 ???

          &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p; =20 Just a question.
 
Howdy john..
 
What is your question?
 
If you are asking the difference between orgone and orgasm we = cannot=20 divulge certain experimental results due to CDA's between parties. = Certain=20 researchers report amazing results using a combo of rocket fuel and=20 viagra. 
Joe Cells and  "J" Lo's cannot be connected with any = degree=20 of satisfaction. I know I certainly wouldn't risk my jewels in a Joe = Cell=20 cylinder without more assurance than a simply wink.
 
Richard

 

------=_NextPart_001_000B_01C6A3EC.6592B2C0-- ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C6A3EC.6592B2C0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000901c6a416$4e597880$0100007f xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C6A3EC.6592B2C0-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 10 09:30:55 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6AGUdq9030016; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 09:30:39 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6AGUYBZ029980; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 09:30:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 09:30:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060710122931.03ef74a8 mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 12:30:28 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69568 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: "Imagine no Gasoline" Status: RO X-Status: A Libertarian proposal to eliminate gasoline in 30 years: http://www.reason.com/rauch/071006.shtml - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 10 09:52:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6AGqTRZ008110; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 09:52:29 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6AGqRgU008085; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 09:52:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 09:52:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060710165222215.0536E94000EA mwinf3209.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060710165222.00b59368 pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:52:22 +0100 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: [Vo]: Imaginary Weapons Resent-Message-ID: <6n7su.A.O-B.KXosEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69569 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:01 pm 09/07/2006 -0400, Terry wrote: >A book recently mentioned on the hydrino list has been the subject of >discussion by certain "fringe" scientists in other lists: > >http://www.fourmilab.ch/fourmilog/archives/2006-06/000715.html > >http://www.imaginaryweapons.net/imaginary_weapons_climax.htm > >Any idea who the "obscure Texas scientist" might be? Could he be from >Austin? ;-) > >So, Jones, suppose we put that hafnium within a shell of scandium then >hit it with the dental x-ray? > >Terry Interesting article Terry. It has parallels with the problem of getting water to explode. I had to laugh at this passage - ================================================== "if you could manage to trigger a mass of hafnium all at once or arrange for it to self-trigger in a chain reaction, you could make a variety of nifty weapons out of it, including a nuclear hand grenade with a yield of two kilotons." ================================================== You'd need a jolly strong throwing arm for that hand grenade. 8-) Frank From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 10 10:08:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6AH87Pn014877; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 10:08:07 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6AH868a014858; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 10:08:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 10:08:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060710101416.03311a60 mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 10:14:30 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="=====================_596659000==.REL" Resent-Message-ID: <94WVxD.A.BoD.1losEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69570 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Status: RO X-Status: --=====================_596659000==.REL Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_596659000==.ALT" --=====================_596659000==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Emacs! Your best source for cold fusion news and information. July 10, 2006 -- Issue #17 ISSUE #17 is available online at http://newenergytimes.com/news/2006/NET17.htm EDITORIALS AND OPINION 1. From the Editor 2. To the Editor NEWS & ANNOUNCEMENTS 3. 2006 Naval Science & Technology Partnership Conference 4. Selected Published Cold Fusion/Condensed Matter Nuclear Science Papers 5. RCCNT&BL-14 Rescheduled 6. Italian Condensed Matter Nuclear Science Workshop ANALYSIS AND PERSPECTIVES 7. National Energy Symposium - Los Angeles 8. Only a Fool Would Believe That Cold Fusion Will Not Become an Important Energy Source 9. Excerpts from "Cold Fusion: In Search of Infinite Energy" 10. Questions From a Journalist in Europe 11. Jury Still Out on BlackLight Power 12. Cold Fusion: A Wicked Problem To Solve 13. SCIENCE AND ENERGY NEWS New Energy Times (tm) is a project of New Energy Institute, an independent 501(c)(3) nonprofit corporation which provides information and educational services to help bring about the clean-energy revolution. The New Energy Times (tm) newsletter, Web site, and documentary projects are made possible by the generous contributions of our sponsors and supporters. ---------- If you have received this announcement from a colleague and you wish to be added to the New Energy Times (tm) mailing list, or if you would like to unsubscribe, click here http://newenergytimes.com/news/news.htm. --=====================_596659000==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

Emacs!
Your best source for cold fusion news and information.
July 10, 2006 -- Issue #17


 ISSUE #17 is available online at http://newenergytimes.com/news/2006/NET17.htm

 

EDITORIALS AND OPINION
1.   From the Editor
2.   To the Editor
NEWS & ANNOUNCEMENTS
3.   2006 Naval Science & Technology Partnership Conference
4.   Selected Published Cold Fusion/Condensed Matter Nuclear Science Papers
5.   RCCNT&BL-14 Rescheduled
6.   Italian Condensed Matter Nuclear Science Workshop
ANALYSIS AND PERSPECTIVES
7.   National Energy Symposium - Los Angeles
8.   Only a Fool Would Believe That Cold Fusion Will Not Become an Important Energy Source
9.   Excerpts from "Cold Fusion: In Search of Infinite Energy"
10. Questions From a Journalist in Europe
11. Jury Still Out on BlackLight Power
12. Cold Fusion: A Wicked Problem To Solve
13. SCIENCE AND ENERGY NEWS


New Energy Times (tm) is a project of New Energy Institute, an independent 501(c)(3) nonprofit corporation which provides information and educational services to help bring about the clean-energy revolution.
 
The New Energy Times (tm) newsletter, Web site, and documentary projects are made possible by the generous contributions of our sponsors and supporters.


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Systems User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: "Imagine no Gasoline" References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060710122931.03ef74a8 mindspring.com> In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060710122931.03ef74a8 mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69571 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I think the word Libertarian is not a good description. This idea is about as conservative as they come. It uses the good old free enterprise system to its full advantage. People would be free to decide just how they could make the most money by using something besides gasoline. The process is starting already with ethanol, hydrogen, and hybrids. By adopting this idea, Bush could drop his idiocy rating by a huge amount. Ed Jed Rothwell wrote: > A Libertarian proposal to eliminate gasoline in 30 years: > > http://www.reason.com/rauch/071006.shtml > > - Jed > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 10 10:53:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6AHr2fI006959; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 10:53:13 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6AHeB5W031312; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 10:40:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 10:40:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060710133737.03f41880 mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:39:44 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: [Vo]: "Imagine no Gasoline" In-Reply-To: <44B28B83.2090801 ix.netcom.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060710122931.03ef74a8 mindspring.com> <44B28B83.2090801 ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <58ifnD.A.GpH.6DpsEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69572 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Edmund Storms wrote: >I think the word Libertarian is not a good description. I meant this is a Libertarian publication, closely associated with the Libertarian Party. It is interesting to note that even they support this initiative. Normally they oppose all government plans, which I think is misguided. >By adopting this idea, Bush could drop his idiocy rating by a huge amount. I agree, but I think there is not the slightest chance he will do so. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 10 13:23:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6AKMqW1025610; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:23:04 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6AKJKGI022250; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:19:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:19:20 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Reply-To: From: "Rick Monteverde" To: Subject: RE: [Vo]: "Imagine no Gasoline" Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 08:14:52 -1000 Organization: Highsurf.com Message-ID: <006001c6a44c$bf37c210$8101a8c0 RicksL2000> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060710133737.03f41880 mindspring.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Thread-Index: AcakSdUDygsjUVHRSD20wIQZy54rOwAAqRsw X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - kappa.fastbighost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - eskimo.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - highsurf.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69573 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I doubt we could do it without building a rash of new nukes. The hazards are pretty obvious, but I'm not sure it wouldn't be a bad idea now given the alternatives. R. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 10 13:57:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6AKvEJH023371; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:57:14 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6AKv9qZ023295; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:57:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:57:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060710163350.03f41738 mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 16:43:49 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: RE: [Vo]: "Imagine no Gasoline" In-Reply-To: <006001c6a44c$bf37c210$8101a8c0 RicksL2000> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060710133737.03f41880 mindspring.com> <006001c6a44c$bf37c210$8101a8c0 RicksL2000> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69574 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Rick Monteverde wrote: >I doubt we could do it without building a rash of new nukes. The hazards are >pretty obvious, but I'm not sure it wouldn't be a bad idea now given the >alternatives. I agree some number of nukes might be a good idea, especially to reduce coal consumption. But given 30 years to do the job, we could even build something like a giant array of solar thermal liquid fuel plants (or the bio-fuel plants discussed here). 30 years is a long time. The U.S. built a gigantic railway system between 1840 and 1870, and a highway system between 1952 and 1982. I am pretty confident that if we had made serious efforts to end the use of gasoline starting in 1976, it would be gone by now, and with plug-in hybrid technology it should be much easier to drastically reduce or eliminate gasoline. I think for liquid fuel production, a solar-thermal array in the southwest would be better than massive wind farms in the Dakotas. With plug-in hybrids, the demand for liquid fuel would be far lower than it is now, so the liquid fuel could come from distant solar-thermal plants while the electricity comes from new nukes built closer to population centers. My guess is that would be the best combination of present-day technologies. Something like HTSC power transmission might change that. An improved battery would shift the equation toward the plug-in side of the plug-in hybrid equation. The difficulty of this problem has been exaggerated. Last year, global windpower increased by 11.5 GW (nameplate), or the equivalent of roughly 4 average U.S. nukes. The U.S. could easily afford to install as much wind power as the rest of the world combined. It would not be a gigantic effort, given the size of our economy and population. It would cost far less than the Iraq war. 30 years * 4 nukes = 120 nukes (very roughly 1/3 of our present power generating capacity.) That pretty much solves the vehicle fuel problem, assuming you find a good way to recharge and refuel plug-in hybrids. (They do not mind intermittent electricity.) In real life, you would want to make this a mixture of wind, solar and fission. Anyway, ~4 per year would fix the problem. Maybe around year #10, as plug-in hybrid car sales take off, you might need to expand by ~8 nuke equivalents instead of 4, but by that time the construction capabilities could easily be ramped up. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 10 14:25:55 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6AKxKkH024902; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:59:25 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6AKxHMx024863; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:59:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:59:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 16:56:19 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: [Vo]: "Imagine no Gasoline" In-reply-to: <7.0.1.0.2.20060710133737.03f41880 mindspring.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69575 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From the article: > The nexus between oil and rogues is not happenstance. A growing literature > suggests that oil wealth emboldens autocrats, fosters corruption, retards > economic development, and undermines democratic accountability. Though > Friedman is probably exaggerating when he posits that "the price of oil and > the pace of freedom always move in opposite directions," it does seem that oil > wealth distracts states from building diversified modern economies, > establishing accountable governments, writing sensible tax codes, and > investing in human capital. Oil states, notes The Economist, "fare worse on > child mortality and nutrition, have lower literacy and school-enrollment > rates, and do relatively worse on measures like the U.N.'s Human Development > Index." Corrupt and fascist regimes will always find some wealth to exploit. If not oil then diamonds or food or ... A reduction in gasoline consumption can reduce CO2 emissions, but I don't think it should be touted as means to bring about world peace and freedom. Harry Jed Rothwell wrote: > Edmund Storms wrote: > >> I think the word Libertarian is not a good description. > > I meant this is a Libertarian publication, closely associated with > the Libertarian Party. It is interesting to note that even they > support this initiative. Normally they oppose all government plans, > which I think is misguided. > > >> By adopting this idea, Bush could drop his idiocy rating by a huge amount. > > I agree, but I think there is not the slightest chance he will do so. > > - Jed > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 10 15:00:35 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6AM0IUn030375; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 15:00:19 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6AM0F5T030346; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 15:00:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 15:00:15 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060710174935.03f59370 mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 18:00:08 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: [Vo]: "Imagine no Gasoline" In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060710133737.03f41880 mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69576 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Harry Veeder wrote: >Corrupt and fascist regimes will always find some wealth to exploit. >If not oil then diamonds or food or ... Some things are easier for corrupt people to exploit than others. Oil and diamonds happen to be particularly easy. Food can be grown anywhere with little capital, so it is more difficult to exploit. >A reduction in gasoline consumption can reduce CO2 emissions, but I don't >think it should be touted as means to bring about world peace and freedom. It is not a panacea, but I think it would contribute a great deal to peace and freedom. Sometimes, technology does make huge beneficial contributions to human happiness, after all. (And sometimes it makes millions of people miserable.) We tend to take technology for granted, and forget how much it has done. Without 19th and 20th century technology, slavery and child labor would still be economically beneficial -- so they would still exist. Famine would still be common. The proof is that in the parts of the world where 19th century technology has not penetrated, slavery and famine still flourish, unfortunately. Of course there are other causes, mainly political. As I said in my book, cold fusion plus political and social reforms could revolutionize life for everyone, everywhere in the world. Wind, solar and fission together could also bring about great changes, although nothing remotely as good as what cold fusion can accomplish, because the cost is so much higher. This is not a utopian vision, or escapism. People who feel it is have no sense of history, and no feeling for how radically different life is now, and how much it can still change. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 10 15:26:41 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6AMQUxp009360; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 15:26:34 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6AMQOlE009317; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 15:26:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 15:26:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <007001c6a46f$dc2ab7b0$3800a8c0 zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 00:25:55 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6AMQM2Q009290 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69577 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Pb with comas in subject line Status: O X-Status: Subject line: Pb with comas in subject line I don't know if this has been brought up before but it seems that subject lines containing comas "," end up empty when broadcast by the Vortex list server, I'll check that by trying the same subject line as presently only with an added coma. -- Michel From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 10 15:28:50 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6AMSb3I010275; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 15:28:38 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6AMSa4T010261; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 15:28:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 15:28:36 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <007401c6a470$2d573460$3800a8c0 zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 00:28:32 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6AMSZPl010236 Resent-Message-ID: <_a69nD.A.IgC.UStsEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69578 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Pb with comas, in subject line Status: O X-Status: Subject line (contains a coma): Pb with comas, in subject line I wrote: > I don't know if this has been brought up before but it seems that subject lines > containing comas "," end up empty when broadcast by the Vortex list server, > I'll check that by trying the same subject line as presently only with an added coma. -- Michel From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 10 15:37:06 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6AMaq4G016539; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 15:36:52 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6AMao7R016520; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 15:36:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 15:36:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <007701c6a471$52ebe990$3800a8c0 zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <007401c6a470$2d573460$3800a8c0 zothan> Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 00:36:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6AMamgF016494 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69579 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Pb with comas, in subject line Status: O X-Status: Well no obviously the problem can't be replicated by just adding a coma anywhere in the line. Maybe it would help Bill if those who have had their subject lines eaten, like Steve a few hours ago, tell us what it was in their original post (in their "sent" mailbox). Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Jullian" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 12:28 AM Subject: [Vo]: Pb with comas, in subject line > Subject line (contains a coma): > Pb with comas, in subject line > > I wrote: >> I don't know if this has been brought up before but it seems that subject lines >> containing comas "," end up empty when broadcast by the Vortex list server, >> I'll check that by trying the same subject line as presently only with an added coma. > -- > Michel > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 10 16:59:08 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6ANwskM020803; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 16:58:54 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6ANwqX0020790; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 16:58:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 16:58:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 19:58:48 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net Message-Id: <8C87293EBDD2B69-1118-34C0D mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.138 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69580 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: DOE's Top 100 Status: O X-Status: Actually 101: http://www.er.doe.gov/sub/accomplishments/decades_discovery/decades.htm http://tinyurl.com/h42bn "U.S. Department of Energy's Decades of Discovery For the past two-and-a-half decades, the Office of Science at the U.S. Department of Energy has been at the forefront of scientific discovery. We asked our staff and colleagues to help us identify 100 or so of the most important discoveries supported by the Office of Science. The following list of discoveries is grouped by general discipline?the numerical order is random and not ranked by importance. " From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 10 17:13:41 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6B0DIva029940; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:13:19 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6B0DGvb029916; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:13:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:13:15 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 20:13:04 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net Message-Id: <8C87295EA001781-1118-34C8F mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.138 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69581 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: How to See Your Big TOE Status: O X-Status: Build your own solar system: http://www.newscientistspace.com/article.ns?id=dn9484 "Mini solar system could reveal hidden dimensions The 'solar system in a can' would reside in a space craft 'parked' at the L2 Lagrange point (Image: NASA) A tiny, artificial solar system could reveal hidden spatial dimensions and test alternative theories of gravity, a new study suggests. If the system's "planets" moved slightly differently than expected from standard gravity, it would signal the presence of new physical phenomena ? which have proven very difficult to test." From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 10 17:28:06 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6B0Rmsc007480; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:27:49 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6B0Rk4n007458; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:27:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:27:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 20:27:43 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net Message-Id: <8C87297F5A476D3-1118-34D35 mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.138 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69582 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: The String That Binds Status: O X-Status: If you thought you couldn't understand: http://www.tenthdimension.com/flash2.php Click on "Imagining the Tenth Dimension" From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 10 17:35:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6B0ZIZm011354; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:35:18 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6B0ZBva011303; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:35:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:35:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <001401c6a481$d8c28140$5bd8163f DFBGQZ91> From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" To: References: <000c01c6a2e7$5703cdd0$f7c4163f@DFBGQZ91> <44B1E40F.2010804@usfamily.net> Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Joe Cell again Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 20:34:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: <_UBG-D.A.bwC.9IvsEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69583 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "thomas malloy" To: Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 1:22 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Joe Cell again > It amazes me, Kyle and Fred, that having read the Joe Cell file, you > missed the point, which is that the energy involved is orgone or chi. I've > never seen orgone work, so all I can say is build the cell and see if it > works. If it does than someone deserves a trip to Stockholm, but given the > resistance to it, don't hold your breath. Hmmm. "Orgone" and "Chi" don't really impress me much....its about as much word salad at this point. Like ZPE and scalar, etc., someone took something that might have some basis in fact, and attached some things to it...and then the next person attached some things...ad infinatum. I wouldn't be suprised if maybe there is some reality to "scalar" things, and probably zero-point vacuum fluctuations, its possible. But there is so much "unformation" out there that the situation is in a real mess. Orgone and Chi seem even more out there. Can I build a device to detect/collect Orgone/Chi in a completely "hands down, no doubt, this is really the real thing" kind of way? If not, then I have my doubts. This should not be construed however to mean I am saying they don't exist; I am saying "we do not know yet." Reading on the Joe Cell I did find one rather disquieting note; that its success/failure can depend strongly on the user. Quote, "Human presence can affect the operation of the cell in a positive or negative way." I have something of a problem with that, in that this can all too easily be used to say of someone replicating this thing and finding that it does nothing, that "his negative feelings made it not work." In my experience as an experimenter, and there are those here that can vouch for me that I have indeed been involved in physics and electronic engineering research for many years, "negative feelings" can only affect the quality of what you are working on. Lack of food or sleep can muddy ones mind, as can anger or a long period of stress from something either internal or external to the given research project. This can cause mistakes to be made in wiring, design, or getting an incorrect idea on what is going on in a troublesome setup. They do not affect the experiment or its results directly! In my experience, the physics will stand or fall on its own, ones attitude does not change things. (I am not here addressing self-delusion however, which is something entirely different and to be guarded against for sure!) Also a note that the engine will run with all spark plugs removed as long as the coil and distributor are still functional. Doesn't this strike anyone as a little...abnormal? Or should that be...unrealistic? The only time an internal combustion engine will do this is if the valves are so covered in carbon that the carbon continues the ignition process for a very short period of time. It doesn't last for hours, or even minutes, mostly a few seconds. It mostly only occurs with older carbureted engines, as they will continue to supply gasoline as long as engine vacuum is provided...it is almost unheard of in newer, computer controlled fuel-injected engines. Hmm. If the water in the cell isn't consumed, what is running the engine? What is the exhaust product? Plain air? --Kyle From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 10 19:19:46 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6B2Ja7J031866; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 19:19:36 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6B2JYiS031837; Mon, 10 Jul 2006 19:19:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 19:19:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Joe Cell again Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:19:27 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3f26b2tagi12qsej3eq66f5tli37bmi9uj 4ax.com> References: <000c01c6a2e7$5703cdd0$f7c4163f@DFBGQZ91> <44B1E40F.2010804@usfamily.net> <001401c6a481$d8c28140$5bd8163f@DFBGQZ91> In-Reply-To: <001401c6a481$d8c28140$5bd8163f DFBGQZ91> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta04sl.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.67.77] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Tue, 11 Jul 2006 02:19:26 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6B2JUfM031795 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69584 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Kyle R. Mcallister's message of Mon, 10 Jul 2006 20:34:59 -0400: Hi Kyle, [snip] >Also a note that the engine will run with all spark plugs removed as long as >the coil and distributor are still functional. That bit I hadn't read. What do they use to plug up the spark plug holes? And where do the leads from the distributor then go? >Doesn't this strike anyone as >a little...abnormal? Or should that be...unrealistic? The only time an >internal combustion engine will do this is if the valves are so covered in >carbon that the carbon continues the ignition process for a very short >period of time. It doesn't last for hours, or even minutes, mostly a few >seconds. It mostly only occurs with older carbureted engines, as they will >continue to supply gasoline as long as engine vacuum is provided...it is >almost unheard of in newer, computer controlled fuel-injected engines. > >Hmm. If the water in the cell isn't consumed, what is running the engine? >What is the exhaust product? Plain air? Excellent questions, and clearly you are just the person to find out. Why not try it yourself, and straighten out some of the nonsense? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 11 00:10:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6B7A4aY023385; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 00:10:04 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6B79vWu023259; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 00:09:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 00:09:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060711070940543.849235800087 mwinf3114.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060711070940.009ade3c pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 08:09:40 +0100 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: [Vo]: How to See Your Big TOE Resent-Message-ID: <1GBznC.A.VrF.D70sEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69586 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:13 pm 10/07/2006 -0400, Terry wrote: >Build your own solar system: > >http://www.newscientistspace.com/article.ns?id=dn9484 > >"Mini solar system could reveal hidden dimensions > ... I notice that in one of the links in the above article: ======================================================== 13 things that do not make sense http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18524911.600 ======================================================== the 13th thingee is Cold Fusion which seems to be treated rather favourably. 8-) -------------------------------------------- "The snag is that fusion at room temperature is deemed impossible by every accepted scientific theory. 'That doesn't matter,' according to David Nagel, an engineer at George Washington University in Washington DC. 'Superconductors took 40 years to explain' he points out, so there's no reason to dismiss cold fusion. 'The experimental case is bulletproof,' he says. 'You can't make it go away.'" -------------------------------------------- Frank From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 11 00:10:35 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6B7A3m1023384; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 00:10:04 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6B79lUG022965; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 00:09:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 00:09:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060711070939304.4A4A15800087 mwinf3114.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060711070939.0099c238 pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 08:09:39 +0100 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: [Vo]: DOE's Top 100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6B79elv022762 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69585 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:58 pm 10/07/2006 -0400, Terry wrote: > Actually 101: > > http://www.er.doe.gov/sub/accomplishments/decades_discovery/decades.htm > > http://tinyurl.com/h42bn > > "U.S. Department of Energy's > Decades of Discovery > For the past two-and-a-half decades, > the Office of Science at the U.S. > Department of Energy has been at the > forefront of scientific discovery. > We asked our staff and colleagues to > help us identify 100 or so of the > most important discoveries supported > by the Office of Science. > > The following list of discoveries is > grouped by general discipline?the > numerical order is random and not > ranked by importance." >From #2 in the list I found something relevant to the Beta-atmosphere if "embedded" means what I presume it means, 8-) ============================================== "Research on the reactivity of hydrogen with catalysts—an issue in the world's largest- scale industrial processes, such as sulfur removal from crude oil-disproved the widely held belief that hydrogen molecules must dissociate into two atoms before undergoing reactions, and challenged the accepted notion that surface-bound (as opposed to embedded) hydrogen was the only reactive form." ============================================== Frank From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 11 10:45:00 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6BHWmms001321; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:44:45 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6BGxKsK010909; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 09:59:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 09:59:20 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <44B3B763.20304 usfamily.net> Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 09:36:19 -0500 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Joe Cell again References: <000c01c6a2e7$5703cdd0$f7c4163f@DFBGQZ91> <44B1E40F.2010804@usfamily.net> <001401c6a481$d8c28140$5bd8163f@DFBGQZ91> In-Reply-To: <001401c6a481$d8c28140$5bd8163f DFBGQZ91> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69587 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Kyle R. Mcallister wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- From: "thomas malloy" > >> It amazes me, Kyle and Fred, that having read the Joe Cell file, you >> missed the point, which is that the energy involved is orgone or chi. >> I've never seen orgone work, so all I can say is build the cell and >> see if it works. If it does than someone deserves a trip to >> Stockholm, but given the resistance to it, don't hold your breath. > > > Hmmm. > > "Orgone" and "Chi" don't really impress me much....its about as much > word salad at this point. I've been told that the energy used in the energy healing regims, accupuncture, reike and homeopathy is Chi. Homeopathy works for me, accupuncture works for many people. > Like ZPE and scalar, etc., someone took something that might have some > basis in fact, There are reports of nonorthogonal energy. There were three patents issued to a man named Gelinas for curl free magnetic vector waves. Hal Puthoff has one. Then there is the Ahronhoff Bohm paper, Phys. Rev. 1959. I assume that this is scalar energy. Following the posting of the URL for the ZPE motor, I hit Wikepedia searching for solitons, the results surprised me. A group of researchers had transfered massive amounts of information, per second, by solitons. Otto Schmitt believed that it would be possible to generate the electrodynamic equivelant of the tsunimi, I'm wondering if solitons going down an optical fiber qualifies? > But there is so much "unformation" out there that the situation is in > a real mess. True > Orgone and Chi seem even more out there. Can I build a device to > detect/collect Orgone/Chi in a completely "hands down, no doubt, When the subject of orgone first came up on this forum, I mentioned Reich's experiments with beach sand in an orgone accumulator. The sand had been heated to incandescense. When it was placed on steril growth medium it generated tiny objects that appeared to be living. Reich named them bions. He got a tan in the winter, with his lab coat on. The higher the frequency, the more energy per photon. If I had the wherewithall to experiment in this area I would. As for measuring it, did you notice the Orgone meter? > success/failure can depend strongly on the user. Quote, "Human > presence can affect the operation of the cell in a positive or > negative way." This is a tuned circuit, and the experimenter is a part of it. > I have something of a problem with that, in that this can all too > easily be "his negative feelings made it not work." In my experience > as an experimenter, and to be guarded against for sure!) I agree, it does seem hoky. > > Also a note that the engine will run with all spark plugs removed as > long as the coil and distributor are still functional. Doesn't this > strike anyone as a little...abnormal? Or should that be...unrealistic? That depends, if you plugged the spark plug holes, and then allowed an energy to be admitted with the air flow, that energy could cause the air to expand, causing the engine to turn over. > Hmm. If the water in the cell isn't consumed, what is running the > engine? What is the exhaust product? Plain air? Chi. --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 11 10:47:21 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6BHkmEV013018; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:47:12 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6BHcIxx005221; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:38:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:38:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060711123948.03f56b08 mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:40:35 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69589 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Messages not showing up Status: O X-Status: I have sent messages here that have not shown up. Did anyone see "COFE II conference announcement"? - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 11 10:47:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6BHkmEX013018; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:47:17 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6BHcL4b005280; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:38:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:38:20 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060711094621.03efd640 mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 09:47:34 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_595812==.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69590 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Status: O X-Status: --=====================_595812==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is from Integrity Research Institute, Thomas Valone 1) Second Conference on Future Energy - Breakthoughs Sept. 22-24 in DC area 2) COFE II Speaker Pages - Historic conference=20 features gifted energy scientists Ed. Note: This is special issue of Future=20 Energy eNews devoted to COFE II. ---------- 1) One New Energy Innovation Will Cause a Global Technology Transformation Thomas Valone, Integrity Research Institute,=20 http://users.erols.com/iri/cofe.html Washington DC (July 7, 2006) One of the only two=20 conferences this year on emerging energy will be=20 the Second International Conference on Future=20 Energy (COFE) to be held at the=20 Sheraton=20 College Park in the Washington DC area, September=20 22-24, 2006. It follows in the footsteps of the=20 controversial First International COFE in 1999,=20 which was too far ahead of its time for=20 Washington DC government agencies. The theme this=20 time is a global transformation that can be=20 anticipated from just one new clean energy=20 innovation that does not use fossil fuel and the=20 transformation of the third world from energy=20 medicine. The future energy areas representing=20 high payback and perhaps high risk investments in=20 emerging energy are field propulsion, fission &=20 fusion, space technologies, energy medicine,=20 tidal, hydrogen, solar power, magnetic motor, zero-point energy. Some of the inspiring scientists, doctors, and=20 inventors that will be presenting at COFE II are the following: Boyd Bushman, who worked for Lockheed, Hughes and=20 General Dynamics is one who has made many energy=20 and propulsion breakthroughs in his career (he=20 holds 26 patents). He invented a laser that=20 dissociates air to produce propulsion (US Patent=20 5,542,247 and 5,680,135) and also has found a way=20 to achieve flight using standing wave acoustics=20 (Patent 5,511,044). Boyd was featured on the=20 two-hour Discovery Channel special, =93The Billion=20 Dollar Secret=94 with journalist, Nick Cook, the=20 author of The Hunt for Zero Point. Dave Goodwin, a Physical Scientist/Engineer with=20 the U.S. Dept of Energy (DOE) since 1986, mostly=20 in the Offices of High Energy Physics and Nuclear=20 Physics, is an expert on the developments in=20 fission and fusion, including the controversial=20 International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor=20 (ITER). Dave was instrumental in providing=20 government funding for the discovery of the=20 accelerating galactic expansion, now called =93dark energy.=94 Jim Dunn, CEO of the NASA Center for=20 Technological Commercialization=20 (www.ctc.org) prides himself=20 in being able to find funding for energy=20 inventors, even on a large scale. Jim recently=20 participated in helping with the Tour de Sol car=20 race and many other projects, including hydrogen=20 fuel cell developments. Jim is also the first=20 person to run a plane using a fuel cell. Lynn Kenny, President of Beam Ray, LLC, holds the=20 largest collection of original equipment and=20 archives once owned by Royal Raymond Rife. He=20 also has received FDA approval for a Rife=20 technology electrotherapy device, utilizing=20 pulsed IR frequencies and will also be presenting=20 his findings at=20 www.rifeconference.com in October, 2006 George Miley, Professor of Nuclear and Electrical=20 Engineering at the University of Illinois and=20 Fusion Studies Lab Director=20 (http://fsl.ne.uiuc.edu)=20 from 1975 to the present, has also been a=20 consultant for Lawrence Livermore Laboratory,=20 Livermore, CA =95 Argonne National Laboratory,=20 Fusion Power Division =95 Los Alamos National=20 Laboratory =95 Dept. of Energy, Idaho Operations=20 Office =95 and Clean Energy Technologies. Recently,=20 George has been researching plasma focus fusion,=20 a new and exciting form of hot fusion and=20 presented the results at STAIF, the Space=20 Technologies Applications Information Forum. Paul=20 Koloc and Eric Lerner will also join a panel=20 discussion with George on the expectations for this energy technology. John Thomas, author of Antigravity: The Dream=20 Made Reality, a retired engineer from Kodak, is=20 the world=92s expert on John R. R. Searl=20 (www.sisrc.com) and the=20 =93Searl Effect.=94 Every time we talk, I learn more=20 significant details about the Searl Effect=20 Generator (SEG), which the Russian inventors,=20 Godin and Roshchin are replicating, as well as=20 the mysterious Inverse Gravity Vehicle (IGV).=20 John is also an expert on Searl=92s =93Law of the=20 Squares=94 which comprises a nine-volume set of=20 books explaining the necessary geometry to be=20 followed for control of the IGV=20 (www.searleffect.com).=20 John's talk will be the first public disclosure=20 of his wealth of knowledge of the original=20 experiments and theories of the legendary J.R.R. Searl. Russ George, founding partner of D2Fusion, Ltd.=20 (www.D2Fusion.com) is a=20 leader in the cutting edge of catalytic energy=20 science (cold fusion). He has developed a broad=20 expertise in related disciplines and believes=20 that solid-state fusion is the future of energy. Tania Slawecki, Materials Science Research=20 Professor at Pennsylvania State University, has=20 worked at NIST and served as Director of her=20 State=92s Center for Sustainability. She=20 specializes in future energy systems including=20 therapeutic electromagnetic devices. She=20 presented at the Whole Person Healing Conference last year here in DC. Ted Loder, Professor Emeritus of the University=20 of New Hampshire, has been working diligently on=20 the Spiral Magnetic Motor, which is the=20 magnetostatic-type that is designed to capitalize=20 on the =93magnetic gradient.=94 Ted and I are also=20 proposing to present a joint paper on the subject=20 at INTERMAG in Baltimore, January, 2006=20 www.magnetism.org on=20 this emerging energy technology. Thorsten Ludwig, President of the German=20 Association for Space Energy (GASE), he resides=20 in Berlin, Germany and is a spokesperson for=20 energy innovations in Europe. Recently completing=20 a PhD, his doctoral thesis was on the Casimir=20 Effect and zero point energy. He has participated=20 in the Casimir Force colloquia overseas and is a very inspiring speaker. Martin Burger, President and CEO of Blue Energy=20 Canada=20 www.bluenergy.com has=20 been involved in Tidal Power with his=20 vertical-axis Ocean Turbine for years. A 20 MW=20 unit operates in Nova Scotia and Blue Energy=20 recently has developed partnerships, such as with=20 the University of British Columbia, to form the=20 Ocean Renewable Energy Group that will attract new installations. Glen Gordon, MD, served in the US Navy and was an=20 Assistant Department Head at the National=20 Institute of Health. With a private practice in=20 Sports Medicine, he began investigating soft=20 tissue injuries in humans using nanosecond pulsed=20 electromagnetic field (nPEMF) technology in 1980.=20 Working with Dr. Donald Jaueisen for 20 years,=20 they were awarded the first patent granted on=20 nanosecond PEMF technology. Glen also used his=20 www.EM-Probe.com on=20 himself to successfully reverse a congestive=20 heart condition and eventually bicycle across the=20 country while conducting radio and TV interviews. Peter Hunt, Former Director of R & A for the=20 first House Subcommittee on Energy and Power, he=20 participated in the development of legislation=20 for NEPA, the Clean Air and Water Act, as well as=20 many other distinctions. Peter is an expert on=20 government mendacity and decades of sidestepping=20 energy solutions, since he lived through the=20 details of government energy solution experiences. Pal Asija, JD, is a patent lawyer and futurist=20 (www.ourpal.com) who is=20 interested in the role and impact of proprietary=20 information and patenting of emerging energy technologies. Invited Speakers not yet confirmed include: Woody Harrelson, actor=20 www.voiceyourself.com,=20 as well as Sergei Godin and Vladimir Roshchin,=20 Fabrizio Pinto, Kurt Van Voorhies, Bart Flick,=20 MD, Bob Lazar, Jean Louis Naudin, Rusi=20 Taleyarkin, John Sullivan, John Lear, and Paul Begany. COFE II is a two and a half day event with=20 plenary sessions the first full day, a buffet=20 award banquet and keynote speaker, followed by=20 parallel sessions on the second day. Exhibit=20 areas will feature many renewable energy and emerging energy technologies. --=====================_595812==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is from Integrity Research Institute, Thomas Valone <iri erols.com>

1) Second Conference on Future Energy - Breakthoughs Sept. 22-24 in DC area
2) COFE II Speaker Pages - Historic conference features gifted energy scientists
    Ed. Note: This is special issue of Future Energy eNews devoted to COFE II. 
1) One New Energy Innovation Will Cause a Global Technology Transformation

Thomas Valone, Integrity Research Institute, http://users.erols.com/iri/cofe.html

 

Washington DC (July 7, 2006)  One of the only two conferences this year on emerging energy will be the Second International Conference on Future Energy (COFE) to be held at the Sheraton College Park in the Washington DC area, September 22-24, 2006. It follows in the footsteps of the controversial First International COFE in 1999, which was too far ahead of its time for Washington DC government agencies. The theme this time is a global transformation that can be anticipated from just one new clean energy innovation that does not use fossil fuel and the transformation of the third world from energy medicine. The future energy areas representing high payback and perhaps high risk investments in emerging energy are field propulsion, fission & fusion, space technologies, energy medicine, tidal, hydrogen, solar power, magnetic motor, zero-point energy.

 Some of the inspiring scientists, doctors, and inventors that will be presenting at COFE II are the following:

Boyd Bushman, who worked for Lockheed, Hughes and General Dynamics is one who has made many energy and propulsion breakthroughs in his career (he holds 26 patents). He invented a laser that dissociates air to produce propulsion (US Patent 5,542,247 and 5,680,135) and also has found a way to achieve flight using standing wave acoustics (Patent 5,511,044). Boyd was featured on the two-hour Discovery Channel special, =93The Billion Dollar Secret=94 with journalist, Nick Cook, the author of The Hunt for Zero Point.

Dave Goodwin, a Physical Scientist/Engineer with the U.S. Dept of Energy (DOE) since 1986, mostly in the Offices of High Energy Physics and Nuclear Physics, is an expert on the developments in fission and fusion, including the controversial International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor (ITER). Dave was instrumental in providing government funding for the discovery of the accelerating galactic expansion, now called =93dark energy.=94

Jim Dunn, CEO of the NASA Center for Technological Commercialization (www.ctc.org) prides himself in being able to find funding for energy inventors, even on a large scale. Jim recently participated in helping with the Tour de Sol car race and many other projects, including hydrogen fuel cell developments. Jim is also the first person to run a plane using a fuel cell.

Lynn Kenny, President of Beam Ray, LLC, holds the largest collection of original equipment and archives once owned by Royal Raymond Rife. He also has received FDA approval for a Rife technology electrotherapy device, utilizing pulsed IR frequencies and will also be presenting his findings at www.rifeconference.com in October, 2006

George Miley, Professor of Nuclear and Electrical Engineering at the University of Illinois and Fusion Studies Lab Director (http://fsl.ne.uiuc.edu) from 1975 to the present, has also been a consultant for Lawrence Livermore Laboratory, Livermore, CA =95 Argonne National Laboratory, Fusion Power Division =95 Los Alamos National Laboratory =95 Dept. of Energy, Idaho Operations Office =95 and Clean Energy Technologies. Recently, George has been researching plasma focus fusion, a new and exciting form of hot fusion and presented the results at STAIF, the Space Technologies Applications Information Forum. Paul Koloc and Eric Lerner will also join a panel discussion with George on the expectations for this energy technology. 

John Thomas, author of Antigravity: The Dream Made Reality, a retired engineer from Kodak, is the world=92s expert on John R. R. Searl (www.sisrc.com) and the =93Searl Effect.=94 Every time we talk, I learn more significant details about the Searl Effect Generator (SEG), which the Russian inventors, Godin and Roshchin are replicating, as well as the mysterious Inverse Gravity Vehicle (IGV). John is also an expert on Searl=92s =93Law of the Squares=94 which comprises a nine-volume set of books explaining the necessary geometry to be followed for control of the IGV (www.searleffect.com). John's talk will be the first public disclosure of his wealth of knowledge of the original experiments and theories of the legendary J.R.R. Searl.

Russ George, founding partner of D2Fusion, Ltd. (www.D2Fusion.com) is a leader in the cutting edge of catalytic energy science (cold fusion). He has developed a broad expertise in related disciplines and believes that solid-state fusion is the future of energy.

Tania Slawecki, Materials Science Research Professor at Pennsylvania State University, has worked at NIST and served as Director of her State=92s Center for Sustainability. She specializes in future energy systems including therapeutic electromagnetic devices. She presented at the Whole Person Healing Conference last year here in DC.

Ted Loder, Professor Emeritus of the University of New Hampshire, has been working diligently on the Spiral Magnetic Motor, which is the magnetostatic-type that is designed to capitalize on the =93magnetic gradient.=94 Ted and I are also proposing to present a joint paper on the subject at INTERMAG in Baltimore, January, 2006 www.magnetism.org on this emerging energy technology.

Thorsten Ludwig, President of the German Association for Space Energy (GASE), he resides in Berlin, Germany and is a spokesperson for energy innovations in Europe. Recently completing a PhD, his doctoral thesis was on the Casimir Effect and zero point energy. He has participated in the Casimir Force colloquia overseas and is a very inspiring speaker.

Martin Burger, President and CEO of Blue Energy Canada www.bluenergy.com has been involved in Tidal Power with his vertical-axis Ocean Turbine for years. A 20 MW unit operates in Nova Scotia and Blue Energy recently has developed partnerships, such as with the University of British Columbia, to form the Ocean Renewable Energy Group that will attract new installations.

Glen Gordon, MD, served in the US Navy and was an Assistant Department Head at the National Institute of Health. With a private practice in Sports Medicine, he began investigating soft tissue injuries in humans using nanosecond pulsed electromagnetic field (nPEMF) technology in 1980. Working with Dr. Donald Jaueisen for 20 years, they were awarded the first patent granted on nanosecond PEMF technology. Glen also used his www.EM-Probe.com on himself to successfully reverse a congestive heart condition and eventually bicycle across the country while conducting radio and TV interviews.

Peter Hunt, Former Director of R & A for the first House Subcommittee on Energy and Power, he participated in the development of legislation for NEPA, the Clean Air and Water Act, as well as many other distinctions. Peter is an expert on government mendacity and decades of sidestepping energy solutions, since he lived through the details of government energy solution experiences.

Pal Asija, JD, is a patent lawyer and futurist (www.ourpal.com) who is interested in the role and impact of proprietary information and patenting of emerging energy technologies.

Invited Speakers not yet confirmed include:

Woody Harrelson, actor www.voiceyourself.com, as well as Sergei Godin and Vladimir Roshchin, Fabrizio Pinto, Kurt Van Voorhies, Bart Flick, MD, Bob Lazar, Jean Louis Naudin, Rusi Taleyarkin, John Sullivan, John Lear, and Paul Begany.

 

COFE II is a two and a half day event with plenary sessions the first full day, a buffet award banquet and keynote speaker, followed by parallel sessions on the second day. Exhibit areas will feature many renewable energy and emerging energy technologies.
--=====================_595812==.ALT-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 11 10:50:34 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6BHCj0R020250; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:12:46 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6BHCeZ4020158; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:12:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:12:36 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Gj0wEqImsDhx0hgcn5vhqmkl273wKdKMo8ZDQDgXOSQaBiPXS0QEXQJIPK/KHKW/; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200672111702238 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 11:00:22 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940b42369310b87db0714192363366d3a97350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.97 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69588 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re; Biodiesel Grows on Trees Too Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/duke_energy/Jatropha_curcas.html "Per 100 g, the seed is reported to contain 6.6 g H2O, 18.2 g protein, 38.0 g fat, 33.5 g total carbohydrate, 15.5 g fiber, and 4.5 g ash (Duke and Atchley, 1983). Leaves, which show antileukemic activity, contain a-amyrin, b-sitosterol, stigmasterol, and campesterol, 7-keto-b-sitosterol, stigmast-5-ene-3-b, 7-a-diol, and stigmast-5-ene-3 b, 7 b-diol (Morton, 1981). Leaves contain isovitexin and vitexin. From the drug (nut?) saccharose, raffinose, stachyose, glucose, fructose, galactose, protein, and an oil, largely of oleic- and linoleic-acids (List and Horhammer, 1969–1979), curcasin, arachidic-, linoleic-, myristic-, oleic-, palmitic-, and stearic-acids are also reported (Perry, 1980)." "According to Gaydou et al (1982), seed yields approach 6–8 MT/ha with ca 37% oil. They calculate that such yields could produce the equivalent of 2,100–2,800 liters fuel oil/ha (see table under Energy). In Madagascar, they have ca 10,000 ha of purging nut, each producing ca 24 hl oil/ha for a potential production of 240,000 hl (Gaydou, et al, 1982). Energy The clear oil expressed from the seed has been used for illumination and lubricating, and more recently has been suggested for energetic purposes, one ton of nuts yielding 70 kg refined petroleum, 40 kg "gasoil leger" (light fuel oil), 40 kg regular fuel oil, 34 kg dry tar/pitch/rosin, 270 kg coke-like char, and 200 kg ammoniacal water, natural gas, creosote, etc. In a startling study, Gaydou et al. (1982) compare several possible energy species with potential to grow in Malagasy. Oil palm was considered energetically most promising." ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

 
 
 
"Per 100 g, the seed is reported to contain 6.6 g H2O, 18.2 g protein, 38.0 g fat, 33.5 g total carbohydrate, 15.5 g fiber, and 4.5 g ash (Duke and Atchley, 1983). Leaves, which show antileukemic activity, contain a-amyrin, b-sitosterol, stigmasterol, and campesterol, 7-keto-b-sitosterol, stigmast-5-ene-3-b, 7-a-diol, and stigmast-5-ene-3 b, 7 b-diol (Morton, 1981). Leaves contain isovitexin and vitexin. From the drug (nut?) saccharose, raffinose, stachyose, glucose, fructose, galactose, protein, and an oil, largely of oleic- and linoleic-acids (List and Horhammer, 1969–1979), curcasin, arachidic-, linoleic-, myristic-, oleic-, palmitic-, and stearic-acids are also reported (Perry, 1980)."
"According to Gaydou et al (1982), seed yields approach 6–8 MT/ha with ca 37% oil. They calculate that such yields could produce the equivalent of 2,100–2,800 liters fuel oil/ha (see table under Energy). In Madagascar, they have ca 10,000 ha of purging nut, each producing ca 24 hl oil/ha for a potential production of 240,000 hl (Gaydou, et al, 1982).

Energy

The clear oil expressed from the seed has been used for illumination and lubricating, and more recently has been suggested for energetic purposes, one ton of nuts yielding 70 kg refined petroleum, 40 kg "gasoil leger" (light fuel oil), 40 kg regular fuel oil, 34 kg dry tar/pitch/rosin, 270 kg coke-like char, and 200 kg ammoniacal water, natural gas, creosote, etc. In a startling study, Gaydou et al. (1982) compare several possible energy species with potential to grow in Malagasy. Oil palm was considered energetically most promising."
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 11 11:36:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6BIaTLI018280; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 11:36:29 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6BIaQeS018258; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 11:36:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 11:36:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:36:17 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net Message-Id: <8C8733007EDEED0-162C-2D53E mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.131 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6BIaNsq018211 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69591 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: French Fashion Does What Detroit Can't Status: O X-Status: http://www.gizmag.com/go/5844/1/ "High performance Electric Vehicle from the team that gave us the MINI (skirt that is) July 10, 2006 The Zoop is a high performance 150 kW three seat electric car that weighs just 690 kilograms and has a range of 450 kilometres. It won a special award at the recent international sustainable mobility event, the Michelin Bibendum Challenge for its extreme performance. Remarkably, the Zooop is not the product of an automotive manufacturer, or even an automotive design house. It is the third fully-operative EV prototype produced by globally renowned Paris-based fashion design house Maison de Courrèges and has had very little publicity outside of the car's native France." From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 11 11:38:18 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6BIbhMc019359; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 11:37:43 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6BIbeBo019324; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 11:37:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 11:37:40 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060711183736287.462BA4800083 mwinf3107.me.freeserve.com Reply-To: From: "Patrick Vessey" To: Subject: RE: [Vo]: Re: Joe Cell again Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 19:40:55 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <44B3B763.20304 usfamily.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4920.2300 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <2RdMH.A.ytE.z_-sEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69592 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > Kyle wrote: > > > > Orgone and Chi seem even more out there. Can I build a device to > > detect/collect Orgone/Chi in a completely "hands down, no doubt, > > Thomas wrote: > > When the subject of orgone first came up on this forum, I mentioned > Reich's experiments with beach sand in an orgone accumulator. The sand > had been heated to incandescense. When it was placed on steril growth > medium it generated tiny objects that appeared to be living. Reich named > them bions. He got a tan in the winter, with his lab coat on. The higher > the frequency, the more energy per photon. If I had the wherewithall to > experiment in this area I would. As for measuring it, did you notice the > Orgone meter? In my own research into the Joe cell, I felt duty bound to not dismiss out of hand the widely proselytised view that it is powered by orgone energy. Consequently, I've spent a lot of time wading through an awful lot of guff on the 'net about Reich. If you start digging, you'll find that orgone theory tends to be wrapped up with all kinds of 'hokum' on the web. For anyone interested in the theory, rather than some New Age reinterpretation of it, I'd suggest going back to source - Reich's 'The Cancer Biopathy' contains a pretty good overview of his basic orgone theory, including information on how to construct accumulators and orgone measuring instruments. It's written for the layman, so even I could follow it... On the web, the most useful site that I've come across is DeMeo's, at http://www.orgonelab.org. Incidentally, there are a few interesting articles there on Dayton Miller's experiments on aether drift, if you dig around a bit. One of the big challenges with Reich - as is evidenced by DeMeo's site - is the integration into his theories of the central role of sexuality and, in particular, the function of the orgasm. This aspect has been played upon by his critics over time; however, I'd suggest that not only does his basic orgone theory stand without any involvement of sexuality, but a slight obsession with sex is understandable from someone who worked with Freud... To balance things out a bit, http://home.netcom.com/~rogermw/Reich/index.html is well worth a visit for a sceptical viewpoint. Most of it will make sense even without reading Reich's original works, but none of you here would just accept the sceptical viewpoint without considering all of the evidence, would you? ;-) Patrick -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/385 - Release Date: 11/07/2006 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 11 12:23:24 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6BJN2iL023436; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:23:02 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6BJN0nk023407; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:23:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:22:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <002901c6a51f$694bc3a0$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <410-2200672111702238 earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:22:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: <9FSX5B.A.mtF.Tq_sEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69593 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Biodiesel Grows on Trees Status: O X-Status: Fred, Apparently this is a tall shrub or small tree - with lots of nuts used for fuel and medicine in Africa and Asia. Said to cure both cancer and hemmoroids so if you plant an acre of it - and it doesn't work out for powering your car - hey, you set up a small patent-medicine business or save a bundle on "Preparation H" Curiously - the common name is "Physic nut" which might make it perfect for Vortex Getting a little more serious - "According to Gaydou et al (1982), seed yields approach 6-8 MT (metric tonnes)/ha with ca 37% oil. They calculate that such yields could produce the equivalent of 2,100-2,800 liters fuel oil/ha . OK that would be about 200 gallons per acre - mas o menos - which is about what would be needed per year per automobile for the average in the USA (15,000 miles/yr) - which is calculated based on proven results of the hybrid-diesel with HydroBooster (onboard hydrogen generator). Adding even small amounts of hydrogen to diesel combustion seems to be especially synergetic. Unfortunately - this shrub is probably not frost-tolerant - now. If some dedicated biochemist got to work on bioenegineering it however - how knows? A brief googling for 'Frost tolerance' indicates that the plant genes for this have been identified - so perhaps bioengineering it is not too far removed from practicality? Jones From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 11 12:40:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6BJdx84032534; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:40:00 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6BJdsxX032462; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:39:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:39:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: RE: [Vo]: Re: Biodiesel Grows on Trees Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:39:48 -0500 Message-ID: <41F9A95B5C164E45B5D900F94628E1C243715D CCUMAIL33.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Vo]: Re: Biodiesel Grows on Trees Thread-Index: AcalICw7nBtwPPfGTEaABiy+tNLavwAAUZMg From: "Zell, Chris" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jul 2006 19:39:47.0584 (UTC) FILETIME=[C47FA000:01C6A521] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6BJdnc4032377 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69594 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I don't remember the exact article, I think it was published many years ago in Science News. Some guy in Brazil discovered a "diesel fuel" tree. Apparently, there's some tropical tree whose sap is so oily, you can tap it and pour it directly into your truck tank. -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene [mailto:jonesb9 pacbell.net] Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 3:23 PM To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Biodiesel Grows on Trees Fred, Apparently this is a tall shrub or small tree - with lots of nuts used for fuel and medicine in Africa and Asia. Said to cure both cancer and hemmoroids so if you plant an acre of it - and it doesn't work out for powering your car - hey, you set up a small patent-medicine business or save a bundle on "Preparation H" Curiously - the common name is "Physic nut" which might make it perfect for Vortex Getting a little more serious - "According to Gaydou et al (1982), seed yields approach 6-8 MT (metric tonnes)/ha with ca 37% oil. They calculate that such yields could produce the equivalent of 2,100-2,800 liters fuel oil/ha . OK that would be about 200 gallons per acre - mas o menos - which is about what would be needed per year per automobile for the average in the USA (15,000 miles/yr) - which is calculated based on proven results of the hybrid-diesel with HydroBooster (onboard hydrogen generator). Adding even small amounts of hydrogen to diesel combustion seems to be especially synergetic. Unfortunately - this shrub is probably not frost-tolerant - now. If some dedicated biochemist got to work on bioenegineering it however - how knows? A brief googling for 'Frost tolerance' indicates that the plant genes for this have been identified - so perhaps bioengineering it is not too far removed from practicality? Jones From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 11 13:56:17 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6BKr3dq014177; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:56:09 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6BKgZ0x007326; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:42:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:42:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060711164206.03f7b950 mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:42:27 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69595 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: COFE II conference announcement Status: O X-Status: Test message to see if heading is missing. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 11 14:07:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6BL6eSU022892; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:06:40 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6BL6ctF022864; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:06:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:06:38 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=N9hJGocDIRTtOmxIICeayJuA1b16GHHV98lknATVCXuTskZP1xPMhL06O1E7AR26; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006721121622970 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]: Re: Biodiesel Grows on Trees Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 15:06:22 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9407f79cc5f2e6b50fc1d41e600748070bd350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.45 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69596 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Had you looked a little closer, Jones, Ricinus communis (Castor bean "trees") grow quite well in temperate climates. I grew one in my "gopher war" years. Beware of the Ricin byproduct though. http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/duke_energy/Jatropha_curcas.html "Ricinus communis 3–5 MT/hectare 1,200–2,000 Liters/Hectare 11,300–18,900 kwh/hectare" "Jatropha curcas 6–8 MT/hectare 2,100–2,800 Liters/hectare 19,800–26,400 kwh/hectare" Fred Jones Beene wrote. > > Fred, > > Apparently this is a tall shrub or small tree - with lots of nuts > used for fuel and medicine in Africa and Asia. Said to cure both > cancer and hemmoroids so if you plant an acre of it - and it > doesn't work out for powering your car - hey, you set up a small > patent-medicine business or save a bundle on "Preparation H" > > > Curiously - the common name is "Physic nut" which might make it > perfect for Vortex > > Getting a little more serious - "According to Gaydou et al (1982), > seed yields approach 6-8 MT (metric tonnes)/ha with ca 37% oil. > They calculate that such yields could produce the equivalent of > 2,100-2,800 liters fuel oil/ha . > > OK that would be about 200 gallons per acre - mas o menos - which > is about what would be needed per year per automobile for the > average in the USA (15,000 miles/yr) - which is calculated based > on proven results of the hybrid-diesel with HydroBooster (onboard > hydrogen generator). Adding even small amounts of hydrogen to > diesel combustion seems to be especially synergetic. > > Unfortunately - this shrub is probably not frost-tolerant - now. > > If some dedicated biochemist got to work on bioenegineering it > however - how knows? A brief googling for 'Frost tolerance' > indicates that the plant genes for this have been identified - so > perhaps bioengineering it is not too far removed from > practicality? > > Jones From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 11 14:12:06 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6BLBwwg025507; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:11:58 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6BLBu9l025478; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:11:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:11:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=bncuz87VSxcvJdBQG0Zi04LXXV6j0R1ofB0wJv/nXghR4Z7VzuHuMYpXazia6P4ZzDOAT+YT9c+izwSz0afmb6h2bxNSiGjyLmGeGYO9m8bgBgIiMps4Yx/p+zJI8cxTIwN+88L7Nz0kpyDDv+reWFsKnI4uTtBshWbfaN76z04= ; Message-ID: <20060711211154.55234.qmail web33314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:11:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Arnold Subject: Re: [Vo]: COFE II conference announcement To: vortex-l eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060711164206.03f7b950 mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-927049228-1152652314=:54807" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69597 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --0-927049228-1152652314=:54807 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I see that George Miley is now actually interested in Dense Plasma Focus (DPF), however when I contacted him in 2001 to review my DPF device in action - he had no such interest. Chris Arnold http://users.erols.com/iri/cofe.html Jed Rothwell wrote: Test message to see if heading is missing. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. --0-927049228-1152652314=:54807 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I see that George Miley is now actually interested in Dense Plasma Focus (DPF), however when I contacted him in 2001 to review my DPF device in action - he had no such interest.
 
Chris Arnold
 
http://users.erols.com/iri/cofe.html

Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell mindspring.com> wrote:
Test message to see if heading is missing.



Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. --0-927049228-1152652314=:54807-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 11 14:40:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6BLeCLV012563; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:40:13 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6BLeBGL012548; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:40:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:40:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=KRX684uvffdiJVZWuEpe3umFjpRDejqNnB25wcSCjh4JGgEOWZJg0CwmWFPxZQca; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006721121400821 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 15:40:00 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940d4a7548dcd0212832aa3d815e20af209350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.236 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69598 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Biodiesel Grows on Trees Too Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII As a kid I had more than my share of Castor Oil. http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/duke_energy/Ricinus_communis.html#Toxicity "Castorbean is cultivated for the seeds which yield a fast-drying, non-yellowing oil, used mainly in industry and medicines. Oil used in coating fabrics and other protective coverings, in the manufacture of high-grade lubricants, transparent typewriter and printing inks, in textile dyeing (when converted into sulfonated Castor Oil or Turkey-Red Oil, for dyeing cotton fabrics with alizarine), in leather preservation, and in the production of 'Rilson', a polyamide nylon-type fiber. Dehydrated oil is an excellent drying agent which compares favorably with tung oil and is used in paints and varnishes. Hydrogenated oil is utilized in the manufacture of waxes, polishes, carbon paper, candles and crayons. 'Blown Oil' is used for grinding lacquer paste colors, and when hydrogenated and sulfonated used for preparation of ointments. Castor Oil Pomace, the residue after crushing, is used as a high-nitrogen fertilizer. Although it is highly toxic due to the ricin, a method of detoxicating the meal has now been found, so that it can safely be fed to livestock. Stems are made into paper and wallboard (Reed, 1976)." ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

As a kid I had more than my share of Castor Oil.
 
 
"Castorbean is cultivated for the seeds which yield a fast-drying, non-yellowing oil, used mainly in industry and medicines. Oil used in coating fabrics and other protective coverings, in the manufacture of high-grade lubricants, transparent typewriter and printing inks, in textile dyeing (when converted into sulfonated Castor Oil or Turkey-Red Oil, for dyeing cotton fabrics with alizarine), in leather preservation, and in the production of 'Rilson', a polyamide nylon-type fiber. Dehydrated oil is an excellent drying agent which compares favorably with tung oil and is used in paints and varnishes. Hydrogenated oil is utilized in the manufacture of waxes, polishes, carbon paper, candles and crayons. 'Blown Oil' is used for grinding lacquer paste colors, and when hydrogenated and sulfonated used for preparation of ointments. Castor Oil Pomace, the residue after crushing, is used as a high-nitrogen fertilizer. Although it is highly toxic due to the ricin, a method of detoxicating the meal has now been found, so that it can safely be fed to livestock. Stems are made into paper and wallboard (Reed, 1976)."
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 11 14:46:40 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6BLkVXG016442; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:46:32 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6BLkUUc016415; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:46:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:46:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <004e01c6a533$72789ca0$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <41F9A95B5C164E45B5D900F94628E1C243715D CCUMAIL33.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Biodiesel Grows on Trees Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:46:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69599 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zell, Chris" >I don't remember the exact article, I think it was published many >years > ago in Science News. Some guy in Brazil discovered a "diesel > fuel" > tree. > Apparently, there's some tropical tree whose sap is so oily, you > can tap > it and pour it directly into your truck tank. Hmmm...Googling for this - there is the Pongamia pinnata of India, which goes by several names: Honge, Pinnata, or Karanjia. Here is a good site for diodiesel: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_link.html Jatropha --- seems to be the best choice found so far - it is quick growning - a huge advantage. Pongamia is a slow growth tree taking many years to mature. Jatropha Curcas can produce seeds in as little as 15 months from planting seedlings. I don't know about Castor oil, but the poisonous part does not bode well in the age of terrorism - and as it is a perrenial it would need to be replanted every year. Best of all - there is supposed to be a frost tolerant variety of Jatropha Curcas growing in the mountains of Parana Brazil. But I have not found any information on the detials of growing it in the USA. Without a doubt, a high yield frost resistant variety of Jatropha Curcas could revolutionize the oil seed farming industry around the world (assuring the long term success of biodiesel). Somewhat surprising that China hasn't gotten into this niche, but perhaps they have enough trouble just feeding the masses. Another interesting site: http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2005/september/biodiesel.htm From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 11 15:15:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6BMFcjQ032550; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 15:15:38 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6BMFbZX032530; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 15:15:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 15:15:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 18:16:10 -0500 From: Harry Veeder In-reply-to: <004e01c6a533$72789ca0$6401a8c0 NuDell> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: <59g0bC.A.A8H.JMCtEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69600 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: bacteria and oil Status: O X-Status: I've heard of bacteria eating oil...has bacteria been engineered to excrete oil? Harry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 11 15:41:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6BMfGk2012107; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 15:41:16 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6BMfErB012089; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 15:41:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 15:41:14 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <006401c6a53b$1c737520$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 15:41:11 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69601 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: bacteria and oil Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Veeder" > I've heard of bacteria eating oil...has bacteria been engineered > to excrete oil? The hottest area of biodiesel R&D is Algae-based. Without getting too fine a distinction, Algae and bacteria are both single-celled and so close that who cares about the difference ? Most curious - in the semantics of this - is that technically, one prime candidate organism for biodiesel is not a true algae - that is what is commonly referred to as blue-green algae - which is a cyanobacteria. So the answer is yes - bacteria/algae is the true future of biodiesel - because in most cases we are not doing the morally reprehensible thing - which is substituting food crops for energy. In fact - if there is an oil-nut that produces 35% diesel oil, then even the 65% of waste can serve as the "food" for bacteria in order to give a yield of near 100% of the total biomass. Hopefully. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 11 16:19:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6BNJmuP027579; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:19:48 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6BNJlmv027563; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:19:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:19:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 19:19:40 -0400 Message-Id: <8C873579E832618-152C-A1B mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060711094621.03efd640 mindspring.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060711094621.03efd640 mindspring.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Subject: Re: [Vo]: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.130 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6BNJkhx027540 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69602 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jed Rothwell Ted Loder, Professor Emeritus of the University of New Hampshire, has been working diligently on the Spiral Magnetic Motor, which is the magnetostatic-type that is designed to capitalize on the "magnetic gradient." Ted and I are also proposing to present a joint paper on the subject at INTERMAG in Baltimore, January, 2006 www.magnetism.org on this emerging energy technology. <><><><><> Vorts would be wise to examine Dr. Theodore C. Loder III's claims in light of the Sprain Magmo, including his relationship with seaspower.com. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 11 16:27:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6BNRGnr032226; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:27:17 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6BNREYF032198; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:27:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:27:14 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=o7AUhU6XtJcOXJPazEOSNhP4fTzuRFhnhE22JrwkKGn5jFZ3nvzZLAazzYh9R7MJ; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006721123270885 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]: Re: bacteria and oil Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 17:27:00 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94000830042ffba138b6ef3b74930a15a79350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.25 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69603 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: BTW, since the plant/algae oils have 14 or more (CH2) units plus the C3H5 glyceryl unit they can be thermally cracked to gasoline, possibly easier than doping transesterfication. One might "Cat Crack" the algae in a roasting oven set to "Broil". Fred Jones Beene wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Harry Veeder" > > > I've heard of bacteria eating oil...has bacteria been engineered > > to excrete oil? > > > The hottest area of biodiesel R&D is Algae-based. > > Without getting too fine a distinction, Algae and bacteria are > both single-celled and so close that who cares about the > difference ? > > Most curious - in the semantics of this - is that technically, one > prime candidate organism for biodiesel is not a true algae - that > is what is commonly referred to as blue-green algae - which is a > cyanobacteria. > > So the answer is yes - bacteria/algae is the true future of > biodiesel - because in most cases we are not doing the morally > reprehensible thing - which is substituting food crops for energy. > > In fact - if there is an oil-nut that produces 35% diesel oil, > then even the 65% of waste can serve as the "food" for bacteria in > order to give a yield of near 100% of the total biomass. > > Hopefully. > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 11 16:38:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6BNc90o004517; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:38:10 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6BNc7Xj004492; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:38:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:38:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <001801c6a543$09ae7d60$640fa8c0 MIKEBY3NR533HT> From: "Mike Carrell" To: References: Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 19:14:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69604 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: bacteria and oil Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Veeder" Subject: [Vo]: bacteria and oil > I've heard of bacteria eating oil...has bacteria been engineered > to excrete oil? > > Harry Read "The Deep Hot Biosphere" by Thomas Gold. *The* source of petroleum may be bacteria living deep in the earth's mantle. Mike Carrell > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This Email has been scanned for all viruses by Medford Leas I.T. > Department. > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 11 17:32:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6C0WiLK001683; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 17:32:44 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6C0OAQj030087; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 17:24:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 17:24:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 20:23:55 -0400 Message-Id: <8C873609856DDF4-19C-2BBBF mblkn-m14.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <001801c6a543$09ae7d60$640fa8c0@MIKEBY3NR533HT> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <001801c6a543$09ae7d60$640fa8c0 MIKEBY3NR533HT> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: bacteria and oil Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.132 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6C0O5mv030002 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69605 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Mike Carrell Read "The Deep Hot Biosphere" by Thomas Gold. *The* source of petroleum may be bacteria living deep in the earth's mantle.  <><><><><> The material is likely true; but, the claim to fame belongs to Russia. http://www.gasresources.net/Gold_plagiarism(complaints).htm When did we last look down almost 10 miles for black gold? Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 11 17:50:33 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6C0o8lU009208; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 17:50:08 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6C0o3CR009164; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 17:50:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 17:50:02 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 20:50:34 -0500 From: Harry Veeder To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6C0nv9A009108 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69606 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Wires from bacteria Status: O X-Status: RICHLAND, Wash. ­ When Yuri Gorby discovered that a microbe which transforms toxic metals can sprout tiny electrically conductive wires from its cell membrane, he reasoned this anatomical oddity and its metal-changing physiology must be related... http://www.pnl.gov/news/release.asp?id=171 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 11 19:02:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6C220ck016655; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 19:02:00 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6C21wgp016635; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 19:01:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 19:01:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <68A34DFE87D0BE46AF898FFCC65CCF8438F46B caraupermb02.carrier-apac.com.au> From: John.Rudiger carrier.utc.com To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]: Messages not showing up Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:00:19 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69607 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Jed, Yeah, I got it, came through 4.45am my time in Perth Western Australia. Regards, John Rudiger TOTALINE Spare Parts Perth WA Ph:- 08 9232 7150 Fax:- 08 9232 7155 -----Original Message----- From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:JedRothwell mindspring.com] Sent: Wednesday, 12 July 2006 12:41 AM To: vortex-L eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Messages not showing up I have sent messages here that have not shown up. Did anyone see "COFE II conference announcement"? - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 11 20:41:54 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6C3fMla025517; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 20:41:23 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6C3fKLV025499; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 20:41:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 20:41:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <008901c6a565$0710cfa0$0302a8c0 DONWDESKTOP> Reply-To: "DonW" From: "DonW" To: Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:38:30 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69608 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Focus Fusion Society X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends3 Status: RO X-Status: Focus Fusion Society http://www.focusfusion.org/index.html Welcome from the Focus Fusion Society Has the Energy Crisis got you down? Are you worried about global warming, the economy, "war for oil"? Don't like being asked to choose between preserving the arctic refuge or building nuclear reactors? Would you like to live in a world with unlimited, cheap, safe, clean energy with prosperity and affluence for all? If you answered "yes" to these questions, then you should know that there is a novel solution to these problems called "Focus Fusion." The goal of the Focus Fusion Society is to turn the dream of safe, cheap, clean, unlimited energy from nuclear fusion into a practical reality, to do it as soon as possible, and to ensure that this technology is made available to all mankind. We will pursue this goal by developing the Plasma Focus Device for hydrogen-boron nuclear fusion. To finance the research needed, we will raise funds from the general public and publicize the need for government funding of research aimed at developing this ideal energy source. We believe that: hydrogen-boron fusion is the "Energy of the Present"; the Plasma Focus Device is a practical means to harness hydrogen-boron fusion; and with your help we can build the Plasma Focus Device, prove that fusion works, and propel humanity into a new era. Our confidence is based on solid theoretical work and experiments that have achieved temperatures of over a billion degrees. The successful development of Focus Fusion Energy will: eliminate the environmental destruction of fossil fuel use, reduce global carbon emissions and therefore, global warming, free the world economy from the crushing burden of high energy prices, eliminate the continual wars aimed at maintaining control of oil resources, give to everyone decentralized, small-scale power, eliminating corporate control of energy, provide the cheap energy needed to eliminate world poverty, make possible a new space propulsion system that will radically cheapen and speed space exploration, free the world from 19th-century energy sources and provide power for the Third Millennium. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 11 21:12:06 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6C4BY2C004020; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:11:35 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6C4BWCB003998; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:11:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:11:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00a001c6a569$3f130cc0$0302a8c0 DONWDESKTOP> Reply-To: "DonW" From: "DonW" To: Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 22:08:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: <2MqjDB.A.T-.zZHtEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69609 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Fusion System for Future Military Aerospace Vehicles X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends3 Status: RO X-Status: One of the authors of this paper is George Miley -DonW- http://stinet.dtic.mil/oai/oai?&verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA446973 Accession Number : ADA446973 Title : Propulsion and Power Generation Capabilities of a Dense Plasma Focus (DPF) Fusion System for Future Military Aerospace Vehicles (POSTPRINT) Descriptive Note : Conference Paper Corporate Author : AIR FORCE RESEARCH LAB EDWARDS AFB CA PROPULSION DIRECTORATE Personal Author(s) : Knecht, Sean D. ; Mead, Franklin B. ; Thomas, Robert E. ; Miley, George H. ; Froning, David Handle / proxy Url : http://handle.dtic.mil/100.2/ADA446973 Check NTIS Availability... Report Date : 06 OCT 2005 Pagination or Media Count : 8 Abstract : The objective of this study was to perform a parametric evaluation of the performance and interface characteristics of a dense plasma focus (DPF) fusion system in support of a USAF advanced military aerospace vehicle concept study. This vehicle is an aerospace plane that combines clean "aneutronic" dense plasma focus (DPF) fusion power and propulsion technology, with advanced "waverider"-like airframe configurations utilizing air-breathing MHD propulsion and power technology within a reusable single-stage-to-orbit vehicle. The applied approach was to evaluate the fusion system details (geometry, power, T/W, system mass, etc.) of a baseline p-11B DPF propulsion device with Q = 3.0 and thruster efficiency, eta prop = 90% for a range of thrust, Isp and capacitor specific energy values. The baseline details were then kept constant and the values of Q and eta prop were varied to evaluate excess power generation for communication systems, pulsed-train plasmoid weapons, ultrahigh-power lasers, shielding/cloaking devices and gravity or time-distorting devices. Thrust values were varied between 100 kN and 1,000 kN with Isp of 1,500 s and 2,000 s, while capacitor specific energy was varied from 1 - 15 kJ/kg. Q was varied from 3.0 to 6.0, resulting in gigawatts of excess power. Thruster efficiency was varied from 0.9 to 1.0, resulting in hundreds of megawatts of excess power. Resulting system masses were on the order of 10's to 100's of metric tons with thrust-to-weight ratios ranging from 2.1 to 44.1, depending on capacitor specific energy. Such a high thrust/high Isp system with a high power generation capability would allow military versatility in sub-orbital space, as early as 2025, and beyond as early as 2050. This paper presents only the views and recommendations of the authors themselves and are not necessarily those of the Air Force. Descriptors : *AEROSPACEPLANES, MILITARY OPERATIONS, SYMPOSIA, AUSTRALIA, CAPACITORS, SUBORBITAL TRAJECTORIES, HYBRID PROPULSION, AIR BREATHING ENGINES(UNCONVENTIONAL), MAGNETOHYDRODYNAMICS, THRUSTERS, PLASMAS(PHYSICS), ELECTRIC POWER PRODUCTION Subject Categories : RESEARCH AND EXPIRIMENTAL AIRCRAFT PLASMA PHYSICS AND MAGNETOHYDRODYNAMICS Distribution Statement : APPROVED FOR PUBLIC RELEASE From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 12 01:11:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6C8Au6S006761; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 01:10:56 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6C8ArF6006736; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 01:10:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 01:10:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=AB1odgTSZrfjJm9FPkWYuUu7k8Jeg/u+Px4r5DWwq6R/H77j+skTxq72jqTKKyK2; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006731281046910 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 02:10:47 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940fdbc46c87118f7db99c3d6f2ec07421d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.206 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69610 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Biohydrogen and Biogasoline from Algae Soap Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Comes out the exhaust real clean. http://www.pages.drexel.edu/~ajl23/SuperCritical03.pdf The production of hydrogen by the catalytic steam reforming of sunflower oil [38] has been studied. The study was performed in a fixed bed reactor with a commercial nickel based catalyst for steam reforming naphtha. Sunflower oil was completely converted to hydrogen, methane and carbon oxides, except for the runs performed at the lowest temperatures and an S/C ratio of 3. The hydrogen yield ranged from 72% to 87% of the stoichiometric potential, depending on the steam-to-carbon ratio and the catalyst temperature, which governed the equilibrium among the gas species. 2.4.1. Pyrolysis of the vegetable oil soaps In 1947, a large scale thermal cracking of tung oil calcium soap was reported [39]. Tung oil was saponifed with lime and then thermally cracked to yield a crude oil, which was refined to produce Diesel fuel and small amounts of gasoline and kerosene. 68 kg of the tung oil soap produced 50 liters of crude oil. Pyrolyses of the vegetable oil soaps were performed in an apparatus designed for this purpose. The main element of this device was a tubular reactor of height 95.1 mm., ID 17.0mm and OD 19.0mm inserted vertically into an electrically heated tubular furnace. A similar pyrolysis apparatus was illustrated in the earlier study [40]. The saponi.cation and pyrolysis of sodium soap of vegetable oil proceed as follows: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

 
Comes out the exhaust real clean.
 
 

The production of hydrogen by the catalytic steam reforming of sunflower oil [38] has been

studied. The study was performed in a fixed bed reactor with a commercial nickel based catalyst

for steam reforming naphtha. Sunflower oil was completely converted to hydrogen, methane and

carbon oxides, except for the runs performed at the lowest temperatures and an S/C ratio of 3.

The hydrogen yield ranged from 72% to 87% of the stoichiometric potential, depending on the

steam-to-carbon ratio and the catalyst temperature, which governed the equilibrium among the

gas species.

2.4.1. Pyrolysis of the vegetable oil soaps

In 1947, a large scale thermal cracking of tung oil calcium soap was reported [39]. Tung oil was

saponifed with lime and then thermally cracked to yield a crude oil, which was refined to produce

Diesel fuel and small amounts of gasoline and kerosene. 68 kg of the tung oil soap produced 50 liters

of crude oil.

Pyrolyses of the vegetable oil soaps were performed in an apparatus designed for this purpose.

The main element of this device was a tubular reactor of height 95.1 mm., ID 17.0mm and OD

19.0mm inserted vertically into an electrically heated tubular furnace. A similar pyrolysis apparatus

was illustrated in the earlier study [40].

The saponi.cation and pyrolysis of sodium soap of vegetable oil proceed as follows:

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 12 01:22:37 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6C8MROu011711; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 01:22:27 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6C8MP7o011688; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 01:22:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 01:22:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: biological computing Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 18:22:12 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta05ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.67.67] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Wed, 12 Jul 2006 08:22:13 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6C8MJjm011639 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69611 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Mon, 10 Jul 2006 00:40:10 -0500: Hi, [snip] >Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >> "3) Everything is connected - if it is not connected, it isn't >> real" >> >> is ...If it isn't real, then it has no value. >> >> This is a sure fire recipe for destruction of those humans that >> are not wired into the system. And those that are wired in can be >> controlled. > >The system must adapt to the individual. >Harry It was meant as a warning. Suggesting that the system must adapt to the individual is just sticking your head in the sand. It won't make the problem go away. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 12 02:02:03 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6C91jYd025808; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 02:01:49 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6C91hgW025788; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 02:01:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 02:01:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=luqZZg/ZiS9V5qCVH/2rs8XvhGER4m2gy5R9zqYS3fC8NUGEUGdRT/Mt5oXHlJ0r; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200673129050219 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 03:00:50 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940725f8ec9203023cca8cd24a84ac2f162350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.206 Resent-Message-ID: <7c7fX.A.vSG.3pLtEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69612 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Biohydrogen and Biogasoline from Algae Soap Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Any oil in Nestea? http://www.nestejacobs.com/default.asp?path=111,360,489,1259,1260,3674,4891 Neste Oil Corporation Press Release 18 October 2005 "Neste Oil’s Porvoo refinery celebrated 40 years of operation today with the laying of the foundation stone of the site’s new biodiesel plant. The company is investing approx. EUR 100 million in the new facility, which will produce some 170,000 t/a of biodiesel when it comes on line by summer 2007. Based on Neste Oil-developed proprietary technology, the plant will use 100% renewable raw materials, in the form of vegetable oils and animal fats." Finland’s Minister of Trade and Industry, Mauri Pekkarinen, laid the foundation stone. "“The new plant has the potential to enable Finland to meet the traffic biofuel goals set out by the European Union for 2010 three years earlier, in 2007, if the will is there,” continued Kimmo Rahkamo, Executive Vice President of Neste Oil’s Components division. “Ensuring that biofuels can come on to the market will call for measures from government, in the form of tax breaks, for example. A recent study shows that 84% of Finns support the idea of tax breaks for bio-based traffic fuels.”" ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

Any oil in Nestea?
 
 

Neste Oil Corporation
Press Release
 18 October 2005

"Neste Oil’s Porvoo refinery celebrated 40 years of operation today with the laying of the foundation stone of the site’s new biodiesel plant. The company is investing approx. EUR 100 million in the new facility, which will produce some 170,000 t/a of biodiesel when it comes on line by summer 2007. Based on Neste Oil-developed proprietary technology, the plant will use 100% renewable raw materials, in the form of vegetable oils and animal fats."

Finland’s Minister of Trade and Industry, Mauri Pekkarinen, laid the foundation stone.

"“The new plant has the potential to enable Finland to meet the traffic biofuel goals set out by the European Union for 2010 three years earlier, in 2007, if the will is there,” continued Kimmo Rahkamo, Executive Vice President of Neste Oil’s Components division. “Ensuring that biofuels can come on to the market will call for measures from government, in the form of tax breaks, for example. A recent study shows that 84% of Finns support the idea of tax breaks for bio-based traffic fuels.”"

 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 12 04:19:50 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6CBJUWJ020044; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 04:19:30 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6CBJR9S020020; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 04:19:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 04:19:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=F5jcR2PrlXnpEunSFDoKGPKdWlP/3uGNrURyejPJ8kkm0gwps5D5b3xg7Jve67lD; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220067312111912973 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 05:19:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94049b15d9ff92bde67bb8e39f535011b47350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.238 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69613 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Biohydrogen from Algae Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII If Michel Jullian would be kind enough to send me that link to a spreadsheet. :-) 1, C15H31COO)3-C3H5+ 3 H2O -----> 3 C15H31COOH + C3H5(OH)3 2, C15H31COOH + 15 CO2 + Heat-Catalyst -----> 16 CO + 16 H2 3, 16 CO + 16 H2O (ammonia water low temp) ------> 16 CO2 + 16 H2 4, C3H5(OH)3 + Heat-Catalyst -----> 3 CO + 3 H2 5, 3 CO + 3 H2O (ammonia water low temp) -----> 3 CO2 + 3 H2 Conservatively, about 30 pounds of algae oil can be reacted with CO2 and/or H2O to produce 6.4 pounds of Hydrogen on demand, to run a Fuel Cell using the heat from some of the remaining 45 pounds of algae residue OTOH. electrolysis of water to produce 6.4 pounds of hydrogen requires 160 kWh at $.08/kwh = $12.80 making the 75 pounds (dry weight) of algae worth $17.00/cwt. ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

If Michel Jullian would be kind enough to send me that link
to a spreadsheet.  :-)
 
1, C15H31COO)3-C3H5+ 3 H2O -----> 3 C15H31COOH + C3H5(OH)3
 
2, C15H31COOH + 15 CO2 + Heat-Catalyst -----> 16 CO + 16 H2
 
3, 16 CO + 16 H2O (ammonia water low temp) ------> 16 CO2 + 16 H2
 
4, C3H5(OH)3 + Heat-Catalyst -----> 3 CO + 3 H2
 
5, 3 CO + 3 H2O (ammonia water low temp) ----->  3 CO2 + 3 H2
 
Conservatively, about 30 pounds of algae oil can be reacted with CO2
and/or H2O to produce 6.4 pounds of Hydrogen on demand,
to run a Fuel Cell using the heat from some of the remaining
45 pounds of algae residue
OTOH. electrolysis of water to produce 6.4 pounds of hydrogen
requires 160 kWh at $.08/kwh = $12.80 making the 75 pounds
(dry weight) of algae worth $17.00/cwt.
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 12 05:29:53 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6CCTmZR017391; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 05:29:48 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6CCTg2p017356; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 05:29:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 05:29:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=QAWF/RU1BQQrFV9vqT1eC135NOoIjTRpXZQdNaWaATwifyoBGtWsdJnHIlWfoq0y; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220067312122927735 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 06:29:27 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940a6577e92e73e8ff9960cea25338c7ff2350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.180 Resent-Message-ID: <38OacD.A._OE.2sOtEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69614 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Biohydrogen from Algae Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII NREL is using the algae to produce the Hydrogen. http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy04osti/35593.pdf Updated Cost Analysis of Photobiological Hydrogen Production from Chlamydomonas reinhardtii Green Algae "In 1999 NREL completed a preliminary cost analysis of photobiological hydrogen production from Chlamydomonas reinhardtii (Amos, 1999). At the time, NREL researchers, in cooperation with researchers at the University of California-Berkeley, were able to produce hydrogen using a wild-type algae in a laboratory batch reactor system. Cells were first cultured, then switched to a sulfur-deficient environment to produce hydrogen. The researchers have now managed to produce hydrogen continuously using a series of two flow reactors. This is a critical process advancement. This study takes a more detailed look at the effects that cell density, light adsorption and light saturation have on algal hydrogen production. The previous study had looked mainly at incident light intensities, batch cycles and light adsorption without directly attempting to model the saturation effects seen in algal cultures." ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

NREL is using the algae to produce the Hydrogen.
 
 
Updated Cost Analysis of Photobiological Hydrogen Production from

Chlamydomonas reinhardtii Green Algae

 
"In 1999 NREL completed a preliminary cost analysis of photobiological hydrogen production

from Chlamydomonas reinhardtii (Amos, 1999). At the time, NREL researchers, in cooperation

with researchers at the University of California-Berkeley, were able to produce hydrogen using a

wild-type algae in a laboratory batch reactor system. Cells were first cultured, then switched to a

sulfur-deficient environment to produce hydrogen. The researchers have now managed to

produce hydrogen continuously using a series of two flow reactors. This is a critical process

advancement. This study takes a more detailed look at the effects that cell density, light

adsorption and light saturation have on algal hydrogen production. The previous study had

looked mainly at incident light intensities, batch cycles and light adsorption without directly

attempting to model the saturation effects seen in algal cultures."

 
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 12 08:56:43 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6CFuKC6013799; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 08:56:21 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6CFuGCk013748; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 08:56:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 08:56:15 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <007301c6a5cb$b0f13620$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 08:56:08 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69615 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Nanobubbles and Free-energy Status: RO X-Status: Everyone on vortex is familiar with the Casimir force and with the fourth-power increase in pressure as dimensions decrease at the nanoscale. Most are also familiar with the fact that the best efforts to harness this aether-ZPE-force for "free energy" have thus far amounted to little. Then there is the energy phenomena known as the JoeCell. Even on this forum, many will not consider it seriously. Sometimes the device works and sometime it doesn't. It is mired in controversy because of the hocus-pocus references to Reich's orgone and other strange ideas - plus - the cadre of non-scientists (most auto mechanics) who have dabbled with it and pretend to understand it - cannot produce results on-demand. BUT the reports won't go away - which makes it somewhat like the red-headed step-child of cold fusion, in the sense that practitioners *know* it is real, yet they cannot prove it to skeptics reliably. There is something happening with this device, in the way of a large energy anomaly, but it is even less predictable than LENR. When it does work - however, it is much more robust than anything seen before - and there are well-documented cases of 100 km automobile trips on nothing more than electrically-treated water. This represents at least 50 kWh of excess energy - far more than in any kind of LENR or hydrino experiment - far more even than the $25 billion spent on hot fusion. Now try to transfer the information you know about the Casimir force to the JoeCell, and consider the possibility that (aside from anything else) **nanobubbles** are the major "fuel" being created. That and a small amount of hydrogen. What did I say? bubbles as fuel ?? how crazy is that??? In an ICE - the engine uses 4 cycles of alternating partial vacuum and the pressurization - and significant energy would be expended to pressurize microbubbles or nanobubbles, effectively shrinking them ... BUT is the overall system then able to recover more energy, during expansion, then was applied initially --- that would be courtesy of aether and the Casimir force? IOW can the bulk of the "fuel".perhaps, be nothing more complicated than very tiny bubbles under intense compression ! After all Boyle's law is linear but the Casimir is a fourth-power pressurization- so there an arguable theoretical basis for all of this. For instance, in the situation where you have a treatment device which is *unknowingly* but fortuitously designed to slowly create very tiny bubbles (which cannot be seen), perhaps it requires almost nothing else but a bit of H2, in order to ultimately power the engine. Perhaps it makes only the minimum amount of hydrogen necessary to explode, but not nearly enough hydrogen (by a factor of 10) to actually self-sustain an engine without the bubbles. As mentioned in a previous posting, James Tyrrell and Phil Attard of the University of South Australia in this report have documented nanobubbles: http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v87/i17/e176104 "Images of Nanobubbles on Hydrophobic Surfaces and Their Interactions" They have discovered close packed and irregular nanobubbles, forming near certain surfaces in water - which bubbles have a radius of curvature of the order of 100 nm. Such nanobubbles are smaller than the wavelength of visible light, but in the UV range where hydrinos may be activated or formed. These bubbles, in practice, could be forced into a more compact state in the operation of an ICE, due to the normal compression ratio, which is about 10-1 and the additional compression of a small explosion. BUT we do not even need to resort to the hydrino explanation at all - as Casimir forces are evident here. Even if the bubbles being formed were not nano-sized at first, but as large as 1 micron in diameter initially, which is small by our standards but large by molecular standards, they are then compressed in an engine at a 10-1 ratio and into a much more compact size, but is that enough ? Since these bubbles are "stronger" due to more surface area per volume contained, few will collapse at this stage. Let's say that a small amount of hydrogen being ignited will then give an internal compression of 100 atm to the bubbles, which is still less than what is seen in an ICE burning gasoline. Now we are getting down to a nanocavity operating in the Casimir range with a great deal of photon input. It could be that at the ultimate pressure and small size, many of the bubbles still do not collapse but instead they reduce in volume to where the Casimir becomes active, and on "feeling" that added pressure, they reduce in volume even more - and then finally collapse at an effective pressure that is due mostly to the Casimir force. When they finally do expand, it is much more violently then if only Boyle's law was operating on the internal pressure of 100 atm. Perhaps the internal pressure is raised effectively by a power law, although it would be unlikely to be the full 4th power of the Casimir. Anyway the idea is that this added internal pressure of bubbles is the ultimate power source, and not the hydrogen gas which was created by electrolysis. The hydrogen is just a "trigger" used to shrink the bubbles. Other synergetic factors could be involved in the overall situation: 1) the surface bubble effect is by definition a cavity - and if uniform bubbles are formed near an electrode, then the stage is set for a "natural" Gunn-type diode, based on the geometric size of the bubbles. If this sounds like sonoluminescence, it should. There is also capacitance (charge storage) 2) the possibility that a "natural" (solar derived), negatively charged, nucleating agent - which may exist in some types of water. Can be a metal ion. 3) the possibility that this agent is the Mills hydrino, but solar-derived - 4) the possibility that all of these things [in one complicated] package can explain the ever-increasing anecdotal reports of automotive ICEs running (a least partly) on electrolyzed water: i.e. waterfuel. One more partial explanation to ponder. However - the knowledge that nanobubble could be the active modality should give any researcher an advantage, as now we start the search for Tyrrell and Attard's preferred materials for nanobubbles. Jones From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 12 10:26:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6CHQjr5004061; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:26:45 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6CHQhag004042; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:26:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:26:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 13:26:35 -0400 Message-Id: <8C873EF75D4A272-1A64-FA74 mblkn-m11.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <007301c6a5cb$b0f13620$6401a8c0 NuDell> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <007301c6a5cb$b0f13620$6401a8c0 NuDell> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Subject: Re: [Vo]: Nanobubbles and Free-energy Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.129 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6CHQf9l004015 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69616 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene One more partial explanation to ponder. However - the knowledge that nanobubble could be the active modality should give any researcher an advantage, as now we start the search for Tyrrell and Attard's preferred materials for nanobubbles.  <><><><><><><> "Recently, Tyrell and Attard10 imaged, with an atomic force microscope, a hydrophobic glass surface submerged in water." http://www.engineering.ucsb.edu/~microflu/publications/Meinhart-69.pdf http://tinyurl.com/qjf4p From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 12 10:30:09 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6CHTsNi005659; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:29:55 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6CHTqSg005623; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:29:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:29:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 13:29:46 -0400 Message-Id: <8C873EFE7B15122-1A64-FAA7 mblkn-m11.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <007301c6a5cb$b0f13620$6401a8c0 NuDell> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <007301c6a5cb$b0f13620$6401a8c0 NuDell> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Subject: Re: [Vo]: Nanobubbles and Free-energy Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.129 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6CHToRP005597 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69617 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene One more partial explanation to ponder. However - the knowledge that nanobubble could be the active modality should give any researcher an advantage, as now we start the search for Tyrrell and Attard's preferred materials for nanobubbles.    <><><><><><> Piccy: http://pubs.acs.org/cen/topstory/7944/print/7944notw3.html From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 12 10:35:21 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6CHZ9WC010078; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:35:09 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6CHZ8q8010062; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:35:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:35:08 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 13:35:01 -0400 Message-Id: <8C873F0A31E711A-1A64-FACA mblkn-m11.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <007301c6a5cb$b0f13620$6401a8c0 NuDell> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <007301c6a5cb$b0f13620$6401a8c0 NuDell> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Subject: Re: [Vo]: Nanobubbles and Free-energy Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.129 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6CHZ5pa010022 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69618 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene As mentioned in a previous posting, James Tyrrell and Phil Attard of the University of South Australia in this report have documented nanobubbles:  http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v87/i17/e176104  <><><><><><> Here's the entire paper for free: http://www.unisanet.unisa.edu.au/staff/PhilAttard/a72/nano.pdf From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 12 10:54:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6CHsBg9025183; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:54:12 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6CHs9j3025155; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:54:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:54:08 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00a601c6a5dc$29cb3810$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <007301c6a5cb$b0f13620$6401a8c0 NuDell> <8C873EF75D4A272-1A64-FA74@mblkn-m11.sysops.aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:54:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69619 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Nanobubbles and Free-energy Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: >> One more partial explanation to ponder. However - the knowledge >> that nanobubble could be the active modality should give any >> researcher an advantage, as now we start the search for >> Tyrrell and Attard's preferred materials for nanobubbles. > <><><><><><><> > "Recently, Tyrell and Attard imaged, with an atomic force > microscope, a hydrophobic glass surface submerged in water." Thanks to Terry for these refs: http://pubs.acs.org/cen/topstory/7944/print/7944notw3.html http://www.unisanet.unisa.edu.au/staff/PhilAttard/a72/nano.pdf http://tinyurl.com/qjf4p Hmm... and then there is a reliable report that the stainless electrodes of the JC must be "conditioned" with a build-up of crud...before the overnight charging... ...wonder if it is "hydrophobic" crud ?? .... or to cut to the chase, why not just start out with fritted stainless... Jones Ah, yes... almost a Eureka moment ... (hopefully) ... kinda makes me want to break into a watersong (with apologies to Van-the-Man) Queen Of The Slipstream You're the Queen of the slipstream With eyes that shine You have crossed many waters to be here You have drank of the fountain of innocence And experienced the long cold wintry years. There's a dream where the contents are visible Where the poetic champions compose Will you breathe not a word of this secrecy, and Will you still be my special rose? Goin' away far across the sea You're the Queen of the slipstream You have crossed many waters to be here And you drink at the fountains of innocence And experienced, you know very well From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 12 10:56:35 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6CHuIf0026978; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:56:19 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6CHuEY9026902; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:56:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:56:14 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060712135325.03f80298 mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 13:56:14 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69620 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: "Scientific Method worthwhile in 'fringe' energy too" Status: O X-Status: See: http://pesn.com/2006/07/11/9500290_Scientific_Method/ A discussion covering CF and the "Joe Cell." The author makes several points that I have previously emphasized, such as the point that the "extraordinary claim" claim is rubbish. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 12 11:43:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6CIhLCS028003; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 11:43:22 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6CIhI86027978; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 11:43:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 11:43:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060712144059.03f70258 mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 14:43:12 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_17746578==.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: <0d1QCB.A.20G.ELUtEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69621 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Three theory papers Status: O X-Status: --=====================_17746578==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I have recently uploaded three theory papers: Kim, Y.E., Surface reaction mechanism for deuterium-deuterium fusion with a gas/solid-state fusion device. Fusion Technol., 1991. 19: p. 558. http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/KimYEsurfacereab.pdf Chubb, T.A., Three Types of dd Fusion. Trans. Amer. Nucl. Soc., 2005. 93: p. 895. http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/ChubbTAthreetypes.pdf Fisher, J.C. Polyneutron Theory of Transmutation. in The 12th International Conference on Condensed Matter Nuclear Science. 2005. Yokohama, Japan. http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/FisherJCpolyneutroa.pdf I cannot judge theory, but the authors tell me these are among their important works. - Jed --=====================_17746578==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" I have recently uploaded three theory papers:

Kim, Y.E., Surface reaction mechanism for deuterium-deuterium fusion with a gas/solid-state fusion device. Fusion Technol., 1991. 19: p. 558.

http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/KimYEsurfacereab.pdf

Chubb, T.A., Three Types of dd Fusion. Trans. Amer. Nucl. Soc., 2005. 93: p. 895.

http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/ChubbTAthreetypes.pdf

Fisher, J.C. Polyneutron Theory of Transmutation. in The 12th International Conference on Condensed Matter Nuclear Science. 2005. Yokohama, Japan.

http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/FisherJCpolyneutroa.pdf

I cannot judge theory, but the authors tell me these are among their important works.

- Jed
--=====================_17746578==.ALT-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 12 14:39:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6CLdX9K026663; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 14:39:33 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6CLdWpC026645; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 14:39:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 14:39:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 17:39:26 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net Message-Id: <8C87412C82CF2F4-1118-3BCE1 mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.138 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69623 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Venus Vortex Status: O X-Status: This has gotta be on topic :-). http://www.geotimes.org/july06/NN_venus.html "Vortex visible on Venus The first images ever taken of Venus? south pole caused a swirl of excitement among astronomers in April. Taken by cameras aboard the European Space Agency?s Venus Express spacecraft, the images revealed that hovering above the southern pole is an enormous vortex structure of clouds, similar to one found at the previously imaged north pole. " More detail: http://www.astrobio.net/news/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=articl e&sid=2006 http://tinyurl.com/onbo7 Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 12 15:01:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6CLX9Ox022915; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 14:33:13 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6CLX6K9022877; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 14:33:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 14:33:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 17:32:56 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net Message-Id: <8C87411E010C8BF-19C-2EB49 mblkn-m14.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.132 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <4Ouw8D.A.vkF.PqWtEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69622 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Wormholes and Orbital Days Inn Status: O X-Status: Robert Bigelow's projects are always "out there". http://www.newscientistspace.com/article/dn9533-model-of-inflatable-space -hotel-set-to-launch.html http://tinyurl.com/gt29y "Model of inflatable space hotel set to launch 20:46 11 July 2006 An inflatable spacecraft designed to test technology for a future space hotel is to be launched from Russia on Wednesday. "Everything is on track and scheduled for launch," Robert Bigelow told New Scientist in a prepared statement. Bigelow is the founder of Bigelow Aerospace in Las Vegas, Nevada, US, which is behind the inflatable test vehicle. " Terry PS Just received my copy of: http://www.huntfortheskinwalker.com/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 12 15:33:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6CMWpph023643; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 15:32:52 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6CMWoAw023624; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 15:32:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 15:32:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-CVTV-Spamfilter: Scanned X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <000701c6a603$15fcf590$cc037841 xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 17:32:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01C6A5D9.2C4F7950" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69624 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Emailing: images Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C6A5D9.2C4F7950 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0004_01C6A5D9.2C4F7950" ------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C6A5D9.2C4F7950 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Howdy Vorts, As you view the Cordin site images search for the vortexes formed in = most of the images. The most pronounced is the supersonic shockwave. The = most surprising to me was the stainless steel wire . Shortcut to: http://www.cordin.com/images.html Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C6A5D9.2C4F7950 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
Howdy Vorts,
 
As you view the Cordin site images = search for the=20 vortexes formed in most of the images. The most pronounced is the = supersonic=20 shockwave. The most surprising to me was the stainless steel wire=20 .
Shortcut to: http://www.cordin.com/images.h= tml
Richard
------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C6A5D9.2C4F7950-- ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C6A5D9.2C4F7950 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="images.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="images.url" [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.cordin.com/images.html Modified=7090A48F02A6C601A2 ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C6A5D9.2C4F7950-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 12 19:51:12 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6D2oxSF021264; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 19:50:59 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6D2oueb021233; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 19:50:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 19:50:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-CVTV-Spamfilter: Scanned X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Virus-Scanned: by McAfee Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <001301c6a627$25a84d40$3f027841 xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 21:50:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C6A5FD.3BE0E060" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69625 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Measuring temperature differential Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C6A5FD.3BE0E060 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C6A5FD.3BE0E060" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C6A5FD.3BE0E060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankHowdy Vorts, Thinking about my last post regarding the vortex generated in the = supersonic shockwave reminded me of an old friend that invented a host = of lab measurement equipment by thinking differential measurement. Seems the people making these imaging devices have most of the tools = needed to image the difference between refererence and fixed temperature = via sonics considering the color spectrum pattern produced. http://www.cordin.com/images.html Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C6A5FD.3BE0E060 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Howdy Vorts,
 
Thinking about my last post regarding the vortex generated in the=20 supersonic shockwave reminded me of an old friend that invented a host = of lab=20 measurement equipment by thinking differential measurement.
 
Seems the people making these imaging devices have most of the = tools needed=20 to image the difference between refererence and fixed temperature via = sonics=20 considering the color spectrum pattern  produced.
http://www.cordin.com/images.h= tml
 
Richard
------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C6A5FD.3BE0E060-- ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C6A5FD.3BE0E060 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000e01c6a627$24a92cc0$3f027841 xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C6A5FD.3BE0E060-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 13 01:02:53 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6D82iFo014412; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 01:02:45 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6D7u3Dr011446; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 00:56:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 00:56:02 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=bgG8uO8ple4YV3XCums5JrD+lZkCOFujobZcuNINry5bHLxk3GpncDKwKYkT3cU4; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006741375555898 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 01:55:55 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940912d903131493a63060786e2b8c5dca5350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.100 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69626 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Nanobubbles and Free-energy Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII A fundamental law, Jones? Energy is inversely proportional to radius? Lots of energy given up when a star collapses into a black hole or a singularity. :-) Fred http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/ceramic-sinter.html "A clue to the puzzle came when Searcy read a footnote in the work of Josiah Willard Gibbs, the nineteenth-century founder of chemical thermodynamics. Gibbs pointed out that molecules at the edges between crystalline facets would leave and return to their crystal sites more often than molecules in the facet surfaces, because the edge molecules are less strongly bonded. Inspired by what he calls Gibbs's "qualitative description of dynamic equilibrium," Searcy worked with Bullard and Carter, both former students at LBNL, to develop equations that explain shape changes during sintering in terms of energy differences among differently oriented surfaces and edges -- "rate equations" founded on Searcy's "statistical thermodynamic description of the unstable internal equilibrium" in crystals of any shape. The new equations are based on two governing principles: first, any change in shape is possible if it reduces total energy -- the change need not minimize energy, merely reduce it. Second, among all possible shape changes, the one that actually occurs is the one in which the exchange of atoms or molecules and vacant crystal lattice sites is easiest -- the one most favored kinetically." ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

A fundamental law, Jones?   Energy is inversely proportional to radius?
 
Lots of energy given up when a star collapses into a black hole or a singularity.  :-)
 
 Fred
 
 
"A clue to the puzzle came when Searcy read a footnote in the work of Josiah Willard Gibbs, the nineteenth-century founder of chemical thermodynamics. Gibbs pointed out that molecules at the edges between crystalline facets would leave and return to their crystal sites more often than molecules in the facet surfaces, because the edge molecules are less strongly bonded.

Inspired by what he calls Gibbs's "qualitative description of dynamic equilibrium," Searcy worked with Bullard and Carter, both former students at LBNL, to develop equations that explain shape changes during sintering in terms of energy differences among differently oriented surfaces and edges -- "rate equations" founded on Searcy's "statistical thermodynamic description of the unstable internal equilibrium" in crystals of any shape.

The new equations are based on two governing principles: first, any change in shape is possible if it reduces total energy -- the change need not minimize energy, merely reduce it. Second, among all possible shape changes, the one that actually occurs is the one in which the exchange of atoms or molecules and vacant crystal lattice sites is easiest -- the one most favored kinetically."

 
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 13 02:01:56 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6D91bOk015109; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 02:01:37 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6D91Yp3015081; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 02:01:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 02:01:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=kiSb2r1C3FCsarCHrPrXxbh+OPx0DGBusGQuXjPdLs2zUSo3vTLKobDevXeKoqMP; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200674139119681 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 03:01:19 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940a6b8141965504d2d7d82b23aedb0baa9350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.148 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69627 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Nanobubbles and Free-energy Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > A fundamental law, Jones? Energy is inversely proportional to radius? > > Lots of energy given up when a star collapses into a black hole or a singularity. :-) > Note that the surface area decreases as the radius decreases. Where did that energy go? This slow loading 68 page pdf is a good primer on the thermodynamics of surfaces etc., well worth saving. http://www2.ijs.si/~kkocevar/skripta.pdf ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
>
> A fundamental law, Jones?   Energy is inversely proportional to radius?
>
> Lots of energy given up when a star collapses into a black hole or a singularity.  :-)
>
Note that the surface area decreases as the radius decreases.
 
Where did that energy go?
 
 
This slow loading 68 page pdf is a good primer on the thermodynamics of surfaces etc.,
well worth saving.
 
 
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 13 07:36:37 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6DEa3uY013702; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 07:36:04 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6DEZvtj013615; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 07:35:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 07:35:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=RdxUA8PBEjy+D3fafTZks1HRqGRQQ05DGcCVXpuNNcFZpENB/ME0N/pQHy7ICheZ; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220067413143543822 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 08:35:43 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9406cb8b6a02ab0720262d7f82fb37e0712350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.193 Resent-Message-ID: <7KqT8C.A.eUD.MpltEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69628 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Nanobubbles and Free-energy Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Jones. After struggling through the math of this for a few hours, all I see is the formation of Nanobubbles on the ~ 250 Moles of ions formed from the 80 KiloJoules/Mole Free-Energy of Constant Auto-Ionization of water into OH - and H3O+ or H+. This freebie adds up to a constant replenishment of 20 MegaJoules or 20,000 BTU worth of Nanobubbles in the garden variety Joe Cell. http://www2.ijs.si/~kkocevar/skripta.pdf > > > > A fundamental law, Jones? Energy is inversely proportional to radius? > > > > Lots of energy given up when a star collapses into a black hole or a singularity. :-) > > Note that the surface area decreases as the radius decreases. > > Where did that energy go? >From whence the Auto-Ionization Free Energy? Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

Jones.
 
After struggling through the math of this for a few hours, all I see is
the formation of Nanobubbles on the ~ 250 Moles of
ions formed from the 80 KiloJoules/Mole Free-Energy
of Constant Auto-Ionization of water into OH - and H3O+ or H+.
This freebie adds up to a constant replenishment of 20 MegaJoules
or 20,000 BTU worth of Nanobubbles in the garden variety Joe Cell.
 
 
 
> >
> > A fundamental law, Jones?   Energy is inversely proportional to radius?
> >
> > Lots of energy given up when a star collapses into a black hole or a singularity.  :-)
>
> Note that the surface area decreases as the radius decreases.
>
> Where did that energy go?
 
From whence the Auto-Ionization Free Energy?
 
Fred
 
 
 
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 13 08:06:41 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6DF6I1V032364; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 08:06:18 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6DF6CBX032308; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 08:06:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 08:06:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <003601c6a68d$d9c7d730$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex-l" References: <410-220067413143543822 earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 08:05:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69629 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Nanobubbles and Free-energy Status: O X-Status: Fred I have had a look at that paper and it is both interesting but requires more study, and even then does not consider another source of potential energy - which is the "excitonic" stimulation of a bubble prior to its eventual vaporization duing combustion. The stability and long lifetime of these bubbles must be related to exictonic charge retention somehow. > FS: After struggling through the math of this for a few hours, > all I see is the formation of Nanobubbles on the ~ 250 Moles of > ions formed from the 80 KiloJoules/Mole Free-Energy of Constant > Auto-Ionization of water into OH - and H3O+ or H+. This freebie > adds up to a constant replenishment of 20 MegaJoules or 20,000 > BTU worth of Nanobubbles in the garden variety Joe Cell. Not sure that I am following this, but hopefully you are implying that the bubbles are involved somehow in the storing or stabilization of that charge? That could explain many things. What about the hydronium ion being the "nucleating agent" for a nanobubble? What would be the geometry of this? That ion must be rather large, and it could be that the nanobubble itself is a sheath for this or some other nucleating agent. It would be nice to tailor that structure into Chaplin's 280 water molecule icosahedron - but that would not seem to provide the energy density levels which are apparently seen. Jones From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 13 08:39:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6DFdeN0019259; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 08:39:40 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6DFdc3X019228; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 08:39:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 08:39:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 11:39:33 -0400 Message-Id: <8C874A9AC50A169-554-1149 mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060711094621.03efd640 mindspring.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060711094621.03efd640 mindspring.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.133 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6DFdZs5019192 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69630 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: COFE II Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jed Rothwell Re: COFE II "Ted Loder, Professor Emeritus of the University of New Hampshire, has been working diligently on the Spiral Magnetic Motor, which is the magnetostatic-type that is designed to capitalize on the "magnetic gradient." Ted and I are also proposing to present a joint paper on the subject at INTERMAG in Baltimore, January, 2006 www.magnetism.org on this emerging energy technology." <><><><><><> Hmmm, sounds familiar. I wrote Dr. Loder to ask about this and got no response. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 13 08:40:55 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6DFeVqf019940; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 08:40:31 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6DFeUx3019919; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 08:40:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 08:40:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <005001c6a692$a9faa690$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <410-22006741375555898 earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 08:40:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69631 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Re: Nanobubbles and Free-energy Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber A fundamental law? Energy is inversely proportional to radius? Certainly true regarding photon wavelength - plus - Prof. Casimir sez: as you go smaller and smaller in dimensions, then the increase turns from cubic to fourth-power, therfore ... one might suppose - that this threshold of about 100 nm is (hypothetically) the real advantage of a nanobuble over a microbubble ? Jones The sequence of fourth powers of integers goes: 1, 16, 81, 256, 625, 1296, 2401, 4096, 6561, 10000, So if a nanobubble radius (very stable bubble) were forced to shrink, during the compression and combustion cycles of an ICE (aided by the Casimir force below 10 nm) from 100 nm down to 1 nm, would its potential enegy increase by a factor of 10,000 ... while requiring a relative energy input of 1000 ? IOW a 10-1 gain thanks to Casimir ?? The last two digits of a fourth power can be easily shown (for instance, by computing the squares of possible last two digits of square numbers) to be restricted to only twelve possibilities: 00, 01, 16, 21, 25, 36, 41, 56, 61, 76, 81 and 96. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 13 08:51:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6DFonvW026997; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 08:50:49 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6DFommT026978; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 08:50:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 08:50:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 11:50:41 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net Message-Id: <8C874AB3A44E3AD-554-11DB mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.133 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69632 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Stoking the Furnace Status: O X-Status: Maybe it's not us: http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2003/0313irradiance.htm l http://tinyurl.com/qwwo7 "NASA STUDY FINDS INCREASING SOLAR TREND THAT CAN CHANGE CLIMATE Since the late 1970s, the amount of solar radiation the sun emits, during times of quiet sunspot activity, has increased by nearly .05 percent per decade, according to a NASA funded study." From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 13 08:54:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6DFsFjc029438; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 08:54:16 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6DFsDar029405; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 08:54:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 08:54:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 11:54:06 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net Message-Id: <8C874ABB4A9DBE9-554-1208 mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.133 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69633 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Tesla BEV Launch in a Week Status: RO X-Status: http://www.teslamotors.com/index.html 0-60 in 4s 250 mi per charge $0.01 per mile From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 13 09:47:18 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6DGl13a030667; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 09:47:01 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6DGkxNT030643; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 09:46:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 09:46:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 12:46:51 -0400 Message-Id: <8C874B3137079FE-1118-3E138 mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <410-22006741375555898 earthlink.net> <005001c6a692$a9faa690$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <005001c6a692$a9faa690$6401a8c0 NuDell> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.138 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6DGkv2F030612 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69634 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Nanobubbles and Free-energy Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene So if a nanobubble radius (very stable bubble) were forced to shrink, during the compression and combustion cycles of an ICE (aided by the Casimir force below 10 nm) from 100 nm down to 1 nm, would its potential enegy increase by a factor of 10,000 ... while requiring a relative energy input of 1000 ? IOW a 10-1 gain thanks to Casimir ??  <><><><><> Not trying to (ahem) burst your bubble; but, I thought Casimir only applied to uncharged conductors. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 13 09:52:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6DGqbSR001540; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 09:52:37 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6DGqa7C001512; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 09:52:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 09:52:36 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Gq4HfQqGMI/kCVBmDXINr668YhAJXbB10Hfs4/e+8K8q2aFJ8jZHHHzsW8uTOHY6; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006741316501312 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]: Re: Re: Nanobubbles and Free-energy Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 10:50:01 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9406c5e426bb7ae1b1fa162f6bee23d336e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.80 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69635 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones Beene wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Frederick Sparber > > > A fundamental law? Energy is inversely proportional to radius? > > > Certainly true regarding photon wavelength > The Radius of a particle given as kq^2/mc^2 says the same thing whether it's a quark or rabbit "pellet" .:-) This is applied to the Energy Density, Joule/Meter^3 of a particle, but it should also apply to Surface Energy. The classical example is the energy required in breaking up a cubic centimeter of water into NanoSphere Droplets. When you get down to H2O molecular size it's the heat of vaporization. IOW. if Nanobubbles are formed in the Joe Cell in prolific numbers when they get drawn from the cell in droplets) into the cylinder they should be forced to collapse and give off energy the same way cavitation-sonoluminescence bubbles do. > > - plus - Prof. Casimir sez: as you go smaller and smaller in > dimensions, then the increase turns from cubic to fourth-power, > therefore ... one might suppose - that this threshold of about 100 > nm is (hypothetically) the real advantage of a nanobuble over a > microbubble ? > Prof. Casimir is mentioned on page 29 section 3.1 in this article. http://www2.ijs.si/~kkocevar/skripta.pdf I think 6th or 7th power is more like it. Fred > > Jones > > The sequence of fourth powers of integers goes: > 1, 16, 81, 256, 625, 1296, 2401, 4096, 6561, 10000, > > So if a nanobubble radius (very stable bubble) were forced to > shrink, during the compression and combustion cycles of an ICE > (aided by the Casimir force below 10 nm) from 100 nm down to 1 nm, > would its potential enegy increase by a factor of 10,000 ... while > requiring a relative energy input of 1000 ? IOW a 10-1 gain thanks > to Casimir ?? > > > The last two digits of a fourth power can be easily shown (for > instance, by computing the squares of possible last two digits of > square numbers) to be restricted to only twelve possibilities: 00, > 01, 16, 21, 25, 36, 41, 56, 61, 76, 81 and 96. > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 13 10:01:41 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6DH1Ks8007141; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 10:01:21 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6DH1Iak007113; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 10:01:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 10:01:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <008201c6a69d$f3cde0b0$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <410-22006741375555898 earthlink.net> <005001c6a692$a9faa690$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C874B3137079FE-1118-3E138@mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 10:01:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69636 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Nanobubbles and Free-energy Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: > Not trying to (ahem) burst your bubble; but, I thought Casimir > only applied to uncharged conductors. All punnery aside... like all seekers-of-truth, I opt for every weak bubble to be burst, the sooner the better. Do you have a reference for that? J. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 13 10:28:20 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6DHS7LP025607; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 10:28:08 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6DHS6Nx025592; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 10:28:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 10:28:06 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 13:28:01 -0400 Message-Id: <8C874B8D3AA2056-1118-3E363 mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <410-22006741375555898 earthlink.net> <005001c6a692$a9faa690$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C874B3137079FE-1118-3E138@mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> <008201c6a69d$f3cde0b0$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <008201c6a69d$f3cde0b0$6401a8c0 NuDell> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.138 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6DHS4WR025568 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69637 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Nanobubbles and Free-energy Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene     All punnery aside... like all seekers-of-truth, I opt for every weak bubble to be burst, the sooner the better. Do you have a reference for that?  <><><><><> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect "Overview The Casimir effect can be understood by the idea that the presence of conducting metals and dielectrics alter the vacuum expectation value of the energy of the electromagnetic field. Since the value of this energy depends on the shapes and positions of the conductors and dielectrics, the Casimir effect manifests itself as a force between such objects." But, there seems to be more to it than this. It seems Casimir is involved in all particle exchanges. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 13 10:58:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6DHvxF5012098; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 10:57:59 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6DHvqF2012013; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 10:57:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 10:57:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <200607131757.k6DHvp2v092505 mail2.mx.voyager.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 12:57:50 -0500 From: "OrionWorks" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: svj orionworks.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Tesla BEV Launch in a Week Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_97c5850d02c7637508c10c2ad3c5a7e0" X-Mailer: CoreComm Webmail X-IPAddress: 130.47.34.2 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69638 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --=_97c5850d02c7637508c10c2ad3c5a7e0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > From: hohlrauml6d: > http://www.teslamotors.com/index.html > > 0-60 in 4s > 250 mi per charge > $0.01 per mile Interesting development. I'll book-mark the site. The company page states: ----------------------------------------------------- * 2-seater roadster configuration * Soft-top standard, optional hard top * Tesla-designed 3-phase, 4-pole AC induction motor, rated at 248hp, max torque at 0 rpm; redline at 13,500 rpm * Costs about a penny per mile to drive, assuming a time-of-use meter and off-peak charging (about 2 pennies per mile otherwise) * Zero emissions ----------------------------------------------------- I gather this prototype should not be considered a typical American family car. It's a "2-seater." I would speculate that if Tesla Motors were to scale up and make a version big (and heavy) enough to handle four to five individuals, let's say the size of an Escort Station Wagon, those impressive ratings would drop to around 70 miles mpg equivalent, 120 miles per charge. It still sounds impressive to me. Would anyone like to dispute my admittedly off-the-cuff calculations? I'd love to be proven wrong. ;-) Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.Zazle.com/orionworks --=_97c5850d02c7637508c10c2ad3c5a7e0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > From: hohlrauml6d:
> http://www.teslamotors.com/index.html
>
> 0-60 in 4s
> 250 mi per charge
> $0.01 per mile

Interesting development. I'll book-mark the site.

The company page states:

-----------------------------------------------------
* 2-seater roadster configuration

* Soft-top standard, optional hard top

* Tesla-designed 3-phase, 4-pole AC induction motor,
rated at 248hp, max torque at 0 rpm; redline at 13,500 rpm

* Costs about a penny per mile to drive, assuming a time-of-use
meter and off-peak charging (about 2 pennies per mile otherwise)

* Zero emissions
-----------------------------------------------------

I gather this prototype should not be considered a typical American family = car. It's a "2-seater."

I would speculate that if Tesla Motors were to scale up and make a version = big (and heavy) enough to handle four to five individuals, let's say the si= ze of an Escort Station Wagon, those impressive ratings would drop to aroun= d 70 miles mpg equivalent, 120 miles per charge.

It still sounds impressive to me.

Would anyone like to dispute my admittedly off-the-cuff calculations? I'd l= ove to be proven wrong. ;-)

Regards,
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.Zazle.com/orionworks

--=_97c5850d02c7637508c10c2ad3c5a7e0-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 13 11:04:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6DI4RHN015609; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 11:04:27 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6DI4PPG015588; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 11:04:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 11:04:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <419083849.1152810576949.JavaMail.root fepweb11> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 10:09:36 -0700 From: OrionWorks To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Tesla BEV Launch in a Week MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Sensitivity: Normal Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69639 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >From: hohlrauml6d: > http://www.teslamotors.com/index.html > > 0-60 in 4s > 250 mi per charge > $0.01 per mile Interesting development. I'm book-marking the site. The company page states: ----------------------------------------------------- * 2-seater roadster configuration * Soft-top standard, optional hard top * Tesla-designed 3-phase, 4-pole AC induction motor, rated at 248hp, max torque at 0 rpm; redline at 13,500 rpm * Costs about a penny per mile to drive, assuming a time-of-use meter and off-peak charging (about 2 pennies per mile otherwise) * Zero emissions ----------------------------------------------------- I gather this prototype should not be considered a typical American family car. It's a "2-seater." I would speculate that if Tesla Motors would scale up and make a version big (and heavy) enough to handle four to five individuals, let's say the size of an Escort Station Wagon, those impressive ratings would drop to around 70 miles mpg equivalent, 120 miles per charge. Even so, it's still impressive. Would anyone like to dispute my admittedly off-the-cuff calculations? I'd love to be proven wrong. ;-) Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.Zazle.com/orionworks From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 13 11:34:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6DIYZFs030995; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 11:34:36 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6DIYX42030975; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 11:34:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 11:34:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00a301c6a6aa$fac78a30$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <410-22006741375555898 earthlink.net> <005001c6a692$a9faa690$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C874B3137079FE-1118-3E138@mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> <008201c6a69d$f3cde0b0$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C874B8D3AA2056-1118-3E363@mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 11:34:29 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69640 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Nanobubbles and Free-energy Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: > All punnery aside... like all seekers-of-truth, I opt for every > weak bubble to be burst, the sooner the better. Do you have a > reference for that? > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect > "Overview > The Casimir effect can be understood by the idea that the > presence of conducting metals and dielectrics alter the vacuum > expectation value of the energy of the electromagnetic field. > Since the value of this energy depends on the shapes and > positions of the conductors and dielectrics, the Casimir effect > manifests itself as a force between such objects." > But, there seems to be more to it than this. It seems Casimir > is involved in all particle exchanges. I wish I had time now to further investigate the specific details as they might relate to water nanobubbles - before posting this. Maybe later today. But on first glance, the quoted material above might arguably favor a water-based nanobubble over any other Casimir "target" for a number of reasons. Not the least of which reasons is that if the nanobubble is (hypothetically) basically a charge-containment vehicle, composed of a strong dielectric exostructure (water) but with an enclosed charged species (hydronium) then if correct, this structure probably becomes an "exciton" which is not "just" conductive but possibly superconductive, at least temporarily in the same sense that a ferromagnetic domain has been said to have its own superconductive shared electrons. IOW if we just had this Wiki entry to go on - the jury is still out on whether the Casimir is active for nanobubbles or not, but with the enticing (slight) possibility that it could end up being especially-active - should there be a hint of excitonic-type superconductivity. Would you not agree? Jones From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 13 11:58:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6DIwNVG009641; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 11:58:23 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6DIwKWG009618; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 11:58:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 11:58:20 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=SGvG5gqCKRo22DgW/C1CA1NfGeXDQmhLHF8F3YPV1T8ROWDUNqe5kG0EBu9L3iGY; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200674131858895 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]: Re: Nanobubbles and Free-energy Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 12:58:08 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9400f4df22efe3f3a1a5df07feb3bfc64fc350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.166 Resent-Message-ID: <65YLsD.A.NWC.MfptEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69641 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Reread Wiki on Casimir then pages 26-29 of : http://www2.ijs.si/~kkocevar/skripta.pdf which shows 6th and 7th power interaction forces take from his work. Jones Beene writes. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > > > All punnery aside... like all seekers-of-truth, I opt for every > > weak bubble to be burst, the sooner the better. Do you have a > > reference for that? > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect > > > "Overview > > The Casimir effect can be understood by the idea that the > > presence of conducting metals and dielectrics alter the vacuum > > expectation value of the energy of the electromagnetic field. > > Since the value of this energy depends on the shapes and > > positions of the conductors and dielectrics, the Casimir effect > > manifests itself as a force between such objects." > > > But, there seems to be more to it than this. It seems Casimir > > is involved in all particle exchanges. > > > I wish I had time now to further investigate the specific details > as they might relate to water nanobubbles - before posting this. > Maybe later today. But on first glance, the quoted material above > might arguably favor a water-based nanobubble over any other > Casimir "target" for a number of reasons. Not the least of which > reasons is that if the nanobubble is (hypothetically) basically a > charge-containment vehicle, composed of a strong dielectric > exostructure (water) but with an enclosed charged species > (hydronium) then if correct, this structure probably becomes an > "exciton" which is not "just" conductive but possibly > superconductive, at least temporarily in the same sense that a > ferromagnetic domain has been said to have its own superconductive > shared electrons. > > IOW if we just had this Wiki entry to go on - the jury is still > out on whether the Casimir is active for nanobubbles or not, but > with the enticing (slight) possibility that it could end up being > especially-active - should there be a hint of excitonic-type > superconductivity. > > Would you not agree? > > Jones > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 13 12:00:20 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6DJ09wn010580; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 12:00:10 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6DJ08gL010558; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 12:00:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 12:00:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 15:00:02 -0400 Message-Id: <8C874C5AE6404D2-2340-12B08 mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <410-22006741375555898 earthlink.net> <005001c6a692$a9faa690$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C874B3137079FE-1118-3E138@mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> <008201c6a69d$f3cde0b0$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C874B8D3AA2056-1118-3E363@mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> <00a301c6a6aa$fac78a30$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <00a301c6a6aa$fac78a30$6401a8c0 NuDell> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.136 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6DJ05On010521 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69642 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Nanobubbles and Free-energy Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene IOW if we just had this Wiki entry to go on - the jury is still out on whether the Casimir is active for nanobubbles or not, but with the enticing (slight) possibility that it could end up being especially-active - should there be a hint of excitonic-type superconductivity.    Would you not agree?  <><><><><> Indeed! I would never discourage a line of thought that might lead to energy freedom. One thing I am trying to grasp is what does the boundry look like? The nanobubble surface boundry might very well have water molecules polarized inwardly. Did you note that they mixed in KOH to adjust the pH? Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 13 13:40:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6DKeaWl001907; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 13:40:36 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6DKeZxk001891; Thu, 13 Jul 2006 13:40:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 13:40:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <200607132040.k6DKeVDI072659 mail2.mx.voyager.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 15:40:30 -0500 From: "OrionWorks" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: svj orionworks.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_f215119a31b6a214bcce304023344a25" X-Mailer: CoreComm Webmail X-IPAddress: 130.47.34.2 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69643 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: For hybrid hacker lovers Status: O X-Status: --=_f215119a31b6a214bcce304023344a25 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A link to warm the sockets of all hybrid hacker lovers. A plug-in kit. See: http://money.cnn.com/magazines/business2/business2_archive/2006/07/01/8380233/index.htm?cnn=yes http://tinyurl.com/qmw72 Enjoy! Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.Zazzle.com/orionworks --=_f215119a31b6a214bcce304023344a25 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A link to warm the sockets of all hybrid hacker lovers.

A plug-in kit.

See:

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/business2/business2_archive/2006/07/01/83802= 33/index.htm?cnn=3Dyes

http://tinyurl.com/qmw72

Enjoy!

Regards,
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.Zazzle.com/orionworks
--=_f215119a31b6a214bcce304023344a25-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 14 02:06:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6E95wMK008531; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 02:05:59 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6E95tNs008505; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 02:05:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 02:05:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=gac5E5Wj50ICDXv4fwFjUMu9WMC3jdO5ODv9eft7URKH6Qxx8dg5lZ3ilwZ3ZD3I; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220067514954543 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 03:05:45 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940f1858f1e09b049909eba9c3f995d4c7a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.84 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69644 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Nanobubbles and Free-energy Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Endothermic Nanobubble formation, drawing "free energy" from the world to hydrate-solvate ions and make bubbles? Great tutorials. http://www.wwnorton.com/chemistry/overview/ch13.htm#hydration ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

Endothermic Nanobubble formation, drawing "free energy" from
the world to hydrate-solvate ions and make bubbles?
 
Great tutorials.
 
 
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 14 03:32:02 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6EAVbuP029036; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 03:31:38 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6EAVXxK028987; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 03:31:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 03:31:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=eyaKVjBaULSUWkwm7Nn0SPZj9Ay7IgsalFUVnuMvTGqF3WdMFkLXLjfNSI3WjOyn; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220067514103118693 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 04:31:18 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94085f0df7784406e3ed93fdc750dab1bd0350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.184 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69645 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Nanobubbles and Free-energy Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Nitric Oxide (NO) is 6.5 times as soluble in water (0.056 g/liter) as Oxygen and Argon (0.0086 g/liter). OTOH, O2 has some interesting properties for nucleating nanobubbles. I love the animations. :-) http://waterontheweb.org/curricula/bs/teacher/oxygen/teaching.html ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Nitric Oxide (NO) is 6.5 times as soluble in water (0.056 g/liter)
as Oxygen and Argon (0.0086 g/liter).
 
OTOH, O2 has some interesting properties for nucleating
nanobubbles.
 
I love the animations.  :-)
 
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 14 06:42:08 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6EDfuZX020479; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 06:41:56 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6EDfsmn020448; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 06:41:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 06:41:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060714134146348.551CA9000082 mwinf3207.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060714134145.00b9a730 pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:41:45 +0100 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: [Vo]: Nanobubbles and Free-energy Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6EDflH1020369 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69646 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:40 am 13/07/2006 -0700, Jones wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: Frederick Sparber > > > A fundamental law? > Energy is inversely proportional to radius? > > > Certainly true regarding photon wavelength > > - plus - Prof. Casimir sez: as you go smaller > and smaller in dimensions, then the increase > turns from cubic to fourth-power, > therefore ... one might suppose - that this > threshold of about 100 nm is (hypothetically) > the real advantage of a nanobubble over a > microbubble ? > > Jones > > The sequence of fourth powers of integers goes: > 1, 16, 81, 256, 625, 1296, 2401, 4096, 6561, 10000, That would be true for the solid vapour drop between 100° and the critical temperature but because vapour is a spherical shell between 0° and 100° I believe it should be an eighth power. The sequence for eighth powers of integers one to ten goes: 1 - 256 - 6,561 - 65,536 - 390,625 - .......... 100,000,000 which means its potential energy would increase by a factor of 100 million. 8-) %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Since I wrote the above (which got bounced) I see that Fred is up to a sixth and seventh power - but let's not make an issue of it. The essential thing is that it is the equivalent of the adiabatic branches in the Alpha- atmosphere Carnot cycle. One might say that the "power" compression is the..... ================================================= et aliud cecidit in terram bonam et dabat fructum ascendentem et crescentem et adferebat unum triginta et unum sexaginta et unum centum ================================================= I now realise that Jones is the one who has really got the tiger by the tail in his recognition that as the scale decreases we meet with a discontinuity in behavior. Let's call it the Casimir phase boundary - or better still the Caspar boundary. I must confess that in the discussion on the Yahoo site I was still thinking in terms of the working fluid inside the bubble being a gas - Jones was racing ahead and I hadn't managed to catch up. But I now see that the enormous change is scale means that we have crossed the boundary from a gas to a plasma of some kind. We have crossed a change in state boundary and the working fluid of the quasi-Carnot cycle is a Beta-atmosphere gas. Let's assume it is an exciton gas for now. As I have pointed out elsewhere one can go round the A-atm. Carnot cycle either by changing the space variable [switching insulation] or by changing the time variable [slow compression- expansion equals isothermal.....fast compression-expansion equals adiabatic]. Now assuming that the "conditioning" of the water that the enthusiasts seem to go on about has a real effect, it's not difficult to recognise what this represents in terms of a Beta-atmosphere exciton gas quasi-Carnot cycle. Conditioning has to be the equivalent of the slow isothermal arms of the Alpha-atmosphere Carnot. Have I caught up yet, Jones. 8-) Cheers, Frank ===================================== [Caspar] Frankincense to offer have I, incense owns a Deity nigh Prayer and praising, all men raising, Worship Him, God most high. ===================================== From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 14 08:43:40 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6EFh7T2025302; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 08:43:15 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6EFP3tI016376; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 08:25:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 08:25:03 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=ZvjJle3NIQWcqIIkQpgEQoLPz9g6Enol18yfzd7XyAR2ChZGt4mS9Lxp7CFyUP2v; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220067514152445679 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Nanobubbles and Free-energy Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 09:24:45 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94047748537853c79d8de5b2bd69f564f4a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.12 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69647 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Can't figure why some try to wing it and omit the link that tells you something drawn from the major league genius of the 19th and 20th centuries.. http://www2.ijs.si/~kkocevar/skripta.pdf 3.1 Interactions between molecules 3.1.1 Coulomb interactions: Born solvation energy of an ion >Equations in here< "The Born energy of ions in water is usually quite large. For example: The change of free energy by transferring 1 mole of anions and cations from vacuum to water is (assuming a = 0.14 nm) is -1000 kJmol-1." Concievably the"Bubble" could be the void space surrounding the hydrated ions. Any reason that these pulled from the Joe Cell can't dump megajoules of energy in the ICE cylinder? Fred > [Original Message] > From: Grimer > > At 08:40 am 13/07/2006 -0700, Jones wrote: > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Frederick Sparber > > > > > > A fundamental law? > > Energy is inversely proportional to radius? > > > > > > Certainly true regarding photon wavelength > > > > - plus - Prof. Casimir sez: as you go smaller > > and smaller in dimensions, then the increase > > turns from cubic to fourth-power, > > therefore ... one might suppose - that this > > threshold of about 100 nm is (hypothetically) > > the real advantage of a nanobubble over a > > microbubble ? > > > > Jones > > > > The sequence of fourth powers of integers goes: > > 1, 16, 81, 256, 625, 1296, 2401, 4096, 6561, 10000, > > > > > That would be true for the solid vapour drop between > 100° and the critical temperature but because vapour > is a spherical shell between 0° and 100° I believe > it should be an eighth power. > > The sequence for eighth powers of integers one to ten goes: > 1 - 256 - 6,561 - 65,536 - 390,625 - .......... 100,000,000 > > which means its potential energy would increase by a factor > of 100 million. 8-) > > %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > > Since I wrote the above (which got bounced) I see that Fred > is up to a sixth and seventh power - but let's not make an > issue of it. The essential thing is that it is the > equivalent of the adiabatic branches in the Alpha- > atmosphere Carnot cycle. One might say that the "power" > compression is the..... > > ================================================= > et aliud cecidit in terram bonam et dabat fructum > ascendentem et crescentem et adferebat unum > triginta et unum sexaginta et unum centum > ================================================= > > I now realise that Jones is the one who has really got > the tiger by the tail in his recognition that as the > scale decreases we meet with a discontinuity in behavior. > > Let's call it the Casimir phase boundary - > or better still the Caspar boundary. > > I must confess that in the discussion on the Yahoo site > I was still thinking in terms of the working fluid inside > the bubble being a gas - Jones was racing ahead and I > hadn't managed to catch up. > > But I now see that the enormous change is scale means that > we have crossed the boundary from a gas to a plasma of some > kind. We have crossed a change in state boundary and the > working fluid of the quasi-Carnot cycle is a Beta-atmosphere > gas. Let's assume it is an exciton gas for now. > > As I have pointed out elsewhere one can go round the A-atm. > Carnot cycle either by changing the space variable [switching > insulation] or by changing the time variable [slow compression- > expansion equals isothermal.....fast compression-expansion > equals adiabatic]. > > Now assuming that the "conditioning" of the water that the > enthusiasts seem to go on about has a real effect, it's not > difficult to recognise what this represents in terms of a > Beta-atmosphere exciton gas quasi-Carnot cycle. > > Conditioning has to be the equivalent of the slow isothermal > arms of the Alpha-atmosphere Carnot. > > Have I caught up yet, Jones. 8-) > > Cheers, > > Frank > > ===================================== > [Caspar] > Frankincense to offer have I, > incense owns a Deity nigh > Prayer and praising, all men raising, > Worship Him, God most high. > ===================================== > > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 14 09:14:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6EGEHS8008268; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 09:14:17 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6EGEG2E008254; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 09:14:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 09:14:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-CVTV-Spamfilter: Scanned X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Virus-Scanned: by McAfee Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <001001c6a760$869b9500$0100007f xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: [VO]:RE: Nanaobubbles and Free-energy Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 11:13:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C6A736.85C21700" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69648 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C6A736.85C21700 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000D_01C6A736.85C21700" ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C6A736.85C21700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankGrimer wrote.. The essential thing is that it is the equivalent of the adiabatic branches in the Alpha- atmosphere Carnot cycle. One might say that the "power" compression is the..=20 I now realise that Jones is the one who has really got the tiger by the tail in his recognition that as the scale decreases we meet with a discontinuity in behavior. Let's call it the Casimir phase boundary - or better still the Caspar boundary. e..... ut I now see that the enormous change is scale means that we have crossed the boundary from a gas to a plasma of some kind. We have crossed a change in state boundary and the working fluid of the quasi-Carnot cycle is a Beta-atmosphere gas. Let's assume it is an exciton gas for now. As I have pointed out elsewhere one can go round the A-atm. Carnot cycle either by changing the space variable [switching insulation] or by changing the time variable [slow compression- expansion equals isothermal.....fast compression-expansion equals adiabatic]. Now assuming that the "conditioning" of the water that the enthusiasts seem to go on about has a real effect, it's not difficult to recognise what this represents in terms of a Beta-atmosphere exciton gas quasi-Carnot cycle. Conditioning has to be the equivalent of the slow isothermal arms of the Alpha-atmosphere Carnot. Have I caught up yet, Jones. 8-) Howdy Frank.. First experience was way back when we were filling a Hydropneumatic tank = with water from a well. The 20,000 gallon tank positioned horizontally = was some 30 feet long. The fun began when the water level in the = horizontal cylindrical tank reached 40% full and the games began when = the water level reached 66% full... well lets say the pressure was = playing the games... err.. I mean what we considered to be gauge = pressure. Gained a whole new respect for the word..adiabatic.. Little did I realize at the time the Latin Phrase for head scratching = would later be published in Frank's post < grin> Richard ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C6A736.85C21700 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Grimer wrote..
 
The essential thing is that it is the
equivalent of the = adiabatic=20 branches in the Alpha-
atmosphere Carnot cycle. One might say that = the=20 "power"
compression is the..
I now realise that Jones is the one who has really got
the tiger = by the=20 tail in his recognition that as the
scale decreases we meet with a=20 discontinuity in behavior.

Let's call it the Casimir phase = boundary=20 -
or better still the Caspar boundary. <g>
e.....

ut I now see that the enormous change is scale means that
we have = crossed=20 the boundary from a gas to a plasma of some
kind. We have crossed a = change in=20 state boundary and the
working fluid of the quasi-Carnot cycle is a=20 Beta-atmosphere
gas. Let's assume it is an exciton gas for = now.

As I=20 have pointed out elsewhere one can go round the A-atm.
Carnot cycle = either by=20 changing the space variable [switching
insulation] or by changing the = time=20 variable [slow compression-
expansion equals isothermal.....fast=20 compression-expansion
equals adiabatic].

Now assuming that the = "conditioning" of the water that the
enthusiasts seem to go on about = has a=20 real effect, it's not
difficult to recognise what this represents in = terms of=20 a
Beta-atmosphere exciton gas quasi-Carnot cycle.

Conditioning = has to=20 be the equivalent of the slow isothermal
arms of the Alpha-atmosphere = Carnot.

Have I caught up yet, Jones. 8-)

Howdy Frank..

First experience was way back when we were filling a Hydropneumatic = tank with=20 water from a well. The 20,000 gallon tank positioned horizontally was = some 30=20 feet long. The fun began when the water level in the horizontal = cylindrical tank=20 reached 40% full and the games began when the water level reached 66% = full...=20 well lets say the pressure was playing the games... err.. I mean what we = considered to be gauge pressure. Gained a whole new respect for the=20 word..adiabatic..

Little did I realize at the time the Latin Phrase for head scratching = would=20 later be published in Frank's post < grin>

Richard


 

------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C6A736.85C21700-- ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C6A736.85C21700 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000b01c6a760$6e8a6360$0100007f xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C6A736.85C21700-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 14 11:01:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6EI0fT2013501; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 11:00:41 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6EI0cZr013467; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 11:00:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 11:00:38 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:00:33 -0400 Message-Id: <8C87586896A3740-1A64-1625B mblkn-m11.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <8C87411E010C8BF-19C-2EB49 mblkn-m14.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <8C87411E010C8BF-19C-2EB49 mblkn-m14.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Subject: Re: [Vo]: Wormholes and Orbital Days Inn Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.129 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6EI0aB4013432 Resent-Message-ID: <5A3XyC.A.XSD.Fv9tEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69649 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Terry Robert Bigelow's projects are always "out there".    http://www.newscientistspace.com/article/dn9533-model-of-inflatable-space   -hotel-set-to-launch.html    http://tinyurl.com/gt29y    "Model of inflatable space hotel set to launch  20:46 11 July 2006    An inflatable spacecraft designed to test technology for a future space hotel is to be launched from Russia on Wednesday.    "Everything is on track and scheduled for launch," Robert Bigelow told New Scientist in a prepared statement. Bigelow is the founder of Bigelow Aerospace in Las Vegas, Nevada, US, which is behind the inflatable test vehicle. "  <><><><><><> It worked! http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060714/ap_on_sc/private_space_station From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 14 11:13:18 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6EICvtN021453; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 11:12:59 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6EICt9i021409; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 11:12:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 11:12:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:13:23 -0500 From: Harry Veeder In-reply-to: To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69650 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: OffTopic: Male Pride and Female Prejudice Status: RO X-Status: Male Pride and Female Prejudice op-ed columist John Tierney January 3, 2006 NYTimes.com When there are three women for every two men graduating from college, whom will the third woman marry? This is not an academic question. Women, who were a minority on campuses a quarter-century ago, today make up 57 percent of undergraduates, and the gender gap is projected to reach a 60-40 ratio within a few years. So more women, especially black and Hispanic women, will be in a position to get better-paying, more prestigious jobs than their husbands, which makes for a tricky variation of ''Pride and Prejudice.'' It's still a universal truth, as Jane Austen wrote, that a man with a fortune has good marriage prospects. It's not so universal for a woman with a fortune, because pride makes some men determined to be the chief breadwinner. But these traditionalists seem to be a dwindling minority as men have come to appreciate the value of a wife's paycheck. A woman's earning power, while hardly the first thing that men look for, has become a bigger draw, as shown in surveys of college students over the decades. In 1996, for the first time, college men rated a potential mate's financial prospects as more important than her skills as a cook or a housekeeper. In the National Survey of Families and Households conducted during the early 1990's, the average single man under 35 said he was quite willing to marry someone earning much more than he did. He wasn't as interested in marrying someone making much less than he did, and he was especially reluctant to marry a woman who was unlikely to hold a steady job. Those findings jibe with what I've seen. I can't think of any friend who refused to date a woman because she made more money than he did. When friends have married women with bigger paychecks, the only financial complaints I've heard from them have come when a wife later decided to pursue a more meaningful -- i.e., less lucrative -- career. Nor can I recall hearing guys insult a man, to his face or behind his back, for making less than his wife. The only snide comments I've heard have come from women talking about their friends' husbands. I've heard just a couple of hardened Manhattanites do that, but I wouldn't dismiss them as isolated reactionaries because you can see this prejudice in that national survey of singles under 35. The women surveyed were less willing to marry down -- marry someone with much lower earnings or less education -- than the men were to marry up. And, in line with Jane Austen, the women were also more determined to marry up than the men were. You may think that women's attitudes are changing as they get more college degrees and financial independence. A women who's an executive can afford to marry a struggling musician. But that doesn't necessarily mean she wants to. Studies by David Buss of the University of Texas and others have shown that women with higher incomes, far from relaxing their standards, put more emphasis on a mate's financial resources. And once they're married, women with higher incomes seem less tolerant of their husbands' shortcomings. Steven Nock of the University of Virginia has found that marriages in which the wife and husband earn roughly the same are more likely to fail than other marriages. That situation doesn't affect the husband's commitment to the marriage, Nock concludes, but it weakens the wife's and makes her more likely to initiate divorce. It's understandable that women with good paychecks have higher standards for their partners, since their superior intelligence, education and income give them what Buss calls high ''mate value.'' They know they're catches and want to find someone with equal mate value -- someone like Mr. Darcy instead of a dullard like the cleric spurned by Elizabeth Bennet. ''Of course, some women marry for love and find a man's resources irrelevant,'' Buss says. ''It's just that the men women tend to fall in love with, on average, happen to have more resources.'' Which means that, on average, college-educated women and high-school-educated men will have a harder time finding partners as long as educators keep ignoring the gender gap that starts long before college. Advocates for women have been so effective politically that high schools and colleges are still focusing on supposed discrimination against women: the shortage of women in science classes and on sports teams rather than the shortage of men, period. You could think of this as a victory for women's rights, but many of the victors will end up celebrating alone. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 14 11:37:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6EIb5nq004235; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 11:37:06 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6EIb0ET004175; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 11:37:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 11:37:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:36:53 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net Message-Id: <8C8758B9C968B63-1A30-8DE9 mblkn-m09.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Subject: Re: [Vo]: OffTopic: Male Pride and Female Prejudice Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.73 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <-eTUlB.A.DBB.KR-tEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69651 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Harry Veeder Male Pride and Female Prejudice <><><><><> Doesn't matter, men are unneeded: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_ id=395242&in_page_id=1770 http://tinyurl.com/htem7 Sorry chaps, but you're utterly redundant 23:38pm 11th July 2006 Her name was Frances Swiney, a feminist whose vision for the sisterhood and humanity was more than a trifle extreme. She thought men were the waste products of the reproductive process and wanted them eliminated. Her ideal method was asexual reproduction - the creation of children without a man involved. That way, she thought, women could look forward to the "gradual extinction of the distinctive male organism and the assimilation of the male to the female". Until now, people like Mrs Swiney, who lived in the 19th century, were considered to be several apples short of a picnic. But now her vision of a female-only world is all but with us. Sorry to tell you, men, but you are shortly to be declared redundant, superfluous to the requirements of the human race, written out of the reproductive script. Cheerio and please close the door behind you on your way out of history. At least this is the prospect laid out before us by the latest lurch into the brave new world of medical research. In the attempt to find a cure for male infertility, a Newcastle University biologist, Karim Nayernia, has succeeded in using artificially produced sperm to fertilise mouse eggs. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 14 11:39:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6EIdWFr005806; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 11:39:33 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6EIdUK0005786; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 11:39:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 11:39:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <44B7E4DA.5030004 pobox.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:39:22 -0400 From: "Stephen A. Lawrence" User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Wires from bacteria References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69652 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Harry Veeder wrote: > > RICHLAND, Wash. ­ When Yuri Gorby discovered that a microbe which > transforms toxic metals can sprout tiny electrically conductive wires > from its cell membrane, he reasoned this anatomical oddity and its > metal-changing physiology must be related... > > http://www.pnl.gov/news/release.asp?id=171 Anybody know what this means? : "/"Shewanella/, of interest in environmental cleanup for its ability to hasten the weathering of toxic metals into benign ones" How do you "weather" a toxic metal (like, perhaps, lead, arsenic, mercury...) into a "benign one" (as in a benign metal, like, aluminum, copper, iron, ...?) ? There's clearly something here that I'm not getting. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 14 12:00:31 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6EIxxKU020831; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:00:00 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6EIxvPU020793; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 11:59:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 11:59:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:59:47 -0400 Message-Id: <8C8758ECFEED88B-1A30-8EBB mblkn-m09.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <44B7E4DA.5030004@pobox.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <44B7E4DA.5030004 pobox.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Subject: Re: [Vo]: Wires from bacteria Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.73 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6EIxoEs020738 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69653 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Stephen A. Lawrence Anybody know what this means? :    "/"Shewanella/, of interest in environmental cleanup for its ability  to hasten the weathering of toxic metals into benign ones"    How do you "weather" a toxic metal (like, perhaps, lead, arsenic, mercury...) into a "benign one" (as in a benign metal, like, aluminum, copper, iron, ...?) ?    There's clearly something here that I'm not getting.  <><><><><><> Here's a similar article: http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/science/07/13/gold.from.dust.ap/index.html http://tinyurl.com/kwq92 Thar's gold in them thar microbes Thursday, July 13, 2006; Posted: 11:32 p.m. EDT (03:32 GMT) Gold nuggets: Bacteria may contribute to their formation. SYDNEY, Australia (AP) -- Researchers in Australia have uncovered evidence that a tiny microbe may have the Midas touch of Greek legend, capable of turning dust to gold. Findings reported in the July 14 issue of the U.S.-based magazine "Science" suggest a bacteria known as Ralstonia metallidurans may play a key role in creating gold nuggets and grains. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 14 12:07:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6EJ7Mjw025435; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:07:22 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6EJ7JmX025398; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:07:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:07:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060714143036.04118600 mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 15:07:06 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: [Vo]: OffTopic: Male Pride and Female Prejudice In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <_0O7C.A.vMG.mt-tEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69654 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Tierney wrote: >The women surveyed were less willing to marry down -- marry someone with >much lower earnings or less education -- than the men were to marry up. And, >in line with Jane Austen, the women were also more determined to marry up >than the men were. As far as I know, this is true in all ancient and modern hierarchical societies, such as prewar Japan and present-day India. Anthropologists call this the "leftover Brahmin woman problem." Household status is determined by the husband's social position, so men feel much freer to marry below their station. >You may think that women's attitudes are changing as they get more college >degrees and financial independence. Why would I think that? On the contrary, the most highly educated sector of society tends to be the most conservative, because people who go to college have money and they have the biggest stake in the status quo. If anything, increased female participation in higher education will lead to increased conservatism among women, and more concern about obsolete social mores, hierarchy and the other petty concerns that dominate the waking hours of most primates. >A women who's an executive can afford to marry a struggling >musician. But that doesn't necessarily mean she wants to. And is unlikely that she will, in any traditional society (including the conservative sectors of our own). >Which means that, on average, college-educated women and >high-school-educated men will have a harder time finding partners as long as >educators keep ignoring the gender gap that starts long before college. Say what?!? The problem is not the gender gap, it is the obsolete social mores. Women should stop worrying about who they marry. Educators did not cause the gap to appear and they can do nothing to close it. If anything, university level educators tend to be prejudiced in favor of men, since most still are still men and they tend to be wealthy and therefore conservative. In my experience, having sent two daughters through universities, professors and the university establishment make trouble for women, and they make thing much more challenging -- which is probably why the women succeed, come to think of it. As my mother used to say, you have to do twice as well as a man to get half the credit. Anyone who doubts that academic professionals tend to be stick-in-the-mud conservatives and conformists should look at their response to cold fusion. In the 1930s through the 1950s, U.S. university professors earned such small salaries they could barely make ends meet, and their wives usually worked. In the late 1960s, when Mizuno became a junior professor he earned about $400 per month (as he describes in his new book). After the baby blue of the 1960s and the changes in the educational establishment, professors began earning far more money, and the whole complexion of the professorial class changed. The radical left-wing professor is a myth, 50-years out of date. >Advocates for women have been so effective politically that high schools and >colleges are still focusing on supposed discrimination against women . . . That is utter nonsense. >. . . the shortage of women in science classes . . . . . . is a good indication of how prejudiced and sexist the science establishment still remains. By the way, the academic gap measured in SAT scores and the like only exists in middle and lower class children. Wealthy children of both sexes do about equally well, and the men tend to get into the university more easily because by tradition they get a free pass and everyone cuts them slack. That is why lazy, towel-snapping gentleman's C- dolts and frat-boys such as G. W. Bush and Al Gore managed to get into -- and out of -- Harvard Business School, and why they still end up being the president of the United States. See: http://www.cs.umass.edu/~immerman/play/opinion05/WithoutADoubt.html See also: "The New Gender Divide At Colleges, Women Are Leaving Men in the Dust" http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/09/education/09college.html - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 14 13:09:40 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6EK9Qwb028646; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 13:09:26 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6EK9OuT028633; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 13:09:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 13:09:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060714154502.04119528 mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 16:09:11 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: [Vo]: OffTopic: Male Pride and Female Prejudice In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060714143036.04118600 mindspring.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060714143036.04118600 mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69655 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I wrote: >That is why lazy, towel-snapping gentleman's C- dolts and frat-boys >such as G. W. Bush and Al Gore managed to get into -- and out of -- >Harvard Business School, and why they still end up being the >president of the United States. See: > >http://www.cs.umass.edu/~immerman/play/opinion05/WithoutADoubt.html I do not think this file requires registration, by the way, even though it appeared in the New York Times. It describes the "affirmative action" helping hand that super-rich white boys get, no matter how badly they screw up. Anyone who thinks there is a level playing field in U.S. society has no clue how the world works. QUOTE: Rubenstein described that time to a convention of pension managers in Los Angeles last year, recalling that Malek approached him and said: ''There is a guy who would like to be on the board. He's kind of down on his luck a bit. Needs a job. . . . Needs some board positions.'' Though Rubenstein didn't think George W. Bush, then in his mid-40's, ''added much value,'' he put him on the Caterair board. ''Came to all the meetings,'' Rubenstein told the conventioneers. ''Told a lot of jokes. Not that many clean ones. And after a while I kind of said to him, after about three years: 'You know, I'm not sure this is really for you. Maybe you should do something else. Because I don't think you're adding that much value to the board. You don't know that much about the company.' He said: 'Well, I think I'm getting out of this business anyway. And I don't really like it that much. So I'm probably going to resign from the board.' And I said thanks. Didn't think I'd ever see him again.'' The guy quoted here is on the board of directors at the Carlyle Group, a $39 billion investment firm. (http://www.carlyle.com/eng/index.html) can you believe that someone in his position with his level of responsibility would be willing to put someone on the board of a corporation because the guy "needs a job"?!? Note that in the halls of power you would never hear anyone say "because SHE needs a job." This is directly relevant to cold fusion. The Carlyle Group is the kind of institution that should be investing in cold fusion. Assuming it is still run by people who promote towel-snapping dolts who happen to "need a job," we can surmise it is unlikely the management will have enough acumen to see that cold fusion is real and potentially the most profitable investment in history. As Harry Truman used to say, these Washington elite characters (and big investment firm bigwigs) usually do not have enough sense to pound sand down a rat hole. The DVD documentary "Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room" will also disabuse you of any notions that the business elite knows something you do not know. I highly recommend it. After you see these people up close, in action, you wonder how they manage to walk and chew bubblegum. Their only proven ability is to engineer and operate run history's largest kleptocracy. Look at the cast of this documentary: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0413845/ - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 14 13:11:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6EKBF4C029661; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 13:11:16 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6EKBD9G029630; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 13:11:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 13:11:13 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 16:11:29 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: [Vo]: OffTopic: Male Pride and Female Prejudice In-reply-to: <7.0.1.0.2.20060714143036.04118600 mindspring.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: <0ww6f.A.6OH.fp_tEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69656 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed Rothwell wrote: > John Tierney wrote: > >> The women surveyed were less willing to marry down -- marry someone with >> much lower earnings or less education -- than the men were to marry up. And, >> in line with Jane Austen, the women were also more determined to marry up >> than the men were. > > As far as I know, this is true in all ancient and modern hierarchical > societies, such as prewar Japan and present-day India. > Anthropologists call this the "leftover Brahmin woman problem." > Household status is determined by the husband's social position, so > men feel much freer to marry below their station. > > >> You may think that women's attitudes are changing as they get more college >> degrees and financial independence. > > Why would I think that? On the contrary, the most highly educated > sector of society tends to be the most conservative, because people > who go to college have money and they have the biggest stake in the > status quo. If anything, increased female participation in higher > education will lead to increased conservatism among women, and more > concern about obsolete social mores, hierarchy and the other petty > concerns that dominate the waking hours of most primates. > >> A women who's an executive can afford to marry a struggling >> musician. But that doesn't necessarily mean she wants to. > > And is unlikely that she will, in any traditional society (including > the conservative sectors of our own). > > >> Which means that, on average, college-educated women and >> high-school-educated men will have a harder time finding partners as long as >> educators keep ignoring the gender gap that starts long before college. > > Say what?!? The problem is not the gender gap, it is the obsolete > social mores. > Women should stop worrying about who they marry. LOL. > Educators did not cause the gap to appear and they can do nothing to > close it. If anything, university level educators tend to be > prejudiced in favor of men, since most still are still men and they > tend to be wealthy and therefore conservative. In my experience, > having sent two daughters through universities, professors and the > university establishment make trouble for women, and they make thing > much more challenging -- which is probably why the women succeed, > come to think of it. As my mother used to say, you have to do twice > as well as a man to get half the credit. > > Anyone who doubts that academic professionals tend to be > stick-in-the-mud conservatives and conformists should look at their > response to cold fusion. > In the 1930s through the 1950s, U.S. university professors earned > such small salaries they could barely make ends meet, and their wives > usually worked. In the late 1960s, when Mizuno became a junior > professor he earned about $400 per month (as he describes in his new > book). After the baby blue of the 1960s and the changes in the > educational establishment, professors began earning far more money, > and the whole complexion of the professorial class changed. The > radical left-wing professor is a myth, 50-years out of date. Yes, but his article was not about the values and attitudes of contemporary professors. > >> Advocates for women have been so effective politically that high schools and >> colleges are still focusing on supposed discrimination against women . . . > > That is utter nonsense. > > >> . . . the shortage of women in science classes . . . > > . . . is a good indication of how prejudiced and sexist the science > establishment still remains. Today women only encounter serious prejudice in the specific fields of engineering, maths and physics. > By the way, the academic gap measured in SAT scores and the like only > exists in middle and lower class children. Wealthy children of both > sexes do about equally well, and the men tend to get into the > university more easily because by tradition they get a free pass and > everyone cuts them slack. That is why lazy, towel-snapping > gentleman's C- dolts and frat-boys such as G. W. Bush and Al Gore > managed to get into -- and out of -- Harvard Business School, and why > they still end up being the president of the United States. See: > > http://www.cs.umass.edu/~immerman/play/opinion05/WithoutADoubt.html He only claims that widespread gender discrimination is over. He does not claim that discrimination based on class is over. > See also: > > "The New Gender Divide > > At Colleges, Women Are Leaving Men in the Dust" > > http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/09/education/09college.html > > - Jed > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 14 13:52:37 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6EKqPt0021768; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 13:52:26 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6EKqNh2021738; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 13:52:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 13:52:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060714163324.0412d9b0 mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 16:52:11 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: [Vo]: OffTopic: Male Pride and Female Prejudice In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060714143036.04118600 mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <28u8NC.A.lTF.GQAuEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69657 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Harry Veeder wrote: >Yes, but his article was not about the values and attitudes of >contemporary professors. They are the ones who shape the academic environment, and give a pass to stupid, lazy men while they fail hardworking women. >Today women only encounter serious prejudice in the specific fields of >engineering, maths and physics. That is not what women professors and students tell me. To say the least. Really, this is like suggesting that today, black people do not encounter serious prejudice in college -- or in traffic accidents on the street for that matter. If that is what you think, I suggest you read this article about a Washington DC hairdresser named Fishburne: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/24/AR2006062401082.html Although he is Gulf War vet who carries a military ID and has fingerprints on file, the police confused him with a fugitive named Tucker who is two inches taller, 50 lbs heavier, with different fingerprints. Fishburne rotted for weeks in jail, lost his job, his car, and had thousands of dollars stolen from his credit cards after the police confiscated them. Eventually, the authorities "released" him. That is to say, they threw him out into the street in Atlanta, GA, after giving him back they $80 in cash he had on him when he was arrested, leaving him no means to return to Washington. If that happened to a white Gulf War vet it would be headlines in every newspaper and blog in the country. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 14 14:18:40 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6ELIR2d005827; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:18:27 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6ELIOAD005792; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:18:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:18:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=ix.netcom.com; b=YSfHtQQ03l5UyySVt0zxiXlL+Vs9eI+faHHvR/MTMrXwPtFL9/fmGKKNXEznc4XX; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <380-220067514211828410 ix.netcom.com> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: aki ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.122.0 (Windows) From: "" To: "vortex-l" Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:18:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: c4cc7f5f697e8746f66dc3a06d5924d8c62f4463dc611b16d5b0c12ffd6650df27b02ac19e33883a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 216.175.85.80 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69658 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: FW: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday July 14, 2006 Status: RO X-Status: forward from aki ix.netcom.com (Akira Kawasaki) > [Original Message] > From: What's New To: Date: 7/14/2006 1:52:33 PM Subject: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday July 14, 2006 WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 14 Jul 06 Washington, DC 1. ABC PRIMETIME: WAKE UP ABC, IT'S THE TWENTY-FIRST CENTURY! Here's the scene: Adam Dreamhealer is a normal 19 year-old, who wears an earring, has a tattoo, pumps iron, and all that stuff. A regular guy, except he has this gift. It came from a 4-foot tall blackbird he encountered on a strange island. The bird downloaded all the world's knowledge into Adam's head. Now Adam goes into trances in dark rooms to manipulate quantum holograms with his hands. (Tom Cruise in Minority Report?) It enables Adam to cure cancers that haven't been verified by biopsy. How does it work? "Quantum mechanics." An over-the-hill physicist said scientists "groan" at that explanation. He said more but it was cut. Dr. Edgar Mitchell of Apollo 14 fame came on and agreed with Adam that it must be quantum mechanics. It was Mitchell who carried out ESP experiments from space, and now worries about all of these UFO visits. He is the author of Quantum Holography: A Basis for the Interface Between Mind and Matter. Why am I telling you this? Because I was the "over-the-hill physicist" who allowed himself to be used. I will perform any penance WN readers feel is appropriate. I really should have known better: http://bobpark.physics.umd.edu/WN05/wn021105.html . 2. DOUBLE BLIND: WHAT THE MEDIA JUST CAN'T SEEM TO UNDERSTAND. Feynman once described science as "what we have learned about how not to fool ourselves." The most important discovery in medicine is the randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled test, by means of which we learn what works and what doesn't. When I was first contacted by ABC about Adam Dreamhealer, a producer asked how I would respond to Adam's claims? "I would ask for the test results," I replied. But of course, there are no test results. That's the point. And it's the only point ABC needed to make. 3. PARTICLE PHYSICS: REVEALING THE HIDDEN NATURE OF SPACE & TIME. The U.S. program is described as being at a "crossroads," but it could be mistaken for a roadblock. The Committee on Elementary Particle Physics of the National Academies recommends priorities for the next 15 years: 1) Fully exploit the LHC at CERN; 2) Mount a compelling bid to build the International Collider on U.S. soil; and 3) Expand particle astrophysics and pursue a program in neutrino physics internationally. 4. SOUL SEARCHING: ZYGOTES, PEOPLE, AND THE TWIN PARADOXES. Several readers commented on last week's science v. religion story that, if a zygote is assigned a soul, identical twins would have to share a soul. One reader noted that in the very rare case of chimerism, which involves the fusion of two paternal twin zygotes, one person would have two souls. Identical twins, however, as we all know, are not identical. Many connections in the brain, mostly dealing with language, are still not completed at birth. In the sense that our "essence" is our "soul," the soul keeps changing throughout life. THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND. Opinions are the author's and not necessarily shared by the University of Maryland, but they should be. --- Archives of What's New can be found at http://www.bobpark.org What's New is moving to a different listserver and our subscription process has changed. To change your subscription status please visit this link: http://listserv.umd.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=bobparks-whatsnew&A=1 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 14 14:49:41 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6ELnSNi022282; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:49:29 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6ELnRG7022259; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:49:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:49:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060714214923727.B1A7FB000084 mwinf3213.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060714214922.00bd6d0c pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 22:49:22 +0100 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: [Vo]: OffTopic: Male Pride and Female Prejudice Resent-Message-ID: <76Z6YD.A.vbF.mFBuEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69659 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: [snip} > See also: > > "The New Gender Divide > > At Colleges, Women Are Leaving Men in the Dust" > > http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/09/education/09college.html > > - Jed Whilst on this interesting subject. I've often wondered how many ladies there are in our Vortex group. If I had to guess I would say, none. 8-) Any pseudonyms prepared to 'fess up. If I didn't know better I'd think Terry was a gal cos it's a very androgynous monika. Frank From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 14 16:08:19 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6EN89cs030304; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 16:08:10 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6EN88EJ030287; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 16:08:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 16:08:08 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 19:08:01 -0400 Message-Id: <8C875B17D47AEA9-918-16A9B mblkn-m19.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <2.2.32.20060714214922.00bd6d0c pop.freeserve.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.20060714214922.00bd6d0c pop.freeserve.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Subject: Re: [Vo]: OffTopic: Male Pride and Female Prejudice Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.137 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <9YnWYC.A.LZH.XPCuEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69660 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Grimer If I didn't know better I'd think Terry was a gal cos it's a very androgynous monika. <><><><><> So, how can you 'know'? Remote viewing? Terri From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 14 17:52:18 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6F0q6Ie029024; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 17:52:06 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6F0q4Px028993; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 17:52:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 17:52:04 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 20:52:18 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: [Vo]: OffTopic: Male Pride and Female Prejudice In-reply-to: <7.0.1.0.2.20060714163324.0412d9b0 mindspring.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69661 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jed Rothwell wrote: > Harry Veeder wrote: > >> Yes, but his article was not about the values and attitudes of >> contemporary professors. > > They are the ones who shape the academic environment, and give a pass > to stupid, lazy men while they fail hardworking women. > >> Today women only encounter serious prejudice in the specific fields of >> engineering, maths and physics. > > That is not what women professors and students tell me. To say the least. How do square your statements above with these remarks from your last post?: > ...the most highly educated >sector of society tends to be the most conservative, because people >who go to college have money and they have the biggest stake in the >status quo. If anything, increased female participation in higher >education will lead to increased conservatism among women, and more >concern about obsolete social mores, hierarchy and the other petty >concerns that dominate the waking hours of most primates. I would suggest to you that many (not all) of the claims of prejudice are rooted in petty concerns. > Really, this is like suggesting that today, black people do not > encounter serious prejudice in college -- or in traffic accidents on > the street for that matter. If that is what you think, I suggest you > read this article about a Washington DC hairdresser named Fishburne: I made no such suggestion. You are suggesting it. > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/24/AR200606240108 > 2.html > > Although he is Gulf War vet who carries a military ID and has > fingerprints on file, the police confused him with a fugitive named > Tucker who is two inches taller, 50 lbs heavier, with different > fingerprints. Fishburne rotted for weeks in jail, lost his job, his > car, and had thousands of dollars stolen from his credit cards after > the police confiscated them. Eventually, the authorities "released" > him. That is to say, they threw him out into the street in Atlanta, > GA, after giving him back they $80 in cash he had on him when he was > arrested, leaving him no means to return to Washington. I hope justice is served. > If that happened to a white Gulf War vet it would be headlines in > every newspaper and blog in the country. Irrelevant speculation. Harry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 14 18:25:43 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6F1PSPW018154; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 18:25:29 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6F1PQiX018135; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 18:25:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 18:25:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <009901c6a7ad$8a673c00$3800a8c0 zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <8C87411E010C8BF-19C-2EB49 mblkn-m14.sysops.aol.com> <8C87586896A3740-1A64-1625B@mblkn-m11.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: [Vo]: Wormholes and Orbital Days Inn Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 03:25:20 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6F1POcY018104 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69662 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ... > "Everything is on track and scheduled for launch," Robert Bigelow told > New Scientist in a prepared statement. Bigelow is the founder of > Bigelow Aerospace in Las Vegas, Nevada, US, which is behind the > inflatable test vehicle. " > > <><><><><><> > > It worked! > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060714/ap_on_sc/private_space_station Indeed, fascinating! Private space seems to be much more efficient than public space. http://www.bigelowaerospace.com/ Michel From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 14 18:44:01 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6F1hj2O027479; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 18:43:46 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6F1hhhs027456; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 18:43:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 18:43:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 21:43:35 -0400 Message-Id: <8C875C7386EDEB7-554-60C6 mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <8C87411E010C8BF-19C-2EB49 mblkn-m14.sysops.aol.com> <8C87586896A3740-1A64-1625B@mblkn-m11.sysops.aol.com> <009901c6a7ad$8a673c00$3800a8c0@zothan> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <009901c6a7ad$8a673c00$3800a8c0 zothan> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Subject: Re: [Vo]: Wormholes and Orbital Days Inn Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.133 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <7IHt2D.A.6sG.OhEuEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69663 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Michel Jullian Indeed, fascinating! Private space seems to be much more efficient than public space. http://www.bigelowaerospace.com/ <><><><><> I suppose it depends on whose money is being spent. ;-) Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 14 22:43:00 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6F5gmc3027475; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 22:42:48 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6F5gksn027456; Fri, 14 Jul 2006 22:42:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 22:42:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <44B88039.7030003 usfamily.net> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 00:42:17 -0500 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Wires from bacteria References: <44B7E4DA.5030004@pobox.com> <8C8758ECFEED88B-1A30-8EBB@mblkn-m09.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C8758ECFEED88B-1A30-8EBB mblkn-m09.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69664 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: hohlrauml6d netscape.net wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Stephen A. Lawrence > > Anybody know what this means? : > > > SYDNEY, Australia (AP) -- Researchers in Australia have uncovered > evidence that a tiny microbe may have the Midas touch of Greek legend, > capable of turning dust to gold. > > Findings reported in the July 14 issue of the U.S.-based magazine > "Science" suggest a bacteria known as Ralstonia metallidurans may play > a key role in creating gold nuggets and grains. > Those microbes "pass" gold. I'm going to have to read that article. Thanks for the heads up. --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 15 02:44:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6F9iKr4030333; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 02:44:20 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6F9huu7030096; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 02:43:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 02:43:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Rfjk1TQcAC9tXFEP1ul/WW5T+Etxtt9IrZp5EL2DCUf55Vr/XOfFuncNxR3vh+sz; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006761594348235 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 03:43:48 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94064b65eb58f218a15e9691294b1dc5096350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.205 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69665 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Heat of Solution-Hydration of Electrons in Waterfuel Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII With the help of the Auto-ionization of water and a few days of "preconditioning", the Joe Cell should store up megajoules of Free Energy in the ~ 250 moles of water. http://www.wwnorton.com/chemistry/concepts/chapter13/ch13_1.htm http://www.wwnorton.com/chemistry/concepts/chapter13/ch13_3.htm#1 The hydrated (OH -) ion, dissolved O2, and hydrated (H +) or (H3O +) ions along with Hydrated Electrons (e -)xH2O should "evaporate" or come off the Joe Cell as neutral or charged droplets. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

With the help of the Auto-ionization of water and a few days of "preconditioning",
the Joe Cell should store up megajoules of Free Energy in the ~ 250 moles of
water.
 
 
 
 
The hydrated (OH -) ion, dissolved O2, and hydrated  (H +) or (H3O +) ions
along with Hydrated Electrons (e -)xH2O should "evaporate" or come off
the Joe Cell as neutral or charged droplets.
 
Fred
 
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 15 03:32:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6FAWKKP025402; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 03:32:20 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6FAWJaI025389; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 03:32:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 03:32:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00cc01c6a7f9$eb2d07d0$3800a8c0 zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <8C87411E010C8BF-19C-2EB49 mblkn-m14.sysops.aol.com> <8C87586896A3740-1A64-1625B@mblkn-m11.sysops.aol.com> <009901c6a7ad$8a673c00$3800a8c0@zothan> <8C875C7386EDEB7-554-60C6@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: [Vo]: Wormholes and Orbital Days Inn Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 12:32:04 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C9_01C6A80A.ADA88680" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69666 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00C9_01C6A80A.ADA88680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Indeed, fascinating! Private space seems to be much more efficient = than=20 > public > space. > http://www.bigelowaerospace.com/ >=20 > <><><><><> >=20 > I suppose it depends on whose money is being spent. ;-) >=20 > Terry Latest news on their site, there is a low res picture from the ship = (hard to make out what we are seing), plus the following insider acount: Bigelow Aerospace Looks to the Stars By Steve Pellegrino & Chris Reed of Bigelow Aerospace Launch of Genesis I Pathfinder Ushers in a New Era of Commercial Space = Development The privatization of space took a giant leap forward on Wednesday, July = 12, 2006 as Bigelow Aerospace of Las Vegas successfully launched its = pathfinder mission-Genesis I. The private sector has now entered the = space race; it will be actively involved in what was formerly the = exclusive domain of large governments and the telecommunications = industry. The future is looking better for the private sector to begin a = new chapter in the development and business of space. As the first privately funded space pathfinder module was being launched = into space, a tense and expectant silence was the only sound in the = Mission Control center of Bigelow Aerospace's sprawling complex in North = Las Vegas. Mr. Bigelow and his entire staff, from engineers to office = workers, looked on and listened with bated breath to a jury-rigged = communication link with Bigelow staff in Russia. Live From Russia As the team at Bigelow Aerospace anxiously watched and listened, the = only sound in the Mission Control center was the exuberant voice of the = company's corporate counsel, Mike Gold, describing the launch of the = Dnepr rocket carrying Genesis I from on-site at the ISC Kosmotras space = and missile complex in Russia. From the Mission Control monitors to the = managers, and from the security guards to the housekeepers, all had to = hold back their ultimate celebration until word came in that the = spacecraft was successfully delivered into orbit. "You can imagine all the pent-up joy and enthusiasm the team was = experiencing, but we had to maintain absolute silence," said mission = Program Manager Eric Haakonstad. "It was frustrating to no end." >From the technical side, the launch of the Russian Dnepr rocket went off = flawlessly. The same cannot be said for the visual transmission of the = launch back to mission control. Gold's screaming commentary saturated = the voice line to the point that for the latter stages of the launch, he = wasn't heard from at all. With personnel in Nevada already sitting on = pins and needles of nervousness, excited personnel in Russia tipped over = the camera beaming back images to Las Vegas. They never tipped it back = up. "What we were seeing in mission control was watching the audience say, = 'Look, I see it!'" said Haakonstad. "It was so exuberant that there was = no way for us to get a voice in and say, 'Hey, fix the camera.'" Gold, who was on site in Russia, was giving a play-by-play to the crowd = at Las Vegas Mission Control. Despite working 20-hour days for the week = leading up to the launch and getting little sleep, his exuberance and = enthusiasm were infectious. As he described the launch, the people in = Mission Control collectively cheered. 14 minutes later, when = confirmation arrived of a near perfect delivery and separation, the mood = in mission control was exuberant. Mr. Bigelow and Haakonstad, looking at = the screens while standing on the floor of Mission Control, were more = subdued than the rest of the crowd. Now was the critical juncture of = this endeavor: establishing command and control of the spacecraft. For = that, they would have to wait. "We felt fairly confident in Kosmotras and the Dnepr's ability to get us = into space." said Mr. Bigelow, "and they performed above and beyond = expectations, but once the vehicle separated, it was time for us to do = our part and all we could do is wait for the chance." The Waiting is the Hardest Part After the initial euphoria of the successful delivery and separation, = Mission Control once again grew silent, as the Bigelow Aerospace team = waited for the chance to establish contact with the Genesis I. That wait = would be a wait of hours, rather than minutes.=20 While the long lull was expected between the spacecraft's confirmed = separation from rocket 14 minutes after launch to the first = communication with Genesis I, that expectation did little to calm the = nerves at Mission Control. Little did the mission staff know, but as the = expected first contact with contractor SpaceQuest approached, the = SpaceQuest facility in Arlington, Virginia, was having some serious = problems, and it looked unlikely that they would be able to initiate = contact with the Genesis I. Las Vegas, We Have a Problem Just as the anticipated time of SpaceQuest's contact with the Genesis I = was approaching, a major storm caused power outages in much of the = Arlington area. SpaceQuest, which was to receive the first communication = from Genesis I and relay it to Las Vegas, had no power. Now, there was a = little more than 30 minutes before SpaceQuest controllers were supposed = to hear a cry of life from the Genesis I, but there was no life in the = receivers in Virginia.=20 SpaceQuest engineers were in a bind. They had 30 minutes to find a way = to get power and receive first contact from the Genesis I. As SpaceQuest = engineers scrambled for a solution, one noticed that there was light in = a restaurant across the street, which still miraculously had power. = Desperate for power, they got all the extension cords they could find = and went across the street to ask for help. The restaurant owner agreed = to help and SpaceQuest had power. "They ran the cords across the road to get power from the restaurant," = Bigelow said. "Cars were driving across the cord as it powered their = computers and receivers." Even after power was restored, there was another major obstacle to = overcome: the automatic system that allowed the antenna to automatically = move into position to listen to the spacecraft was not functioning = properly due to the power outage. Time was running out, and SpaceQuest = engineers now would have to manually steer the antenna themselves to = receive the signal. First Contact Bigelow Aerospace Mission Control Center in Las Vegas was anxiously = awaiting word from SpaceQuest in Virginia, Spacequest was desperately = attempting to manually position there antenna to receive Genesis I's = signal and receive it they did-loud and clear. As that message was = relayed cross-country to Las Vegas, Mission Control erupted into = exuberance. Although the wait was expected, it didn't make it any easier. At 2:09 pm = PDT-more than six hours after the 7:53 am PDT launch-the Genesis I = called home and indicated that not only was the pathfinder demonstration = space habitat functioning perfectly, it was being well-fed off its = deployed solar panels. For Bigelow, a dream first drawn out when he started Bigelow Aerospace = in 1999 had become reality. While many looked to Bigelow to see his = emotion upon the first contact with Genesis I, Bigelow was actually = looking to the more than 120 employees that had gathered inside and just = outside Mission Control. "I saw emotion on a lot of folks' faces. People were just joyful and = teary-eyed. We just had a lot of emotions going on," says Bigelow, who = also saw the downward spiral of adrenaline the morning after the launch. = "I would characterize it as the day after a battle. You have the walking = wounded, those missing in action, and we have people not up here because = they were up all night." Genesis I Calls Home "It was unbelievable. Everybody cheered. I can't believe that this day = is finally here and then an unprecedented success! Everyone just wanted = to cry," said Kathy Miller, Contract and Purchasing Manager for Bigelow = Aerospace, who has worked for Bigelow for nearly eight years. "Unless = you were really here from the beginning and went though the pain and = uncertainty, you couldn't possibly understand. In the end it was all = worth it." Creating Genesis I was literally like giving birth to a baby for Mr. = Bigelow and the employees of Bigelow Aerospace. After eight years of = planning, the actual creation and delivery into space took only nine = months. As of last October, Genesis I was only a drawing on paper, only = a concept. From that time to the July 12 launch, the spacecraft was = constructed, tested on the ground and taken to the launch site and mated = to its rocket in Russia. What makes this feat all the more incredible is = that in a span of only six months while the spacecraft was tested and = constructed; a 40,000 sq. ft. addition to the Las Vegas plant-including = the entire Mission Control facility-was built. Few have watched Bigelow Aerospace and its spacecraft grow up like Cindy = Nowicki, who joined BA in 2000 when it had just around 10 employees.=20 "I watched it grow from a very small company. I didn't think we would = get to this point this quickly," Nowicki said. "It was nice to see Mr. = Bigelow fulfill his dream. You could see it and almost see tears come to = your eyes, seeing someone do what they set out to do." The Future Looks Bright in Space In the days before the launch, engineers and managers, led by Bigelow = himself, tempered any expectations-practically expecting some degree of = failure. As later passes confirmed that Genesis I had fully expanded its = outer shell and all systems were functioning, the feeling of success = began pouring in. "This is like getting your first at bat in the major league and hitting = a Grand Slam" said Mr. Bigelow with obvious pride in the accomplishment = of his company. "We have accomplished so much and it's just the = beginning." "As well as this was, this was not the expected outcome. This was better = than the expected outcome," says Haakonstad, who still tempers the = expectations for the launch of the next space habitat-Genesis II-this = fall. "We shouldn't get spoiled by these scenarios. We'll need to take = the good with a bad, but it does set a high expectation for the next = event. We're at the start of something great here." ------=_NextPart_000_00C9_01C6A80A.ADA88680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> Indeed, fascinating! Private = space seems=20 to be much more efficient than
> public
> space.
> = http://www.bigelowaerospace.com/
>
> <><><><><>
> =
> I=20 suppose it depends on whose money is being spent.  ;-)
> =
>=20 Terry
Latest news on their site, there is a = low res=20 picture from the ship (hard to make out what we are seing), plus the = following=20 insider acount:
 

Bigelow Aerospace Looks to the Stars

By Steve Pellegrino & Chris Reed of Bigelow Aerospace

Launch of Genesis I Pathfinder Ushers in a New Era of Commercial = Space=20 Development

The privatization of space took a giant leap forward on Wednesday, = July 12,=20 2006 as Bigelow Aerospace of Las Vegas successfully launched its = pathfinder=20 mission=97Genesis I. The private sector has now entered the space race; = it will be=20 actively involved in what was formerly the exclusive domain of large = governments=20 and the telecommunications industry. The future is looking better for = the=20 private sector to begin a new chapter in the development and business of = space.

As the first privately funded space pathfinder module was being = launched into=20 space, a tense and expectant silence was the only sound in the Mission = Control=20 center of Bigelow Aerospace's sprawling complex in North Las Vegas. Mr. = Bigelow=20 and his entire staff, from engineers to office workers, looked on and = listened=20 with bated breath to a jury-rigged communication link with Bigelow staff = in=20 Russia.

Live From Russia

As the team at Bigelow Aerospace anxiously watched and listened, the = only=20 sound in the Mission Control center was the exuberant voice of the = company's=20 corporate counsel, Mike Gold, describing the launch of the Dnepr rocket = carrying=20 Genesis I from on-site at the ISC Kosmotras space and missile complex in = Russia.=20 >From the Mission Control monitors to the managers, and from the security = guards=20 to the housekeepers, all had to hold back their ultimate celebration = until word=20 came in that the spacecraft was successfully delivered into orbit.

"You can imagine all the pent-up joy and enthusiasm the team was=20 experiencing, but we had to maintain absolute silence," said mission = Program=20 Manager Eric Haakonstad. "It was frustrating to no end."

From the technical side, the launch of the Russian Dnepr rocket went = off=20 flawlessly. The same cannot be said for the visual transmission of the = launch=20 back to mission control. Gold's screaming commentary saturated the voice = line to=20 the point that for the latter stages of the launch, he wasn't heard from = at all.=20 With personnel in Nevada already sitting on pins and needles of = nervousness,=20 excited personnel in Russia tipped over the camera beaming back images = to Las=20 Vegas. They never tipped it back up.

"What we were seeing in mission control was watching the audience = say, 'Look,=20 I see it!'" said Haakonstad. "It was so exuberant that there was no way = for us=20 to get a voice in and say, 'Hey, fix the camera.'"

Gold, who was on site in Russia, was giving a play-by-play to the = crowd at=20 Las Vegas Mission Control. Despite working 20-hour days for the week = leading up=20 to the launch and getting little sleep, his exuberance and enthusiasm = were=20 infectious. As he described the launch, the people in Mission Control=20 collectively cheered. 14 minutes later, when confirmation arrived of a = near=20 perfect delivery and separation, the mood in mission control was = exuberant. Mr.=20 Bigelow and Haakonstad, looking at the screens while standing on the = floor of=20 Mission Control, were more subdued than the rest of the crowd. Now was = the=20 critical juncture of this endeavor: establishing command and control of = the=20 spacecraft. For that, they would have to wait.

"We felt fairly confident in Kosmotras and the Dnepr's ability to get = us into=20 space." said Mr. Bigelow, "and they performed above and beyond = expectations, but=20 once the vehicle separated, it was time for us to do our part and all we = could=20 do is wait for the chance."

The Waiting is the Hardest Part

After the initial euphoria of the successful delivery and separation, = Mission=20 Control once again grew silent, as the Bigelow Aerospace team waited for = the=20 chance to establish contact with the Genesis I. That wait would be a = wait of=20 hours, rather than minutes.

While the long lull was expected between the spacecraft's confirmed=20 separation from rocket 14 minutes after launch to the first = communication with=20 Genesis I, that expectation did little to calm the nerves at Mission = Control.=20 Little did the mission staff know, but as the expected first contact = with=20 contractor SpaceQuest approached, the SpaceQuest facility in Arlington,=20 Virginia, was having some serious problems, and it looked unlikely that = they=20 would be able to initiate contact with the Genesis I.

Las Vegas, We Have a Problem

Just as the anticipated time of SpaceQuest's contact with the Genesis = I was=20 approaching, a major storm caused power outages in much of the Arlington = area.=20 SpaceQuest, which was to receive the first communication from Genesis I = and=20 relay it to Las Vegas, had no power. Now, there was a little more than = 30=20 minutes before SpaceQuest controllers were supposed to hear a cry of = life from=20 the Genesis I, but there was no life in the receivers in Virginia.

SpaceQuest engineers were in a bind. They had 30 minutes to find a = way to get=20 power and receive first contact from the Genesis I. As SpaceQuest = engineers=20 scrambled for a solution, one noticed that there was light in a = restaurant=20 across the street, which still miraculously had power. Desperate for = power, they=20 got all the extension cords they could find and went across the street = to ask=20 for help. The restaurant owner agreed to help and SpaceQuest had = power.

"They ran the cords across the road to get power from the = restaurant,"=20 Bigelow said. "Cars were driving across the cord as it powered their = computers=20 and receivers."

Even after power was restored, there was another major obstacle to = overcome:=20 the automatic system that allowed the antenna to automatically move into = position to listen to the spacecraft was not functioning properly due to = the=20 power outage. Time was running out, and SpaceQuest engineers now would = have to=20 manually steer the antenna themselves to receive the signal.

First Contact

Bigelow Aerospace Mission Control Center in Las Vegas was anxiously = awaiting=20 word from SpaceQuest in Virginia, Spacequest was desperately attempting = to=20 manually position there antenna to receive Genesis I's signal and = receive it=20 they did=97loud and clear. As that message was relayed cross-country to = Las Vegas,=20 Mission Control erupted into exuberance.

Although the wait was expected, it didn't make it any easier. At 2:09 = pm=20 PDT=97more than six hours after the 7:53 am PDT launch=97the Genesis I = called home=20 and indicated that not only was the pathfinder demonstration space = habitat=20 functioning perfectly, it was being well-fed off its deployed solar = panels.

For Bigelow, a dream first drawn out when he started Bigelow = Aerospace in=20 1999 had become reality. While many looked to Bigelow to see his emotion = upon=20 the first contact with Genesis I, Bigelow was actually looking to the = more than=20 120 employees that had gathered inside and just outside Mission = Control.

"I saw emotion on a lot of folks' faces. People were just joyful and=20 teary-eyed. We just had a lot of emotions going on," says Bigelow, who = also saw=20 the downward spiral of adrenaline the morning after the launch. "I would = characterize it as the day after a battle. You have the walking wounded, = those=20 missing in action, and we have people not up here because they were up = all=20 night."

Genesis I Calls Home

"It was unbelievable. Everybody cheered. I can't believe that this = day is=20 finally here and then an unprecedented success! Everyone just wanted to = cry,"=20 said Kathy Miller, Contract and Purchasing Manager for Bigelow = Aerospace, who=20 has worked for Bigelow for nearly eight years. "Unless you were really = here from=20 the beginning and went though the pain and uncertainty, you couldn't = possibly=20 understand. In the end it was all worth it."

Creating Genesis I was literally like giving birth to a baby for Mr. = Bigelow=20 and the employees of Bigelow Aerospace. After eight years of planning, = the=20 actual creation and delivery into space took only nine months. As of = last=20 October, Genesis I was only a drawing on paper, only a concept. From = that time=20 to the July 12 launch, the spacecraft was constructed, tested on the = ground and=20 taken to the launch site and mated to its rocket in Russia. What makes = this feat=20 all the more incredible is that in a span of only six months while the=20 spacecraft was tested and constructed; a 40,000 sq. ft. addition to the = Las=20 Vegas plant=97including the entire Mission Control facility=97was = built.

Few have watched Bigelow Aerospace and its spacecraft grow up like = Cindy=20 Nowicki, who joined BA in 2000 when it had just around 10 employees. =

"I watched it grow from a very small company. I didn't think we would = get to=20 this point this quickly," Nowicki said. "It was nice to see Mr. Bigelow = fulfill=20 his dream. You could see it and almost see tears come to your eyes, = seeing=20 someone do what they set out to do."

The Future Looks Bright in Space

In the days before the launch, engineers and managers, led by Bigelow = himself, tempered any expectations=97practically expecting some degree = of failure.=20 As later passes confirmed that Genesis I had fully expanded its outer = shell and=20 all systems were functioning, the feeling of success began pouring = in.

"This is like getting your first at bat in the major league and = hitting a=20 Grand Slam" said Mr. Bigelow with obvious pride in the accomplishment of = his=20 company. "We have accomplished so much and it's just the beginning."

"As well as this was, this was not the expected outcome. This was = better than=20 the expected outcome," says Haakonstad, who still tempers the = expectations for=20 the launch of the next space habitat=97Genesis II=97this fall. "We = shouldn't get=20 spoiled by these scenarios. We'll need to take the good with a bad, but = it does=20 set a high expectation for the next event. We're at the start of = something great=20 here."

------=_NextPart_000_00C9_01C6A80A.ADA88680-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 15 03:38:02 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6FAbpo2029506; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 03:37:52 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6FAbm9s029479; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 03:37:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 03:37:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=eTtmMxd6VwybheUfU8/NNDjwKIxS+wCVciykMJVKyDASUs27JycrhkcZgJrW3GcZ; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220067615103739116 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 04:37:39 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94083ade62de82e41ad4a6e467bccd9c344350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.92 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69667 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Heat of Solution-Hydration of Electrons in Waterfuel Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII BTW. Solution-Hydration of the thermionic emission electrons from the Tungsten and the plasma electrons and ions in Mizuno's experiments should show up as "over-unity" heat. Should also apply to Electrolysis Cells. See Also: http://www2.ijs.si/~kkocevar/skripta.pdf 3.1 Interactions between molecules 3.1.1 Coulomb interactions: Born solvation energy of an ion >Equations in here< "The Born energy of ions in water is usually quite large. For example: The change of free energy by transferring 1 mole of anions and cations from vacuum to water is (assuming a = 0.14 nm) is -1000 kJmol-1." Fred >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "With the help of the Auto-ionization of water and a few days of "preconditioning", the Joe Cell should store up megajoules of Free Energy in the ~ 250 moles of water. http://www.wwnorton.com/chemistry/concepts/chapter13/ch13_1.htm http://www.wwnorton.com/chemistry/concepts/chapter13/ch13_3.htm#1 The hydrated (OH -) ion, dissolved O2, and hydrated (H +) or (H3O +) ions along with Hydrated Electrons (e -)xH2O should "evaporate" or come off the Joe Cell as neutral or charged droplets." Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

BTW.
Solution-Hydration of the thermionic emission electrons from the Tungsten
and the plasma electrons and ions in Mizuno's experiments should show
up as "over-unity" heat.
Should also apply to Electrolysis Cells.
 
See Also:
 
http://www2.ijs.si/~kkocevar/skripta.pdf

3.1 Interactions between molecules
3.1.1 Coulomb interactions: Born solvation energy of an ion
>Equations in here<
"The Born energy of ions in water is usually quite large. For example: The
change of free energy by transferring 1 mole of anions and cations from vacuum to
water is (assuming a = 0.14 nm) is -1000 kJmol-1."
Fred
 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 
"With the help of the Auto-ionization of water and a few days of "preconditioning",
the Joe Cell should store up megajoules of Free Energy in the ~ 250 moles of
water.
 
 
 
 
The hydrated (OH -) ion, dissolved O2, and hydrated  (H +) or (H3O +) ions
along with Hydrated Electrons (e -)xH2O should "evaporate" or come off
the Joe Cell as neutral or charged droplets."
 
Fred
 
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 15 07:44:46 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6FEiPnX008681; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 07:44:25 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6FEiNqL008655; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 07:44:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 07:44:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 10:44:17 -0400 Message-Id: <8C8763448D47DBF-2340-17AC6 mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <2.2.32.20060714214922.00bd6d0c pop.freeserve.net> <8C875B17D47AEA9-918-16A9B@mblkn-m19.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <8C875B17D47AEA9-918-16A9B mblkn-m19.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Subject: Re: [Vo]: OffTopic: Male Pride and Female Prejudice Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.136 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6FEiKuX008628 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69668 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Terri So, how can you 'know'? Remote viewing?  <><><><><><> Speaking of RV, Frances: http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=11436 http://tinyurl.com/kcrbj "Remote viewing paths could lead to breakthrough event Steve Hammons July 12, 2006 "Remote viewing" could soon lead to something greater than simply using our natural "sixth sense" to gather information and intelligence as well as improving our understanding of our surroundings. One day soon, we might find that phenomena like remote viewing will lead us to a significant breakthrough that will change the world. The technique called remote viewing reportedly taps into the human unconscious and the deeper levels of energy. The physics of remote viewing allows people to reach greater awareness about many things, perhaps including other dimensions of our natural world that we normally don't pay full attention to." I vaguely recall a Beta-atm explanation of Psychic Abilities, or was I dreaming? Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 15 10:04:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6FH3x9v011278; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 10:03:59 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6FH3vSL011266; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 10:03:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 10:03:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <012901c6a830$a8b3f3a0$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 10:03:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: <9L_mUB.A.6vC.9_RuEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69669 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Take me to the Emergent C-room Status: O X-Status: >From time to time, even vortexians comment about such off-topic subjects as "emergence" and "memes" ... and it turns out that they may "resemble those remarks" ... This article in the "Register" is 'beyond funny' ... even beyond ROTFL ... and not in the normal idiosyncratic English way... at least to this reader - even down to the name of the writer. Not to mention the date. The title is: Boffins isolate 'blogging gene' http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/04/01/boffins_isolate_blogging_gene/ and for non-Anglophiles, a "boffin" is a scientific expert: http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/boffin Not to mention, the "Boffin" (of Tolkien) are a prominent hobbit family... and better yet... from the region of Yale (in the Eastfarthing ;-) Which is probably why the degree of respect, extrapolated from using "boffin," at least in some cases and for some wry Brits, may be approximated by their slang term for psychiatrist... (trick cyclist). Anyway, on to the piece-du-jour: It's Emergent, It's Adaptive - It's GMT By Meme De Chose Published 1st April, 2004 Comics have joked for ages that humans will eventually adapt to technology: growing nimbler thumbs for text messaging, or larger ears to compensate for poor signal reception. But in a remarkable breakthrough, scientists believe they have isolated the gene responsible for one specific kind of computer activity - and the race is on to commercialize it. It's an adaptive, emergent property - and is sure to ignite the Nature versus Nature debate once again. Biologists believe they have found the genetic adaptation responsible for 'weblogging'. The discovery may take the form of what Stephen Jay Gould identified as a 'spandrel' a previous adaptation for which evolution had found no previous use. Such claims have been made before, and have a dubious history. Late Victorian England was convulsed by the sensation of the "Hemel Hempstead Three". Three men - two of them brothers - had all developed extremely long legs - and all were Penny Farthing enthusiasts. The story was later proved to be a hoax. "It's all about me-me" Professor Teilhard, who holds the Poindexter Chair of Physics at the University of Santa Fe's Department of Extropian Studies, says that weblogging performs a harmless social function. "Webloggers are born not made," he said. "And shouldn't be persecuted." The activity could be a positive, group-bonding social function such as grooming, or simply a harmless way of passing the time, such as masturbation. Microsoft has employed over 400 webloggers in the hope of producing the elusive breakthrough, but now the race is on to find a commercial use for the discovery. Or any sort of use. Teilhard's breakthrough wasn't achieved overnight, and by interpreting some phenomena too literally, his team was led down several blind alleys. END of quoted text. ... and more. Worth a read to start your weekend off on a light not. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 15 11:29:06 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6FISrZs018674; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 11:28:53 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6FISq2S018658; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 11:28:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 11:28:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 14:28:48 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net Message-Id: <8C87653A5EC9C47-1318-10C82 mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.134 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69670 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Joe's To Go Status: RO X-Status: Okay, I have my SS plates from Home Despot, my nuts and rod. Plenty of distilled and deionized water. I'm only doing 16 plates since all I want is something to microwave per Jones' suggestion. I will begin assembly this weekend. I have two 12 VDC batteries and can charge them at either 12 or 24 VDC. So, Jones, which protocol should I try first? No electrolyte/no voltage? I'm your lackey! Terry (whose middle name is Joe!) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 15 12:20:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6FJK3LC012706; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 12:20:03 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6FJCDXk009548; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 12:12:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 12:12:13 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <013f01c6a842$93b30a10$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <8C87653A5EC9C47-1318-10C82 mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 12:12:11 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: <7gMfE.A.DVC.N4TuEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69671 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Joe's To Go Status: O X-Status: Ok, Terry-Joe, here-you-go: This is a suggestion for only the *precharging* without the plates being necessary (at first). I am doing this as well just now, but a little differently. Save the plates for next weekend, and if you have any preliminary results with this - everything there should work out better with the plates as your water will be activated (hopefully with nanobubbles, but quien sabe?). The charging regime should (in theory) be different (and optimized) from the usage regime (which is more like the original Brown's gas-JC idea). This idea is based on a long charging regime that will limit H2 to nearly zero, therefore it can be left unattended for a several days (weekend?) charging period. Start with a Pyrex beaker - very thin walls if possible. This is a decent hydrophobic material and will slowly pass some current in the milliamp range. Place a conductive strap on the *outside* of the beaker, for the anode. Use a rod cathode. No chance for a short. This is in case you want to use a canabalized wall transformer (from an old modem) instead of batteries, which is what I am doing, coincidentally. Start with distilled water and 12 volts and see if you can get any current draw at all. You want to get it up to about 50-100 millivolts after a few hours, but it should start out about 10 millivolts. If not, put the batteries in series and try 24 volts. If this beaker is too thick you may get nothing without even more voltage, or adding some electrolyte - but give it a few hours. Mine just started and it is drawing 15 millivolts but it is an 18 volt transformer and a very thin-walled beaker. The idea is that (only in the precharging regime) you want to achieve a slow circulation of water around the beaker-wall - and hopefull this is where the nanobubbles will form. Mark the initial water level with a piece of tape. Place another control beaker next to to the charging beaker and mark it also. If all goes well, the water level in the charging beaker should be higher at the end of two days than in the control (both will loose water to evaporation and it is unwise to close the active beaker in case the conductivity should rise) BTW ... and to show how authoritative this idea is - it all came from a solitary walk at a deserted Point Reyes shoreline, where a sea lion was following me, but 100 meters out - from outside the breakers. He seemed to be saying: "us sea mammals have known about nanobubbles for a long time" (they don't use good grammar ;-) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 15 12:40:02 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6FJdnbt027798; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 12:39:49 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6FJdlnY027767; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 12:39:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 12:39:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <015701c6a846$6e1c18b0$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <8C87653A5EC9C47-1318-10C82 mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> <013f01c6a842$93b30a10$6401a8c0@NuDell> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 12:39:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: <55xuTD.A.qxG.DSUuEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69672 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Re: Joe's To Go Status: O X-Status: Terry - oops you know where to substitute amps for volts in the previously garbbled message, being the good EE From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 15 13:42:20 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6FKg5FK032657; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 13:42:05 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6FKg3ts032628; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 13:42:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 13:42:03 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 16:41:55 -0400 Message-Id: <8C876663EAA3B5F-2B00-1BF41 mblkn-m17.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <8C87653A5EC9C47-1318-10C82 mblkn-m16.sysops.aol.com> <013f01c6a842$93b30a10$6401a8c0@NuDell> <015701c6a846$6e1c18b0$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <015701c6a846$6e1c18b0$6401a8c0 NuDell> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Re: Joe's To Go Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.135 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6FKg0Yh032577 Resent-Message-ID: <-FRD6D.A.v9H.ZMVuEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69673 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: yeah, caught that -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene To: vortex-l eskimo.com Sent: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 12:39:46 -0700 Subject: [Vo]: Re: Re: Joe's To Go Terry - oops you know where to substitute amps for volts in the previously garbbled message, being the good EE   From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 15 14:45:43 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6FLjSTv004675; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 14:45:28 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6FLjQlN004648; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 14:45:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 14:45:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=piSS0E7SbGcenxXUAwIkWukdbT6KBfLuXprhrxobT48I+CDmsBQQZUIQYddu4Vfc; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006761521451933 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]: Re: Joe's To Go Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 15:45:19 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940537482cf4daa375480899e713ef9b783350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.120.111 Resent-Message-ID: <22GYpB.A.eIB.2HWuEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69674 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In the FWIW Dept. Jones' "Leyden Jar" is two capacitors in series, one the Pyrex to water layer with a Capacitance of about k *eo* area/thickness and a resistance in the Gigohms where more than 99%of the voltage drop occurs. The series water inner glass wall-to-cathode cylindrical capacitance is C = 2(pi)k*eo/[ln R-glass/R-cathode] times water height The only plausible explanation for a current is a Displacement Current I = C * dV/dt due to Polarization effects(polywater?) in the water causing a capacitance since V isn't changing. :-) Interesting stuff. Fred > [Original Message] > From: Jones Beene > > Ok, Terry-Joe, here-you-go: > > This is a suggestion for only the *precharging* without the plates > being necessary (at first). I am doing this as well just now, but > a little differently. > > Save the plates for next weekend, and if you have any preliminary > results with this - everything there should work out better with > the plates as your water will be activated (hopefully with > nanobubbles, but quien sabe?). > > The charging regime should (in theory) be different (and > optimized) from the usage regime (which is more like the original > Brown's gas-JC idea). > > This idea is based on a long charging regime that will limit H2 to > nearly zero, therefore it can be left unattended for a several > days (weekend?) charging period. > > Start with a Pyrex beaker - very thin walls if possible. This is a > decent hydrophobic material and will slowly pass some current in > the milliamp range. > > Place a conductive strap on the *outside* of the beaker, for the > anode. Use a rod cathode. No chance for a short. This is in case > you want to use a canabalized wall transformer (from an old modem) > instead of batteries, which is what I am doing, coincidentally. > > Start with distilled water and 12 volts and see if you can get any > current draw at all. You want to get it up to about 50-100 > millivolts after a few hours, but it should start out about 10 > millivolts. If not, put the batteries in series and try 24 volts. > If this beaker is too thick you may get nothing without even more > voltage, or adding some electrolyte - but give it a few hours. > Mine just started and it is drawing 15 millivolts but it is an 18 > volt transformer and a very thin-walled beaker. > > The idea is that (only in the precharging regime) you want to > achieve a slow circulation of water around the beaker-wall - and > hopefull this is where the nanobubbles will form. Mark the initial > water level with a piece of tape. Place another control beaker > next to to the charging beaker and mark it also. If all goes well, > the water level in the charging beaker should be higher at the end > of two days than in the control (both will loose water to > evaporation and it is unwise to close the active beaker in case > the conductivity should rise) > > BTW ... and to show how authoritative this idea is - it all came > from a solitary walk at a deserted Point Reyes shoreline, where a > sea lion was following me, but 100 meters out - from outside the > breakers. He seemed to be saying: "us sea mammals have known about > nanobubbles for a long time" (they don't use good grammar ;-) > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 15 14:49:21 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6FLn5xI007006; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 14:49:09 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6FLn44O006994; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 14:49:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 14:49:04 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <017901c6a858$7d7beda0$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 14:49:03 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69675 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Joe's To Go Status: O X-Status: Terry - After not getting enough current (stopped almost); and then reading-up a bit more on hydrophobic surfaces - I am starting over again - this time using a Teflon-coated saucier, as anode. Had to go with a 6 volt block transformer - and placed the pot on top of a large speaker magnet - and have noticeable water circulation but few bubbles. At lease - if nothing else, I will know how to make some fully-charged gravy next time ;-) Dinner guest will call it "dynamite." If anything changes, I will post directly to you to avoid taking up bandwidth on what could be little more than a cooking lesson ... Emeril sez: "BAM! kick it up a notch..." Jones From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 15 18:22:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6G1MdTN006461; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 18:22:39 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6G1MbCZ006439; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 18:22:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 18:22:36 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 21:22:30 -0400 Message-Id: <8C8768D7156DE86-23F4-5D51 mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <017901c6a858$7d7beda0$6401a8c0 NuDell> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <017901c6a858$7d7beda0$6401a8c0 NuDell> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.138 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6G1MZJm006417 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69676 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Joe's To Go Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene Dinner guest will call it "dynamite." If anything changes, I will post directly to you to avoid taking up bandwidth on what could be little more than a cooking lesson ...  <><><><><> No, please, let's keep it on the list. Bloody list hasn't seen any experimentation in ages. Patent US6743467 sez: "BACKGROUND ART Hydrophobic coatings are water-proof coatings which have immediate uses in reducing icing and fouling of other surface. Such coatings can also render protected surfaces resistant to attachment by water soluble electrolytes such as acids and alkalies, and by microorganisms. In the past, surfaces have been protected against encrustation, corrosion, icing and fouling by means of coatings containing polymer films, hydrophobic solid fillers and hydrophobic liquids. One disadvantage of the use of such coatings is that they do not achieve multi-purpose protection since they are not generally versatile enough to protect against damage from a variety of causes. It is well understood that the wettability of various materials is dependent on both the physical and chemical heterogeneity of the material. The notion of using the contact angle .theta. made by a droplet of liquid on a surface of a solid substrate as a quantitative measure of the wetting ability of the particular solid has also long been well understood. If the liquid spreads completely across the surface and forms a film, the contact angle .theta. is 0.degree.. If there is any degree of beading of the liquid on the surface of the substrate, the surface is considered to be non-wetting. For water, the substrate surface is usually considered to be hydrophobic if the contact angle is greater than 90.degree.. Examples of materials on which liquid droplets have high contact angles include water on paraffin, in which there is a contact angle of about 107.degree.. Many applications require a hydrophobic coating with a high contact angle of at least 150.degree., and preferably at least 165.degree.. A "gel" is a substance that contains a continuous solid skeleton enclosing a continuous liquid phase. The liquid prevents the solid from collapsing, and the solid prevents the liquid from escaping. The solid skeleton can be formed by linking colloidal particles together. The present inventors have now developed methods for producing materials which, when coated on a surface, render that surface hydrophobic. " What is meant by 'contact angle'? Is this the slope of the water bead at the surface of the hydrophobic material? (Note: these inventors are Aussies. One is named Jones.) Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 15 18:43:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6G1hgna019123; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 18:43:42 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6G1hbfF019091; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 18:43:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 18:43:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=IwBBoeo5VTB6jwveyem85B1W2HP5Z2T9s8U8Sg65/Av7d2YRJJnVXumR7isCross; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006701614331851 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 19:43:31 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9407edb5e40b0d5c4e95122938389c05118350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.165.119 Resent-Message-ID: <9NJ-b.A.LqE.JnZuEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69677 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Heat of Solution-Hydration of Electrons in Waterfuel Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII The way I see the overall system, the pre-conditioning builds up large quantities of hydrated (OH-) and (H +) or (H3O +) ions that have a "molecular weight" of over 108 with 4 to 6 attached H2O hydration molecules. In fact enough hydration to make the water "syrupy" possibly due to the easier evaporation of the single water molecules. The intake stroke of the Otto or Diesel ICE draws the hydrated ions of both Plus and Minus charge in "Nanoclusters" along with some OH and H "Brown's Gas" (as a pilot fuel) into the cylinder where the work of compression is decreased by the amount of heat required to re-vaporize the "Nanoclusters" which allows energetic recombination of ( H+) and (OH -) to form H2O. Fred <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< See Also: http://www2.ijs.si/~kkocevar/skripta.pdf 3.1 Interactions between molecules 3.1.1 Coulomb interactions: Born solvation energy of an ion >Equations in here< "The Born energy of ions in water is usually quite large. For example: The change of free energy by transferring 1 mole of anions and cations from vacuum to water is (assuming a = 0.14 nm) is -1000 kJmol-1." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "With the help of the Auto-ionization of water and a few days of "preconditioning", the Joe Cell should store up megajoules of Free Energy in the ~ 250 moles of water. http://www.wwnorton.com/chemistry/concepts/chapter13/ch13_1.htm http://www.wwnorton.com/chemistry/concepts/chapter13/ch13_3.htm#1 The hydrated (OH -) ion, dissolved O2, and hydrated (H +) or (H3O +) ions along with Hydrated Electrons (e -)xH2O should "evaporate" or come off the Joe Cell as neutral or charged droplets." <30> ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

 
The way I see the overall system, the pre-conditioning builds up large quantities
of hydrated (OH-) and (H +) or (H3O +) ions that have a "molecular weight"
of over 108 with 4 to 6 attached H2O hydration molecules.
In fact enough hydration to make the water "syrupy" possibly due to the easier evaporation
of the single water molecules.
 
The intake stroke of the Otto or Diesel ICE draws the hydrated ions of both
Plus and Minus charge in  "Nanoclusters" along with some OH and H "Brown's Gas"
(as a pilot fuel)  into the cylinder where the  work of compression is decreased
by the amount of heat required to re-vaporize the "Nanoclusters" which allows energetic
recombination of ( H+) and (OH -) to form H2O.
 
Fred
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
See Also:
 
 
3.1 Interactions between molecules
3.1.1 Coulomb interactions: Born solvation energy of an ion
>Equations in here<
"The Born energy of ions in water is usually quite large. For example: The
change of free energy by transferring 1 mole of anions and cations from vacuum to
water is (assuming a = 0.14 nm) is -1000 kJmol-1."
 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 
"With the help of the Auto-ionization of water and a few days of "preconditioning",
the Joe Cell should store up megajoules of Free Energy in the ~ 250 moles of
water.
 
 
 
 
The hydrated (OH -) ion, dissolved O2, and hydrated (H +) or (H3O +) ions
along with Hydrated Electrons (e -)xH2O should "evaporate" or come off
the Joe Cell as neutral or charged droplets."
 
 

                                                                                                                      <30>

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 15 19:08:33 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6G28Njo031474; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 19:08:24 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6G28Nnc031461; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 19:08:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 19:08:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <002201c6a87c$b68aab30$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <017901c6a858$7d7beda0$6401a8c0 NuDell> <8C8768D7156DE86-23F4-5D51@mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 19:08:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69678 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Joe's To Go Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: > Patent US6743467 sez: [snip] > (Note: these inventors are Aussies. One is named Jones.) Along with about half of Wales, but hey ... what's wrong with a bit of inbreeding? BTW, a small Teflon-coated cooking pot, placed over a large speaker magnet seems to be working, as there is a slight expansion of the water level and no electrolysis gases being released. I suppose this is what one wants. The circulation caused by the magnet might be an important feature ... or not. Expansion means lower density - and ergo: possible nanobubbles, right? No evidence of an increase in viscosity yet. We will see. Jones Are you underway, Terry-Joe? BTW, got the magnet idea from one of the homebrew JC sites, but no one else seems to be doing it. I suspect the reason is - the water movement is not helpful without a large area of strongly hydrophobic surface for the water to circulate against. Stainless steel is probably only mildly hydrophobic. If Fred is right about the "Born Energy" ... shall we call this pretreatment the "born-again process" .... From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 15 20:28:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6G3SXsH007983; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 20:28:33 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6G3SV8G007975; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 20:28:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 20:28:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Nanobubbles and Free-energy Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 13:28:28 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <18cjb2h5mhm4gs2g7vqs0tcir1knnf2a5i 4ax.com> References: <007301c6a5cb$b0f13620$6401a8c0 NuDell> In-Reply-To: <007301c6a5cb$b0f13620$6401a8c0 NuDell> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta03ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.66.196] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Sun, 16 Jul 2006 03:28:27 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6G3STOj007956 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69679 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Jones Beene's message of Wed, 12 Jul 2006 08:56:08 -0700: Hi, [snip] >Now try to transfer the information you know about the Casimir >force to the JoeCell, and consider the possibility that (aside >from anything else) **nanobubbles** are the major "fuel" being >created. That and a small amount of hydrogen. > >What did I say? bubbles as fuel ?? how crazy is that??? [snip] >shrinking them ... BUT is the overall system then able to recover >more energy, during expansion, then was applied initially --- that >would be courtesy of aether and the Casimir force? IOW can the >bulk of the "fuel".perhaps, be nothing more complicated than very >tiny bubbles under intense compression ! After all Boyle's law is >linear but the Casimir is a fourth-power pressurization- so there >an arguable theoretical basis for all of this. [snip] Some years back, I read a paper by Boyer written sometime in the 80's I think wherein he showed that the Casimir force causes a sphere to expand, not contract (apparently it depends on the shape of the wall). However a quick google search turned this up: http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0408184 Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 15 20:46:21 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6G3kBE1016389; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 20:46:12 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6G3kAK2016368; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 20:46:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 20:46:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: "Hoyt A. Stearns jr." To: Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 20:46:07 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 In-Reply-To: <8C874A9AC50A169-554-1149 mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69680 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: [Vo]: Casimir effect Status: O X-Status: I would suggest Dewey B. Larson's Reciprocal system would be a profitable theory to investigate regarding the Casimir effect and other behaviors of systems of size about 45 nm. It is a fundamental part of the Reciprocal System that length is quantized into units of 45.6 nm (unit length in the theory). At that length, an inversion takes place. Gravity repels below that, and the "expansion of the universe, (we'll call it the "scalar outward motion" or just "progression") attracts instead of vice-versa, in other words gravity attracts to unit length, not zero length. It is the progression balanced with gravity that account for chemical bonding and bond length. The progression is seen as a constant 15 femto G repulsive force at the macro level, and accounts for the galaxies moving away from each other and why stars won't approach closer than about 4 light years, and why globular clusters are stable spheres. I can see that the Casimir force is effective on the order of unit length. See http://www.rsystem.org http://www.rstheory.com Hoyt Stearns Jr. Scottsdale, Arizona US http://members.cox.net/hoyt-stearns From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 15 23:19:08 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6G6IwFE013484; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 23:18:58 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6G6ItWS013441; Sat, 15 Jul 2006 23:18:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 23:18:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <44B9DA20.1030307 usfamily.net> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 01:18:08 -0500 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: [Vo]: Casimir effect References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <9MXZuC.A.9RD.PpduEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69681 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hoyt A. Stearns jr. wrote: >I would suggest Dewey B. Larson's Reciprocal system would be a profitable theory to investigate regarding the Casimir effect and other behaviors of systems of size about 45 nm. > > >The progression is seen as a constant 15 femto G repulsive force at the macro level, and accounts for the galaxies moving away fromeach other and why stars won't approach closer than about 4 light years, and why globular clusters are stable spheres. > I'm wondering what keeps stars from getting any closer to each other? --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 16 00:57:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6G7vi8A005764; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 00:57:44 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6G7vftT005724; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 00:57:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 00:57:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=slkYLrBatZ8SkqSM/sRBNfaP2YjaHUeSBFJUsk/kf3CpeOxF9r+7CtvHej41qbHjI4ii1VTXo0yPlNUXyNU9aFSdgTnoaqfJxYWiubShswHAz+DMV5Jmz5bcEWprJhi32RrfP/Ro3QWoP+E0XIMHBVXTe9y5cLLHF2e39R9g990= Message-ID: Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 03:57:40 -0400 From: "john herman" To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_44196_464155.1153036660134" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69682 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Can anyone offer a Universal Resource Locator "URL of the topic of """Joe Cell" " Status: O X-Status: ------=_Part_44196_464155.1153036660134 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Will any vo please let us knoe a URL ....or other... that defines and or > described the """Joe Cell"" ..... AND: Why is it called such? Please JH ------=_Part_44196_464155.1153036660134 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline

Will any vo please let us knoe a URL ....or other... that defines  and or described  the """Joe Cell"" .....
 
 
     AND:  Why is it called such? 
 
         Please
 
         JH

 

------=_Part_44196_464155.1153036660134-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 16 05:22:56 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6GCMef2027047; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 05:22:40 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6GCMb36027016; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 05:22:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 05:22:36 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-CVTV-Spamfilter: Scanned X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Virus-Scanned: by McAfee Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <001001c6a8d2$7e28cf00$7a027841 xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: References: Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 07:22:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C6A8A8.947E6000" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: <1uk2QB.A.3lG.M-iuEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69683 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Can anyone offer a Universal Resource Locator "URL of the topic of """Joe Cell" " Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C6A8A8.947E6000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Howdy john, This will get ya started if not blown plum to Tijuana, Richard http://pesn.com/2006/04/27/9600265_Make_Run_Joe_Cell/ ----- Original Message -----=20 From: john herman=20 To: vortex-l eskimo.com=20 Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 2:57 AM Subject: [Vo]: Can anyone offer a Universal Resource Locator "URL of = the topic of """Joe Cell" " Will any vo please let us knoe a URL ....or other... that defines = and or described the """Joe Cell"" .....=20 AND: Why is it called such? =20 Please JH =20 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C6A8A8.947E6000 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
Howdy john,
This will get ya started if not blown = plum to=20 Tijuana,
Richard
http://pes= n.com/2006/04/27/9600265_Make_Run_Joe_Cell/
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 john herman=20
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 = 2:57 AM
Subject: [Vo]: Can anyone offer = a=20 Universal Resource Locator "URL of the topic of """Joe Cell" "



Will=20 any vo please let us knoe a URL ....or other... that defines  = and or=20 described  the """Joe Cell"" .....
 
 
     AND:  Why is it called such?  =
 
         Please
 
        =20 JH

 

------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C6A8A8.947E6000-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 16 06:36:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6GDaBkY028877; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 06:36:12 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6GDa6Il028801; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 06:36:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 06:36:06 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: "Hoyt A. Stearns jr." To: Subject: RE: [Vo]: [Vo]: Casimir effect Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 06:36:02 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 In-Reply-To: <44B9DA20.1030307 usfamily.net> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69684 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, If the gravitational attraction between two objects is less than the 15 Femto G expansion of the universe repulsion, then they are moving away from each other, however a star can still be attracted to the aggregate of other stars, e.g. a galaxy. Dr. Ron Satz wrote the article below explaining it in detail. The stars in an aggretate act as if they were molecules in a liquid. See: http://www.reciprocalsystem.com/rs/satz/cluster.htm http://www.reciprocalsystem.com/rs/cwkvk/gravlim.htm Hoyt Stearns Scottsdale, Arizona US http://members.cox.net/hoyt-stearns -----Original Message----- From: thomas malloy [mailto:temalloy usfamily.net] Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 11:18 PM To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: [Vo]: Casimir effect I'm wondering what keeps stars from getting any closer to each other? --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 16 07:39:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6GEdlL9016909; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 07:39:47 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6GEdjjp016890; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 07:39:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 07:39:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <002601c6a8e5$adc4a280$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 07:39:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69685 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: BAM Status: O X-Status: Well, more like a big POOF. But it was an interesting first test of water from the Emerilized-JoeCell. Kitchen electro-chemistry at its finest ! and a bare-bones experiment costing essentially zero, but it will certainly lead further. Perhaps some school-kid will develop this to the limit (which, of course, would be the microwave-lawn-mower). The electro-treated water after an overnight charge - with no more than one watt per hour added to a half-liter of water - is becoming moderately "active." Wonder if that will continue. An eye-dropper full, placed in a shot-glass in the microwave gave me quite a start when it exploded rather violently after only ~3 seconds. Untreated water will also (sometimes) violently explode like this (usually it just boils instead of flashes), but it takes about 4-5 seconds of irradiation. Also tested 3% HOOH - and that actually takes longer than tap water - not less time - to boil, and it never flashes - so the speeding-up effect is apparently not related to peroxide. Really meaningless experiment on one level - as this water will not likely power an engine, and it will not "ignite" with a match - as in the Oz videos, and there is no shock from touching it. ... but OTOH this was a 10 hour pretreatment at only one watt added per hour, and tommorrow morning it will be 34 hours, so we will see if it gets more active. BTW Greg Watson has set up a Y! forum dedicated to hydronium. He has some strange ideas on this, but I am reserving judgment until he publishes his results. If treating water electrically (but without full electrolysis) works to make it active - which cannot happen according to mainstream science - then it will require some 'outside-the-box' thinking. Greg Watson may be able to do that as well as any of us. He mentions this gimmick-item today - coincidentally (not sold by him): http://hiddencures.com/ionizer.htm Which has the identical "power supply" that I am using. Ha! Really sophisticated folks ! In the USA these things are normally tossed out in the garbage. Amazing what people will pay - if you add a bogus health claim to something. BTW if you want to try this kind of kind of silly thing (or supervise your inquisitive child/grandchild) - my "secret" cathode is the needle from a hand-pump used for inflating basketballs. I am trying to avoid any hydrogen gas being formed on the cathode, so was looking for the minimum surface area - and also the needle could possibly allow air to enter. Frank Grimer thinks that nanobubbles could be "filled" with aether - not air, but either way the needle seems to work. BAM - that was quite a flash actually. Makes me wish I had one of those microwave powered lawn-mowers which we talked about a few years ago - available to test with the longer-treated water tommorrow... Funny how that half-baked idea never made it to prime-time. But then again, they probably did not know about Emerilized-water ;-) Jones From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 16 07:42:43 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6GEgXoA018142; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 07:42:34 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6GEgWLk018122; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 07:42:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 07:42:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 10:42:21 -0400 Message-Id: <8C876FD2DB55E0E-554-8F0B mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <017901c6a858$7d7beda0$6401a8c0 NuDell> <8C8768D7156DE86-23F4-5D51@mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> <002201c6a87c$b68aab30$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <002201c6a87c$b68aab30$6401a8c0 NuDell> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.133 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6GEgVT4018099 Resent-Message-ID: <-rb0GC.A.CbE.YBluEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69686 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Joe's To Go Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene JB: Along with about half of Wales, but hey ... what's wrong with a bit of inbreeding?  TB: What choice do you have on an island?   JB: BTW, a small Teflon-coated cooking pot, placed over a large speaker magnet seems to be working, as there is a slight expansion of the water level and no electrolysis gases being released.    I suppose this is what one wants. The circulation caused by the magnet might be an important feature ... or not.    Expansion means lower density - and ergo: possible nanobubbles, right? No evidence of an increase in viscosity yet. We will see.  TB: You have to flying sauciers? Or have you abandoned the control?   JB: Are you underway, Terry-Joe?  TB: Yes, but what's the point of replicating your work if that's all that is needed to make the fuel? Maybe I should pursue another approach. I have an idea. Here's my approach. I gathered the materials: http://www.geocities.com/terry1094/Materials.JPG Note that I plan to use teflon tape to insulate the threaded rods from the plates. I am using a 3M adhesive to assemble the plates. The adhesive comes in a roll and is similar to double-sided adhesive foam. I attach conductors to one side of the adhesive (two conductors per plate for reliability . . . color-coded, BTW): http://www.geocities.com/terry1094/Connection.JPG I attach adhesive only (no conductor) to the other side of the next plate: http://www.geocities.com/terry1094/Adhesive.JPG You can see that the adhesive is clear when the red backing is removed; but, it maintains its structure keeping the plates electrically separated. I then carefully align the plates and press and voila! http://www.geocities.com/terry1094/Assembly.JPG With this assembly, I can test Denny Klein's idea by applying voltage only to the outside plates. Or I can apply any voltage to any and all plates or no voltage to any plate. I should finish today. Whaddya think? Got an idea for a new protocol? Or should I try Denny Klein's approach of only electrolyzing with the outside plates? http://hytechapps.com/ I wouldn't know how to test if the resulting Aquygen gas was anything other than H2 + O2, however. Suggestions anyone? Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 16 07:48:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6GEmSwT020531; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 07:48:29 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6GEmQgZ020512; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 07:48:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 07:48:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 10:48:19 -0400 Message-Id: <8C876FE03510D7E-554-8F3B mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <017901c6a858$7d7beda0$6401a8c0 NuDell> <8C8768D7156DE86-23F4-5D51@mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> <002201c6a87c$b68aab30$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C876FD2DB55E0E-554-8F0B@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <8C876FD2DB55E0E-554-8F0B mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Joe's To Go Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.133 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6GEmP01020492 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69687 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: TB: You have to flying sauciers? Or have you abandoned the control?  That should read "two flying sauciers". Really ruins the pun :-( From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 16 08:14:46 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6GFEUUo000728; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 08:14:31 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6GFEQ0Q000681; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 08:14:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 08:14:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <005101c6a8ea$859c3b60$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <017901c6a858$7d7beda0$6401a8c0 NuDell> <8C8768D7156DE86-23F4-5D51@mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> <002201c6a87c$b68aab30$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C876FD2DB55E0E-554-8F0B@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 08:14:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69688 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Joe's To Go Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: > Whaddya think? Got an idea for a new protocol? Or should I try > Denny Klein's approach of only electrolyzing with the outside > plates? > http://hytechapps.com/ Well one thing to do, once you get it assembled - is to try untreated water against treated. Another possibility - is to try DC against Pulsed-DC against AC. Then there is the high voltage (Mizuno-type) vs. low voltage Faradaic. The problem as always - in gauging the efficiency for H2 generation is in measuring the volume of the gas produced as well as its BTU content. How do you plan to do that? Jones From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 16 08:42:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6GFg9L5019433; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 08:42:13 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6GFg7VF019416; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 08:42:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 08:42:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=iqA2RFiB22o2b8T4N99QUFp99uFX8O8I9sl3P2wsQDJ61OiLsAfX4orw11mN/Zp+; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220067016154147503 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 09:41:47 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940fac1a11dbcc930dcdb333025933f66d3350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.67 Resent-Message-ID: <-iwxeD.A.NvE.P5luEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69689 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: BAM Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Jones Beene wrote. > > BAM - that was quite a flash actually. > Makes me wish I had one of those microwave powered lawn-mowers > which we talked about a few years ago - available to test with > the longer-treated water tomorrow... > Would you settle for the Saito FA-56 4-cycle Model airplane engine I have brand new in the box that is yours for the S&H cost? You can probably use a drill-motor to crank it. Or would you want the companion Evolution 2-cycle 0.392 cubic inch unit? Send me an Email if you're interested. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

 
Jones Beene wrote.
>
> BAM - that was quite a flash actually.
> Makes me wish I had one of those microwave powered lawn-mowers
> which we talked about a few years ago - available to test with
> the longer-treated water tomorrow...
>
Would you settle for the Saito FA-56  4-cycle Model airplane engine I have
brand new in the box that is yours for the S&H cost?
 
You can probably use a drill-motor to crank it.
 
Or would you want the companion Evolution 2-cycle 0.392 cubic inch unit?
 
Send me an Email if you're interested.
 
Fred
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 16 08:51:33 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6GFpIK3022880; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 08:51:18 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6GFpGKI022858; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 08:51:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 08:51:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 11:50:45 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: [Vo]: [Vo]: Casimir effect In-reply-to: To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69690 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The thought police might arrest me for thinking this: What appears as repulsion may actually be self-attraction. Harry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 16 09:08:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6GG8NaK029739; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 09:08:23 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6GG8Le8029726; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 09:08:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 09:08:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 12:08:19 -0400 Message-Id: <8C877093043DAAE-554-9114 mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <017901c6a858$7d7beda0$6401a8c0 NuDell> <8C8768D7156DE86-23F4-5D51@mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> <002201c6a87c$b68aab30$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C876FD2DB55E0E-554-8F0B@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> <005101c6a8ea$859c3b60$6401a8c0@NuDell> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <005101c6a8ea$859c3b60$6401a8c0 NuDell> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Joe's To Go Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.133 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6GG8KjA029709 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69691 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene The problem as always - in gauging the efficiency for H2 generation is in measuring the volume of the gas produced as well as its BTU content. How do you plan to do that?  <><><><><><> Well, that's why I said: "I wouldn't know how to test if the resulting Aquygen gas was anything other than H2 + O2, however. Suggestions anyone?" :-) Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 16 09:11:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6GGBfX4031546; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 09:11:41 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6GGBclB031524; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 09:11:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 09:11:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 12:11:30 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net Message-Id: <8C87709A1E54E18-554-911F mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.133 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <07w3jC.A.XsH.5UmuEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69692 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Casimir effect Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Harry Veeder The thought police might arrest me for thinking this: What appears as repulsion may actually be self-attraction. <><><><><> According to the standard inflationary theory, 70% of the cosmos is composed of negative energy which is repulsive. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 16 10:34:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6GHYmbb030469; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 10:34:48 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6GHYj9n030449; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 10:34:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 10:34:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <44BA777C.1000304 usfamily.net> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 12:29:32 -0500 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Joe's To Go References: <017901c6a858$7d7beda0$6401a8c0 NuDell> <8C8768D7156DE86-23F4-5D51@mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> <002201c6a87c$b68aab30$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C876FD2DB55E0E-554-8F0B@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C876FD2DB55E0E-554-8F0B mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69693 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: hohlrauml6d netscape.net wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jones Beene > > > Whaddya think? Got an idea for a new protocol? Or should I try Denny > Klein's approach of only electrolyzing with the outside plates? > > http://hytechapps.com/ > Looks like a Brown's Gas generator to me. --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 16 10:57:04 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6GHumK1004746; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 10:56:49 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6GHulbO004719; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 10:56:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 10:56:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 13:56:41 -0400 Message-Id: <8C8771854070493-152C-E158 mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <017901c6a858$7d7beda0$6401a8c0 NuDell> <8C8768D7156DE86-23F4-5D51@mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> <002201c6a87c$b68aab30$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C876FD2DB55E0E-554-8F0B@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> <44BA777C.1000304@usfamily.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <44BA777C.1000304 usfamily.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Joe's To Go Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.130 X-Spam-Flag: NO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6GHujpS004697 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69694 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: thomas malloy   Looks like a Brown's Gas generator to me.  <><><><><><> That's what I initially thought until Fred Sparber pointed out that many of the parallel plates within the electrolyzer are not connected to either the anode nor the cathode. This implies something else might be ahappenin'. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 16 10:59:50 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6GHxeCm006124; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 10:59:40 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6GHxcAX006105; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 10:59:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 10:59:38 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Y4H/AYQWjSx2/flo7zTaPU4b6FUV1TxPfGM3EMOX/IWjLt1kmnDy4JKgPRTjEUwd; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220067016175925822 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 11:59:25 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94095b51a3e6bfc13449fcb9bb32924414b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.184 Resent-Message-ID: <313UzD.A.RfB.K6nuEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69695 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Why Waterfuel wants to go BAM Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII The spontaneous Auto-ionization of water H2O <---> H+ + OH- or 2 H2O <---> H3O+ + OH- releases 80 kJ per mole of ions formed (about ions 2 per billion at room temp) : http://chimge.unil.ch/En/ph/1ph4.htm The Gibbs Free Energy "hurdle" is illustrated in Section 4 of the Gibbs Free Energy Tutorial of this URL: http://www.wwnorton.com/chemistry/overview/ch13.htm#hydration Add these exotherms to the 1,000 kJ/mole of exothermic solvation-hydration of Ions and Electrons in water bred by the proper conditioning of the water to create the enormous quantities of dissolved-hydrated Ions and Electrons in about 250 moles of water in the Joe Cell, (a few hours/days at milliampere currents plus a small "overnight bias voltage/current" to offset self recombination) then adding enough excitation/heat to de-hydrate them so tat they can recombine and...BAM. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

The spontaneous Auto-ionization of water H2O <---> H+ + OH-
or 2 H2O <---> H3O+  +  OH- releases 80 kJ per mole of ions
formed (about ions 2 per billion at room temp) :
 
 
The Gibbs Free Energy "hurdle" is illustrated in Section 4 of the
Gibbs Free Energy Tutorial of this URL:
 
 
Add these exotherms to the 1,000 kJ/mole of exothermic solvation-hydration
of Ions and Electrons in water bred by the proper conditioning of the water to create
the enormous quantities of dissolved-hydrated Ions and Electrons in about
250 moles of water in the Joe Cell, (a few hours/days at milliampere currents plus a small
"overnight bias voltage/current"  to offset self recombination) then adding enough
excitation/heat to de-hydrate them so tat they can recombine and...BAM.
 
Fred
 
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 16 11:12:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6GICCKC011336; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 11:12:13 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6GICCRN011319; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 11:12:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 11:12:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 14:12:11 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Casimir effect In-reply-to: <8C87709A1E54E18-554-911F mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: <6MCy8B.A.zwC.7FouEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69696 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: hohlrauml6d netscape.net wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Harry Veeder > > The thought police might arrest me for thinking this: > What appears as repulsion may actually be self-attraction. > > <><><><><> > > According to the standard inflationary theory, 70% of the cosmos is > composed of negative energy which is repulsive. > > Terry > Vanity <--> negative energy. Harry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 16 13:52:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6GKq0wh013835; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 13:52:00 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6GKpwfK013813; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 13:51:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 13:51:58 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=DfIsXgzGZiVC7ocNPmkLtwqqgJRNP39El1LH3DqVZrUzbOhUOYK0LggQTRGRqfs+2Jk8ls62pUs4UsIKATA0jKckVroKpZKeEgUYZBmWs/vdbWPXBTPezNlrNJ+iA9WqKhJihUMMbvucPv2rRxahSS9X8MfTKX890NnMN/Qxm/k= Message-ID: Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 16:51:58 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_64920_7179277.1153083118609" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69697 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Address Change Status: O X-Status: ------=_Part_64920_7179277.1153083118609 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Netscape (AOL) has gotten painfully slow and less reliable. So, I'll be posting from here. Just FYI, Terry ------=_Part_64920_7179277.1153083118609 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
Netscape (AOL) has gotten painfully slow and less reliable.  So, I'll be posting from here.
 
Just FYI,
 
Terry
------=_Part_64920_7179277.1153083118609-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 16 18:08:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6H18Ws4002058; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:08:32 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6H18RPQ002009; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:08:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:08:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <058d01c6a93d$7ffd1730$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: Subject: Re: [Vo]: Casimir effect Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:08:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69698 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Hoyt Stearns > It is a fundamental part of the Reciprocal System that length is > quantized > into units of 45.6 nm (unit length in the theory). Have we discussed this before - this connection of Larson to BLP and Mills' hydrino? Also - it is half the Rydberg wavelength - undoubtedly Robin has mentioned it - but does Larson attempt to integrate it into the earlier work, or is he the originator and Mills the "borrower" (just for the record)? In the hydrino theory, the first-step of "shrinkage" (redundant ground state) at 27.2 eV has the associated wavelength of 45.6 nm. Also FWIW - as mentioned recently, that is the limit of where photolithography is headed in 2006. Intel is already there no doubt. Should be an exciting second half of the year 2006 - on many fronts ! From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 16 18:23:33 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6H1NLuZ008501; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:23:21 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6H1NJI1008484; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:23:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:23:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=DCo/tUXak2Zz0FL9ZlqAXeKZYtuUEOrG4YipGPskRXQRDX6pwVh21zdVLHSVdJ80; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200671171232467 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 19:23:02 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9406a7eec93840637bc12ed92646af8b3c3350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.111 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69699 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Tutorials and Gibbs Free Energy Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII http://www.chemistrycoach.com/tutorials-7.htm http://members.aol.com/profchm/gibbs.html High School level is high enough for me. If any cars are running solely on Joe Cells/Waterfuel, there has to be something really fantastic going on. Fred >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The spontaneous Auto-ionization of water H2O <---> H+ + OH- or 2 H2O <---> H3O+ + OH- releases 80 kJ per mole of ions formed (about ions 2 per billion at room temp) Add these exotherms to the 1,000 kJ/mole of exothermic solvation-hydration of Ions and Electrons in water bred by the proper conditioning of the water to create the enormous quantities of dissolved-hydrated Ions and Electrons in about 250 moles of water in the Joe Cell, (a few hours/days at milliampere currents plus a small "overnight bias voltage/current" to offset self recombination) then adding enough excitation/heat to de-hydrate them so tat they can recombine and...BAM. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

 
 
High School level is high enough for me. 
 
If any cars are running solely on Joe Cells/Waterfuel, there has to
be something really fantastic going on.
 
Fred
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The spontaneous Auto-ionization of water H2O <---> H+ + OH-
or 2 H2O <---> H3O+  +  OH- releases 80 kJ per mole of ions
formed (about ions 2 per billion at room temp) 
 
Add these exotherms to the 1,000 kJ/mole of exothermic solvation-hydration
of Ions and Electrons in water bred by the proper conditioning of the water to create
the enormous quantities of dissolved-hydrated Ions and Electrons in about
250 moles of water in the Joe Cell, (a few hours/days at milliampere currents plus a small
"overnight bias voltage/current"  to offset self recombination) then adding enough
excitation/heat to de-hydrate them so tat they can recombine and...BAM.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 
 
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 16 22:33:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6H5X84c010947; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 22:33:08 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6H5X59R010923; Sun, 16 Jul 2006 22:33:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 22:33:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <44BB1FB2.7060102 usfamily.net> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 00:27:14 -0500 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Joe's To Go References: <017901c6a858$7d7beda0$6401a8c0 NuDell> <8C8768D7156DE86-23F4-5D51@mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> <002201c6a87c$b68aab30$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C876FD2DB55E0E-554-8F0B@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> <44BA777C.1000304@usfamily.net> <8C8771854070493-152C-E158@mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C8771854070493-152C-E158 mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69700 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: hohlrauml6d netscape.net wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > From: thomas malloy > > Looks like a Brown's Gas generator to me. > > <><><><><><> > > That's what I initially thought until Fred Sparber pointed out that > many of the parallel plates within the electrolyzer are not connected > to either the anode nor the cathode. This implies something else > might be ahappenin'. > > Terry > > Thanks for pointing that out Terry. Does anyone understand how this cell works?. and patent numbers? --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 17 02:41:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6H9esuo032661; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 02:40:54 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6H9eqVQ032645; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 02:40:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 02:40:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=G3MZHTtbfHYtOPFhF5zMCuZ8bjM7bK+svG422ZXuWOEcThLDwRIhmsjK5A6MI082; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006711794039238 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 03:40:39 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9404be3e139acb185f19722a07b6444a714350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.233 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69701 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Some Waterfuel Numbers Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Auto-Ionization in water: H2O <---> H+ + 0H- or 2 H2O <----> H3O+ + OH- - 80 kJ/mole Solution and Hydration of H+ or H3O + and OH- (or e-) in Condensed water: - 1,000 kJ/mole Total Exotherm: 1,080 kJ/mole Ionization Energies: H 13.6 eV or 1,310 kJ/mole OH 13.17 eV or 1,269 kJ/mole H2O 12.6 eV or 1,214 kJ/mole HO2 11.53 eV or 1,111 kJ/mole H2O2 11.00 eV or 1,060 kJ/mole Electron Affinity: H 0.754 eV or 72.26 kJ/mole OH 1.828 eV or 176.13 kJ/mole O2 0.451 eV or 43.45 kJ/mole HO2 1.08 eV or 104.060 kJ/mole 2 H2O 19.00 eV or 1,831 kJ/mole What is the net energy extractable as work from these if these are drawn into an ICE as bubbles or nanoclusters/droplets? Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

 
Auto-Ionization in water: H2O <---> H+ + 0H-  or 2 H2O  <----> H3O+  + OH-
- 80 kJ/mole
Solution and Hydration of H+ or H3O +  and OH- (or e-) in Condensed water:
- 1,000 kJ/mole
Total Exotherm: 1,080 kJ/mole
 
Ionization Energies:
H   13.6 eV  or 1,310 kJ/mole
OH  13.17 eV or  1,269 kJ/mole
H2O  12.6 eV or 1,214 kJ/mole
HO2  11.53 eV or 1,111 kJ/mole
H2O2  11.00 eV or 1,060 kJ/mole
 
Electron Affinity:
H  0.754 eV or 72.26 kJ/mole
OH  1.828 eV or  176.13 kJ/mole
O2  0.451 eV or 43.45 kJ/mole
HO2  1.08 eV  or 104.060 kJ/mole
2 H2O 19.00 eV or 1,831 kJ/mole
 
What is the net energy extractable as work from these if
these are drawn into an ICE as bubbles or nanoclusters/droplets?
 
Fred
 
 
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 17 04:57:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6HBvZOm021912; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 04:57:35 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6HBvNv7021825; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 04:57:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 04:57:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=lfKO2SpB8N+ffLwWOF8kNbTxdS9CIuwqOijsz3WYXoK93OywOn1Z0lFODtsW8+Gv1v3NcYSaEY0LZd6uk59p1WgpGcH3dJ+9AjufSk+bPbxnAgBObnI8nqo+LiYvy2Pnav00Sdl8zZzmXhqr6+c3r1d0MvmMcWsZcA1aTtI+KUs= Message-ID: Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 07:57:22 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Joe's To Go In-Reply-To: <44BB1FB2.7060102 usfamily.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2046_6734075.1153137442741" References: <017901c6a858$7d7beda0$6401a8c0 NuDell> <8C8768D7156DE86-23F4-5D51 mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> <002201c6a87c$b68aab30$6401a8c0 NuDell> <8C876FD2DB55E0E-554-8F0B mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> <44BA777C.1000304 usfamily.net> <8C8771854070493-152C-E158 mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> <44BB1FB2.7060102 usfamily.net> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69702 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_Part_2046_6734075.1153137442741 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 7/17/06, thomas malloy wrote: Thanks for pointing that out Terry. Does anyone understand how this cell works?. and patent numbers? <><><><><> He has a patent pending, application number 20060075683. You can view it at: http://tinyurl.com/zrlkf As far as how it works, review the Joe Cell discussions since there is likely a relationship. Terry ------=_Part_2046_6734075.1153137442741 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline

On 7/17/06, thomas malloy <temalloy@usfamily.net> wrote:
 
Thanks for pointing that out Terry. Does anyone understand how this cell
works?. and patent numbers?
 
<><><><><>
 
He has a patent pending, application number 20060075683.  You can view it at:
 
 
As far as how it works, review the Joe Cell discussions since there is likely a relationship.
 
Terry
------=_Part_2046_6734075.1153137442741-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 17 05:17:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6HCH5EG000816; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 05:17:06 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6HCH4df000797; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 05:17:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 05:17:04 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-CVTV-Spamfilter: Scanned X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Virus-Scanned: by McAfee Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <001801c6a99a$e4476620$a6037841 xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: [VO]:Re: Joe's to Go Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 07:16:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C6A970.FADB86C0"; type="multipart/alternative" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69703 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C6A970.FADB86C0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0015_01C6A970.FADB86C0" ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C6A970.FADB86C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankThomas wrote... Thanks for pointing that out Terry. Does anyone understand how this cell works?. and patent numbers? <><><><><> He has a patent pending, application number 20060075683. You can view = it at: http://tinyurl.com/zrlkf As far as how it works, review the Joe Cell discussions since there is = likely a relationship. Terry Howdy Vorts.. Viewing an actual model notice the sleeves are mounted eccentric. Would = that produce a Fibonacci spiral vortex? http://www.vortexpluswater.com/vortex_basics.htm Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C6A970.FADB86C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Thomas wrote...
Thanks for pointing that out Terry. Does anyone understand how this = cell
works?. and patent numbers?
 
<><><><><>
 
He has a patent pending, application number 20060075683. =20 You can view it at:
As far as how it works, review the Joe Cell discussions since there = is=20 likely a relationship.
 
Terry
 
Howdy Vorts..
 
Viewing an actual model notice the sleeves are mounted eccentric. = Would=20 that produce a Fibonacci spiral vortex?

http://www.vort= expluswater.com/vortex_basics.htm

Richard

------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C6A970.FADB86C0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C6A970.FADB86C0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <001301c6a99a$e3a0c5e0$a6037841 xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C6A970.FADB86C0-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 17 06:40:17 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6HDe1ga008316; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 06:40:01 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6HDdsvG008162; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 06:39:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 06:39:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <083701c6a9a6$7550c250$3800a8c0 zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <002601c6a8e5$adc4a280$6401a8c0 NuDell> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 15:39:20 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6HDdnul008091 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69704 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: BAM Status: O X-Status: Jones, could it be some of the electrolysis gases gone into solution that recombined suddenly under the effect of the microwaves? BTW what do you mean by "one watt per hour"? Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 4:39 PM Subject: [Vo]: BAM > Well, more like a big POOF. > > But it was an interesting first test of water from the > Emerilized-JoeCell. Kitchen electro-chemistry at its finest ! and > a bare-bones experiment costing essentially zero, but it will > certainly lead further. Perhaps some school-kid will develop this > to the limit (which, of course, would be the > microwave-lawn-mower). > > The electro-treated water after an overnight charge - with no more > than one watt per hour added to a half-liter of water - is > becoming moderately "active." Wonder if that will continue. An > eye-dropper full, placed in a shot-glass in the microwave gave me > quite a start when it exploded rather violently after only ~3 > seconds. Untreated water will also (sometimes) violently explode > like this (usually it just boils instead of flashes), but it takes > about 4-5 seconds of irradiation. Also tested 3% HOOH - and that > actually takes longer than tap water - not less time - to boil, > and it never flashes - so the speeding-up effect is apparently not > related to peroxide. > > Really meaningless experiment on one level - as this water will > not likely power an engine, and it will not "ignite" with a > match - as in the Oz videos, and there is no shock from touching > it. > > ... but OTOH this was a 10 hour pretreatment at only one watt > added per hour, and tommorrow morning it will be 34 hours, so we > will see if it gets more active. > > BTW Greg Watson has set up a Y! forum dedicated to hydronium. He > has some strange ideas on this, but I am reserving judgment until > he publishes his results. If treating water electrically (but > without full electrolysis) works to make it active - which cannot > happen according to mainstream science - then it will require some > 'outside-the-box' thinking. Greg Watson may be able to do that as > well as any of us. He mentions this gimmick-item today - > coincidentally (not sold by him): > > http://hiddencures.com/ionizer.htm > > Which has the identical "power supply" that I am using. Ha! Really > sophisticated folks ! In the USA these things are normally tossed > out in the garbage. Amazing what people will pay - if you add a > bogus health claim to something. > > BTW if you want to try this kind of kind of silly thing (or > supervise your inquisitive child/grandchild) - my "secret" cathode > is the needle from a hand-pump used for inflating basketballs. I > am trying to avoid any hydrogen gas being formed on the cathode, > so was looking for the minimum surface area - and also the needle > could possibly allow air to enter. Frank Grimer thinks that > nanobubbles could be "filled" with aether - not air, but either > way the needle seems to work. > > BAM - that was quite a flash actually. Makes me wish I had one of > those microwave powered lawn-mowers which we talked about a few > years ago - available to test with the longer-treated water > tommorrow... > > Funny how that half-baked idea never made it to prime-time. But > then again, they probably did not know about Emerilized-water ;-) > > Jones > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 17 07:07:01 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6HE6gAC022955; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 07:06:43 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6HE6fQa022931; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 07:06:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 07:06:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=pwKqmvriti9LyAbqfPZLNTfp319Tix4zohrSxxCSZ6Daqi8wdLD8d5ktvLYSFdT+UJmaHzrBRMRuWJkRyo4sSp5grFwhmjKBhPIOCaeeL3ul0QlZ+VAK7dGTLpxJ+BbI+zBHHQAi+vP0M+7yMwhvIHMue/j8aUq4f5IuMdXTq64= Message-ID: Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:06:40 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [VO]:Re: Joe's to Go In-Reply-To: <001801c6a99a$e4476620$a6037841 xptower> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <001801c6a99a$e4476620$a6037841 xptower> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69705 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Howdy Vorts.. > > Viewing an actual model notice the sleeves are mounted eccentric. Would that produce a Fibonacci spiral vortex? > > http://www.vortexpluswater.com/vortex_basics.htm An actual model? Of the Aquygen? Neat site. I've never seen so many vortices! Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 17 09:55:33 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6HGtDZl010228; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 09:55:13 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6HGt9HD010186; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 09:55:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 09:55:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <004601c6a9c1$c1ec29e0$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 09:55:06 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69706 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Nanobubble update Status: O X-Status: After ~35 hours of low voltage water "electrification": Biggest disappointment - there is no evidence that this treated water will support a flame or is in any way combustible. Using a propane blow torch across the surface, nothing unusual is seen. However -for the record and Patrick Vessey, this does not necessarily mean that the one infamous JC video, which is purporting to show evidence of treated water sustaining a flame, has been falsified (although it is strongly suspected by me to be false). That is because this more basic experiment was set up purposefully to create nanobubbles on a hydrophobic surface (Teflon), instead of following the normal JC protocol. That particular video evidence of a flame has never been replicated AFAIK but I wish that someone who is reliable could repeat that most important experiment - and show that a flame can be sustained by the treated water. Nevertheless, this simplified "nanobubble technique," and the Teflon surface has apparently accomplished the creation of a stable population of nanobubbles, and the bubbles are apparently storing a charge (or something else!!) - although no significant voltage (to ground) registers on a dmm. The pH is about 5.5 and the water is slightly more viscous and slightly discolored. I am trying to freeze some now to see if that physical property has changed significantly. Trying to test for conductivity is problematic as my normally reliable Simpson 467 meter is going everywhere, as is my run-of-the-mill dmm. However, no gas was ever noticed being evolved and if the conductivity had increased, there should have been actual water-splitting. The biggest surprise is that the water is more active in a microwave oven (electric field). This could indicate that any electric charge which has built-up over time and was stored in the pretreatment process - which charge is being released under that kind of irradiation. At any rate - a small sample can be made to flash to steam (violently) in very short time (less than half the time it takes for tap water to boil off) - although a rough estimate of using this unusual property to power an ICE - in which microwaves are being admitted into the cylinder instead of a spark, indicates that this will not be enough to self-power. Nevertheless, this pretreated water should be tried in an ICE - possibly even using some hydrocarbon mixed in like methanol. To that end, I have enlisted the services of a local inventor who teaches physics at the community college near here. He already has a HydroBooster installed on an old clunker already. This is rather than try to do it all myself (being a bit more agile with a keyboard these days than with a monkey wrench). However, there is a very affordable engine which Fred Sparber suggested: http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200322198_200322198 It's hard to beat a small 4-cycle engine for under 80 bucks - if there are any do-it-yourselfers out there in volandia, who are keeping an open-mind on this very controversial possibility: waterfuel. Jones From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 17 10:31:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6HHU6FG027088; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:31:19 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6HHNMbK023274; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:23:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:23:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Qi0W+jDt2b4d7mnYdOQHT9s1Co8OrWY6Ayt87fB9cSS3Z2MzkXKDa7rIb0nU1QsK702F/I5zpiI8g/hhJCOzCuXB2ROS/wVrK/sCGPzITITx1y6N5stZsT/CGg9A+Vh+AIk0QmOu6adwaPYWmnzbn+ZkIuCcivgHuoC4fYmJoIs= Message-ID: Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:23:10 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Nanobubble update In-Reply-To: <004601c6a9c1$c1ec29e0$6401a8c0 NuDell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <004601c6a9c1$c1ec29e0$6401a8c0 NuDell> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69707 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 7/17/06, Jones Beene wrote: http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200322198_200322198 > It's hard to beat a small 4-cycle engine for under 80 bucks - if > there are any do-it-yourselfers out there in volandia, who are > keeping an open-mind on this very controversial possibility: > waterfuel. Yeah, but wouldn't this one work just as well: http://www.coxmodels.com/products.asp?dept=36 Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 17 11:04:35 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6HI4Djg017714; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:04:13 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6HI4Bee017690; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:04:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:04:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=tpjjZOZ52YlHFN56qohPndj67CTXrkKAAwq+pltVpkZbSzEEttmN7kmQ60KZuWZtwNvoPb2Q4j9e3OgWsQiCaFgLxljwqxBk6w5qGQOyINVvC61uwGe5hET9R3/0/18ecIHqZKZk4HlF9xJDUvdfplgFhX013feGdbgHhY95894= Message-ID: Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:04:08 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69708 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Eureka Status: O X-Status: http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=11493 "New TV series 'Eureka' explores weird physics in top-secret town Steve Hammons On Tuesday, July 18, the new TV series "Eureka" will debut on the SciFi Channel. This series explores the idea that a top-secret community in the Pacific Northwest is home to government scientific experts and strange anomalies in the physics of the town." http://www.scifi.com/eureka/ Looks like some good escapism for Vorts! Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 17 11:27:34 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6HIE16K023346; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:14:02 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6HIDr4T023261; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:13:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:13:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <006001c6a9cc$bdd89c70$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:13:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69709 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Eureka Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Blanton" Subject: Eureka Isn't that where Ken Shoulders moved to ? ... the one where you-know: "you can check-out but you can never leave"... From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 17 11:42:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6HIfoB1005728; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:41:51 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6HIfnQ3005705; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:41:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:41:49 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <007201c6a9d0$a6dc1250$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex-l" References: <410-22006711794039238 earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 11:41:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69710 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Some Waterfuel Numbers Status: O X-Status: Fred, You posted: Electron Affinity: [snip] 2 H2O 19.00 eV or 1,831 kJ/mole Is that a typo ? is it supposed to be 2HO2 ? From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 17 12:20:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6HJK5Zt024397; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:20:15 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6HJIOX5023834; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:18:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:18:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=JKCZIFe0sGbir4o8eWSbMaSNkbFSbTr12miXla+Y6uNonVSQElhwwlqlmSWmQZVu; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006711719183485 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]: Re: Some Waterfuel Numbers Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:18:03 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940348a60432fbf8c2bde3b5f26675838dc350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.205 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69711 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: CRC gave it as "n H2O Electron Affinity 2-19 eV" Fred > [Original Message] > From: Jones Beene > > Fred, > > You posted: > Electron Affinity: > [snip] > 2 H2O 19.00 eV or 1,831 kJ/mole > > > Is that a typo ? is it supposed to be 2HO2 ? From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 17 12:59:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6HJx9PN010793; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:59:10 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6HJx7Aq010767; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:59:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:59:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=JSAjpHNJN7SHg5db0Hf1jp8EjNNJx72MCe4NJWkn+6Ous9yZ8HRc6eJpYYBVqNtF; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006711719585087 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]: Re: Some Waterfuel Numbers Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:58:50 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9401eef6d1df1e75f0c86139ab687f36f80350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.127 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69712 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I double checked the CRC tables again, Jones. (H2O)n n=2-19 eV is how it's presented. Other polyatomic molecules presented the same way. Interesting, Huh? Amazing what you can see with a magnifying glass. :-) Fred Jones Beene wrote. > > Fred, > > You posted: > Electron Affinity: > [snip] > 2 H2O 19.00 eV or 1,831 kJ/mole > > > Is that a typo ? is it supposed to be 2HO2 ? From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 17 14:00:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6HL0P6e008535; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:00:26 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6HL0J1c008474; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:00:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:00:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00d001c6a9e4$021c3b00$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" References: Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:00:16 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: <5_1PE.A.QEC.jp_uEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69713 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: BAM Status: O X-Status: Michel, Still not getting your postings to vortex, but I have been checking the archives periodically as my ISP filter removes about 10% of any newsgroup messages anyway, and all of yours. These ISP filters are supposed to "learn" what constitutes "Spam," but I am getting more of that than ever before... Ha! so much for "artificial intelligence." My apology for the hasty original posting. The background is this: there has been a lot of un-scientific anecdote recently about the possibility of using treated-water in an internal combustion engine - especially anecdote coming from Australia, where marvelous claims have been made. If true, there are a few ways to explain what could be going on - in addition to deliberate fraud - which seems unlikely given the number of reports and lack of a financial motive. But in an effort to find some initial or probative evidence of an anomaly, this simple experiment materialized, and it would be a mistake to read too much into it. The idea is that "nanobubbles" form and store electrical charge. There are scientific citation in support of part of this premise - given in the previous postings. These nanobubbles could probably NOT store H2 itself - as you suggest - due to its volatility and the fact that there was force circulation due to the container being placed over a large magnet. The power supply for this simple experiment was a ubiquitous black cube 6 v. DC wall transformer. It was drawing ~150 milliamps when tested. I made no effort to datalog P-in. Perhaps someone better equipped can do a better job with the details in the future, if the nanobubble idea turns out to be tenable. Basically I was trying to avoid water-splitting and just looking to see if there was anything obvious or robust going-on with a long pre-charging period of water, but using a Teflon-coated (hydrophobic) anode. There could be something worth further investigation here, and hopefully the next time I post on this, it will be a little better documented. However, the water in this situation never gets to the point of supporting a flame, which is seen in one of the videos from Australia. Furthermore, I do not think that the effect of explosive flashing, following microwave irradiation, is due to retained H2 gas. And I did make an effort to test 3% HOOH in the same way. I found that peroxide is slower to boil-off than tap water, and never flashes. Tap water (eau d'municipal ?) normally boils instead of flashing in the microwave, but one sample did flash to steam (one time out in ten trials), whereas the treated water always flashed, never giving it time to boil, and always flashes much faster than the boiling away period of either tap water or HOOH. Once it was instantaneous follwong the oven coming on. That is the limit of this simple experiment. The "flash" itself is violent and totally clears the container, but there is no assurance that all of the 1 ml of water per test, was actually converted to vapor by phase-change - since as we know - a flash of steam will always carry away some percentage of atomized water, which has not undergone phase-change. But - the bottom line is that an intriguing possibility exists here (charged nanobubbles) for expalin the prior reports - or which could be put to use otherwise. Certainly it might help to explain at least part of the anecdotes which have been circulating about "waterfuel". Hope that is a little clearer. Jones From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 17 20:59:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6I3wsxn002129; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 20:58:54 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6I3wpEc002105; Mon, 17 Jul 2006 20:58:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 20:58:51 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Joe's To Go Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 13:58:49 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <017901c6a858$7d7beda0$6401a8c0 NuDell> <8C8768D7156DE86-23F4-5D51@mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> <002201c6a87c$b68aab30$6401a8c0@NuDell> <8C876FD2DB55E0E-554-8F0B@mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> <44BA777C.1000304@usfamily.net> <8C8771854070493-152C-E158@mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C8771854070493-152C-E158 mblkn-m12.sysops.aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta03ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.67.225] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Tue, 18 Jul 2006 03:58:48 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6I3wmVD002075 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69714 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to hohlrauml6d netscape.net's message of Sun, 16 Jul 2006 13:56:41 -0400: Hi, [snip] >That's what I initially thought until Fred Sparber pointed out that >many of the parallel plates within the electrolyzer are not connected >to either the anode nor the cathode. This implies something else might >be ahappenin'. [snip] It sounds like a typical series (as opposed to parallel) cell. I think this concept was introduced by George Wiseman (www.eagle-research.com). The Joe cell has essentially the same design, i.e. "floating" plates which effectively divide the total voltage between cathode and anode by the number of segments. In a Joe cell it's usually 3-4 segments resulting in the voltage drop across each being about 12/4 = 3 Volts. This is also a far superior way of utilizing grid voltage, since no transformer is needed at all, just a cheap (low current) bridge. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 18 04:27:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6IBRWpo016207; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 04:27:32 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6IBRUK0016188; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 04:27:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 04:27:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=cJM/USA3/ToHOLLZFTJxjIdgYgMipdD4KCmuWa/zh46qNR+YbW7NHeg+VdsrOh91RWxeAYMvYqQkpDe73nIEPRBwRgwJTX77tWA7KbbvtZebrgYgcqX1oh22KNRQhFhAp2joJ8EeSlO9MB1erih4xisNNeLBdgTq9tuHFY7+M6w= ; Message-ID: <20060718112729.14386.qmail web33308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 04:27:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Arnold Subject: [Vo]: Dense Plasma Focus Fusion To: vortex-l eskimo.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-759666873-1153222049=:86063" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69715 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --0-759666873-1153222049=:86063 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Does this sound familiar? Chris Arnold Upcoming speaker at COFE II George Miley, Professor of Nuclear and Electrical Engineering at the University of Illinois and Fusion Studies Lab Director (http://fsl.ne.uiuc.edu) from 1975 to the present, has also been a consultant for Lawrence Livermore Laboratory, Livermore, CA • Argonne National Laboratory, Fusion Power Division • Los Alamos National Laboratory • Dept. of Energy, Idaho Operations Office • and Clean Energy Technologies. Recently, George has been researching plasma focus fusion, a new and exciting form of hot fusion and presented the results at STAIF, the Space Technologies Applications Information Forum. Paul Koloc and Eric Lerner will also join a panel discussion with George on the expectations for this energy technology. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. --0-759666873-1153222049=:86063 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


Does this sound familiar?
Chris Arnold
 
Upcoming speaker at COFE II
 
George Miley, Professor of Nuclear and Electrical Engineering at the University of Illinois and Fusion Studies Lab Director (http://fsl.ne.uiuc.edu) from 1975 to the present, has also been a consultant for Lawrence Livermore Laboratory, Livermore, CA • Argonne National Laboratory, Fusion Power Division • Los Alamos National Laboratory • Dept. of Energy, Idaho Operations Office • and Clean Energy Technologies. Recently, George has been researching plasma focus fusion, a new and exciting form of hot fusion and presented the results at STAIF, the Space Technologies Applications Information Forum. Paul Koloc and Eric Lerner will also join a panel discussion with George on the expectations for this energy technology.

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. --0-759666873-1153222049=:86063-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 18 05:43:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6IChFXF024458; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 05:43:15 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6IChDTN024443; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 05:43:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 05:43:13 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=oeAGHDXpspql8qTTrZ2Y61bBEDTrxyt+rVV9EwFfXMF/x0UD5nZvuKNxaW4DzzHGCUi7+/SvlatMs7bmqQeCNCyO1WD4RQMLyQCe0XkbqecqVUF0fcjRoqDa6uHiriuOO7CJTfEPGYISBcSP/R1bfN9Cp2GepwSwlRxPa1Yguj4= Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 08:43:13 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69716 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Austin Applause Status: O X-Status: http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/2004-10-22/pols_feature17.html http://tinyurl.com/bdltw Can Austin Kick-Start the Hybrid-Car Future? BY DANIEL MOTTOLA Imagine thousands of next-generation plug-in hybrid vehicles on the road, capable of traveling 20 to 60 miles without producing any emissions or using a drop of petroleum. Then, at night, these hybrids would be plugged into normal wall sockets connected to an all-renewable energy electric grid. If that sounds good to you, you're not alone; Austin Energy and City Hall have been pondering the idea too, and in September the City Council passed a resolution in support of a plug-in hybrid project that would link the energy and transportation sectors. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 18 06:40:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6IDe9VM020829; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 06:40:15 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6IDb8nU019527; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 06:37:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 06:37:08 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=YFm7NxYFN6ec58QyJg3t7rE4g1t5yCeyWz+oLtrAvDQSyZwmzBRq9sDMWiSgWZ/d+Mf4OiyDdOH9jGym7KRaMHqmgob+spveCFs0pxnyQvrXPoZfksPZpmKYkCV0if200pqL7uLL6gy82+IKMTILP70ERMGAiJpZtB1Vz9l5GzY= Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 09:37:07 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <0YKeP.A._wE.EQOvEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69717 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: EV Battery Costs Status: O X-Status: http://www.laweekly.com/general/features/whos-resurrecting-the-electric-car/13975/ http://tinyurl.com/pry3y excerpt from an excellent article: But lithium costs exponentially more. "With a lead-acid battery pack," Wilson says, "if you spend $1,500, you get a range of 25 miles; with nickel-metal hydride, for $6,000 you get a range of 60 to 100. With lithium, you spend $20,000, but [get a] 200-mile range. Lithiums are bitchin', but they're just not really available yet. So everybody's stuck with lead-acid batteries." From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 18 09:39:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6IGdRfI025084; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 09:39:27 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6IGdOVC025050; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 09:39:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 09:39:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <004201c6aa88$b89fea80$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 09:39:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69718 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: OT: Ten Years After Status: O X-Status: As the wreckage of the once gigantic jet-liner was fished out of the choppy waters off Long Island, many honest citizens came forward saying they had seen the plane explode after being hit by what looked, and sounded, like an errant surface-to-air missile. The FBI Interviewed more than 150 witnesses who claimed to have seen a bright object streaking towards the jumbo jet in mid-flight, but investigators never corroborated or confirmed any of those eye witness reports: implying that it was probably just a strange episode of some kind of mass-hysteria, most likely .... riiight. After lengthy public hearings into the disaster, The National Transportation Safety Board concluded that fuel vapors in the center tank had suddenly exploded, blowing the nose off the plane. This - despite the fact that nothing similar had ever happened before and it was impossible to recreate that scenario in independent testing. The most notable conspiracy theory is the widely belief that a missile from a U.S. Navy ship was responsible. Along with the lone-gunman "final-say-so", this is on the short list of "official" explanations which the majority of thinking individuals, of all political persuasions, are most likely to reject - after reviewing the facts. So prevalent were these conspiracy theories that the term "Pierre Salinger Syndrome" - which has been broadened into a belief that almost everything on the Internet is (at least arguably) true - has entered the lexicon. Salinger's evidence was an e-mail from Richard Russell, a former United Airlines pilot who also used to investigate crashes for the Airline Pilots Association. A few months after Salinger stepped forward, Russell obtained even more damning evidence: a videotape of radar screens from the night of the explosion. For investigators, the conspiracy theories "wasted our time and diverted valuable resources." The FBI still maintains that there is no evidence of a criminal act. Duh. They insinuate that the videotapes were likely doctored. They are silent on the possibility of an military error and have steadfastly refused to allow unsupervised interviews with any crew of the USS Normandy. What "real" purpose is served in such a case by letting the public know the whole truth ? - that - apparently, is the neocon sentiment on proceeding with any inquiry on this type of thing. They are probably correct - in a strange sort of way. Jones "Ten Years After" (the rockers) sez: "I'll leave it up to you" Tax the rich, feed the poor Till there are no rich no more I'd love to change the world But I don't know what to do So I'll leave it up to you Population keeps on breeding Nation bleeding, still more feeding economy Life is funny, skies are sunny Bees make honey, who needs money, monopoly I'd love to change the world But I don't know what to do So I'll leave it up to you World pollution, there's no solution Institution, electrocution Just black and white, rich or poor Them and us, stop the war I'd love to change the world But I don't know what to do So I'll leave it up to you From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 18 10:32:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6IHVl3Y018995; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 10:31:48 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6IHVjNd018968; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 10:31:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 10:31:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-CVTV-Spamfilter: Scanned X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Virus-Scanned: by McAfee Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <000e01c6aa90$0424c910$0100007f xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: [VO]:Re: OT: Ten Years After Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 12:30:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01C6AA65.FB0B7A10"; type="multipart/alternative" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69719 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C6AA65.FB0B7A10 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000B_01C6AA65.FB0D00B0" ------=_NextPart_001_000B_01C6AA65.FB0D00B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankJones wrote.. What "real" purpose is served in such a case by letting the public=20 know the whole truth ? - that - apparently, is the neocon=20 sentiment on proceeding with any inquiry on this type of thing.=20 They are probably correct - in a strange sort of way. Howdy Jones... I gave up wondering why and what people think and believe what they = will..... cuz... I have often been caught in the same snare.. Back when = I was 17 I believed I was the only one that understood everything but = now I think I am the only one that doesn't. The most profound question = ever posed was to Christ.. " what is truth". Do I believe TWA flight 800 was brought down by a missile? Yes.. But = that begs the question.. by whom?.. The US.? .. Terrorists? .. What if = the US did it with the intent of blaming the terrorists only to be = threatened by the terrorists with proof it was the US which in turn = required some heavy coverup by the US ? See what happens when conjecture = enters the equation.. We wind up saying.. we don't really know the truth = but we think we do. =20 Ole Ben Franklin.. one of my greater heros .. had a born distrust of = governments. The US Constitution is actually a document that was written = to protect people from government and not visa-verse. Perhaps ole Ben's = writing should be a required course in grade school rather than American = History. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_000B_01C6AA65.FB0D00B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Jones wrote..
 
What "real" purpose is served in such a case by letting the public =
know=20 the whole truth ? - that - apparently, is the neocon
sentiment on = proceeding=20 with any inquiry on this type of thing.
They are probably correct - = in a=20 strange sort of way.

Howdy Jones...
 
I gave up wondering why and what people think and believe what they = will..... cuz... I have often been caught in the same snare.. Back when = I was 17=20 I believed I was the only one that understood everything but now I = think I=20 am the only one that doesn't. The most profound question ever posed was = to=20 Christ.. " what is truth".
 
Do I believe TWA flight 800 was brought down by a missile?  = Yes.. But=20 that begs the question.. by whom?.. The US.? .. Terrorists? .. What if = the US=20 did it with the intent of blaming the terrorists only to be threatened = by the=20 terrorists with proof it was the US which in turn required some heavy = coverup by=20 the US ? See what happens when conjecture enters the equation.. We wind = up=20 saying.. we don't really know the truth but we think we do. 
Ole Ben Franklin.. one of my greater heros .. had a born distrust = of=20 governments. The US Constitution is actually a document that was written = to=20 protect people from government and not visa-verse. Perhaps ole Ben's = writing=20 should be a required course in grade school rather than American = History.
 
Richard

 

------=_NextPart_001_000B_01C6AA65.FB0D00B0-- ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C6AA65.FB0B7A10 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000901c6aa8f$e3cc2550$0100007f xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C6AA65.FB0B7A10-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 18 10:59:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6IHxFf2001414; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 10:59:16 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6IHx9VD001355; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 10:59:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 10:59:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Nnga422/b6wdGqgZg9JzOQaw8gB5FN7a3b3RqGHEz2qgYkzWOK+ftCI2/DLvTp2hMZf3Uq5ZCZ58Gxs1R1kMV01LkloWR98oC6tWXE02lHs1nmFYnCVptAd9t0UzYdJLcL0KMYJ300IB+YWrwNSmfjkwnR3QFxifBVSHOyaWbDo= Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 13:59:08 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: OT: Ten Years After In-Reply-To: <004201c6aa88$b89fea80$6401a8c0 NuDell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <004201c6aa88$b89fea80$6401a8c0 NuDell> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69720 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 7/18/06, Jones Beene > "Ten Years After" (the rockers) sez: > World pollution, there's no solution > Institution, electrocution > Just black and white, rich or poor > Them and us, stop the war Rapid Eye Movement replies: That's great, it starts with an earthquake, birds and snakes, an aeroplane and Lenny Bruce is not afraid. Eye of a hurricane, listen to yourself churn - world serves its own needs, dummy serve your own needs. Feed it off an aux speak, grunt, no, strength, Ladder start to clatter with fear fight down height. Wire in a fire, representing seven games, a government for hire and a combat site. Left of west and coming in a hurry with the furies breathing down your neck. Team by team reporters baffled, trumped, tethered cropped. Look at that low playing! Fine, then. Uh oh, overflow, population, common food, but it'll do. Save yourself, serve yourself. World serves its own needs, listen to your heart bleed dummy with the rapture and the revered and the right, right. You vitriolic, patriotic, slam, fight, bright light, feeling pretty psyched. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 18 17:50:06 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6J0nqpr030994; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 17:49:52 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6J0nn0o030965; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 17:49:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 17:49:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=q4Wbg0BOcEXXGlEEWNuY5rsYLZRP7ilSa6b9UuJ23fqmxDuawiUphb7q1wq2s09G; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006731904941477 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:49:41 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940ee90a3f042e1561ead1b0c1533ffffd8350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.165.133 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69721 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Quartz Rod-Tube One-Stroke Diesel for Jones' Firewater Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Put a drop of the "activated" water in the small bore quartz tube, insert quartz rod attached to pre-compressed coil spring and pull the trigger. http://www.quartz.com/quartz.html http://www.centuryspring.com/ The hot compressed air should cause a flash, if the water-vapor is activated. Send us the pictures. :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

Put a drop of the "activated" water in the small bore quartz tube,
insert quartz rod attached to pre-compressed coil spring
and pull the trigger.
 
 
 
The hot compressed air should cause a flash,
if the water-vapor is activated.
 
Send us the pictures.   :-)
 
Fred
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 18 18:44:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6J1hp0K016488; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:43:56 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6J1holu016472; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:43:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:43:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-CVTV-Spamfilter: Scanned X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Virus-Scanned: by McAfee Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <001201c6aad4$c436eb40$72037841 xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: [VO]:OT: Oh! NOLA Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 20:43:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C6AAAA.DADA7530" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69722 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C6AAAA.DADA7530 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000F_01C6AAAA.DADA7530" ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C6AAAA.DADA7530 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankHowdy Vorts, Seldom do I get so disgusted with government bureaucracy as when I = watched the TV news story reporting the indictment of nurses and Dr.Anna = Pou for 2nd degree murder. The attorney General of Louisana Chas Foti = announced the charges. The accused supposedly killed elderly patients some FOUR days after the = Katrina hurricane struck New Orleans (NOLA). The TV reporter was lind enough to mention the hospital was without = power, water , AC, supplies and had begged for relief. Leave it to a Louisana politician Attorney General to set the moral tone = of the most corrupt state in the nation. What did the nurses and doctors ask after four days of hell .. "where = were you". Folks, FEMA is fake. AG Chas.FOTI makes me ashamed to be as close as = Texas to him. My heart goes out to doctor Anna. At least she showed = mercy, something missing from all the talk and excuses by the people in = charge after Katrina. Houston opened their hearts and their homes to the = refugees but the government of Louisana was missing in action and = presumed dead. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13916867/ Richard ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C6AAAA.DADA7530 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Howdy Vorts,
 
 
Seldom do I get so disgusted with government bureaucracy as when I = watched=20 the TV news story reporting the indictment of nurses and Dr.Anna = Pou for=20 2nd degree murder. The attorney General of Louisana Chas Foti announced = the=20 charges.
The accused supposedly killed elderly patients some FOUR days after = the=20 Katrina hurricane struck New Orleans (NOLA).
The TV reporter was lind enough to mention the hospital was without = power,=20 water , AC, supplies and had begged for relief.
Leave it to a Louisana politician Attorney General to set the moral = tone of=20 the most corrupt state in the nation.
What did the nurses and doctors ask after four days of hell .. = "where were=20 you".
Folks, FEMA is fake. AG Chas.FOTI makes me ashamed to be as = close as=20 Texas to him. My heart goes out to doctor Anna. At least she showed = mercy,=20 something missing from all the talk and excuses by the people in charge = after=20 Katrina. Houston opened their hearts and their homes to the = refugees but=20 the government of Louisana was missing in action and presumed = dead.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/i= d/13916867/
Richard
 

 

------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C6AAAA.DADA7530-- ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C6AAAA.DADA7530 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000d01c6aad4$c394dee0$72037841 xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C6AAAA.DADA7530-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 18 18:47:01 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6J1kh94017836; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:46:43 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6J1kfQP017819; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:46:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:46:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Reply-To: From: "John Steck" To: Subject: RE: [Vo]: Stoking the Furnace Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 20:46:36 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 In-Reply-To: <8C874AB3A44E3AD-554-11DB mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> X-EN-UserInfo: 903cebd83ef8529e7e6c1a7efe57779c:d8c21b0922dfed363e9ac277a3db5901 X-EN-AuthUser: johnsteck Sender: "John Steck" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69723 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Aren't we supposed to flip magnetic poles soon? Any chance the beginning of this reoccurring phenomenon isn't starting to dump resistive heating into the system as gyroscopic forces of the current pole alignment are slowly overcome? I can't think this event wouldn't have a severe environmental signature, like.... http://www.michaelmandeville.com/polarmotion/spinaxis/vortex_correlations2.h tm That is not to say green house gasses are not of extreme concern, but likewise why is CO2 getting the spot light from the scientific community and no one seems to be pulling the red flag on the more alarming and more impactful methane cathrate evaporation from the disappearing permafrost? In comparison, CO2 is almost laughable. Is this stuff just not sexy enough for mainstream science reporting? or does it just poke too many holes in darling socialist / income redistribution schemes like Kyoto for the pathological self-masochists of the world? -john -----Original Message----- From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net [mailto:hohlrauml6d@netscape.net] Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:51 AM To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Stoking the Furnace Maybe it's not us: http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2003/0313irradiance.htm l http://tinyurl.com/qwwo7 "NASA STUDY FINDS INCREASING SOLAR TREND THAT CAN CHANGE CLIMATE Since the late 1970s, the amount of solar radiation the sun emits, during times of quiet sunspot activity, has increased by nearly .05 percent per decade, according to a NASA funded study." From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 18 19:09:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6J28aRe029102; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 19:08:36 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6J28YPL029064; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 19:08:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 19:08:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=bouHzKltXMmrAQUWsA+kASGoY0tMtaIepBO0kw4T8NXmieUx3n4v9O21Kpb9rQ9W; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200673192820818 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 20:08:20 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940c1056a1d98af497e2f062f81dc7881cb350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.182 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69724 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Another Option for Igniting Jones' Firewater Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Scrounge up some cat converter beads, Heat one or more of them to a bright red color, and drop them into the "activated" water. http://courses.cm.utexas.edu/archive/Fall2001/CH431/expt_9.pdf Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

Scrounge up some cat converter beads,
 
Heat one or more of them to a bright red color, and
drop them into the "activated" water.
 
 
Fred
 
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 18 20:18:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6J3HsdH025395; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 20:17:54 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6J3HqvZ025377; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 20:17:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 20:17:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: EV Battery Costs Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 13:17:47 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <4o8rb21v1ppvverohjf77mg875rfushbpd 4ax.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta04sl.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.66.191] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Wed, 19 Jul 2006 03:17:46 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6J3HkOX025330 Resent-Message-ID: <2wCx0B.A.dMG.gRavEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69725 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Terry Blanton's message of Tue, 18 Jul 2006 09:37:07 -0400: Hi, [snip] >http://www.laweekly.com/general/features/whos-resurrecting-the-electric-car/13975/ > >http://tinyurl.com/pry3y > >excerpt from an excellent article: > Another excerpt: "More puzzling still, in 2006, nearly all of General Motors’ research and development goes toward cars and trucks with internal-combustion engines; GM no longer has any research arm dedicated to electric vehicles. Its only alternative-fuel venture at the moment promotes corn-based ethanol, a fuel that, due to modern agricultural practices, takes as much energy — in the form of petroleum — to produce as it yields. This remains true even after some reliable experts, such as former Shell Oil analyst and geology professor Kenneth Deffeyes, reported that world oil production has already passed the peak predicted by geologist M. King Hubbert." ....of course they are concentrating on petroleum. The value of the last half of the fuel in the ground is much greater than the value of the first half. Does anyone seriously expect the oil companies to pass up the opportunity of a lifetime, that they have been waiting decades to cash in on? Obviously if the public doesn't want to be bled dry, then we are going to have to come with an alternative, and we are going to have to take matters into our own hands. We can't sit back and expect the majors to do it for us. They have a very serious interest in maintaining the status quo. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 18 22:52:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6J5qPmh023320; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 22:52:25 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6J5qMgo023306; Tue, 18 Jul 2006 22:52:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 22:52:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <44BDC864.7060208 usfamily.net> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 00:51:32 -0500 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com References: <4o8rb21v1ppvverohjf77mg875rfushbpd@4ax.com> In-Reply-To: <4o8rb21v1ppvverohjf77mg875rfushbpd 4ax.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69726 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Correcting the fuel supply problem Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >In reply to Terry Blanton's message of Tue, 18 Jul 2006 09:37:07 >-0400: >Hi, > >> >>Another excerpt: >> >>"More puzzling still, in 2006, nearly all of General Motors’ research and development goes toward cars and trucks with internal-combustion engines; GM no longer has any research arm dedicated to electric vehicles. Its only alternative-fuel venture >> I talked to a GM dealer last week. This man is the chairman of the dealer's advisory board. I asked him if the E-85 vehicle would burn methanol, he replied that it would not. I then opined that they aren't serious about doing anything about the fuel supply. He agreed. Although he did say that GM is going to roll out a line of hybrids. That was before the biodiesel from algae thread happened. I get a sick feeling in my stomach, because IMHO, if they were serious about correcting the situation, the powers that be, would be building a demonstration algae farm. My suggestion would be to build three pipelines; sea water in, brine out, biodiesel out. I'm not going to hold my breath. >at the moment promotes corn-based ethanol, a fuel that, due to modern agricultural practices, takes as much energy — in the form of petroleum > The production of ethanol benefits certain wealthy interests. > >....of course they are concentrating on petroleum. The value of > Just as they have been doing right along. Obviously if the public doesn't want to be bled dry, then we are going to have to come with an alternative, There are alternatives, but developing them doesn't seem to fit with the agenda of the powers that be. --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 19 01:53:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6J8rZUN025897; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 01:53:35 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6J8rVJN025860; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 01:53:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 01:53:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=j+e7i+XeYPRyfdR+qzcZljqk/zX5Zypivad/qzhajpvMkpRxJwgb5q9wULccHLa9H8+ZFRZWdGL8qcZ4A5ZALc0N5Hwp9qwrdMhsOEKtj81wbSNDsscfg/huLmdGGmVrAC75jw1JuBKAQIgP/9oFra5kCQKoH9qYzQ7+Bq3f9S4= Message-ID: Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 04:53:26 -0400 From: "john herman" To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_38383_12354986.1153299206019" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69727 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Hamdi Ucar Status: O X-Status: ------=_Part_38383_12354986.1153299206019 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Searching for Hamdi Ucar Please ask him to RSVP this address Much thanks Hermajohn ------=_Part_38383_12354986.1153299206019 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
Searching for Hamdi Ucar
 
    Please ask him to RSVP
 
 this address
 
         Much thanks
 
      Hermajohn
------=_Part_38383_12354986.1153299206019-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 19 02:01:31 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6J91EQP029107; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 02:01:15 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6J91Cda029081; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 02:01:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 02:01:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=oSLUWotwTYmzSZXV3gYS4kxE+1fRLISBCRCqPk/qx86nIClIjnEKAC28mLWA3X6R1HD0g2kltJm2FFhOeWllZ8+YnPA8vDPiIgoRbynob4q/pm4J8JMx4/Dk+DcvVIBDw3zUqdRU1ROD4s+FS7kEpQY6IUD78Sq2+k0BDHhwNu0= Message-ID: Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 05:01:10 -0400 From: "john herman" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [VO]:OT: Oh! NOLA In-Reply-To: <001201c6aad4$c436eb40$72037841 xptower> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_38547_26563783.1153299670560" References: <001201c6aad4$c436eb40$72037841 xptower> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69728 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_Part_38547_26563783.1153299670560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline What is FOTI? Can you give me a personal communication update about what you writeof? Please. I do not watch TV or read papers or listen to much radio. JH On 7/18/06, RC Macaulay wrote: > > Howdy Vorts, > > > Seldom do I get so disgusted with government bureaucracy as when I watched > the TV news story reporting the indictment of nurses and Dr.Anna Pou for > 2nd degree murder. The attorney General of Louisana Chas Foti announced the > charges. > The accused supposedly killed elderly patients some FOUR days after the > Katrina hurricane struck New Orleans (NOLA). > The TV reporter was lind enough to mention the hospital was without power, > water , AC, supplies and had begged for relief. > Leave it to a Louisana politician Attorney General to set the moral tone > of the most corrupt state in the nation. > What did the nurses and doctors ask after four days of hell .. "where were > you". > Folks, FEMA is fake. AG Chas.FOTI makes me ashamed to be as close as Texas > to him. My heart goes out to doctor Anna. At least she showed mercy, > something missing from all the talk and excuses by the people in charge > after Katrina. Houston opened their hearts and their homes to the refugees > but the government of Louisana was missing in action and presumed dead. > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13916867/ > > Richard > > > > ------=_Part_38547_26563783.1153299670560 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
What is FOTI?
 
   Can you give me a personal communication update about what you writeof?
 
    Please.
 
 I do not watch TV or read papers or listen to much radio.
 
        JH

 
On 7/18/06, RC Macaulay <walhalla@cvtv.net> wrote:
Howdy Vorts,
 
 
Seldom do I get so disgusted with government bureaucracy as when I watched the TV news story reporting the indictment of nurses and Dr.Anna Pou for 2nd degree murder. The attorney General of Louisana Chas Foti announced the charges.
The accused supposedly killed elderly patients some FOUR days after the Katrina hurricane struck New Orleans (NOLA).
The TV reporter was lind enough to mention the hospital was without power, water , AC, supplies and had begged for relief.
Leave it to a Louisana politician Attorney General to set the moral tone of the most corrupt state in the nation.
What did the nurses and doctors ask after four days of hell .. "where were you".
Folks, FEMA is fake. AG Chas.FOTI makes me ashamed to be as close as Texas to him. My heart goes out to doctor Anna. At least she showed mercy, something missing from all the talk and excuses by the people in charge after Katrina. Houston opened their hearts and their homes to the refugees but the government of Louisana was missing in action and presumed dead.
Richard
 

 


------=_Part_38547_26563783.1153299670560-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 19 02:30:18 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6J9U4Mv009350; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 02:30:12 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6J9TOBP008916; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 02:29:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 02:29:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=KDgAlEqgt/w+HSegqhW5NQ/DNE+xbj5YPE3pb+jfVhJ/gSDPwDQQWU8wHg9Ln8Sn; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006731992910760 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 03:29:10 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94040b3b2e49e1687cccc9461b336479023350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.128 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69729 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Quartz Rod-Tube One-Stroke Diesel for Jones' Firewater Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII OTOH, Jones, you might borrow from my 1974 patent that generated more laughs than lift. :-) Fred 3,782,352 PRESSURE SENSITIVE FLUID INJECTOR AND POGO STICK UTILIZING SAME "Pogo sticks have been widely enjoyed by both young and old, and are presently still of widespread popularity. In general, pogo sticks include a stick or shaft having two outstanding platform members near the bottom upon which the user may stand. Commonly, pogo sticks also have a telescoping shaft which is usually spring biased outwardly from the bottom so that when the user jumps upon the platform members of the stick, the telescoping shaft is pushed into the stick and the spring compressed. The spring then resiliently recoils to impart upward force upon the stick and the user to enable the user to continue to jump or hop upon the stick along a cycloid or other desired path. " "For example, there are numerous devices in which it is desirable to cause fuel or other fluid to be fed from a reservoir or fluid containing tank into a space having a higher pressure than that of the fluid reservoir, for instance, in ordinary internal combustion engines, pneumatic cylinders and other such applications having a pulsating pressure volume. To date, fluid injectors generally in use require many moving parts to inject the desired amount of fluid. Additionally, the fluid injectors heretofore advanced are mechanically sensitive rather than being pressure sensitive. For example, in an internal combustion engine application, frequently the fuel injectors are sensitive to a mechanical stimulus such as a camshaft or the like, rather than being responsive to the pressure of the chamber into which the fluid is to be injected. " > > > Put a drop of the "activated" water in the small bore quartz tube, > insert quartz rod attached to pre-compressed coil spring > and pull the trigger. > > http://www.quartz.com/quartz.html > > http://www.centuryspring.com/ > > The hot compressed air should cause a flash, > if the water-vapor is activated. > > Send us the pictures. :-) > > Fred > ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

OTOH, Jones, you might borrow from my 1974 patent
that generated more laughs than lift.  :-)
 
Fred
 
3,782,352  PRESSURE SENSITIVE FLUID INJECTOR AND POGO STICK UTILIZING SAME
 
"Pogo sticks have been widely enjoyed by both young and old, and are presently still of widespread popularity. In general, pogo sticks include a stick or shaft having two outstanding platform members near the bottom upon which the user may stand. Commonly, pogo sticks also have a telescoping shaft which is usually spring biased outwardly from the bottom so that when the user jumps upon the platform members of the stick, the telescoping shaft is pushed into the stick and the spring compressed. The spring then resiliently recoils to impart upward force upon the stick and the user to enable the user to continue to jump or hop upon the stick along a cycloid or other desired path. "
"For example, there are numerous devices in which it is desirable to cause fuel or other fluid to be fed from a reservoir or fluid containing tank into a space having a higher pressure than that of the fluid reservoir, for instance, in ordinary internal combustion engines, pneumatic cylinders and other such applications having a pulsating pressure volume. To date, fluid injectors generally in use require many moving parts to inject the desired amount of fluid. Additionally, the fluid injectors heretofore advanced are mechanically sensitive rather than being pressure sensitive. For example, in an internal combustion engine application, frequently the fuel injectors are sensitive to a mechanical stimulus such as a camshaft or the like, rather than being responsive to the pressure of the chamber into which the fluid is to be injected. "
>
>
> Put a drop of the "activated" water in the small bore quartz tube,
> insert quartz rod attached to pre-compressed coil spring
> and pull the trigger.
>
>
>
> The hot compressed air should cause a flash,
> if the water-vapor is activated.
>
> Send us the pictures.   :-)
>
> Fred
>

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 19 03:25:56 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6JAPhMj000770; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 03:25:43 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6JAPfDF000757; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 03:25:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 03:25:40 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=fx8kjgzP/1wMep1a6yCYo1Qfc8XrPNEsHf5fhUDT+RzrrNtrf+2qv0s6/STQGzFK; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006731910252248 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 04:25:22 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9409c44ef84148b3038528fdf65fe327972350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.58 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69730 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Quartz Rod-Tube One-Stroke Diesel for Jones' Firewater Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII At least GM and Snecma motors think it was a good idea. But they haven't jumped onto the Pogo Stick application yet. Fred 4,247,044 & 4,306,680 General Motors (1981) 6,644,031 SNECMA Moteurs (Paris, FR) (2003) http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.htm OTOH, Jones, you might borrow from my 1974 patent that generated more laughs than lift. :-) Fred 3,782,352 PRESSURE SENSITIVE FLUID INJECTOR AND POGO STICK UTILIZING SAME "Pogo sticks have been widely enjoyed by both young and old, and are presently still of widespread popularity. In general, pogo sticks include a stick or shaft having two outstanding platform members near the bottom upon which the user may stand. Commonly, pogo sticks also have a telescoping shaft which is usually spring biased outwardly from the bottom so that when the user jumps upon the platform members of the stick, the telescoping shaft is pushed into the stick and the spring compressed. The spring then resiliently recoils to impart upward force upon the stick and the user to enable the user to continue to jump or hop upon the stick along a cycloid or other desired path. " "For example, there are numerous devices in which it is desirable to cause fuel or other fluid to be fed from a reservoir or fluid containing tank into a space having a higher pressure than that of the fluid reservoir, for instance, in ordinary internal combustion engines, pneumatic cylinders and other such applications having a pulsating pressure volume. To date, fluid injectors generally in use require many moving parts to inject the desired amount of fluid. Additionally, the fluid injectors heretofore advanced are mechanically sensitive rather than being pressure sensitive. For example, in an internal combustion engine application, frequently the fuel injectors are sensitive to a mechanical stimulus such as a camshaft or the like, rather than being responsive to the pressure of the chamber into which the fluid is to be injected. " > > > Put a drop of the "activated" water in the small bore quartz tube, > insert quartz rod attached to pre-compressed coil spring > and pull the trigger. > > http://www.quartz.com/quartz.html > > http://www.centuryspring.com/ > > The hot compressed air should cause a flash, > if the water-vapor is activated. > > Send us the pictures. :-) > > Fred > ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

At least GM and Snecma motors think it was a good idea.
 
But they haven't jumped onto the Pogo Stick application yet.
 
Fred
 
4,247,044 & 4,306,680  General Motors (1981)
 
6,644,031 SNECMA Moteurs (Paris, FR)  (2003)
 
 
OTOH, Jones, you might borrow from my 1974 patent
that generated more laughs than lift.  :-)
 
Fred
 
3,782,352  PRESSURE SENSITIVE FLUID INJECTOR AND POGO STICK UTILIZING SAME
 
"Pogo sticks have been widely enjoyed by both young and old, and are presently still of widespread popularity. In general, pogo sticks include a stick or shaft having two outstanding platform members near the bottom upon which the user may stand. Commonly, pogo sticks also have a telescoping shaft which is usually spring biased outwardly from the bottom so that when the user jumps upon the platform members of the stick, the telescoping shaft is pushed into the stick and the spring compressed. The spring then resiliently recoils to impart upward force upon the stick and the user to enable the user to continue to jump or hop upon the stick along a cycloid or other desired path. "
"For example, there are numerous devices in which it is desirable to cause fuel or other fluid to be fed from a reservoir or fluid containing tank into a space having a higher pressure than that of the fluid reservoir, for instance, in ordinary internal combustion engines, pneumatic cylinders and other such applications having a pulsating pressure volume. To date, fluid injectors generally in use require many moving parts to inject the desired amount of fluid. Additionally, the fluid injectors heretofore advanced are mechanically sensitive rather than being pressure sensitive. For example, in an internal combustion engine application, frequently the fuel injectors are sensitive to a mechanical stimulus such as a camshaft or the like, rather than being responsive to the pressure of the chamber into which the fluid is to be injected. "
>
>
> Put a drop of the "activated" water in the small bore quartz tube,
> insert quartz rod attached to pre-compressed coil spring
> and pull the trigger.
>
>
>
> The hot compressed air should cause a flash,
> if the water-vapor is activated.
>
> Send us the pictures.   :-)
>
> Fred
>
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 19 04:14:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6JBDkIn023912; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 04:13:47 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6JBDiJo023895; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 04:13:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 04:13:44 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=o9PiBeEiRYpYvbg5ipdDXF6+3/WecUUSW/4s0ls09ECOoetTKXvnwxqBap88r5RbNYBIgQaHpWM5HNIWaSoK7iDNUhWIpib1/scKZXrJKWSTFoYarVUuUsaRkQ+gIWvgcGAIYY09EGiHsd48HsXXDx1csCN78HERU9R0ARtcNBw= ; Message-ID: <20060719111342.16609.qmail web33303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 04:13:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Arnold To: vortex-l eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <20060718112729.14386.qmail web33308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1407718347-1153307622=:13801" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <6db6cC.A.P1F.oPhvEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69731 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Dense Plasma Focus Fusion Status: O X-Status: --0-1407718347-1153307622=:13801 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Does this sound familiar? Chris Arnold Upcoming speaker at COFE II George Miley, Professor of Nuclear and Electrical Engineering at the University of Illinois and Fusion Studies Lab Director (http://fsl.ne.uiuc.edu) from 1975 to the present, has also been a consultant for Lawrence Livermore Laboratory, Livermore, CA • Argonne National Laboratory, Fusion Power Division • Los Alamos National Laboratory • Dept. of Energy, Idaho Operations Office • and Clean Energy Technologies. Recently, George has been researching plasma focus fusion, a new and exciting form of hot fusion and presented the results at STAIF, the Space Technologies Applications Information Forum. Paul Koloc and Eric Lerner will also join a panel discussion with George on the expectations for this energy technology. --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. --0-1407718347-1153307622=:13801 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Does this sound familiar?
Chris Arnold
 
Upcoming speaker at COFE II
 
George Miley, Professor of Nuclear and Electrical Engineering at the University of Illinois and Fusion Studies Lab Director (http://fsl.ne.uiuc.edu) from 1975 to the present, has also been a consultant for Lawrence Livermore Laboratory, Livermore, CA • Argonne National Laboratory, Fusion Power Division • Los Alamos National Laboratory • Dept. of Energy, Idaho Operations Office • and Clean Energy Technologies. Recently, George has been researching plasma focus fusion, a new and exciting form of hot fusion and presented the results at STAIF, the Space Technologies Applications Information Forum. Paul Koloc and Eric Lerner will also join a panel discussion with George on the expectations for this energy technology.

How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. --0-1407718347-1153307622=:13801-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 19 05:44:31 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6JCiAA5006307; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 05:44:11 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6JChTQ0005615; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 05:43:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 05:43:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=EDrFSfskFRHc2UpH/OO/rj03CxS3ajS/a7AaY9ydxUqEqW5o4B40D8KzRZjIH4+D; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220067319124313829 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 06:43:13 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940a73aff7511a3ca1c5262795b9fff1f4b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.129 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69732 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Stacked Washer Electrolyzer in a Mayo Jar Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII A metal jar lid can serve as the anode to complete the circuit for a stack of insulator-spaced stainless steel fender washers insulated from the threaded rod feeding current to inside end plate. A gas bleeder tube can also pass through the lid. Balloons on the gas bleed tubes worked nicely on our 12 plate electrolyzer. A 50 cc livestock syringe makes a good vacuum pump. Poor Barbara has probably seen lots of those lately. :-( Fred http://www.barnhillbolt.com/specs/WasherFlatFender.htm http://www.barnhillbolt.com/index.php?root=menu&level=&menu=101&catid=-1&custid=748308167 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

A metal jar lid can serve as the anode to complete the circuit for
a stack of insulator-spaced stainless steel fender washers insulated from the
threaded rod feeding current to inside end plate.
A gas bleeder tube can also pass through the lid.
Balloons on the gas bleed tubes worked nicely on our
12 plate electrolyzer.
A 50 cc livestock syringe makes a good vacuum pump. 
 
Poor Barbara has probably seen lots of those lately.  :-(
 
Fred
 
 
 
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 19 07:02:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6JE24FO011616; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 07:02:04 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6JE21aY011517; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 07:02:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 07:02:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-CVTV-Spamfilter: Scanned X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Virus-Scanned: by McAfee Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <000e01c6ab3b$dfa94370$8f027841 xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: References: <001201c6aad4$c436eb40$72037841 xptower> Subject: Re: [VO]:OT: Oh! NOLA Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:01:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01C6AB11.F632DCC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: <_8B-_D.A.vzC.YtjvEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69733 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C6AB11.F632DCC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Howdy john, Click on the link below, Richard ----- Original Message -----=20 From: john herman=20 To: vortex-l eskimo.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 4:01 AM Subject: Re: [VO]:OT: Oh! NOLA What is FOTI? Can you give me a personal communication update about what you = writeof? Please. I do not watch TV or read papers or listen to much radio. JH =20 On 7/18/06, RC Macaulay wrote:=20 Howdy Vorts, Seldom do I get so disgusted with government bureaucracy as when I = watched the TV news story reporting the indictment of nurses and Dr.Anna = Pou for 2nd degree murder. The attorney General of Louisana Chas Foti = announced the charges.=20 The accused supposedly killed elderly patients some FOUR days after = the Katrina hurricane struck New Orleans (NOLA). The TV reporter was lind enough to mention the hospital was without = power, water , AC, supplies and had begged for relief. Leave it to a Louisana politician Attorney General to set the moral = tone of the most corrupt state in the nation. What did the nurses and doctors ask after four days of hell .. = "where were you". Folks, FEMA is fake. AG Chas.FOTI makes me ashamed to be as close as = Texas to him. My heart goes out to doctor Anna. At least she showed = mercy, something missing from all the talk and excuses by the people in = charge after Katrina. Houston opened their hearts and their homes to the = refugees but the government of Louisana was missing in action and = presumed dead.=20 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13916867/ =20 Richard ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C6AB11.F632DCC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Howdy john,
Click on the link below,
Richard
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 john herman=20
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 = 4:01=20 AM
Subject: Re: [VO]:OT: Oh! = NOLA

What is FOTI?
 
   Can you give me a personal communication update = about what=20 you writeof?
 
    Please.
 
 I do not watch TV or read papers or listen to much = radio.
 
        JH

 
On 7/18/06, RC=20 Macaulay <walhalla@cvtv.net>=20 wrote:=20
Howdy Vorts,
 
 
Seldom do I get so disgusted with government bureaucracy as = when I=20 watched the TV news story reporting the indictment of nurses = and=20 Dr.Anna Pou for 2nd degree murder. The attorney General of Louisana = Chas=20 Foti announced the charges.
The accused supposedly killed elderly patients some FOUR days = after the=20 Katrina hurricane struck New Orleans (NOLA).
The TV reporter was lind enough to mention the hospital was = without=20 power, water , AC, supplies and had begged for relief.
Leave it to a Louisana politician Attorney General to set the = moral=20 tone of the most corrupt state in the nation.
What did the nurses and doctors ask after four days of hell .. = "where=20 were you".
Folks, FEMA is fake. AG Chas.FOTI makes me ashamed to be = as close=20 as Texas to him. My heart goes out to doctor Anna. At least she = showed=20 mercy, something missing from all the talk and excuses by the people = in=20 charge after Katrina. Houston opened their hearts and their = homes to=20 the refugees but the government of Louisana was missing in action = and=20 presumed dead.
=
Richard
 
=

 


------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C6AB11.F632DCC0-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 19 07:13:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6JECdIs018380; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 07:12:40 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6JECaxj018359; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 07:12:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 07:12:36 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=pacbell.net; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Dos/0JOgmrSvCIJje1WoIXJAiCySYpNVHpx96PWdfzCdILqOlnOjoQmr00+GiaSCNbqG0LLvay02g7jDwGW73Smlxi1COGEKx7ffBy2ddHyLl1svmXSTAIc2a9dQrYNsNwdTkfsfAIYF19Naw2Z94oyVugHi5Zq278156u52G7s= ; Message-ID: <20060719141234.45417.qmail web82708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 07:12:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Jones Beene To: fjsparber earthlink.net, vortex-l In-Reply-To: <410-22006731992910760 earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69734 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Quartz Rod-Tube One-Stroke Diesel for Jones' Firewater Status: O X-Status: --- Fred, I had forgotten about your old Pogo Stick Patent! The so-called "fire-water" seems to requre an electric field before becoming useful. It will not support a flame. A preliminary test in a "HydroBooster" (small electolyzer mounted in a car) like this one: http://waterpoweredcar.com/hydrobooster.html shows that as a substitue for untreated water, it gives significantly more boost - although not even close to self-power. We suspect that it might be able to nearly double the gas mileage of an old Ford V-6. The HydroBooster alone will increase the mileage by about 20% so this is very significant - considering how little electrical power is used to charge the water. The downside is that it takes a long time. More later, Jones Why isn't Detroit looking into this in a professional way ??? > OTOH, Jones, you might borrow from my 1974 patent > that generated more laughs than lift. :-) > > Fred > > 3,782,352 PRESSURE SENSITIVE FLUID INJECTOR AND > POGO STICK UTILIZING SAME > > "Pogo sticks have been widely enjoyed by both young > and old, and are presently still of widespread > popularity. In general, pogo sticks include a stick > or shaft having two outstanding platform members > near the bottom upon which the user may stand. > Commonly, pogo sticks also have a telescoping shaft > which is usually spring biased outwardly from the > bottom so that when the user jumps upon the platform > members of the stick, the telescoping shaft is > pushed into the stick and the spring compressed. The > spring then resiliently recoils to impart upward > force upon the stick and the user to enable the user > to continue to jump or hop upon the stick along a > cycloid or other desired path. " > > "For example, there are numerous devices in which it > is desirable to cause fuel or other fluid to be fed > from a reservoir or fluid containing tank into a > space having a higher pressure than that of the > fluid reservoir, for instance, in ordinary internal > combustion engines, pneumatic cylinders and other > such applications having a pulsating pressure > volume. To date, fluid injectors generally in use > require many moving parts to inject the desired > amount of fluid. Additionally, the fluid injectors > heretofore advanced are mechanically sensitive > rather than being pressure sensitive. For example, > in an internal combustion engine application, > frequently the fuel injectors are sensitive to a > mechanical stimulus such as a camshaft or the like, > rather than being responsive to the pressure of the > chamber into which the fluid is to be injected. " > > > > > > Put a drop of the "activated" water in the small > bore quartz tube, > > insert quartz rod attached to pre-compressed coil > spring > > and pull the trigger. > > > > http://www.quartz.com/quartz.html > > > > http://www.centuryspring.com/ > > > > The hot compressed air should cause a flash, > > if the water-vapor is activated. > > > > Send us the pictures. :-) > > > > Fred > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 19 07:23:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6JENINE025661; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 07:23:23 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6JENGgV025639; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 07:23:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 07:23:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <016101c6ab3c$15add8a0$3800a8c0 zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <00d001c6a9e4$021c3b00$6401a8c0@NuDell> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 16:03:17 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6JENAs5025449 Resent-Message-ID: <2idR1.A.fQG.TBkvEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69735 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: BAM Status: O X-Status: Jones (please kindly try to make your posts shorter!) I was not thinking of H2 nanobubbles but of _dissoved_ H2 AND O2 (no bubbles at all, not even pico or femto). An easy way to eliminate my hypothesis would be to bubble the gases from an electrolyzer through untreated water and see if it flashes in the MWO in the same manner as your treated water. Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 11:00 PM Subject: [Vo]: Re: BAM > Michel, > > Still not getting your postings to vortex, but I have been > checking the archives periodically as my ISP filter removes about > 10% of any newsgroup messages anyway, and all of yours. > > These ISP filters are supposed to "learn" what constitutes "Spam," > but I am getting more of that than ever before... Ha! so much for > "artificial intelligence." > > My apology for the hasty original posting. The background is this: > there has been a lot of un-scientific anecdote recently about the > possibility of using treated-water in an internal combustion > engine - especially anecdote coming from Australia, where > marvelous claims have been made. > > If true, there are a few ways to explain what could be going on - > in addition to deliberate fraud - which seems unlikely given the > number of reports and lack of a financial motive. But in an effort > to find some initial or probative evidence of an anomaly, this > simple experiment materialized, and it would be a mistake to read > too much into it. The idea is that "nanobubbles" form and store > electrical charge. There are scientific citation in support of > part of this premise - given in the previous postings. These > nanobubbles could probably NOT store H2 itself - as you suggest - > due to its volatility and the fact that there was force > circulation due to the container being placed over a large magnet. > > The power supply for this simple experiment was a ubiquitous black > cube 6 v. DC wall transformer. It was drawing ~150 milliamps when > tested. I made no effort to datalog P-in. Perhaps someone better > equipped can do a better job with the details in the future, if > the nanobubble idea turns out to be tenable. Basically I was > trying to avoid water-splitting and just looking to see if there > was anything obvious or robust going-on with a long pre-charging > period of water, but using a Teflon-coated (hydrophobic) anode. > > There could be something worth further investigation here, and > hopefully the next time I post on this, it will be a little better > documented. However, the water in this situation never gets to the > point of supporting a flame, which is seen in one of the videos > from Australia. > > Furthermore, I do not think that the effect of explosive flashing, > following microwave irradiation, is due to retained H2 gas. And I > did make an effort to test 3% HOOH in the same way. I found that > peroxide is slower to boil-off than tap water, and never flashes. > > Tap water (eau d'municipal ?) normally boils instead of flashing > in the microwave, but one sample did flash to steam (one time out > in ten trials), whereas the treated water always flashed, never > giving it time to boil, and always flashes much faster than the > boiling away period of either tap water or HOOH. Once it was > instantaneous follwong the oven coming on. That is the limit of > this simple experiment. > > The "flash" itself is violent and totally clears the container, > but there is no assurance that all of the 1 ml of water per test, > was actually converted to vapor by phase-change - since as we > know - a flash of steam will always carry away some percentage of > atomized water, which has not undergone phase-change. > > But - the bottom line is that an intriguing possibility exists > here (charged nanobubbles) for expalin the prior reports - or > which could be put to use otherwise. Certainly it might help to > explain at least part of the anecdotes which have been circulating > about "waterfuel". > > Hope that is a little clearer. > > Jones > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 19 08:14:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6JFDSmI019159; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 08:13:29 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6JFDOOp019117; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 08:13:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 08:13:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=QFG5acT74toG82/XYpzYYKpGFLk/0BMMaqrJpdtrvYR/DDcNUrgFIuCxrzd7i+2w; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006731915131331 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]: Re: Quartz Rod-Tube One-Stroke Diesel for Jones' Firewater Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:13:01 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940615ca1febcc0d8dfe042edc1a6998649350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.162 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69736 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > [Original Message] > From: Jones Beene > > --- Fred, > > The so-called "fire-water" seems to require an electric > field before becoming useful. It will not support a > flame. A preliminary test in a "HydroBooster" (small > electrolyzer mounted in a car) like this one: > Fine. Use an ignition coil or capacitor and metal rods in the small bore quartz tube, they should spark when they get close enough on the "compression" stroke, the trapped air can get up to over 1000 K due to compression. If it will work in an ICE, it has to work on the bench. This allows you to do simple calorimetry too. Fred > > http://waterpoweredcar.com/hydrobooster.html > > shows that as a substitute for untreated water, it > gives significantly more boost - although not even > close to self-power. We suspect that it might be able > to nearly double the gas mileage of an old Ford V-6. > > The HydroBooster alone will increase the mileage by > about 20% so this is very significant - considering > how little electrical power is used to charge the > water. The downside is that it takes a long time. > > More later, > > Jones > > Why isn't Detroit looking into this in a professional > way ??? > > > > > OTOH, Jones, you might borrow from my 1974 patent > > that generated more laughs than lift. :-) > > > > Fred > > > > 3,782,352 PRESSURE SENSITIVE FLUID INJECTOR AND > > POGO STICK UTILIZING SAME > > > > "Pogo sticks have been widely enjoyed by both young > > and old, and are presently still of widespread > > popularity. In general, pogo sticks include a stick > > or shaft having two outstanding platform members > > near the bottom upon which the user may stand. > > Commonly, pogo sticks also have a telescoping shaft > > which is usually spring biased outwardly from the > > bottom so that when the user jumps upon the platform > > members of the stick, the telescoping shaft is > > pushed into the stick and the spring compressed. The > > spring then resiliently recoils to impart upward > > force upon the stick and the user to enable the user > > to continue to jump or hop upon the stick along a > > cycloid or other desired path. " > > > > "For example, there are numerous devices in which it > > is desirable to cause fuel or other fluid to be fed > > from a reservoir or fluid containing tank into a > > space having a higher pressure than that of the > > fluid reservoir, for instance, in ordinary internal > > combustion engines, pneumatic cylinders and other > > such applications having a pulsating pressure > > volume. To date, fluid injectors generally in use > > require many moving parts to inject the desired > > amount of fluid. Additionally, the fluid injectors > > heretofore advanced are mechanically sensitive > > rather than being pressure sensitive. For example, > > in an internal combustion engine application, > > frequently the fuel injectors are sensitive to a > > mechanical stimulus such as a camshaft or the like, > > rather than being responsive to the pressure of the > > chamber into which the fluid is to be injected. " > > > > > > > > > Put a drop of the "activated" water in the small > > bore quartz tube, > > > insert quartz rod attached to pre-compressed coil > > spring > > > and pull the trigger. > > > > > > http://www.quartz.com/quartz.html > > > > > > http://www.centuryspring.com/ > > > > > > The hot compressed air should cause a flash, > > > if the water-vapor is activated. > > > > > > Send us the pictures. :-) > > > > > > Fred > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 19 08:46:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6JFkVoa009028; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 08:46:32 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6JFkT0M009004; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 08:46:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 08:46:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Reply-To: From: "John Steck" To: Subject: RE: [Vo]: Re: BAM Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 10:46:17 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <016101c6ab3c$15add8a0$3800a8c0 zothan> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Importance: Normal X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69737 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: That's like asking the sun to dim a little cause it's too bright in the morning... 8^) -j -----Original Message----- From: Michel Jullian [mailto:mj exbang.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 9:03 AM To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: BAM Jones (please kindly try to make your posts shorter!) I was not thinking of H2 nanobubbles but of _dissoved_ H2 AND O2 (no bubbles at all, not even pico or femto). An easy way to eliminate my hypothesis would be to bubble the gases from an electrolyzer through untreated water and see if it flashes in the MWO in the same manner as your treated water. Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 11:00 PM Subject: [Vo]: Re: BAM > Michel, > > Still not getting your postings to vortex, but I have been > checking the archives periodically as my ISP filter removes about > 10% of any newsgroup messages anyway, and all of yours. > > These ISP filters are supposed to "learn" what constitutes "Spam," > but I am getting more of that than ever before... Ha! so much for > "artificial intelligence." > > My apology for the hasty original posting. The background is this: > there has been a lot of un-scientific anecdote recently about the > possibility of using treated-water in an internal combustion > engine - especially anecdote coming from Australia, where > marvelous claims have been made. > > If true, there are a few ways to explain what could be going on - > in addition to deliberate fraud - which seems unlikely given the > number of reports and lack of a financial motive. But in an effort > to find some initial or probative evidence of an anomaly, this > simple experiment materialized, and it would be a mistake to read > too much into it. The idea is that "nanobubbles" form and store > electrical charge. There are scientific citation in support of > part of this premise - given in the previous postings. These > nanobubbles could probably NOT store H2 itself - as you suggest - > due to its volatility and the fact that there was force > circulation due to the container being placed over a large magnet. > > The power supply for this simple experiment was a ubiquitous black > cube 6 v. DC wall transformer. It was drawing ~150 milliamps when > tested. I made no effort to datalog P-in. Perhaps someone better > equipped can do a better job with the details in the future, if > the nanobubble idea turns out to be tenable. Basically I was > trying to avoid water-splitting and just looking to see if there > was anything obvious or robust going-on with a long pre-charging > period of water, but using a Teflon-coated (hydrophobic) anode. > > There could be something worth further investigation here, and > hopefully the next time I post on this, it will be a little better > documented. However, the water in this situation never gets to the > point of supporting a flame, which is seen in one of the videos > from Australia. > > Furthermore, I do not think that the effect of explosive flashing, > following microwave irradiation, is due to retained H2 gas. And I > did make an effort to test 3% HOOH in the same way. I found that > peroxide is slower to boil-off than tap water, and never flashes. > > Tap water (eau d'municipal ?) normally boils instead of flashing > in the microwave, but one sample did flash to steam (one time out > in ten trials), whereas the treated water always flashed, never > giving it time to boil, and always flashes much faster than the > boiling away period of either tap water or HOOH. Once it was > instantaneous follwong the oven coming on. That is the limit of > this simple experiment. > > The "flash" itself is violent and totally clears the container, > but there is no assurance that all of the 1 ml of water per test, > was actually converted to vapor by phase-change - since as we > know - a flash of steam will always carry away some percentage of > atomized water, which has not undergone phase-change. > > But - the bottom line is that an intriguing possibility exists > here (charged nanobubbles) for expalin the prior reports - or > which could be put to use otherwise. Certainly it might help to > explain at least part of the anecdotes which have been circulating > about "waterfuel". > > Hope that is a little clearer. > > Jones > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 19 08:54:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6JFrjdM013313; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 08:53:46 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6JFrgTH013285; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 08:53:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 08:53:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Q1AjB6R+Hg8uiEDa1c5S/FW7mvF72FLEqSJ5iRYagXndTz1RlI9LaZuGzTrfRo5M; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006731915532462 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:53:24 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9407f2296e110ad4812558b7f7cca2230e6350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.165.138 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69738 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Quartz Rod-Tube One-Stroke Diesel for Jones' Firewater Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII This storable calculator shows 1026 K at 22:1 compression ratio in a diesel. http://members.aol.com/engware/calc3.htm You cannot light diesel fuel with a match either, unless you heat it to the flash point. I used a bit of methanol as a primer, but burned off my eyelashes, eyebrows, pompadour, and nose hair when I was putting the lid on the "empty" one-gallon methanol can in the sunlight. With a very red singed face I looked kind of strange. I had to use eyebrow pencil and mascara for days after. Fred >> >> [Original Message] >> From: Jones Beene >> >> --- Fred, >> >> The so-called "fire-water" seems to require an electric >> field before becoming useful. It will not support a >> flame. A preliminary test in a "HydroBooster" (small >> electrolyzer mounted in a car) like this one: >> > > Fine. Use an ignition coil or capacitor and metal rods in > the small bore quartz tube, they should spark when they > get close enough on the "compression" stroke, the > trapped air can get up to over 1000 K due to compression. > > If it will work in an ICE, it has to work on the bench. > > This allows you to do simple calorimetry too. > > Fred > ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
This storable calculator shows 1026 K at 22:1 compression
ratio in a diesel.
 
 
You cannot light diesel fuel with a match either, unless
you heat it to the flash point. I used a bit of methanol
as a primer, but burned off my eyelashes, eyebrows,
pompadour, and nose hair when I was putting the lid on
the "empty" one-gallon methanol can in the sunlight.
With a very red singed face I looked kind of strange.
 
I had to use eyebrow pencil and mascara for days after.
 
Fred
 
>>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Jones Beene
>>
>> --- Fred,
>>
>> The so-called "fire-water" seems to require an electric
>> field before becoming useful. It will not support a
>> flame. A preliminary test in a "HydroBooster" (small
>> electrolyzer mounted in a car) like this one:
>>
>
> Fine. Use an ignition coil or capacitor and metal rods in
> the small bore quartz tube, they should spark when they
> get close enough on the "compression" stroke, the
> trapped air can get up to over 1000 K due to compression.
>
> If it will work in an ICE, it has to work on the bench.
>
> This allows you to do simple calorimetry too.
>
> Fred
>
 
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 19 09:17:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6JGHHVE025993; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:17:18 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6JGHEAA025955; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:17:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:17:13 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=pacbell.net; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=4obUoD+LaeG2njM+ekOv02o4ks8aVwGkuEEJ3z6yJ7dDMeoYw5/2rwByCfqvWYylZ7zdPJhziNWVzKuLAaxr2tZT3dtlLo5HMmxx9RBsAk4HwDY9uf3gbXIstTX9EBy7mrLVLw64RqEOKQ/1amX+hR/IcUZsOUk1RSGYuF0qWvA= ; Message-ID: <20060719161711.49154.qmail web82707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:17:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Jones Beene To: johnsteck tetrahelix.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69739 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: RE: BAM Status: O X-Status: -- Hey John, You are an ICE expert, no? Are you not tempted to try a HydroBooster, with or without treated water? Jones BTW Michel - the solubility of H2 in H2O is very low: See item 33 on this page: http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/explan4.html Had not Michel asked for short posts, I would have given the executive summary of that page ;-) --- John Steck wrote: > That's like asking the sun to dim a little cause > it's too bright in the > morning... 8^) > -----Original Message----- > From: Michel Jullian > Jones (please kindly try to make your posts > shorter!) I was not thinking of > H2 nanobubbles but of _dissoved_ H2 AND O2 (no > bubbles at all, not even pico > or femto). From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 19 09:50:28 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6JGo7sp011871; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:50:12 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6JGgUQS007076; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:42:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:42:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <01ba01c6ab52$4ded67b0$3800a8c0 zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <20060719161711.49154.qmail web82707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 18:41:49 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6JGgQro007027 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69740 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: BAM Status: O X-Status: Jones Beene wrote: (concisely ;-) > BTW Michel - the solubility of H2 in H2O is very low: > See item 33 on this page: > > http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/explan4.html I found nothing of the sort in this item, anyway whatever the exact value is, it could be enough to provoke/catalyze the flashing, the test I suggested would help eliminate this prosaic possibility. Michel P.S. Kindly answer this someone so Jones gets it. > > Had not Michel asked for short posts, I would have > given the executive summary of that page ;-) > > > --- John Steck wrote: > >> That's like asking the sun to dim a little cause >> it's too bright in the >> morning... 8^) > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Michel Jullian > >> Jones (please kindly try to make your posts >> shorter!) I was not thinking of >> H2 nanobubbles but of _dissoved_ H2 AND O2 (no >> bubbles at all, not even pico >> or femto). > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 19 09:53:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6JGqZZN013188; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:52:36 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6JGqVk1013143; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:52:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:52:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=U0pkWZ3ff+7nCW3Fqh5eUhymibsIy2ncB7esvf0leo0z9jlYRdfApykb0UWIGo26; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220067319165211231 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]: Re: BAM Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 10:52:11 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940b708aa9965201ab898e6bf399d7516f1350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.165.216 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69741 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Done. http://wulfenite.fandm.edu/Data%20/Table_16.html Hydrogen 0.00016 Grams of gas dissolved in 100 g of water when the total pressure above the solution is 1 atm. > [Original Message] > From: Michel Jullian > To: > Date: 7/19/2006 10:43:11 AM > Subject: [Vo]: Re: BAM > > Jones Beene wrote: (concisely ;-) > > > BTW Michel - the solubility of H2 in H2O is very low: > > See item 33 on this page: > > > > http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/explan4.html > > I found nothing of the sort in this item, anyway whatever the exact value is, it could be enough to provoke/catalyze the flashing, the test I suggested would help eliminate this prosaic possibility. > > Michel > > P.S. Kindly answer this someone so Jones gets it. > > > > > Had not Michel asked for short posts, I would have > > given the executive summary of that page ;-) > > > > > > --- John Steck wrote: > > > >> That's like asking the sun to dim a little cause > >> it's too bright in the > >> morning... 8^) > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Michel Jullian > > > >> Jones (please kindly try to make your posts > >> shorter!) I was not thinking of > >> H2 nanobubbles but of _dissoved_ H2 AND O2 (no > >> bubbles at all, not even pico > >> or femto). > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 19 10:48:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6JHLJXC025689; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 10:21:19 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6JHLGtx025658; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 10:21:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 10:21:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=fq0P5pP/CojgCE74w83MtgdFyGPV2WRDyYfJvkdvav/sDDt1M/6dnm0k2eJxekMf; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200673191782876 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: RE: [Vo]: Re: BAM Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:08:28 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9400b85374fea28ccd78f2159f5c1528e50350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.90 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69742 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII http://wulfenite.fandm.edu/Data%20/Table_16.html Hydrogen 0.00016 Grams of gas dissolved in 100 g of water when the total pressure above the solution is 1 atm. > [Original Message] > From: Michel Jullian > To: > Date: 7/19/2006 10:43:11 AM > Subject: [Vo]: Re: BAM > > Jones Beene wrote: (concisely ;-) > > > BTW Michel - the solubility of H2 in H2O is very low: > > See item 33 on this page: > > > > http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/explan4.html > > I found nothing of the sort in this item, anyway whatever the exact value is, it could be enough to provoke/catalyze the flashing, the test I suggested would help eliminate this prosaic possibility. > Based on the values given 1.6E-6 grams H2 per gram H2O is 4.82E17 H2 molecules or 0.018 atm or 13.6 Torr in a volume of 1 cc. Fred > > Michel ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

 
 
Hydrogen 0.00016 Grams of gas dissolved in 100 g of water when the total
pressure above the solution is 1 atm.
 
> [Original Message]
> From: Michel Jullian <mj@exbang.com>
> Date: 7/19/2006 10:43:11 AM
> Subject: [Vo]: Re: BAM
>
> Jones Beene wrote: (concisely ;-)
>
> > BTW Michel - the solubility of H2 in H2O is very low:
> > See item 33 on this page:
> >
>
> I found nothing of the sort in this item, anyway whatever the exact value
is, it could be enough to provoke/catalyze the flashing, the test I
suggested would help eliminate this prosaic possibility.
>
Based on the values given 1.6E-6 grams H2 per gram H2O is 4.82E17
H2 molecules or 0.018 atm or 13.6 Torr in a volume of 1 cc.
 
Fred
>
> Michel
 
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 19 11:03:56 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6JI3Sjw018571; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:03:29 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6JI3Mt2018512; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:03:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:03:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:mime-version:content-type; b=VJQE5mjPgoOdYBsP41uiUOSjXw35oeDfWrpHZC2Tqu2oPPLs1daR9o7wHWco4jGPeeMQ7LLGbyutE+B/Xgp1vq0qWsukkr5HHF0CdQEfeFrWWM5MmihohFuVXMreBJe2UAJ4xGmWMrrTogi6YFsyXxuizKIN5jjcH9r/UneA9R4= Message-ID: Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 13:52:50 -0400 From: "john herman" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Cc: johnsteck tetrahelix.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_48155_9175838.1153331570452" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69743 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: What is "bam" BAM Please Status: O X-Status: ------=_Part_48155_9175838.1153331570452 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Vo., On 7/19/06, Jones Beene wrote: > > -- Hey John, > > You are an ICE expert, no? Which what John? ICE??? ------=_Part_48155_9175838.1153331570452 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Vo.,

On 7/19/06, Jones Beene <jonesb9@pacbell.net> wrote:
-- Hey John,

You are an ICE expert, no?
 
 
   Which what John?  ICE???

 
------=_Part_48155_9175838.1153331570452-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 19 11:06:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6JI5wNS020237; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:05:58 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6JI5txF020198; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:05:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:05:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060719180552489.0BE571C000E8 mwinf3001.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060719180551.009a6ac4 pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 19:05:51 +0100 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Grimer Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6JI5qMT020159 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69744 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: For Joe Cell Lovers 8-) Status: O X-Status: I've managed to get hold of F. Frank's "Polywater" for the bargain price of $2. 8-) On page 7 of the first chapter there is the following passage which is of considerable relevance to Joe Cell Lovers and fellow travellers who have the laudable ambition of discovering the secret of how water can be used as fuel. ==================================================== FELIX FRANKS, Polywater. The MIT Press, 1982. ---------------------------------------------------- Let us look at some quite basic physical properties. There is, for instance, a rule of thumb that the boiling point of a liquid is related to the size of its constituent molecules. In other words, the smaller the molecules the lower the boiling point A comparison of H2O with substances having the same molecular size suggests that water should boil at - 93°C and that it should freeze only a few degrees below that temperature. It is also well known that most substances are denser in the solid than in the liquid state, but it is equally well known that ice floats on water - that is, the freezing of water is accompanied by a bulk expansion. Again, every school child learns about the maximum density of water at 4°C, but what is not known is the mechanism whereby a liquid can contract when it is heated. The ecological consequences of this density maximum are manifest. Freezing of rivers and lakes takes place from the surface downward, thus allowing life below the insulating ice layer to continue undisturbed by severe climatic fluctuations. Much more significant even than the well-publicized density maximum is the abnormally high specific heat of water. Textbooks state that the specific heat of a substance is the amount of energy required to raise the temperature of one gram of the substance by 1°. There is also the rule of thumb that, like the boiling point, the specific heat of a liquid is related to the size of its molecules, and yet another rule states that the specific heat of a solid is higher than that of the same substance in the liquid state. We shall see that for water all these rules, and many more, are overturned The specific heat of liquid water is 1 calorie per gram for each degree rise in temperature For alcohol the figure is 0.5 calorie, yet the alcohol molecule is three times larger than that of water. On the other hand, when water freezes, its specific heat drops to half the liquid value. All this means that when energy is supplied to liquid water only half of it is used to raise the temperature; the remainder is stored away in the bulk of the liquid. The ecological implications are staggering. Warm ocean currents, such as the Gulf Stream, move slowly from a region of tropical climate towards the cold regions of the Arctic and the Antarctic, all the while losing heat to the atmosphere. The scale of this heat loss is not generally realized. Every hour the Gulf Stream releases stored-up energy to the air equivalent to that generated by the combustion of some 200 billion tons of coal-about two-thirds of the world's annual coal production. In other words, the high specific heat of water enables the oceans to absorb solar energy and act as vast energy reservoirs. As the water masses move slowly to regions of lower temperature, this energy is gradually liberated in the form of heat, a process which is mainly responsible for ensuring a temperate climate, free from violent fluctuations. This unique feature of water has provided Earth with an environment suitable for the development and maintenance of life. These few physical properties serve to demonstrate that water is anything but a typical liquid. They could be supplemented, because there is hardly a property of water that could be called normal. The main reason for emphasizing water's melting and boiling points, density, and specific heat is that these were the properties that first convinced Soviet scientists that they were dealing with a very strange new spe............ ==================================================== Consider this very telling paragraph: -------------------------------- "All this means that when energy is supplied to liquid water only half of it is used to raise the temperature; the remainder is stored away in the bulk of the liquid." -------------------------------- But from a structural material point of view the inverted temperature density curve, with its maximum stress point (strength) at 4°C energy has been put into the material by cooling. How can one reconcile this insight with the above quote. On the one hand energy is being put in as the temperature is raised, one the other energy is being put in as the water is being compressed. The key to understanding is to recognise that in terms of Di-Phase Theory the SOLID PHASE is in a state of compression and the FLUID PHASE is in a state of tension. For simplicity, think of the water as a collection of struts in compression and ties in tension. Now one can visualise a loading regime which increases the tension in the ties and the compression in the struts. The energy required to compress such a structure will be the difference between the energy put in to the compression of the struts and the energy given out by the expansion of the ties. With water it is now clear to me that the 4°C point it where the energy given up by the ties is equal to the energy input to the struts. The 0°C point is where the stored energy in the struts is offloaded into the ties which leads to the collapse of the water structure into ice. But what about the other boundary? What about the boiling point? If we run the film the other way then energy is being used to compress the ties to the point where they have no tension and the struts just fall apart. And that's quite enough inside gen for one post. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 19 11:16:14 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6JIFrEK026130; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:15:54 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6JIFklh026045; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:15:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:15:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <002001c6ab5f$55a4e2f0$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <410-220067319165211231 earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: BAM Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:15:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69745 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Messages ----- From: Frederick Sparber & Michel Jullian > http://wulfenite.fandm.edu/Data%20/Table_16.html > Hydrogen 0.00016 Grams of gas dissolved in 100 g of water when > the total > pressure above the solution is 1 atm. >> From: MJ: > anyway whatever the exact value > is, it could be enough to provoke/catalyze the flashing, the > test I > suggested would help eliminate this prosaic possibility. Well Michel is correct to the extent that even this small amount of H2 could provoke/catalyze some (or all) of the flashing. I am not convinced that this explanation is any more prosaic than enhanced charge-stability, however. The reason for H2 being so important is covered in #36 of the previous site: http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/explan4.html which relates to ion-mobility. For hydrogen this is EXTRAORDINARY. However that very same ion-mobility also explains why the HydroBooster itself is effective in the first place -despite taking energy from the alternator of the vehicle. The main point is we are going *beyond* thermodynamic explanations (arguably). The (hydronium --> nascent hydrogen) ion mobility is so extraordinary that in the confines of an ICE - even in the few milliseconds following ignition - this ion can act alike a little high speed buzz-saw cutting through the other unstable or metastable molecules - which may be present - perhaps allowing for not only a complete burn... but perhaps *more* in the sense of this: the Faradic splitting energy required for steam is a fractional eV lower than the recombination energy if there is nay proton displacement and as much as 11+ eV if there is substantial proton displacement.. ERGO - If you set up the situation where you have a chain-reaction of sequential splitting-recombination - due to the high mobility - then there is the possibility of gainfulness... ... and so long as we "only" raise the final Carnot efficiency from say 30% to 60% there is no need to explain where the "extra" energy is coming from ;-) How is that for getting way-out on a 2nd-Law violation limb in only a few paragraphs...? Jones From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 19 11:17:40 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6JIHH8s027024; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:17:18 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6JIHF00026996; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:17:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:17:15 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060719141432.03f801b8 mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:16:58 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: [Vo]: For Joe Cell Lovers 8-) In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.20060719180551.009a6ac4 pop.freeserve.net> References: <2.2.32.20060719180551.009a6ac4 pop.freeserve.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69746 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Grimer wrote: >I've managed to get hold of F. Frank's "Polywater" >for the bargain price of $2. I highly recommend this book. The discussion of water at the beginning is fascinating, plus this is the best history of an actual case of 'pathological science' I know of. It is good because he is sympathetic to the scientists. Anyone reading this book will see that polywater was nothing like cold fusion in most ways. It was similar in that the scientists doing it were sincere, smart, and deserve respect. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 19 11:19:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6JIJSgM028661; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:19:29 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6JIJROs028643; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:19:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:19:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=D/e32fPpZOWfmVEsiM+YEbAMrS4ep5I1bJ55hWREw2ty74Ih1ri5cecU3O18rYTvWTKkAhT1clLD5Lk3oI3JzlAW1Gbyz92kIwif43HIRsOUd7kwaXUtawPmq0RE4nSch2CNoTPTG+WiL8YQIfWHSDSpubIwBKxeVyEUXau9KLY= Message-ID: Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:19:26 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: What is "bam" BAM Please In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: Resent-Message-ID: <2_OyvB.A.f_G.venvEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69747 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: He was speaking to John Steck. "BAM" is what one TV chef says when he "kicks it up a notch" by adding spices to his recipes. See: http://www.everythingemeril.com/emerilsbambq.html Terry On 7/19/06, john herman wrote: > Dear Vo., > > On 7/19/06, Jones Beene wrote: > > -- Hey John, > > > > You are an ICE expert, no? > > > Which what John? ICE??? > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 19 11:20:21 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6JIJxZk029050; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:20:00 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6JIJtIi028998; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:19:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:19:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <002f01c6ab5f$eb963390$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:19:47 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69748 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: What is "bam" BAM Please Status: O X-Status: >> You are an ICE expert, no? > Which what John? John Steck >ICE? Internal Combustion Engine >BAM favorite expression of famous Cajun Chef : Emeril Lagasse http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emeril_Lagasse From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 19 11:55:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6JItOMH015164; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:55:24 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6JItM9l015147; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:55:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:55:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <004901c6ab64$e190f290$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <002f01c6ab5f$eb963390$6401a8c0@NuDell> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:55:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69749 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: What is "bam" BAM Please Status: O X-Status: Speaking of Chef Emeril Lagasse Hope Terry and Michel caught the cross-cultural (Franco-American) pun -impicit in "Lagasse" .... ;-) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 19 12:46:33 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6JJkBVn007647; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 12:46:12 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6JJkArh007616; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 12:46:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 12:46:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:45:47 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: [Vo]: What is "bam" BAM Please In-reply-to: To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69750 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ...which should not be confused with "BAM BAM", the son of Barney Rubble. http://www.AnimationArtGallery.com/WBLTW1009.html Harry Terry Blanton wrote: > He was speaking to John Steck. > > "BAM" is what one TV chef says when he "kicks it up a notch" by adding > spices to his recipes. See: > > http://www.everythingemeril.com/emerilsbambq.html > > Terry > > On 7/19/06, john herman wrote: >> Dear Vo., >> >> On 7/19/06, Jones Beene wrote: >>> -- Hey John, >>> >>> You are an ICE expert, no? >> >> >> Which what John? ICE??? >> > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 19 13:17:12 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6JKGsRZ021397; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 13:16:54 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6JKGn9Q021356; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 13:16:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 13:16:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=S7vwGsa2yKM33MAvzFoy7tYcNsl8x8kSxXakb1ScB9V0IFG+nwj8xOkBJTvDf/7r; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220067319201627209 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:16:27 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94058b199ff56ca6e7cc48eb2435cd39b66350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.60 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69751 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Net Energy From Waterfuel Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII An interesting exercise: Auto-Ionization in water: H2O <---> H+ + 0H- or 2 H2O <----> H3O+ + OH- - 80 kJ/mole Solution and Hydration of H+ or H3O + and OH- (or e-) in Condensed water: - 1,000 kJ/mole Total Exotherm: 1,080 kJ/mole Ionization Energies: H 13.6 eV or 1,310 kJ/mole OH 13.17 eV or 1,269 kJ/mole H2O 12.6 eV or 1,214 kJ/mole HO2 11.53 eV or 1,111 kJ/mole H2O2 11.00 eV or 1,060 kJ/mole Electron Affinity: H 0.754 eV or 72.26 kJ/mole OH 1.828 eV or 176.13 kJ/mole O2 0.451 eV or 43.45 kJ/mole HO2 1.08 eV or 104.060 kJ/mole (H2O)n n= 2-19.00 eV or 1,831 kJ/mole What is the net energy extractable as work from these if these are drawn into an ICE as bubbles or Nanoclusters/droplets? http://members.aol.com/engware/calc3.htm In the Otto cycle ICE at a 7:1 compression ratio the air in the cylinder is at 649 K due to the work of compression, and goes up to 1250 K combustion temperature (a plasma) when the H2 (pilot fuel) from the Joe Cell ignites. The heat of compression alone should be ample energy to free up hydrated H+, H3O+ , OH- ions (1,080 kJ/mole) from bubbles, Nanoclusters droplets, or whatever, and allow up to 1,310 kJ/mole for H+ + e- = H plus about 500 kJ/mole for forming H2O from H + OH. Hence, 1310 + 500 - 1080 = 1230 kJ/mole or thereabouts might be available for work from the "Joe Cell" Waterfuel. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

An interesting exercise:
 
Auto-Ionization in water: H2O <---> H+ + 0H- or 2 H2O <----> H3O+ + OH-
- 80 kJ/mole
Solution and Hydration of H+ or H3O + and OH- (or e-) in Condensed water:
- 1,000 kJ/mole
Total Exotherm: 1,080 kJ/mole
 
Ionization Energies:
H 13.6 eV or 1,310 kJ/mole
OH 13.17 eV or 1,269 kJ/mole
H2O 12.6 eV or 1,214 kJ/mole
HO2 11.53 eV or 1,111 kJ/mole
H2O2 11.00 eV or 1,060 kJ/mole
 
Electron Affinity:
H 0.754 eV or 72.26 kJ/mole
OH 1.828 eV or 176.13 kJ/mole
O2 0.451 eV or 43.45 kJ/mole
HO2 1.08 eV or 104.060 kJ/mole
(H2O)n   n= 2-19.00 eV or 1,831 kJ/mole
 
What is the net energy extractable as work from these if
these are drawn into an ICE as bubbles or Nanoclusters/droplets?
 
 
 
In the Otto cycle ICE at a 7:1 compression ratio
the air in the cylinder is at 649 K due to the work of
compression, and goes up to 1250 K combustion
temperature (a plasma) when the H2 (pilot fuel) from the
Joe Cell ignites.
 
The heat of compression alone should be ample energy to
free up hydrated H+, H3O+ , OH-  ions (1,080 kJ/mole) from bubbles, Nanoclusters
droplets, or whatever, and allow up to 1,310 kJ/mole for H+ + e- = H
plus about 500 kJ/mole for forming H2O from H + OH.
 
Hence, 1310 + 500  - 1080 = 1230 kJ/mole  or thereabouts might be available
for work from the "Joe Cell" Waterfuel.
 
Fred
 
 
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 19 14:02:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6JL0c6d011995; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:02:19 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6JKdITQ032333; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 13:39:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 13:39:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=MU2PmqNPRrQVt8TRS0ma7HFy0dcSWWcHYPMD2usCPXmxYsSnMNAW0fKOMRp6q0NS; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220067319203859890 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Net Energy From Waterfuel Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:38:59 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9409c42e7a74626db0f9d2faa777b7c68f7350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.162.206 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69752 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Even if you don't get something for nothing, it's a helluva good way to store up energy for a transportation fuel Fred http://www.thejoecell.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 7/19/2006 2:17:50 PM Subject: [Vo]: Re: Net Energy From Waterfuel An interesting exercise: Auto-Ionization in water: H2O <---> H+ + 0H- or 2 H2O <----> H3O+ + OH- - 80 kJ/mole Solution and Hydration of H+ or H3O + and OH- (or e-) in Condensed water: - 1,000 kJ/mole Total Exotherm: 1,080 kJ/mole Ionization Energies: H 13.6 eV or 1,310 kJ/mole OH 13.17 eV or 1,269 kJ/mole H2O 12.6 eV or 1,214 kJ/mole HO2 11.53 eV or 1,111 kJ/mole H2O2 11.00 eV or 1,060 kJ/mole Electron Affinity: H 0.754 eV or 72.26 kJ/mole OH 1.828 eV or 176.13 kJ/mole O2 0.451 eV or 43.45 kJ/mole HO2 1.08 eV or 104.060 kJ/mole (H2O)n n= 2-19.00 eV or 1,831 kJ/mole What is the net energy extractable as work from these if these are drawn into an ICE as bubbles or Nanoclusters/droplets? http://members.aol.com/engware/calc3.htm In the Otto cycle ICE at a 7:1 compression ratio the air in the cylinder is at 649 K due to the work of compression, and goes up to 1250 K combustion temperature (a plasma) when the H2 (pilot fuel) from the Joe Cell ignites. The heat of compression alone should be ample energy to free up hydrated H+, H3O+ , OH- ions (1,080 kJ/mole) from bubbles, Nanoclusters droplets, or whatever, and allow up to 1,310 kJ/mole for H+ + e- = H plus about 500 kJ/mole for forming H2O from H + OH. Hence, 1310 + 500 - 1080 = 1230 kJ/mole or thereabouts might be available for work from the "Joe Cell" Waterfuel. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Even if you don't get something for nothing, it's a
helluva good way to store up energy for a transportation fuel
 
Fred
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 7/19/2006 2:17:50 PM
Subject: [Vo]: Re: Net Energy From Waterfuel

An interesting exercise:
 
Auto-Ionization in water: H2O <---> H+ + 0H- or 2 H2O <----> H3O+ + OH-
- 80 kJ/mole
Solution and Hydration of H+ or H3O + and OH- (or e-) in Condensed water:
- 1,000 kJ/mole
Total Exotherm: 1,080 kJ/mole
 
Ionization Energies:
H 13.6 eV or 1,310 kJ/mole
OH 13.17 eV or 1,269 kJ/mole
H2O 12.6 eV or 1,214 kJ/mole
HO2 11.53 eV or 1,111 kJ/mole
H2O2 11.00 eV or 1,060 kJ/mole
 
Electron Affinity:
H 0.754 eV or 72.26 kJ/mole
OH 1.828 eV or 176.13 kJ/mole
O2 0.451 eV or 43.45 kJ/mole
HO2 1.08 eV or 104.060 kJ/mole
(H2O)n   n= 2-19.00 eV or 1,831 kJ/mole
 
What is the net energy extractable as work from these if
these are drawn into an ICE as bubbles or Nanoclusters/droplets?
 
 
 
In the Otto cycle ICE at a 7:1 compression ratio
the air in the cylinder is at 649 K due to the work of
compression, and goes up to 1250 K combustion
temperature (a plasma) when the H2 (pilot fuel) from the
Joe Cell ignites.
 
The heat of compression alone should be ample energy to
free up hydrated H+, H3O+ , OH-  ions (1,080 kJ/mole) from bubbles, Nanoclusters
droplets, or whatever, and allow up to 1,310 kJ/mole for H+ + e- = H
plus about 500 kJ/mole for forming H2O from H + OH.
 
Hence, 1310 + 500  - 1080 = 1230 kJ/mole  or thereabouts might be available
for work from the "Joe Cell" Waterfuel.
 
Fred
 
 
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 19 14:24:46 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6JLOZem028275; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:24:35 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6JLOXoH028252; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:24:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:24:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <023501c6ab79$b90590a0$3800a8c0 zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <002f01c6ab5f$eb963390$6401a8c0@NuDell> <004901c6ab64$e190f290$6401a8c0@NuDell> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 23:24:29 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6JLOVAA028228 Resent-Message-ID: <140hVC.A.U5G.RMqvEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69753 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: What is "bam" BAM Please Status: O X-Status: "Legasse" would have come through better, gaz being masculine in French. On-topic in any case :) Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jones Beene" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 8:55 PM Subject: [Vo]: Re: What is "bam" BAM Please > Speaking of Chef Emeril Lagasse > > Hope Terry and Michel caught the cross-cultural (Franco-American) > pun -impicit in "Lagasse" .... ;-) > > > > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 19 15:38:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6JMcEjA031382; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 15:38:15 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6JMcCod031359; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 15:38:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 15:38:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 18:38:07 -0400 Message-Id: <8C8799B240A7454-23F4-11CB0 mblkn-m20.sysops.aol.com> From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net References: <2.2.32.20060719180551.009a6ac4 pop.freeserve.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.20060719180551.009a6ac4 pop.freeserve.net> X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18261 Subject: Re: [Vo]: For Joe Cell Lovers 8-) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.138 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <7eBjgB.A.5pH.URrvEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69754 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -----Original Message----- From: Grimer The key to understanding is to recognise that in terms of Di-Phase Theory the SOLID PHASE is in a state of compression and the FLUID PHASE is in a state of tension. <><><><><><> Well, I'm not very patient. Is the 'Legasse' in equilibrium? Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 19 15:57:37 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6JMvMJM006693; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 15:57:22 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6JMvI4G006646; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 15:57:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 15:57:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060719185634.03dd5a80 mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 18:57:05 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69755 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Toyota moves to corner plug-in hybrid market Status: O X-Status: See: http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0720/p02s01-ussc.html - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 19 18:45:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6K1j5Ac019136; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 18:45:05 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6K1j300019102; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 18:45:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 18:45:03 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=jzBJEs6EghOFVzKKfwtcfT0MFA4mvK5v8sAco/dTXFCIln6/LskcYJAXNmp+KgIMtGzWMOFbCzyM5nlf1fcuxq05XpftVS1SyFAire/IbZ9SRyoFFCB8PU3YccfCpKNo3RWcCgaeU7GzPzZp0VSZIX0gxVe1bbui8Ar/SZ5pwUI= Message-ID: Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 21:45:01 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Toyota moves to corner plug-in hybrid market In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060719185634.03dd5a80 mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060719185634.03dd5a80 mindspring.com> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69756 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Pity they lost the war. Terry On 7/19/06, Jed Rothwell wrote: > See: > > http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0720/p02s01-ussc.html > > - Jed > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 19 19:29:02 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6K2Smxw019386; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 19:28:49 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6K2Sk6X019364; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 19:28:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 19:28:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-IronPort-AV: i="4.07,158,1151899200"; d="scan'208"; a="1432651088:sNHT17411356" Message-ID: <449200251.1153362523585.JavaMail.root fepweb14> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 19:28:43 -0700 From: OrionWorks To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Toyota moves to corner plug-in hybrid market MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Sensitivity: Normal Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69757 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Terry sez: > Pity they lost the war. > > Terry > > On 7/19/06, Jed Rothwell wrote: > > See: > > > > http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0720/p02s01-ussc.html > > > > - Jed > > I find it odd that a bleeding heart card carrying liberal like me would find myself saying I don't find that comment very funny. And besides, I'm not sure they did. (Sushi, anyone?) Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.Zazzle.com/OrionWorks From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 20 04:21:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6KBLNFK012640; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 04:21:23 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6KBLLRL012618; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 04:21:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 04:21:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <001601c6abee$9d647350$640fa8c0 MIKEBY3NR533HT> From: "Mike Carrell" To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060719185634.03dd5a80 mindspring.com> Subject: Re: [Vo]: Toyota moves to corner plug-in hybrid market Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 07:21:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69758 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Blanton" Subject: Re: [Vo]: Toyota moves to corner plug-in hybrid market > Pity they lost the war. > > Terry Arguably, they won, as in "The Mouse that Roared"; they had the blessing to be conquered by the US and MacArthur, who helped them to their feet an established democratic insititutions. An old industrial infrastructure was destroyed, giving a chance to build anew with the latest and greatest. They listenend to Edwards Deming [when US manufactureres ignored him] and set a new standard of manufacturing excellence which other countries have yet to match. The prospered under the protection of the US military umbrells without the cost of a very espensive defense establishment. In the 80's it looked as if Japan would rival the US in the #1 spot, but internal weaknesses corrupted that thrust and they fell into stagnation. Toyota made a ground-up investment in hybrid technology and got it right; others are playing catch-up. Mike Carrell Jed has much better insight into Japan than I do. Comments, Jed? Mike Carrell > > On 7/19/06, Jed Rothwell wrote: >> See: >> >> http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0720/p02s01-ussc.html >> >> - Jed >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This Email has been scanned for all viruses by Medford Leas I.T. > Department. > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 20 06:53:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6KDrPdU019468; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 06:53:26 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6KDrNVs019446; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 06:53:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 06:53:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-24.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060720095152.03f7ce38 mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 09:53:04 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69759 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Another article about plug in hybrids Status: O X-Status: See: http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/SaveonaCar/The100mpgCarIsComing.aspx QUOTE: Even though the addition of bigger trucks and sport-utilities has brought its corporate average fuel economy down from 26 mpg in 1987 to 24 mpg today, according to EPA figures released this week, Toyota is the undisputed leader in hybrid technology. Press said Toyota has "sold more U.S. hybrids so far this year than Cadillac, Buick or Mercedes-Benz has sold cars." - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 20 09:21:41 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6KGKJKa030786; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 09:21:24 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6KFwwLT010579; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 08:58:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 08:58:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 11:57:55 -0500 From: Harry Veeder In-reply-to: <00aa01c6abde$bc0b1490$0200a8c0 annamtk4mddkrq> To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6KFwNCw010037 Resent-Message-ID: <6flb-C.A.6jC.5g6vEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69760 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: OT: Aerosols and Climate Change Status: O X-Status: Tiny Airborne Particles are a Major Cause of Climate Change --------------------------------------------------------------------- July 18, 2006 http://www.physorg.com/news72463917.html A scientist at the Weizmann Institute of Science and his colleagues caused a storm in the atmospheric community when they suggested a few years back that tiny airborne particles, known as aerosols, may be one of the main culprits causing climate change ­ having, on a local scale, an even greater impact than the greenhouse gases effect. Attempts to understand how these particles influence clouds have generated many uncertainties. A new paper by Dr. Ilan Koren of the Weizmann Institute Environmental Studies and Energy Research Department and Dr. Yoram Kauffman of the NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center, USA,* published in Science Express online, weaves together two opposing effects of atmospheric aerosols to provide a comprehensive picture of how they may be affecting our climate. Cloud formation is dependent upon the presence of small amounts of aerosols such as sea salt and desert dust. These tiny particles serve as the seeds around which water vapor in the air condenses, forming tiny water droplets that rise as they release heat. As the small droplets rise, they collide and merge with larger droplets. When the droplets reach a critical size, gravity takes over, causing them to fall from the cloud in the form of rain. One of the controversies surrounding the extent of aerosol impact on climate change is the duality of their influence. On the one hand, Koren and his colleagues previously found evidence to suggest that the extra seeds planted in the atmosphere by the emission of man-made aerosols (pollution, forest fires, and fuel combustion) lead to more, but smaller-sized, water droplets. The formation of larger water droplets by the collision process is less efficient and, therefore, rainfall is suppressed. The smaller droplets are lifted higher up into the atmosphere, creating larger and taller clouds that will persist longer. Not only does this alter the whole water cycle, but the increased cloud cover reflects more of the sun's radiation back into space, creating a local cooling effect on Earth. But to complicate matters, Koren, in another study, showed that certain types of aerosols ­ those containing black carbon ­ can also decrease cloud cover, ultimately leading to a warming effect. This occurs as black carbon absorbs part of the sun's radiation, warming the surrounding atmosphere and reducing the difference in temperature between the Earth¹s surface and the upper atmosphere. This combination prevents atmospheric instability ­ the condition needed to form clouds and rain. A stable atmosphere means fewer clouds; fewer clouds mean less reflection of sunlight; less reflection of sunlight and absorption of radiation lead to warming. Policy makers have argued that, in the bottom line, the warming effect of the greenhouse gases and the (mainly cooling) aerosol effect may balance each other out so that the net global climate change will be small. Koren argues that it is the local climate change that is problematic: Clouds may persist without releasing their rain over regions where they would normally precipitate, such as rainforests, and move to precipitate over regions where rain is not needed, such as oceans. Or the effect could lead to the warming up of cold and the cooling down of hot regions. These additional effects to the already problematic warming by greenhouse gases could have disastrous repercussions in the long run. Also controversial is the question of how such tiny localized particles affect weather systems thousands of kilometers away from their sources. There is no doubt that aerosols do play a role, but the skeptics believe it is negligible compared to meteorological key players such as temperature, pressure, the amount of water vapor in the air, and wind strength. What Koren needed was a way to separate meteorological from aerosol influences ­ something which was lacking in his previous studies. Together with Kauffman, he used a network of ground sensors (AERONET) to measure the effect of aerosol concentration on cloud cover. Radiation absorption is less affected by meteorology, so if the skeptics are right and meteorology is the main influence, then the correlation between aerosol absorption and cloud cover should have been seen in only a few circumstances. But this was not the case. They observed the duality effect on clouds: As total aerosols increase, cloud cover increases; and as radiation absorption by aerosols increases, cloud cover decreases ­ for all locations, for all seasons. Backed up with a mathematical analysis, it becomes harder to deny that it is, in fact, aerosols that have the major influence. "We hope that this study has finally provided closure," says Koren. "Hopefully policy makers will start to tackle the issue of climate change from a different perspective, taking into account not only the global impact of aerosols and greenhouse gases, but local effects too." * Dr. Yoram Kauffman, one of the leading researchers in atmospheric aerosols, was recently killed while riding his bike near the Goddard Space Center. Dr. Ilan Koren¹s research is supported by the Samuel M. Soref and Helene K. Soref Foundation; and the Sussman Family Center for the Study of Environmental Sciences. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 20 10:09:03 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6KGeSoV019352; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 09:40:53 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6KGNN4s001421; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 09:23:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 09:23:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=eZrNt5j6N6hA0pNZm3gdEsULuZZ3UVzDlMuJU2NJcVQ22ZFJnWeN03prVyERgYqaQDTT+wAzN+YMLy1w7pq/N7v0CH+6IFCdOkgaRhgynfBRJULCQfx3UdAWVAjcradNsrEtzr05M6X3vmbCaPdPqnwI+IKfpapi5VwKXaQ/GgE= Message-ID: Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 12:16:08 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <-zjeMC.A.hV.136vEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69761 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Tesla Unveiled Status: O X-Status: Tesla Motors has unveiled their first production unit. I found this from the FAQ amusing: http://www.teslamotors.com/learn_more/faqs.php "How much service does the Tesla Roadster require? Far, far less than gasoline-powered cars. Most cars require service every 3,000 to 5,000 miles. The Tesla Roadster has no motor oil or oil filters to change, no smog equipment to check, no air filters to replace, no power steering fluids to refill. We feel confident that the only service your Tesla Roadster will require for the first 100,000 miles is tire and brake inspection. But we'll be happier to see you once a year or every 25,000 miles or so, just to check in. " :-) Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 20 10:15:00 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6KHBvJJ014410; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 10:14:37 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6KGwJWC002558; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 09:58:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 09:58:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00ba01c6ac1c$beeaabb0$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 09:51:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69763 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: OT: More than "Ten Years After" Status: O X-Status: Memories fade, conspiracy theories bloom ... but prophets of Biblical proportions are still around us these days, apparently, So... while you are waiting for more "firewater" to cook-up, using a new-and-improved method (Teflon wax over Teflon surface), you take a few moments to read some entertaining ... err... fiction? Fiction or no, even before TWA there was OKC... and yes, maybe a few "rogue agents" were lingering holdovers (or offspring) from the Grassy-Knoll days (nepotism is rampantly improper in the Agency, you know). In 1991, roughly four years before the OKC bombing - the Governor of that fair state: Frank Keating is a former FBI hot-shot-turned-Pol. His brother, Martin, writes this prescient manuscript, now a published book - named: "The Final Jihad." http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0964704811/002-7344694-4764068?v=glance&n=283155 In this largely unheralded book, Keating lays out a "fictional" story of terrorists who decide to bomb a federal building. Guess what the name of the one of the key "terrorists" is? Ans: Tom McVey. Wow ... usually you try to hide similarities a little better. At least they try to change the names (to protect the perps?) on "Law and Order". Now remember, this was 4 years before the deed. Coincidental? Ha! maybe coincidental if it were not for about a dozen other details, apparently known in advance by someone... remember it's written in 1991, and our modern day prophet also predicts the TWA downing, the World Trade Center bombing, and more. Did he somehow get hold of a master-plan of "dirty tricks" left unattended by his FeeBeeBro? ... or was this just a mysterious premonition that Jr. Keating had (from the unHoly Ghost) ? Who knows, but this book sure does sound like there was some kind of a blue print for several so-called "terrorist acts" already in the works" in 1991, if not before... " Perhaps it was "just a meme"... or... maybe that is what prophets are good at: latching onto memes - or else ... enjoying holidays with former agents-provocateur, who --- as are many Okies, will enjoy a nip or two before the Turkey arrives --- and might inadvertently spill out a few top-national-secrets after Jack-on-the-rocks. Is Martin Keating a modern day prophet? a lucky-guesser? is blood thicker than water? or what is going-on here ...? Signed, Harry Tuttle aide-de-camp of Gen. Benton Partin From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 20 10:21:23 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6KHLBlu022817; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 10:21:12 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6KHL7eE022755; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 10:21:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 10:21:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-Orig: 64-247-224-27.wan.networktel.net [64.247.224.24] (may be forged) Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060720131317.03f7ce38 mindspring.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 13:15:53 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: [Vo]: Tesla Unveiled In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <8cTsCC.A.ajF.Cu7vEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69764 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Quoting the Tesla Motors FAQ: >The Tesla Roadster has no motor oil or oil >filters to change, no smog equipment to check, no air filters to >replace, no power steering fluids to refill. It does not have power steering? What about lubrication for the bearings? Doesn't that have to be changed at less than 100,000 miles? See also an interesting article and nice pix: http://www.wired.com/news/wiredmag/0,71414-0.html?tw=wn_index_2 http://blog.wired.com/teslacar/ - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 20 10:26:34 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6KHBvJL014410; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 10:14:46 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6KGgS0B021025; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 09:42:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 09:42:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Reply-To: From: "John Steck" To: Subject: RE: [Vo]: RE: BAM Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 11:14:09 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <20060719161711.49154.qmail web82707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Importance: Normal X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69762 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Expert is a relative term, a mantle that I am not arrogant enough to claim. I know as much as I do not and that ratio seems to stay balanced despite time and all efforts. I am always very curious of water fuel ideas, but each to date has drawbacks for every advantage. Corrosion and reliability of engine components is now and will always continue to be the primary hurdle to a robust, viable, mass producible system. To be blunt, my focus these days is on low tech systems and approaches.... heat engines coupled with low RPM power generation. I've mostly abandoned ICE as a motive source and been looking to higher efficiency systems run on organic renewable fuel supplies. The holy grail being a viable off grid power and heating solution for the average sized suburban home in a typical metropolitan environment that doesn't draw any attention. Exotics are nice and intellectually stimulating, but generally will always get the 'dog head turn' look from the non-geeks within ear shot. Whatever is the agent of change is in our society, it has to be simple, understandable, and serviceable to survive and persist. It needs to appear initially non-threatening to the establishment to get a fledgling installation base but enjoy a dramatic ground swell popularity to force adoption and acceptance.... i.e. hybrid cars. Just my 2 cents. -john ----Original Message----- From: Jones Beene [mailto:jonesb9 pacbell.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 11:17 AM To: johnsteck tetrahelix.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: RE: BAM -- Hey John, You are an ICE expert, no? Are you not tempted to try a HydroBooster, with or without treated water? Jones BTW Michel - the solubility of H2 in H2O is very low: See item 33 on this page: http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/explan4.html Had not Michel asked for short posts, I would have given the executive summary of that page ;-) --- John Steck wrote: > That's like asking the sun to dim a little cause > it's too bright in the > morning... 8^) > -----Original Message----- > From: Michel Jullian > Jones (please kindly try to make your posts > shorter!) I was not thinking of > H2 nanobubbles but of _dissoved_ H2 AND O2 (no > bubbles at all, not even pico > or femto). From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 20 11:44:40 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6KIeW6K012384; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 11:44:34 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6KHja43007913; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 10:45:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 10:45:36 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Reply-To: From: "John Steck" To: Subject: RE: [Vo]: Toyota moves to corner plug-in hybrid market Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 10:31:49 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Importance: Normal X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69766 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Winning and loosing are arbitrary and subjective monikers assigned by those who write history books. The terms are as delimitative as 'justice'. Wars have many fronts and ebb and flow in activity and civility. Who says this one ever ended? or ever will? My first car was a Toyota, 3 subsequent are/were Toyotas. They employ Americans and operate on US soil. My sponsorship benefits the citizens of this country in which I reside. My bullets are dollars, and from that perspective the war goes well on that front. -john -----Original Message----- From: Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlraum gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 8:45 PM To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Toyota moves to corner plug-in hybrid market Pity they lost the war. Terry On 7/19/06, Jed Rothwell wrote: > See: > > http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0720/p02s01-ussc.html > > - Jed > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 20 12:34:56 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6KIeW6I012384; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 11:44:23 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6KI3KpX017744; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 11:03:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 11:03:20 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: RE: [Vo]: OT: More than "Ten Years After" Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 12:39:42 -0500 Message-ID: <41F9A95B5C164E45B5D900F94628E1C25B515F CCUMAIL33.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Vo]: OT: More than "Ten Years After" Thread-Index: AcasICyEhxyH3Z+zSCO/BZuNul6/mQAApyYg From: "Zell, Chris" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Jul 2006 17:39:44.0426 (UTC) FILETIME=[7CCCB0A0:01C6AC23] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6KI39nN017636 Resent-Message-ID: <6G5XuD.A.HVE.mV8vEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69767 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You might not agree with the answer! I attended a seminar held by Russell Targ - who helped start the CIA's psychic viewing program in the '80's. He pointed out that somebody wrote a book about an unsinkable ocean liner called the "Titan" , years before the Titanic sank. Many of the fictional descriptions of the ship also corresponded to the real Titanic and of course, the Titan sank, too. His point? Imaginative people sometimes remote view the future without realizing it. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 20 12:37:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6KHWjeS032210; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 10:32:46 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6KHWfmn032155; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 10:32:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 10:32:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=EScCGZn91dTXVVzP3T3DXjxPaB3AoVFneRIjxCQgjRaCe5txXWjag714WMaXYrte; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220067420172117205 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 11:21:17 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9401fbdb2b41176f5eaaec904bc8aac7413350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.133 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69765 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: That other Klein Waterfuel Patent Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I sent this link to a friend interested in the Klein Waterfuel patent: http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=2&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=Klein.IN.&s2=water.AB.&OS=IN/Klein+AND+ABST/water&RS=IN/Klein+AND+ABST/water Interesting huh? Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

I sent this link to a friend interested in the Klein Waterfuel patent:
 
 
 
Interesting huh?
 
Fred
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 20 13:15:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6KKErTP014554; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 13:14:55 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6KKEnML014489; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 13:14:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 13:14:49 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 16:03:38 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: [Vo]: Toyota moves to corner plug-in hybrid market In-reply-to: To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69769 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John Steck wrote: > My bullets are dollars, and from that > perspective the war goes well on that front. > > -john Regarding saving and spending, which is an offensive strategy and which is a defensive strategy? Harry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 20 14:28:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6KLM1Aj002934; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 14:28:00 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6KIwmbi028264; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 11:58:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 11:58:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-CVTV-Spamfilter: Scanned X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Virus-Scanned: by McAfee Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <002801c6ac1d$4e33bb40$0100007f xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: [VO]: Re:OT: Aerosols and Climate Change Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 11:54:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0024_01C6ABF3.4EF54FA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69768 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C6ABF3.4EF54FA0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0025_01C6ABF3.4EF54FA0" ------=_NextPart_001_0025_01C6ABF3.4EF54FA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankHarry Veeder wrote.. Tiny Airborne Particles are a Major Cause of Climate Change --------------------------------------------------------------------- July 18, 2006 http://www.physorg.com/news72463917.html Howdy Harry, Lets see if I have this straight in my mind. Bush administration and = their mouthpieces including Rush are adamant that climate change is = natural as chewing tobaccer and spitting it on the cantina floor.... It = simply can't be the cause of the mess. I live under the plume of the stack at Fayette Power plant. Unit numbero = uno is " grandfathered" and is allowed to blow smoke literally abd = figuratively. One of the 20 worse polluters in the US according to EPA. = It is jointly owned by the state of Texas and city of Austin.. but not = to worry.. they are gonna abandon it "soon' .. err.. I mean.. well.. = err.. after they build units 4 and 5 and figure out how to burn " = Mexican" coal in lieu of Wyoming. Course Mex coal has a few more = pollutants like increased mercury and some uranium in it but what the = heck..its cheap. The local stacks (3) have altered the weather pattern immediately = downstream of the plumes. Houston ship channel industries have altered = the weather patterns northeast of the city plum into counties up to = Louisana.and Arkansas but the documentation sorta slid off the desk and = landed in the paper shredder by "shear" accident. Richard=20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0025_01C6ABF3.4EF54FA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Harry Veeder wrote..

Tiny Airborne Particles are a Major Cause of Climate=20 Change
---------------------------------------------------------------= ------
July=20 18, 2006

http://www.physorg.com/= news72463917.html

Howdy Harry,

Lets see if I have this straight in my mind. Bush administration and = their=20 mouthpieces including Rush are adamant that climate change is natural as = chewing=20 tobaccer and spitting it on the cantina floor.... It simply can't = be the=20 cause of the mess.

I live under the plume of the stack at Fayette Power plant. Unit = numbero uno=20 is " grandfathered" and is allowed to blow smoke literally abd=20 figuratively. One of the 20 worse polluters in the US according to = EPA. It=20 is jointly owned by the state of Texas and city of Austin..  = but not=20 to worry.. they are gonna abandon it "soon' .. err.. I mean.. well.. = err.. after=20 they build units 4 and 5 and figure out how to burn " Mexican" coal = in lieu=20 of Wyoming. Course Mex coal has a few more pollutants like increased = mercury and=20 some uranium in it but what the heck..its cheap.

The local stacks (3) have altered the weather pattern = immediately=20 downstream of the plumes. Houston ship channel industries have = altered=20 the weather patterns northeast of the city plum into counties = up=20 to Louisana.and Arkansas but the documentation  sorta = slid off=20 the desk and landed in the paper shredder by "shear" accident.

Richard 
 

------=_NextPart_001_0025_01C6ABF3.4EF54FA0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C6ABF3.4EF54FA0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <002301c6ac1d$37c53d20$0100007f xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C6ABF3.4EF54FA0-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 20 15:01:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6KM0ABZ001670; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:01:31 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6KLTnL9008622; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 14:29:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 14:29:49 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=G0d2xaoTXVXFq5NvHtVc38ijTLNWZLvrZX1AliUStgAoOWj4qm+/EFCGbjnptdcvgD/SLUj4cs/6PK3hZM6MVdi1vQVGlntEsFjph6QNGF21KF3s0zNjrpZYqMNYR0lcjDFK4briwygMUANmHlB+4s6QQ9RSk08FnnLgwl8CuLM= Message-ID: Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 17:29:37 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: OT: More than "Ten Years After" In-Reply-To: <41F9A95B5C164E45B5D900F94628E1C25B515F CCUMAIL33.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <41F9A95B5C164E45B5D900F94628E1C25B515F CCUMAIL33.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69770 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: And, didn't HG Wells foresee the nuclear weapon long before Trinity? Terry On 7/20/06, Zell, Chris wrote: > You might not agree with the answer! > > I attended a seminar held by Russell Targ - who helped start the CIA's > psychic viewing program in the '80's. He pointed out that somebody > wrote a book about > an unsinkable ocean liner called the "Titan" , years before the Titanic > sank. Many of the fictional descriptions of the ship also corresponded > to the real Titanic > and of course, the Titan sank, too. > > His point? Imaginative people sometimes remote view the future without > realizing it. > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 20 15:12:18 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6KM0ABX001670; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:01:19 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6KLaTHN015848; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 14:36:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 14:36:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-CVTV-Spamfilter: Scanned X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Virus-Scanned: by McAfee Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <000c01c6ac40$520595e0$0100007f xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 16:05:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C6AC16.5226CB90" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69771 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: [Vo];Re:OT: More than " Ten Years After" Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C6AC16.5226CB90 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0009_01C6AC16.52285230" ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C6AC16.52285230 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankChris Zell wrote.. You might not agree with the answer!! Howdy Vorts, Truth alwys being stranger than fiction and more certainly harder to = believe.. Joseph Kingsbury -Smith, the only American reporter witnessing the = execution of the 10 Nazi officials convicted at the Nurenburg trials = wrote..=20 At the top of the scaffold, Streicher yelled " Purim Fest 1946". = Streicher was the "ramrod " of Hitler's "final solution" for Europen = Jewry. He was referring to a Jewish people's day of commeration for the = death of their biblical persecutor, Hamon. There were 10 Nazis hanged = that day, Goering having escaped the noose by suicide.=20 The book odf Esther describes Hamon as an "Agagite", an offspring of = King Agag. Agag was an offspring of King Amelak who fought Joshua. Hamon had TEN sons.. all hanged. Hamon advocated the death of all Jews = in Babylon. Question?? Why would Streicher utter this cry " Purim Fest 1946". Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C6AC16.52285230 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Chris Zell wrote..
 
You might not agree with the answer!!
 
Howdy Vorts,
 
Truth alwys being stranger than fiction and more certainly harder = to=20 believe..
 
Joseph Kingsbury -Smith, the only American reporter witnessing the=20 execution of the 10 Nazi  officials convicted at the Nurenburg = trials=20 wrote..
At the top of the scaffold, Streicher yelled " Purim Fest 1946". = Streicher=20 was the "ramrod " of Hitler's "final solution" for Europen Jewry. He was = referring to a Jewish people's day of commeration for the death of their = biblical persecutor, Hamon. There were 10 Nazis hanged that day, Goering = having=20 escaped the noose by suicide.
The book odf Esther describes Hamon as an "Agagite", an offspring = of King=20 Agag. Agag was an offspring of King Amelak who fought Joshua.
Hamon had TEN sons.. all hanged. Hamon advocated the death of = all Jews=20 in Babylon.
Question??
Why would Streicher utter this cry  " Purim Fest 1946".
 
Richard

 

------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C6AC16.52285230-- ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C6AC16.5226CB90 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000701c6ac40$3af3abd0$0100007f xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C6AC16.5226CB90-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 20 15:30:14 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6KMU44h023947; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:30:08 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6KML8Z5016927; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:21:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:21:08 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 18:20:16 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: [Vo]: OT: More than "Ten Years After" In-reply-to: To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69772 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Wells also foresees men going to the moon in 2030. Harry Terry Blanton wrote: > And, didn't HG Wells foresee the nuclear weapon long before Trinity? > > Terry > > On 7/20/06, Zell, Chris wrote: >> You might not agree with the answer! >> >> I attended a seminar held by Russell Targ - who helped start the CIA's >> psychic viewing program in the '80's. He pointed out that somebody >> wrote a book about >> an unsinkable ocean liner called the "Titan" , years before the Titanic >> sank. Many of the fictional descriptions of the ship also corresponded >> to the real Titanic >> and of course, the Titan sank, too. >> >> His point? Imaginative people sometimes remote view the future without >> realizing it. >> >> > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 20 16:29:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6KNTgrW025312; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 16:29:42 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6KNTe1D025291; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 16:29:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 16:29:40 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=VawyYWAB8l54Gjnzw71b0/8cv2pqfvNbcDXM2+KD12LpjmlucLb2s9eLX7ySOQ3kPIabiOZMv1kZfdPLvUmEIWkZGPNxDLXzCnOTGhIb2aDbsSo5u//AsDi/oILSU3NdBoPAN8FfA/80fn2NiPmLrBd7N404QYXcKPSdHDDt7m0= Message-ID: Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 19:29:39 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: OT: More than "Ten Years After" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69773 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Unfortunately, he did not foresee Mandarin. T On 7/20/06, Harry Veeder wrote: > > Wells also foresees men going to the moon in 2030. > > Harry > > Terry Blanton wrote: > > > And, didn't HG Wells foresee the nuclear weapon long before Trinity? > > > > Terry > > > > On 7/20/06, Zell, Chris wrote: > >> You might not agree with the answer! > >> > >> I attended a seminar held by Russell Targ - who helped start the CIA's > >> psychic viewing program in the '80's. He pointed out that somebody > >> wrote a book about > >> an unsinkable ocean liner called the "Titan" , years before the Titanic > >> sank. Many of the fictional descriptions of the ship also corresponded > >> to the real Titanic > >> and of course, the Titan sank, too. > >> > >> His point? Imaginative people sometimes remote view the future without > >> realizing it. > >> > >> > > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 20 16:53:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6KNrC11005923; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 16:53:13 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6KNrAlE005892; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 16:53:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 16:53:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <013b01c6ac57$a678e1b0$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 16:53:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69774 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: 1.45 V ... 1.24 V ... do I hear .17V Status: O X-Status: Sold ! American .... [gavel slams] OK it is coming from what some would call a third-rate University, and it is coming from a grad student, but Eric here thinks he is onto something... http://cerc.eng.usf.edu/std_individual/Eric%20Weaver_student.html "This process lowers the theoretical voltage needed for hydrogen production from 1.24 volts for water dissociation to 0.17 volts. " OK, riiiight. Here is Prof. Kowalski's newer entry on something similar... 303) Well known reactions or something else? http://blake.montclair.edu/~kowalskil/cf/303energy.html Is it time for Fred to lecture the assembled experts on: Voltage-Threshold vs. Voltage-Gradient; and assorted other intermediary subjects which make water electrolysis anything but "known" (Gibbs free energy, Helmholtz layers and so on)? From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 20 22:31:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6L5VG3E017170; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 22:31:16 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6L5VAaE017129; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 22:31:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 22:31:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Reply-To: From: "John Steck" To: Subject: RE: [Vo]: Toyota moves to corner plug-in hybrid market Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 00:30:57 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Importance: Normal X-EN-UserInfo: 903cebd83ef8529e7e6c1a7efe57779c:d8c21b0922dfed363e9ac277a3db5901 X-EN-AuthUser: johnsteck Sender: "John Steck" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69775 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Depends whether you like to read Vince Lombardi or Suze Orman... 8^) -----Original Message----- From: Harry Veeder [mailto:eo200 freenet.carleton.ca] Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 4:04 PM To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Toyota moves to corner plug-in hybrid market John Steck wrote: > My bullets are dollars, and from that > perspective the war goes well on that front. > > -john Regarding saving and spending, which is an offensive strategy and which is a defensive strategy? Harry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 20 23:00:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6L607E7030459; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 23:00:07 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6L5p5EX026137; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 22:51:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 22:51:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Reply-To: From: "John Steck" To: Subject: RE: [Vo]: [Vo];Re:OT: More than " Ten Years After" Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 00:50:44 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002A_01C6AC5F.B2809680" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <000c01c6ac40$520595e0$0100007f xptower> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Importance: Normal X-EN-UserInfo: 903cebd83ef8529e7e6c1a7efe57779c:d8c21b0922dfed363e9ac277a3db5901 X-EN-AuthUser: johnsteck Sender: "John Steck" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69776 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C6AC5F.B2809680 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_002B_01C6AC5F.B2809680" ------=_NextPart_001_002B_01C6AC5F.B2809680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BlankRhetorical question? Obviously to draw the correlation you just described. History is an obsession for many Europeans. Close living quarters forces it on you. The fact he knew intimate knowledge of his chosen enemy is of no surprise. What made their actions truly sinister was that knowledge. What do you call someone that speaks three languages? Tri-lingual What do you call someone that speaks two languages? Bi-lingual What do you call someone that only speaks one language? American -john -----Original Message----- From: RC Macaulay [mailto:walhalla cvtv.net] Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 4:05 PM To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: [Vo];Re:OT: More than " Ten Years After" Chris Zell wrote.. You might not agree with the answer!! Howdy Vorts, Truth alwys being stranger than fiction and more certainly harder to believe.. Joseph Kingsbury -Smith, the only American reporter witnessing the execution of the 10 Nazi officials convicted at the Nurenburg trials wrote.. At the top of the scaffold, Streicher yelled " Purim Fest 1946". Streicher was the "ramrod " of Hitler's "final solution" for Europen Jewry. He was referring to a Jewish people's day of commeration for the death of their biblical persecutor, Hamon. There were 10 Nazis hanged that day, Goering having escaped the noose by suicide. The book odf Esther describes Hamon as an "Agagite", an offspring of King Agag. Agag was an offspring of King Amelak who fought Joshua. Hamon had TEN sons.. all hanged. Hamon advocated the death of all Jews in Babylon. Question?? Why would Streicher utter this cry " Purim Fest 1946". Richard ------=_NextPart_001_002B_01C6AC5F.B2809680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Rhetorical=20 question?  Obviously to draw the correlation you just = described. =20 History is an obsession for many Europeans.  Close living quarters = forces=20 it on you. The fact he knew intimate knowledge of = his chosen=20 enemy is of no surprise.  What made their actions truly sinister = was that=20 knowledge.
 
What do you = call someone=20 that speaks three languages?  Tri-lingual
What do you = call someone=20 that speaks two languages? Bi-lingual
What do you = call someone=20 that only speaks one language?  American
 
-john
 
-----Original Message-----
From: RC Macaulay=20 [mailto:walhalla cvtv.net]
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 4:05=20 PM
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]: = [Vo];Re:OT: More=20 than " Ten Years After"

Chris Zell wrote..
 
You might not agree with the answer!!
 
Howdy Vorts,
 
Truth alwys being stranger than fiction and more certainly harder = to=20 believe..
 
Joseph Kingsbury -Smith, the only American reporter witnessing the=20 execution of the 10 Nazi  officials convicted at the Nurenburg = trials=20 wrote..
At the top of the scaffold, Streicher yelled " Purim Fest 1946". = Streicher=20 was the "ramrod " of Hitler's "final solution" for Europen Jewry. He was = referring to a Jewish people's day of commeration for the death of their = biblical persecutor, Hamon. There were 10 Nazis hanged that day, Goering = having=20 escaped the noose by suicide.
The book odf Esther describes Hamon as an "Agagite", an offspring = of King=20 Agag. Agag was an offspring of King Amelak who fought Joshua.
Hamon had TEN sons.. all hanged. Hamon advocated the death of = all Jews=20 in Babylon.
Question??
Why would Streicher utter this cry  " Purim Fest 1946".
 
Richard

 

------=_NextPart_001_002B_01C6AC5F.B2809680-- ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C6AC5F.B2809680 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <781374105 21072006-2d37> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C6AC5F.B2809680-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 20 23:23:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6L6N369010386; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 23:23:03 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6L6MxD1010296; Thu, 20 Jul 2006 23:22:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 23:22:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <44C07297.5020406 usfamily.net> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 01:22:15 -0500 From: thomas malloy User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com References: <000c01c6ac40$520595e0$0100007f xptower> In-Reply-To: <000c01c6ac40$520595e0$0100007f xptower> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <5Im0HB.A.XgC._KHwEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69777 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Purim 5706 Status: O X-Status: RC Macaulay wrote: > Chris Zell wrote.. > > Why would Streicher utter this cry " Purim Fest 1946". > > > I'm glad you asked that Richard. In a Jewish Bible, Tanach, in chapter 9 of the Book of Esther, there are three Hebrew characters which are printed in a smaller font. they are Shin, Tav, and Vav, these Hebrew characters correspond to numbers 300, 400 and 6, which total up to 706. 1946 corresponds to the year 5706 on the Sacred Calendar. The Rabbis attribute great significance to this, although in the past 6000 years there have been 6 years which might be interpreted as corresponding to those three characters. The Rabbis believe that some Germans are of the lineage of Edom, their arch enemy. The fire bombings of WW II are viewed as a partial fulfillment of Ezekiel 35 / Obadiah. --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 21 03:58:35 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6LAwEsR009862; Fri, 21 Jul 2006 03:58:14 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6LAwBnr009821; Fri, 21 Jul 2006 03:58:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 03:58:10 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=N3mwj26AgHp1F/gd3af2gSewa6EwGvsWRc6fQcS+UDkQBFtWEbeSFfO+uywQK8uU; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220067521105757128 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 04:57:57 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940fdc1e986e86e66a8b578726990572e67350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.191 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69778 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: 1.45 V ... 1.24 V ... do I hear .17V Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Jones Beene wrote. > > Is it time for Fred to lecture the assembled experts on: > > Voltage-Threshold vs. Voltage-Gradient; and assorted other intermediary > subjects which make water > electrolysis anything but "known" (Gibbs free energy, > Helmholtz layers and so on)? > May I suggest that you reread pages 25 through 40. Jones http://www2.ijs.si/~kkocevar/skripta.pdf 1] H. K. Christenson. Confinement effects on freezing and melting. J. Phys.: Condensed matter, 13:R95–R133, 2001. [2] S. Arcidiacono and D. Poulikakos. Oscillatory behaviour of nanodroplets. Phys. Rev. E., 70:011505, 2004. [3] S. Cuenot et al. Surface tension effects on the mechanical properties of nanomaterials. Phys. Rev. B., 69:165410, 2004. [4] Y. Sumino et al. Self-running droplet:emergence of regular motion from nonequilibrium noise. Phys. Rev. Lett., 94:068301, 2005. And: http://electrochem.cwru.edu/ed/encycl/art-c03-elchem-cap.htm And: http://www.physics.rutgers.edu/~wchen/Madey_page/Full_Publications/PDF/madey_SSR_1987_T.pdf And whatever else suits your fancy. :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

Jones Beene wrote.
>
> Is it time for Fred to lecture the assembled experts on:
>
> Voltage-Threshold vs. Voltage-Gradient; and assorted other intermediary
> subjects which make water
> electrolysis anything but "known" (Gibbs free energy,
> Helmholtz layers and so on)?
>
 
May I suggest that you reread pages 25 through 40. Jones  
 
 
1] H. K. Christenson. Confinement effects on freezing and melting. J. Phys.: Condensed

matter, 13:R95–R133, 2001.

[2] S. Arcidiacono and D. Poulikakos. Oscillatory behaviour of nanodroplets.

Phys. Rev. E., 70:011505, 2004.

[3] S. Cuenot et al. Surface tension effects on the mechanical properties of nanomaterials.

Phys. Rev. B., 69:165410, 2004.

[4] Y. Sumino et al. Self-running droplet:emergence of regular motion from nonequilibrium

noise. Phys. Rev. Lett., 94:068301, 2005.

And:

http://electrochem.cwru.edu/ed/encycl/art-c03-elchem-cap.htm

And:

http://www.physics.rutgers.edu/~wchen/Madey_page/Full_Publications/PDF/madey_SSR_1987_T.pdf

And whatever else suits your fancy.  :-)

Fred

 
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 21 04:40:41 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6LBePs3031276; Fri, 21 Jul 2006 04:40:25 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6LBeNiC031240; Fri, 21 Jul 2006 04:40:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 04:40:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=oxTFhLKgF5jWbE9MAYiCZczF4pMlDMKSREAWdBQQC25a6SfWSDt2XLYMshIC2N9O; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200675211140523 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 05:40:05 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940532cfce6541ebf93a0911befbbad3267350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.213 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69779 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Pseudocapacitance And Waterfuel/Joe Cell Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII http://electrochem.cwru.edu/ed/encycl/art-c03-elchem-cap.htm " pseudocapacitance provides one of the best examples of electrochemical (pseudo)capacitance as, in addition to the almost constant capacitance over a wide voltage range, its reversibility is excellent, with a cycle life over several hundred-thousand cycles. Furthermore, the pseudocapacitance can increase the capacitance of an electrochemical capacitor by as much as an order of magnitude over that of the double-layer capacitance." http://www.thejoecell.com/ Hamish says: " I believe the Joe Cell is essentially a kind of supercapacitor. It's similar in many ways to an old-fashioned Leyden jar. It has the ability to absorb and hold a charge. Unlike a normal capacitor however, it does not release that charge. It simply accumulates charge. In essence, it is an electron accumulator. " And I believe the Joe Cell pre-conditioning and ongoing electrolysis promotes Exothermic Pseudo-Autoionization of the water followed by Solvation-Hydration of the (OH-) (H+) and (H3O+) ions forming Nanoclusters/Droplets or Nanobubbles the same as the Wilson Cloud Chamber or The Bubble Chamber used in particle physics. And the ICE compression-pilot H2 ignition can release about 1,000 kJ/mole H2O or up to 25,000 BTU/LB H2O "burned", which is about the same as Diesel fuel. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

 
 
 " pseudocapacitance provides one of the best examples of electrochemical (pseudo)capacitance as, in addition to the almost constant capacitance over a wide voltage range, its reversibility is excellent, with a cycle life over several hundred-thousand cycles. Furthermore, the pseudocapacitance can increase the capacitance of an electrochemical capacitor by as much as an order of magnitude over that of the double-layer capacitance."
 
 
Hamish says:
" I believe the Joe Cell is essentially a kind of supercapacitor. It's similar in many ways to an old-fashioned
Leyden jar. It has the ability to absorb and hold a charge. Unlike a normal capacitor however, it does not
release that charge. It simply accumulates charge. In essence, it is an electron accumulator. "
 
And I believe the Joe Cell pre-conditioning and ongoing electrolysis promotes
Exothermic Pseudo-Autoionization of the water followed by Solvation-Hydration
of the (OH-) (H+) and (H3O+) ions forming Nanoclusters/Droplets or Nanobubbles
the same as the Wilson Cloud Chamber or The Bubble Chamber used in
particle physics.
 
And the ICE compression-pilot H2 ignition can release about 1,000 kJ/mole H2O
or up to 25,000 BTU/LB H2O "burned", which is about the same as Diesel fuel.
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 21 05:17:55 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6LCHSfL015887; Fri, 21 Jul 2006 05:17:29 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6LCHQS6015861; Fri, 21 Jul 2006 05:17:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 05:17:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=N2bymJO260hYAW3anld+La+DequhaH8AtWYWeGdq1G0YVWPE+r7uYiM0PjLjVb+8; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006752112433498 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: RE: [Vo]: Re: Pseudocapacitance And Waterfuel/Joe Cell Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 06:04:33 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940cfa79496fab32739f3d60ead1fccb7be350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.175 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69780 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII For the benefit of the skeptics, I might add that any energy above this might come from "tweaking" by the ~ 34 billion/cm^2 per second solar neutrino flux and/or ZPE. (Reich's Orgone?). Fred > > And I believe the Joe Cell pre-conditioning and ongoing electrolysis promotes > Exothermic Pseudo-Autoionization of the water followed by Solvation-Hydration > of the (OH-) (H+) and (H3O+) ions forming Nanoclusters/Droplets or Nanobubbles > the same as the Wilson Cloud Chamber or The Bubble Chamber used in > particle physics. > > And the ICE compression-pilot H2 ignition can release about 1,000 kJ/mole H2O > or up to 25,000 BTU/LB H2O "burned", which is about the same as Diesel fuel > ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 7/21/2006 5:41:11 AM Subject: [Vo]: Re: Pseudocapacitance And Waterfuel/Joe Cell http://electrochem.cwru.edu/ed/encycl/art-c03-elchem-cap.htm " pseudocapacitance provides one of the best examples of electrochemical (pseudo)capacitance as, in addition to the almost constant capacitance over a wide voltage range, its reversibility is excellent, with a cycle life over several hundred-thousand cycles. Furthermore, the pseudocapacitance can increase the capacitance of an electrochemical capacitor by as much as an order of magnitude over that of the double-layer capacitance." http://www.thejoecell.com/ Hamish says: " I believe the Joe Cell is essentially a kind of supercapacitor. It's similar in many ways to an old-fashioned Leyden jar. It has the ability to absorb and hold a charge. Unlike a normal capacitor however, it does not release that charge. It simply accumulates charge. In essence, it is an electron accumulator. " And I believe the Joe Cell pre-conditioning and ongoing electrolysis promotes Exothermic Pseudo-Autoionization of the water followed by Solvation-Hydration of the (OH-) (H+) and (H3O+) ions forming Nanoclusters/Droplets or Nanobubbles the same as the Wilson Cloud Chamber or The Bubble Chamber used in particle physics. And the ICE compression-pilot H2 ignition can release about 1,000 kJ/mole H2O or up to 25,000 BTU/LB H2O "burned", which is about the same as Diesel fuel. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
 
For the benefit of the skeptics, I might add that any energy above this
might come from "tweaking" by the ~ 34 billion/cm^2 per second solar neutrino
flux and/or ZPE. (Reich's Orgone?).
 
Fred
>
> And I believe the Joe Cell pre-conditioning and ongoing electrolysis promotes
> Exothermic Pseudo-Autoionization of the water followed by Solvation-Hydration
> of the (OH-) (H+) and (H3O+) ions forming Nanoclusters/Droplets or Nanobubbles
> the same as the Wilson Cloud Chamber or The Bubble Chamber used in
> particle physics.
>
> And the ICE compression-pilot H2 ignition can release about 1,000 kJ/mole H2O
> or up to 25,000 BTU/LB H2O "burned", which is about the same as Diesel fuel
>
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 7/21/2006 5:41:11 AM
Subject: [Vo]: Re: Pseudocapacitance And Waterfuel/Joe Cell

 
 
 " pseudocapacitance provides one of the best examples of electrochemical (pseudo)capacitance as, in addition to the almost constant capacitance over a wide voltage range, its reversibility is excellent, with a cycle life over several hundred-thousand cycles. Furthermore, the pseudocapacitance can increase the capacitance of an electrochemical capacitor by as much as an order of magnitude over that of the double-layer capacitance."
 
 
Hamish says:
" I believe the Joe Cell is essentially a kind of supercapacitor. It's similar in many ways to an old-fashioned
Leyden jar. It has the ability to absorb and hold a charge. Unlike a normal capacitor however, it does not
release that charge. It simply accumulates charge. In essence, it is an electron accumulator. "
 
And I believe the Joe Cell pre-conditioning and ongoing electrolysis promotes
Exothermic Pseudo-Autoionization of the water followed by Solvation-Hydration
of the (OH-) (H+) and (H3O+) ions forming Nanoclusters/Droplets or Nanobubbles
the same as the Wilson Cloud Chamber or The Bubble Chamber used in
particle physics.
 
And the ICE compression-pilot H2 ignition can release about 1,000 kJ/mole H2O
or up to 25,000 BTU/LB H2O "burned", which is about the same as Diesel fuel.
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 21 05:33:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6LCWpZn024616; Fri, 21 Jul 2006 05:32:51 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6LCWmZr024577; Fri, 21 Jul 2006 05:32:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 05:32:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-CVTV-Spamfilter: Scanned X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Virus-Scanned: by McAfee Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <001001c6acc1$c0579a30$0100007f xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: [VO]:Re: Purim 5706 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 07:31:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C6AC97.B7B57700" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69781 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C6AC97.B7B57700 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000D_01C6AC97.B7B6FDA0" ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C6AC97.B7B6FDA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankThomas wrote... The Rabbis believe that some Germans are of the lineage of Edom, their=20 arch enemy.=20 Howdy Thomas.. My thought in posting on the" more than 10 years after" thread was to = make mention that predictions can pull both from the ancient past into = the distant future such as the Purim account which spans from Joshua = fighting the Amalekites back around 1800 BC to the present Lebanon/ = Gaza. Belief systems, as mentioned peripherically by John are = promulgated by combinations of events from past traditions to present = experiences. Of the most corrosive is hate. Interesting you brought up Edom, Edom, (Mt. Sier , or Esau), the = brother of Jacob. Amalek, not Edom, is the ancient enemy of Isreal,( = the arch enemy). The prediction was that Isreal would fight the = Amalekites every generation. Some believe the Kazarites out of Russia = are Edomites having taken on the mantle of the religion of Isreal and = have strong influence both in Germany and English speaking nations. What = we read as described as the Hezbollah now fighting in Lebanon may be the = " next generation of the Amalekites. Only the shadow knows. We do know that when a bunch of mean little kids want an excuse to be = mean little kids, it don't take much predicting to figure out somebodys = gonna get killed. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C6AC97.B7B6FDA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Thomas wrote...

The Rabbis believe that some Germans are of the lineage of Edom, = their=20
arch enemy.

Howdy Thomas..

My thought in posting on the" more than 10 years after" thread was to = make=20 mention that predictions can pull both from the ancient past = into the=20 distant future such as the Purim account which spans from Joshua = fighting the=20 Amalekites back around 1800 BC to the present Lebanon/ Gaza.  = Belief=20 systems, as mentioned peripherically by John  are promulgated by=20 combinations of events from past traditions to present experiences. Of = the most=20 corrosive is hate.

Interesting you brought up  Edom, Edom, (Mt. Sier , or Esau), = the=20 brother of Jacob.    Amalek, not Edom, is the ancient = enemy of=20 Isreal,( the arch enemy). The prediction was that Isreal would = fight the=20 Amalekites every generation. Some believe the Kazarites out of Russia = are=20 Edomites having taken on the mantle of the religion of Isreal and have = strong=20 influence both in Germany and English speaking nations. What we read as=20 described as the Hezbollah now fighting in Lebanon may be the " next = generation=20 of the Amalekites.   Only the shadow knows.

We do know that when a bunch of mean little kids  want an excuse = to be=20 mean little kids, it don't take much predicting to figure out somebodys = gonna=20 get killed.

Richard

------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C6AC97.B7B6FDA0-- ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C6AC97.B7B57700 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000b01c6acc1$a07007c0$0100007f xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C6AC97.B7B57700-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 21 05:39:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6LCdXeC028385; Fri, 21 Jul 2006 05:39:34 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6LCdW2U028361; Fri, 21 Jul 2006 05:39:32 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 05:39:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-CVTV-Spamfilter: Scanned X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <002501c6acc2$b0788880$0100007f xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 07:39:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01C6AC98.C703A870" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69782 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: [VO] Energy Sec. Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C6AC98.C703A870 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0022_01C6AC98.C703A870" ------=_NextPart_001_0022_01C6AC98.C703A870 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankHowdy Vorts, After reading this article I think I will get my bike tires aired. http://www.politicalusa.com/schlussel17.html Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0022_01C6AC98.C703A870 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Howdy Vorts,
 
After reading this article I think I will get my bike tires = aired.
 
 
http://www.politica= lusa.com/schlussel17.html
Richard

 

------=_NextPart_001_0022_01C6AC98.C703A870-- ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C6AC98.C703A870 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <002001c6acc2$afd829d0$0100007f xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C6AC98.C703A870-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 21 06:04:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6LD4W7W010870; Fri, 21 Jul 2006 06:04:32 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6LD4SKI010831; Fri, 21 Jul 2006 06:04:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 06:04:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=pfMYwRDs65zTxOxs5FTrU60lU0tBDfN4C0mrgUzJejDhhikMKAB1xHoXQHAMgF1McxpgbA5suuA14ZAirl4UEBUzdoTgiTL1+b+Zri/sflADlcCpiVCYOOF00ck7s7MUZxpsua4WiM7P+Bq/rtxeIJJ85YKL5+qYb0ERf54etvg= Message-ID: Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 09:04:26 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Tesla Unveiled In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060720131317.03f7ce38 mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060720131317.03f7ce38 mindspring.com> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69783 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 7/20/06, Jed Rothwell wrote: > It does not have power steering? I doubt it. Power steering robs from the "feel of the road". > What about lubrication for the bearings? Doesn't that have to be > changed at less than 100,000 miles? Most bearings are sealed these days. I remember back in the previous century, as a grease monkey, I injected grease in over 100 fittings on a concrete truck (plus greasing the chain which drove the rotating drum!) Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 21 09:26:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6LGQbFZ024708; Fri, 21 Jul 2006 09:26:38 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6LGQOmp024599; Fri, 21 Jul 2006 09:26:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 09:26:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060721162616531.819673C00091 mwinf3212.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060721162615.00c16920 pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:26:15 +0100 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Grimer Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69784 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Pseudocapacitance And Waterfuel/Joe Cell Status: O X-Status: At 05:40 am 21/07/2006 -0600, you wrote: > >http://electrochem.cwru.edu/ed/encycl/art-c03-elchem-cap.htm > > " pseudocapacitance provides one of the best examples of electrochemical (pseudo)capacitance as, in addition to the almost constant capacitance over a wide voltage range, its reversibility is excellent, with a cycle life over several hundred-thousand cycles. Furthermore, the pseudocapacitance can increase the capacitance of an electrochemical capacitor by as much as an order of magnitude over that of the double-layer capacitance." > >http://www.thejoecell.com/ > >Hamish says: >" I believe the Joe Cell is essentially a kind of supercapacitor. It's similar in many ways to an old-fashioned >Leyden jar. It has the ability to absorb and hold a charge. Unlike a normal capacitor however, it does not >release that charge. It simply accumulates charge. In essence, it is an electron accumulator. " > >And I believe the Joe Cell pre-conditioning and ongoing electrolysis promotes >Exothermic Pseudo-Autoionization of the water followed by Solvation-Hydration >of the (OH-) (H+) and (H3O+) ions forming Nanoclusters/Droplets or Nanobubbles >the same as the Wilson Cloud Chamber or The Bubble Chamber used in >particle physics. > >And the ICE compression-pilot H2 ignition can release about 1,000 kJ/mole H2O >or up to 25,000 BTU/LB H2O "burned", which is about the same as Diesel fuel. > >Fred Sounds good Fred. Let's hope you're right. Frank From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 21 13:14:06 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6LKDvkB005963; Fri, 21 Jul 2006 13:13:57 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6LKDsjO005936; Fri, 21 Jul 2006 13:13:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 13:13:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00a201c6ad02$2c789e40$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 13:13:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69786 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: The way that you use it Status: O X-Status: In the category of the synchronous pseudo-merger of art and science ... As I was reading the excellent reference site that Fred found this morning (and learning about pseudo-capacitance): http://electrochem.cwru.edu/ed/encycl/art-c03-elchem-cap.htm ... this old tune came up on internet radio, and it seemed to express the instantaneous sentiment very well --- of how water can act as a "virtual" or pseudocapacitor.... IT'S IN THE WAY THAT YOU USE IT by Eric Clapton and Peter Robertson [this will perhaps mean more, if you have a vivid sound-memory of what a wailing Fender Stratocaster, like 'Blackie', sounded like a few decades ago] It's in the way that you use it, It comes and it goes. Nobody's right till somebody's wrong. Nobody's weak till somebody's strong. No one gets lucky till luck comes along. Nobody's lonely till somebody's gone. And if you lie you will lose it, Feelings will show. So don't you ever abuse it, Don't let it go. It's in the way that you use it, Boy don't you know. Boy don't you know. And to think that a sci-establishment, which put men on the moon, cured polio and ... err... brought us the iPod - and all those other marvelous things - has missed applying this most simple phenomenon to the energy crisis. It may not be the solution but my bet is that it will go a long way to ameliorate the situation - in the short term. Now --- there is the problem/opportunity of figuring out precisely - "The way that you use it" ... ...there's the no-rub ;-) ... No-rub, as in Teflon... Jones "Teflon" or PTFE or polytetrafluoroethylene was discovered in 1938 by Roy Plunkett of DuPont, previously a company better known for making gunpowder and by association - taking lives. But, once again, its all in "The way that you use it" as gunpowder-chemistry led directly to plastics. At DuPont's Jackson Laboratory in New Jersey, Plunkett was working with Freon-type refrigerants, when upon checking a compressed sample of tetrafluoroethylene, he discovered that the sample had turned to a solid. That is, it had polymerized spontaneously into a slippery waxy solid. It took a long time to figure out what to do with this "error" (kinda like Goodyear's) but - once again ,,, it goes back to "The way that you use it" ... My bit of pseudo-philoso-phissix for this lucky day 7/21. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 21 14:12:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6LJr0Nh024925; Fri, 21 Jul 2006 12:53:00 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6LJqunK024854; Fri, 21 Jul 2006 12:52:56 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 12:52:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=IvZG/9hFcPDjj5AMhFNgxM6CabJDP9Icjhgdk9p2B8L36ajHCtaxyoKFQp5iZNx8mfO8Hi5TXLWFmijhuEH3WfjmkNQR3n9FjIIaI6z4V1IonWkEdjQBBLdmLYPSMmk8HucUQZkZEL9a4XV/khGHGjHWdA/Tfg/YNA5HadV2upQ= Message-ID: Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 15:52:50 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69785 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Magnetic Disconnect Status: RO X-Status: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/07/19/null_point/ "The European satellite constellation Cluster has reported a first - it has seen a region of the Earth's magnetic field spontaneously reconfiguring itself. As well as breaking new scientific ground, the findings could have a practical application for scientists working on new ways of generating energy. In space, magnetic field are violent turbulent things - a world away from a familiar bar magnet. Different regions of magnetism behave something like large, plasma containing bubbles, ESA explains. When the bubbles are pushed together, the field lines can deform, then break and reconnect, forming a new, more stable arrangement. The exact point of the reconnection is called the "null point", and until now, scientists have never been able to observe one." From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 21 14:18:40 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6LLIBXe016420; Fri, 21 Jul 2006 14:18:12 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6LLI9Pd016365; Fri, 21 Jul 2006 14:18:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 14:18:08 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=ix.netcom.com; b=s6NzfCWMcGwT3vw6qtdcsY56sT+wgJ+Pornkt7xk51Pu6OfXS0wPMByJrANOiC8v; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <380-220067521211726840 ix.netcom.com> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: aki ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.122.0 (Windows) From: "" To: "vortex-l" Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 14:17:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: c4cc7f5f697e8746f66dc3a06d5924d88fb1f6571b944b79f6087a2471fd90309822d29d99174f51350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 216.175.78.6 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69787 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: FW: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday July 21, 2006 Status: RO X-Status: forward from aki ix.netcom.com (Akira Kawasaki) > [Original Message] > From: What's New To: Date: 7/21/2006 1:56:35 PM Subject: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday July 21, 2006 WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 21 Jul 06 Washington, DC 1. STEM CELLS: PRESIDENT BUSH CHOOSES SUPERSTITION OVER SCIENCE. On Wednesday, Mr. Bush vetoed the "Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act." The first veto of his presidency was exercised to protect surplus embryonic stem cells in fertility clinics from research, thus preserving their "dignity" so they can be put out with the garbage. He did so on the grounds that using them in research would be "murder." This is based on the ancient belief in a "vital life force," or "soul," which is said by some Christians to be assigned at conception. The first sign of differentiation in embryonic cells occurs in about 8 weeks. Jews, however, say that infants don't get a soul until they draw their first breath. They cite Genesis: "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." On the other hand, superstition may not be the best guide. Why not turn to science? 2. BUBBLE FUSION: SOMETIMES SCIENCE HAS TROUBLE GETTING ANSWERS. Four years ago Rusi Taleyarkhan, then at Oak Ridge, claimed in Science magazine that he had achieved d-d fusion in collapsing bubbles http://bobpark.physics.umd.edu/WN02/wn030102.html . The bubble burst three months later, but he moved to Purdue and again claimed fusion. Others still found nothing. In March of 2006, Purdue, citing "extremely serious concerns," announced a full review of Taleyarkhan's work. A story in Nature this week raises serious questions about slow progress and secrecy of the review. 3. ABM SYSTEM: THE DEBATE NEVER ENDS; THE DEFENSE NEVER WORKS. In 1984, President Reagan called on the scientific community to render nuclear missiles "impotent and obsolete" with the Star Wars missile defense system. Nine years and $30B later SDI was terminated. There was nothing to show for it. George W. Bush, who knows as much science as Reagan did, declared we would have a missile defense by 2004. When North Korea announced last month it would test a missile capable of reaching San Francisco, the Pentagon revealed our missile defense had never been turned on. Why bother? The reason ballistic missile are such a powerful threat is that they are virtually unstoppable, but if we learned anything from 9/11 it is that terrorists can strike us without ballistic missiles. We have only the threat of preemptive strikes or retaliation. The Wall Street Journal today called for an ABM system to deter terror regimes, "they won't invest their money in weapons that won't work." No, only we do that. 4. PENANCE: WN READERS SHOWED NO MERCY IN REACHING A CONSENSUS. Last week I agreed to any penance readers thought appropriate for allowing myself to be used on the (bleep) ABC Primetime program about Adam Dreamhealer. By consensus I mean two readers called for the same punishment. I am to obtain a DVD of "What the Bleep Do We Know" and watch it all the way through - twice. THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND. Opinions are the author's and not necessarily shared by the University of Maryland, but they should be. --- Archives of What's New can be found at http://www.bobpark.org What's New is moving to a different listserver and our subscription process has changed. To change your subscription status please visit this link: http://listserv.umd.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=bobparks-whatsnew&A=1 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 21 14:23:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6LLMxJ7020005; Fri, 21 Jul 2006 14:23:00 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6LLMv0Q019982; Fri, 21 Jul 2006 14:22:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 14:22:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=ix.netcom.com; b=M6IzuMiiR+s1VN/8scvv2CpOr8MV5EjG8n1dZRe337/zoVNivqKyDSFz8TRnNs1q; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <380-22006752121236830 ix.netcom.com> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: aki ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.122.0 (Windows) From: "" To: "vortex-l" Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 14:23:06 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: c4cc7f5f697e8746f66dc3a06d5924d88fb1f6571b944b79f576d56937cecc42387f7b89c61deb1d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 216.175.78.6 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69788 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: (VO) FW: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday July 21, 2006 Status: RO X-Status: > From: > To: vortex-l > Date: 7/21/2006 2:17:23 PM > Subject: FW: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday July 21, 2006 > forward from aki ix.netcom.com (Akira Kawasaki) > [Original Message] > From: What's New To: Date: 7/21/2006 1:56:35 PM Subject: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday July 21, 2006 WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 21 Jul 06 Washington, DC 1. STEM CELLS: PRESIDENT BUSH CHOOSES SUPERSTITION OVER SCIENCE. On Wednesday, Mr. Bush vetoed the "Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act." The first veto of his presidency was exercised to protect surplus embryonic stem cells in fertility clinics from research, thus preserving their "dignity" so they can be put out with the garbage. He did so on the grounds that using them in research would be "murder." This is based on the ancient belief in a "vital life force," or "soul," which is said by some Christians to be assigned at conception. The first sign of differentiation in embryonic cells occurs in about 8 weeks. Jews, however, say that infants don't get a soul until they draw their first breath. They cite Genesis: "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." On the other hand, superstition may not be the best guide. Why not turn to science? 2. BUBBLE FUSION: SOMETIMES SCIENCE HAS TROUBLE GETTING ANSWERS. Four years ago Rusi Taleyarkhan, then at Oak Ridge, claimed in Science magazine that he had achieved d-d fusion in collapsing bubbles http://bobpark.physics.umd.edu/WN02/wn030102.html . The bubble burst three months later, but he moved to Purdue and again claimed fusion. Others still found nothing. In March of 2006, Purdue, citing "extremely serious concerns," announced a full review of Taleyarkhan's work. A story in Nature this week raises serious questions about slow progress and secrecy of the review. 3. ABM SYSTEM: THE DEBATE NEVER ENDS; THE DEFENSE NEVER WORKS. In 1984, President Reagan called on the scientific community to render nuclear missiles "impotent and obsolete" with the Star Wars missile defense system. Nine years and $30B later SDI was terminated. There was nothing to show for it. George W. Bush, who knows as much science as Reagan did, declared we would have a missile defense by 2004. When North Korea announced last month it would test a missile capable of reaching San Francisco, the Pentagon revealed our missile defense had never been turned on. Why bother? The reason ballistic missile are such a powerful threat is that they are virtually unstoppable, but if we learned anything from 9/11 it is that terrorists can strike us without ballistic missiles. We have only the threat of preemptive strikes or retaliation. The Wall Street Journal today called for an ABM system to deter terror regimes, "they won't invest their money in weapons that won't work." No, only we do that. 4. PENANCE: WN READERS SHOWED NO MERCY IN REACHING A CONSENSUS. Last week I agreed to any penance readers thought appropriate for allowing myself to be used on the (bleep) ABC Primetime program about Adam Dreamhealer. By consensus I mean two readers called for the same punishment. I am to obtain a DVD of "What the Bleep Do We Know" and watch it all the way through - twice. THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND. Opinions are the author's and not necessarily shared by the University of Maryland, but they should be. --- Archives of What's New can be found at http://www.bobpark.org What's New is moving to a different listserver and our subscription process has changed. To change your subscription status please visit this link: http://listserv.umd.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=bobparks-whatsnew&A=1 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 21 15:54:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6LMrlGE011394; Fri, 21 Jul 2006 15:53:48 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6LMrhrx011348; Fri, 21 Jul 2006 15:53:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 15:53:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-CVTV-Spamfilter: Scanned X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Virus-Scanned: by McAfee Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <000c01c6ad18$7c632310$a5037841 xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: [VO]:Re: The way you use it Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:53:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C6ACEE.92EFC9A0"; type="multipart/alternative" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: <_GoTTD.A.MxC.2rVwEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69789 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C6ACEE.92EFC9A0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0009_01C6ACEE.92F15040" ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C6ACEE.92F15040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankJones wrote.. Boy don't you know. And to think that a sci-establishment, which=20 put men on the moon, cured polio and ... err... brought us the=20 iPod - and all those other marvelous things - has missed applying=20 this most simple phenomenon to the energy crisis. It may not be=20 the solution but my bet is that it will go a long way to=20 ameliorate the situation - in the short term. Now --- there is the problem/opportunity of figuring out=20 precisely - "The way that you use it" ... ...there's the no-rub ;-) ... No-rub, as in Teflon... Howdy Jones, Conversation recently regarding US auto makers. I predicted only two = makers in the world would survive. Toyota and Benz. Plus, Harley ( higher market cap that GM). why? because one is owned by = Germany Inc and the other by Japan Inc. Each in turn own their = respective governments. Only one commercial airframe maker will = survive.. Airbus.=20 Only one petroleum firm will survive.. Shell, BP and Exxon.. already a = single entity when you think about it. The sad part is these firms have the seeds of self destruction sewn = within because it becomes simply impossible for an organization that = size to function as a single entity... Why? ...lack of competition. The = great motivator.. nothing happens until a force is applied. Kennedy triggered the man on the moon... it was based on competition.=20 Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C6ACEE.92F15040 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Jones wrote..
 
Boy don't you know. And to think that a sci-establishment, which =
put=20 men on the moon, cured polio and ... err... brought us the
iPod - = and all=20 those other marvelous things - has missed applying
this most simple=20 phenomenon to the energy crisis. It may not be
the solution but my = bet is=20 that it will go a long way to
ameliorate the situation - in the = short=20 term.

Now --- there is the problem/opportunity of figuring out=20
precisely -  "The way that you use it" ...

...there's = the=20 no-rub  ;-)  ... No-rub, as in Teflon...
 
Howdy Jones,
 
Conversation recently regarding US auto makers. I predicted only = two makers=20 in the world would survive. Toyota and Benz.
Plus,  Harley ( higher market cap that GM). why? because one = is owned=20 by Germany Inc and the other by Japan Inc. Each in turn own their = respective=20 governments. Only one commercial airframe maker will survive.. Airbus. =
Only one petroleum firm will survive.. Shell, BP and Exxon.. = already a=20 single entity when you think about it.
The sad part is these firms have the seeds of self destruction sewn = within=20 because it becomes simply impossible for an organization that size to = function=20 as a single entity... Why? ...lack of competition. The great motivator.. = nothing=20 happens until a force is applied.
Kennedy triggered the man on the moon... it was based on = competition.=20
 
Richard
 
 


 

 

------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C6ACEE.92F15040-- ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C6ACEE.92EFC9A0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000701c6ad18$7bb99ca0$a5037841 xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C6ACEE.92EFC9A0-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 21 16:19:37 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6LNIsxM025389; Fri, 21 Jul 2006 16:18:55 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6LNIpiU025341; Fri, 21 Jul 2006 16:18:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 16:18:49 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: TrevStar22 aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 19:18:44 EDT To: vortex-L eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1153523924" X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5314 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69790 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Now Teeth Can Be Regrown Status: O X-Status: -------------------------------1153523924 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everyone, apparently we now have the technology to regrow teeth, also to help regenerate receding gums or bone in the mouth. _http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/06/28/060628204537.2422eofv.html_ (http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/06/28/060628204537.2422eofv.html) What information I found out from other articles. The procedure requires 20 minutes a day with results in 4 weeks. The root of the tooth must be there. The tooth regrows but without enamel. Trevor -------------------------------1153523924 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
 
          Hello everyone,=20 apparently we now have the technology to regrow teeth, also to help regenera= te=20 receding gums or bone in the mouth.
 
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/06/28/060628204537.2422eofv.html
 
         What information I fou= nd=20 out from other articles.  The procedure requires 20 minutes a day with=20 results in 4 weeks.  The root of the tooth must be there.  The too= th=20 regrows but without enamel.
 
            = ;     =20 Trevor
 -------------------------------1153523924-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 21 17:12:46 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6M0CJ4M023790; Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:12:20 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6M0CFnt023753; Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:12:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:12:15 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=gfRz0Z9g1n4Ne2+x5+q9s5LMSihLv1LT+8Hb7mcH1NJjQqCl5SZy6/pB96nNvD5e1VD+GLVkIQotJOyJa+bfnabB3ecDQ88ZGafOIUwBERqOgbAWJULPFYMCJcql+ZtVtwpm4r8bAeg8FuaXqgrqEQuHJK6XhFKhgzpLo7uGMaI= Message-ID: Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:10:35 -0700 From: "leaking pen" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Now Teeth Can Be Regrown In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_34117_4808209.1153527035444" References: Resent-Message-ID: <3iFO9B.A.-yF.e1WwEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69792 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_Part_34117_4808209.1153527035444 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline hmm, regrowing jawbone, we already have. parts of teeth, we already have. but this is nice. On 7/21/06, TrevStar22 aol.com wrote: > > > > Hello everyone, apparently we now have the technology to regrow > teeth, also to help regenerate receding gums or bone in the mouth. > > http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/06/28/060628204537.2422eofv.html > > What information I found out from other articles. The procedure > requires 20 minutes a day with results in 4 weeks. The root of the tooth > must be there. The tooth regrows but without enamel. > > Trevor > -- That which yields isn't always weak. ------=_Part_34117_4808209.1153527035444 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline hmm, regrowing jawbone, we already have.  parts of teeth, we already have.  but this is nice.

On 7/21/06, TrevStar22@aol.com <TrevStar22@aol.com> wrote:
 
 
          Hello everyone, apparently we now have the technology to regrow teeth, also to help regenerate receding gums or bone in the mouth.
 
 
         What information I found out from other articles.  The procedure requires 20 minutes a day with results in 4 weeks.  The root of the tooth must be there.  The tooth regrows but without enamel.
 
                  Trevor



--
That which yields isn't always weak. ------=_Part_34117_4808209.1153527035444-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 21 17:23:27 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6M0AALk022731; Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:10:11 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6M0A7Gm022667; Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:10:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:10:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: "Anthony" To: Subject: RE: [Vo]: Now Teeth Can Be Regrown Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 19:09:41 -0500 Message-ID: <000801c6ad23$21943720$0601a8c0 STUFFMARTUSA2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C6ACF9.38BE2F20" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69791 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C6ACF9.38BE2F20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit teeth actually regrow (remineralize) on their own naturally.. -----Original Message----- From: TrevStar22 aol.com [mailto:TrevStar22@aol.com] Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 6:19 PM To: vortex-L eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Now Teeth Can Be Regrown Hello everyone, apparently we now have the technology to regrow teeth, also to help regenerate receding gums or bone in the mouth. http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/06/28/060628204537.2422eofv.html What information I found out from other articles. The procedure requires 20 minutes a day with results in 4 weeks. The root of the tooth must be there. The tooth regrows but without enamel. Trevor -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/361 - Release Date: 6/11/2006 ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C6ACF9.38BE2F20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
teeth actually regrow = (remineralize) on=20 their own naturally.. 
-----Original Message-----
From: = TrevStar22 aol.com=20 [mailto:TrevStar22 aol.com]
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 = 6:19=20 PM
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]: Now = Teeth Can Be=20 Regrown

 
 
          Hello = everyone,=20 apparently we now have the technology to regrow teeth, also to help = regenerate=20 receding gums or bone in the mouth.
 
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/06/28/060628204537.2422eofv.html
 
         What information = I found=20 out from other articles.  The procedure requires 20 minutes a day = with=20 results in 4 weeks.  The root of the tooth must be there.  = The tooth=20 regrows but without enamel.
 
=
           &n= bsp;     =20 Trevor

--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG = Free=20 Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/361 - Release = Date:=20 6/11/2006

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C6ACF9.38BE2F20-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 22 06:08:34 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6MD8EYh003143; Sat, 22 Jul 2006 06:08:14 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6MD8B6o003115; Sat, 22 Jul 2006 06:08:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 06:08:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-CVTV-Spamfilter: Scanned X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Virus-Scanned: by McAfee Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <000801c6ad8f$dcd19890$29027841 xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: [VO]: Lack of fast buck Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 08:08:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C6AD65.F3798F50" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69793 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C6AD65.F3798F50 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0005_01C6AD65.F3798F50" ------=_NextPart_001_0005_01C6AD65.F3798F50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankHowdy Vorts, Today's business environment mindset is on the fast buck, the safe buck, = the insured buck, something for nothing , let the other guy work and pay = me, where's the government money and I'll have to get back to you cuz = it's tee time. Looking for new energy, free energy, alternate energy, cleaner renewable = energy, environmentally friendly green energy? Step over here in this = room with the foil windows. Don't you just love Saturday mornings. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0005_01C6AD65.F3798F50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Howdy Vorts,
 
Today's business environment mindset is on the fast buck, the safe = buck,=20 the insured buck, something for nothing , let the other guy work and pay = me,=20 where's the government money and I'll have to get back to you cuz it's = tee=20 time.
 
Looking for new energy, free energy, alternate energy, cleaner = renewable=20 energy, environmentally friendly green energy? Step over here in this = room =20 with the foil windows.
 
Don't you just love Saturday mornings.
 
Richard

 

------=_NextPart_001_0005_01C6AD65.F3798F50-- ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C6AD65.F3798F50 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000301c6ad8f$dc4b0370$29027841 xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C6AD65.F3798F50-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 22 08:22:03 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6MFLW4a028183; Sat, 22 Jul 2006 08:21:33 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6MFLT7x028130; Sat, 22 Jul 2006 08:21:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 08:21:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <002601c6ada2$7ee74230$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 08:21:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69795 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: H-Prize Looming? Status: O X-Status: A little incentive is nice... But trying to follow the progress (through the maze of Congress) of this potentially important legislation is not that easy. Now there appear to be four versions of the X-prize bill (HR 5143): http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:h.r.5143 But one version has apparently gone to the Senate - and there are always hopes that it will be considered for vote soon - as Senators seem more supportive than other legislators. Maybe the genius - Bush - will veto it in the end - who knows how much stupidity is recirculating in the Beltway these days? The H-Prize is intended to attract the brightest minds to attack technological obstacles of moving to a hydrogen economy. This will surely jeopardize oil company profits - so who knows about getting incentives passed. We have seen a lot of 'hollow-talk' about hydrogen and energy-independence coming from this Administration : is all sound and fury... ? The H-prize was modeled after the successful $10-million Ansari X Prize awarded for entrepreneurial space flight. Of most interest to your-truly, and maybe a few others, is the four $1-million prizes to be awarded annually in hydrogen production. Will one be available in 2006? A fairly simple water pretreatment regime, combined with a small electrolysis unit - in every automobile could make the US (in theory) self-sufficient on petroleum (if you are an "optimistic-extrapolator," that is ;-)... That level of "independence" can never happen in actuality, due to the lethargy of the infrastructure- but any reduction in oil imports could be important, and allow us to "buy time" as they say. The creators of the Ansari X Prize announced that they too are forming a new Automotive X Prize to focus on the creation of new fuel-efficient vehicles that far exceed anything available on the market today. http://www.xprizefoundation.com/prizes/xprize_automotive.asp Rules for the Automotive X Prize may be announced soon, but every time I check it seems they have been pushed back. Anyway, I am planning an official entry into either of these or both - based on improving the results which have been alluded to in recent postings here. Most of the ideas are derivative from what is known loosely as the Joe_Cell combined with the "hydrobooster" and input from Fred and other Vos. If anyone out there in Volandia is interested in contributing to a joint effort - let me know. Post directly to me please. All past and future input will be recognized in any final accounting, should miracles happen. There are many challenges and it would take a large R&D organization to address them all adequately. Here is one instance - and it may be the last I post on this -IF- there is to be a substantial prize. After all, even alternative-energy-activists enjoy the spirit of competition. But this is indicative of the many problems which arise with anything new. Proto-fact#1 : pretreated water allows for a drastically enhanced production of hydrogen gas in electrolysis. That is major news in itself, but there is a glaring Catch-22. Compared to using regular water in electrolysis, one can get massively more combustible gas than with untreated water (using the most optimistic indicators, of course - but lacking firm data) but the Catch is this - after about 5% of the original supply of treated water has been depleted, the increase stops, and you have returned to essentially normal water. Not hopeless. A partial solution to this predicament is somewhat obvious - that being a much larger and ongoing pretreatment setup - with some kind of separation mechanism so that an active level of pretreated water is continuously fed to an electrolysis unit - and depleted water returned. Fortunately, there appears to be a density-gradient to work with. Even so: "easier said then done" - since when you do the numbers, you are going from half-liters and watts --> to 20 gallons and hundreds of watts; and finding a way to separate the active component is probably going to be a big issue. Still the bottom line situation is this: dime-to-dollars. You put a dime of electricity into a pretreatment regime and you return about $2-3 in the cost of gasoline (almost a gallon) based on extrapolating the apparent increase in mileage which has been seen (for a few minutes). At least that is the way the situation stands .... but needless to say - dangling a million-dollar carrot out there will likely motivate potential sponsors to get involved... even if the results seem "impossible". OTOH maybe orgone is really in there - and it makes you crazy ... Given the Stem-cell legislation veto, there must be an orgone leak in the Rose Garden- or so it would seem. One wonders if there is any hope for the HR 5143 ($ m,m) incentive, given the blatantly anti-scientific pandering being witnessed there ... But looking on the bright side, this is an important election year - and the CEO of Chevron has the same number of votes as the average-Joe (of the Joe_Cell persuasion ;-) and the immoral-majority (700 Club) has no problem with hydrogen AFAIK. Jones From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 22 09:14:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6MGEPwK002798; Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:14:25 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6MGELJ4002729; Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:14:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:14:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <000801c6ada9$d8736fc0$0600a8c0 nixlaptop> From: "Nick Palmer" To: "Vortex-L" Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 17:13:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C6ADB2.37095420" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69796 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Biomass into ethanol Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C6ADB2.37095420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here's an interesting article about converting waste biomass into = ethanol. http://www.technologyreview.com/read_article.aspx?id=3D17052&ch=3Dbiztech= And, especially for "biomass Fred Sparber", here's a link to someone who = has researched sweet sorghum as a "low input" source crop... http://www.sorganol.com/ ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C6ADB2.37095420 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Here's an interesting article about = converting=20 waste biomass into ethanol.
 
 
http://www.technologyreview.com/read_article.aspx?id=3D1705= 2&ch=3Dbiztech
 
And, especially for "biomass Fred = Sparber",=20 here's a link to someone who has researched sweet sorghum as a "low = input"=20 source crop...
 
http://www.sorganol.com/
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C6ADB2.37095420-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 22 09:22:31 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6MGLxOl007513; Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:22:00 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6MGLsA2007444; Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:21:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:21:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=fS9vFmGcgi5DN7F+NUg3fZ+hAAU1sNCNbAjXoejdFA3jOKwOFnIc/7dN2EmY8ymrmoXTl8gat++Zu3DyACt8Ul6pzuSJ2xO9QBrooWedg3BinYV2FqK9gFRr/jHhAYo7jDYXXm7wRnJHo0ew7kEeIm8mOwW9jJIWdhnNfFaln6w= ; Message-ID: <20060722162146.99208.qmail web33311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:21:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Arnold Subject: Re: [Vo]: H-Prize Looming? To: vortex-l eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <002601c6ada2$7ee74230$6401a8c0 NuDell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1461372707-1153585306=:98250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <5MUkSC.A.C0B.gClwEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69797 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --0-1461372707-1153585306=:98250 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jones, I have posted many times in the past on how my Plasma device is the answer to efficient Hydrogen production, and my non-detonation nanodiamond is one very novel answer to efficient storage of hydrogen. Chris Jones Beene wrote: A little incentive is nice... But trying to follow the progress (through the maze of Congress) of this potentially important legislation is not that easy. Now there appear to be four versions of the X-prize bill (HR 5143): http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:h.r.5143 But one version has apparently gone to the Senate - and there are always hopes that it will be considered for vote soon - as Senators seem more supportive than other legislators. Maybe the genius - Bush - will veto it in the end - who knows how much stupidity is recirculating in the Beltway these days? The H-Prize is intended to attract the brightest minds to attack technological obstacles of moving to a hydrogen economy. This will surely jeopardize oil company profits - so who knows about getting incentives passed. We have seen a lot of 'hollow-talk' about hydrogen and energy-independence coming from this Administration : is all sound and fury... ? The H-prize was modeled after the successful $10-million Ansari X Prize awarded for entrepreneurial space flight. Of most interest to your-truly, and maybe a few others, is the four $1-million prizes to be awarded annually in hydrogen production. Will one be available in 2006? A fairly simple water pretreatment regime, combined with a small electrolysis unit - in every automobile could make the US (in theory) self-sufficient on petroleum (if you are an "optimistic-extrapolator," that is ;-)... That level of "independence" can never happen in actuality, due to the lethargy of the infrastructure- but any reduction in oil imports could be important, and allow us to "buy time" as they say. The creators of the Ansari X Prize announced that they too are forming a new Automotive X Prize to focus on the creation of new fuel-efficient vehicles that far exceed anything available on the market today. http://www.xprizefoundation.com/prizes/xprize_automotive.asp Rules for the Automotive X Prize may be announced soon, but every time I check it seems they have been pushed back. Anyway, I am planning an official entry into either of these or both - based on improving the results which have been alluded to in recent postings here. Most of the ideas are derivative from what is known loosely as the Joe_Cell combined with the "hydrobooster" and input from Fred and other Vos. If anyone out there in Volandia is interested in contributing to a joint effort - let me know. Post directly to me please. All past and future input will be recognized in any final accounting, should miracles happen. There are many challenges and it would take a large R&D organization to address them all adequately. Here is one instance - and it may be the last I post on this -IF- there is to be a substantial prize. After all, even alternative-energy-activists enjoy the spirit of competition. But this is indicative of the many problems which arise with anything new. Proto-fact#1 : pretreated water allows for a drastically enhanced production of hydrogen gas in electrolysis. That is major news in itself, but there is a glaring Catch-22. Compared to using regular water in electrolysis, one can get massively more combustible gas than with untreated water (using the most optimistic indicators, of course - but lacking firm data) but the Catch is this - after about 5% of the original supply of treated water has been depleted, the increase stops, and you have returned to essentially normal water. Not hopeless. A partial solution to this predicament is somewhat obvious - that being a much larger and ongoing pretreatment setup - with some kind of separation mechanism so that an active level of pretreated water is continuously fed to an electrolysis unit - and depleted water returned. Fortunately, there appears to be a density-gradient to work with. Even so: "easier said then done" - since when you do the numbers, you are going from half-liters and watts --> to 20 gallons and hundreds of watts; and finding a way to separate the active component is probably going to be a big issue. Still the bottom line situation is this: dime-to-dollars. You put a dime of electricity into a pretreatment regime and you return about $2-3 in the cost of gasoline (almost a gallon) based on extrapolating the apparent increase in mileage which has been seen (for a few minutes). At least that is the way the situation stands .... but needless to say - dangling a million-dollar carrot out there will likely motivate potential sponsors to get involved... even if the results seem "impossible". OTOH maybe orgone is really in there - and it makes you crazy ... Given the Stem-cell legislation veto, there must be an orgone leak in the Rose Garden- or so it would seem. One wonders if there is any hope for the HR 5143 ($ m,m) incentive, given the blatantly anti-scientific pandering being witnessed there ... But looking on the bright side, this is an important election year - and the CEO of Chevron has the same number of votes as the average-Joe (of the Joe_Cell persuasion ;-) and the immoral-majority (700 Club) has no problem with hydrogen AFAIK. Jones --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. --0-1461372707-1153585306=:98250 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Jones,
 
I have posted many times in the past on how my Plasma device is the answer to efficient Hydrogen production, and my non-detonation nanodiamond is one very novel answer to efficient storage of hydrogen.
 
Chris

Jones Beene <jonesb9 pacbell.net> wrote:
A little incentive is nice...

But trying to follow the progress (through the maze of Congress)
of this potentially important legislation is not that easy. Now
there appear to be four versions of the X-prize bill (HR 5143):

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:h.r.5143

But one version has apparently gone to the Senate - and there are
always hopes that it will be considered for vote soon - as
Senators seem more supportive than other legislators. Maybe the
genius - Bush - will veto it in the end - who knows how much
stupidity is recirculating in the Beltway these days?

The H-Prize is intended to attract the brightest minds to attack
technological obstacles of moving to a hydrogen economy. This will
surely jeopardize oil company profits - so who knows about getting
incentives passed. We have seen a lot of 'hollow-talk' about
hydrogen and energy-independence coming from this Administration :
is all sound and fury... ?

The H-prize was modeled after the successful $10-million Ansari X
Prize awarded for entrepreneurial space flight. Of most interest
to your-truly, and maybe a few others, is the four $1-million
prizes to be awarded annually in hydrogen production. Will one be
available in 2006?

A fairly simple water pretreatment regime, combined with a small
electrolysis unit - in every automobile could make the US (in
theory) self-sufficient on petroleum (if you are an
"optimistic-extrapolator," that is ;-)... That level of
"independence" can never happen in actuality, due to the lethargy
of the infrastructure- but any reduction in oil imports could be
important, and allow us to "buy time" as they say.

The creators of the Ansari X Prize announced that they too are
forming a new Automotive X Prize to focus on the creation of new
fuel-efficient vehicles that far exceed anything available on the
market today.
http://www.xprizefoundation.com/prizes/xprize_automotive.asp

Rules for the Automotive X Prize may be announced soon, but every
time I check it seems they have been pushed back.

Anyway, I am planning an official entry into either of these or
both - based on improving the results which have been alluded to
in recent postings here. Most of the ideas are derivative from
what is known loosely as the Joe_Cell combined with the
"hydrobooster" and input from Fred and other Vos. If anyone out
there in Volandia is interested in contributing to a joint
effort - let me know. Post directly to me please. All past and
future input will be recognized in any final accounting, should
miracles happen. There are many challenges and it would take a
large R&D organization to address them all adequately.

Here is one instance - and it may be the last I post on this -IF-
there is to be a substantial prize. After all, even
alternative-energy-activists enjoy the spirit of competition. But
this is indicative of the many problems which arise with anything
new.

Proto-fact#1 : pretreated water allows for a drastically enhanced
production of hydrogen gas in electrolysis.

That is major news in itself, but there is a glaring Catch-22.
Compared to using regular water in electrolysis, one can get
massively more combustible gas than with untreated water (using
the most optimistic indicators, of course - but lacking firm data)
but the Catch is this - after about 5% of the original supply of
treated water has been depleted, the increase stops, and you have
returned to essentially normal water.

Not hopeless. A partial solution to this predicament is somewhat
obvious - that being a much larger and ongoing pretreatment
setup - with some kind of separation mechanism so that an active
level of pretreated water is continuously fed to an electrolysis
unit - and depleted water returned. Fortunately, there appears to
be a density-gradient to work with.

Even so: "easier said then done" - since when you do the numbers,
you are going from half-liters and watts --> to 20 gallons and
hundreds of watts; and finding a way to separate the active
component is probably going to be a big issue.

Still the bottom line situation is this: dime-to-dollars.

You put a dime of electricity into a pretreatment regime and you
return about $2-3 in the cost of gasoline (almost a gallon) based
on extrapolating the apparent increase in mileage which has been
seen (for a few minutes). At least that is the way the situation
stands .... but needless to say - dangling a million-dollar carrot
out there will likely motivate potential sponsors to get
involved... even if the results seem "impossible".

OTOH maybe orgone is really in there - and it makes you crazy ...


Given the Stem-cell legislation veto, there must be an orgone leak
in the Rose Garden- or so it would seem. One wonders if there is
any hope for the HR 5143 ($ m,m) incentive, given the blatantly
anti-scientific pandering being witnessed there ... But looking on
the bright side, this is an important election year - and the CEO
of Chevron has the same number of votes as the average-Joe (of the
Joe_Cell persuasion ;-) and the immoral-majority (700 Club) has no
problem with hydrogen AFAIK.

Jones


Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. --0-1461372707-1153585306=:98250-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 22 09:39:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6MGdC9B019173; Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:39:12 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6MGd6r7019113; Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:39:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:39:04 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <005601c6adad$54cd0e70$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <20060722162146.99208.qmail web33311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:38:58 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: <9J45V.A.OqE.oSlwEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69798 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: H-Prize Looming? Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: Christopher Arnold > I have posted many times in the past on how my Plasma device is > the answer to efficient Hydrogen production .... Then by all means, it would seem prudent that you document your findings, have them independently verified - and apply for the prize.... ... unless of course, W pulls out his veto pen again. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 22 09:45:46 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6MGjS7Y023613; Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:45:29 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6MGjPeP023578; Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:45:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:45:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060722164520944.170A53C0009A mwinf3212.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060722164518.009ca1e8 pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 17:45:18 +0100 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Grimer Resent-Message-ID: <0xZ0KD.A.IwF.kYlwEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69799 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: For Joe Cell Lovers Status: O X-Status: Have now finished reading Franks's "Polywater". I can see why established scientists don't want to get involved in cold fusion - or even a rose by any other name. 8-) The problem these people have is that they are reductionists to a man. They imagine they can solve this kind of conundrum from the bottom up whereas if they took a top down view they would realise that water must have all kinds of complex structures within it - just like concrete or clays - and the idea of "sieving" out a particular level of structure is entirely reasonable. What I found particularly contemptible was the way that Deryagin did a volte-face when the going got tough. Still, since it wasn't his baby but Fedyakin's, like the woman before the Solomon, he was prepared to let the butchers finish Polly off. =================================== ait date huic infantem vivum et non occidatur haec est mater eius =================================== Frank Grimer From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 22 09:55:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6MGtWAA029587; Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:55:33 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6MGtTtD029549; Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:55:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:55:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <006d01c6adaf$a221e450$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <2.2.32.20060722164518.009ca1e8 pop.freeserve.net> Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:55:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69800 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: For Joe Cell Lovers Status: O X-Status: Frank, > What I found particularly contemptible was the way that Deryagin > did a volte-face when the going got tough. ...volte-face... hmm... sci-pun or no: http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/archive/2002/02/01.html From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 22 10:10:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6MHAPml008116; Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:10:26 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6MH4lLd004215; Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:04:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:04:47 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060722170441627.993EF1C00090 mwinf3202.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060722170440.00c2b80c pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 18:04:40 +0100 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Grimer Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: For Joe Cell Lovers Resent-Message-ID: <2EY08D.A.tBB.vqlwEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69801 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:55 am 22/07/2006 -0700, you wrote: >Frank, > >> What I found particularly contemptible was the way that Deryagin >> did a volte-face when the going got tough. > >...volte-face... hmm... sci-pun or no: >http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/archive/2002/02/01.html Err...? Too deep for me, Jones <8^] From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 22 11:53:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6MIrVAF013104; Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:53:32 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6MIrTGT013071; Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:53:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:53:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-ME-UUID: 20060722185121289.468621C00083 mwinf3204.me.freeserve.com Message-Id: <2.2.32.20060722185120.00b79074 pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: grimer2.freeserve.co.uk pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 19:51:20 +0100 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Grimer Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69802 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: For Joe Cell Lovers Status: O X-Status: I can now see that under the 36,000 atmosphere pressure on water implicit in the PV^6 = constant relation two molecules of oxygen dihydride (aka H2O) undergo a phase change to one molecule of oxygen trihydride and one molecule of oxygen monohydride. 2[OH2] -> OH3 + OH The diamond like OH3 tetrahedrons are the SOLID PHASE in compression (positive strain energy and the OH molecules are the FLUID PHASE in balancing tension (negative strain energy). In short water is full of what one might call diamond ice. But is there among the eleven known forms of ice an ice which fits the bill. Yes there is. It's ICE VIII http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/phase.html http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/ice_viii.html which has a density "of about 1.66 g cm-3" and explains the anomalous density of water. Also it is formed under a pressure of 80 thousand atmospheres which is in the same ball park as the PV^6 = a constant relationship. What one has to realise is that as one goes down is size, one can get increasingly large strain energy differentials, not only in solids, but also in liquids. The above oxygen hydride equation is just one such example at a scale slightly larger than the OH2 -> OH + H scale. Anyway, Jones should be happy cos it looks as though his ICE engine will be running on ICE after all. 8-) Cheers, Frank Grimer ============================ Foederis Arca, Ora pro nobis ============================ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 22 07:10:40 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6MEA8NH009916; Sat, 22 Jul 2006 07:10:23 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6MDnC7N029278; Sat, 22 Jul 2006 06:49:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 06:49:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Sender:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=UeK2OtB4CrgeOEd419eVaf4xXVdaxdH54H3RC2SsTjxizIOYuelhMChU/USrIT9GjIwLtRnJtmyrPNw6s2h03LToWuXmy+9Oyj9KiMVYbytqzWE7iJOGeVCSS8fRwVi/n1y/xpftGjyOVEE/+xGCxndpJCxn+MNHBkw0rLvX52Y= ; Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.1.20060722094539.00ba6fe8 pop> X-Sender: philip.winestone pop X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.1.1 Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:47:40 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Philip Winestone Subject: Re: [VO]: Lack of fast buck In-Reply-To: <000801c6ad8f$dcd19890$29027841 xptower> References: <000801c6ad8f$dcd19890$29027841 xptower> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69794 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends5 Status: RO X-Status: Or said another way (as I keep telling anyone who'll listen): You don't get nuthin' for nuthin' (no matter how good the deal sounds). P. At 08:08 AM 7/22/2006 -0500, you wrote: >Howdy Vorts, > >Today's business environment mindset is on the fast buck, the safe buck, >the insured buck, something for nothing , let the other guy work and pay >me, where's the government money and I'll have to get back to you cuz it's >tee time. > >Looking for new energy, free energy, alternate energy, cleaner renewable >energy, environmentally friendly green energy? Step over here in this >room with the foil windows. > >Don't you just love Saturday mornings. > >Richard > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 23 05:11:20 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6NCBAvI018888; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 05:11:10 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6NCB8ve018864; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 05:11:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 05:11:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=tPosPrfc/XFBeUx1SB9HfOVTr4aO/GWrc8+qzb75mx1lCGQKLAkTWebnXXcSFh1M; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006702312115344 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 06:11:05 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9405d54a6a487993ee1f2e5aeee8b9b3092350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.154 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69803 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: More On Waterfuel/Joe Cell Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII This should keep Grimer and Jones out of trouble for the day. :-) http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/index2.html http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/ionis.html Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

This should keep Grimer and Jones out of trouble for the day.   :-)
 
 
 
 
 
Fred
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 23 05:39:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6NCcvms004246; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 05:38:57 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6NCct0S004222; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 05:38:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 05:38:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=KZ5a5OMOls67ReYhT603NiFUHCyXMVBO3vFDcADPYBMnhJ+4/nZ8eTEG7cqQZgNP; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220067023123851149 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 06:38:51 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940e55af9c8ef0f3f82d76ff32c98eaf0a8350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.154 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69804 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: More On Waterfuel/Joe Cell Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII 16 July 2006 Update. http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/explan4.html#elec ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l eskimo.com Sent: 7/23/2006 6:11:34 AM Subject: [Vo]: Re: More On Waterfuel/Joe Cell This should keep Grimer and Jones out of trouble for the day. :-) http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/index2.html http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/ionis.html Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 7/23/2006 6:11:34 AM
Subject: [Vo]: Re: More On Waterfuel/Joe Cell

This should keep Grimer and Jones out of trouble for the day.   :-)
 
 
 
 
 
Fred
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 23 06:11:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6NDB2Si026022; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 06:11:03 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6NDB12D025988; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 06:11:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 06:11:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=ArJUscqXRPpyF6XqbjM49aps3d6pHgpFlKk6GMPvaRWoa/V72ae8AQySi04JmNA2jCOPZgBXU29qu3xuiFRUMADweZLBgAX5bcoqqtF4swTz5LXlH0rZGhmZPpCZvS1yeYRQ8/uKJ+0hB6yCRcgUwVaJG/5nNDUt5c1sPNI4NBA= Message-ID: Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 09:10:58 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: More On Waterfuel/Joe Cell In-Reply-To: <410-22006702312115344 earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <410-22006702312115344 earthlink.net> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69805 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 7/23/06, Frederick Sparber wrote: > This should keep Grimer and Jones out of trouble for the day. :-) RU kiddin'? http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/strange.html (near bottom) "The square-root(3) term is related to the Vesica Pisces, being the ratio of the long to short diameter of intersecting expanded icosahedral water clusters (the short diameter being the distance between the centres of neighboring dodecaherda and the long diameter associated with a plane of water molecules between the two pentameric boxes (Figure 3h) joining them. I am again grateful to Frank Grimer for showing me this relationship." You gotta get up pretty early in the morning . . . After all, Grimer has a 7 hour head start. :-) Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 23 06:46:33 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6NDkI7a015626; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 06:46:19 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6NDkDGk015576; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 06:46:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 06:46:13 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=QwDWAhKST4ds+EIMjRsxRo2cbTeOSlIz5r9vGor677/nQC5Adq8+3G2BkR2gHXFyw5PgBHfFqg6xZ4QoxBCxDiCQaj4Fp6SsZ/V6S9hV80XA/EwP+yTyTDmp+zP+luwz7R5SN3MamiNB/LLxqlD6PkT8+q2eh98bz1GoD77u8Ng= Message-ID: Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 09:46:02 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69806 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Local Boy Claims Efficient Brown Gas Gen Status: RO X-Status: (I wonder if he built a model?) United States Patent Application 20060144693 Kind Code A1 Villalobos; Victor M. July 6, 2006 Arc-hydrolysis fuel generator with energy recovery Abstract An arc-hydrolysis fuel generator and method of use thereof, the generator comprising a circuit for recovery of electrical energy from an arc. The generator further selectively comprises an electrical potential loop, which recycles electrical energy and a grid placed around an arc-hydrolysis unit, wherein the grid recovers electrostatic energy generated by the electric arc discharge to supplement the energy recoverable from the hydrogen and/or carbon monoxide/dioxide fuel generated from water and/or biomass by the arc-hydrolysis unit. The arc-hydrolysis fuel generator may further comprise a water vapor recovery system, a steam generation system and/or a gas liquefying system, utilizing fuel generated by the arc-hydrolysis fuel generator during use. Inventors: Villalobos; Victor M.; (Marietta, GA) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 23 07:16:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6NEG2CP002900; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 07:16:03 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6NEG1uu002870; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 07:16:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 07:16:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Ti782/hUlPQ40nzRFx6p2QuP03mFS59CaKCBH1KN+Wir3w6iR12GrI14RdMH9jvl; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220067023141547432 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: More On Waterfuel/Joe Cell Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 08:15:47 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940e3ac636b621825f8ba06316e37922d71350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.148 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69807 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Terry Blanton wrote. > > To: > Date: 7/23/2006 7:11:37 AM > Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: More On Waterfuel/Joe Cell > > On 7/23/06, Frederick Sparber wrote: > > http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/strange.html > > > This should keep Grimer and Jones out of trouble for the day. :-) > > RU kiddin'? > > You gotta get up pretty early in the morning . . . > > After all, Grimer has a 7 hour head start. :-) > Yep. I usually start my day at 0700 GMT. (12.01 MST) and I still can't beat him. :-) Fred > > Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 23 10:33:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6NHX5tQ030185; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 10:33:05 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6NHWiiY029943; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 10:32:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 10:32:44 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=VfTvIywkQMRN64uIq6v9IAE5I/zSsF0Dj0AL/eHNNN8C108P78SmG+pA41EhWIxcWzylS78dqypOK2Ee/Ug5fbpxhL1UlwS+RBjQ7P4tjhw93Z0HAiOSjnfeoMHS/86Do8X2yhtoE2YANY7cY7SZiYS3qD+v+H1D5JM9Ylyw4MY= ; Message-ID: <20060723173241.69521.qmail web33301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 10:32:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Arnold Subject: Re: [Vo]: Local Boy Claims Efficient Brown Gas Gen To: vortex-l eskimo.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-655841182-1153675961=:67840" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69808 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --0-655841182-1153675961=:67840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Amazing!! Someone using arc discharges to produce hydrogen from water. I do not know if Victor built a model of his, but I have several models (dating back to 1998) and I even sent a photo of one in action to Steve Krivit. Good luck to Victor, it is clear he knows that Plasma is a far far better thing - than electrolysis. Chris Arnold Terry Blanton wrote: (I wonder if he built a model?) United States Patent Application 20060144693 Kind Code A1 Villalobos; Victor M. July 6, 2006 Arc-hydrolysis fuel generator with energy recovery Abstract An arc-hydrolysis fuel generator and method of use thereof, the generator comprising a circuit for recovery of electrical energy from an arc. The generator further selectively comprises an electrical potential loop, which recycles electrical energy and a grid placed around an arc-hydrolysis unit, wherein the grid recovers electrostatic energy generated by the electric arc discharge to supplement the energy recoverable from the hydrogen and/or carbon monoxide/dioxide fuel generated from water and/or biomass by the arc-hydrolysis unit. The arc-hydrolysis fuel generator may further comprise a water vapor recovery system, a steam generation system and/or a gas liquefying system, utilizing fuel generated by the arc-hydrolysis fuel generator during use. Inventors: Villalobos; Victor M.; (Marietta, GA) --------------------------------- Groups are talking. We´re listening. Check out the handy changes to Yahoo! Groups. --0-655841182-1153675961=:67840 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Amazing!! Someone using arc discharges to produce hydrogen from water. I do not know if Victor built a model of his, but I have several models (dating back to 1998) and I even sent a photo of one in action to Steve Krivit.
 
Good luck to Victor, it is clear he knows that Plasma is a far far better thing - than electrolysis.
 
Chris Arnold

Terry Blanton <hohlraum gmail.com> wrote:
(I wonder if he built a model?)

United States Patent Application 20060144693
Kind Code A1
Villalobos; Victor M. July 6, 2006
Arc-hydrolysis fuel generator with energy recovery

Abstract

An arc-hydrolysis fuel generator and method of use thereof, the
generator comprising a circuit for recovery of electrical energy from
an arc. The generator further selectively comprises an electrical
potential loop, which recycles electrical energy and a grid placed
around an arc-hydrolysis unit, wherein the grid recovers electrostatic
energy generated by the electric arc discharge to supplement the
energy recoverable from the hydrogen and/or carbon monoxide/dioxide
fuel generated from water and/or biomass by the arc-hydrolysis unit.
The arc-hydrolysis fuel generator may further comprise a water vapor
recovery system, a steam generation system and/or a gas liquefying
system, utilizing fuel generated by the arc-hydrolysis fuel generator
during use.

Inventors: Villalobos; Victor M.; (Marietta, GA)


Groups are talking. We´re listening. Check out the handy changes to Yahoo! Groups. --0-655841182-1153675961=:67840-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 23 12:04:55 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6NJ0kee007087; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 12:04:36 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6NIxPB8006167; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 11:59:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 11:59:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=ex8NF0xkmxBT/r7flflMN92UHLCsntAZh9nkob/x/JDbf7ExQbFuHaHFE0sKWnAOCOsRFoWezW7bZxdcuxYraDqB9K7OeoChgUpAGos37Wu5Yr9eGm1KN9OQ+HG3hKtODtiq5s8DmnW71CLANObRKcD3v6Ve79KcMxl4Qf0ca+Q= Message-ID: Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 14:56:47 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69811 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Keith, Your Neighbors are Hot! Status: RO X-Status: In multiple ways: http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/437428p-368557c.html "No ideas, no light & no end in sight! Head of Con Ed says he's sorry, but can't say when service will be restored By JAMES KIRCHICK, CHRISTINA BOYLE and PAUL H.B. SHIN DAILY NEWS WRITERS Red Cross volunteers distribute food and water in Astoria yesterday. Con Ed boss Kevin Burke spoke at press conference on sixth day of Queens blackout. Now he's sorry. Con Ed's top boss apologized yesterday to the 100,000 Queens residents suffering without power for a sixth consecutive frustrating day. But in his first public comments on the blackout, Chief Executive Officer Kevin Burke said he was still in the dark about what caused the outage or when service would be fully restored." They have damaged cables. Some Vorts might remember my recent rant on the cost of copper cables. (Michel was kind enough to enlighten me regarding the effect of inductive loads on cable sizing. Merci, Michel.) One might say, "Replace them all!", instead of trying to find the segments which are actually damaged. Well, as I have learned, the cost of the materials have quadrupled in two years and ConEd simply can't afford complete replacement of these distribution cables. The Iceman Cometh? Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 23 12:06:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6NIpFFT003359; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 11:54:57 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6NIcdRd032493; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 11:38:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 11:38:39 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=aBdpoLYQ39k+gtww0TwWmC/HbfY2K5sJpfN6Y2PPXEc80Ti8EOeJkKv+CJfmNLnVicrkt0FEg6Lmf6UEHZLGd3j0MahQ5Om9Q5Ee7QuA0R3SFQOXuNoS83kqaqiSXdvSVl9OVdjKo4e3LRKvdZ6sJj90N5AjUCuZp7xSUtSR/Uk= Message-ID: Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 14:36:42 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Local Boy Claims Efficient Brown Gas Gen In-Reply-To: <20060723173241.69521.qmail web33301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20060723173241.69521.qmail web33301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69810 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 7/23/06, Christopher Arnold wrote: > > Amazing!! Someone using arc discharges to produce hydrogen from water. I thought it might interest you, Chris. ;-) Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 23 12:16:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6NI57T1017552; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 11:05:07 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6NI4rrm017393; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 11:04:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 11:04:51 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=Sv+U4pk4yyVkfkXv3ErHqxYF6bEWhsAGj6yBSIxnpw+ek8ErTIqtUACKeqwnv5UF; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200670231843425 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 12:04:34 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9409f713a2f4d8fe9b0fe44d2e65369d76c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.165.113 Resent-Message-ID: <81982D.A.TPE.Cp7wEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69809 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Wet Cat Waterfuel Generator Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII According to the Pseudocapacitor-Supercapacitor information gleaned from: http://electrochem.cwru.edu/ed/encycl/art-c03-elchem-cap.htm Drawing the ICE intake air through a standard bead or honeycomb Catalytic Converter wetted by high purity water might form "burnable" Waterfuel Nanoclusters/Droplets. Might require exhaust manifold preheat in the winter though. Otherwise that evaporative "swamp" cooler might work too. :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

According to the Pseudocapacitor-Supercapacitor information
gleaned from:
 
 
Drawing the ICE intake air through a standard bead or honeycomb
Catalytic Converter wetted by high purity water might form
"burnable" Waterfuel  Nanoclusters/Droplets.
 
Might require exhaust manifold preheat in the winter though.
 
Otherwise that evaporative "swamp" cooler might work too.   :-)
 
Fred
 
 
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 23 22:20:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6O5JtgN022796; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 22:19:56 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6O5Jp5p022728; Sun, 23 Jul 2006 22:19:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 22:19:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 00:18:31 -0500 From: Harry Veeder To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69812 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Purdue story from June Status: O X-Status: This story is a month old so it contains nothing new except perhaps the mention of some other officials who wouldn't comment or couldn't be reached. Harry http://www.boilerstation.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060621/NEWS0501/60 6210326/1034/NEWS0501 Purdue puts lid on review of bubble fusion research By Tanya Brown tbrown journalandcourier.com June 21, 2006 Purdue University has finished a review into the methods of a researcher who claimed to have created bubble fusion using a tabletop device. For those hoping to find answers in the strange saga, disappointment may be the only reward at the end of the three-month wait. Purdue launched a review of the work of Rusi Taleyarkhan after an article published in the science journal Nature cast doubt on his ability to produce the complicated reaction under the circumstances he described. Two of Taleyarkhan's colleagues at Purdue -- Lefteri Tsoukalas and Tatjana Jevremovic -- were paraphrased in the Nature article as saying Taleyarkhan refused to back up his claims. Months after the Purdue review officially began in early March, the university has released a statement stating that while the review is complete, no details -- including whether any wrongdoing was actually found -- will be released. "The committee has submitted a report, and I will take appropriate action after studying the recommendations," Charles O. Rutledge, vice president for research, said in a statement released Tuesday by Purdue. "Any further action in this matter will be conducted as an internal matter under appropriate university procedures," said Rutledge, who appointed the committee. When questioned via e-mail, Joe Bennett, vice president of university relations, refused to comment further. Asked whether the release implied Taleyarkhan's guilt, since the university did not issue a statement saying no wrongdoing had been found, Bennett responded: "The release says what it says, no more no less, and we will have no further comment at this time." He also refused to give details about whether Taleyarkhan's privileges at the university would be affected by the outcome. Taleyarkhan, a professor of nuclear engineering at Purdue, claimed to have employed a table-top-sized device to induce bubble fusion when the controversy began. He placed a liquid partially made of heavy hydrogen in it and was able to turn the liquid into bubbles by bombarding the device with ultrasound. The bubbles would almost immediately collapse, generating extreme heat. Taleyarkhan said he found signs that fusion was occurring. The reaction would have been a boon for scientists who have long sought ways to safely create large amounts of energy. Tsoukalas and Jevremovic were paraphrased in Nature as saying that Taleyarkhan opposed publication of their own negative results and had removed equipment on which they were trying to replicate his work. A woman answering Tsoukalas' phone at Purdue said he would be out of the office until Friday. Jeanne Norberg, university spokeswoman, said via e-mail that Tsoukalas would have no comment at this time. Jevremovic did not respond to phone messages or e-mails. Efforts to reach Taleyarkhan were unsuccessful. On the Net You can still read the Nature article "Bubble fusion: Silencing the hype" by visiting www.nature.com, but you must become a member and pay a fee to access the archives. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 24 03:39:04 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6OAcj7D022211; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 03:38:45 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6OAcgus022179; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 03:38:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 03:38:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=ieV+spjmSTfH9Y7/15gNWLK1AA1ZMzuq4RSaZHNeJfo9oAWLUCf2pb6VoigOlPBA; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220067124103825470 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 04:38:25 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940ae0f12e4cc4f47f91fdd92a1bc1e0f81350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.102 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69813 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Colloidal Nickel-Nickel-Iron and Waterfuel/Joe Cell Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII There is an abundance of literature on Magnetic Nickel Ferrite which seems to be a no-no for the Joe Cell. OTOH, there is a paucity of literature on the possibility of a non-magnetic positively charged Nickel-Iron Colloid that should be produced in the "Pre-conditioning" process. With a Nickel or Nickel-Iron Colloid dispersion in the water there should be copious production of Nanoclusters/Nanodroplets of ICE "Burnable" Waterfuel. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

There is an abundance of literature on Magnetic Nickel Ferrite which
seems to be a no-no for the Joe Cell.
OTOH, there is a paucity of literature on the possibility of
a non-magnetic positively charged Nickel-Iron Colloid that should
be produced in the "Pre-conditioning" process.
 
With a Nickel or Nickel-Iron Colloid dispersion in the water
there should be copious production of Nanoclusters/Nanodroplets
of ICE "Burnable" Waterfuel.
 
Fred
 
 
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 24 04:45:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6OBjCp4001092; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 04:45:12 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6OBjAQW001046; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 04:45:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 04:45:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=gK8LsetiUH8d1I11bhC2or2uN6n2TvjpQVDO60FMzu08Cq21UxLQbyknxYsfE/Vx; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220067124114453788 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 05:44:53 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940a1c06e53081057657940e8bf19d0d33e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.66 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69814 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Water in A Catalyst or A Catalyst in Water? Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Draw air through a wetted catalyst, or draw Nanoclusters/droplets from water containing colloidal catalysts with hectares of surface area (the Joe Cell electrodes have about 1/2 square meter surface area) agitated by electrolysis bubbling? http://www.qsinano.com/products/qsi_profile_ni.pdf "NANO NICKEL QSI-Nano™ nickel nanopowder is manufactured by a patent pending vapor condensation process. High purity powder is achieved by use of pure nickel wire and the evaporative nature of the process. The particle size and oxide shell thickness are computer controlled and can be tailored to meet each customer's specific needs. Average particle sizes from 5 to 20 nanometers can be produced with independent control of the nickel oxide coating from 0.5 to 1.5 nanometers in thickness." Best bet? BTW, lots of webspace used promoting Colloidal Silver. :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

Draw air through a wetted catalyst, or draw Nanoclusters/droplets
from water containing colloidal catalysts with hectares of surface area
(the Joe Cell electrodes have about 1/2 square meter surface area)
agitated by electrolysis bubbling?
 
 

"NANO NICKEL

QSI-Nano™ nickel nanopowder is manufactured by a patent

pending vapor condensation process. High purity powder is

achieved by use of pure nickel wire and the evaporative

nature of the process. The particle size and oxide shell

thickness are computer controlled and can be tailored to

meet each customer's specific needs. Average particle sizes

from 5 to 20 nanometers can be produced with independent

control of the nickel oxide coating from 0.5 to 1.5

nanometers in thickness."

 
Best bet?
 
BTW, lots of webspace used promoting Colloidal Silver.   :-)
 
Fred
 
 
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 24 06:34:12 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6ODXrQ8020094; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 06:33:54 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6ODXkLk019976; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 06:33:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 06:33:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-CVTV-Spamfilter: Scanned X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Virus-Scanned: by McAfee Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <000a01c6af25$c168f610$0100007f xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: [VO]:Re: Purdue Story from June Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 08:32:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C6AEFB.C0C99AE0"; type="multipart/alternative" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69815 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C6AEFB.C0C99AE0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0007_01C6AEFB.C0CB2180" ------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C6AEFB.C0CB2180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankHarry reports on Purdue news.. Purdue puts lid on review of bubble fusion research For those hoping to find answers in the strange saga, disappointment may = be the only reward at the end of the three-month wait. Howdy Harry, Lining up ducks can give one pause cuz ducks act like humans when it = serves their purpose. I suppose Seth Putterman at So Cal is back in = command of SL. Anyone ever having first hand experience with centrifugal = pumps can attest that increasing the flow velocity above 6 ft/sec can be = fun with bronze impellers in a split case pump , specially when you add = some fresh chlorine gas upstream for disinfecting the water. Shazzaam ! = the bronze impeller " dissolves" and whats left looks like a sorta = spongee. If you really like to live on the edge, try some JP 4 jetfuel = without adding a static retardant, increase the flow velocity and = discharge the flow into a contained vessel ( not pressured). St.Elmo's = fire?? Or if you're cowboy herding longhorn cattle in dry country in a = thunderstorm you can watch St.Elmo's fire arc between the cattle horns. = Try not to be in the way when the cattle all decide to run plum into the = next county. Why SL should become such great mystery to a science dept of the stature = of Purdue's is the real mystery. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C6AEFB.C0CB2180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Harry reports on Purdue news..
 
Purdue puts lid on review of bubble fusion research
For those = hoping to=20 find answers in the strange saga, disappointment may be
the only = reward at=20 the end of the three-month wait.

Howdy Harry,

Lining up ducks can give one pause cuz ducks act like humans = when it=20 serves their purpose. I suppose Seth Putterman at So Cal is back in = command of=20 SL. Anyone ever having first hand experience with centrifugal pumps can = attest=20 that increasing the flow velocity above 6 ft/sec can be = fun with=20 bronze impellers in a  split case pump , specially when you = add some=20 fresh chlorine gas upstream for disinfecting the water. Shazzaam ! the = bronze=20 impeller " dissolves" and whats left looks like a sorta spongee. If you = really=20 like to live on the edge, try some JP 4 jetfuel without adding a = static=20 retardant, increase the flow velocity and discharge the flow into = a =20 contained vessel ( not pressured). St.Elmo's fire?? Or if you're cowboy = herding=20 longhorn cattle in dry country in a thunderstorm you can watch St.Elmo's = fire=20 arc between the cattle horns. Try not to be in the way when the cattle = all=20 decide to run plum into the next county.

Why SL should become such great mystery to a science dept of the = stature of=20 Purdue's is the real mystery.

Richard

------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C6AEFB.C0CB2180-- ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C6AEFB.C0C99AE0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000501c6af25$a99060a0$0100007f xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C6AEFB.C0C99AE0-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 24 07:22:09 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6OELbMM027884; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 07:21:42 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6OELYrR027836; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 07:21:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 07:21:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00e701c6af1c$0963d340$3800a8c0 zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 14:23:57 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6OELOpH027697 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69816 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Keith, Your Neighbors are Hot! Status: O X-Status: Il n'y a pas de quoi Terry. BTW this makes me think of another controversy we had but weren't able to solve, the Sprain motor, anything new on this front? Michel P.S. To all: I don't systematically monitor all Vo posts currently, so if I don't answer when addressed here please don't assume I am ignoring you, just forward me a copy directly. Terry wrote: ... > Michel was kind enough to enlighten me regarding the effect of inductive > loads on cable sizing. Merci, Michel. ... From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 24 09:40:21 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6OGdqOV007714; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 09:39:52 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6OGdn3X007672; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 09:39:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 09:39:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=prUp8vppRq246/KpdW1hsyJTFOW/N73f+5jN/dfmlhZ3e5v6lXBAjW1WxNcUVMnHUjo8232Qk1UUH0dYM+3c/A0ZycSP0Rn5Ts5QOzTperBaCLF/itZu/OuxFa5VWbtSJBhKm+N4T/o/RXFKHMCA0t2ywLif9vXFsF/Jn2MkwFE= Message-ID: Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 12:39:45 -0400 From: "john herman" To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_124642_24589167.1153759185342" Resent-Message-ID: <0Md2VB.A.u3B.UfPxEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69817 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: WHAT is H-Prize? Please Status: O X-Status: ------=_Part_124642_24589167.1153759185342 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Vo., The Header said 'er. What is the H-Prize? Please JH On 7/22/06, Jones Beene wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Christopher Arnold > > > I have posted many times in the past on how my Plasma device is > > the answer to efficient Hydrogen production .... > > > Then by all means, it would seem prudent that you document your > findings, have them independently verified - and apply for the > prize.... > > ... unless of course, W pulls out his veto pen again. > > ------=_Part_124642_24589167.1153759185342 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
Dear Vo.,
 
 The Header said 'er.   What is the H-Prize?  Please
 
   JH

 
On 7/22/06, Jones Beene <jonesb9@pacbell.net> wrote:

----- Original Message -----
From: Christopher Arnold

> I have posted many times in the past on how my Plasma device is
> the answer to efficient Hydrogen production ....


Then by all means, it would seem prudent that you document your
findings, have them independently verified - and apply for the
prize....

... unless of course, W pulls out his veto pen again.


------=_Part_124642_24589167.1153759185342-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 24 11:21:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6OIKcnq014022; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 11:21:15 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6OI6tpG004525; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 11:06:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 11:06:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=TpB/UPFCBZXHCcPn06VseAHVrff0+2vmd0uO3XLu/kLD892H1wKfeI7zLKq1XSZALp5b8GV5wif5pTuItTOhmGnvrcLfLQwvvwWc7/0+V38oABsN4Zub0bu6LjD11olPv8cM6iuurD96+fKBCMLxO8nhrATn0nnh+qK288GPDB4= ; Message-ID: <080e01c6af4b$ebb2cf10$4b01a8c0 colin5fc9e2583> Reply-To: "Colin Quinney" From: "Colin Quinney" To: Cc: "Frederick Sparber" , "Jones Beene" Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 14:06:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_080B_01C6AF2A.6435C310" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69818 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: X-Suspected-Spam: billb friends5 Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_080B_01C6AF2A.6435C310 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >From the layman's desk... Not Jcell, and not in the preconditioning part that is, but during = onboard electrolysis. . on one of the lists ( perhaps on the forum = OUPower? ), there is a fellow who claims great increase of hydroxy gas = without corresponding increase of current - due to massive increase of = catalytic surface area, utilizing colloids (conc. 20 ppm) in the water. = Can 20 ppm colloids be made with a 9V battery and two nickel electrodes = in distilled water? duration (?). I have heard that Canadian nickels prior to 2001 were made with over 99% = nickel. =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D Where is the most reliable information, a 30% increase in MPG?? Hydro-Boost seems to work best on diesels (and oil furnaces,) but also = works well with gasoline or propane ICE's, and reportedly works most = efficiently if the gas is of the more reactive variety called Rhodes gas = (also called Browns gas,) but for simplicity seems to be called Hydroxy, = (called hydroxy on the forums...) "Hydroxy" is a mixture of: water vapor, atomic hydrogen & molecular = hydrogen, and atomic oxygen & molecular oxygen. >From the reports I have been reading for the past several weeks since = Fred and Jones sparked my interest.. there exists the greatest amount of information that H-boost, ( = HydroBoost) meaning adding hydrogen to the airstream of an Internal = Combustion Engine ( ICE ) increases the MPG and/or the power by up to ~~ = 30% (without changing driving habits), that is, that small amounts of H = and/or H2 is generated on-board and it increases the MPH due to an = almost catalytic type of reaction that it imposes onto the hydrocarbon = fuel combustion process. In other words it is not the BTU value of the = on-board generation of hydroxy gas itself that causes the efficiency to = increase, (That would violate the second law of thermodynamics) It is = the reactive nature added to the combustion that causes combustion = efficiency to increase. Colin ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Frederick Sparber=20 To: vortex-l=20 Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 6:38 AM Subject: [Vo]: Re: Colloidal Nickel-Nickel-Iron and Waterfuel/Joe Cell There is an abundance of literature on Magnetic Nickel Ferrite which=20 seems to be a no-no for the Joe Cell. OTOH, there is a paucity of literature on the possibility of a non-magnetic positively charged Nickel-Iron Colloid that should be produced in the "Pre-conditioning" process. With a Nickel or Nickel-Iron Colloid dispersion in the water there should be copious production of Nanoclusters/Nanodroplets of ICE "Burnable" Waterfuel. Fred ------=_NextPart_000_080B_01C6AF2A.6435C310 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
From the layman's desk...
 
Not Jcell, and not in the=20 preconditioning part that is, but during onboard = electrolysis. .  on one of the lists ( perhaps on the=20 forum OUPower? ),  there is a = fellow who=20 claims great increase of hydroxy gas = without corresponding=20 increase of current -  due to massive increase of catalytic = surface=20 area, utilizing colloids (conc. 20 ppm) in the water.  =
 
Can 20 ppm = colloids be=20 made with a 9V battery and=20 two nickel electrodes in distilled water?   duration = (?).
I have heard that Canadian nickels prior to 2001 = were=20 made with over 99% nickel.
 
 =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D
Where is the most reliable information, a = 30%=20 increase in MPG??
 
Hydro-Boost seems to work best on diesels (and = oil=20 furnaces,) but also works well with gasoline or propane ICE's, and=20 reportedly works most efficiently if the = gas is of=20 the more reactive variety called Rhodes gas (also called Browns gas,)=20 but for simplicity seems to be called Hydroxy, (called hydroxy on the forums...)
"Hydroxy" is = a mixture of:=20 water vapor, atomic hydrogen & molecular hydrogen, and atomic = oxygen=20 & molecular oxygen.
 
From the reports I have been reading for the = past several=20 weeks since Fred and Jones sparked my interest..
 there exists the greatest amount of=20 information that H-boost, ( HydroBoost)=20 meaning adding hydrogen to the airstream of an Internal Combustion = Engine=20 ( ICE ) increases the MPG and/or the power by up to ~~  = 30%=20 (without changing driving habits), that is, that small amounts of H = and/or H2 is=20 generated on-board and it increases the MPH due to an almost = catalytic=20 type of reaction that it imposes onto the = hydrocarbon=20 fuel combustion process. In other words it is = not the=20 BTU value of the on-board generation of hydroxy gas itself that causes the efficiency to increase, (That would violate the second law of thermodynamics) It is = the=20 reactive nature added to the combustion that = causes=20 combustion efficiency to = increase.
 
Colin
 
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Frederick=20 Sparber
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 6:38 AM
Subject: [Vo]: Re: Colloidal Nickel-Nickel-Iron and = Waterfuel/Joe=20 Cell

There is an abundance of literature on Magnetic Nickel Ferrite = which
seems to be a no-no for the Joe Cell.
OTOH, there is a paucity of literature on the possibility of
a non-magnetic positively charged Nickel-Iron Colloid that = should
be produced in the "Pre-conditioning" process.
 
With a Nickel or Nickel-Iron Colloid dispersion in the water
there should be copious production of = Nanoclusters/Nanodroplets
of ICE "Burnable" Waterfuel.
 
Fred
 
 
 
 

------=_NextPart_000_080B_01C6AF2A.6435C310-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 24 13:16:31 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6OKGBo1028176; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 13:16:12 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6OKG8Sr028142; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 13:16:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 13:16:08 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20060724132057.029361a8 mail.newenergytimes.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 13:21:20 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Steven Krivit Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_591678609==.ALT" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69819 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Navy NDIA Conference Annoucement Status: O X-Status: --=====================_591678609==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE JULY 24, 2006 CONTACT: Steven Krivit, New Energy Institute: (310) 721-5919 Low Energy Nuclear Reactions Featured at Navy Science and Technology Conference WASHINGTON, D.C. -- From July 31 to Aug. 3, the National Defense Industrial Association and the Office of Naval Research will co-host the 2006 Naval Science & Technology Partnership Conference at the Marriott Wardman Park Hotel in Washington, D.C. On Aug. 2, the conference will feature a panel of experts discussing "Industry Perspectives on Future Energy Solutions," with representatives from: American Petroleum Institute, U.S. Fuel Cell Council, National Biodiesel Board, Electric Power Research Institute, Coal, Biobased Synthetic Fuel, Solar Electric Power, Fusion, Wind Energy, Low Energy Nuclear Reactions, Ocean Energy, Solar Power Satellites and Nanotechnology. Panel member Dr. Frank Gordon, head of the Navigation and Applied Sciences Department at the Space and Naval Warfare Systems Command center in San Diego, Calif., will discuss the SPAWAR group's developments in low energy nuclear reaction research, historically known as "cold fusion." "Our approach is to understand the nature of the reactions that are occurring to validate that nuclear processes are involved," Gordon said. "We believe the aggregation of our experimental results, up to and including the research we will discuss here, offers compelling evidence that nuclear reactions are occurring." In the afternoon, the SPAWAR group will be hosting two identical one-hour breakout sessions to review and discuss their research progress. The Navy has made special arrangements for the low energy nuclear reactions breakout session so that the public may attend free. Please follow the signs at the Marriott for the "LENR Breakout Session." An exhibit booth will feature a hands-on viewing station displaying samples of the SPAWAR groups' nuclear evidence: CR-39 chips with etchings of charged particle tracks from their electrochemical experiments. New Energy Institute will display highlights from several documentary video recordings of the subject and its history at the exhibit booth. The full agenda for the conference is here. Exhibit hours are listed here. --=====================_591678609==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
JULY 24, 2006
 
CONTACT:
Steven Krivit, New Energy Institute: (310) 721-5919
 
 
Low Energy Nuclear Reactions Featured at Navy Science and Technology Conference

 
WASHINGTON, D.C.  --  From July 31 to Aug. 3, the National Defense Industrial Association and the Office of Naval Research will co-host the 2006 Naval Science & Technology Partnership Conference at the Marriott Wardman Park Hotel in Washington, D.C. 
 
On Aug. 2, the conference will feature a panel of experts discussing "Industry Perspectives on Future Energy Solutions," with representatives from: American Petroleum Institute, U.S. Fuel Cell Council, National Biodiesel Board, Electric Power Research Institute, Coal, Biobased Synthetic Fuel, Solar Electric Power, Fusion, Wind Energy, Low Energy Nuclear Reactions, Ocean Energy, Solar Power Satellites and Nanotechnology.
 
Panel member Dr. Frank Gordon, head of the Navigation and Applied Sciences Department at the Space and Naval Warfare Systems Command center in San Diego, Calif., will discuss the SPAWAR group's developments in low energy nuclear reaction research, historically known as "cold fusion."
 
"Our approach is to understand the nature of the reactions that are occurring to validate that nuclear processes are involved," Gordon said. "We believe the aggregation of our experimental results, up to and including the research we will discuss here, offers compelling evidence that nuclear reactions are occurring." 
 
In the afternoon, the SPAWAR group will be hosting two identical one-hour breakout sessions to review and discuss their research progress. The Navy has made special arrangements for the low energy nuclear reactions breakout session so that the public may attend free. Please follow the signs at the Marriott for the "LENR Breakout Session."
 
An exhibit booth will feature a hands-on viewing station displaying samples of the SPAWAR groups' nuclear evidence: CR-39 chips with etchings of charged particle tracks from their electrochemical experiments.
 
New Energy Institute will display highlights from several documentary video recordings of the subject and its history at the exhibit booth.
 
 
The full agenda for the conference is here. Exhibit hours are listed here.
 
 
--=====================_591678609==.ALT-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 24 13:41:34 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6OKeGre012059; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 13:41:13 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6OKZhfF008647; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 13:35:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 13:35:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=XVao7cUTybrRQakGixScVNtWX2M5FdX6DHfQPAoztN2X/K6PSuxm8eeoOUoFbuou; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220067124203515166 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 14:35:15 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94025a5f8582e275cce204a4193e76af280350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.159.134 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69820 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII What goes around comes around? http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.htm US Patent 5,607,563 "An electrolytic cell and system for electrolysizing and/or heating a liquid electrolyte containing water having a conductive salt in solution flowing through the cell. The electrolytic cell includes a non-conductive housing having an inlet and an outlet and spaced apart first and second conductive foraminous grids connected within the housing. A plurality of spaced beds of closely packed conductive microspheres are positioned end to end within the housing in electrical contact with the first grid adjacent the inlet. The individual microsphere beds are electrically isolated from one another in the absence of the liquid electrolyte. The microspheres are generally uniform in size and density and include a plated layer formed of metallic hydride which is readily combineable with hydrogen or an isotope of hydrogen with hydrazine to form a conductive, preferably flash coated metal layer. An electric power source in the system is operably connected across the first and second grids whereby electrical current flows between the grids within the liquid electrolyte. " ................................................................................................................................................................ 1997 Article: The Patterson Beads........Key to a revolutionary new Energy Source The story on this potential new energy source was aired nearly a year ago on GMA. It's promise to revolutionize our way of life however, was tempered though in that it's methodology seemed to defy the current laws of physics. Dr. James Patterson, 75 years old, and holder of more than 150 patents including one for a device called the Patterson Power Cell. Simple in design......it has two electrodes that you attach to an electrical current, while at the same time the inner portion of the cell is being flushed with salt water. Inside the cell at thousands of tiny beads, made from plastic and coated with layers of different kinds of metal. Inside what used to be his private garage, is now a full fledged modern laboratory where work continues on this latest of his inventions. The Patterson Cell, he believes, will one day soon make the use of fossil fuels obsolete. According to Mr. Patterson, "We are getting nuclear energy output, without any radioactive byproducts from the use of this cell." The device (as a hot water heater) is currently producing much more energy than it is consuming....in fact it is 50 percent more efficient than what consumers have in their homes today. It is currently planned for initial marketing in the next two to four years. The biggest surprise though is, not only do the beads produce energy more efficiently than fossil fuels, but they actually neutralize radioactivity. This news has attracted big name scientists like Norm Olsen (Metallurgist) who works in Hanford, Oregon where the Government stores high level radioactive wastes. Olsen believes that if after further testing under more controlled circumstances, the facts are born out with the Patterson beads, that we will be well on the way to solving the nuclear waste storage problem in the world. In a test run for the ABC report, using time lapse taping in a two hour period, a solution of uranium radioactive byproducts had it's halflife reduced by more than half during that short period. Mr. Patterson's company has teamed up with the world's largest hot water heater manufacturer to market this new technology. It has the potential for being 1,000 times more efficient than present day heating products, but expect to have the commercial product producing at 120 times the efficiency in order to provide a very long life span per unit. Last week, Patterson demonstrated the American Nuclear Society's annual conference where it was very well received. Companies like Motorola, Westinghouse, The Dept. Of Energy are all showing big time interest. End of Synopsis. ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 7/24/2006 5:45:47 AM Subject: [Vo]: Re: Water in A Catalyst or A Catalyst in Water? Draw air through a wetted catalyst, or draw Nanoclusters/droplets from water containing colloidal catalysts with hectares of surface area (the Joe Cell electrodes have about 1/2 square meter surface area) agitated by electrolysis bubbling? http://www.qsinano.com/products/qsi_profile_ni.pdf "NANO NICKEL QSI-Nano™ nickel nanopowder is manufactured by a patent pending vapor condensation process. High purity powder is achieved by use of pure nickel wire and the evaporative nature of the process. The particle size and oxide shell thickness are computer controlled and can be tailored to meet each customer's specific needs. Average particle sizes from 5 to 20 nanometers can be produced with independent control of the nickel oxide coating from 0.5 to 1.5 nanometers in thickness." Best bet? BTW, lots of webspace used promoting Colloidal Silver. :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

What goes around comes around?

http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.htm

US Patent 5,607,563

"An electrolytic cell and system for electrolysizing and/or heating a liquid electrolyte containing water having a conductive salt in solution flowing through the cell. The electrolytic cell includes a non-conductive housing having an inlet and an outlet and spaced apart first and second conductive foraminous grids connected within the housing. A plurality of spaced beds of closely packed conductive microspheres are positioned end to end within the housing in electrical contact with the first grid adjacent the inlet. The individual microsphere beds are electrically isolated from one another in the absence of the liquid electrolyte. The microspheres are generally uniform in size and density and include a plated layer formed of metallic hydride which is readily combineable with hydrogen or an isotope of hydrogen with hydrazine to form a conductive, preferably flash coated metal layer. An electric power source in the system is operably connected across the first and second grids whereby electrical current flows between the grids within the liquid electrolyte. "

................................................................................................................................................................

1997 Article:

The Patterson Beads........Key to a revolutionary new Energy Source

The story on this potential new energy source was aired nearly a year ago on GMA. It's promise to revolutionize our way of life however, was tempered though in that it's methodology seemed to defy the current laws of physics.

Dr. James Patterson, 75 years old, and holder of more than 150 patents including one for a device called the Patterson Power Cell. Simple in design......it has two electrodes that you attach to an electrical current, while at the same time the inner portion of the cell is being flushed with salt water. Inside the cell at thousands of tiny beads, made from plastic and coated with layers of different kinds of metal.

Inside what used to be his private garage, is now a full fledged modern laboratory where work continues on this latest of his inventions. The Patterson Cell, he believes, will one day soon make the use of fossil fuels obsolete. According to Mr. Patterson, "We are getting nuclear energy output, without any radioactive byproducts from the use of this cell."

The device (as a hot water heater) is currently producing much more energy than it is consuming....in fact it is 50 percent more efficient than what consumers have in their homes today. It is currently planned for initial marketing in the next two to four years.

The biggest surprise though is, not only do the beads produce energy more efficiently than fossil fuels, but they actually neutralize radioactivity. This news has attracted big name scientists like Norm Olsen (Metallurgist) who works in Hanford, Oregon where the Government stores high level radioactive wastes.

Olsen believes that if after further testing under more controlled circumstances, the facts are born out with the Patterson beads, that we will be well on the way to solving the nuclear waste storage problem in the world. In a test run for the ABC report, using time lapse taping in a two hour period, a solution of uranium radioactive byproducts had it's halflife reduced by more than half during that short period.

Mr. Patterson's company has teamed up with the world's largest hot water heater manufacturer to market this new technology. It has the potential for being 1,000 times more efficient than present day heating products, but expect to have the commercial product producing at 120 times the efficiency in order to provide a very long life span per unit.

Last week, Patterson demonstrated the American Nuclear Society's annual conference where it was very well received. Companies like Motorola, Westinghouse, The Dept. Of Energy are all showing big time interest.

End of Synopsis.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: 7/24/2006 5:45:47 AM
Subject: [Vo]: Re: Water in A Catalyst or A Catalyst in Water?

Draw air through a wetted catalyst, or draw Nanoclusters/droplets
from water containing colloidal catalysts with hectares of surface area
(the Joe Cell electrodes have about 1/2 square meter surface area)
agitated by electrolysis bubbling?
 
 

"NANO NICKEL

QSI-Nano™ nickel nanopowder is manufactured by a patent

pending vapor condensation process. High purity powder is

achieved by use of pure nickel wire and the evaporative

nature of the process. The particle size and oxide shell

thickness are computer controlled and can be tailored to

meet each customer's specific needs. Average particle sizes

from 5 to 20 nanometers can be produced with independent

control of the nickel oxide coating from 0.5 to 1.5

nanometers in thickness."

 
Best bet?
 
BTW, lots of webspace used promoting Colloidal Silver.   :-)
 
Fred
 
 
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 24 15:22:09 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6OMLqFk019170; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 15:21:53 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6OMLjDo019097; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 15:21:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 15:21:44 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-IronPort-AV: i="4.07,176,1151899200"; d="scan'208"; a="296999411:sNHT49711840" Message-ID: <2079213568.1153775126165.JavaMail.root fepweb03> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 14:05:26 -0700 From: OrionWorks To: vortex-l MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Sensitivity: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <5NpzqD.A.KqE.4fUxEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69821 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: OT: Buzz Aldrin comes clean Status: O X-Status: For the Vort historian out there you may recall that Man landed on the moon 38 years ago, on July 21, 1969. An associate of mine was kind enough to point me to a historical article commemorating the event: http://members.shaw.ca/rlongpre01/moon.html But wait! Apparently Buzz Aldrin now has a confession to make! See: http://www.gameshout.com/news/apollo_11_astronauts_witnessed_ufo_enco unter/article7632.htm http://tinyurl.com/m7np8 I've heard rumors about this particular incident for decades. It will be interesting to see if Buzz actually says this, for the record, and that his comments were not taken out of context. What a hoot! Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.Zazzle.com/orionworks From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 24 17:06:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6P064uK022117; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 17:06:04 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6P05wVd022052; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 17:05:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 17:05:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=KAxeIaqq9HIlSLqGVJ730K5GWZCPwZ/O42Pwc6QUkWZu/I1uc17Jxvy1E/zu+NUgGQW9q03k2u6DSoo9aTRRX9iSVReOL4oQSK7cUaGVkKpfJDNOH90e1B7alKCPRAXZv3ZI4PNOEN92ySwBfWh7qhMtYgyEvBxav3TG/1HgSM8= Message-ID: Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 20:05:53 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: OT: Buzz Aldrin comes clean In-Reply-To: <2079213568.1153775126165.JavaMail.root fepweb03> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline References: <2079213568.1153775126165.JavaMail.root fepweb03> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6P05s3D021985 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69822 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 7/24/06, OrionWorks > Apparently Buzz Aldrin now has a confession to make! If you're interested in such things, you might enjoy these clips from José: http://www.theufomovie.com/clips.html The movie will be coming out soon. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 24 18:18:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6P1HkDs003958; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 18:17:46 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6P1Hgnw003918; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 18:17:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 18:17:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=JHIe+lbDIVEA5Lp1bZxnuVIZhhrPSKby4Jbpp6um9wZfQb3O1eVGwuz6ApCMHiboYSZb2W9lVQ+/SAu1jhnA7Dsu8dtvnAHMbkq15Dm3e7HqzSliyrbJD9gPW5XngCAH3MWNyOpQuoN9CZMuaDucAzyTgORbZOF6ilIMyljIadY= Message-ID: Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 21:17:41 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <4NPsUB.A.F9.1EXxEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69823 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: China's Fusion Reactor Status: O X-Status: http://upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060724-065917-5783r China to test its 'artificial sun' BEIJING, July 24 (UPI) -- The first plasma discharge from China's experimental advanced superconducting research center -- the so-called "artificial sun" -- is set to occur next month. The discharge, expected about Aug. 15, will be conducted at Science Island in Hefei, in east China's Anhui Province, the Peoples Daily reported Monday. Scientists told the newspaper a successful test will mean the world's first nuclear fusion device of its kind will be ready to go into actual operation, the newspaper said. The plasma discharge will draw international attention since some scientists are concerned with risks involved in such a process. But Chinese researchers involved in the project say any radiation will cease once the test is completed. The experiment will take place in a structure made of reinforced concrete, with five-foot-thick walls and a three-foot-thick roof. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 24 21:11:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6P4AAKQ004090; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 21:11:09 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6P3d7Ud017318; Mon, 24 Jul 2006 20:39:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 20:39:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-IronPort-AV: i="4.07,177,1151899200"; d="scan'208"; a="636317202:sNHT22561608" Message-ID: <97816797.1153798735049.JavaMail.root fepweb09> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 20:38:55 -0700 From: OrionWorks To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: OT: Buzz Aldrin comes clean MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Sensitivity: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6P3cw4J017215 Resent-Message-ID: <77SW8D.A.SOE.ZJZxEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69824 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---- Terry Blanton wrote: > On 7/24/06, OrionWorks > > > Apparently Buzz Aldrin now has a confession to make! > > If you're interested in such things, you might enjoy these clips from José: > > http://www.theufomovie.com/clips.html > > The movie will be coming out soon. > > Terry Thanks, Terry, Enjoyed viewing the clips. Looks like a reasonably slick production. A sign of the hi-tech times – premiering on-line on the Borderland Network for downloads as well. The airbrushing story was fun to watch. I've heard rumors about those incidents for quite some time. It was nice to see actual footage from the individuals who had been making these claims. As convincing as the trailer and footage appears to be I suspect nothing of any great significance will come of it. I've come to the conclusion that too many of our planet's population simply aren't ready to face the implications. The testimony and accumulated "evidence" will continue to be meticulously ignored. Life is complicated enough these day as we go about the grisly business of killing each other off. For now, it would be considered a rude gesture to intrude into the little scripts that we've written for each other to play out. Maybe during intermission, if we can ever figure out a time to have one. Certain conversations I've had with individuals who post in this group have only reinforced my suspicions on that matter. I would love to be proven wrong on this. Really. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/OrionWorks From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 25 05:14:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6PCDh4w012718; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 05:13:43 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6PCDZZX012600; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 05:13:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 05:13:35 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=J5Z8Y9tr7B0/1CA9cimMpIVn+jZdn7wl3GnEGC3gFn8ighURYncyt4Vv4K3gkznks1gIWQ22fiWD66SopU6KOaiijwMKjhVjKQGnnl2+v/4DUcQiK6HL+RBh2M6V+y81m93Vig6q8NhR1sQaROY9Ckd8xN/nPKVNOElumFuiMOU= Message-ID: Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 08:12:02 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: OT: Buzz Aldrin comes clean In-Reply-To: <97816797.1153798735049.JavaMail.root fepweb09> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <97816797.1153798735049.JavaMail.root fepweb09> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69825 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 7/24/06, Steven wrote: > As convincing as the trailer and footage appears to be I suspect nothing of any great significance will come of it. I've come to the conclusion that too many of our planet's population simply aren't ready to face the implications. The testimony and accumulated "evidence" will continue to be meticulously ignored. Yes, but we are approaching a cusp. If the Chinese aren't a part of the cosmo club and those stories of airbrushing are true; then, they are soon to let the cat out of the bag (unless it's dinner) when they visit the moon. Disclosure is inevitable. The question is when. I have been a true believer for 4 decades and used to be sure it would happen in my lifetime. Now I'm not so sure. One story is that "they" have told the governments they have a timetable for disclosure or "they" will do the proverbial landing on the White House lawn. Wouldn't you love to see THAT on CNN! :-) Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 25 06:12:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6PDCGVa021814; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 06:12:16 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6PDCD16021775; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 06:12:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 06:12:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=r4CqNMTVQAma/GiM23VaKz2x/JqtqyhPr9SHK7Mz+onmRPPJ6gim8hKJiIWySa0cCua99oi1jPZbRutPoKFooH+vQZ+a3e+6ouRhq+g9PkngmboKPoGjc0xeCRSoMh8MHOhREs8Gl3Q0w8zwkOUKJZTSt6LSvV7wrmsaB7zw9rM= Message-ID: Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 09:12:08 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69826 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Free Energy Sources Status: O X-Status: http://ou.jayel.net/mine.html#water I particularly like the evaporative cooling stirling engine where 16 gallons of water are equivalent to 1 gallon of petrol. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 25 07:41:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6PEfGjG022765; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 07:41:16 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6PEfDx5022731; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 07:41:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 07:41:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <44C62D08.8000504 ihug.co.nz> Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 02:39:04 +1200 From: John Berry User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69827 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Bifilar coil attracting a charge and Faraday motor no lenz Status: O X-Status: I had some further ideas as writing this, the best stuff is found after: ***Faraday!!*** Due to the 'motional e-field' or pancaking of the electric field of the electron drift in a wire a positive charge or charged object should be attracted and a negatively charged one repelled, the moving electrons also should see the stationary charges as moving for them their reference frame <==> coil <==> charged disk This would work even if the coil is canceling bifilar. But the magnitude of attraction would be rather small of course as it is the worst of both worlds as the number of unbalanced charges on the disk are far fewer than the number of conducting electrons in a wire and the drift velocity is very slow, so it would be of the same strength as if the disk was rotated at electron drift velocity which would be a very sad B field. But one question that comes to mind, would a charged disk feel a self inductance resistance to and acceleration or deceleration as a coil producing a similar field would find? If the answer is yes and assuming the answer would be yes for any charged object accelerating (could this be how Woodward works? could it be that the magnetic field from a charged cap accelerating creates self inductance? It would act as it it has gained inertial mass when charged) then why wouldn't all matter feel this self induced resistance to acceleration/deceleration (sure from a distance charge balanced matter is neutral but on a microscopic atomic scale the moving charges would create an abundance of tiny magnetic fields), besides inertia (it would be cool if this was the cause of inertial mass of course but that would give electrons and protons the same inertial mass and neutrons would have none) no such force is measured so does this mean that self inductance doesn't occur in these situations? Does an electron accelerated in a particle accelerator feel any self inductance or normal inertia only? If it is possible to establish a magnetic field without penalty however then it is possible to spin up a charged disk and because there was no energy invested in producing the magnetic field any energy tapped by say a coil (said coil being open circuit as it was spun up) as the disk is stopped would seemingly be free?????? I don't even want to get into the pinch effect. ***Faraday!!*** As for the Faraday motor, consider what would happen if you started running along a long wire against the electron drift, if you weren't moving, the moving electrons would be passing you at 1 m/s (I just searched and found Beaty arguing that indeed the speed is something around that fast) and the protons would of course be stationary, so if you start to run against the drift at say 1m/s then the electrons composing the current are now passing you at 2 m/s and the protons at 1 m/s, still a difference of 1 m/s and no matter how fast you move that's all it will be, just as much as if you weren't moving at all. So at this point you can look at it as flux cutting, in which case moving against the drift faster and faster doesn't produce a higher EMF because you are also cutting the flux produced by the protons as well, or you can look at it as pancaking fields of electrons and protons but either way you aren't going to get a higher voltage by speeding up. So what if we now built a Faraday motor out of copper only, no iron or permanent magnets. So take an electromagnet (big loop DC, copper only), it will be stationary, imagine your looking at it's N pole now with electron drift in a cw direction, take a copper disk on an axle (or pool of mercury) place it inside the hoop coil and apply a negative DC source to the center taking the current off at the edges with brushes, the disk will rotate in a ccw direction but there will be no back EMF, if you instead tried to use it in generator mode it simply would not work rotated in a ccw direction no voltage would be generated because the voltage induced in the disk would be equal and opposite to the voltage induced in the brushes and external circuit because the rotation has made no change! Here is another thought, if moving faster doesn't increase the force what if we put a very high resistance thin wire and a big fat wire (or a multicore) of equal lengths, wound them together connecting them in series so that when a current is passed through they cancel creating no detectable B field. However while the same number of charges will be passing through any point of this strange coil the electron drift in one should be much faster but there should be fewer moving charges, they should see the magnetic field produced by the electromagnet in that Faraday motor differently! (lets say the fat part has 10,000 electrons moving at 1 m/s per mm of wire, the thin part having 1,000 electrons moving at 10,000 m/s per mm of wire, as the higher speed doesn't lead to increased EMF from cutting of the lines all that really matters is that there are 10 times more electron moving in the fat part creating x10 stronger force. (assuming that the coil (in this case the one we used for the Faraday motor) has the same electron drift speed as the fat part) So while this coil wouldn't create a magnetic field it would react to one, though at this moment I'm not sure the other coil would be effected!!!!! (unidirectional motion????????) Could it be that iron and permanent magnets have been screwing up up all this time? I'd love replies to this but please I haven't used any equations and would generally rather not get a reply in equation form or at least not the bulk of it. (unless it is well explained) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 25 08:30:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6PFU2Sw029446; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 08:30:13 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6PFOAjZ024902; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 08:24:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 08:24:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-IronPort-AV: i="4.07,180,1151899200"; d="scan'208"; a="1415778479:sNHT942074796" Message-ID: <683156120.1153841043817.JavaMail.root fepweb02> Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 8:24:03 -0700 From: OrionWorks To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: OT: Buzz Aldrin comes clean MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Sensitivity: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6PFO6cB024805 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69828 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---- Terry Blanton wrote: > On 7/24/06, Steven wrote: > > > As convincing as the trailer and footage appears to be I suspect nothing of any great significance will come of it. I've come to the conclusion that too many of our planet's population simply aren't ready to face the implications. The testimony and accumulated "evidence" will continue to be meticulously ignored. > > Yes, but we are approaching a cusp. If the Chinese aren't a part of > the cosmo club and those stories of airbrushing are true; then, they > are soon to let the cat out of the bag (unless it's dinner) when they > visit the moon. > > Disclosure is inevitable. The question is when. I have been a true > believer for 4 decades and used to be sure it would happen in my > lifetime. Now I'm not so sure. One story is that "they" have told > the governments they have a timetable for disclosure or "they" will do > the proverbial landing on the White House lawn. > > Wouldn't you love to see THAT on CNN! :-) > > Terry I have to admit that I belong pretty much in the same camp. In my youth I was much more impatient and radical in my desire to see some form of a public disclosure unfold, as if I feared the event would finally happen after I died and I would miss out on all the fun. I'm now 53 years old, going on 54 next month. I realize my age still makes me a young pup by the standards of others who post in this group. There are others older and far wiser than I. The question I keep asking myself is will a "disclosure" happen overnight or will the process actually turn out to be a gradual transformation, one that when the historians look back took decades to slowly manifest through the collective minds of the planetary population. The proverbial "landing on the White House" is, IMHO, an extremely unlikely scenario. Least of all, it would snub all the other governmental institutions - WHY didn't THEY land on OUR front lawn! The NERVE of them! Harrumph! Ok, then, so why don’t "they" land on every government front lawn simultaneously so as not to snub the rest of the government institutions. But then you have to deal with the appearance of what would look to many like a planned invasion. Ok, then, snub all the governments and why not land in some remote region like the upper plateaus in Tibet. But such an action would look to some like "they" are behaving in sneaky remote ways. Some would complain: Why are they being so secretive!!!! There just ain't no easy to way to introduce yourselves! ;-) IMHO, under the circumstances the only scenario I've been able to come up with that seems the safest avenue to follow is to just flit about at safe and hopefully non-threatening distances and occasionally wave through the portholes - and hope enough of us will look up long enough from the occasionally grisly scripts we have been playing out amongst ourselves - just long enough to notice. It sounds like Buzz and Neil did just that on their way to the moon. That took courage. Good for them! Some in this group will misconstrue my above mentioned scenario as assuming I believe that, collectively speaking, they must all be friendly, that they are here to serve and/or save us, when it seems so obvious to them that "their" real "intentions" are to serve us up on a dinner platter. IMHO, we really don't know what their "intentions" are. Maybe there isn't just one "intention". Perhaps there are as many "intentions" as there are stars shining in the universe. But we will never know, not until we can open up a public dialog with "them." PS: I loved that post-humus photo of Klass you shared with us of him smooching a rubber alien! I bet Klass is getting a good laugh from it as well. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 25 08:48:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6PFmIZC012385; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 08:48:19 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6PFmFev012359; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 08:48:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 08:48:15 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=MVgbiQS7BKMVgCwaVfDiA8kvEnz+u5eI92ojr8FGk6UeN+2kKxubn0k7HpaGtRp3Ysxe/7wTE+X72ffYlpfWyjTNg3RAts4JT4SorFTNTWKvUUNJOwiuEvN6I0WrZKCzk36zh/ZbQkvBnZ0NnR/9HRjZXj2+Q2NAp33kQE7k7e4= Message-ID: Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 08:48:10 -0700 From: "leaking pen" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: OT: Buzz Aldrin comes clean In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_89830_6594172.1153842490509" References: <97816797.1153798735049.JavaMail.root fepweb09> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69830 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_Part_89830_6594172.1153842490509 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline they are soon to let the cat out of the bag (unless it's dinner) when they visit the moon. im not sure whats worse. that you said it, or i snickered. but seriously, what would it avail them? what would be the benefit to admiting it publicly for them? On 7/25/06, Terry Blanton wrote: > > On 7/24/06, Steven wrote: > > > As convincing as the trailer and footage appears to be I suspect nothing > of any great significance will come of it. I've come to the conclusion that > too many of our planet's population simply aren't ready to face the > implications. The testimony and accumulated "evidence" will continue to be > meticulously ignored. > > Yes, but we are approaching a cusp. If the Chinese aren't a part of > the cosmo club and those stories of airbrushing are true; then, they > are soon to let the cat out of the bag (unless it's dinner) when they > visit the moon. > > Disclosure is inevitable. The question is when. I have been a true > believer for 4 decades and used to be sure it would happen in my > lifetime. Now I'm not so sure. One story is that "they" have told > the governments they have a timetable for disclosure or "they" will do > the proverbial landing on the White House lawn. > > Wouldn't you love to see THAT on CNN! :-) > > Terry > > -- That which yields isn't always weak. ------=_Part_89830_6594172.1153842490509 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
they
are soon to let the cat out of the bag (unless it's dinner) when they
visit the moon.
 
 
im not sure whats worse. that you said it, or i snickered.
 
but seriously, what would it avail them?  what would be the benefit to admiting it publicly for them?

 
On 7/25/06, Terry Blanton <hohlraum@gmail.com> wrote:
On 7/24/06, Steven wrote:

> As convincing as the trailer and footage appears to be I suspect nothing of any great significance will come of it. I've come to the conclusion that too many of our planet's population simply aren't ready to face the implications. The testimony and accumulated "evidence" will continue to be meticulously ignored.

Yes, but we are approaching a cusp.  If the Chinese aren't a part of
the cosmo club and those stories of airbrushing are true; then, they
are soon to let the cat out of the bag (unless it's dinner) when they
visit the moon.

Disclosure is inevitable.  The question is when.  I have been a true
believer for 4 decades and used to be sure it would happen in my
lifetime.  Now I'm not so sure.  One story is that "they" have told
the governments they have a timetable for disclosure or "they" will do
the proverbial landing on the White House lawn.

Wouldn't you love to see THAT on CNN!  :-)

Terry




--
That which yields isn't always weak. ------=_Part_89830_6594172.1153842490509-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 25 08:55:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6PFRiHQ027163; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 08:27:45 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6PFRfZV027101; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 08:27:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 08:27:40 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <004801c6affe$dbb90e90$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 08:27:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69829 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Anions Anonymous Status: O X-Status: Seven years ago, Japanese researcher T. Ikeshoji reported on a "Path-Integral Molecular Dynamics Simulation for Water Anion Clusters of Various Sizes" http://ptp.ipap.jp/link?PTPS/138/161/ In which molecular clusters of water - to which an electron is attached - were investigated by path-integral molecular dynamics for the electron. Sorry, the pdf is not available online without an account, but the paper version can be found in a good engineering library. A solvated electron (interior state) and a dipole captured one (surface state) were obtained for large and small clusters, respectively, after producing several hundred clusters in various structures and sizes. Conclusion: this was a step in the right direction, but it is too bad that this dynamic modeling was not taken further to the next step - into applied engineering - as it might answer a most important question. The "answer" (or one answer of many) as to: how to solve the energy crisis in an ecologically sound way - may lie in the ability to add solvated electrons to water efficiently. We know that the H-O-H molecule is "Y-shaped" with the two hydrogens branching off at about 105 degrees of one end into the so-called "Mickey-mouse" ears. We know that this "end" of the water polar-molecule (with the two protons) has a net positive near-field. We strongly suspect (from models such as the above) that an electron which is "caught" between two of these water molecules such that it "nests" between the four available protons of the two aligned water molecules will have "exceptional" stability. This would look like something like : --< (e-) >-- where one of the water molecules (--<) is given a 90 degree turn about the long axis, wrt to the other. This cannot be easily drawn using fonts. However, the arrangement should be very logical to anyone who thinks about it for a moment. By analogy, it resembles the automotive part known as a "universal joint" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_joint Next step consider this species: let's call it the 2(H2O) solvated anion ...or for short: TWA (two water anion) and imagine that it can become one of the "active" modalities for so-called water-fuel. How? It becomes a "nucleating agent" for a larger cluster and in-effect "neutralizes" the charge. This structure can be a clathrate or otherwise. Pay particular attention to the fourth image on this page: http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/php-cgiwrap/water/pfp.php3?page=http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/clathrate.html that would be the image labeled 5(^12)6(^4) How much energy would such a structure have if it enclose one TWA? This is an intriguing question, and there are some "interpretations" of published estimates - going up to over 10 eV. That would be in addition to any hydronium and hydroxyl hydrate which is being formed and retained at the same time. Fred probably has an opinion of what the total energy could be... and that is quite surprising, considering that is it is still basically "just" water. Jones Now going from the sublime (flash of insight) to the ridiculous (obligatory pun): Can the entire world get high on a universal joint? From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 25 09:04:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6PG4Ukq025050; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 09:04:30 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6PG4RlA025021; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 09:04:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 09:04:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=TUOJ4SFiphn6msQhs0X4qejjvbedTXh3t0pllVv41NZlc390OII9j/kcKB9JA5Y8Gu7KKiaRwPT1o9+m65Z9rp19l0Ut1QNAY87UAuA4FiFRvQUrrnJjWTeS3IfDKNDPrLDhs2vQJEBVjqf7AVksnKq0T33RNeOkc7tRIQyjMAc= Message-ID: Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:04:24 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: OT: Buzz Aldrin comes clean In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <97816797.1153798735049.JavaMail.root fepweb09> Resent-Message-ID: <4P3og.A.5GG.LEkxEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69831 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 7/25/06, leaking pen wrote: > but seriously, what would it avail them? what would be the benefit to > admiting it publicly for them? You don't think they would get considerable political hay from revealing that which our government (and others) has been hiding? Terry PS Your name reminds of one company's web site, Pen Island (yep, try it ;-) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 25 09:06:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6PG6Mow026731; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 09:06:23 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6PG6I45026659; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 09:06:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 09:06:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=Hw5jWRF7rdRjTwTyu6Fa1o9NTMfw0F3WnEIfG0SWrmvwNIF8FNcG/qcbovQDI3ockJoGwLaDR89eQuZ6+DfGo4CyAtL1e4vA1ABgKHiTn1Pgk02oEPyby++uL339cLrY4onHnW2S6jgpI5Aap5C/NgRrEyh7Es9rg3V8ltnhZSU= Message-ID: Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:06:16 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69832 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Space Research Status: O X-Status: Bigelow's space hotel plans has prompted the need for a great deal of new research: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14002908/ I had no idea how important hook and eye fasteners could be! Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 25 09:17:03 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6PGGgkl002349; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 09:16:42 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6PGGf2f002335; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 09:16:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 09:16:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=OI9WF7G9V/WLUl3ix4Z18XrTr7CJwhX8MwU4CZJ5fDxMqV/vAXJw6KpbxTrggdcgNurHGprlldOMWtV2HRl3JNuKIBejGVdkqa5yg0njHs/yeT1FFPGtJHitb4va9kUfs0R5azkND1E60J735a09qzkd9r/zMINihwecpNeLyBI= Message-ID: Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:16:41 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Anions Anonymous In-Reply-To: <004801c6affe$dbb90e90$6401a8c0 NuDell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <004801c6affe$dbb90e90$6401a8c0 NuDell> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69833 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 7/25/06, Jones Beene > Can the entire world get high on a universal joint? They did recently. It was called the World Cup. It wasn't water-filled but your 5^12 6^4 model looks strangely familiar. ;-) Paul Stevens found another use for this geometry in his science project: http://imdb.com/title/tt0091472/ Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 25 10:09:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6PH9bSL009957; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 10:09:37 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6PH9YeM009930; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 10:09:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 10:09:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 13:08:24 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: [Vo]: OT: Buzz Aldrin comes clean In-reply-to: To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69834 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is part of a dis-information campaign to hide the REAL truth... the moon landing was a hoax!! Harry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 25 11:39:25 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6PId2FP011394; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 11:39:03 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6PIcxlX011344; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 11:38:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 11:38:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-ClientAddr: 69.29.143.122 From: "Anthony" To: Subject: RE: [Vo]: OT: Buzz Aldrin comes clean Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 13:04:58 -0500 Message-ID: <001201c6b014$dc850f20$0601a8c0 STUFFMARTUSA2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-yoursite-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-yoursite-MailScanner: Not scanned: please contact your Internet E-Mail Service Provider for details X-MailScanner-From: personal stuffmartusa.com Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69836 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Amen brother.. :) -----Original Message----- From: Harry Veeder [mailto:eo200 freenet.carleton.ca] Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 1:08 PM To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: OT: Buzz Aldrin comes clean This is part of a dis-information campaign to hide the REAL truth... the moon landing was a hoax!! Harry -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/361 - Release Date: 6/11/2006 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 25 12:42:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6PJe9Hs025394; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:42:53 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6PI0Ov7015565; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 11:00:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 11:00:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=mYp8eMdaYGDK321IBK8jzwtGh4HywPlKJNPwMCScr8sAbsxQAllLGJeOmxG5gPPdTGYBATV9SLeUcEshBC5+Azj1sZeajGTviydLKHvOfccQsdEYtems6HxDLo2UA5Iao4BPdFwrz4WwoRQRIcRtrqzmE2bjaruahABeGspd/TE= Message-ID: Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 14:00:18 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69835 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: [Humor] UR(L) Kiddin'! Status: O X-Status: Yep, they're all fer real: 1. A site called 'Who Represents' where you can find the name of the agent that represents a celebrity. Their domain name. wait for it. is www.whorepresents.com 2. Experts Exchange, a knowledge base where programmers can exchange advice and views at www.expertsexchange.com 3. Looking for a pen? Look no further than Pen Island at www.penisland.net 4. Need a therapist? Try Therapist Finder at www.therapistfinder.com 5. Then of course, there's the Italian Power Generator company. www.powergenitalia.com 6. And now, we have the Mole Station Native Nursery, based in New South Wales: www.molestationnursery.com 7. If you're looking for computer software, there's always www.ipanywhere.com 8. Welcome to the First Cumming Methodist Church. Their website is www.cummingfirst.com 9. Then, of course, there's these brainless art designers, and their whacky website: www.speedofart.com 10. Want to holiday in Lake Tahoe? Try their brochure website at www.gotahoe.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 25 13:12:37 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6PJe9Hq025394; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:42:37 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6PIqaph023352; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 11:52:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 11:52:36 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=qwSBuDnWAs2X1DMBcedpsxh2iI2MzAB6k0pIu7MA1lcg8y7T0YutCeUObiAdQJBNsr8iMSwEp/OFwclvwXd2K0SaMimUyS/N68eWfnTYYMUbpbSOwmnNmUQv6xuJF5z0fzo6H/2RhFJI6NKibHP6EfMXab320yB/8JveB+wv/8U= Message-ID: Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 11:52:27 -0700 From: "leaking pen" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: OT: Buzz Aldrin comes clean In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_94042_32898004.1153853547868" References: <97816797.1153798735049.JavaMail.root fepweb09> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69837 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_Part_94042_32898004.1153853547868 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline lol. i happen to know the developer of the site. he specifically didnt get a dashed url when he registered it to have fun with it. and, maybe worldwide, but look internally. the chinese government system is built largely on the infallibility and strength of their leaders. not quite the living god that is kim jong il, but close. news that there are greater than human beings? not smart move! On 7/25/06, Terry Blanton wrote: > > On 7/25/06, leaking pen wrote: > > > but seriously, what would it avail them? what would be the benefit to > > admiting it publicly for them? > > You don't think they would get considerable political hay from > revealing that which our government (and others) has been hiding? > > Terry > > PS Your name reminds of one company's web site, Pen Island (yep, try it > ;-) > > -- That which yields isn't always weak. ------=_Part_94042_32898004.1153853547868 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
lol.   i happen to know the developer of the site.  he specifically didnt get a dashed url when he registered it to have fun with it. 
 
and, maybe worldwide, but look internally.  the chinese government system is built largely on the infallibility and strength of their leaders.  not quite the living god that is kim jong il, but close.  news that there are greater than human beings?  not smart move!

 
On 7/25/06, Terry Blanton <hohlraum@gmail.com> wrote:
On 7/25/06, leaking pen <itsatrap@gmail.com> wrote:

> but seriously, what would it avail them?  what would be the benefit to
> admiting it publicly for them?

You don't think they would get considerable political hay from
revealing that which our government (and others) has been hiding?

Terry

PS Your name reminds of one company's web site, Pen Island (yep, try it ;-)




--
That which yields isn't always weak. ------=_Part_94042_32898004.1153853547868-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 25 14:49:08 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6PLmkCi021918; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 14:48:47 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6PLmSna021715; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 14:48:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 14:48:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=ikxmSJI/ZmxI9T8JraXS3NQ3GRxJrT53SAzRTku0+DNLniiWiC/4fRYXfctlWF13oxX3cULGJ78mHQyEI/YGF210xvX2QArks3Is/JAqS/K9EUZUnX8URWmdeM61hNLViZY1jFbYOG95/Cfa7K01K7mM4jgwwz+GaFpQ/cH53Io= Message-ID: Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 17:48:22 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: OT: Buzz Aldrin comes clean In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <97816797.1153798735049.JavaMail.root fepweb09> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69838 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 7/25/06, leaking pen wrote: > > lol. i happen to know the developer of the site. he specifically didnt > get a dashed url when he registered it to have fun with it. That explains his kerning problem on the main page. ;-) Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 25 15:04:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6PM4LLv000637; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:04:21 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6PM4JGS000615; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:04:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:04:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: "Hoyt A. Stearns jr." To: Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:04:12 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <8c6Z.A.eJ.iVpxEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69839 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: [Vo]: Water motors Status: O X-Status: The threads on water motors caused me to recall some other ways. One inventor patented a convection motor -- simply put a big pipe loop up a mountain and let the 3 oF/1000 ft temperature lapse rate create a convection motor. Extending this idea, since water is most dense at 4 oC, how about a high column of 4 oC water with a small heat pump at the bottom splitting it into two streams, 6 oC and 2 oC and sending them back to the top where they mix back to 4 oC. Does that make any sense? Hoyt Stearns Scottsdale, Arizona http://members.cox.net/hoyt-stearns From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 25 15:32:16 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6PMJBj5009401; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:19:11 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6PMJ35a009328; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:19:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:19:03 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <003b01c6b038$4f430fd0$640fa8c0 MIKEBY3NR533HT> From: "Mike Carrell" To: References: <683156120.1153841043817.JavaMail.root fepweb02> Subject: Re: [Vo]: OT: Buzz Aldrin comes clean Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 18:18:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69840 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "OrionWorks" Subject: Re: [Vo]: OT: Buzz Aldrin comes clean > ---- Terry Blanton wrote: >> On 7/24/06, Steven wrote: >> >> > As convincing as the trailer and footage appears to be I suspect >> > nothing of any great significance will come of it. I've come to the >> > conclusion that too many of our planet's population simply aren't ready >> > to face the implications. The testimony and accumulated "evidence" will >> > continue to be meticulously ignored. >> >> Yes, but we are approaching a cusp. If the Chinese aren't a part of >> the cosmo club and those stories of airbrushing are true; then, they >> are soon to let the cat out of the bag (unless it's dinner) when they >> visit the moon. >> >> Disclosure is inevitable. The question is when. I have been a true >> believer for 4 decades and used to be sure it would happen in my >> lifetime. Now I'm not so sure. One story is that "they" have told >> the governments they have a timetable for disclosure or "they" will do >> the proverbial landing on the White House lawn. >> >> Wouldn't you love to see THAT on CNN! :-) >> >> Terry > > I have to admit that I belong pretty much in the same camp. In my youth I > was much more impatient and radical in my desire to see some form of a > public disclosure unfold, as if I feared the event would finally happen > after I died and I would miss out on all the fun. > > I'm now 53 years old, going on 54 next month. I realize my age still makes > me a young pup by the standards of others who post in this group. There > are others older and far wiser than I. > > The question I keep asking myself is will a "disclosure" happen overnight > or will the process actually turn out to be a gradual transformation, one > that when the historians look back took decades to slowly manifest through > the collective minds of the planetary population. > > The proverbial "landing on the White House" is, IMHO, an extremely > unlikely scenario. Least of all, it would snub all the other governmental > institutions - WHY didn't THEY land on OUR front lawn! The NERVE of them! > Harrumph! Ok, then, so why don’t "they" land on every government front > lawn simultaneously so as not to snub the rest of the government > institutions. But then you have to deal with the appearance of what would > look to many like a planned invasion. Ok, then, snub all the governments > and why not land in some remote region like the upper plateaus in Tibet. > But such an action would look to some like "they" are behaving in sneaky > remote ways. Some would complain: Why are they being so secretive!!!! > There just ain't no easy to way to introduce yourselves! ;-) > > IMHO, under the circumstances the only scenario I've been able to come up > with that seems the safest avenue to follow is to just flit about at safe > and hopefully non-threatening distances and occasionally wave through the > portholes - and hope enough of us will look up long enough from the > occasionally grisly scripts we have been playing out amongst ourselves - > just long enough to notice. It sounds like Buzz and Neil did just that on > their way to the moon. That took courage. Good for them! > > Some in this group will misconstrue my above mentioned scenario as > assuming I believe that, collectively speaking, they must all be friendly, > that they are here to serve and/or save us, when it seems so obvious to > them that "their" real "intentions" are to serve us up on a dinner > platter. IMHO, we really don't know what their "intentions" are. Maybe > there isn't just one "intention". Perhaps there are as many "intentions" > as there are stars shining in the universe. But we will never know, not > until we can open up a public dialog with "them." ========================== Steve has made some good points. Not to drag this thread too far, consider the following: 1) If you suspend automatic rejection and disinformation, there is ample evidence that visitors have been around for centuries and their craft have been seen and there may have been encounters of the third kind. 2) Any civilization that can get spacecraft here has an inherent capability that we do not understand, else there would not be the continued *disinformative explanations*. That doesn't make the visitors smarter: for example the European seamen did not build their ships or make their weapons. The visitors may have a few hundred years head start -- that's all it would take. Or they did not waste their energy in stupid wars like humans do. 3) If they have observed us, cutivating disclosure may be an old game, as in "Star Trek". Actually, the craft have been seen all over the earth and studiously ignored. The proper strategy may be one we don't understand. Carl Sagan in "Contact" had an interesting scenario. 4) As Greer has pointed out, formal disclosure and acknowledgement of humankind as sub-class [xenopobic, fratricidal, scientifically provincial] could have sprialling consequences for our attitudes and our economy. If you were an offical, would you want that on your watch? 5) "They" may be many, and for all I know, Earth may be a tourist stop. Taking out all our satellite capability could be short work if we needed spanking. 6) Oneof the most stupid things for humans to do would be an attempted military challenge. Let us hope coold heads prevail. 7) It has also possible that contact has been ongoing and very discreet, as in 4) above. It may also be possible that the energy and propulsion techology is extremely dangerous unless completely understood, much too dangerous for our present civilization. Mike Carrell > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This Email has been scanned for all viruses by Medford Leas I.T. > Department. > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 25 17:16:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6Q0GQQJ026995; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 17:16:27 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6Q0GNuo026946; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 17:16:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 17:16:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-Id: <200607260016.k6Q0GI9U020384 mail1.mx.voyager.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 19:16:18 -0500 From: "OrionWorks" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: svj orionworks.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: OT: Buzz Aldrin comes clean Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_fb7d557b5e9624aa22a0a9af20247aa3" X-Mailer: CoreComm Webmail X-IPAddress: 66.168.30.131 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69841 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=_fb7d557b5e9624aa22a0a9af20247aa3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > From Mike Carrell, ... > 5) "They" may be many, and for all I know, Earth may be > a tourist stop. Taking out all our satellite capability > could be short work if we needed spanking. LOL! Go to your room. No dinner for you tonight. ... > 7) It has also possible that contact has been ongoing and > very discreet, as in 4) above. It may also be possible that > the energy and propulsion techology is extremely dangerous > unless completely understood, much too dangerous for our > present civilization. > > Mike Carrell > Considering the difficulty we can encounter traveling about our own planet, like trying to plug in American-made appliances over in Europe. Jeez! God only knows what kind of an adapter we would need to run a Zort-o-Matic quantum matrix re-sequencer. Get a load of the installation instructions. Is that Japanese? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks --=_fb7d557b5e9624aa22a0a9af20247aa3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > From Mike Carrell,

...

> 5) "They" may be many, and for all I know, Earth may be
> a tourist stop. Taking out all our satellite capability
> could be short work if we needed spanking.

LOL!

Go to your room. No dinner for you tonight.

...

> 7) It has also possible that contact has been ongoing and
> very discreet, as in 4) above. It may also be possible that
> the energy and propulsion techology is extremely dangerous
> unless completely understood, much too dangerous for our
> present civilization.
>
> Mike Carrell
>

Considering the difficulty we can encounter traveling about our own planet,= like trying to plug in American-made appliances over in Europe. Jeez! God = only knows what kind of an adapter we would need to run a Zort-o-Matic quan= tum matrix re-sequencer. Get a load of the installation instructions. Is t= hat Japanese?


Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks --=_fb7d557b5e9624aa22a0a9af20247aa3-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 25 17:27:03 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6Q0Qa0e001982; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 17:26:37 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6Q0QYpi001938; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 17:26:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 17:26:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=cMIp0TWLP+s9TUafgVfbEi3ZYDL7jo/ipog9Ua4ocKCjOl2kPIzXRoyroWGnZUbXRPwU2eXxuRKSPyOcJos69JvDw6qm05JZrmJw+rLFJUtIxbB2Oh601MeeZFuHYtcGt86fkXA7bfR/gBI2SkA13gYJ04F43xxftyNJ1/yZHIY= Message-ID: Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 20:26:32 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <5OB8qD.A.Fe.5arxEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69842 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: [OT?] Chinese Black Helicopters Status: O X-Status: One of the most bizarre . . . well, you figure it out: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/07/19/huangyangtan_mystery/ "Chinese black helicopters circle Google Earth Mystery military project wows the crowd By Lester Haines Published Wednesday 19th July 2006 08:35 Those among you who like your skies darkened by black helicopters are invited to mosey on down to the remote Chinese village of Huangyangtan which hosts what must be the strangest military installation ever spotted by the Google Earth Community" From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 25 17:41:54 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6Q0fLdD012385; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 17:41:22 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6Q0fJw4012365; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 17:41:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 17:41:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=NVDZdOlW0FHyrEhATj2O+nvANUuzR3ZvjzBUC8RxTuGODzmUhuxP3PleGP0UgwPdZckKLTqsVBz4UlLikFj+m4QBUQjmJwrAWlXFQTXSkQ6aXmIlhGBueO83vWiMvlIUV/27TlIEq5RgMbVD/lxMXOLfUBEHl/lHDZvEZRzoP/Y= Message-ID: Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 20:41:17 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <_w-D0B.A.7AD.uorxEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69843 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Testing Transmutation Status: O X-Status: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/health/bal-te.alchemy22jul22,0,3470071.story?track=rss%20 http://tinyurl.com/zl7v8 "By Michael Stroh Sun reporter Originally published July 22, 2006 PHILADELPHIA // It's not exactly a seminar at Hogwarts. But Harry Potter devotees would still feel right at home with the scholars gathering this week to discuss the philosopher's stone, arsenic and the finer points of transmuting lead to gold. "I have a few flasks heating back in Baltimore as we speak," says Larry Principe, a Johns Hopkins professor of chemistry and history whose academic specialty might be dubbed experimental alchemy." From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 25 20:34:18 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6Q3XlhH032302; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 20:33:48 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6Q3XhWw032236; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 20:33:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 20:33:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-CVTV-Spamfilter: Scanned X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <001d01c6b064$44f9af30$88027841 xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 22:33:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01C6B03A.5B631650"; type="multipart/alternative" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: <9QPM5D.A.e3H.VKuxEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69844 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: [VO];Re: Chinese Black Helicopters Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C6B03A.5B631650 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001A_01C6B03A.5B631650" ------=_NextPart_001_001A_01C6B03A.5B631650 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankTerry mentioned.. Chinese village of Huangyangtan. Hwdy Terry, Tongue in cheek.. pronounce that chinese word .. orangutang.. make a = monkey outa Amelikan..hehe Richard ------=_NextPart_001_001A_01C6B03A.5B631650 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Terry mentioned..
 
Chinese village of Huangyangtan.
 
Hwdy Terry,
 
Tongue in cheek.. pronounce that chinese word  .. orangutang.. = make a=20 monkey outa Amelikan..hehe
 
Richard

 

------=_NextPart_001_001A_01C6B03A.5B631650-- ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C6B03A.5B631650 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <001801c6b064$44348a70$88027841 xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C6B03A.5B631650-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 25 20:52:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6Q3qTtV012823; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 20:52:30 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6Q3qS49012799; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 20:52:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 20:52:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Reply-To: From: "John Steck" To: Subject: RE: [Vo]: OT: Buzz Aldrin comes clean Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 22:52:08 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <683156120.1153841043817.JavaMail.root fepweb02> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-EN-UserInfo: 903cebd83ef8529e7e6c1a7efe57779c:d8c21b0922dfed363e9ac277a3db5901 X-EN-AuthUser: johnsteck Sender: "John Steck" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6Q3qInY012686 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69845 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The softening of public perception probably began after the HG Wells barometer test. I wonder how many movie/tv show scripts have been subsidized clandestinely since to desensitize public perception of OFOs/ETs...? Intentions? We may be nothing more than pets in a global terrarium. The far side base maybe just the broadcast end of a galactic wi-fi camera they get to watch us on their desktop for a nominal subscription fee. Because the fish in the tank can see you on the other side of the glass doesn't mean you should climb in the tank and treat them as equals. -john -----Original Message----- From: OrionWorks [mailto:orionworks charter.net] Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 10:24 AM To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: OT: Buzz Aldrin comes clean [snip] The question I keep asking myself is will a "disclosure" happen overnight or will the process actually turn out to be a gradual transformation, one that when the historians look back took decades to slowly manifest through the collective minds of the planetary population. [snip] Maybe there isn't just one "intention". Perhaps there are as many "intentions" as there are stars shining in the universe. But we will never know, not until we can open up a public dialog with "them." From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 25 20:54:09 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6Q3riQ3013535; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 20:53:44 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6Q3rh1X013518; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 20:53:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 20:53:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: OT: Buzz Aldrin comes clean Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 12:29:13 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <683156120.1153841043817.JavaMail.root fepweb02> <003b01c6b038$4f430fd0$640fa8c0@MIKEBY3NR533HT> In-Reply-To: <003b01c6b038$4f430fd0$640fa8c0 MIKEBY3NR533HT> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta02sl.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.65.19] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Wed, 26 Jul 2006 02:29:12 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6Q3reX6013483 Resent-Message-ID: <-MOxDD.A.KTD.GduxEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69846 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Mike Carrell's message of Tue, 25 Jul 2006 18:18:30 -0400: Hi, [snip] >4) As Greer has pointed out, formal disclosure and acknowledgement of >humankind as sub-class [xenopobic, fratricidal, scientifically provincial] >could have sprialling consequences for our attitudes and our economy. If you >were an offical, would you want that on your watch? If you were an alien observing Earth, would you want us visiting your planet? I think it's a safe bet, they are doing everything in their power to ensure we *don't* get advanced technology. And that probably includes steering us down as many technological and scientific "dead ends" as possible. (Another reason I'm no great adherent of SQM). > >5) "They" may be many, and for all I know, Earth may be a tourist stop. It probably is, but from a discreet distance. >Taking out all our satellite capability could be short work if we needed >spanking. I think they are a little more sophisticated. Replacing people in positions of power with "look alike's" is more likely IMO. Particularly those in charge of allocating funds to Universities. They would probably also introduce the occasional "seminal" paper, designed to retarget our scientific endeavors into limbo when the occasion arose. > >6) Oneof the most stupid things for humans to do would be an attempted >military challenge. Let us hope coold heads prevail. There probably aren't all that many targets. After all, only the occasional shuttle craft is needed to return "our" "guest workers" to their home planet when on furlough. If you think this is far fetched, then I suggest you read "The Contact Has Begun" and "The Challenge of Contact" by Phillip H. Krapf. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 25 21:12:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6Q4Ce4o025649; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 21:12:44 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6Q4CdOx025632; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 21:12:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 21:12:39 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Reply-To: From: "John Steck" To: Subject: RE: [Vo]: [OT?] Chinese Black Helicopters Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 23:12:28 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-EN-UserInfo: 903cebd83ef8529e7e6c1a7efe57779c:d8c21b0922dfed363e9ac277a3db5901 X-EN-AuthUser: johnsteck Sender: "John Steck" Resent-Message-ID: <15VUaC.A.ZQG.2uuxEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69847 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: It would be an interesting training ground for similarly scaled down remote piloted aircraft. From the monitor it would appear very real to the driver. >From space, the training exercises would be virtually invisible without using one of our best birds in geosync. Good way to develop a secret capability. Hiding in plain sight, eh? The real question is does it match any known landscape... -john -----Original Message----- From: Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlraum gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 7:27 PM To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: [OT?] Chinese Black Helicopters One of the most bizarre . . . well, you figure it out: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/07/19/huangyangtan_mystery/ "Chinese black helicopters circle Google Earth Mystery military project wows the crowd By Lester Haines Published Wednesday 19th July 2006 08:35 Those among you who like your skies darkened by black helicopters are invited to mosey on down to the remote Chinese village of Huangyangtan which hosts what must be the strangest military installation ever spotted by the Google Earth Community" From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 25 21:25:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6Q4PY95002871; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 21:25:35 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6Q4PXlA002852; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 21:25:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 21:25:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Reply-To: From: "John Steck" To: Subject: RE: [Vo]: [OT?] Chinese Black Helicopters Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 23:25:26 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-EN-UserInfo: 903cebd83ef8529e7e6c1a7efe57779c:d8c21b0922dfed363e9ac277a3db5901 X-EN-AuthUser: johnsteck Sender: "John Steck" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69848 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Seems to be the Aksai Chin region west of Tibet... the long lake being Lake Palgon apparently. Cool and weird at the same time. In one of the discussion threads a poster did an overlay of the model terrain and a satellite shot of the area it represents and it looks to be an extremely accurate reproduction. -john -----Original Message----- From: John Steck [mailto:johnsteck tetrahelix.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 11:12 PM To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]: [OT?] Chinese Black Helicopters It would be an interesting training ground for similarly scaled down remote piloted aircraft. From the monitor it would appear very real to the driver. >From space, the training exercises would be virtually invisible without using one of our best birds in geosync. Good way to develop a secret capability. Hiding in plain sight, eh? The real question is does it match any known landscape... -john -----Original Message----- From: Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlraum gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 7:27 PM To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: [OT?] Chinese Black Helicopters One of the most bizarre . . . well, you figure it out: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/07/19/huangyangtan_mystery/ "Chinese black helicopters circle Google Earth Mystery military project wows the crowd By Lester Haines Published Wednesday 19th July 2006 08:35 Those among you who like your skies darkened by black helicopters are invited to mosey on down to the remote Chinese village of Huangyangtan which hosts what must be the strangest military installation ever spotted by the Google Earth Community" From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 25 22:49:17 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6Q5mxrl023861; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 22:49:03 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6Q5msLB023814; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 22:48:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 22:48:53 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <44C701BE.90504 ihug.co.nz> Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 17:46:38 +1200 From: John Berry User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (Windows/20060516) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69849 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Status: O X-Status: As there haven't been any replies to my previous post (Bifilar coil attracting a charge and Faraday motor no lenz), I'm left wondering why, was it not understood? Was an obvious fault seen that didn't seem worthy of reply? Was it understood and no fault was found leaving people scratching their head or was it simply not read? (Or am I impatient?) Does anyone disagree that if you travel parallel to a wire carrying a DC current and your direction of movement is against the electron drift, the EMF felt by charges (i.e your body) moving through that magnetic field (mutually perpendicular to your motion and the B field, hence a radial 'motional e-field' ala Hooper and is the same that induces a DC voltage in a Faraday Generator) should not increase no matter what speed you move along the wire because just as the EMF from the electrons does increase, all but a constant portion is canceled by the EMF from the unbalanced moving (in your reference frame) protons. If I may ask for an analysis of what should happen if the above experiment were done. As far as I can see however because the magnetic field is produced by the protons and electrons (if this were not so rotating an electromagnet on it's axis would greatly increase it's magnetic field) then the EMF induced will always be the difference between the electrons and protons which is always be the same regardless of the speed at which you move parallel to the current. (unless you move with the electrons in which case the EMF would decrease to zero at 50% of the electron drift velocity as you would then have electrons and protons moving in opposite directions, increasing till at the electron drift velocity you would see the same strength EMF as standing still except the EMF polarity is reversed) If this is the case then I'm pretty sure that the coil arrangement I mentioned in the last post would work and either way it would mean a Faraday motor with no lenz force would be possible. (Gur bayl jnl V pna frr guvf abg jbexvat vf vs zbivat cnfg n punetr qbrfa'g perngr n zntargvp svryq, ohg vg vf xabja gung ebgngvat n punetrq qvfx qbrf perngr n zntargvp svryq, guvf jbhyq erdhver na nrgure, n punetrf zbgvba guebhtu juvpu jbhyq unir vg cebqhpr n zntargvp svryq ohg abg frr n punetr fgngvbanel gb gur nrgure nf cebqhpvat n zntargvp svryq) > I had some further ideas as writing this, the best stuff is found after: > ***Faraday!!*** > > Due to the 'motional e-field' or pancaking of the electric field of the > electron drift in a wire a positive charge or charged object should be > attracted and a negatively charged one repelled, the moving electrons > also should see the stationary charges as moving for them their > reference frame > > <==> coil > <==> charged disk > > This would work even if the coil is canceling bifilar. > But the magnitude of attraction would be rather small of course as it is > the worst of both worlds as the number of unbalanced charges on the disk > are far fewer than the number of conducting electrons in a wire and the > drift velocity is very slow, so it would be of the same strength as if > the disk was rotated at electron drift velocity which would be a very > sad B field. > > But one question that comes to mind, would a charged disk feel a self > inductance resistance to and acceleration or deceleration as a coil > producing a similar field would find? If the answer is yes and assuming > the answer would be yes for any charged object accelerating (could this > be how Woodward works? could it be that the magnetic field from a > charged cap accelerating creates self inductance? It would act as it it > has gained inertial mass when charged) then why wouldn't all matter feel > this self induced resistance to acceleration/deceleration (sure from a > distance charge balanced matter is neutral but on a microscopic atomic > scale the moving charges would create an abundance of tiny magnetic > fields), besides inertia (it would be cool if this was the cause of > inertial mass of course but that would give electrons and protons the > same inertial mass and neutrons would have none) no such force is > measured so does this mean that self inductance doesn't occur in these > situations? Does an electron accelerated in a particle accelerator feel > any self inductance or normal inertia only? > > If it is possible to establish a magnetic field without penalty however > then it is possible to spin up a charged disk and because there was no > energy invested in producing the magnetic field any energy tapped by say > a coil (said coil being open circuit as it was spun up) as the disk is > stopped would seemingly be free?????? > > I don't even want to get into the pinch effect. > > ***Faraday!!*** > > As for the Faraday motor, consider what would happen if you started > running along a long wire against the electron drift, if you weren't > moving, the moving electrons would be passing you at 1 m/s (I just > searched and found Beaty arguing that indeed the speed is something > around that fast) and the protons would of course be stationary, so if > you start to run against the drift at say 1m/s then the electrons > composing the current are now passing you at 2 m/s and the protons at 1 > m/s, still a difference of 1 m/s and no matter how fast you move that's > all it will be, just as much as if you weren't moving at all. > So at this point you can look at it as flux cutting, in which case > moving against the drift faster and faster doesn't produce a higher EMF > because you are also cutting the flux produced by the protons as well, > or you can look at it as pancaking fields of electrons and protons but > either way you aren't going to get a higher voltage by speeding up. > > So what if we now built a Faraday motor out of copper only, no iron or > permanent magnets. > So take an electromagnet (big loop DC, copper only), it will be > stationary, imagine your looking at it's N pole now with electron drift > in a cw direction, take a copper disk on an axle (or pool of mercury) > place it inside the hoop coil and apply a negative DC source to the > center taking the current off at the edges with brushes, the disk will > rotate in a ccw direction but there will be no back EMF, if you instead > tried to use it in generator mode it simply would not work rotated in a > ccw direction no voltage would be generated because the voltage induced > in the disk would be equal and opposite to the voltage induced in the > brushes and external circuit because the rotation has made no change! > > Here is another thought, if moving faster doesn't increase the force > what if we put a very high resistance thin wire and a big fat wire (or a > multicore) of equal lengths, wound them together connecting them in > series so that when a current is passed through they cancel creating no > detectable B field. > However while the same number of charges will be passing through any > point of this strange coil the electron drift in one should be much > faster but there should be fewer moving charges, they should see the > magnetic field produced by the electromagnet in that Faraday motor > differently! (lets say the fat part has 10,000 electrons moving at 1 m/s > per mm of wire, the thin part having 1,000 electrons moving at 10,000 > m/s per mm of wire, as the higher speed doesn't lead to increased EMF > from cutting of the lines all that really matters is that there are 10 > times more electron moving in the fat part creating x10 stronger force. > (assuming that the coil (in this case the one we used for the Faraday > motor) has the same electron drift speed as the fat part) > > > So while this coil wouldn't create a magnetic field it would react to > one, though at this moment I'm not sure the other coil would be > effected!!!!! (unidirectional motion????????) > > Could it be that iron and permanent magnets have been screwing up up all > this time? > > I'd love replies to this but please I haven't used any equations and > would generally rather not get a reply in equation form or at least not > the bulk of it. > (unless it is well explained) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 25 23:15:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6Q6Ek9k009355; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 23:14:50 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6Q6EbxJ009269; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 23:14:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 23:14:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=WjfzwcL3P1qjq7Pa4AaXW6k2Hnp8AlV8QY6yvcUpRG1tGHkVjUvYH1igmh6XdwDw3nVyQi1k1TNWwrkROT+DYG7hEgDFT/UGiP4hYEqucvbaJ1iAzCHG/BmS4nUfIASELCjCcq5mL7qTWkhZ3Cc3bKY7BzZV3LecVs71kjZFSfo= Message-ID: Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 02:14:33 -0400 From: "John Berry" To: vortex-L eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_107595_32668861.1153894473158" Resent-Message-ID: <71bWyB.A.iQC.MhwxEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69850 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Status: O X-Status: ------=_Part_107595_32668861.1153894473158 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -Resent (from different email address) because other one had problems.- As there haven't been any replies to my previous post (Bifilar coil attracting a charge and Faraday motor no lenz), I'm left wondering why, was it not understood? Was an obvious fault seen that didn't seem worthy of reply? Was it understood and no fault was found leaving people scratching their head or was it simply not read? (Or am I impatient?) Does anyone disagree that if you travel parallel to a wire carrying a DC current and your direction of movement is against the electron drift, the EMF felt by charges (i.e your body) moving through that magnetic field (mutually perpendicular to your motion and the B field, hence a radial 'motional e-field' ala Hooper and is the same that induces a DC voltage in a Faraday Generator) should not increase no matter what speed you move along the wire because just as the EMF from the electrons does increase, all but a constant portion is canceled by the EMF from the unbalanced moving (in your reference frame) protons. If I may ask for an analysis of what should happen if the above experiment were done. As far as I can see however because the magnetic field is produced by the protons and electrons (if this were not so rotating an electromagnet on it's axis would greatly increase it's magnetic field) then the EMF induced will always be the difference between the electrons and protons which is always be the same regardless of the speed at which you move parallel to the current. (unless you move with the electrons in which case the EMF would decrease to zero at 50% of the electron drift velocity as you would then have electrons and protons moving in opposite directions, increasing till at the electron drift velocity you would see the same strength EMF as standing still except the EMF polarity is reversed) If this is the case then I'm pretty sure that the coil arrangement I mentioned in the last post would work and either way it would mean a Faraday motor with no lenz force would be possible. (Gur bayl jnl V pna frr guvf abg jbexvat vf vs zbivat cnfg n punetr qbrfa'g perngr n zntargvp svryq, ohg vg vf xabja gung ebgngvat n punetrq qvfx qbrf perngr n zntargvp svryq, guvf jbhyq erdhver na nrgure, n punetrf zbgvba guebhtu juvpu jbhyq unir vg cebqhpr n zntargvp svryq ohg abg frr n punetr fgngvbanel gb gur nrgure nf cebqhpvat n zntargvp svryq) > I had some further ideas as writing this, the best stuff is found after: > ***Faraday!!*** > > Due to the 'motional e-field' or pancaking of the electric field of the > electron drift in a wire a positive charge or charged object should be > attracted and a negatively charged one repelled, the moving electrons > also should see the stationary charges as moving for them their > reference frame > > <==> coil > <==> charged disk > > This would work even if the coil is canceling bifilar. > But the magnitude of attraction would be rather small of course as it is > the worst of both worlds as the number of unbalanced charges on the disk > are far fewer than the number of conducting electrons in a wire and the > drift velocity is very slow, so it would be of the same strength as if > the disk was rotated at electron drift velocity which would be a very > sad B field. > > But one question that comes to mind, would a charged disk feel a self > inductance resistance to and acceleration or deceleration as a coil > producing a similar field would find? If the answer is yes and assuming > the answer would be yes for any charged object accelerating (could this > be how Woodward works? could it be that the magnetic field from a > charged cap accelerating creates self inductance? It would act as it it > has gained inertial mass when charged) then why wouldn't all matter feel > this self induced resistance to acceleration/deceleration (sure from a > distance charge balanced matter is neutral but on a microscopic atomic > scale the moving charges would create an abundance of tiny magnetic > fields), besides inertia (it would be cool if this was the cause of > inertial mass of course but that would give electrons and protons the > same inertial mass and neutrons would have none) no such force is > measured so does this mean that self inductance doesn't occur in these > situations? Does an electron accelerated in a particle accelerator feel > any self inductance or normal inertia only? > > If it is possible to establish a magnetic field without penalty however > then it is possible to spin up a charged disk and because there was no > energy invested in producing the magnetic field any energy tapped by say > a coil (said coil being open circuit as it was spun up) as the disk is > stopped would seemingly be free?????? > > I don't even want to get into the pinch effect. > > ***Faraday!!*** > > As for the Faraday motor, consider what would happen if you started > running along a long wire against the electron drift, if you weren't > moving, the moving electrons would be passing you at 1 m/s (I just > searched and found Beaty arguing that indeed the speed is something > around that fast) and the protons would of course be stationary, so if > you start to run against the drift at say 1m/s then the electrons > composing the current are now passing you at 2 m/s and the protons at 1 > m/s, still a difference of 1 m/s and no matter how fast you move that's > all it will be, just as much as if you weren't moving at all. > So at this point you can look at it as flux cutting, in which case > moving against the drift faster and faster doesn't produce a higher EMF > because you are also cutting the flux produced by the protons as well, > or you can look at it as pancaking fields of electrons and protons but > either way you aren't going to get a higher voltage by speeding up. > > So what if we now built a Faraday motor out of copper only, no iron or > permanent magnets. > So take an electromagnet (big loop DC, copper only), it will be > stationary, imagine your looking at it's N pole now with electron drift > in a cw direction, take a copper disk on an axle (or pool of mercury) > place it inside the hoop coil and apply a negative DC source to the > center taking the current off at the edges with brushes, the disk will > rotate in a ccw direction but there will be no back EMF, if you instead > tried to use it in generator mode it simply would not work rotated in a > ccw direction no voltage would be generated because the voltage induced > in the disk would be equal and opposite to the voltage induced in the > brushes and external circuit because the rotation has made no change! > > Here is another thought, if moving faster doesn't increase the force > what if we put a very high resistance thin wire and a big fat wire (or a > multicore) of equal lengths, wound them together connecting them in > series so that when a current is passed through they cancel creating no > detectable B field. > However while the same number of charges will be passing through any > point of this strange coil the electron drift in one should be much > faster but there should be fewer moving charges, they should see the > magnetic field produced by the electromagnet in that Faraday motor > differently! (lets say the fat part has 10,000 electrons moving at 1 m/s > per mm of wire, the thin part having 1,000 electrons moving at 10,000 > m/s per mm of wire, as the higher speed doesn't lead to increased EMF > from cutting of the lines all that really matters is that there are 10 > times more electron moving in the fat part creating x10 stronger force. > (assuming that the coil (in this case the one we used for the Faraday > motor) has the same electron drift speed as the fat part) > > > So while this coil wouldn't create a magnetic field it would react to > one, though at this moment I'm not sure the other coil would be > effected!!!!! (unidirectional motion????????) > > Could it be that iron and permanent magnets have been screwing up up all > this time? > > I'd love replies to this but please I haven't used any equations and > would generally rather not get a reply in equation form or at least not > the bulk of it. > (unless it is well explained) ------=_Part_107595_32668861.1153894473158 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -Resent (from different email address) because other one had problems.-

As there haven't been any replies to my previous post (Bifilar coil
attracting a charge and Faraday motor no lenz), I'm left wondering why,
was it not understood? Was an obvious fault seen that didn't seem worthy
of reply?
Was it understood and no fault was found leaving people scratching their
head or was it simply not read? (Or am I impatient?)

Does anyone disagree that if you travel parallel to a wire carrying a DC
current and your direction of movement is against the electron drift,
the EMF felt by charges (i.e your body) moving through that magnetic
field (mutually perpendicular to your motion and the B field, hence a
radial 'motional e-field' ala Hooper and is the same that induces a DC
voltage in a Faraday Generator) should not increase no matter what speed
you move along the wire because just as the EMF from the electrons does
increase, all but a constant portion is canceled by the EMF from the
unbalanced moving (in your reference frame) protons.

If I may ask for an analysis of what should happen if the above
experiment were done.
As far as I can see however because the magnetic field is produced by
the protons and electrons (if this were not so rotating an electromagnet
on it's axis would greatly increase it's magnetic field) then the EMF
induced will always be the difference between the electrons and protons
which is always be the same regardless of the speed at which you move
parallel to the current. (unless you move with the electrons in which
case the EMF would decrease to zero at 50% of the electron drift
velocity as you would then have electrons and protons moving in opposite
directions, increasing till at the electron drift velocity you would see
the same strength EMF as standing still except the EMF polarity is reversed)

If this is the case then I'm pretty sure that the coil arrangement I
mentioned in the last post would work and either way it would mean a
Faraday motor with no lenz force would be possible.


(Gur bayl jnl V pna frr guvf abg jbexvat vf vs zbivat cnfg n punetr
qbrfa'g perngr n zntargvp svryq, ohg vg vf xabja gung ebgngvat n punetrq
qvfx qbrf perngr n zntargvp svryq, guvf jbhyq erdhver na nrgure, n
punetrf zbgvba guebhtu juvpu jbhyq unir vg cebqhpr n zntargvp svryq ohg
abg frr n punetr fgngvbanel gb gur nrgure nf cebqhpvat n zntargvp svryq)



> I had some further ideas as writing this, the best stuff is found after:
> ***Faraday!!***
>
> Due to the 'motional e-field' or pancaking of the electric field of the
> electron drift in a wire a positive charge or charged object should be
> attracted and a negatively charged one repelled, the moving electrons
> also should see the stationary charges as moving for them their
> reference frame
>
> <==> coil
> <==> charged disk
>
> This would work even if the coil is canceling bifilar.
> But the magnitude of attraction would be rather small of course as it is
> the worst of both worlds as the number of unbalanced charges on the disk
> are far fewer than the number of conducting electrons in a wire and the
> drift velocity is very slow, so it would be of the same strength as if
> the disk was rotated at electron drift velocity which would be a very
> sad B field.
>
> But one question that comes to mind, would a charged disk feel a self
> inductance resistance to and acceleration or deceleration as a coil
> producing a similar field would find? If the answer is yes and assuming
> the answer would be yes for any charged object accelerating (could this
> be how Woodward works? could it be that the magnetic field from a
> charged cap accelerating creates self inductance? It would act as it it
> has gained inertial mass when charged) then why wouldn't all matter feel
> this self induced resistance to acceleration/deceleration (sure from a
> distance charge balanced matter is neutral but on a microscopic atomic
> scale the moving charges would create an abundance of tiny magnetic
> fields), besides inertia (it would be cool if this was the cause of
> inertial mass of course but that would give electrons and protons the
> same inertial mass and neutrons would have none) no such force is
> measured so does this mean that self inductance doesn't occur in these
> situations? Does an electron accelerated in a particle accelerator feel
> any self inductance or normal inertia only?
>
> If it is possible to establish a magnetic field without penalty however
> then it is possible to spin up a charged disk and because there was no
> energy invested in producing the magnetic field any energy tapped by say
> a coil (said coil being open circuit as it was spun up) as the disk is
> stopped would seemingly be free??????
>
> I don't even want to get into the pinch effect.
>
> ***Faraday!!***
>
> As for the Faraday motor, consider what would happen if you started
> running along a long wire against the electron drift, if you weren't
> moving, the moving electrons would be passing you at 1 m/s (I just
> searched and found Beaty arguing that indeed the speed is something
> around that fast) and the protons would of course be stationary, so if
> you start to run against the drift at say 1m/s then the electrons
> composing the current are now passing you at 2 m/s and the protons at 1
> m/s, still a difference of 1 m/s and no matter how fast you move that's
> all it will be, just as much as if you weren't moving at all.
> So at this point you can look at it as flux cutting, in which case
> moving against the drift faster and faster doesn't produce a higher EMF
> because you are also cutting the flux produced by the protons as well,
> or you can look at it as pancaking fields of electrons and protons but
> either way you aren't going to get a higher voltage by speeding up.
>
> So what if we now built a Faraday motor out of copper only, no iron or
> permanent magnets.
> So take an electromagnet (big loop DC, copper only), it will be
> stationary, imagine your looking at it's N pole now with electron drift
> in a cw direction, take a copper disk on an axle (or pool of mercury)
> place it inside the hoop coil and apply a negative DC source to the
> center taking the current off at the edges with brushes, the disk will
> rotate in a ccw direction but there will be no back EMF, if you instead
> tried to use it in generator mode it simply would not work rotated in a
> ccw direction no voltage would be generated because the voltage induced
> in the disk would be equal and opposite to the voltage induced in the
> brushes and external circuit because the rotation has made no change!
>
> Here is another thought, if moving faster doesn't increase the force
> what if we put a very high resistance thin wire and a big fat wire (or a
> multicore) of equal lengths, wound them together connecting them in
> series so that when a current is passed through they cancel creating no
> detectable B field.
> However while the same number of charges will be passing through any
> point of this strange coil the electron drift in one should be much
> faster but there should be fewer moving charges, they should see the
> magnetic field produced by the electromagnet in that Faraday motor
> differently! (lets say the fat part has 10,000 electrons moving at 1 m/s
> per mm of wire, the thin part having 1,000 electrons moving at 10,000
> m/s per mm of wire, as the higher speed doesn't lead to increased EMF
> from cutting of the lines all that really matters is that there are 10
> times more electron moving in the fat part creating x10 stronger force.
> (assuming that the coil (in this case the one we used for the Faraday
> motor) has the same electron drift speed as the fat part)
>
>
> So while this coil wouldn't create a magnetic field it would react to
> one, though at this moment I'm not sure the other coil would be
> effected!!!!! (unidirectional motion????????)
>
> Could it be that iron and permanent magnets have been screwing up up all
> this time?
>
> I'd love replies to this but please I haven't used any equations and
> would generally rather not get a reply in equation form or at least not
> the bulk of it.
> (unless it is well explained)
------=_Part_107595_32668861.1153894473158-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Jul 25 23:41:18 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6Q6WdWd022240; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 23:32:39 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6Q6WVlQ022147; Tue, 25 Jul 2006 23:32:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 23:32:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=DlYUEvuwQk2B+ca/9O5Jvlbk7cIYMs3pCxu1n+0UaXMu7y5FxARU473WWfcKLrJNBBOLvs7LgOg8L3742r06RLgwOuQ2zItz8nOqlK1T7aUSsSNyuSjXoJ/iP3+Wycw+sB/4by08Vi8eqOrSTR5PV7fmmn4jYqx5z7Zx/5TXi8s= Message-ID: Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 02:32:19 -0400 From: "John Berry" To: vortex-L eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Just a test - subject keeps getting eaten MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_107731_31269844.1153895539910" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69851 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_Part_107731_31269844.1153895539910 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline This is a test to see if the subject will stay if I put the [Vo]: part in front as the last time I posted to vortex there was no identification in the subject. (In other words I haven't posted in years) ------=_Part_107731_31269844.1153895539910 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline This is a test to see if the subject will stay if I put the [Vo]:  part in front as the last time I posted to vortex there was no identification in the subject. (In other words I haven't posted in years)
------=_Part_107731_31269844.1153895539910-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 26 01:59:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6Q8xJUL017132; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 01:59:20 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6Q8xHhh017100; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 01:59:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 01:59:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=O3JtccekJxIDvO/j7E66ucEYDu0r0CEvPJ3glEWOlX+aQ0rhQLCaKBuGIYtDk9HFgKsVo7tBXNbl25Eiqvd3psQIHU4O6QSmU1bcXbTAJU4nIRoqmGxwBikyovPMCdASUawCJNOOY0N+XTXr9wOuqYJCDtop7RlCHLFC2EJss2o= Message-ID: Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 04:57:28 -0400 From: "John Berry" To: vortex-L eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Induction - find my error !?! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_109594_9276911.1153904248475" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69852 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_Part_109594_9276911.1153904248475 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Something very odd is going on with my email so I have sent this a few times, though this is the first time (I hope) with a subject, I apologize for reposting. (it will be interesting to see if both of my subscribed addresses get this email with subject) As there haven't been any replies to my previous post (Bifilar coil attracting a charge and Faraday motor no lenz), I'm left wondering why, was it not understood? Was an obvious fault seen that didn't seem worthy of reply? Was it understood and no fault was found leaving people scratching their head or was it simply not read? (Or am I impatient?) Does anyone disagree that if you travel parallel to a wire carrying a DC current and your direction of movement is against the electron drift, the EMF felt by charges (i.e your body) moving through that magnetic field (mutually perpendicular to your motion and the B field, hence a radial 'motional e-field' ala Hooper and is the same that induces a DC voltage in a Faraday Generator) should not increase no matter what speed you move along the wire? Because just as the EMF from the electrons does increase, all but a constant portion is canceled by the EMF from the unbalanced moving (in your reference frame) protons. If I may ask for an analysis of what should happen if the above experiment were done. As far as I can see however because the magnetic field is produced by the protons and electrons (if this were not so rotating an electromagnet on it's axis would greatly increase it's magnetic field) then the EMF induced will always be the difference between the electrons and protons which is always be the same regardless of the speed at which you move parallel to the current. (unless you move with the electrons in which case the EMF would decrease to zero at 50% of the electron drift velocity as you would then have electrons and protons moving in opposite directions, increasing till at the electron drift velocity you would see the same strength EMF as standing still except the EMF polarity is reversed) If this is the case then I'm pretty sure that the coil arrangement I mentioned in the last post would work and either way it would mean a Faraday motor with no lenz force would be possible. I am intending to test this and have thought how to wind the coils at amplify the effect, if anyone is willing to do the calculations or willing to talk about what would be a good way to experient with this it would be much appreciated. (Gur bayl jnl V pna frr guvf abg jbexvat vf vs zbivat cnfg n punetr qbrfa'g perngr n zntargvp svryq, ohg vg vf xabja gung ebgngvat n punetrq qvfx qbrf perngr n zntargvp svryq, guvf jbhyq erdhver na nrgure, n punetrf zbgvba guebhtu juvpu jbhyq unir vg cebqhpr n zntargvp svryq ohg abg frr n punetr fgngvbanel gb gur nrgure nf cebqhpvat n zntargvp svryq) Ohg vs guvf jnf gur pnfr guna n fgngvbanel fgngvp punetr jvgu na RZS cynprq ba vg ol na N svryq (sebz inevbhf frghcf vapyhqvat gur ovsvyne nggenpgvat n punetr zragvbarq va gur svefg znvy) jbhyq abg cynpr nal sbepr onpx ba gur jver be jungrire perngrq gur RZS. Unf nalbar fhpprffshyyl qrgrpgrq n zntargvp svryq sebz n punetr ng erfg eryngvir gb gur rnegu/fheebhaqvatf sebz n zbivat ersrerapr senzr? > I had some further ideas as writing this, the best stuff is found after: > ***Faraday!!*** > > Due to the 'motional e-field' or pancaking of the electric field of the > electron drift in a wire a positive charge or charged object should be > attracted and a negatively charged one repelled, the moving electrons > also should see the stationary charges as moving for them their > reference frame > > <==> coil > <==> charged disk > > This would work even if the coil is canceling bifilar. > But the magnitude of attraction would be rather small of course as it is > the worst of both worlds as the number of unbalanced charges on the disk > are far fewer than the number of conducting electrons in a wire and the > drift velocity is very slow, so it would be of the same strength as if > the disk was rotated at electron drift velocity which would be a very > sad B field. > > But one question that comes to mind, would a charged disk feel a self > inductance resistance to and acceleration or deceleration as a coil > producing a similar field would find? If the answer is yes and assuming > the answer would be yes for any charged object accelerating (could this > be how Woodward works? could it be that the magnetic field from a > charged cap accelerating creates self inductance? It would act as it it > has gained inertial mass when charged) then why wouldn't all matter feel > this self induced resistance to acceleration/deceleration (sure from a > distance charge balanced matter is neutral but on a microscopic atomic > scale the moving charges would create an abundance of tiny magnetic > fields), besides inertia (it would be cool if this was the cause of > inertial mass of course but that would give electrons and protons the > same inertial mass and neutrons would have none) no such force is > measured so does this mean that self inductance doesn't occur in these > situations? Does an electron accelerated in a particle accelerator feel > any self inductance or normal inertia only? > > If it is possible to establish a magnetic field without penalty however > then it is possible to spin up a charged disk and because there was no > energy invested in producing the magnetic field any energy tapped by say > a coil (said coil being open circuit as it was spun up) as the disk is > stopped would seemingly be free?????? > > I don't even want to get into the pinch effect. > > ***Faraday!!*** > > As for the Faraday motor, consider what would happen if you started > running along a long wire against the electron drift, if you weren't > moving, the moving electrons would be passing you at 1 m/s (I just > searched and found Beaty arguing that indeed the speed is something > around that fast) and the protons would of course be stationary, so if > you start to run against the drift at say 1m/s then the electrons > composing the current are now passing you at 2 m/s and the protons at 1 > m/s, still a difference of 1 m/s and no matter how fast you move that's > all it will be, just as much as if you weren't moving at all. > So at this point you can look at it as flux cutting, in which case > moving against the drift faster and faster doesn't produce a higher EMF > because you are also cutting the flux produced by the protons as well, > or you can look at it as pancaking fields of electrons and protons but > either way you aren't going to get a higher voltage by speeding up. > > So what if we now built a Faraday motor out of copper only, no iron or > permanent magnets. > So take an electromagnet (big loop DC, copper only), it will be > stationary, imagine your looking at it's N pole now with electron drift > in a cw direction, take a copper disk on an axle (or pool of mercury) > place it inside the hoop coil and apply a negative DC source to the > center taking the current off at the edges with brushes, the disk will > rotate in a ccw direction but there will be no back EMF, if you instead > tried to use it in generator mode it simply would not work rotated in a > ccw direction no voltage would be generated because the voltage induced > in the disk would be equal and opposite to the voltage induced in the > brushes and external circuit because the rotation has made no change! > > Here is another thought, if moving faster doesn't increase the force > what if we put a very high resistance thin wire and a big fat wire (or a > multicore) of equal lengths, wound them together connecting them in > series so that when a current is passed through they cancel creating no > detectable B field. > However while the same number of charges will be passing through any > point of this strange coil the electron drift in one should be much > faster but there should be fewer moving charges, they should see the > magnetic field produced by the electromagnet in that Faraday motor > differently! (lets say the fat part has 10,000 electrons moving at 1 m/s > per mm of wire, the thin part having 1,000 electrons moving at 10,000 > m/s per mm of wire, as the higher speed doesn't lead to increased EMF > from cutting of the lines all that really matters is that there are 10 > times more electron moving in the fat part creating x10 stronger force. > (assuming that the coil (in this case the one we used for the Faraday > motor) has the same electron drift speed as the fat part) > > > So while this coil wouldn't create a magnetic field it would react to > one, though at this moment I'm not sure the other coil would be > effected!!!!! (unidirectional motion????????) > > Could it be that iron and permanent magnets have been screwing up up all > this time? > > I'd love replies to this but please I haven't used any equations and > would generally rather not get a reply in equation form or at least not > the bulk of it. > (unless it is well explained) ------=_Part_109594_9276911.1153904248475 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Something very odd is going on with my email so I have sent this a few times, though this is the first time (I hope) with a subject, I apologize for reposting. (it will be interesting to see if both of my subscribed addresses get this email with subject)

As there haven't been any replies to my previous post (Bifilar coil
attracting a charge and Faraday motor no lenz), I'm left wondering why,
was it not understood? Was an obvious fault seen that didn't seem worthy
of reply?
Was it understood and no fault was found leaving people scratching their
head or was it simply not read? (Or am I impatient?)

Does anyone disagree that if you travel parallel to a wire carrying a DC
current and your direction of movement is against the electron drift,
the EMF felt by charges (i.e your body) moving through that magnetic
field (mutually perpendicular to your motion and the B field, hence a
radial 'motional e-field' ala Hooper and is the same that induces a DC
voltage in a Faraday Generator) should not increase no matter what speed
you move along the wire?

Because just as the EMF from the electrons does
increase, all but a constant portion is canceled by the EMF from the
unbalanced moving (in your reference frame) protons.

If I may ask for an analysis of what should happen if the above
experiment were done.

As far as I can see however because the magnetic field is produced by
the protons and electrons (if this were not so rotating an electromagnet
on it's axis would greatly increase it's magnetic field) then the EMF
induced will always be the difference between the electrons and protons
which is always be the same regardless of the speed at which you move
parallel to the current. (unless you move with the electrons in which
case the EMF would decrease to zero at 50% of the electron drift
velocity as you would then have electrons and protons moving in opposite
directions, increasing till at the electron drift velocity you would see
the same strength EMF as standing still except the EMF polarity is reversed)

If this is the case then I'm pretty sure that the coil arrangement I
mentioned in the last post would work and either way it would mean a
Faraday motor with no lenz force would be possible.

I am intending to test this and have thought how to wind the coils at amplify the effect, if anyone is willing to do the calculations or willing to talk about what would be a good way to experient with this it would be much appreciated.

(Gur bayl jnl V pna frr guvf abg jbexvat vf vs zbivat cnfg n punetr
qbrfa'g perngr n zntargvp svryq, ohg vg vf xabja gung ebgngvat n punetrq
qvfx qbrf perngr n zntargvp svryq, guvf jbhyq erdhver na nrgure, n
punetrf zbgvba guebhtu juvpu jbhyq unir vg cebqhpr n zntargvp svryq ohg
abg frr n punetr fgngvbanel gb gur nrgure nf cebqhpvat n zntargvp svryq)

Ohg vs guvf jnf gur pnfr guna n fgngvbanel fgngvp punetr jvgu na RZS cynprq ba vg ol na N svryq (sebz inevbhf frghcf vapyhqvat gur ovsvyne nggenpgvat n punetr zragvbarq va gur svefg znvy) jbhyq abg cynpr nal sbepr onpx ba gur jver be jungrire perngrq gur RZS.

Unf nalbar fhpprffshyyl qrgrpgrq n zntargvp svryq sebz n punetr ng erfg eryngvir gb gur rnegu/fheebhaqvatf sebz n zbivat ersrerapr senzr?

> I had some further ideas as writing this, the best stuff is found after:
> ***Faraday!!***
>
> Due to the 'motional e-field' or pancaking of the electric field of the
> electron drift in a wire a positive charge or charged object should be
> attracted and a negatively charged one repelled, the moving electrons
> also should see the stationary charges as moving for them their
> reference frame
>
> <==> coil
> <==> charged disk
>
> This would work even if the coil is canceling bifilar.
> But the magnitude of attraction would be rather small of course as it is
> the worst of both worlds as the number of unbalanced charges on the disk
> are far fewer than the number of conducting electrons in a wire and the
> drift velocity is very slow, so it would be of the same strength as if
> the disk was rotated at electron drift velocity which would be a very
> sad B field.
>
> But one question that comes to mind, would a charged disk feel a self
> inductance resistance to and acceleration or deceleration as a coil
> producing a similar field would find? If the answer is yes and assuming
> the answer would be yes for any charged object accelerating (could this
> be how Woodward works? could it be that the magnetic field from a
> charged cap accelerating creates self inductance? It would act as it it
> has gained inertial mass when charged) then why wouldn't all matter feel
> this self induced resistance to acceleration/deceleration (sure from a
> distance charge balanced matter is neutral but on a microscopic atomic
> scale the moving charges would create an abundance of tiny magnetic
> fields), besides inertia (it would be cool if this was the cause of
> inertial mass of course but that would give electrons and protons the
> same inertial mass and neutrons would have none) no such force is
> measured so does this mean that self inductance doesn't occur in these
> situations? Does an electron accelerated in a particle accelerator feel
> any self inductance or normal inertia only?
>
> If it is possible to establish a magnetic field without penalty however
> then it is possible to spin up a charged disk and because there was no
> energy invested in producing the magnetic field any energy tapped by say
> a coil (said coil being open circuit as it was spun up) as the disk is
> stopped would seemingly be free??????
>
> I don't even want to get into the pinch effect.
>
> ***Faraday!!***
>
> As for the Faraday motor, consider what would happen if you started
> running along a long wire against the electron drift, if you weren't
> moving, the moving electrons would be passing you at 1 m/s (I just
> searched and found Beaty arguing that indeed the speed is something
> around that fast) and the protons would of course be stationary, so if
> you start to run against the drift at say 1m/s then the electrons
> composing the current are now passing you at 2 m/s and the protons at 1
> m/s, still a difference of 1 m/s and no matter how fast you move that's
> all it will be, just as much as if you weren't moving at all.
> So at this point you can look at it as flux cutting, in which case
> moving against the drift faster and faster doesn't produce a higher EMF
> because you are also cutting the flux produced by the protons as well,
> or you can look at it as pancaking fields of electrons and protons but
> either way you aren't going to get a higher voltage by speeding up.
>
> So what if we now built a Faraday motor out of copper only, no iron or
> permanent magnets.
> So take an electromagnet (big loop DC, copper only), it will be
> stationary, imagine your looking at it's N pole now with electron drift
> in a cw direction, take a copper disk on an axle (or pool of mercury)
> place it inside the hoop coil and apply a negative DC source to the
> center taking the current off at the edges with brushes, the disk will
> rotate in a ccw direction but there will be no back EMF, if you instead
> tried to use it in generator mode it simply would not work rotated in a
> ccw direction no voltage would be generated because the voltage induced
> in the disk would be equal and opposite to the voltage induced in the
> brushes and external circuit because the rotation has made no change!
>
> Here is another thought, if moving faster doesn't increase the force
> what if we put a very high resistance thin wire and a big fat wire (or a
> multicore) of equal lengths, wound them together connecting them in
> series so that when a current is passed through they cancel creating no
> detectable B field.
> However while the same number of charges will be passing through any
> point of this strange coil the electron drift in one should be much
> faster but there should be fewer moving charges, they should see the
> magnetic field produced by the electromagnet in that Faraday motor
> differently! (lets say the fat part has 10,000 electrons moving at 1 m/s
> per mm of wire, the thin part having 1,000 electrons moving at 10,000
> m/s per mm of wire, as the higher speed doesn't lead to increased EMF
> from cutting of the lines all that really matters is that there are 10
> times more electron moving in the fat part creating x10 stronger force.
> (assuming that the coil (in this case the one we used for the Faraday
> motor) has the same electron drift speed as the fat part)
>
>
> So while this coil wouldn't create a magnetic field it would react to
> one, though at this moment I'm not sure the other coil would be
> effected!!!!! (unidirectional motion????????)
>
> Could it be that iron and permanent magnets have been screwing up up all
> this time?
>
> I'd love replies to this but please I haven't used any equations and
> would generally rather not get a reply in equation form or at least not
> the bulk of it.
> (unless it is well explained) ------=_Part_109594_9276911.1153904248475-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 26 04:28:17 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6QBRhq5015599; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 04:27:44 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6QBRfb5015551; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 04:27:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 04:27:39 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <031c01c6b0a6$7bd11ec0$3800a8c0 zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 13:27:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6QBRYoQ015483 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69853 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Just a test - subject keeps getting eaten Status: O X-Status: No John you don't have to put the [Vo]: in. John and all people who got their subjects eaten, can you check if there was a coma in your subject? I tend to think some (but not all) subjects containing comas are eaten, but this hypothesis is only based on the few subjects I knew because the same messages were also posted to another list I am subscribed, like Steve Krivit's New Energy Times announcements. Maybe it would help our host sort this out if the victims of the "subject eater" posted their original subjects (which they'll find in their Sent box) Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Berry" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 8:32 AM Subject: [Vo]: Just a test - subject keeps getting eaten > This is a test to see if the subject will stay if I put the [Vo]: part in > front as the last time I posted to vortex there was no identification in the > subject. (In other words I haven't posted in years) > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 26 05:02:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6QC1ham005513; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 05:01:43 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6QC1eqT005490; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 05:01:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 05:01:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=BZfhi+pDf758pPIBe/zq1TecWo1vY5Iz6sOGQidtpES1F7mfJmKqAwUtPIOWcQXhdvFQDwjgVqCXuA2mxx8aIvC9L7ZHX/SP3GqEM89slskGJ3GqrzQoOctY71rsBlLorwYPWN9eRNd0bZE/QhZ1oICFDPZWPnBLMsmx5n234+c= Message-ID: Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 08:01:37 -0400 From: "John Berry" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Just a test - subject keeps getting eaten In-Reply-To: <031c01c6b0a6$7bd11ec0$3800a8c0 zothan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_111874_19036320.1153915297470" References: <031c01c6b0a6$7bd11ec0$3800a8c0 zothan> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69854 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_Part_111874_19036320.1153915297470 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The subject to the first post was 'Bifilar coil attracting a charge and Faradaty motor no lenz' no comma in it, maybe it's length? On 7/26/06, Michel Jullian wrote: > > No John you don't have to put the [Vo]: in. > > John and all people who got their subjects eaten, can you check if there > was a coma in your subject? I tend to think some (but not all) subjects > containing comas are eaten, but this hypothesis is only based on the few > subjects I knew because the same messages were also posted to another list I > am subscribed, like Steve Krivit's New Energy Times announcements. > > Maybe it would help our host sort this out if the victims of the "subject > eater" posted their original subjects (which they'll find in their Sent box) > > Michel > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Berry" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 8:32 AM > Subject: [Vo]: Just a test - subject keeps getting eaten > > > > This is a test to see if the subject will stay if I put the [Vo]: part > in > > front as the last time I posted to vortex there was no identification in > the > > subject. (In other words I haven't posted in years) > > > > ------=_Part_111874_19036320.1153915297470 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The subject to the first post was 'Bifilar coil attracting a charge and Faradaty motor no lenz' no comma in it, maybe it's length?

On 7/26/06, Michel Jullian <mj@exbang.com> wrote:
No John you don't have to put the [Vo]: in.

John and all people who got their subjects eaten, can you check if there was a coma in your subject? I tend to think some (but not all) subjects containing comas are eaten, but this hypothesis is only based on the few subjects I knew because the same messages were also posted to another list I am subscribed, like Steve Krivit's New Energy Times announcements.

Maybe it would help our host sort this out if the victims of the "subject eater" posted their original subjects (which they'll find in their Sent box)

Michel


----- Original Message -----
From: "John Berry" <aether22@gmail.com>
To: <vortex-L@eskimo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 8:32 AM
Subject: [Vo]: Just a test - subject keeps getting eaten


> This is a test to see if the subject will stay if I put the [Vo]:  part in
> front as the last time I posted to vortex there was no identification in the
> subject. (In other words I haven't posted in years)
>


------=_Part_111874_19036320.1153915297470-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 26 06:33:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6QDXUE0001748; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 06:33:30 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6QDXRZb001706; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 06:33:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 06:33:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <033e01c6b0b0$0b3875a0$3800a8c0 zothan> From: "Michel Jullian" To: References: <031c01c6b0a6$7bd11ec0$3800a8c0@zothan> Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 14:35:56 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6QDXHgu001564 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69855 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Just a test - subject keeps getting eaten Status: O X-Status: Oops yes two m's in comma sorry. John that post's subject came out ok except it was Faraday not Faradaty, what were those of today's posts? (copy-paste please) Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Berry" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 2:01 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Just a test - subject keeps getting eaten > The subject to the first post was 'Bifilar coil attracting a charge and > Faradaty motor no lenz' no comma in it, maybe it's length? > > On 7/26/06, Michel Jullian wrote: >> >> No John you don't have to put the [Vo]: in. >> >> John and all people who got their subjects eaten, can you check if there >> was a coma in your subject? I tend to think some (but not all) subjects >> containing comas are eaten, but this hypothesis is only based on the few >> subjects I knew because the same messages were also posted to another list I >> am subscribed, like Steve Krivit's New Energy Times announcements. >> >> Maybe it would help our host sort this out if the victims of the "subject >> eater" posted their original subjects (which they'll find in their Sent box) >> >> Michel >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "John Berry" >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 8:32 AM >> Subject: [Vo]: Just a test - subject keeps getting eaten >> >> >> > This is a test to see if the subject will stay if I put the [Vo]: part >> in >> > front as the last time I posted to vortex there was no identification in >> the >> > subject. (In other words I haven't posted in years) >> > >> >> > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 26 06:51:46 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6QDpKXL014783; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 06:51:21 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6QDpIHb014741; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 06:51:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 06:51:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-CVTV-Spamfilter: Scanned X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Virus-Scanned: by McAfee Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <001c01c6b0ba$89be17e0$0e027841 xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: [VO]:RE: Just a test..subject keeps.. Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 08:51:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01C6B090.9FD678D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69856 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C6B090.9FD678D0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0019_01C6B090.9FD678D0" ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C6B090.9FD678D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankHowdy John Berry, Interesting thought regarding parallel lines of force. You may expand on = the thought and receive more input form others in the group.=20 Regarding "missing" e-mail posts and messages, we have been experiencing = power outages in key locations in the US like St.Louis. The internet is = subject to power outages just like my lightbulbs at home. During the past few months there has been some internet "magic" taking = place. I will leave it up to others to speculate and/or identify this = magic, be it key location power outage, mid-east rowdy boys playing = games or big uncle protecting us from ourselves. Go figure. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C6B090.9FD678D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Howdy John Berry,
 
Interesting thought regarding parallel lines of force. You may = expand on=20 the thought and receive more input form others in the group.
 
Regarding "missing" e-mail posts and messages, we have been = experiencing=20 power outages in key locations in the US like St.Louis. The internet is = subject=20 to power outages just like my lightbulbs at home.
 
During the past few months there has been some internet "magic" = taking=20 place. I will leave it up to others to speculate and/or identify this = magic, be=20 it key location power outage, mid-east rowdy boys playing games or big = uncle=20 protecting us from ourselves.
Go figure.
 
Richard

 

------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C6B090.9FD678D0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C6B090.9FD678D0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <001701c6b0ba$889a3150$0e027841 xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C6B090.9FD678D0-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 26 07:09:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6QE8nM5028300; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 07:08:50 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6QE8k1P028243; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 07:08:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 07:08:45 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=omR1K0tijYIo714EOqEu/+R5zMxIo7ORjiTDdtfB55++dslI5UFHxXKDYdZPmpNV3Zm4wyrbiGwia5uQdRDkf3nR497kuog1XoQ4oWYhien12dGHjddz+hdUe8Hi+uIzT4G5AG4w0NfryTLBHgiMTqXsPqfloQP8JTGkHO+oP0M= Message-ID: Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:08:42 -0400 From: "John Berry" To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_114784_23414671.1153922922675" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69857 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Status: O X-Status: ------=_Part_114784_23414671.1153922922675 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 7/26/06, RC Macaulay wrote: > > Howdy John Berry, > > Interesting thought regarding parallel lines of force. You may expand on > the thought and receive more input form others in the group. > Not sure if Horace Heffner is still on Vort, I decided to email him and rewrote it, anyone not clear on what I was talking about or disagreed, might find this clearer and more conclusive: (though I don't go into the exciting inescapible conclusions) Hello Horace, I think you might have left the vortex list, so I'm sending this to you privately because I'd like your answer, I remember you were very knowledgeable of electrodynamics. The thought goes like this and I promise it leads to something very interesting. Take a long straight wire (or if you like a very large loop) and put a DC current through it. The electrons drift in one direction at say 1 meter a second (the speed isn't really important but Bill Beaty made some good arguments that it's about that speed). So if you ignore all other charges in the universe and wire and consider only the moving charges and and an equal number of stationary protons making the wire. So as the electrons drift past, the magnetic field they create moves with them creating the motional E-field of Hooper and which the Faraday motor uses to generate a voltage. If you now start to run against the direction of the electron drift so your running toward the negative battery terminal at 1 meter a second now the electrons are passing you at 2 meters a second and the electromotive force you feel from them (mutually perpendicular to both your motion and the B-field achieved by 'cutting the flux lines' ;) has doubled, however the protons in the wire are also moving from your point of view at 1 meter a second in the same direction as the electrons creating a reverse EMF cancelling the other out so only the difference of 1 meter a second exists. No matter how fast you move (in the direction against the electron drift) you will never see the radial DC motional e-field get any stronger because the protons will take away any gains. Do you accept this as true? If you believe that the induced EMF gets stronger the faster you move then you must hold that the protons don't create a 'magnetic field' that partially cancels out and induces the opposite EMF which would require that you believe that either: The protons don't create a magnetic field because they aren't moving relative to some local frame, or in other words they aren't moving through the aether but that that aether or reference frame only applies to the establishment of the magnetic field and not the electromotive force felt by moving through the B-field. (although this idea would mean that any EMF applied to a stationary charge which does not move as a result of the EMF would be a unidirectional force not reflected back on the wire/magnet because the stationary charge wouldn't have a magnetic field as it's not moving) Or I suppose you could possibly hold that the 2 magnetic fields somehow interact (rather than superimposing vectors) they fight it out the stronger wins and is considered 'real' and hence the only one allowed to induce an EMF. (even though in other reference frames the other one is 'real') I'm not sure if you noticed but neither of those alternatives seem awfully likely. (and that's coming from someone that you might guess believes in an aether) So I will explain various results of this (they are worth it trust me) after you please tell me if your convinced and if not how you see the EMF increasing as velocity parallel to the wire increases. I wish to run an experiment to verify this and could use some help with calculating the amps/turns and drift velocities if you are willing. Thanks, John Berry Regarding "missing" e-mail posts and messages, we have been experiencing > power outages in key locations in the US like St.Louis. The internet is > subject to power outages just like my lightbulbs at home. > > During the past few months there has been some internet "magic" taking > place. I will leave it up to others to speculate and/or identify this magic, > be it key location power outage, mid-east rowdy boys playing games or big > uncle protecting us from ourselves. > Go figure. > > Richard > > > ------=_Part_114784_23414671.1153922922675 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 7/26/06, RC Macaulay <walhalla@cvtv.net> wrote:
Howdy John Berry,
 
Interesting thought regarding parallel lines of force. You may expand on the thought and receive more input form others in the group.

Not sure if Horace Heffner is still on Vort, I decided to email him and rewrote it, anyone not clear on what I was talking about or disagreed, might find this clearer and more conclusive: (though I don't go into the exciting inescapible conclusions)

Hello Horace,

I think you might have left the vortex list, so I'm sending this to you privately because I'd like your answer, I remember you were very knowledgeable of electrodynamics.

The thought goes like this and I promise it leads to something very interesting.

Take a long straight wire (or if you like a very large loop) and put a DC current through it.
The electrons drift in one direction at say 1 meter a second (the speed isn't really important but Bill Beaty made some good arguments that it's about that speed).
So if you ignore all other charges in the universe and wire and consider only the moving charges and and an equal number of stationary protons making the wire.
So as the electrons drift past, the magnetic field they create moves with them creating the motional E-field of Hooper and which the Faraday motor uses to generate a voltage.

If you now start to run against the direction of the electron drift so your running toward the negative battery terminal at 1 meter a second now the electrons are passing you at 2 meters a second and the electromotive force you feel from them (mutually perpendicular to both your motion and the B-field achieved by 'cutting the flux lines' ;) has doubled, however the protons in the wire are also moving from your point of view at 1 meter a second in the same direction as the electrons creating a reverse EMF cancelling the other out so only the difference of 1 meter a second exists.

No matter how fast you move (in the direction against the electron drift) you will never see the radial DC motional e-field get any stronger because the protons will take away any gains.

Do you accept this as true?

If you believe that the induced EMF gets stronger the faster you move then you must hold that the protons don't create a 'magnetic field' that partially cancels out and induces the opposite EMF which would require that you believe that either:

The protons don't create a magnetic field because they aren't moving relative to some local frame, or in other words they aren't moving through the aether but that that aether or reference frame only applies to the establishment of the magnetic field and not the electromotive force felt by moving through the B-field. (although this idea would mean that any EMF applied to a stationary charge which does not move as a result of the EMF would be a unidirectional force not reflected back on the wire/magnet because the stationary charge wouldn't have a magnetic field as it's not moving)

Or I suppose you could possibly hold that the 2 magnetic fields somehow interact (rather than superimposing vectors) they fight it out the stronger wins and is considered 'real' and hence the only one allowed to induce an EMF. (even though in other reference frames the other one is 'real')

I'm not sure if you noticed but neither of those alternatives seem awfully likely. (and that's coming from someone that you might guess believes in an aether)

So I will explain various results of this (they are worth it trust me) after you please tell me if your convinced and if not how you see the EMF increasing as velocity parallel to the wire increases.

I wish to run an experiment to verify this and could use some help with calculating the amps/turns and drift velocities if you are willing.


Thanks,
John Berry
 

Regarding "missing" e-mail posts and messages, we have been experiencing power outages in key locations in the US like St.Louis. The internet is subject to power outages just like my lightbulbs at home.
 
During the past few months there has been some internet "magic" taking place. I will leave it up to others to speculate and/or identify this magic, be it key location power outage, mid-east rowdy boys playing games or big uncle protecting us from ourselves.
Go figure.
 
Richard

 


------=_Part_114784_23414671.1153922922675-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 26 07:40:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6QEeCWY019771; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 07:40:22 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6QEYMFB015205; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 07:34:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 07:34:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=J9lImxM1g4ROrRn6J9rfWZ5VZ5JGpLO/fMPCzzKP0eVKYlpe0+lkuzVXHfPBQNLmglmL8aKnDkb+H/upBjTkkT6Fx+Rj0RO3JusVLbtoC1X7g2SFkRUXzgz3c8rD7Ci/6n/Ztg/0Letm/lngcFhIJ7v8mxWamWdSwgujVK5TzFI= Message-ID: Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:34:18 -0400 From: "John Berry" To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_115264_4652473.1153924458878" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69858 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Status: O X-Status: ------=_Part_115264_4652473.1153924458878 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The subject was eaten so I shortened it and am resending.(all the same chars are present) On 7/26/06, RC Macaulay wrote: > > Howdy John Berry, > > Interesting thought regarding parallel lines of force. You may expand on > the thought and receive more input form others in the group. > Not sure if Horace Heffner is still on Vort, I decided to email him and rewrote it, anyone not clear on what I was talking about or disagreed, might find this clearer and more conclusive: (though I don't go into the exciting inescapible conclusions) Hello Horace, I think you might have left the vortex list, so I'm sending this to you privately because I'd like your answer, I remember you were very knowledgeable of electrodynamics. The thought goes like this and I promise it leads to something very interesting. Take a long straight wire (or if you like a very large loop) and put a DC current through it. The electrons drift in one direction at say 1 meter a second (the speed isn't really important but Bill Beaty made some good arguments that it's about that speed). So if you ignore all other charges in the universe and wire and consider only the moving charges and and an equal number of stationary protons making the wire. So as the electrons drift past, the magnetic field they create moves with them creating the motional E-field of Hooper and which the Faraday motor uses to generate a voltage. If you now start to run against the direction of the electron drift so your running toward the negative battery terminal at 1 meter a second now the electrons are passing you at 2 meters a second and the electromotive force you feel from them (mutually perpendicular to both your motion and the B-field achieved by 'cutting the flux lines' ;) has doubled, however the protons in the wire are also moving from your point of view at 1 meter a second in the same direction as the electrons creating a reverse EMF cancelling the other out so only the difference of 1 meter a second exists. No matter how fast you move (in the direction against the electron drift) you will never see the radial DC motional e-field get any stronger because the protons will take away any gains. Do you accept this as true? If you believe that the induced EMF gets stronger the faster you move then you must hold that the protons don't create a 'magnetic field' that partially cancels out and induces the opposite EMF which would require that you believe that either: The protons don't create a magnetic field because they aren't moving relative to some local frame, or in other words they aren't moving through the aether but that that aether or reference frame only applies to the establishment of the magnetic field and not the electromotive force felt by moving through the B-field. (although this idea would mean that any EMF applied to a stationary charge which does not move as a result of the EMF would be a unidirectional force not reflected back on the wire/magnet because the stationary charge wouldn't have a magnetic field as it's not moving) Or I suppose you could possibly hold that the 2 magnetic fields somehow interact (rather than superimposing vectors) they fight it out the stronger wins and is considered 'real' and hence the only one allowed to induce an EMF. (even though in other reference frames the other one is 'real') I'm not sure if you noticed but neither of those alternatives seem awfully likely. (and that's coming from someone that you might guess believes in an aether) So I will explain various results of this (they are worth it trust me) after you please tell me if your convinced and if not how you see the EMF increasing as velocity parallel to the wire increases. I wish to run an experiment to verify this and could use some help with calculating the amps/turns and drift velocities if you are willing. Thanks, John Berry Regarding "missing" e-mail posts and messages, we have been experiencing > power outages in key locations in the US like St.Louis. The internet is > subject to power outages just like my lightbulbs at home. > > During the past few months there has been some internet "magic" taking > place. I will leave it up to others to speculate and/or identify this magic, > be it key location power outage, mid-east rowdy boys playing games or big > uncle protecting us from ourselves. > Go figure. > > Richard > > > On 7/26/06, John Berry wrote: > > On 7/26/06, RC Macaulay wrote: > > > > Howdy John Berry, > > > > Interesting thought regarding parallel lines of force. You may expand on > > the thought and receive more input form others in the group. > > > > Not sure if Horace Heffner is still on Vort, I decided to email him and > rewrote it, anyone not clear on what I was talking about or disagreed, might > find this clearer and more conclusive: (though I don't go into the exciting > inescapible conclusions) > > Hello Horace, > > I think you might have left the vortex list, so I'm sending this to you > privately because I'd like your answer, I remember you were very > knowledgeable of electrodynamics. > > The thought goes like this and I promise it leads to something very > interesting. > > Take a long straight wire (or if you like a very large loop) and put a DC > current through it. > The electrons drift in one direction at say 1 meter a second (the speed > isn't really important but Bill Beaty made some good arguments that it's > about that speed). > So if you ignore all other charges in the universe and wire and consider > only the moving charges and and an equal number of stationary protons making > the wire. > So as the electrons drift past, the magnetic field they create moves with > them creating the motional E-field of Hooper and which the Faraday motor > uses to generate a voltage. > > If you now start to run against the direction of the electron drift so > your running toward the negative battery terminal at 1 meter a second now > the electrons are passing you at 2 meters a second and the electromotive > force you feel from them (mutually perpendicular to both your motion and the > B-field achieved by 'cutting the flux lines' ;) has doubled, however the > protons in the wire are also moving from your point of view at 1 meter a > second in the same direction as the electrons creating a reverse EMF > cancelling the other out so only the difference of 1 meter a second exists. > > No matter how fast you move (in the direction against the electron drift) > you will never see the radial DC motional e-field get any stronger because > the protons will take away any gains. > > Do you accept this as true? > > If you believe that the induced EMF gets stronger the faster you move then > you must hold that the protons don't create a 'magnetic field' that > partially cancels out and induces the opposite EMF which would require that > you believe that either: > > The protons don't create a magnetic field because they aren't moving > relative to some local frame, or in other words they aren't moving through > the aether but that that aether or reference frame only applies to the > establishment of the magnetic field and not the electromotive force felt by > moving through the B-field. (although this idea would mean that any EMF > applied to a stationary charge which does not move as a result of the EMF > would be a unidirectional force not reflected back on the wire/magnet > because the stationary charge wouldn't have a magnetic field as it's not > moving) > > Or I suppose you could possibly hold that the 2 magnetic fields somehow > interact (rather than superimposing vectors) they fight it out the stronger > wins and is considered 'real' and hence the only one allowed to induce an > EMF. (even though in other reference frames the other one is 'real') > > I'm not sure if you noticed but neither of those alternatives seem awfully > likely. (and that's coming from someone that you might guess believes in an > aether) > > So I will explain various results of this (they are worth it trust me) > after you please tell me if your convinced and if not how you see the EMF > increasing as velocity parallel to the wire increases. > > I wish to run an experiment to verify this and could use some help with > calculating the amps/turns and drift velocities if you are willing. > > > Thanks, > John Berry > > > Regarding "missing" e-mail posts and messages, we have been experiencing > > power outages in key locations in the US like St.Louis. The internet is > > subject to power outages just like my lightbulbs at home. > > > > During the past few months there has been some internet "magic" taking > > place. I will leave it up to others to speculate and/or identify this magic, > > be it key location power outage, mid-east rowdy boys playing games or big > > uncle protecting us from ourselves. > > Go figure. > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > ------=_Part_115264_4652473.1153924458878 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The subject was eaten so I shortened it and am resending.(all the same chars are present)

On 7/26/06, RC Macaulay < walhalla cvtv.net> wrote:
Howdy John Berry,
 
Interesting thought regarding parallel lines of force. You may expand on the thought and receive more input form others in the group.

Not sure if Horace Heffner is still on Vort, I decided to email him and rewrote it, anyone not clear on what I was talking about or disagreed, might find this clearer and more conclusive: (though I don't go into the exciting inescapible conclusions)

Hello Horace,

I think you might have left the vortex list, so I'm sending this to you privately because I'd like your answer, I remember you were very knowledgeable of electrodynamics.

The thought goes like this and I promise it leads to something very interesting.

Take a long straight wire (or if you like a very large loop) and put a DC current through it.
The electrons drift in one direction at say 1 meter a second (the speed isn't really important but Bill Beaty made some good arguments that it's about that speed).
So if you ignore all other charges in the universe and wire and consider only the moving charges and and an equal number of stationary protons making the wire.
So as the electrons drift past, the magnetic field they create moves with them creating the motional E-field of Hooper and which the Faraday motor uses to generate a voltage.

If you now start to run against the direction of the electron drift so your running toward the negative battery terminal at 1 meter a second now the electrons are passing you at 2 meters a second and the electromotive force you feel from them (mutually perpendicular to both your motion and the B-field achieved by 'cutting the flux lines' ;) has doubled, however the protons in the wire are also moving from your point of view at 1 meter a second in the same direction as the electrons creating a reverse EMF cancelling the other out so only the difference of 1 meter a second exists.

No matter how fast you move (in the direction against the electron drift) you will never see the radial DC motional e-field get any stronger because the protons will take away any gains.

Do you accept this as true?

If you believe that the induced EMF gets stronger the faster you move then you must hold that the protons don't create a 'magnetic field' that partially cancels out and induces the opposite EMF which would require that you believe that either:

The protons don't create a magnetic field because they aren't moving relative to some local frame, or in other words they aren't moving through the aether but that that aether or reference frame only applies to the establishment of the magnetic field and not the electromotive force felt by moving through the B-field. (although this idea would mean that any EMF applied to a stationary charge which does not move as a result of the EMF would be a unidirectional force not reflected back on the wire/magnet because the stationary charge wouldn't have a magnetic field as it's not moving)

Or I suppose you could possibly hold that the 2 magnetic fields somehow interact (rather than superimposing vectors) they fight it out the stronger wins and is considered 'real' and hence the only one allowed to induce an EMF. (even though in other reference frames the other one is 'real')

I'm not sure if you noticed but neither of those alternatives seem awfully likely. (and that's coming from someone that you might guess believes in an aether)

So I will explain various results of this (they are worth it trust me) after you please tell me if your convinced and if not how you see the EMF increasing as velocity parallel to the wire increases.

I wish to run an experiment to verify this and could use some help with calculating the amps/turns and drift velocities if you are willing.


Thanks,
John Berry
 

Regarding "missing" e-mail posts and messages, we have been experiencing power outages in key locations in the US like St.Louis. The internet is subject to power outages just like my lightbulbs at home.
 
During the past few months there has been some internet "magic" taking place. I will leave it up to others to speculate and/or identify this magic, be it key location power outage, mid-east rowdy boys playing games or big uncle protecting us from ourselves.
Go figure.
 
Richard

 



On 7/26/06, John Berry <aether22@gmail.com> wrote:
On 7/26/06, RC Macaulay <walhalla@cvtv.net > wrote:
Howdy John Berry,
 
Interesting thought regarding parallel lines of force. You may expand on the thought and receive more input form others in the group.

Not sure if Horace Heffner is still on Vort, I decided to email him and rewrote it, anyone not clear on what I was talking about or disagreed, might find this clearer and more conclusive: (though I don't go into the exciting inescapible conclusions)

Hello Horace,

I think you might have left the vortex list, so I'm sending this to you privately because I'd like your answer, I remember you were very knowledgeable of electrodynamics.

The thought goes like this and I promise it leads to something very interesting.

Take a long straight wire (or if you like a very large loop) and put a DC current through it.
The electrons drift in one direction at say 1 meter a second (the speed isn't really important but Bill Beaty made some good arguments that it's about that speed).
So if you ignore all other charges in the universe and wire and consider only the moving charges and and an equal number of stationary protons making the wire.
So as the electrons drift past, the magnetic field they create moves with them creating the motional E-field of Hooper and which the Faraday motor uses to generate a voltage.

If you now start to run against the direction of the electron drift so your running toward the negative battery terminal at 1 meter a second now the electrons are passing you at 2 meters a second and the electromotive force you feel from them (mutually perpendicular to both your motion and the B-field achieved by 'cutting the flux lines' ;) has doubled, however the protons in the wire are also moving from your point of view at 1 meter a second in the same direction as the electrons creating a reverse EMF cancelling the other out so only the difference of 1 meter a second exists.

No matter how fast you move (in the direction against the electron drift) you will never see the radial DC motional e-field get any stronger because the protons will take away any gains.

Do you accept this as true?

If you believe that the induced EMF gets stronger the faster you move then you must hold that the protons don't create a 'magnetic field' that partially cancels out and induces the opposite EMF which would require that you believe that either:

The protons don't create a magnetic field because they aren't moving relative to some local frame, or in other words they aren't moving through the aether but that that aether or reference frame only applies to the establishment of the magnetic field and not the electromotive force felt by moving through the B-field. (although this idea would mean that any EMF applied to a stationary charge which does not move as a result of the EMF would be a unidirectional force not reflected back on the wire/magnet because the stationary charge wouldn't have a magnetic field as it's not moving)

Or I suppose you could possibly hold that the 2 magnetic fields somehow interact (rather than superimposing vectors) they fight it out the stronger wins and is considered 'real' and hence the only one allowed to induce an EMF. (even though in other reference frames the other one is 'real')

I'm not sure if you noticed but neither of those alternatives seem awfully likely. (and that's coming from someone that you might guess believes in an aether)

So I will explain various results of this (they are worth it trust me) after you please tell me if your convinced and if not how you see the EMF increasing as velocity parallel to the wire increases.

I wish to run an experiment to verify this and could use some help with calculating the amps/turns and drift velocities if you are willing.


Thanks,
John Berry
 

Regarding "missing" e-mail posts and messages, we have been experiencing power outages in key locations in the US like St.Louis. The internet is subject to power outages just like my lightbulbs at home.
 
During the past few months there has been some internet "magic" taking place. I will leave it up to others to speculate and/or identify this magic, be it key location power outage, mid-east rowdy boys playing games or big uncle protecting us from ourselves.
Go figure.
 
Richard

 



------=_Part_115264_4652473.1153924458878-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 26 15:38:50 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6QMc835007129; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 15:38:13 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6QMbhXU006808; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 15:37:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 15:37:40 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=fu3eE4+euyN3K5VL00C8Y9ytsC76Pezq5Ob04Mhxh6ugBAIBJBtPDpMVN+g4AdgdsYj6Ag/AkzJqkCTAX0pd80xd0aYOLn7mHL9d23KggGJVTs1YSWqsv8I80h4OoedRETLdUAFrkwP61Y6xepFWEjr22SsJKiueh8QQZK1tel0= Message-ID: Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:37:35 -0400 From: "john herman" To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_179503_6852042.1153953455401" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69860 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Status: O X-Status: ------=_Part_179503_6852042.1153953455401 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 7/26/06, John Berry wrote: > > -Resent (from different email address) because other one had problems.- > > As there haven't been any replies to my previous post (Bifilar coil > attracting a charge and Faraday motor no lenz), I'm left wondering why, > was it not understood? Was an obvious fault seen that didn't seem worthy > of reply? > Was it understood and no fault was found leaving people scratching their > head or was it simply not read? (Or am I impatient?) > > Does anyone disagree that if you travel parallel to a wire carrying a DC > current and your direction of movement is against the electron drift, > the EMF felt by charges (i.e your body) moving through that magnetic > field (mutually perpendicular to your motion and the B field, hence a > radial 'motional e-field' ala Hooper and is the same that induces a DC > voltage in a Faraday Generator) should not increase no matter what speed > you move along the wire because just as the EMF from the electrons does > increase, all but a constant portion is canceled by the EMF from the > unbalanced moving (in your reference frame) protons. > > If I may ask for an analysis of what should happen if the above > experiment were done. > As far as I can see however because the magnetic field is produced by > the protons and electrons (if this were not so rotating an electromagnet > on it's axis would greatly increase it's magnetic field) then the EMF > induced will always be the difference between the electrons and protons > which is always be the same regardless of the speed at which you move > parallel to the current. (unless you move with the electrons in which > case the EMF would decrease to zero at 50% of the electron drift > velocity as you would then have electrons and protons moving in opposite > directions, increasing till at the electron drift velocity you would see > the same strength EMF as standing still except the EMF polarity is > reversed) > > If this is the case then I'm pretty sure that the coil arrangement I > mentioned in the last post would work and either way it would mean a > Faraday motor with no lenz force would be possible. > > > (Gur bayl jnl V pna frr guvf abg jbexvat vf vs zbivat cnfg n punetr > qbrfa'g perngr n zntargvp svryq, ohg vg vf xabja gung ebgngvat n punetrq > qvfx qbrf perngr n zntargvp svryq, guvf jbhyq erdhver na nrgure, n > punetrf zbgvba guebhtu juvpu jbhyq unir vg cebqhpr n zntargvp svryq ohg > abg frr n punetr fgngvbanel gb gur nrgure nf cebqhpvat n zntargvp svryq) > > > > > I had some further ideas as writing this, the best stuff is found after: > > > ***Faraday!!*** > > > > Due to the 'motional e-field' or pancaking of the electric field of the > > electron drift in a wire a positive charge or charged object should be > > attracted and a negatively charged one repelled, the moving electrons > > also should see the stationary charges as moving for them their > > reference frame > > > > <==> coil > > <==> charged disk > > > > This would work even if the coil is canceling bifilar. > > But the magnitude of attraction would be rather small of course as it is > > the worst of both worlds as the number of unbalanced charges on the disk > > are far fewer than the number of conducting electrons in a wire and the > > drift velocity is very slow, so it would be of the same strength as if > > the disk was rotated at electron drift velocity which would be a very > > sad B field. > > > > But one question that comes to mind, would a charged disk feel a self > > inductance resistance to and acceleration or deceleration as a coil > > producing a similar field would find? If the answer is yes and assuming > > the answer would be yes for any charged object accelerating (could this > > be how Woodward works? could it be that the magnetic field from a > > charged cap accelerating creates self inductance? It would act as it it > > has gained inertial mass when charged) then why wouldn't all matter feel > > > this self induced resistance to acceleration/deceleration (sure from a > > distance charge balanced matter is neutral but on a microscopic atomic > > scale the moving charges would create an abundance of tiny magnetic > > fields), besides inertia (it would be cool if this was the cause of > > inertial mass of course but that would give electrons and protons the > > same inertial mass and neutrons would have none) no such force is > > measured so does this mean that self inductance doesn't occur in these > > situations? Does an electron accelerated in a particle accelerator feel > > any self inductance or normal inertia only? > > > > If it is possible to establish a magnetic field without penalty however > > then it is possible to spin up a charged disk and because there was no > > energy invested in producing the magnetic field any energy tapped by say > > > a coil (said coil being open circuit as it was spun up) as the disk is > > stopped would seemingly be free?????? > > > > I don't even want to get into the pinch effect. > > > > ***Faraday!!*** > > > > As for the Faraday motor, consider what would happen if you started > > running along a long wire against the electron drift, if you weren't > > moving, the moving electrons would be passing you at 1 m/s (I just > > searched and found Beaty arguing that indeed the speed is something > > around that fast) and the protons would of course be stationary, so if > > you start to run against the drift at say 1m/s then the electrons > > composing the current are now passing you at 2 m/s and the protons at 1 > > m/s, still a difference of 1 m/s and no matter how fast you move that's > > all it will be, just as much as if you weren't moving at all. > > So at this point you can look at it as flux cutting, in which case > > moving against the drift faster and faster doesn't produce a higher EMF > > because you are also cutting the flux produced by the protons as well, > > or you can look at it as pancaking fields of electrons and protons but > > either way you aren't going to get a higher voltage by speeding up. > > > > So what if we now built a Faraday motor out of copper only, no iron or > > permanent magnets. > > So take an electromagnet (big loop DC, copper only), it will be > > stationary, imagine your looking at it's N pole now with electron drift > > in a cw direction, take a copper disk on an axle (or pool of mercury) > > place it inside the hoop coil and apply a negative DC source to the > > center taking the current off at the edges with brushes, the disk will > > rotate in a ccw direction but there will be no back EMF, if you instead > > tried to use it in generator mode it simply would not work rotated in a > > ccw direction no voltage would be generated because the voltage induced > > in the disk would be equal and opposite to the voltage induced in the > > brushes and external circuit because the rotation has made no change! > > > > Here is another thought, if moving faster doesn't increase the force > > what if we put a very high resistance thin wire and a big fat wire (or a > > > multicore) of equal lengths, wound them together connecting them in > > series so that when a current is passed through they cancel creating no > > detectable B field. > > However while the same number of charges will be passing through any > > point of this strange coil the electron drift in one should be much > > faster but there should be fewer moving charges, they should see the > > magnetic field produced by the electromagnet in that Faraday motor > > differently! (lets say the fat part has 10,000 electrons moving at 1 m/s > > per mm of wire, the thin part having 1,000 electrons moving at 10,000 > > m/s per mm of wire, as the higher speed doesn't lead to increased EMF > > from cutting of the lines all that really matters is that there are 10 > > times more electron moving in the fat part creating x10 stronger force. > > (assuming that the coil (in this case the one we used for the Faraday > > motor) has the same electron drift speed as the fat part) > > > > > > So while this coil wouldn't create a magnetic field it would react to > > one, though at this moment I'm not sure the other coil would be > > effected!!!!! (unidirectional motion????????) > > > > Could it be that iron and permanent magnets have been screwing up up all > > this time? > > > > I'd love replies to this but please I haven't used any equations and > > would generally rather not get a reply in equation form or at least not > > the bulk of it. > > (unless it is well explained) > > ------=_Part_179503_6852042.1153953455401 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline

On 7/26/06, John Berry <aether22@gmail.com> wrote:
-Resent (from different email address) because other one had problems.-

As there haven't been any replies to my previous post (Bifilar coil
attracting a charge and Faraday motor no lenz), I'm left wondering why,
was it not understood? Was an obvious fault seen that didn't seem worthy
of reply?
Was it understood and no fault was found leaving people scratching their
head or was it simply not read? (Or am I impatient?)

Does anyone disagree that if you travel parallel to a wire carrying a DC
current and your direction of movement is against the electron drift,
the EMF felt by charges (i.e your body) moving through that magnetic
field (mutually perpendicular to your motion and the B field, hence a
radial 'motional e-field' ala Hooper and is the same that induces a DC
voltage in a Faraday Generator) should not increase no matter what speed
you move along the wire because just as the EMF from the electrons does
increase, all but a constant portion is canceled by the EMF from the
unbalanced moving (in your reference frame) protons.

If I may ask for an analysis of what should happen if the above
experiment were done.
As far as I can see however because the magnetic field is produced by
the protons and electrons (if this were not so rotating an electromagnet
on it's axis would greatly increase it's magnetic field) then the EMF
induced will always be the difference between the electrons and protons
which is always be the same regardless of the speed at which you move
parallel to the current. (unless you move with the electrons in which
case the EMF would decrease to zero at 50% of the electron drift
velocity as you would then have electrons and protons moving in opposite
directions, increasing till at the electron drift velocity you would see
the same strength EMF as standing still except the EMF polarity is reversed)

If this is the case then I'm pretty sure that the coil arrangement I
mentioned in the last post would work and either way it would mean a
Faraday motor with no lenz force would be possible.


(Gur bayl jnl V pna frr guvf abg jbexvat vf vs zbivat cnfg n punetr
qbrfa'g perngr n zntargvp svryq, ohg vg vf xabja gung ebgngvat n punetrq
qvfx qbrf perngr n zntargvp svryq, guvf jbhyq erdhver na nrgure, n
punetrf zbgvba guebhtu juvpu jbhyq unir vg cebqhpr n zntargvp svryq ohg
abg frr n punetr fgngvbanel gb gur nrgure nf cebqhpvat n zntargvp svryq)



> I had some further ideas as writing this, the best stuff is found after:
> ***Faraday!!***
>
> Due to the 'motional e-field' or pancaking of the electric field of the
> electron drift in a wire a positive charge or charged object should be
> attracted and a negatively charged one repelled, the moving electrons
> also should see the stationary charges as moving for them their
> reference frame
>
> <==> coil
> <==> charged disk
>
> This would work even if the coil is canceling bifilar.
> But the magnitude of attraction would be rather small of course as it is
> the worst of both worlds as the number of unbalanced charges on the disk
> are far fewer than the number of conducting electrons in a wire and the
> drift velocity is very slow, so it would be of the same strength as if
> the disk was rotated at electron drift velocity which would be a very
> sad B field.
>
> But one question that comes to mind, would a charged disk feel a self
> inductance resistance to and acceleration or deceleration as a coil
> producing a similar field would find? If the answer is yes and assuming
> the answer would be yes for any charged object accelerating (could this
> be how Woodward works? could it be that the magnetic field from a
> charged cap accelerating creates self inductance? It would act as it it
> has gained inertial mass when charged) then why wouldn't all matter feel
> this self induced resistance to acceleration/deceleration (sure from a
> distance charge balanced matter is neutral but on a microscopic atomic
> scale the moving charges would create an abundance of tiny magnetic
> fields), besides inertia (it would be cool if this was the cause of
> inertial mass of course but that would give electrons and protons the
> same inertial mass and neutrons would have none) no such force is
> measured so does this mean that self inductance doesn't occur in these
> situations? Does an electron accelerated in a particle accelerator feel
> any self inductance or normal inertia only?
>
> If it is possible to establish a magnetic field without penalty however
> then it is possible to spin up a charged disk and because there was no
> energy invested in producing the magnetic field any energy tapped by say
> a coil (said coil being open circuit as it was spun up) as the disk is
> stopped would seemingly be free??????
>
> I don't even want to get into the pinch effect.
>
> ***Faraday!!***
>
> As for the Faraday motor, consider what would happen if you started
> running along a long wire against the electron drift, if you weren't
> moving, the moving electrons would be passing you at 1 m/s (I just
> searched and found Beaty arguing that indeed the speed is something
> around that fast) and the protons would of course be stationary, so if
> you start to run against the drift at say 1m/s then the electrons
> composing the current are now passing you at 2 m/s and the protons at 1
> m/s, still a difference of 1 m/s and no matter how fast you move that's
> all it will be, just as much as if you weren't moving at all.
> So at this point you can look at it as flux cutting, in which case
> moving against the drift faster and faster doesn't produce a higher EMF
> because you are also cutting the flux produced by the protons as well,
> or you can look at it as pancaking fields of electrons and protons but
> either way you aren't going to get a higher voltage by speeding up.
>
> So what if we now built a Faraday motor out of copper only, no iron or
> permanent magnets.
> So take an electromagnet (big loop DC, copper only), it will be
> stationary, imagine your looking at it's N pole now with electron drift
> in a cw direction, take a copper disk on an axle (or pool of mercury)
> place it inside the hoop coil and apply a negative DC source to the
> center taking the current off at the edges with brushes, the disk will
> rotate in a ccw direction but there will be no back EMF, if you instead
> tried to use it in generator mode it simply would not work rotated in a
> ccw direction no voltage would be generated because the voltage induced
> in the disk would be equal and opposite to the voltage induced in the
> brushes and external circuit because the rotation has made no change!
>
> Here is another thought, if moving faster doesn't increase the force
> what if we put a very high resistance thin wire and a big fat wire (or a
> multicore) of equal lengths, wound them together connecting them in
> series so that when a current is passed through they cancel creating no
> detectable B field.
> However while the same number of charges will be passing through any
> point of this strange coil the electron drift in one should be much
> faster but there should be fewer moving charges, they should see the
> magnetic field produced by the electromagnet in that Faraday motor
> differently! (lets say the fat part has 10,000 electrons moving at 1 m/s
> per mm of wire, the thin part having 1,000 electrons moving at 10,000
> m/s per mm of wire, as the higher speed doesn't lead to increased EMF
> from cutting of the lines all that really matters is that there are 10
> times more electron moving in the fat part creating x10 stronger force.
> (assuming that the coil (in this case the one we used for the Faraday
> motor) has the same electron drift speed as the fat part)
>
>
> So while this coil wouldn't create a magnetic field it would react to
> one, though at this moment I'm not sure the other coil would be
> effected!!!!! (unidirectional motion????????)
>
> Could it be that iron and permanent magnets have been screwing up up all
> this time?
>
> I'd love replies to this but please I haven't used any equations and
> would generally rather not get a reply in equation form or at least not
> the bulk of it.
> (unless it is well explained)
 

------=_Part_179503_6852042.1153953455401-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 26 15:57:01 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6QMes4v009288; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 15:42:56 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6QMOHXM000387; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 15:24:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 15:24:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=WV65V8605rJa9Bk6KtFRWOYE5aT3eeqp0dHJj3C59TIWqDJGNpCKYRia5DL2By/2Yq+yQXNBMJrIyYZJC/nrOxLSvZBRdPAwR0VXl1/lLBvhtiH7WCVOQYU1STeoAa3FMuYr1I+L9NcogsIILF9nZF0T/jHJrQgM+SbNzhjQE5M= Message-ID: Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:18:03 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Tesla Unveiled In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060720131317.03f7ce38 mindspring.com> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69859 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: The first Tesla: http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=article&storyid=1062 Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 26 16:10:41 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6QNADbI031827; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 16:10:22 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6QN2Jor026404; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 16:02:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 16:02:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=Y54UQpuR6Bf61Y+MjdVo6qOjjfptDnaNLyg68EZWfJWtziBtj9SORUtViCY4I4yN+uj/E+nJBiR/3oCR4kE3bpHPyU8vhJQhrrzanoWdz5VCBOotSHcOTcETvk6xen9aixjELGex5Zs4BYimBdZWXWOY5D4nOSJ6QNzhYCsfAeQ= Message-ID: Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 19:02:16 -0400 From: "john herman" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_180019_17420398.1153954936433" References: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69861 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ------=_Part_180019_17420398.1153954936433 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 7/26/06, John Berry wrote: > > On 7/26/06, RC Macaulay wrote: > > > > Howdy John Berry, > > > > Interesting thought regarding parallel lines of force. You may expand on > > the thought and receive more input form others in the group. > > > > Not sure if Horace Heffner is still on Vort, I decided to email him and > rewrote it, anyone not clear on what I was talking about or disagreed, might > find this clearer and more conclusive: (though I don't go into the exciting > inescapible conclusions) > > Hello Horace, > > I think you might have left the vortex list, so I'm sending this to you > privately because I'd like your answer, I remember you were very > knowledgeable of electrodynamics. > > The thought goes like this and I promise it leads to something very > interesting. > > Take a long straight wire (or if you like a very large loop) and put a DC > current through it. > The electrons drift in one direction at say 1 meter a second (the speed > isn't really important but Bill Beaty made some good arguments that it's > about that speed). > So if you ignore all other charges in the universe and wire and consider > only the moving charges and and an equal number of stationary protons making > the wire. > So as the electrons drift past, the magnetic field they create moves with > them creating the motional E-field of Hooper and which the Faraday motor > uses to generate a voltage. > > If you now start to run against the direction of the electron drift so > your running toward the negative battery terminal at 1 meter a second now > the electrons are passing you at 2 meters a second and the electromotive > force you feel from them (mutually perpendicular to both your motion and the > B-field achieved by 'cutting the flux lines' ;) has doubled, however the > protons in the wire are also moving from your point of view at 1 meter a > second in the same direction as the electrons creating a reverse EMF > cancelling the other out so only the difference of 1 meter a second exists. > > No matter how fast you move (in the direction against the electron drift) > you will never see the radial DC motional e-field get any stronger because > the protons will take away any gains. > > Do you accept this as true? > > If you believe that the induced EMF gets stronger the faster you move then > you must hold that the protons don't create a 'magnetic field' that > partially cancels out and induces the opposite EMF which would require that > you believe that either: > > The protons don't create a magnetic field because they aren't moving > relative to some local frame, or in other words they aren't moving through > the aether but that that aether or reference frame only applies to the > establishment of the magnetic field and not the electromotive force felt by > moving through the B-field. (although this idea would mean that any EMF > applied to a stationary charge which does not move as a result of the EMF > would be a unidirectional force not reflected back on the wire/magnet > because the stationary charge wouldn't have a magnetic field as it's not > moving) > > Or I suppose you could possibly hold that the 2 magnetic fields somehow > interact (rather than superimposing vectors) they fight it out the stronger > wins and is considered 'real' and hence the only one allowed to induce an > EMF. (even though in other reference frames the other one is 'real') > > I'm not sure if you noticed but neither of those alternatives seem awfully > likely. (and that's coming from someone that you might guess believes in an > aether) > > So I will explain various results of this (they are worth it trust me) > after you please tell me if your convinced and if not how you see the EMF > increasing as velocity parallel to the wire increases. > > I wish to run an experiment to verify this and could use some help with > calculating the amps/turns and drift velocities if you are willing. > > > Thanks, > > John Berry > > > Regarding "missing" e-mail posts and messages, we have been experiencing > > power outages in key locations in the US like St.Louis. The internet is > > subject to power outages just like my lightbulbs at home. > > > > During the past few months there has been some internet "magic" taking > > place. I will leave it up to others to speculate and/or identify this magic, > > be it key location power outage, mid-east rowdy boys playing games or big > > uncle protecting us from ourselves. > > Go figure. > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > ------=_Part_180019_17420398.1153954936433 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline

On 7/26/06, John Berry <aether22@gmail.com> wrote:
On 7/26/06, RC Macaulay <walhalla@cvtv.net > wrote:
Howdy John Berry,
 
Interesting thought regarding parallel lines of force. You may expand on the thought and receive more input form others in the group.

Not sure if Horace Heffner is still on Vort, I decided to email him and rewrote it, anyone not clear on what I was talking about or disagreed, might find this clearer and more conclusive: (though I don't go into the exciting inescapible conclusions)

Hello Horace,

I think you might have left the vortex list, so I'm sending this to you privately because I'd like your answer, I remember you were very knowledgeable of electrodynamics.

The thought goes like this and I promise it leads to something very interesting.

Take a long straight wire (or if you like a very large loop) and put a DC current through it.
The electrons drift in one direction at say 1 meter a second (the speed isn't really important but Bill Beaty made some good arguments that it's about that speed).
So if you ignore all other charges in the universe and wire and consider only the moving charges and and an equal number of stationary protons making the wire.
So as the electrons drift past, the magnetic field they create moves with them creating the motional E-field of Hooper and which the Faraday motor uses to generate a voltage.

If you now start to run against the direction of the electron drift so your running toward the negative battery terminal at 1 meter a second now the electrons are passing you at 2 meters a second and the electromotive force you feel from them (mutually perpendicular to both your motion and the B-field achieved by 'cutting the flux lines' ;) has doubled, however the protons in the wire are also moving from your point of view at 1 meter a second in the same direction as the electrons creating a reverse EMF cancelling the other out so only the difference of 1 meter a second exists.

No matter how fast you move (in the direction against the electron drift) you will never see the radial DC motional e-field get any stronger because the protons will take away any gains.

Do you accept this as true?

If you believe that the induced EMF gets stronger the faster you move then you must hold that the protons don't create a 'magnetic field' that partially cancels out and induces the opposite EMF which would require that you believe that either:

The protons don't create a magnetic field because they aren't moving relative to some local frame, or in other words they aren't moving through the aether but that that aether or reference frame only applies to the establishment of the magnetic field and not the electromotive force felt by moving through the B-field. (although this idea would mean that any EMF applied to a stationary charge which does not move as a result of the EMF would be a unidirectional force not reflected back on the wire/magnet because the stationary charge wouldn't have a magnetic field as it's not moving)

Or I suppose you could possibly hold that the 2 magnetic fields somehow interact (rather than superimposing vectors) they fight it out the stronger wins and is considered 'real' and hence the only one allowed to induce an EMF. (even though in other reference frames the other one is 'real')

I'm not sure if you noticed but neither of those alternatives seem awfully likely. (and that's coming from someone that you might guess believes in an aether)

So I will explain various results of this (they are worth it trust me) after you please tell me if your convinced and if not how you see the EMF increasing as velocity parallel to the wire increases.

I wish to run an experiment to verify this and could use some help with calculating the amps/turns and drift velocities if you are willing.


Thanks,
 
John Berry
 

Regarding "missing" e-mail posts and messages, we have been experiencing power outages in key locations in the US like St.Louis. The internet is subject to power outages just like my lightbulbs at home.
 
During the past few months there has been some internet "magic" taking place. I will leave it up to others to speculate and/or identify this magic, be it key location power outage, mid-east rowdy boys playing games or big uncle protecting us from ourselves.
Go figure.
 
Richard

 


 

------=_Part_180019_17420398.1153954936433-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 26 16:15:50 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6QNF9GL003293; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 16:15:14 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6QNF8Xl003265; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 16:15:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 16:15:08 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=eII/qFqURf49JXKbI8hpEcL69VlhEZ9+p2sOGLeFGgbxQlCKy29/YszbMAiwjV4YbkQHWV44/WdfQWF7OcyLU6AXNu6JF9W1zkwe+hbfeaajAMDnm/cZcIjaIKd2Mel3S0cQnMOYGSWBb9STHQLb+l15icbVWf0EoFnsgXez2rM= Message-ID: Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 16:15:07 -0700 From: "leaking pen" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Tesla Unveiled In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060720131317.03f7ce38 mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_120962_9858689.1153955707169" References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060720131317.03f7ce38 mindspring.com> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69862 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ------=_Part_120962_9858689.1153955707169 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline generally not, no. most bearings are closed lube system now. On 7/20/06, Jed Rothwell wrote: > > Quoting the Tesla Motors FAQ: > > >The Tesla Roadster has no motor oil or oil > >filters to change, no smog equipment to check, no air filters to > >replace, no power steering fluids to refill. > > It does not have power steering? > > What about lubrication for the bearings? Doesn't that have to be > changed at less than 100,000 miles? > > See also an interesting article and nice pix: > > http://www.wired.com/news/wiredmag/0,71414-0.html?tw=wn_index_2 > > http://blog.wired.com/teslacar/ > > - Jed > > > -- That which yields isn't always weak. ------=_Part_120962_9858689.1153955707169 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline generally not, no.  most bearings are closed lube system now.

On 7/20/06, Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell@mindspring.com> wrote:
Quoting the Tesla Motors FAQ:

>The Tesla Roadster has no motor oil or oil
>filters to change, no smog equipment to check, no air filters to
>replace, no power steering fluids to refill.

It does not have power steering?

What about lubrication for the bearings? Doesn't that have to be
changed at less than 100,000 miles?

See also an interesting article and nice pix:

http://www.wired.com/news/wiredmag/0,71414-0.html?tw=wn_index_2

http://blog.wired.com/teslacar/

- Jed





--
That which yields isn't always weak. ------=_Part_120962_9858689.1153955707169-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 26 17:45:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6R0j42H031423; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 17:45:04 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6R0ivxN031360; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 17:44:57 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 17:44:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-CVTV-Spamfilter: Scanned X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <001001c6b115$d98c2db0$df027841 xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060720131317.03f7ce38@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: [Vo]: Tesla Unveiled Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 19:44:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69863 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Howdy Terry, The link refers to Tesla's 1931 Pierce -Arrow touring car supposedly "rigged" up to run on a "black box" sitting on the front seat and caapable of 90 MPH speed. Take it froma guy that drove his first car in 1936. Nobody drove an auto 90 MPH in those days except race drivers with specially equipped motors and gearing. Reference was made the motor was capable of 1800 RPM. That dead giveaway proved the whole episode was a figment of someones imagination. 1800RPM with transmission and gearing in a 1931 Pierce-Arrow would give you speeds of approx 45-50 MPH maximum. .. The Tesla cult is alive and well... All Baloney. Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Blanton" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 5:18 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]: Tesla Unveiled > The first Tesla: > > http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=article&storyid=1062 > > Terry > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 26 18:20:00 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6R1Jgt1020532; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:19:43 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6R1JYRq020458; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:19:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:19:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=esU6gvEp3D9DzEpm1VCBQqzuLaVewMWNkgRJ7SM/N5vWjH22/IjLi0ZRQvERaeo3aoGb7A7pN+L6QHksADFNMbDfpKt1GjVCTixSgOS7xlYkWrOHyD04vO5BCBvu/OaBUGgUoxzs/P5gWBhyZrSi6e5BL+d3A14D6TUbYZPMUx8= Message-ID: Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 21:19:30 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Tesla Unveiled In-Reply-To: <001001c6b115$d98c2db0$df027841 xptower> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060720131317.03f7ce38 mindspring.com> <001001c6b115$d98c2db0$df027841 xptower> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69864 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Howdy, Richard, There's nothing like first hand testimony from someone with experience. I didn't have much faith in the article; since, as a grease monkey, I used to balance tires. T'ain't no way those puppys could spin that fast and keep your teeth in place . . . dentures or real! Terry On 7/26/06, RC Macaulay wrote: > Howdy Terry, > > The link refers to Tesla's 1931 Pierce -Arrow touring car supposedly > "rigged" up to run on a "black box" sitting on the front seat and caapable > of 90 MPH speed. > Take it froma guy that drove his first car in 1936. Nobody drove an auto 90 > MPH in those days except race drivers with specially equipped motors and > gearing. > Reference was made the motor was capable of 1800 RPM. That dead giveaway > proved the whole episode was a figment of someones imagination. 1800RPM with > transmission and gearing in a 1931 Pierce-Arrow would give you speeds of > approx 45-50 MPH maximum. .. The Tesla cult is alive and well... All > Baloney. > Richard > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Terry Blanton" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 5:18 PM > Subject: Re: [Vo]: Tesla Unveiled > > > > The first Tesla: > > > > http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=article&storyid=1062 > > > > Terry > > > > > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 26 18:24:55 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6R1ORJo023433; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:24:27 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6R1OOq1023406; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:24:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:24:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=tDwfAN8ppJbPUe8BYWm5Yx6Z8A1Yx7gulK45tPsWRjekFJUIkd3P7L+uSn6XC08x4ke7ggLR3u0uPN3bjyCTqP3+p9cSDyMk3BaqGcMTbe9BGB/324Of+UJl8AkAunRjPJx692C2sZz967RrojpgID6ElK1yNlXBRgb2DU90dMI= Message-ID: Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:24:21 -0700 From: "leaking pen" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Tesla Unveiled In-Reply-To: <001001c6b115$d98c2db0$df027841 xptower> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_121965_18981816.1153963461671" References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060720131317.03f7ce38 mindspring.com> <001001c6b115$d98c2db0$df027841 xptower> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69865 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ------=_Part_121965_18981816.1153963461671 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline now, wait, it said a black box was the power source for an electric motor put into it. so the motor was replaced, not the regular motor. therefore, existing gearing goes out the window. On 7/26/06, RC Macaulay wrote: > > Howdy Terry, > > The link refers to Tesla's 1931 Pierce -Arrow touring car supposedly > "rigged" up to run on a "black box" sitting on the front seat and caapable > of 90 MPH speed. > Take it froma guy that drove his first car in 1936. Nobody drove an auto > 90 > MPH in those days except race drivers with specially equipped motors and > gearing. > Reference was made the motor was capable of 1800 RPM. That dead giveaway > proved the whole episode was a figment of someones imagination. 1800RPM > with > transmission and gearing in a 1931 Pierce-Arrow would give you speeds of > approx 45-50 MPH maximum. .. The Tesla cult is alive and well... All > Baloney. > Richard > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Terry Blanton" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 5:18 PM > Subject: Re: [Vo]: Tesla Unveiled > > > > The first Tesla: > > > > http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=article&storyid=1062 > > > > Terry > > > > > > > -- That which yields isn't always weak. ------=_Part_121965_18981816.1153963461671 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline now, wait, it said a black box was the power source for an electric motor put into it.  so the motor was replaced, not the regular motor.  therefore, existing gearing goes out the window.

On 7/26/06, RC Macaulay <walhalla@cvtv.net> wrote:
Howdy Terry,

The link refers to Tesla's 1931 Pierce -Arrow touring car supposedly
"rigged" up to run on a "black box" sitting on the front seat and caapable
of 90 MPH speed.
Take it froma  guy that drove his first car in 1936. Nobody drove an auto 90
MPH in those days except race drivers with specially equipped motors and
gearing.
Reference was made the motor was capable of 1800 RPM. That dead giveaway
proved the whole episode was a figment of someones imagination. 1800RPM with
transmission and  gearing in a 1931 Pierce-Arrow would give you speeds of
approx 45-50 MPH maximum. .. The Tesla cult is alive and well... All
Baloney.
Richard
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Blanton" <hohlraum@gmail.com>
To: <vortex-l@eskimo.com >
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]: Tesla Unveiled


> The first Tesla:
>
> http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=article&storyid=1062
>
> Terry
>
>





--
That which yields isn't always weak. ------=_Part_121965_18981816.1153963461671-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 26 18:32:24 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6R1WBxJ028278; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:32:11 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6R1W97p028261; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:32:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:32:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=dMe/Dg9hV3atD8Vjw9j5wnkkF27mfQeaxXTpDQA4TVQWkD7yyNLjdDPlzf0wfMaTb/5X0aR4IxZpRA1k4JyZKYwPqmuindm1pXVKAdeU4PmfOxtrqKplfvZFRK/8bXNTm87NFDwPEV1kAOfxIi99qPKK3kbK4dSx4MMMaTYLor8= Message-ID: Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 21:32:07 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69866 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: The Military and Hubbert Status: RO X-Status: http://www.energybulletin.net/18056.html excerpt from a long article: "The American Petroleum Institute estimates that 1.1 trillion barrels of oil remain; accordingly, this supply would last only 43 years. Estimates of peak world production vary. The U.S. Geological Survey predicts the world's production rate will peak in 2040, while others see global capacity peaking in 2016. Finding new fields or even accessing known reserves presents technological and political challenges. Tapping into reserves located under oceans or in rugged regions of western Asia have proven difficult and expensive." If we maintain a mean consumption of 10^8 barrels per day (it's around 88 mbpd now), 10^12 will last 10^4 days, or totally deplete in 2033. We will be bankrupt and dead long before that. Idiots. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 26 20:17:53 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6R3HdPi020162; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 20:17:40 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6R3Hb0o020140; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 20:17:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 20:17:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: The Military and Hubbert Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 13:17:31 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <419gc2d4lp7mnoi75isa4j9k3t274pro60 4ax.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta04ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.65.19] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Thu, 27 Jul 2006 03:17:30 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6R3HVMY020060 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69867 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Terry Blanton's message of Wed, 26 Jul 2006 21:32:07 -0400: Hi, [snip] >If we maintain a mean consumption of 10^8 barrels per day (it's around >88 mbpd now), 10^12 will last 10^4 days, or totally deplete in 2033. >We will be bankrupt and dead long before that. Idiots. [snip] If you start at the current usage and calculate in an annual growth rate of 2%, it will only last till 2030. World population growth rate is currently about 1.14% (and has been dropping, see http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=xx&v=24), but industrial development means that fuel consumption grows faster than the population. Even at 1.14% it would only last until 2033. Nevertheless, the 1E12 bbl estimate apparently doesn't include the shale oil in the US, which should roughly double the total reserves (See http://www.worldenergy.org/wec-geis/publications/reports/ser/shale/shale.asp). Taking this into account and still assuming a growth rate of only 1.14%, we have till 2053. At 2% it would last till 2046. BTW none of the above takes into account that rising prices will suppress demand. For a very interesting read see also http://www.greatchange.org/ov-simmons,club_of_rome_revisted.html Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Jul 26 23:34:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6R6YhI4011727; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 23:34:44 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6R6YfAP011693; Wed, 26 Jul 2006 23:34:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 23:34:40 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 16:34:34 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta05sl.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.65.19] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Thu, 27 Jul 2006 06:34:33 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6R6YXbR011605 Resent-Message-ID: <-iuw1.A.e2C.A6FyEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69868 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: TEST Status: O X-Status: Really. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 27 01:31:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6R7ofqi010352; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 00:51:22 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6R7MIYO000452; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 00:22:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 00:22:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=ZBQ9cLqI1fGloKZLSJXTiDmnMEKZX1eFgbyyWVPIuO2s8eSDi1LH8QogkWva6BJH; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006742772151726 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 01:21:51 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940511bf753cc5eb7fe332ef65f013944e7350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.123 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69869 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Anions Anonymous and Waterfuel/Joe Cell Entropy Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Creating a Sonic BOOM on his way to the john, "Superman" Jones Beene wrote. > > Fred probably has an opinion of what the total energy could be... > Auto-Ionization of water (- 80 kJ/mole) and hydration of ions ~1,000 kJ/mole) should increase entropy, no? http://www.wwnorton.com/chemistry/concepts/chapter13/ch13_2.htm#1 Gibbs Free Energy: http://members.aol.com/profchm/gibbs.html OTOH, Gas Phase Recombination of Electrons with Protons (13.6 eV, 1,310 kJ/mole) to form H, then H + OH ----> H2O (~ 5.2 eV, 498 kJ/mole) in an ICE increases Entropy a lot more than the condensed phase (1,080 kJ/mole) Auto-Ionization-Hydration of ions,which gives 498 kJ/mole + 230 kJ/mole = 728 kJ/mole "Free Energy" for engine work from the Waterfuel/Joe Cell, no? Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

Creating a Sonic BOOM on his way to the john,
"Superman" Jones Beene wrote.
>
> Fred probably has an opinion of what the total energy could be...
>
Auto-Ionization of water (- 80 kJ/mole) and hydration of ions ~1,000 kJ/mole)
should increase entropy, no?
 
 
Gibbs Free Energy:
 
 
OTOH, Gas Phase Recombination of Electrons with Protons (13.6 eV, 1,310 kJ/mole)
to form H,  then H + OH ----> H2O (~ 5.2 eV,  498 kJ/mole) in an ICE increases Entropy a lot
more than the condensed phase (1,080 kJ/mole) Auto-Ionization-Hydration of ions,which
gives 498 kJ/mole + 230 kJ/mole  = 728 kJ/mole  "Free Energy" for engine work
from the Waterfuel/Joe Cell, no?
 
Fred
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 27 05:01:16 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6RC0Mkc022896; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 05:01:09 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6RBhh7Q013354; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 04:43:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 04:43:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=O1uHCoT7sgewYHvCI8b/6t62y/qFjHFA7dHIzmZVd0t3zQWWsJOlG8Sp3PygTy0NHPlYb81LyMFg57QmWz2jc+kBzYhdSSCLhRoW3KvPcFlwXbbxTJAmWva3yF++QbVQ9FG3PYLi3cCI2L6zfEUDoM51uPtYZD0Yileu6okgaxQ= Message-ID: Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 07:43:35 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: The Military and Hubbert In-Reply-To: <419gc2d4lp7mnoi75isa4j9k3t274pro60 4ax.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <419gc2d4lp7mnoi75isa4j9k3t274pro60 4ax.com> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69870 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 7/26/06, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > For a very interesting read see also > http://www.greatchange.org/ov-simmons,club_of_rome_revisted.html I read this book when I was in college! Thanks for reminding me of it. I came up with an excellent solution: all we need to do is shrink humans and all our technology to a much smaller size and the resources would last much longer. ;-) And, yes, I was smokin' wacky tobaccy back then. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 27 05:21:54 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6RCLSEV006801; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 05:21:29 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6RCLQXO006769; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 05:21:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 05:21:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-CVTV-Spamfilter: Scanned X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Virus-Scanned: by McAfee Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <001001c6b176$b8981630$59037841 xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: [VO]:Re: The Miolitary and Hubbert Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 07:18:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C6B14C.CF2F6B20"; type="multipart/alternative" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69871 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C6B14C.CF2F6B20 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000D_01C6B14C.CF2F6B20" ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C6B14C.CF2F6B20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankRobin referred to link below.. http://www.greatchange.org/ov-simmons,club_of_rome_revisted.html Howdy Robin, Simmons has been a favorite reference for oil and gas(O&G) people in = Texas. Interesting report to gether with the website.. don't miss the = rest of it. Left unmentioned in much of the energy forecasts is the economic warps = created by " credit cards" and their role in new financial programs = like reverse and 2nd mortgages. While Simmons does a great job in O&G trending studies the financial = world uses the daily reports of Wall Street where not anly is everything = for sale but has a published bid price. These bids and prices include = the value of a nation when you think about it. It will not be energy nor food that determines outcome.. it will be = credit. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C6B14C.CF2F6B20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Robin referred to link below..

http://www.greatchange.org/ov-simmons,club_of_rome_revisted.html

=

Howdy Robin,

Simmons has been a favorite reference for oil and gas(O&G) people = in=20 Texas. Interesting report to gether with the website.. don't miss the = rest of=20 it.

Left unmentioned in much of the energy forecasts is the economic = warps=20 created by  " credit cards" and their role in new financial = programs like=20 reverse and 2nd mortgages.

While Simmons does a great job in O&G trending=20 studies the financial world uses the daily reports = of Wall=20 Street where not anly is everything for sale but has a published bid = price.=20 These bids and prices include the value of a nation when you think about = it.

It will not be energy nor food that determines outcome.. it will be=20 credit.

Richard

------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C6B14C.CF2F6B20-- ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C6B14C.CF2F6B20 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000b01c6b176$b7f91710$59037841 xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C6B14C.CF2F6B20-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 27 08:27:33 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6RFQtNT032711; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 08:26:56 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6RFQq17032680; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 08:26:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 08:26:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=UkjcVu/bLudp12GZbM0yvfZRF6D3//JcsefBbx5ftphFvr2k/RWVoDoPL20D39Ocl3o+XNbYMyWz6XLfC/Y/8kVTwus6SxUuA2BvY6KRyPZLpOxGkIA0RCGFpTpLnmYKcLcDnuWMVaZ5qOyGpkZUXisbqCPcRixaF1XU6AugFUA= Message-ID: Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 11:20:22 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [VO]:Re: The Miolitary and Hubbert In-Reply-To: <001001c6b176$b8981630$59037841 xptower> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <001001c6b176$b8981630$59037841 xptower> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69872 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 7/27/06, RC Macaulay wrote: > It will not be energy nor food that determines outcome.. it will be credit. You sure got that right! My wife is a mortgage underwriter and tells me of the risk many homeowners face if the realestate bubble bursts. Unsound approaches to financing could take down the entire industry. Take, for instance, the British Banking Assoc., London Interbank Offered Rate (BBA LIBOR), propensity to offer interest only (no payment against principle) adjustable rate mortgages (IO ARM). With a realestate market growth of 6.5% here in Atlanta and higher elsewhere, many people are buying these LIBOR IO ARMs on houses they could not otherwise afford. With rates climbing they are seeing their payments double. God forbid if something like the bird flu causes deflation in the market. Then watch the Illumanti call those loans! Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 27 10:07:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6RGkp44022691; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 09:46:51 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6RGkgMl022595; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 09:46:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 09:46:41 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00ba01c6b19c$3765a2a0$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 09:46:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69873 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Atomic Coherency Status: RO X-Status: Coherency is a most important meta-phenomenon. It is capable of completely changing "the ordinary" into "the extraordinary" - such as when a beam of light, with the intensity of a lightbulb, say, becomes coherent ... transforming into a laser - capable of cutting through steel or bouncing off a mirror millions of miles away on the moon . Coherency is a wave phenomenon - an ordering of the wave - but oddly enough that fact does not eliminate the possibility that atoms - as well as photons - can become coherent in their wave properties. Atoms have that "duality" of being both a wave and a particle - depending on which side of the bed you got up on this morning, so to speak. Actually we already know that they have this feature at low temperature - and have even given this phenomenon a name: the BEC or Bose-Einstein Condensate. In this case, the meaning of "condensate" and "coherency" are almost the same. Today this story appeared in the Science News: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/07/060727100629.htm "Helium Atoms Sent By Nozzle May Light Way For New Imaging Approach" "A newly devised nozzle fitted with a pinhole-sized capillary has allowed researchers to distribute helium atoms with X-ray-like waves on randomly shaped surfaces. The technique could power the development of a new microscope for nanotechnology, allowing for a non-invasive, high-resolution approach to studying both organic and inorganic materials." END of quote. Basically what they have done is achieved a limited form of atomic wave coherency in helium atoms at high temperature. If I have not "read too much" into this story ( a not-uncommon occurrence, so would say) then the implications are rather provocative. OK ---> they have merely developed this technique for imaging - now. And although there is no mention in the article - one wonders about this kind of atomic coherency feature, perhaps enhanced to cover another wave property, but used in energy situations. Yup a leaner-meaner LENR. Put on your "thinking cap" for a second - Vos. Does anything pop out at you in the realm of LENR ? I'll give you a moment of contemplation before providing one possibility for a leaner-meaner LENR, in another posting. Jones From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 27 11:11:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6RIBYSL007525; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 11:11:34 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6RIBJqX007327; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 11:11:19 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 11:11:18 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=Be9umF2Z32IV5p30A35l1FlMYLSZI/3GGYYjh2nJ7Fpp8Fu1q5+dyOmpT/ol+GhENRmVgu7J3UbuaFQ2S9FGavgLevFSMzyqlPnjwERhXD5BOxi01OtIkkgay02nxbGuYvz13q/vt93MJTwFNObOHjetF/XrNbs91660sdy3tvU= Message-ID: Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 14:11:10 -0400 From: "john herman" To: vortex-l eskimo.com, billb@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_197505_20347367.1154023870827" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69874 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: HELP a computer dummy Just a test..subject keeps.. Status: RO X-Status: A ------=_Part_197505_20347367.1154023870827 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Vo, I am trying to retain the "digest" of Vortex... by get rid of the each-and-every-one letter/post. Can one of you wonderful Vortexiallia let me know BBGB... how to get the post away... but keep the digest? Thanks John Herman On 7/26/06, RC Macaulay wrote: > > Howdy John Berry, > > Interesting thought regarding parallel lines of force. You may expand on > the thought and receive more input form others in the group. > > Regarding "missing" e-mail posts and messages, we have been experiencing > power outages in key locations in the US like St.Louis. The internet is > subject to power outages just like my lightbulbs at home. > > During the past few months there has been some internet "magic" taking > place. I will leave it up to others to speculate and/or identify this magic, > be it key location power outage, mid-east rowdy boys playing games or big > uncle protecting us from ourselves. > Go figure. > > Richard > > > ------=_Part_197505_20347367.1154023870827 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline

 
 Dear Vo,
 
  I am trying to retain the "digest" of Vortex... by get rid of the each-and-every-one letter/post.
 
  Can one of you wonderful Vortexiallia
 
   let me know BBGB... how to get the post away... but keep the digest?
 
  Thanks
 
 John Herman

 
On 7/26/06, RC Macaulay <walhalla@cvtv.net> wrote:
Howdy John Berry,
 
Interesting thought regarding parallel lines of force. You may expand on the thought and receive more input form others in the group.
 
Regarding "missing" e-mail posts and messages, we have been experiencing power outages in key locations in the US like St.Louis. The internet is subject to power outages just like my lightbulbs at home.
 
During the past few months there has been some internet "magic" taking place. I will leave it up to others to speculate and/or identify this magic, be it key location power outage, mid-east rowdy boys playing games or big uncle protecting us from ourselves.
Go figure.
 
Richard

 


------=_Part_197505_20347367.1154023870827-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 27 12:46:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6RJkmpK004891; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 12:46:48 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6RJkkOw004862; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 12:46:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 12:46:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=N6pXg46nibIYdtBW81iCfzpYfWMMzGezF4t2zWCYp+opDucnlbNgxd2aDZMjtJ5Puu+g4GCt1rzAkV3fBGvCmoJBAjlGaJJ1e4E/NzFBafyPyUPcqlM/ipCyt2BLfjmdUGRFZKjh4jGuF5JZLQd6V73WHkHj8BHN3+84HZO8CRY= Message-ID: Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 15:46:45 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: HELP a computer dummy Just a test..subject keeps.. In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69875 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To unsubscribe from individual emails send a message to: vortex-l-request eskimo.com with the word unsubscribe in the subject header. If you haven't already subscribed to the digest, send a message to vortex-digest-request eskimo.com with the word subscribe in the subject header. No words are required in the message body for either. Regards, Terry On 7/27/06, john herman wrote: > > > > Dear Vo, > > I am trying to retain the "digest" of Vortex... by get rid of the > each-and-every-one letter/post. > > Can one of you wonderful Vortexiallia > > let me know BBGB... how to get the post away... but keep the digest? > > Thanks > > John Herman > > > On 7/26/06, RC Macaulay wrote: > > > > > > > > Howdy John Berry, > > > > Interesting thought regarding parallel lines of force. You may expand on > the thought and receive more input form others in the group. > > > > Regarding "missing" e-mail posts and messages, we have been experiencing > power outages in key locations in the US like St.Louis. The internet is > subject to power outages just like my lightbulbs at home. > > > > During the past few months there has been some internet "magic" taking > place. I will leave it up to others to speculate and/or identify this magic, > be it key location power outage, mid-east rowdy boys playing games or big > uncle protecting us from ourselves. > > Go figure. > > > > Richard > > > > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 27 14:25:54 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6RLPXVY003079; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 14:25:34 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6RLPVrF003054; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 14:25:31 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 14:25:31 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: The Military and Hubbert Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 07:25:29 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <419gc2d4lp7mnoi75isa4j9k3t274pro60@4ax.com> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta05ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.65.19] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Thu, 27 Jul 2006 21:25:28 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6RLPS8q003026 Resent-Message-ID: <2fQqrD.A.pv.L9SyEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69876 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Terry Blanton's message of Thu, 27 Jul 2006 07:43:35 -0400: Hi, [snip] >I came up with an excellent solution: all we need to do is shrink >humans and all our technology to a much smaller size and the resources >would last much longer. ;-) > >And, yes, I was smokin' wacky tobaccy back then. > >Terry If the "greys" are our descendants that have traveled back in time, then perhaps your "pipe dreams" will actually be put into practice. ;) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 27 15:02:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6RM2Uir024390; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 15:02:31 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6RM2Sr7024356; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 15:02:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 15:02:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 18:00:58 -0500 From: Harry Veeder Subject: Re: [Vo]: The Military and Hubbert In-reply-to: To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Resent-Message-ID: <7srD9D.A.d8F.zfTyEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69877 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Terry Blanton wrote: > On 7/26/06, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > >> For a very interesting read see also >> http://www.greatchange.org/ov-simmons,club_of_rome_revisted.html > > I read this book when I was in college! Thanks for reminding me of it. > > I came up with an excellent solution: all we need to do is shrink > humans and all our technology to a much smaller size and the resources > would last much longer. ;-) > > And, yes, I was smokin' wacky tobaccy back then. > > Terry But did you inhale? Harry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 27 16:28:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6RNRrBB009604; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 16:27:54 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6RNRoTI009559; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 16:27:50 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 16:27:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-CVTV-Spamfilter: Scanned X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Virus-Scanned: by McAfee Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <000c01c6b1d4$38f6cf80$0100007f xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: [VO]:Re: The military and Hubbert Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 18:26:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C6B1AA.36C40310"; type="multipart/alternative" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69878 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C6B1AA.36C40310 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0009_01C6B1AA.36C40310" ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C6B1AA.36C40310 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankTerry wrote.. > It will not be energy nor food that determines outcome.. it will be = credit. You sure got that right! My wife is a mortgage underwriter and tells me of the risk many homeowners face if the realestate bubble bursts. Unsound approaches to financing could take down the entire industry. Take, for instance, the British Banking Assoc., London Interbank Offered Rate (BBA LIBOR), propensity to offer interest only (no payment against principle) adjustable rate mortgages (IO ARM). With a realestate market growth of 6.5% here in Atlanta and higher elsewhere, many people are buying these LIBOR IO ARMs on houses they could not otherwise afford. With rates climbing they are seeing their payments double. God forbid if something like the bird flu causes deflation in the market. Then watch the Illumanti call those loans! Howdy Terry, When the story is written about financials and debt instruments the word = " derivative" ("D") will still be misunderstood. Consider the underlying = base for the world's money is NOT gold but big "D". The credit card = industry, banking, mortgage and insurance industry couldn't function = without "D"s yet they are completely uncontrolled and few have more than = a hint of "what they are".=20 One of the greatest plays executed to present was Warren Buffett buying = General Re. GenRe had some 2 trillion in "D"s when Buffett bought GenRe = for some 20 billion. Given that "D"s aren't worth the paper they don't = even bother to print them on, what do you do with 2 tril in "D"s??. = Reconceptualize what a "D" is, of course. He showed the world they were = as good as money in the bank to back up insurance. AIG worked a deal = with GenRe and moved 15 bil cash offshore and Eliot Spitzer considered = that poor sportsmanship. Visa and Mastercard almost went ballistic when = this tidbit of info leaked. The rumbles roiled thru Fanny Mae and = Freddie Mac with enough noise to cause a few heads to roll before they = stopped the info leak. The mother of all hot air balloons is high in the sky and nobody better = even think about sticking a pin in it. THe Chinese are the biggest users = of "D"s. They are using WalMart's credit card when you think about it. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C6B1AA.36C40310 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Terry wrote..

> It will not be energy nor food that determines outcome.. it will = be=20 credit.

You sure got that right!

My wife is a mortgage = underwriter=20 and tells me of the risk many
homeowners face if the realestate = bubble=20 bursts.  Unsound approaches
to financing could take down the = entire=20 industry.

Take, for instance, the British Banking Assoc., London=20 Interbank
Offered Rate (BBA LIBOR), propensity to offer interest only = (no
payment against principle) adjustable rate mortgages (IO = ARM).  With=20 a
realestate market growth of 6.5% here in Atlanta and higher=20 elsewhere,
many people are buying these LIBOR IO ARMs on houses they = could=20 not
otherwise afford.  With rates climbing they are seeing their = payments
double.  God forbid if something like the bird flu = causes=20 deflation in
the market.  Then watch the Illumanti call those=20 loans!

Howdy Terry,

When the story is written about financials and debt instruments the = word "=20 derivative" ("D") will still be misunderstood. Consider the underlying = base for=20 the world's money is NOT gold but big "D". The credit card industry, = banking,=20 mortgage and insurance industry couldn't function without "D"s yet they = are=20 completely uncontrolled and few have more than a hint of "what they = are".

One of the greatest plays executed to present was Warren Buffett = buying=20 General Re. GenRe had some 2 trillion in "D"s when Buffett bought GenRe = for some=20 20 billion. Given that "D"s aren't worth the paper they don't even = bother=20 to print them on, what do you do with 2 tril in "D"s??. Reconceptualize = what a=20 "D" is, of course. He showed the world they were as good as money in the = bank to=20 back up insurance. AIG worked a deal with GenRe and moved 15 bil cash = offshore=20 and Eliot Spitzer considered that poor sportsmanship. Visa and = Mastercard almost=20 went ballistic when this tidbit of info leaked. The rumbles roiled thru = Fanny=20 Mae and Freddie Mac with enough noise to cause a few heads to roll = before they=20 stopped the info leak.

The mother of all hot air balloons is high in the sky and nobody = better even=20 think about sticking a pin in it. THe Chinese are the biggest users of = "D"s.=20 They are using WalMart's credit card when you think about it.

Richard

------=_NextPart_001_0009_01C6B1AA.36C40310-- ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C6B1AA.36C40310 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000701c6b1d4$1f7e93d0$0100007f xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C6B1AA.36C40310-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 27 19:20:37 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6S2KIsT029184; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 19:20:18 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6S2KC93029148; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 19:20:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 19:20:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com Message-ID: <547.6d14d080.31face57 aol.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 22:20:07 EDT To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1154053207" X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5312 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69879 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: digest only Status: RO X-Status: -------------------------------1154053207 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Vo, I am trying to retain the "digest" of Vortex... by get rid of the each-and-every-one letter/post. Can one of you wonderful Vortexiallia let me know BBGB... how to get the post away... but keep the digest? Thanks John Herman I to don't want my inbox clutttered up with incoming mail. I block mail from vortex and open up the digest on the internet when I want to read it. _vortex-l_ (http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l eskimo.com/) Frank Znidarsic -------------------------------1154053207 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Vo,=20
 
  I am trying to retain the "digest" of Vortex... by get rid of th= e=20 each-and-every-one letter/post.
 
  Can one of you wonderful Vortexiallia
 
   let me know BBGB... how to get the post away... but keep t= he=20 digest?
 
  Thanks
 
 John Herman
 
I to don't want my inbox clutttered up with incoming mail.
I block mail from vortex and open up the digest on the internet when
I want to read it.
 
 
 
Frank Znidarsic
 -------------------------------1154053207-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 27 19:36:35 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6S2aIjo004576; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 19:36:19 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6S2aG7O004556; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 19:36:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 19:36:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=bruvzCnqQxRQOT4zTwwAekpVox3Lqi4M4bG8XOsqQG/1SVlKAdMp/HvOMrjTkuUJWjgagkZgkxWRW6sSMM1n0BscoVkzA9TSae8BQSpD9ib4MkZT5Mz7wpTFDBwM3Yc5ckXkf/epp4b3AdwjsSsEQfcJKTGFfPTlgY+DLafRkkY= Message-ID: Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 22:36:15 -0400 From: "john herman" To: vortex-l eskimo.com, FZNIDARSIC@aol.com, billb@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_204382_11582748.1154054175169" Resent-Message-ID: <985f9D.A.EHB.ggXyEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69880 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: HELP HELP two [2] times??? only Status: RO X-Status: ------=_Part_204382_11582748.1154054175169 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Frank, and all vo That is JUST fine.... but... I DO NOT KNOW how to do that!!! Will someone PLEASE help a computer illiterattaiieie? On 7/27/06, FZNIDARSIC aol.com wrote: > > Dear Vo, > I am trying to retain the "digest" of Vortex... by get rid of the > each-and-every-one letter/post. > > Can one of you wonderful Vortexiallia > > let me know BBGB... how to get the post away... but keep the digest? > > Thanks > > John Herman > > I to don't want my inbox clutttered up with incoming mail. > I block mail from vortex and open up the digest on the internet when > I want to read it. > > vortex-l > > > Frank Znidarsic > ------=_Part_204382_11582748.1154054175169 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
Dear Frank,
 
 
 and all vo
 
 That is JUST fine.... but... I DO NOT KNOW how to do that!!!
 
 Will someone PLEASE help a computer illiterattaiieie?

 
On 7/27/06, FZNIDARSIC@aol.com <FZNIDARSIC@aol.com> wrote:
Dear Vo,
 
  I am trying to retain the "digest" of Vortex... by get rid of the each-and-every-one letter/post.
 
  Can one of you wonderful Vortexiallia
 
   let me know BBGB... how to get the post away... but keep the digest?
 
  Thanks
 
 John Herman
 
I to don't want my inbox clutttered up with incoming mail.
I block mail from vortex and open up the digest on the internet when
I want to read it.
 
 
 
Frank Znidarsic

------=_Part_204382_11582748.1154054175169-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 27 21:43:01 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6S4gVBg027123; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 21:42:32 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6S4gThm027091; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 21:42:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 21:42:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Reply-To: From: "John Steck" To: Subject: RE: [Vo]: The Military and Hubbert Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 23:42:15 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <419gc2d4lp7mnoi75isa4j9k3t274pro60 4ax.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-EN-UserInfo: 903cebd83ef8529e7e6c1a7efe57779c:d8c21b0922dfed363e9ac277a3db5901 X-EN-AuthUser: johnsteck Sender: "John Steck" Resent-Message-ID: <9nFr8C.A.DnG.0WZyEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69881 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Nor does it take into effect phenomenon like old/tapped wells filling back up by unknown means (does anyone really still believe decayed organic material is the sole/primary feedstock?). Nor does it take into effect population adjusters like war, global epidemics, and environmental disasters. Running out of oil will be the least of our concerns if we have a sudden on-set of another ice age due to pole flip or planet warming (geothermal magnetic induction, green house gas run-away, solar output increases, etc.) I put these analysis in the same column as the 5-day weather forecast. Possibly true, but likely not going to happen like that. -john -----Original Message----- From: Robin van Spaandonk [mailto:rvanspaa bigpond.net.au] Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 10:18 PM To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: The Military and Hubbert In reply to Terry Blanton's message of Wed, 26 Jul 2006 21:32:07 -0400: Hi, [snip] >If we maintain a mean consumption of 10^8 barrels per day (it's around >88 mbpd now), 10^12 will last 10^4 days, or totally deplete in 2033. >We will be bankrupt and dead long before that. Idiots. [snip] If you start at the current usage and calculate in an annual growth rate of 2%, it will only last till 2030. World population growth rate is currently about 1.14% (and has been dropping, see http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=xx&v=24), but industrial development means that fuel consumption grows faster than the population. Even at 1.14% it would only last until 2033. Nevertheless, the 1E12 bbl estimate apparently doesn't include the shale oil in the US, which should roughly double the total reserves (See http://www.worldenergy.org/wec-geis/publications/reports/ser/shale/shale.asp ). Taking this into account and still assuming a growth rate of only 1.14%, we have till 2053. At 2% it would last till 2046. BTW none of the above takes into account that rising prices will suppress demand. For a very interesting read see also http://www.greatchange.org/ov-simmons,club_of_rome_revisted.html Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 27 21:43:09 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6S4gY1N027146; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 21:42:35 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6S4gUNm027110; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 21:42:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 21:42:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Reply-To: From: "John Steck" To: Subject: RE: [Vo]: The Military and Hubbert Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 23:42:18 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-EN-UserInfo: 903cebd83ef8529e7e6c1a7efe57779c:d8c21b0922dfed363e9ac277a3db5901 X-EN-AuthUser: johnsteck Sender: "John Steck" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69882 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: One side makes you tall, one side makes you small says the Major. 8^) -----Original Message----- From: Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlraum gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 6:44 AM To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: The Military and Hubbert On 7/26/06, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > For a very interesting read see also > http://www.greatchange.org/ov-simmons,club_of_rome_revisted.html I read this book when I was in college! Thanks for reminding me of it. I came up with an excellent solution: all we need to do is shrink humans and all our technology to a much smaller size and the resources would last much longer. ;-) And, yes, I was smokin' wacky tobaccy back then. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 27 23:09:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6S69U4T008488; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 23:09:30 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6S69OTV008427; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 23:09:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 23:09:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: Subject: Re: [Vo]: The Military and Hubbert Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:09:15 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <4m9jc2hl2gnbji73f55hodfb17r545opub 4ax.com> References: <419gc2d4lp7mnoi75isa4j9k3t274pro60 4ax.com> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta03ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.65.19] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Fri, 28 Jul 2006 06:09:15 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6S69G4U008339 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69883 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to John Steck's message of Thu, 27 Jul 2006 23:42:15 -0500: Hi, [snip] >Nor does it take into effect phenomenon like old/tapped wells filling back >up by unknown means While this is apparently happening to some extent in some cases, it clearly can't keep up with demand, or the US wouldn't be importing any oil. >(does anyone really still believe decayed organic >material is the sole/primary feedstock?). No I. >Nor does it take into effect >population adjusters like war, global epidemics, and environmental >disasters. True, but these things have always been around, and oil consumption seems to keep growing nevertheless. > >Running out of oil will be the least of our concerns if we have a sudden >on-set of another ice age due to pole flip or planet warming (geothermal >magnetic induction, green house gas run-away, solar output increases, etc.) Since oil depletion and global warming go hand in hand, we will likely have both. Though it's possible that the high price of oil will eventually mitigate global warming to some extent. > >I put these analysis in the same column as the 5-day weather forecast. >Possibly true, but likely not going to happen like that. The only way we are going to dodge this bullet, is if we come up with a major alternative. A hurricane might be a better analogy. You know it's coming, and you know it will be dangerous, you just don't know precisely where or when it will make landfall. The difference is that when a hurricane is coming, people take measures to protect themselves from the effects, rather than running around trying to convince others that there are no such things as hurricanes. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Jul 27 23:50:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6S6oIPo026267; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 23:50:30 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6S6VqZB017384; Thu, 27 Jul 2006 23:31:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 23:31:51 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:31:25 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta04sl.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.65.19] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Fri, 28 Jul 2006 06:31:25 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6S6ViJL017307 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69884 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Faux D again Status: O X-Status: Hi, If Faux D masquerades as normal D, then a considerable proportion of heavy water may comprise Faux D. Therefore perhaps some of the CF experiments that only produce excess heat when using heavy water, do so, because of the relatively high Faux D content. This is really just a "half formed" thought. I can't envisage the actual mechanism yet. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 28 05:03:06 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6SC2vjb013470; Fri, 28 Jul 2006 05:02:57 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6SC2sA3013451; Fri, 28 Jul 2006 05:02:54 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 05:02:54 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-CVTV-Spamfilter: Scanned X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Virus-Scanned: by McAfee Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <001001c6b23d$b7dab230$12027841 xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: [VO]:Re: The Military and Hubbert Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 07:02:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C6B213.CDA9D520" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69885 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C6B213.CDA9D520 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000D_01C6B213.CDAB5BC0" ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C6B213.CDAB5BC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank >Nor does it take into effect phenomenon like old/tapped wells filling = back >up by unknown means . Russian scientists have a good take on the case for bacterial causes for = petroleum formation deep in the earth. Robin wrote..=20 While this is apparently happening to some extent in some cases, it clearly can't keep up with demand, or the US wouldn't be importing any oil. Howdy Robin, Major world petroleum firms ship oil to the US for the simple reason of = supply and demand. The state of Colorado has the largest untapped oil = reserve in the world but when you can get milk thru the fence why buy = the cow. Alaskian oil goes to Japan not the US. The deal was made = because Alaeska Pipeline (BP) built the pipeline using large dia pipe = only produced by Japan and shipping costs make sense.=20 Does anyone really believe big oil pays the going price for crude oil = from bandit regime nations like Nigeria, Saudi, Kuwait, Yemen, = Indonesia, Angola etc. Look at the deal Exxon put together with Zaire = recently. Is it possible that China has began to "tap" into these = sources? Is it possible that China could upset the gravy train with = biscuit wheels enjoyed by big oil ? Is it possible that Chinese, the = mother of all bandit regimes has cut a deal with big oil? Did Kaddafi = understand the math? For sure, big oil, private operated businesses joined at the hip, is the = single most efficent and profitable enterprise ever conceived. Big oil = may also be the stabilizing agent for the world economy and not the = Federal Reserve nor gold. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C6B213.CDAB5BC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
 

>Nor does it take into effect phenomenon like old/tapped wells = filling=20 back
>up by unknown means .

Russian scientists have a good take on the case for bacterial causes = for=20 petroleum formation deep in the earth.

Robin wrote..


While this is apparently happening to some extent in some = cases,
it=20 clearly can't keep up with demand, or the US wouldn't be
importing = any=20 oil.

Howdy Robin,

 Major world petroleum firms ship oil to the US for the simple = reason of=20 supply and demand. The state of Colorado has the largest untapped oil = reserve in=20 the world  but when you can get milk thru the fence why buy the = cow.=20 Alaskian oil goes to Japan not the US. The deal was made because Alaeska = Pipeline (BP) built the pipeline using large dia pipe only produced by = Japan=20 and shipping costs make sense. 

Does anyone really believe big oil pays the going price for crude oil = from=20 bandit regime nations like Nigeria, Saudi, Kuwait, Yemen, Indonesia, = Angola etc.=20 Look at the deal Exxon put together with Zaire recently. Is it = possible=20 that China has began to "tap" into these sources? Is it possible that = China=20 could upset the gravy train with biscuit wheels enjoyed by big oil ? Is = it=20 possible that Chinese, the mother of all bandit regimes has cut a = deal with=20 big oil? Did Kaddafi understand the math?

For sure, big oil, private operated businesses joined at the = hip, is the=20 single most efficent and profitable enterprise ever conceived. Big oil = may also=20 be the stabilizing agent for the world economy and not the Federal = Reserve nor=20 gold.

Richard

------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C6B213.CDAB5BC0-- ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C6B213.CDA9D520 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000b01c6b23d$b637feb0$12027841 xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C6B213.CDA9D520-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 28 07:00:49 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6SE0V1T016534; Fri, 28 Jul 2006 07:00:31 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6SE0Rtp016487; Fri, 28 Jul 2006 07:00:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 07:00:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=lsfJwWQJiLBIAtF9iSFXqcLiRq7gAcI7XUumZ+AxCfzE6Pjr7r6eU4y0RpLSTAiS; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006752814015741 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 08:00:15 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94037598bd87365043aeb6d7487fa68ab80350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.231 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69886 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Production and Storage of Waterfuel Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >From the literature on the thermodynamics of promoted exothermic ionization and hydration of water: http://www.wwnorton.com/chemistry/overview/ch13.htm#hydration Nanoclusters of hydrated cations and anions can be produced using low current electrolyzers that trigger chain reaction production of the Nanoclusters. The bottom line is that water can be continuously circulated into the ionizing "pre-conditioner" from a storage tank for enrichment,. The "Browns Gas" co-product can be stored separately. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

From the literature on the thermodynamics of promoted
exothermic ionization and hydration of water:
 
 
Nanoclusters of hydrated cations and anions can be produced using
low current electrolyzers that trigger chain reaction production of the Nanoclusters.
 
The bottom line is that water can be continuously circulated into
the  ionizing "pre-conditioner" from a storage tank
for enrichment,. The "Browns Gas" co-product can be stored separately.
 
Fred
 
 
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 28 07:19:02 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6SEIb7U027799; Fri, 28 Jul 2006 07:18:38 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6SEIYSQ027741; Fri, 28 Jul 2006 07:18:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 07:18:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=K8Z3e/bv4fQm5KD3EWm1gyEAoXe8/9lVtBMH9j4b04t48uS6qWvIXe2nDYkfPNDpyjSOU1pdG6KkBVhhoJzr1MBgzuX1cnhjB0znDLqoS2fAxhHBer4E8YCslN1oBlC+jI1v537MdhhOjnTffrXsIYR8ADuZ69s9lgFtk6RRcWY= Message-ID: Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:18:29 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69887 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Reverse Engineered Methernitha Status: O X-Status: With pictures of the model: http://website.lineone.net/~aarekhu/elecfg.htm The author is Paul E Potter . . . you don't think . . . naaa. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 28 08:24:36 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6SFO3fn004422; Fri, 28 Jul 2006 08:24:04 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6SFNtG1004340; Fri, 28 Jul 2006 08:23:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 08:23:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=eQIjT2bfn+CWUJZP6yy9fDNw36g0899umGA0Y/XzmT1Nt1mV76Ne+p/VyaQk8OX1QiQpq9vjsd06p+FQEvlXftACLKqZj4VWNhsEwKqyRKu2NcUzsDQyRDsb+eYAsudWM/qC4U+NT9GQDFZ2wOM8Lg85Xsin+yu2xb0qigzGij8= Message-ID: Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 11:23:53 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69888 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Fire from Ice Status: O X-Status: No, not about Gene's book (GRHS). A report on methane hydrates: http://www.iupac.org/publications/ci/2006/2804/2804-pp3-7.pdf the ice that burns. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 28 17:06:15 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6T05mWA022345; Fri, 28 Jul 2006 17:05:49 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6T05ftT022275; Fri, 28 Jul 2006 17:05:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 17:05:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Reverse Engineered Methernitha Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 10:05:19 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3h9lc2hbf97svcm8u2i4ri0fnfscst5g17 4ax.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta02ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.65.19] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Sat, 29 Jul 2006 00:05:19 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6T05KdD022101 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69889 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Terry Blanton's message of Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:18:29 -0400: Hi, [snip] >With pictures of the model: > >http://website.lineone.net/~aarekhu/elecfg.htm What does this have to do with Methernitha? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 28 17:24:16 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6T0O1PM031010; Fri, 28 Jul 2006 17:24:01 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6T0NxGT030986; Fri, 28 Jul 2006 17:23:59 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 17:23:59 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [VO]:Re: The Military and Hubbert Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 10:23:52 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <001001c6b23d$b7dab230$12027841 xptower> In-Reply-To: <001001c6b23d$b7dab230$12027841 xptower> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta02sl.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.65.19] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Sat, 29 Jul 2006 00:23:52 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6T0Nqo1030912 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69890 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to RC Macaulay's message of Fri, 28 Jul 2006 07:02:34 -0500: Hi, [snip] >While this is apparently happening to some extent in some cases, >it clearly can't keep up with demand, or the US wouldn't be >importing any oil. > >Howdy Robin, > > Major world petroleum firms ship oil to the US for the simple reason of supply and demand. The state of Colorado has the largest untapped oil reserve in the world but when you can get milk thru the fence why buy the cow. I was going to say..because it's cheaper to feed a cow than to continually buy milk...but of course this isn't true when you are paying for the milk with currency that you print yourself, and force the rest of the world to also use to buy milk (thus keeping the value of your currency artificially high). [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 28 19:05:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6T24iXh028852; Fri, 28 Jul 2006 19:04:45 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6T24hLO028837; Fri, 28 Jul 2006 19:04:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 19:04:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=ix.netcom.com; b=C+nFxglyGoGVkStuj8FgOcEqM40fLy9kEIIRTfHOoeSPxhWv+uOq3BnVbI9zrhsM; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <380-2200676292454870 ix.netcom.com> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: aki ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.122.0 (Windows) From: "" To: "vortex-l" Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 19:04:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: c4cc7f5f697e8746f66dc3a06d5924d8825131991e72a688cd3194687101346f0ca2637590cc961d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 216.175.78.6 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69891 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: (VO) FW: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday July 28, 2006 Status: RO X-Status: Forward from aki ix.netcom.com (Akira Kawasaki) > [Original Message] > From: What's New To: Date: 7/28/2006 2:02:47 PM Subject: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday July 28, 2006 WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 28 Jul 06 Washington, DC 1. BLEEP: IT IS PHYSICS THAT UNLEASHED THIS PLAGUE ON MANKIND. Some suggested that I take refuge behind the Geneva Convention or the Eighth Amendment rather than watch the film What the Bleep Do We Know. It was penance for allowing myself to be used on ABC's Primetime, where Adam Dreamhealer attributed his awesome power to "quantum mechanics." In "Bleep" every spiritual claim becomes an example of "consciousness" acting through quantum mechanics. In physics, unfortunately, the word "consciousness" is invariably followed by bullshit. Having found a way to make incredibly precise predictions at the atomic level, we chose to ignore the fact that we don't understand it. After all, QM has transformed the world. We now flaunt the fact that no one understands quantum mechanics. We have begun to enjoy being high priests of a mystical religion. It's like giving Mass in Latin. 2. THE CAST: PHYSICS IS NOT AN INOCULATION AGAINST FOOLISHNESS. Nor does it rule out mendacity. Two Ph.D. physicists, William Tiller and John Hagelin, who were in "Bleep," are afflicted with both conditions, and have been in WN in the past. Just look for them in http://bobpark.physics.umd.edu/search.html . In "Bleep," Hagelin again claimed, as he has countless times, to have reduced violent crime in Washington, DC in the summer of 1993 by the meditation of 1,000 TM "experts" in unison. I was at the press conference a year later when he reported that the reduction was 18%. "18% relative to what" a puzzled reporter asked? "Relative to what it would have been if they had not been meditating," he replied. In fact the DC murder rate during that period was the highest ever recorded. More on Tiller and Ramtha next week. 3. KANSAS: WILL VOTERS WAKE UP FOR TUESDAY'S PRIMARY ELECTION? Voters don't pay attention to School Board elections unless there is a problem. Well, there's a problem: Creationists have a 6-4 majority. It can be solved; 4 creationists are up for election. 4. NASA: "OUR HOME PLANET" IS REMOVED FROM MISSION STATEMENT. On 3 Feb, after NASA climate scientist James Hansen told the NY Times he was being harassed for speaking out about greenhouse gas emissions http://bobpark.physics.umd.edu/WN06/wn020306.html , NASA Chief Michael Griffin issued a "scientific openness" policy. However, on 6 Feb, the phrase, "understand and protect our home planet," was quietly removed from the NASA mission statement. It had been cited by Hansen to justify his remarks. 5. GLOBAL WARMING: PASSING THE HAT FOR A FOSSIL FUEL APOLOGIST. AP today reports that Patrick Michaels, one of the last global warming deniers, told officials of Western coal-burning utilities that he's running out of money to "analyze" scientific critics. He's professor of environmental science at U. Virginia and senior fellow of the libertarian Cato Institute. It's OK to be a lobbyist, as long as you don't pretend to be a scientist. THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND. Opinions are the author's and not necessarily shared by the University of Maryland, but they should be. --- Archives of What's New can be found at http://www.bobpark.org What's New is moving to a different listserver and our subscription process has changed. To change your subscription status please visit this link: http://listserv.umd.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=bobparks-whatsnew&A=1 From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 28 21:30:50 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6T4USSP003720; Fri, 28 Jul 2006 21:30:29 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6T4UNIc003669; Fri, 28 Jul 2006 21:30:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 21:30:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Reply-To: From: "John Steck" To: Subject: RE: [VO]:Re: The Military and Hubbert Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 23:30:12 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_01C6B29D.C5E0C710" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 In-Reply-To: <001001c6b23d$b7dab230$12027841 xptower> X-EN-UserInfo: 903cebd83ef8529e7e6c1a7efe57779c:d8c21b0922dfed363e9ac277a3db5901 X-EN-AuthUser: johnsteck Sender: "John Steck" Resent-Message-ID: <505HUC.A.N5.eRuyEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69892 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C6B29D.C5E0C710 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0001_01C6B29D.C5E58200" ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C6B29D.C5E58200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Blankharumph harumph harumph.... 8^) -----Original Message----- From: RC Macaulay [mailto:walhalla cvtv.net] Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 7:03 AM To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: [VO]:Re: The Military and Hubbert Big oil may also be the stabilizing agent for the world economy and not the Federal Reserve nor gold. ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C6B29D.C5E58200 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
harumph = harumph=20 harumph.... 8^)
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: RC Macaulay=20 [mailto:walhalla cvtv.net]
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 7:03=20 AM
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: [VO]:Re: The = Military=20 and Hubbert

Big oil may also be the stabilizing agent for the world economy and = not the=20 Federal Reserve nor gold.

 

------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C6B29D.C5E58200-- ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C6B29D.C5E0C710 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <578024513 28072006-35cb> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C6B29D.C5E0C710-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Jul 28 21:30:52 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6T4UbwH003791; Fri, 28 Jul 2006 21:30:37 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6T4UXDN003747; Fri, 28 Jul 2006 21:30:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 21:30:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Reply-To: From: "John Steck" To: Subject: RE: [Vo]: The Military and Hubbert Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 23:30:11 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 In-Reply-To: <4m9jc2hl2gnbji73f55hodfb17r545opub 4ax.com> X-EN-UserInfo: 903cebd83ef8529e7e6c1a7efe57779c:d8c21b0922dfed363e9ac277a3db5901 X-EN-AuthUser: johnsteck Sender: "John Steck" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69893 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I know picking a side is contentious, but I disagree entirely with that statement. I will not argue the point that we are too reliant on a single fuel source, that this addiction is dumping excessive C02 into the environment, that this dumping is very bad, and that it has a measurable negative effect on the thermal dynamics of the planet (crapping in our own fishbowl). But it is a hard argument to maintain that the increase in geological events is direct result. Cyclical warming and cooling has been going on long before long before we show up in the fossil record. I submit that even if we stop fossil fuel consumption entirely today we would still see a planetary warm up and the onset of an ice age (we are approximately 100k years overdue, some say our industrialization pollution in the last 2 centuries has actually been keeping it at bay). We WILL have a pole flip in this century. It's a regular, reoccurring event detailed for millennia in the geological record. I postulate that this event, and the influence of the sun's magnetic field on our wobbling and flipping field, has and will continue to magnetically inductive heat this big ball of iron. It's probably the primary mechanism that keeps the core of the plant molten to begin with. http://www.michaelmandeville.com/polarmotion/spinaxis/vortex_correlations2.h tm Perhaps the timing of the 'introduction' by our moon base neighbors is not ad-hoc after all. Perhaps they are here to witness and study the event, we are just canaries in the coal mine. ...ok, I am bumming myself out now. sorry. -john -----Original Message----- From: Robin van Spaandonk [mailto:rvanspaa bigpond.net.au] Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 1:09 AM To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: The Military and Hubbert Since oil depletion and global warming go hand in hand, we will likely have both. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 29 01:50:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6T8oRsR029599; Sat, 29 Jul 2006 01:50:28 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6T8oNg2029553; Sat, 29 Jul 2006 01:50:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 01:50:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=ipUo+hM0Bw52dbj+EgnHZ1i8XssoPqJti7nw2UnNsuTIMTYyUgh1TPnBarutBX1N; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-2200676298501914 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 02:50:19 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9404fb3ea2f89284590f30476ca04a25ad6350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.8 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69894 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re; Colloidal Carbon Nanoparticles in Waterfuel/Joe Cell Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Found this while looking for colloidal carbon as a combustible Nanocluster "seed" for Waterfuel/Joe Cell pre-treatment. They should burn to CO2 in the ICE. http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.htm 5,677,075 Activated lead-acid battery with carbon suspension electrolyte " when water is used as an electrolyte solution to electrolytically oxidize carbon, the pH value of the electrolyte solution shifts to 2 to 3 on the side of acidity. Taking the above fact into consideration, it seems that the original form of acid is carboxylic acid. In case of electrolytic oxidation of carbon, when an electrode made of the carbon material is applied with direct current voltage in water and the currents are gradually intensified, carbon powder is deposited like mist around the positive electrode when the current value exceeds a certain value (the voltage value is variable depending on a distance between the electrodes). The deposited powder suspends in the form of colloid in the water. When electrodes are soaked in the carbon suspension and applied with direct current voltage, the deposited carbon powder is adsorbed on a positive electrode. This electrolytically deposited carbon powder is referred to as electrolytic oxidized carbon powder in the present invention. The above treatment is referred to as treatment of electrolytic oxidation. " They must be "Anions Anonymous". :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

Found this while looking for colloidal carbon as a combustible
Nanocluster "seed" for Waterfuel/Joe Cell pre-treatment.
 
They should burn to CO2 in the ICE.
 
 
5,677,075  Activated lead-acid battery with carbon suspension electrolyte
 
" when water is used as an electrolyte solution to electrolytically oxidize carbon, the pH value of the electrolyte solution shifts to 2 to 3 on the side of acidity. Taking the above fact into consideration, it seems that the original form of acid is carboxylic acid. In case of electrolytic oxidation of carbon, when an electrode made of the carbon material is applied with direct current voltage in water and the currents are gradually intensified, carbon powder is deposited like mist around the positive electrode when the current value exceeds a certain value (the voltage value is variable depending on a distance between the electrodes). The deposited powder suspends in the form of colloid in the water. When electrodes are soaked in the carbon suspension and applied with direct current voltage, the deposited carbon powder is adsorbed on a positive electrode. This electrolytically deposited carbon powder is referred to as electrolytic oxidized carbon powder in the present invention. The above treatment is referred to as treatment of electrolytic oxidation. "
They must be "Anions Anonymous".    :-)
 
Fred
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 29 02:50:58 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6T9oe0n026075; Sat, 29 Jul 2006 02:50:40 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6T9ocAj026056; Sat, 29 Jul 2006 02:50:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 02:50:38 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=WxhsQSzVmtQeD+2KdDtkHV9J6X2SpXZ2bjCxezqW7siDRYjyReiQ+dzyeSKIA4e/; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006762995025481 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: RE: [Vo]: Re; Colloidal Carbon Nanoparticles in Waterfuel/Joe Cell Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 03:50:25 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9405ad7841559d20505ae788051984ce40a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.79 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69895 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII OTOH, One might accomplish the same thing by pressurization with CO2 or a lump of Dry ICE. No pun intended. :-) I like this example: "EXAMPLE 8 (Revival of battery of imported car): In a battery mounted in a car manufactured by MERCEDES BENZ (trademark) which was conveyed from German on a ship and landed in Japan, completely deep discharge was proceeded under the influence of ambient air temperature when the ship passed the equator during transportation, so that the battery could not be used nor charged. A trial was made to revive the battery which could not be used because of the deep discharge. A total amount of 250 cc of a carbon suspension was supplied in each cell of a battery (almost 100 AH) of a 4.5 liter displacement engine of the car manufactured by MERCEDES BENZ which battery could not be charged. The battery was charged with currents of 60A for 15 minutes. When the battery was mounted in the car manufactured by MERCEDES BENZ and the engine was tried to be started, the engine could be started at once. It became clear from the above that the carbon suspension could recover a battery which deeply discharged, by quick charge for a short period of time. " Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 7/29/2006 2:51:05 AM Subject: [Vo]: Re; Colloidal Carbon Nanoparticles in Waterfuel/Joe Cell Found this while looking for colloidal carbon as a combustible Nanocluster "seed" for Waterfuel/Joe Cell pre-treatment. They should burn to CO2 in the ICE. http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.htm 5,677,075 Activated lead-acid battery with carbon suspension electrolyte " when water is used as an electrolyte solution to electrolytically oxidize carbon, the pH value of the electrolyte solution shifts to 2 to 3 on the side of acidity. Taking the above fact into consideration, it seems that the original form of acid is carboxylic acid. In case of electrolytic oxidation of carbon, when an electrode made of the carbon material is applied with direct current voltage in water and the currents are gradually intensified, carbon powder is deposited like mist around the positive electrode when the current value exceeds a certain value (the voltage value is variable depending on a distance between the electrodes). The deposited powder suspends in the form of colloid in the water. When electrodes are soaked in the carbon suspension and applied with direct current voltage, the deposited carbon powder is adsorbed on a positive electrode. This electrolytically deposited carbon powder is referred to as electrolytic oxidized carbon powd! er in the present invention. The above treatment is referred to as treatment of electrolytic oxidation. " They must be "Anions Anonymous". :-) Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
OTOH, One might accomplish the same thing
by pressurization with CO2 or a lump of Dry ICE.
 
No pun intended.   :-)
 
I like this example:
 
"EXAMPLE 8

(Revival of battery of imported car):

In a battery mounted in a car manufactured by MERCEDES BENZ (trademark) which was conveyed from German on a ship and landed in Japan, completely deep discharge was proceeded under the influence of ambient air temperature when the ship passed the equator during transportation, so that the battery could not be used nor charged. A trial was made to revive the battery which could not be used because of the deep discharge. A total amount of 250 cc of a carbon suspension was supplied in each cell of a battery (almost 100 AH) of a 4.5 liter displacement engine of the car manufactured by MERCEDES BENZ which battery could not be charged. The battery was charged with currents of 60A for 15 minutes. When the battery was mounted in the car manufactured by MERCEDES BENZ and the engine was tried to be started, the engine could be started at once. It became clear from the above that the carbon suspension could recover a battery which deeply discharged, by quick charge for a short period of time. "
 
Fred
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 7/29/2006 2:51:05 AM
Subject: [Vo]: Re; Colloidal Carbon Nanoparticles in Waterfuel/Joe Cell

Found this while looking for colloidal carbon as a combustible
Nanocluster "seed" for Waterfuel/Joe Cell pre-treatment.
 
They should burn to CO2 in the ICE.
 
 
5,677,075  Activated lead-acid battery with carbon suspension electrolyte
 
" when water is used as an electrolyte solution to electrolytically oxidize carbon, the pH value of the electrolyte solution shifts to 2 to 3 on the side of acidity. Taking the above fact into consideration, it seems that the original form of acid is carboxylic acid. In case of electrolytic oxidation of carbon, when an electrode made of the carbon material is applied with direct current voltage in water and the currents are gradually intensified, carbon powder is deposited like mist around the positive electrode when the current value exceeds a certain value (the voltage value is variable depending on a distance between the electrodes). The deposited powder suspends in the form of colloid in the water. When electrodes are soaked in the carbon suspension and applied with direct current voltage, the deposited carbon powder is adsorbed on a positive electrode. This electrolytically deposited carbon powder is referred to as electrolytic oxidized carbon powd! er in the present invention. The above treatment is referred to as treatment of electrolytic oxidation. "
 
They must be "Anions Anonymous".    :-)
 
Fred
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 29 05:49:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6TCn81h019137; Sat, 29 Jul 2006 05:49:09 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6TCn0O3019051; Sat, 29 Jul 2006 05:49:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 05:49:00 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-CVTV-Spamfilter: Scanned X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Virus-Scanned: by McAfee Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <001001c6b30d$52798440$0100007f xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: [VO]:Re: Colloidal Carbon Nanoparticles.. Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 07:48:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C6B2E3.50E89D20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: <-Z8g1.A.npE.8k1yEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69896 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C6B2E3.50E89D20 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000D_01C6B2E3.50EA23C0" ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C6B2E3.50EA23C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankFred wrote.. I like this example: "EXAMPLE 8=20 (Revival of battery of imported car):=20 In a battery mounted in a car manufactured by MERCEDES BENZ (trademark) = which was conveyed from German on a ship and landed in Japan, completely = deep discharge was proceeded under the influence of ambient air = temperature when the ship passed the equator during transportation, so = that the battery could not be used nor charged. A trial was made to = revive the battery which could not be used because of the deep = discharge. A total amount of 250 cc of a carbon suspension was supplied = in each cell of a battery (almost 100 AH) of a 4.5 liter displacement = engine of the car manufactured by MERCEDES BENZ which battery could not = be charged. The battery was charged with currents of 60A for 15 minutes. = When the battery was mounted in the car manufactured by MERCEDES BENZ = and the engine was tried to be started, the engine could be started at = once. It became clear from the above that the carbon suspension could = recover a ! battery which deeply discharged, by quick charge for a short = period of time. " Howdy Fred.. Had a little trouble with the translation. Am I correct in = understanding they attributed the total discharge of the battery to = crossing the Equator ? This could be easily verified by experiment. The = 60A charge for 15 minutes on a 100AH battery is the giveaway. . 60 Amps = at 14.4 vdc charge of a 100 AH battery for 15 minutes will result in a = pool of gunk. Again, easy to verify by experiment. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C6B2E3.50EA23C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
Fred wrote..
 
I like this example:
 
"EXAMPLE 8

(Revival of battery of imported car):

In = a=20 battery mounted in a car manufactured by MERCEDES BENZ (trademark) which = was=20 conveyed from German on a ship and landed in Japan, completely deep = discharge=20 was proceeded under the influence of ambient air temperature when the = ship=20 passed the equator during transportation, so that the battery could not = be used=20 nor charged. A trial was made to revive the battery which could not be = used=20 because of the deep discharge. A total amount of 250 cc of a carbon = suspension=20 was supplied in each cell of a battery (almost 100 AH) of a 4.5 liter=20 displacement engine of the car manufactured by MERCEDES BENZ which = battery could=20 not be charged. The battery was charged with currents of 60A for 15 = minutes.=20 When the battery was mounted in the car manufactured by MERCEDES BENZ = and the=20 engine was tried to be started, the engine could be started at once. It = became=20 clear from the above that the carbon suspension could recover a ! = battery which=20 deeply discharged, by quick charge for a short period of time. "
 
Howdy Fred..
 
Had a little trouble with  the translation. Am I correct = in=20 understanding they attributed the total discharge of = the battery to=20 crossing the Equator ? This could be easily verified by experiment. = The 60A=20 charge for 15 minutes on a 100AH battery is the giveaway. . 60 Amps at = 14.4=20 vdc charge of a 100 AH battery for 15 minutes will result in a = pool of=20 gunk. Again, easy to verify by experiment.
 
Richard

 

------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C6B2E3.50EA23C0-- ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C6B2E3.50E89D20 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000b01c6b30d$39a7c1c0$0100007f xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C6B2E3.50E89D20-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 29 06:09:39 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6TD9OT0031696; Sat, 29 Jul 2006 06:09:24 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6TD9Kk5031660; Sat, 29 Jul 2006 06:09:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 06:09:20 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-CVTV-Spamfilter: Scanned X-Virus-Scanned: by Clam Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net X-Virus-Scanned: by McAfee Antivirus on mail.cvtv.net Message-ID: <001d01c6b310$2cb8e040$0100007f xptower> From: "RC Macaulay" To: Subject: [VO]:Re: The Military and Hubbert Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 08:08:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01C6B2E6.2D2F88F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: <0EXoz.A.fuH._31yEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69897 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C6B2E6.2D2F88F0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001A_01C6B2E6.2D2F88F0" ------=_NextPart_001_001A_01C6B2E6.2D2F88F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankJohn Steck wrote.. harumph harumph harumph.... 8^) Richard wrote.. Big oil may also be the stabilizing agent for the world economy and not = the Federal Reserve nor gold. Howdy John, As in the physical sciences, one must keep an open mind else we all wind = up at MIT playing keepaway. The magnitude of the currency represented by = the daily marketing of oil ,is in itself , so profound, that the world = banking industry is fearful of replaciing the dollar with the Euro as = the trading vehicle. Robin correctly identified this tidbit in his post = by mentioning the US holds the world hostage with the printed dollar. Whne drinking Tequila in Texas border cantina, one must be circumspect = as to the atmosphere and environment. Once inside the door, macho plays = a greater role. It is assumed that more than one patron has a weapon of = choice and scouts honor don't play to the audience. Richard ------=_NextPart_001_001A_01C6B2E6.2D2F88F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Blank
John Steck=20 wrote..
 
harumph = harumph=20 harumph.... 8^)
 
Richard wrote..
 
Big oil may also be the stabilizing agent for the world economy and = not the=20 Federal Reserve nor gold.
 
 
Howdy John,
 
As in the physical sciences, one must keep an open mind else we all = wind up=20 at MIT playing keepaway. The magnitude of the currency represented by = the daily=20 marketing of oil ,is in itself , so profound, that the world = banking=20 industry is fearful of replaciing the dollar with the = Euro as the=20 trading vehicle. Robin correctly identified this tidbit in his post=20 by mentioning the US holds the world hostage with the printed = dollar.
 
Whne drinking Tequila in Texas border  cantina, one must be=20 circumspect as to the atmosphere and environment. Once inside the door, = macho=20 plays a greater role. It is assumed that more than one patron has a = weapon of=20 choice and scouts honor don't play to the audience.
 
Richard
 
 
------=_NextPart_001_001A_01C6B2E6.2D2F88F0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C6B2E6.2D2F88F0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="Blank Bkgrd.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <001801c6b310$15fae290$0100007f xptower> R0lGODlhLQAtAID/AP////f39ywAAAAALQAtAEACcAxup8vtvxKQsFon6d02898pGkgiYoCm6sq2 7iqWcmzOsmeXeA7uPJd5CYdD2g9oPF58ygqz+XhCG9JpJGmlYrPXGlfr/Yo/VW45e7amp2tou/lW xo/zX513z+Vt+1n/tiX2pxP4NUhy2FM4xtjIUQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C6B2E6.2D2F88F0-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 29 06:44:47 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6TDiNJE019558; Sat, 29 Jul 2006 06:44:24 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6TDiLLR019513; Sat, 29 Jul 2006 06:44:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 06:44:21 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=ivMylLzVUPjO+N8cesP6cRLLHQzEdg60M9XALVxVWbaB1tY2V/cpQyVQg4Yj+mlGsoRxvd6XBrgW/u2CV0LkgP/E3idw1aPeDwUMBx4jBHlplSd8uizvbrrKLdQmkszKkL7o3VDFoRo/OAH+dBwXi+9irjfdblRqa/WQ97gvSVc= Message-ID: Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 09:44:18 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Reverse Engineered Methernitha In-Reply-To: <3h9lc2hbf97svcm8u2i4ri0fnfscst5g17 4ax.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <3h9lc2hbf97svcm8u2i4ri0fnfscst5g17 4ax.com> Resent-Message-ID: <5iFy6.A.twE.0Y2yEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69898 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 7/28/06, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > >With pictures of the model: > > > >http://website.lineone.net/~aarekhu/elecfg.htm > > What does this have to do with Methernitha? Sorry, that was one of the subpages: http://website.lineone.net/~aarekhu/ is the main page with the pictures. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 29 07:30:35 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6TEUA3V012219; Sat, 29 Jul 2006 07:30:11 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6TEU6mI012176; Sat, 29 Jul 2006 07:30:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 07:30:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <096001c6b31b$7745a660$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex-l" References: <410-2200676298501914 earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 07:29:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69899 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Colloidal Carbon Nanoparticles in Waterfuel/Joe Cell Status: O X-Status: Fred, > When electrodes are soaked in the carbon suspension and applied > with direct current voltage, the deposited carbon powder is > adsorbed on a positive electrode. This electrolytically > deposited carbon powder is referred to as electrolytic oxidized > carbon powder in the present invention. The above treatment is > referred to as treatment of electrolytic oxidation. " > They must be "Anions Anonymous". :-) Interesting ! It should be noted that various forms of stable carbon nanoparticles can be present on many previously used surfaces ;-) ....and these could be involved in several different ways (catalytically) without participating directly in a chemical reaction, so as to become consummed in the process. This requires stability. Of course - if the carbon fully oxidizes to CO2, then it has limited usefulness, and is unimportant for this process, but as you imply: As a colloid - and as a catalytic colloid (with radicals attached) this could prove to be very important. Carbon seems to readily but slowly form into the wll-known "buckyball" structure in an electric field - that is the way they are made. Perhaps --- if one wanted to "jump start" a water-pretreatment cell, then it would be expedient to add a small amount of buckyballs at the start?? Or is that the catch-of-the-day ... ? ... the one which you were "trolling" for on this fine morning ... Jones From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 29 08:15:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6TFFThj002035; Sat, 29 Jul 2006 08:15:30 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6TFFShO002010; Sat, 29 Jul 2006 08:15:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 08:15:27 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <097901c6b321$d19b33e0$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex" Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 08:15:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69900 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Double hybrid Status: O X-Status: For those unfamiliar with the hybrid-waterfuel concept - called the "shandy mode" in Oz ... here is a video from down-under, using their equivalent of a Hydrobooster (onboard electrolyzer). Even using untreated water, this one improves mileage by nearly 50% with no loss of power. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-144759872380414977&q=water+hydrogen It is estimated that about one thousand automobiles worldwide are using this fairly low-tech solution now, and at least four companies (all advertising on the net) manufacture and sell the electrolyzers (some for exorbitant prices) in the USA/Canada alone with others in Europe and Australia. Prices and quality vary considerably, but it is possible to build one cheaply from stuff bought at "Home Despot" (a favorite el-cheapo supply resource for US tinkerers). To complete the picture of eco-consciousness, the hydrobooster should be attached to a small diesel engine burning "BioWillie" or equivalent renewable (and carbon-neutral !) fuel. There is a definite synergy between diesel and a hydrogen "pilot" ... more on BioWillie: http://www.physorg.com/news72750869.html It wouldn't hurt to also add the Prius-type drive train to this combo-hybrid. Diesels are even more efficient when run at constant speed. The average mileage improvement of hydroboosting - on an existing ICE, using untreated water seems to be less than the 45% which is claimed in this video, but there are claims of much more - including using only waterfuel. I would settle for a doubling of mileage as a goal - wouldn't you? alternatively - in a Prius with a biodiesel and hydroboosting but with the same performance - being able to raise the average mileage --> from 45 to 60 MPG would be an achievable, short-term goal - with implications for eliminating foreign oil altogether. The next step in the evolution of this onboard "boosting" of biodiesel is the electrical *pretreatment* of water. This is more complex than it appears at first, but there is a definite advantage. I am convinced from recent experiments that a significant improvement is feasible using ongoing water pretreatment, as opposed to hydroboosting with plain water. However, this would probably demand almost a mini-factory in the trunk to do this for longer trips. H-Prize ahoy! ... ...and now, off to make more "firewater" or is that Preparation-H ? Jones Speaking of "ahoy" what has happened to Knuke, and why isn't he doing this hydrobooster thing ? - being an old Navy salt who inadvertently witnessed the burning of seawater - in one of Uncle's diesels - to the amazement of all... I would like to hear that story again... From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 29 08:47:40 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6TFlRJ5018256; Sat, 29 Jul 2006 08:47:27 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6TFlPUZ018222; Sat, 29 Jul 2006 08:47:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 08:47:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=IZQj8nV0ZxFliSVTxcSGvDt00I+TRfIZ9x4DaDv42p1DvPZBHiYpQEqCjpN+NPeD; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006762915471692 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: RE: [Vo]: Re: Colloidal Carbon Nanoparticles in Waterfuel/Joe Cell Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 09:47:16 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940304669a57c6e51e60fcb58212884c1d3350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.217 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69901 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones, I'm not so sure that CO2 from the air on pre-conditioning, or exhaust gas recycle on an ICE doesn't form reduced carbon Nanoparticles/clusters: CO2 + H2O ----> H+ + HCO3- ---> 2 H+ + CO3 = CO3 = + 3 e- ---> C + 1.5 O2 Please leave the link URLs in a reply. Thanks. :-) > > Of course - if the carbon fully oxidizes to CO2, then it has > limited usefulness, and is unimportant for this process, but as > you imply: As a colloid - and as a catalytic colloid (with > radicals attached) this could prove to be very important. > 5,677,075 http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.htm "As a conclusion, carbon particles in carbon suspension obtained by electrolytic oxidation are endowed with --COOH and --C--O-- groups on the surfaces so as to become electrochemically modified carbon particles. Taking into consideration the fact that the neutral aqueous solution turns to be acidic (for example pH=2-3.5) aqueous solution as electrochemically oxidation proceeds, the carbonyl group probably exists as --COOH. It is also probable that --C--O-- exists as --C--OH, taking the process of the above-described electrochemical reactions into consideration. These --COOH and --C--OH groups play important roles for the dispersion of the carbon particles and the activation of PbO.sup.2 cathodes in lead-acid batteries. Although carbon particles are inherently hydrophobic, the surface of carbon becomes hydrophilic by chemical modification, so that stable suspension can be obtained." Fred > > > [Original Message] > From: Jones Beene > > Fred, > > > When electrodes are soaked in the carbon suspension and applied > > with direct current voltage, the deposited carbon powder is > > adsorbed on a positive electrode. This electrolytically > > deposited carbon powder is referred to as electrolytic oxidized > > carbon powder in the present invention. The above treatment is > > referred to as treatment of electrolytic oxidation. " > > > They must be "Anions Anonymous". :-) > > > Interesting ! > > It should be noted that various forms of stable carbon > nanoparticles can be present on many previously used surfaces ;-) > > ....and these could be involved in several different ways > (catalytically) without participating directly in a chemical > reaction, so as to become consummed in the process. This requires > stability. > > Of course - if the carbon fully oxidizes to CO2, then it has > limited usefulness, and is unimportant for this process, but as > you imply: As a colloid - and as a catalytic colloid (with > radicals attached) this could prove to be very important. > > Jones > > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 29 09:42:42 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6TGgCnD014824; Sat, 29 Jul 2006 09:42:12 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6TGg86I014790; Sat, 29 Jul 2006 09:42:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 09:42:08 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=GYRHUzGvXULs8xkfCecdilP9Y9qxdoaPy8dj2Y5PAFj21a4yh0RhwuchHtMkjYNo; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220067629164146835 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: RE: [Vo]: Re: Colloidal Carbon Nanoparticles in Waterfuel/Joe Cell Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 10:41:46 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940100c91aaedd54c27f60f439d68c50961350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.163 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69902 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: IOW, if you use a battery instead of sunlight CO2 can be reduced to C and O2. Nature does it when building fats, oils, and Lignin in plants. http://www.osti.gov/bridge/servlets/purl/752152-JsQXqJ/native/752152.pdf "Bibliography. E. Fujita, Photochemical Carbon Dioxide Reduction with Metal Complexes, Coordination Chemistry Review, vol. 18.5186, 373-384, 1999; N. Sutin, C. Creutz. and E. Fujita, Photo-Induced Generation qf Dihydrogen and Reduction of Carbon Dioxide Using Transition Metal Complexes, Comments Inorg, Chem. vol. 19,67-92, 1997; T. Inui, M. Anpo. K. Izui, S. Yanagida, and T. Yamaguchi (Eds.) Advances in Chemical Conversions for Mitigating Carbon Dioxide, Studies in Surface Science and Catalysis, Vol. 114, Amsterdam, Elsevier, 1998; E. Fujita, L. R. Furenlid, and M. W. Renner, Dzrect XANES Evidence for Charge Transfer in Co-CO2 Complexes, J. Am. Chem. Sot., vol 119, 4.549-4550, 1997." > > [Original Message] > From: Frederick Sparber > Date: 7/29/2006 9:48:04 AM > Subject: RE: [Vo]: Re: Colloidal Carbon Nanoparticles in Waterfuel/Joe Cell > > > Jones, > > I'm not so sure that CO2 from the air on pre-conditioning, or exhaust gas > recycle on > an ICE doesn't form reduced carbon Nanoparticles/clusters: > > CO2 + H2O ----> H+ + HCO3- ---> 2 H+ + CO3 = > > CO3 = + 3 e- ---> C + 1.5 O2 > > 5,677,075 > > http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.htm > > "As a conclusion, carbon particles in carbon suspension obtained by > electrolytic oxidation are endowed with --COOH and --C--O-- groups on the > surfaces so as to become electrochemically modified carbon particles. > Taking into consideration the fact that the neutral aqueous solution turns > to be acidic (for example pH=2-3.5) aqueous solution as electrochemically > oxidation proceeds, the carbonyl group probably exists as --COOH. It is > also probable that --C--O-- exists as --C--OH, taking the process of the > above-described electrochemical reactions into consideration. These --COOH > and --C--OH groups play important roles for the dispersion of the carbon > particles and the activation of PbO.sup.2 cathodes in lead-acid batteries. > Although carbon particles are inherently hydrophobic, the surface of carbon > becomes hydrophilic by chemical modification, so that stable suspension can > be obtained." > > Fred > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 29 16:45:57 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6TNjjvW007719; Sat, 29 Jul 2006 16:45:45 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6TNjeve007686; Sat, 29 Jul 2006 16:45:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 16:45:40 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: Subject: Re: [Vo]: The Military and Hubbert Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 09:45:33 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <4m9jc2hl2gnbji73f55hodfb17r545opub 4ax.com> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta01ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.66.24] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Sat, 29 Jul 2006 23:45:32 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6TNjX2e007616 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69903 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to John Steck's message of Fri, 28 Jul 2006 23:30:11 -0500: Hi, [snip] >I know picking a side is contentious, but I disagree entirely with that >statement. I will not argue the point that we are too reliant on a single >fuel source, that this addiction is dumping excessive C02 into the >environment, that this dumping is very bad, and that it has a measurable >negative effect on the thermal dynamics of the planet (crapping in our own >fishbowl). But it is a hard argument to maintain that the increase in >geological events is direct result. Cyclical warming and cooling has been >going on long before long before we show up in the fossil record. By "both" I meant both "oil depletion" and "global warming". The strongest possible link I can see between global warming and e.g. pole shift is melting of the Greenland and Antarctic ice caps which would result in a mass redistribution of the crust, which in turn would result in the crust slipping relative to the core as a consequence of conservation of angular momentum. >...ok, I am bumming myself out now. sorry. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 29 18:38:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6U1cJCb027505; Sat, 29 Jul 2006 18:38:19 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6U1cGRs027483; Sat, 29 Jul 2006 18:38:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 18:38:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Reverse Engineered Methernitha Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 11:38:05 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <3h9lc2hbf97svcm8u2i4ri0fnfscst5g17@4ax.com> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta01ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.66.24] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Sun, 30 Jul 2006 01:38:05 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6U1c54E027420 Resent-Message-ID: <5GczQD.A.StG.I2AzEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69904 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Terry Blanton's message of Sat, 29 Jul 2006 09:44:18 -0400: Hi, [snip] Thanks. Does anyone know if Paul Potter's model has been built and tested? >On 7/28/06, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > >> >With pictures of the model: >> > >> >http://website.lineone.net/~aarekhu/elecfg.htm >> >> What does this have to do with Methernitha? > >Sorry, that was one of the subpages: > >http://website.lineone.net/~aarekhu/ > >is the main page with the pictures. > >Terry Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 29 18:38:48 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6U1cW8o027650; Sat, 29 Jul 2006 18:38:33 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6U1cTRs027622; Sat, 29 Jul 2006 18:38:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 18:38:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=elrbJqaNhuy276HXbwpo/nQ0oC06U7B/AQs+dGNPyqJymjGjKRlQI+hIf9vb+FfM; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006703013816690 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 19:38:16 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940243eeb4f4733209534aedf70ce7a2706350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.34 Resent-Message-ID: <6KeepD.A.UvG.U2AzEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69905 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII John Steck's message of Fri, 28 Jul 2006 23:30:11 -0500: To wit: > >I know picking a side is contentious, but I disagree entirely with that >statement. I will not argue the point that we are too reliant on a single >fuel source, that this addiction is dumping excessive C02 into the >environment, that this dumping is very bad, and that it has a measurable >negative effect on the thermal dynamics of the planet (crapping in our own >fishbowl). But it is a hard argument to maintain that the increase in >geological events is direct result. Cyclical warming and cooling has been >going on long before long before we show up in the fossil record. > Here's how to start cleaning your fishbowl, John. :-) Photo-voltaic or Windmill in your Windy City suburb to run it? Fred 1983 Patent by Chevron Research Corp. San Francisco US 4,389,288 "The electrochemical gasification reaction of carbonaceous materials by anodic oxidation in an aqueous acidic electrolyte to produce oxides of carbon at the anode and hydrogen at the cathode of an electrolysis cell is catalyzed by the use of an iron catalyst." "As acknowledged in U.S. Pat. No. 4,226,683, the principal problem in the past use of this principle for commercial production of hydrogen, was the slow rate of the electrochemical reaction of coal or carbon and water. It has now been found that iron, when added to an aqueous acidic electrolyte containing the carbonaceous material, and preferably iron in the +3 valence state, catalyzes the rate of reaction and assists in obtaining more complete oxidation for the electrochemical oxidation of the carbonaceous material at the anode thus making the commercial production of hydrogen or method of electrowinning commercially feasible." "The carbonaceous materials suitable for use in accordance with the present invention include a wide variety of material such as bituminous coal, chars made from coal, lignite, peat, active carbons, coke, carbon blacks, graphite; wood or other lignocellulosic materials including forest products, such as wood waste, wood chips, sawdust, wood dust, bark, shavings, wood pellets; including various biomass materials as land or marine vegetation or its waste after other processing, including grasses, various cuttings, crops and crop wastes, coffee grounds, leaves, straw, pits, hulls, shells, stems, husks, cobs and waste materials including animal manure; sewage sludge resulting from municipal treatment plants, and plastics or the scraps or wastes formed in the production of plastic such as polyethylene, cellulose acetate and the like. Thus, it is seen that substantially any fuel or waste material whether a liquid, such as oil, a gas, such as methane or other hydrocarbon or waste material containing carbon, with the exception of CO.sub.2, provides a suitable source of carbonaceous material for use according to this invention." "The particular apparatus used to carry out the electrolytic oxidation of carbonaceous materials is not critical. Substantially, the same apparatus and techniques that are utilized in the electrolytic decomposition of water as well as those described in U.S. Pat. Nos. 4,268,363, 4,226,683 and 4,233,132 which references are incorporated herein by reference, can be used with the method of this invention. Any selection of appropriate changes in use of materials and/or technique is well within the skill of those versed in the art to which this invention applies." ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

 John Steck's message of Fri, 28 Jul 2006 23:30:11
-0500:
To wit:  
>
>I know picking a side is contentious, but I disagree entirely with that
>statement. I will not argue the point that we are too reliant on a single
>fuel source, that this addiction is dumping excessive C02 into the
>environment, that this dumping is very bad, and that it has a measurable
>negative effect on the thermal dynamics of the planet (crapping in our own
>fishbowl). But it is a hard argument to maintain that the increase in
>geological events is direct result. Cyclical warming and cooling has been
>going on long before long before we show up in the fossil record.
>
 
Here's how to start cleaning your fishbowl, John.  :-)
 
Photo-voltaic or Windmill in your Windy City suburb to run it?
 
Fred
 
1983 Patent by Chevron Research Corp. San Francisco
 
US 4,389,288
 
"The electrochemical gasification reaction of carbonaceous materials by anodic oxidation in an aqueous acidic electrolyte to produce oxides of carbon at the anode and hydrogen at the cathode of an electrolysis cell is catalyzed by the use of an iron catalyst."
 
"As acknowledged in U.S. Pat. No. 4,226,683, the principal problem in the past use of this principle for commercial production of hydrogen, was the slow rate of the electrochemical reaction of coal or carbon and water. It has now been found that iron, when added to an aqueous acidic electrolyte containing the carbonaceous material, and preferably iron in the +3 valence state, catalyzes the rate of reaction and assists in obtaining more complete oxidation for the electrochemical oxidation of the carbonaceous material at the anode thus making the commercial production of hydrogen or method of electrowinning commercially feasible."
 
"The carbonaceous materials suitable for use in accordance with the present invention include a wide variety of material such as bituminous coal, chars made from coal, lignite, peat, active carbons, coke, carbon blacks, graphite; wood or other lignocellulosic materials including forest products, such as wood waste, wood chips, sawdust, wood dust, bark, shavings, wood pellets; including various biomass materials as land or marine vegetation or its waste after other processing, including grasses, various cuttings, crops and crop wastes, coffee grounds, leaves, straw, pits, hulls, shells, stems, husks, cobs and waste materials including animal manure; sewage sludge resulting from municipal treatment plants, and plastics or the scraps or wastes formed in the production of plastic such as polyethylene, cellulose acetate and the like. Thus, it is seen that substantially any fuel or waste material whether a liquid, such as oil, a gas, such as methane or other hydrocarbon or waste material containing carbon, with the exception of CO.sub.2, provides a suitable source of carbonaceous material for use according to this invention."

"The particular apparatus used to carry out the electrolytic oxidation of carbonaceous materials is not critical. Substantially, the same apparatus and techniques that are utilized in the electrolytic decomposition of water as well as those described in U.S. Pat. Nos. 4,268,363, 4,226,683 and 4,233,132 which references are incorporated herein by reference, can be used with the method of this invention. Any selection of appropriate changes in use of materials and/or technique is well within the skill of those versed in the art to which this invention applies."
 
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 29 18:45:31 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6U1jGfo031368; Sat, 29 Jul 2006 18:45:17 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6U1jFGW031352; Sat, 29 Jul 2006 18:45:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 18:45:15 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=oVGJacGqsWlSp6laVFXSKtMxU5N9pH0S4LBii8fAaC1oJS9GRv+X9CswKpWIc4sh; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006703014510104 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: RE: [Vo]: Re: Hydrogen from Biomass and Coal Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 19:45:10 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940db9963af753dd85930e64ed157139fa1350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.34 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69906 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 7/29/2006 7:39:17 PM Subject: [Vo]: John Steck's message of Fri, 28 Jul 2006 23:30:11 -0500: To wit: > >I know picking a side is contentious, but I disagree entirely with that >statement. I will not argue the point that we are too reliant on a single >fuel source, that this addiction is dumping excessive C02 into the >environment, that this dumping is very bad, and that it has a measurable >negative effect on the thermal dynamics of the planet (crapping in our own >fishbowl). But it is a hard argument to maintain that the increase in >geological events is direct result. Cyclical warming and cooling has been >going on long before long before we show up in the fossil record. > Here's how to start cleaning your fishbowl, John. :-) Photo-voltaic or Windmill in your Windy City suburb to run it? Fred 1983 Patent by Chevron Research Corp. San Francisco US 4,389,288 "The electrochemical gasification reaction of carbonaceous materials by anodic oxidation in an aqueous acidic electrolyte to produce oxides of carbon at the anode and hydrogen at the cathode of an electrolysis cell is catalyzed by the use of an iron catalyst." "As acknowledged in U.S. Pat. No. 4,226,683, the principal problem in the past use of this principle for commercial production of hydrogen, was the slow rate of the electrochemical reaction of coal or carbon and water. It has now been found that iron, when added to an aqueous acidic electrolyte containing the carbonaceous material, and preferably iron in the +3 valence state, catalyzes the rate of reaction and assists in obtaining more complete oxidation for the electrochemical oxidation of the carbonaceous material at the anode thus making the commercial production of hydrogen or method of electrowinning commercially feasible." "The carbonaceous materials suitable for use in accordance with the present invention include a wide variety of material such as bituminous coal, chars made from coal, lignite, peat, active carbons, coke, carbon blacks, graphite; wood or other lignocellulosic materials including forest products, such as wood waste, wood chips, sawdust, wood dust, bark, shavings, wood pellets; including various biomass materials as land or marine vegetation or its waste after other processing, including grasses, various cuttings, crops and crop wastes, coffee grounds, leaves, straw, pits, hulls, shells, stems, husks, cobs and waste materials including animal manure; sewage sludge resulting from municipal treatment plants, and plastics or the scraps or wastes formed in the production of plastic such as polyethylene, cellulose acetate and the like. Thus, it is seen that substantially any fuel or waste material whether a liquid, such as oil, a gas, such as methane or other ! hydrocarbon or waste material containing carbon, with the exception of CO.sub.2, provides a suitable source of carbonaceous material for use according to this invention." "The particular apparatus used to carry out the electrolytic oxidation of carbonaceous materials is not critical. Substantially, the same apparatus and techniques that are utilized in the electrolytic decomposition of water as well as those described in U.S. Pat. Nos. 4,268,363, 4,226,683 and 4,233,132 which references are incorporated herein by reference, can be used with the method of this invention. Any selection of appropriate changes in use of materials and/or technique is well within the skill of those versed in the art to which this invention applies." ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 7/29/2006 7:39:17 PM
Subject: [Vo]:

 John Steck's message of Fri, 28 Jul 2006 23:30:11
-0500:
To wit:  
>
>I know picking a side is contentious, but I disagree entirely with that
>statement. I will not argue the point that we are too reliant on a single
>fuel source, that this addiction is dumping excessive C02 into the
>environment, that this dumping is very bad, and that it has a measurable
>negative effect on the thermal dynamics of the planet (crapping in our own
>fishbowl). But it is a hard argument to maintain that the increase in
>geological events is direct result. Cyclical warming and cooling has been
>going on long before long before we show up in the fossil record.
>
 
Here's how to start cleaning your fishbowl, John.  :-)
 
Photo-voltaic or Windmill in your Windy City suburb to run it?
 
Fred
 
1983 Patent by Chevron Research Corp. San Francisco
 
US 4,389,288
 
"The electrochemical gasification reaction of carbonaceous materials by anodic oxidation in an aqueous acidic electrolyte to produce oxides of carbon at the anode and hydrogen at the cathode of an electrolysis cell is catalyzed by the use of an iron catalyst."
 
"As acknowledged in U.S. Pat. No. 4,226,683, the principal problem in the past use of this principle for commercial production of hydrogen, was the slow rate of the electrochemical reaction of coal or carbon and water. It has now been found that iron, when added to an aqueous acidic electrolyte containing the carbonaceous material, and preferably iron in the +3 valence state, catalyzes the rate of reaction and assists in obtaining more complete oxidation for the electrochemical oxidation of the carbonaceous material at the anode thus making the commercial production of hydrogen or method of electrowinning commercially feasible."
 
"The carbonaceous materials suitable for use in accordance with the present invention include a wide variety of material such as bituminous coal, chars made from coal, lignite, peat, active carbons, coke, carbon blacks, graphite; wood or other lignocellulosic materials including forest products, such as wood waste, wood chips, sawdust, wood dust, bark, shavings, wood pellets; including various biomass materials as land or marine vegetation or its waste after other processing, including grasses, various cuttings, crops and crop wastes, coffee grounds, leaves, straw, pits, hulls, shells, stems, husks, cobs and waste materials including animal manure; sewage sludge resulting from municipal treatment plants, and plastics or the scraps or wastes formed in the production of plastic such as polyethylene, cellulose acetate and the like. Thus, it is seen that substantially any fuel or waste material whether a liquid, such as oil, a gas, such as methane or other ! hydrocarbon or waste material containing carbon, with the exception of CO.sub.2, provides a suitable source of carbonaceous material for use according to this invention."

"The particular apparatus used to carry out the electrolytic oxidation of carbonaceous materials is not critical. Substantially, the same apparatus and techniques that are utilized in the electrolytic decomposition of water as well as those described in U.S. Pat. Nos. 4,268,363, 4,226,683 and 4,233,132 which references are incorporated herein by reference, can be used with the method of this invention. Any selection of appropriate changes in use of materials and/or technique is well within the skill of those versed in the art to which this invention applies."
 
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 29 20:16:54 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6U3GS5m015215; Sat, 29 Jul 2006 20:16:29 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6U3GNFe015162; Sat, 29 Jul 2006 20:16:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 20:16:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 23:16:17 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net Message-Id: <8C8819DA7D81DAE-E58-EF66 mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18766 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.133 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69907 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Water Cell Ready Status: O X-Status: I am having trouble posting. I hope this makes it through at least once: You can view the 16 plate cell at: http://www.geocities.com/terry1094/JC1.JPG I am open to suggestions on how to proceed. Each plate has dual electrodes; so, many configurations are possible. If I don't hear from anyone, tomorrow I will energize only the end anode and cathode plates submersed in distilled water for one week to replicate Jones' effort. I have also purchased some small two-cycle engines to test for combustion independent of petrol. :-) http://www.geocities.com/terry1094/JC2.JPG Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Jul 29 23:53:22 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6U6r1jK012848; Sat, 29 Jul 2006 23:53:01 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6U6qwvq012813; Sat, 29 Jul 2006 23:52:58 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 23:52:57 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 16:52:49 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta02sl.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.66.24] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Sun, 30 Jul 2006 06:52:48 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6U6qnut012759 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69908 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Neutrons? Status: O X-Status: Hi, Can anyone corroborate the last statement in the following short quote from US4,454,850? "Typically the voltage between the filament and the anode will be 40 Kv with a superimposed ripple voltage of 2-4 Kv. Under these conditions, the electron bombardment of the anode produces a 360.degree. band of radiation indicated by the dotted lines 182 in FIG. 14. As indicated by these dotted lines the band of radiation fans downwardly from the horizontal plane of the flat target surface of the radiation tube anode through a scattering angle of approximately 15.degree.. The radiation comprises high energy photons of wave length less than 10.sup.-10 metres. Tests indicate that the radiation intensity from the tube is of the order of 3,000 Roentgen/hour. The creation of this high flux of photons is associated with release of large numbers of neutrons within the tungsten target of the radiation tube and the tube therefore also acts as a pulsed source of neutrons which radiate with the high energy photons in the radiation beam." Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 30 04:33:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6UBWm6L009072; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 04:32:48 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6UBWkU3009052; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 04:32:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 04:32:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=PwW1zPFdRRWh6NXYXb7K0czPVnqVa2omSfpSmLwYFzYSGvk4dLQ8I0mBDedX9YeX; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220067030113233320 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 05:32:33 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9402a955e5284ac7b0a9fc1ace68ee8f7f6350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.167 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69909 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Aqueous-Electrolytic CO2 Catalyzed H2 Producrtion Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Generalities: CO2 dissolved in water undergoes hydrolysis to H+ and HCO3- and 2 H+ and CO3= ions. 1, CO2 + 2 H+ + 2 e- ------> HCOOH (Formic Acid) 2, CO2 + 2 H+ + 2 e- -----> CO + H2O However, Aqueous Formic Acid can react with a metal (M): M++ plus 2 (H+ + CO OH-) + 2 e- <----> M(COOH)2 (Metal Formate) + 2 H And the low-temperature-favored aqueous Shift Reaction CO + H2O ---> CO2aq + H2 should start a cycle in H2O that is driven by electrolysis of water that contains CO2. Fred ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

Generalities:
 
CO2 dissolved in water undergoes hydrolysis to H+ and HCO3-
and 2 H+ and CO3= ions.
 
1, CO2 + 2 H+ + 2 e-  ------>  HCOOH  (Formic Acid)
 
2, CO2 + 2 H+ + 2 e-    -----> CO + H2O
 
However, Aqueous Formic Acid can react with a metal (M):
 
M++ plus 2 (H+ + CO OH-) + 2 e-  <----> M(COOH)2 (Metal Formate) + 2 H
 
And  the low-temperature-favored aqueous Shift Reaction
 
CO + H2O ---> CO2aq + H2 should start a cycle in H2O that
is driven by electrolysis of water that contains CO2.
 
Fred
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 30 05:05:38 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6UC5KTY029286; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 05:05:21 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6UC5HaX029255; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 05:05:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 05:05:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=qt2kJUSpfMgn3li/aNYE8Zoz8H2nwBwbHU7a7X8+oTrXxLQSqueUwGtYyh58zA1+GvkwH/WrJMYGoCclOTqOrnBwYo0lVoCkYwY3L0R+s0WqEq8wHu2p1xCOQBzkgX0Hb4eUN+QDVEyJ8s/lDL5Zup4k2aWmd2XA6q6eGimmZxQ= Message-ID: Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 08:04:07 -0400 From: "John Berry" To: vortex-L eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: [Humor] UR(L) Kiddin'! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_36522_5322904.1154261047584" Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69910 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_Part_36522_5322904.1154261047584 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline A few others: http://www.dollarsexchange.com http://www.kidsexchange.net http://www.gasheating.co.uk http://www.nice-tits.org http://web.archive.org/web/20021207085002/www.nice-tits.org/pics.html ------=_Part_36522_5322904.1154261047584 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline A few others:

http://www.dollarsexchange.com
http://www.kidsexchange.net
http://www.gasheating.co.uk
http://www.nice-tits.org http://web.archive.org/web/20021207085002/www.nice-tits.org/pics.html

------=_Part_36522_5322904.1154261047584-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 30 06:25:19 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6UDOrnK016382; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 06:24:54 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6UDOm0f016290; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 06:24:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 06:24:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <002601c6b3da$19e68ce0$0600a8c0 nixlaptop> From: "Nick Palmer" To: References: <8C8819DA7D81DAE-E58-EF66 mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 14:14:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69911 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Water Cell Ready Status: O X-Status: Terry wrote <> Aha! - the unfocussed photo so familiar to the UFO enthusiast! From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 30 06:39:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6UDcj8k026537; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 06:38:49 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6UDcagX026403; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 06:38:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 06:38:35 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <001101c6b3dd$7213c380$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 06:38:29 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69912 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Neutrons? Status: O X-Status: Robin > The creation of this high flux of photons is > associated with release of large numbers of neutrons within the > tungsten target.... ... what is a "large numbers of neutrons"? Rather subjective, no? At the same voltage, a Farnsworth Fusor can produce about a hundred thousand neutrons per second. That sounds "large", but it is at least five orders of magnitude below breakeven. Given that the Fusor results are rock solid, going back thirty years, those numbers can be used as an objective basis for determining "how large is large" ... so the statement could be true, if the acutal numbers are in the same range as the Fusor, yet still be not even close to breakeven - if that was an intended implication. Half-full or half-empty? Jones From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 30 07:10:45 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6UEAJEu016989; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 07:10:20 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6UEAChd016900; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 07:10:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 07:10:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=aLI3fPD5c6zKmQYgf/PemHbcIcwLpws6/VY5W96pKFC131c+XfGezDD3hiFm45P95kiVpQdBJ9Jb/bCHiV//p/MH5RyNAI71ffVxYGJFRL0e4djpUdipBXyh5cgqa0AVFOjNqJdLKkd1gZ1eQrU4ZxmhDm/fhpYMINaxrw+AME0= Message-ID: Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 10:10:10 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Water Cell Ready In-Reply-To: <002601c6b3da$19e68ce0$0600a8c0 nixlaptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <8C8819DA7D81DAE-E58-EF66 mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> <002601c6b3da$19e68ce0$0600a8c0 nixlaptop> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69913 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 7/30/06, Nick Palmer wrote: > http://www.geocities.com/terry1094/JC2.JPG >> > > Aha! - the unfocussed photo so familiar to the UFO enthusiast! Yes, you caught me. It was simply a cardboard cutout of an engine. :-( Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 30 07:30:30 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6UEU9Td030398; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 07:30:18 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6UERSVc028897; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 07:27:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 07:27:28 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=hR35mpMn3STJNKWI6tBYyIAs6q6YWVWywxjTTMkqB86PHvUr9YLXLpoTIhj83+ouTAnYowjT15FrHlXz5/ht4hyc4CcrvAab3Xcl08BMIGfLBN9t8EmE6eE5pNfds1VGoBAyN2s0Llkf7R1xXDrby9hyeFZnUuKaVxrL5sWSXSc= Message-ID: Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 10:27:14 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Water Cell Ready In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <8C8819DA7D81DAE-E58-EF66 mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> <002601c6b3da$19e68ce0$0600a8c0 nixlaptop> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69914 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 7/30/06, Terry Blanton wrote: > On 7/30/06, Nick Palmer wrote: > > > http://www.geocities.com/terry1094/JC2.JPG >> > > > > Aha! - the unfocussed photo so familiar to the UFO enthusiast! > > Yes, you caught me. It was simply a cardboard cutout of an engine. :-( Hopefully, you will now find this image more convincing: http://www.geocities.com/terry1094/JC2.JPG Terry I want to believe! From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 30 10:42:59 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6UHgeq7024961; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 10:42:41 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6UHgaGp024916; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 10:42:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 10:42:34 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 13:42:26 -0400 From: hohlrauml6d netscape.net Message-Id: <8C88216A7E1D69D-174-F774 mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Netscape WebMail 18766 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.170.131 X-Spam-Flag: NO Resent-Message-ID: <6DX5G.A.xEG.J-OzEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69915 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Joe Cell Running Status: O X-Status: Trying again. It bounced on gmail: Well here's the setup: http://www.geocities.com/terry1094/JC_Setup_small.JPG It's being fired by a wall wart rated at 6VDC which is actually putting out 9VDC with considerable ripple. Probably just a xfmr and a rect. Only the end plates are energized. The one facing the camera is the anode. The container is a teflon coated bread pan confirmed to be fully electrically insulated. It holds roughly 1/2 gal of water with the cell. There was no current flow in the cell until I poured in the distilled water and I immediately saw it rise to 0.8 mA. After 5 min. it was up to 1.5 mA and seemed fairly steady. I'm keeping a log. I plan to charge the water for 1 week if I can keep the cats out of it. There will be plenty available if Vorts want a sample. Terry PS Interesting note: After about 10 min., the only bubble formation was on the anode near the base at the teflon. Aggregrated microbubbles? From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 30 11:02:33 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6UI2Dn8006486; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 11:02:14 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6UI2BWB006460; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 11:02:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 11:02:11 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=pnZ0NMHEjhp8L1kv5r4S0xM9CnobbBCsBafmysMipqSgOtSTxJet/C1e+JW1JBwze3+No68TaXoeak/3Shgjju2kkc54sCJ2TwhG589Dy9T/2znGqcNICJHEA9ZoQOo9Rq+5oAB7CymUtE5/sPAGNEC/QgSSdAOhThySj+xxaCU= Message-ID: Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 14:02:09 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Joe Cell Running In-Reply-To: <8C88216A7E1D69D-174-F774 mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <8C88216A7E1D69D-174-F774 mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69916 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 7/30/06, hohlrauml6d netscape.net > Well here's the setup: > > http://www.geocities.com/terry1094/JC_Setup_small.JPG > > It's being fired by a wall wart rated at 6VDC which is actually putting > out 9VDC with considerable ripple. 9.15 VDC and steady. 21.7 mVAC according to my digital meter. I'm using the analog meter for the current measurement. Which, by the way, dropped to 1.3 mV at 1:30 pm EDT. > PS Interesting note: After about 10 min., the only bubble formation > was on the anode near the base at the teflon. Aggregrated > microbubbles? Not only are they forming on the bottom near the anode; but, they are also forming on the vertical pan surface on the anode side. Nothing evident near the cathode. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 30 11:03:46 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6UI36pu006960; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 11:03:07 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6UI31SJ006909; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 11:03:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 11:03:01 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=SYOXAE1FFs5M8Jk3YHpeZfliYZn2Je+l2i1eVnx5zMYXExgBK/0/95UyZJk1u8vdTjCeVzik78jGrnEtgvgjuFsN8EMiqnJnCfNsMhatEjkLP/PORRg+Vqdn2E9PIc5pwlMDoMN5z3lJysBdMgEPKyKDEIwfYL0v5vFuB3scXCQ= Message-ID: Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 14:03:00 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Joe Cell Running In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <8C88216A7E1D69D-174-F774 mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69917 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 7/30/06, Terry Blanton wrote: > Which, by the > way, dropped to 1.3 mV at 1:30 pm EDT. mA sheesh! From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 30 13:31:37 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6UKUSjL005989; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 13:31:31 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6UKDG22026917; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 13:13:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 13:13:15 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <00b001c6b414$8dd37930$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: "vortex-l" References: <410-220067629164146835 earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 13:12:58 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: <2U8xwD.A.XkG.ZLRzEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69918 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Colloidal Carbon Nanoparticles in Waterfuel/Joe Cell Status: O X-Status: Fred, Did you know that when PTFE coated stir bars are exposed to a solution of solvated electrons in liquid ammonia - the "impervious" surface of the stir bar is converted to carbon ? One wonders if H2O (with sovlated electrons therein) can perfom similar magic, but over an extended time frame, especially if some NaCl has been added to increase conductivity ? Jones From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 30 14:39:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6ULNUxP007638; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 14:23:31 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6ULNMa8007533; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 14:23:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 14:23:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Aqueous-Electrolytic CO2 Catalyzed H2 Producrtion From: patrick vbpl.fsnet.co.uk Reply-to: patrick vbpl.fsnet.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Sender-IP-Address: 195.92.168.167 X-Mailer: Nameko 0.10.0 Message-Id: Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 22:23:01 +0100 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69919 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: With reference to Fred's latest musings. Many moons ago I posted the following to the Y! Viktor Schauberger group. I got zero replies :-( If anyone is interested in the process described by VS, I could attempt to summarise. Rgds, Patrick ---quote--- When I first read Coats' "The Energy Evolution", I skimmed through the last section of chapter 8 - Petrol (Gasoline) From Water – as it seemed a little far fetched (to say the least). Since then, I've learnt that CO2 can be electrocatalytically reduced to yield methyl alcohol. Now, methanol is obviously a useful fuel... The process VS described is sufficiently similar to that stated in some patents that I have recently read (US 5,559,638 & US 5,928,806) to make me think again, although these modern patents rely on electrical current to catalyse the reaction. My question to the group is whether anyone has attempted a direct replication of VS's procedure (as described by Coats) to create a combustible substance from water? ---ends--- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 30 14:48:51 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6ULmQp2022968; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 14:48:27 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6ULmOYa022944; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 14:48:24 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 14:48:24 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Nd9PfF6snrEKIGAPo89Tbo64jx3D153qrXrJf5JGUlTjO0vsRilX2PhDw4lZLgmQNOD7Al6kGY7fV6ViqdrYzI/jj4hno0CxvYLm+gJ3KZ1Vr6bdcMKRidx8WNe5BvUilaqWzX6RE/8jKb7apxejiw8uzrgkwzzK33U42XOueeU= Message-ID: Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 17:48:21 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Joe Cell Running In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <8C88216A7E1D69D-174-F774 mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com> Resent-Message-ID: <1PDlxC.A.ZmF.nkSzEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69920 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 7/30/06, Terry Blanton wrote: > 9.15 VDC and steady. 21.7 mVAC according to my digital meter. I'm > using the analog meter for the current measurement. Which, by the > way, dropped to 1.3 mV at 1:30 pm EDT. The cell current is now 0.9 mA and holding (5:00pm EDT). I tried zapping both control and treated water and didn't notice a significant difference. Jones thinks 20 hours is the magic time. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 30 15:29:01 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6UMSfUb020704; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 15:28:41 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6UMScsR020686; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 15:28:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 15:28:38 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=k3KB28cFYkYr0cBpyzcoGsIAY9s4yCiCeCDIvIBbLkXvozV1EyoxnwmjWgccPsr0; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220067030222819732 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: RE: [Vo]: Re: Aqueous-Electrolytic CO2 Catalyzed H2 Producrtion Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 16:28:19 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940364feafebba1949d6cf9df2df35a1f7a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.165.57 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69921 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: US 5,559,638 is for a wide angle lens Patrick. :-) This one works better. Fred http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.htm 5,599,638 > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 7/30/2006 3:24:21 PM > Subject: [Vo]: Re: Aqueous-Electrolytic CO2 Catalyzed H2 Producrtion > > > > With reference to Fred's latest musings. > > Many moons ago I posted the following to the Y! Viktor Schauberger group. I got zero replies :-( > > If anyone is interested in the process described by VS, I could attempt to summarise. > > Rgds, > Patrick > > > ---quote--- > When I first read Coats' "The Energy Evolution", I skimmed through > the last section of chapter 8 - Petrol (Gasoline) From Water – as it > seemed a little far fetched (to say the least). > > Since then, I've learnt that CO2 can be electrocatalytically reduced > to yield methyl alcohol. Now, methanol is obviously a useful fuel... > > The process VS described is sufficiently similar to that stated in > some patents that I have recently read (US 5,559,638 & US 5,928,806) > to make me think again, although these modern patents rely on > electrical current to catalyse the reaction. > > My question to the group is whether anyone has attempted a direct > replication of VS's procedure (as described by Coats) to create a > combustible substance from water? > ---ends--- > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 30 16:50:32 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6UNo7hW010628; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 16:50:12 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6UNYeCC000343; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 16:34:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 16:34:40 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=kPpznqybEsFvxhzn3Pxume/R6UyIGkB7v+4flnO74XbNEmbv+DdxMrmUfYAuR/6+; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006703023343229 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: RE: [Vo]: Re: Aqueous-Electrolytic CO2 Catalyzed H2 Producrtion Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 17:34:03 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94060ae0fc9846aee77503b2d063d79d26f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.248 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69922 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Patrick. US 5,928,806 suggests to me that a pipe inside a pipe insulated with an insulating reducing bushing (inside a coupling at the top) filled with water and pressurized with CO2 should produce a variety of combustible organics ranging from Formic Acid HCOOH, Acetaldehyde CH2OH, Acetic Acid CH3-COOH, Methanol CH3OH, and Methane CH4, along with H, H2, and OH. US 5,599,638 is a bit more sophisticated. You can put a spigot at the bottom to drain off the water-soluble organics. But watch out for Formic (ant bite & bee sting ) Acid. Fred > > "My question to the group is whether anyone has attempted a direct > replication of VS's procedure (as described by Coats) to create a > combustible substance from water?" > ---ends--- > > Patrick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 30 16:50:44 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6UNo7hY010628; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 16:50:24 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6UNdnLH004178; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 16:39:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 16:39:49 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Neutrons? Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 09:34:38 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <001101c6b3dd$7213c380$6401a8c0@NuDell> In-Reply-To: <001101c6b3dd$7213c380$6401a8c0 NuDell> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta03ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.66.24] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Sun, 30 Jul 2006 23:34:38 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6UNde98004028 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69923 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Jones Beene's message of Sun, 30 Jul 2006 06:38:29 -0700: Hi, Actually, considering that tungsten forms the anode of many x-ray machines, I was rather surprised to see a claim of any neutrons at all. Surely if neutrons were produced under these conditions, they would show up in x-ray machines, and would be acknowledged as a common occurrence? Or do these neutrons only show up when hydrogen is present, concurrently with a strong magnetic field? ...or perhaps Horvath is confusing little Hydrinos with neutrons? >Robin > >> The creation of this high flux of photons is >> associated with release of large numbers of neutrons within the >> tungsten target.... > >... what is a "large numbers of neutrons"? Rather subjective, no? > >At the same voltage, a Farnsworth Fusor can produce about a >hundred thousand neutrons per second. That sounds "large", but it >is at least five orders of magnitude below breakeven. > >Given that the Fusor results are rock solid, going back thirty >years, those numbers can be used as an objective basis for >determining "how large is large" ... so the statement could be >true, if the acutal numbers are in the same range as the Fusor, >yet still be not even close to breakeven - if that was an intended >implication. Half-full or half-empty? > >Jones > Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 30 17:22:19 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6V0LwrU000859; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 17:21:59 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6V0LtZF000818; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 17:21:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 17:21:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=m0j6y0NAh6yI9FcgezSOHO7Y67B4Anyo+wWZy+iLAZxGuFsIaFJOvTKcdHcPxlSX; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006713102139592 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]: Re: Colloidal Carbon Nanoparticles in Waterfuel/Joe Cell Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 18:21:39 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940bdf5a999203ef59ba7085b389a52d861350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.81 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69924 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones wrote. > > Fred, > > Did you know that when PTFE coated stir bars are exposed to a > solution of solvated electrons in liquid ammonia - the > "impervious" surface of the stir bar is converted to carbon? Not too surprising, Jones. Ethylene H2C=CH2 with 4 Fluorine atoms attached a cross-linked polymer could form HF from the liquid NH3. > > One wonders if H2O (with solvated electrons therein) can perform > similar magic, but over an extended time frame, especially if some > NaCl has been added to increase conductivity ? > You're asking me who can't remember that the chemical formula for Formaldehyde is CH2O, which I made in large quantities along with H2O back in the 70s while attempting to controllably oxidize 16 LBs of CH4 off the gas pipe to 32 LBs of CH3OH Methanol.at about 10 cents/gallon to mix with gasoline that was selling for more than $1.25 per gallon.. :-) Fred > > Jones > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Jul 30 20:37:18 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6V3auBC013569; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 20:36:56 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6V3aqYm013534; Sun, 30 Jul 2006 20:36:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 20:36:52 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Water Cell Ready Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 13:36:41 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <8C8819DA7D81DAE-E58-EF66 mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> <002601c6b3da$19e68ce0$0600a8c0@nixlaptop> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta03ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.66.24] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Mon, 31 Jul 2006 03:36:41 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6V3afu6013449 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69925 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Terry Blanton's message of Sun, 30 Jul 2006 10:27:14 -0400: Hi Terry, [snip] >Hopefully, you will now find this image more convincing: > >http://www.geocities.com/terry1094/JC2.JPG You're supposed to suspend them with nylon fishing line so that it doesn't show up on the photo. :) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 31 01:40:26 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6V8e72u029332; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 01:40:11 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6V8W9X3023981; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 01:32:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 01:32:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]: Re: Aqueous-Electrolytic CO2 Catalyzed H2 Producrtion From: patrick vbpl.fsnet.co.uk Reply-to: patrick vbpl.fsnet.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Sender-IP-Address: 194.105.164.99 X-Mailer: Nameko 0.10.0 Message-Id: Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 09:31:57 +0100 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69926 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Fred wrote: > > US 5,928,806 suggests to me that a pipe inside a pipe > insulated > with an insulating reducing bushing (inside a coupling at > the top) > filled with water and pressurized with CO2 should produce a > variety of > combustible organics Hi Fred, I didn't actively pursue this at the time as (1) I had no ready source of CO2 (thought about tests using a 'soda stream', though!) and (2) I was concerned about efficiencies. The latter was really why I posed the question to the Y! VS group - as far as I remember, Viktor's process involved very similar chemistry (under pressure), but no electrical power (although some human power was required for 'stirring' with a dual metal paddle). Sadly, the VS group was happier talking about about 'vortex' water filter jugs etc. than this sort of thing... I'll try to fish out the original information - it would be interesting to see your take on the VS (unpowered) chemistry. Cheers, Patrick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 31 02:20:10 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6V9Jtiq017061; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 02:19:56 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6V9Jqst017015; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 02:19:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 02:19:51 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <005201c6b482$74a8b740$0600a8c0 nixlaptop> From: "Nick Palmer" To: References: <8C8819DA7D81DAE-E58-EF66 mblkn-m15.sysops.aol.com> <002601c6b3da$19e68ce0$0600a8c0@nixlaptop> Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 10:19:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69928 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: smoking guns Status: O X-Status: <> LOL. Looks like you caught the last moments of part of the space station... From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 31 02:30:40 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6V9U3VE023350; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 02:30:29 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6V9F23Y014373; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 02:15:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 02:15:02 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=qVQTWmtNGRJjBQ4DKKY2AwZ7D+qCoMpJ4qN7DyrtR/Gmfvgc4N3GmPMfbAW+SaMb; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006713191434739 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: RE: [Vo]: Re: Aqueous-Electrolytic CO2 Catalyzed H2 Producrtion Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 03:14:34 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9401b92bdecfdbe5da5444363c8e8c41215350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.75.146 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69927 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII This sounds more and more like a carbon anode ( plate) Joe Cell. :-) Fred US 5,677,075 Fujita October 14, 1997 http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.htm "In actual, when water is used as an electrolyte solution to electrolytically oxidize carbon, the pH value of the electrolyte solution shifts to 2 to 3 on the side of acidity. Taking the above fact into consideration, it seems that the original form of acid is carboxylic acid. In case of electrolytic oxidation of carbon, when an electrode made of the carbon material is applied with direct current voltage in water and the currents are gradually intensified, carbon powder is deposited like mist around the positive electrode when the current value exceeds a certain value (the voltage value is variable depending on a distance between the electrodes). The deposited powder suspends in the form of colloid in the water. When electrodes are soaked in the carbon suspension and applied with direct current voltage, the deposited carbon powder is adsorbed on a positive electrode. This electrolytically deposited carbon powder is referred to as electrolytic oxidized carbon powder in the present invention. The above treatment is referred to as treatment of electrolytic oxidation." "In the embodiment of the present invention, the current value at which the start of dispersion of carbon powder by the electrolysis is visually realized, is called a threshold current value for convenience. (Strictly speaking, it is supposed that the deposition occurs at a smaller current value in such a manner that it cannot be perceived.) The threshold current value varies depending on an area of the carbon positive electrode, a distance between the positive and negative electrodes, the existence of electrolyte or the amount of the electrolyte. In the case where city water is used as the electrolyte solution, when a distance between the positive and negative electrodes is 3 mm or less and an area of the positive electrode is 200 cm.sup.2, the threshold current value is 3 to 5 ampere. " "Water is preferable as the electrolyte solution for electrolytic oxidization. Water may be used alone, but if necessary, an acidic component of an electrolyte solution in a battery or another electrolyte such as NACl, LiCl or the like may be added into the water. In case of using pure water as the electrolyte solution, the acidic component of the electrolyte solution or another electrolyte as described above, may be added in to give it conductivity. Water such as city water in which a very small amount of mineral component exists, ensures an appropriate degree of conductivity without adding any substances, so that a desirable carbon powder dispersion liquid can be obtained. The carbon suspension in which electrolytic oxidized powder is dispersed in electrolyte solution is colloidal solution, and is synthesized by electrochemical oxidation. The carbon colloid in the solution acts as a dopant for cathodes in lead-acid batteries. (According to the terminology of electrochemistry, cathodes and anodes are defined as positive and negative electrodes for battery systems, respectively.) The activation of carbon colloid for cathodes results in (1) revival of degraded batteries, (2) large charge-currents without any extraordinary increase in temperature, (3) increase in discharge currents and (4) increase in the life time of batteries. In order to describe the details of this invention, the preparation of the carbon colloidal solution is presented below. " ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

This sounds more and more like a carbon anode ( plate) Joe Cell.  :-)
 
Fred
 
US  5,677,075     Fujita October 14, 1997
 
 
"In actual, when water is used as an electrolyte solution to electrolytically oxidize carbon, the pH value of the electrolyte solution shifts to 2 to 3 on the side of acidity. Taking the above fact into consideration, it seems that the original form of acid is carboxylic acid. In case of electrolytic oxidation of carbon, when an electrode made of the carbon material is applied with direct current voltage in water and the currents are gradually intensified, carbon powder is deposited like mist around the positive electrode when the current value exceeds a certain value (the voltage value is variable depending on a distance between the electrodes). The deposited powder suspends in the form of colloid in the water. When electrodes are soaked in the carbon suspension and applied with direct current voltage, the deposited carbon powder is adsorbed on a positive electrode. This electrolytically deposited carbon powder is referred to as electrolytic oxidized carbon powder in the present invention. The above treatment is referred to as treatment of electrolytic oxidation."

"In the embodiment of the present invention, the current value at which the start of dispersion of carbon powder by the electrolysis is visually realized, is called a threshold current value for convenience. (Strictly speaking, it is supposed that the deposition occurs at a smaller current value in such a manner that it cannot be perceived.) The threshold current value varies depending on an area of the carbon positive electrode, a distance between the positive and negative electrodes, the existence of electrolyte or the amount of the electrolyte. In the case where city water is used as the electrolyte solution, when a distance between the positive and negative electrodes is 3 mm or less and an area of the positive electrode is 200 cm.sup.2, the threshold current value is 3 to 5 ampere. "

"Water is preferable as the electrolyte solution for electrolytic oxidization. Water may be used alone, but if necessary, an acidic compo! nent of an electrolyte solution in a battery or another electrolyte such as NACl, LiCl or the like may be added into the water. In case of using pure water as the electrolyte solution, the acidic component of the electrolyte solution or another electrolyte as described above, may be added in to give it conductivity. Water such as city water in which a very small amount of mineral component exists, ensures an appropriate degree of conductivity without adding any substances, so that a desirable carbon powder dispersion liquid can be obtained. The carbon suspension in which electrolytic oxidized powder is dispersed in electrolyte solution is colloidal solution, and is synthesized by electrochemical oxidation. The carbon colloid in the solution acts as a dopant for cathodes in lead-acid batteries. (According to the terminology of electrochemistry, cathodes and anodes are defined as positive and negative electrodes for battery systems, respectively.) The activation of carbon colloid for cathodes results in (1) revival of degraded batteries, (2) large charge-currents without any extraordinary increase in temperature, (3) increase in discharge currents and (4) increase in the life time of batteries. In order to describe the details of this invention, the preparation of the carbon colloidal solution is presented below. "

 
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 31 02:36:07 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6V9ZeKM028026; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 02:35:41 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6V9Zcq7027991; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 02:35:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 02:35:38 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=UMs8KH2Mc0oV5cZOo6fbX7k1yA7Sijzaob+rG2XMg67W6vAUY4wR6HkHPNjMm91M; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006713193512449 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: RE: [Vo]: Re: Aqueous-Electrolytic CO2 Catalyzed H2 Production Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 03:35:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da94031501a00b3e424602cd01970cd80de86350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.216 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69929 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > From: > To: > Date: 7/31/2006 2:41:44 AM > Subject: RE: [Vo]: Re: Aqueous-Electrolytic CO2 Catalyzed H2 Production > > > > Fred wrote: > > > > US 5,928,806 suggests to me that a pipe inside a pipe > > insulated > > with an insulating reducing bushing (inside a coupling at > > the top) > > filled with water and pressurized with CO2 should produce a > > variety of > > combustible organics > > Hi Fred, > > I didn't actively pursue this at the time as (1) I had no ready source of CO2 (thought about tests using a 'soda stream', though!) and (2) I was concerned about efficiencies. The latter was really why I posed the question to the Y! VS group - as far as I remember, Viktor's process involved very similar chemistry (under pressure), but no electrical power (although some human power was required for 'stirring' with a dual metal paddle). Sadly, the VS group was happier talking about about 'vortex' water filter jugs etc. than this sort of thing... > Attention Deficit Disorder is a common malady on vortex too, Patrick. :-) Reacting wood (or other) biomass ashes and apple cider vinegar makes for an environmentally friendly high pressure CO2 source, Patrick. Got to keep Nick Palmer calmer. :-) > > I'll try to fish out the original information - it would be interesting to see your take on the VS (unpowered) chemistry. > Please do. Thanks. Fred > > Cheers, > Patrick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 31 05:32:05 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6VCViaB020647; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 05:31:45 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6VCVgDB020622; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 05:31:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 05:31:42 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=b6BbwHiDrcYQstLJ9I+ObvPVNk90+VVmmUnVktK3mJ/mDTngaZXBfRtAKy6IEADz; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220067131123117801 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Cc: "patrick" Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 06:31:17 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9406b7986e4411aa87f8d4afbff0912085a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.5 Resent-Message-ID: <8LGoxB.A.GCF.ugfzEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69930 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hybrid "Corn on the Cob" in an on-board electrolyzer should exothermally produce H2 with an ~200 watt boost from the alternator, but , shelled corn is preferred: Starch and Cellulose plus water: C6H10O5 + 6 H2O ----> 6 CO2 + 12 H2. Not exactly the "Mr. Fusion" on a souped up DeLorean from the 1985 movie, "Back To The Future". Some interesting facts about the movie. :-) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088763/trivia Terry could probably cob this up (so to speak) for his experiment. Fred 4,389,288 (1983) "The electrochemical gasification reaction of carbonaceous materials by anodic oxidation in an aqueous acidic electrolyte to produce oxides of carbon at the anode and hydrogen at the cathode of an electrolysis cell is catalyzed by the use of an iron catalyst." "As acknowledged in U.S. Pat. No. 4,226,683, the principal problem in the past use of this principle for commercial production of hydrogen, was the slow rate of the electrochemical reaction of coal or carbon and water. It has now been found that iron, when added to an aqueous acidic electrolyte containing the carbonaceous material, and preferably iron in the +3 valence state, catalyzes the rate of reaction and assists in obtaining more complete oxidation for the electrochemical oxidation of the carbonaceous material at the anode thus making the commercial production of hydrogen or method of electrowinning commercially feasible." "The carbonaceous materials suitable for use in accordance with the present invention include a wide variety of material such as bituminous coal, chars made from coal, lignite, peat, active carbons, coke, carbon blacks, graphite; wood or other lignocellulosic materials including forest products, such as wood waste, wood chips, sawdust, wood dust, bark, shavings, wood pellets; including various biomass materials as land or marine vegetation or its waste after other processing, including grasses, various cuttings, crops and crop wastes, coffee grounds, leaves, straw, pits, hulls, shells, stems, husks, cobs and waste materials including animal manure; sewage sludge resulting from municipal treatment plants, and plastics or the scraps or wastes formed in the production of plastic such as polyethylene, cellulose acetate and the like. Thus, it is seen that substantially any fuel or waste material whether a liquid, such as oil, a gas, such as methane or other ! ! hydrocarbon or waste material containing carbon, with the exception of CO.sub.2, provides a suitable source of carbonaceous material for use according to this invention." "The particular apparatus used to carry out the electrolytic oxidation of carbonaceous materials is not critical. Substantially, the same apparatus and techniques that are utilized in the electrolytic decomposition of water as well as those described in U.S. Pat. Nos. 4,268,363, 4,226,683 and 4,233,132 which references are incorporated herein by reference, can be used with the method of this invention. Any selection of appropriate changes in use of materials and/or technique is well within the skill of those versed in the art to which this invention applies." ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

 
Hybrid "Corn on the Cob" in an on-board electrolyzer should exothermally
produce H2 with an ~200 watt boost from the alternator, but , shelled corn is preferred:
 
Starch and Cellulose plus water: C6H10O5 + 6 H2O ---->  6 CO2 + 12 H2.
 
Not exactly the "Mr. Fusion" on a souped up DeLorean from the
1985 movie, "Back To The Future". 
 
Some interesting facts about the movie. :-)
 
 
Terry could probably cob this up (so to speak) for his experiment. 
 
Fred
 
 
4,389,288         (1983)
 
"The electrochemical gasification reaction of carbonaceous materials by anodic oxidation in an aqueous acidic electrolyte to produce oxides of carbon at the anode and hydrogen at the cathode of an electrolysis cell is catalyzed by the use of an iron catalyst."
 
"As acknowledged in U.S. Pat. No. 4,226,683, the principal problem in the past use of this principle for commercial production of hydrogen, was the slow rate of the electrochemical reaction of coal or carbon and water. It has now been found that iron, when added to an aqueous acidic electrolyte containing the carbonaceous material, and preferably iron in the +3 valence state, catalyzes the rate of reaction and assists in obtaining more complete oxidation for the electrochemical oxidation of the carbonaceous material at the anode thus making the commercial production of hydrogen or method of electrowinning commercially feasible."
 
"The carbonaceous materials suitable for use in accordance with the present invention include a wide variety of material such as bituminous coal, chars made from coal, lignite, peat, active carbons, coke, carbon blacks, graphite; wood or other lignocellulosic materials including forest products, such as wood waste, wood chips, sawdust, wood dust, bark, shavings, wood pellets; including various biomass materials as land or marine vegetation or its waste after other processing, including grasses, various cuttings, crops and crop wastes, coffee grounds, leaves, straw, pits, hulls, shells, stems, husks, cobs and waste materials including animal manure; sewage sludge resulting from municipal treatment plants, and plastics or the scraps or wastes formed in the production of plastic such as polyethylene, cellulose acetate and the like. Thus, it is seen that substantially any fuel or waste material whether a liquid, such as oil, a gas, such as methane or other ! ! hydrocarbon or waste material containing carbon, with the exception of CO.sub.2, provides a suitable source of carbonaceous material for use according to this invention."

"The particular apparatus used to carry out the electrolytic oxidation of carbonaceous materials is not critical. Substantially, the same apparatus and techniques that are utilized in the electrolytic decomposition of water as well as those described in U.S. Pat. Nos. 4,268,363, 4,226,683 and 4,233,132 which references are incorporated herein by reference, can be used with the method of this invention. Any selection of appropriate changes in use of materials and/or technique is well within the skill of those versed in the art to which this invention applies."
 
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 31 06:41:14 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6VDemMw026222; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 06:40:49 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6VDekvN026200; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 06:40:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 06:40:46 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=bqm/DFjo1jizMG940PIImQ/2SaEt1ZitcmKFYZQa2bd8zrIDya1pO4zrZ48vpz3W3YromuhV/kypMNgr8vgVUlz5p8j2+iPq9n1g2J03qi/r5CaH9lo8ycNZ1BL5aRFNWIglXRo88hfCiMpNLvEBAI7QoyQlb5nSyw332ohW7Q8= Message-ID: Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 09:40:43 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Joe Cell Running In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <8C88216A7E1D69D-174-F774 mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69931 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The current had dropped slightly this morning to 0.85 mA. I didn't have time to microwave it. I did take a couple of drops and placed them on my finger. It seems to have a thicker consistency and feels a bit like Astroglide lubricant. :-) Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 31 06:50:46 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6VDoL70032029; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 06:50:22 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6VDoHwi031986; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 06:50:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 06:50:17 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=K1VgKLLk6KJig35RC6WvO4fCBbRLP//z1L/V+wOgByO85/97U4fp5lweJAOVrLoTRddc0iQnhjlx3HIjnd04arxltxV0fziSh9vtg3/QM4Fm0sPitkqWXm2PRP9/VrTa8wTRT74Cs7D/rjTf0Yhzc1Urqp7G5/P1bf1z01qU3qU= Message-ID: Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 01:49:41 +1200 From: "John Berry" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Joe Cell Running In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_55777_19233285.1154353781857" References: <8C88216A7E1D69D-174-F774 mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com> Resent-Message-ID: <9uJ4uD.A.fzH.XqgzEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69932 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_Part_55777_19233285.1154353781857 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Or ormus oil? (they claim that m-state elements in water give it qualities similar to what you describe) On 8/1/06, Terry Blanton wrote: > > The current had dropped slightly this morning to 0.85 mA. I didn't > have time to microwave it. I did take a couple of drops and placed > them on my finger. It seems to have a thicker consistency and feels a > bit like Astroglide lubricant. :-) > > Terry > > ------=_Part_55777_19233285.1154353781857 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Or ormus oil? (they claim that m-state elements in water give it qualities similar to what you describe)

On 8/1/06, Terry Blanton < hohlraum gmail.com> wrote:
The current had dropped slightly this morning to 0.85 mA.  I didn't
have time to microwave it.  I did take a couple of drops and placed
them on my finger.  It seems to have a thicker consistency and feels a
bit like Astroglide lubricant.  :-)

Terry


------=_Part_55777_19233285.1154353781857-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 31 08:02:11 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6VF1xJL010481; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 08:02:00 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6VF1tK9010428; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 08:01:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 08:01:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=YVQfjET5kMFV9fN3YbxQKaa2MSnchln6reBqOqO9Ix22YVEOHK1OzsYAzijyksh3; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-22006713115137246 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "vortex-l" Subject: RE: [Vo]: Re: Burning Garbage to Hydrogen Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 09:01:37 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940eada7e1314baac1c4d38b2b3554c9dae350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.78.234 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69933 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII US 4,608,137 (1986) (Chevron Research Co.) "This invention relates to a continuous process for producing hydrogen at the cathode of an electrolytic cell. More particularly, the invention is concerned with a continuous cyclic technique wherein (a) Fe.sup.+2 ion is oxidized to Fe.sup.+3 in an aqueous acidic electrolyte at the anode of an electrolytic cell with the corresponding production of hydrogen at the cathode, and (b) the reduction of Fe.sup.+3 generated at the anode with a solid carbonaceous reductant material to Fe.sup.+2 for subsequent reuse in the process." Takes things a step further than 4,389,288 it allows for a heated external reactor with circulation of the Fe++/Fe+++ catalyst through the organics, then back to the electrolysis cell where the hydrogen is given off at the cathode. ICE exhaust gas heat can be used for the organics bed. Fred 4,389,288 (1983) (Chevron Research Co.) "The electrochemical gasification reaction of carbonaceous materials by anodic oxidation in an aqueous acidic electrolyte to produce oxides of carbon at the anode and hydrogen at the cathode of an electrolysis cell is catalyzed by the use of an iron catalyst." "As acknowledged in U.S. Pat. No. 4,226,683, the principal problem in the past use of this principle for commercial production of hydrogen, was the slow rate of the electrochemical reaction of coal or carbon and water. It has now been found that iron, when added to an aqueous acidic electrolyte containing the carbonaceous material, and preferably iron in the +3 valence state, catalyzes the rate of reaction and assists in obtaining more complete oxidation for the electrochemical oxidation of the carbonaceous material at the anode thus making the commercial production of hydrogen or method of electrowinning commercially feasible." "The carbonaceous materials suitable for use in accordance with the present invention include a wide variety of material such as bituminous coal, chars made from coal, lignite, peat, active carbons, coke, carbon blacks, graphite; wood or other lignocellulosic materials including forest products, such as wood waste, wood chips, sawdust, wood dust, bark, shavings, wood pellets; including various biomass materials as land or marine vegetation or its waste after other processing, including grasses, various cuttings, crops and crop wastes, coffee grounds, leaves, straw, pits, hulls, shells, stems, husks, cobs and waste materials including animal manure; sewage sludge resulting from municipal treatment plants, and plastics or the scraps or wastes formed in the production of plastic such as polyethylene, cellulose acetate and the like. Thus, it is seen that substantially any fuel or waste material whether a liquid, such as oil, a gas, such as ! methane or other ! ! hydrocarbon or waste material containing carbon, with the exception of CO.sub.2, provides a suitable source of carbonaceous material for use according to this invention." "The particular apparatus used to carry out the electrolytic oxidation of carbonaceous materials is not critical. Substantially, the same apparatus and techniques that are utilized in the electrolytic decomposition of water as well as those described in U.S. Pat. Nos. 4,268,363, 4,226,683 and 4,233,132 which references are incorporated herein by reference, can be used with the method of this invention. Any selection of appropriate changes in use of materials and/or technique is well within the skill of those versed in the art to which this invention applies." ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
US 4,608,137    (1986)  (Chevron Research Co.) 
 
"This invention relates to a continuous process for producing hydrogen at the cathode of an electrolytic cell. More particularly, the invention is concerned with a continuous cyclic technique wherein (a) Fe.sup.+2 ion is oxidized to Fe.sup.+3 in an aqueous acidic electrolyte at the anode of an electrolytic cell with the corresponding production of hydrogen at the cathode, and (b) the reduction of Fe.sup.+3 generated at the anode with a solid carbonaceous reductant material to Fe.sup.+2 for subsequent reuse in the process."
 
Takes things a step further than 4,389,288  it allows
for a heated external reactor with circulation of the Fe++/Fe+++ catalyst
through the organics, then back to the electrolysis cell where the hydrogen
is given off at the cathode.
ICE exhaust gas heat can be used for the organics bed.
 
Fred
4,389,288         (1983) (Chevron Research Co.)
 
"The electrochemical gasification reaction of carbonaceous materials by anodic oxidation in an aqueous acidic electrolyte to produce oxides of carbon at the anode and hydrogen at the cathode of an electrolysis cell is catalyzed by the use of an iron catalyst."
 
"As acknowledged in U.S. Pat. No. 4,226,683, the principal problem in the past use of this principle for commercial production of hydrogen, was the slow rate of the electrochemical reaction of coal or carbon and water. It has now been found that iron, when added to an aqueous acidic electrolyte containing the carbonaceous material, and preferably iron in the +3 valence state, catalyzes the rate of reaction and assists in obtaining more complete oxidation for the electrochemical oxidation of the carbonaceous material at the anode thus making the commercial production of hydrogen or method of electrowinning commercially feasible."
 
"The carbonaceous materials suitable for use in accordance with the present invention include a wide variety of material such as bituminous coal, chars made from coal, lignite, peat, active carbons, coke, carbon blacks, graphite; wood or other lignocellulosic materials including forest products, such as wood waste, wood chips, sawdust, wood dust, bark, shavings, wood pellets; including various biomass materials as land or marine vegetation or its waste after other processing, including grasses, various cuttings, crops and crop wastes, coffee grounds, leaves, straw, pits, hulls, shells, stems, husks, cobs and waste materials including animal manure; sewage sludge resulting from municipal treatment plants, and plastics or the scraps or wastes formed in the production of plastic such as polyethylene, cellulose acetate and the like. Thus, it is seen that substantially any fuel or waste material whether a liquid, such as oil, a gas, such as ! methane or other ! ! hydrocarbon or waste material containing carbon, with the exception of CO.sub.2, provides a suitable source of carbonaceous material for use according to this invention."

"The particular apparatus used to carry out the electrolytic oxidation of carbonaceous materials is not critical. Substantially, the same apparatus and techniques that are utilized in the electrolytic decomposition of water as well as those described in U.S. Pat. Nos. 4,268,363, 4,226,683 and 4,233,132 which references are incorporated herein by reference, can be used with the method of this invention. Any selection of appropriate changes in use of materials and/or technique is well within the skill of those versed in the art to which this invention applies."
 
 
 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 31 08:04:53 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6VF4htY012530; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 08:04:44 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6VF4U4Z012305; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 08:04:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 08:04:29 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <001801c6b4b2$9958f480$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <8C88216A7E1D69D-174-F774 mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com> Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 08:04:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: <7Dt5MD.A.k_C.7vhzEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69934 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Joe Cell Running Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: John Berry Or ormus oil? (they claim that m-state elements in water give it qualities similar to what you describe) Ha ! Now you've done it! Someone in the JC practitioner's community - which is tilted to about 1/3 science and 2/3 magic anyway ...... will surely pick up on the ormus <==> orgone connection! Jones ... not that there's anything wrong with that ... -Seinfeld's obligatory PC correction to previous utterance From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 31 08:11:40 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6VFBPWH016562; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 08:11:26 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6VFBMZv016518; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 08:11:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 08:11:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=aIAF8rEPrKqhMvDk1Da80if2BTndQGN2iCFzN5neIMy2DWM6Q9AjuJ3SOx4zdP02vs1OdhbpA+rtoOTp3YOfJTZmVQmbcsn512K7tCXs3sZmhHyDBw5Ce/o3JRBcZ1+bUAD9Hy0QBqMuBTIvJz1nypDsQWBJlv+O2ZfRidV3Hvo= Message-ID: Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 11:11:18 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Joe Cell Running In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <8C88216A7E1D69D-174-F774 mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69935 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 7/31/06, John Berry wrote: > Or ormus oil? (they claim that m-state elements in water give it qualities > similar to what you describe) I suppose. Or PTFE leaching off the baking pan. :-) Do you have a reference on the monatomic oil? Seems like I once read something about it being manna from heaven. What element could be in the ormus state? Hydrogen? Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 31 08:30:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6VFU5Po027587; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 08:30:05 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6VFODcC024024; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 08:24:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 08:24:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <003a01c6b4b5$5be78e60$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <8C88216A7E1D69D-174-F774 mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com> Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 08:24:04 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69936 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Joe Cell Running Status: O X-Status: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Blanton" > What element could be in the ormus state? Hydrogen? Well, that would be hydronium - in the sense of an extra proton attached to water, which is certainly dersireable for waterfuel. But - as to whatever is being leached into the solution to give an oily "feel"- consider this: ... isn't "ormus" another name for any colloid which does surprising things? Colloid chemistry is miraculous in itself, no? ... somewhat in the same semantic way that "orgone": is another name for any short-lived or metastable water-based compound - possibly containing either the Mills' hydrinohydride... or some other form of stable-charged ion... Jones From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 31 08:41:35 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6VFfDen000934; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 08:41:13 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6VFfCGn000917; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 08:41:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 08:41:12 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=jQ3Gek9NVA71N8mkLZzBLFUKEznXc4io4z9UaupK/eoYInryu/ZFLjymYKnXRtw4; h=Received:Message-ID:X-Priority:Reply-To:X-Mailer:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Message-ID: <410-220067131154056253 earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: fjsparber earthlink.net X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2005.2.15.0 (Windows) From: "Frederick Sparber" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]: Re: Joe Cell Running Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 09:40:56 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 0b1c9d71006e06a171639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da940bb7767d04ee4df5e69d25bd023a3a96e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.240.117.233 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69937 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If my memory serves, the stainless contains substantial carbon that can come off the anode plates as a "greasy" colloid. Fred Jones Beene wrote. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Terry Blanton" > > > What element could be in the ormus state? Hydrogen? > > Well, that would be hydronium - in the sense of an extra proton > attached to water, which is certainly dersireable for waterfuel. > But - as to whatever is being leached into the solution to give an > oily "feel"- consider this: > > ... isn't "ormus" another name for any colloid which does > surprising things? > > Colloid chemistry is miraculous in itself, no? > > ... somewhat in the same semantic way that "orgone": is another > name for any short-lived or metastable water-based compound - > possibly containing either the Mills' hydrinohydride... or some > other form of stable-charged ion... > > Jones > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 31 09:36:41 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6VGaNVP032366; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 09:36:24 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6VGaMiE032346; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 09:36:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 09:36:22 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=r8ChR/ag7E0YHJ0JRRjGRIxYnLuY+hq+gVCM8299Exu/2ZVS+QcbXz9qZNo/n+3lQSnA+jqGMeLU2Sw48bZUTo4edLo12DlTd6dlk/vo0c0R2enr4c7WxmuXqSfLZKWIAslZongb7/Gep9t/HSWVOp+0OEx46q38VFJYfMf6pIo= Message-ID: Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 12:36:18 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Joe Cell Running In-Reply-To: <003a01c6b4b5$5be78e60$6401a8c0 NuDell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <8C88216A7E1D69D-174-F774 mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com> <003a01c6b4b5$5be78e60$6401a8c0 NuDell> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69938 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 7/31/06, Jones Beene wrote: > Well, that would be hydronium - in the sense of an extra proton > attached to water, which is certainly dersireable for waterfuel. > But - as to whatever is being leached into the solution to give an > oily "feel"- consider this: > > ... isn't "ormus" another name for any colloid which does > surprising things? > > Colloid chemistry is miraculous in itself, no? > > ... somewhat in the same semantic way that "orgone": is another > name for any short-lived or metastable water-based compound - > possibly containing either the Mills' hydrinohydride... or some > other form of stable-charged ion... Hmmm. . . My wife wants to know what would happen if I drink it. I told her "Wishful thinking." ;-) Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 31 09:39:13 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6VGcsTu001263; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 09:38:55 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6VGcp69001227; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 09:38:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 09:38:50 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=Q7JKhpYe39nkCXHOwDX2FVwBJ/DLULDBw1ri2fFWuDc9BF3CTj3SrKZRxoFW3GojtNKGcUTALAIF1WkzIEeOkz/kbaB+jowgzuklmyHccQyqB2E/wOA9stOBRpekevd0KDViSHtDsocZuTs31qT/Ck4DYpCTPiO2Cisk5HQz5Gw= Message-ID: Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 12:38:47 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <4b84zB.A.7S.aIjzEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69939 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Joe Cell Running Status: O X-Status: On 7/31/06, Frederick Sparber wrote: > If my memory serves, the stainless contains substantial > carbon that can come off the anode plates as a "greasy" colloid. Yes, I can just perceive a thin scum layer floating on the surface. Then again, it's in the same room as the litterbox. Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 31 13:00:46 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6VK03t7013154; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 13:00:15 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6VJocwH005895; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 12:50:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 12:50:38 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]: Re: Aqueous-Electrolytic CO2 Catalyzed H2 Production From: patrick vbpl.fsnet.co.uk Reply-to: patrick vbpl.fsnet.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Sender-IP-Address: 195.92.67.72 X-Mailer: Nameko 0.10.0 Message-Id: Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 20:50:22 +0100 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69940 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > I'll try to fish out the original information - it would be interesting > to see your take on the VS (unpowered) chemistry. > > > Please do. Thanks. Fred, I've scanned in the four relevant pages from Coats' "The Energy Evolution" (ISBN 1858600618). You can find them here: http://www.vbpl.fsnet.co.uk/vo/coats I suspect that it's too long to be considered as 'fair use' in copyright terms, so I'm going to pull the page down in a couple of days. Any observations would be most welcome. Patrick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 31 14:39:43 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6VLdHOj001116; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 14:39:17 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6VLdEJW001090; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 14:39:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 14:39:14 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=St7OFE4EKWyKtCFgt7lCWzlsptrIb7XEPzb3TDueMPiONxo8homAKrVjf80tLGWgJNggoJN9TGiJYG8WiwUPh6z2bpDZZKzaebj8OSYn2UuZLGSVVILWDCIcFBrDupXKSeLB78fsB8MpNosWyCRoivkLqL5TblqKINxN0guILh0= Message-ID: Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 17:39:12 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Joe Cell Running In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <8C88216A7E1D69D-174-F774 mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com> Resent-Message-ID: <1yM40D.A.-Q.BinzEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69941 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 7/31/06, Terry Blanton wrote: > The current had dropped slightly this morning to 0.85 mA. I didn't > have time to microwave it. I did take a couple of drops and placed > them on my finger. It seems to have a thicker consistency and feels a > bit like Astroglide lubricant. :-) The current is back up to 1.1 mA. Still many bubbles forming and rising from the anode and the wall of the pan opposite the anode. No bubble formation any where near the cathode. Odd. I can send an image if anyone has an idea on this. No explosive boiling. Acts just like the control. I've tried it both inside my pyrex safety chamber (I made for making balled lightning long ago) and on blotter paper. Jones, how did you microwave your charged water? Tastes okay, too. Although I seem to be growing hair in all the wrong places. :-) -Mr. Hyde From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 31 15:03:37 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6VM3FkQ013728; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 15:03:16 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6VM3Em9013701; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 15:03:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 15:03:14 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Joe Cell Running Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 08:03:07 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 3.3/32.846 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at omta02ps.mx.bigpond.com from [147.10.66.24] using ID rvanspaa bigpond.net.au at Mon, 31 Jul 2006 22:03:07 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ultra5.eskimo.com id k6VM39hT013632 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69942 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Terry Blanton's message of Mon, 31 Jul 2006 12:38:47 -0400: Hi Terry, You might also try extracting a small sample of the water, and testing the pH. A high pH solution will tend to dissolve the protein in the skin of your fingers which makes it feel slippery or "greasy", perhaps "soapy". >On 7/31/06, Frederick Sparber wrote: >> If my memory serves, the stainless contains substantial >> carbon that can come off the anode plates as a "greasy" colloid. > >Yes, I can just perceive a thin scum layer floating on the surface. > >Then again, it's in the same room as the litterbox. > >Terry Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 31 15:07:29 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6VM73pv015973; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 15:07:04 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6VM72pX015958; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 15:07:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 15:07:02 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f X-IronPort-AV: i="4.07,199,1151899200"; d="scan'208"; a="1462807478:sNHT31085630" Message-ID: <224083334.1154383612507.JavaMail.root fepweb07> Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 15:06:52 -0700 From: OrionWorks To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Joe Cell Running MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Sensitivity: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <4OLPJB.A.S5D.G8nzEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69943 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Jones, This is probably a dumb and very provincial question to ask, but how do you know that the "Astro Glide" consistency of the treated water isn't due primarily from precipitation or leaching of elements (metals) such as from the anode and/or cathode. The process you both have described sort of reminds me of electroplating, without a surface for the precipitates to precipitate on. The skeptic within me wonders if the "dissolved" elements are simply building up in the water which, in turn, is causing the buildup of the oily consistency After all, you have been cooking the water for quite some time, haven't you? I apologize up front if this question has already been answered. BTW: Astro Glide sure beats Wesson Oil any day of the week. ;-) Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.Zazzle.com/orionworks From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 31 15:39:50 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6VMdUVv001578; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 15:39:31 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6VMdNd1001498; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 15:39:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 15:39:23 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f Message-ID: <003801c6b4f2$28e4dad0$6401a8c0 NuDell> From: "Jones Beene" To: References: <8C88216A7E1D69D-174-F774 mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com> Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 15:39:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69944 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]: Re: Joe Cell Running Status: O X-Status: Terry > No explosive boiling. Acts just like the control.... Jones, how > did you microwave your charged water? An eye-dropper of liquid in a shot glass - very simple. Water boils but the treated water flashes violently in about half the time it takes for the water to boil in the control. In looking over the differences in the setups, the primary difference is the net electrical input per unit of water - but perhaps the large speaker magnet (ceramic from a 15" woofer) on which the cell sits contributes to that; mine has much less water, no plates, some electrolyte (NaCl), more current and a noticeable vortex motion in the water caused by the interaction of electric and magnetic fields. My latest cathode is a tube formed of nickel wire woven mesh - lots of surface area but still few bubbles. Here is a video of the closest approximation I can find on google in the JC realm, but he is apparently using FAR more voltage than is optimum for precharging (getting way too much bubbling) and has placed the magnet in the water: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2713270737018717005&q=magnet+electrolysis Try gradually adding electrolyte to get the current up about ten-fold or more. I think your larger plate area is a benefit if you can get more current through the liquid. I am surprised conductivity didn't increase from the leaching - but maybe it is not a conductive colloid - maybe oil from the manufacturing process of the plates ? Since my cell draws about 30 times more current per unit of water, that is the primary difference. Jones Do you call your cell the Medusa ... or the Don_King special ?? From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 31 15:42:02 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6VMfkeT002894; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 15:41:47 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6VMfhhX002871; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 15:41:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 15:41:43 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=ENGhz4bam7Di3tQsCrRzaLEjwji2PUVxynR3qCa5tfydt3MAbEMe+KbtuZSIRpzLV5mjMa435L5eOiX5SmMeAEZnrkjKMMrsWiTIEJr+0A4ua9hrWBDCTix+Vm23y2hE879pI/IhX4sL7MW31tfthhtuGZycF1VpIKWIT4J1fvQ= Message-ID: Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 18:41:42 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Joe Cell Running In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: Resent-Message-ID: <1-Mh9B.A.ys.ncozEB ultra5.eskimo.com> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69945 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 7/31/06, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > You might also try extracting a small sample of the water, and > testing the pH. A high pH solution will tend to dissolve the > protein in the skin of your fingers which makes it feel slippery > or "greasy", perhaps "soapy". Thanks, good idea. Both the "charged water" and the control (Walmart) distilled water test with a pH below 6.8, the limit of my pool test kit. Hmmm. . . I wonder if the Walmart water comes from China? Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 31 15:59:43 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6VMx89X012644; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 15:59:08 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6VMx5Ke012601; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 15:59:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 15:59:05 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=oMZ/L0Mzf1fk9j+PP6z0vN7QSGaFTmcSVYkMWERlnE0np7+3a2cBeb8Bnn0/+guEtO3WSSCod33kqEYrqLNjS5pYp5I6aKcEz6tTJ+Atq/xoJkmVhL2yGSuQXOR+TgFO+yV3v5KBnOF82X49+6jjpbgOQQNim5ERYxi8xBgWBTU= Message-ID: Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 18:59:04 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Joe Cell Running In-Reply-To: <224083334.1154383612507.JavaMail.root fepweb07> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <224083334.1154383612507.JavaMail.root fepweb07> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69946 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 7/31/06, OrionWorks wrote: > Hi Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Jones, > > This is probably a dumb and very provincial question to ask, but how do you know that the "Astro Glide" consistency of the treated water isn't due primarily from precipitation or leaching of elements (metals) such as from the anode and/or cathode. The process you both have described sort of reminds me of electroplating, without a surface for the precipitates to precipitate on. The skeptic within me wonders if the "dissolved" elements are simply building up in the water which, in turn, is causing the buildup of the oily consistency After all, you have been cooking the water for quite some time, haven't you? I think I have been cooking as long as Jones. The answer to your question is "I don't know". Then again, if we did know, why would we be cooking water? > I apologize up front if this question has already been answered. > > BTW: Astro Glide sure beats Wesson Oil any day of the week. ;-) Yeah, but you can't beat the staying power of veggie oil, it's like the Eveready Bunny. Besides, we know veggie oil can run an engine. :-) Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Jul 31 16:09:19 2006 Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6VN8uvt018281; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 16:09:00 -0700 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.13.6/8.12.10/Submit) id k6VN8tpE018270; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 16:08:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 16:08:55 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to vortex-l-request eskimo.com using -f DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=JxJLUAZLl6AALI35WKar9/ia/0jse9kxuD1/lSeN680sygqhq0FVi12/FAbzozbyo/tUYiO71TtEE6ok1GMNiO2kSX5ARUfykpn28s7C+mDKdYkvO8cU1HuTFSNQkwi1g/tZPYtoKw1Kxv075zop2xCaszmUbbPXNyFDGKTK7yQ= Message-ID: Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 19:08:54 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Re: Joe Cell Running In-Reply-To: <003801c6b4f2$28e4dad0$6401a8c0 NuDell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <8C88216A7E1D69D-174-F774 mblkn-m13.sysops.aol.com> <003801c6b4f2$28e4dad0$6401a8c0 NuDell> Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69947 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 7/31/06, Jones Beene wrote: > > An eye-dropper of liquid in a shot glass - very simple. Water > boils but the treated water flashes violently in about half the > time it takes for the water to boil in the control. Okay. I have several shot glasses. I have been using 5 ml measured with a syringe formerly used in optical connector assembly. (I'm dating myself to the days when you used UV to cure the optical material.) How much time for each? Any idea how much is in the eye dropper? I think 5 ml is one teaspoon. > In looking over the differences in the setups, the primary > difference is the net electrical input per unit of water - but > perhaps the large speaker magnet (ceramic from a 15" woofer) on > which the cell sits contributes to that; mine has much less water, > no plates, some electrolyte (NaCl), more current and a noticeable > vortex motion in the water caused by the interaction of electric > and magnetic fields. My latest cathode is a tube formed of nickel > wire woven mesh - lots of surface area but still few bubbles. Interesting. No, I don't want to use any electrolyte in this test. I have ordered some KOH for my hydrolyzer test. I'll continue for the planned week and see what happens. > Here is a video of the closest approximation I can find on google > in the JC realm, but he is apparently using FAR more voltage than > is optimum for precharging (getting way too much bubbling) and has > placed the magnet in the water: > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2713270737018717005&q=magnet+electrolysis Kewl, did you notice the rotation direction of the bubbles was polarity sensitive? > Try gradually adding electrolyte to get the current up about > ten-fold or more. I think your larger plate area is a benefit if > you can get more current through the liquid. I am surprised > conductivity didn't increase from the leaching - but maybe it is > not a conductive colloid - maybe oil from the manufacturing > process of the plates ? Yeah, I'll try that next time. No hurry, we still have 1.035 x 10^12 bbl of oil to go. > Do you call your cell the Medusa ... or the Don_King special ?? LOL! My wife calls it the Medusa Machine. Terry